Explorez tous les épisodes du podcast Second Wind by AKA

Consumer psychologist and Thinkerbell founder Adam Ferrier thinks advertising has a bigger problem than AI: the industry is still too focused on making ads.

In this episode of Second Wind, Adam joins Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch to unpack what advertising and marketing look like when you start with human behavior rather than the 30-second script.

Adam explains why the traditional creative model is breaking down, why advertising creatives need a better understanding of how people actually make decisions, and why some of the biggest creative opportunities are hiding in places the industry routinely ignores.

We also get into artificial intelligence and creativity: Adam’s idea of AI as “System 3,” the difference between cognitive offloading and cognitive surrender, and why he believes AI should enhance human creativity rather than simply make agencies more efficient.

Adam Ferrier is a consumer psychologist, author and founder of Thinkerbell. Before Thinkerbell, he co-founded Naked Communications in Australia and worked at Saatchi & Saatchi. His career spans behavioral science, brand strategy, creativity and advertising effectiveness.

In this episode:

* Why advertising needs to think beyond ads
* AI, creativity and the rise of “System 3”
* System 1, System 2 and how AI changes human thinking
* Cognitive offloading vs. cognitive surrender
* Brand building, future demand and category entry points
* Why the 30-second script still dominates advertising
* What’s wrong with the traditional copywriter/art director model
* Why creative people need to understand behavioral science
* How AI is changing advertising production
* Why email, CRM and customer experience are overlooked creative opportunities
* Creativity, craft and the future of advertising agencies

About Adam Ferrier
Adam Ferrier is the founder and Chief Thinker at Thinkerbell and one of Australia’s best-known consumer psychologists. He is the author of The Advertising Effect and Stop Listening to the Customer, and has worked across behavioral psychology, brand strategy and creativity.

Second Wind is a podcast about what happens next in advertising, creativity, marketing and the people reshaping the industry.

Subscribe for more conversations with the people changing advertising and creativity.

Pancho Cassis is Global CCO and Partner at DAVID and one of the creative leaders behind Burger King’s Moldy Whopper, Stevenage Challenge and some of the most awarded advertising of the last decade.

His starting point for every brief is brutally simple: people will do anything to avoid advertising.

On this episode of Second Wind, Pancho joins Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch to talk about what it takes to make work people actually want to see — and why spending $50 million doesn’t mean anyone will care.

We get into what he learned judging the Cannes Lions Titanium category; why famous campaigns have an advantage at award shows; what makes an idea travel across countries and cultures; and whether the advertising industry has simply created too many awards.

Pancho also explains why he doesn’t believe creative culture can be built entirely on Zoom, how DAVID gives junior creatives the chance to shape big ideas, and the lesson his father taught him about persuading clients to buy work that scares them: patience.

Plus, we break down DAVID’s Clash of Clans work with Erling Haaland and Pancho’s philosophy of “milking the stone” — don’t stop when you’ve found a good idea; keep pushing until you’ve extracted everything from it.

Pancho Cassis has won 192 Cannes Lions, including eight Grand Prix and three Titanium Lions, as well as a D&AD Black Pencil and dozens of Effies. His work spans Burger King, Supercell, Coca-Cola, Magnum and some of the most recognized creative campaigns in the world.

Second Wind is a podcast about the people, ideas and forces shaping advertising, creativity and marketing.

Cannes Lions has spent decades defining what great creativity looks like. Effie has done the same for effectiveness.

Paul Kemp-Robertson sits inside both.

As Chief Content Officer of LIONS, Paul has a rare vantage point on the forces shaping the global advertising industry. LIONS brings together Cannes Lions, Effie, WARC and Contagious — institutions that influence what gets celebrated, what gets studied, what gets put on stage and, ultimately, what the industry believes great work looks like.

Paul has also watched the industry change from almost every angle. He started at Shots in the early 1990s, when the world’s best advertising arrived on VHS tapes and call-for-entries went out by fax. He went on to Leo Burnett and co-founded Contagious before becoming Chief Content Officer at LIONS.

So we wanted to ask him a bigger question:

What wins now?

Because advertising is at another strange inflection point.

AI has made the tools of creativity available to almost everyone.

ChatGPT, Claude and the other major AI platforms are rapidly changing how people search, work, make things and consume media. Yet some of the companies building that future are now turning to advertising agencies, brand-building and very human creative work to differentiate themselves.

Paul thinks that’s telling.

We get into Mother’s work for Claude and its attack on ChatGPT; why an industry flooded with frictionless AI content could put a new premium on human creativity; why craft is ultimately a form of respect for the audience; and whether we’re heading towards a world where “100% human made” becomes something worth signalling.

We also go inside the institutions that have spent decades setting the bar for the industry.

What is Cannes Lions actually for now? Do awards still influence the direction of advertising? What separates work that wins awards from work that actually works? Why might the client be the bravest person on an award-winning team? And is safe, generic “wallpaper” advertising actually the biggest risk a brand can take?

Paul takes us inside AXA’s “Three Words,” one of the standout ideas from Cannes Lions, and the difficult boardroom conversations behind adding domestic violence coverage to its insurance policies. It’s a fascinating example of creativity moving beyond communications and into the business itself.

That leads us somewhere even more interesting: what happens when creative people stop being handed a media plan and start getting closer to the product, the organization and the problem?

We talk Oatly’s Department of Mind Control, why some of advertising’s greatest ideas came from creatives wandering around factory floors, the Bitcoin investment Paul wishes he’d made, why curiosity still matters, and what the next generation should know coming into the business.

And after a career spent thinking about some of the world’s most celebrated advertising, Paul tells us what he’d put on his LinkedIn tombstone: “It’s only advertising.”

Paul Kemp-Robertson is Chief Content Officer at LIONS. He co-founded Contagious and previously worked at Shots and Leo Burnett.

Second Wind is a podcast about the people, ideas and forces reshaping advertising, creativity and marketing.

Hosted by Kerrie Finch and Gully Flowers.
A Second Wind podcast by AKA.

“We just have no interest in flooding the public consciousness with ugly noise.”

Justine Armour, International Chief Creative Officer at 72andSunny, joins Second Wind to talk about what great creative work looks like when everyone has access to AI.

Fresh from serving as a D&AD Jury President, Justine talks about why human craft is becoming more conspicuous, what separates genuinely creative cultures from agencies that merely talk about creativity, and why 72andSunny has no interest in joining the race to make more, cheaper content.

We get into what 72andSunny has learned from working with e.l.f., why strategists and creatives should be “getting up in each other’s shit,” and Justine’s five ingredients for great work: simple, surprising, audacious, craft and energy.

Justine also explains why Australian creatives tend to spend longer mastering their craft, why she once turned down an ECD opportunity because she didn’t think she’d made enough great work yet, and the Guinness “Surfer” ad that changed her understanding of what advertising could be.

Plus: AI and creativity, D&AD, e.l.f., Wieden+Kennedy, creative leadership, agency culture, optimism without toxic positivity, tall poppy syndrome, and why Justine remains determined not to be average.

Justine Armour is International Chief Creative Officer at 72andSunny.

Second Wind is a podcast about what happens after you’ve made it — and what the best people in advertising, design and creativity learn next.

Search Second Wind by AKA.

#Advertising #CreativeLeadership #AI

Most products are designed for someone who doesn’t exist.

The average user.

David Vogel, Executive Experience Director at Hypersolid and former AKQA design leader, argues that the idea of a “normal” human has quietly shaped everything from schools and workplaces to digital products, customer experiences, and AI. The problem is that normal was never real.

In this episode of Second Wind, David joins Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch to explore why neurodiversity changes the way we think about accessibility, why crash test dummies reveal a deeper flaw in modern design, and why designing for edge cases often creates better experiences for everyone.

The conversation also looks ahead. David explains why ChatGPT is only the earliest interface for AI, why brands should be careful about outsourcing customer relationships to AI platforms, and how intelligent experiences could reshape products, retail, and personalization over the next decade.

• Why there is no such thing as a “normal” user

• How ADHD and neurodiversity challenge traditional design thinking

• What crash test dummies teach us about accessibility

• Why designing for edge cases creates better products for everyone

• Why ChatGPT is only the beginning of AI

• How brands can embrace AI without giving away the customer relationship

• What intelligent experiences could mean for the future of retail, work, and customer experience

Guest: David Vogel, Executive Experience Director at Hypersolid

Hosts: Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch

AI isn’t changing marketing. It’s changing what a brand is.

In this episode of Second Wind, Craig Elimeliah, Chief Creative Officer at Code and Theory, introduces a concept we haven’t been able to stop thinking about since recording: brand refounding.

For years, companies have talked about brand transformation. Craig argues we’re entering something much bigger. AI isn’t simply making marketers faster. It’s forcing organizations to rethink the foundations of how brands are built, governed and remembered.

We explore why AI exposes disconnected organizations, why brand consistency becomes more valuable as content scales, why consumers are becoming dramatically harder to fool, and why creative leaders are increasingly responsible for shaping entire businesses, not just campaigns.

In this conversation:

• What “brand refounding” actually means

• Why AI is exposing weak brand systems

• The difference between brand transformation and brand refounding

• Why speed, scale and brand no longer have to compete

• How AI creates organizational memory instead of disconnected campaigns

• Why creative leaders are becoming business leaders

• The future of agencies, brands and creative operating systems

• What every CMO should understand before investing in another AI tool

Craig Elimeliah is the Chief Creative Officer at Code and Theory, one of the world’s leading digital transformation and creative technology companies. Throughout his career, he’s helped shape products, platforms and brand systems for many of the world’s most influential organizations.

Second Wind is hosted by Gully Flowers and Jake Neske, founders of AKA. Each episode features candid conversations with the creative leaders, CMOs, founders and operators shaping the future of advertising, branding, design, AI and business.

If you work in marketing, advertising, brand strategy, creative leadership, AI or digital transformation, this conversation will give you a new framework for thinking about what comes next.

What does it take to lead one of the world’s biggest brands?

Jo Shoesmith joins Kerrie Finch and Gully Flowers shortly after becoming Chief Brand Officer at Amazon to discuss leadership, AI, creativity, agency relationships, and why the best leaders never stop proving themselves.

From Amazon’s leadership principles to building trust, influencing at scale, and preparing for a future shaped by AI, this is a practical conversation for anyone leading creative teams, brands, or businesses.

In this episode:

• Becoming Amazon’s Chief Brand Officer
• Amazon’s approach to leadership and trust
• How AI is changing creative work
• Working with agencies more effectively
• Why great leaders prove themselves every day
• Building influence beyond the creative department

About Second Wind by AKA

Second Wind by AKA features candid conversations with the creative leaders, founders, CMOs, producers, and operators shaping modern marketing, business, and culture.

New episodes every other Tuesday.

https://hey-aka.com/second-wind

AI is making execution cheaper. Brands are building stronger in-house teams. Holding companies are consolidating. Production companies are being pushed further downstream.

So what are agencies still uniquely for?

Anthony Reeves has spent his career inside some of the world’s biggest agency networks and brands. He has worked at WPP multiple times, held senior roles at Amazon and LVMH, and now leads Global Brand and Creative at Kohler.

Anthony joins Gully Flowers to discuss why agencies cannot win on efficiency, Kohler’s line on synthetic people, why too much data can weaken a creative brief, how fear changes the work, and why AI may make brand more valuable rather than less.

They also get into creative apprenticeship, why great talent clusters, the danger of becoming too comfortable, and Anthony’s book, Eat the Donkey.

Follow Second Wind for honest conversations with the people shaping the creative business.

Chapters

00:00 Why agencies can’t win on efficiency

00:39 Anthony Reeves

01:21 Moving to Kohler, Wisconsin

01:55 The job of a creative leader

02:36 Kohler’s line on synthetic people

04:14 How AI changed since Cannes 2018

06:01 Has more data improved the creative brief?

08:40 What happened to the holding companies?

10:14 What brands still need agencies for

12:44 Fear changes the work

14:01 How to lead creative teams

18:55 Why AI makes brand more valuable

21:18 Eat the Donkey

25:56 Advice for young creatives

28:19 Why great talent clusters

30:22 Reinvesting in people and brand

31:22 The danger of being downstream

32:40 A better North Star

Susan Credle has helped build some of the most famous advertising characters of the last 30 years, from the M&M’s ensemble to Allstate’s Mayhem. In this episode of Second Wind, she joins Kerrie Finch and Gully Flowers for a sharp, funny and unusually honest conversation about what makes creative work last.

Susan talks about seeing brands as characters, how M&M’s grew from candy mascots into a comedic ensemble, why Mayhem worked because it was deeply strategic, and what great clients do that risk-averse ones often miss.

She also gets into one of the biggest tensions in modern advertising: the gap between work that wins awards and work that reaches real people. From the rise of case studies to the decline of truly populist creative, Susan makes the case for work that does not need to be followed around and explained.

This is a conversation about brave clients, fragile progress, creative leadership, the pressure of becoming one of the first female CCOs in America, and why the best work should make someone in the world say thank you.

Marques Gartrell is Co-CCO of Wieden+Kennedy New York, the agency behind work for Nike, McDonald’s, Delta, and Michelob Ultra.

In this episode of Second Wind:

• how the Travis Scott meal started from a tweet
• why the Grimace Shake became internet folklore
• how W+K made “Horizontal Breakfast” in 7 days
• why brands are competing with childhood memories
• what young creatives get wrong
• why Marques still keeps Photoshop open

A conversation about culture, instinct, taste, speed, and making work people actually carry around with them.

The best work stops feeling like advertising and starts feeling like part of someone’s life.

Andrew McKechnie is Head of Business Creative Studio at OpenAI. Before that he was SVP and Chief Creative Officer at Verizon, where he ran a $3 billion marketing budget and built a 300-person in-house agency.

Before that he was Global Head of Design Group at Apple. Across his career he has won a Gold Cannes Lion, multiple D&AD pencils, six straight Webbys, and an Emmy nomination.

He sits down with Gully Flowers to talk about what happens when a creative decides the brief is too late, and the only way to do better work is to move upstream.

They cover what the agency model got wrong, why it was an operating issue and not a talent issue, what a real in-house team is and is not, why physical craft matters more in the AI era, and what OpenAI's merch program reveals about modern brand building.

A conversation for anyone leading creative work inside a brand, agency, or startup right now.

Craig Allen wrote the Skittles spot where a man accidentally murders his family with rainbow candy. He helped make the Old Spice response campaign ; 286 videos in 36 hours, one every 7 minutes, until they broke YouTube. Then he left Wieden+Kennedy, asked Dan Wieden what to call his new agency, and got told every name was stupid.

This week on Second Wind, the founder and CCO of CALLEN sits down with Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch to talk about how to sell ideas that scare clients to death.

Inside the episode:

- Why the best risky ideas are “stupid smart” — and how to make a CMO feel dumb for not buying them

- The real story behind the Skittles Touch shoot: explosives, cops, a $$$$ glass desk filled with hundreds of thousands of real Skittles, and one PA running through the shot

- How a six-person writers’ room turned Old Spice into the fastest creative operation in advertising history

- Why Dan Wieden made him put his own name on the agency (and why it changed how he works)

- The case for fun as a strategic weapon, not a vibe

- What independent agencies have to do now that the holding cos have stopped pretending to care about creativity

Craig has won two Cannes Grand Prix, the Grand Effie, Best in Show at The One Show, two black D&AD pencils, an Emmy, and was once named one of the 50 sexiest creatives in the world by Creativity Magazine. We do not let him forget it.

Second Wind is a Webby Honoree podcast at the intersection of creativity, leadership, and advertising. Hosted by Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch of AKA. New episodes fortnightly.

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Eric Kallman is the co-founder and chief creative officer of Erich & Kallman, the independent agency behind standout work for brands like Reese’s, King’s Hawaiian, Franzia, Toyota and more. Before that, he helped create some of the most iconic advertising of the last two decades, including Old Spice, Skittles, Little Caesars, Kayak and Ragu. Erich & Kallman was named Ad Age’s 2024 Small Agency of the Year and was later recognized as a 2025 A-List standout.

In this episode of Second Wind, Eric talks about how Old Spice almost died before it changed culture, why absurd work only works when the product truth is dead simple, and what most young creatives are skipping when they chase shortcuts. He gets into the discipline behind funny advertising, the value of silence in the creative process, why six weeks and 250 scripts used to be normal, and how AI can help if it gives creatives more time to think instead of less.

Topics include Old Spice, Skittles, creative discipline, copywriting, campaign craft, small agencies, advertising fundamentals, AI in creative work, and what it takes to make funny ads that actually sell.

Micah Walker, co-founder of Bear Meets Eagle on Fire, joins Second Wind for a sharp conversation on what it really takes to make better work.

He talks about building an agency that refuses to become a smaller version of the big networks, why caring too hard is a feature not a flaw, why the best ideas should never arrive with a safety option, and how great production turns good thinking into something people can actually feel.

This one is about creative conviction, craft, culture, and the kind of standards that make the work unforgettable.

Matt Cooper, founder of Little Black Book, joins Second Wind to talk about how LBB became the most visited creative platform in the world, why awards are becoming toxic, why the work no longer speaks for itself, and what the industry still gets wrong about reputation, craft, and growth.

We get into the rise of indie agencies like Bear Meets Eagle On Fire, why clients and agencies need more belief, how creative companies should use platforms like LBB properly, what young people misunderstand about the industry, and why Matt thinks AI is being talked about all wrong.

If you care about creativity, reputation, production, agency growth, or where the business is heading next, this one’s worth your time.

Una Walsh has spent 25 years working at the seam between what a brand promises and what a customer actually feels — from Virgin Atlantic and Nike's House of Innovation to Apple, and now as Executive Experience Design Director at Google.

In this conversation, Una and co-hosts Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch dig into why retail has gotten boring, what brands like Nike and LOEWE are doing differently, and why the obsession with frictionless efficiency is quietly killing brand joy.

They also get into AI, craft, and why a sewing machine doesn't make you a fashion designer.

Topics covered:

– Why Virgin Atlantic was Una's first lesson in holistic brand experience

– The Nike Soho flagship: what went wrong on opening day and how they fixed it

– The retail ritual that makes the Nike shoe box moment magic

– How Google is thinking about physical retail for its devices and hardware

– "We moved from the age of information to the age of imagination" — Es Devlin

– Why creatives still need to sell their ideas, no matter how senior they get

– AI as a sparring partner, not a shortcut

Second Wind is hosted by Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch. New episodes every other Tuesday.

Jason Sperling is the Chief Creative Officer at INNOCEAN ; and one of the creative leaders behind Apple’s legendary “Mac vs PC” campaign.

In this episode of Second Wind, Jason shares what it was really like presenting to Steve Jobs every Wednesday, surviving brutal creative cycles at TBWA\Chiat\Day, and helping turn “I’m a Mac” into one of the most influential campaigns of the century.

We also get into:

• Convincing Steve Jobs to run digital banner ads

• Writing body copy to land a job at Chiat

• The six-month grind behind Mac vs PC

• Making Honda’s Ferris Bueller Super Bowl spot

• Directing Bruce Willis after he walked off set

• Why taste matters more than tools in the AI era

• How creative leaders survive the jump from maker to manager

• The future of agencies in an AI-driven world

If you care about advertising, leadership, creative resilience, or how iconic work actually gets made — this one is for you.

David Kolbusz is Chief Creative Officer at Orchard, with a career across Droga5 London, Wieden Kennedy New York, BBH London, Goodby Silverstein, Mother, and TBWA Toronto.

In this episode, we talk about what actually makes advertising work stick. Mental hooks that live in your head. The difference between chasing culture and understanding it. And why David thinks the industry needs to be more honest about the myth we repeat, that “the work comes first.”

We also break down recent examples David loves, including a meme-driven taco ad and KitKat’s Break Squad, as a way to talk about creative restraint, timing, and leadership in modern advertising.

Kevin Frank has lived the full arc. Apple Creative Director for nearly a decade, then Executive Creative Director at LinkedIn, where he helped turn the team into Ad Age In House Agency of the Year and a two time Best Places to Work honoree.

After LinkedIn, he hit pause on the corporate grind and moved to Paris. He taught at The American University of Paris, mentored creative leaders, wrote a book on leading creative teams, and even joined an Elvis cover band, because why not.

We talk about what it means to lead creatives when nobody teaches you how, how craft survives inside massive systems, how to build a team that runs like a machine without losing its soul, and what a real reset looks like when you have the courage to take one.

Creativity isn’t a “nice to have” - it’s infrastructure for growth.

Simon Cook, CEO of Cannes Lions, shares what the world’s top leaders are learning about turning creativity into a repeatable system that drives brand building, innovation, and business growth - even when budgets tighten and AI reshapes the rules.

In this episode, we cover:

• From polishing trophies to leading Cannes Lions: Simon’s path (and what he learned along the way)

• Why Cannes is shifting from celebrating outputs to rewarding the inputs behind great work (the new Creative Brand Lion)

• What 50 global CEOs said about unlocking the next chapter of growth through creativity

• How to build “conditions for success”: culture, rituals, accountability, KPIs, and creative infrastructure

• Creators at Cannes: what the creator economy means for brands, platforms, and agencies

• AI integrity standards: protecting trust, authenticity, and authorship in creative work

If you’re a CMO, founder, agency leader, or anyone trying to make the business case for creativity, this one’s for you.

Follow Second Wind for more conversations at the intersection of creativity, marketing, and growth.

Chapters:

00:00 Intro

00:43 From agency to Cannes

04:55 Creativity as infrastructure

06:15 The Global CEO Forum

11:25 Reframing creativity as innovation

16:35 Creators, brands, platforms

22:15 Access, ERA, talent pipeline

28:40 AI integrity standards

34:55 Legacy: creativity as a system

Kelly Knapp has helped shape some of the most ambitious experiential work in the world; from the $2 billion Sphere in Las Vegas to Netflix’s first permanent venues and the Victoria’s Secret Fashion Show.

In this episode of Second Wind, Kelly shares how a background in ballet, music, landscape architecture, and extreme outdoor exploration informs her belief that creative work is choreography; the careful layering of elements to create meaning at scale.

We talk about immersive audio, designing for empathy, why she’s skeptical of AI in the creative process, and what it takes to build experiences that feel human even when the technology is anything but.

Diane McArter is the founder of Furlined, one of the most respected production companies in the industry.

In this episode, Diane reflects on leadership, power, and what it really means to build a culture where people can do their best work.

She shares her journey from early leadership at Ridley Scott Associates to founding Furlined, navigating fear, responsibility, and reinvention along the way. We talk about women in leadership, servant leadership, the role of trust, and why a company’s culture is shaped by everyone who enters it.

Diane also discusses Manifest Works, her nonprofit creating career pathways for people impacted by foster care, homelessness, and incarceration, and why leadership at its best is an act of service.

This is a conversation about growth, empathy, creative courage, and building something that lasts.

Carmen Rodriguez didn’t get her first job in advertising by talking about advertising.

She got it by talking about soccer.

In this episode of Second Wind, Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch sit down with Carmen Rodriguez, Global Chief Growth Officer at GUT, to unpack a career built on passion, trust, and a deep belief in the power of creativity.

Born in São Paulo and now based in Amsterdam, Carmen shares how growing up in Brazil shaped her view of advertising as part of popular culture, why bravery isn’t a personality trait but a practice, and how GUT has grown from a bold idea into one of the most talked-about agencies in the world.

They cover:

• The interview that launched her career at Leo Burnett at age 17
• Why GUT “interviews” clients before pitching
• The “bravery gap” between people and brands
• How long-term client relationships outperform short-term wins
• Why “the best advertising for an agency is still the work”
• What hybrid work, diversity, and trust actually look like inside a modern creative company
• And why Carmen’s definition of success is simple: work that works, and work your aunt would share on WhatsApp

A conversation about growth without cynicism, creativity without ego, and why conviction still compounds.

This episode of Second Wind breaks from our usual interviews to reflect on 2025 and the people who actually built reputation in the advertising industry.

We introduce a set of intentionally made-up awards to recognize the agencies and marketers who stood out this year. The slow burns. The breakout hits. The teams that thrived in chaos. The ones who made invisible work visible.

Along the way, we talk about what reputation really compounds today.

Point of view. Taste. Talent. Timing.

And why memorability is no longer accidental.

If you care about where advertising is headed, and what actually lasts, this episode is for you.

Xanthe Wells is VP of Global Creative at Pinterest, where she leads the House of Creative, recently named In-House Agency of the Year at the Gerety Awards.

Before Pinterest, she led global creative for Google’s Pixel and Nest brands, earning a Cannes Grand Prix, a D&AD Black Pencil, and multiple Agency of the Year honors.

Earlier in her career, she worked on Finding Nemo, The Incredibles, and Monsters, Inc., and spent formative years at TBWA\Chiat\Day with Lee Clow.

In this episode of Second Wind, Xanthe shares a philosophy of creative leadership that runs counter to most playbooks. Pressure feels productive, but it narrows thinking. Relaxation isn’t a luxury. It’s a creative requirement.

We talk about building psychologically safe teams, why lowering the stakes leads to better work, and how to protect creativity inside high-pressure organizations. Xanthe also shares lessons from Pixar, Google, and Pinterest, her perspective on AI as a creative tool, and why human taste, humor, and empathy still matter more than ever.

This is a conversation about leading creatives with generosity, clarity, and trust, even when millions of dollars are on the line.

Cindy Gallop built BBH US from a room with a phone. She became one of the most influential voices in advertising and then walked away with no job to go to. It was the best decision she ever made. 

In this episode, Cindy talks about why a job is not the safe option and why placing your future in the hands of a corporation is more dangerous than betting on yourself. She explains the daily drip of microaggressions that kill confidence, why most women never get the support they deserve, and why her advice is simple: get the f*ck out and build something that gives you agency. 

We also talk about BBH, MakeLoveNotPorn, pitch culture, leadership, sex education, and why the future is female and founder-led. 

This is Cindy at her most direct and most generous.

Billy Bohan Chinique, VP of Marketing and Digital Innovation at Virgin Voyages, joins us to talk about the future of travel, fashion, AI, and brand storytelling.

He shares how he went from call-center sales to designing digital experiences, how he ended up styling Sir Richard Branson, and why showing up as your real self became an accelerant for his career.

We get into Jen.AI, the Jennifer Lopez campaign that pushed AI before it was cool, the making of Virgin’s AI-powered mermaids, the shift toward creators, and why “brand as operating system” is the only approach that still makes sense.

If you care about creativity, travel, leadership, or the next frontier of marketing, this is a conversation worth hearing.

Chapters:

00:00 Styling Richard Branson

02:10 Fashion and authenticity

03:55 Breaking into travel

06:50 Building Virgin Voyages’ digital platform

11:05 The origin of Jen.AI with J.Lo

16:00 AI-powered mermaids

19:50 Brand as operating system

26:20 The new creator economy

32:00 Talent, hiring, and AI literacy

36:20 Becoming an AI-native company

39:40 Billy’s legacy

John Schoolcraft helped turn Oatly from a quiet Swedish oat drink into one of the most talked-about brands on the planet. No marketing department. No traditional briefs. No safety nets. Just creativity, rebellion, and a CEO who let the work lead.

In this conversation, John breaks down how he:

• Killed the CMO role and replaced it with makers

• Turned lawsuits into creative fuel

• Used packaging as media when there was no budget

• Made baristas the launch strategy that cracked the US market

• Built a fearless culture that treated creativity as a business engine

It’s a masterclass in brand building from one of the most influential creative leaders alive.

Listen for the story behind the Super Bowl ad, the behind-the-scenes battles with the dairy industry, and why trust inside a company beats process every time.

Nick Law explains the split that defines modern creativity. Inventive thinking and expressive thinking. How they collide, how they fail, and how the best teams make them work together. We cover his path from Australia to Pentagram to RGA to Accenture Song, the collapse of the old agency model, how platform culture reshapes craft, and what AI means for the next generation. A grounded conversation about what it takes to make work that matters now.

Emmy-winning creative leader Danielle Hawley, Global Head of Creative and Brand at Uber, joins hosts Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch to talk about leadership, trust, and creative evolution.

From redefining Uber’s global voice to mentoring women in a male-dominated industry, Danielle shares how earning respect starts with generosity, not ego. She reflects on lessons from Microsoft’s Iron Man prosthetic project, how collaboration built her confidence, and why the best creative relationships begin with trust.

In this episode:

• How great clients make great work

• What “sharp elbows” teach you early in your career

• When to lead with empathy instead of ego

• The creative culture shift inside Uber

• What it takes to build respect in tech and advertising

What if every great idea started with a song?

Before writing a word or pitching a concept, Emmy-winning creative Jaime Robinson (Co-Founder and CCO of JOAN) finds a song that makes her feel exactly what she wants others to feel.

In this episode, Jaime joins Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch to talk about:

• Building JOAN into one of the most admired independent agencies in the world

• How emotion (not strategy decks) powers the best creative work

• The story behind the Womanikin — a life-saving design that changed CPR training forever

• The future of creativity in the age of AI, and what it really means to “win for humanity”

• Why the next generation of creatives deserves new ways in

A conversation about feeling first, leading boldly, and building work that actually matters.

🎙️ Second Wind — candid conversations with the most creative minds in business.

He’s the mind behind Taste the Rainbow.

The man who convinced Mars, Unilever, and half of Madison Avenue to take creative risks — and made the weirdest, funniest, most unforgettable ads in history.

In this episode of Second Wind, Gully Flowers and Jake Neske sit down with Gerry Graf - founder of Barton F. Graf and SLAP Global, and the creative force behind Skittles Pinata, Starburst Little Lad, You’re Not You When You’re Hungry, and Ragu: Long Day of Childhood.

They unpack how Gerry made it all happen:

– How Skittles went from safe to surreal

– How “You’re Not You When You’re Hungry” was launched

– What it takes to sell bold work inside giant corporations

– The secret to making brands funny and effective

– How one brief, one risk, and one rule changed advertising forever

A 39-minute masterclass in creative conviction — and a reminder that great ads aren’t written, they’re fought for.

🎙️ Second Wind is known for candid conversations with the biggest names in the business.

#GerryGraf #Advertising #Creativity #SecondWind #Marketing #Skittles #Snickers #Starburst #Ragu

Chapin Clark has seen the creative industry evolve from Flash microsites to AI-driven campaigns - and somehow, he’s kept the soul of it intact.

In this conversation, the legendary voice behind R/GA’s Twitter talks about surviving 25 years inside one of the world’s most influential agencies, mentoring creatives like Paulie Dery, and finding the balance between craft and chaos in the digital age.

It’s a masterclass in creative endurance, reinvention, and remembering what actually makes ideas stick.

Jean Batthany led creative at two of the world’s biggest brands.

In this episode, she talks about the tension between structure and imagination, and what it takes to keep creativity alive inside corporate systems.

From navigating layers of approval to protecting the spark that makes ideas matter, Jean shares how she built cultures of trust, risk-taking, and empathy inside the world’s most complex organizations.

This is a conversation about the clash between process and possibility - and how great leaders make space for magic inside the machine.

Sadira Furlow’s career is a study in reinvention, from Pepsi’s viral Super Bowl moments (Puppy Monkey Baby, anyone?) to leading global brand and communications at Tony’s Chocolonely. In this conversation, she joins Gully Flowers and Kerrie Finch to talk about trading scale for soul, humor as activism, and what it takes to make ethical storytelling irresistible.

She opens up about:

• Her journey from aspiring orthopedic surgeon to Adweek Brand Genius.
• How Tony’s turned a chocolate bar into a global protest.
• Why discomfort is a compass for growth.
• The line between AI as a tool and AI as a crutch.
• And what “radical transparency” really looks like in business.

A vivid, funny, deeply human look at how creativity, conscience, and curiosity collide.

Fabio Ruffet leads some of the world’s most loved brands — including Twix, Snickers, and Mars’ global gum portfolio — but his creative journey started with a bold move: spending all he had on the fanciest envelopes in Argentina to land his first job.

In this Second Wind conversation with Gully Flowers and Jake Neske, Fabio reflects on his path from agencies like Ogilvy and Havas to leading brand experience across Europe and beyond. He shares:

• Why consistency is the most powerful tool for long-term brand building.

• How Mars is using AI and technology to expand creativity in unexpected ways.

• Lessons from iconic campaigns like Snickers x Mourinho AI persona and Twix Harmonizer.

• The role of curiosity, tenacity, and collaboration in building a resilient career.

• Why rejection, like auditions for actors, is essential for creative growth.

This is a candid look at the craft of brand building from someone shaping how billions experience some of the world’s most iconic products.

In this episode of Second Wind, Wes ter Haar the Co-Founder of MediaMonks, reflects on how digital marketing has evolved, the role of AI in reshaping the industry, and why cultural values and leadership matter more than ever.

From scaling MediaMonks from a local shop to a global powerhouse, to navigating today’s AI-driven transformation, Wes shares lessons on:

• Adapting to the shifting digital landscape
• The pressures and opportunities AI creates for agencies and marketing teams
• How leadership by example and cultural values define long-term success
• Why agencies must rethink business models to stay relevant in the future

This is one of the most important conversations we’ve had on creativity, leadership, and the business of marketing in decades.

👉 Share this with a friend in the industry who’s thinking about AI, growth, and the future of agencies.

Greg Hahn - Chief Creative Officer and co-founder of Mischief - joins Second Wind to unpack the art of creating work that’s as fun as it is fearless. From his early days in psychology and journalism to leading one of the most awarded agencies in the world, Greg shares how Mischief built a culture where risk-taking thrives.

In this episode, Greg reflects on:

• The journey from psychology to advertising—and what that brings to creativity

• How to build safe spaces that encourage brave, culture-shaping ideas

• The role of strategy in helping clients embrace bold work

• The impact of AI on creativity and the future of the industry

• Why fun, authenticity, and legacy matter in creative leadership

A candid conversation about creativity, culture, and the mischievous spirit that keeps advertising alive.

In this conversation, Gully Flowers interviews Diana, with Jake Neske perched off camera.

Diana is a creative leader with extensive experience in both agency and brand environments. They discuss her journey from a designer to a creative director, the importance of creative briefs, and the evolving media landscape, particularly the impact of platforms like TikTok. Diana emphasizes the need for collaboration between agencies and brands, the significance of mentorship for young talent, and her vision for a creative culture that values innovation and personal connection. The discussion also touches on the future of creativity in business and the legacy Diana hopes to leave behind.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to Creative Leadership

02:49 The Journey from Agency to Brand

06:10 Navigating the Evolving Media Landscape

08:59 The Role of Agencies in Modern Marketing

11:54 The Importance of Collaboration and Mentorship

15:04 Experiential Marketing and Community Building

17:50 The Future of Creativity in Business

21:00 Finding and Nurturing Young Talent

23:46 Creative Processes and Innovation

26:54 Legacy and Personal Values

In this episode, Gully Flowers sits down with James Kuczynski, Global Senior Creative Director at Duolingo, to unpack how one of the world’s most recognizable brands keeps creativity playful—and performance high. From the viral “Dead Duo” campaign to the way Duolingo uses social media as a storytelling engine, James shares how fun fuels innovation, why risk is part of the job, and where he thinks brand strategy is headed next.

You’ll hear:

• Why “fun” is Duolingo’s not-so-secret growth engine

• How to balance creative freedom with process

• Lessons from the “Dead Duo” campaign

• How audience sentiment shapes brand messaging

• The future of authentic, platform-native marketing

Summary

In this conversation, Gully Flowers talks to Joey Camire, CEO of Sylvain, who shares insights on creativity, conflict, and the importance of social responsibility in business.

They discuss his journey from neuroscience to founding a strategy and design firm, the impact of high-profile projects, and the significance of B Corp certification.

Joey emphasizes the need for diversity and inclusion in the workplace and offers advice for new graduates entering a challenging job market. He also highlights the importance of writing and communication in enhancing one's thinking and creativity.

Takeaways

• Conflict can lead to better outcomes if approached respectfully.

• B Corp certification for consultants
• Diversity in teams enhances creativity and problem-solving.
• Writing improves thinking and communication skills.
• Physical movement can enhance focus and creativity.
• Engaging with diverse ideas fosters innovation.
• It's important to call out hypocrisy in the industry.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background of Joey Camire

00:23 The Importance of Strategy and Planning in Advertising

02:30 Founding Sylvain and Early Experiences

05:21 High-Profile Projects and Achievements

08:03 The Genesis of the Impact Report

08:55 B Corp Certification and Its Significance

11:46 Navigating Challenges in Professional Services

14:43 The Open Letter and Its Context

17:31 Cultural Relevance in Marketing

20:34 Conclusion and Reflections on Impact

28:02 Core Values and Company Culture

34:28 Navigating Career Challenges for New Graduates

39:25 The Importance of In-Person Engagement

47:00 Creative Processes and Personal Growth

50:04 Legacy and Being a Good Person

In this episode, Gully Flowers and Jake Neske interview GMUNK AKA Bradley Munkowitz, a pioneering designer and artist known for his work in motion design, projection mapping, and augmented reality.

GMUNK shares insights into his career journey, personal life, and the impact of AI on creativity. He discusses the importance of personal projects, the challenges of full spectrum photography, and his daily routines that help him balance work and family life. The conversation also touches on the evolving landscape of art and technology, and GMUNK's advice for aspiring creatives.

Jake Neske and Gully Flowers, co-founders of Also Known As sat down with David Lee, Chief Creative Officer at Squarespace, live at SXSW in Austin to discuss the intersection of creativity, technology, and business.

David shares insights from his career journey, emphasizing the importance of creativity in driving business success and the need for creatively trained individuals in leadership roles.

The discussion also touches on the future of work, the role of education in fostering creativity, and the evolving landscape of C-suite roles.

Takeaways

• Creativity is essential for business success.

• The entrepreneurial itch drives innovation.
• Creativity should be viewed as a competitive sport.
• In-house creativity can rival external agencies.
• Education should focus on fostering creativity and critical thinking.
• Human craft will be the new luxury in the future.
• The future of work will prioritize creative jobs.
• Leadership roles will increasingly require creative thinkers.
• The next five years will be crucial for the evolution of creative roles.

We had the pleasure of sitting down at SXSW with Paulie Dery, Chief Marketing Officer at AG1.

Paulie shared his insights on brand building, the importance of knowing your audience, and the relationship between creativity and performance marketing. He discusses his journey from R/GA to Uber to Yeti and now AG1, the significance of community engagement. Dery emphasizes the need for brands to stay true to their identity while adapting to market changes and highlights the role of creativity in driving business success. In this conversation, Kerrie Finch, Paulie Dery, and Gully Flowers explore the dynamics of community engagement, the importance of targeting core audiences, and the cultural differences in advertising between Australia and the U.S. They discuss the journey of moving to the U.S. and the role of technology in enhancing creativity. The conversation also delves into the significance of creative leadership, the shift towards in-house teams, and the importance of process in fostering creativity. They reflect on the role of marketing in business, learning from mistakes, and the necessity of justifying creative investments. The discussion concludes with insights on creating meaningful brands and empowering young creatives.

Takeaways

• Know who you are and who you're not.
• Focus on your core audience to build a strong brand.
• Community engagement is crucial for brand loyalty.
• Creativity drives success in marketing and advertising.
• Transitioning between brands can reveal valuable insights.

• Performance marketing should complement brand building.
• Building relationships with ambassadors enhances brand authenticity.
• Understanding community needs can guide product development.

• Creative leadership is crucial for brand success.
• In-house teams can streamline creative processes.
• Understanding the business is key for agencies.
• Mistakes are valuable learning opportunities.
• Brand energy is a KPI
• Empowering young creatives leads to innovative ideas.

Peter Giorgi has led marketing for some of the world’s most recognized brands, from Bacardi to Celebrity Cruises, and now as SVP of Marketing at Rocket.

LIVE from SXSW, he joins Second Wind to share what it really takes to lead with bravery and creativity in a world obsessed with data.

In this conversation, Peter reflects on:

• Reinventing Bacardi while staying true to its heritage

• How Celebrity Cruises found cultural relevance through bold ideas

• Why the best briefs should “pick a fight”

• The role of instinct in an industry ruled by metrics

• What bravery looks like in marketing leadership today

A candid conversation about risk, reinvention, and the art of creating brands people actually care about.