Explorez tous les épisodes du podcast The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant

In the final episode of The Curiosity Shop, Brené Brown and Adam Grant draw on Adam’s new book, Vibe (out October 13), to explore how recognizing the differences between associates, allies, pals, and companions can help us better understand our connections. They unpack the pressure we put on relationships, the importance of being clear about what we want from them, and why a great interaction doesn’t always need to become an ongoing relationship. They also explore the idea of being on the same wavelength and the concept of “sonder,” the recognition that we can never fully know another person’s inner world. Along the way, Brené and Adam reflect on their own relationship, what they’ve learned from working together, and how their connection has evolved throughout The Curiosity Shop. Vibe – Adam Grant, 2026, adamgrant.net Tiny Experiments: How to Live Freely in a Goal-Obsessed World – Anne-Laure Le Cunff, 2025, Ness Labs How the Enneagram System Works – The Enneagram Institute, enneagraminstitute.com Give and Take – Adam Grant, 2013, adamgrant.net Our Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation: The U.S. Surgeon General's Advisory on the Healing Effects of Social Connection and Community – Vivek Murthy, 2023, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Social Connection Linked to Improved Health and Reduced Risk of Early Death – World Health Organization, 2025, World Health Organization US Trends in Social Isolation, Social Engagement, and Companionship—Nationally and by Age, Sex, Race/Ethnicity, Family Income, and Work Hours, 2003–2020 – Viji Diane Kannan, 2023, SSM – Population Health Talk, Trust, and Trade-Offs: How and Why Teens Use AI Companions – Common Sense Media, 2025, Common Sense Media What I Got Wrong About Connection – Adam Grant, 2026, Granted (Substack) How I Overcame the Fear of Public Speaking – Adam Grant, 2014, Psychology Today A Practical Guide to Building Taxonomies That Make Data Truly Useful to Your Organization – UserTesting, 2023, UserTesting Blog The Grapes of Wrath – John Steinbeck, 1939, Penguin Random House Friends – David Crane, 1994, NBC (IMDb) Vibe Quiz – Adam Grant, adamgrant.net DTR – Dictionary.com, 2018, Dictionary.com Vulnerability Is the Birthplace of Innovation, Creativity and Change: Brené Brown at TED2012 – Helen Walters, 2012, TED Blog Nicomachean Ethics, Book VIII – Aristotle, c. 350 BCE, The Internet Classics Archive (MIT) Friendship – Bennett Helm, 2021, Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy The Anatomy of Friendship – Robin Dunbar, 2018, Trends in Cognitive Sciences Let's Rumble – Brené Brown, 2019, brenebrown.com Similar Neural Responses Predict Friendship – Carolyn Parkinson, 2018, Nature Communications Single-Serving Friends (Fight Club) – Uploader unknown, YouTube Wharton Professor Adam Grant Knows How to Build Stronger Bonds at Work – Aman Kidwai, 2025, Newsweek Mistakenly Seeking Solitude – Nicholas Epley, 2014, Journal of Experimental Psychology: General Social Interactions and Well-Being: The Surprising Power of Weak Ties – Gillian Sandstrom, 2014, Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin Learning to Talk to Strangers – Gillian Sandstrom, 2022, SPSP Character & Context blog The Power of High-Quality Connections – Jane Dutton, 2003, Positive Organizational Scholarship (Berrett-Koehler) Flow and Happiness – Joachim Krueger, 2015, Psychology Today Basking in Reflected Glory: Three (Football) Field Studies – Robert Cialdini, 1976, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology Brené and Adam on What They Will Never Agree On – Brené Brown, 2026, The Curiosity Shop (YoutTube) Do Parasocial Relationships Fill a Loneliness Gap? – Heidi Godman, 2024, Harvard Health Publishing Sonder – John Koenig, The Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows Beautiful New Words to Describe Obscure Emotions – John Koenig, 2016, TEDxBerkeley Atlas of the Heart – Brené Brown, 2021, brenebrown.com Sonder Playlist - The Best of Sonder – Revive Music, YouTube Awe, the Small Self, and Prosocial Behavior – Paul Piff, 2015, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology The Emotions You've Felt but Never Named with John Koenig – Adam Grant, 2025, ReThinking (Apple Podcasts) The Emotions You've Felt but Never Named with John Koenig (transcript) – Adam Grant, 2025, ReThinking (TED Audio Collective) Developmental Changes in the Relation between Youth Disclosure and Parenting Behavior: A Cohort-sequential Analysis – Sara Goldstein, 2023, Journal of Youth and Adolescence The Development of Children's Knowledge About Inner Speech – John Flavell, 1997, Child Development 9 Words for Types of Parenting – Merriam-Webster, Merriam-Webster Wordplay The Art of Gathering: How We Meet and Why It Matters – Priya Parker, 2018, Riverhead / Penguin Random House The Liking Gap in Conversations: Do People Like Us More Than We Think? – Erica Boothby, 2018, Psychological Science Can Conflict Actually Make Our Relationships Stronger? with Priya Parker (video) – Brené Brown, 2026, YouTube VIBE Tour – Adam Grant, adamgrant.net Adam Grant – Dallas – Dallas Museum of Art Arts & Letters Live – Etix, 2026, Etix ReThinking with Adam Grant – Adam Grant, 2021, TED Audio Collective The Enneagram: A Systematic Review of the Literature and Directions for Future Research – Joshua Hook, 2021, Journal of Clinical Psychology Brian R. Little – Brian Little, brianrlittle.com Nicomachean Ethics, Book VIII – Aristotle, c. 350 BCE, The Internet Classics Archive (MIT) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why are we so susceptible to persuasion? In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, Brené Brown and Adam Grant discuss a tip Brené picked up from Seventeen magazine in the ‘80s and end up exploring why we fall for misinformation and persuasive messaging. They examine how vulnerability makes us more receptive to fear-based messaging, how appeals to authority can sometimes stand in for real evidence, and why recognizing misinformation isn’t always enough to protect us from it. Brené and Adam also consider the role of belonging, including the ways our desire for connection, community, and shared identity can make certain ideas especially persuasive. Along the way, they develop a practical framework for resisting unwanted influence: recognize your vulnerability, build your persuasion literacy, and trace information back to its source. Vibe: The Secrets of Strong Connections in a Lonely World - Adam Grant, 2026, Viking MythBusters: Rinsing Your Hair In Cold Water - Into The Gloss, 2015 I Washed My Hair With Coca-Cola (and Other Teen-Magazine Beauty Experiments) - Seventeen Made to Stick: Why Some Ideas Survive and Others Die - Chip Heath & Dan Heath, 2007, Random House Free Resources, including 'Making Presentations That Stick' - Chip Heath & Dan Heath, HeathBrothers.com Jayne Modean - Wikipedia contributors, Wikipedia Alzheimer's Association 24/7 Helpline, 800-272-3900 - Alzheimer's Association Dr. Cialdini's Biography - Influence at Work Dispelling the Illusion of Invulnerability: The Motivations and Mechanisms of Resistance to Persuasion - Stanford Center on Longevity, 2011 Resistance to Persuasion - Dolores Albarracín & A. Karan, 2022, Oxford Research Encyclopedia of Psychology Dr. Jessica Knurick - Jessica Knurick Jessica Knurick's Reaction Video - Jessica Knurick, Facebook A Public Health Expert Keeps Going Viral on Instagram for Delivering This Very Simple Message - Scott, 2025, Vox What's the Difference Between Physicians and Naturopaths? - American Medical Association, 2024 Appeal to Authority Fallacy: When Expertise Becomes a Logical Trap - Logically Fallacious, 2026 Evidence-Based Practice: Levels of Evidence - Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center Library Evidence-Based Management - Jeffrey Pfeffer & Robert Sutton, 2006, Harvard Business Review White House Moves to Take Control of NIH Scientific Grants - The New York Times, 2026, The Philadelphia Inquirer 'Warning: This Image Has Been Digitally Altered': The Effect of Disclaimer Labels Added to Fashion Magazine Shoots on Women's Body Dissatisfaction - Marika Tiggemann, Zoe Brown, Mia Zaccardo & Nicole Thomas, 2017, Body Image The Sleeper Effect in Persuasion: A Meta-Analytic Review - G. Tarcan Kumkale & Dolores Albarracín, 2004, Psychological Bulletin The Mirror-Neuron System - Giacomo Rizzolatti & Laila Craighero, 2004, Annual Review of Neuroscience Social Media Posts About Medical Tests With Potential for Overdiagnosis - Brooke Nickel and colleagues, 2025, JAMA Network Open We Analysed Almost 1,000 Social Media Posts About 5 Popular Medical Tests. Most Were Utterly Misleading - Nickel & Moynihan, 2025, The Conversation Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion - Robert Cialdini, 2021; first published 1984, Harper Business The Confidence Game: Why We Fall for It . . . Every Time - Maria Konnikova, 2016, Viking How to Know If You're Being Lied To - Khazan, 2016, The Atlantic Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments - Justin Kruger & David Dunning, 1999, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology Recursive Self-Improvement and Agentic AI: Fear of the AI Singularity - HackerNoon, 2026 How Do AI Companies 'Fine-Tune' Policy? Examining Regulatory Capture in AI Governance - Kevin Wei, Carson Ezell, Nick Gabrieli & Chinmay Deshpande, 2024, AIES-24 Proceedings George J. Stigler, 'The Theory of Economic Regulation' - Christopher Carrigan & Cary Coglianese, 2015, Oxford Handbook of Classics in Public Policy and Administration The Psychology of Conspiracy Theories - Karen Douglas, Robbie Sutton & Aleksandra Cichocka, 2017, Current Directions in Psychological Science Powerful Pharma and Its Marginalized Alternatives? Effects of Individual Differences in Conspiracy Mentality on Attitudes Toward Medical Approaches - Pia Lamberty & Roland Imhoff, 2018, Social Psychology People with a Conspiracy Mindset Resist Childhood Vaccination, Study Shows - Annenberg Public Policy Center, 2023 COVID-19 Misinformation: Scientists Create a 'Psychological Vaccine' to Protect Against Fake News - van der Linden & Roozenbeek, 2021, The Conversation LinkedIn Post on Collective Vulnerability - Brené Brown, 2020, LinkedIn Brené on FFTs - Brené Brown, 2020, Unlocking Us The Group Polarization Phenomenon - David Myers & Helmut Lamm, 1976, Psychological Bulletin Group Polarization - EBSCO Research Starters Braving the Wilderness: The Quest for True Belonging and the Courage to Stand Alone - Brené Brown, 2017, Random House Foolproof: Why Misinformation Infects Our Minds and How to Build Immunity - Sander van der Linden, 2023, W. W. Norton How 'Prebunking' Misinformation Works - CBS News / 60 Minutes, YouTube Bad News - Cambridge Social Decision-Making Lab, (Game that teaches manipulation tactics) Lump: A Memoir in Ineloquent Reflections - Allison Sweet Grant, 2026, Little, Brown and Company National Breast Cancer Foundation - National Breast Cancer Foundation Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What if grit isn’t the whole story behind success? Psychologist and author Angela Duckworth joins Brené Brown and Adam Grant to talk about her new book, Situated, and how the situations around us influence our behavior, motivation, creativity, and success. They unpack situational awareness, the paradox of self-control, and why willpower can be an unreliable tool for change. Angela also shares practical ways to shape your environment, reduce friction around your goals, and decide whether to keep going versus change course. Together, they explore how becoming more intentional about our surroundings, relationships, and support systems is often more powerful than simply trying harder. Situated: Find the People and Places That Bring Out Your Best - Angela Duckworth, 2026, Scribner (author's book page) Situated Preface (excerpt) - Angela Duckworth, 2026, web excerpt with audiobook sample, angeladuckworth.com Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance - Angela Duckworth, 2016, Scribner  Grit: Perseverance and Passion for Long-Term Goals - Angela Duckworth, Christopher Peterson, Michael Matthews & Dennis Kelly, 2007, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology Too Much of a Good Thing: The Challenge and Opportunity of the Inverted U - Adam Grant & Barry Schwartz, 2011, Perspectives on Psychological Science Situational Strategies for Self-Control - Angela Duckworth, Tamar Szabó Gendler & James Gross, 2016, Perspectives on Psychological Science Beyond Willpower: Strategies for Reducing Failures of Self-Control - Angela Duckworth, Katherine Milkman & David Laibson, 2018, Psychological Science in the Public Interest Oxford Essential Quotations (George Bernard Shaw entry) - Susan Ratcliffe (ed.), 2018, reference-work entry, Oxford Reference / Oxford University Press Maxims for Revolutionists - George Bernard Shaw, 1903; Project Gutenberg edition 2008, public-domain e-text, Project Gutenberg Figure This: Deciding What's Figure, What's Ground - Adelson, 2002, Monitor on Psychology (American Psychological Association) LinkedIn post on situations - Angela Duckworth, 2025, social-media post, LinkedIn The Four Essential Elements of Successful Situations - Duckworth, 2026, book excerpt (online article), Knowledge at Wharton Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit - Brené Brown, 2025, Random House  Angela Duckworth on Her New Book, ‘Grit’ Controversy, and Parenting in a Digital Age - Fiorillo, 2026, Philadelphia Magazine Rethinking Rumination - Susan Nolen-Hoeksema, Blair Wisco & Sonja Lyubomirsky, 2008, Perspectives on Psychological Science Self-Focused Attention and Negative Affect: A Meta-Analysis - Nilly Mor & Jennifer Winquist, 2002, Psychological Bulletin Situated Scorecard - Angela Duckworth, 2026, interactive self-assessment (web page), angeladuckworth.com Situated Scorecard Handout - Angela Duckworth, 2026, PDF handout, angeladuckworth.com Self-Control and SAT Outcomes: Evidence from Two National Field Studies - Chayce Baldwin, Kyla Haimovitz, Priya Shankar, Robert Gallop, David Yeager, James Gross & Angela Duckworth, 2022, PLOS ONE Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion - Robert Cialdini, 2021; first published 1984, Harper Business (author's organization site) As You Like It, Act 2, Scene 7 - William Shakespeare, c. 1599, Folger Shakespeare Library More Than Resisting Temptation: Beneficial Habits Mediate the Relationship Between Self-Control and Positive Life Outcomes - Brian Galla & Angela Duckworth, 2015, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology Wendy Wood – Publications - Wendy Wood, faculty web page, USC Dornsife Habits in Everyday Life: Thought, Emotion, and Action - Wendy Wood, Jeffrey Quinn & Deborah Kashy, 2002, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology Asaf Mazar - Asaf Mazar, personal website Alistair Brownlee | The Greatest to Ever Do It - World Triathlon, 2024, video, YouTube The Paradox of a Pair of Clocks. The Magic of Chronos and Kairos or Why I Wear Two Watches! - Brené Brown, 2026, social-media post (from an AMA), LinkedIn / The Curiosity Shop Quote Origin: Between Stimulus and Response There Is a Space. In That Space Is Our Power To Choose Our Response - O'Toole, 2018, Quote Investigator The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment - Eckhart Tolle, 1997, Namaste Publishing / New World Library (author site) 32% of Americans Have a Tattoo, Including 22% Who Have More Than One - Schaeffer & Dinesh, 2023, short-read survey report, Pew Research Center Prepared Environment - Association Montessori Internationale, glossary entry, AMI glossary Understanding the Three-Year Cycle in Montessori - Maria Rodriguez, web article, The Montessori Foundation Piagetian Theory - American Psychological Association, dictionary entry, APA Dictionary of Psychology For the Fun of It: Harnessing Immediate Rewards to Increase Persistence in Long-Term Goals - Kaitlin Woolley & Ayelet Fishbach, 2016, Journal of Consumer Research Mask-Wearing Needs to Be Easy, Understood and Expected - Duckworth, Ungar & Emanuel, 2020, op-ed reprint, Penn Almanac (original in The New York Times) Everyday Temptations: An Experience Sampling Study of Desire, Conflict, and Self-Control - Wilhelm Hofmann, Roy Baumeister, Georg Förster & Kathleen Vohs, 2012, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology Trait Self-Control and the Avoidance of Temptation - Michael Ent, Roy Baumeister & Dianne Tice, 2015, Personality and Individual Differences More Than Resisting Temptation: Beneficial Habits Mediate the Relationship Between Self-Control and Positive Life Outcomes - Brian Galla & Angela Duckworth, 2015, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology The Myth of Self-Control - Resnick, 2016, Vox The Power of Vulnerability - Brené Brown, 2010, TED Talk (video), TEDxHouston / TED Beyond Grit: The Science of Creativity, Purpose, and Motivation - Grant & Duckworth, 2016, published conversation, Next Big Idea Club Magazine Knee-Deep in the Big Muddy: A Study of Escalating Commitment to a Chosen Course of Action - Barry Staw, 1976, Organizational Behavior and Human Performance Hope (Psychology) - EBSCO, encyclopedia-style research overview, EBSCO Research Starters 'Grit' and Circumstance: Bestselling Author Angela Duckworth Brings Her Wisdom to BYU - Walch, 2023, Deseret News The Four Essential Elements of Successful Situations - Duckworth, 2026, book excerpt (online article), Knowledge at Wharton Workspace Disorder Does Not Influence Creativity and Executive Functions - Alberto Manzi, Yana Durmysheva, Shannon Pinegar, Andrew Rogers & Justine Ramos, 2019, Frontiers in Psychology A Perfect Mess: The Hidden Benefits of Disorder - Eric Abrahamson & David Freedman, 2007, Little, Brown (Goodreads listing) Physical Order Produces Healthy Choices, Generosity, and Conventionality, Whereas Disorder Produces Creativity - Kathleen Vohs, Joseph Redden & Ryan Rahinel, 2013, Psychological Science Documenting Anne Lamott - SFGate / San Francisco Chronicle (no byline), SFGate Genius of the AND - Jim Collins, concept page (with excerpts from Built to Last), JimCollins.com Self-Control and Grit: Related but Separable Determinants of Success - Angela Duckworth & James Gross, 2014, Current Directions in Psychological Science A Psychometric Evaluation of the Short Grit Scale - Oscar Gonzalez, Jessica Canning, Heather Smyth & David MacKinnon, 2020, European Journal of Psychological Assessment In 'Situated,' Angela Duckworth, the Author of 'Grit,' Does an About-Face - O'Gieblyn, 2026, The New Yorker How Willpower Wasn't: The Truth About Ego Depletion - Danvers, 2020, blog post ('How Do You Know?'), Psychology Today A Multisite Preregistered Paradigmatic Test of the Ego-Depletion Effect - Kathleen Vohs and colleagues, 2021, Psychological Science The Impact of Sleep Interventions on Athletic Performance: A Systematic Review - Lúcio Cunha and colleagues, 2023, Sports Medicine – Open The Attentional Cost of Receiving a Cell Phone Notification - Cary Stothart, Ainsley Mitchum & Courtney Yehnert, 2015, Journal of Experimental Psychology: Human Perception and Performance Wear Eye Protection When Playing Pickleball - Reena Mukamal, patient-education web article, American Academy of Ophthalmology Breaking Up with Perfectionism - Adam Grant with Eric Best, 2022, podcast episode, WorkLife with Adam Grant / TED Audio Collective Adam Grant on How to Reach New Heights - Wharton Magazine (no byline), 2023, Wharton Magazine Hidden Potential: The Science of Achieving Greater Things - Adam Grant, 2023, Viking (Penguin Random House page) Learn more about your ad choices. 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In this solo episode of The Curiosity Shop, Adam Grant answers questions about leadership, rethinking, careers, AI, and the future of work. He explores how leaders can make people feel heard without adopting every idea, why seeking feedback early can shape a transformational leader, and how to speak up in ways that actually create change. Adam also reflects on a hiring mistake that challenged his own thinking, explains why he’s changed his mind about tradition, and considers why political beliefs are so difficult to rethink. Along the way, he shares his perspective on the jobs most likely to preserve human connection in the age of AI, the benefits and limitations of remote and hybrid work, and how people can reshape and grow beyond their job descriptions. He also takes on a few lighter questions, sharing whether he still practices magic, his favorite food, and what he admires about Tom Brady. Be Careful What You Ask For: How Highly Inclusive Leaders Diminish Upward Communication Quality – John J. Sumanth, 2011, (doctoral dissertation) University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill / Carolina Digital Repository Does Having a Say Matter Only If You Get Your Way? Instrumental and Value-Expressive Effects of Employee Voice – McFarlin, D. B., & Sweeney, P. D., 1996, (journal article) Basic and Applied Social Psychology The Impact of Leader Eye Gaze on Disparity in Member Influence: Implications for Process and Performance in Diverse Groups – Shim, S.-H., et al., 2021, (journal article) Academy of Management Journal Feeling Seen: Leader Eye Gaze Promotes Psychological Safety, Participation, and Voice – Nicole Abi-Esber, Alison Wood Brooks & Ethan Burris, 2022, (working paper) Harvard Business School Working Paper About Katherine Phillips – Columbia Business School, (web page) Phillips Pathway for Inclusive Leadership Rocking the Boat but Keeping It Steady: The Role of Emotion Regulation in Employee Voice – Grant, A. M., 2013, (journal article) Academy of Management Journal  Win Over an Opponent by Asking for Advice – Liljenquist, K., & Galinsky, A. D., June 27, 2014, (magazine article) Harvard Business Review Give and Take: A Revolutionary Approach to Success – Adam Grant, 2013, (book) Viking I Have a Dream – Martin Luther King Jr., August 28, 1963, (speech video) Internet Archive Martin Luther King Jr., Man of the Year – TIME, January 3, 1964, (magazine cover story) TIME Early Recording Found of King's 'I Have a Dream' Speech – Montagne, R., August 17, 2015, (radio segment) NPR Morning Edition Feedback Seeking – Susan J. Ashford, (author research page) susanashford.com The Dynamics of Proactivity at Work – Grant, A. M., & Ashford, S. J., 2008, (journal article) Research in Organizational Behavior 28 Hidden Potential: The Science of Achieving Greater Things – Adam Grant, 2023, (book) Viking The Canary Code: A Guide to Neurodiversity, Dignity, and Intersectional Belonging at Work – Ludmila N. Praslova, 2024, (book) Berrett-Koehler Neurodiversity as a Competitive Advantage – Austin, R. D., & Pisano, G. P., May–June 2017, (magazine article) Harvard Business Review 95(3) Adam Grant: How Future-Ready Leaders Must Rethink the Work Day – Linda Lacina with Adam Grant, February 28, 2025, (podcast episode) Meet the Leader, World Economic Forum Vibe: The Secrets of Strong Connections in a Lonely World – Adam Grant, 2026, (book) Viking The Group Polarization Phenomenon – Myers, D. G., & Lamm, H., 1976, (journal article) Psychological Bulletin 83(4) The Law of Group Polarization – Sunstein, C. R., 2002, (preprint of journal article) Journal of Political Philosophy  Adam Grant – The Potential of Your Potential – The Imperfects, March 11, 2024, (card trick video) YouTube The Code Breaker: Jennifer Doudna, Gene Editing, and the Future of the Human Race – Walter Isaacson, 2021, (book) Simon & Schuster What the Return-to-Office Debate Gets Wrong – Brené Brown & Adam Grant, April 30, 2026, (podcast episode video) The Curiosity Shop, YouTube Jennifer A. Doudna – Biographical – The Nobel Prize, 2020, (autobiographical essay) NobelPrize.org Tom Brady Improves 40-Yard Dash Time – NOBULL, September 19, 2024, (video) YouTube Tom Brady on the Art of Leading Teammates – Brady, T., & Nohria, N., September–October 2024, (magazine article) Harvard Business Review Hybrid Working From Home Improves Retention Without Damaging Performance – Bloom, N., Han, R., & Liang, J., 2024, (journal article) Nature What the Data Says About Pandemic School Closures, Four Years Later – Mervosh, S., Miller, C. C., & Paris, F., March 18, 2024, (newspaper article) The New York Times, The Upshot The Consequences of Remote and Hybrid Instruction During the Pandemic – Dan Goldhaber, Thomas J. Kane, Andrew McEachin, Emily Morton, Tyler Patterson & Douglas O. Staiger, 2022, (working paper) CALDER Working Paper  Crafting a Job: Revisioning Employees as Active Crafters of Their Work – Wrzesniewski, A., & Dutton, J. E., 2001, (journal article) Academy of Management Review Managing Yourself: Turn the Job You Have Into the Job You Want – Wrzesniewski, A., Berg, J. M., & Dutton, J. E., June 2010, (magazine article) Harvard Business Review 88(6) Job Crafting Exercise – Center for Positive Organizations, University of Michigan Ross School of Business, (tool / web page) positiveorgs.bus.umich.edu Getting Unstuck: The Effects of Growth Mindsets About the Self and Job on Happiness at Work – Berg, J. M., et al., 2023, (journal article) Journal of Applied Psychology Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Does conflict really have the power to bring us closer together? In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, facilitator and author Priya Parker joins Brené Brown and Adam Grant to rethink how we approach conflict. Drawing from her new book, The Art of Fighting, Priya explores why avoiding conflict can create distance in our relationships, how “healthy heat” differs from destructive conflict, and why practicing disagreement when the stakes are low can prepare us for the conversations that matter most. Together, they unpack toxic politeness and why meaningful relationships require us to embrace discomfort instead of avoiding it. They also explore how preparation and collective humanity can be powerful tools to de-escalate conflict. The conversation leads Brené and Adam to reflect on their own history and how some of their hardest conversations have ultimately deepened their friendship. About Priya Parker | Her Story – Priya Parker,  priyaparker.com (web page) The Art of Gathering: How We Meet and Why It Matters – Priya Parker, 2018, Riverhead Books (book) Brené with Priya Parker on The Art of Gathering – Brené Brown and Priya Parker, 2020, Unlocking Us (podcast episode) Brené with Priya Parker on How We Return and Why It Matters, Part 1 of 2 – Brené Brown and Priya Parker, 2021, Dare to Lead (podcast episode) Brené and Adam on What They Will Never Agree On – Brené Brown and Adam Grant, 2026, The Curiosity Shop (video/podcast episode, YouTube) Task versus relationship conflict, team performance, and team member satisfaction: A meta-analysis – Carsten K. W. De Dreu and Laurie R. Weingart, 2003, Journal of Applied Psychology (journal article) The Science of Productive Conflict – Adam Grant, 2021, WorkLife with Adam Grant (video episode, YouTube) Heat is relevance (and other things I've learned about healthy heat) – Priya Parker, 2026, Group Life (newsletter post, Substack) Group Life – Priya Parker, n.d., Substack (newsletter) Prentis Hemphill – Prentis Hemphill, n.d., prentishemphill.com (personal website) Clear Is Kind. Unclear Is Unkind. – Brené Brown, 2018, brenebrown.com (article) Working at Canlis – Canlis, n.d., canlis.com (careers page) Do I stay or do I go? – Priya Parker, 2026, Group Life (newsletter post, Substack) Why Avoiding Conflict Is Actually Hurting Your Relationships | Priya Parker on 'The Interview' – The New York Times, 2026, YouTube (video) Festivus: The Airing of Grievances – Seinfeld, “The Strike,” 1997, YouTube (video clip) The Rituals Of Reality TV Reunions: An In-Depth Examination – Gibson Johns, 2024, Betches (article) Resources – Conscious Leadership Group,  conscious.is (resource library) Fairy Tales and Script Drama Analysis – Stephen B. Karpman, 1968, Transactional Analysis Bulletin (journal article) How to Use the Drama Triangle at Work – Conscious Leadership Group, n.d., conscious.is (blog post) Martin B. Copenhaver – The Christian Century,  christiancentury.org (contributor page) The Rev. Martin  B. Copenhaver: "Divided We Stand" – Martin B. Copenhaver, 2007, Washington National Cathedral (sermon) Open and Affirming – UCC Open and Affirming Coalition, openandaffirming.org (organisation page) Open and Affirming – United Church of Christ, n.d., ucc.org (denomination page) Robert's Rules of Order – Henry M. Robert, 1876, Project Gutenberg (book) Zohran Mamdani Campaign Rally, United Palace, Washington Heights – uploader not confirmed, 2025, YouTube (video, deep link at 7:41) The Persuaders: At the Front Lines of the Fight for Hearts, Minds, and Democracy – Anand Giridharadas, 2022, Knopf (book) Remembering Hal Saunders, Founder and Mentor – Sustained Dialogue Institute, 2016, sustaineddialogue.org (memorial notice) Man in the Mirror: Hope, Struggle, and Belonging in an American City – Anand Giridharadas, 2026, Knopf / Penguin Random House (book) The 12 New Books to Spice Up Your Fall – Adam Grant, 2026, Granted (newsletter post, Substack) The Story Rumble Process: A Guide for Groups and Teams – Brené Brown, 2018, brenebrown.com (downloadable resource) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Primatologist Aaron Sandel has spent over a decade studying the Ngogo chimpanzees, witnessing one of the largest known chimp communities split into two factions. In this episode, Aaron joins Brené and Adam to explore what chimpanzees can teach us about friendship, conflict, belonging, and human nature. He shares what he learned from watching these chimps show affection, navigate dominance hierarchies, and face the effects of division within their own community.  Aaron also reflects on what it was like to watch chimps he knew by name turn against one another, while exploring the surprising depth of bonds between chimpanzees. Together, they explore the parallels between chimpanzee behavior and the ways we harmonize, polarize, and build communities in our own lives. Prof. Aaron Sandel – Aaron Sandel, aaron-sandel.com The Ngogo Chimpanzee Project – Watts, D., et al., ngogochimpanzeeproject.org Male-Male Relationships and the Transition to Adulthood in Chimpanzees – Sandel, A., 2017, University of Michigan (PhD Dissertation) First Clearly Documented Split in World’s Largest Known Chimpanzee Community Leads to Deadly Violence – Erin Walters, April 9, 2026, UT Austin News Lethal Conflict After Group Fission in Wild Chimpanzees – Sandel, A., et al., 2026, Science Hunting Behavior of Chimpanzees at Ngogo, Kibale National Park, Uganda – Watts, D. & Mitani, J., 2002, International Journal of Primatology Is a chimp a monkey? – Catherine Annau & Tatiana Hayek, January 4, 2017, Jane Goodall Institute Canada Chimp Empire – Directed by James Reed, narrated by Mahershala Ali, April 19, 2023, Netflix (Documentary Series) Chimp Empire | Mahershala Ali | Official Trailer – Netflix, March 22, 2023, YouTube (Video) Conflicted Opinion: Yale Chimpanzee Expert Weighs In on 'Chimp Empire' – Mike Cummings, June 8, 2023, YaleNews Which Chimp Is Which in Chimp Empire? – Netflix, April 26, 2023, Netflix Tudum What Happened to the Chimps in ‘Chimp Empire?’ – Netflix Tudum, May 2, 2023, Netflix Kibale National Park – Google, Google Maps (Map) Kibale National Park – Kibale Chimpanzee Project, Harvard University Uganda Wildlife Authority – Uganda Wildlife Authority, ugandawildlife.org Atlas of the Heart: Mapping Meaningful Connection and the Language of Human Experience – Brené Brown, 2021, brenebrown.com (Book) The Social Self: On Being the Same and Different at the Same Time – Brewer, M., 1991, Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin How Was Chimp Empire Made? – Netflix Tudum, May 2, 2023, Netflix Male Chimpanzees Form Enduring and Equitable Social Bonds – Mitani, J., 2009, Animal Behaviour My Life Among the Apes – Mitani, J., 2020, American Journal of Primatology Rise of the Warrior Apes – James Reed (Director), 2017, KEO Films (Film - Prequel to Chimp Empire) Most VIOLENT Chimpanzee Society Ever Discovered | Rise of the Warrior Apes – Discovery Australia, February 16, 2018, YouTube (Video) What a Chimpanzee ‘Civil War’ Can Teach Us About How Societies Fall Apart – Nathan Rott, April 13, 2026, NPR Lethal Aggression in Pan Is Better Explained by Adaptive Strategies Than Human Impacts – Wilson, M., et al., 2014, Nature Intergroup Aggression in Chimpanzees and War in Nomadic Hunter-Gatherers: Evaluating the Chimpanzee Model – Wrangham, R. & Glowacki, L., 2012, Human Nature UT Researchers Find Polarization, Lethal Conflict Among Chimpanzees – Khoi Nguyen, April 21, 2026, The Daily Texan Adolescent Male Chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes) Form Social Bonds With Their Brothers and Others During the Transition to Adulthood – Sandel, A., et al., 2020, American Journal of Primatology Glimpses of Fatherhood Found in Non-Pair-Bonding Chimps – University of Texas at Austin, January 15, 2020, ScienceDaily Human Respiratory Viruses Continue to Spread in Wild Chimpanzees – University of Wisconsin School of Veterinary Medicine, January 2019, UW-Madison Daring Greatly: How the Courage to Be Vulnerable Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead – Brené Brown, 2012, brenebrown.com (Book) Anthropomorphism and Anthropodenial: Consistency in Our Thinking About Humans and Other Animals – de Waal, F., 1999, Philosophical Topics Are We Smart Enough to Know How Smart Animals Are? – Frans de Waal, 2016, W. W. Norton (Book) Constraints on Relationship Formation Among Female Primates – Barrett, L. & Henzi, S., 2002, Behaviour The Nicomachean Ethics of Aristotle – Aristotle, translated by F. H. Peters, 1893, Project Gutenberg (Book) Think Your Adolescence Was Hard? Try Being a Chimp – Harvard Gazette, May 21, 2026, Harvard University Social Relationships Between Chimpanzee Sons and Mothers Endure but Change – Reddy, R. & Sandel, A., 2020, Behavioral Ecology and Sociobiology Puberty Initiates a Unique Stage of Social Learning and Development Prior to Adulthood: Insights From Studies of Adolescence in Wild Chimpanzees – Reddy, R., et al., 2022, Developmental Cognitive Neuroscience Male–Male Relationships in Chimpanzees and the Evolution of Human Pair Bonds – Sandel, A., 2023, Evolutionary Anthropology Romantic Love in Humans May Have Evolved From Same-Sex Friendship – Lauren Macknight, June 7, 2023, Phys.org ‘It’s Like ‘Game of Thrones’’: Otter Clans Wage War Over Space in Singapore – Maina Chen, October 25, 2021, Yahoo News Conservation – The Ngogo Chimpanzee Project, ngogochimpanzeeproject.org Mass Communication and Para-Social Interaction: Observations on Intimacy at a Distance – Donald Horton & R. Richard Wohl, 1956, Psychiatry 19(3):215-229  Think Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don’t Know – Adam Grant, 2021, adamgrant.net (Book) Callings – Amy Wrzesniewski, 2010, September 1, 2010, The Oxford Handbook of Positive Organizational Scholarship Unpacking Emotion Differentiation: Transforming Unpleasant Experience by Perceiving Distinctions in Negativity – Kashdan, T., et al., 2015, Current Directions in Psychological Science How Emotions Are Made: The Secret Life of the Brain – Lisa Feldman Barrett, 2017, Houghton Mifflin Harcourt (Book) Does Language Do More Than Communicate Emotion? – Lindquist, K., et al., 2015, Current Directions in Psychological Science Brené Brown Says You’re Doing Feelings Wrong – Dan Harris, April 2022, Ten Percent Happier (Podcast) Ancestral Diversity – Niedenthal Emotions Lab, University of Wisconsin–Madison Great Ape Gestures: Intentional Communication With a Rich Set of Innate Signals – Byrne, R., et al., 2017, Animal Cognition Towards a Great Ape Dictionary: Inexperienced Humans Understand Common Nonhuman Ape Gestures – Graham, K. & Hobaiter, C., 2023, PLOS Biology Learn more about your ad choices. 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What happens to integrity when cheating becomes easier and the world seems to reward people for cutting corners? In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, Adam shares what happened when he discovered that students were planning to use AI to cheat on an exam. Brené and Adam move into a much larger conversation about honesty, character, and moral identity. Together, they explore when using AI is inherently cheating, why monitoring people isn’t enough to make them trustworthy, the difference between shame and adaptive guilt, and what research reveals about building a stronger moral compass. They also unpack why honor codes can sometimes backfire, how inconsistent accountability undermines trust, and what dimension of character we often overlook. Ultimately, Brené and Adam explore the difference between wanting to be seen as a good person and choosing to become the kind of person who does the right thing even when no one else is watching. There’s Really Only One Way to Stop Students From Cheating – Adam Grant, August 26, 2026, The New York Times Cheating: Why Students Do It and How We Can Help Them Stop – Donald McCabe, 2001, American Educator Brené Brown: The Rage Bucket Theory – Trevor Noah, June 4, 2026, What Now? with Trevor Noah Adam Grant Gives Trevor an Intellectual Wedgie – Trevor Noah, August 2024, What Now? with Trevor Noah Pickleball Line Rules: Calling the Ball “In” or “Out” – PlayPickleball.com, July 31, 2024, YouTube Cheating in the Age of Generative AI: A High School Survey Study of Cheating Behaviors Before and After the Release of ChatGPT – Lee et al., 2024, Computers and Education: Artificial Intelligence Addressing Academic Dishonesty in Higher Education: A Systematic Review of Generative AI’s Impact – Sharma & Panja, 2025, Open Praxis As Schools Reconsider Cursive, Research Homes in on Handwriting’s Brain Benefits – Jonathan Lambert, May 11, 2024, NPR How Learning Handwriting Trains the Brain: The Science Behind the Cursive Wars – Mariana Lenharo, February 2, 2026, Nature The Importance of Cursive Handwriting Over Typewriting for Learning in the Classroom – Ose Askvik et al., 2020, Frontiers in Psychology Why Cursive Handwriting Is Good for Your Brain – Christopher Bergland, October 2, 2020, Psychology Today The Effects of Handwriting Experience on Functional Brain Development in Pre-Literate Children – James & Engelhardt, 2012, Trends in Neuroscience and Education How Handwriting Trains the Brain – Gwendolyn Bounds, October 5, 2010, The Wall Street Journal The Self-Importance of Moral Identity – Aquino & Reed, 2002, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology Does Moral Identity Effectively Predict Moral Behavior? A Meta-Analysis – Hertz & Krettenauer, 2016, Review of General Psychology Competition and Cheating: Investigating the Role of Moral Awareness, Moral Identity, and Moral Elevation – Vadera & Pathki, 2021, Journal of Organizational Behavior Moral Emotions and Moral Behavior – Tangney et al., 2007, Annual Review of Psychology Shame and Guilt – Tangney & Dearing, 2002, Guilford Press Shame, Guilt, and Depressive Symptoms: A Meta-Analytic Review – Kim et al., 2011, Psychological Bulletin Shame v. Guilt – Brené Brown, January 14, 2013, brenebrown.com Protecting Our Attention, Time and Humanity in a World That Won’t Slow Down – Brené Brown, August 20, 2026, The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant Effectiveness of Ex Ante Honesty Oaths in Reducing Dishonesty Depends on Content – Zickfeld et al., 2025, Nature Human Behaviour Committed Dishonesty: A Systematic Meta-Analysis of the Effect of Social Commitment on Dishonest Behavior – Zickfeld et al., 2024, Psychological Bulletin Detecting and Preventing Cheating in Exams: Evidence From a Field Experiment – Cagala et al., 2024, Journal of Human Resources The Honor Committee – University of Virginia, honor.virginia.edu Effects of Honor Code Reminders on University Students’ Cheating in Unproctored Exams – Zhao et al., 2023, Contemporary Educational Psychology Honor Codes and Other Contextual Influences on Academic Integrity: A Replication and Extension to Modified Honor Code Settings – McCabe et al., 2002, Research in Higher Education Academic Dishonesty: Honor Codes and Other Contextual Influences – McCabe & Treviño, 1993, Journal of Higher Education Bicentennial Analysis – UVA Honor Committee, 2019, University of Virginia Culture Is Not the Problem. Tolerated Behaviour Is. – John Amaechi, February 15, 2026, Giant! with John Amaechi Making a Pledge Can Encourage Honest Behavior—If the Wording Is Right – Simon Makin, Scientific American, February 26, 2025, Scientific American "Do or do not. There is no try” - Yoda, The Empire Strikes Back, Screenplay by Leigh Brackett and Lawrence Kasdan, 1980,  [Video] YouTube  I Solemnly Swear I’m Up to Good: A Megastudy Investigating the Effectiveness of Honesty Oaths on Curbing Dishonesty – Zickfeld et al., 2024, HAL Preprint Trump Reports Over $1 Billion in Income From Crypto Ventures – TIME, June 30, 2026, TIME Now Available: The President’s and Vice President’s Public Financial Disclosure Reports – U.S. Office of Government Ethics, 2026, U.S. Office of Government Ethics Stop Trading on Congressional Knowledge Act of 2012 – U.S. Congress, 2012, Pub. L. No. 112-105 This Is Your Brain on Drugs – Partnership for a Drug-Free America, 1987, YouTube Project D.A.R.E. Outcome Effectiveness Revisited – West & O’Neal, 2004, American Journal of Public Health New Approaches to Youth Substance Misuse – American Psychological Association, March 2024, Monitor on Psychology Beyond Pleasure and Pain – Higgins, 1997, American Psychologist Self-Discrepancy: A Theory Relating Self and Affect – Higgins, 1987, Psychological Review Possible Selves – Markus & Nurius, 1986, American Psychologist Unwanted Identities: A Key Variable in Shame–Anger Links and Gender Differences in Shame – Ferguson et al., 2000, Sex Roles Shame Resilience Theory: A Grounded Theory Study on Women and Shame – Brown, 2006, Families in Society The BRAVING Inventory – Brené Brown, brenebrown.com An Integrative Model of Organizational Trust – Mayer et al., 1995, Academy of Management Review The Halo Effect: Evidence for Unconscious Alteration of Judgments – Nisbett & Wilson, 1977, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology Integrity Is Choosing Courage Over Comfort – Brené Brown, brenebrown.com The Self-Importance of Moral Identity – Aquino & Reed, 2002, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology The Optics of Lying: How Pursuing an Honest Social Image Shapes Dishonest Behavior – Guzikevits & Choshen-Hillel, 2022, Current Opinion in Psychology Atomic Habits: An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones – James Clear, 2018, Avery Learn more about your ad choices. 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In this solo episode of The Curiosity Shop, Brené Brown turns to questions and comments from her LinkedIn community to explore what it means to protect our humanity and attention in a world moving faster than ever. She digs into where AI can support our work without replacing human discernment, why "work slop" costs leaders real cognitive bandwidth, and how leaders can tell the difference between polished output and actual understanding. Brené also unpacks Aiko Bethea's idea that transformation requires grief, reflects on what her conversation with Rebecca Lowe revealed about preparation and presence, and explores how pausing and active listening are essential parts of meaningful conversation. Along the way, she explains why she wears two watches and shares the story of getting fired from a house-cleaning job… and the unexpected lesson it taught her about why shiny can never replace mastery. Brené Brown — Brené Brown, LinkedIn (Profile) Adam Grant — Adam Grant, LinkedIn (Profile) AI, Commencement Speeches, and Why Human Thinking Still Matters — Brené Brown & Adam Grant, June 11, 2026, The Curiosity Shop (Podcast) The Rise, Fall, and Surprising Survival of WordPerfect — Jonathan Scott, January 15, 2023, Retro Tech Reads (Post) Why Do Podcasters Wear Headphones While Sitting Next To Each Other? — Ray Malik, January 25, 2025, How-To Geek (Article) AI-Generated “Workslop” Is Destroying Productivity — Kate Niederhoffer et al., September 22, 2025, Harvard Business Review On Death and Dying — Elisabeth Kübler-Ross, 1969, Macmillan (Book) Stages of Grief Portrayed on the Internet: A Systematic Analysis and Critical Appraisal — Kate Anne Avis et al., 2021, Frontiers in Psychology Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit — Brené Brown, 2025, Random House (Book) Multitasking: Switching Costs — American Psychological Association, 2006, APA Center for Humane Technology — Center for Humane Technology, humanetech.com Brené with Father Richard Rohr on Breathing Under Water, Falling Upward, and Unlearning Certainty, Part 1 of 2 — Brené Brown, 2022, Unlocking Us (Podcast) Brené with Father Richard Rohr on Breathing Under Water, Falling Upward, and Unlearning Certainty, Part 2 of 2 — Brené Brown, 2022, Unlocking Us (Podcast) The Two Halves of Life With Brené Brown — Center for Action and Contemplation, 2024, Everything Belongs (Podcast) Falling Upward: A Spirituality for the Two Halves of Life — Richard Rohr, 2024, John Wiley & Sons (Book) Kairos: The Right Moment or Occasion — Barbara Baert, Institute for Advanced Study The History of the Elgin National Watch Company — Times Ticking, timesticking.com Aiko Bethea — Aiko Bethea, aikobethea.com RARE Coaching & Consulting — Aiko Bethea, rarecoaching.net Brené with Aiko Bethea on Inclusivity at Work: The Heart of Hard Conversations — Brené Brown, 2020, Dare to Lead (Podcast) Stop Outsourcing Your Judgement: Brené Brown in Conversation with Leadership Coach Aiko Bethea — Brené Brown, April 21, 2026, Fast Company Psychological Safety and Learning Behavior in Work Teams — Amy C. Edmondson, 1999, Administrative Science Quarterly, 44(2) The Fearless Organization: Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Learning, Innovation, and Growth — Amy C. Edmondson, 2018, Wiley (Book) Systems Thinking Resources (The Iceberg Model) — The Donella Meadows Project, Academy for Systems Change Rebecca Lowe Bio & Career Accomplishments — FOX Sports, FOX Sports Brené with President Barack Obama on Leadership, Family, and Service — Brené Brown, 2020, Dare to Lead (Podcast) Brené with Brandi Carlile on Music, Mysticism, and Broken Horses — Brené Brown, 2021, Unlocking Us (Podcast) Brené with Bono on Songs of Surrender and Carrying the Weight of Our Contradictions, Part 1 of 2 — Brené Brown, 2023, Unlocking Us (Podcast) Dare to Lead Hub — Brené Brown, brenebrown.com Brené with Barrett Guillen on The Hardest Feedback I've Ever Received, Part 1 of 2 — Brené Brown, 2021, Dare to Lead (Podcast) The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant — YouTube (Channel) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Is it possible to build a community without a 'them'? Author, YouTuber, and podcaster John Green joins Brené Brown and Adam Grant for a wide-ranging conversation on belonging, friendship, and the systems that shape our lives. Together, they explore why sports can create such powerful communities, whether it’s possible to build an “us” without needing a “them,” and why shared projects can help relationships last for decades. John reflects on the challenges of young adulthood, what he learned from working as a hospital chaplain, and why supporting someone in pain sometimes means resisting the urge to fix it. The conversation also moves through why frictionless access, not just awareness, is essential to helping people get the care they need, the role coaches can play in athletes’ well-being, and John’s upcoming novel Hollywood, Ending. Hollywood, Ending - John Green, September, 2026, hollywoodendingbook.com CrashCourse - Hank Green & John Green, YouTube  Demonic males: Apes and the origins of human violence - Wrangham & Peterson, 1996, Houghton Mifflin. The Descent of Man, and Selection in Relation to Sex - Charles Darwin, 1871/1999, Project Gutenberg Not Like Me = Bad: Infants Prefer Those Who Harm Dissimilar Others - J. Kiley Hamlin, 2013, Psychological Science The Social Self: On Being the Same and Different at the Same Time - Marilynn B. Brewer, 1991, Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin The Away End - Episode 1: John Green & Daniel Alarcon Dissect the 2026 World Cup Draw - The Away End, 2026, YouTube Roger Bennett – Men in Blazers Media Network Developmental Sequence in Small Groups - Bruce W. Tuckman, 1965, Psychological Bulletin The Places That Scare You: A Guide to Fearlessness in Difficult Times - Pema Chodron, 2002, Shambhala The Framework for Leading With Both Care and Accountability - Brené Brown, 2026, The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant "The Fault in Our Stars" Author John Green on Reaching Young Adults and Dealing With Mental Illness - CBS News, 2020, 60 Minutes (CBS News) The Social Determinants of Mental Health and Disorder: Evidence, Prevention and Recommendations - James B. Kirkbride, 2024, World Psychiatry Single-Session Interventions for Mental Health Problems and Service Engagement: Umbrella Review of Systematic Reviews and Meta-Analyses - Jessica Schleider et al., 2025, Annual Review of Clinical PsychologyAdministrative Burdens in the Social Safety Net - Herd and Moynihan, 2024, Journal of Economic Perspectives Perceived Barriers and Facilitators to Mental Health Help-Seeking in Young People: A Systematic Review - Gulliver, Griffiths & Christensen, 2010, BMC Psychiatry The Inverse Care Law - Julian Tudor Hart, 1971, The Lancet Rebooting Psychotherapy Research and Practice to Reduce the Burden of Mental Illness - Alan E. Kazdin & Stacey L. Blase, 2011, Perspectives on Psychological ScienceAre Mental Health Awareness Efforts Contributing to the Rise in Reported Mental Health Problems? A Call to Test the Prevalence Inflation Hypothesis - Lucy Foulkes & Jack L. Andrews, 2023, New Ideas in Psychology  How Coaches Can Be a Source of Mental Health Support for Student-Athletes - Madeline Will, 2024, Education Week Meet the Genius Behind America’s Best Roadside Attraction - Show and Tell, Atlas Obscura, YouTube Kate Bowler - Kate Bowler, katebowler.com How the Intention to Share Can Undermine Enjoyment: Photo-Taking Goals and Evaluation of Experiences - Alixandra Barasch, 2018, Journal of Consumer Research Optimal Distinctiveness Theory: A Framework for Social Identity, Social Cognition, and Intergroup Relations - Geoffrey J. Leonardelli, 2010, Advances in Experimental Social Psychology Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What does it take to stay calm when millions are watching? Rebecca Lowe, the host of NBC’s Premier League coverage and Fox’s record-breaking 2026 World Cup broadcast, joins Brené Brown and Adam Grant to explore why preparation—not confidence—is her real superpower; the weight of being one of the only women in the room; and what it really means to lead when things get chaotic. Together, they unpack the difference between presence and preparedness, the “permission slip” moment that defines great leadership, and why the loudest person in the room isn’t always the one in charge. Along the way, Rebecca reflects on breaking barriers in a male-dominated industry, how she earns trust from personalities like Zlatan Ibrahimović, and the teachable habit she uses to keep her co-hosts focused on live TV.  The Return of Coach Lasso – NBC Sports, 2014, YouTube Nessun Dorma, Rome 1990 – Luciano Pavarotti, 1990, YouTube Double Standards for Competence – Martha Foschi, 2000, Annual Review of Sociology "Executive Presence" Is Overrated – Adam Grant & Brené Brown, 2025, Instagram Entrepreneur Passion and Preparedness in Business Plan Presentations – Xiao-Ping Chen, 2009, Academy of Management Journal Beyond Nine to Five – Lieke ten Brummelhuis, 2017, Academy of Management Discoveries Building atomic habits with James Clear –  Adam Grant (Host), July 21, 2023, ReThinking with Adam Grant Can Your Employees Really Speak Freely? – James Detert, 2016, Harvard Business Review Trailblazing Motivation and Marginalized Group Members – Karren Knowlton, 2025, Organization Science Bullet Time Effect in "Sherlock" the BBC TV Series – Moffat & Gattiss, January 14,  2014, BBC/YouTube Conversational Style – Deborah Tannen, 2005, Oxford University Press Who Won't Shut Up in Meetings? – Adam Grant, 2021, The Washington Post Dare to Lead read-along workbook (Permission Slips) – Brené Brown, 2021, Brené Brown, LLC Tell Me What I Did Wrong – Stacey Finkelstein, 2012, Journal of Consumer Research Emotional Contagion – Elaine Hatfield, 1993, Current Directions in Psychological Science Huge If True – Cleo Abram, YouTube Range – David Epstein, 2019, Riverhead Books The science of performing under pressure with Sian Beilock – Adam Grant (Host), March 28, 2023, ReThinking with Adam Grant (“Twisties” discussion at 8:50)  Hidden Potential – Adam Grant, 2023, Viking What Being Sober Has Meant to Me – Brené Brown, 2019, brenebrown.com The Gifts of Imperfection – Brené Brown, 2010, Hazelden Publishing Positive Conceptions of Perfectionism – Joachim Stoeber, 2006, Personality and Social Psychology Review The Queen Bee Phenomenon – Belle Derks, 2016, The Leadership Quarterly Some Effects of Proportions on Group Life: Skewed Sex Ratios and Responses to Token Women – Rosabeth Moss Kanter, 1977, American Journal of Sociology Demarginalizing the Intersection of Race and Sex – Kimberlé Crenshaw, 1989, University of Chicago Legal Forum Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Why do sports make us cry, unite strangers, and create memories that last a lifetime? In this episode, Men in Blazers founder and CEO Roger Bennett joins Brené Brown and Adam Grant fresh off a 39-day World Cup marathon to explore what the tournament revealed about identity, belonging, and the power of collective effervescence. Together, they unpack the difference between hero players and hero teams, what it means to be a true fan, the political complexities surrounding the World Cup, and how sports create shared experiences that shape our lives. Along the way, Roger shares stories from the road, reflects on the strange grief of “World Cup withdrawal,” and revisits some of the tournament’s most memorable stories, including Erling Haaland’s taxidermy shop detour, the Cape Verde goalkeeper who became a global icon overnight, the controversial red card reversal, and more. Roger Bennett – Men in Blazers Media Network The Englishman Who Became America’s No. 1 Soccer Fan – David Waldstein, July 16, 2026, The New York Times Men in Blazers’ Roger Bennett Eats Two Dinners During the World Cup “Chicken-tinga burros are the Messi of burros.” –  Ben Widdicombe, July 17, 2026, New York Magazine  Brené Brown on Surrounding Yourself With People Who Take Pleasure in Your Joy (Schadenfreude vs. Freudenfreude) – Ellen DeGeneres, April 1, 2022, TheEllenShow Premier League to bring all 20 clubs to U.S. in activation after 2026 World Cup – Victoria Hernandez, July 23, 2026, Yahoo Sports The Kansas City fanwalk had us all like… – OnsOranje, Royal Dutch Football Association The Numbers Game: Why Everything You Know About Football Is Wrong – Anderson & Sally, 2013, Penguin  Men in Blazers - “The Women’s Game” and “Vamos” (Platform links) – The Men in Blazers Media Network New Volume Edited by Phil Smith and Sébastien Tutenges: Collective Effervescence – 2026, Yale Center for Cultural Sociology ROG’s Heartbreaking Farewell and Stunning Comeback at Goodison Park (Everton) – Roger Bennett, 2026, YouTube Brené Brown: The Power of Vulnerability & Joy in Liverpool! – Roger Bennett, April, 2025, Men in Blazers (Interview) Anfield sings 'You'll Never Walk Alone' to kick off new season – NBC Sports, August 15, 2025, YouTube We Are the World (Cup): A Personal History of the World's Greatest Sporting Event – Roger Bennett, 2026, HarperCollins Who Belongs? Football and the Reinvention of the Modern Nation – Josh Wilson, 2026, TIME The definition of a true fan – Adam Grant, Instagram Folarin Balogun's lifted suspension – Roger Bennett, CBS Morning News, Instagram This is so awkward: Modern puberty explained – Cara Natterson & Vanessa Kroll Bennett, 2023, Rodale Books Human challenges in polar and space environments – Sandal et al., 2006, Springer Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit – Brené Brown, 2025, Random House Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is a master class in coaching as Aiko Bethea, one of the most respected senior leadership coaches in the country, takes Brené through a current leadership conflict in real time, showing just how hard it is to slow down and lead from your values instead of your urgency. The coaching session is underpinned by Aiko's new "Anchored, Aligned, and Accountable" framework that focuses on why self-leadership is so critical in today's complex operating environment. Together, they dig into the difference between assuming good intent and believing someone is doing the best they can, and why that distinction changes what accountability actually looks like in practice. Aiko also introduces and models the powerful coaching practice of "three levels of listening" and how it's central to developing a coaching mindset. Aiko Bethea — Aiko Bethea, aikobethea.com Dare to Lead Hub — Brené Brown, brenebrown.com Audre Lorde — Mariana Brandman, 2021, National Women's History Museum bell hooks — Asami Robledo-Allen Yamamoto, 2025, National Women's History Museum RARE Coaching | Aiko Bethea (@rare_coach) — Aiko Bethea, n.d., Instagram Psychological Safety and Learning Behavior in Work Teams — Amy Edmondson, 1999, Administrative Science Quarterly This Is Our Reminder of What Courageous Leadership Looks Like — Brené Brown, 2026, LinkedIn One of the Greatest Joys of My Career Has Been… — Brené Brown, 2026, LinkedIn Futurist Amy Webb on What's Coming (and What's Here) — Brené Brown, 2024, Dare to Lead podcast Brené with Aiko Bethea on Inclusivity at Work: The Heart of Hard Conversations — Brené Brown, 2020, Dare to Lead podcast Rising Strong — Brené Brown, 2015, Random House Feeling Powerless at Work? Here's Where Your Agency Still Lives — Jessi Hempel, 2026, Hello Monday with Jessi Hempel Without Accountability, Just Throw It All Away — Aiko Bethea, 2023, LinkedIn (Street Lights newsletter) Post on Learning and Development (#learninganddevelopment) — Aiko Bethea, 2026, LinkedIn Dare to Lead — Brené Brown, 2018, Random House Stop Outsourcing Your Judgment: Brené Brown in Conversation with Leadership Coach Aiko Bethea — Brené Brown, 2026, Fast Company Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Previously released on Dare to Lead, this is part of a special six-part series with Adam Grant on Brené's book, Strong Ground. Brené and Adam unpack the difference between effort and excellence, why coaching matters more than judgment, and how unclear priorities can quietly derail even the hardest-working teams. From there the conversation moves further into prioritization, a consequential 2x2 decision-making framework, and how leaders inadvertently signal the wrong priorities through their emotional reactions. Circling back to effort, they also discuss why the first question leaders should ask when results fall short is whether they set their team up for success in the first place. Plus, Brené has a real-time realization that her own team may not be aligned on what's actually consequential. Think Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don't Know – Adam Grant, 2021, Viking Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit – Brené Brown, 2025, Random House No, You Don't Get an A for Effort – Adam Grant, 2024, The New York Times Mindset: The New Psychology of Success – Carol Dweck, 2006, Random House Praise for Intelligence Can Undermine Children's Motivation and Performance – Mueller & Dweck, 1998, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology What Having a “Growth Mindset” Actually Means – Carol Dweck, 2016, Harvard Business Review “Both/And” Leadership – Wendy Smith, 2016, Harvard Business Review Genius of the AND – Jim Collins, n.d., JimCollins.com Reversible and Irreversible Decisions – Shane Parrish, n.d., Farnam Street The Highly Sensitive Person: How to Thrive When the World Overwhelms You – Elaine Aron, 1996, Broadway Books Sensory-Processing Sensitivity and Its Relation to Introversion and Emotionality – Elaine Aron, 1997, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology Above/Below the Line Practice – Brené Brown, 2025, BrenéBrown.com Fairy Tales and Script Drama Analysis – Stephen Karpman, 1968, Transactional Analysis Bulletin (Origin paper for the villain/rescuer/victim model of conflict) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Previously released on Dare to Lead, this is part of a special six-part series with Adam Grant on Brené's book, Strong Ground. The conversation opens on time scarcity, the devaluation of future time, and whether hope is actually a strategy. From there they discuss how great leaders don't need all the right answers (just the right questions) and the difference between executive presence and pocket presence. While digging into how the five C's of delegation build the situational awareness and critical thinking that pocket presence requires, Adam has a breakthrough realization that pocket presence isn't just an individual skill, it's a collective capability. Executive presence, they agree, is "party of one." Resource Slack and Propensity to Discount Delayed Investments of Time Versus Money – Gal Zauberman, 2004, Journal of Experimental Psychology Time for Happiness – Ashley Whillans, 2019, Harvard Business Review Can We Afford to be Time Poor? The Hidden Tax of Time Poverty – Celestine Rosales, 2024, The Decision Lab The Will and the Ways – C. R. Snyder, 1991, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology Hope Theory: Rainbows in the Mind – C. R. Snyder, 2002, Psychological Inquiry Golden Eggs and Hyperbolic Discounting – David Laibson, 1997, The Quarterly Journal of Economics Some Empirical Evidence on Dynamic Inconsistency – Richard Thaler, 1981, Economics Letters Future Self-Continuity: How Conceptions of the Future Self Transform Intertemporal Choice – Hal Hershfield, 2011, Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences The stranger within: Connecting with our future selves – Cynthia Lee April 9, 2015, UCLA Newsroom We normally think of a weakness as a strength you lack, but it can also be a strength you overuse – Adam Grant, July 10, 2018, LinkedIn Stop Overdoing Your Strengths – Robert Kaplan, 2009, Harvard Business Review Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit – Brené Brown, 2025, Random House Research: Vague Feedback Is Holding Women Back – Shelley Correll, 2016, Harvard Business Review The New Rules of Executive Presence – Sylvia Ann Hewlett, 2024, Harvard Business Review Pocket Presence (Video) – Emmanuel Acho, n.d., TikTok Metacognition and Cognitive Monitoring: A New Area of Cognitive-Developmental Inquiry – Flavell, 1979, American Psychologist Essential social work theories & models – Syracuse University, n.d., OnlineGrad@Syracuse The 5 Cs of strategic thinking, decision making, and delegating – Brené Brown, n.d., brenebrown.com Atomic Habits – James Clear, 2018, Avery Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Previously released on Dare to Lead, this is part of a special six-part series with Adam Grant on Brené's book, Strong Ground. They dig into the Buddhist concept of near and far enemies- and why the biggest threat to your values isn't the opposite of them, it's what masquerades as them. From there they move into discussion around the value of paradoxical thinking, why some tensions aren't meant to be resolved, and why sports are leadership theater. Plus a conversation about why future time is always undervalued. Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit – Brené Brown, 2025, Random House The Near Enemies of the Heart – Jack Kornfield, n.d., jackkornfield.com Almost Everything: Notes on Hope – Anne Lamott, 2018, Riverhead Books (Chapter 2: “Inside Job”) 12 truths I learned from life and writing – Anne Lamott, July 13, 2017, TED (Video) Anne Lamott's thoughts on love, writing, and being judgy – Adam Grant (Host), April 16, 2024, ReThinking with Adam Grant, TED Audio Collective Genius of the AND – Jim Collins, n.d., jimcollins.com Exploration and Exploitation in Organizational Learning – James G. March, 1991, Organization Science Putting Feelings Into Words – Lieberman et al., 2007, Psychological Science How to Tame Reactive Emotions by Naming Them – Mitch Abblett, 2022, Psychology Today Maker's Schedule, Manager's Schedule – Paul Graham, 2009, paulgraham.com The Tush Push Explained – Kyle Brandt & Dr Neil DeGrasse Tyson, 2024, NFL (Video) Togethxr’s ‘Everyone Watches Women’s Sports’ T-shirts go viral – Callie Holtermann, June 28, 2024. The New York Times Dr. Linda Hill on leading with purpose in the digital age – Brené Brown (Host), April 18, 2022, In Dare to Lead, Vox Media The Pre-Mortem Method – Gary Klein, 2021, Psychology Today Golden Eggs and Hyperbolic Discounting – David Laibson, 1997, Quarterly Journal of Economics (PDF) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this Re:Thinking podcast episode recorded at Authors@Wharton, Brené joined Adam to dig into her book, Strong Ground. They explore why courage now has to mean being a learner instead of a knower, and why values aren't just what you care about-- they're what you sacrifice for. The conversation moves through the four skill sets of courage, why a value that isn't operationalized into behavior is just a poster with an eagle on it, and how to use the "story I'm making up" framework for hard conversations. They also get into executive presence, vulnerability, care, and why fake courage is easy to spot. Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit – Brené Brown, 2025, Random House Research – Brené Brown (n.d.). The discovery of grounded theory – Glaser & Strauss, 1967, Aldine Awareness of dying – Glaser & Strauss, 1965, Aldine De-tabooing dying control – Thulesius et al., 2013, BMC Palliative Care Never Split The Difference – Chris Voss, May 24, 2016, TEDx University of Nevada Expectancy Theory (Victor Vroom) – The Decision Lab, (n.d.) Dare to lead: List of values – Brené Brown, 2018 Dare to Lead Hub – Brené Brown Brené Brown brings Dare to Lead program to UT – University of Texas at Austin, 2020, UT News Neural processing of narratives – Jääskeläinen et al., 2020, Frontiers in Human Neuroscience The New Rules of Executive Presence – Sylvia Ann Hewlett, Jan-Feb 2024, Harvard Business Review The Gifts of Imperfection - Your Guide to a Wholehearted Life: 10th Anniversary Collection – Brené Brown, 2010 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, Brené Brown and Adam Grant sit down with their first-ever guest, Simon Sinek. Together, they explore the state of organizations globally, including the chaos hitting C-suites, the human cost of misaligned incentives, AI-driven layoffs, and leaders playing defense when they should be playing offense. They dig into what makes teams high-performing, why caring deeply about the people you lead isn't soft but essential, and what the military's culture of love and loyalty teaches us about business. The conversation also moves through nervous system regulation, shame and guilt in parenting and leadership, and what AI can or cannot replace about human connection. This episode is a reminder that the things we've been told to leave out of business, such as love, care, and human connection, may be the most important things we can bring to it. The Old Order Is Dead. Do Not Resuscitate — Sven Beckert, November 4, 2025, The New York Times A Friedman Doctrine — Milton Friedman, September 13, 1970, The New York Times Magazine The Man Who Broke Capitalism: How Jack Welch Gutted the Heartland and Crushed the Soul of Corporate America—and How to Undo His Legacy — David Gelles, 2022, Simon & Schuster ‘Take a simple idea and take it seriously’: Charlie Munger in his own words — Financial Times Jack Dorsey Blamed AI for 4,000 Layoffs. A Former Block Exec Says That’s Not the Real Story — Leila Sheridan, 2026, Inc. Brené Brown on values, vulnerability, and playing to win — Adam Grant, December 22, 2025, Knowledge at Wharton (Interview) Threat-Rigidity Effects in Organizational Behavior: A Multilevel Analysis — Barry M. Staw, 1981, Administrative Science Quarterly Finding our strong ground, part 1 of 6 [w guest Adam Grant] — Brené Brown, September 17, 2025, In Dare to Lead. Vox Media Podcast Network Start with Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action — Simon Sinek, 2009, Portfolio/Penguin The mental game of tennis: A scoping review and the introduction of the Resilience Racket Model — Konstantinou, G et al., 2025, Sports The Inner Game of Tennis — W. Timothy Gallwey, 1974, Random House Suppose We Took Groups Seriously… — Harold J. Leavitt, 1975, in Man and Work in Society Leaders Eat Last: Why Some Teams Pull Together and Others Don’t — Simon Sinek, 2014, Portfolio/Penguin Dare to Lead: Brave Work. Tough Conversations. Whole Hearts — Brené Brown, 2018, Random House The Fifth Discipline: The Art and Practice of the Learning Organization — Peter M. Senge, 1990, Doubleday/Currency Developing Brave Leaders and Courageous Cultures — Brené Brown, Dare to Lead hub The Infinite Game — Simon Sinek, 2019, Portfolio/Penguin Brené Brown: Focus on guilt instead of shame — 60 Minutes, March 29, 2020, YouTube Children’s Proneness to Shame and Guilt Predict Risky and Illegal Behaviors in Young Adulthood — Jeffrey Stuewig (lead), 2015, Child Psychiatry and Human Development The Altruistic Personality: Rescuers of Jews in Nazi Europe — Samuel P. Oliner & Pearl M. Oliner, 1988, Free Press The Toxic Handler: Organizational Hero—and Casualty — Frost & Robinson, 1999, Harvard Business Review Jensen Huang Says an Incorrect Nine-Year-Old Prediction About AI Shows Why It Won’t Destroy Jobs — CNBC, 2025, CNBC Relational Job Design and the Motivation to Make a Prosocial Difference — Adam M. Grant, 2007, Academy of Management Review Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, Brené Brown and Adam Grant use this year’s booed commencement speeches as a launching pad to explore the role of AI in our lives. They dig into what some of those commencement addresses were missing: moral imagination, emotional honesty, and real empathy for the graduates. Brené introduces the concept of being “smitten with what’s written,” the trap of polished AI output that looks good but fails to move anything forward, and unpacks why writing is a tool for thinking, not just communicating. Adam proposes that signing your name on AI-generated content is an integrity violation, and together they work through how to give feedback, set expectations, and stay human in the middle of a technological transformation.  Show Notes: George Saunders Reflects on his Famous Convocation Address at Syracuse University (2013) - George Saunders, 2023, Syracuse University College of Arts and Sciences Values and Messages Conveyed in College Commencement Speeches - Jenifer Partch & Richard Kinnier, 2011, Current Psychology Don’t Be Afraid to Fall - Brené Brown, 2020 University of Texas at Austin (Commencement Address) Make Your Bed – Admiral William H. McRaven, 2014 University of Texas at Austin (Commencement Address) Through Disappointment You Can Gain Clarity - Conan O'Brien, 2011, Dartmouth College (Commencement Address ) Be True to Yourself - Ellen DeGeneres, 2009 Tulane University (Commencement Address)) The Importance of Kindness - Steve Carell, 2025 Northwestern University (Commencement Address) Make Failure Your Fuel - Abby Wambach, 2018 Barnard College (Commencement Address) Wolfpack: How to Come Together, Unleash Our Power, and Change the Game – Abby Wambach, 2019, Celadon Books  2026 graduates boo commencement speeches on AI - Eric Schmidt (Former Google CEO) University of Arizona; Gloria Caulfield (Real estate executive) University of Central Florida: Scott Borchetta (Big Machine Records CEO) Middle Tennessee State University, May 2026, PBS NewsHour Exploring the Paradoxes of Human Nature: The Stockdale Paradox Explained, Brené Brown and Adam Grant, May 28, 2026, The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit - Brené Brown, 2025, Random House A Whole New Mind – Daniel Pink, 2005, Riverhead Books (source of 'Symphony') AI-Generated “Workslop” Is Destroying Productivity – Kate Niederhoffer et al. (BetterUp Labs & Stanford Social Media Lab), 2025, Harvard Business Review The Biggest Tell That Something Was Written by AI – Eve Fairbanks, 2026, The Atlantic Quote Origin: I Do Not Know What I Think Until I Read What I’m Writing - Quoteresearch, 2023, Quote Investigator  Dare to lead glossary: Key language, skills, tools, and practices (including “Paint Done”) - Brené Brown,  Pilots and Passengers – BetterUp Labs & Stanford Social Media Lab 2025, BetterUp The Ghost in the Machine’s Memory: A Teacher’s Lament - Hudson Mathew, 2026, AI & Society (A Socrates warning, voiced by Plato) The Enhanced Games – inaugural event May 24, 2026, Las Vegas (founder Aron D'Souza; doping-permitted competition) Atlas of AI – Kate Crawford, 2021, Yale University Press Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, Brené Brown and Adam Grant explore what happens when trust, vulnerability, grief, and performance collide. Using insights from the San Antonio Spurs and Gregg Popovich's leadership philosophy, they examine why caring deeply is an act of courage, how shame quietly undermines teams, families, and organizations, and how psychological safety fuels excellence. The conversation moves through ambition and rejection, miscarriage and loss, community, emotional intelligence and empathy, and the ways people show up for one another through life's hardest moments. This episode explores how strength and kindness are not opposites and why building cultures of trust may be one of the most important things we do. Victor Wembanyama on having Spurs legend David Robinson and Tim Duncan in the building - 2026, Yahoo Sports  Armored Versus Daring Leadership, Part 1 of 2 - Brené Brown, 2021, Dare to Lead (Podcast) Victor Wembanyama Emotional After Spurs Advance to the NBA Finals - 2026, Bleacher Report  Goals research summary - Gail Matthews, 2015, Dominican University of California Daring Greatly: How the Courage to Be Vulnerable Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead - Brené Brown, 2012, Gotham Books Ring Theory Helps Us Bring Comfort In - Elena Sandler, 2025, Psychology Today  Atlas of the Heart - Brené Brown, 2021 (Book)  U.S. Surgeon General Vivek Murthy & Adam Grant on Loneliness - Murthy & Grant, Authors@Wharton, 2024, YouTube  ​Andrew Garfield on grief and the loss of his mother – CBS, 2021, The Late Show with Stephen Colbert​ National Survey of Gun Policy - Center for Gun Violence Solutions, 2025, Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health  Empathic Joy and the Empathy-Altruism Hypothesis - Batson et al, 1991, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology https://psycnet.apa.org/buy/1992-05357-001 Human empathy through the lens of social neuroscience - Decety & Lamm, 2006, The Scientific World Journal  ​The Making of an American​ – Jacob Riis, 1901, Macmillan  ​The Coach–Athlete Relationship Questionnaire (CART-Q)​ – Sophia Jowett, 2004, Scandinavian Journal of Medicine & Science in Sports  ​Bad Is Stronger Than Good​ – Roy Baumeister, 2001, Review of General Psychology  ​Scarred for the Rest of My Career?​ – Erica Carleton (with Julian Barling), 2016, Journal of Sport and Exercise Psychology  The evolution of shame and its display - Landers & Sznycer, 2022, Evolutionary human sciences  ​Moral Emotions and Moral Behavior​ – June Tangney, 2007, Annual Review of Psychology The Inside Story of the Ever-Changing Brain - Brené Brown and David Eagleman, 2020, Unlocking Us with Brene Brown Podcast Unlocking the Mysteries of our Brain - Chris Anderson with David Eagleman, 2022, The TED Interview Winning coaches’ locker room secret - Blanding on the research of Barry Staw, 2019, UC Berkeley Haas School of Business Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, Brené Brown and Adam Grant unpack the paradoxes that shape our lives, relationships, leadership, and decision-making. They explore the Abilene Paradox, the Stockdale Paradox, why groups often make decisions nobody actually wants, and how people balance gritty facts with gritty faith. The conversation moves through spirituality, teamwork, family dynamics, optimism, creativity, and even unexpected debates about Twilight and Pitch Perfect. Funny, thoughtful, and deeply human, this episode examines why two opposite truths can exist at the same time and why learning to live inside that tension may be one of the most important skills we have.  You can find The Curiosity Shop on ⁠YouTube⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ (@thecuriosityshop). 00:00 Intro: Paradoxes, Dad Jokes & Big Questions 04:20 What Is a Paradox? 10:15 The Grace Paradox 19:02 The Abilene Paradox 27:04 How to Avoid the Abilene Paradox 30:45 Guilty Pleasures: Twilight, Pitch Perfect & Eurovision 38:38 Aesthetic Chills & The Big Five 43:08 The Stockdale Paradox Explained 46:48 Gritty Facts vs. Gritty Faith 49:47 Why Leaders Need Paradoxical Thinking 51:04 MLK’s “I Have a Dream” Speech 55:39 Candor Over Consensus 57:32 Comfort vs. Courage 1:02:06 Jim Collins & The Genius of the And 1:06:48 Harvard's Anti-Grade Inflation Policy 1:09:21 How Brené Grades Group Projects 1:13:19 Building the Muscle to Hold Paradox 1:14:54 Personal Paradoxes & The Grace of Getting It Wrong Lump - Allison Sweet Grant, September 2026, Little, Brown and Co. (Forthcoming book) Both/And Thinking: Embracing Creative Tensions to Solve Your Toughest Problems - Smith & Lewis, 2022, Harvard Business Review Press (Book) Toward A Theory of Paradox: A Dynamic Equilibrium Model of Organizing - Smith & Lewis, 2011, Academy of Management Review Vibe: The Secrets of Strong Connections in a Lonely World - Adam Grant, October 2026, Vking (Forthcoming book) Holding the Tension, The Wisdom of Paradox - Adapted, 2024, from Richard Rohr, The Naked Now: Learning to See as the Mystics See, 2009, Center for Action and Contemplation, Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit - Brené Brown, 2025, Random House SmartLess (Guest: Stephen Colbert) - Arnett, Bateman & Hayes, SiriusXM/Wondery (Podcast) The Abilene Paradox: The Management of Agreement - Harvey, 1974, Organizational Dynamics Eurovision Song-Along: Story of Fire Saga: "Song-Along" - Dobking, D. (Director), 2020, Netflix (Movie clip) Grease: "You're The One That I Want" - Kleiser, R. (Director) 1978, Paramount Pictures (Movie clip) Brain Connectivity Reflects Human Aesthetic Responses to Music - Sachs, Ellis, Schlaug & Loui, 2016, Social Cognitive and Affective Neuroscience Aesthetic Chills as a Universal Marker of Openness to Experience - McCrae, 2007, Motivation and Emotion The Stockdale Paradox - Jim Collins, 2017, jimcollins.com Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap... and Others Don't - Jim Collins, 2001, HarperBusiness (Book) Dare to Lead: Brave Work. Tough Conversations. Whole Hearts - Brené Brown, 2018, Random House (Book) The Discovery of Grounded Theory: Strategies for Qualitative Research - Barney Glaser and Anselm Strauss, 1967, Aldine (Book) It's 2020, Stop Saying 'Negative Nancy' - Sexist colloquialisms to avoid - Eskreis-Winkler, 2020, An Injustice! (Magazine) https://www.feministlawprofessors.com/2008/07/nervous-nellie-was-not-a-woman/ The Will and the Ways: Development and Validation of an Individual-Differences Measure of Hope - Snyder et al., 1991, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology An analysis of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr's "I Have a Dream" public speech - Duarte, 2011 BE 2.0 (Beyond Entrepreneurship 2.0): Turning Your Business into an Enduring Great Company - Collins and Lazier, 2020, Portfolio/Penguin (Book) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Marking a major personal milestone, Brené shares what led her to 30 years of sobriety and Adam asks what it taught her about change. From there, they pivot to why Brené can’t tolerate the cringe of The Office —and Adam’s take on how to engage with it. Finally, they deliver a masterclass on the art and science of ending social interactions, sharing the ultimate shortcut to a graceful exit. This is great!  You can find The Curiosity Shop on ⁠YouTube⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ (@thecuriosityshop). 0:00 - What Are We Talking About Today? 5:00 - Sober AF: Celebrating 30 Years of Sobriety  16:30 - Grieving for Joy 28:22 - Why Can’t Brené Watch The Office? 43:18 - Loving or Hating Violating the Rules 49:30 - The Art of Leaving Conversations Respectfully 1:03:40 - The Shortcut to a Graceful Exit 1:08:39 - What Adam and Brené Are Watching Now Gottman Institute - Research and History - Drs. Julie and John Gottman (Founded 1996) The Love Prescription, Part 2 of 3 - Brene Brown with Drs John and Julie Gottman, 2022, Unlocking Us Podcast The Power of Vulnerability - Brené Brown, 2010, TED Talk, TEDxHouston Everything You Think You Know About Addiction Is Wrong - Johann Hari, 2015, TED Talk, TEDGlobalLondon The Fresh Start Effect: Temporal Landmarks Motivate Aspirational Behavior - Dai, Milkman & Riis, 2014, Management Science Daring Greatly: How the Courage to Be Vulnerable Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead - Brené Brown, 2012, book, Gotham Books I Love Lucy: Job Switching - Arnaz, 1952, CBS The Office: Scott's Tots - B.J. Novak, 2009, NBC Benign Violations: Making Immoral Behavior Funny - McGraw & Warren, 2010, Psychological Science Office Ladies - Fischer & Kinsey, 2019-present, Audacy (Podcast) Do Conversations End When People Want Them To? - Mastroianni et al., 2021, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences Politeness: Some Universals in Language Usage - Brown & Levinson, 1987, Cambridge University Press (Book) Want to Improve Your Relationship? Start Paying More Attention to Bids - Logan Ury, 2026, Gottman Institute The Virtues of Gossip: Reputational Information Sharing as Prosocial Behavior - Feinberg, Willer, Stellar & Keltner, 2012, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology Jury Duty - Eisenberg & Stupnitsky, 2023-2026, Amazon Prime Video (Television Series)  Jury Duty Presents: Company Retreat - Eisenberg & Stupnitsky, 2026, Amazon Prime Video (Television Series) The Madison - 2026, Sheridan, Paramount+ (Television Series) Landman - Sheridan, 2024-present, Paramount+ (Television Series) Opening Up Closings - Schegloff & Sacks, 1973, Semiotica Closing the Conversation: Evidence from the Academic Advising Session - Hartford & Bardovi-Harlig, 1992, Discourse Processes Collaborative Strategies in Chinese Telephone Conversation Closings - Sun, 2005, Pragmatics Ending Social Encounters - Albert & Kessler, 1978, Journal of Experimental Social Psychology Relations in Public: Microstudies of the Public Order - Erving Goffman, 1971, Basic Books (Book) Sorry for Your Kindness: Japanese Interactional Ritual in Public Discourse - Ide, 1998, Journal of Pragmatics Getting Down to Business: Talk, Gaze, and Body Orientation During Openings of Doctor-Patient Consultations - Robinson, 1998, Human Communication Research Negotiating Last-Minute Concerns in Closing Korean Medical Encounters - Park, 2013, Social Science & Medicine Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Do you find yourself defaulting to “Preacher” mode when you’re under pressure, or starting to act like a “Prosecutor” when someone challenges your ideas? Brené and Adam unpack four mental modes – Preacher, Prosecutor, Politician, and Scientist – to explore why we often cling to being right rather than getting it right. In this episode, they discuss how these defensive stances are shaping our response to AI, Brené’s “bounce” method for emotional hypothesis-testing, Adam’s go-to “strategy of small losses,” and ways to stay curious when the stakes are high. You can find The Curiosity Shop on ⁠YouTube⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ (@thecuriosityshop). 0:00 - Introduction and Emoting 3:00 - Thinking Under Thread 11:00 - Testing Your Gut with Small Experiments 22:30 - The Integrity of Commitment: The Making of This Podcast 27:15 - Four Thinking Modes: Scientist, Preacher, Prosecutor, Politician 33:57 - When Opinions Become Beliefs 42:48 - The Social Costs of Changing Our Minds 51:30 - A Missing Mental Model: Teacher 59:30 - Wrap up Think Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don't Know - Adam Grant, 2021, Book Eric Ries on ‘The Lean Startup’ - Eric Ries, 2011, Knowledge at Wharton Learning Through Failure: The Strategy of Small Losses - Sitkin, 1992, Research in Organizational Behavior Affective Forecasting - Wilson & Gilbert, 2003, Advances in Experimental Social Psychology Atlas of the Heart - Brené Brown, 2021 (Book) The Science of the Deal - Adam Grant, WorkLife with Adam Grant Podcast The Power of Vulnerability - Brené Brown, 2011, TED The Surprising Habits of Original Thinkers - Adam Grant, 2016, TED Beliefs Are Like Possessions - Abelson, 2007, Journal for the Theory of Social Behaviour We Need to Talk about Astrology - Adam Grant, 2024, Substack  The Diplomat - Cahn et al., 2023-present, Let's Not Turn This Into a Whole Big Production & Well Red, Netflix (TV series) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Brené and Adam discuss the power — and peril — of the words we choose. They dive into two Machiavellian communication tools that often do more harm than good: the "Invisible Army" and "BS Disclaimers". Brené explains why leading with “we” or “but” often comes across as requesting permission to escape accountability, which ultimately sacrifices trust more than anything. Adam explores how these tools can sometimes serve as survival strategies in toxic cultures, leading to a conversation on psychological safety, groupthink, and why precision of language is more important than ever — especially in a world that still judges based on gender and identity. You can find The Curiosity Shop on ⁠YouTube⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ (@thecuriosityshop). 0:00 - Introduction 1:10 - The Invisible Army 15:23 - Speaking Up and Pluribus 21:26 - ‘But’ or Escaping Accountability? 40:59 - Responsibility Versus Accountability 46:22 - Judgment Based on Gender and Identity  1:01:55 - Takeaways From Today’s Episode Armored Versus Daring Leadership, Part 2 of 2 - Brené Brown, 2021, Dare to Lead (Podcast) Getting credit for proactive behavior: Supervisor reactions depend on what you value and how you feel - Grant et al., 2009, Personnel Psychology Plur1bus - Gilligan et al., 2025 - Present, Sony Pictures; Apple TV+ (TV series) Does Performance Improve Following Multisource Feedback? A Theoretical Model, Meta-Analysis, and Review of Empirical Findings - Smither et al., 2005, Personnel Psychology Feedback effectiveness: Can 360-degree appraisals be improved? - DeNisi et al., 2000, Academy of Management Perspectives What Makes a 360-Degree Review Successful? - Zenger and Folkman, 2020, Harvard Business Review The bullshit asymmetry [sic]: the amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger - Brandolini, A., 2013, Twitter The power of powerless speech: The effects of speech style and task interdependence on status conferral - Fragale, 2006, Organizational Behavior and Human Decision Processes How Can Women Escape the Compensation Negotiation Dilemma? Relational Accounts Are One Answer - Bowles et al., 2013, Psychology of Women Quarterly Likeable Badass: How Women Get the Success They Deserve - Fragale, 2024, Doubleday Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit - Brené Brown, 2025, Random House Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode of The Curiosity Shop, Brené Brown and Adam Grant dive into the return‑to‑office debate and argue that most conversations are stuck at the wrong level. Instead of asking “How many days in the office?”, they ask, “What problem are you actually trying to solve?” They explore evidence on hybrid work, weak‑tie innovation, culture and belonging, and why some leaders still cling to “butts in seats” as a proxy for performance. Along the way, they introduce a systems‑thinking “iceberg” tool for getting below the surface of policy fights to the patterns, structures, and mental models driving them. You can find The Curiosity Shop on ⁠YouTube⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ (@thecuriosityshop). 0:00 - What’s Surprising Us About This Podcast?  1:49 - Return to Office  22:06 - Challenging Your Return to Office Mental Model 34:15 - Birth Order 40:18 - Tradeoff Between Authenticity and Editing https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/peps.12641 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/worklife-with-adam-grant-the-dos-and-donts/id1346314086?i=1000565464077 https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/workplace/the-real-meaning-of-freedom-at-work-11633704877 https://www.researchgate.net/publication/381373698_Hybrid_working_from_home_improves_retention_without_damaging_performance https://hbr.org/2014/01/to-raise-productivity-let-more-employees-work-from-home https://sloanreview.mit.edu/article/seven-truths-about-hybrid-work-and-productivity/ https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-effects-of-remote-work-on-collaboration-among-Yang-Jaffe/bff6dabad6d264c0f34678a788e20df1b015656d https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/2041386614564105 https://www.researchgate.net/publication/44605966_The_Strength-of-Weak-Ties_Perspective_on_Creativity_A_Comprehensive_Examination_and_Extension https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~jure/pub/papers/granovetter73ties.pdf https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1802407115 https://www.researchgate.net/publication/361135288_Remote_Collaboration_Fuses_Fewer_Breakthrough_Ideas https://oms-www.files.svdcdn.com/production/downloads/academic/Disrupting-Science-Upload-2022-4.pdf https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4675401 https://www.atlassian.com/blog/distributed-work/intentional-togetherness-research https://donellameadows.org/archives/leverage-points-places-to-intervene-in-a-system/ https://sloanreview.mit.edu/article/coming-to-a-new-awareness-of-organizational-culture/ https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/epdf/10.1080/10720537.2026.2613112?needAccess=true https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1956-04524-000 https://www.nber.org/papers/w30866 https://www.amazon.com/Originals-How-Non-Conformists-Move-World/dp/014312885X https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1506451112 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

From classrooms and locker rooms to workplaces and social media, Adam and Brené trace how shame and humiliation are used to control behavior and even fuel violence. They explore what causes shame, why our self-protective responses backfire, and how we can handle it more effectively. They also unpack the messy overlap between imposter syndrome and cultural pressures toward self-doubt. You can find The Curiosity Shop on ⁠YouTube⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ (@thecuriosityshop). Chapter Titles + Timestamps: 0:00 - Introduction 2:10 - The One, Two, Threes of Shame 8:52 - The New Research on Humiliation 14:04 - What Is Humiliation? 18:30 - Why Don’t People Outgrow Shame? 29:09 - How to Help People Out of Shame? 38:05 - Reconnecting Your Prefrontal Cortex Post-Shame 42:55 - How Does Shame Relate to Imposter Syndrome? 50:10 - Biggest Takeaways About Shame, Guilt, Humiliation, and Embarrassment Why Feelings of Guilt May Signal Leadership Potential - Marina Krakovsky, 2012, Insights by Stanford Business (Introducing the work of Schaumberg)  Unwanted identities: A key variable in shame-anger links and gender differences in shame - Ferguson et al., Sex Roles Humiliation: Causes, correlates, and consequences - Elison & Harter, 2007, from The self‑conscious emotions: Theory and research  Healing Humiliation: From Reaction to Creative Action - Hartling & Linder, 2016, Journal of Counseling & Development Shame and Humiliation: From Isolation to Relational Transformation - Hartling et al., Stone Center for Developmental Services and Studies Strengthening resilience in a risky world: It’s all about relationships - Hartling, 2003, Women & Therapy  Stop Telling Women They Have Imposter Syndrome - Ruchika Tulshyan & Jodi-Ann Burey, 2021, Harvard Business Review How imposter syndrome can be your superpower - MIT Sloan Office Of Communications, 2025 (Introducing the work of Basima Tewfik) Unmasking the Impostor - MIT Sloan Office of Communications, 2025 (Tewfik, Debunking 4 myths)  Listening to shame, Brené Brown, 2012, TED The Power of Vulnerability, Brené Brown, 2011, TED Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode is about learning to sit with uncertainty. The episode opens with a discussion of listener questions on how to handle risk, the ingredients of a great apology, and why people stay loyal to relationships and organizations that quietly drain them. Then Brené and Adam turn to uncertainty – how our brains are wired for a threat response, what intolerance of uncertainty actually is, and why it can drive people toward authoritarian leaders.   You can find The Curiosity Shop on ⁠YouTube⁠ and ⁠Instagram⁠ (@thecuriosityshop). 0:00 - Introduction and Guest Questions 3:20 - Is Risk Something to Review or Reveal 13:40 - Why do People Stay Loyal to Bad Relationships? 22:28 - Strategies for Apologizing and Repair 32:33 - Is Uncertainty a Strength or Deficit for Leaders? 40:15 - Intolerance for Uncertainty 52:00 - Terror Management Theory and our Response to Uncertainty 59:50 - How Can We Manage Uncertainty 1:05:00 - Closing Show Notes: Capabilities, Cognition and Inertia: Evidence from Digital Imaging - Tripsas and Gavetti, 2000, Harvard Business School (Polaroid Study) The Fearless Organization: Creating Psychological Safety in the Workplace for Learning, Innovation, and Growth - Amy Edmondson, 2019, Book Is it Safe to Speak Up at Work? - Adam Grant and Amy Edmonson, July 2021, Worklife with Adam Grant Podcast Anchored, Aligned, Accountable: A Framework for Transcending Bullsh*t and Transforming Our Lives and Work (Foreword by Brené Brown) - Aiko Bethea, 2026, Book Predicting Exit Voice Loyalty and Neglect - Withey and Cooper, 1989, Administrative Science Quarterly Exit, Voice, and Loyalty: Responses to Decline in Firms, Organizations, and States -  Albert Hirschman,1970, Book The Decision Lab: System Justification Theory The Secrets of a Great Apology - Adam Grant and Beth Polin, 2025, WorkLife with Adam Grant Podcast The Dance of Anger: A Woman's Guide to Changing the Patterns of Intimate Relationships - Harriet Lerner, 2025, Book I’m Sorry: How to Apologize and Why It Matters, Part 1 of 2 - Brené Brown and Harriet Lerner, 2020, Unlocking Us with Brene Brown Podcast Conclave - Robert Harris, 2016, Book A Comprehensive Analysis of COVID-19 Misinformation, Public Health Impacts, and Communication Strategies: Scoping Review - Kisa, 2024, Journal of Medical Internet Research   Into the Unknown: A Review and Synthesis of Contemporary Models Involving Uncertainty - Carleton, 2016, Journal of Anxiety Disorders Conceptual Models of Generalized Anxiety Disorder - Fisher and Wells, 2011, Psychiatric Annals  The Other Side of Change: Who We Become When Life Makes Other Plans - Maya Shankar, 2026, Book   Aftereffects of Stress on Human Performance and Social Behavior: A Review of Research and Theory - Cohen (Includes the work of Glass and Singer), 1980, Carnegie Mellon Research University Hofstede's Cultural Dimensions on Uncertainty Avoidance Compensatory Conviction in the Face of Personal Uncertainty: Going to Extremes and Being Oneself - Mcgregor et al., 2001, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology Are Needs to Manage Uncertainty and Threat Associated With Political Conservatism or Ideological Extremity? - Jost et al, 2007, Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin The Causes and Consequences of a Need For Self-esteem: A Terror Management Theory - Greenberg, Pyszczynski, & Solomon, 1986, Book chapter Foolproof: Why We Fall for Misinformation and How to Build Immuninity - Sander van der Linden, 2023, Book Utterly Humbled by Mystery - Richard Rohr, 2006, NPR Morning Edition Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What happens when your confidence outruns your competence? Brené and Adam start with freestyle skiing champ Eileen Gu’s extraordinary Olympic press conference and use it to explore metacognition—how to notice your thinking, question it, and change it on purpose. They dig into the Dunning–Kruger effect, calibration, journaling, and feedback, discuss why we’re so bad at estimating timelines, and consider how “I’ve got this” energy can quietly wreck projects, relationships, and learning. From pickleball and ping pong to therapy and team meetings, this episode is about building the inner game of better thinking without losing your nerve along the way. You can find the Curiosity Shop on YouTube⁠ and Instagram⁠ (@thecuriosityshop). Chapters: 0:00 - Introductions 3:45 - Eileen Gu’s Metacognition   12:22 - What is Metacognition?  25:10 - What is Dunning-Kruger? 38:14 - Time Estimation and The Planning Fallacy  44:36 - Metacognition and Dunning-Kruger Final Thoughts  58:17 - Wrap up Shownotes: I hate minimalism - Hank Green, TikTok Strong Ground: The Lessons of Daring Leadership, the Tenacity of Paradox, and the Wisdom of the Human Spirit - Brené Brown, 2025, Book  Metacognition and Cognitive Monitoring: A New Area of Cognitive-Developmental Inquiry - Flavell, 1979 Explaining the Dunning-Kruger effect and overcoming overconfidence with David Dunning - Adam Grant, 2024, Worklife with Adam Grant Think Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don't Know - Adam Grant, 2021, Book Intuitive Prediction: Biases and Corrective Procedures - Kahneman & Tversky, 1979, Office of Naval Research Daniel Kahneman Doesn't Trust Your Intuition - Adam Grant, 2023,  Re:Thinking with Adam Grant  The Story Rumble Process: A Guide for Groups and Teams - Brené Brown, Dare to Lead, 2018 The learning benefits of teaching: A retrieval practice hypothesis - Koh, 2018 Hidden Potential: The Science of Achieving Greater Things - Adam Grant, 2023, Book Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments - Kruger & Dunning, 1999, Cornell University The Inner Game of Tennis - The Classic Guide to the Mental Side of Peak Performance - Timothy Gallwey, 1974, Book Charlotte Harpur and Eileen Gu, Final Press Conference, 2026 Winter Olympics, Milano, Italy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week, Brené and Adam are live at SXSW! They explore why so many people are vulnerable to narcissistic leaders. The conversation covers the conditions that breed narcissistic leadership, the roles of shame and fear, and how to survive a narcissistic boss, and what it means to lead with mission over ego. You can find The Curiosity Shop on YouTube and Instagram (@thecuriosityshop). Chapters: 0:00 - Introduction 3:14 - Why People Are Vulnerable to Narcissistic Leaders 12:21 - Shame-Based Fear 18:04 - Do We Think About Emotions Wrong? 19:21 - Undue Credit and the Narcissistic Leader 26:00 - Mission Over Ego 29:52 - How to Manage a Narcissistic Boss 39:18 - Anxiety as a Path to Narcissism 47:45 - Judging Impairs Judgement 1:02:20 - Closing Show Notes: Adam Grant, Why We Fall for Narcissistic Leaders, Starting in Grade School, NYT 2025. O'Reilly et al. 2001 When 'Me' Trumps 'We': Narcissistic Leaders and the Cultures They Create, 2021. Brené Brown, "Shame shields" in The Dare to Lead Glossary: Key Language skills, tools, and practices. (pg. 15-16) Bagozzi et al. 2003 (A study on cross-cultural differences in reaction to shame) Brené Brown, Dan Pink on The Power of Regret, Dare to Lead, 2022 We're The Millers (Trailer) 2013, Awkward Roadtrip Moments: No Ragrets George Saunders, "Failures of Kindness", Convocation Speech, 2013 Emily Grijalva et al. 2020 (A study of the impact of narcissim on NBA team performance) How Brené Brown and Lumen CEO Kate Johnson Sparked This Telecom Comeback, WSJ Leadership Institute, 2025 (11:25) Adam Grant, Unless You're Oprah, ‘Be Yourself’ Is Terrible Advice - Adam Grant 2016 NYT My response to Adam Grant’s New York Times Op/ED: Unless You're Oprah, ‘Be Yourself’ Is Terrible Advice - Brené Brown LinkedIn 2016 Watts et al, 2014 (A study of grandiose narcissism and vulnerable narcissism in U.S. Presidents) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Brené and Adam have a bracingly honest conversation about what could go wrong in their collaboration, and how to set new teams, partnerships, and friendships up for success. They discuss the science of avoiding failure and building alignment, and practical strategies for navigating differences—including their own clashing instincts around minimalism vs. maximalism and sarcasm vs. trashtalk. The episode closes with what each of them is listening to, watching, and reading right now. You can also find The Curiosity Shop on YouTube and Instagram (@thecuriosityshop). Chapters: 00:00 - How Brené Inadvertently Launched Adam into Podcasting 02:57 - Interpreting Sarcasm  16:08 - How to Prevent Failure 28:57 - How Could This Partnership Could Go Wrong 38:42 - Learning From Differences 52:05 - How to Align Teams   1:02:00 - Closing Questions Show Notes: Brené and Adam on What They Will Never Agree On - The Curiosity Shop Episode 1 Unless You’re Oprah, ‘Be Yourself’ Is Terrible Advice - Adam Grant 2016 NYT Op-Ed My response to Adam Grant’s New York Times Op/ED: Unless You’re Oprah, ‘Be Yourself’ Is Terrible Advice - Brené Brown 2016 LinkedIn How to Love Criticism - Adam Grant 2018 WorkLife with Adam Grant Adam Grant on The Power of Knowing What You Don’t Know - Brené Brown and Adam Grant 2021 Dare To Lead Podcast Brené Brown on What Vulnerability Isn’t - Adam Grant and Brené Brown 2023 Re: Thinking Ted Audio Collective Hypervigilance in Mary Poppins (1964) The art and science of trash talk with Rafi Kohan - Adam Grant 2024 Work Life With Adam Grant Performing a Project Premortem - Gary Klein 2007 HBR Evaluating the Effectiveness of the PreMortem Technique on Plan Confidence - Veinot, Klein, & Wiggins 2010 ISCRAM Conference The Economics of Gender Differences in Employment Outcomes in Academia - Donna Ginther 2006 National Library of Medicine Leverage Points: Places to Intervene in a System - Donnella Meadows 1999 The Donella Meadows Project Academy for Systems Change Narcissists: Are We Surrounded? On Science Vs: - Wendy Zukerman 2024 Science VS Podcast Human Raised: Nurturing Connection, Curiosity, & Lifelong Learning in the Age - Dana Suskind, MD 2026 Book The Killing Stones A Detective Jimmy Perez Novel - Ann Cleeves 2025 Book Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to The Curiosity Shop! In the inaugural episode, Brené and Adam discuss how a public disagreement about authenticity almost ended their relationship before it began. For the first time, they discuss where they went wrong, why they changed their minds about each other, and what they learned about repair and trust. They also explore what healthy authenticity looks like, and dive into the many things they may still never fully see eye to eye on – from email vs. texting to remote work to faith. Show Notes Unless You’re Oprah, ‘Be Yourself’ Is Terrible Advice - Adam Grant 2016 NYT Op-Ed The Fine Line Between Helpful and Harmful Authenticity - Adam Grant 2020 NYT Authenticity Is a Double-Edged Sword -  Adam Grant 2020 WorkLife with Adam Grant Podcast  My response to Adam Grant’s New York Times Op/ED: Unless You’re Oprah, ‘Be Yourself’ Is Terrible Advice - Brené Brown LinkedIn 2016 The Dangers of Being Authentic - Adam Grant LinkedIn 2016 In Tough Times, Psychological Safety Is a Requirement, Not a Luxury  - Michael Blanding 2025 HBR Jecker & Landy: Liking a person as a function of doing him a favour  - Jecker & Landy 1969 APA PsycNet Adam Grant on The Power of Knowing What You Don’t Know  - Brené Brown and Adam Grant 2021 Dare To Lead Podcast Brené Brown on What Vulnerability Isn’t - Adam Grant and Brené Brown 2023 Re: Thinking Ted Audio Collective A Whole New Mind (Right-Brainers will Rule the Future)  - Daniel H. Pink 2005 Book The Neuroscience of You: How Every Brain Is Different and How to Understand Yours  - Chantel Prat 2022 Book Dr. Harriet Lerner on I’m Sorry: How to Apologize and Why It Matters, Part 1 of 2  - Brené Brown and Dr. Harriet Lerner 2020 Unlocking Us Podcast Happy Gilmore Scene - I’m Stupid You’re Smart - Happy Gilmore 1996 Movie Shame and Guilt - June Price Tangney 2002 Book Daniel Kahneman: Doesn't Trust Your Intuition - Adam Grant and Daniel Kahneman 2021 Re:Thinking But yes, Blue Jays are master mimics Sponsor List Thank you to SAS and Canva! Chapters Titles + Timestamps 0:00 - Introduction 3:26 - Our First Disagreement 18:45 - Our Path Here 28:31 - Approach to Repair an Apology 51:02 - Closing Question Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Research professor Brené Brown and organizational psychologist Adam Grant are partnering on a new weekly podcast grounded in an unflinching commitment to learning and unlearning. At a time when public discourse rewards certainty over inquiry, The Curiosity Shop will see two of the world’s most influential thought leaders make the case for slowing down, asking better questions, and embracing informed complexity over easy answers. Bringing together their left and right brain sensibilities — she’s a qualitative researcher; he’s a quantitative researcher — they will explore some of the defining questions of our time, unpack the research reshaping how we live, lead, and love, and dive deep into the ideas, evidence, and cultural moments intriguing them the most. Tune in for the first episode on Thursday, March 19! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the second part of an Ask Me Anything episode around Strong Ground, Brené shares an excerpt from the Strong Ground audiobook that walks listeners through the one topic that elicited the most questions — the Above/Below the Line practice. This is one of the most profound self-awareness tools we discovered! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In part one of an Ask Me Anything episode around Strong Ground, Brené answers questions from listeners about mindset shifts, leading from where you are, and courage and boldness in uncertain times. She highlights the importance of pausing during big decisions where action is not always impact, breaks down how to be courageous when it’s not the popular choice, and emphasizes the role of curiosity and thoughtfulness when moving through uncertainty and overwhelm. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the final episode of a special “Dare to Lead” series with Adam Grant, Brené and Adam discuss the problem with rewarding all effort as excellence. Instead, leaders should reward effort that is not leading to success or mastery with their time through coaching, mentoring, and sharing their own experiences of transformation and change. They also explore how to approach decisions based on how consequential and reversible they are and highlight the role that leaders play in setting up others for success by making sure their team has what they need. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the fifth episode of a special “Dare to Lead” series with Adam Grant, Brené and Adam break down the skillsets of empathy, empathy misses, and how empathy is trickier than walking in someone else’s shoes. They discuss the way empathy can show up as being curious and caring — irreducible prerequisites for good leadership. Brené shares a powerful sentence for leaders building an empathy skillset: “What does support from me look like right now?” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the fourth episode of a special “Dare to Lead” series with Adam Grant, Brené and Adam explore the attack on empathy, the difference between cognitive empathy and affective empathy, and what separates empathy from enmeshment. Brené shares a personal story that led to a breakthrough around how to stay aligned with empathy and perspective taking instead of over-identifying and finding yourself in enmeshment — the feeling of not knowing where you end and someone else begins. They also discuss how living in an image-heavy world can affect the way we engage with empathy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the third part of a special series with Adam Grant, Brené and Adam tackle the topics of time scarcity, how a great leader doesn’t have all the right answers, but the right questions, and the difference between pocket presence and executive presence. They dig into how understanding the 5 Cs — color, context, connective tissue, cost, and consequence — of delegation and strategy operations can build the situational awareness, temporal awareness, systems theory, and critical thinking skills necessary for pocket presence. In their discussion, Adam shares his breakthrough of seeing pocket presence as a collective capability, whereas executive presence is “party of one.” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In part two of a special series with Adam Grant on Brené’s new book, Strong Ground, Brené and Adam discuss the far and near enemies of generosity, the tug of war of paradox, and sports as leadership theater. They explore how finding our strong ground offers tethering, connection, and stability, and also the platform for explosive movement and change. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this special Dare to Lead episode, Brené shares one of her favorite chapters from the Strong Ground audiobook called Lock-In and Lock-Through Power. Brené uses the metaphor of a boat lock to explore the tricky work-to-home and professional-to-personal transitions that we have to navigate with our partners, children, and friends. She digs into why, at the end of a hard day, when we finally arrive home, we stay in our cars and scroll through TikTok rather than going inside, and how an intentional "locking through" process allows us to rise or lower to a new and different rhythm as we make daily transitions. And, after visiting the Teddington Lock in London and getting a lesson from the local lock keeper, she shares why moving too fast through these transitions often results in relational capsizing. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the first episode of a special series on Brené's new book, Strong Ground, Brené and Adam dig into the origins of Strong Ground, and what values clarity can mean for individuals, teams, and organizations. They take on the question of why there is so much more meaning in our lives and our work when we know who we are and what matters to us the most. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode Brené and Barrett discuss their learnings on AI and social media and some of their favorite nuggets from each of the guests in the series. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Brené and Dr. Joy discuss fighting bias in algorithms, Gender Shades - the accuracy of AI powered gender classification products, and her amazing perspective on technology as a poet, artist, and scientist. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode, Brené and Lisa discuss how we can work to close the digital divide and ensure more people have access to technology, what it means in AI speak to have a human in the loop, and the incredible ways teachers, business owners, and regular people are using AI. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Quantitative futurist Amy Webb talks to us about the three technologies that make up the "super cycle" that we're all living through right now: artificial intelligence, wearable devices, and biotechnology, and why, despite the unnerving change, we still need to do some serious future planning.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In Part 2 of my conversation with Paul Leonardi and Tsedal Neeley, authors of The Digital Mindset: What It Really Takes to Thrive in the Age of Data, Algorithms, and AI, we talk about the importance of establishing a baseline digital literacy in our organizations and the intimate relationship between the skill sets and the mindsets we cultivate. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This two-part podcast with Paul Leonardi and Tsedal Neeley is an absolute game changer. Given how often I find myself working with leaders who are knee-high in uncertainty and vulnerability around digital transformation, I thought I had a pretty solid understanding of it. But The Digital Mindset book and this conversation turned everything upside down. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with Part 2 of my conversation with Mike Erwin, the founder and CEO of the Character and Leadership Center and the co-author of Leadership Is a Relationship. In this episode, we continue to dig into how the most effective leaders prioritize relationships. They give feedback that calls attention to the behaviors they want to encourage, invest in the slow work of pulling and keeping people together, and navigate the trickiness of loyalty, a state that, if it starts to move us out of our values, can become transactional, not relational. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is the first of two episodes with Mike Erwin, the founder and CEO of the Character and Leadership Center and the co-author of Leadership Is a Relationship, a timely book that details why leaders who prioritize relationships are more effective. It’s a conversation about the seven functions of relationship-building and the importance of prioritizing our relationships as people and also as leaders. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I won’t lie: This conversation was hard as hell. But — I’m so grateful to Lisa Lahey and all the work she and Robert Kegan have done on the “immunity to change” theory. It explains why lasting, meaningful change is damn hard. Rather than simply talking about the process, Lisa and I actually engage in it around something I’m desperate to change (and somewhat refusing to change). She is so skilled at asking questions and framing conversations — this is a MASTER class Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I don’t like to think of myself as someone who’s averse to change. But, man, am I averse to change. Enter the amazing Lisa Lahey. She is a Harvard Graduate School of Education faculty member who has built a body of work to help learners and leaders overcome the innate human aversion to change. And I thought, when I asked her to join us for a two-parter on this podcast, that we’d talk about the “immunity to change” theory — how change happens, why it’s so hard — from an academic perspective. Instead, she walks me through a very personal struggle around something in my life that I’ve desperately wanted to change but just seemingly cannot. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices