In this thought-provoking conversation, Professor David Whyte examines how our legal and economic systems—particularly the structures of corporate capitalism—shape environmental outcomes and impede meaningful climate action. Drawing from his academic work and recent report The Carbon Cash Machine, he argues that tackling climate change requires confronting the underlying architecture that enables corporations to prioritize profit while externalizing harm.

Whyte explores the role of institutional investors, shareholder returns, and regulatory frameworks, revealing how financial incentives continue to drive fossil fuel expansion, arguing that corporate sustainability commitments are ultimately at odds with their core economic logic. He believes that corporate reform within the existing system will fall short, urging a deeper reckoning with the structural forces that entrench shareholder primacy over environmental responsibility. Calling for a fundamental reimagining of ownership, governance, and investment, he considers alternatives such as cooperative enterprises and public control of key industries, envisioning what a truly transformative economic model might look like.

This is a important  incisive discussion, from late 2024, that raises urgent questions about accountability, power, and the deeper systemic changes needed to confront the climate crisis.

David Whyte is Professor of Climate Justice in the School of Law, Queen Mary University of London. His most recent book is Ecocide: kill the corporation before it kills us (Manchester University Press, 2020). He is the co-author of Corporate Human Rights Violations: Global Prospects for Legal Action' (Routledge, 2018, with Stefanie Khoury) and editor of The Violence of Austerity (Pluto, 2017, with Vickie Cooper).

In this thought-provoking episode, Christopher Brown—lawyer, novelist, and urban naturalist— takes us on a journey through the landscape around his home in Austin, Texas, the edgelands where the city meets the wild. Drawing from his latest book, A Natural History of Empty Lots, Christopher explores the resilience of urban ecosystems, the unexpected biodiversity thriving in neglected spaces, and the connections between land, politics, and justice in an era of climate disruption.

This is a compelling dialogue about the uneasy balance between human civilization and the natural world—and how rethinking our relationship with wild spaces could reshape the cities of tomorrow. We delve into the intersections of rewilding, environmental justice, and the unfolding polycrisis, unpacking what these abandoned landscapes can teach us about adaptation, resilience, and envisioning a more livable future.

This episode includes readings from A Natural History of Empty Lots, and excerpts of a new sound composition by Cat Byrne, Clapton edgelands (i), gathered in the Lea Valley, Clapton, London, during November 2024. 

Christopher Brown is an American author and attorney based in Austin, Texas, renowned for his work in both science fiction and nature-focused nonfiction. His latest book, A Natural History of Empty Lots, published in October 2024, is a blend of nature writing, literary nonfiction, and memoir that explores the intersection of urban environments and wild nature.  Brown's debut novel, Tropic of Kansas (2017), was a finalist for the John W. Campbell Memorial Award for Best Science Fiction Novel. He continued to explore speculative themes with Rule of Capture (2019) and its sequel, Failed State (2020), the latter of which was nominated for the 2021 Philip K. Dick Award.  In addition to his writing, Brown practices law and authors the urban nature newsletter Field Notes. You can subscribe to Chris' excellent Fieldnotes newsletter here: https://fieldnotes.christopherbrown.com/

Cat Byrne is a DJ, radio host, and forest researcher from East London. She hosts the monthly radio show, Biorhythms w/ Cat, on Balamii Radio, where she explores natural sounds, textured rhythms, and percussive down-tempo, and also a live place-based radio show on RTM, Listening From. Cat is also a keen field recordist, weaving her own field recordings throughout her sets. You can listen to the full sound composition Clapton edgelands (i) at https://catbyrne.bandcamp.com and www.catbyrne.com

A fascinating deep dive on impact investment with Sir Ronald Cohen, “the father of social investment.” This is a spirited discussion about Sir Ronald’s book, Impact, exploring his vision of how impact investing is reshaping capitalism to deliver a form of capitalism that can deal with the profound social and environmental challenges we are facing—issues which he is passionate about. Sir Ronald believes financial institutions are changing profoundly -and is hugely optimistic about the work being done today on measuring impact, notably the Harvard Business School IWA impact weighted accounts project—making the connection between market value and pollution explicit. This in turn brings Ronnie’s vision closer:  a world where investors can measure companies impact and “help change the behaviour of companies so that they bring solutions rather than creating or aggravating environmental and social problems.” This interview was first aired at the end of 2021.

Sir Ronald Cohen is Chairman of The Portland Trust and Bridges Ventures, amongst other roles, as a philanthropist, venture capitalist, private equity investor and social innovator over many decades. Sir Ronald was a founder of Apax Ventures, has been described as “the father of British venture capital” and “the father of social investment,” his latest book, Impact, Reshaping capitalism to drive real change, explores his vision of how impact investing is reshaping capitalism.

In this episode, we talk with Eric Holthaus about his outlook for the future with climate change. Although our circumstances are certainly dire and much damage has already been done, Eric maintains hope that with collective and focussed radical action to overcome our systemic problems, we can move forward and enact transformative change to stop temperature rise exceeding 1.5 degrees.Three ideas that bring him hope are in a Citizens’ Assembly model, where citizens are called together to problem solve, regenerative energy, and anti-racist thought, action and movement.

Eric Holthaus is a meteorologist, writer, and ecosocialist, who seeks to change the narrative of the climate emergency away from dystopia toward courageous, imaginative possibility. In his recent book, The Future Earth, he describes a vision of what’s still possible, and what our future can look like if we make the necessary, radical changes to reverse the short- and long-term effects of climate change and address these crises head on. I’m a climate journalist for The Correspondent, and a fellow at the University of Minnesota’s Institute on the Environment. He is a former columnist for Grist, Slate, and the Wall Street Journal.

In this, the 100th episode of the Sustainability Agenda, we speak to Dr. Anne Poelina an indigenous Australian academic and human and earth rights activist. Dr. Poelina explains her role as a “Yimardoowarra marnin,” which, translated from the Nyikina language, means “a woman who belongs to the Martuwarra River,” in Western Australia. Dr. Poelina discusses what she calls “first law,” the Aboriginal peoples’ customary law covering the rules for living in coexistence with nature, the rules of conduct that hold together and bond a civil society, the principles of an ethics of care. She talks about the indigenous cultural approach to collaborative water governance underlying the legal work that she is spearheading to make sure that the development of the Fitzroy River does not lead to the mistakes made in the development of the Murray-Darling river.

Please see the Matuwarra Fitzroy River Council website to learn more about the Council and its work.

Dr. Anne Poelina is a Nyikina Warrwa (Indigenous Australian) woman who belongs to the Mardoowarra, the lower Fitzroy River in the Kimberley region of Western Australia. She is an active Indigenous community leader, human and earth rights advocate, filmmaker and a respected academic researcher. Anne is currently an Adjunct Senior Research Fellow with Notre Dame University and a Research Fellow with Northern Australia Institute Charles Darwin University. She is also Managing Director of Madjulla Incorporated, an indigenous not-for-profit non-government community development organisation working with remote Aboriginal communities.

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In this episode we meet with Dr. Rebecca Henderson to discuss her ideas on how to reimagine capitalism, ideas at the heart of the new book, Reimagining Capitalism in a World in Fire. This is a wide-ranging spirited discussion, assessing the state of the corporation today, identifying key shortcomings–oligopolies, excessive pay, power, share buybacks –particularly in the United States—as well as the key role of investors -and the importance of shareholder primacy. Rebecca believes there is enormous opportunity for corporations to play addressing climate change, but that firms often need to be forced to do the right thing. Rebecca is optimistic that we can reimagine capitalism and make progress, while recognising that change is frustratingly slow. 

Rebecca Henderson is one of 25 University Professors at Harvard, a research fellow at the National Bureau of Economic Research and a fellow of both the British Academy and of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences. She is an expert on innovation and organizational change, and her research explores the degree to which the private sector can play a major role in building a more sustainable economy, focusing particularly on the relationships between organizational purpose, innovation and productivity in high performance organizations. For several years she taught “Reimagining Capitalism: Business & the Big Problems”, a course that grew from 28 students to over 300 and that is the basis for her book “Reimagining Capitalism in a World on Fire” (Hachette/Public Affairs, April 2020). Rebecca sits on the boards of Idexx Laboratories and of CERES. Her publications include Leading Sustainable Change: An Organizational Perspective, and Accelerating Energy Innovation: Lessons from multiple sectors. She was named one of three “Outstanding Directors of 2019” by the Financial Times. 

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In today’s episode we talk with Rutger Bregman about the ideas underlying his thought-provoking new book, Humankind. Rutger Bregman is a historian and author. He has published five books on history, philosophy, and economics. His books Humankind (2020) and Utopia for Realists (2017) were both New York Times Bestsellers and have been translated in more than 40 languages. Rutger has twice been nominated for the prestigious European Press Prize for his work at The Correspondent. He lives in Holland

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In this episode, we meet for the second time with Jeremy Lent and discuss the present time with COVID-19. Jeremy identifies how this disruption in our normal lives is a critical time to recognize and begin implementing solutions for some of the deep structural problems exposed. Jeremy builds on the ideas discussed in his first appearance on The Sustainability Agenda, focussing on patterns of ecological systems should be applied to human society-and introducing some of the new ideas he is exploring in his upcoming book.

Jeremy Lent is an author whose writings investigate the patterns of thought that have led our civilization to its current crisis of sustainability. His most recent work, The Patterning Instinct, a cultural history of humanity’s search for meaning, traces the deepest dark of foundations of our modern worldview. Jeremy is currently working on his next book, provisionally titled the Web of Meaning: An Integration of Modern Science with Traditional Wisdom, which combines findings in cognitive science, systems theory and traditional Chinese and Buddhist thought, offering a framework that integrates both science and meaning in a coherent whole.

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Geoff is Director of the Centre for Global Political Economy, Simon Fraser University in Canada- his teaching and research concern the politics and political economy of capitalism. Geoff the author of several books most recently Climate Leviathan: A Political Theory of Our Planetary Future, written with Joel Wainright, a explores the challenges global climate change poses to the contemporary geopolitical order. 

In this broad ranging interview, Geoff shares his views on some important recent trends in the global economy, the impact of Covid, and current political scene in the United States.
 Geoff also talks about his recent book, Climate Leviathan, arguing that rapid climate change will transform the world’s political economy and the fundamental political arrangements most people take for granted. 

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In this episode, we meet with Dr. Katharine Hayhoe, an atmospheric scientist who focuses on projecting and communicating tangible, local effects of climate change to increase people’s willingness to act now. Dealing with time lags, is one of our biggest challenges as humans; if we can’t see the impacts of our actions today, we’re unwilling to act. While we’ve seen a temporary drop in carbon emissions from COVID-19, and also general progress in adopting clean energy and carbon pricing, we have a long way to go and Dr. Hayhoe believes in appealing to people through their identities values is the way to achieve more progress.

Dr. Katharine Hayhoe is an atmospheric scientist whose research focuses on developing and applying high-resolution climate projections to understand what climate change means for people and the natural environment. She is a professor and director of the Climate Science Center at Texas Tech University, and has a B.Sc. in Physics from the University of Toronto and an M.S. and Ph.D. in Atmospheric Science from the University of Illinois. She is the founder and CEO of ATMOS Research, which focuses on bringing the most relevant, tangible information on how climate change will affect our lives to a broad range of clients.

She is widely published including being the lead author on several U.S. National Climate Assessments, over 120 peer-reviewed publications, and co-authored A Climate for Change: Global Warming Facts for Faith-Based Decisions. She has been named one of TIME’s 100 Most Influential People along with numerous other honours, and is considered to be a world leader in climate policy, communication and innovation.

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In today’s episode, we discuss Earth System science and tipping points with Will Steffen. We often hear about tipping points in relation to climate change–the dangers of arctic ice melt, sea level rise and the 2-2.5 degrees C temperature threshold beyond which things become catastrophic. What we don’t always realize is the complexity of system dynamics. Will talks about the likelihood of a tipping cascade, when one tipping point kicks off a series of others. He also draws parallels between COVID-19 and climate change, in that it’s important to understand science and not just what intervention needs to take place but to plan for the amount of time it takes for it to take effect.

Will Steffen has a long history in international global change research, serving from 1998 to 2004 as Executive Director of the International Geosphere-Biosphere Programme (IGBP), based in Stockholm, Sweden, and before that as Executive Officer of IGBP’s Global Change and Terrestrial Ecosystems project.

Will was the Inaugural Director of the ANU Climate Change Institute, from 2008-2012. Prior to that, he was Director of the ANU Fenner School of Environment and Society. From 2004 to 2011 he served as science adviser to the Australian Government Department of Climate Change. He is currently a Climate Councillor with the Climate Institute, and from 2011 to 2013 was a Climate Commissioner on the Australian Government’s Climate Commission; Chair of the Antarctic Science Advisory Committee, Co-Director of the Canberra Urban and Regional Futures (CURF) initiative and Member of the ACT Climate Change Council.

Steffen’s interests span a broad range within the fields of sustainability and Earth System science, with an emphasis on the science of climate change, approaches to climate change adaptation in land systems, incorporation of human processes in Earth System modelling and analysis; and the history and future of the relationship between humans and the rest of nature.

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In this episode we speak with Eva Gladek, founder and CEO of Metabolic, and a leader in the space of circular economies. She talks about the importance of resilience especially in times of crisis as we’re experiencing now with COVID-19. Eva talks about the importance of taking a systems approach to the problems we are now facing–outlining key elements of this approach–at the heart of the book that she is currently completing. Eva highlights the critical importance of circular approaches to business-and the powerful results that can be achieved. Finally, she discusses how the current crisis might be a catalyst for us to reassess the way our economic social systems work and perhaps enabling substantial reform.

Eva Gladek is the founder and CEO of Metabolic, a consulting, research, and venture building firm focused on tackling global sustainability challenges and advancing a circular economy. She has worked with organizations in nearly every economic sector, from progressive cities and NGOs, to industry leaders. Eva welcomes the most complex sustainability questions from any sector with an approach grounded in science and systems thinking.

Over the last 10 years, Eva Gladek has developed broadly-adopted methodologies for systems transformation, the circular economy, and sustainable design. She speaks at forums and events around the world, sharing her vision to accelerate a collective greater impact, and is considered a top influencer in sustainability in the Netherlands, a country recognized as leading the transition to the circular economy. Eva works to create an economic system that benefits everyone. She has a master’s in industrial environmental management from Yale University and a bachelor’s in molecular biology from Amherst College.

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In this interview, we talk with renowned Indian social activist Medha Patkar. She speaks about many of the social and environmental issues facing India for which she has been a leader and champion in fighting injustice with peaceful protests and marches. This includes dam and watershed projects which displace populations while also devastating farmland.

Medha Patkar is the founder member of the 35 years old people’s movement called Narmada Bachao Andolan (NBA). NBA has been engaged in a struggle for justice for the people affected by the dam projects related to the Sardar Sarovar dams project, especially those whose homes will be submerged, but have not yet been rehabilitated. She is also one of the founders of the National Alliance of People’s Movements (NAPM), an alliance of hundreds of progressive people’s organisations. In addition to the above, Patkar was a commissioner on the World Commission on Dams, which did a thorough research on the environmental, social, political and economic aspects and impacts of the development of large dams globally and their alternatives. She was the national co-ordinator and then convener of National Alliance of People’s Movements for many years and now continues to be an advisor to NAPM. Under the banner of NAPM she has participated in and supported various mass struggles across India against inequity, non-sustainability, displacement and injustice in the name of development. Her work challenges Casteism, Communalism and all kinds of discrimination.

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In this thought-provoking interview, Xander Dunlap argues that current environmental policies and "green" technologies are perpetuating ecological destruction under the guise of sustainability. He contends that solutions like solar and wind energy are wedded to capitalism and leading to increased mining, extractivism, and social control. Dunlap calls for a fundamental rethinking of how we live, advocating for grassroots movements to create more liberated, self-sufficient communities that work in harmony with local ecosystems. He emphasizes the importance of acting locally while resisting the forces of industrial modernity. Throughout the interview, Dunlap provides a powerful critique of corporate greenwashing and state-driven false solutions to the environmental crisis.

Dr. Xander Dunlap is a research fellow at the Institute of Global Sustainability, Boston University. Alexander has examined the political ecology of low-carbon technologies, extractive development and police-military transformations in Mexico, Germany, Peru, France, Spain & Portugal. Currenlty a co-editor at Human Geography, Alexander also serve on the editorial boards Energy Research & Social Science, the Journal of Political Ecology & Globalizations. His most recent book, just published, it This system is killing us: Land Grabbing, the Green Economy and Ecological Conflict is available at Pluto books and other online sites.

In today’s episode, we speak with Professor Ioannis Ioannou on business sustainability four years after his first interview for this podcast. Professor Ioannou gives an overview of the progress that has been made over this time. He argues that sustainability is the mother of all disruptions–and as it is a domain where companies lack necessary experience and knowledge and skills, some iconic brands are heading for the corporate graveyard. He also discusses his recent research that shows that companies are increasingly adopting a similar set of sustainability practices within their industry–and when companies don’t keep up with these minimum sustainability practices, its performance will suffer. Professor Ioannou is optimistic about the progress corporations are making toward sustainability, but also believes that the level and speed are not enough, nor should we rely solely upon corporations to achieve the systemic change needed to fight climate change.

Ioannis Ioannou is an Associate Professor of Strategy and Entrepreneurship at the London Business School. His research is focused in the area of Sustainability and Corporate Social Responsibility and understanding whether, how, and the extent to which companies and capital markets can lead on the path towards a sustainable future. He is a global influencer, speaker, and advisor to many, engaging with top executives around the world. He has frequently published in top-tier academic journals as well as popular and managerial press outlets, as well as presented his research around the world.

He is currently an Associate Editor of the Strategic Management Journal. In 2016, Prof. Ioannou was awarded the 2016 ARCS Emerging Sustainability Scholar Award. He recently launched a pioneering, 5-week online course on Sustainability Leadership and Corporate Responsibility.

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In today’s episode we speak with John Dennis Liu on the large-scale disruption of ecosystems caused by human activity and the approach we must take to ecological restoration. Everyone likes to focus on CO2, but that’s just one greenhouse gas indicator of an egregious problem. We need to shift our focus from placing too much value in material things and abiotic approaches like renewable energy to focus on climate regulation and restoring symbiotic relationships between living systems, starting with integrated water management.

John Dennis Liu is a Chinese-American filmmaker and ecologist. He left journalism over 20 years ago to create and direct the Environmental Education Media Project, and in 2017 created Ecosystem Restoration Camps, a critical tool to build knowledge and skills for revitalizing large-scale damaged ecosystems. He is a Rothamstead International Fellow for the Communication of Science at Rothamsted Research, an agricultural research institution. He has won awards for his filmmaking, including Hope in a Changing Climate which is an inspiring documentary about the hope ecosystem restoration offers us.

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In this episode we speak with Naomi Klein, renowned author and activist on the state of crisis we’re in and the hope provided by Green New Deals. We’ve made a lot of progress in lifting the importance of climate change in the progressive political agenda, but Naomi explains that we can’t just apply a narrow, technocratic solution. We need a solution that puts social, racial and gender justice at the center. She describes the power of a science-justice-guided approach, and the danger of a hierarchy-based worldview we must fight against. 

Naomi Klein is an award-winning journalist and New York Times bestselling author. She is Senior Correspondent for The Intercept, a Puffin Writing Fellow at Type Media Center and is the inaugural Gloria Steinem Endowed Chair in Media, Culture and Feminist Studies at Rutgers University.

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Today we speak with Dr. Mike Hulme about climate change from an enlightening perspective that encompasses the relationship between science and policy, science and culture, the politics of climate change, and the possibilities for action in the world. Mike claims we are beyond “stopping” climate change, we must be pragmatic and scale back to simply trying to avoid most egregious problems. We must not rely on artificial, one-size-fits all deadlines put into place regarding a specific number of degrees or tons of CO2, and also consider the world’s other problems beyond climate change.

Dr. Mike Hulme is a Professor of Human Geography in the department of Geography at the University of Cambridge and a Fellow of Pembroke College. His work explores the idea of climate change from a range of perspectives, historical, cultural, scientific, revealing various ideological, political and ethical dimensions to the way climate change is deployed in public and political conversations. 

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Today we speak with Dr. Keir Milburn about the ongoing shift of young people to the left in the UK. In this interview, Keir notes how the material interests of older people are aligned with the performance of the financial sector and real estate whereas younger people are less tied to such measures and more invested in public and social good. Keir argues that we need to find a way to get people with many different views to want to work toward the same thing. We have no time to wait and we must move from the place we’ve gotten through awareness raising through efforts such as Extinction Rebellion into action.

Dr. Keir Milburn is a British writer, activist and lecturer on political economy and organization at the University of Leicester. He has a special interest in generational politics and is the author of Generation Left, exploring the large scale move to the left by young people in Britain. Keir’s research also explores the potential for progressive governance, in particular public commons partnerships as a means to socialize the way we process economics decisions.

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In today’s episode with Professor Colin Mayer, we look at the role of corporations in society. Colin believes that corporations must evolve from a focus on profit maximisation to embrace purposeful goals as being positive contributors to society. Ultimately, this is should be enforced by law and performance measured using principles for purposeful business. While Colin is hopeful about the growing momentum building, he recognises that we have a long way to go.

Professor Colin Mayer is the Peter Moores Professor of Management Studies at the Said Business school at University of Oxford where he was Dean between 2006 and 2011. Colin’s research explores the regulation of financial markets and institutions international comparisons of financial systems and corporate governments and their effects on the financing and control of corporations. He also has a longstanding research interest in the role of corporations in contemporary society.

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Today we talk about the expectations and outcomes of the COP 25 climate summit with Professor Maisa Rojas, COP 25 scientific coordinator. Professor Rojas hopes that this will be be a time for mobilization and turning scientific reports into action. However, she acknowledges the large social and political hurdles remaining, and that getting people to change their values is not as straightforward. Professor Rojas also talks about the importance of science communications and the role of scientists in dealing with climate change. Professor Maisa Rojas was the scientific coordinator for the COP25 climate summit and director of Chile’s Center for Climate and resilience research she’s also an Associate Professor of the Department of Geophysics at the University of Chile. Her two main research areas are paleoclimate, the study of past climates, and regional climate change.

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Described by the New York Times as “arguably the most important intellectual alive,” Noam Chomsky is a pioneering American linguist, philosopher, cognitive scientist, social critic, and political activist.

Sometimes called “the father of modern linguistics”, Chomsky is also a major figure in analytic philosophy and one of the founders of the field of cognitive science. Chomsky has been a hugely influential figure in the international anti-war movement –and an unrelenting critic of international power. In Manufacturing Consent, Chomsky, together with Edward Herman, skilfully analyse the way in which the marketplace and the economics of publishing significantly shape the news.

He holds a joint appointment as Institute Professor Emeritus at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) and Laureate Professor at the University of Arizona, and is the author of more than 100 books on topics such as linguistics, war, politics, and mass media.

In this fascinating and timely interview, Professor Chomsky shares his views on the urgent environmental crises we are facing today—and says, following the recent IPCC report, that it is indeed “time to panic” about climate change (he is also very worried about growing nuclear challenges).  He talks about the disastrous impact of the U.S Republican Party over decades, a denialist organisation, and discusses the emergence, and dangers, of growing climate nationalism and fascism in the US.

Chomsky argues that the US urgently needs a Green New Deal, a theme at the heart of his recent book with Robert Pollen, The Political Economy of Climate Change and the Green New Deal.  He notes the way the Green New deal is discussed in the media is a continuation of a massive propaganda to demonize the work of government over several decades.

While acknowledging the impact we can have as individuals by modifying our personal consumption, Chomsky argues that these personal choices don’t measure up against the massive decisions on a national and global level, for example, stopping fossil fuel companies relentlessly developing new production facilities. Chomsky sees great potential for social protest, noting the recent impact of Extinction Rebellion and the Sunrise movement in the US.

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In this wide-ranging interview, Nate highlights the vital, and oft-overlooked, role that a systems synthesis plays in our understanding of the human predicament. Integrating human behavior, energy, money, economy, ecology into the story that brought humans to this point – is the only way we can make sense of future paths, according to Hagens. He paints a picture of a society deeply dependent upon the massive productivity of fossil carbon and hydrocarbons rich energy sources- “in some ways capitalism is the natural biological response of a social species finding a huge bank account of fossil carbon and hydrocarbons”– but, interestingly, he argues we are not only carbon constrained but behaviorally growth constrained and will kick any cans -debt, rule changes, etc to keep global economies growing. Nate also talks about the implications of this – that we are soon approaching a ‘Great Simplification’ and what this means for communities and young people, living differently and preparing.

Nate Hagens is a well-known speaker on the big picture issues facing human society and currently teaches a systems synthesis Honors seminar at the University of Minnesota ‘Reality 101 – A Survey of the Human Predicament’   Nate is on the Boards of Post Carbon Institute, Bottleneck Foundation, IIER and Institute for the Study of Energy and the Future.  Previously, he was lead editor of The Oil Drum, one of the most popular and respected websites for analysis and discussion of global energy supplies and the future implications of the upcoming energy transition. Read his recent publication for more: Economics for the future – Beyond the superorganism

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We are living in a very vulnerable, unprecedented situation–an ecological crisis which is as social as it is environmental. The way we look at technology and economic systems, and the way we interact as social beings in a globalized world is often as if they are separate from nature, but in reality they’re inextricably intertwined.

Today we speak with Unai Pascual, an ecological economist, on the human disconnect with nature, the importance of ecological services, and the need to broaden our focus beyond economics and markets. Unai argues that we must adopt a more multi-dimensional perspective that includes not just tangible resources and money but also fairness, social justice, respect for diversity and nature.

Unai Pascual is an ecological economist. He’s an Ikerbasque research professor at the Basque center for climate change at Bilbao in Spain and one of the lead authors of IPBES’ global biodiversity and ecosystem services assessment. In 2018 he was also nominated co-chairman of the IPBES assessment on the values of nature. In Europe and especially in developing countries, he has conducted research with a focus on the interactions between climate change, biodiversity, and ecosystems. He has written many journal articles and published books and chapters, given talks about the links between land use change and human well-being, and has an active role in international policy bodies.

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In this fascinating interview, conducted with my daughter, Catherine Byrne, we delve into the world of Eoghan Daltun, an Irish farmer and advocate for rewilding. Eoghan's journey is a testament to the power of nature and the importance of ecological balance. He shares his experiences running a farm and rewilding project on the Beara peninsula of Co. Cork, Ireland. His work is not just about farming, but about restoring and preserving the natural environment. His book, 'An Irish Atlantic Rainforest: A Personal Journey Into the Magic of Rewilding', is a testament to his commitment and passion for this cause. Eoghan's insights provide a unique perspective on the importance of rewilding and the role it plays in combating ecological and climate breakdown.

Eoghan Daltun is an Irish farmer and outspoken advocate for rewilding --he runs a farm and rewilding project on the Beara peninsula of Co. Cork. He is the author of an acclaimed book on his personal rewilding work on the Beara peninsula, An Irish Atlantic Rainforest: A Personal Journey Into the Magic of Rewilding. By background and training a conservator of sculpture and a sculptor in stone. This extended interview took place on Eoghan’s farm in Eyeries on the Beara peninsula.

Catherine Byrne is a forest researcher working with Evolving Forests in Devon, England and a Woodlab Fellow at Hooke Park in Dorset; Catherine is also host of a radio show on Balamii Radio, "Biorhythms" based around her nature based field recordings--some of which are included in this episode. 

In this episode, we speak with Dr. Robert Romanyshyn, a retired emeritus professor of clinical psychology. Prof. Romanyshyn is an internationally recognized scholar in depth psychology, which attends to how unconscious dynamics shape human behavior. A prolific author, he has published many books, chapters, and, articles on the cultural and historical origins and development of the scientific and technological worldview. His most recent book Victor Frankenstein, the Monster and the Shadows of Technology; The Frankenstein Prophecies continues this work. Within the context of that dramatic tale, his new book describes for a general audience the story of technology that he told in Technology as Symptom and Dream.

Along with his nearly 50 years as teacher and practitioner of clinical psychology, he has focused his work on the increasingly dire issue of climate challenges, emphasizing the role of unconscious dynamics in shaping the ways we see ourselves in relation to the natural world. Using numerous examples, he describes how the various social, political, economic and ecological crises that we face today are the dark shadow side of our unexamined and unquestioned belief that we are apart from the natural world and not a part of it.

Drawing on his many years of experience working with unconscious dynamics in the private contexts of psychotherapy, he acknowledges the challenges of bringing these skills into the public sphere. He argues, however, that alongside political, economic and technological responses to climate crises, a psychological perspective is essential. In his remarks he provides examples of how a perspective that would make a place for unconscious factors offers seeds of hope for the future of our planet and our species.

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With over half of CO2 recaptured from the atmosphere going into the world’s oceans, they are by far the world’s largest carbon sink. Regenerating the oceans both for the benefit of the climate and the millions of people who rely on them for their livelihoods is therefore essential. In this episode, we are joined by Drawdown Advisor Dr Brian Von Herzen for an exploration into one of Drawdown’s most exciting “Coming Attractions”; marine permaculture.

As has become well established, the accumulation of pollution, ocean plastic and overfishing have left the planet’s oceans in a dire state. In addition, with the oceans absorbing over 90% of warming we are not only seeing a massive die-off of the ocean’s coral reefs but also a breakdown of ocean overturning circulations that is erasing the marine food chain and causing massive dead-zones. As Brian explains, warming is pushing vital cold nutrient rich water deeper underwater so that they are increasingly unable to come to the surface and sustain life. As a result, the oceans are fast becoming vast aquatic deserts. Marine permaculture is a way to address this by bringing these colder waters up to “irrigate” the surface. Effectively it seeks to regenerate the oceans by creating the planet’s most productive ecosystem; the kelp forest.

Kelp forests are the basis and habitat for vibrant ocean ecosystems. With the potential to grow up to half a meter a day, kelp is also an excellent means of sequestering carbon as it grows. If sunk at sea at a depth of over one kilometre, this carbon is effectively taken out of the atmosphere for centuries giving kelp and other forms of seaweed enormous potential as an effective means to sequester capture. Coupled with the fact that seaweed is already a billion dollar industry, with an array of new applications emerging, such as a source for biofuel and animal feed (see “A Cow Walks onto a Beach”), marine permaculture could regenerate the oceans and provide sustainable long-term financial returns.

The potential is thus enormous and Brian takes us through the Climate Foundation’s efforts, since it began exploring marine permaculture a decade ago. Following two successful trials in Hawaii and Indonesia the team are now gearing up to prove that marine permaculture is viable in the open ocean. Brian’s vision is to create “marine permaculture arrays” – effectively floating structures of interconnecting tubing with a wave-powered pump to bring colder waters to the surface. Kelp can then attach to the beams thereby creating the conditions for what are effectively a floating ocean forests; the ultimate organic farm. The beams are suspended fifteen meters below the ocean surface keeping it safe from extreme weather events and shipping lanes. Brian ultimately envisions that these arrays can be scaled to the extent that they can even sustain the economy of small island states – or “big ocean states” as he calls them, whilst regenerating the oceans and providing vital ecosystem services. We discuss the momentum behind this vision and opportunities and challenges around funding and support. Brian finishes by reminding us of the scale of the challenge posed by global warming and stressing that technological innovations, like marine permaculture, provide the “teeth” to match the established political consensus of limiting global warming to 1.5ºC.

Brian Von Herzen is an ocean scientist, engineer and entrepreneur. Much of his career has been in Silicon Valley where he developed innovative technical solutions for companies like Pixar, Dolby and Microsoft. Brian is founder and Executive Director of the non-profit The Climate Foundation, an institute working to regenerate life in the world’s oceans and reverse global warming within our lifetimes.

Follow this link to find out more about marine permaculture.

This is an edited version of the interview originally broadcast on The Drawdown Agenda podcast.

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With the growing reach of climate change-induced extreme weather events and increasing urbanization, it is becoming more and more important to be deliberate about the way we build our cities. In this episode, we talk with Peter Head about resilience and the importance of systems-thinking for cities and city regions.

Every day, intense weather events such as flooding, earthquakes, mudslides and more, disrupt local infrastructure such as energy, water, and food systems, and tests the resilience of the surrounding community. Will they come together to problem solve? Are there alternative means of supplying their needs? Resilience requires communication and collaboration, good governance structures with participation rather than dictatorship, and alternative supplies, systems to help get life back to normal again.

Peter founded Ecological Sequestration Trust and the Trust’s Resilience Broker program to address many of these issues. Its focus is making tools and systems available to every country make sustainable systems a reality across the world. It also works with cities to help them attract capital and investors to set up investment funds.

Peter Head is a civil and structural engineer who is passionate about using sustainable development principles in construction. In 2011, he founded the Ecological Sequestration Trust with the goal of helping cities, regions, and communities develop sustainable energy and water systems and enhanced food security in the face of the combined environmental challenges they are now facing. Prior to that he worked for many years in the design and engineer group Arup. 

He is a recognized world-wide leader in major bridges (he received an OBE for successfully delivering the Second Severn Crossing as Government Agent), advanced composites, and of course, sustainable development. He has won many awards for his work including the Award of Merit of IABSE, the Royal Academy of Engineering’s Silver Medal and the Prince Philip Award for Polymers in the Service of Mankind. 

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Two years on from the book’s publication, the Drawdown team have got their sights on how they can turn their groundbreaking research into action. In this interview, we talk to Drawdown Executive Director Dr. Jonathan Foley to reflect on the research’s impact and discuss plans for Drawdown 2.0, the next iteration of Drawdown that will help implement solutions across sectors and across the globe.

As a renowned scientist and science communicator, Jonathan tells us that he initially admired Drawdown from afar before taking over as director from Paul Hawken. According to Jonathan, Drawdown’s core strengths lie in how it combines rigorous scientific research with strong storytelling. Moreover, by setting a clearly defined goal to reverse global warming, it has resonated with both the public and those leadership positions. We also take a broad look at Drawdown’s research and reflect on some of the key takeaways, notably the vital importance of agriculture and land use solutions, something that is now entering the climate mainstream. With regards to progress in each sector, Jonathan reflects that it is a mixed picture, with substantial success in electricity but solutions still lagging in both buildings and transport. Although the steep drops in emissions required to stay under 2°C of warming may seem insurmountable, Jonathan stresses that it is nonetheless possible should one consider exponential roadmaps of emissions reduction.

Looking ahead, we discuss in detail plans for Drawdown 2.0. Jonathan tells us that the team are looking to further digitize the research through a platform that is updated in real time. In addition, there are also plans for a directory with a comprehensive list of different organizations and groups that are implementing solutions to help create a network of changemakers. Another strategy is to work with actors on the ground in key jurisdictions, notably cities, business leaders, investors and philanthropists, especially to marshal capital towards climate solutions that typically receive less attention. Finally, the team also intend to carry forward Drawdown’s empowering climate message by seeking to reach prominent influencers to shape the public’s perception of the climate crisis. Finally, we also briefly discuss whether our political and economic paradigm is capable of meeting the challenge, looking specifically at the role of business. Jonathan firmly believes that climate is above all a technical problem and that there is ample opportunity to work with committed and sincere businesses to help nudge the system towards change.

Dr. Jonathan Foley is a world-renowned environmental scientist, sustainability expert, author, and public speaker. His work is focused on understanding our changing planet, and finding new solutions to sustain the climate, ecosystems, and natural resources we all depend on. He has published over 130 peer-reviewed scientific articles, including many highly cited works in Science, Nature, and the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. He is also a trusted advisor to governments, foundations, NGOs, and business leaders around the world. A noted science communicator, Jonathoan’s presentations have featured at hundreds of international venues, including the World Bank, the National Geographic Society, the Commonwealth Club and TED.com. His writing regularly appears in leading publications and he is frequently interviewed by major television networks.

Before joining Project Drawdown, Foley led a number of world-leading environmental science and sustainability organizations. He has founded and led climate and environment departments at the University of Wisconsin and University of Minnesota. He also served as the Executive Director of the California Academy of Sciences, one of the greenest and more forward-thinking science museums in the world.

This is an edited version of the interview originally broadcast on The Drawdown Agenda podcast.

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In this interview with Mark Campanale, we discuss divestment from coal, oil and gas and the carbon bubble. 
Mark asks the important question, if we can’t even burn all the reserves of fossil fuel companies, why are we still investing in their expansion, which could end the world as we know it? Stock prices are not properly valuing the climate risk. 
He goes on to describe the substantial momentum that has begun to take hold, with many taking a step up to voice their concerns and divest by moving their investments to clean energy technology or simply away from coal, oil, and gas. Over 8 trillion dollars of investments have announced divestment.
Momentum around climate risk still varies a lot by geography, and some still think that only the government can solve the issue. Fortunately more and more are saying we can’t wait for the government and we must act now. 
What we need companies to act responsibly, and incorporate climate risks into their goals and bottom line. We need a steady change to a low carbon future to avoid the bubble bursting.
Mark Campanale is the founder of the Carbon Tracker Initiative, a non-profit think tank launched to pinpoint with clarity how global capital markets have failed to deal with climate risk. Mark developed the unburnable carbon capital markets thesis, the idea that there are substantial fossil fuel energy sources that cannot be burnt, if the world is to adhere to the necessary carbon budgets to limit global warming. Mark commissioned and was editor of the “Unburnable Carbon – Are the World’s Financial Markets Carrying a Carbon Bubble?” report that launched launched in 2011.

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In this episode we speak with Eva Garen, Director of ELTI, Environmental Leadership and Training Initiative. ELTI focuses on capacity development in human-dominated mosaic landscapes, primarily in Latin America and Indonesia, teaching the people who manage landscapes to restore and rebuild biodiversity.

Much of ELTI’s work is in tropical regions that were once forested, and one of the reasons ELTI’s programs are so important is that only 9.8% of tropical forest is protected. 

In Latin America, ELTI primarily works with farmers and cattle ranchers, while in Indonesia they primarily work with coal companies charged with environmental restoration of their mining sites. ELTI provides field-based training that are experiential.

In one case study with cattle ranchers in Panama, the field-based training on how to create a silvopastoral system was eagerly received because in the dry season, in the tropics, cattle with only access to grass will die from starvation. With the combination of diverse trees fruiting at different times providing nuts with proteins, a silvopastoral system provides the necessary food to keep them alive.

Eva underscores the complexity of power dynamics and need to work with the local organizations and individuals in order to understand the local economic, cultural and political practices. 
ELTI also has online coursework that has reached over 1000 individuals around the world.

Eva Garen, Ph.D. is the Director and Principle Investigator of ELTI, Environmental Leadership and Training Initiative. Based at Yale University, she has spent almost twenty-five years working on the social aspects of conservation and development in the tropics.

Previously Eva worked as a technical advisor on the social aspects of REDD+ with Conservation International’s Science and Knowledge Division. Eva also worked with USAID’s Forestry and Biodiversity Teams in Washington D.C. as a Science and Technology Policy Fellow with the American Association for the Advancement of Science.

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As a society, we constantly hail growth as the mark of progress and solution to our problems, whether it be poverty or inequality. In doing so, we ignore that there are limits to growth and the ecosystem we live in has finite natural resources. In this episode we speak with Herman Daly, the dean of ecological economics, on his pioneering work on steady-state economy, based on the idea a constant population of people and a constant stock of physical wealth.

Professor Herman Daly is a pioneering figure in economics, at the forefront of the development of the field of ecological economics, ideas he has been working on for more than 50 years, in particular the idea of the steady state economy. Herman was Senior Economist in the Environment Department of the World Bank in the 1990s where he worked to develop key sustainable development policy guidelines. In 1996, he was awarded the Right Livelihood Award for “defining a path of ecological economics that integrates the key elements of ethics, quality of life, environment and community”-and a nominee for the Nobel Peace Prize. He wrote Steady-State Economics in 1991 and edited the 1993 anthology, Valuing the Earth: Economics, Ecology, Ethics (a revision of earlier anthologies).

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In this interview with Caroline Lucas, the first Green Party Member of Parliament, we discuss how “green” the UK is, and what progress – if any – is being made towards achieving net zero greenhouse gas emissions.

Climate change is getting more and more attention from across the political spectrum. Theresa May, in one of her last acts as prime minister, committed the UK to net zero emissions by 2050 – a target Caroline says it is too late. We are off target on near-term goals and the longer term goals are weakly implemented, she says. What we need is a massive 10 year mobilization strategy, on the order of a third world war.

With predictions that the global economy will triple in size, we need to take a step back and focus on living with what we have. We should focus our energy on green growth instead of net growth. International action on repairing the damage to the ozone layer was successful because everyone responsible was brought together. There are 100 companies responsible for 70-80% of emissions; this is one place we need to start.

Caroline was elected as Member of Parliament for Brighton Pavilion in 2010, becoming the first Green Party MP. Before that, she served as one of the Green Party’s first Members of the European Parliament. She has twice led the Green Party of England and Wales. Prior to politics, she worked at Oxfam for ten years.

Caroline’s book, Honourable Friends, details her first parliamentary term as a fresh, green voice to the House of Commons. She also co-edited a book on cross-party working called The Alternative.

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Biological diversity and climate change are two incontrovertibly intertwined issues. Destroying and degrading ecosystems releases huge amounts carbon into the atmosphere, and in turn, increasing carbon in the atmosphere adversely affects the delicate balance of biodiversity where it presently exists. Professor Thomas Lovejoy has spent many years studying the relationship between biological diversity and climate change, today he talks with us about why we should think about them together and what we should do for the future, and Biodiversity and Climate Change, which Professor Lovejoy co-edited.

In this interview, Professor Lovejoy discusses the clear evidence of climate change on biological diversity–how it has wreaked havoc on historical patterns, changing the annual calendar and location of species; how the largest wildlife habitat, the ocean, has become more acidic; and shockingly, how the amount of carbon in the atmosphere from degraded ecosystems is the same as the total remaining in extant ecosystems.

Professor Lovejoy argues here that we can take action to restore ecosystems. Conserved or restored forest ecosystems, for example, lead to better watersheds and provide wildlife habitats; conserved or restored coastal ecosystems such as mangroves are more effective to reduce storm surge than a sea wall which simply spreads the impact; restoring agricultural systems to carbon additive systems unlike the modern approaches that leak carbon results in better soil fertility. If we are unable to mitigate ecosystems, we can also take an approach to do ecosystem-based adaptation, which is conservation design so that species can move from one elevation or location to another.

Although the Global Climate Action Summit in September will in all likelihood renew our focus on biodiversity and conservation, we don’t have a minute to lose. Professor Lovejoy argues we need to pivot, and start to think for all the effects our daily choices have within our economic system. There is a need for dramatic change, now, and we need society to reach tipping point where this becomes a central focus.

Thomas Lovejoy, PhD has been a University Professor at George Mason since 2010, focusing on the application of ecological science to conservation policy. Previously, he held the Biodiversity Chair at the Heinz Center for Science, Economics and the Environment and was President from 2002-2008. Starting in the 1970’s he helped bring attention to the issue of tropical deforestation and in 1980 published the first estimate of global extinction rates (in the Global 2000 Report to the President). He conceived the idea for the long term study on forest fragmentation in the Amazon (started in 1978) which is the largest experiment in landscape ecology. He coined the term “Biological diversity”, originated the concept of debt-for-nature swaps and has worked on the interaction between climate change and biodiversity for more than 30 years. He is the founder of the public television series “Nature”. In the past, he served as the Senior Advisor to the President of the United Nations Foundation, as the Chief Biodiversity Advisor to the World Bank as well as Lead Specialist for the Environment for the Latin American region, as the Assistant Secretary for Environmental and External Affairs for the Smithsonian Institution, and as Executive Vice President of World Wildlife Fund-US.

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People feel defeated when they hear the grand cost of achieving carbon neutrality. But what if some of the solutions were to be found in revitalising the collective imagination, harnessing the dynamism of local communities and rethinking local economies to achieve a sustainable future? In this episode we speak with Rob Hopkins, the founder of the Transition movement, which seeks to do exactly that.

The Transition movement is all about dreaming the future we want to create and rebuilding the world at the level of individual communities. When you look at a local community through a Transition lens, you find numerous opportunities to bring the economy home, recreating it in a way that enables money to stay local and cycle locally, all the while creating community connection and entrepreneurship.

There are currently Transition groups in more than 50 countries worldwide and Rob shared some of the unique local projects. One example was Black Isle peninsula in Scotland was given funding to focus on transportation solutions and because they knew their situation best, they arrived at a solution of encouraging biking, ridesharing, and walking in ways were synergistic, so much so that they reduced their mileage by an amount equivalent to driving to the Moon and back two and a half times. The City of Liege in Belgium asked “what if in a generation’s time the majority of the the food eaten in Liege were grown on the land closest to Liege. This resulted in 21 new cooperatives, 5 million euros of investment by local people, two new farms started, two vineyards, a brewery, and 3 shops in town. Lastly, in the thriving Transition town of Totnes, the Reconomy Center is an innovative incubator for new enterprises. They run an event every year where people step up to support each other with their new enterprises. Totnes also has some projects that are building over 100 homes, workshop spaces, a hotel, and a new space for public events, which will all be in community ownership forever and will generate funds going forward.

A common thread of successful Transition efforts is that you see solutions that have benefits beyond a direct reduction in carbon emissions – you also see public health strategy, biodiversity, economic strategy, people feeling invested in their community, and more.

Because of the way things work with subsidies, externalities unaccounted for in costs, existing infrastructures and organizations, we get stuck in our current way and often lack the imagination or dedication to do the necessary rethinking of systems and rebuilding of economies to create a better future. The Transition movement invites and inspires us to think outside the box about the future we wish to create. Rob shares his vision of reimagining the future into something positive, realistic, and hopeful through storytelling and creating ‘memories of the future’. We need great leaders to help us overcome our imaginative poverty.

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In this compelling interview, Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche, a revered Bhutanese lama and educator, offers a distinctive Buddhist outlook on the critical environmental crises we are currently facing. Rinpoche stresses the necessity of immediate action and illustrates how a Buddhist viewpoint can foster a deep comprehension of humanity’s interconnectedness with the environment. He delves into essential Buddhist metaphysical concepts—such as interdependence and the illusion of self—demonstrating how an understanding of these principles can aid in addressing our environmental predicaments. Rinpoche highlights the significance of reconnecting with ancient wisdom and the vital role of educating the younger generation about environmental stewardship.

Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche, also known as Khyentse Norbu and Thubten Chökyi Gyamtso, is a widely respected Buddhist scholar and teacher from the Rimé (nonsectarian) lineage of Tibetan Buddhism. Also an acclaimed filmmaker and author of several books, Rinpoche is known for his modern, progressive, and sometimes provocative approach to teaching the dharma.

Rinpoche is responsible for the care and education of approximately 3,000 monks at several monastic institutions in Asia: Dzongsar Monastery and Dzongsar College in Derge, Sichuan, China; Dzongsar Khyentse Chökyi Lodrö Institute in Chauntra, Himachal Pradesh, India; and the Chökyi Gyatso Institute for Buddhist Studies in Dewathang, Bhutan.

 
In addition to the monastic community, Rinpoche guides hundreds of thousands of students in about 40 countries around the world. As an author, filmmaker, and benefactor, his many creative and philanthropic endeavors extend beyond traditional efforts through an ever-growing mandala of activities.

In this interview with Dr. Elisabet Sahtouris, we explore the Gaia hypothesis or metaphor of a living earth, integrating physics, biology and spirituality. Indigenous cultures have long viewed the earth in such a way. Treating the earth and universe as living means we can develop a richer relationship with them than what traditionally happens with Western scientific views. Care for the earth leads to resilience and will give a greater chance of survival through the coming climate crisis.

She sees the climate crisis as very real, imminent, and irreversible, but believes humanity will survive and adapt, though maybe at much smaller scale. We should all be working for well-being of our mother earth and global family.

Dr. Elisabet Sahtouris is an internationally known evolution biologist, futurist, professor, author, speaker and consultant on Living Systems Design. She is a Fellow of the World Business Academy, an advisor to EthicalMarkets.com and the Masters in Business program at Schumacher College, also affiliated with the Bainbridge Graduate Institute’s MBA program for sustainable business.

Dr. Sahtouris has convened two International Symposia on the Foundations of Sciences. Her books include A Walk Through Time: from Stardust to Us, Biology Revisioned, co-authored with Willis Harman, and EarthDance: Living Systems in Evolution.

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The scale of human impact on our planet is not easy to engage with – even scientists often have a narrow focus on the specific problems they’re trying to solve. In this episode, we talk with Professor Mark Maslin about humanity’s impact on the planet and the new geological epoch into which we are entering as a result – the Anthropocene.

The Anthropocene is the scientific definition of the geological time frame in which human impact has become so large that we’re now in a new geological epoch. It only identifies the “when” without ascribing causation, but will allow us to move forward to discussing specific causes.

In this interview, Mark first of all presents the scale of our environmental impact with powerful data. First there is the tremendous impact from the vast amount of concrete we need for buildings and more, in fact we’ve already made enough to cover the entire planet with a 2mm layer. In addition, we’ve already destroyed what should be normal ecology on land, with only 3% of land mammals being wildlife (the other 97% being humans and domesticated animals). Not to mention the deforestation – we’ve already harvested effectively half of the trees on the planet.

Mark talks about an inherent contradiction between the environmental problems we’re facing and continued economic growth. We’re currently on track to double the size of our economic system, but we desperately need to break our obsession with consumption, question the Western model and rethink the way we define economic systems to account for impacts to society.

Mark believes there is hope that we now have enough knowledge to do something about our predicament, but argues we need several big changes. One is effective leaders who can make real change by leveraging crises to implement balances and checks. We need to take advantage of win-win situations where there is a positive impact that will also happen beyond addressing global climate impacts. Mark suggests we should tackle reforestation, as people move to urban centers and we have available land. He argues we should adopt Universal Basic Income so that people have breathing room to truly innovate and become entrepreneurs and problem solvers. And last but not least, that we should empower the next generation who is already motivated and engaging with climate strikes.

Mark Maslin is leading scientist with particular expertise in past global and regional climatic change. He is published in over 165 papers in journals such as Science, Nature, and The Lancet and authored 8 popular books including most recently, The Human Planet. He is Professor of Earth Systems Science at University College London, a Royal Society Industrial Fellow, Executive Director of Rezatec Ltd and science advisor to the Global Cool Foundation.

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Solutions to many of the major problems in the world have been identified in Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs). However, funding these SDGs remains an immense challenge, in the region of $5-7 trillion annually. In this episode, we talk with Marc Ventresca and Michele Scataglini, two experts in economic systems and emerging technology, to explore the potential application of crowdfunding as a solution to bridge the funding gap.

While today’s donation-based crowdfunding amounts to less than a half billion US dollars –global philanthropic giving is $500 billion–Ventresca and Scataglini believe that utilizing best practices and innovating on crowdfunding platforms can unlock significantly larger sums. In Marc and Michele’s research, they look at three key areas. The first focus is upon the intricacies of crowdfunding technology to learn how it disrupts traditional economic systems thinking. Second, they consider how the platform of crowdfunding could be applied to funding the SDGs. Finally, they look at crowdfunding from a system-building perspective.

Marc Ventresca serves on faculty at the Saïd Business School, University of Oxford, and is a Governing Body Fellow of Wolfson College. His research and teaching focus on innovation, institutions and infrastructure. His current research investigates comparative infrastructure and governance in digital platform technologies and on systems change in the context of 4IR. He advises Oxford alumni ventures and sits on the Advisory Board for Global Thinkers Forum and for Participatory City. He is Senior Research Fellow at the Technology and Management for Development Centre, QEH, and he is a member of the Management Committee of the Centre for Technology and Global Affairs, DPIR. @marcventresca.

Michele Scataglini is an innovation strategy advisor with more than 20 years of international experience in the management consultancy industry, including 10 at EY. He specializes in public policy and innovation strategy. Scataglini is also the founder of INSTA Associates, an innovation and strategy consulting practice. He received a post graduate diploma in strategy and innovation from the University of Oxford’s Said Business School. @michelescatta.

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Compassion in World Farming (CIWF) (www.ciwf.com) is a leading international charity working to improve farmed animal welfare around the world. Its mission is to end factory farming and advance the well-being of farmed animals globally. CIWF’s undercover investigations have exposed the reality of modern intensive farming systems and brought the plight of farm animals to the attention of the world’s media. It has a long track record of political lobbying and campaigning–facilitating, for example, EU legislation to recognise animals as sentient beings, capable of feeling pain and suffering. CIWF has also secured landmark agreements to outlaw the barren battery cage for egg-laying hens, narrow veal crates and sow stalls across Europe. Increasingly CIWF’s team is working with some of the world’s biggest food companies – retailers, producers and manufacturers towards achieving a more ethical and sustainable food supply.

As Executive Director, Rachel leads CIWF’s USA’s initiatives to forge a more humane and sustainable food and farming system through measurable farmed animal welfare improvements and protein diversification. Rachel also serves as board member of Global Animal Partnership, and the Regenerative Organic Alliance, and has worked extensively with Fortune 500 companies to incorporate and strengthen animal welfare within corporate sustainability programs. Prior to Rachel becoming Executive Director, she served as CIWF’s Head of Food Business where she oversaw the growth and development of the organization’s corporate engagement program. A graduate of Northeastern University’s School of Business, Rachel has guest lectured at Stanford and University of Delaware, and has been featured in Bloomberg, Fortune Magazine, the Chicago Tribune, amongst others.

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Since the 1970s, credit has become increasingly easy to acquire. We have become a consumption-based society driven by our wants, supported by credit, rather than a sustainable society driven by our needs. In this compelling interview, renowned economist and author Ann Pettifor discusses the impact of deregulation of credit on consumption, and the environment, and shows how the globalization of our financial system undermines our ability to solve the climate crisis. She also discusses the impact of credit, and more particularly, interest rate levels, on the environmental problems in the global south. Ann argues that the monetary system is a vital public good which needs to serve society, rather than a small financial elite. She suggests that the way in which central banks responded to the financial crash, creating trillions of dollars credit overnight to bail out banks, has drawn public attention to the power central bankers have—and the very secretive way the financial system operates. Ann also shares her vision for a future with high levels of public investment, low real rates of interest, and government support for a green economy.

Ann Pettifor is a UK-based analyst of the global financial system, director of Policy Research in Macroeconomics (PRIME), a network of economists concerned with Keynesian monetary theory and policies; an honorary research fellow at the Political Economy Research Centre at City University, London (CITYPERC) and a fellow of the New Economics Foundation, London. She is an influential political economist with a record of achieving real changes in public policy, especially in relation to sovereign debt. She correctly predicting the global financial crises in several publications including in a book The Real World Economic Outlook, and summarised later in the New Statesman. This was followed by her September, 2006 book The Coming First World Debt Crisis. Ann is currently working on the relationship between economic policy and the climate, and her next book will detail how it’s possible to finance a Green New Deal.

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Helena Norberg-Hodge is a pioneer of the ‘new economy’ movement. Through writing and public lectures over more than thirty years, Helena has been promoting an economics of personal, social and ecological well-being. She is a widely respected analyst of the impact of the global economy on communities, local economies, and personal identity, and is a leading proponent of ‘localization’, or decentralization, as a means of countering those impacts. Local Futures is a non-profit organization “dedicated to the revitalization of cultural and biological diversity, and the strengthening of local communities and economies worldwide.”

Helena’s book, Ancient Futures, has been described as “an inspirational classic”. Together with the film of the same title, it has been translated into more than 40 languages, and sold about half a million copies. She is also the producer and co-director of the award-winning film, The Economics of Happiness, and the co-author of Bringing the Food Economy Home and From the Ground Up: Rethinking Industrial Agriculture. The Earth Journal counted Helena among the world’s ‘ten most interesting environmentalists’, while in Carl McDaniel’s book Wisdom for a Livable Planet, she was profiled as one of ‘eight visionaries changing the world’.  The Post Growth Institute counted Helena on the (En)Rich List, a list of 100 people “whose collective contributions enrich paths to sustainable futures.”

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Martin Kirk is co-founder of /The Rules, a global collective of activists of all types dedicated to challenging the root causes of global poverty and inequality. He is also a consultant for the NoVo Foundation, helping advise their work on supporting communities to transition to new economic models. Prior to /TR Martin was the Head of Campaigns at Oxfam UK, and Head of Global Advocacy for Save the Children. He has written extensively on issues of poverty, inequality, and climate change, including in The Guardian, Al-Jazeera, The Independent and Fast Company.

In this provocative interview, we get a perspective on issues of poverty and environmental breakdown that is very much outside of the norm. Drawing on his previous experience trying to understand attitudes towards poverty, Martin explains how harmful psychological narratives around poverty have become deeply embedded, so much so that they are inadvertently replicated by major development bodies. Martin analyses why this is the case and outlines the need for alternative narratives rooted in history and economics that show that extreme poverty is in fact a political choice.

In discussing sustainability, Martin highlights how the current economic system is unsustainable in its very nature. Martin talks at length about the climate crisis, what implications this could have for global poverty and how the severity of the crisis has failed to be communicated to us. By way of explanation, Martin discusses structural flaws in the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the primary international scientific body for studying climate change and political flaws in the organisation (as its final report is scrutinised by diplomats representing the world’s governments, some of which have vested interests in downplaying the severity of the situation). He also points out that the lengthy processes by which new scientific reports are vetted by the body mean that their reports are reliant upon studies that are at least five years old; an eon in the context of the rapidly changing climate. On a more hopeful note, Martin also outlines how recent events have given a cause for optimism as just in the past twelve months, an alternative economic narrative and vision for the future around poverty and environmental issues is starting to take shape.

If you are interested in Martin’s interview, we also recommend that you listen to our interviews with Kate Raworth, Jason Hickel and the Drawdown Agenda Podcast, our podcast exploring the solutions behind Project Drawdown.

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When we think about the magnitude of global emissions and the scale of the decarbonisation challenge, it is easy to feel that our individual actions are inconsequential. In this episode, we talk to Brett Jenks, President and CEO of the conservation organisation Rare, to look at the crucial role of behaviour change in reducing carbon dioxide emissions. Brett tells us about the practical insights Rare has gleaned on how to facilitate behaviour change– and talks us through a recent report by Rare which found that 30 key carbon dioxide reduction solutions –as outlined in Project Drawdown — depend on behaviour change, altogether amounting to one third of the reductions in greenhouse gas emissions modelled. While different solutions are applicable to different parts of the world, it is clear that behaviour change is crucial. As Brett puts it: “socially we need to change our lifestyles faster than our climate is changing or we’re no longer going to be in control”.

With over twenty years’ experience in harnessing behaviour change for conservation and sustainability efforts, Brett stresses that typical strategies revolving around logic and hard facts are broken and rarely go beyond creating a small but committed constituency. Instead, creating climate smart behaviour is dependent on emotional appeals, social incentives and choice architecture, approaches found in nudge theory. Drawing parallels with the societal changes that have occurred in much of the western world around attitudes to racism, homophobia and sexism, Brett points out that rapid changes in societal norms are possible. Drawing on Everett Rodgers’ theory of the diffusion of innovation he explains how change happens and emphasises the importance of early adopters in making change visible and desirable. In particular, he points to a growing acceptance for plant-rich diets and the rise of Tesla as examples of climate smart behaviours that are starting to move towards an early majority.

Brett also emphasises the importance of building momentum around behaviour change in order to encourage policy shift. He notes that advocacy work by organisations tends to overemphasise the importance of politicians at the expense of social movements, which are often what drive policy change. He also points to how shifting consumer preferences, particularly among eco-conscious millennials are encouraging the market to react accordingly. He also points out that much of this is being facilitated by the radical transparency provided by new technologies, such as blockchain, which are empowering consumers and may eventually allow us to see our carbon footprints as accurately and readily as we see our bank balances.

Brett Jenks is the President and CEO of Rare, a global conservation organization whose mission is to inspire change so people and nature thrive. Rare’s work stems from the belief that the root causes of environmental dangers stem from human behaviour and draws on marketing techniques and technical interventions to equip people in biologically diverse areas with the tools and motivation to protect their natural resources. Under Brett’s leadership the organisation has grown substantially so that it now operates in 56 countries and has reached over ten million people. He has written for The New York Times, Huffington Post, the Stanford Social Innovation Review and other publications. He is a Catto Fellow, Braddock Scholar, and McNulty Prize laureate at the Aspen Institute and serves on the Closed Loop Fund investment committee and Rare’s board of directors. Prior to Rare, Brett was a journalist and filmmaker, and he served as the Costa Rica Field Coordinator for WorldTeach, a non-profit based at Harvard’s Center for International Development.

You can find out more about the report Climate Change Needs Behavior Change: Making the Case for Behavioral Solutions to Reduce Global Warming here. This is an edited version of an interview for the Drawdown Agenda podcast.

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Peter Barnes is an innovative thinker and entrepreneur whose work has focused on fixing the deepest flaws of capitalism. He has written numerous books and articles, co-founded several socially responsible businesses, and started a retreat for progressive writers. His most recent books are With Liberty and Dividends for All and Capitalism 3.0: A Guide to Reclaiming the Commons. Peter lives in northern California with his wife, dogs and vegetable garden. In this wide-ranging and compelling interview, Peter discusses his work over recent decades, exploring the workings and evolution of capitalism, and looks to the future. Peter believes that capitalism started as a highly effective solution to the problems of scarcity, but has become the central problem of our day, highlighting how it has driven the environmental crises we are now facing. Peter emphasizes the importance of managing the commons, a central concern in his recent work, as well as the role of property rights, and identifies a number of innovative ideas which he believes will make capitalism work better at the same time as deal with the environmental crises we are now facing.

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In this interview with author Daniel Pinchbeck, we explore the ultimate meaning of the psychological and civilizational crisis we are facing today. As humanities rapid evolution has disrupted our fragile ecosystems, we must consider a transition between an old world and way of living to the next world, our future societies. Daniel describes his ideas for regenerative or post-growth societies, where an emphasis is placed on the things we can grow together, indefinitely, rather than our current systems that do not produce happiness. We consider ways to enhance regenerative practices and question whether core issues in love have led to corruption.

Daniel Pinchbeck is a writer, author and blogger. His works include Breaking Open the Head (2002), 2012: The Return of Quetzalcoatl (2006), and most recently How Soon is Now (2017). He was the executive director of the think tank Center for Planetary Culture, and launched the web magazine Reality Sandwich and co-founded Evolver.net.

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In this episode, we speak to Dr. Anne Poelina an indigenous Australian academic and human and earth rights activist. Dr. Poelina explains her role as a “Yimardoowarra marnin,” which, translated from the Nyikina language, means “a woman who belongs to the Martuwarra River,” in Western Australia. Dr. Poelina discusses what she calls “first law,” the Aboriginal peoples’ customary law covering the rules for living in coexistence with nature, the rules of conduct that hold together and bond a civil society, the principles of an ethics of care. She talks about the indigenous cultural approach to collaborative water governance underlying the legal work that she is spearheading to make sure that the development of the Fitzroy River does not lead to the mistakes made in the development of the Murray-Darling river.Please see the Matuwarra Fitzroy River Council website to learn more about the Council and its work.Dr. Anne Poelina is a Nyikina Warrwa (Indigenous Australian) woman who belongs to the Mardoowarra, the lower Fitzroy River in the Kimberley region of Western Australia. She is an active Indigenous community leader, human and earth rights advocate, filmmaker and a respected academic researcher. Anne is currently an Adjunct Senior Research Fellow with Notre Dame University and a Research Fellow with Northern Australia Institute Charles Darwin University. She is also Managing Director of Madjulla Incorporated, an indigenous not-for-profit non-government community development organisation working with remote Aboriginal communities.The post Episode 100: Interview with Anne Poelina, Indigenous Australian and Nyikina Traditional Custodian appeared first on The Sustainability Agenda. This episode was first aired in August 2020.

Professor Carlota Perez has spent her career researching the profound impact technology has had on socio-economic development.  In this fascinating interview, we explore the two distinct phases of a technological revolution as outlined by Carlota: installation – or experimental early phase – and deployment (or “Golden Age”).  Carlota emphasizes the critical role governments play in this phase. By setting a clear and context-sensitive pathway for the transformation through new policies, regulations and taxes, the state can ensure a win-win outcome for both business and society.  Considering the trends from the four previous technological revolutions, Carlota compares the current socio-economic situation to the 1930s and suggests how we can move forward towards a sustainable golden age for our information revolution.

Carlota Perez is a Venezuelan-British researcher and educator, currently affiliated to three universities in the UK ­– LSE, IIPP-UCL and SPRU (Sussex) – and to TalTech in Estonia.  She specializes in the relationship between technology and socio-economic development, with a focus on techno-economic paradigm shifts and the theory of great surges (a development of Schumpeter’s work on Kondratieff waves). Her book, Technological Revolutions and Financial Capital: The Dynamics of Bubbles and Golden Ages, published in 2002, has had a profound impact on our understanding of how technology shapes our institutional, economic, and social development.

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In recent years, more and more attention has been paid to how economic theory is divorced from environmental reality, exemplified by how environmental breakdown is often dismissingly referred to as a mere “externality”. In this fascinating interview, we’re talking to self-described renegade economist Kate Raworth about a new economic vision that is firmly grounded in social progress and embedded in the environmental limits of our planetary household.

Images are immensely powerful in shaping our perceptions. Raworth believes that tackling the unsustainability of our economic system requires new images that anchor human wellbeing within environmental boundaries. Raworth proposes an alternative in the doughnut – a safe and just space in which for humanity to survive and thrive in the 21st century. The doughnut, named after its shape, features an outer ecological ceiling with the nine planetary boundaries that humanity must not transgress to maintain a safe and stable environment and an inner ring with twelve crucial social foundations to ensure all of humanity’s peoples can have their human rights met. Doing so provides a compass in which we can redefine economics success.

To this end, Raworth proposes seven different ways of evolving economic theories of the 20th century to meet the challenges of the 21st. In particular, she stresses the limits of GDP-oriented economic growth particularly its great inefficiency in distributing economic gains and the evident flawed thinking of the environmental Kuznets Curve. Rather than get mired in the green growth debate Raworth elegantly navigates the issue by stating that we need to be agnostic about growth. In short, we need to move from economies that need to grow, whether or not it makes us thrive towards economies that make us thrive, whether or not they grow.
 The doughnut also reveals the scale of the challenge, as currently no country is living within the doughnut so that “we are all developing countries now”. On a global scale, the picture is equally bleak as four environmental boundaries have been breached and none of the social foundations are being met. Far from being an optimist, Raworth stresses the urgency of the present and how we, the people of the early 21st century, are the first generation to truly understand the extent of damage we are doing to the planet, and the last to be able to do something about it.

Raworth is a Senior Visiting Research Associate at Oxford University’s Environmental Change Institute and a Senior Associate at the Cambridge Institute for Sustainability Leadership. Since Doughnut Economics was published in 2017, it has been translated into 15 languages, and The Guardian has named her “one of the top ten tweeters on economic transformation.”

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In this interview, we welcome Ian Gough to discuss his most recent book Heat, Greed and Human Need: Climate Change, Capitalism, and Sustainable Wellbeing. Here, Ian describes his initial concerns over the evident gap between the climate change agenda and social policy over the last decade. Ian’s work aims to blend together economy, ecology, social policy, and politics into a conclusive analysis to explain both the drivers and the human consequences of climate change. He discusses the importance of eco-social policies (combining climate policies and social policies) with examples such as social pricing of utilities, higher taxes on luxury items, or reduced work schedules to enhance people’s lives. Like many, Ian is worried about the consumption rate of wealthy nations and discusses his idea of ‘recomposing consumption’ as an intermediate strategy: to reduce pointless luxuries and improve the production of necessities to enhance wellbeing. He uses the example of 46 million people driving SUVs in the United States. The World Bank found that if all these SUVs were swapped for European cars, enough electricity could be generated within this emissions envelope to supply all the people on the planet with power. While SUVs are not a necessity, electricity is, and Ian stresses our need to start thinking about this on a world scale.

Ian is Visiting Professor at the Centre for the Analysis of Social Exclusion (CASE) and an associate at the Grantham Research Institute on Climate Change and the Environment (GRI), both at the LSE. He studied Economics at the University of Cambridge in the early 1960s and then spent over 30 years teaching and researching Social Policy at Manchester University before moving onto the University of Bath, where he is now Emeritus Professor.

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