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What happens when your worldview crashes, but your soul keeps whispering? 

In this raw and intimate episode of Rettals Pub, we wander down the winding paths of Norse paganism, atheism, deconstruction, and the quiet ache for meaning in suffering. 

We’re not here for tidy answers. This is a spiritual sleepover—Kentucky coffee in hand, laughter in the background, and a heartfelt reckoning with what it means to be human, divine, and something in-between. 

Inside this episode: 

• 🌟 Why Odin’s demand for growth may resonate more deeply than salvation 
• 🌟 The haunting question: Are our choices free, or are they part of a sacred unfolding? 
• 🌟 What it feels like to not see visions or hear voices, and still crave the mystery 
• 🌟 Whether running out of gas is divine orchestration or just bad planning 
• 🌟 Honest reflections on pain, purpose, and the children we can’t save 
• 🌟 The ocean-wave metaphor: Are we droplets of God exploring matter? 

Themes include spiritual maturity, mystical vs. practical faith, manifesting vs. surrender, and what it means to ascend without needing to escape. 

This one’s for the seekers who have left religion but still find God in the cracks. It’s for the ones wrestling with fate, free will, and the gnawing ache of unanswered prayers. 

🪑 Pull up a seat. The pub’s open. 

🗣️ Drop your thoughts in the comments—what resonated, what challenged you? And if you’re journeying too, subscribe for more soul-deep dives. 

📜 Referenced Wisdom Sources 

• ✅ Rainn Wilson – Soul Boom: humor-infused blueprint for spiritual evolution. (@rainnwilson) 
• ✅ The Bible – reference to “The steps of a righteous man are ordered” (Psalm 37:23) 
• ✅ Buddhist teaching – life’s purpose is to ascend through experience 🛠️ Concepts, Metaphors, or Frameworks 
• ✅ Odin vs. Jesus Archetype: divine figures as mirrors of inner growth vs. outer salvation 
• ✅ Road to Damascus: metaphor for sudden spiritual awakening 
• ✅ “Wave in the ocean” – we are not God, but of God 
• ✅ Vision Board Manifestation: the tension between free will and fate 
• ✅ Dallas Metaphor: multiple paths, same destination, but who chose the route? 

📖 6. Scriptures or Teachings Referenced 

• 🔸Psalm 37:23 — “The steps of a righteous man are ordered by the Lord”
• 🔸Philippians 2:13 — Implied: “It is God who works in you to will and to act…”
• 🔸 Buddhist Concept — The soul incarnates to experience suffering as part of liberation 

#RettalsPub #SoulVsSpirit #SpiritualAwakening #OdinVsJesus #MysticalRealTalk #DeconstructionJourney #InnerWork 

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Welcome back to Rettals Pub — where spirituality flows like bourbon and truth is chased, not preached.

In this soulful and unscripted episode, we dive into what it really means to love deeply, embrace emotional honesty, and find sacred meaning in the messy parts of life — without the baggage of religion. This one’s for anyone who's ever felt "too much" or not enough. You’re not alone.

Topics we explore:

• Why emotional openness isn't a weakness but a spiritual strength
• Letting go of people’s opinions — and holding onto compassion
• How everyday conversations can "minister" without the pulpit
• The misunderstood word “love” and its many layers
• Soul reflections, spontaneous wisdom, and laughing through the awkward
• The spirituality of breath, being, and friendship
• Fruit trees, reincarnation, and why existence itself is holy

Grab a drink. Settle in. Let’s be real.

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We talk with a long-time friend as he shares his journey out of the Pentecostal church. It began when he saw the greed, the focus and priority placed on constant fundraising, and the comparison to just another multi-level-marketing business. 

What we drank on the show:

• Man-mosa (beer-mosa) made with orange juice & Blue Moon

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We wrap up our interview with Tai and talk about people having "spiritual" gifts and being able to choose how and when they use them. And maybe there's a bigger reason why "God" doesn't answer our prayers...and it's not because we're unworthy or are being punished.

You can find Tai online here:

• TikTok @taideconstructed
• www.taigoodwin.com

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We continue our discussion with Tai, and how our purpose and mission is to be the highest version of ourselves. 

Resources mentioned on the show:

• Messy Spirituality, by Mike Yaconelli

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"I'm talking to those people who are struggling, who've not gotten your questions answered, who when they've asked questions have been told to be quiet, who have suffered mistreatment, abuse, and all other kinds of horrible things in the name of church and the bible and god and gotten no relief. And I'm also talking to those of us who felt like they had to slice pieces of ourselves off to fit in a baptismal pool, but still feel broken, feeling rejected, feeling lost."

We speak with Tai Goodwin about being raised in the church, but finding her way "out" later in life. And just what it meant during meditation to hear the question, "What if we never saw you as anything other than whole?" 

You can find Tai here:

• YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@TaiGoodwin23

Resources mentioned:

• Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

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Nate delivers a brief state of the channel, including the departure of host, Mason. Stay tuned, because good things are ahead, even in the midst of change!

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Did you know?? The pagan order of worship includes 'greeters', prayer, song service, announcements, offering, sermon, post sermon activities (pastor-led prayer, altar call, more singing, the Lord's Supper, prayer for the sick, benediction). Sound familiar??

"Christianity did not destroy paganism...it adopted it." Will Durant, prominent historian

Resources mentioned:

• Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola 
• 13 month calendar

What we drank on the show:

• Banana Pudding Sipping Cream by Sugarlands Distilling
• Sonic Diet Dr. Pepper with Vanilla (Dear Sonic, you need to carry Dr. Pepper Zero!)

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"It doesn't bother me when people practice their faith. It's only when their practice negatively affects someone else that it's a problem."

We wrap up our interview with Robert, and discuss healing from trauma, anxiety, and periodic breakdowns. 

Want to contact Robert for freelance graphic design? intjdesigner@gmail.com
Robert's YouTube channel: @SacredCowDiner

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We discuss how many passages in scripture aren't original and were copied from older texts, and how many seem to be out of alignment with what's considered right/wrong today by modern religion.

Resources mentioned:

• Tribes, by Seth Godin
• Messy Spirituality, by Mike Yaconelli

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We continue the conversation with Robert and discuss fundamentalism and the fact that it's found everywhere: work, home, politics, etc.

It draws a line in the sand that leads to division and violence, and a sense of "I'm better than you", and "I'm right and you're wrong".

Resources mentioned:

• Tribes, by Seth Godin

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We interview Robert Williams, who shares his long time experiences within the Apostolic church, and what ultimately led to his exodus. 

Later, with the help of a therapist, he was able to identify the unrealized spiritual abuse that had occurred, and work to heal those traumas.

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Sometimes it's subtle, sometimes it's a Damascus experience and you get "knocked the f*ck out". And you realize everything you thought was 'real', was merely a production. Think The Truman Show.

Music & Bands we mentioned on the show:

• It's Been A While, Staind
• Amon Amarth
• Finger Eleven
• 3 Doors Down
• Creed

What we drank on the show:

• Kentucky Coffee: Bulleit Rye, coffee, brown sugar, water

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We discuss chapters 1 & 2 of Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola. 

Have you ever wondered why Christians do what they do for church every Sunday morning? Why do they “dress up” for church? Why does the pastor preach a sermon each week? Why do they have pews, steeples, and choirs? 

Most of what Christians do in present-day churches is rooted, not in the New Testament, but in pagan culture and rituals developed long after the death of the apostles.

What we ate on the show:

• Custom ding-dong cupcake by Scratch by Sarah

What we drank on the show:

• Refuge Bourbon Vanilla Honeycomb
• Banana Pudding Sipping Cream by Sugarlands Distilling Company
• Raw milk from River V Growers / Vincent Farms

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In this first RP date night episode, Nate and Celeste introduce an impactful book they read around 15-20 years ago when they first exited the UPC Church.

Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola examines a multitude of Christian church practices that have been accepted as 'gospel' or 'from the bible', when in reality, they were adopted from paganism. 

What we ate on the show:

• Custom cupcakes by Scratch by Sarah - chocolate with Baileys, and ding-dong

What we drank on the show:

• Refuge Bourbon Vanilla Honeycomb
• Refuge Bourbon Texas Love

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We wrap up our discussion with Kali J Banks regarding awareness, and how once you broaden your awareness, then your interpretation of scripture is beyond just surface level. When you go within yourself, you unlock the keys to the 'mystery' of the bible.

So often we give power and reverence to a church building, but God is within the most sacred 'church' = our body. God is within us, within our form. We are a tool for divine work, and as such, we need to know our power.

Check out his book, Awareness is Evolution.

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What does it mean to forgive? What does it mean to love yourself?

We speak with Kali J Banks about his book and what started him on the path to awareness. 

As within, so without.

Resources mentioned:

• Awareness is Evolution, by Kali J Banks

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We wrap up our interview with Ron in this 3rd episode by talking politics, the 'biggest religion on the planet'. 

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In this episode, Ron talks about growing up with feelings of not being accepted, or measuring up, and then refusing to tolerate those same feelings within the confines of religion. Nate shares that he believes true peace is found when you're able to just be who you are, and that begins with accepting yourself. 

As Ron says, "I'm a little bit enlightenment, and a little bit 'go f*ck yourself.'"

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Ron talks about being raised Methodist as a kid, and also going to Catholic mass with his grandmother. He became spiritually curious as he grew older, and found out one of his buddy's father was a born-again Christian. They invited him to their church where he attended for a while. From there, he attended a trinitarian 'holiness' full gospel church until he was in his early 20s and decided to leave the church for a period of time.

After he relocated from NY to TX, he met a former Pentecostal woman in Austin and they started attending a UPC church in the area. He stayed there about 7 years, and while there, met a Hebraic/messianic teacher. They became good friends, and then left the UPC to start a small group meeting.  But that wasn't all it was cracked up to be either....

Ron's cigar: JFR Lunatic 8"x80 ring

What we drank on the show:

• Java Jolt - created by Ron. 
  • Ron's version:
    • 1 shot bourbon (McFarland's Reserve from Total Wine)
    • 1 shot coffee liqueur (Javagave from Leanderthal Distilling from Total Wine)
    • 4 oz strong coffee
    • 1/2 oz dark amber maple syrup
    • 1 oz heavy cream
    • ice
    • Add bourbon, coffee liqueur, coffee, maple syrup & ice to cocktail shaker and shake vigorously. Add ice to a rocks glass and pour mixture over the top. Top w/heavy cream but don't stir.
  • Nate's substitutions to the above:
    • 1 shot bourbon (Bonfire Bourbon from College Station)
    • 1 shot coffee liqueur (Cayman Reef Premium Cold Brew Horchata Cream)
    • 4 oz Snickers flavored coffee from Keurig

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Nate and Mason wrap up the last of this series by finishing the last of the 9 satanic statements written in the 1960s by Anton LeVey, while weaving in politics and (ex)evangelicalism.

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Mason finishes reading the list of sins found on the church of satan's website. Nate shares more about attending the local pagan market. And then they move on to the 9 satanic statements written in the 1960s by Anton LeVey.

Resources mentioned:

• Prince - Super Bowl Halftime Show
• Polk County Pagan Market

What we drank on the show:

• Bulleit Frontier Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey

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Nate shares how he recently visited a local pagan market with various vendor booths set up - and for clarification, pagan doesn't mean blood sacrifices, but a rather broad spectrum of non-christians. 

There were many craftsmen present - wood workers, jewelry makers, bakers, food trucks and various other booths.  There was also a booth with members from the Houston church of satan (followers of the satanic bible by Anton LeVey). 

After reading the outrage on social media by christians who wandered in and discovered this, Nate decided to look into this church's belief beyond what the name would suggest. Pretty interesting and not what you'd think. Listen as Mason reads their bylaws...and sins.

Resources mentioned:

• Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand

What we drank on the show:

• Modelo Especial
• Pinnacle Whipped Vodka + Big Dan's Hemporium 50mg Shot of Pineapple Express
  • Shout out to Brian & Ryan with Big Dan's Hemporium! It was great to meet you at the Polk County Pagan Market :)

Some of the other vendors we met at the Polk County Pagan Market:

• Nae's Pink Market
• Fragrant Formulas
• The Bee's Knee's Apothecary
• Kut up Knives
• Crystal Moon Crystals & Gems
• Outlaw Designs

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The soul moves from one life to the next, wearing different 'spacesuits' each time, and death becomes equivalent with taking off a tight shoe.

Resources mentioned:

• Soul Boom, Rainn Wilson
• Becoming Nobody, Ram Dass
• Tribes, Seth Godin

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Happy 1st Birthday to Rettals' Pub! Join us as we talk about the past year plus plans for the next. We also manage to weave a bit of spirituality in and around laughs.

Mason shares about a recent road trip he and his wife just took to New Mexico. And just like in life, while the mountains were beautiful, sometimes the valleys were more desirable.

Want to recreate our birthday cocktail?

Birthday Cocktail Recipe:
1 oz Pinnacle Vodka Cake
1 oz Pinnacle Vodka Whipped
1.5 oz half & half
Pillsbury Funfetti Bold Purple Vanilla frosting

Dip cocktail glass in softened frosting, then in sprinkles. Add a dollop of frosting & some sprinkles to bottom of glass. Combine both vodka flavors + half & half in an ice-filled shaker and shake well. Strain into cocktail glass.

*Inspiration for this cocktail found at dailydishrecipes.com/birthday-cake-cocktails/
**show notes may include affiliate links

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We wrap up part 4 of listener questions by discussing that attachment brings suffering & pain, so your ego must 'die daily', as Paul said. If you've followed our podcast for a while, you'll find this is not a new topic, as many things circle back to this concept.

Resources mentioned:

1. The Zen Experience by Thomas Hoover
2. Buckland's Complete Book of Witchcraft by Raymond Buckland
3. Paths to God: Living the Bhagavad Gita by Ram Dass
4. The Complete Introduction to Magic by Julius Evola
5. The Doctrine of Awakening: The Attainment of Self-Mastery According to the Earliest Buddhist Texts by Julius Evola
6. Discovering Christian Witchcraft: A Beginner's Guide for Everyday Practice by Sara Raztresen

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We dive into part 3 of listener questions:

"Do souls actually choose a plan to incarnate and live a life of pure evil? To torture and rape and murder the innocent, to wreak unspeakable horrors and take delight in these things? Is this a sick, twisted version of "ordered steps"?

Or could it be the human spirit was rotten and overrode the soul's plan? Or maybe evil humans operate without a soul like NPCs?"

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We dive into part 2 of listener questions:

"The Bible makes the distinction several times between the soul and the spirit. Is the spirit our "human spirit", the fleshly part of us that has inherited DNA which defines our very characteristics? Can this human spirit make choices not in alignment with the soul's plan? (In church speak this would have been considered "out of the will of god").

I believe there are 2 distinct beings at play here during each incarnation. The soul. And the human spirit. I guess I'm struggling with the concept that the human has no choice but what an external, eternal entity who has 'possessed' it, decides."

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We received the below questions/comments from a listener:

I've always been very much an individual who believes in free will. That there are good and bad consequences to every decision I make. That I'm ultimately in charge of where my path leads.

You speak of "ordered steps", which is also referenced in scripture. This sounds like predestination, which eliminates personal choice. 

I've heard Dolores Cannon say that before your incarnation, you plan out your path with other players (ie your soul family), but while you're living said incarnation, you can change the plan. 

Many have compared each incarnation to a play where each soul plays a character according to a script. This script would be your "ordered steps". However, sometimes plays have improvisation, because an actor forgot the lines, or an actor had to quit and a substitute actor stepped in, or maybe an actor was funny and added his own dialogue, etc. 

How detailed is the soul's plan for said incarnation? Do you think it's like putting Dallas TX in Google maps, and then choosing the best route depending on what I need to accomplish on the trip? But a wreck or road construction or a last minute change could cause me to reroute. So while there are many ways to get to Dallas, there may be a "best" way that I can choose to take or not.

The Bible makes the distinction several times between the soul and the spirit. Is the spirit our "human spirit", the fleshly part of us that has inherited DNA which defines our very characteristics? Can this human spirit make choices not in alignment with the soul's plan? (In church speak this would have been considered "out of the will of god").

I believe there are 2 distinct beings at play here during each incarnation. The soul. And the human spirit. I guess I'm struggling with the concept that the human has no choice but what an external, eternal entity who has 'possessed' it, decides.

Along these same lines, do soul's actually choose a plan to incarnate and live a life of pure evil? To torture and rape and murder the innocent, to wreak unspeakable horrors and take delight in these things? Is this a sick twisted version of "ordered steps"

Or could it be the human spirit was rotten and overrode the soul's plan? Or maybe evil humans operate without a soul like NPCs?

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We discuss how its harder, but more rewarding, to work out your own spirituality (without it becoming legalism); how it's easy to follow someone else's laundry list of do's/don'ts & be spoon-fed their version of 'god' but it shortchanges our souls; that being surrounded by nature is its own kind of 'church'; and that sometimes you just need to be able to let a good 'curse word' out :)

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Amanda talks about dreams of past lives; her spiritual (supernatural) abilities, even as a small child, that were hidden rather than celebrated; her first invitation to attend a small group reading by a Medium, and how a beyond-the-grave apology brought her and her husband joy and peace rather than fear.

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We finally get to talk with Amanda!  

She talks about her exit from the UPC and all the cool stuff that were the catalysts of that as well as the peace found outside the UPC.

Let us know how we're doing or if you'd like to get a message to Amanda do so at https://rettals.pub/contact-us.  

You can also use that form to suggest topics, ask questions, or suggest spirits for us to sample.

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Nate, a capitalist, blames the state of the nation on the Boomer generation because of their unfettered consumption and by putting their own needs and desires ahead of all others.

Do you agree?  Disagree?  Let him know at https://rettals.pub/contact-us.  

You can also use that form to suggest topics, ask questions, or suggest spirits for us to sample.

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 Mason and Nate talk about how their view of God has changed since their awakening as well as not serving tyrants.

That said, how has your view of God changed? Let us know!

Also, if you have any questions, concerns, topic suggestions, alcohol suggestions go to https://rettals.pub/contact-us/ and fill out the form!

Étienne de la Boétie - The Politics of Obedience

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Does the body have a soul, OR does the soul have a body?

Resources mentioned:

• Soul Boom, by Rainn Wilson
• The Tibetan Book of the Dead on Amazon Gaia

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We talk high-control, fear-based methods employed by religious leaders, as well as the peddling of "miracles, magic, and prosperity" for money.

And we sprinkle in politics, current world events, health and diet.

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We kick off the new year with multiple topics.

1. If you strive to attain your highest purpose, the universe will align to that purpose. Choose the highest and best.

2. Is Christianity the cosplay of paganism?

3. Did aliens or some other higher intelligent life form create humanity on earth for the purpose of enslavement?

Resources mentioned on the show:

• Jordan Peterson: Chase the Best Version of Yourself
• Raymond Buckland: Buckland's Complete Book of Witchcraft
• Anton Parks: EDEN - The Sumerian Version of Genesis
• Ancient Aliens
• Enki & Enlil
• Billy Carson
• Alan Watts

**Correction: Enlil was the Annunaki brother who set himself up as a controlling God and, Enki was the Annunaki brother who wanted to help save humanity.

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Nate and Mason discuss extreme similarities between Pentecostalism and voodoo:

1. Speaking in tongues
2. Excessive shouting
3. Being possessed by their deity
4. Extreme physical response to said 'possession', i.e. writhing on the ground, uttering a different language, etc
5. Beating of drums (rhythmic beating elevates vibrations of the masses)

Resources mentioned on the show:

• Vinson Synan
• Pagan Pentecostalism: It's Roots: Sex, Sin & Slavery by Curtis Edwards
• Bashar channeled by Darryl Anka
• Kryon channeled by Lee Carroll

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Listener question: 

• "Reincarnation has been a common belief across cultures and religions for thousands of years. Why do modern Christians fight so hard against this concept?"

Nate answers this question with a single word: CONTROL

Nate and Mason discuss how their recently found belief in reincarnation affects their spirituality.

What we drank on the show:

• Texas Love Bourbon from The Refuge Steakhouse & Bourbon Bar

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We would like to thank each of you for listening!  We hope you all have a wonderful Christmas and a Happy and Safe New Year!  We look forward to another year of community with you.

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Nate and Mason discuss the idea of Samadhi. What is Samadhi? It's not something that is easily described because there are no real translations. 

The body wants comfort, and the mind wants knowledge. Samadhi is not running from pain, but also not running after pleasure. Be still.

One way it has been explained is the waking up from the illusion of self, separating the character from the actor from the individual. Think Neo swallowing the red pill and what happens after. 

Resources mentioned on the show: 

• Samadhi Movie, 2017 - Part 1 "Maya, the Illusion of the Self"
• Samadhi Movie, 2018 - Part 2 (It's Not What You Think)
• Samadhi Movie, 2021 - Part 3 "The Pathless Path"

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We discuss attachment and what that may mean (or not).

And that maybe we just need to 'be' rather than 'do', to let our present life unfold versus being attached to a specific outcome.

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Yep, we talk attachments again, and what it means to say 'I AM'.

Resources mentioned:

• Matt Kahn

What we drank on the show:

• Vanilla Honeycomb Bourbon from Refuge Steakhouse in The Woodlands

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We discuss the 7 chakras (or spiritual centers w/in the body), specifically the Root Chakra, which when imbalanced, can manifest as back pain, fatigue, digestive issues, anxiety & fearfulness.

Resources mentioned:

• Nicky Sutton
• Kundalini Meditation
• Complete Guide to the 7 Chakras & their Effects

What we drank on the show:

• True Love's First Kiss Bourbon from The Refuge in The Woodlands
• The Colombian Coffee

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We love you guys and are thankful for your presence listening to Rettals' Pub.

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We continue discussing the journey through life, and how each step leads to the next. And when your beliefs and ideology change, and seem to be in direct conflict with an earlier premise, it's best viewed as merely an evolution vs a contradiction.

We also talk gifts and how we were taught they are only tied to your religion. However, we believe when you're no longer in said religion, you STILL have your gift(s).

Resources mentioned:

• Tony Robbins, I Am Not Your Guru on Netflix

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Mason shares a quote from one of the Christian Orthodox Desert Fathers, Saint Theognostos:

"Do not try to embark on the higher forms of contemplation before you have achieved complete dispassion, and do not pursue what lies as yet beyond your reach. Do not pursue theology beyond the limits of your present state of development."

Resources mentioned in the show:

• Matt Kahn, Dissolving the Veil
• Many Lives, Many Masters by Brian L Weiss - The True Story of a Prominent Psychiatrist, His Young Patient, and the Past-Life Therapy That Changed Both Their Lives

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On the back of the previous episode, "50 Shades of Pray", we address a listener question.

Erin asks if we think God is a male entity.  

Listen as we attempt to convey our thoughts on the subject, likely bordering on what most consider to be 'sacrilege'.

And then somehow, we end up right back in the middle of 'sexualized christianity'.

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Our producer, Duke, came up with this awesome, and fitting, episode title. No, this is not satire.

WTF??  Who knew there was such a thing as the sexualization of God by evangelicals?!?!?

Don't take our word for it - listen to these cringe-worthy excerpts taken from actual pentecostal sermons. Doubtful this was only an 18+ live church audience.

What we drank on the show:

• Red Stripe

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Erin asks Mason: “Since one of your past lives was female, does that change your views on gender?”

Listen to Nate and Mason's take on this often hot-button topic for many.

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