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We welcome New Testament Professor Lynn Huber back to the podcast to discuss how gender switching and the queering of the characters are a central crucial message of the Book of Revelation. In her amazing "Revelation: A Wisdom Commentary," Dr. Huber shows how the author of Revelation, John uses gender to describe, oppose, and mock Roman societal norms. We focus a few passages, such as the Lion of Judah vs. the Wounded Lamb in chapter 5, the Woman Clothed in the Sun vs. the Dragon in chapter 13, the over-the-top everyone-including-the-kitchen-sink Beast and its phallic imagery in chapter 14, and the great prostitute of Babylon in chapter 17, to tell us about John's motivations and our modern feminist interpretations of Revelation. With the war in Iran and the conversation about end times theology, Revelation is in the news and in our conversation. Join us for an insightful, uplifting, and fun discussion.

Previous Episode with Lynn: Season 1, Episode 57, August 9, 2025 "Revelation Queerness with Professor Lynn Huber

Useful Resources:
"Revelation: A Wisdom Commentary" by Lynn R. Huber and Gail R. O'Day, 2023

Good use of the Lion and Lamb images:
https://characterofgod.org/lion-of-the-tribe-of-judah/

Bad use of the Lion and Lamb image: https://hopespringministries.org/2010/12/01/the-lamb-and-the-lion/

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In this episode, we explore the nature of God through the story of Moses receiving the law on Mount Sinai, highlighting God's willingness to listen, change, and negotiate rather than rule as a dictator. As an affirming Christian and PCUSA ministry leader, I delve into how this narrative illustrates inclusive Christianity and challenges traditional views of God's immutability and impassibility. We journey through detailed Bible interpretation to understand God's relationship with humanity, emphasizing that faith in the modern Christian context involves partnership and dialogue with God. Discover how these ancient stories inform contemporary spirituality and the embodiment of God in Jesus Christ during the Transfiguration. This discussion aims to deepen understanding of an open, affirming faith embracing the messiness and complexity of scripture and life.

Previous episodes: 
Calvinism vs. Reality: Determinism and Probablity, S1E17, Jan 18, 2025
Theology of Nonsense: Questioning Systematic Theology and Calvinism, S1E73, Nov 29, 2025
Exploring Free Will and Complexity: Hope for a Modern Faith, S2E7, Feb 14, 2026

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In this heartfelt and affirming year-end homily, based on Titus 2:11-14 and Isaiah, we explore themes central to affirming Christianity and the inclusive nature of God's salvation. As a PCUSA ministry, this sermon emphasizes that the love and salvation offered through Jesus Christ is meant for everyone — not just a select few. The birth of Christ as Emanuel, "God with Us," highlights the inclusive spirit of modern Christian faith and spirituality that embraces all people. Reflecting on a challenging year, this message brings comfort, hope, and reassurance that "You are enough and it will be OK." Join us as we discuss affirming, inclusive Christianity and how embracing this understanding can foster spiritual growth and healing in our communities.

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In this episode, we dive into Mary’s central but often misunderstood role in Christianity, exploring the themes of affirming Christianity and inclusive faith perspectives. While traditional views focus on Mary's purity, both Catholic and Protestant interpretations often miss the deeper significance of her story. Struggling with the dogma of the Virgin Birth, we discuss its historicity, theological implications, and how it has affected women over time. This Christmas episode reveals how Mary's story symbolizes a transfer of power, highlighting Joseph's obedience that prioritizes mercy over law. We also explore how Mary’s description as Parthenos connects to Greek mythology and what this means for modern Christian faith. Join us for a fresh, affirming interpretation that shows God's loving presence as Emmanuel through Mary and Jesus.

#virginmary #parthenos #joseph #christmas #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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In this insightful episode, I welcome my longtime friend and mentor, Rev. Jeff Sievert, a respected leader within the PCUSA ministry known for his commitment to inclusive Christianity and affirming worship practices. Having been my pastor and guide for 25 years, Jeff shares his extensive experience designing beautiful, liturgical worship services that resonate deeply in modern Christian faith communities.

We discuss the ongoing evolution of worship, including the recent history of the worship wars and the rediscovery of liturgical traditions by younger generations seeking authentic and inclusive Christian experiences. Jeff offers valuable perspectives on how affirming Christianity can be expressed through worship and how the church can embrace diverse voices in Bible interpretation and practice.

Join us as we explore the future of worship in an inclusive PCUSA ministry context and learn how to create worship services that are not only beautiful but deeply meaningful for all believers.

#worship #liturgy #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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In this episode, we explore the trajectory of the Emergent Church movement within modern Christian faith, examining its promises, challenges, and ongoing relevance. As an affirming Christianity and PCUSA ministry perspective, we discuss influential voices like Diana Butler Bass, Brian McLaren, and Phyllis Tickle, alongside the rise of patriarchal movements and the contrasting growth of inclusive Christian traditions such as the Eastern Orthodox and Episcopal churches. We reflect on the socio-political factors like Trumpism that have affected church dynamics and consider whether a truly inclusive and affirming emergent church can thrive in today's religious landscape. Join us as we navigate the complex intersections of Bible interpretation, modern faith, and the quest for an inclusive Christianity.

#emergentchurch #liturgy #liturgicalchurch #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

Reference:
"The Great Emergence: How Christianity is Changing and Why" by Phyllis Tickle, 2012.

The Great Reformation
The Great Emergence

Quadrilateral
Liturgists - Cath, EO
Social Justice Christians - PC, UMC, UCC
Renewalists - Charismatics
Conservatives - Fundamentalists

Outer Ring - Traditionalists
Next Ring - Re-traditioning
Next inner - Progressives
Inner Ring - Hyphenateds

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All major religions explore the concept of ego death, or transcendence, with Buddhism being a clear example. Within the context of affirming Christianity and inclusive Christian theology, this idea is foundational and deeply present in the writings of Christian mystics over centuries. In this episode, we delve into the concept of kenosis—the self-emptying nature of Christ as described in Philippians 2:7—and how it serves as the core of modern Christian faith and spirituality. We examine how the cross symbolizes this ego death, a message often obscured by the legacy of triumphalism and imperialism in American Christianity, including challenges faced within PCUSA ministry. Further, the episode contrasts Catholic and Protestant views on the cross and crucifix, enriching our understanding of scripture and spirituality in inclusive Christianity today.

#cross #crucifix #kenosis #egodeath #apotheia #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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In this episode, we deeply explore the challenges of systematic theology and the problematic aspects of Calvinism. As an advocate for affirming Christianity and inclusive Christian faith, I share my skepticism about traditional theology, especially how it can sometimes be used to control rather than uplift believers. Drawing on influential works like Richard Rohr's "The Universal Christ" and D. Stephen Long's "The Sovereignty of God Debate," this conversation critiques rigid biblical interpretations and advocates for a theological approach grounded in loving grace rather than authoritarianism. Whether you're questioning classical theology or seeking a more open and affirming Christianity, this episode offers honest reflection on modern Christian faith and the complexities of Bible interpretation. 

#systematictheology #calvinism #opentheology #processtheology #theology #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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Explore the importance of the temple in the biblical narrative and its impact on modern Christian faith in this episode of the Affirming Christianity Podcast. Discover how the temple's role shaped Judaism and how Jesus' prophetic words in Luke 21:5-8 reflect the spread of the Jesus movement beyond Jerusalem. As a Presbyterian USA minister committed to inclusive Christianity, we delve into how these themes challenge our views on orthodoxy, reform, and the spreading of the word. Join us for a thoughtful Bible interpretation that honors all voices within the faith and the ongoing journey of affirming Christianity today.

#temple #oldtestament #newcovenant #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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Affirming Christianity invites us to explore the true meaning of love through the lens of 1 Corinthians 13:4-7. This episode unpacks how Bible interpretation of this key passage reveals the heart of an inclusive Christian spirituality that often contrasts with exclusive or manipulative understandings of love. We discuss the impact of gaslighting within the church and why this passage is pivotal for modern Christian faith and the affirmation of LGBTQ+ inclusion. Join us as we dive deep into understanding why love, central to both Scripture and affirming Christianity, is often misunderstood—and how embracing its full meaning can transform our ministry and personal spiritual growth.

#love #lovenothate #lgbtq #inclusion #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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Welcome to the Real Bible Rob podcast. I am delighted to welcome Charmella today. She speaks on TikTok about American history, religion, race, and politics in such an insightful way. What really caught my attention was her realism about our moment coupled with a sense of optimism. With all the terrifying changes we are going through, how can we see any of this change as good? With old and young alike pining for days that never were, can we grasp what's really happening. It's reckoning. Charmella said something that blew my mind, "The only way out is through." The reckoning is uncomfortable, but it's necessary. We have been avoiding for too long and we need to change. I've quoted Charmella in several sermons and a few podcasts. So I really wanted to speak with her here. 

References:

"People of the Lie: The Hope for Healing Human Evil" by M. Scott Peck, 1985
"A Peoples History of the United States" by Howard Zinn, 1980
"The Third Reconstruction" by Rev. Dr. William Barber, 2016
"Shalom and the Community of Creation: An Indigenous Vision" by Dr. Randy Woodley, 2012

#deconstruction #reconstruction #peopleshistory #journalism #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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I have been shocked at how Jesus has been used in recent years to cover hate. I recently said, "The Jesusing of Charlie Kirk is neither about Jesus nor Charlie Kirk." His assassination and raising him to be a martyr is completely genuine for some and completely cynical for most. And we know this by how Christian nationalists have latched on to him. The casual use of Christianity to hurt people who aren't Christians, or even Christians of a certain type is very old. But it is shocking to see how this old tool of ignorance is pulled out as a weapon all the time. So why are Christians so mean nowadays and so willing to toss aside the principles of Jesus for the principles of power? I offer three parallels which are at once comforting and frightening. One is the Second Great Awakening and the massive rise of spirituality of the era. It was both the source of great good and tremendous harm. And it was a movement primarily based on fear, especially of slave rebellion and war. The next one is the Cold War in which there are so many parallels. Author Tom Nichols recently asked, "What happened to the fear of the apocalypse of nuclear war? The weapons are still there." Finally, I will talk again about Rapture. The rapture narrative and its popularity even though it is not biblical tells us everything about which Jesus we are following. 

Tom Nichols article: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2025/10/kathryn-bigelow-house-of-dynamite/684569/

#charliekirk #martyr #heathercoxrichardson #jesus #pharisee #taxcollector #zacchaeus #christiannationalism #revival #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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In this episode, we delve into the complex interpretation of the story of the woman caught in adultery, a passage often misunderstood and misused by Christians. As part of my work in affirming Christianity and inclusive Christian faith, I explore how this woman's story has been subjected to abuse—both in the original context and through modern misapplication. We examine the history of this passage, including its selective inclusion in the Gospel of John, and challenge the traditional evangelical use of Jesus' words "Go and sin no more" as a tool for shame rather than mercy. There are many verses that show that God's mercy is not conditional on repentance. Join me, a Presbyterian USA minister committed to thoughtful Bible interpretation and spiritual growth, as we reframe this verse to uphold compassion and reject evangelical cruelty. This episode offers fresh insights into modern Christian faith and encourages a more inclusive and affirming approach to scripture.

The woman caught in adultery was an abused woman. And we keep just abusing her. And it is time to stop doing it. We have no idea why she was singled out and why the man was not also accused, but this tells a lot about the motives of the Pharisees in the story. I review the history of the passage, which was not part of the Gospel of John in the early church. Verse 11 where Jesus tells the woman to "Go and sin no more" is used by Christians today to shame people and to hold sin over people's heads. But it doesn't make sense for Jesus to say this as admonishment rather than an act of mercy. There are many verses that show that God's mercy is not conditional on repentance. To use this verse as admonishment is essentially abusing the woman again. It is an act of evangelical cruelty. I explain why we must reframe the way this verse is used. 

Previous episode: S1 E19 Jan 24 2025 The Abused Woman in John 8:1-11

Theories of why Jesus said Go and sin no more to the woman:

1. Modern evangelical: Admonishment. He meant her individual sin had caused the situation and that the way to redemption is repentance and renouncing her sin. Doesn't fit the paralytic man story.
2. Ancient contextual: Protection. He told her to stay away from the abuser (the unknown man) and the Pharisees, because they were using her. Does fit the paralytic man story.
3. Textual Negotiation: Compromise. This verse was added to allow John 8:1-11 to be included in the canon. Church Fathers feared the story was too merciful and that adding the admonishment would be a clear rebuke of her sin. Classical slut shaming. This does not explain the paralytic man story.
4. Community reconciliation: He told her to return to purity. Continuous and general admonition for all people in Christ. Makes sense for Jewish purity laws, but contextually weird because it is said only to the two most pathetic characters in the Gospels.   

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The "gospel of peace" in Ephesians 6:15: How can this sit in the midst of descriptions of weapons and warfare? This is the paradox of Spiritual Warfare. It is not against flesh and blood but it is against rulers and principalities. It is ideas over brute force. I go in and out of love for various scriptures. I spent years fighting against the terrible use of Ephesians 6, especially to support slavery, patriarchy and Christian Nationalism which are inextricably linked. But whenever this happens and I am compelled to do a deep dive into the scripture, I fall in love with it again. Ephesians 6 has done this for me once again. Submission of slaves in the household codes must be seen in the context of Spiritual Warfare. Slave uprisings were a huge fear in ancient Rome, with over 30% of the population being slaves. But insurrections always end bloody. Spiritual Warfare is akin to Civil Rights marches. Active, but non-violent. Good trouble as John Lewis said. The change in society that lasts. The warfare is for justice and peace, not with devils and end times. Paul spoke against the extinction of the movement. Recalls the temptation of Jesus for expediency and cheap grace. There is a lot of debate about the sword being an offensive or defensive weapon. Hebrews 4:12 may give us a clue.

References:
Sandra Glahn, "Nobody's Mother", 2023.
Lynn Cohick, "Letter to the Ephesians (NICNT)", 2020.

#spiritualwarfare #bible #sworddrills #civilrights #nonviolentresistance #resist #nokings #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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The best antidote for a nightmare is to turn the lights on. When you screamed in the middle of the night, nothing was more comforting than mother coming in cradling you in her arms. We’ve been living with a 2400 year long nightmare of Satan and devils. It’s time to turn the lights on and dispel the myths that have propped up religious bullies for so long. Satan was a vague Hebrew word meaning Adversary but it didn’t take on a personality until it became The Satan in the Persian period and then happily lapped up by the New Testament writers with heavy Greek mythological influences. How did such a minor character in the Old Testament become a central character in the New Testament, especially in modern Christian churches? Is there evil in the world? Yes. Is there a hierarchy of evil beings tempting and tormenting you? No, they vanish when you flip the lights on. 

#satan #lucifer #devil #hell #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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There's a common question among pastors: "What's the most unbiblical thing your congregation believes is biblical but isn't?" Some are quite funny, but I think the most harmful one is the Rapture. It is a theology developed by John Nelson Darby in 1833 based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the Greek word "harpazo." Modern dispensationalists (Darby's theology) claim harpazo proves the Rapture is true. I discuss the use of this word. I also discuss why Paul used the imagery of Jesus meeting people in the air in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. There is nothing that says this is about separating believers from non-believers, or the saved from the unsaved. That was entirely fabricated by mashing this verse with Matthew 24:40-41 and Revelation 20:4-6. I also discuss the great harm to civic life and the environment Rapture theology has done. It is the main source for Christian Zionism, anti-environmentalism, and anti-intellectualism in American evangelicalism. 

#rapture #harpazo #endtimes #saved #unsaved #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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Einstein famously said, "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."  This is a topic I am comfortable with. Why? Because I studied Thermodynamics and Randomness in college and I have been pondering it ever since. If you know how these work in biology and nature, then you quickly realize that all the arguments of "Creation Science" are nonsense. Rather than debating point by point, which is pointless with creationists who are driven by ideology and not science, I discuss the scientific method and the faithful use of scripture. Someday we will find strong evidence of life on Mars or Europa or Enceladus and then we will be confronted with another milestone where human beings on Earth are not at the center of the universe. So discussing who God is and our relationship with faith must always face the reality of nature.

Note: For my biochemistry friends, I did a pretty lousy job describing Gibbs energy. Please accept my apologies. 

#evolution #genesis #lifeonearth #originoflife #science #thermodynamics #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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One way to tell how people approach religion is to express your admiration for another belief. I certainly admire Judaism, not just in the way of supersession like more Christians, but as a way of getting to know God. Over the years I have become much more aware of Islam and more recently Hinduism. But none of these impacted me like getting to know more about Buddhism, through great authors and discussion. I can confidently say that the Buddha saved my faith in Jesus. This may be offensive to you or at least incongruous. For me it hasn't been a passing fad in open-mindedness, but it has rooted deeply, because there is no conflict between Buddhist thought and Christianity. Buddhism is not a theistic faith. Of course there are Buddhist who are theistic, but it is not a requirement as it is in Christianity. In this episode, I discuss how I came to understand this, how it challenged me in a way I needed it to and how I found compatibility and peace. I have always been ecumenically minded, but my experience has opened my heart to a deeper appreciation for the sharing of faiths. 

References:
Charlotte Joko Beck, "Nothing Special: Living Zen", 1993
Pema Chödrön, "Comfortable with Uncertainty", 2003
David Brazier, "The Feeling Buddha", 1997
Thich Nhat Hanh, "Living Buddha, Living Christ", 1995

#buddhism #christianity #zen #ecumenism #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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I'm excited to welcome Rev. Rebecca Craig to the Real Bible Rob podcast today! Rebecca is a pastor in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, an Artist, and an Author. She has a terrific new book called "Through Her Eyes" telling the stories of women in the Bible in a creative new way. It gives a narrative of 26 different women from their perspective and then several insightful study questions for each. It's a fascinating approach to understanding their stories. 

Reference:
"Through Her Eyes: Biblical Women Speak" by Rebecca J. Craig, 2025.
"Once Upon a Nightmare: Through the looking glass of narcissistic abuse" by Rebecca J. Craig, 2024.
"Womanist Midrash, Vols 1 & 2" by Dr. Wilda C. Gafney, 2017 & 2024.
"The Prophetic Imagination" by Walter Brueggemann, 2nd Ed. 2001

#womeninministry #womenpastor #biblicalwomen #elca #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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My New Testament professor Dr. Nijay Gupta has written much about Galatians and is endlessly fascinated by Paul's letter. I didn't exactly understand why this angry letter was so important. Like many Christians, I usually favored Ephesians and Philippians, maybe Timothy, but Galatians? Why? It is pivotal as an early window into the first major crisis in the early church in which Paul had to intervene: the relationship between Jewish and Gentile Christians. My friend Rev. Adina Meyer just finished a series of sermons on Galatians, so she is the perfect person to discuss our changing views of the letter and why it is so important.

References: 
Nijay K. Gupta, "Galatians - The Story of God Commentary", 2023.
Scot McKnight, "James and Galatians - New Testament Everyday Bible Study", 2022.
Brigette Kahl,  "Galatians Re-Imagined", 2010
J Louis Martyn, "Galatians - The Anchor Bible series", 1997

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Something’s seriously wrong with America and we all know it. What was the long path toward equality of men and women, of the races in civil rights, of religious people integrating progress into theology has faced ever-increasing headwinds. In many ways we can rejoice especially when we remember how women and minorities were treated in the 1960s and 1970s. I’ve spoken about the rise of the religious right during the late 70s and on into the Reagan era. Much of that was overt but they were operating on two levels and the groundwork was quietly being laid for the backlash we see now. It’s really coming out now in all the talk about James Dobson and John MacArthur, who recently passed away. But the dark under-belly of Doug Wilson and John Piper haven't yet received enough attention. The war on women’s rights and the subversive war on history especially the retelling of slavery and genocide have yet to be told enough. The “war on woke” and DEI are really about wrestling Christianity back to the dark-ages. The church must oppose it if it is to survive. As a favorite tiktoker of mine @ohmellyeah says “the only way is through, not around.” This is a cause for optimism. 

* Pamela Brown inverviewed Douglas Wilson on CNN in which he said “Women are people who people come out of.”

#jamesdobson #douglaswilson #johnmacarthur #johnpiper #paulwasher #fundamentalism #slavery #christiannationalism #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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Let's talk about 17th century England. Why? Because so much about American Protestant beliefs and culture come from it. The King James Bible was a political stake in the ground. The Westminster Confession was an Act of Parliament during the English Civil War. It was a compromise between Anglicans and Presbyterians to oppose radical Puritans and Catholics. The 1689 Second London Confession legitimized the Baptists as a result of the Act of Toleration passed by Parliament as part of the Glorious Revolution. The creation of these documents was incredibly political. It harkens back to the creation of the Nicene Creed, the Council of Chalcedon, and the formation of the biblical canon in the early church. I discuss why people still look at these periods with rose-colored glasses, and how the propaganda of those times still deeply affects us today. I won't call it a sham, but there's lots of power politics and chicanery in Christian history. It was always there, and it is still here. There was never a purer period in the history of the church than today. 

I made an error about the Three Forms of Unity: They are the Heidelberg Catechism (1563), Belgic Confession (1561), and the Canons of Dort (1618-1619). These are the basic documents for the Dutch Reformed Church. These informed the creation of the Westminster Confession of Faith (1646-1649).

#christianhistory #KingJamesBible #KJV #WesterminsterConfession #WestminsterStandards #EnglishCivilWar #1689Confession #GloriousRevolution #Theology #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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Does God express emotions? This is a more central question than it seems. It’s a significant clue to how you see the sovereignty of God, whether God changes, and whether God is affected by prayer. If God shows the emotion of regret, does that mean God is weak? To illustrate these differences, I do a deep dive into two verses that feature the Hebrew word Neecham. The theological bias of Bible translations are revealed in what words are used for Neecham: repent, relent, regret, feel sorrow, grieve, have compassion or comfort. I review the implications of these in two different passages. 

#ESV #NRSV #bible #calvinism #hebrew #edmondspres #pcusa

Jeremiah 42:10
ESV If you will remain in this land, then I will build you up and not pull you down; I will plant you, and not pluck you up; for I relent of the disaster that I did to you.

NRSVue If you will only remain in this land, then I will build you up and not pull you down; I will plant you and not pluck you up, for I am sorry for the disaster that I have brought upon you.

RSV If you will remain in this land, then I will build you up and not pull you down; I will plant you, and not pluck you up; for I repent of the evil which I did to you.

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In this episode, we delve into the challenging questions surrounding free will and its role in inclusive Christianity. As an affirming Christian and PCUSA minister, I explore the intersection of modern science, theology, and spirituality, particularly how complex systems and uncertainty in physics offer new hope beyond determinism. We examine the surprising alignment between extreme Calvinist theology and reductionist scientific views, both of which challenge traditional ideas of free will. Drawing from notable works and recent physics discoveries, this discussion aims to deepen our understanding of Bible interpretation and spirituality within a modern Christian faith context. Join us as we seek a fresh perspective on free will that embraces complexity and affirms an inclusive Christianity.

Resources:
"The Truth Physics Can No Longer Ignore
The fundamental nature of living things challenges assumptions that physicists have held for centuries."
By Adam Frank, in The Atlantic, December 15, 2025

Brian Greene, "Until the End of Time: Mind, Matter, and Our Search for Meaning in an Evolving Universe", 2020.

Margaret Wheatley, " Who Do We Choose To Be?, Second Edition: Facing Reality, Claiming Leadership, Restoring Sanity", 2023. 

Wikipedia article on "Complex Systems": The 2021 Nobel Prize in Physics was awarded to Syukuro Manabe, Klaus Hasselmann, and Giorgio Parisi for their work to understand complex systems.

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Today I am excited to welcome Elle, who goes by @LiterallyTheBible on TikTok and YouTube. She is reading the Bible from cover to cover as a non-religious gal. Her approach to Bible reading chapter by chapter is so insightful and refreshing. I've been really impressed with her analysis, her questions, and her response to comments. I think it is a great example for how we can approach Bible reading. Now that she has made it through the 50 chapters of Genesis and now into Exodus, I will ask her about her impressions and about the feedback she has been getting.

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I am thrilled to welcome Dr. Lynn Huber, Professor of Religious Studies at Elon University and an expert on the Book of Revelation. I have been following her on TikTok, and I was intrigued by her commentary about queer perspectives on Revelation. She brings a sense of excitement and love for the book, which many people approach with a sense of fear and retribution. I don't shy away from Revelation like many Presbyterians do, and I have preached several times about the many ways to interpret it. So, I was excited to hear about Dr. Huber's work and really wanted to interview her. 

References: 
"Revelation: Wisdom Commentary" by Lynn Huber and Gail R. O'Day
Robyn Whitaker, "Revelation for Normal People"
Greg Carey, "Rereading Revelation"
Barbara Rossing, "Rapture Exposed"

We also spoke about these biblical scholars: Candida Moss, Sandra Glahn, Lynn Cohick, Luke Timothy Johnson, Sarah Emanuel, Mitzi Smith, Steve Gregg, Eric Thomas, Yii-Jan Lin

#revelation #rapture #queer #lgbtq #queerchristian #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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Christians love Replacement. Replacing Judaism with the New Covenant. Replacing the Jewish people as the Chosen people of God. Replacing Islam in the Holy Land during the Crusades. In America, replacing indigenous people with white Christian people. Replacing native religions around the world with missionaries. Lately, replacing the words of Jesus with nationalism and political tribalism. It has a long history, when the Roman Empire subsumed Christianity into the empire. Later, the Gospel of Jesus was replaced with theologies like Penal Substitutionary Atonement theory as a singular theology of Protestants. Hebrews 8:10-13 explicitly replaces the Old Covenant with the New Covenant by quoting Jeremiah 31:31-34 verbatim. Old Testament scholars Walter Brueggemann and John Goldingay warn that we should be careful to not engage in supersessionism, or replacement theology. I define supersessionism and offer a balanced approach that honors both the Hebrew Scriptures and their integration into Christian theology. 

#newcovenant #supersessionist #replacementtheology #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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People use the narrow gate metaphor that Jesus used in the Sermon on the Mount to feed their persecution complex and to exclude others. I frequently come across egregious misrepresentations of these passages. Often spoken with cult-like intentions, it is always meant to instill fear. Was this Jesus's intent? Was he using fear to encourage people to follow him instead of the religious leaders of his time? That was certainly part of it, but it also gave comfort to an oppressed people by offering them an alternative to the strict application of the law or just going along with the bullies. These passages are hard to consider because these verses are some of the clearest examples of where audience and context matter. It is why simplistic interpretations are so easily weaponized by people today. Nuance and context are hard for many Christians. I discuss these verses and compare it to the seemingly contradictory when Jesus said, "My yoke is easy and my burden is light," in Matthew 11:30. 

#salvation #narrowgate #widepath #yokeiseasy #jesussaves #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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I am delighted to welcome Jeremy Steele to the podcast today. I love his content on TikTok so much. He reached out to creators with podcasts. I jumped at the chance to interview him, and he graciously agreed!

Church attendance statistics are notoriously difficult to decipher, but people latch onto the latest reports as signs of a turnaround or that their favorite segment is gaining new interest. Recently, Churchtrac showed an increase in Millennial attendance led by men. A slight uptick in fundamentalist evangelical churches engagement appears to be responsible for this. Is it a continuation of the young restless reformed movement?

In my public-facing ministry and my work within the Presbyterian Church USA, I'm regularly told that my church is dying because it is "woke." Young men say they've left my church for more fundamentalist churches. It is always about LGBTQ affirmation and women in ministry, and not really about Jesus. For every one of them, however, I hear from at least ten others who say they will never go to church again because the church is hateful and hypocritical. So I ask, why then aren't fundie churches growing by leaps and bounds, rather than just attracting people who left mainline churches? Where will people turned off by the church go? 

 See Jeremy's links at https://jeremy-steele.com/ , including his podcasts, TikTok and other resources. 
You can join Jeremy's community at https://www.patreon.com/skepticpastor 

#jeremysteele #digitalchurch #liturgicalworship #emergingchurch #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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How can you justify cruelty as a Christian? It has a very long tradition, from the Crusades to Slavery and Jim Crow to Mass Deportations today. These were all and are still perpetuated and justified by Bible believing Christians. This justification and hypocrisy is the main critique of Christianity. How can a religion that exhorts love and kindness be so unloving and unkind? Simple, just redefine what love and kindness are, and voila, you can justify anything. This is exactly what is happening with the current discussions about "Empathy is Sin." I have spoken frequently about hyper-Calvinists like John Piper, who do this redefinition by saying that empathy is not in scripture. In this episode, I discuss the origins of the word empathy and why it is considered invalid by some people. Then I describe the reason we needed to adopt the word empathy in English. Next, I explore the Hebrew word "rachamim" and the Greek word "parakaleo," discussing how they are often used to describe something closer to empathy than just mercy or compassion. 

#rachamim #parakaleo #empathy #compassion #mercy #empathyissin #charliekirk #tpusa #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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The Church is in desperate need of Reform. Which direction should we go? Rediscovering doctrines of the past? Reforming our doctrines for a new era? There is a lot of disagreement about what is needed. I argue that we must do both.  

The motto of the Presbyterian Church USA is "Ecclesia Reformata Semper Reformanda" which is Latin for "The Church reformed, always reforming." Which has been quoted in different forms and cherished by Reformed Christians since the Dutch theologian Jodocus van Lodenstein wrote it in the 1670s. Swiss theologian Karl Barth revived and popularized the term in 1947 harkening back to St. Augustine. But that's where the agreement ends. 

Conservative Presbyterians see it as reexamining and seeking doctrinal purity, confirming the long-held myth that the Reformation was primarily about recapturing a long-lost purity in the church that  Catholics had corrupted. 

Conversely, most PCUSA people see it as a natural part of the ongoing revelation of the church and that God brings us to new understandings of the Gospel. This is most clearly exhibited in the nearly 300-year gap between the Westminster Standards of 1649 and the 20th-century confessions. I ask what happened in that 300 years? And why were attempts for a new confession rejected? I describe why this is particularly important now. The last century from the rise of fascism in the 1930s to the wholehearted evangelical Christian embrace of right-wing nationalism in our era shows that the church is in desperate need of reform again. 

#refomed #reformation #semperreformanda #karlbarth #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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Whenever you ask whether God changes or that God learns, It is usually met with a resounding "No!" But then you must ask, what is the point of prayer? When you look at scripture, it says explicitly many times that God changes. "But God knows everything" goes the reasoning. So most people have to do logical backflips to make omniscience work with free will and change. So did God make a giant mistake? Why does God keep making new agreements, Covenants with His people? There a several schools of thought on this and we must wade through millennia of dogma to have this make sense. We have already determined that God can't predetermine the future. So then, does God know all possible outcomes? I offer several ways to think about it differently. As Richard Rohr says, Creation is ongoing. God is never done creating. Creation is change and relationship is with Creation is God's main goal in scripture. So yes, it is irrefutable that God changes.

Reference: "The Universal Christ" by Richard Rohr

#omniscience #godchanged #jeremiah #exodus #immutability #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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For many Romans 8 is the essential chapter for understanding God’s purpose in the Gospel message. While I don’t think that was necessarily Paul’s purpose to be all-encompassing, it can be a great guide for us. N.T. Wright has said, that if he had only one chapter of the New Testament to take with him, it would be Romans 8. Unfortunately, it is also used for great harm. One commenter said that she rejects the “suffering kink” that many evangelicals lay on scripture. It’s part of a pattern in translations like the ESV and NIV that reveal the projection of dominance and trauma on our images of God. Dr. Beverly Gaventa says that the slave responds with fear while the heir responds with mutuality. I think this is the direction we need to move in Christianity. 

Beverly Roberts Gaventa “Romans: A Commentary” 2024.

#evangelical #theology #romans #esv #niv #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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The book of Romans carries so much theological weight that it’s hard to see Paul’s reasoning and technique through it. Fortunately, there’s been a wealth of new scholarship and research on it that it’s freeing the text from its Lutheran and Calvinist shackles. You can spend a lifetime diving into details but I will focus on three areas that highlight the new research:  the contrast and purpose of Chapters 1&2 and why they must always be read together, Chapter 3 and atonement theory, and Chapters 12, 14, and 16 which hint at why Chapters 1-3 are probably not about systematic theology like we think. 

Notes: hilasterion (ἱλαστήριον) also refers to the Seat of Mercy as well as the covering or place of forgiveness. Jews celebrate Yom Kippur as the Day of Atonement. This is followed by "through" or "by" faith (διὰ τῆς πίστεως) in the genitive, instead of "because of" faith in the accusative. 

References:
Beverly Roberts Gaventa “Romans: A Commentary” 2024.
Nijay K. Gupta & John K. Goodrich, Eds, “The Beginning of Paul’s Gospel: Theological Explorations in Romans 1-4” 2023. 

#romans #atonement #theology #freedom #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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Join me on the Real Bible Rob podcast as I welcome Pastor Bethany Nass Cseh, co-pastor of Arcata United Methodist Church and Catalyst Church Humboldt. In this episode, we dive into her inclusive and affirming approach to ministry that centers on a Jesus-centered faith. Pastor Bethany shares her unique storytelling style that brings the stories of Jesus to life in an accessible way, encouraging spiritual growth and deeper understanding through Bible interpretation. Additionally, she discusses her experiences as a foster and adoptive parent and the inspiration behind her books "Stepping Into Advent" and "Stepping Into Lent," which provide daily reflections driving spiritual reflection during key Christian seasons. Whether you're exploring inclusive Christianity or seeking insights into modern Christian faith and spirituality, this episode offers heartfelt perspectives and practical inspiration.

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Today I have a special guest Maria Hearing. Maria is a dear friend, classmate, teacher, Hebrew reading partner, and leader. Maria has done deep research on the book of Esther, and she has written scholarly papers on the narrative and genres of the story. The story is foundational to the myth of the Jewish nation, but it also tells us so much about patriarchy and the strength of ancient women in unexpected ways. Is Esther a comedy or a horror story? Is the relationship of the King and Esther about romance or rape? Maria shows us how we react so differently depending on our vantage points.

Esther as horror reference: Dr. Erika Dunbar, https://bibleandcriticaltheory.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Ericka-Dunbar-FINAL.pdf

#esther #vashti #biblicalstudies #trafficking #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa 

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Do you have an image of a traditional past that was better? Kids respected their parents. People had manners. They respected the law. Neighbors watched out for each other. Not like these wicked times, so the reasoning goes. It seems harkening to a mythical part is an innate part of being human. Since religious people strongly tend toward being traditionalists, this myth is especially true in Christianity. But it’s not true that times were better, just different, and it often hampers progress. I discuss the theory that the main division in ancient Israel was between settled farmers and mobile herders, and this defined their religions. I describe the central challenge in today’s mainline church and its inability to integrate younger people into the church. Finally, I mention why I think it is valuable to read the Gospel of John before embarking on reading the whole Bible, starting with Genesis. 

#originalism #biblicalhistory #ancientisrael #ancientjudah #gospelofjohn #genesis #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

Urbanization. Farmers vs shepherds. Dr. Jason Price UCLA PhD 2020 in Near Eastern Languages and Cultures. 

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Slavery drives Christian thought far more than you realize. It has never left us. Imagine for a moment being on a plantation as a child. Slavery requires the crushing of empathy. Much of what we’ve seen in the last 400 years in the west was the use of theology to excuse the massive brutality and hypocrisy of colonialism. Presbyterian history and the divergence of the PCUSA and PCA illustrates This messy history. So tangled, can we ever unwind it? Woke is an indicator. If you want to keep things separate, you label it and push it away. Social consensus is the enemy of Christian Nationalism. The recent story about Nottoway plantation is very telling. It was a resort and a party wedding venue. Yet it was a site of rape, murder, and torture of 155 slaves in its sugar plantation. Deconstructing the myth of white evangelical Christianity and its complicity in covering up cruelty is a necessity to move forward. The bullying must stop before we can be the church of Jesus Christ again. 

References:
“Divided by Faith: Evangelical Faith and the Problem of Race in America” by Christian Smith and Michael O. Emerson
“The Color of Compromise” by Jemar Tisby

#Slavery #christianity #empathy #pca #christiannationalism #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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Asking "What is the gospel?" is surprisingly controversial in some quarters. Most people believe the gospel is the radical love of God in the person, death, and resurrection of Jesus. But that’s not enough for many others. They insist that Penal Substitutionary Atonement theory defines the Gospel. This was not true for the majority of Christians for the majority of history, but it is vigorously defended, especially by Calvinist Christians. PSA is a Western Enlightenment concept that comes out of colonialist cultures. It’s so strongly ingrained that many people think it’s just what Christianity is. I believe this assumption is very harmful and the main roadblock that prevents us from having a theology that includes all humanity. I define what an Atonement Theory is and describe how PSA is just one of them. Then I describe why PSA is so vigorously defended and why it is such a barrier to bringing new people into the faith. 

https://www.sdmorrison.org/7-theories-of-the-atonement-summarized/
David Bentley Hart, "That All Shall Be Saved."

#penalsubstitution #atonement #salvation #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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"If you know Jeremiah, you know the Old Testament" is something I like to say. Because it is the most political book of the Bible. It is the backdrop of King Josiah's huge political blunder in fighting against Pharaoh Neco in 2 Chronicles 35 that shows us why. King Josiah was the beginning of the distinctively Jewish state. The Deuteronomists come from this period, and everything we see from before the exile, Genesis through 2nd Kings, comes through the lens of them. I discuss the shifting of the Overton Window in Jeremiah's time and how he fought the powerful to stay true. I also describe how this shifting looks very similar to America's political leaders' choices. I ask whether our response to threats and changes should be Realpolitik like the cynical Henry Kissinger or the diplomacy of George C. Marshall or later George H. W. Bush. All of these approaches had their successes and failures. It was very hard to discern truth and faithfulness in Jeremiah's day as well. I will speak more about Jeremiah in future episodes. I am convinced that the better we know this, the better we can be faithful to God's promise for us. 

Correction: King Amon ruled for only 2 years. King Josiah ruled for 31 years. Sorry for the error.

Reference: "The Prophetic Imagination" by Walter Brueggemann, especially chapter 3

#Jeremiah #josiah #prophesy #realpolitick #overtonwindow #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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I said "Apologetics is Circular Reasoning" in a video last year. It garnered a lot of hate, cheers, and hundreds of thousands of views on Instagram. The response was fascinating because what should have been a philosophical argument turned into a test of faithfulness. Modern Apologetics, meaning the use of the scientific method to prove the existence and sovereignty of God is fallacious. Apologetics historically had a purpose, and when it is applied as a defense of one's beliefs as in the New Testament, it is perfectly reasonable, but today it is an evangelistic technique and not a valid field of study. I explain the difference between apologia in the Bible and modern apologetics. I refer to respected apologists like William Lane Craig and his techniques and how they differ from many less respected apologists like James White and the historical use of apologia. This reveals a culture of theological control and bullying clothed in intellectual garments. 

Reference: "Sin of Certainty" by Peter Enns, pp. 114-5

#apologetics #evangelism #Bible #apologia #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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There is no more painful label for women than being called a Jezebel. It contains all the condemning, cursing, and slut shaming you can imagine. "Jezebel Spirit" is a frequently used racial slur in some churches. Jezebel was a foreign woman, likely forced into a royal marriage with a weak husband, which was bad enough. Still, she became the scapegoat for a whole nation; everything bad has been laid on her for millennia. Does she deserve it? Queen Vashti has a marginally better reputation, and her legacy didn't turn into a curse of all Israel like Jezebel's, but she was also a strong woman condemned for taking charge. Does she deserve what happened to her? I compare these two women and what it says about weak men looking for a scapegoat. While Jezebel did many evil things, her real sins seem to have been being a foreigner, a strong woman, and being the Queen of Israel instead of Judah. I talk about how these women are a touchstone for Womanist Theology. 

Reference:
"Womanist Midrash, Vols 1 & 2" by Wilda C. Gafney, Professor of Hebrew Bible at Brite Divinity School

Other womanist authors include: Dr. Angela Parker, Dr. Renita Weems, Dr. Mitzi Smith

#jezebel #jezebelspirit #vashti #womanist #theology #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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The answer is neither. Economics is all over the Bible, but modern labels have so much historical and cultural meaning that it is dishonest to label anyone in scripture as capitalist or socialist or communist. Instead, we must talk about commerce and the common good. The Bible has a lot to say about fair measures and honest business dealings. It condemns cheating and repression unequivocally. But it also has many passages about social structure and how things must be shared. The ancient practice of gleaning, the Jubilee year, charity to the poor, the tithe, selling goods and sharing are all biblical. When people use the bible to uphold unbridled capitalism, it is a perversion of the gospel. When people use the bible for centralized control and distribution is a perversion of fairness and equity. There has always been a balance. I discuss the bad uses of Marxist and capitalist labels. I discuss how the efficiency of modern economics is what drives goodness for all when applied fairly. I discuss the difference between usury and exploitation and modern interest and credit as prime example of how the Bible shouldn't be taken literally and that the underlying faithfulness, compassion, and fairness need to be highlighted instead. 

#capitalism #marxism #usury #jubilee #jesus #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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Many people, especially in America, are waking up to the fact that our freedom is on the line. While this has been the norm for most people in most of history, it is a surprising development for many privileged white people. Our views often mask how radical the Gospels really are. There was provocative, yet non-violent, resistance throughout Jesus's ministry. Many see the commissioning of Peter in John 21, "Feed my lambs," as being about Peter's evangelism, but it is really an act of resistance. The big fish people they brought out of the Sea of Galilee were illicit. Cooking and eating them was an act of defiance. It is an example of the resistance we should be engaged in today. Indigenous author Kaitlin Curtice shows how resistance is living daily in truth and connection. She quotes psychologist and author Clarissa Pinkola Estes, who said, "Do not lose heart, we were made for these times." I read and discuss excerpts of her article and Curtice's recent book "Living Resistance." 

Correction: I misprounced θαυμάζων

References: 
Kaitlin B. Curtice, "Living Resistance: An Indigenous Vision for Seeking Wholeness Every Day" 
Clarissa Pinkola Estes, https://www.awakin.org/v2/read/view.php?tid=548 
Diana Butler Bass and John Dominic Crossan have written extensively on Galilean fish industry and the Romans. 

#resistance #indigenous #civildisobedience #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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If you are a woman, you have likely heard the story of Martha and Mary. Martha is hurried and busy in the kitchen at the big party she threw for Jesus. But Mary sits down at Jesus's feet, anointing him with ointment. Martha complains to Jesus, saying that he should tell Mary to get busy and help her sister. But Jesus says Mary chose the better way. This is usually told to shame busy body women. But this is totally wrong. Instead, it is an invitation into a man's world that they had been excluded from. This story is coupled with Judas rebuking the extravagant use of ointment. And Jesus says that the poor will always be with us, which is also poorly used to remove the shame of not supporting the poor. The common theme is misusing this story to uphold patriarchy and male dominance. They couldn't be more wrong. I describe the audacity of Mary and Martha, and the corruption of Judas in context. text. 

#marthaandmary #lazarus #judas #passion #Jesus #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

The word for "sat" is παρακαθεσθεῖσα which is a reflexive word, which in context literally means "one who sat herself down alongside at Jesus's feet." To sit at his feet is to be his disciple.

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In this episode, we dive deep into the critical examination of how scripture, specifically Romans 13:1-7 and Jeremiah 17:9-10, can be misread to support fascist ideology. Through an affirming Christianity lens, we challenge these interpretations while emphasizing inclusive Christianity and the importance of nuanced Bible interpretation in modern Christian faith. Drawing on insights from theologians like Bonhoeffer and Barth, and historical documents such as the Barmen Declaration, this discussion aims to empower listeners to engage thoughtfully with scripture. We also reference Jonathan Rauch's article "Yes, It's Fascism" to provide a contemporary context. Join us as we explore how the Bible supports spiritual growth and social justice, aligning with the mission of PCUSA ministry to foster open and affirming Christian communities.

This is a follow up to my podcasts:

Pastors and Fascism, Romans 13:1-7 & Jeremiah

S1E36, March 22, 2025

War on Empathy, 2 Corinthians 1:3-7, Psalm 103:13

S1E53, July 16, 2025

Jonathan Rauch “Yes, It’s Fascism” The Atlantic, January 25, 2026

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Have you been puzzled by the dissonance of Palm Sunday? How can people seem so happy at the start of the worst week of Jesus's life? Why do we think Hosanna is offering praise? What made the people throw their cloaks down and wave branches? These are pivotal questions. Looking at the volatile political and cultural dynamics at play, you can see the astonishing insight and bravery of Jesus. Whether you believe his actions were divinely guided or not, I get a glimpse how this amazing story shows us the Jesus that I love. From the triumphal entry to Jesus weeping over Jerusalem to Jesus's audacious cleansing to the temple, Jesus went to the wall, through the gate, and put himself in the hands of the authorities leading to his crucifixion and resurrection. I describe what it looked like for Jesus to ride from the Mount of Olives to the eastern wall of Jerusalem. I describe the political dynamics and the astonishing bravery of Jesus in Luke 19:28-39.

#palmsunday #jesus #jerusalem #cleansingthetemple #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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Correction! Jezreel Valley goes from Haifa to the Jordan River. Kidron Valley is next to Jerusalem. I am sorry for the error!

No word is more polarizing than "woke" but the people who get really angry about usually can't define it. To them, it just means anything liberal they don't like. Instead, the term arose in the black community in the mid-20th century and it simply means becoming aware of the systemic injustice in American society. It was used against Jim Crow and racism and the institutions that kept and still keep people of color down. I argue that Amos is the most woke book of the Hebrew Bible because it is a shock to the self-righteous. Old Testament Survey classes are usually the weeder classes in seminaries, in a similar way that Calculus is in universities. Why? I explore how many Christians when faced with a deeper understanding of the Old Testament encounter a crisis of faith. Amos is one of those books for Americans and all western societies. Amos has long been used as a critique by civil rights advocates and liberation theologians. If you don't see yourself in Amos, you just aren't paying attention.  

Reference: Gören Eidevall "Amos: A New Translation with Introduction and Commentary (The Anchor Yale Bible Commentaries)

#oldtestament #amos #woke #capitalism #liberationtheology #selfrighteousness #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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Pastors always walk a fine line when it comes to politics and current events. Healthy congregations have people with a variety of political persuasions. Being a true pastor means you should never abuse the privilege of power to push partisan political positions. But we are also compelled to preach the gospel, so we should not be complicit or quiet in the face of political cruelty and injustice nor in the face of anything-goes immorality. So how can you be faithful and non-partisan at the same time? There are two ways to look at it. One is to understand Romans 13:1-7 in context and how it is used. The other is to know about the political backdrop for the book of Jeremiah. I also mention Dietrich Bonhoeffer and Karl Barth and the Confession Church when they were facing the massive takeover of fascism in Germany. 

I mention the historian with the tag of @oh_mellnawww on TikTok and Instagram. She has a very important perspective. 

#fascism #pastor #confessingchurch #politics #christiannationalism #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

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What does Newton and Darwin have to do with God? A whole lot. Newton represents the height and triumph of determinism, the idea that all things have a cause and effect. If you know all the inputs and processes of a system, you can determine every outcome. Calvin's writings underpinned this by saying that God has absolute control of the entire universe, which Newton used to generalize from earth to the cosmos. Newton was a very religious man. Darwin who was also religious, created a major fissure in determinism by describing how random events and natural selection are the basis for evolution. The rise of quantum mechanics and chaos in the following century obliterated any scientific foundation for determinism. For the believer, the argument isn't so much whether God is in control, but whether God plays by God's own rules. I touch on the leap of imagination that Newton and Darwin had to make to have the astounding insights they developed. I also mention Einstein's lifelong struggle with determinism. And how religious people have such a hard time giving up the control that determinism gives them. 

#newton #darwin #einstein #determinism #faith #predestination #freewill #edmonds #edmondspres #pcusa

Eph 1:11 In Christ we have also obtained an inheritance, having been destined according to the purpose of him who accomplishes all things according to his counsel and will,

Jer 10:23 
I know, O Lord, that the way of humans is not in their control,
    that mortals as they walk cannot direct their steps.