Every marketer has felt it—that sinking feeling when organic traffic takes a sudden hit. Maybe it’s an algorithm update, increased competition, or just Google being Google. But what if you didn’t have to live in fear of these swings?  

In this episode, we’re joined by **Eli Schwartz**, SEO expert, consultant, and author of *Product-Led SEO*. With over a decade of experience helping companies like WordPress, Shutterstock, Quora, and Zendesk scale their organic visibility, Eli knows what it takes to build SEO strategies that don’t just survive algorithm changes—but thrive despite them.  

We’ll dive into why traditional SEO tactics are losing their effectiveness, how AI is shifting search behavior, and why focusing on users—not search engines—is the key to long-term organic growth.  

If you’re tired of reactive SEO and want a strategy that stands the test of time, this episode is for you.

• Why optimizing for search engines alone sets you up for failure  
• How to make your product and content work *for* search, not just for rankings  
• The mindset shift that helps you avoid revenue-killing SEO surprises 

https://97thfloor.com/articles/podcasts/how-to-avoid-organic-revenue-swings-by-being-user-obsessed-not-google-obsessed/ 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/schwartze 

"They don't want content. They want to solve maybe pain, maybe curiosity, but they want to solve something and you solve it with an asset... you're creating for the user, not creating for the search engine." - Eli Schwartz

03:02 - Product-led SEO vs traditional keyword-driven approach

07:00 - GEO (Generative Engine Optimization) vs SEO debate

12:50 - Moving from deliverable-focused to value-driven SEO

16:22 - Why understanding users is crucial for future SEO success

18:43 - How to develop customer empathy beyond personas

23:45 - Balancing expectations while transitioning SEO strategy

Webinars have been a staple in B2B marketing for years, but let’s be honest—most of them are forgettable. 

Attendees tune out, engagement drops, and worst of all, they don’t drive real pipeline. So, what separates a webinar that works from one that flops?

In this episode of The Campaign, we’re breaking down the strategies that keep audiences engaged and, more importantly, move them through the funnel. 

If you’re tired of lackluster webinars that don’t deliver, this conversation is packed with insights to help you rethink your approach.

• The biggest mistakes marketers make when planning webinars
•  Matt’s 3-layer framework for keeping webinar guests engaged the entire time
•  Live vs. on-demand webinars—what actually works?

https://97thfloor.com/articles/podcasts/webinars-that-work-keeping-attendees-engaged-and-moving-down-the-funnel/ 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattmurdoch 

"When they register, that's the moment of need for them... The company that delivers the value first is the company that's going to win." - Matt Murdoch

02:33 - What inspired the Webinar Manifesto 10+ years ago

06:36 - Common planning mistakes: "Field of Dreams" fallacy

09:13 - Three essential ingredients for successful webinars

11:41 - Virtual accountability framework: verbal, visual, kinesthetic

18:42 - Marketing webinars like rock concerts and leveraging FOMO

22:41 - Live vs on-demand webinars: chocolate vs peanut butter

ABM is supposed to be the most effective way to drive pipeline and revenue—but for many CMOs, it still feels like a never-ending struggle. Sales and marketing aren’t aligned. Measurement is murky. The tools are expensive, and let’s be honest—half the time, you’re not even sure if you’re actually doing ABM or just running a glorified demand gen campaign.

And then there’s the biggest challenge that doesn’t get talked about enough: data governance. Platforms like 6sense and Demandbase rely on your first-party data, but if that data is a mess—full of gaps, duplicates, and outdated info—your account lists won’t be trustworthy, sales won’t buy in, and your entire ABM strategy will struggle to gain traction.

So how do you fix it? In this episode, we’re tackling what actually makes ABM work. No fluff, no vendor pitches—just real talk on how to clean up your data, align your teams, and finally see ROI.

Because ABM shouldn’t be this hard—and with the right strategy, it doesn’t have to be.

• How to fix your first-party data so your ABM platform actually delivers results
• The real difference between ABM and demand gen (and why so many teams blur the line)
• How to get Sales and Marketing to trust—and act on—the same account list

https://97thfloor.com/articles/podcasts/a-practical-look-at-abm-tools-teams-and-measurement/ 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/madelyneoliver 

"ABM is single-handedly account-centric. It focuses on the journey of the account, whereas DemandGen is leads, contacts, all of those people touch points that we would expect that get associated of course with the account." - Madelyne Oliver

03:18 - ABM vs DemandGen: account-centric vs lead-centric approaches

04:55 - Common mistakes in account selection and sales alignment

07:20 - One-to-one, one-to-few, one-to-many ABM framework

14:49 - How AI is making data collection both harder and easier

22:41 - ABM tech stack recommendations for mid-market companies

24:56 - Measuring ABM impact: pipeline and revenue-driven metrics

Most technical B2B industries are changing daily—cybersecurity is no exception. AI, global conflicts, new regulations, and nonstop threats are keeping security teams on their toes. 

But here’s the problem: marketers struggle to tap into that expertise, and cybersecurity SMEs are too busy putting out fires to help.

The result? Content that’s too generic, too slow, or just doesn’t hit the mark.

If you’ve ever struggled to get cybersecurity experts involved in content—or to make their knowledge work for your marketing—this one’s for you.

• Why B2B marketing teams need SMEs more than ever
• How to actually get time with busy experts (without annoying them)
• The secret to turning deep security insights into content people actually want to read

https://97thfloor.com/articles/podcasts/engaging-deeply-technical-smes-to-create-high-converting-content/ 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/maria-vepa 

"We are selling to humans. Sure, we're in B2B, but it really is human behind that computer screen, and there's no better way to just really relate and connect directly to that person." - Maria Velasquez

04:15 - Why SMEs are crucial for B2B cybersecurity marketing trust

06:48 - Finding external SMEs when you don't have internal expertise

09:05 - Video-first framework for extracting SME value

14:39 - Common mistakes that damage SME relationships

18:47 - Ensuring SME time is well-spent and productive

25:11 - Drawing out day-in-the-life insights for authentic content

Case studies should be your mid-to-low-funnel MVP—building trust, closing deals, and driving serious ROI. 

But for most teams, they’re a nightmare. Slow, messy, and frustrating to produce. 

Even when they do go live, they rarely deliver the impact they should.

Why? Because great customer stories don’t just happen—they require a strong internal infrastructure. Without the right processes, accountability, and buy-in, your customer stories will stay stuck in limbo (or worse, go completely unused).

In this episode, we’re joined by case study maven Joel Klettke to learn how to create powerful, scalable case studies with the right engine.

• The mistake that’s killing your case studies before they’ve even seen a first draft,
• How to get internal buy-in so that customer stories become a shared priority, and
• How to build a process that keeps fresh, powerful case studies rolling.

https://97thfloor.com/articles/podcasts/building-a-case-study-growth-engine-from-one-off-to-always-on/ 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/joelklettke 

"The companies who are going to win are going be the companies who realize, they can steal our features, they can poach our people, they can copy our design... the one thing they can't take away from us that are ours to lose are our advocates, our customer stories." - Joel Klettke 

03:15 - Customer stories vs case studies: terminology matters

04:32 - Infrastructure as the #1 barrier to case study creation

09:51 - Proactive vs reactive case study strategy

14:07 - Quality over quantity: finding the right balance

18:28 - Navigating B2B approval processes and red tape

25:31 - Format planning: gathering stories vs choosing outputs

We all know B2B marketing is about more than just features and data—it’s about connecting with your buyers on a deeper level. 

The problem? B2B marketers often get stuck in the weeds of rational, logical content and miss the emotional triggers that actually drive purchase decisions.

The key to closing more deals? Storytelling. Feels cliché. We know. 

That’s why we’re digging into the best scholarly research we can find to discover how to craft stories that build trust, resonate deeply, and ultimately close deals.

Paxton is joined by Tara Ramroop, a former journalist and the Director of Content Marketing at Braze.

• How to increase conversion rates with effective storytelling;
• How major technology brands are using archetypes to reduce uncertainty;
• The story structure that C-suite executives love;
• And how to discover and tell the best stories in your data and people.

https://97thfloor.com/articles/podcasts/storytelling-that-sells-how-to-influence-b2b-buyers-with-emotion/ 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/tararamroop 

"Stories connect like people, people to people, businesses to businesses, businesses to humans in those businesses. And they also inspire." - Tara Ramroop

03:35 - What storytelling means in B2B marketing

08:15 - How bus wraps and billboards fit into the story framework

12:28 - Demonstrating understanding vs. hard selling

16:22 - Audience segmentation based on behaviors and pain points

19:58 - Operationalizing storytelling with processes and tools

25:23 - Building ROI case and getting scrappy with limited resources

Segmenting B2B audiences by industry is a great way to demonstrate empathy and gain trust with your audience through tailored content and personalized solutions.

In practice, it’s more complicated. Industry segmentation can stretch teams thin, risk overpromising, and even feel insincere to our intended audience.

It demands in-depth product knowledge, a deep understanding of each audience, a flexible sales team, and substantial marketing resources to pull it off.

Paxton and Rick Galán, SVP of Growth Marketing at BILL discuss the best way to approach industry segmentation and the audience research that makes it truly effective.

• How to decide what industries to focus on
• The best customer research strategies to inform messaging
• How to successfully target multiple industries without burning out

https://97thfloor.com/articles/podcasts/segmentation-by-industry-tailoring-b2b-marketing-to-multiple-audiences/ 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/rickgalan 

"Great creative work is born out of constraints. And getting really focused on a message to a specific audience in a specific place is a ton of constraint that allows for a lot of really interesting creativity to happen." - Rick Galan

04:02 - Why B2B segmentation matters for message alignment

09:01 - Understanding natural business segmentation first

12:03 - Big vs small company segmentation approaches

18:16 - Balancing conflicting needs on shared assets like homepages

21:39 - Personalization vs segmentation: business focus over individual

26:49 - Coordinating with sales to find and exploit momentum

You don’t have to be an expert in SEO to know that the search landscape is more volatile than ever before.

AI has completely disrupted search, to say nothing of major algorithm updates and changes in search behavior. 

What worked for SEO in the past decade just won’t cut it in the decade ahead. 

Marketing leaders need SEOs they can place full confidence in to navigate the new AI world of search.

Join SEO Consultant Nick Leroy and Paxton Gray to hear what success will look like for SEO moving forward and what signs to look for in an SEO with the skills to carry your organic strategy through to the future.

• How SEO success may look different in 2025,
• The markers of an SEO expert you can trust and the red flags to avoid, and
• The right way to think about investing in SEO.

https://97thfloor.com/articles/podcasts/how-to-spot-seos-worth-their-chops-in-the-ai-world-of-search/ 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickleroyseo 

"If it's not expensive, time consuming, or take a lot of resources, 95% of the time, it's not going to provide value for SEO." - Nick LeRoy 

03:39 - 2025 SEO changes: biggest pivot in 15 years

06:09 - Why flat SEO performance is actually a win

12:20 - Mass content strategy sustainability debate

17:54 - SEO expensive/resource rule for real growth

23:16 - Moving SEO out of marketing into product teams

26:54 - Beyond skyscraper method: innovation over incrementalism

According to LinkedIn, nearly 80% of B2B content is gated. But some research suggests that buyers are strongly averse to gated content. Rather than surrender their inbox to an onslaught of nurture campaigns, buyers are choosing to skip the gated content all together or to give a false name and temporary email in the form. (Hello, Daffy Duck and Bruce Wayne.) 

Gated content “doesn’t work,” but some of the world’s biggest and most successful companies are still using it. What gives?

Gated content still has a place in B2B strategy. Companies that capture contacts with gated content and excel at lead nurturing generate 50% more sales-ready leads at 33% lower cost per lead, according to Forrester Research. The right gated content strategy can attract, nurture and close your highest-value leads.

In this episode, Paxton Gray and Jonathan Riemer discuss the value of gated content and how marketers should be thinking about where and why they choose to gate to maximize impact. 

• How to map your buyer’s journey to identify the best places for gated content;
• how to source unique, high-value content that your audience can’t get anywhere else;
• and how AI can change the gated content scene for a new generation of buyers.

https://97thfloor.com/articles/podcasts/gated-content/ 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanriemer 

"It is up to us as marketers to really understand where our audiences are and what's driving them. And that's the real answer between forming and not forming." - Jonathan Riemer

02:35 - Gated vs ungated debate

06:18 - "Kitchen sink" analogy for gating decisions

16:32 - AI transforming content personalization

20:19 - Avoiding AI-generated content noise

29:33 - Agentic content and personalized summaries

34:22 - Mid-funnel gating tips

In this episode, we’re joined by Karl Van den Bergh, 2024 Cybersecurity Marketer of the Year and CMO at Illumio, to talk about how marketing leaders can build credibility, keep budgets, and turn uncertainty into a competitive edge.

Karl shares the playbook he used to align marketing with the way sales is measured: building forecasts, hitting targets, and earning trust from even the ever-skeptical CFO. 

We’ll show you how to make the intangible measurable with the one-page marketing plan that maps business goals directly to marketing execution. 

If you’re trying to defend long-term strategy while your executive team needs short-term ROI, this episode will give you the language, framework, and tools to do it.

• The exact template Karl uses to connect every marketing move back to business objectives
• The most crucial thing that a CMO can do to build trust with other executives
• How a shift to treating marketing more like sales can transform internal perception and relationships

https://www.linkedin.com/in/karlvandenbergh 

https://97thfloor.com/articles/podcasts/how-to-build-predictable-marketing-the-c-suite-will-bet-on/ 

"If you want to be successful through a downturn and coming out of the downturn, is to take and maintain a long-term perspective... the bigger opportunity actually is to build your brand because the rest of the competition is likely to be doing the same." - Karl Van den Bergh

03:13 - Why CMO is the Hardest C-Suite Role

07:26 - Finding Growth During Economic Downturns

10:07 - Investing in Brand During Recessions

18:20 - Running Marketing Like Sales

26:02 - Marketing Dollars = Sales Investment

28:38 - The One-Page Marketing Plan

22:52 - First-Time CMO Survival Guide

If you’re investing in SEO but not seeing results, your content might be the problem.  

97th Floor’s Head of SEO, Mike Witham, built the Content Consolidation Audit to cut waste, boost rankings, and drive real results. 

In this episode of The Campaign, Mike joins 97th Floor CEO Paxton Gray to break down the audit process and show how consolidation and optimization can have an immediate impact on organic revenue. 

• How to fix SEO that isn't delivering results
• Strategies to recover from Google algorithm updates
• Best practices for site migrations and merges
• How to optimize legacy sites with complex content histories
• Solutions for "crawled, not indexed" page issues

https://97thfloor.com/articles/podcasts/how-to-consolidate-optimize-and-finally-see-seo-results/ 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-o-witham 

"The more content that you produce, the more you're going to stray from your core topic. And the harder it's going to be for crawlers for these LLMs to understand what it is you do." - Mike Witham

02:49 - What content consolidation audit is

07:19 - Benefits of consolidating content

10:20 - How thin content hurts AI visibility

16:42 - When to redirect vs. optimize pages

28:00 - Using Search Console to find problems

32:31 - Evaluating new content strategy

Ready or not, AI is about to radically reshape our work and our lives.

Over the next decade the stuff of sci-fi movies will be just another Tuesday. 

For CEOs and CMOs, understanding these changes and preparing now is critical. 

This isn’t just about adopting new technology—it’s about rethinking the fundamentals of how your business will function in an AI-driven world.

Understanding how AI will impact everything from SEO to advertising enables CMOs to create marketing strategies that can outlast any changes headed this way.

• The large-scale economic shifts AI will cause in the next decade
• What CEOs and CMOs need to prioritize today to stay competitive
• How CMOs can drive the full adoption of AI in their marketing teams

https://97thfloor.com/articles/podcasts/ai-is-rewriting-the-economy-what-cmos-ceos-must-do-to-survive/ 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/marie-haynes 

Google Agent Development Kit

"An agent is an AI tool that can do things for you, that can take action for you... agents can draw on your memory of what it knows about you in order to help you do things." - Marie Haynes

08:51 - What AI agents actually are beyond simple automation

18:16 - Google's agent-to-agent protocol announcement

26:28 - How agents will disrupt Google's entire business model

31:10 - Why businesses should start preparing now for the agent economy

39:35 - The future of SEO when AI handles basic optimization

43:46 - Brain-computer interfaces and what comes after agents

Marketing is more unpredictable than ever—ad costs rise, algorithms change, and audience behaviors shift overnight. But there’s one thing you can control: how effectively you convert the traffic you do get. 

That’s where CRO (conversion rate optimization) becomes your force multiplier—turning uncertainty into opportunity and making every marketing channel more profitable. 

• How to identify and guide high-intent vs. low-intent visitors to the right next step  
• Why behavioral segmentation is key to higher conversions, and how to do it
• The 80% rule that changes the game for continuous testing

https://97thfloor.com/articles/podcasts/how-to-get-more-roi-from-every-marketing-channel-with-cro/ 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/sollis 

"Usually without a doubt the lowest hanging fruit and opportunity to double leads, double revenue really quickly [is conversion optimization]." - Chad Sollis 

03:19 - Chad's 90-day battle plan: data, long-tail, CRO

07:48 - Actionable audience insights through clickstream analysis

14:59 - CRO testing framework: audience (70%), content, creative

19:29 - Accessibility as $8 trillion business opportunity

21:52 - AudioEye's three-pronged accessibility approach

24:05 - How accessibility boosts SEO and GEO

Search is changing fast, and AI is at the center of the disruption. 

With LLMs reshaping SERPs, Google's AI Mode on the horizon, and AI assistants claiming search share, SEOs have more to consider than ever before.

Marie Haynes is an expert SEO and AI Consultant known for her deep expertise in Google’s search algorithms and machine learning systems—including the intricacies of E-E-A-T. Marie is a fearless experimenter who thrives on exploring emerging tech. Now, she’s laser-focused on mastering Google's AI Mode and harnessing the power of LLMs like ChatGPT and Gemini to prepare her clients for a future where AI agents revolutionize the web.

Marie joins Paxton Gray to spell exactly what we do and don’t know about changes in search, and what SEOs should do to stay ahead.  

• A roadmap for navigating search changes through 2025.
• Clear priorities for where to focus your SEO efforts.
• A step-by-step framework to start experimenting with AI search.

https://97thfloor.com/articles/podcasts/ai-search-what-seos-need-to-know-and-do-right-now/ 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/marie-haynes 

"My barometer for is content good or not is if you took the content on your website and you removed it from the web, would the web be suffering?" - Marie Haynes

03:59 - SEO vs GEO debate: Are they different strategies?

08:22 - Building reputation as key to winning in AI search

13:46 - The decoupling of content and SEO in the AI era

18:01 - Tactical approaches to appear in AI responses

26:50 - Google's AI mode experiment and what to expect

32:03 - How brands can influence their AI representation

Everyone wants to be “data-driven.” But what does that actually look like when you’re a marketer without a data warehouse, a team of analysts, or endless resources?

In this episode, we talk with Gallant Chen, a marketing strategist who helps companies make better decisions with imperfect data. From messy attribution models to marketing CRMs that don’t talk to your ad platforms, we get honest about the real-world barriers marketers face—and how to work around them. If you’ve ever wasted hours in a spreadsheet or fought with your team over who “gets credit,” this one’s for you.

We’ll talk systems, shortcuts, and how to build the simplest version of a marketing data engine that actually drives results.

What you’ll learn:

• How to set up a marketing system that delivers insights—even if your tools are limited
• The dangers of over-optimizing for data (and when to just make a call and act)
• What kind of attribution model actually works for most marketing teams

Resources: 

• Connect with Gallant on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gallantc/ 
• Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/ 
• Check out Gallant’s work: https://gallant.co/
• Request a free AI Audit: https://97thfloor.com/ai-audit/ 
• Read the full article: https://97thfloor.com/articles/podcasts/how-to-actually-be-a-data-driven-marketer-without-a-data-team/ 
• Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/. 

About Gallant Chen: 

Gallant is the Founding Partner of Gallant Growth and a seasoned Marketing Executive with a track record of scaling growth for B2B SaaS and marketplace businesses.

He has served as an Advisor and Consultant for companies including Docusign, Shopify, New Relic, Mixpanel, Nutanix, Upwork, and Thumbtack on marketing strategy, customer acquisition, retention, and monetization. He has deep expertise in demand gen and paid acquisition, but also supports areas including the hiring of internal/agency teams, lifecycle and email marketing, CRO, marketing analytics, and marketing operations.

Prior to founding Gallant Growth, he ran Digital Marketing at Zendesk and held marketing roles at SurveyMonkey and Apple. He started his career as a strategy cons...

If your messaging isn’t clicking, your conversions won’t either.

In this episode, we’re joined by Chris Silvestri—conversion copywriter, SaaS strategist, and founder of Conversion Alchemy—to talk about how AI is changing the way top teams do message-market fit.

With a background in both engineering and UX, Chris has helped companies like Moz Crimes turn deep customer insight into high-performing SaaS copy. He shares how AI can accelerate—not replace—the research and writing process, and how to train it to think more like your customers than your competitors.

You’ll learn:

• How to use AI for smarter, faster customer research
• Why most messaging fails—and how to fix it with data
• How to align your copy with what your customers are actually thinking

Whether you're rewriting a homepage, launching a new product, or rethinking your entire brand voice, this episode will show you how to turn AI into your most valuable copywriting assistant.

Resources: 

Get a free scorecard to assess your messaging fit on Chris’ website here: conversionalchemy.net 

Connect with Chris on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christophersilvestri

Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/ 

AI platforms Chris uses for audience research:

https://www.syntheticusers.com

https://askrally.com

Read the full article:https://97thfloor.com/articles/podcasts/how-to-turn-customer-insight-into-high-converting-copy-with-ai↗

Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/. 

About Chris Silvestri: 

Chris is the Conversion Alchemist. A SaaS message-market fit specialist and conversion copywriter, he worked 10 years as a software engineer in industrial automation. Then, took a sharp turn to enter the digital marketing world as UX lead at the usability testing startup Conversion Crimes (and previously at the conversion design agency Zeda Labs). Chris has been working as a messaging strategist and copywriter for B2B SaaS brands like Moz since 2016.<...

Clicks aren’t enough. Today’s marketing funnels need to account for real user behavior, changing customer journeys, and how people find and interact with your brand in AI search engines.

In this episode, Adam Gunn, VP of Marketing at FullStory, joins 97th Floor CEO Paxton Gray to break down what a modern, optimized funnel really looks like. You’ll hear how to identify friction points, rethink old metrics, and build digital experiences that work for both humans and AI.

What You’ll Learn:

• How to use behavioral data to diagnose funnel issues
• Where AI is changing what marketers should track (and ignore)
• Which metrics actually matter—and which ones are misleading
• Why your site needs to be ready for AI agents, not just users

Adam Gunn is the VP of Marketing at FullStory, a behavioral analytics platform that’s changing the way teams understand and act on user behavior. He brings a unique perspective around data, storytelling, and how marketing teams can evolve alongside AI.

Resources: 

Request a free AI Audit: https://97thfloor.com/ai-audit/ 

Connect with Adam on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamgunn

Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/ 

Read the article: https://97thfloor.com/articles/podcasts/how-to-blend-brand-behavior-data-and-ai-to-win-in-modern-marketing/  

Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/.

"The future is customer-based agents surfing our website. Historically we've built all of our experiences for humans, but agents are often going to be now going out and doing business on our behalf... we'll have to build web experiences that serve the good traffic."

About Adam Gunn:
Adam Gunn is the VP of Marketing at FullStory, a behavioral analytics platform that’s changing the way teams understand and act on user behavior. He brings a unique perspective around data, storytelling, and how marketing teams can evolve alongside AI.

Timestamps:
02:35 - From Disney animator to marketing leader
06:51 - Creative skills in the boardroom
13:08 - "Rage clicks" and user frustration signals
23:44 - AI reality check vs. hype
31:47 - Reactive vs. proactive analytics
41:53 - Stay nimble for industry changes

In this episode Pax and Justin Loera discuss internal site search–a forgotten gold mine of data and audience insights to inform content strategy and sales enablement. Data from internal search can help improve conversion rates, reveal gaps in the content journey or optimization needs, and increase customer loyalty and trust as they find what they need right on your site.

• If your brand should be investing in internal site search
• The massive missed opportunities for companies that don’t take this seriously
• How to use internal site search data to make improvements for marketing, sales, and company-wide
• How to balance on-site search with traditional SEO

Request a free AIO Audit: http://97thfloor.com/ai-audit 

Connect with Justin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-loera-a156969 

Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/ 

Read the article: https://97thfloor.com/articles/podcasts/how-to-blend-brand-behavior-data-and-ai-to-win-in-modern-marketing/  

Read the article: https://97thfloor.com/articles/podcasts/internal-search-the-conversion-channel-youre-not-tracking↗

Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/.

02:43 - Which companies need internal search
05:44 - The data goldmine vs. Google Analytics
16:51 - Building the C-suite business case
23:53 - Teams that benefit from search data
25:15 - Breaking down team silos

"You could have the best search engine in the world, but if your content isn't good, it doesn't matter. And it's an inverse relationship too. You could have great content, poor search, and still have the same problem." - Justin Loera

As Google rolls out AI‑powered summaries at the top of search results, we’re seeing clicks on traditional blue links evaporate—and with them, the traffic and revenue models we’ve all relied on.

Kevin Indig and his team recently completed the very first large‑scale UX study of Google’s new AI Overviews, revealing how users are actually using the new SERP feature.

Kevin’s team tracked 70 real users across eight search tasks, captured 29 hours of think‑aloud sessions, and coded over 400 AI Overview encounters. They measured scroll depth, click behavior, emotional reactions, and trust signals—data no one else has compiled at this scale.

We’ll dig into what this study reveals about how people actually read AI Overviews, how brands can win—or lose—visibility in this new world, and what every SEO and content strategist needs to do right now to adapt.

• What makes users engage with AI Overviews — and what makes them bounce
• How this behavior is shifting the value of traditional SEO
• What kinds of queries are most affected
• Practical strategies to future-proof your content in an AI-first search world

Connect with Kevin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinindig/ 

Check out Kevin's study: https://www.growth-memo.com/p/the-first-ever-ux-study-of-googles 

Sign up for the Growth Memo Newsletter: https://www.growth-memo.com/subscribe?utm_source=menu&simple=true&next=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.growth-memo.com%2Fp%2Fthe-first-ever-ux-study-of-googles 

"Clicks are empty calories, which means that clicks are always just a means to an end... Only 20% of the time does the AIO give participants the final answer. But 80% of the time they clicked on other results, mostly organic results." - Kevin Indig

03:32 - Study design explanation

04:12 - Trust as primary user filter

11:48 - Clicks as "empty calories"

15:42 - Brand mentions vs citations

25:50 - "Answer first content" doesn't work

AI is everywhere. Budgets are tight. Audiences are skeptical. So how do you get people to actually trust your brand—and stick around?

In this episode, Ashley Faus joins us to talk about what trust really looks like in marketing today. We get into how common language like “lead capture” and “MQLs” is working against us, and why rethinking your buyer’s journey—starting with intent and ending with long-term value—can lead to better results.

We also talk about her new book, Human-Centered Marketing, and why building trust isn’t fluffy—it’s a strategic advantage.

Register now to attend live and to receive show notes and a special pre-order bonus from Ashley.

• What trends in public trust mean for marketers
• The language and practices marketers are using internally that hurt their chances for connecting with their audience
• A new way to think about the audience journey that honors the intelligence and curiosity of your audience 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyfaus/

If you'd like to buy Ashley's new book, you can order it here and get 25% off when you use code: KOGANPAGE25

https://97thfloor.com/articles/podcasts/why-trust-is-the-fastest-way-to-long-term-roi↗ 

"People trust people like themselves and people buy from people they trust. And so how do you showcase the humans? Which work remains important for the humans to do and having the thoughts and connecting with folks continues to be something that I think even in the age of AI is gonna be more important." - Ashley Faus

08:36 - Why trust is essential for business results

13:58 - The content playground vs. traditional funnel

20:54 - The case against gated content

23:13 - Data-informed vs. data-driven measurement

34:56 - Short vs. long-term content strategy

41:22 - Book discount and final takeaways

How Smart B2B Teams Evaluate, Launch, and Win on New Channels w/ Ryan Nelsen, CMO @ StackAdapt 

Most B2B marketers stick to LinkedIn and Google Ads, but buyers are everywhere. A multi-channel strategy ensures you reach them at the right time, in the right place.

In this episode of The Campaign, Ryan Nelsen, CMO of StackAdapt, joins 97th Floor’s CEO Paxton Gray to break down the Multi-Channel B2B Growth Framework—a step-by-step approach to mapping the buyer’s journey, selecting the right channels, and optimizing ad spend for maximum ROI. Plus, we’ll take you behind the scenes of a real-world campaign and show you exactly how we built and executed a high-performing multi-channel strategy.

• How to audit your current media mix to uncover untapped opportunities
• How to go beyond LinkedIn & Google—find your buyers where they actually spend time
• How to use programmatic advertising to optimize campaigns in real time and scale efficiently
• Real-world case study of how multi-channel strategies drive measurable results

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanelsen 

https://97thfloor.com/articles/podcasts/how-smart-b2b-teams-evaluate-launch-and-win-on-new-channels/ 

"It's such a fun time to be a marketer, to start literally the sky's the limit in terms of creativity and the ability to target and measure that." - Ryan Nelsen

06:52 - What spurs brands to add new channels

09:39 - Multi-channel conversion data and results

14:03 - Balancing brand vs. performance marketing

19:42 - Creative digital out-of-home trends

25:09 - How AI is lowering video creation costs

29:10 - Key takeaways for channel expansion

When Whitney joined Gorilla Logic a year ago, she inherited a team facing the same pressure every marketing organization feels right now: prove you're using AI or fall behind. But instead of chasing efficiency metrics, Whitney asked a harder question: "If we can't definitively say why it's making progress and showing up better and making incremental change that helps the bottom line, why are we doing it?"

Her solution was to stop the daily AI scrambling. Give the team four dedicated hours every two weeks to explore, experiment, and learn—with zero pressure to show immediate ROI.

In this episode, Whitney also shares hard-won lessons on leading teams through change, why "we're not saving lives" creates the psychological safety needed for innovation, and how to give team members space to bring their whole selves to work while still pushing for growth.

If you're tired of AI adoption theater and want to build a marketing team that actually innovates (instead of just moving faster), this episode offers a refreshingly honest roadmap.

Key takeaways for marketing leaders:

• The Swiss Army Marketer philosophy: Why the shift from specialist to generalist is essential for career growth, and how leaders can create opportunities for team members to expand beyond their comfort zones
• The contrarian positioning play: How Gorilla Logic differentiated itself by NOT jumping on the AI agent bandwagon, and why the market responded with relief instead of skepticism
• Getting marketing back to the C-suite: The two fundamental things holding marketers back from board-level conversations—and how to bridge the gap between marketing metrics and business goals

Resources: 

GorillaLogic.com 

Connect with Whitney on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/whitneygoldsteinmba/ 

Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/ 

Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/. 

About Whitney Goldstein:
With nearly 10 years of marketing experience, Whitney’s strategic direction as a B2B Marketing leader encompasses mission, vision, and strategy. Currently, Whitney serves as Director of Marketing at Gorilla Logic. 

Timestamps:

02:48 - Leading with truth and honesty when taking over a team

05:06 - The biggest mistakes marketing leaders make: moving too fast or too slow

13:38 - Why Gorilla Logic isn't "just another AI company"

18:46 - The dedicated exploration time approach: 4 hours every two weeks

35:20 - The Swiss Army Marketer: why specialists won't make it to the boardroom

43:50 - Creating space for teams: "This is PR, not ER"

Organic traffic is down. Click-through rates are dropping. And every marketer is panicking about whether their SEO strategy is dead. Mike Witham and Blake Nielson from 97th Floor's AI Task Force are here to set the record straight: 80% of what worked in SEO still works for AI search—but that 20% difference is critical.

In this tactical breakdown, Mike and Blake share what they're seeing across dozens of client accounts as they test, measure, and optimize for the new reality of AI-powered search. Spoiler: if you're still only measuring organic traffic, you're missing the entire story.

Key takeaways for marketers:

• The new KPI framework: Why impression data, brand mentions, and citations matter more than organic traffic now—and how to track them in Google Search Console
• The follow-up search strategy: How to identify and measure the branded queries that happen after someone reads about you in an AI overview (and why this is your new conversion path)
• Topic clusters 2.0: Why the old hub-and-spoke model isn't enough—you need cohesive messaging across product pages, blog posts, comparison pages, AND social profiles for LLMs to validate your authority

Resources: 

- Request a free AI Search Audit: https://97thfloor.com/ai-audit/ 

- Connect with Mike Witham on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-o-witham/ 

- Connect with Blake Nielson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blakejnielson/ 

- Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/ 

- Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/. 

About Mike Witham: Mike Witham is the Head of Search at 97th Floor, where he has spent the past seven years leading SEO strategy and performance for enterprise and high-growth brands. Based in Lehi, UT, he specializes in building data-driven search campaigns that achieve bottom-line results for clients. With his ability to create holistic, full-funnel marketing campaigns, Mike helps teams turn organic search into a highly profitable, revenue-driving channel.

About Blake Nielson: Blake Nielson is the Head of Accounts at 97th Floor, where he partners with enterprise and high-growth brands to turn organic search into a measurable revenue channel. With deep expertise in SEO and AI search, he helps clients translate complex shifts in the search landscape into clear business strategy. Blake specializes in building strong client relationships, aligning teams around growth goals, and making sure every campaign ties back to bottom-line results.

Timestamps:

1:13 - AI search vs. SEO

5:22 - Measuring impact in the AI age

10:47 - Follow-up searches & Search Console

16:05 - Rethinking topic clusters

23:31 - Offsite strategy: Reddit, YouTube, LinkedIn

30:18 - Hot takes & schema markup experiment

Most B2B marketers are missing a goldmine of audience insights hiding in plain sight. While everyone flocks to LinkedIn, 68% of Reddit users aren't even on the platform—meaning there's a massive chunk of your audience having authentic conversations about their real problems elsewhere.

Deep tech CMO Kiersten Gaffney has cracked the code on mining Reddit for content that actually converts. In this episode, she reveals her systematic approach to turning Reddit threads into pillar content that resonates with technical audiences.

What You'll Learn:

• The Reddit advantage: Why Reddit conversations are more honest and actionable than other social platforms
• Kiersten's listening workflow: Her exact process using tools like Octolens to track keywords across Reddit, Hacker News, and other platforms
• AI-powered content creation: How she uses Claude and ChatGPT strategically—one for research, one for writing—to turn insights into content
• The 70% success rate formula: Her systematic approach that delivers results 7 out of 10 times
• Technical audience secrets: Why developers and engineers hate being sold to and how to market to them authentically

Resources: 

Attend a free 60-minute live demo with Kiersten on September 12, 2025 to see her whole in-depth process for transforming tiny insights into incredible content.

Register here: https://maven.com/p/a3bef8/turn-dev-complaints-into-content-gold-with-ai

Request a free AI Audit: https://97thfloor.com/ai-audit/ 

Connect with Kiersten on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kierstengaffney 

Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/ 

Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/. 

About Kiersten Gaffney:
Kiersten Gaffney is a CMO advisor helping deep tech software companies build their marketing growth engines. She’s advised hundreds of founders from companies like Airbyte, DragonflyDB, and Codefresh to build systematic, measurable approaches to marketing.

Timestamps:
03:05 - Reddit's honest opinions vs. other platforms

07:23 - Keyword monitoring with Octalens tool

08:31 - AI analysis: Reddit threads to content ideas

20:55 - Director vs. directed: controlling AI tools

25:28

Most marketers think they know their audience — but they stop at surface-level demographics and wonder why their campaigns plateau. In this conversation, Rachel Bascom and Paxton Gray break down what it really means to be audience-first, why the “big research lift” mindset is holding you back, and how to turn existing knowledge into exponential results over time.

If you’ve ever felt stuck in the “research → big deck → nothing changes” loop, this episode will change how you think about audience understanding. You’ll walk away with a practical, ongoing approach to learning about your audience — and turning that knowledge into high-performing creative, content, and campaigns.

Resources: 

FREE Content Consolidation Tools: https://97thfloor.com/articles/podcasts/how-to-consolidate-optimize-and-finally-see-seo-results/ 

Learn about how to create high-quality content that is audience-focused: https://97thfloor.com/articles/high-quality-content-or-ai-slop/ 

Connect with Rachel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelbascom/ 

Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/ 

Read the full article: https://97thfloor.com/articles/podcasts/audience-first-marketing-the-new-standard-for-growth 

Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/. 

About Rachel Bascom:
Rachel Bascom is the Head of Content Marketing at 97th Floor, boasting over a decade of expertise in the realm of digital marketing and a fervent dedication to crafting audience-centric content strategies. In her tenure, Rachel has been a trailblazer in the development of the content marketing department, playing an integral role in the transformative journey that positioned 97th Floor as a comprehensive, award-winning, holistic marketing agency. 

Timestamps: 

02:27 - What it means to truly know your audience

12:43 - The zodiac campaign breakthrough

18:22 - "It's cumulative, not cyclical"

24:17 - Start by auditing what you already have

27:35

CMOs are more optimistic about AI than ever—yet many organizations are still stuck at the starting line. In this episode, Aby Varma, founder of Spark Novus, joins us to share how marketing leaders can move from AI curiosity to meaningful adoption. Drawing on real-world examples from Fortune 500 companies, Aby reveals why asking “Can AI do this?” is the wrong place to start, how to build a strategy anchored in business value, and what cultural shifts are essential for lasting change.

If you’re a marketing leader looking to integrate AI into your team’s workflows without the chaos, this conversation will give you the mindset, frameworks, and practical steps you need.

What You’ll Learn:

• The four mindset shifts CMOs must make to drive effective AI adoption.
• How to align AI initiatives with your strategic “North Star” for maximum impact.
• Proven ways to overcome internal resistance and build a culture of AI experimentation.

Resources: 

FREE Content Consolidation Tools: https://97thfloor.com/articles/podcasts/how-to-consolidate-optimize-and-finally-see-seo-results/ 

Request a free AI Audit: https://97thfloor.com/ai-audit/ 

Join Spark Novus's Marketing AI Pulse Community: https://sparknovus.com/marketing-ai-pulse

Connect with Aby on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/abyvarma/ 

Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/ 

Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/. 

About Aby Varma:
Aby is the founder and principal at Spark Novus, transforming marketing through AI, digital, content, and brand strategies. He aligns marketing, sales, and product teams to drive brand positioning and demand activation. Known for his strategic vision and energy, Aby builds inclusive, high-performing teams.

He advances AI in marketing through the 'Marketing AI SparkCast' podcast and as the founder of the Marketing AI Pulse and Future Crafters communities. Aby is a member of the Forbes Communication Council.

Timestamps:
02:51 - Why "Can AI do this?" is the wrong question

06:22 - Enterprise case study: asset management vs. cold pr...

In this conversation, Pax and Nick Cawthon explore the evolution of technology, particularly focusing on the impact of AI on workplaces and team dynamics. They discuss the importance of adapting to new technologies, the challenges of AI adoption, and the need for collaboration and skill augmentation within teams. Nick emphasizes the significance of understanding the hype cycle surrounding new technologies and the necessity of preparing teams for future transformations. The conversation also touches on the role of surveys in assessing AI readiness and the importance of fostering a culture that embraces change.

FREE Content Consolidation Tools: https://97thfloor.com/articles/podcasts/how-to-consolidate-optimize-and-finally-see-seo-results/ 

Request a free AI Audit: https://97thfloor.com/ai-audit/ 

Connect with Nick on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickcawthon-ux-digital-agency-product-design-leadership/ 

Fill out Nick’s AI Maturity Assessment to receive a report with a readiness score benchmarking your team against similar organizations: https://retrain.gauge.io/ 

Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/ 

Read the full article: https://97thfloor.com/articles/podcasts/how-to-lead-your-team-through-the-ai-shift/ 

Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/. 

Nick helps design teams stay ahead of the curve with their AI transformation. He has been curating self-assessments for UX & Design Teams at retrain.gauge.io, helping analyze industry trends and removing barriers to adoption. Nick founded Gauge in 2001 in the San Francisco Bay Area to help organizations with evidence-based strategy and product decisions. Clients have grown to include Electronic Arts, Genentech, Airbnb, Adobe and many others. Nick is a professor in Data Literacy and Visualization in the Design Strategy MBA program at his alma mater, California College of the Arts.

02:38 - Early tech career lessons from AltaVista to Google transition 

06:55 - Internet paradigm shifts and building for new vs. old thinking 

12:30 - AI workflow changes with prompting replacing search s...

In this conversation, Patrick Kajirian shares his extensive experience in enterprise SEO, particularly in large organizations like Walmart and Disney. He discusses the unique challenges and strategies involved in managing SEO at scale, including the importance of product management, indexation, and internal linking. The conversation also explores the impact of AI and new agentic browsers on the future of SEO and digital marketing, emphasizing the need for adaptability and a focus on fundamentals in an evolving landscape.

Resources: 

Request a free AI Audit: https://97thfloor.com/ai-audit/ 

Connect with Patrick on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickkajirian/  

Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/ 

Read the full article: https://97thfloor.com/articles/podcasts/seo-at-scale-how-enterprise-seo-works-and-where-ai-is-taking-it/ 

Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/. 

About Patrick Kajirian:
Patrick Kajirian honed his career in technology and media in a broad range of roles that involved managing a full-service web design agency, operating world-class e-commerce and media websites, and driving user acquisition initiatives for global brands and fortune 500 companies. Patrick facilitated over a million daily Google searches as a principal product manager for SEO at Realtor.com. He currently works as a senior product manager in SEO at Walmart in the San Francisco Bay area.

Timestamps:
02:26 - Enterprise SEO as a product function vs marketing function

06:24 - Google's indexation challenges and internal linking strategies at scale 

16:47 - AI agents and agentic browser automation discussion 

30:38 - Disney and ESPN migration war stories 

46:51 - Traffic quality vs quantity in the AI era

"This is a really great time to be thinking about SEO in general... We're thrown back into the Wild West days where you just had to study and test and experiment and see what works. The fundamentals are still the same." - Patrick Kajirian

What does it take to build groundbreaking companies across three decades of tech evolution? Daniel Nissan, founder of Structured (formerly Structured Web), made the first internet phone call in 1993, launched the first nationwide grocery delivery service before Amazon, and is now rebuilding his 26-year-old platform from for the AI era.

In this episode, Daniel shares hard-won lessons from the frontlines of innovation—from cold-emailing the CEO of FedEx to secure a nationwide delivery partnership, to navigating two major market crashes, to recognizing when "bolting on" AI isn't enough.

Key takeaways for marketing leaders:

• Why "AI-first" requires a complete rebuild: Learn the difference between bolting on AI features versus architecting for conversational interfaces from the ground up
• Timing the market: Daniel's framework for knowing when to jump on emerging technology (even when it feels too early)
• Building conviction in your team: How to rally skeptical teams around radical platform changes and get them to believe the impossible is possible

Daniel also reveals his prediction for when AI will finally be able to generate human-approved marketing content at scale—and why the real transformation comes when AI moves from generative to agentic.

If you're a marketing leader wondering how to think about AI beyond the hype, this conversation offers a rare perspective from someone who's successfully navigated multiple technology revolutions.

Resources: 

See what Daniel’s up to at https://structured.ai/. 

Find Daniel Nissan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielnissan/ 

Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/ 

Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/. 

About Daniel Nissan:
Daniel founded Structured in 1999 and leads the company’s strategic vision across marketing, engineering, and product development efforts. From 1996 to 1999, Daniel was the President and CEO of NetGrocer, which he led to be a highly recognized and established leader in the field of eCommerce. He served as a Vice President of Marketing for VocalTec Communications, Ltd. (VOCL) from 1993 to 1996. Part of the original VocalTec group that created the Internet Phone, Daniel was responsible for its breakthrough product concept, marketing, and strategy development.

Timestamps:

04:27 - Why join a "stupid idea" startup

05:03 - Making the first VoIP call

51:20 - Traditional platforms vs AI conversation

52:38 - Agentic AI timeline

55:10 - Getting teams to believe

57:50 - The lamplighter analogy

Most B2B marketers are stuck playing it safe, following "best practices" that guarantee mediocre results. Udi Ledergor, former CMO of Gong and author of Courageous Marketing, has spent his career doing the opposite—running Super Bowl ads for 5% of the expected cost, getting Times Square billboards for $500, and building a marketing machine that made Gong impossible to ignore.

In this conversation, Udi breaks down the exact six-step formula he's used repeatedly to make companies appear years ahead of where they actually are—and why this matters more than ever for early-stage companies trying to cross the chasm to enterprise buyers.

Key takeaways for B2B marketers:

• The six-step formula for punching above your weight: How to leverage iconic advertising mediums (Times Square, Wall Street Journal, Super Bowl) for a fraction of what you'd expect—then amplify that investment through your owned channels and employee networks
• Getting experimental budgets approved: Why every marketing budget should have a 10% line item for "marketing experiments" and the two arguments that get it past skeptical CFOs every time
• Attribution without obsession: How Udi used Gong's own platform to track that 452 sales conversations mentioned their Super Bowl ad—and why you shouldn't let attribution fears stop bold campaigns
• Sales as your secret creative weapon: Why Gong's best content marketers were former salespeople, not traditional marketers, and how to tap into your sales team's market knowledge
• AI for creativity (the right way): Kyle Lacy's framework for using ChatGPT in brainstorming—get 10 ideas, table them all, then create something original

Udi also addresses when it's time to move on from a company that won't let you be courageous, how to vet product-market fit before joining a startup, and why the "medium is the message" principle is more powerful than ever in an era of digital dashboards.

If you're tired of blending in with every other B2B company and want permission (plus a playbook) to do something bold, this episode is your rallying cry.

Resources: 

Get your copy of Courageous Marketing: The B2B Marketer’s Playbook for Career Success here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F22HWR3C 

See what Gong can do for your business: https://www.gong.io/ 

Follow Udi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/udiledergor/ 

Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/ 

Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/. 

About Udi Ledergor: 

Udi Ledergor, a five-time B2B marketing leader, served as CMO during Gong’s rise from new SaaS startup to industry dominance. By building a playful, human-centric brand with a lighthearted tone, he captured buyers’ attention and dollars and turned them into raving fans. He later led the creation of the revenue intelligence category, which helped Gong go from zero to hundreds of millions in revenue, earning major industry awards and achieving a multi-billion-dollar valuation. Over his 20-year career, Udi has led marketing teams at successful companies, advised startups, served as a board member and angel investor, and mentored hundreds of marketers. His work reveals how courage and creativity can build iconic brands, connect with audiences, and drive measurable results.

Timestamps...

Most early-stage startups fail at the same place: they can't figure out marketing. Sterling Snow, former CMO at Divvy (acquired for $2.5B), has cracked the code on what actually works when you're searching for your first scalable channel—and it's not what the playbooks tell you.

Sterling calls it "the haystack phase"—that brutal early period where you're testing everything, burning through budget, and desperately searching for the needle of a channel that actually works. Most marketers try to be "data-driven" during this phase, which Sterling argues is impossible when you have no data yet.

In this tactical conversation, Sterling shares the unconventional approaches that took Divvy from zero to acquisition and what he's building at Redo with AI-powered personalization at scale.

Key takeaways for marketing leaders:

• The haystack phase framework: Why activity (not analysis) is what matters when searching for your first scalable channel.
• Creating proprietary lead flow: The newsletter sponsorship story that became Divvy's #1 channel for years (before everyone else figured it out).
• Comp marketers on revenue: Sterling's controversial take on why marketing should be paid one level deeper in the funnel.
• Zigging when everyone zags: Why Sterling believes the rise of AI search means doubling down on high-touch, human interactions (micro-events, partnerships, in-person)—the exact opposite of what most marketers are doing.

Sterling also addresses what he looks for when hiring "haystack phase" marketers (hint: it's the 14-year-old who 5x'd his lawn mowing business through guerrilla tactics), why he believes freemium can work if you're creative enough to monetize usage, and how marketing team composition needs to shift from "button-pushers" to strategists and orchestrators.

If you're tired of being told to follow best practices that produce mediocre results, this episode is a masterclass in finding alpha where others aren't looking.

Resources: 

See what Sterling is building at https://redo.com/en 

Connect with Sterling on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sterling-snow-051baab5/ 

Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/ 

Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/. 

About Sterling Snow:
Sterling Snow is the CEO and Co-founder of Redo, a customer experience platform for online brands.

He's a member of Utah's oldest and largest early-stage venture firm.

He was a former Senior VP or Revenue at BILL, a former Chief Revenue Officer at Divvy, and a former Marketing and Sales Director at LogMeln.

Sterling is also an angel investor mainly in the seed and Series A rounds His investment portfolio includes Kaedim (AI for 2D and 3D image modeling) and Trinsic (full-stack identity platform).

Timestamps:

00:41 - The haystack phase: activity beats strategy

04:07 - Creating proprietary channels vs. following playbooks

05:25 - The $1,000 newsletter ad that changed everything

26:23 - Why SDRs are becoming extinct

28:42 - Making freemium actually profitable

The Apple-Gemini announcement changed everything—but not in the way most people think. Eli Schwartz, author of Product-Led SEO, explains why this partnership doesn't signal the death of SEO but rather Google's complete dominance over search for the foreseeable future.

In this wide-ranging conversation, Eli challenges nearly every assumption marketers hold about SEO in 2026. From why your thin content strategy is obsolete to why some multi-billion dollar companies shouldn't spend a dime on SEO (while others should spend freely), Eli offers a refreshingly honest take on what's actually changing versus what's just hype.

Key takeaways for marketers:

• The expanding definition of SEO: Why your smart alarm clock, car dashboard, and eventually your pillow will all be search surfaces you need to optimize for
• The 2020 vs. 2026 playbook: Why generic listicles ("top winter vacations") are dead, and personal, emotional, middle-of-funnel content is where SEO belongs now
• The pizza shop principle: How online and offline worlds are finally aligning—you wouldn't walk into a diner for the best pizza, so why try to rank for everything online?
• Bottom-line goals vs. mushy emotional goals: The two types of SEO objectives every company has (including making sure the CEO sees you rank when they Google on the way to work)
• Who shouldn't invest in SEO: The framework for deciding if your company should spend money on SEO (hint: if you're Boeing selling F-35s, the answer is complicated)

Resources: 

Sign up for Eli’s newsletter at productledSEO.com 

Connect with Eli Schwartz on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/schwartze/ 

Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/ 

Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/. 

About Eli Schwartz: 

Eli Schwartz is an SEO expert and consultant with over a decade of experience driving SEO and growth programs for B2B and B2C companies. 

Eli’s clients have included WordPress, Shutterstock, BlueNile, and Zendesk, all of which he has helped build Global SEO strategies to increase organic conversions at scale. 

He is the author of the book Product Led SEO.

Timestamps:

02:03 - SEO is everywhere

03:58 - Why Google won 

11:22 - How to invest in SEO in 2026

13:45 - The content playbook shift

19:36 - When NOT to invest in SEO

26:56 - LLM visibility is brand budget

With AI making it easier than ever to launch startups, B2B SaaS companies are facing an unprecedented wave of competition. Bill Macaitis, former CMO of Slack and Zendesk, shares exactly what marketers need to do in 2026 to not just survive—but dominate.

Bill brings decades of experience taking companies from startup to IPO, and his perspective on what's coming is both sobering and energizing. The old B2B playbook of white papers, analyst relations, and enterprise sales cycles isn't going to cut it anymore. The companies that win will be the ones bold enough to rebuild their entire go-to-market strategy.

Key takeaways for B2B SaaS marketers:

• Why brand is your competitive moat: How to measure brand metrics (aided recall, sentiment, share of voice) and prove ROI to skeptical boards—including the hidden impact on deal velocity, deal size, and churn
• Put your marketing where the eyeballs actually are: Why B2B marketers need to stop hiding behind "serious" channels and start creating content on TikTok, YouTube, and Instagram (with tactical examples)
• The pricing revolution: Why per-user pricing is dying and how to transition to usage-based, outcome-based, or token-based models before your competitors do it first
• Product-led sales for mid-market: How to combine freemium with enterprise upsells by differentiating on compliance features (not functionality) to mine product-qualified leads

Bill also addresses the fear many B2B marketers have about being "too consumer-like" with their marketing, explaining why that risk-averse thinking is exactly what will make you invisible in an overcrowded market.

If you're planning your 2026 strategy and wondering whether to play it safe or go bold, this episode makes a compelling case for the latter.

Resources: 

Follow Bill’s YouTube Channel SaaS CMO Pro: https://www.youtube.com/@SaaSCMOPro 

Find Bill Macaitis on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bmacaitis/ 

Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/ 

Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/. 

About Bill Macaitis:
Bill Macaitis has led marketing and growth for the three of the fastest ever growing SaaS companies. At Slack he served as the CRO leading up the marketing, sales, success and support teams. Before that he served as the CMO of Zendesk taking the company through a successful IPO. Before that he served as SVP of Marketing for Salesforce where he helped grow revenues to $3B. Currently, Bill serves as board advisor and independent board member to aspiring unicorns and decacorns.

Timestamps:

01:48 - Brand is your only real moat

08:58 - Move B2B marketing to social + video

12:53 - Stop being boring; buyers are people

18:01 - SEO is dying; shift to AIO

21:32 - Use AI imagery when it improves UX

28:34 - Product-led sales makes deals easier

While everyone's talking about AI, very few are actually making it work. Marie Haynes, renowned SEO expert and AI experimentalist, is one of the rare practitioners who's gone beyond the hype—building 50+ custom AI tools (gems), testing workflows daily, and learning what actually ships versus what crashes and burns.

In this candid conversation, Marie shares the unglamorous reality of AI implementation: the deleted emails, the abandoned projects, the hours of frustration—and why pushing through that wall is the only way to gain an unfair advantage.

Key takeaways for marketing leaders:

• The 5% rule: Why most AI projects fail and what separates the builders who succeed from those who give up after the first failure
• User signals over algorithm optimization: Why understanding vector search can actually hurt your SEO if you're not paying attention to engagement metrics
• The code-without-coding revolution: How Marie went from zero programming knowledge to building custom tools in weeks (and why every marketer should learn to "vibe code")
• Agents vs. gems: What's actually ready for production right now versus what's still 6-12 months away from being reliable

Marie also addresses the elephant in the room: Is the AI bubble real? With Gartner predicting 40% of current AI projects will be canceled by 2027, she shares why she's betting her investment portfolio entirely on AI companies—and what signals she's watching from industry leaders like Zuckerberg and Musk.

If you're exhausted by AI hype but still believe there's something real underneath, this episode cuts through the noise with hard-earned lessons from someone actually building in the trenches.

Resources: 

Learn about Marie’s work and join her community at https://www.mariehaynes.com/ 

Google’s Python Class: https://developers.google.com/edu/python 

Google’s Agent Development Kit: https://google.github.io/adk-docs/ 

Connect with Marie on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marie-haynes 

Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/ 

Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/. 

About Marie Haynes:
Marie Haynes is a leading expert in AI and Search. She helps her clients prepare for agentic search, surfacing more often in LLM tools like ChatGPT and using AI in their workflows.

Timestamps:

01:26 - Working on AI agents and Google's development course 

04:34 - AI overviews change every 2 days

06:10 - Industry missing user interaction signals 

41:11 - AI creating work-free future 

43:51 - Tips: Use LLMs daily, learn to code

A staggering 41% of marketers admit they don't do audience research nearly enough, and over half do it very infrequently. In this conversation, SparkToro co-founder Rand Fishkin breaks down why audience research has become marketing's orphaned responsibility and what it's costing companies in missed opportunities.

From Fortune 500s sitting on unused data to marketers relying on ChatGPT for audience insights, Rand reveals the systematic problems preventing teams from understanding their customers. He shares how his own company discovered their biggest growth opportunity by actually talking to users, and why the channels you can't easily measure might be your biggest competitive advantage.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why audience research consistently falls through the cracks
• The hidden dangers of using AI for customer insights 
• How to identify the most underinvested marketing channels 

Resources: 

• Try Sparktoro for audience research: https://sparktoro.com/ 
• Request a free AI Audit: https://97thfloor.com/ai-audit/ 
• Connect with Rand on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/randfishkin 
• Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/ 
• Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/. 

About Rand Fishkin:
Rand Fishkin is the co-founder and CEO of audience research platform SparkToro and indie game developer Snackbar Studio. He’s dedicated his professional life to helping people do better marketing through the Whiteboard Friday video series, his blog, and his book, Lost and Founder: A Painfully Honest Field Guide to the Startup World.

Rand was previously the cofounder of Moz, and Inbound.org, and a co-author on The Art of SEO. He’s keynoted over 100 events around the world on marketing, technology, and startup topics.

Timestamps:
00:08 - Problem with audience research adoption 

03:24 - SEO analogy for audience research 

10:20 - Who should own audience research 

19:17 - AI's role in audience research 

31:35 - Serendipitous insights from research 

39:51 - Google, AI, and search trends

“I want to know who my potential customers are and what they do on the web so that I can target, reach them with the best possible messaging in the best places at the right time. That's marketing 101.” - Rand Fishkin

Matt Frisbee went from Disney performer to marketing executive, and is one of the best storytellers around. In this conversation, Matt breaks down the art of storytelling in marketing, shares how he built breakthrough campaigns at Little Giant Ladder Systems, and explains why "feeling understood is the sexiest feeling in the universe."

This is a masterclass in taking calculated risks, doing the deep research work that most people skip, and why feeling understood by a brand is what drives real customer loyalty. 

What You’ll Learn:

• The "Queen Vicky" Method - Build your entire strategy around one real customer instead of fictional personas
• The Dangerous Jobs Breakthrough - Why respecting your audience beats safety messaging (and how it stole market share from giants)
• The COVID Studio Innovation - How a 9-camera setup got Zoom asking questions and kept sales growing during lockdown

Resources: 

"Story" by Robert McKee - Matt's go-to storytelling reference

"So God Made a Farmer" Super Bowl ad - Perfect example of honoring an underappreciated audience

FREE Content Consolidation Tools: https://97thfloor.com/articles/podcasts/how-to-consolidate-optimize-and-finally-see-seo-results/ 

Request a free AI Audit: https://97thfloor.com/ai-audit/ 

Connect with Matt on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewfrisbie/ 

Connect with Paxton on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paxtongray/ 

Looking for an agency that'll be worth the investment? 97th Floor creates custom, audience-first campaigns that drive pipeline and conversions. Get started here: https://97thfloor.com/lets-talk/. 

About Matt Frisbie:
Matt Frisbie started his career as a classically trained illustrator at Disney, where he learned that a picture truly is worth a thousand words – but more importantly, he learned how to architect experiences that make people want to participate in a story. After a stint in Hollywood selling films, Matt found his way into marketing, where he discovered that brands tell stories just as powerful as any movie – stories about solving problems and transforming lives.

As CMO at companies including Blendtec and Little Giant Ladder Systems, Matt has overseen marketing strategies that don't just move products – they move people. He's currently leading marketing at Axomo, a go-to-mark...