Martin Van Buren served just one term as President from 1837 to 1841, but as the architect behind the founding of the Democratic Party, his legacy lives on in the US today. In this episode, we speak with James M. Bradley, author of the new book Martin Van Buren: America's First Politician, to learn how Van Buren helped reshape politics in the 19th century and laid the groundwork for America's two-party system.

You can learn more about the work being done to preserve the papers of Martin Van Buren at VanBurenPapers.org. 

Love history and want to go on a cruise? Join Ben and History That Doesn't Suck's Greg Jackson for a 5-day/4-night cruise of the Caribbean that runs from May 18-22! Visit htdscruise.com for details and enter promo code RTN at checkout for $100 off a cabin!

 

And don't forget that Bob's new book America's Founding Son: John Quincy Adams from President to Political Maverickis now available! Click here to get your copy!

 

 

This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher and originally aired as episode 324 in January 2025. 

Ben & Bob speak with Hans Zeiger, President of the Jack Miller Center for Teaching America's Founding Principles & History. We discuss the work that the JMC is doing to promote teaching the founding principles and civics to Americas young people from kindergarten through college. The JMC will be hosting a National Summit on Civil Education in Philadelphia, May 18-19. Click here for details.  

Love history and want to go on a cruise? Join Ben and History That Doesn't Suck's Greg Jackson for a 5-day/4-night cruise of the Caribbean that runs from May 18-22! Visit htdscruise.com for details and enter promo code RTN at checkout for $100 off a cabin!

And don't forget that Bob's new book America's Founding Son: John Quincy Adams from President to Political Maverickis now available! Click here to get your copy!

This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

The Monroe Doctrine has provided Presidents and foreign policy leaders with the rhetorical justification for their actions going back as far as James K. Polk, but the symbolic power attributed to the doctrine is far more substantial than the impact it had when it was published in 1823. In this episode, historian Jay Sexton walks us through the evolution of the Monroe Doctrine in political rhetoric, its implications for modern US foreign policy and why he claims that, in its original form, it amounted to a "nothingburger."

Dr. Jay Sexton is the Rich and Nancy Kinder Chair of Constitutional Democracy, Professor of History and Director of the Kinder Institute at the University of Missouri. He has published extensively on the Monroe Doctrine, including The Monroe Doctrine: Empire and Nation in Nineteenth-Century America (Hill and Wang, 2011) and "The Monroe Doctrine in an Age of Global History" (Diplomatic History, 2023).

This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer

In 1992, President George Bush's bid for a second term did not go well. Despite taking 79% of the electoral vote in 1988, holding office during the collapse of communism in Europe, and serving as commander-in-chief during the US victory in the first Iraq War, Bush found himself flanked by a smooth talking former Arkansas governor and a Texas businessman armed with a personal fortune and a lot of charts. When it was all over, Bush had garnered about ten million fewer votes than he had four years earlier and a 12-year run of Republican Presidents was over.

 

How did Bill Clinton manage to beat an incumbent President by so much? Was third-party contender Ross Perot responsible for Bush's catastrophic loss in 1992, or was it really, as Clinton's people claimed, "the economy, stupid?" And why did Perot, who at one point looked to be a viable contender, decide to drop out of the race, only to rejoin a few weeks before the election? Let's find out.

 

Welcome to the Road to Now's Third Party Election Series. Today: The election of 1992 with Julian Zelizer.

 

Julian Zelizer is Malcolm Stevenson Forbes, Class of 1941 Professor of History and Public Affairs, Princeton School of Public & International Affairs at Princeton University. He is the award-winning author and editor of 25 books including The Fierce Urgency of Now: Lyndon Johnson, Congress, and the Battle for the Great Society, the winner of the D.B. Hardeman Prize for the Best Book on Congress and Fault Lines: A History of the United States Since 1974, co-authored and Burning Down the House: Newt Gingrich, The Fall of a Speaker, and the Rise of the New Republican Party.

 

This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

 

On November 4, 1980, California Republican Ronald Reagan trounced Jimmy Carter at the polls, beating the incumbent by almost 10 percentage points in the popular election and winning 489 of 538 electors. That type of victory combined with Reagan's larger than life place in modern political history might lead you to believe the 1980 campaign was never in doubt. But it was. And in early 1980, both men faced viable challengers within their own party, as well as a third party candidate whose 5.7 million popular votes could have changed the outcome of a closer election. The Presidential election of 1980 was not just a turning point- it was, in fact, far more interesting than most people give it credit for.

 

Why did Ted Kennedy decide to challenge the sitting President in the Democratic Primary? How did George Bush win 3 of the first seven GOP primaries against the presumed nominee? And why, as his party's fortunes looked the best they had in years, did Republican hopeful John B. Anderson of Illinois decide to leave the GOP to run a third party campaign? Let's find out.

 

Welcome to The Road to Now's Third Party Elections Series. Today: The election of 1980 with Rick Perlstein.

 

Rick Perlstein is the author of multiple award-winning books, including Nixonland: The Rise of a President and the Fracturing of America (2009) and Reaganland: America's Right Turn, 1976-1980 (2021). You can hear Rick discussing Reaganland in his previous appearance on The Road to Now in episode #199

 

You can get an extended version of this conversation, extra episodes and more by supporting us on Patreon! Click here for the extended episode!

 

This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

The famous image of a victorious Harry Truman holding up a newspaper headlined "Dewey defeats Truman" is clear evidence that the 1948 Presidential election did not turn out the way many people had expected. That April, Truman's approval rating had sunk to 37%, causing even many in his party to consider dumping him from the ballot. That summer, a rebellion by southern Democrats led by South Carolina segregationist Strom Thurmond promised to deny Truman electoral votes that his Democratic predecessors could have counted on for a century. Yet, despite all this, Truman didn't just win, he won big- finishing 4.5 points and 114 electoral votes ahead of Dewey.

 

How did Truman manage to turn it all around in six months? Who was Thomas E. Dewey and why couldn't he deliver a win with the wind blowing so hard at his back? And what did southern democrats hope they'd get by giving 39 electoral votes to Strom Thurmond even when he had no chance of winning the national election? Let's find out.

 

In the fourth installment of our Third Party Elections Series, we talk the election of 1948 w/ Jefferson Cowie.

 

Dr. Jefferson Cowie is James G. Stahlman Professor of History at Vanderbilt University. His most recent book, Freedom's Dominion, A Saga of White Resistance to Federal Power (Basic Books) was awarded the 20203 Pulitzer Prize in History. You can hear Jeff discussing Freedom's Dominion in RTN #255 and his other episodes on the 1970s (#115) and The New Deal and its Legacy (#24).  

 

This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

The Presidential election of 1912 was an unusual moment in American history. It featured an embattled incumbent President facing criticism from his former allies. It offered voters a choice between the sitting President and his predecessor. And when it was all done, the two men who had previously won the Presidency found themselves bested by a college professor with just a few years of experience in politics.

 

So why did the predecessor, Teddy Roosevelt, become so critical of the incumbent, William Howard Taft, that he decided to break away from the Republican party to run against him? Why did the Democrats pick relative newcomer Woodrow Wilson to be their Presidential Candidate ? And is 1912 an example of how a third-party candidate can spoil an election? Let's find out.

 

Welcome to The Road To Now's Third Party Elections Series. Today: Part 3- The Election of 1912 with Michael Cullinane.

 

Dr. Michael Patrick Cullinane is Lowman Walton Chair of Theodore Roosevelt Studies at Dickinson State University and the author of multiple books, including Theodore Roosevelt's Ghost: The History and Memory of an American Icon (LSU Press, 2017). You can also hear him on his bi-weekly podcast The Gilded Age and Progressive Era, available anywhere you get The Road to Now.

 

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to check out our previous episodes in this series:

-#1 The Election of 1824 w/ Lindsay Chervinsky

-#2 The Election of 1860 w/ Michael Green

 

This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

The Presidential election of 1860 is one we Americans know well. That election sent 
Abraham Lincoln to the White House, southern enslavers to the exit door, and the United States into a bloody Civil War. Lincoln's leadership in those years and his tragic assassination in the last days of the war propelled the railsplitter into the pantheon of American Presidents.

But sometimes we forget that just a few months before the election, Lincoln looked like a long shot. His experience at the federal level amounted to one term in the House of Representatives. His Republican Party, founded in 1854, was only running its second Presidential campaign. And even in victory, Lincoln's share of the popular vote fell just short of 40%.

How did Abraham Lincoln win a resounding victory in the electoral college with a minority of the popular vote? Why did the Democratic Party, which had dominated politics in the previous decade, lose to an upstart rival? And why, in the midst of a fierce battle over American slavery that ultimately broke the country apart, did John Bell – a third party candidate that you've probably never heard of – have a reasonable chance of winning the 
Presidency by skirting the issue all together? Let's find out.

Welcome to The Road To Now's Third Party Elections Series. Today: Part 2- The Election of 1860 with Michael Green.

Dr. Michael Green is Associate Professor of History at UNLV and the author of multiple 
books on the politics of mid 19th century America, including Lincoln and the Election of 1860 (Southern Illinois University Press, 2011).

This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

The Election of 1824 was a turning point in American history. Long before the fall of 1824, Americans understood that the winner would be the first in America's second generation to hold the Presidency. When the election began, all four viable candidates were technically from the same party. By the time it was over, the election had generated the rivalries and passions that formed the groundwork for a new national party system.

 

How did Andrew Jackson win the most votes in the electoral college and still lose the election? How did John Quincy Adams win the Presidency but ultimately lose the country? And was it all due to a "corrupt bargain" as some critics alleged, or is there more to the story? Let's find out.

 

Welcome to The Road To Now's Third Party Elections Series. Today: Part 1- The Election of 1824 with Lindsay Chervinsky.

 

Dr. Lindsay M. Chervinsky is author of The Cabinet: George Washington and the Creation of an American Institution (Harvard University Press, 2020). Check out her previous appearances on The Road to Now discussing the President's Cabinet (#184) and how Americans have mourned Presidents throughout history (#263).

 

This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

The inalienable right to "the pursuit of happiness" is enshrined in the Declaration of Independence, but what exactly does that phrase mean? While Americans today may associate it with the right to own land, opulence or some other act of acquisition, many prominent founders understood it to mean something quite different. In this episode National Constitution Center President & CEO Jeffrey Rosen returns to the show to give us the full story and discuss his new book The Pursuit of Happiness: How Classical Writers on Virtue Inspired the Lives of the Founders and Defined America. 

The Pursuit of Happiness will be available on February 13 via all major publishers. Click here to pre-order your copy, find out more about the book, and see Jeffrey Rosen's upcoming speaking engagements.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to check out Jeffrey's previous appearance on our show in The Road to Now #211, The Constitution w/ Jeffrey Rosen.

 

Highlighted Resources from the National Constitution Center

–The Interactive Constitution (also available as an app in the apple and android app stores)

–We The People with Jeffrey Rosen podcast (available anywhere you get The Road to Now)

–Educational Video Series

If you're in Philadelphia, you can visit the National Constitution Center, which is located just steps from Independence Hall and the Liberty Bell. Click here to plan your visit!

This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

 

One episode. Two historians/podcasters. Four stories from American history that you've probably never heard. And an unknown number of listeners that we hope will find these stories as fascinating and surprising as we do.

 

Greg Jackson is the creator of History That Doesn't Suck and a Professor at Utah Valley University. Ben Sawyer hosts this podcast and has been teaching history at the university level for over a decade and a half. You might think that at this point they've heard it all, but when you keep digging into history, it just keeps surprising you. In this episode, Greg and Ben each share two stories that they discovered in the last year that they found to be the most fascinating. Enjoy!

 

This is a rebroadcast of The Road to Now #239, which originally aired on June 27, 2022. This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

The FBI has been the subject of criticism and concern since it was founded in 1908, but it has nevertheless become one of the most powerful, stable, and mythologized branches of the Executive Branch of the US government. In this episode, Steve Underhill joins us to discuss the origins of the FBI, the role J. Edgar Hoover played in making the modern Brueau, and how that greater history of the FBI can help us understand how they've approached their seizure of documents from Mar-a-Lago and the subsequent attack from Donald Trump.

Dr. Stephen M. Underhill is Professor and Chair of the Department of Communication Studies at Marshall University, where he studies the rhetoric of law enforcement. His book The Manufacture of Consent: J. Edgar Hoover and the Rhetorical Rise of the FBI was published in 2020.

This is a rebroadcast of RTN #247, which originally aired on September 19, 2022. The original episode was edited by Gary Fletcher. This reair was edited by Ben Sawyer.

Stephen Foster was America's first great published musician. He wrote some of America's great folk songs, including "Oh, Suzanna," "Camptown Races" and "Hard Times Come Again No More," and his music was the inspiration for Paul Green's play "The Stephen Foster Story," which is performed every summer in Bardstown, Kentucky. In this episode we speak with two of the artists involved in that play- Donna Phillips and Johnny Warren- as well as My Kentucky Old Kentucky Home State Park Mansion Supervisor, Richard Blanton, to learn more about Foster's life, their work in preserving his memory, and how it all can help us understand our past.

 

If you're traveling through Kentucky, make sure to check out dates for "The Stephen Foster Story" and visit My Old Kentucky Home Mansion!

 

This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

Worried about money in American politics? We are too, and Jeff Clements is offering up a solution. Jeff is CEO of American Promise, a non-partisan organization dedicated to passing the For Our Freedom amendment to the Constitution, which would differentiate between people and corporations, and allow states to pass their own campaign finance laws. In this episode, he breaks down the history of campaign finance laws, key moments, such as the Citizens United Case, that have brought us to where we are now, and the steps his team have already taken to help add another amendment to the US Constitution.

 

If you want to sign the Citizen Pledge or just learn more about American Promise, make sure to check out AmericanPromise.net.

 

This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.

 

 

Ben & Bob kick off the new year with a conversation over some current events, including the history of New Year's Resolutions (and why Bob doesn't make them) and the 14th Amendment, and Ben shares what he learned about North Carolina history during his holiday road trip from Nashville, TN to Concord, NC to visit his family.

This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

 

Relevant links:

-"Swept Away w/ John Logan & John Gallagher Jr." The Road to Now #219
      -on Apple podcasts
      -on Spotify

-John Pierce, "The Reasons for Secession: A Documentary Study," from American Battlefield Trust (Battlefields.org), Updated October 3, 2023.

-"The Disqualification Clause," What Roman Mars Can Learn About Con Law, episode 78, December 12, 2023.

-Robert Harrell (the Fort Fisher Hermit) at Wikipedia.org.

Dr. Eric Smoodin, film historian at the University of California- Davis and author of Regarding Frank Capra: Audience, Celebrity and American Film Studies, 1930-1960, joins Bob and Ben for the history of the people, the industry, and law that made Frank Capra's 1946 film It's A Wonderful Life into one of America's quintessential Christmas films.

Ben & Bob are taking a few weeks off for the holidays- we'll be back with all new episodes on January 8!

This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.

The suburbs have long been a symbol of American prosperity in the post-WWII era. Yet the contrast between suburban wealth and "inner city" poverty overlooks the stories of those living in suburbia who were unable to reach "the good life." In this episode Ben & Bob talk with Tim Keogh, whose new book In Levittown's Shadow: Poverty in America's Wealthiest Suburb (Univ. of Chicago Press, 2023), explores the history of suburbanization in Long Island, New York, and argues that post-WWII prosperity relied on those impoverished suburbanites who we've since forgotten.

 

Dr. Tim Keogh is assistant professor of history at Queensborough Community College, part of the City University of New York.

 

This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.

As the person responsible for documenting the Obama Administration, Pete Souza spent more time with Barack Obama than almost anyone else, which left him with some deep in sights on Obama and the office of the Presidency. In this episode, Pete joins Bob for a conversation about his work as Chief Official White House Photographer, the state of American politics, and the power of photography. Pete's most recent book, Shade: A Tale of Two Presidents (Little, Brown, & Co, 2018) uses photography to contrast the stark differences between the Presidency of Barack Obama and that of Donald Trump.

 

If you enjoy this conversation, make sure to check out Pete's other appearances on the show in episodes #251 & #151.

 

This is a rebroadcast of RTN #131, which originally aired on June 3, 2019. The original episode was edited by Gary Fletcher and Bob Crawford; this rebroadcast was edited by Ben Sawyer.

 

 

Faith has played an important role in American history, but not always in the ways we'd expect.

In this episode, Andy Polk joins Bob and Ben to explain how politicians, advertising executives and public relations experts bypassed America's religious leaders, ignored theological debates, and dismissed historical evidence to fabricate and sell a story of America's religious origins that served their own political needs. That story remains with us today so, to quote the title of Andy's op-ed in The Tennessean: "When you hear 'In God We Trust', pay attention to what comes next."

 

Dr. Andrew R. Polk is Associate Professor of History at Middle Tennessee State University and the author of the new book, Faith In Freedom: Propaganda, Presidential Politics, and the Making of an American Religion (Cornell University Press, December 2021).

 

This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

 

This is a rebroadcast of RTN #216, which originally aired on December 13, 2021. This rebroadcast was edited by Ben Sawyer.

 

 

Bob welcomes Mark McKinnon for an exit interview about his work as co-producer and co-host of The Circus. Showtime announced last week that after eight seasons and 130 episodes this would be the final season of the political docuseries.

 

Mark reflects on chronicling American political history as it happened from 2016 to 2023, during a turbulent period in American history that includes the rise of Donald Trump's MAGA movement, a once in a century pandemic, and the largest war in Europe since WWII.

 

This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

Monsanto's Past, Our Future w/ Bart Elmore

 

The Monsanto Company officially ceased to exist when it was acquired by Bayer in 2018, but its legacy lives on in courtrooms, factory towns and farms across the globe. Today the company's name is most associated with the herbicide Roundup and genetically modified seeds, but Monsanto also served as a leading producer of Agent Orange during the Vietnam War, an essential supplier of caffeine and saccharin to Coca-Cola in Coke's early years, and the sole US producer of Polychlorinated Biphenyls (PCBs). In short, Monsanto's history is one that will continue to shape the US well into the future.

 

In this episode, Bart Elmore joins Bob and Ben to talk about his new book Seed Money: Monsanto's Past and Our Future (W.W. Norton, 2021), and how a small midwestern company founded in 1901 became an agricultural powerhouse by selling solutions to the problems it helped to create. 

 

Dr. Bartow Elmore is Associate Professor of History at The Ohio State University where he specializes in Global Environmental History and the History of Capitalism. He is also the author of the award-winning book Citizen Coke: The Making of Coca-Cola Capitalism (W. W. Norton, 2015). You can follow him on twitter at @BartElmore.

 

You can hear Bart's other appearances on The Road To Now in episode #140:  Citizen Coke: The History of Coca-Cola w/ Bartow Elmore and #277: Country Capitalism w/ Bartow Elmore.

 

This is a fully re-edited and audio-enhanced rebroadcast of RTN Episode 208, which originally aired on September 27, 2021. This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.

Two things you probably don't know: 1) your favorite museum probably holds human remains and 2) it's completely legal to sell human bones on the internet. Not surprisingly, those two things have caused a lot of controversy. In this episode, Tanya Marsh joins Ben for a conversation about recent developments in the legal-social-political nexus of dead bodies; the controversy surrounding the acquisition and treatment of human remains in American museums and what we'll simply call "the Harvard morgue case."

 

Tanya Marsh is Professor of Law at Wake Forest University, where she specializes in the law of human remains. She is the author of The Law of Human Remains (2015) and co-author (with Daniel Gibson) of Cemetery Law: The Common Law of Burying Grounds in the United States (2015).

 

This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.

 

Articles mentioned in this episode:

Zachary Small, "Facing Scrutiny, a Museum That Holds 12,000 Human Remains Changes Course," New York Times, Oct. 15, 2023.

 

Alyssa Shotwell, "Activists Took Over Museum After Victims' Bodies of the 1985 Philadelphia Bombing Found," The Mary Sue, Sept. 15, 2023.

 

Abby Patkin, "Group indicted for allegedly stealing and selling body parts from Harvard morgue," Boston.com, June 15, 2023.

 

Tanya Marsh, "Is it Illegal to Sell Human Remains," The Conversation, June 30, 2023.

 

 

 

When Vladimir Putin ordered Russia's invasion of Ukraine in February of 2022, he and many others assumed that Russia's "special operation" would end in a quick victory. Eighteen months later, an independent Ukraine stands strong, while Russia's position has grown so weak that Putin has begun working to develop closer ties with North Korea's Kim Jong Un. Why has Ukraine been so resilient, and why has Putin remained committed to a war that has done so much damage to Russia? The answer has everything to do with the ways those on both sides of the conflict understand history.

 

In this episode, historian Serhy Yekelchyk joins Ben to discuss the history of Russia and Ukraine, and how understanding the war on the battlefield requires understanding the conflicting historical narratives embraced by those on both sides.

 

Dr. Serhy Yekelchyk is Professor of History and Slavic Studies at the University of Victoria. A native of Kiev, Serhy has published extensively on Ukranian history, including The Conflict in Ukraine: What Everyone Needs to Know (Oxford University Press, 2nd ed., 2020) and Ukraine: Birth of a Modern Nation (Oxford University Press, 2007).

 

We'd like to give a special thanks to the Strickland family for establishing the Strickland Distinguished Lecture Series at Middle Tennessee State University, which brought Dr. Yekelchyk to MTSU's campus, and to Emily Baran and Lynn Nelson for their help in arranging this recording.

 

This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.  

FBI agent Robert Hanssen was one of the most damaging spies in US history. From 1979 to 2001, Hanssen delivered some of the United States governments' most sensitive secrets to Soviet and Russian agents, who used them to not only undermine US national security, but to identify and execute individuals who were working with the FBI. And despite an awareness of spies working within the FBI, Hanssen managed to operate for more than two decades before finally getting caught.

 

In this episode we speak with CBS News' Major Garrett, whose new podcast Agent of Betrayal: The Double Life of Robert Hanssen, explores Hanssen's decision to spy on the US and how he managed to operate for so long without being caught. A thoroughly researched history with all the turns of a great true crime podcast, we think you'll enjoy Agent of Betrayal, available on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere else you get your podcasts.

 

This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

 

Anita McBride is one of the foremost experts on the legacy of American first ladies. Colleen Shogan served as the 11thArchivist of the United States. Together, they're bringing forward a new project called In Pursuit, which offers up a series of essays on Presidents and First Ladies by some of today's most accomplished historians and political leaders. In this episode, Anita and Colleen join Ben and Bob for a discussion about how the project came together, the exciting (and surprising) list of authors and subjects they've assembled, and why the format they envision holds a lot of promise for public engagement.

 

In Pursuit's first essay- a piece on George Washington written by George W. Bush – will launch on substack on February 16, 2026. Make sure to sign up by clicking here!

This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

From its founding in 1970, Rounder Records was different. What started as the passion project for three New England music lovers who wanted to preserve and proselytize folk and roots music, eventually grew into a record label with an eclectic catalogue featuring long-forgotten bands, promising musicians such as George Thorogood and Allison Krauss, and even an album just called "Hollerin'" (which is exactly what it says it is). Along the way, Rounder Records became indispensable in transforming American folk music. In this episode, we learn more about the history of Rounder Records from music historian David Menconi, author of the new book Oh, Didn't They Ramble: Rounder Records and the Transformation of American Roots Music (UNC Press, 2023).

 

You can hear David Menconi's playlist of key tracks from the Rounder catalogue on Spotify by clicking here.

 

This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

In the late 18th century, tens of millions of buffalo lived in North America. By the mid-1880s, they were on the brink of extinction. For the white settlers who sought to "conquer" the American west, and the Native people whose way of life depended on them, the plight of the American Buffalo was more than a story of one species of animal. As Dayton Duncan writes in the prologue of his new book Blood Memory,  the buffalo has "emerged as an embodiment of the nation's contradictory relationship with the natural world: venerated and mercilessly destroyed, a symbol of both a romanticized frontier and the callous conquest of a continent." In this episode, Dayton joins us for a conversation about the Buffalo (aka American Bison) and how the story of one animal can tell us so much about American history.

 

Dayton Duncan is an Emmy award-winning writer whose most recent collaborations with filmmaker Ken Burns are the book Blood Memory: The Tragic Decline and Improbable Resurrection of the American Buffalo (Alfred A. Knopf, 2023) and the new documentary The American Buffalo, which premieres on your local PBS station on Monday, October 16, 2023 (check your local listings).

 

If you enjoyed this episode, check out our previous conversation with Dayton Duncan in RTN #229 on Benjamin Franklin.

 

This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

What is Americana music? Is it a genre? A community? A refuge? Twenty four years after the founding of the Americana Music Association and thirteen years since the first Grammy was awarded for Best Americana Album, defining "Americana" remains tricky. In our experience, the most common answer has been "you know it when you hear it."

 

However you define it, however, there is one thing everyone agrees on: Emmylou Harris and Rodney Crowell are Americana legends.

 

In this episode, recorded in front of a live audience in Nashville, TN, Emmylou and Rodney discuss their musical careers, how they became associated with Americana music, and what Americana means to them. Bob too shares his musical journey both before and after joining the Avett Brothers and the ways that genre (Americana and otherwise) has been part of that story.

 

Bob, Gary and I would like to thank Paul Lohr at New Frontier Touring for helping us get such incredible guests for the show, Adam Botner at Riverside Revival for making both the live show and the audio on this episode sound so good, Austin Sawyer of Drumming Bird & Annie DiRusso for opening the show with their incredible talent, and everyone who came out to make this such a special night.

 

We'd also like to give a special thanks to Jefferson Cowie for helping us prepare for the show.

 

This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher. Live audio recording and mixing by Adam Botner.

 

Although he passed away a decade ago, Levon Helm is still the voice of Americana music. Always will be, in my opinion. Levon was drummer for The Band, collaborator with Bob Dylan, actor, husband, father, and friend. In his new book, Levon Helm: Rock, Roll, Ramble, author John Barry gives a first-hand account of Levon's struggles with cancer and financial ruin that led to the legendary Midnight Rambles concerts at his home in Woodstock, New York.

On this episode of the Road to Now, Bob celebrates the life of Levon Helm with John, and musician and producer Larry Campbell who has worked with Levon, as well as Bob Dylan, Sheryl Crow, K.D. Lang, and Willie Nelson..­

This is a rebroadcast of RTN #250, which originally aired on October 22, 2022. This rebroadcast was edited by Otto Schroth.

Jason Thomas Gordon spent nearly a decade interviewing some of the greatest vocalists in modern music to find out about their earliest experiences singing, the voices that influenced them growing up, and how they learned to find their own unique voice. In his new book, The Singers Talk: The Greatest Singers of Our Time Discuss the One Thing They're Never Asked About: Their Voices, Jason shares some of the insights from his conversations with more than seventy artists from diverse genres, including Emmylou Harris, Chuck D, Lionel Ritchie, and Ozzy Osbourne, and where they fit within their generation and in the greater history of music.

Jason also shares with St. Jude Children's Research Hospital, which was founded by his grandfather, Danny Thomas. 100% of the royalties from The Singers Talk will go to Music Gives to St. Jude Kids, an organization that Jason created to support St. Jude. Click here to buy the book!

This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

The Kinks are one of the great rock bands of the 20th century and, like all artists, they reflect the times and places they've inhabited. In this episode, we speak with Mark Doyle about his excellent book  The Kinks: Songs of the Semi-Detached (Reaktion Books, 2020) and how the band, their origins, and Ray Davies' lyrics reveal a lot about both the real and imagined spaces of mid-20th Century England.

Dr. Mark Doyle is Professor of History at Middle Tennessee State University, where he specializes in the history of the British Empire. His research and teaching have won him numerous awards including the Stansky Book Prize (co-winner, 2017) and MTSU's Outstanding Teacher Award (2014-15). Ben once described him as "the Patton Oswalt of academic twitter," so we recommend you follow him there at @DrMarkDoyle.  

We're excited to announce that Ben & Bob will be recording a live episode of RTN on the history of Americana music in Nashville on September 18, 2023 w/ guests Emmy Lou Harris, Rodney Crowell and Jefferson Cowie! Click here for tickets. Hope to see you there!

This is a rebroadcast of the Road to Now #169, which originally aired on April 27, 2020. This version was fully re-cut and edited by Ben Sawyer.

The war between the US Army and the Native American confederation during the war of 1812 is a buried story in an often-overlooked event, yet its impact on the history of North America is profound. The leading figures on both sides of the war, Shawnee Chief Tecumseh and US Army General William Henry Harrison, had come of age in the struggles over what is today called the Midwest United States, and both understood that losing the war would mean losing the future they imagined for their people. In this episode, Ben & Bob do a deep dive on the story behind that war with Peter Stark, author of the incredibly accessible new book, Gallop Toward The Sun: Tecumseh and William Henry Harrison's Struggle for the Destiny of a Nation (Random House, 2023).

Peter Stark is an adventure and exploration writer and historian who was previously a correspondent for Outside magazine. His previous book, Young Washington: How Wilderness and War Forged America's Founding Father, was named a finalist for the George Washington Book Prize in 2019. You can follow him on Instagram at @peterstark_adventure_historian.

This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

We're excited to announce that Ben & Bob will be recording a live episode of RTN on the history of Americana music in Nashville on September 18, 2023 w/ guests Emmy Lou Harris, Rodney Crowell and Jefferson Cowie! Click here for tickets. Hope to see you there!

Washington D.C. in the 1850s was a tale of two cities. It was the Capitol city of a rapidly expanding new nation while at the same time ground zero for a politically fractured and divided nation hurtling toward disunion. Standing in the middle of it all was Montgomery C. Meigs, a military engineer who led the construction of two massive public works projects at the same time: the expansion of the Capitol building and an aqueduct to provide water to the residents growing city. Meigs would go on to serve as Quartermaster for the Union Army under Abraham Lincoln. Meigs was an innovator, public servant, and one of the most important patriots of the nineteenth century.

This week Bob welcomes author and journalist Robert O'Harrow Jr. to discuss his 2016 book, The Quartermaster: Montgomery C. Meigs, Lincoln's General, Master Builder of the Union Army.

For thirty years Robert O'Harrow Jr. was an investigative journalist and contributing writer at The Washington Post and was among the first national journalists to cover cybersecurity. In 2017, he part of the team that won a Pulitzer Prize for their coverage of notorious Alabama political Roy Moore.

This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

The recent changes to Florida's education system have gotten nationwide attention, with similar stories playing out across the US. In this episode, Ben & Bob investigate the nature of these reforms, who is behind them, and how they may impact the students and teachers whose daily lives are directly affected by these changes. They are joined by Ana Goñi-Lessan, a Tallahassee-based journalist who covers the Florida legislature for USA Today and Dr. Andrew Polk, a history professor and former high school teacher who directs the history and social studies education initiatives for the Department of History at Middle Tennessee State University.

 

This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher

Ben & Bob have been on the road for most of the summer, so in this episode they catch up to talk about the 100th anniversary of the death of Warren G. Harding, the feedback they got from their conversation on ai, chat gpt and the future of tech w/ Roger McNamee, and their responses to the recent Congressional hearings on UAP (formerly known as UFO) sightings. This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher. Warren G. Harding Sources: Jordyn Phelps, "Ex-President Warren Harding's Love Child Confirmed Through DNA Testing," ABCNews.com, August 13, 2015. "President Warren Harding's Love Letters Open to the Public," News from the Library of Congress, July 29, 2014. Megan Gambino, "Warren Harding's Love Letters Finally Give Us Something to Remember Him For," Smithsonian.com, August 29, 2014. Daniel McCarthy, "Warren Harding's Read Scandal was his Conservatism," New York Post, August 1, 2023. Bryan Pietsch, "Exhume the Body of Warren G. Harding? A Judge Says that Won't be Necessary," New York Times, Dec. 1, 2020. Jordan Michael Smith, "The Letters that Warren G. Harding's Family Didn't Want You to See," New York Times Magazine, July 7, 2014.

John Adams' single term as President has long been cast as a low point in his political career, but Lindsay Chervinsky sees it differently. "George Washington created the Presidency," she writes in her new book Making the Presidency, "but John Adams defined it."

 

In this episode, Lindsay joins us to share why she sees Adams as a crucial figure in transforming an office that had been established for, and created by, George Washington, into a position with the customs and practices that could be passed down through generations. Along the way, Lindsay explains why she thinks we've gotten Adams so wrong (hint: both Jefferson and Hamilton disliked his politics), the crucial role he played in establishing a peaceful transition of power, and how the January 6th insurrection might help us all have a greater appreciation for President John Adams.

 

Dr. Lindsay Chervinsky is the Executive Director of the George Washington Presidential Library and author of the new book Making the Presidency: John Adams and the Precedents That Forged the Republic, which is out September 5th, 2024 from Oxford University Press. You can find out more about her work at her website: lindsaychervinsky.com

 

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to check out Lindsay Chervinsky's  previous RTN appearances on The Road to Now:

 

·      #184: The President's Cabinet

·      #263: Mourning the Presidents

·      #296: The Election of 1824 (Part 1 in our Third Party Elections Series)

 

This episode originally aired as RTN #313 on Sept. 2, 2024. This rebroadcast was edited by Ben Sawyer

 

Slavery was an integral part of the American republic from the moment of independence until the abolition of the so-called "peculiar institution" with the ratification of the 13th Amendment in 1865. The social and economic impact of the slave system, however, are much larger in terms of both time and geography. In this episode, Bob and Ben speak with Edward Baptist about slavery's origins, its evolution, and how enslaved people's work laid the foundation for modern capitalism. He also shares stories of the people who suffered under- and those who profited from- the inhumane system of American slavery.

Dr. Edward E. Baptist is Professor of History at Cornell University and author of The Half Has Never Been Told: Slavery and the Making of American Capitalism (Basic Books, 2014), which won the 2015 Avery O. Craven Prize from the Organization of American Historians and the 2015 Sidney Hillman Prize.

This is an enhanced rebroadcast of RTN #117, which originally aired on January 14, 2019. This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.

George Carlin had a comedy career that spanned half a century, and his take on the US remains relevant more than a decade after his death in 2008. The new HBO documentary George Carlin's American Dream tells Carlin's story as he evolved from a clean-cut comic in the 1950s into the edgy critic who remains one of the most influential comedians of all time. In this episode, Michael Bonfiglio, who directed the film (along with Judd Apatow) and Kliph Nesteroff, a historian of comedy who is featured in the film, join Bob & Ben for a conversation about the life and times of George Carlin.

If you enjoy this episode, check out our previous conversation w/ Michael Bonfiglio in RTN #174 Direction w/ Michael Bonfiglio.

This is a rebroadcast of RTN #237. This rebroadcast was edited by Bob Crawford. 

Roger McNamee has spent decades helping American tech companies secure financing. In the last few years, however, he's become well-known for helping American citizens secure themselves against tech companies. After helping convince Mark Zuckerberg to retain control over Facebook, Roger documented social media's role in amplifying social division in his 2019 New York Times Best Seller Zucked: Waking Up to the Facebook Catastrophe. Recently he's turned his attention to AI, and he has a warning for us: don't believe the hype.

In this conversation Roger joins Bob and Ben to discuss Artificial Intelligence, why he says it's far from the disruptor its proponents have claimed it to be, and how our current assessment of AI actually causes many of the problems that will likely come from this new technology. Roger also shares his solution to better tech regulation, why he's more hopeful about the future of the US than he has been in decades, and his second career in his band Moonalice (click here for music and tour dates). 

If you enjoy this conversation, you can hear our uncut conversation, which includes almost 30 minutes of additional audio, but joining us on Patreon at Patreon.com/TheRoadToNow. Already a Patron? Click here to listen to the uncut episode!

You can hear our previous conversation w/ Roger in RTN #178 "The Facebook Catastrophe w/ Roger McNamee." 

This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

In the years after World War II, Americans moved to the suburbs in search of the peace and safety that many came to equate with the "American Dream." By the end of the 1970s, however, suburbanites had come sense that their privileged was under siege from satanic cults, drug dealers and kidnappers. In this episode, Bob and Ben talk w/ Kyle Riismandel whose new book Neighborhood of Fear examines how Americans responded to the real and perceived threats of suburban life and in doing so, shaped American society and politics in the late-20th Century and beyond.

Dr. Kyle Riismandel is Senior University Lecturer and Interim Director of the Law, Technology, and Culture Program in the Federated Department of History at the New Jersey Institute of Technology/Rutgers-Newark and Director of the Graduate Program in American Studies. His book Neighborhood of Fear: The Suburban Crisis in American Culture, 1975-2001 was published by Johns Hopkins University Press in 2020.

This is a rebroadcast of RTN #194, which originally aired on April 12, 2021.

This episode was oroginally edited by Gary Fletcher. This reair was edited by Ben Sawyer.

 

It's difficult to fathom how Benjamin Franklin accomplished so much in a single lifetime. It's equally difficult to imagine how to take such an incredible life and consolidate it into four hours of documentary film. In this episode, we cover both feats with writer Dayton Duncan and producer David Schmidt, two of the great minds behind Ken Burns' documentary on Benjamin Franklin. Dayton and David discuss Franklin's life, the work that goes into creating a historical documentary film, and their process for deciding the best way to tell an American icon's story in a pair of two-hour episodes.

If you enjoy this episode, check out Ben and Bob's conversation with Ken Burns in episode #191.

If you want to learn more about American indepenence and the July 4th holiday, check out Ben's curated list on Hark audio!

If you want to catch Bob or Ben live, check out The Avett Brothers tour dates here and Ben's standup comedy schedule here!

This is a rebroadcast of RTN #229, which originally aired on April 4, 2022. 

The Allman Brothers' 1971 album At Fillmore East features one of the era's great rock bands at its prime, selling over a million copies despite not producing a single "hit" song. It is also the last album produced by the Allman Brothers prior to the death of the band's founder, Duane Allman. In this episode we speak with Bob Beatty, whose new book Play All Night!: Duane Allman and the Journey to Fillmore East, tells the story behind the creation of the album and how the Allman Brothers pioneered a style that continues to influence rock music today.

Dr. Bob Beatty is a historian and musician who has worked in museums and nonprofits for more than 25 years. You can follow him on twitter and Instagram at @longlivetheabb.

This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.

John Fea is taking on the history of Christianity and American politics in the 21st century. In three volumes. In this (single) episode, we talk about this tremendous task that John is undertaking and also get his thoughts on why the political Christian right came to feel disappointed in the Bush administration, why they later rallied around Donald Trump, and what this might mean for American politics moving forward.

Dr. John Fea is Professor of History at Messiah University & author of multiple books including Was America Founded as a Christian Nation?: A Historical Introduction (Westminster John Knox Press, 2011). He posts regularly on American history, religion, politics, and academic life at his blog, The Way of Improvement Leads Home and hosts the podcast of the same name on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and all podcast players. You can also hear him discuss his book Was America Founded as a Christian Nation in episode #222 and Why the 1776 Report Still Matters in episode #188.

 

This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

Juneteenth, which celebrates the emancipation of enslaved Americans at the end of the Civil War, has gone from a local holiday in Texas to a national day of celebration for many Americans. In this episode we speak with legal scholar and Pulitzer Prize winning historian Annette Gordon-Reed about her new book On Juneteenth and the ways that the holiday, her personal story and the history of the US can help us better understand the world today.

Annette Gordon-Reed is Charles Warren Professor of American Legal History at Harvard University, where she is also the Carol K. Pforzheimer Professor at the Radcliffe Institute for Advanced Study and a professor of history in the university's Faculty of Arts & Sciences. You can follow her on twitter at @Agordonreed.

Update: Since we recorded this episode on June 3, 2021, awareness and celebration of Juneteenth has spread across the country. On June 17th, 2021, President Joe Biden signed legislation that made Juneteenth a federal holiday, and, since 2021, 23 additional states have made Juneteenth an official permanent holiday, bringing the total to 28.

This is a rebroadcast of RTN #198, which originally aired on June 7, 2021. This rebroadcast was edited by Ben Sawyer.

Mark McKinnon is a political advisor, reform advocate, and host of Showtime's The Circus. In this episode he joins Ben & Bob to talk about his work to found the non-partisan group No Labels, which advocates for independent candidates in presidential elections, and what a third-party might mean for the elections of 2024 and beyond.

 

This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.

In the last few years, many on the left have been calling for a "Green New Deal," but we might have already had that. Between 1933 and 1942, the Civilian Conservation Corps enlisted more than three million young men in a project that planted two billion trees, slowed soil erosion on forty million acres of farmland, and enjoyed support across political and geographic divides. In this episode we talk with Neil Maher, author of Nature's New Deal: The Civilian Conservation Corps and the Roots of the American Environmental Movement (Oxford University Press, 2008) about how the CCC helped solidify FDR's New Deal and spread the seeds of environmental activism for generations to come.

Dr. Neil Maher is a Professor of History and Master Teacher in the Federated History Department at the New Jersey Institute of Technology and Rutgers University-Newark. He is also the author of Apollo in the Age of Aquarius (Harvard University Press, 2017). You can find out more about his work at NeilMaher.com.  

This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher

What is Americana music? Is it a genre? A community? A refuge? Twenty four years after the founding of the Americana Music Association and thirteen years since the first Grammy was awarded for Best Americana Album, defining "Americana" remains tricky. In our experience, the most common answer has been "you know it when you hear it."

 

However you define it, however, there is one thing everyone agrees on: Emmylou Harris and Rodney Crowell are Americana legends.

 

In this episode, recorded in front of a live audience in Nashville, TN, Emmylou and Rodney discuss their musical careers, how they became associated with Americana music, and what Americana means to them. Bob too shares his musical journey both before and after joining the Avett Brothers and the ways that genre (Americana and otherwise) has been part of that story.

 

This episode originally aired as RTN #284 on Sept. 25, 2023. This episode was originally edited by Gary Fletcher. Live audio recording and mixing by Adam Botner. This reair was edited by Ben Sawyer.

It's been seven years since Ben & Bob launched the first episode of The Road to Now, so we invited two of our early guests – Doug Heye & Margaret Talev – to join us for a conversation about how things have changed since 2016 and the events of the preceding years that now appear to be most pivotal in creating those changes. Our conversation covers campaign finance reform, social media and the impact ai is already having on American politics.

Doug Heye is a political commentator who previously served as Communications Director for the Republican National Committee and Deputy Chief of Staff for House Majority Leader Eric Cantor. You can follow him on twitter at @DougHeye.

Margaret Talev is Director of Syracuse University's Institute for Democracy, Journalism & Citizenship and Senior Contributor at Axios. You can follow her on twitter at @MargaretTalev.

Enjoy this episode? Join us on Patreon to get the full unedited conversation from this episode and many others. Find out more at Patreon.com/TheRoadToNow. To our Patrons: thank you!

This episode was edited by Gary Fletcher.

The "Amazon economy" seems like something new, but it rests on the physical and intellectual infrastructure built by those who came long before the age of the internet and leaves many of the same marks on the environment. Prominent in this story are five companies- Coca-Cola, Delta Airlines, Walmart, Bank of America, and FexEx-  all of which have global reach and southern roots. In this episode, Bart Elmore joins us to talk about his new book Country Capitalism: How Corporations from the American South Remade our Economy and the Planet (UNC Press, 2023), and how understanding the history of American business can help us address the environmental challenges that are undeniably facing humanity today.

Dr. Bartow Elmore is Associate Professor of History and a core faculty member of the Sustainability Institute at The Ohio State University. In addition to Country Capitalism, he is also the author of  Citizen Coke: The Making of Coca-Cola Capitalism (W. W. Norton, 2015) and Seed Money: Monsanto's Past and Our Food Future (W. W. Norton, 2021). You can hear his discuss these books in RTN episode 140 and episode 208 respectively. Bart is also a 2022 winner of the Dan David Prize.

This episode was edited by Ben Sawyer.  

Today's Republican party looks a lot different than it did just a few decades ago, but it rests on many of the same organizations and ideologies that formed the modern conservative movement in the 1970s. In this episode, Rick Perlstein joins us for a conversation about his newest book Reaganland: America's Right Turn, 1976-1980 and how Ronald Reagan, Orrin Hatch and other prominent Republicans were able to harness the social and political forces of the 1970s to form the modern GOP.

Rick Perlstein is the award-winning author of multiple New York Times bestsellers, including Reaganland (Simon & Schuster, 2020), Nixonland: The Rise of a President and the Fracturing of America (Scribner, 2009) and Before the Storm: Barry Goldwater and the Unmaking of the American Consensus (Bold Type Books, 2009), as well as a board member at InTheseTimes.com. You can follow him on twitter at @RickPerlstein.

In this conversation we also discussed Rick's recent article "This Is Us: Why the Trump Era Ended in Violence," The New Republic, January 20, 2021.

This is an edited rebroadcast of RTN #199, which originally aired on June 14, 2021. Both the original episode and this rebroadcast were edited by Gary Fletcher.