The Outthinkers podcast is a growth strategy podcast hosted by Kaihan Krippendorff. Each week, Kaihan talks with forward-looking strategists and innovators that are challenging the status quo, leading the future of business, and shaping our world.
Chief strategy officers and executives can learn more and join the Outthinker community at https://outthinkernetwork.com/.
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#154 — Christina Farr: The Storyteller’s Advantage for Strategy and Growth
jeudi 20 novembre 2025 • Durée 39:20
Christina Farr is an investor, startup advisor, and former health-tech journalist. She’s the author of The Storyteller’s Advantage: How Powerful Narratives Make Businesses Thrive and the creator of the Second Opinion newsletter, where she decodes healthcare and technology for leaders.
Most leaders try to move markets with features, roadmaps, and metrics. But the winners often move them with narrative—stories that rally investors, customers, and teams to build the future with them. Christina unpacks how great storytellers create belief that becomes momentum.
You’ll learn a simple framework to make your strategy legible and compelling, how to pick the right plot for your message, and practical ways to craft origin stories, pitch decks, and CEO communications that persuade.
In this episode we cover:
The SOAP framework: Surprise, Openness, Authenticity, Pathos
Seven classic plots for business (from David vs. Goliath to Rebirth) and when to use each
Case studies: PillPack vs. incumbents; Apple’s comeback; Microsoft’s reinvention; WeWork’s cautionary tale
Fundraising and sales: decks that move capital and customers
Leading in tense moments: speaking to charged issues without fracturing culture
Episode Timeline:
00:00 – Highlight from today’s episode
01:05 – Introducing Christina + the power of narrative in business
03:05 – “If you really know me…”
04:20 – What is strategy? Story as prognostication
07:10 – Why story beats data alone in pitches, sales, and retention
10:55 – The SOAP framework (Surprise, Openness, Authenticity, Pathos)
22:00 – Seven plots leaders can borrow (with modern brand examples)
28:45 – Case study: PillPack’s David vs. Goliath playbook
32:40 – Rebirths and tragedies: Apple, Microsoft, WeWork
36:10 – Origin stories that travel (and ones that don’t)
38:10 – CEO comms on divisive topics, without breaking culture
39:20 – Where to learn more from Christina
Additional Resources:
Book: The Storyteller’s Advantage — Christina Farr (Basic Venture) -https://basic-venture.com/titles/christina-farr/the-storytellers-advantage/9781541704299/
Newsletter: Second Opinion - https://secondopinion.media/
Christina Farr on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/christinafarr/
Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.
Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast
#153 – Malte Bernholz of Adobe (Part 1): AI & The Creative Future
lundi 17 novembre 2025 • Durée 36:04
In this special in-person conversation recorded at Adobe’s global headquarters, host Kaihan Krippendorff sits down with Malte Bernholz, Vice President of Strategy and Incubation at Adobe.
Malte brings a unique lens, combining years of experience in consulting and technology leadership, to unpack what might be the most significant technological shift of our lifetime. Together, Kaihan and Malte explore:
The macro forces and creative trends redefining industries in the age of AI
Why this moment rivals—and perhaps surpasses—the dot-com boom in its impact
How AI is both lowering the floor of creativity, making it easier for anyone to create, and raising the ceiling, expanding what’s possible for professionals
How personalization at scale is transforming customer experiences
And what this means for the future of brands, creativity, and human originality
It’s a conversation about courage, imagination, and leadership at the edge of technological change.
And for the first time, you can watch this conversation as well as listen—check out the video version on Outthinker.com or YouTube.
Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.
Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast
#145—Ryan Hamilton: Growing and Managing Customer Segments Successfully
mardi 1 juillet 2025 • Durée 47:24
Ryan Hamilton is an associate professor of marketing at Emory University's Goizueta Business School and co-author of The Growth Dilemma:Managing Your Brand When Different Customers Want Different Things. He is also co-host of the podcast The Intuitive Customer, and author of a book by the same name.He has consulted on branding with companies like Walmart, FedEx, Home Depot, Caterpillar, ConAgra, Cigna, Visa, and Ipsos, among others.
To start a successful brand, you usually need to focus in on a specific, often niche, customer. But to grow the brand, you need to expand your customer base. A few brands have done this well (e.g., Starbucks or Apple) which have this loyal passionate base of fans that stick with them as the brands become ubiquitous. But, more often, brands fail to scale because the new customer they need in order to scale are too different from those core customers. They have different values or needs or beliefs.
In this episode, we dive into this dilemma, discussing how to predict, preempt, and manage the conflicts that will arise between a brand’s initial customers and the more varied customer segments it must attract in order to scale.
In this episode we cover:
This concept of “CSRM”—customer segment relationship management”
Examples of companies who have managed the growth dilemma well and those that have not—and what insights we can draw
A practical framework outlining the four types of customer relationship scenarios you may be facing, and what strategies to deploy for each one
How brands must be intentional about the type of value they offer
Episode Timeline: 00:00—Highlight from today's episode 01:14—Introducing Ryan + the topic of today’s episode 03:44—If you really know me, you know that... 05:12—What's your definition of strategy? 05:52—The basis for Ryan's second book, The Growth Dilemma 08:34—Breaking down an "identity of culture," within a brand 11:07—Have brands moved from functional to identity-based culture? 15:30—The concept of CSRM: Customer Segment Relationships Management (and the 2 x 2 matrix)25:25—Breaking down the different types of customer segment conflicts38:07—How do you know when you need to "fire" a customer segment?41:19—How do the principles talked about in this episode apply to the employee segments?43:30—How does the age of hyper-customization affect customer relationship management?46:02—How can people continue learning from you?______________________________________________________________Additional Resources:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryan-hamilton-49b3321/Book website: https://www.growthdilemmabook.com/
#55—Anna Tavis: Preparing for the Future of Work
Épisode 54
vendredi 19 août 2022 • Durée 22:12
Dr. Anna Tavis is Clinical Professor and Academic Director of Human Capital Management Department at NYU School of Professional Studies, Senior Fellow with the Conference Board, and the Academic in Residence with Executive Networks. Anna has been named to Thinkers50 Radar for 2020. Her latest book, Humans at Work. The Art and Practice of Creating a Remote Workplace, was published in the spring of 2022.
Anna publishes regularly and has been quoted by the Washington Post, Bloomberg, The Human Resources Executive, and Training Magazine. Her Harvard Business Review articles with Peter Cappelli "HR Goes Agile" ( 2018) and "The Performance Management Revolution" (2016) were reprinted in HBR's Must Reads and in Agile: The Insights You Need from Harvard Business Review (2020).
She has navigated a diverse global career in academia, business and consulting, and was the Head of Motorola’s EMEA OD function based in London, Nokia’s Global Head of Talent Management based in Helsinki, Chief Learning Officer with United Technologies Corp based in Hartford, CT and Global Head of Talent and Organizational Development with AIG Investments based in NYC.
Her work on the topics of Future of Work, People Analytics and Technology, Employee Experience and Intelligent Automation in the Workplace are truly at the cutting edge.
In this podcast, she shares:
Three trends most impacting the future of work
How AI will shape what work humans do in the future
Why diversity and inclusion matter
What it will take for an organization or a leader in an organization to win the war for talent going forward
#54—James Heskett: Building a Culture for Competitive Advantage
Épisode 54
vendredi 1 juillet 2022 • Durée 22:04
James L. Heskett is UPS Foundation Professor Emeritus at the Harvard Business School and author of his latest book, Win From Within: Build Organizational Culture for Competitive Advantage. He completed his Ph.D. at the Graduate School of Business, Stanford University, and has been a member of the faculty of The Ohio State University as well as President of Logistics Systems, Inc. Since 2000, he has authored a blog on the school's Working Knowledge web site. He has served as a consultant to companies in North America, Latin America, and Europe.
James was the 1974 recipient of the John Drury Sheahan Award of the Council of Logistics Management, the 1992 Marketing Educator of the Year Award of Sales and Marketing Executives International, and the 2010 Distinguished Career Contribution Award in Services Management of American Marketing Association.
Among his publications are books The Culture Cycle (FT Press, 2011), co-authorship of The Ownership Quotient (Harvard Business Press, 2008), The Value Profit Chain (The Free Press, 2003); The Service Profit Chain (The Free Press, 1997); Corporate Culture and Performance, among many others, and numerous articles in such publications as the Harvard Business Review, Journal of Marketing, Sloan Management Review, and California Management Review.
A member of the faculty of the Harvard Business School since 1965, he has at different times taught courses in marketing, business logistics, the management of service operations, business policy, and service management, general management, and the entrepreneurial manager as well as served as Senior Associate Dean in charge of academic programs.
In this podcast, he shares:
Why companies with strong cultures often DON’T outperform and what kind of culture you actually need to win
Lessons from successful culture design efforts from companies like Microsoft, Uber, Southwest Airlines, and Ritz Carlton
Some of the most important things you must do as a leader to transform the culture of your organization
Why the idea that culture takes a long time is false, and how you can actually set the change in motion is six months
#53—Emmanuel Probst: Branding Hacks to Stay Competitive
Épisode 1
vendredi 24 juin 2022 • Durée 26:11
Emmanuel Probst is Global Lead, Brand Thought-Leadership at Ipsos, adjunct professor at the University of California at Los Angeles, and the author of Wall Street Journal and USA Today bestseller Brand Hacks: How to Build Brands by Fulfilling the Human Quest for Meaning
Emmanuel’s background combines over 16 years of market research and marketing experience with strong academic achievements.
At Ipsos, Emmanuel supports numerous Fortune 500 companies by providing them with a full understanding of their customer’s journey. His clients span across a wide range of industries, including consumer packaged goods, retail, financial services, advertising agencies and media outlets.
Emmanuel also teaches Consumer Market Research at UCLA and writes about consumer psychology for numerous publications.
He holds an MBA in Marketing from the University of Hull, United Kingdom and a Doctorate in Consumer Psychology from the University of Nottingham Trent, United Kingdom.
In this podcast, he shares:
In what ways B2B branding and B2C branding are different, and in what ways they are the same
Why brands are increasingly finding they need to compete on purpose rather than the uniqueness of their product
Why to be effective at competing the ecosystem-based future we will need to think about activating a community of companies, bound by a common purpose, to deliver experiences rather than outcomes
"What people care about is find something that is fulfilling and something that contributes to building their personality and who they and their family and their world. And brands can help with this. What feels really important to me is the hero is the audience whom becomes the consumer. The hero is not the brand."
#52—James Stavridis: Nine Lessons in Making High-Risk Decisions Under Pressure
Épisode 52
vendredi 17 juin 2022 • Durée 19:43
Admiral James Stavridis, USN (Ret.) spent more than thirty years in the U.S. Navy, rising to the rank of four-star admiral.
He was Supreme Allied Commander at NATO and previously commanded U.S. Southern Command, overseeing military operations through Latin America. At sea, he commanded a Navy destroyer, a destroyer squadron, and an aircraft carrier battle group in combat.
He holds a Ph. D. from the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts University, where he recently served five years as dean. He received fifty medals in the course of his military career, including twenty-eight from foreign nations.
James is the author of To Risk It All: Nine Conflicts and the Crucible of Decision, which he shares insights from here.
He has published nine other books, including 2034: A Novel of the Next World War, with Elliott Ackerman. He is chief international analyst for NBC News and a contributing editor for Time magazine.
He is currently the Vice Chair, Global Affairs of the Carlyle Group and the Chair of the Board of Trustees for the Rockefeller Foundation
In this podcast, he shares:
The strategic lesson we can draw from great military leaders of the past, John Paul Jones, and today, Admiral Michelle Howard
Four keys to making the right decision, especially in moments of urgency
Tips for keeping focused on your “north star” and avoid getting distracted by near-term noise
#51—Ben Casnocha: Embracing Your Inner Entrepreneur
Épisode 51
vendredi 10 juin 2022 • Durée 20:56
Ben Casnocha is an entrepreneur and cofounder of Village Global, a Silicon Valley venture capital firm that has funded hundreds of startups and the co-author, with LinkedIn co-founder Reid Hoffman, of The Start-Up of You: Adapt, Take Risks, Grow your Network, and Transform Your Career.
He delivers keynote speeches on business and globalization and has appeared on CBS’s The Early Show, CNN, and CNBC.
He is the coauthor of the New York Times bestselling management book The Alliance: Managing Talent in the Networked Age (with LinkedIn chairman Reid Hoffman and entrepreneur Chris Yeh).
He started and scaled several ventures, including an e-government software company (Comcate) that currently delivers hosted CRM solutions to hundreds of local governments in America, an online education business, and a top tier boutique management training business.
In this podcast, he shares:
His view on what the future of work will look like, and why embracing randomness and building your network will become ever more important
Why we should stop thinking of employees as “family” or “free agents” but rather as allies on a “tour of duty”
Whether we are experiencing today a true shift in the nature of the employer-employee contract, or whether the pendulum will swing back
"One of the new terms is the concept of portfolio careers because we realized that in the last 10 years, there are so many people who don't just have one job. Their career is stitched together, different a lot of writers and speakers and consultants run this at the high end. And at the low end, it's gig workers and everywhere in between. And so people are stitching together kind of braiding the modern career together in a way that's very different than the 40-hour-a-week company man."
Salim Ismail is the lead author of the bestselling business book, Exponential Organizations. A renowned technology strategist and serial entrepreneur with ties to Yahoo!, Google, and Singularity University, he consults with governments and the world’s top Fortune 500 companies on innovation and growth. His work has been featured in premier media outlets like the New York Times, Bloomberg Business Week, Fortune, Forbes, WIRED, Vogue, and the BBC.
Salim founded ExOWorks in 2016 to help transform global business by catapulting organizations into the world of exponential thinking. He travels extensively sharing a global perspective on the impact of breakthrough technologies and how organizations can leverage these disruptions to grow 10 times faster than their peers. He is co-founder and Chairman of OpenExO and an active Board Member of the XPRIZE Foundation.
In this podcast, he shares:
Why a new breed of organization is emerging and what that organization looks like
What exponential technologies are, which of those we should be tracking, and how they will impact your organizations’ future
Three practical steps you can take to fight corporate antibodies and get your leadership to take innovation seriously
"We've never seen this much innovation hit us at the same time globally, ever. That means, every piece that you thought about the world before is gone."
00:00—Introducing Salim + The topic of today’s episode
1:51—If you really know me you know that...
2:10—What is your definition of strategy?
2:58—Could you tell us about your journey with ExO, and what it is?
#49—Geoff Smart: A Proven Method for Optimizing Your Hiring Process
Épisode 49
vendredi 27 mai 2022 • Durée 20:29
Dr. Geoff Smart is the Chairman & Founder of ghSMART. Founded in 1995, ghSMART helps Fortune 500 CEOs & boards, billionaire entrepreneurs, and heads of state achieve their goals through hiring, developing, and leading talented teams. They serve clients globally from 12 offices in North America and Europe.
For three consecutive years, Forbes named ghSMART the best management consulting firm in its industry segment. ghSMART is the subject of two Harvard Business School Cases, and its credo is “We exist to help leaders amplify their positive impact on the world.”
ghSMART has published three bestselling books. Who: A Method for Hiring is a New York Times bestseller that is currently ranked #1 on Amazon.com on the topic of hiring talented teams, among a number of other bestsellers such as TopGrading and the Power Score.
Geoff has personally advised four sitting U.S. Governors, a U.S. Senator, White House Fellows, world leaders in education, defense, and public health, and the President of the World Bank.
In this podcast, he shares:
What Peter Drucker really meant by “Culture eats strategy for breakfast.”
Insights from a decades-long study into hiring practices
The big reasons why the success rate in hiring is only 50%
The four practices you can put in place to raise that success rate to 90%
"So to me, strategy and culture both come from having better talent, more talented, diverse good-hearted people on your team than the next competitor. That's the work, that's the hard work once you have that "Oh, sure let's go international, let's go digital, let's smoke this set of competitors. Let's do this customer segmentation." You can do strategy when you have the right talent and culture."
Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.
Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast
Episode Timeline:
00:00—Introducing Anna + The topic of today’s episode
2:29—If you really know me, you know that...
3:38—What is your definition of strategy?
4:43—How do you define work?
5:47—How is work changing?
9:37—Could you give us a visual of how this re-emergence of the era of creative work is happening?
11:05—How is the role of society and companies for employees going to change in light of how work is changing?
13:50—Is culture defined by value or behaviors?
16:22—You talk about the phases of an effective culture transformation—could you talk about those?
Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.
Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast
Six steps you can take, in a particular order, to do so
Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.
Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast
Episode Timeline:
00:00—Introducing Emmanuel + The topic of today’s episode
2:35—What is your definition of strategy?
2:57—You write a lot about meaning, can you define what you mean by meaning?
5:20—Is brand purpose different than meaning?
8:38—While the principles we've talked can work on the B2B side, they are more consumer-focused. How do you make them work to your advantage in B2B?
10:39—A brand often has a customer brand and an employer brand—do you think establishing an "ecosystem" brand to appeal to potential partners?
13:11—How do you approach segmenting the different needs various partners may have?
17:09—Is developing a brand for an ecosystem different than developing a brand for a product or company?
21:20—We're shifting towards attracting partners that can help complement the overall customer experience, not just product. What are your thoughts on that?
23:45—Do you have any last thoughts you'd like to share?
Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.
Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast
Episode Timeline:
00:00—Introducing James + The topic of today’s episode
2:22—If you really know me you know that...
3:18—What is your definition of strategy?
3:40—What do people get wrong with strategy?
4:30—Can you outline the topics in your book, To Risk it All?
7:31—Could you tell us about the nine core principles and lessons from your stories?
11:00—Could you talk about how your ideas aren't about having a structured set of contingency plans, but more a cultural shift in mindset to be prepared—could you talk about that?
12:50—How do you keep a clear eye on the right target, the "north star" so to speak?
14:48—What's something you've changed your mind about?
17:17—Could you tell us about your novel, 2034: A Novel of the Next World War?
18:38—What put you on the path of entrepreneurship that led you to Village Global, your venture capital firm?
Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.
Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast
Episode Timeline:
00:00—Introducing Ben + The topic of today’s episode
1:51—If you really know me you know that...
2:13—What is your definition of strategy?
2:54—Could you tell us about your book, The Startup of You?
5:44—What do you think has changed in the job market that prompted you to change the title of your book from the first to the second edition?
7:41—Can you tell us about how leadership has changed from authority to creating followership?
9:24—What are the implications of your insights into how hiring consequently changes because of these insights?
10:50—What are your thoughts of how the average tenure of CEOs has changed in the last 10 years to be much shorter?
12:58—Do you believe that the shift of power from the employer to the employee is permanent or will swing back at some point?
16:36—Could you talk to us about your idea of luck?
18:38—What put you on the path of entrepreneurship that led you to Village Global, your venture capital firm?
Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.
Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast
5:54—Could you explain exponential technology to us?
8:45—How can you function as an ExO organization (the ExO business model)
10:45—Could you give us a breakdown of the tool set you use to transform a business into an exponential one?
12:01—How can you overcome the existing business organization functions to get ideas from being just ideas to reality?
14:26—How do you disrupt your organization's own immune system?
16:55—How are companies branding themselves differently in light of this new wave of businesses?
18:05—What is your opinion on all the newer technologies that have surfaced in the last few year (blockchain, crypto, etc.)?
Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.
Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast
Episode Timeline:
00:00—Introducing Geoff + The topic of today’s episode
2:13—If you really know me you know that...
2:54—What is your definition of strategy?
3:59—What did you take away with your experience working with Peter Drucker?
6:31—Could you give us a brief overview of the framework from your most successful book, Who?
8:54—What are things you shouldn't do when hiring?
10:49—What are the four things you should be doing for successful hiring?
15:29—The third step of the hiring framework
16:37—The last step of the framework
17:19—What is something you've changed your mind about?
18:14—How can people connect with you and learn more about what you're working on?
Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening.
Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast
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