How has colour changed the world? A vibrant new podcast from the National Gallery, Stories in Colour launches with our first two episodes on Wednesday 28 May 2025.

The Times ★★★★ ‘There’s lots to enjoy here.’ 

In each episode, we uncover the hidden mysteries woven into colour from antiquity to the present day. 

Along the way, you'll hear from curators, scientists, historians, artists, and more experts, looking at humanity’s efforts to make colour and make meaning with it. 

And amongst these stories, you will see - and hear - the National Gallery’s paintings in a whole new spectrum of light.

Meet an enigmatic pigment discovered entirely by accident at the start of the 18th century. Its story involves a rogue inventor with an unlikely connection to Doctor Frankenstein, a characterful trio of Johanns, and a renowned Botticelli forgery. 

This pigment came to be known as Prussian blue or Berlin blue. Before its discovery, a range of blue pigments existed but each had a significant flaw: natural ultramarine was prohibitively expensive, smalt discoloured, azurite turned green and indigo faded. 

Join colour specialist Evie Hatch and National Gallery host Beks Leary for a conversation about the pigment most famously seen in the blue revolution of Japanese woodblock printing, which inspired the Impressionists, as well as in earlier Rococo painting. 

Evie Hatch is an art historian specialising in the history and characteristics of artist pigments. She is the writer and presenter of Jackson's Art Pigment Stories series. 

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Watch the full episode on YouTube: youtu.be/WK1GSvP6VYs

You can email us with any questions via podcast@nationalgallery.org.uk

Find out more about the podcast on our website: www.nationalgallery.org.uk/podcast

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Paintings mentioned: 

Paolo Veronese’s Four Allegories of Love series, about 1575: https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/search-the-collection?q=Four+Allegories+of+Love&tpf=&tpt=&acf=&act=  

Probably by Jean-Baptiste Perronneau, A Girl with a Kitten, 1743. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/probably-by-jean-baptiste-perronneau-a-girl-with-a-kitten  

Katsushika Hokusai, Under the Wave off Kanagawa (Kanagawa oki nami ura), also known as The Great Wave, from the series Thirty-six Views of Mount Fuji (Fugaku sanjūrokkei), about 1830-32. The Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/45434  

Claude Monet, Impression, Soleil Levant, 1872. Musée Marmottan Monet, Paris https://www.marmottan.fr/en/notice/4014/  

Claude Monet, Bathers at La Grenouillère, 1869. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/claude-monet-bathers-at-la-grenouillere  

Umberto Giunti, Forgery in the manner of Sandro Botticelli, Virgin and Child, about 1920-29. The Courtauld, London (Samuel Courtauld Trust) Photo © The Courtauld/Bridgeman Images https://gallerycollections.courtauld.ac.uk/object-p-1947-lf-40  

Further reading: 

Rebecca Solnit, A Field Guide to Getting Lost, 2005 

Deutsche Akademie der Wissenschaften zu Berlin, Miscellanea berolinensia ad incrementum scientiarum, 1710 

For more information on Paolo Veronese’s use of the pigment smalt in the ‘Four Allegories of Love’ series, see the National Gallery’s Technical Bulletin Volume 17, 1996: http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/technical-bulletin/penny_roy_spring1996  

Jackson’s article on Prussian Blue ‘The History of Prussian Blue (and why you won’t find it in most acrylic ranges)’ by Evie Hatch, 2022: https://www.jacksonsart.com/blog/2022/10/07/the-history-of-prussian-blue/  

Watch videos about the science of colour, including ultramarine blue, on the National Gallery YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvb2y26xK6Y4V3T1xHphum23El4b93YzC 

Additional information: 

*Note – Prussia was officially dissolved by the Allied Control Council of occupied Germany on 25 February 1947 

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Episode credits: 

Guest: Evie Hatch 

Host and executive producer: Beks Leary 

Producer: Harry Rosehill 

Researcher: Hannah Rogers 

Technicians: Ian Warren, Jon Sheldon, Ash Baker, Steven Pasquale, Tom Gulliver and Timothy Carpenter 

Editors: Jeanne Kenyon and Amber Akaunu 

Theme music: Theo Elwell 

Welcome to Stories in Colour! We're starting at the very beginning to ask an age-old question: are the colours you see, the same as the colours I see?

Join Professor Anya Hurlbert from Newcastle University and National Gallery host Beks Leary as they ask whether colour is real and how exactly we see it, stopping off to look at paintings from the National Gallery along the way. We go back to the viral dress that divided the internet in 2015 – was it blue and black, or was it white and gold? This was the moment so many of us discovered that colour is our own – in Anya’s words – personal possession.

Anya is a Professor of Visual Neuroscience and Dean of Advancement at Newcastle University. Her research focuses on human visual perception: how and why we see what we see. As Scientist Trustee at the National Gallery from 2010-2018, she worked with us on our 2014 ‘Making Colour’ exhibition – bringing together art and science to explain how artists overcame the technical challenges involved in creating colour.

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Watch the full episode on YouTube: youtu.be/gYTWp_iLRh4

You can email us with any questions via podcast@nationalgallery.org.uk

Find out more about the podcast on our website: www.nationalgallery.org.uk/podcast

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Paintings mentioned:

Joseph Mallord William Turner, The Fighting Temeraire, 1839. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/joseph-mallord-william-turner-the-fighting-temeraire

Pierre-Auguste Renoir, The Skiff (La Yole), 1875. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/pierre-auguste-renoir-the-skiff-la-yole

Claude Monet, Stacks of Wheat (End of Summer), 1890–91. The Art Institute of Chicago https://www.artic.edu/artworks/64818/stacks-of-wheat-end-of-summer

Claude Monet, Stacks of Wheat (Sunset, Snow Effect), 1890–91. The Art Institute of Chicago https://www.artic.edu/artworks/81545/stacks-of-wheat-sunset-snow-effect

Claude Monet, Stacks of Wheat (End of Day, Autumn), 1890–91. The Art Institute of Chicago https://www.artic.edu/artworks/14624/stacks-of-wheat-end-of-day-autumn

Claude Monet, Rouen Cathedral, West Façade, 1894. National Gallery of Art, Washington https://www.nga.gov/artworks/46524-rouen-cathedral-west-facade

Claude Monet, Rouen Cathedral, West Façade, Sunlight, 1894. National Gallery of Art, Washington https://www.nga.gov/artworks/46654-rouen-cathedral-west-facade-sunlight

Vincent van Gogh, Sunflowers, 1888. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/vincent-van-gogh-sunflowers

Hilaire-Germain-Edgar Degas, Combing the Hair ('La Coiffure'), about 1896. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/hilaire-germain-edgar-degas-combing-the-hair-la-coiffure

Paul Gauguin, Bowl of Fruit and Tankard before a Window, probably 1890. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/paul-gauguin-bowl-of-fruit-and-tankard-before-a-window

Further reading:

Various authors, Colour in Nature, 2024

Curators in Conversation: Making Colour, 2014 https://youtu.be/YJVBaCWj-1Y?si=1KpDGmJPQNiyiWqO

Find out more about Claude Monet’s series paintings: https://artsandculture.google.com/story/monet-s-rouen-painting-series-the-national-gallery-london/2gXhjhmKqfavLg?hl=en

Find out more about the blue and gold dress: https://www.ncl.ac.uk/press/articles/archive/2015/11/isthecolouryouseethesamecolourasisee/

To learn more about the science of colour visit our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvb2y26xK6Y4V3T1xHphum23El4b93YzC

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Episode credits:

Guest: Professor Anya Hurlbert

Host and executive producer: Beks Leary

Producer: Harry Rosehill

Researcher: Hannah Rogers

Technicians: Ian Warren, Tom Gulliver and Timothy Carpenter

Editors: Jeanne Kenyon and Paul Frankl

Theme music: Theo Elwell

We're on the search for the 'perfect red' with a pigment and dye that was so prized that it inspired international espionage and piracy, carried the death penalty if exported without a license, and built empires. But today you might find it in your strawberry yoghurt.

This is the story of how bugs turned the world red with historian and writer Amy Butler Greenfield and National Gallery host Beks Leary.

Amy is the granddaughter and great-granddaughter of dyers, and her award-winning history of cochineal, 'A Perfect Red', has been published in eight languages. A popular speaker on radio and television programs, Amy was born in Philadelphia, studied history at Oxford, and now lives with her family in Oxfordshire.

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Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Z2jEf3QH_ho

You can email us with any questions via podcast@nationalgallery.org.uk

Find out more about the podcast on our website: www.nationalgallery.org.uk/podcast

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Paintings mentioned:

Workshop of Albrecht Dürer with Hans Baldung Grien, ‘The Virgin and Child ('The Madonna with the Iris')’, about 1500-10. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/workshop-of-albrecht-durer-with-hans-baldung-grien-the-virgin-and-child-the-madonna-with-the-iris

Titian, ‘The Holy Family with a Shepherd’, about 1510. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/titian-the-holy-family-with-a-shepherd

Titian, 'Diana and Callisto’, 1556-9. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/titian-diana-and-callisto

Further reading:

Amy Butler Greenfield, ‘A Perfect Red: Empire, Espionage, and the Quest for the Color of Desire’, 2005

For more information on ‘The Virgin and Child ('The Madonna with the Iris')’ by Workshop of Albrecht Dürer with Hans Baldung Grien, please see the following volumes of the National Gallery’s Technical Bulletin:

https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/research/research-resources/technical-bulletin/technical-bulletin-volume-21

https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/research/research-resources/technical-bulletin/the-technology-of-red-lake-pigment-manufacture-study-of-the-dyestuff-substrate

For more information on ‘Titian’s painting techniques before 1540’ see the National Gallery’s Technical Bulletin Volume 34, 2013: http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/technical-bulletin/vol-34-essay-1-2013

Find out more about the work of artist Elena Osterwalder: https://elenaosterwalder-atelier.com/

Find out more about artist Bosco Sodi: https://www.kasmingallery.com/artists/96-bosco-sodi/

Find out more about red lake pigments in paintings from the National Gallery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B8u2f799KM&list=PLvb2y26xK6Y4V3T1xHphum23El4b93YzC&index=10

To learn more about the science of colour visit our National Gallery YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvb2y26xK6Y4V3T1xHphum23El4b93YzC

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Episode credits:

Guest: Amy Butler Greenfield

Host and executive producer: Beks Leary

Producer: Harry Rosehill

Researcher: Hannah Rogers

Technicians: Ian Warren, Tom Gulliver and Timothy Carpenter

Editors: Jeanne Kenyon, Alessandro Sorenti and Paul Frankl

Theme music: Theo Elwell

We're asking how we feel about colour – or more accurately how colours make us feel – and whether that's the same for all of us.

Join colour specialist Zeynep Sagir and National Gallery host Beks Leary to get emotional about colour. Along the way, we talk about Pablo Picasso’s ‘Blue Period’ and Derek Jarman’s final film ‘Blue’, the calming green of John Constable’s ‘The Cornfield’, and Mark Rothko’s colour field abstractions. And we’ll see just how cultural our perception of colour really is.

Zeynep is an artist, colour consultant, and founder of The Colour Club. She holds a Master’s degree from Central Saint Martins and spent two years researching colour psychology. Since graduating, she has gone on to become a certified colour consultant and colour therapist. Through The Colour Club, Zeynep runs workshops, hosts events, and offers consultancy, as well as publishing articles and interviews.

Find out more about The Colour Club on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thecolourclub/

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Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/CN0KgUJtjJA

You can email us with any questions via podcast@nationalgallery.org.uk

Find out more about the podcast on our website: www.nationalgallery.org.uk/podcast

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To take our short survey about the podcast please visit: https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/podcast

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Paintings mentioned:

John Constable, ‘The Cornfield’, 1826. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/john-constable-the-cornfield

Derek Jarman, ‘Blue’, 1993. Tate https://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/jarman-blue-t14555

Vincent van Gogh, ‘Van Gogh’s Chair’, 1888. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/vincent-van-gogh-van-gogh-s-chair

Vincent van Gogh, ‘Gauguin's Chair’, 1888. Van Gogh Museum, Amsterdam https://www.vangoghmuseum.nl/en/collection/s0048V1962

Further reading:

Find out more about The Colour Club here: https://www.thecolourclub.co.uk/

Josef Albers, Interaction of Color, 1963

To find out more about research conducted during the 2004 Olympic Games in Athens on how ‘Red enhances human performance in contests’ see: https://www.nature.com/articles/435293a

Wassily Kandinsky, Concerning the Spiritual in Art, [1911]

Read the full letter from Vincent van Gogh to his brother Theo, dated on or about Wednesday, 28 October 1885: https://vangoghletters.org/vg/letters/let537/letter.html

Discover more about Vincent van Gogh’s letters: https://www.vangoghmuseum.nl/en/art-and-stories/stories/all-stories/van-goghs-letters

Find out more about colour field painting and abstract expressionist artists, such as Mark Rothko, here: https://www.tate.org.uk/art/art-terms/colour-field-painting

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Episode Credits

Guest: Zeynep Sagir

Host and executive producer: Beks Leary

Producer: Harry Rosehill

Researcher: Hannah Rogers

Technicians: Ian Warren and Timothy Carpenter

Editor: Jeanne Kenyon and Paul Frankl

Theme music: Theo Elwell

Why does the colour green remind you of poison and radioactivity? We're telling the story of two toxic green pigments to find out. Their stories interact with artists like Berthe Morisot, Dante Gabriel Rossetti and William Morris, as well as the less likely figure of Napoleon Bonaparte. And we go for a very good nosy around Victorian libraries. 

Join cultural historian Kassia St Clair and National Gallery host Beks Leary to ask just how deadly these historic pigments really are! 

Kassia is the author of books including 'The Secret Lives of Colour', 'The Golden Thread' and 'Liberty: Design. Pattern. Colour'. She specialises in telling stories about the overlooked and every day. 

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Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/9PIn-7FesV8

You can email us with any questions via podcast@nationalgallery.org.uk

Find out more about the podcast on our website: www.nationalgallery.org.uk/podcast

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To take our short survey about the podcast please visit: https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/podcast 

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Paintings mentioned:

Camille Pissarro, ‘The Côte des Bœufs at L'Hermitage’, 1877. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/camille-pissarro-the-cote-des-boeufs-at-l-hermitage  

Edouard Manet, ‘Music in the Tuileries Gardens’, 1862. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/edouard-manet-music-in-the-tuileries-gardens  

Dante Gabriel Rossetti, ‘Veronica Veronese’, 1872. The Delaware Art Museum © Delaware Art Museum / Samuel and Mary R. Bancroft Memorial / Bridgeman Images https://emuseum.delart.org/objects/321/veronica-veronese  

Berthe Morisot, ‘Summer’s Day’, about 1879. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/berthe-morisot-summer-s-day  

Further reading:

Kassia St Clair, The Secret Lives of Colour, 2016 

David Bomford, Jo kirby, John Leighton and Ashok Roy, Art in the Making: Impressionism, 1990 

William Morris and Norman Kelvin, The Collected Letters of William Morris, 1984 

To see ‘The Arsenic Waltz’ wood engraving, dated to 8 February 1862, from Punch or the London Charivari, visit the Wellcome Collection’s online catalogue: https://wellcomecollection.org/works/awbr7whm/images?id=ascfupfg     

Lucinda Hawksley, Bitten by Witch Fever: Wallpaper & Arsenic in the Victorian Home, 2016 

Robert Clark Kedzie, Shadows from the walls of death: facts and inferences prefacing a book of specimens of arsenical wall papers, 1874 https://archive.org/details/0234555.nlm.nih.gov/page/n191/mode/2up 

Find out more about the ‘Poison Book Project’ – an interdisciplinary research initiative at Winterthur Museum, Garden & Library and the University of Delaware: https://sites.udel.edu/poisonbookproject/ 

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Episode Credits:

Guest: Kassia St Clair 

Host and executive producer: Beks Leary 

Producer: Harry Rosehill 

Researcher: Hannah Rogers 

Technicians: Ian Warren and Timothy Carpenter 

Editor: Jeanne Kenyon and Paul Frankl 

Theme music: Theo Elwell 

Where did all the colour go? And how might Western culture have feared it, or deemed it superficial, in art and philosophy? We celebrate the 25th anniversary of seminal book ‘Chromophobia’ with its author David Batchelor, who reflects on these ideas a quarter of a century on.

David speaks to National Gallery host Beks Leary about ideas of colour from philosopher Plato and artist Paul Cezanne, to the film ‘The Wizard of Oz’, photojournalist Don McCullin and pop artist Andy Warhol. They also ask the pressing question: ‘is beige a passive aggressive colour?’

David Batchelor is an artist and writer based in London, who, for thirty years, has been concerned with our experience of colour within the modern urban environment, and with historical conceptions of colour within Western culture. His work comprises sculpture, installation, drawing, painting, photography and animation.

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Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/bOrd81eklxM

You can email us with any questions via podcast@nationalgallery.org.uk

Find out more about the podcast on our website: www.nationalgallery.org.uk/podcast

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To take our short survey about the podcast please visit: https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/podcast

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Artworks mentioned:

Paul Cezanne, ‘Hillside in Provence’, about 1890-2. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/paul-cezanne-hillside-in-provence

Jean-Auguste-Dominique Ingres, ‘Madame Moitessier’, 1856. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/jean-auguste-dominique-ingres-madame-moitessier

Pierre-Auguste Renoir, ‘The Skiff (La Yole)’, 1875. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/pierre-auguste-renoir-the-skiff-la-yole

Claude Monet, ‘The Gare St-Lazare', 1877. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/claude-monet-the-gare-st-lazare

Sir Don McCullin CBE, ‘Shell-shocked US Marine, The Battle of Hue’, 1968, printed 2013. ARTIST ROOMS Tate and National Galleries of Scotland https://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/mccullin-shell-shocked-us-marine-the-battle-of-hue-ar01201 / https://www.nationalgalleries.org/art-and-artists/130204

English or French (?), ‘The Wilton Diptych’, about 1395-9. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/english-or-french-the-wilton-diptych

Further reading:

David Batchelor, Chromophobia [Book], 2000

Aristotle, Poetics, composed around 4th century BCE

Johann Joachim Winckelmann, History of Ancient Art (Geschichte der Kunst des Alterthums) [Book], 1764

Herman Melville, Moby Dick: or, The Whale [Book], 1851

Vidor, King, et al., The Wizard of Oz [Film], 1939

Salman Rushdie, The Wizard of Oz (BFI Film Classics) [Book], 1992

Charles Blanc, Grammaire des arts du dessin: architecture, sculpture, peinture [Book], 1867

Roland Barthes, ‘Camera Lucida: Reflections on Photography’ [Book], 1980

Find out more about photojournalist Don McCullin: https://donmccullin.com/

Find out more about Andy Warhol’s prints here: https://warholfoundation.org/warhol/catalogue-raisonne/catalogues-raisonnes-print/ https://www.moma.org/collection/works/portfolios/61240

Additional note:

Jean-Auguste-Dominique Ingres’s ‘Madame Moitessier’ features a Japanese Imari vase.

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Episode Credits:

Guest: David Batchelor

Host and executive producer: Beks Leary

Producer: Harry Rosehill

Researcher: Hannah Rogers

Technicians: Ian Warren and Tom Gulliver

Editor: Jeanne Kenyon

Theme music: Theo Elwell

Why do we see purple as the colour of royalty? It all starts on the Mediterranean coast with some unassuming, and eventually very unfortunate, seasnails.

Travel back to ancient times with colour specialist Victoria Finlay and National Gallery host Beks Leary to trace the story of Tyrian purple through time.

Victoria has written several books about colour – including 'Colour, Travels through the Paintbox' and 'The Brilliant History of Color in Art' – which involved travelling across the globe to the very places that ancient pigments and dyes came from. Her most recent book is about the hidden histories of fabric.

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Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/kcPMFsafav8

You can email us with any questions via podcast@nationalgallery.org.uk

Find out more about the podcast on our website: www.nationalgallery.org.uk/podcast

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To take our short survey about the podcast please visit: https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/podcast

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Paintings mentioned:

Peter Paul Rubens, ‘La Découverte de la Pourpre un phenicien trouve grace a son chien un coquillage produisant la teintre rouge’, about 1636. Musée Bonnat, Bayonne, France © Musée Bonnat, Bayonne, France / Photo Josse/Scala, Florence https://webmuseo.com/ws/musee-bonnat-helleu/app/collection/record/1923

Raphael, ‘The Dream of a Knight’, about 1504. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/raphael-the-dream-of-a-knight

Lorenzo Costa, 'Portrait (supposed to be of Battista Fiera)', 1490-5. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/lorenzo-costa-portrait-supposed-to-be-of-battista-fiera

Master of the Bruges Passion Scenes, 'Christ presented to the People', about 1510. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/master-of-the-bruges-passion-scenes-christ-presented-to-the-people

Further reading:

Victoria Finlay, Color: A Natural History of the Palette, 2002

Victoria Finlay, Colour: Travels through the Paintbox, 2002

Victoria Finlay, The Brilliant History of Color in Art, 2014

Victoria Finlay, Fabric: The Hidden History of the Material World, 2021

Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, composed around 2nd century AD

Find out more about the Tito Bustillo Cave here: https://www.centrotitobustillo.com/en/cueva-tito-bustillo

Julius Pollox, Onomasticon, composed around 2nd century AD

Pliny the Elder, Historia Naturalis [Natural History], published around 77 AD

Find out more about the Church of San Vitale in Ravenna, Italy: https://www.turismo.ra.it/en/culture-and-history/religious-buildings/basilica-san-vitale/

Silius Italicus, Punica, composed around the late 1st century AD – see Book XV for the passage on Scipio’s choice

Find out more about technical analysis of Raphael’s ‘The Dream of a Knight’ in the National Gallery’s Technical Bulletin: https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/technical-bulletin/roy_spring_plazzotta2004

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Episode Credits:

Guest: Victoria Finlay

Host and executive producer: Beks Leary

Producer: Harry Rosehill

Researcher: Hannah Rogers

Technicians: Ian Warren and Tom Gulliver

Editor: Jeanne Kenyon

Theme music: Theo Elwell

What exactly is a rainbow and how is it formed? Why does it have seven colours? And what have rainbows symbolised in mythologies and art?

Join colour expert Dr Alexandra Loske, National Gallery Principal Scientist Joseph Padfield and National Gallery host Beks Leary as they cover rainbows from Noah’s Ark to Olafur Eliasson, and Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon to Georges Seurat’s ‘The Rainbow’ study.

Alexandra is a colour expert, art historian and museum curator. Her exhibition 'Colour: A Chromatic Promenade through the Royal Pavilion' is on display at The Royal Pavilion in Brighton until October 2025. She is also author of 'The Artist's Palette' and 'Colour: A Visual History'.

Joseph is a Principal Scientist at the National Gallery. He brings a wealth of expertise across multiple domains, including data management, digital infrastructure, conservation documentation, digital imaging, web development, preventive conservation, museum lighting, colour science, and the technical examination of paintings.

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Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/XjaFKMexByg

You can email us with any questions via podcast@nationalgallery.org.uk

Find out more about the podcast on our website: www.nationalgallery.org.uk/podcast

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To take our short survey about the podcast please visit: https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/podcast

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Paintings mentioned:

Angelica Kauffman RA, ‘Colouring’, 1778-80. Royal Academy of Arts, London © Photo: Royal Academy of Arts, London. Photographer: John Hammond https://www.royalacademy.org.uk/art-artists/work-of-art/colour

Jan Van Eyck, ‘The Annunciation’, about 1434/1436. National Gallery of Art, Washington https://www.nga.gov/artworks/46-annunciation

Bartolomé Bermejo, ‘Saint Michael triumphant over the Devil with the Donor Antoni Joan’, 1468. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/bartolome-bermejo-saint-michael-triumphs-over-the-devil

John Constable, ‘Salisbury Cathedral from the Meadows’, exhibited 1831. Tate, Purchased by Tate with assistance from the National Lottery through the Heritage Lottery Fund, The Manton Foundation, Art Fund (with a contribution from the Wolfson Foundation) and Tate Members in partnership with Amgueddfa Cymru-National Museum Wales, Colchester and Ipswich Museums Service, National Galleries of Scotland, and The Salisbury Museum 2013. © Photo: Tate https://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/constable-salisbury-cathedral-from-the-meadows-t13896

John Everett Millais, ‘The Blind Girl’, 1856. Birmingham Museums Trust © Photo by Birmingham Museums Trust https://dams.birminghammuseums.org.uk/assetbank-birminghammuseums/action/viewAsset?id=3114&index=22&total=215&view=viewSearchItem

Georges Seurat, ‘The Rainbow: Study for 'Bathers at Asnières'’, 1883. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/georges-seurat-the-rainbow-study-for-bathers-at-asnieres

Further reading:

Alexandra Loske, The Artist's Palette: The Palettes Behind the Paintings of 50 Great Artists, 2024

Alexandra Loske, Colour: A Visual History, 2019

Find out more about the exhibition ‘Colour: A Chromatic Promenade through the Royal Pavilion’ at The Royal Pavilion, Brighton: https://brightonmuseums.org.uk/event/colour/

Raymond L. Lee and Alistair B. Fraser, The Rainbow Bridge: Rainbows in Art, Myth and Science, 2001

Isaac Newton, Opticks: or, A Treatise of the Reflexions, Refractions, Inflexions and Colours of Light, 1704

Pink Floyd ‘Dark Side of the Moon’ album cover: http://www.hipgnosiscovers.com/pinkfloyd/darksideofthemoon.html

Cesare Ripa, Iconologia, 1593

Find out more about Olafur Eliasson’s ‘Your Rainbow Panorama’ (2011) at ARoS Aarhus Art Museum, in Denmark: https://www.aros.dk/en/art/the-collection/olafur-eliasson-your-rainbow-panorama-2011/

Find out more about the work of Andy Goldsworthy: https://andygoldsworthystudio.com/

Find out more about Hiroshi Sugimoto’s ‘Opticks’: https://www.sugimotohiroshi.com/polarized-color-1

Find out more about artist and writer David Batchelor: https://www.davidbatchelor.co.uk/works/installations/

Find out more about solar geometry in Constable’s ‘Salisbury Cathedral from the Meadows’: https://www.tate.org.uk/research/in-focus/salisbury-cathedral-constable/reassessing-the-rainbow

Thomas Forster, Researches about Atmospheric Phaenomena, [1815]

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End credits:

Guests: Dr Alexandra Loske and Joseph Padfield

Host and executive producer: Beks Leary

Producer: Harry Rosehill

Researcher: Hannah Rogers

Technicians: Ian Warren and Tom Gulliver

Editor: Jeanne Kenyon and Paul Frankl

Theme music: Theo Elwell

Welcome to a new miniseries of ‘Stories in Colour’. The National Gallery’s vibrant podcast returns to tell the story of a rare, sparkling and glistening colour – or should we say material? 

It's been called the tears of the gods, the sweat of the sun, a barbaric relic and a universal language. Join us as we trace the use of gold across the ages! From the tombs of Ancient Egypt to Renaissance altarpieces, all the way to a currently missing golden toilet. 

The first episode in our three-part miniseries releases on Wednesday 19 November 2025. Episodes will release weekly, finishing on 3 December 2025.

Welcome back to Stories in Colour! And welcome to the first episode of our new miniseries in which we'll be telling the story of a rare, sparkling and glistening colour – or should we say material?

Join Nelly von Aderkas from the National Gallery’s Scientific department and host Beks as they dive into the ancient origins of gold! From colliding supernovas to the tomb of Tutankhamun and the man with the Midas touch, we will be exploring the materiality of gold, where this precious metal comes from and its symbolism in art and literature.

Nelly is a Specialist Scientist and Organic Analyst at the National Gallery with a background in paintings conservation.

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Watch the full episode on our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z2Xr4O8sqE

You can email us with any questions via podcast@nationalgallery.org.uk

Find out more about the podcast on our website: https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/podcast

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Paintings mentioned:

Jacopo di Cione, 'The Crucifixion', about 1369-70. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/jacopo-di-cione-the-crucifixion

Nicolas Poussin, 'Midas Washing at the Source of the Pactolus', ca. 1627. The Metropolitan Museum of Art https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/437328

Jean-François de Troy, 'The Capture of the Golden Fleece', 1742-3. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/jean-francois-de-troy-the-capture-of-the-golden-fleece

Nicolas Poussin, 'The Adoration of the Golden Calf', 1633-4. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/nicolas-poussin-the-adoration-of-the-golden-calf

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Further reading:

Discover more on gold in the National Gallery’s collection: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diJUaHMnazU https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvb2y26xK6Y6T7IfNAc1jMa_zMoX231MX

Find out more about gold in Jacopo di Cione’s 'The Crucifixion': https://artsandculture.google.com/story/4gUB2kjMQI3paA

Find out more about Tutankhamun's Golden Burial Mask: https://gem.eg/en/collection/artefacts/the-golden-burial-mask-of-tutankhamun

Find out more about Tutankhamun's coffins: https://egypt-museum.com/innermost-coffin-of-tutankhamun/

Take a look at Egyptian coffins in the collection of the Fitzwilliam Museum: https://egyptiancoffins.org/coffin-catalogue

Cennino Cennini, 'Il libro dell'arte', written late 14th century

Kassia St Clair, 'The Secret Lives of Colour', 2016

J.R.R. Tolkein, 'The Hobbit', 1937

Apollonius Rhodius, 'Argonautica', written around 3rd century BC

[Author unknown], 'Beowulf', [date unknown]

Ovid, 'Metamorphoses', composed around 8th century AD

Stephen Fry, 'Troy: The Greek Myths Reimagined', 2021

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Episode credits:

Guest: Nelly von Aderkas

Host and executive producer: Beks Leary

Producer: Harry Rosehill

Researcher: Hannah Rogers

Technicians: Ian Warren and Timothy Carpenter

Video Producer: Jeanne Kenyon

Video Editor: Alessandro Sorenti

Theme music: Theo Elwell

When the artist Louise Nevelson immigrated to America as a child, she was told that ‘the streets... would be paved in gold’. Obviously, they weren’t, but that hasn’t stopped modern artists turning pretty much everything else golden. Even a toilet.

Join National Gallery Courses and Events Programmer Caroline Miller, Associate Curator of Contemporary and Modern Priyesh Mistry and host Beks in the final episode of our sparkling miniseries, where we look to uses of gold in modern and contemporary art. From glistening gold in Gustav Klimt’s ‘The Kiss’ to an artwork so valuable it has hardly ever been displayed. We explore what gold has meant for contemporary artists and how they have tested the limits of this sparkling colour and material.

Caroline is the Courses and Events Programmer at the Gallery. She develops online and in-person courses that expand access and engagement for the National Gallery’s audiences worldwide.

Priyesh is Associate Curator, Contemporary and Modern at the National Gallery where he works towards an ambitious programme to integrate contemporary art within the context of the museum and its historic collections.

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Watch the full episode on our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3I4VzE_QPI

You can email us with any questions via podcast@nationalgallery.org.uk

Find out more about the podcast on our website: www.nationalgallery.org.uk/podcast

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Paintings mentioned:

Joseph Beuys, ‘How to Explain Pictures to a Dead Hare’, 1965. Galerie Schmela, Düsseldorf [Performance art] https://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au/collection/works/434.1997.9/

Anselm Kiefer, 'Mein Rhine', 2024. Thaddaeus Ropac, Salzburg Villa Kast [Exhibition] https://ropac.net/online-exhibitions/171-anselm-kiefer-mein-rhein/

Jan van Eyck, ‘The Arnolfini Portrait’, 1434. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/jan-van-eyck-the-arnolfini-portrait

Anselm Kiefer, 'Field of the Cloth of Gold', 2021. Gagosian, Le Bourget [Exhibition] https://gagosian.com/exhibitions/2021/anselm-kiefer-field-of-the-cloth-of-gold/

Anselm Kiefer, ‘Aus Herzen und Hirnen sprießen die Halme der Nacht (From Hearts and Brains the Stalks of Night Are Sprouting)’, 2019-2020. Emulsion, oil, acrylic, shellac, straw, gold leaf, wood, and metal on canvas, 185 ⅛ x 330 ¾ inches (470 x 840 cm) https://gagosian.com/exhibitions/2021/anselm-kiefer-field-of-the-cloth-of-gold/

Gustav Klimt, 'Pallas Athene', 1898. Wein Museum, Vienna https://sammlung.wienmuseum.at/en/object/102991-pallas-athene/

Gustav Klimt, 'The Kiss (Lovers)', 1908 (completed 1909). Belvedere Museum, Vienna https://sammlung.belvedere.at/objects/6678/der-kuss-liebespaar

Barkley L. Hendricks, ‘Lawdy Mama’, 1969. Studio Museum in Harlem https://www.studiomuseum.org/artworks/lawdy-mama-2

Barkley L. Hendricks, ‘Father, Son, and...’, 1969. Art Bridges https://artbridgesfoundation.org/artworks/hendricks-father-son-and

Louise Nevelson, ‘Royal Tide II’, 1961–1963. Whitney Museum of American Art, New York https://whitney.org/collection/works/428

Chris Burden, ‘Tower of Power’, 1985. Exhibition: “Chris Burden: Extreme Measures” at New Museum, New York, 2013-14 https://archive.newmuseum.org/exhibitions/1861

Maurizio Cattelan, ‘AMERICA’, 2016. Bowl: 18K Gold; Pipes and flushmeter: gold plated. 72,4 cm x 35,6 cm x 68,6 cm. Exhibition: ‘Maurizio Cattelan: “America”’ at Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum, New York, 2016-17 https://www.guggenheim.org/exhibition/maurizio-cattelan-america

[Episode artwork] Gustav Klimt, The Kiss (Lovers), 1908 (completed 1909). Belvedere Museum, Vienna https://sammlung.belvedere.at/objects/6678/der-kuss-liebespaar

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Further reading:

Discover more on gold in the National Gallery’s collection on our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diJUaHMnazU https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvb2y26xK6Y6T7IfNAc1jMa_zMoX231MX

Find out more about Angela Davis here: https://www.britannica.com/biography/Angela-Davis

Take a closer look at the artist Louise Nevelson and her assemblage art: https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portrait/mw72654/Louise-Nevelson

Find out more about Maurizio Cattelan’s ‘America’ (2016): https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjev7vn4qp0o https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1j8z6r8zl6o

Find out more about artist Marcel Duchamp: https://www.britannica.com/biography/Marcel-Duchamp

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Episode credits:

Guests: Caroline Miller and Priyesh Mistry

Host and executive producer: Beks Leary

Producer: Harry Rosehill

Researcher: Hannah Rogers

Technician: Ian Warren

Video editors: Jeanne Kenyon...

When did gold become a colour? In this episode we journey from the majestic mosaics of the Byzantine era to the brilliantly burnished panel paintings of the early Renaissance to answer this very question.

Join Laura Llewellyn, National Gallery Curator of Italian Paintings before 1500, art historian and educator Ben Street and National Gallery host Beks on this sparkling adventure. Together, they delve into the Gallery’s paintings to explore how artists were creating with gold and capturing this glittering metal in paint.

Laura Llewellyn is Curator of Italian Paintings Before 1500 here at the National Gallery. She was also the co-curator of our exhibition ‘Siena: The Rise of Painting, 1300-1350'.

Ben Street is an art historian and educator. He is the author of ‘How to Enjoy Art: A Guide for Everyone’ and the award-winning children’s book ‘How to be an Art Rebel’.

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Watch the full episode on our YouTube channel: https://youtu.be/gisKAcY-5XA

You can email us with any questions via podcast@nationalgallery.org.uk

Find out more about the podcast on our website: https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/podcast

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Paintings mentioned:

Masaccio, 'The Virgin and Child', 1426. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/masaccio-the-virgin-and-child

Jacopo di Cione, 'The Crucifixion', about 1369-70. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/jacopo-di-cione-the-crucifixion

Bridget Riley, 'Messengers', 2019. The National Gallery, London © 2019 Bridget Riley https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/bridget-riley-messengers

Fra Angelico, 'Fiesole San Domenico Altarpiece', about 1423-4. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/fra-angelico-christ-glorified-in-the-court-of-heaven

Andrea Mantegna, 'The Virgin and Child with the Magdalen and Saint John the Baptist', about 1490-1505. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/andrea-mantegna-the-virgin-and-child-with-saints

Giovanni Bellini, 'The Agony in the Garden', about 1458-60. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/giovanni-bellini-the-agony-in-the-garden

Sandro Botticelli, 'Birth of Venus', around 1485. The Uffizi Gallery, Firenze, Italy https://www.uffizi.it/en/artworks/birth-of-venus

Sandro Botticelli, 'Saint Francis of Assisi with Angels', about 1475-80. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/sandro-botticelli-saint-francis-of-assisi-with-angels

Titian, 'Bacchus and Ariadne', 1520-3. The National Gallery, London https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/titian-bacchus-and-ariadne

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Further reading:

Discover more on gold in the National Gallery’s collection on our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diJUaHMnazU https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvb2y26xK6Y6T7IfNAc1jMa_zMoX231MX

Take a closer look at the use of gold in Jacopo di Cione’s 'The Crucifixion': https://artsandculture.google.com/story/4gUB2kjMQI3paA

Find out more about the the National Gallery’s past exhibition ‘Siena: The Rise of Painting, 1300-1350' (2025): https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/exhibitions/past/siena-the-rise-of-painting

Find out more about the winter solstice: https://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/space-science/solstices-equinoxes

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Episode credits:

Guests: Laura Llewellyn and Ben Street

Host and executive producer: Beks Leary

Producer: Harry Rosehill

Researcher: Hannah Rogers

Technicians: Ian Warren and Tom Gulliver

Video editors: Amber Akaunu and Alessandro Sorenti

Theme music: Theo Elwell

Welcome back to a new series of 'Stories in Colour'. To kick off, we’re tackling one of the topics we received the most questions about − synaesthesia.

Join Beks and this week’s guests, composer Dr Deborah Pritchard and leading expert on synaesthesia Professor Jamie Ward, as they set out to answer questions such as: What is synaesthesia and what might yellow sound like?

We are also joined in the studio by violinist Greta Mutlu and cellist Richard Harwood. They help bring Deborah’s own personal experience of synaesthesia to life through music.

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Jamie is a Professor of Cognitive Neuroscience at the University of Sussex. He is one of the world's leading experts on synaesthesia and is the author of several books, including ‘The Frog Who Croaked Blue: Synesthesia and the Mixing of the Senses’.

Deborah is an award-winning British composer known for her work relating to synaesthesia. She has been performed worldwide by the London Symphony Orchestra, BBC Symphony Orchestra and more. She is Associate of The Faculty of Music, Oxford and the Royal Academy of Music and was Visiting Fellow at Keble College, Oxford from 2022-2023.

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Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tko6NE4po0Y

You can email us with any questions via podcast@nationalgallery.org.uk

Find out more about the podcast on our website: www.nationalgallery.org.uk/podcast

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Paintings mentioned:

Sassoferrato, ‘The Virgin in Prayer’, 1640-50 https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/sassoferrato-the-virgin-in-prayer

Claude Monet, ‘Water-Lilies’, after 1916 https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/claude-monet-water-lilies

Edvard Munch, ‘The Scream’, 1893. The National Museum, Oslo https://www.nasjonalmuseet.no/en/collection/object/NG.M.00939

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Further reading:

Jamie Ward, ‘The Frog who Croaked Blue: Synesthesia and the Mixing of the Senses’, 2008

Wassily Kandinsky, ‘Concerning the Spiritual in Art’, 1911

Find out more about Deborah Pritchard’s ‘Wall of Water’ and the English String Orchestra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l4yX6sZqVw

Find out more about Maggi Hambling’s ‘Walls of Water’ exhibition 2014-15: https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/exhibitions/past/maggi-hambling-walls-of-water

Find out more about composer Olivier Messiaen: https://www.britannica.com/biography/Olivier-Messiaen

Step into the 'National Gallery Imaginarium': https://imaginarium.nationalgallery.org.uk/

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Additional note: The 'National Gallery Imaginarium' digital experience features an introductory poem titled 'The Imaginarium' by poet and novelist Sir Ben Okri.

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Episode credits:

Guests: Dr Deborah Pritchard, Professor Jamie Ward

Musicians: Cellist Richard Harwood and Violinist Greta Mutlu

Host and executive producer: Beks Leary

Producer: Harry Rosehill

Researcher: Hannah Rogers

Technicians: Ian Warren and Tom Gulliver

Video Producers: Alessandro Sorenti and Amber Akaunu

Editor: Oli Mason

Theme music: Theo Elwell

What does colour sound like? Why was mauve the brat green of the Victorian era? And is pink really just for girls?

Welcome back to another series of 'Stories in Colour', the National Gallery's vibrant podcast. Join us on a journey that travels from mines in Afghanistan, to the East End of Victorian London. Hear from curators, scientists, historians and artists, for fresh perspectives and unexpected discoveries.

The first episode of series two is out now on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts: https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/podcast

Travel with us beyond the sea to look at ultramarine, a pigment that was once even more precious than gold.

In this episode, writer Victoria Finlay joins Beks for a discussion on how researching ultramarine took her to Afghanistan. She journeyed to the blue mines where you can find lapis lazuli, the semi-precious stone ultramarine comes from. Along the journey, we pause to look at some of the National Gallery’s paintings – including one noteworthy for its lack of ultramarine...

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Victoria has written several books about colour - including 'Colour, Travels through the Paintbox' and 'The Brilliant History of Color in Art' - which involved travelling across the globe to the very places that ancient pigments and dyes came from. Her most recent book is about the hidden histories of fabric.

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You can email us with any questions via podcast@nationalgallery.org.uk

Find out more about the podcast on our website: www.nationalgallery.org.uk/podcast

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Paintings mentioned:

English or French (?), ‘The Wilton Diptych’, About 1395-9 https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/english-or-french-the-wilton-diptych

Michelangelo, ‘The Entombment (or Christ being carried to his Tomb)’, About 1500-1 https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/michelangelo-the-entombment-or-christ-being-carried-to-his-tomb

Sassoferrato, ‘The Virgin and Prayer’, 1640-50 https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/sassoferrato-the-virgin-in-prayer

Titian, ‘Bacchus and Ariadne’, 1520-3 https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/titian-bacchus-and-ariadne

Pierre-Auguste Renoir, ‘The Umbrellas’, About 1881-6 https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/pierre-auguste-renoir-the-umbrellas

Claude Monet, ‘Irises’, About 1914-17 https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/claude-monet-irises

Paul Cezanne, ‘Hillside in Provence’, About 1890-2 https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/paul-cezanne-hillside-in-provence

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Further reading:

Victoria Finlay, ‘Color: A Natural History of the Palette’, 2002

Victoria Finlay, ‘Colour: Travels through the Paintbox’, 2002

Victoria Finlay, ‘The Brilliant History of Color in Art’, 2014

Victoria Finlay, ‘Fabric: The Hidden History of the Material World’, 2021

Cennino Cennini, ‘Il Libro dell Arte’, produced late 14th-century [Book]

Find out more about Ultramarine in our ‘Chemistry of Colour’ YouTube series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EzUlnRtDGM

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Episode credits:

Guest: Victoria Finlay

Host and executive producer: Beks Leary

Producer: Harry Rosehill

Researcher: Hannah Rogers

Technicians: Ian Warren and Tom Gulliver

Video Producers: Jeanne Kenyon and Alessandro Sorenti

Editor: Paul Frankl

Theme music: Theo Elwell