Subjects in Process – Détails, épisodes et analyse

Jonathan and Jeff are finally back with a conversation that picks up the threads that were left in the previous episode's topics of Daoist philosophy and technology. Jeff asks Jon if he's seen Spirited Away and tries to make a connection without revealing too much (since as of the time of the recording, Jon had no seen it). They discuss their mutual friend Troy. Digging into their admittedly surface-level understanding of Daoism, they discuss some key themes as they relate to our desire and longing for a worthwhile existence. Jeff suggests there is an empathetic element to Bo Burnham's song about white women on Instagram that is connected to his deeper critique of technology. This leads to a brief inquiry into whether all comedians were nihilists or not -- they suggest that the late great Norm MacDonald did not seem to be. 

They circle back to the anarchic underpinnings of Daoist philosophy. They talk about the differences between morality and virtue (in the Daoist sense). They link the Daoist resistance to social norms to Nietzsche's concept of the Apollonian and the Dionysian. Jeff talks about the difference between Bacchus as exhuberance and fecundity (at least as he appears in the Narnian Universe) and Dionysius as destruction and death drive (at least as he appears in Nietzsche). Jon and Jeff bring up (and disagree about) the difference between an understanding of the Way as a kind of origin versus an understanding of it as a kind of ideal. Jeff reflects on the relation of anxiety and Lacanian psychoanalytical thought and the Daoist concept of the uncarved block. 

During the second half, they again debate whether the Way is about returning to an originary state of non-striving or whether it is about finding what is nourishing. They discuss the difference between dopamine hits (like if Troy likes one of Jeff's tweets) and true satisfaction or contentment. They return to the topic of technology and its positioning ideologically as a mechanism for freeing us from toil. They talk about the similarities and differences between Daoist and Christian thought. Jon talks about the disgusting way Dale Carnegie's book about winning friends has been used in the business world. Jeff asks about whether evolutionary thought is working to leave certain Victorian-era metaphors behind, and Jon talks about the role of reciprocity in nature and its relationship to the idea of contentment. Jeff finishes with the story of how he recently acquired a stack of books on eastern philosophy (and some other stuff).

Got something to say? Email us at subjectsinprocesspodcast@gmail.com

Show Notes

Tao Te Ching, by Lao Tzu

Taoism: The Parting of the Way, by Holmes Welch Jr.

Spirited Away (Film)

"White Woman's Instagram" by Bo Burnham

Mythos, by Stephen Fry

The Birth of Tragedy, by Friedrich Nietzsche

Prince Caspian, by C.S. Lewis

Happiness is Not a Fish You Can Catch, by Our Lady Peace

How to Win Friends and Influence People, by Dale Carnegie

10,000 Dreams Interpreted

Music 

Theme Music: "What u Thinkin? (Instrumental)" by Wataboi on Pixabay 

Intermission Music: "Lazy Morning" by Tim Moor on Pixabay

Jonathan and Jeff continue their discussion of technology and the dilemma of how technology makes things easier, which simultaneously undermines the activities that lead to meaning (e.g., habit-building, etc.). Building off of Alan Jacobs's essay that we raised last time, they discuss the Hong Kong-Berlin philosopher, Yuk Hui, and his idea of cosmotechnics. They discuss the nefarious efforts of technology to capitalize on our fascination with The New; the history of Diet Coke (it's related to Newness); James K.A. Smith, his "cultural liturgies" series, and the centrality of habit-building to the human experience; the sources of our comfort foods; the role of being persistently committed to the mundane; the relationship between habits and the contextual webs that promote or undermine their formation; where does meaning come from and exist; tips on how to navigate complicated books (tl;dr: read a review!); they go into detail about Yuk Hui's initial argument in The Question Concerning Technology, including the role of the Promethean myth in the development of the Western cosmotechnic; how our worldview are shaped by stories, our communities, and other things; whether it's even possible to tell or submit to new stories that shape our orientation to the world; the possibility (or lack thereof) of converting to Eastern Orthodox theology; the way our communities shape our eschatologies; Jeff tries out his Rob Bell impersonation and also riffs on a potential "business fiction" idea; driving fast on the autobahn; the work Chile is doing on its new constitution; Ratatouille; the scandal of particularity vs novelty; Yuk Hui's "new understanding of history"; the inner lives of wolves — with a quick side discussion on Timothy Morton's hyperobjects; and Jeff teases an amazing story about an encounter with the Dao that you’ll only be able to hear if you listen to the next episode! If you would like to send us a note, email us at subjectsinprocesspodcast@gmail.com. Show Notes Alan Jacobs, "From Tech Critique to Ways of Living," The New Atlantis: https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/from-tech-critique-to-ways-of-living James K.A. Smith, You Are What You Love Yann Martel, Life of Pi Yuk Hui, The Question Concerning Technology in China Martin Heidegger, The Question Concerning Technology Rick Riordan, The Lightning Thief Mary Shelley, Frankenstein C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce The Heretic (Documentary): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7174366/ John Green, Turtles All the Way Down Music Theme Music: "What u Thinkin? (Instrumental)" by Wataboi on Pixabay Intermission Music: "Lazy Morning" by Tim Moor on Pixabay

After several episodes discussing more-or-less one subject, Jonathan and Jeff are moving on to something else! Maybe this really is subjects-in-progress after all!

Using Derek DelGaudio's philosophical magic show, In and Of Itself, as a springboard (and avoiding spoilers), Jonathan and Jeff walk through a very high-level history of philosophy (Heraclitus, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Nietzsche, and a sprinkling of others) and discuss the pursuit and discovery of meaning. The conversation is somewhat wide-ranging, briefly touching on an old band Jeff was in called Imitators of the Third Kind, the differences between "chair-ness" and "chairs," the Heraclitean leanings of Disney's Pocahontas, the Resurrection and "the scandal of particularity," the relation of the universal and the particular and its role in creating meaning, apophasis/cataphasis, and a strong closing recommendation to not be a Sophist (or at least not every day). Lots of stuff in the show notes on this one! 

Stay tuned for Jeff's movie pitch: "In a world where someone's trying to kill Socrates..." 

Show Notes: 

• Derek DelGaudio's In and Of Itself: https://store.cineplex.com/Product/derek-delgaudios-in-of-itself 
• The Incredible Burt Wonderstone: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0790628/ 
• Gerard Manley Hopkins, "That Nature is a Heraclitean Fire and of the Comfort of the Resurrection": https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44397/that-nature-is-a-heraclitean-fire-and-of-the-comfort-of-the-resurrection 
• Ivan Illich, "The Scopic Past and the Ethics of the Gaze": http://www.davidtinapple.com/illich/1998_scopic_past.PDF 
• Madeleine L'Engle, A Wind in the Door: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Wind_in_the_Door 
• Annabel Lyon, The Golden Mean: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/104824/the-golden-mean-by-annabel-lyon/ 
• Viktor Frankel, Man's Search for Meaning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man%27s_Search_for_Meaning 
• New cell imaging technology: https://youtu.be/9euW5iCjKDo 

Music: 

Theme Music: "What u Thinkin? (Instrumental)" by Wataboi on Pixabay 

Intermission Music: Dan Henig, "Subway Dreams," YouTube Audio Library

In today’s episode, Jeff and Jonathan discuss if the economic concept of "barriers to entry" might be useful for articulating concerns beyond the market. The conversation considers if upbringing, access to capital, supportive relationships and community, or personal principles could be thought of as "barriers to entry" that should be considered when considering if markets are running fairly and effectively. 

They touch on statistical trends related to the concentration of wealth through history, whether a cow can be an anti-depressant, how the movie Barnyard describes real strength, and whether the musician Moby has Gregor's CDs. Finally, they discuss Herman Melville's short story, "Bartleby, the Scrivener," and consider if participation in the market is something we should even aim for. How should we think about and value people who can't, don't, or just don't want to participate in "economically productive" behaviour -- and what about those who would rather live by themselves in the mountains?

Want to chime in? Email us at: subjectsinprocesspodcast@gmail.com

Show Notes:

• Lessons from Denmark about Inequality and Social Mobility: https://www.iza.org/publications/dp/14185/lessons-from-denmark-about-inequality-and-social-mobility
• Capital in the Twenty-First Century by Thomas Pikkety: https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674979857 (also a documentary on Netflix)
• Unpoverty: Rich Lessons from the Working Poor by Mark Lutz: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8888404-unpoverty
• Vox Conversations Podcast, Episode 123: "Is modern society making us depressed?" https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/is-modern-society-making-us-depressed/id1081584611?i=1000408984756
• Shop Class as Soulcraft by Matthew B. Crawford: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/301618/shop-class-as-soulcraft-by-matthew-b-crawford/
• Barnyard: The Original Party Animals: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnyard_(film)
• Heavyweight Episode 02: "Gregor" https://gimletmedia.com/shows/heavyweight/brholm
• "Bartleby, the Scrivener" by Herman Melville: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/11231
• Playing God by Andy Crouch: https://www.ivpress.com/playing-god

And... looking ahead to next week's episode, we highly recommend checking out Derek DelGaudio's magnificent philosophical magic show, In & Of Itself: https://store.cineplex.com/Product/derek-delgaudios-in-of-itself

Music:

Theme Music: "What u Thinkin? (Instrumental)" by Wataboi on Pixabay

Intermission Music: "Lazy Morning" by Tim Moor on Pixabay

Jonathan and Jeff continue looking at some of the ground-level issues that relate to the experience of capitalism: this week they look at "barriers to entry". Barriers to entry is a term that economists use to talk about obstacles that new firms can encounter when they attempt to enter the market. The conversation careens between discussions of patents to economies of scale to the benefits of competition to the Housing First initiative to Medicine Hat and Rudyard Kipling to copyright to beer brewing laws to a great Parks and Rec episode -- not necessarily in that order -- and eventually they even explore the questions of what constitutes "bad" barriers to entry and what might "good" ones include? 

Want to chime in? Email us at: subjectsinprocesspodcast@gmail.com

Show Notes:

Parks and Recreation, "Bailout" (2013): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2649404/

Music:

Theme Music: "What u Thinkin? (Instrumental)" by Wataboi on Pixabay

Intermission Music: "Uncut Gems" by Mezhdunami on Pixabay on Pixabay

Jeff and Jonathan discuss Marx's idea of alienation, and try to better understand it by sidestepping theory to talk more about Dairy Queen. They explore questions like: What kind of work is meaningful? What deprives us of pride in our work? Does modern work interfere with the best parts of being human?  Is management theory itself evidence alienation or does it aim to alleviate it? Are metrics part of the problem or a cure? Are we more mind or body, and what role does our "creatureliness" play in shaping meaning in our lives? 

Want to chime in? Email us at: subjectsinprocesspodcast@gmail.com 

Show Notes: 

"The end of life hacking" (Laura Miller): https://slate.com/culture/2019/06/life-hacking-productivity-tech-silicon-valley-hacking-life-book-review.html 

"Goals Gone Wild" (Ordóñez et al.): https://www.hbs.edu/ris/Publication%20Files/09-083.pdf 

"Building a practically useful theory of goal setting and task motivation: A 35-year odyssey" (Locke & Latham): https://www.researchgate.net/publication/11152729_Building_a_practically_useful_theory_of_goal_setting_and_task_motivation_-_A_35-year_odyssey 

Music: 

Theme Music: "What u Thinkin? (Instrumental)" by Wataboi on Pixabay 

Intermission Music: "Future Ambient" by BeachVibes-Music on Pixabay

Jeff and Jonathan continue their long-winded/long-winding discussion on capitalism. They explore a number of questions, including: How do we get from where we are to what's next? Do we have to address all the ills of the past or can we start from where we are at? They touch on Adam Smith, Milton Friedman, the literal definition of capitalism, exploitation and the rules of capitalism, externalities, the Rocky Mountains, the ubiquity of lies, Will Smith, Uber supply and demand, and more. 

Show Notes:  

Milton Friedman, "The Social Responsibility of Business is to Increase Profits": https://www.nytimes.com/1970/09/13/archives/a-friedman-doctrine-the-social-responsibility-of-business-is-to.html

Music: 

Theme Music: "What u Thinkin? (Instrumental)" by Wataboi on Pixabay 

Intermission Music: "Lazy Morning" by Tim Moor on Pixabay

We discuss Scott Alexander's 2018 post comparing "mistake theorists" and "conflict theorists" in order to try to understand what contributes to polarization (like those surrounding the question of capitalism). Is this typology useful? Maybe we need to add an axis? What about Shane Claiborne? The conversation proceeds to cover William Blake, Walter Wink, some more Adam Smith, Noam Chomsky, and more. The episode culminates with a sweet 2x2 matrix that takes Scott Alexander's binary and propels it into a 3rd dimension!!

 

Show Notes: 

"Mistake vs Conflict" blog post on Slate Star Codex: https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/01/24/conflict-vs-mistake/

Nathan Robinson podcast on Vox: https://www.vox.com/podcasts/2020/1/7/21055676/nathan-robinson-ezra-klein-socialism-bernie-sanders

Syndicate.Network symposium about Eugene McCarraher's "The Enchantments of Mammon": https://syndicate.network/symposia/theology/the-enchantments-of-mammon/

"Hayek vs Keynes" Rap Battle: https://youtu.be/d0nERTFo-Sk 

Music: 

Theme Music: "What u Thinkin? (Instrumental)" by Wataboi on Pixabay 

Intermission Music: "Uncut Gems" by Mezhdunami on Pixabay and "Journey" by Tim Moor on Pixabay

Continuing our conversation on capitalism, Jonathan kicks off this episode with a discussion of one of the fathers of capitalism, Adam Smith. Both Jon and Jeff reveal their Hegelian leanings. From there, we talk about some of the differences between Smith and Marx. Needle factories also come up much more often than one might typically expect in a podcast (at least these days). We discuss history and the value of widening our "temporal bandwidth" (to borrow Alan Jacobs's / Thomas Pynchon's term). We then start charting some possible directions our discussion can go from here, including an interesting blog post (see link below) all about different ways of approaching complex systems and how this might connect to contemporary politics. 

(A quick note: In this episode, we refer to Scott Alexander's idea of "mistake theorist" as "problem theorist.")

Want to chime in? (It sure beats yelling at a wall). Email us at: subjectsinprocesspodcast@gmail.com

Show Notes: 

The Toaster Project: http://www.thetoasterproject.org/

"Conflict vs. Mistake" by Scott Alexander: https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/01/24/conflict-vs-mistake/

Music:

Theme Music: "What u Thinkin? (Instrumental)" by Wataboi on Pixabay

Intermission Music: "Lazy Morning" by Tim Moor on Pixabay

In this episode, Jonathan and Jeff continue their rambling and insufficiently informed discussion of capitalism by talking about language — and also two Jacqueses (Derrida and Lacan), Benoit Mandelbrot, the bullsh*t asymmetry principle, quantum mechanics, Zeno’s paradox, and that’s just in the first fifteen minutes! 

Want to chime in? Email us at: subjectsinprocesspodcast@gmail.com

Show Notes: 

"Happiness" (https://youtu.be/e9dZQelULDk)

Music:

Theme Music: "What u Thinkin? (Instrumental)" by Wataboi on Pixabay

Intermission Music: "Lazy Morning" by Tim Moor on Pixabay