Explorez tous les épisodes du podcast The Hidden Third

Jan Broberg was kidnapped at 12 by a family friend who convinced her it was an alien mission. Then kidnapped again at 14. Her story — the basis for Netflix's Abducted in Plain Sight — is one of the most shocking grooming cases ever documented. Today she tells it in her own words, and breaks down the predator tactics that are still happening — from family friends to online platforms like Roblox. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week on The Hidden Third, Mariana sits down with Coss Marte — a former drug dealer who, at 17, was running what he claims was New York City's first 24/7 drug delivery business, pulling in over $2 million. A betrayal within his own team brought it all crashing down, and he was suddenly facing up to 25 years in prison. Behind bars, a doctor told him he wouldn't survive to 30. What happened next changed everything. Coss lost 70 pounds, built a workout program with fellow inmates, and wrote the business plan for ConBody — a gym empire built on second chances. Then came the ultimate full-circle moment: he's back to selling drugs — this time legally. His cannabis dispensary ConBud now operates multiple locations across NYC, including one on the very corner of the Lower East Side where he once dealt illegally. From drug kingpin to CEO, this is one of the most remarkable reinvention stories you'll ever hear. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Eric Balliet spent 25 years with the Department of Homeland Security - first with the CBP and then with ICE - arresting dozens of human traffickers, smugglers, and child predators. He led the wiretap strategy that resulted in the arrest of Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzmán—not once, but twice—and was named Federal Law Enforcement Association's Agent of the Year. In this episode, we dive deep into: - His time as a border patrol agent  - His investigation into violent militia groups operating on the U.S.- Mexico border - The wiretap operations targeting the Sinaloa Cartel that led to El Chapo's arrest – twice - What it's really like hunting the world's most dangerous criminals - His warnings about Trump's immigration raids and excessive use of force by ICE - Why a massive ICE hiring surge has put untrained and unqualified agents on America's streets - How resources are being diverted from real homeland security threats  - Why he decided to speak out and how that has impacted his life This is a rare inside look at federal law enforcement from someone who isn't afraid to tell the truth about what's gone wrong. ABOUT THE HIDDEN THIRD: From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode, Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. THE HIDDEN THIRD: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoCiI8nJacn8gDiHxr6aQGA Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thehiddenthirdpodcast Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hidden-third/id1845989117 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3n1BBoj3BgVuEYaiZ6SotF MARIANA: TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mariana_vanzeller Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marianavz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Go to http://selectquote.com/mariana to save more than 50% on term life insurance. Go to http://rocketmoney.com/hiddenthird to reach your financial goals faster. In this episode, I sit down with MS NOW correspondent and bestselling author Jacob Soboroff for a candid conversation about what it takes to report on the stories that shape our country, and the personal cost that comes with it. Jacob shares why he became a journalist, the biggest lessons he's learned in the field, the toll his work has had on his family, and even some secrets he's never divulged publicly. We talk about his groundbreaking reporting on the Trump administration's family separation policy – what he saw firsthand inside migrant child detention facilities and what went into writing his book Separated. Jacob reveals what has stayed with him long after the headlines moved on, and warns that families are being separated at an even bigger scale during the current immigration raids. Then we dive into his latest bestseller Firestorm, his firsthand account of the devastating January 2025 Los Angeles wildfires. Jacob reported live as his childhood home in the Pacific Palisades burned to the ground. He describes these fires as "the fire of the future" – not an isolated tragedy but a harbinger of America's new age of disaster driven by climate change, failing infrastructure, and political dysfunction. If you care about journalism, immigration, climate disasters, and the human stories behind the headlines, this conversation goes deep. ABOUT THE HIDDEN THIRD: From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode, Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. THE HIDDEN THIRD: ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠ MARIANA: ⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Instagram Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of The Hidden Third, Mariana sits down with Arman, an underground hacker involved in the infamous Xbox Underground case -- an alleged conspiracy federal investigators said targeted Microsoft and its partners and was valued by the FBI at more than $100 million. Arman says he’s been hacking since he could type. Diagnosed with ADD, he found an early obsession and talent in computer programming, spending months in grade school learning how to break into systems most people didn’t even know existed. What started as a game quickly escalated: by fifth grade, he was hacking into his school’s mainframe, and soon after he claims he’d built a sprawling network of bots, giving him the power to control and monetize massive amounts of computing resources. As a teenager, Arman describes earning tens of thousands of dollars, funding his own operation, and even consulting at 14 or 15 years old. But the underground doesn’t just come with money and status. It comes with consequences. He recounts being swatted three times as a teen by rivals and enemies targeting him, and how the paranoia and cat-and-mouse dynamics of that world can follow you long after the hacks stop. (Yes, he even admits to doing things like cutting a teacher’s internet when he didn’t want to turn in homework.) Arman also tells Mariana about cooperating with the government as an informant, and what it’s like to move from “black hat” life into ethical hacking. This interview is for reporting and education. We do not encourage or provide instructions for hacking. About The Hidden Third: From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode, Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. THE HIDDEN THIRD: ⁠YouTube⁠ ⁠Instagram⁠ ⁠Apple Podcasts⁠ ⁠Spotify⁠ MARIANA: ⁠TikTok⁠ ⁠Instagram Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week on The Hidden Third, I sit down with Owen Hanson, known as “O-Dog” — a former USC athlete whose hunger to win at all costs spiraled into a criminal operation spanning sports betting, drug trafficking, and money laundering. Hanson’s story was recently featured in Mark Wahlberg’s docu-series Cocaine Quarterback. But this conversation goes deeper than the headlines. He tells me how it started with his own performance-enhancing drug use — and how, in his early twenties, it escalated into a high-stakes enterprise with international routes and ties to a major Mexican cartel. For a while, the operation felt untouchable. He lived in luxury, operated at the highest stakes, and wielded real power — until it all came crashing down. I wanted to understand how a decorated student-athlete became a drug kingpin, and what it’s like to rebuild after losing everything. In one of the most intense conversations I’ve had on the show, Hanson opens up about his upbringing, the illegal enterprise he built, his trips into Mexico’s cartel territory, life inside federal prison, and what comes next. About The Hidden Third: From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode, Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. THE HIDDEN THIRD: YouTube Instagram Apple Podcasts Spotify MARIANA: TikTok Instagram Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Go to http://rocketmoney.com/hiddenthird to reach your financial goals faster. This week on The Hidden Third, I speak to Anna Sorokin, better known as “Anna Delvey”, the infamous “fake heiress” whose real-life story was later dramatized in Netflix’s “Inventing Anna”. Anna posed as a wealthy German socialite, worked her way into New York’s elite circles, and used deception and manipulation to get banks, luxury hotels, and even friends to bankroll her lifestyle – a modern case study in scams, grifting, and image. She was convicted of theft of services and grand larceny and served time in prison, becoming one of the most recognizable names in high-society con artistry. Today, her notoriety has morphed into a new kind of power: Anna has become an influencer with a massive social media following, taking on paid promotional partnerships and selling some of the illustrations she made in prison for tens of thousands of dollars. I wanted to understand who she is - behind the con artist. But Anna rarely opens up about her past and often comes across as unrepentant and dismissive about the harm she caused. That guardedness made this one of the hardest interviews I’ve ever done. There were several moments I thought she would walk out. But in the end, through a game of cat-and-mouse, she shares some of her past thinking and strategies for conning people, what life was like in prison, the friends she made there, the marriage proposals she received, and her plans for what comes next. About The Hidden Third: From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode, Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. The Hidden Third Show Sponsors Go to ⁠http://rocketmoney.com/hiddenthird⁠ to reach your financial goals faster. THE HIDDEN THIRD: ⁠⁠YouTube ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram ⁠ ⁠Spotify⁠ ⁠ Apple Podcasts⁠ MARIANA: ⁠⁠YouTube TikTok ⁠Instagram Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Justin Paperny is a former stockbroker turned convicted felon. In this episode, he takes Mariana from the schemes that landed him in federal prison to how he now coaches white-collar criminals on surviving incarceration and rebuilding their lives. #38b54e70-3445-11f1-81fc-5777b6f0ba3e #423667 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Todd Thomas’s daughter was 12 when he discovered she was being groomed by a child predator. What he did next changed the course of his life. Mariana talks to Todd about the moment he found out, the choices he made, the failures that let this happen, and how he’s turned pain into purpose. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Go to http://expressvpn.com/hiddenthird to find out how you can get up to four extra months. At 21, Lisa Phillips was assaulted by Jeffrey Epstein, an ordeal that marked the start of years of grooming and manipulation. In this conversation with Mariana, she opens up about the trauma she endured, the system that enabled it, and her ongoing fight for justice. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Go to http://betterhelp.com/mariana for 10% off your first month. Aliia Roza says she was trained by Russian intelligence in “sexpionage” and later defected after falling in love with one of her targets. She shares her straight-out-of-Hollywood story with Mariana. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Rob Archuleta takes Mariana from his meth-fueled days in Las Vegas to the grueling yet rewarding crucible of Ironman, tracing why he quit drugs and how the scrappy running club he founded, Addict2Athlete, is transforming lives. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Marta Barreto survived years of sexual abuse, addiction, exploitation, and prison. She became a mother, got sober, went back to school, and eventually landed her childhood dream — working on rocket propulsion at Virgin Orbit. In this episode, Marta talks about the psychological grip of trauma and exploitation, the barriers that keep so many victims trapped, and what it really takes to rebuild a life from zero. One of the most powerful survival stories we've ever told on The Hidden Third. Head to http://factormeals.com/hiddenthird50off and use code hiddenthird50off to get 50% off and free breakfast for a year! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Go to http://betterhelp.com/mariana for 10% off your first month. At 23, Sequoyah Thiessen moved to L.A., believing the “Rehab Riviera” would help her kick opioids. Instead, she was pulled into the shadow economy of fraudulent rehab programs, where people in crisis are bought and sold on a multi-billion-dollar black market. She sits down with Mariana to talk about how this dangerous underworld works, who profits, and the way she turned her life around. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Days before reporting to prison, Mathew Bowyer, the bookie at the center of the Shohei Ohtani gambling scandal, sits down with Mariana to walk her through his illegal betting operation, why it collapsed, and what he believes Ohtani knew. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Go to http://betterhelp.com/mariana for 10% off your first month. Go to http://topodesigns.com and use code TOPOHIDDENTHIRD for 10% off your order. When Michael Santos was sentenced to 45 years in federal prison for cocaine trafficking, he turned a cell into a classroom, earning degrees, writing books, and, inspired by Frederick Douglass, becoming a leading voice for reform. He tells Mariana how the transformation happened, and what freedom looked like after decades behind bars. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

FBI veteran Kurt McKenzie joins Mariana for the inside story of Operation Oxy Alley- the takedown of what’s widely described as the largest pill-mill trafficking operation in U.S. history. Mariana recounts her own investigation and how it led to her being chased down I-95 by the brothers at the center of the case, and how it wasn’t the last McKenzie investigation she got pulled into. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Pro skater and actor Fabian Alomar takes Mariana from L.A.’s skate scene to years in a high-security prison, where survival meant being ready for anything - even stashing blades where the sun doesn’t shine. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. Launching October 15th! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Britt Elmore, former undercover narcotics detective, spent years embedded inside the operations most people only see in crime dramas — building cases against dealers, managing informants, and navigating the moral gray zones that define modern drug enforcement. In this episode, he pulls back the curtain on how undercover operations really work: the mechanics of infiltrating criminal networks, the fragile trust between officers and informants, and how drugs move from international suppliers all the way down to local street corners. He traces the full supply chain of the underground drug economy — and explains why it continues to evolve faster than law enforcement can keep up. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sonny Von Cleveland survived years of childhood sexual abuse, 18 years in prison, and 19 months in solitary confinement. But it was in that isolation cell where everything changed — through daily conversations with a Muslim mentor in the cell across from his, Sonny found accountability, forgiveness, and a reason to live differently. Today he mentors at-risk youth in juvenile detention centers across Southern California, serves on Riverside County's Juvenile Justice Coordinating Council, advocates with the Anti-Recidivism Coalition in Los Angeles, and leads The Von Cleveland Foundation. He was named Palm Springs Person of the Year in 2023 and has received Congressional Recognition for his work. His memoir Hey White Boy: Conversations of Redemption is the raw, unfiltered story of how a child failed by the world around him found his way back — and decided to make sure others don't walk the same road. 🔔 Subscribe for new episodes every week THE HIDDEN THIRD: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoCiI8nJacn8gDiHxr6aQGA Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thehiddenthirdpodcast Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hidden-third/id1845989117 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3n1BBoj3BgVuEYaiZ6SotF MARIANA: TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mariana_vanzeller Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marianavz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Between 4,000 and 6,000 cartel trespass growers take to the woods of California every year. They arrive armed, they stay for months, and they are ready to defend their cash crop at any cost. They divert waterways, deploy pesticides and fertilizers so toxic they were banned by the EPA over a decade ago, and leave behind environmental disasters that may take generations to repair. And they do all of this not in some remote foreign country — but in America's own backyard, sometimes within miles of population centers. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Mariana sits down with Nores to pull back the curtain on this largely invisible conflict — one that sits squarely at the intersection of drug trafficking, environmental destruction, cartel violence, and wilderness law enforcement. Nores walks Mariana through the dangerous operations his team ran deep in the backcountry, the shootouts they survived, and the environmental toll of an illegal industry that generates billions in black market revenue every year. He also explains why marijuana legalization did nothing to stop the cartels — and why the black market is still booming. If you've ever hiked a California trail, camped in a national forest, or followed the war on drugs, this conversation will change the way you see both. 🎙️ From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode, Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. 🔔 Subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday. THE HIDDEN THIRD: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoCiI8nJacn8gDiHxr6aQGA Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thehiddenthirdpodcast Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hidden-third/id1845989117 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3n1BBoj3BgVuEYaiZ6SotF MARIANA: TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mariana_vanzellerInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/marianavz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Go to http://factormeals.com/hiddenthird50off and use code hiddenthird50off to get 50% off and free breakfast for a year. What happens when one of the most powerful corporations in the world –  Amazon – decides your family is a threat? Amy Nelson, attorney, mother of four, and founder of The Riveter,  found out the hard way: frozen bank accounts, FBI raids, federal subpoenas, and the full weight of the Department of Justice deployed against her family without a single charge being filed. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Amy sits down with Mariana to break down exactly how a company so powerful that it could weaponize the federal government against a single family used civil asset forfeiture and its relationship with federal law enforcement to try to force a guilty plea from an innocent man — and how her family refused to break. This is a David vs Goliath story that reveals who actually controls the machinery of American justice. It's about what it costs — financially, emotionally, and personally — to stand up to a trillion-dollar company. And it's about what it means to win when the system is stacked against you. If you've ever wondered whether ordinary people can fight back against extraordinary power, Amy Nelson is your answer. ABOUT THE HIDDEN THIRD: From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode, Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. THE HIDDEN THIRD: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoCiI8nJacn8gDiHxr6aQGA Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thehiddenthirdpodcast Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hidden-third/id1845989117 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3n1BBoj3BgVuEYaiZ6SotF MARIANA: TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mariana_vanzeller Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marianavz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Go to http://expressvpn.com/hiddenthird to secure your online data and get up to four extra months. At 14, Christian Picciolini was a lonely kid from an Italian immigrant family in Chicago when he was recruited into the Chicago Area Skinheads — one of America's first neo-Nazi skinhead groups. By 16, he was leading it. He fronted white power punk bands, helped merge his group with the violent Hammerskin Nation, opened a record store selling hate music, and toured Europe playing to thousands. For years, he recruited young men into a movement built on violence and fear. Then something broke. In 1996, he walked away. Today, Christian is one of the most important voices in the fight against extremism. He's the author of “White American Youth” and “Breaking Hate”, and has spent decades helping people leave hate groups — doing the painstaking, one-on-one work of deradicalization. In this episode of THE HIDDEN THIRD, Christian joins me to unpack how radicalization actually works: the loneliness, the emotional hooks, the sense of belonging, the slow normalization of hate — and the personal unraveling that comes when your entire identity is built around an ideology designed to destroy. We talk about what pulled him in, what finally pushed him out, what extremism looks like today — and why, in the right conditions, almost anyone can be recruited into something they never imagined. Subscribe for more conversations from the underworld. ABOUT THE HIDDEN THIRD: From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode, Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. THE HIDDEN THIRD: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoCiI8nJacn8gDiHxr6aQGA Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thehiddenthirdpodcast Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hidden-third/id1845989117 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3n1BBoj3BgVuEYaiZ6SotF MARIANA: TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mariana_vanzellerInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/marianavz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On The Hidden Third, we explore the underground worlds and shadowy figures that drive much of the global economy—so today I’m excited to share an excerpt from a new audiobook about one of our culture’s most taboo, most-watched, and least-understood industries: porn. It’s the most watched business in the world. And the least understood. Streamed by millions every day, porn is everywhere. It shapes our culture, our relationships, and even technology. Yet, nobody seems to know who really controls the business. The power brokers tend to lurk in the shadows, while their performers remain quite literally exposed. In the new audiobook The Kink Machine: The Hidden Business of Adult Entertainment, from Pushkin Industries and the Financial Times, Financial Times journalists Patricia Nilsson and Alex Barker start digging into the porn industry and following where the money flows. Their reporting uncovers a shadowy power structure that includes billionaires, tech geniuses, and the most powerful finance companies in the world. A gripping exposé of how power operates behind the most taboo corner of the internet, Nilsson and Barker unravel a story about control, influence, and an industry with staggering cultural reach that no one really wants to talk about—until now. Here’s a preview of The Kink Machine. If you like what you hear, get The Kink Machine on Audible, Spotify, Pushkin.fm, or wherever you get audiobooks.  https://bio.to/KMHidden Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Go to http://selectquote.com/mariana to save more than 50% on term life insurance. Kari Ferrell became known as “The Hipster Grifter” after her cons went viral. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Kari joins me to talk about how her scams worked — from bad checks to stealing from friends and lying about being a cancer survivor — and how things escalated after she moved from Salt Lake City to New York City, where she landed a job at VICE. We dig into what was driving her at the time, how easy it can be to manipulate trust, and what it’s like to become a public villain on the early internet. Kari walks us through the consequences, the fallout, and what accountability and rebuilding look like when your name becomes synonymous with a grift. Subscribe for more conversations from the underworld. ABOUT THE HIDDEN THIRD: From Emmy and Peabody Award–winning journalist Mariana van Zeller comes THE HIDDEN THIRD, a weekly dive into the underground markets that quietly power a third of the global economy. Every episode, Mariana sits down with people who know these worlds firsthand - the hustlers, smugglers, scammers, kingpins, and those trying to shut them down. The series reveals how they function, why they endure, and the profound ways they impact us all. THE HIDDEN THIRD: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoCiI8nJacn8gDiHxr6aQGA Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thehiddenthirdpodcast Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-hidden-third/id1845989117 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3n1BBoj3BgVuEYaiZ6SotF MARIANA: TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mariana_vanzeller Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marianavz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Join The Hidden Third Patreon! https://patreon.com/TheHiddenThird Shaka Senghor went to prison for murder at 19 and spent seven of his 19 years in solitary confinement. But his imprisonment started long before that. Today, Mariana sits down with Shaka and has an intimate conversation about life’s hidden prisons, the moment in solitary confinement that changed his life, and the work he is passionate about now - speaking to young kids who grew up like him. Oprah Winfrey called her conversation with him one of the best conversations of her life. I understand why. Judge for yourself. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Join The Hidden Third Patreon today! patreon.com/thehiddenthird Watch on Spotify. Spotify subscribers get fewer ads on my video. Get up to $200 off Square hardware when you sign up at http://square.com/go/hiddenthird! #squarepod James Luckey-Lange had one country left to visit in the continental Americas: Venezuela. He'd survived Haiti, Nicaragua, a husky he buried in Patagonia, and the loss of both his parents — including his mother, the late Q Lazzarus, the singer behind "Goodbye Horses" from The Silence of the Lambs. He crossed into Venezuela on the back of a motorcycle taxi from Brazil on December 7th. He was detained the next day. What followed was more than a month of beatings, starvation, a sham trial, and solitary confinement in Rodeo I — one of the most notorious prisons in the world — where he scraped the alphabet onto a wall to teach his cellmate to read, and carved the names of fellow prisoners into a bar of soap he smuggled out in his underwear. His release came only after the U.S. military captured Maduro — news he learned six days late, through prison whispers and an unexpected serving of chocolate cake. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Mariana van Zeller sits down with James to hear the full story — and find out what he's doing with that soap. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Join The Hidden Third Patreon today! patreon.com/thehiddenthird Get 15% off OneSkin with the code MARIANA at http://www.oneskin.co/MARIANA #oneskinpod Amanda Knox was 20 years old when she went to Italy for a study abroad year. Weeks later, her roommate Meredith Kercher was murdered — and Amanda became the story. She was wrongfully convicted, sentenced to 26 years, and imprisoned for four years while the global media treated her guilt as a foregone conclusion. After one of the most high-profile exonerations in modern legal history, Amanda Knox is now a New York Times bestselling author, journalist, criminal justice reform advocate, and host of the wrongful conviction podcast Hard Knox. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Mariana van Zeller gets the real story — false confessions, media trials, the psychology of innocence, and what it actually takes to reclaim your life when the whole world got it wrong. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Join The Hidden Third Patreon today! patreon.com/thehiddenthird Watch on Spotify. If you’re subscribed to Spotify Premium, you don’t get any Spotify ads on my video. With a limited-time offer, get Huel today with an exclusive offer of 15% off online with the code MARIANA at https://www.huel.com/mariana. New customers only.  Meagan Elizabeth was born into the Two-by-Twos — one of the most secretive cults in the world. No name, no building, no written doctrine. Just families meeting in homes across 30 countries, convinced they were the only people on earth going to heaven. Fourth generation. She didn't choose it. For over a century the group sheltered at least 900 documented abusers before survivors spoke out and the FBI opened a global investigation in 2024. In this episode, Mariana sits down with Meagan to talk about what life inside really looked like, how she escaped, and what it takes to rebuild an identity after leaving a cult. Meagan is a cult survivor, comedian, and co-host of the cult podcast Trust Me. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Join The Hidden Third Patreon today! patreon.com/thehiddenthird Scott Budnick produced some of the biggest films in Hollywood — Old School, The Hangover, War Dogs. Then he visited a juvenile detention center in Los Angeles, and it changed the trajectory of his life. He walked away from Hollywood and started going into juvenile detention centers every week — teaching, listening, showing up for kids the system had written off. That was 22 years ago. He still goes every week. Along the way, he built the Anti-Recidivism Coalition (ARC) — a name suggested by Robert Downey Jr. — fought for sentences to be overturned, and watched people walk out of prison and build lives nobody thought were possible. And then he came back to Hollywood — this time to make films with real social impact, including Just Mercy, starring Michael B. Jordan. In this conversation, Mariana and Scott talk (a little bit) about Hollywood, but mostly about America's broken criminal justice system, why it fails the people it was supposed to correct, and what real change actually requires. Plus: the story of a man in solitary confinement for decades — Scott slipped his pinky through the cell bars to reach him, the first human contact this man had had in over 30 years. Today, because of policy reform Scott fought for, he is free and working with the homeless population. CODES: Limited Time Offer – You Need Fiber. Yes you! Boost your fiber with Huel today using my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code MARIANA at https://www.huel.com/MARIANA. New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show!Get 15% off OneSkin with the code MARIANA at https://www.oneskin.co/MARIANA #oneskinpod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Join The Hidden Third Patreon today! patreon.com/thehiddenthirdLola Blanc was 12 when a man at an LDS (Mormon) singles dance told her mother he was a prophet receiving direct revelation from God. No compound, no mass following — just a one-on-one system of control that separated Lola from her mom and escalated into coercion and trafficking, all framed as God's will. Lola's mother, Christine Marie, just starred in Netflix's Trust Me: The False Prophet — but this story never made the headlines, and the man was never fully stopped. Today Lola is a cult survivor, musician, filmmaker, actor (American Horror Story, Under the Silver Lake), and co-host of the Trust Me podcast, where she and Meagan Elizabeth dismantle the mechanics of coercion. In this episode, she tells Mariana van Zeller the full story. Limited Time Offer – You Need Fiber. Yes you! Boost your fiber with Huel today using my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code MARIANA at https://www.huel.com/MARIANA. New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! Timeline’s clinically proven formula, Mitopure, now starts at $79, when you subscribe at⁠ http://timeline.com/MARIANA⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Special episode drop! We're excited to share an interview with Mariana on The Jordan Harbinger Show. Mariana talks about her long-running show, Trafficked with Mariana van Zeller, her experiences in the field, and what she's taking on now. We hope you enjoy! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Join The Hidden Third Patreon today! patreon.com/thehiddenthird Frank Meeink's life runs parallel in many ways to one of the most powerful films ever made about hate in America — American History X. Except his story is real. By 16 he was one of the most notorious skinhead gang leaders on the East Coast. By 17 he had his own cable TV show preaching white supremacy. By 18 he was doing hard time in an Illinois prison for kidnapping and beating a teenager. In prison, a friendship with a Black inmate put the first cracks in his beliefs. After his release, a Jewish furniture dealer hired him — swastika tattoo and all — and treated him with more dignity than anyone ever had. Then the Oklahoma City bombing pushed him the rest of the way. He walked into the FBI and told them everything. But the biggest twist came later. A DNA test revealed he had Jewish ancestry. The man who once believed Jews were the root of all evil now keeps kosher and studies Torah. In this episode, Mariana sits down with Frank to talk about his time in the neo-Nazi movement, his deradicalization work, his memoir Autobiography of a Recovering Skinhead, and his life today — including his marriage to Allison Mack, the Smallville actress who served time for her role in the NXIVM sex cult. Limited Time Offer – You Need Fiber. Yes you! Boost your fiber with Huel today using my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code MARIANA at https://www.huel.com/MARIANA. New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On this episode of The Hidden Third, I interview Lee Harris — a channeler who claims to communicate with 88 intergalactic beings known as “The Z’s.” He reaches over 2 million people each month and leads a global spiritual community built around his teachings on consciousness, aliens, and the future of humanity. I’m a journalist, trained to look for evidence — not claims about non-human intelligence. But given Lee’s growing influence, I wanted to understand what’s behind it. For this conversation, I kept an open mind. What followed was one of the most unusual interviews I’ve conducted. During our conversation, Lee entered a channeling state and began speaking as the Z’s — allowing me to ask questions directly. He also gave me a personal spiritual reading in real time. We discuss: Who the Z’s are and what they claim Lee’s journey from musician to globally known channeler What these beings say about the future of humanity UFOs, UAPs, and recent government disclosures What it feels like to channel non-human intelligence A live channeling session during the interview A personal reading done on me Whether you’re skeptical or curious, this episode explores one of the fastest-growing and most controversial movements in modern spirituality. Upgrade your wallet today! Get up to 40% off @Ridge during their Father’s Day Sale when you go to https://www.Ridge.com/MARIANA #Ridgepod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nikki Mammano arrived in Hawaii as a college student and, within months, was running crystal meth in Waikiki. She became known as the Crystal Meth Queen of Waikiki — until it all came crashing down. Today, she’s a PTA mom in New Jersey and the author of Breaking Good, a brutally honest memoir about addiction, trauma, and the long road to healing. In this episode of The Hidden Third, we trace Nikki’s journey from an abused child and teenage addict to a meth dealer in Hawaii’s underworld, and eventually to a sober life built on therapy, accountability, and telling the truth about her past. She talks candidly about prison, homelessness, sex work, parenting with a criminal record, and what recovery really looks like years after the last high. In this conversation, we cover: Childhood abuse and the early wounds that shaped her Her teenage struggle with addiction How a college move to Hawaii spiraled into full‑time meth dealing Life as the Crystal Meth Queen of Waikiki and the rules of that underworld Violence, paranoia, and the moment everything collapsed Prison, shame, and confronting buried trauma Homelessness, sex work, and the cost of survival Parenting, PTA meetings, and living honestly with your past The role of therapy in long‑term recovery Why she wrote Breaking Good and what she hopes readers take from it If you or someone close to you is dealing with addiction, Nikki’s story is not a neat redemption arc — it’s a raw, hopeful map of relapse, repair, and the possibility of starting over. Go to http://Quince.com/hiddenthird for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This past January, America’s so‑called “last cannabis prisoner” walked out of federal custody after serving years on a marijuana trafficking conspiracy between California and the East Coast. At 24, he was running a multi‑million‑dollar weed pipeline from Northern California to Maryland, using tractor‑trailers, private planes, and even FedEx franchises as part of the cannabis supply chain. Before he was ever arrested, he realized a federal case was coming, contacted a lawyer known for representing El Chapo, and then disappeared into Central America as a fugitive. In this episode of The Hidden Third, we go inside his full story as a federal cannabis defendant in a “legal weed” America: how his operation actually worked, what happened to the millions he made, and how, once he was back in the system, he says he was scammed by a lawyer he trusted. We talk about: How a kid who’d been homeless as a teen in suburban Maryland built a national cannabis logistics network The nuts and bolts of the operation: Northern California grow, East Coast demand, trucks and FedEx franchises in between Why he fled to Central America under another identity — and what finally made him come back and face the federal indictment What happened to the money and why the millions he made didn’t translate into a soft landing How he says he was scammed by his own lawyer  Life inside pretrial custody and prison, “diesel therapy,” and what it means to try to rebuild while still on probation If you’re interested in the war on drugs, federal marijuana cases, or how large‑scale cannabis trafficking really works behind the headlines, this episode pulls back the curtain in a way you rarely hear from someone who’s just come home. Timeline’s clinically proven formula, Mitopure, now starts at $79, when you subscribe at http://timeline.com/MARIANA Save 60% on Webroot when you go to http://webroot.com/MARIANA Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How do you find people who do not want to be found? In this episode of The Hidden Third, Mariana sits down with skip tracer and private investigator Michelle Gomez – described by Wired as “the world’s best bounty hunter” – to unpack how she tracks down people who have disappeared on purpose, from the fugitive Ryan Eugene Mullen to a fake “Prince of Dubai.” At 4'11" and just over 100 pounds, Michelle doesn’t look like the person you’d send after fugitives, stolen heavy equipment, or missing yachts – and that’s exactly why she’s so good at it. She leans into her unassuming appearance and uses quirky disguises, from Girl Scout getups to sex‑worker personas, wigs, and glasses, to get close to people who do not want to talk. Michelle grew up in Texas, the daughter of two IBM engineers, and her parents made her build a computer from scratch and solder her own motherboard before she was a teenager. That early crash course in how systems fit together became the blueprint for her career: today she applies the same mindset to people, combing through digital traces, financial records, and tiny “location blips” to build a profile and find the one thread that gives a target away. Over more than two decades, she’s hunted down fugitives, scammers, debt‑dodgers, and high‑risk skips that collection agencies, other investigators, and even law enforcement have failed to locate. In this conversation, she breaks down her use of open‑source intelligence (OSINT), social engineering, and psychological profiling – and what her biggest cases reveal about privacy, ghosting, and the fantasy of truly disappearing. If you’re into investigative journalism, true crime, OSINT, or the hidden world of skip tracing and bounty hunting, this episode is for you. Get 15% off OneSkin with the code MARIANA at https://www.oneskin.co/MARIANA #oneskinpod Save 60% on Webroot when you go to http://webroot.com/MARIANA Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of The Hidden Third, we sit down with Wallo267 to unpack a story that starts in the harshest possible place: prison. Wallo caught his first conviction at just 10 years old. By 17, he was sentenced to adult prison, where he would spend the next 20 years locked away. Sometimes in the same facility as his own brother and stepfather. Instead of letting prison break him, he turned it into a classroom. Inside, Wallo started paying attention. He interviewed every newly arrived inmate about the outside world. Music, technology, culture, slang — tracking how everything was changing while he was gone. He filled notebooks, studied human behavior, and built a philosophy around one idea: your circumstances don’t get to decide your outcome. You do. Then everything changed. Wallo got hold of a contraband phone and began posting raw, unfiltered content from inside prison, building an audience before he ever walked out. By the time he stepped back into society, he already had a following and a blueprint for his new life. Today, Wallo267 is a Cultural Advisor at YouTube, co-host of Million Dollaz Worth of Game — one of the most influential cultural podcasts in the country — and a New York Times bestselling author whose books like Armed with Good Intentions and Yes to You, No to Them have inspired millions. This conversation dives into incarceration, transformation, cultural influence, and the mindset required to rewrite your story when the system expects you to fail. If you’re drawn to true crime, prison stories, personal transformation, or high-stakes comeback narratives, this episode is for you. Save 60% on Webroot when you go to http://webroot.com/MARIANA Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nearly 30 years after 15‑year‑old Danielle “Danni” Houchins was murdered in Montana, former LAPD captain Tom Elfmont helped finally bring her family answers. Drawing on more than 25 years running gang and narcotics operations in South Los Angeles, Tom has turned his skills to cold cases and long‑forgotten victims. In this episode, he takes us inside policing during some of the most volatile moments in modern U.S. history — from Vietnam and the protest years in Berkeley to the 1992 Los Angeles riots and the notorious 39th and Dalton drug raid that put his LAPD career on trial. Get 15% off OneSkin with the code MARIANA at https://www.oneskin.co/MARIANA #oneskinpod Timeline’s clinically proven formula, Mitopure, now starts at $79, when you subscribe at http://timeline.com/MARIANA Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Go to https://meetfabric.com/HIDDENTHIRD and apply today, risk-free  Try ZipRecruiter for free at http://ZipRecruiter.com/HIDDENTHIRD Sarma Melngailis was once the queen of New York’s vegan scene — a Wharton‑educated former Wall Street analyst who turned Pure Food and Wine and One Lucky Duck into celebrity hotspots frequented by Alec Baldwin, Woody Harrelson, Gisele Bündchen, Tom Brady, and many more. Then her life collapsed into one of the most infamous restaurant scandals of our time: a controlling partner, psychological abuse, coercive control, missing millions, a fugitive manhunt, Rikers Island, and the Netflix true crime documentary Bad Vegan: Fame. Fraud. Fugitives. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Sarma sits down with me to break down how a serial con man and psychological abuser — a man who first introduced himself to her as “Mr. Fox” — took over her mind and her life. We dig into: How a serial con man/abuser who called himself “Mr. Fox” (Anthony Strangis) slowly took control of her decisions, her finances, and her reality. The elaborate belief system he built around her: promising to make her dog Leon immortal, claiming access to a powerful otherworldly “family,” and turning wire transfers into supposed tests of loyalty. How he used spiritual language and “tests” to coerce her sexually — pressuring her into sex and sexual acts under the guise of bringing light, protection, and transformation into her life. The “meat suit” — how he used his own body and weight gain as yet another test of her devotion, and a tool of psychological control. How the press treated her, including the viral tabloid story that she was caught because “the vegan ordered a pizza” — a headline she says is completely false. Why she believes Bad Vegan unfairly portrayed her story, and what the documentary leaves out. How scammers and psychological abusers gain power over smart, empathetic people — and why intelligence alone isn’t a shield against coercive control. The mechanics of coercive control, isolation, and emotional abuse, and how one person can quietly take over your decisions, your money, and your sense of reality. How she was diagnosed as being on the spectrum late in life — and how that helped her understand both her vulnerabilities and her strengths. Her relationship with Alec Baldwin — and her thoughts on his marriage to Hilaria Baldwin. The cost of public shame, and what recovery looks like after fraud, prison, and global headlines — including her attempt to reclaim her story through her memoir The Girl with the Duck Tattoo. If you’re interested in true crime, scam stories, cult psychology, coercive control, or the dark side of fame and celebrity culture, this interview goes far beyond the documentary and tells the story in Sarma’s own words. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Timeline’s clinically proven formula, Mitopure, now starts at $79, when you subscribe at http://timeline.com/MARIANA. Adnan Alisic is the mastermind behind one of the craziest casino heists in American history — a Hollywood‑style armored car robbery that used a fake AK‑47, a blow‑up doll, bear spray, a motorized skateboard, and underground ATVs to try to steal millions from Casino Arizona. What sounds like a parody of Ocean’s 11 was, in reality, a desperate, meticulously planned casino heist built on bravado, improvisation, and a deep belief that he could outsmart a system designed to never lose. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Adnan sits down with me to trace how war, trauma, and gambling addiction led from Yugoslavia’s conflict zones to a multimillion‑dollar casino robbery — and what happened when the plan fell apart. We dig into: – His childhood and adolescence during the war, and how he helped support his family by selling counterfeit cigarettes. – The massacre of women and children he witnessed, how he survived it, and the trauma that followed.– His family’s move to Arizona after the war, adapting to life in America, and building a car business from scratch. – His first time inside a casino, how gambling took hold, and how his addiction spiraled into millions lost and the collapse of his business. – The day he decided he was going to rob Casino Arizona, and the planning that went into pulling off an armored‑car casino heist. – What actually happened on the day of the robbery, how the plan unraveled, and how he was ultimately caught. – His years in federal prison, what changed there, and how he began to confront his addiction and his past. – His work now in gambling‑addiction awareness and recovery — and why he wrote his book Arizona Dream. If you’re interested in true crime, organized crime, casino heist stories, scam psychology, gambling addiction, or how people convince themselves a casino can be beaten, this interview goes far beyond the headlines and tells the story in Adnan’s own words. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Get 15% off OneSkin with the code MARIANA at⁠ https://www.oneskin.co/MARIANA⁠  #oneskinpod Brad Beeler is one of the most experienced criminal polygraph examiners in U.S. Secret Service history — a 25-year federal agent who has sat across the table from counterfeiters, child predators, killers, and fraudsters, and gotten a remarkable number of them to tell him the truth. What looks in the movies like pressure, threats, and Reid-technique interrogation is, in his telling, almost the opposite: a science-backed set of trust-building, deception-detection, and interview techniques that he says a parent, a teacher, or a business leader can learn to use just as effectively as a federal agent. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Brad sits down with me to walk through the cases that shaped his career — from a years-long hunt for a master counterfeiter, to child-exploitation investigations, to a homicide confession he still calls the most transformative moment of his life — and to break down what actually gets people who don't want to talk to tell you the truth. We dig into: – Growing up in Union, Missouri, and how a childhood best friend who was deaf became the origin of the way he now thinks about communication.– His path into the Secret Service. – How he became a federal polygraph examiner and ended up conducting more criminal polygraph exams than anyone in Secret Service history.– The real story of how polygraphs work - why people "beat the examiner, not the instrument," how false confessions happen, and where confirmation bias becomes dangerous. – The King of Counterfeit case: the multi-year hunt for a master counterfeiter, and how the suspect's own ego became the interview lever.– His child-exploitation work with local ICAC task forces and homicide detectives — the cases that earned him U.S. Secret Service Special Agent of the Year in 2015. – The homicide confession he describes as "transformative," and how silence, presence, and empathy did what pressure never could. – Four years on the protective detail of former President George H. W. Bush in Maine and Houston, including what the Bushes did every Christmas so agents could be with their families. – His final post as instructor and Secret Service liaison at the National Center for Credibility Assessment, the federal government's polygraph school at Fort Jackson. – The tradecraft behind his new book, Tell Me Everything: A Secret Service Agent's Proven Strategies for Earning Trust, Revealing the Truth, and Communicating with Anyone — and why the same techniques that get a suspect to confess can also get a scared kid to text his parents at 2 a.m. If you're interested in true crime, interrogation techniques, deception detection, lie detector tests, Secret Service stories, child-exploitation investigations, or how the best interviewers in federal law enforcement actually get people to talk, this interview goes far beyond the headlines and tells the story in Brad's own words. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hostage negotiator and UN mediator Tom Gregg on Afghanistan, the Taliban, the Haqqani network, and the Bowe Bergdahl prisoner exchange. He has spent more than twenty years in rooms most of us will never see. Tom Gregg is a conflict and hostage mediator — the man governments send when they need to talk to people they officially refuse to communicate with. He was the UN's man in eastern Afghanistan, the most dangerous corner of the country, when a full-blown insurgency against America took hold. In September 2006 a suicide bomber assassinated Governor Hakim Taniwal, the man he worked alongside — a former university professor who'd come home from exile in Australia to try to rebuild his homeland. The next day a second bomber walked into the funeral and blew himself up among the mourners who'd come to bury him. He has mediated in Somalia, Nigeria and the Sahel, negotiated with kidnappers to bring hostages home, and run back channels for the United Nations, the U.S. government and the World Health Organization. When Kabul fell in August 2021, the UN sent him in to open the first face-to-face talks between the United Nations and the Taliban leadership. He almost never gives interviews, because almost none of his work can be discussed. This is one of the very few long conversations he has ever done. In this episode of The Hidden Third, Tom Gregg sits down with me to explain how the invisible business of negotiation actually works. We talk about: The 2014 Bowe Bergdahl exchange: five Guantánamo prisoners for one American soldier, and how a deal that big actually gets done Flying into Kabul days after the Taliban takeover to open the UN's first face-to-face talks with the new regime The Haqqanis: how the family America armed to fight the Soviets became the deadliest enemy the U.S. faced in Afghanistan Washington armed the father. The son now runs the police. How Sirajuddin Haqqani went from a ten-million-dollar FBI bounty to Afghanistan's interior minister The morning a suicide bomber killed Governor Hakim Taniwal, who he worked alongside in Gardez, and the second bomb that hit the funeral the next day Why those two attacks were the first sign that America's plan for Afghanistan was already failing How a kid from Australia ended up as a UN Political Affairs Officer in the most dangerous corner of Afghanistan The backpacking trip that changed his life, and the time he almost got mugged in Mexico City — the strangest night of his life Negotiating vaccine access with armed groups, and what it takes to get a nurse safely into a war zone Private diplomacy at the Centre for Humanitarian Dialogue in Geneva, and what an NGO can do that no government can What Afghanistan looks like in 2026, with Pakistan now bombing the same provinces the insurgency once crossed from How Bono once told him he was against Bill Clinton engaging Gerry Adams, the Sinn Féin leader the U.S. had banned for twenty years — and how watching that gamble help deliver the Good Friday Agreement changed his mind about talking to your enemy Why the most consequential work in the world is done by people whose names you will never learn His PTSD, how he got better, and why he believes communication is the only thing that ever really ends a war If you're interested in war, hostage negotiation, Afghanistan, the Taliban, intelligence, diplomacy, or the hidden systems that decide who lives and who comes home, this conversation goes somewhere almost no interview does. Subscribe to The Hidden Third on YouTube, and follow, rate and comment on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. It genuinely helps. Get exclusive episodes, behind-the-scenes conversations, and unaired footage from stories we couldn't tell anywhere else at Patreon.com/thehiddenthird Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices