Ryan Kimler is the founder of Net Profit CFO and host of the Net Profit Podcast. He and his team help law firm owners understand their numbers, make better business decisions, and build more profitable and sustainable practices by using accounting and finance to give firm leaders clear information they can act on, so their businesses stay financially healthy and have the resources to grow.

Law school teaches lawyers how to practice law, not how a law firm makes money. Many attorneys work hard, bill hours, build relationships, and still don't really know how the business side works. The truth is, partners and firm leaders usually want younger lawyers to understand this—they just don't always talk about it unless someone asks.

When you understand how the money moves through a firm, everything gets clearer. You can see what makes a matter profitable, what slows things down, and how your work contributes to the bigger picture. It also gives you insight into the decisions that drive compensation and advancement.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge, Elise talks with fractional CFO Ryan Kimler about the business of law and why every lawyer should understand it. They break down how law firms actually make profit, why busy doesn't always mean profitable, how pricing and staffing decisions affect results, and how lawyers at every level can use financial information to make smarter choices about their careers.

2:18 – Why good legal work doesn't automatically translate into compensation

4:12 – The silent profit killers: time leakage, realization, and collection rates

8:26 – Two lawyers bill the same hours. One generates more profit

12:13 – Lawyers get promoted into leadership without ever learning the business of law

15:02 – Why firm leaders are relieved when associates ask how the business works

18:16 – What financially healthy firms track that struggling firms ignore

21:17 – Lawyers lose money doing their own admin work instead of delegating

27:21 – A simple way to know when it is time to hire help

30:39 – The pricing mistake that leaves money on the table at many firms

35:20 – Ryan's biggest advice for lawyers who want to earn more

Net Profit CFO | LinkedIn

Ryan Kimler on LinkedIn

The Net Profit Podcast

Get connected with the coaching team: hello@thelawyersedge.com

The Lawyer's Edge

Today's episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women's Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month business development program created BY women lawyers for women lawyers. Ignite is a carefully designed business development program containing content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are committed to becoming rainmakers AND supporting the retention and advancement of other women in the profession.

If you are interested in either participating in the program or sponsoring a woman in your firm to enroll, learn more about Ignite and sign up for our registration alerts by visiting www.thelawyersedge.com/ignite.

Lisa Smith is a principal in the Washington, D.C. office of Fairfax Associates. She advises leading law firms domestically and internationally on strategy development, mergers, management and governance, partner compensation and structure issues, and financial and operational performance and management. She has been advising law firms for more than 35 years.

She is a frequent speaker at industry events and webinars and recently appeared on the TV show Wall Street Week talking about the potential for private equity investment in U.S. law firms.

The legal profession is in a period of meaningful evolution. Firms are exploring new ways to grow, serve clients, and create sustainable operations. Consolidation is increasing, alternative staffing models are expanding, and clients are more sophisticated buyers than ever before. These changes are opening the door to fresh approaches in how firms compete and deliver value.

For law firm leaders, it also means making smarter decisions about compensation, investment, and long-term positioning. The firms that are succeeding aren't reacting to the market—they're planning for it. They're thinking carefully about scale, profitability, and how to structure themselves for continued success.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge, Elise talks with Lisa Smith of Fairfax Associates about what these shifts mean in practice. They discuss the drivers behind consolidation, how firms are restructuring to stay competitive, what private equity could mean for the industry, and why thoughtful strategy—not panic—is what separates firms that adapt from firms that fall behind.

2:15 — The three trends shaping the legal industry right now

7:22 — Why even well-established firms are open to mergers

10:42 — How AI and technology are changing what clients send to outside counsel

12:08 — The risk for smaller firms with highly specialized practices

13:55 — What the UK's private equity model could signal for U.S. law firms

16:22 — How MSOs work and why firms are considering them

19:02 — The tradeoffs of moving to an MSO structure

24:25 — Signs that firms are already adjusting their strategy

25:24 — How partner compensation models are evolving

34:18 — What makes a strategic plan realistic instead of aspirational

36:47 — Lisa's advice to leaders who want to stay ahead of change

Fairfax Associates | LinkedIn

Lisa Smith on LinkedIn

Merger Press Releases

Get connected with the coaching team: hello@thelawyersedge.com

The Lawyer's Edge

Today's episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women's Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month business development program created BY women lawyers for women lawyers. Ignite is a carefully designed business development program containing content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are committed to becoming rainmakers AND supporting the retention and advancement of other women in the profession.

If you are interested in either participating in the program or sponsoring a woman in your firm to enroll, learn more about Ignite and sign up for our registration alerts by visiting www.thelawyersedge.com/ignite.

Charlie Jimerson is the founder and CEO of Jimerson Birr, a Florida-based business law firm with a national reputation for litigation, regulatory, and transactional work. He's also a U.S. Air Force veteran, a board-certified construction law attorney, and a widely recognized leader in the legal and business communities. Under his leadership, the firm has been repeatedly honored for its workplace culture, growth, and client service while representing various businesses of all sizes and scales as their go-to counsel for legal matters and comprehensive legal expertise, both inside and outside the courtroom. 

From drafting and enforcing contracts, providing grounded executive-level advice, and collecting money owed, Charlie's extensive experience spans all phases of litigation, including alternative dispute resolution, settlement negotiations, and complex commercial cases. His career is distinguished by a rich tapestry of accomplishments that mirror his unwavering commitment to securing favorable outcomes for his clients and reflect a focus on service, quality, and results.

Prior to founding Jimerson Birr, Charlie honed his skills and expertise at prominent  Jacksonville-based commercial litigation and construction law boutique law firms. He currently resides in Ortega with his wife, Ashley, their two children, and their Italian Greyhound dog, Olive.

As a young lawyer, Charlie Jimerson had his pick of opportunities and began his career at a traditional Biglaw firm. But it didn't take long for him to feel disenchanted with what he saw—an industry clinging to outdated models that didn't truly serve clients. Not even four years into practice, Charlie founded Jimerson Birr as a values-driven law firm committed to doing things differently.

He believed law firms could grow by focusing on service, quality, and results instead of billable hours and burnout. That conviction shaped his approach to building a practice centered on client needs, predictable pricing, and strong culture. By replacing outdated habits with clear processes and accountability, Charlie set out to prove that sustainable growth is possible without sacrificing relationships or outcomes.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge podcast, Elise talks with Charlie about how rethinking the billable hour can fuel law firm growth. He shares how subscription pricing and disciplined processes create more value for clients, how AI can enhance efficiency without replacing human judgment, and why culture and leadership are essential to long-term success. Charlie also explains why he sees pressure as a privilege and why "the way it's always been done" is the most dangerous mindset holding firms back.

2:06 - The inspiration for Jimerson Birr's founding and identity

5:21 - Problems with the billable hours model of many legal organizations

9:12 - What's necessary for the legal industry to start retreating from the billable hour crutch

14:37 – Value-based and subscription pricing around four core areas and three package tiers

21:15 – Why there should still be room made for the billable hour when necessary

24:56 - Three biggest things learned from client surveys that impacted changes within the firm 

27:43 - How Charlie uses AI to enhance his organization's practice 

32:20 - Hiring principles and cultural philosophy of Jimerson Birr

34:45 – Why Charlie views pressure as a privilege and its impact on his choices

37:28 - Essentials to focus on and the mentality law firm leaders need to reject so the industry can evolve

Jimerson Birr | LinkedIn | Facebook | Instagram | Youtube

Follow Charlie B. Jimerson on LinkedIn

Process! How Discipline and Consistency Will Set You and Your Business Free by Mike Paton and Lisa González

Books by Gino Wickman

Get connected with the coaching team: hello@thelawyersedge.com

The Lawyer's Edge

Today's episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women's Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month business development program created BY women lawyers for women lawyers. Ignite is a carefully designed business development program containing content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are committed to becoming rainmakers AND supporting the retention and advancement of other women in the profession.

If you are interested in either participating in the program or sponsoring a woman in your firm to enroll, learn more about Ignite and sign up for our registration alerts by visiting www.thelawyersedge.com/ignite.

Toya Gavin is the Founder of Legally Bold, a coaching and consulting firm for lawyers, and she's the Founder of Woke Up Worthy, a life coaching firm for women of color. Toya is also part of The Lawyer's Edge coaching team. On top of these accomplishments, Toya is the Founder of the Law Office of Toya Gavin, which serves the needs of micro-businesses.

In 2014, Toya attended a conference that helped push her to live her dreams. She describes this conference as "a leap of faith," which led to her quitting her job, starting her own law practice, and becoming a certified coach. Through the years, Toya realized just how momentous that leap was and now helps others do the same. According to Toya, it's important to seek support in navigating your goals, working through your fears, and taking that leap (even if you don't know all the steps in between). 

Toya holds a JD from the George Washington University Law School and a Bachelor of Science in industrial engineering from Rutgers University. She's licensed to practice law in New York and New Jersey and has been featured in outlets such as ABA Magazine, DC Entrepreneur, the Generation Why Podcast, and the Former Lawyer Podcast.

Many lawyers know what they want — whether it's making partner, changing firms, or finding harmony between their personal and professional lives. However, lawyers can get stuck in the "how" phase, wondering what steps they need to take to reach their goals. Caught in the fear of the unknown, people might find themselves stuck in a rut and no closer to achieving their objectives. So how do you work through it?  

Toya Gavin is here to share her expert tips on navigating your goals and reaching your biggest dreams without getting caught up in the "how." According to Toya, you don't need to work towards your goals alone. Hiring a coach is one of the best ways to follow through on your plans, hold yourself accountable, and see progress in achieving your objectives. Working with a coach gives you the space and time to focus on yourself and build a fulfilling career that aligns with your personal values.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman is joined by Toya Gavin, Founder of Legally Bold and Woke Up Worthy, to talk about the benefits of hiring a coach. Toya describes her transition into coaching, why lawyers should use a coach to set goals and work through challenges, and why you don't need to have every step planned out before taking a leap of faith.    

Melanie Lippman is a New York-based image coach and personal branding consultant. She's also the Founder and CEO of Melanie Lippman Style Consulting, where she helps people express confidence with style.

Melanie has received multiple degrees from the Fashion Institute of Technology (FIT), and she studied fashion merchandising and cosmetic fragrance marketing in college. Later in life, she had a transformative internship in Marie Claire's fashion closet and a successful career selling fine jewelry wholesale to stores, including Saks Fifth Avenue and Neiman Marcus.

When it comes to the legal industry, Melanie helps attorneys stop the stress and overwhelm of getting dressed and instead use their style as a tool to attract clients, build connections, and achieve next-level visibility. Her philosophy is simple: when you're confident in your appearance, you can show up and conquer anything the day brings you.

Does it really matter what you wear to work? When you're a busy lawyer focused on your job, it can be tempting to give up shopping and throw on whatever's in your closet. In truth, your clothing sends a message to your colleagues and clients. 

According to style consultant Melanie Lippman, clothing is the largest form of nonverbal communication. Whether intentional or not, your style sends a message. So, you want to make sure that you're putting effort into your style to send the right message. Luckily, Melanie has some valuable tips to help you figure out your style, find what flatters you, and develop your personal brand.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman is joined by Melanie Lippman, the Founder and CEO of Melanie Lippman Style Consulting, to talk about shaping your personal style. Melanie shares the benefits of putting effort into your wardrobe, why style is more important than trends, and tips for building confidence through your clothing.

Lori Mihalich-Levin is the Founder and CEO of Mindful Return, a movement that helps new parents navigate the uncertain terrain of working parenthood. Currently, 92 employers offer the Mindful Return program to support employees in their transition to working parenthood.

Additionally, Lori is the author of Back to Work After Baby: How to Plan and Navigate a Mindful Return from Maternity Leave and created the Mindful Return Maternity Leave E-Course. She also co-hosts the Parents At Work podcast and is a healthcare lawyer in private practice at her own firm, The GME Group, PLLC. Lori's thought leadership on issues related to working parenthood has been featured in publications including Forbes, The Washington Post, and New York Times Parenting.

As a working parent of two boys, Lori understands the need for a supportive community of working parents — especially when you're first transitioning from parental leave. Her mission is to help parents feel empowered to make thoughtful choices and be present both with their babies and in their careers.

Working parents wear many hats and often struggle to find the support needed to thrive in both their personal life and professional career. After transitioning back to work after parental leave, numerous parents deal with the guilt of leaving their children, logistical challenges of finding childcare, and a lack of confidence that they can show up the way they used to at work. Can new parents find success in both areas of their life without sacrifice?

When Lori Mihalich-Levin was a new mom transitioning back into her legal career, she found many resources focused on the baby but nothing about personal and professional identity transition. Desperate for help as a working parent, Lori created her own program, Mindful Return, which helps new parents gain support from other working parents and find the resources needed to grow in all areas of their life. But Mindful Return doesn't stop with the parents — Lori and her team are on a mission to help employers retain new parent talent and keep their employees' careers on an upward trajectory.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman sits down with Lori Mihalich-Levin, the Founder and CEO of Mindful Return, to talk about working parenthood and parental leave. Lori discusses the importance of destigmatizing parental leave for both men and women, how employers can help new parents navigate the transition, and how Mindful Return is helping both new and experienced parents succeed in their personal and professional life.

Kori Carew is the Chief Inclusion and Diversity Officer at Seyfarth, an international Am Law 100 firm with more than 900 attorneys. In this role, she leads efforts to expand the firm's culture of inclusion and advance diversity within their partnership. 

Using advocacy and organizational strategy to address structural barriers to diversity in the workplace, Kori brings an incisive voice, unapologetic questioning of the status quo, and a lifelong fascination with human potential to her work. She's a nationally sought-after speaker on topics of diversity, inclusion, belonging, inclusive leadership, talent engagement and development, authenticity, and leveraging power. On top of that, Kori is a self-described disrupter, womanist, and social justice advocate. 

Kori has a powerful TEDx Talk, "Just Belonging: Finding the Courage to Interrupt Bias." According to Kori, the path to racial healing, justice, diversity, and inclusion requires courage. And choosing courage to create belonging is not an easy task — it's a practice and process. 

A firm's team is likely comprised of people with diverse backgrounds, experiences, races, genders, and classes. But we often fail to recognize that the differences between people don't necessarily indicate different needs — it just means that the way we create a sense of inclusion might be different. So, as a leader, how do you create an inclusive environment? 

Kori Carew says that inclusive leadership requires courageous conversations. It calls upon leaders to be in a constant state of curiosity and learning, understanding that we won't always know everything and we'll often make mistakes. Inclusive leadership is also about being vulnerable, listening to your people, and seeking to understand their perspectives. By choosing courage over comfort, leaders can address obstacles and create high-performing, well-cared-for teams.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman is joined by Kori Carew, the Chief Diversity and Inclusion Officer at Seyfarth, to talk about having courageous conversations around diversity, equity, and inclusion. Kori discusses the trends and challenges she sees in the space, the important traits of inclusive leadership, and why it's crucial to have conversations about race, differences, and inclusion. 

Roy Sexton is the Director of Marketing at Clark Hill, a law firm with more than 650 lawyers spread across 27 offices in the US, Ireland, and Mexico. Roy is also the 2022 President-Elect of the Legal Marketing Association (LMA) and will become the President in 2023, previously serving as a board member, content expert, and presenter. 

Roy has a passion for solving problems, improving culture, facilitating business growth, and collaborating on long-term strategies. He has nearly 20 years of experience in marketing, communications, and strategic planning across a range of industries. Roy has also written two books, Reel Roy Reviews volumes one and two, which is a compilation of his essays and reviews on movies and cinema.

After supporting the rebranding of Clark Hill, Roy realized just how magical the combination of branding and culture development can be. In the process of branding, you're uniting company values, the customer experience, and a diverse team, which, in turn, helps develop the true, authentic culture of your organization.

Branding (and rebranding) requires more than just updating a logo. Likewise, culture requires more than just checking off a box and labeling your firm as diverse. So, how do you effectively develop your brand and culture in a way that unites all segments of your law firm?

According to Roy Sexton, affirming your brand has the magical power of galvanizing your culture and showing clients your true, authentic selves. First, you must take stock of who you are now and who you want to become. Once you gain clarity in those areas, you can craft your messaging and unite your culture in an open and transparent way. 

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman sits down with Roy Sexton, Director of Marketing at Clark Hill and President-Elect of the Legal Marketing Association. Roy discusses the process of branding and rebranding, how it's connected to culture, and why these are key areas for creating a cohesive firm. He also shares marketing and social media tips and the powerful theater lessons that apply to business.      

Nora Riva Bergman is a business coach, Certified Practice Advisor at Atticus, and the Founder of Real Life Practice, where she helps attorneys balance their life and law practice. Nora has practiced as an employment law attorney and certified mediator and has served as a Professor at both Stetson University College of Law and the University of South Florida, teaching courses in alternative dispute resolution and negotiation. As a licensed attorney for more than 25 years, she understands the frustrations attorneys face every day and is committed to helping them change their lives for the better. 

Chelsy Castro is the CEO and Founder of Castro Jacobs Psychotherapy and Consulting (CJPC). As a lawyer-turned-psychotherapist, she's an expert in lawyer well-being who teaches individuals and organizations how to build the skills they need to achieve their goals in a healthy, productive way. Chelsy's publications and trainings focus on science-based skills and strategies for improving performance and increasing well-being in high-profit, high-pressure professions.

Nora and Chelsy are Co-authors of the book 50 Lessons for Happy Lawyers: Boost Wellness. Build Resilience. Yes, You Can!, which is the most recent book in Nora's 50 Lessons for Lawyers series. This book raises awareness on mental health and well-being challenges in the legal profession and equips individual lawyers with the skills needed to take action and live a happier life. 

A 2016 study from the Hazelden Betty Ford Foundation shows that 28% of lawyers struggle with some level of depression, and 19% demonstrate symptoms of anxiety. On top of that, a Legal Trends Report from 2018 tells us that 75% of lawyers frequently work outside of business hours, and 39% said that working long hours has affected their personal lives. Since the emergence of the pandemic, these numbers are likely higher. So what can we do, whether on an individual or institutional level, to support lawyers' mental health and well-being?

Nora Riva Bergman and Chelsy Castro believe lawyers deserve to lead happy, healthy, and resilient lives. That's why they co-authored the book 50 Lessons for Happy Lawyers, where they share tools and strategies to help lawyers support their health and well-being. Traditionally, the idea of lawyers' physical and mental health has been swept under the rug, but now, Nora and Chelsy believe that the legal profession is at an inflection point — and they're helping create change one small step at a time. 

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman is joined by Nora Riva Bergman, Certified Practice Advisor at Atticus and Founder of Real Life Practice, and Chelsy Castro, Founder of Castro Jacobs Psychotherapy and Consulting (CJPC). Nora and Chelsy share why they wrote 50 Lessons for Happy Lawyers, their favorite lessons from the book, and strategies lawyers can use to invest in their well-being and create lasting change.

Mary Balistreri is the President and CEO of More Business Today (MBT), ​​which offers coaching, professional development programs, and facilitation services. Mary is a certified Conversational Intelligence (C-IQ) Coach, a Diversity to Belonging Facilitator, and a key member of the coaching team at The Lawyer's Edge. 

Mary has more than 20 years of experience in law as an internal business development and leadership coach. She was the first Director of Business Development at an AmLaw 200 firm, where she helped create industry teams, client service teams, a target marketing program, and a coaching program, among many other initiatives.

The heart of Mary's coaching practice lies in supporting individuals and teams to achieve their potential and build belonging into business. She has witnessed the power of conversation to clarify, communicate, and create improvements. Mary says that as long as clients are committed and ready to put the work in, coaching can transform their lives.

According to Mary Balistreri, the #1 most successful tactic to improve individuals and teams is coaching. Although Mary is a coach, this isn't a self-fulfilling prophecy. Throughout her 20 years of experience, she's witnessed countless transformations — both for the individual and their business. 

In Mary's very first year of coaching, she took on 13 attorneys who were drowning in work. Of those 13, five of them became top rainmakers in their firm. Since then, she's worked with numerous attorneys and other professionals who embraced the power of coaching to help them achieve their loftiest goals. But what makes coaching so beneficial? It comes down to three things: individual solutions, accountability, and a goal-centered approach that propels you into action.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman talks with Mary Balistreri, President and CEO of More Business Today (MBT) and Coach at The Lawyer's Edge. Mary discusses the benefits of coaching and how it differs from other counseling, the impact conversations can have on business, and why commitment is key to beginning your coaching journey. 

Kimya Johnson is the Chief Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Officer and Principal of the Corporate Diversity Counseling Practice Group at Jackson Lewis. With nearly 1,000 lawyers across 63 offices, Jackson Lewis is one of the largest national law firms specializing in the practice of labor and employment law. 

As the firm's Chief Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Officer, Kimya leads DEI efforts in alignment with the firm's strategic plan and the realization of DEI as a core firm value. With almost 20 years of practice as an employment lawyer, Kimya knows how to develop and implement strategies to provide legally compliant, impactful, and organizationally integrative DEI action plans.

Among many awards, Kimya was recognized as an Influential Woman by the NAACP Philadelphia Chapter and a Wonder Woman in Business. She also received a Multicultural Leadership Award from the National Diversity Council. Kimya earned a BA in Psychology from Spelman College, an MA from the Teachers College at Columbia University, and her JD from Case Western Reserve University School of Law. She then went on to earn a Certificate in Diversity and Inclusion Management from Cornell University School of Industrial and Labor Relations.

Diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) efforts are evolving, and it's crucial that your firm keeps up. But DEI is not one-size-fits-all, and it's not just a series of programs. So, how can your firm figure out what works — and avoid what doesn't work — when it comes to DEI initiatives?

As a Chief Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Officer and an employment lawyer who helps others realize their DEI visions, Kimya Johnson knows the best practices for building and expanding DEI initiatives. She says that first, you must assess your firm's current position. Next, you need to develop a strategy that addresses the goals and vision of your firm. What are you looking to achieve, and how does your strategy advance your people and business? The final step is putting people in place who marry their professional skills with their passion for DEI.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman is joined by Kimya Johnson, Chief Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Officer and Principal of the Corporate Diversity Counseling Practice Group at Jackson Lewis. Kimya talks about changing trends in law firms, how to measure success with your DEI initiatives, and why action and authenticity are so integral to your initiative.

James (Jim) Persing is a former practicing lawyer who has been coaching professionals for more than 20 years. He supports clients through a collaborative process of designing, effectuating, and sustaining change.

Jim married his law experience with his passion for coaching clients in a variety of professions to help others envision, achieve, and maintain success. Much of his work focuses on helping early and mid-career professionals develop their leadership vision and produce positive action. As someone who launched and ran a successful law practice, Jim is a specialist in helping other solo and small-firm attorneys succeed.

In addition to working in the legal profession, Jim works with clients in healthcare, finance, and government agencies. He is a member of the coaching team at The Lawyer's Edge, and he's also partnered with BetterUp Coaching, Thrive Partners UK, The Wall Street Coach, Wellspan Health, and more.

Law school doesn't teach you how to run a practice, develop your business skills, or foster relationships with other lawyers and leaders in your industry. For many lawyers, you have to learn these skills on your own while balancing your law practice, your personal life, and everything in between.

The truth is that you don't have to go it alone. Working with a coach can help you build on opportunities, see things from a different perspective, and sustain the success you desire. Instead of working tirelessly on your own, a coach brings an unbiased opinion to help you get clear on where you want to be, how to get there, and how to see continued success. 

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman is joined by professional coach Jim Persing to talk about the benefits of working with a coach. Jim shares how a coach can help you shift your perspective, illuminate blindspots, and strategize a plan of action. He also discusses the importance of integrating wellness practices into your life, getting intentional with your goals, and tackling new opportunities.

Stefanie Marrone is the Fractional Marketing Director of Social Media and Marketing and Business Development Strategist at The Social Media Butterfly. In these roles, she helps law firms, individual lawyers, accounting and recruiting firms, and other business professionals build their brands and generate revenue.       

As an outsourced Chief Marketing Officer and Social Media Consultant, Stefanie helps small and mid-sized law firms find their unique voices and tell their story. Her expertise derives from previous work at some of the most prominent law firms in the world, where she developed and executed internal and external communication strategies, including media relations, branding, multi-channel content, marketing, and thought leadership campaigns.

Stefanie believes that many law firms are only scratching the surface of content marketing and social media. From her 20-year legal marketing career, she knows how both big and small law firms operate — and how they can improve strategies to get things done efficiently. She has particular experience in helping companies effectively utilize social media platforms such as LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram for business development, revenue generation, and visibility. 

Compared to big law firms, small and mid-sized firms have fewer resources, deals, staff, and matters to write about for awards. So, as a smaller law firm, how can you effectively market yourself and compete with the big firms — even when you have fewer in-house experts and resources? 

Social media and marketing expert Stefanie Marrone says you need to get creative and strategic. Think about your goals as a lawyer or a law firm and shape your strategy around that. You don't need to be a content machine and post daily on all social channels, but you do need to put your name out there. To elevate your brand visibility, it's important to find where your clients are, start building your profile, and cultivate your network.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman is in conversation with Stefanie Marrone, Fractional Marketing Director of Social Media and Marketing and Business Development Strategist at The Social Media Butterfly. Stefanie discusses how small and mid-sized law firms can best market themselves, tips for creating content that reaches your audience, and the top tools and channels to build your professional brand. 

Aaron Y. Strauss is one of the leading legal advisors in the commercial real estate industry, providing insight and guidance on billions of dollars' worth of transactions during his career. As founder and managing partner of A.Y. Strauss, he has positioned the firm as one of the region's most respected legal organizations for commercial real estate owners, lenders, and sponsors, serving the needs of its clients with utmost care, integrity, and transparency.

Aaron is responsible for establishing the firm's long-term strategy and vision, overseeing a culture of excellence and respect that recruits, retains, and supports a nationally-recognized team of attorneys and business professionals. A dedicated dealmaker and connector, he strives to identify and facilitate commercial real estate and other opportunities for clients and valued contacts. In 2021, he launched The Dealmakers' Edge with A.Y. Strauss podcast, highlighting the stories, successes, and struggles behind major commercial real estate investors.

Prior to founding A.Y. Strauss, Aaron practiced for several years at an international law firm in New York and a prominent New Jersey-based law firm.

What happens when you get off the beaten path to build something new? It takes an ambitious mind to forego the traditional path of building a legal practice to build a business platform with national reach.

Aaron Strauss left Biglaw to found and manage A.Y. Strauss, LLC, a rapidly growing entrepreneurial law firm that represents clients in multiple practice areas. Under his leadership, the organization has earned a reputation for delivering thoughtful, strategic counsel with the responsiveness and care of a boutique practice. He's also developed a well-earned reputation for his devotion to connecting and creating growth opportunities for others.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge podcast, Elise speaks with Aaron about leading a law firm by prioritizing hiring the right people, fostering a strong culture, expanding practice areas based on client needs, and engaging in practices to manage the stresses and complexities of leadership.

2:15 - The driver behind more than 40% growth in Aaron's firm over the past year

4:58 - The major challenge of recruiting and retaining legal talent 

8:49 - Natural rainmakers and relationship nurturers as both being critical to a firm's success

11:29 - Addition of immigration, cannabis, and family law as new practice areas

15:30 - How Aaron balances his different roles and the most rewarding aspects of the job

20:38 - The challenges of leadership in relationship management and decision-making

26:27 - How mental resilience helps Aaron manage the stresses of his job

29:03 - Self-practices that Aaron uses to stay grounded and effective as a leader

33:14 - The value of shifting focus from "I" to "We" and pausing to acknowledge accomplishments

35:36 - Insights and influences from guests on Aaron's podcast, The Dealmakers' Edge

A.Y. Strauss, LLC | LinkedIn

The Dealmakers' Edge Podcast | "Leadership Lessons for Dealmakers with Elise Holtzman"

Get connected with the coaching team: hello@thelawyersedge.com

The Lawyer's Edge

Today's episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women's Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month business development program created BY women lawyers for women lawyers. Ignite is a carefully designed business development program containing content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are committed to becoming rainmakers AND supporting the retention and advancement of other women in the profession.

If you are interested in either participating in the program or sponsoring a woman in your firm to enroll, learn more about Ignite and sign up for our registration alerts by visiting www.thelawyersedge.com/ignite.

Constance Beverley is the CEO of the Share Winter Foundation, a grantmaking organization working to improve the lives, health, and fitness of youth through winter sports. Share Winter Foundation is also working to create a more diverse, inclusive, and welcoming winter sports community. 

Before joining the Share Winter Foundation, Constance was an attorney on Wall Street, representing large financial firms for more than six years. She then went on to work with other snow sports organizations, including The Kelly Clark Foundation, SheJumps, STOKED, and Boarding For Breast Cancer. When she first joined the Share Winter Foundation on their Board of Directors, Constance gained valuable insight into where the organization had been. Now, she's using her legal skills to help shape its future.

Constance earned her bachelor's degree from St. Louis University, her law degree from Hofstra University, her executive certificate in sports philanthropy from the George Washington University School of Business, and her certificate in financial success for nonprofits from Cornell.

An education in law provides critical thinking skills that can help you diffuse any issue with facts, evidence, and policy. When faced with a challenge, lawyers can articulate what really matters. But how can you use these skills to affect societal change?

Moving from corporate law to the nonprofit sector, Constance Beverley now uses her skills to innovate outside of the legal industry. Working in the snow sports space — which is often an elite community — Constance realized that many kids were being turned away from opportunities. But this isn't unique to winter sports; it goes back to the same underlying systems of oppression, classism, and racism that we see in all industries. Armed with her legal knowledge, she has the power to drive change.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman sits down with Constance Beverley, CEO of the Share Winter Foundation, to talk about using legal skills to impact societal change. Constance discusses how she translated her skills from big law to the nonprofit world, how lawyers can work through communication challenges, and the top legal skills that can be applied to any industry.

Robert Ingalls is a recovering attorney, speaker, and the Founder and Chief Podcast Strategist at LawPods. LawPods helps busy attorneys create world-class podcast content that boosts SEO, builds relationships, and drives revenue. They've worked with premier law firms including McGuireWoods, Blank Rome, and the Law Offices of John T. Orcutt. 

Before founding LawPods, Robert battled anxiety from the pressure, long hours, and constant conflict of a litigation career. After creating podcasts for his law firm, Robert decided to turn it into a full-time career. With very few takers in the early days, he spent two years in a corporate banking gig, grinding nights and weekends to bring LawPods to life. 

Robert frequently speaks on topics including positioning your podcast for success, prioritizing mental health, entrepreneurship, and law office technology. In his spare time, he enjoys teaching podcasting at community events, spending time with his family, skateboarding, and snowboarding.

Podcasting is growing year after year. More than one-third of people in the US are listening to podcasts — many of whom listen on a weekly basis. Podcasting has become a part of many people's everyday lives. But what are the benefits of podcasting? Should your law firm start a podcast?

Some people think a podcast is just an audio conversation. But Robert Ingalls says it's more than that: it's video, it's social media, it's SEO, and it's a content marketing strategy all in one. Podcasting is a powerful tool that can position you as a trusted thought leader, connect you with listeners on an emotional level, and help you develop relationships — before you even meet someone. 

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman sits down with Robert Ingalls, Founder and Chief Podcast Strategist of LawPods, to talk about how law firms can use podcasting to build relationships and attract clients. Robert discusses how a podcast can help your firm grow and build trust with clients, the top reasons why law podcasts fail, and his advice for starting a podcast and enlisting a company of experts.

Niki Schaefer is the Vice President and General Counsel at ReliabilityFirst, a company that ensures the Mid-Atlantic electric grid is reliable and secure.

Niki spent the first half of her career as a Commercial Litigator at Benesch Friedlander Coplan & Aronoff, a large law firm in Cleveland, Ohio. She spent the second half of her career in a variety of in-house roles, initially on ReliabilityFirst's legal team. She proceeded to sharpen her expertise as a litigator in general counsel roles for a variety of business units at Eaton Corporation, a large manufacturing company based in Cleveland. 

Two years ago, Niki returned to ReliabilityFirst as its General Counsel after suffering a stroke that not only impacted her speech and balance, but also her life and career. Niki believes that the changes she made to her life and work as a result of her stroke were a catalyst for achieving a balance and happiness she hadn't known beforehand.

Many ambitious lawyers fall into the trap of overworking themselves, saying "yes" to everything that's asked of them, and putting their career before their own health. For Niki Schaefer, this kind of lifestyle led to a horrific experience — and forced her to change her approach to her life and work.

Amidst the hustle and bustle of her career, Niki suffered a stroke. While taking 10 weeks off to recover, she had the most self-reflective moment: she needed to decide what was most important in her personal and work life and draw boundaries. When returning to the workforce, Niki's stroke empowered her to say "no," delegate tasks, and respond to uncontrollable situations in the most beneficial way possible. Now, she's living a happy and well-balanced life inside and outside of work. 

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman sits down with Niki Schaefer, Vice President and General Counsel at ReliabilityFirst, to talk about how her stroke transformed her life. Niki describes the factors that contributed to the stroke, the pause that helped her shift priorities, and tips for being confident in your judgment — despite society's expectations.

Chris DeSantis is a speaker, author, and consultant specializing in workplace interventions. With nearly 30 years of experience as an independent organizational behavior consultant, Chris is a trusted partner to some of the world's largest companies in the professional services, tech, and pharmaceutical industries. When working with clients, his goals are to dig deeper, treat the root causes, and offer user-friendly solutions aligned with company initiatives. 

Before becoming an independent consultant, Chris was the Director of Management Development and Training for the American Medical Association and a Human Resources Development Manager at Brunswick Corporation. Chris has a BBA from the University of Notre Dame, an MA in organizational behavior from Loyola University in Chicago, and an MBA from the University of Denver.

Chris is the Author of Why I Find You Irritating: Navigating Generational Friction at Work. He's also the Host of the Cubicle Confidential podcast, where he and Co-host Mary Abbajay share advice on outrageous workplace questions, comments, and concerns.

When it comes to generational differences, we're all generalizing and fitting each other into categories — because it makes society easier to navigate. Based on these generalizations, we develop perceptions of others and judge them through the lens of who we are. However, these perceptions often cause friction in the workplace. So, what can you do to maneuver generational challenges?

Chris DeSantis says we need to embrace the differences. If we want to get rid of generational tensions, we should reserve judgment, think rationally, and give people the benefit of the doubt. We're all complex human beings whose experiences and characteristics amount to more than just a generational category. 

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman is joined by speaker, author, podcaster, and consultant, Chris DeSantis, to talk about strategies for navigating generational differences in the workplace. Chris discusses where generational characteristics are derived, advice for accepting other generations, and how embracing differences can help create more diverse, collaborative workplaces.

Brandie Knox is the Principal and Creative Director of Knox Design Strategy, a branding and design studio based in New York City. Today, Knox Design Strategy works with more than 30 law firm clients, creating designs that meet the firm's goals. According to Brandie, a pretty design that doesn't help clients compete is futile. Great design is useful, effective, strategic, and technology-driven. 

Brandie earned her MFA from East Carolina University, where she also served on the faculty as an Assistant Professor. In 2002, Brandie moved to New York and started a small design agency, where she worked on her first law firm website as well as projects for General Electric, the Bank of New York, and Johnson & Johnson. 

Brandie went on to join the design team for Shearman & Sterling, a renowned firm with more than 850 attorneys in offices around the world. In her five years there, she developed experience and expertise in every aspect of legal marketing and design for law firms. A longtime member of the Legal Marketing Association, Brandie was the 2020 Chair of the New York Local Group and led the organization through the beginning of the pandemic.

When most people think of design, they think of visuals like colors, fonts, and imagery. These elements are important, but great design is more than what meets the eye. Design should reflect a firm's brand and create a pleasant, engaging experience. When coupled with technology, design elevates the user experience, allowing for efficient, flexible, and customizable processes.

Brandie Knox has been working with law firms for over two decades, guiding them through the design process and helping them implement technologies like intranets, extranets, custom dashboards, and management systems. Especially as the digital world evolves and more companies continue working remotely, Brandie says it's crucial that firms invest in design and technology. Not only do these strategies create more efficient and easy-to-use systems, but they promote your firm's culture and help you differentiate from the crowd. 

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman sits down with Brandie Knox, Principal and Creative Director of Knox Design Strategy, to talk about how design and technology can help you better serve your clients. Brandie shares how technology can help firms achieve a variety of goals, why customization is key, and why design is a crucial component in the implementation and development of technologies and systems.

Robyn Addis is the COO and Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Legal Internet Solutions Inc. (LISI). In this role, she oversees the systems and processes of the agency and provides strategic leadership and guidance to the marketing and business development teams, as well as outsourced legal marketing services clients. Additionally, Robyn guides the development and execution of multiple high-performing marketing channels, including LISI's LinkedIn livestream and their recently launched podcast, All the Things. 

Prior to joining LISI, Robyn spent 15 years at two of Philadelphia's largest law firms, Ballard Spahr LLP and Dechert LLP. She also started her own consulting firm, where she helps executive women tell their stories and position themselves for career development and success. 

After years of experience working in law firms, Robyn understands lawyers' fears around digital marketing. For the industry as a whole, immersion in the digital world feels revolutionary. However, it's crucial to leverage digital marketing tactics in order to reach more people, build relationships, and convert clients. Fortunately, Robyn has expert advice on how to overcome digital marketing fears and move the needle in your business. 

The digital world is expanding rapidly, and if you're not leveraging digital strategies, you're already far behind. But for many lawyers, there's a major obstacle standing in their way: fear. So what can you do to get past your fear of digital marketing and reach more clients?

Whether you're afraid of making a mistake, saying the wrong thing, or changing up your marketing strategy, Robyn Addis has tips to help you work through these challenges and market yourself in the digital space. According to Robyn, if you're just dipping your toe into the digital world now, you have some wiggle room to test out different tactics and see what works. Your audience isn't necessarily expecting perfection — they just want to connect with authentic people that they can trust. 

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman talks with Robyn Addis, COO and Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Legal Internet Solutions Inc. (LISI). Robyn discusses the valuable benefits of digital marketing for lawyers and law firms, how to nurture relationships through social channels, and mistakes to avoid when sharing content online.

Robyn Addis is the COO and Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Legal Internet Solutions Inc. (LISI). In this role, she oversees the systems and processes of the agency and provides strategic leadership and guidance to the marketing and business development teams, as well as outsourced legal marketing services clients. Additionally, Robyn guides the development and execution of multiple high-performing marketing channels, including LISI's LinkedIn livestream and their recently launched podcast, All the Things. 

Prior to joining LISI, Robyn spent 15 years at two of Philadelphia's largest law firms, Ballard Spahr LLP and Dechert LLP. She also started her own consulting firm, where she helps executive women tell their stories and position themselves for career development and success. 

After years of experience working in law firms, Robyn understands lawyers' fears around digital marketing. For the industry as a whole, immersion in the digital world feels revolutionary. However, it's crucial to leverage digital marketing tactics in order to reach more people, build relationships, and convert clients. Fortunately, Robyn has expert advice on how to overcome digital marketing fears and move the needle in your business. 

The digital world is expanding rapidly, and if you're not leveraging digital strategies, you're already far behind. But for many lawyers, there's a major obstacle standing in their way: fear. So what can you do to get past your fear of digital marketing and reach more clients?

Whether you're afraid of making a mistake, saying the wrong thing, or changing up your marketing strategy, Robyn Addis has tips to help you work through these challenges and market yourself in the digital space. According to Robyn, if you're just dipping your toe into the digital world now, you have some wiggle room to test out different tactics and see what works. Your audience isn't necessarily expecting perfection — they just want to connect with authentic people that they can trust. 

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman talks with Robyn Addis, COO and Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Legal Internet Solutions Inc. (LISI). Robyn discusses the valuable benefits of digital marketing for lawyers and law firms, how to nurture relationships through social channels, and mistakes to avoid when sharing content online.

Lauren Lynch is the first-ever Chief Culture Officer at Mandelbaum Barrett, where she focuses on improving employee engagement and establishing a positive culture for employee morale. She's a force for cultural change and is passionate about internal communications and the employee experience.  

To help improve the culture at Mandelbaum Barrett, Lauren has launched virtual and in-person events, wellness initiatives, birthday celebrations, employee recognition awards, take your child to work day, and more. Additionally, she creates focus groups to support employees and works closely with leadership teams to ensure that the firm's messaging is aligned with its core values.

Lauren is a marketing and communications professional and has spent more than 20 years in the legal industry. She's an expert at creating content, amplifying social media presence, planning events, and providing innovative thinking to the firm's leadership, maximizing their ROI for all aspects of marketing. Before joining Mandelbaum Barrett, she served in executive marketing roles at various firms, including Frier Levitt, Brach Eichler, and Martin Clearwater & Bell.

The legal industry has a bad reputation when it comes to work-life balance. A recent article from Law360 states that 63% of lawyers report burnout. So, what can you do to energize and motivate your employees and help them feel valued in the workplace? 

The answer lies in your culture. Even initiatives as small as snacks in the lunchroom encourage employees to get up from their desks and take a mental break, foster conversations with coworkers, and do better work. Firms that intentionally build a desirable, compelling culture will retain top talent and see their business thrive — because when you invest in your people, you're investing in one of the most important aspects of your business.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman is joined by Lauren Lynch, Chief Culture Officer at Mandelbaum Barrett, to talk about the importance of intentionally developing your firm's culture. Lauren describes the initiatives she's implemented at her firm, how culture connects all departments and generations, and why improving your culture can improve your business.

Amy Goldsmith is Partner at Tarter Krinsky & Drogin and Chair of their Privacy and Cybersecurity Group. In these roles, Amy guides clients through the legal aspects of building recognizable brands, developing desirable products and services, and devising strategic IP plans to mitigate risk. 

Amy has served as the Vice President of the New York Women's Bar Association and currently co-manages its continuing legal education programs. She also teaches CLE programs for Lawline. Additionally, Amy is part of the American Bar Association and the International Trademark Association (INTA) and is on the board of directors of Savvy Ladies, a nonprofit whose mission is to educate women to be financially savvy. Previously, Amy was a speaker at TEDxTimesSquare and served on its advisory board. 

A committed mentor to both attorneys and business owners, Amy launched Tarter Krinsky & Drogin's mentoring program over five years ago. As the firm grows exponentially over the years, the mentorship program gives new associates the skills and coaching needed to succeed. The program not only aids associates, but it also builds culture, helps the firm retain top talent, and gives everyone the opportunity to move up the career ladder. 

A key driver of growth and productivity, formal mentorship programs can be instrumental to the success of new associates on your team. As your firm grows, it's easy for these associates to get lost in the onboarding process. But mentorship programs can help team members gain the information and skills necessary to thrive in the workplace, grow in their practice, and reach new opportunities.  

However, as Amy Goldsmith points out, mentorship programs aren't just beneficial to new hires. On the mentor side, leaders have the opportunity to get to know new associates and foster valuable professional relationships. For the firm as a whole, mentorship programs help build a strong culture by providing space for feedback, concerns, and new ideas. They are also crucial for retaining top talent and developing the next wave of leadership for your organization.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman sits down with Amy Goldsmith, Partner at Tarter Krinsky & Drogin and Chair of their Privacy and Cybersecurity Group. Together, they talk about the benefits of mentorship programs for both new associates and firm leaders, how current partners can increase diversity in leadership, and the importance of active listening with colleagues and clients.     

Yen Chu is the Chief Legal Officer of Equinox, an integrated fitness, wellness, and hospitality company. In this role, Yen oversees legal, ESG, government affairs, and community relations. She has led Equinox's growth with the launches of new ventures and businesses, including the first Equinox Hotels, and is the Executive Sponsor for its Equality + Belonging Leadership Council. 

Yen is a graduate of Columbia Law School and a member of the Board of Directors of the Columbia Law School Association and the nonprofit DirectWomen. Prior to joining Equinox, she spent 11 years in leadership roles at the Ralph Lauren Corporation, working closely with the Board of Directors and executive team. Yen began her legal career as a corporate attorney at Simpson Thacher & Bartlett, where she spent nearly a decade executing complex corporate transactions for private equity firms, investment banks, and public and private companies.

As an executive leader with 25 years of experience, Yen understands the importance of using your voice to uplift others, taking a stand on ESG issues, and admitting what you don't know. In addition to these principles, Yen has built her career using a growth mindset, and she's always looking to expand her knowledge and learn from others.

Over the past two decades, the role of in-house and general counsel lawyers has evolved. These positions are no longer perceived as cushy nine-to-five jobs and are now more focused on environmental, social, and governance (ESG) initiatives within a company. This shift has only become more dramatic over the last two years, with social upheaval and a global crisis altering the way organizations operate. So, what makes an effective general counsel today?

According to Yen Chu, in-house attorneys have to be prepared to pivot, give a voice to the underrepresented, and learn from those who are different from them. Most importantly, Yen advises leaders and lawyers alike to execute with kindness and always remember the human aspect of their jobs. The recent global pandemic, social and political upheaval, and economic instability have affected so many lives — it's imperative that we focus on the humanity of our actions, not just the results.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman talks with Yen Chu, Chief Legal Officer of Equinox, about succeeding as an in-house lawyer and leader in today's climate. Yen discusses the importance of creating a diverse and inclusive space, the key to thriving outside of your comfort zone, and how to drive growth and social change through continuous learning.

Jeffrey Bast is a nationally respected attorney with over 30 years of experience in insolvency and commercial litigation. He represents debtors, creditors, trustees, and business stakeholders in workouts, reorganizations, and bankruptcy-related litigation, with a strong focus on avoiding bankruptcy when possible and guiding clients through complex financial transactions and restructuring. Jeff completed two federal bankruptcy clerkships and rose to the level of equity partner at two international law firms. He brings both legal and business acumen to each matter, with deep experience in bankruptcy sales, acquisitions, and financing. Jeff is frequently invited to speak and has been consistently recognized by Chambers USA, Best Lawyers in America, Florida Super Lawyers, Martindale-Hubbell, and the South Florida Legal Guide.

Brett Amron is a nationally recognized litigator with over 25 years of experience in complex business and bankruptcy litigation, representing fiduciaries, trustees, creditors, and companies in high-stakes matters. A pioneer in utilizing contingency fee structures in insolvency cases, Brett has secured tens of millions of dollars in recoveries for creditors. He served as a prosecutor and later as a partner in a major bankruptcy litigation group. Brett is consistently recognized by Chambers USA, Best Lawyers in America, Florida Super Lawyers, and the National Law Journal. He also serves on committees for the ABA and Federal Bar Association.

Together, Jeff and Brett are the founding partners of Bast Amron LLP, a nationally recognized boutique law firm based in Miami, Florida. The firm focuses on commercial litigation, insolvency, bankruptcy, and related business disputes, representing debtors, creditors, fiduciaries, and trustees in complex matters nationwide.

Jeff and Brett didn't know each other when they each launched solo practices in 2008. By 2009, they had formed a partnership that has now lasted 16 years. What started as two lawyers drinking from a firehose during the financial crisis became something much bigger—a thriving law firm with a national reputation.

Along the way, they've built a resilient firm culture, navigated economic cycles, and adapted to a shifting legal market. Their approach to law firm leadership, talent retention, and long-term growth shows how intentional communication and shared values can sustain a partnership over decades.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge podcast, Elise speaks with Jeff and Brett about the founding decisions that shaped their identity, how they've maintained trust and communication for more than 16 years, and what it takes to run a law firm partnership that's built to last.

3:07 - The founding values that have guided them for 16 years

8:07 - How they built trust when they barely knew each other

14:25 - The weekly communication rituals that keep them aligned

16:20 - Being open to conversations and opportunities for growth

20:00 - Learning to run a business through EO, the Entrepreneurs' Organization

22:49 - Core drivers for evaluating opportunities and staying focused

24:18 - The culture they're passionate about protecting

28:54 - Their "hire slow, fire fast" approach to talent

34:33 - Lessons about staying resilient through changing markets

39:59 - Why they still feel like they're building a startup after 16 years

43:08 - The genesis of their podcast and the Business Advantage Forum

47:53 - Brett's advice on patience and listening

48:34 - Jeff's philosophy on trust as the foundation of leadership

Bast Amron LLP

The Practice Podcast

Entrepreneurs' Organization (EO)

Managing Partner Forum

Get connected with the coaching team: hello@thelawyersedge.com

The Lawyer's Edge

Today's episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women's Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month business development program created BY women lawyers for women lawyers. Ignite is a carefully designed business development program containing content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are committed to becoming rainmakers AND supporting the retention and advancement of other women in the profession.

If you are interested in either participating in the program or sponsoring a woman in your firm to enroll, learn more about Ignite and sign up for our registration alerts by visiting www.thelawyersedge.com/ignite.

Diana Manning is the Managing Principal of Bressler, Amery & Ross, a full-service law firm with more than 150 attorneys across multiple states. She is also Co-chair of Bressler's Business and Commercial Litigation practice group and spearheads the firm's Appellate practice team. As a law firm leader, Diana strives to involve her team in decisions, work through surprising challenges, and transform the conversation around what leaders should look like.

Diana has over two decades of experience in complex commercial litigation and is certified by the Supreme Court of New Jersey as a civil trial attorney. She lectures and writes on a number of issues important to attorneys and clients, including legal ethics, business litigation, and professional liability. Diana is also the President-Elect of the New Jersey Women Lawyers Association and a member of the New Jersey State Bar Association's Board of Trustees. 

Diana served on the District XA Ethics Committee for 10 years and was appointed Chair by the New Jersey Supreme Court from 2017 to 2019. She is also a past President of Trial Attorneys of New Jersey, the Morris County Bar Association, and the Morris County Bar Foundation.

There's a great deal of responsibility that comes with the role of managing partner — but it may not be what you expect. In addition to ensuring the firm runs smoothly, managing partners must also balance the personal side of leadership, from navigating team health concerns to developing a strong culture. So how can law firm leaders learn to lead through the unexpected?

Diana Manning's background in different committees, associations, and legal roles has helped her jump into her leadership position with enthusiasm. Not only has Diana succeeded as Managing Principal of her firm, but she has also defied the traditional image of a law firm leader. In Diana's experience, there's a high level of mental responsibility required for leaders, and a managing partner has to balance both personal and professional concerns while running the business. How does she manage it all? By embracing the unexpected and leading with authenticity, Diana has transformed the culture and growth of her firm. 

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman sits down with Diana Manning, Managing Principal of Bressler, Amery & Ross, to talk about the surprising challenges and opportunities for law firm leaders. Diana shares how she rose up to Managing Principal of her firm, the importance of getting involved and expanding your network, and how her leadership style helps her overcome obstacles and empower her team.      

Michelle Banks is a Senior Advisor at BarkerGilmore, a company leading the way in legal and compliance optimization. At BarkerGilmore, Michelle specializes in executive leadership coaching for women general counsel. 

Active in many nonprofits, Michelle is a member of the Board of Directors at DirectWomen and chairs Ms. JD's annual LaddHer Up retreat. She is also the Co-founder and Co-chair of UCLA Women LEAD, a network of more than 3,000 women law students. 

In her role at BarkerGilmore, Michelle primarily supports newer general counsel and those going through a transition period. Bringing an exceptional corporate perspective, she helps them transition into new roles, manage change, and successfully resolve the array of challenges they face. From working closely with various general counsel, Michelle understands what outside counsel should know — and the invaluable power of networking.

In-house counsel and their outside attorneys communicate on a regular basis. But private practice lawyers who haven't worked in-house often don't fully understand the in-house counsel role, potentially reducing the value that private practice lawyers deliver to their clients.

On a separate topic, it's no secret that, despite the fact that women have been graduating from law schools at the rate of 50% for nearly 30 years, women lawyers continue to be underrepresented in leadership roles.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman is joined by Michelle Banks, former Global General Counsel at The Gap and a Senior Advisor and Executive Coach at BarkerGilmore, where she specializes in working with general counsel who are changing roles or taking on significant leadership responsibility. Michelle talks about what general counsel wish their outside lawyers knew about the demands of their jobs and the career-boosting tip that she wishes she had known early in her career.

A tireless advocate for women's advancement in the profession and the Co-founder and Co-chair of UCLA Law Women LEAD, Michelle offers tips to help individual women lawyers advance and thrive but also strongly believes that corporations and law firms must intentionally work to interrupt gender bias within their organizations so that talented women can lead.

Michelle also goes into detail about her own professional journey, the passion she has for her volunteer work empowering women in the legal community, and the value of cultivating a growth mindset.

Janet Falk is a writer, speaker, and consultant with over 30 years of experience in public relations and marketing communications. Through her company, Falk Communications and Research, she helps attorneys, executives, and firms stand out in the market.

Janet leads workshops and advises on media relations, websites, LinkedIn profiles, articles, nonlegal industry trade publications, and client newsletters, among other areas. She has published articles on media relations and marketing in the New York Law Journal, the New Jersey Law Journal, and Marketing the Law Firm. Janet is also a frequent speaker on webinars and podcasts about public relations and legal marketing.

Janet advises attorneys at solo and small law firms on media relations and marketing communications so that they can attract new clients, remain top of mind with prior clients, keep in touch with referral sources, help recruit associates, generate a news story about litigation that puts pressure on opposing counsel, and achieve business goals. One of the major components that can help firms thrive in these areas is knowing how to deal with reporters. That's why Janet is on a mission to help attorneys gain visibility, get in touch with reporters, and craft a memorable message that will make them the go-to lawyer for big news stories.

Why would an attorney want to be in the news? Beyond the immediate gain of being in front of your potential client, getting in the news can help you keep in touch with referral sources, recruit employees, advocate for a cause, and prove that you're an expert on a given topic. So how can you situate yourself as the go-to lawyer reporters want to call? 

According to Janet Falk, attorneys have to think about the reporter's audience. This is crucial if you want reporters to continuously use you as a source. Additionally, you want to be memorable and quotable. But how? Janet breaks it down into the "four A's:" acronym, analogy, anecdote, and alliteration. You have to be creative in your remarks to a reporter, and providing visuals, a story, or any one of the "four A's" will give them something that they can latch onto and turn into a compelling account for their audiences. 

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman is joined by Janet Falk, consultant, writer, and speaker at Falk Communications and Research, to talk about strategies for dealing with reporters and getting in the news. Janet details how to identify and contact reporters, the best ways to shape your media profile, tips for dealing with spontaneous reporter calls, and why it's crucial to keep the reporter's audience top of mind throughout the process.

Honorable M. Margaret McKeown is a Judge in the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit. Before being appointed to the court in 1998, she was in private practice for over two decades in Seattle and Washington, DC. 

Hon. McKeown is recognized for her work on judicial ethics, gender issues, and international rule of law. She is a member of various committees, has lectured throughout the world, and has participated in numerous rule of law initiatives with judges and lawyers. Hon. McKeown is a member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and received the ABA Margaret Brent Women Lawyers of Achievement Award, the ABA John Marshall Award, and the Girl Scouts Cool Women award, among others.

Roberta (Bobbi) Liebenberg is a Senior Partner at Fine, Kaplan and Black, focusing her practice on antitrust and class actions. She's also a Principal of The Red Bee Group, a women and minority-owned consulting firm that concentrates on helping organizations and law firms use data-based strategies to attract and retain talent, foster innovation, and attain diversity, equity, and inclusion objectives. 

Bobbi is one of the nation's leading authorities on advancing diversity and inclusion inside the legal profession, and she has written, spoken, and consulted extensively on these issues. She has chaired organizations devoted to gender equality in the profession, spearheading a number of initiatives, studies, and publications concerning various matters of importance to women lawyers.

Hon. McKeown and Bobbi have diligently researched implicit gender biases, specifically regarding office work in the legal space. "The Hazards of Female Lawyers Being 'Office Moms,'" an article they co-authored, describes why women are often viewed as the "glue" or the "moms" of the firm — and thus why office work is often disproportionately delegated to them. Hon. McKeown and Bobbi dig into the history, the current trends, and their advice on how firms can avoid yielding to the "office mom" phenomenon.

The extra office work — like administrative tasks, lifting morale, and organizing client meetings — is mission-critical to the health of a firm. However, these duties are often uncompensated, unrecognized, and fall on the shoulders of women lawyers, feeding into the "office mom" phenomenon. So what can leaders do to ensure they're assigning this work more equitably? And what strategies can individual lawyers use to avoid these gender-biased assignments?

Through their research, Hon. M. Margaret McKeown and Bobbi Liebenberg were able to explore the "office mom" stereotype and brainstorm strategies to avoid this kind of implicit bias, specifically in law. Because of social pressure, obligation, and fears of penalization, it can be challenging to navigate resolutions to the biased office work assignments. However, Hon. McKeown and Bobbi have discovered solutions for women in any industry: speak up, use humor, and seek the advice of allies and mentors to help guide you.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman talks with Hon. M. Margaret McKeown, Judge in the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, and Bobbi Liebenberg, Senior Partner at Fine, Kaplan and Black and Principal of The Red Bee Group. Together, they delve into the reasons why office work is so important, why the tasks are often assigned to women, and how individuals and firms alike can break this inequitable cycle.

Stephanie Scharf is the Founding Partner of Scharf Banks Marmor LLC, a nationally prominent women-owned law firm that represents corporate clients across a range of litigation and corporate matters. Stephanie is also a Founding Principal of The Red Bee Group, a consulting firm that helps businesses, organizations, and law firms achieve their growth goals. 

Stephanie was the Chair of the American Bar Association's Commission on Women in the Profession from 2017 to 2020 and was the 2015-2016 Advisor to the American Bar Association's Presidential Commission on Diversity and Inclusion 360. She has over 30 years of experience in complex litigation. Previously, she was a Partner at Jenner & Block and a Partner at Kirkland & Ellis LLP.  

Stephanie has published innovative research on topics such as the success of law firms in retaining and advancing lawyers, attributes of effective leadership, and strategies for growth and talent development. She understands the importance of data and how it can help law firms be an advocate for change, diversify their workforce, and achieve the concrete goals of their entire team. 

How can you initiate change in your law firm? Why is sponsorship important for both leaders and growing lawyers? What role does data play in achieving your firm's goals? Stephanie Scharf is here to share her insight into these difficult questions.

As an industry thought leader with more than 30 years of experience in law, Stephanie understands the need for change — and the tools law firms can use to initiate change. Amidst the many moving parts of a law firm, one thing is for sure: if you are expecting change, you need to measure it. In her many years of research, Stephanie has discovered that data and metrics are major components of change. But the process doesn't have to be complicated. Shape your goals around the needs of the team, craft a strategy to achieve them, and measure your progress each step of the way to decide what works.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman is joined by Stephanie Scharf, Founding Partner of Scharf Banks Marmor LLC and Principal of The Red Bee Group. Stephanie shares insight into her research, discusses strategies to create change in your law firm, and talks about the importance of measuring data and metrics to reach your goals. She also explains how sponsorship is mutually beneficial — and why every lawyer should have a sponsor. 

Jemi Lucey is a Partner in the Litigation and Employment Law Departments at Greenbaum, Rowe, Smith & Davis LLP and is Co-chair of their higher education practice group. She represents private companies, public entities, and institutions of higher learning in federal and state civil litigation matters across various practice areas. 

Jemi is an American Bar Foundation Fellow. She was also recognized by the Commerce & Industry Association of New Jersey as one of New Jersey's Women Business Leaders and was selected for inclusion by the New Jersey Law Journal on its 2020 list of the Top Women in the Law, among many other accolades.

Jemi has held many leadership roles throughout her career. As the immediate past President of the New Jersey Women Lawyers Association, Jemi has experience leading a group through the pandemic, pushing for the advancement of women in the profession, and promoting equity and education in the legal space. Above all, Jemi's leadership positions have shown her the value of being an authentic leader.

Thriving in a leadership role requires more than just being a good lawyer. For Jemi Lucey, leadership is about leaving an organization better than when you started, speaking up when you have issues, and enlisting others for help. But there's one principle that can help you succeed through it all: authenticity.

Authenticity is one of the best tools in the practice of law because it allows you to connect genuinely with others and gain their trust. People are drawn to help you advance a cause when you appeal to them authentically, but you have to be vulnerable, engaging, and willing to take risks. A leader should be someone that people want to follow — and when you lead with authenticity, they'll happily support your plan to effect positive change and grow as a team. 

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman talks with Jemi Lucey, Partner at Greenbaum, Rowe, Smith & Davis LLP, about what it means to be an authentic leader. Jemi discusses the characteristics of a great leader, why authenticity is vital, and how to lift up your team members and grow together. Plus, Jemi talks about her personal experience as a leader and shares the advice that guided her along the way.

Linda Perez Clark is the Managing Partner of Kean Miller and the Program Director for Kean Miller Connection, an annual law school preparatory program for traditionally underrepresented individuals in law school and law practice.

Linda has more than 20 years of experience representing clients in a wide variety of transactional matters, including engineering, procurement, construction-related contracts, asset and stock acquisitions, and commercial leases. 

Linda is listed among the top Corporate/M&A lawyers in the state of Louisiana by Chambers USA 2020. She's also on the Lawyers of Color's (LoC) power list 2020. As the first female partner at Kean Miller, Linda is dedicated to diversity, inclusion, and leading with gratitude.

As the first-ever female managing partner at her firm, Linda Perez Clark diligently leads with transparency, gratitude, and a commitment to help other minorities receive support to grow in their careers. What has she learned from being a managing partner, and what are her top lessons for current and aspiring leaders? 

Mentored by great lawyers and professionals, Linda had a front-row seat to inspirational leadership. As a trustworthy, hard worker, she earned the role of managing partner, vowing to elevate the firm and bring educational opportunities to the community. What has helped her thrive in this position? Linda says it's vital to open your mind and heart to opportunities that will help you learn and grow. Most importantly, Linda advises you to lead with gratitude, acknowledge others' contributions, and share thanks for the people who support you along the way. 

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman sits down with Linda Perez Clark, Managing Partner at Kean Miller, to talk about leadership lessons and share top tips for those in the legal industry. Linda discusses her journey to become Managing Partner, the challenges she faced transitioning from lawyer to partner, and why gratitude and relationships are vital to success.

Cathy Miron is a seasoned leader and business mentor with experience in Fortune 500 companies, small businesses, and nonprofits. She is known for her expertise in data protection, cybersecurity, and digital transformation.

Cathy is the President and CEO of eSilo, a data protection company that offers managed backup and cybersecurity solutions. In this role, she works with business owners, CEOs, and CFOs to educate staff and deploy turnkey security and data protection solutions.

Cathy has worked with many of the country's premier law firms, accounting firms, financial advisors, consultants, healthcare institutions, and country clubs, implementing technologies that protect vital information. A cyberattack can happen to anyone at any time, so it's essential to prepare before disaster strikes. That's why Cathy is educating industries on all things cybersecurity — because you may not be as protected as you think.

As the digital world evolves, small and large organizations alike are seeing more threats to their data. According to Cathy Miron, cyberattacks have tripled in recent years. So what can you do to protect your data and your clients? 

There are surprising — yet common — mistakes that can lead to cyberattacks, system failures, or loss of data, and Cathy has seen it all. From email phishing scams to cats walking across computers to billion-dollar ransomware threats, there are so many factors that could lead to a major loss. What will save you from this? Data backups, encryption, and disaster plans. Since data is one of your most important assets, you have to make sure you're secure across the board.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman is joined by Cathy Miron, President and CEO of eSilo, to talk about cybersecurity best practices. Cathy shares the most common mistakes that lead to data loss, how firms of all sizes can be affected, and the crucial investments that can protect you from cyberattacks and security threats.

Michele DeStefano is the Founder of Movelaw, a company that brings a  human-centered design perspective to the law industry in order to retain lawyers, create culture change, develop a collaborative approach, leverage technology, and bring cross-border initiatives to fruition. Michele is also an author, speaker, consultant, and facilitator in these areas of expertise.

Michele is a Professor at the University of Miami School of Law, affiliated faculty at Harvard Law School Executive Education and IE Law School, Founder of LawWithoutWalls, and Co-curator of the Compliance Elliance Journal. She has been recognized as a "Legal Rebel" by the American Bar Association and as one of the "Top 20 Most Innovative Lawyers" by the Financial Times.

Michele researches and writes about the intersections between law, business, and innovation. She has authored two books that leverage perspectives from countless lawyers and leaders on innovation, technology, and the future ecosystem of the legal sector. For Michele, creating a collaborative, culture-based firm relies heavily on innovation, creativity, and a team that's ready to drive change. 

How can change-averse lawyers get on the path to innovation? What does it take to create a culture shift and build up a team of like-minded individuals?

According to Michele DeStefano, creativity breeds innovation. Luckily, she says we are all born creative — yes, even lawyers — and drawing out this creativity is a launching point for change. You must leave behind the meticulous research, over analyzation, and hesitation to really get on the innovation track. Embrace the creative, be open to opportunities, start small, and begin with yourself. When you lead with these characteristics, your team will follow, and you'll make a significant difference in the industry.         

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman talks with Michele DeStefano, Founder of Movelaw, about the mindset and behavior shifts needed to innovate. Michele shares why you need a team of like-minded early adopters, how to generate culture change on a big scale, and the importance of crafting a team-centered approach. Michele also discusses her 3-4-5 method for change and why a diversified network is a key to success!  

Heidi Friedman is a partner in Thompson Hine's Environmental and Products Liability practice groups and Co-chair of the firm's ESG Collaborative. She serves as national environmental counsel for many large corporations, including Fortune 500 companies. 

Heidi is also a Fellow of the American College of Environmental Lawyers (ACOEL), a Member of the International Association of Defense Counsel and DRI, and she's on the Board of Directors and Honoree Committee for Bellefaire JCB and DirectWomen, respectively.

As a mother, lawyer, and Founder and Former Chair of Thompson Hine's Women's Initiative, Heidi strongly advocates for diversity, equality, authenticity, and creating a culture of belonging. For Heidi, achieving these feats is all about crafting your unique course to success, both inside and outside of the workplace. 

Oftentimes, lawyers are expected to fulfill cookie-cutter examples of success, incessantly working their way up the ladder in order to make partner. But what about entry-level associates, parents, and others who want to find success and happiness in their careers right now? Is there a way to achieve your goals while straying from the traditional path?

According to Heidi Friedman, the "you do you" philosophy can help anyone find happiness in their professional and personal lives regardless of age, gender, or experience. Based on prioritization, flexibility, and authenticity, this method allows you to chart your own path and find what works best for you. Instead of falling into the traps of comparison, begrudgingly following tradition, and feeding the voice in your head saying "you're not doing enough," Heidi suggests following the course that is genuinely and authentically you. 

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman is joined by Heidi Friedman, Partner in Thompson Hine's Environmental Products and Liability sector and Co-chair of the firm's ESG Collaborative. Together, they talk about shaping your unique track to success in the legal industry by embracing authenticity, asking for what you want, and nurturing relationships. Heidi also describes her journey to success and shares inspirational advice from mentors along the way.

Lexlee Overton is a former trial lawyer who spent more than 30 years in the courtroom before choosing a different path. After experiencing firsthand how the legal profession can wear lawyers down, she founded Mind Over Law to help lawyers move beyond burnout and lead with greater clarity, resilience, and purpose.

Today, she works with both individual lawyers and legal teams using a science-based approach that combines mindfulness, emotional intelligence, and practical leadership tools to build healthier law firms with better performance.

The legal profession loves to reward hustle, grind it out, power through, keep your head down and just get the work done. But what if the real power comes from doing things differently?

Lexlee Overton spent decades playing by those rules until she realized something had to change. After 30 years in the courtroom, a health crisis at age 30 made her question everything about how lawyers are supposed to work. She founded Mind Over Law because she believes lawyers can be healthier, happier people and still do excellent work.

Now she works with individual lawyers and legal teams, teaching them that energy management is way more important than time management. She's discovered that when leaders work on themselves first, they naturally start building better teams.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge podcast, Elise speaks with Lexlee about why that "badge of honor" mentality around overwork is actually making lawyers less powerful, what happens when teams are chronically depleted, and how law firm leaders can build the kind of culture that actually attracts and keeps good people.

2:32 - Lexlee's personal breaking point and wake-up call

5:22 - The changing attitudes toward mindfulness in law

9:59 - Warning signs lawyers ignore before burnout hits

12:51 - Simple practices for skeptical, hard-driving lawyers

16:06 - The neuroscience of fight-or-flight in legal practice

18:32 - The statistics on lawyer mental health and malpractice

20:36 - Reframing the "lose your edge" mentality

23:15 - Why law firm leaders should care about well-being initiatives

26:41 - Using biofeedback to demonstrate coherency

29:12 - The one leadership habit Lexlee would change overnight

30:58 - Emotional intelligence in high-performing legal teams

37:16 - Getting started with culture change

40:04 - The curse of knowledge insight

Mind Over Law | LinkedIn

American Bar Association (ABA) study on lawyer depression and substance abuse

Get connected with the coaching team: hello@thelawyersedge.com

The Lawyer's Edge

Today's episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women's Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month business development program created BY women lawyers for women lawyers. Ignite is a carefully designed business development program containing content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are committed to becoming rainmakers AND supporting the retention and advancement of other women in the profession.

If you are interested in either participating in the program or sponsoring a woman in your firm to enroll, learn more about Ignite and sign up for our registration alerts by visiting www.thelawyersedge.com/ignite.

Neha Sampat is the Founder and CEO of BelongLab, a company that helps clients catalyze fundamental transformation in building cultures of belonging. 

Harnessing the power of social-science data and stories, Neha helps BelongLab clients identify and align their personal and organizational values with their work. She's coached across industries, including legal, business, higher education, tech, startup, entertainment, and nonprofit fields. She is an expert on inclusive leadership and disrupting imposter syndrome, and she runs the top-rated "Owning Your Value" programs to cultivate confidence and nurture authenticity.

Through consulting, training, speaking, and writing, Neha helps organizations create inclusive teams by addressing hidden barriers to belonging. As a former lawyer, Neha has seen firsthand the costly mistakes organizations make regarding their people. That's why she's passionate about holistically closing the gaps in companies' diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging initiatives to create an empowered, inclusive team. 

Recently, there has been a shift towards increased diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts in the hiring and recruiting stages. However, organizations are seeing a high churn rate among these employees because crucial components are missing in the day-to-day strategy. So, what exactly goes wrong after the hiring stage?

A significant factor that can diminish an employee's sense of belonging is imposter syndrome. Although imposter syndrome refers to an individual's feelings of fraud and self-doubt, it often manifests from being "othered" in the workplace. Imposter syndrome and anxiety are exacerbated by systemic racism, unconscious bias, and an employee implicitly being told they don't belong — thus, leading to a high churn rate for those diverse candidates who were revered in the hiring process. How do you tackle imposter syndrome and other factors that affect employees' sense of belonging?

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman sits down with Neha Sampat, Founder and CEO of BelongLab, to talk about busting imposter syndrome for a greater sense of belonging and inclusivity. Neha shares why many DEIB initiatives fail, the importance of non-homogenous leadership and addressing employee pain points, and the tried-and-true strategies for cultivating belonging on an organizational and individual level.

Andrew Laver is a Business Development Manager for Buchanan Ingersoll & Rooney PC, a national law firm with a reputation for providing progressive, industry-leading legal, business, regulatory, and government relations advice to clients. He's also the Treasurer-Elect for the Legal Marketing Association's Board of Directors.

Before becoming the Treasurer-Elect, Andrew held other positions with the Legal Marketing Association (LMA). He was the President of the Metropolitan Philadelphia chapter, the Co-chair for the LMA Governance Committee, and the Co-chair for the 2019 LMA Annual Conference Advisory Committee. In these roles, he served as an advocate for advancing the industry and legal marketing professionals. 

As a legal marketing and business development executive with over 25 years of experience, Andrew knows what it takes to build a team, develop procedures, and find innovative solutions. Since the pandemic hit, Andrew has been transforming his personal and professional spaces. He's taking advantage of new opportunities, finding the motivation to attain his goals, and bringing fresh ideas to elevate proven strategies.

How can you blend existing principles with new ideas to achieve your personal and professional goals? 

As a business development executive and father of two, Andrew Laver initiated significant changes in his professional and personal life at the start of the pandemic. With the opportunity to step away from work now and then, Andrew found the motivation to run a 15K, stick to his fitness goals, and discover strategies to stand out in the workplace. According to Andrew, transforming your life doesn't require a reinvention of the wheel. You just need to take old ideas and put a new spin on them, reshaping the ideas to work best for you or your clients. 

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman interviews Andrew Laver, Business Development Manager at Buchanan Ingersoll & Rooney PC and Treasurer-Elect of the Legal Marketing Association. Andrew shares the inspirational story behind his 15K race, the opportunities legal professionals can take to differentiate themselves, and how to combine proven principles with fresh ideas to transform any area of your life.

Tim Corcoran is a keynote speaker, author, legal commentator, and the Principal of Corcoran Consulting Group.

Tim is also a Trustee and Fellow of the College of Law Practice Management, former President of the Legal Marketing Association and a member of its Hall of Fame, an American Lawyer Research Fellow, a Teaching Fellow at the Australian College of Law's Master in Legal Business program, and a frequent presenter at lawyer retreats and legal conferences.

Tim's mission is to guide law firms and leaders through the profitable disruption of outdated business models — including compensation. With over two decades as a senior corporate executive and a deep understanding of the psychology and economics of change, he knows how to navigate challenging discussions masterfully using actionable advice.

Many compensation models were put into place generations ago — and haven't been updated since. Why is it so important to adjust your compensation plan with the evolving industry, and how can you transition?

The market is changing, forcing law firms of all sizes to demonstrate their expertise in order to sell against steeper competition. Nowadays, compensation should be based more on an individual's skillsets and contributions — rather than seniority. Although a compensation model is not a one-size-fits-all approach, your firm should be looking to reward innovation and talented employees who are winning more work for the company. Fortunately, Tim Corcoran says adjusting a compensation plan is not as complicated as you might think.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman is joined by Tim Corcoran, Principal at Corcoran Consulting Group, to talk about the best ways your firm can update its compensation model. Tim discusses the outdated compensation methods — and why it's important to evolve with the market, changes that impact how law firms should compensate, and where to begin when looking to update your model.

Katie Larkin-Wong is an Associate General Counsel in the Competition and Regulatory Team for Meta, the parent company of Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, and Reality Labs. 

Before joining Meta, Katie spent nearly a decade at Latham & Watkins. She has also held internships at The State of Illinois - Department of Child and Family Services and the US District Court, where she provided support for various legal cases. 

Throughout her entire career, Katie has been a champion for diversity and inclusion. She was on the board of directors at Ms. JD, was appointed to the American Bar Association's Commission on Women in the Profession, and was on the board and Chair of Women's Recruitment for The Associates Committee. Katie is now a voice for many underrepresented lawyers, promoting the advancement of women and minorities in the legal industry.

Diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts have been a growing topic as people realize the urgency for change. So how can you play an active role in this change and help the legal industry develop?

Katie Larkin-Wong, who has been working diligently to promote the advancement of minority groups in the legal space, knows precisely how you can move the needle. Whether you're a senior partner, a young lawyer, or anyone in between, Katie says listening to the community and hearing their needs is vital to drive change. The systemic issues may be significant, but as long as you focus on small steps, you'll make an impact and help push the industry forward. 

On this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman converses with Katie Larkin-Wong, Associate General Counsel in the Competition and Regulatory Team for Meta. Together, they talk about tips for promoting the advancement of women — and other minorities — in law. Katie emphasizes the importance of building a strong community, creating space for underrepresented voices, and issuing an invitation to get a range of people involved in change.

David Kamien is the CEO of Mind-Alliance Systems, which develops software solutions to improve law firms' marketing, business development, and knowledge management. 

David has over 25 years of experience delivering consulting and technology solutions to global law firms, corporate legal departments, government agencies, and NGOs. Through his firm, David offers a weekly newsletter on legal technology and innovation, which is read by hundreds of innovation and knowledge management professionals. 

David believes that in-house counsel and their outside law firms and service providers need to share information continuously in order to mitigate legal risk proactively. That's why he created Mind-Alliance Systems — to build knowledge hubs for lawyers and their firms so they can facilitate a shared situational awareness. 

Why are law firms struggling to collaborate effectively across all people and departments? The answer may lie in a firm's technological solutions and processes.

According to David Kamien, collaboration is often a challenge for law firms because information is not widely — and quickly — accessible. Luckily, Mind-Alliance Systems has a solution that uses machine learning and AI technology to filter news and alerts and pull up relevant information to further knowledge sharing. Their system also offers smart folders with various filters, which is an accessible tool that holds everything a firm knows (and wants to know) about a client. What other developments can help your firm communicate, collaborate, and drive the bottom line?

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman talks with David Kamien, CEO of Mind-Alliance Systems, about investing in solutions to improve business development. David discusses how knowledge sharing is beneficial to firms, the importance of analyzing data to identify growth potential, and the key roles your firm might be missing. David also shares how Mind-Alliance Systems can help your firm work more efficiently, collaborate across areas, and act on a shared solution!

Anca Munteanu is the Marketing Director at Moses & Singer LLP, a firm that provides legal services to prominent companies, individuals, and families. In this role, Anca is responsible for overseeing all aspects of marketing and business development.

Anca has a long successful track record of driving growth and building a corporate brand, with expertise in strategic marketing, niche and industry marketing, marketing training for professionals, among many other areas. Before joining Moses & Singer, Anca was a Marketing Director for NRI, Citrin Cooperman, Mahoney Cohen & Company, and Lazar Levine & Felix LLP. 

Not even her 25 years of industry experience could prepare Anca for what would happen in 2020: the global pandemic. On top of that, Anca encountered severe health issues that heavily impacted her work and personal life. However, she turned these misfortunes around to shift her priorities, strengthen relationships, and put health first.

Across the globe, people have seen their work-life change due to the pandemic. But are these changes permanent? And how do you seek out the good when catastrophe strikes? 

For Anca Munteanu, it's all about strengthening relationships, putting self-care first, and using passion to drive your work. In addition to the shock of a global pandemic, Anca had to undergo brain surgery at the beginning of 2020. This event forced her to reflect and shift her priorities. Instead of overworking herself, Anca found that it benefitted everyone (clients included) to implement a more wellness-centered work-life balance. Her advice to lawyers? Don't put off the health of yourself, your clients, and your business when a crisis hits — use it to deepen the connection of your network and lift each other up.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman is joined by Anca Munteanu, the Marketing Director at Moses & Singer, to talk about turning crisis into opportunity. Anca shares her personal story of turning a health scare into powerful personal development, how to continue developing amidst the pandemic, and the value of integrating wellness practices into your daily life. 

Emily Hirsekorn is a Career Confidence Coach at Hirsekorn Coaching, where she helps lawyers and law students confidently navigate their careers, develop as conscious leaders, and live balanced lives.

After practicing law, Emily quickly moved into law school career development, where she helped hundreds of mid-career and emerging lawyers navigate their careers and confidence over the course of seven years. In January of 2020, she felt compelled to coach others in transforming their lives, so she created Hirsekorn Coaching. Since then, she's helped countless people make decisions consciously and confidently.

Emily's work is rooted in Positive Psychology's hope theory and iPEC's energy leadership principles, designed to help people shift their energy and start to live on their terms. Whether you're figuring out the next steps in your law career, battling self-doubt, or looking to develop a healthy work-life balance, Emily knows precisely how to guide you through any stage of your career.

When you're feeling imposter syndrome or self-doubt creep in, it may be time to focus on a critical element of success: confidence. Building this trait is easier said than done, but Emily Hirsekorn is here to guide you through her strategies. So, what can you do to eliminate self-doubt, boost confidence, and grow your legal career? 

Lawyers tend to stay in their comfort zones and avoid taking risks, but this can leave many feeling unsatisfied with their career growth — or lack thereof. No matter the stage of your career, when your confidence wanes and you're feeling stuck, Emily says it's vital to shift your mindset. Recognize the opportunities in front of you, acknowledge the small wins, and let that energize your confidence. To effectively initiate change, you have to gain a fresh perspective about learning and growth: the unknown can be exciting. 

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman sits down with Emily Hirsekorn, Career Confidence Coach at Hirsekorn Coaching, to talk about why confidence matters. Emily shares how lacking confidence impacts performance, why it's essential to root yourself in a set of values, and her five strategies to boost confidence and achieve the career you desire.

Debbie Epstein Henry is a consultant, podcast host, best-selling author, and public speaker. She is the Founder of DEH Consulting, Speaking, Writing. For the last 20 years, Debbie has traveled across the globe to consult with companies, law and professional service firms, nonprofits, bar associations, law schools, and individuals. She's had engagements in The Hague, the French Senate, London, Vienna, and many other cities.

Debbie's work has been featured in The New York Times, NBC Nightly News, The Wall Street Journal, and NPR. In October 2020, she launched her podcast Inspiration Loves Company, where she explores how to do better in life, work, and everything in-between. 

Debbie is an expert speaker on careers, workplaces, women, and law. She's a longtime advocate for people in the legal industry who feel buried by their careers. Through her consulting and speaking engagements, Debbie's empowering those who are historically stigmatized to discover new opportunities and enter back into their profession in a healthy manner.

The legal profession has a reputation for being overly traditional and, although change comes, it can often feel painfully slow. Under those circumstances, what can progressive, forward-thinking lawyers do to encourage the shift away from conventional, and often outdated, behaviors and policies?

Early in Debbie Epstein Henry's career, she had a serious health scare. Instead of surrendering to the fear, she used the experience to confront the fragility of life and generate change. Debbie began taking more risks and shaping the career she desired. Once she reached out to lawyers in her local area, she realized she was not alone in her desire for an industry transformation. So, Debbie took a plunge and began following her passion for guiding others through work-life issues — building up her 150-person network to over 10,000 lawyers across the nation.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman is joined by Debbie Epstein Henry, consultant, podcast host, author, speaker, and Founder of DEH Consulting, Speaking, Writing. Together, they discuss work-life challenges in the industry, how to take more risks, and what you can do to bring more value to your firm. Plus, Debbie shares how she's reshaping the style of leadership and embracing vulnerability.

Stephen Seckler is a seasoned marketing coach, career coach, and legal recruiter. He is the President of Seckler Attorney Coaching, where he advises attorneys on how to advance their careers and coaches them to take action towards their goals. 

Stephen has over 25 years of experience working with hundreds of partners, associates, and in-house counsel. He has been the Author of the blog Counsel to Counsel since 2005 and more recently started the Counsel to Counsel Podcast, where he interviews leading attorneys and consultants. 

Stephen founded The Next Stage coaching program to help senior lawyers determine what comes next. Succession planning can be challenging, especially for lawyers whose passion and purpose is their career, but Stephen knows precisely how to work with them and help them discover opportunities in life outside of their firms. 

There's a bottleneck in the law firm environment because senior lawyers no longer want to retire. However, reluctance to succession planning can be a strategic mistake for lawyers and their firms. So what are the consequences of not planning for succession? And how can senior attorneys find the drive to prepare for their exit?

Succession planning allows lawyers to make sure that the firm they have today continues to exist in the future with the same — or more — strength. If you don't take the opportunity to plan for succession, clients may leave, behind the scenes lawyers may go, and your firm will cease to exist. Stephen Seckler, an expert and coach in succession planning, reminds us that leaving a firm is not the end of the world. There are so many opportunities out there for senior lawyers, and your firm will be better off when it's prepared for your exit. 

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman talks with Stephen Seckler, President of Seckler Attorney Coaching, about the best practices for succession planning. Stephen shares why succession planning is essential, how senior lawyers can overcome their fears of retirement and help their firms transition, and the value of mentorship and peer-to-peer conversations. Stay tuned!

Verne Harnish is the Founder and CEO of Scaling Up, a global executive education and coaching company with over 180 partners on six continents. Verne chairs the annual ScaleUp Summits and serves on several boards, including Chair of The Riordan Clinic, Co-founder and Chair of Geoversity, and Board Member of the Million Dollar Women community.

Verne is the Founder of the Entrepreneurs' Organization (EO), a peer-to-peer network for entrepreneurs with over 14,000 members worldwide. He is also a keynote speaker and the Author of multiple best-sellers, including Mastering the Rockefeller Habits and Scaling Up — which has been translated into 23 languages and won eight major international book awards.

With his most recent book, Scaling Up Compensation, Verne details the importance of mastering the art of compensation to attract, retain, and motivate talent. Although compensation is one of your largest expenses, designing an effective system can be a strategic advantage.

What are the benefits of designing a non-traditional compensation plan? How do you go about crafting a plan that's right for your business? 

Many businesses within the legal industry abide by the "you eat what you kill" motto. In addition to this, many traditional leaders are not risk-takers, which makes a compensation plan shift seem impossible. However, Verne Harnish is here to share how anyone — including lawyers — can create a fair compensation plan that will attract the right talent, retain top employees, and drive success. 

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman is joined by Verne Harnish, Founder and CEO of Scaling Up, and Co-hosts John Corcoran, Dr. Jeremy Weisz, Joshua Chin, and Adi Klevit to talk about designing a compensation plan that's right for your business. Verne emphasizes the importance of aligning incentives with the customers' needs, shares examples of real-life companies' non-traditional compensation methods, and discusses the steps you can take to differentiate your compensation plan.

Ken Vrana is a Senior Director at Western Alliance's Juris Banking Group. He specializes in crafting customized capital solutions for law firms, alternative legal service providers, and legal tech companies. With a deep expertise in complex banking relationships, he provides his clients with in-depth guidance on operating and fiduciary account setup and ongoing management, including advising on fraud mitigation tactics, advanced payables, and receivable services to streamline overall firm operations.

With over two decades of banking experience, Ken serves as a trusted advisor to stakeholders across the legal community and regularly leverages his extensive network to build meaningful connections. His unmatched dedication to navigating clients' transactional and credit banking needs with ease underscores his long-standing commitment to legal professionals nationwide.

Prior to joining Western Alliance, he had significant tenures at Capital One and Citizens Bank, where he helped clients optimize their operations, drive growth, and enhance profitability. Ken received his Bachelor of Arts from Mount Saint Mary College.

Most lawyers master the practice of law but struggle with the business side. From managing cash flow to protecting client funds from cybercrime, the financial realities of running a law firm present challenges most lawyers were never trained to handle.

Ken Vrana works specifically with law firms to help them make smarter financial decisions and avoid common pitfalls. He sees firsthand how smaller firms are often targeted by fraudsters because they lack the robust protection systems of larger firms, and how many firms leave money on the table by not optimizing their payment processes or banking relationships.

From startup firms hanging their shingle to established practices pursuing growth through mergers, Ken shares practical insights on choosing the right banking partners, setting up proper fraud protection, and why the relationship with your banker might be more important than you think.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge podcast, Elise Holtzman speaks with Ken about protecting your firm's funds, streamlining cash flow, and why treating your banker as a trusted advisor could be one of the smartest business decisions you make.

1:51 - Banking challenges facing large and smaller firms

6:23 - The benefits of using specialized legal banking over a local bank branch

9:43 - Common mistakes by law firms in their banking and financial management choices

14:52 - Guidance for new law firms to start on a solid footing with legal banking

19:21 - Why legal banks like Juris see startup firms as valuable clients

21:56 - Considerations for law firms pursuing growth

23:53 - Culture mismatches as a leading cause of merger failures 

27:17 - Players who should be involved in your firm's growth or merger

29:53 - Reasons for having multiple banking relationships

32:19 - The importance of regularly re-evaluating if a banking relationship is a good fit 

35:40 - Large firms' lack of immunity to financial management problems, despite having more resources

37:24 - The value of banking relationships and understanding their importance

Connect with Ken on LinkedIn

Western Alliance Bank | LinkedIn

Get connected with the coaching team: hello@thelawyersedge.com

The Lawyer's Edge

Today's episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women's Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month business development program created BY women lawyers for women lawyers. Ignite is a carefully designed business development program containing content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are committed to becoming rainmakers AND supporting the retention and advancement of other women in the profession. 

If you are interested in either participating in the program or sponsoring a woman in your firm to enroll, learn more about Ignite and sign up for our registration alerts by visiting www.thelawyersedge.com/ignite.

Daniel Wiig is a sought-after attorney with demonstrated expertise in the legal, nonprofit, and academic sectors. He is also Host of the Amicus Curiae Podcast, a recently-launched series from the New York County Lawyers Association (NYCLA).

By day, Daniel is the Associate General Counsel for the City University of New York (CUNY), where he handles various legal affairs affecting the largest urban university system in the US. By night, he is Chair of the Commercial and Federal Litigation Section for the New York State Bar Association.

As someone heavily involved in various associations, committees, and in-house legal practices, Daniel has a grasp on the benefits and drawbacks when it comes to deciding if in-house or private practice lawyering is the right choice for you. Whichever path you choose, he offers this advice for young and experienced lawyers alike: be involved and efficient in your professional career, but don't overextend yourself.

With so many career-building options, it can be difficult for lawyers to decide which track to take. Should they go the in-house or private practice route? Are industry associations the right way to build a career? What associations should they join? 

Daniel Wiig is here to share how lawyers can figure out their path to improvement. According to Daniel, neither in-house nor private practice are better than the other — it all depends on a lawyer's preferences. However, joining associations can help all lawyers build their network, gain referrals, and develop a positive reputation. 

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast,  Elise Holtzman sits down with Daniel Wiig, Associate General Counsel for the City University of New York and Chair of the Commercial and Federal Litigation Section for the New York State Bar Association. Together, they discuss how Daniel's involvement in the industry has shaped his career, the differences between in-house and private practice, and how bar associations can cater to the new generation of lawyers.

Leslee Cohen is the Founding Partner of AllRise Lawyers, a boutique law firm in Chicago founded 11 years ago that helps startups, entrepreneurs, and small businesses with their early-stage fundraises, day-to-day contract needs, and mergers and acquisitions.

Leslee has over 20 years of experience as a corporate and securities lawyer. Before co-founding her firm, Leslee spent seven years on Wall Street and 13 years at a large law firm in Chicago, where she formed and led the Women's Initiative. 

In addition to providing sophisticated legal advice at fair rates, the team at AllRise cares tremendously about each other and their clients. The firm's six lawyers are all women seizing the opportunity to do high-level legal work while continuing to be hands-on moms, daughters, sisters, wives, and friends.

What does it take to become a Rainmaker? How can you deliver value and build your book of business, even if you're just starting out?

When Leslee Cohen began developing her firm, she realized that she was not alone in her journey; many other leaders fear the challenges of building a business. Now, as a successful founder, Leslee is here to share the steps she took to overcome self-doubt and grow her firm. For Leslee, the most important ways to gain confidence and develop your business are through networking, focusing on your unique selling proposition, and getting involved in industry organizations.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge, Elise Holtzman is joined by Leslee Cohen, Founding Partner of AllRise Lawyers, to talk about developing leadership skills and building a book of business. Leslee shares how her firm is empowering others, advice for other lawyers looking to grow, and the best practices for delivering value to your clients. Stay tuned!

Marc Luber is the Founder of JD Careers Out There and the JD Refugee coaching program. He's also a volunteer board member for the Concern Foundation, a cancer research nonprofit. Before starting JD Careers Out There, Marc used his law background in the music industry and spent the better part of the 2000s as an attorney recruiter in Los Angeles.

JD Careers Out There is a membership site for lawyers, law students, and potential law students who want to have a career they love. As a career coach at JD Careers Out There, Marc helps unfulfilled lawyers across the US get unstuck and figure out their next career move — whether that's leaving law or staying in the profession. 

There was a time when Marc felt unsatisfied in his legal career and wanted to shift to a more creative, fulfilling approach. Now, he's helping others do the same by exploring the possibilities that can transform a career path. Using a three-step formula for career fulfillment, Marc helps navigate the challenges and frustrations that many people are facing in the legal field today. He helps them explore whether it's a time to move on, pivot, or stay the course in their careers.

Sometimes, the law industry can be ruthless. Many lawyers are burned out with the lack of feedback, the rush of the billable hour, and the thankless work that never seems to end. Instead, lawyers want more collaborative work that they can be confident in, and they want their company to invest in them. But how do you know which company will fulfill these wishes? Can you still find happiness in the law industry? 

This is where Marc Luber comes in. He has crossed paths with many unhappy lawyers and helped them explore their options, market themselves, and land a career they love. This can be a frightening process for lawyers, but it will ultimately help you attain a fulfilling career and move towards the future you envision.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge Podcast, Elise Holtzman sits down with Marc Luber, the Founder of JD Careers Out There and the JD Refugee coaching program. Together, they discuss why many lawyers feel unsatisfied in their work, the value of exploring a career change, and Marc's process for helping clients find the right role. Plus, Marc provides a special self-assessment questionnaire to help you figure out the right path!