Explorez tous les épisodes du podcast Marketing Agency Exposed Podcast
| Titre | Date | Durée | |
|---|---|---|---|
| Ep 137: How to LEAD Client Expectations | 10 Nov 2023 | 00:43:34 | |
Navigating the promises and pitfalls of the agency-client relationship. Discover strategies for aligning expectations, establishing boundaries, and crafting clarity around goals, metrics, and shared vision. The key to success? Honest communication, mutual understanding, and a relationship built on trust and partnership. Summary:In this week's episode, the guys delve into the nuances of managing client expectations and optimizing the agency-client relationship. Bob kicks things off by highlighting the disconnect that can occur when clients request general awareness and agencies deliver specific metrics. Ken emphasizes that agencies can only control their expertise, not guaranteed outcomes, since external factors also influence results. Brad shares an example where a client disregarded research recommendations, then blamed the agency when their gut instinct didn't pan out. Bob advocates for an immersion day to align on goals and strategy before engagement. Ken argues that clients should view agencies more like employees, carefully vetting values and vision. He notes that in successful past relationships, mutual philosophy and respect were key. Brad stresses empathy for clients' high-stakes position while hiring agencies. Bob recommends using tools like HumanIK to analyze clients' psychological profiles and craft tailored communication. In closing, the guys encourage honest, ongoing dialogue to establish shared expectations and boundaries. Keeping clients' ultimate aims top of mind, whether fame or fortune, can help agencies LEAD expectations by forging trust, partnership and clarity. Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:
Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken: Show Highlights:[1:42] Brad introduces the topic of managing client expectations around results when working with agencies. [3:18] Ken discusses how agencies can only control their expertise, not guarantee outcomes. [5:39] Brad shares an example where a client disregarded research recommendations, then blamed the agency when it didn't work. [8:20] Ken argues clients should view agencies like employees, carefully vetting values and vision. [11:37] Brad stresses empathy for clients' high-stakes position while hiring agencies. [17:47] Brad highlights the difference between what clients say and what they actually want. [22:11] Ken emphasizes the importance of mutual philosophy and respect in successful agency-client relationships. [28:55] Bob advocates for defining perfect customer criteria to evaluate fit. [32:13] Brad discusses the high-risk stakes for clients hiring agencies. [33:40] Ken compares hiring an agency to hiring an employee. [38:38] Bob recommends using HumanIK to analyze clients' communication styles. [41:16] Brad suggests identifying red flags early to navigate new client relationships. [42:36] Bob reminds listeners to like, subscribe and check out the new 3-camera format on YouTube. | |||
| Ep 136: How to Invest Your Time and Money Like a Boss | 20 Oct 2023 | 00:45:07 | |
Learn how to get the highest returns on your time and money investments. The guys provide actionable tips on becoming a "time multiplier," maximizing conference experiences, starting a podcast, and aligning your efforts with principles that create exponential growth. Discover how to build assets that compound over time. Summary:In this episode, the guys discuss strategies for investing time and money wisely to achieve optimal returns. They talk about the concept of becoming a "time multiplier" by investing time upfront into tasks that eliminate repetitive work and create compounding returns. For example, spending time to automate processes saves ongoing effort in the future. They emphasize the importance of focusing on high-impact activities versus low-value repetitive tasks. Regarding conferences, the guys debate their value, with mixed opinions. Conferences can offer opportunities to connect and gain insights, but often lack real ROI. More curated events like TED provide better educational experiences. Interactive workshops and pre-recorded talks can also enhance conferences. Ultimately, investing in a mastermind group or coach provides higher returns than conferences for many. Starting a podcast is highlighted as a worthwhile investment; it enables access to high-profile individuals and provides a platform to share valuable insights. The guys stress the power of aligning efforts with universal success principles that compound over time, whether in business or personal contexts. Rather than scarcity, adopting an abundance mindset is key. Overall, the episode provides pragmatic tips for becoming a wise steward of time and money, creating assets that continue to pay dividends into the future. Top 3 Curtain Pulls from this episode:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:
Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Show Highlights: [5:08] Ken talks about the importance of good times and bad times in life and business for growth. [7:09] Bob asks the guys about their thoughts and predictions for 2023 and changes they'll make in their businesses. [7:34] Brad discusses focusing on new business development, evaluating their services, and figuring out how to better serve current clients in the new year. [11:52] Ken emphasizes the importance of profit and the misconception that high profit is greedy or selfish. [18:27] Bob discusses changing mindsets and beliefs around profit. [20:30] Brad applies the adage "shoot for the stars, land on the moon" to goal setting. [22:22] Ken suggests questions agencies should ask themselves to prompt mindset shifts. [25:54] Bob talks about becoming a "time multiplier" and investing time to get exponential returns. [28:50] Brad compares the concept of a time multiplier to compound interest. [31:13] Brad emphasizes the importance of setting measurable goals and targets. [33:23] Ken introduces his new show "Growth Time" and the topics and episodes he's covered. [38:59] Brad asks about the frequency of Ken's podcast and how often guests appear. [40:49] Ken commits to releasing a book by the end of 2023 based on his podcast. | |||
| Ep 126: How to use AI in your agency to save you time | 31 Mar 2023 | 00:42:27 | |
Subtitle: When most people think about AI, they think of the dangerous robots or technology from movies that destroy the human race. Though AI does have the potential to be dangerous, it also has a lot of potential to assist businesses by creating content, cleaning up writing, and helping with research. Today, the guys dive into the practical uses and dangers of Chat GPT and AI. They also talk about communication, misinformation, human nuance, Wall-E, and more on this week’s episode.
Summary: In this week’s episode, Bob, Ken, and Brad engage in a discussion about Chat GPT and AI. Bob starts by asking how the guys use AI practically in their agency and business. Bob also explains that machine learning is the precursor to AI and has been around since the 1960s. He defines AI as generative, meaning it takes a prompt and tries to match and complete the thought as accurately as possible. The group then delves into the importance of words and communication in human relationships. They consider if it is the words alone, the context of the words, or the embodiment behind the words that matter most. Bob highlights the complexity of communication and how AI may struggle to understand the nuances of human language and relationships. Brad shares his experience exploring and using Chat GPT. He tests its capabilities and tries to find ways to use it to save time and create authentic content. He also discusses the amount of information that Chat GPT can retain as context, which affects its ability to generate accurate responses. Ken brings up the importance of using technology and AI wisely, leveraging time and avoiding the dangers of atrophy. He warns about relying too heavily on AI and losing valuable skills, such as writing. Brad agrees and highlights how Chat GPT has helped him save time and create content. Ken then asks Brad if he has used Chat GPT for research purposes. Brad discusses the extensive knowledge that Chat GPT has and also raises concerns about the dangers of AI creating and publishing false information. He emphasizes the importance of fact-checking and ensuring the accuracy of the information generated by AI. Brad highlights that the value of writing is not the writing itself, but the concepts behind it. Bob elaborates on the idea that AI does not have the same understanding of nuances as humans do, which could lead to misinformation. He explains that AI is only trying to give what it thinks the user wants, but has no incentive to provide what is true and accurate. Bob raises the concern about the potential for the best AI to become a tool solely for wealthy individuals and businesses. He warns about the unequal distribution of technology and the consequences of a small group having access to such powerful tools. Finally, Ken wraps up the discussion with a warning about the need for discipline in balancing technology and human skills. He emphasizes the importance of finding a balance between using technology and preserving valuable skills, such as critical thinking and writing. He stresses that there is no self-discipline in technology, and it is up to us to exercise discipline in its use.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad: Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:42] Bob begins a discussion about this episode’s topic, Chat GPT and AI. [1:35] Ken asks the guys how they use AI practically for agency and business. [3:14] Bob talks about how machine learning is the prequel to AI, and AI has been around since the 60s. He says that AI is, “what we call generative. It's taking a prompt and it's actually trying to match that prompt and finish that thought and make it as accurate as possible.” [5:45] Bob dives deep and asks, “what's the importance of words and communications in how we relate to other human beings? Is it the words alone? Is it the context of the words? Or is it the actual embodiment of someone behind those words?” [10:00] Brad talks about some of the practical ways he’s been exploring and using Chat GPT. “I'm just testing it out, I'm trying to figure out how this thing can help me. What type of processes can I throw at it that it would give me the results I'm looking for? how much information could it retain, that it can use as context?” [13:48] Ken talks about the importance of leveraging your time wisely and how to use technology and AI to either increase comfort or leverage; he also discusses the dangers of atrophy. “If you just asked it to write everything for you, eventually you'd lose the ability to write.” [15:39] Brad talks about other ways he’s been using Chat GPT and how it has helped him save time and create authentic content. [18:29] Ken asks, “Have you used it for anything on the research side of things?” [18:33] Brad discusses the extensive knowledge that Chat GPT has and also launches a discussion about the dangers of AI creating and publishing false information. [21:25] Brad says that, “The value of writing is not the writing. It's the concepts.” [23:57] Bob elaborates on the idea that AI doesn’t have the same understanding of nuances as humans do and how this could lead to misinformation and its various dangers. “It's just trying to give you what it thinks you want, but it has no incentive to give you what is true and what is accurate” [33:49] Bob talks about the potential for the best AI to become a tool solely for wealthy individuals and businesses. [36:18] Ken wraps up with a warning, “There's no self discipline to balance technology with not technology. We have to exercise a lot of human discipline with these things, because they're really powerful.”
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| Ep 37: What’s Your Agency Content Strategy? How do you produce great content that produces results? | 09 Sep 2020 | 00:53:38 | |
Summary: Understanding the importance of great content creation is the first step in moving towards a killer content strategy- everyone knows they should be doing it, but prioritizing content creation over client work isn’t always the most appealing prospect. In today’s episode, we dive into the DEEP value in creating your own content and how the process has worked for us in our own agencies.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [3:24] Brad talks about the challenge of beginning the process of content creation for yourself, reflecting on the idea that it’s not selfish to do so but actually an important investment! “We need to be our #1 client… and it’s really difficult to get employees on board with that.”
[4:55] Ken talks about how difficult it is to get your voice heard amongst the other screaming voices in the industry. [7:18] Ken says that creating a strong voice for yourself that is based on being a thought leader in the industry is the philosophy for Metacake. [7:26] Bob: “I know for me,one of the things that was really successful was Itried to blog and write a lot and try to position myself as somebody who knew what theywere talking about. In that field.” [9:25] Bob speaks about how agencies should think of themselves more as a media company that just marketing and/or advertising.
[14:05] Brad asks Bob to talk about content writing, as it’s something Bob has been a strong advocate for for a long time. [15:00] Bob responds: “Over time, if you see content writing as part of your longterm strategy, there is power in that. You can google the name of my agency and stuff I wrote 10 or 15 years ago still pops up.”
[19:00] Ken talks about what truly good content is and how much investment of time and energy it really takes. Properly writing about new ideas or strategies takes a lot of time and intentionality. [23:00] Brad: When you’re writing, look at the news of the day and write about it from the perspective of your own industry and how it relates. [25:26] Brad: Consistency is key- the biggest influencers and content creators in the world didn’t happen into their success, they showed up every day and put the work in. Be consistent in your content creation and the results will come over time. [27:47] Ken speaks on finding your unique point of view and passion for that perspective.
[36:00] Ken continues to speak on client who are hungry for a specific type of agency relationship- “there is an appetite for good educational content that people could do to help sell themselves or their business” and so Metacake serves to fill that need.
[39:11] Brad asks Ken about how he gets Metacake behind his content strategy as a team. [40:09] Ken: “I think being genuine is really important because… if you’re not genuine and it’s really contrived, you do it just to put a content strategy out… that’s not true to who you are. I think people will feel that hypocrisy and I imagine it will be harder to to get behind longterm, but the truth is a big part of our heart is what we believe our purpose is as a business.” [41:00] Ken responds: “I believe a product that all agencies sell information and experience… you might deliver that by creating a website, or you might deliver that by writing a book, but you’re still brokering information and experience.”
[48:00] Brad talks about the importance of deciding where to spend your money wisely- the process of trying something new can pay off massively in learning for your team.
[48:21] Ken “I have a theory that most of the reason why people don’t put effort into content strategy is they don’t know where to start- what to talk about, what their personality and style are going to be. And so put time into that- that’ll prove returns but also, just DO IT.” [51:42] Bob speaks on the next episode, and how The Guys will dive into maximizing content and some of the tools that are used to make this happen. “We’ve convinced you to focus on this content creation, but now we need to know where to start.”
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| Ep 36: Surviving Crisis and Coming Out Stronger with Guest Chris Brewer of OMG Commerce | 02 Sep 2020 | 00:56:02 | |
Summary: In today’s episode, we talk with Chris Brewer about the challenges his agency has faced since March of 2020. Chris breaks down the steps he and his team took to gain stable financial footing early on, the way that their team culture and mindset has impacted their client relationships throughout the pandemic, and the value that comes from creating loyalty with your team and clients in hard times.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About Our Guest: Chris Brewer is the co-founder of OMG Commerce. He is a 10 year Agency veteran out of St Louis with experience building 7-figure businesses. OMG Commerce has the honor of being a Premier Google Partner- something that only 3% of Google Partner businesses attain. OMG delivers online/offline marketing expertise, advice, and education to ecommerce businesses and brands worldwide.
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [4:09] Ken introduces Chris Brewer, founder of OMG Commerce. “His company has risen to a level that less than 3% of all Google Partner Agencies worldwide attain- the rank of premier partner… this company delivers online/offline marketing expertise, advise, and education to ecommerce businesses and brands worldwide. Chris has a history of building 7-figure businesses. In addition to the incredible growth and success with OMG, his entrepreneurial accomplishments have included an outdoor advertising firm and a publishing company.” [4:58] Bob asks Chris about how Covid-19 has impacted their business. “Has it really brought a whole new level of business for you?” [6:17] Bob asks who Chris’ typical client is. [6:23] Chris responds: For Amazon clients, having at least a million in annual revenue is necessary- for the Google clients they must be spending at least 5K a month over the last 90 days.
[7:42] Bob asks how they filter those people. [7:48] Chris responds that he collaborates with his business partner and they both call attention to potential red flags for themselves.
[12:30] Ken asks what Coroniavirus looked like for OMG commerce- layoffs, shakeups? [12:54] Chris talks about his 10 years of experience in the business, the punches he’s already taken and recovered from over the years and how the fear that Covid brought was nothing like any of those past experiences.
[19:30] Chris shares that they wound up being profitable at the end of Q2, which was surprising. Their bonus structure program was based on quarterly numbers, and they made the decision to go ahead and hand out those bonuses at the height of the pandemic. They made that decision and it blew their employees away- which has in turn strengthened their culture and work ethic and grown the business in more ways than just financially. [23:00] Ken talks about how great that decision was- stressing that it creates a loyalty that is incredibly valuable on the team side.
[23:36] Chris: “It took a pandemic for us to realize that if we’re doing the right things for our clients (and employees) as an agency, it would have to be very dark times in the US for us to lose enough clients to put us out of business.” [25:09] Bob asks about how Chris communicated with his team during this early Covid phase. [25:23] Chris responds: There were a lot of discussions about what people were and weren’t comfortable with. They kept a skeleton crew of people at the office for as long as they could, but as soon as someone asked if they could work from home, they let everyone know that it was an option. Allowing people the option to feel safe, heard, and cared for resulted in more productivity and actual growth for the company overall. [30:00] Ken asks Chris about the necessity of working in an office at all anymore- will they ever go to a full remote model?
[33:00] Ken shares that a hybrid working model is better suited for the reality of life and how humans function- the freedom of blending home life with work life helps to create a healthy balance that results in more productivity and happier individuals. [35:00] The Guys chat with Chris about how well this hybrid model has worked for them so far. They speak on the empathy that has been extended in many directions, as we are seeing one another through a more human lens. Not necessarily informality, but a more realistic look at how we all function in our lives. Just being on video calls has made this more applicable than ever. [40:00] Ken asks Chris about OMG differentiates themselves in an oversaturated market. [41:45] Chris says that by shining a light on your team and your culture, you can create a name for yourself, a reputation that spreads in a positive way about what you’re doing.
[46:32] Chris: “I would say to other agencies- if you’ve got a great blog or you have a certain skillset that you can turn into a guide, just get it done, find someone to get that done for you…” Start with someone who’s willing to publish your content- SEO it and put legs underneath it! [47:30] Bob asks Chris about his plans for the future. [47:37] Chris: They’re looking into ways to go full service on Amazon, as they’ve had a couple clients who left out of necessity.
[53:07] Bob thanks Chris for his transparency and honesty, saying that it’s encouraging as an agency owner to hear others that are further along talk about their experience and the hard lessons they’ve learned. [55:00] Ken asks Chris where we can find him online- social plugs! Fun fact: If you live chat OMG Commerce, Chris is likely the one that will respond to you! You can also find him on Twitter, Instagram, etc. Check him out! | |||
| Ep 35: Employees vs Contractors - What’s the Ideal Team Makeup? | 26 Aug 2020 | 00:57:55 | |
Summary: In today’s episode, we’re breaking down the “image” of a giant advertising office with a giant team vs the reality. We hit on the pain points of proving yourself to new clients, managing dynamic work preferences in a changing work landscape, and the deep, long-lasting benefits of a blended team with varied levels of experience. How do you determine which roles require a full-time employee versus an independent contractor? How much access should those contractors have to your clients directly, if any? What are the pros and cons of each? We’re diving into all this and more!
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [2:38] Bob introduces our topic- contractors, team composition, and how you communicate with the outside world about that. [3:21] Ken says that although there is an image of a large office with a ton of employees, in reality “there’s always a blend of staff and that’s usually a good thing.”
[4:16] Brad shares his experience with a team of developers in Romania that he has a strong business relationship with. It began 10 years ago and has only grown stronger since then. Technically they would be considered freelancers but the relationship is so strong, that team feels like an extension of his team here in the States. [7:18] Bob asks what is the main reason for maintaining that relationship over the years, when certainly there have been opportunities to bring it closer. Is it availability, skillsets, etc? [7:26] Brad says it used to be cost, but that has definitely gone up over time. “We’ve had to adjust a lot of their fees and stuff for us, right now I wouldn’t say they’re super competitive to the US… but they know so much information, especially clients that we’ve dealt with for years… there’s a value in that.”
[9:25] Bob asks Ken about outsourcing. [9:28] Ken says that the general rule of thumb for him is that if it’s a core business need, then you really want someone internal, or full time… “especially in niche specialities, which is a lot of what we do.”
[11:40] Ken continues: Not only is it important to be forward-thinking in this way for your own business, but it is tremendously helpful to express this to your clients as well.
[14:05] Brad shares that a recent client expressed worry about this and asked if a project would be done by his agency or if it would be outsourced- they have had bad experiences in the past in this way. [15:00] Brad and Ken talk about how it really shouldn’t make a difference who’s doing the work, so long as the client experience is stable and seamless. For example, if they’ve worked with a specific person to establish the projects scope, etc and then are moved to work with a totally different team for execution, the switch can be jolting and not always a seamless experience.
[16:51] Ken mentions that the argument could be said for the other side as well, that because contractors are solely responsible for their own business, and compared to an employee that gets paid either way they may invest more in the project and do a better job.
[18:31] Brad says that even those employees that don’t work directly with the main team should get an invite to team events and functions. [22:13] Bob speaks about companies like Fivver and Upwork being available to help create entire agencies of freelancers. While this may be a quick, somewhat easy and direct way to get employees quickly, attempting to build a lasting company on this strategy is questionable. [22:19] Ken adds that this is definitely not a winning strategy. [22:52] Brad says there is a difference between a contractor that is doing a specific, niche part of a project and will never have face-to-face interaction with the client- versus someone who’s a contractor that has face time with the client and needs to be fully bought into your company culture.
[24:46] Ken switches gears to the dynamics of agencies hiring and working closely with other agencies. Do you keep them behind the scenes or bring them into the picture with the client? How do you communicate that relationship? [25:46] Brad speaks on how Anthem does this. Typically the partner agency doesn’t lead on strategy. He always makes sure the partner agency comes in with a very defined, strong statement of work and a detailed list of deliverables so the client can see everything very clearly. This helps to prevent scope creep, which tends to be worse as more hands reach into the project.
[27:47] Ken speaks on Metacake’s experience of being hired as an Ecommerce specialist. Typically MC leads strategy on this front, bringing in smaller sub contractors for more niche parts of the larger project. [31:27] Bob asks for platforms that have helped with finding contractors. He mentions a private Slack group for Nashville- NashDev.
[33:56] Brad speaks to the level of healthy competition that those platforms create. Quality of work, speed, cost, etc are all wound into the platform algorithm and help to produce high quality candidates with varied skillsets at competitive prices. [36:00] Ken talks about how access to these high-quality creatives allow for more risk taking and new opportunities in projects. The cost is cheaper, the track record and portfolio is right there for you, so why not ask them to try out this project and see where it takes us? [39:11] Bob speaks on the quality of people available on UpWork specifically, and how the algorithm seems to have worked out the nuances of how to promote and reward competition between qualified freelancers.
[41:10] Ken talks about how Metacake uses freelancers from UpWork for smaller animation projects, with the lead designer doing all the art direction and giving feedback. This frees up so much time for other less specialized projects. [44:46] Bob: “The value that we bring as agencies to our clients- what we’re really good at- is the strategy, our knowledge, our background. And that always has to guide the freelancers, and that has to kind of govern where we go…”
[47:47] Ken talks about finding the balance of when it’s appropriate to use a freelancers versus when bringing someone in-house may be more beneficial. [50:50] Brad talks about how important it is to integrate those who will have direct contact with your employees- freelancers who come in for projects often should feel a part of the team and well-integrated when they come in on a project. [53:00] Brad continues “What I found is really valuable for me, the best freelancers are the ones where when I bring them in, there’s a passion for the client and there’s a passion for the end result that is hard to find and that is worth more than anything.”
[55:41] Ken clarifies: “Full time means I have access full time” and it’s important to define those parameters with your internal as well as external team members. | |||
| Ep 34: How do you create a great company culture? With guest Taylor Watt | 19 Aug 2020 | 00:52:09 | |
Summary: Last episode we got to hear our guest, Taylor Watt, discuss her experiences working for various agencies. They have ranged from horrible to great. Today we’re talking about what we can practically do (and what we have done) to create a genuinely great company culture. Different personality types and management styles have to be taken into account along the way. Our guest Taylor Watt shares practical tips from firsthand experience that have created a more balanced work/life relationship for her. We’re discussing how personality impacts performance under pressure, how to strengthen working relationships amidst a changing industry landscape, and what it means to have “work hours” and “non-work hours” when everyone is working from home. Keeping spirits and motivations high when everyone is separated is a tricky balancing act- so today we’re bringing some practical advice for agency and business owners alike.
Top 4 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About Our Guest: Taylor Watt is a Marketing Manager at Metacake, running marketing both strategically for clients as well as Metacake’s internal marketing. She has her hands in many other Metacake projects as well- from writing blogs to content creation to strategy for Metacake’s YouTube channel. She is passionate, kind, funny, and incredible at her job, truly invaluable to the Metacake team- she also has a really cute dog and makes a mean stack of pancakes.
Resources:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:04] Bob gives a brief recap of last week’s episode. “We talked about some of the negative experiences that Taylor had in a larger agency, and then we talked about changing those, and what the culture is that even exists in our own agencies and backgrounds. Today we want to talk about some real practical steps and examples and ways to move forward in a more healthy way.” [1:35] Brad shares that over the last five years or so, he’s been on a journey to creating more health internally within his business. He often feels like if he misses 15 minutes of productivity during the day, he has to make up for it later with time away from family. It’s a big struggle for him as a solo agency owner.
[3:34] Ken adds that its really a question of “What is the best strategy to creating a successful business?” Which is turns out actually means not burning people out. [4:30] Bob asks Taylor for some practical or helpful advice that other agency owners who may be listening could employ. [5:00] Taylor mentions our last episode and again stresses the importance of processes. “Systems are important, accountability. Making sure that every employee with you is set up for success, because if you do your due diligence there, after that, it’s all on them, whether they’re successful or not.”
[6:05] Bob speaks about emotional intelligence and how important it is to know your employee’s personality type, as your feedback may be really encouraging to some but inhibit productivity in others. [7:17] Ken speaks on Metacake’s take on personality types. “We all have personality tests or profiles for everybody. That’s been a fun team activity, but it’s been really helpful.”
[10:43] Taylor suggest creating a sort of questionnaire for new employees to fill out- something that asks them about their ideal work environment, their ideal boss, where their motivation comes from. [12:27] Brad talks about how as agency owner, it can be difficult to give feedback sometimes because things do come off harsh. He speaks on the difficulty he has with presenting criticism in a softer light, and stresses the importance of measuring your words as an agency owner, as those words can carry a lot more weight than you realize.
[15:00] Taylor shares a book she’s read this year, “Click Happy” by Molly Pittman. “At one point she said, especially in this industry, people value and prioritize people that work overly hard… it’s a quick road to burnout and actually a really unintelligent way to go about your business or your work.”
[18:00] Ken speaks on managing that culture at Metacake. While you want to encourage employees who do go above and beyond, ultimately creating an environment where employees can have a reasonable expectation of personal life versus business life is the key.
[20:00] Bob relates this concept to working from home during the Covid-19 pandemic. He asks Taylor how that’s worked for her. [25:07] Taylor says that some people on the team have done well and thrived, while others have really struggled. Personally, she is a people person so it’s been a struggle to maintain energy levels and motivation while working solo.
[31:00] Brad shares that one benefit to working for home for him, although it was struggle to get there, was realizing that by taking a half hour or so to do something other than work, to do something with his hands that maybe was more creatively challenging, helped him show up for meetings and work in a more centered way later on.
[32:45] Ken shares his experience with this topic and plans that Metacake has for their future work.
[33:45] Brad speaks about the importance of systems and being able to trust that ALL of your employees have what they need to follow those systems and do a great job while having the freedom to live their lives as well. [35:05] Ken stresses the importance of this as well, because your business needs to be a system. “It can’t just be a freeform thing... Because it’s not scalable that way… it’s not predictable and consistent. And so how do you create what is seemingly very flexible, but actually very systematic.” [35:37] Brad: “Business runs by processes and people run the processes.” [36:45] Ken shares that managing the mental health side of people’s lives is also important, so Metacake provides an every-other-week one-on-one meeting with both owners to connect and share their working experiences. Creating that human connection on an individual basis is so important to building trust and get real feedback. [40:06] Ken speaks on the challenges of working with a team who is mostly younger and spread apart and away from their families. “How can we create genuine environments where people actually enjoy their work?”
[42:30] Taylor shares how Metacake has broken days up into working remote as a group and getting lunch at new places together. A fun activity like Top Golf during the day followed by lunch and remotely working- also about a year into her job a manager encouraged her to get her nails done and gave her a gift card.
[49:00] Taylor continues- Metacake as a primary team member in charge of planning these sorts of activities, and gets team input as she plans so that everyone is sure to have a good time. Making sure that everybody is interested and engaged together is key! | |||
| Ep 33: Why do People Hate Working for Agencies? With guest Taylor Watt | 12 Aug 2020 | 00:52:09 | |
Summary: Today’s episode we’re diving into the various experiences of Agency culture with guest Taylor Watt, Marketing Manager at Metacake. After changing lanes from teaching to advertising, she began working for a large agency with a long history and big name. The experience wasn’t pleasant, to say the least, and after a tumultuous learning curve she found her place at Metacake. Today we’re talking about Taylor’s experience of working for two totally different companies doing somewhat similar work, the company culture has impacted her performance and life in general.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About Our Guest: Taylor Watt is the Marketing Manager at Metacake, running marketing both strategically for clients as well as Metacake’s internal marketing. She has her hands in every Metacake project- from content creation to strategy for Metacake’s YouTube channel. She is passionate, kind, funny, and incredible at her job, truly invaluable to the Metacake team- she also has a really cute dog and makes a mean stack of pancakes.
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [3:15] The Guys introduce Taylor Watt, Marketing Manager at Metacake. [3:33] Taylor: “I grew up in Nashville, I went to a little Christian college called Lee University… My roommate was in advertising and I was always so envious that her work seemed exciting and more passionate… so I made the switch last minute and spent a little extra time at Lee and got my advertising degree.”
[5:28] Bob asks: “At the big agency, what was the expectation that was going on?” [5:41] Taylor responds: In college, the expectation in advertising is that you’ll get a great job at a big agency, work hard and make big money. Fast paced, working with lots of clients, trendy office setting… those expectations were set and fulfilled by the agency life. [6:30] Brad asks: “What was the first sign that made you say ‘Hey I’m not going to like this?’” [6:37] Taylor: “Well I didin’t really know what to expect, this is the first big girl job that I had, but you’d think that an agency that had been running for decades, that there would be some sort of formal training. There is no formal training.”
[7:45] Brad: “What would happen if you just told them you had to leave? What if you had kids, were they flexible with that?” [7:57] Taylor: “The people with kids would just leave, but I think it’s like if you’re young and single, it’s kind of expected that you’ll stay. I’m very submissive by nature, so I would just keep my head down.” [8:20] Taylor that she had no trouble with trying hard, with working hard. The company didn’t provide laptops, so working late at home wasn’t an option. They offered laptops to check out but the technology was old, no cloud saving or easy access. This made the late night mandatory. [10:00] Brad talks about it’s common for old agencies that have been around for a while to still be doing things the same way they’ve always done them. There is a culture that this is the way things are and they’re not going to change, are not possible to change, because this is the way it’s been for decades. [11:15] Brad asks: “Do you feel like your coworkers had the same experiences?” [11:30] Taylor: “Yes I think everyone else had the same experience and concerns… there were five of us all about the same experience level… I think everybody had the mindset that you just had to prove yourself and eventually work your way up.”
[12:15] Ken: Talks about how working hard and “paying your dues” isn’t necessarily a bad thing- there is a certain amount of experience necessary to be totally trusted. The process of going through fire is an experience and it’s good for you! But poor leadership through that process is what’s messed up and is more dysfunctional than it is intentionally difficult at certain stages. [13:20] Taylor speaks about how a lack of kindness and respect breeds an environment of fear, and that’s not a healthy place for anybody to be. [16:00] Brad discusses his experience as a single owner of his business. It’s challenging to not let the stress and fear of everything falling apart get to you and create more trouble than is necessary. He shares that he once had a boss tell him “Brad, it’s just advertising,” and that has stuck with him through times of stress and steep learning curves. [18:33] Taylor talks about one pitfall at the big agency she worked for- “It was so big and the team is so big and there were no systems and processes.” When things went wrong she was very hard on herself but in reality she was sort of set up for failure and lack of guidance.
[22:30] Brad asks “If you need to take correction from a boss, what is the best way to correct without diminishing your confidence and spirit?”
[37:21] Taylor speaks on receiving criticism or feedback- she always goes to the compliment sandwich. Start with the way they are doing something well, then give the criticism with suggestions on how to improve, and follow up with another soft compliment. That way the employee doesn’t feel attacked or discouraged, but lifted up and respected.
[39:25] Brad: “Is that because you know his heart and you know that no matter what he does, he’s for you?”
[40:38] Bob speaks on how our work does not define us as human beings. This mindset and belief about life creates subtle difference in the way that we interact with each other, and the results of this environment are felt immediately [42:00] The Guys talk about how the biggest pitfall for many agencies is the breakdown in the team relationship- in doing the work, it can be easy to forget the human element, which results in an environment of fear and high pressure with little reward. | |||
| Ep 32: Profitability (Part 2) - What are the systems and processes that help ensure profitability? | 05 Aug 2020 | 00:56:49 | |
Summary: Having an awesome project management system in place is just the beginning- there also have to be processes in place to track every bit of work that your company is doing for it’s clients. You can have all the tools you want, but if no one uses them or people HATE to use them, they won’t ultimately work. Creating an incredible product for your clients that is also profitable for your business means knowing who’s doing what work, how long they’re taking, and staying in a budget. What good is it knowing that a project took 30 extra hours if you don’t find out until 3 weeks later? Today’s we share our thoughts on the systems and processes that we use to ensure our own profitability.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
Resources Mentioned:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:59] Bob introduces this week’s episode. We’re continuing to talk about profitability, because as an agency owner it’s SO important know how you’re making money. [2:45] Ken talks about how difficult it is to manage profitability.
[4:04] Brad speaks about a challenge he’s experienced- estimates are based on the hours that an employee spends on a project, and that can be difficult to track.
[5:33] Brad shares about his experience in tracking billable hours back before the internet took over everything- time sheets were a pain in the butt but then there was new software that got rid of timesheets. Employees hated this because it resulted in micromanagement, and there was huge pushback.
[10:03] Bob asks if Brad has a formula for this- Brad says he always adds between 10 and 30% onto a project to allow for extra work.
[11:39] Brad: “The biggest challenge that we have is not estimating, but scope creep… it’s allowing the client to have flexibility but at the same time making sure that projects don’t go on for too long…” [14:50] Ken stresses the importance of using technology or software that people will actually use and that is user-friendly. The more psychological barriers a person has about using a specific software, the less accurate your numbers are going to be. [15:40] Brad talks about how often hours aren’t tracked in real time, which can lead to a real discontinuity in billing clients. In the past, when time cards were the most popular way to track hours, this was an enormous problem that agencies often wouldn’t find out about until the project was over.
[17:30] Ken: “Billing that way doesn’t work… the worst of both worlds for both sides, right? You don’t know as an agency what your income is going to be, and as a client you can’t project what your bill’s going to be. And so it’s a hard expectation to manage.” [19:33] Ken shares that Metacke uses Basecamp3 to track and manage projects. It has a built-in timer that you activate, then make notes of how you used that time and log those hours, and you’re done.
[21:55] Bob talks about how this accurate information feeds into having more open dialogues with your clients- the client can be very clear on what the hours are and what they’re paying for. [22:55] Brad shares that his company has run into problems before where they have no real scope for a project but the client just wants a quote- it’s hard to give a quote when just figuring out the scope itself will cost the client $10K to begin with.
[26:40] Bob adds that oftentimes, personality type impacts how people keep track of hours. Workflow, communication habits, waves of inspiration, etc all influence how someone may track their productivity. [29:47] Brad speaks about the cost of the sale- “We probably spend about 10% of our profit on each project on just getting the sale. Especially if it’s a brand new client.” [31:33] Bob talks about a template or a formula to get proposals turned around more quickly. Certain things are going to be the same for every proposal. [32:27] Ken shares that Metacake has different “building blocks” for every project or service offering, that are put together with other basic blocks to create an estimate. [35:25] Brad talks about proposal templates, or ways to build out proposals more quickly. [36:24] Ken asks what the most profitable services that The Guys have done over the years, and which are traditionally the ones that tend to lose money or be lower in profitability or harder to maintain/manage. [36:45] Brad: Technology has always been scary, because developing new technology leaves so much room for unexpected things to come up. [37:53] Bob: Managing social media is usually pretty straightforward and can be profitable- the old standby being paid media. [39:17] Brad adds that it is also incredibly difficult to predict profitability when you rely on the client for a lot of information- for example if you’re designing a website for a client it can take 3-6 months depending on the size of the site and the client. And that can be like pulling teeth, waiting for them to give you what you need. [41:00] Bob speaks about Metacake and how Ken’s partner Bob does a great job of keeping clients in line and being a real stickler for details on the front end.
[42:49] Bob shares the software used by a client he’s working with now, a tool called Accelo that is a time management/ project management/ team management tool that works well for them. | |||
| Ep 31: Are you profitable? (Part 1) | 29 Jul 2020 | 00:49:23 | |
Summary: Maintaining a steady profit margin is the key to a healthy, stable business. It’s how you survive in downturns, how you invest in innovation, how you market, and more. The classic model in the agency world revolved around tracking billable hours and racing towards commodification at every turn- today we are opening up about creating profit without losing sight of the human component of your business.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:30] The Guys start the episode talking about a passion of Brad’s- motorcycles. The conversion leads to Brad sharing a new toy of his, the new 2020 iPad Pro, with awesome keyboard features that may finally be an ipad that can double as a laptop. [6:29] Bob segues the conversation towards profitability- “Speaking of Brad’s new toys, all the profit that he’s making his agency… we’re going to talk about profitability today.”
[7:08] Ken: “Agency aside, you want to shoot for four times what you pay somebody in revenue… you kind of want to be north of 23% profit margin shooting for 30% net profit margin in your business.”
[9:45] Brad: “I look at my business as one of the many things in my life that is going to generate revenue… I look at my business as a way to make revenue that I can take and invest in other areas that don’t take as much labor to make 10%.” [12:15] Brad continues: “... it’s all about human resources at the end of the day… in the end it’s the human resources that make that [business] happen.”
[16:00] Ken shares about growth in some agencies he’s spoken with- the growth in linear over time, with the same amount of work being done for the same ratio of money.
[18:45] Brad discusses the importance of building value into your company outside of just the clients you work with- clients come and go, one giant client leaving can result in 50% or more of revenue dropping off. How can you maintain that profitability even through this? VALUE. [21:35] Ken: Speaking to the holistic view that Brad talks about- business model isn’t just about that business, truly a holistic part of his whole life plan.
[24:29] Bob: Talks about the struggle of business owners with walking the fine line between people as commodities inside of your business. Often as you scale, employees become more commodities than people. [25:56] Ken rejects that model of ownership- “If your business is based on humans, and those humans are commoditized.... Then as you go up and down, you’re inevitably not going to be able to retain or attract the thing that you actually sell.... Which is the humans.” [27:17] Ken continues: “Our company… I call it a hybrid agency because there’s agency services that we do but ultimately I’m trying to build a brand that has equity and that has multiple products, one being a service that we give, others being other products… I see our business as a distributor of experience and knowledge.”
[32:30] Brad shares advice for any employee out there listening- make sure you are making the company money and providing value for your presence. If you feel that you could leave and be replaced by someone in 2 weeks without a hiccup, you know you haven’t created any real value for your boss or the team. [39:50] Bob speaks about how often, agencies are selling knowledge more than creativity or execution. [41:21] Bob asks: “Is there a model that you guys follow? How do you track profitability? What are the basics that someone listening can understand?”
[44:34] Brad: Anthem does a few estimates, for the client yes but also for the sake of the team. There is a statement of work that is held to the price to allow for scope creep
[47:00] The Guys speak about tracking hours and how it can impact the psychology of employees to constantly track their own productivity. Next episode will cover this topic! | |||
| Ep 30: Media Buying is Broken (Part 2) - Rethinking the pricing model | 22 Jul 2020 | 00:54:43 | |
Summary: In our last episode we started to unpack the current media buying model and discuss why we believe it’s no longer effective. In this episode we start to practically discuss what a re-engineered advertising model could look like for our agencies. We all know there is no perfect model, but there is a better one. One that takes into account the various platforms skills required, creative refreshes, budgets and more. The way we market has changed in the last 70+ years, with more platforms than ever the service structure of media buying needs to change as well.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [2:26] Bob introduces this week’s episode- Part 2 of Media Buying. We’re talking about pricing, current models, and how to evolve your pricing within the ever-evolving world of digital marketing.
[3:58] Ken: “It’s my opinion that people see ad buying, media buying as a commodity. And so we don’t try to compete on that.”
[5:10] Ken continues: “If we’re talking pricing, we separate out each platform because they’re different, they take different skill sets and there’s different intent.” The purpose of one platform may not be the same as the next, and so your philosophy behind each is going to be different.
[7:42] Ken: Speaks about different clients and the different parts of the process they dip their toes into. “There’s a certain amount that I believe has to come from the brand. So the heart and soul of the message has to be there, whether we do it separately or the brand has it… I don’t think you can just come in and start writing for the brand and have it feel authentic and work.”
[8:58] Ken: “There are certain factors that really drive cost, and reporting is one that no one talks about, but is very important and time consuming.”
[10:12] Brad speaks about the importance of agreeing with your client about which indicators you’re going to work from. Often as you share information, the client will want to know more and you dig into that information and before you know it, you’ve double the hours you originally agreed to spend doing research and not getting paid for that work.
[11:00] Ken speaks about Metacake’s model away from that specific issue- we’re trying to adjust our model based on role.
[14:15] Brad: Some clients at Anthem are still being rebilled after the agency fronts the bill for the media, but they are trying to move away from that, as it is such a high risk.
[17:00] Brad continues: There is a LOT of work done upfront for most clients, a deep understanding of their brand and customers. Educating clients on this process, explaining that ads are just a small part of a strategy (the pitcher in a baseball game, but we need ALL the players to win!) and there is so much more to their growth and customer journey.
[20:25] Brad speaks about how some clients don’t have an appropriate understanding of Customer LTV or Lifetime Value. And if they can’t understand the importance of that, there is a LOT of education ahead of you to work with them and be successful. [20:40] Bob recalls meeting with a local agency recently, and he asked how many of their clients were aware of their customer’s lifetime value. Even decent-sized, older companies still don’t know what a lifelong customer relationship looks like. [22:00] Bob continues: “Logic says, if I put in a dollar, I want at least that or more out… Understanding lifetime value gives you a whole wide range of what success looks like.” [25:49] Brad talks about common blind spots with new brands. “They haven’t priced into their model the cost of customer acquisition properly… let’s say I’m selling widgets for $10. And my cost of goods is $5. They think that they should only spend 20cents to get a customer.”
[29:40] Brad continues: “We do have a minimum, and it does fluctuate… our minimum would definitely be $2K a month but it really does depend on the work and it depends on the short term scope.
[33:11] Bob: “I think it needs to be handled on a case-by-case basis, just as you would the creative, the packaging, the development, the way you treat everything else. [35:34] Ken talks about how your message and advertising needs to be the same across all platforms- but doing this on several platforms is a lot more work. So Metacake charges around $10-$15K a month for these multi-platform, broad scope campaigns.
[38:40] Bob introduces another model we haven’t covered yet- a model where clients don’t pay unless the agency produces. [39:21] Ken’s experience with this model has shown that it requires a LOT of trust on both ends. There needs to be proof of trust for both, and it is more of a partnership than a client-agency relationship. [40:00] Brad: “If my payback is based on their decision that I have no control over, then I’m just a silent investor.” [43:20] Ken: “I think that the mentality, if there’s not maturity around what it takes to take on investment on your company and what it means for someone to be invested in your company, then I think that it’s probably going to be a slippery thing.” [50:56] Ken: “There’s two parts to basic business success- and it’s one, having a great product, but that’s no good if you don’t have a great brand, which inherently means people know about you and care about you.”
| |||
| Ep 29: Media Buying is Broken (Part 1) | 15 Jul 2020 | 00:55:43 | |
Summary: In our coronavirus world, more and more businesses are turning to agencies for digital advertising. But the old model of percent of ad spend has a TON of flaws. It’s misaligned with the client, it doesn’t account for creative creation, creative refreshes, platform differences, and the list goes on. With the core platforms like Facebook being commoditized left and right, there is an increasing need for agencies to communicate their unique value in the equation. In today’s episode we are diving into the broken service model of media buying as we begin to rethink it for our own companies.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:27] Bob introduces today’s episode: media buying. Gives a brief overview of media buying.
[3:18] Brad talks about his experience in traditional advertising.
[7:30] Brad continues: Savvy clients will try to negotiate and “nickel-and-dime” agencies over commission costs. They want to know exactly what it is that you’re doing with that 15%, but so much of what that is used for is difficult to explain and sort of nebulous to the client. [11:00] Ken: “Here’s the challenge I see with buying ads and that being your service offering… I think from the outside that is seen as a commodity…” [12:25] Brad: “I think the media buying for most clients see that as just a commodity task that isn’t creative.” [12:30] Ken: “The challenge is that it’s not a commodity- it’s seen as that. It presents a real challenge, because the question is how do you compete in a commodity market- you compete on price.” [12:47] Bob: “I’m convinced that things become a commodity when things become common and accessible…” Anyone with an internet connection can create and place a Facebook ad right now. That is a commodity. [14:07] Ken: Digital channels are making it easier by the day for anyone to launch those ads and do those kinds of things.
[15:48] Brad speaks about wrestling with this in his own agency. “What does that future look like when it comes to media buying and how should we charge the client for our time and energies for that?” [16:54] Bob talks about how much the purpose of advertising has changed. In the past, everybody was pretty much on the same page. “We’ve got a product to launch, create awareness, and we want people to buy the product.”
[18:30] Brad: “The initial strategy isn’t the heart and soul of your campaign. The heart and soul is tweaking that campaign and measuring the results and continuing to refine that campaign over time to get the best results. It’s the refining that takes time and measure and pitting two campaigns against each other, AB testing and looking at different language and looking at different audiences that are responding better. That’s really the heart and soul.”
[20:11] Ken: “How do you, as an agency, position and create a strategy that does not rely on the nuts and bolts and de-commoditize them as much as possible.” [21:45] Brad: “We try to educate our clients that there is a fee that is going to be an ongoing fee that you’re going to need because it’s not just start it and let it run by itself. There's actually a lot of work that goes into it, and we don’t want to do something for a client that doesn't allow us the money or the resources to be able to do that… because we know that that’s what’s going to get the end result.” [22:57] Ken recalls the last episode, where we talked about the idea of not having enough to create success. Knowing what you need in order to be successful is important. [24:01] Bob summarizes Ken and Brad’s point: “If you still want to do ad buying and you’re struggling with what to do, position yourself either within a niche that you know really really well, OR become an expert in testing and deciphering for the client.”
[25:45] Brad predicts that in the future, there will be other platforms that do what Facebook does. [26:15] Ken talks about how many apps are making it easier than ever to step in a become an expert. They want people to be able to set up an ad and walk away, but for an agency this means building value into the work you do- the daily upkeep of digital marketing is the future!
[30:02] Brad asks: What are the risks of buying media for an agency and where could you eliminate the risks?
[35:07] Bob speaks about how that mindset change is creating need for CRO experts, people who can increase conversion rates by 2%, 10%.... They’re looking for specialists and agencies who can get them across that finish line.
[37:22] Brad speaks about “programmatic marketing.” [37:45] Ken talks about how Metacake is moving away from the traditional media buying model.
[39:47] Brad asks for some insight into what Ken charges initially and what is covered in that cost. There is so much work in the forefront for many companies that has to be done, branding-wise. So that process is built in 100% [43:11] Brad: You can drive a ton of people down a specific funnel, but if the infrastructure isn’t set up it’s like the catcher having a hole in his glove. There are things that need to be resolved and fixed… “Restructuring, redoing their customer journey, refining their ecom platform because it’s confusing.”
[45:10] Ken speaks about how clients will sometimes step into the process and confuse the optimization process- educating away from this tendency is valuable. [46:38] Brad speaks about how many campaigns are based on just getting people to a website or a landing page, but not taking actual action. Knowing the cost of true customer acquisition is important- many clients would not know this because their agency didn’t tell them it was important. [48:05] Ken brings up another point of education: Not every campaign is meant to sell things, some are just focused on awareness. [50:46] Brad talks about the difference between different ads and how important it is to let your clients know what it is that they need and the real work that is involved. [51:32] Bob: “That’s the value that agencies should be bringing- Depending on what your budget is, what is the correct strategy to help you be successful?” [52:01] Ken stresses the importance of educating potential clients of what they actually need to be successful. “What are you trying to do? What stage are you at and what are some of the things around your business…. What budget do you have and what are your expectations?”
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| Ep 28: Working with Other Agencies to Grow Your Business with guest Jon Tsourakis | 08 Jul 2020 | 00:56:04 | |
Summary: We all want new streams of new business, and today’s guest shares how they were able to build a healthy business serving other agencies. We’ve talked about the value of partnerships and collaboration with other agencies as a source of new business before and Oyova is a prime example of that. We also discuss the pros and cons of having business partners. And we get another look at how an agency is dealing with the effects of COVID-19. Tune in as Jon shares his experiences (good and bad) with business partners, talks about the impact that technology has had on his career journey, how Oyova has held up during the last 6 months of extreme disruption, and what he expects of the remainder of 2020.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About our Guest: Jon Tsourakis: President and co-owner of Oyova, a Florida-based, full-service technology and marketing agency. He is the leader of a Mastermind for Digital Agencies and host of “The Climb”, a podcast where agency owners and marketing leaders tune in to get growth tips and strategies for growing their businesses.
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:08] Ken introduces our guest, Jon Tsourakis. President and co-owner of Oyova, a technology and marketing agency. John is in charge of sales and marketing while his partner handles the production and operation of the business. They’re based in St. Petersburg, FL. John also leads a digital mastermind group for agencies. [2:52] Bob asks John to tell us about his agency. [3:01] John responds: There are about 30 people on their team between two offices. They focus predominantly (60%) of their business on development. They also do marketing services for companies that are over $2 million, all shapes and sizes above that. In addition they work with a lot of agencies and help with their overflow work. [3:38] Bob: “Is it full service? Do you specialize in anything specifically?”
[4:20] Ken: “It sounds to me like you are specialized, it’s just not industry specialization… one of your specialties seems to be this relationship with agencies. [4:50] Brad asks if the work they do for other agencies is mostly dev work. [4:58] John responds that 90% of what they do is dev work. “A lot of agencies will have one or two developers on their staff… but that’s just not in their wheelhouse, so we come in a fill that gap.” [6:05] John: “I would say it’s probably 85% of agencies that don’t have a super deep tech bench. They’re very focused and specialized and they have a developer that can wear some other hats…” but ultimately most of them don’t have the experience in development that his agency can add. [6:28] Bob: “I’m curious to know of the agencies that you work with- are they typically traditional older agencies? Are they digital agencies that don’t have the depth? Are they hybrids? What does your client makeup look like?” [6:47] John: “Some of them have just moved away from paper in the last few years and have embraced what the internet is… other are very advanced platinum HubSpot partners that just run into situations that are outside of what they’re great at… there are others that are amazing design agencies that have really good front end developers who run into overflow that they will send to us because they know we can take care of it.”
[7:45] Ken talks about recent episodes about cost and pricing. Oyova serves agencies, and one of the things they have to accommodate for is cost. Agencies are selling at a certain price that you have no control over, so cost has to be below that. “How do you make that model work?” [8:07] Jon responds- cost is definitely a factor. They sell everything in blocks of hours, so the more hours you purchase then the lower your cost will be. Some agencies buy a LOT of hours, just to have access to their team.
[9:26] Brad asks about billing- do they bill the client directly, or do you bill through the parent agency you’re working with?”
[9:55] Bob asks if they have built this model intentionally and whether they aim primarily for agencies or individual clients. [10:09] Jon gives a brief history of how he and his business partner met. It was an accidental discovery at first, they were a marketing agency with two developers, they’d get overflow from other agencies and then after 8 years realized it was a great business model. [11:57] Ken asks Jon for a deeper history of his business relationship with his partner and the pros and cons of that relationship. He also asks about what Jon expects for the next few months within his company. First, Jon’s story. [12:28] Jon: His father was a master carpenter and builder, so he was part of the family business. He met a guy at school that had a marketing company that worked in the healthcare space. He worked with this guy for a while, and in 2009 he decided to start his own agency.
[15:16] Jon continues: “For years, we’ve just been fighting the good fight, trying to be an agency in a world of sameness, create differentiation… a merger sounded like a really good idea based on the technology depth and the strategic advantage of being a strong partner.” [16:13] The guys ask for details about that bad partner relationship.
[17:22] Bob asks for some advice based on those learning experiences. [17:37] Jon: “The direct and gentle communication… he just couldn’t deal with people.” Do business with someone who you wouldn’t mind getting a phone call from on a Saturday morning. You have to LIKE the person you’re working with. [18:12] Ken confirms that concept of direct and gentle communication- even in the face of disrespect in return, you always have to respond in a direct and gentle manner. It’s really about basic respect. [18:40] Brad asks for advice for how to approach things in a direct and gentle way while things are heated or when there is stress in the company. What does that mindset shift look like? [20:13] Brad asks how they manage clients who are very reliant on them, who are more attached than an agency would be.
[22:25] Bob asks about the longest contract they have that an agency brought to them.
[23:06] Brad talks about how the more you’re in bed with technology that drives revenue for your client… “there’s always a fear that you’re going to get canned… because you become a commodity.” [24:32] Brad asks “What kind of stuff do you do in the development world?” [28:00] Ken asks how the last few months have been managed for Jon. What was it like in the beginning of quarantine, what was it like through that process, and how has business gone since then, and if any of these things have changed how they run overall. [29:10] Jon: The theme of 2020 was going to be The Climb, and it turned out to be more true than they thought. They came up with a plan over Zoom, and decided to stay focused on clients, closing business as much as possible. They realized very quickly that their team could definitely perform and provide results from home, and have surprised themselves with their productivity. [31:52] Brad affirms that it’s been hard- and congratulates Jon on their success through Covid. [32:40] Ken: “What area of your business grew? Was it new business or existing business? Is there a difference there?” [34:14] Jon talks about how they were able to extend or increase their marketing packages, they really talked up this being “the time” to invest in online business. If you come to the table with logical, competent people and a plan, you’re set up for the highest chance of success! [36:12] Jon talks about what the next 6 months might look like. “The path forward and the recession is going to be different for everyone. There’s going to be pocket recessions based on specific industries. And some aren’t going to feel it at all.” [37:00] Ken asks how this may change going forward, and what sort of opportunities he might see. [37:12] Jon talks about how the challenge of Covid is actually exciting for him, although he feels guilty about that at times. Business owners have been really lucky over the last 10 years, so now you really get to see what you’re made of.
[38:30] Ken asks “How can you package up what you actually are selling in different ways?” This is something that Metacake has done well through the quarantine. [39:42] Brad asks if there are any new products or service offerings that have come up during Covid for Jon’s company.
[40:20] Brad asks what sort of packages of services other than development Oyova offers. [40:39] Jon: Other than the mastermind group, one event per year that is a collective knowledge base. “I think creating that space for all these agencies to come together and just be open and share and be transparent is important.”
[50:44] Ken: “You’ve built really high quality relationship with agencies that you get a sustainable business model through… how do you do that?” [51:28] JOn: “If you connect with somebody and build relationships that are genuine, you can go a long way.” [52:31] Brad asks about generating new business, and their business development process. [52:38] Jon talks about the three P’s: Positive, Persistent Pressure. If you have the right message and continually follow up with the people on that list, you’ll find them.” [53:27] Brad asks what Jon has done to become a thought leader in his space. “What kinds of things do you do to promote yourself to new clients? | |||
| Ep 127: Processes = Profits | 17 Mar 2023 | 00:43:13 | |
Subtitle: Processes. For many that word sounds boring, but for the wise owner it means profit. It’s one of your best tools to increase your profit. On this week’s episode, the guys dive right in, emphasizing the importance of developing and optimizing processes in business. By streamlining tasks and creating templates, businesses can work more efficiently and achieve better results. The guys also provide practical tips and tools that businesses can use to develop and optimize their processes, helping them to navigate uncertain times and achieve their goals.
Summary: The guys stress that in uncertain times, it's important to figure out how to optimize what you're doing and create less cost while generating more profit. They emphasize that this is why processes are important. Processes can help to standardize operations, streamline tasks, and help teams to work more efficiently. The guys discuss how to get started with developing processes, suggesting that the first step is to document how tasks are currently done. By documenting tasks, businesses can create a foundation for developing SOPs that can be used by all team members. The guys also discuss the importance of seeking an outside perspective when developing processes and systems. The guys then dive into the specifics of how processes and systems can be developed and optimized. They talk about two areas where processes and systems have major value: delivery and product creation. The guys use an analogy of Lego blocks and a menu of items to express the importance of organizing and creating templates for each product or service a business offers. They also discuss how using tools like Monday can help create templates for projects and increase efficiency and organization. Monday is a project management tool that allows businesses to create project templates that can be easily customized and duplicated. The guys emphasize that tools like Monday provide accountability for all team members and clients and ensure that everyone is on the same page. The guys stress the importance of creating a culture that makes data and metrics fun, so that team members are more likely to engage with them. They also discuss the importance of setting goals for the business and using processes and tools to achieve them. By setting goals, businesses can work backward to determine the processes and systems needed to achieve those goals. Finally, the guys discuss how to improve results and charge higher prices by improving processes. They suggest asking how to charge 10 times what a business is currently charging, which can help to identify areas where processes and systems can be improved. By improving processes and delivering better results, businesses can charge more for their products or services.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad: Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:07] Bob asks the guys how they’re doing, launching a discussion about their businesses and the economy in the new year. [5:08] Ken talks about how hard seasons in life and business are necessary in order to grow stronger. “Good times create weak people, weak people create bad times, bad times create strong people, strong people good times.” [6:48] Ken segues into this episode’s topic, processes. “It's always good, especially in these times to figure out how to optimize what you're doing. And if you can create less cost, and create more profit, then you have a better way of producing at a profit. And so that's why processes are important.” [7:32] Brad mentions a quote he’s heard recently that ties into his word for the year and how those things relate to processes. “If you don't know how to put what you're doing into a process, you don't know what you're doing.” [10:21] Bob talks about where to start when looking at how to create and define the sometimes overwhelming processes in your business. “One of the most simple things you can do to get started on this more process oriented and time and resource saving endeavor is to simply document how you do things.” [12:50] Brad discusses the importance of seeking an outside perspective and having one location where you can store every system and process each employee uses. [14:22] Ken talks about two areas where processes and systems have major value; delivery and the actual products. He uses a Lego analogy to express the importance of organizing and creating a template for each product or service you offer. “We want like Lego blocks, or a menu of actual items. And so we don't want to be making new Lego blocks.” [17:23] Brad dives into the specifics about how he and his business utilize his tool, Monday, to create templates for their projects and how it has increased efficiency and organization. “So what we do is we've started templates for our projects. We literally will just drag that project and start a brand new project. It automatically has all the hours for it, and we pretty much know what the cost is. You can tweak it, if there's some nuances and stuff. But then what happens is, the whole project is already set up all the timelines, all we do is we trigger it.” [21:52] Brad discusses how his tool, Monday, has really helped his business because, “it just gives accountability to your customers, it's really accountability for everybody, and clarity.” [24:30] Bob talks about the value and saved time that result from having templatized products. [31:13] Brad says, “you can't hit a target, and you can't see or you can't measure.” [32:35] Bob talks about the importance of creating a culture that makes the data and the metrics fun so that you are able to optimize the processes. “If you can create a culture, you not only make it better for the client and for yourself, and you are able to optimize, but you also catch things quicker.” [36:41] Brad talks about the importance of setting goals for your business and using processes and tools to achieve them. “Let's just dream a little bit? And let's just say we actually are able to meet this goal? How are we going to be able to handle these projects? When, you know, without? How do we do this? How do we manage? Efficient? How do we scale?” [39:51] Brad says that in order for your processes to be successful, you have to plan on them being used by the average person. “There's going to be superstars in your agency who can do projects quicker, get them up on their feet quick. But you have to plan for the average person and their speed.” [41:11] Ken wraps up by asking, “how can we charge 10 times that? Ask yourself that question because then it forces you to the next step to ask, how can we improve the result that it creates?”
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| Ep 27: Let’s Talk Contracts and Terms | 01 Jul 2020 | 01:04:29 | |
Summary: Terms and contracts are overwhelming to begin with. No one wants pages of legal documents, but at the same time clear guidelines are essential to a successful and safe relationship. In some ways this can be the most intimidating part of business ownership, and it’s certainly one of the most important. There is a “traditional” route that advertising agencies have taken in the past, but it doesn’t always work. Most agencies have developed their own terms and contracts based on their unique experiences and services Today we are sharing some of the reasons for the parts included in our own contracts. Ultimately the goal is to build healthy, safe, and successful client relationships that create awesome, long-term business partnerships. From knowing when and how to charge for creative projects, to drawing boundaries for difficult personalities - this episode is packed full of seasoned advice based on our experiences.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [2:25] We discuss Ken’s pizza-making skills (or lack thereof)! While you can’t go wrong with the classic mozzarella and basil pizza, the newest fad at his house is a pizza with arugula on top- how do you like yours? [5:14] Bob introduces today’s topic- Contracts and Terms. [7:00] Ken asks Brad to talk about MSA’s or Masters Service Agreements. [7:30] Brad: Most people in agency business aren’t Masters of Marketing, they came into this business because of their passion for the product and process.
[10:51] Brad talks about a SOW- or statement of work- and what it looks like for his agency.
[12:20] Brad continues, often he feels that providing these two large documents can feel like you’re roping a client into some lengthy legal contract… but ultimately, his agency is a business that needs guardrails in order to run efficiently.
[13:08] Bob clarifies: “So all of those clauses and agreements, they come from experience.” [13:25] Ken affirms this, and encourages other small-medium sized agencies to put up those guardrails for themselves. A giant list of terms isn’t fun to dispense, but it’s necessary and also allows you to lean on character and relationship. [14:12] Brad speaks on the experience of seeing the best in people, hiring clients being a very personal relationship in his agency.
[15:55] Ken speaks on boundaries. They are healthy in every relationship, but especially with clients. Set up an agreement that allows you to handle any situation with any person, regardless of their personality type. Your agreement can also help to filter out people that are not right to work with. [17:26] Bob recalls the idea that you don’t know what you don’t know, so learning is inevitable. Because of this constant learning, there is an ongoing tendency to slowly increase the size of your MSA and SoW. There is incredible value in editing these documents every few years to make sure that every line is still applicable to your mission, vision, brand, and company. [19:35] Brad adds that every SoW that is signed also has a clause where the client agrees with the MSA. Other companies have separate agreements for different clients, either based on project or how much they are spending, and Brad is considering that for his agency. [20:28] Ken talks about how his agency Metacake rarely uses MSA’s. Typically is a SoW and contract. [20:50] Brad adds that some agencies even put their MSA on their website, so that there is no excuse that the client doesn't have access to it. [22:00] Brad shares some interesting experiences with clients in the past.
[25:03] Ken talks about the things that we have control over versus what we do not. “You can’t tie your success to things you don’t have 100% control over.” [26:03] Bob: “If it’s intense, it’s yours. Meaning if there is something that keeps making you angry, even if it’s something another person does that sets you off that creates conflict… it’s something that’s inside of you.”
[27:30] Ken: Often in the course of doing business, you come across people who are working with a great deal of pressure on them. Their intense reaction is theirs, not yours. [28:05] Bob dials it in- “If there is something that seems to be happening with a client or continuing to happen in your agency or with your team, it’s probably something you’ve got to fix internally.” [28:31] Brad says he tries not to talk badly about your clients, as that is a mindset that can fester and have certain poor results. ESPECIALLY as a leader, never talk badly about your clients! [37:30] Bob asks for 3 things an agency needs to cover in their agreement. [37:35] Brad: Scope Creep. Make sure your scope of work, timeline is reasonable and make sure your client agrees. There are changes, delays, etc and one month projects become three month projects. [38:27] Bob adds: Terms of payment- are terms of payment tied to milestones in the project or not? [38:52] Ken talks about taking monthly payments- this means there is no question of why money is being pulled, no misunderstandings of timeline. Time and cost are associated, but ultimately when you sign an agreement for scope, you’re agreeing to payment as well. De-coupling payment from milestones is an enormous thing to overcome.
[41:00] Brad adds: Limit your time based on creative. Somehow, put together a process within your agency- add benchmarks within every part of the project so that is things change later in the process, the client knows they have to pay for those changes. [43:30] Ken: “A lot of agencies just operate fluidly, organically… I would really encourage everyone to think through- what is the formula for success? It’s a process…. Business is systems and processes and people are just there to manage it.”
[46:55] Brad talks about how it may be helpful to write into an agreement that you will review the Statement of Work together again at certain points throughout the project, to maintain expectations.
[57:45] Ken: “I would say you constantly need to revisit it [your MSA], and it is always this balance between it being too much and just enough.”
[58:57] Ken adds another element that should be covered- protections against bad character.
[1:00:49] Brad encourages you to add terms as you deem them necessary and then simply see if clients will agree to sign- and if not, discuss and figure out how to change that language to something that clients are more comfortable with. [1:01:05] Ken: “The more terms there are, the less likely people are to read it… I want them to read everything.” So if you need to refine specifics and reiterate the important parts, do so! Make sure your terms are actually readable.
[1:02:25] Bob adds a final thought: “For a small or medium-sized agency, so much of this is born out of measurement of scope creep and cost. Many agencies may not have a process in place to know these things…” They won’t mind doing a bit of extra work here or there, extra hours or slightly extending the scope, etc.
[1:03:30] Ken mentions the next episode topic: How to measure profitability and what it looks like on a realistic basis.
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| Ep 26: Let’s Expose Pricing | 24 Jun 2020 | 01:08:31 | |
Summary: When we began this podcast, our goal was to share and learn about the questions that many have but few talk about. There may be no more secretive or uncomfortable area among agencies than the topic of pricing. The result of this is many different pricing models, and clients that are comparing apples to oranges. This lack of conversation hurts the entire community. Today we’re breaking down some of those barriers. We are discussing pricing strategies, payment systems, the importance of educating your clients, true hourly cost, and more.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [3:05] Bob asks Brad and Ken about their pricing models. [4:15] Ken: Metacake has 3 basic types of pricing models: Projects, Retainers, BAI (Bill and Incurred)
[6:48] Bob: “Do you try tailor the plan to the client’s needs? Do some clients prefer a fixed rate and do some prefer an hourly rate?” [6:58] Ken: “We try not to because consistency is how we are able to deliver results… many would prefer a fixed rate as much as possible, but the nature is that many things are unknown and it’s important to acknowledge that.” [7:22] Brad reflects on Ken’s philosophy of what matters to have a healthy business. Ken is more apt to try and get the client to work within Metacake’s processes, versus Metacake working within the client’s processes. [8:09] Ken: “Unless you’re healthy as a business, you can’t provide really good services to your clients.”
[10:18] Brad talks about his company spending a lot of time trying to collect money from clients.
[12:00] Ken: “As an agency, you should think about ‘What is the formula that makes us able to deliver this product for the value and the price, efficiently, scalably, in a healthy manner for your business so that you can stay in business.” [12:51] Brad asks if there are situations where maybe a client is willing to commit for a year but only for a reduced rate. [13:25] Ken: For Metacake, they do give a discount on a rate for a longer-term commitment. “If you’re going to really serve somebody, you need the ability to know that you can invest into making sure you get those services.” If you can’t really invest because you don’t have a commitment, how can you do really great work?
[14:50] Bob asks: “What do you feel are some best practices and philosophies that bring you to the table based on your experience on how to price a client and a project?” [15:45] Brad speaks about working in the advertising world back in the day, and remembers how there were built-in measures for overages that clients didn't understand.
[17:43] Ken speaks on deep discovery documents - Metacake tries to avoid them unless they are paid. If they are necessary, they are fit into the first part of the project. [19:01] Brad speaks on Anthem including that brand discovery into the first part of the project, and ensuring that there is deep value in what the client receives. [19:40] Brad mentions how difficult it is to provide an estimate for people on the fly. “Can you give me an estimate for that… we need a website developed, can you give me an estimate for that?” These are difficult questions to answer, but only because there is a distinct lack of information and conversation around budget. [20:15] Bob talks about uncomfortable conversations about pricing with potential clients. Many clients want an “estimate” for work but don’t want to share a budget or much about their needs. There is a “game” mentality for many people, but the reality is that budget will have a deep impact on the offerings from any agency you work with. [21:41] Ken stresses the importance of tracking time spent talking with potential clients and setting up for discovery. [22:37] Bob adds that when he owned an agency, they charged per proposal. “It helped in the sales process… you can pay me and execute this with whoever you want… or you can and continue to work with us.” [24:32] Ken talks about the importance of trust. Building trust allows clients to work with you and open up about honest budgets, and the earlier on you can get to that level of transparency, the more smoothly and efficiently the sales process will go. [26:15] Bob asks for rates! [26:25] Ken: $195 to start, reduced to $175 for longer or larger projects.
[28:30] Brad speaks about how some clients may look at what you charge and attempt to match hiring a freelancer or an in-house person with hiring an agency… “But sometimes they don’t actually do the math of even their own employees of how much it’s actually going to cost them to have that person sit there at their office.” [29:15] Brad: “We charge between $165 and $220 an hour, depending on what we’re doing. We like to get to the point where with all our projects in the end, we’re at around $150 an hour range.”
[30:53] Ken talks about how to combat that. Metacake doesn’t build in a buffer to negotiate on, and that sort of transparency has had good results. [31:45] Ken asks about the guy’s average project price. Metacake‘s is between $30K and $150K. [32:50] Brad says that for Anthem, a short term 3-4 month project needs to be around $50K to make it worth their time. [33:05] Ken speaks about the beauty of having those difficult conversations. In having this specific convo, he is learning more about how Metacake can help potential clients that may not be the best fit- other agencies could be a better fit.
[35:30] Ken and Brad discuss the idea of posting limited pricing information on their websites, just for transparency's sake. Will it actually be enough to entice some? Will it turn others off? [37:15] Ken: “Be aware that if you reduce something to fit into someone’s budget, it has to be successful.”
[39:15] Bob: “The lower you come down on your prices, you are communicating with your prospect what your value is.” [40:40] Brad speaks on building brand equity. “It takes a lot of time and commitment, investment with no real immediate return.”
[44:50] Ken talks about a prevalent misconception of “growth hackers” and marketing shortcuts in the digital space. “You can get the idea that it’s easy, it’s low cost, and I don't’ have to invest anything into it,” but that’s simply not possible.
[45:51] Bob: “There’s just an ignorance… not to be derogatory… they [prospects] don’t know what they don’t know.” [46:45] Brad asks to speak about invoicing and software they use. Anthem typically has net 30 payment terms, or requires that the invoice is paid within 30 days of receiving it.
[50:45] Ken mentions that Metacake doesn’t send invoices, but rather receipts
[53:09] Ken continues: “We try and operate very transparently upfront, we have disciplines that are important to creating success and also to keeping our sanity and we stand by those because that’s very important… we try not to let anyone abuse those… it’s important that clients have those similar values.” [54:00] Ken: MC’s goal is to be an efficient, smart business so that we can be really great partners for our clients.
[56:35] Ken: “The expectation is that what goes on this agreement is not based on deliverables but rather effort because let’s be honest, very rarely have I seen projects where agencies have 100% control of the output deliverables… I think it’s unwise to even suggest that you, as an agency can control that deliverable 100% or that your payment is dependent on it.” [57:33] Brad: Speaks on clients who are not prepared to participate. There is a clause in their agreement that points out charges that a client may get if they are stalling and keeping the process from moving forward.
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| Ep 25: How can you speed up your AR? [Special Events Episode] | 17 Jun 2020 | 00:54:20 | |
Summary: While we certainly don’t have solutions for all the issues we face, we know that we are ALL facing similar issues. So, we discuss them openly as well as our current strategies for dealing with them. One big issue is the slow down in B2B purchasing (i.e. agency services). Most companies just aren’t starting new projects, even in the most thriving industries. The uncertainty has caused a hesitation in the face of thriving business at times. While this certainly won’t last, what can you do to create certainty and close new business? These situations don’t mean that your business has to suffer. We know getting your discussion and sharing is one of the quickest paths to finding solutions. Today’s episode covers several topics as we see how the myriad of current events affect business. We talk products, lead flow, how to speed up accounts receivables, and more.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
Connect with us:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:15] Bob intros new series about current events and how they may or may not apply to everyday life or business. [1:50] Brad speaks about the happenings in his hometown of Detroit in recent weeks. With the BLM movement spurring peaceful and not-so-peaceful protests around the country, he takes a moment to reflect on people around him who are participating. [3:20] Ken talks about the same in his hometown of Queens. “I feel like the world is groaning in a lot of ways, I think you see that with race issues, with Covid-19… There will always be problems, but there will always be good that comes out of these problems.”
[5:31] Bob reflects on the writings of philosopher Phyllis Tickle, who believes that you can see a pattern of massive shifts in civilizations every 500 years, and that’s where we are right now. [6:15] Ken talks about the fundamental foundations of the cycles of life- they exist on long-term, short-term, daily scales. This is a part of the way that we learn more about business as well as life.
[8:23] Brad talks about how that pruning is super painful when it comes to business- letting people go who are not truly in line with your company ethos. [9:05] Bob: “As we’ve been looking at the markets… talking about what does it mean to close deals and stay alive and pivot… there is some counterintuitive growth happening, the markets are up, employment is up… Brad what do you make of that?” [9:57] Brad speaks about how employment numbers are up, which is surprising but comforting. “I think that consumers haven't lost their confidence, mainly because there hasn’t been a big enough pinch yet… extra unemployment runs out in July, so people have the means to survive. If we get enough jobs through the summer, I think we’ll be okay.” [11:32] Bob asks Ken about the numbers from HubSpot. [11:50] Ken: Stresses the reason this podcast was created in the first place- to peel back the veil behind business and agency ownership. Now is as good a time as ever to be really transparent about these things.
[15:17] Bob asks about deals they have worked on or closed in the last month. Were they started before Covid, as a result of Covid, etc? [15:19] Ken responds that most of them are currently a response to Covid. “In our experience, the situation has created an awareness of a problem or an opportunity that they need to go after, so our inquiries have been up.” [16:40] Brad asks what sort of questions people are asking. [17:00] Ken says that many have intuitions or instincts that there is opportunity that they should be going after, and they want to see that through. With the world telling them that they shouldn’t be taking risks, it can be a challenge to get people to act on that intuition. [17:50] Bob adds that there are also a lot of people who realize that ecommerce is important and are just now looking into it, only to realize the expense involved and the work that is required. [18:35] Ken: Speaks about his direct experience talking with companies who have not made the move to fully invest in ecomm- suddenly the “website guy” is the most powerful person in the room and budget is being allocated to them and they don’t want to mess up that opportunity. So there is a lot of trepidation and information-collecting. [19:15] Bob: Asks Ken about how to educate people on the importance of ecommerce and building a strong strategic foundation online. [19:40] Ken talks about Metacake’s 2-part strategy for education.
[21:50] Brad asks what percent of inquiries are new business versus established business. [21:55] Ken responds that it’s a 70/30 split, with 70% being new businesses and 30% being established businesses. [23:30] Ken continues speaking about services vs purpose. It’s so important that businesses aren’t based on the services that you provide, but the value that you’re offering and the purpose that you’re serving. [25:45] Brad speaks about the pain of hearing from a great business that simply can’t afford the services you offer, and how it has become a mission for Anthem to create products that can meet people in whatever level they’re at, whatever they’re able to afford. [26:30] Ken: There’s a big risk as well in making a product affordable. There’s a risk of cheapening the value of what you’re offering if you don’t charge enough. This may result in setting the customer up for not succeeding, which hurts the relationship long-term as well as the business. [28:05] Ken: “There are 3 types of people- my money for me, my money for somebody else, somebody else’s money for me, or somebody’s money for somebody else.”
[29:00] Bob: “It’s better to make the client uncomfortable in the beginning so that you can guarantee success, versus taking what they have and not being sure if you can be successful from that amount.”
[31:03] Brad speaks about being uncomfortable when clients aren’t getting their money’s worth in the services he is offering. Sometimes it is simply best for them to work with a different company, whether that be due to the product or other factors. [31:16] Ken adds that agencies often tend to take on things that they can’t control. “Success is doing what you said you would at a very high level… sometimes that mean you can produce an end result that dramatically affects their business, that’s great.”
[32:40] Bob says that if you don’t get that definition of success clear in the beginning, more than 50% of the time your definition is different from theirs. [33:45] Ken talks about how it takes a really specific personality type to do this well and consistently ingrain it into the relationship. [34:45] Bob: Break that success down into weekly, monthly, yearly increments so that you have built-in benchmarks for measuring that and touching base about it. [35:45] Brad talks about Anthem’s sales philosophy. They do have strong funnels developed for cold calls but most of the business he’s been in has been based on a relationship with another human. More recent leads that have been coming in have not required “game playing” to understand whether they are a good fit or not. [38:57] Brad continues talking about “tire kickers” or potential clients who are asking a lot of questions without taking business seriously. This leads to a lot of investment of time and energy- but recently with the Covid 19 pandemic, there are less tire kickers around. [40:00] Bob asks if there are potential clients who are sitting on contracts and “stalling.” [41:02] Brad talks about the “sticky situation” of having loyal clients that are not able to pay on time during this time. When there is no communication from them even though the relationship is strong, it’s hard to know how to draw that line. [42:25] Ken talks about how ultimately this is a situation that comes down to respect. “We do largely electronic payment, and this is the number one reason why.” Payment scheduled that is agreed upon in advance. “If there is a situation that comes up, let us know.” [45:04] Ken continues: “It benefits both sides when you don’t have to worry about that… it’s a distraction, right? If you’re worrying about how you pay your bills, and you have to go chase people… that’s all a bunch of mental energy and physical energy that you can’t put into your projects.” [48:27] Brad: “We do spend more time than we need to chasing money, and asking and trying to get our invoices paid…” [48:58] Ken talks about invoicing and how the idea of monthly scheduled payments are revolutionary but really shouldn’t be. We don’t walk into restaurants, eat, then tell them to send us an invoice 30 days later.
[50:40] Ken talks about having a mentor tell him that the agency “style” of floating large payments for 30, 60, 90 days at a time is old and outdated- and ultimately people simply couldn’t make their business last. [51:21] Bob chimes in that as your business grows, the danger of that increases. “In today’s volatility… your clients and yourself could be $100K or one $50K invoice away from closing your doors.” [52:05] Ken talks about how it’s not so much a pat on the back but this is a large pain point for so many, and finding a solution at ground-level to prevent that from snowballing out of control has always been priority. “There is old culture and tradition that had to be broken away… simple technology issues… why are agencies not in the 21st century?”
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| Ep 24: How Does Diversity apply to Agency Business? With guest Calvin Nowell | 10 Jun 2020 | 01:05:51 | |
Summary: When we launched our podcast and put together a list of possible guests, Calvin Nowell was part of that list. And today, the timing is perfect in light of the current social tensions. Calvin is a close friend and has worked in the agency world for a while now. Calvin recently started his own agency called, Cmon Creative (during the Covid-19 pandemic too!), and today we talk with him about the story of his start, the struggles he’s seen as a business owner, and his unique perspective as a black man in the agency world. In this episode we’re searching for the good, the opportunities, as we always do. No matter where you stand on the current social issues, education is key if you want to move in a positive direction. Calvin talks about his journey to starting Cmon Creative in April of this year, his experience in advertising, and what agency owners (and individuals) can do TODAY to begin moving towards broader perspectives of reaching an audience.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About our Guest: Calvin Nowell of Cmon Creative is a seasoned marketer, speaker, and niche influencer. He hosts a podcast called Show Up w/ Calvin Nowell which offers advice alongside industry-specific experts to help encourage people to reach their full potential. He’s an overall creative expert who assists in marketing strategies AND is also an accomplished musician, having worked with Grammy-winning artists Stevie Wonder, Tori Kelly, Michael W Smith, and more. He also provides branding, marketing management, and vocal expertise for those artists. We are so pumped to have him on the show today!
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:05] Bob introduces this week’s guest Calvin Nowell. [2:17] Brad welcomes Calvin to the show, speaking about their history of friendship and working together. [2:47] Calvin speaks about his move to Franklin from Cincinnati 18 years ago. He initially wanted to get into working behind the scenes in the music industry, eventually being drawn to singing. Opportunities arose that allowed him to get into artist management, and eventually moved full time into marketing.
[5:15] Brad asks Calvin to explain the meaning behind Cmon Creative and what led him to naming his business. [5:17] Calvin talks about growing up in church in the black community, it’s common to hear people say “C’mon!” when they hear something they are passionate about and connect with. It’s a word of encouragement in his life, regardless of who he’s around, and became very influential in other people’s lives as well.
[8:00] Brad talks about how Calvin has always encouraged him to show up and participate, which is reflected in his use of the term and the name of his company. [8:26] Bob asks about Calvin's business in the time of Covid. [8:44] Calvin talks about how his agency hasn’t been impacted, but his weekend job traveling with Michael W Smith has stopped, obviously.
[9:52] Calvin: “This is an opportunity to reshape culture versus rebrand it.”
[10:54] Calvin speaks on the racial tension that we are experiencing as a disruption as well.
[12:03] Bob says the idea of reshaping sounds different than other buzzwords we’ve heard a lot lately. [13:00] Bob asks what the day to day looks like at Cmon Creative for Calvin. [14:08] Calvin: Cmon is a full-service creative agency, helping clients connect dots strategically. They also dabble in video production, social media, Christian film studio company, non-profits.
[15:58] Calvin speaks on the current opportunity to speak to black voices and stand for them in a new way. He’s struggled himself to be in the business world because of both his skin and his weight- whether intentional or not, the result is that he’s had to create his own thing.
[18:45] Calvin speaks about being a bridge-builder in his community. He goes to a predominantly white church, lives in predominantly white Franklin, TN. He gives examples of not seeing men like him represented in his community, and refers to the recent push to “Diversify or Else.” Ultimately, “Diversity is just better.”
[19:52] Ken asks if there is resistance towards diversity or is it a lack of education around the advantages of diversity. [20:11] Calvin tells a story about a company he applied to work for. He got 4-5 rounds of interviews and was referred by a Sr VP.
[22:53] Calvin says that big ad agencies often try to represent black or people of color but just don’t get it right, because they’re not a truly diverse company. If there were people of color in that meeting, those commercials would represent people with much more compassion and care. [24:15] Bob speaks about unconscious ignorance as well, and his experience with many people just not being aware of their bias. In recent months, the news has become so direct with the message that unconscious ignorance isn’t really an excuse to hide behind anymore.
[24:50] Calvin says that in order to be aware of our own biases, we have to take a look at our lives and businesses and ask who’s missing. In the same way that we value young people for access to social media and expertise in that area, we rely on older people to inform us of taking care of our retirement funds. Why not with race as well? Be intentional about awareness of your bias. [28:00] Ken: Speaks on his experience of growing up in Queens and how that impacted his cultural identity. Truly the issue goes so much deeper than skin color, but sinks into culture and tradition and so much more than just skin color. Recent events have simplified and in many cases oversimplified the issues and are not doing real justice to the socioeconomic implications. [30:00] Calvin recalls conversations with other people of color and realizing how deep colorism goes. Not just racially.
[33:48] Brad asks what sort of advice Calvin might have. [34:07] Calvin: First, look at your team and ask who’s missing. Not necessarily hiring someone right away, but keeping that blind spot on your radar.
[35:29] Ken asks if being part of the “quota” is offensive. [35:35] Calvin says yes but he’ll take it. “You can show people better than you can tell them.”
[38:00] Calvin continues: If anything I hope this episode inspires just one person to say hey maybe we do need to see who’s at the table and make some changes. [40:10] Bob speaks about his black friends who own agencies. They focus on the urban market and people go directly to them when they need that perspective. Bob asks Calvin why they might have zeroed in on that market specifically? [41:01] Calvin responds that they saw an opportunity and created a solution for a need. It’s a default because they know they can fill a need, versus being considered as an option as an agency on equal footing with everyone else.
[45:20] Ken speaks to the similarity between that struggle and others that struggle to have the financial means to be successful, the challenges within both of those to work harder than anyone else and produce at a higher level than anyone else. [48:20] Brad speaks on his desire to be able to walk through life confident in who he is without anything else, just as himself. And says that the world would be such a better place, we would all appreciate each other so much more if we could just let go of those holdups and incorrect beliefs about ourselves.
[50:00] Calvin talks about his lack of encouragement growing up. As a result, he never sang until college and his parents had no idea what talent he had. After therapy and life happening over time, he began to realize that there were other passions and talents he had that were never encouraged either, like his passion for advertising. [51:50] Calvin continues: Brad gave him a chance to see what the industry was like from the inside. He was dreaming of having an agency of his own and simply needed the exposure to the process, so that was an enormous gift for him. [53:50] Calvin talks about the impact Oprah has had on him, and his experience at her 2020 Vision event. She said “I want to encourage you this year to bet on yourself,” and shared her experience bargaining with the co-creators of her show. Their disbelief became leverage for her determination, and it obviously worked in her favor over time. This became his permission to truly step into starting his agency in April 2020. [56:47] Calvin: “We’re all looking for validation, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. We need to accept that… forget the [blm] movement and its intention or whatever, but people are simply asking ‘Do you care? Do I matter?’”
[1:00:00] Ken mentions the quote “Proximity breeds empathy.”
[1:03:05] Calvin: Being intentional is the first step, but you have to be PRESENT in that intentionality. Really allow yourself to see/hear/value that other person or people group. Let them know they are being heard. | |||
| Ep 23: Remote Work - The Future of Agency Life or just a Fad? | 03 Jun 2020 | 00:56:05 | |
Summary: Now that everything everywhere has changed, let’s ask one of the burning questions: do you even need an office anymore? Would that huge expense be better placed elsewhere? Many companies are abandoning the office completely, so what exactly has changed? Why is it ok to not have an office now where it wasn’t 3 months ago? And is fully remote a good thing? Sure, it sounds great to work from the beach everyday, but is that really a reality that is sustainable? Today we debate these questions as we determine the new work conditions of our own agencies. We also discuss another hot topic - what services are ACTUALLY selling right now?
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:45] The Guys talk about the new feelings of slight freedom that we’re starting to experience here in Nashville- though many are still quarantined, there isn’t as much anxiety about being out in the world as there was three months or so ago. [3:00] Brad: “There’s been good and bad during this quarantine… but I don’t want to take for granted the freedom that we have and the ability to just be human.” [3:40] Bob asks Ken about new data from Hubspot. [4:00] Ken: “One of the things I would like to know is what agency services are selling these days? What kind of leads are we getting and… how has that landscape changed?”
[5:56] Brad asks if the guys think that part of that uptick was because of the stimulus checks that were handed out.
[6:46] Bob asks: “Is this rise that we’re seeing… of business coming back going to happen quick enough to coincide with the end of the payroll protection plan, which was 90 days…. 8 weeks from however you got it.”
[8:15] Bob clarifies: “So the question is from the time that that starts to end- the payroll protection plan… to the point where business comes back up… are things going to get better?” [8:31] Brad talks about how many encourage others to buy in the stock market right now, while things are low. But we don’t know how long these benefits are going to last, right now people are getting a little bonus for their unemployment but that won’t last forever.
[10:15] Bob talks about how this type of uncertainty and change will naturally lead to certain industries being more hard-hit than others. For example, the real estate industry is being disrupted and may be in store for even more disruption, as many companies are asking themselves if office space is really necessary for their business.
[11:15] Ken: “I think reexamining the things that you do just because you do them every once in a while is healthy. And I think the way we work is definitely one of those things.” [11:30] Brad talks about how in recent months and years, there has been a natural movement towards more open spaces and allowing employees to come and go as necessary, and this change in style of work has just sped up the process of moving towards mobile and remote work across the board. [13:25] Ken talks about how many agencies have probably felt for a long time that they don’t need an office space, and how there has been social pressure to be ashamed if you don’t have a physical presence- almost as if you’re not a real business until you have an office.
[14:45] Bob talks about how that need to save face exists in other industries as well. New real estate agents are told to not drive a car older than 3 years, because then it would tell the client that you’re selling a lot of houses. [15:30] Ken mentions the mindset shift that has happened recently- that to some, having an office may actually appear wasteful and not a sign of health. Physical office spaces may have offered credibility in the past, but other things have taken the place of that. [16:45] Bob talks about the “phases” of leveling in business- the internet was the first leveling. And now a second leveling is happening and has been expedited. Currently, the focus is more on the work, the message, and the result. [19:19] Brad speaks to this “leveling.”
[21:15] Ken speaks on his experience of having a physical space that isn’t a huge, elaborate office or the standard “wow” factor that many agencies go for. Metacake has a small, 1920’s house that has many original features and is historical. It’s impressive, but not typical, interesting without being imposing. So there is a way to “wow” without being showy or grandiose about your workspace.
[22:45] Bob mentions that although an open workspace is a great idea in theory, “... it doesn’t take into account the uniqueness of every individual. And I think with an open workspace… some people are miserable… some people need to be sequestered. A closed door, need to be in silence. They can’t be interrupted or else they don’t function at a high level.” [23:39] Ken points out that that also depends on the task at hand- more creative tasks sometimes thrive in that co-working environment. [24:17] Brad says that even in his open-air office, most people wear headphones. Doing so is a way to isolate yourself, and tell everyone that you’re busy. Sometimes he wonders if they had their own office, would they be wearing their headphones? [26:05] Ken speaks to the down side to people working from home exclusively- when there is no teaching or mentoring around staying responsible for yourself, keeping a schedule, being disciplined, being taught some of these things can err too much on the side of irresponsibility. [25:55] Brad: “I think great mentorship happens through observing… I don’t know that through Zoom calls I could get that… being in a physical space with them, seeing how they interact with their employees, the way they keep their desk, etc…” [29:00] Ken speaks to the challenges of bringing new people on to the team, and how a new culture of working remotely will bring new challenges to the idea of building team culture and onboarding people to the systems for success that a company already has set in place.
[29:41] Brad talks about how easy it might be to “get lost” and isolate themselves even further from the team… things that go on at home, dynamics that they can’t control… isolation for them might become even more difficult. [30:27] Bob speaks about how giant companies with huge overhead are changing the overhead costs to create team-building for these people. That team-building budget has now been allocated to a weekly or twice-monthly team bonding exercise. [31:49] Brad: “I don’t often feel the need to connect deeply with people… it’s a deficit of my own that struggles because that’s not the case of my team… it doesn’t come naturally as a need or desire to me.” [33:05] Ken talks about how Metacake had been moving towards remote work days and being in relationship with each other even before the pandemic, so now things are moving towards that even more. [34:55] Ken continues: “In some ways, I found that it was easier to make these deeper connections… because you had a reason to ask how someone is doing.”
[37:15] Bob mentions that his wife has talked about new business opportunities for those who can help get home offices organized, get things set up for those who are moving towards remote working. This led to deeper thoughts about new opportunities for services that we can offer our clients. [38:50] Brad talks about employees asking for stipends to support working from home, and expresses that there is some hesitation about the challenge of maneuvering that with employees in the future. [39:25] Ken says that Metacake has been coaching their customers to ask how they can repurpose their knowledge. “You can naturally help with those skills and that provides value.” [41:00] Brad speaks about a live event that had a lot of RSVP’s prior to quarantine happening, so they created solutions to that virtual RSVP problem, which opened the event up virtually to a lot more people, and in turn provided more value that it would have otherwise.
[44:33] Ken talks about new opportunities within other industries to change how you do business. Gives example of an architectural firm running in a very antiquated way, and with the pandemic that has shifted massively, the governing body of that industry has been forced to change.
[47:20] Brad talks about a client who has just recently been forced to pay via ACH instead of a handwritten check, because quarantine makes getting signatures on checks very difficult. Forced change has been great for his company!
[49:30] Ken asks again: What are the services that your clients want? [40:50] Brad responds: There has been a mixture of freezing up with a lack of action, and being overzealous and taking action without thinking things through.
[52:30] Ken: While there are clients who say they don’t know what to do or how to take action, there are more that are looking for specific solutions and thought partners to think through problems that are similar across multiple industries. [54:20] Bob: “The opportunity now is for those of us in an agency who have done ecommerce, who have done social media marketing, who have done branding, who have done digital strategy… there’s going to be a lot of people pop up… and so to be able to separate ourselves and say that we are the experts.” | |||
| Ep 22: How do you stay in an Abundance Mindset during a Recession? | 27 May 2020 | 00:56:20 | |
Summary: In today’s episode, we are digging deep into the idea of maintaining a mindset of abundance when scarcity is all around. Ecommerce is growing steadily every day, products are being sold online at faster rates than ever before. Online sales alone are up 150% - that’s 10 years of growth in just under three months, yet still for most businesses and agencies these times are very difficult. The even harder part is, a scarcity mindset is essentially a slow death and you need to avoid it at all costs. In order to win new business you must be in a winning, abundance mindset. The TRUTH is, clients have more of a need for experienced agencies and specialists than ever. It’s simple - a more complex landscape means expertise is more important. There are actually more opportunities than ever before, but unlocking them isn’t easy and requires changing our thinking. How do you know how to adjust your services for the new normal? How do you convince an uncertain prospect to start a project? Where is the line between “just enough” and “too much” transparency with your team? All of these things are issues that agencies need to wrestle with to survive and grow in the new future, and it starts with the right mindset. Today we dive into how we are dealing with these issues in our businesses. So let’s dive in!
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [2:15] Bob introduces our episode, speaking about the current state of ecommerce, asking Ken what his perspective is from Metacake as an ecommerce-exclusive business. [3:31] Ken: “Ecommerce is sustaining a ton of businesses, and we’re in that industry. The industry is up tremendously… but we still have the same challenges, we’re no different from what others are going through… You’d think business would be through the roof… certain areas are doing really really well, others are struggling.” [4:56] Ken: “The ability to take action is still very hesitant.” [5:05] Brad says he’d be interested in seeing numbers on the companies that have gone online in the last couple months. [5:38] Bob speaks about the forced habits that people have acquired. “No matter how old you are… there’s a good chance that twice as many people in the country are ordering online now, and they’ve been doing it for two months.”
[6:38] Ken speaks to the change in other industries. Brad works with clients in the education space, and those companies have had to change faster than ever before. Where they were hesitant to go online, now it’s a necessity, so change has happened quickly. [7:00] Brad: “For a lot of companies, going online is all or nothing. They have no other choice but to… create online value… That can be challenging.” [7:32] Bob speaks to the importance of value now- being forced to do the same business online and being forced to create the same value and results is a challenge. [8:08] Bob asks about some guidelines to follow to prevent lowering our standards or settling for less. Taking a client that wouldn’t be a great relationship because you need the cash influx, etc. He asks what some of those “fine lines” have been for Ken and Brad, and whether they’ve been tempted to cut those corners. [9:17] Ken responds, speaking about the broader implications of disruption on a large scale. The Metacake team did a lot of talking about the psychology around that and figuring out how to position themselves for not only survival but success. [10:25] Ken speaks about the idea that as you specialize and hone in on what you’re good at, the opportunity for what you can receive gets smaller and smaller. This is healthy, and it’s important to not lose that in adjusting for disruption. [11:21] Guideline 1 from Ken: Do not lose money! Don’t take clients/deals that will result in loss of money, regardless of where you’ve been in the past.
[12:34] Brad speaks about assessing risk. Sometimes clients are more willing to take a bit of a risk and will work with you based on your past work.
[16:20] Brad gives Ken a “for instance” situation. If a client asking for a project right away that was out of the wheelhouse of Metacake’s specialty, but there was a promise of work 6 months from now that is exactly what Metacake does, would you take the work or not? Would that have been different 6 months ago before this happened? [17:00] Ken says they would take it! “If what the client needs is package design through the lens of an experienced ecommerce direct-to-consumer strategy, and we have the skillset to do that, then we would do that.”
[19:10] Ken continues by saying that if a client comes through asking for something that is totally out of Metacake’s wheelhouse, if they don’t think they can truly achieve the end result they would say no.
[21:22] Bob talks about something Ken said in the early episodes of the podcast, that it’s helpful to see challenges as happening “for” you instead of “to” you. That perspective shift is invaluable and SO necessary during this time.
[22:12] Brad talks about a client that is an event planning company. They have had to pivot to becoming an online event company, and now Brad and his team have become very familiar with that and their skillsets have expanded. [23:05] Ken speaks on the difference between forcing something to work versus there being a need where you’re rising to the occasion and fill it because you should. [25:00] Ken talks about how “contactless delivery” is changing the landscape of business. Local pickup options are becoming more and more popular, as the need increases the processes will become perfected.
[26:50] Brad talks about local mom and pop stores in Franklin, TN that have a seamless online delivery/curbside pickup option. “If that service had been available last year, they would have dominated the market.” [27:33] Ken mentions Chick-fil-A and the system for curbside pickup that they developed before the giant disruption from Covid-19.
[29:40] Ken talks about the buildup and preparation that Metacake has done previous to this disruption, and how efforts to diversify internally have paid off now.
[31:20] Brad: If you do decide to take on business that you haven’t necessarily done before, how do you talk to your team about it to get them to see the vision and not get nervous about something they haven’t done before? [31:45] Bob speaks about how you have to cast the vision wholeheartedly- if you don’t believe it, they won’t believe it. [34:01] Brad asks about drawing boundaries between yourself and your employees, how much transparency is too much transparency. Ex: Telling them that if you don’t do well with a particular client, the company will go under.
[36:48] Ken: “The more information good people have, the better they can solve problems.” [37:12] Brad speaks about how times of perceived failure are when he has grown the most and learned the most. Taking on risk may not go as well as you’d like, but be cognizant of what you’ve learned and that is sometimes more valuable than the money. [38:00] Bob talks about looking at things with an abundance mindset versus a scarcity mindset. We have seen directly what happens when a scarcity mindset takes hold.
[40:20] Brad talks about true uncertainty, truly not knowing what choice to make. Often this means making the best of the wrong choice. You have to learn to trust yourself and look at your true track record, accounting for what you’ve learned from mistakes.
[42:30] Ken urges against “following the herd.” If you’re always following the herd, you’re always behind someone else or behind where you need to be to truly be a leader. You’re always stuck asking why you can’t see out ahead of where you’re at.
[44:35] Bob talks about how this is a time for thinking about things that you may have been too fearful to truly assess before. Things like overhead via an office space, working from home, scaling back to smaller versions of what worked before.
[46:00] Brad: “Sometimes the easiest way to make revenue is to cut expenses.” Basic but also necessary. [47:15] Bob asks: “What’s the biggest pivot or change that you’re seeing with some of your clients? Are you seeing your long-term clients making massive changes or are they fearful and inching ahead?” [47:45] Ken speaks on the fear-based mentality that is pervasive for good reason. Those who aren’t succumbing to that fear are obvious.
[49:30] Brad: Existing customers with large businesses probably felt more of a frozen response than other smaller entrepreneurial clients who are more optimistic and energized about finding solutions.
[52:23] Bob talks about how agencies need to start seeing themselves as producers and psychologists. “When it comes to marketing, consumers are smart… and when it comes to media, you’ve got to create it.”
[54:11] Ken talks about how in the past, the client was demanding things from the agency, but these days the agency is the expert and it’s the agency job to educate the client. [55:15] Brad, Ken and Bob give their email addresses, so if you’re looking for an agency to partner with, reach out to them! BAyres AT anthemrepublic.com and ken AT metacake.com and bobwhutchins AT gmail.com | |||
| Ep 21: Finding the Good in the Virus (Part 8): How do you Set and Achieve Objectives in ANY business climate? With Guest, Jay Myers, Co-Founder of Bold Commerce. | 20 May 2020 | 00:56:55 | |
Summary: In today’s episode we have guest Jay Myers, co-founder of Bold Commerce - arguably the world’s largest ecommerce app company. Jay shares some of the secrets that have been key to Bold’s success as well as the method he uses to set and achieve business goals in any climate with a team of over 300 people. His business is a great example of experimentation, listening to the customer, and adjusting until they found their stride. Now he is able to passionately lead a team of over 300 people through the challenges of surviving and thriving in business and in life. Bold was one of the first app companies on Shopify, and is not a key player in the global ecommerce space.
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About our Guest: Jay Myers: Co-founder of Bold Commerce, possibly the the longest-running app company in ecommerce, that provides solutions for the world’s most innovative brands.
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:10] Ken introduces our guest, Jay Myers, a Founder of Bold Commerce. [2:25] Jay thanks Ken for the intro and speaks about the value of teamwork and cooperation in the founding of Bold. He has 3 business partners that all brought unique skillsets and visions to the table, and Bold could have never existed the way it does without all four of them.
[3:53] Ken asks Jay how competitors have impacted him. Jay speaks about how his view about competition has shifted over the years. [5:08] Jay: “When you start focusing on the competition too much, you start drifting into that lane… what you need to focus on is your customers, you need to listen to you customers, there will always be competition and that’s okay.” [5:51] Brad asks Jay to clarify what Bold does and how it is used in ecommerce businesses. [6:00] Jay summarizes his journey to Bold. From an early age he was passionate about online stores (since 1998 when he was 18), eventually moved one to Shopify and noticed their app store.
[7:41] Ken: “Correct me if I’m wrong, Jay but doesn’t Staples run on your checkout right now?” [7:53] Jay speaks about Staples and their price tools engine product that allows dynamic price changes. [9:40] Bob asks for Jay’s perspective of the pandemic and what he’s seeing and predicting for the future. [10:38] Jay talks about how he’s expecting ecommerce to experience a second wave very soon. Prior to the pandemic, global ecommerce was hovering around 17%, and over just the last month it has shifted to 30%. [11:45] Jay speaks about how the internet has impacted local merchants negatively over the last 15 years. When a customer can find a cheaper price for the same item from a factory across the world, that local merchant has lost out on that business.
[15:08] Ken adds that he has had similar thoughts. “That creative problem-solving is what’s going to help you succeed through this.” [17:34] Jay speaks on one example he’s seen: “People are cancelling their subscriptions like crazy, but also people are signing up for subscriptions faster than they ever have…. It’s really brought to light what people value.” [18:13] Ken speaks about how businesses are doing the same thing, they’re shaking up their expense and reprioritizing them. [19:35] Ken asks Jay what his leadership style was prior to this and how that has changed during this crisis. [20:03] Jay speaks about opening their Austin office back in January and how things have changed since then.
[27:45] Brad adds that he thinks companies will realize they don’t need huge buildings and giant parking lots anymore, that they can downsize to half the space and create a more laid back coffee shop vibe for their employees. [28:35] Ken talks about how entertaining the idea of changing has been an interesting process. He talks about Metacake taking on a hybrid schedule is likely, and mentions that there is an enormous benefit to working from home that not many people talk about.
[30:30] Ken continues: “There’s so much benefit that comes from that… mental health, family health… businesses can pioneer without sacrificing anything.” [31:20] Jay mentions OKR, or Objectives and Key Results. It’s a system where you create company-wide objectives that is broken down into smaller objectives each quarter. Each objective has key results, typically a number.
[36:12] Jay speaks more on OKR’s. It is actually more difficult than you’d think to come up with a good objective, because those that are achieving every objective they’ve set for themselves probably haven’t set their sights high enough. [38:24] Ken talks about how setting objectives in this manner can be a cure for shiny object syndrome, or the idea that companies can get into a flurry of directions and make little actual progress. [38:50] Jay: “A lot of companies succeed more because of what they said no to than what they say yes to.” And almost indigestion happens when there are a TON of opportunities or ideas that get backed up. When objectives are set, every opportunity comes along with very quick decision making, because it is easy to ask if any one deal will move the needle on any objectives. [41:49] Brad asks Jay how long it took before Bold was able to build brand equity. [42:13] Jay responds that it took several years and a lot of changes to find their lane and eventually build that equity. They settled on Bold Commerce after many rounds of experimentation.
[50:15] Brad thanks Jay for his time and speaks about how he loves the focus on the customer or client. Even when designing apps to help businesses, there is always a focus on providing the customer with the best value for their money. | |||
| Ep 20: What’s My ROI? | 13 May 2020 | 00:57:51 | |
Summary: ROI is more important now yet harder to measure than ever. Because of the uncertain economic climate, time between spending and making a sale has increased for most businesses. At the same time effort and marketing activities have had to completely change course to adapt. ROI is something every business leader (you and your clients) wants to know for good reason. But unfortunately the answer is not that simple, and we are tempted to sacrifice long term health for short term reward.
In today’s episode we break open the concept of brand value as a return on investment- how building brand equity has a real business case and is just as important (even more) as other activities that may have direct ROI attached to them. It’s important as an agency to have a deep understanding of this concept not only for your clients, but for YOURSELF. Agencies are so-called “brand building experts” yet often their own brand suffers and is perceived as a commodity. When it comes to building a business with a legacy that makes profit and LASTS, we have to find that perfect balance between number crunching and winning the hearts and minds of your customers.
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: How do your clients define success? Is ROI a part of that equation? [0:] Bob: The term ROI means Return on Investment, or the value that we provide to our clients. There is often a void between what we as agency owners value as success and what the client values as success- closing that gap is what we do. [ ] Ken: “ROI is one of those things that you can’t really control as an agency owner- really no one person can control.” [ ] Brad: Often clients see us as their financial advisor- step 1 of that process is asking “What can I expect my return to be.” Sometimes you get clients who have a different idea of success from you, so it’s more difficult to close that gap. [ ] Bob: The agency dilemma- what’s the goal of the company ultimately, and what’s the size of the company. Smaller company means the goals are going to be different, so the expectations of the client is going to be different. [ ] Brad: Startups are often quick-moving, fast-growth companies. They’re blitz scaling, and “putting the plane together while they launch it”- ultimately just looking for short term investments to get them where they need to be and create the “strong financial narrative of growth” that they need.
[ ] Bob asks: How much of an agency's job is it to teach and push a client toward a better understanding of ROI for their business? [ ] Ken: “I think it’s required, even for your own well-being as an agency.”
[ ] Brad: Sometimes you get clients whose product really isn’t being marketed to the correct market. Some companies just don’t put the time or effort into establishing market fit.
[ ] Bob speaks on how often the expectation is that clients don’t really understand the process. [ ] Brad adds that oftentimes the clients don’t understand that there are many perspectives and lenses through which to gauge growth- ROI isn’t the only marker for success. And the less educated a client is about these things, the more work there is at the front end for agencies. [ ] Ken adds: Agencies have to get ROI for every activity that they do- defining the return is important. Sometimes it’s not money or sales.
[ ] Brad: Often there are specific structures within the setup of the business that are barriers to understanding and education. When part of the businesses activity takes place offline- they get bumped to a salesperson- it’s hard to measure the success of specific digital ads, etc. So it’s important to have a place (Hubspot, Salesforce) where you can measure those successes even once the process leaves a digital platform.
[ ] Bob speaks on the “magician” role that some clients expect. Every client, product, demographic is wildly different. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn’t [ ] Ken adds: Many clients are looking for a silver bullet, a quick fix to get their name out there. But ultimately as agency owners, you’re doing that service because you know more about that than the person coming to you. This is our responsibility- do NOT feed them the silver bullet misconception.
[ ] Brad: speaks on the experience of marketing something that there is a lot of excitement and buzz around. “It was so easy to market that product, and it was so fun because there was so much excitement behind it.”
[ ] Ken responds- “So apparently it’s important for them to have a good product Well it turns out it starts with a great product, apparently. And that’s something that you can’t truly control… If you’re working with someone who says I want to get there, you ask okay how bad do you want it? Because the investment that’s required to get there may be more than they have or that they want to invest- money or time.” [ ] Brad: The biggest reason that businesses go out of business is due to capital. In order for you to be the magician that they request, they have to be willing to reframe their mindset.
[ ] Bob asks about brand equity. Scenario, agency comes to the client with: “Well, we may not have hit all the sales goals, but look at all this brand equity that we’ve built.”
[ ] Brad speaks on brand awareness vs desire to purchase. You need both to truly succeed- both are a measure of success.
[ ] Bob adds: “Can you get your potential customer to see themselves in your product?” [ ] Brad speaks on the tribe mindset of becoming a brand fan. The emotional connection to the product is just as important as the product itself.
[ ] Ken: It seems like there is a huge focus on the direct response concept of viral brands and viral products. It’s almost discounting the brand awareness method of building a business. The balance is in between the two. [ ] Brad: It’s an important question to ask, how much human touch does a brand actually have access to? That really impacts the way that you approach the strategy. [ ] Ken: When you compare two business strategies- one company who wants to create a legacy that is around for years and year and years, another wants to capitalize on a craze that will only work for a year or two.
[ ] Bob: “Our job is to measure it and deliver those analytics back to them. How do you guys measure that?” [ ] Brad shares his for a digital business:
[ ] Brad expands: The next step is understanding which messages are driving users deeper into the funnel. UI issues, abandoned cart rates, fallout rates, etc. [ ] Ken shares: On the brand awareness side you’re working on creating emotions in people. How you measure that could be things like engagement on ads, etc. [ ] Brad: “You have to understand that your lens is different from your customer, as much empathy as you want to have for them…” [ ] Bob speaks about a method of measuring brand equity/brand awareness- just keeping track of how many Google searches come up in a month, 2 months, 3 months. If there is an increase, that is evidence of brand awareness increasing. [ ] Ken adds that Google Trends is another way to gain a view of brand awareness.
[ ] Ken highlight 1 Takeaway: Practice what you preach- agencies tend to not do this for themselves, tend to not push to build a brand with awareness and emotion.
[ ] Brad adds: We can help clients refine their product as well, based on this brand equity mindset. We see the front lines, so they need to be listening to our perspective.
| |||
| Ep 19: Finding the Good in the Virus (Part 7): Will doing business actually improve after the initial impact of our economic crisis passes? [2 MONTH CHECK-IN] | 06 May 2020 | 00:50:05 | |
Summary: Today’s episode is Part 8 of our COVID-19 / Corona series, where we’re uncovering the good in the current situation. We’ve had some amazing guests over the weeks and have some amazing ones coming in the next episodes. Today, we sit down to do a 2 month check-in check-in, focusing on questions like: What are we seeing, feeling, and observing in our clients and in our own businesses? What are our takeaways so far? How has it changed people? How has it changed business and marketing? How long will it last? What does the NEW normal look like?
Owning an agency or service business can be a roller coaster of changes and pivots, and now more than ever the value that you can provide is at the forefront. For all businesses, and your clients - every dollar counts. But is that a bad thing? Is there more competition or less because “match” is more important now than ever.
We talk about moving your business away from commoditization and instead focusing on the value of your experience and expertise. How can you provide concrete evidence of that value to clients? And how can you come alongside them as a coach to lean into this period of growth?
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [2:00] Bob introduces the episode with a wrap-up of our Covid episodes so far- we’ve covered how to survive, thrive, diversify. He asks what Brad and Ken think the world will look like, business-wise, after this pandemic. What are we seeing, feeling, observing in our clients and in our own businesses? What are our takeaways? How has it changed people? What is the landscape going to look like and what do we need to consider. [3:20] Ken speaks on the “reset” that is happening amongst his colleagues and within his own business. Having done business through the recession of 2008 and experiencing this as well, the cyclical nature of the economy is very apparent. Two months ago a reset was hard to imagine, with nothing but blue skies on the horizon.
[5:16] Ken: “As painful as a reset is, I think that pullback brings us back to the fundamentals of what is really important, brings us back to human beings, humbles us all- including the marketplace in a way that is advantageous to people that are genuine and businesses who are in it for the right reasons… if you have those qualities it’s easier to connect with people who really need what you have to offer.” [6:03] Brad asks Ken for a picture of what the future looks like as far as engaging in new business/ onboarding. [6:35] Ken: “Agencies tend to fall into the category of all being the same… that makes it easier to be identified by potential clients… But really that’s not what makes you unique, what makes you unique is what will make them choose you.” [7:38] Ken continues: “I believe that there’s gonna be more need to find the right match that gets the right results on the client side AND the agency side, because there’s less room for messing around… even time. Nobody likes spending money and it not work, but now, time is important.”
[9:47] Bob recalls the early 2000’s when digital marketing was new, there is a similar reset. Back then, services were becoming commoditized so that everyone could do them.
[11:33] Bob continues: “People are like, I need an expert now. I need to build and create something that’s going to stand the test of time, that’s going to generate revenue smarter for me, maybe faster. Not with tactics, but with real expertise.”
[12:26] Brad recalls our last podcast guest Daniel Cobb and the analogy he made between being a tool versus the whole toolbox. Many agencies focus on being just a hammer, but he views his agency as the entire toolbox. [13:45] Brad asks for further thoughts from the guys “If you rethink your agency model, do you now hire different people, do you rethink your team?” [14:10] Ken responds that those who are becoming commodities shouldn’t necessarily fight that.
[17:02] Ken continues: “What is your value that you can add regardless of if it’s easy or if it’s hard?” [17:42] Brad speaks about his agency and the way that they do business. They definitely sell commodities but ultimately strategy is the biggest value that they offer. Having a seat the strategy table is vital, otherwise they are taken out by other companies that have commoditized differently/better. [19:02] Brad adds that “If there is an opportunity, I always like to show a monetary return on investment, because if you don’t do that, that's where you become a commoditized business that is being told what to do, versus truly adding value.”
[22:07] Bob adds “Solid case studies and examples are going to be gold.” You’ll have clients asking for proof of that and see it in a document. “It's too easy to claim ownership when campaigns are successful, and it’s too easy to blame other things when it’s not successful.”
[23:45] Brad: “Being a creative agency is great but creativity now is becoming a commodity.”
[25:18] Bob: “I think honesty and authenticity are going to be held to a much higher value.”
[27:41] Ken: “None of us can guarantee results… you don’t own the product, the company, you can’t tell the future… Your job as an agency is to lead in the expertise that you have and challenge the beliefs appropriately so that you get your clients in the right place…. Like a coach. A coach can’t win the game for you, he can’t play for you. He can only stand alongside you with the expertise that he has, help get you ready, help train you… to help you win. But YOU still have to win.” [30:00] Ken continues: “How do you educate based on changing market conditions to be investing in the right things that don't produce immediate ROI but do produce a long term ROI, AND find the short term wins?”
[31:24] Brad expresses curiosity for the next 6 months- will clients be more nitpicky about pricing? Will pricing models change, will we have to go back to the drawing boards? [32:00] Ken speaks on pricing strategy and how moving away from being the “cheapest” model to a value-based model. Hanging your hat on that model for business is not a strategy to long-term growth and survival. [34:45] Bob adds that this ties back into the concept of having a “why” that is deeper and more valuable than just earning money.
[37:50] Bob speaks about how to survive through this: “Being an expert, showing we’ve done it before, caring about ROI above everything… and it’s really important to lead with value and why we’re doing it, and having strong philosophies.” [40:00] Ken talks about the other side of making those pivots and truly surviving through this: “On the other side of that now you’ve got a really distilled idea of who you are and why you’re so valuable… through that, it’s easier to sell.”
[40:55] Ken quotes Tony Robbins: “To succeed in business, it’s pretty simple. You just need to provide more value than anyone else.” This is relevant to today more than ever, and doesn’t necessarily mean adding more time or cost, but instead asking yourself “How can I create the most valuable offering in the most efficient way.” [42:16] Bob predicts that laying people off may bring more efficient business practices internally. Letting go of 4 or 5 employees may be more efficient than hiring an outside partner to help with those services.
[43:40] Brad adds: “This will be an opportunity for clients to shop around… as we’re rethinking our businesses, customers are rethinking what they need… you may have a lot more customers who are looking for long term partners.” [45:05] Ken speaks on the power of not only weathering the storm, but looking for the opportunities to thrive through it. “It won’t go back to the way it was, it’s going to go forward to something new… noone knows what that is… everyone’s at the starting line again. In some ways, it has re-leveled the playing field, creating advantages that people didn’t have before.” [46:29] Brad: “Customers are going to look for companies who can support them… not those who are outsourcing pieces of the pie, but a well-oiled machine that can take them on.”
[48:15] Bob adds that ultimately, none of us know for sure. Nothing will be the same, things have shaken out the way they need to and ultimately there are a lot of opportunities for those businesses that are thinking about bringing value and expertise. This is a great time to be learning, a great time to start with a high level of value and knowledge instead of just trying to be the cheapest commodity and grab business where you can. | |||
| Ep 18: Finding the Good in the Virus (Part 6): What are the Fundamental Rules that will get your Agency through Any Crisis? With guest Daniel Cobb, founder of The Daniel Brian Agency. | 29 Apr 2020 | 00:53:46 | |
Summary: Ever wish you could pick the brain of an industry leader who has been around a lot longer than you, has had a lot more success than you, has been down your road before, and is willing to share it all with you? Yeah, we did too. So we reached out to Daniel Brian Cobb, the founder of The Daniel Brian Agency. Dan’s agency has won more than 21 Emmy’s, advises clients like Papa John’s and Disney, is a respected author, and has been leading and growing his business and clients for over 30 years.
Daniel has seen it all from the 2008 financial crisis to the current 2020 COVID-19 recession. Daniel is one of the voices that large brands go to for advice in times of crisis. He’s an amazing agency leader and God-given innovator.
Daniel shares it all today. We discuss how he’s leading his clients and agency through this crisis, and the next wave of change that is coming.
And just like the rest of us, Daniel’s business isn’t immune to the current crisis. In the first 24hrs of the Coronavirus shut down his agency lost $1M in business. We talk about how he dealt with disappointments like this and how he’s actually gained more business through this time. There is always HOPE and Dan walks us through finding it.
This is an episode you want to listen to with your notepad ready (or just use our notes below:).
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About our Guest: Dan Cobb: Founder of the Daniel Brian Agency (DBA), author of Surfing the Black Wave and 30+ year industry veteran. DBA specializes in innovative and measurable advertising campaigns to engage families via retail, healthcare, digital TV, family entertainment, and sporting goods. Dan has worked with brands like Papa Johns, Henry Ford Health Systems, and Chick-fil-A to provide creative connections with local communities. Connect with Dan:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:24] Brad introduces our guest Dan Cobb.
[3:44] Dan tells us about his clients and the type of work he does. “We started with two types of clients. We started in healthcare and pizza. First two clients, Henry Ford health system, and Domino’s pizza.”
[4:56] Dan continues: “In doing that over the years, what we’ve learned is that connection happens in the community, connections happens through values… That’s great to have a pizza on sale, a $5 hot and ready, but you can beat that with a $7 pizza that cares.”
[5:53] Brad reflects on first meeting Dan years ago. He recalls that Dan had a very clear vision that had nothing to do with advertising. Brad asks Dan what that “Why” core value system looks like these days. [7:22] Dan responds: “Many of us started with writing or artistic or musical skills, and it kind of drove us into this industry, which gave us a way to compensate those skills… for me it went back to when I was a kid. I was sitting on the couch watching tv… mom walks into the room and says turn that off, that’s bad for you. Go out and do something good for you. And it was that moment… it was this though, Why does it have to be bad for me? Why does this content, this entertainment, this advertising have to be bad for me? Maybe I can make that change.” [8:10] He recalls Nike’s “Just Do It” campaign impacting him strongly. As a runner, he found himself truly inspired by the commercials that he’d seen. “It inspired me to be a better runner, to be a better person, overcome the pain in my life, and just take on the challenges… why can’t advertising always do that type of thing?” [8:35] Dan: “So we started building a model around that… we call it Better Brands for a Better Human Condition. So we put everything we do through that filter: Is what we’re doing building a better brand for a better human condition?”
[10:01] Ken speaks about how advertising has had a “churn and burn” kind of experience in the past. Not having come from advertising, he’s had a different experience of the work. [11:37] Ken continues: “We focused on how do we create a business that is different and the purpose is really not the product we put out. It’s the message that we stand for… How do we do things like create a staff environment that’s not continually expanding and contracting- literal financial stability that is not necessarily dependent on any one particular client..” [12:37] Dan interjects- “We hear about flattening the curve right now- we’ve been flattening the curve our entire careers!”
[12:56] Dan: “So we now have been thinking through how do we flatten that curve so that through the course of the year, it’s fairly level… you have a few peaks, but it’s not all spikes and then drop offs. Managing that is really about managing a client… getting them on course and managing their calendar, building out longterm plans… looking for the kinds of clients who marry, who don’t date around.”
[13:46] Brad speaks about a common theme here on Agency Exposed: “Are our businesses just a commodity or do we have a value that is unique enough that we’re not on that list of customers that are going to go and burn out agencies… our business has struggled because some of our offerings are commodities and others are not.”
[15:04] Bob segues into Dan’s book and the principles that he talks about. “Can you talk a little bit about that and maybe contextualize it for what’s going on right now. This whole idea that everything becomes commoditized… if it’s a new technology, new knowledge base, people start to learn it, more people start to learn it and it becomes a commodity… so what digital marketing was 15 years ago you can now pay $5 for someone to do it.”
[16:33] Bob: “It almost feels like the tide is going back out again… what are you seeing in the context of what you write about in that kind of tsunami, black wave metaphor.” [16:47] Dan reflects on his childhood proclivity for invention. “My grandfather was an inventor and he taught me a lot about how inventors think.”
[17:54] Dan speaks about the Third Wave Model based on a tsunami metaphor.
[18:31] Dan says “I believe we’re in the same place. We’re all spectators watching social media saying ‘Well, that’s over, Facebook won, Zuckerberg had the final say’ but there is another shift coming because there’s a mindset shift that took place over the first two waves. The mindset shift came in and said ‘It’s no longer the big three, the big five, whatever the number is in any particular industry to control everything.’”
[20:00] Dan talks about how it is no longer the focus to make one company the BIGGEST around, that model is outdated and useless in this day and age. [20:36] “Eventually that model is going to break, well all of them are breaking… It’s better when Daniel Brian meets three other guys who have specific skills that I don’t have, and we intertwine our relationships and build out towards something bigger to serve a bigger population. The participation age is about collaboration and smaller units of power. Getting more access and creating a greater weight than any one big organization could ever create.” [21:04] Brad asks what Dan’s suggestions would be for business owners to position themselves for this next wave. [21:18] Dan responds:
[22:45] Ken agrees with Dan and recalls that that is the reason that Agency Exposed exists. In advertising things tend to be secretive and closed-off from collaboration, everything is a competition and so we tend to be closed off in disclosing what we’re ACTUALLY really good at versus what we say we are really good at. [24:15] Ken adds: “we often say collaboration over isolation… there’s a balance between saying you can do everything and being specialized.” [24:47] Dan: “It’s about vertical integration… your best new business is your current business.” When a client talks about how they want to explore a new solution, tell them you can figure it out for them.
[28:04] Bob asks: “What are some lessons you’ve used over 30 years that you could offer to some agency owners right now?” [29:07] Dan responds: “Own the media, it is our future, it is the Black Wave.”
[32:24] Bob asks for practical advice for agency owners. [32:37] Dan: “Marketing automation… building around your CRM platform.” [33:39] Brad asks: “What are some ways during Covid-19 that you’ve had to help your customers pivot?” [34:06] Dan says “Don’t look at it as a negative.” He gives the example of Papa John’s sales being up to Superbowl numbers. “And so rather than just start to gouge the customer we tried to say how do we endear our customer and connect to them during this time.”
[36:14] Dan continues: “So now’s the time for us to engage our communities with messages of hope. The future. Finding ways for our health systems to engage people and say, we have a model for getting virtual care because people are afraid to go to the hospital so they’re not getting their care.”
[37:05] Brad asks how he is personally staying “up” in all the chaos and working from home. [37:25] Dan: “I’ve been following the stats and trying to be very very informative with them of where I think things are at, telling them about their future. A lot about where we’re going to be… how we’re using this to leverage on Covid marketing. We’re doing a lot of Covid campaigns so we’ve actually seen an increase in our business during this.”
[38:35] Ken asks for elaboration on 2 points. Do you see this changing the way you guys do business? How so? You mentioned that some business has increased- how has that happened and how have you positioned yourself to not be an opportunist in that place, but actually increase your ability to sell well? [39:08] Dan: “I’d be cautious to say that my business has increased… The first moment of the crisis… it took us less than 24 hours to lose a million dollars in contracts.”
[41:15] Ken speaks on the shock of losing that much money in 24 hours. “How’d you lead your company through that? How did you take action without freaking out inside?” [41:30] Dan: “Well first I didn’t take action without freaking. I freaked out… for me it’s a faith thing… once I got past that point, I got to my center.”
[43:08] Ken: “As far as opportunities now, as our entire population shifts, how does this shift your business? You talked about the next wave being owned channels… how are you adjusting?” [43:15] Dan: Hospitals without an address are what will win. Telehealth solutions are the next frontier. “Whoever owns that particular market will dominate the market because it’ll be your first call…” [44:38] Ken asks about the same but for Dan’s agency specifically. [44:41] Dan: “Our own media platform is… we’re starting to do a lot more of things like this, content that’s going out to our clients.”
[45:44] Bob asks for advice for young solo-preneurs. As the trend of a solo model is becoming more and more popular and talent and resources are being outsourced more and more, what kind of advice can he give to people in the early stages of business? [46:17] Dan: “A lot of the things that I accidentally did when I started DBA.”
[47:20] Bob asks how to scale this. [47:22] Dan: “I’ll tell you when I get there!” Working in this way has allowed him between 5 and 10M in revenue regularly, but getting beyond that is the challenge. [48:45] Brad asks: “How much approximately of your revenue do you spend on specifically reinventing your company, to move your company to the next wave?” [49:00] Dan: “Great question. Critical question. I nearly killed my company three times by missing the point of this question.”
[51:20] Bob asks Dan for info on his book and website. | |||
| Ep 125: What is your success theme for 2023? | 17 Feb 2023 | 00:51:09 | |
Subtitle: How’s 2023 going so far? We start every year with successful themes and words; not resolutions. Approximately 80 percent of those who set New Year’s Resolutions give up at the beginning of February. This is why we at Agency Exposed believe that choosing a word to guide your year and give you something to focus on is a better way to achieve change and grow. In this week’s episode, we break down our themes for this year, our themes from last year, and AI.
Summary: On this week's episode the guys break down their words from last year, their words for 2023, and AI. Ken explains the reasoning behind choosing a word or a theme for a year instead of having resolutions. He quotes basketball coach Tim Grover, stating that "The difference between winners and losers is that winners value the process of winning, and losers, only value the result." He emphasizes the importance of valuing the journey and not just the end goal. Bob then asks the guys to reflect on their words from the previous year, and how they put them into practice. Ken talks about his word from last year, leverage, and how it helped him to understand that by loosening his grip, he can achieve more. He also explains how he views his past words as building blocks and tools to continue to change and grow. Brad talks about his phrase for last year, more fun, and how it helped him to focus on doing more things that bring him joy and laughter. He also shares a conversation he had with his dad that inspired his word, where his dad regretted working too much and not spending enough time with his family. Bob shares his word for the previous year, simplify, and how it helped him to realize that the biggest journeys and adventures are not somewhere out there to conquer, but with the people he does life with. He also talks about his new business that he is launching and how he believes that collaboration is greater than competition. Ken shares his word for this year, belief, and how it has been unpacked for him in so many different ways. He emphasizes that the greatest human superpower is expectation, which is closely related to belief, and that if you change what you expect, you get what you expect, and not what you deserve. Brad talks about the process he used to arrive at his word for this year, transparency, and how he believes it applies not only to business but also to his personal life. He also talks about how he's been testing and using AI and how it's helped him and his business. Bob joins the conversation and talks about the importance of recognizing the things that AI succeeds at and the things that humans succeed at, and how to utilize them to our advantage. He concludes the episode by emphasizing the importance of creating value around our creativity and ideation, as well as our people and services.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad: Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:39] Bob opens this week’s episode by introducing this episode’s topic, the guys’ words for 2023. [2:48] Ken talks about the reasoning behind choosing a word or a theme for a year instead of having resolutions. [5:05] Ken talks about a quote from basketball coach Tim Grover and applies it to setting goals. “The difference between winners and losers is that winners value the process of winning, and losers, only value the result.” [7:37] Bob asks the guys to break down their words from last year. “Why don't we talk about our words last year, briefly talk about what the experience was.. And how you live that out.” [8:18] Ken talks about his word from last year, leverage. “You can lift more if you loosen your grip.” [10:04] Ken your multiplier is someone who spends their time on something that actually makes more time in the future. It's like an investment. [15:40] Ken says that he views his past words as building blocks and tools to continue to change. [16:23] Brad talks about his phrase for this past year, more fun. “I live with the goal of doing more stuff. But it's always for return on investment. And I realized that I'm best when I'm laughing.” [20:29] Brad talks about a discussion he had with his dad that inspired his word and created a shift in his perspective. “I asked my dad, what is the one thing in life that you regret? And he said, "I regret working so much, because I wasn't around my family as much.” [21:25] Bob talks about his word for last year, simplify. [24:51] Bob opens with his word for this year, collaborate and talks about his new business that he is launching. “I know that collaboration is greater than competition.” [27:32] Ken talks about his word for this year, belief. “Over the last year, that word keeps coming up in my life, and in different ways. And it's been unpacked, for me, in so many different ways… the greatest human superpower is expectation, which you can say is basically a synonym of belief. But basically if you change what you expect, you get what you expect. You get what you believe you don't get what you deserve, you get what you believe.” [32:13] Brad talks about the process he used to get to his word, transparency. “So first I, my word was clarity. I'm going to choose a different word. While clarity is the understanding of something, transparency is being able to see it as well.” [33:45] Brad digs into the idea of transparency and authenticity and how it not only applies to business but also to his personal life. [37:09] Ken starts a discussion about AI and how it is being used today. [38:09] Brad talks about the ways he’s been testing and using AI and how it’s helped him and his business. “And so I will tell, I will kind of craft the initial idea of what I want. And they'll just ask it to refine, refine, refine, refine, refine, and then I'll say, Give me three alternatives to that. And it'll give you ideas.” [42:25] Bob talks about the importance of recognizing the things that AI succeeds at and the things that humans succeed at, and utilizing those to your advantage. [49:36] Bob wraps up this episode by saying, “you need to create value around your creativity and your ideation versus your people and your services.”
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| Ep 17: Finding the Good in the Virus (Part 5): How do you sell your services and market your business during the Coronavirus pandemic? | 22 Apr 2020 | 00:57:36 | |
Summary: More than ever, uncertainty from economic conditions caused by Coronavirus/COVID-19 has many businesses frozen in fear. Some for good reason, and others irrationally. Today we are breaking down those obstacles to taking action and sharing how we’re trying to “un-freezing” current and potential. We’re also talking about how we are marketing our own services in this time. Although there is enormous uncertainty- there is also enormous opportunity for Agency leaders to lean into their expertise, reestablish their passion, provide a unique perspective of experience for their customers, and train their eyes on the future. Let’s dive in!
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [4:00] We reflect on the reality of our new way of life. One positive side effect is that people are becoming more gracious, forgiving, and sensitive to others’ experience. We see tv stars and news casters in their home with their children, we see the behind the scenes of things that are usually very produced. This is going to impact the way that all productions are executed in the future, even after Covid-19 is over. [4:45] Bob speaks about this week’s guest: “Her words were ‘This is going to change how we do business going forward in that they’ve always allowed someone to work from home a couple of days a week, but she said they are seeing such high productivity out of their team during this time there’s very little distraction, for the most part.” [6:25] Ken adds that some businesses probably are realizing that their big expensive office building may not be a necessity, which is great. But also there are people whose personality type is not’ conducive to self-isolation. And there is suffering in that for some people.
[7:15] Bob: “Well that’s a perfect segue really… we’re talking about productivity when it comes to sales… how to thrive in this time, how to reinvent, re-imagine yourself. How are you guys doing with existing clients?” [8:07] Brad speaks on the struggle of filling up your sales pipeline during this time. “We probably won’t see the effect of that for 3, 4, 5 months. Typically in our sales cycle, onboarding a new client typically two, three, four, five months. And leads that we did have put things on hold. They may start back up again, but there’s a lot of uncertainty right now.”
[11:00] Brad: “All this time has created a lot of thought patterns- people think about their businesses deeper, they think about their values. They reinvent themselves at this point… so they might have a lot of great ideas.”
[12:31] Ken: “The idea of serving current clients and making that successful then finding new business that you company needs to thrive- you need to run on both. That’s the challenge,” and it applies to every day business life, not just this situation that we’re currently living.
[14:37] Ken: “Some of our clients are struggling because of certain fears and certain threats to how they do business right now. But I don’t think it’s going to last for too long.”
[15:45] Ken continues: “So helping people make the right decisions has been our sales strategy now more than ever, but it’s become really clear for us… speaking those words, helping people make the right decision, we’re starting to see that freeze mode loosen up a bit.” [18:45] Bob adds: “I’ve noticed with some companies that March started off with a strong dive- specifically ecommerce businesses, and now that’s actually going up because I think… people are stuck inside and their only way to connect, research, buy, to have any contact with their outside world through the internet and ecommerce.” [20:25] Brad chimes in: “There’ll be some new companies in the next three or four months hopefully that will convert the way they do business. And they’ll be looking for companies like us to work with… so that’s kind of where I’m looking.”
[22:08] Ken: “Internet usage as a whole is up 35% right now... and there is a new focus on education in a new way.” First of all, because kids are being educated at home but also because there is a pressing need for some to make sure that their role is invaluable- some are getting education because they’re switching industries after getting laid off. So it would make sense that some industries are thriving now- education is incredibly valuable right now.
[24:48] Bob speaks on the question of purpose and how this is a valuable time to start re-assessing your answers to those questions.
[29:45] Ken speaks on the importance of noting the difference between your “what” and your “why”.
[34:00] Brad speaks on working with legacy companies that have been around for a hundred years or more. They survive not by doing the same business for a hundred years, but by keeping their ‘Why’ at the top of mind. When their why is strong, the what can shift and change over time, and that means longevity and success. [36:25] Brad talks about how the companies that do the best have a strong why- “A company doing their job just because it’s work will never be able to compete with a company or business owner or employees that understand WHY.” [41:00] Bob: “One of the things I’ve said for years… it doesn’t apply to every agency owner… you need to start seeing yourself as a media company because what you do is you create and produce, you enhance and market media… it’s all pixels, it’s content, it’s helping clients tell their story.”
[44:35] Brad speaks on the desire to create contentment in change for himself. Reaching a point where you’re comfortable enough with change that you can pivot quickly. Learning to be more flexible and allow the customers to own more of the decisions.
[46:30] Ken talks about how before this happened, many would have thought that working from home was an impossibility, but within just three or four weeks that has been proven untrue. We can adapt and adjust, so now it’s a matter of “challenging norms that we would usually take for granted.”
[49:55] Bob: “If you are relying on one channel that you don’t own or that you don’t have control over, then you are just waiting for disaster… A good exercise for anyone during this time is what are the sources of traffic and revenue… Could I survive without it? And if I couldn’t… start to diversify and be like… okay we’ve got Facebook nailed. Now let’s figure out how to do the same thing on Google.” [52:15] Ken talks about the technology/delivery model of Fast Food giant Chick-fil-A and their online delivery system and app technology for online ordering.
[55:00] Brad tells us about his upcoming webinar: “We’re doing a 60-minute webinar about 3 topics: how to protect your financial viability, how to use this time to strengthen your brand, and we’re going to look at case studies of how companies have reinvented themselves in the past through different challenges in society.” | |||
| Ep 16: Finding the Good in the Virus (Part 4): The Power of Pause with guest Curtis Zackery | 15 Apr 2020 | 01:10:03 | |
Summary: For most people, especially achievers, the idea of being forcefully shut down and locked home because of Coronavirus sounds like a nightmare. But what if it was actually a gift? An opportunity? How long has it been since you’ve had time in your calendar? How long has it been since you’ve seen the end of your todo list? We all like the idea of rest, but we’re oversubscribed in every way. Many of us were on a treadmill and had no way of getting off. Today, we’re discussing the POWER of PAUSE a.k.a. Rest with world-renowned author, speaker, and advisor to leaders of organizations across the globe, Curtis Zachery. CZ spends his life helping people find rhythms of rest that produce more joyful and effective lives. You may see that as boring, lazy and self-indulgent. Maybe you see it as a luxury of the elite. This couldn’t be farther from the truth. You can only give from a place of being filled. Rest is actually an activity, and it’s one that when used correctly produces real success and is even a true revenue driver.
The world is experiencing a pause in it’s day-to-day activities right now- on a scale that none of us have seen before. There is disruption at every turn, distraction from tasks and a deep desire to not squander this time that we have right now. So often we walk through life thinking “If only I had more time to rest, more time to spend with my family, more time to complete this personal project, more time to recharge…” Many of us have more time than we know what to do with these days! So how do we make the most of it? Today’s episode will be a deep dive into the power of proper rest and highlight the importance of taking advantage of this opportunity to reset our priorities.
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About our Guest:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:23] Bob introduces this week’s guest Curtis Zackery, author of The Power of Rest, and asks The Guys how their week has been and how they’ve been holding up through the self-isolation period. [1:02] Brad says he is focusing on the day by day. “I try to focus on today and let tomorrow have it’s own way.” [1:30] Ken adds that this episode is being recorded via Zoom call.
[7:03] Bob asks Curtis for his perspective. Curtis speaks on the differing perspectives that people have of this time. Realities are different for everyone, and although it’s obvious, it’s important to recognize and acknowledge that fact.
[10:00] Curtis adds that even prior to all of this, there was incredible burnout in every part of business. Everyone is usually hoping for some time away, time to relax. But now that it’s being forced upon us, it changes the way that we respond. [11:08] Brad asks Curtis, why do you think it is that I cannot reach this point of rest without feeling guilt? What are some practical tips for sorting through all of the emotions? [12:15] CZ responds:
[13:30] People are realizing that this previous understanding of productivity or identity is a challenge against the way we feel about ourselves during this time. [14:45] CZ continues: “We’ve equated rest and laziness, and that is just not true…. Rest and leisure are not the same thing either!” [17:00] “With intentionality inside of our rest, we are going to become more productive.”
[18:10] Ken adds: Principles that produce really great results are counter cultural/ counter intuitive.
[21:15] Brad: “Because I’m not going a mile a minute, I feel way more present- my mind is present more because I don’t have a running to do list of places to go and things to get done in between working.”
[22:40] CZ adds: “Another misnomer is busy-ness benign equal to productivity.”
[26:10] Bob asks for practical tips for those who are uncomfortable with rest, who deal with that guilt and deal with that lack of affirmation. [27:00] CZ responds:
[33:20] CZ adds: Make a “To Don’t” list! You know what are barriers to your productivity, so call them out and be aware and intentional about those things.
[35:00] CZ continues: “What I care most about, I will put the most time, money, and effort into.” [35:30] Bob interjects: “A To-Don’t list is a great idea… there are always ways that we could have used our time more wisely… where do we plug in down time, rest, etc” [36:30] Brad adds: “Rest doesn’t feel the same for everyone… be aware of the things that fill you up versus the things that drain you, and balance those activities.” [40:00] Ken speaks about what might be on your “To-Don’t” list and why its important. “Maybe looking at the news isn’t a necessity every single day… especially during this time.” [41:00] Bob speaks on the idea that during down time or rest, we are losing opportunity.
[41:58] CZ chimes in: “For the most part, we as people are very good at ‘Whats’ and not so good at ‘Whys’.” [45:00] CZ continues: “Now that many of our ‘whats’ have fallen away, we are confronted with leaning on our ‘Whys’.” [45:20] Brad asks CZ about his inspiration for writing his book “Soul Rest.” [45:38] CZ: “It was the result of having a reformational experience in my life.”
[48:40] Brad asks if his book can be tied into a business perspective. [49:10] CZ: “The book is centered on the idea of finding our true value outside of the things that we can make and do… part of that journey for me was understanding my position in connection with God… ultimately I had to ask myself, is God enough for me? All of my life had been built around the idea that I am trying to produce, make and SHOW others that I am worthy to God." | |||
| Ep 15: Finding the Good in the Virus (Part 3): How to Strengthen Your Client Relationships Through Crisis w/ guest Brian DeMarco, former NFL player and current agency owner. | 08 Apr 2020 | 00:59:25 | |
Summary: Disruption is fast becoming a theme of our daily lives. As we seek out information to make decisions that will impact our businesses, it is more important now than ever to be in communication with our clients. To not only have a seat at the table, but to be taking charge of those relationships and offering stability to our clients in this time of incredible uncertainty. Brian DeMarco has been through the wringer of uncertainty in his life- and he has taken that willingness to adapt into the agency realm as well. In today’s episode we’re diving into the opportunity to deepen relationships during this time of crisis.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About our Guest: He’s an entrepreneur, motivational speaker, a retired NFL player, and now an agency owner. He’s built two multimillion dollar businesses in both the physical therapy and fitness industries, and now he’s with the fast-growing marketing agency DRAFTR, where they serve clients like Uber, Universal Music, Ram trucks, and Easterseals. Based in Austin, Texas and joining us via Zoom call, we are so thrilled to welcome Brian DeMarco to the Podcast!
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:00] Bob introduces this week’s guest, Brian DeMarco. “He’s an entrepreneur, motivational speaker, and he’s also a retired NFL player. He’s built two multimillion dollar businesses in both the physical therapy and fitness industries, and now with the fast growing market agency Draftr, where they serve clients like Uber, Universal Music, Ram trucks, Easterseals, on and on. He lives outside of Austin, Texas- Brian, welcome to Agency Exposed!”
[3:00] Brian gives context for building his company. Coming out of the NFL he had a severe spinal injury that resulted in fractures in 17 places and 90% loss of function in his right leg. By ‘05 the injuries had gotten worse and worse.
[7:05] Brian: “What I loved was the strategy behind building a brand and building community around a brand that was meaningful… I very passionately was just in it every day and building this up, so when the time came around and we got to a certain point, it was obvious that it was just time for me to go.”
[7:51] Brian continues: “I knew all the things that I didn’t like about agencies, I didn’t like the fact that they would never work with me to talk about revenue, using revenue for KPI, for what was being built on the marketing side. So these tough conversations that not many agencies want to have, but that all went into the building of Draftr Media.”
[9:22] Bob asks Brian about what life is like for Draftr amidst the current shift in the world with Covid-19. [9:38] Brian reflects on the initial shockwave that everyone had to deal with, and the process of reassuring clients that they could go on.
[11:38] Brian continues: “Relatively speaking, it’s easy to be a leader or a CEO when the market is just absolutely booming and you can do no wrong. It’s difficult to lead in times like this, when we’re in a massive trial in our lives, the entire nation. This is when it’s hard to lead, but it’s most certainly needed.” [12:15] Brian: “There’s no way to sugarcoat this, it’s decimating a large part of our economy for now. But you have to have the courage to look boldly at the future and be determined to win.”
[13:49] Ken responds: “Whether you’re coaching and leading clients or you’re leading your own team- you’re going through something too. And you’d be naive to think that it doesn’t affect you… this is not a passing thing that just goes away. You can’t just hunker down for four weeks and hope that it goes away.” [14:35] Ken continues: “I believe the better approach is what you said, to assume that this is the new way or a portion of this is, and if you’ve got to do business that way, how can we figure out how to do business that way and thrive. It’s not easy- if it were easy, everyone would do it.” [14:55] Brian: “That’s why you see brands, like I Heart, stepping up with the concerts and people are going to remember the brand that stepped up during this time to provide them something- entertainment. The one advantage is that people are now walking to the internet in droves to socialize, to be entertaining, to educate, which is another interesting side component of this time… we can educate our kids from home. Our school systems fell in line, our kids are learning. You kind of saw the writing on a wall with schools as we knew them, growing up.” [16:15] Brad asks Brian: “Tell me some of the things that you’re doing with your agency that are practical that other agencies maybe can glean from it and actually do themselves as well, whether they’re large or small agencies.” [16:35] Brian speaks on his efforts to “run lean” and never lose the startup mentality as far as resources and spending are concerned. They’ve had to ask themselves where they can pull back where it won’t impact clients- extracurriculars for staff, parties, etc.
[19:05] Bob presents: “There may be a temptation to take on clients out of desperation, to take what you can get to backfill things you’ve lost. And I think there’s some wise counsel here.”
[19:57] Brian affirms that there is a shift that is happening for companies without a vision. For so long it was easy for people to throw ads up on Facebook and call themselves an agency. He suggests:
[21:55] Ken adds: “For the last 10 years or so, anyone can throw up a website and get clients… and no one will know the difference. Experience is really being undervalued.”
[24:52] Brad adds to Ken’s point- “What you’re talking about is, Is your business a commodity or is there something unique about your business that is harder to find? And so a lot of these, if you build your business around a commodity, then you’re just competitive in price. But if you build your business around something greater than that, where you’re the best or the only, then you’re a lot more valuable.”
[27:15] Brian responds: “From that standpoint, when we position ourselves early with the brands that we’re working with, that we’re really integrated.”
[29:25] Brad: “I’ve heard old war veterans say there’s no bond like those that you go to battle with on the front lines.”
[31:13] Brian quotes Henry Ford: “Those that try to save money by stopping marketing are those that stop a clock to save time.”
[34:32] Brian: “We did this with our team, having very real and candid conversations… I didn’t want them working from a place of panic.” [34:50] Bob asks what Ken and Brad have done to be proactive in their own offices. [35:02] Ken responds: “We’ve talked about this a lot, acting from a place of fear… this produces horrible results every time.”
[40:00] Brian adds that helping your clients with their perspective is valuable as well. Perspective on other difficult times when you’ve made it through and excelled. [41:05] Bob speaks on previous podcast episodes: “We talked about funds, do you keep a years funding in the bank, how prepared are you truly to lead?” [42:31] Brian speaks on the good that will come from this: “The folks that truly understand what it means ot build a brand will be the ones that last through this.” [44:59] Brad recalls a message from Mark Cuban, who says that he was talking about how after this is all over, he sees our country exploding with new innovation and ideas and energy just because we’re all pent up and we’re all excited and it’s like after a war is finished- our economy will rise.
[46:00] Brian agrees, and tells a story about a recent discussion with a partner. He asked his client at the beginning of a meeting to just sit in stillness for a few minutes to assess his feelings and thoughts.
[48:07] Brian asks how we will be impacted by this, as our grandparents were impacted by the Great Depression. Will we hoard toilet paper the way they hoarded canned goods and buried their money in the backyard? [50:05] Ken adds: It’s important during this time to be present, to value the time you have on your hands. It is more valuable than most things in life, so don’t let this pass with you just holding your breath waiting for it to be over.
[52:25] Brian: “You’re dealing with a fundamental human problem, and for a lot of folks, the fear is paralyzing. So this will be a time where the truly smart agencies will rise to the top.” [53:30] Ken asks one final question: “What are some things from your football days that was ingrained into you that you use when leading and running your agency these days?” [55:38] Brian shares a piece of advice from a former coach of his, “I’ll trade an ounce of athleticism for an ounce of integrity any day” and “United together with a singleness of purpose.”
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| Ep 14: Finding the Good in the Virus (Part 2): How do you lead and THRIVE through uncertainty and turmoil (Coronavirus or any other)? [LIVE EPISODE] | 01 Apr 2020 | 00:56:53 | |
Summary: Are you worried about how you’re going to make payroll? Are your prospects not buying? Are you afraid current clients will put things on hold? Are you unsure how to keep SELLING? We have the same questions. While these questions are real, the key is to LEAD well through the turmoil and find the opportunity in it. Doing that will separate you from the rest. When everyone is running around in chaos, it may feel counterintuitive to be calm, but that is where the opportunity lies.
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:35] Bob welcomes us and speaks on the purpose of this episode. “We want to chat and do what we normally do on the podcast and talk about some things that we’re all dealing with as a business owner, former business owner, current, whatever you’re dealing with… Speak about how current business owners are responding to the current crisis. [1:10] Ken: This is a quickly changing landscape for businesses… we wanted to discuss what we’re all seeing… and how can we navigate this, not make rash decisions and actually, find the opportunity in all of it, which I think is the key.” [2:00] Brad discusses being reactive versus proactive and being ready to make that switch in the midst of the chaos that’s happening in the world. “What do we do now? How do we prepare for the future? What can we do currently to prepare for Q3, Q4?”
[3:02] Bob: “Let’s start with square 1- mindset. There’s this idea of everyone, specifically our clients, wanting to pull back. Wanting to like put everything on hold. And I think that can carry through to our mindset as well.”
[3:57] Ken adds that a lot of businesses are being directly impacted, and they have to react quickly and take massive action. The ripple effects of that impact all of us and our clients feel that as well.
[6:47] Brad asks Ken: “How are you personally keeping a mindset that is positive? Instead of thinking about the worst, preparing for the future in a positive way.” [7:00] Ken speaks about how important it is to control what you’re allowing to clutter your mind. He limits news intake to a need-to-know basis.
[8:50] Bob reflects on the instructions that are given by flight attendants on an airplane- that in the case of emergency, put on your mask first before those around you, as you cannot assist others if you are not properly prepared.
[10:31] Bob: “I think that’s square one for business owners and solo-preneurs and whoever may be listening- just make sure you have some sort of routine and put your mask on first every day.” [10:57] Ken speaks to the lack of routine that can happen when you’re working from home. It’s easy to never get out of your pajamas, to work for 15 hours a day, to never go outside. This is why during this time more than ever it is vitally important that you’re taking care of those things. When so much of our day to day routine is gone, it’s easy to lose that for ourselves. [11:47] Brad adds: “You hear people say they either work really well at home or they don’t… half the country is probably struggling working from home while the other half is getting a lot done.”
[12:51] Brad continues: “You have to have a strong plan, right? It’s good to know the what if’s- not from a place of fear but based out of a clear idea of what you need to do. So if you do get to the point where next month, you’re not able to make payroll, are you going to let people off or are you going to take a personal financial hit yourself and try to take that on…”
[15:42] Ken: Having a better understanding of your “Why” through this can allow you to market better and grow through this as a business as well.
[17:00] Ken: “We even grappled a bit with the idea of explicity selling your products right now… you have to do it. You can’t be opportunistic or anything like that, but there’s a right way to do it. Ultimately, the way the economy works is by money exchanging hands and people selling and people buying.”
[18:01] Brad talks about a commercial he saw recently. Cadillac has expanded interest-free financing, they’re delivering a new vehicle to you directly. They’re marketing “We’re all in this together” and that is a message that is positive and impactful during this time. [19:41] Brad: “I think for all of us in our businesses, how do we provide win-wins for our customers?”
[20:29] Ken adds that aside from explicity selling something of value by reducing the prices of all of their educational products, Metacake is also offering free coaching sessions. That’s not so much part of lead generation as just sharing their strengths. [22:30] Ken continues to share the ways that Metacake is changing their mindset around the situation. “It’s important that you keep selling, that you keep doing this stuff and you don’t just slow down because of other people, because there’s chaos going on around you. That’s the way I believe we’re going to get through on the business side, by continuing to move the market forward despite the pain and chaos.” [22:52] Bob: “Since all three of us have experience on the Digital Marketing side, let’s talk a little big about some, many of our clients are using paid media, online ads, whether it be Google or YouTube or Facebook or Instagram… there’s probably a pull to hold back on advertising… but more people are online now than ever before. And so there’s a HUGE opportunity- for those who do the majority of their work online- to actually focus on the current customer LTV, etc. How have you guys been approaching that?” [24:15] Brad speaks to his experience so far. “We are talking to our clients about it and trying to have a short term and a long term goal with our media spend and whether or not we will need to continue marketing a product that they currently can’t sell.”
[25:36] Ken asks if Brad has experienced clients pulling back on their spending. [25:41] Brad speaks to certain types of clients. Some are projects where Brad’s company is marketing events around the world that have now been cancelled.
[27:28] Bob: “We’ve had a question come through, Kyle says ‘Now seems like a good time strategically to up our marketing as a content production firm, however we’re also worried about keeping cash in the bank.” [27:42] Ken responds that financial stability is the most important thing, as Metacake does a lot of content and that financial stability is important. “We’re investing into creating content and in general we’re seeing consumption of that content going up, and we’re seeing ad costs go down.”
[30:31] Bob adds that tweaking the messaging slightly, not to be opportunistic, but to be genuine and authentic in response to people’s concerns.
[31:39] Ken: “Another idea is recycling things that you’re good at that you don’t typically sell.” He has gotten a lot of questions about how Metacake works from home and the processes/systems in place that makes that easier.” [33:00] Brad asks a question from the live feed: “How much money do you think an agency needs to have to get through this as a company? Where do you find sources to make sure you have cash flow on your balance sheet?”
[36:13] Ken adds: “If you’re not doing electronic payments, or if your accounts receivable is really big and delayed, this might be a lesson that after all this you should be switching to electronic payments.” [37:40] Brad reflects on the fragility of many businesses in America. “60% of American live paycheck to paycheck, and so if you’re one paycheck removed, you’re in a world of hurt.”
[44:00] Ken speaks on a “new normal”. Amidst all of the anxiety in our world right now, customers aren’t making purchases as frequently and quickly, but ads are doing a lot better.
[45:37] Brad adds that he has clients who have slowed down, but eventually there will be a new normal… right now it feels like week by week. “Even my sentiments last week are different than this week. This Monday I suddenly got a charge, a new energy. I’m more in a rhythm now, more of a new normal.”
[50:24] Ken adds: “As a business owner, it’s our job to continue to help them [clients] make the right decision- which is moving forward, in the right way… if you believe in what you do, and you believe in the results that you can create, that will help you be in a position to make the right decision.” [51:45] Bob suggests reaching out clients that you know are struggling and offering to get on the phone and talk through some ideas and let them air their thoughts. “I think this is where as agency owners and creatives, we can really shine.” [52:52] Brad speaks on the importance of being heard during this time. Some of your clients may not have support at their company, you may be working with a marketing manager who has no access to financial information on their end, who has no support from their higher-ups. This is a time for us to say “hey let’s be a part of your solution, let us help you become a part of the solution for your business as well.” [55:00] Bob: “I think this is a great time to be investing in giving back to your customers through content, especially helpful content.” | |||
| Ep 13: How do you get and close more deals (even now)? With guest, Dominic Cummins. | 25 Mar 2020 | 00:57:41 | |
Summary: In this episode, we have our guest, Dominic Cummins who has been coaching agencies on how to close more business for years. We’re breaking down his process for not only getting more leads, but more importantly, closing more business. The key is changing mindsets around the sales pitch process. With a natural gift in sales and a deep desire to see companies succeed and flourish, Dominic dives into his coaching strategies for agencies of all sizes- from those making less than $1M per year, to those making $50M+ annually. What is the best use of company funds to draw in new clients? Are RFP’s worth it for my business? What if I’m an introverted salesperson with a fearful apprehension of pitching and getting rejected? Today we dive into these questions and more.
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About our Guest: Dominic Cummins: After over 15 years in corporate America managing sales and marketing teams around the world, he helped a small software company achieve a $500M dollar exit and took the opportunity to start his own coaching practice for agencies. Dominic specializes in bridging the gap between sales and marketing for companies between 50 and 100 million in revenue. Now he helps those within the marketing community through his Apex Path, a mastermind for agency owners to help them find and fulfill their purpose through a profitable agency.
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [3:00] Bob asks Dominic about his career path. [3:05] Dominic: “I got my brokerage license at 19 and really developed a passion for sales.” He moved up the ladder quickly and by 24 was managing a bank branch but quickly realized that leadership and sales were not the same thing.
[4:45] Bob asks: What do you think is the thing that agency owners get wrong that you help them adjust when you consult with them?”
[7:35] Ken asks: “Why do you think people focus on leads?” [8:02] Dominic: “Well it has to do with comfort level… what I see with agencies is they just default to their level of comfort… I’ll get more people into the top of my funnel, and naturally as they fall through I’ll get more leads.”
[8:50] Bob: “It’s also easier, right? It’s easier to focus on getting that lead versus doing the hard work of the sales process.” [8:57] Brad adds that a lot of lead funnels are automatic once set up. This allows owners to go and do something else while something else is running in the background to generate more leads.
[9:58] Dominic responds to Brad’s comment on automation. For smaller companies at $1.5-$2 million in revenue, the lead flow is on some sort of autopilot. But for agencies with less than a million, there is virtually no automation in their funnels. [10:58] Dominic continues: “If you look at the typical conversion of cold traffic to a sale, it’s somewhere between 3 and 5% at most. That varies a little bit by industry, but completely cold traffic is somewhere between 3 and 5%.”
[13:37] Bob asks for an example of applying what he’s talking about with a larger, $20-$50M agency. [14:00] Dominic: “The principles are still the same, but at that point, lead generation has to be a component. All three of those things that I mentioned. Keeping in mind that most companies of that size are looking to sell eventually, keeping that automation of leads in line and going strong is really valuable.”
[16:11] Ken mentions that there is an excitement around generating leads, it’s definitely prevalent. For those who have wound up in agency ownership without being super intentional about it, going with what you know or what is familiar to you is easy to do. [18:30] Brad asks: How much percentage of your total revenue should go into sales efforts? [18:52] Dominic: “For a company to be considered a healthy venture capital acquisition, our cost of acquisition had to be between 18 and 22%... it did not necessarily benefit you to be lower than that…. I just say that 20% of acquisition costs is a good number.”
[20:48] Brad responds that at a certain point you have to ask “how much more are we going to throw into acquiring a new customer?” It really depends on understanding the customer's value in a year or two- you have to weigh that. [21:57] Dominic adds: “If it costs you $20K to acquire a customer but you only cash collect $5K, $20K to acquire the next few and only cash collect $10K, you’ve spent $40K to only cash collect $15K- you’re broke.” [24:23] Ken adds: “If you don’t know your profit margin on the services you provide, that makes it even harder.” [25:15] Brad: Talk about how you can judge what is worth your time versus when you might need to walk away from an RFP. [26:12] Dominic responds: “If you’re less than a million dolars, I don’t think you should play in the RFP world because there’s too much rent. As you get larger, that’s fine, you can take that risk.”
[30:00] Ken adds that his perspective is a bit different. “It’s basically gambling with a lot of money and a lot of time, time being even more expensive than they money side of it.” [30:25] Brad adds that he only participates in RFP’s if a client has already told him they were in the running- there has to be a sense of possibility in it in order for it to be worth it. [31:37] Ken adds that RFP’s are notoriously a pain, as they set up the relationship dynamic very poorly. One party will invest a lot of time and effort to “the royalty” in hopes of getting “knighted”... this creates an imbalance in the relationship. [32:54] Bob: “If I’m a business owner and I want to get a bunch of work done, I need to shop around to get the best price.” [33:23] Ken: “There is a bar that the RFP process often goes over in pitching, which is beyond ‘here’s what i think it will cost’ to the point where you’re spending $50K to send 5 peopel out there and throw a pitch at them along with the RFP.” [34:00] Dominic adds: Often RFP’s are used a lot in the government, when vetting of security clearances is necessary, etc. [35:48] Brad asks: “What advice would you give someone who doesn’t have a ton of money to send people out and fly around… where woudl you put the energy?” [37:00] Dominic responds: “Work your network… stay close to people and talk to them.”
[42:36] Brad: “I seem to avoid that human contact because I’m kind of afraid of rejection.”
[43:15] Dominic adds that when you do meet people in person, think of it the same way you do with CTA’s on a landing page. That landing page isn’t meant to make the sale, it’s meant to encourage the visitor to opt-in. So when you meet someone in person, think of it as trying to get them to “opt-in” instead of making a hard sale.
[44:50] Ken adds that: “If you switch the idea or the mindset- when I meet someone I’m not trying to sell them, talk about my resume, make them think I’m awesome. I’m just trying to gather information- then you don’t have to fear the rejection so badly.”
[46:39] Dominic: “It feels less like rejection when all you’ve done is offered to help. If they choose not to take your help, that’s not rejecting you. They’ve rejected the help… which doesn’t make sense to most people.”
[48:40] Brad adds that changing the mindset is super helpful. Asks “Who is the right team when you’re pitching?” [50:10] Dominic: “Avoid founder selling syndrome, where the founder is really the only one who can make the sales- and that’s because your sales process isn’t good enough, you’re not articulating it well enough to teach other people to do it.” [50:45] Dominic mentions Make RC who runs large podcasts and has an agency that caters specifically to certain kinds of gyms.
[52:19] Bob asks one final question: What would you say is the one thing that any business of any size could do that could generate more referral business for them? [52:54] Dominic: “Treat them well. We are very good at following up on a sales basis.”
[55:13] Dominic plugs his website: apexpath.com or follow him on LinkedIn! | |||
| Ep 12: Finding the Good in the Virus (Part 1): How will your business survive (and thrive) through Coronavirus? | 18 Mar 2020 | 01:00:15 | |
Summary: We talk about "disruption" in business all the time, but we rarely expect disruption to come from the external. The population's reaction to Coronavirus / COVID-19 has disrupted everything including business. Some businesses are being affected in immediate ways, and others will see lagging affects, but no business is immune. Regardless, we know that seasons will come and go. Winter will always come, it will be hard, but the shedding will produce fruit IF we adapt appropriately. In this special episode we unpack how we are seeing the effects of Coronavirus in our businesses and how we are processing dealing with them.
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:35] Bob mentions the Coroniavirus (Covid-19) and refers to his recent article. “We talk a lot about disruption, right… this disruption is coming from the outside that we have no control over this time… It’s not Facebook being disruptive or Apple being disruptive… Let’s discuss how we’re being affected by it, by our clients that are being affected by it.” [2:13] “Anytime you’re disrupted by anything, it’s hard but it causes you to adapt and that ultimately is a good thing. And so how are we doing that?” [2:16] Bob: “How are we learning from this? This is a huge lesson that we are being given whether we like it or not.” [2:24] Brad: “Is this a gift? Is that what you’re saying?” [2:41] Bob: “I know that there’s the reality of people dying in pain and there’s a lot of negative things that go along with it. But when it’s all said and done… I think we’ll look back and say wow the Coronavirus was the end of… fill in the blank. And those are the things maybe that we can learn from this and adapt as well.” [4:32] Ken speaks on the widespread business effects of the virus- tourism, music, restaurants, etc- “But in our world, the agency world, we often operate in the digital world… but our clients maybe not right? So that’s why we’re here today- to talk about we as agency owners can help other businesses that are being affected… And then the other area that might be interesting is Are we being affected right now?” [5:04] Ken speaks on how it’s important to understand that just because you work in the digital world, or just because you can go remote quickly or easily doesn’t mean that you won’t be impacted. It’s important as a business leader that you are looking ahead. “If we’re not looking ahead, that’s probably very naive and unwise. And so today we want to sort of looking ahead to that.” [5:44] Brad gives his take and the way his business is being impacted. “I think within the next week or so I’ll begin seeing some immediate effects.”
[8:00] Brad: “Its really hard to manage a business when you don’t know what tomorrow may look like… it’s a challenging time for clarity. It’s a major challenge for me because I have to be reactive. And I don’t like being reactive, I like being proactive. And there’s a certain level of, you just have to trust that humans are going to figure this out.” [9:51] Brad: “I don’t fear for my life, but I fear that I could pass it on to somebody else.” [10:13] Brad speaks on other financial happenings that will eventually impact every business, regardless of your exposure. The stock market tanking is one example. [11:32] “I feel like if you could take the financial crash of 2008- 2009 and mix that with Y2K, add some bird flu, add some swine flu… you got this perfect storm.” [11:46] Bob reflects on the panic surrounding Y2K in the 90’s and relating the very real fear of specific impacts versus the panic about planes falling out of the air and people getting stuck in elevators. This is similar, with people stockpiling toilet paper and creating a panic around that. People have been arrested for claiming to have a cure for the Coronavirus.
[14:00] Bob asks: “How do I learn from this as a business? How do I survive and not just follow the herd?”
[16:29] Ken speaks on accepting the reality of the situation and not being resistant to your business changing. Radical acceptance of having NO control or clarity on life is a journey and process that builds strength and resistance to the pains of life over time. [20:39] Ken: “The biggest challenge [with older, traditional clients] is cracking through the mindset that this is just how it works. We can’t change… if you’re in that mindset, you’re probably going to be disrupted by this and you will not get out of it until you change that mindset.”
[24:00] Brad: “I don’t think we give ourselves enough credit as humans, we can figure things out pretty quickly if we need to… like in that movie you were talking about Bob, he probably wasn’t focused on the time constraints, just on focused on the end result.”
[30:35] Ken speaks on the importance of project management tools, to get your workforce at home and safe if possible.
[34:05] Brad mentions GoToMeeting, his company is very comfortable with that as a video call resource. [35:00] Brad speaks about planning for future projects in your own business. “Just be really thoughtful financially about where you are… every business you’re deciding your next step and what you’re going to invest in… prioritize what’s important in the long run. Also: How do we leverage time? How do we see this as an opportunity to leverage this time in our business?”
[36:04] Ken mentions resources on getting the most out of working from home, including a boo written by the creators of Basecamp. [38:00] Bob asks “What are some things you guys know you are going to throw away during this time, and how are you trying to thrive through this?” [39:45] Ken: “We’re considering how to offer genuine help in genuine ways to businesses that are actually affected… so we’re considering… retail vs online… we may be offering some support for no charge for a little bit.”
[42:59] Bob: “I think there’s going to be a huge boom in virtual reality through this… we may be forced at home in our cocoons, but we have eyes to see more than ever before.” [45:34] Brad reflects on technology and the speed of communication having an impact on this situation: “Is it the actual virus or is it the information that is actually traveling faster? You only realize it when something like this happens, just how deeply entwined we are with everyone these days… supply chains in china are impacting our direct daily lives here.” [46:41] Brad: “We try not to drive our businesses out of fear, right? But the reality is, is that when stuff like this happens, you realize how much out of control we all kind of are in our businesses that we do have to be reactive.” [49:50] Bob talks about how there is a fine line between benefiting from a terrible thing and being opportunistic, but also balancing the reality that we are all humans and all interconnected. It’s important to keep clarity on that fact in the distance as we make day by day decisions that have a rippling impact. [52:56] Ken speaks on balance.
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| Ep 11: Who Needs an Agency? With guest David Dutton of the ReplaceYourMortgage craze. | 11 Mar 2020 | 01:06:47 | |
Summary: David is a self-made solo-preneur from right here in Nashville. With massive achievements inbusiness, marketing, celebrity branding, book publishing and more, David is helping us understand the other side of agency life. As someone who’s passion for business growth has propelled him to the forefront of his field, David helps us dig into the role agencies have played in his journey and drops some great marketing advice around value propositions, and using buyer skepticism to your advantage (even writing entire marketing campaigns based on those skepticisms!).
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About Our Guest: Author of seven books and a millionaire entrepreneur, David Dutton’s story and knowledge of marketing will astound you. From starting with nothing to building a multi million dollar business from scratch in just four years, you are surely going to get some takeaways from our sit down interview with him.
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:00] Bob introduces David Dutton [1:25] David gives an overview of his life and the road that led him to Ecommerce. Speaks on the Ecommerce wave of the early 2000’s.
[8:00] In 2001 David started replaceyourmortgage.com to teach people to pay off their mortgage in 5 to 7 years. [9:35] Ken clarifies: “The thing you’re selling is education.”
[9:56] Bob remarks on David’s self-teaching. Oftentimes people hire agencies to do the things that David has done, so his view of agencies is a unique one, as both the customer and the provider. [10:55] Brad asks: How is your style different from what agencies have done? How does your passion and “having skin in the game” impact the way you do business? [11:48] David: “Bottom line, I look for results… branding and direct response is important… when I interview an agency I need to know that we’re going to geta result. That’s teh biggest thing for me.” [12:20] David’s rule for salespeople:
[12:49] Ken asks about David’s role within his team. [13:00] David: “I have an assistant, my partner has an assistant, then 8 salepeople and a couple support roles.”
[14:55] Bob: Talk about how you value cost of acquisition and lifetime value of customer. [15:30] David: “Once a human being has handed you their visa, they’re 6x more likely to do it again.”
[17:18] Brad: “So that’s how you get that authority, with that book. Understanding those strong concepts is the way to go… How do you overcome the naysayers with proof?” [18:25] David: “If I want to convince someone to hand me their Visa… you have to knock the walls down to get to that point.” [19:00] David: “I try to make it so that there is a preponderance of truth...I try to stack that so it’s obvious.”
[20:45] David: “When I write a book, I want you to walk away with innate value from that book.” Even if someone doesn’t make a sale, he wants there to be inherent value in that book so that his brand is associated with their understanding of that concept. [22:15] Bob brings the point back around: “So you’re building this case to deal with the naysayers. What you’re saying is that you’re doing that work so that other people tell them and convince them as well.”
[25:30] Ken emphasizes the barrier that David’s business has to pull down- it’s large and difficult to do.
[27:13] David speaks on the danger of blending in with the crowd: “Don’t be white noise… grab their attention first and build that desire. You NEED to use my agency to grow your business, and here’s why.” [27:55] David suggests creating a spreadsheet of your top 5 or 10 competitors and noting their strengths and their weaknesses, and compete based on those. “You can be brand new and still piggyback on the knowledge that other companies have created.” [29:43] Ken asks: “What are other things you do to de-risk your purchases and prove to customers that you are legit?” [29:46] David: “I use math, #1. You can’t argue logic.”
[31:25] Brad asks: How do you simplify for those who aren’t particularly math-savvy?
[34:29] Brad adds that David brings a lot of authority to the table when it comes to verbiage surrounding mortgage rates and loan lingo- for a lot of people these terms and this world is scary and unpredictable, but David has a way of bringing out those fears and speaking directly to them.
[35:10] David: “We’re all trying to move up, to elevate ourselves in society. So if you know that someone can provide that for you, and you trust them.”
[35:31] Brad speaks on the power of getting referrals and the reliability of leads that come through referrals. “How do you get those stories for your case studies?” [36:02] David: “Typically it’s hard to get people to post anything- much less something positive.” Getting people in the moment to give their honest feedback after they’ve had a good experience.”
[38:05} David: “So if you’re an agency, go out and get your top 5-10 objections. And then get testimonials that answer those questions.”
[38:15] Brad asks: “Why do you think humans are drawn to negativity and skepticism?” 38:40 David: “I’m not sure why… and I don't like it. But it’s never going to change. And so I use that.” [39:10] Bob recalls a study that he read about, that negative information stick to the human brain instantly, whereas positive information takes about 20 seconds to fall away. This is essentially survival, fight or flight in our psyche.
[40:26] Bob: “ When I see something positive and I like it, I know it’s not going to stick in my brain. So I try to reread it. And meditate on it and sit with it so that it does stick and overcome the negative things that automatically stay.” [40:55] Ken: “Just being different is important too, right?” Many websites are using positive reviews to convince people to buy, so putting a spin on it (negative headline followed by how the biz answers that pain point) is different and pattern-interrupting. [42:03] Ken adds that also just being genuine makes a huge difference. “...there’s obviously skepticism in every single sale. And so saying it and calling attention to it actually makes it more believable.” [44:15] Brad and Bob discuss using negativity that is inevitable in your business to your advantage. When most people see nothing but good reviews with no negative, the human discernment kicks in and skepticism takes over, because it doesn’t seem real. [45:00] David circles back around to authority and proof. “I literally just think about who the person is that I want to hand me money. And what can I do to make it SO obvious.”
[47:00] Ken: “So the prerequisite for that is knowing your customer persona, avatar, etc with great detail… Often agencies are the worst at that, because there’s the mindset that ‘Everyone is my client!’ which makes it hard to speak to that one person with specificity about their pains and also do what you’re saying… shoot for the worst-case scenario person.” [47:42] David: “one of the emails that I came up with that can help any agency, any biz. The subject line is ‘Your top 3 Questions answered about____ (today only)’ that just offers answers to questions they may have in a future newsletter.”
[50:50] Ken recounts a story in Jordan Belfort’s book- objections were listed en masse and they all boiled down to a small list of basic objections. [51:57] David: “You can even write a whole article about those- speaking to those pain points directly.” [52:55] Bob asks: “When you are outsourcing, do you look for specialists or generalists?” [53:03] David says mostly specialists, but sometimes specific skills are required. But specialists are preferred, someone who “nerds out” on what they do. [54:02] Bob asks for advice for agency owners. [54:28] David says he wrestles with real experience within agencies, he wrestles with getting results, getting paid on spend (instead of results).
[56:58] Ken speaks on the validity of these concerns. [58: 57] Brad: “The old agency way is that we make money on media and we give away the creative for costs that are almost free now.” [1:02:33] Ken speaks on the flaws in a straight ad-spend model. “At the end of the day you do have to figure out how does the value that I contribute scale in a nice proportion to the value that you’re creating inside of the company you’re working for? I do think there are some flaws in a straight ad spend model.” [1:04:35] Ken speaks on a cool takeaway: “You’ve done the thing for yourself, you are the master. And you can do it for other people. A lot of the time agencies don’t focus on doing the things for their own business that you’re offering to do for other clients.” [1:05:20] Bob: “I think that’s a good marker for choosing an agency- are they doing for themselves what they’ve promised you they’ll do?” | |||
| Ep 10: Do you Operate in Fear or in Truth? | 04 Mar 2020 | 01:01:57 | |
Summary: Fear - the most detrimental emotion. What’s worse is making decisions in this irrational state. Yet so many people live and operate in this state daily. In business and in life, there is no shortage of things to incite fear. As an agency leader, you know more than most about the dangers of fear-based decision making. Honestly, most days you probably feel like King Solomon… “cut the baby in half!”. Balancing demanding clients, financial challenges, personnel issues, taxes, accounting, market shifts, and about 1 million other situations while inspiring an encouraging and transparent office culture that inspires great work on a high level can seem impossible. Well, it turns out leadership is not for the faint of heart. It’s downright hard. This is no easy task, and there is A LOT of room for fear to sneak in and sabotage your decisions. How can you create the financial stability that your business needs without turning off clients or putting your personal finances in jeopardy? Where do you turn when your brain is stuck in a state of unreality? We get vulnerable about some of our fears. We dive into strategies we have learned for coping with this pressure and what has given us the most relief and encouragement through this process.
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:25] Bob: “We wanted to talk today about fear, anxiety, and not being controlled by it… How does it control you in the business situation, for those of us who are running agencies, work at agencies, engaged with agencies, whoever you are…” [2:06] Bob: I failed at this miserably in my business and I was driven by fear many times and made a lot of bad decisions that cost my business, myself, my people that work for me… I learned a ton, I am thankful for that… I know I was not alone, even though I felt like I was.”
[2:57] Brad relates fear in business with thinking about the unknown.
[3:25] Brad: “I can’t control whether a client decides to do something different and no longer wants to work with us… or if the economy tanks and we go through a recession and people quit spending, I can’t control a lot of that… from the unknown.”
[4:10] Ken speaks about how not making fear-based decisions is a core personal value.
[5:07] Ken asks: “Have you ever made a really good decision based in fear? Probably not… How many things have you NOT done out of fear? Because fear is one of those emotions that actually stops you- it’s used strategically sometimes in the marketplace to stop you from doing something.”
[5:50] Ken: “I don’t think anyone can control their fear… that’s a hard thing to do. What you can do is be aware of it and once you’re aware of it you can manage it appropriately. That takes a lot of conditioning… it’s like a muscle, not like a switch that you flip on an off, but a willpower that you build up over time.” [6:25] Bob: “I think we should talk briefly about some of the psychology around it… one of the most helpful things for me is understanding that your brain doesn’t know if something is really happening or not. It’s all about what your senses are, what you’re thinking and feeling, and then your brain acts accordingly. And so that’s where fear can paralyze us as business owners.”
[7:55] Bob tells us a story about a new VR game that simulates falling off of a building, and relates it to the idea that your brain doesn't know what’s real or not- you know you’re safe but your body still produces the adrenaline and sensation of falling.
[8:54] Brad adds: “If you have fear, you’ve somehow experienced something similar in the past where it wasn’t a positive thing. So the more you can overcome the fear and go through experiences and see the positive outcome, the next time you go through that, it’s not going to be so fearful.”
[9:52] Brad: “If the worst were to happen, you might have to go through a little bit of hardship, but comparable to other people in this world, all three of us have it made. So it’s this attitude of gratefulness that we’re grateful for what we have and that we really don’t need all that much to be beautiful human beings.” [10:33] Brad continues: “For me, it’s a constant battle with myself of really, how should I react to this and how can I have a sound mind going into this so that I know I’ll be clear-headed through the process where I’m not owning that fear to the point where it becomes unrealistic.” [10:57] Ken: “I think that’s an important aspect of combating fear is identifying the source of information that’s creating the fear in you… Seeking truth is really important right? In business and in life… Can you trust opinion? Are your interests aligned with the people that are giving you those opinions?”
[13:00] Bob adds: “The only person that has your best interest at heart concerning your mental wellbeing is you.”
[13:53] Bob: “Don’t isolate yourself- talk about your fears… As a business owner you carry so much internally… those narratives can go to some pretty crazy places in your head… Sit down with trusted friends and advisors to talk them through.” [14:34] Brad speaks on when he feels the most fear. When there’s already a lot going on in your business and you’re already running on low fuel, the fear and anxiety can really take over. So it’s important to take a look at your calendar and start removing the things that aren’t necessary, to give yourself space to think clearly.
[16:15] Ken speaks on how intentional you have to be with this- taking care of yourself and your body has to become an initiative in your life. [18:00] Ken: “Whether you like it or not, you're in that position where you need to come prepared, be conditioned to lead your organization appropriately. That’s just the role you’re in… and you have to accept that. And once you do, it’s like okay that means I have to live a life that has these qualities to it because I need to be conditioned.” [18:46] Brad: “It’s really hard to lead a company when you’re just reactive.”
[20:10] Brad speaks on the power a client has to put additional pressure on a team, and how important it is to communicate with the client early on to put more demands on how they will work with you.
[21:41] Bob asks the guys to speak on the “guard rails” that they keep in place to keep them on a healthy track.
[22:24] Ken: “I believe the business world has some potentially fatal, or sort of toxic relationships that happen, or modes of operation…. They don’t come from a bad place, they’re almost accepted.” [24:43] Ken speaks about the way Metacake approaches client relationships “Hey, we want to be able to serve your and over-deliver with the value that we create… we have to be extremely excited at the end of whatever we do. And the only way we can do that is if we can focus on that and not have to worry about being paid.” [25:45] Bob: “That comes down to processes right? So a clear statement of work, clear agreements… not just that you create them and your clients sign them, but that you go through a reading process and an understanding of what hours you work, when, how you communicate, what’s expected from them.” [28:02] Ken: “I think that it’s important to challenge traditions appropriately, to make sure they’re actually done in healthy ways.” [28:15] Bob asks Ken how Metacake figured out how to solve the billing issues that plague a lot of agencies. [28:36] Ken was told by a mentor that the #1 threat to your existence is cash flow.
[31:15] Ken continues: We wanted to solve the cash flow issue… we went to electronic payments and split the payments appropriately over the months of the engagement. So whether that’s a retainer or whether that’s a project, we just spread it out sort of evenly.” [32:53] Bob asks Ken how long it took Metacake to transition away from the traditional pay structure of agencies. [34:15] Brad speaks on the pain of back and forth to get payment from some clients, and how much time, energy, and attention that this process that take/waste. [35:00] Ken adds that when you’re in this back and forth with a client, it’s a big and important unknown detail that you’re not in control of- and THIS allows fear into the equation immediately.
[39:23 ] Bob asks Brad: “What about Anthem Republic? What are some key things that have eliminated fear and anxiety for you?” [39:38] Brad responds: Service agreements that have more guidelines and guardrails, early communication.
[42:50] Ken adds: “That’s one area I think most business owners may or may not be first in… but either you’re really versed in it or you have no clue… Should you have a financial advisor?” [43:09] Brad: “A business owner has to be financially healthy in order for the business to be healthy financially. [44:33] Ken: “You being healthy first is the only way that you can lead a company that makes everyone else healthy.” [44:37] Brad: “And that helps me as well with my fear personally. If I feel as a whole, I’m okay, for the time being, then even if my business feels like it’s struggling or you feel like you might be losing a client or some financial resources… it’s not 2 ships that are sinking, right? And that helps alleviate some of that pressure for me.” [45:14] Bob asks: “If you are working on yourself and you want that to permeate your atmosphere at work as well? Do you guys provide any opportunities for your staff? Because they might be internalizing a lot of this themselves, right?” [47:22] Brad: “The challenge is how to you be transparent with employees so they understand.” [48:13] Ken responds: “I believe fear is spread so easily and it’s almost like as human beings, it’s like we want to spread it… for a lot of people it’s sorta like gossip or anything else, maybe it helps us feel better… but as a business leader, it’s not rational.”
[51:07] Bob asks about the way The Guys deal with anxiety and fear personally. “I know for me, I’m learning how to be present and breathe in those situations… Do you realize how shallow your breathing becomes when you are doing this kind of stuff?” [52:21] Brad adds that turning back to scripture is incredibly helpful. That and “having a heart of gratefulness… to look at everything I do have and not what I will lose.”
[53:55] Ken speaks on how there was fear in his formative years concerning immediate safety, so he realized early on that the only way to take control of that fear is through seeking health in every aspect of his life: mentally, spiritually, physically.
[56:58] Ken: “I don’t think God has fear for you- I don’t think that comes from God… and you might even say that faith and fear can’t coexist.”
[58:34] Bob speaks on how releasing responsibility can be freeing- “I’m only responsible for me, not my employee’s lives or clients lives. And I’m not responsible for the way my clients feel about me or how they respond to me. My job is to know that what I’m doing is the right thing to do.” | |||
| Ep 9: Is Agency Growth really a good thing? | 26 Feb 2020 | 00:53:47 | |
Summary: If you’re an agency leader, you’ve got a “how it all began” story. Whether you set out to be a mega-influencer in your field, or like many, you stumbled into owning a running a company as an afterthought of following your passion. Yet we’re all inundated with the notion that we HAVE to be getting bigger. If you’re not growing you’re dying, right? While that is true, growth doesn’t necessarily mean size growth. There is a point when you have to ask yourself “Should I be scaling this?” In today’s episode we break down this question and dig into the WHY behind what we all do. Contrary to popular belief, scaling is actually NOT a necessity, and size doesn’t coincide with success or profit! In fact, it’s quite the opposite. So we all must ask ourselves, “Should I scale the business, stay where we’re at, or stop this business ownership altogether?”
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes:
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| Ep 8: How does personality impact the way you do business? | 19 Feb 2020 | 00:59:00 | |
Summary: In today’s episode we break down how increased self-awareness has had a positive impact on the way we do business. But what does self-awareness really mean? With a plethora of personality tests available these days, there is little excuse for having low self-awareness. When you know your personality type, your strengths and weaknesses, you have a more accurate picture of how you can improve and grow. Today's episode discusses the pros and cons of self-awareness, how better understanding yourself leads to greater understanding of others, and how self-awareness can lead to greater, more lasting success in business and creating companies that have a positive impact on the world.
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [2:06] Ken reflects on last week’s episode with Hannah Paramore Breen, and speaks on how it ties into this week’s episode: “She even talked about the topic for today, her personality type and how personality types play into what you do and knowing how you’re made up helps you navigate business a little bit better.” [2:27] Bob asks: “When you guys were starting out, do you all feel like you had a strong sense of self-awareness going in? How much did that play into your business?” [2:41] Brad: “I think I had zero self-awareness, it felt like that anyways. I had awareness in my talent, but not who I was outside of my talent. That’s been the biggest struggle, and is something I think we all deal with… Every day I learn more and more about how I deal with people, and how I deal with stress, and things that I’m learning about myself. It’s hard to sometimes see things that are kind fo ugly about yourself… that’s the beauty, that you can make a change and work on things about yourself that are not positive to other people or your business or yourself.” [3:44] Ken: “I would say when I was growing up I had no self-awareness or very little. God, the way he’s led my life... there were so many cliffs that I could have gone off… and if I didn’t it wasn’t because of me because I wasn’t self-aware… I did have personality traits that were advantageous for doing business…
[5:35] Bob: “We need to define self awareness… the ability to look at why you do the things you do, why you see the world in the way that you do, without any attachment to it being right or wrong… it just IS… and then move forward in the best lane with that awareness?” [7:17] Brad: “Sometimes I look at the things that I’m not and think… I don’t have that in me, that’s not how I’m built. And I spend a lot of time shaming myself with it, instead of trying to align myself with people who ARE that…” [8:23] Ken speaks on how a lack of self awareness can make it seem like things are never working out in your favor, when really you’re walking into a wall over and over again, waiting for a different result that could come from some self-reflection and self-awareness. [8:42] Bob: “The biggest problem [with a lack of self-awareness] is that you don’t understand why you see the world the way that you do, and so you think everyone sees the world the way you do.” [9:18] Brad: “I always struggle because I find myself hitting walls a lot, and I wonder if I need to do hard things and get through it or am I just not the right person to be doing that? It’s just not in me, sometimes I feel like I can just overpower it, but I definitely get hit by that self-doubt a lot.”
[10:42] Bob and Brad ask Ken if this experience feels any differently with a business partner. In their businesses they wear many hats and have to do things they’re not good at naturally because it’s the only option. Does throwing an additional “boss” into the mix change that dynamic? [13:05] Ken: “Bob Strachan is my business partner… and for us it works well. And I’ve looked at why because there’s always a downside, and an upside. There’s never a perfect scenario, right? We’re actually complete opposites… we’re literally the opposite on every personality test and I think that’s actually why it works- also I think it takes respect and humility. I think ego is a lot of times what gets in the way of most business partnerships. Everyone wants to be ‘The Guy’ for the reason of ego rather than what’s the best thing.
[15:17] Bob: “You hit on one thing that I ''ve been trying to keep in front of mind. What gives you energy versus what drains you or exhausts you? And I think we would be remiss if we were to say, ‘Don’t ever do things that drain you’ because in business, especially as agency owners, you’ve got to do the hard stuff. You’ve got to do the spreadsheets and the balance sheets and the things that I hate.” [15:48] Brad: “I like those things.” [15:49] Bob: “I know you do! But it drains me. However the point is that you should gravitate toward those things and be self-aware enough to say, ‘I don’t feel tired when I do this, in fact I get energized when I do it. It gives me creativity and motivates… be self-aware enough to note that and say ‘What is it about this? I need to be devoting my time and my energy to this. And the things that drain me, I need to surround myself with people that it does give them energy to do this.’ “ [18:34] Brad speaks on his own introversion and how sometimes he feels out of his own skin because of the social anxiety that impacts his business decisions.
[19:35] Ken: “Personality is really more about what gives you energy than what you’re good at. Because you could be good at something that drains you. But that personality is more about positive and negative energy. I feel like there’s two categories of things- you have your strengths- the things that give you energy would be smart, would be strategically smart to align yourself with those things. And then there are OTHER things that are universally draining… that 1% of things that everyone hates, everyone hates to get up at 5am, so if you’re the guy that gets up at 5am you’ve got an advantage. You do those and you can do those with consistency and repetition. And all of a sudden the hard things become just how you operate and that’s how you operate at a high level. [21:01] Brad: “So one thing which has been really helpful for me is I know that my energy level is great from like 8am till about noon, and I can run hard and do all the things that I’m not built to do but do them anyways. But after lunch if I’ve had to talk to a lot of people or really had to interact with people, I lose a lot of my energy because I’m drained… mentally I’m just spent.”
[23:01] Ken adds: “If there is one action item from this podcast it would be- be intentional about your schedule based on when you’re at your best.” [24:15] Brad speaks about the Enneagram: “I’m an enneagram five, which is considered to be the investigator right, so I get completely in my head...there’s certain things that exhaust me and if I overthink and I think too much on something I can also get burnout where my brain just won’t shut off.”
[25:38] Ken asks: “Given a person of that type… is that something you have to be more aware of defending against? Overanalysis like that?” [25:53] Brad: “Yes, overthinking. And once you’re aware of it, it’s… my silver bullet, but it can also be my kryptonite.”
[27:32] Brad speaks on the power and importance of exercise with his personality type: “The thing about exercise is that it’s not just for my body, it’s for my head. It’s so that I’m thinking more about my body and not about things in my head.” [27:54] Bob gives a quick synopsis of the Enneagram Personality test and how it differs from others.
[28:40] Brad: “As an enneagram five, you know every type has their kryptonite, and mine is avarice. And I had to look it up, what the heck does avarice mean? And it means that I feel like I won’t have enough of something, typically its time or money… I realized everything I do all day is trying to maximize time so I can get everything done.”
[30:50] Brad continues: “That’s avarice… now that I have awareness of that I can be proactive and when I notice it, I think ‘What can I do differently’ and sometimes that’s just putting myself in the position that I don’t know what’s going to happen next, and that’s okay. And just allow things to happen as they do, and love that, and enjoy just being in the present, without having to care about what will happen tomorrow. Today has enough challenges of its own, why are we caring about the challenges of tomorrow, or the next day? It’s a constant anxiety that I’ve lived with my whole life and I’ve just never dealt with it. But now that I am, it’s hard. It’s hard work. But worth it.” [31:55] Bob asks: “What about you Ken? What is your kryptonite?” [31:57] Ken: “I’ve taken a lot of personality tests, and they all seem to align. On the enneagram I’m an 8 with a 9 wing. And 8 is ‘The Challenger’. And on the DISC test I’m a D-I, D-C, something like that… Enneagram 9 is the Peacemaker… The challenger is typically someone who is pushing forward and challenging things… there can be a dark side of that that...”
[34:00] Ken continues: “The benefit for me is that I get energy out of running after something, I enjoy figuring something out, I have this basic premise in my life that nothing is impossible. I don’t necessarily believe that I can do everything… but with the right resources you can… I really think that for a challenger, that dark side really depends on whether your intention is in the right place… Generally I’m pushing forward for what I believe is better for everybody. When I’m leading a team or my family… it’s not out of my ego. In the past it has been, when I was more immature.” [35:31] Bob interjects: “Another quality of an 8 is that they root for the underdog, do you find that to be true for you?” [35:36] Ken: “Yeah, I would say that that’s accurate for me. I’m also a 3, 1 point off, which is I like performing. Which is another part of my personality.” [35:40] Brad: “My brother is an 8 and one thing about him is that he always wants to take care of everyone. And that’s kind of their main motivation, they really do care about everyone. Sometimes it’s a ‘my way or the highway’ kinda thing, but they do it because they want to protect their clan. And that’s an honorable thing- that’s a lot of responsibility.” [36:15] Ken: “I tell my wife all the time, it doesn't always come across the same way, but I feel like I’m made to provide and protect… Those two words resonate with me and I’m not saying I’m best at them, but I’m driven by leading a charge for justice, for a better way, especially when there’s people that I care about inside of that. That leads me to do business, to be the best I can be in health. There are positive sides.”
[39:10] Bob: “I’m an enneagram 7… the Optimist, the Visionary. It’s somebody who alwasy sees the glass half-full. Experiences are everything, as a visionary and a builder with an 8 wing, entrepreneurial spirit. Relationships and people skills are strong. I get energy from rooms full of people, and I don’t mind speaking in front of people.”
[41:14] Bob continues: “In stress, the 7 goes to a 1, which is the perfectionist… so I know when I start getting frustrated with people… for not doing things right, I know I’m not in the right headspace.”
[42:00] Ken asks: “What was it like for you guys before you were aware of these things, and after, in the context of being a leader? Because over the years, I get to interact with lots of leaders of big businesses, and things that are just viral. The ones that are aware of this stuff are able to lead a team that actually makes a positive impact on the world. The ones that are not aware often are the boss, not the leader, the guy that hurts people and doesn’t lead through example. Doesn’t know it, but they’re not full or healthy, and are actually doing a disservice to people. There is such a difference between a leader and a boss.” [43:57] Bob: “The value of self-awareness isn’t just for yourself… because then you begin to see other people in the same light.”
[45:30] Brad speaks on human complexity: “We’re all one number, but we’re all so different within that… I spent so much of my career thinking everyone should be every number, or thinking that we should all have all types of personalities… it’s putting too much on one human to do… I want to work with superhumans because for some reason I think I’m a superhuman… but the reality is… you think everyone’s an idiot but they’re just gifted in certain areas…” [46:40] Ken speaks on the importance of understanding that a team is made of people with different strengths- that’s the beauty of it. Being aware of those and working together in those strengths (and weaknesses) is what makes being a part of a Team so great. [47:11] Brad: Sometimes you find those gifts… later on. They start taking on other responsibilities and you realize their strengths lay somewhere else.... You have to be patient, #1, you have to SEE the value in it, #2, and then you have to #3, pour into that and grow it and encourage it in them”
[49:00] Ken: “Just being aware and valuing that is so much further down the road than others… it creates so much more success even if you think you’re not good at it. Just be AWARE of that.”
[51:40] Bob: “Interpersonal relationships and conflicts, and getting the most out of employees… as well as asking how to engage with certain clients…” allows you to speak with clients in a better way. There is potential to eliminate a lot of stress and issues by attempting to identify their personality type. [52:38] Brad: Speaks on having a client that asked a lot of questions and it appeared that he was attempting to find fault within the organization, but he was strong-willed and curious and an Enneagram 8. “And now that we’ve earned his trust, we are part of his clan. And he protects and defends us as a client.” [53:37] Ken can relate: “Are you here to help or hurt me? That question has to be answered, but how you go about answering can be really different from person to person.” [54:37] Brad: “Some people who are the toughest upfront end up being the people that care the most for you… they’re just trying to vet you and make sure you’re the real deal.” [55:00] Bob speaks on the difference between Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. “From what we understand of his biography, really for most of his career Steve Jobs lacked a lot of self-awareness. He drove a lot of people away but made a great product.”
[56:50] Brad: “You can be in something and not be the best version of yourself and still grow a successful company.” | |||
| Ep 124: Agencies need to focus on this in 2023 | 03 Feb 2023 | 00:39:49 | |
Subtitle: 2022 flew by and 2023 is here. That means it’s time to reflect on 2022 and what you want to change for yourself and your business in 2023. In today’s episode, we break down our goals, predictions, and thoughts for 2023 along with what we think all agencies should focus on. We talk about profit, efficiency, value, processes, Severance, shooting for the stars, and more on this week’s episode. Let us know your thoughts, goals, or questions in the comments below.
Summary: In this episode, we discuss our goals, ideas, and theories for 2023 along with some changes we will be making in our businesses. Each agency is unique and has different strengths, yet there are a few things we all could be doing to improve and spark change in the coming year. The first of these being focusing on and prioritizing profit. Profit is mistakenly viewed as greed driven or selfish when it is often in fact the opposite. In order to serve your customers well, you have to be able to fund ways to do that, this is where profit comes in. Most midsize agencies make around 15% of profit per year, and small agencies make around 10%. This is simply not enough to successfully run a business and allow for growth and investment. Profit also ties into efficiency and value. Profit is based on value, and value requires efficiency. So in order to increase your profit, you need to evaluate and improve your efficiency and improve the way you communicate your value to your clients. This is where mindset comes into play. You have to believe that you have earned your profit and that what you have to offer is valuable. It’s also crucial to recognize the importance of processes and evaluate how you can implement them to create more efficiency. We also talk about the advancement of technology, what that looks like, and what that means for agencies moving forward. It’s important to identify your ‘Lego blocks’ and improve your attribution.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:05] Bob opens this week’s episode with a chat about how the meaning of phrases or words change over time due to new societal context. [3:00] Brad talks about the importance of having a holistic and balanced life and how work can, “disconnect us from who we are”. [3:24] Ken says that, “there's no such thing as business life and personal life.” but we often separate the two mentally. [7:09] Bob asks the guys about their thoughts, and predictions for 2023 and any goals or changes they’ll be making in their businesses. [7:34] Brad talks about some of his new focuses for his business in 2023. “We are focusing a lot more on new business development, looking at our processes and services and really challenging what we do, making sure that our clients get the best value, but also that we are competitive, really offering value where our customers can't find that easily, and looking at our current customers and trying to figure out how do we serve them better?” [8:24] Brad dives more into serving his current customers better and his ideas on how to do that. “We are shifting our models, diving into our sales data to understand where our key profit centers are, and trying to package a little bit more of our services in a way that is more better clarity. We've hired somebody to kind of spearhead that, a Director of Client partnership, and just really understanding, you know, where our sweet spots are trying to dive into that further.” [9:43] Ken talks about an analogy he uses to identify and create replicable things to sell. [11:01] Brad mentions the importance of recognizing, “processes run your business and people run the processes”. [11:52] Ken discusses his thoughts for 2023 regarding the importance of profit and how that enables you to serve your clients. “A lot of people associate profit with greed. And if I have a high profit, my clients won't be happy. That is a common misconception; it's the exact opposite.” [12:59] Ken says that, “10% profit margin margin is not enough to run the business. Any MBA will tell you and the standard is around 30%.” [15:00] Ken elaborates more on profit and its relationship with efficiency and value. It's important for agencies, especially smaller ones, to understand that profit is based on value…Agencies tend to validate themselves with busy work more often than other businesses…Unhealthy, non profitable, low profit businesses don't help anybody, not the people that work for them, not the people that own them, not the people they serve.” [18:27] Bob talks about changing our mindset and beliefs of profit to one that allows you to, “learn how to charge more and realize I'm going to be able to serve my clients.” [20:30] Brad applies the adage, “when you shoot for the stars, at least you’ll land on the moon,” to setting goals for and dreaming about your business. [21:51] Ken talks about the role of your inputs and how that impacts your ability to shoot for the stars. “Whatever star you're hitting, is probably in line with the inputs that you have.” [22:22] Ken asks a few questions that all agencies should be asking themselves in order to prompt a mindset change that will help them to begin to pursue their big goals. [27:10] Brad discusses the importance of presenting value in a creative way or a way that makes sense, and uses an example from his business recently to demonstrate its importance. [29:37] Bob breaks down his thoughts and predictions for 2023 including technology’s advancement, smaller agency sizes, and understanding your business’ attribution, and how these things will impact agencies and what agencies of the future will look like. [33:58] Bob also talks about blockchain being integrated into marketing, data integrity, investing in technology, the commoditization of services, and changing your mindset of being a service to being a media company. “You need to shift your thinking from just being a service to seeing yourself as a media company. Some of that might be print, some of it might be intellectual. But 90% of what we do is we create media.” [38:41] Ken summarizes this episode with three key points for agencies to focus on. “Focus on profit, focus on efficiency, focus on value.” [38:48] Brad wraps up by saying, “If you guys have any questions, or if you guys are doing things this year in your business, reach out to us.” | |||
| Ep 7: Selling an Agency, Behind the Curtain with Hannah Paramore Breen | 12 Feb 2020 | 01:11:49 | |
Summary: There are only 2 ways to gain wisdom: 1) learn from your own experiences and failures or 2) learn from the experiences of others. In this episode we discuss the reality of building and selling an agency with Hannah Paramore Breen, founder of Paramore Digital and author of Business Ownership- The Joy, The Pain, The Truth: A Survival Guide. This is a topic on the mind of any business leader. It’s something that’s often idealized, but rarely understood.
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About Our Guest: Hannah Paramore Breen: Former CEO of Paramore Digital, a digital agency she ran from 2002- 2016. Through the years she navigated the world of business ownership- including the highs and lows that inspire you to achieve and make you want to quit. Fast Company, Business Insider, The Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg business week, and the New York Times have all profiled Hannah’s candid, no-nonsense style and approach to leadership and the daily struggles that come with owning a high growth digital agency. She also has a 12.3 handicap on the golf course!
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [3:38] Bob asks Hannah: What was the motivation behind writing your new book?
[5:00] Hannah: “I feel like I have something to say, particularly to business owners who want to know what to do with what they’ve built, because that was my big question the last three years or so… have I become the limiting factor to the company?” [7:33] Bob asks Hannah to speak on business being “a process of continual shedding”
[10:05] Bob asks: “In your book you discuss trying to find your #2 within the first 5 years- is that what you’re talking about here?”
[13:00] Ken asks: “Where did you go outside of your company, or could you go anywhere to find those peers?”
[14:35] Bob asks: “Being early in the digital agency space and seeing this whole world transform and being a part of it- What was it like engaging and interacting with generational differences?”
[15:42] Hannah: “You begin to not trust your staff because you know that at that age, you’re a pit stop on their way to somewhere else and turnover is very hard on project work.” [15:50] Ken asks: “It seems more often than not in the agency world or even maybe other service businesses as well… you might end up in business without wanting to be in business, is that right? And so you don’t have that ‘thing’ that pulls you through.” [16:41] Hannah: “Exactly… people get into marketing or creative jobs because it seems like fun… a good place to start… and I do think in the agency world you have a lot more turnover. And the thing is… clients expect it.”
[18:35] Ken asks Hannah why she chose to start an agency [18:52] Hannah: “I was a classical piano major in college. My dad was a preacher, and my mother was a housewife… I didn’t have any kind of career aspirations… I was just on the borderline when women took off in the 70’s… some things happened that sent me off on a different path. I worked a lot of soul-sucking jobs in my career… so I’ve never had a business class or a marketing course in my life.”
[20:36] “I loved that job and that job changed my life. And it was so early in the industry that you were just learning on warp speed every single day.”
[22:35] Ken: “So would you say, the reason you got into your agency was because of the excitement and the freedom?”
[23:30] “The core values of my company that I eventually wrote like three years in, they reflected so much of frustration from the industry.”
[25:00] “So I hired a project manager, and then I hired a developer, and I needed two, and then it’s over. Then you have a company.” [28:30] Bob asks: “What was it like being a woman-owned digital agency starting back then?”
[31:00] Ken asks about the process of actually selling her business. “So from the outside, you start a business, you grow it to $5, $6 million, which is awesome. And you sell it. That looks awesome and exciting- and I guess a lot of people would idealize that. But talk about some of the ups and down in that?”
[32:30] Ken and Bob ask where that lack of belief came from.
[34:15] Bob: “Was that something that kept you up at night? Like… this is either a home run or it’s going to fall flat.”
[36:00] “You spend months going down that road to sell, which means that you are choosing to not engage in business development like you normally would… so your business development pipeline starts to dry up… everything makes you angry, you’re emotionally wrung out… it’s not fun anymore… If you have a vision for something else, if you have the opportunity to sell your business and make good money and good multiple on your business… it takes serious consideration at least.... Because there are very few times in your life that you have the opportunity to do a deal of that size… and in the kind of industry which changes so rapidly, your skillset can be antiquated.”
[38:14] Brad asks about the relationship with her staff and what their response was to her.
[43:00] Ken asks Hannah: “Are there any things you would do differently? What are the top 3?”
[45:51] Ken reiterates 2 awesome points: “Number one, make sure you’re enjoying what you’re doing… we spend more than half our lives in business, so it has to be something you enjoy… And number two… you’ve got to build it so that it’s a smart business. It creates a profit. It’s built assets… so that ultimately, like you said, it can not only fulfill your destiny where you need to be but also everyone who works for you… this business has to be on the rails.” [46:41] Hannah: “A lot of time the right reason for making decisions is a financial reason. The company needs to make profit.”
[48:00] Bob asks: What one thing could 60 year old Hannah tell 42 year old Hannah?
[51:23] Bob asks: “What are the things you see… starting new digital agencies these days. What are some things that you’re seeing and want to advise them about?” [52:02] Hannah: “The lack of business acumen… there’s no way in life that a 20 something year old is right around a business… young owners are too altruistic by nature and aren’t ready to navigate the waters you get into when you start doing real business… Lean into humility.” [54:00] Ken mentions mentoring as a way to open yourself up to be the shortcut for new people in the industry.
[55:43] Hannah: “I’d love for my legacy to be to change the relationships between business owners so that we have a much more collaborative culture.” [56:07] Bob adds: “That’s our dream. And I think… you’ve got to get beyond the business principles and you’ve got to be willing to and be vulnerable into the personal, the psychological, the emotional, because that is the emotional intelligence around business ownership.” [1:06:55] Hannah: “... a strong spiritual foundation for me is a reason outside of what we see every day… we’re supposed to leave the world a better place. Accepting that you’re not going to have perfect balance in your life every day is a process… so you have to let go of your own expectations of what your life is supposed to be like and reframe that for yourself.”
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| Ep 6: How do you innovate, grow, and serve fast moving clients? | 05 Feb 2020 | 00:59:12 | |
Summary: Bob Hutchins, Brad Ayres, and Ken Ott are talking about how to innovate, grow and serve fast-growing clients in an agency world that is both ever-changing and also static. Hyper-growth is idealized, but the truth is scale isn’t always good. You need healthy scale. How do you help businesses see the forest through the trees? How do you inspire some to think bigger? How do you get clients who are moving too fast to slow down and pay attention to what will create healthy growth? There is a delicate balance to establishing a strong, influential role with a client, regardless of the type of business they are in.
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:26] Bob asks: "There's this new business model of failing fast and scaling quick and getting stuff out. It seems like the fastest wins. What does that mean for agencies who try to lead that charge?" [1:56] Brad: “we do have clients that are over a hundred years old… they built such a strong legacy, but they can’t move as fast as they need to.”
[2:49] “So they’re looking at acquiring companies who could scale faster.” [3:17] “We can talk more about how, as an agency, how you can prepare your infrastructure, and your processes to move that quickly and to understand that things pivot. And sometimes that’s really hard.” [3:39] Bob asks Ken: How have quick pivots and “failing fast” impacted Metacake and their clients? [4:05] Ken: “We preach innovation to our clients because ultimately, that is something that is never urgent and always important.... Innovation needs to happen whether you’re a big company or a small company.”
[5:34] Ken: “Just because other people are doing it [innovating] doesn’t mean you should be doing it NOW, but you should be doing it, you just have to figure out when.” [6:46] “Just like people have personalities, agencies and businesses have personalities. Knowing what your strength is is important.”
[7:30] Brad: “We have companies that we lead, and companies that we serve. The fear with companies that we serve is that we become a commodity… if we’re not leading and innovating they won’t work with us… and sometimes they’re just not a good fit. [8:45] “Even those companies that don’t give you a seat at the table… maybe you can still add table value by indirectly giving them suggestions and helping them to ‘see the beach’.” [9:05] Ken: “Even in a role of service… the way you avoid becoming a commodity is by being a really great advisor to them… We work with viral entrepreneurs as well as global brands. With those global brands they need to be led with innovation, with those viral entrepreneurs we want to advise wisely.” [10:13] Brad speaks on having a strong understanding of your client and being aligned with them and an extension of their leadership. [12:10] “How as an agency do you follow the culture of a client when they are averse to pivoting, change?” [12:45] Ken “Even an industry that your agency doesn't have experience in, the reason that you’re brought on it because you do have a speciality in some other area… if you don’t have that, maybe you shouldn’t be there… but you should be able to use your specialty to push that innovation.” [13:27] Bob: “I think a good agency… gets over those humps is with data.”
[14:30] Ken: “that implies that you’re investing in acquiring data… could mean getting experience outside of client work. Being in eCommerce, we have several product companies that we run the stores of and so we can learn from them.”
[15:56] Brad: “You’ve got to be open to agile testing…. You've got to be able to think outside of the box and [28:00] Brad: “... one of our clients… only works his business plan 3 months out. That’s it. And what he told me is that he’s going to pivot if he has to… either you’re with him and you are running right beside that pivot, or you’re going to get left behind.” [29:05] “In this case, this individual knows exactly where his business is going… and how does an agency support somebody like him that is running that fast?” [30:15] Brad: “Some clients want to make money TODAY, and some… care about their market share and they want to be leaders in their market… they’ll have a technology that noone else has.” [30:40] Bob: “How do you get your staff to see and to develop that mindset [of quick pivots and change] when they might be people who are creatives or they’re perfectionsists… that you need to function well.” [31:45] Ken: “In this type of example where companies are moving fast and you as a founder may not even realize what their full vision is.”
[34:50] Brad: “For us, #1, I think constantly talking about business practices with your team...allows them to go Okay there’s multiple ways to get a business off the ground.”
[36:00] So even if we do pivot, it’s all about communicating… that our goal is not just to serve a customer, it’s to see that customer’s objective met and their business objective met… trying to bring value to that leadership and have a seat at that table.” [37:00] Bob asks: What do you guys feel like the value is for Agencies moving forward in the near future, in the next five years, 10 years? Because I think what we’re talking about is everybody's moving at the speed of light. [37:43] Ken: “I think it’s experience and driving results… if you look at the trajectory, you’ve got agencies that were hired in to do everything and they were responsible for figuring out how to do this thing. Everything from strategy to implementation.”
[41:00] Brad: “For us, learning to balance the bent towards perfectionism is a challenge… we want really high-end success and I think that’s why we’ve kept a lot of clients.”
[42:50] Bob reflects: “In the past, it was a liability (putting out a less-than-perfect product)... so now if you release something that is a little bit imperfect just to get it out there, you have more room to improve and shift the focus later on.”
[45:37] Brad: “What Elon Musk has done is he’s created a culture, not only with his company, but the brand and his loyalists that say ‘I’m going to be first, but you’re going to have to give a little time. Forgive me, cause we’re not going to hit it. You’re not going to hit a home run every time, but I’m going to get you on third base and then we’ll sneak in into homebase and we’ll get it fixed.” [54:03] Ken: “Don’t blitz scale or innovate or feel like you have to be a high risk taker just for the sake of doing it because these other companies do it. What you really need to figure out is what is the why behind where they need to go and where you need to go.” [55:50] Brad “Sometimes educating your client on the lifetimes values of your customers so that we’re no here just to make a dollar today, but we’re actually looking at the future of your lifetime value and going okay we’ll spend money right now to acquire a customer because we know that the lifetime value is X, and you’re going to make that up in a year from now.” [57:40] Brad: “The customer needs to know that you’re running with them and you’re right next to or right beside them. Otherwise you don't’ have a seat at their table. And if you can’t get a seat at their table, it’s really hard to convince your clients to do anything.” | |||
| Ep 5: How do you Fund Agency Growth? | 29 Jan 2020 | 01:11:22 | |
Summary: Bob Hutchins, Brad Ayres, and Ken Ott are back with Episode #3 of Agency Exposed! Today they’re talking about funding agency growth- both fiscally and psychologically as well. They break down how important it is to have your team on your side and be profitable. We discuss the difficulties of maintaining a long-term vision with your team as they complete short-term goals, and how keeping your team motivated makes a world of difference.
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:45] The Guys Discuss the name Agency Exposed and what interested them most about going the Podcast
[6:25] Brad: “Fail fast. Get back on your feet. And that’s where you learn and grow.”
[10:47] Last episode The Guys discuss marketing your business and getting new clients, and this week they’re unpacking how to finance it all. What are they using to market and promote their businesses right now?
[15:21] Brad: How much of your resources do you spend on new business?
[18:55] The Guys discuss Social Proof and the value of that in today’s social media-fueled world.
[23:12] Bob asks Brad how Anthem uses his strengths in visual and creative aspects to make his agency memorable.
[26:27] What specifically is Brad doing to use LinkedIn to the fullest?
[28:12] Bob asks Ken how Metacake uses YouTube for content creation.
[33:26] Discussing and even showing off your other specialities to clients is always a good idea- you don’t want to find out that your client is using another company for a service that you provide.
[39:20] Brad talks about the 4 Disciplines and how it has impacted his daily work within Anthem Republic.
[43:40] Talk about how you capitalize on your own business- how to take advantage of the funds you do have and what you have struggled with in terms of capitalizing.
[49:24] Ken shares the ways that Metacake has approached self-capitalization.
[54:51] Brad talks about Time Tracking, and how important that is in terms of keeping real track of how your time is being spent. [55:57] Bob shares advice from his mentor
[59:11] Brad speaks on the challenges of being the sole business owner, and being responsible for the long-term vision of the company.
[1:03:09] Ken speaks on staying inspired for the sake of the team.
[1:07:25] Brad speaks on allowing your team to understand the value of long-term goals/growth
[1:08:37] Ken talks about developing your own passion before expecting passion from your team.
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| Ep 4: How do you Receive, Accept, and Give Client Feedback? | 22 Jan 2020 | 01:02:48 | |
Summary: Bob Hutchins, Brad Ayres, and Ken Ott discuss the art and struggle of getting client feedback, giving client feedback, and receiving client feedback in an agency. As you peel back the layers there is so much under this seemingly simple task.
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:
Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [1:21] Bob Asks: How do we solicit value and use client feedback reviews?
[2:24] Brad Ayres Responds
[4:30] Ken discusses the importance of trust-building elements
[6:00] Brad on asking clients for feedback: “The first thing they ask is ‘What would you like us to say about you?’”
[8:11] Brad: “What I’m trying to do all the time is trying to understand the temperature and pulse of our clients.”
[9:20] “...it’s a two way street and you want that mutual respect. And that’s really what is hard to build- this mutual trust where they’re giving back to the agency and giving feedback that is helpful.”
[10:08] Ken: “The key thing that you said is relationship… it’s not easy to build all the time.”
[11:40] Brad: “I always go back to the Jerry Maguire quote- ‘Help me help you’... sometimes you feel like your client isn’t helping you. They’re actually not an advocate for you. They’re the adversary. And sometimes it can feel like…. Even your employees start feeling like… the client is the bad guy.”
[12:30] Sometimes clients are difficult and you work with them for 6 months and reach a breaking point.
[14:00] Bob: “In my past… I’ll tell you what I did wrong… the degree to which you will put up with a difficult client is many times in direct proportion to the amount of money that client was paying us.”
[16:43] Ken discusses Metacake’s philosophy on difficult clients:
[18:02] “One tip- I’m extremely big in working towards not making decisions based on fear. Fear-based decision making is the worst kind of decision making.” [19:23] Brad: “I do find myself making decisions based on fear and fear of losing a client, fear of losing the ability to support our payroll, fear to support my personal income.”
[20:15] Ken discusses conditioning yourself to not make decisions based on fear.
[21:15] Brad discusses the natural anxiety associated with determining how happy your client is- you are acutely aware of their expectations in regards to ROI.
[23:55] Bob speaks on creating false narratives for your client- “You’re trying to project your own thoughts into their head and say, ‘They must be feeling this’ and you begin to create narratives.”
[25:00] “One questions I always ask is how would you- if you were to hire us- what would you consider success a year from now? How would you define success. And 9 times out of 10, they will stop for a second and say that’s a really good question.”
[29:00] Brad asks “What if you’re working with a marketing director and a CEO as well, but their visions are not aligned. Maybe you’ve worked with one for longer than the other… if you satisfy one, you’ll actually not be satisfying the other… who do you serve? Your bosses boss, when you have a rapport? Or do you serve your direct contact?” [30:15] Ken: “As an agency owner, you don’t realize the level of responsibility that you might actually have…” [31:06] Brad discusses “showing them the beach” meaning, show them the results that they’re both seeking so as to contrast their visions for them. Show them that they aren’t aligned and let them say ‘Yes this is my vision’ or ‘No this isn’t what I want’, let them connect those dots on their own. [32:20] Bob asks “Do either of you guys have a process for getting client feedback? And if you do, how do you implement that feedback int productive ways within your organization? [32:36] Ken: “We use a few different methods- a survey midway through that we try to get someone to fill out and then discuss in-person.”
[36:00] Brad asks “What if you feel like your client doesn’t even value filling that out for you? Do you press hard into them and say ‘You need to fill this out, or do you finally just say, you know what, you’re just not going to be able to give us any feedback and therefore we can’t help you if there’s an issue.”
[37:52] Bob stresses the importance of HOW you ask for feedback. “The Google review is a powerful way for you to let the world know what you think of our team and our company. This helps promote our unique business model, therefore, is priceless to us.”
[39:40] Ken talks about another strategy: “If you serve a higher purpose, you’re in a much greater position of strength. When you say, Okay this thing is not just here to generate some money, it’s here for a purpose and it’s fulfilling that purpose and we’re pursuing that purpose and that purpose is valuable and beneficial to the world… that helps on the fear-based side of things a lot and the strength side of things.”
[44:00] Brad: Having clients on your Podcast, in a video with you, they become a true cheerleader for your agency.
[45:22] Bob on the psychology of internal/external reactions.
[47:45] Ken: “We can only control ourselves- what are we doing and going to do at an excellent level?”
[49:33] Bob asks: “Do you guys have a process to regularly sit down with your team or your staff and go through these reviews- positive or negative- do you sit down and process it? What’s the value for your whole team?”
[52:45] Brad gives clients a “bat phone” number, for use in emergencies when they feel like nobody on your team is hearing them. Allow them the opportunity to reach out so you can meet them halfway and get the communication going. Use your experience and people-reading skills to your advantage. [55:23] Brad: “give people props- even if they’re doing what you expect, still give them props. Because what it does is it empowers them to do an even better job.” [56:32] Ken: The ONE thing that magically can motivate people:
[59:00] Ken: “Think about when your clients give you gratefulness, how much more are you willing to go above and beyond.” [1:00:05] Bob discusses being genuine: “The key I think is being genuine… look for opportunities to be genuine, to really be human and engaged and empathetic with your team member or your client.”
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| Ep 3: New year! What’s your word? What's your plan for this year? | 13 Jan 2020 | 00:54:27 | |
Summary: Bob Hutchins, Brad Ayres, and Ken Ott discuss the practice of setting a purpose and direction for your agency this year. In a world where you’re always worrying about your clients, it’s important to take the time to be intentional about your own business.
Resources Mentioned:
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:
Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:52] What’s the 1 word that will be your focus in 2020? What word do you want to define YOU and your company this year?
[8:00] Going Public with Metacake’s unique purpose:
[10:00] Go Public with Purpose means being intentional about your message regardless of the circumstances
[11:12] Metacake Store / 2020 T-Shirt
[15:35] Brad’s New Years word: Clarity
[17:44] Bob Hutchins reflects on his past in running an agency and fighting the same mental battles.
[20:00] Ken on aligning your business with a purpose regardless of the business beginnings.
[22:45] Brad asks Ken what he does to measure the effective success of a yearly mantra or vision.
[27:00] Bob speaks on how the mentality of the leader impacts the entire team.
[28:10] Bob references The Big Leap by Gay Hendrixson.
[30:17] Bob’s words for the New Year: Leap and transformation
[31:45] Ken asks how Bob will make this happen in 2020.
[35:00] Sometimes taking a leap means a leap of faith- having the guts to leap and trust that the net will appear. [36:25] On the importance of receiving advice and feedback:
[40:00] Ken’s reflections on the true role of a leader
[45:00] Diving into transformation with confidence also means having the right team around you.
[48:09] Brad speaks on clarity
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| Ep2: How do you consistently generate new QUALITY business as an agency? | 31 Dec 2019 | 01:03:13 | |
Summary: Bob Hutchins, Brad Ayres, and Ken Ott talk about (the struggle) of getting new business in episode #2 of Agency Exposed. They talk about their own pain points within their businesses, tools they can’t live without when it comes to new client acquisition, and maintaining balanced relationships with clients as a young agency.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:
Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:34] Bob on Getting New Business
[1:14] What are your specific pain points? Other than salespeople, what are other tools and methods you use to drum up business? [1:43] Ken: Metacake is constantly trying and testing new ways to get business
[3:32] Brad: At Anthem, the difficulty is “Communicating to potential clients exactly what will benefit them.”
[6:25] From high level, what is the best way to get clients? [6:50] Ken: Metacake has 3 main channels: cold leads, partners, & referrals.
[10:29] Bob: Write a book!
[13:40] Brad: Take note of where your current or past clients found you- and follow up.
[14:18] Bob: Is there a tool in your tool box that you absolutely cannot do without? A tool that your business would be nothing without? [14:35] Brad: Word of Mouth.
[15:35] Ken: Highest quality lead sources are referrals.
[17:56] Bob: Create content about your work.
[18:56] Content Creation: How to do it, what types, how to use it [19:10] Brad: Planting seeds of content creation along the way is a great way to sow seeds for the future.
[25:09] Ken: Let’s talk RFP’s. (Requests for Proposal) Do you do these things and is it worth it? [25:49] Brad: RFP’s come by word of mouth for Anthem, and usually we only take those.
[27:31] Bob: RFP model is at one end of spectrum, versus charging for a proposal.
[29:25] Ken: My #1 goal is financial independence.
[30:40] Bob: As a young agency, how do you maintain healthy boundaries with clients without putting 1 above the others because they are paying your bills?
[33:40] Brad: The way many agencies pop up:
[38:00] What tool/s do you use to aid client management? [38:33] Hubspot
[49:36] Bob’s #1: “Spend more time with your current/existing clients- take them to lunch and continuously educate them. Create case studies about other clients doing different things.” [51:00] Brad: “Send existing clients a newsletter to let them know what we’re doing for other clients.” Discusses letting clients know that you’re experts in other services, let them know what you’re up to so that they don’t go somewhere else for a service that you offer! [52:58] Ken on the Real Value of an Experienced Agency:
[54:00] The power of LinkedIn
[58:35] Brad: What is your #1 thing for generating new clients
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| Ep 1: What’s Your Superpower? How to be seen as the BEST in your field. | 31 Dec 2019 | 00:58:43 | |
Summary: Bob Hutchins, Brad Ayres, and Ken Ott talk about their Marketing Superpowers in the very first episode of Agency Exposed! They share how they wound up in Nashville, discuss running your business based on your strengths and staying in your lane of expertise when it comes to working with new clients.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:
Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:20] - Brad Ayres shares about growing up in Detroit, what brought him to Nashville, and the origin of Anthem Republic.
[4:24] - Ken Ott tells us about his childhood in Queens and how the tough lessons he learned early on have informed the growth of Metacake and his passion for GROWTH in every aspect of life.
[12:00] - Bob Hutchins tells us about his early passion for technology, early days in Christian ministry and transition to entrepreneurship, moving to Nashville and 17+ years of agency experience. [15:20] - Question #1: What is your Superpower?
[17:30] - Ken loves GROWTH!
[20:07] Bob, Ken, & Brad talk about Transparency, Collaboration, and why entrepreneurs are drawn to the Greater Nashville area.
[23:07] Brad talks about The Active Antagonist
[23:34] Scarcity vs Abundance [24:56] Bob asks: How much does the local/regional culture impact your mindset & the way you do business in a connected, international world?
[33:21] How to say no when you feel out of your lane/expertise.
[39:00] Making yourself indispensable to your clients
[42:00] Is the customer "always right" in 2019? [44:20] In order to be the best at what you do, internal/business health comes first.
[52:29] The Guys wrap up by discussing strengths, weaknesses, and partnership.
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| Ep 123: How to write a book | 20 Jan 2023 | 00:47:53 | |
Subtitle: How to write a book. So many want to, so few do. Though it might seem lofty, unrealistic, or daunting, you CAN write a book. Everyone in our world has a different experience and perspective and something unique to say; the challenge is putting it into book form. In the last episode, we dove into Bob Hutchins and Jenny Black’s book, Our Digital Soul, breaking down the solution to media trauma and collective anxiety. In today’s episode, we continue our three part discussion of Bob’s book, but we focus more on the behind the scenes of how to write a book as well as the processes and some practical tips. We highly encourage you to check out Bob and Jenny’s book on Amazon or ourdigitalsoul.com and let us know your thoughts or questions in the comments below.
Summary: In this episode, we continue to discuss Bob Hutchins and Jenny Black’s book, Our Digital Soul. In our last episode, we talked about how to heal and be part of the solution to the collective anxiety and media trauma we as a society have endured and continue to bear. If you haven’t yet, please go check out the previous two episodes to get the full scoop of our three part series breaking down Bob and Jenny’s book. This episode is different from the past two because instead of breaking down the content of Bob’s book, instead, we dive into the processes involved in writing a book. Bob talks about his motivation behind writing this book and his previous three as well as the role writing has played in his business and life. He also talks about his process behind picking a topic, doing research on it, and deciding if it is something the public is interested in. Bob discusses the opportunities he’s had because of his book as well as his top tips and advice for anyone thinking about writing a book. He also talks about the importance of writing everyday, finding your unique perspective, and making your book authentically you. If you enjoyed today’s episode and feel curious about media trauma and how to heal, don’t forget to purchase Bob Hutchins’ and Jenny Black’s book, Our Digital Soul: Collective Anxiety, Media Trauma and a Path Toward Recovery.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:32] Bob opens this episode with a chat about old tv shows, inflation, and how the [6:34] Brad says, “the thought of writing a book is very daunting to me. So I would love to break down some myths of writing a book… I'd like to get to the heart of like, your motivation for book writing,” [7:31] Bob talks about his love of writing and how he’s built his business and marketing on content and how those things helped him become familiar with and comfortable with the idea of writing. [9:49] Bob discusses the importance of identifying your reasoning behind why you want to write. “Depending on what your reasoning for writing is, also should drive how it's done.” [12:10] Bob talks about his motivation for writing this book and his overall motivation to write. “The motivation was certainly thought leadership. And so that's a lot of my drive is thinking deeply about things and having a voice in the environments that I found that I find myself in my career.” [13:05] Ken asks Bob, “what was your process like in just deciding your topics?” [14:09] Bob says that there isn’t just one way to write a book and that one of the most important things is to just write something everyday. He also talks about the way he identifies if his topic is interesting to the outside world and would make a good book. [17:53] Brad asks Bob, “How do you figure out if your book is unique? What’s the process?” [18:38] Bob talks about the importance of research, outlining ideas, and identifying the target demographic. [21:22] Brad asks Bob, “what kind of things does your book allow you to do that you maybe wouldn't have been able to do?” [23:37] Ken talks about how in any type of business and marketing, “you have to have a formula for success.” [29:02] Ken mentions that one of the values of writing quality content is that it can be used to write a book. He also talks about his secret to writing effective articles and blog posts. [34:40] Bob breaks down the most important thing to remember when writing a book. “The most important number one most important thing is make sure it's authentically yours.” [36:11] Brad asks Bob what the cost would be to write a book. [37:13] Bob says that the price depends on what you’re looking for but it could be between a few thousand dollars to twenty thousand. [39:49] Ken asks Bob if he writes the title first or last and if he recommends finding a publisher or not. [47:04] Bob closes today’s episode by telling the listeners that they can find his book on Amazon. “It's called “Our Digital Soul: Collective Anxiety, Media Trauma, and a Path toward Recovery. You can just Google my name or Jenny black, my co author or just Our Digital Soul.”
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| Ep 122: Being human in a digital world | 06 Jan 2023 | 00:51:19 | |
Subtitle: Being human in a digital world. It’s no secret that our society has become a digital one; almost everything we do is online or involves the internet. In the last episode, we dove into Bob Hutchins and Jenny Black’s book, Our Digital Soul, breaking down collective anxiety and media trauma. In today’s episode, we continue our discussion of Bob’s book, but we focus more on the solutions and ways to reduce media trauma through screen time and how to heal from the influence of technology. We highly encourage you to check out Bob and Jenny’s book on Amazon or ourdigitalsoul.com and let us know your thoughts or questions in the comments below.
Summary: In this episode, we continue to discuss Bob Hutchins and Jenny Black’s book, Our Digital Soul. In our last episode, we talked about what collective anxiety and media trauma are and in this episode, we discuss how to heal as a society and how to remain human in a digital world. In order to remain human, it’s important to consider what defines humanity and then apply those aspects to our lives in the digital age. Bob discusses a few of the ways to remain human. The first one is that staying human is about less. Online we have the world at our fingertips. The internet enables you to do so many things online. Another way to stay human is to accept your limitations. Because the internet is so vast and has “all the answers”, it conditions society to believe that we do not have limitations when online. Bob also discusses the importance of coming to terms with the paradox and mysteries of humanity. Our world isn’t black and white, yes or no, there’s often a lot of gray and maybes. The internet can convince its users that everyone is one way or another and this is false. There are many mysteries to life that we haven’t figured out yet, and sometimes there isn’t a clear cut answer. We as humans also don’t always get what we want, but technology creates the illusion that we can always get what we want due to the lack of limits on technology. As professionals in the technology industry, we are responsible to lead the way and start setting boundaries and being intentional about our marketing and be the start of the solution. You won’t want to miss our next episode where we’ll break down the process of writing a book. If you feel curious about media trauma or want to be part of the solution, don’t forget to purchase Bob Hutchins’ and Jenny Black’s book, Our Digital Soul: Collective Anxiety, Media Trauma and a Path Toward Recovery.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:31] Bob opens this episode by introducing the topic, part two of Our Digital Soul by Jenny black and Bob Hutchins. [2:37] Brad talks about how in the previous episode, they discussed the challenges posed to us through social media and screens, and he asks Bob to unpack the solutions and the ways we as a society can heal. [5:22] Bob begins a discussion about some of the solutions or methods we can use and act on to limit our time on technology and the resulting trauma. “The first one is: Staying human is about less.” “Successful humanity is about making decisions, sticking with them, and moving forward. We look at a person who hoards and we go, that's really unhealthy. We kind of do that in the digital world, we hoard our options. We're endlessly scrolling, we hoard our experiences, because we want to escape from the limits of human existence.” [8:25] Ken talks about the importance of exercising the discipline muscle because, “once it's gone, it's really hard to get back, and it's so critical in life.” [9:41] Brad talks about how he’s noticed that often he will use his phone as a way to fill dead space and prevent boredom. “Why do I feel the need to pick up my phone? When there's a dead space? Why can't I just allow this space to happen? And be okay with not having to entertain my mind right now?” [10:23] Bob discusses the fact that, “boredom is our brain processing”. [11:29] Ken adds that your subconscious does process things through sleeping or just when your conscious is not focused or actively doing something. [12:42] Bob reads a segment from his book and talks about two other ways to remain human in the digital world, “the second one is staying human means accepting limitations. All of the things that in the real world take time, it takes accepting our limitations in order to create something beautiful.”... “Staying human means coming to terms with the mystery and paradox of humanity.” [17:05] Brad mentions the idea that remaining human in this digital space is not only about what you consume but also how you present yourself. [20:27] Ken discusses the adage, “with great power comes great responsibility.” and how it applies to technology. [25:47] Bob reads a section of his book and breaks down the idea that “Staying human also means you don't always get what you want.” and how technology has conditioned our society to believe that we can have whatever we want whenever we want because there are no boundaries to what we can do with technology. [32:04] Bob talks about how each of his three kids have grown up in different eras of technology and how it has impacted each of their lives individually. He also talks about some of the rules he and his family have to help them remain human and reduce the time they spend on screens. [43:15] Ken asks, “As professionals in this industry, what can we do? To not help hurt the situation, but improve the situation? How do we put boundaries on what we do to be part of the solution and not the problem and still do business?” [43:58] Bob discusses the importance of giving a genuine experience to your customers that is human and natural that doesn’t exploit their weaknesses through technology. [45:35] Ken entertains the idea of, “Putting reasonable limits on the unlimited. Put even limits on E commerce. I was thinking in my head, like, what if we shut down websites at 9pm? Like should websites close?” [49:40] Bob wraps up by informing listeners that they can purchase Our Digital Soul on Amazon for fifteen dollars. “We're the number one release in the psychology section for about a week and a half. It's called Our Digital Soul: Collective Anxiety, Media Trauma and a Path Toward Recovery. You can go to our digital soul.com If you want to know more, or you can just search it up on Amazon.” | |||
| Ep 121: What is media trauma? | 16 Dec 2022 | 00:52:15 | |
Subtitle: Media trauma. Sounds scary… but (our own) Bob Hutchins and Jenny Black’s new book, Our Digital Soul helps to, “guide you through the overwhelming maze of modern life to the life you really want, as it takes a hard look at the impacts of digital media and the trauma that results for all ages and every generation. Backed by research and experience, Black and Hutchins share their own personal journeys as well as those of their clients to explore a path where we can recover and thrive alongside our digital reality.” We dive deep on Bob’s new book, trauma bonds, technology, social media, small-t trauma, and more on this insightful episode.
Summary: What is media trauma? In order to understand what media trauma is, we first need to acknowledge that all technology is an extension of us. Because of this it impacts and changes who we are physiologically, psychologically, emotionally, and as a community. The magnitude of this impact is partially due to the imbalance of our brains and our technology. While our technology has continued to advance, our brains have stayed the same. This imbalance can lead to overwhelming amounts of small-t traumas. Small t-traumas are things such as a breakup, the death of a pet, losing a job, getting bullied, or being rejected by a friend group. These social small t-traumas happen even more online, that compound upon each other, causing media trauma. All trauma is created through trauma bonds and trauma bonds are defined as “emotional bonds with an individual that arise from a recurring cyclical pattern of abuse, perpetuated by intermittent reinforcement through rewards and punishment.” If we changed the word “individual” into “technology” would that statement not define our relationship with technology? In order to heal from media trauma, we must become aware of it, educate ourselves and others on the magnitude of media trauma, and begin to exercise self discipline. We will dive even further into Bob Hutchins and Jenny Black’s book, Our Digital Soul in the next episode; you definitely won’t want to miss it! We also highly encourage you to check out their book on Amazon or ourdigitalsoul.com and let us know your thoughts or questions in the comments below.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:32] Bob opens this week’s episode with a chat about what the guys have been up to recently. [5:47] Bob talks about his book that was just released, “Our digital soul: collective anxiety, media trauma and a path toward recovery”. [8:47] Bob begins a discussion about technology and its impact on society and says that, “good marketing is Psychology and math.” “it's getting people to respond and engage and then measuring and scaling it”. [16:06] Bob talks about the difference between video games and cell phone time/social media/work and how they impact your brain differently. [17:16] Bob breaks down how all technology is simply an extension of us as humans. “Every new technology is an extension of us. if you think of the wheel, it was an extension of our feet, right? We have to frame it that way, versus it's just a tool, and it's separate from me, no technology is ever separate from us…If it's an extension of us, then it fundamentally changes us. Physiologically, psychologically, and as communities… What is the computer and the cell phone an extension of? It's an extension of our brains. So what then is the internet? It's a further extension of our brains, and I would argue it's an extension of our nervous systems.” [21:57] Brad adds that it can often be very easy to be overwhelmed with the high amounts of information with emotional ties that enter our brain every day. [23:06] Bob talks about a quote from a biologist, EO Wilson, “the problem with humanity's we have Paleolithic brains, medieval institutions and godlike technology.”, adding that, “you can't plug a Paleolithic brain and expect it to keep up with godlike technology.” [24:25] Brad asks Bob if he believes that AI will be able to regulate the amount of information and stimulation we receive to healthier levels. [26:54] Bob defines media trauma, “small-t” traumas, and dives into some of the side effects (or “small-t’s”) of screen life. “We define media trauma as experiences through media, and personal devices that hinder or harm our capacity to be mentally whole.” [32:22] Ken discusses how according to Dr. Andrew Huberman, “the frequency of dopamine hits that we get daily is the number one societal problem because because they're their weight, they're way more frequent than they ever have been in history.” [34:29] Bob dives deep into an explanation of his and Jenny Black’s book, discussing how the internet compounds small-t traumas, three of the five symptoms that indicate that you have media trauma, and breaks down trauma bonds. “That's something called a trauma bond. Now I want to read the definition, and then I'm going to change one word. Trauma bonds are emotional bonds with an individual that arise from a recurring cyclical pattern of abuse, perpetuated by intermittent reinforcement through rewards and punishment. But let me change one word. Trauma bonds, or emotional bonds, with a device or a technology that arise from recurring cyclical patterns of abuse, perpetuated by inner intermittent reinforcement, through rewards and punishment.” [42:58] Ken asks whether we as a society can exercise our discipline muscle now that we know the true impact of technology on our lives. [44:36] Bob talks about the importance of self awareness, education, and collective intervention in order to, “retrofit this crazy godlike technology to our paleolithic brains.” [48:03] Ken asks what the audience should take away from this, and why should they read this book? [49:09] Bob says that, “mental health and wellness professionals. We want to get it in the hands of all of them. So hopefully it's accessible to everyone. But it is chock full of studies and data and information that could make an impact.” [49:58] Bob says that you can buy Our Digital Soul on amazon.com or at ourdigitalsoul.com. [50:29] Bob talks about some of the topics for the next episode. “What are some things that you can do to heal? What are you addicted to? One of the indicators is, what's the first thing that comes to your mind when you open your eyes in the morning you wake up?”
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| Ep 120: How to close more business | 18 Nov 2022 | 00:49:44 | |
Subtitle: The goal of all businesses is to make profit, and that’s only possible if you’re able to consistently close business at a profitable rate. So the question is, how do you close more contracts? In today’s episode, we break down the process of funneling clients, and some key steps to produce the most success and increase your close rate. We talk about investing, communication, Mark Cuban, money, and more on this week’s episode!
Summary: On today’s episode we explore strategies to close more business. In order to figure out how to increase your closing rate, first you have to analyze how you get clients there and how your funnel works. Once you’ve identified the steps and processes your business uses to close contracts and work with clients, then you can work on improving your processes and systems. In the inquiry phase, the top of the funnel, we’ve learned through our experience that asking questions is key to moving forward with clients. Some of the most helpful questions that you can ask are “Why now?, Why us?, and What would a successful project or result look like for you?”. These questions can help you identify the timeline, scope, and budget of the project as well as set clear expectations. We’ve also learned that having the client make a small investment with your business is key. This investment should ultimately leave them with a high amount of valuable information about their company and what all needs to be done to reach their goals for the project. This can help eliminate competition and give you a real sense of the project as well as give the client confidence to move forward with the project. The key in all of these things is communication. Oftentimes in life, people are disappointed because of unrealistic or unmet expectations. In order to prevent this disappointment and conflict, communication is vital. Be honest with what your company needs to uphold your standards of work as well as who you are and what you are able to do. It all boils down to money and if they feel like they are receiving a high quality product. In the end, money isn’t what we care about, it’s what that money can buy or do for us.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:47] Ken open’s this week’s episode by wishing Bob a happy birthday. [3:31] Ken begins a discussion about this week’s topic, sales, and how to improve your closing rate. “What are the logical stages that we go through that we want to track step to step?” [4:36] Ken begins to break down the stages that his business, Metacake, goes through, starting at the beginning with initial inquiry. “We have some sort of initial call where we qualify them.” [5:05] Ken discusses the three main questions he asks during the initial inquiry and how it helps him to understand the company and the potential project. “Why now? Why us? What would the things be that make it a win?” [10:43] Bob talks about the importance of managing expectations. [14:07] Ken discusses the three main factors of a project and talks about a key psychology tactic that has helped his business boost their closing percentage. “In our philosophy there are like three factors to a project. They’re timeline, scope, and budget we've adjusted our pipeline a little bit, and one of the things that has helped us close the most is like putting into place some sort of small, very low cost, essentially strategy product that allows the clients to test the waters with you at very low cost.” [20:07] Ken says that inserting this step, “develops trust, which builds in ownership to the solution. Also you kind of eliminate competition most of the time.” [28:20] Ken talks about his goal with this product was to create a clear deliverable product that benefits the client, impresses them, and allows them to see what they actually need and how his business can deliver. [32:00] Ken discusses how helping the client visualize the solution to their problem has a magical effect; it helps them feel confident moving forward. [34:25] Ken talks about how often price is thought of as equal to quality (higher price means higher quality), and because of this assumption, many people are willing to and even happy to pay a higher price. He also adds that, “no one really cares about money. We think we do, but we really care about the results of the money.” [38:02] Brad makes the point that he and his team feel more at peace about certain projects when they know that they’re being paid enough to uphold their high standard. “We're happier internally when we know we have enough.” [39:50] Ken adds on and says, “for projects where we haven't gotten paid enough, no one's happy.” [42:11] Brad analyzes the common belief that abundance means overpaid and how that isn’t true. “Abundance is enough.” [43:30] Bob talks about a way to communicate your financial needs in a way that is about serving the client and upholding the company’s standard. [46:44] Brad closes by talking about Mark Cuban and his pharmaceutical business and how, “Mark knows his lane. He knows exactly what that business is going to be. The key is to communicate to your potential client, this is who we are.” | |||
| Ep 119: Be in the time maximization business | 04 Nov 2022 | 00:48:47 | |
Subtitle: We’ve all waited in line for long periods of time, either by choice or necessity. As businesses, we want to be the business consumers choose to wait in line for, but be aware of what people pay for. It’s all about time, gaining more time, achieving something faster, and enjoying the time they spend. To that end, every business is in the time maximization business. On today’s episode, we break down the importance of time, time management, customer service, being proactive, pursuing purpose and meaning, and more on this week’s episode!
Summary: On today’s episode, Brad discusses a negative experience he had recently with the healthcare industry and how that’s helped him view customer service and time differently. One of the major lessons all businesses should take from Brad’s experience is customer service. No one likes waiting, and time is everyone’s most valuable asset. This is why customer service is so crucial. It’s also important to remember that your clients are, in a sense, your boss; you wouldn’t want to be disrespectful to or offend your boss. Because time is your most valuable asset, it’s important to manage it well. Whether it’s by blocking out chunks of your day on your calendar, having a checklist, or some other plan, figure out what works best for you to manage your time. Don’t waste your time; it’s limited and you can’t earn it back. This is way easier said than done, so one way to manage your time well is to not get sucked into reacting to and putting out the daily fires. Take a moment to assess the situation and then decide the level of urgency and if it’s an emergency and then go from there. Maybe have a time of day when you answer any of your team’s questions and understand the day’s squeaky wheels. Remember to pursue purpose and meaning over success and passion; those will come in time. In conclusion, maximizing your time and your customers’ time is the key to becoming the line they want and choose to wait in.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:31] Bob opens this week’s episode with a discussion about production. [2:48] Bob introduces the topic for this episode, time management and lessons to learn from the healthcare industry. [3:16] Brad talks about productivity and how he spends his time along with his struggles with time management. [6:47] Brad breaks down his recent experience with the healthcare industry and launches a discussion about the lessons all businesses should take from this experience. “There are two things that will bring people back to their health care providers. Number one is empathy, and number two is time.” [9:17] Ken says that, “if every business ran the way a health care hospital or doctor's office runs, most businesses will be out of business.” [11:11] Brad elaborates on his challenges with his recent experience and talks about his empathy for the dentist as well as his shared struggles. “I struggle with the same thing. I struggle with trying to run a business and also making sure our clients are satisfied and feeling like they’re serviced.” [12:52] Bob talks about some of the lessons to be learned from this experience as well as the shift the healthcare industry is having and the allowances that need to be made because of this shift. [17:17] Ken talks about the value of time and how it is often overlooked as the most valuable resource. [18:37] Ken says that it’s important to recognize your superpower and to leverage it so that people would want and choose to wait in line for you and your business. [23:03] Ken talks about the three things a business can do to earn other people’s time. “If you can determine what the problem is, be really really good at solving that problem, and become famous for that problem, you can have a line out your door.” [27:20] Brad discusses how this experience has impacted how he views customer service and interactions. [28:37] Brad asks the guys how they manage their time and avoid getting sucked into putting out fires all day. [29:05] Bob talks about how he uses task lists to motivate him and manage his time [32:29] Ken says that he is in between Brad and Bob and that he believes, “no matter what your personality is, in order to get something done, you need to focus on it. In order to focus, you need to develop the discipline muscle to not chase squeaky wheels. I do this with my customer in mind. I look at it as, okay, I'm going to decide if this is an emergency or not, not you. In order to have a successful, peaceful, well balanced agency or any service business, you need to take ownership of what you’re going to do and when.” [34:04] Bob summarizes Ken’s thoughts on how he manages his time. “Be the thermostat, not the thermometer.” [34:08] Ken talks about the importance of recognizing the process when measuring success by results. “You have to have the awareness of not just measuring success by the result, because the result may not be there.” [40:01] Bob discusses the book, “The War of Art” by Steven Pressfield and how it relates to this discussion of productivity and time management in the business world. [43:30] Bob wraps up by talking about the importance of pursuing purpose in order to find happiness, passion, and hopefully success. “Do not pursue success, but actually follow purpose. Don't pursue happiness, pursue purpose, and when you and when you pursue and are involved in purpose and meaning, passion will ensue.”
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| Ep 118: Remote vs In Office vs Hybrid... Which is best? | 21 Oct 2022 | 00:47:42 | |
Subtitle: *jeopardy countdown plays* “Which work environment is best: remote, in-office, or hybrid?” The answer to this question depends on what your goals, growth projections, team size, and personality are. There are pros and cons to all of these methods, and we unpack each of them as well as subleasing, mental health, office dogs, and more in this week’s episode!
Summary: On this week’s episode, we talk about the pros and cons of remote, in office, and hybrid work. Remote working makes it possible for your employees to have a flexible schedule, travel, and prioritize time with family and friends. In office working provides human connection, team camaraderie, and the potential for higher productivity. Hybrid work environments are a mix of both of these; a happy medium. Any of these methods could work well for your agency, but hybrid seems to be the most optimal. We dive deep on what elements are important to have in an office to create a healthy place where your employees can grow and thrive creatively while being productive. We also explore what the workforce will look like and want in five years as well as the importance of having a holistic perspective for your business. All of these things depend on the goals you have for your business, the size of your team, your personality, and your dreams and desires.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:
Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:42] Ken opens this week’s episode by chatting with the guys about the interview with Rogan and Zuckerburg, technology, social media, and mental health. [5:08] Ken talks about how humans struggle with addictions to technology and how wisdom and restraint will become increasingly necessary as technology advances. [10:20] Bob discusses how there are many different ways to run your business as a result of the pandemic. “It's an interesting time, because while there's so many agency owners that have gotten rid of office space altogether, there's some that are going back to the office. And most are doing some sort of hybrid. There's pros and cons to all of those.” [13:38] Ken talks about the net positive and net negative effects of hybrid and remote work. He also discusses convenience and how often, “as you grow, you learn that convenience is not necessarily serving you.” [16:35] Bob discusses some of the benefits of a hybrid work environment. “The hybrid model seems to be the most optimal of all the studies. You can get that team creativity and workflow and face to face, which is really important, but you also get the freedom.” [18:00] Bob says that the best work environment depends on your desires, personality, and management style. [21:25] Brad asks the guys, “Five years down the road, you have to move into offices. You may stay partially remote, maybe not, you never know. What kind of stuff would you need for sure at that office for your employees to thrive there?” [22:48] Bob answers Brad’s question and discusses the importance of team size, growth projections, and what the goal of the space is. [24:42] Brad talks about the possibility of purchasing extra office space and leasing it out until his company needs that space. [27:23] Ken talks about defining the vision and future goals for the business, size and the cost associated with it, and subleasing. [30:04] Brad discusses the benefits of subleasing as well as the idea of purchasing and owning a space. “We could have 60% of the office, and then sublease 40%, which actually helps us subsidize our own fees and rent. I also like that there's people, even if they don't work for us, with different ideas and different backgrounds.” [31:27] Brad talks the guys through a few of the things he’s taking into consideration as he plans for his company’s new office space. [33:12] Bob asks the guys, “five years from now, what's the workforce going to look like?”, igniting a discussion about what a workplace should look like and how it can become a place your employees want to work. [35:55] Ken elaborates on what he believes is the ideal work space. “Ideally, people come here because that's the best place for them to work. And they deal with some frictions in life, because it's worth it. You've got everything you need to do a really good, productive day of work that you believe is better than in your bedroom. How do we make this the best place in my employees’ mind?” [38:54] Bob talks about the importance of taking a more holistic approach to business. [41:35] Ken closes with a chat about office dogs and says that he tells his kids, “If you want a dog, pray that God changes my heart. Because I can't take a dog right now.” | |||
| Ep 135: More rest, more value, more profit = better life | 15 Sep 2023 | 00:50:10 | |
Subtitle: Dive into a world where business insights blend with the rhythm of excellence, as we unpack the essence of the "Messi Effect." Just as a catchy jingle sticks in your mind, on today’s episode, we explore how aligning strengths and impeccable timing can revolutionize success. Join the guys as they discuss how to simplify the complex, fine-tune your abilities, and conduct your own symphony of achievement.
Summary: In this week's episode, the guys talk about their summer experiences, rest, value, profit, simplicity, and more. Ken shares his family's annual trip to upstate New York, emphasizing the significance of establishing deep familial connections in the Adirondacks. Brad delves into his newfound intentional rhythm for managing tasks and avoiding feeling overwhelmed. Bob describes his Florida vacation and the highlight of his summer – witnessing Lionel Messi's debut in MLS. He extrapolates important life and business lessons from Messi's approach, highlighting the value of understanding one's strengths, staying focused, and delivering when the time is right. The discussion shifts to business matters. Ken outlines positive changes his business has made, underlining the importance of proper pricing and recommending reframing the term "agency" to bring about transformative shifts. Ken introduces a tool called Harpa for analyzing longer texts and segues into the "Messi Effect," advising businesses to focus on their core strengths and remain within their expertise. The conversation touches on the tendency to overlook simple solutions and the value of practicing intentional simplicity. Brad observes that relentless busyness doesn't necessarily drive business growth, while Bob introduces the effort justification bias as it relates to focusing on strengths. Brad advocates for setting aside personal time to enhance creative flow and cognitive capabilities. Bob concludes the episode by stressing the need to balance and nurture both sides of the brain, preventing burnout and cognitive overload by renewing, resting, and reviving mental capacities.
Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:
For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:
About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob: Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad: Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:
Show Notes: [0:35] Brad opens this week’s episode with the idea that the guys should have a jingle for Agency Exposed. [1:30] Bob asks the guys what they did this summer. [2:00] Ken talks about his family’s trip to upstate New York to the Adirondacks and the value of putting down deep familial roots. “I've gone every year for my entire life. It's just a special place for us.” [7:55] Brad tells the guys about his new 1980 Porsche and his trips up to Michigan. [12:15] Brad also breaks down his new intentional rhythm he’s been creating over the summer. “I feel like this summer I have been able to kind of just create more of a rhythm and it's been really helpful…there's a point where you start feeling overwhelmed, and you really don't know why. You have to stop and take a look at your day and try to figure out how do I do what I need to do, but not feel overwhelmed when I'm doing it?” [14:07] Bob talks about his vacations to Florida and his highlight of the summer, seeing Lionel Messi play his first MLS game. “There's just something amazing about watching people that are like the highest elite level of their game.” [18:05] Bob breaks down some important life and business lessons he’s learned from Messi. “He knows his lane. He knows what He's good at. And he doesn't try to be anything. But when it’s time for him to stand up, he delivers. He doesn't try to be all things and doesn't try to defend. His timing is impeccable. He's always passing, he's unselfish.” [19:44] Bob segues into a new topic by asking the guys about their businesses. [19:57] Ken mentions some of the positive changes his business has made, the importance of pricing, and why you shouldn’t call yourself an agency. “Change the name to change the game.” [23:35] Brad talks about AI, its explosive growth, and the potential for all businesses. [24:11] Bob adds that it’s important to, “stop yourself and go, what can I automate, and what can I make more efficient with this tool?” [27:18] Ken tells the guys about Harpa, a tool he uses to analyze and understand longer or larger texts. [29:50] Ken talks about “The Messi Effect”, and how to apply it to your business. “I think it comes down to like doing what you're really, really good at, and just staying in that lane.” [33:51] Ken discusses the tendency to overlook the simple answer, and the importance of intentionally practicing simplicity. “It took me a long time to realize that we as humans are conditioned to think that the simple solution is not the right solution…The thing that you are really good at, just do a lot of that thing. So don't jump to the other side.” [37:19] Brad adds on saying, “I've noticed that,I felt like in business that if I wasn't running hard, that wasn't moving the needle in my business. That never gets you anywhere.” [39:36] Bob mentions an important psychological principle, effort justification bias, and relates it to pursuing the simple; focusing on your strengths and assets. [41:11] Ken talks about the importance of your time because it’s, “the most valuable thing in your life. And it's the only thing that you have to really leverage into doing something of worth or good.” [46:51] Brad discusses the value in setting time aside for yourself to prepare and reset in order to maximize your brain’s capabilities. “In the creative space, the flow is what gets your juices going, but you have to shut everything out. Allow your brain to maximize its capability. It's soothing and healing.” [47:57] Bob closes this week’s episode by talking about the importance of accessing both parts of the brain to prevent burnout or cognitive overload. “You have to renew it, and you have to rest it, and you have to revive it.” | |||