Explorez tous les épisodes du podcast Out Of Programme

What happens when a surgical trainee and former parliamentary candidate pivots into pharmaceutical medicine, rises to global VP, and then walks away to found his own consultancy on his own terms?

In this episode, we speak with Dr David Montgomery, a consultant in pharmaceutical medicine, former global VP at Pfizer, and co-founder of PM Life Sciences, a pharmaceutical advisory firm and consultancy.

• 🏗️ The freedom of founding his own consultancy — starting from scratch and the liberation of building something entirely his own

• 🔬 Leaving surgery after eight years during the chaos of modernising medical careers

• 🚀 The meteoric rise — medical director within 2.5 years of leaving medicine, global VP before 40 — and the candour about the VP role he "didn't nail"

• 🏛️ Running as a Conservative parliamentary candidate in the bruising 2015 election, and the politics of healthcare learned up close

• 💼 Why the world outside medicine is far less meritocratic — and what "saying yes even when terrifying" actually looks like

David's story is a candid, unvarnished look at navigating pharma, politics and career reinvention — and the freedom that comes from building something your own.

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🎧 Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts

What happens when a South African anaesthetist survives cerebral oedema on Everest, bootstraps an NHS appraisal platform with no external funding, and sells it to one of the UK's fastest-growing health tech companies?

In this episode, we speak with Dr Patrick Doyle, a consultant anaesthetist who founded L2P — the leading platform for job planning, appraisals and revalidation — which was acquired by Patchwork Health after 15 years of growth.

• 🏔️ Surviving Everest — getting cerebral oedema at Camp 3, being unconscious overnight, and walking down the next day before the team even started the clinical research
• 💼 How a "pain point" — endlessly emailing regulatory paperwork to different organisations — became L2P, born in 2009 and initially 10 years ahead of the market
• 🚀 Bootstrapping the whole way — bank loans, a mortgage extension and a bounce-back loan instead of VC, and watching every single penny

• 🔁 Life after acquisition — handing over the mundane stuff, getting back to research, and writing up his Everest paper with AI in half an hour

Patrick's story is a masterclass in bootstrapping a niche NHS product to a successful exit — and knowing when the time is right to hand it over.

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🎧 Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts

What happens when a South African surgeon gets plucked out by Lord Darzi, builds the first machine-readable BNF, and spins a company out of Imperial that reduces prescribing errors by 83%?

In this episode, we speak with Dr Nick Appelbaum, a surgeon turned entrepreneur who went from inventing spreadsheet-based prescribing safety tools in South Africa to completing a PhD with Lord Ara Darzi at Imperial, leading clinical research at the Helix Centre, and founding Dosium — a company now integrating the BNF into NHS prescribing systems.

• 🔬 How a "self-help program that grew out of hand" — inventing medication safety tools in South Africa's trauma centres — landed him a meeting with Lord Darzi

• 🏛️ Why Lord Darzi laughed at his plan to do an immunology PhD at Oxford and instead put him on the 10th floor at St Mary's to build something real

• 📚 The seven-year journey to create the first machine-readable British National Formulary, working with the Royal Pharmaceutical Society

• 🏥 Founding Dosium and integrating the BNF into NHS electronic prescribing — reducing the odds of a medication error by 83% across deployed trusts

• 💡 Why "academic projects die without putting the infrastructure in place upfront" — and how the NIHR I4I grant forced the spinout decision

• 🎯 The advice he wishes he'd had earlier: "find the suits, speak to the CFO, validate the economic proposition early — don't leave it to the last minute"

Nick's story is a masterclass in turning a clinical frustration into a national infrastructure play, with the right mentorship and institutional backing.

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🎧 Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts

What happens when a doctor trained in experimental psychology leaves medicine in F2, builds products in Silicon Valley, runs a £10M/day COVID testing programme, and becomes Chief Product Officer of the UK's largest health research study?

In this episode, we speak with Dr Cosima Gretton, a medical doctor who left clinical practice to pursue product management in the US, served as Deputy Director at NHS Test & Trace during the pandemic, and is now Chief Product Officer at Our Future Health — a research programme that has recruited over 2.5 million participants across the UK.

• 🧠 Why studying human factors design and cross-modal integration at Oxford made her see clinical systems as fundamentally flawed — and why she couldn't unsee it

• 🎨 Founding AXNS Collective as a medical student — bringing together artists, neuroscientists, and an LSD research project at Imperial College London

• 🌉 How a friend's persistent invitation to apply for Singularity University in Silicon Valley changed the entire trajectory of her career

• 🦠 Leading LAMP testing at NHS Test & Trace — the pressure of a 10-million-tests-per-day Christmas target and what it's like when government actually works at startup pace

• 📊 Becoming CPO at Our Future Health and building the infrastructure to recontact 2.5 million participants for clinical research — and return their data back to them

Cosima's story is a rare window into what happens when a clinician fully commits to the product discipline — and why the two mindsets are harder to reconcile than most people think.

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🎧 Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts

What happens when a medical student sells a surgical robotics startup before finishing FY1 — and then spends the next decade inventing devices he deliberately never runs?

In this episode, we speak with Dr Alastair Darwood, a medical doctor with a bioengineering PhD who has built a career as an inventor and entrepreneur across medical devices, consumer hardware, and cycling technology. From orthopaedic robotics to analgesic masks to e-bikes, Alastair's playbook is always the same: invent, validate, license — then move on to the next problem.

• 🔬 How he founded Prometheus Surgical as a medical student, raised £170k, and sold it to De Souter Medical in FY1 — the robot is now in use on patients as the Solito

• 🫁 Building a low-cost ventilator during COVID with Red Bull Advanced Technologies — and why the project was shut down just as it started working

• 🚴 Co-founding Scarpa, an e-bike electrification company with £14M raised and products now stocked in 70 UK shops — without touching the business side

• 😷 Licensing an analgesic mask to Intersurgical that is currently in clinical trials at St Mary's — patient-controlled inhalational anaesthesia for procedures that don't need a GA

• 🤖 Why AI has turned invention into Lego bricks — and how a project that would have taken a year now takes three weeks

Alastair's story is a masterclass in finding your unfair advantage, building a playbook around it, and having the discipline to hand everything else to someone else.

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🎧 Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts

What happens when a Consultant Psychiatrist, NHS Digital Exemplar leader, and GIRFT national lead decides the only way to truly fix children's mental health services is to leave the NHS and build an AI startup?

In this episode, we speak with Dr Guy Northover, Consultant in Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, Chief Clinical Information Officer at Berkshire Healthcare NHS Foundation Trust, and co-founder of Anathem — an AI company that has reduced frontline mental health admin burden by 61%.

• 🚗 Why he quit A&E, bought a Land Rover, and drove to Ghana to work out what he actually wanted from medicine

• 🏥 How Berkshire Healthcare became one of only seven mental health trusts to achieve Global Digital Exemplar status — and was already COVID-ready before the pandemic hit

• 📊 His work as GIRFT National Clinical Lead for CAMHS, and how data alone helped halve the number of children admitted to inpatient units nationwide

• 🤖 Co-founding Anathem with a chance conversation at a children's hockey match — and why a 61% reduction in admin burden is changing whether clinicians stay or leave the NHS

• ⚖️ The uncomfortable reality of managing conflict of interest as a senior NHS leader running a startup in your own specialty — and why it's worth navigating anyway

• 💡 Why senior clinicians make the best founders — and how vibe coding with Lovable has made him a one-man product team

Guy's story is a compelling case for why the NHS needs its most experienced leaders to take the entrepreneurial leap — not despite their seniority, but because of it.

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🎧 Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts

What happens when a GP trainee with zero finance knowledge decides to break into healthcare VC — and ends up co-founding a clinician-led angel syndicate?

In this episode, we speak with Dr Meenakshi Jhala, NIHR Academic Clinical Fellow at King's College London, Chief of Staff at Syntax, and co-founder of Tiny Ventures and DX Capital — a clinician-led angel syndicate dedicated to funding the innovations healthcare actually needs.

• 🩺 Why guideline-driven medicine felt like being a tomato in a greenhouse — and what made her look beyond clinical training

• 📈 How she broke into healthcare VC as a fifth-year medical student with no finance background, conducting due diligence at Rise Asset Management

• 🤝 The relationship-building philosophy that unlocked every role she's ever had — and why 100% of her work has come through connections

• 🚀 Building Tiny Ventures as an accelerator for aspiring investors and launching DX Capital to fund what clinicians know actually matters

• 🧠 Why doctors can't just be badge collectors — and the difference between execution and ambition

• 💡 How she balances clinical practice, research, a startup, and an angel syndicate without attaching emotion to any of it

Meenakshi's story is a masterclass in curiosity, execution, and building a career that's genuinely yours — not the one the system designed for you.

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🎧 Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts

What happens when a cardiologist realises NHS IT is failing patients — and decides to build an AI clinician that actually listens?

In this episode, we speak with Dr Dom Pimenta, a former NHS cardiologist who left clinical practice to co-found Tortus AI, an intelligent ambient voice interface for clinicians backed by Entrepreneur First and Khosla Ventures.

• 🏥 Why Dom's Catholic upbringing and childhood obsession with death led him to medicine — and why he eventually left

• 🧠 The frustration of watching NHS IT systems fail clinicians and patients, and the moment he decided to build something better

• 🔧 How Entrepreneur First helped him pivot from doctor to founder, and the reality of raising venture capital as a clinician

• ⚖️ The ethics of AI in healthcare — why "human-in-the-loop" matters and what Dom learned from deploying AI in live clinical environments

• 📈 What Tortus AI actually does, how it works, and why ambient voice interfaces might be the future of clinical documentation

• 🎯 Dom's advice for clinicians considering the leap into healthtech entrepreneurship — and what he'd do differently

Dom's story is a candid exploration of what it takes to leave a secure clinical career, bet on yourself, and build technology that might actually fix the system you left behind.

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🎧 Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts

What happens when a doctor spends a decade at McKinsey, returns to the NHS, and creates a Chief Innovation Officer role from scratch?

In this episode, we speak with Dr Rishi Das-Gupta, former Chief Innovation Officer at Royal Brompton Hospital and now CEO of Health Innovation Network South London and DigitalHealth.London.

He shares how he went from covering the whole hospital overnight as a junior doctor to reshaping how the NHS adopts technology at scale.

• 🏥 The one-in-four on-call rota that showed him what the NHS was getting wrong

• 🧮 Why he left medicine for McKinsey — and why two years became ten

• 🧠 Building a US healthcare practice and lessons from data-rich industries

• 🔧 Returning to the NHS after a decade away and creating a Chief Innovation Officer role

• ⚖️ Why implementation beats strategy — and making change happen inside hospital systems

• 📈 The future of NHS digital transformation and why he's optimistic about what's next

Rishi's story is a masterclass in leaving medicine, gaining industry perspective, and returning to transform the system from within.

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🎧 Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts

What if the path to your true calling isn't through following expectations, but through recognising where your real talents lie?

In this episode, we speak with Dr James Somauroo, former anaesthetist turned health tech entrepreneur, who transformed his realisation that he was "better at fixing the system than treating patients" into a remarkable career building the infrastructure for health innovation.

• 👨‍⚕️ From immigrant family expectations to discovering his true strengths lay elsewhere

• 🏛️ The Bruce Keough Fellowship and co-founding the Clinical Entrepreneur Programme

• 🚀 Leading Digital Health London Accelerator and running his own health tech accelerator

• 💰 The £40M fund that almost was—lessons from a deal undone by COVID

• 🎙️ Building SomX from scratch with his wife Jess, bootstrapped to success

• 💡 Why clinicians should seek purpose, not just "any port in a storm"

James's journey from reluctant doctor to communications agency CEO reveals how embracing your authentic skills—even when they defy expectations—can lead to extraordinary impact.

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🎧 Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts

What happens when four radiologists decide to build a health tech company while still working clinically – and end up raising Series B funding while hiring junior doctors into non-clinical roles?

In this episode, we speak with Dr Farzana Rahman, a consultant radiologist and CEO of Hexarad, a technology and services company that helps hospitals deliver faster and more efficient radiology reporting. Her journey reveals how clinician founders think differently about scaling, hiring, and the future of health tech in the UK.

• 🏥 The path from consultant radiologist to startup founder – without a business background

• 💻 Why four radiologists founding a company together was never really a question of who'd be CEO

• 🧠 The unique qualities junior doctors bring to startups (and why tech companies need them)

• 🚀 Building Hexarad as a side project, then making the leap to full-time founder

• ⚖️ Scaling a Series B company with a radiologist–led executive team – and the challenges of health tech in the UK

• 🤝 Radical candour, coaching, and building a culture where people aren't afraid to ask for help

Farzana's story reveals how lived clinical experience becomes an unfair advantage in building for healthcare – and why the best startup founders might just be the ones who've already thrived under pressure.

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🎧 Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts

What happens when a burned-out registrar ignores consultant warnings and teaches himself code—then builds AI tools that bridge clinical care and startup innovation?

In this episode, we speak with Dr Paul Jewell, a medical doctor and health tech entrepreneur who co-founded Assuric, a compliance platform for digital health companies, whilst continuing to work as a locum clinician.

• 🏥 The family legacy of medicine and why Paul initially pursued it — despite a growing itch for technology

• 💻 Learning to code on exhausted NHS shifts: the frustration that sparked his pivot

• 🧠 The NG tube AI project that never was — and how competing priorities taught him about focus

• 🔧 Building hospital apps that solve real clinical problems, from guideline access to diagnostic support

• ⚠️ The "grave mistake" warning from consultants — and why Paul took the career break anyway

• 🚀 Co-founding Assuric and staying clinically active: why doctors make better health tech founders

Paul's story reveals how sometimes the moves your mentors warn against lead to your best work — and why lived clinical experience is an unfair advantage in building for healthcare.

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🎧 Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts

What happens when an anaesthetist with a passion for physiology discovers the world of sleep medicine — and decides to build a tech startup to solve one of healthcare's biggest undiagnosed problems?

In this episode, we speak with Dr Tom Chambers, an anaesthetist, sleep medicine specialist, and co-founder of Theta Sleep. Tom shares his journey from traditional medical training to founding a health tech company that's bringing sleep apnea care from hospitals into patients' homes.

• 🏥 The accidental discovery of sleep medicine during an F2 respiratory rotation at Barts

• 🧠 How a chance meeting at a WIRED Health conference led to consulting opportunities

• 🔧 The leap from clinical practice to startup life — and the challenges of learning on the job

• 👨‍👩‍👧‍👦 Building Theta Sleep with his brother as CEO — and navigating that unique dynamic

• ⚖️ Why sleep medicine is perfectly positioned for tech-enabled home care

Tom's story is a masterclass in following curiosity, saying yes to opportunities, and building a business that solves a genuine healthcare need at scale.

What happens when a junior doctor leads the biggest NHS dispute in a generation — and then builds a global medical education organisation?

In this episode, we speak with Dr Johann Malawana, an obstetrician and former chair of the BMA's Junior Doctors Committee during the high-profile 2015-2016 contract dispute. He is now the founder and CEO of Medics.Academy, a global health education company, and holds several senior academic roles.

• 🏥 How Johann fell into medical school politics — and ended up chairing the BMA

• ⚕️ The reality of leading industrial action during the junior doctors contract battle

• 🧠 Why he founded Medics.Academy and scaled it into a global edtech platform

• 🔧 Lessons from balancing clinical practice with entrepreneurship and academic leadership

• ⚖️ The importance of maintaining your clinical identity while building outside medicine

• 📈 How to navigate high-stakes negotiations and emerge with your principles intact

Johann's story is a masterclass in leadership under pressure, taking calculated risks, and building a career that spans clinical practice, politics, and technology — without losing sight of what matters.

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🎧 Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts

What happens when two medical students spot a dirty tourniquet, build a single-use alternative that sells 75 million units globally — and one of them still operates every week as an NHS consultant plastic surgeon?

In this episode, we speak with Ryan Kerstein, a consultant plastic surgeon and Associate Medical Director for Research and Innovation at Buckinghamshire Healthcare NHS Trust. Ryan leads the BRAIN Innovation Unit, directs the Royal College of Surgeons iHub, and co-founded ASAP Healthcare as a medical student.

• 🏥 How a mucky reusable tourniquet in the MRSA era sparked a med school business idea
• 🔧 From cutting tray paper in McDonald's to landing on the NHS Supply Chain with 75 million units sold
• 💼 Leaving surgery for BCG management consulting — and why he came back to the NHS
• 🧠 Being told to take innovation off his CV — and stubbornly proving the doubters wrong
• 🚀 Building the first national surgical innovation group and championing a new career path for clinical intrapreneurs
• ⚖️ Balancing a full-time clinical practice with portfolio leadership roles across trust, college, and company

Ryan's journey is a masterclass in turning frontline frustration into lasting impact — and proof that you don't have to choose between clinical excellence and driving innovation.

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🎧 Listen on: Spotify | Apple Podcasts

What happens when a radiologist leaves clinical practice to become a HealthTech investor, backing 100+ startups, and championing philanthropy in healthcare?

In this episode, we speak with Dr Fiona Pathiraja-Moller, a former NHS radiologist turned HealthTech investor and managing partner of Christa Gali Ventures, a European investment fund backing early-stage HealthTech startups. Fiona is also a board trustee for several prestigious organisations including the Royal College of Physicians and the Royal Botanical Gardens, Kew, and leads philanthropic efforts in healthcare, education, and the arts through her family office, IPQ Capital.

• 🏥 The early spark: How medical school fascination with the human body led to radiology
• 🤔 From F2 to management consultancy: Questioning the system and proactively acquiring new skills
• 🧠 Challenging the status quo: Taking back agency and rejecting “this is just how it is”
• 💡 Making real impact: How a Department of Health policy Fiona worked on affected 91,000 junior doctors
• 🚀 From angel investor to fund manager: Founding Christa Gali Ventures and backing over 150 startups
• 📈 The raw truth behind startup success: Navigating co-founder splits, lawsuits, and valuation slashes
• 💖 Beyond the hustle: Supporting founders through life’s toughest moments
• 🌱 Philanthropy and governance: Championing modern leadership and giving back through global institutions

Fiona’s story is a deep dive into how to continuously challenge convention, cultivate a diverse portfolio of interests, and leverage your unique perspective to drive meaningful change, both in and out of medicine.

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🎧 Listen on: ⁠Spotify⁠ | ⁠Apple Podcasts

What happens when a doctor with cystic fibrosis, who was once told he may not be able to cope with the rigours of medicine, not only becomes a doctor but also founds a MedTech company aimed at improving patient experience?

In this episode, we speak with Dr Jonathan King, a gastroenterology registrar, NHS clinical entrepreneur fellow, and founder of Medical Ease. Jonathan shares his extraordinary path from patient to doctor, driven by a deep desire to help others and transform healthcare from the inside out.

• 🏥 How a life-changing hospital admission at 15 inspired Jonathan to pursue medicine, despite his own battle with cystic fibrosis.
• 🤔 The personal challenges and external doubts he faced, including being advised against medicine due to his health, and how he proved them wrong.
• 🇮🇳 His profound experience in India, which led to a near lung transplant and a pivotal shift in his medical career and perspective.
• 🏃‍♂️ How his dedication to exercise not only improved his health but also sparked the idea for remote patient monitoring.
• 💡 The serendipitous journey and unique challenges of founding Medical Ease, a digital health startup tackling language and accessibility barriers in clinical care.
• 🤝 Jonathan’s experience as a fellow with the prestigious European accelerator, EWAR, and the invaluable community and lessons learned.

Jonathan’s story is a powerful testament to resilience, innovation, and using personal adversity to drive meaningful change in healthcare. He shares candidly about the trade-offs and difficulties of balancing a demanding clinical career with the entrepreneurial hustle.

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🎧 Listen on: ⁠Spotify⁠ | ⁠Apple Podcasts

From a junior doctor to a prominent HealthTech voice and founder – how did Dr. Derrick Khor build a thriving medical consulting group and become a go-to expert for health innovation?

In this episode, we sit down with Dr Derrick Khor, a clinical oncology doctor, HealthTech connector, and founder of the Medical Consulting Group. He shares his incredible journey from a self-proclaimed "pure medic" to advising ventures like GG Ventures, Zinc, and VentureBlink, all while bridging the gap between medicine and innovation.

• ⚕️ How a strong conviction for oncology at 18 led him across continents to the UK, and the cultural shifts he encountered in medical practice.
• 🦠 The unexpected catalyst of COVID-19 and the birth of his HealthTech journey – from a frustrated ST3 to a LinkedIn sensation.
• 📈 The evolution of "Adopt-a-Doc" into the Medical Consulting Group, scaling clinical engagement and understanding the true value of clinician input.
• 🧠 Navigating imposter syndrome and the profound realisation that clinicians possess invaluable, often overlooked, expertise for HealthTech founders.
• ⚖️ The delicate balance of saying "yes" to opportunities while safeguarding personal values and avoiding exploitation in a rapidly growing industry.
• 👨‍👩‍👧‍👦 Balancing a demanding clinical career, a thriving business, and family life with two young children.

Join us as Dr. Khor reveals the power of consistency, authentic engagement, and the art of translating clinical insight into commercial impact.

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🎧 Listen on: ⁠Spotify⁠ | ⁠Apple Podcasts

From the NHS front lines to health diplomacy and global consulting: How does a doctor navigate a non-linear career path, bridging East and West in health innovation?

In this episode, we speak with Dr Ruby Wang, a doctor and former Head of Health for China in the Foreign Office, now Director of Lintris – an award-winning consultancy bridging China and the West on health policy, biopharma, and medtech.

• 🏥 Why a fascination with surgery led to medicine, and how the realities of the NHS spurred a search for new challenges
• 🌍 Joining the Foreign Office during the pandemic and shaping UK-China health diplomacy
• 💡 Founding Lintris: How Dr Wang’s unique expertise became an award-winning consultancy
• ⚖️ Balancing clinical practice, consultancy work, and a non-linear career mindset
• 📚 The power of networks, continuous learning, and embracing serendipity in career pivots

Dr Wang’s journey is an inspiring exploration of cultural bridges, global health, and the courage to redefine professional purpose beyond traditional medical pathways.

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🎧 Listen on: ⁠Spotify⁠ | ⁠Apple Podcasts

What does it take to move from French to UK healthtech, found not one, but two pioneering healthtech companies, and innovate obstetric surgical practice within the NHS?

In this episode, we speak with Dr Benjamin de Viaris, a women's health consultant and healthtech entrepreneur with a career spanning both France and the UK. He is the co-founder of Cellen, a pioneering platform for personalised medicine, and Leva Clinic, one of the UK's first digital pain clinics.

• 🇫🇷🇬🇧 Navigating a medical career between France and the UK – and why one system is more efficient!
• 💡 From hackathons in Bethlehem to building a vibrant healthtech community in France and the UK
• 🚀 The journey of Cellen & Leva Clinic: how to build, scale, and exit healthtech businesses
• 🏥 Pioneering the HOPE section: bringing personalised obstetric surgical innovation to the NHS
• 🔑 Why maintaining clinical practice de-risks your entrepreneurial ventures

Benjamin's story is a fascinating insight into cross-cultural medical innovation, the realities of building and scaling healthtech solutions, and how to drive change within the NHS.

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🎧 Listen on: ⁠Spotify⁠ | ⁠Apple Podcasts

What happens when a junior doctor builds a SaaS business for the NHS before SaaS was even a thing?

In this episode, we sit down with Dr Henry Carleton — founder of Circadian and Four Eyes Insight, two healthcare software companies that changed the face of workforce and theatre productivity in the NHS. Both exited successfully, setting a blueprint for clinician-led innovation long before the health tech boom.

Henry’s story spans from sneaking off to France mid-med school to run a classified ads business, to bootstrapping one of the most widely adopted rota management tools in the UK — all without a single VC cheque.

• ✈️ The med student years: failing rotations while flying to Montpellier to run a print newspaper
• 🍷 Why his first wine business failed — and what it taught him about risk, contracts, and taste-testing the stock
• 🧠 Spotting an unsexy NHS workforce problem no one was solving — and turning it into a thriving SaaS business
• 💡 Bootstrapping to product-market fit without investors, incubators, or buzzwords
• 🧾 Navigating acquisition as a first-time founder and why he did it all again with business #2
• 🧭 His no-nonsense advice for clinicians thinking of leaving medicine or building in health tech

This is a masterclass in resilience, timing, and building what the NHS actually needs — long before it’s ready for it.

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From WHO internships to NHS executive leadership — with a startup in the mix.

In this episode, we speak with Dr Victoria Bakare, a GP whose career spans global health roles at the WHO, UN, and World Bank, a leadership position as Associate Medical Director at Kent Community NHS Foundation Trust, and the founding of Occuvia Health, a mission-driven occupational health company supporting charities and NGOs.

• 🌍 How a WHO internship opened the door to global health opportunities
• 🏥 What it takes to become a medical director early in your clinical career
• ⚙️ Why Victoria pivoted into occupational medicine — and found her true purpose there
• 🚀 The early stages of building Occuvia Health while balancing multiple roles and an MBA
• 🙏 How faith, flexibility, and bold decisions shaped a career across continents and sectors

Victoria’s journey is a masterclass in designing a meaningful, multi-dimensional career — on your own terms.

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🎧 Listen on your favourite platform:

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What happens when a junior doctor turns a single flat into 50 properties — and then builds a platform to fix the broken home-buying system?

In this episode, we speak with Dr Sayinthen Vivekanantham, a former NHS doctor who left clinical training to pursue property investing, eventually founding Homi, a fast-growing PropTech startup reshaping how real estate agents, solicitors, and buyers collaborate.

• 🏥 Why medicine felt like the wrong choice — and the creative frustration that sparked Say’s pivot
• 🧮 How he built a 50-property portfolio from scratch using spreadsheets, stress tests and grit
• 🧠 Lessons from failed startups and side projects in medical school
• 🔧 What inspired Homi and how Say bootstrapped it into a platform now powering 3,000+ transactions/month
• ⚖️ Balancing risk, regret, and building a scalable business — without losing your life to work

Say’s story is a deep dive into how to take calculated risks, trust your instincts, and design a career that fits you — not just your degree.

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▶ YouTube

🎧 Listen on:
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What drives a doctor to swap the wards for boardrooms—and end up leading healthcare strategy across the Middle East?

In this episode, we sit down with Dr Zahra Safarfashandi, now Partner at Carnall Farrar, to unpack her bold move from medicine into consulting and her rise to leadership on a global stage.

From overcoming family hesitations to pitching to hospital boards on day one, Zahra shares the lessons learned from choosing impact over tradition. She opens up about building a career in healthcare consulting, spearheading transformation in the GCC, and redefining success as a parent and leader.

We dive into:

• 💡 Breaking into consulting straight out of medical school
• 🌍 Taking healthcare transformation to the Middle East
• ⚖️ Balancing ambition with intention—and the reality of trade-offs
• 👩‍👦 How motherhood reshaped her definition of success

Zahra’s story is a must-listen for anyone curious about consulting, global healthcare, or carving out an authentic path beyond the clinic.

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🎧 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1ZbQCk6B9ongfOvKFCxIdx?si=1d5babf9bbca4e7a

🍎 Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/ie/podcast/out-of-programme/id1791647812

Dr Lucy Marples has had one of the most unconventional career journeys in medicine — starting in philosophy and health policy, before training as a doctor in her 30s, and then working at some of the UK’s biggest health tech companies.

In this episode we explore:

• 📚 Why she left health policy to retrain as a doctor

• 🏥 What it was like starting medical school a decade later than her peers

• 🚀 Lessons from scaling Babylon and Accurx at times of extreme growth

• 💡 Insights from her time at Google Health and Zoe

• 🔑 How she balances clinical work, startup roles, and advisory positions

Lucy also shares her advice for clinicians looking to explore portfolio careers and how to decide which opportunities are worth pursuing.

Follow us on:

🗞️ Substack: ⁠http://outofprogramme.com⁠

➡️ YouTube: ⁠@outofprogramme⁠

👨‍💻 LinkedIn: ⁠@outofprogramme⁠

🎧 Spotify: ⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/1ZbQCk6B9ongfOvKFCxIdx?si=1d5babf9bbca4e7a⁠

🍎 Apple Podcasts: ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/ie/podcast/out-of-programme/id1791647812

What does it take to leave anaesthetics behind and reimagine your career in the world of finance?

In this episode, we speak with Dr Ash Patel – an anaesthetist turned Managing Director at Houlihan Lokey. Ash shares his extraordinary journey from the wards of the NHS to the early founding days of Babylon Health, through venture capital at Mercia and Optum Ventures, and finally to investment banking.

We dive into:

💡 The serendipitous introduction that led him to join Babylon in its infancy

🚀 What it was like to help shape one of the UK’s most high-profile digital health startups

📈 How he broke into venture capital at a time when almost no doctors were in the field

💼 Why he pivoted again, this time into investment banking, and what he’s learned along the way

Ash’s story shows how curiosity, courage, and a willingness to embrace uncertainty can open doors to unexpected and rewarding career paths.

Follow us on:
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▶️ YouTube: @OutOfProgramme

🎧 Spotify: Listen here

🍎 Apple Podcasts: Listen here

What happens when a torn ligament becomes the turning point in your clinical career?

In this episode, we speak with Dr Alice McGee – a former obstetrics trainee who left traditional training behind to found Mara Health, advise global FemTech companies like Flow, and lead one of the fastest-growing communities for emerging health tech leaders, GXGN.

Alice opens up about the identity crisis that came with leaving medicine, how she cold-DM’d her way into consulting from her sofa in Aberdeen, and why tenacity, not connections, was her biggest asset.

We dive into:
💡 Rebuilding confidence after burnout and injury
🚺 Breaking into FemTech without a network
🏢 Starting Mara Health and finding your niche
🧠 Imposter syndrome, rejection therapy, and LinkedIn visibility
🌱 Launching the Your Next Move newsletter and chairing GXGN

If you're questioning the status quo or looking for your next move, Alice’s story is a blueprint in courage, community, and career reinvention.

—

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▶️ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@OutOfProgramme

What happens when you turn military medicine into a launchpad for tech innovation?

In this episode, we speak with Dr James Kuht – an RAF doctor whose career has taken him from flying with the Royal Air Force to advising the Prime Minister in No.10, teaching thousands of British military personnel how to code, and founding Pear, an AI skills platform now used worldwide.

We dive into:
✈️ Training as an RAF doctor and navigating an unconventional medical career
💻 Creating a viral AI upskilling programme that reached 5,000+ service members
🏛️ Founding the Downing Street data science team and shaping policy with data
📡 Leading innovation on the frontline as the first regiment Chief Technology Officer
🚀 The highs, lows, and pivots of building a successful AI startup

James’s story is a masterclass in spotting opportunities, taking calculated risks, and shaping a career at the cutting edge of medicine, military, and technology.

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🗞️ Substack: http://outofprogramme.com
▶️ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@OutOfProgramme
👨‍💻 LinkedIn: @outofprogramme

What do you do when the surgical dream no longer fits - and the music industry calls?

In this episode, we speak with Dr Azeem Alam, clinical radiology registrar and co-founder of BiteWorld - the company behind the highly acclaimed BiteLabs Fellowship, which helps clinicians transition into health tech careers.

From writing heartbreak ballads in his teens to working with Top 40 artists in LA, Azeem shares how his creative roots shaped an unconventional career path that now spans clinical training, entrepreneurship, and impact at scale.

We dive into:
🎸 The early music hustle - from cold emailing labels to LA studios
💻 Founding ByteWorld and training 1,000+ clinicians for roles in health tech
⚖️ Balancing radiology training with building a fast-growing startup
🏥 Why he walked away from academic surgical training (weeks before starting)
🧠 Navigating career guilt, community, and identity as a multi-hyphenate clinician

Azeem’s story is an honest and inspiring look at what happens when you step off the medical treadmill and start building something of your own.

—

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📺 YouTube: youtube.com/@OutOfProgramme

What does it take to walk away from anaesthetics and lead one of the world’s top healthcare communication networks?

In this episode, we speak with Dr Vernon Bainton—Chief Medical Officer at HavasLynx—about his unconventional journey from hospital medicine to global medical communications. Vernon shares how personal upheaval, health challenges, and an unexpected meeting with three entrepreneurial clinicians changed the trajectory of his career.

We dive into:
💡 Finding career clarity through serendipity, not a five-year plan
🚪 Leaving medicine and shedding the guilt that comes with it
🌍 Launching global health campaigns that reach millions
🎯 Building a vocation in communication, creativity, and strategic influence
🧠 Why transferable skills matter more than you think—and how to spot yours

This is a must-listen for any clinician contemplating a leap into the unknown.

Follow us on:
🗞️ Substack: outofprogramme.com
➡️ Youtube: @outofprogramme
🎧 Spotify: Listen here
🍎 Apple Podcasts: Listen here

What happens when you choose not to pursue residency after medical school?

In this episode, we speak with Elsa Varghese—a medical doctor who walked away from the traditional path to build a career at the cutting edge of digital health. From family pressure and financial worries to launching clinical games at Level X and leading teams at Snake Inc., Elsa shares how she transformed uncertainty into opportunity.

We dive into:
💡 Finding purpose beyond the ward
🎮 Building medical education games with Hollywood-style teams
🧠 Leading diverse teams as a medical director
🏥 Redefining success in a system that doesn’t make space for change

Elsa’s story is a must-listen for anyone questioning the status quo in clinical careers.

What does it take to be a paediatric surgeon and the driving force behind one of the NHS’s most groundbreaking innovation hubs?

In this episode, we sit down with Mr. Iain Hennessey, Consultant Paediatric Surgeon and Clinical Director of Innovation at Alder Hey Children’s Hospital. From a childhood spent in the mine rescue medical centre to founding the iconic Alder Hey Innovation Hub (aka the Batcave), Iain shares how he fused medicine, creativity, and technology to forge a truly unconventional clinical career.

Tune in to hear:

• How Iain’s engineering instincts and love of theatre shaped his surgical journey

• The origin story of the Alder Hey Innovation Hub and why 2014 was a tipping point for NHS innovation

• Honest reflections on risk, failure, and redefining clinical success

• Practical advice for doctors who want to explore innovation without leaving medicine behind

Whether you're a med student, clinician, or creative thinker at a crossroads, this episode is your invitation to imagine a different kind of future in healthcare.

From Imperial dropout to Cambridge medic to digital health leader — Dr. Anushka Patchava’s career has been anything but traditional.

In this candid and energising conversation, Anushka reflects on:

• The cultural and internal pressures that pushed her into medicine

• Why she left radiology (and what a night shift at King’s Hospital had to do with it)

• Her difficult but necessary leap into consulting and health insurance

• Building WellEx and why she walked away from it

• Her brutally honest journey with mental health — and how it led her to join a mental health startup

Anushka brings radical honesty, vulnerability, and wisdom to a conversation about identity, ambition, and the courage to start again — again and again. Whether you're contemplating a transition or simply curious about what life outside of clinical work looks like, this is an episode you won’t want to miss.

Follow us on:
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➡️ Youtube: @outofprogramme
👨‍💻 LinkedIn: @outofprogramme

Professor Sam Shah has worn more hats than most clinicians ever dream of — dentist, public health leader, NHS digital director, startup founder, and now lawyer. But none of it has been linear.

In this energising, no-holds-barred conversation, Sam reflects on:

• How being too curious almost got him thrown out of dental school — twice
• Why he challenged his deans and training programmes (and what he’d do differently now)
• The realities of navigating NHS hierarchy and its unwritten rules
• Why he left NHSX and how the politics shaped his next moves
• Startup life, burnout, and building resilience through lived experience
• How he juggles regulatory law, urgent care, board work, and still says yes too often!

🎧 A must-listen for anyone questioning the "right" way to build a career in healthcare.

Follow us on:

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➡️ Youtube: @outofprogramme

👨‍💻 LinkedIn: @outofprogramme

🚀 NEW PODCAST ALERT 🚀In this episode of the Out Of Programme podcast, Muhammad and Jing speak to Ms Liz Ashall-Payne, a former speech and language therapist (SALT) who is now the Chief Executive Officer of ORCHA! During this episode, Liz shares her journey from being a speech and language therapist to becoming the CEO of ORCHA, a leader in digital health. She discusses her early motivations, frustrations in clinical practice, and the emergence of digital health technologies. Liz reflects on her transition from clinician to entrepreneur, the challenges of identity in her career, and the importance of mentorship in navigating her professional growth. We go on to discuss the need for clarity in career goals and the value of learning from others. Finally, we chat to Liz as she reflects on her aspirations for ORCHA to make a global impact in healthcare and stresses the importance of aligning personal goals with professional ambitions.00:00Introduction to Ms. Liz Ashall-Payne01:09Journey into Speech and Language Therapy03:35Frustrations in Clinical Practice06:50The Emergence of Digital Health08:55Transitioning from Clinician to Entrepreneur12:54Navigating Identity and Career Changes15:41Taking the Leap into Consultancy19:38The Importance of Mentorship23:52Finding Clarity in Career Goals26:31Lessons from the Journey28:50The Role of Mentors in Professional Growth31:24The Importance of Learning and Mentorship33:19Transitioning from Consultancy to Entrepreneurship34:53Identifying Gaps in Digital Health39:23The Serendipitous Start of Orca41:54Navigating Challenges as a CEO45:08Leveraging Communication Skills in Leadership48:02Lessons Learned in Business55:54Future Aspirations and Global Impact01:01:13Defining Success and Life GoalsIf you want to see more content like this, make sure to subscribe and hit the notification bell to be informed of when we release every episode! Plus, make sure to sign up to our website to gain access to the episode transcript and exclusive access to resources shared by our guests!Till next time,Muhammad & Jing#OutOfProgramme #NewPodcast #HealthcareInnovation #medicalcareers Follow us on:➡️ Youtube: @outofprogramme 🐦 Twitter: @ooppodcast👨‍💻 LinkedIn: @outofprogramme🦋 BlueSky: @outofprogramme.bsky.social

🚀 NEW PODCAST ALERT 🚀 In this episode of the Out Of Programme podcast, Dr. Muhammad Khan interviews his co-host Dr. Jing Ouyang, ex-doctor and Co-Founder of Patchwork. During this episode, Jing shares his motivations for pursuing medicine, the challenges he faced during his studies, and how he transitioned into the world of business and innovation. He reflects on the importance of side projects, the impact of his fellowship experience in California, and the evolution of his role within Patchwork. The conversation also touches on the identity crisis many medical professionals face when leaving clinical practice and the trade-offs involved in pursuing a startup career. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Journey 03:11 Motivations and Pressures in Choosing Medicine 06:04 Transitioning to Medical School 09:00 Struggles and Identity Crisis in Medical Training 12:00 The Hustle Culture at Imperial 15:12 Exploring Digital Health and Entrepreneurship 17:54 The Role of Electives in Medical Education 21:02 Navigating Career Aspirations and Side Projects 31:59 Navigating the Academic Foundation Program 36:10 Balancing Clinical Duties and Research 39:21 Exploring Innovation in the Northwest 44:43 Taking a Leap: The Fellowship Experience 51:33 Building Patchwork: The Early Days 55:49 The Crossroads: F2 Year Decisions 58:26 Navigating Clinical Commitments with a Startup 01:00:30 Energizing Side Projects 01:02:10 The Leap to Full-Time Entrepreneurship 01:05:21 Parental Influence and Career Choices 01:08:45 Commitment to Patchwork 01:12:13 Transitioning from Medicine to Business 01:17:04 Trade-offs and Regrets 01:20:50 Future Aspirations and Role Changes 01:24:14 Book Recommendations and Closing Thoughts If you want to see more content like this, make sure to subscribe and hit the notification bell to be informed of when we release every episode! Plus, make sure to sign up to our website to gain access to the episode transcript and exclusive access to resources shared by our guests! Till next time, Muhammad & Jing #OutOfProgramme #NewPodcast #HealthcareInnovation #medicalcareers Follow us on: ➡️ Youtube: @outofprogramme 🐦 Twitter: @ooppodcast 👨‍💻 LinkedIn: @outofprogramme 🦋 BlueSky: @outofprogramme.bsky.social

In this episode of the Out Of Programme podcast, Dr. Jing Ouyang interviews his co-host, Dr. Muhammad Khan, a clinical radiology registrar based in the UK and co-founder of RadCast, a radiology educational platform and podcast that he bootstrapped whilst in radiology training. They discuss their long-standing friendship, the challenges faced during medical school, and his exploration of alternatives to traditional medical careers. During the episode, Muhammad discusses the significance of having a niche in business, the distinction between being an entrepreneur and a successful business person, and the difficulties in trying to balance clinical training with entrepreneurial ventures. If you want to see more content like this, make sure to subscribe and hit the notification bell to be informed of when we release every episode! Plus, make sure to sign up to our website to gain access to the episode transcript and exclusive access to resources shared by our guests! Till next time, Muhammad & Jing 🌍 Visit our website: www.outofprogramme.com #OutOfProgramme #NewPodcast #HealthcareInnovation #medicalcareers Follow us on: ➡️ Youtube: @outofprogramme 🐦 Twitter: @ooppodcast 👨‍💻 LinkedIn: @outofprogramme 🦋 BlueSky: @outofprogramme.bsky.social

🚀 NEW PODCAST ALERT 🚀 Ever wondered what lies beyond the traditional clinical path? Always thought of what else you could with your healthcare degree? Is the grass always greener? If you've ever had these type of questions, then you've come to the right place! Welcome to the Out Of Programme Podcast, hosted by Dr Jing Ouyang and Dr Muhammad Khan. As part of the Out Of Programme Podcast, we focus on the journeys of doctors and healthcare professionals who’ve ventured off the traditional, beaten path that is clinical medicine. In every episode, we aim to shine a spotlight on what else you can do with a healthcare degree. By doing so, we want to give you the tools and insight to help guide the decisions you make in your own clinical careers. So what are you waiting for? Subscribe and hit the notification bell to be informed of when we release every episode! Make sure to sign up to our website to gain access to the episode transcript and exclusive access to resources shared by our guests! Till next time, Muhammad & Jing 🌍 Visit our website: www.outofprogramme.com #OutOfProgramme #NewPodcast #HealthcareInnovation #medicalcareers Follow us on: ➡️ Youtube: @outofprogramme 🐦 Twitter: @ooppodcast 👨‍💻 LinkedIn: @outofprogramme 🦋 BlueSky: @outofprogramme.bsky.social