Welcome to another episode of Pearls On, Gloves Off with your host, Mary O'Carroll, Chief Operating Officer at Goodwin. Today, Mary sits down with Goodwin's leaders—Anthony McCusker, Chair, and Mark Bettencourt, Managing Partner—for an insightful conversation about the firm's unique culture, its client-centric approach, and the future of the legal industry.

Anthony McCusker is widely recognized as a preeminent adviser in corporate securities and partnership laws, with a primary focus on advising technology companies and their investors. He chairs the firm's Executive Committee and is a member of its Management Committee and Allocations Committee.

Mark Bettencourt has extensive experience in mergers and acquisitions, public offerings, private placements of debt and equity securities, securities law compliance, and technology transfer and licensing. He chairs the firm's Management and Allocations Committees and serves on the Executive Committee.

In this episode:

• Embracing a Unique Culture: Mary's early observations about Goodwin's collaborative, team-first attitude and what sets the firm apart.
• Forward Thinking Innovation: How Goodwin is driving change in the industry through novel solutions, technology, and AI that enhance client service.
• Client-Centric Approach: The importance of being deeply immersed in clients' industries and providing holistic business advice beyond traditional legal services.
• The Changing Role of Legal Professionals: How the role of general counsel is evolving and what that means for law firms and lawyers.
• Building for the Future Generation: The significance of mentorship, apprenticeship, and providing lawyers with the tools and opportunities to thrive.
• The Power of Collaboration: The results of working together across all levels of the firm to achieve common goals and drive success.

We hope you enjoy this engaging conversation that offers a glimpse into the future of law firms and how Goodwin is embracing change to better serve clients and support its people.

Follow Mary on LinkedIn

Rate and review on Apple Podcasts

Welcome to another episode of Pearls On, Gloves Off with your host, Mary O'Carroll, Chief Operating Officer at Goodwin. After a brief hiatus, we're back, and this episode features a fascinating conversation with Alyssa Harvey Dawson, Chief Legal Officer at HubSpot.

With over 20 years of experience leading legal teams at major companies like Gusto, Sidewalk Labs, Netflix, and Autodesk, Alyssa shares her insights on navigating AI challenges, the evolving role of legal leadership, and what it takes to build strong legal operations in today's complex, tech-driven landscape.

In this episode:

·         The evolving role of general counsel as a strategic partner in business growth.

·         The importance of trust and data governance in legal teams' approach to AI.

·         The challenges of balancing global regulations, customer expectations, and innovation.

·         Building a legal team that fosters business alignment and addresses customer needs.

·         Insights into HubSpot's legal operations and their approach to managing AI, compliance, and data security.

·         Alyssa's thoughts on the skills needed to succeed in today's legal operations roles, including business judgment and adaptability.

·         The unexpected benefits of improv in developing leadership skills in a corporate setting.

Enjoyed this conversation? Don't forget to subscribe to Pearls On, Gloves Off for more insightful discussions with leading figures in the legal and corporate sectors. Share your thoughts and join the conversation on our social media channels.

Follow Mary on LinkedIn

Rate and review on Apple Podcasts

• Transitioning to John Deere: Anna details her onboarding journey, where Deere laid the groundwork by first understanding the role of legal operations and investing in its success.
• Unique Challenges: As one of the few remote employees, Anna shares the importance of relationship-building and progress-making despite her unique work arrangement.
• Diverse Roles: Anna reflects on her legal ops journey across different companies, sharing how no two roles are the same and how each experience is valuable.
• Technology in Legal Ops: They discuss how John Deere aims to become a tech-forward company, targeting 10% recurring revenue by 2030. This requires significant investments in tech tools and IT partnerships.
• Setting Up Success: Mary highlights the necessity of strategic hiring and the importance of investment in support, vendors, tech, and tools.
• Creating Buy-In: Anna talks about Deere's strategic approach to building the legal ops function, conducting surveys to identify opportunities and building a business case for stakeholder buy-in.
• Current Projects: From implementing an enterprise-wide CLM system to aiming for 50,000 hours saved by 2026, Anna shares her ambitious goals and hiring plans.

• Follow Mary on LinkedIn: Mary's LinkedIn
• Follow Ironclad on LinkedIn: Ironclad LinkedIn
• Watch Ironclad on YouTube: Ironclad YouTube
• Check out Ironclad on TikTok: Ironclad TikTok
• Rate and review on Apple Podcasts: Pearls On, Gloves Off - Apple Podcasts

• Exploring Strategy and Improvement: Dawn's role at Avery Dennison: strategy development, process enhancement, and resource optimization. She shares her methodologies in change management and the hurdles faced during large-scale tech implementations.
• Cultivating Success: The critical elements that foster a successful legal operations function—supportive culture, robust leadership, and the essential skills needed. Dawn discusses her approach to team building and the traits she values in potential hires.
• Overcoming Resistance: The common challenges of introducing new systems within firms and how to effectively manage resistance to change. The significance of being a proactive change agent equipped with strategic and program management prowess.
• Lessons from Dell: Dawn reflects on her tenure at Dell, discussing the evolution of legal operations and the importance of a comprehensive understanding of business processes. They discuss striking the right balance between mitigating risks and maintaining operational efficiency.
• Demonstrating Value: They emphasize the ongoing need to support legal operations and ways to showcase its impact. Dawn offers her personal advice for aspiring legal ops professionals, urging them to embrace leadership roles, seize learning opportunities, and initiate change.

• Follow Mary on LinkedIn: Mary O'Carroll
• Follow Ironclad on LinkedIn, YouTube, and TikTok

• Love the show? Rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. Your feedback helps us grow and reach new listeners!

• A Tale of Two Worlds: Mary and Charlene explore the contrasts and challenges f@aced in the legal departments of Orange Theory and the New York Times, highlighting the critical role of general counsel in championing innovation.
• Strategic Moves: Charlene opens up about the strategic initiatives that have marked her career, offering golden nuggets of advice for those aspiring to climb the legal ops ladder.
• The Brave Leap: From Contracts Manager to Legal Ops Director, Charlene's journey is a masterclass in risk-taking and the indispensable support of a general counsel.
• Foundation in Contract Management: Charlene credits her rigorous experience in contract management as the bedrock of her success, encouraging newcomers to start their legal ops journey there.
• Initiative and Innovation at Orange Theory: Charlene reflects on her tenure at Orange Theory, emphasizing the impact of supportive general counsel on her ability to implement transformative projects, like a Contract Lifecycle Management system.
• Strategy at The New York Times: With a larger team and more resources, Charlene shares her strategic priorities and the open, supportive environment that fosters innovation at the New York Times.
• The GC Partnership: The significance of a solid relationship with general counsel, the courage to take risks, and the importance of communication are underscored.
• Continuous Improvement: Charlene motivates legal ops professionals to seize opportunities for enhancement, advocating for small starts leading to major leaps.

• Follow Mary on LinkedIn
• Follow Ironclad on LinkedIn, YouTube, and TikTok
• Don't forget to rate and review Pearls On, Gloves Off on Apple Podcasts

• Change Leadership, Not Management: Mary and Chris dig into why "change management" just doesn't cut it. Chris suggests we need to shift our focus to "change leadership" - guiding people through the unknown, tackling fear head-on, building trust, and creating a space where ideas can flow freely.
• The Legal Industry's Slow Dance with Change: The conversation takes a turn towards the legal sector's sluggish pace when it comes to adapting to change. Mary sheds light on the crucial role of legal operations and why professionals need to step up and become strategic leaders.
• Beyond the Business Case: Chris challenges the conventional wisdom of relying solely on data to drive change. He emphasizes the importance of empathy, listening, and really engaging with people to understand their concerns and aspirations.
• A Blueprint for Change: The duo dives into Chris's model for leading change, from recognizing the challenge to achieving and moving beyond the desired outcomes. They discuss how resistance is inevitable and why it's smart to focus on those who are on the fence about change rather than the die-hard resistors.
• Cultivating Willingness: Mary and Chris explore the power of starting small, with willing groups, to spark change across an organization. They share inspiring stories of how small beginnings can lead to big transformations, creating a ripple effect of engagement and acceptance.

• Follow Mary on LinkedIn
• Follow Ironclad on LinkedIn
• Subscribe to our YouTube Channel
• Catch us on TikTok

• The Challenges of Contracts: Overview of common issues in contract processes and the potential for improvement.
• Ownership of CLM: Advocates for General Counsel to lead CLM processes, highlighting the strategic value of contracts data.
• Evolution of CLM Technology: From basic database systems to modern, comprehensive CLM solutions that facilitate collaboration and integration.
• Selecting a CLM Vendor: Tips on navigating the CLM market, the role of AI in CLM, and strategies for adoption.
• Implementation Strategies: Advice on aligning stakeholders, scoping requirements, and launching a successful CLM project.
• The Future of Contract Management: The impact of AI on CLM, improving processes, and unlocking business insights.

• Follow Mary on LinkedIn: Mary O'Carroll

• Stay Updated with Ironclad:LinkedIn
• YouTube
• TikTok

• Rate and Review on Apple Podcasts: Pearls On, Gloves Off

In this compelling episode of "Pearls On, Gloves Off," Mary hosts Mike Russell, a seasoned expert in legal operations and legal technology with a career spanning over three decades. From the dawn of internet technology in law firms to the current emphasis on efficiency and innovation, Mike shares invaluable insights into the evolution of legal ops and tech.

• The Journey Through Legal Tech Evolution: Discover Mike's early experiences in the 90s with the advent of internet technology in law firms, shaping his profound understanding of legal operations, time billing, and the billable hour concept.

• Legal Ops and Legal Tech Synergy: Mike discusses the parallel growth of legal operations and technology over the past decade, highlighting the shift from a focus on profitability to efficiency and the reduction of waste within legal processes.

• A Guide to Metrics and KPIs: Co-authoring a book on metrics and KPIs, Mike offers practical advice on capturing data, presenting it effectively to General Counsels, and making data actionable through visual presentation.

• Performance Indicators and Efficiency: Emphasizing the importance of spend metrics, performance tracking, and the analysis of work origin and complexity, Mike shares how these indicators can offer deep insights into legal operations efficiency.

• Simplifying Technology in Data Analysis: Advocating for simplicity in technological systems, Mike discusses the significance of tailoring data presentation to the audience's needs and the potential of natural language query tools to revolutionize data accessibility.

• Starting Your Metrics Journey: For those embarking on their journey with KPIs and metrics, Mike recommends leveraging community resources, understanding organizational needs, and fostering cross-departmental relationships to highlight the value of legal operations.

Follow Mary on LinkedIn: Mary O'Carroll

Stay Updated with Ironclad:

• • LinkedIn
  • YouTube

Rate and Review: Love the show? Drop us a line on Apple Podcasts: Pearls On, Gloves Off

In this episode of Pearls On, Gloves Off

Episode: Leadership and Learning with Darek Kochman

Mary O'Carroll talks with Darek Kochman, Director of Global Legal Operations at Kimberly-Clark Corp, about his journey from the military to leading global operations. Here's what they cover:

• Diverse Background: Darek's path through the military, KPMG, and into legal operations showcases a non-traditional approach to leadership.

• Key Leadership Imperatives: Darek outlines his leadership principles:

  • Culture: The importance of understanding organizational culture.
  • Learning Velocity: The ability to quickly learn and adapt.
  • Selfless Service: Leadership focused on collective success.

• Leading without Authority: They discuss the challenges of influencing without formal authority, especially relevant in legal operations.

• Community Openness: Darek highlights the legal operations community's willingness to share insights and support peers.

• Personal Growth: Darek shares insights on learning to be a better family member, emphasizing leadership lessons in personal life.

Connect with Us:

• Follow Mary on LinkedIn: Mary O'Carroll
• Stay Updated with Ironclad:
  • LinkedIn
  • YouTube
  • TikTok
• Rate and Review on Apple Podcasts: Pearls On, Gloves Off

• AI's Legal Landscape: Perlman takes us through the evolution of AI in law, forecasting its transformative impact while addressing confidentiality concerns.
• Realistic Expectations for AI Tools: Dive into the practicality of AI – efficient, effective, but not flawless. A tool for better legal practices.
• Generative AI's Potential: Explore the untapped possibilities of AI in law, from drafting documents to streamlining legal services.
• Redefining Legal Issue Spotting: Lawyers of tomorrow need to be tech-savvy, quick to adapt, and ready to deliver services faster and more affordably.
• Changing Law Firm Training Models: New lawyers are no longer just learners; they're innovators contributing to a firm's evolution.
• Suffolk's Legal Tech Frontier: Get an inside look at Suffolk's Legal Innovation and Technology Institute and legal tech lab, where students get hands-on with the future.
• Skills for the Future Lawyer: Perlman emphasizes a blend of timeless skills like communication and problem-solving, with an essential dash of tech-comfort.
• The No-Code Lawyer of Tomorrow: Perlman envisions a future where lawyers instruct computers through language, not code, democratizing tech access in the legal field.

• Follow Mary on LinkedIn: Mary O'Carroll
• Ironclad Socials: LinkedIn: Ironclad, Inc., YouTube: Ironclad Channel, TikTok: @ironclad.clm
• Rate and Review: Love the show? Drop us a line on Apple Podcasts: Pearls On, Gloves Off

In this episode of Pearls On, Gloves Off

Mary sits down with her own own executive coach, Kim Kokoska, for a deep dive into the psychology of self-perception and empowerment. Listen in as they unpack some transformative ideas:

• Victim vs. Observer Mindsets: dissecting the 'victim triangle', featuring the roles of victim, persecutor, and rescuer. They explore how we often oscillate between these roles in interactions.

• Embracing the Empowerment Triangle: Transitioning from victimhood, they introduce the 'empowerment triangle', a framework comprising the observer or creator, the asserter or challenger, and the nurturer or coach. This model encourages proactive, empowering approaches to life's challenges.

• Subconscious Beliefs: Delving into psychology, they discuss how our early experiences shape subconscious beliefs, impacting our responses and behaviors in adulthood.

• The Role of Personal Responsibility: The duo highlights the significance of accepting our current reality, identifying change opportunities, and making conscious choices to shift from victim to observer mindset.

• Managing Stress Responses: They touch upon the 'fight or flight' reaction in stressful scenarios, emphasizing mindfulness and relaxation techniques for better regulation.

• Confronting Imposter Syndrome: Kim offers insights into imposter syndrome, linking it to deep-rooted beliefs and suggesting strategies to separate these from our performance.

• The 'Minimum Effective Dose' Strategy: They discuss how minor, well-targeted changes can lead to significant life improvements, advocating for a minimalistic approach to personal development.

• Awareness and Adjustment: The conversation wraps up with a focus on recognizing when we slip into a victim mindset and the importance of readjusting to an observer perspective.

Connect with Us:

• Follow Mary on LinkedIn: Mary Shen O'Carroll
• Stay Updated with Ironclad:
  • LinkedIn
  • YouTube
  • TikTok
• Love the Show? Rate and Review Us on Apple Podcasts: Pearls On, Gloves Off

Mary O'Carroll welcomes the dynamic duo of Trista Engel and Jessica Markowitz, leaders at Paragon Legal and co-founders of Calyx Capital Partners. Both seasoned MBAs from the University of Chicago Booth Business School, they share insights on reinventing legal talent in today's fast-paced world.

• Flex Talent Revolution: Mary and her guests unpack the concept of flex talent. They argue it's not just an option but a necessity for modern legal departments. Key focus areas? Legal ops, tech tools, and yes, flexible talent!

• Right Sourcing 101: It's all about matching the task with the perfect resource. Mary delves into this game-changing strategy, where everything from junior attorneys to automation tools plays a role.

• Real-world Flex Talent Stories: Trista and Jessica bring their experiences to the table, highlighting the versatility and adaptability of flex talent. From managing workload peaks to fitting specialized roles, they've seen it all.

• Cost-Effective Legal Work: Dive into how flex talent can slash legal costs while maintaining top-tier expertise. The takeaway? Quality work doesn't always mean hefty law firm bills.

• The Paragon Edge: Get an inside look at how Paragon Legal isn't just employing flex talent but empowering them with a full suite of benefits and a strong sense of team belonging.

• Culture Fit in Flex Talent Hiring: It's not just about skills. Mary, Trista, and Jessica emphasize the importance of aligning culture, speed, and risk tolerance for successful talent placement.

Stay Connected with Us:

• Follow Mary on LinkedIn: Mary O'Carroll
• Ironclad Socials: LinkedIn: Ironclad, Inc., YouTube: Ironclad Channel, TikTok: @ironclad.clm
• Rate and Review: Love the show? Let us know on Apple Podcasts: Pearls On, Gloves Off

Welcome to another episode of "Pearls On, Gloves Off," where we dive deep into the challenges and innovative strategies within the legal and corporate world. In this episode, we flip the tables. Mary O'Carroll, the powerhouse host you've come to know, becomes the guest as Ironclad's Chief Marketing Officer, Leslie Henthorne, steps in to host. This episode is filled with heartfelt reflections, career insights, and a look at what's on the horizon for Mary.

Mary and Leslie dig into:

• Mary's Career Journey: From her start in finance, navigating the world of legal operations, and her pivotal role at Google, to betting her career on Ironclad.

• The Ironclad Experience: Why Mary chose to join a fast-paced legal tech startup, what it was like to build something transformative, and the bittersweet feelings of moving on.

• Community and Connection: The importance of building a strong, authentic community in the legal space, and why it's more than just a buzzword.

• Personal Reflections: The challenges and rewards of being a working mom, the quest for balance, and the mentors who shaped her journey.

• What's Next: Hints at Mary's next big move and the future of the podcast.

Enjoyed this conversation? Don't forget to subscribe to "Pearls On, Gloves Off" for more insightful discussions with leading figures in the legal and corporate sectors. Share your thoughts and join the conversation on our social media channels.

• Follow Mary on LinkedIn: Mary's LinkedIn

• Follow Ironclad on LinkedIn: Ironclad LinkedIn

• Watch Ironclad on YouTube: Ironclad YouTube

• Check out Ironclad on TikTok: Ironclad TikTok

• Rate and review on Apple Podcasts: Pearls On, Gloves Off - Apple Podcasts

In this episode of "Pearls On, Gloves Off," host Mary O'Carroll sits down with Sheila Dusseau, whose transition from finance to legal operations has been nothing short of a masterclass in adaptability and strategic thinking.

1. Busting Myths: Shiela and Mary debunk common misconceptions about legal ops. Sheila advocates for a shift in perspective, from seeing legal ops as mere 'support' to recognizing it as a crucial 'partnership' or 'collaboration' within the organization.

2. The Transparency Imperative: A candid moment unfolds when Sheila recounts a conflict arising from a misinterpretation of her role, underscoring the necessity for clear communication and a deep understanding of legal ops across the company.

3. Evolving with AI: Sheila and Mary explore how AI is revolutionizing the legal ops landscape, enhancing the value and intelligence of professionals in the field.

4. GCs as Catalysts for Change: The dialogue shifts to the role of general counsels (GCs) in framing legal ops within leadership teams. Sheila underscores the need for GCs to engage more proactively and transparently with legal ops as equal partners.

5. Prioritizing Impact: A pragmatic discussion ensues on managing 'support' type requests. Sheila shares her strategy of prioritizing impactful projects aligned with organizational goals over indiscriminate task acceptance.

6. Strategic Value and Continuous Learning: The episode wraps up with Sheila's powerful insights on delivering tangible results, embracing continuous learning, and the importance of innovative thinking in propelling the organization forward.

Join us for this enlightening conversation where pearls of wisdom meet the unvarnished truth about the evolving world of legal operations. Don't miss Sheila Dusseau's invaluable insights on "Pearls On, Gloves Off with Mary O'Carroll."

In this episode, I'm thrilled to sit down for an in depth conversation with the amazing Jason Boehmig, CEO of Ironclad. Here's what we cover:

• Jason's Unique Path: Discover how Jason transitioned from investment banking to law, setting the stage for his future endeavors.
• The Birth of Ironclad: Jason delves into the origins of Ironclad, highlighting the pivotal moments and decisions.
• Community at the Core: The rise of the CLOC community and its significant impact on the legal tech world.
• Entrepreneurial Ups and Downs: Insights into the challenges and triumphs of starting and growing a company in the legal tech space.
• Legal Ops and the Future: Jason discusses the evolving role of legal operations and the broader implications for the legal profession.
• AI: The Game Changer: A look into how AI is revolutionizing legal departments and what that means for the industry.
• Solving Real Problems: Tackling customer issues in the crowded CLM  field.
• The GC and CLO Perspective: The crucial role of GCs and CLOs in adopting and implementing CLM solutions.
• Ironclad's Road Ahead: Jason shares his vision for the future of Ironclad and the exciting developments in the legal tech sector.

• Mary's LinkedIn
• Ironclad's Socials
  • LinkedIn
  • YouTube
  • TikTok
• If you're enjoying the show, we'd really appreciate your review on Apple Podcasts ❤️

• From Ghana to London: Abigail recounts her remarkable journey, detailing her transition from Ghana to the heart of London's banking scene, and the inception of her exhilarating career at Standard Chartered.

• Building from Scratch: Discover how Abigail pioneered the bank's legal ops function, tackling challenges head-on and expanding her role's scope through strategic innovation and leadership.

• A Diverse Role: As Head of Legal Operations, Abigail navigates various domains, including financial management, risk operations, and analytics, underpinning the entire legal framework of the bank.

• Team Growth Insights: Learn how Abigail strategically expanded her team from a solo venture to a 30-member powerhouse, emphasizing low-cost location benefits and establishing a Center of Excellence in India.

• Managed Services vs. Outsourcing: Dive into a compelling discussion about the pros and cons of in-house managed services versus outsourcing, exploring flexibility and infrastructure necessities.

• AI: The Future Frontier: Abigail shares exciting insights into the bank's focus for the next 12 months, centering on AI to enhance operational efficiency, highlighting the importance of experimentation and identifying potential applications.

• Mary's LinkedIn: Follow Here
• Ironclad's Socials:
  • LinkedIn
  • YouTube
  • TikTok
• Rate & Review on Apple

• From IT mergers to legal ops, Léo discusses the transition
• Unveiling the pillars of legal ops support and strategy
• AI's revolutionary role at Salesforce and the legal realm
• Legal ops duties—what they entail, their significance
• Léo's personal anecdotes on shaping legal ops strategy
• The synergy of different teams working together
• Salesforce's journey through digital transformation
• The strategic evolution of legal ops
• How Léo's team at Salesforce navigates new technology integration
• Crafting a vision for the future in legal ops
• Emphasizing change management in legal ops teams

• 🌟 Mary on LinkedIn
• 🌟 Ironclad on LinkedIn, YouTube, TikTok
• 🌟 Rate and Review on Apple Podcasts

• Mary's LinkedIn: Follow Here
• Ironclad's Socials:
• • LinkedIn
  • YouTube
  • TikTok
• Show Some Love: Rate & Review on Apple

• From Vet Dreams to Legal Themes: A quirky leap from aspiring veterinarian to the legal counsel realm.
• Obstacles in the Legal Lane: The hurdles and exhilarating transition to legal operations.
• GW Pharmaceuticals and Self-Funding: Tales of contract administration and a self-funded legal practice course.
• Legal Ops - The Magic Wand: The transformative power of legal operations: think efficiency and standardization.
• TravelPerk - More than Just Travel: A deep dive into TravelPerk's tech-driven, efficient ethos where the legal team enables.
• AI in Legal? Heck Yes!: Generative AI's revolutionary impact on law and TravelPerk's tech-forward strategies.
• Education 2.0: A call for tech-savvy, entrepreneurial legal education.
• Stepping into Legal Ops: Golden advice: tribe-finding, mentor-seeking, and wide networking.
• Beyond Law: The potency of connections outside the legal bubble.
• The Future of Law: Reflecting on the profession's trajectory and the indispensability of business acumen.

• Mary's LinkedIn: Follow Here
• Ironclad's Socials:
• • LinkedIn
  • YouTube
  • TikTok
• Show Some Love: Rate & Review on Apple

• Community at its Finest. Dive into the Irish Tech General Council, chaired and founded by Sarah.
• The LinkedIn Guru. Sarah's insightful pieces on legal operations and tech are a must-read.
• A Seat at the Table. Why GCs need to report directly to the CEO in a rapidly expanding company.
• Choosing a CLM Provider. Sarah's playbook for picking a contract lifecycle management provider. Plus, a golden scorecard and RFP template!
• Burnout and AI. Sarah's perspective on lawyer burnout and the revolutionary role of AI in the legal space.
• The Power of Unity. The sheer force of community building among legal professionals. They share, they care!
• Dublin's Tech Pulse. How the Dublin tech community is marking its space on the global map.
• GC Reporting - A Deeper Dive. Understanding the undeniable connection between GCs and the CEO.
• AI and the Legal Landscape. AI's potential, the upcoming AI act in the EU, and its ripples in the legal arena.
• Starting From Zero. Hear Sarah's journey of constructing a legal function from the ground up. Spoiler: Contractors and outside providers play a big part.
• Running Legal Smartly. Legal isn't just about laws. It's about efficiency, technology, and smart operations.

• Mary's LinkedIn: Follow here
• Ironclad's LinkedIn: Follow here
• Ironclad's YouTube: Subscribe here
• Ironclad's TikTok: Check us out here
• Rate and Review: Show us some love on Apple Podcasts!

In this special episode of Pearls On, Gloves off:

This isn't your regular episode. It's a mashup of three scintillating conversations from the one and only contracts talk show, Ironclad Live, which Mary hosted in Dallas on September 7th. Dive in as Mary engages with legal luminaries from St. Jude Hospital, the Houston Texans, and L'Oréal.

Conversation 1: St. Jude Hospital with La'Resa Young

• Mary and La'Resa highlight the heart and soul of St. Jude: its mission and the importance of fostering a spirited, fun culture.
• The duo dive into the digital renaissance at St. Jude. Fresh systems, new-age policies, and the tech transformation underpinning it all.
• Ironclad's role? Massive. La'Resa underscores its stellar efficiency in contract and data management, and how it's been a time-saver.

Conversation 2: Houston Texans with Sunil Jamal

• Gridiron chat! Sunil spills the beans on potential rebranding and new uniforms for the Houston Texans. It's more than a style update—it's a lot of contracts.
• How does Ironclad fit in? Sunil's praise says it all: streamlined contracts, quick access to data, and the AI edge that's redefining the game.
• A poker background? Sunil shares how his poker prowess translates into his legal and negotiation strategies.

Conversation 3: L'Oréal with Charles Hurr

• Charles introduces Mary to L'Oréal's sunny star: La Roche-Posay sunscreen, the official sunscreen of the U.S. Open and the contracts that enable the partnership.
• AI and Ironclad: Charles discusses how AI is revolutionizing contract management, but not without its challenges. Napster-era copyright issues ring a bell?
• On a lighter note: Mary and Charles share their newfound love for pickleball, an unexpected gift from the pandemic times.

Stay Connected!

• 📲 Follow Mary on LinkedIn
• 📲 Follow Ironclad on LinkedIn
• 🎥 Catch us on YouTube
• 💃🎵 Tune into our TikTok
• 🍏 Rate and review on Apple Podcasts

On this episode, Alex Kelly, Co-Founder and COO at Brightflag, joins Mary in the world of podcasting, legal operations and the evolving landscape of legal technology. Alex shares his experience running a podcast called "In-House Outliers," featuring conversations with legal leaders, including general counsels and legal operations professionals.

The guests on his podcast mainly come from Brightflag's customer base and community, with a focus on trailblazers and thought leaders in the legal ops industry. Alex talks about how the podcast serves as an educational platform, providing insights and lessons learned from experienced professionals to benefit the emerging generation within the legal ops field.

The conversation shifts to Brightflag's role in the legal tech industry. Alex describes Brightflag as a modern e-billing and matter management platform for corporate legal teams. Their commitment is to help legal teams and their finance partners operate more efficiently, aided by AI-powered technology and exceptional customer support.

Mary and Alex agree that while matter management entails capturing essential data and acting as a system of record for legal matters, the specific tools and software best suited for different legal functions may vary.

The conversation turns to the changing ecosystem of legal tech. With an increasing variety of companies offering flexible talent, managed services and other specialized roles, it's important to select the right tech tool for each task. This includes contract workflows, IP management systems for intellectual property matters, and other specialized tools.

Resources mentioned:

Alex Kelly -
https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexkellybrightflag/

Brightflag -
https://www.linkedin.com/company/brightflag/

If you enjoyed today's show, please leave a 5-star review. You can find more information, as well as the resources mentioned in this episode, at ironcladapp.com.




#LegalOps #LegalCareer

On this episode, Aine Lyons, Senior Vice President and Deputy General Counsel at VMware, joins Mary to talk about legal ops, her time at VMware and new technologies.

More than a decade ago, Aine was approached by a former GC at VMware about taking on legal ops. She declined because she didn't know anyone in legal ops and didn't know anything about it. Times have certainly changed.

Aine now sees a lot of movement in the industry surrounding digital transformation, with more companies adding chief transformation officers and legal transformation leads to their lineup. There is also a rise in the number of consultants, both independent and with the Big Four.

Aine believes in using creative storytelling to communicate to the entire company the mission and successes that the legal department is a part of. She likens it to Formula 1 racing, using terms like fast-track sales ordering and smooth-track transitions.

Aine is a believer in communication across departments, and she says the easiest way to learn about what others in the company are doing, is simply to ask. Most people naturally want to learn from or mentor others.

Aine sees a transformation coming in the next 24 months surrounding generative AI tools, and she believes that legal professionals should embrace the changes and educate themselves to be prepared for the inevitable.


Resources:

Aine Lyons -
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ainelyons/

VMware -
https://www.linkedin.com/company/vmware/



If you enjoyed today's show, please leave a 5-star review. You can find more information, as well as the resources mentioned in this episode, at ironcladapp.com.




#LegalOps #LegalCareer

Welcome to another episode of "Pearls On, Gloves Off," where we dive deep into the challenges and innovative strategies within the legal and corporate world. Today, Mary is joined by Mick Cox, the VP of Legal Operations at Procore Technologies. They dive deep into the evolution of legal operations and the dynamic journey of growing a legal team from scratch. They explore the challenges and triumphs faced while going through career transitions and the strategies for thriving in high-growth environments.

In this Episode:

• Career Transitions: Mick shares their journey from Salesforce to UC and then Procore, highlighting the unique experiences and lessons learned in each role.

• Procore's Evolution: Discover how Procore, a cloud solution for the construction industry, has scaled and how its legal team has evolved in tandem.

• Legal Ops Insights: The crucial role of legal operations in fast-growing companies, including strategies for effective team growth and process improvement.

• Team Building: Tips on building and managing a top-tier legal team, including the importance of adaptability, empathy, and a disdain for the status quo.

• Cultural Impact: How company culture and leadership influence the effectiveness of legal operations and team morale.

• Tech and Process: The intersection of legal technology and process improvement, and how to prioritize both for optimal efficiency.

Enjoyed this conversation? Don't forget to subscribe to "Pearls On, Gloves Off" for more insightful discussions with leading figures in the legal and corporate sectors. Share your thoughts and join the conversation on our social media channels.

• Follow Mary on LinkedIn: Mary's LinkedIn

• Follow Ironclad on LinkedIn: Ironclad LinkedIn

• Watch Ironclad on YouTube: Ironclad YouTube

• Check out Ironclad on TikTok: Ironclad TikTok

• Rate and review on Apple Podcasts: Pearls On, Gloves Off - Apple Podcasts

On this episode, Lisa Gilley, Chief Legal Officer at Higher Logic, joins Mary to talk about, among other things, community and engagement and how the Higher Logic platform allows organizations to give their community a home where they can interact, share ideas, answer questions and stay connected.

Engagement with customers is critical for customer retention in any community, and the legal community is no exception. True engagement ignites a community through the sharing of ideas and lighting a fire of excitement about an organization.

Lisa works on a small, supportive and collaborative legal team, and that builds trust among team members and leadership. That trust empowers her and her team to build their department the way that they want it and to acquire the tools they need to do their jobs better.

Many GCs ask how they can show their value to earn that kind of trust, and Lisa's answer is to treat everyone in the organization like a customer and do your job in a way that creates customer satisfaction.

Lisa's advice for other solo GCs is to get in early with technology and scale your technology as your department grows. You'll never regret having the tool in place.


Resources:

Lisa Gilley -
https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisagilley2021/

Higher Logic -
https://www.linkedin.com/company/higher-logic/



If you enjoyed today's show, please leave a 5-star review. You can find more information, as well as the resources mentioned in this episode, at ironcladapp.com.




#LegalOps #LegalCareer

On this episode, Katherine Roseveare, General Counsel - Global Functions, Global Operations and Legal Solutions, and Alex Herrity, Director - Global Legal Solutions at Adidas, join Mary to talk about managing technology in a global setting, the creative mindset of their legal team and building out a legal tech department and team from scratch.

They talk through their creation of new legal technology for the company, which is based on three pillars: technology, efficiency and engagement. The technology is for maintaining a large portfolio, efficiency is about making legal as efficient as possible and engagement is making the legal team feel like one community.

As they were building out a legal tech function, they had to learn a new way to work. They've gone from having outside tech business partners to having a tech product-led business, which created quite a change in their day-to-day lives.

AI is a hot topic these days, and it's high on the list for implementation into the legal tech they're developing. They are being thoughtful and moving with the intention to make sure they use it for the right reasons.  

Resources:

Katherine Roseveare - https://www.linkedin.com/in/katherine-roseveare-33b5a314

Alex Herrity - https://www.linkedin.com/in/legalopshezzle/

Adidas - https://www.adidas.com

If you enjoyed today's show, please leave a 5-star review. You can find more information, as well as the resources mentioned in this episode, at ironcladapp.com.

#LegalOps #LegalCareer

On this episode, Liam Brown, Founder, Chairman and CEO at Elevate, joins Mary to talk about the evolving legal ecosystem, the importance of mentoring, the ways technology continues to help legal department professionals and much more.

Liam talks about how his way of thinking about the legal ecosystem has changed over the years. He says the days are gone when business and law were completely separate, and they now work together in many different ways.

He makes the argument that having a working understanding of legal issues is enough to solve many business problems and to make decisions without needing the advice of a lawyer. He likens it to having a working knowledge of data issues or technology functions.

They talk about the next generation coming up in the legal system. Liam points out that everyone stands on the shoulders of the ones who come before them, and they should do everything they can to help the new generation thrive.

They take a deep dive into technology and how it can help professionals in the legal department with their day-to-day operations. They also talk about the importance of collaboration and working together through good and bad times.

Liam Brown - https://www.linkedin.com/in/liamjmbrown/

Elevate - https://www.linkedin.com/company/elevate-services/

If you enjoyed today's show, please leave a 5-star review. You can find more information, as well as the resources mentioned in this episode, at ironcladapp.com.

#LegalOps #LegalCareer

On this episode, Cai GoGwilt, Co-Founder and Chief Architect at Ironclad, and Alex Su, Head of Community Development at Ironclad, join Mary to talk about generative AI and its effect on the legal industry.

ChatGPT can change how people work in many different industries, and legal is no exception. Cai sees this as a valuable tool for legal professionals, but he says there are a lot of shortcomings with the platform as it is today. One problem people are finding is that ChatGPT can generate very authoritative but completely wrong answers to questions fed into it.

He explains the difference between that and Ironclad AI, which is mostly context. Ironclad AI has years of real-world business intelligence to draw from to answer questions and perform tasks that are accurate based on that information.

The group sees new AI tools as being a timesaver for legal professionals, especially those who work in corporate law. Cai sees corporate attorneys as having a leg up on using AI, in part because they know how to translate legalese into plain language.

All three participants agree that this technology is here to stay, and it's okay to stay on the sidelines for a while, but it is coming at us faster than we think.


Cal GoGwilt - https://www.linkedin.com/in/cai-gogwilt-77b18a22/
Alex Su - https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexander-su/
Ironclad - https://www.linkedin.com/company/ironclad-inc-/





If you enjoyed today's show, please leave a 5-star review. You can find more information, as well as the resources mentioned in this episode, at ironcladapp.com.



#LegalOps #LegalCareer

On this episode, Terrene Collins, Director of Legal Operations and Chief of Staff to Chief Legal Officer at Panasonic North America,  joins Mary to talk about her career path.

Like many legal ops professionals, Terrene is seeing massive rate increases from law firms, and she is pushing back, as difficult as that might be. She will look at rates from prior years, and if she sees a budget-busting significant rate increase, sometimes as much as 20% or 25%, she will call the firm out.

Terrene has worked in various industries including financial services, pharma and technology. She talks about the differences she has experienced between the industries, which are often based on how long the company has had a legal ops department.

She gives valuable insights on how to work with a GC and a CLO, and how to determine what it is they are looking for in order to move the organization forward. Terrene says the hardest part of the job is figuring out organizational priorities.

Her focus for this year is to understand ways to drive savings in dealing with their outside counsel and to find ways for her team to add value to the organization.

Terrene Collins - https://www.linkedin.com/in/terrene-collins-mba-a6403353/
Panasonic North America - https://www.linkedin.com/company/panasonic-northamerica/



If you enjoyed today's show, please leave a 5-star review. You can find more information, as well as the resources mentioned in this episode, at ironcladapp.com.

#LegalOps #LegalCareer

On this episode, Bob Mignanelli, VP/COO Legal at Haleon, joins Mary to talk about the ever-expanding role of the legal ops team, the ways he and his team contribute to strategic and tactical initiatives, and the importance of asking for an expanded role within the company.

Bob sees the legal ops role as a crucial partner for many departments within a company but admits that sometimes leaders in those departments don't share that vision. Whether it's tech, finance, procurement, finance or HR, he believes he can contribute while looking at initiatives and strategic decisions through a legal lens.

It's important to raise your hand and to let people know that you want to contribute and you want to help. The worst that can happen is they will say no, and you can't take that personally.

The timing for getting involved is critical because sometimes a great idea can come when the timing just isn't right. It's important to not get discouraged and to keep moving forward to expand your horizons within the company.

Bob Mignanelli - https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertmignanelli/

Haleon - https://www.linkedin.com/company/haleon/



If you enjoyed today's show, please leave a 5-star review. You can find more information, as well as the resources mentioned in this episode, at ironcladapp.com.

#LegalOps #LegalCareer

On this episode, Michele Lau, Chief Legal Officer and Corporate Secretary at GoDaddy, joins Mary to talk about her career path, the evolution of the CLO role, and the company's embrace of diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging.

One of the core values at GoDaddy is diversity, something that drew Michele to the company in the first place. The leadership team spends a great deal of time together defining their priorities to make sure they are in alignment with each other on their diversity goals.

The GoDaddy legal team consists of around 90 people globally, and they deal with law, internal audit, sustainability, and government and industry affairs. Having team members around the world brings different perspectives and ways of thinking that make the team stronger.

Michele relies heavily on the legal ops team in terms of financial stewardship, budget, all-hands communications and developing a roadmap and strategy. They meet monthly to get input from everyone and provide dynamic advice for moving forward as a company.

There is a core mission at the company to focus on ESG, environmental, social, and governance, and Michele talks about the depth and breadth of the work they do to support that mission.

Michele Lau - https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelelau/

GoDaddy - https://www.linkedin.com/company/godaddy/


If you enjoyed today's show, please leave a 5-star review. You can find more information, as well as the resources mentioned in this episode, at ironcladapp.com.

#LegalOps #LegalCareer

On this episode, Jason Barnwell, General Manager for Digital Transformation of Corporate, External, and Legal Affairs at Microsoft, joins Mary to talk about his title. He describes it as being a professional cheerleader, meaning he is creating the vision for the future of the company.

The way Jason sees it, law firms are starting to feel pressure to show value. The problem is value is determined by data and resources are needed to generate that data. They can't show value without the resources.

He talks about the difficulty of generating change at a company like Microsoft, and how he has learned to frame the problem from a leadership perspective, not his own perspective.

He has learned, over the years, that lawyers are in the feelings business. Decisions are made as much by feeling as by thinking. To get problems solved, you have to humanize the work.

Jason Barnwell - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jbarnwell/

If you enjoyed today's show, please leave a 5-star review. You can find more information, as well as the resources mentioned in this episode, at ironcladapp.com.



#LegalOps #LegalCareer

On this episode, Mel Scott, Senior Legal Counsel (Global) at Megaport, joins Mary to talk about her career path, which started in private practice and moved quickly to her current in-house role.

Mel starts by talking about her podcast: Counsel - A Podcast for In-House Lawyers. One of the reasons Mel started the podcast is to share information and stories that she wished she had access to when she was first starting out in the industry.

She spent three years in private practice before taking on an in-house role, and she explains the differences between the two. In her case, she went from a buttoned-up aviation role to the rollercoaster of a tech startup.

She discusses the importance of continuously future-proofing your processes in order to increase efficiency and best achieve the vision of the board and executive team. This requires managing what she calls the 'long tail' of legal requests.


Mel Scott - https://www.linkedin.com/in/theinhouselawyer/

Megaport - https://www.linkedin.com/company/megaport/

If you enjoyed today's show, please leave a 5-star review. You can find more information, as well as the resources mentioned in this episode, at ironcladapp.com.



#LegalOps #LegalCareer

On this episode, Scott Westfahl, Professor of Practice and Faculty Director of Executive Education at Harvard Law School, joins Mary to talk about his career journey since graduating from Harvard Law School in 1988, including his time at McKinsey and then at Goodwin Proctor before returning to Harvard where he occupies his current post.

Scott talks about the importance of feedback for growth in the legal world which is something he learned from the consulting world. This can be either in the moment or at the end of a project, but he believes that feedback and extensive coaching are effective ways to create great leaders. 

Scott takes us behind the scenes at the Executive Education program at Harvard Law which was launched in 2007 as a leadership development program for senior law firm executives. 

He talks about his definition of adaptive leadership, a critical skill for legal leadership or legal ops professionals. He also dives into the ways law firms should be embracing experimentation and brainstorming.

Scott Westfahl - https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottwestfahl/

Harvard Law School - https://www.linkedin.com/school/harvard-law-school/

If you enjoyed today's show, please leave a 5-star review. You can find more information, as well as the resources mentioned in this episode, at ironcladapp.com.

#LegalOps #LegalCareer

• Follow Mary on LinkedIn: Mary's LinkedIn
• Follow Ironclad on LinkedIn: Ironclad LinkedIn
• Watch Ironclad on YouTube: Ironclad YouTube
• Check out Ironclad on TikTok: Ironclad TikTok
• Rate and review on Apple Podcasts: Pearls On, Gloves Off - Apple Podcasts

On this episode, Lesley Garafola, Managing Director, Global Head of Procurement and Vendor Management at Barings, joins Mary to talk about her career history and how it led her to fall in love with procurement, much to her surprise.

Lesley began her career at Wells Fargo as a paralegal, with the intention of going to law school. Then she started analyzing data and organically growing the operations side of the legal department and fell into legal ops.

Now she heads up procurement, which she finds both fascinating and exciting. The biggest challenge she faced in her transition to procurement was learning how to handle the stakeholders. It takes strategic thinking — an approach she has now instilled in her team.

Lesley was personally asked to join procurement. Despite her objections, she finally gave in and is thriving in her field. She takes us through the process and the improvements she and her team have made to the company's systems and processes, building from the ground up.

Lesley Garafola - https://www.linkedin.com/in/lesley-e-garafola-22146210/

Barings - https://www.linkedin.com/company/barings/


If you enjoyed today's show, please leave a 5-star review. You can find more information, as well as the resources mentioned in this episode, at ironcladapp.com.

#LegalOps #LegalCareer

On this episode, Jill Kelley, VP of Legal Affairs at the New York Jets, joins Mary to talk about the many twists and turns in her career which eventually led to her position with the New York Jets.

Something that might surprise people is just how small the legal department is at the Jets. It consists of Jill and a paralegal, so it's a department of two. As Jill says, it is a highly visible and famous organization but, behind the scenes, the legal department is very much a mom-and-pop operation.

Jill's day-to-day work focuses on the business aspect of the franchise. This includes revenue-generating activities like sponsorship agreements, suites and season ticket sales. She also works closely with the multimedia team on broadcast agreements and social media content.

Jill talks about being a fan of using technology, usually for contract automation, even though it is a small department.

As for the future, the league is focusing heavily on online sports betting, which means data privacy issues are becoming more important every year.


Jill Kelley - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jill-kelley/

New York Jets - https://www.linkedin.com/company/newyorkjets/



If you enjoyed today's show, please leave a 5-star review. You can find more information, as well as the resources mentioned in this episode, at ironcladapp.com.



#LegalOps #LegalCareer

On this episode, Reese Arrowsmith, VP, Head of Legal Operations at Campbell Soup Company joins Mary to talk about his career in legal ops that started before legal ops existed.

We talk about his time in early legal ops software, long before we called it legal ops. This included selling matter management software in the late 90s and early 2000s and building a system for The Home Depot in 2003 that integrated with the legal department.

We also talk about the importance of collaboration and open communication in a legal ops department. This means everyone, from the top down, not being afraid to ask questions or suggest changes when something isn't working.

We also dove into his background as a consultant and the skills he picked up along the way. He says every experience in his varied background has helped him to get to where he is today.


Reese Arrowsmith - https://www.linkedin.com/company/campbell-soup-company/

Campbell Soup Company - https://www.linkedin.com/company/campbell-soup-company/

If you enjoyed today's show, please leave a 5-star review. You can find more information, as well as the resources mentioned in this episode, at ironcladapp.com.

https://ironcladapp.com/ 

#LegalOps #LegalCareer

On this episode, Lisa Mango, General Counsel at One Medical, joins Mary to talk about her career journey, through her move to the Bay Area for litigation work, which expanded into an in-house position, to her current role at One Medical today.

Now, as a tech-enabled healthcare disruptor, Lisa has to pull on all her experience and knowledge just to deal with the regulations in healthcare that don't apply to many non-regulated industries.

She has done product work, privacy work, transactional law and has spent her whole career expanding her knowledge set as a means of professional development. For example, she did a stint in legal ops, which helped her learn to grow and scale legal departments and has been critical for her career.

As she says, she can't imagine being in her current role as a general counsel without her diverse legal experience.

Lisa Mango - https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisamango/

One Medical - https://www.linkedin.com/company/one-medical-group/

If you enjoyed today's show, please leave a 5-star review. You can find more information, as well as the resources mentioned in this episode, at ironcladapp.com.


#LegalOps #LegalCareer

In this episode, Ryan Marks, Head of Legal at Airtable joins Mary to talk about all ways to create an efficient LegalOps department, the importance of data, and how to avoid the reputation as the "Department of No."

Ryan started his career in litigation, working on a variety of different cases over the course of several years. While doing this, he realized that instead of solving problems by working backward with litigation, he wanted to help clients use legal means to avoid those problems in the first place.

As the first legal hire at Airtable, Ryan set out to use this approach to create a legal identity for the company from the ground up.

He talks about how he and his team are careful to use all available tools to implement processes that will affect both internal and external stakeholders in a way that is comfortable and easy to understand. This approach maximizes growth while minimizing pain.

Laying this foundational groundwork has paid off, as the company has grown from 200 to over 1,000 employees and his department has gone from a one-man show to a team of ten specialists.

Resource:

Ryan Marks: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryan-marks-4100954b/

If you enjoyed today's show, please leave a 5-star review. You can find more information, as well as the resources mentioned in this episode, at ironcladapp.com.

https://ironcladapp.com/ 

#LegalOps #LegalCareer

On this episode, Shana Simmons, General Counsel at Everlaw, joins Mary to talk about Shana's career journey. From how Shana got a job as a law firm associate in London to why she left that job and moved to California to work as a contract manager at Google.


Shana waxes lyrical about her deep love for Google and what it was like to work at a company that was growing so rapidly. She also shares the tools and skills Shana learned at Google and why she didn't learn them as a lawyer, such as building and managing a diverse team. She then goes through how she worked her way up at Google, and why she ultimately left.


Lastly, Shana goes into detail about why it's so important to hire talent that is different from you and how to manage them effectively as well as how to use technology to modernize legal operations.

Resources:

Shana Simmons: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shana-simmons-02295498/

Everlaw: https://www.linkedin.com/company/everlaw/
 

If you enjoyed today's show, please leave a 5-star review. You can find more information, as well as the resources mentioned in this episode, at ironcladapp.com.

• https://ironcladapp.com/ 

#LegalOps #LegalCareer

In this episode, Mary is joined by her friend Niki Armstrong, Chief Legal Officer & Corporate Secretary at Pure Storage, to talk about optimization and innovation in the legal ops space.

Niki has had a long and successful career, first as a lawyer and now as a CLO. She runs through her career and how she got to her current position. Then she and Mary walk down memory lane and talk about how their 20-year friendship started at a poorly put-together event in San Francisco. 

Niki also recounts her time on Richard Branson's short-lived reality show. She talks about the experience and what she learned from it before sinking her teeth into legal ops. 

Niki is passionate about legal operations. She shares her approach to innovating processes, optimizing, and automating everything that can be automated while keeping the team on board and free from burnout. 

If you enjoyed today's show, please leave a 5-star review. You can find more information, as well as the resources mentioned in this episode, at ironcladapp.com.

In this episode, Mary is joined by Fergus Speight, General Counsel at Royal London, and Jenny Hacker, Head Of Operations - Legal & CoSec at Royal London, to talk about how they created and innovated a legal ops department before it was an established industry.

Fergus explains how he started to see problems in the legal processes at Royal London but lacked the creative thinking to come up with innovative solutions. So he looked to his team and saw Jenny, who has a mind for innovation and the ability to bring ideas to life.

Jenny discusses how she came up with ideas for change and how she and Fergus started legal ops in their company long before anyone knew what legal ops was. She explains how they went about making these changes and what they did to make sure that their whole team was on board.

To finish off, the pair compare the legal ops industry and tech in the UK with that of the US.

If you enjoyed today's show, please leave a 5-star review. You can find more information, as well as the resources mentioned in this episode, at www.ironcladapp.com.

In this episode, Mary is joined by Mark Ross, Principal and Co-Leader at Deloitte Legal Business Services, to discuss his impressive career and his best practices in the legal ops space.

Mark began his career in England as a personal injury lawyer before emigrating to the US. Here he started his career in legal ops to avoid taking the California Bar Exam. Since then, he has become a powerhouse in the industry.

Mark discusses his methods for convincing reluctant leadership to invest in the legal ops side of the business. He details the type of research needed, the information you need to gather, and how to present everything to leadership. 

Mark also dives into the world of contracts, CLMs, and what can be done to help the contracting process run smoothly. He talks about why it is essential to get as much of it done in-house as possible since contracts are, in his words, touched by everyone and owned by no one. 

If you enjoyed today's show, please leave a 5-star review. You can find more information, as well as the resources mentioned in this episode, at ironcladapp.com.

In this episode, Mary is joined by her friend Dr. Larry Richard, Founder & Principal Consultant at LawyerBrain LLC, to talk about all things lawyers. 

Many who work in legal operations, or anywhere dealing with contracts, often feel frustrated by their lawyer colleagues, leading to a lot of bad jokes and poor communication. To help, Larry explains the psychology behind a lawyer's brain, and why they are the way they are. He then shares ways to communicate with them in a manner that they will respond to more agreeably. 

Larry breaks down the personality type of a lawyer into qualities both high and low. Where a lawyer is often high in skepticism, autonomy, and problem solving, they are often low in resilience, sociability, and cognitive empathy. Knowing this is key when it comes to understanding what makes a lawyer tick. 

If you enjoyed today's show, please leave a 5-star review. You can find more information, as well as the resources mentioned in this episode, at ironcladapp.com.

Welcome to another episode of "Pearls On, Gloves Off," where we dive deep into the challenges and innovative strategies within the legal and corporate world. Today, we bring together all three past and current CLOC presidents: Jenn McCarron, Mike Haven, and Mary O'Carroll. They discuss everything from Legal Ops, to AI, blockchain, and the meaning of life.

In this Episode

• The history of legal ops & what is Legal Ops 3.0?

• Shifting from financial management to a more integrated, data-driven approach

• What skills are most in demand today

• Commiserating about experiences and challenges as Presidents of CLOC

• Adaptability and how to navigate the ever-changing landscape of work and tech

• The influence of social media on Legal Ops and its effectiveness in promoting the field

• Balancing an active social media presence with professional responsibilities

• Delving into the impact of AI on the legal industry

• Predictions for how AI will transform legal operations and steps needed for full integration

• The role of blockchain in ensuring data integrity and facilitating smoother operations in legal departments

• The future of Legal Ops, potential disruptions, and the continuing evolution of the field

Enjoyed this conversation? Don't forget to subscribe to "Pearls On, Gloves Off" for more insightful discussions with leading figures in the legal and corporate sectors. Share your thoughts and join the conversation on our social media channels.

• Follow Mary on LinkedIn: Mary's LinkedIn
• Follow Ironclad on LinkedIn: Ironclad LinkedIn
• Watch Ironclad on YouTube: Ironclad YouTube
• Check out Ironclad on TikTok: Ironclad TikTok
• Rate and review on Apple Podcasts: Pearls On, Gloves Off - Apple Podcasts

In this episode of Pearls On, Gloves Off, Mary is joined by Mike Haven, Senior Director, Associate General Counsel, and Head of Legal Operations at Intel, to talk about how he went from being a partner in a law firm to filling Mary's shoes as the President of CLOC.

Being close friends, Mary and Mike spend some time catching up and raving about the new Top Gun movie before diving into the real conversation. Before becoming a LegalOps extraordinaire, Mike had a very successful career as a partner at a law firm. He talks about finding his passion for LegalOps and how he was able to make the transition.

During the pandemic, Mike took over Mary's position as the President of CLOC, and he tells us how nervous he was to fill Mary's shoes. He goes on to talk about how he has transitioned CLOC and CLOC events out of the pandemic and brought them offline and back into the real world.

If you enjoyed today's show, please leave a 5-star review. You can find more information, as well as the resources mentioned in this episode, at ironcladapp.com.

In this episode, Mary is joined by Alex Su, Head of Community Development at Ironclad. Alex is somewhat of a celebrity in the legal operations field; his TikTok account @legaltechbro has nearly 75,000 followers.

Alex talks about his success on social media, where he gets his ideas, and how he deals with trolls. He goes into detail about the advantages of TikTok versus LinkedIn and explains how the communities on each platform are different.

As a former lawyer, Alex's career hasn't gone the way he thought it would. He recounts his decision to go from law to legal operations in 2016. Then it was still a new field and he explains how his colleagues questioned his decision. He tells Mary about how he knew it would be a stable career because of talking to people, following trends, and not being afraid of failure.

If you enjoyed today's show, please leave a 5-star review. You can find more information, as well as the resources mentioned in this episode, at ironcladapp.com.

In this episode, Mary is joined by her long-time friend Jenn McCarron, Director of Legal Operations and Technology at Netflix. The pair discuss Jenn's career trajectory, the growth of legal ops, and the massively successful CLOC event they attended recently.

Jenn takes us through the timeline of her career. Starting from when she was a child and wanted to be a cartoonist all the way to her present role as the director of legal operations at the world's largest streaming platform. Jenn provides great insight into the benefits of creativity in the legal ops space. She also shares how her own creativity has helped her in her career.

Mary and Jenn also walk through the recent, in-person, CLOC event they attended in Las Vegas and discuss what it was that made it such a success. Jenn describes how they filled the Bellagio hotel to capacity with their attendees and Mary goes into detail about how the event moved people to tears.

If you enjoyed today's show, please leave a 5-star review. You can find more information, as well as the resources mentioned in this episode, at ironcladapp.com.

Smooth operations keep businesses afloat but what makes them successful? Join Mary O'Carroll on her new podcast, Pearls On, Gloves Off, where she is not holding back. Mary is diving into the nitty-gritty of what it takes to run high-performing businesses.

Mary will be joined by leaders of some of today's best high-performing businesses for insightful conversations about what it takes to run one of these businesses. 

Mary O'Carroll spent 13 years as Director of Legal Operations at Google, 11 years as President at CLOC, and she is now Chief Community Officer at Ironclad. She knows what is necessary to keep a high-performing business running.

Mary is a huge advocate of innovation, modernization, and business transformation. She is not afraid to talk about the difficult decisions that are necessary to keep businesses performing at the highest level. If you are not afraid either and want to learn from respected leaders and luminaries, join her by tuning in to this podcast.

If you enjoyed today's show, please leave a 5-star review. You can find more information, as well as the resources mentioned in this episode, at ironcladapp.com.