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Titre
Date
Durée
Just How Bad Can It Get On Election Day?
30 Oct 2026
00:28:46
Days before the 2026 midterms, voting rights attorney and author David Walbert joins Kathryn Rubino to size up the real risk heading into Election Day. It is not the vote count he worries about, it is what happens after a close result: a congressional election contest, the same playbook Trump tried with electoral votes in 2020, now aimed at the House.
Walbert also walks through live legal fights in Alaska and California, and traces today's fights over the Voting Rights Act back to the Supreme Court decisions that enabled Jim Crow a century ago.
Key Takeaways
A close election, not a landslide, is what opens the door to a congressional election contest over House seats.
The Ninth Circuit's split ruling on California's non-citizen voter list shows how little room frivolous election cases now get from this Supreme Court.
Alaska's ballot fight, where the GOP's own filing argues a loss would make the election invalid, is a preview of post-election litigation tactics.
Gutting federal agencies now, as with DOGE's cuts to the CDC, has consequences that outlast the people who get rehired later.
Walbert reads the Supreme Court's rollback of the Voting Rights Act as the modern echo of the Reconstruction-era rulings that helped entrench Jim Crow.
Links and Resources
David Walbert's book, Stealing Elections American Style: https://www.bloomsbury.com/ca/stealing-elections-american-style-9798216391999/
David Walbert's piece for The Guardian on the electoral vote playbook: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/jun/17/trump-voting-rights-midterms
Keywords
David Walbert, voting rights attorney, election law, Stealing Elections American Style, Kathryn Rubino, The Jabot, Above the Law, election integrity, voter suppression, gerrymandering, congressional election contest, Alaska ballot case, Ninth Circuit, Bush v. Gore, Voting Rights Act, civil rights law, Jim Crow history, Supreme Court, Georgia elections, Jon Ossoff
Episode Highlights
[00:04:00 - 00:09:00] Walbert explains why the 2020 electoral vote playbook, not the count itself, worries him most about 2026.
[00:05:00 - 00:06:00] He calls the DOJ under Trump the private law firm of the Republican National Committee.
[00:09:00 - 00:11:00] Georgia's early voting is outpacing 2022, with Jon Ossoff as a major driver.
[00:11:00 - 00:14:00] A divided Ninth Circuit panel rules on a last-minute attempt to segregate California ballots.
[00:14:00 - 00:16:00] Walbert breaks down Alaska's ballot fight between two candidates named Dan Sullivan.
[00:16:00 - 00:19:00] Why gutting agencies like the CDC under DOGE carries consequences that outlast a single administration.
[00:20:00 - 00:26:00] Walbert traces today's Voting Rights Act fights back to Reconstruction-era Supreme Court rulings.
[00:26:00 - 00:29:00] What could actually right the ship, and what still worries him about this Supreme Court.
Why Reproductive Justice Needs Queer Analysis
16 Oct 2026
00:37:02
Professor Carly Thomsen of Rice University, author of Reproductive Justice, Queerly, joins Kathryn Rubino to explain why reproductive justice scholarship and queer theory have historically talked past each other, what that gap misses, and why culture work, not just law and policy, is essential to building reproductive and queer justice in a post-Dobbs world.
Key Takeaways
Reproductive justice, a framework developed by Black feminists in the 1990s, is broader than abortion rights: access matters as much as legality, and reproductive justice also covers parenting, housing, and economic security.
Thomsen argues that culture work, art, public humanities, media, everyday conversation, is essential alongside law and policy, since many people don't feel they have real access to lawmakers or courts.
Queer theorists use "queer" to describe a relationship to normativity, not as a synonym for LGBTQ+ identity: someone can be LGBTQ+ without being queer, and someone heterosexual can live queerly.
In her research on surrogacy campaigns, Thomsen found that centering gay men's family-building stories often sidelined both surrogates themselves and longstanding feminist critiques of the surrogacy industry.
Thomsen sees sports culture as a real, if imperfect, site of cultural change, and pushes back on the recent politicization of trans athletes as a stand-in for "fairness" debates that ignore how unequal sports already are.
Links and Resources
Carly Thomsen: http://carlythomsen.com/
Q&A with Carly Thomsen (UC Press): https://www.ucpress.edu/blog-posts/q-a-with-carly-thomsen-author-of-reproductive-justice-queerly
Carly Thomsen, Reproductive Justice Queerly, reproductive justice, queer theory, Rice University, gender studies, feminist scholarship, Dobbs decision, abortion access, surrogacy, LGBTQ, culture work, academia careers, Above the Law, The Jabot Podcast, reproductive rights, women gender sexuality studies, feminist legal scholarship, post-Dobbs, sports and gender
Episode Highlights
[00:09:00 - 00:11:00] Carly Thomsen describes the moment a college gender studies class and a Monday Night Football watch party converged into a lasting realization about structural sexism.
[00:20:00 - 00:21:00] Thomsen explains why reproductive justice requires more than legal rights, and how access shapes whether a right means anything.
[00:22:00 - 00:24:00] Thomsen describes building a $100,000 reproductive justice mini golf installation to make the issue's reach visible.
[00:31:00 - 00:34:00] How surrogacy advocacy campaigns centered gay men's stories while leaving out surrogates and feminist critique.
From Biglaw To TV Judge
09 Oct 2026
00:23:22
Rachel Juarez, one of the judges on the syndicated court show Hot Bench, joins Kathryn Rubino to trace her path from Quinn Emanuel to a solo family law practice to national television, and to explain what it actually takes to run an unscripted courtroom show, including the AI-fueled lawsuits she's starting to see on set.
Key Takeaways
Rachel Juarez loved big law. She left Quinn Emanuel not because of the culture but for a lifestyle change after having her first child, and says she'd go back if she ever returned to that kind of practice.
Family law was one of the few practice areas where Juarez could realistically source her own clients as a new solo attorney, since her big law litigation clients weren't hers to take with her.
Running even a small firm meant learning an entirely new skill set overnight: billing software, malpractice insurance, IT, and bar compliance, none of which law school teaches.
Juarez got her Hot Bench audition through a client's connection while she was four to five weeks postpartum, and had six days to accept the job once it was offered.
The judge's role is more nuanced than an advocate's: Juarez describes learning to stop "winning" admissions and instead check whether a litigant understood what they'd just conceded.
Litigants are increasingly showing up with AI-generated legal theories, including one who sued because ChatGPT told her, after a leading question, that she was being scammed.
Links and Resources
Hot Bench: https://www.hotbench.tv/
Contact: Hayley.Strichman@paramount.com
Keywords
Hot Bench, Rachel Juarez, TV judge, syndicated court show, big law, Quinn Emanuel, family law, solo practice, law firm administration, judicial temperament, courtroom television, legal career change, AI in litigation, ChatGPT legal advice, Above the Law, The Jabot Podcast, small claims court, legal edutainment, women lawyers, career trajectory
Episode Highlights
[00:10:00 - 00:12:00] Rachel Juarez explains how a chance client referral led to her Hot Bench audition, and how fast the process moved from there.
[00:15:00 - 00:16:00] Juarez describes the moment she realized the judge's job is to check understanding, not win admissions.
[00:20:00 - 00:21:00] The wildest case on Hot Bench: a woman sues the man who let her live in his trailer after it crashed while she was moving it.
[00:21:00 - 00:22:00] A litigant's entire case rested on a leading question she'd asked ChatGPT.
Everything You Don't Know About The First Woman Judge
02 Oct 2026
00:28:23
Professor Tracy Thomas, the CyberLink Chair of Constitutional Law at the University of Akron and author of The First Woman Judge: The Life and Legacy of Florence Allen, joins Kathryn Rubino to tell the story of Florence Allen, the first woman on a federal appellate court, a state supreme court, and a common pleas court in the country, and to explain why a judge considered for the U.S. Supreme Court a dozen times has largely disappeared from legal history.
Key Takeaways
Florence Allen was a trailblazer many times over: first woman common pleas judge in the country, first woman on a state supreme court, and the first woman federal appellate judge.
Allen wasn't a straightforward rights crusader. She was a careful, moderate judge who used long, precedent-heavy opinions to disprove assumptions that women couldn't handle complex legal issues.
She was on the shortlist for the U.S. Supreme Court 12 times across multiple presidents, but never appointed, largely because presidents wanted political loyalists, not judges with her level of judicial experience.
Allen faced constant microaggressions and outright hostility, from being shunned in conference to being denied equal pay, and pushed back deliberately and strategically when it mattered.
Her legacy faded partly because of a decades-long gap before the next woman reached similar positions, and because women's legal history has historically been under-preserved and under-studied.
Links and Resources
Author Site, Professor Tracy Thomas: https://www.proftracythomas.com/
The First Woman Judge (Amazon): https://www.amazon.com/First-Woman-Judge-Legacy-Florence/dp/0520399609
University of Akron Center for Constitutional Law: https://www.uakron.edu/law/ccl/
Florence Allen, first woman judge, Tracy Thomas, University of Akron, legal history, women in law, women's legal history, Supreme Court shortlist, federal appellate judge, state supreme court, judicial history, constitutional law, women judges, Above the Law, The Jabot Podcast, judicial biography, suffrage movement, New Deal jurisprudence, legal academia, women's rights lawyer
Episode Highlights
[00:06:00 - 00:07:00] Tracy Thomas describes discovering Florence Allen was the first woman federal appellate judge, state supreme court justice, and common pleas judge in the country.
[00:12:00 - 00:16:00] Thomas explains why Allen was shortlisted for the Supreme Court 12 times, and why sexism and political calculation kept her off it.
[00:17:00 - 00:20:00] Allen's day-to-day experience of being shunned, mocked, and underpaid as the first woman in every room she entered.
[00:25:00 - 00:27:00] Why Allen's legacy is more than a "first woman" footnote, and how it reshaped representation on the bench.
If You Can Imagine It, The Supreme Court Used To Be Even More Political
25 Sep 2026
00:23:02
Historian Rachel Shelden, author of The Political Supreme Court: A Forgotten History, joins Kathryn Rubino to unpack how deeply political the Supreme Court actually was for its first century, why the Court's modern claim to be apolitical is a relatively recent invention, and why understanding that history matters for today's debates over court reform and legitimacy.
Key Takeaways
The Supreme Court was designed to be a political institution: 19th-century justices rode circuit, participated in state and local politics, ran for office, and even wrote legislation and presidential addresses.
Lifetime tenure didn't always mean staying on the Court. Many justices left for other roles they saw as equal or better, including David Davis, who left the Court to become a U.S. Senator from Illinois in 1877.
The Court's image as an apolitical, isolated institution developed largely at the end of the 19th century and through the 20th, driven in part by the professionalization of lawyers and a reframing of the Constitution as a legal rather than political document.
Marbury v. Madison's reputation as the moment the Court became apolitical is, according to Shelden, more myth than history, a narrative that took hold around the Court's 1890 centennial.
Originalism claims historical grounding, but Shelden argues it often isn't doing rigorous history. It selectively cites the past rather than engaging with the full, contested range of 19th-century constitutional debate.
Links and Resources
The Political Supreme Court: A Forgotten History: https://uncpress.org/9781469697130/the-political-supreme-court/
Rachel Shelden: https://rachelshelden.com/
Contact: rshelden@psu.edu
Keywords
Supreme Court, legal history, constitutional history, originalism, judicial legitimacy, Marbury v. Madison, court reform, jurisdiction stripping, court packing, term limits, Rachel Shelden, Penn State, political history, legal historian, Above the Law, The Jabot Podcast, judicial politics, circuit riding, John Roberts, constitutional interpretation
Episode Highlights
[00:02:00 - 00:04:00] Rachel Shelden details how 19th-century justices rode circuit, ran for office, and were deeply embedded in politics.
[00:09:30 - 00:11:00] Shelden unpacks the irony of John Roberts's "balls and strikes" framing given the Court's political origins.
[00:13:00 - 00:15:00] Why Marbury v. Madison's status as the birth of an apolitical Court is more myth than history.
[00:17:00 - 00:19:00] Shelden explains the rhetorical sleight of hand behind originalism's selective use of history.
DEI Efforts On The Non-Lawyer Side Of The Legal Industry
18 Sep 2026
00:28:00
Legal marketing veterans John Byrne (Gould & Ratner) and Toni Wells (Bespoke Marketing Partners) join Kathryn Rubino to trace how legal marketing evolved from an afterthought into a real career path, why "outcomes" is replacing "value" as AI reshapes the billable hour, and why DEI progress for business professionals inside law firms still lags behind the progress made for attorneys.
Key Takeaways
Legal marketing has shifted from something people fell into to a career path people choose intentionally, driven in large part by the growth of the Legal Marketing Association (LMA).
Services marketing, and legal marketing especially, is about selling an experience and a relationship, not a product you can hand someone.
AI and the shakiness of the billable hour are pushing firms toward marketing outcomes instead of vague "value," a shift John Byrne calls overdue and still far from complete.
Strong client service, not just new business, is the real driver of law firm revenue: at Byrne's firm, 80% of income is recurring business from existing clients.
Business professionals in law firms, especially those from underrepresented groups, often have less access to mentorship and informal "on-the-job" knowledge than attorneys do, leaving a real gap in advancement opportunities.
Links and Resources
Toni Wells, Bespoke Marketing Partners: https://www.bespokemarketingpartners.com/about
John Byrne, Gould & Ratner: https://www.gouldratner.com/bio/john-m-byrne
Keywords
legal marketing, Legal Marketing Association, LMA, DEI, legal industry, law firm business development, chief business development officer, Above the Law, billable hour, value versus outcomes, AI in law firms, client service, services marketing, professional development, law firm mentorship, legal industry diversity, business professionals in law firms, law firm leadership, Gould & Ratner, Bespoke Marketing Partners
Episode Highlights
[00:08:00 - 00:09:00] John Byrne argues the industry is finally shifting from selling "value" to selling outcomes, thanks to AI and pressure on the billable hour.
[00:12:00 - 00:13:00] John Byrne explains why client service, not new business, is the real engine of law firm revenue.
[00:14:00 - 00:16:00] John Byrne breaks down how risk-averse lawyers can talk about outcomes without overpromising results.
[00:22:00 - 00:24:00] Toni Wells on why mentorship gaps hit business professionals from underrepresented groups especially hard.
Giving Voice to the Voiceless
11 Sep 2026
00:30:06
Kathryn Rubino sits down with Amos Guiora, law professor at the University of Utah's S.J. Quinney College of Law and director of the Bystander Initiative, to talk about his forthcoming book, Enablers: Normalizing the Unimaginable. The conversation traces his path from an IDF JAG Corps officer to a legal scholar building a case for criminalizing the people who knew about harm, had the power to stop it, and chose not to.
KEY TAKEAWAYS
An enabler is legally distinct from a perpetrator. Guiora defines the enabler as someone who knows of harm because of their position or authority, is able to prevent it, and instead protects the institution or the leader over the vulnerable person.
Bystander law has a gap. Legal systems have criminalized the bystander who witnesses harm and does nothing, but not the enabler who actively protects the person or institution causing it. Guiora's work is aimed at closing that gap.
Institutions rarely pay a real price. When a university settles for hundreds of millions of dollars, insurance covers it, not individuals. Guiora argues that until specific people face criminal accountability, mandatory-reporter training and bystander videos stay performative.
The pattern repeats across very different settings. From Larry Nassar at Michigan State to the Catholic Church to Jeffrey Epstein's circle to Israel's handling of the October 7th hostages, Guiora sees the same structure: a perpetrator who could only act because an ecosystem of enablers let him.
His new book names names. Drawing on off-the-record access to former senior Israeli officials, Guiora documents specific people in Netanyahu's inner circle and the political calculations behind their decisions not to push for a hostage deal.
Enablers: Normalizing the Unimaginable (forthcoming) - Amos Guiora
The Crime of Complicity: The Bystander and the Holocaust - Amos Guiora
Armies of Enablers - Amos Guiora
Above the Law tips line: tips@abovethelaw.com, subject line "The Jabot"
KEYWORDS
Amos Guiora, Bystander Initiative, enablers, bystander law, campus sexual abuse, Larry Nassar, Catholic Church abuse, Jeffrey Epstein enablers, Epstein files, October 7th, Israeli hostages, Netanyahu, hostage endangerment law, mandatory reporter training, institutional accountability, Above the Law, The Jabot podcast, Kathryn Rubino, legal academia, IDF JAG Corps, Holocaust bystander
EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS
[00:00:37 - 00:01:59] Guiora on the blue pamphlet his mother brought home and the fate of his career being sealed at age 11
[00:04:00 - 00:04:59] The origin of the Bystander Initiative: a marathon-training question about the Holocaust
[00:09:11 - 00:10:00] Guiora explains why the initiative targets criminalizing enablers, not just bystanders
[00:13:05 - 00:14:00] Guiora's working definition of an enabler
[00:15:00 - 00:16:00] Why bystander training videos are "check the box" and performative
[00:20:52 - 00:21:30] Why Guiora decided to name enablers by name in the new book
[00:23:56 - 00:24:40] The political calculation behind enablers protecting Netanyahu
[00:29:00 - 00:29:40] The Holocaust survivor's letter: "You give voice to the voiceless"
What It's Really Like To Be General Counsel
04 Sep 2026
00:27:13
Summary
Chaka Patterson, founder and CEO of Chaka Strategy and author of The Hot Seat: Mastering the Public Company General Counsel Role, joins Kathryn Rubino to unpack what actually separates a successful general counsel from one who's gone within five years. His answer has almost nothing to do with legal skill and everything to do with becoming the quarterback the C-suite calls first.
Key Takeaways
Legal expertise is table stakes, not a differentiator. Every lawyer in the building is technically proficient. What sets a GC apart is emotional intelligence, executive presence, and the ability to translate legal ideas for a non-lawyer audience.
A crisis is never just a legal problem. When the stock drops or an activist investor sends a letter, the GC has to think PR, markets, employee communications, and legal all at once, not wait for someone else to own the rest.
The GC is the quarterback, not a specialist with "their piece." New in-house lawyers often assume the CFO owns markets and comms owns PR. In reality, the general counsel is expected to coordinate all of it, holistically.
The biggest mistake new GCs make is treating themselves as the final word on legal issues, and treating business colleagues the way they treated outside clients, or worse, the way they treated targets in government work.
Turnover in the GC seat is steep, over 40% within five years, because "last call" lawyers who just dispense legal advice get replaced. "First call" lawyers, the ones the CEO trusts as an advisor on everything, tend to stay.
Send tips or guest suggestions: tips@abovethelaw.com (subject line: The Jabot)
Keywords
general counsel, in-house counsel, GC turnover, public company GC, legal leadership, C-suite, business acumen, emotional intelligence, executive presence, trusted advisor, law firm to in-house transition, crisis management, corporate legal department, chief legal officer, legal operations, The Hot Seat, Chaka Strategy, Above the Law, The Jabot
Episode Highlights Episode Highlights
Timestamps
Highlight
[00:03:53 - 00:05:00]
Chaka on the biggest surprise of going in-house: legal expertise is just table stakes.
[00:07:50 - 00:08:53]
Why the GC has to be the one coordinating PR, markets, and legal, not hoping someone else has it covered.
[00:08:53 - 00:10:57]
Chaka's "controversial take": why he'd be reluctant to hand a first-time GC role to a law firm partner with no in-house experience.
[00:12:09 - 00:14:39]
What Chaka would look for as a CEO hiring a general counsel: a business person first.
[00:14:39 - 00:16:00]
The two mistakes new GCs make most often, and why they frustrate the business.
[00:16:53 - 00:17:56]
What Chaka learned about his own legal department once he became a consumer of legal services as Exelon's treasurer.
[00:21:35 - 00:23:23]
Why over 40% of general counsel are gone within five years.
[00:23:23 - 00:23:53]
The line between the "first call" lawyer and the "last call" lawyer.
[00:23:53 - 00:26:53]
Chaka's three-part advice for lawyers building toward the GC seat: high EQ, learn the business, and find non-lawyer audiences to practice on.
Building A Legal Practice That Fits Your Life
27 Jul 2026
00:23:52
Summary
Kara Maciel always knew she wanted to be a lawyer, and a high school trip to Washington, DC sealed the deal. What she didn't plan for was building her own firm. In this episode, the Conn, Maciel & Carey co-founder talks with Kathryn Rubino about the years she spent paying off law school loans early to buy herself flexibility, and how that discipline let her take a real risk later: leaving a comfortable partnership to start something new.
The decision crystallized during back-to-back parental leaves, when Kara and her future co-founder each returned from leave with the same idea. Twelve years later, the firm has offices across the country, and Kara talks through what she wishes she'd known about the business side of running a firm, how she's used technology to standardize billing across offices, and why she believes boutique practice offers something Big Law structurally can't.
Key Takeaways
Paying down law school loans aggressively in your early career years buys flexibility later, not just debt relief.
Opening a firm requires business skills most lawyers never learn in practice; hire for that gap or plan to learn it fast.
Complementary practice areas and complementary skill sets among co-founders matter as much as shared values.
Firm growth can be organic and still be strategic: expand where clients and trusted partners already are.
Boutique firms compete on relationship and rate transparency, not just lower prices.
boutique law firm, starting a law firm, employment law, labor law, law firm founder, women law firm owners, legal entrepreneurship, law school loans, law firm culture, law firm growth, big law versus boutique, workplace safety law, law firm billing, legal technology, AI in law firms, law firm partnership, career advice for lawyers, women in law, Above the Law, The Jabot Podcast
Episode Highlights
[00:01:15 - 00:02:00] Kara traces her decision to become a lawyer back to a high school trip to Washington, DC.
[00:04:15 - 00:05:00] Why she saved aggressively in her first years of practice instead of spending like a typical young associate.
[00:08:00 - 00:09:30] The maternity leave story behind founding Conn, Maciel & Carey.
[00:10:30 - 00:11:30] "You're a lawyer, you know how to make rain, but you don't know how to run a business."
[00:13:15 - 00:14:45] How the firm's California and Midwest offices came together through existing relationships, not a strategic plan.
[00:17:00 - 00:18:30] Why the firm runs a deliberately long hiring process to protect its culture.
[00:19:15 - 00:20:15] What boutique practice offers that Big Law structurally can't: rate control and direct client relationships.
[00:21:00 - 00:22:00] How the firm is using AI to standardize timekeeping and billing across offices.
The Battle To Protect Ethical Prosecutors
24 Jul 2026
00:28:18
Summary
Iris Eytan didn't set out to become a criminal defense lawyer. She went to law school to help people as a mental health advocate, then followed her clients from shuttered psychiatric institutions into the jails and prisons where many of them ended up. What started as constitutional work in its most human form eventually became decades of criminal defense, including two cases she calls her bookends: a jail deputy wrongfully accused of murdering his wife, and Barry Morphew, a case that exposed how far some prosecutors will go to protect a conviction.
Those cases pushed Iris to found Protect Ethical Prosecutors, a reform campaign aimed at ending prosecutorial misconduct. In this conversation, she and Kathryn Rubino talk through the scale of the problem, why prosecutors are effectively immune from civil suits, and why the legal profession's self-policing system keeps failing the people it's supposed to protect.
Key Takeaways
Nearly 4,000 documented exonerations exist in the US, and more than one in three involved prosecutorial misconduct like hiding evidence of innocence.
A 1976 Supreme Court case, Imbler v. Pachtman, gave prosecutors absolute immunity from civil lawsuits, even for intentional or reckless misconduct.
Fewer than 2% of prosecutors tied to wrongful convictions have ever faced employment discipline or bar sanctions, and almost none have faced criminal charges.
Self-policing fails because judges, defense lawyers, and even fellow prosecutors are reluctant to report misconduct within a system they all depend on.
Iris founded PEP to push for an independent oversight commission with real enforcement power, not just recommendations.
prosecutorial misconduct, Protect Ethical Prosecutors, PEP, Iris Eytan, prosecutorial immunity, Imbler v. Pachtman, wrongful conviction, exonerations, Brady violation, criminal defense lawyer, public defender, Barry Morphew, criminal justice reform, attorney regulation, legal ethics, civil rights law, ADA, mental health law, accountability in prosecution, Above the Law, The Jabot Podcast
Episode Highlights
[00:00:35 - 00:01:45] Iris describes seeing a young lawyer advocate for a psychiatric patient, the moment that redirected her career.
[00:03:30 - 00:04:15] Why the closure of mental health institutions pushed her clients into jails and prisons, and pushed her into public defense.
[00:07:30 - 00:08:30] "I was shocked when I encountered prosecutors who wanted to win more than do the right thing and broke the law."
[00:10:00 - 00:11:30] The email that proved a DA knew a death was a suicide, filed years after clearing it, then charged the husband with murder anyway.
[00:13:00 - 00:14:15] How prosecutors in the Morphew case hid DNA evidence pointing to other suspects.
[00:16:45 - 00:17:30] Nearly 4,000 documented exonerations, with an estimated 100,000 more innocent people still in prison.
[00:19:15 - 00:20:15] How the Imbler decision made prosecutors the only legal professionals who cannot be sued for misconduct.
[00:21:30 - 00:22:45] The Deb Nichols case: a 17-year-old murder conviction unraveling over a hidden arson report.
[00:25:45 - 00:26:45] Why an independent commission, not more reminders to follow the rules, is the fix Iris is pushing for
Biglaw Partner Dishes On Her Unique Path To Partnership
22 Jul 2026
00:24:48
Summary
Gloria Park always wanted to be a storyteller. She just didn't expect to find that career in litigation. In this episode, the Susman Godfrey partner talks with Kathryn Rubino about growing up in a first-generation immigrant family, choosing law school because it let her "tell stories for a living," and the mantra, why not me, that carried her through six tough years as an associate to partnership.
They cover what actually separates strong litigators (hint: it's not the closing argument), why Park chose a litigation-only boutique that hires exclusively from federal clerkships, and how she balances high-stakes cases with church, choir, and a new kickboxing habit. Park also shares her most memorable war story: taking her first deposition eight weeks into practice, alone, against a firm's global head of litigation.
Key Takeaways
Litigation is storytelling within strict limits: the facts don't move, but how you frame them does.
A "why not me" mindset can replace the imposter syndrome that comes with being the first in your family in Big Law.
Attention to detail, not courtroom theatrics, is what actually separates strong litigators.
Susman Godfrey hires only federal law clerks, which gives its litigators a shared foundation and an edge in the courtroom.
Pro bono work outside your paying caseload can sharpen your skills as a litigator, not just your firm's PR
Big Law partnership, litigation career, Susman Godfrey, federal clerkship, first-generation lawyer, women in law, litigation boutique, associate to partner, legal storytelling, deposition tips, pro bono litigation, work-life balance lawyer, Above the Law, The Jabot Podcast, career advice for lawyers, patent litigation, jury trial strategy, law school advice, big law culture, legal career path
Episode Highlights
[00:00:35 - 00:01:15] Gloria explains why storytelling, not the law itself, drew her to law school.
[00:03:45 - 00:04:30] "Facts are facts. You can't really change it," but there's always a way to frame them accurately.
[00:06:45 - 00:07:15] The "why not me" mantra that got Gloria through Big Law without a family roadmap.
[00:08:45 - 00:09:15] Why attention to detail, not theatrics, makes a strong litigator.
[00:11:15 - 00:12:15] Why Gloria chose a litigation-only boutique over a full-service firm.
[00:16:15 - 00:17:30] Gloria's first deposition, taken alone eight weeks into her career.
[00:19:00 - 00:20:15] How church, choir, and kickboxing keep Gloria grounded.
[00:20:45 - 00:22:00] The pro bono case representing the parents of a girl who died in CBP custody.
[00:23:35 - 00:24:20] Gloria's advice: "Go for it. Have that why not me mentality."
What Nobody Tells You About Law School
17 Jul 2026
00:25:13
Summary
Shaun Ossei-Owusu didn't go to law school to become a lawyer. After a PhD in African American Studies at Berkeley and a fellowship at the American Bar Foundation, he wanted the technical language of law so he could translate what he'd already been studying: how the legal system actually treats people, versus how it says it does. That instinct became his new book, "Law on Trial."
In this conversation, Kathryn Rubino and Ossei-Owusu dig into what "thinking like a lawyer" costs, from law school curricula that leave out issues like civil asset forfeiture, to big law and government lawyering, where the pressure to win can crowd out the question of whether winning was the right outcome. They close with practical advice for lawyers trying to stay honest with themselves about the trade-offs they're making.
Key Takeaways
Legal training builds what Ossei-Owusu calls a "tragically necessary skill": separating law from moral and social context. It's useful, and it's also easy to overcorrect.
Core law school subjects often skip the inequality issues baked into them. Property class rarely covers civil asset forfeiture, even though it's a bigger part of practice than most casebooks suggest.
Big law economics can quietly work against legitimate discrimination claims, not just frivolous ones, because of who's paying the bill.
City and county law departments face a similar tension: they enforce consumer and housing protections while also defending against civil rights claims brought under the same kinds of laws.
Lawyers can protect their values by setting ethical red lines before financial pressure sets in, not after.
legal education, law school, thinking like a lawyer, legal ethics, big law, public interest law, civil asset forfeiture, law professor, legal academia, Shaun Ossei-Owusu, Law on Trial, University of Pennsylvania, legal profession, government lawyers, municipal law departments, law firm culture, first-generation lawyers, social justice law, Above the Law, The Jabot Podcast
Episode Highlights
[00:00:49 - 00:04:20] Ossei-Owusu explains his winding path from the Bronx to a PhD to law school.
[00:04:56 - 00:06:51] Why mentoring future lawyers, including those headed to big law, matters to him.
[00:06:51 - 00:08:35] The gap in law school literature that inspired Law on Trial.
[00:10:46 - 00:13:19] What "thinking like a lawyer" really means, and its necessary trade-offs.
[00:13:19 - 00:14:33] The civil asset forfeiture example most property classes skip.
[00:15:50 - 00:17:35] How big law economics can quietly undermine legitimate discrimination claims.
[00:17:35 - 00:19:16] The civil rights tension inside city and county law departments.
[00:20:04 - 00:22:20] Practical advice for lawyers weighing big law against their values.
[00:22:20 - 00:24:01] Why ethical red lines matter more than good intentions.
The Link Between Financial Literacy and Social Justice
15 Jul 2026
00:25:28
Summary
Courtney Teasley, a criminal trial attorney turned certified business coach, author, and speaker, joins Kathryn Rubino to talk about the case that shaped her career: her own mother's, overcharged as a drug seller instead of a user. Courtney traces how that experience, and a mentor who built a practice on her own terms, pushed her into criminal defense and, eventually, out of full-time practice.
The conversation covers why she left the courtroom for coaching and advocacy work, the business lessons law school never taught her, and how her book series, The Easy Way to Learn Your Rights, translates legal literacy into plain, bilingual language for the people who need it most.
Key Takeaways
Courtney traces her path to criminal defense directly back to her mother being overcharged as a drug seller instead of a user, a decision that shaped how she practices and teaches law.
The pressure of high-stakes cases never fully disappears; the lawyers who care the most are the ones who keep showing up despite it.
Courtney left full-time practice after realizing one-on-one casework moves too slowly to shift the systemic patterns behind mass incarceration.
A CliftonStrengths certification helped Courtney separate her zone of excellence, practicing law, from her zone of genius, teaching and advocacy.
Courtney built her book series and coaching practice around plain, bilingual language, arguing legal jargon keeps clients from understanding their own cases.
Links and Resources
Above the Law: https://abovethelaw.com/
The Jabot Podcast: https://abovethelaw.com/tag/the-jabot-podcast/
Courtney Teasley: https://site-hy4wms4ce.godaddysites.com/
Email the Jabot: tips@abovethelaw.com
Keywords
criminal defense attorney, legal literacy, financial literacy, social justice, business coaching for lawyers, women in law, Above the Law, The Jabot Podcast, DAMM community, CliftonStrengths, legal entrepreneurship, law practice management, systemic inequality, mass incarceration, career change for lawyers, Black lawyers, legal author, criminal justice reform, pro se litigants, elbow counsel
Episode Highlights
[00:01:00-00:02:00] Courtney explains how one visit to a hospital as a teenager ended her plan to become a doctor and pointed her toward law instead.
[00:02:00-00:03:00] Courtney traces her path to criminal defense back to her mother being overcharged as a drug seller instead of a user.
[00:09:00-00:11:00] Courtney describes using a CliftonStrengths certification to find her zone of genius outside of practicing law.
[00:12:00-00:14:00] Courtney says the biggest surprise of leaving practice was realizing how few lawyers run their firms like real businesses.
[00:17:00-00:19:00] Courtney explains why she built her own intellectual property in plain, bilingual language instead of legal jargon.
[00:20:00-00:22:00] Courtney lays out how clients can act as elbow counsel to their own lawyers without going fully pro se.
[00:22:00-00:24:00] Courtney's advice for lawyers who want to build a business and keep their ethical grounding at the same time.
What It Takes for Women to Break Through in Litigation
13 Jul 2026
00:22:35
Summary
Kelly Grigsby Jones and Laurie Avery, litigation partners at Perez Morris, sit down with Kathryn Rubino to talk about building a career in trial work. They trace their paths into law, the gap between courtroom TV and courtroom reality, and how they've made an unpredictable schedule sustainable over decades of practice.
The conversation turns practical: how young lawyers can get their first real trial experience, what mentors actually look for in an associate, and how to handle a case when the best exhibit goes missing mid-trial. Both partners share candid advice for women navigating litigation, plus the one habit they say matters more than talent: preparation.
Key Takeaways
Early trial experience often comes from smaller markets or litigation-heavy firms willing to hand associates low-stakes cases to learn on.
Being proactive, not waiting to be asked, is what separates associates who get pulled into bigger opportunities from those who don't.
Preparation is the one thing a lawyer can fully control, even when the outcome, a missing exhibit or a directed verdict, isn't.
Good mentors highlight a mentee's strengths and give honest, respectful redirection when trial work isn't the right fit.
A sustainable trial career means accepting an uneven schedule: early some days, late into the night on others.
Links and Resources
Above the Law: https://abovethelaw.com/
The Jabot Podcast: https://abovethelaw.com/tag/the-jabot-podcast/
Perez Morris: https://www.perezmorris.com/
Email the Jabot: tips@abovethelaw.com
Keywords
women in litigation, trial lawyers, legal career advice, Perez Morris, Above the Law, The Jabot Podcast, women in law, litigation partners, trial experience, first chair, second chair, mentorship in law, law firm associates, courtroom preparation, women trial attorneys, legal industry podcast, career in law, litigation career path, women partners law firm, trial advocacy
Episode Highlights
[00:01:00-00:02:00] Laurie explains how a dismissive comment from a colleague, "you don't need to know that," pushed her toward law school.
[00:07:00-00:09:00] Kelly describes jumping into plea deals and bond hearings early because her rural county had few attorneys to go around.
[00:10:00-00:12:00] Kelly recounts winging cross-examination after showing up to trial without her one key exhibit.
[00:12:00-00:13:00] Laurie tells the story of winning a directed verdict in seconds after weeks of preparation.
[00:16:00-00:17:00] Kelly explains why she calls junior lawyers "colleagues," not associates, in front of clients.
[00:19:00-00:20:00] Laurie draws the line between lawyers built for first chair and those who thrive in second chair.
[00:22:00-00:23:00] Kelly and Laurie each give their one piece of advice for lawyers starting out in trial work.
What Lawyers Really Need To Know About Marketing
06 Jul 2026
00:23:28
Summary
Kathryn Rubino sits down with Deborah Farone, one of the most experienced legal marketing and business development advisors in the country, to dig into what actually drives sustainable practice growth. Farone traces her career from a PR firm handling Milbank's account in the 1990s through Chief Marketing Officer roles at Debevoise and Cravath, to running her own advisory practice today.
The conversation covers what big law gets wrong about business development, why existing clients are the most overlooked growth lever, how law firms are finally starting to teach associates what was once left unspoken, and what it really means for women lawyers to develop business on their own terms. Farone also addresses the industry's consolidation wave, the squeeze on mid-size firms, and why the biggest strategic risk for any law firm right now is standing still.
Key Takeaways
Business development starts with strategy, not tactics. Know where you want to go before you pick any tool or activity.
Most business comes from existing clients. Growing those relationships and getting referrals from them is more powerful than chasing new names.
The minders/finders/grinders model is outdated. Every lawyer at every level is now expected to develop business in some form.
Women who build thriving practices do it in ways that feel authentic to them — opera evenings, hikes with clients — not by mimicking someone else's playbook.
The biggest risk for any law firm is complacency. GCs want firms to come to them with intelligence and AI guidance, not the other way around.
• Breaking Ground: How Successful Women Lawyers Build Thriving Practices — Deborah Farone
Keywords
legal marketing, business development for lawyers, law firm marketing strategy, women lawyers business development, Deborah Farone, Breaking Ground book, legal rainmakers, origination credit, law firm business development, boutique law firms, big law marketing, Jabot podcast, Above the Law podcast, legal operations, law firm growth, existing clients strategy, authentic networking lawyers, law firm compensation, mid-size law firms, GC relationships
Episode Highlights
[00:01:00 — 00:01:25] Deborah explains why working on the Milbank PR account made her want to move into legal marketing full-time.
[00:02:16 — 00:02:57] How BD at Cravath included running a competitive intelligence unit to track potential new matters, something she couldn't have predicted 30 years earlier.
[00:05:43 — 00:06:09] Why law schools are finally teaching business development, and what a class at Columbia Law looked like.
[00:07:07 — 00:07:51] The counterintuitive truth: your best source of new business is the clients you already have, not the shiny new prospect.
[00:09:07 — 00:09:56] Deborah's case for why developing a book of business is like putting money in the bank, and why it gives women lawyers more freedom and mobility.
[00:10:42 — 00:11:41] The authentic BD methods of successful women lawyers: opera evenings with clients in Milan, group hiking trips, anything that feels genuine.
[00:17:45 — 00:18:42] The squeeze on mid-size firms: not niche enough, not global enough, and often without the marketing resources to compete.
[00:19:28 — 00:19:54] Dan Troy's line: "You can't be Wachtell in every practice." Why trying to be everything to everyone destroys credibility with clients.
[00:21:25 — 00:22:18] GCs don't want to be the ones telling their law firms what legal trends are. They want their firms to come to them with intelligence and AI guidance.
Medicine's Monopoly Problem
29 Jun 2026
00:30:12
Episode Summary
Tahir Amin started out wanting to play professional football in England. He found law instead, and specifically intellectual property law in the early 1990s, when the field was still new enough to feel cutting edge. After a decade of commercial IP practice in the UK and the US, he moved to India in 2004 to understand what the new global IP rules were doing to the people they never accounted for. He arrived just as India was being required to comply with WTO patent rules that would affect access to HIV medicines costing tens of thousands of dollars a year. That experience led him to co-found I-MAK in 2006.
In this conversation, Amin walks Rubino through the political economy of drug patents: how neoliberal policy from the late 1970s onward handed control of publicly funded research to private companies, how those companies built out sprawling patent portfolios to delay generic competition, and how the word "innovation" became a shield against any real scrutiny. He also talks about what I-MAK's work has achieved, the blowback it has faced, and why he considers himself a "cynical optimist" who believes the long game is the only game worth playing.
Key Takeaways
Patent stacking is the norm, not the exception. Novo Nordisk filed more than 320 patent applications around the single active ingredient in the Ozempic family of drugs.
1 in 3 Americans are skipping doses or cutting pills to afford their medications. This is a policy problem rooted in decisions made over the past four decades.
The word "innovation" replaced "invention" deliberately around 1976–77, allowing corporations to privatize public-funded knowledge and charge rent for it.
I-MAK's public patent database puts the evidence on the table. The pharma industry attacks the messenger rather than engaging the data.
Incrementalism is the system's release valve. Real change requires playing the long game, not chasing the next quick win.
Pharma Monopoly: The Battle for the Future of Medicines by Tahir Amin (book)
Keywords
pharmaceutical patents, drug pricing, patent monopoly, medicine access, IP law, I-MAK, Tahir Amin, patent stacking, Ozempic patents, Novo Nordisk, innovation myth, neoliberalism, affordable medicine, generic drugs, biosimilars, patent reform, WTO patent law, drug affordability, pharma policy, Jabot podcast
Episode Highlights
00:08:18 - 00:09:16
Amin explains the founding of I-MAC and the need to challenge systems treating public knowledge as monopoly property.
00:12:49 - 00:13:33
The survey data: 1 in 3 Americans are skipping or rationing medications, a Western problem as much as a global one.
00:16:12 - 00:16:55
Novo Nordisk's 320+ patent applications on the Ozempic active ingredient, and how that data changed the Congressional conversation.
00:21:52 - 00:24:54
The linguistic shift from "invention" to "innovation" after the late 1970s, and why the distinction matters for policy.
00:30:27 - 00:31:32
Why incrementalism is the system's release valve, and the case for committing to real, structural change over the long run.
Building A Judicial Legacy
27 Jun 2026
00:26:53
Episode Summary
Judge Nushin Sayfie traces her path from a fifth-grade classroom where a teacher named her attorney general, to 14 years defending clients who couldn't afford a lawyer, to the bench of Florida's 11th Judicial Circuit. She talks with Kathryn Rubino about what she gave up to become a judge, what she has never stopped missing, and what finally pushed her to apply for a vacancy she hadn't planned on.
She's direct about the realities most judicial candidates don't advertise: the pressure of running for election, the vulnerability of every public decision, and the steep learning curve of developing the thick skin the job demands. On women in law, she's equally clear. The numbers at the top still don't reflect what's happening in law school classrooms, and that gap doesn't close without honest conversation and real mentorship.
Key Takeaways
The move from trial lawyer to judge means trading the high of winning for a different kind of authority. Most honest judges will tell you they miss it.
Florida's system of judicial elections creates genuine pressure on sitting judges. Any judge who claims otherwise has probably already decided to retire.
Preparation is irreplaceable. No natural talent substitutes for doing the work, and that's as true in the courtroom as anywhere.
Mentorship isn't optional. It's one of the clearest predictors of who makes it to the top of the profession, especially for women.
'Use the robe.' Authority doesn't require volume. The most effective leaders in any room are the ones who bring the temperature down.
Judge Nushin Sayfie, The Jabot Podcast, Kathryn Rubino, women in law, public defender, judicial career, Florida judge, Chief Judge, 11th Judicial Circuit, legal mentorship, judicial elections, trial lawyer, women in leadership, legal career advice, Above the Law, courtroom experience, legal profession, women attorneys, judicial temperament, work-life balance in law
Episode Highlights
[00:00:24 - 00:01:36] Judge Sayfie traces her interest in law to a fifth-grade teacher who named her attorney general of the class government.
[00:02:10 - 00:04:17] On 14 years as a public defender, and why defending people who couldn't afford a lawyer felt like the right fit.
[00:04:29 - 00:06:04] The baptism conversation that led to an unexpected application for a judicial vacancy, decided on the drive home.
[00:07:54 - 00:09:09] On the unique high of winning as a trial lawyer, and what it's like to sit on the other side of that feeling.
[00:09:47 - 00:11:08] On developing thick skin, making decisions under public scrutiny, and why judges who avoid deciding are failing.
[00:13:30 - 00:16:31] On running for judicial election in Florida and surviving unfair media coverage as Chief Judge.
[00:17:31 - 00:18:03] On women still not reaching the top despite filling more than half of law school seats across the country.
[00:22:05 - 00:24:05] The death penalty war story: a client who refused to testify mid-trial, dismantling months of case preparation.
[00:25:17 - 00:26:16] On being the calming presence in any room: 'Use the robe. Don't raise your voice.'
This Harvard Law School Grad Has The Progressive Answer To FedSoc
13 Mar 2026
00:26:57
Episode Summary
In this episode of the Jabot Podcast, host Kathryn Rubino speaks with Molly Coleman, Executive Director of the People's Parity Project (PPP) and newly elected St. Paul City Council member, about organizing within the legal profession and redefining the role lawyers play in democracy.
Coleman shares how her early work in public education inspired her to pursue law as a tool for systemic change, and how the People's Parity Project grew from a small group of law students into a national organizing force challenging corporate power, forced arbitration, and inequities embedded within the legal system.
The conversation explores the ideological shaping of law students, the long-term influence of legal movements, and the importance of building alternative pathways for lawyers who want to advance social and economic justice. Coleman also reflects on organizing during political crisis, the limits of courts as vehicles for change, and why community action — not institutions alone — ultimately drives democratic resilience.
This episode offers a candid look at legal activism, professional responsibility, and what it means for lawyers to engage both inside and outside systems of power.
People's Parity Project Molly Coleman Legal organizing Law student activism Legal profession reform Forced arbitration Non-disclosure agreements Legal activism Democracy and law Popular constitutionalism Legal organizing movements Corporate power and law Lawyers and social change Legal education reform Political organizing Community lawyering Judicial power Legal profession ideology Public interest law Law and democracy
Episode Highlights
00:04–00:26 - Molly Coleman's path from public education to law school 00:26–01:50 - Seeking systemic change beyond direct service work 01:50–03:14 - Law school expectations versus institutional realities 03:14–04:23 - The Me Too movement and the origins of the People's Parity Project 04:23–05:24 - Early organizing against forced arbitration and NDAs 05:24–07:08 - Social media organizing and unexpected influence on Big Law 07:08–08:53 - How PPP evolved from a student project into a national organization 08:53–11:27 - Ideological shaping of law students and counterbalancing dominant narratives 11:27–12:53 - Why organizing lawyers matters for long-term political change 12:53–15:40 - Misconceptions about the political ideology of the legal profession 15:40–17:55 - Political pressures on law firms and the profession's shifting landscape 17:55–19:18 - Crisis in Minnesota and limits of relying on courts for protection 19:18–20:16 - Popular constitutionalism and people-powered resistance 20:16–22:33 - How lawyers can contribute during political and social crises 22:33–24:23 - Transitioning from organizer to elected official 24:23–26:27 - The future of legal organizing and building democratic resilience
This Is Why Criminal Justice Needs Number Nerds
06 Mar 2026
00:25:59
Episode Summary
In this episode of the Jabot Podcast, host Kathryn Rubino speaks with economist and criminal justice expert Jennifer Doleac, author of The Science of Second Chances: A Revolution in Criminal Justice and Executive Vice President of Criminal Justice at Arnold Ventures.
Drawing from economic research and real-world policy analysis, Doleac explains how data — not ideology — should guide criminal justice reform. The conversation explores how incentives shape behavior, why increasing the certainty of consequences works better than harsher punishment, and how evidence challenges many widely accepted assumptions about crime policy.
From probation reform and recidivism research to hiring discrimination and unintended policy consequences, Doleac argues that solving complex justice problems requires experimentation, humility, and rigorous testing. The episode ultimately reframes criminal justice reform as a question of incentives, systems design, and evidence-based decision-making rather than political narratives.
Criminal justice reform Second chances Jennifer Doleac Evidence-based policy Economics of crime Recidivism research Deterrence theory Probation reform Ban the Box policy Employment discrimination Second chance hiring Policy experimentation Data-driven justice Natural experiments Incentives and behavior Public policy evaluation Mass incarceration solutions Economic analysis of crime Criminal records employment Justice system innovation
Episode Highlights
00:04–00:50 - Jennifer Doleac's path from economics to criminal justice research 00:50–02:15 - Using economic tools to measure real-world policy impact 02:15–03:28 - Bridging human justice issues with economic analysis 03:28–05:37 - The three ways economists contribute to criminal justice reform 05:37–06:50 - Shifting policy culture from certainty to experimentation 06:50–08:21 - Why certainty of consequences deters crime more than harsh punishment 08:21–09:43 - Structural challenges of implementing reform across states and jurisdictions 09:43–12:19 - Surprising findings: leniency for first-time defendants reduces recidivism 12:19–15:02 - Probation reform and why more supervision can worsen outcomes 15:02–17:03 - Myths about public safety versus data-driven realities 17:03–19:14 - Employment barriers faced by people with criminal records 19:14–21:11 - How Ban the Box policies produced unintended racial disparities 21:11–22:49 - Rethinking incentives to improve second-chance hiring 22:49–24:24 - Insurance models and market solutions for employer risk concerns 24:24–25:25 - Why experimentation and hypothesis testing must guide reform
The Human Cost Of Our Broken Justice System
27 Feb 2026
00:26:41
Episode Summary
In this episode of The Jabot Podcast, host Kathryn Rubino sits down with public defender, reform advocate, and author Emily Galvin Almanza to discuss her new book The Price of Mercy: Unfair Trials, a Broken System, and a Public Defender's Search for Justice in America.
Emily shares her unexpected path into law, her deep commitment to criminal defense, and the emotional realities of representing clients navigating one of the most consequential systems in American society. Drawing from years in public defense and her work co-founding Partners for Justice, she explains why the criminal legal system often punishes instability rather than crime — and how policy choices, not individual morality, frequently determine who enters the system.
The conversation explores burnout among defenders, systemic misconceptions about criminal courts, the role of compassion in policy reform, and the economic and social costs of incarceration. Ultimately, the episode reframes justice not as punishment, but as a question of public safety, community stability, and human dignity.
Public defense Criminal justice reform The Price of Mercy Emily Galvin Almanza Public defender experience Mass incarceration Justice system reform Holistic defense model Legal burnout Court system inequality Compassion in policy Criminal legal system Wrongful convictions Socioeconomic inequality Recidivism data Legal advocacy Community safety policy Justice and economics Legal storytelling Human-centered justice
Episode Highlights
00:05–02:17 - Emily's accidental journey into law school and discovering criminal law 02:17–04:19 - Finding purpose through public defense and helping clients "come home" 04:19–05:55 - Why passion for clients sustains lawyers through intense legal work 05:55–08:05 - Burnout in public defense and operating under constant crisis conditions 08:05–10:05 - Institutional change and caseload reform as keys to lawyer wellbeing 10:05–11:13 - Fighting not only for clients but for constitutional rights and communities 11:13–12:39 - Why Emily stepped back from trial work to build systemic solutions 12:39–14:11 - Founding Partners for Justice and expanding holistic defense nationwide 14:11–15:28 - Writing the book to make reform knowledge accessible to everyday voters 15:28–17:28 - Misconception #1: people enter the system because of policy choices, not just crime 17:28–18:44 - Court process realities and why 98% of cases end in guilty pleas 18:44–20:05 - Junk science and myths about forensic evidence 20:05–21:35 - Humanizing defendants and challenging public stereotypes 21:35–22:27 - Success stories after incarceration rarely told in public narratives 22:27–24:15 - Why social services function as public safety strategies 24:15–25:59 - Economic costs of incarceration and long-term societal impact 25:59–26:23 - Using data and storytelling to change public conversations about justice
An Inside Look At The Law Firm's Law Firm
22 Dec 2025
00:26:59
Summary
In this episode of the Jabot podcast, host Kathryn Rubino chats with Sandra Cohen, co-managing partner at Cohen & Buckmann. Sandra shares her journey from HR to law, specializing in executive compensation and employee benefits. Discover the challenges and rewards of running a boutique law firm and gain insights into the niche legal field of ERISA. It's a must-listen for those curious about dynamic law careers and the evolving landscape of boutique legal practices!.
Episode Highlights
00:34 - Why Sandra Cohen pursued law.
02:55 - Transition from Big Law to personal practice.
05:07 - The elusive work of corporate lawyers.
06:34 - Complexities of executive compensation.
08:39 - Navigating tax and ERISA specializations.
10:59 - Founding a boutique law firm.
13:09 - Teaming up with small/boutique firms.
16:19 - The importance of smart hiring.
18:58 - Networking as making friends, not just connections.
Lawyering With Empathy with Farid Yaghoubtil - Episode 214
21 Nov 2025
00:19:39
In this episode, host Kathryn Rubino chats with Farid Yaghoubtil, founding partner of DTLA Law Group. Discover Farid's journey from fleeing Iran to empowering the underrepresented through law. His passion for justice, client-focused approach, and the challenges of balancing ideals with firm management make it a must-listen for aspiring lawyers and entrepreneurs. Tune in to catch Farid's inspiring stories and insightful advice on staying true to your mission.
Episode Highlights
Decision to pursue law due to childhood injustice.
Balancing ideals and legal system realities.
Motivation behind starting a law firm.
Challenges of running a legal business.
Importance of organization and hiring in business success.
Leading with empathy in law practice.
Avoiding burnout through gratitude and meaningful connections.
Inspiring story: Helping a child in a lead exposure case.
The value of listening to clients.
A personal approach over transactional lawyering.
Building client relationships for sustained growth.
Everyone's Law School Journey Is Unique with Victoria Inoyo - Episode 213
14 Nov 2025
00:23:20
In this episode, Kathryn Rubino chats with Victoria Inoyo, director of advising at Juris Education. Dive into the world of law school applications with insights on choosing the right path, weighing the cost, and finding a career that fits you. Victoria shares personal experiences, highlighting how exposure to diverse perspectives can enhance your law school journey. A must-listen for prospective law students!
Democracy Has A Mass Incarceration Problem with Judith Resnik - Episode 212
07 Nov 2025
00:25:51
Join host Kathryn Rubino on The Jabot podcast with Yale Law's Judith Resnik. Discover how historical detention practices challenge democracy today. Explore her new book, "Impermissible Punishments," for insights on humane reforms. A thought-provoking must-listen!
Episode Highlights
Discussion of upcoming book, "Impermissible Punishments"
Journey to Academia: From Law School to Professor
Prison as a Social Service: Complexities and Paradoxes
Judicial Debate on the Permissibility of Whipping in Prisons
Historical Roots: The League of Nations and Prison Standards
Evolution of Prisoners' Rights and Dignity
Importance of Recognizing Incarcerated as Rights Bearers
Global Perspective: Common Problems in Prisons Worldwide
The Cost of Maintaining the Current Prison System
Inhumane Practices and the Need for Solid Lines on Punishments
Changing Nature: Prison is a Construct, Not a Standard
Solitary Confinement: A Physical and Emotional Burden
You Can Walk Away From Biglaw And Have The Career Of Your Dreams with Marc Brown - Episode 211
26 Sep 2025
00:21:25
In this episode, host Kathryn Rubino chats with Marc Brown, a dynamic attorney and Big Dave's Cheesesteaks franchise owner. Marc opens up about his non-linear career path from Biglaw to founding his own successful firm, sharing insights on the fulfilling shift to plaintiff's work and the challenges of running a business. Aspiring lawyers and entrepreneurs alike will find inspiration in Marc's journey of pursuing passion over convention and learning to balance career and life. Tune in for a mix of legal wisdom and the secret to a perfect cheesesteak!.
Can AI Really Predict If You're Going To Win Your Case? with Sarah Johansson - Episode 210
19 Sep 2025
00:22:03
In this episode of The Jabot Podcast, host Kathryn Rubino chats with Sarah Johansson, the Legal Product Lead at Theo Ai, about the intersection of legal tech and AI. Sarah shares her journey from law to tech and explains how Theo Ai predicts lawsuit outcomes using data and intelligent agents. This episode dives into AI's role in litigation, addressing skepticism, biases, and the human element of lawyering. Essential listening for anyone curious about the future of law and technology's growing impact!
Debrief: What It's REALLY Like To Open Your Own Firm with Margot Hoppin
12 Sep 2025
00:24:13
Tune in to the latest Jabot episode as host Kathryn Rubino chats with Margot Hoppin, co-founder of Hoppin Grinsell. Discover the challenges and victories of starting a law firm post- COVID, the impact of AI in law, and the real deal on work-life balance.
Highlights
Transition from Biglaw to founding a boutique firm.
Trend of starting new firms post-COVID.
Time-tracking challenges of running a law firm.
Growth milestone: hiring and team development.
Balancing work demands with personal time-off goals.
Importance of cash flow management in a small firm.
Key learnings: experience in running a law firm.
Impact of AI on traditional law firm structures.
Maintaining firm culture during growth.
Benefits of transparency in a smaller law firm.
Valuing open communication and addressing knowledge gaps.
Lawyer Turned Novelist Pens The Perfect Summer Read with Audrey Ingram - Episode 208
25 Jul 2025
00:26:09
Listen to The Jabot podcast as Kathryn Rubino interviews attorney and author Audrey Ingram, who shares her compelling transition from a law career to writing. Explore Audrey's journey, motherhood's role in her life choices, and get a glimpse of her new novel, "The Summer We Ran," about first loves turned political rivals. A must-listen for aspiring writers and anyone seeking inspiration to chase their dreams!
Highlights
Transition from Big Law to Novel Writing
Fulfillment in Motherhood
Navigating Guilt and Finding Balance
Inspiration for Debut Novel
Elements of an Ideal Summer Beach Read
Creativity and Storytelling Sources
Crafting Imperfect Characters
Integrating Legal Skills in Writing
Balancing Creative and Business Aspects in Writing
Law Professor On Why It's More Important Than Ever To Confront Racism with Susan Sturm - Episode 207
18 Jul 2025
00:25:15
Join host Kathryn Rubino on the Jabot Podcast as she sits down with Columbia Law School's Susan Sturm to discuss her compelling new book, "What Might Be." Susan shares her passion for social justice and explores the power of reimagining systems for a more equitable future. This episode is a must-listen for those eager to understand the paradoxes in social justice work and how to navigate them for impactful change.
Building A Firm That's Better Than Biglaw with Laurice Rutledge Lambert and Jennifer Whitton - Episode 206
11 Jul 2025
00:25:20
Join host Kathryn Rubino with guests Laurice Rutledge Lambert and Jennifer Whitton. Discover their unique journey from Big Law to founding a boutique health law firm. Explore their mission-driven approach and the challenges they face in healthcare regulation. Perfect for aspiring entrepreneurs and legal enthusiasts
Highlights
Jennifer's journey: from international relations to law.
Laurice's shift from medicine ambitions to health law.
Misconceptions about lawyers and real pathway insights.
Importance of persistence in career focus.
Jennifer's mentor-driven transition to actual healthcare law.
Challenges and implications of starting their own firm.
Big law vs. entrepreneurship: Laurice's turning point.
Values-driven alignment in forming their firm.
Organic growth and values attract talent.
Overcoming misconceptions about small firms lacking sophistication.
Team strength and client faith as major successes.
A Look At How The Law Fails Patients with Anna Kirkland - Episode 205
03 Jul 2025
00:28:06
Tune into The Jabot Podcast for a must-listen episode with Anna Kirkland, a professor at the University of Michigan. Discover how her new book reveals the complexities and failures of discrimination law in healthcare. Unpack how civil rights shape healthcare access, and learn about the impact of algorithmic bias. Essential for those keen on healthcare policies and rights protections. Don't miss it!
Highlights
Anna's academic journey: from law school to academia
The intersection of civil rights and healthcare in Kirkland's book
Historical context: Transgender rights and public opinion
Complexities of implementing nondiscrimination in healthcare
Supreme Court involvement in gender-affirming care for youth
Medicare as a tool of civil rights enforcement in history
The role of rank-and-file employees in healthcare discrimination
Patient experience: legal vs. customer service approach
Challenges of addressing algorithmic discrimination in healthcare
Work/Life Balance Doesn't Have To Be A Myth For Lawyers with Laura Cowan - Episode 204
27 Jun 2025
00:23:04
On the latest episode of the Jabot Podcast, host Kathryn Rubino welcomes attorney Laura Cowan, author of "Lifestyle Lawyer Revolution." Discover why Laura transitioned from CPA to law, her journey of starting an estate planning firm, and the insights from her lifestyle-focused law practice. Laura shares invaluable tips on balancing career success with personal well-being. Whether you're a seasoned lawyer or just starting, Laura's practical advice and unique perspective offer a refreshing take on modern legal practice. Don't miss this insightful conversation!
3 Powerhouse Women At The Heart Of Evolving Florida Condo Law with Marnie Dale Ragan, Ariella Gutman, and Kara Olesky - Episode 203
27 Jun 2025
00:25:41
In this episode, host Kathryn Rubino chats with Marnie Dale Ragan, Ariella Gutman, and Kara Olesky. They share insights on their unique journeys in the legal field, focusing on the intricacies of condominium law, litigation, and business. Explore how they balance professional growth with personal life, tackle high-stakes disputes, and the dynamics of partnership. Perfect for aspiring lawyers or anyone intrigued by the law's diverse career paths.
Highlights
Navigating high stakes business disputes.
Journey to unconventional practice areas.
The personal and corporate intersection in condo law.
Condo governance: challenges and responsibilities.
Evolving legal issues in condo management.
The path to partnership: experiences and expectations.
Frustrated With Your Legal Career? You Can Do Something About That with Cecilia Poullain - Episode 202
20 Jun 2025
00:25:40
In this episode, host Kathryn Rubino chats with Cecilia Poullain, an international executive coach and former lawyer. Cecilia shares insightful career transitions from law to coaching, focusing on empowering women to become partners in law firms. The episode uncovers the hidden challenges of partnership, the importance of confidence, and striking a work-life balance. Cecilia's personal stories reveal the necessity of understanding one's true career desires. A must-listen for aspiring partners and those questioning their legal career path.
Highlights
Transitioning from law to executive coaching.
Valuable skills from a legal background in the financial sector.
Discovering a path through Gestalt therapy.
Challenges in the partnership journey for women.
The hidden skills needed for partnership.
Confidence issues and perfectionism in law.
The loneliness and mental health in law firms.
Recognizing and utilizing emotional intelligence in law.
Balancing personal life with demanding legal careers.
Flexibility in work arrangements as a solution.
Navigating personal goals within rigid law firm structures.
Coaching focus: achieving partnership to improve firm culture.
Biglaw Partner Shares What It's Really Like To Work In Intellectual Property Law with Olga Berson - Episode 201
23 May 2025
00:21:57
Kathryn Rubino chats with Olga Berson partner at Thompson Coburn. Olga shares her journey from a scientist to a top patent attorney, tackling AI's impact on patentability and the evolving biosimilar litigation. Her unique insights and balance between law and ballroom dancing make it an inspiring episode!
Highlights
Path from science to patent law.
Patent lawyers as the geeks of the law field.
Collaborating across legal disciplines.
Day-to-day life of a patent partner.
Unique career spanning patent prosecution, litigation, and more.
Key issues: Patent eligibility and AI.
Patent law and its challenges with biotech and AI.
Balancing AI's role in innovation and patentability.
AI hallucinations and legal implications.
Lateral move to Thompson Coburn and its appeal.
Combining a demanding career with ballroom dancing.
Advice for aspiring patent lawyers: Build client trust.
Getting Real About Being A Divorce Lawyer with Padideh Jafari - Episode 200
16 May 2025
00:25:04
Kathryn Rubino chats with Padideh Jafari founder and CEO of Jafari Law and Mediation Office. Discover Padideh's inspiring journey from a five-year-old aspiring lawyer to a successful family law practitioner and advocate. With fascinating insights into handling high-conflict divorce cases, Jafari offers valuable advice for budding lawyers on balancing a demanding career with personal well-being. Tune in for a dose of inspiration and practical tips.
Highlights
Inspiration to pursue law from age five.
Overcoming skepticism and pursuing legal education.
Challenges and attrition in law school leading to camaraderie.
Early passion and varied legal experiences.
Balancing personal interest with market demand.
The advantage of pre-law school attorney roles.
Choosing family law despite initial reluctance.
Importance of work experience during law school.
Specializing in high-conflict cases and mediation.
Integrating technology like AI into law practice.
Significance of community involvement in legal practice.
Climbing Through The Law Firm Ranks To Become Managing Partner with Cayce Lynch - Episode 199
09 May 2025
00:26:34
Kathryn Rubino chats with Cayce Lynch, the new national managing partner at Tyson & Mendes. Discover Cayce's inspiring journey from paralegal to managing partner, the unique culture at her firm, and how they're innovating in defense law. An uplifting listen for aspiring legal professionals!
What It Really Takes To Be On The Path To Biglaw Partnership with Jesse-Justin Cuevas - Episode 198
02 May 2025
00:24:58
Kathryn Rubino chats with Jesse-Justin Cuevas, partner at Susman Godfrey, about her inspiring journey from high school debater to a successful litigation partner. Discover her insights on balancing a high-stakes legal career with personal life and why mentorship is crucial. A must-listen for aspiring lawyers and anyone curious about the legal profession!
The Sidley Associate Arguing At The Supreme Court with Peter Bruland - Episode 197
25 Apr 2025
00:21:23
Kathryn Rubino chats with Peter Bruland, a Senior Managing Associate at Sidley, who is set to argue before the Supreme Court! Discover his inspiring journey from law school to tackling crucial, high-stakes legal issues. Don't miss this captivating episode filled with insights into Supreme Court advocacy and the balance between pro bono work and career development. It's a must-listen for aspiring lawyers and anyone intrigued by the art of legal persuasion.
Highlights
Discovering law through criminal procedure class.
Thrill of solving puzzles in appellate work.
First Sidley associate to argue before the Supreme Court.
Stakes in criminal cases: freedom on the line.
Preparing for the Supreme Court oral argument.
Balancing pro bono work with billable hours.
Strategic impact: procedural vs. emotional appeals.
The Reality Of The Death Penalty Is Even Worse Than You Think with Corinna Lain - Episode 196
18 Apr 2025
00:26:36
Kathryn Rubino chats with Corinna Lain who reveals the chilling realities of lethal injection as detailed in her new book, "Secrets of the Killing State." This episode exposes the grim processes hidden from the public eye, challenging perceptions on the death penalty. A must-listen for insights into a controversial legal practice!
Highlights
Legal Academia: Balance of Teaching and Publishing
University of Richmond: Teaching Importance
Journey to Death Penalty Expertise
Initial Skepticism About Supreme Court
The Fragility of Lethal Injection
Doctrine vs. Reality: Protecting Unpopular Minorities
Charting The Path To Mediator with Joann Rezzo - Episode 195
11 Apr 2025
00:25:32
Kathryn Rubino chats with Joann Rezzo who shares her unconventional journey from aspiring CIA agent to law school, through big law, and eventually to mediation. Joan highlights the power of empathy, her knack for negotiation, and how varied experiences helped shape her career, enriching both her mediation skills and her personal growth. Hear Joann's vibrant anecdotes, including a clever courtroom victory involving an unexpected witness. A must-listen for insights on navigating a diverse legal career path and finding fulfillment.
Highlights
Choosing law school over CIA.
Navigating a nepotistic law school environment.
Career path: From Big Law to small firm.
Transition to plaintiffs and defense work.
Benefits of trial experience in Big Law.
Conflicts check process at a small firm.
Importance of understanding both plaintiffs and defense perspectives.
Motivation to transition to mediation.
Financial readiness enabling career shifts.
Knowing when to jump into new opportunities.
Traits for a successful mediator: empathy and listening.
Memorable litigation story: Using a surprise rebuttal witness.
The Battle For The Heart Of The First Amendment Is Heating Up with David Enrich - Episode 194
04 Apr 2025
00:26:51
Kathryn Rubino chats with David Enrich, business investigations editor at The New York Times and author of "Murder The Truth." They explore the powerful influence of big law firms and the current landscape of defamation law that threatens journalistic freedom. With insights on media regulations and Sullivan's landmark case, this episode sheds light on the implications for free speech and democracy, a must-listen for anyone intrigued by media law and its societal impact.
Highlights
AI-powered legal research tool.
Encountering lawyers in financial scandals.
Power and secrecy of big law firms.
Importance of New York Times v. Sullivan.
Trump's attacks on media and defamation law.
Supreme Court opinions on Sullivan.
Potential consequences of overturning Sullivan.
Impact on journalism without Sullivan protections.
Threats to local journalism and mental health.
Sophisticated pressure tactics against journalists.
Finding Your Perfect Spot In The Legal Profession with Lisa Landy - Episode 193
28 Mar 2025
00:19:14
Kathryn Rubino chats with Lisa Landy, a Principal at Therrel Baisden. Discover Lisa's journey into law, her passion for probate litigation, and insights on mentoring and firm growth. Perfect for aspiring lawyers!
Judicial Philosophies Are Way Overrated with Mark Tushnet - Episode 192
21 Mar 2025
00:27:00
Kathryn Rubino chats with Harvard Law's Prof. Mark Tushnet, exploring his new book, "Who Am I to Judge?" Tushnet critiques the Supreme Court's originalism and questions the narrow experience of justices. A must-listen to rethink judicial norms and hear Tushnet's engaging perspectives on ideal court nominations and even the question of favorite books!
Highlights
The genesis of a legal career: from political science to law school.
Critique of judicial review's evolution since the 1970s.
Democrats rely on courts against the Trump administration.
Background of the book "Who Am I to Judge?"
Insight on Supreme Court composition change over generations.
You Can Actually Balance A Legal Career And Family Life with Edward Ortega - Episode 191
14 Mar 2025
00:28:14
Kathryn Rubino and personal injury attorney Edward Ortega dive into the nuances of legal careers. From unexpected courtroom experiences to the role of technology in modern law practice, Edward shares his journey from family law to the largest personal injury firm in North Carolina. Discover the highs and lows of lawyering and learn why finding your fit can make all the difference in work-life balance. Perfect for aspiring lawyers and legal professionals looking for genuine insights!
A Lawyer's Quest To Help Victims Of Abuse with Alreen Haeggquist - Episode 190
07 Mar 2025
00:18:13
Kathryn Rubino chats with special guest Alreen Haeggquist, an attorney and author of "Fired Up! Fueling Triumph from Trauma." Discover Alreen's inspiring journey of turning personal trauma into a powerful legal career advocating for abuse survivors. It's a heartfelt discussion on resilience, the therapeutic power of speaking out, and finding balance in emotionally charged legal work. Perfect for aspiring lawyers seeking purpose and passion in their careers.
Highlights
Importance of Sharing Personal Stories: Helping others by sharing one's own trauma.
Emotional Connection: Relating personal experiences to client advocacy.
Speaking Out: The significance of addressing trauma through expression.
Balancing Emotion with Law: Challenges and strategies in emotionally charged cases.
Harnessing Triggers: Using past trauma to fuel passionate advocacy.
Risk of Burnout: Mitigation strategies for emotionally demanding work.
Advocacy Against Power Dynamics: Fighting against perceived power and hierarchy.
Dealing with Client Fears: Building trust and support during vulnerable times.
Victory through Voice: The importance of being believed and heard.
Business and Passion: Balancing financial realities with passionate advocacy.
Trauma Informed Lawyering: Importance of understanding trauma in client relationships.
Playing Games With The Supreme Court with Talia Rosen - Episode 189
28 Feb 2025
00:28:49
Kathryn Rubino chats with Talia Rosen, the lawyer-turned-board game creator. Her game, "First Monday in October", offers a strategic dive into U.S. Supreme Court history. Discover her creative process and how it brings legal history alive in an engaging way. Tune in for behind-the-scenes insights into her 10-year journey from concept to a playable reality!
Highlights
Law school decision: Intentional or accidental?
First Monday in October: Supreme Court-themed board game.
Game mechanics: Historical cases and justices.
Balancing day job and game creation.
Board Game Creation: Creative process and iteration.
Game testing: Community feedback and play-testing events.
Choosing gameplay: Strategy and historical accuracy.
Historical trivia: Fascinating facts about past justices.
Who Gets To Call Themselves A 'Professional'? Law Professor Breaks Down The Licensing Scheme with Rebecca Haw Allensworth - Episode 188
21 Feb 2025
00:24:55
Kathryn Rubino chats with Rebecca Haw Allensworth, a Vanderbilt Law School professor and author of "The Licensing Racket". Discover the untold stories behind professional licensing, the unexpected impact on various careers, and why these regulations might not always serve the public. Rebecca's firsthand research brings intriguing insights into how licensing affects professions from barbers to doctors and potential reforms. Don't miss this chance to rethink the system that shapes many of our careers!.
The Fight For Rights Continues: The View From Legal Academia with Jackie Gardina - Episode 187
14 Feb 2025
00:27:49
Kathryn Rubino chats with Jackie Gardina, Dean and Chief Academic Officer of The Colleges of Law, about systemic change, legal education, and the hurdles to entering the legal profession. Gain insights on LGBTQ rights, bar exam reform, and advice for future law students. A must-listen for those interested in modern legal challenges!
Highlights
From clinical therapy to a passion for law.
Systemic change as a career theme.
Multiple pathways to change: Don't Ask, Don't Tell.
Criminal Defense Attorney Fights For Clients With Mental Disabilities with Elizabeth Kelley - Episode 186
19 Nov 2024
00:23:14
Kathryn Rubino chats with Elizabeth Kelley, a dedicated criminal defense attorney fighting for justice for individuals with mental disabilities. Kelley shares her journey from literature student to a passionate advocate in a field needing reform. Her insights into mental health law and her hands-on approach to client representation are inspiring and thought-provoking. Tune in to discover why compassion and understanding are vital in the legal world, and how her work hopes to shape a more inclusive justice system.
Highlights
Balancing humanities and law.
Outrage about mental disabilities.
Finding fulfillment in criminal defense.
Starting a law firm.
Lessons from opening a practice.
Importance of wellness and coaching.
Mental wellness in law school.
Writing practical guides for lawyers.
Value of independent forensic evaluations.
A powerful courtroom experience.
The role of problem-solving courts.
Advice for pursuing justice for mental disabilities.