新新人类 Pixel Perfect – Détails, épisodes et analyse

【聊了什么The What】 这一期节目里，两位从小看网文长大的主播马修和一闻终于有机会交流他们当年痴迷网文的故事。从男频到女频，唐家三少到水千丞，沧月到郭敬明，晋江到知乎，马修和一闻给严肃文学爱好者安蕤一点点科普网文的前世今生，最后安蕤才意识到她其实也看过不少网文，只不过是以纸质书的形式。 让我们没想到的是，当年专属于年轻人的 guilty pleasure 竟然一步步发展成了价值千亿的文化产业，原本的 txt 文件和文字中的人物变成了现在全球大火的电视剧和一线明星，我们的消费方式也从白嫖变成付费，单章购买变成付费订阅，结果又被互联网大厂带回免费阅读时代。到了今天，没有几个人能逃过网文的文化影响，网文不再是只配在被窝里看的小众爱好了，那它算不算完成了对严肃文学的复仇？ In this episode, Matthew and Yiwen finally got the chance to exchange their stories of webnovel obsession. We gave Anrui, a fan of serious literature, a crash course on the past and future of webnovels—genres, top authors, online platforms—only for Anrui to realize that she has, indeed, read webnovels too. The development trajectory of webnovels has exceeded our wildest imagination. It grew from a guilty pleasure exclusive to young people to a cultural industry worth billions of dollars. What was once .txt files and the characters within them have now transformed into globally popular TV shows and A-list celebrities. Our consumption habits have also evolved from reading for free to paying, from single-chapter purchases to subscription models; now, big techs have brought us back to the era of free reading. Today, few can escape the cultural influence of webnovels. It’s no longer just a niche hobby—so has it, in a sense, taken its revenge on serious literature? 【时间轴 The When】 01:45 聊聊当年在被窝里看小说的日子 07:20 网文入门指南，男频、女频、耽美、凡人流这些都是什么 17:12 爽感与羞耻感：为什么我们觉得网文上不了台面？ 21:54 网文率先开发出健康的内容付费生态 36:06 万物皆可网文：Lofter、最小说、甚至知乎？！ 48:35 男读者和女读者眼里不同的耽美文 01:01:55 火遍全球的《陈情令》 1:13:24 灵魂之问：网文登上大雅之堂了吗？ 01:45 Who hasn’t read webnovels past bedtime as a teenager 07:20 Webnovel 101: WTH are “nanpin,” “nüpin,” “danmei,” and “fanreliu”? 17:12 The pleasure and shame of a webnovel reader 21:54 How webnovel built a sustainable monetization business model 36:06 Reading webnovels on the most unlikely platforms: Lofter, Top Novel, and Zhihu?! 48:35 Danmei literature in the eyes of men and women 01:01:55 The unstoppable success of The Untamed 01:13:24 The million-dollar question: Are webnovels considered highbrow now? 【拓展链接 The Links】 品玩：喊了几年免费的网文，现在又开始要收你钱了 Vox记者Aja Romano对《陈情令》的英文报道 嘻嘻里买家俱乐部：网文世界源远流长，最后依旧起点飞升与晋江水长 【我们是谁 Who We Are】 新新人类是一档由几个与互联网一起长大的新生代科技记者主持的播客，致力于站在中美交汇点上，解读全球科技潮流与人文的交织。 马修：一个网瘾晚期的全职养猫人 杜安蕤：一个想当裁缝的科技/文化撰稿人 一闻：一个对地铁比手机更上瘾的记者 【支持我们 Please Support Us】 如果喜欢这期节目并愿意支持我们： 海外用户：patreon.com/c/pixelperfect_xxrl 海内用户：afdian.com/a/pixelperfectpod 商务合作邮箱：baihua.pod@gmail.com If you like our show and want to support us, please consider the following: Those Abroad: patreon.com/c/pixelperfect_xxrl Those in China: afdian.com/a/pixelperfectpod Business Inquiries Email: baihua.pod@gmail.com

【聊了什么The What】 新新人类的三位主播都是小红书重度用户。在这期播客中，安蕤，一闻和马修坐下聊了聊这个不知不觉中已经与我们的生活不可分割的软件。从2013年成立至今，小红书已经不仅仅是一个社交媒体应用，更是一个具有搜索引擎性质的，庞大且多元的内容宇宙。我们几个从最初的怀疑到最终的沉迷，在到现在的“万事可问小红书”，小红书到底是怎么养我们的？ 从产品角度来说，小红书是中国的 Instagram 吗？为什么双列信息流这么有效？这些功能如何促成社区感和信任感？为什么海外复刻小红书的尝试屡败屡战？从文化影响来说，小红书如何塑造了中国年轻人消费和分享信息的方式? 在小红书上，我们见证了娱乐圈“真人”的兴起、算法语言的流行和对于审美文化的过度追求——这究竟是好是坏？小红书让我们都完犊子了吗？ In this episode, we're diving into Xiaohongshu (RED), the app that has become deeply intertwined with our daily lives. It's more than just a social media app; it's a massive universe where people can find information, share experiences, and seek inspiration for all aspects of life—from discovering the best restaurants in Beijing to seeking advice dealing with DMV in LA. Is Xiaohongshu China's Instagram? Why is the parallel feed layout so effective? How do these features foster a sense of community and trust? We also discussed its cultural impact: how has Xiaohongshu shaped the way urban Chinese youth share and consume information? 【时间轴 The When】 05:15 从海淘攻略到搜索引擎——小红书的演变 11:31 在小红书上发帖的心理和对算法的信任 22:34 为什么海外还没出现类似小红书的产品? 30:50 小红书上的"算法语言AlgoSpeak"和美貌焦虑文化 49:52 种草文化导致的同质化和软文泛滥：搜索引擎的信任危机？ 42:10 分享最近在小红书上看到的有趣内容 05:15 - Xiaohongshu's evolution: From overseas shopping guide to search engine 11:31 - The psychology behind posting on Xiaohongshu and trust in its algorithm 22:34 - Why hasn't a similar product to Xiaohongshu emerged overseas? 30:50 - "AlgoSpeak" on Xiaohongshu and the culture of beauty anxiety 49:52 - Homogenization and sponsored content overload: A crisis of trust in search engines? 42:10 - Sharing recent interesting content found on Xiaohongshu 【拓展链接 The Links】 小红书十年：从小众需求到大众生活 小红书曲折的商业化之路 【我们是谁 Who We Are】 新新人类是一档由几个与互联网一起长大的新生代科技记者主持的播客，致力于站在中美交汇点上，解读全球科技潮流与人文的交织。 马修：一个网瘾晚期的全职养猫人 杜安蕤：一个想当裁缝的科技/文化撰稿人 一闻：一个对地铁比手机更上瘾的记者 【支持我们 Please Support Us】 如果喜欢这期节目并愿意支持我们： 海外用户：patreon.com/c/pixelperfect_xxrl 海内用户：afdian.com/a/pixelperfectpod 商务合作邮箱：baihua.pod@gmail.com If you like our show and want to support us, please consider the following: Those Abroad: patreon.com/c/pixelperfect_xxrl Those in China: afdian.com/a/pixelperfectpod Business Inquiries Email: baihua.pod@gmail.com

【聊了什么The What】 与网络一起长大的我们，终于忍不住要对播客下手了。我们（安蕤、马修和一闻）是三个生活在美国的新生代科技记者。毫不夸张地说，我们的成长经历是和互联网、科技以及社交媒体密不可分的。那么，从古早Windows游戏到人工智能应用，我们与技术的关系经历了什么样的变化？我们又是怎么成为科技记者的？当科技从边缘走向中心，谁能定义科技新闻的边界？在平台重塑媒体格局的今天，如何讲述一个更立体的科技故事？这期节目是我们的自我介绍，也是我们对这档播客的未来的畅想。如果这是你第一次发现我们：欢迎来到新新人类播客，我们是你的网上邻居。 We have a podcast! We—Anrui, Matthew, and Yiwen—are three Gen-Zish tech reporters who grew up in China and now live in the U.S. It’s no exaggeration to say that our formative years were deeply intertwined with the internet, technology, and social media. So, how has our relationship with technology evolved, from early Windows games to AI applications? How did we become tech reporters? As technology shifts from the fringes to the mainstream, who gets to define the boundaries of tech journalism? And in an era where platforms are reshaping the media landscape, how can we tell more multidimensional stories about technology? This episode is our self-introduction and a glimpse into our vision for this podcast. If this is your first time discovering us: welcome to Pixel Perfect. We’re your neighbors on the internet. 【时间轴 The When】 00:03:02 老年Gen Z的互联网记忆：从QQ空间到电脑机房 00:14:51 长大以后成为科技记者的偶然与必然 00:23:31 媒体，社交媒体和新时代信息获取方式的革命性转变 00:31:03 硅谷与科技媒体关系的演变 00:49:30 对中文科技媒体的观察 00:56:37 科技报道的本质：不止于技术本身的思考 01:14:32 播客的愿景：提供不爹的科技观察视角 00:03:02 Memories of the internet as an older Gen Z: From QQ Space to computer labs 00:14:51 The coincidences and inevitabilities of becoming a tech journalist 00:23:31 Media, social media, and the revolutionary changes in how we access information 00:31:03 The evolution of the relationship between Silicon Valley and tech media 00:49:30 Observations on Chinese tech media 00:56:37 The essence of tech reporting: Thoughts beyond the technology itself 01:14:32 The vision for the podcast: Offering a non-condescending perspective on tech observations 【拓展链接 The Links】 Taylor Lorenz – User Mag Interneting with Amanda Hess 人物 - 外卖骑手，困在系统里 【我们是谁 Who We Are】 新新人类是一档由几个与互联网一起长大的新生代科技记者主持的播客，致力于站在中美交汇点上，解读全球科技潮流与人文的交织。 马修：一个网瘾晚期的全职养猫人 杜安蕤：一个想当裁缝的科技/文化撰稿人 一闻：一个对地铁比手机更上瘾的记者 【支持我们 Please Support Us】 如果喜欢这期节目并愿意支持我们： 海外用户：patreon.com/c/pixelperfect_xxrl 海内用户：afdian.com/a/pixelperfectpod 商务合作邮箱：baihua.pod@gmail.com If you like our show and want to support us, please consider the following: Those Abroad: patreon.com/c/pixelperfect_xxrl Those in China: afdian.com/a/pixelperfectpod Business Inquiries Email: baihua.pod@gmail.com

【聊了什么The What】 如果要在2024年这个节点提名硅谷现在最有影响力也最具争议性的人物，应该很少有人能和伊隆·马斯克竞争。无论是他创立的特斯拉、spacex等公司，还是他在收购社交媒体推特以后所做的一系列出格动作，和最近的保守转向，都让他稳稳坐在硅谷话题榜的首位。 这个毁誉参半的超级科技领袖是一个充满矛盾的人。爱他的人认为他是硅谷的救世主，一位真正不受当今世界思想定式和传统规训的天才。但恨他的人觉得他是一个冲动，自私，厌女和狂妄的小丑。但不管他到底是哪一个，不可否认的是马斯克已经超越了普通的商业人物和科技领袖，成为了一个职业公众人物，也是我们这个时代被大众津津乐道的神话和隐喻。 马斯克到底是一个什么样的人？我们应该怎样评价他？从他的传记，新闻作品和对掌控自己叙事的迷恋中，我们能看到今天硅谷的哪些不满？在本期节目中。新新人类的三位主播安蕤，马修和一闻与嘉宾Afra一起，试图在这些扑朔迷离的叙事中看到这位超级科技偶像的底色。 If we had to name the most influential and controversial figure in Silicon Valley in 2024, few would come close to Elon Musk. Whether it's through companies he founded, like Tesla and SpaceX, or the series of bold moves he made after acquiring the social media platform Twitter, followed by his recent conservative shift, Musk firmly holds the top spot on Silicon Valley’s list of talking points. This larger-than-life tech leader is a bundle of contradictions. Supporters see him as the savior of Silicon Valley, a true genius who’s unafraid to break free from conventional thinking. But critics argue that he’s impulsive, selfish, misogynistic; an arrogant clown. Whichever side you’re on, there’s no denying Musk has gone beyond being just another business mogul — he’s become a public figure, a myth, and a kind of cultural metaphor for our times. What kind of person is Musk, really? How should we assess him? What can we learn about Silicon Valley’s current discontents from his biographies, the media coverage, and his obsession with controlling his own narrative? In this episode, Anrui, Matthew, and Yiwen — along with guest Afra, attempt to peel back the layers of mystique around Musk, to uncover the essence of his character. 【时间轴 The When】 04:20 天才还是疯子：马斯克形象的两面性 20:04 从PayPal到SpaceX：马斯克的商业帝国如何建立 36:28 推特收购案：神话开始破碎的转折点 54:28 硅谷的政治转向与马斯克的右倾 01:18:31 反思"马斯克主义"：技术精通但心智未成熟的时代 04:20 The controversial perception of Musk 20:04 From PayPal to SpaceX 36:28 Twitter acquisition: when the myth began to crumble 54:28 Is Elon leading a right shift of silicon valley’s political ideology 01:18:31 Reflecting on “Muskism” 【我们是谁 Who We Are】 新新人类是一档由几个与互联网一起长大的新生代科技记者主持的播客，致力于站在中美交汇点上，解读全球科技潮流与人文的交织。 马修：一个网瘾晚期的全职养猫人 杜安蕤：一个想当裁缝的科技/文化撰稿人 一闻：一个对地铁比手机更上瘾的记者 Afra：一个科技行业从业者 【拓展链接 The Links】 Elon Musk by Walter Issacson 中文版：《埃隆·马斯克传》沃尔特·艾萨克森著 ，刘佳琦译，中信出版社 The Surreal Case of a CIA Hacker’s Revenge - Patrick Radden Keefe Character Limit by Kate Conger & Ryan Mac The X-Man – Jill Lepore 【支持我们 Please Support Us】 如果喜欢这期节目并愿意支持我们： 海外用户：patreon.com/c/pixelperfect_xxrl 海内用户：afdian.com/a/pixelperfectpod 商务合作邮箱：baihua.pod@gmail.com If you like our show and want to support us, please consider the following: Those Abroad: patreon.com/c/pixelperfect_xxrl Those in China: afdian.com/a/pixelperfectpod Business Inquiries Email: baihua.pod@gmail.com

【聊了什么 The What】 新新人类紧急召集！🎶各种颜色的皮肤，各种颜色的头发，嘴里念的说的开始流行中国话🎵 谁能料到，由于TikTok可能会被美国封禁，上百万的“洋抖难民”突然涌入小红书，一周之内完全改变了小红书的内容和用户生态。有的中国用户积极帮忙翻译，有的中国创作者利用这个机会吸了一波粉，但也有不少人在吐槽外国人的受欢迎程度或者小红书一夜变味的观感。 不少听众朋友们都希望我们来聊聊这个现象，因此我们紧急录制了第六期播客，想探讨为什么是小红书在这一刻承接住了泼天的流量，为什么这种突发的、充满了不确定性的中美交流让我们更加怀念互联网1.0时代，以及小红书这样的好日子还能过多久。我们请到了隔壁《大波福娃》播客的主播小苕串台，作为一个在小红书兼职营业的创作者，聊聊她亲身经历的这个“亿洋迁徙”时刻。 Who could have guessed? With the looming possibility of TikTok getting banned in the U.S., millions of “TikTok refugees” have suddenly flooded Xiaohongshu, completely transforming its content ecosystem in just a week. Some Chinese users are helping with translations, while local creators are seizing the opportunity to rake in new followers. Yet, plenty of others are grumbling about how popular the newcomers are—or lamenting how Xiaohongshu feels so “off” overnight. Many of our listeners have asked us to unpack this phenomenon, so we rushed to record episode 06. We’re diving into why Xiaohongshu became the go-to platform for TikTok refugees, how such unpredictable events make us nostalgic for the Internet 1.0 era, and just how long Xiaohongshu can sustain its virality. We’ve invited Shao, host of the Dat Beauvoir podcast and a part-time creator on Xiaohongshu herself, to join us and share her firsthand experience of this epic TikTok exile to Xiaohongshu. 【时间轴 The When】 15:18 小红书官方对这个意外事件的反应 20:02 TT难民为什么选择来到小红书而不是Instagram、Lemon8、抖音 37:08 如何理解小红书原生用户对外国人的不满情绪 44:46 外国“老嫂子”在小红书迅速找准定位 50:20 难得的互联网“真人味儿” wholesome 时刻 54:13 接下来故事怎么收尾？难民会留在小红书吗？ 15:18 Xiaohongshu’s official reaction to the unexpected development 20:02 Why did these “TikTok refugees” choose Xiaohongshu instead of Instagram, Lemon8, or Douyin? 37:08 Unpacking the grievances from Chinese users of Xiaohongshu 44:46 How a foreigner immediately found his niche on the platform 50:20 The rare, wholesome, genuine internet moment that is now 54:13 How will the story end? Will the refugees stay? 【我们是谁 Who We Are】 新新人类是一档由几个与互联网一起长大的新生代科技记者主持的播客，致力于站在中美交汇点上，解读全球科技潮流与人文的交织。 马修：一个网瘾晚期的全职养猫人 杜安蕤：一个想当裁缝的科技/文化撰稿人 一闻：一个对地铁比手机更上瘾的记者 小苕：一颗泛薯类，最近的自我认同是夜市上的旋风大土豆，《大波福娃》主播 【拓展链接 The Links】 小红书用户：大牙 中国红脖(BigTooth)，@Daya_Redneck 小红书用户：Joey，@Joeynoble 美国记者Ryan Broderick对TT难民为什么选中小红书的考证：https://www.garbageday.email/p/america-s-youth-longs-for-chinese-e-commerce 《今生缘》在TT是怎么火起来的：https://www.whatsonweibo.com/the-chinese-viral-tiktok-song-explained-no-its-not-about-samsung/ 《大波福娃》播客 【支持我们 Please Support Us】 如果喜欢这期节目并愿意支持我们： 海外用户：patreon.com/c/pixelperfect_xxrl 海内用户：afdian.com/a/pixelperfectpod 商务合作邮箱：baihua.pod@gmail.com If you like our show and want to support us, please consider the following: Those Abroad: patreon.com/c/pixelperfect_xxrl Those in China: afdian.com/a/pixelperfectpod Business Inquiries Email: baihua.pod@gmail.com

【聊了什么The What】 2024年底的美国大选之后，社交媒体平台迎来了一次“大迁徙”：数以百万计的用户离开了X（推特），寻找可能的替代产品。在这个过程中，一个叫做Bluesky（蓝天）的平台脱颖而出，一时间吸引了大量新用户和外界的关注。 Bluesky到底是一个什么样的平台，和推特有什么相似和不同之处？去中心化是否真能解决平台治理的困境？在社交媒体日益碎片化的今天，一个统一的公共对话空间还有可能存在吗？在本期节目中，我们深入分析了以Bluesky和Threads为首的新兴文字社交平台，讨论了各自的使用体验，以及那个所有人最关注的问题：推特能够被取代吗？ After the 2024 U.S. elections, social media witnessed a "mass migration" as millions of users left X (formerly Twitter) in search of alternative platforms. Amid this shift, a platform called Bluesky emerged, quickly drawing a surge of new users and external attention. What exactly is Bluesky, and how does it compare to Twitter in terms of similarities and differences? Can decentralization genuinely solve the governance challenges of these platforms? In an era of increasingly fragmented social media, is a unified public discourse space still possible? In this episode, we delve into emerging text-based social platforms like Bluesky and Threads, discussing their user experiences and addressing the most pressing question on everyone's mind: Can Twitter be replaced? 【时间轴 The When】 00:01:51 大选后的社交媒体大迁徙 00:07:11 2023年社交媒体的百花齐放与洗牌 00:14:10 Bluesky的用户增长奇迹 00:49:42 Threads的数据与实际使用感受的差距 01:09:01 谁能真正取代推特？核心用户的重要性 00:01:51 The Post-Election Social Media Migration 00:07:11 The Proliferation and Shake-Up of Social Media in 2023 00:14:10 Bluesky’s Remarkable User Growth 00:49:42 The Gap Between Threads’ Data and Actual User Experience 01:09:01 Who Can Truly Replace Twitter? The Importance of Core Users 【我们是谁 Who We Are】 新新人类是一档由几个与互联网一起长大的新生代科技记者主持的播客，致力于站在中美交汇点上，解读全球科技潮流与人文的交织。 马修：一个网瘾晚期的全职养猫人 杜安蕤：一个想当裁缝的科技/文化撰稿人 一闻：一个对地铁比手机更上瘾的记者 【拓展链接 The Links】 The Vergecast: Bluesky’s quest to be the next Twitter On with Kara Swisher: Leaving X? Where Next? On Bluesky, Threads and the “Fediverse” The Verge: Federation is the future of social media, says Bluesky CEO Jay Graber MIT Technology Review: Why Threads is Suddenly Popular in Taiwan 【支持我们 Please Support Us】 如果喜欢这期节目并愿意支持我们： 海外用户：patreon.com/c/pixelperfect_xxrl 海内用户：afdian.com/a/pixelperfectpod 商务合作邮箱：baihua.pod@gmail.com If you like our show and want to support us, please consider the following: Those Abroad: patreon.com/c/pixelperfect_xxrl Those in China: afdian.com/a/pixelperfectpod Business Inquiries Email: baihua.pod@gmail.com

【购票链接 The Link】 Mayday 五月天 回到那一天 25週年巡迴演唱會 【聊了什么 The What】 老司机有多喜欢开车，新手司机就有多头疼，然而在人工智能时代，这些考量好像都要翻篇了。这一期新新人类播客，我们聊了聊自动驾驶，从Waymo在旧金山停车场半夜鸣笛开会，到Cruise的高楼起了又塌，自动驾驶从科幻照进现实的路比过山车还要此起彼伏。 这一期主播安蕤请假，代班的嘉宾是曾在某自动驾驶企业工作过的托尼。托尼给我们分享了他的行业内部视角和丰富的无人驾驶出租车乘坐经验，最关键的是，他提出来一个至关重要的问题： 为什么人类司机可以毫无心理负担地别车“苕萝卜”，是人性的扭曲还是道德的沦丧？ Some people love driving; others find it a nightmare. But in the age of AI, that whole debate might soon be irrelevant. In this episode of Pixel Perfect, we dive into the world of autonomous driving. From Waymo’s cars honking at each other in a San Francisco parking lot at midnight to Cruise’s meteoric rise and equally dramatic crash, the journey of autonomous driving tech has been nothing short of a rollercoaster. Our usual host, Anrui, is on leave this episode, so stepping in is guest host Tony, who has firsthand experience working at a self-driving company. Not only does he bring an insider’s perspective and a wealth of robotaxi ride stories, but he also asks the million-dollar question: Why do human drivers feel zero guilt when aggressively cutting off robotaxis on the road? 【时间轴 The When】 06:38 在美国坐无人车是为了体验新奇感而付费 20:15 自动驾驶开车太有素质了，人类司机比不了 30:03 硅谷明星 Cruise: 飞得有多高摔得就有多惨 43:54 无人车应该配备远程操控安全员吗？中美两国有不同的态度 49:02 特斯拉FSD体验越来越顺滑了，但司机还是不能分心 59:36 人工智能技术的标志性应用是无人驾驶还是 ChatGPT 06:38 Paying a premium for experiencing the future 20:15 Robotaxies are too polite—human drivers are mean 30:03 The rise and fall of Silicon Valley darling Cruise 43:54 Should self-driving cars have remote safety operators? The US and China disagree. 49:02 Tesla’s FSD is getting smoother; That’s no excuse for drivers to get distracted. 59:36 Self-driving cars vs. ChatGPT, who’s the real future of AI? 【我们是谁 Who We Are】 新新人类是一档由几个与互联网一起长大的新生代科技记者主持的播客，致力于站在中美交汇点上，解读全球科技潮流与人文的交织。 马修：一个网瘾晚期的全职养猫人 一闻：一个对地铁比手机更上瘾的记者 托尼：一个管着8个AI牛马的赛博包工头 【拓展链接 The Links】 嗯，这不是无人驾驶出租车应该被使用的方式…… 《彭博周刊》2022年报道：烧了一千亿美金，自动驾驶还是开进了死胡同 《NYT》2023年报道: Cruise 扩张激进、结果难看 《福布斯》2024年报道：以自动驾驶的里程碑来衡量哪家公司是行业领导者 【支持我们 Please Support Us】 如果喜欢这期节目并愿意支持我们： 海外用户：patreon.com/c/pixelperfect_xxrl 海内用户：afdian.com/a/pixelperfectpod 商务合作邮箱：baihua.pod@gmail.com If you like our show and want to support us, please consider the following: Those Abroad: patreon.com/c/pixelperfect_xxrl Those in China: afdian.com/a/pixelperfectpod Business Inquiries Email: baihua.pod@gmail.com

【聊了什么 The What】 本期节目迎来了特邀嘉宾——在第一线深入报道多家中资工厂出海故事的记者 Viola Zhou。这次，她刚刚从密歇根小镇Big Rapids回来，探访争议漩涡中的国轩高科（Gotion）电池厂。这个偏僻保守的小镇如何被一座中国电池厂搅动？为什么反对声浪不绝于耳，厂长却受到州政府热情接待？工厂管理者、工人、政客和普通居民，又在这场全球制造的再分配中扮演着什么角色？除了Gotion之外，Viola还分享了她去采访台积电亚利桑那工厂，以及富士康印度工厂的所见所闻。 我们从特朗普最新的关税政策谈起，一路聊到中美制造业从双向奔赴走向理想幻灭的故事。美国的“再工业化”离不开中国制造业的反向输出，更是一场效率与价值观的拔河。我们也聊到了这背后美国对“中国效率”的矛盾心理：一边想要复制，一边又排斥它背后的代价。在“Made in America”与“Built by China”的夹缝之间，工厂成了一种文化意象——它既承载希望，也埋藏幻觉。 This episode features special guest Viola Zhou, a journalist who’s spent years reporting from the frontlines of Chinese factories going global. Fresh off a trip to Big Rapids, Michigan, she shares what she saw at the center of the Gotion battery plant controversy. How did a small conservative town become a geopolitical flashpoint? Why is factory exec Chuck Thelen eating a battery on camera? Who are the “No Gos” protesting the plant—and why are state officials embracing it? From managers to residents, we unpack the roles each plays in this global industrial drama. Viola also reflects on her visits to TSMC’s Arizona plants and Foxconn’s factories in India. Our conversation begins with Trump’s latest tariffs and traces the fading myth of a U.S.–China manufacturing renaissance. America’s “reindustrialization” increasingly relies on Chinese factories setting up shop on U.S. soil—caught in a deeper tug-of-war between efficiency and values. Somewhere between “Made in America” and “Built by China,” the factory has become a cultural battleground, loaded with both promise and illusion. 【时间轴 The When】 00:02:16 – 吐槽特朗普的关税政策 00:08:44 – 美国制造业怎么了？ 00:13:04 – 初识国轩高科 00:19:11 – 美国高管Chuck Thelen“吃电池”名场面背后的故事 00:26:32 – Big Rapids的人文和自然环境 00:32:08 – 国轩高科在伊利诺伊的另外一个工厂 00:32:51 – 文化交融的趣事：《美国工厂》纪录片，年会和厕所风水 00:39:36 – 台积电亚利桑那工厂中的工作风格冲突 00:46:51 – 印度富士康工厂中的磨合，与20年前深圳的遥相呼应 00:51:35 – 综合这些见闻，美国制造到底靠谱吗？ 00:57:51 – 工厂作为一种文化想象：卓别林，精神小伙，到东华金龙 01:03:06 – 美国科技界对中国的嫉妒和效率迷恋 01:04:37 – 全球化幻梦的破灭和对制造业的其他展望 00:02:16 – Ranting About Trump’s Tariff Policies 00:08:44 – What Happened to American Manufacturing? 00:13:04 – First Encounter with Gotion 00:19:11 – The Story Behind Chuck Thelen’s “Battery-Eating” Moment 00:26:32 – Life and Landscape in Big Rapids 00:32:08 – Gotion’s Other Factory in Illinois 00:32:51 – Cultural Clashes and Funny Moments: American Factory, Annual Parties, and Bathrooms Feng Shui 00:39:36 – Work Culture Clashes at TSMC’s Arizona Plant 00:46:51 – Foxconn in India: Culture Shock Echoing Shenzhen Two Decades Ago 00:51:35 – After All This, Is “Made in America” Still a Real Thing? 00:57:51 – The Factory as Cultural Metaphor: From Chaplin to TikTok 01:03:06 – China Envy in Silicon Valley: The Myth of Efficiency 01:04:37 – The Collapse of the Globalization Dream and Rethinking Manufacturing Futures 【我们是谁 Who We Are】 新新人类是一档由几个与互联网一起长大的新生代科技记者主持的播客，致力于站在中美交汇点上，解读全球科技潮流与人文的交织。 马修：一个网瘾晚期的全职养猫人 杜安蕤：一个想当裁缝的科技/文化撰稿人 一闻：一个对地铁比手机更上瘾的记者 Viola: 一个徘徊在工厂门口的工厂记者 【拓展链接 The Links】 一家中国电池厂如何引发密歇根州小镇的政治崩溃 – Viola Zhou 富士康在印度生产 iPhone 的艰难历程 – Viola Zhou and Nilesh Christopher 台积电在美国沙漠的惨败 – Viola Zhou 【支持我们 Please Support Us】 如果喜欢这期节目并愿意支持我们： 海外用户：patreon.com/c/pixelperfect_xxrl 海内用户：afdian.com/a/pixelperfectpod 商务合作邮箱：baihua.pod@gmail.com If you like our show and want to support us, please consider the following: Those Abroad: patreon.com/c/pixelperfect_xxrl Those in China: afdian.com/a/pixelperfectpod Business Inquiries Email: baihua.pod@gmail.com

【聊了什么 The What】 谁不想有七个男朋友呢？ 虽然现实里我们不会也不太想有七个真人伴侣（毕竟同时和七个人聊天，不翻车也会审美疲劳吧），但今天的人工智能已经催生了一系列应用，让我们能在赛博世界里不同性格的AI聊天甚至互动。从大语言模型的语音聊天功能到层出不穷的AI陪伴应用，我们都在深夜点开了哪个聊天机器人的对话框？AI究竟满足了哪些真人咨询师不能满足的需求？从小红书GPT越狱教程到拥有3D身体的「虚拟恋人」、到底是谁在和AI谈甜甜的恋爱啊？ 在讨论AI如何提供情绪价值的同时，我们也探讨了AI陪伴产品存在的道德风险。明星初创公司character.ai在2024年就面临了多次诉讼，律师指控其聊天机器人在与未成年人的对话中的产生涉及自杀的内容。AI陪伴的边界究竟在哪里？我们在赛博空间中产生的真情实感，应该何去何从？ 在节目的结尾，我们也邀请神秘嘉宾和大家打了招呼。也和我们一起分享你的AI陪伴故事吧！ Who wouldn’t want seven boyfriends? (Just kidding.) While most of us probably wouldn’t—and shouldn’t—have seven real-life partners (I mean, chatting with seven people at once sounds exhausting and like a recipe for disaster), today’s AI tools have given us a way to interact with multiple personalities in the digital world. From voice-enabled large language models to a growing number of AI companionship apps, many of us have found ourselves opening up a chatbot window late at night. What needs are these AI companions fulfilling that real-life therapists or partners might not? From jailbreak tutorials on Xiaohongshu to 3D-bodied “virtual lovers,” who exactly is falling head over heels for AI? While exploring how AI provides emotional value, we also dive into the ethical risks of these companionship products. In 2024, buzzy startup Character.ai faced multiple lawsuits, with lawyers accusing its chatbots of generating suicidal content in conversations with minors. So, where do we draw the line for AI companionship? And what should we make of the genuine feelings we develop in these digital relationships? At the end of the episode, we’re joined by a mystery guest who drops in to say hello. Come share your own AI companionship stories with us, too! 【时间轴 The When】 00:00:28 – 我们开始和 AI 聊天，是出于情绪还是习惯？ 00:02:20 – ChatGPT 变成数字日记本 00:06:11 – ChatGPT 的记忆功能：惊喜、理解，还是侵犯隐私？ 00:07:15 – AI 和人类咨询师的本质差别在哪？ 00:10:48 – ChatGPT为什么让人上瘾？知识、语言、共鸣感 00:12:14 – DeepSeek vs. ChatGPT：AI 也有性格和“毒舌”？ 00:16:17 – “午夜狂暴哈士奇狗”：DIY AI男友背后的训练学 00:19:41 – AI陪伴产品谱系：情感疏导 vs 娱乐互动 00:23:52 – Character AI 是“互动小说”还是“情感寄托”？ 00:28:36 – 虚拟恋人产品：Replica、EVE 与“说话的猫”想象 00:31:41 – 流行文化中的AI亲密关系：从《Her》到《魔幻手机》 00:40:02 – “AI变成人”这个叙事，还能打动我们吗？ 00:47:01 – 女性向 vs 男性向 AI：是陪伴差异，还是性别误解？ 00:55:05 – 为什么用户反而喜欢“不完美”的AI？ 01:00:24 – AI角色的法律风险、版权挑战与伦理灰区 00:00:28 – Why do we start chatting with AI – emotional need or habit? 00:02:20 – ChatGPT as a digital diary and emotional outlet 00:06:11 – ChatGPT’s memory: helpful insights or privacy red flags? 00:07:15 – What human therapists offer that AI can’t 00:10:48 – Why ChatGPT feels so real: fluency, feedback, and breadth 00:12:14 – Comparing AI personalities: DeepSeek vs. ChatGPT 00:16:17 – The “Midnight Berserk Husky” and her AI boyfriend 00:19:41 – Two types of AI companions: therapeutic vs. entertaining 00:23:52 – Character AI: roleplay, fan fiction, and voice calls 00:28:36 – Virtual lovers: Replica, EVE, and the “talking dog” fantasy 00:31:41 – From Her to Blade Runner: AI intimacy in pop culture 00:40:02 – The fall of the “AI wants to be human” narrative 00:47:01 – Gendered AI design: misunderstood desires, different aesthetics 00:55:05 – Why some users prefer AI glitches and imperfections 01:00:24 – Legal & ethical grey zones: fan-made bots, IP, and real people 【我们是谁 Who We Are】 新新人类是一档由几个与互联网一起长大的新生代科技记者主持的播客，致力于站在中美交汇点上，解读全球科技潮流与人文的交织。 马修：一个网瘾晚期的全职养猫人 杜安蕤：一个想当裁缝的科技/文化撰稿人 一闻：一个对地铁比手机更上瘾的记者 【拓展链接 The Links】 MIT科技评论：DeepSeek如何成为中国年轻人的算命先生 On with Kara Swisher: 聊天机器人是否导致了她儿子的死亡？Megan Garcia v. Character.AI & Google 【支持我们 Please Support Us】 如果喜欢这期节目并愿意支持我们： 海外用户：patreon.com/c/pixelperfect_xxrl 海内用户：afdian.com/a/pixelperfectpod 商务合作邮箱：baihua.pod@gmail.com If you like our show and want to support us, please consider the following: Those Abroad: patreon.com/c/pixelperfect_xxrl Those in China: afdian.com/a/pixelperfectpod Business Inquiries Email: baihua.pod@gmail.com

【聊了什么 The What】 上一期聊中国工厂背后的全球化逆流打开了几位主播的话匣子，身处在动荡、多变的当下，我们越来越多看到同龄的新新人类开始陷入怀旧的情绪：从小时候观看奥运会和世博会的懵懂的激动，到互联网如何打开我们探索世界的大门，那个时代好像有一种开放、灿烂、向全世界问好的基调。朴树在千禧年写下“穿新衣吧，剪新发型呀。轻松一下，Windows 98”，却在2017年把这首歌改写成“时光不再，已不是我们的世界。它早已物是人非，让人崩溃意冷心灰”，去看看这两首歌的评论区，你就会看到大家都能感受到同样的集体情绪。 所以这期播客里，主播们一起检视了这种情绪转变，当我们在怀念古早互联网和全球化潮流的时候怀念的到底是什么？我们发现，作为和互联网共同长大的第一代人，科技带领我们见了世面、走到海外，我们却越来越想要回归 low-tech 的设备和不智能的软件。安蕤给我们科普了什么是“中式梦核”，这些蓝玻璃旧商场的意象，带着一层阴暗诡异的滤镜，代表着我们对过去又怀念又遗憾的情绪。不过即使在陷入算法网络的今天，互联网还是给我们了一些希望：全球化的未来，可能就藏在东华金龙的 TikTok 视频评论区里。 In the last episode, the discussion about the backlash against globalization around Chinese factories really kept us thinking. Living in a time of turbulence and change, we increasingly see our peers evoking a sense of nostalga: from the excitement of watching the Olympics and World Expo as kids, to the way the internet opened the door for us to explore the world, there seemed to be a tone of openness and optimism in that era. Back in the millennium, Pu Shu wrote, “Put on new clothes, get a new haircut. Let’s have some fun, Windows 98,” but by 2017, he rewrote the song as “Time is gone, this is no longer our world. Everything has changed, leaving us devastated and disheartened.” Take a look at the comment sections of both songs, and you’ll see that everyone feels this collective emotion. So in this episode, the hosts examined this emotional shift. When we look back fondly on the early internet and the wave of globalization, what exactly are we nostalgic for? We found that, as the first generation to grow up alongside the internet, technology showed us the world and took us overseas—yet we’re increasingly turning to low-tech devices and non-AI software. Anrui explained to us what “Chinese Dreamcore” is: these images of blue buildings and deserted malls through an eerie filter reflect a sense of yearning and regret for the past. But even in today’s algorithm-driven internet, there’s still some hope: the future of globalization might just be hiding in the comment sections of Donghua Jinlong’s TikTok videos. 【时间轴 The When】 00:03:00 – 哈佛女孩刘亦婷那个时代对成功的想象 00:10:26 – 08年奥运会与10年世博会的大时代感 00:23:28 – 互联网和娱乐工业让我了解千里之外的世界 00:30:32 – 智能手机如此发达，我们却开始怀念一次性相机 00:32:50 – 什么是中式梦核，为什么它让我们隐隐不安？ 00:44:56 – 我们是第一代怀旧记忆与互联网无法分割的人 01:00:15 – 人工智能算法主导的互联网让人群之间越来越分裂和封闭 01:06:58 – TikTok上的工厂视频却能引起跨文化的共鸣 00:03:00 – Perceiving the success of Liu Yiting, the “Harvard girl” 00:10:26 – Optimism in the 2000s: the 08 Olympics and 10 World Expo 00:23:28 – Meeting the world through Western songs and iTunes 00:30:32 – Smartphones are out; disposable cameras are in 00:32:50 – What is “Chinese Dreamcore” and why does it make us uncomfortable? 00:44:56 – The first generation that can’t be nostalgic without bringing up the internet 01:00:15 – An algorithm-driven internet is isolating people 01:06:58 – Yet TikTok factory videos can still bridge cultures 【我们是谁 Who We Are】 新新人类是一档由几个与互联网一起长大的新生代科技记者主持的播客，致力于站在中美交汇点上，解读全球科技潮流与人文的交织。 马修：一个网瘾晚期的全职养猫人 杜安蕤：一个想当裁缝的科技/文化撰稿人 一闻：一个对地铁比手机更上瘾的记者 【拓展链接 The Links】 黄河山，“中式梦核”艺术家，小红书账号@黄河山hhs “Why Chinese manufacturers are going viral on TikTok,” MIT Technology Review 【支持我们 Please Support Us】 如果喜欢这期节目并愿意支持我们： 海外用户：patreon.com/c/pixelperfect_xxrl 海内用户：afdian.com/a/pixelperfectpod 商务合作邮箱：baihua.pod@gmail.com If you like our show and want to support us, please consider the following: Those Abroad: patreon.com/c/pixelperfect_xxrl Those in China: afdian.com/a/pixelperfectpod Business Inquiries Email: baihua.pod@gmail.com