Job Seekers Radio – Détails, épisodes et analyse

Show Notes

Do you want to help your network find jobs? Many of us do! Sometimes it’s hard to know exactly how you might be able to help your network that is productive.

Learn some strategies and tips on how to support job seekers from Andrew and Scott in this episode.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• What is coaching and how can I coach others.
• How to be available and supportive.
• What to do when people ask for your help to find work.
• When to ask questions and when to give advice.
• Side effects and benefits of supporting others.
• Building skills like understanding, empathy and helping others find their own way.
• Who and how to reach out proactively.
• Offering and doing mock interviews.
• Thoughts on reverse brainstorming or being the “devil’s advocate”.
• Facilitating networking connections.
• Don’t ask for a resume unless you have a job or capacity to 100% endorse for a job.
• Do for one what you wish you could do for many.
• Create template for responding to outreaches you may not be able to give full attention.

Resources (including affiliate links)

Networking Checklist

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:04 – 00:05:06

To John, singers radio I’m Scott. I’m Andrew this production is meant to provide meaningful support for you listener to find a great career faster whether you’re working or not. Today’s episode is brought to you by the anatomy of the networking conversation. It’s an e book and a free resource that we’ve created that you can download at seekers radio DOT com. Today’s episode were talking about how you as the listener can support others around you as a coach or a support mechanism to help them maybe in a time of need. Yes. We’re not talking about the kind of coaching that Andrew and I do where there’s a process that we help people get through that. We’re looking at outcomes and everything else coaching can actually be. Done in many different ways and and just just professional coaching. There’s the difference between the kind of coach that instructs and the other kind of coach that works with self-discovery, and we’re not going to go down that road. What we want to do is to set up the idea of making yourself available to help other people work through their stuff to be a resource. You think okay I’m not in a capacity I don’t have the capability. I’m not trained up or have the experience that Scott in Andrew have what value could I possibly have to those around me that are in need of employment that’s what we’re talking about as just as uncomfortable as it is for them to be looking for employment, it might be as equally uncomfortable for you to talk to them about it right for a number of reasons for whatever. There’s lots of reasons. especially if you are also looking for work, you don’t you’re not working at the time and somebody is asking you for advice. I worked to why. They right if I had all the answers. Well, that’s the thing. Often. We find the answers through helping other people and it’s something that I’m sure you’ve heard I’m sure we’ve even talked about it to some degree in prior podcasts the idea of making yourself available to to network with people to talk to other people you get as much if not more of the conversation than the one asking you we want to start by saying when someone asks you to coach them say yes. It doesn’t matter if you are the best coach in the world, what matters is that you are there for them. And it may not be that they’re asking you to be coached. They may just say, Hey, i. need help and that’s an admission on their side that they appreciate you. They honor potentially your contributions in your your advice, your perspective, it’s not them. Coming to you and demanding right something back. It’s them coming to you with open hand saying I need help. It could come in another form where people are reaching out to you thinking you might have a job. This is an opportunity to reset conversation and actually help them through potentially a networking process to execute best practices. But right now at a very basic level, all some people really need is someone to listen because they may not be getting responses on applications they may not be getting interviews, they may reach out to you from a position of. Nervousness and self doubt and perhaps even anxiety just be available I mean it’s not as difficult as we make it sound say, yes, there’s something that comes by asking questions and that’s I think the difference between a coach and a consultant right so when we’re coaching, we actually have a different hat on where were asking questions to get to space that you already want to go. So we’re not trying to lead you to a space you. You maybe don’t Wanna go or that’s mutually beneficial for both of us that would probably be closer. To sales and leading somebody to a destination that I want them to go would be manipulation of the highest degree. We don’t want that either. But what we’re talking about here in terms of your capacity to be available is just ask questions you know, what are you experiencing where you know you don’t have to make any statements you don’t have to offer them anything other than your ear to listen and ask questions that’s going to do a couple of things for the audience. By the way, it’s going to allow you to be seen. As somebody who cares which is always good. So that’s a reputation you get to take away. So you do get benefit not by telling or You know doing these other activities that aren’t gonNA lead to any kind of positive outcome for both of you. One of the things that comes to my mind as I think about being unemployed especially unemployed for any period of time is the idea of not being heard when were in the the the work place one of the things that I talked about internal communication and.

00:05:06 – 00:10:18

Internal Service is the idea of gossip and how every company you’re going to hear especially in HR. Oh, gossip is a bad thing. It’s destructive. It’s poison. It’s this that and all of that is true. It happens for a reason and it’s usually because someone feels that they’re not being heard will that is absolutely true when we’re in a job search, there is no one then there to hear us one of the things that that I learned in my coaching training was to start the conversation with what’s going on for you. It isn’t about giving them a gripe session or letting them complain. First of all, we judge Griping and complaining way too much mainly because generally people don’t understand how to help others get solutions but that’s a different conversation. The idea is let them be heard. By being that listening ear, you’re allowing the other person to feel heard to feel like you’re there to listen that you’re actually someone who cares. These are all really nice things to feel you’re helping them by getting it out getting it out of their head if you’re taking notes so much the better because then you can start looking at any patterns that may show up things that they’re not noticing and then. By. Asking more questions about what they understand about what they’ve just talked about they can start putting things together for themselves. You have to come up with the answers because they’re going to do all that for themselves and you just eliminated a dependent relationship. There’s been fit all around that not only are you building reputation and you’re adding value but this is a what what goes around comes around kind of thing. That if you help this person and then you’re in that same space six months a year two years from now then you have somebody you can lean into that. You demonstrated that you were that type of person and the there’s an opportunity there for you to open a door that that maybe it was closed before I would say as you’re asking these questions, my tendency for example, is to them because I. Connect. I. That is what I seek in any interaction is that connection and I have a habit when I hear them telling me their story I, then tell them my story that kind of mirroring is natural. Everyone does that to some degree now people like me we tend to to share easily other people tend not to share so easily and that’s okay. The idea of sharing needs to go back and forth. If you’re like me pay attention to what they are saying. Behind the words that they’re using because. So often, and this is the the although Stephen Covey gets the credit for it. It was said long before him will you listen to reply not to understand it happens in most of our conversations where someone will say something that triggers a thought on my hand I stopped listening except for that opening so that I can reply instead you can connect just as well. If you listen to what they’re talking about and ask another question asked a question that helps refine what they just said. To, get them one step farther or to be a little clearer whatever that may be. Get in the habit of asking a second question. That is going to help not only that person feel that you care. It’s going to help them actually get ahead in their own path and you’re now practicing a skill you can work for yourself and you’re not in a position where you just constantly adding advice I know I as a man I suppose you could say it that way. I’m always looking for ways to fix things to make things better right. So I’m always looking for the solution before I’ve had a chance to understand the problem. I don’t know that that’s necessarily dealing with sex I think most us at least in the United States we are taught as we grow up in business that we need to be solutions oriented. We need a solution what problem you’re trying to solve. I can’t tell you how many times in how many organizations I’ve been in whether as an employer consultant they asked me well, what problem are we trying solve? Why do you need a problem? What if you want to do something proactive? Well, we’re not accustomed to doing that it doesn’t have to be your solution that needs to be found here. Maybe you need. To Guide them through asking these questions so that they find their own solution, which is far more valuable because they’re actually going to be motivated to do it, and when they come to you the they know that you’re going to act in this way. Then you’re not in a position of hand to give advice after advice after, and now I become the reputation of guy that has all the answers and none of them were in the market none none of the good questions to help me, and then when you go to knock on that door six months a year from now, it’s not going to open.

00:10:19 – 00:15:03

So. That’s something to think about now and and I’m sure as you through and listen to some of our podcast episodes. You’re probably gonNA think of somebody that is going or is exhibiting some of these things that we’re talking about and what I’ve gotten in the habit of in this is taken, some practice is actually reaching out to that person right when. I think about them if I have time if I’m in the middle of something that’s different. I usually think of it as going to sleep at night or as I wake up at five in the morning. Yeah. Well, I mean not a good time to talk but that’s a good time to say what I really need to reach out to this person. Follow up not from a position of self interest but from a position of you know, are you okay are you getting through this search? All right. There’s gotta be somebody that you know that comes into your mind during the day or during our conversations on seekers radio that you should reach out to, and if it does you should yes. Yup I agree that in the habit of shooting people we talk. At. Don’t should yourself you should do this I. I completely agree don’t pass up the opportunities when somebody comes to mind and I’m not suggesting that there’s some mystical aspect of this worse He’s thinking of me on. It it’s just don’t lose that opportunity. Hey, you came to my mind today. How are you put yourself in that person’s position? Doesn’t it feel good when somebody calls you out of the blue and says, Hey, I was thinking about today how you doing right and then you can ask those questions what’s going on for you right now what are you learning through this time? Whatever it is that they’re telling you how does this apply to what patterns they’ve seen or where they go because you’re going to get as much or more out of that conversation as they do. To get in the habit at part of being an effective leader or somebody that’s in the marketplace looking for opportunity, you may be an Aja, but you don’t know that you need another one just yet. But as being proactive yourself by reaching out to these people offering support you really laying the groundwork so that if that does happen, you’re you’re prepared right another thing that I really like that you’ve just reminded me of is offering to those people that you know who are looking for work to do a mock interview just to practice their interviewing skills because as the interviewer you have to be aware of what those interviewing skills are, and you’re simply reinforcing your own interviewing skills by being the interviewer. Absolutely if anyone this is my advice if anyone asks you to help them through a mock interview, say, yes you both benefit and it’s something that super easy you don’t have to you don’t have to really. Reach out to anybody or coach anybody just hey, it’s an interview right something. You could even offer I suppose to do for that person. You know if you ever have an interview I’m open I’m open to helping you with that. So if you’re the type of person that’s really good at those interpersonal communications or or perhaps you’re in a domain where you’re doing a lot of interviewing yourself and so it’s second nature to you to see what’s good or what’s not that yeah that would be something. You could easily role play and provide an invaluable tool to help these folks be ready. Now, I don’t know outside of helping somebody meet their future spouse. Right that you actually introduced that person to their spouse. I. Don’t think there’s anything higher than that than helping somebody find a good job. and. So if you had even a little bit of contribution in that process, it feels good. Feels real good. Does doing something for others supporting other people in their moment of need helps you in yours it gets you out of your own head. It gets you out of your own cycles. Those those vicious circles that you can that your mind can get yourself in putting yourself out there and really. Starting, to think in new ways. Now, another thing we may have talked about this concept at a in a prior podcast, but I thought it applied here to is the idea of doing reverse brainstorming and where that came in in my own thinking was the idea of playing devil’s advocate. Okay. So you’re talking to somebody who is struggling with something and you’re going to play devil’s advocate my first thought was. Be Very careful because I’ve been the devil’s advocate in the past and all I did was shut the person down more because I kept asking questions that triggered their doubt.

00:15:03 – 00:20:12

So if you’re dealing with somebody who is in that situation where they’re just sort of spinning in their own, a process that I learned relatively recently over the couple of years was reverse brainstorming. It’s a hypothetical conversation so you’re already by. Setting it up as hypothetical you’re talking about what is not real? It lowers the stakes somebody can get out of their own head. Okay. We’re going to do something a little differently. What reverse brainstorming does is instead of going for what you want brainstorming the outcome you want you brainstorm the outcome you don’t want. So let’s say you’re looking for work. Well, what can you do to fail at getting a job? Let’s put out on a piece of paper, a whiteboard whatever you have available to you. Let’s look at all the things that you can do to prevent yourself from getting a job and you start writing all this stuff. Now take it to the next step. So somebody actually reaches out to you to do some networking. What can you do to make that fail and you’re right all those things down that’d be fun exercise wouldn’t it? You now have a list of all the things that you can avoid doing. That are going to take your chances do the things that are the opposite of all of those ideas or I could stay at home. Okay. Don’t stay home I could tell the person now. Don’t say no. Reverse brainstorming is a very simple and very successful way to start coming up with ideas that will lead you to success and you don’t have to play devil’s advocate to do. It could be that instead of calling it reverse brainstorming you just talk about a hypothetical third-party, right? Okay. My friend Jerry or my my my sister Sophia or something. And that way it’s not you and it’s not damage some other third party that’s doing that what what are they doing? What can they do to fail I? It’s like a an Avatar. Now, living vicariously through third party but I but I can see how it’d be super valuable getting somebody unstuck. You have somebody that comes to you. They’re stuck. This is a way to get them unstuck. The other side effect that happens is at some point you’re going to start laughing because the IDs get a little bit silly Dick. They’re still true they sound silly and so you’re you’re laughing about all these things that you are. You have to do to fail the the light that shines on what you can do get so much brighter I. IT’S A. Process that I’ve used a number of times. Now over the last couple of years, I find it to be helpful in some fashion every single time on top of that, you’re probably looking at the possibility. If you’re weld network that you could connect this person somebody else hotel in your network, it’s just making sure I. Think the challenge had there’s if this person is not displaying to you the best practices that are known for networking, you may be reluctant to do that. What that means is if it makes sense for you and you think it would be. A warm introduction to send this person to the next one on the list. So to speak, then do that and maybe even help them through that by educating them or providing suggestions on what they should talk about riotous third party another thing and I think of someone in particular that I talked to a while ago that they had that experience where this other person helps them get to the next step and the interview didn’t go well and so that other person didn’t want to recommend my acquaintance in the future the conversation. I WanNa have with that other. person is don’t say no, it may not have gone the way you you had hoped there is still room for a discussion of value there, and if not to help your friend to get employed by that company at least have a conversation about what the company is looking for, and that allows all parties to come away from it being in a little bit better situation rather than just letting it sit at oh, it didn’t go well. So I I like the idea of coming back and not necessarily doing a retrospective. What can we learn from this I? Think? That’s an important conversation to have. If you’RE GONNA go to the effort of recommending somebody for a job. Shouldn’t you then also perhaps take the next step and help them prep for the interview if your your corporate policy allows that then by all means? If they are as good as they say they are in you know them why not? Right? Why not offer to hey, do you need prepping for that interview? Yeah. Now they say no, and then they fail and they tank. Well, it’s another thing if you’re going to be on the committee, exactly one of the difficulties of of knowing someone in hr or the hiring manager in the first place a who if they cannot recuse themselves.

00:20:13 – 00:25:02

It could make a little awkward so that that’s a different conversation. The idea of making the introductions helping the person prepare following up with them. These are all ways that you can then help other people. which pays off in your own search and we do have. I do have a resource actually on my own website that’s a networking checklist. So it’s something that’s easy to transmit to other people so that show yeah. I’ll put that in the show notes. So if you’re interested in endowing copy of networking checklist. I’ll put that in the show notes as well as the. Request that you can get for the Anatomy of networking conversation and the discussion Scott that you and I have had until now is been what can we do to coach people in in a positive way? That’s helpful. I think it’s also valuable to determine at least call out what may not be helpful for for you to do so they can avoid. Yes. So that you can avoid doing these things and potentially pointing this person in a position that’s worse than when they came came to you excellent in the first one, I can think of is is asking somebody for a resume that you intend to do nothing with. Now. You’re not. You’re doing it intentionally are doing it to end the conversation because you don’t want to have it or it’s uncomfortable or you think this I just don’t know what to do here. I agree. and. That goes beyond the interviewing and networking and all and one thing I learned years ago as I got started in the HR and learning and development space never ask a question that you’re not prepared to do something with the answer. So by the same token, if you’re going to ask for a resume and you’re not going to do something with it, that is a big no, don’t do that. Ask for it do something with it or don’t ask for it. Yeah. I if they’re looking for a job and they come to you and you ask for a resume, what they’re thinking in their mind is you have a job for them or at least you’re going to pass it to the person who does and that you’re gonNA put your thumb on the scale or perhaps offer of recommendation or endorsement So just what they’re thinking, that’s what their mindset is. So when you’re taking that resume without that, then you need to be clear why you’re doing it and with that said, if you just say, well, send me your resume is there harm in in? Forwarding that to your hr department, this is something that I’ve run into with a number of people what what do I do with it since the jar it doesn’t need to be soliciting a specific job or soliciting an interview for a specific job. It doesn’t have to be anything other than, Hey, I know somebody who would be interested in work for the company here’s the resume. So at least you’re actually doing something with that resume you never know what may where that may lead I if you’re going to take that step to send it to hr please follow up with the person you took the resume from sure. Let them know you did that end. And with the next step might be because he here’s what happens. They’re still sitting there waiting for a phone call to get an interview. Okay. So if you’re just handing off the HR wiping your hands of it, not that that’s bad. No, I think there was that that’s the least you could do. That’s okay if there isn’t any anything else for you to other than to give that then you go ahead forward to take charge and then you tell your friend I forwarded to HR I don’t know if they’ll do anything because don’t know what positions they’re actually going to be posting know that someone received it, and if you happen to hear back from them, you can use my name doing something with it is more important. The other thing is telling them to look online at the jobs available unless you really have a job for them often I hear people that go and they meet with somebody at the. Company Oh, just go to the online portal and look at the jobs I having been in that situation in my career. I find that to be rather off putting I. Lose his certain amount of respect for the person says just go to my my website and look for the open jobs because that means they either don’t know why I’m talking to them. They don’t care enough to look in advance if this is an off the cuff conversation, they weren’t planning on talking to me any of that. That’s great. If someone comes to you and says, Hey, i. be interested in doing an informational interview because of where. You work at least take a few minutes to look at your own job postings just out of respect for the person who’s WHO’s coming to you look at is an opportunity to pay it forward.

00:25:02 – 00:30:02

Honestly. So this person comes to you and you say go look at the jobs online and then that’s it. Really if you’re GONNA do that why here’s what they’re thinking they’re thinking oh well, we’ll go there and this person’s going to advocate for me. They’re gonNA put me for a recommendation they have a job for me. Okay. So if they’re encouraging me to go to the website and look at the jobs They have one for me or they’re gonNA advocate for me. Here we go back to setting adequate expectations ultimately by coaching or supporting other people. What you’re trying to do is help them and by not doing things, you are not helping them we really want to encourage people don’t ignore the request says they come in if you cannot help someone tell them you’re not in a position to help as much as you might like to, at least they get resolution to their outright right but avoiding them or not responding to them is just plain rude and no response is still respond. So I would say avoid that. The upfront be gentle with them. If you cannot help, we recommend we’re both open network irs we we will network with just about anybody because we understand the value of networking I have no idea if this total stranger comes and asks me to network what the mutual benefit may be I may want to ask some questions. The idea is if you cannot be honest about it, it’s okay say yes. Whenever you can I know that there’s people listening To this podcast that are so busy and they get so many requests every day that they they just can’t possibly spend time with everybody. I. Get that and the philosophy that I’ve heard that I really like is due for one. What you wish you could do for many. So even though you’re not meeting everybody pick one person maybe a week that you feel like, okay this is my one person and not that you’re being charitable, you’re being realistic. And, you’re doing for them what you wish you could do for everybody something else that goes hand in hand with that is if you are getting the same request, say for instance, you work in HR and you’re always getting the request. Hey, can I. Talk to you for advice about how to interview whatever if those are coming in consistently have some kind of response that you can copy and Paste that you are then providing them resource that can help them. Maybe you send send them a link to to job seekers radio DOT COM that way you’re not ignoring them. You’re not being rude. You are saying I’m sorry. I’m not in a position to help you right now. This is where I would suggest you turn for that kind of help and that way they’re still getting an honest. Response from you. That is at some in some fashion helpful to them and I’m not saying that job seekers radio DOT COM is the answer to all of it, send them to someone or some organization that can help them. And I’ve also seen people do posts unlike lengthened what have you how to get hired at my company? So there’s a company that you work for like aws I shall somebody did that this is how you get hired at aws. Here’s the leadership principles and they just laid it all out right so that if you WANNA get a job with our company, here’s everything you need to get that done. So I think that was intentional in that it allowed him to hold everybody at arm’s length and he can just point them to the Arctic. That’s a brilliant idea. So there’s other ways to get around that. So all right while we WANNA thank you all for joining us today. Check out the link in the show notes for itunes. Subscribe. You’ll get future episodes. You’ll be able to keep up with what’s going on and most importantly, you can provide a rate and review we want to hear from you whether you felt this was helpful or give us the review and how it helped you. We love to hear from that about that. We also want to hear from you with your questions. We love trying to provide some answers to questions remembering that we’re not just giving advice we’re really trying to help. You discover what’s going to work for you send US those notes at I tunes, you can get the show notes in resources on whatever podcast player you have on your mobile device or should be a link down there. If you prefer to go to the website, you can do that as well. It’s job seekers radio DOT COM forward slash zero eight two and that’s typically for folks that are driving you know sometimes you you can’t just go to your phone and Click the link. So that’s where he had find all the resources we talked about, and the show notes with more details while I’m Andrew and I’m Scott and in the words of Andrew Iskender and I’m paraphrasing.

00:30:03 – 00:30:15

Kindness, is not doing something for someone else because they can’t. Kindness is doing something for someone because you can. Thanks everybody. Thanks fighting.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Is your job search not going the way you want? Feeling like your skills aren’t up to snuff? Scott and Andrew discuss ways to mitigate your self-doubt.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Remember this: You have value! and.. Everyone has doubts!
• Identify and manage your self-doubt.
• How to think about job postings when you don’t fit because you are either underqualified or over-qualified?
• Build resilience by taking productive breaks in your search.
• The danger of absolutism with your mindset and approach.
• Redefine your perspectives to see what’s positive about it.
• The Never Ending Job Search, how to think about whether will it ever end.
• Doing things for others can become a useful diversion.
• Nobody is hiring or Hiring Freeze doubts.
• Role of networking in reducing your doubt feelings.

Resources (including affiliate links)

Why You Can’t Get an Interview – Explained Using Job-Search Science Data

Andrew’s LinkedIn Profile – Free Coaching at 3:00 PM Pacific every Friday

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:01 – 00:05:02

Welcome to job. Seekers Radio I’m Andrew. This production is meant to provide you. Meaningful support is a listener to find a great career faster whether you’re working or not. Today’s episode is brought to you by the anatomy of a networking conversation e book. It’s a free resource. You can download at job. Seekers radio DOT COM in today’s show. We’re talking about overcoming self doubt in your job search what I’ve found in recent times, is it? There’s a lot of doubt in the marketplace. You have value. That’s what I’m going to start with. You have value. It’s just finding the place where you can use your that can use your value. Yes, and who will appreciate your value absolutely, so we’re going to talk today about some top doubts and some solutions some things that you can do to resolve some of those doubts or mitigate them or worthy. Get your right, and that’s that’s where I wanted to start. Love the idea you have value find the place that acknowledges that appreciates at the same time. Understand that everyone has self downed everyone. Again if you have no fear, no doubt then the you may be disordered. The idea of self doubt is so universal that overcoming. Self doubt really is the key. It is not eliminating you won’t. Recognizing learning to manage, it is a far greater more important skill, then trying to eliminate it because it’s not going to happen. It may be evidence of empathy and compassion. Actually that you’re downing doing something because it might impact somebody else that’s great could be. Necessarily if we’re talking your language right now and your job seeker listening to this session, or perhaps your energy job in your just unsure your next move, you might be dealing with things like you know. Do I meet these requirements of this role. Will the interviewers like me right will ever find a good job as good or bad as the last one I’ve had in, and can there be anything better. Maybe it’s I’m current with ’em. Current with the job market are my sills valued right? You’re questioning things then you’re in the right place I would agree. You’re in the right place. So the first one that we really think about here’s job requirements and many of the people that I coach will look online postings right. They’ll look at. Do An inventory as great analytical do. Because I work with a lot of analytical engineers that sorta chicken they they liked to deconstruct the job description and say do I fit? Do I not fit? AM? I? Interested? Am I not. Doubt right this. Look at that and say well. You Know I. Don’t mean one hundred percent of the requirements so I’m not gonNA apply for that I’ll tell you from an HR perspective job. Descriptions are wish in most cases now it’s true that some companies will create the job description based on the person doing the job, so it’s just listing out the things that this person is currently doing, and there’s a reason for that and I’m not knocking that when they are then looking for the replacement, they will look at all of the things that that person. And then they want the next step up. However wonderful that person may have been, they still want the next one to be even greater, and so they’re looking at this and and making everything sound Rosie remember that a job description is the wishlist with their posting it online. You were the one that came up with the study Do you remember where that there was a study done? Interestingly enough by a company that would make applications on behalf of candidates right so the? They would just do that automatically for them I don’t know if there was some back end system that did that or a bottle, or if it was actually people just typing these. These things in for you copy paste because all that is really to put your stuff in down in an ats applicant tracking system is data entry, so you’re highly qualified. If you’ve done at least what fifty applications for data entry job, right? The idea was the tract everything when they applied and when they got responses and they they actually mapped out that people who meet somewhere between fifty I think it was fifty eight to ninety percent requirements that that range is what got interviews and people below fifty percent, or somewhere in that area were just as likely not to get an interview somebody who is ninety to ninety five per one hundred percent. And you think about that. If if this is a wishlist, somebody has all those skills they may be over qualified for the position, and so that may not get the attention I think it’s important to remember that your skill set is unique to you. It does have value and finding the organization that values it will take some time effort.

00:05:02 – 00:10:00

It’s critically important to your happiness, and there’s if you’re of the opinion that it doesn’t matter if I’m happy as long as they’re happy. I will be. You, really need to be careful walking down that road. I’ve also heard that doubt that is in somebody’s mind. I’m over qualified for that role, and that’s kind of I. Think it different kind of out in that. If I apply for this thing, they’re not going to ask me in. Because I’m overqualified. That’s more of A. I. Don’t know if that’s EGO or Well, there’s there. You know it’s still the. Yeah there’s fear involved in probably because those of us who have been in that situation where we applied for job that was lower than the one we left. Yes, we’re over qualified for that job, but. The Way I actually landed lower position job was. By explaining why I was applying for it in the first place. That afforded me. I was in a time in my life when I didn’t want the responsibility of managing a large team, and for good reason, all I needed was to have the conversation with them as to why it’s a reasonable doubt that you would get as many interviews by being terribly overqualified, but that doesn’t mean you won’t get an interview. Networking going to help strengthen the ties to that. If you know somebody on the inside, who can let the the recruiter or hiring manager now? Hey, I know somebody who has overqualified this for this position, but it’s actually what he’s looking for. Networking is going to definitely benefit, and if you’re at one end of the spectrum, Hey, I, don’t have the skill to match that role so I’m not going to apply, but then the other end of that spectrum is I’m overqualified. GonNa apply anyway just so I can have an application, and then in both of those cases. You don’t get an interview right so you may be a perfect fit for one of those roles. That’s kind of in the middle. And you don’t get the interview or you don’t get any response. You get nothing ghosted. Call whatever you want our. Then it just kind of fans, the flames of doubt that you have the skills necessary to be successful in the marketplace now in pursuing things like education or certification or Gosh. I need to retool because you presume that because somebody has not answered your request on an Ats that you are somehow doubting your skills right and I, think that’s very dangerous and very expensive and very expensive yet normal dangerous expensive. I I completely agree with you. I. Think about those who? Disliked the free phrase. Give up because most people looking for work. Don’t give up I know I. said this in prior podcasts at times. It’s good to take a break. Define how much time you’re just not going to to look for while take a rest because you’re more prepared then after that rest to put the energy back into it, but it also gives you an opportunity to start thinking differently sort of in the mind of resilience. If you keep thinking the same thoughts and you keep getting the same results. That’s going to start feeding itself if you take that break and allow yourself to let go of the doubt. Two. But to just accept it for what it is, and then to think about what could happen, that would be good. Allow yourself to think on that for a while. You’re probably going to get back into that job. Search with a renewed sense of energy and drive and something just popped into my mind is we’re producing this right now? Is that Hey, my mind even wanders when people are talking. Start thinking about different things I hear a dog bark in the Vafa. It’s not in. It doesn’t doesn’t have anything to do with. You Scott has everything to do with this this this mind of mine that just kind of can wander. Everybody and something I’ve seen you. Do you probably down you? Write your ideas down. Yeah, I have to. Because, my my head is a scary place. And and my memories good, but it’s not perfect, yeah. I like about doing that if I’m taking notes of the idea that popped into my head, I can then. Pay More attention to the person who’s speaking and I let people know. Hey I’m going to be taking notes while we’re talking doubt doubt. I doubt I’m going to get an interview now. This often comes from people that we interact with it. Breakfast club that have been looking for a long time, right? They feel like they’re doing all the right things and many times they are and many times they are, but they’re just not getting an interview, and so they get to a point in their search where they feel like.

00:10:00 – 00:15:07

I’m never gonNA find anything. From that point of absolute anytime used never or always or any of these admirably right, it’s all absolute, and there is no absolute. Well I guess there are some. Like death and taxes and stuff like that, but no taxes are still in choice. You can go to jail. Lose your. Life. But. It’s still there. It’s still there, but I’m thinking about okay I doubt I’m ever going to get an interview, because my my never ending job search, and so I feel that there’s a point at which there some insecurity that enters the equation because of their doubt I’ve been there I know people who have been unemployed longer than I was. But I was unemployed for three years at one point during the recession, and that was a tough tough time. It messes with your head. Talk about self doubt and wondering if I’m even higher, -able absolutely goes through went through my mind, constantly two things that I did I talked to the people cared about me. Who are actually supporting the at the time because I was one of those where I had no money laughed, my family was helping me. There was also the idea of never give up. You just don’t give up. Keep moving forward and Dick warn guy here. In Portland, that I met at the time who was giving me a lives. We were having a networking coffee together, and he was the one that gave me the definition of progress of movement towards a worthy goal. And pointing out the fact that it doesn’t matter if it’s. Three miles three yards three millimeters. It is still progress towards the worthy goal. Don’t give up. And I finally got a job, and it was exactly the job I was looking for, and did it last forever. No nothing does, but that’s the other part of that lesson. Is this period that you’re in? How ever doubtful you may be about? Your prospects is the situation you’re in right. Now will change if you haven’t read Eckert Talas the power of now read it. It is only the situation you’re in. It does not define who you are, so it does not define. Your value does not define your ability to be hired. It is simply the situation you find yourself in now. Don’t give up. That is great. I would also recommend considering how you can use that as fuel because a lot of times you get into that situation. You don’t think there’s an end and there is a learning, but use your situation as fuel to do things that you maybe wouldn’t consider doing before like. I think that’s probably one of the things that drew you to breakfast, Club. Not that you’re looking at different job, search groups and untrue, you were I was going to as many as I can go. Job Is at here. You’re in a situation where you know. If you don’t continue doing something than you. You get what you get as my wife says you don’t throw a fit for. You, don’t you? Don’t put something in you. Don’t get anything out. That’s a great memory. I think about our frankly on who actually was the one that put me in touch with you to get involved with breakfast club. And it gave me an opportunity to get back into leading something because I had come out of the leadership role, it got me back into taking the steps of working with people and helping them and leading them through whatever processes. It totally changed my perspective, doing something for other people became. The reason for me to get up at that morning. It was your turns. Able Yeah. Oxygen, so that somebody to take away from this, even though you may have anxiety in doubt and fear, and an uncertain t that doing something for someone else will yield positive results for you I know we were going to mention. Sit Not being able to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Doing something for other people can be the light in the tunnel. You’re not looking at the end of the tunnel yet. You haven’t turned that corner, but it turns out the light. It can make a huge difference by just getting involved in something that is not. Job Related. It’s just getting up and doing something for other people. Yeah, the category, the never ending job search sometimes that doubt. that things just won’t get better I think some of us that have suffered a reduction in force. Understand that right, we understand the doubt that comes with that. I also know that you can retrain your mind to say that every time I’ve had that situation I’ve gotten something better and for me.

00:15:07 – 00:20:03

That’s true now better means different things in each one of those situations sure and it may, it may be something you want it. That’s better. It may be something you haven’t considered. That is better, but it’s better than you expected. I think that’s a perfect and one of the ways you overcome. Doubt is looking for that. You look for what was better out of that situation while I’m no longer at this company. I don’t have to deal with that a hole in in. In Finance or or whatever you know. Or the toxic right whatever that is, it’s like if you start looking seeking out these positive things in a bad situation. That’s when you Kinda. Doubt and you’re able to do things that you didn’t think were possible now. We also made out that anyone is hiring today. I hear this a lot that you know. We have the pandemic and all the unrest, and all these people laying off and is done employment in forever right when you start hearing the headlines you start thinking. Wow, is anyone hiring of the answer is yes. Everybody’s I always assume right. My mindset mindset is everybody’s hiring, so if I think that that I know there’s opportunity especially at companies I’d. I’d love to work for so much of what we talk about. Really is nothing more than a mind game. It’s dealing with what’s going on between your own ears. So if that’s what gets, you started the idea of everybody’s hiring. Do it tell yourself everybody’s hiring. The point is most of the time. It’s true even if they don’t have an open position that they’ve posted on indeed, there are many companies out there that can hire you if you get in front of them. The challenge is getting in front of them. But. It doesn’t mean that they’re not hiring and that’s always been. The challenge has got is getting in front of the right people the right company at the right time. Is always been the challenge. And if you are getting in front of the right people at the right company, and it’s the wrong time, the right time is coming. Don’t burn the bridge. Do stay in touch all the things that we’ve been telling you in other podcasts. Build that relationship because when that time comes up, they will think of you and if they don’t then. If you’re regularly keeping in touch with them, you will remind them what it does. Scott is an actually put you in a position of strength, because now I showed up early to an opportunity that not maybe not exist right now. in the reason that’s important is because the relationship has preceded the opportunities, and now you have things in the right order of operations. Meaning I’m not reaching out to somebody after something’s posted, and now I’m reacting, and what kind of reputation of I developed, and now it got the order of operations all wrong and the likelihood of me getting that opportunity has diminished I. think that’s absolutely right building the relationship. I is always going to help you. The other thing I hear. Is I doubt I doubt such and such company is hiring because they have a hiring freeze on, and that may be true. I’ve I’ve talked to people just within the HR world that there has been a moratorium on hiring that does not mean they’re not looking for you. It means that they may not be allowed to hire you in the way that they would normally want to or the using the their standard processes. I will say that even in a hiring freeze some organizations when there is when they haven’t need that, you can fill can get around that rule. Don’t not do your search because the company has a freeze, find someone inside that you can talk to about what the situation is now and whether or not you can do informational interview. Yes, just to find out what’s going on inside I I’m reminded of rich Lamotte who who wanted to work at Nike and when he wanted to work at ninety. Guess what they’re hiring hiring freeze, but as soon as a hiring freeze was lifted. When did he have? He had the reputation the other. He had the connections he’d have. We’ve mentioned him on a prior podcast so if you haven’t heard his name, it’s because you haven’t listened to the PODCASTS. What struck me about his story so profoundly? That when he was interviewing for the job, he got I believe it was for the one that he he landed. They thought he was already working. Because He. He spent so much time there on the campus. He was there all the time or often enough that they thought he was already employed. So if you’re looking at a company, especially a large company that’s well Silo D- that can happen to you as well, but don’t not reach out to them because you’ve heard.

00:20:03 – 00:25:03

They have a hiring freeze. Bad Economic Times are still good times to get hired and that’s exactly. Exactly, the time you want to reach out to somebody, because then you’re not, you don’t have a veiled request right right? You don’t have that elephant in the corner called job It’s more organic conversation and actually works better for you sure, and if you’re opposed or at least resistant or hesitant to network, this should be good news for you because you don’t have to talk about the job in the corner I. I also think about those who are employed and are doubting their ability to get into the better role or the better company, or whatever that is now working going to help you there, too, because if you’re in a role where there are others at other companies in your same type of role and their networking organizations that already exist for that whether it’s sales research, they’re all out. Yeah HR there if there is A. A National Association get to that Association and start networking with your peers in other companies because you can talk about all the things that your current company is doing without giving any indication that you’re looking to get away, you can have those conversations where it is not the threat and people will see you in that nonthreatening way the idea when you ask someone if they know of any jobs. We all WANNA help. Instead. If you’re going with the idea of just, you’re working on something and you’re looking for information advice. It takes the pressure off the person that you’re talking to. We’re in a position to get promoted than hiring freeze comes in then maybe some of these external forces with the pandemic. Come in, and you stop all of your activity that position you for that promotion thinking it’s never going to happen right I. Doubt This will ever happen for me because of all these different things, so you’re not insulated whether you’re working or not. Just because you have job doesn’t mean you’re not going to be considered for a promotion in fact I. I can encourage I can encourage even more that just about every organization is not going to be the same once. This thing has processed good. They’re going to have to reorganize. They’re going to have to have new people hired. Why because they haven’t been hiring people that worked in go away. It might still be there and it might just be delivered or donning the white done in a different way to think there aren’t opportunities in your company means that you’re oblivious to reality one of the points I absolutely agree with you if you’re considering working for a company that is currently badly impacted by the pandemic or any of these. These other reasons and that they’ve had to furlough people when they come back their new self, they’re going to need people probably with new skills as well so if you are that person with a different skill set than the people that they had to let go. That may put you at the head of the line. Don’t ignore that possibility as well the more time you spend on the inside, talking to people about what’s going on in their organizations, the better your going to be prepared for presenting yourself as that person that they need. The process is set up properly with the relationship I and I will give you the same advice, folks. Folks that I’m giving to most of the leaders that I’m interacting right now whenever you’re in a pandemic or a crisis or things are uncertain, you need more communication, not less communication and in a job search or in a process where you’re trying to establish relationship during this time where we’re all remote, that means I need to communicate more through different methods that I may not comfortable with right to get what I want, do more communication and be alert and cautious. When you work from absolutes. We mentioned that so anything like never always these absolutes are going to trip you up and put you in a this all or none mentality. Just is not helpful in getting you to the next level in your career as those self-doubt start to to get the better of you, there are things you can do. We’ve talked about especially getting out of your own head. I’d say that’s probably your first step. So when you hear those absolute start to come in, that should be a cautionary flag for you. I need to get out of my head from it. Let that be your tool. The moment you sale I’m never going to okay time out. There should be like a referee inside your mind. That gray’s of whistle says Yo timeout I know I have to do that. Occasionally self-doubt, it’s normal. Overcoming self doubt is not the same as eliminating self-doubt, and it’s learning how to deal with it. Not Try to ignore it. And one of the resources you might consider actually that I hadn’t thought of is I.

00:25:03 – 00:27:07

do a live broadcast every Friday on a Lincoln. So, it’s a Lincoln. Life Three PM Pacific Time Friday and I make it available to anybody, and so if that’s you, please go ahead. visit linked in profile will be listed in the show notes, or you can reach out to us through the website. Absolutely you need additional support. During these difficult times both Scott have made a commitment that we would make ourselves available. Let us now. To Talk to you if you have if you need some kind of direction, and if you need additional support, of course, we do have coaching programs that we could offer right, so go to job. Seekers radio DOT, com forward slash zero eight one download the e book that we did the Anatomy of networking conversation. Listen to that. Take the take notes on what you can do when you’re on the in the website. Send us a message and let us know how we can help. Help you. Either one of us will be will be happy to help will thank you for joining us for this episode of Job Seekers Radio the other thing you’ll see in the show notes is a link to items, and in that link you, you get the chance to do a couple of things I. If you want to subscribe on I tunes, and that happens to be your platform great, go ahead and do that. You’ll not only get subscribe, but you’ll get future episodes. The other thing that allows you to do provide us a rate and review, which is really helpful in getting the message out about this job. Seekers Radio that we’ve put together I think if you’ve gotten value of this, my guess is somebody else could too so rate review. Maybe even share with a friend or family member a colleague. Whatever’s whoever’s in your circle that you can think of that might benefit from this session or any of the other episodes we done. We would really appreciate that. Yes, we will well I’m Andrew and I’m Scott, and in the words of William Shakespeare modest out is called the beacon of the wise from. Everybody by.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Getting results from your networking starts with understanding what to expect from the activity. Managing your expectations can lead to better results, interviews, and many other positive next steps.

Join Scott and Andrew as they discuss the ins and outs of expectations and how things might go wrong.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Establishing expectations based on your situation and audience.
• What is the difference between delighted and disappointed.
• The role of mindset, trust and perception.
• What is reasonable to expect
• Identifying appropriate outcomes by thinking ahead
• Questions to ask in order to determine if you are being realistic
• Accepting feedback and making adjustments
• What to do when your expectations aren’t mirrored

Resources (including affiliate links)

What Color is Your Parachute 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:01 – 00:05:10

welcome job seekers radio. I’m Andrew and I’m Scott. This production is meant to provide you meaningful support to find great careers faster. The weather you’re working or not. Today’s episode is brought to you by the Anatomy of networking conversation. e-book it’s a free resource to you you can download unload data job seekers radio DOT COM so in today’s show. We want to talk about expectations in job. Search the preface to this. It’s part of a customer service training that I did many years ago and I still use this actually is the idea that the definition between delighting someone or disappointing them is simply defined as the gap between what is expected and what is delivered. We think a lot about those times in our job ob search when that we are disappointed in something whether it’s disappointed in our cells for not performing in a certain way whether it’s disappointed in the person who interviewed viewed us for not asking the kinds of questions that we were expecting not necessarily reacting to our responses. The way we were expecting the the problem is not in the behaviors whether our own or the other person’s it really is about what it was our expectation going in and the second question that is were those expectations realistic. So that’s what we want to talk about in today’s conversation. It’s really US wrestling with this. This idea of expectation frustration. Disappointment the different emotions that you’re gonNA feel either in work or in your career career or in a job search. There’s always hate to say it but there’s always gonna be somebody who doesn’t live up to your expectations. I found this when I first got into real estate and I had a list of all these people that I would call my good friends that said Oh well. I’m sorry. We can’t transact real estate with you. My Funchal is a real tour or my cousin or my fifth wife from a previous marriage or something. You know whatever that lives in this thing but you know when it’s like hang on a second here. I had this expectation because we have trust. You’re gonNA help me or allow me to help you. And you think about that in the the employment situation how many of us have gotten into working at a job where we thought we were coming into one kind of environment and it turned out it was very different. It’s it’s important to recognize if someone has told me that we behave in a certain way here and in fact we don’t that’s not on me what I do with the new. The information is on me and I can set some expectations based on reality rather than what. I was hoping for being told that those are the things I should could be hoping for. There’s there’s responsibility on the other side of that. What I do with the information is ultimately completely within my control? So that’s what we want to promote here is to create some reasonable expectations and not have them set so high that people are naturally going to come in underneath that. They’re going to let let us down in some fashion. If someone tells me that we have a culture at this organization that is employee center. Can It’s all about the employee experience. I think that’s going to he great but knowing human nature my expectation is going to be a lot lower not so much to tell them how they are having problems with living their expectations. -tations as much as it is. Where do I really fit because that is going to set me up for success? Today’s conversation really is going to be narrowed focused on networking working what we mean by expectations as relates to networking with people. which is something? We really advocate as an effective search method and all of the research supports. What’s that at least the ones that I’ve read and really we’re talking here about? What is the expectation and really wanting to get from my networking and is that accurate? And there’s many different components in networking that we can talk about. The first one is the outcome. What is the appropriate outcome that we can expect from networking if we think about the Outcome that also is going to alleviate some of the fear that we have going into networking conversations whether that’s an interview and Informational interview or just a basic doc. Never came conversation if we can look at. What are the outcomes we want? We have something to focus on. We’re going to be less afraid of having the conversation if we know what we want out of. And you might have more than one expectation that actually offers you an opportunity to get some of your expectations met which will lower your fear and your apprehension regression and actually have walking away from networking a little more positive on what it means. We often come into these networking conversations with an expectation that the other people involved are also as open to it as we are and sometimes that doesn’t happen. What do we do with that first of all the question that I ask I is is where my expectations appropriate were the outcomes that I had hoped for realistic in that situation? It may be a situation that I wouldn’t know ahead of time.

00:05:10 – 00:10:05

Fine I can learn from it. Okay so I went to this networking group and I’m just using this. As an example it was an association of people that do the kind of work that I do I went to the networking opportunities. Pretended that they offered and I did not get out of it what I was hoping for. Why not what was it that was a barrier was coming in with unreal- unrealistic expectations? Order did I maybe make a misstep as I started whatever that is. I’m not going to judge it. I’m just going to try to figure it out. Do The post mortem if you will. Because that’s what you control troll. You don’t control of that group or the other people or their reality or even their perception of reality what I control is me and if I can look inward hurt and say okay. I’m going to take responsibility. That may be part of the reason. I didn’t get my expectations. Met is because it was some way I was looking at it case in point I just had a a inexperience recently. Talking with a fairly high level professional she is Vp within her organization. And I was helping to build a relationship relationship with her Not Personal all professional but the idea was I want to a network further into her part of her organization and so I was having this conversation and she had promised to get back to me a week later and she didn’t. It was a week after that that she finally did and she gave me some critical feedback that did not feel feel-good she first of all expressed how highly she thought of me in the ways that we had worked together in the past and wanted to maintain that relationship so as she setting setting this up. I’m realizing there’s something negative coming and eventually. She told me that I basically over shared some information with her that she didn’t think was appropriate for that conversation and she wanted me to know not because she thought it was a bad person it quite the contrary she wanted me to know what had put her off so I had to you set aside the embarrassment that came from Matt and set aside myself judgment enough to recognize that she meant. Well she actually cared enough off to give me that feedback. Even though it did not feel good. The other thing that happened was afterwards after. I’m processing doing that. Post mortem were my expectations. -tations realistic did I do the right thing. And when I came up with was no I didn’t do the right thing with her but that wasn’t because of her. That was just because I misjudged the information she was looking for. I didn’t validate it before I gave it to her. I have now had a learning experience from this I. I won’t be as free to talk with her because not going to make the same assumptions about her. That I did before and I made this assumptions based on a mutual friend. Someone who had sent me up for the conversation in the first place and I based the expectation on what kind of conversation I would have had with my friend not with the networking contact. Here’s an opportunity ready for us to think ahead about. What is the appropriate expectation for this specific opportunity and being an open person as I am? I share freely really. How do I dial that back to stay within the confines of their expectations and that would have led me some questions? About how candidate can I be. How great is it though to have that learning experience have somebody actually share it with you? Many people would just look at that. and not say any writing. And you Rollin doing the same thing and you what you’re wondering why. Hey why. It’s a really the thing that we’re talking about here is. Are you okay with that. Are you okay with not having your expectations is met. Because some people can’t cope with that kind of feedback or the silence. One of those who are going to drive them absolutely crazy. True true it takes practice practice. Don’t get me wrong. It did not feel good. My initial reaction was one of being put off but I had to accept the fact once once I realized no. She’s really trying to give me feedback because it will help me. I had to set aside those feelings of remorse or embarrassment or whatever in order to get the lesson out of it. That is a skill that is practiced. I don’t know anyone who does that. Naturally I was coaching client recently. Where they went into a an interaction she had a set of beliefs about what networking should be and they weren’t mirrored by the person she was meeting with because I had set her up for such success with these best practices that she was disappointed? That this other person didn’t get it and that’s where you know. Make sure that you understand what your the definition of networking might be is different than what the other person might think that it is and if you have enough time to ask these kinds of questions you can actually ask the other. A person with their expectations are especially. If you’re the one requesting never can conversation with someone and so you meet and they say so. What do you want out of this conversation section? It is totally okay to turn that question back around after you answer of course then you ask them.

00:10:05 – 00:15:03

What are you looking to get out of this conversation? This also sets you up for that mutual benefit situation that we were talking about in a prior. podcast if you have that mindset of mutual benefit by asking them what do you want out of this networking conversation conversation. You’re now going to establish what those differences are so that the expectations are now shared. What we’re learning here is that learning might be one one of the expectations? You should have love it from networking not only learn from that person but to learn about yourself the loop land how to be better at this craft. The other part of that is the other person may have the right intentions but they may not be as skilled as you are at executing them so we also have to be patient in the process for the the other person even if they’re in a position where you’d think that they should know this not everybody does reciprocate is often one of the expectations. That people are looking for that. Hey if if I give you something. I’m expecting something back right. A give and take and sometimes that isn’t mirrored and if your expectation is you’re going to get something out of it and it doesn’t doesn’t happen if I come into our cain conversation with the idea that I am going to give not necessarily I’m going to receive. I’m going to give that’s going to be my effort right here than I am not disappointed if I don’t receive something not. Everyone has the same ability to reciprocate. Dave probably will try what they will do who is mirror to some degree as you’re reading. What is happening in the moment if you’re good at that if you’re not this is something you’ll want to practice in your networking conversations number sessions? If you’re seeing what they’re mirroring you can actually lean into that to gain greater trust and then maybe find that mutual benefit along the way really really the best way for me to get to that reciprocation. Moment is to make sure that I’m talking about us. We are looking at this conversation together. If I’m talking only about me what I expect what I want from you. Or what can I do for you. It changes when we shift the conversation to. What can we do together now? We find out what those mutual expectations are in a different way. It’s important to remember also that this is not zero sum game. meaning that it’s not every conversation is going to go as you planned. Not every person is gonNA reciprocate. Not every person is going to be free to give you information. Part of this process versus of networking is establishing a pool of people. That can actually offer you something and you can reciprocate in so. There’s a symbiotic relationship if you will when we think about what we hope to get out of something. If we don’t get it there is still something that we can learn. I’ve never been in a situation relation where there was nothing to gain from having had the conversation. Sometimes it’s only the idea that I know that this is a path that is not going to bear fruit in in the short term and I might want to put off my next conversation with that person. That doesn’t happen often. That’s the worst case scenario. Never unless they are truly the type of person who is very difficult and I don’t want to get to know them any further Usually it’s okay. This isn’t going to be where I put my time in energy and today but maybe in a couple of months I can circle back and see if there isn’t some fertile ground there somewhere instead offering up my time to network with other people people when you go in with the expectation of giving as opposed to getting. You’re much more likely to then get what you’re expecting. And so this has been a positive experience experience for you and for them and can lead to another conversation brings me full circle back to real estate. I had a group of people that I thought were my good friends of trust and I expected them to do business with me. All that meant for me was they wanted to be friends. Yes they just didn’t want to do business with me. An and yes. That was hard feedback back to get but what that meant for me in my business is I wasn’t going to invest time marketing selling interacting with them as a potential client in order to get business. They actually did me a favor because now you can spend the time and energy to make them into better friends or I can go spend my business time with clients. It’ll actually do the business with right so I would have said and spend the time because the thing is that’s a really important distinction to make my social time is going to be different from my professional time. If I’m investing my social time into building those friendships I never know what kind of professional leads may come from that later. But I’m going to put the effort in where it belongs if instead I keep keep pushing these potential friends to bring business. I’m actually not doing anybody any favors. They’ve already given me the feedback. I needed to address them in away. That’s actually meaningful to them. Free me up to do the other efforts with people who are actually going to bring the business so when we think about the networking conversations. It’s the same anwr. We’re always adding people taking people away.

00:15:03 – 00:19:35

You know maybe not taking away but involving them allowing them to go. That’s fine. It’s all about timing sometimes times. The timing isn’t right or there’s life change. There’s a lot of variables when you’re talking about human beings. Yes just normal just the other day I was talking about well. Actually I think it was this morning. I was talking to some people about the idea of seeing on social media comments by friends that I really spend a lot of time and energy trying to build. Those is relationships had never got anything. We’re talking over a period of years because I tend to be persistent and I just never get the effort back and what what changed in the moment was moving from being disappointed to realizing that I am surrounded albeit by a small circle but surrounded by family and friends who actually really do care who do reciprocate who do make the effort why to your point. I continue to make efforts where they don’t pay off. It’s easier to let those go. Oh and to be in the place where they belong in terms of my relationships and instead as I think about my networking what am I doing. That actually brings me Good feelings what is it. What groups do I go to? What meetings do I attend? What conversations do I have that? Bring me more of those. That’s where where I want to focus my time and energy so instead of worrying about the things that don’t work to your point letting them subtract themselves. I’m going to build up those conversations that actually work and now I feel good about networking. My expectations have been reset. I’ve got a more realistic idea. Yeah of how I can move forward. I feel better about doing so. Suddenly I’m in that virtuous circle that helps me move forward many times. It’s conversations nations leading to more conversations or conversations leading to application resume higher or assess or conversations lead nowhere. There’s there’s always an outcome to every conversation and it just may not be what you think it is. The key is keep having the conversations right keep interacting with people. It will happen now we get to an idea of well. I’m an introvert or I prefer to connect very slowly with people. That’s just is my style totally appreciate that. You’re going to be working at a different pace at no point. Am I going to suggest that you need to do this. At the pace that I do because I can act very quickly with people and I may not be totally extroverted but I am certainly more extroverted than a lot of people. I know in spite of the fact that I still need that downtime time. I’m more comfortable doing that. Don’t judge your pace against mine. Take the pace that makes sense for you and create realistic expectations associated with head. That way. You’re not disappointed either. And if you need to move or feel the need to move at a pace that is faster than you would prefer or to have these conversations conversations. When you’re really not a conversationalist by nature? Maybe you employ the help of somebody else to help facilitate the conversation. You go as a pair to a networking group meeting. Hang or whatever this looks like so that you have support so you don’t have to be the only one having the conversation find ways to make it work for you set. Those outcomes those expectations based on realistic efforts. Thank you for joining us for this episode of Job Seekers Radio Your investment of time and attention is greatly appreciated head on over did I tuned subscribed to get future episodes. While you’re there please. Provide us a rate and review. That really is GonNa push this labor of love for both of us up into the ranks so that more people can see it. We also appreciate when you ask questions whether it’s about this episode or the others are maybe some something you’re dealing with in in your job search. We love answering these questions. We do specific podcasts. Four questions and answers. We’d love to include your questions in that at the moment what we do want you to go to job seekers radio DOT com forward slash zero seven. Two you’ll get the show notes. But also that’s where you’re gonNA find. The anatomy let me of networking conversation e book. And scroll down to the bottom of that same page. Leave a comment or a question there. Every page on our podcast has space for you to provide comments comments and feedback right. We really want to hear from you. Well I’m Andrew and I’m Scott and in the words of Michael Jordan if you accept the expectations of others especially Salihi negative ones then you will never change the outcome also. Thanks everybody bye bye.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Culture is the environment, including common values, vision, and mission. Does every organization have one? Likely, yes.

Does the organization live their values? No, not always.

Scott and Andrew share thoughts about identifying your cultural values and how alignment with company culture is a critical exercise for your career.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Researching corporate values.
• Filtering corporate values against your own values.
• Investigating first hand through networking and interviewing.
• How to manage the varying levels of belief in and living out the corporate culture.
• Developing and documenting values as part of the job search and career management process.
• Maintain openness to possibilities and opportunities for something better.
• Decisions to make a move within or outside.
• Would it be worth it to work towards changing the culture.

Resources (including affiliate links)

037 Networking When You Are Feeling Desperate
068 Balancing Cultural Fit With Urgent Need For Employment 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:01 – 00:05:01

welcome to job seekers radio. I’m Scott and I’m Andrew and this production is meant to be meaningful support for you to find great career careers faster whether you’re working or not that’s right. Today’s episode is brought to you by the anatomy of a networking conversation. It’s a free e book did you can download at Jobseeker’s obscures radio DOT com. It’s a wonderful resource. It’s our philosophy really that we’ve developed a four step process so when you download that document you actually get the companion audio to help walk you through getting your feet wet with networking. If it’s not something that you felt you were really you felt positive about felt felt that it was easy for you. We hope that this will bring it a little bit within your reach Scott. Tell me about today’s show. Today’s show we’re going to be talking about the role of culture in your the job. Search a lot of companies talk about their culture and how they are employee centric in so many ways and I think this is great. The idea that that company executives and leaders are looking for ways to connect with their people and to make them feel better about working there. I think is important and I think it’s critical for for employee engagement. which is something we talk a lot about in the corporate world these days especially in? HR circles as well as within leadership your ship because ultimately they have to keep people engaged right so they create these wonderful cultures. They’re also usually pretty good about promoting what those values might might be. What brought this to mind though? And and as Andrew you and I were talking about this I’ve run into a few conversations recently to that talk about culture her especially from a perspective where when they get there they find out the culture is really just talk. They’re not necessarily living the beliefs or values news that they say they have. They just put that up there to make you feel good about working there while that’s a step in the right direction. They’re seeing as the gap between what they say they value and what they seem to be doing in the workforce so what we want to talk about is how do you recognize that. How do you validate they live the values versus just the talk? And what do you do with the information that you find. Whenever I talked to folks about culture? Their eyes glaze over offer as a job seeker. They’re like culture. What do you mean you’ve never really considered it until you’ve documented and what I found is that if you don’t recognize what culture you you were in and what parts of it you liked and what you WanNa see replicated in your next job? It’s hard for you to even know and that’s the first step or the first challenge challenge that many of my coaching clients have the second step is to believe that they have a choice to pick that culture or not pick that coal right when the job offers on the table even before. I’ve talked to people all the time where they’re saying. Well I can’t really afford to not pursue a company because I need a job. Well I totally appreciate that. I’m not going to challenge that. It is so much better for the applicant to make choices along the way. And if you don’t don’t feel comfortable not choosing to move forward with a company what you can do is choose how you’re going to deal with the situations that you’re going to face especially really if you end up getting hired so it’s important to know what those choices look like. What is it that’s going to make you make a choice and this comes back to culture every company of any any size? We’ll have a vision statement mission statement. They often have a values statement. These are the values that we we believe in as a company whether that’s for the customer or for their employees and obviously we’re looking for that Employment Lens. This is the kind of I’ve worked environment. We create for our employees. The thing I like about that is those companies that do that have a view and I think an accurate one that it’s the employee employee experience that really drives the customer experience because employs that deal with the customers so if the employees are going through a really positive experience the likelihood the customers feel that positive attitude will increase. So what does that look like. You have to go to the website you have to talk to them about what those values are and how they live of them. That’s the culture that means you need to document what you believe. Their culture is the challenge that I’ve seen a lot of people have is. They’ll look at. They’ll look at the website. They’ll say okay. That looks great. They’ll look at their Lincoln. Write Lincoln has a company page where they can say. Here’s what life looks like at Xyz Company and okay. But I never wrote any of these things down and said okay. We’ll which these are even important to me because you may have said Oh. This looks great. I’d love to work there yet. But what does that it really mean for you. Personally and great lends to US too often. We both talked to people looking for work. Who are just putting their resumes out there? They’re making those those connections as quickly as they can.

00:05:01 – 00:10:03

They’re really not paying attention to what is behind the company. That has the job description. Out there You know the job posting take the time time we will challenge you every time. Take the time to look at what that actually means. Not just what the company says. But what does that mean to you would. Would this be important to you if you were there. It may look good but not really apply to you or it may not really align with what is important to you. That’s important to I know as you are then taking that information you’ve highlighted. These are the things that are important to me. You now have an opportunity to talk to someone whether it’s networking or an interview situation about how you fit in with that culture. How you ally with them with that said the next step is to find out? Do they actually live their values news. And that’s GonNa take more than one brief conversation. You have to talk to several people to find out. Is this just the way. They present themselves or do they actually put their air money where their mouth is and live this and expect this within their organization at all levels. Couple things to be cautious of when you’re going through this kind of validation process success is not to assume that if you’ve heard it five times it must be true because often we think okay if I’ve heard it from five different people in an organization of thirty thousand. That’s still not a big enough sample size. Not only that have they said it in exactly the same way if they’re using exactly the same words. Okay this is something. They’re drilled old in but do they live. Do they live it and the second challenge that I see or at least the vulnerability to think about. Is this idea if I’m asking them questions since I have to ask him in a way that I can get the answer I need and are often. Were asking questions directly. You know. See you haven’t interest like I’m just regurgitating. What I saw on the website site? I see you have an interest in diversity. Great what you’re interested in diversity. Yeah what are we talking about. So we’ll see where I I thought you were going to go with. This is how you direct. You are in asking questions because that’s another topic that I just had a conversation with someone. This last week was perhaps there to direct Iraq and I remembered a story when I was interviewing years ago at a hotel for a leadership position and I was interviewing with evs the the second or third step at the process interviewing with the general manager and I went to the direct and I said so I understand that this hotel has a reputation for or being a revolving door for people within my division. What are we doing to counter that? and He came back with. Wow that is actually my responsibility. And he’s he responded in such a way to let me know that I had just put in a Dick insulted him while it was true. I probably could have have massage that a little differently right. I could have asked the question that would have given me the information I needed without making it. Feel like an accusation as you are finding being out the information you need. It’s really important that you interview them and interviewing we talk about behavioral questions which are open ended. Did it isn’t. Are you doing something about this. It is tell me about a time when something happened and what you got out of that. These are are the kinds of questions that as you ask them. You’re going to find out whether or not their culture is actually the type of environment you want to work in but again coming coming back to your original question. Why do you want that kind of environment? You’ve got to be able to answer that question. You have to be clear about and not. Many people have given consideration in hiring hiring process for these components. It’s like what I need is a resume and a cover letter and I need to apply online. I only need three tools right. I don’t need to actually evaluate the culture. I don’t need to network and so there’s a bunch of things that people don’t think they need to do and then they’re disappointed when they get on the job and it’s shitty environment. I totally agree with you. conversation that I was having with this guy this past week we were talking about being disappointed because it has been my experience far more than once of coming into an organization believing that they live the culture they publish and then only to find out later that they are not consistent or they don’t actually actually care they don’t live according to what they say they value and if you consider the difference between disappointment or a big delighted both are true as the gap between what you expect and what is delivered. Then who’s responsibility is it than to to have done the due diligence to discover. What is the culture I am? I going to fit their the experiences that I have had is that I trusted too much in in the beginning that they did do this rather than they aspired to this which is a completely different mindset. It’s a little bit of a nuance as it is so if I know going into that this is what we aspire to.

00:10:03 – 00:15:05

But we don’t always do it. I can actually accept the failures. has they come as opportunities to to grow rather than being offended that they don’t live their values and that’s up that’s in my head that’s going on in me is still your experience. It is and it’s still something you have control of. That doesn’t give them license to continue that behavior true. I still have choices to make. Once I realized how well or how poorly they do to the way I approach. It is different and so that is going to affect the way you have these networking conversations with people if you are validating that everyone is is saying the same thing that they do talk about their values consistently and there appear to be those stories of how they live. Those values remember that they’re going to pick and choose. Who is the best stories to tell that one? You’re more likely to get into that area. That were they really do live their values as you validate this and ask. Those open ended questions that aren’t putting them on the spot. They don’t feel like they’re being accused of anything. But you’re trying to build a big picture with their help is not uncommon. That if if you’re listening to this podcast that you’re probably working somewhere where some of these components exist in. You’re thinking to yourself what do I do now. You can use these same concepts in meaning you have some choices to make. The first thing is to remember you have a choice. The second thing is to remember is to think about. Hey what do I really enjoy about where I’m at right now. Even though it may not be the best is we often don’t consider that there are still virtues here to focus on or we get so bogged down in the negatives that keep keep coming back that we forget to take time to think about what goes well. It’s important that we make an effort to do that. If only to keep ourselves grounded in what we can enjoy for some of our listeners. There may be a situation where you have nothing that you really enjoy their. And it is time for you to leave. We acknowledge that we encourage urge you to get that networking going so that you can get out as soon as you can but most of us are in a situation where even if we’re not totally happy and the job we can find something positive positive that keeps us afloat and that is what builds the resilience that we need to find our next opportunity. If you’re in a situation where you’re maybe you’re offered a job rob and you’re you have questions about the culture. Your first choice will be whether or not you accept that offer. I would never say no. Don’t do it unless you know that that culture is going to be toxic for you and remember also cultures are not necessarily toxic for everyone. SOMEONE IS GONNA come out ahead in that. It may not be the right opportunity for you if this is going to be a gap job you know that we’ve talked about data right other podcasts. Were we’re going to set that aside at this point. That is a choice choice you can make. And if you’re in a position where you have to take the job now because you need a job right now. Remember that you will continue to have choices as you go keep your networking going. Keep Your Eyes Open for all of the opportunities within this organization that you just joined as well as outside because you are responsible for your own experience each opportunity is a chance for you to refine what it is you you enjoy what it is you like. What kind of people you enjoy working with breath so even in a bad situation I guarantee you? There’s something good I like working with people okay. What kind of people do you enjoy working with? So this is me putting my coach hat on because part of this process going from zero to one is probably the hardest meaning. I’m in a place on getting paid. Why should I leave? I now have to get leverage on myself. Just to go from zero to one is a useful exercise to take a look at these cultural components throughout your career. At any point in time you should probably have a document of some kind that describes your next step or your dream job or whatever it is. You’re trying to accomplish in your career in your life and your whatever’s the other thing that I was thinking as you were saying saying who are the people that you do like now you’re also building your list for the kind of culture you WANNA be in. I WanNa work with people that are like this you know I. I’m currently working with ten and different people on my team. But it’s really joe and Sally that I really like working with why. What is it about Jones? Sally that you feel good about working with them. What does that look like? Another companies who who is outside or maybe another departments within the same company. Who is it? That’s going to work with you similar to the two that you do like now you’re creating the list subculture that you want to give an example where Sally Joe and Suzy or whatever interacted with you. Well enjoyed it right so now. I’m looking at not only why but but I’m looking at how. How is that exhibit? And so you might say okay. Well I like working with Sally because she adds something to the conversation. Okay give me an example. Now I can look at that example and then I can reverse engineer a question for that hiring team or in my networking interactions to say. Hey when a situation like this comes up right. So you’re really already have documented what that looks like and is it as exhibited inside the company.

00:15:05 – 00:20:05

I think that’s brilliant. I do think that a lot of cases we are able to take that initial job that we absolutely needed and then parlay that into something. That’s actually better. You have to be patient in doing that. Because very few companies want to hire you into a physician that immediately allow you to transfer into something else unless they’re in a high growth situation where that actually make sense for them. Moving out of an organization isn’t always they only option that you have moving elsewhere within the organization can be a good option and their times when moving out of the organization really is your bat so we come back to that question. What is it that you enjoy doing? What companies are out there that do the same sorts of things and who can you validate eight that these organizations have the culture? You’re looking for. I think it’s always good to assume there’s something better. There’s probably a better job a better manager a better organization of if you don’t assume there’s something better you’re going to stop looking. You’re you’re gonNA stop doing the things that got you to where you are in the first place right. I like that the other thing about that is if you can’t find the one that’s better than maybe a suggestion that you’re in a good spot. So how can I change my mindset. That will be. That will make me more resilient in the negative times that I’m having so that I’m focused more on the positives. We are looking for validation of the kind of Culture Richard that we work well in that resonates for us that things that we really aligned with. How do we get into that more? Whether it’s looking outside the company or at least is looking outside your team or department. These are ways for us to actually make things better for ourselves without feeling like we have to start over. Don’t overlook the value you making this a fertile playground. If you’re the type of person that likes turning cultures around that you love change any love maybe you look at this like a challenge right. This is a great new challenge for me to impact this culture. I know I’m only one person but only really takes one person to change an entire culture. It does you will need to do that a carefully. I love the idea. I have done that sort of work before I enjoy it but you have to be very careful I to understand on a very deep level. How and why they do what they do now? Because there is a reason somebody further up likes what they see before you go in and try and change something find out why the status quo is the status quo. What is the value that the current situation brings to those who are making the decisions? Because if you have that in mind as you’re looking for things is that can improve. You could actually turn that and connect it back to what they value while seeking change that you would like to see that way. You’re getting the buy in from the beginning. If instead you come in and immediately say oh I can change this out of the other. I did that early in my leadership career where I came in in a director position position because they needed my skills. I saw ways that my staff could do things a little differently. That would help them. So I made the changes and they resented it even even though they were having greater success. And it’s because I didn’t take the time to find out what they were doing now and why they were doing now why that was important. In the previous he s moment you know with their their prior boss. Had I done that I would have had a much easier transition of making the changes that I wanted because I understood where they were coming from. That was a really important lesson for me to learn now in the end we were a really tight team. We’ve stayed in touch over the years since that was a lesson. I need to learn. Learn it from me. They don’t don’t make the mistake of going in and changing it right away. If change is your thing if you are you’re change oriented and you like making that kind of difference. No that takes time before you start the process and it’s going to take time to initiate any chain yes. These are all components of probably a change model. You’re familiar with the idea. Is You know I’m looking at it from the perspective of Gosh I’m mad. I’m pissed they sold me something I did want and then I’m just going to go into satisfied every day. You know what I mean I do and and so the the idea here I look at it like a challenge. That’s hey you know. I know they WANNA spouse to these values. I’m going to do whatever I can’t get them there and look look at that just as a personal challenge to do whatever you know process that you feel is appropriate to get there and I like the point that you make. It’s easy for us. Once we realize just how far or how little we can actually effect change. We have the tendency all human beings do to go in and say okay. I’m just GONNA and get my minimum. I’m done with us. You will feel better about your contribution if you set that feeling aside and continue to do the best work you can do due to make the changes you can to have the positive impacts that you can and allow them to make the decisions they wanna make has. What’s out of your control is out of your control? Troll make a change take a step do something as a result of today’s session.

00:20:05 – 00:21:19

Today’s podcast there might have been something you learned. Here is not just good enough that you sit. Sit here and listen to this podcast every something whether it takes something you know so what we want you to do is actually go to the website. JOBSEEKER’S RADIO DOT COM forward slash zero seven seven. One scroll down to the bottom of the page and just leave us a comment. What did you try? What are you GONNA do ask a question or what did you try? And it didn’t work work because that’s going to be a really good learning opportunity. Why didn’t it work to to your best record election or your ability to interpret whatever happened line? It didn’t work. What did you learn from that? What will you do differently next time? Because that’s how we really grow go to job seekers radio DOT COM forward slash zero seven one for show notes. And while you’re there there’s a free resource for you. It’s called the anatomy of the networking conversation. Is A book that we put together for your use and and you can also head over to itunes leave rate in review. It spreads the message we do. This is a labor of love and so please spread the love. Well this is Andrew and I’m Scott and in the words of William early ambition is the path to success. Persistence is the vehicle you arrive in. Thanks everybody bye bye.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

You know you should network. You know many people find jobs and get promoted through networking. So what’s the hold up?

Sometimes knowing how to network is the hard part.  Scott and Andrew share the Top 9 Ways to get your networking Done.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Top 9 Methods to Get your Networking Done
• Best practices for networking to make it easier.

Resources (including affiliate links)

What Color is Your ParachuteNetworking: Insiders’ Strategies for Tapping the Hidden  Market Where Most Jobs Are Found 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:01 – 00:05:07

welcome to job seekers radio. I’m Andrew and I’m Scott. This is a podcast. Meant to provide you meaningful support to find great careers faster. And that’s whether you’re working or not. Today’s episode is brought to you by the anatomy of a networking conversation e book. It’s a free resource that you can download download at Jobseeker’s radio DOT COM. There’s a little link on the homepage where you can do so down at the bottom of the page you can put in your little email address and we’d be happy to send you that a free resource. You can put your big email address in there to today’s episode is the top nine ways. Networking can be done. There are a lot of definitions editions out there. And we’re going to go over the ones that we think are both the most common but also the must effective how we execute this whole networking can take many different forms often often when I talk to job seekers or even professionals that are working they believe networking to be something very specific. They kind of have put it in a box right. And and basically the approach that we generally take is used the things that work don’t limit yourself to only the things that you know about. There’s always an an opportunity to try something new. So what does that look like. We want to talk about some of that today and at the end will actually ty shift gears and talk about. What is it successful conversation? Sation what should you really have outside of just the methods. We’re going to talk about and really we’re going to start here with the nine ways. You can actually have a conversation with with somebody and the first way you can do. That is in a group setting many job seekers. I’ve talked to say they think networking is. I have to go somewhere where I don’t know anybody. And there’s there’s a large group of people and that’s what networking and networking event. Whether that is a group of people that are looking for work it might be an association and King Opportunities some something that has a theme or maybe they have a speaker. Maybe not but it’s where everybody gathers and again the room full of people you don’t know but you have something in common with so that works. We recommend that. If that’s your thing do it do it as much as you can. Because if it is a numbers burst game for you you will pick up something if you go to enough of them you might find these on something like meet up or event right. It might be an association might might be a job seekers group. These group events are really good to meet New People. You don’t know. And that’s the whole point. Is that often some people think networking working in just talking to the people. I already know. And if we only talk to the people we know we’re GONNA get diminishing return absolutely. This is a great way to go to a new environment. Meant to test your limits. Get outside your comfort zone. Meet somebody I hadn’t yet known yet and really what did they say. Strangers are only friends. You haven’t met yet. I personally a enjoy doing these kinds of networking events because that fits my style and I understand. They’re different people. Different styles different things that were even for those four home. The networking events can be a little uncomfortable. It can still be valuable experienced. We do recommend that you try that. It’s going to be the most visible you’re going to have the most post operative there and as you approach them. Don’t go in with an expectation that you’re going to have a home run in this one experience if you keep appear expectations relatively low then. Frees you up to look for things that you wouldn’t necessarily be expecting. It’s sort of counterintuitive to less issue going expecting the more you walk out with the other group event I would take a look at is. It is actually a job fair. I’ve seen these career job fairs. It’s a group group of people. It’s an exceptionally good place to network. Because either the people there have jobs or the people you meet who are looking for work ended up getting a job somewhere that you worry. So there’s a lot of benefit to do to looking at job fairs as a networking group of absolute that way rather than just a place to find a job for well and then there’s also the those who are looking for a job at the job fair when you strike up the conversation. They may know of something that is more up your alley than it was affairs. You’re making connections with people. If you have the job seeking in common often you’ll become comrades arms here and they can help broaden broadened the scope of your reach their within the group context. What we’re really talking about is having one on one conversations? You can’t have one too many but the the second way that you can do. Networking conversation is individually in person. And that could happen in a group context but more often than not. It’s it’s you taking aching. Maybe the group context offline at another time or something of that nature so The the second way would be networking individually with so so if you’re going to the large group event and you meet someone that you want to have a conversation with. You don’t necessarily have to have that deep conversation there. If you’re in a position to set up at the time not too far in the future to get together individually then that can be really impactful conversation.

00:05:07 – 00:10:07

One you will have had the large group experience that you can talk about later compare notes what worked for you. What didn’t because that will be the beginning of your individual conversation? It’s sort of warms both parties up up and you can then talk about the things that are more important to both of you. Investing that time is really critical and building a relationship of trust short. It’s something we’ll get to a little bit later. Her what I look at in terms of the individual conversations. I kind of look at it if you’re not used to doing those things is start with the people you know I now. You shouldn’t just stay there. We talked about the downside of doing that but the next step is to get introduced to people. They know that you don’t yet know. And then going then onto people who you just flat don’t know talking to the people that you do know especially if they’re closer friends or even family members. You may think that you know everyone they do. But but that’s not true intellectually. You probably know that that’s not true. But what could they possibly due to introduce me to somebody. I don’t know well. Are you having the the conversation with them. I know I don’t talk to my closest friends about networking beyond the people that that I know to include the people they know if I’m taking that opportunity opportunity with someone that I do trust to say. Hey I really want to reach beyond my current circle. Can you help me meet New People. The chances are pretty a good. They’ll think of somebody and then it starts from there and don’t overlook that even though you may know the same people they might know that person a little bit better than you you do or in a different way in a different way and the challenge that you have when you go to people you know is they know us a certain person and if you don’t want to be known as that person you really have to change aged listening for you and so if I’m right now. People may know me as Andrew Realtor but now I’m Andrew Career Coach or executive coach leadership development person or or whatever. Exactly how do I then reach out to that person and have that conversation. Maybe that’s another podcast episode. or You could take a look at the anatomy of a networking conversational. Help you Louis. Some of those things on how to build a branding statement and to have a new conversation with the same people right if someone already perceives me as a specific specific identity or job title or whatever that might look like. It’s going to take some effort to undo that and it may never be successful it you think about the really close close personal relationships you have with people they always see you as how they met you or how they interacted with you so even if they know that you have shifted into to a new direction they may not make those same kinds of connections. That’s okay the idea then is to try to meet people who see you in the new identity or the new job title or whatever it is. He wanted us to define and have that. Networking conversation happened a little differently. The Third Way that you can think about executing this networking networking is to on the phone. I actually really appreciate this because it does a couple of things for me. It saves me a whole bunch of time trying to fit somebody you my schedule and then drive somewhere. Meet them and then drive back where I could actually be interacting with several other folks during that time or executing would I have done on my work so the one thing that I lead with especially as I am scheduling a phone conversation. First of all in person networking provides an opportunity to really communicate. One hundred percent of your message when you think about communication fifty five percent of what we communicate is in our body language. Another thirty three thirty eight percent is tone of voice. Only seven percent of what we communicate is in the words that we choose so. If we can’t meet in person I want to at least allow them almost half of the message to include tone of voice and that’s a phone call it really even even though it feels less personal than and in-person meeting and in fact that’s true it’s still is far better than email even that has its place the idea that you’re actually actually having an exchange in the moment is going to help you make that kind of progress. I also encourage coaching clients. If they’re doing networking in the person they can meet with in person isn’t available till six weeks down the road but they got fifteen minutes to talk on the phone right now by all means do it right take advantage of that it because you can set up the one two down the road for later absolutely and if you had a video camera on right now you could see there were actually using non verbal communication. Saly totally and I believe that that still translates maybe not as effectively as in person. But if you’re on the phone please continue to use the non verbal communication because because that will come through on the phone absolutely but you bring up video video. Chat is another way that you can networking network with people and if it’s different some people people don’t like to do it because it feels too much like facetime and they have associated video chatting with just the personal conversations.

00:10:07 – 00:15:04

The reason why they feel so personal is because has your having a lot more of the communication happening. It isn’t as impersonal as just a phone call. Other people may not like using video for for whatever reason. There are many addressed that carefully when you have an opportunity to video chat with someone to do that networking conversation. Don’t pass that up. Yeah don’t don’t say no I mean I would never turn down a conversation of any kind. Well maybe sometimes Scott reaches out to me at inopportune Mo- I just have to say no in the side effect of being able to do this. Networking thing really well is something. We’ve addressed and other podcasts. But it needs to be restated. Is that if I’m doing networking I’m practicing kissing an interview. If I’m doing my networking on the phone. I’m practicing for a phone screen. Many companies are now transitioning toward video interviews at the front end of a process. US and many of these might be recorded but there certainly is still all kinds of HR companies coming on the scene narrator revolving around video interviews. Yes I’ve I’ve seen that very recently. Where even someone who is local? You may be five minutes from their office and they’re still going to schedule a video interview. I appreciate appreciate why I it’s not my preference. It certainly isn’t what I would do if I were conducting the interview. But we’re finding this more and more common so so be prepared for that and the the advice and I think we may have said this in the past dress as if it’s the in person interview including put on the suit pants. Don’t wear Pajama Jammeh. Pants right. Yes because if you get hired you’ll be able to joke about that later dress for an in person interview even though it is via video not only will you appear more professional but you will behave differently. That’s number four using the video chat to do your networking number. Five is actually a group video environment. Virement many people haven’t thought about this but there’s a lot of video training and webinars. There’s a lot of things that go on online in a group video environment where you can have a zoom call Brian. There’s fifteen twenty people there and there’s all this silence and you’re like hey joe what do you do right. You know. It’s really funny. How something you go to learn ends up turning into networking interaction? which is a connection individually? That leads to something else. Absolutely idea that when you’re doing group video chat hat and you can see all the different faces on the screen and you can pay attention to every single one of them in one view and I think about panel interviews. Personally I enjoy them because for me it’s sort of a kind of performance aspect and so as I’m going through. I have to remember to address the person who asked the question but then to include everybody else and so that shifts with every question whoever is posing the question is the one who gets the majority of the eye contact. But I’m including everyone in when when you’re doing a group video chat you don’t have to worry about that. All you have to do is look at the camera. Remember to look at the camera because so often we see the people sitting At the computer doing their video chatting and they’re not actually looking at the camera. They’re looking at their screen. Be Aware that the reason why you want to look at your camera is so they I feel you are looking at them You’re addressing them. Personally it’s the same reason why. TV News will put the teleprompter glass in front of the camera. Laura so they are always looking into the camera that’s how they make connections with their viewers. Same thing in a group video chat. That’s how you build trust is to look somebody in the eye. We give the same advice when when you’re doing a maybe a linked in profile photograph. Is that you know you shouldn’t be having sunglasses on are looking off into the distance or whatever. Yeah so the group video chat. What kind of a variation of that that we might go into here is the sixth one and that is using the chat in sight of some sort of social network? Or Gosh. I’ve seen people. We’ll do this actually in gaming right they’ll be in a game with a group of players in there’s a chat going on and you know you’ll have some time there to say. Yeah I’m an engineer with Intel or whatever her and I’ve had people actually get interviews through a gaming chat fantastic point we think about the chat functions within facebook or linked tin or even the snapchat. And all these other the Grande Ecole a typical social media stuff. We don’t think of in this case gaming chat chat as a networking opportunity. But anytime you’re talking to someone you don’t know well even the Times you are talking to someone you do know well. These are opportunities for you food. If this subject comes up organically to start talking about things that matter in your career it’s another way to make a connection that you wouldn’t have had otherwise. Don’t past these things up. Keep the conversation topical based on whatever it is that brought you together. Allow people to know who you are how you want to move your career because you never know who’s going to be in a position to help each one of these social platforms.

00:15:04 – 00:20:03

Have some some way for you to put a status update or Lincoln has headlined headlines is just to see what you’re all about and on these gaming platforms. I know they have that too much like skype where you can type in. Hey what’s on your mind right now. It’s just a really really short blurb and that’s a great space to put in you know Looking for great engineering jobs in semiconductor manufacturing or wherever or changing the world one when candidate A. Ty tryon if you’re in HR. There are all sorts of ways that we use connectivity to connect with other people in my work I talk about connected leadership which is something other than connectivity that plays a role within it the idea of making connections with people all for the greater good that will have. It’s place what we’re talking about here is with connectivity. Let that be a tool for you to make connections with people that you wouldn’t necessarily have made that conversation really begin. don’t limit yourself to just linked in just facebook. Whatever that might happy? Don’t go into the danger of making it difficult on somebody else and once they say. Hey can you just send me a text message or can you call me. Use the method. They want you to you. Because then you actually get the networking done. Yes and so. Don’t use that as a dangerous excuse not to network because Oh I don’t know how to text message pige or oh. I don’t know how to do a video chat or oh I don’t have a Webcam. I would also challenge you. Don’t use the excuse. Oh I’m not comfortable. We don’t learn anything thing if we stay in our comfort zone. The learning happens when we’re outside of our comfort zone so if there is a platform or technology that you’re not necessarily comfortable with I would I’d say move yourself to get comfortable with a find out more about it and how it can be helpful to that brings us to the seventh way to network and that’s email now. A lot of people people will be completely comfortable with email. And I send a lot of email you probably do. Two or and networking rubs in the networking world. Is You actually have to have a dialogue with another person. Just sending an email is not networking. It is not dialogue. It is the way we can make networking happen. How do we set it up? Why would we definitely recommend that people send messages if you’re going to connect on Lincoln and don’t just connect send a message as to why because otherwise and why would they care and it’s not that they shouldn’t care is that sometimes you need to tell the email will work in a similar function? It will provide the context or the reason reason behind making that connection. And hopefully you’ll be able to set up something in person or at least a phone call. That should be the goal. The email in and of itself has not networking. It’s the the tool we used to start at. We’re looking for a back and forth. Yes in on the topic of Hey. I’M GONNA send a standard connection request on lengthen. And and maybe they don’t care. Do I want a group of people in my network that don’t care I don’t know if auto collector of connections right I am a collector of connected people. Meaning I want people. Will that will respond when I say a message so if I do get one of the great perspective one of those little boilerplate. Hey I want to join your network things right I send a message back and my only litmus test is there you have to respond. And that’s how I accept it. It’s do the same thing I have in fact we’ve talked about this in. I think doc in the anatomy of a networking conversation about those who only connect with those that they have spoken with while. I am a little freer about connecting with people. I totally understand that comes from if you have not met me in person. Why would I list you as a connection while I may not follow that same role? It’s certainly understandable. So that’s where the e mail comes in. How do we set up that in person discussion and you have to give them reasons to do so? Email L. is a fantastic tool. It’s easy just. Don’t hide behind it as what we’re saying so that’s the seventh way is through email the eighth way which is actually becoming. I think more more prevalent to be honest is through text messages or or SMS. And I see a lot of people doing this. Many different ways but traditionally. That’s just a the standard text message. The one thing I really appreciate when someone wants to network with me via text messages when they asked me if that’s okay they don’t assume assume by sending me a text message they ask me in advance. Is it okay if I send you a text message do you network via text messaging. I always say yes because has has actually the easiest way to get a hold of me during the day. It’s often difficult for me to take calls because I’m either with clients. I am conducting training. Whatever that might look like so? I can’t always take the call. Not everyone likes to leave a voicemail messages which is unfortunate because I always respond to voicemail text message. You’re sure to get me even if I can’t respond right away but ask me I.

00:20:03 – 00:25:02

I just send people text messages. I assume that they want them. Maybe hang on Scott. Is it okay. Did I send you a okay. Well you’re you also have the advantage of having a role with your clients. There is already an expectation of wanting one thing that kind of communication in the moment from your perspective. I think that makes a lot of sense. I’m coming at it from from inside an HR world. Those kinds of relationships are a little different just by nature when people ask me. Is it okay to send me. A text. Message is showing respect because not everyone is comfortable using their personal cell l. phone not everyone wants to blur the lines between their professional conversations and their personal conversations if there are different perspectives. On how to do this I wanna be courteous enough to acknowledge a potential difference and then let them decide whether or not that’s good for them. I rarely get a no when I ask I. I liked text message because I get the message right away. With a voicemail message it’s going to be a possibly a little bit of time before I can then call in especially if time facilitating training or they didn’t give you an explicit reason why they were calling just call me back. That’s OK somebody I already know. Yeah give me a reason to call back. If you’re leaving me. The voice mail. Yeah please leave me a message. Text messages saying. Tell me why I should call back. It doesn’t have to go to great length. Give me a reason. That’s that’s the eighth way which is text. Message the ninth way is old school. It’s through the mail and I have seen people exchange correspondence through the mail. And I I would encourage everybody listening to this podcast to at least consider putting some form of networking by mail into their repertoire. Because not many people are doing it anymore that Mary view that means it’s not a noisy channel like email in fact I have found over time those little blurbs and we’re not talking marketing postcards I’m I think about some of the things that I get from insurance agents or realtors or a number of different businesses dentists chiropractors we get those those mailers all the time and we don’t really pay much attention to the molest that serves a need that we happen to have and we don’t already have a practitioner that we that we turn turn to what I’m talking about is a Little Card or short handwritten note that expresses something that is of value to me. Whatever that might be the idea that I got a handwritten note that someone else took the time and was courteous enough to go to that effort I am paying attention? Listen I don’t see enough of it anymore and personally I respond very well to it. It does mean that the other person needs to find out what my addresses I may be expecting affecting after they ask me. So what’s Your ailing address. And that’s okay because it happens so rarely and I think it’s important if you can capture a cell phone number in address just put it in your database. Can part of your process is to gather that information. I’ve also seen people use mail as promotional tool like that just to send. Hey I was thinking of you. I saw this article and they’ve actually cut write an article out of a magazine and thrown into printed it. Yeah they’re reading it online yet. Most publications nations allow you to print their articles. So yeah that is again. You’re being thoughtful. You’re going to your own effort spending your own time thinking about someone else that always and I realize you should never say never always. That always does well. That’s the nine ways that you can get the networking done i. I think it’s important to remember. What do you really need to make that conversation successful? And what that might mean first of all is that you have to use more another one of these methods to get to a person if there’s somebody that’s worthy of you actually pursuing that person as a networking connection because you feel it would be valuable to them and to you. But they don’t respond to a phone call or they don’t respond to your Lincoln message or an email right. You just keep going down the list of communication methods. Don’t let taken a response. Let’s now don’t do all those within a five minute period or or even a week’s period. Yeah yeah spread them out over time and seriously. No one is going to mind if you you are gently persistent. If you’re stalking them. That’s going to be a problem if you are pushing. That’s going to be a problem in most cases but if you’re if you do it gently the and thoughtfully especially if you’re talking to other people within their organization or whatever that looks like to find out what style do have what they appreciate your far more likely to land where you want to really. This is about developing trust if you’re pushy. They’re not going to trust you. People talk about. They don’t want to be sold. That heavy-handed sales sales type of demeanor doesn’t usually land very well if you have a good communication going on where both parties are being frank and open in an honest and thoughtful of the other person.

00:25:02 – 00:27:56

That’s where the real meat comes in. I’m just open. I’m interested in an open channel and the reason I said that way is if one method method isn’t working you’re right. We need to accommodate that person and find the why that is so that we can actually open a channel of communication and that’s where the next component comes in. And that’s it’s dialogue if you have an open communication channel great but if you’re the only one there or if you’re dominating conversation yeah just be conscious that this should be a dialogue back back and forth two way communication. Yes and then we were talking before we started about the concept of mutual benefit. You really need to make sure that you’re focused on what value you bring the other person. Not just what they can do for you and we also WanNa make the distinction that it’s not just saying saying what can I do for you. It’s really following through on that. How are you going to follow through on providing value to this other person? Even if that’s not obvious you could ask them. What can I do and they say? Well I don’t really know. Keep that part of the conversation going so that they understand after more than one conversation. Sation with you that you are truly interested in helping them if you can. You’re going to open those channels and built the trust mindset we talk about this a lot mindset any component opponent of your career journey navigating. These waters is going to require a certain kind of mindset. Can’t be overstated. Being mindful of the bigger picture is going to help you remember that nobody gets to success all by themselves. They have had people helping them along the way. So that’s what we’re looking for. What do those relationships look like? How can the more of them? How do I keep the Communication Channel Open and active and continuing the dialogue? I hope you got something out of this particular session today. Eh You can get all the show notes and resources and the Anatomy of networking conversation on our website at Jobseeker’s radio DOT COM forward slash zero seven zero and again that bravery source is the anatomy of never came conversation e book that puts the ideas together in one place to to help you figure out how this is going to work for you. Thank you for joining us for this episode of Job Seekers Radio We know that your investment of time and attention you might be on the treadmill color doing some kind of workout or whatever maybe in the car right we understand. It’s greatly appreciated to have your attention during this time. We would appreciate it if you head over to itunes. If that’s your platform that form and go ahead and leave us a rate and review. Yeah we really liked the feedback. Ask questions there too. We do an occasional podcast where we we are answering your questions so if you have any send them our way. We’ll put that in a future. podcasts Lime Andrew and Scott in the words of John shed a ship ship in harbor is safe but that is not what ships are built for. Thanks everybody by by.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Keeping and staying on track with your search whether you are working or not requires some momentum. Expand and grow your career with networking – continually.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Keeping a perpetual mindset without judgement.
• Realistic expectations regarding loyalty to your organization and yourself.
• Level of physical and mental health that relates to working in the right role and culture.
• Being open to any opportunity with objectivity. 
• Stay current with industry, experience, resume, LinkedIn profile, and your results measurable.
• Skill-up your experience with training, certifications, and development opportunities.
• Getting and being a mentor for brainstorming possibilities and maintaining accountability.

Resources (including affiliate links)

Mondays Are The Riskiest Days 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:01 – 00:05:09

local job seekers radio. I’m Andrew and I’m Scott. This production is meant to provide meaningful support to find great careers. Faster whether you’re working king or not. Hey Scott did you know that today’s episode is actually brought to you by the Anatomy of networking conversation. Really tell me more. It’s actually an e book it can be found on our website at job seekers radio DOT com. That’s amazing in today’s episode. We’re talking about maintaining momentum in your career earlier. This is something that we talk about networking because a lot of times people get into jobs on this has been true of myself. We get into jobs and then we think okay you know live. I got the job I wanted. There’s lots to learn here. I I have so much to do. I’m busy and we don’t network anymore. And so all those connections actions just sort of die on the vine and what. I’ve had to find out. The hard way is often in our careers. The the only way to truly maintain momentum is to keep that networking going not all of the connections. That I make for my future are going to be made in in the company. I’m working for right now so if I want a career that’s going to expand and grow and whether that’s moving up the food chain or that I’m I’m broadening the scope of what I’m doing. It’s a lot easier to keep that momentum going if I don’t stop networking we advocate that you take perpetually looking mindset mindset perpetually having your eyes open looking around always looking for the next opportunity not did you have to take it not that you have to find the perfect perfect situation. Although seeking is the fun the way to keep that as fun is to stop judging what you’re coming up in front of you know whatever is happening. The different opportunities thirties that present themselves. If we’re thinking oh well that one doesn’t look good enough for that one doesn’t fit well enough. We’re actually limiting ourselves to the possibilities. Instead of we stop judging and we really look at what could bring us some enjoyment. Were far more likely to find them. Enjoyment loyalty is something that many companies talk about in many job seekers or employees look for does it really exist. It does in my point of view. It does but you have to be realistic. Mystic about how that actually happens because the company will be loyal to you until they don’t need you anymore can’t afford you anymore and for are and I’m using air quotes business reasons they let you go or they reorganize and lay people off whatever that might look like in the specifics loyalty he is great as long as it makes sense and too often I talked to people who feel. They have shown their loyalty to their company. And it hasn’t hasn’t been returned and I would venture to say and I haven’t yet talked to any business owner or executive. Who would disagree with me that you are are? You should be loyal to yourself. I the company may or may not be able to show loyalty the way they talk about it and rather than spending your energy judging that be loyal to yourself yourself first. You’re the only person responsible to cover your needs. What does that look like loyalty to myself? I look at it in terms of active participation meaning. I’m actively participate in my career my satisfaction what I love about my job and see what I can do to do you more that than I am to say. Oh that’s somebody else’s responsibility. No I completely agree. There’s also the idea that the it kind of loyalty that I get my company should be reciprocated and without judging that concept I would ask that person coaching question is that true. Tell me about that. Why why do you think that way? What is what does that? Look like what are you expecting from that because whether you are delighted or disappointed by something as really defined why does the gap between what you expect it and what was delivered so if that kind of loyalty ends up being a certain expectation where you get disappointed. It’s because you had an expectation that wasn’t delivered. What was your expectations realistic? Is it even appropriate. Because if your expectation is is that they will be loyal to you in a very dispassionate way and they end up being more loyal to you as some companies that we saw during the great recession where they did everything and they could to avoid laying off people that meant they had to forego other things. If that’s the kind of loyalty that that you have experienced and yet your expectation was less personalized is then you would be delighted by that company. It’s always the gap between what you expect and what’s delivered. So are your expectations accurate. There’s there’s plenty of research out there. Studies on job place satisfaction. And how when your expectations are not met that you actually have higher anxiety Zaidi more stress it impacts you medically speaking in fact one of the people that I work closely with had a stroke on a Monday morning at the office.

00:05:09 – 00:10:01

And so if you think about it what would have caused that. While strokes kept many different courses. The only reason I bring that up is because what did they say. Most suicides happen on Monday Mornings Mornings most heart attacks happen on Monday mornings to the list goes to the list is extensive and pretty exhaustive. That means if I’m not an active participant in my future future and I feel the company is GonNa provide me. Loyalty is going to impact me physically. Yeah it’s GonNa set you up for something you really don’t want to deal with I. I completely agree as a result. I think if we are able to keep our eyes and ears open at all times for any opportunity that comes up and I’m not saying any opportunity for job. I’m talking about the opportunities to talk. Talk to someone you to talk about. Something really are passionate about opportunities that may advance your skill set in a new direction that still job related but but is going going to give you a different set of experiences and therefore the knowledge that comes with them being open to those can really offset the negatives that were suggesting here here Having that realistic idea of loyalty I think is important to start. Opportunities come in many different forms opportunities may be presented to to you. I’m the type of person that I’m not ever going to not listen. I’m happy to listen. I’m having to keep my eyes open and listen to opportunity whether or not I go go depends on the opportunity. However I’ve seen people do this Scott where they’re like okay? I’m happy in my role. I’m doing really well. I’m not actively managed my career but I’m I’m satisfied satisfied right and so I don’t WanNa put the effort in to keeping momentum. I don’t need it and then an opportunity comes along and they say no I’m not interested. That’s fine okay. So you bring up a point. I just had a conversation with a colleague recently. Who is telling me her experience? In her current job she had been working for a competitor and very successfully successfully with that competitor for some time and she had worked with this guy who ended up being the chief retail officer for her current company. Who who contacted her at that time saying hey I got an opportunity? I’d like to work for me and I won’t go into the details of why that surprised her but just suffice it to say who’s at a much much higher level and so it surprised her that she would even be on his radar right. She turned him down because she perceived her current situation as being everything she wanted later on. He contacted her again and again she said no what was really interesting. was that then. She had found with a some change in the hierarchy where she used to be. She found herself in a very different situation. Something went south I don’t remember the specifics. But she did not have a positive experience and fifteen minutes after getting off the phone with someone about the the negative experience she got a call from this guy again so this time she was open to the possibilities and what we talked about was the fact that had she been open to it in the first place she probably would have moved faster and further in her career. Had she at least had the conversation in the beginning rather than waiting for the first try. Now it’s my observation that people don’t normally get three chances. She did art. Yeah she did you get one chance she did did it and she is now a VP for her company. Had she not said no the first time when could she have been VP. I mean it’s it’s anybody’s guess but but it. It was just a really interesting story that she got three chances and she took it up on the third one because her current situation had changed. I really value the advice of being open to who at least half the conversations to see what you might be missing even if you think it’s a company you don’t WanNa work for. I’ve had a lot of those. Two people identified a company right. They sit there in. This is business or some industry and our for anybody. As long as it’s not that one and then that one calls and not interested I would say go talk to him anyway. You have nothing to lose the time and maybe a little gasoline. If you have to drive things change they hire new people. New Leadership Company goes a new direction. What you heard in the past may not be the current reality the other the thing we encourage you to do is really evaluate your experience and trends in your industry that might require some analysis in evaluating yourself? You could take assessments. That means cataloging your experiences actively I encourage people to put their resume on some kind of rotation in their calendar. Every three to six months she should probably refresh shit. That’s a great great idea and then say okay. What have they done the last three to six months that extra incorporate in my resume? Even as you’re going through it start documenting project you’re working on was the pre. What was the action? What was the outcome? How do we measure success while that also gives you the perspective of coming back to see what you might be able to pare down to? It may be that. I put something on my resume that I felt very strongly about six months ago. But as I’m reading it now I realized that from a bigger picture a perspective that really.

00:10:01 – 00:15:01

Isn’t that important space on a resume needs to be used very wisely so I love the idea of coming back to periodically early and regularly. There’s two things I recommend on resume side of things even though I’m not an advocate per se of resume back right as an effective tool but it is is a great place to catalog things and yes you can have kind of like a core master resume. That has everything on it which I actually like. I think a good so that’s great then I can so much easier to carve away exactly to add back in up so that do if you’ve got an exhaustive resume takeout anything if you’re making an application location. Take out anything that doesn’t apply to the job that you’re doing right now because if you give a four page resume for anything other than executive position it probably is not could be read by. That’s neither here nor there. Well this also means staying in touch with what’s happening in the industry. What the trends? What are the job title? Whereas the salary expectation where the salaries stories going which skills required to be successful in the future and kind of mapping that out so that you know am I on the right path might not on the right path? In which half half do I really WanNa take especially if you’re in a job type or an industry where trends are really talking about the future of the kind of working doing if you’re not moving in that direction that may become a liability for you so whether or not that need certifications or some other kind of short term training I would would say be on top of that of course as you go through and start cataloging some of these experiences you identify these trends. Yes some decision to make on. What sort of of experiences do I need to gain? Does my current company offered that or is there another role inside the company. I should be looking at or should I look outside sure. And if I can’t get hit that information or that train or that experience I need to get some training from somewhere. Yes and a lot of companies offer tuition reimbursement whether that’s an accredited college or certification through local industry groups. Whatever that might look look like a lot of companies actually offer that even and beyond the scope of your specific job right now so look into that as a benefit if you are employed looking at the the benefits that are available to you through your employer employer that brings up the idea of staying engaged with some leaders your industry or even in your career in a mentor capacity or even even becoming a mentor to somebody else can be helpful because as you grow in your career some of the things that might happen to you to maintain momentum is the leadership shit trajectory? It’s not always that someone can go their entire career and grow with momentum as an individual contributor even if you’re thinking of of moving up with an accompanying remember that there are fewer top jobs than there are lower level jobs and so those opportunities come fewer and further between the idea of of continuing on with a mentor. Means that you’re always talking about ways that you can develop regardless of your position and being a mentor puts you in that position nation of helping someone else so that they see you as the leader and as those conversations continue throughout your career. You’re helping to advance your career. I I cannot say enough about staying active with your mentor. Even if that’s just a quarterly e mail to say I’m thinking about you just reestablishing the contact helps you remember the things that you talked about. Actively managing those relationships is actually an exercise in networking. And it’s an opportunity for you to incubate those relationships over time to either decide that they’re effective for you or not effective for you as you go through in your career you’re probably GonNa have different people bowl. Come into and out of your professional life and I think about one of my mentor stat. I actually have not kept in touch with as much as I’d like to. And and one of the ideas that you and I talked about before we started is the idea of brainstorming and I was thinking as we started this recording about what kind brainstorming I could do with my mentor Dennis and and what that might look like and actually as soon as we’re done I’m going to send him off an email to say. Hey I was thinking about you because he would be the perfect person right now for me in my own career to brainstorm ideas on how I want to set up my future. Sure because he’s further down the road than I am and I. I admire him greatly. The idea that I am value to the people that I currently work for are can be augmented by this brainstorming conversation that I can have with my mentor by the same token as I give of my my own time time to others who asked me for my advice that also brings me benefit in from a different perspective. This is precisely why we even do breakfast. Club or even this podcast odd cast is to mentor.

00:15:01 – 00:20:17

People in that capacity to help them gain momentum or maintain momentum in their career search. And that’s why we do what we do. It’s a labor of love really. I also really value your perspective on personal accountability and we talk about that in our breakfast club and it really is. How do we put that into practice? Because I will remind you what you tell me at breakfast club in terms of your networking commitment when I remind you of that at our next meeting. That’s not about me. That’s it’s about whether or not you’re holding yourself accountable. Because what I think doesn’t matter it isn’t about me on any level but I want you to know that I pay attention so you know so that if you hold yourself. Accountable that sense of accomplishment comes is just a reminder really on an accountability. I like accountability because I liked liked to know that somebody else is watching. That’s all I mean. I don’t need somebody to twist my arm to put me in handcuffs. Sure but I also think well. Let’s not go there. I also also think about going to the gym if I go with a workout partner. I’m far more likely to show up. Then if I don’t have a workout partner in it’s just left to my own sense of my own motivation because there are moorings that I really don’t want to go to the gym. So accountability is something that are mentors. Our friends our networking contacts can all help us with breath and there is nothing wrong with saying hold me accountable ask for it. Yes thank you Sir may have another and you know we kind of danced around it a little bit here but every every person that I know that has had good momentum in their career is always adding tools to their kit or clubs to the golf bag or whatever you WANNA call it. They’re always always working on something. They’re always learning new things or gaining new education. I have a colleague right now. She’s getting certified in instructional design. And what’s interesting. Testing is as part of our. We have a weekly meeting in our group that She’s talking about the things that she’s learning and I’m realizing not only what I benefit benefit from getting the same certification but she’s giving us the resources right now that she’s already I can start working on things from a perspective that and I didn’t know or coming back to a reminder of some of the principles that I received training on years ago in sort of forgotten it is a really beneficial. Show thing to get back into the learning mode. And that’s something we see top executives being quoted on is that they never stop learning. I think that’s good advice for for all of us. It’s a key skill. On today’s marketplace insurance is having the versatility and the capacity to learn new things and execute on that learning and and what I took away from what you just said is the value of having a peer mentor. Someone that’s in the same space as you but maybe has done something a little differently than I can learn from it. Apply on my job today. This is usually beneficial. If you’re lucky enough to work in an organization that that promotes learning take advantage of of it. I’d sort of kicked myself. I’ve had opportunities to get education with company and is it happens. I was in a job that I wasn’t really enjoying. I loved the work. Benign -sarily people. I was doing it for so I didn’t take advantage of that and that just held me back. It didn’t hold them back. Try to get the judgment out of it. I would say don’t pursue things I just on your own. That don’t interest you. I think that can lead to some self-defeating behaviors thoughts as well. Follow the things that charge you wab that that keep you motivated. Because that’s one way you’re going to keep your momentum if you’re in a job where they ask you to get certified or they give you an opportunity to do something that maybe maybe you wouldn’t have been interested in Jones. Judge that one either because it may be that that spark said new interest at you hadn’t considered and you never know where that’s GonNa take you. It’s it’s always important to pause and just consider what they’re offering you because in many of the organizations I’ve been with training was just done because it was something that had to be done for the business and that’s fine if you have a choice and you can take it or not take it then you have an opportunity then to make an evaluation of what that is is. It’s something that I wish I would have proactively done in many of the organizations I had been to say okay. Let me look at the menu if you’ve got one. Many companies don’t have menu of course are draining and I’d like to go this direction. And how can I make that happen. Build more proactive in the types of education that I pursued and the other thing is we can start. Start doing that at any time so any of our listeners that are thinking oh well you know it’s too late for me no it isn’t. It’s never too late to learn. You just have to be interested in doing it. And curiosity is is probably probably the thing that’s going to keep your momentum more than any other concept that you you face if you don’t have that menu from your company then there can be informal formal ways to learn and that’s based on what interests you and the choices you make it’s up to you. There’s hundreds of thousands of podcasts. Just like this one. Well well maybe no no ours is pretty special education available today for free in podcast world you can and you know come in and download things on leadership or finance or investing or whatever.

00:20:17 – 00:25:03

Whatever there’s always something to be learned from somebody body else you might even decide to have your own podcast? I also think about audio books for those who prefer the listening mode of learning. If you’RE GONNA Ford audiobooks books. That’s great. Read them or listen to them. If you can’t your library may have audio books that you can check out. That’s really helpful for those of us who don’t have a lot of extra time to read at home. We can still get that reading done by going to the library. What does that take? I’m GonNa say the outside. Maybe thirty minutes of a your day. Go to the library. Check out an audio book and by the time you have to turn that back in you probably will have been able to finish it. Don’t discount the various opportunities that are available to you if you look at what schooling is schooling is paying somebody else to tell you to read a book and and to write a paper or take a test to validate whether or not what they told you to read in the book or what they said in lecture is really what they said and to validate that you’ve been paying attention when it comes to just reading a book Know someone who was talking to a psychologist at one point and and he was talking about how he ran all these self help books and various things on psychology and then the psychologist that he was talking to suggested that he probably had read as much as he would have had he been pursuing a degree on it. Self Education is absolutely option that we have. There are a number of workshops that are available to us either paid or perhaps through your local chamber of Commerce or or some other organization may be free of charge to members or are two people in the communities. There are all sorts of ideas that perhaps you haven’t known about because you haven’t known to look that brings up the idea of webinars actually. It’s a trend friend workshops if they’re an onsite thing or something that have to be scheduled and also all the time you have to go to this place. webinars are becoming very. Are you bic witness. Today you can get a lot of great training over the Internet and some of those webinars actually could lead to certifications so if it’s a paid webinar and and they have a series check it out whether or not that organization offers his certificate of completion for doing a series of webinars. You’d be surprised what’s out there there’s a large catalog also of online courses that you could take whether those are paid or free or something like core Sarah. I think it’s called where there’s universities providing in classes fro funding source. Yeah it’s amazing. How much content is now available for you to take advantage of? That doesn’t cost anything. And don’t forget to look at those disorganization no charge for some of it. Sometimes they offer things for free. So don’t pass those up and see if your company has an agreement with an organization like lengthen right access to Lincoln learning or whatever right. I know we get access to Lincoln learning through the library for free. So there’s a lot of ways you know there’s so many resources available sometimes. Sometimes it just comes down to what topic do I really want to know about so that I don’t get overwhelmed trying to learn too much at once and as your networking with people they may know of some of these opportunities already. So be sure that that’s part of your conversations. I think about the phrase that I heard years ago. I don’t think about what I don’t think about makes perfect sense as I’m having these conversations others can give me the idea. Maybe I’d forgotten that the library would would have those opportunities whatever it is. Keep talking to people. If you want to keep the momentum wintom going than networking is going to help along with everything else that we’ve mentioned. I had another client a friend of mine actually who was looking to make career transition and he relied on somebody in the industry to tell him you know you should get a certification in aws so he went and did that and got the certification and now. Oh He’s out doing the job search. Sometimes you’re right go to the people who are in the industry you WANNA be in to determine what is current relevant and in demand now so that I can get that training now to be ready to hit the ground running from the beginning. That’s why we’ve actually created the Anatomy of networking conversation. What’s up well? It’s actually an e book that helps walk you through step by step including companion audio for those of you. Who liked to listen to us on this wonderful podcast that’s Okay through the idea of how do I now work. That’s something that isn’t really common for a lot of people to understand and we break it down for you for steps. That’s that’s fantastic easy steps and it’s a free resource so if you go to job seekers radio DOT com slash zero six nine. You’ll find the show no notes and the anatomy of a networking conversation.

00:25:03 – 00:25:44

e-book all right. They’re free to download. We encourage you to go there and leave some comments as well on this episode Please give me a little comment box at the bottom if you have any questions. There’s a contact US box there too. It’s just a wonderful website. You should spend lots of time time. Well thanks everybody for being here. We appreciate you. Investing your time and attention in job seekers radio head over to itunes and subscribe to get future episodes and while there you can also give out rate and review and give us your feedback there too. I’m Andrew and I’m Scott in the words of Sir Edmund Hillary. No one remembers as you climbed Mount Everest the second time. Thanks everybody bye bye.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Urgent needs for income can cloud the judgement relating to company cultural fit.

Scott and Andrew discuss strategies for working through the process of recovering from desperate needs for employment.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• How to stay true to your values in challenging situations.
• Taking inventory of your work styles and matching with chosen employers.
• Focusing your mindset on your strengths to perform well on interviews.
• Building the right branding presentation.
• Identifying gap jobs.
• Creatively managing finances. 
• Expanding the gap between virtue and despair. 
• The type of people to surround yourself with.

Resources (including affiliate links)

Resilience EpisodesThe Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment063 The Number One Secret to Job Satisfaction 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:02 – 00:05:05

welcome to job seekers radio. I’m Andrew and I’m Scott. This production is meant to provide you the listener meaningful support to fight great careers careers faster. And that’s whether you are working or not by the way. This episode today is brought to you by the anatomy of a networking conversation. It’s an e-book and a free resource that you can download at job seekers radio DOT COM in today’s show we talk about balance balancing cultural fit and the urgent need for for income not uncommon very common. Both of us have had situations where income was necessary very very interesting. I think that’s true of most Savar. Listening to income is necessary I. It’s just the urgency. That may or may not be really a driver for some people. I think one person that I know who decided to move to Portland for whatever reason he was between jobs and he and his family decided to move all the way across the country to settle here in Portland. Income was not really eighty. Something he needed urgently he had enough in savings that he knew he’d be safe for while still it doesn’t last forever. He wasn’t in the one percent that isn’t able to spend and all the money’s making on interest so you know a job is needed but then was also talking to someone recently who is badly under employed at the moment and she she is running out of money and so the the the need to get a full time job where she’s really supporting herself is urgent and she’s finding herself looking at potential jobs that are beneath her skill. Set that pay less than what she’s looking for and there’s a lot of other stuff going on that really digs into herself confidence. So that’s part of what is driving this discussion today. Whether you’re employed or unemployed the need for money Israel your many people if you have obligations and you’re staring down at your bank account balance and you need a job then take the next job. Right comes along and there’s really nothing wrong with that. I realized that nobody wants to take a job. They’re not going to enjoy and I think that’s healthy perspective. In fact I think that’s healthier here than those who say. Oh well I can just work any job. And they don’t really care they they may not care as an employer. I want them to care. How do you balance that? I really think that this this conversation begins with knowing what you want in the first place. What do you want an employer and even if you are feeling that urgency that you just have to get a job Bob? It’s critical that you spend the time to decide. What is it that you actually want to many times? I hear people talk about. Oh well you know I. I have transferable skills I can work for anyone. It’s not industry specific. And so why are they hiring me and when I asked him well what do you want to an employer that well any employer is fine as long as an. I’m thinking wait a minute. They haven’t done any research they haven’t made. They haven’t documented any of their desires. How then can can you express your enthusiasm for job that you’re implying for if you don’t even know what you want? Take that time. What is it about the employers that you’ve enjoyed enjoyed that help? You enjoy them and even if you’re the type where when you start you love the company and when you leave you hate the company every single time and. I know that it doesn’t always happen that way. Let’s just say that’s worse case scenario. What were the things that you enjoy when you began those kinds of cultural fit type of concepts that that you need to be aware of? Why did it work for you? How did that fit your own style? How did that fit your sense of pace at work? It was doing the kind kind of thing that helps you feel like hey I want to get up in the morning and do that some more today. If you are aware of those now you can start matching the companies ace who profess those sorts of cultural concepts and that is where this conversation begins. You’ve got to do that research. It gives you focus. It does and if you are just going to be taking the next job that comes along shouldn’t it at minimum be ones that you’ve chosen not ones that were forced on you and if you look at the menu order from the menu. You’re the only one to blame. If you get indigestion especially if you know when you eat that thing you’re gonNA be getting it. I mean here’s the thing thing I’ve seen this so many times is that you choose which opportunities you go after even if you need work now that’s beneath you you still have choices and even though there’s probably millions of job postings and you’re just gonNa hit them shotgun which I don’t recommend it is probably better to identify the kinds of the things that you stand for. I heard it said once to where you stand were will ultimately determine where you sit and where you sit will ultimately determine where you stand and I I always take that with me as if I don’t stand for something that I’m going to sit where I don’t WanNa sit. It’s interesting to me because I had this conversation with someone with people who really currently need work and they feel like I can’t pick and choose.

00:05:05 – 00:10:13

I have to take the next job that comes along. Well you are picking and choosing using if you weren’t you would probably get that job whether it’s at the local grocery store or some other minimum wage entry level position there are. Are those jobs out there. Picking fruit in the fields. Whatever we don’t take those jobs because we’re judging them right so you really are making a choice? Let’s not not beat ourselves up over that there’s a good reason why we’re making these choices. You have your reasons stick with them so much healthier position to be in. If you’re we’re looking at a need it is an urgent need. You need to take the first job coming along. Then it’s also your choice to look at what that job can do for you. That is positive positive. This is not your career goal to take a receptionist position. It’s not your career goal to work at a McDonald’s so what if you can find good good things about that role that’s going to bring the income. It can be a gap job the job. You’re you take. That will buy time to get the job you really want. They’re still something positive. You can get from that and I’ve been there. I’ve taken those kinds of jobs and the only time I ever left a job like that because because it wasn’t something that I could do when that something was physical when I physically could not sustain the effort needed and this was just a an additional job job that I was doing for a holiday income and physically just couldn’t keep up the way I could have twenty five years ago with something else I learned from it. That was very positive. Take the time you need aide understand what income you need. What is this all going to look like? Then look at. The positive is that it can bring whether you think you’re above this job or not. Don’t overlook the value of actually presenting your unique bestself to the marketplace. Because what you’re thinking what. You’re feeling the emotions that you have if if you’re presenting that to the marketplace I’ll take any job that comes along then it’s harder for me as a coach or even Lawyer end or anybody to help you as a person who’s I dunno fairly well connected in Portland. I’m not GonNa Brag about it but I know a lot of people and I’m happy to introduce people cool to anybody and you see this at breakfast club. We asked people what. What is it that you want to do that? We’re not there to uncover their their shame or or to put them in a position in of despair. It’s help them connect with what they want. It was really interesting and one of the breakfast club meetings. There was someone there who was really feeling pulling down because she hadn’t gotten a good job in a long time and she was coming to this group to to get some new ideas and I think you were the one that asked her the question. What what she wanted to do and she started to talk very specifically about the things that she really enjoyed doing and she was a different person in that moment she showed up completely completely differently with confidence and with a certain eloquence that if she could bring that into every conversation she ever had? I am convinced vinced that she would have a job at this point or she would have found one very quickly she was in this mode of. I need a job. I need a job any job. And and we couldn’t seem to get to that sense of accomplishment and self confidence in the same way after that one moment so to your point mindset is a lot so as we’re thinking of you know. Do I take this job. Well look at it for what it offers look at the benefits. Take the the gap job that you need. Don’t stop networking. Keep that part of your efforts going beyond this this job or career shift. Whatever that is too I totally give up my career? Well not if you feel that strongly about it may need to take a gap job keep networking not to talk about finances or anything but you could always find ways to lower your cost of living. I know I’ve done it. I’ve gotten rid of automobiles that it had large payments you know. Let’s not overlook that side either. Is that if you’re in a position where you know you’re burn rate is pretty high. You can always do things this in some fashion to reduce the burn rate of. Have a friend. Actually going through this right now. Who is car just broke down at repair? Costs are beyond what he can pay. So he’s in the process right now choosing whether or not to keep the car and he said to me that he could save almost a thousand dollars a month if he would give up the car a thousand dollars a month when you think about the gas repairs that he’s been putting in yeah. He said he’d he’d already put on a total over the last couple of years. Four thousand on his credit card took pay for the repairs on the car and unflagging. Well that’s a really hefty down payment. But of course you know you don’t know what what’s coming up and he doesn’t have a car payment right now with this car so okay grant that he could save nine hundred and something dollars a month if he just got rid of the car altogether and he he just moved into an apartment that is downtown.

00:10:13 – 00:15:30

He’s currently walking to work. He can walk to the grocery store. He can take public transit anywhere anywhere he needs to go. Why wouldn’t you now? I understand one of the responses to that question is while I have my independence when I have my car totally really get that. Do you need that independence or is that a preference because if it’s truly need then you need to make sure that you’re fulfilling. Oh filling that need but if it’s a preference what are all the advantages of choosing ticket rid of that car so now all of a sudden you totally changed your income companies just by turning the key on one thing and what you’ve done is you’ve created distance between virtue and despair and you’ve kind of separated these two things where it’s like. Hey all I’ve seen is despair now pushing that away and I’ve seen virtue I’m seeing possibility. I’m seeing potential. I’m seeing hope and just these little things that you’d never the thought would have that advantage to your. I call it the spirit. Whatever you WANNA call it to your soul I mean each has one hopefully? Why are you looking at me that way? No I completely agree. And it’s giving yourself permission to make the choices this you need to make without losing the hope that comes through that networking looking through different lenses. And maybe it is taking a lower job. You’re giving yourself permission. Just do what you need to right now so things don’t become a problem because you’re boring them and still we come back to that idea. How do I balance cultural fit to the need for income when you are doing the things that bring you that sense of hope you are far more likely to recognize the companies that are going to give view the things you need? Because you’re in that head space right now and as you said before if instead you’re going to the interview table with I need this job I’m desperate you’re going to show show up differently. They’re going to read you differently and having gone through interviews as long as I have. I’m telling you you will show up differently. I will notice. I may not put my finger on so you are not going to show up as your best most confident. Self keep looking keep applying keep networking. Yes it’s a grind we get at and and you can actually listen to all of the job seekers radio episodes and you’re likely to get a little bit of understanding of how to build some resilience and how to use some of these tools talking about. If you haven’t done so already I would go back and listen to some of those episodes that we have where we highlight resilience. And how are we build the muscle. Stay with it because it it can be this escape right. We’re just trying to escape hopelessness or even helplessness or despair. Despair over time. Your standards of what quality job is for you. We’ll go down as your needs for income increase and that means you’re gonNA sacrifice your principles and I see that happening. I know I’ve been in those types of situations myself. There’s also something to be said I can keep my standards. Sanders had can keep the things that I find. Most important to me I can keep those at the forefront while still may be taking that gap job or maybe taking a you know getting into the company I wanted but not really at the level or in the position that I wanted to. And that curtails my ability to get out and do as much networking Zygi ed or to do the kinds of have the kinds of conversations. I’ve enjoyed in the past what that does in my own decision making process then is to help me me. Focus on keeping the quality of those networking conversations. Maybe it takes more effort to find them at the Times that I’m able to do it and that’s okay right because I will keep my focus on what’s important to me despite having a gap job I’m still going to be able to talk to other people about what it is. That is important and to me. What drives me? And that is the part. That doesn’t change in terms of personal branding and having some kind of ability to talk about it effectively. It’s not uncommon. Common that many of our listeners can be their own worst critic and it just perpetuates disorientation or whatever you WanNa call it where we need to really latch onto something. The thing I would refer to as despair avoidance principles and. Maybe that’s maybe I just need to get out and exercise. Maybe I just need to do some different for its series of activities. I just saw this morning. That talked about how just getting out in nature makes people feel better at it helps their blood pressure sure. It helps their cognitive abilities. Just to take a walk through the woods if you have someplace where you can take that kind of getting out and doing something that feels feels good will help you far more than just grinding through online applications hour after hour you may think that’s counter intuitive in our experience pairing citizens we see the benefits of all the time whenever we’re talking to somebody who uses them it helps you maintain some sort of disciplined consistency resilience all those qualities that we talk about when we’re in a situation like now I think about the book the power of now and the focus on what is happening right this minute.

00:15:30 – 00:19:42

You can’t do anything about the past and you actually can’t do anything about the future. I laugh because of course we all plan for the future to some degree. The only thing you can actually do something in with is what’s happening right now. The question then in this book is is it really a problem if it’s a problem that’s what you deal with. It isn’t a problem now. You have choices that itself puts us in a different frame of mind that actually the hopelessness may not be so hopeless. Yeah is it really hopeless right and we actually did an episode not too long ago. How about the questions we ask ourselves and the quality of our questions are going to determine the quality of our outcomes and our perspectives? Ask yourself better questions it matters and yes ask you have not found it yet. You may not have found the perfect job yet. So don’t think you’re stuck where you are in the ear and a circumstance that can’t be changed and don’t ask people for for advice. Who Only give you platitudes? Oh that job is just around the corner. I find that to be incredibly frustrating. It’s patronizing instead had talked to the people who actually challenge you. Who ask you questions? Have you thought about this. Have you considered that and do everything you can to keep keep from saying. Oh Yeah I tried that but because you never know how it might change if you try it again. I tried that and maybe I did it wrong. That would be a much better response than Oh oh I tried that I. It doesn’t work or yes. I tried that before. And maybe there’s something I can do differently to make an adjustment to make an adjustment. Yeah never takes no. I know that you have choices. And those choices will suggest empowerment and when you feel empowered you will make better choices. Choose US decide. These are great words. Make sure that you’re doing everything you can to look at the choices that matter to you. Based on in this case cultural fed ahead but to find that define what that is determined the cultural fit is and then go look for. It’s not something that can be found always on the Internet and don’t think that a company that doesn’t you do what your past companies do are out of bounds. It could be very well that what you do is done in some fashion within the company that actually possesses the qualities that you are looking for look there first and talking about having some a habitual activities like exercise or walking. If you enjoy doing research you probably will really enjoy looking for those companies that fit your values that create that cultural fit. If you’re like like me where research is not necessarily my strongest suit. I have learned to enjoy that because now I get to find out about people because I’m not a process driven guy when I you can find out more about the people side of business. I actually am looking at this from a lens that excites me. That gives me energy so right there. It’s a different different point of view. A different mindset speaking of people and process. That’s why we created the Anatomy of networking conversation for those of you listening to this episode sewed. And you’re wondering what is this whole networking thing for jobs all about. We have a free resource for you. Available on our website. JOBSEEKER’S RADIO DOT COM forward forward slash zero six eight. You’ll get all the show notes in resources from that Web page. Can you believe that that is really quite the bargain. And it’s free free. I love love free. No charge all right. Well thanks everybody for joining us for this episode of Job Seekers Radio We want to acknowledge investment of time. And your attention. We we really really are grateful for it head on over to itunes if you’re on. IOS device the IPHONE and subscribe to get future episodes. While you’re there just give us a quick rate and review. We appreciate the feedback. We want to spread the message of what we’re trying to do here on job seekers radio and would appreciate your efforts in in making that a reality absolutely and if you have questions that’s a good spot for questions as to as well we enjoy doing those question answer episodes and there will be more of those in the future while I’m Andrew and I’m Scott got it in the words of Ralph Waldo Emerson. What lies behind you and what lies in front of you pales in comparison to what lies inside exciting? You make it happen everybody lakes.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Finding the way from a networking conversation to an actual job can be anything but a straight line. Knowing how to guide conversations depends on your expectations.

Andrew and Scott share ideas that will up-level your networking success.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• The outcomes you should expect from a networking conversation.
• Mindset for network conversations.

Resources (including affiliate links)

StrengthsFinder 2.0StrengthsQuestWhat Color is Your Parachute 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:02 – 00:05:14

job seekers radio. I’m Andrew and I’m Scott. This production is meant to provide meaningful support to fight great careers faster whether oh you are working or not. Today’s episode is brought to you by the anatomy of the networking conversation is an e book a free resource. We’ve put together for you so downloaded at job. Seekers radio DOT COM in today’s show. We’re talking about. How do I know that networking will actually lead to a job? You don’t think about it there. There are different ways of getting a job no matter who you are. What kind of job you’re looking for? There’s always a mix. The point we like to make is that networking is more likely to help you than not a majority of people at least in our observation get jobs through networking. If if we’re thinking and I’m GonNa make up the numbers here if we’re thinking maybe eighty percent get their jobs through networking and twenty percent. Don’t well it’s possible. Then you may be in the twenty percent. Who hasn’t yet that doesn’t mean? Networking is not a valuable experience for you. That can actually help. Support your job search in some fashion so we want to talk today about the different things that could help you in networking that will actually help your job seeking speaking. If you’re coming to this podcast. It’s likely because you realize that Scott Ni- consistently evangelized networking what we’re not saying is that applications. I don’t exist or don’t work or don’t matter what we recognize. That many people come to this podcast because they want to hear the networking side of the story to know okay it. How does this actually work? And how do I know it’s working. That’s really the foundation of our podcast is to talk about those things. Li probably still have to do applications nations. Even if you’re doing the networking yes. They’re still a process involved to be hired. And just because you’re networking doesn’t mean that that process goes away You’re briefly it’d be lengthened. You don’t control the Baraza exactly. We had a conversation with someone recently. WHO had said? But I’ve never gotten a job through networking before and and while I have no reason to think that’s incorrect. That doesn’t have to be completely true. To the extent that networking will help you. Who at every step of the process? Even when you got an interviews simply through a blind application the networking the discussions with other people about job seeking about what’s going on in your industry. Whatever all of these things will help you in your job search regardless us of how you landed the interview Mike Question for that individual? How does he really know that the networking didn’t help them get at Jane? How does he know that somebody he knows wasn’t a mutual connection? Sure and somebody called that person and gave him an endorsement or especially in the now. We’ve got linked. I can pull somebody up on Lincoln and see who my mutual connections are assuming there are some and then I will have already talked to that person. Listen hate you know so. And so well right there that’s part of networking so something is working there and to your point. I think there’s value do in questioning not so much whether or not it’s working for me but em I open do i. Are My eyes open to how networking is affecting me Because sometimes we think that our own processes are adequate. There’s a statistic that we often in it’s true across the board regardless of WHO’s actually doing doing the research it somewhere between seventy and eighty five percent of jobs are filled through networking recognize that. Hey you know there’s certain professions wins. They’re probably a little more amenable to networking than others. Yes as well as positionally. The the higher the positions the more networking actually really benefits And so that may be another perspective that may be. The individual has worked his way up into leadership positions within a single company company and so the the visibility to that kind of networking has been different. I think about my brother I have an older brother who has received offers. are at least requests to apply through networking just because of the nature of his work and he’s very visible within his expertise and so oh that happens for him sort of by chance but is it really by chance. And that’s kind of the point that I make with others that this is a process that really goes beyond beyond just our job seeking that comes back to your statement about keeping your eyes open and your ears open because you may be so focused on the applications that you don’t recognize that there’s people around you that are actually working on your behalf. You just don’t see it too exactly so that’s great observation. One thing we always encouraged people to do is be realistic about the conversations that you’re having and what you want that to lead to may not be where that conversation goes sure and and one specific example I can think of is a gentleman.

00:05:14 – 00:10:01

I met this week. I didn’t have any expectation of where that would go and we had a a good conversation. We’re going back and forth and you know he goes. What can I do for you? I love that question because it’s something like even though I called the meeting. He was really good and open about saying. How can I help you? And that’s when I had an opportunity then to know that I was in rapport because I felt comfortable. He feel comfortable and I just laid it out on the line what I was looking for but that was not my expectation when it happens be prepared that somebody is going to go to that place already well and I also so think about that. Even if I have a specific desire for a networking conversation I want to get something specific out of it and that may just be finding finding a name or two for people that I should be talking to be on one of the things that I do. Feel strongly about is not pushing that agenda allowing the networking conversation to go where it will organically because you never know what you might uncover that way. I think that in terms of the glass art that they do as a hobby. Some of my best work has actually started with a mistake. And so if if you take that point of view that a networking conversation may lead me down on a path I hadn’t planned on. It might actually be better than if I’d gotten what I planned on. Be Realistic about the outcome. Outcome could just be a great conversation could pay. And that’s it. The outcome could be an introduction to another person. The next step might be just an endorsement. Right just somebody saying Hey Endorse you for these skills. Or I’m gonNA write you a recommendation on Lincoln or whatever but it doesn’t always go directly to a job offer so going into a networking interaction and expecting that to go right to a job offer or an invite for interview even though that could be an outcome and here we get into whether or not. That’s realistic frankly. I don’t think it is I. I come back to the idea that and I know I’ve mentioned this before in prior podcast that trust that is developed over time in other words more than one conversation. That’s that’s generally when people will either come up with the idea or feel comfortable saying I would like to give you or or give you the information about this opportunity. Opportunity and trust is going to be built based on how many times you have shown up coming back to the thought of going to the gym when you go early in the morning the way I do people. People don’t generally talk early in the morning. They’re all waking up there in the gym because they want to actually get the benefits of the gym more than the social aspect. That’s not always true but most of the time and people don’t start saying good morning to you until they’ve seen you there over and over again and you have in a certain way. Become come a part of their regular life if only just being seen but they’re much more likely to open up when they’ve seen you more than once if you’re just having the conversation listen to to get to know people better and maybe to talk about whatever it is in your industry or your your specific line of work. Whatever that is you’re having having these conversations the deeper concepts come up after? They’ve made those connections several times in those conversations. It’s likely you’ll have an the opportunity to at minimum plant. Some kind of a see that could be harvested later one of the things. I encourage all of my coaching clients to do is always have a branding statement or a way to present yourself. That people can remember and often. We rely too heavily on our job title. which doesn’t always communicate value? We actually actually encourage you to put something better together that is over and above what you would call title at company. His always gonNA translate. Well I can’t say enough about the idea of personal branding. That will look different for everyone. And I think that’s actually the advantage. The ideas it’s more than just your job title. It’s more than just the work you’ve done in the past. It really should be speaking to your potential and the direction you want to move not uncommon. That you’ll also walk into these networking situations and people. I don’t know how to handle it. They don’t they don’t do networking either or they don’t fight. I had several conversations with clients this week because we set them up for success. Success by giving them best practice and a checklist and things to follow so that they get consistent results in their networking when they run across. Somebody who doesn’t doesn’t live to that same standard. They get a little irritated. Well that it also will put you off your own process because hey I’ve got a step-by-step here how come you’re not following can’t and you can throw yourself off that way so being resilient in those moments can be really a benefit and that’s not to say that we shouldn’t be following processes processes actually.

00:10:01 – 00:15:04

There’s always a process. It may look a little different for the various companies. You’re going for if you’re applying assuming you’re applying to more than one company. They’ll have if some differences in the process being aware of what the processes are finding out more about. It will actually benefit you. And we’ve talked about this a lot in the anatomy of networking working conversation. But it’s always good to let people know why you’re there in that conversation like yes. I’m looking for work but I don’t expect you to find me Ajab. Yes I’m working on a project. This is what it looks like. I’m just seeking advice right. Having a purpose for that meeting will actually allow that person to carry those seeds for you effectively as we talk about have a project you’re working on. We highly recommended something that relates to the work that you want to continue doing doing or the work you want to start doing because again. We’re talking about planting seeds for your potential for the future that you are envisioning and the better. You can speak week to that with a personal branding statement as well as talking about the projects. You’re working on. It gives people a more holistic view of what you might be doing doing or might be able to do and they will think of that in the future. I think about a Gal who still to this day will contact me saying hey I found a job. Would you be interested even even though we haven’t talked about my job seeking in quite a while she’s still thinks of me that way because you had planted that seed exactly so many years ago go still bearing fruit exact day and and she’s a delightful person. We’ve we actually have gone back and forth on this. When I see jobs that she would be the interested in? She’s actually not looking for fulltime work. She wants pertain temporary. So when those positions come up and specifically in the Financial World Yuck I think of her first I. Let’s not overlook the level of relationship. You have with this person. Meaning the Kremlin. Crammer against the apex of networking would be eh networking with hiring managers. Now working at that level is different. Than if you’re add a frontline level. The objective might be different so if I’m networking with hiring managers is a higher probability. That’s GonNa lead to something like an interview or an application or a job creation process. If I’m networking with somebody frontline or here here. They may not be in the position to hire but they certainly can put their thumb on the scale and say you should look at this person. Yes so the outcome from that conversation isn’t job. Its thumb on scale and the strength of that relationship and we talked about trust is going to be really important. The networking allows allows you over time to build that trust so that when they do put their thumb on the scale at matter. You actually bring up another point under that I think is also worthy of some discussion. And that is do I go to the networking events only with higher level positions attending or. Do I attend things whether it’s a job seekers group group of some kind or any of the other job fairs where most of the people that I’d be talking to our entry level. You’re actually touching on that. I think both are important but for different reasons. I don’t recommend that anyone pick only those events where the hiring managers are networking amongst themselves. I think thank you need to balance both out because to your point there have been times in my career where maybe I wasn’t the person that they they would choose and that it might have been. Maybe that wasn’t a company I wanted but I could still give them a referral to others that I knew who could do similar work. The fact that I’m networking with with the frontline employees actually benefited them as well. What we’re at advocating here is? Yes you can go to group events and there’s value to that I’m more talking about the one on one one conversation with people that I know people I’ve been introduced to or an individual. I reached out to directly on Lincoln and we get into a conversation. And and where does it go from there so not that there isn’t value. I look at events more like a top of funnel activity where you’re taking the group event to an individual level exactly in and then filtering filtering people and you’re on that page. Yeah it’s it’s more about the conversations you’re having don’t look at the source of those conversations as specifically an issue try try to get a balance of the different kinds of positions of the people that you’re you’re working for because both of them can help if you do enough of these network meetings what you’ll find and is that there is some consistency to them and you’ll get into a rhythm and then you’ll be more aware when the conversation actually changes inches and there’s a shift in that conversation from cordial you know back and forth banter two. Oh do you have skills doing this or something like that. They start asking you what I would perceive or at least qualify as interview questions from a sales perspective. Those buying cues in other words that someone is asking you questions that actually have some depth to them because they’re interested in knowing more.

00:15:04 – 00:20:02

There’s there’s an agenda growing there. It may never actually grow into a full agenda that I am going to help you get your next job. There’s interest there that we we want to respond to so as that conversations starts to change and and those interview questions are coming. I generally try to ask very similar questions for two reasons. First of all I can get more information about that person about that person’s percents company and all that also you’re showing curiosity and the other person that is another step of building. Trust the more information you gather the more you know what they’re looking for in even if they are up here they may know of an opportunity coming or a need in the organization that they helped craft that job statement. They just haven’t posted it yet. So there’s always a reason that the conversation shifts to that interview question just be aware of it be aware of it and take note of of it. If you’re like me I forget very quickly I forget the little things the details very very quickly. I- that’s been true of me for as long as I can remember it’s always encouraging urging to read the stories that say oh that means you’re particularly intelligent setting that telling yourself out. No I read. This is in an article that I read not too long ago and so of course I grabbed onto it really point to right. No my point is that because I forget things quickly I have to write them down as assumes I can if you’re like me make time to write down your notes obviously you’re not going to be taking notes in every conversation you have before you forget them. Write them down because if you go back to that person sometime later and follow up with questions about what you talked about. That sends a very very powerful message to that person that you thought enough of them that you remember what they were saying and if you WANNA be remembered do that it also reminds me Scott of the conversation you had where you applied for the job. It wasn’t a fit. Somebody else got it. They were better qualified. But you kept in touch and another job. Oh came open and then when you went to that interview. And truthfully I consider every networking interaction an interview. This happened to be an actual interview. But they were doing some a future. Yes in future cat writing during the interview it was for a position that was not yet budgeted budgeted for the following year. When I that kind of stuff happens all the time right so if I had not had the country I actually applied for a position? That was an administrative assistant position for which I was terribly. overqualified could do the work absolutely and I. I would love if if there are any employers listening to us right now. I would encourage you to stop. Judging whether or not someone there’s overqualified for a position with the fear that they’re going to move on or move up for Heaven’s sakes hire them so they can move up at your company. There is great value in bringing people in who are overqualified and I’m using air quotes over qualified for a position but setting that aside I had applied for this position and his response this to me was you are overqualified. Why would you want this position and my response was and I had done my homework about the company I want in your company and and I will do what it takes to get in your company and move up in there is value there? I would much rather hire someone who is going to feel good about my company and maybe even replace me to allow me to move up. There’s value in that in the interview. That’s a position creation discussion not uncommon. That you’ll come into an interaction with the hiring manager who hasn’t yet had anything posted and they start talking to you and they come to this realization. You have what I need to solve this problem. I didn’t realize I had the networking is really almost like a consultation. If you think about it I think that’s the best way to describe it. Yeah so if you start saying okay I have this set of skills that I do things things in this kind of way and I have this brand and I’d like to learn more about what you’re doing in this area they’re like wow. I never thought about having anything like that. The last full time position and I was hired into. That is exactly what happened as we think about this. And you realize you do have skills and knowledge and training and all these things things that could be helpful. If you’re talking about that in the sense of a brand you’re putting yourself out there in a different way from the person who is just trying to interview for a single position position you’re actually showing them all of the value or at least a bigger chunk of the value that you’re bringing to the table that allows them to sort of relax into into what could be for the future as they are creating that position. If you show one curiosity for the company itself also that that sense of adventure of going along that adventure with them. You’re going to go on the journey with them. Now they’re having a completely different perspective of you and your candidacy.

00:20:02 – 00:25:11

This is really effective. especially if you have a solid network within an industry so I was actually coaching a candidate here not too long ago ago. who had some subject matter expertise in a specific category? Let’s just call it. That and they reached out to their members of their network and he was really apprehensive about Out even networking. He didn’t WanNa do it but he did it anyway. And he reached out to this person that he had established credibility with and they said Oh. Well we’re opening a site. We haven’t decided minded on a location yet. And he went into full court. Press to have that site open here in Portland versus somewhere else. Because he had done this before with that that hiring manager who didn’t know he was on the market. Instead of spending his time interviewing for a job that was already posted he went through the process of creating establishing and building doing a business case with this hiring manager who hadn’t offered him anything by the way right. He did all this in advance and by the time they got it approved. Oh well who we gonNA hire to do. This is fantastic. And so they just bring him right fast tracked him right into the process. Here’s another idea that when you’re doing your networking not because you’re looking for job because you might have something to offer other people that you already know. That situation can come up. And it wouldn’t have had he not been doing that when now we’re getting that’s a really good case for we’re continuing your networking while you’re in your work while you’re entering job that was almost accidental right. But you’re in the right place at the right time right. And in this case he he knew how to solve a very specific problem that they were having and that was establishing a new site for a call center and he thought he pitched this area is the best area to put it. That’s fantastic. Yeah so what I took away from. That is if you can position yourself as a solution to a very specific problem that you enjoy solving then people will say that. Oh how I have that problem too and then the conversation is much easier when you start thinking about okay. What about the interview? What about an application? You know so then I go through the mechanics of a process process knowing that. I’m not the compliance candidate. If you know what I mean it also puts you in a different mind it. You’re much more confident going through that process because you’ve gotten there in a different from way talk about self-confidence we talk all the time with people who’ve been out of work for a while and self confidence is the first casualty in long-term unemployment and long-term is in quotes as well because it’s different for everybody that is going to completely change how things go during the process part. It could also be that just by you doing that conversation. You just happen to be in the right place at the right time exactly where someone has had a situation. Let’s just call it. The situation in that could be somebody quit something more. They retired retired got fired promoted transferred medical leave whatever that looks like and they need someone stab like like yesterday but you showed up today. ’cause it just happened today. Yeah if you don’t show up that won’t happen for you right. You gotta show up you gotTa be in out there networking networking and showing up so that they will think of you. You’ll be in the right place at the right time. But if you don’t leave your home and your only putting out online applications it won’t happen for you. So this is how we know networking is actually working is if you do enough of it you’re actually going to be in the right place at the right time or one of these things happens. You’re immediately kind of fast. Tracked into the process agree. Because I’m now having a interview conversation screening interview with a hiring person and I think about out experience that I’ve had where I was talking with a colleague about the topic at hand in training. I was conducting styles preference training where we were discussing. How you can read other people’s styles and all this and the manager of this group offhandedly commented Oh you should apply for this open position in her division and It’s like oh well you know I don’t have any experience in your division and I just sort of laughed it out but she followed up with me later to say no. You really need to apply for this position position. That was a really interesting conversation. Any of wasn’t even talking about my interest in moving into a different position. It was only because we were having thing one on one interaction. If you’re out there and having these conversations you’re much more likely to run into those opportunities because you happen to be there. Granted there are some people who are just more introverted. nisus going to be a much greater effort for them. I acknowledge that but I would also challenge you. If you’re one of those don’t let it keep you from getting out there networking figure out a way where that’s bring somebody with you as a support mechanism or whatever you gotta be out there. I’m an introvert. So Oh I I have to work at doing this stuff. It’s exhausting for me so if you WANNA tear the in recovering introvert reach out to beef. Save our emails and contact. Information are all over the odd cast. But but I’d like to ask you a question about that situation. You just described. How would you rate or at least evaluate the strength? Your your relationship with that person that recommended you contact a second contact or It was probably the third contact.

00:25:11 – 00:30:11

I actually know this individual through other training opportunities or we were acquainted but we weren’t close. It’s not like we had a daily conversation or work the the project but that was the start to finish got involved in working with her because of the training that I was providing but then she asked me to accompany her to some of her locations that she supervised to discuss how we keep that training that we had gone through a live with her direct reports and it was in one of those conversations those times we would go out in the field and and visit her locations that this conversation really began not only had. We established established a working relationship before that relationship got much deeper and much more trusting because of that conversation that happened and then when she became something of an internal advocate for me with her boss she put me in touch with her boss to explore the possibilities. It changed the way I approached the conversations because she was asking me to. I was far more confident in the conversation. Then if I had been feeling desperate about it so again what we talked to people who have been unemployed for a long period. We talked to them about their feelings of desperation. If networking builds your confidence why wouldn’t hugh oh I would. Yeah I do actually one of the only reasons I do it as an introvert is so that I know because I know it works and then when I do I feel better afterwards even though it takes a lot of energy right because now I feel like I have traction. I’ve had a conversation with a person and I feel human coming back back to the initial question of have you know the networking leads to a job. I guess my first idea here is have those realistic expectations of what networking working is doing. In this moment if I go into a networking conversation thinking that I’m I want my next interview to come from this conversation. I’m probably probably overshooting it. I don’t think that’s a realistic expectation. Instead if I go into that network can conversation to learn something about the other person or to learn something about a new perspective on the kind of work that I do. That’s going to be far more valuable because it’s more attainable. And when I attain that I’m going to feel oh good about it if I instead I walk into a networking conversation thinking I want my next interview to come from this and I don’t get it then. I’m going to start reinforcing the idea. Yeah that doesn’t work when in fact. I haven’t been realistic in the first place. Not An uncommon. Also kind of a corollary to this right place right time. Kind of thing is that you’ll get getting a great conversation to have a good back and forth with somebody and they’ll say I don’t do that but they do and that’s an opportunity for you to get referred into another portion portioned that organization because that’s who they work with and that’s who they would do that right and that’s a logical reason to actually be doing that at working as you run into people or you know. Maybe you compile lists of people I even think about this. That they’re just really strong refers though I have no problem referring to people so you have to get to know them before they’re going to think of you in those terms so you. You got to keep showing up in my mind when I go to networking interaction. I assume it’s an an interview because everything I’m doing is recognized and observed by the other person the other advantage of that assuming you do get an interview you’re going to be showing up the same person in the HR world. I I hear it all the time. It oh well. That person interviewed well as if they were a different person during the interview them. During the other conversations networking actually helps to present. You as you are so if you are approaching this as an interview I would say be authentic. Don’t think Oh this is so I’m going to be different from the minority will be you you be. You don’t don’t try and change your personality or or are your your motivations. Just be authentic but as you get in there you’re treating this like an interview. You’re being very comfortable and very authentic. Then when you you do progress to the interview you haven’t changed your showing them a consistent idea and they will continue to trust you and don’t get out over your skis as people say often. Yeah I get into these conversations and it’s like Oh this isn’t this isn’t good. This is not going anywhere and then it ends up going somewhere. Don’t evaluate or analyze or judge that conversation until after it’s over two great advice is oh come in with your mind right and focused on the conversation then contributing and planting the seeds and and then when you’re gone from that place then evaluate shower went. That’s also going to help you keep from looking like you have specific agenda for that conversation if it’s networking when you’re saying you’re curious about the person and yet you’re judging and as you go you’re actually setting yourself up for failure we’re trying to keep our mindset straight that if I come come into the mindset.

00:30:11 – 00:32:16

Hey I want job. This guy’s going to give me a job job job job. GotTa have my resume ready. While I can’t completely discount about that idea in certain specific situations that may be effective but in my work and my networking that generally puts people off more than it gets the job. So I really do. Think that if you go into a networking opportunity whether it’s in one on one conversation event or anything else go in with the idea that you’re going to have an enjoyable time you’re going to be open to the possibilities that show up for you in that moment. You’re not judging it as you go but you want to plant those seeds. You WanNa do the things that help people understand who you are and what you offer. You’re probably going to have a better time and as you evaluate it afterwards you will see the progress aggress over time. That’s how we answer the question. Do I know that job seeking will lead to a job. You’ll see how it ties together. which have to pay attention? That’s why we have created a free resource for you so that you can optimize your networking conversations for optimal value. What would that be? It’s called the anatomy the of networking conversation. Wow where can I find that. That’s on job. Seekers radio DOT COM along with the show notes at job seekers radio DOT COM forward slash zero six seven. We want to thank you for this time with us today. we we know it’s an investment of time and this episode has gone a little longer and we. We really appreciate the fact that you’re here with us and that you’re you’re on this journey with us we want to encourage you. If you haven’t already done so to go over to itunes and subscribed to get future episodes. You can also listen to some of our past episodes bench. Listen absolute download the mall. We like binging. It’s not that way though. Scott Wilson Oh this is Andrew and I’m Scott in the words of t s Eliot. What we call the beginning is often the end and end to make an end is to make beginning? The end is where we start from. Love that all right. Thanks everybody by.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

What happens when you can’t seem to get unstuck? Seek advice and information from trusted sources.

Andrew and Scott answer your toughest questions.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• How to start a career with a worthless law degree.
• Overcoming 2500 applications and no interviews after 6 years of looking.
• Keeping an open mind when it doesn’t feel natural or normal.
• Having an outlet for pressure and coping mechanisms during challenging times.
• Transitioning from owning a business to working for a company.
• Best practices in preparing for IT interviews.
• Value of networking to prepare for interviews.
•   

Resources (including affiliate links)

064 How Do I Know What Job To Apply For063 The Number One Secret To Job Satisfaction 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View TranscriptTo Follow
Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

The jobs reports don’t always tell the whole story. There are a  myriad of situations that individuals have endured that are not reflected in the data reporting.

Scott and Andrew have your covered! Talking about situations when you have been looking for awhile and just unable to secure the right full-time job.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• The data tell a story.
• What to do about your individual situation.
• Getting out of the situation you are in.
• The value of self-care.
• Different types of work arrangements.
• Mindset required to succeed.

Resources (including affiliate links)

The number of people who have given up an active job search in September 2019 was 6.9 percent, some 11 million people.

60% U.S. workers are in mediocre or bad jobs or multitude of temporary and part time jobs. 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:01 – 00:05:07

local job seekers radio. I’m Andrew and I’m Scott. This podcast is meant to provide you meaningful support to find great careers faster. stor whether you are working or not by the way. Today’s episode is brought to you by the Anatomy of networking conversation. Isn’t he book book that we put together for you. It’s free so you can download that on job seekers radio DOT COM in today’s show we talk about a recent article that was published in The New York Times. We will actually put a link to the article in the show notes just as a cliff notes version of this article. It was talking about people. That still can’t find jobs in today’s marketplace so really. We’re we’re covering topic cold. What do I do when I just can’t find fulltime work and I want to start out by saying that? I’ve been in those shoes back. During the great recession I spent three years ears looking for full time work and was not successful until three years later finally landing a job given that I have personal experience experience with it. I have a very different idea of what that looks like from those who have been working all their lives. Yes it makes me more empathetic it. It makes me more sympathetic for those who are currently in a similar situation. Also just this past week I had a chance to talk to a woman who is now in the same situation at three years still unable to find full time employment the fact that this article came out in the New York Times. This week really hits home. What’s different is that? We’re now in a period. where unemployment is remarkably low? Although I will say it’s still just as warped warped a number as when the great recession was happening while during my three years of unemployment because there are so many people who don’t get counted in the unemployment numbers. We’ll talk or we’ll hear talk a lot about how we’re at. Historically low percentages that doesn’t address the fact that there are people out there who still are dealing with long-term unemployment. Let’s also recognize when I see a headline like that is designed to get clicks and sell advertising and Sell Newspapers K.. On both sides right. So here’s the bad. Here’s the lowest employment in forever or people. People still can’t find work it. We’re going to these two extremes in order to get people to read articles that’s the first thing but there is some data that was included in this article that I thought was worthy the of being shared the rate of people who are unable and just gave up on their active job search in September twenty nineteen was six point nine percent that amounts was to about eleven million working individuals in the United States willing and able to work eleven. Million people is a big number. That isn’t being counted in my point and that means that this is real the fact that people can’t find work Israel but we’re here to offer you actionable items actionable things things in this podcast to push through that barrier. Because you have to. I think about the this idea that people stop looking well yes to greater or lesser degrees. Raise some people stop looking the way they normally do or the way their unemployment benefits required while they were receiving them after a few months. Serve serve however long. Your state gives you just because you’re not looking in the way they require doesn’t mean you’ve actually stopped looking i. I won’t discount the fact that yes some people will stop looking. They can afford it or they have a support network that allows them to but even they come back into the job seeking numbers. Those numbers don’t get counted. Well you never know who’s in and who’s not counted and who isn’t and how do they get these numbers. And how do they relate. It’s is really what I know. I don’t really know well. I’m curious because having been through it when they stopped counting me. Was it just because I I have. My unemployment benefits ran out. My understanding is that’s usually when people stopped getting counted is when there unemployment runs out. That doesn’t mean that they have stopped looking at means Sir there. They’ve just stopped counting the next step from there. Who are these people? And so that’s part of it so there’s really two categories that people see people that are just making it cobbling together trying trying to keep their mind right and doing whatever it takes to put in together then the other side of the equation is okay. Yes these people gave up looking. But they didn’t have to look and there’s everybody nobody in between sure of their financially. Okay they maybe have some assets or spouse that’s working or whatever else not that they weren’t motivated but they weren’t forced yes yes to find some. They’re not in the same situation another number. That doesn’t get counted as all the people that are in jobs they hate and are still looking. Yes or they’re working part time when they need full-time employment or they’re working for less pay than they actually need at fulltime and so they’re looking for a second job to make ends meet.

00:05:07 – 00:10:09

All of these things come into play. That was is actually a number. They shared in the article. That came from Gallup which is doing all kinds of surveys in research on this kind of thing and they came up with a number that sixty percent right now sixty percent of. US workers feel they’re in mediocre or bad jobs or a multitude of temporary part-time arrangements. So you think about those who have been in out of the workforce for a long time or for whatever reason. They can’t get the full time work that they want. They’re not just competing with others. who are out of work? They’re competing with with those who are in bad jobs. It keeps that funnel for the recruiters really full. So how do you break through the noise so that you get noticed it is a perennial issue that we answer questions about all the time. And that’s why we talk a lot about networking as an effective search method. Believe we’ll get to that in a second. I can’t I just WANNA shout out there to those people that are kind of in a portfolio career where I feel like I’m in a portfolio career like I have some contract work. I’m doing with the company. You have my own business. Doing freelance work doing this. PODCAST that I guess could be considered a job even though it’s something we do as a Labor of love right and I’m in the same situation I have full-time employment but I also do work on side as a Gig to expand my reach because right now the fulltime job is only you know. I’m basically a one trick pony at work and and I love what I do. I WANNA keep doing it. But this the the side gigs. Allow me to expand my reach so these are ways that we can create a larger career for ourselves in a sort of portfolio. I think that’s a great term. And there’s pluses and minuses too. That the the plus is I have some flexibility to decide. The minuses flexibility means. I don’t have anything that’s consistent all the time. At least in my situation right I might have income spurts. BIRT’s not income streams exactly and for those of us who do have fulltime work. At least we got a base that we can rely on. Nobody knows how long that’s GonNa last. I it doesn’t matter the situation. There are no guarantees. I’m fortunate to have fulltime work. That allows me flexibility in my schedule. So that if I need to do a side Gig I can and I consider myself fortunate to be in that situation. Not Everybody in that. Do your best to find out if that’s a A possibility sure with your employer so the other part of the equation. Scott that when we read this this particular article people are still relying on traditional methods of research and and nothing wrong with that. Okay it is something I encourage people to do. It makes sense exactly. Let’s look at where we get the results in a a conversation I had with one of the placement professionals. Here in the Portland area. We were talking about some advice. I’ve been given by yet another consultant consultant. Who wanted me to change up my resume and to make it a functional resume which is fine having worked within the HR realm? For as as long as I have I also know that. Generally speaking functional resume is an indicator that I don’t have the right experience with those skills or in that job so it’s sort of a cautionary flag if not a red flag and I’m not sure I wanna do that so I asked this consultant. Her feeling on it and her response was used resume. That gets you interviews. I apply that to the job. Search do the kind of job search that gets you results. And if you’re doing a traditional job search where you’re you’re finding the jobs that you want to apply to end you send off the resume and you actually are getting responses and getting interviews. Keep doing that. But if you’re not getting those calls and not getting interviews from them you gotta find a different way about and each one of you need to make a decision on your Tolerance Level Chore Or. What is an acceptable acceptable number of interviews based on the applications? I’m doing how much time you have in between those interviews. I if again. You’re in the Lucky lucky group. That can just okay. I’ve got plenty of money sitting there. I can live on great That means you don’t need a lot of results right away for many of us we need to. Let’s see something a little faster. We WanNA see direct correlation between an application in an offer and that doesn’t always come no or even application to interview. We have to look at our conversion rates there right and each one of us is going to have something different. The idea is for doing job. Search online we were talking in a prior episode about this idea. Yeah that that a lot of these jobs search websites probably have people in them that came from casinos or in some ways making their platform a little more more attractive to you so you spend more time there because there’s no end to it. You search list of jobs and you think you’ve gotten to the end and then there’s another page right and then there’s another page and then there’s another pay and if you change one word on your search criteria suddenly you’re getting a whole different list or at least a half of it is different and so yes.

00:10:09 – 00:15:07

It’s it’s a process that never ends if you think about what it is that’s actually motivating you as you’re doing your search that’s also going to help you understand if I keep doing the same same thing over and over again the same traditional search or maybe the same nontraditional search but I keep doing it and I’m not getting results O. K.. Why why do I keep doing it? I’m going to make the assumption that those who keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results are not in fact insane. Even though that’s the definition of insanity there is a reason. What are they getting out of this? If it’s just the dopamine rush of saying Hey I did my ten applications today okay. That’s great glad. Let you feel good about it. Tell me where that’s leading you. Did you get the call for the interview. No I also think about what if all I’m doing is networking and I’m not sending out applications. How is that working for me now? I have a preconceived idea that networking is a better way to do it. That’s because that’s what works for me even when I’ve gone on jobs in the past just from an online application which has happened. Actually that has happened more often for me than for others. I now. But it doesn’t mean I stopped networking working networking is where I actually get that dopamine the fulfillment that the feelings of wow that was really good experience. I rarely get that feeling from an application occasion. But when I’m out there doing the networking and I’m talking with people and I have these really great conversations. I get something out of that so I want to do more of that and often often. That’s called oxytocin right. It’s positive addictive. The chemical chemical in your brain right that comes from actually interacting with people and feeling progress. That’s good inorganic well. And I’m a big believer in making connections especially as we hear about the traditional online search. Okay it’s funny that we use traditional traditional when that really has only been in the last twenty years you think about this this has become the norm and we here other professionals. At least I hear it all the time. I’m fairly certain you do too about how some people love. To blame the millennials. They are not the only ones doing this. All they do is use their technology. Everybody starts to pull in and they’re using their technology is just to give an idea of what that looks like. I’ve heard so many times people saying oh well you get on your commuter rail you know the the subway subway whatever your commuter mass transit is and you look at all the people and they’re all on their phones. Aren’t we terrible society because we are all on our phones and I saw online. This was a couple years ago. A picture of people on the New York Metro Line on the commute. They were not on cell phones because of course cell phones weren’t invented yet they were all reading the paper same process. So let’s stop blaming the tools and the technology and all this stuff. We’re going to do the same things things what has happened is we now have so much more information so much more entertainment so much more of everything available on that technology and they have these people working for them to keep you on their technology right. So there’s there’s a lot more going on with that. We have the ability to connect with people if we do so intentionally. And that’s the the advantage of networking not to mention the keeping up with the Joneses. Well we’re we’re people in the specifically in job search where two people have similar skill sets similar experience right. Everything seems to line up. What guy gets the job? One guy doesn’t or GAL al.. Take your one person right and the person that didn’t get the job feels what’s wrong with me or more. Oh my gosh. That person got that happened to me more or then once. I came in second so many times during my my long-term unemployment and I would say to people always the bridesmaid never the bride but seeing that happen online line just makes you feel worse Sir and especially if somebody you know exactly son of a gun actually good for you. Yup and I asked that personal case was the process like for you and that can go one of two ways either. They had the same experience that they just happened to win or they had much better experience. And now I’m feeling worse that happens to that brings up a lot in the category of self care not allowing knowing ourself to Kennedy Been Mild depression or at least going that way to a dark place. Psychologically you’ve heard me say it before a number of times it. It is okay to give yourself permission to rest. That is probably the one thing that kept me sane. During the three years of unemployment is when someone said you have permission to take time off from your job search because of course I had no money left. I was living with family. I I I was lucky enough to have family live with and I won’t get into that part of the conversation about the definition of a homeless.

00:15:07 – 00:20:01

The idea is I had a network and I had had the significant need to get work and yet the thing that kept me going was giving myself permission to just take arrest. I wouldn’t rest. It’s too long. I’m not talking about a whole week or a whole month of not looking but maybe the rest of today or never leaving the house kind of Oh outright often it was get out of the house because spending the whole time in the house trying to find work online get Outta the house. Go Up to Japanese gardens. Her go to the coast or go to the park. Do something that doesn’t cost me any money. It’s doing something that feeds you that you’re taking care of yourself and when I was reading this article it was really interesting thing that the people weren’t really clear on why they were doing what they’re doing and it’s so easy which actually perpetuates. I think that the depression released depressive thoughts. Lots is at blaming somebody else for your circumstance you know what I mean. Yeah well playing playing the victim my own experience. I was a victim I chose does not to use that term. There were some unfair practices going on at the organization where I was working and I lost my job albeit part of a larger layoff effort. The company can you that what they did was not ethical and in a couple of ways illegal. I didn’t allow that to give me an excuse for not putting my best foot forward. I was victimized but instead I tried to turn that around to. What can I learn from this so that I set up a better fit in my next job? And it wasn’t sent taking the onus off of me it was shifting it it was reframing it that okay I wasn’t treated fairly what can I do differently moving forward so I’m really looking looking at the future not at the past. What can I do today in this moment? That is going to set me on a different trajectory and I found that to be particularly helpful. That’s also what got me involved with the breakfast club and moderating that and I had a network of people that you included that helped me get onto a very a different journey that has helped me enormously. That’s why we talk about. Why am I doing what I’m doing and often you can look at? Let’s say applications. Why am I doing? Applications is that generated results. Why am I staying at home right? And getting down to that base reason that it’s not serving me and once I get to a point where I’ve identified something that’s not serving me. I need to make a decision to stop doing it. That’s hard okay. The decision itself may not be that difficult. It’s the acting on amid admitting your point is absolutely spot on if I figure out why I’m doing what I’m doing and it’s not serving me the next question. What am I going to do about it because if I choose not to do anything about it then? It’s nobody else’s fault that I’m not making progress now. It’s completely on me regardless of the fact that I was treated unfairly and lost the job right now now it’s on me now. You’re not empowered either. You haven’t empowered yourself okay. You’ve disempowered yourself when I realized I had permission to rest. That also gives me that same same permission to now get up and do something different and is it going to take effort yes. Am I going to get tired. Yes am I going to fail at some level on this. Yes and that’s okay because those who you’re learning experiences we don’t learn from our successes we learn from our failures are successes. Validate our choices uses. When we talk about self care we also have to recognize when were being what I would call absolutist like? I never do this or I always that or and we’re going knowing kind of to an extreme like networking never worked for me. Therefore I’m not GonNa do it anymore or applications right there right in front of me. They’re easy I’m going to keep keep doing those. Because they’re always there this fundamentalist mindset that it’s just the way it is than we can’t see something new. I often hear people say you know what I know. I need to try something in different. But I feel like I’ve tried everything I actually liked those conversations because you can pretty quickly figure out some things they have done yet and that’s just by asking them about what they’ve done. Okay what did you there. Have you considered that. Tell me about the avenues. Well what avenues do you think could be there. I also just read a brief e-learning on reverse first brainstorming and I okay what’s that will. The idea is instead of brainstorming for solutions you brainstorm on those things that would make your situation Asian worse seriously. Yeah in the context of job search. Okay what doesn’t work for you. What would happen if you keep doing that? What happens if you dig even deeper into to that and what it does is it starts to really identify the things that you are currently doing? That won’t be working for you all right now. I can list out all the things. That don’t work IRK now. I can start looking at things that I can stop doing. So if this is true that by staying at home and only applying to the jobs obsessed absolutely fit.

00:20:01 – 00:25:03

All of the things that I’ve been doing and I’m not getting any interviews for that if I keep doing that. Where’s that going to lead? Now I’ve explored the outcomes. The potential outcomes for the things that I’ve probably not doing very well. I can stop doing those because I now. I’m free to think about the things that might work. It’s a way to sort of wake yourself up. I’ve really enjoyed the little tutorial that I got one of the things that I found really helpful to me when I when I wanted to focus on self care was to really catalog the day to know that okay got up at this hour. I did this so that I could number one back my day and say okay. I did something today and that was helpful to me. It was kind of You know that I could demonstrate on paper that I actually did something. It also allowed me to look at what I did and say what actually worked does it really Mir the effective methods. Search that we know about. Did I actually leave the house so now I can see okay. Yes I may have tried everything but if I spent seven hours of my day online applications fifteen minutes in networking went for a walk for thirty minutes or whatever then I can. I can take a look at that and yes. I did something today but does that mirror the effect of search that right no from all the research we’ve seen between seventy and eighty five percents should be a networking but you bring up. Something that I think is important to at least acknowledge and that is is our own personal styles because as you started down that discussion on logging everything and tracking it and all that that is very analytical which is part if what drives your style preferences in for me that’s like Oh my God. I don’t WanNa do that. Because that’s not my style my styles to get out and talk to people and make those connections. I know Oh people that that would just blow their minds right. They don’t want to meet new people because they’re not comfortable whether they’re introverted or anything else. That’s just not their style. If I can acknowledge knowledge the fact that this is going to take effort for me to log all my contacts and to actually track how it’s doing to keep that spreadsheet if sure if that’s how you’re going to to log the activities that’s GonNa take me some effort. That effort actually has value. Maybe it’s not your style to get out of network and so you sort of resist. Resist that effort. If you make that effort you will have something accomplished whether or not it has a all the results. You’re looking for the first time you will have accomplished something you will hug grown and this is one of those things where yes. It’s not your style do it. Anyway I think it’s Meryl Streep among many people that talks about. She takes the roles that frightened her the things that take you out of your comfort zone. That’s where growth happens as you’re looking at the things that I just. I’m not sure I wanted to do it. Do something something different because you will feel like a more whole person by trying and the reason I brought up the catalog pieces because it’s helpful to identify if people pull. It tried everything that we know what they’ve tried in how much they’ve invested in that. Absolutely yes I am analytical but that’s how we diagnose sure so that we can provide a treatment demint as a coach. I have to know these things. If I don’t have anything to go on other than your word that you’ve tried everything. How am I gonNA know? What does that really mean? I’ve tried everything. Okay define everything thing. Yeah right you’re absolutely right even for those of us who don’t do the analysis in the sense of putting it one data point together one data point at a time. I still need to know. Oh these are things that if you don’t know how can I accept that you’ve done everything. We all have blind spots so if I’ve tried everything it’s everything I know I’m not try. Let’s try to uncover the things you don’t know to try. Have you put your resume on a roll of toilet paper right. You can print things on toilet paper. Have we’ve seen that. No you could actually print your resume until you the paper and put it in the business. You WanNa work. Do you think that would work job. That would certainly get attention. I think it’s hilarious. Thinking it was more of a commentary on the resume resume but it is. Hey Hey this is an idea. Maybe that’s your calling card. I’m not going to give you my business card. I’m going to they give you roll of toilet paper okay. That’s an idea. I had never thought of believe me. They’ll remember me. I do think that you should try new things. If only early to give yourself experience at doing things that you’re not necessarily going to choose on your own because when you think about it that also is a skill that is transferable in the job market if you are constantly doing things that take you out of your comfort zone that teach you new things that at least give you a new perspectives. That’s going to help you in an interview. Keep making making that effort. Don’t do only the things that you know how to do. Talk to people friends coaches your networking groups your associations and trade associations any group of people throw it out there that this is what you’re doing and let them help you come up with new ideas. It’s amazing what you can come up with in in these kinds of groups and for those of you that are still working.

00:25:04 – 00:28:03

I encourage you to do two things one. If you don’t need to find another job great good for you but make yourself tailable to those people who do so the way you pay it forward and give back to a community is by being available investing your time as you see appropriately and and the other side is never stopped looking. Never look always have your head on a swivel as they say in the military. You’re always looking for the next thing because there’s always unless you think there’s it’s nothing else that’s better which I don’t and you’re close to retirement. They’d if you Ford Alvarado that there’s nothing better. The thing is though I don’t think retirement is better. I don’t ever WANNA stop working. I never want to stop giving but I would love to get to a position where I don’t have stop working for the paycheck. I am working right now because I need an income I would love up to be able to work without need for an income because then that work would take on a slightly different nuance. Would I continue doing the kinds of things that I do now. Yes because is I love doing it in fact it. It’s I enjoy it so much. It has become part of how I I create my own identity with that sad. There are a lot of people who work because they I need the paycheck and they’re doing a job that just brings them the paycheck. It’s not necessarily something they’re passionate about. Here we get back into your point keep networking keep looking. Keep making making yourself available to a larger group of people that can talk to you about what you know to expand your mind on the things you don’t know to really be honing owning your interpersonal connections skills because that will always help you even on your current job that you love and you WanNa keep for the rest of your career. That’s why we’ve created the anatomy of a networking conversation e book. That’s a free download resource for you. The listener at job seekers radio DOT COM. You can get the show notes there at job. Seekers radio DOT COM forward slash zero six five without. We want to thank everybody for joining us for this episode of Job Seekers Radio Your investment of time and your attention is something we really appreciate. We value that we really value that. And while. You’re on itunes. I I would encourage you to subscribe to the future episodes a while. You’re there it would be really helpful for us to get rate in review it because we wanna make this a better product for you number one and number two. If you have questions you can. We can always respond to those right and get you a direct answer. In fact I I like to put out there we we we are requesting questions and comments because these are really helpful to other people who may be thinking the same things so please send those to us and if you have the question it’s a high probability somebody else has it until we are happy to answer we want to. I’m Scott and I’m Andrew in the words of Gandhi as human beings beings. Our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world that is the myth of the atomic age as in being able to remake ourselves. If you change yourself you will change the world by everybody by.

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