Welcome to the Napa Legal Podcast, where we discuss religious liberty from the perspective of faith-based nonprofits.
In this special episode, recorded at the Good Counselor Project capstone retreat, Frank DeVito sits down with John Bursch, Vice President for Appellate Advocacy at Alliance Defending Freedom, to preview what could be the biggest religious liberty term at the Supreme Court since 2022.
They cover three cases the Court has agreed to hear. In St. Mary Catholic Parish v. Roy, Colorado excluded Catholic preschools from its universal preschool program because of their beliefs about human sexuality. In Daniel Grant’s case, an Ohio city told an Orthodox Jewish man he needed a zoning permit to host Sabbath prayer in his own home. And in International Partners for Ethical Care, the Ninth Circuit ruled that parents lacked standing to challenge a Washington law requiring youth shelters to help runaway minors obtain gender transition treatment in secret.
Frank and John also highlight cases still awaiting Supreme Court action, from the Olympus Spa case to a Washington wrestler forced to compete against a male opponent, and close with Union Gospel Mission of Yakima and the threat state employment laws pose to religious organizations that hire according to their faith.
Chapter markers
0:00 Intro
0:52 Guest John Bursch of Alliance Defending Freedom
1:15 Watershed years: Kennedy v. Bremerton and Carson v. Makin
1:50 Why cultural conflicts end up at the Supreme Court, and religious liberty’s winning streak
2:45 St. Mary v. Roy: Colorado’s universal preschool program
3:58 Discrimination rules as a workaround to Carson v. Makin
5:18 The Court declines to revisit Employment Division v. Smith
6:59 The broad theory: applying the Carson line of cases
8:14 The narrow theory: secular exceptions under Tandon and Fulton
9:51 What exclusion means for Catholic families
10:39 Daniel Grant’s case: a permit to pray in your own home
13:03 The Williamson County ripeness doctrine in the Sixth Circuit
14:27 How local zoning laws burden people of faith
14:56 ADF and Orrick partner on the case
16:38 The Cleveland Browns comparison and man-on-the-street interviews
17:57 Lisa Blatt versus Josh Rosenkranz at oral argument
18:29 International Partners for Ethical Care: Washington’s shelter secrecy law
19:35 Mirabelli and the Ninth Circuit’s standing holding
22:01 Pending petitions: the Olympus Spa case
24:37 Obergefell and how language distorts the discrimination debate
26:33 Polk: a Virginia teacher, pronouns, and parental notice
28:13 Challenging Locke v. Davey
29:43 Perry: a vaccine exemption for a virtual school student
31:25 The Fourth Circuit’s first-of-its-kind holding on Tandon comparators
32:38 A Washington wrestler’s emergency application
35:06 Why combat sports make the stakes clearest
35:44 Minnesota softball and Connecticut track
37:11 Why the fight over women’s sports isn’t over in blue states
37:44 Union Gospel Mission of Yakima at the en banc Ninth Circuit
39:13 The ministerial exception versus the co-religionist doctrine
39:59 A messy en banc argument
40:55 Employment laws without religious exemptions: Washington, Michigan, and the Fourth Circuit
42:37 Why this matters for organizations like Napa Legal
44:04 Michigan’s law protecting abortion history in hiring
45:07 Wrap-up
Lawyers: applications for the Good Counselor Project, Napa Legal’s fellowship for Christian attorneys, are open until December 1.
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The Napa Legal Podcast, October 27, 2026
