The Experience Strategy Podcast – Détails, épisodes et analyse

The Experience Strategy Podcast | substack.theexperiencestrategist.com

A post on X went viral — 38,000 reshares, 83 million reads. Written by respected AI voice Matt Schumer, it opens with a gut-punch analogy: think back to February 2020. Most of us weren't paying attention to a virus spreading overseas. Then in three weeks, everything changed. Schumer's argument is that we are in a similar "this seems overblown" phase right now — except what's coming is bigger than COVID.

Dave, Joe, and Aransas dig into the article, push back where it's overblown, and land on what experience strategists actually need to do about it.

The article's core argument. AI isn't just getting better — it's getting faster, more capable at complex tasks, and increasingly independent of human involvement. The latest models are now building and debugging the next version of themselves. Schumer's point: no matter how complex or human your job feels, it's getting closer to AI's reach by the millisecond, not the minute.

What Schumer says to do about it — and the team's reaction:

• Use AI seriously. Don't dabble. Understand what it can actually do.
• Get your financial house in order. This isn't the time to be overextended.
• Lean into what's hardest to replace. Anything you do primarily on a screen is likely a 1–2 year exposure.
• Rethink what you're telling your kids. Their dreams just got closer — and the path there looks different.
• Get in the habit of adapting now, not when you're forced to.

Joe's take: good prescription, overblown description. AI is a tool, and no technology in history has eliminated more jobs than it created. The real question is mindset: executives who come to AI asking "how do I automate people out?" will find exactly that. Executives who ask "how do I augment my people?" will find something much more powerful in the human-plus-AI combination. The disruption, as with all disruptive innovation, starts at the bottom of the value chain and moves up — which means you need to be working above it.

The echo chamber problem. Joe raises a concern that's already documented: AI increasingly trains on AI output, creating what researchers are calling model collapse — a cyclical echo chamber where biases get replicated and amplified rather than corrected. The telephone game at civilizational scale. Aransas connects this to the show Pluribus, which she found boring as a narrative but compelling as a metaphor for hive-mind homogenization.

What experience strategists specifically need right now — three points from Dave:

1. Provenance. As AI commoditizes outputs, original sources become more valuable, not less. If you're building consumer insights without actually talking to consumers, you're already three steps from provenance. The strategists who can signal authentic, original sourcing will be disproportionately valuable.

2. Cross-disciplinary thinking. Experience strategists have been operating too narrowly — personas, journey maps, CX mechanics. AI gives you superpowers across marketing, planning, and adjacent disciplines. Use them. Going deeper on the same narrow lane is the wrong direction.

3. A strategic point of view. Not an opinion. A point of view. The difference: a POV is grounded in a real perspective on where things are headed and what companies should do about it. Joe's Transformation Economy is the model. Right now, the most defensible experience POV is transformation — because transformation is the economic offering most deeply dependent on human expertise, authentic relationships, and the kind of curated AI deployment that actually requires strategic judgment.

The era of typos and texture. Aransas's 15-year-old put it well: right now, the most human signal is imperfection. Messy feelings, quirky punctuation, genuine awkwardness — these are becoming markers of authenticity in a world of smoothed-out AI output. The demand for what feels genuinely human is rising alongside the supply of what doesn't.

"Knowledge work has changed forever. That is going to be a rough adjustment for all of us — and all experience strategists are knowledge workers." — Dave Norton

"If you come with the mindset of how can I get rid of people, you'll find ways to get rid of people. But if you come with a mindset of how this augments my people's skills and makes them better — you'll be amazed at what human plus AI can do." — Joe Pine

"Provenance is going to become more and more important. The inputs have to be better. Original data, original source — how do you get to that?" — Dave Norton

"The most defensible experience point of view you can have right now is probably transformation — because it's the one built on technology and human expertise together." — Aransas Savas

"This isn't a sit-on-our-hands-and-wait situation. This is a get-engaged situation." — Aransas Savas

• "Something Big Is Happening" by Matt Schumer — [https://x.com/mattshumer_/status/2021256989876109403]
• The Transformation Economy by B. Joseph Pine II — available now wherever books are sold
• Anthropic CEO quote: "AI will be substantially smarter than almost all humans at almost all tasks by 2026 or 2027."

The Experience Strategy Podcast is hosted by Aransas Savas, Dave Norton, and Joe Pine. Subscribe at substack.theexperiencestrategist.com.

In this special episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, Joe Pine shares with Dave and Aransas background about the book!  To celebrate the release of his new book, The Transformation Economy. The conversation traces the book's origins from the final two chapters of The Experience Economy, explores why the world is finally ready for this idea, and unpacks key frameworks — including encapsulation (preparation, reflection, and integration) — that make experiences truly transformative. The trio also discusses the role of AI in enabling transformation, why businesses must foster human flourishing, and who stands to benefit most from reading the book.

Why now for The Transformation Economy? Joe waited over 25 years because "the world wasn't ready" and he "didn't know enough." Research through Stone Mantle's collaboratives, the World Experience Organization, and post-COVID shifts toward meaningful experiences signaled the time had come.

Catalysts for transformation. The most prevalent catalyst is trauma — illness, loss, job changes, retirement. These disruptions create the conditions where people seek to see, do, and be differently.

The four spheres of human flourishing:

1. Health & well-being
2. Wealth & prosperity
3. Knowledge & wisdom
4. Purpose & meaning

Encapsulation — the essential framework (Chapter 4): To turn a memorable experience into a transformative one, you need three layers around the core experience: preparation (priming beforehand), reflection (making meaning afterward — which retroactively increases the value of the experience), and integration (sustaining change over time).

The business model problem. Most companies get paid for the event, not the outcome. Shifting to outcome-based pricing — as McKinsey is doing with AI projects — aligns incentives with lasting transformation.

AI as a transformation enabler. AI makes the hardest parts of delivering transformation (especially ongoing integration and support) dramatically more accessible and affordable.

• Companies in education, finance, health, and well-being
• Any business focused on improving the lives of families and individuals
• The creator economy — creators already doing transformation work who need frameworks to do it well and realize its full value

• "The entire raison d'être of business is to foster human flourishing." — Joe Pine
• "Reflection retroactively increases the value of the experience." — Joe Pine
• "If you don't do it, it's just lazy." — Aransas Savas, on using available technology to encapsulate experiences

• The Transformation Economy by Joe Pine
• The Experience Economy by Joe Pine & Jim Gilmore
• Stone Mantel's Experience Strategy Collaboratives
• The World Experience Organization (founded by James Wallman)
• Arrival 360 Conference
• Daniel Kahneman's experiencing self vs. remembering self
• McKinsey's outcome-based AI pricing model

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Adweek just did a write up on Uber's new ad campaign and we found reasons to concur with the article and take what Uber is doing farther. In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aranzas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton discuss Uber's new advertising campaign, focusing on its storytelling approach and the importance of experiences in marketing. They explore how Uber positions itself as a service that enables meaningful experiences, the emotional, social, and systemic jobs it could fulfill, and the broader implications for brands in commoditized industries. The conversation also delves into the significance of modes and situations in user experience, and how universal storytelling can resonate with diverse audiences.

Takeaways

• Uber's new campaign emphasizes storytelling over traditional advertising.
• Experiences are crucial for differentiation in a commoditized market.
• Uber positions itself as an enabler of meaningful experiences.
• The campaign highlights reliability and dependability as key selling points.
• Emotional and social jobs are opportunity areas for Uber experiences.
• The storytelling is both universal and situational--and Tiktokky
• Modes and situations play a significant role in Uber experiences.
  
  

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Uber's New Campaign
01:40 The Power of Storytelling in Advertising
04:00 Experiences as Differentiation in Marketing
07:28 The Role of Uber in Enabling Experiences
09:47 Promises and Expectations in Service
12:06 Social and Emotional Jobs of Uber
13:47 Aspirational and Systemic Jobs to Be Done
16:35 Modes and Situations in User Experience
20:17 Universal Storytelling in Advertising
22:24 Conclusion and Future Discussions

Read more

https://www.adweek.com/brand-marketing/uber-drives-home-the-power-of-showing-up-in-new-on-our-way-ad/

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Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here:

https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com

The pandemic has influenced every aspect of how we deliver customer experiences. We are joined today by experience strategy pioneers Colin Shaw and Joseph D. Pine to make predictions about what the new normal will look like… and recommendations about what it should look like. Will 2022 be the year today's companies step forward into the future or will they stay stuck in the past?  

In This Episode: 

• [03:39] Joe and Colin share why people are listening to experts that cultivate digital services and experiences.  
• [08:52] How Colin and Joe define "experiences."
• [13:37] Colin and Joe discuss "experience strategy."  
• [17:21] What companies are missing the key element of experience strategy?
• [19:33] How the American Customer Satisfaction Index can shed light on how many companies actively pursue or actively ignore progress in customer satisfaction.  
• [29:35] Are companies approaching industry change with the wrong mindset?
• [34:27] Where will customers go from here?  
• [37:15] Colin describes the elements of what he labels "Customer Science."
• [42:59] Joe and Colin share their New Year's Resolutions for their work in 2022.  

Key Takeaways: 

• The pandemic has been a catalyst for companies to review their business models.  The time for companies to define their new mindset is now.  
• Between the years 2010 and 2019, only 30% of organizations improved their customer satisfaction.  That means that 70% of organizations' customer satisfaction either declined or remained flat.  
• Customer experience is still in its infancy.  Perhaps the pandemic will be what nudges it into maturity.  
• The future of customer satisfaction will depend on both companies and customers.  We all have a choice to go back to the way things were before, with mediocre experiences, or to move forward and build new standards and expectations.  

Bio: Colin Shaw & Joseph D. Pine

Colin is an original pioneer of 'Customer Experience.' LinkedIn has recognized him as one of the 'World's Top 150 Business Influencers', where he has 290,000 followers. As the Founder & CEO of Beyond Philosophy LLC, his Customer experience consulting company has been recognized by the Financial Times as 'one of the leading management consultancies for the last three years in a row. Colin is the co-host of the highly successful Intuitive Customer podcast, which is rated in the top 5% of all podcasts by BuzzSprout.

Joseph Pine II is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management advisor to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial start-ups. He is cofounder of Strategic Horizons LLP, a thinking studio dedicated to helping businesses conceive and design new ways of adding value to their economic offerings. In 2020 Mr. Pine and his partner James H. Gilmore re-released their groundbreaking book The Experience Economy: Competing for Customer Time, Attention, and Money with many new ideas, frameworks, and exemplars plus a new Preview to their best-selling 1999 book The Experience Economy: Work Is Theater; Every Business a Stage. The book demonstrates how goods and services are no longer enough; what companies must offer today are experiences – memorable events that engage each customer in an inherently personal way. It further shows that in today's Experience Economy companies now compete against the world for the time, attention, and money of individual customers. 

What will it take for in-person retailers to remain successful in a world increasingly dominated by Amazon? In two words: Transformative Experiences! In this episode we offer predictions and guidance for retailers who are ready to earn the economic power of guiding their customers on meaningful and impactful transformational journeys. 

In This Episode: 

• [02:00] What exactly is the Transformation Economy?
• [03:32] Where Transformations fit within the Experience Economy as described by B. Joseph Pine II and James H. Gilmore
• [04:36] Dave reflects on an article he co-wrote called The New You Business: How to Compete on Personal Transformations for the Harvard Business Review.  
• [06:20] How does understanding people's wish for transformation influence how companies think about jobs to be done?  
• [09:50] Which retailers are currently doing well with Transformations?
• [16:57] We make suggestions for ways Home Depot could successfully compete in the Transformation Economy. 
• [33:43] What it is going to take for in-person retail to stick around in the world of Amazon.  
• [34:05] Here is a video Dave and Aransas made with Joe Pine to help you dig deeper into the concept of transformational jobs within the retail industry.  https://www.stonemantel.co/hbr-article

Key Takeaways: 

• 77% of consumers tried new shopping habits in 2021.  
• Experiences drive a greater economic value.  People are more willing to invest in them.  
• Retailers need to know what role they are going to play to help people transform their customers' lives.  
• Companies that focus on the progressive journeys of their customers rather than just the spending aspect tend to build more trust with their customers.  

Veteran researcher and pharmacist Kevin Asher knows the pharmaceutical industry inside out.  Today he joins us to discuss innovative digital solutions that were born during the pandemic, industry breakthroughs, and the patient data powering the most valuable patient experiences.  

In This Episode: 

• [03:49] How has the pharmaceutical industry's focus shifted over the last sixteen years?  What has changed?  
• [06:58] Kevin shares what he believes is the biggest area of growth for the pharmaceutical industry.  
• [07:55]  An industry breakthrough for treating chronic musculoskeletal pain has just been licensed by the FDA.  
• [09:00] How can patient care be improved through digital solutions?  
• [10:01] What is inspiring Pharma to make these shifts after many years of the same approaches to patient care?  
• [15:00] Dave touches on how regulated our healthcare system is and how technology is challenging the system.  
• [17:47] Kevin answers the question, "Why would pharma need to collect data about patients using their products?"  
• [27:01] How have collaborative studies on patient experience affected how new clinical trials are being designed?
• [33:00] How has the pandemic challenged the status quo of the patient experience?  

Key Takeaways: 

• The thinking behind patient care no longer focuses on a magic pill or magic injection, but rather on collaborative studies on patient experience.  
• Digital interventions are meant to create more access to resources for patients and consumers within the healthcare industry.  
• The pandemic has opened up many doors for the healthcare system to rethink some out of date regulations and systems to help modernize the patient experience.  

Bio: Kevin Asher

Kevin Asher is a UK registered pharmacist who has spent the last 16 years in the Pharmaceutical Industry, primarily in the Medical departments of the business focused on generating, interpreting and communicating clinical data.  Since 2019 he has been focusing on how digital solutions can improve patient care and result in better communications with healthcare practitioners. 

Our homes are getting smarter! The more technology understands our unique needs and modes, the more it can make our lives easier and more meaningful. Today we are joined by Tanseela Molani, the Senior Manager of Experience Research at the Chamberlain Group, to discuss how experience insights are shaping the future of smart home technology. 

In This Episode: 

• [1:14] What is experience research?
• [3:06] How Chamberlain Group is working to benefit their consumers in current times.  
• [5:30] Identifying consumer needs. 
• [7:28] How do consumer trust and convenience come into play when companies are designing new technologies and services?
• [19:45] Tech companies rely on consumer intelligence for innovation  
• [22:33] Connecting micro moments of our lives can drive technological advancements.  
• [33:40] How companies can measure customer experience return on investment (ROI).  
• [37:33] Final thoughts.  

Key Takeaways: 

• Our needs and motivations change throughout the day, and smart products, technologies, and services should reflect those changes.  
• When we move from one "mode" to another, we are moving through a threshold, even if just for a moment.  These thresholds are the moments tech companies need to study to better understand customer needs.  
• As a consumer, companies providing a service or experience through smart technology need honest feedback.  This will allow them to upgrade and adapt their technology to further serve customers.  
• Strategists should focus on digging deeper into what drives behaviors, thoughts, trends.  

Bio: Tanseela Molani

Tanseela Molani joined Chamberlain Group in 2017 as Sr. Manager, Experience Research. Prior to Chamberlain Group, she led the design research team at United Airlines and Motorola Mobility. During her tenure at these companies she drove meaningful growth by gaining a deep understanding of underlying customer needs and motivations, such as resetting the tone of the disrupted traveler notifications, to creating new mobile phone experiences when mobile phones were still a new technology. Professionally, nothing is more fulfilling for Tanseela than uncovering the motivational nugget that can lead to innovation, a better product or a new service.

Tanseela is a graduate of University of Calgary, where she majored in Industrial Design, with a sub-focus on design management. She resides in the Chicago metro with her husband. Outside of work, Tanseela enjoys a good TV binge, baking and working out.  

There is an undeniable increase in demand for more convenient healthcare. In today's episode, we are joined by thought leader and Chief Scientist for the Health and Human-Machine Systems Group at the Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory, Michael McShea, to talk about the why and how of making healthcare more convenient and helpful for patients. Join us for Part 2 of our series on Digital Innovation in Healthcare as we discuss how technology is helping healthcare providers work better, and patients heal better.

In This Episode:

• [02:10] Introducing Michael and his thoughts on how consumer demand and expectation for virtual offerings have shifted.
• [05:34] Value-based healthcare, how it relates to experience strategy, and the role convenience plays.
• [08:31] Some of the key trends Michael has his eye on.
• [16:36] How close are we to having our own personal healthcare digital assistants?
• [19:47] The convenience and efficiency of moving more care to the home environment.
• [25:55] Competent data collection and using data effectively.
• [31:05] How Covid has prompted automation in healthcare.
• [36:21] Key experience strategy takeaways.

Key Takeaways:

• Technology is not ready to take over for your doctor, but a big trend is happening towards combining digital and human elements to make healthcare a better experience.
• Healthcare has historically been slow to innovate, but they've gotten a powerful nudge from the world as consumer needs and expectations shift.
• The increase in demand for more convenient healthcare, COVID, and a shift towards value-based care make up a trifecta driving healthcare changes right now.
• We are finally seeing some headway in digital-first primary care, not entirely unlike the Netflix model.

Bio: Michael McShea

Michael McShea is a Chief Scientist for the Health and Human-Machine Systems Group at the Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory (APL) supporting the National Health Mission Area. In this role, he works with the Military Health System, Johns Hopkins Medicine, and other Academic Medical Research Organizations and federal agencies on population health, precision health, telehealth, decision support, AI, and digital health initiatives. 

In addition to his APL position, Mr. McShea joined the CareFirst BlueCross BlueShield Board of Directors in 2016 and serves on audit and compliance, service quality and operations, and cybersecurity committees, as well as the CareFirst Holdings board which oversees CareFirst's venture arm HealthWorx.  He is also an industry advisor to the Digital Health Collaborative, a cross industry consortium advancing research in personal digital health engagement, and has been a strategic advisor to multiple early stage digital health companies. 

Prior to APL, Mr. McShea was a product management executive in the population health business group at Philips Healthcare, where he managed product portfolios including the eICU Tele Critical Care platform, remote patient monitoring, population health, care management, and other digital health solutions.  Before Philips Healthcare, he worked in mission critical infrastructure technologies in the satellite, financial services, and aviation industries. 

In part 1 of our series on Digital Innovation in Healthcare In today's episode, we're discussing why now is the moment for healthcare to look at patient journeys through fresh eyes. Joined by Tom Donnelly, Ph.D., who has a background in psychology and leads the MedTech group at Branding Science, we look at how digital interventions can lead to better health outcomes and other ways technology can improve the patient experience.

In This Episode:

• [01:50] Introducing Tom, what he's been focusing on these days, and what drives him.
• [03:30] Patient journeys and how that relates to the work that Tom has been doing.
• [04:42] How healthcare companies should be thinking about patient journeys.
• [11:15] Shifts in patient journeys related to COVID.
• [18:25] Examining consumer expectations around healthcare and how they relate to consumer habits.
• [22:07] The Stupid Dumb Smart Genius Framework and Tom's own journey with healthcare tools. 
• [32:30] Focusing more on better outcomes and removing friction with technology.
• [33:35] Key experience strategy takeaways. 

Key Takeaways:

• Covid has accelerated the availability of home healthcare, but the industry has to look at that experience in its new context, and get a full understanding of the experience, if they want it to work. 
• Observational research is a powerful way to understand how people and environments interact with med-tech in their real lives.
• Whether you're examining the patient or customer journey, it's essential to step back and think about journeys in an integrated and holistic way instead of just moment to moment.
• Genius solutions will help people take healthcare actions by using data to make the experience meaningful and help get us all in a better place.

Bio: Tom Donnelly, PhD

Tom leads the MedTech group at Branding Science where he provides marketing research consultation and human factors using approaches informed by social science. He also leads their Inclusion Team in an effort to help people feel they belong and are included, as well as to help the industry become more diverse. Tom is involved in various industry organizations. He leads Intellus Worldwide's Clear Health Communication Taskforce that focuses on how health literacy can improve healthcare outcomes. He is also a founding member of the Digital Healthcare Collaborative [a collection of thought leaders from Pharmaceutical Manufacturers, Solutions Providers, Medical Systems and Health Insurance Companies

conducting several rounds of research as part of an innovation process]. Prior to his 16 years in industry, Tom was a Visiting Professor at Rutgers where he taught psychology and statistics. He received his PhD in Cognitive Psychology from NYU. Tom hosts MedTech Chat podcast where he discusses the latest healthcare tools, device technology, as well as research approaches. 

You can find his podcast on Spotify or at WWW.MedTechChat.Com

There's nothing better than a human to understand other humans. In today's episode, we're joined by Jess Lynch, Founder and CEO of Wishroute, to discuss the #1 thing most digital wellness companies are missing: human-powered accountability supported by technology. If it's your job to help people achieve their goals, don't miss this episode.

In This Episode:

• [02:00] Introducing Jess and Wishroute.
• [10:36] Collecting meaningful data and having a human in the loop.
• [16:34] How Wishroute combines automation and humans for consistent, scalable, and high quality customer support.
• [19:04] Using meaningful data to motivate and support customers when they need it the most.
• [25:42] The shift in language around setting goals and how reflection fits into Wishroute's design.
• [31:18] Gretchen Ruben's Four Tendencies and how Jess and her team use it to turn intrinsic motivation into extrinsic motivation.
• [33:58] Things to consider if you're delivering experiences and making decisions in service of your customers.

Key Takeaways:

• Wishroute is a unique human-powered platform that helps people improve the way they live their lives and stay healthy. By using strategic text messaging, Wishroute is able to nudge customers forward along the desired customer journey through authentic two-way conversations.
• Companies aren't providing the support people need to actually change their habits and adopt the product. Wishroute takes it a step further with positivity and coaching their customers to guide them and meet them where they are.
• Customers on transformational and aspirational journeys need human support to succeed.
• The most impactful solutions are digital plus human and finding the right blend to have the scale, consistency, and quality. 

Bio: Jess Lynch

Jess Lynch is a prior PwC forensic consultant and Babson MBA, who turned her investigative talents toward figuring out how to help people achieve their goals when they sign up for new products. Wishroute's unique methodology was born from her family's experience with lifestyle change—her brother was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes and her mom wrote a book about the family's experience that helped many families in similar positions. Wishroute's next-generation customer engagement platform increases customer retention and success for wellness companies through AI-enhanced, human text message conversations.

Links/Resources Mentioned:

Gretchen Ruben, Four Tendencies