Explorez tous les épisodes du podcast The Immortal Life of Agencies

Today’s guest is Taryn Crouthers, one year in as CEO of Big Spaceship, bringing a distinctly commercial and entrepreneurial perspective to her first agency role.

Taryn reflects on the challenge of evolving a 25-year-old agency without losing the heritage that made it distinctive – not least how Big Spaceship’s culture of “explorers, not settlers” shapes everything from operating structures to client partnerships.

The conversation explores her approach to change as a first-time CEO, including the “100 things that suck” and using AI to rethink traditional roles and processes.

Taryn also shares the thinking behind restoring the Big Spaceship name, creating the brutally honest press release that accompanied it, and developing BSS, their framework for being brave, smart and specific.

With a sharp perspective on creativity, AI and talent, this is a thoughtful look at how agency leaders can create the conditions for ambitious people to do their best work.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:15] Building new things

[06:47] Natural agency evolution

[09:40] The flight plan

[12:11] Explorers not settlers

[13:40] 100 tasks that suck

[19:46] Big Spaceship returns

[26:32] BSS: Brave, smart, specific

[32:13] Exploration over chaos

[37:00] Diverse thinking in creativity

[40:22] Evolution of innovation

MORE ABOUT TARYN:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/taryncrouthers

Website: bigspaceship.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Jolene Delisle, Founder of The Working Assembly, the New York-based design-led creative agency she built around a simple idea – assemble the right people around the problem, rather than force every client through the same agency model.

Jolene reflects on the unconventional origins of the business, which began as a side hustle while she was working at Meta and pregnant with her daughter. She explains how her Korean origins, adoption and early experience of using art as a form of communication shaped her instinct for storytelling and creative problem-solving.

The conversation explores how The Working Assembly evolved as client needs changed, why traditional agency structures became increasingly difficult to justify, and what the current reckoning means for agencies facing smaller budgets and rising expectations.

Jolene also shares what she learned from selling the business, why she chose Catalyst, and why she sees smaller, specialised teams working together as a model for the future.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:56] Design as a differentiator

[05:17] Side hustle at Meta

[07:09] Art before words

[12:13] Assembling creative needs

[17:05] The agency reckoning

[20:12] Specialisation over scale

[22:17] Founder-led adaptability

[25:19] Finding the right buyer

[30:56] Appeal of working closely

MORE ABOUT JOLENE:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jolened

Website: theworkingassembly.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Today’s guest is Jon Wilkins, best known for co-founding Naked Communications and now a founding partner at The Intangibles.

First Jon reflects on what made Naked distinctive – not least how they attracted “brilliant misfits”, protected their culture as they expanded internationally, and built trust by putting client interests first.

We also explore his transition via Karmarama into Accenture, helping lead the multi-billion dollar acquisition spree that ultimately built Accenture Song, and arguably redefined the agency landscape.

Finally Jon unpacks his latest venture – the new model consultancy, The Intangibles, which addresses opportunities that many client-side CEOs can't yet see.

Few people have so consistently explored uncharted territory and Jon openly shares his thinking, his methods, and the lessons learned along the way.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[03:51] Finding uncharted territory

[08:17] Trust through neutrality

[11:00] Hiring brilliant misfits

[15:11] Codify the culture

[21:01] Knowing when to move on

[23:46] Accenture’s CMO opportunity

[27:55] Building The Intangibles

[33:45] Where value comes from

[40:20] The value of trust

[43:10] Fuelling human superpowers

[47:39] Championing new spaces

MORE ABOUT JON:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/wilkinsjon

Website: theintangibles.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Jamie Williams, Managing Partner at Isobel, the independent agency that’s recently repositioned itself as ‘the brand reset company’.

Jamie explains what prompted the change and how it’s designed to capitalise on what the agency does best, as well as reflect where they believe the market is heading.

He also shares how productisation helped turn their refined proposition into a clear, three-stage offer, while also making change easier for the team to embrace.

This candid conversation combines differentiation, value-based pricing and how to create a better experience for clients. At a time of huge disruption, Jamie offers an insider’s perspective at how an established agency can embrace change without losing what made it distinctive.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:13] Twenty years of independence

[05:04] Future proofing the agency

[08:16] Breaking creative commoditisation

[14:46] Finding the hybrid opportunity

[20:59] Knowing when to reset

[29:11] Think, create, and do

[32:21] Value-based pricing

[34:34] Translating differentiation into demand

[40:22] The power of brands

MORE ABOUT JAMIE:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jamie-williams

Website: isobel.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is seasoned agency leader, Justin Thomas-Copeland – now CEO of the 4As – unpacking their transformation from agency trade body into a more proactive, service-led organisation.

He explains why agencies also need to look in the mirror, identify what they’re genuinely brilliant at and resist the temptation to be everything for everyone. Justin shares how specialisation strengthens culture and commercial performance, and why confidence is often a reward rather than a prerequisite.

He also offers a positive long-term view on talent for our industry – from the lack of playbook for young people, to the mid-career uncertainty. This is a fascinating conversation with a leader who’s excited by change and full of optimism for what's to come.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[03:32] A lifelong love of change

[07:27] 4As as a service

[10:50] Making the hard choices

[16:27] Looking in the mirror

[20:10] Filling the blind spots

[27:13] Build value from your DNA

[34:22] Rethinking the talent equation

[38:12] Beyond the linear career

[46:36] The importance of creative thinkers

MORE ABOUT JUSTIN:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/justintc

Website: aaaa.org

MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:

4As Look Ahead: Looking Ahead to 2026

GenJam via LBB: GenJam Challenges Creatives to Build Live with GenAI

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Dana Hork, Founder of Beers with Friends, the sprint-based creative agency that makes creative firepower available on tap.

Drawing on her experience as a brand-side marketer at Jet.com, Walmart and Wonder, Dana explains why she felt the traditional agency model was no longer keeping pace with modern marketing.

That’s why Beers with Friends takes a radically different approach – working with one client at a time, bringing the right talent around the table and compressing high-stakes work into five-day sprints.

Dana also unpacks how their model creates focus, choosing their ideal clients and how repeat business works without traditional retainers.

This is an innovative, positive, and optimistic conversation from a client who decided to do it for themselves.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:16] Selling ‘Beer Runs’

[03:26] Brand side beginnings

[09:45] Paying for focus

[13:57] Single vs multiple sprints

[21:04] People behind the brands

[24:58] Competing without competition

[27:21] AI the fidelity of ideas

[32:07] Designing the client experience

[37:29] Optimism through innovation

MORE ABOUT DANA:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/danahork

Website: Beers With Friends

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Lisa Morgan, Group Managing Director at Generation Media, the independent media agency specialising in children, youth, communities and fandom.

Lisa explains why AI should redesign entry-level roles rather than replace them, liberating people from repetitive processes to focus on using their brains.

She shares how Generation Media identifies and develops young talent, balancing curiosity and technological confidence with human skills such as critical thinking, judgement and attention to detail.

The conversation also explores employee ownership, evolving agency economics, and creating a coaching culture to offer young people the leadership that they increasingly demand.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[01:54] Generation Media’s evolution

[05:39] Nurturing talent through the system

[14:26] Value of employee ownership

[20:43] Strengthening strategic thinking

[26:25] Away from selling time

[28:26] Coaching changes leadership

[34:19] Limitations of technology

[36:20] Finding balance

MORE ABOUT LISA:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/lisa-morgan

Website: generationmedia.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Claire Hollands, CEO of Saatchi & Saatchi, one of the most iconic agency brands in advertising.

Claire unpacks how she revitalised this “legacy brand” by giving its most famous belief – ‘Nothing is impossible’ – renewed meaning for a more client-centric age.

She describes creating an operating model around realising impossible ambitions – from seeking clients at transformative moments to setting a clearer creative standard and giving every employee their own ‘impossible ambition’.

Claire explains why strong agency brands still matter – not least within holding companies – including how Saatchis acts as a doorway into the wider Publicis offering.

She also reflects on letting go of leadership ego, building a more inclusive culture, and why creativity and human intelligence remain fundamental to driving business growth.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[03:47] Rediscovering Saatchis’ DNA

[10:01] Agencies as change agents

[13:39] Strategy drives the proposition

[14:54] Relevance through differentiation

[19:20] Power in the collective

[25:01] Bringing 'Nothing Is Impossible' back

[29:40] Inclusivity over sub tribes

[30:20] Creating a 'We' culture

MORE ABOUT CLAIRE:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/claire-hollands

Website: saatchi.co.uk

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guests are Eric Segal and Brett Banker, Co-Founders of X&O – the sprint-based agency with an expert-only model, bringing together specialist talent to solve client challenges in double quick time.

Drawing on more than 20 years leading teams inside traditional agencies, they share why they chose not to replicate what exists, but to rethink how the work gets done.

Brett and Eric explore the shift from selling time to selling outcomes, why conviction matters more than compromise when defining a commercial model, and how freeing experts from meetings, multitasking and management responsibilities unlocks better thinking.

They also discuss the future of agency talent, arguing that the industry's best people shouldn't have to leave the work they love behind simply to climb the career ladder.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[01:45] A new model agency

[07:55] The winds of change

[10:27] Solving problems

[13:14] Specificity over availability

[20:21] Consistency builds trust

[28:34] Climbing the wrong ladder

[32:30] The C-suite’s secret weapon

[37:35] No long game

[42:24] Conviction over consensus

MORE ABOUT ERIC & BRETT:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/eric-segal

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/brett-banker

Website: heyxo.co

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Sam Hawkey, CEO EMEA at Digitas and former CEO of both Saatchi & Saatchi and AMV BBDO. He shares his perspective on how clients and agencies must evolve together.

He talks about prioritising genuine client fit – getting beyond the excitement to really understanding the likelihood of working well together. Sam unpacks his two most important criteria – the client's readiness for change and their willingness to adopt new commercial models.

He also talks about the impact of genuine differentiation, as well as how Digitas promise and then deliver on outcomes, enabling clients to pay them in modern and progressive ways.

Practical, optimistic and grounded in experience, this is a thoughtful conversation about building stronger client relationships and a more sustainable agency future.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[04:00] From advertising to CX

[07:30] An orchestration mindset

[09:18] Preparing clients for change

[14:38] Expectations build trust

[17:29] Substance and charisma

[24:12] Knowing when to walk away

[29:18] Relationships change remuneration

[33:42] Creating pricing power

[37:25] Sharing responsibility for change

MORE ABOUT SAM:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/samhawkey

Website: digitas.com/en-ae

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:

4As Blog: Before Reinventing Pricing, Agencies Must Reinvent Value

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Michael Nyman, Founder and CEO of the Acceleration Community of Companies (ACC), an agency group designed specifically in response to the traditional holding company model.

Having spent his prior career within that model, Michael explains that clients now demand speed, specialist expertise and a deeper consumer insight. So rather than accepting internal competition, ACC is optimised for collaboration and an advisory-first approach that solves client problems before deciding how to execute them.

The conversation explores why organisational design has become a competitive advantage, how integrated teams can move faster, and why specialisation is mission-critical.

Michael also reflects on how his competitive set is evolving as ACC grows, offering a unique snapshot of a dynamic market and demonstrating why evolution is imperative for success.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:21] Building a ‘doing’ company

[04:38] Why stories matter

[09:13] A circular organisation

[13:21] Leading with advice

[17:27] Measuring collaboration

[22:17] The bundling effect

[28:22] Following client demand

[33:53] Finding your purpose

MORE ABOUT MICHAEL:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/michael-nyman

Website: accelerationcc.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today's guest is Patou Nuytemans, former CEO of Ogilvy EMEA, whose remarkable 30-year journey from intern to regional chief has given her a rare perspective on leadership, reinvention and the future of agencies.

Patou reflects candidly on the emotional reality of leaving the business that shaped her, explaining how heartbreak became gratitude and ultimately inspired a new chapter of reflection and writing.

She believes that agencies don't have a creativity problem, they have a value problem. Patou describes long-standing commercial weaknesses that make it essential for agencies to connect creativity with business impact, demonstrate value over capability, and rethink how they price their work.

Thoughtful, optimistic and deeply human, this is a compelling conversation about identity, leadership and why the agency industry's best days can still lie ahead.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:56] The pivot begins

[04:40] Sharing gratitude

[09:11] Finding purpose

[15:11] Learning through uncertainty

[19:07] How AI exposes truth

[25:55] Demonstrating real value

[29:39] Every conversation counts

[34:11] From services to solutions

[38:31] Back to marketing basics

[42:19] Owning the future

MORE ABOUT PATOU:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/patounuytemans

Substack: patoupivots.substack.com

MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:

VoxComm Research: Redesigning the agency value model

Theo of Golden: amazon.com/Theo-Golden-Novel-Allen-Levi

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Stuart Dunk, a former marketing procurement leader at the likes of Nike, Reckitt and Danone. He now runs his own consultancy, Don't Forget to Look.

Procurement remains one of the most misunderstood client-side functions. Stuart offers a rare insider’s perspective on what agencies get wrong and how they can engage more effectively with the people influencing buying decisions.

He explains why not all procurement professionals think alike, how agencies can diagnose procurement culture before entering a pitch, and when differentiation matters most. The conversation also explores specialist positioning, value-based selling and why agencies must build relationships earlier.

Insightful, generous and commercially astute, Stuart challenges common assumptions and offers a smarter approach to working with procurement professionals.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:30] 20 years of buying marketing

[05:19] Beyond procurement stereotypes

[09:09] Reading buying signals

[12:53] Where agencies have power

[19:03] The role of differentiation

[23:19] Winning every scorecard

[31:04] Staying curious

[32:43] Building pipeline differently

[40:24] Asking permission

MORE ABOUT STUART:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/stuart-dunk-dftl

Website: dontforgettolook.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is John Connors, CEO of the Boston-based, full-service agency, Boathouse.

John argues that agencies have become too transactional, weakening client relationships as well as their impact on business outcomes. So he’s built a client-centric culture that deeply understands the drivers of commercial performance.

The conversation explores the disconnect between client-side CEOs and CMOs, and how to justify brand investment alongside digital media.

Thoughtful, practical and optimistic, this is a conversation about building trust, commercial credibility and brand value.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[03:54] Studying the CEO

[08:13] Execution over consultancy

[09:45] The CEO disconnect

[13:44] Halfway to transformation

[19:40] Map the revenue

[25:40] Partner vs employee mindset

[30:13] Relationships over transactions

[36:07] Anchored to the P&L

[39:23] The numbers behind AI

MORE ABOUT JOHN:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/john-connors

Website: boathouseinc.com

MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:

Boathouse CEO research

Richard Huntington in Campaign: It's time to stop talking about “brand” and “creativity” (paywalled)

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guests are Courtney Worthman and Stacey Gersten, Co-Founders of Main Character, the celebrity partnership specialists helping brands stop buying celebrities and start buying into culture.

Drawing on two decades of experience across entertainment, advertising and PR, Courtney and Stacey explain why moving ‘at the speed of culture’ has become a practical necessity and how building celebrity partnerships has evolved into a quantitative science.

We explore the balance between data and instinct, the realities of managing dynamic stakeholder relationships, and how brands discern the right cultural moments.

This is a modern, practical conversation about culture, influence and the changing role of celebrity in brand communications.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[03:26] Main Character’s origin story

[07:15] Being audience first

[10:11] Thinking in calendars

[13:42] Making ideas executable

[16:51] Pulling the right levers

[19:03] The science behind celebrity

[27:05] Brands as entertainment studios

[30:09] An easy way to yes

[32:10] Brand to brand partnerships

MORE ABOUT COURTNEY & STACEY:

LinkedIn (Courtney): linkedin.com/in/courtney-worthman

LinkedIn (Stacey): linkedin.com/in/stacey-gersten

Website: main-character.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Micky Ogando, CEO and Chief Creative Officer of the 80-person, Austin-based independent creative agency, Bakery.

Unpacking the trend of big brands choosing indies, Micky explains why many clients misunderstand what they’re actually buying when they swap HoldCo. polish for opinionated misfits, and how this friction can be channeled into better work.

The conversation also covers how Bakery vets potential clients and when agency owners should evolve beyond improvising in their early days and start really focusing on what they're really good at.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:35] Starting without a blueprint

[05:44] Misconceptions about indies

[07:54] Independent versus small

[11:41] Scale with minimal friction

[16:24] Vetting process on both sides

[21:08] Limits of improvisation

[22:26] The He-Man strategy

[23:51] Avoiding the Abilene paradox

[25:51] The Michelin star mindset

[29:43] Taste, criteria, standards and craft

MORE ABOUT MICKY:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/mickyogando

Website: bakery.agency

MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:

A Hitchhiker's Guide to the Agency Galaxy

https://thecultish.substack.com/p/a-hitchhikers-guide-to-the-agency

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Måns Hosk, Co-CEO of Eidra, the Swedish consultancy collective that’s grown from five founding businesses into a 1,500-person organisation spanning Europe and the US.

Måns shares how Eidra was built around a simple idea: modern client challenges rarely fit neatly into a single discipline. He explains how strategy, creativity, technology, data and AI have been brought together to solve broader business problems, while maintaining the specialist expertise clients still value.

The conversation explores what integration looks like in practice, why overwhelming clients with capability is rarely effective, and how Eidra’s ‘bring a friend’ approach has helped build deeper, more valuable relationships.

Måns also reflects on AI, organisational change, and why Scandinavian values such as collaboration, pragmatism and humility have become important advantages.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:38] What is Eidra?

[08:06] All about solidarity

[11:05] The challenges of integration

[12:54] Applying pragmatism

[16:06] Starting with transformation

[21:11] Bring a friend approach

[30:36] New superstars vs obsolescence

[31:46] The Scandinavian advantage

[35:07] Eidra’s next chapter

MORE ABOUT MÅNS HOSK:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/m%C3%A5ns-jacobsson-hosk-9123044/

Website: eidra.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Josh Campo, CEO of Huge. And if you think your to-do list is long, you might need to reconsider.

On top of the wider market disruption, Josh is overseeing all manner of change – still fresh from exiting IPG, Huge is navigating PE-ownership, integrating with Hero Digital and continuing its productisation journey.

On the integration with Hero, he explains why successful integration requires a complete rebirth of culture, not just simply blending two organisations together.

Pragmatic, candid and optimistic throughout, Josh also explores Huge’s much discussed productisation journey, the decline of time-based pricing, and why agencies must move beyond selling “done” and focus instead on outcomes, speed and commercial value.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:37] Navigating four transformations

[04:07] Rebirth of culture

[06:56] Rebuilding from common ground

[11:20] Delivering on the promise

[15:50] Why productisation matters

[22:26] The declining value of ‘done’

[30:08] A future without timesheets

[31:33] Procurement needs a new story

[37:30] The future belongs to excellence

[42:02] Speed is of the essence

MORE ABOUT JOSH:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/joshcampo

Website: hugeinc.com

MENTIONED IN THE EPISODE:

Madison Avenue Makeover: The transformation of Huge and the redefinition of the ad agency business: amazon.com/Madison-Avenue-Makeover-transformation-redefinition

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is James Greenfield, Co-Founder and CEO of Koto, the globally recognised branding agency working with companies like Netflix, Spotify and Google.

James explains how listening closely to client needs has shaped the agency’s evolution, remaining anchored in brand, but also delivering high quality campaigns and digital products.

The conversation also explores how Koto’s buyer landscape is changing, with CEOs now far more involved in decisions traditionally owned by marketing teams. James unpacks the growing importance of consistency across fragmented customer journeys, and why brand increasingly plays a central organising role.

Alongside this, he reflects on leadership, creativity and the discipline required to move from practitioner to CEO, offering a clear and optimistic vision for how agencies evolve.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[03:04] How client-centricity drives growth

[07:02] Changes in how clients buy

[11:04] Why brand drives survival

[14:37] Internal versus external reality

[16:39] The cobbler’s children problem

[19:28] Three pillars of Koto

[21:54] Closing the execution gap

[27:12] Qualifying the right clients

[30:20] How AI supports not replaces

[38:51] Life as a CEO

[40:50] Creativity over quarterly numbers

MORE ABOUT JAMES:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/james-greenfield

Website: koto.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Marcel Petitpas, CEO of Parakeeto – the agency profitability specialists. He brings a clear and often counterintuitive perspective on how agencies actually make money.

Marcel challenges one of the industry’s most deeply held assumptions, arguing that most agencies don’t have a revenue problem, they have an operational one. Through the lens of what he calls “indigestion, not starvation”, he explains why growth alone rarely fixes profitability, and how flawed frameworks around utilisation, margin and pricing continue to hold agencies back.

The conversation explores the shift away from time-based billing, unpacking how abstraction, risk and value shape modern pricing models. Marcel also demystifies value-based pricing, highlighting why Finance shouldn’t be leading and what it really takes to command a premium with sophisticated buyers.

Grounded, practical and refreshingly direct, this episode offers a sharper way to think about sustainable profitability.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[03:53] The cycle of insolvency

[07:12] Solving the profitability puzzle

[13:38] Pricing starts with margin

[19:47] Forecast before measurement

[23:32] Shifting the client dynamic

[26:40] Deliverables versus real value

[30:21] Risk adjusted decisions

[36:00] Outcomes over everything

[40:29] What drives pricing power

MORE ABOUT MARCEL:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/marcelpetitpas

Website: parakeeto.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Enda King, Head of Innovation for Communications, Media and Technology at Accenture. Having also worked in media, advertising and brand, he offers a rare perspective on the convergence of agencies and consultancies.

Enda describes how innovation has shifted from long-term strategy decks to faster, more adaptive thinking based on experimentation, collaboration and real-world testing. He explains why clients no longer look for fixed answers but for the capability to continuously sense, adapt and respond in an uncertain environment.

Drawing on his journey from Carat and TBWA, to Ogilvy and Redscout, he also explores the growing importance of human judgement, curiosity and asking better questions.

This is an optimistic yet grounded conversation about embracing ambiguity, building resilience, and redefining how value is created in a rapidly changing world.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:39] Endless possibilities

[04:16] Leveraging creative thinking

[07:18] Confidence in uncertainty

[08:58] Media roots and curiosity

[09:48] Brands shaped by culture

[16:31] Failure as valuable learning

[19:43] Innovation as team sport

[30:44] Think like an antagonist

[32:14] Delivering speed and certainty

[36:44] An opportunity for better ideas

MORE ABOUT ENDA:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kingenda

Website: accenture.com/us-en

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Jonathan Emmins, Founder and Global CEO of Amplify, the creative agency known for redefining brand experience for the likes of Google, Netflix, and PlayStation.

Jonathan shares how Amplify evolved from experiential onto a broader creative canvas, helping brands become “match fit for 3-D world”. He explains why worldbuilding sits at the heart of their approach, creating ideas that live across channels rather than being dictated by them.

The conversation explores the power of culture as a strategic tool, not just a marketing layer, and why brands must earn their place within it. Jonathan also reflects on how Amplify has stayed relevant over nearly two decades – from building teams around curiosity, to balancing scale with boutique thinking.

With candid insights on growth, creative integrity and joining Common Interest, this is a thoughtful look at how agencies can evolve without losing what made them distinctive in the first place.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:00] Amplify’s origin story

[03:57] A broader creative approach

[08:35] Being the ‘safe wildcard’

[09:50] The art of worldbuilding

[14:42] Culture as a connector

[22:56] Curiosity drives relevance

[26:30] Being defined by what you refuse

[31:01] Joining Common Interest

[38:04] A scrapbook mindset

MORE ABOUT JONATHAN:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jonathanemmins

Website: weareamplify.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Greg Caplan, Co-Founder of Dovetail, the IT managed service provider trusted by leading agencies including Uncommon, Quiet Storm and Isobel.

Greg brings a rare perspective on how technology is quietly reshaping the agency business model from the inside out. With a background in post-production and years spent supporting creative companies, he explains why IT is no longer a back-office function but a strategic driver of growth, resilience and client trust.

The conversation explores how agencies are navigating an increasingly complex landscape of cyber security, compliance requirements and distributed freelance teams. Greg also unpacks the rising importance of technology in new-business, where issues such as data governance and information security are now central to winning major pitches.

AI inevitably also features. Greg shares a pragmatic view of how agencies should approach it, from identifying ‘shadow AI’ inside organisations to building leadership-level understanding of the tools reshaping client relationships.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[04:29] The technology behind agencies

[06:19] AI strategy

[09:10] Automation powering freelancers

[12:28] Smart cyber strategy planning

[15:47] Confidentiality, integrity and accessibility

[20:04] Rooting out ‘shadow AI’

[25:01] Readiness for leaders

[27:19] The rise of specialised AI

[29:35] Liberating creativity

MORE ABOUT GREG:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/greg-caplan

Website: Dovetail.london

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Jenny Biggam, Owner of the7stars – and one of the most respected voices in independent media. With 20 years at the helm of the UK’s largest independent media agency, she offers a clear and compelling view of what it really means to stay independent in a market obsessed with scale.

She explains how only a purely fee-based model creates true neutrality, why transparency isn’t a slogan but a structural choice, and how partnership sits at the heart of everything the agency does. From working collaboratively with platforms and consultancies, to building creative capability inside a media agency, Jenny shares how the7stars has evolved while staying true to its beliefs.

The conversation also explores AI, career acceleration, client in-housing and the risks of agencies describing themselves as ‘platforms’. It’s an optimistic, grounded look at where media agencies are heading and why talent, culture and commercial clarity still matter most.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[03:33] What partnership really means

[08:03] The reality of proprietary media

[10:32] Platforms as partners

[14:00] Pitching against the giants

[19:22] Feedback over flip flopping

[25:16] A melting pot of skills

[27:20] AI in creative development

[29:51] The inverted pyramid shift

[33:45] Agencies as platforms explained

[36:45] Clients in-housing

[39:15] Talent drives renewal

MORE ABOUT JENNY:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jenny-biggam

Website: the7stars.co.uk

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Justin Billingsley, Co-Founder of Symbioniq and former CMO of Publicis Groupe. With his prior client-side career with the likes of Unilever, Coca-Cola and Nokia, Justin brings a rare – and often forthright – perspective on our industry.

He reflects on Publicis’ transformation and the criticism their ‘Power of One’ strategy received at the time, despite it now arguably inspiring their HoldCo. competitors. Justin describes navigating that change and why many of the decisions made back then are now proving decisive.

We also explore the growing divide between specialist agencies and one-stop shops. Justin explains why the real threat to agencies isn’t their competitors, but platforms, consultancies and clients increasingly building their own capabilities.

And of course, AI informs the whole conversation – not least how this new industrial revolution is disrupting certain areas of marketing over others, including market research, where Justin’s AI venture, Simbioniq, is rewriting the playbook.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:56] Lessons from Publicis

[07:58] Mystery creates margin

[11:38] End to end partners

[14:41] The observability problem

[18:43] Balancing specialisation

[21:16] Ideology as positioning

[25:26] The art of choosing

[26:08] AI and the iron triangle

[31:25] Doctor heal thyself

[39:15] Simulating people not data

MORE ABOUT JUSTIN:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/justinbillingsley

Website: simbioniq.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Ben Rudman, Executive Director at MSQ, one of the fastest growing, private equity backed marketing services groups, positioning itself between the traditional holding companies and independent agencies.

Ben shares why the agency model is at a pivotal moment, as AI accelerates the shift from selling time to selling outcomes, products and packaged services. He explains how MSQ has scaled to nearly 2,000 people while maintaining their entrepreneurial agility, and why client-centricity must be behavioural, not rhetorical.

The conversation explores the so-called Goldilocks zone between scale and flexibility, the realities of working with procurement, and why agencies must align commercial models to client goals from the outset, rather than retrofit them later.

With refreshing honesty, Ben reflects on what hasn’t yet been cracked, the talent challenges AI presents, and why creativity and ideas remain the industry’s enduring advantage.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:25] Scaling MSQ

[05:11] Revenue beyond headcount

[10:07] Uncertainty driving change

[13:33] Aligning to outcomes

[18:04] Commercial momentum model

[22:50] Client centricity by design

[25:51] Creating a Market of One

[31:33] Building the AI backbone

[33:57] Behaviour shapes culture

[39:00] Charging for ideas

MORE ABOUT BEN:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/benrudman

Website: msqpartners.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Zaid Al-Qassab, Global CEO of M+C Saatchi Group. Fascinatingly, having been client-side CMO with the likes of P&G, BT and Channel 4, this is his first agency role. So his rare perspective is gold dust.

Zaid explains why agencies must stop talking to themselves and start truly understanding the complexity faced by modern CMOs – not least how the old brief-led model is being replaced by the need for orchestration.

He shares how M+C Saatchi has repositioned itself around ‘Cultural Power’ and why that can – and should – be measurable. The conversation also explores AI, productisation and why agency leaders must make a stronger case for embracing a changing market.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[03:00] Agency navel gazing

[06:28] Treating agencies as partners

[07:47] Searching for a new model

[11:14] Flexible orchestration

[14:08] A former CMO’s advantage

[17:32] The Goldilocks zone

[22:22] Cultural Power as a proposition

[30:35] AI as a democratizer

[36:01] AI and the future of work

[38:06] Three things that matter

MORE ABOUT ZAID:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/zaid-al-qassab

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today's guest is Craig Elimeliah, Chief Creative Officer at Code and Theory, sharing his passion for why technology and creativity must go hand in hand.

In his view, clients have been carrying the burden of fragmentation for far too long. That’s why his role blends engineering, strategy and craft to help clients navigate modern complexity.

The discussion also explores Stagwell’s orchestration platform, The Machine, and how it’s reshaping integration across the marketing lifecycle. And perhaps most provocatively, Craig challenges our industry’s obsession with scale. If bigger isn’t always better, then agility and systems thinking matter far more.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:29] Inseparable disciplines

[04:28] Thinking like architects

[07:35] Creativity as change

[17:25] AI as creative accelerator

[22:59] Platformisation of holdcos

[26:14] Evolving business models

[30:13] Agentic operating systems

[36:05] Knowing what to automate

[42:31] Mediocrity scales exponentially

MORE ABOUT CRAIG:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/craigelimeliah

Website: codeandtheory.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s episode features Sean McDonald, Global CSO and Partner at Rethink, exploring the power of belief.

Sean’s built a reputation for candour, competitive ambition and an unwavering belief in setting the standard. But he hasn’t always led that way. He reflects on how letting go of the need to ‘win’ every meeting transformed his leadership and why discovering the answer matters more than having it.

Following his journey from politics and public affairs into advertising, Sean unpacks the myth of the ‘all-knowing’ strategist, explains why strong opinions must be loosely held and shares how envy can raise standards.

The conversation also looks ahead, exploring growth, independence and why agencies must commit to what they optimise for.

HIGHLIGHTS

[02:10] Bluntness with manners

[06:22] Discovering over knowing

[12:08] Cult of the hero

[15:38] Competition and respect

[20:32] Setting global standard

[24:51] Have an opinion

[29:00] The goal isn't growth

[31:18] Making bets

[33:21] Growth versus ‘good’

[38:00] Embracing the future

MORE ABOUT SEAN:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/seanamcdonald

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Christine Olivas – Practice Director, Advertising & Brand Marketing at Toptal, the world's largest, fully remote workforce.

Christine describes how on-demand talent has evolved from a stop-gap to a strategic growth lever for modern agencies, enabling them to build flexible teams that respond faster, protect margins and deliver stronger work.

Drawing on her experience scaling on-demand teams globally, she unpacks how moving beyond rigid resourcing helps agencies handle new-business surges, access specialist expertise and reduce pressure on core teams.

With an optimistic view of the future, Christine reflects on evolving workforce values, new career paths, and building agencies that are more human, resilient and fit for what comes next.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:33] A shifting workforce

[05:03] Dynamic demand for talent

[09:12] Moving beyond the stopgap

[13:10] CMOs want chemistry

[15:58] Support without spotlight

[20:03] New business influx

[24:29] Flexible pricing

[29:01] Freelance is evolving

[32:51] Portfolios open doors

[36:54] Great ideas come anywhere

MORE ABOUT CHRISTINE:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/colivas

Forbes CMO research

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Jared Belsky, Co-Founder and CEO of Acadia – the hugely successful digital marketing and analytics agency. This is a masterclass in optimism, principled leadership and long-term thinking.

Jared shares why bravery and belief sit at the heart of great leadership, from taking outspoken ethical stances, to building an agency designed to nurture future CEOs.

We explore how Acadia has deliberately moved away from the boom-and-bust model that afflicts so many agencies, instead embracing more sustainable economics and intelligent specialization that doesn’t rely on a single vertical sector.

Jared also offers a refreshingly positive view of the next generation, arguing they’re the most empowered yet, particularly when genuinely supported with thoughtful use of AI and automation.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:09] Where Acadia came from

[04:41] Integrity in media buying

[08:51] Stay profitable while doing good

[11:50] Agencies as teaching platforms

[17:29] Embracing economic diversity

[21:12] The mid-market thesis

[23:01] Saying "No" to P&G

[27:37] Living the values

[30:31] Empowering the team with technology

[33:23] Three trends reshaping media

MORE ABOUT JARED:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jaredbelsky

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Beth Ann Kaminkow is CEO of Dentsu North America. She brings a rare candour about why so many agency groups struggle to articulate their strengths, and why Dentsu is choosing to double down on strong, clearly positioned brands rather than chasing endless consolidation.

She shares her perspective on where independents are winning, why speed and specialisation matter more than ever, and how global networks leverage their scale advantage.

Thoughtful, optimistic and grounded in real leadership experience, Beth Ann also cuts through the hype on AI, from its impact on creativity and craft, to increasing appetite from clients for new pricing models.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[03:06] How technology amplifies longevity

[03:56] Restoring growth

[08:18] The ‘One Dentsu’ model

[12:24] Client-led media strategy

[19:08] AI as media channel

[22:22] Pricing unique IP

[24:06] The needs that indies meet

[28:24] Staying focused amidst gossip

[31:55] How cynicism hurts the industry

[35:44] The next wave of creativity

MORE ABOUT BETH:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/beth-ann-kaminkow

Mentioned in the episode:

Robin’s book – Market of One: amazon.com/Market-One-rewrite-competitive-advantage

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Zoe Scaman, founder of Bodacious – and one of our industry's most original and outspoken thinkers. She’s built her career by following her curiosity, from her early days at Naked Communications to optimising her own business around freedom and variety.

Zoe shares her take on why the traditional agency model has reached breaking point, how creativity is being squeezed by efficiency, and what a new era of talent could look like. She also speaks about building her personal brand, using writing as a thinking tool, and the importance of openness, vulnerability and speaking out.

If you’re questioning what’s next for agencies – or yourself – Zoe offers both a reality check and a dose of inspiration.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:03] Freedom to be 'Bodacious'

[04:24] The magic of misfits

[08:35] Death by a thousand cuts

[13:11] Data versus creativity

[15:07] Freedom versus growth

[21:44] The grey soup crisis

[25:30] Breaking silence with courage

[27:56] Thinking out loud in public

[33:59] Learning through disagreement

[37:54] Branding by machines

MORE ABOUT ZOE:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/zoescaman

Website: bodacious.be

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guests are PJ Pereira and Andrew O’Dell, co-founders of renowned creative agency Pereira O’Dell as well as their AI venture SILVERSIDE– fresh from delivering Coca-Cola’s fully AI-generated 2026 Holidays Are Coming campaign.

Alongside the controversy and lessons learned, PJ and Andrew explain why SILVERSIDE was spun-out as a separate business, how speed and experimentation are reshaping creative processes, and why culture is everything when navigating change.

They also explore how AI is accelerating pressure on traditional agency business models – from production workflows to how value is priced and rewarded. This is an honest, optimistic conversation about fear, reinvention and leadership in a moment of rapid transformation.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:13] Reinventing an icon

[07:57] From creative indie to AI Lab

[15:48] Resilience in the echo chamber

[17:18] Finding the hand raisers

[23:45] Rethinking creative value

[26:00] Exposing broken models

[30:31] Learning by doing

[33:14] People-first mentality

[36:01] The gap between indies and network agencies

MORE ABOUT PJ PEREIRA AND ANDREW O'DELL:

LinkedIn (PJ): linkedin.com/in/pjpereira

LinkedIn (Andrew): linkedin.com/in/andrew-o-dell

SILVERSIDE AI: Silverside.ai

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Today’s guests are Brian Wieser and Olivia Morley – not only the co-hosts of the fantastic ‘Agency Business’ podcast, but Brian is also a seasoned analyst across advertising, tech and finance, and Olivia is an editorial and communications specialist, formerly of Adweek and Forrester.

Together, they bring an unusually rigorous focus to the choices agency leaders make. We explore why the sector is not, despite the prevailing narrative, in crisis – and why metrics such as capital efficiency and long-term value creation are often overlooked.

Olivia offers a critical perspective on organisational structure, culture, and operational reality, while Brian unpacks how agencies should think about investment, scale and survival.

We also dig into whether independents are truly ‘having a moment, the divergence between media and creative businesses, and why holding companies are describing themselves as platforms.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[01:58] Inside agency journalism

[03:58] The business of agencies

[07:12] Curiosity behind decisions

[12:54] Investing wisely

[16:52] Facts over feelings

[21:22] Pseudo independence

[24:38] Media scale versus creativity

[26:53] Agencies as platforms

[31:04] Technology drives consolidation

[37:54] Specialisation as strategy

MORE ABOUT OLIVIA AND BRIAN:

LinkedIn (Olivia): linkedin.com/in/oliviamorley

Fusion Front Media: linkedin.com/company/fusionfront-media

LinkedIn (Brian): linkedin.com/in/brianwieser

Madison & Wall: madisonandwall.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Luke McKelvey, Co-Founder and CEO of MIRIMAR – the creative company helping brands achieve cultural significance in a world where traditional advertising isn’t enough. And as of last week, ADWEEK’s newly minted small agency of the year for 2025.

Luke reflects on MIRIMAR’s early challenges, from launching ‘too soon’ in 2019 to navigating the pandemic. He also shares how conviction, focus, and a clear filtering system helped them find their footing with the right clients.

The conversation breaks down MIRIMAR’s ‘foundation and fame’ model – aligning brand and business, with smart talent partnerships that create impact without relying solely on paid media. 

Packed with sharp thinking, honest lessons, and a healthy dose of optimism, this is a masterclass in building an agency you truly believe in. 

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:02] Navigating early challenges

[06:58] Ambition over status quo

[09:26] The power of clarity

[15:51] Foundation and fame

[17:58] Positioning as an entertainment agency

[26:17] New era of partnerships

[29:18] Aligning intent and incentives

[35:12] Doubling down on insight

[38:47] Why north stars matter

[41:21] Making work worth it

MORE ABOUT LUKE:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/luke-mckelvey

Website: mirimarus.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire

Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Richard Huntington – former Chief Strategy Officer and Chairman of Saatchi & Saatchi. He brings a rare blend of honesty, affection and sharp-edged provocation to this conversation about the agency business. 

Richard describes an industry that’s been commodified – caused by the “creative” agency label that stripped out the commerciality, as well as a pitching culture that trains agencies to give away their most valuable thinking for free.

But far from being downbeat, this is a rallying cry for the brilliance inside agencies, and a clear-eyed look at why talent deserves to be paid fairly for the value it creates. From productisation and pricing, to shifting C-suite perceptions, Richard shares his vision for a healthier, more sustainable industry built on confidence, credibility and genuine differentiation.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:20] Advertising’s not dead yet

[07:50] Commodified by clients

[09:02] Creative as an adjective

[17:15] Reclaiming agency swagger

[19:41] Collective industry reform

[21:56] Rewriting the rules of pitching

[24:58] The remuneration shift

[28:36] Power of proprietary thinking

[34:12] Golden era of startups

MORE ABOUT RICHARD:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/richard-huntington-59a3761b9

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Market of One

 If you are a fan of this podcast, then you'll love my new book Market of One, how Your Agency can rewrite the Rules and create a lasting competitive advantage. Sharing my experience, repositioning close to 150 agencies over the last decade. Key Highlights: - Insights from repositioning 150+ agencies - Expert contributions from industry leaders Greg Hahn, Rory Sutherland, and Nils Leonard - Strategies for deeper differentiation and increased profitability Learn how to stand out, win more business, and command premium rates. Don't miss this opportunity! Visit marketofone.agency now and unlock your agency's potential.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Christy Hiler, owner of Cornett – the Lexington-based creative agency – and one of our industry’s leading voices for women-owned agencies. 

A huge advocate of empowering talent, Christy candidly shares her own unusual journey from being Cornett’s president to its owner, including the convictions that guided her forward – and the doubts that held her back. 

She talks about the importance of the ‘beautiful but deadly’ venus flytrap in describing what makes Cornett different, as well as her commitment to constant evolution. 

Christy also describes how the striking stat that only 1% of US agencies are women-owned sparked the creation of ‘Own It’ – a vibrant community, podcast and summit supporting women who run agencies.

This is an inspiring story and taking charge and making a real difference to the wider industry. 

HIGHLIGHTS:

[05:27] The underdog spirit

[09:38] The venus flytrap idea

[13:15] Building long-term relationships

[17:33] Women leading differently

[21:33] The 'Own It' initiative

[28:07] How equity fuels creativity

[32:07] Unlocking potential

[37:13] Doing things differently

MORE ABOUT CHRISTY:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/christyhiler

Website: teamcornett.com

OwnIt

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Today’s guest is Tyler Turnbull, Global CEO of Interpublic’s FCB – remarkably, the winner of Cannes Lions’ North American Network of the Year for seven years running. 

Tyler shares the mindset that’s driven this sustained creative and commercial performance. He unpacks where resilience comes from, and how curiosity, experimentation and a willingness to challenge legacy thinking underpins FCB’s momentum. 

Tyler also offers a refreshingly honest view of client relationships – including the crucial roles of empathy and deep commercial impact. 

Regardless of whether you’re running a small team or a global network, this is a compelling recipe for ongoing success. 

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:15] The power of consistency

[07:27] Resilience through people

[10:10] Reinvention never stops

[14:31] Walking in your client's shoes

[22:28] Challenging old habits

[30:46] Why small steps matter

[31:40] Culture built on trying

[34:28] Being premium by choice

[42:16] Commercial experimentation

MORE ABOUT TYLER:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/tylerturnbull

Website: fcb.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Market of One

 If you are a fan of this podcast, then you'll love my new book Market of One, how Your Agency can rewrite the Rules and create a lasting competitive advantage. Sharing my experience, repositioning close to 150 agencies over the last decade. Key Highlights: - Insights from repositioning 150+ agencies - Expert contributions from industry leaders Greg Hahn, Rory Sutherland, and Nils Leonard - Strategies for deeper differentiation and increased profitability Learn how to stand out, win more business, and command premium rates. Don't miss this opportunity! Visit marketofone.agency now and unlock your agency's potential.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Zihla Salinas, CEO of a 40-year-old indie that rebranded as ‘Yes&’. She shares the story behind the name, including how the improv-inspired mindset of ‘accept and build’ has become a blueprint for the business. 

This philosophy shapes everything from their M&A strategy and client partnerships, to leadership development and creative delivery. You’ll hear why figure-it-out-ability, curiosity and positivity are Yes&’s measurable values, not just words on a wall.

Zihla also unpacks how Yes& cracked the code for working with complex clients, and how great account service – not just great ideas – is often what makes the difference. 

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:25] The power of positivity

[07:00] The story behind Yes&

[11:04] What makes Yes& different

[16:10] Figure-Out-Ability

[19:30] Communication as a superpower

[21:33] Redefining client service

[23:12] Spotting positive mindsets

[28:42] Cultural alignment in clients

[34:46] Learning from success

[36:47] Smart cross-selling

[40:21] Building strong partnerships

MORE ABOUT ZIHLA:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/zihla

Website: yesandagency.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Market of One

 If you are a fan of this podcast, then you'll love my new book Market of One, how Your Agency can rewrite the Rules and create a lasting competitive advantage. Sharing my experience, repositioning close to 150 agencies over the last decade. Key Highlights: - Insights from repositioning 150+ agencies - Expert contributions from industry leaders Greg Hahn, Rory Sutherland, and Nils Leonard - Strategies for deeper differentiation and increased profitability Learn how to stand out, win more business, and command premium rates. Don't miss this opportunity! Visit marketofone.agency now and unlock your agency's potential.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Jarrod Moses, Founder and Global CEO of United Entertainment Group (UEG) – part of Edelman.

Jarrod unpacks how brands, creators, sports stars and celebrities meet in the fast-evolving world of culture and entertainment marketing. He reveals how UEG structures partnerships that go beyond timesheets and deliverables to also reward performance and behaviours. 

Jarrod also discusses the shifting power balance between creators, agencies and clients, the pitfalls of inauthentic partnerships, and the discipline it takes to stay entrepreneurial while leading a global agency network.

From UEG’s early work with Rihanna to long-term lessons in leadership, this conversation offers an inspiring look at the mechanics of one of the world’s pre-eminent marketing disciplines. 

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:01] The role of emotion

[04:35] Enhancing culture

[07:46] Taming the celebrity–brand beast

[09:35] Three truths of partnership

[12:34] Game plans for every client

[17:43] Believable spontaneity

[22:20] What kills authenticity

[27:57] Discovering Rihanna with Jay-Z

[33:51] UEG’s commercial formula

[35:58] Engaging the C-suite

MORE ABOUT JARROD:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jarrod-moses

Website: uegworldwide.com/

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Website: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Market of One

 If you are a fan of this podcast, then you'll love my new book Market of One, how Your Agency can rewrite the Rules and create a lasting competitive advantage. Sharing my experience, repositioning close to 150 agencies over the last decade. Key Highlights: - Insights from repositioning 150+ agencies - Expert contributions from industry leaders Greg Hahn, Rory Sutherland, and Nils Leonard - Strategies for deeper differentiation and increased profitability Learn how to stand out, win more business, and command premium rates. Don't miss this opportunity! Visit marketofone.agency now and unlock your agency's potential.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Loren Grossman, Global Chief Strategy Officer of the ‘Solutions Group’ within Publicis Groupe – so he’s right at the centre of how the agency world is evolving.

Loren describes a ‘golden age’ of impact, explaining how Publicis has built a future-facing model that goes far beyond marketing communications. From bold acquisitions like Epsilon and Sapient, to their ‘Power of One’ approach that brings every capability together, he shares how the group has worked hard to make integration really work – and how that’s fuelled their relentless new-business success with the likes of Coke and Mars. 

Packed with insights on leadership, culture and the real opportunities in AI and data, this conversation paints a truly optimistic picture of where agencies are headed and how to stay relevant in a rapidly changing market. 

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:31] Loren’s role

[07:44] Reinventing HoldCo.s

[09:26] How structure enables strategy

[13:19] Making bold acquisitions

[15:01] Integration made practical

[22:53] The ‘Power of One’ in action

[28:10] Partnership as a differentiator

[33:05] Avoiding the AI trap

[35:22] Building on CRM’s legacy

[39:18] The golden era of impact

MORE ABOUT LOREN:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/loren-grossman

Website: publicisgroupe.com/fr

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Site: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Today’s guest – for our 50th episode! – is Haley Hunter, Co-Founder of Party Land – proudly known as comedy’s greatest ad agency. In this lively conversation, Haley unpacks how humour has become a strategic superpower, not just a punchline.

She shares how Party Land went from convincing clients that comedy belonged in advertising to being the go-to agency for those wanting to master it – not least Liquid Death. Haley also dives into the neuroscience behind laughter, explaining how it primes audiences for connection and recall.

Beyond the creative side, she reveals how empathy, autonomy and trust fuel Party Land’s remote office set-up – and why comedy is as much about mindset as it is about craft.

It’s an inspiring lesson in leading with conviction, creating a new category and finding joy in the serious business of marketing. 

HIGHLIGHTS:

[01:57] Funny as a superpower

[04:05] Making the case for comedy

[11:08] Owning creative outcomes

[13:17] The art of pushing just enough

[16:23] Authenticity at work

[17:46] Freedom and liberation

[25:11] Finding the right people 

[29:51] Behind the laughter

[33:29] The biggest risk in advertising 

[38:23] Leading with joy and conviction

MORE ABOUT HALEY:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/hihaleyhunter

Website: partyland.co

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Site: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Market of One

 If you are a fan of this podcast, then you'll love my new book Market of One, how Your Agency can rewrite the Rules and create a lasting competitive advantage. Sharing my experience, repositioning close to 150 agencies over the last decade. Key Highlights: - Insights from repositioning 150+ agencies - Expert contributions from industry leaders Greg Hahn, Rory Sutherland, and Nils Leonard - Strategies for deeper differentiation and increased profitability Learn how to stand out, win more business, and command premium rates. Don't miss this opportunity! Visit marketofone.agency now and unlock your agency's potential.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

In a first for the show, today we have not one but two guests – Jaime Robinson and Lisa Clunie, co-founders of the creative agency JOAN, born in NYC and now smashing it in London and Berlin too. 

Jaime and Lisa reveal how they’re blending the rigour of classic brand building with the pace and energy of modern culture. They share why they believe now is a golden age of creativity, how disruption is reshaping the talent model and what it means to modernise brands.

You’ll hear their take on what makes a great client–agency fit, why conviction matters more than buzzwords, and how AI and reverse mentorship could define the next generation of creative leaders. It’s an authentic, optimistic conversation that captures the spirit of JOAN: bold, human and unapologetically modern.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:04] Joan's legendary beginnings

[06:56] Building timeless brands

[09:27] Firing clients that don’t fit

[13:59] Audience-first creativity in action

[16:17] Into a golden age

[19:21] An alchemy of strengths

[24:33] Wisdom meets the machine

[26:03] The power of shared mentorship

[30:36] Pitches as creative playgrounds

[34:18] A new industrial revolution

MORE ABOUT JAIME & LISA:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/hellojaimerobinson

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/lisaclunie

Website: joancreative.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Site: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Mentioned in this episode:

Market of One

 If you are a fan of this podcast, then you'll love my new book Market of One, how Your Agency can rewrite the Rules and create a lasting competitive advantage. Sharing my experience, repositioning close to 150 agencies over the last decade. Key Highlights: - Insights from repositioning 150+ agencies - Expert contributions from industry leaders Greg Hahn, Rory Sutherland, and Nils Leonard - Strategies for deeper differentiation and increased profitability Learn how to stand out, win more business, and command premium rates. Don't miss this opportunity! Visit marketofone.agency now and unlock your agency's potential.

Visit codefinery.com/dq

Today’s guest is Andrew Swinand, CEO of Inspired Thinking Group, a PE-backed and AI-enabled content business that is scaling faster than most in our industry. With two decades at Publicis, including running Leo Burnett and leading creative in the US, Andrew brings a rare dual perspective on both the creative and operational sides of the business.

He shares why the HoldCo.s are trapped in the classic Innovator’s Dilemma and how AI is reshaping the economics of content production. But far from AI replacing creativity, Andrew explains why operational AI is actually paving the way for a new creative renaissance.

From automating tens of thousands of assets, to rethinking how talent and technology combine, Andrew cuts through the noise to offer a clear view of the pressures and possibilities facing agencies today.

HIGHLIGHTS

[01:54] Taking the entrepreneurial path

[04:32] Why AI won’t replace creativity

[07:53] Blockers to agency innovation

[13:37] Delivering scale and speed

[17:53] Fear, uncertainty and hype

[23:46] Generative AI's real limits

[25:18] A new creative renaissance

[30:48] Leading with honesty

[32:37] Embracing humanity

MORE ABOUT ANDREW:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/andrewswinand

Website: inspiredthinking.group

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Site: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Today’s guest is John Harris, President & CEO of Worldwide Partners Inc. With nearly a decade leading the world’s most collaborative network of independent agencies – and a prior career inside holding companies – he brings a rare balance to one of the industry’s most polarised debates.

John explains indies’ undoubted ‘moment’, but also recognises the unique strengths of the holding company model. From global media buying muscle to the power of local market fluency, John unpacks where each approach adds value to clients.

Along the way, he shares how CMOs are regaining influence in the boardroom, why collaboration can’t be mandated and how AI is reshaping agency models. Optimistic, practical and refreshingly honest, John offers genuine insight for agencies of all sizes.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[02:17] Why ‘indies vs. HoldCo.s’ isn’t helpful

[06:29] The impact of local knowledge 

[10:46] Combining access, flexibility and partnership

[17:31] Proof points over promises

[19:27] From a moment to a movement

[22:32] Collaboration over scale

[27:47] Don't mess with culture

[30:00] Disrupting production and pricing

[33:49] Rise of the CMO

[36:30] What clients rarely admit

MORE ABOUT JOHN:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/netharris

Website: worldwidepartners.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Site: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Today’s guest is the incomparable Karen Martin, CEO of BBH London and Dublin, and President of the IPA. Known for her infectious optimism, Karen brings a fresh perspective to how agencies can thrive in uncertain times.

For her, positivity is more than just a nice-to-have – it’s a business imperative that lifts entire industries. Karen also argues that the sector is in better shape than many fear, and urges agency leaders to celebrate each other’s success more often.

Karen also dives into the importance of attracting diverse new talent, why AI should be embraced rather than feared, and how BBH’s famous ‘Barn’ programme is helping the next generation of creatives cut their teeth. 

Along the way, she explains why she believes creativity will always be the industry’s most powerful commercial tool, and how BBH has maintained its stellar reputation for so long. 

HIGHLIGHTS

[02:10] How energy fuels creativity

[06:36] Fresh talent finds a way

[10:22] Diversity unearths sharper insights

[13:09] People vs AI

[14:55] Earning a premium for critical thinking

[17:56] Driving business impact

[25:01] Partnerships formed through crisis

[31:24] Creating timeless platforms

[35:55] The value of competition

[39:49] Breaking the rules 

MORE ABOUT KAREN:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/karen-martin

Website: bartleboglehegarty.com

BBH Barn: bartleboglehegarty.com/barn2025

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Site: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Today’s guest is Guy Wieynk, Global CEO of AnalogFolk Group. This conversation is a masterclass in the business of creativity. With 17 years at AKQA, followed by a European CEO at Publicis, Guy knows how to blend scale with agility.

He unpacks the shift from big ideas to ‘open ideas’, and why connecting brands to culture isn’t optional but essential. From productising services to evolving pricing models, Guy shows how agencies can deliver speed and value at scale – without sacrificing creativity.

He also shares how he balances his role as Group CEO with the vision of AnalogFolk’s founders, who still play an active role in the business. 

If you’re curious about taking your clients on a journey towards new ways of working, this episode is full of real world insights. 

HIGHLIGHTS:

[03:04] Inside AnalogFolk’s strategy

[04:34] Lessons from AKQA and Publicis

[09:15] From hamster wheel to blank canvas

[14:19] The explosion of personalised content

[19:54] Defining a brand’s place in culture

[21:12] From campaigns to ecosystems

[26:43] Balancing hours, sprints and licensing models

[27:51] Taking conservative clients on a journey

[28:23] Model clients actually want

[35:45] How agility defines the future

MORE ABOUT GUY:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/guywieynk

Website: analogfolk.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Site: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Today’s guest is Dimi Albers, CEO of Dept – one of the new breed of fast-growth PE-backed agency groups. And if you think rapid scaling comes at the cost of culture, this conversation will prove you wrong.

Dimi shares how Dept has grown from 120 people in the Netherlands to more than 4,000 across 20+ countries – all while maintaining a unique ownership model with nearly 200 equity partners. He explains why having skin in the game creates deeper client relationships and a stronger sense of entrepreneurship across the business.

We explore the realities of working with private equity, from ideal investor relationships, to why due diligence matters goes well beyond spreadsheets. Dimi also reflects on talent – what younger generations really want, how to create belonging in a hybrid world, and why 20% churn is actually healthy.

Finally, he offers supreme optimism on AI – far from a job-killer, it’s the next big growth driver for agencies bold enough to embrace it.

HIGHLIGHTS:

[06:21] Dept’s unusual ownership model

[08:16] Retention as a cultural strength

[10:16] Shifting generational expectations

[18:05] Nuance in DEI

[25:04] Doing due diligence on your investors

[30:32] The realities of competing for clients

[34:11] Battling in crowded markets

[40:44] AI as an engine of prosperity

MORE ABOUT DIMI:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/dimialbers

Website: deptagency.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn:  linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

Site: codefinery.com

Book: Market of One

Today’s guest is Mark Figliulo, Founder and Creative Chairman at FIG – and if you’re worried about AI’s impact on creativity, then you’ll enjoy his proactive optimism.

From working with legends like Lee Clow to launching one of New York’s most respected indies, Mark’s on a mission to keep creativity relevant – not least by cutting through our industry's obsession with this brand versus performance. 

He explains how his team built StoryData – an AI-powered tool that measures and maps the emotional and visual DNA of campaigns. It proves their work is distinctive, emotional and on-brand, as well as reuniting creative and media, protecting the craft and making sure the brand story stays consistent from start to finish. 

At a time of huge disruption, Mark offers a refreshing and practical take on making technology work for creativity – not against it.

HIGHLIGHTS

[02:14] Being a reluctant optimist

[04:05] How brands thrive in digital

[09:12] Being storytellers for the information age

[13:21] Data vs creatives

[18:09] Automating creative analysis

[26:39] How silos weaken brands 

[30:35] Data as creative stimulus

[35:28] The future of AI and creativity

MORE ABOUT MARK:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/mark-figliulo

Website: figagency.com

HOST SOCIALS:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn

Twitter: twitter.com/robonn

MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY:

codefinery.com

Market of One