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When Gypsy Rose Blanchard announced she was pregnant, the internet opened an investigation. The woman who spent her childhood trapped inside her mother's medical lies was now raising a daughter of her own. In this episode, I look at what the research actually says about the cycle of abuse, and at what happens when a mother is watched as closely as Gypsy is. Strangers called CPS over a livestream and a baby with colic. Someone pulled her daughter's shot records from a state database and put them on TikTok. I talk to one of the women who made a CPS report, I go looking for whoever put a baby's medical records on the internet, and I ask Gypsy where she thinks the line is between protecting a child and isolating one. Content note: This episode discusses child abuse and contains strong language. Sources and further reading Cathy Spatz Widom, Sally J. Czaja and Kimberly A. DuMont, "Intergenerational transmission of child abuse and neglect: Real or detection bias?" Science (2015): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25814584/ Cathy Spatz Widom, "The Cycle of Violence," Science (1989): https://doi.org/10.1126/science.2704995 Fleming S. Pedroso et al., "The Diving Reflex in Healthy Infants in the First Year of Life," Journal of Child Neurology (2012): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21881008/ Louisiana Children's Code, Article 609, Mandatory and permitted reporting: https://www.legis.la.gov/LEGIS/Law.aspx?d=73201 Written and hosted by Javier LeivaEdited by Puneeth Shenoy with The Podcast PunditsTheme music by Joe Basile, thechicken.net ©2026 Creative Babble, LLC Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How does a doctor actually decide that a parent is making their child sick? Dr. John Melville is a child abuse pediatrician, president of the Ray E. Helfer Society, and one of the people who helped write the board exam that certifies child abuse pediatricians. In this bonus episode, he walks me through how medical child abuse is diagnosed. He explains the difference between Munchausen by proxy, factitious disorder imposed on another, and medical child abuse. And he answers the criticism that child abuse pediatricians are self-appointed experts who took a short course and now override the specialists who know the patient best. He also talks about what happens when he's wrong, in either direction, and about the myth that a child who's been abused is broken forever. Dr. Melville has cerebral palsy, which affects his speech. He asked me to mention it up front. Note: I didn't ask Dr. Melville about Gypsy Rose Blanchard, and he hasn't studied her case. He speaks here only about his own work, and for himself, not for any organization. Written and hosted by Javier LeivaTheme music by Joe Basile, thechicken.net © 2026 Creative Babble Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ken Urker, Gypsy Rose Blanchard's partner and the father of their daughter, Aurora, died on October 1, 2026, his 34th birthday. The sheriff is still investigating, and no official cause of death has been released. Gypsy has said publicly that she believes it was an overdose, and that she doesn't know whether it was intentional or accidental. Throughout The Gypsy Rose Obsession, Gypsy told me that Ken was struggling with relentless online harassment. The night he died, she texted me three words: "They killed him." In this bonus episode, I talk about what we know so far, who Ken was to Gypsy, what the research says about online harassment, and why I'm worried about Aurora and Gypsy. Whatever you think about Gypsy, a little girl lost her dad this week. Before you post about a real person, remember that a real person is reading it. If you or someone you know is struggling, call or text 988 to reach the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline. Learn more: https://thisispretend.com/blog/gypsy-rose-ken-urker-death/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Gypsy Rose Blanchard thought no one was listening. For years, everything she said from inside Chillicothe was being recorded. Now it's public. More than five hundred hours of it. Some of those recordings broke through on social media, because on them Gypsy and her now ex-husband Ryan can be heard using racial slurs. She eventually apologized publicly for it. But that's not the part that got me. It's what she says about her mother, when there's no camera on and no reason to give a polished answer. Fair warning. This one is rough. Content warning: racist language and racial slurs, child abuse, sexual content involving a child, murder, and self-harm. Written and Produced by Javier Leiva Edited by Puneeth Shenoy | Podcast Pundits https://www.podcastpundits.com/ Music by Joe Basile | thechicken.net Get early access and bonus content PRETEND+ on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/channel/pretend/id6443456985 Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cw/pretendradio Learn More: thisispretend.com © 2026 Creative Babble LLC Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

"I didn't f---ing get my own f---ing mother murdered just so I could live for everybody else." That is Gypsy Rose Blanchard on a recorded prison line, saying the quiet part out loud. She had taken the plea and could never be tried again, so she let her guard down. Then a content creator asked Missouri for the whole archive, and four days later the state sent it to her. So what does Gypsy actually sound like when she thinks nobody is listening? In this episode you will hear: Gypsy doing the math on her own fame. She is going to be rich when she gets out. It seems like everybody in her orbit is trying to figure out how to cash in on the story. Gypsy has a new mom. She tells her stepmother Kristy that Mother's Day is a good holiday and a sad holiday at the same time. You can hear the two of them becoming family in real time. Gypsy threatens Fancy Macelli. Gypsy talks about what she plans to do to Fancy when she gets out of prison. Gypsy at her loneliest. Man after man writes to her after watching her on TV. Gypsy talks about going to a cancer dental clinic. In a call about a broken denture, she mentions the oncology dental clinic that made it and lets slip that they will not take her now that she is not a cancer patient. The internet calls that the smoking gun. Attorney calls leaked. Some of these recordings are conversations with her attorney, Mike Stanfield. I have listened to a lot of these calls and I am sure I missed some. Now, the State of Missouri released the Nick Godejohn's calls too, so there are even more coming. If there is a call you think belongs in this series, tag me on social media and I will get to it. Stick around to the end of the episode, because I want you to meet the other Javier Leiva. He owns javierleiva.com, which is the address most people assume belongs to me. Listener tips and story leads land in his inbox by mistake, including some of the biggest breaks I have ever gotten, and he forwards every one of them my way. We have been talking for years and it turned into a real friendship. His site is javierleiva.com. Mine is thisispretend.com. Our Patreon community has grown into something I am really proud of. Supporters get bonus episodes, early access to new content, and now a private Discord server where we talk in real time about case theories and episodes, plus live video calls with me. Tiers start at $3 a month, and you can find the link at thisispretend.com. Today's episode was written and produced by Javier Leiva. Edited by Puneeth Shenoy with the Podcast Pundits. Theme music by Joe Basile with thechicken.net. Credits read by Beau Hale, PRETEND Patreon supporter. More at https://thisispretend.com 2026 © Creative Babble LLC. All rights reserved. Think I missed a call?Guest shout outJoin us on PatreonCredits Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

There are people online right now who don't believe Dee Dee Blanchard had Munchausen by proxy. Some of them don't believe Munchausen by proxy is a real thing at all. So if the abuse wasn't real, how do you explain the feeding tube, the shaved head, the free trips to Disney? We also discuss the violence in the house leading up to the murder. If Gypsy is the monster, what does that make Dee Dee? For Gypsy critics, the pendulum swings the other way. Justice for Dee Dee, the movement that says the real victim here is the woman who died. Was Dee Dee a sick woman, or was she a con artist with a kid? In this episode: Alaura Flowers and Amber Dietz of Into the Weeds Content creator Audacious Audrey Fancy Macelli of the Good Wives Network Nancy Simpson, host of The Toll podcast Gypsy Rose Blanchard Want more? Ad-free episodes, early releases, and the latest on the stalker case are on Patreon and PRETEND+ on Apple Podcasts. More at thisispretend.com. Written and hosted by Javier LeivaEdited by Puneeth Shenoy with The Podcast PunditsTheme music by Joe Basile, thechicken.net © Creative Babble 2026 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

According to the anti-Gypsy camp, they've found it. The smoking gun. Gypsy Rose Blanchard has a rare genetic disorder, a microdeletion on chromosome 1, and depending on who you ask online, that one word explains the feeding tube, the leukemia, the paralysis. All of it. Which means, according to them, Dee Dee Blanchard wasn't abusing her daughter at all. She was just a mom trying to help a sick kid. So I brought in a genetic counselor and made her explain this thing to me like I'm five, because I am not a geneticist and neither is anyone else arguing about this on TikTok. Kira Dineen, a genetic counselor, walks through what a microdeletion on chromosome 1q21.1 actually is and what it can and can't explain. Featuring Kira Dineen, genetic counselor and host of DNA TodayAndrea Dunlop, host of Nobody Should Believe MeGypsy Rose BlanchardBree, Fancy Macelli, Audacious Audrey, and Amber & Alaura of Into the Weeds Credits Written and hosted by Javier LeivaEdited by Puneeth Shenoy with The Podcast PunditsTheme music by Joe Basile, thechicken.net Listen and support New episodes drop weekly. Early and ad-free episodes are available now on Patreon and Pretend Plus on Apple Podcasts. Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/channel/pretend/id6443456985Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cw/pretendradio Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

According to the anti-Gypsy camp, they've got the receipts. Gypsy really had leukemia. She really needed that bone marrow treatment, and the feeding tube and the surgeries were all real and documented, not fabricated. Case closed, they say. Munchausen by proxy, debunked. That's the claim, anyway. Three hundred pages of Gypsy's private medical records ended up online, and I got my hands on them. So do the documents validate the claims? We're going to dig in. Want more? Ad-free episodes, early releases, and the latest on the stalker case are on Patreon and PRETEND+ on Apple Podcasts. More at thisispretend.com. Written and hosted by Javier Leiva Edited by Puneeth Shenoy with The Podcast Pundits Theme music by Joe Basile, thechicken.net 2026 © Creative Babble Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's like getting to the end of a movie and discovering the twist, then going back to the beginning because every scene means something else. That's what I've been doing all week with the Rick and Tanya Fernandez interviews. This time we're looking at Shelbey Fernandez's surgeries, what the doctor told police in 2019, and new audio from Shelbey Fernandez herself, recorded before her arrest. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Long before Gypsy Rose Blanchard's mother was murdered, the tension inside that house was already at a breaking point. The private videos between Gypsy and Nick Godejohn that nobody was supposed to see. The evidence of violence that the HBO documentary never showed you. And the text messages from the night of June 9th, 2015, read out loud, minute by minute. They are not what you expect. Gypsy's critics say she was the violent one all along. That it was Dee Dee who had reason to be afraid. Chapters 00:00 Everyone Has A Hot Take02:26 The BB Gun04:09 Chained To The Bed05:11 Why Not Just Run Away?07:23 Nancy Simpson: She Was Shopping For A Man09:22 That Bitch Is Dead10:40 Victim Doesn't Mean Innocent11:19 The Plea Deal13:17 When Nick Became The Victim16:16 Functions Like A 10-Year-Old17:52 I Still Love Her18:43 Activating The Dark Side20:34 The Texts From June 9, 201523:58 What Gypsy Makes Of It25:15 Andrea Dunlop On The Autism Argument26:56 Grace And Accountability28:01 Why Don't They Show You The Same Grace?29:35 On The Plea Deal30:15 Is It In All Of Us? Binge more episodes ad-free on Patreon at patreon.com/pretendpodcast or PRETEND+ on Apple Podcasts. Written and produced by Javier Leiva. Edited by Puneet Shenoy with The Podcast Pundits. Theme music by Joe Basile, thechicken.net. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Her critics say Gypsy Rose Blanchard can't keep her story straight. So I sat down with her for almost three hours and asked about all of it. The pills through the feeding tube. The video where she tells Nick Godejohn she'd been hiding that she could walk since she was seven. And the Demona videos she has never addressed in front of a reporter. You'll also meet the mother-daughter team behind Into the Weeds (youtube.com/@into-the-weeds-podcast), whose records requests produced what the internet calls the Gypstein Files. Binge the first three episodes now, ad-free, on Patreon (patreon.com/pretendpodcast) or PRETEND+ on Apple Podcasts. Chapters: (00:00) Beignets And A Drive Into The Bayou (01:50) The Questions Her Critics Say She Dodges (02:36) No Mansion, Just A Fourplex (04:48) The Breaking Point Was A Throat Surgery (06:47) This Is My Voice (08:19) Vicodin Through The Feeding Tube (09:53) Did She Ever Go To School? (11:46) Into The Weeds Files The Records Request (12:59) What's Actually In The Gypstein Files (15:59) The Video Where She Walks (17:46) What Her Medical Records Say (20:43) I Ask Gypsy To Settle It (23:04) Videos Never Meant To Be Public (25:56) Slave, Master, And An Old Facebook Account (28:23) Dan Glidewell Testifies Under Oath (29:46) The Demona Video (34:25) Those Videos Were Disgusting (35:14) Isolation And The Price Of Freedom (36:10) Next Time On Pretend Written by Javier Leiva. Edited by Puneet Shenoy with The Podcast Pundits. Theme music by Joe Basile, thechicken.net. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Gypsy Rose Blanchard is the most beloved convicted murderer in America. Half the country sees a victim. The other half thinks she conned everyone, including her mother. I spent months trying to figure out which side is telling the truth. Then I emailed Gypsy. A few hours later, we were on a call. Chapters (00:00) The Most Beloved Convicted Murderer In America (01:35) The Short Version (02:53) It's All A Lie (03:41) Inside Her Medical Records (05:26) Allergic To Sugar (06:10) The Community That Flipped The Narrative (07:48) Andrea Dunlop Interviews Gypsy (09:41) Then I Read The Comments (11:20) Straight To The Source (11:52) Welcome To The Gypsyverse (13:04) The Internet Does What The Internet Does (15:35) Is Gypsy Rich? (17:22) What Are They A Fan Of? (19:22) Famous vs. Well-Known (20:12) Billboards, Flyers, And A Minor Child (23:14) Nick Godejohn Is Still In Prison (24:18) The Demona Clips (25:54) Would You Answer Uncomfortable Questions? (27:47) Next Time On Pretend (28:24) Update: The Prison Calls (30:28) What I Will And Won't Play Binge the first three episodes now, ad-free, on Patreon (patreon.com/pretendpodcast) or PRETEND+ on Apple Podcasts. Leave a comment. I want to know what you think. Written by Javier Leiva. Edited by Puneeth Shenoy with the Podcast Pundits. Theme music by Joe Basile, thechicken.net. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Gypsy Rose Blanchard is America's most beloved convicted murderer. The media told us she spent 23 years in a wheelchair, with a feeding tube, a breathing machine, and a diagnosis list that never ended. None of it was real. Her mother made it all up. And then Gypsy had her mother stabbed to death. When she walked out of prison in December 2023, not everyone was celebrating. A community formed online working together to dismantle her new life. So yeah. America's sweetheart is also a convicted murderer. And depending on who you ask, she's either the most sympathetic person alive, or the most dangerous woman on the internet. This is The Gypsy Rose Obsession. Coming August 11th on PRETEND podcast. Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2vaCjR7UvlN9aTIzW6kNCo?si=b3549d886084412a Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For almost five years, the Fernandez family told me their doctor's husband was terrorizing them. Threatening messages, unpaid pizza deliveries, police at the door for crimes that never happened. Three weeks ago, Peoria police surrounded their house with a search warrant and seized every device inside. Nobody was arrested that day. Then this week, Shelbey Fernandez children was booked into a Maricopa County jail on more than thirty counts, including stalking, making a terrorist threat, and sexual exploitation of a minor. All charges are allegations. No one has been convicted, and the case is ongoing. Catch up on the full series here: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/41KG24W8b5Lz0dzHsU3LoP?si=3aaeef5a367d4c2d Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

William Ruzich's father stole his identity while he was deployed in Afghanistan. He came home from war at 21 to find bills, liens, and creditors in his own name. He turned his own dad in for fraud. Then he went to work catching people just like him. William is a private intelligence operative now, tracking down scammers, fraudsters, and people who vanish with other people's money. Coming August 11th: The Gypsy Rose Obsession, a new free series from PRETEND. Watch the trailer and subscribe: https://youtu.be/9fcD0os3aG8 Kingdom Forge, a book by Anders Edwards that teaches kids about online safety, Diary of a Wimpy Kid meets Ready Player One. Check it out: https://a.co/d/0hpgdcYx Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

My friend Joe sells real estate. He called me about one of his clients, a retired nurse who was selling her house, because something about her story wasn't sitting right with him. She'd lost her savings to a man named Edward Smog. Found her online, quoted her scripture, told her he was her way out of debt. By the time I got involved, she was out a hundred and fifty grand. Now a new scammer is coming after her. She believes he's an offshore oil rig worker, and they're going to get married. I'm trying to stop him before he takes any more of her money. If you or someone you love is being targeted, here's where to go. To report it, the FBI runs the Internet Crime Complaint Center at ic3.gov, and the FTC takes reports at reportfraud.ftc.gov. If you want to talk to a real person for free, call the National Elder Fraud Hotline run by the Department of Justice at 833-372-8311, seven days a week, 6am to 11pm Eastern. You can also reach the AARP Fraud Watch Network Helpline at 877-908-3360. Tips for your elderly parents: No real grant, agency, or lottery ever asks you to pay a fee to get money. Gift cards, wire transfers to strangers, and crypto are how scammers get paid. Full stop. If you've never met someone in person on a live video call, assume you don't know who they are. Ask for that video call right now, not later. Take a screenshot of their photos and run a reverse image search. The excuses will tell you everything. And before any money moves, tell one person who loves you. Out loud. The scam only survives in the quiet. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Darnell Emanuel spent years inside Rony Denis's inner circle at the House of Prayer Christian Church. His name is on documents. His credit was used to buy houses he never lived in. But when the fraud finally caught up with the church, Darnell wasn't indicted. In this bonus, Darnell walks us through the burner phones, the code names, and how the whole scheme worked. Plus, an update on Marjorie Denis. And what's happening at NTCC since the series aired. The next two episodes are available right now on Patreon and PRETEND+ on Apple Podcasts. Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cw/pretendradio Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/channel/pretend/id6443456985 Follow @pretendpod: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@pretendpod TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@pretendpod Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pretendpod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We've covered a lot of PRETENDers on this show. But the guy in this one might take the prize. Carlos Henrique Raposo, better known as Kaiser, fooled the entire professional soccer world in Brazil for 26 years. He signed with more than 30 clubs. He partied with George Michael. He got protected by Rio's most dangerous crime boss. He once punched a fan in the face rather than actually step on the field. And through all of it, he barely played a single real game. This week we're revisiting one of our favorite conversations: an interview with Louis Myles, director of the 2015 documentary "Kaiser! The Greatest Footballer Never to Play Football." Myles and his team spent 18 months in Rio chasing down the truth, or something close to it, behind Brazil's greatest football legend who never actually played football. Watch the documentary: "Kaiser! The Greatest Footballer Never to Play Football" (2015) is streaming on Amazon Prime. Also from Louis Myles: "Mighty Penguins," following the Brentford Penguins, a football team made up of players with Down syndrome, as they prepare to serve as guard of honour at a Premier League match. It premiered at the Tribeca Film Festival in 2023 and is currently on the festival circuit. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week, Javier stops by the Hot Mess Happy Hour Podcast and it didn't disappoint. It was a hot mess! About Hot Mess Happy Hour: Are you always running late? Do you leave things on top of your car and drive off? You might be a hot mess too so this podcast is for you! Laugh along as we share crazy hot mess stories during our weekly happy hour with yours truly. We'll also share tips and tricks for those affected by ADHD like your host, Susan Cokas! So grab a cocktail and get ready to laugh! It's Hot Mess Happy Hour! Check out the Hot Mess Happy Hour: https://hotmesshappyhour.buzzsprout.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Federal prosecutors say the man known as Rony Denis isn't Rony Denis at all. The arrest finally came in the fall of 2025. Three years after the FBI raids. But the church is still operating. So my friend Jared Smith from the Heliocentric YouTube channel and I drove down to Fayetteville to attend a Sunday service and see what's left of the House of Prayer Christian Church. And the whole sermon, it turned out, felt aimed at two specific people in the pews. This is the final chapter of the Chain of Command series. But it ain't over yet. Watch Jared's Atheist Church Audits on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@HeliocentricOfficial Written and Produced by Javier Leiva Edited by Puneeth Shenoy | Podcast Pundits https://www.podcastpundits.com/ Music by Joe Basile | thechicken.net Get early access and bonus content PRETEND+ on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/channel/pretend/id6443456985 Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cw/pretendradio © 2026 Creative Babble LLC Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In Part 6, the FBI comes knocking. Rony Denis and his top associates allegedly defrauded the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs and military veterans out of more than $23.5 million. The House of Prayer Bible Seminary looked like a school. Veterans used their GI Bill benefits to enroll, paying the church hundreds of dollars a month for classes that led nowhere and credits worth nothing outside these walls. Rony Denis is still a free man. But not for long. Written and Produced by Javier Leiva Edited by Puneeth Shenoy | Podcast Pundits https://www.podcastpundits.com/ Music by Joe Basile | thechicken.net Get early access and bonus content PRETEND+ on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/channel/pretend/id6443456985 Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cw/pretendradio © 2026 Creative Babble LLC Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Rony Denis wasn't just the spiritual leader at the House of Prayer Christian Church... He was their god. In Part 5, former members start connecting the dots on how Rony Denis consolidated control, and it's worse than you think. He ordered members to smash their own phones in front of the congregation. He commanded public confessions. And when he set his eyes on something he wanted, whether that was another man's wife or a ten-year-old boy, he found a way to take it. Written and Produced by Javier Leiva Edited by Puneeth Shenoy | Podcast Pundits https://www.podcastpundits.com/ Music by Joe Basile | thechicken.net Get early access and bonus content — join on Patreon or try PRETEND+ free on Apple Podcasts. Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cw/pretendradio Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/channel/pretend/id6443456985 © 2026 Creative Babble LLC Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I teamed up with Carter Roy for a special guest collaboration on Murder: True Crime Stories and this one is something else. For the full episode, follow Murder: True Crime Stories on your favorite podcast app: https://pod.link/1745145932In November 2006, Abraham Shakespeare won $30 million in the Florida Lottery. He couldn't read or write, and within two years he'd given most of it away to anyone who asked. Then Dee Dee Moore showed up promising to protect what was left — and within months, she had his house, his insurance, and his power of attorney. Not long after, Abe vanished. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Note: This episode contains graphic descriptions of sexual abuse and psychological manipulation. It started with a revolt. Thirty ministers walked out of NTCC mid-service and never looked back. They thought they were done with high-control leadership, mandatory tithing, and pastors who ruled by fear. They were wrong. In this episode, former pastor Arlen Bradeen and Greg Shepard tell us what happened when they followed Rony Denis to Georgia — and what it cost them to finally get out. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In part three of Chain of Command, we hear from those who grew up in the New Testament Christian Churches of America. From Victor Johanson, a former Army soldier who confirms on tape that NTCC ministers got vasectomies because children would interfere with their ministry. From a woman we're calling Kaylee, who was raised inside the church and was groomed and assaulted by a family member who was also an NTCC minister. And we look at how the church's CEO, Michael Kekel, has publicly stated at one point that no church is under a legal obligation to report child abuse. This episode discusses sexual assault and the grooming of minors. Please take care while listening. Want to keep going? Bonus episodes featuring the full unedited conversations with Victor Johanson and Kaylee are available right now on PRETEND+ on Apple Podcasts and on Patreon. You'll get bonus episodes and full access to the PRETEND archive. Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/channel/pretend/id6443456985 Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cw/pretendradio Resources mentioned in this episode: Stay Away From NTCC (former member YouTube channel run by Tracy Pelfrey) The Mountain News (Bruce Smith's reporting on NTCC) Washington State Senate Bill 5375 (clergy mandatory reporting law, May 2025) Support and resources: If you or someone you know is currently serving in the military and feels pressured by a religious group, you have options. Military OneSource is available 24/7 at 1-800-342-9647. Your installation chaplain can also provide confidential support across all faiths. If you're a former member of NTCC or another high-control group and looking for support, the International Cultic Studies Association at icsahome.com offers resources, recovery workshops, and a directory of professionals familiar with high-control group recovery. If you've experienced sexual assault, RAINN's National Sexual Assault Hotline is available 24/7 at 1-800-656-HOPE (4673), or online at rainn.org. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Part one was about control. Part two is about the money. Behind the soul-winning and the sermons and the bylaws, the New Testament Christian Churches of America runs a very well-funded business. Tithing is tracked, enforced, and tied to your military paycheck. Fall behind and you go before the general board. Fall further behind and you lose your credentials. So where does the tithing money go? Church CEO Michael Kekel told his congregation they owed $25,000 a year in property taxes on the fellowship hall. But tax records tell a different story. The fellowship hall paid $9.65. The $25,000? That's the bill on a personal house in the name of Kekel's wife. In this episode: -Tracy Pelfrey, former NTCC member of 17 years -Bruce Smith, reporter, The Mountain News, who has covered NTCC for nearly two decades -Sarah DeJonghe, former Navy Seabee and NTCC ex-member -Archival recordings of R.W. Davis, founder of NTCC -Archival recordings of Michael Kekel, CEO of NTCC Next time on Pretend: Former members say that NTCC fosters a culture where adult men courting teenage girls isn't just tolerated — it's encouraged. That's next time. Listen to Part 3 now: Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cw/pretendradio Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/channel/pretend/id6443456985 If you or someone you know is currently serving in the military and feels pressured by a religious group or organization, you have options. The Military OneSource confidential helpline is available 24/7 at 1-800-342-9647. You can also reach out to your installation chaplain, who can provide confidential support across all faiths and no faith at all. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In 1996, Sarah DeJonghe was a 20-year-old Navy Seabee stationed in Okinawa, Japan. Two guys in uniform approached her on base and invited her to church. She said no. They came back anyway. Four months later, Sarah was out of the Navy and on her way to a Bible seminary in Washington State. She didn't see it coming. Neither did the dozens of other military members who found themselves drawn into the New Testament Christian Churches of America, a church that has spent decades planting itself outside US military bases around the world, marketing itself as a home away from home for single, lonely soldiers. Former members say it's a cult. Want to keep going? Part Two is available right now on PRETEND+ on Apple Podcasts and on Patreon. You'll get every episode of this series ad-free and a week early, plus bonus episodes and full access to the PRETEND archive. Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/channel/pretend/id6443456985 Patreon: www.patreon.com/cw/pretendradio Resources mentioned in this episode: NTCC bylaws (publicly available): https://myntcc.org/bylaws/ Stay Away From NTCC (former member YouTube channel run by Tracy Pelfrey) - https://www.youtube.com/@StayAwayFromNTCC Bruce Smith's reporting at The Mountain News Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A Colorado businessman with a criminal record, no credit, and a gift for charm somehow convinced dozens of women to finance his cars, his home, and his lifestyle. When they finally compared notes, they didn't get mad. They got organized. This is the story of Bill Sullivan, and the self-appointed militia of scorned women who banded together to take him down: Operation Cockblock. Before you go: Stick around for a sneak peek at Chain of Command, PRETEND's new investigative series about a secretive church that brands itself a "ministry to the military" and has been operating near U.S. military bases around the world. 🎧 Listen now on PRETEND+ on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/channel/pretend/id6443456985 💙 Or on Patreon: https://patreon.com/pretendradio?utm_medium=unknown&utm_source=join_link&utm_campaign=creatorshare_creator&utm_content=copyLink Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Somebody went through hundreds of Reddit comments asking what the greatest podcast episode of all time is, then actually listened to all of them. That somebody is Ivy, the creator behind @watchandlisten.ivy on TikTok, and she has been going viral ever since. In this episode we go through the ones that kept coming up: Reply All: "The Case of the Missing Hit" https://open.spotify.com/episode/0CaOGo6xSN51B2aLAQa1kU Heavyweight: "Gregor" https://open.spotify.com/episode/6LKrLVEAY3tsqHPURec6ke Mystery Show: "Belt Buckle" https://open.spotify.com/episode/7niwu8ksl85o2GP2IUEJdA Radiolab: "Colors" https://open.spotify.com/episode/7ugEsqx79eit9kFVw5xN7a You're Wrong About: "Andes Flight 571" https://open.spotify.com/episode/2Tqgu60WVXQWYMqiwWy5F7 Love and Radio: "The Living Room" https://open.spotify.com/episode/1HQSZAsQ78AanIb68NChHC Follow Ivy: @watchandlisten.ivy https://www.tiktok.com/@watchandlisten.ivy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On January 6th, 2021, Pam Hemphill followed the Proud Boys to the Capitol, got trampled by the mob, was carried out by a police officer named Joe, and recorded every minute of it. The internet called her the MAGA Granny. She did 60 days in federal prison. And then, slowly, she woke up. When Trump issued sweeping pardons for more than 1,500 January 6th defendants, Pam did something almost no one else did. She said no. She filed a formal letter of rejection, returned to the Capitol to apologize to officers in person, received death threats, lost a 12-year relationship, and kept talking anyway. In a series about people who got pardons they didn’t deserve, Pam Hemphill is the one who deserved consideration and walked away from it anyway. You’ve heard about January 6th. You think you know the story. You don’t know it like this. Quick Links •  FBI Affidavit (Case 1:21-cr-00555-RCL): Read the original charging document https://jan6attack.com/DoJ/hemphill-pamela/1469486.pdf •  Pam Hemphill’s Wikipedia Page: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamela_Hemphill •  Pam’s January 6th Testimony (PBS, January 6, 2026): Watch on PBS NewsHour •  Trump’s Truth Social Post (via HuffPost): Read the coverage •  Pam’s Pardon Rejection (NPR): Listen and read on NPR Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

My cousin spent 23 years in an Illinois prison for a crime she says she didn't know she was committing. She was 33 when a judge handed down a 60-year sentence. She would have been 93 before she saw the outside again. This episode is personal. In "Only God Pardons," we follow my cousin Iris (not her real name) through the Illinois clemency system: what it takes to apply, what the odds actually look like, and what it means to finally get out, only to discover that freedom comes with its own kind of sentence. Along the way, we hear from Margaret Byrne, a Chicago attorney who has spent 45 years fighting for people inside Illinois prisons who shouldn't be there, including the women she represented through the Illinois Clemency Project for Battered Women. And we talk to Jeff Grant, attorney, minister, and co-founder of the White Collar Support Group, who argues that the pardon system doesn't go nearly far enough and who is pushing Congress to add federal expungement as a tool alongside clemency. We also look at what's happening at the federal level, where a booming paid-pardon industry has taken root around the White House. According to federal lobbying disclosures, clients paid firms more than five million dollars in 2025 just to get their clemency cases in front of the president, eight times what was spent seeking pardons from the Biden administration. And then there's Rod Blagojevich, the former Illinois governor convicted of corruption, commuted by Trump in 2020 and fully pardoned in his second term, a man who turned the governor's office into a shakedown operation, pardoned by a president who turned clemency into currency for whoever could afford the cover charge. Meanwhile, my cousin filed her petition the right way. Through the right channels. And waited. In this episode: Margaret Byrne, founder of the Illinois Clemency Project for Battered Women and veteran clemency attorney Jeff Grant, attorney, minister, and co-founder of the White Collar Support Group and the Federal Expungement Initiative Learn more: White Collar Support Group: whitecollaradvice.org Federal Expungement Initiative: contact Jeff Grant through the White Collar Support Group Illinois Prisoner Review Board: illinois.gov/agencies/prisoner-review-board Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Content Warning: This episode contains detailed descriptions of nursing home neglect, including accounts of residents found in unsanitary conditions. Listener discretion is advised. You're about to hear the story of a man who built a nursing home empire from a tiny office above a pizza parlor in New Jersey. His name is Joseph Schwartz. At its peak, his company Skyline Healthcare owned or operated more than 100 facilities across eleven states. What happened inside those facilities (the rationed diapers, the unpaid bills, the maggots, the residents left without food or clean water) is one of the cruelest stories of corporate neglect you will hear this year. When Schwartz finally got convicted of defrauding the government out of $38 million, he started making calls. In this episode, we'll follow the money from a nursing home empire to a presidential pardon, and then to a violent extortion plot that ended with an FBI arrest in Midtown Manhattan. EPISODE RESOURCES & SHOW NOTES ARTICLES & INVESTIGATIONS Brookings Register: Wave of SD nursing home closures hitting hardest in rural small towns URL: https://www.brookingsregister.com/article/wave-of-sd-nursing-home-closures-hitting-hardest-in-rural-small-towns Arkansas Advocate: Nursing home owner pardoned by Trump ordered to serve state sentence URL: https://arkansasadvocate.com Arkansas Democrat-Gazette (2019): Firm's fall risked care in homes for frail URL: https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2019/apr/28/firm-s-fall-risked-care-homes-frail-201/ Arkansas Democrat-Gazette (2025): Judge orders former nursing home magnate to prison URL: https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2025/dec/18/arkansas-judge-orders-former-nursing-home-magnate/ The Washington Post: Joseph Schwartz Trump Pardon Fraud (Coverage of the $960k lobbying effort) URL: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/11/23/joseph-schwartz-trump-pardon-fraud/ The New York Times: Pardon Industry Offers Rich Offenders a Path to Trump The New York Times: Trump Pardons: Lobbyist Charged in Extortion Attempt Philadelphia Coverage: Skyline Healthcare: Scenes from the collapse of a nursing-home operator by Harold Brubaker BROADCAST COVERAGE NBC Nightly News: Nursing Home Chain Collapses Amid Allegation Of Unpaid Bills, Poor Care KELOLAND News: Skyline Healthcare owner facing federal charges PRIMARY SOURCE DOCUMENTS State Petition: Attorney General Tim Griffin's Petition to force Schwartz to serve his state sentence URL: https://arkansasadvocate.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Arkansas-v-Schwartz-12022025-Motion.pdf State Civil Lawsuit: State of South Dakota ex rel. Jason Ravnsborg v. Joseph Schwartz, et al. (Case No. 32CIV22-000010) Federal Criminal Complaint: U.S. v. Joshua Nass (Attempted extortion affidavit, Case No. 26-MJ-54) Lobbying Disclosures: Federal filings for Joshua Nass (Merkava Strategies Corporation) and Jack Burkman (J.M. Burkman & Associates) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You know that little bottle of 5-Hour Energy sitting on the counter of almost every gas station in America? Someone was faking it. Millions of bottles, mixed by hand in a filthy warehouse by day laborers with no training, no sanitation licenses, and no recipe. Just plastic barrels, canoe paddles, and industrial chemicals that may not have been approved for human consumption. In this episode, you meet Geoffrey Potter, an anti-counterfeiting attorney at Patterson, Belknap, Webb and Tyler who only takes cases where the fake product can kill you. Think of him as a private prosecutor with powers most people don't even know a private attorney can have. He helped bring down one of the most sophisticated food counterfeiting operations in US history. You'll also learn what happened after the convictions. How a woman with no obvious connection to the President of the United States managed to secure not one, but two acts of presidential clemency. And how, just 42 days after walking out of prison, she was already running a $59 million scheme in the background. This is the story of Adriana Camberos — a woman who was convicted twice, freed twice, and is still out there. This series is called I Beg Your Pardon for a reason. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Twelve days. That’s how long David Gentile spent in federal prison for a $1.8 billion fraud that wiped out the retirement savings of 17,000 people. On Thanksgiving 2025, President Trump signed a one-page clemency grant, commuting Gentile’s seven-year sentence to time served and erasing a $15 million restitution order in the process. In this episode, we talk to one of those 17,000 victims, CarolAnn Tutera, a 70-year-old still working because she can’t afford not to. We also talk to securities fraud attorney Adam Gana and Ponzi Playbook co-host Neal McTighe about how the scheme worked, what the pardon means, and what it says about the current climate for white collar crime. CarolAnn Tutera GPB Capital investor and CEO of Tutera Medical tuteramedical.com Adam Gana Securities fraud attorney, Gana LLP ganalawfirm.com/adam-gana Neal McTighe Co-host, Ponzi Playbook podcast Ponzi Playbook on Spotify The Conviction and Sentencing DOJ Press Release justice.gov The Blueprint of the Fraud SEC Civil Complaint sec.gov The White House Response Forbes Breaking News — search: “Karoline Leavitt Asked About Trump’s Commutation Of Private Equity CEO’s Fraud Sentence” 00:00  CarolAnn’s Story 04:06  David Gentile’s Promise 04:38  I Beg Your Pardon 07:02  How a Ponzi Scheme Works 14:21  The Smoking Gun Emails 15:47  CarolAnn’s $400K 16:42  The Takedown 18:38  The Verdict 19:22  The Pardon 20:06  The White House Response 23:12  Restitution Wiped Out 29:51  The Pay-to-Play Pattern 33:41  The Perfect Storm GuestsResourcesChapters36:44  Ponzi Playbook Returns Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jerry Bush was a plumber from Virginia with fourteen employees, a wife battling cancer, and a business his father built from nothing. When a big construction job left him waiting on $350,000 he'd already earned, he did what you'd probably do. He looked for a loan. The man who picked up the phone was named Jonathan Braun. Before Braun found Jerry, he was running a half-billion dollar international drug smuggling operation. After he found Jerry, he froze his bank account, drained his father's retirement, took money from his 16-year-old son, and told Jerry his only way out was to win the lottery or die. And then things got worse. By the time it was over, Jerry Bush had lost his business, his savings, and nearly his life. Jonathan Braun had a Ferrari, a Lamborghini, a personal butler, and a very powerful friend. What happens next will make you question everything you think you know about who the justice system is actually designed to protect and who it leaves behind. I Beg Your Pardon is a new investigative series from PRETEND. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

CONTENT WARNING: Graphic content. Listener discretion is advised.   Who’s Afraid of LaDonna Humphrey — Revisited A lot of people ask: where should I start if I just discovered PRETEND? The answer is always LaDonna. It’s been almost two years since the first episode of Who’s Afraid of LaDonna Humphrey dropped — and this one is still mind-blowing. Whether you’re a first-time listener or coming back to revisit, this is the place to start. In this episode, we’re replaying Part One. It’s a hell of an introduction. 🎧 Want the full series? We’ve put together a Spotify playlist with all the episodes and updates, tidied up in one place. Check it out below. ➡️ Listen to the full LaDonna Humphrey playlist on Spotify   https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2LOnqAGe8D4JQ4bAwjGn9P?si=54f21cbedfb640f8 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I want to share a quick update about the "Hand That Held Me" series. Due to some recent developments, I’ve made the decision to postpone the release. I know many of you were expecting it, and I’m sorry for the change. These situations can be complex, and I want to make sure I handle the story the right way. This also leaves an unexpected three-week gap in the schedule while I prepare the next series. I appreciate your patience as I work to queue up what’s coming next. Thank you, as always, for listening and for trusting the work. — Javier Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We conclude one of the most disturbing series ever covered on this podcast. Here are parts 3 and 4 of the Pests. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This week, we're revisiting one of the most terrifying series ever produced for PRETEND. It's about a gang-stalking internet group known as The Pests. Content Advisory: This episode is disturbing and includes language and topics not suitable for all audiences. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Look, I'm not anti-private school. You want your kid to learn in an environment that matches your beliefs? Cool. To each their own. But should your neighbors be paying for it? North Carolina is funneling half a billion dollars into private schools with almost zero oversight. 87% of new voucher money is going to families who were already paying for private school. Meanwhile, public schools are losing funding and teachers are getting paid near the bottom in the country. In this episode, I talk to a former student, a policy researcher, and a reporter who couldn't find a school that was cashing state checks. Spoiler: it took her seven addresses to track it down. Stephen Cordes — Former student at the Word of Faith Christian School in Spindale, NC Kris Nordstrom — Senior Policy Analyst, NC Justice Center Education & Law Project https://www.ncjustice.org/author/kris-nordstrom/ Blair Reeves — Executive Director, Carolina Forward https://carolinaforward.org/about/ Ann Doss Helms — Former Education Reporter, WFAE (Charlotte's NPR station). 22 years covering education in Charlotte. https://www.wfae.org/people/ann-doss-helms Kris Nordstrom's voucher discrepancy analysis (NC Justice Center) https://www.ncjustice.org/analysis-nc-private-school-voucher-program/ Ann Doss Helms' reporting on TAS Academy (WFAE): Charlotte private school had more vouchers than students: https://www.wfae.org/education/2023-06-27/charlotte-private-school-had-more-vouchers-than-students-and-wheres-the-building The elusive voucher school — some answers and lingering questions: https://www.wfae.org/education/2023-08-01/charlottes-elusive-voucher-school-some-answers-and-lingering-questions Elusive voucher school has a new address in Harrisburg: https://www.wfae.org/education/2024-03-07/elusive-voucher-school-has-a-new-address-in-harrisburg-and-students-are-there Carolina Forward https://carolinaforward.org NC Justice Center — Education & Law Project https://www.ncjustice.org PRETEND Season 3 — Word of Faith Fellowship https://www.pretendradio.org If you live in North Carolina and you have an opinion about how your tax dollars are being spent on private school vouchers, let your legislators know. They work for you. Find your NC state representative and senator: https://www.ncleg.gov/findyourlegislators Call the NC General Assembly directly: 919-733-4111 (ask to speak to your representative or senator) Public Schools First NC also has a full contact list with emails for every member of the General Assembly, including education committee members: https://publicschoolsfirstnc.org/engage/contact-elected-officials/ You don't have to live in North Carolina to care about this. If your state has a voucher program, find out where the money's going. Ask the questions nobody else is asking. Got a story idea? Hit me up: javier@pretendradio.org GuestsResources & Further ReadingMake Your Voice HeardContact Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey guys, it's Javier here with a new recommendation! I've come across a true crime podcast that I just had to share with you all. It's called 'Everything They Missed' and it's hosted by Stephanie Tinsley. This podcast dives deep into the possible wrongful conviction and police mishandling of the Danny Harris case, a particularly gruesome murder that was mishandled from the get-go. What sets this podcast apart is Stephanie's dedication to uncovering the truth, including hiring her own private investigator https://www.everythingtheymissed.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Criminals have been impersonating ICE agents, using fake badges to rape, rob, kidnap, and terrorize communities across America. These imposters have conducted workplace raids, street stops, and home invasions. They wear tactical gear, drive unmarked vehicles, and ask "Are you a U.S. citizen?" Our investigation documented 13 cases spanning from 2016 to last week. We also talk with Laura Jadeed, a reporter who received a job offer from ICE despite skipping most of the application process. Content Warning: This episode contains descriptions of sexual assault, police violence, and the deaths of U.S. citizens. Listener discretion is advised. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Patreon supporter Kenito Wills joins Javier to break down the finale of the "Didn't See It Coming" series. They talk through Susanne Wilson calling off the reading at the last minute. Did she know it was a sting? Did she just have a bad feeling? Javier shares a detail that got cut from the episode: Suzanne actually arranged for the fake family to get a reading with another medium in Europe, which suggests she wasn't 100% sure it was a setup. Plus: Kenito and Javier swap palm reading stories from college. Kenito was told he'd have five kids (he didn't). Javier was told he'd meet the love of his life right after a bad breakup (he did). The takeaway isn't that psychics aren't real or that you can't grieve however you want. It's that if someone mentions Reynolds Wrap and your maiden name is Reynolds, maybe ask some questions. Susan Gerbic's YouTube channel "Psychics Explained" has dozens of videos documenting Operation Banana Cream Pie and other investigations. Link in the show notes. Watch the full videos of Operation Banana Cream Pie on Susan Gerbic's YouTube page: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcSfdioxwHQGkyFZ68maphdIJuYcb8xln Want to see more psychic stings? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The sting is set. The bait is in place. Six skeptics are logged into a Zoom call, pretending to be grieving siblings. They've paid $1,400 for a private reading with a medium Susan Gerbic believes is a hot reader. Months of planning have led to this moment. And then... the medium does something no one expected. In the finale of this three-part series, we find out what happened to Operation Banana Cream Pie. Then, Susan shares recordings from other readings she's analyzed, walking us through what she believes is evidence of hot reading in action. We break down the techniques, examine the receipts, and let you decide what it all means. Watch the full videos of Operation Banana Cream Pie on Susan Gerbic's YouTube page: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcSfdioxwHQGkyFZ68maphdIJuYcb8xln Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Patreon supporter Christine Harnos (not the Star Trek actress, the other one) joins Javier to break down Part 2 of the "Didn't See It Coming" series before listening to the finale. They get into the weeds on Susan Gerbic's sting setup: the Facebook accounts she's been maintaining for years, the fake obituary, the hog farm detail. If a psychic mentions pigs, you know something's up. They also discuss the difference between hot reading and cold reading, why "scientifically tested" doesn't mean what mediums want you to think it means, and the troubling relationship between psychic mediums and grief support organizations like Helping Parents Heal. Christine also shares a strange, unexplainable moment from her own life involving her daughter and a daycare power outage. Want more? Susan Gerbic documented the entire Operation Banana Cream Pie sting on her YouTube channel "Psychics Explained"—20+ videos of behind-the-scenes footage. Link in the show notes. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcSfdioxwHQGkyFZ68maphdIJuYcb8xln Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In Part 1, we watched skeptic Susan Gerbic dissect a celebrity psychic's cold reading techniques. But cold reading is the little leagues of the psychic industry. In Part 2, Susan sets her sights on something harder to catch... a hot reader. Hot reading is when a psychic does their homework, researching their clients before the reading even starts. So Susan devises an elaborate sting: fake Facebook accounts, fake obituaries, fake family members, and $1,400 worth of bait designed to catch a medium in the act. Six skeptics go undercover as grieving siblings. They don't know each other. They don't know the backstory. And they have no idea what's about to happen. This episode takes you inside "Operation Banana Cream Pie." Let's just say, the moment the medium logs onto the Zoom call, no one saw it coming. ABOUT SUSAN GERBIC: Susan Gerbic is a Fellow of the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry and founder of Guerrilla Skepticism on Wikipedia, a group that has written over 2,000 Wikipedia articles on science and pseudoscience — viewed more than 200 million times. Her most famous investigation, "Operation Pizza Roll," was featured in The New York Times Magazine and exposed medium Thomas John's hot reading techniques. Susan runs the nonprofit About Time, which funds her ongoing psychic investigations. Want more? Susan Gerbic documented the entire Operation Banana Cream Pie sting on her YouTube channel "Psychics Explained"—20+ videos of behind-the-scenes footage. Link in the show notes. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcSfdioxwHQGkyFZ68maphdIJuYcb8xln LINKS & RESOURCES: Susan Gerbic's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PsychicsExplained About Time Project: https://www.abouttimeproject.org/ NYT Magazine feature on Operation Pizza Roll: https://archive.ph/20190226135004/https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/26/magazine/psychics-skeptics-facebook.html Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Longtime Patreon supporter Rebecca Catalfu joins Javier to unpack her firsthand experience going undercover at Matt Fraser's psychic readings. Rebecca went into this investigation as a believer and came out the other side with a very different perspective. In this conversation, she and Javier break down the patterns they observed across multiple readings: the decision tree (grandparent, parent, or mystery), the "who is that to you?" fishing technique, the stop statements psychics use when they're not getting hits, and the emotional bell curve that takes grievers to rock bottom before lifting them back up with platitudes. Rebecca also shares what it was like to make it into the virtual "panelist waiting room," the inconsistencies she noticed while analyzing readings for Susan's YouTube channel, and why she's most concerned about the predatory potential these readings pose to vulnerable people. Plus: Javier attempts his own cold reading. It does not go well. LINKS: Susan Gerbic's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PsychicsExplained Matt Fraser Playlist: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcSfdioxwHQGkyFZ68maphdIJuYcb8xln Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Skeptic Susan Gerbic invited PRETEND inside one of her psychic sting operations. In Part 1 of this three-part series, we go inside "Operation Gobble Gotcha," a Thanksgiving sting targeting celebrity psychic Matt Fraser. Susan and her team of volunteers infiltrate one of Matt's online group readings to observe his techniques in real time. What they witness isn't a connection to the other side. It's a technique called cold reading. And once you see it, you can't unsee it. BINGE ALL THREE EPISODES: Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/posts/didnt-see-it-2-147839354?utm_medium=clipboard_copy&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=postshare_creator&utm_content=join_link PRETEND+ on Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/channel/pretend/id6443456985 ABOUT SUSAN GERBIC: Susan Gerbic is a Fellow of the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry and founder of Guerrilla Skepticism on Wikipedia, a group that has written over 2,000 Wikipedia articles on science and pseudoscience — viewed more than 200 million times. Her most famous investigation, "Operation Pizza Roll," was featured in The New York Times Magazine and exposed medium Thomas John's hot reading techniques. Susan runs the nonprofit About Time, which funds her ongoing psychic investigations. LINKS & RESOURCES: Susan Gerbic's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@PsychicsExplained About Time Project: https://www.abouttimeproject.org/ NYT Magazine feature on Operation Pizza Roll: https://archive.ph/20190226135004/https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/26/magazine/psychics-skeptics-facebook.html Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

PRETEND's first live YouTube AMA, co-hosted by Patreon supporter Katie Watson. The conversation covers listener questions about the making of PRETEND, behind-the-scenes stories, and what's coming next. Highlights include: how Javier knows when a story is worth pursuing (hint: it's like fishing) and his techniques for getting interview subjects to let their guard down. He shares updates on past subjects including LaDonna and Frank Abagnale. Looking ahead to 2026: Season 25 kicks off next week with psychic stings featuring undercover Patreon supporters. Also coming: State of Corruption (North Carolina), a caught-on-camera confessional, and a Word of Faith Fellowship update—the DA supposed to try the case is now on trial himself. 00:00 Intro 02:53 Katie's Podcast Journey 04:08 The Art of Storytelling 06:09 Balancing Bias in Journalism 07:49 Building Trust with Interviewees 13:33 Balancing Podcasting and Life 14:55 Ponzi Playbook & Criminal Conduct 17:22 Scariest Interview Subjects 20:08 LaDonna Updates 26:15 Red Flags and Trust 27:37 Telepathy Tapes 30:58 The Truth in Storytelling 34:36 Interview Techniques 37:20 Biggest Challenges in Podcasting 39:14 Balancing Truth and Twists 42:37 Family Reactions 44:11 Maintaining Neutrality 45:19 Dream Project: Speed Dial 46:56 What's Coming in 2026 50:06 Proudest Series 58:35 Word of Faith Update 01:03:33 Season 25 Announcement Blind Dave (Katie's YouTube show "Only in the UK"): https://youtube.com/@blinddave88 Decoding the Unknown: https://youtube.com/@decodingtheunknown2373 The Greatest Hoax on Earth by Alan Logan: https://a.co/d/gIHDef2 ChaptersLinks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A Montana oncologist allegedly treated patients for cancer they never had and made millions doing it. We're re-releasing our two-part investigation into Dr. Thomas Weiner, plus a brand new interview with whistleblower Dr. Randy Sasich on what's happened since. The medical board finally revoked Weiner's license, but criminal charges still loom, a wrongful death lawsuit is underway, and the broken system that enabled this hasn't changed. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices