Leadership 2.0 – Détails, épisodes et analyse

Unfortunately, nowadays one look at a television news bulletin or a glance at a newspaper cover is enough to see the dark side of leadership. However, many people do not need to switch on the TV or read the paper to witness this; instead, they experience the dark side of leadership every day within their own organizations. They happen to work for "Psychopath Lights"—or, as Manfred Kets de Vries likes to call them 'Seductive Operational Bullies' (SOBs).

In the 36th episode of the Leadership 2.0 podcast, I interview Manfred Kets de Vries, who has published extensively on this topic. During our conversation, Manfred and I discussed the following:

• 00:00 Why do people want to lead others?
• 02:32 Why do people want to be led?
• 11:05 The Dark Dyad and Psychopaths Lights (SOBs) 
• 16:51 Why are SOBs attracted to the Financial Sector?
• 21:30 Can SOBs Be coached?
• 26:38 The Impact of Life Changing Circumstances On SOBs
• 35:21 Strategies for SOB victims
• 40:45 Why Leaders Should Understand Their Shadow Side

► About Manfred Kets de Vries

Manfred F. R. Kets de Vries is the Distinguished Clinical Professor of Leadership Development and Organisational Change and the Raoul de Vitry d'Avaucourt Chaired Professor of Leadership Development, Emeritus, at INSEAD. 

His specific areas of interest are leadership, career dynamics, executive stress, entrepreneurship, family business, succession planning, cross-cultural management, team building, coaching, and the dynamics of corporate transformation and change. Manfred F. R. Kets de Vries directs The Challenge of Leadership Executive Education programme.

He is the founder of the INSEAD Global Leadership Centre, the programme director of INSEAD's top management seminar The Challenge of Leadership, and the scientific director of the INSEAD Executive Master in Change. He has received the INSEAD Distinguished Teacher Award five times. He has held professorships at McGill University, the Ecole des Hautes Etudes Commerciales, Montreal, and the Harvard Business School, and has lectured at management institutions around the world.

Financial Times, Le Capital, Wirtschaftswoche, and The Economist rated Manfred Kets de Vries as one of the world's top fifty leading management thinkers, as well as one of the most influential contributors to human resource management. 

In 2008, he received the Lifetime Achievement Award from the International Leadership Association (the Leadership Legacy Project), being viewed as one of the world’s six founding professionals in the development of leadership as a field and discipline.

He is the author, co-author or editor of forty-nine books and has published over 400 papers as articles or chapters in books. His books and articles were translated into thirty-one languages. He is a member of seventeen editorial boards. 

Kets de Vries is a consultant on organisational design/transformation and strategic human resource management to leading US, Canadian, European, African, and Asian companies. As an educator and consultant, he has worked in more than forty countries.

► Kets De Vries Institute (KDVI) https://kdvi.com/

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'Lost in Business Transformation'

Despite the fact that there is a solid body of knowledge about the topic of change management for several decades already, McKinsey's infamous notion that '70% of all change management efforts fail' is still seen as adequately representing the current situation.

Rupert Brown is an experienced chief people officer and change management specialist with extensive expertise in mergers, acquisitions, digital transformation, joint ventures, and turnarounds. Through his book 'Lost in Transformation', Rupert aims to deliver a candid, emotionally intelligent manifesto for doing transformation differently. 

In the 35th episode of the Leadership 2.0 podcast, I interview Rupert about his book and how organizations can ensure the success of their change management efforts.

• Why Transformation projects continue to fail
• The difference between Change and Transformation
• The Bad Reputation of the word 'Transformation'
• Why we still struggle with Change Management  
• In-Groups and Out-Groups in Change Management Processes  
• Chief Acceleration Officers
• Trust is Energy
• Crises as Catalysts for Change
• The impact of our Permacrisis on Change Management 
• Behavioral Skills to cope with the BANI world'
• Change Management and AI

► About Rupert Brown

Rupert Brown is an experienced chief people officer and change management specialist with extensive expertise in mergers, acquisitions, digital transformation, joint ventures, and turnarounds. His insights are captured in this book that emphasizes leading change in various organizations.
Rupert has worked for and advised global multinationals like Procter & Gamble, Gillette, and A.P. Moller-Maersk, as well as nimble, private equity-backed, and family-owned businesses across diverse sectors such as consumer goods, shipping, software, telecommunications, education, and not-for-profit. His knowledge is particularly valuable for those feeling lost in transformation initiatives.

► Book https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lost-Transformation-Discover-Leadership-Derailing/dp/B0FQ1FWCKD

► Website https://rupert-brown.com/

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Even though, for years, we have had a vast array of change management theories and methodologies at our disposal (Kotter, Lewin, Kubler-Ross, Bridges, ADKAR, etc.), it still proves to be very hard for us as leaders and consultants to implement real, sustainable change (transformation). Most change projects fail (70% according to McKinsey), or end with a superficial victory declaration, after which the organization often falls back to  'the way we DID things here'.

 'Why is that?' That very question drove Daniël Wolfs, experienced change consultant and co-founder of The Change Studio, to write his thought-provoking book De Veranderfilosoof (The Change Philosopher) on how we can approach transformation in a deeper, more human, and more sustainable way.'

In our conversation about this book, we discussed the following topics:

1. The Why of this book
2. Fake News’ in Organizations
3. ‘Storytelling’ versus ‘Storyselling’
4. Preventing entropy in change processes
5. The ‘Shifting Baseline’ Syndrome
6. The Soul of Organizations
7. The Plessner Paradox: Individual identities in collective change processes
8. Focusing on the change instead of the outcome
9. Why Daniel is fascinated by change
10. Final thoughts

► About Daniël Wolfs

Daniël Wolfs is co-founder and co-owner of The Change Studio, where he works with clients and colleagues on modern approaches to organizational change and leadership. The guiding principles: Lead. Inspire. Create.
 
He is the author of the book 'De Veranderfilosoof '- op zoek naar de kern van verandering ('The Change Philosopher - Searching for the core of change'), in which he explores both the visible and invisible dynamics of organizational change.
Drawing on philosophy, systems thinking, and real-world cases, he challenges conventional change management with fresh perspectives and provocative questions.
 
Daniël has spent his career helping leaders and organizations navigate complex transformations—by making change tangible in the day-to-day, and by creating space for the kind of conversations that actually move people.
Whether guiding leadership teams, designing change journeys, or deconstructing old patterns, his work is rooted in connection, reflection, and practical momentum.
 
Through writing, speaking, and advising, he continues to explore how we can make change not just possible—but meaningful.

PS: 'Publisher beware': the book has just been published in Dutch, so please contact the author in case your are interested to publish a translation (email below)!

► Resources

Email Daniël Wolfs: daniel@thechangestudio.nl

The Book

The Change Studio

Podcast episode Murray Stein

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Most organizations use complex tools and processes, and are often supported by external consultants to analyze and (re) shape their culture. When I heard Manuela Staub on a seminar describing the pragmatic, inclusive, and effective way the leadership team at Zurich Airport approached their culture change program (in the midst of the COVID19 pandemic!), I immediately knew I wanted to interview her for my Leadership 2.0 podcast...

In our conversation, we discussed the following topics:

00:00 About Zurich Airport 
02:13 The Why of the culture change
06:50 The COACH values
08:39 Identifying the cultural values
10:08 Why no external consultants were used
11:41 Implementing the new values
17:21 Embedding the new values in HR processes 
19:39 An example of the impact of these values
22:00 Are cultural values industry specific


► About Manuela Staub

Manuela Staub joined Flughafen Zürich AG as Head of Corporate Communications in 2020. In June 1st, 2022, she became a member of the management board and Head of the People & Communications. In this role she is responsible for People & Culture, Corporate Communications, Public Affairs, and Visitor Services & Events. 

Manuela studied Communications Management (University of Lugano) and Strategic HR Management (University of Skt. Gallen). Prior to joining Zurich Airport, she worked in a number of different roles in Swisscom. Additionally, she is the co-founder of 'the Boardroom', an organization aiming to bridge the gender gap in the boardroom.

► Resources

Purpose and strategy Zurich Airport https://www.flughafen-zuerich.ch/en/company/flughafen-zuerich/about-us/strategy

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In this episode I interview Deborah Perry Piscione about her latest book: ‘Employment Is Dead: How Disruptive Technologies Are Revolutionizing the Way We Work’, which she wrote together with Josh Drean. 

The central theme of this book is that traditional employment models are becoming outdated due to the evolving needs and expectations of the modern workforce, facilitated by disruptive technologies. 

This will lead to the end of the traditional employment model, as well as the traditional form as companies, as we know them today.

In our conversation, Deborah and I touched on the following topics:

• What is the new workforce, what do they want, and why?
• The importance of Blockchain for the future of work
• Companies that are early movers in this space
• The Gig Economy: Utopia or Dystopia
• How individuals should prepare themselves for the future of work
• Implications for our education system
• How should established companies prepare themselves 
• The role HR should play in this transition
• The role for national governments  
• The popularity of the book 
•  Final Thoughts

► About Deborah Perry Piscione 

As a serial entrepreneur, Deborah (co) founded five companies, including the Work3 Institute, an advisory firm that helps enterprises evolve into an AI, web3 + work3 future of business, and where she is serving as CEO. Deborah Is also a thought leader in innovation, AI + web3, advisor, New York Times bestselling author, LinkedIn author, serial entrepreneur, and global keynote speaker. 

Earlier books (co) authored by Deborah Perry Piscione are  'Secrets of Silicon Valley: What Everyone Else Can Learn From the Innovation Capital of the World', 'The Risk Factor: Why Every Organization Needs Big Bets, Bold Characters, and the Occasional Spectacular Failure ', and 
'The People Equation: Why Innovation Is People, Not Products'

She also developed Improvisational Innovation™, a bottom-up methodology that engages all the talents of the entire organization, helps the organization shift to a growth mode, and addresses the question on how to identify, source, data-mine and execute upon new ideas from any employee.

► Resources

• Employment is Dead https://www.amazon.com/Employment-Dea...
  
  
• Work3 Institute https://work3.me/

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Ralph Schonenbach is a serial entrepreneur with over two decades of global experience, as well as an author. His work centers around developing and nurturing relationships. In this episode of the Leadership 2.0 podcast we talk about his latest start-up, Meerkat.ai, as well as about his book 'Relationships matter'.

In this conversation, we touch on the following topics:

• Why relationships matter
• Why his latest start-up is called 'Meerkats.ai'
• The value Meerkats.ai delivers for clients
• Example of a use case
• The businessmodel of Meerkats.ai 
• Data Privacy
• Getting to know Meerkats.ai – Participate in the pilot (pilot@meerkats.ai)
• Why his book 'Relationships matter' starts with "self-management"
• Why the book is not restricted to professional relationships
• Are (all) professional relationships transactional
• Re) building relationship when you need them
• The unique value face-to-face relationships and communities can offer the business world that digital relationships and communities cannot
• What Ralph means with 'digital etiquette.'
• Final thoughts

► About Ralph Schonenbach

Ralph Schonenbach started his career in Andersen Business Consulting, and moved on to Ernst & Young and later CGI. Subsequently, he co-founded the Trestle Group Consulting and Foundation. In 2016 he co-founded Envoy, in 2019 Aidentified, and in 2024 Meerkats.ai. He also found the time to write, and in 2025 published 'Relationships Matter: From Self-Discovery to an Enriched Life'.

► Resources

- Ralph's book: Relationships matter

- Register here to participate in the pilot: pilot@trymeerkat.ai

- Ralph Schonenbach on LinkedIn

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The image of the banking industry has been severely tarnished by the financial crisis (2007-2008), which led to increasing regulatory and compliance demands. At the same time, the industry is experiencing emerging competition from FinTechs, evolving business models, and disruptive technologies. In light of these challenges, I recently spoke with Ralph Hamers, to explore his views on what effective leadership in the banking sector entails.

In our conversation, we touched on the following topics:

1 Why Ralph decided to join the banking industry
2 When and why did innovation become an important theme for him?
3 How 'traditional' banks should deal with Fintech companies
4 The culture change required in traditional banks
5 Addressing the image of the banking industry
6 The impact of technological developments on compliance costs
7 How to create successful top teams in the banking world
8 How to develop and foster a collective ethical mindset
9 Final thoughts

► About Ralph Hamers

Ralph Hamers advises both established and emerging players in the finance and digital industries. As former CEO of ING and UBS, he successfully led these global banks through significant transformations.

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‘We want to help candidates to move from jobs they like, to jobs they love’ - Victor Akwunwa.

The commoditization of human capital in recruitment processes leads to unsatisfactory outcomes for the companies and the candidates concerned. For companies, recruitment has become a volume game where KPI’s have replaced quality. For candidates because the unique value they can bring to organizations is not acknowledged in traditional recruitment processes.

I recently had a conversation with Victor Akwunwa, the Chief Sales Officer of Found, a Swiss start-up company that wants to disrupt this traditional approach. During our conversation, we discussed the following topics:

• What is  Found
• Why recruitment is ready for disruption
• The operating model of Found
• The Technology Found uses
• Identifying the culture of the client  
• The target markets of Found
• The long-term goals of Found
• The (dis)advantages of being a Swiss Based Start-Up 
• Giving up a blossoming corporate career to join a start-up

► About Found;

Found is a Swiss start-up that aims to change how hiring works.  In their own words:

‘The hiring process can be bleak. Job boards prioritise volume over accuracy, leading to talent being overlooked amid overwhelming numbers of applications. Meanwhile, traditional recruiters cling to outdated practices, relying on subjective judgment, and charging exorbitant fees. 
We believe it's time for change. We're dismantling outdated recruitment models using the power of data and technology. Our approach uses fast, data-driven AI matching and has employers pitch to talent, instead of talent having to apply.
The result? A revolution in recruitment with companies finding the perfect talent, and talent finding their perfect job.'
Website Found

► About Victor Akwunwa

Victor Akwunwa obtained a Master of Science Degree (with honors) at the Tilburg University in the Netherlands. In 2015  he joined the Adecco Group, a global staffing company, where he quickly rose through the ranks through a variety of sales, and other customer-facing roles. In 2023 he joined the start-up Found as Head of Sales, and subsequently was promoted to Chief Sales Officer (CSO).
LinkedIn Profile Victor Akwunwa

► Important keywords and concepts in this conversation:

Community-based hiring - Operating model - Driving value for talent - Matching accuracy - Talent  Talent Segments - Start-up - Swiss start-up -  Neuroscience - Overcommodization recruitment - Acceptance rate Neural networks - Building versus operating the machine - IFL -Culture Venture capital

► Blogposts  about Recruitment by Dirk Verburg:

⇨ The Corporate Recruitment process is ready for disruption
⇨ Corporate Recruiters should stop spraying & praying

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There are some companies I deeply admire, and On, the Swiss sports and apparel brand is definitely one of them! Not only do they make amazing products and have an extremely powerful brand, they also have a unique company culture.

For this reason, I was thrilled to sit down with Alessandra del Pino, Head of Engagement & Talent Growth at On, to discuss the company culture of On, or, as Alessandra describes it, their 'secret sauce'.

During our conversation, we covered the following topics:

• Alessandra's role at On
• The mission and values ('spirits') of On
• How the mission and values are kept alive
• How the impact of the mission and values is measured
• An example of a mission - value driven decision in On
• Embedding the culture - Recruitment
• Embedding the culture - Performance Management
• Embedding the culture - Talent Management
• The expectations of People Leaders in On

About On
 
‘On was born in the Swiss Alps with one goal: to revolutionize the sensation of running by empowering all to run on clouds. Since its market launch in 2010, On delivers industry-disrupting innovation in premium footwear, apparel, and accessories for high-performance running, outdoor,
training, all-day activities and tennis. On is present in more than 60 countries globally and is believed to be one of the fastest-growing scaled athletic sports companies in the world’. The company employs more than 2.300 staff and generated net sales of CHF 1,792.1 in 2023 (source Annual report)

About Alessandra del Pino

Alessandra del Pino is Head of Engagement & Talent Growth at On. After studying Sociology in Venezuela, she started a journey in HR which would take her across the globe, working for completely different companies in different industries. Alessandra started her career in 2011 working for Groupon in Spain, before moving to Burger King. In 2015 she moved to Canada to for Restaurant Brands International, a company she also worked for both in Canada, as well as Switzerland. In 2019 she joined On, first as a Talent Business Partner, and later as Head of Engagement & Talent Growth.
Alessandra likes running (not surprising!), Spanish wines (same), good food, and traveling.

Important keywords and concepts in the conversation

Values as spirits - Spirit award - Rituals to express the company culture - Trust and Collaboration as key values - Wall-less office - No reception - Well being - Dealing with low performers - Team members instead of Staff or Employees

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‘Everyone who wins nowadays is challenging the Shareholder Value Maximization doctrine’

This is just one of the powerful and thought-provoking statements Professor Michael Pirson (Fordham University - Gabelli School of Business) made when I interviewed him about 'Humanistic Management'.

In the last decades, the shortcomings of the neo-liberal economic order in our society have become clearer than ever (e.g. the credit crunch, climate change, and wars). An increasing number of people want to move away from a system that commoditizes human beings, and the natural environment in which they live. They seek, amongst others, dignity, a sense of purpose, and attention to well-being, instead of material prosperity only.

Humanistic Management is a relatively young academic movement that seeks to create a more balanced relationship between those things that can be exchanged on markets and those that are not but make life worthwhile.

Michael Pirson is an active member of this movement, and in this episode of the Leadership 2.0 podcast, I discuss with him

1️⃣  What Humanistic Management is
2️⃣ How Michael discovered Humanistic Management
3️⃣ What we as mankind can learn from the Covid 19 Pandemic
4️⃣ Measuring Wealth versus Wellbeing 
5️⃣ Will Shareholder Value (Economistic Management) not always prevail?
6️⃣ Is Humanistic Management 'industry agnostic'?
7️⃣  Resources on Humanistic Management
8️⃣  Final Thoughts

About Michael Pirson

Michael Pirson, Ph.D., is the chair of the Leading People and Organizations Area within the Gabelli School of Business. He is the James A. F. Stoner Endowed Chair in Global Sustainability and is a full professor with a focus on global sustainability and social entrepreneurship. Michael is a research associate at Harvard University’s Human Flourishing Program (HFP). He co-founded the Humanistic Management Network and is founder and president of the International Humanistic Management Association. He is the editor in chief of the Humanistic Management Journal.

Additionally he is a full member of the Club of Rome, leads the Humanistic Management working group at the UNPRME, and advises a number of social enterprises. He has won numerous awards for his work including from the Academy of Management and the Association of Jesuit Universities.

Website

https://www.humanetwork.org/

Publications

https://www.fordham.edu/gabelli-school-of-business/faculty/full-time-faculty/michael-pirson/

Other resources

https://www.youtube.com/user/HumanisticManagementhttps://www.youtube.com/@UCLQhzwfw3QgAtLv_h5P9N3Q 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEGqEeiA5c0

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