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A student can know how to cold call, write an email, and run through a sales pitch. But would a sales manager actually want to hire them?

In this episode Dr. BJ Allen and I compare notes from our experience working with sales teams, recruiters, and college students.

Why Grit Matters More Than Sales Tactics

• Sales is hard, and students need to know that before they enter the profession. Recruiters want people who can handle difficult situations, hear “no” repeatedly, and keep their confidence and energy.
• Summer sales gives many students a tough introduction to selling. They may knock doors for hours, face rejection all day, and deal with difficult situations. While that experience is very different from B2B sales, recruiters value it because it can show that a student has grit.
• The real value of that experience is not simply knowing how to sell pest control or solar. It is proving that you can keep working after hearing “no” again and again.
• Grit can also be developed in the classroom. Teaching students about growth and fixed mindsets, helping them understand their “why,” and giving them challenging experiences can prepare them for the pressure of professional selling.

Why Recruiters Want People Who Can Fail

• One of the best interview questions discussed in the episode is simple: “Tell me about a failure you’ve had.” The answer can reveal far more than a perfect success story.
• Saying that you have never failed may suggest that you avoid risk, experimentation, and difficult situations. Sales managers need people who are willing to try something, learn from what happens, and try again.
• The important part is not the failure itself. Recruiters want to know what went wrong, what the candidate could have done differently, and what they learned from the experience.
• The same principle applies after someone gets hired. Strong salespeople do not spend all their time blaming the lead, the company, the product, or management. They look at what they could have done better and use the lesson to improve.

Why Creativity Can Help a Candidate Stand Out

• Sales teams can give new reps a playbook, but they still need people who can think beyond it. Creativity can help a salesperson find new ways to reach prospects when the usual emails and calls are not working.
• One example involved using LinkedIn in a more creative way. Instead of relying only on calls and emails, a salesperson used videos, posts, comments, and LinkedIn voice messages to create more opportunities.
• Creativity also matters when students are looking for jobs. A candidate who sends a LinkedIn video or finds an unexpected way to introduce themselves can give a recruiter a reason to remember them.
• One student even sent a dozen donuts with a note explaining why the company should hire him, with each donut representing a reason to consider him. The point was not the donuts. It was showing that he could think differently.

Why Curiosity Matters to Sales Managers

• Curiosity is another trait worth looking for when hiring salespeople. Curious people are more willing to try new things, ask questions, experiment, and learn from what happens.
• A curious candidate does not need to have every answer before joining the team. They need to show that they are willing to learn and figure things out.
• This is especially important because many of the technical parts of sales can be taught on the job. A company can teach its process, tools, messaging, and products. It is harder to teach someone to care about learning and improving.
• That is why sales educators should look beyond tactical skills. Teaching students how to make calls and write emails matters, but developing the mindset behind those actions can have a much bigger impact on their careers.

What Recruiters Really See in Sales Students

• Sales recruiters are not always looking for students who already know how their company sells. They are often looking for people with the qualities that will help them learn and succeed inside the company.
• Grit, curiosity, creativity, and a willingness to fail can tell an employer that a student has the foundation to grow. The tactical parts of the job can then be taught.
• This also changes what professors should focus on. A sales curriculum does not need to perfectly copy one company's sales process to prepare students for work.
• The goal is to help students develop the qualities that allow them to adapt when the company, product, buyer, market, or sales process changes.

How to Help Students Stand Out in a Crowded Job Market

• A strong resume may not be enough when recruiters are reviewing large numbers of candidates. Students need to find ways to show what makes them different.
• Creative outreach can help. A thoughtful LinkedIn video, a personal message, or an unusual but relevant introduction can show initiative before the student ever gets an interview.
• The best creative ideas are connected to the candidate's value. The goal is not to be strange for the sake of being memorable. It is to give the recruiter a reason to think, “This person thinks differently.”
• Sales professors can teach this by challenging students to approach their own job searches like sales opportunities. Research the buyer, understand what matters to them, find a creative way in, and make the case for why they should care.

“We’re not looking for the tactical skill side. First and foremost, give me these other things that are going to help them be a really magnificent seller.” — Donald C. Kelly

Resources

• Sales 101: The B2B Sales Classroom courseware
• LinkedIn, for creative prospecting and job outreach.

What if “no” is actually where the sale begins?

Chris Stevens spent almost 50 years in sales, including time at Procter & Gamble, Keurig, and Anheuser-Busch. Now, he brings those lessons into the classroom, where he teaches future salespeople that selling is less about pushing a product and more about understanding people, building trust, and learning how to keep going when things do not work the first time.

This conversation breaks down three things every student needs to understand about professional selling: the reality of sales, the human side of selling, and how professors can build those lessons into a sales curriculum.

Why the First No Is Where Selling Begins

• A “no” does not always mean the buyer does not want what you are selling. It may mean they need more information, need something explained differently, or have not yet seen enough value in the offer.
• The example of Aaron Judge puts rejection into perspective. Even the leading hitters fail more often than they succeed, which means salespeople need to understand that setbacks are part of the work rather than proof that they are bad at selling.
• The real job is to make a compelling case for how the product or service can add value to the buyer’s business. That requires understanding the buyer’s needs instead of simply repeating what is in the sales presentation.
• This mindset also changes how students approach objections. The goal is not to avoid hearing “no.” It is to learn how to ask better questions, find the real issue, and keep the conversation moving.

Why Follow-Up Is a Sales Skill

• Many salespeople give up long before the buyer is ready to make a decision. The sales follow-up numbers discussed in this episode show a huge gap between how often salespeople contact prospects and where many sales actually happen.
• The lesson is bigger than sending more emails. Consistent follow-up is about building a relationship and earning enough trust for the prospect to keep the conversation going.
• Students also need to learn how to follow up without becoming repetitive. The focus should be on staying useful, understanding the prospect, and giving the relationship a reason to continue.
• The same idea applies beyond sales. Building relationships takes time, and strong salespeople learn how to stay connected instead of disappearing after the first few attempts.

Why Sales Is a Human Skill

• Selling cannot be reduced to automation, AI, scripts, or techniques for getting people to buy. The strongest examples in this episode point back to something much simpler: human connection.
• One classroom exercise makes that lesson practical. Students are asked to perform at least 75 minutes of service, from helping someone with a resume to cleaning up around campus. The goal is to get them thinking about someone other than themselves.
• Handwritten thank-you notes are another part of the lesson. Students write a personal note to someone who has made a difference in their lives, creating a direct experience of what genuine connection can look like.
• The lesson from Joe Girard takes this even further. His sales success was tied closely to the relationships he built with customers and prospects, including the handwritten cards he sent to stay connected.

Why Your Story Can Matter More Than Your Resume

• Salespeople often focus on their experience, achievements, and qualifications when trying to build credibility. But a personal story can create a stronger connection because it gives people something they can relate to.
• The stories shared in this episode show why setbacks matter. Sales success at Procter & Gamble, Keurig, and Anheuser-Busch often came from dealing with problems, overcoming objections, and continuing after things went wrong.
• That same lesson applies to students. A career is rarely a straight line, and future salespeople need to learn how to handle rejection, failure, and unexpected turns without letting them define what happens next.
• Storytelling also helps people connect beyond the transaction. The right story can make a customer, prospect, student, or colleague see the person behind the title.

How Professors Can Teach Sales Beyond the Textbook

• Teaching sales is different from simply working in sales. Professors have to help students apply ideas in real situations, especially when many students are dealing with constant pressure from social media, technology, and other distractions.
• Real-life examples can make those lessons easier to understand. Live case studies, business owners, coaches, and other people who have faced setbacks can show students what professional selling actually looks like outside the classroom.
• Students also need room to learn in ways that match who they are. The discussion around introverts challenges the idea that every student needs to learn or participate in exactly the same way.
• The goal is to give students practical experiences that help them discover their strengths. Sometimes that means stepping into unfamiliar places, trying new things, and giving their interests a chance to develop.

What Keurig Teaches About Selling Value

• The Keurig story shows how changing the way a product is positioned can change how customers see its value. Instead of presenting it simply as a more expensive coffee system, the team positioned it around employee benefits.
• Variety, freshness, convenience, no waste, no cleanup, and less hassle gave buyers reasons to look beyond the higher price.
• That is a useful lesson for sales students: customers do not always buy the product itself. They buy the value they believe the product will create for them.
• The same principle applies to almost any sale. Find the need that matters, show how the offer solves it, and make the value clear.

Why You Should Never Try to Build a Career Alone

• The episode challenges the idea of the “self-made” salesperson. Growth often comes from people who teach, challenge, mentor, and support you along the way.
• Mentors played an important role throughout the guest’s career, from early lessons in school to leaders and coaches who continued to provide inspiration later in life.
• The same principle applies to students and new salespeople. Finding people who can guide you and hold you accountable can make it easier to keep moving when the path gets difficult.
• The final lesson is about action. Set a goal, find people who can help you reach it, pay attention to your relationships, and do the work required to make it happen.

“When the buyer says no, that's when the sale begins.” — Chris Stevens

Resources

• Five by Dan Zadra
• Susan Cain’s TED Talk, The Power of Introverts
• Simon Sinek’s TED Talk and Golden Circle
• Admiral William McRaven’s University of Texas commencement address
• Winner’s Dream by Bill McDermott

A sales pipeline with seven stages sounds thorough until a new rep is staring at it, unsure what to actually do next. This episode breaks down a framework used with an enterprise client that cuts the whole thing down to three buckets, changing how a new seller thinks about their entire pipeline.

• The framework came out of watching an enterprise sales team manage huge deals without a clear sense of where anything actually stood.
• Following CRM tasks day to day gives a rep a to-do list, not a real view of their pipeline or control over it.
• The traditional pipeline collapses into three buckets: create, advance, and close. Create covers deals that aren't real yet, advance is where most of the active work happens, and close is where a deal actually converts.

• This isn't a replacement for a professor's existing sales cycle or CRM stages. The full pipeline still exists underneath.
• The three buckets give a rep a mental model on top of that detail, so they always know where a deal sits without getting lost in every individual stage.
• In the advance bucket especially, every deal needs a valid next step. Without one, that deal isn't advancing. It's stalling.

• Give students a real-life scenario, like a prospect stalling during discovery, and have them work out their own strategy for moving that deal forward.
• Students then role-play their strategy with a classmate, practicing the same critical thinking a professional seller uses every day.
• The same exercise works for the close bucket too, using scenarios where a deal is nearly done but something unexpected threatens to derail it.

• BJ shared a story of a VP of sales who forecasted her pipeline within one percent accuracy, a level most sales leaders never come close to.
• That kind of accuracy comes from reps who deeply understand their own individual pipeline, not from a complicated system nobody fully tracks.
• Simplifying the framework for students isn't about dumbing it down. It's about giving them a structure they'll actually use once they're in a real sales role.

• Teach the full pipeline stages students will see in a real CRM, but also teach the conceptual version underneath it: the constant question of what needs to happen to move this deal forward.
• This is the exact thinking a new rep will use with their own accounts, not just a classroom exercise.

"There's so much value in anything you can do to simplify the process for students." — Dr. BJ Allen

• Check out the courseware built with Stukent: Professional Selling and Advanced Selling and Sales Management
• Visit the Sales 101 podcast website for more episodes

What started with students bringing VHS tapes to class has now become AI-powered sales practice.

Mike Martin has been teaching sales for about 24 years, and he has watched technology change almost every part of how students practice. But the goal has stayed the same: give students a chance to practice sales conversations before they have to handle them with a real buyer.

In this episode, Mike shares how he moved from VHS-recorded role-plays to using ChatGPT for cold calls, objection handling, empathy practice, and more. He also explains why AI should support sales education without replacing the human interaction students still need.

• Mike started using recorded role-plays when students had to bring VHS tapes to class.
• Students recorded their sales conversations from a single camera view.
• Mike could review the recordings, while students could also watch themselves and learn from their performance.
• As recording technology changed, the process moved from VHS to digital.
• Generative AI has now created another way for students to practice sales conversations.

• Mike's main use of AI is giving students a chance to practice cold calls.
• Students prepare before starting the conversation:
• Choose a product or topic to sell.
• Define who they are and what they are selling.
• Build a value proposition.
• Identify three or four selling points.
• Prepare for likely objections and responses.
• Students use a shared AI prompt so the exercise is consistent across the class.
• The goal is to get a meeting or earn the opportunity to make a presentation, rather than close the sale.

• Mike can instruct the AI buyer to be more or less resistant.
• A more resistant buyer forces students to work harder during the conversation.
• In one exercise, students had to sell their degree to an AI buyer that was instructed to push back.
• The resistance made students work harder and gave them more practice handling difficult conversations.
• Students can also practice privately instead of making their first attempt in front of their classmates.

• Mike also connected AI role-play to research around empathy in sales.
• Students completed sales calls and then repeated the exercise using more empathetic language.
• This gave them a chance to compare their approaches and think about how they communicate with buyers.
• The exercise shows how AI can create repeated practice around specific sales skills.

• Not every student has the same access to sales or interview experience.
• Mike teaches students in Northwest Kansas, including students who may have fewer opportunities to practice professional conversations outside the classroom.
• AI gives students another way to practice regardless of their location.
• They can make mistakes, review what happened, and try again without needing another person available for every practice session.

• Mike does not see AI as a replacement for real sales conversations.
• Students still practice with other people in class.
• AI provides another practice environment, but students still need to learn how to respond to real people.
• Mike also stresses the importance of trust.
• Students can recognize when AI is being used poorly.
• They need to know the technology is helping them learn, not simply making the professor's work easier.

• Mike learned an important lesson when he first demonstrated the AI exercise himself.
• He had not prepared enough and found that the demonstration was harder than expected.
• His advice to other professors is simple: practice the assignment yourself before giving it to students.
• Test the prompts, work through the exercise, and make changes based on what happens.

Popular quote: “I think you definitely have to figure out where’s the best place and don’t become over-reliant on it.”

Every year, I hear from professors who've got students ready to compete and no way to get them there. Dr. Scott Hachey stopped waiting on a bigger budget and rebuilt the competition itself, and now schools that never had a shot at this are showing up to play.

Episode Breakdown

• Scott spent close to a decade in sales across agriculture, hospitality, and retail before finishing his PhD.
• Teaching a single sales course turned into a chance to bring that industry background straight into the classroom.
• He now teaches Professional Selling and Sales Management at Cal State Fullerton, and he's looking to grow the program from here.

• Scott didn't launch his virtual competition because of the pandemic. He built it in 2025 to fix a permanent problem.
• Travel and hosting costs shut a lot of students out before they even get a chance to compete, especially students working jobs while they're in school.
• With his department chair, dean, and outside sponsors behind him, the competition is heading into its third year this spring.

• In the weeks leading up to the event, students go through two to three online training sessions, with the sponsor joining to walk through the sales scenario.
• On competition day, each student gets their own time slot and a private Zoom link into a role-play room with a live buyer.
• About five judges watch each round with their cameras off, and students only interact with the buyer, never with the judges directly.

• The strongest response has come from schools with no dedicated sales program funding, often a single professor trying to give students real competition reps on their own.
• Scott connects it to his own career in agriculture sales, where he sold to buyers worldwide with no travel budget at all, phone and video selling weren't optional, they were the job.
• Even students used to in-person events have to relearn the basics on camera: checking the mic, confirming the camera's on, the small habits virtual selling demands.

• Scott doesn't dress up the rough patches. The first year included Zoom rooms shutting down mid-competition.
• He's upfront that virtual can't replace the hallway conversations and networking of an in-person event, and he still ranks in-person as the top-tier experience.
• Growing the format to more schools depends on university IT keeping pace, which rarely moves as fast as anyone teaching a live class would like.

• Scott is originally from Canada, and his love of hockey led him directly to the LA Kings, headquartered close to Fullerton.
• What started with the Kings' AHL affiliate, the Ontario Reign, grew into a full partnership with the NHL organization.

• Scott's advice to new sales professors: find others doing interesting work and reach out. He's found the sales education community quick to help.
• He's actively recruiting more schools, judges, and student teams for the next competition.

"We wanted to create a competition that would provide access to students who don't go to a school with a sales program." — Dr. Scott Hachey

• Connect with Dr. Scott Hachey on LinkedIn
• Learn more about the CSUF Sales Leadership Center and the Titan-Mania Virtual Sales Competition
• Interested in our courseware? Check out Professional Selling and Advanced Selling and Sales Management, built with Stukent
• Visit the Sales 101 podcast website for more episodes

show notes

Have you ever tried to create a courseware for a sales class and just felt like you had no clue what to do?

We've both been there.

Knowing sales is one thing. Taking years of experience with prospecting, discovery, objections, and closing and turning all of that into a course students can actually follow is a completely different challenge.

In this episode, Dr. BJ Allen and I sit down and work through the process together. We lay out four steps we would use to build a sales curriculum from the ground up, including some of the mistakes we've made along the way.

• You can’t teach everything about sales in one classroom. The first step is deciding what job you’re actually preparing your students to do.
• A course designed for BDRs and SDRs will need a different focus from one designed for account managers or sales executives.
• BJ explains how this decision helps professors narrow down their content instead of trying to fit years of sales experience into one semester.
• The goal isn’t to give students everything. It’s to give them enough to confidently take the next step.

• A strong sales curriculum needs a foundation that gives students a clear path from one stage of the sales process to the next.
• Donald compares this foundation to the base of a barbecue sauce: once you have it, you can build everything else around it.
• The curriculum we built follows the sales pipeline, moving students from prospecting to discovery and through the rest of the sales process.
• BJ explains why taking pieces from different methodologies can create confusion when students don't understand how those pieces fit together.
• Sandler, MEDDIC, Challenger, and SPIN are discussed as examples of different approaches professors may use when building their foundation.

• Sales is an applied discipline, so students need opportunities to practice what they learn instead of simply memorizing terminology.
• Guest speakers can bring industry experience into the classroom and give students another perspective on the concepts being taught.
• Role plays and case studies give students a chance to practice skills like prospecting, researching prospects, and handling real sales situations.
• One assignment used Apollo and LinkedIn to have students research companies, identify potential contacts, and create outreach sequences.
• One student used the assignment to reach out to someone in the industry and ultimately landed an internship.

• Practical assignments can give students experience with the same tools and activities they'll encounter in an actual sales role.
• BJ shares an example that combines ICP research, prospect research, LinkedIn research, and video email into one assignment.
• Instead of treating each skill as a separate lesson, students have to connect the pieces and use them together.
• The approach also makes it easier for professors to see whether students understand the full sales process rather than just individual concepts.
• Even professors with limited resources can create meaningful practice through simple role plays, peer feedback, and real-world scenarios.

• One of the mistakes new professors can make is creating assignments that are valuable for students but nearly impossible to grade efficiently.
• Clear grading criteria give students a better understanding of what they're expected to deliver and make the evaluation process more objective.
• The episode covers ways to build efficiency into grading, including teaching assistants, simulations, and assignments that test several skills at once.
• BJ also explains why professors need to think about the time required to grade an assignment before assigning it to an entire class.

• Step 1: Identify the job you're preparing students for.
• Step 2: Choose the foundation or sales process you'll build the curriculum around.
• Step 3: Bring real-world sales into the classroom through guest speakers, role plays, case studies, and practical tools.
• Step 4: Create assignments and grading systems that work for both students and professors.

“They just need enough to get to the next step.” — Donald C. Kelly

We also talk about the sales courseware we built, including digital videos and a simulation that gives students a chance to practice the sales process while making grading more manageable.

If you're building a sales curriculum from scratch or trying to make an existing course more practical, listen to the full episode.

• Connect with Patrick Carter on LinkedIn
• Interested in our courseware? Check out Professional Selling and Advanced Selling and Sales Management, built with Stukent
• Visit the Sales 101 podcast website for more episodes

Have you ever reached the middle of a sales call and realized you spent most of the meeting just trying to figure out what the buyer actually wanted?

If the buyer isn't clear on why they're there, or the salesperson doesn't take control of the conversation, valuable time can disappear fast. And on a cold call, you may not even get enough time for a second sentence.

In this episode, Dr. BJ Allen and I break down how to open discovery calls and prospecting calls with more clarity and relevance.

We talk about setting the agenda, getting buyers prepared before the meeting, using trigger events to make cold calls more personal, and when social proof can actually help.

Starting Discovery Calls With a Clear Agenda

• A discovery call should not take five or ten minutes just to figure out why everyone is there. The buyer should know the purpose of the meeting before it starts.
• A simple agenda can set the tone: why we're meeting, what we'll cover, and what we want to accomplish by the end.
• Asking the buyer if the agenda sounds right gives them ownership of the conversation instead of making them feel like they're there to be talked at.
• Coming prepared also gives you more time to focus on the customer's actual problem instead of explaining everything about yourself.

Making the Buyer Part of the Conversation

• Sending useful information before the call can help the buyer come prepared instead of expecting the salesperson to explain everything from scratch.
• A short self-serve demo can cover basic product information before the meeting, leaving more time to focus on the customer's specific use case.
• The goal is to make the conversation feel tailored to the buyer rather than like another standard sales presentation.
• Most importantly, the call should end with clarity about what happens next so neither side is left wondering where things stand.

Using Trigger Events to Open Cold Calls

• A cold call becomes much stronger when there is a real reason for making it. A new sales leader, company expansion, acquisition, or new product launch can all create an opening.
• The trigger is only useful when it connects to a problem that person is likely dealing with.
• Instead of asking for ten seconds and launching into a pitch, lead with something that shows you understand what is happening in their world.
• That relevance can turn a cold call from a fishing expedition into a conversation worth having.

When Social Proof Actually Works

• Social proof isn't automatically a good opener. The real question is whether the example is relevant to the person you're calling.
• A competitor's success can create that relevance and even introduce a sense of FOMO when the prospect is facing the same market pressure.
• AI can help sellers research competitors, case studies, testimonials, and other signals that reveal what matters to a prospect before making the call.
• The goal isn't to use AI to blast out another generic message. It's to use research to sound like someone who understands the customer's problem.

“Use it to be able to make you sound as a consultant and as someone in tune with their problem.” — Donald C. Kelly

Resources

If you're looking for sales courseware with an up-to-date textbook and an AI-based simulation, visit The Sales Evangelist.

You believe your students need a sales program. Your dean needs a different reason to say yes.

That's the gap we dug into with Dr. Travis Simkins, Department Chair of Marketing, Entrepreneurship, Sales & Analytics at Southern Utah University.

Travis took his department from two and a half faculty members to sixteen in under three years, and he walked us through exactly how he got administration to say yes to a new sales major.

Why SUU Built a Sales Program

• Travis explains how marketing at SUU used to be folded into other departments, with almost no dedicated faculty.
• He read an article from the B2B Institute that changed his thinking. It argued the next hundred years of marketing would be built on B2B, not B2C.
• That idea became the pitch he used to convince the university to give marketing its own home.

Turning a Minor Into the Fastest-Growing Program on Campus

• Travis walks through how the Mesa department combined marketing, entrepreneurship, sales, and analytics under one roof.
• He shares how COVID actually helped the case for a sales major, because it proved marketing and sales careers could work remotely and pay well.
• Within three years, the department grew from two and a half faculty members to sixteen.

How to Sell a New Major to Administration

• Travis breaks down the two things that move a department chair or provost: hard numbers and education.
• He talks about showing administrators real job listings and real starting salaries, not just enthusiasm.
• We also talk about how sales skills transfer across industries once a student learns the fundamentals.

Building a Pipeline of Students

• Travis explains how paid student "sales ambassadors" recruit other students into the major.
• He shares how SUU built concurrent enrollment agreements with local high schools, so students can earn college sales credit before they graduate.
• These recruiting efforts are what took the minor from 50 students to 75, and kept it growing.

Bringing Industry Partners Into the Classroom

• Travis describes the sales advisory board SUU built, made up of paying industry professionals who help shape the curriculum.
• He talks about "Sales Never Fails," a campus competition that gets local and regional companies involved as judges and sponsors.
• He also shares why SUU built a sales psychology course after watching a talented graduate burn out within a year.

Managing the Space Between Faculty and Administration

• Travis reflects on the hardest part of being a department chair: balancing what faculty need with what administration wants.
• His advice for professors pitching a new program: bring data, bring a plan for measuring success, and make the case in terms your dean already cares about.

"The nice thing about sales is you can learn to be a better salesperson. Once you learn how to be a good salesperson, you can sell anything in any industry if you're trained on the specific knowledge." — Dr. Travis Simkins

Resources

• Learn more about the Marketing, Entrepreneurship, Sales & Analytics Department at Southern Utah University
• Connect with Dr. Travis Simkins or find him on LinkedIn
• Explore the courseware Donald and BJ co-authored: Professional Selling and Advanced Selling and Sales Management
• Visit the Sales 101 podcast website for more episodes

show notes

What’s the real difference between B2C and B2B sales? Do students need to go into B2B to build a successful career? And are we teaching the right principles for both?

These are the kinds of questions sales professors face in the classroom, especially when many students start their careers in B2C roles.

We invited Patrick Carter, a retail sales leader, to break it down. He shares how he’s building and leading successful B2C sales teams and what professors should be preparing students for in today’s sales environment.

Meet Patrick Carter

• Patrick Carter is a sales leader and enablement strategist with over 20 years of experience building high-performing retail sales teams and driving revenue growth. He focuses on creating the systems, playbooks, and coaching structures that help sales organizations scale.
• He’s known for a coaching-first leadership style that builds trust, improves individual performance, and creates a culture where accountability and growth go hand in hand.
• Patrick operates at both the strategic and day-to-day level, developing the vision while staying close enough to execution to know when to step in and when to let his team take the lead.

B2B vs B2C: What’s the Real Difference?

• At its core, retail is business to consumers. You’re selling directly to the end user. Sounds simple, but it’s not.
• The biggest difference comes down to speed. In B2B, you might have weeks or months to build relationships. In retail, you may have minutes. Customers often walk in knowing exactly what they want, which means the real skill is how you respond in that moment.

You’re Not Just an Order Taker

• Patrick makes one thing clear. The website already has the information. Your role is to bring knowledge.
• That means asking better questions, understanding what the customer actually needs, and guiding them beyond what they came in for.
• Anyone can process a transaction. A real salesperson builds trust fast and adds value early.

Where the Real Money Happens

• Retail sales can be more lucrative than most people think. With the right skillset and experience, income can grow significantly over time.
• But it’s not just about the first sale. It’s about relationships. When customers trust you, they come back. They bring others. And that’s where long-term success is built.
• If you’re teaching sales, this episode may challenge how you think about preparing students for the real world.

“Your job isn’t to sell products. Your job is to bring knowledge. The website already has the information.” — Patrick Carter

Resources

Want to learn more about B2C sales and how to apply it in your classroom or career? Connect with Patrick Carter on LinkedIn and follow his insights.

Connect with Dr. BJ Allen and Donald C. Kelly on LinkedIn to chat about this episode or ask any questions.

I’m sure you’ve realized by now that the real sales world and classroom sales are nowhere near the same. So, how can you help your students bridge that gap and prepare them to succeed in the field? To help answer this, we invited Kim Ruggerio, sales professor at Arizona State University (ASU). She’s here to share insights on transforming sales education and better equipping your students for the real world.

Meet Kim Ruggerio

• Kim Ruggerio is a trailblazer in sales education with over four decades of experience at industry leaders like AT&T and Verizon.
• After a successful corporate career, she brought her expertise to academia and launched Arizona State University’s first professional sales class nearly 18 years ago.
• Known for her dynamic, student-focused teaching style, Kim emphasizes confidence, creative outreach, and practical skills while encouraging students to engage with industry professionals and build valuable connections.

Building a Practical Sales Curriculum (00:02:23 - 00:03:40)

• Kim highlights the importance of bringing real-world experience into the classroom, creating a course that students consistently value for its practical approach.

Overcoming Self-Doubt and Building Confidence (00:03:41 - 00:05:35)

• She addresses common “sales reluctance” and structures her teams so students gain confidence early by reaching out to senior executives for interviews.

The Team Interview Project (00:05:35 - 00:07:12)

• Students work in groups to secure and interview senior sales leaders, while Kim guides them to ask creative, meaningful questions that go beyond the basics.

Breaking Sales Stereotypes and Facing Challenges (00:07:15 - 00:10:00)

• She discusses how these projects shift students’ perceptions of sales and helps them overcome confidence and outreach anxiety to be ready for real-world selling.

Success Stories: Unique Interview Wins (00:10:07 - 00:12:56)

• Kim shares standout student achievements, including interviews and live performances with executives at major companies, some leading directly to job offers.

The Power of Creative Outreach (00:12:56 - 00:15:12)

• She emphasizes research, personalization, and preparation, showing how thoughtful outreach leads to stronger connections and real opportunities.

Research Techniques for Reaching Executives (00:15:13 - 00:17:24)

• Kim explains how students can use LinkedIn, company resources, and in-depth questions to go beyond information easily found online.

Involving Industry Leaders in the Classroom (00:17:26 - 00:22:12)

• She highlights the value of advisory boards and guest speakers in providing mentorship, networking, and job opportunities for students.

Preparing Students for Real-World Sales Careers (00:22:13 - 00:26:02)

• Kim shares examples of how her outcomes-focused approach results in career opportunities and executive-level connections for students.

Key Lesson: Don’t Be Afraid to Aim Higher (00:24:02 - 00:26:07)

• She recounts a student’s interaction with a sales VP who encouraged them to reach out directly to the CEO, reinforcing the importance of aiming higher in professional ambitions.

“If you’re not prepared to have a proper conversation with a client, you’re doing both yourself and your customer a disservice.” – Kim Ruggerio

Resources

Reach out to Kim Ruggerio on LinkedIn, or send her an email at kim.ruggerio@asu.edu.

In this video, we sit down with Rich Kuzmeski to discuss his passion for sales and teaching. As a seasoned sales professional, Rich shares insights from his extensive experience in the field, offering valuable perspectives on how to sell effectively. This discussion is a must-watch for anyone interested in a sales career, providing foundational knowledge for sales success.

We delve into how educators can actively prepare students for real-world sales challenges, moving beyond rote memorization and final exams. Rich Kuzmeki shares invaluable insights into experiential learning strategies that facilitate student success, enhancing both confidence and competency in the field of sales.

Creating Engaging Role Plays for Practical Learning

1. Role plays designed to mirror real-life scenarios empower students to create their own scripts, fostering ownership and individual learning.

2. Students research various industries thoroughly, refining their understanding and relevant questioning techniques necessary for success in sales.

3. Structured role plays focus on the discovery call process, allowing students to practice asking impactful questions rather than simply pitching a product.

The Importance of Listening and Discovery in Sales

1. Students often struggle with the fear of silence during sales calls, making it crucial to build their comfort with open-ended questioning and attentive listening.

2. Emphasizing a 70/30 listening-to-talking ratio teaches students that effective selling is rooted in understanding customer needs rather than just presenting.

3. By structuring prompts to encourage follow-up questions, students learn to drive conversations deeper, uncovering critical insights necessary for making meaningful connections.

Extending Learning Beyond the Classroom

1. Participation in internal and external sales competitions provides students with hands-on experiences that translate classroom knowledge into actionable skills in real-world situations.

2. Establishing connections with industry representatives and creating opportunities for networking prepares students for internships and jobs after graduation.

3. Achievements in competitions bolster student resumes while enhancing the overall credibility of the sales program, attracting more prospective students and professionals to engage.

Homework Challenge or Action Steps

1. Challenge students to design their own sales role play based on a chosen industry, incorporating both questions and anticipated answers to practice smooth dialogue.

2. Encourage educators to implement experiential learning techniques, such as guest speakers and live events, to enrich the educational experience beyond textbooks.

"Be honest. It's way easier to remember the truth than it is to remember what you may or may not have made up." -Rich Kuzmeki.

Timestamps

00:00 - Introduction

01:20 - The Role of Role Plays in Sales Education

12:15 - Overcoming Challenges in Role Plays

22:30 - Extending Learning Through Competitions

34:40 - Closing Thoughts and Key Takeaways

Resources

● [Oklahoma State University Sales Center](https://business.okstate.edu/sales)

● [Sales Competitions Overview](https://business.okstate.edu/sales/competitions)

Subscribe to our SubStack for more sales insights and assignments - https://sales101b2bsalesclassroom.substack.com/

Credits

Produced by bluëmango | STUDIOS. Music by SoundStripe. Thanks for tuning in!

show notes

show notes

Sales is not just about closing deals. At its core, it is about building genuine connections and lasting relationships. Joining us is Tammy Katuin, a sales professor at Valley City State University, to share how she is helping students develop networking skills, build authentic relationships, and create a strong foundation for long-term success in sales.

Meet Tammy Katuin

• Tammy Katuin is an educator and sales professional at Valley City State University, where she teaches sales and consumer behavior with a focus on relationship building and authenticity.
• Drawing from her extensive sales experience, she helps students understand that lasting success comes from serving others and building genuine connections rather than simply closing deals.
• Through hands-on networking opportunities, mentorship, and career development tools like LinkedIn, Tammy is dedicated to preparing students for meaningful and successful careers.

Why Relationships Matter in Sales

• Tammy shares why the most effective sales professionals focus on helping people rather than simply closing deals, creating trust that extends far beyond a single transaction.
• She explains how genuine care and consistent follow-through are what separate great salespeople from the rest.

Teaching Trust and Authenticity

• One aspect students often struggle with is building trust. Tammy discusses how she helps students develop confidence through networking opportunities, hands-on experiences, and meaningful conversations that push them outside their comfort zones.
• By modeling authenticity and investing in her students' success, she demonstrates the type of relationship-focused approach that leads to lasting professional growth.

Balancing Technology and Human Connection

• Technology continues to change the sales landscape, but the importance of human connection remains constant.
• The discussion explores how tools like AI and LinkedIn can support relationship-building efforts while reinforcing that trust, authenticity, and genuine engagement cannot be automated.
• Success comes from using technology to strengthen connections, not replace them.

The Foundation of Lasting Success

• Trust is the foundation of every successful relationship. Whether working with clients, colleagues, or future employers, being reliable, open-minded, and genuinely invested in others creates opportunities that extend far beyond a single sale. The result is a sales approach built on connection, credibility, and long-term success.

"If you are in it for the long haul, then relationships are what you need to make so that you can get ongoing business from your clients, not just that one off." - Tammy Katuin

Resources

• Professors interested in curriculum, simulations, lesson plans, and sales education tools can explore Stukent Sales Courseware.
• If you’re interested in learning from Tammy Katuin you can find her on LinkedIn.

How can you get companies genuinely excited about partnering with your sales program? Rob Hammond, Director of the Center for Marketing and Sales Innovation at the University of South Florida, joins us to share how he builds meaningful partnerships between universities and businesses. Instead of treating companies as sponsors or one-time recruiters, he encourages educators to see them as long-term partners who actively contribute to student growth, workforce readiness, and lasting industry impact.

Meet Rob Hammond

• Rob Hammond leads the University of South Florida sales program as Director of the Sales and Marketing Innovation Center.
• After a long career in industry, he brings a practical, product focused approach to sales education. He builds experiential learning opportunities, including top college sales competitions and strong business partnerships.
• His philosophy centers on real world connections between students and companies, helping students gain experience while organizations build lasting relationships and brands through meaningful campus engagement.

Start with Your Value Proposition

• A key idea from this conversation is the importance of clearly defining the value of your program.
• Rob explains that students are the product, and employers are looking for graduates who can contribute from day one.
• When you communicate that value effectively, it becomes much easier to attract business partners who want to engage with your program.

Create Opportunities for Connection

• Rob also shares practical ways to connect students with employers through networking events, classroom visits, internships, sales competitions, and company site visits.
• These experiences allow students to apply what they learn in the classroom while helping employers build relationships with future talent.
• He refers to these interactions as “micro-collisions” that often lead to meaningful opportunities for both students and companies.

Focus on Partnerships, Not Transactions

• Rob reminds us that successful programs are built on partnerships, not hiring quotas.
• Instead of focusing on how many students companies hire, the emphasis should be on helping organizations build their brand on campus and form genuine connections with students who are interested in their mission.

“You have a high-quality product. Be unapologetic about it.” — Rob Hammond

Resources

• Professors interested in curriculum, simulations, lesson plans, and sales education tools can explore Stukent Sales Courseware.

Connect with Rob Hammond on LinkedIn to follow his work in sales education and university–industry partnerships, or reach out directly via email at rwhammond@usf.edu.

What if success in sales starts long before your first prospect call? Before mastering sales techniques, Cheryl Parks believes professionals must first understand who they are. She joins us to explore how self-awareness, personal strengths, and identity influence long-term success in sales.

Meet Cheryl Parks

• Cheryl Parks is a revenue growth advisor, sales leader, and strategic operator who helps founders, executives, and sales teams navigate growth with greater clarity, confidence, and execution. With more than 30 years of experience in B2B enterprise sales, she has sold over $25 million into Fortune 1000 organizations and coached leaders to achieve multi-million-dollar outcomes.
• Known for her journey from "the shyest girl in the room" to trusted advisor, Cheryl brings a practical, human-centered approach to sales and leadership. She helps organizations identify revenue opportunities, align teams, improve decision-making, and build scalable sales systems without sacrificing trust or connection.
• As Chief Revenue Officer at Digital Factory and founder of The Sales Growth Advisor, Cheryl works at the intersection of revenue strategy, leadership alignment, and AI-powered business transformation. She views AI as a tool that enhances human judgment, focus, and performance rather than replacing authentic leadership.
• Today, Cheryl speaks on sales, leadership, AI adoption, and revenue growth, helping professionals build sustainable, high-trust approaches to success in a rapidly changing business landscape.

Sales Success Starts with Self-Awareness

• Cheryl shares practical ways students and new sales professionals can identify their strengths, personality traits, and selling style. From relationship-focused sellers to transactional sales experts, she explains why there is no single path to success in sales.
• We also explored how tools such as CliftonStrengths, DISC, Enneagram, Myers-Briggs, and even AI can help individuals better understand where they fit within the sales profession.

Developing the Seller You Want to Become

• One of Cheryl's most powerful messages is the importance of intentionally creating your future identity. Instead of "fake it until you make it," she advocates for acting like the person you aspire to become while remaining authentic.
• She also discusses the value of mentors, personal mantras, continuous learning, and surrounding yourself with positive influences that support your growth.

Navigating Setbacks and Growth

• Sales careers come with challenges, rejection, and periods of self-doubt. Cheryl offers practical advice for evaluating setbacks, assessing your skills and motivation, and identifying when it's time to pivot, improve, or set new goals.

"Sales completely changed my life, literally. It helped me move forward and grow." — Cheryl Parks

Resources

• Professors interested in curriculum, simulations, lesson plans, and sales education tools can explore Stukent Sales Courseware.

Interested in developing your sales skills or growing your business? Reach out to Cheryl Parks and connect with her on LinkedIn for practical advice on sales, leadership, and personal growth.

Salesforce found that 80% of customers feel salespeople don’t bring enough value to the buying process. At the same time, most sellers think the deal keeps moving forward once the discovery call ends.

What many fail to realize is that the real conversations are often happening behind the scenes. That’s why Dr. BJ Allen and I are breaking down the concept of the “shadow discovery” and how professors can better prepare students for the realities of modern enterprise selling.

The Reality of Modern Buying Committees

• Enterprise selling has become far more complex than it used to be. Buying committees now often involve 8 to 11 stakeholders, and not every influential voice is officially part of the decision-making team.
• We also explain how buyers are doing more independent research before ever speaking with salespeople. Between AI tools, online reviews, and peer recommendations, many prospects already have strong opinions before the first sales conversation even happens.

What Is A Shadow Discovery?

• A shadow discovery is the internal conversation prospects have when the salesperson is no longer in the room.
• These conversations can happen in meetings, Slack messages, Teams chats, or side conversations between executives after a discovery call. One negative opinion or unanswered concern during those moments can quickly stall a deal.
• Dr. Allen explains why students need to understand that selling is no longer just about the conversation happening directly with the prospect. It’s also about preparing for the conversations happening behind closed doors.

How To Better Prepare Students For Enterprise Selling

• We also share strategies professors can teach students to help them navigate modern buying committees more effectively.
• This includes identifying true internal champions, creating tailored content for different stakeholders, using business acumen to align with executive priorities, and helping champions confidently communicate value internally.
• Role plays and real-world sales scenarios can also help students better understand how multi-threading and internal selling actually work during complex deals.

“Shadow discoveries are happening. It's a constant piece of the conversation and we need to make sure we're ready for it.” — Donald C. Kelly

“Shadow discoveries influence purchasing decisions, and they’re problematic because the salesperson isn’t there.” — Dr. BJ Allen

Resources

Connect with Dr. BJ Allen and Donald C. Kelly on LinkedIn to continue the conversation or share how you're applying these strategies in your classroom.

What actually makes a sales class effective? Is it the lectures, the role plays, the assignments, or the real-world experience students walk away with?

We’re breaking down how sales professors can better prepare for the next semester by creating a more practical and engaging learning experience for students. We also share how professors can better understand which lessons actually prepare students for real sales roles.

Why Student Feedback Matters More Than You Think

• One strategy you can try is giving students an assignment at the end of every semester where they explain the four most important things they learned in class and how they plan to apply those lessons in their careers.
• That feedback can help identify which concepts students actually find useful in the real world and which topics may need to be adjusted or removed.
• Dr. Allen also shares how often students mentioned time management and planning as lessons that had a major impact on them.
• While it may not seem like the most exciting topic, students repeatedly shared how helpful those planning strategies became in preparing them for real sales roles.

Building a More Practical Sales Classroom

• We also share some of the challenges professors face when trying to balance academic concepts with practical sales training.
• Using role plays, prospecting exercises, and LinkedIn outreach activities can give students hands-on experience and help them better understand how sales actually works outside the classroom.
• Creating an effective sales class also means reducing the workload for professors while still giving students a personalized learning experience.
• Lesson plans, activity banks, simulations, grading tools, and role play exercises can make a major difference for professors teaching sales for the first time.

How AI Is Changing Sales Education

• Dr. Allen explains how AI role play tools now allow students to practice discovery calls, receive instant feedback, and improve their skills in a low-pressure environment.
• Instead of relying only on live role plays or manual grading, AI simulations can create more consistency, repetition, and flexibility for both students and professors.

“There’s nothing like having students tell you what they actually found useful for their career.” — Dr. BJ Allen

“Hands-on activities help students better understand how sales actually works outside the classroom.” — Donald C. Kelly

Resources

• Professors interested in curriculum, simulations, lesson plans, and sales education tools can explore Stukent Sales Courseware.
• Interested in bringing AI role plays and sales simulations into your classroom? Try Copient AI.
• For additional sales education content, listen to The Sales Evangelist.

Connect with Dr. BJ Allen and Donald C. Kelly on LinkedIn to continue the conversation or share how you're applying these strategies in your classroom.

How do you teach students to actually use AI effectively instead of just relying on random tools and prompts? We invited Cherilynn Castleman, a sales consultant and professor at Harvard University, to discuss how AI is reshaping sales education. She explains why professors should focus less on specific platforms and more on helping students develop true AI fluency.

Meet Cherilynn Castleman

• Cherilynn Castleman is a sales consultant, AI strategist, and professor at Harvard University, where she teaches courses focused on AI adoption and AI fluency in sales.
• She helps sales professionals and organizations understand how to integrate AI into modern sales workflows while still building authentic human connection.
• Through her teaching, consulting, and content, Cherilynn focuses on helping people move beyond simply using AI tools and instead develop the confidence and clarity needed to succeed in an AI-driven sales environment.

Why AI Fluency Matters More Than Learning Tools

• One of the biggest points Cherilynn shares is how quickly AI tools are changing. She explains that between 50 to 100 new AI sales tools are entering the market every single week. That means professors cannot realistically keep up by teaching tools alone.
• Instead, students need to understand how to think with AI, communicate with it effectively, and integrate it into their sales workflow.
• Cherilynn compares AI fluency to learning a second language. At first, it feels uncomfortable, but over time students develop confidence and clarity in how to use it naturally.

Why Companies Are Struggling With AI

• Even though companies are heavily investing in AI, many are still not seeing results.
• Cherilynn shares that global AI spending is projected to reach $2.5 trillion in 2026, growing 44% year over year. Yet according to MIT research, 95% of organizations report seeing little to no ROI from their AI implementation.
• The reason? Most companies are focused on tools instead of teaching people how to actually use AI strategically.

How AI Can Make Students Better Sellers

• One of the most interesting parts of the conversation focused on how AI can help students become stronger communicators and better sales professionals.
• Cherilynn explains how students can use AI to:
• personalize outreach faster
• improve discovery questions
• research prospects and industries
• create stronger points of view
• identify weaknesses in their sales process
• Instead of replacing sellers, AI helps elevate them.

Teaching Students to Build Better Buyer Relationships

• Cherilynn also shares how AI can help students create stronger emotional connections with buyers by improving the quality of their discovery questions.
• She explains that 87% of B2B buyers want sales professionals to show up as trusted advisors.
• AI can help students prepare better questions, understand customer challenges, and communicate more strategically during conversations.

“AI can help you build trust by improving the questions you ask and strengthening your connection with buyers. Develop a POV because your point of view is how you show up.” — Cherilynn Castleman

Resources

Want to learn more about AI fluency and the future of sales education? Connect with Cherilynn Castleman on LinkedIn and follow her insights on how AI is reshaping the way sales professionals learn, sell, and build stronger customer relationships.

Connect with Dr. BJ Allen and Donald C. Kelly on LinkedIn to continue the conversation or share how you're applying these strategies in your classroom.

Over the last few years, AI has made its way into everything. So how do you actually bring it into your sales classroom in a way that prepares students for the real world? We partnered with Stukent to show you how to use it for roleplay in the classroom.

Why AI Is Changing Sales Education

• AI is not just a trend. It is already shaping how sales professionals work every day. The challenge for professors is figuring out how to bring that into the classroom in a way that feels practical and relevant.
• This is where AI roleplay comes in. Instead of relying only on student to student practice, professors can now create more realistic selling environments.

Making Roleplay Feel Real

• One of the biggest challenges in teaching sales is making roleplay feel authentic. Students know when it is just practice.
• With AI, that changes. The buyer responds in real time, asks questions, and even pushes back like a real prospect would.
• That means students are not just memorizing scripts. They are learning how to think, adapt, and respond in the moment.

Better Experience for Students and Professors

• AI roleplay does not just help students. It also makes things easier for professors.
• Instead of reviewing every interaction, AI can handle feedback and evaluation, reducing workload while still giving students a high quality experience.
• It also removes bias and creates a more consistent learning environment.

Preparing Students for the Real World

• The goal is simple. Help students feel what real selling is like before they step into their first role.
• With AI, you can adjust difficulty levels, simulate different buyer personalities, and create scenarios that reflect real sales conversations.

“One of the best things about AI roleplay is you can adjust the difficulty. For beginners, it can be simple, but at advanced levels, it feels real. I’ve seen it hang up on students within 20 seconds, just like real life.” — Dr. BJ Allen

Resources

Connect with Dr. BJ Allen and Donald C. Kelly on LinkedIn to continue the conversation or share how you're applying these strategies in your classroom.

Learn how you can bring AI into your classroom and more about Stukent here.

Buyers are making decisions before they ever talk to a seller. If your students are not part of that process, they are already out of the running. How do you teach them to become the go-to seller in today’s buyer journey? We’re breaking down three strategies to help them stand out and stay top of mind.

The Modern Sales Problem

• Thanks to technology, buyers now have a world of information at their fingertips. They are researching solutions, comparing options, and forming opinions long before they ever speak to a seller.
• By the time a conversation happens, many have already made internal decisions or narrowed their shortlist. If your students are not part of that early research phase, they are already at a disadvantage.
• It gets even tougher with Requests for Proposals (RFPs). Many are built around the features of a preferred solution or based on templates from past vendors, which quietly limits opportunities for new sellers to compete.

Classroom Implementation Strategies

• So how do you actually prepare students for this shift? It starts with helping them show up earlier in the buyer’s journey.
• Build Subject Matter Expertise: Encourage students to use LinkedIn as more than a place for cold outreach. When they consistently share insights and engage with industry content, they start to build a presence. Over time, they become someone buyers recognize and trust before a conversation even happens.
• Bring the Buyer Into the Classroom: Let students hear directly from buyers. Invite guest speakers who can walk through how decisions are really made, who is involved, and what their research process looks like. It gives students a clearer picture of what is happening behind the scenes.
• Strengthen Discovery Skills: Teach students how to ask better questions during discovery. The goal is to understand what the buyer actually values and whether they have already been influenced by another solution. When students can uncover that early, they can position themselves more effectively without putting down the competition.

“In this era, it’s no longer about being the best. It’s about being the best known in your space.” — Donald C. Kelly

“It’s great for buyers to have context around what’s happening before they engage.” — Dr. BJ Allen

Resources

Connect with Dr. BJ Allen and Donald C. Kelly on LinkedIn to continue the conversation or share how you're applying these strategies in your classroom.

What’s the real difference between B2C and B2B sales? Do students need to go into B2B to build a successful career? And are we teaching the right principles for both?

These are the kinds of questions sales professors face in the classroom, especially when many students start their careers in B2C roles.

We invited Patrick Carter, a retail sales leader, to break it down. He shares how he’s building and leading successful B2C sales teams and what professors should be preparing students for in today’s sales environment.

Meet Patrick Carter

• Patrick Carter is a sales leader and enablement strategist with over 20 years of experience building high-performing retail sales teams and driving revenue growth. He focuses on creating the systems, playbooks, and coaching structures that help sales organizations scale.
• He’s known for a coaching-first leadership style that builds trust, improves individual performance, and creates a culture where accountability and growth go hand in hand.
• Patrick operates at both the strategic and day-to-day level, developing the vision while staying close enough to execution to know when to step in and when to let his team take the lead.

B2B vs B2C: What’s the Real Difference?

• At its core, retail is business to consumers. You’re selling directly to the end user. Sounds simple, but it’s not.
• The biggest difference comes down to speed. In B2B, you might have weeks or months to build relationships. In retail, you may have minutes. Customers often walk in knowing exactly what they want, which means the real skill is how you respond in that moment.

You’re Not Just an Order Taker

• Patrick makes one thing clear. The website already has the information. Your role is to bring knowledge.
• That means asking better questions, understanding what the customer actually needs, and guiding them beyond what they came in for.
• Anyone can process a transaction. A real salesperson builds trust fast and adds value early.

Where the Real Money Happens

• Retail sales can be more lucrative than most people think. With the right skillset and experience, income can grow significantly over time.
• But it’s not just about the first sale. It’s about relationships. When customers trust you, they come back. They bring others. And that’s where long-term success is built.
• If you’re teaching sales, this episode may challenge how you think about preparing students for the real world.

“Your job isn’t to sell products. Your job is to bring knowledge. The website already has the information.” — Patrick Carter

Resources

Want to learn more about B2C sales and how to apply it in your classroom or career? Connect with Patrick Carter on LinkedIn and follow his insights.

Connect with Dr. BJ Allen and Donald C. Kelly on LinkedIn to chat about this episode or ask any questions.

What does it take to turn classroom learning into real sales results? Joseph Wood shares how the BYU sales program helped launch his career at Gong.io, where he quickly moved from BDR to Account Executive. He shows how the right mix of education and experience can help you scale in B2B sales.

Meet Joseph Wood

• Joseph is a former Sales Society collegiate competition winner and President, now a full-time Account Executive at Gong.io and part-time founder.
• He enjoys training in Jiu Jitsu so he can continue defeating his five younger brothers in wrestling matches.
• Happily married and always ready to nerd out about business and entrepreneurship.

How Sales Education Builds Real Skills

• Joseph didn’t initially plan on a sales career. But once he was exposed to it, everything changed.
• Through role plays, practical exercises, and learning how to think persuasively, he developed skills that translated directly into the real world.
• Sales education gave him a strong foundation, but applying those skills in the workforce made the difference.

Why Sales Clubs and Competitions Matter

• The classroom introduced sales, but hands-on experience built confidence. Sales competitions and networking opportunities helped Joseph sharpen his skills and connect with companies.
• Winning early gave him proof that he could succeed, while consistent exposure helped him understand what a career in sales actually looks like.

Lessons Learned in the Real World

• Transitioning into a full-cycle sales role came with new challenges. Managing deals, identifying decision-makers, and controlling the sales process were skills developed on the job.
• Joseph talks about the importance of strong discovery and understanding every stakeholder involved in a deal.

The Mindset That Drives Long-Term Success

• Sales is a long-term game. Early in his career, fear of failure held him back.
• Now, he sees failure as part of growth. With the right skill set and persistence, opportunities will always follow.

“Realizing that sales is a marathon and not a sprint helped me see that it’s okay to fail and mess up because there will always be another opportunity. I used to be afraid of failure, but now I understand that with a strong skill set, you will always find a way to provide value.” - Joseph Wood

Resources

• Find Joseph Wood on LinkedIn to learn more about his journey into B2B sales.

Connect with Dr. BJ Allen and Donald C. Kelly on LinkedIn to chat about this episode or ask any questions.

There’s no way around using video to attract prospects today. But there’s a certain way you have to do it if you want to stand out.

We invited Charlie Crump, a BYU-Idaho sales professor and executive, to share how he’s teaching his students to use video to their advantage. He also shares LinkedIn tips and gives insight into his sales program.

Using Video to Stand Out

• Charlie explains, it’s not just about using video. It’s about how you use it. When you use it the right way it adds a personal touch that grabs prospect’s attention.
• Charlie walks through how students can use tools like video messaging to connect with prospects in a more direct way. Instead of sending long emails, they focus on short, clear messages that feel natural and personal.
• The goal is not perfection. It’s authenticity. Students are encouraged to keep it simple, stay real, and focus on delivering a clear message instead of overthinking the process.

Building a Personal Brand on LinkedIn

• Beyond video, Charlie emphasizes the importance of building a presence on LinkedIn.
• Students are required to post consistently, connect with others, and start building their network early.
• It’s not just about what you know anymore. It’s about how well people know you.
• Creating content and engaging with others helps students stand out when it’s time to look for opportunities.

Authenticity Is What Sets You Apart

• Sales is not about being pushy or transactional. It’s about building trust. You can build this trust all by being authentic.
• Charlie teaches his students that being honest, ethical, and focused on helping others will always lead to better long-term success.

“With AI, personalized messaging, and simulations that allow reps to practice over and over, we’re seeing a whole new level of mastery. It’s an exciting time to be in sales.” — Charlie Crump

Resources

• Would you like to test out your video message with Charlie Crump? Connect with him on LinkedIn or send him an email at crumpc@byui.edu.

Connect with Dr. BJ Allen and Donald C. Kelly on LinkedIn to chat about this episode or ask any questions.

Students are far better prepared when they get hands-on experience with sales tools before entering the workforce. Without it, building a pipeline can feel challenging. That’s why we’re encouraging you to bring LinkedIn Sales Navigator into the classroom and showing you how to introduce it in a practical way.

Why Sales Tools Matter More Than Ever

• Breaking through the noise in today’s sales world is not easy. Buyers are overwhelmed, competition is high, and traditional outreach is not as effective as it used to be.
• That is why tools like LinkedIn Sales Navigator have become essential for modern sales professionals.
• If you want to compete, you need to know how to find and connect with the right people.

What Sales Navigator Actually Does

• LinkedIn Sales Navigator is more than just LinkedIn. It is a tool designed to help you identify prospects, build targeted lists, and engage with the right individuals inside organizations.
• Instead of guessing who to reach out to, you can filter by role, company size, location, and even activity level. This allows you to move from random outreach to a more focused and strategic approach.

From Broad Lists to Qualified Prospects

• One of the biggest advantages of Sales Navigator is how it helps you narrow your focus.
• You can start with hundreds of companies, then filter down to decision makers who are new in their roles, active on LinkedIn, and aligned with your ideal customer profile.
• You can prioritize the people most likely to engage and take action.

Turning Insights Into Conversations

• Sales Navigator also gives you real time insights. You can see when prospects change jobs, post content, or engage on the platform.
• These moments create natural opportunities to start conversations and build relationships. It is not just about finding leads, it is about knowing when and how to engage.

Why This Belongs in the Classroom

• Sales today is not just about communication skills. It is about knowing how to use technology to work smarter, build pipelines, and drive results from day one. Learning this early can set your students apart immediately.

“Sales Navigator helps you move from guessing who to target to knowing exactly who to reach out to.” – Donald Kelly

“Students who understand the sales tech stack have a major advantage when they enter the workforce.” – Dr. BJ Allen

Resources

Connect with Dr. BJ Allen and Donald C. Kelly on LinkedIn to chat about this episode or ask any questions.

Does the European Union have formal sales education? Sales isn’t just a U.S. conversation, it’s happening across the world. That’s why we invited Bert Paesbrugghe, a French author and sales professor, to share how Europe approaches sales education, including programs that go as far as a master’s degree.

Meet Bert Paesbrugghe

• Bert Paesbrugghe is a sales expert, author, and educator based in Paris. He teaches sales and purchasing at Iéseg School of Management, where he is also helping shape the next generation of sales professionals.
• Through his teaching, writing, and work with businesses, Bert has played a key role in advancing sales education across Europe. This includes helping develop formal programs like master’s degrees in sales.

Sales Education Is Evolving Quickly in Europe

• Paesbrugghe shares how the shift is being driven by companies that need more advanced sales talent. This pushes universities to move from offering no sales courses to building full master’s programs.
• While U.S. schools openly promote sales programs, European institutions have traditionally been more reserved. In many cases, they position sales under areas like negotiation to attract students.
• Even with fewer established programs, European schools are often quicker to adapt. This is largely due to close collaboration between universities and the business world.

How Sales Is Being Repositioned for Today’s Students

• One of the biggest challenges is changing how people view sales. Many students still associate sales with outdated roles like door-to-door selling or entry-level retail positions.
• To attract top talent, programs are reframing sales as business development, account management, or international negotiation.
• As more graduates enter high-paying roles in tech sales, peers are starting to see sales as a path to both financial success and a high-quality lifestyle.

Understanding How Buyers Actually Operate

• Paesbrugghe emphasizes that sellers and purchasers often think very differently, and that gap can make or break a deal.
• Large organizations are managing thousands of suppliers at once, which forces procurement teams to prioritize business continuity and streamline decisions.
• Many sellers attempt to bypass them, but that often creates friction and leads to tougher negotiations or lost deals.
• Why follow the platinum rule? When you treat others how you want to be treated, it helps build trust and make complex buying processes much smoother.

“Sellers are from Mars and purchasers are from Venus. Despite their differences, they’re both working toward the same goal: a lasting relationship.” — Bert Paesbrugghe

Resources

For more insights into the buyer's perspective and Bert’s research, check out his book, The Buyer’s Balance.

Connect with Bert Paesbrugghe on LinkedIn to discuss the insights from his book or this episode.

To learn how to better manage your customer experience and supplier relationships, visit EvaluationHub.

Yes, you know you should teach cold calling, how to ask probing questions, and all of the classic sales techniques. But there are hidden topics managers wish professors taught before students enter the industry. Today, we’re sharing three of them so you can better prepare your students for the sales profession.

Mastering Time and Planning

• One of the most consistent themes was time management. Managers repeatedly shared that new hires struggle with planning and prioritization.
• Learning how to structure your day, block time for prospecting, and plan ahead is not just helpful. It is essential. 
• When you treat your schedule like a strategy instead of a reaction, you begin to see real results.

Why CRM and Data Matter

• Top performers do not guess. They use data. Understanding how to use a CRM, track activity, and analyze performance helps sales professionals focus on what actually works.

Business Acumen Sets You Apart

• Sales is not just about selling. It is about understanding business.
• When you can speak the language of finance, interpret reports, and understand how companies operate, you position yourself as a true advisor. That level of insight builds credibility and drives better conversations.

The Power of Mindset

• Sales is a mental game. Rejection, uncertainty, and pressure are part of the process.
• Developing a growth mindset allows you to stay focused, improve daily, and push through challenges. The ability to learn, adapt, and stay resilient is what separates good sellers from great ones.

“Finance is the language of business. If you can speak English, you can survive in the U.S. If you can speak finance, you can thrive in business.” - Donald Kelly

“Sales is not just about selling. It’s about understanding the business behind the sale.” - Dr. BJ Allen 

Resources

If you would like to view our sales course, go to thesalesevangelist.com/linkedin.

We spend a lot of time teaching salespeople how to ask great questions. But many still miss the difference between uncovering a need and understanding what a prospect already wants. We’re going over how to teach students to ask better diagnostic questions so they can recognize the difference.

Needs vs Wants

• If a customer is early in their journey, they may need help uncovering the problem. But if they are further along, they are looking for solutions.
• A simple question like, “What prompted you to take this meeting?” can completely change the direction of the conversation and save time while building trust.

Avoid the One-Path Approach

• Not every buyer is the same. Some are exploring for the first time. Others have already done their research and know what they are looking for. 
• Treating every customer the same can feel frustrating and even dismissive to someone who is informed.
• Great sellers adjust their approach based on where the customer is in their journey.

Use Stories to Guide the Conversation

• When introducing a new or better solution, stories are one of the most effective tools.
• Instead of correcting the customer directly, sharing an example of someone in a similar situation creates credibility and helps the buyer see themselves in the outcome. 
• It also makes the conversation feel less confrontational and more collaborative.

The Real Skill

• Listening is not about following a script. It is about understanding the customer’s mindset and adapting in real time.
• When you balance asking questions with understanding what the customer already knows, you create stronger conversations and better results.

“Ask early what the customer wants. It can save you from asking the wrong questions.” - Dr. BJ Allen 

“Great sellers don’t just diagnose. They guide, and stories are how they do it.” - Donald C. Kelly

Resources

If you would like to view our sales course, go to thesalesevangelist.com/linkedin.

Are we preparing students for what hiring managers actually look for today? Traditional approaches can set graduates up for unnecessary hurdles when classroom learning isn’t connected to real-world expectations. Joining us in this episode is Professor Greg Zippi, who shares his journey into sales education and why he built his curriculum on research-based methods to better prepare students for today’s workforce.

Meet Professor Greg Zippi

1. Greg Zippi is a veteran sales and marketing leader with over 30 years of experience building and scaling B2B software companies.
2. He was an early employee at Oracle and later helped grow Omniture, which Adobe acquired in 2008 to form the foundation of its Experience Cloud.
3. After retiring from full-time operating roles, Greg transitioned into teaching and now serves as an adjunct professor at Brigham Young University, where he has taught Advanced Professional B2B Selling for six years.
4. His work focuses on data-driven, research-backed sales principles that prepare students for real-world success.

Building a Research-Based Curriculum

1. Dr. BJ Allen and Professor Zippi found that students benefit most when taught using SPIN Selling and Challenger frameworks instead of traditional textbooks.
2. Professor Zippi explains that these frameworks were chosen for their strong research foundation and their evolution alongside modern sales practices.
3. Together, we discuss the importance of teaching both theory and practical application, giving students the skills they need to succeed in real-world sales roles.

Centering the Buyer’s Journey

1. Professor Zippi explores how to move from a seller-focused approach to a buyer-centered sales process.
2. He explains why understanding each phase of the buyer’s journey helps build trust and close deals.
3. To strengthen student skills in each phase, he suggests letting them do role-playing exercises with real products. This way they can get hands-on experience before leaving the classrooms.

Differentiation & Competitive Positioning

1. Professor Zippi shares data that 79% of buyers can’t tell the difference between anyone they spoke to during their sales process.
2. How can new sellers position themselves as the prime choice among everyone else, especially when competitors are involved? Professor Zippi shares techniques for framing them as the go-to seller without bashing anyone.
3. He also shares how he likes to do a “mentor” assignment in his classroom. Students practice analyzing strengths, vulnerabilities, and differentiation of a product along with a seasoned professional. This provides students with hands-on experience in competitive positioning.

“We spend a lot of time figuring out how to differentiate ourselves. I wanted to make sure the students understood how to take that off the table and how to avoid being seen as the same as everybody else out there. That’s really important.”- Professor Greg Zippi

Resources

Contact Professor Zippi by email gregzippi@byu.edu and about questions on this episode or to discuss sales teaching further.

One of the biggest worries students face is whether they will be able to get a job after graduation. How can you help ease their concerns? In this episode, we share how professors can teach their students to sell themselves and land jobs more effectively on LinkedIn.

Crafting a Standout LinkedIn Profile

1. Branding matters more than ever. When recruiters visit LinkedIn profiles, they want to see a consistent message that tells a clear story.
2. They don’t just want to see that someone graduated from the University of South Florida.
3. Recruiters want to understand your passion, the position you’re seeking, and your relevant achievements.

Communicating Passion & Value

1. Crafting a story isn’t as hard as students may think. They just need to think of their LinkedIn profile as a personal website.
2. Even without professional experience, students can differentiate themselves by highlighting the details of their unique experiences.
3. BJ goes into detail on how to tailor each LinkedIn profile section into a one-minute elevator pitch that lets recruiters clearly see their interest and passion for sales.

Building Presence & Network Consistently

1. Everyone thinks you have to be a big influencer to get attention on LinkedIn, but that’s far from the truth. What matters more when building a presence is consistency.
2. Trying to provide a class assignment is one that helps students intentionally build their presence on the platform. Have them connect with ten new people weekly to secure an informational interview.

Creative Cadence & Prospecting Techniques

1. Being creative is a part of being a seller. In our course, we develop different ways students can uniquely reach out to prospects.
2. For example, we offer a simulation that reinforces some of the advice shared in this episode.
3. One of the best ways to stand out to prospects is by sending a voice or video message to grab their attention and encourage a response.

“I tell my students to build your sales cadence by using LinkedIn for voice messages. LinkedIn has the option to do a voice message and a lot of people find them annoying, but they work because they're different. If you want to stand out, you have to TRY to stand out.” - Dr. BJ Allen

Resources

If you would like to view our sales course, go to thesalesevangelist.com/linkedin.

You want to teach a specific sales theory in your classroom but aren’t sure how students can apply it in the real world? Joining me in this episode is Pramit Banerjee, a Missouri Western State University sales professor, to share how he builds his sales curriculum to give students the hands-on experience they need. Oh, and sorry, BJ missed this episode. He was in Florida for a sales competition!

Meet Pramit Banerjee

1. Thirty years ago, working in sales wasn’t even on Banerjee’s radar. From a young age, he was told his only career options were doctor, engineer, or failure.
2. Because medicine was so competitive, Banerjee decided to earn an MBA and start a career in marketing.
3. After graduating, he landed a sales manager position at Nokia and struggled to understand sales at first.
4. Through trial and error, he eventually got the hang of it and became a sales educator at Missouri Western State University.

Making Sales Real in the Classroom

1. If you struggle with making theoretical concepts feel real for your students, Banerjee suggests sharing personal stories from your time in the field.
2. Students can’t learn everything from textbooks and won’t experience real sales until they start their first sales roles. Your workplace experience can give them valuable knowledge before they get there.
3. Banerjee also recommends that professors form industry partnerships. Local companies can offer mini-mentorships to give students firsthand exposure to sales careers.
4. Most students struggle with role plays and would rather avoid them. Of course, there’s no way around it. Banerjee shares how he keeps role plays fun and engaging so students can get the experience they need.
5. The last creative way Banerjee makes sales real in the classroom is by using AI-driven role plays.
6. Students scan QR codes to start role plays with AI acting as supportive or challenging prospects. The AI adjusts difficulty to each student’s skill level, creating a realistic, tech-forward learning environment.

Student Reactions & Teaching Impact

1. Banerjee’s students love the interactive nature of his classes, which keeps them engaged and involved in the learning process.
2. Relating real-world experiences to classroom lessons helps students see the relevance of what they’re learning.
3. The AI-driven exercises, while challenging at first, complement hands-on role plays and enhance the experiential learning experience.

“Know your own strengths and be your own self. We all have different strengths. Try to find out what you are good at.” - Pramit Banerjee

Resources

Chat with Pramit Banerjee about this episode or sales education through email, pbanerjee@missouriwestern.edu.

You can’t go into sales with just any mindset. If your students’ mindset is to join the industry only for the money, they may not make it very far. How can professors help students develop the right sales mindset before their first role? Dr. BJ Allen and I are going to tell you how in this episode.

Fixed vs. Growth Mindset: Why It Matters

1. BJ opens by pointing out that sales is tough. Students and new professionals often struggle with motivation, rejection, and the day to day grind of selling.
2. We talk through Carol Dweck’s concept of fixed versus growth mindset and why developing a growth mindset makes such a big difference in sales and in life beyond the classroom.
3. Students regularly tell us that learning how to recognize and shift their mindset is one of the most valuable takeaways from their courses.

Motivating Students: Discovering Their “Why”

1. We also dig into the importance of helping students uncover their personal “why.” That deeper motivation is what keeps them going when sales gets hard.
2. Whether it is supporting family, traveling, or genuinely helping customers, having a clear reason behind the work fuels long term persistence and confidence.

Learn, Implement, Feedback

1. Throughout the episode, we share a simple and practical approach: learn, implement, ask for feedback, and repeat.
2. This cycle reinforces continuous improvement and resilience while encouraging students and educators to see mistakes as part of the learning process.

“Teach students not just what salespeople do, but how successful salespeople think. It’ll benefit them, whether they stay in sales or not.” - BJ Allen

AI has made many changes within the sales industry, including the SDR role. Those in the role will need to focus more on personalization over sequences, but how? Joining us for this episode is Kristie Jones, author and sales professional, to answer that question. She also shares how forward thinking sales education is adapting to keep up with tech savvy and highly informed buyers.

From Process to Personalization

1. We open the conversation by talking about the decreasing importance of templated outreach and rigid sales sequences.
2. Kristie explains why deep personalization and customization are becoming essential in every buyer interaction.
3. Today’s buyers gather so much information on their own that generic messaging simply does not work the way it once did.

The Buyer’s Journey Has Changed

1. We also discuss how buyers now expect to self educate before ever speaking with a sales rep. They download content, attend webinars, and even use AI tools to research solutions.
2. Because of this shift, companies must lead with transparency, and the roles of SDRs and BDRs look very different than they did just a few years ago.

Redefining the SDR and BDR Role

1. We explore how entry level sales roles are evolving. It is no longer just about dialing and sending emails.
2. These professionals now need strong critical thinking skills, the ability to interpret intent signals, and the confidence to step into conversations that are already well underway.
3. Kristie shares why she sees a move toward a junior AE model and emphasizes creativity and value driven engagement.

The New Sales Curriculum

1. We also talk about what this means for sales educators. Kristie encourages professors to shift classroom activities away from memorizing scripts and toward understanding use cases, creating value, and developing soft skills.
2. Trust building, objection handling, industry knowledge, and strong alignment between marketing and sales are more important than ever.

Practical Classroom Applications

1. To make this practical, Kristie suggests using real world scenarios in the classroom. She recommends challenging students to analyze buyer behavior and craft personalized, high value outreach strategies that reflect how modern sales actually works.

“Buyers are so much further along that you cannot rely on email templates or generic voicemails. So the question becomes, how do you use the information you have to reach out in a way that is customized, gets their attention, and makes them say yes?” - Kristie Jones

Resources

Find Kristie Jones on LinkedIn or visit kristiekjones.com.

No one likes role playing, but it is a necessary part of becoming a successful seller. The good news is there are ways to make it more fun and engaging for students. In this episode, BJ Allen and I share practical tactics to help students get more comfortable with role playing and show professors how to turn it into a meaningful learning experience.

Why Role Plays Matter

1. Even though students may resist role plays at first, they often become one of the most valuable parts of the course.
2. Based on student feedback, BJ and I have seen role plays rank highly in evaluations.
3. Introducing them early, sometimes as soon as the second day of class, helps lower anxiety and build confidence over time.
4. Role plays give students a chance to apply what they are learning right away, helping them move from theory to real conversations.

Effective Strategies for Role Plays

1. Here’s how we design and run role plays in class:
2. Teach, Demonstrate, Practice: We follow a simple approach. First, we teach the concept. Then we demonstrate what it looks like in action. Finally, we give students time to practice so they can build comfort through repetition.
3. Start Simple: We keep scenarios familiar and relatable, such as selling well-known products in a B2B setting. This helps students focus on the skill instead of getting stuck on the scenario.
4. Clear Structure: Students know exactly where the conversation starts and ends. Each role play has clear steps and a set time limit so expectations are clear.
5. Feedback That Evolves: Early in the semester, the focus is simply on practice. As students gain confidence, we introduce more specific feedback using clear criteria so they can continue improving.

Tips for Professors: Start Small and Improve Over Time

1. If you are new to using role plays in the classroom, the advice BJ and I share is simple. Just start. Your first few role plays do not need to be perfect, and it is normal for both you and your students to feel uncomfortable at the beginning. That discomfort fades as everyone gets more reps and confidence grows.
2. As you continue using role plays, you will naturally see what works and what does not. Each class gives you an opportunity to adjust your approach and improve how you structure the exercise.
3. Keep things simple and give both yourself and your students room to learn. With a clear structure, limited scope, and supportive feedback, role plays become less awkward and more valuable over time. By the end of the semester, students consistently say they appreciate the experience and the confidence it builds.

“Let the students give feedback, but give them very specific points to focus on.” — BJ Allen

“Giving them clear criteria for how they’ll be evaluated helps fine-tune the role play. I’ve seen it be very effective.” — Donald Kelly

After our last conversation on sales competitions, we decided to invite someone who is often behind the scenes of them. In this episode, Detra Montya, a sales professor at Arizona State University, joins us to share what it really takes to pull sales competitions together. She also offers coaching tips for professors on helping students work through challenges, along with useful tools to prepare for the rivalry.

How the Competition Got Started

1. We asked Detra how the Arizona Collegiate Sales Competition began, and it all started with a simple conversation over coffee between three universities.
2. What began with about 25 students has grown into a competition with 15 schools and more than a decade of impact.

Why Sales Competitions Matter

1. We talked about why sales competitions are so valuable for students. They give students real world experience, exposure to recruiters and different markets, and the confidence that comes from practicing their skills under pressure.
2. Detra and BJ Allen shared how these competitions often lead to internships, full time roles, and lasting relationships.

What It Takes to Run a Competition

1. Detra pulled back the curtain on what goes into organizing a sales competition. From securing sponsors and managing logistics to handling last minute challenges, she emphasized the importance of teamwork and adaptability.

Coaching Students to Perform

1. For professors and coaches, Detra shared practical strategies that work.
2. She talked about being intentional with student selection, running timed practice sessions, using tools like Second Nature AI, and focusing on closing skills, cultural awareness, and time management.

Adjusting to Each Environment

1. Detra reminded us that success depends on more than knowing the sales process.
2. Understanding the industry, judging style, and competition culture is key, and preparation should always reflect that.

“When you do a role play in Spanish, you have to think about the culture. Building relationships and connections matter, especially when judges or buyers are Spanish speaking.” - Detra Montoya

Resources

Connect with Detra Montoya on LinkedIn or via her email: detra.montoya@asu.edu to learn more and exchange best practices.

Put these ideas into practice by using tools like Second Nature AI and Matrix to prepare for your next sales competition.

Did you know that sales reps spend 60% of their day on tasks that don’t directly generate revenue? Much of this time is eaten up by planning and other non-sales activities. 

In this episode, BJ and I discuss how sales professors can teach students to plan their day effectively. This helps them stay productive and focus on the activities that drive results.

Why Planning Matters

·  In sales, everyone talks about closing techniques and prospecting hacks, but I want to shine a light on a less glamorous but crucial skill: planning. 

·  Learning how to manage your time effectively is one of the most important foundations for early sales success, and it can make a real difference in how students perform once they hit the field.

Student Insights: Planning’s Real-World Impact

·  Over the years, I’ve been surprised by how much students value planning exercises.

·  Many of them tell me that these lessons have had more impact than trendy topics like LinkedIn prospecting. 

·  BJ and I have seen students consistently rank planning skills as the most transformative lesson, both for their careers and their personal productivity.

Teaching Time Management: From Principles to Practice

·   We break down how to embed planning into a sales curriculum in a practical way:

o   Principles First: Students learn the difference between activity and productivity. We use exercises and psychological studies to bust multitasking myths and show the power of focused work.

o   Time Blocking and Color Coding: Techniques like batching similar tasks and visually organizing a calendar help students understand where their time really goes.

o   Weekly and Daily Planning: We walk students through breaking weekly targets into actionable daily routines, ensuring prospecting and customer-facing work happens consistently rather than by chance.

Making Planning Measurable

·  We also emphasize the importance of metrics. Tracking calls, outreach efforts, and alignment with KPIs turns planning into a measurable skill. 

·  This approach moves students and new sellers from just staying busy to actually being productive and results-driven.

"Good salespeople know how to use their time effectively...People who can kind of plan their day and do more revenue generating activities are the ones that succeed." - BJ Allen

"Focus on the activity and the results will come as a natural byproduct. But if you don’t plan at a day-to-day level, you might say, ‘I did some prospecting this week,’ but how much time did you really spend on it?" - Donald Kelly

Most sellers are seen as untrustworthy because of their methods, but those are not professional sellers. Real sellers are problem solvers. How can professors get their students to see them this way? Our guest, George Denman, a sales leader and educator, is here to tell us how he does it. He also shares sales closing techniques and other tips professors can use to help their students prepare for the real world.

Breaking Down Sales Stereotypes

• Too often, people think of sales as pushy, manipulative, or just plain sleazy. George shares how those same misconceptions shaped his early view of sales, including opinions from people close to him. 
• He explains why real sales success looks very different, with a strong focus on listening, authenticity, and solving problems instead of forcing a pitch.

Bringing the Real World Into the Classroom

• George walks us through how he brings real industry experience into his teaching. He uses role plays, guest speakers, and real client scenarios to help students see the human side of sales. 
• We talk about how techniques like his “spin” approach shift the focus away from closing deals and toward uncovering needs and creating real solutions.

Preparing Students for What Comes Next

• We also dig into the challenge of moving from corporate sales into academia. George shares what surprised him most, including slower feedback and the work it takes to turn experience into effective lessons. 
• His advice is simple and practical: do not reinvent the wheel. Start with a solid curriculum, then adapt it over time. At the end of the day, his goal is the same as ours, to prepare students with real world skills they can use long after the classroom.

“The goal is to prepare students for real life. You can share your successes and failures, but students have to close the deal themselves. Your job is to get them ready for the real world.” - George Denman

Resources

Reach out to George Denman at his Miami email: denomang@miamioh.edu

What’s the difference between sellers making millions and those who struggle to close a deal? Keurig founder Christopher Stevens says it’s not about being the best. It’s about getting things done. In this episode, he shares lessons professors can pass along to students, proving that big results can come from anywhere.

Meet Christopher Stevens

1. Chris is currently an Associate Professor at the University of Notre Dame, where he returned to teach after a long and successful business career that began in sales at Procter & Gamble.
2. He went on to lead an Anheuser-Busch distributorship and later ran a large spirits, wine, and beer company. In 1996, he joined two entrepreneurs to help launch what would become Keurig, where he led sales, marketing, and corporate responsibility as the company grew from a fad into a phenomenon.
3. Today, Chris continues to shape future leaders at Notre Dame while also serving as an active angel investor supporting startups focused on doing good alongside making a profit.

The Reality of Selling

1. Selling isn’t what you think it is. You have to see it beyond the transaction to understand the true meaning of selling.
2. Chris reminds us that nothing happens in business until someone sells something, and most startups fail because they do not sell enough.
3. He challenges students to rethink rejection, explaining that real selling often starts at the first no and becomes an opportunity to earn trust and solve real problems.

Being Human Builds Relationships

1. Deep human connection is at the heart of successful sales. Chris shares several stories from his classes, such as assigning handwritten thank-you notes and service projects.
2. These experiences help students look beyond themselves and foster genuine relationships.
3. Through service and storytelling, students learn that success in sales comes from empathy, connection, and real understanding of others’ needs.

Advice on Designing a Sales Curriculum

1. Chris shares how he doesn’t understand how students manage it today with AI and social media constantly in their face.
2. He says it’s important for professors to recognize just how overwhelmed students are and recommends integrating motivational content like TED Talks.
3. Chris also stresses the value of finding mentors and partners and encourages educators to help students discover their “why.”

“There are three kinds of people: those who make things happen, those who watch, and those who wonder what happened. To make things happen, follow Winston Churchill’s advice: don’t do your best, do what it takes to get the job done.” - Christopher Stevens

Resources

Christopher Stevens contact: email - csteven6@nd.edu, number - 617-510-5028

Books: Five: Where Do You Want to Be in Five Years?, Winner’s Dream

TED Talks: Susan Cain – The Power of Introverts, Simon Sinek – The Golden Circle, Admiral William McRaven – University of Texas Commencement Address, Admiral McRaven - Make Your Bed

We’ve both been looking into our crystal balls to see what 2026 sales predictions look like from both the industry side and the education side. In this episode, we’re sharing 2026 trends that will help sales professors feel confident they’re teaching their students the latest sales techniques.

1. Growth in Sales Education

1. Every semester, BJ is seeing more and more students in his classroom. He also shares a statistic from the Sales Education Foundation that shows 50% of sales programs have been started in the last 20 years.
2. BJ is projecting even more students will enroll in these programs as demand grows in tech and as more students show interest in sales careers.

2. Increased Use of AI Agents

1. No, AI is not taking our jobs. However, there are tasks that have become a nuisance for sales professionals. Email, research, follow-ups… why do it yourself when technology can handle it for you?
2. Donald is seeing real growth in the use of AI agents for these types of tasks. However, BJ does point out there’s one task AI agents will never be able to replace.

3. Continued Growth and the Need for Humanization in Sales Outreach

1. Buyers are becoming more resistant to traditional sales techniques. Donald is seeing firsthand how much distrust exists with buyers right now and why personalization matters more than ever.
2. If we teach sales students this in college, they’ll be much better prepared for what the industry actually looks like.

We’re seeing more students enroll in sales programs, along with more intersection between AI and human skills. Donald is also seeing a heightened demand for ROI, as buyers want clear value and proof of their investments. If sellers can build real connections while showing ROI early, the sky is the limit.

“I feel like LinkedIn comments are critical and honestly better than messages. There should be more salespeople commenting on posts. People want that real connection. And yeah, you can use AI to do some commenting, but you can usually tell the difference between an AI comment and a human one.” — Donald Kelly

“It’s about developing organic relationships. This goes back to what I was saying earlier, the split between those menial tasks AI can handle. Great, let AI do that. But the students and salespeople who can build real, organic relationships are the ones who continue to do really well.” — BJ Allen

One of the best ways to get your students excited about the industry is by taking them to sales competitions. BJ can tell you how his students’ faces light up every time he takes them to one. In this episode, he shares the full breakdown of sales competitions so you can get just as excited about the profession.

Why Sales Competitions?

·  We believe sales competitions do more than just test student skills. They help elevate a program’s credibility and act as a strong branding tool for schools. 

·  BJ Allen shares how participating in both local and national competitions opens the door to more networking and recruiting opportunities. These events also give programs a way to compare their curriculum with other top schools and identify what is working well and what could be improved.

How to Get Started

·  You do not need prior experience to get started. Just take those first steps, that’s what really matters. We talk about starting with an internal competition or using it as a class exercise before expanding into regional or national events. 

·  Funding can often come from department chairs or local business sponsors. Try using the Sales Education Foundation as a helpful resource for finding both regional and national competitions.

Prepping Your Students

·  Preparation plays a big role in student success. BJ emphasizes the importance of role play, repetition, and selecting students who truly understand the sales process. 

·  Watching students practice and offering feedback through peer-to-peer role play helps sharpen coaching and build confidence heading into competitions.

“Just like anything, you just have to start. You don’t have to know everything or have it all in place. Start with an internal competition to get a feel for it, see what works, and then find a nearby competition that is affordable. Ask your department chair for some support. You can probably find a sales executive who loves competitions and just ask them to sponsor a couple thousand dollars to help. The key is to just start somewhere.”

- BJ Allen

Resources

Connect with BJ Allen on LinkedIn for more competition insights or curriculum guidance. You can also reach out to him by email: bj_allen@byu.edu.

Sales success doesn’t start with scripts or closing techniques, it starts with mastering the fundamentals. In this episode of Sales 101, we sit down with Barry Erickson, a seasoned sales leader who breaks down what truly matters when building strong sales habits, authentic client relationships, and long-term success. Barry shares practical insights drawn from real-world experience and explains why going back to basics is often the fastest way forward.

Meet Barry Erickson

Barry Erickson is a respected sales leader and mentor with decades of experience developing sales professionals and high-performing teams. Known for his straightforward, people-first approach, Barry focuses on building trust, mastering fundamentals, and creating repeatable sales processes that drive consistent results. His philosophy emphasizes preparation, curiosity, and meaningful client conversations.

Why Sales Fundamentals Still Matter (00:01:45 – 00:03:30)

Barry explains why strong fundamentals remain the foundation of every successful sales career and how skipping the basics often leads to burnout, inconsistency, and stalled growth.

Understanding the Buyer Before Selling (00:03:31 – 00:06:20)

He shares why listening, asking better questions, and understanding client needs should always come before pitching solutions.

Building Trust Through Authentic Conversations (00:06:21 – 00:09:10)

Barry discusses how trust is built through honesty, preparation, and consistency not pressure tactics or quick closes.

The Role of Preparation in Sales Success (00:09:11 – 00:12:05)

Preparation is a recurring theme as Barry outlines how research, intention, and clarity help sales professionals show up confidently and professionally.

Handling Rejection and Staying Consistent (00:12:06 – 00:15:00)

Barry shares how to reframe rejection, stay emotionally resilient, and maintain momentum even during challenging seasons.

Developing Daily Sales Habits That Compound Over Time (00:15:01 – 00:18:20)

Small, consistent actions lead to long-term success. Barry highlights the daily habits that separate average performers from top producers.

Advice for New and Emerging Sales Professionals (00:18:21 – 00:21:40)

From mindset to discipline, Barry offers practical guidance for those early in their sales careers and reminders that growth takes time.

Key Lesson: Master the Basics and Trust the Process (00:21:41 – 00:23:30)

Barry reinforces that sales excellence isn’t about shortcuts it’s about repetition, refinement, and staying committed to the fundamentals.

“Sales isn’t about convincing someone it’s about understanding them well enough to help them make the right decision.” – Barry Erickson

Resources

Connect with Barry Erickson on LinkedIn to learn more about his sales philosophy and leadership insights.

I’m sure you’ve realized by now that the real sales world and classroom sales are nowhere near the same. So, how can you help your students bridge that gap and prepare them to succeed in the field? To help answer this, we invited Kim Ruggiero, sales professor at Arizona State University (ASU). She’s here to share insights on transforming sales education and better equipping your students for the real world.

Meet Kim Ruggiero

· Kim Ruggiero is a trailblazer in sales education with over four decades of experience at industry leaders like AT&T and Verizon.

· After a successful corporate career, she brought her expertise to academia and launched Arizona State University’s first professional sales class nearly 18 years ago.

· Known for her dynamic, student-focused teaching style, Kim emphasizes confidence, creative outreach, and practical skills while encouraging students to engage with industry professionals and build valuable connections.

Building a Practical Sales Curriculum (00:02:23 - 00:03:40)

· Kim highlights the importance of bringing real-world experience into the classroom, creating a course that students consistently value for its practical approach.

Overcoming Self-Doubt and Building Confidence (00:03:41 - 00:05:35)

· She addresses common “sales reluctance” and structures her teams so students gain confidence early by reaching out to senior executives for interviews.

The Team Interview Project (00:05:35 - 00:07:12)

· Students work in groups to secure and interview senior sales leaders, while Kim guides them to ask creative, meaningful questions that go beyond the basics.

Breaking Sales Stereotypes and Facing Challenges (00:07:15 - 00:10:00)

· She discusses how these projects shift students’ perceptions of sales and helps them overcome confidence and outreach anxiety to be ready for real-world selling.

Success Stories: Unique Interview Wins (00:10:07 - 00:12:56)

· Kim shares standout student achievements, including interviews and live performances with executives at major companies, some leading directly to job offers.

The Power of Creative Outreach (00:12:56 - 00:15:12)

· She emphasizes research, personalization, and preparation, showing how thoughtful outreach leads to stronger connections and real opportunities.

Research Techniques for Reaching Executives (00:15:13 - 00:17:24)

· Kim explains how students can use LinkedIn, company resources, and in-depth questions to go beyond information easily found online.

Involving Industry Leaders in the Classroom (00:17:26 - 00:22:12)

· She highlights the value of advisory boards and guest speakers in providing mentorship, networking, and job opportunities for students.

Preparing Students for Real-World Sales Careers (00:22:13 - 00:26:02)

· Kim shares examples of how her outcomes-focused approach results in career opportunities and executive-level connections for students.

Key Lesson: Don’t Be Afraid to Aim Higher (00:24:02 - 00:26:07)

· She recounts a student’s interaction with a sales VP who encouraged them to reach out directly to the CEO, reinforcing the importance of aiming higher in professional ambitions.

“If you’re not prepared to have a proper conversation with a client, you’re doing both yourself and your customer a disservice.” – Kim Ruggiero

Resources

Reach out to Kim Ruggiero on LinkedIn, or send her an email at kim.ruggiero@asu.edu.

In this episode, we delve into how educators can actively prepare students for real-world sales challenges, moving beyond rote memorization and final exams. Rich Kuzmeski shares invaluable insights into experiential learning strategies that facilitate student success, enhancing both confidence and competency in the field of sales.

Creating Engaging Role Plays for Practical Learning

● Role plays designed to mirror real-life scenarios empower students to create their own scripts, fostering ownership and individual learning.

● Students research various industries thoroughly, refining their understanding and relevant questioning techniques necessary for success in sales.

● Structured role plays focus on the discovery call process, allowing students to practice asking impactful questions rather than simply pitching a product.

The Importance of Listening and Discovery in Sales

● Students often struggle with the fear of silence during sales calls, making it crucial to build their comfort with open-ended questioning and attentive listening.

● Emphasizing a 70/30 listening-to-talking ratio teaches students that effective selling is rooted in understanding customer needs rather than just presenting.

● By structuring prompts to encourage follow-up questions, students learn to drive conversations deeper, uncovering critical insights necessary for making meaningful connections.

Extending Learning Beyond the Classroom

● Participation in internal and external sales competitions provides students with hands-on experiences that translate classroom knowledge into actionable skills in real-world situations.

● Establishing connections with industry representatives and creating opportunities for networking prepares students for internships and jobs after graduation.

● Achievements in competitions bolster student resumes while enhancing the overall credibility of the sales program, attracting more prospective students and professionals to engage.

Homework Challenge or Action Steps

● Challenge students to design their own sales role play based on a chosen industry, incorporating both questions and anticipated answers to practice smooth dialogue.

● Encourage educators to implement experiential learning techniques, such as guest speakers and live events, to enrich the educational experience beyond textbooks.

"Be honest. It's way easier to remember the truth than it is to remember what you may or may not have made up." ● Rich Kuzmeki.

Resources

● Oklahoma State University Sales Center(https://business.okstate.edu/sales)

● Sales Competitions Overview(https://business.okstate.edu/sales/competitions)

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Credits

Produced by bluëmango | STUDIOS Music by SoundStripe. Thanks for tuning in!

Have you ever tried to create a courseware for a sales class and just felt like you had no clue what to do? Today, we’re going to share some of the mistakes that we made and how you can avoid them.

The Horrors of Starting a Sales Curriculum

·  Sales leaders and professors are always stuck with one question when building their first curriculum: Where do you even start?

·  How do you find that perfect balance between a traditional classroom or university learning style and sales, which is such an applied discipline?

·  We both share our stories about developing our first sales curriculum for our college students. 

·  Our experience also helped us notice the mistakes other sales professors were making.

·  The common course development mistakes we saw were: trying to cover too much content, creating too many unstructured assignments, and lacking an efficient grading system.

Four Steps to Building a Sales Curriculum

·  Make sure you have a pen and paper ready. We go into the details of each of these steps and the resources that will help you build your sales curriculum.

1.    Define Your Course’s Focus: You need to know what job role you’re preparing your students for. Are you teaching future entry-level sellers, Business Development Representatives (BDRs), Sales Development Representatives (SDRs), account managers, or something else? 

·  Narrowing this down will help you know what personal experiences you should share and what your core course subjects should be.

2.  Choose Your Sales Process: Is there a specific process, methodology, or widely recognized industry resource that you use to structure your course? A logical progression is essential. 

·  Sales is a highly applied discipline, and most students taking an intro class don’t even know what professional selling really is. Throwing every possible approach or concept at them at once actually does more harm than good. 

·  Instead, picking a foundation—whether it’s a sales method like Challenger, SPIN, Sandler, or a structured process laid out in a well-regarded textbook—helps you guide students step by step. Each week or module builds on the last, creating continuity and a “map” students can follow.

3.  Integrate Learning into the Real World: Consider how to bring the realities of sales into the classroom. 

·  Figure out what tools, scenarios, or voices you’re going to use to teach your students. For example, we created a simulation to go along with our textbook, designed assignments on how to use specific tools such as Apollo, and invited industry experts to share their knowledge with our students.

4.  Make Grading Efficient for You: Design your grading and assignments so your students will know what’s expected. But also tailor it to how you can save time.

·  Do this by using clear rubrics, integrating assignments, getting help from TAs, and leveraging automation when you can.

"You can't teach everything in one classroom." - BJ Allen.

“It’s tough being able to take 15 - 20 years of experience and give it all to a student. It’s not wise to teach them everything at once, as they won’t be able to absorb it all. They just need enough to get to the next step.” - Donald Kelly.

Resources

·  Get your copy of Fanatical Prospecting by Jeb Blount.

·  Connect with Donald Kelly and BJ Allen on LinkedIn. Be sure to reach out for feedback or help with your own curriculum.

·  Visit the show’s Substack for additional resources and downloads.

Join our Substack - https://open.substack.com/pub/sales101b2bsalesclassroom/p/teaching-professional-selling-for?r=9thf3&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false

Welcome to the B2B classroom, students! Our sales podcast is designed to be a resource for college sales students and professionals. We, your co-hosts Donald Kelly and BJ Allen, interview industry experts to get their insights on the current trends in the B2B world.

Introducing Ourselves: Donald Kelly and BJ Allen

• Before we discuss why we started this podcast, we wanted to introduce ourselves to you and share our story.
• We teach sales at the college level, co-authored a sales textbook, and designed a simulation that goes along with it. 
• But our friendship goes back years before this; we met at a church mission, and 20-plus years later, we are still making memories together.

About the Podcast: Sales 101

• After teaching hundreds of students and developing numerous partnerships, we're bringing the knowledge of both the classroom and the industry to the sales world.
• With so much information available, many professors struggle to share their knowledge effectively, and students are often unsure which methods are best to use. 
• We aim to show professors how to build a curriculum from their own expertise—or from others'—and empower students to adopt these proven strategies.
• The podcast topics include our discussion on one of the most popular topics in the industry: AI in sales. Our past students will come on to share their stories and tell you what they wish they'd known. We will also host industry experts like Mark Hunter and Christy Jones, who will share their real-world experiences.

“Our purpose is to become a resource for you.” - Donald Kelly. 

“We’re both passionate about helping the next rising generation of sellers.” - BJ Allen. 

Resources

www.https://sales101podcast.com/

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Credits  

Audio by SoundStripe.