Explorez tous les épisodes du podcast The Systemic Way

In this episode of The Systemic Way, we welcome back Professor Peter Rober to discuss his book Becoming an Effective Family Therapist, focusing on the emotional life of the therapist.

Peter explores how our feelings in the therapy room can offer valuable clues about family relationships, alliances and the dynamics unfolding between people. Through clinical examples, he considers how therapists can recognise when they are being drawn towards one family member, use their emotional responses to open up new conversations, and move between self-regulation and co-regulation.

We also explore what it means to be “appropriately uncomfortable”, the role of supervision, and how gender, power and professional boundaries shape our responses to families.

A rich and thoughtful conversation about the person of the therapist, the challenges of emotional awareness, and how we can remain curious, connected and effective in our work.

In this episode of The Systemic Way, we are joined by Dr Mairi Evans, Systemic Therapist, Social Worker and Clinical Director in the NHS, to explore autism, neurodivergence and the stories that shape how people are understood within families, services and wider society.

Drawing on her doctoral research with mothers of autistic girls, Mairi explores the “aha moments” that can emerge through the diagnostic journey, and what changes once a diagnosis is given. We discuss the history and social construction of autism, the limitations of stereotypical and gendered understandings, and the difference between observed autism and the lived experience of being autistic.

Mairi introduces the idea of “Oughtism” to explore the pressures placed on autistic people and their families to behave in particular ways. Through examples from family life, she considers how dominant ideas about what families “should” look like can create additional pressures, and how systemic therapists can help families develop their own ways of being together.

The conversation also explores the relationship between autism and ADHD, the limitations of linear ideas of the spectrum, the double bind created by diagnosis and service systems, and the importance of holding both neurodivergence and the wider family context in mind.

Throughout, Mairi brings together social constructionism, CMM and systemic thinking with a strong focus on lived experience. She argues for a shift away from seeing neurodivergence as specialist territory and towards making neuroinclusion “everybody’s business”.

We also consider what this might mean for systemic family therapy, including how curiosity, neuro-informed not-knowing, hypothesising and attention to family relationships can become part of everyday practice.

A conversation about diagnosis, language, family life, service design and the possibilities for a more neuroinclusive systemic practice.

Dr Mairi Evans is a Systemic Therapist and Social Worker with experience of working in social care, child and adolescent mental health, adult mental health, neurodevelopmental services and senior management in the NHS.  Mairi has a professional doctorate in systemic practice, in which she focused on the diagnostic experience of autism for the mothers of autistic girls. Taking a social constructionist perspective and adopting the Co-ordinated Management of Meaning as a lens Mairi has explored the balance and relationship between co-constructed narratives (stories told) and lived experience (stories lived) for autistic people, their families and helping professionals. She has worked to connect theory to practice across health and social care organisations in order to promote connections, improve services and to reduce barriers to healthcare for autistic people and their families.  

As a Clinical Director in the NHS, Mairi has an interest in stories for change in wider NHS systems and the relationship between research narratives, commissioning decision makers, service providers and the individuals that seek support.

Publications:

• Oughtism and Oughtistic Narratives in the Lives of Autistic People and their Families (gvsu.edu)
• Autism and Systemic Practice – Autism and Intersectionality: Implications for Systemic and Relational Psychotherapeutic Practice and Research (systemicautism.com)
• How do Mothers of Autistic Girls Perceive and Experience the Potential Affordances and Constraints of Diagnosis for their Daughters? (Thesis, University of Bedfordshire)
• The “Aha Moment”: Exploring autism narratives as told by the mothers of autistic girls (Murmurations: Journal of Transformative Systemic Practice) 

What happens when we stop asking, “Who is right?” and start asking, “What are we making here?”

In this episode of The Systemic Way, we are joined by Abbie VanMeter from the CMM Institute and host of the wonderful podcast Stories Lived and Stories Told  for a wide-ranging and deeply engaging conversation about Coordinated Management of Meaning (CMM).

The conversation explores Abbie's personal and professional journey into Coordinated Management of Meaning (CMM), how she has come to embody the approach, and what CMM can offer systemic psychotherapy and everyday relationships.

Abbie’s journey into CMM is an unexpected one. What began with discovering CMM during the pandemic led to her creating Stories Lived and Stories Told, a podcast now in its fifth season, and to a much deeper exploration of how we create meaning with one another.

We talk about what CMM looks like beyond the theory. How does it change the way we listen, communicate and understand relationships? What happens when we begin to notice the meanings we are creating together in the moment?

The conversation takes us into some big questions about curiosity, uncertainty, power and expertise. We explore what it means for therapists to hold professional knowledge while also recognising the knowledge and expertise of the people they work with.

Abbie talks about curiosity as a “superpower” and the importance of “actually not knowing”. We consider what it means to meet people where they are, rather than assuming we need to bring them somewhere else.

We also explore the relationship between lived, told and untold stories. What might become possible when we recognise that there are stories that have not yet been heard, understood or given space?

Along the way, we talk about embodiment, improv, “yes and”, the LUUT Model, the complexity of CMM and the experience of learning a theory that becomes increasingly difficult to “unsee”.

This is not simply a conversation about learning CMM. It is a conversation about how we live it.

How we communicate.
How we make meaning.
How we relate to one another.
And ultimately, what kind of social worlds we are creating together.

This is Part One of a two-part conversation. In Part Two, Abbie turns the microphone on Julie and Sezer to explore their own journeys into systemic psychotherapy and the story behind The Systemic Way.

Link to Part two

https://substack.com/app-link/post?publication_id=2466190&post_id=215273874&utm_source=podcast-email&play_audio=true&r=3e6jkh&utm_campaign=email-play-on-substack&token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoyMDUyMTg0NDksInBvc3RfaWQiOjIxNTI3Mzg3NCwiaWF0IjoxNzg5NTMxMzMxLCJleHAiOjE3OTIxMjMzMzEsImlzcyI6InB1Yi0yNDY2MTkwIiwic3ViIjoicG9zdC1yZWFjdGlvbiJ9.l-mgXbg2Jf_S8uj4tXnySHyXnjkFoHVIiGgpGokdzTQ&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email&utm_content=play_card#play

What happens when the systems designed to help us start shaping, limiting or even defining the problems we are trying to solve?

In this episode of The Systemic Way, we are joined by Mark Phillips, a highly experienced systemic psychotherapist, mental health nurse and strategic leader who has worked across NHS, local authority and youth justice services for more than two decades. Mark is currently Strategic Health Lead for Youth Justice Services and Head of Family Therapy at Coventry and Warwickshire NHS Trust, and also works as a consultant systemic psychotherapist and supervisor. He qualified as a systemic psychotherapist at the Tavistock and Portman NHS Trust in 2005. 

Together, we explore neoliberalism and its impact on systemic practice, mental health and public services. We talk about the growing emphasis on individual responsibility, productivity, measurement and outcomes, and what can be lost when complex relational and social difficulties are reduced to individual problems.

Mark shares reflections from his work in youth justice, CAMHS and local authority services, including the tensions between behavioural interventions and more contextual, relational approaches. We explore power, privilege, oppression, organisational culture, payment-by-results, professional identity and the politics of therapy.

We also consider what it means for systemic practitioners to become agents of resistance and change: finding allies, learning to speak the language of organisations, challenging taken-for-granted assumptions and creating spaces for alternative ways of working.

Ultimately, this is a conversation about how we understand the systems we work within—and what possibilities emerge when we become willing to question them.

Chapters:

• 00:00 – Neoliberalism, Mental Health & Resistance Within The Systems We Live In
• 03:32 – Meet Mark Phillips
• 05:52 – An Accidental Journey into Systemic Psychotherapy
• 08:02 – Privilege, Marginalisation & Identity
• 20:31 – When Therapy Becomes Part of an Oppressive System
• 23:42 – Positivism, Relativism & Understanding People in Context
• 28:18 – What Is Neoliberalism?
• 34:57 – The Paradox of Payment by Results
• 36:35 – From Behavioural to Relational Practice
• 40:48 – Systemic Practice as Activism
• 42:00 – “Be With Us”: Co-Construction & Collaboration
• 43:51 – Learning to Speak the Language of the System
• 48:18 – Finding Allies Within the System
• 50:12 – Individual Responsibility & Systemic Inequality
• 51:54 – Neoliberalism & the Productivity Machine
• 58:19 – Systemic Practice as Resistance
• 1:00:49 – Taking Risks & Speaking Truth to Power
• 1:05:12 – Finding Pockets of Possibility
• 1:09:33 – Moving Beyond “This Is How We Do Things”
• 1:10:53 – Putting Systemic Theory Into Action

Who are the people, past and present, who have helped you become who you are?

In this episode of The Systemic Way, we explore Team of Life, a creative narrative practice developed from the Tree of Life approach. We speak with Mariangels Ferrer-Duch and Vicky Eames from Riverbank Psychology as we discuss how to help people reconnect with stories of strength, courage and belonging. This is a reflective conversation about narrative practice, relational identity and the power of remembering that no one's story is written alone.

Using the metaphor of a sporting team, Team of Life invites us to think about the people, relationships, communities, values, skills and experiences that have helped shape who we are and supported us through difficult times.

Who are the people who have been in your corner?
Who has passed you the ball when you needed it?
Who helped you find your way when you were unsure where to go?
And whose team are you a member of?

Together, we explore how Team of Life can create opportunities to recognise skills, celebrate relationships and reconnect people with stories of strength, contribution and belonging that can easily become overshadowed by problems.

From a systemic and narrative perspective, the episode asks what becomes possible when we move away from seeing resilience as an individual quality and instead locate it within relationships, histories, communities and collective experience.

Because none of us gets through life entirely on our own.

Sometimes, it takes a team. 

Who would be on your Team of Life?

Dr Vicky Eames is a consultant clinical psychologist with over 30 years of experience in adult and child and adolescent mental health. She offers psychological therapy in Cornwall and online with specialisms in narrative therapy, attachment and trauma focused therapy, EMDR as well as therapeutic work with neurodivergent people.

Mariangels Ferrer-Duch is a clinical psychologist and systemic family therapist with over 30 years experience. She also holds a masters in narrative therapy and community work. Mariangels offers online supervision, consultation and training, helping practitioners develop their skills in narrative therapy, 

Join us for a thought-provoking episode as we sit down with Kunsang Yang Yang , a pioneering voice in the integration of Buddhist philosophy and systemic family therapy. Drawing from years of personal spiritual practice, professional experience, and the teachings of his root guru, H.H. Yisie Vorle (as featured in the book Path Beyond Samsara), Yang Yang explores how Buddhist concepts like mindfulness, non-self, and wholesome aspirations can transform the way we understand and foster change within families and communities.

Discover how Buddhist ideas—such as the five aggregates, relational mindfulness, and the power of mantra recitation—can broaden the systemic lens, offering new pathways for healing and connection. We’ll delve into practical techniques, including the innovative narrative-mantra group model, and hear insights from clinicians who have participated in these integrative practices. Whether you’re a therapist, spiritual seeker, or simply curious about the intersection of Eastern wisdom and modern psychology, this episode offers fresh perspectives and actionable ideas for cultivating compassion, resilience, and meaningful change.

Tune in to explore the rich dialogue between Buddhism and systemic therapy, and learn how ancient wisdom is shaping the future of mental health and relational wellbeing.

As a qualified Singaporean Systemic Family Psychotherapist, Counsellor and Social Worker for over 20 years, Yang Yang has worked with children, adolescents, individual adults, couples and families in the UK and Singapore. He lived in London for 13 years before relocating back to Singapore, where he continues to offer systemic therapy as a Buddhist monk. He just completed his PhD in Buddhist studies at Thailand during this interview. 

What does it mean to truly see in therapy? Not just to recognise a problem or follow a model, but to sense the subtle movements of relationship — the flicker of meaning between people, the quiet shifts that change the course of a conversation.

In this episode, Dr. Hugh Palmer, systemic family psychotherapist, trainer and writer, invites us into the art of expanded vision. Drawing on Gregory Bateson, William Blake, and decades of systemic practice, Hugh explores Fourfold Vision as a way of perceiving that blends evidence, theory, intuition and imagination into something alive, relational and deeply human.

Together, we wander through the landscapes of therapy where a clinician becomes scientist, theorist, humanist and artist all at once — noticing patterns, welcoming uncertainty, and allowing themselves to be changed by the families they meet. Hugh shows how widening our vision can open new possibilities for connection, creativity and transformation.

For therapists, supervisors, trainees, and anyone fascinated by how people make meaning together, this conversation offers a gentle but powerful invitation: to see more, feel more, and meet the world with a fuller, more responsive imagination.

In this episode, we shine a spotlight on the Pears Family School, a pioneering Alternative Provision school in the UK that is redefining how we support children with complex emotional, behavioral, and mental health needs. Facing a national crisis in child mental health and a lack of joined-up services, the Pears Family School bridges the gap between education and mental health through a unique, systemic, and family-focused approach.

We are joined by Laura Lower and Maya Bell Kohli as we discover how the school’s founders, both experienced teachers and systemic family therapists, created a model that integrates therapeutic and educational practices. We’ll explore the origins of their innovative multi-family classroom, the five bridging themes that guide every aspect of school life—Active Warmth, Respectful Curiosity, Hopeful Motivation, Supportive Challenge, and Engendered Trust—and the theoretical foundations that underpin their work, from Attachment Theory to Mentalization.

Hear how all staff, not just therapists, are trained in mental health principles, enabling them to make informed interventions throughout the school day. Learn about the school’s commitment to involving parents and carers in every step, from classroom activities to group discussions, building trust and solidarity among families who have often felt excluded or blamed.

Maya and Laura share real stories of transformation, discuss the challenges of working with children at risk of exclusion, and examine how the Pears Family School helps students recover, regain confidence, and transition successfully back to mainstream education. Whether you’re an educator, mental health professional, or advocate for vulnerable children, this episode offers practical insights and inspiration for anyone interested in systemic change and holistic support for families.

Laura is a family and systemic psychotherapist and supervisor with extensive experience in therapeutic education and safeguarding. For the past six years, she has been a senior leader at The Pears Family School, a specialist therapeutic alternative provision, where she works as Head of Therapy and Safeguarding Lead. Before joining the school, Laura worked in CAMHS as a Senior Mental Health Practitioner and spent seven years as a senior leader within a large SEMH Academy Trust. Prior to returning to the UK, she spent six years in Australia as a senior social worker and specialist forensic child interviewer. Across every setting, Laura has championed the belief that schools can be transformative spaces for children and families. She is passionate about systemic approaches and their power to create meaningful, sustainable change.

Maya is a trainee family and systemic psychotherapist who has worked at Pears Family School since 2018, firstly as a Class Teacher and now as an Assistant Headteacher and SENCO. Her interest in systemic ideas has been growing steadily through her work with families in education and charity contexts over the last 15 years. At Pears Family School her favourite part of her role is working alongside families so that they are positioned more powerfully within school or societal systems that often contribute to how they might feel they are failing or powerless. 

In this episode, we are joined by pioneering systemic psychotherapist, organisational consultant, and author Christine Oliver for a rich conversation exploring systemic approaches to organisational life, leadership, and change.

Drawing from over 30 years of experience across the NHS, charities, international organisations, faith communities, and private consultancy, Christine reflects on how systemic and social constructionist ideas can help organisations navigate complexity, conflict, hierarchy, and uncertainty.

Together, we explore reflexive inquiry, relational leadership, organisational culture, moral story-making, appreciative inquiry, and the power of conversation in shaping teams and systems. Christine shares insights from her influential work in consultancy and psychotherapy, including how organisations can create spaces where people think together with greater clarity, accountability, and respect.

We also discuss power and positionality in organisations, the challenges of leadership, and how systemic practitioners can work collaboratively in ways that move beyond expert-driven models of change.

This episode will be valuable for therapists, leaders, consultants, coaches, educators, and anyone interested in applying systemic thinking beyond the therapy room.

Christine brings warmth, wisdom, and decades of experience to this thoughtful and deeply practical conversation.

http://www.christineoliver.net/

In this episode of The Systemic Way, we speak with Rick Murphy and Lisa Dvorjetz about their book A Systemic Approach to Integrative Counselling (2024) and the growing need to bring relational thinking into everyday therapeutic practice.

Together, we explore how familiar counselling models such as person-centred, psychodynamic, CBT, Gestalt, and action-based approaches can be reworked through systemic ideas of context, relationships, patterns, and meaning. Rather than locating distress solely within the individual, Rick and Lisa invite us to consider how problems are shaped and sustained through interaction, culture, family histories, and wider social systems.

We discuss what this means for therapists working one-to-one, how counsellors can develop systemic thinking without abandoning their core model, and why integration needs more than simply combining techniques. This is a rich conversation about practice, ethics, creativity, and the future of counselling.

Essential listening for counsellors, psychotherapists, family therapists, trainees, supervisors, and anyone interested in moving beyond individualised understandings of human struggle.

A Systemic Approach to Integrative Counselling (Amazon)

https://amzn.eu/d/02FDlcHh

Celebrating our 100th episode of The Systemic Way Podcast.

We took The Systemic Way to @EFTA-RELATES 2025 Congress in Lyon and stepped into a space shaped by change, tension, and possibility.

Across four days, we spoke with therapists, researchers, and practitioners working at the edges of systemic practice. You hear their reflections, their challenges, and the moments that stayed with them. From conversations on migration, trauma, and social justice, to explorations of family therapy, organisational work, and community resilience, this episode captures what it felt like to be in the room.

This congress brought together voices from across the European Family Therapy Association and Red Europea y Latinoamericana de Escuelas Sistémicas. It created dialogue across difference. It held both innovation and uncertainty. It asked what systemic practice can offer in a world shaped by rapid scientific change and ongoing violence.

In this episode, you hear how people are responding. How they are working with complexity. How they are holding onto hope.

Real conversations. Lived experiences. Systemic thinking in action.

A massive thank you to Umberta Telfener, Parveen Kaur, Yvonne Rose, Ana Draper (she/her), Poppy Thorn, @Karen Franco; Matej Vajda, Carol Jolliffe, Jennifer McKinney, Francesca Balestra<

In this episode of The Systemic Way, we sit down with renowned psychotherapist, author, and educator Jan Winhall to explore the transformative power of the Felt Sense Polyvagal Model (FSPM). With over four decades of clinical experience, Jan invites us into a radically compassionate, body‑based understanding of trauma, addiction, and healing.

Together, we unpack how the body’s survival responses are not signs of pathology but intelligent adaptations—messages that deserve curiosity rather than shame. Jan shares the origins of the Felt Sense Polyvagal Model, how it integrates polyvagal theory with focusing-oriented therapy, and why shifting from “What’s wrong with you?” to “What happened in you?” can reshape therapeutic practice.

We also dive into the practical: embodied exercises, the role of safety and co-regulation, and how therapists can create spaces where clients reconnect with their felt sense and reclaim agency. Whether you’re a clinician, educator, or simply someone interested in the intersection of neuroscience and compassion, this conversation offers a grounded, hopeful reframe of what it means to heal.

A rich, generous dialogue with one of the leading voices in embodied trauma work—this is an episode you won’t want to miss.

Jan Winhall, M.S.W., R.S.W., F.O.T., is a psychotherapist, author, and educator with more than 40 years of experience working at the intersection of trauma, addiction, and embodied healing. She is the developer of the Felt Sense Polyvagal Model (FSPM), an innovative framework that integrates polyvagal theory with focusing‑oriented therapy to offer a compassionate, non‑pathologizing understanding of human suffering and resilience.

Jan is an Adjunct Lecturer at the University of Toronto, an Educational Partner with the Polyvagal Institute, and the Founder and Director of the Felt Sense Polyvagal Institute, where she trains practitioners around the world. Her influential book, Treating Trauma and Addiction with the Felt Sense Polyvagal Model, has become a touchstone for clinicians seeking embodied, relational approaches to healing.

Across her teaching, writing, and clinical work, Jan invites us to listen to the body’s wisdom, honour survival responses as adaptive, and create therapeutic spaces rooted in safety, curiosity, and connection. She is widely recognised for bridging neuroscience with systemic, relational practice in ways that are accessible, hopeful, and deeply human.

In this episode, we’re turning our attention to the UK drama Adolescence — a series that begins with a single, shocking event but quickly reveals a much wider web of responsibility.

Rather than focusing solely on the actions of one young person, the drama draws us into the interconnected systems surrounding him: family, school, peer culture, mental health services, and the criminal justice system.

Using a systemic psychotherapy lens, we’ll explore how meaning, behaviour, and risk are produced within relationships — and how patterns of communication, power, silence, and inaction shape what unfolds. We’ll look at not just what happens on screen, but what fails to happen: where systems don’t speak to each other, where responsibility is displaced, and where intervention comes too late. Adolescence invites us to move away from simple narratives of blame and instead ask more complex questions about how distress is held — or missed — across the wider system.

We are joined by the regular Systemic Lens Team of Becky Midlane, Anokh Goodman, Danilen Nursigadoo, Nafeesa Nizami (Naz). 

In Grandmotherland, Dr Judith Edwards offers an exploration of Grandmotherhood as an intergenerational, relational, and socially constructed position. Drawing on myth, fairy tales, family narratives, and contemporary lived experience, she examines how dominant cultural discourses shape expectations of grandmothers and organise family roles, boundaries, and power across generations. Judith attends to patterns of transmission, alliance, exclusion, and care, situating Grandmotherhood within wider socio-economic and cultural contexts—including the increasing reliance on grandmothers for childcare. Grandmotherland invites systemic practitioners and scholars to rethink grannyhood not as a fixed role, but as a dynamic position shaped by relationships, histories, and social structures.

Judith Edwards is a child and adolescent psychotherapist who has worked for over thirty years at the Tavistock Clinic in London. Love the Wild Swan: The Selected Works of Judith Edwards was published by Routledge in their World Library of Mental Health series, and her edited book, Psychoanalysis and Other Matters: Where Are We Now? was also published by Routledge. From 1996 to 2000, she was joint editor of the Journal of Child Psychotherapy. Apart from her clinical experience, one of her principal interests is in the links between psychoanalysis, culture, and the arts, as well as making psychoanalytic ideas accessible to a wider audience. She has an international academic publishing record and in 2010 was awarded the Jan Lee memorial prize for the best paper linking psychoanalysis and the arts during that year: ‘Teaching & Learning about Psychoanalysis: Film as a teaching tool’.

In this episode of The Systemic Way, we talk about age in the room—listening for it not as decline, but as presence, memory, and becoming. Drawing inspiration from Maya Angelou’s On Aging, where she writes of being “old as the hills, and far from done,” we explore lifecycle transitions, working with older people, and how a therapist’s age is read, misread, and positioned in the therapeutic relationship.

We reflect on age as a cultural and systemic story: how wisdom, power, invisibility, authority, and expectation are shaped across generations and communities. This is a conversation about the assumptions we inherit, the vitality that persists, and what age—spoken and unspoken—brings into systemic practice.

In this episode we speak with no other than Dr. Jaako Seikkula on this latest bookWhy Dialogue Does Cure: Explaining What Makes Dialogue Unprecedentedly Effective in Difficult Crises (2025). The book presents the core principles of Open Dialogue, a system of psychiatric care and dialogic psychotherapy that has spread to over 40 countries. Why Dialogue Does Cure explores the transformative power of Open Dialogue, a radically humanistic approach to mental health care developed in Western Lapland. This episode unpacks why dialogic practice—where clinicians, clients, families, and networks meet in shared conversation—can lead to recoveries unimaginable in conventional psychiatry.

Together we discuss the history, development and discovery of how Open Dialogue redefined care: not by aiming to eliminate symptoms, but by meeting the full human through transparent, team-based dialogue.

Dr. Seikkula argues that the widening gap between humanistic and conventional approaches must be bridged—and that dialogue itself can be curative. This episode is essential listening for psychotherapists, clinical psychologists, psychiatrists, social workers, and anyone interested in meeting the full human in therapeutic practice.

Seikkula, J. (2025). Why dialogue does cure: explaining what makes dialogue unprecedentedly effective in difficult crises. 

In this episode, we reflect on the deeply moving documentary White Nanny, Black Child (2023), which explores Britain’s “farming” system — a practice through which over 70,000 West African children were fostered by white British families between 1955 and 1995.

Through the voices of nine adults who reunite to share their experiences, the film opens up tender and painful reflections on identity, belonging, and survival. We listen to the echoes of care and silence that continue to shape lives long after childhood — and we explore how systems of care can become systems of control when infused with colonial legacies and racialised assumptions.

We speak with Micheal Henry, the systemic therapist who facilitated the Tree of Life work featured in the film. Himself care-experienced, he shares his personal and professional reflections on holding space for these stories — the tensions of being both witness and participant — and the power of collective narrative practices in reconnecting people with identity, community, and pride.

Together, we consider what this story teaches us about how care systems remember, forget, and repair. How do we, as systemic practitioners, listen to what was once unspeakable? How do we make space for histories that live inside the present? And what might healing look like — for individuals, families, and the systems that raised them?

An invitation to think, feel, and reflect systemically on survival, silence, and the enduring search for belonging.

Film Reference:

White Nanny Black Child. Directed by Andy Mundy-Castle, Doc Hearts and Tigerlily Productions, Channel 5, 2023.

Micheal Henry Bio:

Michael Henry, is an African-centred Systemic Family and Couples Psychotherapist based in North London. With over 30 years of experience supporting individuals, families, and organisations, Michael brings deep insight into complex trauma, relationships, and identity.

A UKCP and AFT-accredited clinician, Michael’s approach blends Systemic Psychotherapy, African Psychology, and Integrative practice, drawing on training in Narrative Therapy, Gottman Method, Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT), EMDR, and Brainspotting.

Born and raised in East London to Jamaican parents, Michael’s work is grounded in cultural awareness, compassion, and wisdom. His journey—from youth work and child protection to psychotherapy and organisational consulting—reflects a lifelong commitment to understanding how people grow, heal, and connect.

In this very special episode we sit down with members of the DWP - Race Group (Shakira Nkanang, Calvin Malcom and John Burnham) as we turn our systemic lens on the iconic album by Tracy Chapman (Tracy Chapman 1988). 

We ask, how does Tracy Chapman's album provide a soundtrack for confronting race, power, and privilege in therapeutic practice?  What do the anthems of our lives reveal about the systems we live in? We unpack how "Talkin' 'bout a Revolution" isn't just a protest song, but a sharp analysis of how power maintains itself by dismissing dissent as a "whisper." We explore "Fast Car" as a devastating map of intergenerational poverty and the gendered family roles that keep people trapped in cycles of false hope. And we listen closely to "Baby Can I Hold You," hearing the profound relational miscommunication and emotional withdrawal that can microcosm the failures of larger systems to truly hear and respond. 

This episode connects the political, the economic, and the intimately personal, revealing how Chapman's work gives us a language to explore the systems that shape our clients' worlds—and our own. This conversation is more than an analysis of music; it's a living example of how to grapple with systemic themes to transform training, therapeutic practice, and organisations themselves. Join us for a session that bridges art and action, and discover how Chapman’s revolutionary whispers can continue to inspire our own.

Calvin Malcolm is a Principal Family and Systemic Psychotherapist working in Devon Partnership Trust Adult Mental Health Services, he is also a Systemic Family Psychotherapist with 26 years of CAMHS experience. He is a Guest Lecturer on the DClinPsy Systemic Teaching at The University of Exeter, and Guest lecturer on the Plymouth University Intermediate level in Family Therapy Course. He is a Systemic Psychotherapy Tutor for doctors in training in Devon. He is also a Systemic Supervisor and a member of The Association of Family Therapy organisation that supports Family and Systemic Psychotherapy training and practice standards

John Burnham trained as a Social Worker in 1974 and went on to become Consultant Family and Systemic Psychotherapist in the Inpatient Service for Eating Disorders at Parkview Clinic, Birmingham Women’s and Children’s Hospital, Birmingham. John’s approach to therapy and supervision is under the influence of systemic, narrative, and social construction theories and my working class roots.  His professional passions include ‘thinking theory and talking ordinary’; ‘turning practice into theory’ , ‘creating self and relationally reflexive practices’;  ‘creating solidarity between young people, parents and professionals through multiple family therapy’, and using social and personal GgRRAAAACCEEEESSSS….S to enable clients and practitioners to conceptualise and influence their experiences.

 
Shakira Nkanang is a Systemic Psychotherapist working for an Independent Fostering Agency, where she conducts therapy sessions with foster carers and social workers. She also delivers foster care and trauma-informed training, as well as systemic training to support supervising social workers. Shakira incorporates an embodied systemic approach in her work and maintains a private practice, working with culturally diverse clients. She is the facilitator of the AFT 'Race' and Diversity Working Party Group.

Tracy Chapman - Tracy Chapman is an American singer-songwriter known for her soulful voice and thought-provoking lyrics. Rising to fame in the late 1980s with hits like "Fast Car" and "Give Me One Reason," her music blends folk, rock, and pop with themes of social justice, personal struggle, and hope. With a career spanning decades, Chapman has become an iconic figure in the music world for her powerful storytelling and timeless sound.

In systemic psychotherapy we often focus on the words we use, but what about the sound of them? In this episode, we meet with systemic psychotherapist and social worker Jordan Makmihe to explore the subtle yet significant role of accent in therapeutic practice.

Our conversation considers how the nuances of our speech—the melody, the rhythm, the inflection—carry unspoken stories about identity, belonging, and power. We discuss how these vocal cues quietly influence the relationship between therapist and client, shaping perceptions and dynamics in ways that often go unexamined.

We gently unpack the concept of the "standard" accent and its quiet authority, and reflect on the experience of speaking—or listening—with a "non-standard" one. This isn't about grand pronouncements, but about the quiet practice of noticing: noticing our assumptions, our reactions, and the small moments of connection or misunderstanding that accent can bring.

Join us for a thoughtful discussion on discovering ways to make space for this often overlooked dimension of human difference, and on the simple yet profound, act of listening more closely to how we speak and hear each other.

Jordan Bio:

Jordan Makmihe is a qualified systemic psychotherapist, systemic supervisor, and social worker. He trains and supervises other therapists, and has had research published. Jordan works in the NHS, social care, education, and independent practice.

Paper reference: 

The forgotten piece of the orchestra: Raising awareness of accent as a key dimension of identity and experience, and ideas for aesthetic explorations in practice – Jordan Makmihe

Context 188, August 2023

In this thought-provoking episode, we sit down with therapist, trainer, supervisor and author Desa Markovic to explore her compelling paper on the Aspects of Reading (2021) - a model that invites practitioners, students, and educators into a deeper, more layered relationship with texts.

Desa guides us through a nuanced framework that separates and then interweaves four key reading positions: The Author’s View, The Reader’s Personal Response, Critique, and Self-Reflexivity. Together, we unpack how this model encourages readers to momentarily suspend judgment, identify personal biases, engage ethically, and reflect on the multiple contextual influences that shape meaning.

We also discuss the limitations of reading, the intersections of culture, identity, and professional formation, and how this model challenges both passive consumption and systemic echo chambers in training. Whether you're a systemic practitioner, academic, or lifelong learner, this episode offers a powerful invitation to slow down, ask better questions, and develop a more intentional relationship with what we read—and how we read it.

 “When I feel this way, what does it allow me to learn from this particular paper?” — a question that might just transform your reading practice.

Markovic, D. (2021). Aspects of Reading. Murmurations: Journal of Transformative Systemic Practice, 3(2), 129-136.

In this inspiring and thought-provoking episode, we sit down with peace activist, former Jain monk, and ecological visionary Satish Kumar to explore the profound power of Radical Love—the focus of his latest book.

Together, we dive into how love can be understood not just as a personal feeling, but as a systemic force capable of transforming families, communities, and entire societies. Satish shares his reflections on how love can shape education, economics, politics, healthcare, and environmental action—offering a bold invitation to reimagine social systems rooted in compassion, care, and connection.

From his early life in India to walking thousands of miles for peace, Satish brings rich personal stories and deep wisdom about how love, empathy, and interdependence can heal both people and the planet.

Tune in for an exploration of:

• The role of love in shaping resilient families and communities
• How Radical Love challenges dominant systems of power, economics, and politics
• Practical ways to cultivate love in social action, education, and daily life
• The intersection of love, justice, and sustainability
• Why love must become a guiding principle for systemic change

Prepare to be moved, challenged, and inspired.

Radical Love (2023)

https://shop.resurgence.org/product/view/REBK111/radical-love

To see peace in our lifetimes, we have to practise love.

This is the radical message of this inspirational book of pithy advice from environmental activist Satish Kumar, which helps us find ways to love ourselves, others, and all beings on planet Earth—even those we may find unlovable.

Satish Kumar is well known for his epic walk for world peace in his youth in the 1960s from India to the nuclear capitals of Moscow, Paris, London, and Washington, DC. Wherever he traveled, he found that human beings were capable of a love that could overcome hatred and division. Settling down in the UK, he married his wife, June Mitchell, and founded eco-university Schumacher College in Devon, eventually becoming a leading figure in the UK green movement.

Radical Love distills the author’s lifetime of experience as a lover, parent, activist, and educator into simple lessons on transforming our time of ecological crisis, conflict, and scarcity into one in which we experience harmony with nature, safety, and abundance. It is an exploration of the transformative power of love in all its forms, from romantic love to love for one’s family and community to love for the planet and all beings.

Kumar’s approach is founded on simplicity (including the Jain principle of aparigraha), generosity, and continuous learning. Like an unfolding metta meditation, the book expands our notions of love to its most sublime universal state and makes a great gift to share with those we love.

What if our biggest crises – from climate collapse to mental health – demand not simpler solutions, but a deeper embrace of complexity? Join us for a profound conversation with Nora Bateson, award-winning filmmaker, writer, and systems thinker.

Nora takes us inside the rich ecology of ideas explored in her groundbreaking book, Combining. Nora challenges us to see the world as a web of inseparable relationships, where every action ripples with incalculable consequences. She argues compellingly that tackling our "Polycrisis" requires understanding interdependence, sitting with ambiguity, and nurturing the vital, often unseen, connections she calls "Warm Data" – the lifeblood of complex systems.

Discover how "Combining" uniquely blends intellectual rigor, emotional vulnerability, storytelling, poetry, and art to invite us into "Aphanipoiesis" – the mysterious processes by which life collaboratively fosters vitality and evolution. Nora urges us beyond the illusion of "fitting in," towards a practice of "uncutness" and radical interconnectedness.

We delve into the real-world application of these ideas through her pioneering Warm Data Labs. Learn how these immersive, transcontextual gatherings foster new ways of knowing and relating, moving beyond isolated data points to grasp living, relational patterns.

Crucially, we explore Nora's deep connection to systemic psychotherapy. How does her work, rooted in the legacy of her father, Gregory Bateson, resonate with therapeutic practices? How does understanding systems at multiple levels – from the personal psyche to the global ecosystem – inform healing, relationships, and our collective responsibility for humanity's future?

Prepare for a mind-expanding journey where love, humour, curiosity, and the courage to be vulnerable collide with the urgent trials of our time. Nora Bateson doesn't just offer analysis; she beckons us towards revelation and revolution in how we perceive ourselves, our communities, and our place in the intricate tapestry of life.

In this rich and wide-ranging conversation, we sit down with Umberta Telfener, President of EFTA, and Hans Christian Michaelsen, Vice President, to explore the heart of systemic practice across Europe.

Together, they unpack what EFTA (European Family Therapy Association) is, how it’s structured, and what it offers to both long-standing members and curious newcomers. We hear about their personal journeys into systemic therapy, the organization’s current goals, and the evolving landscape of family and systemic practice in response to global challenges—from climate change to social justice.

We also dive into the EFTA Task Forces—on Social Justice, Research, Training Standards, Ethics, and External Relationships—and explore how these working groups are shaping the future of systemic thinking and action.

Whether you’re a seasoned practitioner or just discovering systemic ideas, this episode offers an open invitation to get involved, attend the upcoming EFTA Congress, and take part in a growing, reflective, and forward-thinking community.

In this episode, we speak with Taiwo Afuape and Sumita Dutta, Co-Directors of the Institute of Family Therapy in London, to explore the rich history and bold new direction of one of the UK’s leading centres for systemic practice. 

Together, we reflect on IFT’s legacy, its role in shaping generations of family therapists, and how its current leadership is reimagining training and practice through a lens of social justice, inclusivity, and innovation. This is a conversation about change, continuity, and the power of collective vision.

https://ift.org.uk/

Join us for an inspiring and thought-provoking interview with Dr. Harlene Anderson, a trailblazer in systemic psychotherapy and co-founder of the Collaborative-Dialogical Approach. In this deep dive, we explore her revolutionary ideas—from challenging traditional therapy hierarchies to redefining power, knowledge, and the role of language in healing.  

We’ll unpack:  
- The origins of her work—What drew her to the Mental Research Institute (MRI) and constructivist ideas? Who were her early influences?  
- The birth of the Collaborative-Dialogical Approach—How did she and Harry Goolishian shift therapy from "expert diagnosis" to conversational meaning-making?  
- The myth of "not-knowing*—How has this controversial (and often misunderstood) concept evolved? Is it a political stance, a therapeutic tool, or both?  
- Power, reflexivity, and ethics—Can therapists truly "not know"? How do we balance lived experience with professional knowledge without reinforcing oppressive dynamics?  
- Real-world applications**—How do these ideas translate beyond therapy into education, organisations, and social justice?  

Plus, we include listener questions which tackle the tough critiques: Is "not-knowing" still misused today? Does it risk ignoring systemic power? And how do therapists ethically choose which discourses to engage?  

This is a conversation about unlearning, curiosity, and the transformative power of dialogue—one that challenges therapists and listeners alike to rethink how we engage with each other’s stories.  

Join us in this insightful episode as we sit down with Dr. John Launer, a retired GP, family therapist, and pioneer in integrating systemic and narrative approaches into healthcare. Dr. Launer shares his journey from general practice to becoming a leading figure in training healthcare professionals to use therapeutic conversations in their everyday work.

Discover the transformative power of Conversations Inviting Change (CIC), a method Dr. Launer co-developed to help clinicians balance the normative demands of medicine with the reflective, curiosity-driven practices of systemic and narrative therapy. Learn about the Seven Cs framework—Conversation, Curiosity, Context, Complexity, Challenge, Caution, and Care—and how it can revolutionize patient interactions, supervision, and teamwork in healthcare settings.

Dr. Launer also reflects on the challenges facing the NHS, the importance of storytelling in medicine, and his hopes for the future of healthcare education. Whether you're a healthcare professional, therapist, or simply curious about innovative approaches to communication, this episode offers valuable insights into creating meaningful, patient-centered care.

Tune in for a thought-provoking discussion that bridges the gap between medicine and therapy, and explores how curiosity and reflection can transform healthcare practices.

Join us for an inspiring and personal conversation with John Burnham, a true trailblazer in systemic psychotherapy and a visionary in the field of family therapy. With a career spanning over five decades, John has dedicated his life to transforming the way we understand and approach mental health, particularly in the context of eating disorders and family dynamics.

In this insightful podcast episode, John Burnham, reflects on his decades-long career, sharing personal and professional experiences that have shaped his approach to systemic psychotherapy. He discusses the importance of relationships, both in therapy and in life, emphasizing how trust, risk-taking, and role-playing are essential tools for growth and connection. 

John recounts memorable moments from his practice, including how live supervision and reflective teams have influenced his work, and highlights the value of humility, curiosity, and adaptability in therapeutic practice. He also touches on the evolution of family therapy, the importance of staying relevant in the field, and his hopes for its future. With warmth and wisdom, John offers a heartfelt exploration of what it means to be a therapist, a colleague, and a lifelong learner in the ever-changing landscape of psychotherapy.

Summary of episode:

1. Role of Role Play in Learning:
   • Importance of role play in helping students learn by making mistakes, recovering, and moving forward.
   • Example of a supervisor demonstrating techniques with families in front of students, which students found helpful.
2. Overcoming Fear of Failure:
   • Students often hold back due to fear of making mistakes or not knowing how to start.
   • Encouragement to take action, even if clumsy, rather than waiting to be "clever" or perfect.
   • Families can be forgiving and collaborative in the process.
3. Engaging Families in Therapy:
   • Therapists need to show willingness to engage with families before expecting families to engage in therapy.
   • Importance of taking initiative and co-creating solutions with families.
   • Example of a therapist reading through a client's extensive notes and deciding to engage based on the person, not just the notes.
4. Building Trust with Marginalized Families:
   • Some families, such as same-sex couples, may fear judgment or criticism from therapists.
   • Therapists need to reach out and create a safe space for these families to engage.
   • Example of a therapist meeting a same-sex couple at the top of the stairs to reassure them and invite them into therapy.
5. Ethics of Offering Therapy:
   • Debate on whether to offer therapy without meeting the client first.
   • Perspective that it is unethical to reject clients without meeting them and understanding their unique situation.
6. Personal Reflections on Career and Privilege:
   • Gratitude for being able to work in a field that is fulfilling and impactful.
   • Reflection on the privilege of loving one's job and making a contribution to others' lives.
   • Connection to personal family history, such as a parent who trained as a family therapist but never practiced.
7. Decolonization in Family Therapy:
   • Family therapy as a decolonizing process against the medical model and individualization.
   • Discussion of presentism and judging past actions by current standards.
   • Reflection on the lack of exposure to racial issues in a monocultural environment and how that shaped early understanding.
8. Intergenerational Impact of Training:
   • Therapists training the children of those they previously trained, highlighting the long-term impact of their work.

In this episode, we sit down with Nick Putman, founder of Open Dialogue UK and a leading force in adapting the Open Dialogue approach to the UK. As a UKCP registered psychotherapist and certified Open Dialogue practitioner and trainer, Nick shares his journey of learning directly from pioneers like Jaakko Seikkula and Jorma Ahonen, and how he has worked to bring this revolutionary approach to the NHS and beyond.

We explore Nick’s visits to Western Lapland to study Open Dialogue in practice, his work running training programmes internationally, and his contributions as co-editor of Open Dialogue for Psychosis. With over 25 years of experience in mental health settings, Nick offers deep insights into how prioritising dialogue, relationships, and meaning can transform care for people experiencing psychosis and their families.

Join us for an inspiring conversation about the challenges and triumphs of bringing Open Dialogue to the UK and reshaping mental health services.

In this episode, we’re joined by attendees from the Hayaa’ Network’s groundbreaking conference on neurodiversity, held in Singapore in February 2024. Together, we reflect on the latest advancements in practice, research, and theory in this rapidly evolving area of mental health, all through a systemic lens. Featuring insights from keynote speakers Dr. Marwa Azab, Ms. Nora Bateson, Ms. Maimunah Mosli, and Dr. Mairi Evans, this conversation dives into the intersections of neurodiversity and systemic practice. We explore the complexities shaping the experiences of neurodivergent individuals and their families, offering fresh perspectives on the interplay between mental health and neurodiversity.

Tune in for an engaging discussion that highlights the rich tapestry of systemic approaches in this vital field.

We are joined by:
Rubi Salam
Rupert Armistad
Eleanor Osman
Shalia Sheikh 
Ameesha Sharif

Join us for a compelling exploration of, The Divided Island, a groundbreaking documentary film that delves into the complex history, identity, and shared humanity of Cyprus. In this episode, we sit down with the film’s creators - director Cey Sesiguzel (Turkish Cypriot) and co-producer Andreas Tokkallos (Greek Cypriot) - as they reflect on their journey of collaboration and friendship, the stories that shaped their film, and the ways art can bridge even the deepest divides. 

We are also joined by Dr Emilios Lemoniatis, a consultant child psychiatrist, systemic psychotherapist and Cypriot Greek who joins us as a special guest host for this special episode. 

Through our conversation, we unpack the documentary’s key themes: the legacy of division, the impact of generational trauma, the search for missing stories, and the resilience of families caught between history and hope. Together, we ask: What does it mean to be Cypriot today? How can shared cultural strengths and systemic thinking create paths toward healing?

Whether you’re familiar with Cyprus’s history or new to its story, this episode offers a thought-provoking dialogue on identity, reconciliation, and the power of storytelling to inspire change.


https://www.thedividedisland.com/

The Divided Island challenges the often hostility-driven narratives perpetuated by mainstream media, offering instead a pursuit of truth through deeply personal interviews - from those whose lives, homes, and country were torn apart, to the new generation of Cypriots yearning for peaceful reconciliation.  The filmmakers aim to bring an unbiased, shared understanding of a complex issue and foster a narrative towards a future peaceful solution to the ‘Cyprus problem’.

In this episode, we sit down with David Denborough, a leading figure in narrative therapy and community work, to explore the fascinating journey that brought him to this transformative approach. David shares the early influences that connected his values and beliefs with narrative ideas, offering insight into the foundational stories that shaped his practice.

We dive into his relationship with the Dulwich Centre, the renowned hub of narrative therapy, uncovering how he became part of this vibrant community and the ways it bridges local and global communities. David reflects on the bi-directional flow of influence between the Dulwich Centre and the communities it engages with—work that has taken him from Australia to the UN, and to partnerships with Aboriginal communities, Ncazelo Ncube, and projects in Palestine.

Through projects like Tree of Life, Team of Life, and Kite of Life, David illustrates how narrative practices can transform lives and empower communities. We discuss the core ideas—what David calls the “spirits of practice”—that guide his work, including the life of stories, storytelling rights, reclaiming our lives, and challenging normality.

Finally, David shares his hopes for the future, envisioning how narrative practices can continue to inspire activism, resistance, and community building. This is a must-listen episode for anyone curious about the intersection of therapy, community, and social justice.

In this episode with speak with Dr Dwight Turner who shares his thoughts, ideas and reflections on his two books Intersections of privilege and otherness in counselling and psychotherapy: Mockingbird (2021) and The Psychology of Supremacy: Imperium (2023).

Dwight shares his personal stories around his early life, career and training as a psychotherapist weaving through themes of race, power, intersectionality and privilege. He talks about the creation of otherness and ways to deepen our understanding and relationship to the concepts so that we can develop anti-oppressive and safe spaces for people we meet, live and work with. He invites us into an exploration of interdental difference, alongside discussing the deeper unconscious understanding of difference, and how privilege plays a role in the construction of otherness. Dwight shares from the filed of post-colonial theory, feminist discourse, amongst other theoretical areas.



BIO

Dr Dwight Turner is Course Leader on the Humanistic Counselling and Psychotherapy Course at the University of Brighton, a PhD Supervisor at their Doctoral College, a psychotherapist and supervisor in private practice. An activist, writer and public speaker on issues of race, difference and intersectionality in counselling and psychotherapy, Dr Turner can be contacted via his website www.dwightturnercounselling.co.uk and can be followed on Twitter at @dturner300.

References:

Turner, D. (2021). Intersections of privilege and otherness in counselling and psychotherapy: Mockingbird. Routledge.


Turner, D. (2023). The Psychology of Supremacy: Imperium. Taylor & Francis.

In this episode we are joined by the Association for Family Therapy (AFT)'s Diversity Working Party (DWP) - Race Group. 

The group share their experiences of meeting and working together and their ongoing commitment to bring race to the forefront of our practice. The members talk about the complexity of grappling with this. Alongside this, they share the energy, passion and playfulness with which they endeavour to create safety to explore race in a meaningful way that can support changes in training, therapeutic practice and organisational contexts. 

We are joined by Shakira Maknoon, Prudencia Woode, Jennifer Achan, John Burnham, Amell El guenuni, Jan Lampard, and Emma Louise.

In this episode we talk with Khara Croswaite Brindle about her book Understanding Ruptured Mother-Daughter Relationships.

We hear about how therapists can prepare to address ruptured mother daughter relationships in a therapeutic space. Whether it is repairing the estrangement or preparing for it, Khara takes us through the cycle of estrangement and offers tools to manage the different stages. We focus on areas such as identifying the cycle, challenges of each stage and how to attend to these in a skilful and therapeutic way.

Khara bio:

Khara Croswaite Brindle is a licensed mental health therapist in private practice in Denver, Colorado. She holds various roles, including financial therapist, TEDx Speaker, burnout consultant, author, and professor. Her book is Understanding Ruptured Mother-Daughter Relationships: Guiding the Adult Daughter’s Healing Journey through the Estrangement Energy Cycle (Rowman & Littlefield, July 1, 2023).

In this episode we are joined by Ozlem Kose PhD to discuss an article she co-wrote with Fatma Arıcı-Şahin & Ahmet Abakay, A Tale of Three Sisters: A Movie Analysis from Critically Informed Family Therapy Perspective. Journal of Feminist Family Therapy, 33(4), 315-329 (Kose et al 2019).

Özlem Köse, an associate with Couple and Family Therapy Montreal, holds a Ph.D. in medical family therapy and is a registered clinical counsellor boasting 15 years’ experience in individual, couple and family therapy.

Ozlem invites us to talk with her about the film A Tale of Three Sisters (2019) by acclaimed Turkish film maker Emin Alper. The film follows the stories of three young girls who are taken from rural, central Anatolia to work for affluent families as foster children. We discuss systemic themes such as intergenerational patterns, roles, gender, culture and power and how these ideas are woven into this intimate family drama.


Ozlem bio:

Özlem Köse, an associate with Couple and Family Therapy Montreal, holds a Ph.D. in medical family therapy and is a registered clinical counsellor boasting 15 years’ experience in individual, couple and family therapy. With a strong background in trauma-informed and evidence-based systemic therapy, Özlem counsels individuals and couples on issues such as relationship conflict, separation and divorce, relational traumas (e.g., C-PTSD, emotional neglect and abuse), infidelity, management of chronic illness as a couple, couples’ sexual desire discrepancy and early childhood trauma. Özlem has extensive training and supervision in Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT), which is one of the only scientifically validated couple therapy approaches.

Besides her clinical work with couples and adults, Özlem has a background in school counselling and enjoys working with teens on a variety of issues. She is also trained as a behavioural health specialist, helping individuals and couples improve their overall health and achieve their behavioural health goals such as weight loss, exercise and illness management. Özlem works in English and Turkish.

Paper reference:

Köse, Ö., Arıcı-Şahin, F., & Abakay, A. (2021). A Tale of Three Sisters: A Movie Analysis from Critically Informed Family Therapy Perspective. Journal of Feminist Family Therapy, 33(4), 315-329.

Film:

Original title: Kiz Kardesler
Director: Emin Alper

Dr Jamila Holcomb is a marriage and family therapist and supervisior in Florida joins us to discuss racial trauma. Given the current climate and the ongoing wrestle with racism and its impact on communities and individuals this episode offers essential tools for anti racist practice.

Jamila takes us through the important area of racial trauma in clinical settings. We hear her talk about defining racial trauma, barriers to addressing it, clinical best practices for therapists and supervisors and a call to the field!

https://www.holcombcounselingandconsulting.com/

In this episode we speak with Marianne Le Coyte Grinney about mental health and tech. Marianne is the founder of Held Mind an organisation that offers training, support and consultation on mental health, sobriety and recovery on platforms such as web 3 and discord. She takes us through her personal and professional journey with the world of tech and the need to understand this world and why mental health matters in these communities. We hear about the culture of these platforms, inclusivity and the growing dilemmas and conversations around making these spaces safe and accessible to everyone.

Bio:
Marianne Le Coyte Grinney, the founder of Held Mind and Founding Member of Therapist’s DAO is a dynamic force in mental health services. Juggling roles as a psychotherapist and clinical lead in the UK’s NHS, Mental Health advisor for World of Women, Director of IRIS Psychotherapy and Labour Party councillor.

She’s a recognized presence in web3, relentlessly advancing social justice and mental health access. As one of the 100 most inspirational women in web3, Marianne utilises this momentum to destigmatise and advocate for universal access to mental health and recovery support. Her passion, innovation, and steadfast commitment to social justice continue to make her a vital figure in web3 and beyond.


https://www.heldmind.com/

In this episode of The Systemic Lens, we delve into the enchanting world of Disney's "Encanto" through the lens of systemic psychotherapy. Join us as we explore the complex dynamics of the Madrigal family, analysing how intergenerational trauma, familial roles, and cultural expectations shape their magical and emotional experiences. 

We examine the dual nature of the family's gifts as both blessings and burdens, the impact of secrecy and communication breakdowns, and the journey of healing and reconciliation. Discover how the symbolism in the film represents psychological and emotional states and how Mirabel's unique role highlights themes of self-acceptance and family unity. Whether you're a fan of the film or fascinated by family therapy, this episode offers a captivating and insightful perspective on one of Disney's most heartfelt stories.

We meet with our colleagues Anokh, Naz and Danilen to share personal & professional connections, inspirations and questions about Encanto relationship with our field. Through its imagery, stories and songs we go on a journey that invites you to playfully engage with systemic ideas.

Our home is the theme for Refugee Week in 2024. In this special episode, we are dedicating our discussion to exploring and highlighting the crucial work being done to support refugees and young asylum seekers. We have the privilege of speaking with Nsimire, a leading professional in the field, who will share her direct experiences in building supportive relationships with refugees and also challenging the single stories that can dominate the fields description of refugee mental health.

Nsimire will take us through her personal journey and deep commitment to this work, revealing how she creates a sense of home for those she helps. Her approach is deeply informed by narrative practice, teamwork, and a culturally attuned perspective. She will discuss the key considerations for effective support, emphasizing the importance of understanding each individual's unique story and cultural background.

Join us as we delve into Nsimire's impactful work and learn about the strategies and insights that enable her to foster a welcoming and supportive environment for refugees and young asylum seekers. This episode is a tribute to the resilience and strength of those who seek a new home and the professionals dedicated to helping them find it.

Link to Refugee week:

https://refugeeweek.org.uk/

David Pocock , Systemic Family Psychotherapist, Psychoanalytic Psychotherapist, author and lecturer, joins us to discuss his influential paper, "A Philosophy of Practice for Systemic Psychotherapy: The Case for Critical Realism." (2015) In this session, we revisit the paper almost ten years after its initial publication to examine its enduring themes and its significant contribution to the field of family therapy. David explains what critical realism is and how it manifests in therapeutic practice, highlighting its role in bridging the gap between structuralism and post-structuralism and combines moderate realism with moderate constructionism. 

David provides an accessible and insightful overview of the paper, demonstrating how critical realism supports a coherent, accountable, and robust understanding of therapeutic practice. Through this discussion, we gain a deeper appreciation for the practical applications of critical realism in systemic psychotherapy, and how it enhances the therapist's ability to navigate complex relational dynamics within diverse family systems. This review underscores the continued relevance and value of critical realism as a philosophical foundation for effective and ethical therapeutic practice.

Reference:

Pocock, D. (2015). A philosophy of practice for systemic psychotherapy: The case for critical realism. Journal of Family Therapy, 37(2), 167-183.

In this episode we are joined by EFTA President, Umberta Telfener, as she shares with us her legacy and connection to the development of the systemic field. She talks about her relationships with some of the pioneers in Systemic Family Therapy across the globe.

We hear her passionate views on combining systemic interventions and psychotherapy as we explore the integral relationship between them. Umberta also discusses first and second order change, systemic complexity, collusion and utilising systemic thinking to create meaningful interventions for people.

Bio:

Umberta Telfener, health & clinical psychologist, teacher of the Milan systemic family therapy school (Boscolo & Cecchin), actual President of EFTA, former adjunct Professor at the post graduate School of Health Psychology of the University of Roma La Sapienza, she supervises Institutions and Community work and is in private practice since 1980.

She is one of the senior systemic professionals and thinkers in Italy.  In the mid ’70 she met all the pioneers and since then she teaches systemic thinking in different settings. She had among her direct teachers Heinz von Foerster, Lynn Hoffman, Salvator Minuchin, Jay Haley, Carl Whitaker, Carlos Slusky, Bralio Montalvo, Harry Aponte, Luigi Boscolo e Gianfranco Cecchin.

She teaches at the Health Psychology Post Graduate training of the University of Roma La Sapienza, both Epistemology and systemic thinking and Systemic practice and interventions. She works as a supervisor in different settings both public and private and has written many books and articles in the Italian language with the most well known publishing companies, among which Ammalarsi di Psicoterapia 1995 (Getting sick from psychotherapy), Sistemica un dizionario sulla complessità 2003 (Systemics, a dictionary on complexity, with the direct supervision of Heinz von Foerster, Bollati Boringhieri). She has published with Bollati Boringhieri La psicoterapia come pratica riflessiva (Psychotherapy as a reflexive practice) and with Cortina editore Learning Context, Practices to enter in new settings. She has been past president of the Italian Society for Systemic Therapy and Research (SIRTS) and has been an extern examiner at the Kensington Consultation Centre of London.

In today's episode we have the privilege to speak with Dr. Yoa'd Ghanadry-Hakim  who is a clinical psychologist, human rights activist and supervisor and has been active in the field of mental health in Palestine for 25 years.  

Dr Yoa’d joins us to talk about her experiences of working in Palestine and generously shares her professional journey and the many factors that have contributed to her development through the context of living in an occupied land. Yoa'd invites us to reconsider the dominance of the Western approach of psychology in a collectivist society and to recognise the value and contribution of looking at trauma through a decolonising lens and developing local approaches to psychology. We hear about the Palestinian cultural value of sumud (steadfast perseverance) and how its presence shapes and supports families and  colleagues to find hope to carry on. 

This intimate conversation looks at the many ways that politics is present in our practice and the small acts of resistance that can empower, support and offer ways to reshape how we work.

Bio:

Dr. Yoa'd Ghanadry-Hakim is a clinical psychologist and supervisor and has been active in the field of mental health in Palestine for 25 years. Specializing in trauma, abuse, and severe mental health problems, she works at the Palestinian Counseling Center in occupied Jerusalem and the West Bank and is head of the Arab Union of Psychologists, Israel. A human rights activist, Yoa’d has been a technical consultant for the Psychosocial Support Program for Palestinian Refugees, the United Nations Relief and Works Agency, in the Near East, West Bank, and is a founding and steering committee member of the Palestinian Global Mental Health Network.


For more info:

https://www.pgmhn.org/

Amanda Middleton joins us to talk in depth about her keynote speech/article, Adventures in time, gender and therapeutic practice. Embracing a queer systemic way of working with gender expansive families. 

Amanda shares with us ways to understand gender and sexuality that are away from binary discourses and we discuss why this matters for inclusive therapeutic practice. She takes us on an adventure about her work, projects and passions on utilising a queer systemic approach that is steeped with theory, history and insights to grow our knowledge in this important area.

Topics covered include:

- ⁠decolonising gender
- ⁠depathologising our practice in regards to gender & sexuality 
- relational homelessness 
- ⁠systemic tools to address gender & sexuality 
- ⁠chromonormativity

About Amanda Middleton:

Amanda has over 18 years of experience providing counseling and psychotherapy to a diverse range of people and groups. She qualified as a Psychologist in Australia, and as a Family and Systemic Psychotherapist in the UK and works primarily with gender, sex and sexuality specialising within the LGBTQI communities and LGBTQI families. 

Amanda has worked in the NHS ( CAMHS), Social Care and private therapy fields. Working as a specialist in the areas of sex and sexuality, dual diagnosis (mental health and substance misuse), homelessness, HIV and sexual health, drug and alcohol use, and domestic violence.

This episode focuses on social constructionism with one of the leading figures in the field, Kenneth J. Gergen Ph.D.

We hear about how radical the ideas were at the time of its conceptiopn and the people who believed in its contribution to psychology and supported its evolution. Ken tells us his personal and professional stories of the history and development of his key ideas within social constructionism alongside some of the challenges when sharing with the wider field.  Ken discussed the key elements of its application in the therapeutic context and his futures hopes.


Bio (taken from Taos Institute website)

Kenneth J. Gergen, Ph.D., is a founding member, President of the Taos Institute and Chair of the Board, and the Mustin Professor of Psychology at Swarthmore College. Gergen also serves as an Honorary Professor at the University of Buenos Aires. Gergen received his BA from Yale University and his PhD from Duke University, and has taught at Harvard University and Heidelberg University. He has been the recipient of two Fulbright research fellowships, the Geraldine Mao fellowship in Hong Kong, along with Fellowships from the Guggenheim Foundation, the Japanese Society for the Promotion of Science, and the Alexander Humboldt Stiftung. Gergen has also been the recipient of research grants from the National Science Foundation, the Deutsche Forschungsgemeinschaft, and the Barra Foundation. He has received honorary degrees from Tilburg University and Saybrook Institute, and is a member of the World Academy of Art and Science.

Gergen is a major figure in the development of social constructionist theory and its applications to practices of social change. He also lectures widely on contemporary issues in cultural life, including the self, technology, postmodernism, the civil society, organizational change, developments in psychotherapy, educational practices, aging, and political conflict. Gergen has published over 300 articles in journals, magazines and books, and his major books include Toward Transformation in Social Knowledge, The Saturated Self, Realities and Relationships, and An Invitation to Social Construction. With Mary Gergen, he published an electronic newsletter, Positive Aging (www.positiveaging.net) distributed to 20,000 recipients. 

Gergen has served as the President of two divisions of the American Psychological Association, the Division on Theoretical and Philosophical Psychology, and on Psychology and the Arts. He has served on the editorial board of 35 journals, and as the Associate Editor of The American Psychologist and Theory and Psychology. He has also served as a consultant to Sandoz Pharmaceutical Company, Arthur D. Little, Inc, the National Academy of Science, Trans-World Airlines, Bio-Dynamics, and Knight, Gladieux & Smith, Inc.

In this episode we discuss the Queensland Institute of Family Therapy's (QIFT) meta framework for integrative practice. Founders, Kate and Leonie talk about how practitioners are embracing and integrative approach and their experience of developing the framework. 

Topics covered include:

• The main elements of the framework 
• How integrative differs from traditional approaches in family therapy 
• What it contributes to the wider systemic field 
• Throughout the conversation we hear about case examples & teaching points about the model.

For any training enquiries related to:

• Key Skills in Family Therapy
• Working Safely with Families and Trauma
• Systemic Integrative Practice Masterclass
• Trauma-Informed Care For Midwives
• Trauma-Informed Care In The Emergency Department
• 3 Hour Trauma-Informed Care lecture

Please note that from June 30th 2024 QIFT will no longer be operating but you can contact Kate & Leonie directly to enquire about the framework or their practice.

You are welcome to contact Kate directly (drkateowen@gmail.com or 0408528380) for any training enquiries related to Working Systemically with Stakeholders and Live Supervision: Systemic Supervision In Action.

You are free to contact Kate for any other training in family therapy, trauma, staff wellbeing, student welllbeing and anxiety, and other various topics.  For more information please visit www.drkateowen.com.  You can also stay in touch by joining her mailing list and following on social media platforms such as:
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/drkateowen
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/drkateowen
LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/drkateowen
YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSbcwwK4FFb4MVxxZ6KMqwQ

After June 30th you are welcome to contact Leonie directly (drleoniewhite@gmail.com or 0401002544) for any training enquiries related to Systems and Stories: A Narrative Therapy Approach to Meaning Making and Change, and Picture This: Harnessing the Therapeutic Power of Genograms, as well as any other training in family therapy, trauma and various topics.

For more information on other training Leonie provides you can visit her website https://www.drleoniewhite.com/community-events-and-training  and you can also stay in touch with Leonie by subscribing to her monthly Resource Letter www.drleoniewhite.com and via her Professional Social Media and LinkedIn
https://www.facebook.com/drleoniewhite
https://www.instagram.com/drleoniewhite
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-leonie-white-9a915489

This episode is about Shadi Shahnavaz’s insightful book “Working systematically with refugee families and couples: exploring trauma, resilience and culture” We discuss areas such as:
-Effects of trauma
-Seeking therapeutic help
-Cross cultural therapy
-Refugees lived experiences
-Frameworks for engaging & supporting families and couples
Shadi guides us through her personal and professional journey of working in this area and enlightens her process with case studies and resonances to develop compassionate & effective practice


Bio:

Dr Shadi Shahnavaz is a social worker and systemic therapist. She has worked for over 25 years with complex families and individuals and has extensive experience in working with refugees. Shahnavaz presents and provides training on attachment theory, working with trauma, and working systemically.

Book reference:

Shahnavaz, S. (2022). Working systemically with refugee couples and families: exploring trauma, resilience and culture. Taylor & Francis.


Reviews:

'Dr Shahnavaz is to be commended for writing such a useful book, especially during these times when the phenomenon of refugees is so prominent in our societies. It is unique because of its specific focus on couples and families and its systemic approach, examining the interactive implications of these forms of adversities. The inclusion of relevant clinical material brings to life the complexities of these painful realities, whilst it also indicates ways of effectively addressing them. The book will be a valuable resource both for specialists and for the general public.'

Renos K Papadopoulos, PhD, Professor at the University of Essex, UK. Author of Involuntary Dislocation: Home, Trauma, Resilience and Adversity-Activated Development (Routledge, 2021)

'An important and timely contribution to the clinical work with highly traumatized refugees and their families—very moving, personal and instructive! Essential reading for all practitioners listening to seemingly unspeakable narratives...'

Dr E. Asen, Consultant Psychiatrist, University College London & Anna Freud National Centre for Children and Families, UK

'At one level, Dr. Shahnavaz’s honest new book is an academic text, with a comprehensive review of literature and an examination of the contemporary political and social contexts in which refugee lives are embedded. At the heart of the book are compelling real-life accounts of refugee couples’ experiences and journeys, woven in with the author’s reflexive experiences of migration. It is these narratives that transport the book from an academic text to a complex hybrid between historical biography and autobiography. The book is written in a lucid and accessible style and includes a helpful overview and critique of therapeutic interventions for refugee couples and families. It skillfully examines the controversial subject of whether cultural and linguistic matching between the family and therapist is necessary for the therapeutic relationship. The book is a "must read" for students and teachers of refugee studies; for clinicians working with refugees; for service providers and policy makers; for service users; and for all those who are interested in culture, couple and family relationships and the impact of transgenerational trauma.'

Dr Reenee Singh, Consultant Family and Systemic Psychotherapist & Founding Director, London Intercultural Couples Centre at the Child and Family Practice, UK

In this episode we speak with the much respect Dr Harry Aponte about his career, contributions and process of becoming and being a therapist.  He shares with us stories oh how he became interested in systemic practice and his early days in structural systemic family therapy. We take a deep dive with Harry as he discussed the key ideas that informs his approach, the important people who have helped shape his practice and the values that he holds in his therapeutic work. 

This episodes explores structural approaches, the use of self and working with marginalised communities. 


About Dr Harry Aponte:

Dr. Harry Aponte has made significant contributions in the area of Family Therapy. An Afro-Caribbean male, Dr. Aponte’s work has been crucial in building better systems of care for those considered “underprivileged.” As a trailblazer in the mental health field, Dr. Aponte fought to change the narrative around African American and Hispanic American families from the stigmatizing term “disorganized” to that of resourceful.

While working in the “inner city” of Philadelphia, Dr. Aponte pioneered the idea of eco-structural therapy. This move shifted the stigmatization of early mental health practices for those who identified as BIPOC, and influenced a form of therapy that accounted for the many socioeconomic and racial factors that influenced these families. This shift helped to coordinate efforts to build collaborative practices across multiple disciplines in hopes of providing the best services for at risk families. Dr. Aponte has continued to influence the field of family therapy and mental health, especially for those who identify as BIPOC, through his many articles, books, talks, and teaching of therapists across five decades.

Resources:

https://apontetraininginstitute.org/

Editor of The Journal of Family Therapy (JFT), Sarah Helps joins us to discuss the history, contribution & value of JFT. Sarah shares her passion for research and its important role in the systemic field. She shows how research can support practice through developing knowledge and deepen our understanding of process. She talks us through how to get involved with the journal and debunks  fear of creating meaningful research.

The Journal of Family Therapy advances the understanding and treatment of human relationships constituted in systems such as couples, families, professional networks, and wider groups, by publishing articles on theory, research, clinical practice and training.

Bio:

Dr Helps is a consultant clinical psychologist and systemic psychotherapist. She started working at King's College Hospital after qualifying in 1995 and has recently returned to lead the growing paediatric psychology service.

She teaches on aspects of systemic research and practice at the Tavistock and the Institute of psychiatry, psychology and neurosciences. Over the course of two decades, her research interests have focused on hospital, staff, stress, parental adaptation to childhood illness, and more recently on how communication between clinicians and families works in a variety of healthcare settings. She is interested in growing just, evidence-based systemic practice informed by a plethora of forms of research and enquiry and supporting research that is born from genuine co-production between research-minded practitioners and the people with whom we work.

Dr Helps was appointed as JFT editor in 2023.

Sarah Helps, BSc, MSc, DclinPsy, DProf
Consultant Clinical Psychology / Lead for Paediatric Psychology
King's College Hospital, UK
Email: JOFTedoffice@wiley.com
Twitter: @Editor_JFT

In this episode we meet Francesca Balestra and Laura Fruggeri, two of the authors of the book Psychotherapeutic competencies: Techniques, relationships, and epistemology in systemic practice (2002).  We have the opportunity to hear about the importance and value of competencies through the exploration of technical, relational, epsitimolgical and social aspects of competencies. 

The episode covers:
- the Methodological principles of competencies
-the 4 levels of systemic competencies (technical, relational, epistemological & social)
- case examples for each competency
- how to develop relational skills to develop trusting relationships so change can take place
- Ethics of competencies
- Irreverence
- Relationship between competency, context & clinical skills


Bio of guests:

Laura Fruggeri is a psychologist and psychotherapist and a former professor of psychology of family relationship at the University of Parma. Currently, she is the director of the Bologna Centre of Family Therapy and has been extensively teaching in the UK, Europe, and North and South America for more than 3 decades. She is the author of more than 100 publications in Italian, English, French, Spanish, Danish, and German.

Francesca Balestra, PhD, is a psychologist and psychotherapist. She is a family therapist, a researcher, and a trainer at the Bologna Centre of Family Therapy. Her research interests are focused on communicative and interactive processes between therapist and client in psychotherapeutic sessions.

Reference:

Fruggeri, L., Balestra, F., & Venturelli, E. (2022). Psychotherapeutic competencies: Techniques, relationships, and epistemology in systemic practice. Taylor & Francis.
Description of book:

This book provides a clear and concise description of the multifaceted notion of psychotherapeutic competencies, building on years of research and training and informed by a systemic approach. 

Psychotherapeutic Competencies clearly describes methodological principles to guide both trainees and experienced therapists through the definition of four levels of systemic competencies and illustrates each principle with compelling clinical case material. The book emphasises the need for therapists to develop relational skills, which allow for the consolidation of a trusting relationship in which change can take place, as well as acquiring a set of methods and techniques. Psychotherapeutic Competencies encourages therapists of all levels of experience and therapeutic backgrounds to develop epistemological competency and to deepen their awareness of the extended contexts in which they operate and of the possible effects of their practice at a social and cultural level. 

This book will be essential reading for psychotherapists of all therapeutic backgrounds, in practice and in training, who wish to enhance their understanding of competency, context, and clinical skill. It will also be a key text for systemic and relational psychotherapists, trainers, trainees, clinical supervisors, and researchers.

Batja Mesquita, social psychologist,  affective scientist, and pioneer of cultural psychology joins us to talk about her wonderful book Between Us: How Cultures Create Emotions (2022).

In this episodes, we dive deep into the key ideas within the book and discuss the interplay with systemic ideas. Batja invites us to reconsider emotions as universal responses and takes an outside/in perspective on how emotions are created through culture. We discuss how this can be vital to understanding and navigating cultural differences in emotions. She skilfully presents how acknowledging these differences in emotions allows us ti find common ground, humanising and humbling us for the better.


About Batja:

Batja Mesquita is a social psychologist, an affective scientist, and a pioneer of cultural psychology. She is a professor of psychology at the University of Leuven, Belgium, and director of the Center for Social and Cultural Psychology at the University of Leuven. Before coming to Leuven, she was affiliated to Wake Forest University, the University of Michigan, Stanford University, and the University of Amsterdam. Mesquita is one of the world’s leading authorities on the psychological study of cultural differences in emotions. Her most recent research focuses on the role of emotions in multicultural societies. She studies how emotions affect the belonging of minoritized youth in middle schools, and the social and economic integration of “newcomers” (i.e. newly arrived immigrants). Mesquita has been a consultant for UNICEF and the WHO, and most recently, she was a member of the core group of scientific advisors for the Happiness and Well-being (SEH) Project, and initiative of the Vatican in partnership with the UN Sustainable Development Solutions Network (SDSN).

Link to website:

https://www.batjamesquita.com/


Reference:

Mesquita, B. (2022). Between us: How cultures create emotions. WW Norton & Company.