Marketing The Invisible – Détails, épisodes et analyse

Why you've got to check out today's episode:

• Discover the three essential pillars for building a successful business coaching practice.
• Learn how to transition from corporate life to coaching with a structured, relationship-driven approach that ensures authenticity and trust.
• Uncover the common mistakes aspiring business coaches make and how to avoid random acts of marketing to achieve consistent results.

Resources/Links:

• Want an overview of what done-for-you means to solve those three areas that you got to solve in coaching? Click here: businesscoachmastery.com

Summary:

Finding it hard to turn your business expertise into a profitable coaching practice? Many seasoned professionals feel overwhelmed by the lack of structure and direction needed to launch and sustain a successful coaching business. 

BJ O'Neal is featured in Forbes, also a founding partner with the renowned Maxwell Leadership team as a speaker, trainer, and coach. Today, he leads Business Coach Mastery, a network of nearly 70 coaches across the US. His passion is empowering people to build a profitable business coaching practice, allowing them to live life on their own terms. He provides a done-for-you approach, equipping them with the tools and support needed to succeed.

In this episode, BJ shares his proven “done-for-you” approach, emphasizing the importance of building systems for lead generation, client conversion, and coaching delivery, enabling you to achieve freedom and profitability on your own terms.

Check out these episode highlights:

02:13 - BJ's ideal Client: Ideal client for us would be men who are seasoned.

02:37 - The problem he helps them solve: They want to do it, but they don't know how to.

03:23 - Symptoms of his client's problem: The bigger portion of all this is that they want freedom.

04:58 - Mistakes client makes before reaching out to him: Just going out there and just trying it with zero process, zero structure, zero strategy to it.

05:59 - BJ's Valuable Free Action [VFA]: Build the three processes that's going to do everything in coaching: Where do I get leads and prospects? How do I convert those leads and prospects into ongoing high paying monthly clients? And then how do I coach them to get simplicity?

07:30 - His Valuable Free Resource [VFR]: Want an overview of what done-for-you means to solve those three areas that you got to solve in coaching? Click here: businesscoachmastery.com

08:01 - Q: Why does someone fail at business coaching? A: No systems, no process and no structure.

Tweetable Takeaways from this Episode:

"You have to have a structure that absolutely builds a relationship that matters, that you become the hunted. That's the goal." - BJ O'Neal

Why you've got to check out today's episode:

• Learn to break free from overwhelm to improve productivity and focus.
• Gain insights from diverse perspectives gained from an in-depth experience in corporate, sales, and marketing that ensures a well-rounded exploration of small business challenges.
• Get help navigating growth without feeling overwhelmed.

Resources/Links:

• Asking about what do I do first and how do I get there faster? Find the answer here: howtogettherefaster.com

Summary:

Are you feeling overwhelmed as a small business owner, constantly juggling tasks and struggling to make meaningful progress? This sense of being stuck—where productivity doesn’t translate into impactful results—can paralyze growth and leave you feeling lost in a sea of to-dos.

Sharyn and Hank Yuloff are small business coaches, authors of 8 best-selling business books, hold small business breakthrough boot camps several times a year and have hosted almost 400 episodes of their podcast, The Marketing Checklist View Cast. They focus on Marketing, Sales, Public Speaking and Human Resources: the four areas where most business owners say they struggle.

Listen now as they share practical strategies to break free from this cycle of overwhelm. By focusing on high-impact tasks, time-blocking, and aligning business efforts with personal life goals, they help business owners regain clarity, scale efficiently, and create a path toward sustainable success.

Check out these episode highlights:

• 02:56 - Hank and Sharyn's ideal client: People that are attracted to us are really good at what they do, but they do suffer from overwhelm and overthinking. 
• 03:28 - The problem that they help solve: Our areas of expertise are marketing, sales, human resources, public speaking, office systems, what are the things that get in their way of being able to make the sales and make the income that they want to make. 
• 05:11 - Symptom of their client's problem:  It really very much is, 'I'm not sure.'
• 06:46 - Mistakes clients commit before reaching out to them: They're not focused on who their ideal client is.
• 07:16 - Hank's Valuable Free Action [VFA]: You can't multitask folks, either time block or make a list and don't try and get two or three things done at once.
• 07:49 - Their Valuable Free Resource [VFR]: Asking about what do I do first and how do I get there faster? Find the answer here: howtogettherefaster.com
• 08:15 - Q: Why us? A: We came into this partnership, married, but we each had a background. Sharyn came from the corporate office, I came from sales and sales management and marketing and now we team up together. Quite often one of us can answer the question even if the other, even if I can't, Sharyn can.

Tweetable Takeaways from this Episode:

"Begin with the end in mind, and then you can work backwards." - Hank Yuloff

Why you've got to check out today's episode:

• Learn valuable insights on avoiding random acts of marketing and strategically link investments to business results. 
• Find out practical advice to help you enhance your marketing strategy and achieve better results.
• Understand the importance of a customer-centric approach to business growth.

Resources/Links:

• Fast track your business. Click here: visionedgemarketing.com

Summary:

Is it a challenge for you to connect marketing activities with real business outcomes? In a business landscape, random acts of marketing are wasted resources; finding a strategic approach is crucial.

Laura Patterson is the #1 Amazon Best-Selling author of Fast-Track Your Business: A Customer-Centric Approach to Accelerate Market Growth.

In this episode, Laura shares valuable insights on effective B2B marketing strategies. She emphasizes the importance of avoiding random acts of marketing and stresses the need for a strategic, customer-centric approach highlighting the significance of balancing customer value with business value for sustainable growth.

Check out these episode highlights:

• 01:14 - Laura's ideal client: We have served B2B customers and they want to be able to be very smart about how they grow organically.
• 02:12 - The problem she helps solve: We help them avoid what we call random acts.
• 03:35 - Symptoms to her client's problems: They have trouble telling their story because they have not done a good job of really thinking about their value proposition, positioning, messaging and how to differentiate themselves. 
• 05:10 - Mistake clients make before meeting Laura: Not having a strategy at all.
• 07:00 - Laura's Valuable Free Action [VFA]: The secret to doing that [link investments and activities to business results] well is to have what we call logic or metrics chains.
• 07:38 - Her Valuable Free Resource [VFR]: Check out this white paper and download for Free, 'Bring Your A-Game to a Customer Empowered Market.' Click here: visionedgemarketing.com
• 08:40 - Q: If you could give us one piece of advice to the C-Suite or the board of directors, what would it be? A: Be vigilant about maintaining the balance between creating customer value and creating business value. 

Tweetable Takeaways from this Episode:

"It's one thing to have a strategy but if you don't have the processes in place to execute, that can be a problem." - Laura Patterson



• Understand how legal services means actually better business leadership
• Discover the importance of legally protecting your business to avoid future stress and business hindrance
• Learn why you need to get organized and create a legal file for yourself

Resources/Links:

• Want to know more about everything legal you need in your business? Click here: legalwebsitewarrior.com/legalbasicsbootcamp

Summary

Have you been wanting to legally protect your business from potential copyright infringements?

Legally protecting your business leads you to become a better business leader– want to know how?

Heather Pearce Campbell is a warrior mama, nature lover, and dedicated attorney and legal coach for world-changing entrepreneurs. She is based in Seattle, Washington, and can be found online at www.legalwebsitewarrior.com.

Dive into the world of legal basics with Heather and learn what it means to legally protect your business and how it can help you become a better business leader.

Check out these episode highlights:

• 02:28 – Heather’s ideal client: My ideal clients, like we said in the intro, are world-changing entrepreneurs. I call them “information entrepreneurs”. They’re generally online experts, speakers, and authors.
• 03:05 – The problem she helps solve: So, a couple– the list of legal problems is long but going, you know, moving out, the bigger picture, typically, the largest problem people face is getting a legal understanding of their business, having what I call “the map”, right?
• 03:55 – The symptoms of the problem: Well, so one is they’re just not connecting with somebody who they feel understands their business from a legal perspective, that’s like an entry-level pain point. But the other pain points are they’re hiring.
• 05:39 – Clients’ common mistakes before consulting Heather: They will often attempt first a do-it-yourself approach, cobble a contract together, or borrow it from somebody else’s business when it’s not really a fit for them. The worst is going to Google and just taking whatever they find, which can often- yes, templates.
• 07:52 – Heather’s Valuable Free Action (VFA): A step in the right direction is to get yourself organized. Go gather up what you do have in place. So, for example, maybe you’ve got a client agreement in place for your standard client services.
• 09:01- Heather’s Valuable Free Resource (VFR): Want to know more about everything legal you need in your business? Click here: legalwebsitewarrior.com/legalbasicsbootcamp
• 09:33 – Q: What is it that I wish people knew about legal that they don’t? A: A couple of things. One is that it is synonymous with business leadership. I joke with people that I deliver legal services, but what I sneak in is actually better business leadership.

Tweetable Takeaways from this Episode:

“Get yourself organized. Go gather up what you do have in place.” -Heather Pearce CampbellClick To Tweet

Transcript (Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)

Tom Poland 00:10 Greetings, everyone, and a warm welcome to another edition of Marketing the Invisible. Today, I’m joined by Heather Pearce Campbell. Heather, a good day from Down Under. A warm welcome! Where are you hanging out?

Heather Pearce Campbell 00:21 Excellent! So good to see you, Tom. I am over in Seattle, Washington.

Tom Poland 00:26 The home of Oldham and North America’s greatest coffee. The scene and culture and innovations are quite extraordinary. So, for those of you who don’t know Heather, she’s warrior mama. And by golly, sometimes you have to be a warrior mama. How old are the little ones?

Heather Pearce Campbell 00:43 Yep, so I’ve got one who is four and about to turn five. And my nine-year-old just turned 10 a couple of days ago! So, we joke, we have a little person who’s already a decade in the house.

Tom Poland 00:55 Right, very cute ages, both of them, especially the four-year-old. So, in addition to being a warrior mama, she’s a nature lover. She’s a dedicated attorney and legal coach for world-changing entrepreneurs. She can be found on-site, on the website, I should say, Legalwebsitewarrior.com. Folks, really, really important subject. A lot of people, and I’m one of them, get hot and heavy about marketing because you got to make sure that your asset is protected. You may be doing all the right things. You might be being quite careful but there are some pretty malicious people out there because the north of the USA is hot and heavy about legal stuff. I’ll say a quick story. I was looking to franchise in the US and I went to see a franchise specialist in the US he sat me down in front of his desk and he was in the old days where you picked up the phone and talk to your receptionist, “Dolly, bring me in the phonebook.” And Dolly brought in the phonebook, the Yellow Pages. And he grabbed the Yellow Pages. And he had rifled through it and he held up the Yellow Pages. And the Yellow Pages were sort of you know, three inches thick, reading one section. He said the first thing you need to know is that’s the number of attorneys that want to sue your ass.

Heather Pearce Campbell 02:07 Nice visual demonstration, just in case you’re wondering.

Tom Poland 02:10 Welcome to America! Yeah, welcome to the minefield. And it’s true, you’ve got to have your legal. You’ve got to have your I’s dotted and your T’s crossed. Otherwise, you could be losing your shirt, all in all, work. So, let’s get on with the interview, “How to Legally Protect your Business.” Our seven minutes start now. Question number one, Heather, is, who’s your ideal client?

Heather Pearce Campbell 02:28 My ideal clients, like we said in the intro, are world-changing entrepreneurs. I call them “information entrepreneurs”. They’re generally online experts, speakers, and authors. They do all kinds of things in their business, you know. They’re podcasters, but they are largely dealing with information, right? Consultants and coaches. People whose entire business is developed around a body of work.

Tom Poland 02:52 And very appropriate that you’re on the Marketing the Invisible Podcast because what they have is not a physical product, but intellectual.

Heather Pearce Campbell 02:59 That’s right.

Tom Poland 02:59 So, tell us, question number two, six and a half minutes left, what’s the problem you solve for these world-changing entrepreneurs?

Heather Pearce Campbell 03:05 So, a couple– the list of legal problems is long but going, you know, moving out, the bigger picture, typically, the largest problem people face is getting a legal understanding of their business, having what I call “the map”, right? The legal roadmap to your business. People tend to cherry-pick their legal needs, like, “My business coach told me this”, or my friend in business told me this, but they’ve never sat down with somebody to get a comprehensive understanding top to bottom of their legal needs, so that they can, from a strategic perspective, prioritize what they need.

Tom Poland 03:41 Right. Thank you for that. What would you say are some of the typical symptoms that your ideal clients are experiencing before, but they’re sort of- what would give someone listening to this a bit of a heads up that they need to find out more about what you do? Five and a half minutes left.

Heather Pearce Campbell 03:55 Right? Well, so one is they’re just not connecting with somebody who they feel understands their business from a legal perspective, that’s like an entry-level pain point. But the other pain points are they’re hiring. They might be hiring internationally. They’ve got an online business, and they’re facing privacy issues. They have intellectual property issues; they’re concerned about launching a new course or program or they’re thinking maybe I need to get a trademark. They’re reaching into the US and I work with a lot of people internationally as well. So, they’re facing the whole sea of legal issues that you just referenced in that Yellow Pages book, right? They’re facing being in the marketplace. So, they generally have a host of legal things going on in their business, but one of those pain points is going to jump up and bite them.

Tom Poland 03:55 Are they in that sort of situation where they don’t know what they don’t know, but they know that they don’t know what they don’t know? If you like, it sort of says, you know. Because you’ve got intellectual property protection rights. You’ve got potential litigation for which they need some sort of legal professional identity or protection.

Heather Pearce Campbell 04:58 That’s right.

Tom Poland 04:58 Is the outgoing legal stuff to protect your intellectual property as well as the incoming?

Heather Pearce Campbell 05:03 It’s all of the above, right? And the ways that we grow our businesses through relationships, are all opportunities for things to go sideways.

Tom Poland 05:13 You’re right. Tell me about it! I mean, the thing is that folks, you can be as pure as the white-driven snow and as well-intentioned as Mother Teresa, and you can still get someone who wants to have a go at you. So, let’s just assume that people are aware that there are some legal issues that should be taken care of, what would you say, question four, are some of the common mistakes that people make when trying to resolve those?

Heather Pearce Campbell 05:39 Yeah. Totally. They will often attempt first like a do-it-yourself approach, cobble a contract together, borrow it from somebody else’s business when it’s not really a fit for them. The worst is going to Google and just taking whatever they find, which can often- yes, templates. But if they- the crazy part about the online world is you can often find yourself in a copyright infringement scenario, not thinking like, “Oh, yeah, legal work belongs to somebody.” So, I end up chasing down people all the time that have ripped information off of my client’s websites, right? So do not do any of those things!

Tom Poland 06:23 A sub-question, how much of you, and I’m stopping the clock here because I’m squeezing another question in. How much of your percentage of your time is chasing people who have infringed copyright? I mean, we have it all the time. People just blatantly copied our programs and courses and put them up on their websites.

Heather Pearce Campbell 06:38 You know, for once I enroll clients, especially clients that have good visibility in the marketplace, and truthfully, all my other clients, too, are on their way to good visibility, if they don’t have it already. I tell them, you just need to plan for this. This is the reality, unfortunately, of yes, it’s going to happen. It’s not really a matter of if, it’s a matter of when and it tends to be ongoing once you’ve reached certain levels of business.

Tom Poland 07:03 I would say we discover someone every week. We now have a system in place that once a month, we have to scan for our product names, and we find people-

Heather Pearce Campbell 07:11 That’s right.

Tom Poland 07:12 Yeah, and, folks, it’ll happen to you before you think that you’re highly visible. That’s the thing that I was surprised at. Okay, back on track. Thank you! Just under three minutes left. Question five, I know from painful experience, that people should not try to do this themselves. We’re coaches. We’re marketers. We are whatever we are, but we’re not legal people. And DIY is just a frickin disaster! You could actually create more problems than you’re trying to solve. So that said, that’s a big mistake. But we’re not suggesting people should do it themselves, but give us one valuable free action that someone could take to not solve the whole problem, but take them a step in the right direction.

Heather Pearce Campbell 07:52 Yes, a step in the right direction is to get yourself organized. Go gather up what you do have in place. So, for example, maybe you’ve got a client agreement in place for your standard client services. Maybe at some point, you did put a privacy policy from a template generator site on your website. Create a legal file for yourself and go gather up the resources that you have. This will help somebody like me do an audit for you very quickly, right? You’ve got your stuff altogether. And also, if you haven’t done this, like, Tom, I’m sure you’ve got a million pages all over the internet, Tom, between landing pages, sales pages, webinar funnel, like all the things. Make sure you have all of your online real estates because that is where our IP lives, most of us in the online space, documented in a spreadsheet tracked by page.

Tom Poland 08:01 Excellent idea! Pain in the butt, but just so important.

Heather Pearce Campbell 08:35 You will feel so good when you’ve done even just that initial step.

Tom Poland 08:52 Right. Okay. Thank you for that. 70 seconds left, two questions to go, and one valuable free resource. Where can people go to find out more about what you do?

Heather Pearce Campbell 09:01 Yes, legalwebsitewarrior.com/legalbasicsbootcamp. This is a free, really mini, bite-sized legal basics boot camp that will walk you through a framework that I created that will help you quickly understand your business from a legal perspective.

Tom Poland 09:18 So, folks, it’s www.legalwebsitewarrior.com/legalbasics, plural, bootcamp. Go get it! 40 seconds left, Heather. What’s the one question I should have asked you, but didn’t?

Heather Pearce Campbell 09:33 You know, what is it that I wish people knew about legal that they don’t? A couple of things. One is that it is synonymous with business leadership. I joke with people that I deliver legal services, but what I sneak in is actually better business leadership. It is about it- because the entrepreneurs that I serve, don’t have in-house counsel. They’re not Starbucks and Nike, but they need to be leading their businesses in a very specific way, right? The other thing is how you-

Tom Poland 10:04 Five seconds.

Heather Pearce Campbell 10:04 Okay, all wrapped up.

Tom Poland 10:06 Alright. Heather Pearce Campbell, thank you so much for your time.

Tom Poland 10:11 Thanks for checking out our Marketing The Invisible podcast. If you like what we’re doing here please head over to iTunes to subscribe, rate us, and leave us a review. It’s very much appreciated. And if you want to generate five fresh leads in just five hours then check out www.fivehourchallenge.com.



• Understand how you can still assure good quality and control with a high turnover and attrition
• Learn what is a business infrastructure and how it can make or break your business
• Know why specific tasks require specific people and not you

Resources/Links:

• Want to start your journey of scaling your business without the chaos? Click here: smoothoperator.courses

Summary

Do you want to find out how you can cater to more clients without the stress and chaos?

A business isn’t just a one-man job, so it doesn’t have to be all you! Having a solid structure and a loyal team is crucial to growing your business, but what happens if your company is unable to accommodate the high turnover?

Alicia Butler Pierre is the Founder and CEO of Equilibria, Inc. and the bestselling author of Behind the Facade, the world’s first published book on business infrastructure. She hosts the weekly Business Infrastructure podcast, which ranks in the world’s top 2%. She’s an adjunct instructor of Lean Principles at Purdue University and Operations Management at Nichols College. She is a chemical engineer turned entrepreneur. She has advised, designed, and optimized processes for organizations including Coca-Cola, Shell Oil, The Library of Congress, and The Home Depot.

Dive into how Alicia increases your company’s capacity to handle high turnover, sustain your business, and plan for higher scaling.

Check out these episode highlights:

• 03:34 – Alicia’s ideal client: The ideal client for us is small businesses with less than 50 employees that have more demand than they can currently handle. That’s the ideal client for us.
• 03:52 – The problem she helps solve: Scale, but sustainable scale. So, the problem that we are solving is unsustainable, chaotic growth. What happens when your company is the beneficiary of great marketing and great sales campaigns and strategies?
• 05:02 – The symptoms of the problem: One of the number one tell-tale signs or symptoms, Tom, is the loss of employees or their staff or team members, whatever you refer to them as. So very high attrition, high turnover, increase in customer complaints.
• 06:21 – Clients’ common mistakes before consulting Alicia: Honestly, Tom, because of the nature of the work that I do, the number one mistake, or I’m not even sure if it’s fair to call it a mistake. Because these business owners and entrepreneurs, don’t know what they don’t know.
• 08:34 – Alicia’s Valuable Free Action (VFA): Using things as simple as so you like that one-pager? Well, I have something even more impressive for you, Tom. Something as simple as using stick figures, and index cards.
• 10:53 – Alicia’s Valuable Free Resource (VFR): Want to start your journey of scaling your business without the chaos? Click here! Smoothoperator.courses
• 11:33 – Q: What is business infrastructure, Alicia? A: So, business infrastructure is simply a system for how you link your people, your processes, like, you know, and a process could just be in the form of a checklist. Your people, your processes, and any tools or technologies that you’re using.

Tweetable Takeaways from this Episode:

“Business infrastructure is simply a system for how you link your people, your processes, and any tools or technologies that you're using.” -Alicia Butler PierreClick To Tweet

Transcript (Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)

Tom Poland 00:10 Greetings, everyone, and a very warm welcome to another edition of Marketing the Invisible. I’m Tom Poland beaming out to you from the very sunny Sunshine Coast in Australia. I’m joined today by Alicia Butler Pierre. Alicia, good day from Down Under. Welcome, and where are you hanging out?

Alicia Butler Pierre 00:25 I am hanging out, Tom, in Atlanta, Georgia, which is in the south eastern part of the US.

Tom Poland 00:31 Used to be home to the Braves, what is it now?

Alicia Butler Pierre 00:34 It still is home to the Braves!

Tom Poland 00:35 It’s still home to the Braves.

Alicia Butler Pierre 00:37 Yes, it is. And home to Coca-Cola.

Tom Poland 00:41 Right. Oh, that was the Cleveland Browns or something like that. Anyway, Coca-Cola. Yay! I’ve been to Atlanta. It’s a big sprawling-

Alicia Butler Pierre 00:49 Oh, wow. You’ve been here? Yes, we’re growing by the day.

Tom Poland 00:54 You know, I can’t say I knew the city well. You know, I got a taxi to the conference and back and forth. On one of those visits, unfortunately, I didn’t get a chance to savor the highlights. But enough of where you live and where I live. Let’s get on to a very interesting subject. Folks, Alicia Butler Pierre is the founder and CEO of Equilibria. Now I stalked her around the internet, like for an hour yesterday. And my gosh, I’m impressed! Alicia has this, well, her thing is all about increasing your capacity without putting more stress on you and doing more in less time, becoming more efficient, becoming more effective, and getting more clients without compromising any quality. And she walks the talk. And not only is she process orientated, and figures out ways to do things more efficiently and more effectively, because you can do things more efficiently and stuff it up more effectively. She has this, I think quite extraordinary ability to shine the spotlight on her personality. And as I know she’s in the rumination just because but I’m still going to talk about it. So, wherever you find Alicia on the internet, you’ll see her personality shining through. So, she hasn’t templated her personality, it’s just the processes, right? I’m just knock-your-socks-off impressed.

Alicia Butler Pierre 02:12 I love that. I love it, Tom. Thank you!

Tom Poland 02:15 Yeah, and I know- we’re not doing an affiliate thing here, right? Alicia, you’re not paying any money to sell this?

Alicia Butler Pierre 02:20 No, I’m not. But I’m thinking maybe I should. Maybe I should. We should go on a world tour together.

Tom Poland 02:29 Yeah, no, I think you’re a star. And I think your star is in the center. So, let’s get going. Official bio, folks! Alicia is the bestselling author of “Behind the Facade”, which is the world’s first published book on business infrastructure. She hosts the weekly Business Infrastructure Podcast, which ranks in the world’s top 2%. She’s an adjunct instructor on Lean Principles at Purdue University, and Operations Management at Nichols College. She’s a chemical engineer, which means she’s got a hell of a brain on those shoulders, turned entrepreneur. She’s advised, designed, and optimized processes for organizations, including a few small businesses you may not have heard of, such as Coca-Cola, Shell Oil, The Library of Congress, and the Home Depot. Extraordinary! Alicia, thank you for being on the show. The title today, which we are going to hold your feet to the fire on delivering is, “How to Increase Your Company’s Capacity to Handle More Business Without Compromising Quality”. Our seven minutes start now. Question number one is who is your ideal client?

Alicia Butler Pierre 03:34 The ideal client for us is small businesses with less than 50 employees that have more demand than they can currently handle. That’s the ideal client for us.

Tom Poland 03:45 Right. And very well articulated. So, tell us about the problem you solve. I guess it’s something to do with scalability, is it?

Alicia Butler Pierre 03:52 Absolutely, of course! Scale, but sustainable scale. So, the problem that we are solving is unsustainable, chaotic growth. What happens when your company is the beneficiary of great marketing and great sales campaigns and strategies? Well, now you might have a different type of problem. You go from not having enough customers to maybe having too many. And that’s when you might need that operational or business infrastructure in place.

Tom Poland 04:19 You might! Yeah, never leave an entrepreneur in charge of their own idea unless you put the right people or processes in place, which is where you come in. So, question three has six minutes left. Question three, your target market is very growth orientated. You know, they’ve already achieved something pretty significant. It might be a mess, but they’ve got there through ideas and energy and vision and drive. What I’m saying is they’re going to be trying a bunch of things, but before we get to the mistakes they’ve made along the way, let’s talk about the symptoms that they’re going to be experiencing in their business. What’s happening? I mean, generally, there are going to be things falling through the cracks, but what else is going on in the business that would give them a heads up that they should be reaching out to someone like you?

Alicia Butler Pierre 05:02 Sure, absolutely. One of the number one, tell-tale signs or symptoms, Tom, is the loss of employees or their staff or team members, whatever you refer to them as. So very high attrition, high turnover, increase in customer complaints. So many things are happening at the same time. It’s very difficult to keep up. And without the processes that you were just referencing, it’s very easy for important tasks to fall through the cracks. There may not be any quality assurance, let alone quality control. There’s failed audit. A lot of businesses have to be audited, or they have to be accountable to some type of regulatory or some type of governing agency or entity. What if they fail those audits, again, increase in negative reviews? So those are some of the immediate tell-tale signs that you may want to start getting your business infrastructure in place.

Tom Poland 05:56 Yeah, that’s a pretty comprehensive list of pain, isn’t it, really? You’ve got this entrepreneur who’s achieved such extraordinary things, but is in danger of losing it unless they get their ducks in a row? So, what sort of mistakes do you see people making before they find your solution? We’ve got just over four minutes left. What are some of the big things that you notice that these clients have done before that before they start working with you, they think, “Wow, that was a big mistake”?

Alicia Butler Pierre 06:21 Honestly, Tom, because of the nature of the work that I do, the number one mistake, or I’m not even sure if it’s fair to call it a mistake. Because these business owners and entrepreneurs, don’t know what they don’t know. So, they don’t know to even ask for something or look for something like business infrastructure. There isn’t much exposure when it comes to operations, operational excellence, or operations management. They hear these things and what may happen for those who are savvy enough to even ask that question, or seek out that type of a resource, they’ll find one of two things, Tom. Either, one, the resources are usually reserved for much larger organizations, or maybe even manufacturing companies. And then secondly, that the people would be able to help them just don’t work with small businesses. So that’s why my company, we’re just on this quest to provide the resources and make it affordable, and accessible.

Tom Poland 06:21 Yeah, so, and do me a favor, hold up that little sheet of paper that I saw you waving around. Now, folks, for those listening to this, this is a template for interviews. And Alicia is pretty prepared for this interview by using this template. And the reason I’m asking- it’s just on one page, and all the questions are there.

Alicia Butler Pierre 07:40 Your name-

Tom Poland 07:41 My name and Leadsology, and so on? And the date.

Alicia Butler Pierre 07:44 But this is the other thing I do-

Tom Poland 07:46 Yeah?

Alicia Butler Pierre 07:46 Is your LinkedIn profile?

Tom Poland 07:49 My God, the reason I’m asking you to hold that up, Alicia, is and I’m just going to stop the clock here because I’m robbing you of some time. But I just wanted to impress upon people, not just that you’re walking the talk, but how simple a process can be. Because a lot of people think they’ve got to have some sort of SaaS, ERP platform, blah, blah, blah, or app thingy. And it can sometimes be efficiency, and effectiveness. It can be something as simple as one sheet of paper. So, I just want to do to reinforce that point. And I’m going to start the clock again.

Alicia Butler Pierre 08:22 Okay.

Tom Poland 08:23 Now, two and a half minutes left, what’s one valuable free action that you would say an audience member could take? It’s not going to solve the whole problem, but it might just start them heading off in the right direction.

Alicia Butler Pierre 08:34 Using things as simple as so you like that one-pager? Well, I have something even more impressive for you, Tom. Something as simple as using stick figures, and index cards. These two tools alone, these very low budget, low tech, analog type tools can do you a world of good in figuring out what work you need to perform, how that work is organized, and who ideally should perform the different types of work that you identify, and how is that work performed?

Tom Poland 09:07 My God, I’m loving this!

Alicia Butler Pierre 09:08 So, stick figures and index cards.

Tom Poland 09:10 The index card was A2 one, another one was C1 on this little stick figure like you see, you know, how you describe that. Just, oh, I don’t know, it’s maybe six inches or it’s got the label on the front. And you got CEO on it, right?

Alicia Butler Pierre 09:22 That’s right. And this is laminated. So, this is another product that my company offers to our clients. And the reason it’s laminated is that in the process of trying to figure out well, who ideally should perform task C1? Well, the CEO or the founder may say, “Well, it’s me! I do that.” But, Tom, is that person really the right person to perform that task? Should it really be an office manager, for example, should be the ideal person to perform that task? So again, something as low-tech as these stick figures and index cards. I have done, this exercise with so many companies at this point, and every single time it really brings to life what’s going on in the company.

Tom Poland 10:07 You’re the only person on earth that I’ve had to stop the clock twice more. Folks, so this works for entrepreneurs. I call them dogs. Dogs are tactile. They’re visceral. They feel things. They see things. They’re not so good at five-year cash flow spreadsheets, but the little, I can just imagine you holding those up or even someone with a clear kitchen table, putting those down, everything would get crystal clear all of a sudden. And you often don’t get that with software. So, folks, if you’re listening to this, you got to head over to our Leadsology.guru website. Have a look at the podcast and find this podcast so you can see what Alicia just showed. So yeah, so let’s head on. 90 seconds left. Question six, a valuable free resource, where can people go to find out more about this?

Alicia Butler Pierre 10:53 If you want to find out how to use tools like stick figures and index cards and so much more? Check out a free audio masterclass where you can learn exactly how to use those types of tools to answer those four questions that Tom and I just reviewed. And the best place to go is smoothoperator.courses. Smoothoperator.courses.

Tom Poland 11:15 And that was named after your nickname, was it? Smoothoperator.courses. Alright, so let’s- thank you for that. Smoothoperator.courses, folks. So, let’s go to question seven, 50 seconds left, what’s the one question I should have asked you but didn’t?

Alicia Butler Pierre 11:33 What is business infrastructure, Alicia?

Tom Poland 11:35 What the heck is it, Alicia?

Alicia Butler Pierre 11:38 What is it? So, business infrastructure is simply a system for how you link your people, your processes, like, you know, and a process could just be in the form of a checklist. Your people, your processes, and any tools or technologies that you’re using. How do those three things link together in a cohesive system such that you can scale in a sustainable, profitable, and repeatable way? It’s literally laying the foundation to support sustainable growth and ultimately scale.

Tom Poland 12:13 Alicia, Thank you so much.

Alicia Butler Pierre 12:16 We did it! And I hit the seven minutes.

Tom Poland 12:20 Thanks for checking out our Marketing The Invisible podcast. If you like what we’re doing here please head over to iTunes to subscribe, rate us, and leave us a review. It’s very much appreciated. And if you want to generate five fresh leads in just five hours then check out www.fivehourchallenge.com.



• Learn why setting up a framework is crucial to your sales and marketing conversations
• Understand why rushing into tactics before figuring out a marketing strategy is the biggest mistake you can make
• Find out the difference between social selling and social engagement

Resources/Links:

• Want more free tips and tricks on how to get that sales strategy that fits you? Click here: Savvysalesstrategy.com/15steps

Summary

Have you tried everything but nothing’s working to keep your business out of that plateau?

You can’t just dive into sales mode and skip marketing. Having a good marketing strategy gives a good foundation for your business to become high selling even in times that you feel like you’re stuck in a plateau.

Abigail May Tiefenthaler is a Co-Founder of Savvy Sales Strategy, a marketing and sales agency that works with professional coaches who want 6-figure years and need implementation with impact to stay focused and on a path to success. Her team is client-getting specialists that create client-getting systems to support coaches with their high-ticket offers.

Get an over-the-shoulder experience on how Abigail helps her clients overcome sudden career shifts from providing service to having a business through tactical planning and understanding their platform.

Check out these episode highlights:

• 01:42 – Abigail’s ideal client: Coaches, service-based professionals, consultants.
• 01:50 – The problem she helps solve: We solve the problem of identifying what’s missing in their marketing that’s making it ineffective. Where are they struggling?
• 03:04 – The symptoms of the problem: They want to have a business. They don’t want to just be a coach and sell services. So, they want to have a business. They want to make an impact.
• 04:05 – Clients’ common mistakes before consulting Abigail: The biggest mistake every small business owner, they go from idea to selling and skip all the strategy steps. They skip the tactical, you know, the tactical planning, and they go right from, “Well, I’m going to do this or I’m going to do that.”
• 06:27 – Abigail’s Valuable Free Action (VFA): Go spend some time really thinking about where you want to go, where you are now, and how you’re going to get there. That will give you your vision and your mission, then go start thinking about where your client is now and where you want the client to go or where the client wants to go and what they need to get there.
• 06:57 – Abigail’s Valuable Free Resource (VFR): Want more free tips and tricks on how to get that sales strategy that fits you? Click here: Savvysalesstrategy.com/15steps
• 07:27 – Q: How do I use social media to actually sell effectively? A: It’s the understanding that there is a difference between social engagement and social selling. We focus on social selling.

Tweetable Takeaways from this Episode:

“Marketing creates better selling.” -Abigail TiefenthalerClick To Tweet

Transcript (Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)

Tom Poland 00:10 Greetings, everyone, and a very warm welcome to another edition of Marketing the Invisible. I’m Tom Poland beaming out to you from the Sunshine Coast in Australia, joined today by Abigail May Tiefenthaler. Abigail, a warm good day from Down Under. Where are you hanging out?

Abigail Tiefenthaler 00:24 I’m hanging out in East Tennessee, USA.

Tom Poland 00:28 East Tennessee, USA, fantastic! Probably couldn’t get any further apart than where you are-

Abigail Tiefenthaler 00:34 Probably not.

Tom Poland 00:35 Hands across the water joined in marketing purposes. Folks, sprinkling to Abigail’s bio. She’s the Co-Founder of Savvy Sales Strategy. It’s a marketing and sales agency that works with professional coaches who want to enjoy a six- and I would imagine, sometimes, even, a seven-figure income, but they need implementation. They need implementation of the systems that are going to give them the impact and keep them focused on the path to success. Her team is client-getting specialists. They have done four-year services. They create client-getting and have predictability around the systems which I believe is Abigail’s specialty, and the target market is the coaches who sell high-ticket offers. Now if you’re a coach selling a high-ticket offer, but if you’re someone like a consultant, you’re going to get a lot of value from this as well, so listen up! Abigail, our title is, “How to Get Clients When Nothing Else Has Worked So Far”. There are a lot of people that are going to be able to relate to that. Several questions start now. Out time starts now, I should say. Number one, question one, who’s your ideal client?

Abigail Tiefenthaler 01:42 Coaches, service-based professionals, consultants.

Tom Poland 01:46 Perfect. Thank you. And tell us, question number two, what’s the problem you solve for them?

Abigail Tiefenthaler 01:50 We solve the problem of identifying what’s missing in their marketing that’s making it ineffective. Where are they struggling? We focus on the area of social selling, but Tommy and I have 40 plus years of marketing experience each, so yes, we are that old, it allows us to look at the foundational and strategic aspects of what marketing should be doing, and then identify the right way to promote your coaching business or consulting business.

Tom Poland 02:21 Fantastic. So, you and I were pre-internet. It’s hard to believe, isn’t it, for some people that-

Abigail Tiefenthaler 02:26 Well, and on top of that I grew up in the industry. So, I truly come to marketing as you know, as a child. My dad was a madman, my mother had a home-based business that was tied to the marketing field. So, there was a lot of conversation.

Tom Poland 02:40 It’s in the genes! And I-

Abigail Tiefenthaler 02:42 It’s in the genes!

Tom Poland 02:43 I often think learning those disciplines of marketing, pre-internet, is actually a big advantage when you understand both worlds. So, tell us, question three, five and a half minutes left. What would you say are some of the typical symptoms of the coaches, consultants, and so on who would really benefit from working with you? What’s going on in their business or life that would give them a heads up, and go, “Oh my God. I’ve got those symptoms!”

Abigail Tiefenthaler 03:04 They want to have a business. They don’t want to just be a coach and sell services. So, they want to have a business. They want to make an impact. And the challenge they’ve had is they’ve gone from course to coaching to something, you know, buying the next this or the greatest that. But they don’t really know how to weave them all together. And because they don’t know what they don’t know, and let’s face it, even today’s marketers, many don’t know what they don’t know, it’s incomplete and it’s ineffective. It’s like broken, you know, links in the fence?

Tom Poland 03:37 Yes, they’re probably feeling like they’re that world’s best-kept secret. They’ve got terrific value delivery or great client work. But their marketing seems flawed for years. So, question four, and just under five minutes left. We’re talking about growth-orientated people, like you said that they don’t just want to be coaching, you know, be a single coach, they want a business. They’re growth orientated. They know their market is not working, and they’re going to try stuff. What would you say are some of the common mistakes that your ideal clients have made before they find your solution?

Abigail Tiefenthaler 04:05 The biggest mistake every small business owner, they go from idea to selling and skip all the strategy steps. They skip the tactical, you know, the tactical planning, and they go right from, “Well, I’m going to do this or I’m going to do that.” And so that strategy is where they hone their message. That strategy is where they identify their real audience. So, by missing those critical steps, you’re like lugging 1000 pounds on your back as you’re trying to go uphill. It’s just not a practical way. Some will get some short-term success because they’ve got a good warm market. But after that, that means they’re in sales mode. That doesn’t mean they ever get into marketing mode. Marketing creates better selling. So, if you don’t like selling, that’s another benefit. You want to really focus on having your marketing bring qualified customers to your sales conversations.

Tom Poland 05:02 Right. Selling is what you have to do when your marketing sucks.

Abigail Tiefenthaler 05:06 Yeah. Exactly!

Tom Poland 05:08 But the way you put it was better because you know, if you do your marketing right, the selling is easier. It kind of sets the stage, right? So, the biggest mistake is rushing into tactics, doing a whole lot of marketing before you figured out the strategy. And I think one of the things you said is you got to figure out the marketing message and whether it’s going to get cut through and motivate people before you start, for example, running ads.

Abigail Tiefenthaler 05:29 Exactly, or doing anything– getting on stages, trying to get on stages when you don’t have a message. I will say the last thing, especially in the coaching world, is they don’t have their offer really fleshed out. Even if they want to work with one-on-one clients is that they know what they want to do, but they haven’t really put a framework together. And you don’t need a 10-step process or anything like that. But you need to have a framework because a framework is going to bring confidence to the sales conversation. It’s going to give you purpose in the marketing conversations.

Tom Poland 06:01 There is so much powerful psychology in there and in unpacking that, so that would be worth listening to again, folks. If you’ve got clarity, it gets you around how you’re going to go to the value. It gives you confidence in your marketing. That’s a great top tip in itself. Question five, I might have triggered that prematurely. But I’m after one valuable free action here. Two minutes left. A top tip that people could- it’s not going to solve the whole problem, but it might get them started.

Abigail Tiefenthaler 06:27 Go spend some time really thinking about where you want to go, where you are now, and how you’re going to get there. That will give you your vision and your mission, then go start thinking about where your client is now and where you want the client to go or where the client wants to go and what they need to get there.

Tom Poland 06:46 Terrific! Thank you for that. Question six, valuable free results. We’ve got a URL, I believe, where people can go and find out more. What is the URL?

Abigail Tiefenthaler 06:57 It’s savvysalesstrategy.com/15steps. Savvysalesstrategy.com/15 steps!

Tom Poland 07:07 With a “.com” right in the middle. So savvysalesstrategy.com/15steps. And, people, you’re going to get a lot of information there about lead generation, about marketing about getting your strategy right. Abigail, thank you for that. The last question and we’ve got 45 seconds left. What’s the one question I should have asked you, but didn’t?

Abigail Tiefenthaler 07:27 How do I use social media to actually sell effectively?

Tom Poland 07:32 Oh, I would love the answer to that!

Abigail Tiefenthaler 07:34 It’s the understanding that there is a difference between social engagement and social selling. We focus on social selling. Social selling is designed to bring people into an appointment to talk about doing business, an event, another place, a private Facebook group, or something. So, people don’t understand the difference between social engagement and social selling.

Tom Poland 07:59 Perfect. Abigail, thank you so much for your time and your insights. Folks, savvysalesstrategy.com/15steps. Thanks, Abigail!

Abigail Tiefenthaler 08:08 You’re welcome.

Tom Poland 08:10 Thanks for checking out our Marketing The Invisible podcast. If you like what we’re doing here please head over to iTunes to subscribe, rate us, and leave us a review. It’s very much appreciated. And if you want to generate five fresh leads in just five hours then check out www.fivehourchallenge.com.



• Discover how publishing a book online can vastly increase your sales and get you leads
• Understand why you should consistently put a valuable free offer in your books
• Learn what is Amazon optimization and how it can be a big help for your Amazon listings and sales

Resources/Links:

• To get more FREE advice on what you need to do as a first-time author, click here: geoffaffleck.com/ebook

Summary

Are you planning on publishing a book, but don’t know how to start? Or maybe you’ve already done it but wonder why it’s not selling the way you want it to.

Publishing a book is a great way to put yourself out there, sell yourself and your product, and increase your leads and sales. But how can you maximize the potential of your book, especially online in the busy and bustling marketplace?

Geoff Affleck has helped hundreds of authors to publish, launch and promote #1 bestselling books ranging from Kindle eBooks to New York Times bestsellers.

Listen in to Geoff and find out what are the things you should be doing and you should be avoiding as a first-time author in a busy online marketplace, like Amazon, and get your sales sky high!

Check out these episode highlights:

• 01:33 – Geoff’s ideal client: My ideal client is someone who’s a thought leader, professional, basically an expert. They may have already published self-help, how-to business, health, relationships, and spirituality book, or planning to publish one in the next 12 months.
• 02:07 – The problem he helps solve: I would say there are two. There’s the problem of publishing the book. So how do I strategically publish it? How do I successfully publish a nonfiction book? And the other would be how to sell copies.
• 03:16 – The symptoms of the problem: That would be one of them. So, one of them is that their sales have stalled, maybe they never took off in the first place. And so, therefore, you know, the book is not doing what it was designed to do, which was to build its credibility, build its brand, bring in new leads, and clients.
• 05:22 – Clients’ common mistakes before consulting Geoff: Well, the first thing is that they often have published the book themselves, which is highly recommended, but they didn’t know what they were doing. Why would they? It’s their first time publishing a book, how would you know?
• 07:05 – Geoff’s Valuable Free Action (VFA): I would say what that would be is to make sure that inside your book, right after the copyright page, you have a separate page with a valuable free offer on that page. You know, a headline or a quick description, a picture of it, whatever it is, and then a link to your landing page right inside your book.
• 07:30 – Geoff’s Valuable Free Resource (VFR): To get more FREE advice on what you need to do as a first-time author, click here: geoffaffleck.com/ebook
• 07:50 – A: We’ve kind of alluded to it, but I want to be specific. If someone has a book that’s not selling, figure out why it’s not selling. And then fix it.

Tweetable Takeaways from this Episode:

“If someone has a book that's not selling, figure out why it's not selling. And then fix it.” -Geoff AffleckClick To Tweet

Transcript (Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)

Tom Poland 00:10 Greetings, everyone, and a very warm welcome to another edition of Marketing the Invisible. I am Tom Poland beaming out to you from the Sunshine Coast in Australia joined today by another Australian but not in Australia. Geoff Affleck, a very warm g’day from Down Under. Sir, where are you hanging out?

Geoff Affleck 00:25 Good day, Tom. Yes, I’m hanging out on Vancouver Island, British Columbia where I’ve lived for about the last half of my life, but formerly Melbourne.

Tom Poland 00:33 For what, 15 years?

Geoff Affleck 00:35 Yeah, that’s right! 15 years.

Tom Poland 00:36 And where did you hang out from originally?

Geoff Affleck 00:39 Melbourne.

Tom Poland 00:40 Everyone’s going to want to know the most important question in the whole interview is why did you go to Vancouver Island?

Geoff Affleck 00:45 Skiing, and, of course, there was a girl.

Tom Poland 00:49 Bet there was. Okay, so thank you for that. A little bit of background, folks. Other information you didn’t know about Geoff. He’s helped, literally, hundreds of authors to publish, launch and promote the part most people forget about. He’s the number one bestseller ranging from Kindle eBooks to New York Times bestsellers. And as we all know, books are one of the biggest credibility builders and door openers in the world of Marketing the Invisible, so I can’t wait. So, let’s get rock and roll! How to Increase Sales of Your Self Help or How-to Book on Amazon. Geoff, our time starts now. Sir, question number one, who is your ideal client?

Geoff Affleck 01:33 So, my ideal client is someone who’s a thought leader, professional, basically an expert. They may have already published self-help, how-to business, health, relationships, and spirituality book, or planning to publish one in the next 12 months. And they understand that a successful book is a really important tool for positioning themselves as an expert in generating new leads and clients.

Tom Poland 01:58 Perfect! And question number two, therefore, six and a half minutes left. Tell us about the problem you solve. I suspect it has something to do with getting the book sold.

Geoff Affleck 02:07 Yeah. So, I would say there are two. There’s the problem of publishing the book. So how do I strategically publish it? How do I successfully publish a nonfiction book? And the other would be how to sell copies. And one of the things I find that I canceled for people is, how do you revive a book that is not selling?

Tom Poland 02:25 Oh, interesting. I’ve got half a bookshelf for those. Because a lot of- folks, you know, I know when I did my first book. You know, you’re going to get into the book shops, and they’ll be there at the airport. And you know, people will be stopping me in the streets asking for autographs and so on. And it just doesn’t happen, then I picked up very quickly, is there a link between how and where you publish? And how easy it is to market the book later?

Geoff Affleck 02:52 Not necessarily. I think, you know, most people are all in the same places except maybe you’re not in book shops if you haven’t gone through a traditional publisher. Most people are buying their books on Amazon.

Tom Poland 03:05 Yeah. Okay. Thank you for that clarification. So, tell me, question number three is what are the symptoms that people are experiencing with this problem you help with? Tell us the symptoms. And I guess the simple symptom is the books aren’t selling, right?

Geoff Affleck 03:16 That would be one of them. So, one of them is that their sales have stalled, maybe they never took off in the first place. And so, therefore, you know, the book is not doing what it was designed to do, which was to build its credibility, build its brand, bring in new leads, and clients. It might even be hurting their image if you go to Amazon and you see that the book only got three reviews and is right next to the 2 million on the best seller list. The other symptom would be is if they have not published. You know, they probably, these folks, you know, you know that you should publish a book to build your credibility. But perhaps the problem is that you feel overwhelmed and maybe confused about how you do it. And how do you produce it? How do you publish it? How do you launch, and promote it? And how do you leverage it? And so, you might be feeling a symptom like your business isn’t growing the way it might, and perhaps the book, not having a book to be the problem that we need to address.

Tom Poland 04:10 So, there are two issues, really, that you’re addressing. One is that folks that have a look inside them, and then they don’t know, then they need to get out. But then- how to do that. But the other very interesting one, which I imagine, is a bit of a specialty is the book is already out there but is simply not selling. Very quickly, which is the easiest one for you to work with? I presume it’s the ones that are starting from scratch.

Geoff Affleck 04:31 Yeah, well, the one starting from scratch, you know, we’ve got a process to go through, right? So, it’s a fairly manageable process because everything at this point is within our control, so we can plan accordingly. We can avoid the mistakes that a lot of self-published authors and traditionally published authors make and do things right in the first place. And then six months out or 12 months, we’ve got the book published and launched and set it up for success. To turn around a book that’s not selling depends on why it’s not selling. And there’s often some corrective action that we have to take in order to fix those issues.

Tom Poland 05:07 They’re still manageable. So, you mentioned mistakes, three minutes left. Question four, what would you say are some of the common mistakes? And maybe, yeah, let’s- that people make. The book’s not selling, so they’re going to do stuff. What are some of the big mistakes that people make?

Geoff Affleck 05:22 Well, the first thing is that they often have published the book themselves, which is highly recommended, but they didn’t know what they were doing. Why would they? It’s their first time publishing a book, how would you know? So, there are mistakes that are made, without even being aware of it. That’s something that I do specialize in. It’s a process called Amazon optimization, where we take your Amazon listing, and look at what’s going on. And we see, well, why aren’t people a.) discovering your book, b.) clicking and looking at it? And if they are clicking and looking at it, why aren’t they buying it? So, there’s, you know, there’s the see-click-buy, and we have to diagnose what’s the problem. So, it could be a mistake in the cover design. It could be a mistake in the title. Maybe there are no good keywords in the subtitle, so the search engine can’t pull it up because it doesn’t know it exists. So, we’ve got those issues to deal with. So that’s just, you know, inadvertent mistakes because they self-published. And then we have the problem- sorry, go ahead. One more quick thing. People, those folks who are thinking of publishing, often waste a lot of time trying to get a traditional publisher to take their book on. And what they should be doing is building their platform, rather than wasting time getting rejected by publishers who are looking to see if they’ve got a big email list, if they’ve got a platform. They’re not going to bite, they don’t care about your book, they just care where you’re going to sell them.

Tom Poland 06:45 And very often, well, you’ve alluded to it already. But when you do, if you do get a publisher and they go, “Okay, then good. Thanks, Tom. How are you going to market it?” “Well, I thought you were going to publish it?” “No, we just send books out”. So, real quick, because we’ve got 60 seconds left. A couple of questions still to go. A top tip, please, real quick. 10 seconds.

Geoff Affleck 07:05 A top tip? I would say what that would be is to make sure that inside your book, right after the copyright page, you have a separate page with a valuable free offer on that page. You know, a headline or a quick description, a picture of it, whatever it is, and then a link to your landing page right inside your book. And then you repeat that through the book.

Tom Poland 07:30 Through the book, thank you, because that’s going to get traffic back to your website. It’s going to get you, email subscribers. You can then- a valuable free resource folk is geoffaffleck, that’s G-E-O-F-F, Affleck, as in Ben, .com/ebook. Go get it! Question seven, sir, is one question I should have asked you, but didn’t. We have 10 seconds left.

Geoff Affleck 07:50 We’ve kind of alluded to it, but I want to be specific. If someone has a book that’s not selling, figure out why it’s not selling. And then fix it.

Tom Poland 08:01 Thanks so much for your time.

Geoff Affleck 08:02 Hey, welcome. This is fun. Thanks, Tom.

Tom Poland 08:05 Hey, everyone, it’s Tom here again. Hey, just quickly, I kind of cut Geoff off a bit there. And it was my bad because I asked him a couple of extra questions. So, I just wanted to give him his offer a little plug. It’s geoffaffleck.com/ebook, and what you’re going to get there are five things every first-time author needs to know about how to publish a book and build your platform. It’s a great little eBook! You can download it for free. I just wanted to give a kind of another plug, as I said, because I ran him a bit short because I asked a couple of extra questions that I wasn’t meant to. So go get it! We’re not an affiliate for Geoff. We’re just recommending his product because we think it’s going to help you build your brand and generate more clients who are having a book that’s actually selling well. Cheers!

Tom Poland 08:50 Thanks for checking out our Marketing The Invisible podcast. If you like what we’re doing here please head over to iTunes to subscribe, rate us, and leave us a review. It’s very much appreciated. And if you want to generate five fresh leads in just five hours then check out www.fivehourchallenge.com.



• Learn how to proactively replace your income in case clients drop off without waiting for inbound leads to come
• Find out how to individually personalize your offer to relevant prospects to make you stand out from the rest and make them see the value in what your business does
• Discover one most important way to sell not on price but value

Resources/Links:

• Download your free resource pack to give you some pointers and starters to help you get started in the world of personalized video. Click here: wonderleads.com/freestuff

Summary

Do you find your business in that volume-driven-automated leads approach that pushes people away rather than attracts your ideal market?

Are you tired of spending your time, money, and efforts on things that aren’t getting you anywhere?

Have you considered an approach your relevant prospects find hard to resist?

Dave Holloway helps businesses to sell on value, not price.

Hear him talk about the most important aspects of good business development and find the most relevant and right people to do business with among the millions out there.

Check out these episode highlights:

• 01:36 – Dave’s ideal client: My ideal client is B2B businesses that want to sell on value to premium businesses that want to sell on value rather than price.
• 01:50 – The problem Dave helps solve: I help people overcome their challenges with proactive business developments and new business developments.
• 02:11 – Symptoms Dave’s clients often encounter: The problems, the common experiences are: feeling like you’re wasting time, that money, and energy on activities that don’t feel like they’re getting you anywhere. They’re either getting you very, very little response, or they’re not getting any, at all. It feels like you’re just stuck in a bit of the mud.
• 03:54 – Mistakes clients make before they work with Dave: Typically, the main thing that people fall into the trap of is turning to two things: they turn to volume as a solution. And they often use, like, the second problem, which is automation, to do that. So, they’ll rely heavily on automated funnels to sort of drive a prospect to action when in reality, that actually has the opposite effect. It ends up pushing people away.
• 05:43 – Dave’s Valuable Free Action (VFA): I think the way to get around this is that people need to change their mindset to something instead of looking for something that you can scale as easily as possible, an outbound approach that you can scale, you need to be looking for ways that are as difficult as possible to scale.
• 07:15 – Dave’s Valuable Free Resource (VFR): Download your free resource pack here: https://wonderleads.com/freestuff/
• 07:54 – Q: What is the most important aspect of good business development? A: For me, that answer is focus.

Tweetable Takeaways from this Episode:

“If you're looking to improve your outbound sales, you need to be concentrating on the smallest viable audience for your business.” -Dave HollowayClick To Tweet

Transcript (Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)

Tom Poland 00:10 Greetings, everyone and a very warm welcome to another edition of Marketing the Invisible! I’ve just had a bowl with Dave Holloway. Dave, good day, Sir. Very well, where are you calling in from?

Dave Holloway 00:20 Hello, Tom. I’m calling in from Leeds in the north of the UK this morning.

Tom Poland 00:24 Right, and we’ve compared climates and fixed half the world’s political problems and religious… So, I think we’re ready for the interview. For those who don’t know, Dave, I actually, I stumbled across Dave, we had actually… I’d forgotten we were actually presented at a summit together. And I was on LinkedIn and something popped up, and there was Dave’s book, and I bought the book, and it arrived, and I devoured it. I thought it was an absolute cracker day; I really did. I thought it was so well thought out, pragmatic because so many books are a bit of a tease, you know, For a bit of a brochure, really! But yours was really solid. So, folks, I reached out to Dave and said, ‘Look, I’d love to have you on the show.’ And he’s graciously consented, with a small postponement due to the arrival of a new nephew for which we congratulate you today. In addition to writing a fabulous book, Dave is the owner of the shortest bio in the world, which consists of nine words. I asked him for his bio, and all I got was, ‘I help businesses to sell on value, not price.’, which is great. The subject of the interview is slightly different, How to Master Cold Outreach, which is tricky, but With Personal Video. Dave, our seven minutes starts now. Question one, who is your ideal client?

Dave Holloway 01:36 So, my ideal client, Tom, is B2B businesses that want to sell on value to premium businesses that want to sell on value rather than price.

Tom Poland 01:45 Perfect. Thank you. Question two, almost seven minutes left. What’s the problem you solve?

Dave Holloway 01:50 So, I help people overcome their challenges with proactive business developments and new business developments?

Tom Poland 01:59 Right. Okay. And so, how would…Question three, how would someone know that they need your services? What are the symptoms, what’s going on in their business where they think… Find out what Dave Holloway does. Six and a half.

Dave Holloway 02:11 So, I know the symptoms really well, Tom, because I suffered from these exact problems myself running a business for more than 10 years, where outbound sales and new business development was my number one headache. And the problems, the common experience are: feeling like you’re wasting time, that money, and your energy on activities that really don’t feel like they’re getting you anywhere, they’re either getting you very, very little response, or they’re not getting any at all. So, it feels like you’re just stuck in a bit of a… in the mud, so to speak. And so, the problem is that when a business operates like that, it finds itself very much in a kind of a reactive sales mode, where they are dealing with inbound inquiries or waiting for the business to come to them, which is fine. You know, there’s certainly a place for inbound sales. But that means the buyer has all the power in the sales conversation. And so, you’re not leading on value. And it’s very easy for a business to find itself stagnating or vulnerable; if suppliers suddenly drop off or frameworks change, you lose a huge portion of your income, and you don’t have any means of being able to proactively replace it. So, those are the typical symptoms I’ve experienced.

Tom Poland 03:34 A great, great picture you just painted. Thank you for that. Five minutes left. We’re talking about business owners that are growth orientated. They’re not going to sit on their date and do nothing. They’re going to make some mistakes, though. So, what are some of the mistakes that your new clients tell you they made before they started working with you?

Dave Holloway 03:54 So, typically, the main thing that people fall into the trap of is turning to two things; they turn to volume as a solution. So, the first one is they think, right, I’ve got to just hit out as many people as possible in hopes that some of them are in the market for what we do at that exact time. And they’re really searching for the needles in a haystack. And that’s all they’re focused on. They’re just solely focused on those people with an immediate pressing need. And they often use the second problem, which is automation, to do that. So, they’ll rely heavily on automated funnels to sort of drive a prospect to action, when in reality that actually has the opposite effect. It ends up pushing people away. And those communications, that sort of volume-driven-automated approach, where it’s pushing for action actually push people in the opposite way. It burns a lot of bridges that you could build over time.

Tom Poland 04:52 So, is it your observation that people going through those funnels feel like you know, one sheep and have very large flocks?

Dave Holloway 05:01 So, the thing is, that is exactly it. And the problem is, is that you cannot tailor a conversation to someone and make it relevant when you’re dealing on scale. And so, new business development is effective when you are dealing with relevancy to an individual where you have value that you can offer them that they would benefit from. But it’s very difficult to do that if you’re operating at scale.

Tom Poland 05:26 Powerful word relevancy. So, let’s, let’s flip it now. Let’s go, question five, three minutes left. What would you say was a valuable free action? What’s the big idea that someone could use to give away from being irrelevant…something that is actually going to work?

Dave Holloway 05:44 So, I think the way to get around this is that people need to really change their mindset to something instead of looking for sort of something that you can scale as easily as possible, an outbound approach that you can scale. You need to be looking for ways that are as difficult as possible to scale. So, what is it like? Those are the things that get you noticed in this day and age. Now, at Wonder Leads, we champion the use of high-quality, individually personalized video, which is sent to relevant prospects. And the reason that that helps when you’re dealing… when you’re thinking, right, how can I do this level that’s just about sufficient for my business needs? Does it really make you focus on the people whom you can get the most value from in terms of they will see the most value in what your business does? And, really, it’s about trying to think of an approach that will be too good for your prospect to ignore. So, it’s a very different mindset where you’re just looking to try and plant lots of healthy seeds.

Tom Poland 06:53 It has nice concepts, too, because, I mean, in going where, you know, and not traveling the road that is more traveled. You have less competitors, I guess. Well, let’s skip question six for the sake of time, sorry. Eighty seconds left, a valuable free resource, where can we send folks to so they’re going to find out more about your strategies and methods?

Dave Holloway 07:15 Okay, so we have a free resource pack, a companion to my book, Wonder Leads, which can help give you some pointers and starters to help you get started on the world of personalized video if that is something that you want to explore. And if you go to wonderleads.com/freestuff, you’ll be able to download it free from there.

Tom Poland 07:34 Perfect, folks. It’s www.wonderleads.com/freestuff. No commission changing hands here. We’re just promoting Dave because I reckon his stuff is darn good. So, go get it at wonderleads.com/freestuff. Last question, sir. Question seven. What’s the one question I should have asked you but didn’t, and the answer in 35 seconds?

Dave Holloway 07:54 Well, what is the most important aspect of good business development? And for me, that answer is focus. And so, if you’re looking to like improve your outbound sales, you need to be concentrating on the smallest viable audience for your business. Because the one that makes it much easier to find the right people out of all the millions you have available, and when I contact them, they’re more likely to respond favorably because you’re a specialist in their world.

Tom Poland 08:23 Perfect. Dave Holloway, thanks so much for your wisdom, insights, and your time.

Dave Holloway 08:26 Thanks, Tom. Cheers!

Tom Poland 08:29 Thanks for checking out our Marketing The Invisible podcast. If you like what we’re doing here please head over to iTunes to subscribe, rate us, and leave us a review. It’s very much appreciated. And if you want to generate five fresh leads in just five hours then check out www.fivehourchallenge.com.



• Find out why ads don’t really matter as much as you think it is in business
• Learn more on how you can create consistent leads and predictable sales without spending too much
• Understand why its more of a lead generation problem rather than a pricing problem

Resources/Links:

• To get more FREE tips on how to be friends with money, click here: https://www.lilachbullock.com/8-money-blocks/

Summary

Are you always scared that your leads and sales might not be the same the next month or the next year? Do you want to charge what you’re worth, and maybe even more?

Lilach Bullock has been listed in Forbes as one of the Top 20 Women Social Media Power Influencers. She has also been crowned the Social Influencer of Europe by Oracle. She is a recipient of a Global Women Champions Award for her outstanding contribution and leadership in business.

Get an over-the-shoulder experience on how Lilach turns prospects into long-term clients and how you can get out of the financial plateau and get increasing leads monthly without the stress of ads!

Check out these episode highlights:

• 01:48 – Lilach’s ideal client: For my ideal clients are B2B entrepreneurs, start-ups, SMEs, B2B market coaches, consultants. People who are looking to grow and scale their businesses, basically.
• 02:08 – The problem she helps solve: There’s lots of different problems that entrepreneurs face. Primarily, it’s how can they charge what they’re worth and more? How can they create consistent leads? How can they then convert and close them into sales?
• 03:08 – The symptoms of the problem: I love this question because, often, what people think is the problem. It isn’t a problem when you dig deeper into it. So, take for example, people who are afraid to put their prices up, or just charge what they know their worth. And there’s two parts to this problem.
• 04:42 – Clients’ common mistakes before consulting Lilach: I think the most common mistakes, and this is often perpetuated by the industry online, is how easy everything is. The reality is, is that we’re living in a very saturated competitive marketplace. And most people get bored too quickly.
• 05:59 – Lilach’s Valuable Free Action (VFA): I think, ultimately, is to do what everybody else isn’t doing. Because as I said earlier, the market is so saturated. It’s so competitive. Everyone’s saying the same stuff. Nobody’s being bold enough to have a unique and strong voice.
• 06:40 – Lilach’s Valuable Free Resource (VFR): To get more FREE tips on how to be friends with money, click here: https://www.lilachbullock.com/8-money-blocks/
• 07:30 – Q: What is the top lead generation tactic you should be doing? A: And the truth is that every single lead generation tactic works– every single thing! Whether that’s sending messages, whether it’s doing cold email outreach, or LinkedIn outreach, or ads or whatever it is that you’re doing, networking, webinars. The key is to do it consistently.

Tweetable Takeaways from this Episode:

“The truth is every single lead generation tactic works, every single thing! The key is to do it consistently.” -Lilach BullockClick To Tweet

Transcript (Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)

Tom Poland 00:10 Greetings, everyone, and a very warm welcome to another edition of Marketing the Invisible. I’m Tom Poland beaming out to you from the sunny Sunshine Coast in Australia, joined today by Lilach Bullock. Lilach, good day. A very warm welcome from Down Under. Whereabouts are you calling in from?

Lilach Bullock 00:24 Hi! Thank you so much, Tom. So, I’m actually in sunny Israel, but I’m from the UK originally.

Tom Poland 00:32 Right and well, that’s quite interesting, what a cultural shift. And a little birdie told me you’ve been there for about four years now. so fully acclimatized, are we?

Lilach Bullock 00:40 Oh my goodness, I still struggle with the language like you wouldn’t believe! It’s going really well. We’ve just finally bought a place here as well. So yeah, and my daughter’s just finishing graduating school. So, it’s gone really, really well.

Tom Poland 00:55 Well, folks, if you haven’t heard Lilach, she’s actually been listed in Forbes as one of the top 20 Women Social Media Power Influencers, which is pretty freakin’ incredible! When you think of all the social influencers, and our guest today is one of the top 20. She was crowned the Social Influencer of Europe by Oracle, the software company, some pretty heavy hitters. She is a recipient of a Global Women Champions Award for her outstanding contribution and leadership in business. So, a real privilege to have you here today. Lilach, thank you for joining us. The title of our little interview today is, “How to- dramatic pause- Quadruple Your Sales Without Spending Any Money on Ads”. Cool. Let’s rock and roll! Our seven minutes start now. Who is your ideal client, Lilach?

Lilach Bullock 01:48 For my ideal clients are B2B entrepreneurs, start-ups, SMEs, B2B market coaches, consultants. People who are looking to grow and scale their businesses, basically.

Tom Poland 02:02 Perfect! And question two, six and a half minutes left, how would you define the problem that you solve?

Lilach Bullock 02:08 There’s lots of different problems that entrepreneurs face. Primarily, it’s how can they charge what they’re worth and more? How can they create consistent leads? How can they then convert and close them into sales? How can they, simple things, like knowing how much money they’re making next month? Being able to forecast, being able to juggle the entrepreneurial journey, the mindset challenges, being the most productive, efficient and effective with their time, and making the right decisions and prioritizing, being totally focused, taking massive action, consistent action and the right actions, which are going to help them move the goals closer, move the needle closer to the goals that they want to achieve.

Tom Poland 02:53 There’s a few challenges in there. So, what would you say is, this is question three, what would you say are some of the typical symptoms that your ideal clients, once they become your client, they told you that they were suffering from before they were your clients? Five and a half minutes left.

Lilach Bullock 03:08 So, it’s very- I love this question because, often, what people think is the problem. It isn’t a problem when you dig deeper into it. So, take, for example, people who are afraid to put their prices up, or just charge what they know their worth. And there’s two parts to this problem. One is they’re basing their pricing on what they see around them. And we all know that the stats are that 97% of entrepreneurs are not successful. So, they’re basing this pricing model, plucking things out in the air, basing it on 97% of other people who also have no idea what they’re doing, and probably not taking it very well. So that’s one part of the problem. The other part of the problem is total fear, because they don’t have enough leads coming to them. They have a lead generation problem. They think they have a pricing problem. They think that they’re not charging enough, but actually they have a lead generation problem. They’re simply not generating enough leads consistently so that they can say no to people, so that they can pick and choose who they want to work with. And so that they can forecast and see how much money they’re making next month, etc. So, they work from fear, panic, and just not enough knowledge. And we all know that knowledge is power.

Tom Poland 04:21 So, thank you for that. Question four, just over four minutes left. We’re talking about growth orientated individuals here that don’t have enough clients coming in. They probably aren’t charging what they’re worth based out of fear, but they’re still going to try stuff. So, what would you say are some of the most common mistakes that these entrepreneurs are making before they find your solution?

Lilach Bullock 04:42 I think the most common mistakes, and this is often perpetuated by the industry online, is how easy everything is. The reality is, is that we’re living in a very saturated competitive marketplace. And most people get bored too quickly. They just don’t realize the amount of huge action which is required, and the consistency involved in that. And they say, “Well, no one’s listening.” So, there’s just so many challenges. And I feel for entrepreneurs starting out today because, you know, I’ve been doing this for nearly 18 years. So, for me, I already have a margin. I already have a big idea. So, for me, if I post something out automatically, it’s going to generate reach. But when you’re starting out or your reach is small, or if you’ve had to pivot, which many of us have had to during Corona, then your message, you know, you could have the best message in the world, but it simply won’t be getting heard as much as somebody else who’s got a really large network.

Tom Poland 05:44 Wow, thank you for that. So, question five, three minutes left, what would you say is one, a top tip, a valuable free action that someone could take that’s going to shift them closer towards being able to quadruple their income without spending money on advertisements?

Lilach Bullock 05:59 So yeah, again, love these questions. I think, ultimately, is to do what everybody else isn’t doing. Because as I said earlier, the market is so saturated. It’s so competitive. Everyone’s saying the same stuff. Nobody’s being bold enough to have a unique and strong voice. Be controversial. Be raw. Be honest. Be transparent. The key here is to be memorable and visible. And when you get those two combinations combined with consistency, that’s a winning formula.

Tom Poland 06:30 Perfect! Thank you for that. Two minutes left, question six, one valuable free resource. Where can we direct folks to that’s going to help them more with this problem?

Lilach Bullock 06:40 Yeah, sure. So, I have an eBook. I say it’s an eBook. It’s really a very short, quick guide, because I know that people have a short attention span on how to overcome eight money blocks. And there’s the most eight common blocks there and you can download it, overcome your money blocks and charge what you’re worth and beyond.

Tom Poland 07:00 So that’s at www., L-I-L-A-C-H, Bullock, B-U, double L, O-C-K.com/8, and that’s the number eight, -money-blocks. It’ll be under the video, if you’re watching the video. But if you haven’t, then go get it. L-I- L-A-C-H, bullock.com/8, that’s number eight, -money-blocks. Last question, what’s the one question I should have asked you, but didn’t? And we’ve got a full 60 seconds to answer.

Lilach Bullock 07:30 So, I think we touched on it earlier about people not having the right expectations about business. And they think it’s so easy and then they get bored because it’s taking too long. Everyone asked me what is the top lead generation tactic you should be doing? And the truth is that every single lead generation tactic works– every single thing! Whether that’s sending messages, whether it’s doing cold email outreach, or LinkedIn outreach, or ads or whatever it is that you’re doing, networking, webinars. The key is to do it consistently. And to take massive, massive action. I really can’t emphasize this enough. When people say things aren’t working, reality is, is that they need to do it more and they need to do it better and stronger. Also, don’t be afraid to ask. People are so nervous to ask for a sale. It’s like we’re all here to sell. What’s the point in networking? Everyone’s here to sell. Just ask. Don’t be afraid.

Tom Poland 08:29 Thanks so much for your time and your insights. Cheers!

Tom Poland 07:29 Thanks for checking out our Marketing The Invisible podcast. If you like what we’re doing here please head over to iTunes to subscribe, rate us, and leave us a review. It’s very much appreciated. And if you want to generate five fresh leads in just five hours then check out www.fivehourchallenge.com.



• Discover what’s the strategy that will guarantee you more sales, qualified leads, and frequently booked out
• Learn why you should stop wasting your money on ads and start investing in a good copywriter
• Find out how you can effortlessly craft a one-liner that will keep your audience hooked and you fully booked

Resources/Links:

• To find more on how you can get more sales and be effortlessly booked out, click here: www.dawnapuan.com/copykeys

Summary

Do you feel like your ads are getting you nowhere anymore? Feeling the stress of trying to get booked out and increasing your sales? Want to know how you can effortlessly achieve those?

Your product isn’t the only one that matters in your business. Your marketing- specifically crafting your message- plays a crucial role in magnetizing your clients and keeping your business at a constant high in sales.

Dawn Apuan is an expert copywriter and funnel strategist who helps coaches sell out even their most expensive offers.

Sit back and listen in as Dawn shares how crafting your message and giving more attention to your copywriting increases your chances of getting booked out by thousands with little to no effort at all!

Check out these episode highlights:

• 02:02 – Dawn’s ideal client: My ideal clients are online coaches who have digital courses and group programs like a mastermind.
• 02:36 – The problem she helps solve: The biggest problem that I solve for people is not getting the right messaging, not knowing how to say what they do in a concise way that actually inspires people to take action. We call it conversion copy.
• 03:34 – The symptoms of the problem: It’s business owners who often have launched a program a couple of times or their digital course, and they’re just not getting the sales that they want. You know, there’s this idea that funnels are like unicorns, and they’re just, you know, you build it, and they will come.
• 04:54 – Clients’ common mistakes before consulting Dawn: Now the two biggest ones I see are either not hiring a copywriter or hiring a cheap and expensive one like at an agency. That’s the first big mistake. The second big mistake is Facebook ads.
• 06:22 – Dawn’s Valuable Free Action (VFA): I would say get super clear on what I call your “one-liner”. So, the ability to say what you do in 10 words or less. Yes, I promise it’s possible. I’ll give you the simple formula right now. It is just “I help “person” be, do or have “XYZ result”.
• 07:12 – Dawn’s Valuable Free Resource (VFR): To find more on how you can get more sales and be effortlessly booked out, click here: www.dawnapuan.com/copykeys
• 07:52 – Q: What am I most proud of in life and business? A: I’m most proud of being a mom, but that is closely integrated into my business because I started my business because of becoming a mom. I used to be a pastor with my husband. We also were executive directors of a non-profit.

Tweetable Takeaways from this Episode:

“Get super clear on what I call your ‘one-liner,’ the ability to say what you do in 10 words or less. Once you get clear on that, it makes everything easier.” -Dawn ApuanClick To Tweet

Transcript (Note, this was transcribed using a transcription software and may not reflect the exact words used in the podcast)

Tom Poland 00:10 Greetings, everyone. A very warm welcome to, yet, another edition of Marketing the Invisible. I’m Tom Poland beaming out to you from the sunny Sunshine Coast in Australia, joined today by Dawn Apuan. Dawn, good day from Down Under. Where are you hanging out?

Dawn Apuan 00:24 Hey, Tom! I live near Seattle, Washington. So West Coast of the US.

Tom Poland 00:28 Seattle, so you’ve got what? Springs sprung, coming into summer.

Dawn Apuan 00:33 Oh, we’re getting there. Not quite as sunny as your neck of the woods, but-

Tom Poland 00:38 Seattle’s one of those places that has to be dragged out of winter, sort of kicking and screaming and-

Dawn Apuan 00:42 Pretty much. We’ve had, I think, the wettest and coldest spring on record. So, we’re a little drenched up here.

Tom Poland 00:51 We just had one of the hottest weather summers up here in the north of Australia. But let’s get off climate and onto you. For those of you who haven’t heard of Dawn, she’s an expert copywriter and funnel strategist, which is just a fabulous specialty, where you can craft the right marketing messages and have the people that are actually your ideal clients notice the marketing message and motivate them to take action. She helps coaches sell out even their most expensive offers. Dawn, you have a gift, a skill, a capability that the world desperately needs because so many people have 10 out of 10 coaching ability or consulting ability, but 2 out of 10 marketing messages. So, folks, we’re going to help you with that today with Dawn. I’m just going to sit back and ask the questions. The title is, “How to Craft Marketing Messages that Moves People to Action”. And, folks, this is just so critical because if you’re sick of being at networking meetings and people, you know, they ask you what you do, and you try out your elevator pitch, your USP, and you know, their eyes glaze over, then you need to talk with Dawn. So, let’s kick off, Dawn. Question number one, our time starts now, who’s your ideal client?

Dawn Apuan 02:02 My ideal clients are online coaches who have digital courses and group programs like a mastermind.

Tom Poland 02:09 Which is-

Dawn Apuan 02:13 There is a lot in that space. And I have niched down mostly to the business and the spiritual space. But I’ve helped our clients with everything from wedding planners to horse trainers and everything in between. So, I love the variety that it brings!

Tom Poland 02:28 Alright, that keeps you stimulated. So, let’s go to question number two, six and a half minutes left. What would you say is the problem that you solve for these folks?

Dawn Apuan 02:36 Yeah, the biggest problem that I solve for people is not getting the right messaging, not knowing how to say what they do in a concise way that actually inspires people to take action. We call it conversion copy. So, your words actually convert into a sale. In a more concise way, I make my clients a whole lot more money. It’s what I love to do. I love getting messages from them that says, “Hey, I mean 9k overnight”, or “Hey, I made 22 overnight.” Those are super fun to get. And I know that they’re happy making more money, and they’re making a bigger impact on the world.

Tom Poland 03:12 Yeah, and helping people while making money is twin objectives that seem to often go together. So, question three, five and a half minutes left, what would you say are the typical symptoms that someone who would be an ideal client for you is experiencing in their business right now? What’s going on where they might get the heads up, and go, “Yeah, I need to find out more about what Dawn’s teaching.”

Dawn Apuan 03:34 Yeah, it’s business owners who often have launched a program a couple of times or their digital course, and they’re just not getting the sales that they want. You know, there’s this idea that funnels are like unicorns, and they’re just, you know, you build it, and they will come. And really, you need a good copy to sell things online. And so, a lot of my clients have their products, have their offers, they’ve sold them, but they want to sell more. And so that is where I come in, and they just are frustrated. They don’t have the time to put into it, and they don’t have the skill set, quite honestly, to have a trained copywriter. And that’s okay! I really believe that they should stay in their zone of genius and hire a copywriter to be in their zone of genius.

Tom Poland 04:16 Right. And based on my experience, albeit if anyone had this experience, but it’s something that’s developed, of course, but it also is something that just comes more naturally to some people than others. And so, I guess what I’m saying, folks, is that if you really struggle with words, you should probably, as Dawn has put it so well and stay in your zone of genius and get someone else to help that. What would you say, question four, four minutes left, what would you say are some of the common mistakes that people make? They’re not getting noticed. Their funnels aren’t getting filled if you like, but they’re going to try stuff because they’re ambitious and goal orientated and they do want to help people, they do want to make more money. What would you say are some of the common mistakes people make?

Dawn Apuan 04:54 Now the two biggest ones I see are either not hiring a copywriter or hiring a cheap and expensive one like at an agency. That’s the first big mistake. The second big mistake is Facebook ads. Investing in Facebook ads, before you’re actually ready. people think, “Oh, I’ll just throw money at ads, and then I’ll make more money.” And it’s not as magical as it seems. And a lot of money can get wasted. When you just, at the end of the day, you could make so much more money, if you just took what you were initially going to invest in ads, and invest in a copywriter. The thing is, you know, ads like all the cool kids are running ads, it’s the sexy things to do. It’s not awesome to hire a copywriter. But it’s really awesome when you start making way more money. So that’s the biggest mistake, I think.

Tom Poland 05:43 Facebook advertising is like California and got rushed. You know, it’s the people making the money, not the people doing the digging. They’re not people that are building the funnels, they’re people supplying the tools and platforms. So, folks, take half of what you are going to invest in advertising and go find someone like Dawn to get the message right before you waste money on advertising. Let’s talk about moving forward. Question five, three minutes left, one valuable free action. Give us a top tip. People probably want to reach out to you and, folks, we don’t do any affiliate commissions here. So, this is just my recommendation. You do reach out to Dawn, tell you a bit in a moment. But in the meantime, Dawn, something that’ll take people a step in the right direction and give them a bit of a hand up?

Dawn Apuan 06:22 Yeah, I would say get super clear on what I call your “one-liner”. So, the ability to say what you do in 10 words or less. Yes, I promise it’s possible. I’ll give you the simple formula right now. It is just “I help “person” be, do or have “XYZ result”.” So some examples of that would be like, “I help new moms fit their skinny jeans again”, “I help homeowners eliminate their electric bills”, “I help coaches get sales within 24 hours.” Those are a couple of examples. So, once you get clear on that, it makes everything easier.

Tom Poland 06:58 Each of those three is pure genius! So, there’s the formula, folks. Dawn’s going to help you some more. Dawn, question six, 90 seconds left, is a valuable free resource. Where can people go to find out more about your work and get even more great ideas?

Dawn Apuan 07:12 Yeah, at my website, which is www.dawnapuan.com/copykeys, you’ll find my high-ticket Copy Keys eBook, where you’ll get 15 proven keys to help you sell more. And when you opt into that you get a five-video training series that is going to help your copy so much.

Tom Poland 07:32 Excellent! So that’s Dawn, as in the sun’s coming up, A for airport, P for pivot, U-A, N for Nigel, .com. Dawnapuan.com/copykeys as in, put it in the door and open the door. Fifty seconds left, Dawn. What’s the one question I should have asked you but didn’t?

Dawn Apuan 07:52 What am I most proud of in life and business?

Tom Poland 07:55 And what is Dawn Apuan most proud of?

Dawn Apuan 07:59 I’m most proud of being a mom, but that is closely integrated into my business because I started my business because of becoming a mom. I used to be a pastor with my husband. We also were executive directors of a non-profit. And we gave up the security of that job, a fully furnished home, cars provided for us, basically our whole entire life, we walked away for me to build my business so that I could raise my daughter. And I took my copywriting business from zero to six figures in 11 months and then doubled that in my second year, retired my husband, wrote an Amazon best-selling book telling the story so that I could inspire others.

Tom Poland 08:40 Brilliant! Dawn, thanks so much for your time.

Dawn Apuan 08:43 Absolutely. Thank you!

Tom Poland 08:45 Thanks for checking out our Marketing The Invisible podcast. If you like what we’re doing here please head over to iTunes to subscribe, rate us, and leave us a review. It’s very much appreciated. And if you want to generate five fresh leads in just five hours then check out www.fivehourchallenge.com.