Explorez tous les épisodes du podcast On Theme: Design Systems in Depth
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| 2025 Predictions Recap with Noelle Lansford | 09 Feb 2026 | 00:41:21 | |
My very first minisode of the entire podcast was some 2025 predictions, and a lot has changed. (Honestly, what was I thinking trying to make predictions in the era of AI? fml) Noelle Lansford joined me for Season Two's official first episode to recap my 2025 predictions with me and look back on the trends and themes we saw in design-systems-land last year. Stay tuned for part two where we dive in to our 2026 predictions! | |||
| On Theme S1 Minisode 4: Converge conference 2025 Recap | 10 Nov 2025 | 00:30:05 | |
I'm back from Zeroheight's Converge conference in Bristol, UK, with my recap and thoughts. In this minisode, find out my three major themes from the event: reducing complexity, shifting towards code to design, and the narratives "framing our future". Resources & Links:
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| Hand off the API: a design & build workflow for components, with Jeff Pelletier — #10 | 24 Mar 2025 | 00:50:37 | |
Design systems aren’t just about components—they’re about how teams work together to build better UI. Jeff Pelletier, a frontend engineer with a design background, joins the show to talk about feature workflows for design systems, how design and engineering can work in parallel, and why documentation should be part of the process, not an afterthought. Jeff and Elyse dive into how to create API-first component specs, the challenge of design-code parity, and the ~drama~ of having a formal process. 💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!
🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28 | |||
| Bye Purple! A redesign powered by local & global design system layers at Spotify, with Smith Schwartz & Tyce Clee — #09 | 17 Mar 2025 | 00:56:13 | |
Spotify’s ad platform just got a serious glow-up, and Smith and Tyce are here to tell us how they pulled it off. Smith Schwartz, Product Design Manager, and Tyce Clee, Engineering Manager, walk us through the redesign of Spotify Ads Manager—why it was needed, how they used design systems to make it happen, and what it took to get buy-in. Smith and Tyce tell us about the shift from a playful UI to a more data-dense, enterprise-friendly experience, how their local design system worked alongside Spotify’s global Encore system, and why storytelling (not just metrics) is key to selling design system work internally. Plus, how a simple name like "Bye Purple" helped them drive alignment and make the redesign a company-wide priority. 💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!
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| What happens when your system can’t support your flagship product?, with Adriana Morales — #08 | 10 Mar 2025 | 00:57:12 | |
Adriana Morales from HEB (aka the best grocery store) poses a tricky question for the show: what happens when your design system can't support all your products, or your flagship product? Hashtag enterprise organization problems. Adriana and I explore some of the scenarios where this might occur, the "system of systems" concept, product team autonomy, and pace layers. Don't miss Adriana's explanation of her "ways of working" workshops and thoughts on creating empathy across your org. 💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!
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| I’m a design system consumer now: lessons from the other side, with Beau Ulrey — #07 | 03 Mar 2025 | 00:43:58 | |
I invited Beau to the podcast because of his great Medium articles on design systems... but he's not working on a system team right now! Beau shares his experiences on both sides of the—fence? aisle?—and the lessons he's taken away. We chat about the tradeoffs of building for speed vs stability, bringing new designs for AI products into the system, onboarding, cross-team empathy, and why we're always complaining about the other side. Plus, find out what Beau wanted to be when he grew up. 💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!
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| Building a multi-brand joint venture design system for BetMGM, with ToniAnn Drenckhahn — #06 | 24 Feb 2025 | 01:02:39 | |
ToniAnn joins the show to share her experience building a multi-brand design system for BetMGM and Entain's joint venture. This episode is our first project deep dive and it's full of legacy codebases, lessons learned, and big wins. ToniAnn talks to us about dealing with ambiguity, owning your decisions, and keeping leadership on board as you ship a system that changes the way your business works—and your partners businesses, too. 💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!
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| Stop waiting for permission! and other ways to show design systems value, with Brian Alfaro — #05 | 17 Feb 2025 | 00:42:58 | |
If the way we're building design systems has a fatal flaw, it's "waiting for enough investment to get it right." In this episode, Brian teaches us to not wait for permission and how your product teams' success is your success. Brian reminds us how important it is to remember that we're all on the same team, building the same product—and why internal politics and storytelling matters way more than components. Plus, why design systems are like toilets (not a Dad joke, I promise) and why Brian and I think "measuring the system is hard" is a beautiful thing.
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| All the things you shouldn’t do for design system success, with Dan Mall — #04 | 10 Feb 2025 | 00:54:25 | |
I'm thrilled to have the one and only Dan Mall on the show, and in this episode, we get deep into all the things you maybe don't want to do if you want your design system to be successful. Dan shares his experiences with failed design systems, one very failed attempt at pitching a system to leadership, why he thinks design systems should be specific not generic and maybe... not include foundations? Plus, we talk about useless documentation, what's next for systems, and THE spiciest take on tokens. (Honestly, there are so many 🌶️ Spicy Takes™️ in this episode, we might have to rename the show to Design System Spicy Takes!) 💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!
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| Layoffs, rebrands, and getting "zero results" from your design system, with Noelle Lansford — #03 | 03 Feb 2025 | 00:58:25 | |
You can't talk about design systems lately without addressing the elephant in the room: layoffs. Noelle walks us through her experience of multiple layoffs in one year, why 2023 was so different than 2020, and how the success criteria of design systems correlated with team layoffs. We discuss the bogeyman of "getting zero results from your design system" and what Noelle was hearing from business leadership about that, and how storytelling might matter more than metrics. Plus, a very spicy take on ~the rebrand~, and why at least one company was hiring for someone to delete their design system 😱
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| When Design Systems became A Thing with Jina Anne — #02 | 27 Jan 2025 | 00:54:50 | |
Jina Anne gives us a history of the journey from early style guides to widespread industry adoption of design systems, and the challenges and successes. We explore how tokens came to be, how it feels when the engineering team just starts using your work before it's ready, the separation of HTML/CSS/JS concerns, and how ClarityConf got started. Plus, the origin of the phrase "design systems" (maybe?), and what the NASA Graphic Standards Manual has to do with ClarityConf.
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| Efficiency, respect, and the origins of design systems with Brad Frost — #01 | 20 Jan 2025 | 00:43:32 | |
Brad Frost takes us back in time to the early days of design systems, and walks us through some of the significant moments of evolution from style guides to modern design systems. We dig in to the multiple proto-Storybook-esque projects, the original problem of sharing UI patterns, what React did, and Brad's personal moment of "oh, it's called design systems now." Plus, a bonus podcast throwback from the Style Guides Podcast feat. Dave Rupert and some early proto-Storybook madness.
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| On Theme S1 Minisode 3: This summer's AI vibe shift and conference news! | 21 Sep 2025 | 00:19:31 | |
Surprise minisode! In this quick episode, hear a few ways AI tools are useful for design systems now, my new favorite design-eng handoff tool, and three can't-miss industry events this fall. | |||
| On Theme S1 Minisode 2: 2025 Predictions | 06 Jan 2025 | 00:18:31 | |
Elyse shares five predictions for design systems in 2025 and beyond in the second pre-season minisode. Text the show to share your thoughts and predictions and maybe even be featured in a future minisode! | |||
| On Theme S1 Minisode 1 | 12 Dec 2024 | 00:13:36 | |
Are design systems in the trough of disillusionment? Elyse explores the past decade of design systems and what we're missing in this pre-season one minisode. | |||
| On Theme: The Trailer | 24 Oct 2024 | 00:02:17 | |
| Creativity and design system leadership in the age of AI, with Natalya Shelburne — #17 | 12 May 2025 | 00:58:34 | |
Chat, this is the last episode of season one! Thank you for listening and supporting the show! There's no better way to wrap up, IMO, than an optimistic and curious exploration of what it means to be a creative human in an increasingly technological world. So to wrap up season one, Natalya Shelburne joins me to explore how design leaders can cultivate creativity in an era of rapid technological and organizational change. Drawing from her degree and research in creativity, Natalya shares insights on fostering innovation, overcoming fear-driven management styles, and why embracing artistic thinking is essential for teams navigating the age of AI. She explains the importance of creating safe environments to unlock creative potential and why outdated corporate structures simply can't compete. Plus, flow state, goats, expansive thinking, and hobbies. Links & References
💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!
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| But "design systems as infrastructure" is boring, with Sam Anderson — #16 | 05 May 2025 | 00:47:38 | |
Y’all, I’ll be honest. Some days, I’m scared and nervous and uncomfortable with AI’s emergence, and implications, too. But I am also curiously optimistic, and more importantly — I don’t want to use any platform I have to spread even more fear and discontent and drama. So today you’re getting a dose of two things that I love: infrastructure and optimism. Drawing from his experience leading design systems at three very large orgs, Sam Anderson from Intuit shares how framing design systems as infrastructure can help them be recognized as essential to business success. He shares his vision for the importance of patterns as the next frontier of systems work, particularly in a rapidly changing tech landscape accelerated by AI, and we talk about what leadership conversations look like. Plus, Sam drops a spicy take that he believes AI won’t destroy design system jobs but make us even more valuable. Links & References
💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!
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| Naming is hard, but have you tried working with people? with Guy Segal — #15 | 28 Apr 2025 | 01:05:32 | |
Guy Segal joins Elyse to unpack the messy, complicated world of… people. Guy shares practical strategies from his experience at Thomson Reuters, including the powerful "pre-mortem" exercise he used to rebuild trust and alignment for the design system. They get vulnerable and unpack why (as cliche as it sounds!) genuine listening, storytelling, learning to give and receive feedback, and actively engaging with product teams, is so much more impactful than relying solely on processes or artifacts. Plus, Guy shares why he hated it at first when product teams started using the name of the design system. Links & References
💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com!
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| The Four Quadrants of Design System Impact, with Ben Callahan — #14 | 21 Apr 2025 | 01:13:10 | |
Ben Callahan joins Elyse for a fun conversation on creating impact with design systems. Ben shares insights from his consulting experience, discussing common pitfalls like organizations expecting a design system without adequately supporting their teams. They break down the "Four Quadrants of Design System Impact" framework, which breaks down tactical versus strategic work, helping teams avoid pitfalls like endless component creation. Plus, hear Ben’s predictions for the future of design systems Links & References
💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com! 🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28 | |||
| Shipping new ways of working to a classic organization with the One UPS system, with Marcela Rodriguez Joos — #13 | 14 Apr 2025 | 00:54:05 | |
Marcela Rodriguez Joos shares the story behind the One UPS project, a massive effort to modernize and unify UPS’ brand and digital experiences through a new design system. Marcela reveals how a “why does everything look different?” moment from their CEO was the catalyst for this ambitious effort, how they’re collaborating across a massive org, and successfully reducing development timelines from years down to months. Plus, Marcela’s team dishes out their design system spice takes! Links & References
💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com! 🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28 | |||
| The flaws of the “accessibility is built in to the design system” argument, with Daniel Henderson-Ede — #12 | 07 Apr 2025 | 00:38:40 | |
Ever had a team come to you after an a11y audit like, "but I used the design system, why does my product have accessibility defects??" Daniel Henderson-Ede, one of design systems' leading accessibility voices, joins me on the show today to unpack a spicy myth in design systems: that accessibility can be fully "built-in." Daniel walks us through the common pitfalls of overselling accessibility, how teams often mistakenly assume the system handles everything, and we explore the challenges and missteps of managing accessibility.
Links & References
💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com! 🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28 | |||
| Help, I'm starting a new design system job! with Amy Ogg — #11 | 31 Mar 2025 | 00:59:15 | |
This one’s a little bit different than some of the projects and topics that we've had on the podcast so far — we’re talking about starting a new role. I think it's one of the hardest things that we do sometimes as design system practitioners, because the design system is really about changing your organization, changing the way we build UI, and so there's a lot of weight on your shoulders when you come into a new role. Starting a new job as a design system practitioner can feel exciting and terrifying all at once—but Amy Ogg has some insights to help us navigate the emotional rollercoaster. Amy and Elyse chat about how to spend your first 30-60-90 days, building genuine trust, and why making big changes as a new hire can actually backfire. They commiserate over balancing the overwhelming backlog as a small team, and Amy shares why she thinks cross-training outside your expertise is a must. Plus, Amy shares how her experience as a barista shaped her approach to UX design ☕️ 💖 On Theme is a brand new podcast, so if you like what you're hearing, please hit subscribe and sign up at designsystemsontheme.com! Links & References
🎨🎟️ Into Design Systems is May 25-28 | |||
| Five 2026 Predictions for Design Systems with Noelle Lansford | 02 Mar 2026 | 00:54:45 | |
Noelle joins me again for some 2026 predictions trend encapsulations, and we try to unpack the absolute madness of the first two months of 2026. 1️⃣ Designing with code is in, making pictures of UIs is out. 2️⃣ The new critical deliverables for systems teams are design guidelines, agent rules, tokens, and semantic APIs. 3️⃣ We're gonna see a real focus on brand expression, but also on one-offs. 4️⃣ Design system teams, you do organizational behavior change. 5️⃣ The next chapter of the design system narrative is around quality rather than efficiency. Plus: the rise of the design engineer and a return to the early 2000s ways of working? I hope so!, nothingburger brands, and design systems gatekeeping. Season 2 of On Theme is officially here! 🎉 💖 If you like what you're hearing from On Theme, please hit subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. On Theme is sponsor free and listener supported, so please support the show with a monthly donation. | |||
| What comes after the infinite canvas? with Robin Cannon | 16 Mar 2026 | 00:55:03 | |
Y’all know I am fully bought in on design-with-code tools, so I loved this episode with Robin Cannon, VP of Product at Knapsack and former IBM Carbon and J.P. Morgan Salt design system exec, on why he thinks the infinite canvas is obsolete, and what we might replace it with. Robin chats with us about a future where software design happens in the same medium as production code, making the “infinite canvas” abstraction obsolete. But what does “designing with code” really look like today… and in the future? We explore a world with tools that could enable us to build with design-system rules plus broader product context. Plus we discuss why today’s design-with-code tools aren’t quite there yet, the enterprise barriers to working in new ways, and you as a designer can make this shift. Links & References
💖 Season 2 of On Theme is officially here! 🎉 💖 If you like what you're hearing from On Theme, hit subscribe in your favorite podcast platform and sign up to get episode release notes at designsystemsontheme.com! On Theme is sponsor free and listener supported, so please support the show with a monthly donation. | |||
| What to do with AI on your design system right now (and make a better way of working) | 30 Mar 2026 | 00:23:25 | |
There’s so much happening in the world of design systems: so much noise, so many new tools, and so much pressure. Where to start? Building on what I wrote on the Zeroheight blog, in this minisode I’m offering tactical suggestions for cutting through the noise. I cover the three areas you should be focusing on in your design system right now—MCPs, skills, and agents.md; how to get started designing with code; and defining design guidelines and semantic components—plus a detour into governance and ways of working. But the bit that’s occupying my brain space right now is that I believe that design system practitioners are uniquely positioned to help organizations change how they work with AI, because we own the layer that says: this is how you build UI and how design and engineering collaborate. Maybe the most important thing that you can be doing is thinking about how you can help your product teams think about what it means to build products today, and how we do it. Resources
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| Brand imagery & color swatches: lessons from building for e-comm, with Maya Hampton | 06 Apr 2026 | 00:54:46 | |
Maya draws on her experience as a design systems PM at both REI and lululemon to explore what makes ecommerce design systems distinct. From the component library decisions to supporting editorial flexibility and brand storytelling, this episode digs into the real differences between ecommerce systems and other product contexts — and what's driving non-tech companies to invest in designs systems now. Resources & Links | |||
| Design system quality has a business case now (and it's ... AI?), with Murphy Trueman | 27 Apr 2026 | 00:37:12 | |
Murphy Trueman joins me to dig into something most design system teams already know but haven't wanted to say out loud: your design system isn't ready for AI. Ambiguous tokens, undocumented rules, and a lack of parity that only works because experienced humans know how to use the system... we've been getting away with it for years. AI just made the bill come due. We discuss what it actually means to treat your design system like a semantic API, how to think about governance, and why the fixes AI demands are ones we probably should have made years ago. Plus, what it means to allow more roles (and LLMs) to build with the system, and and what teams can do right now to get their house in order. Resources & Links | |||