What makes a digital workplace truly effective? In this episode, I talk to Sharon O'Dea, co-founder of Lithos Partners, about the intricacies of navigating the digital workplace.

Sharon brings her wealth of experience in digital communications and workplace strategies to the table, sharing insights on how organizations can leverage technology to enhance employee performance and mitigate human risk.

The conversation delves into the practical challenges of managing digital workplaces, from AI integration to the complexities of remote work.

Sharon also offers personal anecdotes, including her unique experiences in Iraq and Amsterdam, shedding light on how geography can shape one’s professional journey.

You'll hear about the importance of effective communication, the risks of poor digital practices, and the evolving work landscape in a post-pandemic world.

Guest Biography

Sharon is the co-founder of Lithos Partners, a boutique consultancy that specializes in digital workplace strategies and internal communications.

With a career that spans several years in communications, Sharon has a rich background in digital transformation and helping organisations navigate the complexities of the modern workplace. Her work includes guiding companies in optimising digital employee experiences, managing organisational data, and adopting effective communication practices in an increasingly digital world.

On her official website, Sharon describes herself as a digital strategist passionate about using technology to enhance human potential.

Beyond her professional achievements, she is known for her engaging social media presence, sharing insights on digital work, remote working, and her experiences living in Amsterdam.


AI-Generated Timestamped Summary
[00:00:00] Introduction to the episode and guest Sharon O'Dea.

[00:01:00] Sharon discusses her work at Lithos Partners and her focus on digital workplace strategies.

[00:02:00] Sharon's experience in Iraq working with the fledgling Iraqi Parliament.

[00:04:00] Challenges of digital communication and collaboration in a sectarian context.

[00:06:00] Sharon’s move to Amsterdam and how the city influences her work and life.

[00:10:00] The importance of intentional communication in remote work environments.

[00:16:00] Discussion on AI note-takers and the risks they pose in workplace communication.

[00:20:00] Challenges of managing organizational data in a digital workplace.

[00:28:00] The debate over remote work versus returning to the office.

[00:32:00] The role of technology in building workplace connections and engagement.

[00:39:00] How to create value in the digital workplace and avoid bad digital practices.

[00:44:00] The evolving expectations for digital experiences in the workplace.

Links 

Sharon's website: https://sharonodea.com/

The Week Note that covers this episode: https://sharonodea.com/2024/08/25/weeknote-2024-34/

Sharon on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sharonodea/

Sharon's (now retired) account on Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/sharonodea

Introducing the Decision-Making Studio Podcast
If you’re a regular listener to the show, you’ll know that it’s all about the risks of human decision-making.
 
I try to bring you guests who can help us to better understand them and what we can do to mitigate them.
 
One of those guests is Ben Cattaneo, the host of his own podcast, which was one of the inspirations for this show. 

Ben’s show used to be called The All Things Risk podcast, but he recently rebranded it to The Decision-Making Studio podcast.
 
To mark this he launched what he calls an ‘inbetweenisode’ — a short explainer show — on his channel.  It's done with his trademark honesty, insightfulness and a touch of humour.  
 
If you’re listening to this show, then chances are you’ll find Ben’s show interesting. 

So, I thought I’d let Ben take over this channel to share why he’s changing the show’s name and breaking up with risk.

You’ll find the show on all the usual podcast platforms. 

Further information and links: https://thedecisionmaking.studio/podcast

To hear Ben’s previous appearances on this show: 

Ben on Decision-making (April 2024): https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/ben-cattaneo-on-decision-making-part-two/

Ben on All Things Risk (March 2020): https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/ben-cattaneo-on-all-things/

A cross-cast of this show and the All Things Risk podcast (April 2020): https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/all-things-human-risk-crosscast/

Why do some great ideas succeed while others fail despite having everything else in place?

On this episode, we welcome back Paul Orlando, an expert on unintended consequences and systems thinking.

Paul introduces his new book, "Why Now: How Good Timing Makes Great Products," and discusses the pivotal role timing plays in the success of startups and innovation.

Through historical examples and modern-day insights, Paul explains how to identify the right moment for launching new ventures and the frameworks he developed for timing analysis.

Bio
Paul is a seasoned entrepreneur, advisor, and author, known for his expertise in unintended consequences and systems thinking. 'Why Now' explores the crucial aspect of timing in innovation.

Summary of Key Points:

• 00:00: Introduction and welcome back to Paul Orlando.
• 01:00: Paul's shift from unintended consequences to the topic of timing.
• 02:00: The significance of timing in startup success.
• 05:00: Historical examples of timing, including AT&T and mobile telephony.
• 10:00: Frameworks and methodologies for analyzing timing.
• 14:00: Case study of YouTube and earlier attempts at video streaming.
• 20:00: The role of social and behavioral changes in timing.
• 30:00: How businesses can apply timing analysis in decision-making.
• 35:00: Personal reflections on the impact of timing on life and work.

Links
Paul's book: 'Why Now: How Good Timing Makes Great Products' - https://www.amazon.com/Why-Now-Timing-Makes-Products/dp/B0CYXSNMT3

Paul's website: https://startupsunplugged.com/

Paul's previous appearance on the show on Unintended Consequences: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/paul-orlando-on-unintended-consequences/

What do Alchemy and Magic have to do with human decision-making? 

On this episode, I’m joined by two Behavioural Science gurus who have both been on the show before: Rory Sutherland and Paul Craven. Rory is the author of Alchemy: The Surprising Power of Ideas That Don't Make Sense. Paul Craven is a magician and member of the prestigious Magic Circle. So that’s both bases covered!

Rory is also the Vice Chairman of Ogilvy, and Paul began his career in Finance with over 30 years working for Schroders, PIMCO and Goldman Sachs. Both are Behavioural Science thought leaders.

Since the show is approaching its 200th episode — this is the 199th — I thought I ought to celebrate it. So I did what we always do when we celebrate special occasions and decided to replicate the winning formula I used last time. On that occasion, I was joined by Rory Sutherland and Gerald Ashley. Since then, I’ve also recorded a doubleheader with Gerald and his and Rory’s good friend Paul Craven. Like Rory and Gerald, Paul has also done a solo appearance on the show.

So for two episodes, I’m joined by Rory Sutherland and Paul Craven. 

In our discussion — and I’m just talking about this episode here — we talk about framing, ethics, Sludge, electric cars, the best joke at this year’s Edinburgh festival — warning, it’s an adult joke — the Pratfall Effect, or why making mistakes can make us seem more human, ho one man saved the world from a nuclear war, the Beatles, how we look at data and so much more. Links to all of those are below.



Paul Craven - https://www.paulcraven.com/


Rory Sutherland - https://www.linkedin.com/in/rorysutherland/?



Rory’s book Alchemy - https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/430379/alchemy-by-rory-sutherland/9780753556528


Economist Nicholas Gruen - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Gruen



French magician Jean-Eugène Robert-Houdin - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Eug%C3%A8ne_Robert-Houdin



Former guest Gerald Ashley referring to Paul as a conman - https://twitter.com/HumanRiskLtd/status/1395316840105234432?s=20&t=7v2vbVi0FoiyzozKY9soug



Marks & Spencer’s ‘Dine In For Two’ Deal - https://www.marksandspencer.com/c/food-to-order/dine-in



Edward De Bono - https://www.debono.com/

Germany’s ’two click to unsubscribe’ law - https://www.thelocal.de/20220303/how-germany-is-making-is-easier-for-consumers-to-cancel-contracts/



Sludge - https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerdooley/2021/09/29/you-cant-nudge-if-youve-got-sludge/



[Warning: the most controversial show note ever. Contains adult content.
Spanish Comedian Ignacio Lopez on Dogging.

Here’s what the term means: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogging_(sexual_slang)].



Here’s the joke: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=246981890669484



The BBC series My Life As A Rolling Stone - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0018zwp

To hear previous episodes of the show featuring:

Paul - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/paul-craven-on-magic-money/

Rory - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-on-compliance/

Rory & Gerald Ashley Part One - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-gerald-ashley/

Rory & Gerald Ashley Part Two - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gerald-ashley-rory-sutherland/

Paul & Gerald Ashley Part One - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gerald-ashley-paul-craven/

Paul & Gerald Ashley Part Two - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/paul-craven-gerald-ashley/

What role does Trust play in Compliance? What is Voluntary Compliance and how effective is it?

This episode sees the return of the very first guest I ever had on the podcast, Professor Yuval Feldman of Bar-Ilan University in Israel. I asked Yuval to help me launch the show because his book “The Law Of Good People’ was a major influence on my human risk work. So, as we approach the 200th episode of the show, I wanted to get him back to
say thank you for all that he’s inspired and because I know that COVID has provided him with some amazing opportunities to further his research. Not only has he been helping the Israeli government to manage its response to the pandemic, but he’s also been able to find ways to use live under COVID as a large-scale field experiment.

In the show, we talk about the lessons Yuval has learned from his work during COVID, and his new book on Public Trust. He also shares his insights into his own experiences of compliance. We also discuss the project for which he was recently awarded European Research Council Grant on the subject of "Generating Voluntary Compliance Across Doctrines and Nations: Integrating the Behavioural and Regulatory Aspects of Governments’ Ability to Trust the Public’s Cooperation, Ethicality and Compliance"

Links to issues we discuss:

Yuval’s first appearance on the show - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-yuval-feldman-on-why/

His book ‘The Law of Good People’ - https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/law-of-good-people/DEB07C540F75D5D3B0A53B2499722F70

His faculty webpage - https://law.biu.ac.il/en/feldman

Professor Katy Milkman of Wharton - https://www.katymilkman.com/

Responsive Regulation by Ian Ayres & John Braithwaite - http://johnbraithwaite.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Responsive-Regulation-Transce.pdf

Personalised Law by Omri Ben-Shahar & Ariel Porat - https://global.oup.com/academic/product/personalized-law-9780197522813?

The blog by writer Ian Leslie that explores why Diversity & Inclusion teams should include people that don’t agree with D&I - https://ianleslie.substack.com/p/down-with-pronouns?
You can hear Ian’s appearance on this show here - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/ian-leslie-on-conflict-/

The research project Yuval did with Maryam Kouchaki and Francesca Gino about how the choice of language in a code of conduct impacts people’s responses to it- https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=56179

Details of his European Research Grant - https://www.biu.ac.il/en/article/11123

As employers adjust to a post-pandemic world, how can they design working practices that minimise human risk and maximise human reward?

My guest, Phil Libin, is an experienced CEO with some fascinating insights to share on what he calls ‘The Out Of Office World’. He’s the former CEO of Evernote and the co-founder and CEO of All Turtles, a product studio that solves what they describe as meaningful problems.

I first came across All Turtles when looking for a solution to make video presentations more engaging. In 2020, they launched a product called mmhmm which, in their words — and I’d agree — gives you ‘communication superpowers’. I’ve been using it ever since.

While our discussion begins with mmhmm, it’s the story of what the software inspired that I find really interesting. Because when All Turtles began using it internally, they also discovered a more effective way of working. What mmhmm inspired was the recognition that the perception we all have of video as a poor substitute for ‘in person’ meetings is wrong. There are certain activities that can be improved by the use of video — particularly asynchronous video — and recognising that ‘face to face’ time is so valuable means changing how we use that time. As Phil points out, he’s not created a blueprint for how all companies should think about working; it’s what works for them. But the ideas behind it are something that can inspire all companies.

To find out more about All Turtles, visit — https://www.all-turtles.com/

For mmhmm, the app that gives you ‘communication superpowers’ - https://www.mmhmm.app/home

The demo that I did of how I use mmhmm is here: https://www.mmhmm.app/blog/christian-hunt-compliance-expert

All Turtles also produces some fascinating videos and podcasts on the Out of Office World. Here’s a video that explains the philosophical underpinnings of their approach - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBKIMhGO8WA

I also recommend watching the mmhmm ‘Degrees of Freedom’ video podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHL6dBk6wAE

How did Behavioural Economics — or as I prefer to call it, Behavioural Science — evolve as a field? On this episode, I’m exploring that question with Professor Viswanathan Raghunathan, an academic who was previously the chairman of a large private bank.

Raghu,as he likes to be known. is the author of a new book called ‘Irrationally Rational: Ten Nobel Laureates script the story of Behavioural Economics’ which (unsurprisingly!) looks at the development of Behavioural Economics,through the work of ten Nobel laureates.

In an engaging narrative Raghu explores what each of them brought to the field and how their work is relevant in the modern world.

In our discussion we explore:

- Raghu’s interest in Behavioural Economics
- How he came to write the book
- The rationale for choosing the lens of Nobel laureates to review the field
- How he went about selecting stories and anecdotes that would make the work of the Laureates relevant to a 2022 audience
- The growth of Behavioural Science in India and what we can learn from that
- The challenges of implementing BeSci in India
- His plans for the future

To find out more about Raghu visit his website: http://www.vraghunathan.com/

To order the book..

In the UK: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Irrationally-Rational-Laureates-Behavioural-Economics/dp/0143458167/

In the US: https://www.amazon.com/Irrationally-Rational-Laureates-Behavioural-Economics-ebook/dp/B09X78MC2R

In India: https://www.amazon.in/Irrationally-Rational-Laureates-Behavioural-Economics-ebook/dp/B09X78MC2R

In Canada: https://www.amazon.ca/Irrationally-Rational-Laureates-Behavioural-Economics/dp/0143458167/ref=sr_1_1?crid=IML86ONWEUHT&keywords=9780143458166&qid=1658726318&sprefix=9780143458166%2Caps%2C545&sr=8-1

To learn more about Human Risk visit www.human-risk.com

For more on the Diversifi Behavioural Science network of which Human Risk is a founder member: https://www.diversifiglobal.com/

How can Behavioural Science help us better manage our financial affairs? Why should we still invest in oil companies if we believe in green energy? What does how we taste wine tell us about human decision-making?

All of these questions, and a lot more, are answered on this episode of the Human Risk podcast, where I’m joined by my guest Behavioural Finance expert Dr Greg Davies.

Greg has been on the show before. You’ll find that episode which he recorded together with Stuart Tootal, here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/stuart-tootal-greg-davies/

He works for Oxford Risk, a fintech that, in their words, ‘empowers financial institutions to provide hyper-personalised advice to their clients, for today and for a lifetime of financial decisions’. In our discussion, we explore three topics:

1. The challenges of making sound financial decisions and how an understanding of Behavioural Science can deliver better outcomes. Because, as Great explains, we’re not naturally good at making the best financial decisions for the longer term. Greg also shares some fascinating insights about how a combination of machines making diagnoses and humans prescribing solutions can lead to optimal outcomes.

2. Sustainability - Greg explains why counter-intuitively, we should continue to invest in fossil-fuel businesses and why promoting sustainable investments solely based on the returns they generate is missing an opportunity.

3. Finally, we talk about Behavioural Winetasting and why the way in which we taste wine can help us to understand flaws in human decision-making.

It’s an eclectic mix, but as you’ll hear, they’ve all got one thing in common — they’re things Greg can talk insightfully and passionately about.

To find out more about:
- Greg, see his LinkedIn and Twitter profiles: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregbdavies/ and https://twitter.com/GregBDavies
- Oxford Risk see their website: https://www.oxfordrisk.com/
- Behavioural Winetasting: https://www.johndownes.com/behavioral-wine-tasting

During our discussion, we also refer to other episodes of the podcast:

- Professor Olivier Sibony on ’Noise’ - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-olivier-sibony-on-noise/
- Nicole Ludvik-Smith on ’Skydiving & Stunts’ - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/nicole-smith-ludvik-on-skydiving-stunts/

How can we make sense of what we're told about risk? We're bombarded with messages on subjects ranging from COVID to the economy from people that range from genuine experts to those with no expertise but strong opinions. On this episode, I'm speaking to Professor David Spiegelhalter.

David is Chair of the Winton Centre for Risk and Evidence Communication within the Department of Pure Mathematics and Mathematical Statistics at Cambridge University. The Centre is dedicated to improving the way that quantitative evidence is used in society.

Listeners in the UK will almost certainly have seen or heard David. Since the start of the pandemic he’s been a regular fixture on TV and radio, helping to make sense of the things we're being told about the virus. In a world of self-appointed experts whose only qualification is from the University of YouTube and untrustworthy politicians telling us they’re "following the science", he’s been a voice of clarity and common sense.

In our discussion, we explore what drives David’s interest in statistics, why we like to see connections between things that might not actually be there, why the mantra of “following the science” is nonsensical and whether there is such a thing as coincidence. David also provides plenty of practical tips for communicating and interpreting messages about risk.

As you might expect for someone who specialises in risk communication, David is really good at getting his message across in ways we can all understand. My huge thanks to long-time friend of the show Roger Miles, who helped to make this conversation possible.

To find out more about David, visit his academic website: https://wintoncentre.maths.cam.ac.uk/about/people/professor-sir-david-spiegelhalter/

or his personal website: https://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~david/

You'll find his books in all good bookstores. For more information, visit:
The Art of Statistics — https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/294857/the-art-of-statistics-by-spiegelhalter-david/9780241258767
COVID by Numbers — https://www.penguin.co.uk/authors/126755/david-spiegelhalter

For video content, I recommend:
Communicating statistics in the time of COVID — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW9plVfanjo
False Positives — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmiEzi54lBI
Be Prepared To Show Your Working — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E12_F4xeOHw

In our discussion, we also refer to the episode featuring Tim Harford on using Data to Make Smarter Decisions. You can hear that here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/tim-harford-on-using-data/

How can we make work suck less? That’s what my guest Carina Maggar explores in her new book. She’s a creative copywriter who has worked with a number of leading brands including Pepsi, Levis, YouTube and Nintendo. As a student, Carina did a variety of jobs and while doing them she paid close attention to all the things she found interesting — things that stood out for some reason or another — and took notes. Those notes and some interviews she did with some other creative thought leaders form the basis for her new book How To Make Work Not Suck: Honest Advice for People With Jobs. It’s a collection of 120 irreverent, unusual, straight-talking insights about the world of work.


I really enjoyed reading her book and thought her insights, though incredibly simple, were really insightful, so I wanted to get her on the show.


In our discussion, we explore:
- What a copywriter does and how that’s relevant to Carina’s book;
- What inspired her to write the book;
- The process she went through in designing and writing the book;
- How her insights about work have shaped Carina’s thinking;
- The pieces of advice in her book particularly inspired me; and
- Her thoughts on careers and why conventional wisdom might not always apply.

To find out more about Carina visit www.carinamaggar.com

To see some sample pages of her book visit https://www.carinamaggar.com/howtomakeworknotsuck

How can companies manage the risks posed by the stress their senior leaders face? That’s what Says Life, the company founded by my guest on this episode, Jennifer Thamm, is looking to solve.

Says Life helps companies mitigate Human Risk at a leadership level by providing senior executives with a service that allows them to manage stress in their lives; whether at work or home.

Says Life works with the senior leader to help them identify where stress might arise and arrange appropriate support for them and their families, whether or not it's directly work-related. They also provide the employer with anonymised, aggregated data on the human risks facing their leadership, so the company can look to address the aspects it can control.

This fascinates me from a Human Risk perspective because it addresses two key areas:
- The fact that people in senior positions have a lot of industry experience doesn’t mean they don’t need psychological support to do their role. In fact, they might need more of it.
- What influences human decision-making inside work can be heavily influenced by what is happening outside of it.

Historically these things have been difficult for companies to explore. Both because the data wasn’t available, but equally because of understandable privacy concerns on the part of employees who might want to keep their private lives private.

In our discussion, Jennifer explains the logic behind the Says Life business model, and we explore how she is thinking about mitigating human risk for senior leaders.

To find out more about Jennifer and Says Life:
https://www.sayslife.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenniferthamm/

What happens when a journalist investigates one of the biggest scams in history? My guest on this episode, Jamie Bartlett is the author of ‘The Missing Cryptoqueen’, which tells the tale of his multi-year investigation into the disappearance of Dr Ruja Ignatova.

Dr Ruja is the founder of OneCoin, a cryptocurrency that sold itself as an alternative to Bitcoin but was instead a pyramid-style scam which relieved people from 175 countries of at least £4 billion.

The Missing Cryptoqueen is also the title of a BBC podcast that Jamie presents which explores the astonishing story behind OneCoin. In our conversation, Jamie explains how the One Coin scam worked, how he came across the story and what happened when he began to investigate it.

We begin our conversation by exploring Jamie’s early research into the Dark Net and how technology impacts our decision-making. He explains to my why, in many respects, algorithms prompt a reaction in us that is not dissimilar to religion.
In that discussion, we talk about the English Defence League. More on them here: https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/understanding-the-english-defence-league-life-on-the-front-line-of-an-imagined-clash-of-civilisations/

To hear the BBC podcast on The Missing Crypto Queen - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07nkd84

To learn more about Jamie’s book - https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/112/1120307/the-missing-cryptoqueen/9780753559581.html

How did a journalist with a relentless appetite for the truth, bring down a $30bn German tech company? The company in question is Wirecard and the journalist is my guest on this episode, FT reporter Dan McCrum. He’s just released a new book called ‘Money Men: A Hot Startup, A Billion Dollar Fraud, A Fight For The Future’ in which he explores both the story of Wirecard and its downfall and the efforts he went to as a journalist to investigate it.

In what was one of the — if not *the* — financial investigations of the decade, Dan and his FT colleagues pursued a story of fraud, that is ready-made for a movie. Yet, it's a real-life story that reveals hidden worlds of short-sellers and whistleblowers, pornographers and private militias, hackers and spies. In Money Men, Dan explains not only the story of WireCard but also how he and his colleagues went about investigating it.

In our discussion, we explore:

- How Dan became a Financial Times journalist;
- The types of story he likes to investigate and why WireCard fascinated him;
- The lengths reporters need to go to, in order to get to the story;
- How short sellers helped provide valuable insights;
- The astonishing response of the German authorities to the Wirecard story;
- Some incredible stories that unfolded as Dan investigated;
- The personal toll such a story takes on a reporter;
- The role of cognitive biases in reporting and our perception of the world.

To find out more about Money Men, which is out now, visit https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/144/1444756/money-men/9781787635043.html

The German version is called The House of Wirecard: https://www.ullstein-buchverlage.de/nc/buch/details/house-of-wirecard-9783430210645.html

To learn more about Dan’s investigation you can read this FT profile:
https://www.ft.com/content/745e34a1-0ca7-432c-b062-950c20e41f03

Dan also spoke at ECEC — Europe’s largest Ethics & Compliance Conference in 2020 – you can watch a recording of that here: https://www.eqs.com/compliance-knowledge/events/ecec-mccrum/ .

ECEC is returning soon, so do join me at ECEC 2022 in October. You can get your free virtual ticket here:https://www.ecec-community.com/

What can canaries in coalmines teach us about diversity and inclusion? In this episode, I’m speaking to an academic who has some fascinating ideas and insights into how we can create more inclusive work environments and cultures — in other words, how to get the best out of all employees.

Guest Bio
My guest, Dr. Ludmila Praslova, is a Professor and the Founding Director of Graduate Programs in Organizational Psychology at Vanguard University in Costa Mesa, California. She is an industrial organizational psychologist with a background in global diversity, intercultural relations, and, more recently, neurodiversity in the workplace.

She’s also the author of a new book called 'The Canary Code: A Guide to Neurodiversity, Dignity, and Intersectional Belonging at Work’ which takes a concept you’ve heard of — the canary in the coal mine — and applies it to the world of inclusion.
 
Her simple yet fascinating idea is that if we can focus on meeting the needs of those who are most sensitive to negative workplace dynamics and then create an environment that allows them to flourish, we can create an environment where everyone can flourish.


Episode Description:
In our discussion, we explore the importance of removing barriers in the workplace, the pitfalls of traditional hiring practices, and how the Canary Code works in practice. You'll hear 
insights on creating inclusive environments, addressing workplace biases, and why something I've often done, viewing neurodivergent traits as 'superpowers', is actually unhelpful.

AI-generated timestamp summary
[00:00:00] - Introduction

• Christian Hunt introduces Dr. Ludmila Praslova, discussing her book "The Canary Code" and its focus on inclusive work environments.

[00:01:00] - Ludmila's Background

• Ludmila, an industrial-organizational psychologist, specializes in global diversity, intercultural relations, and neurodiversity.

[00:03:00] - Interest in Diversity

• Ludmila's journey into diversity began with global diversity and now focuses on intersectional inclusivity and neurodiversity.

[00:07:00] - The Canary Code Concept

• The concept suggests that addressing the needs of the most vulnerable employees can improve conditions for all.

[00:11:00] - Flexibility in the Workplace

• Emphasizes creating flexible work environments to reduce workplace toxicity and improve productivity.

[00:18:00] - Neurodiversity Explained

• Neurodiversity includes ADHD, dyslexia, autism, and other neurological differences that impact workplace experiences.

[00:22:00] - Managerial Concerns

• Managers don't need to specialize in every condition but should create generally inclusive and flexible environments.

[00:25:00] - Job Matching and Crafting

• Focus on matching jobs to individual strengths and job crafting to optimize roles.

[00:28:00] - The Limits of Flexibility

• Some roles require specific skills and cannot be flexible, but many roles can adapt to a diverse workforce.

[00:31:00] - Validity in Hiring Practices

• Emphasizes the need for valid, job-relevant assessments in hiring to ensure fairness and effectiveness.

[00:39:00] - Resistance to Change

• Some organizations resist flexible work practices, but modern, flexible practices can help attract and retain talent.

[00:46:00] - Book Structure

• "The Canary Code" is structured to be accessible to CEOs, diversity professionals, and neurodivergent individuals, with stories, research, and practical advice.

[00:58:00] - The Superpower Myth

• While neurodivergent individuals may see their traits as superpowers, using this as a hiring argument is problematic.

[01:02:00] - Conclusion

• Advocates for creating environments where everyone can thrive without needing extraordinary measures. Encourages more inclusive and flexible workplace practices.

Links
Ludmila's Faculty Page - https://www.vanguard.edu/about/history

The Canary Code - https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/742858/the-canary-code-by-ludmila-n-praslova-phd/

Ludmila on Social Media
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ludmila-praslova/
Twitter/X - https://x.com/ludmilapraslova

A piece explaining the point we discussed on the show about why neurodiversity isn't a 'superpower' - https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/positively-different/202405/healing-the-invalidation-the-complex-truth-of-autism

How can we be better at negotiating and why does it matter?

When we think of negotiation, we tend to think of formal situations like buying a house, sealing a business deal or getting a hostage released. But it also applies to many of our day to day conversations, where we’re looking to achieve a particular outcome.

My guest on this episode Fotini Iconomopoulos had a childhood nickname of ‘The Negotiator’ and she’s been doing it ever since then. Fotini specialises in helping executives around the world to get better deals and trains their teams to negotiate more effectively. She is the author of a best selling book “Say Less, Get More: Unconventional Negotiation Techniques to Get What You Want” and she teaches MBA students at York University's Schulich School of Business in Canada.

Fotini’s insights can help all of us to have better conversations - whether we’re formally negotiating, or just having a discussion where there are a series of potential outcomes. If we get better at negotiating, we can make better decisions and deliver better outcomes. In short, we can reduce human risk.

In our discussion, we explore what negotiation is, why it matters and how we can all be better at it. You’ll also hear some thoughts on simple techniques we can all deploy to be better negotiators and why ‘I win, you lose’ isn’t the only available strategy; often a ‘win:win’ outcome is possible, if we think creatively about how we might get there.

My huge thanks to Professor Todd Kashdan who was kind enough to introduce me to Fotini as someone I should get onto the show. He wasn’t wrong. So if you liked this episode, do also listen to the one featuring Todd where he talks about constructive insubordination: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-todd-kashdan-on-insubordination/

To find out more about Fotini, her book “Say Less, Get More: Unconventional Negotiation Techniques to Get What You Want” visit her website: https://fotiniicon.com/

You’ll find her on social media:

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/fotiniicon

Twitter - https://twitter.com/fotiniicon?

LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/fotiniiconomopoulos

To be notified when new episodes of the show are released subscribe to the Human Risk podcast newsletter: https://www.getrevue.co/profile/humanrisk?

What is Creative Courage & why do we need it?

On this special episode of the show — which I’m releasing between the normal schedule — my guest James Victore helps me to explore why being creative is a matter of courage and why we should embrace it.

A word of warning: the episode contains lots of adult language. It’s also one that some regular listeners will absolutely love and some o really won’t. Which is ok from my perspective. The point of the podcast isn’t to produce bland content that might appeal to everyone. It’s to bring you episodes that I hope will stimulate you and brign different perspectives.

James Victore is an artist, designer and author. He’s also a trainer and coach who helps people to unleash their creative sides. Having read his book Feck Perfuction — yes, that is the title — I wanted to get him on the show.

I’m also in the middle of one of James’ courses. Called, appropriately enough The Bad Ass Way. And yes, I paid full price for the course, so he’s on the show because I think he’s awesome, not for some commercial arrangement.

On the show you’ll learn what creativity is, why it matters, how we can find it, why we often don’t get the chance to display it and the risks/rewards of making a career of it.

I love this episode and I hope you will too.

To find out more about James, his book Feck Perfuction and his awesome courses visit: www.jamesvictore.com

You can also find him on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jamesvictore/

Why did a group of hackers with links to North Korea launch a cyber attack on Sony Pictures in 2014? That’s what journalist Geoff White set to find out. In doing so, over a period of several years, he uncovered a trail of criminal activity that included a bank heist, data leaks and money laundering.

On this episode, Geoff, whose new book The Lazarus Heist tells the story of what he discovered, explains how Geoff came to investigate the story, how he went about researching it and the lessons he’s learned from doing so. We also examine some of the dynamics of the issues the story raises, including cybercrime, money laundering and electronic warfare.

It’s an astonishing tale that has human risk all over it.

To find out more about Geoff visit: https://geoffwhite.tech/

To pre-order The Lazarus Heist book: https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/447/447163/the-lazarus-heist/9780241554258.html

To hear the podcast: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w13xtvg9/episodes/downloads

To be notified when new episodes of this show come out visit: https://www.getrevue.co/profile/humanrisk

What is ESG and why might it lead to poor decision-making?

You probably know it’s short for Environmental, Social, and Governance; an acronym that covers three topics of interest to investors. In simple terms, three things they look for to determine how environmentally and socially conscious the company is. Or in even simpler terms, is this a good, ethical company?

As regular listeners will know, this isn’t an investment podcast, so what’s the human risk angle here? Well, metrics like ESG are a good example of how we develop systems - in this case metrics that are ways of analysing the way in which companies are run — that allow us to answer complex questions. There’s nothing wrong with keeping things simple. Yet, as ESG illustrates, those systems can sometimes over-simplify the world such that we miss things, induce unintended consequences and feel good about ourselves when in fact we really shouldn’t.

So I wanted to explore what ESG is and the flaws of looking at the world through the artificial lens it creates.

My guest on this episode is Alison Taylor. She’s the Executive Director of Ethical Systems, part of NYU Stern School of Business, which is a collaboration between leading academics working on behavioural science, systems thinking and organizational psychology. Ethical Systems aim to help companies build more ethical and effective cultures via approaches based on credible research. We are dedicated to driving a more holistic and considered approach to the future of corporate integrity, beyond functional silos.

Alison has been on the show before - there’s a link to that below — and is always incredibly insightful and great company.

In our discussion, we dissect what ESG means — in theory, and in practice — and explore how companies are responding to it. That takes us onto questions such as ‘how are companies responding to social trends like ‘Black Lives Matter’, ‘are companies right to insist that people return to the office/work from home’ and ‘should companies have a position on every social issue that comes up?’.

To find out more about Alison and Ethical Systems visit ww.ethicalsystems.org/

You’ll find her on Twitter: https://twitter.com/followalisont and LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/followalisont/

Discover the Breaking The Fever podcast here: https://www.ethicalsystems.org/breaking-the-fever-podcast/
I

How can we manage the ethical challenges faced in business?

On this special episode of the show, I’m speaking to Professor Josephine Nelson, the co-author of a brand new book called ‘Business Ethics: What Everyone Needs To Know’. Josephine — who publishes as JS Nelson — is a Professor of Business Ethics (Law) at Villanova Law School and is currently a visiting professor at Harvard business school.

The episode is special because I’m releasing it just a few days after recording as an extra episode between the regular schedule. That usually only happens when I’ve recorded an episode about something topical in the news. Ethics is something I’ve covered before (links to relevant episodes below).

The reason I’m rushing this episode out is personal. Not because I have to resolve many ethical issues in my business — though, as you’ll hear, we all have to deal with them on an ongoing basis and if you think you don’t, watch out! Instead, because of the considerable number of times I’ve found myself talking about the ideas shared by my guest since recording. The insights provided by Josephine have come up so many times, in such a short period, that I wanted to get the episode out asap. In part, so the clients I’ve already spoken to about them — and those I undoubtedly will — can hear it directly from her. That hopefully also means it’s highly relevant to you.

Josephine’s insights in the book and on the show aren’t just relevant to our work environments. They can also help us to think about the decisions made by companies we engage with — or choose not to — politicians we vote for - or don’t — and those with whom we surround ourselves — or don’t.

The episode contains some very simple observations about ethics. But don’t let the simplicity fool you. They’re astonishingly insightful and practical. I can’t recommend the book enough, and I’m really excited to bring you this episode because what Josephine has to say is incredibly important. And if you think that means an overly serious episode, think again. As you’ll hear, Josephine is a lot of fun, and there’s lots of laughter.

To find out more about Josephine’s work at Harvard Business School - https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/profile.aspx?facId=876714

To learn more about the book she co-authored with Lynn Stout, “Business Ethics: What Everyone Needs to Know” and to explore her areas of research, visit Josephine’s website - https://www.jsnelson.net/

During our discussion, we talk about

Josephine’s previous appearance on the show, a cross cast of Alison Taylor & Jerome Tagger’s Breaking The Fever Podcast on Workplace Surveillance: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-j-s-nelson-on/

Professor Yuval Feldman’s work on writing rules for ‘Good People’ - https://www.law.nyu.edu/sites/default/files/upload_documents/Feldman%20The%20Law%20of%20Good%20People.pdf

The Boeing 737 Max Scandal - https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/cold-call-what-went-wrong-with-the-boeing-737-max

The Wells Fargo Cross-Selling Scandal - https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2019/02/06/the-wells-fargo-cross-selling-scandal-2/

The Wells Fargo Fake Account Scandal - https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/02/21/business/wells-fargo-settlement.amp.html

The Volkswagen Diesel Scandal - https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34324772.amp

The Johnson Johnson Baby Powder Scandal - https://www.forbes.com/sites/korihale/2022/03/02/johnson--johnson-attempts-to-side-step-100-million-baby-powder-settlement/

Her co-author Lynn Stout — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_A._Stout

Mary Gentile’s system called ‘Giving voice to Values’ which Josephine describes as “how to speak truth to power, without getting fired” — https://givingvoicetovaluesthebook.com/

‘Ethics Unwrapped’ from the McComb School of Business at the University of Texas — https://ethicsunwrapped.utexas.edu/

How Swiss Bank Credit Suisse tried to track down a whistleblower — https://www.finextra.com/newsarticle/39731/credit-suisse-calls-in-expert-help-to-hunt-down-whistleblower

Some of the other ethics-related episodes of the show:

Ruth Steinholtz on Ethical Cultures - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/ruth-steinholtz-on-ethical-cultures/

Dr Sarah Eaton on Ethics in Academia - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-sarah-eaton-on-ethics/

Dr Todd Haugh on the Behavioural Aspects of Ethics & Compliance - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-todd-haugh-on-the/

Rob Chestnut on how companies can help their employees to work with integrity - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rob-chesnut-on-how-companies/

Rabbi Yonason Goldson on a Rabbi’s View of Ethics -https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rabbi-yonason-goldson-on-a/

Maarten Hoekstra on Ethics: ‘making the good doable’ -https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/maarten-hoekstra-on-ethics-making/

How can we implement Behavioural Science in larger organisations?
On this episode, I’m doing a deep dive into practical Behavioural Science with three practitioners from across the globe, who talk about some of the projects they’ve been working on. 


My guests are all from Ogilvy Consulting, a leading Behavioural Science practice and each work in different regions.

Heather Watson heads up Ogilvy’s North American BeSci team from Austin, Texas, Dan Bennett is responsible for the UK and is based in London and Paolo Mercado is in Manila.
To connect or learn more about them:

Heather - https://www.linkedin.com/in/heathernwatson/
Dan - https://www.linkedin.com/in/thebestdanielbennett/
Paolo - https://www.linkedin.com/in/paolo-mercado-0a4a8a17/

The idea behind the episode is to illustrate the breadth of challenges to which Behavioural Science can be put to use. You’ll hear about improving customer experience, protecting people who work in safety-critical industries by helping them to change their behaviour to be more compliant with safety protocols and how Behavioural Science can help improve sales of consumer products. We also explore some of the challenges of deploying Behavioural Science in larger organisations – the obstacles, both practical and political – and the fact that we can sometimes end up proposing counter-intuitive or unorthodox solutions, which work brilliantly but can defy the logic by which normal corporate decisions are made. But that’s the whole point. Behavioural Science allows us to come up with effective solutions to common business problems, that can’t easily be solved by traditional thinking.

It’s also an opportunity for us to preview Nudgestock, Ogilvy's annual festival of behavioural science and creativity and get some clues about what you can expect.
You can find out more about Nudgestock at www.nudgestock.com

To be notified when new episodes of the show are available subscribe to the podcast newsletter: https://www.getrevue.co/profile/humanrisk

If you enjoy this episode, you can find my discussions with other members of the Ogilvy BeSci team:

Maddie Croucher who talked to me about how BeSci can help fundraising: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/maddie-croucher-on-behavioural-science-for-fundraising/

Sam Tatam introduced his book ‘Evolutionary Ideas’ on how Mother Nature can inspire BeSci solutions https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/sam-tatam-on-evolutionary-ideas/

Benoit de Fleurian explained how BeSci is helping to reduce anti-social behaviour https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/benoit-de-fleurian-on-preventing/

And, last but definitively not least, Rory Sutherland talked about Compliance https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-on-compliance/

How can we travel adventurously while still being sustainable? I’m a huge fan of exploring, but I’m also very conscious of my environmental footprint.

On this episode, I’m speaking to Sustainable Adventurer Wiebe Wakker. He’s a Dutchman who likes exploring the world in an environmentally friendly ways.

Wiebe came to my attention earlier this year when we went from Amsterdam to Dubai by train for an environmental conference. That wasn’t his first adventure. He’d previously spent 3.5 years travelling from The Netherlands to New Zealand by electric car. That journey means that Wiebe holds the current world record for completing the longest ever electric car trip in the world covering a distance of about 95,000 kilometres.

In our discussion, we explore what inspires Wiebe to undertake his adventures, what he’s learned from doing it and I explain how he’s influenced me.

To find out more about Wiebe, visit his website: https://plugmeinproject.com/

You’ll find him on social media:

Twitter - https://twitter.com/wiebewkkr?lang=en

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/plugmeintravel/?hl=en

LinkedIn - https://nl.linkedin.com/in/wiebewakker

During our discussion, we talk about:

Seat61.com - an amazing website for planning train adventures

How can charities use Behavioural Science to be more effective at fundraising? It’s a question a number of listeners have asked me to explore; either because they work for charities or because they want to help their favourite causes to raise more money. Even if neither of those things apply, what we can learn from how charities can be better at raising funds, is relevant in other contexts.

My guest on this episode is Maddie Croucher, a behavioural science practitioner who specialises in interventions to support social impact work. Maddie has boosted fundraising income for Christian Aid, helped improve donor retention for DKMS - an international nonprofit bone marrow donor centre - and developed interventions to tackle malnutrition with The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.

She’s also the co-author of a book called Change for Better that provides practical help for fundraisers.

In our discussion, we talk about:

Change For Better, the book Maddie co-authored - https://www.dsc.org.uk/publication/change-for-better/
It's also available on Kindle - https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Change-Better-Bernard-Ross-ebook/dp/B09X5SDBKV/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1UVA9QO1BGHFU&keywords=Change+for+better&qid=1650660657&sprefix=change+for+better%2Caps%2C68&sr=8-1

The Jam Experiment — an experiment that highlighted how Choice Overload (having too many options) can make it harder for people to decide, so they often don’t bother. https://medium.com/@FlorentGeerts/the-jam-experiment-how-choice-overloads-makes-consumers-buy-less-d610f8c37b9b

Charity Water - a charity that seeks to address the fact that 771 million people lack basic access to clean and safe drinking water. https://www.charitywater.org/

Wikipedia’s annual fundraising - https://medium.com/@chriskfundraising/why-doesnt-social-proof-work-for-wikipedia-fundraising-65d55a047911

The Pillion Trust’s ‘Fuck The Poor’ campaign - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rElgYNemi1A

Gift Aid, the UK scheme that allows taxpayers to increase teh size of tier charitable donations by reclaiming tax - https://www.cafonline.org/my-personal-giving/plan-your-giving/individual-giving-account/how-does-it-work/gift-aid

Nudgestock, Ogilvy’s Annual Behavioural Science Festival which this year is on June 10th - https://nudgestock.com/

The Ogilvy 2022 Behavioural Science Annual Report - https://www.ogilvy.com/ideas/behavioral-science-annual-2022

You can follow Maddie on Twitter - https://twitter.com/maddie_croucher

To be notified whenever a new episode of the show comes out, subscribe to the Human Risk podcast newsletter - https://bit.ly/3skhz1Q

What does behaviour have to do with procurement? On the face of it, not much. But as my guest on this episode David Loseby explains, behind every procurement and supply chain operation, there are human beings involved in the design and management of the processes.

In other words, they’re areas that present huge opportunities for human risk to manifest itself. As David, who specialises in helping companies to manage the behavioural dynamics behind operational decisions, explains, there are trade-offs that need to be made. Just in time processes can deliver lower costs by reducing the need to warehouse stock and tie up working capital. But, as we saw under COVID, they’re also extremely vulnerable when things don’t go according to plan.

If we ignore human decision-making and what can be done to mitigate the risks it poses. It’s also worth remembering that if companies have a procurement function, it means that the amount of money they’re spending on procurement activities is large enough to justify the function's existence. Which is great if they get things right. But not so good when they get things wrong.

David has over 25 years of experience at a senior executive/director level driving value and change through procurement and organisational transformation.
His varied background enables him to draw on not only his various global experiences, sector diversity and responsibilities within many Public Bodies as well as FTSE 100 companies. 


During our discussion, we talk about

- David’s background & research: https://research-portal.uea.ac.uk/en/persons/david-loseby

- David’s book Soft Skills for Hard Business: https://www.cambridgeacademic.com/product/soft-skills-for-hard-business

- The VUCA framework short for volatility, uncertainty, complexity, ambiguity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volatility,_uncertainty,_complexity_and_ambiguity

- The COM-B model of behaviour change https://thedecisionlab.com/reference-guide/organizational-behavior/the-com-b-model-for-behavior-change

- The Tanker driver who was followed by a line of drivers, who discovered that he wasn’t carrying fuel: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-58767230


You can get hold of David via his LinkedIn page: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-loseby-cpochangeexecdir/

To be notified of new episodes of the show, subscribe to the Human Risk podcast newsletter: https://www.getrevue.co/profile/humanrisk

What makes a good leader? When we think of leaders, we often imagine lone, inspirational figures lauded for their behaviours, attributes, and personal decisions. However, leaders also have an impact on the way people around them make decisions.

My guest on this episode is Professor Don Moore. Don is the Lorraine Tyson Mitchell Chair in Leadership and Communication at Berkeley Haas and serves as Associate Dean for Academic Affairs.

Don is the co-author of a book with Professor Max Bazerman called Decision Leadership: Empowering others to make better choices, that explores the idea of organisations in the 21st century as decision factories in which effective effective leaders are decision architects, enabling those around them to make wise, ethical choices consistent with their own interests and the organization’s highest values. As a result, a leader’s impact grows because it ripples out instead of relying on one individual to play the part of heroic figure.



To find out more about Don: https://haas.berkeley.edu/faculty/moore-don/

To learn more about Decision Leadership: https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300259698/decision-leadership/

To hear Don’s previous appearance on the show:
https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-don-moore-on-confidence/

To hear the previous episode of the show with Wendy Lambourne on Legitimate Leadership: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/wendy-lambourne-on-legitimate-leadership/

How is technology impacting money laundering? On this episode, I'm welcoming investigative journalist Geoff White back onto the show.

In 2022, Geoff joined me to talk about his book and podcast The Lazarus Heist, the story of how North Korean hackers launched an attack on Sony Pictures in 2014.

This time, he's back to talk about his brand new book 'Rinsed' which looks at money laundering in a digital world. 

In it, Geoff explores how thieves who steal digital money that’s highly traceable, launder it so that they can make use of it? 

In a wide-ranging disucssion, we also talk about Geoff’s work as an investigative reporter — how does he get his information, what are the risks in doing what he does and you’ll hear the astonishing reasons why people you might not expect would want to talk to him, actually do.

Links
Hear Geoff's previous appearance on the show talking aboiut The Lazarus Heist:
 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/geoff-white-on-the-lazarus-heist/

His BBC World podcast of the same name - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w13xtvg9/episodes/downloads

Learn more about his new book 'Rinsed' - https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/455031/rinsed-by-white-geoff/9780241624838

Geoff's website - https://geoffwhite.tech/

Timestamped Notes (generateed by AI)

[00:00:00] - Introduction

• Christian welcomes Geoff White back to the podcast.
• Geoff's new book "Rinsed" and updates since his last appearance.

[00:01:00] - North Korea's Cyber Activities

• Discussion on North Korea's cyber operations and the Axie Infinity hack.
• The scale and speed of the $625 million cryptocurrency theft.

[00:02:00] - Money Laundering Techniques

• The importance of money laundering in cybercrime.
• How hackers collaborate with financial experts to launder money.

[00:03:00] - Evolution of Money Laundering

• The shift from traditional cash-based laundering to digital methods.
• Examples of how different criminal groups use technology to launder money.

[00:04:00] - Money Laundering as a Service

• The concept of "Money Laundering as a Service."
• Comparison with "Hacking as a Service."

[00:05:00] - Classic Money Laundering Stages

• Explanation of the three stages: placement, layering, and integration.
• Historical context with examples from the 1980s.

[00:09:00] - Digital Era of Money Laundering

• Challenges of tracing digital money.
• The global nature of digital money laundering and its implications.

[00:10:00] - International and Technological Aspects

• How criminals use technology to launder money across borders.
• The role of cryptocurrency in modern money laundering.

[00:13:00] - Role of Financial Institutions

• The involvement of traditional financial institutions in money laundering.
• How compliance teams can combat these activities.

[00:14:00] - Investigating Money Laundering

• Geoff's research methods and challenges in uncovering these stories.
• The importance of firsthand accounts and digital breadcrumbs.

[00:17:00] - Notable Cases

• Key cases from Geoff's book, including the Axie Infinity hack and others.
• The significance of technology in these crimes.

[00:20:00] - Interaction with Law Enforcement

• Experiences with law enforcement agencies during investigations.
• The case of the Instagram influencer Hushpuppi.

[00:23:00] - Personal Safety and Cyber Risk

• Geoff's approach to managing personal cyber risk.
• The importance of separating public and private online personas.

[00:26:00] - The WannaCry Ransomware Attack

• Challenges in tracing ransomware payments.
• A specific investigation into the WannaCry attack.

[00:28:00] - Future of Cyber Risk

• Geoff's views on the future of cyber risk and AI.
• The potential for AI to assist both criminals and investigators.

[00:34:00] - Regulation and Technology

• The need for proactive regulation in tech and finance.
• Challenges faced by regulators in keeping up with rapid technological advancements.

[00:40:00] - Title and Cover of the Book

• The process behind choosing the book's title, "Rinsed."
• Importance of a compelling cover and subtitle.

[00:42:00] - Continuous Learning in Cybercrime

• The evolving nature of cybercrime stories.
• The impact of new developments on the book's content.

[00:46:00] - Tech Enablers and Libertarian Views

• Common traits among tech enablers in money laundering.
• The vision of a new world driven by innovative financial technologies.

[00:51:00] - Advice for Regulators

• Geoff's perspective on how regulators can keep pace with technological change.
• The balance between enabling innovation and preventing crime.

[00:55:00] - Conclusion

• Geoff's final thoughts and a reminder about his book "Rinsed."
• Encouragement to support local bookstores through Bookshop.org.

What distinguishes a good leader from a bad one?

My guest on this episode, Wendy Lambourne is a proponent of Legitimate Leadership — the idea that to have real power, leaders need to have legitimacy. Not by dint of being appointed, but by the way in which they fulfil their role.

She believes that leaders stand or fall at the end of the day on the basis of their intent, or motive. Or to put it another way, whether they’re in the relationship to give to their people, or to get something out of them.

Since leadership is all about people leading other people, there’s lots of potential for human risk.

In our discussion we explore:
- how Wendy came to discover the idea of Legitkamte Leadership (LL);
- what LL means in practice;
- how leaders can manifest it;
- the difference between authority and power;
- what the implications are for businesses of adopting LL; and
- what Wendy has learned from teaching the framework to others.

To learn more about Legitimate Leadership see https://legitimateleadership.com/

To buy Wendy’s book: https://www.amazon.com/Wendy-Lambourne/e/B00CASM2C4?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_5&qid=1614152045&sr=8-5

When we need to solve problems, we often think we need to develop new ideas. But what if that were wrong?

On this episode, I’m joined by Behavioural Science practitioner Sam Tatam whose new book Evolutionary Ideas shows how behavioural science and evolutionary psychology can help us solve tomorrow’s challenges. Not by divining something the world has never seen, but by borrowing from yesterday’s solutions – often in the most unexpected ways.

Sam is Global Head of Behavioural Science at Ogilvy. His passion is understanding human behaviour, and his experience comes from organisational/industrial psychology and advertising strategy.

From New York to Nairobi, Sam has led behaviour change projects across virtually every category and continent. Today, he leads a global team of talented psychologists and behavioural economists to develop interventions and shape the communications of some of the world's most influential brands and organisations.

Links to some of the things we discussed on the episode:

To learn more about Sam’s book ‘Evolutionary Ideas’ which will be published in May 2022 - www.harriman-house.com/evolutionaryideas
To buy the book - https://linktr.ee/evolutionaryideas

To watch Sam’s presentation at Nudgestock 2021 about Evolutionary Ideas - https://youtu.be/7q6rfcRWf08

A presentation on Biomimicry at Nudgestock 2018 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TTpgEwgUS4

An introduction to TRIZ, a Theory of Inventive Problem Solving - https://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newCT_92.htm

An explanation for Sam's reference to singer Ronan Keating - https://youtu.be/IobNcpiwpSc

To hear Ogilvy Vice Chairman (the founder of the team Sam leads) Rory Sutherland’s appearances on this show:
Rory on Compliance - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-on-compliance/
Rory & Gerald Ashley on Networks - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/rory-sutherland-gerald-ashley/
Rory & Gerald on Prosilience - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gerald-ashley-rory-sutherland/

How do we measure the effectiveness of Compliance programs? It sounds like a simple question, but it is actually hard to answer. And it's not just a challenge facing Compliance Officers.

If you work in Ethics, Risk or even as a Regulator, you'll recognise the dynamic. You've probably either been asked to demonstrate the effectiveness of your program or had questions asked about your budget or resources. And usually, that's not because they want to give you more.

It's equally possible that you might have wondered how good a job you're doing. I know I did when working as a Regulator and as a Compliance Officer.

Now, whatever the reason for the question, it's not an easy one to answer. Because part of it involves proving a negative, you can easily show that you've helped make good things happen, but it's much harder to demonstrate that you've stopped bad things. This is why we often turn to input metrics like 'number of hours of training delivered' or the number of times we executed a particular control. That's interesting, but it doesn't tell you how effective the outcome is. Or isn't. Just because someone has been on a course, and done a little exam, doesn't mean the risk the training is designed to mitigate has been reduced.

So how can we best do that? That's what my two guests on this episode were interested in. One of them, Professor Benjamin Van Rooij, has been on the show four times — links to his previous appearances are below. The other, Professor Melissa Rorie, is making her debut. Together, they've edited a book called Measuring Compliance: Assessing Corporate Crime and Misconduct Prevention which contains chapters written by several eminent experts. Contributors to the book Todd Haugh, Ricardo Pelafone & Florentin Blanc have also previously been guests on the show. There are links to those episodes below.

If you work in a function whose role is to mitigate Human Risk, feel free to substitute the word Compliance for whatever you're responsible for ——–— because it's still relevant — then what Melissa and Benjamin have to say will be of interest.

Because if you don't know how to measure the success of what you do, then there's even less chance that anyone else — say someone who sets your budget, someone who is trying to assess the quality of your program or someone who determines your compensation — will be able to.

To find out more about the book: https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/measuring-compliance/5C1378AB4F9814D0C41198AEF9A5B6D2

For more on Melissa & her research: https://www.unlv.edu/people/melissa-rorie-phd

For more on Benjamin & his research:
https://www.uva.nl/en/profile/r/o/b.vanrooij/b.vanrooij.html

In our discussion, we talk about:

Hui Chen & her work at the DOJ: https://huichenethics.com/about/
Ricardo Pellafone & his work at Broadcat: https://www.thebroadcat.com/ricardo-pellafone
Florentin Blanc & his work at the OECD: https://oecd-events.org/digital-security-for-prosperity/speaker/f46fd492-79c3-eb11-94b3-000d3a219024
Rita Faria's book (co-authored with Olga Petintseva & Yarin Eski) called Interviewing Elites, Experts and the Powerful in Criminology https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-030-33000-2
The research on signing at the top of documents to encourage honesty https://www.wired.com/2012/08/signature-honesty/ & the recent findings that it failed to replicate: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1911695117
The story of Abraham Wald: https://www.rigb.org/explore-science/explore/blog/how-not-be-wrong#:
Professor JS Nelson on Workplace Surveillance https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3504408

Previous episodes featuring contributors to the book

Benjamin Van Rooij on COVID Compliance - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-benjamin-van-rooij-on-1/

Benjamin on The Behavioural Code - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-benjamin-van-rooij-on/

Benajmiong & Dany Sokol on Compliance 2.0 - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professors-benjamin-van-rooij/

Ricardo Pellafone on Behavioural Design in Compliance - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/ricardo-pellafone-on-why-compliance/

Ricardo Pellafone on the challenges facing Risk & Compliance under COVID - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/ricardo-pellafone-on-the-challenges/

Florentin Blanc on Regulatory Responses to COVID 19
https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/florentin-blanc-on-regulatory-responses/

Dr Todd Haugh on Behavioural Aspects of Ethics & Compliance https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-todd-haugh-on-the/

Ever had a terrible customer experience? Of course, you have. They’re very common. But why? My guest Michael Bartlett has just written a book on the dark side of customer experience - in other words, the processes that companies engage in that irritate the hell out of us.

The purpose of Michael’s book isn’t — you’ll be pleased to hear – to help companies make their processes more irritating. Rather it's to help them identify when they might inadvertently do things that will turn otherwise loyal customers into people haters. Not only does he shine a light on practices that make this happen, but he also proposes some solutions for how to avoid them happening in the first place.

Even if you’re not in the business of managing frontline customer services, what Michael highlights is of interest, because it can help you to understand why certain things are really irritating. And, if you work in a function like Compliance, Ethics, Information Security or HR that designs processes for employees, then what applies in a customer service context, also applies in your world.

You can connect with Michael here:https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelbartlettccxp/

You’ll find Michael’s book The Dark Side of CX here: https://www.amazon.com/Dark-Side-CX-patterns-customers-ebook/dp/B09T2B9LR9

In our discussion, we explore:
The ADKAR change management model https://www.knowledgetrain.co.uk/change-management/change-management-courses/change-management-models/adkar

Jeanne Bliss on Chief Customer Officer 2.0m - https://www.wiley.com/en-gb/Chief+Customer+Officer+2+0%3A+How+to+Build+Your+Customer+Driven+Growth+Engine-p-9781119047643

Joe Wheeler on Managing the Customer Experience: Turning Customers Into Advocates: https://www.pearson.com/uk/educators/higher-education-educators/program/Smith-Managing-the-Customer-Experience-Turning-customers-into-advocates/PGM571623.htm

To hear the podcast episodes I mention featuring:
(i) Roger Dooley on Friction - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-roger-dooley-on-friction/

(ii) Professor Camilla Andersen on Comic Book Contracts - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-camilla-andersen-on-comicbook-contracts/

Why might an innocuous-sounding word we all use, result in a social injustice? The answer is: when that word is ‘accident’. It’s something we hear all the time. “Sorry, it was just an accident” or “there’s been a traffic accident’.

But have you ever stopped to think about the impact the word has? I hadn’t until I read the book by my guest journalist Jessie Singer. In ‘There Are No Accidents’, she explains that the vast majority of mishaps are not random but predictable and preventable. What’s more, the term “accident” also changes how we look at things that go wrong. Perhaps surprisingly, the word protects those in power and leaves the most vulnerable in harm’s way, preventing investigations, pushing off debts, blaming the victims, diluting anger, and even sparking empathy for the perpetrators.


During our discussion, Jessie explains how the death of a close friend prompted her to write the book and what she’s learned from studying a wide range of accidents and why we need to think differently about accidents if we want to save lives and build a more just society.

To find out more about Jessie’s book There Are No Accidents: The Deadly Rise of Injury and Disaster — Who Profits and Who Pays the Price visit https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/There-Are-No-Accidents/Jessie-Singer/9781982129668

To find out more about Jessie, visit her website - http://jessiesinger.com/

During our discussion, we talk about:

The concepts of Jay Driving — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay-driver and the more common Jay Walking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaywalking

Hugh Dehaven, the pilot who pioneered crash injury research - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_DeHaven

The Grenfell Tower Fire — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire

Grenfell was also covered in an episode of this show, in a two-part discussion with Gill Kernick. Find part one here: 👉 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gill-kernick-on-the-grenfell-tower-disaster-part-one/

Grenfell also features on this show, in a two-part discussion with Gill Kernick. Part One here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gill-kernick-on-the-grenfell-tower-disaster-part-one/

The Electric Hummer - https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39270970/hummer-ev-proves-were-making-all-the-same-mistakes-again/

Why might insubordination be a good thing? Normally when we use that word, it’s seen as a negative. 
But there’s an alternative interpretation, where insubordination is seen as a positive, constructive challenge to traditional orthodoxy. For ideas to evolve and societies to progress — in other words, if we want to mitigate human risk - we need to cultivate rebels who are committed to challenging conventional wisdom and improving on it. 

But change is never easy. And it's not easy being a rebel. Particularly if you don’t have the skills to overcome hostile audiences who cling desperately to the way things are. Which is where my guest comes in.

He’s Todd Kashdan, Professor of psychology and director of the Well-Being Laboratory at George Mason University in Virginia. Todd’s research explores why people suffer, with an emphasis on the transition from normal to pathological anxiety.

Todd has just written a book called ‘The Art of Insubordination: how to dissent and defy effectively’, which provides a toolkit for constructive insubordination.

When I first came across Todd’s book — with huge thanks to friend of the show, Dr Zoe Chance — It’s incredible. It’s a book I wished I’d read decades ago and one I’m nos repeatedly dipping into as I work on delivering my human risk mission of bringing behavioural science to ethics & compliance.

In our discussion, we explore what prompted Todd to write the book, why insubordination can be a good thing, what the obstacles are to being insubordinate and what we can all do to bring more insubordination into our lives.

Some of the things we discuss on the show:

Todd and his research: https://toddkashdan.com/

The Art of Insubordination: how to dissent & defy effectively - https://toddkashdan.com/the-art-of-insubordination/

Serge Muscovici - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serge_Moscovici

Dr Zoe Chance & her book ‘Influence Is Your Superpower’ - https://www.zoechance.com/
Hear Zoe on this show here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-zoe-chance-on-influence/

Professor Vanessa Bohns & her book ‘You Have More Influence Than You Think’ - https://www.vanessabohns.com/
Hear Vanessa on this show here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-vanessa-bohns-on-influence/

David Foster Wallace & his novel Infinite Jest - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_Jest

L’esprit de l’escalier, the idea that we always think of the perfect answer after the event - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27esprit_de_l%27escalier

What should you listen to when you’ve heard the entire Human Risk podcast back catalogue? I'm glad you asked. Because one of the aims of the show is to explore ideas, stories and people that can help to inspire us to think differently about human risk. And that includes pointing you in the direction of other content producers who have interesting things to say.

On this special episode, I’m introducing a fellow podcaster who produces content that I think you’ll find interesting. Daniel Ross is the host of A Load of BS. The BS, of course, stands for Behavioural Science.

Like this podcast, A Load of BS is a series of discussions with a wide range of people which seeks the answer as to why we do what we do and what can be done to influence that for good outcomes.

Rather than just recommending you subscribe to Daniel’s show and newsletter, I thought I'd invite him into the studio for a chat. So, on this episode, I’m taking all things BS with Daniel Ross.

You’ll find Daniel’s newsletter here: https://aloadofbs.substack.com/

His show is available on all the major platforms, here's the link to the Apple Podcast feed: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/a-load-of-bs-the-behavioural-science/id1575240086

Why should businesses get involved in politics? Traditionally companies have tried to avoid getting involved in political issues, because remaining apolitical, means you avoid offending anyone. But in the 21st century, there is an increasing expectation that companies will take a position.


As we’ve seen with the invasion of Ukraine, businesses have been taking steps to engage with the public mood. Some have ceased doing business in or with Russia or Russian clients, others have provided humanitarian support to refugees or practical help to the Ukrainian government.

So what’s happening and how can companies navigate those challenges.
That’s what my guest Dr Joe Zammit Lucia has just written a book about.

In The New Political Capitalism: How Business and Societies Can Thrive in a Deeply Politicized World, Joe explores how modern businesses need to reflect the social values and cultural trends which shape the environment in which businesses operate and how an incredibly politicised set of stakeholders — from customers to employees and investors — are expecting companies to have a perspective on political issues.

In our discussion, Joe explains to me why companies should and need to get involved in political issues and what that means for the way they’re run.

We recorded this before the invasion of Ukraine took place, which is why there’s no reference to it in our conversation.

To find out more about Joe’s book The New Political Capitalism visit: https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/new-political-capitalism-9781472990198/

You can read more about him here: https://radixuk.org/executiveboard/joe-zammit-lucia/

You can also follow Joe on Twitter: https://twitter.com/joezl

To hear the episode of this show featuring Béatrice Otto on the role of the Fool — https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/beatrice-otto-on-fools/

What drives people to follow careers that involve dangerous activities like skydiving & stunts? My guest is Nicole Smith-Ludvik, a professional skydiver and stuntwoman. Last year, Nicole starred in two incredible advertisements for Emirates, the Dubai based airline which featured Nicole standing on the top of the world’s tallest building, the Burj Khalifa.

If you haven’t seen the advertisements — and I recommend watching them before you listen to the show — then you can watch them here:

Original ad from June 2021- https://youtu.be/uQHhYRuaEtM

The second ad featuring the Airbus A380 from January 2022 - https://youtu.be/fbL9QdWWJzo

Behind The Scenes of the Original ad - https://youtu.be/HagU3vUp0Ck

Behdin The Scenes of the Second ad - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAR1j6UfoG0

What I find fascinating about Nicole is that she’s chosen a carer that involves taking real risk. Many of us talk about risk, but she actually runs genuine risk. And yet, as you’ll hear, she thinks very carefully about how she manages it.

In our discussion, I learn how Nicole came to be interested in sky diving, how she thinks about risk, what she does to manage it, and what appeals to her about a carer that involves jumping out of planes. Of course, we explore the Emirates ads and I learn how they came about, what went into filming them and — world exclusive here – what Nicole would love to do if they ever film a third one.

To read more about Nicole and her career:
https://www.khaleejtimes.com/lifestyle/a-widow-at-25-to-surviving-a-critical-accident-how-nicole-smith-ludvik-made-it-to-the-top-of-the-b

https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/middle-east/who-is-nicole-smith-ludvik-know-the-woman-who-stood-on-top-of-burj-khalifa-in-emirates-ad.html

My thanks to Emirates for giving permission for Nicole to appear and to Dr Roger Miles for the idea of inviting her on.


You can hear Roger’s previous appearances on the show here:
https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/dr-roger-miles-on-conduct/
https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/human-risk-webinar-recording-conduct/

Why would a bicycle delivery company ban its riders from wearing helmets? Depending on where you're reading this, you'll either think it's normal — hello, for example, to my Netherland's based listeners 🇳🇱 — or irresponsible. On this episode, I'm speaking to Ben Knowles, the CEO of PedalMe who is the man behind the company that made that decision.

I'd heard of PedalMe, but not their policy. That changed, when they posted a thread on Social Media explaining the rationale behind it. Not only did they say why, but they posted details fo their risk management framework. It contained some fascinating insights and ideas.

I wrote a LinkedIn blog on the subject, that sparked a lot of interest. You can read that — and watch a clip of Ben on a UK TV show discussing the subject — and see the debate it sparked here: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/humanrisk_ethics-compliance-behaviouralscience-activity-6897141777678041088-CKwL

Given the level of interest, I thought I'd ask Ben onto the show and he agreed. So, in this special episode — special because I'm getting it out between teh normal schedule to encourage further discussion — I talk to Ben. We explore:
- how Ben got into cycling & promoting cycling
- where the idea for PedalMe came from and how they think about risk
- why banning helmets is part of their attempt to reduce risk compensation
- how they incentivise staff to report incidents
- their leadership model

and a whole lot more.

To learn more about Pedal Me visit https://pedalme.co.uk/

You'll find them on social media:
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/pedalmeapp/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/pedalmeapp

To find Ben:
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-knowles-49137748/

How can organisations get the best out of the humans they employ and empower them to help deliver desired outcomes? The answer is by focusing on the decisions taken that are critical in determining whether or not the right outcome is achieved.
 
On this episode, I speak to Sarah Abramson, Head of Marketing at Acteon, a communication and learning agency in Cambridge, UK. 
 
I came across Acteon last year after they approached me to be the keynote speaker at their annual event called, appropriately enough, Speak To The Human.    
 
I had such a brilliant time and met so many amazing people — some of whom have been guests on the show, links below —  that not only did I do what keynote speakers hardly ever do and stick around for the rest of the day after I’d done my presentation, but I’m also going back to this year’s event as an attendee.
 
It’s taking place this week, and since Speak To The Human is a very small invite-only event, you can’t buy tickets, and it isn’t recorded or streamed, I thought I’d ask Sarah, as event organizer, to join me on a special episode of this show to share some of the magic that grabbed my attention.
 
In our discussion, we talk about the event, how Sarah goes about curating it and some of the unusual elements she incorporates to make it less a conference and more of a gathering of itnersting people.   What she has to say is a fascinating blueprint for thinking about live events in a post-pandemic world.
 
Before we get to that, Sarah talks about Acteon's work — you’ll hear some fascinating case studies of human risk-related problems being solved creatively.   She tells me about the importance of understanding human behaviour — not the theory of what people should do, but the realities of what they actually do — how storytelling can help effective communication and how to create belonging and connection within organisations. 
 
And we hear about Sarah’s passion for marathon running and coaching, exploring the parallels between athletic training that seeks to get teh best out of individual runners and getting the best of of employees at work


Key Topics:

• Introduction to Sarah Abramson and Acteon [00:00:00]
  • Sarah’s role at Acteon and her background in marketing communications.
  • Overview of Acteon’s work in communication and learning.
    
    
• Translating Strategy into Actions [00:02:00]
  • The challenge of making boardroom strategies actionable for employees.
  • Examples of how Acteon supports clients in implementing strategies.
    
    
• Moments that Matter [00:04:00]
  • Identifying critical actions that significantly impact strategic success.
  • Case study on health and safety compliance in care homes.
    
    
• Building a Positive Remote Work Culture [00:05:00]
  • Strategies for maintaining company culture in a hybrid work environment.
  • The importance of inclusive and high-quality hybrid meetings.
    
    
• Behavioural Science Framework: COM-B [00:07:00]
  • Explanation of the COM-B model: Capability, Motivation, and Opportunity.
  • How Acteon uses this model to influence employee behaviour.
    
    
• Storytelling in Communication [00:26:00]
  • The power of storytelling to engage and influence employees.
  • Examples of effective storytelling in corporate settings.
    
    
• Sarah’s Experience in Marathon Running and Coaching [00:45:00]
  • Insights from Sarah’s dual role as a marathon runner and coach.
  • Parallels between athletic training and corporate behaviour.
    
    
• Parental Insights into Human Behaviour [00:34:00]
  • How parenting skills translate into professional skills.
  • The value of understanding human behaviour through parenting experiences.
    
    
• Speak to the Human Event [01:00:00]
  • Overview of Acteon’s annual event focusing on human connection.
  • Themes and unique elements of the event include music and magic.

Links to Relevant Resources:

• Acteon Communications
  
  
• Sarah on LinkedIn
  
  
• The COM-B Model
  
  
• Steve Peters’ "The Chimp Paradox"
  
  
• Daniel Kahneman’s "Thinking, Fast and Slow"
  
  
• Speak to the Human 2024
  
  
• The Speak to the Human podcast featuring an episode with a guest you might recognise.

Previous episodes of this show featuring people I met at last year's Speak To The Human:

Hannah Williams on The Art of Live Scribing: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/hannah-williams-on-the-art-of-live-scribing/ 

Heather Urquhart on Improvisation two-part special: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/heather-urquhart-on-improvisation-part-one/

Why is something that happened in Iceland in 2008 still of relevance today? The answer is revealed by my guest Jared Bibler. He's the author of a book called 'Iceland's Secret: The Untold Story of the World's Biggest Con'.

Having started his career working for a Wall Street Bank, Jared moved to Iceland in 2004, supporting the Icelandic pension funds' foreign investments. He resigned from his job at a leading Icelandic bank days before the 2008 Icelandic financial crisis and was subsequently hired to head a special investigation team at the Icelandic markets regulator. Jared and his team referred more than 30 criminal cases to the Special Prosecutor of Iceland, including the largest stock market manipulation cases to be prosecuted globally.

In our discussion, we talk about Jared's career and what he learned while working on both sides of the regulatory fence. This is a tale of Human Risk on an epic scale — I thought I knew a lot about the Icelandic story, but what Jared reveals in his book is mindblowing!

We also discuss Jared's motivation in writing the book and the response he's had both in Iceland and elsewhere. As you'll discover, there are many parallels between what happened in Iceland in 2008 and what is going on in other contexts today.

For more on Jared and his book, visit https://icelandssecret.com/

To learn about Iceland's history - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Iceland

Mount Ejsa which dominates Reykjavik - https://visitreykjavik.is/city-areas/mosfellsbaer/mount-esja#

The collapse of Lehman Brothers - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankruptcy_of_Lehman_Brothers

Bethany Maclean, the reporter who broke the Enron story - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethany_McLean

Jolabokaflod the Icelandic tradition of giving books for Christmas - https://www.countryliving.com/life/a46204/jolabokaflod-iceland-christmas-reading-tradition/

Jared's webinar with Transparency International (in Icelandic) - https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?ref=watch_permalink&v=434772941474117

Russell Napier - https://russellnapier.co.uk/

How can comic books reduce human risk? We've all seen airline safety cards that use imagery to communicate complex messages in a simple to understand way. So why couldn't we use that same logic for legal contracts? That's what my guest Professor Camilla Andersen, set out to discover when she stumbled across the idea during a conversation with a colleague.

That led to the creation of Comic Book Contracts (CBCs). In our discussion, Camilla talks to me about the genesis of the idea and how CBCs are being and could be used. We also explore some of the unexpected benefits of this concept and how it doesn't just help people who aren't legal professionals. Surprisingly, it also has an impact on corporate culture.

Listener Warning: the episode contains adult language.

To find out more about Comic Book Contracts & see some examples visit the CBC website: https://www.comicbookcontracts.com/

For more on Camilla and her work at the University of Western Australia visit: https://research-repository.uwa.edu.au/en/persons/camilla-andersen

To learn about Alternative Contracting, the business run by Camilla's husband that provides practical support in implementing the Comic Book Contracts: https://www.alternativecontracting.biz/

Links to some of the other topics we discuss:

Relational Contracting - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relational_contract

The Aurecon Visual Employment Contract - https://www.comicbookcontracts.com/aurecon-contract

BankWest's Banking With Less BS - https://www.bankwest.com.au/about-us/bank-less

How can we become more influential?

That’s a question that fascinates my guest on this episode, Dr Zoe Chance. She teaches a course on it at Yale and has just published a new book called Influence Is Your Superpower: The Science of Winning Hearts, Sparking Change, and Making Good Things Happen. 

In our discussion, we explore the simple ways in which we can all be more influential and how that can help us to fulfil our potential.

To learn more about Zoe visit her website: https://www.zoechance.com/

You’ll find Zoe on Twitter: https://twitter.com/zoebchance?s=20

For more on Influence Is Your Superpower: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/603636/influence-is-your-superpower-by-zoe-chance/

If you haven’t heard the previous episode of the show featuring Professor Vanessa Bohns, then do listen to that here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/professor-vanessa-bohns-on-influence/

Some of the other things we discuss during the show:

Influence by Dr Robert Cialdini - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28815.Influence

Predictably Irrational by Professor Dan Ariely - https://danariely.com/books/predictably-irrational/

Restauranteur Danny Meyer at Yale - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN0afaCP-rA

The Game by Neil Strauss - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/900.The_Game

Former US President Jimmy Carter - https://www.cartercenter.org/about/experts/jimmy_carter.html

Two articles on poster Prince & his charisma - https://www.forbes.com/sites/ruthblatt/2013/05/28/improve-your-charisma-and-how-prince-did-it/

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/how-princes-charisma-helped-him-7814476

Former US President Bill Clinton - https://www.clintonlibrary.gov/

The Secret Life of Pronouns by James Pennebaker - https://www.secretlifeofpronouns.com/

Thinking Fast & Slow by Professor Daniel Kahneman - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11468377-thinking-fast-and-slow

Explanation of Systems One & Two - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow

Jonathan Haidt’s Elephant & Rider analogy - https://www.creativehuddle.co.uk/post/the-elephant-and-the-rider

Zoe’s tweet on why she doesn’t use the Elephant & Rider - https://twitter.com/zoebchance/status/1099743978868654081

Jessica Calarco’s research on kids asking for help - https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0003122411427177

Illusionist Derren Brown - https://derrenbrown.co.uk/

A video on the paperclip challenge introduced by Zoe - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEmNmMpBJN0

The Luck Factor by Richard Wiseman - https://richardwiseman.wordpress.com/books/

Apple CEO Tim Cook - https://www.apple.com/uk/leadership/tim-cook/

Former US President Barack Obama - https://barackobama.com/

This episode is the second part of my discussion with Gill Kernick about the Grenfell Tower Disaster and the broader lessons we can draw from it.

In the previous episode, Gill and I talked about Grenfell. I recommend listening to that before listening to this one. You'll find it here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/gill-kernick-on-the-grenfell-tower-disaster-part-one/

Using historical examples like the 17th century Great Fire of London and a fire in the late 1990s at a gas plant in Australia, Gill illustrates that we didn't adequately learn many lessons from those incidents.

I wanted to explore Gill's more significant picture thinking - having looked at past examples relevant to Grenfell, what lessons has she learned about human behaviour?

Links to subjects we discuss:

Gill's website - https://grenfellenquirer.blog/

GIll's book - https://grenfellenquirer.blog/catastrophe-systemic-change-the-book/

The Great Fire of London - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Fire_of_London

What can we learn from the UK's largest residential fire since World War Two, in which 72 people died? The Grenfell Tower disaster happened in the Royal Borough of Kensington & Chelsea, one of London's wealthiest areas. As a result of catastrophic decision-making — both by those responsible for maintaining the building and those responding to the fire — what should have been a containable fire turned into a blazing inferno.

In this episode, I explore how those decisions were made and what we can learn from a human risk perspective. My guest, Gill Kernick, is a former resident of Grenfell Tower who works in high hazard industries to develop safety, leadership and culture. She's also the author of a book called Catastrophe and Systemic Change: Learning from the Grenfell Tower Fire and Other Disasters.

In this, the first of two parts, Gill and I discuss Grenfell and the human risk lessons that provides.

In Part Two, we talk about the other disasters she explores in her book and what we can learn from them.

Links to the topics we discuss:

Gill's website - https://grenfellenquirer.blog/

GIll's book - https://grenfellenquirer.blog/catastrophe-systemic-change-the-book/

The Grenfell Tower Fire Wikipedia entry - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire

A BBC explainer on Grenfell - https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40301289

The Piper Alpha Disaster - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piper_Alpha

ACM Cladding - https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/ACM_cladding

The Grenfell Tower Enquiry - https://www.grenfelltowerinquiry.org.uk/

The Lakanal House Fire - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakanal_House_fire

Conservative politician Jacob Rees-Mogg's comments on the Grenfell Tower residents' 'lacking common sense' in following the Fire Brigade's instructions - https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/special-shows/ring-rees-mogg/grenfell-survivors-demand-apology-jacob-rees-mogg/

UK Prime Minister Theresa May's reaction to Grenfell - https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-44440479

Opposition Leader Jeremy Corbyn's reaction to Grenfell - https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/he-leader-need-jeremy-corbyn-10629102

Deepwater Horizon - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepwater_Horizon_oil_spill

How did the Post Office deliver one of the biggest miscarriages of justice in British history?

My guest Nick Wallis, is a journalist and radio presenter who has written a book called The Great Post Office Scandal which explains how a billion pound IT system, unleashed an enormous legal, ethical and political scandal.

As Nick explains on the show, hundreds of sub-postmasters were alleged to have engaged in theft, false accounting and/or fraud and were taken to court by the Post Office. This resulted in criminal convictions, imprisonment, loss of reputation and livelihood, bankruptcy, divorce, and even suicide amongst those involved.

It subsequently transpired that it wasn’t people that were at fault, but rather the billion point IT system that the Post Office had installed as part of a modernisation program. In our discussion, we explore how the Scandal occurred, Nick’s experience in investigating it and what lessons we can learn.

This is a tale of appalling human decision-making with serious consequences. It’s about as human risk-relevant as it gets.

To learn more about the subjects we discussed on the show:

Nick’s website - https://www.nickwallis.com/

Nick’s book The Great Post Office Scandal - https://bathpublishing.com/products/the-great-post-office-scandal

The BBC Radio 4 podcast - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000jf7j

BBC Radio Surrey - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_surrey

The BBC Radio Surrey Twitter account - https://twitter.com/BBCSurrey

The Justice for Subpostmaster’s Alliance - https://www.jfsa.org.uk/

BBC TV’s Inside Out South program featuring Nick - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ2FLuFVGMg

The Wikipedia page for the Post Office Scandal with links to court hearings and other relevant documents - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Post_Office_scandal

Infected Blood Scandal - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contaminated_blood_scandal_in_the_United_Kingdom#Background

Windrush Scandal - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windrush_scandal

Hillsborough Disaster - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster

Professor Richard Morehead - https://socialsciences.exeter.ac.uk/law/staff/moorhead/

Darren Jones MP on Artificial Intelligence - https://thebristolcable.org/2018/06/artificial-intelligence-robots-and-the-future-of-society-interview-with-darren-jones/

The Horizon Scandal Fund - https://www.horizonscandalfund.org/

What does Sustainability have to do with Compliance?

On this episode, I’m speaking to a Compliance innovator that has combined both. Dr Sarah Tischler is Head of Compliance for NKG, the world’s largest coffee trading company. Since NKG is privately owned and isn’t operating in a regulated industry, on the face of it, they’re not the kind of company you might naturally expect to have a compliance function. And up until a few years ago, they didn’t. Until Sarah came along and persuaded them that they needed one and created a role for herself.

Not only has she built out her function, but she’s also added to her responsibilities by taking on responsibility for Sustainability under what they call their Responsible Business Program. Now, you may be wondering what a subject like sustainability has to do with compliance — which was my reaction when I first met Sarah and she told me what she did. But having heard her explanation it not only makes perfect sense, but it’s surprising that more firms haven’t adopted this approach.

In our discussion, we talk about how Sarah persuaded NKG to establish a Compliance function, what her approach to the role is, how Behavioural Science supports that and the rationale behind and practicalities of combining it with Sustainability.

Relevant links:

Professor Johan Lambsdorff - https://www.wiwi.uni-passau.de/wirtschaftstheorie/

NKG - https://www.nkg.de/

The German Supply Chain Due Diligence Act - https://www.bmas.de/EN/Services/Press/recent-publications/2021/act-on-corporate-due-diligence-in-supply-chains.html]

The World Economic Forum paper on the rise of Chief Integrity Officers - https://www.weforum.org/whitepapers/the-rise-and-role-of-the-chief-integrity-officer-leadership-imperatives-in-an-esg-driven-world

What is kindness and why does it matter? One of my New Year's resolutions for 2022 is to be kinder to others. So, in this episode, I'm learning more about what being kind means — spoiler alert, it doesn't mean always being nice — and why that matters.

My guest Sebastian Boo is a trainer, tutor and researcher at the London School of Economics and Political Science and the founder of Kindness Advantage Ltd, a company that brings kindness training to the workplace. So he knows what he's talking about when it comes to kindness. During our discussion, we explore what kindness is — in particular why it might not mean what we tend to think it means — why it matters and what we can practically do to be kinder.

Aside from having a fascinating conversation with Sebastian, the other reason for getting him onto the show is to publicise my resolution so there's hopefully more chance of me sticking to it. Let's see...

During our discussion we talk about:

Kindness Advantage https://kindness-advantage.com/

Kindness: A Pocket Guide https://kindness-advantage.com/the-book

Professor David Canter’s ( ) research on measuring kindness entitled ‘Development of a measure of kindness’ https://www.researchgate.net/publication/351889065_Development_of_a_measure_of_kindness

An interview with Professor Paul Bloom on his book Against Empathy: https://www.vox.com/conversations/2017/1/19/14266230/empathy-morality-ethics-psychology-compassion-paul-bloom


Against Empathy - https://www.google.com/books/edition/Against_Empathy/op67CwAAQBAJ?hl=en

The study undertaken at Coca Cola Span on acts of kindness called Everyday Prosociality in the Workplace: The Reinforcing Benefits of Giving, Getting and Glimpsing - https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317355148_Everyday_Prosociality_in_the_Workplace_The_Reinforcing_Benefits_of_Giving_Getting_and_Glimpsing


The Isle of Skye - https://www.isleofskye.com/

Why do we live in such a polarised world and what can we do to minimise the dynamic?

On this episode, I’m joined by Alex Chesterfield and Ali Goldsworthy, two of the co-authors of a book called Poles Apart - Why People Turn Against Each Other and How To Bring Them Together. They’re also two of the co-hosts of the Changed My Mind podcast that talks to people who have changed their minds on big issues.

Alex Chesterfield is a behavioural scientist with a master's degree in Cognitive and Decision Science. Forever curious about why we do what we do, she currently works in financial services, leading a team of behavioural scientists to help get better outcomes for employees and customers. For four years, she was an elected Councillor in Guildford for the Conservative Party. She has personally experienced the effects of affective polarisation, both in and out of the workplace. She has been on the show before & you can hear that episode here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/alex-chesterfield-on-behavioural-regulation/

Ali Goldsworthy has been a political adviser and campaigner for more than twenty years. A former Deputy Chair of the Liberal Democrats, she led the team that built the fastest-growing campaigning organisation in the UK. In 2017 she was a Sloan Fellow at Stanford, co-creating its first depolarisation course. A board member of the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust, Alison has won numerous awards for her work. She has written for the Telegraph, Independent, New Statesman, The Times and Financial Times.

In the episode, we talk about the genesis of the podcast and the book and what Alex and Ali have learned from writing it. We also explore some of the key dynamics that drive polarisation, including social media, and the techniques we can all deploy to minimise it in our lives and in society.

Poles Apart book - https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/111/1119814/poles-apart/9781847942951.html

For more on the Changed My Mind Podcast visit — https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/author/the-depolarization-project/

The specific episodes we referred to:

Derek Black on why he left the White Nationalist movement — https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/leaving-white-nationalist-movement-with-derek-black/

Ayman Diem on why he switched from being an Al Qaeda bombmaker to an MI6 spy — https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/podcasts/podcast-changed-my-mind/changed-my-mind-al-qaeda-bombmaker-mi6-spy/

Cass Sunstein on why he changed his mind about the stability of US democracy — https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/podcasts/podcast-changed-my-mind/changed-my-mind-american-democracy-cass-sunstein/

We also discussed:

LBC Radio presenter James O’Brien — https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/
Twitter — https://twitter.com/mrjamesob?

James’ Full Disclosure podcast — https://www.globalplayer.com/podcasts/42KqCF/

‘Gamergate’ on Reddit — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_(harassment_campaign)

Psychologist Milton Lodge — https://www.stonybrook.edu/commcms/polisci/people/_faculty/Lodge_Milton.php

Dan Kahan — https://law.yale.edu/dan-m-kahan

Jonathan Haidt — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Haidt

Chantal Mouffe — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chantal_Mouffe
Agonism — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agonism

Ian Leslie’s book Conflicted — http://ian-leslie.com/conflicted/

Amy Edmondson on Psychological Safety — https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/profile.aspx?facId=6451

The online course (MOOC) in association with Cambridge University — https://www.edx.org/course/polarisation?

What do fools have to do with managing human risk? On the face of it, they’re likely to be a driver, rather than a solution. But when we use the term to describe in the context of court jesters, then the answer might be very different.

As my guest on this episode, Béatrice Otto, helps me to understand. She’s the author of a book called Fools Are Everywhere: The Court Jester Around The World, which explores the history of the role. I’m fascinated by this from a human risk perspective because the comedy deployed by jesters provided them with a very effective vehicle for highlighting flaws in human decision-making. By permitting the jester to make jokes about what they had observed, the monarch or emperor would receive feedback they wouldn’t get from elsewhere.

In our wide-ranging discussion, we explore the role of the fool, how they came to be appointed, the limits of what they could say and some of the cunning techniques they deployed to get their point across. Béatrice explains how the role came about, why the fool no longer exists and why perhaps it should.

My thanks to my former colleague and regular listener to the show, Simon Rogerson, who first pointed out to me the relevance of court jesters to risk management.

To find out more about the issues we discuss on the show:
The book Fools Are Everywhere - https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/F/bo3615397.html

Béatrice’s website - https://www.foolsareeverywhere.com/

To sign up for her newsletter - https://www.foolsareeverywhere.com/

The job description for corporate fools - https://www.foolsareeverywhere.com/blog-fools-job-description/


If you missed the previous episodes featuring comedian and impressionist Josh Berry:
Part One - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/josh-berry-on-comedy-satire-impressions-part-one/
Part Two - https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/josh-berry-on-comedy-satire-impressions-part-two/

What might the future of society look like & how can we get there?

On this episode, I’m speaking to a best-selling author who has written an extraordinary book about her vision for the future.
 
Unusually, the book is a work of fiction for the show, but the issues it addresses are very relevant to Human Risk.
 
My guest is Manda Scott, who began her career as a veterinary surgeon and is now an award-winning writer and podcaster.
 
Her new book, Any Human Power, has the subtext Dream deeply. Rise up strong. Change is coming and is centred around a protagonist named Lan, a woman on her deathbed who makes a promise to her grandson, Finn. Realising he is struggling with the idea of living in a world without her, she vows to be there for him even after her death. As she passes away, she steps into a shamanic realm known as the void, where she learns to navigate and influence the timelines of the future.
 
Lan's journey is marked by her attempts to keep her promise to Finn, acting from beyond the grave to guide and protect him. The narrative explores the complex interplay between life and death, human connection, and the power of shamanic practices. Lan discovers that she can impact the physical world through the digital realm, using online gaming to connect with Finn and help him in his moments of need.

During our discussion; we explore Manda’s career, what drives her writing and the topics she explores in Any Human Power.
 
Links to relevant topics

Manda’s author’s website: https://mandascott.co.uk/

Her podcast ‘Accidental Gods’: https://accidentalgods.life/

Bayo Akomolafe - The Time's Are Urgent — Let's Slow Down:
https://www.bayoakomolafe.net/post/the-times-are-urgent-lets-slow-down


Francis Weller on the Trauma Culture vs Initiation Culture: https://medium.com/best-of-kosmos-journal/deschooling-dialogues-on-initiation-trauma-and-ritual-with-francis-weller-3f360fe26563
 
The evolution of Audrey Tang https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/27/taiwan-civic-hackers-polis-consensus-social-media-platform
 
How Audrey’s Tang crowdsourced government  https://www.globalgovernmentforum.com/the-wisdom-of-crowds-an-interview-with-taiwans-unorthodox-digital-minister/

Wealth Supremacy by Marjorie Kelly https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/wealth-supremacy-how-the-extractive-economy-and-the-biased-rules-of-capitalism-drive-today-s-crises-marjorie-kelly/7452410?ean=9781523004775
 
The ‘Bankless’ podcast with Eliezer Yudkowsky  http://podcast.banklesshq.com/159-were-all-gonna-die-with-eliezer-yudkowsky
 
Riversimple Future Guardian Governance model  https://www.riversimple.com/governance/
 
Timestamp Highlights (AI generated)
[00:00:00] - Introduction

• Christian Hunt introduces Manda Scott and her background.

[00:01:00] - Manda's Journey

• Manda talks about her background in Scotland, starting as a veterinary surgeon, and transitioning to a novelist and podcaster.
  
  
• She highlights her work in intensive care for neonatal horses and her academic journey.

[00:02:00] - Transition to Writing and Podcasting

• Manda discusses her decision to leave academia and pursue writing.
  
  
• She explains the impact of her master's in regenerative economics on her career shift.

[00:03:00] - Regenerative Economics and Shamanic Dreaming

• Manda explains how her studies and shamanic dreaming influence her work and perspectives.
  
  
• Introduction to the concept of "Accidental Gods" podcast and its goals.

[00:04:00] - The Need for Systemic Change

• Discussion on the necessity for total systemic change and evolving human consciousness.
  
  
• Manda emphasizes changing our value set to create a thriving world.

[00:06:00] - Shamanic Practice and Creative Process

• Manda elaborates on shamanic dreaming and its role in her creative process.
  
  
• She shares how visions and instructions guide her writing.

[00:14:00] - Writing Inspiration and Process

• Manda describes the inspiration behind her latest book and her unique writing process.
  
  
• She explains the metaphor of splitting timelines and the challenges of writing about the future.

[00:19:00] - Online Gaming and Human Connection

• Discussion on the role of online gaming in building human connections.
  
  
• Manda shares personal experiences and the positive aspects of gaming communities.

[00:26:00] - Technology as a Tool for Change

• Manda highlights Audrey Tang's work in Taiwan and the potential of technology for positive societal change.
  
  
• The importance of using technology to build bridges and foster consensus.

[00:34:00] - Capitalism and Value Systems

• Discussion on the destructive nature of capitalism and the need for new value systems.
  
  
• Manda explains the concept of "Wealth Supremacy" and systemic change.

[00:41:00] - Writing Through Topia

• Manda talks about the difficulty of writing a realistic path to a better future.
  
  
• The importance of creating stories that resonate with people's current experiences and aspirations.

[00:49:00] - Human Connection and Creativity

• Manda discusses the power of human connection and creativity in building a sustainable future.
  
  
• Emphasis on embracing technology while evolving beyond Palaeolithic emotions and medieval institutions.

[00:53:00] - Call to Action

• Manda's call to action for systemic change and building a future for future generations.
  
  
• Importance of storytelling and creative imagination in driving change.

[00:59:00] - Closing Thoughts

• Christian and Manda discuss the impact of her book and provide practical information for listeners.
  
  
• Final remarks on the importance of community, technology, and systemic change.

This episode is the second part of my discussion with comedian & impressionist Josh Berry. If you haven't yet listened to the first part, I recommend you do that, before listening to this.

You'll find Part One here: https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/josh-berry-on-comedy-satire-impressions-part-one/

In this episode, we discuss how Josh's interest in human decision-making drives his comedy and explore further aspects of his work. Links to specific topics we discuss are below.

To find out more about Josh, his Rafe Hubris diaries, his tour and his other work visit www.joshberryofficial.com.

To avoid missing out on his latest sketches, follow Josh on social media:
Twitter — https://twitter.com/JoshBerryComedy
Facebook — https://www.facebook.com/JoshBerryImpressions
Instagram — https://www.instagram.com/joshberrycomedy/
YouTube — https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLtucDoyC9QQyibS8BY3Vew

In this episode, we discuss:
- Adrian Mole, a fictional diariast - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Mole

- Four Lions, a satire by Chris Morris - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Lions

- Comedian Tommy Tiernan - https://www.tommedian.com/

- Dave LaChapelle's Netflix special. Watch a trailer here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1UEj_6T1RE. and the show here: https://www.netflix.com/title/81228510

- The tale of Sisyphus from Greek mythology - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus

- Comedian Michael Spicer - https://www.michaelspicer.co.uk/ and https://twitter.com/MrMichaelSpicer?s=20

- Comedian Sarah Cooper - https://thecooperreview.com/ and https://twitter.com/sarahcpr?s=20

- Fictional Reporter Jonathan Pie - https://www.jonathanpie.com/

- Comedian James Acaster - https://www.jamesacaster.com/

- Bob Mortimer's Train Guy - https://mashable.com/article/bob-mortimer-train-guy

- Psychologist Jordan Peterson - https://www.jordanbpeterson.com/

- Comedian Jimmy Carr - https://www.jimmycarr.com/

- Dave Chapelle's speech at the Mark Twain Prize - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwyeYmXjD1A

- Josh's Interview with UK newspaper The Daily Telegraph -https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/25/right-wingers-have-much-sense-humour-left/

- Former Leaders of the UK Labour Party
Jeremy Corbyn -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Corbyn
Ed Milliband - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Miliband

- Political commentator Owen Jones - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owen_Jones

- NASCAR driver Josh Berry - https://www.joshberryracing.com/

- My Amazon review for Staggering Hubris, Josh/Rafe's book - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/customer-reviews/R3T9LVQK15CB2Q/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1785633074

What can comedy teach us about human decision-making?

That’s something that my guest on this episode Josh Berry, knows all about. He’s a comedian, impressionist and satirist — though as you’ll hear on the episode, he’s not hugely keen on that third label. If there’s anyone that can help us to understand human risk, it’s someone who is really good at observing human behaviour and making us laugh about it.

I first discovered Josh last year, thanks to videos he released on social media which went viral. In them he plays, Rafe Hubris, a 25-year-old SPAD - short for SPecial ADviser — to the current UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson. The construct Josh uses for his Rafe videos is really simple. Something newsworthy — usually ridiculous — has happened in reality and Rafe is on the phone providing strategic and communications advice to whichever government minister has got themselves into trouble.

The comedy comes both from the storyline and Rafe as a character — the surname Hubris is very apt to describe the incredibly self-confident, posh, entitled Oxford graduate. We know he studied at Oxford because he never ceases to tell us. If you’ve never come across a Rafe, congratulations! — just imagine what a younger Boris Johnson must have been like.

Since releasing the videos, Josh has written & published Rafe’s 2020 diaries, and is in the middle of a UK tour. Our discussion went on so long, that there's a second episode coming very soon.

To find out more about the topics we discussed:

Josh’s website including details of Rafe’s diary and his tour: www.joshberryofficial.com

Josh on Social Media:
Twitter — https://twitter.com/JoshBerryComedy
Facebook — https://www.facebook.com/JoshBerryImpressions
Instagram — https://www.instagram.com/joshberrycomedy/
YouTube — https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLtucDoyC9QQyibS8BY3Vew

Mrs Doubtfire - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mrs._Doubtfire
Simon Lipson - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Lipson

Russell Brand - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Brand

Josh’s interview with Andy Murray - https://www.hellomagazine.com/celebrities/2017070340302/andy-murray-impressionist-funny-clip/

A clip from Rob & Romesh with Andy Murray - https://twitter.com/robandromeshvs/status/1413148366960164865?lang=en

The Michael Gove tweet that led to the creation of Rafe Hubris — https://twitter.com/michaelgove/status/1199304826468876288?

Alan Partridge - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Partridge

Jimmy Carr - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carr

Rafe’s Peppa Pig reference - https://twitter.com/JoshBerryComedy/status/1463203112076910596?s=20


Frankie Boyle - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankie_Boyle

Chris Morris - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Morris_(satirist)

How can we prevent people from falling over and injuring themselves? What sounds like a simple challenge, is actually a major issue. In a normal year, over 300,000 people in the UK alone have to go going to hospital after slipping on a surface. That equates to 1.5 million bed days and around a billion pounds, so 1.3 billion dollars of insurance claims.

My guest on this episode, Christian Harris, is the founder of Slip Safety, a company that specialises in helping prevent these kinds of accidents.

If that sounds like an unusual business model, you’re right. But as you’ll hear there’s a lot more complexity in what makes us fall over than you might think. If you want to solve the problem, then you need a specialist to help you do that.

The more I spoke to Christian about his business, the more I realised that what he does is highly relevant to human risk. Because it’s not just a case of telling people to take more care, though sometimes it clearly is the fault of the individual who fell. But equally, sometimes the environment has been poorly designed, making the chances of people falling over unnecessarily high. This is a case of human risk manifesting itself in the physical world.

In our discussion, Christian explains what inspired him to set up the company. We also explore the dynamics of falling and how technology can help prevent it. We look at how the idea of falling over being funny — think of cartoon characters throwing banana skins down to make their nemesis fall over or comedy YouTube videos of people falling over in the snow — poses challenges when you’re trying to manage what is a very dangerous risk. And we talk about the fact that logical approaches to managing this — signs that say things like slippery when wet, might actually be counter-productive. I also get some tips from him on how we can all make ourselves less likely to fall over

Christian not only shares some wonderful insights — and you’ll be amazed at how much more complex this subject is than you might initially think — but he’s also great company. So, please enjoy my discussion with Christian Harris on Slips, Falls and Accidents.

Links to issues we discuss:

Christian’s company Slip Safety - https://slipsafety.co.uk/

Chimes model - https://slipsafety.co.uk/chimes/

Co-op incident in Truro - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-39998209

Safety & Risk Success Podcast - https://anchor.fm/safetyrisksuccess

The episode on human risk - https://anchor.fm/safetyrisksuccess/episodes/Christian-Hunt-on-The-Human-Risk--behavioural-science-in-safety-e18sa2e

Christian’s profile on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/christian-harris-slip-safety/