Psychologists Off the Clock – Détails, épisodes et analyse

Why do so many kids seem unmotivated at school, and what can we do about it? In this episode of Psychologists Off the Clock, we’re taking a look at what’s really going on with student engagement, especially during those tricky adolescent years. 

Our guests, Rebecca Winthrop and Jenny Anderson, co-authors of The Disengaged Teen, join Emily to break it all down. From the four types of learners—the Passenger, Achiever, Resistor, and Explorer—to how we can help kids tap into curiosity and motivation, this conversation is full of eye-opening insights for both parents and educators. 

They also unpack the pressures of today’s achievement culture, the influence of tech and AI, and most importantly, how parents and teachers can support teens in becoming more confident, engaged learners.

Listen and Learn: 

• Why Rebecca Winthrop and Jenny Anderson wrote a game-changing book to fix the student disengagement crisis
• Why only 4% of teens feel truly engaged in school, and what you can do to change that
• What true engagement looks like in your teen 
• How boosting your child’s engagement in learning can improve grades, motivation, and mental health
• Why the “age of achievement” hoop-jumping is harming your child and how to shift toward true agency
• How your child can shift between four learning modes and how you can help them thrive
• Spotting if your child’s stuck in “passenger mode” and igniting their true learning spark
• How your neurodivergent or struggling child can unlock support and build resilience
• How your well-meaning expectations might be fueling your child’s harmful perfectionism
• Turning your child’s “resistor mode” into growth by truly understanding and supporting them
• Why your child’s curiosity and choices spark real learning skills that grades and rules can’t teach
• How your curiosity and relationship with your child can transform their learning mindset

Resources: 

• The Disengaged Teen: Helping Kids Learn Better, Feel Better, and Live Better:
• https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780593727072
• Jenny’s website: https://www.jennywestanderson.org/ 
• Rebecca’s website: https://www.rebeccawinthrop.com/
• Connect with Rebecca on social media: 

https://www.instagram.com/drrebeccawinthrop/?hl=en

https://x.com/rebeccawinthrop?lang=en

https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebecca-winthrop-b36b0617

• Connect with Jenny on social media: 

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/jennyandersonnyt

https://x.com/jwestanderson?lang=en

https://www.instagram.com/jennyandersonwrites/?hl=en 

About Rebecca Winthrop and Jenny Anderson

Rebecca Winthrop is a leading global authority on education, the director of the Center for Universal Education at Brookings and an adjunct professor at Georgetown University. She is dedicated to ensuring that every child has the opportunity to thrive in life, work, and as an engaged citizen. She leads cutting-edge research and initiatives aimed at transforming education systems around the world to better support children's learning and development. 

Rebecca is a trusted advisor to both school communities and national and international organizations. Her expertise is sought by many including parent networks, schools, district education leaders, the White House, the United Nations, and Fortune 500 companies. Rebecca's work is centered on developing and advocating for evidence-based strategies that bring people together—families, educators, policymakers, and companies—to help children maximize their potential. 

She holds a PhD from Columbia University’s Teachers College, an MA from its School of International and Public Affairs, and a BA from Swarthmore College.

Jenny Anderson is an award-winning journalist, author, and speaker with more than 25 years of experience. Her work has appeared in some of the world’s leading publications, including The New York Times, where she was on staff for 10 years, TIME, The Atlantic, the Wall Street Journal and Quartz.

Related Episodes:

• 369. Good News About Adolescence with Ellen Galinsky
• 344. Differently Wired Kids with Deborah Reber
• 332. Middle School Superpowers with Phyllis Fagell
• 324. Toxic Achievement Culture with Jennifer Wallace
• 319. Autonomy-Supportive Parenting with Emily Edlynn
• 272. Middle School Matters with Phyllis Fagell

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What’s a skill that can instantly improve your relationships, communication, and even your influence? In this episode, Yael talks with Caroline Fleck, a licensed psychologist and author of Validation, to unpack exactly that.

Caroline explains what validation really is, how it’s different from empathy or sympathy, and why it can be so powerful in both personal and professional relationships. 

They walk you through how validation first gained traction in therapy, especially in dialectical behavior therapy, and Caroline shares simple techniques like attending, copying, and proposing that anyone can use.

You’ll get Caroline’s take on the challenge of validating someone when you strongly disagree, the role of self-disclosure in connection, and how our understanding of emotions has shifted from classic microexpressions to a more nuanced view of emotional experience.

If you’re looking for practical ways to build better relationships and truly connect, this episode is full of insight.

Listen and Learn: 

• What is validation?
• Why feeling truly seen and accepted is the key to deeper trust, love, and real connection in your life
• How invalidation can be toxic to your relationships and how empathy and validation actually heal them
• Can validation help you connect with someone even if you don’t agree or relate to their situation?
• How accepting someone else's view first can actually boost your influence and get you heard more often
• The simple act of repeating exact words in conflict helps fights cool down and allows real conversations to happen
• Why messing up shows you’re trying to truly understand, and how that keeps the connection real
• Why you don’t have to agree with someone’s whole view to validate it; just find the part that makes sense
• How to be open, but balanced, to create space for real connection and trust to grow

Resources: 

• Validation: How the Skill Set That Revolutionized Psychology Will Transform Your Relationships, Increase Your Influence, and Change Your Life

https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780593541210

• Visit Caroline’s website: https://drcarolinefleck.com/

• Connect with Caroline on social media: 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/carolinefleck/

https://www.instagram.com/carolinefleckphd/

https://www.youtube.com/@Dr.CarolineFleck

https://www.tiktok.com/@drcarolinefleck 

• Boogie Board Tablet on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/B551B3AA-1FD5-4BBA-AB25-58D0F67052FE?ingress=0&visitId=8be7808f-e257-437b-b72f-b8e79fd8fca9 

• Study on empathic effort versus accuracy

• How Emotions Are Made by Lisa Feldman Barrett
• The Autistic Brain by Temple Grandin

About Caroline Fleck: 

Dr. Caroline Fleck is a licensed psychologist, writer, and corporate consultant who has served as a supervisor and consultant for some of the most rigorous training programs in the country, including Dr. Marsha Linehan’s program at the University of Washington, the Department of Psychiatry at Stanford Medical Center, and the VA Palo Alto.

She is a respected voice in psychology and has been featured in national media outlets, including The New York Times, Good Morning America, and The Huffington Post. Her new book, which we’re here to discuss, is the first of its kind to make the specialized validation skills therapists master to get through to anyone available to everyone.

Related Episodes:

• Episode 120: Use DBT Skills to Regulate Emotions and Be More Effective in Relationships with Matthew McKay
• Episode 241. Emotion Coaching Skills for Families with Mindy Solomon
• Episode 282. Toxic Positivity with Whitney Goodman
• Episode 397. The Mindful Path to Intimacy with James Cordova
• Episode 408. Connecting like a Hostage Negotiator with Gary Noesner

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You’ve tried reasoning with your kids, setting boundaries, and even taking away privileges, but the conflict just keeps bubbling up. When nothing seems to calm the chaos, where can you turn as a parent who’s simply worn out and craving peace in your home?

For this conversation, Emily brings in guest Dr. Jonathan Caspi, an internationally recognized sibling expert and professor at Montclair State University. Jonathan offers insights from his book, Raising Loving Siblings, on the parental role in sibling conflict, the importance of sibling closeness, and strategies to manage and improve sibling relationships. 

Tune in if you are interested in learning about parental involvement and guidance for cultivating positive sibling relationships and reducing conflict. 

• Why well-meaning parents may unknowingly fuel sibling rivalry and what to do differently instead
• Does parental conflict fuel sibling rivalry? 
• Why recognizing harmful sibling behavior matters
• How sibling bullying hides in plain sight through avoidance, fear, and subtle signs parents often miss
• Why everyday sibling spats are normal, but constant conflict may signal deeper family dynamics at play
• Can frequent sibling fights sabotage lifelong bonds?
• Why perceived favoritism can fuel sibling conflict, why avoiding favoritism talk may actually hurt family dynamics, and how to handle it better
• How to manage sibling bickering and aggression with strategies that foster better behavior and connection
• How validating kids' emotions and avoiding the 'victim vs. aggressor' mindset can help resolve sibling conflicts
• How parents' own childhood experiences can shape their approach to sibling relationships

● Jonathan's book Raising Loving Siblings: How to Stop the Fighting and Help Your Kids Connect 

● Jonathan’s websites: 

https://siblingexpert.com/author/caspij/

http://www.theeasyfamily.com/ 

● Connect with Jonathan on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/siblingexpert/ 

Jonathan Caspi, PhD, MSW, is Professor of Family Science and Human Development at Montclair State University in New Jersey. Dr. Caspi is an internationally recognized sibling expert. In addition to researching, writing, and teaching about families and siblings, he has been a family therapist for over 30 years and has a private practice in New Jersey.

• 397. The Mindful Path to Intimacy with James Cordova
• 386. Parents Are Stressed: What Do We Do About It? With Emily, Debbie, and Yael
• 373. How to Stop Freaking Out with Carla Naumburg
• 369. Good News About Adolescence with Ellen Galinsky
• 241. Emotion Coaching Skills for Families with Mindy Solomon

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It’s time to talk about menopause. Despite being such a pivotal stage in a woman's development, it does not always receive the acknowledgment it deserves. And with half of the population affected by menopause, it’s about time we started talking about it loud and proud!

Helping us unpack the whirlwind of physical and emotional changes women experience as they go through this transition is Jancee Dunn, columnist, perimenopause warrior, and author of Hot and Bothered, who shares her insightful thoughts. 

As we laugh and learn about the ups and downs of menopause, you’ll hear about the 30+ symptoms (yep, you read that right!), and we've got you covered with intimacy tips, the best treatments to ease the discomfort, and even some surprising positives about this stage of life. No matter your gender identity, we welcome everyone to join us for this refreshingly hilarious and eye-opening journey!

• The experiences Jancee went through with menopause that inspired her to write Hot and Bothered
• Why Jancee advises confiding in loved ones—even your kids—when going through menopause
• Some well-known and lesser-known menopausal symptoms 
• Understanding estrogen and progesterone through the lawnmower metaphor
• Why you should avoid blood tests to determine menopause 
• The fascinating link between hot flashes, sleep, and weight gain
• How menopause can impact sex and intimacy, as well as tips for a more comfortable experience! 
• Does menopausal hormone therapy treat all symptoms of menopause, and what are the risks and benefits?
• The upside of menopause

• Jancee Dunn’s website 
• Hot and Bothered: What No One Tells You About Menopause and How to Feel Like Yourself Again
• Follow Jancee on Instagram and Facebook
• For trained menopause specialists, visit The North American Menopause Society (NAMS).

Jancee Dunn is the New York Times bestselling author of nine books, including a memoir and a biography of Cyndi Lauper. Her essay collection Why Is My Mother Getting a Tattoo? was a finalist for the Thurber Prize for American Humor. Her last book, How Not To Hate Your Husband After Kids, was published in twelve languages. She is a frequent contributor to The New York Times, Vogue, and Health. She was a sex columnist at GQ and had a column that addressed ethical dilemmas in O, The Oprah Magazine. She lives in New Jersey with her husband, the author Tom Vanderbilt, and their daughter.

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• 204. Ageless with Andrew Steele
• 248. Let’s Talk About Sex & Intimacy with Zoë Kors

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If you enjoyed our most recent episode, Episode 314, Munchausen by proxy with Andrea Dunlop and Marc Feldman on Munchausen by Proxy syndrome, you won’t want to miss Andrea’s podcast, Nobody Should Believe Me. 

In this special bonus episode, we are bringing our listeners the very first episode of Nobody Should Believe Me. Andrea shares how she first became captivated by the story of Hope Ybarra–who spent ten years in prison for Munchausen by Proxy–and begins to unpack the many similarities between Hope’s case and Andrea’s own family story.

Andrea Dunlop is the host and creator of NOBODY SHOULD BELIEVE ME, an investigative true crime podcast that is consistently in the top 20 on the Apple True Crime charts. Andrea is the founder of Munchausen Support, an online resource and non-profit that supports survivors and families. She is a member of the American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children’s Munchausen by proxy committee where she serves alongside some of the country’s foremost experts. Andrea is the author of four novels: Losing the Light (Atria; 2016), She Regrets Nothing (Atria: 2018), We Came Here to Forget (Atria; 2019), and Women Are the Fiercest Creatures (Zibby Books; 2023) Her work has been featured in places like Vanity Fair, People, Entertainment Weekly, ABC News Live, and elsewhere. She is currently working on a non-fiction book based on the podcast, co-authored with Detective Mike Weber that is forthcoming from St. Martin’s Press in 2024.

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Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome (MBPS) is a psychological disorder that you may have heard whispers about in the media in which a person, usually a parent, fakes or induces a medical condition in another person to gain attention. In most cases, it is the mother of a child who pretends or even causes medical symptoms the child does not actually have.

To shed light on this highly complex topic, we brought in the expertise of Andrea Dunlop, founder of Munchausen Support, and Marc Feldman, a renowned specialist in factitious disorder, Munchausen syndrome, and Munchausen by proxy. Through personal experiences, real-life cases, and scientific research, they educate us on the underlying motivations behind this behavior, including the desire for attention and emotional gratification.

The conversation also touches on the range of behaviors associated with Munchausen by Proxy, from subtle forms of overmedicalization to extreme cases involving active induction of illness. Andrea and Marc stress the need to acknowledge and address these behaviors, as well as provide support and resources for survivors and their families. Find out how we can support people affected by these complex disorders by tuning in.

• Andrea shares her personal experience with the topic after her sister was investigated for medical child abuse
• The distinctions between Munchausen syndrome and Munchausen by proxy 
• Are Munchausen syndrome patients, or Munchausen by proxy perpetrators, deliberately deceitful?
• What kind of satisfaction does Munchausen syndrome cause to motivate such pathological behavior?
• Can factitious disorder behaviors occur in both real life and online?
• How do we recognize the signs of Munchausen syndrome, or Munchausen by proxy?
• Does Munchausen behavior always lead someone to be the perpetrator?
• Where to find resources and information about Munchausen
• What we can do to prevent abuse inflicted by Munchausen by proxy 
• Are we bad at recognizing female violence? 
• Is rehabilitation possible?

• Website for Dr. Marc Feldman 
• Websites for Andrea Dunlop’s writing and Munchausen by Proxy advocacy work with resources
• Follow Andrea on Instagram
• Nobody Should Believe Me Podcast hosted and created by Andrea Dunlop 
• The Spectrum of Factitious Disorders and Dying to Be Ill: True Stories of Medical Deception by Marc Feldman 
• Munchausen syndrome by proxy. The Hinterland of Child Abuse an article by Roy Meadow 
• APSAC: American Professional Society Abuse Children
• Munchausen By Proxy Warning Signs
• Psychological Treatment of Factitious Disorder Imposed on Another/Munchausen by Proxy Abuse by Mary J. Sanders and Brenda Bursch

• 98. Narcissism with Avigail Lev and Robyn Walser
• 292. Adult Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers with Stephanie Kriesberg 
• 263. Relationships with Emotionally Immature People with Lindsay Gibson

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In the treatment of anxiety, panic disorder, and OCD, exposure therapy has long been recognized as the gold standard. But what if there was an even more powerful approach to confronting your fears or trauma?

For this episode, we welcome two esteemed guests, Dr. Brian Thompson and Dr. Brian Pilecki to uncover the transformative impact of blending traditional exposure therapy with the principles of ACT.

Through practical examples from their groundbreaking book, ACT-Informed Exposure for Anxiety, we learn about the significance of acceptance, values, and how clinicians can incorporate ACT concepts into exposure sessions, emphasizing the power of creativity and psychological flexibility in the therapeutic process. This is a must-listen for anyone seeking a deeper understanding of cutting-edge anxiety interventions. Tune in for an experience that could radically change your relationship with anxiety forever!

• What is traditional exposure therapy?
• Why choose ACT-informed exposure therapy over traditional exposure therapy?
• The impact of psychological flexibility 
• How those who experience anxiety disorders may get caught up in rule-governed behavior 
• How rule-governed behaviors are undermined by ACT-informed exposure
• What exactly is creative hopelessness, and how is it applied to ACT-informed exposure for anxiety?
• Is there a structure to ACT-informed exposure?
• Examples of how exposure therapy incorporates ACT principles
• The common obstacles that can show up for a client or therapist when doing ACT-informed exposure 

• Brian Pilecki, Ph.D.
• Brian Thompson, Ph.D
• The Cruelest Cure - New York Times article by Lauren Slater
• Act-Informed Exposure for Anxiety: Creating Effective, Innovative, and Values-Based Exposures Using Acceptance and Commitment Therapy by Brian L. Thompson, Brian C. Pilecki and Joanne C. Chan 
• Altered States of Context Podcast

• 77. Acceptance and Commitment Therapy with Jill Stoddard
• 287. Think, Act, Be with Seth Gillihan
• 212. Stuff That’s Loud with Lisa Coyne & Ben Sedley
• 188. Unwinding Anxiety with Judson Brewer
• 181. Stop Avoiding Stuff with Matt Boone
• 121. Be Mighty with Jill Stoddard
• 309. Language of Emotions with Karla McClaren

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Have you ever considered that, while being super focused can be a positive quality, it may also have its drawbacks? Think about it: when you channel your attention so intensely on one thing, you could be neglecting a whole realm of valuable information and stimuli out there.

Embark on a journey with us into the mysterious world of illusions! Piggy-backing off of the previous episode on the science of deception, we are taking you back in time to revisit an eleven-year-old conversation between Debbie and Christopher Chabris for the New Books Network about, "The Invisible Gorilla: How Our Intuitions Deceive Us ". 

Through this captivating book, you’ll discover how to view the world through the lens of illusions and how our perceptions can be deceived. From the illusion of attention, flashbulb memory, and The Mozart Effect to the illusions of confidence and knowledge, challenge your assumptions and gain insight into how our brains can be tricked and our decision-making influenced.

• How was The Gorilla Experiment conceived, and what were the key findings? 
• What did the experiment reveal about attention in particular?
• How the illusion of attention can affect our daily lives
• Why do we not notice significant changes in our visual world when our attention is distracted?
• Do we actually pay attention to our memories?
• The illusion of knowledge and how it pertains to investing
• Why do we think we know cause and effect better than we actually do?
• The Mozart Effect: is it really beneficial to our cognitive abilities?
• The illusion of potential and why we have the tendency to believe that there are quick and easy ways to achieve dramatic results
• How to change your environment to make you less prone to falling victim to these illusions

• Christopher Chabris
• The Invisible Gorilla: And Other Ways Our Intuitions Deceive Us by Christopher Chabris and Daniel Simons 
• Follow Christopher on Twitter 
• Original interview on New Books Network 

Dr. Christopher Chabris is a cognitive scientist who has taught at Union College and Harvard University and is a Fellow of the Association for Psychological Science. His research focuses on decision-making, attention, intelligence, and behavior genetics. Chris received his Ph.D. in psychology and A.B. in computer science from Harvard University. He is a chess master, poker amateur, and games enthusiast; for three years he wrote the “Game On” column in The Wall Street.

• 311. Nobody’s Fool with Daniel Simons and Christopher Chabris
• 42. Strategies To Increase Focus And Work More Effectively with Debbie and Diana
• 127. Indistractable with Nir Eyal
• 20. Phones, Games, And Screens: Sustainable Technology Use
• 13. Healthy Aging and the Brain

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Deception is everywhere. Fake psychics, dodgy investment deals, cults, and pesky scam calls can be hard to detect, even for the smartest or most vigilant individuals. This poses the question of what makes us vulnerable and what precautions we can take? 

Joining us for this episode are two exceptional cognitive scientists, Christopher Chabris and Daniel Simons. Through studies and findings from their highly anticipated book, "Nobody's Fool, Why We Get Taken In, and What We Can Do About It" they provide us with valuable insight into how to navigate the treacherous world of deception. 

In this fascinating conversation, Christopher and Daniel unveil the cognitive biases that plague us all while offering practical ways to safeguard ourselves from being duped. Drawing upon real-life situations, they come equipped with an arsenal of tactics that can be incorporated into your daily life and that won't breed paranoia or leave you in a perpetual state of vigilance—quite the opposite! Their goal is to provide you with the knowledge to navigate life confidently, cautiously, and securely.

• Is everyone susceptible to being duped?
• How have Daniel and Christopher become savvier at recognizing scams as a result of writing and researching their book, Nobody’s Fool?
• Daniel's clever suggestion for protecting your family from scam calls  
• How ‘truth bias’ can make us more vulnerable in day-to-day life 
• Why do we often fail to see something that's right in front of us? Even something so glaringly apparent?
• Principle of focus: what does it mean, and how is it used as a means to deceive?
• How our beliefs and expectations can deter us from seeing what is actually there and how to avoid falling victim to the trap
• Why it's crucial to consider all of the information that you're missing when interpreting information or data that is presented to you
• How can we protect ourselves from being fooled when the risk is high?
• The “illusory truth effect”: why do we have a tendency to treat familiarity as a sign of fact?
• How can we find that balance between accepting the truth bias and being cautious?

• Christopher Chabris
• Follow Christopher on Twitter 
• Daniel Simons
• Follow Daniel on Twitter
• Nobody's Fool, Why We Get Taken In, and What We Can Do About It
• The Invisible Gorilla: How Our Intuitions Deceive Us
• Gorilla Experiment
• Influence: Science and Practice by Robert Cialdini 

Daniel Simons and Christopher Chabris are the authors of the 2010 New York Times Bestseller, The Invisible Gorilla: How Our Intuitions Deceive Us, which has been translated into 20 languages. They have collaborated on research for more than 25 years, and they jointly received the 2004 Ig Nobel Prize (given for research that "first makes you laugh and then makes you think"). They have contributed to The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, Slate, and other national publications, and their work has appeared in science museums worldwide. They spent nearly a decade researching and writing Nobody’s Fool.

• 295. Buyer Beware: Pseudoscience and the Wellness Industry, featuring Pooja Lakshmin   
• 255. Influence is Your Superpower with Zoe Chance
• 196. The Neuroscience of Marketing with Matt Johnson and Prince Ghuman
• 305. The Power of Saying No with Vanessa Patrick 
• 186. Set Boundaries Find Peace with Nedra Tawwab: 
• 276. Assertive Communication Skills with Randy Paterson

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Our expectations can shape how we navigate life in more ways than one. Expectations help us prepare, but not just through action; there are actual physiological changes that occur when we're anticipating certain things.

David Robson, "an award-winning science writer who focuses on the extremes of the human brain, body, and behavior", joins us for this episode. Through practical takeaways founded on scientific theory from his book, The Expectation Effect: How Your Mindset Can Change Your World, David opens our minds to a fun and transformative look at the fantastical power that the mind has in making expectations a reality.

Learn useful tools that you can use to your benefit, both in terms of increasing positive experiences and better managing the harder experiences that are unavoidable. Tune in for this game-changing episode that will shift your perspective and day-to-day experience in some fascinating and surprising ways. 

• Why David describes the mind as a prediction machine 
• Unpacking Alia J Crum’s "Mind-set Matters: Exercise and the Placebo Effect" study and why it propelled David to write The Expectation Effect 
• Finding the ideal level of optimism and pessimism with regard to expectations
• How can people's perceptions of the same events differ so widely from one another, and why might this be a strength rather than a point of conflict? 
• The power of context in directing our expectations and impacting how we experience the world
• Is willpower depleting or self-perpetuating, and does mindset play a role? 
• The placebo vs. the nocebo effect 
• The three different mechanisms for The Expectation Effect
• What is the best way to set up The Expectation Effect when we are experiencing sadness or depression?
• How researching The Expectation Effect changed the trajectory of David's depression
• The parallels between The Expectation Effect and other disciplines like Buddhism and Acceptance and Commitment Therapy 

• Visit David's website
• Follow David on Twitter 
• The Expectation Effect: How Your Mindset Can Change Your World
• Mind-set Matters: Exercise and the Placebo Effect
• Another White Christmas: fantasy proneness and reports of ‘hallucinatory experiences’ in undergraduate students

David Robson is an award-winning science writer specializing in the extremes of the human brain, body and behavior. He’s written for the Guardian, the Atlantic, New Scientist, Men’s Health and many more. His first book was The Intelligence Trap and his second, discussed in this episode, is The Expectation Effect: How Your Mindset Can Transform Your World. 

• 209. The Art of Managing Pressure with Hank Weisinger
• 227. The Science of Happy with Sonja Lyubomirksy
• 259. Rethinking Delusions with Victoria Sheperd
• 266. Future Tense with Tracy Dennis-Tiwary

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