Show Notes

Do you want to help your network find jobs? Many of us do! Sometimes it’s hard to know exactly how you might be able to help your network that is productive.

Learn some strategies and tips on how to support job seekers from Andrew and Scott in this episode.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• What is coaching and how can I coach others.
• How to be available and supportive.
• What to do when people ask for your help to find work.
• When to ask questions and when to give advice.
• Side effects and benefits of supporting others.
• Building skills like understanding, empathy and helping others find their own way.
• Who and how to reach out proactively.
• Offering and doing mock interviews.
• Thoughts on reverse brainstorming or being the “devil’s advocate”.
• Facilitating networking connections.
• Don’t ask for a resume unless you have a job or capacity to 100% endorse for a job.
• Do for one what you wish you could do for many.
• Create template for responding to outreaches you may not be able to give full attention.

Resources (including affiliate links)

Networking Checklist

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:04 – 00:05:06

To John, singers radio I’m Scott. I’m Andrew this production is meant to provide meaningful support for you listener to find a great career faster whether you’re working or not. Today’s episode is brought to you by the anatomy of the networking conversation. It’s an e book and a free resource that we’ve created that you can download at seekers radio DOT com. Today’s episode were talking about how you as the listener can support others around you as a coach or a support mechanism to help them maybe in a time of need. Yes. We’re not talking about the kind of coaching that Andrew and I do where there’s a process that we help people get through that. We’re looking at outcomes and everything else coaching can actually be. Done in many different ways and and just just professional coaching. There’s the difference between the kind of coach that instructs and the other kind of coach that works with self-discovery, and we’re not going to go down that road. What we want to do is to set up the idea of making yourself available to help other people work through their stuff to be a resource. You think okay I’m not in a capacity I don’t have the capability. I’m not trained up or have the experience that Scott in Andrew have what value could I possibly have to those around me that are in need of employment that’s what we’re talking about as just as uncomfortable as it is for them to be looking for employment, it might be as equally uncomfortable for you to talk to them about it right for a number of reasons for whatever. There’s lots of reasons. especially if you are also looking for work, you don’t you’re not working at the time and somebody is asking you for advice. I worked to why. They right if I had all the answers. Well, that’s the thing. Often. We find the answers through helping other people and it’s something that I’m sure you’ve heard I’m sure we’ve even talked about it to some degree in prior podcasts the idea of making yourself available to to network with people to talk to other people you get as much if not more of the conversation than the one asking you we want to start by saying when someone asks you to coach them say yes. It doesn’t matter if you are the best coach in the world, what matters is that you are there for them. And it may not be that they’re asking you to be coached. They may just say, Hey, i. need help and that’s an admission on their side that they appreciate you. They honor potentially your contributions in your your advice, your perspective, it’s not them. Coming to you and demanding right something back. It’s them coming to you with open hand saying I need help. It could come in another form where people are reaching out to you thinking you might have a job. This is an opportunity to reset conversation and actually help them through potentially a networking process to execute best practices. But right now at a very basic level, all some people really need is someone to listen because they may not be getting responses on applications they may not be getting interviews, they may reach out to you from a position of. Nervousness and self doubt and perhaps even anxiety just be available I mean it’s not as difficult as we make it sound say, yes, there’s something that comes by asking questions and that’s I think the difference between a coach and a consultant right so when we’re coaching, we actually have a different hat on where were asking questions to get to space that you already want to go. So we’re not trying to lead you to a space you. You maybe don’t Wanna go or that’s mutually beneficial for both of us that would probably be closer. To sales and leading somebody to a destination that I want them to go would be manipulation of the highest degree. We don’t want that either. But what we’re talking about here in terms of your capacity to be available is just ask questions you know, what are you experiencing where you know you don’t have to make any statements you don’t have to offer them anything other than your ear to listen and ask questions that’s going to do a couple of things for the audience. By the way, it’s going to allow you to be seen. As somebody who cares which is always good. So that’s a reputation you get to take away. So you do get benefit not by telling or You know doing these other activities that aren’t gonNA lead to any kind of positive outcome for both of you. One of the things that comes to my mind as I think about being unemployed especially unemployed for any period of time is the idea of not being heard when were in the the the work place one of the things that I talked about internal communication and.

00:05:06 – 00:10:18

Internal Service is the idea of gossip and how every company you’re going to hear especially in HR. Oh, gossip is a bad thing. It’s destructive. It’s poison. It’s this that and all of that is true. It happens for a reason and it’s usually because someone feels that they’re not being heard will that is absolutely true when we’re in a job search, there is no one then there to hear us one of the things that that I learned in my coaching training was to start the conversation with what’s going on for you. It isn’t about giving them a gripe session or letting them complain. First of all, we judge Griping and complaining way too much mainly because generally people don’t understand how to help others get solutions but that’s a different conversation. The idea is let them be heard. By being that listening ear, you’re allowing the other person to feel heard to feel like you’re there to listen that you’re actually someone who cares. These are all really nice things to feel you’re helping them by getting it out getting it out of their head if you’re taking notes so much the better because then you can start looking at any patterns that may show up things that they’re not noticing and then. By. Asking more questions about what they understand about what they’ve just talked about they can start putting things together for themselves. You have to come up with the answers because they’re going to do all that for themselves and you just eliminated a dependent relationship. There’s been fit all around that not only are you building reputation and you’re adding value but this is a what what goes around comes around kind of thing. That if you help this person and then you’re in that same space six months a year two years from now then you have somebody you can lean into that. You demonstrated that you were that type of person and the there’s an opportunity there for you to open a door that that maybe it was closed before I would say as you’re asking these questions, my tendency for example, is to them because I. Connect. I. That is what I seek in any interaction is that connection and I have a habit when I hear them telling me their story I, then tell them my story that kind of mirroring is natural. Everyone does that to some degree now people like me we tend to to share easily other people tend not to share so easily and that’s okay. The idea of sharing needs to go back and forth. If you’re like me pay attention to what they are saying. Behind the words that they’re using because. So often, and this is the the although Stephen Covey gets the credit for it. It was said long before him will you listen to reply not to understand it happens in most of our conversations where someone will say something that triggers a thought on my hand I stopped listening except for that opening so that I can reply instead you can connect just as well. If you listen to what they’re talking about and ask another question asked a question that helps refine what they just said. To, get them one step farther or to be a little clearer whatever that may be. Get in the habit of asking a second question. That is going to help not only that person feel that you care. It’s going to help them actually get ahead in their own path and you’re now practicing a skill you can work for yourself and you’re not in a position where you just constantly adding advice I know I as a man I suppose you could say it that way. I’m always looking for ways to fix things to make things better right. So I’m always looking for the solution before I’ve had a chance to understand the problem. I don’t know that that’s necessarily dealing with sex I think most us at least in the United States we are taught as we grow up in business that we need to be solutions oriented. We need a solution what problem you’re trying to solve. I can’t tell you how many times in how many organizations I’ve been in whether as an employer consultant they asked me well, what problem are we trying solve? Why do you need a problem? What if you want to do something proactive? Well, we’re not accustomed to doing that it doesn’t have to be your solution that needs to be found here. Maybe you need. To Guide them through asking these questions so that they find their own solution, which is far more valuable because they’re actually going to be motivated to do it, and when they come to you the they know that you’re going to act in this way. Then you’re not in a position of hand to give advice after advice after, and now I become the reputation of guy that has all the answers and none of them were in the market none none of the good questions to help me, and then when you go to knock on that door six months a year from now, it’s not going to open.

00:10:19 – 00:15:03

So. That’s something to think about now and and I’m sure as you through and listen to some of our podcast episodes. You’re probably gonNA think of somebody that is going or is exhibiting some of these things that we’re talking about and what I’ve gotten in the habit of in this is taken, some practice is actually reaching out to that person right when. I think about them if I have time if I’m in the middle of something that’s different. I usually think of it as going to sleep at night or as I wake up at five in the morning. Yeah. Well, I mean not a good time to talk but that’s a good time to say what I really need to reach out to this person. Follow up not from a position of self interest but from a position of you know, are you okay are you getting through this search? All right. There’s gotta be somebody that you know that comes into your mind during the day or during our conversations on seekers radio that you should reach out to, and if it does you should yes. Yup I agree that in the habit of shooting people we talk. At. Don’t should yourself you should do this I. I completely agree don’t pass up the opportunities when somebody comes to mind and I’m not suggesting that there’s some mystical aspect of this worse He’s thinking of me on. It it’s just don’t lose that opportunity. Hey, you came to my mind today. How are you put yourself in that person’s position? Doesn’t it feel good when somebody calls you out of the blue and says, Hey, I was thinking about today how you doing right and then you can ask those questions what’s going on for you right now what are you learning through this time? Whatever it is that they’re telling you how does this apply to what patterns they’ve seen or where they go because you’re going to get as much or more out of that conversation as they do. To get in the habit at part of being an effective leader or somebody that’s in the marketplace looking for opportunity, you may be an Aja, but you don’t know that you need another one just yet. But as being proactive yourself by reaching out to these people offering support you really laying the groundwork so that if that does happen, you’re you’re prepared right another thing that I really like that you’ve just reminded me of is offering to those people that you know who are looking for work to do a mock interview just to practice their interviewing skills because as the interviewer you have to be aware of what those interviewing skills are, and you’re simply reinforcing your own interviewing skills by being the interviewer. Absolutely if anyone this is my advice if anyone asks you to help them through a mock interview, say, yes you both benefit and it’s something that super easy you don’t have to you don’t have to really. Reach out to anybody or coach anybody just hey, it’s an interview right something. You could even offer I suppose to do for that person. You know if you ever have an interview I’m open I’m open to helping you with that. So if you’re the type of person that’s really good at those interpersonal communications or or perhaps you’re in a domain where you’re doing a lot of interviewing yourself and so it’s second nature to you to see what’s good or what’s not that yeah that would be something. You could easily role play and provide an invaluable tool to help these folks be ready. Now, I don’t know outside of helping somebody meet their future spouse. Right that you actually introduced that person to their spouse. I. Don’t think there’s anything higher than that than helping somebody find a good job. and. So if you had even a little bit of contribution in that process, it feels good. Feels real good. Does doing something for others supporting other people in their moment of need helps you in yours it gets you out of your own head. It gets you out of your own cycles. Those those vicious circles that you can that your mind can get yourself in putting yourself out there and really. Starting, to think in new ways. Now, another thing we may have talked about this concept at a in a prior podcast, but I thought it applied here to is the idea of doing reverse brainstorming and where that came in in my own thinking was the idea of playing devil’s advocate. Okay. So you’re talking to somebody who is struggling with something and you’re going to play devil’s advocate my first thought was. Be Very careful because I’ve been the devil’s advocate in the past and all I did was shut the person down more because I kept asking questions that triggered their doubt.

00:15:03 – 00:20:12

So if you’re dealing with somebody who is in that situation where they’re just sort of spinning in their own, a process that I learned relatively recently over the couple of years was reverse brainstorming. It’s a hypothetical conversation so you’re already by. Setting it up as hypothetical you’re talking about what is not real? It lowers the stakes somebody can get out of their own head. Okay. We’re going to do something a little differently. What reverse brainstorming does is instead of going for what you want brainstorming the outcome you want you brainstorm the outcome you don’t want. So let’s say you’re looking for work. Well, what can you do to fail at getting a job? Let’s put out on a piece of paper, a whiteboard whatever you have available to you. Let’s look at all the things that you can do to prevent yourself from getting a job and you start writing all this stuff. Now take it to the next step. So somebody actually reaches out to you to do some networking. What can you do to make that fail and you’re right all those things down that’d be fun exercise wouldn’t it? You now have a list of all the things that you can avoid doing. That are going to take your chances do the things that are the opposite of all of those ideas or I could stay at home. Okay. Don’t stay home I could tell the person now. Don’t say no. Reverse brainstorming is a very simple and very successful way to start coming up with ideas that will lead you to success and you don’t have to play devil’s advocate to do. It could be that instead of calling it reverse brainstorming you just talk about a hypothetical third-party, right? Okay. My friend Jerry or my my my sister Sophia or something. And that way it’s not you and it’s not damage some other third party that’s doing that what what are they doing? What can they do to fail I? It’s like a an Avatar. Now, living vicariously through third party but I but I can see how it’d be super valuable getting somebody unstuck. You have somebody that comes to you. They’re stuck. This is a way to get them unstuck. The other side effect that happens is at some point you’re going to start laughing because the IDs get a little bit silly Dick. They’re still true they sound silly and so you’re you’re laughing about all these things that you are. You have to do to fail the the light that shines on what you can do get so much brighter I. IT’S A. Process that I’ve used a number of times. Now over the last couple of years, I find it to be helpful in some fashion every single time on top of that, you’re probably looking at the possibility. If you’re weld network that you could connect this person somebody else hotel in your network, it’s just making sure I. Think the challenge had there’s if this person is not displaying to you the best practices that are known for networking, you may be reluctant to do that. What that means is if it makes sense for you and you think it would be. A warm introduction to send this person to the next one on the list. So to speak, then do that and maybe even help them through that by educating them or providing suggestions on what they should talk about riotous third party another thing and I think of someone in particular that I talked to a while ago that they had that experience where this other person helps them get to the next step and the interview didn’t go well and so that other person didn’t want to recommend my acquaintance in the future the conversation. I WanNa have with that other. person is don’t say no, it may not have gone the way you you had hoped there is still room for a discussion of value there, and if not to help your friend to get employed by that company at least have a conversation about what the company is looking for, and that allows all parties to come away from it being in a little bit better situation rather than just letting it sit at oh, it didn’t go well. So I I like the idea of coming back and not necessarily doing a retrospective. What can we learn from this I? Think? That’s an important conversation to have. If you’RE GONNA go to the effort of recommending somebody for a job. Shouldn’t you then also perhaps take the next step and help them prep for the interview if your your corporate policy allows that then by all means? If they are as good as they say they are in you know them why not? Right? Why not offer to hey, do you need prepping for that interview? Yeah. Now they say no, and then they fail and they tank. Well, it’s another thing if you’re going to be on the committee, exactly one of the difficulties of of knowing someone in hr or the hiring manager in the first place a who if they cannot recuse themselves.

00:20:13 – 00:25:02

It could make a little awkward so that that’s a different conversation. The idea of making the introductions helping the person prepare following up with them. These are all ways that you can then help other people. which pays off in your own search and we do have. I do have a resource actually on my own website that’s a networking checklist. So it’s something that’s easy to transmit to other people so that show yeah. I’ll put that in the show notes. So if you’re interested in endowing copy of networking checklist. I’ll put that in the show notes as well as the. Request that you can get for the Anatomy of networking conversation and the discussion Scott that you and I have had until now is been what can we do to coach people in in a positive way? That’s helpful. I think it’s also valuable to determine at least call out what may not be helpful for for you to do so they can avoid. Yes. So that you can avoid doing these things and potentially pointing this person in a position that’s worse than when they came came to you excellent in the first one, I can think of is is asking somebody for a resume that you intend to do nothing with. Now. You’re not. You’re doing it intentionally are doing it to end the conversation because you don’t want to have it or it’s uncomfortable or you think this I just don’t know what to do here. I agree. and. That goes beyond the interviewing and networking and all and one thing I learned years ago as I got started in the HR and learning and development space never ask a question that you’re not prepared to do something with the answer. So by the same token, if you’re going to ask for a resume and you’re not going to do something with it, that is a big no, don’t do that. Ask for it do something with it or don’t ask for it. Yeah. I if they’re looking for a job and they come to you and you ask for a resume, what they’re thinking in their mind is you have a job for them or at least you’re going to pass it to the person who does and that you’re gonNA put your thumb on the scale or perhaps offer of recommendation or endorsement So just what they’re thinking, that’s what their mindset is. So when you’re taking that resume without that, then you need to be clear why you’re doing it and with that said, if you just say, well, send me your resume is there harm in in? Forwarding that to your hr department, this is something that I’ve run into with a number of people what what do I do with it since the jar it doesn’t need to be soliciting a specific job or soliciting an interview for a specific job. It doesn’t have to be anything other than, Hey, I know somebody who would be interested in work for the company here’s the resume. So at least you’re actually doing something with that resume you never know what may where that may lead I if you’re going to take that step to send it to hr please follow up with the person you took the resume from sure. Let them know you did that end. And with the next step might be because he here’s what happens. They’re still sitting there waiting for a phone call to get an interview. Okay. So if you’re just handing off the HR wiping your hands of it, not that that’s bad. No, I think there was that that’s the least you could do. That’s okay if there isn’t any anything else for you to other than to give that then you go ahead forward to take charge and then you tell your friend I forwarded to HR I don’t know if they’ll do anything because don’t know what positions they’re actually going to be posting know that someone received it, and if you happen to hear back from them, you can use my name doing something with it is more important. The other thing is telling them to look online at the jobs available unless you really have a job for them often I hear people that go and they meet with somebody at the. Company Oh, just go to the online portal and look at the jobs I having been in that situation in my career. I find that to be rather off putting I. Lose his certain amount of respect for the person says just go to my my website and look for the open jobs because that means they either don’t know why I’m talking to them. They don’t care enough to look in advance if this is an off the cuff conversation, they weren’t planning on talking to me any of that. That’s great. If someone comes to you and says, Hey, i. be interested in doing an informational interview because of where. You work at least take a few minutes to look at your own job postings just out of respect for the person who’s WHO’s coming to you look at is an opportunity to pay it forward.

00:25:02 – 00:30:02

Honestly. So this person comes to you and you say go look at the jobs online and then that’s it. Really if you’re GONNA do that why here’s what they’re thinking they’re thinking oh well, we’ll go there and this person’s going to advocate for me. They’re gonNA put me for a recommendation they have a job for me. Okay. So if they’re encouraging me to go to the website and look at the jobs They have one for me or they’re gonNA advocate for me. Here we go back to setting adequate expectations ultimately by coaching or supporting other people. What you’re trying to do is help them and by not doing things, you are not helping them we really want to encourage people don’t ignore the request says they come in if you cannot help someone tell them you’re not in a position to help as much as you might like to, at least they get resolution to their outright right but avoiding them or not responding to them is just plain rude and no response is still respond. So I would say avoid that. The upfront be gentle with them. If you cannot help, we recommend we’re both open network irs we we will network with just about anybody because we understand the value of networking I have no idea if this total stranger comes and asks me to network what the mutual benefit may be I may want to ask some questions. The idea is if you cannot be honest about it, it’s okay say yes. Whenever you can I know that there’s people listening To this podcast that are so busy and they get so many requests every day that they they just can’t possibly spend time with everybody. I. Get that and the philosophy that I’ve heard that I really like is due for one. What you wish you could do for many. So even though you’re not meeting everybody pick one person maybe a week that you feel like, okay this is my one person and not that you’re being charitable, you’re being realistic. And, you’re doing for them what you wish you could do for everybody something else that goes hand in hand with that is if you are getting the same request, say for instance, you work in HR and you’re always getting the request. Hey, can I. Talk to you for advice about how to interview whatever if those are coming in consistently have some kind of response that you can copy and Paste that you are then providing them resource that can help them. Maybe you send send them a link to to job seekers radio DOT COM that way you’re not ignoring them. You’re not being rude. You are saying I’m sorry. I’m not in a position to help you right now. This is where I would suggest you turn for that kind of help and that way they’re still getting an honest. Response from you. That is at some in some fashion helpful to them and I’m not saying that job seekers radio DOT COM is the answer to all of it, send them to someone or some organization that can help them. And I’ve also seen people do posts unlike lengthened what have you how to get hired at my company? So there’s a company that you work for like aws I shall somebody did that this is how you get hired at aws. Here’s the leadership principles and they just laid it all out right so that if you WANNA get a job with our company, here’s everything you need to get that done. So I think that was intentional in that it allowed him to hold everybody at arm’s length and he can just point them to the Arctic. That’s a brilliant idea. So there’s other ways to get around that. So all right while we WANNA thank you all for joining us today. Check out the link in the show notes for itunes. Subscribe. You’ll get future episodes. You’ll be able to keep up with what’s going on and most importantly, you can provide a rate and review we want to hear from you whether you felt this was helpful or give us the review and how it helped you. We love to hear from that about that. We also want to hear from you with your questions. We love trying to provide some answers to questions remembering that we’re not just giving advice we’re really trying to help. You discover what’s going to work for you send US those notes at I tunes, you can get the show notes in resources on whatever podcast player you have on your mobile device or should be a link down there. If you prefer to go to the website, you can do that as well. It’s job seekers radio DOT COM forward slash zero eight two and that’s typically for folks that are driving you know sometimes you you can’t just go to your phone and Click the link. So that’s where he had find all the resources we talked about, and the show notes with more details while I’m Andrew and I’m Scott and in the words of Andrew Iskender and I’m paraphrasing.

00:30:03 – 00:30:15

Kindness, is not doing something for someone else because they can’t. Kindness is doing something for someone because you can. Thanks everybody. Thanks fighting.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Is your job search not going the way you want? Feeling like your skills aren’t up to snuff? Scott and Andrew discuss ways to mitigate your self-doubt.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Remember this: You have value! and.. Everyone has doubts!
• Identify and manage your self-doubt.
• How to think about job postings when you don’t fit because you are either underqualified or over-qualified?
• Build resilience by taking productive breaks in your search.
• The danger of absolutism with your mindset and approach.
• Redefine your perspectives to see what’s positive about it.
• The Never Ending Job Search, how to think about whether will it ever end.
• Doing things for others can become a useful diversion.
• Nobody is hiring or Hiring Freeze doubts.
• Role of networking in reducing your doubt feelings.

Resources (including affiliate links)

Why You Can’t Get an Interview – Explained Using Job-Search Science Data

Andrew’s LinkedIn Profile – Free Coaching at 3:00 PM Pacific every Friday

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:01 – 00:05:02

Welcome to job. Seekers Radio I’m Andrew. This production is meant to provide you. Meaningful support is a listener to find a great career faster whether you’re working or not. Today’s episode is brought to you by the anatomy of a networking conversation e book. It’s a free resource. You can download at job. Seekers radio DOT COM in today’s show. We’re talking about overcoming self doubt in your job search what I’ve found in recent times, is it? There’s a lot of doubt in the marketplace. You have value. That’s what I’m going to start with. You have value. It’s just finding the place where you can use your that can use your value. Yes, and who will appreciate your value absolutely, so we’re going to talk today about some top doubts and some solutions some things that you can do to resolve some of those doubts or mitigate them or worthy. Get your right, and that’s that’s where I wanted to start. Love the idea you have value find the place that acknowledges that appreciates at the same time. Understand that everyone has self downed everyone. Again if you have no fear, no doubt then the you may be disordered. The idea of self doubt is so universal that overcoming. Self doubt really is the key. It is not eliminating you won’t. Recognizing learning to manage, it is a far greater more important skill, then trying to eliminate it because it’s not going to happen. It may be evidence of empathy and compassion. Actually that you’re downing doing something because it might impact somebody else that’s great could be. Necessarily if we’re talking your language right now and your job seeker listening to this session, or perhaps your energy job in your just unsure your next move, you might be dealing with things like you know. Do I meet these requirements of this role. Will the interviewers like me right will ever find a good job as good or bad as the last one I’ve had in, and can there be anything better. Maybe it’s I’m current with ’em. Current with the job market are my sills valued right? You’re questioning things then you’re in the right place I would agree. You’re in the right place. So the first one that we really think about here’s job requirements and many of the people that I coach will look online postings right. They’ll look at. Do An inventory as great analytical do. Because I work with a lot of analytical engineers that sorta chicken they they liked to deconstruct the job description and say do I fit? Do I not fit? AM? I? Interested? Am I not. Doubt right this. Look at that and say well. You Know I. Don’t mean one hundred percent of the requirements so I’m not gonNA apply for that I’ll tell you from an HR perspective job. Descriptions are wish in most cases now it’s true that some companies will create the job description based on the person doing the job, so it’s just listing out the things that this person is currently doing, and there’s a reason for that and I’m not knocking that when they are then looking for the replacement, they will look at all of the things that that person. And then they want the next step up. However wonderful that person may have been, they still want the next one to be even greater, and so they’re looking at this and and making everything sound Rosie remember that a job description is the wishlist with their posting it online. You were the one that came up with the study Do you remember where that there was a study done? Interestingly enough by a company that would make applications on behalf of candidates right so the? They would just do that automatically for them I don’t know if there was some back end system that did that or a bottle, or if it was actually people just typing these. These things in for you copy paste because all that is really to put your stuff in down in an ats applicant tracking system is data entry, so you’re highly qualified. If you’ve done at least what fifty applications for data entry job, right? The idea was the tract everything when they applied and when they got responses and they they actually mapped out that people who meet somewhere between fifty I think it was fifty eight to ninety percent requirements that that range is what got interviews and people below fifty percent, or somewhere in that area were just as likely not to get an interview somebody who is ninety to ninety five per one hundred percent. And you think about that. If if this is a wishlist, somebody has all those skills they may be over qualified for the position, and so that may not get the attention I think it’s important to remember that your skill set is unique to you. It does have value and finding the organization that values it will take some time effort.

00:05:02 – 00:10:00

It’s critically important to your happiness, and there’s if you’re of the opinion that it doesn’t matter if I’m happy as long as they’re happy. I will be. You, really need to be careful walking down that road. I’ve also heard that doubt that is in somebody’s mind. I’m over qualified for that role, and that’s kind of I. Think it different kind of out in that. If I apply for this thing, they’re not going to ask me in. Because I’m overqualified. That’s more of A. I. Don’t know if that’s EGO or Well, there’s there. You know it’s still the. Yeah there’s fear involved in probably because those of us who have been in that situation where we applied for job that was lower than the one we left. Yes, we’re over qualified for that job, but. The Way I actually landed lower position job was. By explaining why I was applying for it in the first place. That afforded me. I was in a time in my life when I didn’t want the responsibility of managing a large team, and for good reason, all I needed was to have the conversation with them as to why it’s a reasonable doubt that you would get as many interviews by being terribly overqualified, but that doesn’t mean you won’t get an interview. Networking going to help strengthen the ties to that. If you know somebody on the inside, who can let the the recruiter or hiring manager now? Hey, I know somebody who has overqualified this for this position, but it’s actually what he’s looking for. Networking is going to definitely benefit, and if you’re at one end of the spectrum, Hey, I, don’t have the skill to match that role so I’m not going to apply, but then the other end of that spectrum is I’m overqualified. GonNa apply anyway just so I can have an application, and then in both of those cases. You don’t get an interview right so you may be a perfect fit for one of those roles. That’s kind of in the middle. And you don’t get the interview or you don’t get any response. You get nothing ghosted. Call whatever you want our. Then it just kind of fans, the flames of doubt that you have the skills necessary to be successful in the marketplace now in pursuing things like education or certification or Gosh. I need to retool because you presume that because somebody has not answered your request on an Ats that you are somehow doubting your skills right and I, think that’s very dangerous and very expensive and very expensive yet normal dangerous expensive. I I completely agree with you. I. Think about those who? Disliked the free phrase. Give up because most people looking for work. Don’t give up I know I. said this in prior podcasts at times. It’s good to take a break. Define how much time you’re just not going to to look for while take a rest because you’re more prepared then after that rest to put the energy back into it, but it also gives you an opportunity to start thinking differently sort of in the mind of resilience. If you keep thinking the same thoughts and you keep getting the same results. That’s going to start feeding itself if you take that break and allow yourself to let go of the doubt. Two. But to just accept it for what it is, and then to think about what could happen, that would be good. Allow yourself to think on that for a while. You’re probably going to get back into that job. Search with a renewed sense of energy and drive and something just popped into my mind is we’re producing this right now? Is that Hey, my mind even wanders when people are talking. Start thinking about different things I hear a dog bark in the Vafa. It’s not in. It doesn’t doesn’t have anything to do with. You Scott has everything to do with this this this mind of mine that just kind of can wander. Everybody and something I’ve seen you. Do you probably down you? Write your ideas down. Yeah, I have to. Because, my my head is a scary place. And and my memories good, but it’s not perfect, yeah. I like about doing that if I’m taking notes of the idea that popped into my head, I can then. Pay More attention to the person who’s speaking and I let people know. Hey I’m going to be taking notes while we’re talking doubt doubt. I doubt I’m going to get an interview now. This often comes from people that we interact with it. Breakfast club that have been looking for a long time, right? They feel like they’re doing all the right things and many times they are and many times they are, but they’re just not getting an interview, and so they get to a point in their search where they feel like.

00:10:00 – 00:15:07

I’m never gonNA find anything. From that point of absolute anytime used never or always or any of these admirably right, it’s all absolute, and there is no absolute. Well I guess there are some. Like death and taxes and stuff like that, but no taxes are still in choice. You can go to jail. Lose your. Life. But. It’s still there. It’s still there, but I’m thinking about okay I doubt I’m ever going to get an interview, because my my never ending job search, and so I feel that there’s a point at which there some insecurity that enters the equation because of their doubt I’ve been there I know people who have been unemployed longer than I was. But I was unemployed for three years at one point during the recession, and that was a tough tough time. It messes with your head. Talk about self doubt and wondering if I’m even higher, -able absolutely goes through went through my mind, constantly two things that I did I talked to the people cared about me. Who are actually supporting the at the time because I was one of those where I had no money laughed, my family was helping me. There was also the idea of never give up. You just don’t give up. Keep moving forward and Dick warn guy here. In Portland, that I met at the time who was giving me a lives. We were having a networking coffee together, and he was the one that gave me the definition of progress of movement towards a worthy goal. And pointing out the fact that it doesn’t matter if it’s. Three miles three yards three millimeters. It is still progress towards the worthy goal. Don’t give up. And I finally got a job, and it was exactly the job I was looking for, and did it last forever. No nothing does, but that’s the other part of that lesson. Is this period that you’re in? How ever doubtful you may be about? Your prospects is the situation you’re in right. Now will change if you haven’t read Eckert Talas the power of now read it. It is only the situation you’re in. It does not define who you are, so it does not define. Your value does not define your ability to be hired. It is simply the situation you find yourself in now. Don’t give up. That is great. I would also recommend considering how you can use that as fuel because a lot of times you get into that situation. You don’t think there’s an end and there is a learning, but use your situation as fuel to do things that you maybe wouldn’t consider doing before like. I think that’s probably one of the things that drew you to breakfast, Club. Not that you’re looking at different job, search groups and untrue, you were I was going to as many as I can go. Job Is at here. You’re in a situation where you know. If you don’t continue doing something than you. You get what you get as my wife says you don’t throw a fit for. You, don’t you? Don’t put something in you. Don’t get anything out. That’s a great memory. I think about our frankly on who actually was the one that put me in touch with you to get involved with breakfast club. And it gave me an opportunity to get back into leading something because I had come out of the leadership role, it got me back into taking the steps of working with people and helping them and leading them through whatever processes. It totally changed my perspective, doing something for other people became. The reason for me to get up at that morning. It was your turns. Able Yeah. Oxygen, so that somebody to take away from this, even though you may have anxiety in doubt and fear, and an uncertain t that doing something for someone else will yield positive results for you I know we were going to mention. Sit Not being able to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Doing something for other people can be the light in the tunnel. You’re not looking at the end of the tunnel yet. You haven’t turned that corner, but it turns out the light. It can make a huge difference by just getting involved in something that is not. Job Related. It’s just getting up and doing something for other people. Yeah, the category, the never ending job search sometimes that doubt. that things just won’t get better I think some of us that have suffered a reduction in force. Understand that right, we understand the doubt that comes with that. I also know that you can retrain your mind to say that every time I’ve had that situation I’ve gotten something better and for me.

00:15:07 – 00:20:03

That’s true now better means different things in each one of those situations sure and it may, it may be something you want it. That’s better. It may be something you haven’t considered. That is better, but it’s better than you expected. I think that’s a perfect and one of the ways you overcome. Doubt is looking for that. You look for what was better out of that situation while I’m no longer at this company. I don’t have to deal with that a hole in in. In Finance or or whatever you know. Or the toxic right whatever that is, it’s like if you start looking seeking out these positive things in a bad situation. That’s when you Kinda. Doubt and you’re able to do things that you didn’t think were possible now. We also made out that anyone is hiring today. I hear this a lot that you know. We have the pandemic and all the unrest, and all these people laying off and is done employment in forever right when you start hearing the headlines you start thinking. Wow, is anyone hiring of the answer is yes. Everybody’s I always assume right. My mindset mindset is everybody’s hiring, so if I think that that I know there’s opportunity especially at companies I’d. I’d love to work for so much of what we talk about. Really is nothing more than a mind game. It’s dealing with what’s going on between your own ears. So if that’s what gets, you started the idea of everybody’s hiring. Do it tell yourself everybody’s hiring. The point is most of the time. It’s true even if they don’t have an open position that they’ve posted on indeed, there are many companies out there that can hire you if you get in front of them. The challenge is getting in front of them. But. It doesn’t mean that they’re not hiring and that’s always been. The challenge has got is getting in front of the right people the right company at the right time. Is always been the challenge. And if you are getting in front of the right people at the right company, and it’s the wrong time, the right time is coming. Don’t burn the bridge. Do stay in touch all the things that we’ve been telling you in other podcasts. Build that relationship because when that time comes up, they will think of you and if they don’t then. If you’re regularly keeping in touch with them, you will remind them what it does. Scott is an actually put you in a position of strength, because now I showed up early to an opportunity that not maybe not exist right now. in the reason that’s important is because the relationship has preceded the opportunities, and now you have things in the right order of operations. Meaning I’m not reaching out to somebody after something’s posted, and now I’m reacting, and what kind of reputation of I developed, and now it got the order of operations all wrong and the likelihood of me getting that opportunity has diminished I. think that’s absolutely right building the relationship. I is always going to help you. The other thing I hear. Is I doubt I doubt such and such company is hiring because they have a hiring freeze on, and that may be true. I’ve I’ve talked to people just within the HR world that there has been a moratorium on hiring that does not mean they’re not looking for you. It means that they may not be allowed to hire you in the way that they would normally want to or the using the their standard processes. I will say that even in a hiring freeze some organizations when there is when they haven’t need that, you can fill can get around that rule. Don’t not do your search because the company has a freeze, find someone inside that you can talk to about what the situation is now and whether or not you can do informational interview. Yes, just to find out what’s going on inside I I’m reminded of rich Lamotte who who wanted to work at Nike and when he wanted to work at ninety. Guess what they’re hiring hiring freeze, but as soon as a hiring freeze was lifted. When did he have? He had the reputation the other. He had the connections he’d have. We’ve mentioned him on a prior podcast so if you haven’t heard his name, it’s because you haven’t listened to the PODCASTS. What struck me about his story so profoundly? That when he was interviewing for the job, he got I believe it was for the one that he he landed. They thought he was already working. Because He. He spent so much time there on the campus. He was there all the time or often enough that they thought he was already employed. So if you’re looking at a company, especially a large company that’s well Silo D- that can happen to you as well, but don’t not reach out to them because you’ve heard.

00:20:03 – 00:25:03

They have a hiring freeze. Bad Economic Times are still good times to get hired and that’s exactly. Exactly, the time you want to reach out to somebody, because then you’re not, you don’t have a veiled request right right? You don’t have that elephant in the corner called job It’s more organic conversation and actually works better for you sure, and if you’re opposed or at least resistant or hesitant to network, this should be good news for you because you don’t have to talk about the job in the corner I. I also think about those who are employed and are doubting their ability to get into the better role or the better company, or whatever that is now working going to help you there, too, because if you’re in a role where there are others at other companies in your same type of role and their networking organizations that already exist for that whether it’s sales research, they’re all out. Yeah HR there if there is A. A National Association get to that Association and start networking with your peers in other companies because you can talk about all the things that your current company is doing without giving any indication that you’re looking to get away, you can have those conversations where it is not the threat and people will see you in that nonthreatening way the idea when you ask someone if they know of any jobs. We all WANNA help. Instead. If you’re going with the idea of just, you’re working on something and you’re looking for information advice. It takes the pressure off the person that you’re talking to. We’re in a position to get promoted than hiring freeze comes in then maybe some of these external forces with the pandemic. Come in, and you stop all of your activity that position you for that promotion thinking it’s never going to happen right I. Doubt This will ever happen for me because of all these different things, so you’re not insulated whether you’re working or not. Just because you have job doesn’t mean you’re not going to be considered for a promotion in fact I. I can encourage I can encourage even more that just about every organization is not going to be the same once. This thing has processed good. They’re going to have to reorganize. They’re going to have to have new people hired. Why because they haven’t been hiring people that worked in go away. It might still be there and it might just be delivered or donning the white done in a different way to think there aren’t opportunities in your company means that you’re oblivious to reality one of the points I absolutely agree with you if you’re considering working for a company that is currently badly impacted by the pandemic or any of these. These other reasons and that they’ve had to furlough people when they come back their new self, they’re going to need people probably with new skills as well so if you are that person with a different skill set than the people that they had to let go. That may put you at the head of the line. Don’t ignore that possibility as well the more time you spend on the inside, talking to people about what’s going on in their organizations, the better your going to be prepared for presenting yourself as that person that they need. The process is set up properly with the relationship I and I will give you the same advice, folks. Folks that I’m giving to most of the leaders that I’m interacting right now whenever you’re in a pandemic or a crisis or things are uncertain, you need more communication, not less communication and in a job search or in a process where you’re trying to establish relationship during this time where we’re all remote, that means I need to communicate more through different methods that I may not comfortable with right to get what I want, do more communication and be alert and cautious. When you work from absolutes. We mentioned that so anything like never always these absolutes are going to trip you up and put you in a this all or none mentality. Just is not helpful in getting you to the next level in your career as those self-doubt start to to get the better of you, there are things you can do. We’ve talked about especially getting out of your own head. I’d say that’s probably your first step. So when you hear those absolute start to come in, that should be a cautionary flag for you. I need to get out of my head from it. Let that be your tool. The moment you sale I’m never going to okay time out. There should be like a referee inside your mind. That gray’s of whistle says Yo timeout I know I have to do that. Occasionally self-doubt, it’s normal. Overcoming self doubt is not the same as eliminating self-doubt, and it’s learning how to deal with it. Not Try to ignore it. And one of the resources you might consider actually that I hadn’t thought of is I.

00:25:03 – 00:27:07

do a live broadcast every Friday on a Lincoln. So, it’s a Lincoln. Life Three PM Pacific Time Friday and I make it available to anybody, and so if that’s you, please go ahead. visit linked in profile will be listed in the show notes, or you can reach out to us through the website. Absolutely you need additional support. During these difficult times both Scott have made a commitment that we would make ourselves available. Let us now. To Talk to you if you have if you need some kind of direction, and if you need additional support, of course, we do have coaching programs that we could offer right, so go to job. Seekers radio DOT, com forward slash zero eight one download the e book that we did the Anatomy of networking conversation. Listen to that. Take the take notes on what you can do when you’re on the in the website. Send us a message and let us know how we can help. Help you. Either one of us will be will be happy to help will thank you for joining us for this episode of Job Seekers Radio the other thing you’ll see in the show notes is a link to items, and in that link you, you get the chance to do a couple of things I. If you want to subscribe on I tunes, and that happens to be your platform great, go ahead and do that. You’ll not only get subscribe, but you’ll get future episodes. The other thing that allows you to do provide us a rate and review, which is really helpful in getting the message out about this job. Seekers Radio that we’ve put together I think if you’ve gotten value of this, my guess is somebody else could too so rate review. Maybe even share with a friend or family member a colleague. Whatever’s whoever’s in your circle that you can think of that might benefit from this session or any of the other episodes we done. We would really appreciate that. Yes, we will well I’m Andrew and I’m Scott, and in the words of William Shakespeare modest out is called the beacon of the wise from. Everybody by.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Getting results from your networking starts with understanding what to expect from the activity. Managing your expectations can lead to better results, interviews, and many other positive next steps.

Join Scott and Andrew as they discuss the ins and outs of expectations and how things might go wrong.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Establishing expectations based on your situation and audience.
• What is the difference between delighted and disappointed.
• The role of mindset, trust and perception.
• What is reasonable to expect
• Identifying appropriate outcomes by thinking ahead
• Questions to ask in order to determine if you are being realistic
• Accepting feedback and making adjustments
• What to do when your expectations aren’t mirrored

Resources (including affiliate links)

What Color is Your Parachute 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:01 – 00:05:10

welcome job seekers radio. I’m Andrew and I’m Scott. This production is meant to provide you meaningful support to find great careers faster. The weather you’re working or not. Today’s episode is brought to you by the Anatomy of networking conversation. e-book it’s a free resource to you you can download unload data job seekers radio DOT COM so in today’s show. We want to talk about expectations in job. Search the preface to this. It’s part of a customer service training that I did many years ago and I still use this actually is the idea that the definition between delighting someone or disappointing them is simply defined as the gap between what is expected and what is delivered. We think a lot about those times in our job ob search when that we are disappointed in something whether it’s disappointed in our cells for not performing in a certain way whether it’s disappointed in the person who interviewed viewed us for not asking the kinds of questions that we were expecting not necessarily reacting to our responses. The way we were expecting the the problem is not in the behaviors whether our own or the other person’s it really is about what it was our expectation going in and the second question that is were those expectations realistic. So that’s what we want to talk about in today’s conversation. It’s really US wrestling with this. This idea of expectation frustration. Disappointment the different emotions that you’re gonNA feel either in work or in your career career or in a job search. There’s always hate to say it but there’s always gonna be somebody who doesn’t live up to your expectations. I found this when I first got into real estate and I had a list of all these people that I would call my good friends that said Oh well. I’m sorry. We can’t transact real estate with you. My Funchal is a real tour or my cousin or my fifth wife from a previous marriage or something. You know whatever that lives in this thing but you know when it’s like hang on a second here. I had this expectation because we have trust. You’re gonNA help me or allow me to help you. And you think about that in the the employment situation how many of us have gotten into working at a job where we thought we were coming into one kind of environment and it turned out it was very different. It’s it’s important to recognize if someone has told me that we behave in a certain way here and in fact we don’t that’s not on me what I do with the new. The information is on me and I can set some expectations based on reality rather than what. I was hoping for being told that those are the things I should could be hoping for. There’s there’s responsibility on the other side of that. What I do with the information is ultimately completely within my control? So that’s what we want to promote here is to create some reasonable expectations and not have them set so high that people are naturally going to come in underneath that. They’re going to let let us down in some fashion. If someone tells me that we have a culture at this organization that is employee center. Can It’s all about the employee experience. I think that’s going to he great but knowing human nature my expectation is going to be a lot lower not so much to tell them how they are having problems with living their expectations. -tations as much as it is. Where do I really fit because that is going to set me up for success? Today’s conversation really is going to be narrowed focused on networking working what we mean by expectations as relates to networking with people. which is something? We really advocate as an effective search method and all of the research supports. What’s that at least the ones that I’ve read and really we’re talking here about? What is the expectation and really wanting to get from my networking and is that accurate? And there’s many different components in networking that we can talk about. The first one is the outcome. What is the appropriate outcome that we can expect from networking if we think about the Outcome that also is going to alleviate some of the fear that we have going into networking conversations whether that’s an interview and Informational interview or just a basic doc. Never came conversation if we can look at. What are the outcomes we want? We have something to focus on. We’re going to be less afraid of having the conversation if we know what we want out of. And you might have more than one expectation that actually offers you an opportunity to get some of your expectations met which will lower your fear and your apprehension regression and actually have walking away from networking a little more positive on what it means. We often come into these networking conversations with an expectation that the other people involved are also as open to it as we are and sometimes that doesn’t happen. What do we do with that first of all the question that I ask I is is where my expectations appropriate were the outcomes that I had hoped for realistic in that situation? It may be a situation that I wouldn’t know ahead of time.

00:05:10 – 00:10:05

Fine I can learn from it. Okay so I went to this networking group and I’m just using this. As an example it was an association of people that do the kind of work that I do I went to the networking opportunities. Pretended that they offered and I did not get out of it what I was hoping for. Why not what was it that was a barrier was coming in with unreal- unrealistic expectations? Order did I maybe make a misstep as I started whatever that is. I’m not going to judge it. I’m just going to try to figure it out. Do The post mortem if you will. Because that’s what you control troll. You don’t control of that group or the other people or their reality or even their perception of reality what I control is me and if I can look inward hurt and say okay. I’m going to take responsibility. That may be part of the reason. I didn’t get my expectations. Met is because it was some way I was looking at it case in point I just had a a inexperience recently. Talking with a fairly high level professional she is Vp within her organization. And I was helping to build a relationship relationship with her Not Personal all professional but the idea was I want to a network further into her part of her organization and so I was having this conversation and she had promised to get back to me a week later and she didn’t. It was a week after that that she finally did and she gave me some critical feedback that did not feel feel-good she first of all expressed how highly she thought of me in the ways that we had worked together in the past and wanted to maintain that relationship so as she setting setting this up. I’m realizing there’s something negative coming and eventually. She told me that I basically over shared some information with her that she didn’t think was appropriate for that conversation and she wanted me to know not because she thought it was a bad person it quite the contrary she wanted me to know what had put her off so I had to you set aside the embarrassment that came from Matt and set aside myself judgment enough to recognize that she meant. Well she actually cared enough off to give me that feedback. Even though it did not feel good. The other thing that happened was afterwards after. I’m processing doing that. Post mortem were my expectations. -tations realistic did I do the right thing. And when I came up with was no I didn’t do the right thing with her but that wasn’t because of her. That was just because I misjudged the information she was looking for. I didn’t validate it before I gave it to her. I have now had a learning experience from this I. I won’t be as free to talk with her because not going to make the same assumptions about her. That I did before and I made this assumptions based on a mutual friend. Someone who had sent me up for the conversation in the first place and I based the expectation on what kind of conversation I would have had with my friend not with the networking contact. Here’s an opportunity ready for us to think ahead about. What is the appropriate expectation for this specific opportunity and being an open person as I am? I share freely really. How do I dial that back to stay within the confines of their expectations and that would have led me some questions? About how candidate can I be. How great is it though to have that learning experience have somebody actually share it with you? Many people would just look at that. and not say any writing. And you Rollin doing the same thing and you what you’re wondering why. Hey why. It’s a really the thing that we’re talking about here is. Are you okay with that. Are you okay with not having your expectations is met. Because some people can’t cope with that kind of feedback or the silence. One of those who are going to drive them absolutely crazy. True true it takes practice practice. Don’t get me wrong. It did not feel good. My initial reaction was one of being put off but I had to accept the fact once once I realized no. She’s really trying to give me feedback because it will help me. I had to set aside those feelings of remorse or embarrassment or whatever in order to get the lesson out of it. That is a skill that is practiced. I don’t know anyone who does that. Naturally I was coaching client recently. Where they went into a an interaction she had a set of beliefs about what networking should be and they weren’t mirrored by the person she was meeting with because I had set her up for such success with these best practices that she was disappointed? That this other person didn’t get it and that’s where you know. Make sure that you understand what your the definition of networking might be is different than what the other person might think that it is and if you have enough time to ask these kinds of questions you can actually ask the other. A person with their expectations are especially. If you’re the one requesting never can conversation with someone and so you meet and they say so. What do you want out of this conversation section? It is totally okay to turn that question back around after you answer of course then you ask them.

00:10:05 – 00:15:03

What are you looking to get out of this conversation? This also sets you up for that mutual benefit situation that we were talking about in a prior. podcast if you have that mindset of mutual benefit by asking them what do you want out of this networking conversation conversation. You’re now going to establish what those differences are so that the expectations are now shared. What we’re learning here is that learning might be one one of the expectations? You should have love it from networking not only learn from that person but to learn about yourself the loop land how to be better at this craft. The other part of that is the other person may have the right intentions but they may not be as skilled as you are at executing them so we also have to be patient in the process for the the other person even if they’re in a position where you’d think that they should know this not everybody does reciprocate is often one of the expectations. That people are looking for that. Hey if if I give you something. I’m expecting something back right. A give and take and sometimes that isn’t mirrored and if your expectation is you’re going to get something out of it and it doesn’t doesn’t happen if I come into our cain conversation with the idea that I am going to give not necessarily I’m going to receive. I’m going to give that’s going to be my effort right here than I am not disappointed if I don’t receive something not. Everyone has the same ability to reciprocate. Dave probably will try what they will do who is mirror to some degree as you’re reading. What is happening in the moment if you’re good at that if you’re not this is something you’ll want to practice in your networking conversations number sessions? If you’re seeing what they’re mirroring you can actually lean into that to gain greater trust and then maybe find that mutual benefit along the way really really the best way for me to get to that reciprocation. Moment is to make sure that I’m talking about us. We are looking at this conversation together. If I’m talking only about me what I expect what I want from you. Or what can I do for you. It changes when we shift the conversation to. What can we do together now? We find out what those mutual expectations are in a different way. It’s important to remember also that this is not zero sum game. meaning that it’s not every conversation is going to go as you planned. Not every person is gonNA reciprocate. Not every person is going to be free to give you information. Part of this process versus of networking is establishing a pool of people. That can actually offer you something and you can reciprocate in so. There’s a symbiotic relationship if you will when we think about what we hope to get out of something. If we don’t get it there is still something that we can learn. I’ve never been in a situation relation where there was nothing to gain from having had the conversation. Sometimes it’s only the idea that I know that this is a path that is not going to bear fruit in in the short term and I might want to put off my next conversation with that person. That doesn’t happen often. That’s the worst case scenario. Never unless they are truly the type of person who is very difficult and I don’t want to get to know them any further Usually it’s okay. This isn’t going to be where I put my time in energy and today but maybe in a couple of months I can circle back and see if there isn’t some fertile ground there somewhere instead offering up my time to network with other people people when you go in with the expectation of giving as opposed to getting. You’re much more likely to then get what you’re expecting. And so this has been a positive experience experience for you and for them and can lead to another conversation brings me full circle back to real estate. I had a group of people that I thought were my good friends of trust and I expected them to do business with me. All that meant for me was they wanted to be friends. Yes they just didn’t want to do business with me. An and yes. That was hard feedback back to get but what that meant for me in my business is I wasn’t going to invest time marketing selling interacting with them as a potential client in order to get business. They actually did me a favor because now you can spend the time and energy to make them into better friends or I can go spend my business time with clients. It’ll actually do the business with right so I would have said and spend the time because the thing is that’s a really important distinction to make my social time is going to be different from my professional time. If I’m investing my social time into building those friendships I never know what kind of professional leads may come from that later. But I’m going to put the effort in where it belongs if instead I keep keep pushing these potential friends to bring business. I’m actually not doing anybody any favors. They’ve already given me the feedback. I needed to address them in away. That’s actually meaningful to them. Free me up to do the other efforts with people who are actually going to bring the business so when we think about the networking conversations. It’s the same anwr. We’re always adding people taking people away.

00:15:03 – 00:19:35

You know maybe not taking away but involving them allowing them to go. That’s fine. It’s all about timing sometimes times. The timing isn’t right or there’s life change. There’s a lot of variables when you’re talking about human beings. Yes just normal just the other day I was talking about well. Actually I think it was this morning. I was talking to some people about the idea of seeing on social media comments by friends that I really spend a lot of time and energy trying to build. Those is relationships had never got anything. We’re talking over a period of years because I tend to be persistent and I just never get the effort back and what what changed in the moment was moving from being disappointed to realizing that I am surrounded albeit by a small circle but surrounded by family and friends who actually really do care who do reciprocate who do make the effort why to your point. I continue to make efforts where they don’t pay off. It’s easier to let those go. Oh and to be in the place where they belong in terms of my relationships and instead as I think about my networking what am I doing. That actually brings me Good feelings what is it. What groups do I go to? What meetings do I attend? What conversations do I have that? Bring me more of those. That’s where where I want to focus my time and energy so instead of worrying about the things that don’t work to your point letting them subtract themselves. I’m going to build up those conversations that actually work and now I feel good about networking. My expectations have been reset. I’ve got a more realistic idea. Yeah of how I can move forward. I feel better about doing so. Suddenly I’m in that virtuous circle that helps me move forward many times. It’s conversations nations leading to more conversations or conversations leading to application resume higher or assess or conversations lead nowhere. There’s there’s always an outcome to every conversation and it just may not be what you think it is. The key is keep having the conversations right keep interacting with people. It will happen now we get to an idea of well. I’m an introvert or I prefer to connect very slowly with people. That’s just is my style totally appreciate that. You’re going to be working at a different pace at no point. Am I going to suggest that you need to do this. At the pace that I do because I can act very quickly with people and I may not be totally extroverted but I am certainly more extroverted than a lot of people. I know in spite of the fact that I still need that downtime time. I’m more comfortable doing that. Don’t judge your pace against mine. Take the pace that makes sense for you and create realistic expectations associated with head. That way. You’re not disappointed either. And if you need to move or feel the need to move at a pace that is faster than you would prefer or to have these conversations conversations. When you’re really not a conversationalist by nature? Maybe you employ the help of somebody else to help facilitate the conversation. You go as a pair to a networking group meeting. Hang or whatever this looks like so that you have support so you don’t have to be the only one having the conversation find ways to make it work for you set. Those outcomes those expectations based on realistic efforts. Thank you for joining us for this episode of Job Seekers Radio Your investment of time and attention is greatly appreciated head on over did I tuned subscribed to get future episodes. While you’re there please. Provide us a rate and review. That really is GonNa push this labor of love for both of us up into the ranks so that more people can see it. We also appreciate when you ask questions whether it’s about this episode or the others are maybe some something you’re dealing with in in your job search. We love answering these questions. We do specific podcasts. Four questions and answers. We’d love to include your questions in that at the moment what we do want you to go to job seekers radio DOT com forward slash zero seven. Two you’ll get the show notes. But also that’s where you’re gonNA find. The anatomy let me of networking conversation e book. And scroll down to the bottom of that same page. Leave a comment or a question there. Every page on our podcast has space for you to provide comments comments and feedback right. We really want to hear from you. Well I’m Andrew and I’m Scott and in the words of Michael Jordan if you accept the expectations of others especially Salihi negative ones then you will never change the outcome also. Thanks everybody bye bye.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Culture is the environment, including common values, vision, and mission. Does every organization have one? Likely, yes.

Does the organization live their values? No, not always.

Scott and Andrew share thoughts about identifying your cultural values and how alignment with company culture is a critical exercise for your career.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Researching corporate values.
• Filtering corporate values against your own values.
• Investigating first hand through networking and interviewing.
• How to manage the varying levels of belief in and living out the corporate culture.
• Developing and documenting values as part of the job search and career management process.
• Maintain openness to possibilities and opportunities for something better.
• Decisions to make a move within or outside.
• Would it be worth it to work towards changing the culture.

Resources (including affiliate links)

037 Networking When You Are Feeling Desperate
068 Balancing Cultural Fit With Urgent Need For Employment 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:01 – 00:05:01

welcome to job seekers radio. I’m Scott and I’m Andrew and this production is meant to be meaningful support for you to find great career careers faster whether you’re working or not that’s right. Today’s episode is brought to you by the anatomy of a networking conversation. It’s a free e book did you can download at Jobseeker’s obscures radio DOT com. It’s a wonderful resource. It’s our philosophy really that we’ve developed a four step process so when you download that document you actually get the companion audio to help walk you through getting your feet wet with networking. If it’s not something that you felt you were really you felt positive about felt felt that it was easy for you. We hope that this will bring it a little bit within your reach Scott. Tell me about today’s show. Today’s show we’re going to be talking about the role of culture in your the job. Search a lot of companies talk about their culture and how they are employee centric in so many ways and I think this is great. The idea that that company executives and leaders are looking for ways to connect with their people and to make them feel better about working there. I think is important and I think it’s critical for for employee engagement. which is something we talk a lot about in the corporate world these days especially in? HR circles as well as within leadership your ship because ultimately they have to keep people engaged right so they create these wonderful cultures. They’re also usually pretty good about promoting what those values might might be. What brought this to mind though? And and as Andrew you and I were talking about this I’ve run into a few conversations recently to that talk about culture her especially from a perspective where when they get there they find out the culture is really just talk. They’re not necessarily living the beliefs or values news that they say they have. They just put that up there to make you feel good about working there while that’s a step in the right direction. They’re seeing as the gap between what they say they value and what they seem to be doing in the workforce so what we want to talk about is how do you recognize that. How do you validate they live the values versus just the talk? And what do you do with the information that you find. Whenever I talked to folks about culture? Their eyes glaze over offer as a job seeker. They’re like culture. What do you mean you’ve never really considered it until you’ve documented and what I found is that if you don’t recognize what culture you you were in and what parts of it you liked and what you WanNa see replicated in your next job? It’s hard for you to even know and that’s the first step or the first challenge challenge that many of my coaching clients have the second step is to believe that they have a choice to pick that culture or not pick that coal right when the job offers on the table even before. I’ve talked to people all the time where they’re saying. Well I can’t really afford to not pursue a company because I need a job. Well I totally appreciate that. I’m not going to challenge that. It is so much better for the applicant to make choices along the way. And if you don’t don’t feel comfortable not choosing to move forward with a company what you can do is choose how you’re going to deal with the situations that you’re going to face especially really if you end up getting hired so it’s important to know what those choices look like. What is it that’s going to make you make a choice and this comes back to culture every company of any any size? We’ll have a vision statement mission statement. They often have a values statement. These are the values that we we believe in as a company whether that’s for the customer or for their employees and obviously we’re looking for that Employment Lens. This is the kind of I’ve worked environment. We create for our employees. The thing I like about that is those companies that do that have a view and I think an accurate one that it’s the employee employee experience that really drives the customer experience because employs that deal with the customers so if the employees are going through a really positive experience the likelihood the customers feel that positive attitude will increase. So what does that look like. You have to go to the website you have to talk to them about what those values are and how they live of them. That’s the culture that means you need to document what you believe. Their culture is the challenge that I’ve seen a lot of people have is. They’ll look at. They’ll look at the website. They’ll say okay. That looks great. They’ll look at their Lincoln. Write Lincoln has a company page where they can say. Here’s what life looks like at Xyz Company and okay. But I never wrote any of these things down and said okay. We’ll which these are even important to me because you may have said Oh. This looks great. I’d love to work there yet. But what does that it really mean for you. Personally and great lends to US too often. We both talked to people looking for work. Who are just putting their resumes out there? They’re making those those connections as quickly as they can.

00:05:01 – 00:10:03

They’re really not paying attention to what is behind the company. That has the job description. Out there You know the job posting take the time time we will challenge you every time. Take the time to look at what that actually means. Not just what the company says. But what does that mean to you would. Would this be important to you if you were there. It may look good but not really apply to you or it may not really align with what is important to you. That’s important to I know as you are then taking that information you’ve highlighted. These are the things that are important to me. You now have an opportunity to talk to someone whether it’s networking or an interview situation about how you fit in with that culture. How you ally with them with that said the next step is to find out? Do they actually live their values news. And that’s GonNa take more than one brief conversation. You have to talk to several people to find out. Is this just the way. They present themselves or do they actually put their air money where their mouth is and live this and expect this within their organization at all levels. Couple things to be cautious of when you’re going through this kind of validation process success is not to assume that if you’ve heard it five times it must be true because often we think okay if I’ve heard it from five different people in an organization of thirty thousand. That’s still not a big enough sample size. Not only that have they said it in exactly the same way if they’re using exactly the same words. Okay this is something. They’re drilled old in but do they live. Do they live it and the second challenge that I see or at least the vulnerability to think about. Is this idea if I’m asking them questions since I have to ask him in a way that I can get the answer I need and are often. Were asking questions directly. You know. See you haven’t interest like I’m just regurgitating. What I saw on the website site? I see you have an interest in diversity. Great what you’re interested in diversity. Yeah what are we talking about. So we’ll see where I I thought you were going to go with. This is how you direct. You are in asking questions because that’s another topic that I just had a conversation with someone. This last week was perhaps there to direct Iraq and I remembered a story when I was interviewing years ago at a hotel for a leadership position and I was interviewing with evs the the second or third step at the process interviewing with the general manager and I went to the direct and I said so I understand that this hotel has a reputation for or being a revolving door for people within my division. What are we doing to counter that? and He came back with. Wow that is actually my responsibility. And he’s he responded in such a way to let me know that I had just put in a Dick insulted him while it was true. I probably could have have massage that a little differently right. I could have asked the question that would have given me the information I needed without making it. Feel like an accusation as you are finding being out the information you need. It’s really important that you interview them and interviewing we talk about behavioral questions which are open ended. Did it isn’t. Are you doing something about this. It is tell me about a time when something happened and what you got out of that. These are are the kinds of questions that as you ask them. You’re going to find out whether or not their culture is actually the type of environment you want to work in but again coming coming back to your original question. Why do you want that kind of environment? You’ve got to be able to answer that question. You have to be clear about and not. Many people have given consideration in hiring hiring process for these components. It’s like what I need is a resume and a cover letter and I need to apply online. I only need three tools right. I don’t need to actually evaluate the culture. I don’t need to network and so there’s a bunch of things that people don’t think they need to do and then they’re disappointed when they get on the job and it’s shitty environment. I totally agree with you. conversation that I was having with this guy this past week we were talking about being disappointed because it has been my experience far more than once of coming into an organization believing that they live the culture they publish and then only to find out later that they are not consistent or they don’t actually actually care they don’t live according to what they say they value and if you consider the difference between disappointment or a big delighted both are true as the gap between what you expect and what is delivered. Then who’s responsibility is it than to to have done the due diligence to discover. What is the culture I am? I going to fit their the experiences that I have had is that I trusted too much in in the beginning that they did do this rather than they aspired to this which is a completely different mindset. It’s a little bit of a nuance as it is so if I know going into that this is what we aspire to.

00:10:03 – 00:15:05

But we don’t always do it. I can actually accept the failures. has they come as opportunities to to grow rather than being offended that they don’t live their values and that’s up that’s in my head that’s going on in me is still your experience. It is and it’s still something you have control of. That doesn’t give them license to continue that behavior true. I still have choices to make. Once I realized how well or how poorly they do to the way I approach. It is different and so that is going to affect the way you have these networking conversations with people if you are validating that everyone is is saying the same thing that they do talk about their values consistently and there appear to be those stories of how they live. Those values remember that they’re going to pick and choose. Who is the best stories to tell that one? You’re more likely to get into that area. That were they really do live their values as you validate this and ask. Those open ended questions that aren’t putting them on the spot. They don’t feel like they’re being accused of anything. But you’re trying to build a big picture with their help is not uncommon. That if if you’re listening to this podcast that you’re probably working somewhere where some of these components exist in. You’re thinking to yourself what do I do now. You can use these same concepts in meaning you have some choices to make. The first thing is to remember you have a choice. The second thing is to remember is to think about. Hey what do I really enjoy about where I’m at right now. Even though it may not be the best is we often don’t consider that there are still virtues here to focus on or we get so bogged down in the negatives that keep keep coming back that we forget to take time to think about what goes well. It’s important that we make an effort to do that. If only to keep ourselves grounded in what we can enjoy for some of our listeners. There may be a situation where you have nothing that you really enjoy their. And it is time for you to leave. We acknowledge that we encourage urge you to get that networking going so that you can get out as soon as you can but most of us are in a situation where even if we’re not totally happy and the job we can find something positive positive that keeps us afloat and that is what builds the resilience that we need to find our next opportunity. If you’re in a situation where you’re maybe you’re offered a job rob and you’re you have questions about the culture. Your first choice will be whether or not you accept that offer. I would never say no. Don’t do it unless you know that that culture is going to be toxic for you and remember also cultures are not necessarily toxic for everyone. SOMEONE IS GONNA come out ahead in that. It may not be the right opportunity for you if this is going to be a gap job you know that we’ve talked about data right other podcasts. Were we’re going to set that aside at this point. That is a choice choice you can make. And if you’re in a position where you have to take the job now because you need a job right now. Remember that you will continue to have choices as you go keep your networking going. Keep Your Eyes Open for all of the opportunities within this organization that you just joined as well as outside because you are responsible for your own experience each opportunity is a chance for you to refine what it is you you enjoy what it is you like. What kind of people you enjoy working with breath so even in a bad situation I guarantee you? There’s something good I like working with people okay. What kind of people do you enjoy working with? So this is me putting my coach hat on because part of this process going from zero to one is probably the hardest meaning. I’m in a place on getting paid. Why should I leave? I now have to get leverage on myself. Just to go from zero to one is a useful exercise to take a look at these cultural components throughout your career. At any point in time you should probably have a document of some kind that describes your next step or your dream job or whatever it is. You’re trying to accomplish in your career in your life and your whatever’s the other thing that I was thinking as you were saying saying who are the people that you do like now you’re also building your list for the kind of culture you WANNA be in. I WanNa work with people that are like this you know I. I’m currently working with ten and different people on my team. But it’s really joe and Sally that I really like working with why. What is it about Jones? Sally that you feel good about working with them. What does that look like? Another companies who who is outside or maybe another departments within the same company. Who is it? That’s going to work with you similar to the two that you do like now you’re creating the list subculture that you want to give an example where Sally Joe and Suzy or whatever interacted with you. Well enjoyed it right so now. I’m looking at not only why but but I’m looking at how. How is that exhibit? And so you might say okay. Well I like working with Sally because she adds something to the conversation. Okay give me an example. Now I can look at that example and then I can reverse engineer a question for that hiring team or in my networking interactions to say. Hey when a situation like this comes up right. So you’re really already have documented what that looks like and is it as exhibited inside the company.

00:15:05 – 00:20:05

I think that’s brilliant. I do think that a lot of cases we are able to take that initial job that we absolutely needed and then parlay that into something. That’s actually better. You have to be patient in doing that. Because very few companies want to hire you into a physician that immediately allow you to transfer into something else unless they’re in a high growth situation where that actually make sense for them. Moving out of an organization isn’t always they only option that you have moving elsewhere within the organization can be a good option and their times when moving out of the organization really is your bat so we come back to that question. What is it that you enjoy doing? What companies are out there that do the same sorts of things and who can you validate eight that these organizations have the culture? You’re looking for. I think it’s always good to assume there’s something better. There’s probably a better job a better manager a better organization of if you don’t assume there’s something better you’re going to stop looking. You’re you’re gonNA stop doing the things that got you to where you are in the first place right. I like that the other thing about that is if you can’t find the one that’s better than maybe a suggestion that you’re in a good spot. So how can I change my mindset. That will be. That will make me more resilient in the negative times that I’m having so that I’m focused more on the positives. We are looking for validation of the kind of Culture Richard that we work well in that resonates for us that things that we really aligned with. How do we get into that more? Whether it’s looking outside the company or at least is looking outside your team or department. These are ways for us to actually make things better for ourselves without feeling like we have to start over. Don’t overlook the value you making this a fertile playground. If you’re the type of person that likes turning cultures around that you love change any love maybe you look at this like a challenge right. This is a great new challenge for me to impact this culture. I know I’m only one person but only really takes one person to change an entire culture. It does you will need to do that a carefully. I love the idea. I have done that sort of work before I enjoy it but you have to be very careful I to understand on a very deep level. How and why they do what they do now? Because there is a reason somebody further up likes what they see before you go in and try and change something find out why the status quo is the status quo. What is the value that the current situation brings to those who are making the decisions? Because if you have that in mind as you’re looking for things is that can improve. You could actually turn that and connect it back to what they value while seeking change that you would like to see that way. You’re getting the buy in from the beginning. If instead you come in and immediately say oh I can change this out of the other. I did that early in my leadership career where I came in in a director position position because they needed my skills. I saw ways that my staff could do things a little differently. That would help them. So I made the changes and they resented it even even though they were having greater success. And it’s because I didn’t take the time to find out what they were doing now and why they were doing now why that was important. In the previous he s moment you know with their their prior boss. Had I done that I would have had a much easier transition of making the changes that I wanted because I understood where they were coming from. That was a really important lesson for me to learn now in the end we were a really tight team. We’ve stayed in touch over the years since that was a lesson. I need to learn. Learn it from me. They don’t don’t make the mistake of going in and changing it right away. If change is your thing if you are you’re change oriented and you like making that kind of difference. No that takes time before you start the process and it’s going to take time to initiate any chain yes. These are all components of probably a change model. You’re familiar with the idea. Is You know I’m looking at it from the perspective of Gosh I’m mad. I’m pissed they sold me something I did want and then I’m just going to go into satisfied every day. You know what I mean I do and and so the the idea here I look at it like a challenge. That’s hey you know. I know they WANNA spouse to these values. I’m going to do whatever I can’t get them there and look look at that just as a personal challenge to do whatever you know process that you feel is appropriate to get there and I like the point that you make. It’s easy for us. Once we realize just how far or how little we can actually effect change. We have the tendency all human beings do to go in and say okay. I’m just GONNA and get my minimum. I’m done with us. You will feel better about your contribution if you set that feeling aside and continue to do the best work you can do due to make the changes you can to have the positive impacts that you can and allow them to make the decisions they wanna make has. What’s out of your control is out of your control? Troll make a change take a step do something as a result of today’s session.

00:20:05 – 00:21:19

Today’s podcast there might have been something you learned. Here is not just good enough that you sit. Sit here and listen to this podcast every something whether it takes something you know so what we want you to do is actually go to the website. JOBSEEKER’S RADIO DOT COM forward slash zero seven seven. One scroll down to the bottom of the page and just leave us a comment. What did you try? What are you GONNA do ask a question or what did you try? And it didn’t work work because that’s going to be a really good learning opportunity. Why didn’t it work to to your best record election or your ability to interpret whatever happened line? It didn’t work. What did you learn from that? What will you do differently next time? Because that’s how we really grow go to job seekers radio DOT COM forward slash zero seven one for show notes. And while you’re there there’s a free resource for you. It’s called the anatomy of the networking conversation. Is A book that we put together for your use and and you can also head over to itunes leave rate in review. It spreads the message we do. This is a labor of love and so please spread the love. Well this is Andrew and I’m Scott and in the words of William early ambition is the path to success. Persistence is the vehicle you arrive in. Thanks everybody bye bye.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

You know you should network. You know many people find jobs and get promoted through networking. So what’s the hold up?

Sometimes knowing how to network is the hard part.  Scott and Andrew share the Top 9 Ways to get your networking Done.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Top 9 Methods to Get your Networking Done
• Best practices for networking to make it easier.

Resources (including affiliate links)

What Color is Your ParachuteNetworking: Insiders’ Strategies for Tapping the Hidden  Market Where Most Jobs Are Found 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:01 – 00:05:07

welcome to job seekers radio. I’m Andrew and I’m Scott. This is a podcast. Meant to provide you meaningful support to find great careers faster. And that’s whether you’re working or not. Today’s episode is brought to you by the anatomy of a networking conversation e book. It’s a free resource that you can download download at Jobseeker’s radio DOT COM. There’s a little link on the homepage where you can do so down at the bottom of the page you can put in your little email address and we’d be happy to send you that a free resource. You can put your big email address in there to today’s episode is the top nine ways. Networking can be done. There are a lot of definitions editions out there. And we’re going to go over the ones that we think are both the most common but also the must effective how we execute this whole networking can take many different forms often often when I talk to job seekers or even professionals that are working they believe networking to be something very specific. They kind of have put it in a box right. And and basically the approach that we generally take is used the things that work don’t limit yourself to only the things that you know about. There’s always an an opportunity to try something new. So what does that look like. We want to talk about some of that today and at the end will actually ty shift gears and talk about. What is it successful conversation? Sation what should you really have outside of just the methods. We’re going to talk about and really we’re going to start here with the nine ways. You can actually have a conversation with with somebody and the first way you can do. That is in a group setting many job seekers. I’ve talked to say they think networking is. I have to go somewhere where I don’t know anybody. And there’s there’s a large group of people and that’s what networking and networking event. Whether that is a group of people that are looking for work it might be an association and King Opportunities some something that has a theme or maybe they have a speaker. Maybe not but it’s where everybody gathers and again the room full of people you don’t know but you have something in common with so that works. We recommend that. If that’s your thing do it do it as much as you can. Because if it is a numbers burst game for you you will pick up something if you go to enough of them you might find these on something like meet up or event right. It might be an association might might be a job seekers group. These group events are really good to meet New People. You don’t know. And that’s the whole point. Is that often some people think networking working in just talking to the people. I already know. And if we only talk to the people we know we’re GONNA get diminishing return absolutely. This is a great way to go to a new environment. Meant to test your limits. Get outside your comfort zone. Meet somebody I hadn’t yet known yet and really what did they say. Strangers are only friends. You haven’t met yet. I personally a enjoy doing these kinds of networking events because that fits my style and I understand. They’re different people. Different styles different things that were even for those four home. The networking events can be a little uncomfortable. It can still be valuable experienced. We do recommend that you try that. It’s going to be the most visible you’re going to have the most post operative there and as you approach them. Don’t go in with an expectation that you’re going to have a home run in this one experience if you keep appear expectations relatively low then. Frees you up to look for things that you wouldn’t necessarily be expecting. It’s sort of counterintuitive to less issue going expecting the more you walk out with the other group event I would take a look at is. It is actually a job fair. I’ve seen these career job fairs. It’s a group group of people. It’s an exceptionally good place to network. Because either the people there have jobs or the people you meet who are looking for work ended up getting a job somewhere that you worry. So there’s a lot of benefit to do to looking at job fairs as a networking group of absolute that way rather than just a place to find a job for well and then there’s also the those who are looking for a job at the job fair when you strike up the conversation. They may know of something that is more up your alley than it was affairs. You’re making connections with people. If you have the job seeking in common often you’ll become comrades arms here and they can help broaden broadened the scope of your reach their within the group context. What we’re really talking about is having one on one conversations? You can’t have one too many but the the second way that you can do. Networking conversation is individually in person. And that could happen in a group context but more often than not. It’s it’s you taking aching. Maybe the group context offline at another time or something of that nature so The the second way would be networking individually with so so if you’re going to the large group event and you meet someone that you want to have a conversation with. You don’t necessarily have to have that deep conversation there. If you’re in a position to set up at the time not too far in the future to get together individually then that can be really impactful conversation.

00:05:07 – 00:10:07

One you will have had the large group experience that you can talk about later compare notes what worked for you. What didn’t because that will be the beginning of your individual conversation? It’s sort of warms both parties up up and you can then talk about the things that are more important to both of you. Investing that time is really critical and building a relationship of trust short. It’s something we’ll get to a little bit later. Her what I look at in terms of the individual conversations. I kind of look at it if you’re not used to doing those things is start with the people you know I now. You shouldn’t just stay there. We talked about the downside of doing that but the next step is to get introduced to people. They know that you don’t yet know. And then going then onto people who you just flat don’t know talking to the people that you do know especially if they’re closer friends or even family members. You may think that you know everyone they do. But but that’s not true intellectually. You probably know that that’s not true. But what could they possibly due to introduce me to somebody. I don’t know well. Are you having the the conversation with them. I know I don’t talk to my closest friends about networking beyond the people that that I know to include the people they know if I’m taking that opportunity opportunity with someone that I do trust to say. Hey I really want to reach beyond my current circle. Can you help me meet New People. The chances are pretty a good. They’ll think of somebody and then it starts from there and don’t overlook that even though you may know the same people they might know that person a little bit better than you you do or in a different way in a different way and the challenge that you have when you go to people you know is they know us a certain person and if you don’t want to be known as that person you really have to change aged listening for you and so if I’m right now. People may know me as Andrew Realtor but now I’m Andrew Career Coach or executive coach leadership development person or or whatever. Exactly how do I then reach out to that person and have that conversation. Maybe that’s another podcast episode. or You could take a look at the anatomy of a networking conversational. Help you Louis. Some of those things on how to build a branding statement and to have a new conversation with the same people right if someone already perceives me as a specific specific identity or job title or whatever that might look like. It’s going to take some effort to undo that and it may never be successful it you think about the really close close personal relationships you have with people they always see you as how they met you or how they interacted with you so even if they know that you have shifted into to a new direction they may not make those same kinds of connections. That’s okay the idea then is to try to meet people who see you in the new identity or the new job title or whatever it is. He wanted us to define and have that. Networking conversation happened a little differently. The Third Way that you can think about executing this networking networking is to on the phone. I actually really appreciate this because it does a couple of things for me. It saves me a whole bunch of time trying to fit somebody you my schedule and then drive somewhere. Meet them and then drive back where I could actually be interacting with several other folks during that time or executing would I have done on my work so the one thing that I lead with especially as I am scheduling a phone conversation. First of all in person networking provides an opportunity to really communicate. One hundred percent of your message when you think about communication fifty five percent of what we communicate is in our body language. Another thirty three thirty eight percent is tone of voice. Only seven percent of what we communicate is in the words that we choose so. If we can’t meet in person I want to at least allow them almost half of the message to include tone of voice and that’s a phone call it really even even though it feels less personal than and in-person meeting and in fact that’s true it’s still is far better than email even that has its place the idea that you’re actually actually having an exchange in the moment is going to help you make that kind of progress. I also encourage coaching clients. If they’re doing networking in the person they can meet with in person isn’t available till six weeks down the road but they got fifteen minutes to talk on the phone right now by all means do it right take advantage of that it because you can set up the one two down the road for later absolutely and if you had a video camera on right now you could see there were actually using non verbal communication. Saly totally and I believe that that still translates maybe not as effectively as in person. But if you’re on the phone please continue to use the non verbal communication because because that will come through on the phone absolutely but you bring up video video. Chat is another way that you can networking network with people and if it’s different some people people don’t like to do it because it feels too much like facetime and they have associated video chatting with just the personal conversations.

00:10:07 – 00:15:04

The reason why they feel so personal is because has your having a lot more of the communication happening. It isn’t as impersonal as just a phone call. Other people may not like using video for for whatever reason. There are many addressed that carefully when you have an opportunity to video chat with someone to do that networking conversation. Don’t pass that up. Yeah don’t don’t say no I mean I would never turn down a conversation of any kind. Well maybe sometimes Scott reaches out to me at inopportune Mo- I just have to say no in the side effect of being able to do this. Networking thing really well is something. We’ve addressed and other podcasts. But it needs to be restated. Is that if I’m doing networking I’m practicing kissing an interview. If I’m doing my networking on the phone. I’m practicing for a phone screen. Many companies are now transitioning toward video interviews at the front end of a process. US and many of these might be recorded but there certainly is still all kinds of HR companies coming on the scene narrator revolving around video interviews. Yes I’ve I’ve seen that very recently. Where even someone who is local? You may be five minutes from their office and they’re still going to schedule a video interview. I appreciate appreciate why I it’s not my preference. It certainly isn’t what I would do if I were conducting the interview. But we’re finding this more and more common so so be prepared for that and the the advice and I think we may have said this in the past dress as if it’s the in person interview including put on the suit pants. Don’t wear Pajama Jammeh. Pants right. Yes because if you get hired you’ll be able to joke about that later dress for an in person interview even though it is via video not only will you appear more professional but you will behave differently. That’s number four using the video chat to do your networking number. Five is actually a group video environment. Virement many people haven’t thought about this but there’s a lot of video training and webinars. There’s a lot of things that go on online in a group video environment where you can have a zoom call Brian. There’s fifteen twenty people there and there’s all this silence and you’re like hey joe what do you do right. You know. It’s really funny. How something you go to learn ends up turning into networking interaction? which is a connection individually? That leads to something else. Absolutely idea that when you’re doing group video chat hat and you can see all the different faces on the screen and you can pay attention to every single one of them in one view and I think about panel interviews. Personally I enjoy them because for me it’s sort of a kind of performance aspect and so as I’m going through. I have to remember to address the person who asked the question but then to include everybody else and so that shifts with every question whoever is posing the question is the one who gets the majority of the eye contact. But I’m including everyone in when when you’re doing a group video chat you don’t have to worry about that. All you have to do is look at the camera. Remember to look at the camera because so often we see the people sitting At the computer doing their video chatting and they’re not actually looking at the camera. They’re looking at their screen. Be Aware that the reason why you want to look at your camera is so they I feel you are looking at them You’re addressing them. Personally it’s the same reason why. TV News will put the teleprompter glass in front of the camera. Laura so they are always looking into the camera that’s how they make connections with their viewers. Same thing in a group video chat. That’s how you build trust is to look somebody in the eye. We give the same advice when when you’re doing a maybe a linked in profile photograph. Is that you know you shouldn’t be having sunglasses on are looking off into the distance or whatever. Yeah so the group video chat. What kind of a variation of that that we might go into here is the sixth one and that is using the chat in sight of some sort of social network? Or Gosh. I’ve seen people. We’ll do this actually in gaming right they’ll be in a game with a group of players in there’s a chat going on and you know you’ll have some time there to say. Yeah I’m an engineer with Intel or whatever her and I’ve had people actually get interviews through a gaming chat fantastic point we think about the chat functions within facebook or linked tin or even the snapchat. And all these other the Grande Ecole a typical social media stuff. We don’t think of in this case gaming chat chat as a networking opportunity. But anytime you’re talking to someone you don’t know well even the Times you are talking to someone you do know well. These are opportunities for you food. If this subject comes up organically to start talking about things that matter in your career it’s another way to make a connection that you wouldn’t have had otherwise. Don’t past these things up. Keep the conversation topical based on whatever it is that brought you together. Allow people to know who you are how you want to move your career because you never know who’s going to be in a position to help each one of these social platforms.

00:15:04 – 00:20:03

Have some some way for you to put a status update or Lincoln has headlined headlines is just to see what you’re all about and on these gaming platforms. I know they have that too much like skype where you can type in. Hey what’s on your mind right now. It’s just a really really short blurb and that’s a great space to put in you know Looking for great engineering jobs in semiconductor manufacturing or wherever or changing the world one when candidate A. Ty tryon if you’re in HR. There are all sorts of ways that we use connectivity to connect with other people in my work I talk about connected leadership which is something other than connectivity that plays a role within it the idea of making connections with people all for the greater good that will have. It’s place what we’re talking about here is with connectivity. Let that be a tool for you to make connections with people that you wouldn’t necessarily have made that conversation really begin. don’t limit yourself to just linked in just facebook. Whatever that might happy? Don’t go into the danger of making it difficult on somebody else and once they say. Hey can you just send me a text message or can you call me. Use the method. They want you to you. Because then you actually get the networking done. Yes and so. Don’t use that as a dangerous excuse not to network because Oh I don’t know how to text message pige or oh. I don’t know how to do a video chat or oh I don’t have a Webcam. I would also challenge you. Don’t use the excuse. Oh I’m not comfortable. We don’t learn anything thing if we stay in our comfort zone. The learning happens when we’re outside of our comfort zone so if there is a platform or technology that you’re not necessarily comfortable with I would I’d say move yourself to get comfortable with a find out more about it and how it can be helpful to that brings us to the seventh way to network and that’s email now. A lot of people people will be completely comfortable with email. And I send a lot of email you probably do. Two or and networking rubs in the networking world. Is You actually have to have a dialogue with another person. Just sending an email is not networking. It is not dialogue. It is the way we can make networking happen. How do we set it up? Why would we definitely recommend that people send messages if you’re going to connect on Lincoln and don’t just connect send a message as to why because otherwise and why would they care and it’s not that they shouldn’t care is that sometimes you need to tell the email will work in a similar function? It will provide the context or the reason reason behind making that connection. And hopefully you’ll be able to set up something in person or at least a phone call. That should be the goal. The email in and of itself has not networking. It’s the the tool we used to start at. We’re looking for a back and forth. Yes in on the topic of Hey. I’M GONNA send a standard connection request on lengthen. And and maybe they don’t care. Do I want a group of people in my network that don’t care I don’t know if auto collector of connections right I am a collector of connected people. Meaning I want people. Will that will respond when I say a message so if I do get one of the great perspective one of those little boilerplate. Hey I want to join your network things right I send a message back and my only litmus test is there you have to respond. And that’s how I accept it. It’s do the same thing I have in fact we’ve talked about this in. I think doc in the anatomy of a networking conversation about those who only connect with those that they have spoken with while. I am a little freer about connecting with people. I totally understand that comes from if you have not met me in person. Why would I list you as a connection while I may not follow that same role? It’s certainly understandable. So that’s where the e mail comes in. How do we set up that in person discussion and you have to give them reasons to do so? Email L. is a fantastic tool. It’s easy just. Don’t hide behind it as what we’re saying so that’s the seventh way is through email the eighth way which is actually becoming. I think more more prevalent to be honest is through text messages or or SMS. And I see a lot of people doing this. Many different ways but traditionally. That’s just a the standard text message. The one thing I really appreciate when someone wants to network with me via text messages when they asked me if that’s okay they don’t assume assume by sending me a text message they ask me in advance. Is it okay if I send you a text message do you network via text messaging. I always say yes because has has actually the easiest way to get a hold of me during the day. It’s often difficult for me to take calls because I’m either with clients. I am conducting training. Whatever that might look like so? I can’t always take the call. Not everyone likes to leave a voicemail messages which is unfortunate because I always respond to voicemail text message. You’re sure to get me even if I can’t respond right away but ask me I.

00:20:03 – 00:25:02

I just send people text messages. I assume that they want them. Maybe hang on Scott. Is it okay. Did I send you a okay. Well you’re you also have the advantage of having a role with your clients. There is already an expectation of wanting one thing that kind of communication in the moment from your perspective. I think that makes a lot of sense. I’m coming at it from from inside an HR world. Those kinds of relationships are a little different just by nature when people ask me. Is it okay to send me. A text. Message is showing respect because not everyone is comfortable using their personal cell l. phone not everyone wants to blur the lines between their professional conversations and their personal conversations if there are different perspectives. On how to do this I wanna be courteous enough to acknowledge a potential difference and then let them decide whether or not that’s good for them. I rarely get a no when I ask I. I liked text message because I get the message right away. With a voicemail message it’s going to be a possibly a little bit of time before I can then call in especially if time facilitating training or they didn’t give you an explicit reason why they were calling just call me back. That’s OK somebody I already know. Yeah give me a reason to call back. If you’re leaving me. The voice mail. Yeah please leave me a message. Text messages saying. Tell me why I should call back. It doesn’t have to go to great length. Give me a reason. That’s that’s the eighth way which is text. Message the ninth way is old school. It’s through the mail and I have seen people exchange correspondence through the mail. And I I would encourage everybody listening to this podcast to at least consider putting some form of networking by mail into their repertoire. Because not many people are doing it anymore that Mary view that means it’s not a noisy channel like email in fact I have found over time those little blurbs and we’re not talking marketing postcards I’m I think about some of the things that I get from insurance agents or realtors or a number of different businesses dentists chiropractors we get those those mailers all the time and we don’t really pay much attention to the molest that serves a need that we happen to have and we don’t already have a practitioner that we that we turn turn to what I’m talking about is a Little Card or short handwritten note that expresses something that is of value to me. Whatever that might be the idea that I got a handwritten note that someone else took the time and was courteous enough to go to that effort I am paying attention? Listen I don’t see enough of it anymore and personally I respond very well to it. It does mean that the other person needs to find out what my addresses I may be expecting affecting after they ask me. So what’s Your ailing address. And that’s okay because it happens so rarely and I think it’s important if you can capture a cell phone number in address just put it in your database. Can part of your process is to gather that information. I’ve also seen people use mail as promotional tool like that just to send. Hey I was thinking of you. I saw this article and they’ve actually cut write an article out of a magazine and thrown into printed it. Yeah they’re reading it online yet. Most publications nations allow you to print their articles. So yeah that is again. You’re being thoughtful. You’re going to your own effort spending your own time thinking about someone else that always and I realize you should never say never always. That always does well. That’s the nine ways that you can get the networking done i. I think it’s important to remember. What do you really need to make that conversation successful? And what that might mean first of all is that you have to use more another one of these methods to get to a person if there’s somebody that’s worthy of you actually pursuing that person as a networking connection because you feel it would be valuable to them and to you. But they don’t respond to a phone call or they don’t respond to your Lincoln message or an email right. You just keep going down the list of communication methods. Don’t let taken a response. Let’s now don’t do all those within a five minute period or or even a week’s period. Yeah yeah spread them out over time and seriously. No one is going to mind if you you are gently persistent. If you’re stalking them. That’s going to be a problem if you are pushing. That’s going to be a problem in most cases but if you’re if you do it gently the and thoughtfully especially if you’re talking to other people within their organization or whatever that looks like to find out what style do have what they appreciate your far more likely to land where you want to really. This is about developing trust if you’re pushy. They’re not going to trust you. People talk about. They don’t want to be sold. That heavy-handed sales sales type of demeanor doesn’t usually land very well if you have a good communication going on where both parties are being frank and open in an honest and thoughtful of the other person.

00:25:02 – 00:27:56

That’s where the real meat comes in. I’m just open. I’m interested in an open channel and the reason I said that way is if one method method isn’t working you’re right. We need to accommodate that person and find the why that is so that we can actually open a channel of communication and that’s where the next component comes in. And that’s it’s dialogue if you have an open communication channel great but if you’re the only one there or if you’re dominating conversation yeah just be conscious that this should be a dialogue back back and forth two way communication. Yes and then we were talking before we started about the concept of mutual benefit. You really need to make sure that you’re focused on what value you bring the other person. Not just what they can do for you and we also WanNa make the distinction that it’s not just saying saying what can I do for you. It’s really following through on that. How are you going to follow through on providing value to this other person? Even if that’s not obvious you could ask them. What can I do and they say? Well I don’t really know. Keep that part of the conversation going so that they understand after more than one conversation. Sation with you that you are truly interested in helping them if you can. You’re going to open those channels and built the trust mindset we talk about this a lot mindset any component opponent of your career journey navigating. These waters is going to require a certain kind of mindset. Can’t be overstated. Being mindful of the bigger picture is going to help you remember that nobody gets to success all by themselves. They have had people helping them along the way. So that’s what we’re looking for. What do those relationships look like? How can the more of them? How do I keep the Communication Channel Open and active and continuing the dialogue? I hope you got something out of this particular session today. Eh You can get all the show notes and resources and the Anatomy of networking conversation on our website at Jobseeker’s radio DOT COM forward slash zero seven zero and again that bravery source is the anatomy of never came conversation e book that puts the ideas together in one place to to help you figure out how this is going to work for you. Thank you for joining us for this episode of Job Seekers Radio We know that your investment of time and attention you might be on the treadmill color doing some kind of workout or whatever maybe in the car right we understand. It’s greatly appreciated to have your attention during this time. We would appreciate it if you head over to itunes. If that’s your platform that form and go ahead and leave us a rate and review. Yeah we really liked the feedback. Ask questions there too. We do an occasional podcast where we we are answering your questions so if you have any send them our way. We’ll put that in a future. podcasts Lime Andrew and Scott in the words of John shed a ship ship in harbor is safe but that is not what ships are built for. Thanks everybody by by.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Keeping and staying on track with your search whether you are working or not requires some momentum. Expand and grow your career with networking – continually.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Keeping a perpetual mindset without judgement.
• Realistic expectations regarding loyalty to your organization and yourself.
• Level of physical and mental health that relates to working in the right role and culture.
• Being open to any opportunity with objectivity. 
• Stay current with industry, experience, resume, LinkedIn profile, and your results measurable.
• Skill-up your experience with training, certifications, and development opportunities.
• Getting and being a mentor for brainstorming possibilities and maintaining accountability.

Resources (including affiliate links)

Mondays Are The Riskiest Days 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:01 – 00:05:09

local job seekers radio. I’m Andrew and I’m Scott. This production is meant to provide meaningful support to find great careers. Faster whether you’re working king or not. Hey Scott did you know that today’s episode is actually brought to you by the Anatomy of networking conversation. Really tell me more. It’s actually an e book it can be found on our website at job seekers radio DOT com. That’s amazing in today’s episode. We’re talking about maintaining momentum in your career earlier. This is something that we talk about networking because a lot of times people get into jobs on this has been true of myself. We get into jobs and then we think okay you know live. I got the job I wanted. There’s lots to learn here. I I have so much to do. I’m busy and we don’t network anymore. And so all those connections actions just sort of die on the vine and what. I’ve had to find out. The hard way is often in our careers. The the only way to truly maintain momentum is to keep that networking going not all of the connections. That I make for my future are going to be made in in the company. I’m working for right now so if I want a career that’s going to expand and grow and whether that’s moving up the food chain or that I’m I’m broadening the scope of what I’m doing. It’s a lot easier to keep that momentum going if I don’t stop networking we advocate that you take perpetually looking mindset mindset perpetually having your eyes open looking around always looking for the next opportunity not did you have to take it not that you have to find the perfect perfect situation. Although seeking is the fun the way to keep that as fun is to stop judging what you’re coming up in front of you know whatever is happening. The different opportunities thirties that present themselves. If we’re thinking oh well that one doesn’t look good enough for that one doesn’t fit well enough. We’re actually limiting ourselves to the possibilities. Instead of we stop judging and we really look at what could bring us some enjoyment. Were far more likely to find them. Enjoyment loyalty is something that many companies talk about in many job seekers or employees look for does it really exist. It does in my point of view. It does but you have to be realistic. Mystic about how that actually happens because the company will be loyal to you until they don’t need you anymore can’t afford you anymore and for are and I’m using air quotes business reasons they let you go or they reorganize and lay people off whatever that might look like in the specifics loyalty he is great as long as it makes sense and too often I talked to people who feel. They have shown their loyalty to their company. And it hasn’t hasn’t been returned and I would venture to say and I haven’t yet talked to any business owner or executive. Who would disagree with me that you are are? You should be loyal to yourself. I the company may or may not be able to show loyalty the way they talk about it and rather than spending your energy judging that be loyal to yourself yourself first. You’re the only person responsible to cover your needs. What does that look like loyalty to myself? I look at it in terms of active participation meaning. I’m actively participate in my career my satisfaction what I love about my job and see what I can do to do you more that than I am to say. Oh that’s somebody else’s responsibility. No I completely agree. There’s also the idea that the it kind of loyalty that I get my company should be reciprocated and without judging that concept I would ask that person coaching question is that true. Tell me about that. Why why do you think that way? What is what does that? Look like what are you expecting from that because whether you are delighted or disappointed by something as really defined why does the gap between what you expect it and what was delivered so if that kind of loyalty ends up being a certain expectation where you get disappointed. It’s because you had an expectation that wasn’t delivered. What was your expectations realistic? Is it even appropriate. Because if your expectation is is that they will be loyal to you in a very dispassionate way and they end up being more loyal to you as some companies that we saw during the great recession where they did everything and they could to avoid laying off people that meant they had to forego other things. If that’s the kind of loyalty that that you have experienced and yet your expectation was less personalized is then you would be delighted by that company. It’s always the gap between what you expect and what’s delivered. So are your expectations accurate. There’s there’s plenty of research out there. Studies on job place satisfaction. And how when your expectations are not met that you actually have higher anxiety Zaidi more stress it impacts you medically speaking in fact one of the people that I work closely with had a stroke on a Monday morning at the office.

00:05:09 – 00:10:01

And so if you think about it what would have caused that. While strokes kept many different courses. The only reason I bring that up is because what did they say. Most suicides happen on Monday Mornings Mornings most heart attacks happen on Monday mornings to the list goes to the list is extensive and pretty exhaustive. That means if I’m not an active participant in my future future and I feel the company is GonNa provide me. Loyalty is going to impact me physically. Yeah it’s GonNa set you up for something you really don’t want to deal with I. I completely agree as a result. I think if we are able to keep our eyes and ears open at all times for any opportunity that comes up and I’m not saying any opportunity for job. I’m talking about the opportunities to talk. Talk to someone you to talk about. Something really are passionate about opportunities that may advance your skill set in a new direction that still job related but but is going going to give you a different set of experiences and therefore the knowledge that comes with them being open to those can really offset the negatives that were suggesting here here Having that realistic idea of loyalty I think is important to start. Opportunities come in many different forms opportunities may be presented to to you. I’m the type of person that I’m not ever going to not listen. I’m happy to listen. I’m having to keep my eyes open and listen to opportunity whether or not I go go depends on the opportunity. However I’ve seen people do this Scott where they’re like okay? I’m happy in my role. I’m doing really well. I’m not actively managed my career but I’m I’m satisfied satisfied right and so I don’t WanNa put the effort in to keeping momentum. I don’t need it and then an opportunity comes along and they say no I’m not interested. That’s fine okay. So you bring up a point. I just had a conversation with a colleague recently. Who is telling me her experience? In her current job she had been working for a competitor and very successfully successfully with that competitor for some time and she had worked with this guy who ended up being the chief retail officer for her current company. Who who contacted her at that time saying hey I got an opportunity? I’d like to work for me and I won’t go into the details of why that surprised her but just suffice it to say who’s at a much much higher level and so it surprised her that she would even be on his radar right. She turned him down because she perceived her current situation as being everything she wanted later on. He contacted her again and again she said no what was really interesting. was that then. She had found with a some change in the hierarchy where she used to be. She found herself in a very different situation. Something went south I don’t remember the specifics. But she did not have a positive experience and fifteen minutes after getting off the phone with someone about the the negative experience she got a call from this guy again so this time she was open to the possibilities and what we talked about was the fact that had she been open to it in the first place she probably would have moved faster and further in her career. Had she at least had the conversation in the beginning rather than waiting for the first try. Now it’s my observation that people don’t normally get three chances. She did art. Yeah she did you get one chance she did did it and she is now a VP for her company. Had she not said no the first time when could she have been VP. I mean it’s it’s anybody’s guess but but it. It was just a really interesting story that she got three chances and she took it up on the third one because her current situation had changed. I really value the advice of being open to who at least half the conversations to see what you might be missing even if you think it’s a company you don’t WanNa work for. I’ve had a lot of those. Two people identified a company right. They sit there in. This is business or some industry and our for anybody. As long as it’s not that one and then that one calls and not interested I would say go talk to him anyway. You have nothing to lose the time and maybe a little gasoline. If you have to drive things change they hire new people. New Leadership Company goes a new direction. What you heard in the past may not be the current reality the other the thing we encourage you to do is really evaluate your experience and trends in your industry that might require some analysis in evaluating yourself? You could take assessments. That means cataloging your experiences actively I encourage people to put their resume on some kind of rotation in their calendar. Every three to six months she should probably refresh shit. That’s a great great idea and then say okay. What have they done the last three to six months that extra incorporate in my resume? Even as you’re going through it start documenting project you’re working on was the pre. What was the action? What was the outcome? How do we measure success while that also gives you the perspective of coming back to see what you might be able to pare down to? It may be that. I put something on my resume that I felt very strongly about six months ago. But as I’m reading it now I realized that from a bigger picture a perspective that really.

00:10:01 – 00:15:01

Isn’t that important space on a resume needs to be used very wisely so I love the idea of coming back to periodically early and regularly. There’s two things I recommend on resume side of things even though I’m not an advocate per se of resume back right as an effective tool but it is is a great place to catalog things and yes you can have kind of like a core master resume. That has everything on it which I actually like. I think a good so that’s great then I can so much easier to carve away exactly to add back in up so that do if you’ve got an exhaustive resume takeout anything if you’re making an application location. Take out anything that doesn’t apply to the job that you’re doing right now because if you give a four page resume for anything other than executive position it probably is not could be read by. That’s neither here nor there. Well this also means staying in touch with what’s happening in the industry. What the trends? What are the job title? Whereas the salary expectation where the salaries stories going which skills required to be successful in the future and kind of mapping that out so that you know am I on the right path might not on the right path? In which half half do I really WanNa take especially if you’re in a job type or an industry where trends are really talking about the future of the kind of working doing if you’re not moving in that direction that may become a liability for you so whether or not that need certifications or some other kind of short term training I would would say be on top of that of course as you go through and start cataloging some of these experiences you identify these trends. Yes some decision to make on. What sort of of experiences do I need to gain? Does my current company offered that or is there another role inside the company. I should be looking at or should I look outside sure. And if I can’t get hit that information or that train or that experience I need to get some training from somewhere. Yes and a lot of companies offer tuition reimbursement whether that’s an accredited college or certification through local industry groups. Whatever that might look look like a lot of companies actually offer that even and beyond the scope of your specific job right now so look into that as a benefit if you are employed looking at the the benefits that are available to you through your employer employer that brings up the idea of staying engaged with some leaders your industry or even in your career in a mentor capacity or even even becoming a mentor to somebody else can be helpful because as you grow in your career some of the things that might happen to you to maintain momentum is the leadership shit trajectory? It’s not always that someone can go their entire career and grow with momentum as an individual contributor even if you’re thinking of of moving up with an accompanying remember that there are fewer top jobs than there are lower level jobs and so those opportunities come fewer and further between the idea of of continuing on with a mentor. Means that you’re always talking about ways that you can develop regardless of your position and being a mentor puts you in that position nation of helping someone else so that they see you as the leader and as those conversations continue throughout your career. You’re helping to advance your career. I I cannot say enough about staying active with your mentor. Even if that’s just a quarterly e mail to say I’m thinking about you just reestablishing the contact helps you remember the things that you talked about. Actively managing those relationships is actually an exercise in networking. And it’s an opportunity for you to incubate those relationships over time to either decide that they’re effective for you or not effective for you as you go through in your career you’re probably GonNa have different people bowl. Come into and out of your professional life and I think about one of my mentor stat. I actually have not kept in touch with as much as I’d like to. And and one of the ideas that you and I talked about before we started is the idea of brainstorming and I was thinking as we started this recording about what kind brainstorming I could do with my mentor Dennis and and what that might look like and actually as soon as we’re done I’m going to send him off an email to say. Hey I was thinking about you because he would be the perfect person right now for me in my own career to brainstorm ideas on how I want to set up my future. Sure because he’s further down the road than I am and I. I admire him greatly. The idea that I am value to the people that I currently work for are can be augmented by this brainstorming conversation that I can have with my mentor by the same token as I give of my my own time time to others who asked me for my advice that also brings me benefit in from a different perspective. This is precisely why we even do breakfast. Club or even this podcast odd cast is to mentor.

00:15:01 – 00:20:17

People in that capacity to help them gain momentum or maintain momentum in their career search. And that’s why we do what we do. It’s a labor of love really. I also really value your perspective on personal accountability and we talk about that in our breakfast club and it really is. How do we put that into practice? Because I will remind you what you tell me at breakfast club in terms of your networking commitment when I remind you of that at our next meeting. That’s not about me. That’s it’s about whether or not you’re holding yourself accountable. Because what I think doesn’t matter it isn’t about me on any level but I want you to know that I pay attention so you know so that if you hold yourself. Accountable that sense of accomplishment comes is just a reminder really on an accountability. I like accountability because I liked liked to know that somebody else is watching. That’s all I mean. I don’t need somebody to twist my arm to put me in handcuffs. Sure but I also think well. Let’s not go there. I also also think about going to the gym if I go with a workout partner. I’m far more likely to show up. Then if I don’t have a workout partner in it’s just left to my own sense of my own motivation because there are moorings that I really don’t want to go to the gym. So accountability is something that are mentors. Our friends our networking contacts can all help us with breath and there is nothing wrong with saying hold me accountable ask for it. Yes thank you Sir may have another and you know we kind of danced around it a little bit here but every every person that I know that has had good momentum in their career is always adding tools to their kit or clubs to the golf bag or whatever you WANNA call it. They’re always always working on something. They’re always learning new things or gaining new education. I have a colleague right now. She’s getting certified in instructional design. And what’s interesting. Testing is as part of our. We have a weekly meeting in our group that She’s talking about the things that she’s learning and I’m realizing not only what I benefit benefit from getting the same certification but she’s giving us the resources right now that she’s already I can start working on things from a perspective that and I didn’t know or coming back to a reminder of some of the principles that I received training on years ago in sort of forgotten it is a really beneficial. Show thing to get back into the learning mode. And that’s something we see top executives being quoted on is that they never stop learning. I think that’s good advice for for all of us. It’s a key skill. On today’s marketplace insurance is having the versatility and the capacity to learn new things and execute on that learning and and what I took away from what you just said is the value of having a peer mentor. Someone that’s in the same space as you but maybe has done something a little differently than I can learn from it. Apply on my job today. This is usually beneficial. If you’re lucky enough to work in an organization that that promotes learning take advantage of of it. I’d sort of kicked myself. I’ve had opportunities to get education with company and is it happens. I was in a job that I wasn’t really enjoying. I loved the work. Benign -sarily people. I was doing it for so I didn’t take advantage of that and that just held me back. It didn’t hold them back. Try to get the judgment out of it. I would say don’t pursue things I just on your own. That don’t interest you. I think that can lead to some self-defeating behaviors thoughts as well. Follow the things that charge you wab that that keep you motivated. Because that’s one way you’re going to keep your momentum if you’re in a job where they ask you to get certified or they give you an opportunity to do something that maybe maybe you wouldn’t have been interested in Jones. Judge that one either because it may be that that spark said new interest at you hadn’t considered and you never know where that’s GonNa take you. It’s it’s always important to pause and just consider what they’re offering you because in many of the organizations I’ve been with training was just done because it was something that had to be done for the business and that’s fine if you have a choice and you can take it or not take it then you have an opportunity then to make an evaluation of what that is is. It’s something that I wish I would have proactively done in many of the organizations I had been to say okay. Let me look at the menu if you’ve got one. Many companies don’t have menu of course are draining and I’d like to go this direction. And how can I make that happen. Build more proactive in the types of education that I pursued and the other thing is we can start. Start doing that at any time so any of our listeners that are thinking oh well you know it’s too late for me no it isn’t. It’s never too late to learn. You just have to be interested in doing it. And curiosity is is probably probably the thing that’s going to keep your momentum more than any other concept that you you face if you don’t have that menu from your company then there can be informal formal ways to learn and that’s based on what interests you and the choices you make it’s up to you. There’s hundreds of thousands of podcasts. Just like this one. Well well maybe no no ours is pretty special education available today for free in podcast world you can and you know come in and download things on leadership or finance or investing or whatever.

00:20:17 – 00:25:03

Whatever there’s always something to be learned from somebody body else you might even decide to have your own podcast? I also think about audio books for those who prefer the listening mode of learning. If you’RE GONNA Ford audiobooks books. That’s great. Read them or listen to them. If you can’t your library may have audio books that you can check out. That’s really helpful for those of us who don’t have a lot of extra time to read at home. We can still get that reading done by going to the library. What does that take? I’m GonNa say the outside. Maybe thirty minutes of a your day. Go to the library. Check out an audio book and by the time you have to turn that back in you probably will have been able to finish it. Don’t discount the various opportunities that are available to you if you look at what schooling is schooling is paying somebody else to tell you to read a book and and to write a paper or take a test to validate whether or not what they told you to read in the book or what they said in lecture is really what they said and to validate that you’ve been paying attention when it comes to just reading a book Know someone who was talking to a psychologist at one point and and he was talking about how he ran all these self help books and various things on psychology and then the psychologist that he was talking to suggested that he probably had read as much as he would have had he been pursuing a degree on it. Self Education is absolutely option that we have. There are a number of workshops that are available to us either paid or perhaps through your local chamber of Commerce or or some other organization may be free of charge to members or are two people in the communities. There are all sorts of ideas that perhaps you haven’t known about because you haven’t known to look that brings up the idea of webinars actually. It’s a trend friend workshops if they’re an onsite thing or something that have to be scheduled and also all the time you have to go to this place. webinars are becoming very. Are you bic witness. Today you can get a lot of great training over the Internet and some of those webinars actually could lead to certifications so if it’s a paid webinar and and they have a series check it out whether or not that organization offers his certificate of completion for doing a series of webinars. You’d be surprised what’s out there there’s a large catalog also of online courses that you could take whether those are paid or free or something like core Sarah. I think it’s called where there’s universities providing in classes fro funding source. Yeah it’s amazing. How much content is now available for you to take advantage of? That doesn’t cost anything. And don’t forget to look at those disorganization no charge for some of it. Sometimes they offer things for free. So don’t pass those up and see if your company has an agreement with an organization like lengthen right access to Lincoln learning or whatever right. I know we get access to Lincoln learning through the library for free. So there’s a lot of ways you know there’s so many resources available sometimes. Sometimes it just comes down to what topic do I really want to know about so that I don’t get overwhelmed trying to learn too much at once and as your networking with people they may know of some of these opportunities already. So be sure that that’s part of your conversations. I think about the phrase that I heard years ago. I don’t think about what I don’t think about makes perfect sense as I’m having these conversations others can give me the idea. Maybe I’d forgotten that the library would would have those opportunities whatever it is. Keep talking to people. If you want to keep the momentum wintom going than networking is going to help along with everything else that we’ve mentioned. I had another client a friend of mine actually who was looking to make career transition and he relied on somebody in the industry to tell him you know you should get a certification in aws so he went and did that and got the certification and now. Oh He’s out doing the job search. Sometimes you’re right go to the people who are in the industry you WANNA be in to determine what is current relevant and in demand now so that I can get that training now to be ready to hit the ground running from the beginning. That’s why we’ve actually created the Anatomy of networking conversation. What’s up well? It’s actually an e book that helps walk you through step by step including companion audio for those of you. Who liked to listen to us on this wonderful podcast that’s Okay through the idea of how do I now work. That’s something that isn’t really common for a lot of people to understand and we break it down for you for steps. That’s that’s fantastic easy steps and it’s a free resource so if you go to job seekers radio DOT com slash zero six nine. You’ll find the show no notes and the anatomy of a networking conversation.

00:25:03 – 00:25:44

e-book all right. They’re free to download. We encourage you to go there and leave some comments as well on this episode Please give me a little comment box at the bottom if you have any questions. There’s a contact US box there too. It’s just a wonderful website. You should spend lots of time time. Well thanks everybody for being here. We appreciate you. Investing your time and attention in job seekers radio head over to itunes and subscribe to get future episodes and while there you can also give out rate and review and give us your feedback there too. I’m Andrew and I’m Scott in the words of Sir Edmund Hillary. No one remembers as you climbed Mount Everest the second time. Thanks everybody bye bye.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Urgent needs for income can cloud the judgement relating to company cultural fit.

Scott and Andrew discuss strategies for working through the process of recovering from desperate needs for employment.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• How to stay true to your values in challenging situations.
• Taking inventory of your work styles and matching with chosen employers.
• Focusing your mindset on your strengths to perform well on interviews.
• Building the right branding presentation.
• Identifying gap jobs.
• Creatively managing finances. 
• Expanding the gap between virtue and despair. 
• The type of people to surround yourself with.

Resources (including affiliate links)

Resilience EpisodesThe Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment063 The Number One Secret to Job Satisfaction 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:02 – 00:05:05

welcome to job seekers radio. I’m Andrew and I’m Scott. This production is meant to provide you the listener meaningful support to fight great careers careers faster. And that’s whether you are working or not by the way. This episode today is brought to you by the anatomy of a networking conversation. It’s an e-book and a free resource that you can download at job seekers radio DOT COM in today’s show we talk about balance balancing cultural fit and the urgent need for for income not uncommon very common. Both of us have had situations where income was necessary very very interesting. I think that’s true of most Savar. Listening to income is necessary I. It’s just the urgency. That may or may not be really a driver for some people. I think one person that I know who decided to move to Portland for whatever reason he was between jobs and he and his family decided to move all the way across the country to settle here in Portland. Income was not really eighty. Something he needed urgently he had enough in savings that he knew he’d be safe for while still it doesn’t last forever. He wasn’t in the one percent that isn’t able to spend and all the money’s making on interest so you know a job is needed but then was also talking to someone recently who is badly under employed at the moment and she she is running out of money and so the the the need to get a full time job where she’s really supporting herself is urgent and she’s finding herself looking at potential jobs that are beneath her skill. Set that pay less than what she’s looking for and there’s a lot of other stuff going on that really digs into herself confidence. So that’s part of what is driving this discussion today. Whether you’re employed or unemployed the need for money Israel your many people if you have obligations and you’re staring down at your bank account balance and you need a job then take the next job. Right comes along and there’s really nothing wrong with that. I realized that nobody wants to take a job. They’re not going to enjoy and I think that’s healthy perspective. In fact I think that’s healthier here than those who say. Oh well I can just work any job. And they don’t really care they they may not care as an employer. I want them to care. How do you balance that? I really think that this this conversation begins with knowing what you want in the first place. What do you want an employer and even if you are feeling that urgency that you just have to get a job Bob? It’s critical that you spend the time to decide. What is it that you actually want to many times? I hear people talk about. Oh well you know I. I have transferable skills I can work for anyone. It’s not industry specific. And so why are they hiring me and when I asked him well what do you want to an employer that well any employer is fine as long as an. I’m thinking wait a minute. They haven’t done any research they haven’t made. They haven’t documented any of their desires. How then can can you express your enthusiasm for job that you’re implying for if you don’t even know what you want? Take that time. What is it about the employers that you’ve enjoyed enjoyed that help? You enjoy them and even if you’re the type where when you start you love the company and when you leave you hate the company every single time and. I know that it doesn’t always happen that way. Let’s just say that’s worse case scenario. What were the things that you enjoy when you began those kinds of cultural fit type of concepts that that you need to be aware of? Why did it work for you? How did that fit your own style? How did that fit your sense of pace at work? It was doing the kind kind of thing that helps you feel like hey I want to get up in the morning and do that some more today. If you are aware of those now you can start matching the companies ace who profess those sorts of cultural concepts and that is where this conversation begins. You’ve got to do that research. It gives you focus. It does and if you are just going to be taking the next job that comes along shouldn’t it at minimum be ones that you’ve chosen not ones that were forced on you and if you look at the menu order from the menu. You’re the only one to blame. If you get indigestion especially if you know when you eat that thing you’re gonNA be getting it. I mean here’s the thing thing I’ve seen this so many times is that you choose which opportunities you go after even if you need work now that’s beneath you you still have choices and even though there’s probably millions of job postings and you’re just gonNa hit them shotgun which I don’t recommend it is probably better to identify the kinds of the things that you stand for. I heard it said once to where you stand were will ultimately determine where you sit and where you sit will ultimately determine where you stand and I I always take that with me as if I don’t stand for something that I’m going to sit where I don’t WanNa sit. It’s interesting to me because I had this conversation with someone with people who really currently need work and they feel like I can’t pick and choose.

00:05:05 – 00:10:13

I have to take the next job that comes along. Well you are picking and choosing using if you weren’t you would probably get that job whether it’s at the local grocery store or some other minimum wage entry level position there are. Are those jobs out there. Picking fruit in the fields. Whatever we don’t take those jobs because we’re judging them right so you really are making a choice? Let’s not not beat ourselves up over that there’s a good reason why we’re making these choices. You have your reasons stick with them so much healthier position to be in. If you’re we’re looking at a need it is an urgent need. You need to take the first job coming along. Then it’s also your choice to look at what that job can do for you. That is positive positive. This is not your career goal to take a receptionist position. It’s not your career goal to work at a McDonald’s so what if you can find good good things about that role that’s going to bring the income. It can be a gap job the job. You’re you take. That will buy time to get the job you really want. They’re still something positive. You can get from that and I’ve been there. I’ve taken those kinds of jobs and the only time I ever left a job like that because because it wasn’t something that I could do when that something was physical when I physically could not sustain the effort needed and this was just a an additional job job that I was doing for a holiday income and physically just couldn’t keep up the way I could have twenty five years ago with something else I learned from it. That was very positive. Take the time you need aide understand what income you need. What is this all going to look like? Then look at. The positive is that it can bring whether you think you’re above this job or not. Don’t overlook the value of actually presenting your unique bestself to the marketplace. Because what you’re thinking what. You’re feeling the emotions that you have if if you’re presenting that to the marketplace I’ll take any job that comes along then it’s harder for me as a coach or even Lawyer end or anybody to help you as a person who’s I dunno fairly well connected in Portland. I’m not GonNa Brag about it but I know a lot of people and I’m happy to introduce people cool to anybody and you see this at breakfast club. We asked people what. What is it that you want to do that? We’re not there to uncover their their shame or or to put them in a position in of despair. It’s help them connect with what they want. It was really interesting and one of the breakfast club meetings. There was someone there who was really feeling pulling down because she hadn’t gotten a good job in a long time and she was coming to this group to to get some new ideas and I think you were the one that asked her the question. What what she wanted to do and she started to talk very specifically about the things that she really enjoyed doing and she was a different person in that moment she showed up completely completely differently with confidence and with a certain eloquence that if she could bring that into every conversation she ever had? I am convinced vinced that she would have a job at this point or she would have found one very quickly she was in this mode of. I need a job. I need a job any job. And and we couldn’t seem to get to that sense of accomplishment and self confidence in the same way after that one moment so to your point mindset is a lot so as we’re thinking of you know. Do I take this job. Well look at it for what it offers look at the benefits. Take the the gap job that you need. Don’t stop networking. Keep that part of your efforts going beyond this this job or career shift. Whatever that is too I totally give up my career? Well not if you feel that strongly about it may need to take a gap job keep networking not to talk about finances or anything but you could always find ways to lower your cost of living. I know I’ve done it. I’ve gotten rid of automobiles that it had large payments you know. Let’s not overlook that side either. Is that if you’re in a position where you know you’re burn rate is pretty high. You can always do things this in some fashion to reduce the burn rate of. Have a friend. Actually going through this right now. Who is car just broke down at repair? Costs are beyond what he can pay. So he’s in the process right now choosing whether or not to keep the car and he said to me that he could save almost a thousand dollars a month if he would give up the car a thousand dollars a month when you think about the gas repairs that he’s been putting in yeah. He said he’d he’d already put on a total over the last couple of years. Four thousand on his credit card took pay for the repairs on the car and unflagging. Well that’s a really hefty down payment. But of course you know you don’t know what what’s coming up and he doesn’t have a car payment right now with this car so okay grant that he could save nine hundred and something dollars a month if he just got rid of the car altogether and he he just moved into an apartment that is downtown.

00:10:13 – 00:15:30

He’s currently walking to work. He can walk to the grocery store. He can take public transit anywhere anywhere he needs to go. Why wouldn’t you now? I understand one of the responses to that question is while I have my independence when I have my car totally really get that. Do you need that independence or is that a preference because if it’s truly need then you need to make sure that you’re fulfilling. Oh filling that need but if it’s a preference what are all the advantages of choosing ticket rid of that car so now all of a sudden you totally changed your income companies just by turning the key on one thing and what you’ve done is you’ve created distance between virtue and despair and you’ve kind of separated these two things where it’s like. Hey all I’ve seen is despair now pushing that away and I’ve seen virtue I’m seeing possibility. I’m seeing potential. I’m seeing hope and just these little things that you’d never the thought would have that advantage to your. I call it the spirit. Whatever you WANNA call it to your soul I mean each has one hopefully? Why are you looking at me that way? No I completely agree. And it’s giving yourself permission to make the choices this you need to make without losing the hope that comes through that networking looking through different lenses. And maybe it is taking a lower job. You’re giving yourself permission. Just do what you need to right now so things don’t become a problem because you’re boring them and still we come back to that idea. How do I balance cultural fit to the need for income when you are doing the things that bring you that sense of hope you are far more likely to recognize the companies that are going to give view the things you need? Because you’re in that head space right now and as you said before if instead you’re going to the interview table with I need this job I’m desperate you’re going to show show up differently. They’re going to read you differently and having gone through interviews as long as I have. I’m telling you you will show up differently. I will notice. I may not put my finger on so you are not going to show up as your best most confident. Self keep looking keep applying keep networking. Yes it’s a grind we get at and and you can actually listen to all of the job seekers radio episodes and you’re likely to get a little bit of understanding of how to build some resilience and how to use some of these tools talking about. If you haven’t done so already I would go back and listen to some of those episodes that we have where we highlight resilience. And how are we build the muscle. Stay with it because it it can be this escape right. We’re just trying to escape hopelessness or even helplessness or despair. Despair over time. Your standards of what quality job is for you. We’ll go down as your needs for income increase and that means you’re gonNA sacrifice your principles and I see that happening. I know I’ve been in those types of situations myself. There’s also something to be said I can keep my standards. Sanders had can keep the things that I find. Most important to me I can keep those at the forefront while still may be taking that gap job or maybe taking a you know getting into the company I wanted but not really at the level or in the position that I wanted to. And that curtails my ability to get out and do as much networking Zygi ed or to do the kinds of have the kinds of conversations. I’ve enjoyed in the past what that does in my own decision making process then is to help me me. Focus on keeping the quality of those networking conversations. Maybe it takes more effort to find them at the Times that I’m able to do it and that’s okay right because I will keep my focus on what’s important to me despite having a gap job I’m still going to be able to talk to other people about what it is. That is important and to me. What drives me? And that is the part. That doesn’t change in terms of personal branding and having some kind of ability to talk about it effectively. It’s not uncommon. Common that many of our listeners can be their own worst critic and it just perpetuates disorientation or whatever you WanNa call it where we need to really latch onto something. The thing I would refer to as despair avoidance principles and. Maybe that’s maybe I just need to get out and exercise. Maybe I just need to do some different for its series of activities. I just saw this morning. That talked about how just getting out in nature makes people feel better at it helps their blood pressure sure. It helps their cognitive abilities. Just to take a walk through the woods if you have someplace where you can take that kind of getting out and doing something that feels feels good will help you far more than just grinding through online applications hour after hour you may think that’s counter intuitive in our experience pairing citizens we see the benefits of all the time whenever we’re talking to somebody who uses them it helps you maintain some sort of disciplined consistency resilience all those qualities that we talk about when we’re in a situation like now I think about the book the power of now and the focus on what is happening right this minute.

00:15:30 – 00:19:42

You can’t do anything about the past and you actually can’t do anything about the future. I laugh because of course we all plan for the future to some degree. The only thing you can actually do something in with is what’s happening right now. The question then in this book is is it really a problem if it’s a problem that’s what you deal with. It isn’t a problem now. You have choices that itself puts us in a different frame of mind that actually the hopelessness may not be so hopeless. Yeah is it really hopeless right and we actually did an episode not too long ago. How about the questions we ask ourselves and the quality of our questions are going to determine the quality of our outcomes and our perspectives? Ask yourself better questions it matters and yes ask you have not found it yet. You may not have found the perfect job yet. So don’t think you’re stuck where you are in the ear and a circumstance that can’t be changed and don’t ask people for for advice. Who Only give you platitudes? Oh that job is just around the corner. I find that to be incredibly frustrating. It’s patronizing instead had talked to the people who actually challenge you. Who ask you questions? Have you thought about this. Have you considered that and do everything you can to keep keep from saying. Oh Yeah I tried that but because you never know how it might change if you try it again. I tried that and maybe I did it wrong. That would be a much better response than Oh oh I tried that I. It doesn’t work or yes. I tried that before. And maybe there’s something I can do differently to make an adjustment to make an adjustment. Yeah never takes no. I know that you have choices. And those choices will suggest empowerment and when you feel empowered you will make better choices. Choose US decide. These are great words. Make sure that you’re doing everything you can to look at the choices that matter to you. Based on in this case cultural fed ahead but to find that define what that is determined the cultural fit is and then go look for. It’s not something that can be found always on the Internet and don’t think that a company that doesn’t you do what your past companies do are out of bounds. It could be very well that what you do is done in some fashion within the company that actually possesses the qualities that you are looking for look there first and talking about having some a habitual activities like exercise or walking. If you enjoy doing research you probably will really enjoy looking for those companies that fit your values that create that cultural fit. If you’re like like me where research is not necessarily my strongest suit. I have learned to enjoy that because now I get to find out about people because I’m not a process driven guy when I you can find out more about the people side of business. I actually am looking at this from a lens that excites me. That gives me energy so right there. It’s a different different point of view. A different mindset speaking of people and process. That’s why we created the Anatomy of networking conversation for those of you listening to this episode sewed. And you’re wondering what is this whole networking thing for jobs all about. We have a free resource for you. Available on our website. JOBSEEKER’S RADIO DOT COM forward forward slash zero six eight. You’ll get all the show notes in resources from that Web page. Can you believe that that is really quite the bargain. And it’s free free. I love love free. No charge all right. Well thanks everybody for joining us for this episode of Job Seekers Radio We want to acknowledge investment of time. And your attention. We we really really are grateful for it head on over to itunes if you’re on. IOS device the IPHONE and subscribe to get future episodes. While you’re there just give us a quick rate and review. We appreciate the feedback. We want to spread the message of what we’re trying to do here on job seekers radio and would appreciate your efforts in in making that a reality absolutely and if you have questions that’s a good spot for questions as to as well we enjoy doing those question answer episodes and there will be more of those in the future while I’m Andrew and I’m Scott got it in the words of Ralph Waldo Emerson. What lies behind you and what lies in front of you pales in comparison to what lies inside exciting? You make it happen everybody lakes.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Finding the way from a networking conversation to an actual job can be anything but a straight line. Knowing how to guide conversations depends on your expectations.

Andrew and Scott share ideas that will up-level your networking success.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• The outcomes you should expect from a networking conversation.
• Mindset for network conversations.

Resources (including affiliate links)

StrengthsFinder 2.0StrengthsQuestWhat Color is Your Parachute 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:02 – 00:05:14

job seekers radio. I’m Andrew and I’m Scott. This production is meant to provide meaningful support to fight great careers faster whether oh you are working or not. Today’s episode is brought to you by the anatomy of the networking conversation is an e book a free resource. We’ve put together for you so downloaded at job. Seekers radio DOT COM in today’s show. We’re talking about. How do I know that networking will actually lead to a job? You don’t think about it there. There are different ways of getting a job no matter who you are. What kind of job you’re looking for? There’s always a mix. The point we like to make is that networking is more likely to help you than not a majority of people at least in our observation get jobs through networking. If if we’re thinking and I’m GonNa make up the numbers here if we’re thinking maybe eighty percent get their jobs through networking and twenty percent. Don’t well it’s possible. Then you may be in the twenty percent. Who hasn’t yet that doesn’t mean? Networking is not a valuable experience for you. That can actually help. Support your job search in some fashion so we want to talk today about the different things that could help you in networking that will actually help your job seeking speaking. If you’re coming to this podcast. It’s likely because you realize that Scott Ni- consistently evangelized networking what we’re not saying is that applications. I don’t exist or don’t work or don’t matter what we recognize. That many people come to this podcast because they want to hear the networking side of the story to know okay it. How does this actually work? And how do I know it’s working. That’s really the foundation of our podcast is to talk about those things. Li probably still have to do applications nations. Even if you’re doing the networking yes. They’re still a process involved to be hired. And just because you’re networking doesn’t mean that that process goes away You’re briefly it’d be lengthened. You don’t control the Baraza exactly. We had a conversation with someone recently. WHO had said? But I’ve never gotten a job through networking before and and while I have no reason to think that’s incorrect. That doesn’t have to be completely true. To the extent that networking will help you. Who at every step of the process? Even when you got an interviews simply through a blind application the networking the discussions with other people about job seeking about what’s going on in your industry. Whatever all of these things will help you in your job search regardless us of how you landed the interview Mike Question for that individual? How does he really know that the networking didn’t help them get at Jane? How does he know that somebody he knows wasn’t a mutual connection? Sure and somebody called that person and gave him an endorsement or especially in the now. We’ve got linked. I can pull somebody up on Lincoln and see who my mutual connections are assuming there are some and then I will have already talked to that person. Listen hate you know so. And so well right there that’s part of networking so something is working there and to your point. I think there’s value do in questioning not so much whether or not it’s working for me but em I open do i. Are My eyes open to how networking is affecting me Because sometimes we think that our own processes are adequate. There’s a statistic that we often in it’s true across the board regardless of WHO’s actually doing doing the research it somewhere between seventy and eighty five percent of jobs are filled through networking recognize that. Hey you know there’s certain professions wins. They’re probably a little more amenable to networking than others. Yes as well as positionally. The the higher the positions the more networking actually really benefits And so that may be another perspective that may be. The individual has worked his way up into leadership positions within a single company company and so the the visibility to that kind of networking has been different. I think about my brother I have an older brother who has received offers. are at least requests to apply through networking just because of the nature of his work and he’s very visible within his expertise and so oh that happens for him sort of by chance but is it really by chance. And that’s kind of the point that I make with others that this is a process that really goes beyond beyond just our job seeking that comes back to your statement about keeping your eyes open and your ears open because you may be so focused on the applications that you don’t recognize that there’s people around you that are actually working on your behalf. You just don’t see it too exactly so that’s great observation. One thing we always encouraged people to do is be realistic about the conversations that you’re having and what you want that to lead to may not be where that conversation goes sure and and one specific example I can think of is a gentleman.

00:05:14 – 00:10:01

I met this week. I didn’t have any expectation of where that would go and we had a a good conversation. We’re going back and forth and you know he goes. What can I do for you? I love that question because it’s something like even though I called the meeting. He was really good and open about saying. How can I help you? And that’s when I had an opportunity then to know that I was in rapport because I felt comfortable. He feel comfortable and I just laid it out on the line what I was looking for but that was not my expectation when it happens be prepared that somebody is going to go to that place already well and I also so think about that. Even if I have a specific desire for a networking conversation I want to get something specific out of it and that may just be finding finding a name or two for people that I should be talking to be on one of the things that I do. Feel strongly about is not pushing that agenda allowing the networking conversation to go where it will organically because you never know what you might uncover that way. I think that in terms of the glass art that they do as a hobby. Some of my best work has actually started with a mistake. And so if if you take that point of view that a networking conversation may lead me down on a path I hadn’t planned on. It might actually be better than if I’d gotten what I planned on. Be Realistic about the outcome. Outcome could just be a great conversation could pay. And that’s it. The outcome could be an introduction to another person. The next step might be just an endorsement. Right just somebody saying Hey Endorse you for these skills. Or I’m gonNA write you a recommendation on Lincoln or whatever but it doesn’t always go directly to a job offer so going into a networking interaction and expecting that to go right to a job offer or an invite for interview even though that could be an outcome and here we get into whether or not. That’s realistic frankly. I don’t think it is I. I come back to the idea that and I know I’ve mentioned this before in prior podcast that trust that is developed over time in other words more than one conversation. That’s that’s generally when people will either come up with the idea or feel comfortable saying I would like to give you or or give you the information about this opportunity. Opportunity and trust is going to be built based on how many times you have shown up coming back to the thought of going to the gym when you go early in the morning the way I do people. People don’t generally talk early in the morning. They’re all waking up there in the gym because they want to actually get the benefits of the gym more than the social aspect. That’s not always true but most of the time and people don’t start saying good morning to you until they’ve seen you there over and over again and you have in a certain way. Become come a part of their regular life if only just being seen but they’re much more likely to open up when they’ve seen you more than once if you’re just having the conversation listen to to get to know people better and maybe to talk about whatever it is in your industry or your your specific line of work. Whatever that is you’re having having these conversations the deeper concepts come up after? They’ve made those connections several times in those conversations. It’s likely you’ll have an the opportunity to at minimum plant. Some kind of a see that could be harvested later one of the things. I encourage all of my coaching clients to do is always have a branding statement or a way to present yourself. That people can remember and often. We rely too heavily on our job title. which doesn’t always communicate value? We actually actually encourage you to put something better together that is over and above what you would call title at company. His always gonNA translate. Well I can’t say enough about the idea of personal branding. That will look different for everyone. And I think that’s actually the advantage. The ideas it’s more than just your job title. It’s more than just the work you’ve done in the past. It really should be speaking to your potential and the direction you want to move not uncommon. That you’ll also walk into these networking situations and people. I don’t know how to handle it. They don’t they don’t do networking either or they don’t fight. I had several conversations with clients this week because we set them up for success. Success by giving them best practice and a checklist and things to follow so that they get consistent results in their networking when they run across. Somebody who doesn’t doesn’t live to that same standard. They get a little irritated. Well that it also will put you off your own process because hey I’ve got a step-by-step here how come you’re not following can’t and you can throw yourself off that way so being resilient in those moments can be really a benefit and that’s not to say that we shouldn’t be following processes processes actually.

00:10:01 – 00:15:04

There’s always a process. It may look a little different for the various companies. You’re going for if you’re applying assuming you’re applying to more than one company. They’ll have if some differences in the process being aware of what the processes are finding out more about. It will actually benefit you. And we’ve talked about this a lot in the anatomy of networking working conversation. But it’s always good to let people know why you’re there in that conversation like yes. I’m looking for work but I don’t expect you to find me Ajab. Yes I’m working on a project. This is what it looks like. I’m just seeking advice right. Having a purpose for that meeting will actually allow that person to carry those seeds for you effectively as we talk about have a project you’re working on. We highly recommended something that relates to the work that you want to continue doing doing or the work you want to start doing because again. We’re talking about planting seeds for your potential for the future that you are envisioning and the better. You can speak week to that with a personal branding statement as well as talking about the projects. You’re working on. It gives people a more holistic view of what you might be doing doing or might be able to do and they will think of that in the future. I think about a Gal who still to this day will contact me saying hey I found a job. Would you be interested even even though we haven’t talked about my job seeking in quite a while she’s still thinks of me that way because you had planted that seed exactly so many years ago go still bearing fruit exact day and and she’s a delightful person. We’ve we actually have gone back and forth on this. When I see jobs that she would be the interested in? She’s actually not looking for fulltime work. She wants pertain temporary. So when those positions come up and specifically in the Financial World Yuck I think of her first I. Let’s not overlook the level of relationship. You have with this person. Meaning the Kremlin. Crammer against the apex of networking would be eh networking with hiring managers. Now working at that level is different. Than if you’re add a frontline level. The objective might be different so if I’m networking with hiring managers is a higher probability. That’s GonNa lead to something like an interview or an application or a job creation process. If I’m networking with somebody frontline or here here. They may not be in the position to hire but they certainly can put their thumb on the scale and say you should look at this person. Yes so the outcome from that conversation isn’t job. Its thumb on scale and the strength of that relationship and we talked about trust is going to be really important. The networking allows allows you over time to build that trust so that when they do put their thumb on the scale at matter. You actually bring up another point under that I think is also worthy of some discussion. And that is do I go to the networking events only with higher level positions attending or. Do I attend things whether it’s a job seekers group group of some kind or any of the other job fairs where most of the people that I’d be talking to our entry level. You’re actually touching on that. I think both are important but for different reasons. I don’t recommend that anyone pick only those events where the hiring managers are networking amongst themselves. I think thank you need to balance both out because to your point there have been times in my career where maybe I wasn’t the person that they they would choose and that it might have been. Maybe that wasn’t a company I wanted but I could still give them a referral to others that I knew who could do similar work. The fact that I’m networking with with the frontline employees actually benefited them as well. What we’re at advocating here is? Yes you can go to group events and there’s value to that I’m more talking about the one on one one conversation with people that I know people I’ve been introduced to or an individual. I reached out to directly on Lincoln and we get into a conversation. And and where does it go from there so not that there isn’t value. I look at events more like a top of funnel activity where you’re taking the group event to an individual level exactly in and then filtering filtering people and you’re on that page. Yeah it’s it’s more about the conversations you’re having don’t look at the source of those conversations as specifically an issue try try to get a balance of the different kinds of positions of the people that you’re you’re working for because both of them can help if you do enough of these network meetings what you’ll find and is that there is some consistency to them and you’ll get into a rhythm and then you’ll be more aware when the conversation actually changes inches and there’s a shift in that conversation from cordial you know back and forth banter two. Oh do you have skills doing this or something like that. They start asking you what I would perceive or at least qualify as interview questions from a sales perspective. Those buying cues in other words that someone is asking you questions that actually have some depth to them because they’re interested in knowing more.

00:15:04 – 00:20:02

There’s there’s an agenda growing there. It may never actually grow into a full agenda that I am going to help you get your next job. There’s interest there that we we want to respond to so as that conversations starts to change and and those interview questions are coming. I generally try to ask very similar questions for two reasons. First of all I can get more information about that person about that person’s percents company and all that also you’re showing curiosity and the other person that is another step of building. Trust the more information you gather the more you know what they’re looking for in even if they are up here they may know of an opportunity coming or a need in the organization that they helped craft that job statement. They just haven’t posted it yet. So there’s always a reason that the conversation shifts to that interview question just be aware of it be aware of it and take note of of it. If you’re like me I forget very quickly I forget the little things the details very very quickly. I- that’s been true of me for as long as I can remember it’s always encouraging urging to read the stories that say oh that means you’re particularly intelligent setting that telling yourself out. No I read. This is in an article that I read not too long ago and so of course I grabbed onto it really point to right. No my point is that because I forget things quickly I have to write them down as assumes I can if you’re like me make time to write down your notes obviously you’re not going to be taking notes in every conversation you have before you forget them. Write them down because if you go back to that person sometime later and follow up with questions about what you talked about. That sends a very very powerful message to that person that you thought enough of them that you remember what they were saying and if you WANNA be remembered do that it also reminds me Scott of the conversation you had where you applied for the job. It wasn’t a fit. Somebody else got it. They were better qualified. But you kept in touch and another job. Oh came open and then when you went to that interview. And truthfully I consider every networking interaction an interview. This happened to be an actual interview. But they were doing some a future. Yes in future cat writing during the interview it was for a position that was not yet budgeted budgeted for the following year. When I that kind of stuff happens all the time right so if I had not had the country I actually applied for a position? That was an administrative assistant position for which I was terribly. overqualified could do the work absolutely and I. I would love if if there are any employers listening to us right now. I would encourage you to stop. Judging whether or not someone there’s overqualified for a position with the fear that they’re going to move on or move up for Heaven’s sakes hire them so they can move up at your company. There is great value in bringing people in who are overqualified and I’m using air quotes over qualified for a position but setting that aside I had applied for this position and his response this to me was you are overqualified. Why would you want this position and my response was and I had done my homework about the company I want in your company and and I will do what it takes to get in your company and move up in there is value there? I would much rather hire someone who is going to feel good about my company and maybe even replace me to allow me to move up. There’s value in that in the interview. That’s a position creation discussion not uncommon. That you’ll come into an interaction with the hiring manager who hasn’t yet had anything posted and they start talking to you and they come to this realization. You have what I need to solve this problem. I didn’t realize I had the networking is really almost like a consultation. If you think about it I think that’s the best way to describe it. Yeah so if you start saying okay I have this set of skills that I do things things in this kind of way and I have this brand and I’d like to learn more about what you’re doing in this area they’re like wow. I never thought about having anything like that. The last full time position and I was hired into. That is exactly what happened as we think about this. And you realize you do have skills and knowledge and training and all these things things that could be helpful. If you’re talking about that in the sense of a brand you’re putting yourself out there in a different way from the person who is just trying to interview for a single position position you’re actually showing them all of the value or at least a bigger chunk of the value that you’re bringing to the table that allows them to sort of relax into into what could be for the future as they are creating that position. If you show one curiosity for the company itself also that that sense of adventure of going along that adventure with them. You’re going to go on the journey with them. Now they’re having a completely different perspective of you and your candidacy.

00:20:02 – 00:25:11

This is really effective. especially if you have a solid network within an industry so I was actually coaching a candidate here not too long ago ago. who had some subject matter expertise in a specific category? Let’s just call it. That and they reached out to their members of their network and he was really apprehensive about Out even networking. He didn’t WanNa do it but he did it anyway. And he reached out to this person that he had established credibility with and they said Oh. Well we’re opening a site. We haven’t decided minded on a location yet. And he went into full court. Press to have that site open here in Portland versus somewhere else. Because he had done this before with that that hiring manager who didn’t know he was on the market. Instead of spending his time interviewing for a job that was already posted he went through the process of creating establishing and building doing a business case with this hiring manager who hadn’t offered him anything by the way right. He did all this in advance and by the time they got it approved. Oh well who we gonNA hire to do. This is fantastic. And so they just bring him right fast tracked him right into the process. Here’s another idea that when you’re doing your networking not because you’re looking for job because you might have something to offer other people that you already know. That situation can come up. And it wouldn’t have had he not been doing that when now we’re getting that’s a really good case for we’re continuing your networking while you’re in your work while you’re entering job that was almost accidental right. But you’re in the right place at the right time right. And in this case he he knew how to solve a very specific problem that they were having and that was establishing a new site for a call center and he thought he pitched this area is the best area to put it. That’s fantastic. Yeah so what I took away from. That is if you can position yourself as a solution to a very specific problem that you enjoy solving then people will say that. Oh how I have that problem too and then the conversation is much easier when you start thinking about okay. What about the interview? What about an application? You know so then I go through the mechanics of a process process knowing that. I’m not the compliance candidate. If you know what I mean it also puts you in a different mind it. You’re much more confident going through that process because you’ve gotten there in a different from way talk about self-confidence we talk all the time with people who’ve been out of work for a while and self confidence is the first casualty in long-term unemployment and long-term is in quotes as well because it’s different for everybody that is going to completely change how things go during the process part. It could also be that just by you doing that conversation. You just happen to be in the right place at the right time exactly where someone has had a situation. Let’s just call it. The situation in that could be somebody quit something more. They retired retired got fired promoted transferred medical leave whatever that looks like and they need someone stab like like yesterday but you showed up today. ’cause it just happened today. Yeah if you don’t show up that won’t happen for you right. You gotta show up you gotTa be in out there networking networking and showing up so that they will think of you. You’ll be in the right place at the right time. But if you don’t leave your home and your only putting out online applications it won’t happen for you. So this is how we know networking is actually working is if you do enough of it you’re actually going to be in the right place at the right time or one of these things happens. You’re immediately kind of fast. Tracked into the process agree. Because I’m now having a interview conversation screening interview with a hiring person and I think about out experience that I’ve had where I was talking with a colleague about the topic at hand in training. I was conducting styles preference training where we were discussing. How you can read other people’s styles and all this and the manager of this group offhandedly commented Oh you should apply for this open position in her division and It’s like oh well you know I don’t have any experience in your division and I just sort of laughed it out but she followed up with me later to say no. You really need to apply for this position position. That was a really interesting conversation. Any of wasn’t even talking about my interest in moving into a different position. It was only because we were having thing one on one interaction. If you’re out there and having these conversations you’re much more likely to run into those opportunities because you happen to be there. Granted there are some people who are just more introverted. nisus going to be a much greater effort for them. I acknowledge that but I would also challenge you. If you’re one of those don’t let it keep you from getting out there networking figure out a way where that’s bring somebody with you as a support mechanism or whatever you gotta be out there. I’m an introvert. So Oh I I have to work at doing this stuff. It’s exhausting for me so if you WANNA tear the in recovering introvert reach out to beef. Save our emails and contact. Information are all over the odd cast. But but I’d like to ask you a question about that situation. You just described. How would you rate or at least evaluate the strength? Your your relationship with that person that recommended you contact a second contact or It was probably the third contact.

00:25:11 – 00:30:11

I actually know this individual through other training opportunities or we were acquainted but we weren’t close. It’s not like we had a daily conversation or work the the project but that was the start to finish got involved in working with her because of the training that I was providing but then she asked me to accompany her to some of her locations that she supervised to discuss how we keep that training that we had gone through a live with her direct reports and it was in one of those conversations those times we would go out in the field and and visit her locations that this conversation really began not only had. We established established a working relationship before that relationship got much deeper and much more trusting because of that conversation that happened and then when she became something of an internal advocate for me with her boss she put me in touch with her boss to explore the possibilities. It changed the way I approached the conversations because she was asking me to. I was far more confident in the conversation. Then if I had been feeling desperate about it so again what we talked to people who have been unemployed for a long period. We talked to them about their feelings of desperation. If networking builds your confidence why wouldn’t hugh oh I would. Yeah I do actually one of the only reasons I do it as an introvert is so that I know because I know it works and then when I do I feel better afterwards even though it takes a lot of energy right because now I feel like I have traction. I’ve had a conversation with a person and I feel human coming back back to the initial question of have you know the networking leads to a job. I guess my first idea here is have those realistic expectations of what networking working is doing. In this moment if I go into a networking conversation thinking that I’m I want my next interview to come from this conversation. I’m probably probably overshooting it. I don’t think that’s a realistic expectation. Instead if I go into that network can conversation to learn something about the other person or to learn something about a new perspective on the kind of work that I do. That’s going to be far more valuable because it’s more attainable. And when I attain that I’m going to feel oh good about it if I instead I walk into a networking conversation thinking I want my next interview to come from this and I don’t get it then. I’m going to start reinforcing the idea. Yeah that doesn’t work when in fact. I haven’t been realistic in the first place. Not An uncommon. Also kind of a corollary to this right place right time. Kind of thing is that you’ll get getting a great conversation to have a good back and forth with somebody and they’ll say I don’t do that but they do and that’s an opportunity for you to get referred into another portion portioned that organization because that’s who they work with and that’s who they would do that right and that’s a logical reason to actually be doing that at working as you run into people or you know. Maybe you compile lists of people I even think about this. That they’re just really strong refers though I have no problem referring to people so you have to get to know them before they’re going to think of you in those terms so you. You got to keep showing up in my mind when I go to networking interaction. I assume it’s an an interview because everything I’m doing is recognized and observed by the other person the other advantage of that assuming you do get an interview you’re going to be showing up the same person in the HR world. I I hear it all the time. It oh well. That person interviewed well as if they were a different person during the interview them. During the other conversations networking actually helps to present. You as you are so if you are approaching this as an interview I would say be authentic. Don’t think Oh this is so I’m going to be different from the minority will be you you be. You don’t don’t try and change your personality or or are your your motivations. Just be authentic but as you get in there you’re treating this like an interview. You’re being very comfortable and very authentic. Then when you you do progress to the interview you haven’t changed your showing them a consistent idea and they will continue to trust you and don’t get out over your skis as people say often. Yeah I get into these conversations and it’s like Oh this isn’t this isn’t good. This is not going anywhere and then it ends up going somewhere. Don’t evaluate or analyze or judge that conversation until after it’s over two great advice is oh come in with your mind right and focused on the conversation then contributing and planting the seeds and and then when you’re gone from that place then evaluate shower went. That’s also going to help you keep from looking like you have specific agenda for that conversation if it’s networking when you’re saying you’re curious about the person and yet you’re judging and as you go you’re actually setting yourself up for failure we’re trying to keep our mindset straight that if I come come into the mindset.

00:30:11 – 00:32:16

Hey I want job. This guy’s going to give me a job job job job. GotTa have my resume ready. While I can’t completely discount about that idea in certain specific situations that may be effective but in my work and my networking that generally puts people off more than it gets the job. So I really do. Think that if you go into a networking opportunity whether it’s in one on one conversation event or anything else go in with the idea that you’re going to have an enjoyable time you’re going to be open to the possibilities that show up for you in that moment. You’re not judging it as you go but you want to plant those seeds. You WanNa do the things that help people understand who you are and what you offer. You’re probably going to have a better time and as you evaluate it afterwards you will see the progress aggress over time. That’s how we answer the question. Do I know that job seeking will lead to a job. You’ll see how it ties together. which have to pay attention? That’s why we have created a free resource for you so that you can optimize your networking conversations for optimal value. What would that be? It’s called the anatomy the of networking conversation. Wow where can I find that. That’s on job. Seekers radio DOT COM along with the show notes at job seekers radio DOT COM forward slash zero six seven. We want to thank you for this time with us today. we we know it’s an investment of time and this episode has gone a little longer and we. We really appreciate the fact that you’re here with us and that you’re you’re on this journey with us we want to encourage you. If you haven’t already done so to go over to itunes and subscribed to get future episodes. You can also listen to some of our past episodes bench. Listen absolute download the mall. We like binging. It’s not that way though. Scott Wilson Oh this is Andrew and I’m Scott in the words of t s Eliot. What we call the beginning is often the end and end to make an end is to make beginning? The end is where we start from. Love that all right. Thanks everybody by.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

What happens when you can’t seem to get unstuck? Seek advice and information from trusted sources.

Andrew and Scott answer your toughest questions.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• How to start a career with a worthless law degree.
• Overcoming 2500 applications and no interviews after 6 years of looking.
• Keeping an open mind when it doesn’t feel natural or normal.
• Having an outlet for pressure and coping mechanisms during challenging times.
• Transitioning from owning a business to working for a company.
• Best practices in preparing for IT interviews.
• Value of networking to prepare for interviews.
•   

Resources (including affiliate links)

064 How Do I Know What Job To Apply For063 The Number One Secret To Job Satisfaction 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View TranscriptTo Follow
Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

The jobs reports don’t always tell the whole story. There are a  myriad of situations that individuals have endured that are not reflected in the data reporting.

Scott and Andrew have your covered! Talking about situations when you have been looking for awhile and just unable to secure the right full-time job.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• The data tell a story.
• What to do about your individual situation.
• Getting out of the situation you are in.
• The value of self-care.
• Different types of work arrangements.
• Mindset required to succeed.

Resources (including affiliate links)

The number of people who have given up an active job search in September 2019 was 6.9 percent, some 11 million people.

60% U.S. workers are in mediocre or bad jobs or multitude of temporary and part time jobs. 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:01 – 00:05:07

local job seekers radio. I’m Andrew and I’m Scott. This podcast is meant to provide you meaningful support to find great careers faster. stor whether you are working or not by the way. Today’s episode is brought to you by the Anatomy of networking conversation. Isn’t he book book that we put together for you. It’s free so you can download that on job seekers radio DOT COM in today’s show we talk about a recent article that was published in The New York Times. We will actually put a link to the article in the show notes just as a cliff notes version of this article. It was talking about people. That still can’t find jobs in today’s marketplace so really. We’re we’re covering topic cold. What do I do when I just can’t find fulltime work and I want to start out by saying that? I’ve been in those shoes back. During the great recession I spent three years ears looking for full time work and was not successful until three years later finally landing a job given that I have personal experience experience with it. I have a very different idea of what that looks like from those who have been working all their lives. Yes it makes me more empathetic it. It makes me more sympathetic for those who are currently in a similar situation. Also just this past week I had a chance to talk to a woman who is now in the same situation at three years still unable to find full time employment the fact that this article came out in the New York Times. This week really hits home. What’s different is that? We’re now in a period. where unemployment is remarkably low? Although I will say it’s still just as warped warped a number as when the great recession was happening while during my three years of unemployment because there are so many people who don’t get counted in the unemployment numbers. We’ll talk or we’ll hear talk a lot about how we’re at. Historically low percentages that doesn’t address the fact that there are people out there who still are dealing with long-term unemployment. Let’s also recognize when I see a headline like that is designed to get clicks and sell advertising and Sell Newspapers K.. On both sides right. So here’s the bad. Here’s the lowest employment in forever or people. People still can’t find work it. We’re going to these two extremes in order to get people to read articles that’s the first thing but there is some data that was included in this article that I thought was worthy the of being shared the rate of people who are unable and just gave up on their active job search in September twenty nineteen was six point nine percent that amounts was to about eleven million working individuals in the United States willing and able to work eleven. Million people is a big number. That isn’t being counted in my point and that means that this is real the fact that people can’t find work Israel but we’re here to offer you actionable items actionable things things in this podcast to push through that barrier. Because you have to. I think about the this idea that people stop looking well yes to greater or lesser degrees. Raise some people stop looking the way they normally do or the way their unemployment benefits required while they were receiving them after a few months. Serve serve however long. Your state gives you just because you’re not looking in the way they require doesn’t mean you’ve actually stopped looking i. I won’t discount the fact that yes some people will stop looking. They can afford it or they have a support network that allows them to but even they come back into the job seeking numbers. Those numbers don’t get counted. Well you never know who’s in and who’s not counted and who isn’t and how do they get these numbers. And how do they relate. It’s is really what I know. I don’t really know well. I’m curious because having been through it when they stopped counting me. Was it just because I I have. My unemployment benefits ran out. My understanding is that’s usually when people stopped getting counted is when there unemployment runs out. That doesn’t mean that they have stopped looking at means Sir there. They’ve just stopped counting the next step from there. Who are these people? And so that’s part of it so there’s really two categories that people see people that are just making it cobbling together trying trying to keep their mind right and doing whatever it takes to put in together then the other side of the equation is okay. Yes these people gave up looking. But they didn’t have to look and there’s everybody nobody in between sure of their financially. Okay they maybe have some assets or spouse that’s working or whatever else not that they weren’t motivated but they weren’t forced yes yes to find some. They’re not in the same situation another number. That doesn’t get counted as all the people that are in jobs they hate and are still looking. Yes or they’re working part time when they need full-time employment or they’re working for less pay than they actually need at fulltime and so they’re looking for a second job to make ends meet.

00:05:07 – 00:10:09

All of these things come into play. That was is actually a number. They shared in the article. That came from Gallup which is doing all kinds of surveys in research on this kind of thing and they came up with a number that sixty percent right now sixty percent of. US workers feel they’re in mediocre or bad jobs or a multitude of temporary part-time arrangements. So you think about those who have been in out of the workforce for a long time or for whatever reason. They can’t get the full time work that they want. They’re not just competing with others. who are out of work? They’re competing with with those who are in bad jobs. It keeps that funnel for the recruiters really full. So how do you break through the noise so that you get noticed it is a perennial issue that we answer questions about all the time. And that’s why we talk a lot about networking as an effective search method. Believe we’ll get to that in a second. I can’t I just WANNA shout out there to those people that are kind of in a portfolio career where I feel like I’m in a portfolio career like I have some contract work. I’m doing with the company. You have my own business. Doing freelance work doing this. PODCAST that I guess could be considered a job even though it’s something we do as a Labor of love right and I’m in the same situation I have full-time employment but I also do work on side as a Gig to expand my reach because right now the fulltime job is only you know. I’m basically a one trick pony at work and and I love what I do. I WANNA keep doing it. But this the the side gigs. Allow me to expand my reach so these are ways that we can create a larger career for ourselves in a sort of portfolio. I think that’s a great term. And there’s pluses and minuses too. That the the plus is I have some flexibility to decide. The minuses flexibility means. I don’t have anything that’s consistent all the time. At least in my situation right I might have income spurts. BIRT’s not income streams exactly and for those of us who do have fulltime work. At least we got a base that we can rely on. Nobody knows how long that’s GonNa last. I it doesn’t matter the situation. There are no guarantees. I’m fortunate to have fulltime work. That allows me flexibility in my schedule. So that if I need to do a side Gig I can and I consider myself fortunate to be in that situation. Not Everybody in that. Do your best to find out if that’s a A possibility sure with your employer so the other part of the equation. Scott that when we read this this particular article people are still relying on traditional methods of research and and nothing wrong with that. Okay it is something I encourage people to do. It makes sense exactly. Let’s look at where we get the results in a a conversation I had with one of the placement professionals. Here in the Portland area. We were talking about some advice. I’ve been given by yet another consultant consultant. Who wanted me to change up my resume and to make it a functional resume which is fine having worked within the HR realm? For as as long as I have I also know that. Generally speaking functional resume is an indicator that I don’t have the right experience with those skills or in that job so it’s sort of a cautionary flag if not a red flag and I’m not sure I wanna do that so I asked this consultant. Her feeling on it and her response was used resume. That gets you interviews. I apply that to the job. Search do the kind of job search that gets you results. And if you’re doing a traditional job search where you’re you’re finding the jobs that you want to apply to end you send off the resume and you actually are getting responses and getting interviews. Keep doing that. But if you’re not getting those calls and not getting interviews from them you gotta find a different way about and each one of you need to make a decision on your Tolerance Level Chore Or. What is an acceptable acceptable number of interviews based on the applications? I’m doing how much time you have in between those interviews. I if again. You’re in the Lucky lucky group. That can just okay. I’ve got plenty of money sitting there. I can live on great That means you don’t need a lot of results right away for many of us we need to. Let’s see something a little faster. We WanNA see direct correlation between an application in an offer and that doesn’t always come no or even application to interview. We have to look at our conversion rates there right and each one of us is going to have something different. The idea is for doing job. Search online we were talking in a prior episode about this idea. Yeah that that a lot of these jobs search websites probably have people in them that came from casinos or in some ways making their platform a little more more attractive to you so you spend more time there because there’s no end to it. You search list of jobs and you think you’ve gotten to the end and then there’s another page right and then there’s another page and then there’s another pay and if you change one word on your search criteria suddenly you’re getting a whole different list or at least a half of it is different and so yes.

00:10:09 – 00:15:07

It’s it’s a process that never ends if you think about what it is that’s actually motivating you as you’re doing your search that’s also going to help you understand if I keep doing the same same thing over and over again the same traditional search or maybe the same nontraditional search but I keep doing it and I’m not getting results O. K.. Why why do I keep doing it? I’m going to make the assumption that those who keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results are not in fact insane. Even though that’s the definition of insanity there is a reason. What are they getting out of this? If it’s just the dopamine rush of saying Hey I did my ten applications today okay. That’s great glad. Let you feel good about it. Tell me where that’s leading you. Did you get the call for the interview. No I also think about what if all I’m doing is networking and I’m not sending out applications. How is that working for me now? I have a preconceived idea that networking is a better way to do it. That’s because that’s what works for me even when I’ve gone on jobs in the past just from an online application which has happened. Actually that has happened more often for me than for others. I now. But it doesn’t mean I stopped networking working networking is where I actually get that dopamine the fulfillment that the feelings of wow that was really good experience. I rarely get that feeling from an application occasion. But when I’m out there doing the networking and I’m talking with people and I have these really great conversations. I get something out of that so I want to do more of that and often often. That’s called oxytocin right. It’s positive addictive. The chemical chemical in your brain right that comes from actually interacting with people and feeling progress. That’s good inorganic well. And I’m a big believer in making connections especially as we hear about the traditional online search. Okay it’s funny that we use traditional traditional when that really has only been in the last twenty years you think about this this has become the norm and we here other professionals. At least I hear it all the time. I’m fairly certain you do too about how some people love. To blame the millennials. They are not the only ones doing this. All they do is use their technology. Everybody starts to pull in and they’re using their technology is just to give an idea of what that looks like. I’ve heard so many times people saying oh well you get on your commuter rail you know the the subway subway whatever your commuter mass transit is and you look at all the people and they’re all on their phones. Aren’t we terrible society because we are all on our phones and I saw online. This was a couple years ago. A picture of people on the New York Metro Line on the commute. They were not on cell phones because of course cell phones weren’t invented yet they were all reading the paper same process. So let’s stop blaming the tools and the technology and all this stuff. We’re going to do the same things things what has happened is we now have so much more information so much more entertainment so much more of everything available on that technology and they have these people working for them to keep you on their technology right. So there’s there’s a lot more going on with that. We have the ability to connect with people if we do so intentionally. And that’s the the advantage of networking not to mention the keeping up with the Joneses. Well we’re we’re people in the specifically in job search where two people have similar skill sets similar experience right. Everything seems to line up. What guy gets the job? One guy doesn’t or GAL al.. Take your one person right and the person that didn’t get the job feels what’s wrong with me or more. Oh my gosh. That person got that happened to me more or then once. I came in second so many times during my my long-term unemployment and I would say to people always the bridesmaid never the bride but seeing that happen online line just makes you feel worse Sir and especially if somebody you know exactly son of a gun actually good for you. Yup and I asked that personal case was the process like for you and that can go one of two ways either. They had the same experience that they just happened to win or they had much better experience. And now I’m feeling worse that happens to that brings up a lot in the category of self care not allowing knowing ourself to Kennedy Been Mild depression or at least going that way to a dark place. Psychologically you’ve heard me say it before a number of times it. It is okay to give yourself permission to rest. That is probably the one thing that kept me sane. During the three years of unemployment is when someone said you have permission to take time off from your job search because of course I had no money left. I was living with family. I I I was lucky enough to have family live with and I won’t get into that part of the conversation about the definition of a homeless.

00:15:07 – 00:20:01

The idea is I had a network and I had had the significant need to get work and yet the thing that kept me going was giving myself permission to just take arrest. I wouldn’t rest. It’s too long. I’m not talking about a whole week or a whole month of not looking but maybe the rest of today or never leaving the house kind of Oh outright often it was get out of the house because spending the whole time in the house trying to find work online get Outta the house. Go Up to Japanese gardens. Her go to the coast or go to the park. Do something that doesn’t cost me any money. It’s doing something that feeds you that you’re taking care of yourself and when I was reading this article it was really interesting thing that the people weren’t really clear on why they were doing what they’re doing and it’s so easy which actually perpetuates. I think that the depression released depressive thoughts. Lots is at blaming somebody else for your circumstance you know what I mean. Yeah well playing playing the victim my own experience. I was a victim I chose does not to use that term. There were some unfair practices going on at the organization where I was working and I lost my job albeit part of a larger layoff effort. The company can you that what they did was not ethical and in a couple of ways illegal. I didn’t allow that to give me an excuse for not putting my best foot forward. I was victimized but instead I tried to turn that around to. What can I learn from this so that I set up a better fit in my next job? And it wasn’t sent taking the onus off of me it was shifting it it was reframing it that okay I wasn’t treated fairly what can I do differently moving forward so I’m really looking looking at the future not at the past. What can I do today in this moment? That is going to set me on a different trajectory and I found that to be particularly helpful. That’s also what got me involved with the breakfast club and moderating that and I had a network of people that you included that helped me get onto a very a different journey that has helped me enormously. That’s why we talk about. Why am I doing what I’m doing and often you can look at? Let’s say applications. Why am I doing? Applications is that generated results. Why am I staying at home right? And getting down to that base reason that it’s not serving me and once I get to a point where I’ve identified something that’s not serving me. I need to make a decision to stop doing it. That’s hard okay. The decision itself may not be that difficult. It’s the acting on amid admitting your point is absolutely spot on if I figure out why I’m doing what I’m doing and it’s not serving me the next question. What am I going to do about it because if I choose not to do anything about it then? It’s nobody else’s fault that I’m not making progress now. It’s completely on me regardless of the fact that I was treated unfairly and lost the job right now now it’s on me now. You’re not empowered either. You haven’t empowered yourself okay. You’ve disempowered yourself when I realized I had permission to rest. That also gives me that same same permission to now get up and do something different and is it going to take effort yes. Am I going to get tired. Yes am I going to fail at some level on this. Yes and that’s okay because those who you’re learning experiences we don’t learn from our successes we learn from our failures are successes. Validate our choices uses. When we talk about self care we also have to recognize when were being what I would call absolutist like? I never do this or I always that or and we’re going knowing kind of to an extreme like networking never worked for me. Therefore I’m not GonNa do it anymore or applications right there right in front of me. They’re easy I’m going to keep keep doing those. Because they’re always there this fundamentalist mindset that it’s just the way it is than we can’t see something new. I often hear people say you know what I know. I need to try something in different. But I feel like I’ve tried everything I actually liked those conversations because you can pretty quickly figure out some things they have done yet and that’s just by asking them about what they’ve done. Okay what did you there. Have you considered that. Tell me about the avenues. Well what avenues do you think could be there. I also just read a brief e-learning on reverse first brainstorming and I okay what’s that will. The idea is instead of brainstorming for solutions you brainstorm on those things that would make your situation Asian worse seriously. Yeah in the context of job search. Okay what doesn’t work for you. What would happen if you keep doing that? What happens if you dig even deeper into to that and what it does is it starts to really identify the things that you are currently doing? That won’t be working for you all right now. I can list out all the things. That don’t work IRK now. I can start looking at things that I can stop doing. So if this is true that by staying at home and only applying to the jobs obsessed absolutely fit.

00:20:01 – 00:25:03

All of the things that I’ve been doing and I’m not getting any interviews for that if I keep doing that. Where’s that going to lead? Now I’ve explored the outcomes. The potential outcomes for the things that I’ve probably not doing very well. I can stop doing those because I now. I’m free to think about the things that might work. It’s a way to sort of wake yourself up. I’ve really enjoyed the little tutorial that I got one of the things that I found really helpful to me when I when I wanted to focus on self care was to really catalog the day to know that okay got up at this hour. I did this so that I could number one back my day and say okay. I did something today and that was helpful to me. It was kind of You know that I could demonstrate on paper that I actually did something. It also allowed me to look at what I did and say what actually worked does it really Mir the effective methods. Search that we know about. Did I actually leave the house so now I can see okay. Yes I may have tried everything but if I spent seven hours of my day online applications fifteen minutes in networking went for a walk for thirty minutes or whatever then I can. I can take a look at that and yes. I did something today but does that mirror the effect of search that right no from all the research we’ve seen between seventy and eighty five percents should be a networking but you bring up. Something that I think is important to at least acknowledge and that is is our own personal styles because as you started down that discussion on logging everything and tracking it and all that that is very analytical which is part if what drives your style preferences in for me that’s like Oh my God. I don’t WanNa do that. Because that’s not my style my styles to get out and talk to people and make those connections. I know Oh people that that would just blow their minds right. They don’t want to meet new people because they’re not comfortable whether they’re introverted or anything else. That’s just not their style. If I can acknowledge knowledge the fact that this is going to take effort for me to log all my contacts and to actually track how it’s doing to keep that spreadsheet if sure if that’s how you’re going to to log the activities that’s GonNa take me some effort. That effort actually has value. Maybe it’s not your style to get out of network and so you sort of resist. Resist that effort. If you make that effort you will have something accomplished whether or not it has a all the results. You’re looking for the first time you will have accomplished something you will hug grown and this is one of those things where yes. It’s not your style do it. Anyway I think it’s Meryl Streep among many people that talks about. She takes the roles that frightened her the things that take you out of your comfort zone. That’s where growth happens as you’re looking at the things that I just. I’m not sure I wanted to do it. Do something something different because you will feel like a more whole person by trying and the reason I brought up the catalog pieces because it’s helpful to identify if people pull. It tried everything that we know what they’ve tried in how much they’ve invested in that. Absolutely yes I am analytical but that’s how we diagnose sure so that we can provide a treatment demint as a coach. I have to know these things. If I don’t have anything to go on other than your word that you’ve tried everything. How am I gonNA know? What does that really mean? I’ve tried everything. Okay define everything thing. Yeah right you’re absolutely right even for those of us who don’t do the analysis in the sense of putting it one data point together one data point at a time. I still need to know. Oh these are things that if you don’t know how can I accept that you’ve done everything. We all have blind spots so if I’ve tried everything it’s everything I know I’m not try. Let’s try to uncover the things you don’t know to try. Have you put your resume on a roll of toilet paper right. You can print things on toilet paper. Have we’ve seen that. No you could actually print your resume until you the paper and put it in the business. You WanNa work. Do you think that would work job. That would certainly get attention. I think it’s hilarious. Thinking it was more of a commentary on the resume resume but it is. Hey Hey this is an idea. Maybe that’s your calling card. I’m not going to give you my business card. I’m going to they give you roll of toilet paper okay. That’s an idea. I had never thought of believe me. They’ll remember me. I do think that you should try new things. If only early to give yourself experience at doing things that you’re not necessarily going to choose on your own because when you think about it that also is a skill that is transferable in the job market if you are constantly doing things that take you out of your comfort zone that teach you new things that at least give you a new perspectives. That’s going to help you in an interview. Keep making making that effort. Don’t do only the things that you know how to do. Talk to people friends coaches your networking groups your associations and trade associations any group of people throw it out there that this is what you’re doing and let them help you come up with new ideas. It’s amazing what you can come up with in in these kinds of groups and for those of you that are still working.

00:25:04 – 00:28:03

I encourage you to do two things one. If you don’t need to find another job great good for you but make yourself tailable to those people who do so the way you pay it forward and give back to a community is by being available investing your time as you see appropriately and and the other side is never stopped looking. Never look always have your head on a swivel as they say in the military. You’re always looking for the next thing because there’s always unless you think there’s it’s nothing else that’s better which I don’t and you’re close to retirement. They’d if you Ford Alvarado that there’s nothing better. The thing is though I don’t think retirement is better. I don’t ever WANNA stop working. I never want to stop giving but I would love to get to a position where I don’t have stop working for the paycheck. I am working right now because I need an income I would love up to be able to work without need for an income because then that work would take on a slightly different nuance. Would I continue doing the kinds of things that I do now. Yes because is I love doing it in fact it. It’s I enjoy it so much. It has become part of how I I create my own identity with that sad. There are a lot of people who work because they I need the paycheck and they’re doing a job that just brings them the paycheck. It’s not necessarily something they’re passionate about. Here we get back into your point keep networking keep looking. Keep making making yourself available to a larger group of people that can talk to you about what you know to expand your mind on the things you don’t know to really be honing owning your interpersonal connections skills because that will always help you even on your current job that you love and you WanNa keep for the rest of your career. That’s why we’ve created the anatomy of a networking conversation e book. That’s a free download resource for you. The listener at job seekers radio DOT COM. You can get the show notes there at job. Seekers radio DOT COM forward slash zero six five without. We want to thank everybody for joining us for this episode of Job Seekers Radio Your investment of time and your attention is something we really appreciate. We value that we really value that. And while. You’re on itunes. I I would encourage you to subscribe to the future episodes a while. You’re there it would be really helpful for us to get rate in review it because we wanna make this a better product for you number one and number two. If you have questions you can. We can always respond to those right and get you a direct answer. In fact I I like to put out there we we we are requesting questions and comments because these are really helpful to other people who may be thinking the same things so please send those to us and if you have the question it’s a high probability somebody else has it until we are happy to answer we want to. I’m Scott and I’m Andrew in the words of Gandhi as human beings beings. Our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world that is the myth of the atomic age as in being able to remake ourselves. If you change yourself you will change the world by everybody by.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

With millions of jobs posted online and available at all times, it’s hard to know what jobs to apply for (or not). Not to mention the when and the why!

Scott and Andrew discuss the strategies around applying for the right jobs.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Value of assessments.
• Effective ways to find jobs.
• How to keep track of what resume you sent to which company and role.
• Power of instant gratification.
• Using creativity to understand different perspectives.

Resources (including affiliate links)

StrengthsFinder 2.0StrengthsQuest
StandOut 2.0 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:05 – 00:05:02

welcome to Job Seekers Radio I’ve Andrew and I’m Scott this production. His Mentor provide meaningful support to you the listener to find great careers faster. And that’s whether you’re working or not. Today’s episode is brought to you by the Anatomy of the networking conversation book. It’s a free resource. We have available for you to download at job. SEEKERS RADIO DOT COM go there today. Download is free. It’s free and it’s an e book that we put together a little while ago that we’ve found to be very helpful to people who who really want to look at networking and expanding their network. The big question we’re talking about today is how do I know what job to apply for when I look at the multitude of positions that are out there. It’s really hard hard to figure to pick and choose which ones to apply for because there are so many in fact when at the time were recording. This they’re seven million postings on just on linked it alone. I’ve loved this question and I get asked this from time to time simply because people don’t know how to do the job search. It’s not that they don’t know what job they want they do. They just haven’t figured out how to get there but I always come back with the question. What kind of job do you WANNA do? What Work Inspires you? What motivates you? What makes you feel like? Wow I get to go to do this job today. Certainly there is a finite number of jobs that does that that for you so start there and then you can start doing searches either on Lincoln or elsewhere to find out what jobs do that kind of work and start exploring. It’s often that I hear this question. Scott when someone is focused just on title and the title doesn’t always translate relate to the type of work they WANNA DO Company to company. It’s called something different exactly so that may that does make it more difficult. However if you’re looking at the skills kills you want to use in different jobs it opens up more doors that way within your search first step that we both recommend we talked about this? A lot is is identifying your strengths. Right so finding the strengths I will allow you to find titles. And that’s how I look I. I would encourage everybody on the podcast broadcasting listening determine what is it that you love to do more than anything professionally speaking. Of course. I like to play golf right. Take a walk. There are ways to even make that. What professional work? How would you do for example? Okay so you WanNa play you love playing golf and you like being around golfers you like the environment on on the golf course. You’re probably not going to get into the ranks of professional golfers that are making a living especially those making millions just playing playing golf right but there are so many jobs at the at the golf courses or if you like retail those who sell golf equipment and supplies apparel and all these things there are so many auxiliary jobs or ancillary jobs that actually ty to your passion and I’d say that’s a really good place to start if it’s not retail that you WanNa do you know that’s not your realm okay. What’s the manufacturing side looking like How can you get involved with people who are making the products tour or designing the services that go around there walking the dog? I actually you have a friend. He had corporate job. He wasn’t happy in it and then he had some health issues that took him out of the workforce for awhile when it was time to get back on his feet. He had healed field from the physical issues. He didn’t want to go back to the career he had had before. He’s now a professional dog walker. Is that a high paying job. No as you work through that and you’re working up your network you can actually start targeting the kinds of clients that will pay you more and he is making a decent living doing it. There are ways that you can take what you’re passionate about and make it into a job really quite directly. I heard something there that is really helpful full to me in probably a lot of people on the podcast. And that is determining what you love to do is one part of it determining how you like to do it or how you love executing on. That is something I think. A lot of people miss and so yes. I like to walk my dog but I like to do that in solitude while all. I’m listening to an audio book. Right and so part of that is okay now. I know how I like to deliver the the dog walk. That’s just an example. Now you just opened up another other ideas so I love listening to audio books. Assuming that every audio book is narrated by the author. Do you have A voice that lends itself to recording audiobooks. And how could you make that a job so that you’re you’re actually helping other other people enjoy the same thing you enjoy.

00:05:02 – 00:10:01

Is that a direct correlation. Maybe not you’re still involved so there are all sorts of things that you can start to explore. Is that going to. It’d be a fulltime job. Who knows and who are who are the companies that do that kind of work right? There’s actually I think a company in Ashland Oregon where they have the Shakespearean Festival estival. And what they do is when it’s the offseason all of these actors these Shakespearean actors which have these really interesting voices. They actually narrate the dramatic matic version of a lot of different audiobooks. And then they sell those online. That’s fantastic and I think you know. So thinking creatively sometimes is hard for people when they see the the carrot right there on Lincoln when they want to apply and they feel like they have to apply or they get into. I don’t know what it is about social media I am. I’m sure they have people working. There used to work at casinos. I’ve seen this before. So the casinos actually have people that Do Psychological analysis on. How do you get people to spend more money in the consume and so then they create video poker in these different things to increase increase? Somebody’s attention span for a long time on that thing and we know that social media does that those who provide it whether it’s facebook or any of the others they’re all trying to keep your attention longer and longer longer so he spent more time there presumably so that you buy more things through their advertising which sure okay yeah. We’ll we’ll set that part of the conversation aside. I think part of it has to be that instant gratification idea of. It’s much more complicated rated than that sounds the idea is we need to get that job now. I need to be applying for those jobs. I need to be looking for the things that are actually going to get me somewhere and I don’t have time time to think about the things that I love doing and why I love doing them and how I would do it. Well the way I look at that is this is your personal investment in your own career. If you’re not taking the time to figure out why you love doing what you do why you would want to continue doing that as a career or a part of that within the job. If you’re you’re not figuring that out you’re actually not setting yourself up to have a good interview when I can tell someone. This is why I want to work for you. Because you’re going to be able to trigger all these things that I love doing. I as an employer will think I’d like to hire that person because they are already going to be satisfied just by taking this job. I don’t have to convince them them of any of that. When we’re talking about finding out your strengths? We’re looking at those things that you do. Well that you enjoy doing one of the points I wanNa make on finding ending your strengths. There are actually books out there that will help you do that. One that I can’t come up first with is strengths finder which some of our listeners know about about. Maybe there are others. Who Don’t but every book that you buy in? It’s not an expensive book. But everyone gives you a unique link to taking an assessment. I’m a big believer lever in personal assessments. That are validated and reliable valid in the sense that they are going to accomplish what they say they’re going going to. They’re going to measure whatever it. Is there a lot of them out there. Anything that is free. You have to remember you get which pay for but if you’re paying for this book the chances are pretty good. That you’re you’re GONNA get a reliable assessment and I happen to feel very strongly positively towards the strengths finder. So you take the assessment. It tells you what your strengths are. Based on the way you took the assessment and then it actually talks about how you can utilize these strengths in your life. Presumably in your work if I I go into an interview and I’ve chosen something that I think is going to hang my triggers right based on my strength. I can talk to that hiring manager of the recruiter about the reasons why I want to work for that company in particular. Because as we’ve said in other podcasts you wanted to research you gotta figure out why this would would be a good fit. Because if you don’t do do your homework then they’re not going to take seriously if you know what your strengths are and you can speak intelligently about them. You’re actually giving yourself a leg up as you’re researching your strengths. Then you’re also going to be able to correlate that with the jobs that you’re looking for based on the the skills that those jobs say they’re going to be using the you’re looking at things from different perspectives. The Nice thing about strengths finder and the other one I recommended ended is a standout both have been influenced by Marcus Buckingham. And we’ll put those in the show notes links to those. The thing I like about both of those does is it gives you a set of language you can use when you’re talking to co workers or you’re going to an interview or you’re crafting your linked in profile or your put together a resume resume. Guess what you have a list of key words that describe who you are and I know that tailoring that language to a certain degree to the audience audience is a good idea.

00:10:01 – 00:15:02

It gives you a starting point and the Nice thing about that is we often talk on this podcast about brand and the Nice thing about these different assessments commits. Is You get to overlay your skill with a little bit of this branding language like for me. My top strength is learner and analytical right right no figure learner analytical now can take the language that you you know you open the book and it has a whole bunch of things there. Does this describe you. And there’s a whole page or more of things that describe you and it’s like that’s me that’s me and there’s a whole list of words you can grab and say. Yep that’s the one that describes me. I now put that on my folder. My my certainly onto your catalog it somewhat sure and when you start putting these things in the resume that you have a Lincoln Lincoln and can actually do some of the research for are you because it’s going to try to as long as you set up a job search function within the the site it now will match your resume based on those keywords to the jobs that come up. That’s another way to bring into your news feed so to speak the different positions. That may be a good match for you. Then once we have the language these words so to speak we can make some choices sir. We can start prioritizing that list we can do keyword searches on that list. We can identify companies companies titles. We can identify people that are using the same language that describe me and we can reach out to them and have a good conversation. Why because it’s likely we feel the same way or see the same perspective and add the same values so that would be a good conversation and if you’re going to link with someone on unlinked that you don’t know it’s always a good way to start out by telling them why his if you use your desktop to to get into Lincoln you will be able to to find a way to send them a message you don’t have to pay for it is just you can send a message that personalizes your connection request and you tell them? Hey Hey I saw on your linked profile that these are the things that you’re discussing or interested in or these are your skills and I’d like to have more conversation around that I think that’s a great great way to meet people to expand your network and to be talking about things that you’re actually passionate about. This allows you also to identify those jobs because now now I’m reaching out to a person who might be working at a company and I can see what title do they have scenario kind of put all these somewhat disparate. And maybe we sometimes esoteric words that describe me but lo and behold this person shows up and now I can look at their profile. Look at what they’re doing and ask some questions about how. How did you get into that business? What skills are required to be good at what you do and it doesn’t have to be someone local no? This isn’t trying to get the job from that person. This is just about talking to people who have similar skills or interests. And what have they done with that. Because that’s going to help you answer the question. What job you apply for? And then you’ve got all all the information you need to be successful. You know a person on the inside. You know the company you’ve had a good conversation. They recognized that you might be a fit for a role they might even ask view to apply. So here’s the thing you go to the seven million on linked in close your eyes and You know pick one lor. You could do something a little more proactive. And in your self interest to a certain degree I wouldn’t use the self interest to approach somebody else but I think it has to start inward I find the the most pushback from people that I talked to about especially those who were saying. I don’t know what I WANNA do when I grow up. I don’t know what job to apply for based on my background background. Whatever that is that they don’t put the time into doing the research and I understand that point of view? Research is not something that I would say I enjoy he doing. It’s certainly not fun to slow down the pace of getting out there and meeting people or putting out resumes or whatever that is because I it just I prefer keeping a fast pace research slows that down but I know that about myself and so if I can dedicate a certain amount of time to just doing the research I I benefit from that. If I’m not making time I never have time. I think that’s a could be filled philosophically. Said you can’t make time sure. I you have to invest the time. Yeah I have been is for those who are too busy. Nobody’s too busy to do what they need to do. It’s just that whatever is their priority. The in the moment is keeping them from doing something else. Fine that might be higher value right and recognizing them right okay so I would much rather send out ten resumes and then take take the rest of the day to sit at the beach. Great you know that about yourself own it. If you actually want that job or you want to figure out what job you WANNA do. You’re GONNA and a half to make that the priority. You’re going to spend your time doing that. It’s not a matter that people don’t have time it’s that they don’t make the time in the sense that they’re not making it a priority to spend their time.

00:15:02 – 00:20:01

Accordingly highest and best activity. I is a challenge that everybody has if you can see the end before. Were you seeing the beginning. That’s where I think. A lot of people trip up is they’re trying to go to the end without seeing the beginning. I and that’s what the applications do right they. Oh there’s the end and and that is the enticing part right because now it’s easy right it’s just a straight line we’ll have you ever then set out the the application and three three or four weeks later they come back to you and say okay. We’d like to interview you and all of a sudden you’re thinking I’ve just sent out three hundred applications over the last month. Which one is this and suddenly I have have to go back to it? Well if I’m applying things that have used my strengths that Have keywords about my skills I can start talking about this regardless because has I’m staying on message and your brand really doesn’t change who you are who you are. The things you do might be different the places in which you do that might change range but who you are and how you do. Things doesn’t change right. Like I know you will always be an expressive type. Yes right I will always be analytical. That’s just my thing you know. And so that part doesn’t change about me with that line of thought if you go into a highly expressive role. Are you going to be happy Hannah. Are you going to do as well as an analytical role. Now I’m not saying you shouldn’t it may be that that’s exactly the way your growth will benefit you in the long run and you probably you have skills. Doing the reverse is true of me. Do I really want an analytical job. Well that isn’t the first thing. Choose because analysis is not my thing. Strategy is is my top strength. That analyst position could help me build the strategy so that the next position that I man would actually be the strategic position within the company their sway wait stay out of my analytical space. Yeah okay okay. I promise I won’t compete with you for that role. I have space. Oh Yeah on the other side of this Scott and you kind of touched on it in what you said is there’s things here that you’re just not good at or don’t appreciate her or do do well and maybe that’s the research part of things and sometimes you can hire somebody to help walk you through that. And that’s where the value of a coach is really important where you can get. Some value is hire somebody to help you with these things. If you don’t know right I can’t think of the name of the website but but I know there’s one. There’s probably several where you can actually find tutors. That can help you with these things if you’re not going to connect with a professional coach because you’re afraid they will charge too much or whatever I totally get that. There are other avenues to find people who can coach you through the things that you need to up your game on or whatever that is I would also your point on research. I have learned how to do good research. I’ve never learned to enjoy it. I love the outcome Of It so I’m willing to make the effort but there are going to be things that just aren’t my strength so I have to remember that it’s GonNa take me longer to build my skills in my the weaknesses that it would be to build my skills and my strengths which is part of the message from strengths quest and strength finders and Martin respective and yet that tired of going into grow more when dealing with your strengths. That doesn’t mean that’s the only thing you should be doing. We’re suggesting use that to find the kinds of jobs that will resonate with you. That will align with your values that are going to keep you motivated. Don’t pigeonhole yourself in. That either. Talked to coaches talk to people in your network work go to the networking events to have conversations about new ideas. Because if you say to someone I’ve had ten years of experience in this and I’m really looking for something something that’s going to take me out of my coverage zone and okay that’s great. What are your skills? Be ready for that part of the conversation. Then pay attention to what you hear. Yes and and take the advice and then ask another question when I find is people take the advice but they only hear what they want to hear and what they don’t hear or or at least seek is that a person’s perspective on why they see that and often. When I find even with people that I know really well is? They’ll say something and I’ll take it as their opinion when in reality I should take it as what they observed me doing and often their perception is their reality and it may not be mine. That’s that’s absolutely true your perceptions going to indicate a different reality from what they’re doing so that that conversation here we go back to the the book that never been conversation has to be a series of questions so that you’re digging a little deeper again to understand the other person’s perspective not just asking the question to reply that does it for for this episode of Job Seekers Radio. There’s all the show notes in resources available for you at job. Seekers radio DOT COM forward slash zero. Six four go to to our website.

00:20:01 – 00:21:31

Download the Anatomy of networking conversation e book and then as you go into the depths of the content give feedback icon this. What is it that if there’s a question that you have that we haven’t answered yet or if you’ve run into a networking situation that is different from what we’re talking about bringing that up so we can address those? You can leave comments. Right on the webpage for this episode you can also click the contact us button if you have any questions that will come to us by email. Either way as perfectly acceptable Eh. We and we do want the question. Yes we do occasionally have episodes where we address or respond to questions that we get from the listeners. And we want feature one of your questions in fact for those who continue to listen. We’re we know that another QNA episode is coming up soon. Well thank you for joining. Ask for this episode. Your investment of time and attention is greatly appreciated If you’re on the itunes platform go ahead and go there and subscribe to get future episodes while there. We’d really appreciate if you just give a rate and review. It allows us to make this a better product for you and also spreads the message of hope and missile in terms of networking for the jobs. That you really want. We’d love to reach more people so I’m Scott and I’m Andrew in the words of Marcel Proust. The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes. But in having you is perspective makes everything is perspective bye-bye.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Understanding your satisfaction is within your control can be liberating. Scott and Andrew discuss the Top Secret, that #1 thing you can do, to ensure your job satisfaction.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Being an advocate for your own satisfaction.
• The difference between fitting in and being in.
• How language and identity can work together.
• Consistency in your brand presentation.
• The value of a cover letter.
• Defending your own needs without being defensive.
• Identifying Key Factors of Satisfaction.
• Where to find support for your satisfaction.
• How to communicate your areas of satisfaction. 

Resources (including affiliate links)

Branding Episodes on Job Seekers Radio 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:06 – 00:05:13

welcome to job seekers radio. I’m Andrew and I’m Scott. This production is meant to provide you meaningful support defined great careers faster whether you’re working or not today’s episode. We’re talking about the secret to advocating for your own own satisfaction and this episode is brought to you by the anatomy of a networking conversation. It’s an e book that Scott I have put together. That walks you through through step by step along with companion audio which is wonderful by the way we’ve been so and that’s a free resource for you to download at job seekers radio DOT COM Tom. It’s a free gift for you. We want to talk about advocating for satisfaction because so often we send out lots of applications. We we have some interviews and we’re always trying to fit into what the company wants or what. The interviewer wants its natural right or want to to put our best foot forward. We WanNA make sure we’re we’re demonstrating to them or being considerate. There is a difference between changing how I appear and using their language. And so that’s what we want to talk about today is how does how do we avoid changing who we are appearing to change who we are just to to succeed in an interview requires a lot of preparation. Sure does okay but if we look at how you’re preparing now that requires a lot of preparation preparation of course because as they say it always takes a lot more energy to remember a lie because you have to wait the lie. It’s much easier to remember truth because truth is the truth. Well it’s on its own and you think about it if you’re sending out a lot of applications in your tailoring every single bit of the language language to that are you going to remember when they actually get back to you two weeks later which set up oh my goodness which which version of this language am. I supposed to us now. We want to help you avoid that problem and instead to really advocate for your own satisfaction on the job satisfaction within the interview. You know what you want you know what you like. Hopefully and if not that’s where your preparation is going to start. You know the kind of environment you want to be working in what your values are and again if not not find that out you should be looking for someone who meets your needs not just the other way around and you should know what feels like you and what doesn’t so if you’re using the right keywords to get through an automated system by all means go for it. Don’t change who you are. Don’t change your language to the extent that you’re changing changing everything about your presentation just to meet somebody else’s expectations authentic. Who Do you become when each time? You change that message to align with the job It’s almost like you’re a chameleon I’ve seen this have very negative repercussions sure. Psychologically we have identity confusion will not not only that but then you start to question when you see someone who is we say. They interviewed well. They were able to adapt to the interview. But then once they’re on the job for a while their true colors show and that’s true for all of us and so when they see that the person who shows up for work six months later isn’t the person who had interviewed. But now we’re wondering what’s going on and that sets you up for failure on some level instead. What we’re talking about here is when when you try to be all things to all people? You probably won’t be very good for any of them and instead what we’re looking for when when we are interviewing candidates ended its we’re looking for the person who is the right fit but for whom we will also be a good fit and if you’re really changing what you look like the way a chameleon would to meet all the criteria of your environment. You’re not actually helping me as a recruiter to determine whether or not your the right candidate ended and whether or not we’re the right company for you and that should come out in a dialogue even worse if you’re applying over and over again to the same company each time time you’re changing who you are and each time it’s going to the same. Recruiter is not doing you any justice you feel worse. Why well because because they’re now rejecting the crappy you right? You didn’t even put the good you out there. And now they’re rejecting the crappy you and how does that make you feel instead. What helps issue is for them to know how interested you are in working for them? That’s something else you need to prepare for and to communicate at some point I I know when I have seen means someone apply to my company repeatedly and I get the message okay. This person wants to work here now. I’m going to read the cover letter if I hadn’t before I will. Now why do you want to work here. That becomes a critical piece of information for that. Cover letter if there’s a way to say it in the application so much the better. Here’s an opportunity for me to actually see the same person showing up every time maybe tweaking a word here there to understand showing their understanding of the the needs for this role that actually would intrigue me now again.

00:05:13 – 00:10:13

This is assuming it gets passed the automated system but even so I wanNA know why and so if I see that this person shows up completely differently in the three or four submissions. They’ve made I don’t know which one is real. Well it’s like somebody saying okay. I’m going to apply for this accounting counting job in this sales job and this completely different of assistant young like Oh my gosh. Are you qualify for any of them. I don’t know I’m now confused and and frustrated with you as a candidate because I don’t know where you fit as we go through this if I know what I want from my job I know what my skill set is and how how my skills can transfer to this company how I would make them available to them and use them on the job and I stick to that and I defend myself so to speak not meaning. Yeah I get defensive. But then I’m advocating Danda my value. Now they’re getting here consistent message regardless of the positions I’m applying for and they can can have an idea of what to expect when they call in and then when you interview. Guess what it’s coming from your heart right right because that’s who you are it matters to you. Stick to your guns right B.. Who you are not what others want you to be brings up the question? How do I know if I’m doing it? Well well you feel it feels different and you you. Andrew have made the comment several times over the course of of these podcasts. About your personal brand when you are promoting your personal personal brand the value you bring to your work into your employer has a different feel you feel it. They feel it. And that’s when things you start to click and don’t think you’re wrong if you don’t have that yet it just means you haven’t got it down yet and that makes perfect you some discovery. Ask yourself some questions. When do I feel most fulfilled the idea? We have a bunch of episodes on this. I’m sure you could go find them on. Branding yes we’ve done and how to identify gentrify those things the most important part of this concept though is when you feel your brand and you’re talking about it with enthusiasm and passion and confidence that shines through now that doesn’t guarantee you’ll get the job but it does mean that you’re having debt sincere moment. You’re advocating for what you’re looking for for and you are far more likely to land the job that will bring you satisfaction. I being that good at communicating when you get to the interview step into the shoes of the hiring team. Let’s say they’re going to interview six candidates. How many of those candidates do you think are trying to fit? Every single box walks on that requisition they’re an auditor that’s a strategy insurance. Of course what happens when you do exactly the same thing. Well I’m GonNa do it better. Okay let’s hope but to me I’m thinking you’re probably going to sound like all the others we’re gonNA sound like parrots. I’m pleased to know that you have read. The job. Description internalized analyzed at. But what do you bring to the table. You’re leaving that question. Let me go through my laundry. List of every fifteen minutes. I’m going to tell you how I fit every single piece so this job. Yeah of all of those fifteen things. What really motivates you? What gets you fired? All of it really right. See see how. That’s a challenge orange. Yeah that you’re you’re now vulnerable because now each of those six candidates is selling the same story and you won’t stand out you’ll look exactly like a fool. Well well maybe not a fool you may be really still. It’s the idea of know your brand be able to promote your brand to stick to that and to be enthusiastic about got it because that enthusiasm is contagious. And that can work for you on the job too. So this isn’t just a conversation for the job seeker. Line okay. Even though there’s this job seekers radio radio once you’re on the job and you might be listening this because you’re dissatisfied with the job you have sure and this is a way for you to say well wait a minute I do have have value. I do have strengths. I do have these things and you know what I need to have a conversation with my leadership. Whatever that looks like even if they’re impotent that this is the stuff i WanNa do you sure and what’s really interesting to watch that leader how they respond because if they’re truly interested and and do everything they can to help you you? That’s where the loyalty really starts right. But if they keep telling you know that’s not going to work because and you can’t get past that it may be that there’s somebody else in your organization or somewhere else that you need to be talking to because it’s possible that your leader is not going to be able to help you. That doesn’t mean that your leader doesn’t like you or doesn’t care or doesn’t see your value value. It simply means that that is not the person that’s going to help you move forward. Don’t waste your time with that person start networking within your organization to see where else you might be able to have that satisfaction and talked to those leaders who could bring you into it or look outside your organization to find the company that is going to value you when when we think about advocating for our own satisfaction too often.

00:10:13 – 00:15:06

We are afraid to do that because of what we think. We’re going to lose. When in fact by getting something we don’t like like we lose a lot more? This is the litmus test actually for good leadership and what that means is if you share something like that with a good leader. They’re going to be so happy that that you shared that with them because they can’t read your mind they think you’re completely satisfied unless they hear otherwise or worse they see your productivity or or quality. Ready go down because now you’re entering more dangerous territory by giving them this information about what you’re passionate about what you really want to be doing. They can help you figure throughout your roadmap to your satisfaction to your success without that. They can’t help you if they refused to help you. For whatever reason. And we’re not making a judgment Richmond if they refused to help you then. That’s your cue that you need to take that conversation elsewhere. Be Confident in doing that. Let’s do a little. What if what if if you advocated for this thing that you love doing and they say wow this is great? We need more of that. Well you might get that job okay. Okay and if you’re working there you might get more that work. What if you stick to your guns in the interview? And that’s exactly what they need. Don’t be afraid to succeed succeed. Because that’s what’s going to happen is that you’re going to demonstrate number one. You have energy you have a you’re standing up for something that matters to you and it matters matters to them. Wow Wow that’s interesting. It’s an overlap. This is why networking is so valuable to by the way as you get to identify those things in advance. Maybe even create a position for yourself. Alf Love that highly valuable. So the secret for advocating for your own satisfaction starts with knowing what satisfies you too often. We both talked to the people who really haven’t done that kind of internal work. They haven’t really figured out what the key factors are what the foundations of satisfaction are for them. It’s usually I usually something that sort of unformed that oh well you know I want to help people and I want to help my company be successful and I don’t WanNa work tons ends of overtime or maybe I do but it ends up being vague. What is it about those things that actually keeps you satisfied knowing that gives you your talking points that only it happens through experience and a little bit of self awareness absolutely and so if you haven’t exactly if you have enough experience you’ve done things you didn’t like you done things you probably have liked and you’ve had jobs that were good and you’ve had once Soga and it’s looking at all of those experiences as unique and even though Oh you may have had a job that was eighty percent crap? They’re still twenty percent there. That was good. What was that? What was the document? How did it Saturday’s yeah? Yeah and how did it satisfy you. That’s a difficult thing to do if you’re working right now and everything is coming down on top of you sure you don’t like anything you’re doing and you have an impotent leader jerk for posser answer or whatever we have that place okay. I can’t seem to get ahead there at the job. Eighty percent of what I do not enjoying who can when you talk to about the twenty percent you do enjoy so you can start writing down or noting whether in your head or on paper you take note of what what is that satisfies you why it satisfy issue how it does so. Those are the things that you’re talking about when you’re working within your organization or when you’re networking working to get into an organization because that twenty percent is what you want to focus on. That’s even team meetings or presentation. Sure or a train. Part of the eighty twenty the theory. Yeah of course well the people here in front of you you may not be networking with them. But you’re you’re having a team meeting about what about a project you’re working on and so there’s nothing and it says you can’t advocate for the type of stuff you want to do in that project at Salt Lake that you want to volunteer for that. You want to jump right in and grab for yourself not that you want. WanNa be selfish. But you want to advocate for those shorts and an easy way to out is. Hey this is my experience. I really enjoy doing that. How can I help you with this project or is is there something I can do to support you? In these efforts and generally speaking they will see your willingness to support and help not necessarily. You’re trying to go after the things you enjoy and this might be a team or a group or a project where you’re you’re cross functional now and you didn’t know these people before and you’re presenting yourself to them and all of a sudden I’ve captured some of their mind space if you will they’re now associating me with this thing that I enjoy. And now they’re thinking maybe of other people in the organization organization that need that and when they cross up. You know so. We’re planting seed always planting seeds. This is how you become a champion for yourself and for for your own abilities and it’s not because you’re self absorbed and you’re trying to step on people to get into a higher position.

00:15:06 – 00:17:43

It’s that you’re advocating for the things that really bring you satisfaction ATIS faction in the workplace in your work and it’s not just a job. It’s what you’re bringing we will encourage you to push for. What brings you that satisfaction at work to talk about those things in ways that motivate others to think of you in that term and you will probably be feeling better better about the the the job that you get and as soon as you get all of those ideas put together you now have a brand and how beautiful is at that? You have a brand. That’s around the things you I love to do. You can start displaying that brandon a lot of different places and if you’re at a corporate place the first place I’d look is the signature block on my email right. Let’s put a little thing there. It says hey you know I love doing X.. Okay but let’s say your signature. You have to follow a certain format for the signature. If you’re fortunate your company will allow a certain the amount of personalization based on the department that you’re in or the work that you’re doing for example. I am able to show that I am certified in the pro. Cy Change Management Methodology as well as disks certified trainer and so these are things that can help me to sort of bring attention to the fact that these are tasks or duties that I really enjoy doing. There’s always based on an email. We even even even above the the corporate logo. That’s right that’s right tation. I love doing this work. Thank you for for talking to me. Sincerely your your your corporate trainer. Was Par excellence. Thank you for joining us today. You can find all the show notes and resources at job. Seekers radio DOT COM forward slash zero six three. Remember that you have a free free. Racehorse there at job. SEEKERS RADIO DOT COM. It’s called the anatomy of a networking conversation. It’s an e book that you can download right from our site and it has companion companion audio with it so if you’re somebody who likes multimedia diverse learning blended learning. I don’t know what they call it. Well if you’re listening to a podcast you probably like to hear us. Yes so awfully we. Also there is companion audio with that so I want to thank you from the bottom of our hearts. Your investment of time and attention is really appreciated. Whoever thought that people would actually listen to US Scott? I know we’re doing this just out of a Labor of love. We keep hearing from many of you. We appreciate you being here. We do for those those of you. Who may be new to our podcast? We want to suggest that you head over to I tunes and subscribe to get future episodes. And while you’re there please give give us a rate and review so we get your feedback because

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

“Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the assessment that something else is more important than fear.” – Franklin D. Roosevelt

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Can’t eliminate fear, can only manage it.
• pros and cons review action and non-action alternatives
• getting out of your own head by helping others get out of theirs
• thinking about the things you fear on paper
• turning fear into self-advocacy
• reaching to outside resources like a coach, therapist, or EAP.
• Understanding conflict and gaining new perspectives
• Role reversal technique: would you help others if in the same situation?
• Turn to the people who care about you
• Baby Steps
• ACRONYM: False Evidence Appearing Real
• build self confidence and safety through considering all the alternatives
• identify fear and mitigate its impact
• what are your decisions based on and are they helping you?
• process of letting go and trying NEW things
• making proactive decisions

Resources (including affiliate links)

Move: What about Bob?

What Color is Your Parachute

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:02 – 00:05:09

Welcome to Job Seekers Radio I’m Andrew. I’m Scott this production is meant to provide you the listener meaningful support to fight great careers faster, and that’s whether you’re working or not. Today’s episode is brought to you by the anatomy of a networking conversation e book. It’s a free resources you can download at job. Seekers radio DOT COM in today’s show. We’re talking about making career decisions without fear. Now I don’t know if you’re ever goes away. No, it’s an. It’s a manageable thing maybe depending on. Yeah. and. Really we brought this to the four because of a lot of things that are going on, not only in our our lives, maybe or even in our coaching interactions, but also in just in the world in society. In general, we’re dealing with a pandemic. We have the black lives matter movement. We have a lot of political unrest going on just within the United States, not to mention what’s going on around the world. There’s a lot going on that. Can create fear and so we’re just going to talk about career in the job search and again. That’s whether you’re working or not. Fear is involved. Regardless of where you are it, it’s one of those things where you might even feel like. Is it really fear or is there some other emotional feeling? It’s great to explore that and that’s basically where we’re going to go and we acknowledge. Right Scott that outside influences can either fuel or Exacerbate your fear. So we’re not gonNA cover that part of it, but we acknowledged that that exists we’re talking about. Is it possible? Is it possible to make career decisions without fear? Yeah I. Remember I’m going to paraphrase probably badly, but I believe I know it was an army general that said it. I believe it was pat that made the comment that fear. Courage is not the absence of fear, but the ability to act well in spite of it and again that’s probably a poor paraphrase, but you get the just, and I like to come back to that thought whenever I am looking at something that is triggering fear in me. Is that if I can make progress? However, small that progress is if I’m still moving in the right direction. It’s still progress can I do that while managing my fear, and that’s really what works for me, the idea of managing it not getting rid of it. You can’t I can’t i. in fact I read an article not too long ago. That suggested that those who actually do act without any. That’s a disorder so. That helps me feel better about managing my fears well when I first heard that question I was like well. Maybe maybe you can manage these career decisions without herb. Maybe not it really just depends on your perspective absolutely, and now if you look at it from a position of being employed in you have assets in the bank, and all these different things, then you’ve built up really a fortress of protection where making decisions is a little bit easier because you’re not fearful of what may happen. So really. It just depends on each person’s perspective. In how you process these different things you might be thinking about. That’s a really good point that if you’ve got a lot of different options whether that’s through planning or any other thing, you know you’ve got the money in the bank you. You’re now living with your. Boyfriend or girlfriend suddenly this. It’s not just your income. All of these things are different ways of coming back to that. What are my options? What it? Where is my fortress? That’s a good idea. And letting go of one thing for another is something I kept. Thinking about is that Hey, I’ve invested my time. My energy my skills. In this place that I’m out or just come from. Can It really let go of that and grab something else in there? Some fear there? Because guess what there’s change anytime, there’s change there’s fear and anxiety and disruption, and you go through these different cycles, and some of it also might be job search related right I look at job. Search and I used to do job search this way, and now I need to let go of that and try a different way, so we really advocate the networking piece. That’s why we give people. The Anatomy of networking conversation e-book is to give them the tools to be successful in doing something different. So that means hey, maybe I have to let go a little bit of what I think. Job Search should be and try something that’s different at to move forward so let go of one thing and going to another sometimes can create fear, but it also creates opportunity possibility shirt, right? It’s all based on perspective.

00:05:09 – 00:10:02

You remind me of an Oprah Winfrey quote that a friend told me I I can’t quote her specifically, and it was many years ago, but the idea is. She was talking about money and making money and bringing money into your life the. The concept was you are holding on to the money that you have so tightly that your hands are closed. They are not open to accept more this I think applies in the idea. When you you have to let go of something. If you’re going to grab something new, you don’t really have a choice. So what does that look like coming back to managing the fear? Don’t let go of the thing that’s keeping you alive, but you like other things that are just nice to have right I was talking to somebody recently, who didn’t want to give up his. starbucks that he would go every afternoon to get his tea iced coffee, and just this was a tradition that he’d been doing for many years now, and it’s just. It’s what kept him feeling grounded and life continues so because I can count on getting this, and without addressing the fact that he is spending. How much money every week on coffee! It’s like you’ve got a an expresso machine at home. Make, you’ll save money? But he he didn’t want to let go of the the cocoon comfort that that routine brought him. Okay, it’s a decision fine now. Don’t complain too hard about not having an extra fifty dollars a week, but I mean who knows what comes after complacency, but maybe. Adversity because I think if you stand still for too long something, something’s GonNa Knock. You over. So here’s the thing is that he found that thing and hugh hooked onto it in that brought him safety and that so that I think that’s natural for all of us to be seeking some degree of safety or comfort now if we don’t have it somewhere else. And that is within his control, and really. If we’re talking about control in fear, they’re kind of. Two sides of the same coin sometimes is that that that which you don’t control creates fears, alright and right, and yet. What are you really control? We’re GONNA. Talk about that actually on a future episode, but I think part. This is really deciding what it is. That seems so fearful, yes, and seeing how to mitigate or manage that. Interesting timing I woke up this morning from a dream. Truly was I ended. No. No A networking colleague friend of mine was in it interestingly and we to try and make it very short. We were sneaking into his friends building. His friend had the PENTHOUSE in a high rise, and we were going to camp out on rooftop, which was against the rules, and so for some reason we were taking a back door to get up to his friends penthouse, but the back door, the back stairwell and and elevators didn’t open into his this this penthouse you had to go outside on an eight inch ledge to then walk at the top of the building, bright walk into over to his friends. A penthouse and his kids are in there. I can see them through a window. They’re playing. My friend went in. He didn’t have any problem walking on this eight inch ledge, however, many hundred feet above the air above the ground he walked in, and it’s like I have a phobia. Falling I cannot do this. And by the end of the dream I came to the decision. That I am not going to try I’m not doing this because I’m going to honor this feeling in myself. I’m not going to do that. I will find something else to do so here. We get to the point. Let’s say you are the type where you simply are too afraid to go to that networking event. Don’t. Don’t kill yourself. Or get into that existential fear. If that’s where you’re gonNA. Go find other ways because it’s finding the alternatives that is going to build your self confidence, so the idea of. Am I going to be uncomfortable. Will by all means jump into that you’ll learn how to get comfortable. Are you going to be gripped with terror? Maybe you don’t want to do that. And, that’s okay. Baby steps. Yeah, it’s like that movie. What about Bob Have you seen that now? I haven’t been steps out the door baby steps.

00:10:02 – 00:15:08

Now I have a vote. It’s a great movie. You should see what about Bob. I’ll put that in the in the show. Like to see that. Sometimes, they think of fear. You can think of fear as an acronym and many people call it false evidence appearing real, yes, and what that means mentioned that in an earlier. I’m sure that we have. And it bears repeating in in the current time. It’s hard to find peace anywhere today. Yeah, other than my backyard. And I love doing. Yard therapy. I Love Garden therapy myself. You and I are on the same. It’s there. But you’re right. Doing things that that scare you I think is different than things terrify you. Yes, because there could be something that scares you, but you’re using that maybe as a mild excuse not to do anything, but then there may truly be something that terrifies you like walking on an eight inch ledge. You know however many stories that sky. And and you’re right. However, there’s always a baby step. That’s why I brought up. What about Bob? There’s always a baby steps you could take. Yes, what is one small step by could take to get more comfortable with networking? Maybe that’s downloading the anatomy of a networking conversation. Maybe that’s just practicing with a trusted friend yeah. I don’t know what that looks like I mean we can’t go to starbucks and tap somebody on the shoulder anymore. That’d be a little weird. But I think about a conversation. I was having with someone who really were they said Oh. I can’t ask my family to do that. Why had not if if you’re with people who truly care about you? They will probably say oh, by all means, please. Practice makes perfect I. don’t care who you practice with I. don’t care if it’s the dog practice. There isn’t anyone who cares about you that you cannot go to. If you cannot go to them. They don’t care enough about you. Put that where it belongs right, but turn to the people who do care about you because they will I promise you. They will work with you on. This is more important to get the practice going. For those of you, that may find that difficult and still challenging I always flip it around right if the roles were reversed. From a hundred eighty degree perspective and someone came to you for help, would you? Would you say us? Yeah? And what would you do and how would you help? Yeah, right, so you’d walk through the steps. Okay, so then you doing the same thing for that other person or to that without the person makes a whole lot of sense. Doesn’t it right? I had that same conversation with a number of people? And that’s okay. One of the things conflict coaching that we talk about as the main idea of dealing with conflict is to gain another perspective, and there’s a lot of guessing and making suctions and everything to gain that perspective, but the idea isn’t to suddenly let go of the conflict it’s. How do you manage that? We yourself because that’s where conflict conflict really exists. If you have actually done something about it. You know you have. Responded to that person review retaliated. You’ve done something to make them upset. Now you’re into dispute separate process. Gaining another perspective is going to help you, and so if that’s what would you do to help the other person? They came to you with the same idea. What would they say? How would you respond? If. They said to you what you said to me. How would you tell that other person? Listen to your own advice. Well, it having not everybody is self directed that way. Of course. That’s why this podcast exists, so you can get that perspectives and maybe tried out, but some people may need to leverage resources, and whether that’s through a friend or family members kind of the low bar. If you will the safe space to start, these things other people may need outside help from say a coach like. US or Some sort of career job, catcher, counselor, or e AP, or whatever yeah, I would say first of all if you are currently working and you have your working for a company that has an employee assistance program. They often have counselors. Counselors will be able to give you some job coaching as well as personal coaching. And the company pays for that that that is available to you. If you can’t afford a coach well, if you can’t afford a coach, please. Hire a coach because they probably if they’re charging. They’re probably experienced enough to be able to help now. You have to go through some with them. therocess. See if they’re going to be helpful to you, but with that said I do recommend hiring someone if you have the wherewithal to do so if you cannot.

00:15:09 – 00:20:04

There are a number of places that offer sliding scales, and if you seriously, if you have zero money, which especially during this pandemic, there are people who have gone through all their resources. Trust me had been there. I feel for you. There are services out there where it’s unending scale, and if that means zero, you pay zero talk to someone. Find someone the end and there are a. it’s a quick Google search in your area, and because people will do this over the phone. These resources are available. Do your research and that that same research is valid even though EA. The Police Assistance Program is free software company, but it’s free. Using employee doesn’t mean you shouldn’t still do your your vetting or your research, and and you know what I found is just doing that research in explaining my situation, too many people to see if there’s a fit I actually get a resolution. As you’ve talked us. Talk to your four or five times. What these different people and you’re like I’m good. I feel better now. If you’re looking for a specific outcome, great five conversations with different coaches, you made realize what outcome you actually want and then can start working towards that that’s great. If you’re also like a I, can’t think of his name and he didn’t know what he wanted to do. Okay, that’s a different question, so you don’t know what outcome you want. Let’s talk about what you’re actually interested in doing because if you. If you don’t know what you’re going to make at the end of this cooking session. Anybody’s guess which agreements are going to work for you right often. I see people that I coach always look at the end right there. Looking at the end before they’ve seen the beginning and the challenge with that is if you, if the end is a moving target, and it’s moving around with every job posting. You’re seeing you don’t know what the end is trying to. Get, you have what’s called entity crisis. Yeah, now that’s a great point and part of that is just looking past your fear and saying okay, this is what I love to do, and that’s more like self, advocacy and say. Hey. I have permission to be happy. I have permission to do things I. Enjoy I have permission. It’s your life your career. You get to choose what you WANNA do. Now that, said once you choose what you WANNA. Do make sure you advocate for it, and that’s what we’re talking about with the networking and. That’s something that has helped me overcome. Fear personally is saying this is what I enjoy doing, and if it’s something that’s strong enough. There’s nothing GonNa stop me. You. Know what I mean I. Do and I you. You reminded me of someone that I’ve been talking to recently who? Has a great deal of skill. He’s got great experience. He’s a musician great experience. As a teacher, a middle school music teacher, and for whatever reason he left that job and to make money, he took a job in financial services well, he doesn’t feel very strongly about financial services. He in fact doesn’t really enjoy the job and he’s. He’s told me recently. He’s been kicking himself for taking the job in the first place because it doesn’t align with his personal values, it was decent money and provided a regular paycheck, and he’s been there for like five years five years in a job. He doesn’t like it well. The the work itself he likes because it helps people, and that’s really what he’s about is helping people and helping them. What I really appreciate about him and why we become good friends is he keeps telling me you. Do you don’t fit into somebody? Else’s idea what you’re supposed to be you, do you? And that’s his his goto phrase you, do you be you one of the other and so here? He is giving the advice of Ugo. Be You go, do you and yet? He’s not. And When he finally admitted to me that he’s got six months of income in the bank, he could be without work. For six months? He is in a relationship. He is not the only is. In the household. And he said to me one of his fears is, he has a chronic health condition. He needs the insurance and I asked him well. Have you used the obamacare for lack of a better ACC? Yes, thank you. I asked him. Have you used the benefits in the past? Well, no, okay well, they are available to you. There are a range of different programs you can get on, and of course they they have different prices.

00:20:04 – 00:25:22

You have a spouse or another person. You might be able. That’s a qualifying event short. Get on their their insurance. The difficulty though is that he he has very specific needs that may or may not be covered irrespective of a pre existing condition what he uses. He uses equipment that may not be covered by all insurance. Okay, that’s great that that is a reasonable fear. He also told me that on July third. He’s going to have his next health checkup. Where every all the prescriptions and everything else that he needs will be taken care of and I told him. If you don’t tell me the following Monday that you’ve tended your resignation, I’m going to ask you why because you have all the resources available to you and you have skills that are going to be needed again just within a few months, so you probably won’t go that whole time without work waiting to say and if you can teach music remotely. Yeah, he’s amazing I. Know Him through. E learning authoring and other Internet based work. There isn’t anything he can’t do in things that drive him. So here were overcoming a fear of reasonable fear. But you have the resources set up. It comes back to what you mentioned at the beginning. He established a fortress. Avail yourself of it. Take advantage of that. Well I mean that’s a good point. If you have some sort of extenuating circumstance, your false evidence, appearing real is that you will, you will not have access to any of that stuff. When you leave someplace else, you can go procure it on the open market right, and it just may be a little more expensive right, but it’s not as expensive as Cobra Right which and that’s where his fear was base because when he was when he left teaching Gig. He paid for Cobra with insanely expensive. Anybody who pays for it it well that that doesn’t transition to something else I very soon afterwards I. It was crazy. I did years ago one of my layoffs and I. I let it lapse because I couldn’t afford it. Yeah, well, in spite of the fear, I think one of the more practical things that we can do is think about these things on paper. Look at the pros and cons just lay everything out and and see with the logical. That’s hard for some people, especially if they’re feeling type people to see the logical solution, right or the logical next step with that’s where conversation with other people comes in I. I’m one of those I feel my decisions I if I don’t believe in it, I don’t make that decision if I do make the decision. Even when the logic wasn’t a part of it I I admit that hopefully I have the sense to talk to my logically minded friends, because they’re the ones that come back and say. Did you consider this? What is going to be the outcome of that? And they helped me see the logic so that we had a mini coaching session right before. Before the podcast at seriously, and this is one of the things that networking can do for us now it’s it’s a little different in the zoom world anymore. With the pandemic going on and people are staying socially distant. We’re doing everything on online, but you still have the ability to get. Those other perspectives staten. That can help ground you when you need that especially, if you’re dealing with fear well, if the fear is coming from the outside world like that from pandemic and black lives of whatever you know, all those things are valid right almost. Conversation. Right what we need is more conversation, not less right and we can’t. We can’t use this as an excuse not to reach out and have a conversation with somebody. I’m thinking even right now. Somebody I should probably write their name named L. Because I needed to contact them because they’re not. They’re not in the healthy place, right and what they needed somebody to reach out to them to maybe calm their fears, not not do deal with their fused just calm. Those fears a little. One of the things that you just triggered, my head was the idea of carrying the way to the world on your shoulders. I didn’t mean to trigger you by the way. Don’t don’t turn me into human resources. To wait a minute you. But It’s true many especially those who who have a great deal of empathy we carried away to the world on our shoulders, and were were getting in our own way so again, getting other perspectives, talking to other people about their situations is a really good way to start looking things a little more objectively. Another idea that I ran across before we got together today. Today was the idea of doing things for other people, and it really is about getting out of your own head, and getting into helping others get out of their heads, and it’s really interesting how that can turn your own thinking around just by involving yourself with other people, and and if if this current day and age hasn’t shown US something is that? Maybe we’ve been a little too selfish.

00:25:22 – 00:30:04

A little low empathy, and we should demonstrate to others more compassion, right and help them by getting groceries, or you know if if they need their lawn cut and they can’t physically do it. Go do that for them. So sure There’s lots of things that we all can do, and you can probably think listener right now. There’s there’s people that have basic needs right now that you could fill, but really it’s taking inventory. What is your? What is your head space? Look like today and what consuming most of that space and. Once you acknowledge it and can see it. You can work with it I I think about conversation I had with one of my kids when she was still in middle school. And the idea of there is no truth that I cannot handle. Because if it’s true, I know where to start or at least I know what I need to be working toward in this case. If you’re looking for a job, okay with that. If, you’re clear on what that job needs to be. Keep working towards that. Networking is our primary recommendation that there are other things that we can do when my head space is now filled up with whatever’s happening in the world. Your idea getting it on paper. Maybe that’s typing and onto your computer screen. Whatever works for you getting out of your head onto? Something else can really helped to focus the mind. It also helps you to stop thinking about all the other things that you’re reading on social media or whatever if you’re like me where you you go to social media to connect with your friends, and then you start getting upset because of all the things that posting don’t go to social media, right or connect with that friend in a different way. Come on right is that? Anyway brought me back to something I read a number of years ago. About someone who was saying, call me you send him a text message. They respond with. Call me you leave a voicemail voicemail. They’re not going to leave another voicemail for you. Other than say call me and they are forcing their friends to actually talk and I would recommend that. Don’t text people don’t send emails to people. Talk to people, so if you are overwhelmed if you’re fearful, whatever it is talk to people because it makes a difference in how you process thinking sometimes fear. Is You not wanting to take a risk in there certainly is risk, but there’s also reward is, so we talked earlier about. The reason I bring up is that people are often fearful because they think they’re taking a risk in your mind can play tricks on you. That’s Oh. That’s a risk. But, then you don’t get the reward either. One of the things in coaching practice that we talk about is look at the pros and cons. Everything has a risk doing nothing has risks sometimes doing nothing is the right thing to do. Because the risk of doing something are greater time not sure that that’s always true right? Look at the pros and cons figure out what your alternatives are. What are the pros and cons? What are the pros and cons for others who are involved in the conversation? And then you have a more logical rational way of looking at what those risks are because if it turns out that change actually provides less risk than staying the same. It’s easier to make the change. That’s a change management tool and change management is something you can keep for the rest of your career. Absolutely everybody should be working on learning right. Learning is a key skill in today’s marketplace, my opinion of course. That’s borne out right. Leadership is a key skill in today’s marketplace, right? And continual learning is the best way to become a leader, but right now you gotta talk through all this philosophies, but we’re just trying to give the listener here a perspective. On only how we’re aligned in our philosophies on a lot of these things, and that part of this process is finding people you trust that share your values so that you have less fear Yup, well that does it for this episode of Job Seekers Radio you can find all the show notes and the resources jobseeker’s radio DOT com forward slash zero eight zero and don’t forget. You can download the free resource anatomy of a networking conversation e-book along with companion audio.

00:30:04 – 00:30:54

Yes, I’ll fill in for his Scott. HEAD OVER TO I. Subscribe to get future episodes of this. We appreciate your time. And if you use I tunes, there’s also a link in the show notes for rate in review. Now appreciate that there’s two parts to that. There’s the rate which is the five star thing and the review is where you actually type something right and send us questions. If if you’ve got something on your mind, and it’s not, we don’t. If you are fearful and you don’t have anybody to reach out to. There is a contact us button on the website now we’re happy to. Please reach out to us if you need any support at all, this is Andrew and I’m Scott and in the words of anonymous. Hey, he’s my favorite philosopher and boy has he been prolific and not of a said do something today that your future self will thank you for. By everybody.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Networking can get a bad wrap. Often reaching out to people you don’t know can feel weird, awkward and uncomfortable. Selling frequently feels synonymous with sleaze. 

Scott and Andrew discuss ways to eliminate the sleaze from your networking efforts.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Sincerity definition and approach.
• Mindset and thought process when approaching networking efforts.
• Managing your identity and confidence.
• Changing your current feeling about networking.
• Upgrading your networking finesse and maturity.
• Preparing for the networking meeting or group event.
• Finding a genuine purpose for networking in the first place.
• Answering the “what do you do question”.
• The power of branding and asking questions.

Resources (including affiliate links)

Brene Brown Ted Talk: The Power of Vulnerability 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:15 – 00:07:17

to provide you meaningful support to find great careers faster whether you’re unemployed brought to you by the anatomy of a networking conversation it’s an ebook a free pretty often the people that come to a Scott they have this approach avoidance people right so you have that in common when we talk about sincerity I found it helpful to look at the roots of the Word Sin Means Without Sarah is the Latin word ending material right for the highest end type of buildings they were doing whether it was a temple us in a little holes and imperfections the unscrupulous marble hi it you would then at at prime price you would then use it and product as being without wax it was real it was sincere right mindset matters how you begin the thought process of as you prepare event you have to be or even networking one on one You have to be perfect before I can actually do some short because my assumption is that when I go to I been unemployed for any length of time that part of my confidence made the you it allows you to manage both well and it for anybody who knows who Rene Brown is comes to being in the workplace whether you’re leader and employees whatever or you are the more sincere the other person will be now obviously there are limits to that respond to you your chances of recognizing it for what it is increases for lack of a better term whatever triggers us is often going to make us questions only if that’s the case and you’re looking for something within that you may have some Oh being sincere about that being mindful of the mindset doing networking for the first time you’re gonNA be uncomfortable that doesn’t mean you’re not confident or sincere but we go and we do it anyway and if networking to you feels forced us right then we we want to encourage you to take a different approach than that we’ve wouldn’t suggest that they had to be if you’re not into small talk go ahead and start gently them on your page right away and that takes a certain amount of finesse it does it it’s going to feel even more uncomfortable but it’s going to be a safe environment and you may feel at feeling awkward and still performing you will definitely be better at it when you’re in people about is how do you prepare what how have you prepared your thoughts before aww networking conversation would apply.

00:07:17 – 00:18:00

I think where we’re at in this is probably have to have a certain set of beliefs about networking I I think before and you’re out of your comfort zone here’s an opportunity for you to get out of your comfort zone and learned something and the points within that so that you’re prepared to talk around what you want to talk about the talk about whoever they may be now you’re listening and people will remember makes it a lot easier for me just to look down and maybe re review them and working but I know it’s important and so I’m going to do it anyway I don’t know how you feel about this well you’re coming into when I say this is new to me or I’m not comfortable portent end so here I am all of a sudden I’m rooting for them because we always root for the Enron your head down and you know looking at your toes or looking right toes of the per- you know winging here we get to that point coming back to the idea of of insecurities else in the room is feeling pretty much the same way we all feel our insecurities doesn’t mean that we don’t get nervous ourselves I it’s my experience that most people in a networking MHM everybody has questions everybody has insecurities are nations if I don’t have ammunition like just a quick introduction a purpose statement and sometimes you’re thinking well I’m going to find a job well maybe but I okay because if if the only reason you’re going to our game vet is to find a job you’re bob from their networking event never right it’s about the same that get hired frequency for anyone to count on it so stop going to a networking event thinking you’re going to get your job you have some control over if you prepare well if you have your questions if you are curious what do you do well here’s what I’m working on I’m working on improving my networking skills this case scenario you’re you say that to someone who has a very small mind question directly and if they come back to it you can then say well I have this experience I had so why do you ask and turned so yeah ask answer the question right ask a question right but the thing is we’re all going to this event and we’re all kind of at Equal Act and our our our fallback responses oh I’m a consultant at it’s over I instead as we are thinking about these these events team that is being human what they get out of it may change and some people will truly be or they like to to see the what is happening in their industry and so like you can’t go to something with an agenda just make sure that your agenda unclear about the equilibrium factor is at are you doing all the because that always initiates the reciprocity just be clear you don’t have to fill the air in your nervous you tend to talk more when I realized that’s what’s happening I go back remade nearly every time and so this idea of authenticity honesty being genuine it allows thank you think of you when they see something that might work well I mean you can you can go to the name-brand Upfront Premier Shelf placement I out there be your own brand be you you be you I’m telling you the more Offense and enthusiastic about what they wanNA talk about because that makes my question’s read right and then also ask for connection to other people which is everything we talk about being a sincere we hope that you’ll give us some feedback you can find show put together you’ll find that there as well thank you for joining us for this episode of Job Seekers Radio and leave a review because here’s the thing the more people that hear this people to be a part of the conversation I’m Scott and I’m Andrew and in the Eddie.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

What we think can have a big impact on our ability to find success in our careers. Whether we listen to those voices or not is entirely up to us.

Scott and Andrew share some tips and techniques to manage those voices positively on this episode of Job Seekers Radio.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Capture and challenge your beliefs.
• How do I determine if my story is true.
• What kinds of questions can support productive and positive progress.
• Redirecting your focus to get results, going from negative to positive.
• Overcoming feelings of inadequacy.
• Getting over the platitudes heard from friends and family.
• The value of self-coaching.
• Re-framing situations and circumstances with networking to find answers.

Resources (including affiliate links)

016 The Ice Breaker – Anatomy of a Networking Conversation
 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

Careers faster whether you’re working or not today’s episode we’re talking about managing the voice in your head in fact this episode is brought to you by the Anatomy Logan to job seekers radio I’m Andrew and I’m Scott this production is meant to provide meaningful support find great what do you think would be a better question to ask what is it that I bring to the marketplace that other people could use that or series of questions that you might think about to open your mind to another possibility to direct your efforts to we’d like to help possibly to re frame the questions as they pop up questions are really powerful tool today is to sort of give some alternatives to these questions their common questions we hear them all the time and the work that we do and thing everyone has we all talk to each other to what degree may differ between people but we are always telling ourselves as story involved in a networking conversation and we have that as a free gift for you in today’s show we WanNa talk about managing the voice in your head that’s right everything emotionally speaking that makes you an exceptional employee and a great person right yeah and suddenly you don’t have answers a positive end for you which could be a promotion or whatever it is you’re seeking right coming back to the common question why am I not getting a job Andrew Day and we’re asking ourselves a lot of questions already if you’ve been in a job or are between jobs you’ve probably asked some of these questions of yourself a lot of times we build the story based on assumptions we make because we don’t know the answers to the questions we ask ourselves so we actually want to address that getting the job be clear on why you should get it whatever that job is now we get into we won’t go into detail on this podcast it’s an endless loop kind of question well especially because the answer could be different for every person you ask a exactly even if they were to tell you the truth that means there’s no answer you know what why am I not getting promoted right why did that person get the role and not me a why did I not get a callback why have I not been if you’re asked about your branding statement or how to market yourself and your abilities but that’s the direction this takes when you have a clear answer to that question working why have I not been included in conversations that affect my team and this can affect your your mindset everything yeah and your confidence one I if you’ve been unemployed for any length of time it’s likely you’ve asked yourself whether or not you’re employable that is another very common question so what we wanted are there is beneficial or that I feel I’m I’m here to do right that that’s a great way to turn it around instead of looking at why you’re aw when the question comes up why not getting hired let’s start by reframing it about what do I bring to the table and be very cautious of verse redirect your mind into something way more productive exactly and we use them in coaching all the time in our objective here today really is to give you a list and that can be frustrating that can be deflating. There’s a lot of reasons why I would not use a why question so here’s another question really any y question because often it could be something that has no answer right that you continually well why don’t have that don’t have this and it just why did I not get that interview when I’m qualified what is the process inside that company to get to interviews a lot of people don’t know that I mean made it systems to accept and and manage the resumes that were coming in and I just sort of laughed that off because this is were fairly new in terms of the technology but it was surprising to me how quickly even small companies I don’t know if from one company to the next or even one requisition to the next right or one recruiter to the next what that process is inside that company to get to it interview now ten years ago if you had told me well actually people had told that companies were were using more and more companies were using Ah jumped onto that bandwagon because it freed up their time well it when you think about that becoming the norm that could be an answer right there while you’re not getting the interview however the one way to twist that is going to be what is bringing me the interviews that I am getting so now you’re looking at objective data rather than the subjective assumptions and you can work with that more easily and that’s tailored to your experience Sir I’m good with that here’s another question how do I know if I’m interviewing well and how do I get better why are they not giving me feedback well a lot of times you’re likely to find an answer okay because your mind is designed to search for it okay we’re looking for patterns right exactly and so the question that I get a lot is how long is this rich I’d be sipping on my tie in Maui talking to you right well we’d be doing it together you go in Maui Oh practices the thing you control exactly it’s in your locus of control how the interview turns out is not in your control right right so for you it would be a different answer but because you asked yourself the answer you’re GonNa find it and that’s the nice thing about this process if you ask yourself the answers or the question go back and practice that interview review it with someone that I trust and who is a good interviewer we all know somebody in our lives who does a fairly recreate it you can take any of these negative focused questions and turn them right around to the positive absolutely why is it well then and I always come back with the same answer there’s nothing wrong with you now what can you do differently and that question is answered had the experience where you felt you knocked that interview out of the park and that was it you get the rejection email a week or two later doing wrong or what’s what am I missing what am I doing wrong what am I missing presumes that something is missing so how would you turn that one around well I generally when that’s because they don’t want to get themselves into any legal trouble right what can I do instead that is a better question what can I do to practice my interviewing skills that are totally outside your control and we beat ourselves up over those unnecessarily and I’m sure both have anybody listening to this I’m sure so I’m GonNa ask you who can you talk to that could help you practice who might be able to do some role playing with you yet whatever you have learned from your experiences so when you think about the things that have worked what in your past have you done that God a position that I’m well qualified for whatever it’s entirely possible that I am projecting something that is and there’s no explanation for it no connection at all it’s not in my control is the answer to that question instead of beating myself up I can always way to recreate that moment if whether it’s what you said how you set it with whom you’re speaking whatever that is is there a way for you to when I get a lot Scott is I’ve been at this now for nine months what’s wrong with me I get that question to give an asked that question the job are you aware of anything that was within your control you feel put you in the best position is there for those who haven’t done that before it is great practice so the next time you have an interview you’re already prepared the other question coming from that place of feeling down or feeling Under qualified inadequate was I was looking for and so now was a nurturing environment albeit they weren’t able to help me get a job because it was family but by changing okay whether you get a call back or a second interview or an offer or they pull that requisition I mean there’s so many different things that can happen at after an interview at these questions that really this is about what’s going on inside your own head I will turn that to what’s going on for you right now because often the job interview so role play with that person okay these are the things that we talked about this is what I said get do a little bit role playing even on it may feel a little odd do right now to feel better about my situation and there’s usually something now when I was unemployed for three year period by the end of that three years that was what we are feeling in the moment we project somehow we’re not always aware of how so if I’m not really feeling good about myself even though I go to an interview and it’s it’s I instead think about what’s going on for me what is it where am I right now in this moment I can then ask the next question what can because we’ve been in those situations and we don’t want to present any of these ideas as platitudes that’s the one thing that was really mindset before the conversations with potential employers I think is what helped me get there and this is probably a good point for us to pause and very difficult question for me to ask but I could still find positive things in the people that that supported me and the environment that I was in that one really acknowledge that everybody is at a different place of their search and they’re all struggling with different things so we’re not we’re not trying to belittle take take for me to find a job or how long is it going to take for me to get promoted or whatever it is in the blink if we could answer that question for everybody it’s probably a bad one right right well actually this would be a positive why right why is it that all these companies paid you to do the work that you did oh I love that as we think about that even one small tweak can totally change your trajectory you think about three hundred sixty right that’s why did why would they do that right I did this job why you so we do the five wise but the other one I get a lot is what am I doing will the process or in some way make you feel lower than you currently are by by going through these kind of conversations point it we’re only doing this the easier it becomes not because shifting is easy but because your ability to do it changes as you practice I heard a similar metaphor in that was boiling water a book call two hundred and twelve degrees that a water goes from being a solid right right to learning going because you will find things are working better or worse okay what shift do I need to make to move in the other direction and as you get more skilled at that Greece around us and that’s you know full degrees we’re not too separating them into point five right the idea is you change your repeat that we know we shouldn’t so true and and in that we expect a different result that that is the definition of insanity right doing the same thing and expecting something different action by one degree in the short term that’s really not very far after a while you’re further and further away from where you had been headed take that one I and the power of questions so when you think about your own moment where you’re struggling where you’re wondering what the Heck is wrong with me or why am I not you just aren’t skilled at that yet or who are in an emotional place where they just can’t ask themselves that question that’s when you reach out to somebody who can strating for me when I was unemployed for a long period was when people are trying to reassure me and they say oh your your next job is just around the corner how many corners three shift and take it as far as you can and if that’s not working then you shifted another degree and you keep that that not employable that is the moment where you have to ask yourself a better coaching question and coach yourself and for those who rest give yourself permission to take a break often we are hardest on ourselves and I know people might be thinking with that statement Lagasse right the liquid to gas at two hundred twelve degrees so it’s interesting how one degree can make such a transformational chain gray so so the one that you may come up with a what what adjustments can I make to move my search forward yeah and in my current situation sure because sometimes really take the easy way out of any given situation or the path of least resistance to get something done that’s usually a learned behavior everyone starts play in your search get out of the house take a ball where can I go to gain better perspective on my situation right and most people have a place that they like to go the job or whatever they’re they’re doing maybe a break from work that they get to choose medical they start out with the best of intentions remember that HR is generally there within the company one to protect it from its we keep doing the same things and we’re not getting the results you gotta change something yeah otherwise we are insane by definition there’s certain things environment right and looking at something different you know I think the other thing that I hear a lot is I put in all these applications why yeah I mean I think the good point that you had there that I took away from that Scott is this idea of self coaching is that you can take any one of these questions we’re talking about and craft your own yeah right so you’re asking yourself another question a well but but the idea is we are both coaches we understood in a job search and sometimes it just takes a break so that you can get the rest you need the emotional rest and then you can get all of your energies back at is about the processes they need to have everyone go through to provide a good workplace so that’s not taking anything away from really inspiring HR people the too much detail about the history of why were called human resources and and all that and right now the trend is to change it’s just we have laws regulations processes compliance whatever it looks like within our industries we have things that we have to comply remember that they probably don’t have the bandwidth to really reach out the way we’d like them to and we’re all in that same boat at some point in our careers yeah but that person that I know he’s lazy well let’s not think about that because lazy people are really in the minority they truly are if you’ve known people recruiter whether that’s through an automated system or otherwise that can differentiate me from the rest of the applicants or what is also there to process the information the companies about the people working there it’s not as much about the people itself as implies and potential employees meaning avoiding legal liabilities right it’s getting any results or why why is it that companies are not treating me as a candidate like a human being even though they’re called human resource right I won’t get it not reading a book or doing a listening to a podcast like she has one or whatever and I also we’ve talked about it in the past but the idea that’s what stops them is a whole bunch of other conversations that happen so what we’re trying to do here is to stop ourselves from having those negative conversations that keep us down acme what’s what’s wrong with me and going down that road instead asking what could I bring to that HR person that and wherever you can find it right yeah we can help with that or just listened to oliver are episodes over to listen to US yeah well see south of break it if you’re like me and you just don’t stop you have your goal and you keep pressing and you keep pressing and you keep pressing in you eventually get tired it’s so think about that you know what can you do what is the what is the one thing you could do today to put you one step closer to where you want to be is that we can actually avail ourselves off if we take the time and effort to find them then there’s the dreaded yes no questions which I think are they don’t service very well knew what he was thinking right no I I it’s too late I doubt I have doubt so all that does fuel my internal doubt about myself yeah with and so that’s often what takes up most of the time of hr so as you’re feeling like you’re being dehumanized as we’re looking at this remember that they do have processes that you’re 

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Finding the right employment opportunities can take some effort. Knowing whether or not a company you want to work for is hiring is a two part problem. The first being: knowing which companies are out there.

Scott and Andrew share some creative ways to locate the companies in your neck of the woods.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Practical Ways to Find Companies
• Who can give you information about opportunities
• Online resources for narrowing your options
• Organizations that can support you in your job search and have connections to local companies.

Resources (including affiliate links)

Reference USA [Local Library]
Business Journals [USA] 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View TranscriptTo Follow
Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

You are preparing for an interview and expecting the questions you will be asked.  What about the questions you GET to ask? 

Andrew and Scott talk through some ideas about crafting good questions to ask hiring teams during your interviews to demonstrate your interest. 

Don’t miss these Questions and some Answers:

• What are the best questions to ask?
• How do you know they are telling the truth?
• What do you REALLY want from the job/organization?
• How would you rate your company on saying what they are going to do and then doing it? 
• What does work life balance look like to me?
• Is the question I’m asking about me? Hopefully not!
• How do you allocate weekend work?
• Is weekend work required here?
• What accommodations do you have for flexible scheduling as relates to equity/inclusion?
• Tell me about a time when somebody needed accommodation around their work schedule, how did you handle that?
• Talk to me about what diversity and inclusion looks like?
• Tell me about a time when you had a challenge around the value of speaking with candor, how did you work through that?
• How do respond to this negative feedback from Glassdoor.com?
• What are your corporate values that are used on a daily basis in your teams?
• How can I use networking to get answers to some of my questions?
• Why is this position open? Why did that person leave? What are you expecting the person you hire to do differently?
• What does the ideal candidate look like?
• How do people get promoted and developed inside the company?
• Tell me more about your career path in the company?
• Do your leaders go through 360 reviews and how is feedback implemented or not within the organization?
• How much time each week do you make available for employee development and training?
• How do you decide what investments to make in employee development? 

Resources (including affiliate links)

ATD BEST Award Winners (press release) 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

059 The Best Questions To Ask At An Interview

00:00:10 – 00:10:28

Production is meant to provide you the listener meaningful support to find great careers faster that’s whether you’re working or not today on job seekers welcome to job seekers radio I’m Scott I’m Andrew is to provide so that you can start asking informed questions about how do they fit that bill for you because if the company can prepare for these it’s important to know what kind of information they’re looking for generally speaking that is unknown idea and we recommend that you do I first of all know what you want what are the things that you value as an employee if you’re interviewing or their supervisors have a list of things that are valuable to you that is dependent upon the the workplace about your experience what you bring to the table this point often their behavioral questions tell me about a time when and those are good asking those questions is GonNa differentiate you in in that hiring process as well as how you ask those questions precisely that’s what we’re going to focus on today they are going to ask you this conversation is about the questions that you should be preparing for them take some time do your homework because Wanna ask questions that get to the real the real life workday working in that company and so there are some things that that because often we have here people say general things like I appreciate work life balance or I want good leadership but we don’t know what questions to ask Oh right so now you have a question to ask your interviewer so for some how would you rate your company on whether or not there airing their own grievances it just doesn’t make any sense so no that they’re going to be you know talking very in glowing terms of the company that they’re working for you US and really I appreciate Scott whenever you do the five wise which is a very good exercise for this so I do this a lot with into interview for a position of leadership know what you’ve value in terms of company culture and how the employees relate to the any isn’t going to be aligned with your values if their values don’t align with yours you’re not gonna be happy there in the long run this is where it’s really important to document l. always put the positive spin no matter what you’re asking why because that’s their job is natural for them to do that sure and nobody’s going to get the top candidate if people say what they’re going to do and listen to the feedback that they get and see what see what they say right and when you ask the question don’t answer it for them just ask right to actually find out what is how do I know exactly because you have to assume that whoever you’re talking to is going to be putting their best foot forward that the number of hours in the standard workweek and the idea isn’t because they’re trying to find work life balance they recognize that Work Mike Coaching clients where they say you know I’m really want a a company that has great leadership okay well what what is it about the what is it about Schneider ship and why where they regulate employment practices where for example France recently just reduced the the I was just reading an article this week that that makes the point that is a very American idea in other countries especially in Europe yeah why do you want that why do it so when it gets down to a base term it’s like you know what I just like people to listen to me and do what they say they’re gonNA do will there we go a part of life they don’t separate the two so what is there to balance what they’re doing is saying you can’t take unfair advantage of your employees because they have to live the work life balance that means yeah that means different things to different people I I’m here to tell you it is a buzzword that we hear a lot now because there are resources out there to find what do these questions mean maybe we can do that in a later podcast but you can prepare for the and work necessary here or do you offer flexible schedules in terms of when you’re talking about the issues of diversity and inclusion because that’s breath we don’t do that in the United States I’m not saying it’s good better indifferent I’m not I’m not making a judgment call here is just that we have to be realistic about what it is that we’re talking about great they prepare for those that salele there probably isn’t any new interview questions out there well there are a few but there there most of them are focusing on the same thing so yes for you to ask that same question tell me about a time when somebody needed some accommodation around their work schedule how did you handle that often what ends up happening what kind of accommodations do you generally give versus those that are requested these are all things that there’s sound like I’m trying to game the system or I’m trying to to to find out only what’s in it for me because they’re looking at it what’s in it for the company or for Joel when you see if you value collaboration in these kinds of things you’re not the process driven person you’re the people driven person interviewer I was trained a long time ago on on those behavioral questions right so tell me about a time when it is totally okay and the fact that what the way we defined it may not be the same as the company you’re talking to that’s why it’s so important to document and identify what does that mean for you for be quiet for a second take silences your friend note but listen to what’s happening between the lines you mentioned Andrew or a people driven environment so here’s one question or one response that you can use to determine whether or not this would be a good fit for you and that that style preference there answer is going to tell you whether or not they are working in a process driven environment every other Saturday I hate it so if I can have both all my weekends off that’s great yeah but I’m not gonNA come in and say hey can I get my weekends off because that the process there’s a policy there they know they should know what those are so you can talk to them about what their policies are without making it some people that might be you know what I’d really like to have six months six months paternity leave after my child comes in November other people might be hey you know what the job on coming from I have to work how does the company work overall with a negative feedback on glassdoor dot com what are the values and how do I align all of a sudden you’re focused on the wrong thing focused on myself right fry even though we can turn that around and say maybe the question is how do you allocate weekend work or is it they are pushing growth pushing growth pushing pushing growth oh well they say they value people I yeah but in practice now you can get a better idea of what’s Agam seriously they don’t think they’re silly boy there are a lot of of rabbit holes in that field yeah I think about those who say oh yeah so how do they actually work with their employee engagement or internal satisfaction well many companies and I seen it firsthand this just comes from experience maybe you had some bad experiences in the past and you know what questions to ask that would identify whether or not that’s going to be a repeat what diversity inclusion looks like or talk to me about a time when you had a challenge with this value of speaking with candor and how you handled that values that won’t mean anything less what my values are that we can develop those questions and the other one that comes up a lot is I want a company that is hand where the company will do all their surveying through their HR software will the HR software is tied to your profile.

00:10:28 – 00:11:39

Yeah so it’s not true that often people will be using their work computer to provide this this kind of feedback because it’s an internal survey truly anonymous you do not have access to the information of who supplied the feedback then you’ve got a better idea that you’re getting true group themselves or their team there’s a dynamic that goes on there that’s for sure the idea is to take a look at any one of these components that are important to you we’re our people come first before financial growth in practice and this is where the networking really comes into play because that’s where you Moto Yup that’s where you find out driven survey function it is not anonymous and people are not giving unfettered feedback not doing it because they are not safe to do that’s a totally valid question and you’ll get an answer that that speaks to more than just this is our policy it’s well this is how we problem solved with that and the IP address is going to be basically associated with your company be aware that they will absolutely advertise their high scores.

00:08:20 – 00:16:51

I’m leaving and those questions will also provide an idea that you are thinking in positive terms not being negative Nellie right right that you’re you’re the anonymous I’m here to tell you that if if you’re talking to a company that uses an HR driven or an employee record you’re walking in with the positive attitude I think about those behavioral questions that where you’re validating what they say they value talk to me about Oh and see if you can reverse engineer a question yeah and that’s not a very straightforward simple process unless you’re really good at jeopardy but at the same time as waist that I appreciate and then I like and more of that I want more of that but I didn’t recognize that when I was at the job I was only recognized on the crap I didn’t like yeah yeah if you feel so strongly that you have to convince me that I can trust you the chances are pretty good I can’t trust you if you are truly involved so if they’re using and I’ll just use this as an example it is in no way an endorsement of the company but if you’re using a service like survey monkey which is oft in trust-worthy activity that reputation will precede you be very careful about the buzzwords that they give you oh honest feedback it goes to third-party sites correct there’s no names involve might be an IP address but they you know who’s going to seek out an IP address not only that the people I company or invest in their people who are or has high employee engagement all the silly buzzwords yet we there you in an interview and ask questions that get deeper a question just came to mind as you were speaking and that’s something that probably should be identified early on maybe even appropriate to ask did the person leave because there was a misalignment of either values or performance expectations and that assault perspective is the harder they lean on those scores the less likely it is to be accurate because if you tell me your funny you’re probably way you’re kind of putting them on the spot you’re likely to get an idea of whether or not this is a good during a screening interview if you have one is understand why does position is open excellent sometimes we try to answer that one for the interviewer as well but notable potentially right promotional position and I am looking for growth opportunities that’s a plus okay the person left bright the experience but you could also look at all the good experiences you have often that’s overlooked by a potential candidate right is that hey here’s a city okay so I would personally now mentioned earlier that I’m not always terribly assertive but this would be an opportunity for me to say if it isn’t in just like to say hey what causes this position to be open and that’s it I don’t say anything else because if I start saying Oh are you back filling this or are you doing that hey there are opportunities for advancement and you’ll need to dig a little deeper in terms of how people actually get promoted because I I know of several only bad about pushing for growth nothing nothing bad about that at all but you have to know whether or not you’re gonNA fit well where do they draw the line exactly that and everything else Persson engagement and employee satisfaction but you don’t know how accurate that is until you talk to the people on the inside and I would say my own having to play a game you don’t want to play and most importantly don’t feel you should as soon as you start shooting yourself or because right validating what matters is whether or not that’s the environment you WanNa play in and the trouble starts when you suddenly discover that in order to advance your funny it is funny that you say that but not in a humorous yeah it is peculiar if you have to tell me that you are trustworthy find out how do people get an get promoted within this company that’s going to shine a big light on something that can help you in your interview and align with their values which tells you that they’re getting promoted because they’re playing the political game well there’s nothing wrong with playing political games well information about what it’s like to to fill the position you’re applying for I will say if we’re talking about growth opportunities most companies will but he’s actually two that I’ve worked for personally where the people who were promoted they had done some good things they’d had certain results that was great sometimes leadership position and I had done my research on everyone who is going to be in the room to the point where and we had a lot in common you say okay that’s going to answer a lot of questions in my mind right Oh well we’ve the person was promoted okay will that gives me an indication that this is for thirteen years thirteen years same position yeah well what are the odds that I’m going to get promoted while that’s true if you’re looking to get promoted Dr for this individual on that you’ve made a good connection you can ask so why did the person leave or maybe given the experience with the the prior person this position let’s position that or even above that position right you remind me of kind of a funny story something that I ran into myself when I was interviewing several years ago for development really happening now if you happen to be really adept in those environments where they’re pushing growth and you can help them it’s perfect for you that’s right so there’s nothing beyond there’s nothing that says you can’t even bring a printout of that person’s linked in profile and maybe just ask them hey could you just give me an idea and usually top leadership is the least accountable in most will at least with large companies that may that may or may not be true with a mid sized company is it don’t don’t give them any any don’t give them any answer just again silence is your friend in that situation great point because once I have that and what would you be looking for a new person to do differently to what is the ideal candidate look sure to you that there are ways to get that kind of rector level that those higher generally can provide reasons why things don’t go well there’s an assumption that if you’re already for example vp that you know what you’re doing uh-huh and full disclosure.

00:16:51 – 00:21:21

I came in second for that job what ended up happening in the interview was I knew enough about everyone in the room with one exception that Russians the hardest question that I think you could ask is about accountability within the company because I will tell you most companies will say they hold everyone accountable and all bets are off with really small companies and startups because they have their their existence to manage but with large companies it’s been individuals really worked hard to bend their skills I can’t tell you how many companies internally complain about people getting promoted who don’t display the behaviors L. A. Culture is created in reality verses the culture they say they they build the other values remember the value position to work in Use Caution with that I’m not recommending that would be an any any conversation but if you feel like you have a good sense of trust they hire vp’s and vp roles right and if you’re not promoting into that VP role you’re coming in from the outside that accountability piece is really as a mission statement and vision statements are aspirational they’re not necessarily real life how they bring that to life is the culture that’s not why they didn’t hire me that the other person that that came in I actually had some experience that I didn’t have that they felt was an advantage good so I observe that it may not be across the board but in certain or many divisions that accountability really stops probably the it it’s not the way I want to go because right it’s that’s where things get a bit slippery yes so if you do the networking in advance to work life balance and positive workplace cultures and employee engagement and internal satisfaction and the more we talk about these worked out it worked out well it also worked out because he year and a half later they went under so the idea here those regards did they create so our senior leaders truly accountable for the creation of the culture they say now if they say outright we today I would just say be careful if you do that no it and know how to bring stuff up from your background so that you can can start to make those lead difficult to pinpoint so that’s going to be one of the why is it why is it important to you when it comes to accountability we’re really talking about culture how this is the situation try not to make bold statements but do make good questions yeah and the questions are what is going to save you any of these situation rituals being happy how do you measure that well if it’s hard to measure it’s hard to measure accountability and leaders once they get into the higher position lacking maybe that revolves around three sixty right if you have a three an anonymous three system that’s asking people how would you rate think they felt that I’ve been stocking and it’s like over like how did you know all this and of course I told them well I looked linked to and it was it was an easy emotional intelligence as a leader if they’re actually promoting that and living it you’re probably going to have a better idea of that accountability connections if you’re if you’ve done exhaustive research don’t don’t be the Stalker beautiful just we’ve had a good laugh about it and it didn’t preclude my because I’m almost intangible things and say almost because sometimes it can be tangible when we’re talking about these broad concepts about some indy are a money driven company we’re GonNa make money for our customers whatever that looks like in whatever form that takes they make clear chances are pretty good that the accountability of what your career path with the company is and you know how did you get to this position bride you just fill me in store and then you’ll hear all I’ve been in the same position part is really easy because you just follow the numbers yeah today’s World Employment World certainly within the United States we see more and more companies talking about whether they write them or that they forward them on Lincoln about mindfulness or being connected leader or someone you know having talk about three sixties that don’t actually do them and there are those from firsthand experience by the way that do them do but don’t do anything with that which is even worse do your leaders go through three sixty reviews and through what what is the process through which you you accomplish that and they’ve arrived train my people I don’t need it I don’t need training I’ve already arrived train my people that is an indication that accountability is probably at senior leaders in a company care about look at the assuming they don’t have a staff member doing this for them look at the the articles they post aren’t they provide skill soft or Lincoln learning right and they think that’s enough correct right but then they don’t give their people a structured time to actually for talented and development ad dot Org I believe is the we’ll put that in the show notes to to make sure that it’s and learn I spoke to a large bank based here in the Pacific northwest it is a large bank one of the the regional ones and and I asked her about how they approach employees learning and development and especially when it comes our those action items implemented tell tell me about your most recent implementation of three sixty route how did you ask questions did you did you do it in you could ask around that would be if you are the type that wants to work in a learning environment know what that definition is and you can go to the Association Act but it’s a TD is the acronym for the Association for Talent Development there is a definition of what a learning environment is and every year mislead through a third party.

00:21:21 – 00:23:29

What did that look like what did you do with the information you gathered here’s a whole series of questions about the count ability and there are a lot of companies that tree that for their learning expertise now that’s not a guarantee that every company on that list actually does it well but at least they’re making an attempt to provide learning two courses that build their skills but aren’t necessarily associated to their primary job and she said Oh we require that they do that on their own time they do they send out surveys and rank companies on being the top learning environments the top one hundred and twenty five companies

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Scott and Andrew take time to answer your questions. Select the Contact button in the menu on the JSR website to ASK your question – and we will answer it on a future episode. 

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Is it bad to apply to multiple roles within the same company? Applying for the same company?
• How to get my foot in the door at a hospital?
• Lately I have been sending my CV and obtaining no feedback at all. What would you do?
• How important is a cover letter?

Resources (including affiliate links)

What Color is Your ParachuteGetting Interviews Meeting 40-50% of the Qualifications 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:05 – 05:32

welcome to job seekers radio. I’m Scott. I’m Andrew this. This is a production that is meant to provide you the listener meaningful support to find great careers faster whether you’re working or not today. We’re we’re going to be answering some questions. This is one of our QNA podcasts where we are asked questions and we sprint respond to them and really we. We want you to hear your own voice in this one. We want to make sure that we are answering questions that are relevant valid and that you are asking us so at the end of this. We’re going to ask you to get in touch with US and ask us more questions but here’s some questions that we’ve come across in the last several weeks and we we really feel compelled to answer them and we encourage you reach out to us on the web site or send an email whatever that looks like leave a comment if you have our phone number gives call give us a call. We’re in the book well. Did they move to. I’m surprised I even published a medical except for the advertising anyway we have some questions that we want to answer and we want to invite you to more so here. We go the first question and for this. QNA is is it bad to apply to multiple roles within the same company. The quick answer is no. It’s not bad. The question goes on though Oh to say a to ask about applying for the same company. this person specifically has a degree in pharmacy and about to achieve has licensure but doesn’t know if it’s really appropriate to continue to go back to the same company with applications. I personally you say I think it’s a great idea to go back over and over again to accompany. You’re really interested in working with there is one. I Dunno caveat. What is the right word but there’s one caveat and that is you’ve got to know why you want to work there. If it’s just because you here they pay well. That is not going to be a compelling reason for the person interviewing you. I just needed jobs in our yeah and they want somebody who really believes in the company he walking in the door so if you have done all your homework you’ve you’ve researched what this company not only says they’re about but actually what a day in the life. Ed looks like and you can speak their language. That’s going to get you further so the idea is make sure that you have your ducks lined up. You’ve done your networking thing you know your your stuff about that company and then tell them why you want to work for them. If you can lead with that you’re probably going to get a little further down the road. The beginning of this says hey is it bad to apply multiple roles within the same company. Yeah that leads me to believe that that’s that’s the only activity that they’re judging their success or failure on and I would not leave it there. I would say do the networking get inside the company us all the avenues available to you. If that’s absolutely the only place you’d like to work sure we were talking about rich prior to this our friend enrich who who works for an athletic company who who worked so hard on getting in that was the only company you wanted to work for and he applied for for many roles within the organization and he spoke to almost one hundred people hundred before he got his first interview. If I remember correctly they had a hiring hiring freeze yeah. I’m so quotes. He did informational interviewing a hundred times before he got the his first interview when they kind lose focus yeah focused and that that says a lot about your motivation and your ability to get in there and really do something good for them. The other caveat that I think wasn’t mentioned is I believe the answer to. This is company specific. Every company has different policy. I know for example many of the people that I’ve helped get into Amazon or aws if you go through a an interview cycle with them and you’re are not extended an offer. You can’t apply again for another six or nine months. Oh well and so that. I would say that’s company specific. Just make sure you know the company in this is also another reason why we advocate that you do the networking because there is no application there is no interview until tell you have a relationship built yeah and they near at an advantage in the odds go up and I can’t speak for Amazon or any other company that has such a policy but that I will say that most policies can be fluid if the need is there even if they have a policy I would not stop networking if you have identified one company that you truly want to work for make yourself visible and don’t be a stalker or a past but but make sure that they keep seeing you and the best way to do that is in networking whether that’s at an industry association function or or anything else that where they aren’t going to perceive you as as stalking them but rather that you are involved in the industry or in the discipline and they keep seeing you.

05:33 – 10:54

It’s just like going to the gym every morning. People Trust you after they’ve seen you many times not just because you show up in and have a great conversation with him. It could even be a company sponsored event it can be. I see those all the time. Here’s the next question. How do I get my foot in the door at hospital will. I hope that’s not fee for right. It’s not as a patient but stranger things have it. There’s more than one way to get a job. so in this case it sounds like there is a lot of confusion about what this person was seeking king who they are and a lot of times this comes from a position of desperation and what they said is they’re running out of options and they have a lot of debt and third position where. Hey I don’t WanNa do this even though I’ve been educated in looks like EKG technology but they don’t know what to do and another point. Daddy makes he or she on sleep. I don’t know the idea that I have a bachelor screen sociology well. I actually have a good friend who that’s how she started needed in hospital was as a counselor and then worked her way into a different positional together but the idea that US your background to your to your advantage bandage if you really want to get into a specific kind of company and you have an opportunity to do it if they know that your interest is is in this area and you are willing to do it it takes to get there including taking in this case and Ekg tech position. What’s wrong with that. You’re getting in the door. You’re getting into the company and if you take the attitude that I’m I don’t care if I get into the mail room as long as I get in that speaks well of you or the female room funny retort to that yeah so the other thing I’m hearing here is sometimes we look at our situation situation as permanent and I would look at any situation like this as permanent. Not a fact that you have debt is a circumstance that can be resolved. Yeah it may it. It may take longer depending on the roll right. Get a second job whatever it takes if you have the objective to get rid of that dead right you’ll find a way to do well but but coming wing into a lower position if they see that you have the skills and the positive attitude they will continue to leverage your skills really in that situation personally personally. I think it’s all about the attitude that you bring because that’s something I can’t train you one. I can help maintain a positive attitude as a leader but I can’t train rain you on having a good attitude. That’s what you bring to the table. That’s your contribution absolute and every employer is going to recognize people and if they don’t that’s an opportunity for you to look somewhere else. Sir and we always encourage you to keep the networking active whether you’re working whether you’re not just just always keep your head on his swivel always looking for something better yeah and and even with that. I know there are some. HR people that don’t really appreciate that when they’re interviewing and and if they see you jumping around they’ll they’ll ask questions and and and rightly so looking around at other opportunities isn’t necessarily an indication that you’re constantly looking to jump ship. It may work just as well to validate that you made the right I choice so don’t stop looking around at what’s happening in the industry. The other advantage of looking around is that that’s also a way to help Stay on the cutting edge of whatever your technological needs are. It’s validating not only for your skills but also your compensation. There’s only one way too known that’s to shop around talk to other. People network networks like crazy. Yes absolutely another question. this person asks asks what we would do lately he or she has been sending their CV and obtaining no feedback okay. We’ve basically really given this questions some airtime but we want to bring it up again because it. I think it’s really important especially those who have had a job search for sometime sometime. Not Hearing back from a company is not a reflection on you and your resume it is mostly a reflection on and how they work their open positions and so many times now even small companies are starting adding to use the automated system because they’re getting too many applicants and it takes too much of their individual time so they’re using systems uh-huh applicant tracking systems to help them manage managed the process yeah and so it may be that they have certain certain key words that you didn’t use in your resume or CV and and you just didn’t come up on the list that is not a reflection of you now with that that sad the advice that we always give is when you make an application send them a copy of your cv or resume using their key words because that’s going to help you show up in the applicant tracking system.

10:55 – 15:41

Don’t be too afraid that you don’t have one hundred percent of of their qualifications and and we talked about this you gave the steady yeah it was about fifty percent so and it’s actually less for women and which I found interesting they were tracking that statistic that it was somewhere in the neighborhood forty percent so in other words those who who have forty to fifty eighty percent of the qualifications are just as likely to get an interview as somebody who has eighty to ninety percent correct. Yeah always remember that the job description you’ve seen a job. Posting thing is a wishlist obviously the more qualified you are the more confident you can be but don’t rest on that to be your in remember remember that it’s probably going to be the networking that gets your name in front of the hiring manager or recruiter and then they reach out to give the interview you now if you’re lucky to be in that top five group great don’t beat yourself up because you didn’t hear back do continue to try network within the company if you’re truly interested working there and this typically is a question that we get when people are only doing me applications. The only feedback they get is nothing and that is feedback by the way. Why did that method just work. It isn’t very effective the challenges this is what the company advocates. This is what the company is saying. Don’t contact us. I put your stuff online and so as a good applicant I wanNA follow the rules. Put my stuff online and then they’re gonNA GONNA contact me. It almost like you know I really love Amazon and what they have put together in terms of hey I can get something in an hour. I can watch something on demand or I can get an audio. It’s like this service is excellent. I can put something in my shopping carts delivered two days later her okay. This is not Amazon. We’re not placing an order. No they’re not putting your application or you’re not putting your application in the shopping cart against that role and checking out with your credit card right and but we’re conditioned that yes no. I think that’s really good insight and that’s only going to get stronger in terms of the feeling of disappointment because the more we get that instant gratification the harder. It’s going to be to accept that. We don’t get instant gratification location after we submit a resume or even complete a phone screen that phone screen is really not designed to you find the best candidate directly what it’s doing is weeding out those who are not the best candidate so by a process of elimination when they find the best candidates and I know I can hear the voice of one of my recruiter fans. That would be telling me. That’s not really fair. Well functionally. That’s the way it works the truth the trump. I understand that that’s not their intention as they go through it. That is the function of the process for applicants. Don’t take take it personally find new ways to get on the inside of that employer conversation you know and then a lot of people say well. How do I do that. You know when all they’re asking me for. They’re putting up a brick wall and all these things. How do I get on the inside. It seems so difficult sure sure that’s why we came up with a free resource. If indeed we did it’s called the Anatomy of networking conversation right this will help you you get a round flanking strategy so to speak right on the ATS application process you just you need to understand that it’s going to take time. We will always recommend that you do your homework and finding out what the companies are that really float your boat in other words parts. which ones do I want to associate my name to and when you know what company you want to work for then it provides you a focus in that at networking so that you are not only talking to people trying to talk to people within the company but talk to people that talk to those in that company find out what they’re I like to work with or to work four? If you’re you’re talking to their vendors if you’re talking to people that they consult with what what is it like to be their customer so that you’re getting a bigger picture and then when you have that conversation with somebody on the inside your already speaking their language whether or not they recognize it you will resonate in their head but that takes time and effort not to mention that you actually feel better at the end of that.

15:41 – 20:00

Congress sure do when I’m sending in a resume application through an applicant tracking system. I’m not having a relationship right. I’m I’m doing data entry right. which I guess is a skill you could put that on your resume now that you have data entry skills maybe even your Lincoln profile and if you go with some companies I I almost named one that I think that they will take issue with if I were to criticize them on the air but there’s one in particular that the largest applicant tracking system out there and both HR and applicants complain about them because they’re not user friendly and it it it can be really frustrated worked with them but you will feel better after networking conversation than you will after sending out a an application online online and I will? I want to say if you’re like me where at least I’ve done something and now I feel better. If that’s your approach to to your job search that’s okay but remember that what you put in it is what you get out of. It and you’re GonNa get what the market gives you right right not so you’re pursuing something by way. That may not be what you want and so you just maybe nobody else wanted it and you ended up with it and and it turns out that’s not the right job for you exactly exactly no and so the second part of the question here was you know and some of this is true as we start to lose our confidence and we started to think something’s wrong with us or we start to seek. Answers are are not rational like Oh. We have nothing else to great. Make up our own stores. It’s it’s like okay we’ll do they keep a database on me and her. They talked to somebody who didn’t academia. Did they do research on me and find out. I’m AH closet Republican or let’s not go there no but your your point is well taken when you don’t hear back and that’s the only thing you’re doing then. The chances are pretty good. You’re going to be making up stories and usually many of us. Go to that area of Oh. I must not be good enough. Well if all you’re doing is an online online application. It probably has nothing to do with you now. This individual also asked the question. How important is it cover letter again. That’s company specific. We have no way of snowing and I have worked for different companies who treat cover letters differently in one company. We were told to read all cover letters in another company. It was optional and rarely only were they ever opened up. They always looked at the resume. I and I tell people assume that they’re going to look at your resume to see if you have the qualifications before. They’re going to bother thirty to read a cover letter but with that said if the company gives you an opportunity to write a cover letter use is it the only time you don’t want to use a cover letter is if they don’t give you the opportunity right so don’t force it right. Don’t don’t force a cover letter on the friend into your resume. Oh absolute irritating and it has it’ll mess up the applicant tracking system but we’re not relying on that anyway so my suggestion would be is that it’s better to have one than to not primarily because it’s much like a handwritten. Thank you note after an interview. I’m not writing it for the people who don’t appreciate it. I am writing it for the one who do there are a number of coaches talked to over the years that a few of them have given even me some advice that I really like and it seems to work well if they read the cover letter in the first one is to start with a question and about can you imagine this and then you go on to describe something a gap per for example that they may be experiencing that you can fulfill by asking them if they can imagine this what they’re what you’re doing is asking them to picture you in in that position. It is really effective then go on with a very brief idea of what you can bring to them if they talk to you. They’ll get more detail right so it’s just like a advertisement of sorts given the teaser picture or this situation.

20:01 – 25:00

I can help you with that. Here’s my resume which is a snapshot of my my history but let’s talk about my future with you you or your future with me. However you want to position that that’s going to be if they if they’re going to read it at all. Here’s something that makes them think Oh. Oh maybe I should talk to this guy if you match what they’re looking for. I’m of the Philosophy Scott that I am my best cover letter. If there’s any there’s any chance that I could be my own cover letter yeah whether through networking or a referral or some way that I can get in front of the right person to present. WAS THAT MY application. I’m GonNa do that right and a three dimensional me is much better than a two dimensional because when you think about the amount of of information mation communicated in a in a letter that’s three percent of what you have to offer three percent half of what you more than half of what we communicate indicate is in our body language. The rest of it is in tone of voice. You can attempt to create a tone of voice in written word. You can’t control how they here it. You can only control what you put out there right. If you can get in front of somebody that’s going to be your best cover letter now. What if you’re the type that that you’re not as assertive and you’re socially awkward. Okay totally understand that most people think I’m very outgoing and socially socially adapt and I’m not K. I. Honesty. I appreciate you. I am an ambivert. I go both ways when it comes to extroversion extroversion versus introversion and I am not as socially adept as I would like to be. I can’t let that stop me because I’ve got to make progress in my life and that’s the advice I would give other people like me especially introverts and those who have trouble asserting themselves the more you get into networking the easier. It becomes but you have to push yourself for awhile. I always appreciate that networking is hard. It’s hard for me. Even even though I come from sales I still appreciate the opportunity to sit down with a book or just have quiet alone. I appreciate all those thanks to what I found is. If I’m out networking for something I believe in or that excited about or a company I’d love to work for the networking is a whole lot easier because I have I have passion and authenticity behind me exactly and it reads through it reads through when you have a conversation with somebody and then you’re willing to do the things that you really don’t WanNa do because you know you have to do them. The thing is everybody else feels exactly the same way right and the common denominator of success is doing what other people are unwilling to do right. There’s another the thing your your comment on Tissot that that came to mind that I don’t think we talked about in networking conversation that is if you’re focused on getting a job with a certain company and you’re telling that company when you’re networking and you talk to people within the company of all the reasons why you want to work for them. make sure that you’re saying the same thing to everybody else that you’re talking to that. You really want to work for this company. especially if you’re talking to somebody who is well connected. Eh within the industry or the the community and they think that you’re only telling them that and it’s not authentic. You’ll shoot yourself in the foot really fast but if you really like like our friend rich you really WANNA work for this company. He you’ve done your research. You’ve done your information interviews and this is the company anyone work for. Make sure that you’re telling everyone that because eventually those people will tell other people who will tell other people that rich is the the one who wants to work there. Trust me that makes a difference well. Thank you so much for joining us for this episode of Job Seekers Radio. There’s a link down in the show notes on the mobile device for you to get the full transcript and all the free resources that we mentioned in this session just go to job seekers radio radio DOT COM forward slash zero five eight and that’s where you’ll find the anatomy of networking conversation e book that we put together before him Yep. Just plop your email in there and we’ll send it off to you now. Your investment of time and attention is greatly appreciated. If you could just take a couple of seconds on your phone to go over to itunes and subscribe to get future episodes feud provide us to rate and review. I want to hear from you. We appreciate the feedback. We want to make this a better and better product for you. The listener and we also WanNa thank those who continually listen to us. You’ve subscribed and you’ve provided as feedback. We do care we listen.

25:01 – 25:20

We WanNa make sure that your voices are heard whether it’s an QNA or any other podcast. We WanNa make sure that you hear your own questions. It’s coming up well. I’m Andrew and I’m Scott until next time. Don’t forget the common denominator. Success is doing things that other people are unwilling to do.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Getting your new job is quite an accomplishment. Many of the sacrifices you made and the efforts you took included networking. Now that you are working – what’s next? 

Scott and Andrew share some ideas around keeping your network alive.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Overcoming regret of not having networked – The #1 Thing Many Job Seekers Feel
• Engage with industry associations
• Consider the value of 30-60-90 plans
• Adjust your mindset for networking
• Make small investments of time to get results
• Dedicate some time to planning your efforts
• Paying it forward now that you are working
• Setting and following up with key relationships

Resources (including affiliate links)

7 Habits of Highly Effective People
9 Things you should never do on LinkedIn
Boomerang Gmail Plugin
Hubspot
Onenote
Evernote 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00 – 05:06

welcome to job seekers radio. I’m andrew this production. Action is meant to provide meaningful support to find great careers faster whether you’re working or not today on job seekers radio were talking about how to keep your network alive live and incubate relationships over time. I love the word incubation because as we’re thinking about this it is a long term process. You’re we’re not going to build the same kind of relationship in one conversation the same kind as you would build over several conversations over a period of time trust. I is built by being earned. If you approach a networking relationship as something that is going to be incubated when is that going to take and hopefully you have an idea of what that takes both scott ni- have been in several transitions in our career and the biggest learning that we’ve had and those that we’ve coached have had is gosh you know what i wish i would have kept on network alive or kept networking or done this networking things sooner and really. It’s a big question after you get your new job. How are you gonna do that. How are you going to keep that network alive now that you’re working so one of the things thinks that i i have told people in the past is to get involved in industry associations and often the company that you’re working for will pay for your dues us to participate because in essence. You’re going to be representing them. The difficulty comes in when the company says no. They’re not going to sponsor you and that just happened and to me fairly recently where i was working in a job that I’ve been doing for a while. I have the expertise. I can represent well but because it had somebody somebody else representing. They’re not going to pay for my participation so i had to choose whether or not to do it or not for those who can’t afford to go ahead and join the local chapter. I still recommend do it. Get get yourself out there. Because of your company isn’t going to invest in you. Maybe it’s because they we don’t yet see the value if they see you out there and doing this and representing well especially if you’re moving into positions of leadership within these associations now they have a reason and you can come back and say if they say we want you to keep doing this great. Are you going to pay my dues because that’s how you’re going to get me to represent you and obviously you have to nuance that response but your value should be something they’re willing to pay for by all means keep networking. Keep doing it and don’t lose sight of the fact that the people in the associations are going to continue seeing your investment in there <hes> in their efforts and that could also lead to your next position. Let me set the stage. I just got a new job. I’ve been networking like crazy. I’ve been interviewing. I’ve run a course. I’ve run through the the grinder so to speak just and i just crossed the finish line and i’m starting my new job on Monday. It’s just such a relief to have that job. That’s a mindset. The mindset is i now have a job. I’m busy working now. I don’t know when i’m going to have time to carve out for networking right in and as you said associations was a good one. I also think that’s a good one. The first step really is to say you know what i know. This is important and i’m gonna prioritize it in sarai. I’m going to give it added value. I’m gonna put it in my <unk>. Whatever that looks like well. I think about my own experience with that. When i <hes> the last job i took i let them know that i’m moderate job seekers group every other Tuesday morning and that is something that i want to continue and i didn’t have to make it a condition of employment because this organization and had more organizations are doing it where they actually incentivize employees to give back to the community in some fashion so it was immediately. Luckily i got an immediate okay to yes. I can continue doing that but that keeps me in my networking mode so whenever possible if you’re going to regular networking event don’t stop just because you got a job you may not be able to attend as many differences you take a job where you have to travel occasionally or if there is a conflict of some kind keep your commitment to keep networking and that mindset is going to keep you in the game. Don’t overlook the value value of a thirty sixty ninety plan in terms of on boarding it accompany so even if even if they don’t ask for one even if you don’t provide in the interview go ahead and create one so you can say okay in the first thirty days i want to do this this and this inside the company and then i want to do this this and this outside the company doing networking or thanking people that got me to wear a matt or yeah in my journey.

05:07 – 10:12

Whatever that looks like there’s probably a handful the people that were really strategic. <hes> were had a real impact on your candidacy. Whatever that looks like that was influential in support well for those who use linked in or other <hes> social media or or other networking platforms that makes it easier to keep the networking going as long as you don’t forget to get back on and and invest a little bit of time there it really is a small investment needed to keep your hand in play <hes> but for those who don’t use social media or are otherwise disconnected from that venue. There are still things things you can do. It just takes some planning now for those of us. Who style isn’t really geared towards planning. We were more. Doers you know tell me what to do and i could do it but but i’m not as good at setting the stage for my follow up. That will take an effort. It is an effort that has well made. Well placed the idea idea that okay if i’m if i’m starting this job. I know that after the first month i’m going to have some stories to tell so as i approach coach starting my new job i’ll go to my calendar and set aside time to actually restart the conversations with a networking and i say restart because if you’ve been gone for a month you’re restarting them unless this is a monthly meeting and that is the natural cadence. You’re probably going to lose some momentum. Be aware of that and be ready to put on the the gas so that you’re getting back up to speed with. It really takes some planning and effort to make that happen and it will pay off in the end. When you get on that job you have your thirty sixty. Ninety plan set up these simple reminders to keep it in in your calendar so you don’t have to think about it really the approach. We encourage you to take in terms of mindset. Is this as an opportunity for you to pay it forward to to give back to people who have given to you so i’m gonna give back by helping somebody else right and maybe that’s <hes> you know i just wanna stay present with a certain group of people or i want to be a little more strategic and say okay now ellen. I’m here what’s next because we know in the scheme of things. The average tenure in an organization is probably two to three years roughly speaking and that means you should in the next two to three years be needing to find another job because either stale outdated or they’re going to ask you to leave right well and if you think about how you’re giving back you can be giving back to people within your organization to not in the the sense of this is the work that you do but this is the kind of value that you offer them personally. I just had someone although i do work in learning and development so there was a dotted line there but it was faint one and i had an employee come to me and ask about her own professional development and mentorship and how can she get involved with a mentor and i let her know that yes we do have a mentor program within the organization station. She shouldn’t limit herself to those within her organization who can mentor and this is another area where your professional associations can come into play usually at their networking functions. There will be people in a higher position at the event. They are expecting people to come up to them that they don’t know and talk to them. If she were to have approached me at the networking event i could have a different conversation that we’re going to have at work but by the same token at that our networking event i might be able to introduce her to someone at a higher level given the work that she does which was in more of a sales role. I know a lotta sales people well. I am very familiar with those who could be really good mentors for her who could open her <hes> her horizons beyond the company that she’s currently working for now. That doesn’t mean that she would get a job somewhere else. It means that she will be able to provide a richard value to the company. She’s currently working for but it. It really opens the mind win win. Think win win. I always always always so strange. How learnings from years ago come into your mind occasionally. I’ll get covey that comes into my mind and the seven habits and you you know there’s different habits that i remember. I don’t remember them all but they’re still there and they’re still true today. Yeah i would implement those in my networking right begin with the end in mind and why you’re staying yes exactly whereas like all those things matter in networking more than anything and so few the people actually use it <hes> i.

10:12 – 15:00

I’m always interested to observe people’s behavior at networking events because usually everybody comes in with the right i idea they want to do well by everyone else and yet we all fall into the pattern once something intrigues us oh. How is this going to benefit me. That’s human nature right. Those who really make a habit of seeking to understand of going beyond the self are the ones that stand out those the people that others gravitate towards because they’re not talking about themselves. They’re not trying to get their own situation better. They’re really focused on understanding the people around them and if you can take that approach to your networking you’re going to have a different experience. That brings us to a section action here called tactical execution when i started a new job i wanna have some tools some techniques maybe some advice on how to make system out out of this so i don’t have to think about it too much so i would encourage you get onto social media and maybe one of the things you do is just every time you get there have have a list of ten or twelve people and send them a message sir once once a quarter and if if ten people is too much break it up in okay this montana santa ana do five people the next month you do five more people the next five more people find people that that that will probably take three minutes k. but in that quarter you just contacted fifteen people and as you’re working this through i’m thinking about who is it that i’m contacting. Not what can they right. Bring me but what value can i bring. We talk about it in the podcast that we did a link ten about when you send a connection request. Give them a message as to why they should follow through on that. I still continue to get messages. You know i’d i’d like to join your link your network on lincoln and i’ve gotten into the habit of asking why i don’t just connect. I asked them why now. It’s not that i’m not willing to connect but i’d i’d like some some actual interaction because lynton has become so ubiquitous <hes> talk to me me first. Let’s network. I so for those who who actually bring that mindset to it. I’m i’m far more willing to to open up and start the conversation. I just want somebody that’s responsive on social media and i get those messages to and we’ll leave the link to the podcast on linked in that we just did recently in the show notes as well as the seven habits of highly effective people a book by steven covey the other thing i would encourage you to do is maybe have a list of i think the number that’s good for me as twelve. If you have a list of twelve people it breaks neatly into a quarter. Now you only have to contact one person week and people are going to go on the list of people are gonna come off the list but this list is your howard. You say you’re you’re eighteen. The people that you think can be influential not only your future but you can add value to and the nice thing about that. Is you build this relationship over time and win win and if you know it comes to the point where you wanna leave somewhere or they’re asking you believe you’ve got twelve people that you’ve been incubating relationship with with over time that that phone call is really productive. We could call each one of those twelve people and probably have something else lined up within a month. It really does come back to the idea of follow up though i say this in all of the classes that i i- facilitate follow up is the most important step of any process us so if you’re incubating now working relationship. It’s going to happen in the follow up. It’s not happening in the doing it’s in the understanding and doing because of the understanding understanding it really is a different way to approach building that relationship of trust so that social media. That’s a phone call. Maybe we’re also talking occasionally a handwritten note so if you only have twelve people i mean that might be a note twice a year. Maybe on a birthday or yeah yeah and the events that you have and birthday is fine because usually you’ll see when somebody’s birthday is on lake dan or some of the the other social media but if you’ve paid attention to when they’re anniversaries are whether that’s a work anniversary of personal anniversary whatever that is if they posted something thing about their kid graduating from college. Put something on your calendar the following year about a week less than a year to to bend sent a messa person hey.

15:01 – 20:10

How’s your daughter doing his. She’s been a year out of college. What’s going on the fact that you remember. That is really a good thing thing now. We’re not suggesting stock remembering the details. Make someone feel important and again you want to build trust the other alternative and we highly recommend. You do whatever you can to get somebody’s cell phone number. Honestly of course yes honestly not by over for pursuing asian. <hes> get the cinema text message. You know many <hes> generations now today will only only chat via text which they won’t respond to an email they won’t respond to a phone call but lo and behold you send me text message. You get an immediate response so part of this process with social media the phone call the text message or whatever is determining what is their primary method of communication and that they enjoy and where do they hang out on social media. There are the different apps available like slack and some of the others that i <music> i’m by no means am <hes> endorsing any and they all have their liabilities but some people will use these he’s alternate text opportunities rather than using their actual phone number and there’s a privacy issue is sort of that double edged sword thing find out what they prefer and use that whenever possible if you’re the type i admit to being where i’m always skeptical about putting a new app on my phone i would much rather use telephone text messages. You’re going to run into some resistance with that and that’s understandable. Don’t <unk> don’t push it too far do find out what their preference is and see if you can’t keep a conversation going that way not out of bounds if you have a solid relationship to. Maybe we do a facetime or video data if you’re separated in some way you know maybe that’s something to do with the celebration of some kind find your you know you could wrap it around that way. Yeah i definitely agree with you. That needs to be a solid relationship. I would not do a video chat with someone someone that i don’t know unless i set that up in advance <hes> so for example i just had a meeting with a consultant who is going to be working working with a company on lean six sigma and so i was part of that conversation to help keep the alignment between culture and what they’re doing and the efforts involved and he was on video what surprised me was. I was not expecting this to be a video call. I expected to be a conference call. What i liked about his approach was he left his camera on. Even though the others on the call all said they weren’t going to use video he allowed wow this so that we could get to know him and i’ll tell you in subsequent conversations it gets easier to then. Go ahead and turn the camera ron use video chat carefully but don’t don’t avoid it completely. Let’s talk about some systems ways to make this connecting the easy answer. We talked about the recurring calendar event. That’s low stakes. There’s another time there’s another plug in. You might look at four g mail. It’s it’s called boomerang. Boomerang allows you to send email in the future right you could. You’d have to right so if i met with scott today and we were gonna follow up. Maybe in two three months and have a lunch then i would say hey scott remember three months ago. We talked about having lunch or he’s still game and then you could send that <hes> as delayed email right. I i love that that service because i can take care of it while it’s in the moment. All all of my memories are fresh. I don’t have to rely on my memory to follow up two weeks later because by then i moved onto other topics. I love that idea. I believe <hes> outlook offer something similar as well very similar yes. I think it’s a send on. It’s an option in the options menu anyway. You have to have it it open to make it work nice thing about boomerang. It’s on the web at happens whether you’re there or not <hes> so. I think the other thing is if you’re looking to get a little more sophisticated with like a c._r._m. Or something like that you look at something like hub spot <hes>. I think that’s a really it’s free can’t get any better than free. <hes> ah so that allows you to track better than free if you pay for it yeah. I guess it is better than free for hub spot yeah anyway anyway so the idea there is you’d have something that you could manage this with. It’s a little more proactive and for those who don’t use of customer relations sion’s management system for heaven’s sakes a spreadsheet just so you can keep track of the people that you contacted when you contacted him so you can start to watch watch ooh.

20:10 – 25:07

I haven’t talked to that person at three months. I really should send a little message that hey. I was thinking about you but again. This takes a conscious effort to to get out there and say hey. I’m actually going to follow up with people because it’s too easy to just let them follow up with you because if you’re both doing that neither of you got any follow follow him and then you lose the relationship yeah i also know people that use one note or evernote to these kinds of things to keep track of their. They’re networking. We don’t want it to be too sophisticated because a system that takes more time to manage to actually execute. It may not be worth it in writing not use it there there. There are options out there. There’s no reason why we can’t keep on top of it to make it easier for ourselves right then you need to decide. Maybe what are the touch points points that i want to have with this person. How often do i wanna keep in touch with them. Maybe they were. How would you say it a hyper referral source and i’ve run into people like that that they’re they’re like promoting you to. Everybody and you don’t even know it right and staying connected with somebody like that. Maybe on a monthly basis would be a better idea because they’re out in the community. They’re active. They’re always promoting you. You wanna stay. Sir thankful connected grateful and see if they can’t continue to do that on your behalf not only that but how can you pay that forward and make sure that they are aware that you are helping them because if the only thing that i’m doing doing is to say thank you for for helping me and i want you to continue helping me. Where’s the benefit for you on the other hand if i can turn around and and add value to your world than this actually makes for a better. It gives you a chance to do that sure right. The idea is you’d still wanna be in touch with that person. Maybe on a monthly basis versus this is a quarterly basis or semi annual basis whatever that looks like <hes> and then i think it’s important to collect data not in various way but just to my my memories good but it’s not perfect right. I wish it was and there’s things that i wish i would have kept track of when i was working way back win for x._y._z. Company right that would have been great to have so i can put it on my resume. Well formation think about the people that you work with in your past and that at the time you you knew when their anniversaries where you knew where their birthdays were there kids you know the whole thing and then when you see them twenty years later or ten years later and you think oh shoot what was his wife’s name name or oh he had three kids and they were all about to enter college. What were you know. These are things that if you’re keeping records you should be able to find them and and then the next time you speak to him. Hey how’s john marion and ellen doing. You’re gonna blow that mohinder right because you actu burst. You cared enough to track that information and they’re gonna think you’ve just flat remembered it yeah it did. It just happened to be in your spreadsheet career. Well people are thinking oh well. He’s lucky to to be able to remember things well. Luck is good for the prepared does very well for the prepared. The people who actually put the effort into taking those notes generally do better with them. That’s bright that does it for this episode job seekers radio. You can get all the show notes. It’s in resources at job. Seekers radio dot com forward slash zero five seven or there’s a link down below in the show notes. Click that link. Why why you’re clicking that link. There’s also one for our free resource which is the anatomy of a networking conversation. It’s an e book. That internet put together has audio. We want you to be able to use this. <hes> get some benefit from it. If there are or questions that you have you can also give us that feedback. <hes> we love getting questions too so that we can answer specific needs absolutely absolutely and that now anatomy of a networking e book will actually help you build kind of an idea on how you should approach reconnecting with these people over advertiser. Well thank you everybody for joining us for this episode of job seekers radio. We really appreciate your investment of time and attention. We acknowledge it while you’re you’re finishing up here. We want you to head over to itunes and subscribe to get future episodes if you haven’t already and even if you have please go back. Give give us a rate and review. <hes> let us know how we’re doing if they’re as i said before if there are questions that you have some topic you want us to cover. Let us know there where we’re happy to to help you in any way we can well. This is andrew and i’m scott until next time according to debby boone dreams these are the seeds of change nothing ever grows without a scene and nothing ever changes without a dream thanks everybody.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Ghosting is a recent phenomenon where candidates are left in the cold during the hiring process. Although it doesn’t feel good, Scott and Andrew discuss some strategies on how to deal with ghosting to move your search forward.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• What is ghosting and when does it occur in job search
• Strategies to deal with ghosting
• The role of networking in overcoming the silence
• The reasons for ghosting 
• Mindset for success when you are ghosted

Resources (including affiliate links)

What Color is Your Parachute 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00 – 05:03

We are talking about ghosting and i don’t mean ghostbusters yeah or anything of that nature now. We’re not talking about the paranormal so not normal but that’s something else so by ghosting. We mean that radio silence you hear after hiring team has demonstrated interest in you and the role had promised we’re going to move forward and it could be the company. It could be a networking contact. It could be anybody the idea that someone has expressed interest in you in in some fashion to some degree and then as you send your follow up or you’re you’re trying to get feedback. You don’t hear anything back whenever i am asked about this. I always start with the idea that it probably has nothing to do with you. This is one of those and i know we’ve said this. Empire podcast is one of those things where it’s hard not to wonder. What did i do wrong when most of the time name it has nothing to do with you. That’s great advice scott but i did the networking. I did the application. I’ve been through interviews. They said they were gonna send me. An offer and heaven only knows. I have been in a position where i was. The hiring manager and something happened happened where we had to delay higher out. I had the presence of mind to let the applicant. No you know we’re we’re having to put this on. Hold will understand if you find another job before this one is we can move forward on it. That’s the thing a lot of people get busy and they don’t think about the things they don’t think about in getting back to an applicant is probably one of those things they don’t think about. Try not to take it personally. If there is something to learn from it. The lesson will show it is is what it is right and you don’t control the internal workings of an organization that means you should go to the next one. Yes it also means. You need to take notes. What does that say about the organization. Is that something that’s happening. Consistently with them is this indicator of what the future looks like for you. That’s a really you want an organization where you feel like you’re being valued. I been in the situation and i’ve talked to people when when you’re unemployed. It’s really hard to pick and choose if you are in a position where you need a job. It’s hard not to just take whatever comes salaam to your point. If you’re taking notes on how they treat the applicant the chances are pretty good. They’re going to be treating their their employees the same way so if the treatment you’re getting an applicant isn’t what you would want to deal with on the job bear that in mind as you continue to tried to to work your way in there may be some unpleasantness involved <hes> if you actually landed the job and this cuts both ways that means if you have control control over the ghosting. You probably not do it. Thank you and if you’re the company or you’re the applicant doesn’t matter don’t goes people. I think the the easy explanation for a lack of follow up is that it’s out of sight outta mind. Oh i forgot and okay. It’s also just as easy when you put the appointment on your calendar to actually meet with this person at that time. Put a reminder for a week later to follow up and it’s a very simple process or even schedule another meeting. I think that’s valuable advice. If you’re in a position where you had an interview and you are not clear on on the next step schedule something to have a follow up meeting not hey. I’ll just follow up in a week. I think about this. There have been times when someone asks me what what what can we do to follow up and really. I want as the hiring manager control over that because i don’t know how long it’s gonna take me to get through the interviews it. I don’t know exactly when the start times would be and so. I want to maintain a certain amount of control with that sad. I’m also aware that somebody very who’s looking for work needs to know what the next steps are and that we follow up in a timely way so there are all sorts of excuses why i people don’t follow up. Don’t be that person. Don’t be the one who lacks the follow up. Be sure that you’re sending follow up and it is critical. If it’s a position you’re actually interested in that applies for the candidate. The applicant is will so if you’re in hollywood and you’ve been given. Let’s say they even said hey. I’m sending can you offer inherit is or hey.

05:03 – 10:00

Here’s an offer you accept and you don’t show up for work right well. I mean these. Are that has happened to me where i hired. Someone who never showed obviously won’t hire them again. Just know that the says a lot about your brand it does and do you want that brand going forward because i don’t no no about your town but here in portland it’s a small community you know and people will find out eventually and and you’re going to rent out a references at that point. I do think that there are good reasons. Why people don’t follow up but the the really good reasons are few and far between the one thing that i would do though is if you find that you’ve you’ve dropped the ball on that when you do contact the other person and let them know hey. I know i dropped the ball. I apologize. I’d like to get everything back contract by owning it. People are much more likely to give you a second chance. If you just sort of ignore the fact that you were supposed to contact them two weeks prior and hey just wanted to follow up <hes> they probably are not going to have the same in reaction. What we’re suggesting here is make sure that you follow up you own it and then actually follow up. You don’t want to create a series of times where you’re always having to apologize as well if every conversation starts with i’m sorry there’s a problem that means you know. I could list a thousand things right there too busy. They’re you too lazy. They’re they’re themselves looking for a job right on the corporate right right or you know like a friend of mine. <hes> just was diagnosed with cancer the answer i mean we don’t know who the person is on the other end of the line and and things happen that you don’t control that side of it you only control your own activities. That means what you can do about it is don’t make a promise it. You can’t sleep and don’t make an offer that you can’t follow up on it. There’s also the idea that you actually i think taught me years ago and how to follow up after you’ve made your application but follow up with other people in the organization to to try and see what the timeline looks like get a pulse on that job opening because i remember talking to someone i applied for prepositions was years ago applied for a position and it actually have been put on hold but they weren’t letting anybody know the recruiter. Wasn’t i happen to have a conversation with somebody else in the organization who was able to find out for me. Oh that’s been put on hold. I had a completely different reaction once. I knew that now as it happens i got a job somewhere else but at least i wasn’t wondering why that hasn’t worked out for me that it was again completely out control and had nothing to do with me in working talking to other people in the organization you get a better idea of how things flow anyway and if you know someone who has any contact with recruiting and at some point they probably did then you’re probably going to get a better idea of how things as function network end try different avenues to get information about the process and what you might learn is that in many organizations nations recruiting sits in a different function it’s not in the operation all the time right and that means they operate differently than the actual actual operation that you’re going to be working in. If it’s anything mid size or larger company you can guarantee that. The recruiters are working somewhere else. It may be the same building may not. They are going to be filling a very different role from what’s happening happening operationally. That’s why we encourage you if you’re not looking for jobs in h._r. Don’t spend a lot of time there if you don’t have to each are people will tell you that i’ve worked in h._r. Here for years and we’re not the ones you need to be spending your time and energy on unless you’re trying to get into our department okay. I’m trying to get in your your department scheduled the meeting right well. It’s something like that but at least you’ll be able to talk shop and you’ll have an idea of what they may. Maybe going through to your point unless you’re looking for a job in h._r. Don’t spend a lot of your time there. Yes if that’s the gatekeeper you want to build a a good relationship. That isn’t where the depth needs to happen. You should really be focusing on building your relationships with people in operations about operations operations and so they see you in their operations. Trust is a number one key to getting hired in that is really the only way to develop trust is through a referral or a direct relationship and what we’re suggesting is because h._r. Is a different function. It may operate differently and that means they may a. B.

10:01 – 15:08

understaffed. There may be a lot of reasons but no excuse makes it feel better when it happens. That’s true and what we i would encourage you to do is was just take another swing right. Go find another company. Remember what got you to that interview in the first place. Go do more that because you’re you’re gonna drive yourself. Crazy easy waiting for someone else to take action on your candidacy. I may have said this before but i generally follow the idea that you follow up the week. After an interview or initial contact i then wait two weeks for a second follow up. <hes> wait another two weeks with a third follow up and in that message say hey. I’m interested and i don’t want to pester you so i oh leave the ball in your court hope to hear from you and leave it at that because if after six weeks you haven’t heard from them it’s time to move on it may be time to move on. It may be time to just send him on incubation schedule to follow up with the person in the operation reassure your h._r. Gatekeepers at that the the abbot of the active follow-up is really keep that short allowed that relationship to live on its own mm-hmm as best you can through your networking with the people in the industry that do what you wanna do not about the job itself and don’t stop looking until tell the day you start work. I agree my to someone can promise you an offer that doesn’t mean you’re going to get one. I’ve known people who are given an offer they accept the offer and then something happens to end the job was discontinued so they never got hired and so they never started right. Never stop looking until the day you start work and this is coming from a lot of experience on this site of the microphone right is i’ve seen it more than once where someone they’re in a search. They went through all the interviews they got the promise of of an actual offer and say what my job’s done and they stopped looking. The offer never came in. They were two two three weeks down the road. Hey where’s my offer right. Sorry it’s not common and now i’m starting from zero. I have no other opportunities -tunities in the pipeline. I echo your advice. Don’t stop looking until your first day on the job if you’re to look at that kind of idea this relates a lot to what we talk about in terms of mindset and the mindset is. I’m not stopping until i’m never stopped looking. I’m always gonna network. You’re right. It’s keeping that rhythm rhythm that cadences going even though hey i’ve got the job and i started working. I’m not gonna stop. I’m gonna start this process over again with a little more deliberate approach coach proactive whenever that looks like right something that says okay. You know what i do believe in fairy tales okay. Every story has a happy ending. What’s your mindset. Is that okay. I’m going to go look for the next happy ending highly. That’s a great idea the wherever you thought you know so you said earlier imagined right imagine agean what it would be like right and if that happened what would that mean for you right. You started thinking about that for yourself. Ultimately i’ve known of several people well who couldn’t find their happy he so they created their own and they went into business for themselves. Now that’s not necessarily for everybody that also is an option and and when i’ve been on that fine edge where you do the consulting work and people don’t wanna hire a consultant because they don’t want your time and attention drawn away from there were but at the same time i will never stop doing what i love doing a you can either employ me full-time and i’ll devote myself to it or if you’re not going to engage me then that’s fine. I’ll do what you need me to but i’m going to continue to do the things that i love and it can be a hobby for now. What what else side-hustle would have you know contracting a freelance thing on the side. How common is the gig economy now. Many of us have second secondary and dairy of of course we can go into a whole podcast dark side gig but the the idea here is that ghosting happens yes but it’s not your problem. It’s it’s the company’s problem and they need to do something about it. If you talked to any forward thinking h._r. Leader he’s going to tell you we would never operate that way and that’s how you know that you have a good h._r. Department is how do they treat their candidates because they recognize that the candidate is also possibly a customer car or also is gonna carry that into the future and with things like glass door. They can’t afford that. That’s another podcast that we can do but i really don’t don’t be the ghost and don’t take it personally when you’re ghosted that does it for this episode of job seekers radio you can get all the show notes and resources in the link down down below or at job seekers radio dot com forward slash zero five six while you’re there.

15:09 – 16:21

You should see the link to a free resource that we’ve created. It’s called anatomy of networking conversation. It’s an e book that andrew and i put together would love it if you’ve download that and take it to heart yes and it comes actually with a series of audio so there’s the there’s the book and then there’s audio that comes with that walks you through the anatomy of the conversation itself so thank you for joining us for this episode of job seekers radio. Your investment of time time and attention is greatly appreciated head on over to itunes and subscribe to get those future episodes while you’re there click. The five-star plays ways. I don’t know you don’t have to cook five star but at least leave us a rate and review. We liked the feedback and we like to spread the message so do whatever you can. If you have questions for us. Let us know there are multiple ways to get in touch with us so let us know if there’s something that you want us to discuss specifically and we’ll be happy to do that while i’m andrew and i’m scott until next time according to justin timberlake the best part about being alone is that you really don’t have to answer to anybody. You do what you want.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

When in the networking and hiring process do I introduce my resume? That is a question often asked. How and when you introduce your resume is the topic of this episode.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• To introduce, or not, the resume?
• When in the process of networking to present the resume
• What to say to increase your chances of getting interviews 

Resources (including affiliate links)

What Color is Your Parachute 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00 – 05:02

Welcome to job seekers radio. I’m andrew and i’m scott. This production action is meant to provide you meaningful support to find great careers faster whether you’re working or not today on job seekers radio were talking about the very best first time to introduce your resume in a hiring process. I always start this conversation because it comes up frequently for us. Can i have your resume. That’s the question we always get and. I think that’s an appropriate time to provide it. If you haven’t if it’s the right setting and that’s really the crux of what we wanted to talk about if it’s requested provided now there are appropriate settings for that if you are are in a situation where someone says you’ve had this conversation with him. It’s been really rich you you feel like you’ve made that great connection and the opportunity -tunities truly opening up in the ask the resume absolutely say yes don’t have it in your briefcase or book bag and ready to give it right then and i know no andrew you’ve said this to people as well because that makes you appear just a little too eager and desperate yeah <hes> so now so if i had asked you for your resume i would question was that the point of our conversation in the first place and now questioning your your motives instead ad i can have a copy on in an e mail a blank email that i sent to myself and i can then forward to this person just by asking for for either his phone number to text him or her or the email and then on using my phone i can send it on its way so they’re still getting it great idea i would actually i’m gonna add that to my toolkit. Thanks for mentioning that getting that cell phone number is so critically important and that’s one low friction way to get oh. Do you wanna copy resume sound great. Why don’t i text it to you. What’s your number right and on right here and then they can be reviewing it while while they’re still thinking about you but the idea is you’re. You’re providing your contact information along with your resume. You’re getting this person’s contact information and a way to follow up huge getting that cell phone number added to your address book. You’ll then know how to get a hold of that person whether they’re at the office at the gym. They’re still with that company to route with. That company doesn’t matter. They’re likely still have the same cell number that they had since they were well well well but then again they may give you their email address and that’s okay too. If you get this l. number number ask for that. I mean texas about an email. Okay fine start with the text. I think the interesting discussion that we were having before we started today was where the resume is is today and what does that mean and with the advent of the internet. There’s so much more of a rich experience online that what really role does the resume play today. We’ve we’ve talked about this in the past. I agree with you that the resume isn’t really that useful anymore. Unfortunately it still required so having a good idea idea of how you present yourself. We talk in other podcasts. We’ve talked about personal branding. I know that that is a popular popular topic with coaches in how to brand yourself in a job market. I think it’s critical that we we use that approach because how you land is as important as the skills and knowledge that you have if you don’t know how you land that self awareness or lack of self awareness is is going to eventually become obvious and that’s not going to work for you. Well however if you can brand yourself. You know what you’re offering. Looks like you know what your differentiator differentiates differentiator cz. Are you know how you can position yourself in the market that makes the conversation flow a lot better so the resume if it’s aligned with that brand can actually help reinforce the conversation you’ve had but i do think the best way to use that resume it to have the conversation i whenever possible and then allow it to reinforce the conversation by conversation what we’re talking about out here some sort of networking interaction. We’ve had a really strategic discussion about what they’re doing or perhaps even what you have to offer and how that overlays sure and you have an opportunity then yes to send it right away. If you want to or you can take a few minutes back at the office us to make sure that you update your resumes act to reflect what they’re telling you in that conversation yeah and and the reason that’s important is because this is your one shot once that resume is out of your hands.

05:03 – 10:01

It’s like you know right. It’s out of your hands. You can’t really back in you know. It’s like they say when you fire fire gun. You can’t put a you can’t put the bullet back in the gun. After you pull say something you regret you. Can’t you can’t eat those words. Again is out already right we again. It’s the topic that we’ll continue to come up in terms of customizing the resume to match the language the key words the needs of the person who’s asking for for it and hopefully when you if you’re applying for a job where the networking conversation isn’t really a possibility then it’s really really important to look at the job description. You don’t want to rewrite the job description as your your resume because that becomes obvious as well but you do want to use use the same language and that should be pretty easy five. Maybe ten minute effort to personalize your resume to the company. I need that that is asking for it if you can have a conversation with someone and it doesn’t have to be the h._r. Person or the hiring manager it could be anybody in the organization who is has been in there long enough to understand the culture they would be able to provide just a conversation enough of the cultural keywords so that your resume actually will resonate and many companies depending on the level of the role you’re looking at offer those employees some sort of stipend phoniness <hes> some sort of check in the mail kind of thing so that they can feel like they’re getting a commission for bringing a candidate right had a a a friend of mine. Just tell me the other day he if he brings in an engineer like someone in software or tech. He gets a three thousand dollar bonus. I’ve worked worked for companies where we got a fifty dollar bonus if they got hired and then we got another larger bonus after their ninety day probationary period was over or i in fact one of them. Actually it was a year if they if they lasted a year and you are still there you would get another bonus so if you’re unsure of whether or not someone’s company. If you’re <unk> you’re trying to get into i’ll make this up. You’re trying to get into intel and you know somebody works there. Ask them whether or not they get the referral fee the <hes> or whatever language they use and then make sure that you used their name both in your application where it says were you referred heard by anyone but also in your cover letter in any communication that you have with them. You sound like you’re already on the inside because that’s going to help the hiring manager injuring when else actually pay attention to the resume that you’re trying to customize and you may want to copy them on any future correspondence actually them in the loop so they don’t feel like hey i referred you for saying they’re probably just as in the dark as you are pro. If you’re not hearing anything keeping them up to date makes a huge the difference but it also helps them to follow up with the internal folks you know recruiting or whoever to say hey did you get so and so’s resume so again that follow following plays a big part and your resume. Today is really being displaced very quickly by platforms lincoln right. This is why we’re so such big big advocates of lincoln it gives you an opportunity not only to display your wares meaning your resume or an electronic version of it also allows you to see people that you can connect with credibility so glassdoor dot com. Does it indeed dot com allows you to put your resume on. I and they’re all good. There are so many others but i do like linked in because you can get a better idea of someone’s network. You know who are the people that they’re connected back to now. Of course there’s the other side of it when those of us who are connected with far more people than we could possibly keep up with that doesn’t mean that i’m not willing to reach out to somebody that i haven’t spoken to a long time. I will still do that but you get an idea of the circle of people that someone’s connected to by looking at the comets limits that they’re making on on lincoln and other social media platforms. You can see how involved they are if you can let’s see the activities that they do so are they attending a job fair <hes> either as a vendor or as an applicant or as a a mentor. Whatever are they doing community service of any kind what gets them out into the community. These are ways that social media can actually help you and as you’re looking at how you want to present yourself on your resume you can tailor that to meet the needs of the industry mystery or the community that you’re trying to network into as long as you are changing who you are exactly or what you wanna do through that roll. That’s a real cousin.

10:01 – 15:09

I what i’ve found is a lot of people consider the resume a catalog of everything they ever did without looking got it as a brochure of their strengths that relates to something they wanna do so that one is a conscious choice. The other is just a brain dump well. I understand understand when when someone puts their resume together and they’re inexperienced. They just keep sending out the same resume over and over again. You don’t wanna miss any of that information but i will say if you want your resume to stand out to really land where needs to land hit its mark then you need to to sort of lead the catalog behind and give them a specific brochure that is going to show them how you’re going to fill their need that predicates that you actually know what their the need is and taking the time and we have a great resource for this. Actually it’s called the anatomy of a networking conversation. It’s a free download on the job seekers radio website a we’ll leave that in the show notes down below. It’s a free free resource for you. We encourage you to use it. It’s a e-book that scott naive put together that will help you get to the people so you can know what their needs are right and then you can develop a strategy from there when they ask obscure resume the more networking you do the better and easier. This gets in terms of how to discuss what you’re really looking for. If as we’ve said said in prior podcast we talk about always working on a project when you’re having this conversation and you refine the way you discuss it. You’re thinking about your personal branding. You’re positioning yourself as you’re looking at the responses that you’re getting you’re listening to what they’re saying. You can actually get a really good idea of the direction. They’re going and at that point. If you offer something that you think might be helpful to them. You can actually ask them. What are you doing in this space well. How do you approach these issues because in my perspective i’ve approach it a certain way. I’m really interested to know if if there are different ways to approach it and they may say well. We’re going at it from a completely opposite way now. I can’t instead of competing with that. How do i compliment data because it’s not necessarily zero sum game. You might also get a response from someone who says well. We’re really not approaching. We don’t know how have you ever considered considered x y and z. What would it be like if x y and z happened right and you’re in this place so that would be wonderful exactly exactly so imagine this and i love that language imagine yourself using this perspective this methodology this approach and what if it got that result for you. Would that be what you’re looking for. How can i help you get there well. I don’t know scott. Maybe i could use your resume. I’d love take that to our senior leadership for sure. Let me let me get that to you. I can text it to you. If you wanna give me your mobile number <hes> or i can email to you and then if there’s time i will customize this to make sure that it shows everything that we talked about perfect. Will this is is a great way to introduce your resume is to understand the audience. They ask for a resume then you send them. The resume customized. That’s appropriate yeah. I guess we can look at the flip side of the coin and there’s times where i think it’s inappropriate to introduce a resume and maybe we could cover some of those situations my first one would be. Hey if i’m scheduling a network meeting with somebody that i send it with that request and if that has come come out that hey send the your resume with a request that’s one thing yeah i would never volunteer it at the beginning in large part because that basically sets the tone for a one way conversation and if i’m not in a position where i regularly take in resumes and it’s obvious this is my function function yeah why well i just want you to review it. Give me some feedback why <hes> because i just wanna make sure it meets the needs of your company. Why so i can get a job okay so here’s the three wise instead of over five hundred now i understand that’s which going for and i now have a way a reason reason to say no which we don’t want right so instead if you were to say. Can i have a conversation and i would like to have a conversation about what lettuce liked to work at your company. What what are your priorities. What are you guys working on right now because there’s so many people in your industry in our area talk to tell me about what differentiates that well you know. It’s one of those things scott where there’s this intellectual property so i can’t go do that networking because because they can’t share the intellectual property with me so how what what does that challenge look like that as you’re trying to grow your own knowledge around that topic.

15:09 – 20:11

It’s difficult buckle. I mean we really have to keep things secret. I understand that especially with as much piracy as happens. What does your security methodology look like. Why could could share that with you but but then i wouldn’t be working here anyway so there’s always a stumbling block sure that process and what we’re encouraging can you to do is do whatever you can get a conversation. Don’t start with the resume because it takes the conversation direction yeah that you may not wanna go. Well bill and it’d be productive outcome. You want exactly it will lead senator to the dead end that brings me to the second place. I would not put my resume and that is on linked then i feel that linked in is a replacement for the resume and it’s actually a lot has a lot more texture to it and often people put their resume resume on. They’re not realizing they have all their personal contact information. Oh or they just leave it. There and it’s like five years old. That’s yeah just not wise. I i really struggle when i see someone who i know has left the position that is currently listed as a current job right someone that tells me that they don’t use lincoln whether or not they do. I’ve seen two things when it comes to putting a resume on lincoln and i just saw something on lincoln from a recruiter cruder and and consultant <hes> where the first bit of advice she gave was never used the word unemployed if you’re looking for work. Don’t don’t use that word in your headline on lincoln us. Maybe a title but certainly the topic of what you’re looking to do. Whether that’s the job you you want or the industry or that the function that you that you’re looking for that is going to help. The recruiters actually pay attention to you. Don’t put the word unemployed because that’s really not helpful with that. Sad people will say you know they’re they’re looking for their next opportunity the and then they they provide their resume below but there’s really no direction and that no branding nothing so if you put what what you want in your headline that indicates your expertise and your knowledge in the value you can bring and then at let all of your experience support report that now you have something that’s going to be a little more compelling but to your point. It’s a different way to present your experiences not a resume by itself and the nuances maybe aby slight pay attention. I generally tell people look at people who you admire that are doing the work you wanna do and look look at how they brand themselves when it’s really cohesive and the direction is clear emulate that don’t copy it but emulated and you probably we’ll get a better result from your profile. The linked in profile actually has a lot more texture in my mind resume. There’s a photograph you can attach documents. You can put in different projects. People can see your recommendations right. You’re -dorsements what groups you’re in. There’s a lot more context on lincoln than you get from a resume. You actually get to see the person what they’re thinking through. The act like you said the activities are participating in on the platform. It really gives you a more clear perspective on who that person is and whether or not you wanna have them in for an interview as i can see a day where the resume is not going to be required. I would hope so need to piece of advice that i was given a few years ago that i will admit it has fallen off the wayside for me but that is is to start a conversation once a week because that will put you back in the news feed and it helps people to trust you when they see you you more often and we think about the reason why walter cronkite was the most trusted news anchor and the nineteen sixties and seventies was because has he was in people’s living room every single week night. It’s the integrity and everything else. We’ll we’ll set aside that was all true but the idea that when you invite invite someone whether it’s a direct invitation or you allow it in in this case by reading their activities on social media media the more they see you the more they will trust you. That frequency makes the difference be involved at that texture to your resume. Make sure that you’re you’re putting your skills in their be be involved with it. Just now that the resume is one tool in a hiring process right and it’s not the only tool cool exact if you’re only leaning on the resume to be successful in a search whether that’s for a promotion or looking outside a company for a larger roll or if you’re unemployed and searching the resume is just one tool and it is even the most effective tool i in fact i tell people to put their link tin of your l.

20:11 – 23:49

on their resume so that if in fact someone does request your resume they can then from there. Look at your lincoln profiling <music>. Get the rest of the story. There’s no substitute for a solid relationship. We encourage you not only to have the resume linked in but to build relationships of trust trust with people in positions of some sort of purchasing power for people to hire people so that you can get where you want to go in your search and again. I come down to having that conversation in some fashion. It might be just a couple of emails if that’s all they’re willing to do. It may be just the way they post for a position if you can’t get in the door really look at that. Try to make your personal branding align with zehr the air branding and you’re more likely to get in. Don’t offer the resume until it’s requested often. It’s a conversation ender introducing a resume somme says oh. I thought we were just having a conversation now. There’s a resume conversation is over. We’ll say shit has changed it or it’s the thanks for being being honest about it. Even even if it’s a brief i think about the job fairs where you have only five minutes to talk to you. The first thing you do is put down resume the way. I like to think about offering a resumes. That is the beginning of the close. This is beginning the end of the conversation. If you want a longer than a two to five minute conversation weight because the timer starts as soon as you have that resume i would say the conversation will probably end and in within five minutes because the message is here’s everything you need to know about me and that’s rarely true and you can’t get it from me it you you can only get it from the paper. All wait yuck hit. Read it. You go have a cup of coffee and peter read my resume yeah. It’s not gonna happen not a great strategy. We realized that there’s probably a whole bunch more in terms of instances where it might be good might be bad something that we’d love to hear from you. The the listener is what has worked for you. And what hasn’t when you go into the website. You’re going to be able to give us feedback. Make sure that you’re letting us know what has worked for you. What hasn’t worked for you as well as any questions questions that you might have show notes and resources are in the link down below or at job seekers radio dot com forward slash zero zero five five andrew mentioned earlier. We have the anatomy of the networking conversation e book. That’s also there. You can find the link to it and let us know what what how that might help you. <hes> we’d love to get feedback. Thank you for joining us for this episode of job. Seekers radio your investment of time nine and attention is greatly appreciated head over to itunes and subscribe to get future episodes and while you’re there we’d love it if you would provide a rate and review we enjoy the feedback it helps us to help you and it helps you spread the message. If you’ve got something out of this one of your friends or someone else might also get value now working groups we well. I’m andrew and i’m scott until next time a quote by wayne dyer. We knew dance dance. Your purpose is not to get to a certain place on the dance floor to enjoy each step along the way as everybody by buying.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

When you are in a situation where things just aren’t right, and you feel out of place, that’s when you may have lost that loving feeling for your work.

Learn strategies from Andrew and Scott to cope with that feeling for positive change.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Satisfaction versus Dissatisfaction
• How to Change Your current situations
• Advocating for your own happiness at work
• The Role of Networking in finding satisfaction
• Simple strategies for keeping track of what you love doing

Resources (including affiliate links)

FREE Course: Building Your Bankable Branding Statement 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00 – 05:05

Welcome to job seekers radio. I’m Andrew and I’m Scott. This production is meant to provide meaningful support to fight great careers faster and that’s whether you’re working or not today on job seekers radio were opening the door on reality yeah. There’s situations where you’re working at a company and you just lost that loving that loving delia unfortunately unfortunately it happens to most people if not everyone at some point in their careers. You’re in a job. Maybe it started out as your dream job. Things were looking great and then something changed because nothing lasts forever right so maybe it was your our best boss ever hired you into the job and helped you learn the things you need to do and that person moved on and the new boss doesn’t care whatever the situation is you get into that position where you’re maybe you’re burned out here for whatever reason you’re not enjoying working there anymore. It’s normal satisfaction dissatisfaction. Yeah some of this has to do with external forces but your ownership of satisfaction dissatisfaction will depend on on your ability to say yes or not thing and often when I found is in fact. I’m in a situation now where yes I’m doing a lot of the work that I love but I’m not getting enough of it or I’m not being paid what I feel. I’m more all these things so really this this. The idea of resentment comes in we talked about that a little bit prior to coming on air there there are some things and the thing is I want to give the qualifier. This can happen regardless of your position. I have known people who are the top person at their company who also get dissatisfied for some reason. We have to understand that this is a human thing then we’re not going to be supremely happy all day every day for the balance of our careers. It’s it’s not possible for that to really happen unless controlled rolled substance. Let’s Lo we’re going to set that aside. Okay but there are things that we can do to actually help us sort of keep our minds on the positive going down. The negative road is easy. People describe it as a slippery slope. It’s normal. There’s a problem with that. If for no other reason that you then start to bring other people with you and you can lose those professional relationships if you’re always complaining about something if you’re looking looking at different speeds satisfaction disatisfaction whatever your thinking about whatever you are looking for. You’re gonNA find it so I think it’s really important to start looking for the things that bring you happiness that bring you satisfaction Atas faction focus on the things that you like about the work that you do and as you continue to keep that in your focus you will attract more of that into your existence even documented we get to the valley so to speak and and we’re resentful fool. We don’t know why we’re doing this. Nothing’s going our way and we have you know we know there were days where things were much better but we didn’t take the time to actually document what they were in what we were doing in why shorted liked to those things and if you’re not a journal nature because some people keep journals all the time they that’s how they process. They’re thinking I personally. I’ve started many journals and brearley finish them. I don’t keep up with it because that’s not how I process to your point. If I am paying attention to things that I really love to do and I’m writing those down. I can’t come back to that list and remind myself these things that in the past have brought me a sense of satisfaction what on that list can I do today and and there’s a process that we go through it came up at my current job just yesterday about the love it and low the lists and so as you’re looking at the work that you’re doing take a moment to write down the things that you love doing go ahead ahead. Write down the things that you love doing you can keep the balance on the stuff you love and if there is so much of the stuff that you loathe on your list that you have to do everyday have a conversation with your supervisor whoever that manager may be to try and shift the balance back to the things that you love because I found in many cases. The manager wants you to be happy. They want you to be engaged. They want you to be satisfied in the work that if you’re doing so that you continue to be productive even more important Scott is when you get a new manager in that’s the source of your change. You probably want to be proactive in having a conversation about that so that you saw yourself up for success absolutely because often it’s the leadership that changes in your like holy crap this. This ship is going to different direction is does that mean for me. What does that mean for me? Should I hold that new manager who has just changed everything at arm’s length. Thanks or should I put my pride aside and go talk to this person and make sure I’m developing a professional relationship.

05:06 – 10:01

That’s beneficial for both of us right. I remember early in my career. I had that opportunity with a new boss. I let her know that there were a few people who are I’m going to be willing to tell her the truth about what really happens here and I let her know some of the things that had not been so positive. Guess what I didn’t get to keep that job very long. If instead I had gone to her and said these are the things that I love to do these are might strengths. I look forward to working with you on deploying the against those strengths doing the things that I love. I would have had a very different experience with that new. Boss isn’t that interesting how things work out because because if I come in the her first conversation I’m telling her all the negative stuff that’s the impression I just red flag up big time read fitness. Now that can work both ways of course right is that there might be something that they’re saying is negative and you’re not is still l.. Say State positive positive okay so if you’re in that situation and you feel like the loving feeling is maybe fading or going away. Those are some strategies to think about at some point you might WanNa consider something else outside the company and in that case it takes a a lot of energy it sure does let’s be honest. You’re working hard. We all have things going on in our lives. <hes> I have commitments with my family with my church with my job of course and also my own private practice. Yes I have all these is different commitments. How do I fif- job search inside of that? Well the one thing that I it was actually my brother that gave me the advice many many years ago we make time to do the things that are important to us and the the other side if that is if you’re not making the time it’s not important enough to you and that’s fine but the honest about that be honest with yourself that I’m not getting another job because I’m not putting the time and energy into getting another job. That’s on me. It’s not on anybody else if I own that and I think okay I see that I’m not doing this and it’s important enough for me to do it. I will make the time the time isn’t going to make itself along those lines. We need to be willing to make a commitment to something Georgia somebody or to something and adding a job search into your process means you’re going to have to make margin somewhere and that means something or somebody has to give and having those conversations wins and blocking that time off in your calendar blocking the time. There’s a reason why we procrastinate now part for me. Personally I deliberately procrastinate things to a certain extent because deadlines helped me focus and when I know I have to have something done by Friday at three P._M.. And it’s Wednesday my brain starts to focus on what it is that I need to do so that I get that done on time on Friday and it works very well for me. I’m almost always days on time and I’m always on time if I have all the control over what’s what’s happening right then when it’s time for me to look for another job I’m putting off putting in those applications. I’m not putting in the same kind of energy and I it can give you all laundry list of reasons why do that. The problem is not committed to the job search so this is where getting that personal commitment to blocking in the time and making good on that for myself. That’s the only way I’m going to make that progress rest and I’m not saying this just because I am an executive career coach hiring somebody like me to force that accountability that discipline is not a bad strategy it. It’ll help you accelerate the process. If is something you really want. You should probably invest money in that kind of activity. It’s something to consider for sure and consistently without fail in the career transition work done where people have been laid off the number one thing bar none that they regret not doing is networking networking and keeping in touch and maintaining relationships with people not only inside their org but outside their org right and they make a commitment at that point that is the thing they’re not going to ever stop doing and this also is going to help you in many other ways especially if you’ve lost that loving feeling for the job you currently have generally most jobs that I’m aware of there is some group whether that’s a national association a local networking group whatever it is that it meets in your area fairly regularly go to those meetings the more often you go. The more they see you the more they will trust you the more they will talk to you. This can actually help keep you from getting mentally and emotionally emotionally exhausted as you’re looking for work not because the effort in going to these meetings doesn’t exhaust you can if you go to enough of them. It’s the meeting the interesting people who are talking about things other than what you just did today the menial. Menial tasks that you went through.

10:01 – 15:04

They’re not gonNA ask about that. It gives you something other than the things. You don’t like to talk about and it’s going to help you through. This often happens. When you have a new leader? There’s a new focus and some new cultural components that cut her and I found that often a lot of this loving feeling comes from the fact that there’s not alignment between it is the way right the philosophies and the ethics. This is then a great opportunity for you to document again Dan here. I am documenting. Maybe that’s in your own personal notebook in evernote a one note I send yourself any I send myself emails to send yourself an email to your private email address. Just start documenting all the things that you like about the culture you want to be in and and sometimes when that’s missing that’s when you figure it out and as you’re documenting this document the things that make you procrastinator or document your reasons for not doing things because if you can look at those objectively you can also look at the ones that are really legitimate and those that aren’t and get rid of the ones that aren’t so for example if really the reason why not moving forward in my job searches because I’m not committed to it. I can own that but sometimes does it takes that kind of documentation to see it. You have to make a commitment to yourself to do more and documented it will help you not only with processing but it’s also going to help you identify potential opportunities shore. It’s also GONNA help you. Hey what should I put on my resume. How should I modify Lincoln? See the thing is the little steps you take during the process isn’t going to be a big process when you decide to leave their or get laid off or get fired <hes> because you’re not performing well because you’ve lost that loving feeling and it’s impacting your performance. We talked about resentment and how that begins. Does it begin before things get boring or whatever it is or do they happen because while I think that’s going to depend on the person if you are taking a proactive approach to make sure that your networking is happening that you’re looking at the things that you enjoy that you’re documenting ways to actually keep your focus on what works and what’s going to move forward. The resentment generally doesn’t come up quite so much now. There will be moments especially if it’s one of those things where I put in so much time and energy and I’m not paid when I need to survive. That’s going to be a different conversation. If we’re talking about aligning what we’re doing with what we want to do and make sure toward the attention is on the positives were far more likely to have positive outcomes and the reason that that resentment can overwhelm you is when you feel like you don’t have control when we take control of something as simple as meaning a person outside the company or hang having a coffee with an old colleague or then we’re in control of something. That’s a really that we’re taking a positive step constructively to build something better for ourselves and part of that is maybe changing our mindset <hes> and and having some goals when we go through a career transition and we ended up at the new place where like yeah I made it and then we stop we stop dreaming or planning the next thing or or mapping it out. We start over again <unk>. I tell people all the time it’s okay to arrest. It’s okay. Don’t stay there. Don’t stop entirely. Take a breath. Take a week. Take a month whatever it is but make commitment to yourself to get back in the networking game name. You can change what you’re working for so for example. If I was never came to find a job I find a job now. I want to network inside my company one to find out what really happens not just what they told me during the interview process. How do things really happen on the inside? What is it take to be happy and successful in the company? The sooner you learn that the easier it is to navigate as your career bills within that organization if you wait until until it happens to you you’re probably going to find out too late but these are always you can make sure that you continue in your alignment that your mindset is what you need it to be and to course correct earlier in the process rather than wait and react because generally you you have less to work with if you’re finding out after the fact plan your next three to five years. Even if you decide that in three to five years I wanna be retired that could be an outcome great or in three three to five years. I want to move from senior manager to Director Plan something and talked to supervisors not necessarily yours unless that you’ve got that good of a relationship but make sure that you’re getting advice from someone higher higher up in the company that can help you navigate that because that’s not into whether it’s a mentor or just a political ally. These are things that are going to help you but it’s going to keep your mindset open now for those who don’t have. Have work or really feel stuck in their job.

15:04 – 20:05

<hes> changing the mindset I I had done this personally where I actually on my way to work in the morning. I noticed that I was getting of angry. Really I was working for very difficult person. She was not at all supportive. The the way she defined success was whether you were sitting at your desk but she never gave feedback positive or negative really about the work that I did or anything and it was incredibly frustrating. So I was getting angry. I started thinking one morning about because I just bought a lottery ticket. What would I do if I won the lottery and of course there were one hundred million something hundreds it’s of millions of dollars at stake great and I knew I was going to win the lottery? Then I had the ticket. What would I do with that money and what I discovered was? I actually felt better. It improved my mood so from then on but if ever I started feeling down about the work that I was doing or the the the people that I was working with her for I think about what I would do if I won the lottery. Where would that money go? Who could I be helping? Why could I be doing that would be fun and interesting and not only does that? Give me out of the doldrums but it also puts me back in alignment with what are my values. What are my goals whether the things that I enjoy doing it opens your mind and take that perspective even if you let’s say you went from senior manager to Director Great? was that the end or as V._p.. Next do you WANNA use more of your time energy in dollars in philanthropy whatever that is have something that you’re pursuing because that gives you a sense of purpose and a sense of control that here I have something that I’m working on the project and that three to five year plan whatever that is for you have something out there. That’s really driving you. I come back to the idea of Oh. I hate that interview question about what where do you see yourself in five years. I think that’s a good question alive and Kickin Yeah. You know what I’m saying yeah. If you have a goal for yourself you see yourself in the future and you can articulate that to other people. They’re far more likely to follow you or or to put you in a leadership position. If if that’s not what you WANNA. Do you want to be the worker bee. That’s fine. That’s great. What does that look like for you? What drives you what are your motivations? Whether the things that allying with your values that actually help you find the work that you want to do these are things we need to be able to communicate and when you document those you need no what they are in. You’re able to communicate those two people. It’s funny what happens there. You know what could happen is. Hey somebody notices you at work and sees you have that skill and they want you to use it more. Wow I’m in. I’m now an advocate for my own inspired future. It could be somebody outside. The organization saw you at an industry event and they invite you in for an interview right these happen. These things happen yeah. Get out there. Do the things that you love doing doing be sure you know what you love doing right out that love it low the list or journal whatever works for you document the things that you’re doing make sure that you’re taking an active approach to having a positive positive open mindset. I think you’re going to have a better time of your work. If you have lost that feeling in the advice I would have is blocked time every day for yourself for your career for something. It doesn’t have to be a lot got thirty minutes a day. What’s thirty minutes a day? You probably waste more time on facebook than thirty minutes a day and this is going to have a bigger return on investment than that inver sure and so that would be the first thing block off that time for for yourself and the other thing is make sure you know what’s next for you. What is next for you well? That’ll do it for this episode of Job Seekers Radio Way would invite you to go to job seekers radio DOT COM forward slash zero five four and get those show notes. There’s a whole bunch of information there. That’s going to help you also there. We have a free resource download the anatomy of networking conversation it’s Johnnie Book that Andrew and I put together just for you and I can’t think of a resource more important to finding that loving feeling again then the anatomy of a networking conversation. It’s going to help you through the step by step on how to make that a reality for you you we thank you again for joining us for this episode of Job Seekers Radio Scott Ni- both appreciate your investment of time and attentions greatly appreciated head on over to itunes in fact that linked is right there on your phone in the show notes. Go Go ahead and subscribe to get future episodes and while you’re there would you please rate in review. This podcast really be a valuable feedback for us to know that we’re on track or if there’s any topics that you want us to cover that we haven’t covered it already right in that review of their questions that you have or issues that you want us to talk about.

20:05 – 20:14

Let us know that too. We really enjoy addressing the needs of our listeners. We want to hear from you well. This is Andrew and I’m Scott until next time.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Scott and Andrew discuss the pitfalls the come with having and maintaining a presence on LinkedIn. To provide a better experience to you, remember the..

The 9 Things You Should Never Do On LinkedIn

1. Have a Blank Profile Photo, or Hide Your Photo.
2. Have a Cheesy Head Shot, Selfie, or Cropped Wedding Photo.
3. A Headline That Says “Seeking Opportunities”
4. Empty Sections and No Content Under Experiences.
5. Reaching Out To People for Connection Without Telling them Why or What for.
6. Make your connections non-searchable.
7. Post things way outside the purpose of your brand and presence on the platform.
8. Ghost your connections – it’s rude.
9. Think you know LinkedIn better than someone else.

Resources (including affiliate links)

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation [E-Book]
Connection Settings for Privacy  

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

0:00 – 05:03

Welcome to job seekers radio. I’m Andrew Scott this production this podcast. This radio show is meant to provide you meaningful support to find great careers faster and that’s whether you’re working or not today on job seekers radio we talk about the nine things you should never do on Linkedin we have touched on this subject before but we wanted to go through a few do things just to be really clear. There are probably as many experts on how to use LinkedIn as there are users of LinkedIn we have found that there are some patterns that work and some that don’t and so we want to just help people to understand some of the things that may not land the way you think they do. If you WANNA use them especially. If you want to get the most out of the platform grass possible we all know in some cases is what to do but we don’t know sometimes what not to do and the first thing not to do is don’t not have a profile photograph. It is vital to have a photograph and I say that because part of getting you onto the search engine optimization for lack of a better term I can’t think of the terminology algorithms but yet to be to get onto people researches. You have to have a complete profile so all of the different sections are filled out that includes your photograph. Don’t make the mistake of thinking you’re going to be. You know maybe maintaining your anonymity if you want to be you’re not discriminate my age or my ethnicity or my get. What do I do get a good photograph and put that on because that’s part of the networking program that they offer they want this to be as complete a picture of you as possible and so your photograph is important it also relates to consistency sometimes they say integrity and people think I’m challenging their their ethics but integrity means that you’re the person on LinkedIn that shows up to the interview that there’s no surprises there so it’s not some glamour shot from nineteen eighty to well and that actually brings us to our second point and that is don’t use poor four photograph a cheesy pick like the selfie nineteen eighty well? If if you’ve got really long arms were that nineteen eighty two glamour shot is probably not the one you want to use. You want to look like the photograph okay so if it’s a really old photo I generally tell people don’t use anything that’s more than five years old and preferably no more than two that also means that some people find it more challenging to have a professional headshot taken. I totally only get that because not everybody can afford that. That’s where the self as come in the picky about the photo that goes on don’t please don’t use wedding photos or photos from the beach or yeah where your your gut your arm around your body and your personal please don’t do that. It doesn’t matter how flattering that photograph is. It’s really distracting to see who did he cut out have a headshot taken. It does not have to be a studio portrait. If you can afford that that’s great. It certainly isn’t your your facebook photo either. Although it can be if you keep it professional if you have a parental also right is also not not a modified filtered shot from snapchat or instagram yes so we’re seeing what we’re seeing. Scott is a younger generation has now gone through college. They’re looking for a professional career and Lo and behold they have the little fairy ears on their head shot with the little stars and and the smooth face right you thrice shelters or the ones well they probably wouldn’t add the cat or dog face the the idea is have a professional shot. It’s important that you’re giving the right message in the photograph and one that aligns with your experience and the kind of work that you do now for example if you have a really good photo of you in at you work in a hospital and you’re in your scrubs and you have the photo is taken in the environment in which you work. That’s okay make sure that the background isn’t sent distracting. I find a lot of photographs on social media in general not just linked in where they haven’t considered what they’re standing in front of and the background becomes distracting. My attention is pulled to what’s going on behind you. You really important that you pay attention to these things.

05:03 – 10:04

The easiest thing to do is to hand your phone to a friend and go actually go outside during a good a nice day because the natural light outdoors as long as it’s not too overbearing <music> natural light is always better. The indoor photos tend to be yellow and depending on the lighting showroom staying the cognizant of the quality of the picture that you’re taking and the quality of the picture that you’re you’re putting up there and it needs to look like you you better to have one than not have one yeah better to have one. That’s professional than one. That’s right so the third thing I see a lot that you should not be putting on your linked in profile is seeking opportunities or looking for my next great employment demint job or whatever that right. It’s all well and good to be looking for a job. We’ve all been there. It’s going to happen to all of us at some point. The Way to mention that is to show in your latest job that there was an end date. Trust me we get it if you are looking to fill that where you used to have your job title put your job title. Put the title of the job that you are looking for. It can be more general if you you are a specialist in something very much in a niche market. That’s fine just make that title more general in the right industry or in the right field they call that section the headline align the headline. Is that hundred twenty characters. That’s right under your name in your head shot and that is customizable. It doesn’t have to be your most recent role under experience. It can be your branding statement. It could be pieces of your branding. The statement could be a target job. Title could be areas of expertise. We know it is keyword driven when it does land certain amount of weight to the Algorithm so make sure the headline that hundred twenty characters has a target job. Subtitle and some key words a little bit of branding at the end so the next one empty content spaces this comes back to whether or not you’re you’re linked in profile is going to get optimize in show up on people’s searches when you have the about out section or some of the other sections when you leave them blank it means that there are fewer ways for other people to find your profile and so we do highly recommend that you fill out all of the different sections in in some fashion especially experience the most recent role under experience the about us said about me section. They just changed it recently so just to be the summary. All we can say is linked probably GONNA change by the time this episode hits the error you listen to it right. It’s possible so just know it’s going to change but just give as much information as you can without it being repetitive without giving away personal information without straying too do things that don’t really relate to the work that you do try to have something in all the sections so that people can find you. Just make it easy to read. That’s the idea and the experience section is kind of limiting that way currently it’s only showing for the first roll inexperience eight eight lines of text even though you can put fifteen hundred characters and they’re sure but then they they have to click through to read more put the important stuff up front and I would encourage you if they’re giving you fifteen hundred characters us most of that just make sure you front load the section with the important stuff like Zach mansion the so the fifth thing not to do on linked in is reach out to people you don’t know without telling them why or what for I I get a lot of those connection requests where all they’ve done is to click on that the section where it says connect and you do it and then sends it. It doesn’t give you the opportunity to give a message. If you see someone that is interesting you think you want to connect go to their profile file and then when you click to connect their it gives you an opportunity to write a message to that person always give them a reason why you’re contacting them because when I get them without if I don’t immediately immediately see how we could mutually benefit one another in networking. I don’t connect. They’re going to evaluate you based on your profile. Whether you have a message or not they’re gonNA evaluate you based on that. That’s the first thing the second thing is Langston is not very good about telling you where they have connect button and it automatically sends and where it doesn’t and that’s even true on the mobile device especially true on on their own for if I it’s like candy crush you’re you’re just hit sitting there hitting the button yeah and not a good idea and even if you go to the profile page on the mobile device and click connect it automatically set us. That’s so if you’re on the mobile device click the three dots. You’ll see what I’m talking about out and then it’ll say send a personalized to request it even uses different language.

10:05 – 15:06

Go figure always send a message telling them why you want to connect personal thing. I do get an occasional message where they say I want to connect because I think que- can benefit one another. You know there’s a mutual benefit here really tell me what you think that benefit is just the generic oh we can help. Each other doesn’t convince me but what I really like. Is I found your profile on LinkedIn. Let’s connect yeah yeah well. You’re on linked myself that made sense to give them a reason. Why are the sixth thing not to do on lengthen which is a no no is make your connections non searchable yeah? What’s the point in that you can you can ratchet down? The security features where people can’t see your connections. That’s the point of linked him is to help people make connection but Scott there mike connections so that’s great so yeah. I don’t know that I would want to connect with you if you if you’re that secretive it is maybe you don’t have any connections at all well. It says five hundred plus yeah whatever quite frankly I think the point of LinkedIn is to show a value that the connections that I have may actually benefit other people and I would hope that the reverse could be true as well. I’m telling you when someone connects with me and it’s obvious that they’re just minding my mic connections but I can’t see there’s I’ve probably not going to stay connected that person because I don’t I don’t understand stand what the value proposition is. There isn’t one right at least not for you exactly don’t do that police and if you have done that you know go to the LinkedIn help section to figure out how to fix it and look at this the privacy settings and make sure you have them set up right right so that you’re not doing that. Millington is really good on helping people with that their help section is actually one of the best ones I’ve looked at. I’ve been through a lot of help. Sections on facebook can’t find anything linked in is actually really really good about educating their users on how to use the platform effectively and if that doesn’t work for you find someone in your area who can actually walk you through it. It’s worth it. You won’t forget how to use it. If you learn to use it well the first time totally worth it. The seventh thing to not do on LinkedIn is postings outside your purpose of being there in alignment with your brand or your presence or your purpose right. We I mentioned it before in terms of you know. If you WANNA be a Jack of all trades and you want to send that message that you can do many things really really well. That’s fine but that’s going to limit the number of people who will connect with you in a meaningful fashion because it’s confusing if I’m looking for someone who has a job progression to show that they had the experience the ability to manage other people and the broader sense of strategic thinking to the job that I’m looking for and your resume is showing that you do a whole bunch of different things that don’t actually matter. I’m not going to consider good. I’m not going to pay attention to that because I’m looking for that that LINEAR thought right by having all these other things out there. You’re mixing your message and I’m not sure what you WANNA do be consistent. Have your profile send a message Ch- have everything you post send the same message right have every interaction on groups. Send the same message and this is what we’re talking about with aligning your brand. You have a brand whether you market yourself well or not the message that you send out there. What your abilities your skills your knowledge value you bring to an organization or to a project that is your personal brand and so if you have everything in your profile allying with aligning leaning with that brand then you’re sending a consistent message by putting the kitchen sink in your linked profile you’re making that less clear posting videos of cats yet floors anything that you would put on facebook unless you’re a cat herder or or a cat person or a veterinarian right yeah? You’re working in. You’re you’re not working in the field or aligning your brand link and may be considered social media but it is targeted. It’s not like facebook and. Pinterest end and instagram where it’s just showing people what you’re doing. What you’re eating? Please don’t do that. The eighth thing not to do on. LinkedIn is do not ghost people yeah. How many times have we we connected with someone they get? The message had like to connect with you. You look interesting so I clicked. Yes I send a message. I always send a message to somebody when they connect with me. How can I help you is my question then when they don’t answer her it makes me wonder? Why did you just connect with me? Of course I’m going to think that you’re just here to get my contact list. Okay that’s understandable but if you’re not adding any value to my world to my network work why would I maintain that connection and at after the second message if you haven’t responded I will disconnect.

15:06 – 20:01

It’s not like a card game war right where you’re trying to get all the cards I mean there’s no value in collecting more connections yeah why not not offering anything people validate themselves on who I have X. number of connections okay. I suppose there’s some value in that but not to the people you’re trying to connect to well you can do that and engage sure is not like your you know it’s not like people are beating down down your door every five minutes right wanting to get a connection if you can now with someone and they reach out to you always respond ghosting as rude LinkedIn does not do a very good job with a message platform that messaging on mobile device you know when you get a message from somebody on LinkedIn. It sends an email saying you’ve got a message yeah. It doesn’t actually give you the message used to there. I’m sure they’re doing that to drive. Traffic back to their platform was for paid service well. There’s lots the reasons the idea of ensuring that you are engaging in conversation isn’t that the purpose of LinkedIn to to network to communicate back and forth if you’re going to connect with people be willing to have those conversations nations. Don’t be so selfish that you if somebody asks for help that you’re not willing to offer assistance yeah. That’s the other thing I I find it interesting. Everybody has their own reason but I know someone who is not willing to connect with anyone. They can’t meet with in person and I respect that. I don’t think that everybody in my neighborhood is the extent of who I could be helpful to or I never know when I might need to reach out somebody they beyond my neighborhood and so if if you’re limiting this to only people that you can meet and have a one on one conversation to okay understand that you are limiting your own ability to us now to use LinkedIn to its fullest degree great. Don’t goes people if some incense you message. Please respond. I know hard. It is to manage messages in there. I probably send a good an end. This is probably saying something I probably sent forty connection requests today and so it’s it’s not also so the nature of your work right but it’s not uncommon that there’s things that get lost in that message string to you’re going to lose things. I don’t suspect that that’s most people know but I also if I expect to have a real back in fourth conversation with someone I give them my email address or my phone number and I have the conversation outside of LinkedIn there you go so you don’t have to be face to face you can always have a phone conversation yeah and that you know it when it comes to any kind of professional relationship it’s likely to happen. Happen on the phone I anyway. This is all part of what does it mean to communicate on a business level. I don’t think that text messages and emails are truly the only way we’re going to communicate in the future and I’ve had this conversation with with people about technology taking over because those who are coming into the job world had never known a world without technology without a smartphones and tablets. Didn’t you get my email and I totally grant that human connection is always going to be needed by human beings how the tools we use to make that connection may change still having that interpersonal conversation is it’s got to get beyond the written word because only three three percent of what we communicate is the word choice. Most of our more than half of our communication happens in body language. Now you might be able to hear somebody language over the phone. Really tone of voice is it was something less than half forty something percent <hes> fifty five percent. I think is in body language and just three percent is in the word choice so please don’t not talk to somebody who asks asks to connect it. In fact I recommend people insist on that brings us to the ninth and final somewhat ironic thing not to do on LinkedIn is think you know LinkedIn better than someone else yeah so eh saying we’re telling people what not to do on LinkedIn Yeah and here we are saying. Don’t don’t think you know LinkedIn better than somebody else. You know. The reason why I’m confident with this podcast is because we are not the only one saying these nine things days. We may have put it together this way in a unique fashion or set it in a slightly different way and we hope so because every time you hear something and and you hear slightly differently it means that you’re probably going to is is going to resonate differently if we can reach those people who have heard the message not really understood it but now they do so much the better. This is not news right. We’re not this not a breaking story. We probably know LinkedIn better than many because we’re in it so much.

20:02 – 21:30

They’re going to be things that we don’t know all of it but I will say that when I talked to somebody who starts to talk to me as if I don’t know LinkedIn at all it’s rather off pudding well so it’s a reminder right. It’s a reminder minder to me and the reason we put it in here as we’re telling ourselves. Hey you know this is an opportunity for me to have a little humble pie sure and also for those who don’t know linked in as well to help educate them and that’s why we even do this podcast in the first place right so we we hope we’ve been helpful here. We like LinkedIn. Obviously we use it all the time. I think it’s a valuable platform and tool. I also tell people don’t take everything too seriously that does it for this episode of Job Seekers Radio you can find all the show notes in resources that job seekers radio DOT COM forward slash zero five three now. We also want to call attention to a free resource that we have. You’ll see it there on the page. It’s the anatomy of a networking conversation a little e-p-o-c-h that Andrew Nye put together. We help you download and use it. You’ll you’ll find it to be helpful. Your investment of time and attention is greatly appreciated head over to itunes. There’s a little link there in the show notes to do that and subscribe to get future episodes while you’re there go ahead and provide a rate in review so we know what we can do better or maybe a topic. We haven’t covered that yet that you would like. She get our perspective on your way. We love answering your.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Authenticity is a characteristic that can often go out the window when looking for work. In the harried and eager interest to meet the employer’s needs and expectations, the job seeker can lose themselves. 

Andrew and Scott share strategies and tactics on how to be genuine and stand up for the strengths that job seekers bring to a role.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Being “you” in a job search focused on your strengths.
• Mindset of truth to yourself over pretending to be something you aren’t.
• Balancing financial needs and job satisfaction.
• Holding desperation at arms length.
• Complete assessments to get more clarity and access a professional to help you identify your strengths.
• Increasing the satisfaction in your job.
• Nothing Lasts Forever.
• Stand up for your strengths in the interview.
• Reinvent yourself to something you want.
• Consider a vanity project that makes you feel good.

Resources (including affiliate links)

StrengthsFinder 2.0What Color is Your Parachute
Toastmasters for Better Communication 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:02 – 00:05:01

welcome to job seekers radio. I’m Andrew and I’m Scott. This production is meant to provide you the listener meaningful support to find great careers. Faster whether you’re working or not. Today’s episode is brought to you by the anatomy of a networking conversation. It’s an e book and a free resource that you can download at Jobseeker’s radio DOT COM in today’s show. We’re talking about the art of being you in job. Search one of my favorite phrases that A colleague of mine says to me all the time. Is You be you? I’m sure most of us have heard that phrase did that come with the snap. No he he means it really very sincerely you can snap yes. Of course. He’s he really means it. He wants people to be as authentic as possible. Because it’s in learning. Who People really are that. We can then leverage their strengths. And that’s one of his themes in his career is to to work with your strengths. When you’re looking for something better at in a job search of any kind often feel like you have to change who you are to meet somebody else’s expectation you have to Discount your strength. Sometimes because you feel like they may not be valid. And that’s often what happens in people that I work with have been laid off from somewhere. They felt like they’ve been rejected. They’re going into a situation. Where Jeez the stuff that I did must not be valuable so I need to reinvent myself and that might be true. You may want to reinvent yourself but if that’s your choice great it may be but it isn’t necessarily the truth and there’s that element of well if this didn’t work anymore then now. I have to fake it and and we hear this all the time. Fake it till you make it well that works but is it really sending the messages. You want to send if the message doesn’t matter and you’re faking it because you are learning how to do it better. That’s definitely add approach can take. I don’t discount that at all to your point if I suddenly feel like I have to change who I am in order to now be acceptable. That kind of faking. It is probably going to either backfire on you or it’s not going to work at all people that are looking at indeed dot com or the job postings at a company They look at that job posting. Oh I can do that. I can do that. I can do this too and look at all these things that they can do without. I saying Is that really what I want to do? I really want to do that. Because if we look at everything based on just a capability model where we’re checking all the boxes. We may end up. Disatisfied I don’t know that that’s a natural approach you know not to mention there’s opportunities where you know what? I can’t do that and I should probably take that job because I don’t have a choice. If you don’t have the ability or capacity financially or otherwise to say no yeah that that may be something to consider and don’t discount the validity of that situation for those who are in it because if you’re really feeling desperate because you’re out of money or you’re going to lose your home or whatever that that is those are very real concerns and I don’t want people to feel like we’re discounting that in in any fashion. There is still the sense of doing the things that bring you something that brings some enjoyment that keep you going and often those who are associated with our strengths. As we’re looking at that we we think about ourselves. What is it that I’m good at going through that list? Oh Yeah I could do all these things. Would I enjoy doing them? In this scenario if there are things from my past what I enjoy doing them again bringing those skills back to the four answer is yes then by all means you know. Apply talk to them about that if you can get the interview. That’s great if the answer is I would go back to do those things because I’m starting to feel desperate okay. There’s a different approach that I would recommend than simply applying and trying to be somebody that you no longer are because that will be detrimental to you in the long run. Not Everybody is one hundred percent clear on their strengths or even what they look like or even how to communicate that to other people. We always recommend you look at some assessments but you can do a self reflective exercise just to remember the things that you enjoy you bring up a really good point is something that I want to suggest to our listeners. If you’re going to do one of these assessments and I’m thinking for example strengths finder. It’s one that I’ve used like it. It uncovers where an individual’s strengths may be.

00:05:02 – 00:10:07

It’s providing suggestions and I really liked to set up a that. This book offers however getting the Book and getting it the report and just applying what it says about US specifically from the assessment in the book probably not enough I would recommend seeking out someone who is either certified as a trainer in that assessment or at least somebody with a lot of experience in using it in the workplace to get a bigger perspective other than what you’ve just glean from reading a book because it is going to be a little bit different for you than it was for the author so exactly what is written in the report or in the book is going to need to be more a little bit for it to be truly effective for you so I would recommend talking to those of us who are trained in. This can help you find the way to adapt it looking at things that whether it’s one of those assessments or other activities that bring you energy that that really give you a morale boost. It is vital. You’re doing these things so that you don’t wear yourself into the ground and then wonder why you don’t have any energy the morale come from remembering that you did something you did it. Well guess what you probably got paid too and so it’s having those three components thinking. Yeah I did the thing. I enjoyed it and they paid me to do that. It was crazy and it may not have been one hundred percent of your job. But how do you increase the percentage of that in your in your work well and we just had the conversation about things? Not Being Permanent. You know. Your unemployment situation isn’t going to last forever. Your poor employment situation is going to last forever. You’re really good. Employment Situation isn’t going to last forever. The idea then is if you’re continuing to do things that bring you energy. You’re going to keep those strengths sharp. Hopefully you’re always working on projects to keep your skill set at the cutting edge however you wanted to define it up to date if you are in a situation where you have done these things and you did them really well and it felt really good. If your unemployment situation isn’t going to last forever please keep doing the things you love doing because people will see that and hopefully hire you to do it again. It also would directly relate to your capacity to be resilient search. If you’re seeking all the things that you enjoy and are good. At and often we see people fall down the networking or even doing the applications or or even. Their interview is so jaded because they’re looking at all these things that they can do. And that’s what the job requires but they’re not inspired by it Enthused to go into that situation Going to impact your your capability or you’re at least your ability to present yourself positively in the marketplace. The reason we encourage you to take a look at these things you’ve done that you enjoy is because that becomes part of who you are and that’s what you’d present to people and when you do the interesting thing is people can feel it. It feels different when you present that to some sure. So look at those strengths. Lean into those strengths and communicate those strengths because often. That’s what people want. There’s also we’ve talked about this to the idea that when you’re talking about something that brings you passionate results right that you’re really excited about the do. Well you speak differently. You come alive you light up. Whatever phrase the person may use they are now seeing you in your best light that gives you the impression of confidence and that is what attracts people to you. I I think about the conversations. People have whether it’s a political presentation you’re at some conference or whatever and somebody gets up to speak whatever that may be a rally it’s true on the corporate side as well when someone gets up to speak and they have that sense of being alive and passionate about what they’re talking about and they are confident people are drawn to that. So if you’re working on things that bring you that kind of energy and people are seeing you talking about it and they need something along those lines. You’re far more likely to get the next conversation if you want to reinvent yourself. That’s great I think that that can be very healthy. It can be very rewarding. Don’t feel you have to in order to be somebody that you’re not because that disconnect is actually going to be visible as well. You’re not going to have the same sense of confidence or the same sense of of getting lit up by. You’re going to come across differently and it’s really easy to forget that you did those things and it was fun. It was positive. Sometimes you feel like you don’t have permission to feel that way and if you’ve been in job search long enough and taken enough you know knocks to the Chin you know You know you start thinking okay.

00:10:07 – 00:15:13

Well jeeze maybe I should do is just put in applications. There’s no sense to this. Whole thing anyways. Why should I care? Well you don’t care. Why should anybody else? That’s so you should really not lean that Reggia in remembering and re presenting and taking a look at those successes over and over again and then when you go to interview. Stand up for yourself advocate for this thing that you enjoy doing and often if they need that thing. They’re going to hire you to do it absolutely for those of our listeners. Who are really feeling down that they just are to beat up to make that kind of progress her to to stand up for themselves. I implore you to talk to people who will then help build you back up because you do bring value to the table. Your perspective is unique and someone needs now that sounds like a platitude but there is truth to that and if you need to go to the show notes to find out how to contact. Us contact us. We will help you with that. Because we know the value that unique perspectives bring to the workplace? And you just haven’t found it yet that that’s not uncommon. Many people are there but it also brings a bit of accountability back to you. Decide what you want what you want to do. Andrew you and I were talking about the the idea of a vanity project and some things that I’m currently working on. Are these really just vanity projects that make me feel good? What if they are they make me feel good? It’s worth doing even though I haven’t had necessarily the outcome of landing the next client in whom that ability or that activity may be part of what they do. I’m I’m really charged up because as I work on this it’s starting conversations with other people who are of a like mind who are looking for the same kinds of results and now this feels good so it keeps me going. This is what happens in job. Search the longer it takes to find the right job the more you need these things that bring you that sense of joy and that’s why we talk about always have a project in mind right something. It gives you something to talk about other than I’m looking for a job and really. The focused objective should have a number of components in is not all inclusive. But I would definitely be saying. This is the kind of work I want to do. This is the kind of organization I WANNA be in and then put name on that so for example I just need a Job. Is any focused objective. No it’s a generality at best sure and so be more specific. I’d love to be a director of learning and development for sportswear manufacturer in Portland Oregon. Well I wonder how. Many of those could bio as a matter of fact a handful. There’s a of those Barlett. Where at the idea is okay now? Now that doesn’t mean that the objective can’t change. Of course it probably will but make sure you have something. That’s very focused until you pull on that thread long enough and hard enough and if there’s something at the end of it great Poland another thread you bring up a good point because I remember when I was in school. I wanted to go in a specific direction and I know this is true. A lot of people the deeper you get into it the more you realize that it’s not really a good fit if I forced myself to keep going. I’m not sure I would have been happy and I. My own daughter did the same sort of thing when she was going through school. She was working on her master’s degree thinking. She wanted to go into occupational therapy. She interned with an not and decided. This isn’t really the workout wanted to do. And then she got into the kind of work that she is absolutely passionate about and his wildly successful ad. She had a focused objective of what she wanted to but she was willing to change that focus to better suit her own style and strengths and she knocked it out of the partners. She learned. Yeah what she did is she tried on that pair of shoes. Whatever you WANNA call as your There’s don’t feel so good. Yeah right or they’re too tight or there’s a there’s not enough arch support whatever that looks like rates. Trying another pair of shoes. Yeah it’s okay you don’t have to have it all figured out. It’s just really helps. If you have a a focused objective c know what direction to go to pull on that thread until there’s nothing there Learn more about yourself and not uncommon that you go through this process and you identify all these strengths. But you really don’t know how to effectively communicate that to the outside right if you haven’t decided what you WanNa do in the first place. It’s going to be very difficult to communicate to other people what you can do for them. Even if the job you’re applying for isn’t exactly the way you have described what you want to do if it still hanging all the right things ringing all your bells okay.

00:15:14 – 00:20:06

How do you communicate that effectively and concisely to let people know what your focused objective is and how you perceive your ability to do these things again to have the confidence in that conversation? Because you’re not just reiterating your resume right. You’re not regurgitating something else and you’re not trying to be somebody you’re not you’re really coming back to all of the research and trying on that you have done. You are now being authentic. There is a an element of integrity. That people are really reading in You. This is I think the best way to approach your job search from the beginning and that can influence all of your marketing tools like Lincoln and resume even your branding statement introduction to people We encourage everybody to kind of steer away from a title at company which yes might be your objective. But it’s not something I would share in a brand new statement per se other than as a closing out item to get introductions other and we talk about that in the anatomy of a networking conversation e book which is a free download. By the way for everyone listening you can just go to job. Seekers. Radio DOT COM. You put in your email will email you a free. E Book couldn’t get any better than free of but the idea is if it’s not uncommon that even if you know your strengths is really hard to communicate them effectively and consistently right That’s where you might lean into a coach a job search buddy a mentor the local career center at Your Community College. Whatever is available to you I would lean into that so that you can get a better feel for how to communicate. Even toastmasters would place. Yeah to test your messages so that you can take what’s inside and get outside. There are all sorts of resources available. That either don’t have any cost at all or have minimal costs that are still worth the investment. You make a point though that I wanNa make sure we touch on. And that is you’ve got to stand up for yourself and you have to stand up for something. People have to want to follow what you’re talking about on some level now. That doesn’t mean that you have to get political or you have to stand up against anything. It’s really about knowing what you bring to the table. Understanding what those strengths are and what you want to do with them and assert of a sense that this is what. I’m going for because now people will be more likely to listen to what you think you’re going to do when you get there. And does that align with what they’re looking for and are you flexible in that to maybe bring that attitude or approach into the work that they have that they’re looking to hire and may be more that with you? Your your your strength is Is Your calling card. It’s it’s your competitive advantage. Yeah you WANNA be something to somebody rather than all things to all people when you stand up for yourself that might be based on whatever philosophies you have. If you’re a leader you should probably have a set of philosophies that you bring to the table. What are those philosophies? Khazei vary is many as there are stars in the sky. There’s leaders have different philosophies and you need to practice communicating bat. You may know what your philosophies are. But if you can’t communicate that concisely it’s not going to come across as effectively so I would recommend practice those statements. And what is the difference between a leader and a manager? I mean we go into all these different things but the idea is. If you’re not standing for something then you might as well stand for nothing. And that’s you kind of putting your own spin on what you bring to the table to that role at the interview so five in an interview. I’m not I’m not telling somebody here’s all the things I do to meet all the requirements that you have to identify where your strengths play in that role and say hey. This is what I bring to the table and you stick that up front and center in the interview and you stand on that now. That doesn’t mean that you’re telling them how they should be doing their work. And I’ve seen that happen tour. Where oh well you need to do this. And that and what they’re meaning is this is how I would approach it. But they actually say the words I. This just happened to me this just in the past week where someone was thinking. She was giving advice to she was talking to but instead yeah she was telling them. These are the things that you need to do. And these are the things that you need to avoid without taking into consideration that she was talking to people who had more experience doing these things than she had.

00:20:06 – 00:23:50

Be careful on on how you present that when you’re saying these are the things that I have to offer. And this is how I’ve offered in the past. These are some things I’d like to do a little differently. That’s a completely different conversation. I WanNa know more what we’re suggesting is if you go to an interview. Don’t prepare on how you can fit every single requirement. It’s that’s not a strategy. Well it is a strategy. But guess what is the strategy everybody’s using and if you don’t stand four yourself and your strengths right not what they wanna hear but what you have to offer in if it aligns with what they want. Then you’re at an advantage and if you have the sense to ask the questions early enough. What their pain points are and you can board that any way you like. But really one of their top priorities and filling this position. One of the first things that this position is going to be working on. You can actually tailor that conversation that because you know what you’re good at what where your strengths are and what you WANNA do. You can tailor your response to meet their needs as well as perhaps in the conversation uncover some needs. Maybe they don’t even know they have yet. What can I really can. I really talk about myself in that way. Wouldn’t that be you know kind of arrogant and self aggrandizing and won’t they think of kind of all about me? No that’s the purpose of the interview. Oh okay now how you come across it. It’s possible died tone of voice the way your messaging that it’s possible. That may come across that way so I would say practice with people who will give you candidate advice candid feedback on the way. You’re presenting Nancy. But with that said the interview. Is there for you to Your Own Horn? And if you’re the type that’s has oh. I don’t want to come across as being conceited and so I’m not GonNa talk about myself. That is the purpose of the interview. Be You when you go to the interview. Sometimes you try to mold yourself into what they want right so I need to change who I am at present myself in a way that attractive to all the things that they want to be like them rather than myself. What happens if you’re who you are and where your strengths are and how you can be passionate about this work? And suddenly they want to change what that job looks like because they like what they see. Wow were they really do that yes they do? Does that actually happen? Yes it does. It has actually happened for me. Well okay I’m in okay. Good so the idea here folks is. There’s only one you to just be you. You be you you be you. Thanks everybody we appreciate your time and attention here today. Everything that we’ve talked about you can read in the show notes are available at Jobseeker’s radio DOT COM forward slash zero seven nine. When you’re there we have a free resource and I like free. It’s called the anatomy of a networking conversation. It’s an e book that comes with companion audio really helps you is your networking conversations in a pragmatic way. That gets results. Also in the show notes as a link to itunes. You could just click there. If you’re on your little iphone right now and leave us a Rayton review. We’d really appreciate that it helps us. Spread the message about the podcast. While I’m Andrew and I’m Scott and in the words of Zig Ziglar Honesty and integrity are absolutely essential for success in life all areas of life. The really good news is that anyone can develop both honesty and integrity. Thanks everybody always tell the truth about you.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

12 THINGS TO NEVER PUT ON YOUR RESUME

1. Too Much Information.
2. Sensitive Personal Information.
3. Long Sentences Full of Buzz Words and Commas.
4. An Objective Section.
5. The Word “Summary” or Variation Thereof As A Section Header.
6. The Dates For Education.
7. More Experience Than The Company Is Asking For.
8. Pictures, Graphics, Emojis, Fancy Fonts, Watermarks.
9. An Embedded Cover Letter.
10. Redundant Usage Of Language and Information.
11. Abundance Of Acronyms.
12. Sidebars, tables, columns, bubbles.

Resources (including affiliate links)

Why You Can’t Get an Interview, By Dr. John Sullivan 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

0:00 – 05:14

Welcome to job seekers radio. I’m Andrew and I’m Scott. This production has meant to provide meaningful support to you to find great careers faster whether you’re working or not today on job seekers radio. We’re talking about the twelve things not to put on your resume. Resumes are great. They’re necessary. We we know we need to use them but I need to keep up with the times. we don’t use resumes quite the same way we did ten twenty thirty years ago so it’s important that we make sure that we are aware of what is currently not just acceptable but preferred so we wanna talk about a few things that maybe in the past some people have enjoyed using or doing to probably shouldn’t at this point and resumes. If you look at the history I think they’ve only been around since the nineteen sixties. It’s relatively new phenomenon in the world of work in the world of human existence right well of course mistake what I know there’s lots of change change in that time and there’s this new thing called the Internet and applicant tracking software and all these new players are on the scene that are insulating us from the ability to find work often. The things that we create to make things is easier also make things more complicated so we want to give some ideas on some things that maybe we’ve done in the past that we don’t want to do moving forward because we want to make sure that your resumes are the ones that get to the top of the list. We want you in the short pile not the round file exactly and the first thing the number one thing in my estimation and I came up with this list so Scott will just take some credit for I added a little a little bit. Okay is too much information. I can’t tell you how many resumes I’ve seen that are eight nine ten pages long and if you’re doing something outside of the sciences that’s probably overkill it is over even in the sciences depends on that whole thing right who’s even going to understand it. Well and I’m one that my coworkers will tell me all day long how wordy I am. I know that to help with that. I usually have someone else. Look look at my resume to help me edit it down because if I’m repeating things that I don’t really realize because I’m trying to get the story just right. Having a second set of is especially when you have a friend or colleague who look at that from your the opposite point of view somebody who only thinks or speaks bullet points is probably going to help you and it had down to the the the information you actually need. You may not be the type this really wordy in that case. He’s stretching the information to fit a pager to might be a challenge but this is for those people that are extra wordy or feel like me. They’re trying to overwhelm the audience. I’ve got to make sure I get every little detail exactly because it’s important that everybody knows everything that I can do. No it isn’t yeah the resume you look. It’s a French word and you know French did idea okay resume means summary. It’s a summary of your experience is not a catalog of everything when you’ve ever done right and that actually ties into another point we’ll be making later about how much time we put on it. The corollary to this that I’ve seen a lot is people say oh I’m going to fit this on one page in and they try to shoehorn to page resume onto one page and they do that by having a nine point font quarter inch margins and I’m you know I’m fifty now. I can’t believe it and I have trouble reading things that that small right. I have to grab my readers especially if you’re looking to get in with the company where the recruiter or hiring manager is actually reading the resumes themselves rather than an automated system. I’m going to pick up the resumes that I can read easily. I’m not going to spend a lot of time reading tiny tiny font or the really long resumes if I can get qualified candidates who can tell me concisely and in easy to read resumes what I’m looking for. We’re looking at an average of eight seconds version pass on a resume bright human being once you get to that spot. You need to make it very easy to consume right so if you’re if you’re going for an entry level position one page resumes probably adequate if you’re looking at a middle management to maybe through a director the two pages should be adequate because if you’re highlighting the skills along with the achievements or accomplishments rush months or or the tasks that you’ve you’ve been able to do you should be able to get that onto a couple of pages the caveat to that and there’s always an exception to the rule is if you’re looking executive level which would be maybe VP and

05:14 – 10:30

Above or you’re going into academia and they want to see your published works and maybe some patents or any research done you can have a page three that has that stuff on right so a woman get hired for the Executive Director Position Edition for the Women’s Center at a hospital and she had a fight patriotism that was appropriate for the position that she was going for plus not only was recruiter looking in a very specific way for that level. She had a head-hunter working for her to help facilitate those conversations so that’s a different kind of job search. What we’re talking about is for the average person don’t use small fund to fit more? You’re in and it down the amount of information and keep it most relevant to the company. You’re applying to I love the advice you gave before and that is used the resume that gets you the call get you the interviews right. If you find one that’s working us going yeah keep using and is you’re personalizing resumes. Maybe we should list that as its own idea always personalize your resume never send the same resume out all all the time and the reason I said that is because not every company is looking for exactly the same skill set even though the title may be exactly the same pay attention to the job description and then tailor it to it so if you have a master resume and you take out the things that don’t apply to that company. That’s going to help you edited down. Don’t spend a whole lot of time doing that but it does make a difference budget. Maybe fifteen twenty minutes customized the resume exactly I found people that try to optimize ineffective method end up going into mild depression and they don’t hear anything jerk. Just use the resume. That’s getting you the calls the second one is I’m and I’m going to say this kind of roughly. Don’t ever put any personal information on your resume. You’d like your address or anything. They could allow somebody to take over your identity for nefarious stock you yeah I generally give the advice. Use the information on your resume. Where they can get in touch with you generally speaking? They’re not going to send you a letter so you do not need to put your physical mailing address any of that your phone number and email and if you aren’t comfortable giving your home home phone number or your your cell phone number there are other ways to do that. You could use  Google voice so that you’re not giving your own phone number out but it connects to your phone you can then screen your calls. It depends on your org your comfort level with that that an email address and I also suggest putting your linked in profile a URL. On the resume but that’s really all you need. Just how do you get in touch with me. That’s the only information you need to put on it. Nothing else really matters so and government is really interesting. ’cause they’re always asking for more information than his reasonably necessary in an application process and be aware that your social media accounts will be scrutinized if they can get to them so be conscious of that. Don’t put your facebook URL On your resume unless it is your facebook page that talks about your career brings us to the third thing not not to put on your resume and that’s long sentences full of buzzwords and lots of commerce. Keep it simple I generally recommend don’t have more than two clauses and a single sentence. Keep it easily read bullet pointed needed if you can as part of that long sentences there’s some debate whether or not the narrative with the first person I did such and such is helpful if that works within your industry go for it but please is keep those sentences short simple succinct but generally I find most people will skim through a resume very quickly so bullet points help and make sure that the beginning of the sentences where the meat of it is the things that you actually did or the skills that you used one that we missed here. This probably a corollary to this is I believe that bullets should highlight something and one thing that I’ve seen a lot of people do as they bullet everything so everything on the resumes and bullets and it it leaves the reader thinking okay. What do they really highlighting is? Is it the first one or the third one or the tenth Washer you so they see a position and there’s like fifteen bullets thing about that. Though is high found most recruiters will read the first three you and then they move on to the next job so as your top three bullets aren’t the most important tasks or skills that you’re trying to highlight then move them up because it’s great to show death within your role and that’s where are those other bullet points may go but they’re probably not going to read them all so make sure the first ones that the most important that brings us to the next the number four thing not to put on your resume and that’s an objective we get the objective.

10:30 – 15:55

You’re looking for a job. You’re right to find a job in my domain for four this for the role that I’m applies a given when I see an objective what that’s telling me as either. You don’t really know what you’re doing your job search or it has been a long time since you’ve looked for work or it son resume you pulled off a free template off the Internet. That’s from one thousand nine hundred seventy yeah good point even nine hundred ninety the objective it is great if you are if you had no experience and you’re using a functional resume the objective is to move to the next part of my career. If you are like right out of college you have no real experience other than the academic learning then that would be the exception to the rule because you’re you’re putting it out there. You’re not experienced in this but this is your area of interest and you have some training and your objective is to move in that direction there are going to be certain Martin hiring managers who recruiters were looking for that but that puts you in a very small group so otherwise let your experience indicate the objective and that sort sort of leads then to the the the summary to there are times when people put a summary of what they can do. I don’t recommend that instead you can kill those two birds with one stone and that’s put the job title you are looking for. It gives people north star who is seeing I see a name and I see a title boom. I already know who you are in what you’re looking for and from there everything should support that job title from their perspective so if ear the type to put nine point font because you’re trying to get more in take out the objective in the summary. You’re probably going to gain some space. The yeah use white space. That’s that’s another caveat so that was actually one two three four five that I was number five no summer no summary Don’t use the word summary at the top of resumes instead use the job title on the posting or a target job title or domain right. I have seen a summary used to highlight skills used and if that’s the case I would go ahead and do that but under the title skills and that should come later in the resume or it could come under the summary. There’s an option there well. You’re doing a summary right but the summary worry would fall under the job title you just wouldn’t have right the word summary on the resume then you would have a summary statement even though it’s not called summary Right but here’s one of the tricks that you taught me and that is instead a summary do a branding statement in the personal branding statement because ultimately it is summarizing what what I offer that has a completely different feel and if you’re looking at applying for a job where they know anything about marketing they will actually appreciate that you show that you understand how you’re putting yourself out there and if I have to have to read twenty-five resumes and it’s like detail oriented project manager with expertise yeah and another one though Sarasin other thing with the buzz words yeah. Don’t don’t don’t use US words. I know we touched on that earlier but things like detail oriented or process driven or results driven even if you’re not result covering. I don’t want to hire you right because the whole point of having a job is to result in something right so we’re all results oriented to some degree. If we’re good employees we are detail oriented to the degree we need to be and if our skill set doesn’t allow for really focusing on the details. We probably shouldn’t be going for a job that needs that kind of detail assume that they know that you’re detail oriented because you actually put your resume together together. Well let the resume speak for itself exactly that brings us to the sixth thing not to put on the resume and that is dates for education. It’s completely irrelevant to your candidacy when you got your education is not the bar the the bar is do you have education and I hear people say well. That’s not necessarily true for Higher Ed for an academic role. I think it’s still applies to the extent that they are looking for your level of education as much. As when you had it now I understand that if if someone had an education in a very specific type of work that where they got their degree thirty years ago it’s probable that the work itself has evolved evolve over time but even with that having the right degree and showing thirty years of experience or at least ten years we’ll get to that second showing the years of experience where you are actually using this in modern ways ways that is a better message to send but if I say that I graduated from college in Nineteen Sixty four the hiring manager is going to make some assumptions on about my age and at the very least about about whether my skill set is modern it is not relevant if they insist on having the dates of your education on your application.

15:55 – 20:12

That’s different put it. They’re not on your resume. The only caveat encouraged people that are maybe just about two to three years out of college. They may have some experience and I think it’s it gives the reader at least what I read the resume. I feel like Oh okay. He doesn’t just have two years experience or three years experience. He just got out of college right now. I understand why yes and that might agree. Exactly what I’m looking for. Entry Level Persons got about two years experience not the person that’s got ten years experience trying to find something entry level because that’s a whole different for conversation ex. It’s all about point all about fit and brings us to number seven if you have more experienced than the company is asking for personalise or or modify that resume to match the experience that that they’re looking for again. The resume is to try to get their attention to make them feel compelled to contact you to interview you. It is not about going beyond what they need because that can actually shooting in the foot if they think that you’re overqualified to or that you would be bored right or too expensive or that’s another one too expensive. Oh well this person has so much experienced a probably one twice as much prices were willing to pay or able to pay often when I talked to hiring managers and recruiters about over qualified candidates their biggest fears that they won’t stay turnover is very very expensive and they want someone who can grow into a position. I’ve been in that situation where I was overqualified for job. I applied for so I had to be prepared to answer the question. Why do you want this job? We’re fighting it from the start yeah why give them ammunition. That’s how how I look at. It is if they’re asking for five years experience. Maybe give him seven right not fifteen as long as you’re showing job progression that would make sense you know maybe in the first two years you were at a lower level a position but then you moved up that would make sense and don’t make things up on your resume don’t lie. Maybe that’s another thing that we should add to. I didn’t think we had to talk about that. They’re still a persistent idea that everybody everybody inflates their their experience on the resume and there may be truth to it on a slate. I don’t recommend that I don’t do that so I don’t think about that I but I I generally tell people do not lie on your resume it. We’ll come back to haunt you and I worked for the GAL wants who did not have a college degree and she was looking at potentially moving to a different organization as she asked me. What do I do because I I got the job here saying that I had a degree and I told her taken off your resume because if they find out you have lied it breaks trust and it’s unlikely you’ll keep the job or you can put education on there? Just don’t claim you have a degree great so it could be that you had two or three years education just say hey you know university studying H._R.. Coursework but you didn’t get a degree so don’t claim a degree if you don’t have exactly but you can’t claim that you had the coursework at brings us to number eight years yeah pictures graphics emojis Fancy Fonts getting too cutesy or trying to over graphics yet resume logs in massive distraction action right the only exception that I’m aware of when it comes to changing the formatting and making it look really graphically interesting is if you are getting going for job in the graphic arts. There’s an expectation of of having a graphically produced resume because that is you’re calling card for your skills on how to put that together but that should also be a part of a portfolio as well the work that you’ve done when it comes to just general job job search keep it simple don’t do a lot of formatting don’t put in Emojis or other graphics. Do not put your picture in that opens up a whole bunch of EEOC

20:13 – 25:08

issues not to mention many of these. He’s applicant tracking systems these software out there. They’re not going to pick it up anyway. They may not read anything on your resume. It’s over. They may not be able to even scan it on their exactly so you may not even have a chance to get an interview because you were trying to be cute on your resume. Exceptions would be using your head shot. If you’re in real estate often realtors put that on it so it has become something of an expectation. You want to build trust in in that fashion if your industry has an expectation that you have a photo okay make sure it’s a professional head shot. Don’t for general job searches. Don’t put your photo on your resume and you may even even want to have two different versions. The one that you used for applications might WANNA be stripped of any formatting even if you are a graphic designer. ’cause you want to at least get the call in the conversation and perhaps even on the resume. You put linked to your portfolio. Yes instead of your Lincoln profile may not be there’s ways to get around that we recommend that you use your best judgment and use the resume that gets you the calls right so that brings us to number nine  the cover letter. I’ve seen people actually put a cover letter inside their resume. Really that’s nuts where at the beginning yeah so. It’s like. There’s a cover letter in the resume is below that well. I guess that would make sense to the extent that so many people don’t read the cover letter. Also you’re trying to force them into it. The problem with that is that if they don’t see what your your experiences in the first few seconds they dismiss it outright while the applicants system if you’re if you’re relying and we’re not advocating you rely just on the applications. No I mean the whole foundation of our our podcast is network is networking even so if somebody asks you for the resume and you eventually get it to him with a cover letter taps. It’s confusing using what are you doing. I think that’s a really bad idea. Just leave the cover letter separate just like references you wake references on your resume either right so please don’t put your resume. I agree I don’t think. It belongs there. Let them ask for it this the other thing when it comes to cover letter when the job posting says send your resume and cover letter be sure you’ve written a good cover letter. Don’t put it in the resume that brings us to the next thing not to put on your resume and that’s any kind of redundant information. I’ve seen this Scott where people actually will copy and paste a bullet point bright and move it down to the next role underneath of that. Even though it was different company it was the same title it was the same aim exact words. It’s great to know that you’re you’re taking your transferable skills from one job to another. If it’s a basic skill put it the first time you used it because the chances are pretty good. They will figure out that you’ve been using that same skill title in later jobs if it relates specifically to a specific action that is going to be done by the person whose job you’re applying for. I keeping it to the top may be a good answer but don’t repeat the information nation if it was done differently in prior job used different wording to describe what you were doing any kind of copy and paste can also be seen if you do like a search that one way to kind of overcome this is to do a search for a certain word string and see if it’s redundant inside a your document idea so just do like a little search and say my saying the same thing over and over again or or using the same word so you can do a search for like if you say created a lot you can search for that word inside your resume him and any times it shows us the Yes wow. I didn’t know that word was a tongue twister using Soroush. Yes wow okay okay. Here’s something to drink no. I wish I had that would be a good excuse moving onto the next one. Don’t use a lot of acronyms true. There are some jobs that you apply for that are very specialized. The acronyms ends are well known within your industry and they are commonly used that would be a reasonable exception but if you can’t say with a fair amount of certainty that the person reading this is going to understand that don’t use an acronym spelled out put the acronym in Parentheses and then you can use that accurate in later. You have to make sure that you’ve spelled it out so that the person reading it understand it even if you do that I still discourage people from over using that acronym because I have seen it where they put it in and then they put it in parentheses and literally in the next section of experience.

25:08 – 30:04

It’s used like ten not a good idea. Just don’t repeat yourself over us and the challenge and it’s not so much that you should put acronyms on their two things one it makes it difficult to read because you now have to stop and translate in your mind what that acronym is and then I just missed the value of your statement because I was thinking of however so the mind humans humans mind has to think that way thinking about jobs in medicine for example where the acronym is used as a common word that might be an exception but I would still recommend talking about these things using different different language in the later sections keeping it interesting actually benefits the people who have to read these resumes and this is just the ones that automated system spits out of them. Give them something interesting to read. The second thing is you don’t no who’s going to read this resume. I it could be a junior H._r.. Person even a contractor. That’s just there to screen good point hundred resumes down to stack of twenty maybe then get on the phone so just be sure that you know you don’t know who the person is going to read it and and for those technical folks you can have technical skill section where you can put the alphabet soup that there’s totally acceptable to have a section of things like that that isn’t part of the regular experience and then redundant so and that brings me to that point of putting in the keywords because so often with the automated system we talk about companies are looking for specific keywords. If you haven’t put those specific he words that are in the job description in your experience you can put in that skill section those other key words that you’re looking for and that is a good spot to put the acronyms that you know this company is going to be looking for that brings us to the last twelfth thing not to put on your resume and that’s any kind of sidebars or tables or columns yeah well models right the the borders around a section. This comes sort of comes back to that idea of too much formatting. You can really screw up your chances of being seen if the company uses an automated system for which this kind of formatting is problematic. I see this using tables because it makes everything look really pretty and so if you’re using printed version or even if you expect someone to be looking at the resume on the computer just on the screen. It may look really nice. You’re you’re assuming that is going to get through that automated system and tables and other formatting can really messed that up yeah and that’s really the primary reason we don’t want it there. The challenges is at each time. We see something. We’re distracted from your message. If you have multiple messages trying to distract us we don’t know what the messages as simpler is better because hiring team as a hiring manager that you’ve been you’ve got a lot of resumes to go through not once the same and I’ve got hunt and peck around for the information. I need to put you in the short pile. I tell you don’t make it difficult. As I’ve gone through resumes the one that the ones that stand out are the ones with the most white space because that’s telling me not only the specific experience. The person has has so I can get there quickly it also telling me they’re likely more succinct. They are skilled at giving me a lot of information a few words that can be really powerful that does it for this episode of Job Seekers Radio You can get all show notes and resources sources at job seekers radio DOT COM forward slash zero five to while you’re there we invite you to take advantage of a free resource a free resource resource that we put together for you. It’s the anatomy of a networking conversation. It’s an e book that enter and I put together. We we invite you to download that. Listen to the PODCAST. Read what we’ve got here. We feel really comfortable based on the feedback. We’re getting that we’ve we’ve got a good thing forty here so take advantage of it and that free resource actually will help you because this particular session is about resume but resume is just one tool in your kids there and getting to the interviews what matters batters exactly and we don’t want the resume to be the only thing you rely on to get those rights now. Working is going to get you further than just sending out a resume. Thank you again for joining us for this episode of Job Seekers Radio Scott Ni- both with we appreciate the investment of time and attention. You’ve given to listen to us. Speak About job search because we’ve been through this. We understand yeah a lot of times we’ve been we’ve walked in your shoes exactly head over to itunes and subscribe to get future episodes and while you’re there please provide us a rate in review.

30:04 – 30:15

We love getting feedback. If there’s something we can do better we want to know if there’s something you want hear more of. We want to know that especially if you have questions about your job.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Your questions are answered in today’s episode. You can submit your questions in the contact tab above or in the comments below.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Just met a group of people through my current employer who do what I want to do [aka my dream job], how do I let the group know I want to join?
• My mom says I’m not networked enough to work out here. Could that be what it is?
• A coworker made the comment they didn’t think they’d apply for a job that would be a lateral move but does sound kind of interesting as they didn’t want to appear scattered and unfocused about their career. This had totally not ever occurred to me, what’s your thoughts?
• Why do some recruiters flat out ignore profiles & offer jobs that are completely too high level, with me being under-qualified by a number of criteria, and still reach out?
• What defines the pay level in the contrast to the skills required?
• Is reaching out to a recruiter from a company too much, after submitting for a job on their site?
• After applying for the job, would it be too much to also reach out to a recruiter that works for said company on LinkedIn?

Resources (including affiliate links)

010 Interviewing With Confidence

040 9 Mistakes to Avoid When Interviewing 

The Truth About Online Applications – Why You Are NOT Getting Interviews

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View TranscriptToday on job seekers radio were doing a question the answer these are career questions that have come to us from all over and we have a few that we want to readout and respond to will do these occasionally where we grab these questions and answer because we find these consistent themes that come up over and over again and we wanna make sure that you have some tangible answers from scott myself right so will will mentioned this at the end as well but if you have questions whether in response to things we say in this podcast or any others a we want you to give us that feedback ask the questions either on the website or andy a rate and review and we will answer your questions is well it’s super easy just go the job seekers radio dot com there’s a contact us little section on their super you write it do let us know if you have questions we’re gonna talk about a few questions here the first question is i just met a group of people through my current employer who do the type of work that i would like to do how do i lead the group no i want to join that particular group so where were our understanding this to mean that he is in he or she will just say he this time he’s in a position he works for somebody who has a client and it’s the client who is doing the work that this guy wants to do ultimately like an that could be pretty tricky but i think that if you’re in especially if you’re in sales position where you are being introduced to this group or company whatever it is an end you discovered that they do the kind of work you wanna do if you’re in sales you should be doing a follow up conversation with him any way and so when you think about the fact that everyone likes to talk about what they do about their own strengths about the things that make them feel good a specially professionally then to go to that companies say hey i want to circle back i want to have a follow up conversation which you you sketch of that and you let the the the company no i want to know more about what you do how did you get into that kind of work how do you find clients how do you get involved in that and you’re asking questions about that person’s career that makes them feel good in so as you continue to show your curiosity about that and you could talk about your own skills that would make you a good candidate for doing that work you don’t have to ask the company can i join you they will ask you to join them yes it’ll just happened organic right because you took initiative you became an agent of your career an i would ask myself in this situation how is it that you’re in a role but you don’t feel is fulfilling enough for you to start right there were some good reasons for that but i know that good quite here’s a question i would ask as a coach to this person or you just trading one for another or is this a grass is greener situation as we ignore the virtue and the value that were already getting to take something else because we think it’s better now it could be that as a consultant he is in the general field but not doing actual work that really drives him in that scenario then basically what you wanna do is network into the company the person that it was in charge of your meeting where you witnessed what you like doing that’s your first step but you should also be reaching out to others with enzi the group or at least within that that specific field to network to show you’re interest to to be curious i want to know more about that specific processor that specific outcome how did you get they’re just so you show you’re curiosity you’re going to get some interest you may even especially if this is a project if you’re doing a project as a client vendor relationship i would volunteer to either leave that project or be integral in the success of that project so you can demonstrate skill not only tier player but to the client yeah were you wanna do the work i hesitate to suggest to people that they used their current job in order to get the job from one of their clients in the thing if it happens all the time i’ve i’ve known several people in my career who end up going to work for the vendor or the client or whoever the other party is because they saw the value that this individual gave to the company that currently employed done so i i think about my friend christian who we were both working for the same a corporate housing company and she was really good at doing the coordinator work that she was doing but she wanted to move up and was continually stein need for a number of reasons it’s basically our employer saw her as being really valuable enrolling didn’t want her to leave so they wouldn’t give her the opportunities to grow in so once are partner company got an idea of just how valuable she was and how much she did and how talented she was they offered her a job to do exactly what you wanna do she she wasn’t trying to manipulate anything it’s just that’s the way that happened if you really are passionate about working doing worked at this other companies doing network just to network and stay present yeah it may not be that there’s any job available now but things happen but i think point the the example i always give us hey is there may not be an opportunity today but tomorrow somebody get fired because somebody retire relocated promoted god forbid they die now did you wish that on anybody well maybe some skinny none of these things and that’s called the natural course of this talk to them talk to them down resident stay connected incubate that relationship over time and we opportunities are presented where you could fill a gap that company you’re gonna be in a position of strength store next question emi applying wrong this individual we were not going to redo the entire question because it kind of runs on the this person has been out of a job for about a month she goes on to say she has four hundred active applications out she’s heard back from maybe five could be for my mom says i’m not networked enough to work out here could that be what it is yes yeah that’s the simple answer yet anytime i hear somebody that’s keeping track of applications and try in in through the analytical mind i i can sniff it out only ’cause i’m like that well analytical and people talk about applying for for work as a numbers game in i guess that is a perspective you could take that you know if you’re going to send out a thousand reza macy mike evans interview we yeah that’s not really an effective way to judge you’re job search well it can be if you’re numbers in this case were looking at five out of four hundred yeah so so that one percent the race of the question why would you keep doing that well or is there something wrong with the way you’re applying right at the reza may argue just so there may be facing things that are demonstrating okay in saudi reza mayor where it’s very clear that you’re not a match you’re just applying to apply oh cross my fingers maybe they’ll give me a chance will part of her her background here at the long running question is that she has a customer service background and ity help desk but she wants a full ity job and yet she doesn’t necessarily have all this skills she needs she her background certainly doesn’t show the idea of being a fulltime fulltime help r i t position all she has his help desk an she doesn’t go into anything about what her strengths are a wetter interests are she just wants the ninety job when she then finishes with my mom says i’m not where networked enough to work out here okay i think you’ve got your answer doing the networking will help you answer a lot of the questions come up with a better story and actually make those four hundred applications applications are three hundred applications actually effective is added effort yeah that would push you over the top well it it when you think about it ever that hopefully means added value as you’re talking about what is it that you really want to do do you know what that is other then just getting a full ity job what does that actually mean there’s so many things so many questions that this this question generates that it’s hard genetic code that’s what we’re thinking right you gotta help me understand like fifty questions already because she starts off also i got fired about a month ago so oh will hang on yeah but what i heard what happened there the reason why were actually including this question is there are a lot of questions that should be answered before you get to why is this not successful and if you need help in discovering those questions networking is going to help you get some of the answers if you can’t afford to have a coach this is the person who would really probably benefit a lot from a coach because that coach is going to be able to ask the questions what happened when you lose you’re lost her job what’s going on you know was if you have a customer service background and you were let go is it because you work providing good service or was it because you were showing a lack of interest in doing network because you’re interest is actually getting these other job there’s so many things to unpack and all of that we can’t offer treatment until we diagnosed illness and right now there’s too many questions for us to make an assessment that’s meant but what i would say in terms of advice is know what you’re going for make sure all of you’re materials you’re linked in you’re resonant or in alignment with that same and you’re seeking an antenna go talk to people people know give me one that to yes no fly you want what you want these are things that are basic questions that you should be able to answer because if you’re just putting the application out there and nothing else hopefully you’re writing cover letters when you send these out then that begs the question what do you saying in the cover letter there’s so much that you you need to dive into for this individual i’m going to say listen to you’re mother sorry say that everybody not everyone but most get out there start talking to the people who were doing the work you wanna do and make sure that you can then answer the question why you wanna do it to let’s move onto the next career question this person asks does applying willy nilly leaper internal job postings damage your career i apply for pretty much anything i slightly consider i had a conversation yesterday with a co worker and they made the comment they didn’t think they’d apply for a job that would be a lateral federal move but does sound kind of interesting as they’d want to don’t want to appear scattered in unfocused this never occurred to me what are your thoughts i agree with a coworker yeah i think applying willy nilly either inside you’re company or outside of your company is it’s not a good idea and the reason why is because if you’re just applying for everything and then someone ask you why do you want this job how do you respond to that there’s no focus i want job well that’s nice you know tell me why i should hire you then it it it’s it’s a week starting point it typically comes from a position of i’m bored i’m not engaged i’m not fulfilled there’s something else going on here the exact there’s there’s always a question behind or answer behind it answer question behind a question right hasn’t been discussed yet let let’s put the best possible spin on this i apply willy nilly for every internal job i can’t because i love love this company and i wanna learn more about it if that’s the case don’t apply for the job do the job shadowing through your company to show you’re interest in the company if you keep doing that you you will become visible to the company leaders who understand that you want to know as much as you can about this job so that you can really created career within it that is gonna be really good for you but if you’re not having those conversations how will they know if you’re just applying it comes to the idea of the spaghetti you know you throw it on the wall to see if it sticks well i don’t throw an awful lot of spaghetti that way we should have a movie called be accidental canada that’s a good idea that would be a good one what it is that they were gonna do this on practice right i mean what’s the point and that that’s fine i i’m having a tree well maybe you’re just demonstrated everybody you know i wanna be a receptionist nothing wrong with being a receptionist i actually know i have a couple of friends that love doing the work that’s how they meet so many people do idea is if you have no focus then you have a week story the talent why very compelling adamas exactly where i was going why would people listen to you if you’re applying to every job just because you are bored or because you don’t know what you wanna do there other ways to find out what you wanna do other ways to keep from being bored i don’t think that’s a good strategy an you mentioned earlier i think about strength quest their strengths finder there’s a number of different assessments that you can take with very little money and often you’re company probably has a these types of services already available to you if you were to ask yes yeah talk talk to you’re hr or you’re development folks defined out what learning opportunities you have available trust me if they make these things available and many companies do especially the larger the company the more they can offer take advantage of them if you are always taking advantage of self development opportunities aunt coming back to the company table just say i want to to add more value and that’s the conversation you’re having then you’re going to be able to move in other positions but that also means you don’t have to be applying willy nilly i just think that’s a week strategy be more active be more engaged take control you know we have there’s a lot to what do you wanna do decide that first don’t just apply for everything it’s scattershot and it doesn’t help you that brings us to schizophrenia question number fork i’m just kidding were just put in some humor into this and this is actually a two part question question a i’ve been looking for some new jobs passively in technology question number one why do some recruiters flat out ignored profiles in offered jobs that are completely too high level and it sounds like a m a kennedy mismatch yeah that’s what i’m feeling mismatched yeah so let let’s just say that he is he’s working in data analytics i think is what the the profile said and he’s a recent college graduate someone has reached out to him about a job for what she’s not qualified or he doesn’t feel w doesn’t feel caulfield health i okay my response to that having recruited over the years is they see something that interests them and it maybe the they don’t need you to be fully qualified with a lot of experience because you’re going to have opportunities to grow into the position if that’s the case then they’re already expressing interest and a potential potential value in you that’s a compliment end the way this was worded i’m wondering if you’re looking at that that there’s something wrong with that i think it’s a compliment i would take advantage of tell me more about the role yeah in okay so you as you see on my of my life that i don’t have any experience here is experience really lynch pin in the success for this or will i be learning along the way you may be handed on a silver platter a great opportunity now if instead you come back in you challenge them and why don’t you look at the profiles did you look at my profile yeah i’m going to say thank you have a great day because that that’s not inappropriate not not not to mention the recruiters take abuse all day long yeah they they have a kennedy they’re dealing with hiring managers of dealing with their training schedule interviews they’re trying to get offers out yeah that that that that’s not they don’t need grief from kennedy right they actually being abusive yeah it the other side of this if you have a coach your coach should be asking you why on earth would you would you ask that of year recruiter why do you look at it that way because there’s a good likelihood that you think you’re not capable when somebody else sees capability that is something you really wanna work on to become more confident in your you’re natural abilities in why would you say no the hiring team that won kind of baffles me yeah well they were the second part to this schizophrenia question and that is what defines the paid level in contrast to the skills required an in this case he provided some low unemployment numbers and what appears at least to me it’d be low compensation numbers from the geography he’s in okay so let’s answer that on on its face they be idea that we’ve got really low unemployment are area end you’re offering a low pay well most companies at least if they’re large enough to have a compensation analyst or manager they’re going to be looking on a regular basis at what the market in your geographic area as well as within the field what does that pay for that level most companies that i work with us directly or or know about generally don’t start people at even the middle of the salary range they’re going to be a little bit lower than the mid range of what they might have budgeted for that position most companies will tell you what the budget is they’re just gonna tell you if they say anything at all they’ll tell you what the target pay is but that’s because they’re looking at a whole bunch of different factors what i generally tell people is you need to do your homework as well what research have you done about the job that you’re looking for in the geographic area that you are are looking giving your skill set what what is the pay rate that you think is fair and i i never ever tell people come up with a single number always working arrange right because then if their range overlaps with your is now you know where you’re sweet spot is in both of you win in that situation what what i’m getting from this is a lot of assumption about out what you think is a low salary and it may be that this company has that job title is actually the lower pay who knows in job titles from company the company you’re gonna very bad ass on roles duties responsibilities is an compensation absolutely that’s why it’s so important a taxi get to the interview understand the role and make a decision on compensation later on when you understand the role in they understand you’re skills and you agree that you wanna work there right so this person is a recent college grad i think that’s great so he he’s been exposed to all these different things with in a data analytics told the the different a and he’s fresh yeah yeah but but he has the oldest dollars that that’s fantastic maybe not a lot of experience but is it possible that the roles that’s being filled doesn’t need all that is it possible that the role that he is applying for is actually focused in a small area and they really need somebody with unlimited skill set to come in and do this kind of work so that actually makes sense the lower salary is there well it could be a contract firm it happening out there a lot of yelling at a hundred and fifty and paying twentyfive yeah i don’t know okay so there’s so many variables there but what would i the feeling i’m getting from the scott is he’s kind of a passive kennedy these recruiters are coming to him he’s being combative in the the salary if it’s a recruiter reaching out to you at the front end of the conversation that’s too early they have any celery live dream and we talked about that i think in another podcast about you know how do you handle that salary question i’ll see if i could locate that and put it in the show notes but he ideas hey i’m it’s a little early in the process to be discussing compensation i would like to learn more about the requisition the role in i’m sure you have a budget what you’re budget you may not get that number should forward rather than pushing it away match your skills whether their experience or or educational doesn’t really matter see if it’s actually a match to the role that you’re talking about that you would desired maybe you are qualified do senior level work because there is no one else out there that can do that were sure maybe not kennedy but he was the one who got all the leverage now yeah again i i would have this person talk to to a coach or to a friend who is could mentored him to to really dig a little deeper into what it is he’s looking for and why he’s making me assumptions and he’s making that brings us to the last question of the podcast it’s been so wonderful being with you folks but this is the last question is reaching out to a recruiter from a company too much after some minting per job on their site after applying for a job would it be too much also reach out to recruiter on linked in no it’s not too much i think it’s a a best practice actually now be gentle went into it if you come onto forcefully than that probably is gonna turn that person up but with that said there’s nothing wrong with reaching out to a recruiter after you’ve submitted you’re you’re rest of may know that a lot of people do that so it’s unlikely you’ll be only one the bigger question is is the recruiter ashley gonna see her messaging respond to it and good point at an i can’t imagine i’m just thinking out it loud right and you’ve probably been there that they average recruiters proudly carrion thirty fifty requisitions hundred plus kennedy’s per requisition that plus all the teams are supporting offers right interviews all that a lot of work that’s a lot of email yeah okay my suspicion is they may not be seeing that email or they might have filter set up that any emails from kennedy it’s kind of flow into neverland if you will and they only respond to emails from their own corporate structure or they’re responding to emails cetera replying to their initial contact yeah unfortunately email is a great way to screen out a lot of messages so but with that said if you have an opportunity to actually speak to the person person then take advantage of that opportunity just don’t beat them up about it just say i i submitted my reza may i hope that i can be considered and then give them one compelling reason why they should look pre reza may it may be that you not only reach out to the recruiter but maybe you find somebody you know a friend a family member whatever somebody used to work west that works inside the company and let them know you applied and see if they can’t put their their two cents in ontario canada see so they other the later part of it would it be too much to reach out to the recruiter on linked in again no but linked in is a great opportunity to find out if you know somebody else on me inside i just helped a friend of mine recently he was applying for a job that it turns out an acquaintance of mine actually works there and so although he doesn’t work inside hr he he agreed to at least help where he could so i could introduce him the two of them to see if maybe something happen that is a great tool don’t hesitate to reach out to somebody on me inside that does it for this episode of job seekers radio you can get all show notes in resources that job seekers radio dot com forward slash zero five one we also want to call your attention to a free resource that we’ve created download from the job seekers radio dot com the free e book anatomy of a networking conversation this is something andrew and i put together just for you every single question here theanswer could be in that networking to find the solution to that problem whatever that problem might be so thank you for joining us for this episode of job seekers radio your investment of time and attention is really appreciate it head on over to i tunes in fact there’s a link right here on the show notes whether you’re on your mobile device or on the web go ahead and click that i tunes link an subscribed to get future episodes while you’re there could you please
Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Protracted job searches can wear down your resilience. Dealing with repetitive rejection can lead to dejection. 

Scott and Andrew discuss strategies to approach your rejection using empowering strength.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Knowing it’s normal and healthy to feel dejected.
• Rejection is never about you.
• How to be an active agent of your career future.
• Changing perspective on failure.
• Preparing yourself to take a “no.”
• Finding things you can control.

Resources (including affiliate links)

Ray Schalk – Baseball Hall Of Famer 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

0:00 – 05:05

Today on job seekers radio were talking about dealing with repetitious rejection and doing that with empowering strength have rejection something, everybody dislikes. There’s a human being on earth that enjoys rejection. Well, maybe I shouldn’t say that there may be somebody who’s thank you, another. Yes. Generally speaking, nobody likes rejection. And when you get it over and over again, that can really mess with your head personal experience was during the great recession, I was unemployed for three years. And I really had a tough time. I was doing a little bit of consulting during the time. That’s worked that I enjoyed then but it wasn’t enough. And as time passed, I got more and more desperate. When you’re in that situation, the feelings of doubt are inescapable. So the idea of having empowering strength can seem to be out of your rage. Well, whether it’s you being overlooked for promotion, or you know, you’re doing everything you can to get an interview, but nothing’s happening or maybe had some great interviews. And no go. Yeah. Yeah. And I actually had a coal with the gentleman this week, who had been looking for a year four hundred applications or some such thing he’d had a handful of interviews. No offers. He had an ino-. Here’s the thing, Scott. He’d also paid for coaching. He paid for a resume writer, he made all the investments, he he was doing all the right thing. And he was still feeling  dejected. Yeah. From all the rejection as I say it’s inescapable to feel that way. I guess there are a few things that I say to people when they bring this to me, is, first of all, you have a right to feel that way, it is normal, and healthy to feel that way. You shouldn’t get down on yourself because you feel that way because this is a normal reaction. Yes, we wanna do something different, so that you can change the way you feel. And that’s really where we where we go with this conversation. The first step. App. In understanding, what’s happening is rejection is never about you. It is always about the other person that opens the door there. Many possible reasons why that person isn’t making the connection that you want them to make. But it is not about you. It is not about your employability, or your ability to move up, or your worthiness or really any of the, the things that we tell ourselves that. Oh on not good enough. Because fill in the blank, right? It’s usually because someone else is reacting or they have something else in mind, or they don’t know what they want that often happens and as tough as it is to do a job. Search getting those impersonal emails and no engagement from the other side. It stinks it in so I can see how that would wear down on somebody in. And it’s normal for that to happen. That’s why we always encourage people to do the networking piece is gonna put you at an advantage. But the idea here is there not rejecting you. They might have accepted somebody else. And if that’s the case, then again, it’s not about you. It’s about them accepting somebody else, but that doesn’t mean they’re saying no to you. You’re saying yes to somebody. Yes. And the, the other side of that is if they say that your qualifications weren’t as good matches they want I encourage people to ask why you may not get the answer. And that’s also not about you. I’ve had experience in doing interviews where the other person actually gives me feedback whether it’s it was between you and this other person, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve come in second, but the other person had X amount of experience that actually, you know that you didn’t that. That’s what put us over the edge for that person. And it was. Not a slight for me. It’s just that person had something that I didn’t there was also been times when they say, well, you weren’t as strong in this area, and I actually have a lot of experience in that area. Well, clearly, I didn’t communicate properly or there is something else that they’re deciding. But this is where he’s going. And again, that’s not about me. So I shouldn’t take that personally, I like your affirmation the way that you said that. And this idea of empowering strength maybe comes from, you know what I did this? I can do this.

05:05 – 10:13

I am the whole Stuart Smalley kind of silly. But, you know, the, the fact of the matter is, and I say this a lot with people that have been laid off as the company that you were at did. They pay you to do the work and the answer is normally ass. So they paid you for your skills. Right. Yes, that means that somebody else will do the same thing. Yes. As validation. Yes, the fact that you’re not there anymore is just circumstance. Somebody else out. There is gonna pay you for those same skills. If not for the other ones, prefer, you. Yes. So take your be the agent of your career future. Absolutely. And you touched on something that I think is important for those who have not gone through the strengths finder, or strengths quest program, two different books, basically, the same program. It’s really, really helpful not just to recognize what your strengths are, but also to be able to talk about them. Because when you speak confidently, whether it’s an interview or now networking conversation, when you speak confidently about your strengths, your confidence rubs off on the person who is sharing this moment with you. And that is what makes you seem compelling. Especially when it’s in inner in an interview knowing what your strengths are and being able to, to constantly speak about them will get people to ask more questions about your abilities and. That’s all part of the process of just changing the story that’s in your head. Because if you get rejected enough times, you start believing it through that something’s wrong with you. When in reality that something different often it can feel like failure of, really I had to change my mindset about failure as well, because when you start feeling like you’re a failure rather than, hey, I just failed at this activity this one time it was just an event. It wasn’t my reality. It was just a situation that happened. Then my mindset in the story, I tell myself changed and what started doing. Is it opened my mind to thinking about other things like what can I do differently? Get different results. And that is probably going to be the best thing. You could do to create that sense of resilience. The ability to bounce back from multiple rejections is what can I learn from this specific experience? Because I know when I have been rejected several times. Times to working in a field where there aren’t a lot of jobs for people who do when I do getting those rejections open over again, to your point makes me wonder am I actually going to be able to get that job in my good enough to do that is this ever going to work for me? If I switched that around and look at what did I learn from each one of these experiences that can build on the next experience, and it may not be the full foundation that I need to get that next job? It’s one more piece. How can I look at every rejection as a learning experience? That’s where resilience comes from, because if I can learn something, then I can make something a little bit different next time. If there isn’t anything apparent to learn, then I’m going to approach my next opportunity to try it again and get that learning experience. So now I’m totally reframing the purpose of this. Interview if I’m investing in myself. I don’t care as much about getting that job as long as I learning. And when you talk to your interviewer to say, hey, okay, so you’re not going to give me this job. I am trying to learn how to have these conversations in a more effective. Wait. What feedback can you give me many of them will say, oh, I you know, I don’t have anything to offer and that’s because their fear again, that’s not about you, those that do give you the feedback. That is a gift even if they don’t give you the feedback I think you can run through that process from application to interview to know and say to yourself. Okay, did I have certain strengths in that interaction, meaning did I know somebody on the inside? Did I haven’t internal champion to guide me? Did they know me before it came to the interview, head, I know them before dry interview, do how much do I know about the company? I’m applying for. And this is how we can make those fine tuning adjustment. Okay. I gave it a shot. I give it my best effort. And I gotta know I did everything I could there and be be okay with that. And then make that fine-tuning adjustment. Maybe I need to in that organization if it’s one at really wanna work for is I need to go knock on another door. Maybe there’s another team or another person or a willing ear inside the organization to keep that interaction going to that point, actually, I want to give a little caveat for those who decide this as the company, I want to work for, and they’re doing everything they can to get in and they keep getting negative messages from the different people.

10:13 – 15:04

They talked to I think it’s really healthy to question whether or not my initial desire to work for that company as well placed, I, I know somebody who is trying to get he’s a graphic designer trying to get into a design house mainly consultancy, but he would it was going for. An internal position he was treated rather horribly by the recruiter that he had originally talked to. So he networked in and talk to somebody else. Who also did not behave. Well, and so in our conversations we were talking about, do they actually live the culture. They preach. And when he had a third opportunity to talk somebody and still was not treated. Well he lost his interest in working for that company. And that is really helpful. What are the odds, though, that the three people he talked to the only eight holes in them? Exactly. But it does happen. It does happen. And that is one data source, but I’ve seen people. I mean rich Lehman is a good example, or did ninety nine some hundred. Let’s say one hundred informational to get his job. But he wasn’t time to a lot of jerks along the way may my I mean I, I mean, I’m not gonna mention the company probably discern from some of our I’ve met plenty of those holes from their race. But that doesn’t describe everybody play. It’s okay to, to be okay with the no. And there are ways that you can take care of yourself in this process, reminding yourself that this is not about you that they’re no is about something other than who you are. It is not about many times. It’s not actually about the skills. You have, it’s if anything the skills you may not have that they’re specifically looking for. But again, it could be that they don’t know what they want. Speaking of self care. If you’re facing over a long period, time, repetitious rejection, and you don’t feel like you’re empowered at all. Sometimes we need to take control of something, simple, very simple. Maybe that’s as simple as deep breathing. Yeah. You know what I mean? It’s okay. I can control my breathing or empowered. But how often do we actually do that to stop taking the breath? We think about meditation. I used to meditate all the time I haven’t been, and I’m thinking, wow. You know, I should get back into that. And here you mentioned again breathing. Right. It’s something that we can do that actually has physical benefits slowing the breath, down clearing the mind. These are things that have measurable benefits and I don’t do them even now with the regularity that I should, so I won’t hold it against you. Thank you. The other thing is maybe go for a walk that I do. Maybe throw some rocks. Not at not at people. He’s careful at their windows. I was thinking more like on a lake or skipping skipping rock. Whatever that looks like sometimes we just need to get makers. No, I would never act, right? Okay. I’ll take your word for that care of yourself. Exercise do things that make you feel better physically, always helps mentally. And when you’re in a job search, maybe even for a long period of time, there’s probably some really key personal relationships, people that are close to family friends etcetera that you should probably lean into just a moral support. Yeah. We need that connection all human beings need connection just to come back to the physical self care just momentarily. I read an article this week, and I’m not able to recall specifically where it came from. It was about the effects of diet, on depression, and the. Studies that had that were being quoted in this article showed pretty clearly that having a balanced healthy diet, lots of vegetables, and fruits and fiber and no process or little, processed foods, little sugar, actually, improved people’s moods. It helped them battle depression, without medication or it helped them keep their medication. Lo whatever that that was eat. Right. When you’re going through a long-term job search with a lot of rejection, your diet is going to make a difference difference. And it’s not uncommon that you want to perhaps, give yourself a time out and to say what I’ve been getting so much rejection. I just need a break. Need a pause and it doesn’t have to be a long. Pause. Just take a short break. We talk about this in several of our podcast. Give yourself permission to stop for a while. It’s really important to just brief stop rest take a break.

15:04 – 18:41

As you say it can be a really short one, but it’s important that you stop and rest. And at some point, get back in the fight, because this is a don’t give up. Yeah. Don’t ever give up. Get in there. And I’m not sure why I have this in the show notes, or the don’t give up. I was thinking about, you know, what was what is the minimum standard to get into the hall of fame of baseball right base? And I did a search on because there are different halls of fame, even fault. I don’t know that you’re adding average right standing. Well, the people, the wrong wjm probably have at least a three hundred batting. Okay. Right to get in there. I actually found a gentleman name ratio talk. He had to fifty three batting average. And I thought to myself, how in the world could a guy that’s five foot nine with, with two fifty three batting average in the hall of fame. How’s that possible? Tell me, I don’t know. So really, I had to look to go back and read what his assets were. And the reason he was in the hall of fame wasn’t because of his offense. It was because of his defense. And in this case, he was a catcher and by percentage he led the league for catchers eight years in a row, he, which is never been never been duplicated. You think about how he would support others in the game itself. The way it has played the runs batted in the, the other things that he, he did for his teammates, so that they succeeded. He was the penalty of team player. And in this case, he had a ninety eight nine eighty one fielding percentage for a catcher, which is insane. It’s almost perfect never happened. So what we need to recognize throughout his processes. Sometimes we’re trying to fit in somebody else’s box. Yes. Okay. There were trying to be the guy with three hundred plus batting average and all these runs. I mean, the guy played for seventeen years and only had let had less than six hundred RBI’s that wasn’t his strength. But if you’re going out and saying, that’s what. The market is asking for then were chasing something that’s not us, right? And great point. Why are you trying to fit in when you are prepared to stand out if you know, your strengths, and that’s how you can stand out for this group that company that team, whatever that is what you should be talking about. So have your story about your strengths ready to go speak confidently about it. You will get people excited about your strengths. So we’ll have all the details on Ray. Shock in the show notes as well as access to a free resource. Yeah. We put together of free book for you called the anatomy of networking conversation. It’s a resource that we wanna give you just as a, thank you for listening to us that does it for this episode. You can find all the show notes that networking resource at seekers radio dot com forward slash zero five zero. Well, thanks everybody for being here with us. We acknowledge that you have invested your time and attention. And we want to express our gratitude for that head over to itunes and subscribe to get future episodes. And while you’re there, if you would please rate and review, we would be grateful for the BAC. Those also a link in the show notes for that I tunes link code super easy to do that, right down below in the show notes, regardless of the device, you’re joining us on and should be right down belong, while I’m Andrew and I’m Scott until next time. Thank you.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

When life changes and you are in or expecting to move to a new city, finding work can be a challenging process. Steps can be taken to improve your chances and plan for the expectations you have in relocating to a new geography.

Scott and Andrew discuss the components to consider when considering a location change..

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Preparing to discuss the WHY behind your relocation.
• Mapping the timelines and communicating that to various audiences.
• Preparing financially for the relocation and hiring process.
• Dealing with the timeline optimal versus the actual timeline.
• Discussing your plans with a current employer
• Building a team of advocates – the people that will support.
• Appearing as local as local can be.
• Planning the frequency for visits
• Value of LinkedIn and best practices.
• Logistics for interviews.
• What to do when there’s no relocation assistance.
• Identifying local associations and publications in your domain

Resources (including affiliate links)

Business Journal (find your target city) 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

0:00 – 05:23

Today on job seekers radio were talking about how to find a job in a different city. Right. That remote job search if you will, we’re not talking about remote work at home. But how do I find a job say my wife and I talk a lot about Italy. How would I find a job in Italy? Yeah, I can’t speak to international moves, but I can’t speak to interstate moves within the US. And so I imagine it’s going to be similar, obviously with international moves. You’ve got a whole lot of layers to get through, and I have no. Yeah. And we’re permit exactly all that so into every country is different. I back many years ago, I was looking at the possibility of moving to France and looking at their requirements. I happened to find a website about how to be an illegal alien in France. And I didn’t think that was a good idea. So all different countries have different rules. And there’s a lot of research that goes into that, that I only done some and I’m not really up on that. But I can talk about the interstate moves or even interested. If you’re for example, your your living in southern California, and you wanna move to northern California. There are things that you can do to set that up. Well while in fact, you actually relocated to Portland from somewhere else. Right and vice versa. Yes, he ended up finding workout estate and that just exactly worked out for you. But the idea, here is that you deliberately have a purpose for relocating somewhere. Exactly. So when I when I was in California, I wanted to come back home to Portland, because this is where I grew up. I have felt for some time that this is a really good fit for me here. And so I wanted to get back into that to primarily detested is, in fact, where I belong, and of course, things have gone. Well, since I came back, there are a few things that I tell people when they when they asked me, how do I get a job in another city? There are some things that you want to be prepared for. And the first one is be able to talk about. Why, why are you reload relocating to a new place or in my case to an old place? A place where you used to be that haven’t been for awhile, and it’s not because you want to make up a story. It’s that you want to sound confident in telling your story. So I tell people practice practice your story, so you can be concise, so you can. Make it sound as compelling for the other person. And as you feel it is for yourself and that way, they don’t think that you’re just making it up just to get a job because that sense of desperation doesn’t make anybody look good. And you’re confident in your communication makes them confident in you. Yes and also allows them to see okay if I do pay for the relocation or not, I might have to go get the funds for that. And if this guy’s good enough or gal I might consider paying for that, that relocation sheri-, and now getting that attention in the first place being able to have the conversation. There are some tricks to the trade if you will that, that I think are important, first of all, as part of the store, you need to know when you wanna move as well. Whenever the reason is say, you want to be with family or there’s. Whatever that is parents. Whatever know what your timeframe is because if you have a hard deadline that you have to be somewhere. It’s important to set yourself up to be able to talk about that, again without sounding desperate. You also want to give yourself enough lead time. And if you don’t actually have a deadline, then the ready to tell people that, you know, you’re looking to move in X period of time something short term, but you’re not committing yourself to say, I’m gonna be there by the fifteenth unless you’re going to be there by the teeth violates tell them that but you gotta be here by the fifteenth because they put off an interview until the sixteen and if you’re not here that could be problematic. No, what your timing looks like how firm it needs to be, how open it needs to be? And again, if it’s open just talk in general terms. I’m planning on being there around the end of the month or around. In the middle of next month or whatever that looks like and be prepared to make good on that. It’s important to determine whether or not you can afford to cut off one source of income to relocate and, and have some runway to get another opportunity because being local does make a little bit of a difference and convincing hiring teams to invest in relocation might be out of there Howard at say their budget, which is an uncommon, I would encourage you if you can try to relocate in advance and create for yourself.

05:23 – 10:10

Some runway I understand also that that’s not always possible. Right. Have to be somewhere to certain time or your spouse gets a promotion and gosh, you’re stuck back here and you don’t want to relocate the whole family until the school year’s over, and, you know, there’s all these decisions that have to be made. And that which you just described his exactly what happened to somebody in my family just this year. The fact that he moved to the south. They were in southern cali-. And he left his wife back home to finish wrapping up the house, making sure that the remodeling that they had started was finished that everything set up, and that was like two month process that they were living in two different places, and obviously had to pay for both places. If you’re in a position where you can build up that runway say you have, you know, a years worth of savings. So, in other words, you could pay all your bills for full year. That’s probably a good foundation. If you if you’re in an industry where you are fairly confident that you’re going to get hired right away. Then maybe six months is a good amount of savings that you can eat through, and I’ve known people to do that. They they’ve, they’ve been socking this money away, and it’s when they think about investing in their future. They’re willing to give a portion of their savings to that, or they make some sacrifices couch surf get a roommate or whatever that looks like. In that I always think of Katie who are talking about before we started the podcast. How she she was working in a distant city. It literally is a five hour drive from where she was to get to Portland. And she did that almost every week or every two weeks to come to breakfast club, and that was her way of kind of saying, okay, yes, I’m still working, but I’m gonna dedicate some time to come here because I’m not working full-time, right? She had a more flexible, schedule that allowed her to visit that geography. Yep. And so maybe that’s something to consider is can I get my current employer? Let lay it out say, hey here’s my situation spouses over here. Now, I’m going to have to relocate and often you might have a conversation to say. Hey, can I do do my job remote in this other place? Yes. For a period of time until you, locate somebody else, or maybe they make that permanent. But at least you put it on their radar that you’re in that position. And not that you’re leaving. For cause. But you have this situation right. I think that’s great advice. If you have a good relationship with your current employer, and your look, you’re looking to move because your spouse are some other important reason is sort of compelling, you, then a lot of employers are in a position to do something at least in the short term so that you could help you could still be getting some kind of income, maybe not all that you used to. But a lot of people are willing to work with you. When you are still showing loyalty to them knowing that this is going to have to change in some fashion. And if they know people in the city that where you’re going, your destination, they may be able to help you in that way as well advocates all around. Yeah. So the more advocates you can create help you through that relocation, the better if that doesn’t exist for you. You don’t have a willing ear with your employer and it looks like you’re on your own. It. Doesn’t hurt to create some sort of local presence for yourself. Absolutely. And that includes building yourself a local network being deliberate about connecting with people in that geography on linked in whatever that looks like and even getting a local phone number often, you can get a mobile device. Oh, well, or, or even Google voice, and Bradley exact that has a local area code so that you at least appear local when I was at this was several years ago, but I was actually looking a had been going back and forth between Portland and Long Beach, California. And so, I had a Google voice number for Long Beach, which I ended up needing because, yes, I landed a job there, but I didn’t wanna get rid of my organ phone number because I knew eventually I’d be back. And so, but I needed a local phone number for the condominium place, where I was living day had the, the dial in buzzer. So I needed a local number for that. So I just kept that long as I lived in the condo. But these these are ways to create a local presence, without having to be in place. There are a lot of the mail services that, that can receive mail for you, and then ship it in bulk, either weekly or monthly wanted to go.

10:10 – 15:04

Yeah. And so that is an option and it’s a real address. It’s not something, it’s not a PO box. So you can have packages or anything else delivered to these locations. And I think that is a really good service, even the UPS store, dues ical address won’t know it just has your business Dame and a sweet number. And so they think you have a an actual sweet. They’re just happens to be three by five by twelve right? Since that little box. Now you had mentioned Kaos kept serving a minute ago, having a friend, if you do have a friend in your destination city, then asking that friend. To allow you to use their address on your resume or to receive professional E mail there. I have yet to find any of my friends who would say, no because you’re not intruding on their living space, unless you’re out Seraing, which many, my friends would let me do that, too, for a limited period of time. Of course, you know, I don’t know that they would want anybody coming into a one bedroom apartment sleeping on the couch for a long stay three’s company. Yeah. For a week or two. My friends have allowed me to do that. There have been times when I needed that when I’ve been between home so having that local presence makes a difference, because if you put a, a local address on your resume, which there’s a lot of back and forth about putting an address on a resume in the first place, you’re giving away, personal information. Let’s assume that you do having your in this case, California address. By looking for work in Portland. That may be a disqualifier before they actually look at your qualifications. I recommend get a local address so you can put that on your resume. You can still add city state without putting your address on there, often it could be that the application itself, the online piece might ask for an address. And that’s when you need. Yes, it’s not something that’s required on a resume date. Yeah. The other thing I would suggest is that if you’re looking at maybe a six month or a one year window to actually make this transition. It’s kind of an on purpose transition, where you have some time is to make regular trips to the area. If you’re going there already to meet people or to be with family, or check out the schools, or whatever that reason might be you can, then bundle, your networking activities, and, and any interviews in those sorts of things around those trips. Yes. Just so that you can optimize your time in geography as much as possible. Well, and I think it’s also especially important if you don’t know the city. Well wherever you’re headed. But even if you do if it’s been awhile since you’ve been there, I think it’s important to maintain your credibility by by being able to speak about that locale in current terms. Because if you’re talking about something that actually hasn’t really been in existence for the last three years, they’re going to they’re going to question, where is this coming from? Right. And you may present that. Oh, yes, I remember when I went to this place where I remember when I went to that place and there, again, going to start to question. Why is there anything current? I love the idea of coming to the destination city periodically because for those who want to build their network in their destination. That’s the way to do it. You gotta show up to things and went in these networking opportunities when they know you’re coming up just to. Work. That actually is a good thing. You’re showing your enthusiasm about wanting to be here, want to help you. Yeah. Exactly. Have a commitment to be in that geography. Be present. People will take you more seriously. That you’re really making that move is not uncommon that when you’re out there on social media trying to make connections that people are going to see what geography you’re in and you can go into linked in put in a new zip code in a change, your geography, even though you’re not living there. But it is important that they see that you are there. It’s not a ruse and believe me, if you are looking at specific employers, they probably will look online, whether it’s Facebook Instagram anything else, they are going to get a mod at your if you have a social media presence, and so if all of your social media is in Newark, New Jersey, and you’re saying that you live in San Francisco that disconnection is going. Raise question marks, if I as a hiring manager have a chance to look at an application from someone that everything is co-pathetic. And then I get one where there something questionable. I don’t think I’m going to spend too much time on the questionable resume or application.

15:04 – 20:01

I will go with one net that feels authentic with that said, if the second one comes in and. Oh my goodness. This person is absolutely qualified. I may give that, that disconnection pass going to that place to do your networking, take pictures talk about the positive experiences you have in your destination city, and it doesn’t have to cost a fortune to go there regularly, if you are talking about a very long distance, move, where were driving is not an option then budgeting those plane tickets and having that friend in the city or figuring out a way to afford that trip you can probably do that more often than. You think now they’re going to be some people who simply can’t, and those are the ones that are going to have to hit hard, the efforts on contacting people in the cities, and telling them yes, I’m gonna need relocation and all that. Those jobs are few and far between but they do exist. So don’t lose hope and don’t overlook the value of networking, even when you’re not in that location when we’re finding is more and more people are doing their networking, virtually any ways they’re doing phone conversations or even a Skype and the interviews are happening this way anyways as well. You may have two or three interviews by phone or Skype or what have you before you even show up in a city. Well, and that’s what happened to my last job in California was. I was here in Portland. I did the first two interviews via Skype and then I drove down to have the last interview and ended up staying because they offered me the job that day which was. Not expected. I stay down there and had all my stuff shipped back to me, the one thing about networking via linked in especially is if you are reaching out to someone who is in a different city from where you are now I think it’s really important that you send that message as to why you want to connect, because I get a lot of messages from people in far flung areas, where we have one friend in common or one connection in common. They don’t send me any message. Why would you wanna connect with me? If you tell them why. And then you make an effort to actually engage in conversation with them that will actually begin the effort. But if you’re just connecting with people at a distance, you don’t give him any reason as to why and you don’t follow up. Why would they want to connect? They wouldn’t when you do go into Lincoln, they often make it very easy for you to click a connect. But and you’re not aware that it actually just sends a dealer. Message. They don’t give you the option. So I always encourage people to, to connect from the desktop computer from the profile agent. Exactly go to their provide so they can see number one that you’ve looked at their profile and number two that you clicked the connect button in the actually put a customized message even something saying, like, hey, I’m relocating to the area undoing discovery. We’d like to get your perspective on x y and z. Yup. Are you open to a conversation connect? Yeah. I think that’s the perfect message because it’s clear that what the motive is. I generally has Tate to connect with anyone that I don’t see a logical connection happening unless we have ten connections in common. And then I’m going to assume that there are some affinity there. But I reach out to those people. And then when they come back, they just I wanna know here connected with, that’s a problem. You’re just minding my connections, less than you’re not really looking to network. And that is something that I generally tell people try to avoid doing that. Well, be honest, and at least help people why. And if they say, yes, great, if they don’t that’s okay too. In my book, you’re not gonna get one hundred percent of the people to say yes to that, but, you know, you want to increase your chances of actually getting connected, and having that conversation, right? Regardless of the geography when we talk about the conversations that have been for interviews that can be something of a dance because, for example, again, in my case, I had the Skype interviews those went very well. They wanted to see me in person. So I drove down and. If if you are really trying hard to get to that destination city you have to be prepared to make the trip when it works for them. That’s not easy. So that does take some preparation to be able to do that. But when they know that you’ve done that for them, and if they have said in the job posting or in the conversations you’ve had that they don’t cover relocation. You have to once again be ready with that confidence story to, to explain to them. Why you don’t need relocation assistance.

20:01 – 24:08

Because if, if they can’t offer it, and you can make them feel good about the fact that you’re coming. Anyway, they will consider you if there’s any question about that that’s going to keep a yellow flag. If not a red one flying in the back of their minds and you can check with your tax person. There is a number of things when you relocate that are tax deductible if it’s outside of. Certain mile radius of where you are currently you can write off a lot of those expenses. And, and I worked in the real estate industry. So I know how they fund the relocations is typically, on the back of the real estate commissions. So that’s how they fund all of the all of the costs of relocating. At least the moving piece of it. The one thing I would say in the end, though, is if you really want to go to the other city to different place. Do it make it happen. It can be so exciting. And if you the worst case scenario is you get there and after a year to this just is not working. I hesitate to say that it’s not worth the investment because if you don’t try, you would never know you could always go somewhere else. If you land in a place that you just can’t stand. I also think about bloom where you’re planted. I don’t know who said that. It’s a quote that I’ve known for ever since the great recession when I was going back and forth to, to try and find work blue. More your planted don’t worry so much about what you don’t like find the things that you do. If you are determined to get to new city, make it happen. Don’t be afraid to try it on top of that recommend that you get engaged with a lot of the local publications maybe even get in plugged in with chapters of the associations you belong to maybe there’s a local chapter their greatest ours. Start planning your trips based on. Hey, there’s a chapter meeting for this, and there’s a meeting for that. So not only do these networking things. But I also have all these group of ants so you can optimize your time, great idea. That’s exactly what Katy did is she came to town. She went to breakfast club. And she went to these other things met with Cleon and did all the all the things here locally, and she, you know, it took her some time to find the right position, but she found the perfect position for her. And again, we’ve said it we in fact, we talk about an end the. Enemy of network in conversation about the fact that they want to see you more than once before they trust you, if they see you coming back. They see that you are investing your time in the association in for the local chapter. They are going to take seriously. When you start talking to them about jobs, we do have a free download for you Scott, just mentioned, it, thankfully, that is the Inada me of networking conversation. If you go to the website where the show notes, and everything is located at job seekers. Radio dot com forward slash zero four nine. You’ll see a box there that you can click on to actually download this free resource it a walkie right through all the steps that we have put together this document to make it easy to do something. That’s for most people really scary. I would encourage you to download that free resource. It’s our gift to you for actually listening all the way through this. That’s right. The podcast. I appreciate that will thank you for joining us for this episode of job seekers radio. We want to acknowledge your investment time, and your attention is greatly appreciated head over at I tunes and subscribe to get future episodes. And while you’re there, we’d be grateful, if you’d leave us rate and review your feedback actually goes into future podcasts. And if you have any questions at all we’re happy to answer those questions. So give us an Email message on the website or leave us a review on itunes and we’ll respond to those messages. Well, this is Andrew and I’m Scott until next time seek, and you will find knock and the door will be open to you. Thanks, everybody. Take care.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Getting passed over or not hearing anything back from an interview can be frustrating. Identifying the “why” behind a rejection  can often be summed up in the measurement of trust between a hiring team and a candidate.

Andrew and Scott talk about the ins and outs of building trust with hiring teams.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Which would you rather have: love or trust
• Why trust is the foundation for positive relationships
• Expanding your circle of trust
• The role of trust in getting interviews and offers
• Attributes to emulate: consistency, truthful, integrity, authentic, trustworthy
• The time needed and the efforts to deliver predictable behavior
• The value of 3rd party referrals and endorsements
• Expanding your reach within affinity groups
• Rapport building skills
• Helping the interviewer experience
• Building others confidence in you to get to the next step
• How to be curious and ask questions
• Measurements of trust

Resources (including affiliate links)

Adam Grant Podcast – How To Trust People You Don’t LikeMudbay – Pet Store 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

0:00 – 05:01

Today, seekers radio were actually accessing, one of the most critical things you can take advantage of, in your search where you’re working or not. And that is building trust with hiring teams whether it’s getting interviews or getting offers. Yeah. Trust is the basis of a relationship of a positive relationship. I think I’ve said this before, but I remember years ago when I was in college, the instructor asking us, the professor asked us, which would you rather have love or trust? And of course, most people raise their hands when he asked about love and his point was, I would rather have someone trust me because I can love you and still not trust you that a relationship is limited if I trust you and love you that relationship. Is unlimited. Trust is really the basis now if you really distrust, someone the chances are pretty good that, that relationship will never be as fruitful. It will probably end at some point is kinda like meet the faulkners, right? Yeah, there’s, there’s a circle of trust, and it’s likely each one of us has a circle of trust that is kind of a joke. But the idea is probably more people that you trust fewer people that you trust than those that you love. Yes. And if you think about the van diagram, and that the different circles that you have, whether that you’re working Byron meant plus your home environment. Plus your, your outside social environment. Those are three different areas and you’re looking to stay in that sweet spot, that’s going to be true even of different teams at, at work, or if you’re not in a job right now, the different people that you’re your networking with all of that is going to play a part it’s building the scope, expanding your area of trust to include more people and that takes what is trust? Think about that for a second and just kind of wrap your head around that Scott, as we start talking here. What I mean by what is trust is not in a definition kind of way. But what is trust when it? Relates to hiring somebody and what is trust when it comes to getting interviews or going from an interview to offer phase? What are the components that we can talk about that relate to trust in one of the things that I always think about his consistency and consistency in terms of your, your resume, your linked in profile the way, you’re presenting yourself, personally to another human being on hiring team being consistent throughout and I’m a firm believer that the only way to be consistent in that way, is to be truthful. I, I know you, we hear all the time about people. Oh, well, she interviewed well, and what’s interesting is to see how the person who didn’t necessarily present himself or herself, authentically, and honestly, in the interview, and they did really well and they got the job. What their trajectory then looks like once their reality becomes visible, and I’ve seen more people. I it’s not a hundred percent that they don’t last. But. I’ve seen more people not last in those jobs, once it became clear that the alignment wasn’t real, and that is unfortunate on every possible level. Like a faux alignment alignment. It is magnum integrity, it, it’s not a good place telling the truth, having consistency integrity filled correspondents is what we’re talking about there. And often, we think of trust is this big overarching thing, where, hey, I have to be able to rely on you to save my life. Kind of thing or if I die, I’m gonna leave you my kids kinda thing, but if we’re talking if we’re talking job search it doesn’t need to be that sophisticated to be realistic. You’re not going to be talking about a trust of that death either. But you do have to be offensive in order to be trustworthy. Now, of course, we’ve heard the quote in order to make someone trustworthy. You have to trust in that, that is a two way street. I have to make sure that I’m being honest enough. So. That the way I show up on the job or at my next interview is the same how I showed up today, that is just the basic level of trust. And when you think about there are two different kinds of trust the one that is associated with thority versus the one. That is earned the one that we stick to or stick with is the one that’s earned. And that takes time it takes effort. It takes that authentic city to know that I’m going to be able to predict your behavior based on what I know of you so far because it’s the unpredictable ones the ones that we can’t trust that we can’t rely on in the future.

05:01 – 10:06

And that is the whole point of trust in the workplace and that brings me to math. I know you like math and knows sure I do if you look at objectively a hiring process, there’s typically hundred plus roughly speaking applicants in the only pick one. Many of those people are falling in the category of stranger. Nobody on hiring team at the company is gonna know them until they come. Let’s say to interview, but many people don’t get to that base because what don’t they have they don’t have a known commodity position with hiring team now? I could be something as simple as me saying, hey, you know what you should look at Scott. He’s really good at developing teams and organizational development and he might even have a customer focus because he comes from hospitals. Now, I say that on your behalf you’re now known commodity, even though they don’t know you, correct. Well, and there’s also the idea that as that network continues to expand that podcast that you turned me onto just a little while ago that talked about trust in the workplace and one of the things that one of several interviewers that the punt caster was speaking with made the comment that we. Automatically look for Finnity. We look for people like us, and that is just part of the human condition. We automatically trust. People who look like us, who sound like us, who behave like us that affinity touches the rectal, Ian part of the brain that says, I can trust this person because he looks like me or he behaves, like me that, that’s normal. We have to consciously think beyond that one of the points that this person was making was in networking or company. Mixers people. Don’t mix. They stick with people. They already know. So they’re really they’re, they’re maintaining their fought bumble and they’re not breaking through that almost like tribalism. Right. So talking about tribalism I think about the interview of the gal who was the lead actress, in the original plan to the apes movie back in the seventies, how when they were in costume between takes and especially on lunch breaks, and interested in there were people of different. Ethnicities and races and backgrounds in similar costumes. So you have for example, black people who were playing the different kinds of apes. And the black people weren’t congregating in lunch. It was all the Ranga tans and, and it was the costume, you rack because in that moment they confiscated with those who looked like them. This is a natural instinct and not just for humans, but for most species, right. Birds of a feather flock together. So when we think about that affinity, and we think about, how do I expand that, that means I have to be flexible in my ability in presenting my values might behaviors my knowledge, whatever that looks like so that I can present it to show that I can fit that, that, that alignment, now the another point that he makes is we’re talking about contribution to the organization, not just fitting in that we should be able to add something to it. So now we’re able to help other people expand their. Our network. The third party validation is good. Connecting with people that are similar to us in a similar way, so that we can build rapport, yet reports just a feeling of affinity. Right. Think I’m accepted and that’s an easy thing to do. Just by using your name, Scott. Right. Got it. Yeah. Thank you. You’re welcome than so manners. Is a great way to build trust being cordial saying, please. And thank you, and you don’t have to be perfect. I’ve talked to people who say, oh, well, you know, I don’t really know all the etiquette, and all that you don’t have to what people respond to the effort, if they see you making an effort to do the best you, can they will help you do. Better reminds me of a story, we actually rescued a puppy. In fact, she’s trying to get into the podcast studio right now from the outside. So it’s kind of a hilarious that way, the people that we adopted this dog from actually said that we should get. Our dog food from from a place called mud bay. I never thought it was a place that you could fit facial, you know, maybe a mudbath or I don’t I didn’t know what it was. So they had a rescue event or dog needed in additional vaccinated. So we just showed up there and everything at that point from that introduction that one recommendation from one person got us into the store. Okay. So that’s just like the job search all it takes, his one person one interaction to say you should look at this person, right? And you could be having an interview now, everything after that is certainly up to you.

10:06 – 15:03

What I noticed when I went into that store, added to my trust in the organization right, by the way they treat their customer. They walk them around. They show them solutions to their problems that just elevate escalated my trust organs, because it’s validating what you’ve just been told my partner, and I just had exactly the same kind of scenario where we had been referred to we were looking for new barber. We both have. Substantial beards. We want to have them looking. Nice mainly because we’re getting married in a few weeks, and we were looking for somebody who could got it together. Yeah. Who skilled at this? Right. And so I can’t act friend of mine for a referral who referred me to the guy. We went to today and everything that happened in that in terms of how we the job that he did validate my friends recommendation, but what’s more and this is where ties into that job experience the experience, we had with the barber with his colleagues with the place that the, the storefront everything, not only validated the, the recommendation, but we had such a good experience. We want to tell other people about this business. It was such a positive connection all the way around with all of the employees. It was amazing. It was beyond an experience that I would expect. Ended of a barber. So when we apply this to the job situation when we get a referral, whether that’s all I want you to interview this person, or, oh, this is a company. I know you should apply. Maybe it’s this is the company where I work, we have an opening that you’d be for now, the next step is either going to validate or refute that recommendation, if we can take advantage of that use that as leverage to put it out on the table. This is what has been said, this is these are now my expectations of how entered this conversation should go. And that person is also prepared and aligned and everything goes, well, you’ve got a really good conversation going, and that’s why we talk so passionately about network. It’s an opportunity for you to have repeated interactions, where people feel more in more confident to recommend you to people inside their network that they otherwise wouldn’t. Due for a total stranger, and we’re not talking about, hey, you should invite me over for Sunday. Suppers you know you should’ve let me to your kid’s graduation, whatever that looks like that’s what we’re talking about. We’re talking about repeated enough interaction with somebody to establish consistency so that they can confidently say, yes, you should talk to this person. Now even better, if that’s a hiring team and a hiring manager yet because now I’m not only at the interview I met the negotiating table. Well, and there are ways to make that happen. I always think about the gym. In fact, I think I said this in a prior podcast, going to the gym every single day. That’s when people start to talk to you because they see you everyday. You’re part of their world. This is where I make recommendations to clients to get more involved in their industry associations, or whatever the local chapter of fill in the blank, so that people Toastmasters another good example, the idea that they say you consistently coming in. They. They start to associate the thought of reliability with you that kind of trust takes time. But once it’s Bill and you can sustain it that is the kind of trust. We’re talking about in the networking, and job-seeking environment, and it’s funny that we brought up the hairstylist in the mud bay example, because really I look at the touch points for for me to build that trust with that brand was not very many and it wasn’t over a long period of time. So don’t think that just because you think it should take time to build all right trust, we only need enough trust to get to the next that, that set that you’re absolutely right. And in most cases, it could be the second visit that you, you start to have the conversation be open to it as it comes different people extend that openness of trust at different speeds in speaking of mud bay. I’ll just put in another blurb for them. We didn’t actually have a referral to them. I had passed the local one, the one in cedar mill Oregon. I passed it several times, finally, well, let’s just go in and had such a positive experience because of all the touch points. They had within that first experience different services. They offered the way they, they explain you can return it if it doesn’t work that they are looking for solutions for you, as we think about the job, seeking experience your first conversation with someone you can actually, if you’re focused on how you can help solve their problems. It’s not that we have to look for their problem.

15:03 – 18:28

So we consult them it’s being open to how can I serve you? How can I focus enough interest in your needs? In order to try to fulfill them, and that’s another way to build Trump’s yet by demonstrating empathy and compassion by being interested in something other than yourself in your need for employment. Right. That’s a huge trust builder. See, now, I know that you’re not selfish right egotistical, whatever that rush. Like if you ask questions that show that. You are curious about me. I’m going to trust you even if you already know the answer. Sure, you might even know the answer ready, but because you ask the question. Yeah, elaborate, I know you’re building trust with me. Absolutely. That is why we highly recommend, you download a free resource. What could that be Andrew? It’s the Inada me of networking conversation, and it’s free to download on job seekers radio dot com. This is something that we hope will be valuable to you. We want you to get in there. Go to I tunes, give us a rate in review, and give us feedback on how that is helping you if there are things that you want to hear from us. Please ask us for it, because that can be the content for future episodes, as well part of this process to, which we hadn’t hit yet. Scott is measurements of trust. And often you don’t know whether or not you have the trust. And the one way to know that you’re getting trust with hiring team. Are you getting the interviews? Are you getting interview to offer case, there’s always at tangible outcome to whether or not you have trust? And this explains almost all of the time, I’m not gonna say every time Ramos all the time why one person gets the job. And the other one does not is because that person has some relationship, where somebody’s got their thumb on the scale to the, the result in that person’s direct shore. And, and that’s something that we can’t necessarily control I will say that there have been times when I’ve seen the person who has all of the right thumbs on their scale come in second. Because someone else knocked it out of the park. And I think that this is something that if we’re looking at building trust. I, we have a better chance of hitting that homerun part of that is you’re going to increase your probability. Of success. The more you interact with these teams in the more you get third party validation. And the more that you create a consistent presentation of your personal and professional branding messages is gonna create a good environment for you to be successful as a job seeker. Absolutely. Well, that does it for this episode of job seekers radio, you can get all the show notes and resources. We mentioned at Jobseeker’s radio dot com forward slash zero four eight while. Thanks everybody for joining us for this episode. We appreciate your investment of time your attention, and we will be grateful for your feedback. Well, I’m Andrew and I’m Scott until next time it doesn’t matter how how much you know, until people know how much you care.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Having confusion and doubt about what jobs are available for your skills is normal. Discovering how to find the “right” position that leverages all your strengths requires deliberate planning and self awareness.

Andrew and Scott discuss ideas around finding what jobs you would be qualified for and how to find them.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• How to determine if you are a fit, or not
• Finding roles and job postings that align with your strengths
• Feeling qualified versus being qualified
• Relative accuracy of job postings online 

Resources (including affiliate links)

046 When Your Dream Job Does Not Pay WellWhy You Can’t Get an Interview 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

0:00 – 05:07

Jobseeker’s radio. I’m Andrew and I’m Scott. This production is meant to provide you the listener meaningful support to land, great careers faster. And that’s why they’re you’re working or not today on job seekers radio. We’re talking about what job. Am. I really qualified for this is coming from the perspective. Scott of situations where I’ve had candidates, they come to me. They have a list of stuff, right? Skills, strengths experiences education all that. And they don’t know where they fit in the marketplace. And so this podcast episode is revolving around, how do I understand based on my current situation? What I’m qualified for in the marketplace. Maybe I’d been in a role or a company for a long time. Right. Whatever that long time means so they’re two prongs to this. First of all, there are those who they know the. Kind of job, they want, but they don’t think they’re fully qualified for it, but there’s also what do I do, when I just don’t know where to go, and we’ve, we’ve already talked and prior podcasts about how do you make choices about career and how do I pick a direction, and we can refer back to those prior podcasts for some of that thinking, but really, how do I determine what I’m qualified for? I will always direct clients back to what you want to do with what really drives you? And if there are several different things that drive you several kinds of work, then pick one, try decide, what that looks like what the end result might be. And then we can talk about how do you qualify currently. And how do you build skills to increase that qualification? But all of that is workable. We had talked, I think before the podcast came. On I might’ve even shared this in a prior episode. But there was some research done that said the odds of getting an interview are the same. If you meet fifty percent of the requirements versus about ninety percent there was no recognizable increase in your ability to gain from blind application. Of course, is we’re not talking networking at this time. But I think that’s validation for me that anything is possible. I would agree. And I encourage you, if we focus on what Scott said, we just talk about the drivers things we wanna do often our audience, the hiring team whoever it is were talking to about our drivers are going to say, I think you’re a fit for this, okay? Now, I just had somebody validate first person what my drivers are translating to in their organization. And I think it’s really important before you. You go into any kind of employment conversation is to know what those drivers. Are you have to be able to speak clearly concisely about what matters to you with right? If you don’t know what you’re looking for. That’s gonna show through. I mean, in our breakfast club meeting, we’ve had people come in, and, and we ask at the beginning, okay, what’s your story, and we have them start talking about what they’ve done in the past with they’re looking for in the future. And neither of us get and ideas of what they actually want to do. And I’m I’m hard pressed to help someone who is just standing there. Wait at saying, tell me what to do. I can’t. If someone doesn’t have the ability to talk at least about, what is it that they’re working on in the moment or these are the things that drive me? And I’m looking for work that will fulfill these and give me an idea of what their future could look like I’m not sure. I’m going to be able to connect those dots with anything. I might have within my organization, and that that’s an issue and it’s funny. You mentioned that because I remember this week in breakfast club. There was a gentleman there that just kept talking about all the things he had done. It wasn’t until we uncovered his interest in fixing things and coffee. I like fixing things. I like coffee. I said, why don’t you just go do that? Right. He had a long history of working in technology or remember what I’d have to go look it up. But right. A long history in something that really wasn’t inspiring me to connect him to an opportunity in that domain. Well, and has faced let lead up when you said, why don’t you do that? I don’t think the thought had never crossed his mind part of what we wanna do in. This episode is to turn that line on. What do you wanna do? Right. What, what motivates you to get out of bed to get out of the house, whatever analogy? Gee metaphor.

05:07 – 10:06

You want to use. The idea is, you’ve got to be clear on that, or at least on part of that, that gives you the ability to speak clearly about it. Because now I can as you’re talking to me start connecting dots on what could you do for my organization, do I know anybody that you could be helping that sort of thing, because that’s what networking is about. Once you have that, then you can start looking at, what are the things that I have expertise him went to have education in, and it doesn’t have to be direct as long as it gives you some facility within the role that you would be playing when you look at the job description in a job posting, I’m here to tell you, I know HR professionals who will be cringing, if they hear this, because it’s an indictment of their work, but I’ve worked at for many year truth is the truth. Yeah. Most of the time, I’ll just leave it vague with most out of respect for them, most of the time, the job description, you re read in a job posting is written by HR who knows very little about what goes into that role. Because most of the time, hiring managers, those who have the position open don’t take the time to write it themselves. They have a better idea of what that role actually does in a day in the life. Right. And even then many of those managers have never paid attention to what that role actually did because how many times and I, I’m going through this right now with a couple of clients. They aren’t aware of all of the things that their employees are actually doing because they think, oh, well, this is his job description. They’re doing so much more. And I tell those employee’s, right. You’re right. Your own job description, take that to your boss and say this. This is what I actually do. Because it when you leave they won’t know coming back to when you’re reading the giants doesn’t get to that point. Maybe you present that and they actually give you a raise be nice. But the thing is what you’re reading in that job posting a wish-list and nothing more, I have yet to take a job. Whether it says, a consultant or as full-time employees, I have yet to take a job where what I was doing actually fit the job description completely, and I’m old enough to see. This is an ongoing thing. It’s not anything new. No. And it’s funny that you mention that because I have seen in this is an indictment on HR. They have a hard job, of course, recruitment function gets a lot of heat in direction. Yup. From both directions. And so this is an indictment we recognize difficult job, and that they’re covering a lot of. Administrative functions. There also having so many candidates for every role. It’s hard. I get it. It’s funny though, when I go to some of these postings, that I see I can tell which part is HR half, and which part is it, and I’m like, okay, you read enough of these things, and you can encourage your candidates, people that are out looking for, which on my qualified for, and you’ll start to notice, there’s maybe either at the top, or at the bottom, they’re short sentences that are from the hiring manager, right? You just notice because different language. Yes, it’s for fail. Yeah. Yup. And focusing on that stuff. Well, and for those who really don’t have that sense they either haven’t paid that kind of attention, or they don’t feel confident that they’re reading this is where job coaches really can help because you have that already that skill already developed, so you can actually help them walk through that, too. Identify what, what is real? And what is fluff? It’s one of those things where what do I buy? I Carter the horse honestly doesn’t matter as long as you get both there, there’s a lot to be said for this and having been in the HR field for as long as I have I hold myself to a higher standard than what I hold others, too. But that’s because that’s how I grow if I’m talking to somebody who isn’t truly sure that they qualify. My advice is apply. Anyway. There are two things that can happen. And let’s say you get the interview if you don’t get the interview you’re out, nothing than the time and energy took to apply if you do get the interview, and you don’t feel like you are qualifications. Are spot on ask about what are the expectations of this role K so you can continue to make that evaluation. Talk about the things that you are qualified to do and show interest in a because I.

10:06 – 15:00

Can train you on the stuff? You don’t know how to do. I can’t train you on your attitude and the funny thing is you’d be surprised how many times opposing is on the internet. That was just copy and paste from the last time they did the hiring, and that’s nothing comparable to job that the person is somebody leaves hiring manager doesn’t really have an HR person. They can rely on God forbid, and they put the posting out on linked in or something would it is just a copy. And paste from the old one is not what they’re expecting is just. They needed to get something out there. It’s entirely possible that let’s say best case scenario. The the original job description was accurate. The chances are pretty good that that job has evolved over time to if it’s been a couple months, there suddenly having to redo it, and there are other issues to talk about the evolution of the job needs to be indicated in the job description. If you’re aware of at or maybe you just walk in with the assumption that job description isn’t going to be as accurate as it could be. You can ask how has this position of all over the last five years now you’re gonna get an idea of the ability of the hiring manager to describe the day in the life. And that is really important information for you so that you can then determine how qualified you actually are. And you can get their driver’s hiring managers drive very true. Whether you’re interviewing or networking, we’re never looks like what are their drivers? What is important to them out of the all the myriad things on that job description that they need? And then you can make a decision. Does that line up with my drivers or you could take that same job, description and say, yes, it’s evolved, but here’s what I also bring to the table. Here’s hi can take that position to a new level this morning alignment with what I really, really wanna do. Especially when you can say what, what, what I really wanna do aligns with what you want to do. Or want me to do downs a good one. Yeah. Seriously? Because when we think about that. I need to express what my drivers are when my style purposes. What, what my values are I need to make those really clear, but they are looking for someone who is going to match theirs in his human nature. We are all self driven. There is nothing. There’s no judgment in that statement. We all have to answer the question. How does this affect me as we look at that as a valid concern? I can now answer that of the interviewer, these are my values and this is how I see my values aligning with yours. So the, my contribution is going to be furthering, your cultural values because if I don’t make that connection and I just assumed they’re going to make that I’m leaving that within their control. And then when I don’t hear back from them. I don’t know. I need to be interviewing the interviewer. I need to make sure that this is a good fit for me. As well as I’m being a good fit for them. It has to be a two way street. And it’s interesting. You mention that because I’m seeing some evolution in certain companies on how they’re interviewing people to eliminate bias in the process. They’re actually having people that aren’t in that group. Do the interviewing that’s interest, which is really interesting. Right. So they wanna see a fit for role outside of the politics and the prejudice of that group. That’s a really good good mindset. I, I just ran recently about a manager leader who has thrown the whole formatted interview out the window and instead he brainstorms with candidates. He brings them into room with a whiteboard hands than the pan and says, talk to me how you would approach solving this problem. He gives them a problem that actually existent one that they found a solution for. But how would you love this? Because now you’re getting a really good idea of how this person thinks what their values are in terms of their contributions. And it gives you a really clear idea of what’s it gonna be like to work with this person? And what I liked about that I wouldn’t throw the whole structured interview out the window as he did the role. He was looking to fill actually that, that applied. I look at this as how can I add value to the interview process, because I want to know how that person works that person thinks how they approach a potential problem or something for which is solution is necessary if I know what my values are, and I can see them in this other person as the wheels are turning their head. I’m gonna get a truer version of that person than just the interview would show. Right.

15:00 – 20:08

And that’s really how we would establish whether or not we’re qualified for role precise. Actually go through that interview process. Engage in the networking poll, your audience. I think what most people are struggling with when they say that question is do, I really wanna spend time to pursue something else for which I don’t know whether or not in col-, right? Is maybe a heart issue that anything it’s the heart issue. But there’s also that group who may lack confidence, or they don’t know how qualified, they actually are so going to the interview going through the process, and that can be a mock interview with, with a coach go through the interviewing process because you’ll be surprised at what you actually can do. If you just allow yourself to do it just giving that story out of yourself and on paper or verbalized, or expressed, as you said earlier is really important and therapeutic process for you to determine if it’s a hard thing or not. Well, and as I say, you light up that is what’s going to get to hire you, you one hundred percent qualified and really difficult to work with. And I will I don’t wanna hire you. I wanna hire the person who has fifty percent of the qualifications. The drive and the passion and the interest in the curiosity, and, and the positively to see them stretch. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean thinking about that as the hiring manager, if I could help someone Grosz that brings me joy as well. There’s so much more to it. Don’t not apply. Because you don’t think you have the qualifications probably better than you think. Well, it’s also not ignore Scott. The a number of the folks listening to this podcast might be different cultural backgrounds. Sure, what I found is some cultural backgrounds they don’t feel worthy because they feel that they should have all the skills before they take on a job. I can appreciate that. I don’t know how realistic that is because qualifications come with experience. So if you’re not in a position, that’s. Giving you the experience that you need in order to say you’re qualified. I don’t know how you can never get there. That’s the catch twenty two but I do recognize acknowledged that there are especially in high context cultures that there are certain expectations that the culture says you shouldn’t have to be told this, you should know this, and they’re many cultures outside of the United States where that is absolutely true. I would never so admitting you’re wrong or don’t have an answer is not something, they’re gonna say, right. Yeah, but there are ways to communicate that even. So you need experience in order to say you’re qualified. And so maybe there’s a different way to approach that whether that’s through apprenticeships or through a strength assignment or riot project. Whenever that might look like I will tell you in those high context cultures. There’s also the belief that it is our role as individuals to help other succeed that transcends all. Cultures. If you take that mindset that I am going to help the person who is least qualified to become qualified. I will still higher that least qualified person. So there is a way to do it, regardless of culture, I can’t tell you what’s going to be right for you. Self limiting behavior limits. Only yourself. I really appreciate that Scott because I think what I’d hearing from you to is that the soft skills. The ones you overlook might be the ones that actually get you the job, even though you feel in your heart or your mind or whatever that you’re tangible technical skills. Your direct transferable skills may not be up to snuff if you have these soft skills, good attitude, hard-working, write these things that are just not measurable on a job description or resume offering that you have a higher probability of getting that I would agree because. You can demonstrate that in the interview whether or not they have you go through the motions of doing the job. And I know there are some jobs where they actually take you through test environment of some fashion, you know, and that, that’s fine. That’s probably very important for those roles so many of them don’t, and you have the opportunity to demonstrate those soft skills, and some technical skills, where you are captivating, their interests. That’s the sweet spot. Because now you have an ability to show them how you work. How you think how what drives you and you can establish your contribution to their organization in that moment? Don’t think that you’re not qualified for a role. That’s the first step, this step second step is then to find what kinds of jobs, you are qualified for and that process can be a little more pragmatic, I think, is that once you start cataloging all your.

20:08 – 22:56

Strengths all your skills. All things you enjoy doing leaving out the stuff that soul-sucking, right. Right. We talked about that on the dream job podcast just before this one. But the idea being that by knowing what that is, you have a chance, then to go find it. Go ask people, they’re doing that kind of work. How did they get? There was their career path. What advice would they have for you? You’re working on a project, right? We talked about all these components that surround this on every single podcast episode that we’ve done and often were just trying to position it in a different way, so that we can help you as a listener. Get there actually have success in this process. I do think that it’s important to be authentic and what you’re doing if you really don’t know what your next steps to be, or you’re lost in, in your search this time to either turn to your network or get a job coach and help. To make the decisions on how to take the next step. It’s not that anybody’s going to tell you what steps to take. But you may meet some encouragement in choosing one and taking it. And whatever that looks like I just just do it. Well, in the one tool that you might want to rely on is the networking at any and many people just don’t know how to do the networking piece. The good news is, we have a free resource for that. We sure do it’s called the Nazi of networking conversation. And you can download that on our website for free. You’re welcome moved on that just for you just for you. Scott nine put that together. It’s a free resource a gift for you. Please go to job seekers. Radio dot com. Download that free resource that does it for this episode of job seekers radio. We wanna thank you for joining us on this episode. We acknowledged that you’ve put in an investment of time, and attention, and we really appreciate this. You can get all the show notes and research. Sources at seekers radio dot com forward slash zero four seven while you’re there. There’s actually a link in the show notes for you to click on itunes, you can hop on over there. Give us a quick rate and review. It’s a great way for us to get feedback so that we can make this better production better podcast for you. And it also helps get the word out that were actually out there doing these. We, we wanna make sure that you are getting something value. So we really do appreciate the feedback. Well, I’m Andrew and I’m Scott until next time. Let’s remember that you’re only under qualified or not qualified. If you think so, that’s so don’t let yourself stop yourself.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Chasing the dream job will occasionally fall short in the compensation category. Scott and Andrew talk about ideas and strategies for turning your dream job into a well paying vocation.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• How to handle the interview conversations
• Will the dream job really pay
• Turning your idea into reality even if you are working
• Real life coaching stories

Resources (including affiliate links)

iTunes: Rate and Review

Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

0:00 – 05:01

Today on job seekers radio. We’re talking about when the dream job just doesn’t pay so. Well, right. I think most of us who have been down the career path for any length of time, have run into this at least once. I am of the opinion that we should follow what we truly enjoy. Because the more you enjoy the less feels like work, and the word passion is often used in that sense. Follow your passion! Recently, I’ve been hearing, other coaches talk about how that may not be great advice, and I’m not going to go there, because I really think it depends on the person and what really drives you. If the idea of driving towards your passions keeps you motivated towards your goals. Go for it right? So I’m not going to get hung up on the words. I am of the opinion that we should be doing things that really make us happy, that brings us pleasure. Hopefully brings us joy, there’s a difference there. There is also point where sometimes following that following our bliss doesn’t pay the bills. It’s so funny you mentioned that because I had a conversation with the client actually just this morning about that same thing. And, you know, she was looking at all of the job titles, and job descriptions, going scratching the head. I don’t know what I wanna do will just tell me what you enjoy doing. Right. And what part of your job is soul sucking, and what part of your job is like, soul affirming, and creating and right. The gives you joy, and you have a smile, every time, you do it and often people don’t go back in look at the definition. Passion, and really, if you looked at the definition at something that’s worthy of you for, which you should sacrifice that you’d be willing to sacrifice to pursue it. And I think if that is your definition as you’re looking for that job. The sacrifice can be money as long as you’re paying the bills, right there. There is a breaking point. And sometimes we have to put off that passion. But that doesn’t mean we have to stop making it our goal we can still be working towards that. And keeping an eye on that, for those who do vision boards or other activities that help keep our minds focused on our goals. Then by all means put that on the vision board. Put it in, you know, this the sticky note on your mirror, whatever that looks like for you keep going, don’t sacrifice your future based on what you’re doing for today. So that’s the caveat that I generally give the other side of that. And. Not meaning to get into the negative right away, but just to help people stay of Jackson when, when they’re working on this. If you are taking job because they say, all the right things they say they believe in all the things that you believe in and you take the job knowing that you’re going to be underpaid whatever that looks like then you have to take responsibility for the outcomes as well. I have this has happened to me, a couple of times in my career where I’ve taken a job where they say, all the right things, and they, they really try to show me that this is what they believe in. Right. And they are values and I seem to be in perfect alignment with those values and over time. I realized that what they do, actually isn’t really an alignment to what they say they believe. And so now I’m working people that I no longer trust, because I trusted them to. Live what they believe at. No point is this truly their fault other than they’re not being authentic. They’re not in the interview, not in the right, right. So they’re out of integrity or consistent exactly from the interview to what’s really the job, right? Which is something we this is obviously why we encourage so many people to engage in networking. Because in the interview everybody’s gotta game face on. They want you to like them, and you on them to think you’re qualified to do the jar etcetera. And if you’re lucky enough to find something that, you think is a dream job than boy when the stars aren’t all in alignment, they’re financially speaking, that you have to make a choice, right? And there are things that you can do if you make the choice to take that dream job.

05:01 – 10:02

There are things that you can do to supplement your income. We, we hear about it all the time. Lansing, gig contract gig economy. All of that is available to you and the whole point of taking the dream job is if you truly get joy out of it, if it brings you energy, then it doesn’t feel like work. So you have the energy to do that second job or to do that extra gig somewhere around. Right. So you can have the finances to be stable, exactly or what have you. So when, when I’m talking to people about taking that dream job, generally speaking, that dream job also fulfills them from a style position. So if I’m really detail oriented, and I live in the weeds, I love doing research. I’m probably not going to be as happy taking the job as company spokesperson right out of water. Right. Because this spokesperson needs to be able to think in the big picture frames now, if your style purpose isn’t there, but you’ve learned how to do. That really well. And you can succeed doing that by all means. Go for it. If you really are driven by crunching, the numbers, then you probably going to be happier in the job, where you’re crunching, the numbers the dream job generally alliance with your style preferences when you get into that job and things are going, well, and you’re doing work that you really love. And then you find out later that the company is not as it was described to you. Now, you have another series of choices to make as long as the work continues to be fulfilling you can keep doing it, this is choice. You are now choosing to do work that you love for a company that you don’t part of the process that I see Scott is some people get in this position or this mindset, that, oh, the dream job, yet it exists, but nobody’s gonna pay me to do that. Right. So they have this limiting belief and they’re making. Assumption without actually holding the risk at arm’s length. Yes. And that’s totally understanding understandable. So I don’t know that we’re gonna approach that here on this podcast. I think the thing is, is that when you find the dream job and you’ve actually interviewed for the dream job, and now it’s down to brass tacks, and they’re giving you an offer, and you look at it near gone really. Right. Pays that right? I, you know, certainly we encourage everybody to do research on salaries, in, of course, understand that you’re not gonna get necessarily every time an accurate picture of what the salary will be. Now, hopefully if you’re in the interview process, you can ask, what is the salary range budgeted for this position? And if the person comes back to well, I don’t know, I would challenge the truth in that generally, HR and the hiring manager have an idea of what this position should pay. When they’ve said that to me, that’s a that’s an indication to me that this interview is not going any further and that’s fine. Because now I know that I can’t wrap up the conversation and maybe I’ll get another half hour back in my day. And really, that’s why we always encourage at least my clients deferred they’ve salary, conversely, at a salute as long as possible. Right. Yes. Because the more that they have bought into you as a solution, and that fits in with your dream job aspirations, the rare likely they are to negotiate or go back to the well, and get additional friends or whatever that looks like on the back end. I totally agree. And I have actually said to people when they brought up salary early in the conversation, I, I make a joke of it. And I say, oh, does that mean we’re already into salary negotiations? Is this the offer? Yes. Where’s the offer and the generally laughs about this? But it gives me time it also gives me another chance to connect with them on a different level. So because that is the information I need to know what are they really liked to work with. So if I can throw that. And sidestep that part of the conversation, I get a better idea of, is this truly the? Dream job. Or is it just the story? And I and I remember years ago, the story of a young woman who is who she loses her life unexpectedly, and it was a mistake. And she gets to the pearly gates and Saint Peter tells her listen, this is on us or sorry. This was an error, so we’re going to give you a choice. We normally don’t offer you can either spend eternity in how or you can choose to spend it in heaven. But we are going to give you one week to spend in both places so you can make an informed choice and she starts by saying, well, I don’t think I really need to experience it. I think I know. And he’s all the same were going to give you this chance.

10:02 – 15:12

So takes her the elevator. She goes down the doors open to hell, and it is beautiful. The weather is perfect. She it opens up onto a Gulf horse. There’re all her friends in great close. They have all kinds of foods. She plays eighteen holes. Everything is. Great. It is a wonderful experience. And this is the whole week, right? So then takes the elevator. Spins a heavenly week in heaven. And so at the end of that second week, Saint Peter comes to her and says, okay, it’s time for you to make your choice. And she says, I can’t believe I’m going to say this, but I think I’m going to choose hell because I had such a great experience and said, okay, if you’re sure, because you can’t change your mind. No. I really think all my friends are there. It’s going to be great. So he sends her wishes her. Well sensor back down on the elevator. And the doors open is everything you expect hell to be the fire and brimstone thing. And they’re all of her friends, but now they’re in rags and same shows up and says, oh, well come she said, what happened the close the food the Gulf, the weather. What happened? Oh, that was the interview now you’re higher. How many of us have had that experience on the job? Right. Knowing that story and. I still run into that experience from time to time. That’s human nature. We want to put that game face on. We want our potential employees to feel good about choosing us because, you know, something as hiring managers we take personally to that’s why hiring managers don’t want to be interviewed. They want control over the conversation taking that dream job is really an act of faith, and hope it’s an a demonstration of your own confidence. Don’t confuse the change from the dream job to the nightmare as necessarily their fault. We made a choice, right? We get to choose a lot of what happens with our careers. If we are keeping an open mind and understanding that the people, we work for are also human, and they may not have been completely forthcoming with some of the negative stuff, we can have make a less than perfect. Job into something better. I always get to that point in love this story, by the way, it was great. I think it also applies to people that are actually working because a lot of the idea, here is that you’re going through a process you may be identified something. That’s good for you. But this could also happen when you’re on the job. Absolutely end. If you get a new leader or you’re trying to make an upgrade into this process to something better more in alignment with what you think the dream is. And I think really, it’s a process by which you need to make sure that that role does relief check, all of your boxes and that you ask some extra questions or in the interview process to make sure that you have ballot Asian, I’ve talked to people, and I suppose I’ve done it myself where you take a job where it doesn’t check all the boxes and you hope that the extra boxes are going, the unchecked bugs, his bigger actual check box, if that’s the case, then I strongly recommend that the candidate say. These are all of my goals, and this job will fulfill these this part, I would like to explore as as our relationship builds the possibility of checking the others. And that way, if they opt not to choose you because you have other goals that is actually a good thing, doesn’t feel good in the moment. I understand that been there, they have done you favor by not letting you take job that is going to underwhelmed. You later that also is not good for them. Well in what I heard there, Scott is that you really believe, and I think every candidate should believe it as well that you need to stand up for yourself and Selena hiring process. Here’s the thing. It’s always self selecting if you stay on four something in that company doesn’t provide it, it worked out. Yeah. When you say -actly, but on the flip side. If you don’t see end up for something then you don’t have an opportunity to actually do it. Once you stand up for it, and you say you wanna do this then. You get the chance to do it. When we go into these interviews. We tend to feel like the dog because we have none of the control right? Well, actually we do. I make a point whenever whether I’m interviewing potential client or a potential employer. This is a two way interview. And if they don’t provide me enough time to answer to ask questions. That is an indication of their maintaining control. It’s possible that they may be that controlling if they’re your employer as well. Personally is not something that I enjoy. So I probably wouldn’t be as happy. There is a place that is really more trying to understand what my goals are, and how that can contribute to them rather than what am I gonna do for them? Those are two very different approaches to interview and the experiences, therefore different.

15:12 – 20:04

If you have the latter experience that is saying, oh, no. What are you going to contribute to me, and looks like the dream job? But you’re not sure. Sure the chances are pretty good. You’re going to get disappointed down the road because they’re really not focused on. What’s good for you? If instead that interview is about okay candidate. What are you looking for? What are you trying to do? And when people say, oh, where do you see yourself in five years? Well, if I knew that I’d be rich, right? No. That is my opportunity to talk about personal goals. What do I want to do with my career? And how can my employment? They’re satisfied that. How can you help me as I help you look at this as a step toward that? Yeah. And, and it’s an opportunity for me to actually paint a vision. And if the Vision’s in alignment with what they need, even better executives could actually elevate that role to something that does pay well precisely because they are going to tap into the fact that you’re talking about something you really want that is what motivates hiring managers recruiters into hiring people. When they see that true, deep seated interest start to come out and you light up. They want that it’s compelling. I and I think to just based on what you said, is we never know, the dynamics of the organization, or the reorganization or succession planning, we may be offering them something they had in the back of their mind. That is now in the front of their mind because you brought it up, and they’re saying, wow. Well, I was gonna hire for not only this role that one we can get to do two for one. Wow. Okay. So now I can go, she ate a salary for myself compensation package. That’s what I want, or at least closer. Yeah. Because the last time I interviewed for full-time job, I was going for a role that I was overqualified for in the course of the interview process, they opened up a new position for me lake Boga. This can’t happen. Taking the job that underpays. In another it self is not a bad thing. There are choices that we need to prepare for and make as they come so that we are in control of our own careers because I will tell you when you’re doing a job that you truly love the pay is secondary. And I tell leaders this all the time, money is not a motivator. The research says up to sixty thousand and that, that number showcase but because there’s a survival mechanism. Yes. You don’t have your needs met. Right. Then it is a motive. Okay. What? No, no. That’s the thing money is not the motivator. It’s what money represents that is the motivator, so with that sixty thousand dollar figure, and that’s going to change based on different parts of the country world. And having the ability to sleep at night, that feed myself that the science. No, it’s not the money. It’s what it represents. But you have to know what your walkaway point is that gives you power. You have to know. What your various stages for the money game really are because that gives you you’re playing cards. You know, when you have the Trump card, and then if they say, no, you know, I understand this happened to me. It was what I felt was going to be the dream job. I could walk to work, and they were going to pay me fifteen thousand dollars less than I needed in order to pay my bills. I couldn’t take the job, even though it would have been a delightful job urva, but all other respect. Right. And working for really great people who cared that was not in their budget. They could not hire me for what I needed to pay the bills. What ended up happening was that experience opened up other doors, because I had made friends along the way I stayed in Tarazona everything it could have safely. If was don’t not apply just because it pays low, if it’s what you truly love, go have the conversation and be up front about that. So they don’t feel like you’re wasting their time either and certainly prepare narrative can take you in the direction you wanna go knowing that it may not work out. Right. And you may end up in a job where it meets. Let’s say forty percent of your needs for for financial but sixty percent of your needs for all the fulfilling things you are looking for. We always recommend. We’ve talked about this before, is it into days economy. You just don’t have the luxury of stopping the search it has to continue not you need to be one hundred percent dedicated or or hundred percent focus, but you should continue your search and tell you decide not to work anymore.

20:05 – 25:04

Yeah. You’re right. We don’t have the luxury of being able to just rest on our current situation because it is going to change and over. Time we’ve seen those changes happen more and more frequently you know that the cadence has sped up when I started working when it was common to see people in their careers for in their specific jobs for twenty thirty years now, people change jobs every two to three years. And that’s on average the fact that I was in an industry doing sales work in the hospitality industry, where it was an expectation if you were in your role for more than two years, people asked you what’s wrong with you. But that was unique to that role. Now. It’s everybody. And so, when we think about taking that dream job, if you can cover your bills and be responsible about your obligations and take the job you truly love. I it’s go for go for it because that is going to bring you fulfillment on more than just the monetary level. And then just start the process over again. Right. Looking for the next phase the next step in that dream. Because my suspicion is as we go through seasons of life, the dream changes. Yes, your motivations changed and, and the needs chain and the needs. The other thing that I been surprised about is how few people actually network within the organization that hired them because you never know what might be happening. I know I can think of a couple of people right up there. My head who have moved up in their company because they befriended, the CEO, not because they were particularly highly better than well. They were very skilled in what they were high skilled at knowing EEO. Well, that was the thing I think of one person particular who really knows her stuff in the role that she played, but she has continued to grow her job, based on the people. She speaks with every day as more people helped her with her visibility because they liked her. And they saw the talents that she was showing them. She continued to network within the organization and now she is at the top of her department. And I honestly I questioned some of her motives, she and I don’t have similar styles. She has been successful. I got a handed to her because she was following what she really enjoyed doing by all means network within your organization now work outside your organization, be sure you’re talking to people who do the things that you do. Or who align with what you really find valuable and joyful, and all these different emotions that you’re peeling. Well, it’s funny. You mentioned that because I had a conversation with a young man this week that it was kinda like that. Same thing. He was in this job. He had gotten the job in it was just like his maybe first foray out of college, and was just the job. He ended up in and he wasn’t inspired by it or yada, yada, yada. I said, how did you get there? We know what happened is. I was working as a frontline person. And I ended up befriending the vice president and I had a conversation with him and told him about my interest in doing quality control, work said, great. So you’ve been doing quality control work. Now. What’s next right said project management. And I said, well, have you gone back and talk to the VP one? No. Not since I started this QC job go back. I had to knock on wood because Hello. If that guy, did it, once, don’t you think he’s going to do it again? And I asked him what, what approach do you think you should take? When you go back and talk to him. If somebody gave you something as nice as job that you are interested in, how would you treat them? What would you say? He said, thank you. Go to. I said you’re right on track. Yeah. You don’t need me as a coach to tell you that, you know, intuitively inside of tasks that you need to go talk to him, say, thank you, let them know about your interests. What you’ve learned in QC job, especially right? Yep. And just say. Thank you. Because that you’re now telling him this is how you have helped me succeed, and that is a great feeling for a leader that they know that they can know that they have had that positive impact on an employee’s life. Of course, they’re going to then help you take your next step because they’re going to get that feeling again. When you come back to, to say all the new successes. Right. This is true of any networking opportunity that you have, and we’d you and I talk all the time about the follow up as you have the successes. It’s important to go back to the people who referred you to this job in the first place to let them know you helped me succeed, and it’s not butter them up. It’s to help them stay strong in your network. And because they want to be strong in your network, and they want to know the rest of the stories, the whole poll, Paul Harvey thing.

25:04 – 26:32

Yeah. Right. They don’t have enough drama in their own lives. So they need some of ours. Well, that does it for this episode of job seekers radio, you can get shown oats and resources at seekers radio dot com forward slash zero four six. Free resource. We haven’t resell, I’ve pretty sure we do, so we have a free resource. What we want you to do is go to job seekers. Radio dot com and download the anatomy of networking conversation. It’s an e book that we put together for you to help you with networking, and to have the make these conversations. He’s in bolt zippy will the recipe book for successful. I like that. Yeah. To cookbook. I like that. It’s got all the ingredients. You need to be success. I love. All right. Well, thanks for joining us, for this episode of job seekers radio, we knowledge, your investment of time, and we really appreciate your attention head over die, tunes, and subscribe to get future episodes. And while you’re there, please rate and review us, this is how we get the word out. Yeah. Of course, there’s actually a link to itunes in the show notes. You make it super easy for you to go over there and participated in that actively. Absolutely. Yeah. So I’m Andrew. And I’m Scott until next time get up get out and get. Connected to people in your net. Everybody.

.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Attending networking events in a group setting can be challenging. Getting results from attending them as a job seeking professional requires some do’s and don’ts.

Andrew and Scott discuss the Good and the Bad from the trenches of networking both as job seekers and as employed executives.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• The components of successful group events from the perspective of the host and the job seeking attendees
• Strategies that work and strategies that don’t work so well when you are in the trenches at a networking event.
• What you control and what you con’t control when you get to the event.
• Evaluating group events and evaluating which ones you will attend again (or not).

Resources (including affiliate links)

Cleon Cox Job Finders Support 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:00 – 00:05:02

Looking to job seekers radio. I’m Andrew, and I’m Scott this production is meant for you the job seeking professional to provide meaningful support to get great careers faster. Whether you’re working or not today seekers radio, we continue our talk about networking from the trenches. Yeah, we’re going to talk a little more about the good and the bad. What happens and this time we want to talk about group events these are the networking events. That may be created by different groups that have different affinities different starting points different perspectives. It could be industry based it could be professional level. Whatever starts that conversation. And they put together an event where people get together these things can go well, and sometimes they don’t go. So well, so we wanna talk about some of the experiences that we’ve had with that. And how to navigate that. Because it’s not always really apparent what the best thing to do. We’re really looking to. Give you some ideas. Good and bad about how to optimize your group experience. And there’s many different types of groups vailable be really clear about your expectations from any group of bent that you’re going to attend and stabs those up front. Absolutely. Every one of these groups has a purpose. Okay. So I think about one that I was involved in years ago that it was really just executives and top management positions. Everything from a director, like department director on up to CEO’s, and they really wanted to maximize the connections made at that level makes perfect sense. There were some good things that came of at some not so good things of it. There’s another group that I have been involved in that has absolutely no limits to who can attend, and you can imagine how many different kinds of people attend diversity. Yes. God, what’s? Really interesting was even though I talked to others. Oh, well, I don’t meet anybody worthwhile. Those I’ve not gonna go. I’ve actually made some of my best friends networking friends from those kinds of groups. And I really think it’s the diversity that makes that happen. You realize where you are in the greater scheme of things, and the they’re going to be people there that have it worse than you. There are going to be people who actually have it better than you. And what can we learn from this as we approach the different group events and think about what the purpose of that group may be if we have an open mind, what may come of that? Then the chances are pretty good. We’re going to get something. Good from it. It really depends on what you put into it. If there are membership requirements, you have to be on a certain level or you have to be able to have X number of contacts. I remember being involved in a group years ago that you had to have at least one. Hundred and fifty connections Lincoln or they wouldn’t allow you in the group. Interesting. Well, because they wanted this to be a networking, and so you had to be able to offer something to the group. It wasn’t just they didn’t want any takers come in. Well, you know in that case, I would be the philosophy. Hey, I’m not going to jump over the bar. I’ll just walk underneath of it. Right. Well, and one of the things I remember talking to the moderator about this. Okay. Well, maybe someone is new to the platform, and they don’t have a lot of connections. But they’re really talented. Why would we exclude that person? Of course, it was the response was because we want them to be able to offer a reach to others who need it. And if he is talented that he’s going to get those hundred fifty and join later. Okay. I will give the moderator credit. He made it up front. This is what those requirements are as opposed to keeping things sort of hush hush. And I really like the type. Groups that have their stuff together for me. That’s value. That’s an expectation. I have when I go to these groups that they’re they’re somewhat organized. I mean, they don’t have to be rigid. What they have a leadership team they’re organized. They have a purpose and they facilitate a program of some kind doesn’t need to be perfect or that perfectionist kind of mentality. But I like to know that when I’m going to this that there’s going to be a return on my investment because I find when I go to these groups I end up making more contributions, which makes me feel good. Yes. But I don’t sometimes take anything away from that. And there’s good and bad with that too. I agree. What you get out of it. What you put into it? And don’t keep giving into these events. If you’re not getting anything out of them. Unless of course, it’s just a fun time. If you know by all means tales and order a who. I nothing wrong with that at the same time. There would be a cultural fit there.

00:05:02 – 00:10:03

You’re going to your values are going to mess with the. The values that you see in place at these events. Whether that’s haywar schmoozing. It’s it’s really just a game here, and we’re gonna make all these connections. And we’ll see where they lead us. And and it’s really just a numbers game. There’s nothing wrong with that. If you’re really looking for deep connection and long-term professional relationships, and that’s the purpose of the group, and it stated up front, and that’s what resonates well, that’s probably going to work for you. But if you’re looking for those deep relationships, and you go to the group that really is just about schmoozing that may not feel so good so pay attention to that. It’s unwise to go in with an expectation that you know, is not going to be that. And if you’re going to a place where you haven’t been before, and you’re meeting group, I can remember vividly a new group that I was interacting with they were meeting at a bar, which was like, that’s no big deal. I’ve met at bars for these kind of things before. And they had a room set aside. But when you win in this place, literally it was like being in the dark the lights were down low. You can hardly see across the room. It was really an this was Scott. This was a professional networking, meaning that’s weird. And it was really bizarre. Yeah. At that leads to a really good point, especially if you’re organizing the event, it’s important to pay attention to whether or not it’s a welcoming event, I think it’s important for anyone who coordinates or puts these things on the leader of the event has a primary responsibility to introduce the new people to those who’ve come in the past that is just the the role of the host, right? The new people are not going to necessarily be the first to put their hand out and introduce themselves and do that I feel bad for the the newcomers who don’t get welcomed in by the leadership. There’s. Also responsibility by those who have been for while and know the other people in the room to reach out and welcome new people. It’s just not good business. Whether it’s at in a workplace or at a networking event. It’s not good business to expect the new person to welcome himself into the environment or herself into the environment. That’s just not. Okay. So that’s how these things can go bad. Yes. You could end up coming to the thing. And it might be a great group of people. But if they’re in their little cliques all around the area and not interacting with other people. If that’s not something that’s in alignment with your core values, you’re not going to be comfortable there. If you set up the event that we’re in our click see if you can get in. Now, you’re going to get the people who actually want that challenge that could be a really good fit. Because now you peel back the layers of the onion to get to the stuff you really looking for that could be really effective. You’re also going to have a more. Group because not everybody feels comfortable doing that. But it’s honest, you’re telling the truth and in telling the truth you build trust. This is that effort that goes into a networking event. Everybody involved needs to have something to do. It’s going to take an effort if you’re organizing it it is incumbent upon you to facilitate those introductions if you’re a regular member, it’s incumbent upon you to be open to those introductions and pay attention. And notice the new people that are in an invite them in if you are the newbie, it’s important that you have an open mind and look for the people who are looking at you and swallow your pride and introduce yourself if you have to because sometimes we just have to introduce ourselves the eye contact move. Yeah. That that’s a new one. Hey, if you connect with somebody by the is you should go introduce yourself to them is that how it works. Well, that’s how. Do it. And and sometimes I’m more confident in doing it than others. There’s a lot going on in that. And we’re not going to get into the psychology of talking to people. You don’t know when we talk about putting yourself out there and really being empathic. You’re putting yourself in the shoes of the person who’s been there? They’re putting themselves in your shoes as the newbie those connections, generally tend to happen organically. I also think about those times where I went to group events, and I just showed up I didn’t really know much about the group. Somebody said, I might I Hugh should go to this thing. Go check it out. Like, I probably should have looking back on it done a little more research on on the group before showing up even if it was discounted a open thing. But, you know, something if you don’t there’s also value in going and just being open to the possibilities because that’s practicing awareness.

00:10:03 – 00:15:15

You’re practicing your ability to go into. Unusual environmental see what you can learn. What is it? The clan always says, meet somebody meet learn learn something and have fun. Yeah. If you can go to every event with that mindset, you’re probably going to get something out of every single one of them. Then we come back to what are you getting out of it? If you put good things into it. And you get a lot out of that one and nothing out of the other one go to that one. Don’t go to the other one until you have nothing left to do. Everything’s open. Right. Very game. But you’ve got to do your part as the attendee while I stress with those who actually put these events on what their responsibilities are and how they can help others as the the new participant or the person who hasn’t broken through the clicks. We do have a certain responsibility. When we go in to your point finding out a little bit about the purpose of the group is the first step you really out of put some research into puts, you know, in that case where it went to the place that was super Dr I probably could easily gone to someplace like yelp. And just looked it up on there and go through some of the photos, just so I could be comfortable to know what that environments gonna look like when I get there. Sure. And the challenges that I have to work within and what turned out happening is. I was glad I took contact cards with me because I would just write notes on the back of a card of you could see enough to right? And so one of the things that I learned was. Oh, okay. Now, you need to get closer to people because it’s dark, and I need to work my way more deliberately around the room rather than seeing across the room and saying, hey, I should go meet that that person over on the other side of the room. I just worked my way through everybody. What’s interesting is if I were to go into a dark room, I would think that this is more like, ooh, I’m looking for my next date, and that’s not in keeping with a business function. So what is sounds like is you adapted in the moment to make this work for you? That’s a skill that not everybody has now if it’s a skill. You wanna work on go? Yeah. Just keep doing that. He reaching beyond your comfort zone, and there’s a quote, and I’m can’t even paraphrase. But the idea is you are going to grow only outside your comfort zone as you’re getting in there, you you want to focus on getting one on one face to face. Meeting with someone after to see where that can go if that’s your goal, and you only have to do one for that event to to meet your goal, then it makes the events, shall we say digestible, it is something you can overcome kind of like eating coal flour. Oh, I love cauliflower. I’m not sure that’s a good. Brussel sprouts. Okay. I like that. But you’re talking. Yeah. Here’s the idea though. I think the other thing that we talked about earlier is decided facilitating introductions, or at least on the prior podcast where you know, we talked about introductions. This is a great opportunity for you to gracefully make transition to the next conversation at a group of end by introducing that person to somebody else. Oh, yeah. It’s kind of like hand off. So if you’re in a conversation with someone that you really don’t think this is going anywhere positive. Hopefully, you’re still thinking about what might be in their best interest. And you see someone else that might be able to help this person. That’s a really good opportunity to transition that person to a better conversation. I’ve also had people that were kinda clingy. So they knew I was kind of a maybe a more confident positive networker. And so they wanted just hang out with me. They didn’t want to go off on their own and visit with other people that can be uncomfortable ’cause they’re hovering, you know, breathing down your neck and every converse. You know, it’s funny because I’ve. Had this both sides of that conversation with others. We we’ve talked about. Okay. So we go to a networking event. Together, we know each other, and what is the liability the disadvantage of sticking together the whole time. And of course, it it’s sort of like, you know, if you go to a bar with a friend, and you really wanna meet somebody you, but everybody who sees you sees that you’re with us other person there every time. Yeah. So it’s like, oh, well that, you know, why introduce myself, obviously, they’re together. Right. The same is true of networking event. If you’re if you’re sticking to closely to someone you’re not giving other people the opportunity to talk one on one with you. Yeah. Let go of your your insecurity. Well, I was thinking the strings Eddie, let just let go and see see where it land another thing that I love I particularly enjoy when it happens to me is. When someone introduces me to someone else, they don’t actually have to know the other person and the story I loved to tell was years ago when I was in the dating world, and I went to a bar dance club with a couple of my best friends, and I happen to see somebody across the room that I thought was attractive.

00:15:15 – 00:19:38

And so my friend said, oh, do you know that person? I said no would you like to be introduced sure? So he introduced me I asked later, so how did you know that person? Oh, I didn’t. If was one of my favorite memories. And I love doing that professionally because, you know, something if someone comes up to me and says I’d like to introduce you to this other person, I have no idea where this is coming from. But I also had no idea where it’s going bless take this where find out where it’s going, and I’m always always open open to this. I think that’s the fun part of networking. I do that. Frequently actually, I’ll introduce people that I don’t know. Right. Or if I’ve been there long enough in meta handful of people, and you know, there’s an overlap. I’ll say what you need to go talk to this person about that specific topic. Sure, they might be able to give you some information or advice on your project. Yeah. So taken by hand, and let me introduce you. There’s a level of confidence when you are making that kind of an introduction that then rubs off on the others and bowl if you are not being the one to do the introduction, then be open to that. Whether you’re someone’s introducing another person to you, or if you are being introduced, and if you’re really brave, even if you’re not really brave I still recommend it start talking to somebody and say, hey, I noticed you. I think you you might have some some interest in talking to this other person and to introduce them and see what happens. It’s fun. Right. And that makes the networking event different from all the others that you go to and everybody’s talking to everybody. They always talked to write it kind of stick to that. It changed living out for report Yari have with somebody. It’s natural. They’d wanna do that? Right. What is gained? If you’re in the same trench all the time. That’s a great point where Suming that those listen to this are in the trenches, right? See if you can get into a different trench, always go in with an idea of what can I learn from this because you are going to have some bad moments things that don’t go. Well, things that you’re not getting the responses you wanted or you’re not getting the end result that you walked in expecting a goal, right? Okay. Not everything is going to be perfect. If you go in what can I learn from that even though it didn’t go. Well, it may be that’s never been. I don’t want to go back to and. That’s okay. No that the less than great experiences aren’t necessarily your fault. They aren’t necessarily the fault of any group or individual. It just may not have been a good fit or it may not have been a good evening. All of this is possible. We all have responsibility. Ladies at group meetings. We just wanna make sure that we’re if it’s a networking event that we are helping people to network going to these group of ants can have the good points in the bad points. Really? It’s up to you to do your part now to make it the experience you want it to be, and I hope that includes having fun. Yeah. And if you get to the end of that event, and you make a decision not to go back. Then that’s okay to just find the right groups that give you the response that you’re looking for will that does it for this episode of job seekers radio. You’ll find show notes and resources at job seekers radio dot com forward slash zero four five one of those resources is the anatomy of networking conversation e book that we’ve done you can download that we want you to get onto itin and subscribe to get future episodes while you’re there. Give us a rate and review and ask us questions. Yes. Be sure that you’re sending calmer. That’s if you’re on a job search ahead. And you’re listening to us. Let us know how things are going for you. We want to hear from you. We wanna provide you support that we think is tangible and valuable if you have a request or any questions is likely we’re going to answer that or use that as a topic for our next episode. So thanks for joining us for this episode of job seekers radio. We acknowledged the time at attention that you’ve paid to us, and we’re grateful to I’m Andrew, and I’m Scott until next time don’t be your own worst enemy.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Networking for jobs comes with a number of pitfalls. Getting in the trenches with other people, setting up these meetings by introductions requires some finesse.

Scott and Andrew 

Don’t miss these Topics:

• What makes a good networking introduction.
• Best practices to improve the number of meetings scheduled with key people.
• What can go wrong during the introduction process.
• Managing the expectations of each party involved.
• Developing your own standards and professional etiquette 
• Understanding the possible responses and what they mean.
• The value and occasional inaccuracy of LinkedIn.

Resources (including affiliate links)

National Business Employment Weekly: NetworkingWhat Color is Your Parachute 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

0:00 – 05:06

Job seekers radio. I’m Andrew, and I’m Scott this production is meant to provide you the job seeking listener was support to find great careers faster. And that’s whether you’re working or not today job seekers radio were really going into the trenches by the trenches. I mean getting into the fray with networking, right? There are good and bad. Right. We we have to learn how to roll with bunches. And certainly if you’ve been looking for work for a long time that gets a little tougher you feel like you’re pushing the boulder uphill. So we want to go over a few things just to sort of keep us on track. As we continue in these trenches know that you’re not alone. There are people in the same boat or in the same trench mixing my metaphors here networking works. Even when you have those uncomfortable moments. It doesn’t mean that networking isn’t for you. It just means that. That specific connection may not be a good one for you, Scott. I have both been in the trenches. And we’ve seen the good and we’ve seen the bad at we’re going to share with you some of the things that we’ve learned through a lot of uncomfortable conversations. And also a lot of good conversations. Really? Yeah. What those look like. And and really the thing that you need to focus on a job seeker is I the introductions right? And so what makes a good introduction? And when you approach this think about what are your expectations. Both in terms of how the introduction is made. And how the the person is responding, and the reason why I start with that is generally when we walk into something that with expectations. We are probably going to be disappointed at the point. I try to help people understand that whatever your expectations are be prepared to have them to be disappointed because. Not everyone is going to respond the way we would. And that’s okay. We are going to get a riot of responses. And if we start looking at what might be behind that what may have caused that person’s specific response. We may be able to gain a perspective that gives them the bench for the doubt. It may. Also, give us information that we want to know that would steer away from that person future. And we’ll get to that. I just really think about baggage. We’ve all got baggage or skeletons in the closet, whatever I like to think baggage because at least minus Louis Vitton right down. What’s in? It. Could be a well, we won’t go with the idea being that we all have things that were going through. You know, I think about the top stressors. And there’s been a lot of research done on. What of the hardest things for people to go through all the first one is death of spouse. The next one would probably be something. Divorce? Right. The third one would be something like moving apparent that’s in the hospital or child in a house. Right, right. There are lots of things up there. So we don’t know because we don’t control that side of the question. We can only control the introduction. We may. And having an understanding an empathy when we make that introduction. If I made an introduction for you wanna find out first, what is your interest in meeting that person? So that I can then confidently make an introduction four you. Yes. This is true. Whether we’re talking about an introduction online like Lincoln. It could be you are networking with someone and their friend comes by. So it’s an impersonal thing, but not necessarily an event and even at a networking event. Sometimes people go because they feel obliged or may be there representing a company, and they don’t wanna be there. They’re just sort of going through the motions. And they’re really not putting their best effort into that event. We don’t have any control over any of that as I think about my networking efforts. And my my ability to make introductions for people who asked me to do. So I really try to keep an open mind and think about best practices as I go on and Lincoln. I think is a good example of the online version, we we have Facebook introductions, we have so many other social media options, and each one has its unique little niche Lincoln is primarily for most people that I’ve spoken to about. It is a business networking site. That that it’s a platform to help people to do business networking. I actually asked the question on my Lincoln’s page, how do you use Lincoln? What do you use it for because I’ve talked to people that I’ve known for several years who are tired of Lincoln because the only people contact them or those.

05:06 – 10:05

Who look for jobs. Well, of course, isn’t that the point yet? But they don’t like that. All it’s okay for opportunity, right? It’s just those things that surprised me. I wanted to know how are you using it? And most of the responses that I got from that said, I use it to network with people in my field or looking for work. I feel pretty strongly at least in my circle that and I’ve got a lot of people in that network. So far, I think we’re still on board that Lincoln is a networking platform for professionals or whatever that might look like whether it’s getting sales leads which a couple of my contact said another one was networking for recruiting because they are recruiters and they look for people on Lincoln. These are still best practices there in terms of best practice when I’m introducing say Scott to somebody that I know I make sure that I think this is something I got from. Way back when I Email. I came out. I went through a training program. That said, hey, anytime, you send a correspondence to somebody. You should be copying all the parties that are included in that correspond. If you’re using somebody’s name, it is far more powerful than to copy that person. So they can verify that. Yes. In fact, you know, them that what you’re saying either about them or about their interests or whatever is accurate a year. You’re keeping everybody in the conversation. And I think that speaks well for both the person being introduced and the person who’s making the introduction. This is where it can go really bad, in my opinion, is that every time that I came in from a position of self interest. And demanded something from somebody. I didn’t know that conversation did not last very long, and it wasn’t uncommon that I would go into a conversation. I lay down my resume and expect somebody else to make sense of. Of my career, rancher and debt didn’t work out. Well, for me, I encourage anybody listening to this session is put your self in the shoes of the person, you’re trying to engage right? What do you think is important to them, and that’s actually two fold? If you make a request of contact to introduce you to someone else put yourself in in that person’s shoes. What would it be like to introduce me to someone else? What would the advantage or disadvantages, and how can I keep the respect for that person intact without asking them to do more than I probably should than the the second half of that? What is the person who is receiving the introduction likely to think about this? And so as I as I set that up in my mind, at least, I can have the different perspectives and be able to speak to those potential responses in a respectful and intelligent way as a job seeker. You’ll also have the. The opportunity to facilitate introductions, even though you’re not working. So you may be in front of somebody. And you meet them, you have a great conversation. But you met somebody just last week that you think would be a good connection for them whether your job seeker asking for introductions or giving them I think that’s a great way to build your network. Yes, is by just you know, just being really open and generous with your connections. And to be honest about the strength of the relationship. You have with some sure if I am introducing someone say, for instance, I’m there’s a job seeker who is looking for a job at a company where I have a contact. But at somebody I haven’t contacted in a longtime fact, I might not even remember why we contacted at the time. But I know that we haven’t spoken in a couple of years. I can then reach out to that person. And acknowledge we have not been in contact for a while. But I thought perhaps you might be good person for this one to network with. With and that you might be able to provide some insight on what this person is looking for. And of course, I will have asked that personnel. Kate. What is it that you’re trying to accomplish here and setting it up? Honestly. So I know that we’re not best friends, but I do have the impression based on my memory that you might be a really good person for this other one to me. And I think that that is complementary. I think it is certainly an expectation that I have that. This is okay with anybody who is on Lincoln the difficulty then is meeting those expectations. What if that person doesn’t respond the way I want or maybe the person? I’m introducing doesn’t follow up the way. I’d like there is an aspect that this might reflect on me. I personally choose not to worry about that part. Because as long as I am being genuine and authentic and honest about.

10:06 – 15:10

My motivation in making this introduction. I should be. Okay. It brings up a good point. Because I Sila -tated a lot of these introductions before. And I’ve seen where people have tripped up, and maybe not approached it in the most effective way. So when I give somebody an introduction. I actually send them a list of things that I expect them to do. Oh, that’s a great idea separate from that message. Yeah. So I’ll send him a Lincoln message doing the introduction and then separately. I’ll send them a message saying, hey, here’s the six seven eight ten things that I expect you to do to improve your chances of having success with this interaction. Right. And keep me in engaged in this happy to to walk through. I think that’s a great idea so develop your own list of expectations. If you’re making an introduction and also live by that yourself when someone introduced to you. So that you get set a standard. Oh by all means. Yeah, I think it’s vital. If we’re going to use Lincoln. Well, it’s it’s vital for us to pray. Actes what we preach. If I tell somebody to do something specific I need to be doing the same sorts of things. Otherwise, it’s not offend tick. And people will eventually see through that the good responses that you get feel good when you get them, and they continue to feel good as long as the conversation goes. Now, I am a big believer in using any kind of social media. Whether it’s linked and Facebook, anything get the introduction in person when you can if you are in the same town have a conversation brief conversation may be one or two exchanges on the social media platform. And that second one ought to be how can we get together and actually meet in person because those are the conversations that really matter the difficulty with online introductions is that you you don’t have the same sense of propriety when you’re there. You don’t have to be polite because it feels more anonymous year at a distance. Arm’s length. Yeah. And so again, I try to to behave the same way online that I would in person and still present. Well, just because that’s going to be the reflection on me. I try to stay mindful of that the nice thing is when that goes well through Lincoln, it’s going to lead to that introduction. Most of the time, obviously, that’s not going to be the case of your trying to network in at a different city across the country that that’s a separate conversation. I don’t know if this is ever happened to use got, but have you ever gotten into a back and forth on an Email or social media trying to set up an introduction. But you you just got so deep into the conversation that never went anywhere. Yes. And you feel like wow. This is a total waste of time. Well, it yes. If in the end does feel like a waste of time. It probably was if you’re feeling like you’re about to go there. Here’s your opportunity. Hey, this has been. A great conversation. I would like to continue it in person. These are the times that I’m available. I will say that. If you ask the other person to tell you when they’re available probably gonna come back and say, well, check my calendar. Get back. Yeah. Instead give them several options if they’re interested. They will either pick one or they’ll say those don’t work how about this. Hopefully, anyway, of course, that leads us to the topic of when things don’t go the way, you expect the way you want when I get there. I remind myself if if it’s happening to me, or if it’s happening to somebody else, I remind them this is not about you someone else’s response is never about you. It isn’t they that the other person say, you know, I don’t like people who are have blonde hair that has nothing to do with people with blonde hair that only has to do with their feelings about it. Okay. If someone does not respond to the introduction. Well. It is not about you. It is simply an indication of how they might feel about themselves how they might feel about their situation. Whatever it is. And if they behave badly, well, that’s a reflection on them. Not you start there. What I would consider to you. Don’t know how many other people have screwed it up for you. You know, some Lincoln and these different social platforms are becoming in in some ways. Assessable? There’s a lot of people on there that are not treating the platform with the same level of professionalism, absolute, and we get to pay the price for that. So the response that comes back to us might not be it may be to push us away. Because we haven’t established yet that we’re not the sleazy sure person. Yes. And I think it’s important to remember that if you are the recipient of that pushback, they may be having a bad time with this platform, and again that has nothing to do with you when I’m talking to people who use Lincoln, especially those who use it regularly or who have profiles.

15:10 – 20:00

They’re in high positions. Whatever you’re going to be judged on your responses, whether you like the platform and not if you really don’t like the platform than I recommend you get off the Platte just for the young count because it happened to me recently. I had asked a very well connected. Friend of mine to introduce me to someone else. I was interested in knowing more about the other person’s company about what it’s like to work there. I had some personal reasons for wanting to know, but I was not the only one I realized that the senior vice president of department was connected with my friends. So I asked my friend to introduce me. And her response was I don’t work there anymore if he likes job he should go to their website or something along that. And I thought, wow, if you are someone I would never want to work based on that one response right now is that accurate? She might be otherwise really pleasant person. She set that up she she set the tone for any potential conversation between the two of us that oh, I don’t work there. And I’m not interested in talking. Okay. Well that had nothing to do. With me. I was disappointed that she didn’t extend some professional courtesy have no idea what’s going on in her world. Well, I I now have an impression of her that probably if I were ever to run into her I probably would avoid much conversation with her because I would expect the same thing. The next time with that sad. Maybe she didn’t understand what Lincoln is four and introduction. Yeah. She sound the introduction of purpose. He don’t know. Well. I wanted to know more about what it’s like to work inside the company, and she certainly would have known what it’s like being a senior vice president, but I would also expect a certain amount of professional courtesy from someone in that position. Now, am I making some assumptions, yes, we do that? And so if we are mindful of that when we walk into these introductions whether were the one being introduced where the one doing the introduction more were the one receiving the introduction all of these gives us an opportunity to shine. And we choose whether or not we shine. It’s not that big of an investment of time. It’s not a great deal of effort to put your best foot forward. Even if you’re not feeling really great about that platform. Every response is an opportunity for you to evaluate that company that person based on the type of values that you yourself represent and in that case what I’m hearing is maybe. A little cynicism. Could be based on that response. It made me wonder what she fire. Yeah. Because okay, it’s great that you don’t want to speak poorly of the company if in fact, they let you go. But it also may be that. Wow. You’re just really difficult to work with and they made a good choice by getting rid of. I get to make up the story in my head. Yeah. Right. Because she didn’t give me a chance to tell her story. And what it was like what a great opportunity to show, some empathy. Sure reach out to her. And just say, hey, here’s the situation. I’m not. Yes. I’m interested in the company, but I’m not expecting, you know, of anything it’s still like to get together and have a conversation Siachen support your efforts to get our next gang while I again, I was just wondering if that was her situation. I did send a response to say. Thank you. Thank you at least for responding. And yes, all I wanted to know was what the day in the life inside was like. And so, you know, if in the future, you’d be interested in, of course, never heard anything back. I did not have a good impression of her. I realized that I’m making up the story as I go along because she’s giving me nothing else to go on. But I’m also not putting a lot of effort shoe continuing down that line because I’ve got other honored in my fire. The other thing that made me wonder is if you’re not working there anymore. Why haven’t you updated your Lincoln? Maybe it just happened. I mean, I don’t know there were so many disconnects in that one introduction talk about when things go bad. I just thought. Okay. Well, there there were a lot of things that could have been done better. If I want to build a strong connection, whether it’s through an in-person networking event or through social media. I can look at the strength of the connection and hand the person introducing me to someone the person being introduced whatever that looks like I can be mind. Full of how all of this may play out without taking a whole lot of time to analyze it.

20:01 – 25:02

Put my best foot forward. And then maybe that connection will grow stronger in time. It also validates the idea that you don’t wanna put all your eggs in one basket. Whether that be one company one person. Sure, whatever make sure that you’re actually reaching out to multiple people. So that when you get a response like that, it’s not the door slamming. Yeah. It all you can do is open the door if they choose to close the door, right? That’s up to them. Well, and when you and I talked about it when it happened to me you made a really good point of. Well, what about the CEO? And I happen to know that they haven’t you CEO, which is what made me think while you bye. Fired. I don’t know there were so many things that were wrapped up in that. And you’re absolutely right. If I could network into a conversation with the CEO that would certainly offer additional conversations with others that he wouldn’t feel were a good connection. Unfortunately, I don’t have any connections to him. The idea is here’s an opportunity for me to continue looking if I want to know more about that organization. The one who responded badly is not the only person that I could eventually talk to will you change the people each changed the company, and you change the people you’re talking to you change the conversation and the opportunity may be exactly the idea. Here is the good is the more siege. You plant the more you’ll be able to harvest later on keep reaching out keep making introductions keep asking for introductions until you get to your destination. If you do get a response that doesn’t feel good. Is we talked about this before we started recording? I try to gain a different perspective. You know, what might that person be going through to your point? We carry baggage all the time. And what that might be affected by the moment. We have no idea it could have been, you know, maybe she did get laid off. Maybe she wasn’t feeling well, or maybe she’s dealing with a sick family member there. So many different scenarios that can affect us where we don’t put our best foot forward. The idea of being gracious about that and just saying, well, you know, if there is an opportunity for us to chat, I hope we have the time and wherewithal to have a good and comfortable conversation. If you’re getting cynicism. Don’t return cynicism as satisfying. If you’re getting anger don’t return it with anger, you need to emulate the values that are important to you. And that process will be self selecting. Yes. That that if that person is not a fit great good to know move to the next one. Because if you’re emulating those qualities those attributes that you want in an employer in a person or a leader or team, whatever it looks like, right? Then you’re going to get that. And obviously takes time to find out if the values that they demonstrate in the beginning are truly what they value. And are they consistent through that? I think everyone has been through a situation where they talk a good story, and you believe them, and you’re in and little by little you see the little things that happen that make you realize you been fooled that doesn’t feel good either. We can talk about that in another podcast. But to your point people, generally value, the things that they ask about the things that they measure that things that they respond to and if you’re paying attention to those you can get an idea of where you fit and where you don’t when you get a bad response or one that doesn’t make you feel good. Remember that that’s not about you. That’s about the other person if you can respond well in return showing what you’ve Allieu whether that’s trust. Whether it’s telling the truth, I’m really not going to use Lincoln for this purpose. I’m not here to network. I’m here to find new sales say that let me know because, you know, something if I’m that kind of salesperson to we might do really well together or I may need to know who you’re selling to. So I don’t let you poach, right? Whatever you can be honest in your profiles. If you’re using social media when you’re meeting in person, be honest authentic about what you really? Value people will see that and respond well to one area or way that this can go really bad is if we focus too much on our circumstance circumstances are temporary. That’s right. We should not lean into a circumstance and project that onto another person absolutely cautious. When you’re introducing or or asking for introductions that if you are looking for work that you’re not positioning yourself as a desperate job seeker. That is interested in in getting sense of their life from another person.

25:02 – 26:58

However, if you want a display honesty, and integrity and truth, then you should probably tell them. Yes. On looking for work. But my expectation is something different. That’s the best approach to take. If I don’t say that I’m looking for where can they find out that? I am. No that leads that opens the door for them to wonder whether or not I tell the truth work. But if I come back and say, yes, I’m looking for work. And this is the project I’m working on. That’s totally. Different different topic. This is why wanted to contact you. Then suddenly that opens the doors that I want to open, but it really does come down to empathy and integrity that does it for this up associate job seekers radio. You can get shown oats and resources at seekers radio dot com forward slash zero four four. We also want to point out that we have a free resource the anatomy of networking conversation. It’s an e book that enter and I put together we want you to download it get something out of it. And then get back onto the website and give us feedback about what you’re hearing. Does it work for you? Does it not work for you questions that you have about all of this helps us to give you what you need your investment of time and energy in listening to this broadcast means the world to us? We’d appreciate it. If you take some time there’s a link in the show notes to go over to IT. Tunes and actually leave a rate and review. It’s an opportunity for us to get feedback from you and spread the word on this this particular production. So that other job seekers can get the benefit that you did. So thank you for joining us on this episode of job seekers radio. I’m Scott, I’m Andrew, and we wanna leave you with this thought your value is not diminished. Just because someone else doesn’t see your worth. All right Bye-bye, everybody. Thanks.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Job satisfaction is a choice. Having an idea of what you want to do can be found by asking really good questions.

Andrew and Scott discuss techniques for being satisfied and finding satisfaction in your work or job search.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Understanding what you really want
• The process of making changes when you are working
• Discovering how to take control of your career

Resources (including affiliate links)

The Power of Now by Eckhart TolleKung Fu Panda QuoteToo Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay: A Step-by-Step Guide to Help You Decide Whether to Stay In or Get Out of Your Relationship by Mira Kirshenbaum 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

0:00 – 05:01

Welcome to job seekers radio. I’m Andrew, and I’m Scott this production is meant to provide. You the listener meaningful support defined great careers faster. Whether you’re working or not today job seekers radio we cover some really sensitive and important topics including this idea of career choices job satisfaction. And the decisions that we make based on our circumstances. I love the idea of how do I get up and out of the circumstances? And I generally start this conversation thinking about the book the power of now by Eckhart Tolle. I have no idea if I’m pronouncing his name correctly. The idea that what’s happening today is only today circumstances. It is not the definition of life or me or whatever. And so as I approach what’s happening today. If I think about the only moment that truly matters his now and the decisions that I make. Now because that’s the only thing I can truly deal with. He he talks about the fact that you can’t do anything about the past because it’s passed. You can’t really do anything about the future. All you can do is what you can do right now today the power of now, and as a result as you think about the circumstances that are happening. They don’t define you. It’s just what’s happening. I can take a dispassionate view of these circumstances and start to look at the decisions that I am making right now extrapolate where they may lead and decide is that what I want that’s a much healthier view than. Oh, well, I’m waiting for my prince to come so to speak, right? Reminds me of quote in Kung Fu panda by Master Oogway who said yesterday, it’s history. Tomorrow’s a mystery today. It’s a gift. Yeah. So think of it that way what we’re talking about. Here really is how to approach this idea of how do. We change the career where in how do we make a good choice. A good decision for us at this time. Right. And how do we generate satisfaction in the job? We had a conversation with someone recently who really didn’t know what he wanted to do. And he grew up in he’s grown up. I totally empathize with that point of view. I’ve had several careers in my life. There are a whole bunch of decisions that I’ve made and they’ve sent me down different paths all of them in the long view of you know, looking back over my life. I realized how one has led to the other. And then that’s helpful even though they’ve been very different. It’s only in that moment of right now. And here he was trying to get an answer for us. Well, what should I do? And we kept coming back to what you want to do. It’s a decision. We have to make individually nobody else can make it for us. So the sooner we can get into that moment of Lau. Why do I want to do that the sooner were actually going to make the progress? We want. See you as a listener maybe in a situation where hey, I’m just using my skills to pay the bills what you’re in. Now. Maybe isn’t what you want. But that’s by choice. Everything is choice. We talk about that. I would suggest if you’re new to our podcast that you subscribe. And maybe go back and listen to some of the prior episodes. So you can get a feel for what we’re talking about. Everybody has a choice if you’re staying in a place that isn’t meeting your needs, professionally fulfilling, whatever that’s before we started recording you and I were talking about this. And I was reminded of a book I read about relationships many years ago called too good to leave too bad to stay. And I’ve thought about how that might apply itself to the job search to to the career in general because there are a lot of times. I got a job I use my skills. I don’t really like the job. It’s meeting my needs right now. I don’t wanna leave it. And there’s fine. There’s nothing wrong with that. I’ve talked to many people. Over my career who have been in a job. They had no intention of getting into and didn’t leave that job until they retired. It wasn’t what they wanted to do. But they made a life. What matters as I talked to people for whom that has been their job trajectory, those who actually see the virtue of the job that they’re in are the ones who are happier about their careers. And I think about my friend Fred who worked for albertson’s while he was like in a grocery store in aggressively store doing what bagging groceries stocking. Backing okay bagging groceries for people, and what struck me I he he did it for a couple years. I think but what struck me was as he was talking about it. He would tell me that one of the things that he enjoyed is the people that he got to talk to he likes to talk to people. He doesn’t over talk. He doesn’t over share. He’s not the braised crazy idea for sales guy.

05:02 – 10:04

Right. Exactly. And and he’s a very skilled salesman. But he he just likes to. Connect with people, and it doesn’t have to be deep conversation. So you think about it? How many hundred people does he see a day? It was not a career. He wanted to make bagging groceries. He’s sauve the virtue in it. And then when he got the job that he was looking for. Okay. It’s working in an industry that sees its share of colorful people, shall we say he sees the virtue in it. And he’s happy doing the work that he’s doing these are the kinds of people that you wanna hang out with right that you want to network with if you’re not seeing the virtue in the job that you have. That’s probably the first place. I’d have seek it out. Yeah. Look at the job taking inventory of what is good about the role you’re in now. What do you want to replicate in the next one? If you look for something you’re going to find if you look for what you’re not getting you’re going to find it. Yeah. We’re gonna be talking about that in just a minute. A couple of things immediately come to mind as I think about keeping your. Focused on the things that you do joy. I also remember some of our listeners are going to be out of work right now, the conversation shifts a little bit during my long term unemployment several years ago. I really had a tough time looking at the virtue of not being employed that was tough because I felt unemployable while with that said there were things that I could do that were rewarding. And interestingly enough moderating job finders group. The breakfast club was what I found and I started doing that. And every other week I was there, and I was leading conversation. I was facilitating breakthroughs for other people. I was having my own you don’t yet. I was finding value in what I was doing even if I wasn’t making money doing it that set me up. So that when I did land the job that I was in a better place, mentally spe- yet mental head space. Yes. In a better because I’m telling you when you’re unemployed for three years. After three years of solid activities looking for work. That is tough on the the mind. Let’s dry streak. Right. That’s like a hitter slump. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Was strike outs. That you you have to get before you. There were some people who were helping me by holding up the mirror making sure that I understood that some of this was based on the decisions I was making at the time. And what kind of message was I sending out there. What kind of attitude was I bringing to the table, and I had to have people holding up that mirror and being honest with me about saying, maybe you could approach this differently that brings up idea around that Scott called external validation. A lot of us are seeking in answer outside of ourselves that we want somebody else to tell us what to do or we want somebody else to say, this is the direction you should go. And I think that’s a challenging compromise. I’ve was in a relationship many years ago where I was being asked should I take this job? She was unemployed at the time she needed to work because together we didn’t make enough that was a tough moment because I told her if she felt good about it. She should take it. So she heard from me. She should take it. She took it and was miserable. And it was my fault because it was never an internal choice. It was always relying on what other people were telling her to do. And that’s how I learned my lesson. You don’t give that advice? You turn it back. What do you want to do? And that’s a hard question for a lot of people to answer this. I’m sure that when actually resulted in a lot of therapy and counseling for you. But. Some later there were a whole bunch of other came from that to go there. Right. I mean, I’m the type of person though, I think I also have enough self awareness to know when I have fear and where that comes from. But not everybody is that way. And so the thing I would encourage you to do is break out of that mindset that your identity or your your circumstances your identity, and it’s not the you don’t have to be a victim. You don’t have to play the sympathy card all the time. If you’re frayed to say, I’m afraid with that allow you to do is he’ll a little bit to your point. If I’m looking for sympathy. And I say, I just want sympathy I can get that my friends and family know me well enough if I were to say, I just want some sympathy right now. Thank give it to me that doesn’t mean that gives me an out later. But okay, you know, Scott, I feel for you. I been there, and I yeah. This is your good, right? That that always feels good being told you’re going you’re doing well it helps us. Right. The problem is when you fall into that vicious, circle, and you start to feed off the victimhood, and I’ve known people in my life. I’m still Brenswick some where for them. It’s all about being the victim because they get their validated through that external source again.

10:04 – 15:01

And they choose to do things they can think of one who does not wanna be a manager ever because he wants to live his life outside of work. So he setting up his career as always being something other than what he loves while he enjoys certain aspects of his work. He doesn’t he doesn’t to Dacian. Yeah. Yeah. Instead, he does things that cost money. And so he uses his lack of income as a way to get that sympathy, and it really after a while you start to realize, buddy urinating. Yeah. You’re you’re doing this to yourself. Why should I feel sympathetic towards you? When you keep making these decisions the person thing when I had that conversation with. Him. He’s usually, okay. Yeah. You’re right. Because he he is self-aware on a certain level. Well, you know, Scott if it was a perfect world, then I would have a perfect job. If I had a CPA, then I could be a consultant for a big accounting firm. Yeah. Well, when we start imposing these conditions on ourselves because that’s a choice. That’s decision. We start putting conditions on. Yes. We can or no we can’t because of some condition that may be valid or invalid it’s still a condition than we get what we expect guess in that way, there were seeking validation externally that what I said was true. What’s the the term for that self filling prophecy? Right. We can absolutely do that. The one thing though, that you mentioned that makes the differences the self awareness piece when I talk to people about their job search or about career in general or even something within. The aspects of the job that they’re doing. And they want some coaching on it. I really come back to the idea of talk to people who will hold the mirror up to you talk to people who will be honest with you about your behaviors and be open to what they’re saying. And there are times when I’ve known people who they just can’t get out of that circumstance. They can’t get up and out. I have recommended that they cease a professional some, you know, social worker friend if they’re gonna keep it something if you wanna keep an informal, but can affair oppressed. Their appeals can help you. If you’re looking for an answer. It will not help you with all you’re looking for is validation, it maybe it would help you. I can’t say won’t necessarily everybody’s different. But those that I have been friends with that just keep going to therapy. If they’re not looking for the breakthrough within themselves. They don’t find out if they are truly looking at what is happening inside . Of them. They are more likely to be able to make the change even if somebody else’s telling them what they observe, but they’re just talking about what the syrup. They’re not saying this is what you should do at some point is much like the twelve step. Right. You need to I admit you have a problem. And then that opens the gateway to all the other steps. Yeah. Until you admit that you need help or that you have an issue or that. You’re mildly even mildly depressed, right because of your circumstance or your victim status than all the help in the world isn’t gonna help you. I would recommend if you’re in a job right now. Most companies have an EA P program where you can get access to therapy. And it doesn’t cost you anything. It comes back to that idea. Have somebody else looking at it? And just telling you what they observe of you, not what is your answer. Too often. We talked to certainly in the the work that we do with job seekers we periodically. But fairly regularly have people asking us. Well, what should I? Do. And that is an question. We cannot answer we could try, but well, we can give suggestion all we can do and just ask questions back to say what works for us. But yeah. To your point they have to live with that decision. I don’t wanna live with that decision much like the relationship you talked about earlier you paid for that decision. You have to be able to do this part on your own mainly because nobody else can do it for you. But if you’re not getting where you need to go get help get the kind of help you actually need if you’re on the job. And maybe you’re looking for something better. Let’s take it from that perspective here on the job. I’m using my skills to pay the bills, and I need to make it change. I know I need to make a change. But I just I don’t know where do I start? Well, it starts with an idea and idea it could be something you actually want to do it could be that. I just I’m not happy with what’s going on now. And I want to open my mind, whatever that is starting with the idea if you can then. I think not in concrete terms. What are the things that? I actually enjoy about this. What what are the things that drive me? You can start setting the table a little differently, and you can write this down and reflect on it.

15:01 – 20:03

Yeah. There’s something weird about writing things down on paper like old school analog. If you will there’s a kinesthetic connection between you and the paper and the idea I would highly recommend keeping journal if you feel that hey, I have this idea. But I don’t know what to do with it. Start writing about it every time you get a thought write it down capture that information because what’ll happen is that one idea will lead to a next step. And that next step might be pivotal in you going from the job that you’re kind of interested in to the one you absolutely love. If you keep doing this. You may find connections to the job that you’re about right now to the job you actually want to do the internal barriers are the things that keep us back far more than the external or. Because when you think about once an external barrier is defined you can start figuring out. How do I go around it or over it or through it or under whatever you can start making a plan for resolving that issue because it is an external barrier that you can know something about it can be any kind of bearer is the internal barriers that hold us back the most. And I think about the change management methodology that I’m certified in the idea is internal barriers are the hardest ones to overcome because we don’t see all of the the outside of it. We can’t put it in a box. We can’t define its measurements. We can’t. We’re not. No, sir. Thomas yet? Right. Can’t see the future. We can only deal with that that we perceive right now. And so talking to these the friends that are brutally honest who can tell me exactly what they observe or give me ideas that I hadn’t thought of. And check me when I start. Two conditional is it. Oh, well that would more because. Oh, well, I couldn’t do that. Because when somebody says to me, why are you saying that or this is what I’m observing? Why are you shutting this down? That’s a different question. They can no longer using excuse. And you know, it reminds me of the gentleman that we were talking about before the podcast that had condition after condition after condition and excuse after excuse after excuse, and when we flat asked, what do you want to do he didn’t hear it? He didn’t hear the question at all. So almost had to say it again, we had to rephrase it a different way we had to protect him because he’s internal barriers were so strong that it was hard to get through. Well, and I don’t think anyone had really seriously asked him what he wanted to do. I don’t know that he was acquitted yet to answer that question. I remember the first time I was asked to my career. I was a junior salesperson at a hotel, and we had the. The executives from the management company touring all of the properties in our region. And when the senior vice president of sales top person asked me what you wanna do. I couldn’t answer the question because I’d never been asked. I never put that thought before other than when I was a kid. I wanted to be an actor that question I can answer. But what he wanted to in your career? Now, why hadn’t given it any thought? So I couldn’t answer the question. Here’s the issue. I couldn’t move forward in my career until I knew what I wanted making a decision for what you want is clarity actional. And once you decide what you want is. It’s like a spark and the spark and then turn into a flame, the flame whole gives you the light you need to move forward to hold up that torch and take that next step. Don’t let your conditions your internal barriers get in the way of you being satisfied in the role that you’re seeking ultimately we met. Mentioned this in a prior podcast. But I think about the quote there to quotes on different sides, depending on where you are you can use either one the first one when in doubt, do nothing the clarity will come. But then there’s also believe it was patent. I can’t remember which world or to something. When in doubt, do something either side, and it really depends on what what your style is. Are you the action type where you think are whatever that is consider what is actually going to drive you because you are the one making the decisions about your career? If you abdicate that responsibility. You either take what comes to you or you can be like, my friend who complains about everything not everybody has their crossed hair is and making these career tour choices these decisions are up to you. It’s not up to somebody else or the company or the economy or something external that you can’t control. It’s all inside. And you need to be the promoter. The advocate. The agent of your own career satisfaction. And you need to defend that I think about our friend Klay on his way, he opens up his job, finders group each week telling the participants you already have all the answers within you.

20:03 – 21:31

This is true. You have all of the answers within you which questions are you going to ask? And how are you going to answer them is that the parting quote today? Sure, we’ll leave it with that question. What is it? What questions are you going to ask yourself, and how are you going to answer them? Well, that’s great. Thank you for joining us today on job seekers radio. You can get all the show notes and resources at seekers radio dot com forward slash zero for three by the way, we have a free resource on that website. There’s a pop up that will come up when you go there to get the episodes and subscribe, it’s called the anatomy of networking conversation. It’s an e book that Scott night put together, it’s a free gift from us to you. We. Just appreciate your time and energy and attention to this session. And we want you to pass it on pass it on the wider the audience, the more people we can impact with this message. Thank you for joining us and head over to items and subscribe to future episodes. You’ll also be able to get a view towards the ones from the past. We want you to go in if you can take one more minute get in there and provide us a rate and review, we’d like to be able to take your comments and questions and include them in future episodes because we are listening. We want to incorporate your feedback into future episodes. So that we can make this more beneficial experience for you, Andrew Scott, we’ll see next time. Thanks

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Job search can be a challenging and rewarding experience. When you learn new techniques and try them out, some may work others might not.

What happens when you get to the point when you have tried everything. Nothing seems to be working! Don’t miss this episode where Scott and Andrew discuss strategies to invigorate your search.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Taking in and evaluating the advice you are receiving.
• What to do when everything you have tried doesn’t work.
• Mindset and activities that can support or defeat your efforts.

Resources (including affiliate links)

StrengthsFinder 2.0StrengthsQuestWhat Color is Your Parachute 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:01 – 00:05:04

welcome to job seekers radio. I’m Andrew and I’m Scott. This production is meant to provide you the listener meaningful support defined great careers faster. And that’s whether you’re working or not. Today’s episode is brought to you by the anatomy of a networking conversation. It’s an e book a Free Resource. We have for you at job. Seekers radio DOT COM in today’s show. We’re talking about what happens when the advice runs out in your job search and it just doesn’t seem to be working you’re still out there looking haven’t found a job yet I think there was a recent situation that you had Scott. Yes other eager. Probably fill us in with one of your clients right. I was just having the conversation recently with somebody who is not complaining but expressing his frustration with the fact that he has been around the job seeking block for awhile now. He’s relatively new to the area but not new to his field and that industry is represented here in the Portland area. He’s talked to a lot of people. He is very well connected in the right places. He’s received a lot of advice from both of us from others and nothing has worked yet. He’s been working with Everything with from startups to established companies all sizes and shapes and nothing quite has worked out to give him a foothold. Right gainful employment right or at least the final set of interviews or a process. That looks exactly normal. He’s gotten close in a couple of situations but it’s it’s not anything that really has delivered anything even even a temporary contract position and I’ve been there a lot of what he was describing was stuff that I lived through during my years of unemployment. And so I. I had a great deal of compassion for him under these circumstances because he’s truly frustrated. He’s tried everything he is. At least his last job was at a higher level so we talked about the fact that there. Aren’t that many jobs in this metropolitan area on that level in the field and we talked about his efforts to branch out. He’s looking at at companies of different sizes. He has applied for jobs of at Lower Levels. And when he he is then asked why he’s applying for a lower position because he’s now over qualified and you can’t get a job when you’re overqualified which doesn’t really make any sense. Other than the fact that the a lot of companies are too afraid to hire someone that they’re then they feel they then have to replace. Because they’re gonNA move onto something else when I talked to. Hr PEOPLE WHO Express that fear. I also tell them well. What are the chances that they may be able to help your company move up within your company that would be a really great higher? Then there’s there’s fear in Balkh he’s been at this for a number of months. He’s in a situation where he has a family to support. And what do you do that? The one thing that I keep coming back to is keep going. And that’s really the the answer to the question keep going. Yeah and it’s nothing that we can’t work with and the challenge that a lot of people have is they come into a situation and they put a date out there. I don’t know if you’ve ever done this but I should have a new job by this date doing what I did where I came from. And now I’m putting all these undo Stresses on myself that are forced and and one of the things. We’re talking about. Today is the advice. Where is the advice coming from? It comes in different forms. How I process the advice and take an internalized. What’s good for me versus what’s actually worked for somebody else right well. You’re you’re mentioning the the stress. That comes with those deadlines at times. Those deadlines are real. I think of the guy that both of us know who was looking for an hr a learning and development position. Who has money was running out my give a date. At least where he had drawn the line in terms of his comfort zone and I have a friend down in Los Angeles who was in exactly the same situation where he was going into his long-term savings because his unemployment had lasted a lot longer. The expected there are times when that deadline is real. But it doesn’t mean that it’s always as hard as you think it might be one of the things during my unemployment. That resonated with me was the idea that nothing is permanent. And when you’re thinking when you’re at the bottom of the well so to speak that you feel like you fallen into when you got laid off or otherwise became unemployed.

00:05:04 – 00:10:02

How how can you see the end when it feels so dark and deep and the fact is and it’s a fact nothing lasts forever? There is a day that you will be employed again and as difficult as it feels when you start telling yourself that. Wow I must be unemployable if I can’t get that job that’s not. The truth is just the story. We start to tell ourselves because we don’t have a better answer because everybody else’s so lucky where I they’ve found the job and I didn’t so there must be something wrong with me. Something wrong with the process or the activities. I’m participating in and all the advice that you give Should be considered a suggestion rather than. Hey this is something you ought to go. Do you know the only people I know do this. And are successful right. And that’s another thing that drives me crazy sometimes about these books that that people are selling. Oh this is the way to success. This is the only way right to success and even a dollar sign attached to it. Yes that’s the only way for reminds me of the story. We’ve heard years ago about send in one dollar for the advice on how to get rich and you put that advertising out to the whole world and if everybody sends you a dollar you become rich. That’s the point it sort of the same thing with these self. Help books that you read. You’ve got to take all of this stuff with a grain of salt because what they’re telling you is what worked for them and that’s great. If the advice you receive works for you. That’s great so now it works for two people. Maybe it works for ten people or maybe even a hundred people but it is never going work for everyone by the same token the advice. That doesn’t work for anybody. Hell I work. It will work for at least one person to your point. Used these suggestions if it’s something you have tried. And this was part of my conversation with another friend of mine who is currently employed but looking to get out of a toxic situation and not feeling like he’s getting any traction the idea is okay so something that maybe had a little bit of success for your showed some hope. What can you do that? It’s just slightly different following the same basic principles of the things that don’t work for you. Is there anything you can learn from that process that you’re going to take with you as you do something different so that you can then tell the story of what worked for you when it lands the point is you have to keep going in order to try something different right and that comes down to mindset we talk a lot about mindset here and what I’m hearing is hey these people haven’t mindset that I doing all those things? And here’s the result expected in. I’m not getting that result. Was that valid result to expect and maybe adjusting the mindset to say hey I expect that everything I do should lead to an interview. Let’s just use that as an example if I if I do. Networking is that leading to an interview. In how many networking do I need to do right? So this is my political pragmatic. Mind thinking that if I have a mindset that says I need to talk to ten people a day in order to get this and I don’t get this and I need to see what I’m doing here that’s wrong or needs adjustment or is that you know an effective measure to get that expected outcome exactly. And you’re really touching on something that we also talked about on the past but I want to bring up again. It’s the idea of expectations. Can we approach our activities whether it’s networking the conference other conversations that we’re having can we approach these things and do these things without a specific expectation and simply being open to what it might bring and this actually ties back to the example of the first guy that we were talking about? He’s trying not to have specific expectations. But simply being open to whatever comes from the conversations. He’s having and I think in his situation. You just had an expectation. Though well it it’s it’s more of it open to something. Openness is more of the mindset or talking about then an actual expectation of a specific result. Because he’s not saying I’m going to have X. result what he needs is a job. He’s approaching these different conversations. I think from a pretty healthy perspective of saying okay. Let’s just see what because he’s made that adjustment? Yes you’re saying is that his expectation may be. Hey this conversation is gonna lead directly to a job and when that didn’t happen adjust expectations. Sure Right. I think that’s a reasonable until his expectations are now tailored to the conversation.

00:10:02 – 00:15:05

He’s having or the situation he’s in and then he saying okay. I’m open now that this conversation may just lead to another conversation or it may lead to nothing or but he’s been doing this for awhile now that he’s starting to feel frustrated because it’s not landing anything or at least not something that’s actually bringing in the money to support his family which. I totally understand that. That was not a static situation dynamic in so if I see my my my savings by resources might assets going like this better. Be doing more stuff on this side or to get something to backfill that that Burn rate. How do you answer that right? It was he had going. I can’t answer that he right. And that’s why we we seek advice from other people is to get different perspectives to say okay. I think this is something I should give a shot. And that’s really what we encourage all of our listeners to do. Just give it a shot. And I also think about those that we’ve heard at the breakfast club and some of the other Networking opportunities where someone will bring up an idea and they say oh well. We’ve tried that. Well how about this l? No I tried that too and had six years ago even has earned. No but the idea is okay. How could you do the same thing but differently? You know the same idea. Change it up somehow too often our frustration and disappointment. Keep us from trying something just a little bit differently because I totally understand. We don’t Wanna waste our time. I don’t want to waste my time either. Trust me I get that. Is it a waste of time? If you’re doing it differently when you think about the evolution of species it’s not suddenly they grow a whole new set of limbs that takes a long time and it’s one little mutation after another if you approach a job search similarly to say if I if I do the same basic things but I’m going to tweak it just a little bit on this chromosome what’s going to be different. The exploration then can bring its own value. Its own energy where you’re not focusing on. Oh I have to have this end result now if you keep doing that. It’s really not getting you anywhere. Why can you do? That’s bigger? That may change things up automatically. You’re still coming back to the same idea that you have to keep going. You can’t just stop because then you’re guaranteed not to get right. Well it’s much like I don’t like to use football. Analogy is very often if you look at the Kansas City chiefs this season they. They’re starting quarterback went out for a part of the season and so they had to put a new guy in. We can’t keep running the same plays with the new quarterback that maybe doesn’t have the same skills as the other quarterback you have to make an adjustment and so they they ran different plays while he was filling in for the injured quarterback happening that he. I think he won. Four out of five games or something. Because the coach had enough sense to counsel his people to let’s run. These plays a different way. Let’s come up with a different set of place and see if these work that you’ve just rang a bell in my head with that were having conversations with one of my corporate clients specifically about deploying your people against their strengths because ultimately people are far more engaged when they’re doing things that they’re already good at or things that they’re already passionate about so if you are adjusting those plays on the new guy strengths. And you’re getting good results. Think about the morale boost. That has well. The same thing is going to be true in job. Search whether you’re employed or not you are going to have a unique set of strengths. Your skills are going to be a little bit different from the person who’s advice you’re receiving. So how do you more the advice into something? That is actually going to employ your strengths. Because they’re going to be different from everyone else that you’re talking to It’s not like you hang up your strengths and your weaknesses and everything in the closet to job search. You Know I. It’s you have to look at part of the networking piece. Do you think your strengths will play two and the other parts. Maybe you don’t leverage those as much right and Because I’ve seen a lot of people who are expressive and the networking is really easy for them. But the other person doesn’t have a chance to talk. And that doesn’t go anywhere until it. So we’ve talked about styles preferences really knowing your style preference or your strengths is going to help you do some of the things. So that’s how I would morph it. I would say I’m Gonna more of this thing that you know. Networking is kind of a expressive right and External what they call it in extroverted extrovert.

00:15:05 – 00:20:18

That’s what it is if your personality is such that you’re going to thrive in that environment by all means jump into it if you’re going to be drained in that environment. I’m not sure it’s a good idea to push yourself to part but this comes back to that mindset idea if you know your strength is not getting out and meeting fifteen people in one evening to push yourself to do that may be helpful to some degree to expect the same results as the person who thrives in that environment. I think that it’s fair right. I don’t think that’s a fair expectation for you to set for yourself so instead if you’re looking at the things that you’re hearing from others and comparing what is their skill set. Where are they most comfortable? What is their style preference? Compared to mine I can do the things that we have in common based on our common strengths. And maybe not push myself as hard to do the that. I’m not strong at because if you’re familiar with with strengths finder. You will understand that. You’re not going to make the same kind of progress in those areas. That are not your string right so instead of setting yourself up for that kind of failure and then tearing yourself down because you didn’t succeed how about shifting your mindset into focusing on the things that you do well and then you are strong where you are strong for as long as they’re leading to the outcome desirable for Employment. Sure because there’s a universal truth about employment that I’m aware of that. Nothing happens until you have an interview because that’s the thing that immediately precedes offer. Typically okay how do you define the interview? How many there still some sort of measuring stick okay that they used to say okay? You’re the right person. Here’s the offer. Whatever that measuring stick is typically. It’s interview and and so the truth is that an interview is a conversation dialogue. Yes and and the Nice thing about networking. It’s a conversation. It’s a dialogue so it’s prep for an interview so now I’ve changed my mindset. Not that networking is this weird strange thing that I go and I try to convince you to put me in for a job right. I and I practice my interview Skill Sheriff Story Whilst Good Question Have Accommodate Times. Have we talked to people who tell us the story that they were having just a conversation? And it morphed into an interview. It doesn’t happen as often as the formal interviews where a job opening has been posted. You go through the process but it does happen and these things happen for people who are open to them but that is a mindset. It’s not about getting all the advice and something clicks necessarily. Sometimes that happens a lot of times. That happens that’s not the story for everyone. The story that does work is that it is going to change. I need unfortunately even the good times don’t last forever. The bad times don’t last forever. You will find the job or a job that is going to be better than your current situation. Things will get better. It does get better and what I heard here. Today is a couple of things as a job seeker. Somebody that’s even employed looking for something better always be tooling up on the job seeking cy agree and do some learning there. Find out how to write the great resume how to do a good interview. Always be tooling up on that side of things so that you never run into a position where we decide. I’m not gonna take anymore advice because it’s all up kiss right right. We’re excited you know what this advice thing is not for me. I’m just going to do what I think is good which isn’t bad but then. I’m not taking other new information. So then what if the market changes now? I’m in a bad position. So that’s the first thing. The second thing is the mindset I would have for networking as a suggestion that you might want to run through your filter. Right is I want to identify an ideal and that is I wanna find an interview or a conversation that Morse into an interview. And I’m going to keep doing this thing until I find one of those and so that’s Kinda like motivation to keep going. Which is something we’re talking about here is keep going well. I’m going to keep going until I find that I’m coming back to a one of these conversations that we’ve mentioned before. Just how do you keep going when you haven’t found it yet? There there comes a period when you get tired right. You’ve tried all the job search fatigue. Right take arrest. It’s okay pending on how badly you need the the income that may determine how long the rest happens. Fine rests where you can so that you have the energy to keep going. Don’t stop just because you’re not getting traction doesn’t mean you shouldn’t keep trying to to to more this to do something a little bit differently but to keep using the advice that you’ve you’ve received so far it is going to be different dependent upon what level of position you’ve had in the past and what how much of that might be in your specific market.

00:20:18 – 00:23:31

It’s going to be a little different for everyone. What doesn’t change is that? It is not permanent. And you have to keep going until you decide not to work anymore right right. If you’re deploying where you could do that I guess you could but the idea is. Hey you know what even if I have something? That’s good for me now. Does it mean it’ll be good for me in five years? Oh that’s learn to write or or even ten years and it’s the people that I coach that have been in the same company for Twenty Twenty five thirty years that come out and are like I never thought this would happen to me right and I can just tell you when I see the look on their face. I don’t want to see it out in anybody’s face so I’ll give you the free advice here. Take it for what? It’s worth reading through your filter right as a suggestion. Don’t ever think anything as permanent and always be looking not that you’re looking to leave not that you don’t Wanna stay at that. You’re open to opportunities for market research. Think about blockbuster us what’s that The video heavy right. Yeah no but your point. So there were all sorts of indicators suggest that the market was changing around them the employees who have been in any company for twenty five years if they’re not doing the market research to see where the trends are going and whether or not they have the skills for the newer kind of work that’s happening that’s a gap and that’s something that we talk about in my field about. Skilling up and making sure that people are ready with the skills that they are going to need for the next iteration of the job they currently have. These are things that everyone can be working on a constant level. Keep Looking. It isn’t about getting out of your current job especially if you love your current job and you wanna stay in it. Knowing what’s out there will help you in your current job. It comes back to the idea of keep going. Keep doing the things that you you feel. You need to be doing to survive. What can you do a little bit differently to find? Better outcome. Better Opportunity writer outcome. Keep swinging So that does it for this episode of Job Seekers Radio you can find all the show notes and Resources Job Seekers radio DOT COM FORWARD SLASH. Zero seven eight. Thank you for joining us for this episode of Job Seekers Radio Your investment of time and attention is truly appreciated. Head on over to itunes. In fact there’s a link in the show notes to take you right to itunes and it really be helpful for us if you would actually do a rate and review a so that we can get some feedback to make this better production for you and also to spread the word about Job Seekers Radio. We also want your comments and questions. We love to answer those. We do episodes periodically to answer a listener questions. So please send us a few more. We love getting those. Well I’m Andrew and I’m Scott and in the words of Tracy McMillan. Everything works out in the end if it has worked out yet that it’s not the end by everybody stay in the game.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

You got the interview. You wrote the thank you note. You followed up with an email. You called the recruiter. What’s next? 

Scott and Andrew talk about the Do’s and Don’ts of following up for interviews and networking.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• The power of empathy.
• Golden and Platinum Rule
• Refining your approach to following up
• When do you give up
• Thinking outside the box of HR recruiter
• Positive and effective ways to followup well 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:00 – 00:05:00

Job-seekers radio Andrew, and I’m Scott this production is meant to provide you meaningful support to find great careers faster. Whether you’re working or not today on job seekers radio. We’re talking about follow up. How much is too much and win. Can we cross that line to where we become an annoying pestering fool, right? Rather than an exceptionally qualified. Awesome candidate exactly follow up as one of my favorite, topics. I’ve said many times you may have heard it in in prior podcasts. I’m sure you will hear it in the future for me. Follow up is the most important step of any process if you aren’t following up. Well, you’re you don’t know if it truly works other than Donal evidence. And I’m not gonna get into a lot of debate over this. I’ve just find that if you follow up in a thoughtful manner that the chances of success, whatever it is. You’re trying to do. To increase if you’re thinking that it’s too much. It probably is. Yeah. Put yourself in their shoes. How often would you wanna be followed up with and how much and what method and what does that look like kind of us a little bit of empathy and put yourself in their position. Sure. And understand the context of what your follow it might be related to. So I’ve been unemployed several times been laid off just from the nature of the work that I’ve done and the result is I end up looking for work afterwards. I’ve done this many times. I’ve also been a hiring manager. I tend to see people behaving toward me when I was looking for an employee similarly to how I was behaving as well. And so as I look at the things that work for me, the things that don’t work for me from these candidates. It’s sort of bringing in full circle. And I. Get a different understanding of how I might have been coming across. If I was following up too often or not often enough what I was saying as I was following up. All of these things came into better, focus, so short of becoming a hiring manager all of a sudden, you will want to put your own activities through that filter to see how it works on the other side. And you’ll never know exactly what the other person might be thinking. And that’s okay. Think of all the times where follow up could make a difference in your career. That’s how we’re approaching this could relate to an interview it could just be you try to build relationships inside your organization, it could be you wanting to do career change, whatever the context is networking interviewing what have you? This podcast episode is really dedicated to help you get better at that activity in terms of how you approach people and the approach really does make. Difference. If your intent is to build strategic relationships that you want to incubate over time, you’re always going to be seeking people that fit that that mold rather than maybe tactical series of things you do just to get a job or an offer or. Yes. Afind out status on your application. Whatever it might be your goal is different. When you want to establish these relationships, it’s the relationship that becomes the goal that what a successful relationship looks like in this context is going to take time to build all of that changes the way you’re defining the road to success. So the approach does shift really quite quite dramatically with that said, you’re also going to want to think about what strategically could benefit both sides of that networking conversation over time as I’m talking for example to department manager today. Tomorrow, I may be talking to a CEO or maybe somebody who works in the mail room. And I’ll I’ll tell you those are some of my favorite people because they interact with everyone in the organization on some level. They know what’s going on. And they’re usually the ones that are perceived as being the lowest on the ladder. Well, guess who’s holding up the ladder? Right. All of these different relationships has you build the relationships over time, you’re going to become on some level, a friend. When does it come to a y need to get in touch with the gate keeper, the people that you build these long term relationships with can probably get you not only to the gate keeper, but beyond. So you’re shaking hands kissing babies friends in the mail room. Exact you’re amazing. Well, so here’s an idea.

00:05:00 – 00:10:07

The reason I brought that up is if if you have an objective in anything certainly wanna leave a lasting impression growing. Right. You want a good lasting impression positive. I guess what? I was suggesting is you need to identify those group of people that you feel are strategic to your future. Because that’s the part you control certainly want to have different kinds of relationships exact professionally. Yes. But in this case, I don’t think we can have. Hundreds of really solid strategic relationship. No, that’s not being strategic. What is the plan? Talked two hundred people while on the other hand making the decision to take a long-term approach means that there won’t be as many short term successes and for some of our listeners, they need the short term successes. There’s nothing wrong with taking an approach to what is going to get me that first interview. How can I do the short term relationship tight activities that are going to get me into the interview faster? These are all decisions that only you can make but that’s going to be a different approach, and it’s good. It’s just not going to have the long term benefits. So understanding the difference and using both at the appropriate times is going to set you up perhaps it would be easier for audience. Maybe if we separated deduce. From the dome. Okay. And we really discuss from that perspective. What we would recommend in terms of follow up. Let’s start with the dues. Let’s start with a positive. Absolutely. I mean, the doodoo, but you know, what I mean? Start with the dues. Well, keep keep your follow meaningful meaningful the conversation should really be obviously mutually beneficial. But when you follow up, don’t you say, hey, I was just calling to fall up. Yeah. Well. I suppose if that’s the best you can do it. No having a meaningful conversation. Again. What’s meaningful to one person may be different from what’s meaningful to another. But the idea you’re bringing something to the table that helps them one of the nice things that I hear in the Pacific northwest fairly often is how can I help you? And I think it’s meant. Well, I think they they truly want to be able to help but often it becomes clear pretty quickly that they’re offering only because they want something from you. And they don’t really do a good job of masking that I’m not saying, you should mascot. I’m saying you should want to help other people because those are the types of people we all wanna meet and get to know those who truly enjoy helping others. They have a different mindset. They don’t have L tear motives or hidden agendas. And it’s been my experience that generally I can figure out when. It’s just there this person has inches. Feels a little slime exactly you can. And I don’t feel it. And I don’t follow up with them. I don’t want to have any more interaction as as my mother likes to say. I don’t want to get to know that person any better than I already do. I love your mom too. You know, it’s it’s one of those things that we all have been there. We all go through this with somebody in our lives, right? Especially on the professional level. We are talking to somebody that we just can’t get past the idea that this person is asking for political reasons, and I just don’t like working with people like that you seem very transparent. Why don’t you just tell them? Hey, I’m getting the feeling that you’re asking for political reason. I digress. No. Actually, I have done that. When when I’ve had someone that’s another podcast. They want to connect with me on Lincoln. And I can’t figure out by looking at their profile y they would want to connect with me. Me. And I it’s really just because they have a motive to get beyond their self interested. Yeah. Yeah. Interest political whatever you wanna call it really the objective when you reach out to somebody have purpose. Exactly. Have it be meaningful add value and be relevant to that person? Yes. Rather than myself. We talk a lot and my current team about adding value. It’s almost a joke. But we truly mean it when you’re having a conversation, you’re you’re meeting with someone. You’re you’re proposing a solution whatever the conversation is about I want to bring something value to the other person. Because that’s how we maintain the connection what we’re talking about following up a whether it’s an interview a search function, whatever that is if I am always approaching this. Then I’m adding value. The chances are better that I’m going to get a response. And when you do that, it’s good to have some sort of. Cadence right set up in advance. If it’s for an interview, I’m going to reach out to them when they say, and maybe a week later, and then a week later, and then maybe a month later, really you need to make a decision at some point.

00:10:07 – 00:15:05

We’ll talk about some ideas there in terms of how long you should continue following up as long as the person’s engaged would be my answer. So, but again that you’re gonna judge that based on the responses you’ve got if you have not received any responses at all I wouldn’t put a lot of effort into that second or third month. But it may be that you want to go to work for that company and only that company there are ways to keep that fire burning even on a lower level, which brings up another ideas. You were speaking I kept thinking about different ways to connect with people because it may be just or incessantly sending Email will probably because that’s all you have is their Email triumph phone, call send a piece of mail attach it up do diff. Things to follow up with this person. Maybe Clinton article or printer article off the internet and mail it to him. Hey thought you’d find this interesting. You know, there’s just different ways you can incubate this relationship over time that demonstrates your interest. And you don’t want to continually ask them. Do you have a job for me? Or can I have this conversation to your point sending them? An article actually, it may seem sort of silly. But it gets you noticed. And if it’s a negative elementary tell you, please stop, okay. Too bad for that one. Right. But you’re you’re going to get noticed. And that’s the point the regularity that comes with the different ways. They’d see you save for instance, if you’re targeting a specific executive or gatekeeper or company, and you have a chance to go to different association meetings or networking meetings. Whatever those look like, and they see you every time they’re going to have a certain amount of trust that they can get to know you a little bit. So as you’ve got this cadence thing going the more often, they see you in a positive light, the more likely you’re going to get a positive response. Another component is ask for advice. One of the dues that you want to do in terms of following up. With people is just to ask them. How would they like to be followed up with what is it? Good. Cadence for them take the cue from your audience in and likely, if you do what they say, they’re more likely to help you one thing that comes to my mind when I think about asking for advice. What advice would I be looking for? If I haven’t had any response from the company at all well, talk to people who are in the industry or on that level. Or maybe it’s a recruiter that you’ve talked with in the past who’s trying to help you find a position, I really believe strongly in making friends with people at temp agencies or other kinds of placement services because they are very happy to give you advice your success as their success. So I looked at them for different ideas on how to keep this networking thing alive or my interviewing skills, or whatever that is ask them for advice. If you had one of your candidates asking this. What would you tell? Him because invariably you’re going to hear something that you probably haven’t heard or you’re going to hear it in a different way, and that subtle shift can put you in a completely new direction. Another consideration is being present. And interested often will follow up with somebody out of self interest. And we’re only focused on one thing. So it almost sounds like a broken record. Really we have to use our intuition and really get into the moment and be present with that conversation. So we can meet the needs of the other person. You know, I remember not too long ago. Actually, I was talking to somebody who didn’t care for this man that she had met fairly recently. And it’s because he didn’t ask her any questions about her and her environment. Well, okay, it’s nice to know that there are some mutual interest. But what was interesting is then she could not tell me anything about this other person other than the fact that he hadn’t asked her questions. Exactly for those of you couldn’t see the emotion in front of your face. Andrew Vinnie, buddy home. But if you’re not interested in the other person, why on earth would they be interested in you? And if they’re not asking the kinds of questions, you want to hear ask them, the quite kinds of questions you want to hear because how often do you ask somebody a question? And then they turn around and say how about you. And if they don’t maybe you don’t want to know that person any more than you do now. But you can’t expect them to be interested in you, unless you are showing that the people that I wanna talk to are the ones that are interesting and interested when you get both sides of that, and you have the conversation back and forth.

00:15:05 – 00:20:13

That’s usually how that fifteen minute interview just went in hour and a half. And when you think about it on top of all that is maybe a little bit of gratitude or thankfulness for somebody actually saying. Thank you for the interview. Thank you for your time. Thank you for being flexible allow yourself to give them a compliment or some thanks or some positive vibe. So that you can demonstrate to them what kind of person what kind of character you have. Well that also touches on the idea of when your time is up. Have you scheduled a fifteen minute conversation or thirty minute informational interview. When that thirty minutes is up you want to acknowledge, hey, I know we’re out of time. But I’m free to speak longer. If you are if they are free, and they say, oh, yeah. Let’s keep going. This is going to be a good conversation. If they say, oh, yeah. It’s thirty minutes. I gotta go. Maybe they did have something to go. But here’s your opportunity say, okay. When can I follow up with you and establish that kind of respect that will in turn deliver on the respect? And by practicing these every time you have a conversation with somebody you’re setting up successful follow up every single time. Do make. Note of when you’re supposed to follow up. So you actually follow up on time put it in your calendar. So that’s another. That’s another do when we think about the don’ts. There are probably as many don’t as Dewes maybe more. But I will say don’t overdo it. It’s a great idea to follow up very quickly very soon. I just read an article recently that that talked about these new ideas on how to stand out in the crowd in your follow up. And they’re the same pieces of advice that you and I have been giving all along have your thank you notes ready when you walk in. So you can personalize it and leave it at the desk before you leave that does set you apart because I’m here to tell you it happens rarely, but don’t then call them the two days later or five days later, and then another five days later, and then another five days landed that can get annoying. Most of the time people are two days or three days removed for an from an interview. Where somebody said they would follow up with them and didn’t right. And so that happens on the company side. I think what we’re hearing from the candidates that we coach are we’ve talked to through breakfast club is hey, I interviewed. I sent the thank, you know, even sent an Email, and I followed up with a recruiter three days later one. Why do now what would you don’t want to do is be hammering the phone and Email cornering that recruiter to try to get an answer? Because a recruiter may not have the answer. Right. That’s why it’s so important. If you’re at the interview or you’re having a networking conversation. Get their cell number get their Email understand what their preferred method of communication. Maybe it’s direct message through Twitter. I don’t know why we ask. So the don’t I would say is don’t forget don’t forget to gather that information. So that you can asking you the next steps has critical. Yeah. Absolutely one of the other don’ts that we wanna talk about is don’t be afraid. Raid of the level at which you follow up with the company. In other words, if you happen to have an opportunity to follow up on your interview. But with someone at a higher position do it. If you happen to run into the president of the company that you where you just interviewed have the conversation with the president say, hey, I just interviewed with your company. What’s it like to lead these people or or whatever that question is have a conversation with that person? And then asks that person, how can I follow up with you on this? If it’s back to the mailroom. Hey, I just interviewed for the manager position. What’s it like to work there, the mail room guys probably going to tell you what’s going on in the department, the more data points more information, you can collect the better? That’s a great point the other thing. I would say is don’t have fear to get back with a hiring manager. Once you’ve had an interview some people think, oh, I’m only supposed to be talking to the recruiter will you interviewed with the hiring manager. He’s the person or. She or that group is going to make the decision to hire you talk to them. Why wouldn’t you talk to them? Exactly get their permission at the interview, I’m giving you some tips some dues inside the don’t if you will don’t be afraid to reach out to anybody based on level context. Or what have you another thing to think about I have kids and you’ve had kids, right? When they were young. It seems like they’d ask me every three seconds, dad. Can I have a cookie cookie cookie? Well, you know, I do that. Yeah. To wear you down until you say, yes, just to and that does work it. Sure. Does it makes people angry white anyway? Yeah. So don’t be knowing. Yeah. Golden rule instead. Right. Well, I like the platinum rule do unto others as they would have you do to them if you’re constantly asking if you’re pestering your e you know, when you pester people that this is a behavior that I think we all understand.

00:20:13 – 00:25:01

Maybe there’s some fine lines. When it starts if you again. Think of it tried to think of this from the other person’s perspective. If I were to be asked for this information repeatedly how often is too often. How do I avoid asking too many times the same question, and I think following your your own instincts is probably going to be a good rule of thumb and recognize that many companies have a process. Yes. So if you’re in that process, you don’t control that process, and you don’t want to give them more information. That would weed you out of that process. Right. ’cause they have decision to make exactly and if you see the process, which you don’t influence and on best case scenario that might be forty five days to onboard somebody and you’re in in week one. Well, why would you call that person every other day? How many of us have been in situations where we have every intention of hiring by specific date, and then some other business need comes up that actually pushes. That out. It is what it is. There’s nothing the candidate can do or the hiring manager Medicare is to change the timing or to keep the timing on its original course, there’s just they’re so many things that can happen that it’s really best to ask for advice from the recruiter. For example. You know, it’s been a while. I’m still very interested. Can you give me some input on where the we might be in the process and usually recruiters are pretty good about giving. You the information you need don’t do it every five minutes. Maybe once a week has three suggesting I generally give the advice follow up immediately. And then a week later maybe one week after that, and then defer to the monthly again, it’s going to be different for for each specific scenario because maybe a two week period would be appropriate. If you’re asking when can I follow up? That’s that’s the answer. What’s most important? Don’t give up that is the most important. Don’t don’t give up don’t ever give up. Never never never never give up. Yeah. It giving out means to me the idea that okay? I’m no longer going to continue doing the work that I’m doing whatever that work may be in this cases, looking for work. If you don’t give up you show, your persistence, you show that you’re dedicated to doing this that gets noticed. Now, you may not get the job at the company you’re looking for, but people will notice that you don’t give up it. Also, it will get you through those hard times that brings us to the idea of. Hey, I’ve done the dues I’ve managed the don’ts at what point do. I just say, you know, what I just don’t wanna follow up with this person anymore, and that’s going to happen. It would be because there’s silence you followed up with Email phone calls voicemails, everything that, you know. I do know response and some point as they say Fisher cut bait personally when if somebody comes to me at that point to end their asking me, should I cut bait. I would say, yes. Because if you’ve reached that point your mindset about working for or with these people has changed year becoming frustrated or there is a lack of progress on the time line that you feel as appropriate whatever. This is your now starting to make judgments on whether or not you want to continue. That’s probably a really good time to say move on engagement is key here, if the person is engaged, and you have conversations back and forth, and you feel like it’s a relationship you want incubate forever. Then put them on a quarterly schedule. Right. If there’s no interview involved, or you know, it just depends on the context, but I think a quarterly schedule for most people is manageable. And even if you’re working. I recommend you have about twelve people on that follow up as one person week anybody working or not can follow up with one person week. Absolutely. I and I think that’s great advice. I think the hardest thing to deal with is. When you get silence. Crickets, you’ve put stuff out there. You’ve sent the emails to calls the whole thing. And you never get a response. I would say coming back to the idea of do the things that bring results don’t keep doing something. If it’s not bringing results if you’re getting silence move on and re-engage back into a new process with another company another person or what have you? There’s always gotta be the next one on the list.

00:25:01 – 00:26:52

Right. And so I would go and focus on that. So remember the follow up is a key component to everything you do in search, including the interview or just networking in general manager dues in your don’ts and make a decision at some point too. Up or not with that person. When Wendy walkaway, I think and remember just as a final thought the walkaway point knowing when you’re going to walk what your bottom line is gives you a certain amount of power. And it really helps you in your process to move onto other things once you reach that walkaway point awesome. Well, that’s it for job seekers radio. You can get all the show notes resources at seekers radio dot com forward slash zero four two, and we have a free resource for you Scott nine put together an e book is called the anatomy of networking conversation is going to help you with a lot of these things. We talk about in terms of networking and follow up and all of that jazz. Download that at Jobseeker’s radio dot com. There’s a little box. That’ll pop up sign up today. So thank you for joining us for this episode of job seekers radio. Oh, we want to acknowledge the investment of time and attention you’ve put into this. We really appreciate it. Head over. I tunes subscribed to get future episodes while you’re there, please. If you’ll just take a minute of your time to give a rate and review, we would really be grateful for that. We do listen we do give us the feedback. And it’s more than likely we’re going to incorporate that into future episodes, especially if you have questions we want to hear from you. Well, this is Andrew, and I’m Scott until next time go out and get it done.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

how long is it  going to take, really? This is a very common question. Both Scott and Andrew have heard this question frequently. The variety of asking can influence the way in which it is answered.

Don’t miss these Topics:

What qualities determine how long it will take to find a job?

1. The Level of The Role you Are Seeking. The higher the role, the longer it will take.
2. Activities Use To Find Work: Effective job search as measured by conversions to interviews.
3. Supply and Demand In Your Marketplace. Economics 101 – high demand and low supply generates faster placement.
4. Asking Better Questions of Yourself. Crafting a better ask, will generate a better answer. 

Resources (including affiliate links)

4-Part Series on the Anatomy of a Networking ConversationJSR 015: The Set-Up
JSR 016: The Icebreaker JSR 017: The Question and AnswerJSR 018: The Ask 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:00 – 00:05:01

Aw. Welcome to job seekers radio. I’m Andrew, and I’m Scott this is a production meant to provide. You the listener meaningful support to find great careers faster. Whether you’re working or not today on job seekers radio were answering. The lifelong question how long is it going to take to get a job? Well, it depends depends. Are you talking about the undergarments that you use older? But suppose, if that something you need to deal with and you know, maybe you should consider that. No, we’re talking about this, maybe. Okay. Off to a great start. We are asked to this question. Just about every time we get together in a networking scenario. We hear it all the time. It is going to be a question that we’ve asked ourselves that others will ask us that we hear people asking each other. This question is never going away. And it, unfortunately, there’s no good answer that covers everybody. It may be just have to ask a better question. We’ll talk about that later on in this episode. The feeling I get is it really depends on how you ask it because it may be like, oh, how long is this going to take or you could be at the front end of the search. And you’re wondering how long is this going to take a really depends on your mindset? And we talk about that in a lot of the episodes out here is where is your mindset? I really think that the the best approach to answering this question. First of all you have to understand that the answer that. You’re going to find is going to be different from any other answer than anybody else finds because we’re all in a unique situation as a result. We start looking for the answers internally in a future podcast. We’re going to talk about looking for a success from external sources, and and the the liabilities involved in that. But I wanna touch on that for a moment. Because if I’m always looking for someone else to answer the question, I’m always going to find that it’s a little bit off. Because no one else is going to be an exactly the same situation for me. And what works for them isn’t always going to work for me. But there are ways for us to take what has worked for others. Try it on for size and see how that works for us. What it brings? Because really the way to answer that question for my experience has been what am I doing in my job search, and what of that is actually working what you really asking is what qualities or what components would. Determine how long is it gonna take to get a job? Exactly. And there’s a lot. And there’s a lot of them the first one I would look at is the level in terms of seniority in the organization, if you’re looking director or executive level. The presumption is of course, depending on the other components will talk about here is that it’s going to take longer. The companies are more deliberate about this hiring decisions. There might be more stakeholders involved, and it just gonna take longer. It may also be an organization that has a lot of back story that they want to undo they want to shift the focus or shift the trajectory of their corporate culture. And so they’re looking for a very specific skill set or track record that they feel is going to be moving them in the direction they want even for them finding the right candidate is going to take just as long as the right candidates finding them. So just no executive positions are a good opportunity. Also to have somebody help you. And this is something that I recommend. Very highly to people if you are looking for a higher position higher someone some consultant a placement special coast or or coach that that can help you with these connections because often the corporation is going to be hiring someone like that to find them a candidate. They don’t just post it on. Indeed, a lot of these organizations may not have the type of experience hiring that level exactly and higher so hiring that out is really fairly common. The next thing to think about in terms of how long is your job. Search gonna take is the activities you’re participating in to actually find the work. And we talk about affective job. Search we’ve talked about the anatomy of networking conversation. In fact, will leave that in the show notes. So you can have access to it. If this is the first time, you’re joining us on the podcast. We’d actually suggest you for I subscribe, first of all and second of all go back and listen to some of the prior episodes where we talk about. What is the -ffective job surgeon? What works, and what doesn’t and how to approach this whole activity that is somewhat challenging for most people because they’re changing what either what they’re doing now or they’re changing careers, or they’re, you know, they’re trying to head a new direction. And there is some friction that happens when you make that decision, but I wanna come back to your initial point. And it depends on the mindset if you are just starting job.

00:05:01 – 00:10:04

Search you’re going to have a different attitude, you’re going to have more energy. Hopefully, you’re going to have a different point of view from if you are into it a year or so and fortunately, we’re gonna time right now where people are finding work within a year, even at some higher levels. But we know that this cycles through I’ve had it in my own experience a period where I was three years unemployed that was during the great recession. So it wasn’t terribly surprising. But it was tough. And at the end of that it was tough to keep going. So as we think about our job search for. From our own particular mindset. How does that affect the way? I look forward. What are the activities that I’m going to do how do I approach this differently and changing it up can be really healthy? What I the advice that I got at the time. And then again in a later job. Search was do things that actually bring you results. So we talked in a prior episode about resumes. Do the format of a resume that gets you calls send out one out if someone asks for something specific that is different give that person whatever their want. Dave, what do the things activties resumes? Whatever it is do the things that bring something back that could be an interview. But it could also be just someone new to talk to a different website to search that you hadn’t heard before these are all forms of success. If you get something out of a certain effort, keep doing that. And see how long that will bring you an effort each one of you is probably looking for the end the end being the offer. Okay. Exactly. We encourage you to look work backwards from the offer the oppor- is just an outcome of successful interview. If we were to look at the successful activities, they should be gauged against an interview. What’s generating an interview for you? Now your definition of success may differ. Most people are looking for an offer or opportunity for employment. And if we work backwards from that, you’re wanna track in maybe even do a retrospective on the activities or participating in now. Enter the. Generating or not interviews for you. If you haven’t started tracking those things I encourage you to do that. Now, if you’re sending out application resumes, and you’re getting one interview for every five locations. That’s a pretty darn good conversion rate, right? I haven’t seen many people get that. But it’s possible. I’m personally, I’m not the data type. I don’t live in data. Doesn’t drive me doesn’t bring me joy. But I have found that it’s really useful. So I come back to it. It’s an effort that I make because it feeds the things that do bring me the energy. If you haven’t to your point if if our listeners have not done the research on what the success rate is that is going to give you a lot of information that will help you in your search. It’s not that sending out the resumes blindly on to bleeds that come over. Indeed. Or some of the other aggregates isn’t a good idea. I think it is a good idea. I’ve found work that way, it’s not the one that’s going to generate the most. Incremental successes. The networking really makes a difference. And there are other activities that you can do like volunteering and hand Toastmasters. And so many of these other activities that involve people that are in business, you’re making the right connections. Do the research find out which one is working for you. Because you can have the head of that Toastmasters group tell you all the things that worked for him. But that may not be the best one for you do the research on what you’re doing. And keep doing the things that bring you those incremental successes information advice connections. We talk about that a lot. That’s really what you’re looking. For is information advice in connections, where taken this information and process it and find something that works for you. Right. Well, speaking of data really the next act. The next thing that really is going to impact your ability to find work quickly, and how long it takes is the sublime demand in the market if we have high supply, right and low demand, you’re. To be looking for a long time right now, though, it’s kind of the opposite. In a lot of ways. There’s a lot of people not a lot of opportunities available, but not a lot of people to fill those opportunities. Right. And yet that still is different in every locale based on the industries involved. You know, who who are the predominant industries in an area? It creates the struggle. There’s a dichotomy really those that are there’s a lot of the same industry in one area. And I’m thinking in the Portland area. We are the silicone forest silicon forest silicone to something else. Whatever donate. Tomato tomato. Right. There’s a lot of high tech here in the Portland area. And if you’re not in high-tech, you’re not interested in or you don’t have the right skill set to get into it.

00:10:04 – 00:15:01

And yet you wanna live here. It’s going to take you longer. And that was exactly my situation. I wanted to come back home to Portland, it took me a lot longer to find the right job in this area. But it’s where I wanted to go. So I was willing to put in the effort and to the patient. I also had the support both from you know, the familial situation. And also, the financial I could make it last you narrowed your market identified by, narrowing your market fewer opportunities. It may be time. That’s right between the interviews and tell you open your market, if you’re willing to do so opening your market could include things like, hey, let’s look for remote work or let’s expand our geography or industry or anything like that. So if you’re really in a point if you’re listening to this this, Ed. Episode where you need to find work quickly. You need to expand your market that would be a recommendation night. Make and to be okay with how ever far you’re looking if you actually land something, you know, you get that interview. Don’t say no try to find ways to say. Yes. Even if it’s at more of a distance than you’d like because you don’t know where that might lead. Open remain open. Keep a fresh perspective every time you approach your activities, right? If you are in a situation where you can wait then narrowing to exactly what you want can work for you. Because it I find that the sex six S’s become more more significant more powerful when it is building on the last one when it really is very targeted you keep drilling deeper and deeper you’re going to get to the target that you’re looking for is just gonna take longer. I’m reminded of rich who came to breakfast club. I don’t know if your member rich. He I mean, he. Came in and said, you know, I work for anybody as long as it’s Nike golf. And I was like, okay, that’s one strategy. Now, it probably took him longer to find opportunity because of that. Sure. But everybody knew that when they heard of an opportunity for Nike golf who. Are they going to mmediately think of exactly and it worked it took him a period of years, but he got it? And he was in that situation where he could do that. I remember having a conversation with him and his wife was saying I think you need to take the next job that comes along. And that was his response. I will take any job as long as with Nike, and but he was driven. And he got it. And he’s still there. It can’t work for you. The only person who can answer the question is you, and that’s the toughest thing to deal with speaking of questions asking better questions will actually get you better answers. Perhaps the question you should ask that it’s better than how long does it. Take to get a job is what is the best way to find a job fast. East or what steps should I take defined the right job? So if you increase the quality of your question, yes, you’re going to get better answers. And when you think about riches example, where he he was absolute set on working for Nike, then the questions become how do I get further into Nike? How can I penetrate that how can I meet the gatekeepers? How can I get those informational interviews which I believe he did over one hundred over one hundred he still doesn’t and he still doesn’t in. Here’s why because he knows. Yeah. He’s been there. Right. So it is he’s walked that path. And he understands the importance of doing these things so the questions ended up changing for him, and I have used his tactics. And it has worked I didn’t focus on a specific company. Mine was on a specific job. And I got it, narrowing the questions refining the questions to something that works better to get an answer that is more. Meaning. Awful really is the better way to approach the question. How long is this job? Search gonna take it’s gonna take long as you think it’s going to take and it’s going to be based on the level. You’re seeking your activities. Your supply and demand in your marketplace. And your ability to ask yourself better question. That’s it for this episode of job seekers radio. You can find show notes and resources on seekers radio dot com slash zero four one. So thank you for joining us for this episode of job seekers radio. We want to acknowledge your investment of time and attention. We really appreciate it head over to itunes and subscribe to get future episodes. And while you’re there, please provide us a rated review. We we want feedback. We want to know that this is helpful and that you’re finding meaning here, and we want to incorporate those needs that you have into our into our episodes. A podcast. We do have a free resource for you. It’s called the anatomy of networking conversation. It’s an e book that Scott ni- put together, it’s a free gift that we have for you.

00:15:01 – 00:15:26

Just go to job seekers radio dot com. You’ll see a little pop up comes up on the screen, and you can get that completely free. Just as a gift from us to you. My name is Scott. And this is Andrew and two. We want to leave you with thought that which you persist in doing becomes easier. Not because the nature of the thing has changed. But your ability to do it has increased. All right. Thanks, everybody. Bye. Bye.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

You work so hard to get the interview, why botch it? Take some time to learn the pitfalls to avoid so you dominate the interview with offers. Join Scott and Andrew as we share the top mistakes.

9 Mistakes To Avoid When Interviewing

1. Not Doing Any Research on the Company and Position
2. Not Preparing for the Common Interview Questions
3. Assuming you are “Good Enough”
4. Not Having Any Questions to Ask the Hiring Team
5. Not Knowing Anyone Inside
6. Forgetting To Follow-Up
7. Lack of Self-Awareness related to Skills-Employer Match
8. Relying Too Heavily on Nervousness
9. Not Checking your Appearance

Resources (including affiliate links)

013 Never Heard Anything After The Interview010 Interviewing with Confidence003 Branding, Interviewing and Online Applications [Hot Mic] 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:00 – 00:05:01

Aw. Welcome to job seekers radio. I’m Andrew, and I’m Scott this production is meant to provide you meaningful support defiant. Great careers faster. Whether you’re working or not today seekers radio we cover the nine mistakes to avoid when you’re interviewing now, this is a favorite topic for us. We talk to people all the time about interviewing skills. There are classes probably every economic of every employment development office in the country. There are many resources to end yet. We find that. It is probably a hidden talent market for those who truly interview. Well, and I’m not talking about those who quote interview. Well, and then turn out to be something else. Once they get on the job were just talking about having a good interviewing conversation. So the first mistake to avoid actually is not doing any research on the company or the people you. You’re about to meet, right? I can’t tell you. How many people have come in? When I’ve been interviewing to hire. They come in thinking that their skills will speak for themselves. And they haven’t done the research, I pick up on it right away. And most people do I’m not I’m not special here. Wait a minute. It’s got to read my resume yet. Probably did which is why you’re here today. But if you haven’t shown enough interest in my company to actually know what to talk about it’s gonna show right away. And that can be a very quick disqualifier. And it’s a small investment of your time to overlook this is just nonsensical. Right. Just doesn’t make any sense. We have the internet his days and most companies have an internet presence. Now. Maybe they’re not really good. If you’re with a small company, maybe they haven’t done something that that is really friendly on your phone, but they still probably have a website. You can find out something about them. Just doing. Google search class horror glass to work series. I be so surprised if there wasn’t a whole bunch of stuff on glass door that you can learn about that company right now, it is a simple mistake that simply should not happen. And in full disclosure, I’ve done that. And I realized once I walk in. I don’t have enough information. And I can’t blame them when they don’t call me back because I didn’t show enough caring to do that research. There’s no excuse. I mean, whatever the motivation is it could be that. You don’t want the position, but they invited you for an interview anyway. Yeah. Still just because now my professional credibility is on the line. Of course, we’ll get to excuses in a moment. But the next mistake to avoid is not prepared for the standard questions that you know, everybody’s going to ask right? I would say nine interviews out of ten have five or six very basic questions things like tell me about yourself. What should we know about you that really doesn’t have a? Well, it has many meanings or purposes as it does people who ask they want the conversation to start. They want to know a little bit about you. And they want to know why they should listen to you beyond the your answer be prepared with something. They wanna know that you’ve done your homework, and that that you’ve probably practice something before you got there, and they’re not practicing these questions. So the thing is you can practice your answers over and over again, and they’ll get different answers from every applicant the more prepared. You are the better off you’re gonna sound and the more you can impress them. If impressing them as what you’re going and just saying, yeah, I can do that. That is not an answer to question the standard questions are trying to find out about what is your thinking process. How do you speak to people? Have you done your homework both about the company and about the job, if you know something about me on a professional level as if my reputation has preceded me that will make me feel good as. As well. But that’s going to take some effort on your part. So you want to be able to answer these questions in ways that actually resonate with them? And the chances are pretty good that if you can find out about their company values, you’ll figure out a way to answer them to respond to those values. That’s right. That brings us to the third mistake to avoid which is assuming you’re good enough. And this comes from a mindset of superiority, right? And we’re not talking about. Oh, I’m good enough. And I’m smart enough, and I can make people happy. You know? I’m not Stuart Smalley it. We’re talking about that lack of effort that goes into. Oh, I’ve done so many interviews. I can wing it and be fine. The chances are pretty good that you may not do as well as you think. And it’s not likely that you’re gonna make it to the Super Bowl just winging it right? Just say, oh, I’m good enough. Those teams never make it to the Super Bowl right seriously. It takes practice. It takes experience. The more interviews you go on the better.

00:05:01 – 00:10:01

You get at it. But it’s not just because you’ve been on a lot. It’s because you’ve been making the effort. I tell you when I was a performer in my youth. I could remember what my my vocal coach was telling me. So when I was singing, I could do it again. And finally when I was in college, I had a vocal coach who could tell when I had practiced. And she nailed me on this. I was shamed of myself. But finally, somebody said no, you don’t get away with this. The same thing is true in interviewing if you’re not really making the effort to improve you’re not going to improve and people are going to know it. It’s not like you can hide it. You may think you’re good enough. But when you go in and you give it a male in performance, they’re going to say, thanks, but no, thanks. And you’re gonna wonder huff wonder why they didn’t pick me and you hit it right there. We’re not talking about nervousness. Although we’ll talk about that in a second. Everybody gets nervous before these things, and that’s to be expected, and it’s forgiven. This is more the idea that when you haven’t done your part. It becomes obvious. You’re phoning it in if you’re phoning it in your probably gonna phone it in on the job. Don’t think I’m going to hire. But it’s going to translate near non verbals, right? You’ll be disinterested. You won’t be looking people in the eye. Right. It’s just not good prepare like it’s a Super Bowl. Right. Really? Every not interested in that position. You really aren’t if you’re going to walk in and it’s obvious you’re disinterested. Now, you’re wasting their time. I had one person years ago suggest that going into an interview for which you don’t, you know, you don’t want the job you just want practice. That’s theft. You’re stealing time that they can’t get back. Don’t do it. It’s just not respectful. I agree with that one hundred percent. So that brings us to the next mistake to avoid in. That’s not having any questions prepared to ask the hiring team. And this is something that is so easy to do. And there’s gotta be something you want to know about them the company the position of the environment. Whatever. Be. There’s gotta be something you want to know or have an answer to. And if you need advice on what kinds of questions to right. There are going to be a lot of people out there who can help you the ones that come to my mind. I are can you tell me what a Dan the life of this position looks like that is an open ended question that elicits of thoughtful response. They may not be prepared for that. So it may take a minute think about it. And they’re probably going to be more honest about it as a result. It’s questions like that. What does this? What does success look like for this role? How would you describe the person who left this position and what they did? Well, and what you’d like to see them do differently? These are all things that make them understand that you’ve thought about this. That’s the message you want to send. So having those questions they’re written down demonstrates professionalism. Right that you’re prepared for that. And when they ask you have something to give them I can’t tell you how many times people get to the end of the. View even though they may be wrote down some questions they didn’t write down enough because they got all their questions answered. And he’s still like the thing is that you are interviewing the company it’s really important that you prepared to interview them as well, one of the nicest things somebody said to me was when they said, oh, well, it feels like you’re interviewing me, it’s a price me when she said that. But I told her I am I am because this has got to be a win win all fit. Yeah. It’s all about the fit that brings us to the next mistake to avoid not knowing anyone on the inside or having a lack of internal champion. There are a lot of times. We’ll see jobs posted at companies that we’ve been interested in. But we haven’t been able to network our way into the organization that’s not completely avoidable. With that said there are ways for us to find people with similar backgrounds or similar education, and we can find this on Lincoln. There’s usually some commonality somewhere. One person or two people that we know that have a connection somehow work that as best you can try and get some kind of commonality established before you walk into an interview before you even apply, right? Would be even better this the farther up the chain of influence that you can go before there’s a post a position doesn’t make it feel like you’re doing it for various circuits shore Reiter, or that your self interested. And this comes back to the research. Hopefully, anyone listening to this podcast is going to know that the ideas that we champion is to do your research to look into companies that interest you for whatever reason. No, what that reason is do research. Find out the people who work there, the people that you know, who know people who work there two jobs values that they have the things that they do both professionally and what they do for their community. All of this is a way to find ways to network into the organization, and you’re a distinct advantage when you.

00:10:01 – 00:15:01

Do that well in advance of any posted position? So that leads us to our next mistake when interviewing you want to avoid forgetting to follow up. If you haven’t sent a thank you note after an interview shame on you. If you have any kind of networking opportunity with someone in or adjacent to the organization follow up with that person. Whether they have introduced you to somebody else follow up include them in the follow up with the person introduce you to if there’s any questions that have been unanswered follow up with the answer. Because that shows that once you’re in the job, you’ll probably follow up then to and that’s going to be a keystone to their experience with you. And it’s going to differentiate you so many people. I mean, if you’re not doing it, guess what? Most of the other people are doing it either. Make sure that I I’m kind of old school this way. I write a handwritten. Thank you know. In addition to an Email, and then I am very clear about. The next step. I might be wrong about the next step. But if they don’t give me a next up I’m going to tell them what it is. Maybe I’m just proactive that way. Right. I feel like the next step is the conversation with the VP or put just putting together the offer doing a background check checking references, whatever that is give them something. I agree. I think we’re talking about differentiating ourselves having a handwritten note is a really good way to do it. One best practice that. I encourage people to use is to have those. Thank you notes and in the envelope. Obviously not written out yet in the envelope in the portfolio, you take in with your written questions. Because at when the interview is finished, I can go into that company lobby or maybe I go out to the car, but preferably in the building. I’m going to write that. Thank you right now. I will reference the things that I talked about in the interview thank them again. And then before I leave the building give that to the person at the fr. Front desk to say will you please forward this to so? And so if I haven’t had the sense to get their business card, at least, I should remember their first name, the receptionist is going to know who you just visited if they have a receptionist. Here’s your opportunity to knock it out of the park. But you have to plan ahead. Take it with you. It doesn’t take that much face now four or five pre written cards with an address or on it. It doesn’t it takes two minutes. But it will set you apart from the the all the other applicants who haven’t done that and is virtually immediate that can be impressive to a lot of people that don’t get physical mail anymore. Follow up is the most important step without a doubt that brings us to the next mistake to avoid in. That is a lack of self awareness of your transferable skills, meaning becoming the solution to the problem. They want salt and having that kind of a wear -ness of who you are the strengths you bring to the table, and how you can help them is really going to differentiate you from other of applicant and pr-. Previous podcast. We were giving some answers to people questioning, you know, how do I handle a resume that shows job hopping? It’s the confidence that people are going to remember far more than the jobs that you’ve had in your past. So if you know, the skills that you have that you’ve been able to practice and all these other jobs that you’ve had knowing about how it applies to the job. You’re applying for is going to be how they then take it in. Oh, well, this person has transferable skill that would apply in this way. They’re not going to tease that out of you. They want you to know that be prepared with that information walking in. They’re not gonna rely out red carpet for you. You know, you have to know these things about yourself and you have to prepare a response to every potential question. They’re going to ask you about your skills as relates to the company, and that’s a really good point. Let’s say they throw a curve ball at you. Here comes a pinch that you chest warned expecting that question. It’s okay. To think about it. It’s. Going to feel a lot longer of a pause. And it really is give it some thought and give a thoughtful answer as you go. And let’s say you don’t answer the way you want start over they’re going to appreciate that. You are confident enough to send you know. This is not saying what I mean, let me restart this. And it’s that moment of humility that they’re actually going to appreciate because they’ve been there. They know what it’s like to interview. They’re just on the other side of the coin. Now, you’ve got to have that sense of awareness of what you bring to the table the value that you can add to what they’re already doing. When you can articulate that that brings the confidence that you need to help them. Connect the dots. If you don’t know this or you’re not confident on it practice, it that brings us to our next mistake to avoid and that’s relying too heavily on nervousness. I would call this more like excuse Itis is relying on some excuse that you can.

00:15:01 – 00:20:00

Answer a question because oh, gee, I’m nervous. I’m nervous or I’d never had that question before. Or you know, I I was up late last night with my kids, and I didn’t get any sleep. Yeah. You know, whatever it is. Nobody wants an excuse now with that said, there are reasons. Yes, I’m nervous. That’s a reason that I’m not speaking as eloquently as I might otherwise, they know your nervous if you’re not nervous. Maybe there’s something else. That’s wrong, really relying on my excuses. My crutches really makes me look bad. Because if you’re going to do that in the interview, are you going to rely on your excuses in the workplace, this is a disqualifier if you’re nervous, but you’re trying and it’s obvious. You’re trying that speaks well of you. If you come back to awhile, I’m not answering this well because I’m nervous. Okay. Well, how do we help you? If you’re gonna rely on your crutches. I can’t help you. That’s a sign of somebody who’s either not prepared experienced or whatever. And you’re right. It is a disqualifier. But the way you mitigate that is by preparing crazy right for any potential question. Maybe even do in a mock interview with live human being. Yes, I highly recommend practicing you’re interviewing skills with someone who is is either experienced at interviewing as an applicant or someone who’s experienced interviewing other people as a hiring manager or as a recruiter. There are recruiters out there who will be happy to help you by doing this there. You just have to ask avoid excuses. Please always look for solutions. Always overlap your skills to what problem you think you can solve for them. So that brings us to our next mistake to avoid when interviewing and that is not checking your appearance so often we hear from people who complain that. There’s too much importance placed on how I look. Well, there is good reason why most beings whether it’s human or otherwise. Care about the way the other individual looks. There’s the typical friend or foe question. Right. It’s instinctual. So when you see someone who looks like you who or who looks like you want to get to know them, you’re going to build interest on the other side. If you’re not coming up with an appearance that is appropriate to the conversation. You’re going to have that now is taking their attention. Personally, the way I view it is I don’t want anything about my parents to be the first thing we talk about. I don’t even want my parents to come up in the conversation, unless it’s wow, you dress really well that Altay beyond that. I don’t want my appearance to be a part of the conversation at all. So you have to be mindful of what the other person is expecting and then opens the door pretty wide. Well, this is something you can ask the HR person, the scheduling interview, you know, what sort of what’s the? Tire. What is the standard business casual business casual defies that define that for me because business casual it Nike is much different than business casual at Arthur Andersen. Yes, censure, maybe I’m dating myself. But I grew up with the idea that this is casual is the same thing as business only without the tie in some instances business, casual is jeans and sneakers, and maybe a blazer in others. It’s dress pants and dress shoes, but nobly nobler. So find out from the person who is scheduling the interview what the appropriate attire would be if it’s a networking event that takes on a less formal attitude. You can be a little a little more fluid with that. But when it comes to the interview find out what the expectation is and meet it, plus one, I’m always the type to be early for an interview because it gives me a chance to make sure that get to the right place. Right. Check my fly. If you know what I mean? But but going into the. Restroom going to the bathroom if you have to because when you’re nervous, right? Your stuff’s working a little bit faster than it should. So not in common that you have to go the restroom. So you get there early go to the restroom in any check the mirror, and while you are moving through the building you can check the appearance of other people in the office. And I generally when I say meet the expectation plus one that means that I want to be slightly dressed better than I need to be one because there’s an element of self respect. If I respect myself enough that I wanna put my best foot forward that shows. Also, if you give yourself enough time, and you see that you’re coming in the the person’s has business attire. But maybe I brought a tight anyway. And I’m seeing other people who clearly work here. And there in ties I’m gonna put that tie on if on the other side, they say business casual, but I’m gonna wear a tie to impress. And I don’t see another tying in the building. I should probably take my tie off. So that I fit in. Because again, they wanna see me fit.

00:20:00 – 00:22:52

In when they’re there. There’s nothing that says that when you get into the interview room that you can’t take off your blazer and drape it over the back of your chair short of that looks like right, especially if the interviewer does the same thing now, you are Mirroring their behavior, which is a different topic, which I think we’ve touched on another podcast, but that may be a topic that we address in greater detail. But there are ways for you to fit in when it matters. And in the interview it matters. And well, don’t forget your note by that. I mean, you should probably understand what owners presenting to somebody. So I know people that smoke what you might wanna do is make sure that you’re you’re closer dry-cleaned and don’t smoke, but right before the interview and wash your hands if you do smoke, make sure that your your hands are clean. Take a breath mint smell your pits. Whatever it takes whatever. It is. Right. Sure. There’s no odor there because that is part of your appearance and on the other side, please don’t wear a lot of perfume or Cologne. Some people are really sensitive to that. And if it if it’s your lock that someone who reacts really strongly too heavy Cologne is the one doing the interview you can actually end the interview faster and not in a good way by because they can’t acce right? Be if you’re going to wear any fragrance at all make sure it’s light and lightweight brush. Don’t do it. Right. Before you go in there. I generally I do like to wear fragrance, but I put it on the skin under my clothes. So it gets filtered. And there is there are some of them out there that are so strong that they still come on strongly outside the close. So I don’t wear those two interviews. I wear those when I’m going out to special events when I know I’m going to be outside. Yeah. Well, that brings us to the end of this episode the nine mistakes to avoid when interviewing we’ll have show notes available to you their resources there and define them. Go to job seekers radio dot com forward slash zero four zero. We also have a free resource for you is called the anatomy of a network in conversation. It’s an e book that Scott, I have put together to help you implement some of the ideas we’re talking about here. We hope you find value in that. In the meantime, thank you for joining us for this episode of job seekers radio, your investment of time and your attention are truly appreciated head on over to itunes. There’s a link at the top of the show notes to do that it’ll allow you to subscribe to get future episodes, and you can actually leave us a rate and review their we’d really appreciate the feedback because we wanna make this a better product for you and the other people that find this resource because you share it with them. Yes. Please do and thank you in advance for doing. So my name is Scott. And I’m Andrew thank you. So. So much until next time prior preparation prevents poor performance by now.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Networking can present some new and unique situations, especially if you are looking for work. Andrew and Scott discuss the biggest mistakes to avoid when networking for jobs.

7 Mistakes To Avoid

1. Talking About Yourself Non-Stop
2. Not Asking Questions
3. Not Talking About Yourself At All
4. Not Asking For Referrals
5. Introducing Your Resume
6. Not Following Up
7. Demanding Employment

Resources (including affiliate links)

 4-Part Series on the Anatomy of a Networking ConversationJSR 015: The Set-Up
JSR 016: The Icebreaker JSR 017: The Question and AnswerJSR 018: The Ask 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:00 – 00:05:01

Jobseeker’s radio. I’m Andrew, and I’m Scott this production is meant to provide you meaningful support to find great careers faster. Whether you’re working or not today job seekers radio we talk about mistakes to avoid win networking, right? The first thing that I tell people is something I have done. In fact, I I want to preface this that all of these mistakes. We’re going to talk about today I’ve done and I have to both of us have. So I’m speaking from experience what not to do because it’s usually embarrassing once I’ve realized that this what I’ve done and the first thing that came to mind when the question came up was talking about myself nonstop networking should be a two way street. So if I’m doing the talking that becomes a problem, and they talk you’ll hear people talk about good communication is an eighty twenty. You do eighty percent listening and twenty percent talking. And then if you feel like it’s fifty. Fifty probably been talking too much. I’m not gonna argue with that. I don’t think the percentage is really important. But I find that my own style is one where I’m going to make connections that that’s where I go. I and so as I’m talking to someone and they say something resonates with me. I don’t take the time to really listen deeply to what they’re saying. And ask them questions to dive in. What I what I instinctively do is connect by saying, oh, I did the same thing or I had a similar experience or you know, I have this commonality, and it’s not because I’m trying to talk. It’s that I’m trying to connect. But that doesn’t always come across that way. Well in our insecurities come out to right. Oh, never do. Well, so here it is. You know, we’re talking about ourselves because we’re nervous were insecure. We don’t know what we should be saying if we haven’t done a lot of networking is really hard to not fill the air with something. Right something. What was most ourselves? So. Sometimes it just feels like you’re talking non stop and the other person just kind of tuning out, maybe even looking at their phone looking over their shoulder. So just recognize that, you know, when you’re talking too much when somebody just kinda glazes over and stops paying attention, and they’re not engaged in any kind of dialogue. Right. So what do you do when you find yourself in that situation? Ask questions. Yep. Yep. So I mean, that’s the second thing that we need to talk about his, hey, not asking questions is one of the biggest mistakes you can avoid when doing networking. Yes. And make sure that the questions that you ask actually make sense generally the best way to do that. As to ask a question based on what the other person just said, that’s the definition of deep listening. You’ll hear people talk about it as active listening, you want to allow at least for the time being the other person to guide the conversation, and you can do that by asking questions about. Oh, well, tell me more about that. Or how did that work out for you? Or, you know. What did you learn from that? And these are ways for that to keep them talking. But that you’re truly interested because you’re always listening to understand not just to reply course, that also leads to another mistake. And that is not talking about yourself at all. And that is huge for me. Because I always try to go in asking questions letting the other person talk so much that I feel like, wow, I had a great conversation. But what did I really achieve unless I have an objective for that conversation. Why am I there? And so I really think that this idea of asking questions is something that some people miss, but I asked so many questions that I never get a chance to say anything for myself, the meeting is over, and I didn’t get a chance to say anything I like the idea of approaching networking as having a purpose. Having a reason for going to this networking event or going to this networking coffee with an individual whatever it is that you’re doing you want this to be a. Two way street. If you’re asking only questions, you may come across as being an interrogator, and that’s just as bad as an over talker. How do you find the balance? Well, where there is commonality what I found to be a good practice for me is to go ahead and make that connection. Oh, I had a similar experience. When I did that. Now, I ask another question. Tell me more about your experience. Because once I’ve planted the seed that I’ve had something similar in my background. I’m hoping that the other person will ask me about it. And so we really can get that balance. If you’ve scheduled a meeting, and let’s say that meeting is twenty minutes in the first ten minutes you’ve done nothing, but ask questions of this person. You may want to look at the watch and say, hey, is it okay with you? If I share a little bit about me and what I’m trying to accomplish with this this. So really there’s an opportunity for you to pivot the conversation ear direction by asking permission. And I found that that’s a awesome way to put it is that hey, we talked about.

00:05:01 – 00:10:01

What about you? And I’m really I want support you in any way. Again, is it? Okay. If I share with you a little bit about me. So then I can pivot and start talking about myself. And that’s that’s something. I had to learn right. I was just about to say that may not feel natural the first time you try it. It probably won’t feel natural get used to it. It’s a really good way to shift a conversation. And what I’ve found is when you say when you ask the person can I share a little bit about myself. I have never heard them say, no, I have never had anyone say no start the conversation by getting a yes here, you have an opportunity to get a yes. The alignment the connection happens. It’s a really good tool. There are also those who talk about not, but and instead of saying, but in the middle of a sentence you say, and so you’re not negating what came before it. This is one of those skills. At that. Asking permission isn’t really what we’re taught as children as we grow up by mastering this. You will have a skill that will serve you in more than just networking. It will serve you throughout your career. And that brings us to the next mistake you should avoid and that is not asking for referrals have. So we talked about talking about herself too much not talking enough leaving time if you have an abbreviated amount of time make sure you leave time at the end to ask for referrals, right? And not doing that really is a waste of time. I mean, you just wait. Well, I don’t know if there’s a waste of time. You’re certainly having a dialogue or it may mean that you leverage another conversation. So at the end, you should have some sort of call to action or thing that you wanna have come out of it that you let them know about up front, right? So that you can say, hey, I appreciate your time. I was really looking for introductions to these kind of people at this kind of company or this specific write this comes back to the idea that we’ve talked about in the past. About always having a project to work on because everyone likes to give information and advice. Here’s an opportunity in terms of referrals. If you’re working on something that somehow relates to the kind of work that you do asking if they know someone who could give information or advice on that project is a way of getting referrals. It’s not necessarily. Hey, can you introduce me to somebody who’s hiring? It’s really about. How do I expand my network? How do I throw the net a little further? And so as I’m asking for more information on asking for advice on whatever it is. I’m working on people get charged up when they’re given an opportunity to provide that kind of input. If you’re really struggling on how to ask for a referral. That’s at simple, wait to try it out and referrals. Don’t need to be this big thing that you’re nervous about asking. Right. Again. It requires some kind of preparation practice. It’s not uncommon that we. Recommend people write down other questions in advance. Cause you may get into the fray, and you forget or your nervous. And you forget either way if you write them down in advance, you can say, hey, I know we talked around a lot of things I did write down some questions. Do you mind? If I look at these questions and make sure everything is right. It’s complete with our conversation, and people may be afraid that that may seem to canned or two constructed. Well, it also sends the message that you were looking forward to this conversation enough that you had the foresight to prepare for it that is a showing respect. So that you don’t wanna waste the other person’s time if it turns out the conversation has gone completely outside the scope of where you wanted to go. But it’s been a really good conversation. There’s nothing wrong with that. But to your point you may want to have another conversation with them at another time because maybe you have an established enough trust for them to give you anything that. Thank you very much. I appreciate the coffee. But right now, I think writing down questions and having them ready is a good idea. No matter the event that you’re going to whether it’s a group of aunt or just a one on one. It’s always a good idea to be prepared that brings us to the next mistake to in void. And that is introducing your resume. Please don’t give your resume at a networking event. It shows that you had an ulterior motive and that kills your credibility. If they’re truly interested in having your resume offer it after the fact get their business card their Email address, if they want to text message to them if you can attach the document on your phone, whatever don’t give them the resume when they ask at a networking event. I don’t trust somebody who comes in with that in mind because that means that I’m not sure why they were talking to me. Well, they were interested in their selves. I not interested.

00:10:01 – 00:15:01

A new Scott, right? Sorry. Don’t do it. Stay away. It’s a huge mistake. And I’ve done it before. And I’ve had it done to me. And it just takes the conversation from something that’s organic authentic benefit for both parties to something that you don’t want it to be remember to the idea that people shut down when you ask them if they know about who’s hiring or where the jobs are because we want to help other people when we don’t have an answer to that question. Now, I’m afraid now, which is almost always. Yeah, they almost always never plugged into an opportunity, right, especially if they’re a friend or coworker or something former co they might not even be in a position to hire any bright. And they may be a company that they are not allowed to have these conversations without some kind of process, right? Because maybe it’s highly regulated or number of other reasons, please please do not take your resume to of networking event or a one on one. Offer it after the fact it gives you an opportunity to follow up, which as I say every time follow up is the most important step of any process. Don’t give it at the event. That’s actually the next mistake. Not following us. Right. I’ve seen this. So mean, even today this happened to me, I introduced somebody who’s fairly influential in a target company. And I had to ask the guy for the feedback in the follow up. Like what happened I introduced this person? So really you’re ever think of it this way when you’re networking, you’re building reputation, and you want that reputation to be yours not by accident. And when you’re not following up with somebody you’re building a reputation that what I gave you or the contribution. I made to you was not worthy. You’re letting other people write the story. Follow up is going to serve you. Well, every single time it is necessary to know, whether or not your efforts have actually landed if you just let things lie. By then maybe you’ll see something good. Maybe you won’t. But you won’t know what effect you actually had. And when that happens. I know personally if someone is working with me, and they just disappear. I think less of that individual not, you know, on a human level. I’m they still deserve happiness. Do I really want to invest in that happiness? Why don’t forget to follow up all ways follow whatever that looks like just make sure you do it. Right. You know, a phone call an Email, a thank you card, whatever that looks like just do it. And don’t let how long does it take to send? It doesn’t take anything. Right. If you have the Email address for heaven’s sake. Send them. Thank you that brings us to the next mistake to avoid which is demanding employment. Not uncommon that people came to me through all line posting, right? They see a job that’s posted. They see I’m working at the company and the go full court press on me saying, hey. Can you put me in for this job? Can you recommend me for this job, can please? Please, please. Yes. Now, if it’s a really good friend of mine than of known for a long time that I trust could do this job. Well, that’s okay. That person has already established the trust. If he or she were to come to me and say, hey, I saw this at your company can you please put into good word. Of course. I’m going to most of the time these kinds of requests come in to people that may be I talked to three years ago. And we connect on Lincoln. I’m not going to feel as comfortable with that. Now. I may say, yes, I’ll introduce you to the recruiter, but I’m not going to feel as comfortable giving recommendation about you. If I can’t make a credible recommendation. The demand of employment may not be give me this job. If I’m at a networking event, especially and but it could be just in casual conversation. And I find out that this person somehow has a connection to the job. For me to press at all. I find inappropriate it comes across as demand. Even if that isn’t my language, I think is doubly a mistake when you actually tell somebody you’re just interested in meeting for informal conversation. And then they show up and say, hey, I’m looking for a job. Can you help me up in having a dialogue with somebody? I’m now in the employment category. Where I just don’t know what to do. And I’m asking you to fill in the blanks for me coming unprepared and all those things and coming to a networking event. Unprepared. Almost as bad as coming to an interview. Unprepared. It means that you didn’t value this interaction. Well, if you didn’t value it enough to do the homework. Why are you asking for my time? Now with that said if it’s just a networking conversation. It’s just a conversation. Keep it just a conversation allow the employment opportunity to happen naturally. And if it doesn’t then when you are asking for the referrals.

00:15:01 – 00:16:20

Maybe you come up and say, you know, we we’ve talked on this. This isn’t the purpose of my meeting with you. But I am looking for a job. And and what you’ve said actually resonated. I’m wondering perhaps at some point. We might be able to talk about that. And then let them pursue it or not to come in and just suddenly pivot to your job search it. It kills your credibility. Well that does it for this episode of job seekers radio. You can find all the show notes in resources in this episode job seekers radio dot com forward slash zero three nine we have a free resource for you as well. In the show notes to look at downloading the anatomy of network king conversation. It’s an e book that Andrew I’ve put together we hope enjoy it. We thank you for joining us during this episode of job seekers radio, your investment of time and attention is immeasurably appreciated, right? Head over to itunes and subscribe to future episodes. And while you’re there, we’d be really. Gratefully? If you provide a a rate and review for us. It helps us to spread the word, but we also want to hear back if there’s something you want us to talk about if there’s something that we could do better for you. We wanna know about it lime Andrew, and I’m Scott until next time. It may be mad now, but it will get better take care everybody.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

You can ask us questions!  Use the Contact button above or leave your questions in the comments below.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Is it a bad idea to quit a job over an abusive boss? by XNekoGhostX
• Would an employer rather see continuous long term employment in one position, or shorter positions (6-12 months) in various positions IF it was showing professional growth? by mrsabf
• Can I leave some jobs off my resume? by NumerousImprovements
• 18 and ready to graduate high school. Curious if what I want to do is a viable option? by The_pomade_prince
• I’m 24 and was just passed up for a significant promotion. I don’t feel like there is much left for me at this company, what do I do? by Metesheriff

Resources (including affiliate links)

Mike Rowe Works FoundationSimon Sinek TED Talk: How Leaders Inspire Action (Golden Circle) 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:00 – 00:05:00

<music>? This is a production man to provide meaningful support to find great careers faster. Whether you’re working or not today on job seekers radio were actually answering a plethora of questions from read it at least four or five whatever we have time for. That’s right. And so we often find that there’s a lot of great content and support unread it as a platform so that you can get farther along in your career, right? There are more than five questions on read it. But we’ve chosen a few to address today there will be some others in the future. But this is a good place to start the first one that we’re going to address here is from Nico ghost. Who wrote isn’t a bad idea to quit a job over an abusive boss, and the back story is I’ve been working at this job for over five months now, and it was fun. But lately, my boss has been meaner and meaner to me like she’ll tell me, I’m worthless one minute. And then tell me I’m doing a great job the next and co workers have been telling me that. She talks about me behind my back saying I do nothing while I’m in the middle of doing something it’s gotten so bad that other co workers are trying to protect me as best. They can I really don’t want to quit as loved the job itself. But my boss makes me want to cry every day, and it’s hard to find jobs in my area. Anyway. So should I stick it out? Or would it be better to move on? And find a new job. Yes. Always be looking for a new job. That’s great advice. Those of us who have been through sales for any length of time in our careers know that a good salesman never stops. Looking now with that said the abuse needs to stop. And if you have not yet had a conversation about how you feel about these interactions that would be the first step and a lot of people are intimidated, or they feel like they can’t have that conversation because they don’t know how to give that kind of feedback without it seeming like an accusation. We’ll name might be afraid to get fired. Exactly you go any kind of retaliation. Yeah. I mean, I don’t wanna be looking over my shoulder either. Right because in environment where you want to build trust with your co workers. You don’t want the boss hamstring India? You’ll also on your coworkers to do all the work for you. Because that is going to do as packed your confidence. I always recommend people. Ask permission. Meaning whenever you have an observation you’re making about a superior or somebody that you don’t feel comfortable having a conversation with. Hey, scott. You know, would it be okay. If I share something with you. I think might be helpful for both of us to make our career or work load here better. Yeah. I think that’s a great idea. Because now you’re actively engaging them before you talk about what’s difficult by by doing. So you’re starting the conversation with a yes, if they say, no, I don’t have time then bring it up later. But the idea is you do want to engage them with them making the first. Choice to say yes at that point. I usually go with the SBA model for giving feedback and that is situation behavior impact. Basically what you do is you set up the feedback by putting it in a situation. Like if something has happened with your boss where she has made this comment that your worthless. This morning when we were talking, and then you’ve you’ve put it in the situation you then provide observable behavior use said, I was worthless. Now, you don’t want to think for them by saying you’re angry, or you’re you’re interpreting there because the facts just the fast share the fact exactly so the situation this morning when we were talking you said, I was worthless. And then the third step is giving the impact because no one can argue with the feelings that you had or the impact that it had on you because you’re only speaking for yourself. So this morning when we were talking you said, I was worthless. That really undermined my confidence in my work. Now, she can’t argue with that. She might say, oh, you shouldn’t have that. That’s not to her to decide what you should or shouldn’t feel by providing this information. Your now starting the conversation about what happened for you without pointing fingers at her if she handles it poorly. I think the next step is. Yes, you should be looking for another job. In the meantime, you probably want to look for another job anyway. Because abuse is never okay. Once you drop that bomb on your boss, though, you should probably not just let it lie there certainly give him an opportunity to respond, right? But give him an opportunity to say. Hey, here’s how I would actually do. Well, here’s what actually works better for me. So I can be an advocate for what experience I want as an employee instead of doing this.

00:05:00 – 00:10:06

Here’s what would be helpful for me. Exact share that with you. That’s another. Yes yet. Right. The anytime. You can get another. Yes. I’ve really appreciate is. If you just come to me and say, how do you want this work done and ensure with the details of that? So that I can provide you what you want, and you can be successful another thing, then you can do with that specific scenario is to ask the person to please elaborate on what they actually meant. If they were sincere in in saying, I think you’re worthless. I think that’s good information have habit doesn’t feel good. But at least you’re getting them to make the commitment to that statement. If it was just being said in the heat of the moment, that’s something that that individual leader can avoid in the future. So in any case what you’re doing is asking for more of their story to figure out what really is behind it. Because if in fact, you’re able to engage in a healthy conversation now, you can go further to say this isn’t going to work for me in the future. Now, obviously, I don’t think anyone should say it that way. But when you tell the supervisor. This is what works for me to get more from me. The supervisor would be stupid not to do it. Right. If it’s within that person’s capability there. There’s there are a lot of things that can be said. But ultimately, providing a solution is a really good idea if you can get there on the other side, if you have had these kinds of conversations before if you have tried other things if you’ve had any kind of mediator whether formal or informal sit in on some these conversations, and it still hasn’t worked the chances are pretty good that this individual is not going to change, and it would probably be in your best interest to find a better position. Even if there aren’t a lot of jobs in your area. Just continuing the job search can create a sense of hope in yourself. So that you can be more resilient in these negative situations. It gives you options you you now have options to do. Do what it is. You wanna do? And look at this as a great career development opportunity because often I’ve seen it personally. I don’t know if this is your experience, Scott, but I’ve seen it often that people end up in leadership positions on accident. But they’d never been given any leadership training or they don’t know how to manage people returned. So they think they should manage people by telling them what to do. Right. And if they have moved up without any kind of training, they may provide the same kind of leadership they had which could be just as bad. But if they don’t know anything better they’re going to keep doing it so Meco ghost. What you can do is look at this as a career development opportunity right at you can practice this process, which is actually going to help you become a leader yourself. The way you handle the little things is way the handle the big things and often we learn how to lead people by learning what we’re not going to do from the leaders. We’ve had so keep it in a journal write keep. Journal of things not to do seriously that it again, it helps you to reframe the situation if it is truly abusive, and you get more of this down talk for lack of a better term where she’s insulting you talking behind your back isn’t necessarily something you need to worry about because that’s not a reflection on you people may not view it that way all the time. But really that’s gossip is a reflection of the person giving it so just don’t engage don’t do the same thing. Stay above that. Well, we don’t wanna make any sumptious. This is some garden variety short abusive situation. So it could be worse than it actually is. Yeah. And they’re just not sharing that with us. So if that’s the case, you certainly want to talk to folks, if you have an HR department, there’s probably people in HR, these should be talking to you should also document these things when they happen and CYA if it gets bad, you might also want to your department of labor in your state, right? We’re in your country, or what have you there’s typically? An organization with the government. That’s there to help you in these events. And where I found is if you don’t document those in advance, you don’t have any repercussion or standing right after you get terminated. And if your company has an e AP an employee assistant assistance program, it’s usually a third party who has an eight hundred number that you can call them making give you advice if this is truly an abusive or a hostile work environment situation. They can actually get involved in helping to report it, and they will give you really good advice on how to protect yourself in that process. Hopefully, this individual isn’t in that kind of a situation. But if it is if you are then the chances are you’d need to get a professional involved as well. I think we covered all the bases on that one. So Scott so that brings us to the next question, which is by MRs AB, f with an employer rather see continuous long-term in.

00:10:06 – 00:15:03

In one position or shorter position six to twelve months in various roles, if it was showing professional growth, I know in. Here’s the back story. I know that job bouncing is frowned upon. I am a junior in college and adult learner. So I have a fulltime job that had been in for a year. But by previous jobs were six to nine months in length. I have always moved up in either pay when moving to a new job company morale or job description. So of course, it made sense once I graduate, I will be looking for an HR position. But without the bachelor’s degree. I’m not given a second glance. So I’m trying to look for positions that will veer more towards HR when I graduate. So I will have the experience plus a degree everyone wants. But I worried that leaving another job will only make me look worse. Should I stay at my current customer service job until I graduate or continue the path of trying to move up to do. It makes sense for my future goals. That’s a mouthful. So there’s a lot of components that are so great question. I think there’s really three things that I’m hearing here. One is what people think of me based on my paper resume, right? And so really that’s the question. She’s asking yourself. How do I look on paper because people are giving me a second glance? Well, it might not be the fact that you had a bunch of different jobs. It may be that they never looked at your resume. Even though you send it in. Let’s be clear that just having something on paper doesn’t make it true. And certainly doesn’t isn’t a good barometer of skill competency, or what have you right, one of the things about a resume that I tell people that I’ve coached is that it is only a snapshot of the past. It is not the application your official application needs to show all of the jobs that that you’ve had, but you resume is just to give an idea of how you might fit in the role and within the organization so as far as that’s concerned if you aren’t putting every. Thing on your resume that seems to be okay. Most hiring managers, certainly from my own perspective as I have been recruiting and and hiring. I’m not so much worried about what’s on the resume. When looking for is those transferable skills or direct skills that will apply to the job for which I’m hiring? And if I think the way the grammar is used or whatever it is the other elements how they may show a fit, quite frankly in terms of job bouncing, I wouldn’t worry so much about that. We’ve talked in previous podcasts about used to be that you would you know cradle to grave with one company. And now the longest somebody is in the tenure is about forty six months. Yeah. And it’s going down. Yeah. Jumping from job to job isn’t what it used to be. It’s not as bad of a thing. It’s actually more common. So again, I wouldn’t worry about that much. Either. The third thing that that I’m seeing is the the discussion about. Moving into HR having done that myself. I was going for my masters screen HR. I got my certification with both HR CI and Sherm and all of this. I was struck when the college that I was going to from a master’s degree said in their description of the HR masters program that a master’s degree in HR would prepare me for an entry level position. And at that why? Yeah, why am I going to spend thousands and thousands of dollars to get a masters degree to start from scratch, and the reason is many people whether it’s HR or other departments a lot of people will hire and promote people based on the way they were hired and promoted they don’t want anyone else to have a faster route to success than what they had if you’re being screened out because you haven’t had X number of years of experience, plus this degree and that certification everything else. I would say keep looking. For the people who are looking at you, not just what’s on your resume or or what’s after your name. A lot of these programs are really just moneymakers university education is about making money. There are a few universities that are truly about education. That is where I would put my effort in terms of my educational pursuits when it comes to a job in HR. I would say get into an HR department at a lower level as soon as you can leave the customer service job, and I’ve worked customer service. So if you’re really good at that that can actually help you get into an HR job as soon as you can. And then work your way up while you’re getting your degree. They’re really going to tie into that. Or she’s really asking. I assume it’s a she misses AB f I think she’s really asking, you know, can I really do this. And so she’s questioning her maybe her confidence in her ability to do that kind of work.

00:15:03 – 00:20:03

And so as a mindset, she really needs to decide. Side or ask yourself a better question. And that is why are why do you wanna be in HR, that’s our growth as it about that that you like what are you doing now on your customer service role that would translate to HR? How can there are many things that would totally because all each are really is is internal customer service. Let’s hope so. Yeah. Well, they should be servicing the employees. Right. Isn’t always the case. But there are people who look at HR that it’s a process it’s not about people that I find that attitude unfortunate. But I understand how they get there. Because there are a lot of processes involved, especially when we’re talking about legal issues and the like and preventing the bad things. I understand that. There’s a lot of process involved in that. But if HR really is your goal, then I would say don’t hesitate to get into it. Because there’s a lot to like about an HR career. Yes. Don’t worry about your tenure. But be prepared for the fact that somebody might ask you that question because they have that mindset. Right. So. Even though you know, that it isn’t applicable to you it could be that somebody’s gonna ask that question. Anyway. So you need to back up your answer with confidence and described how the six to nine months engagements or tenure actually served to their benefit. Exactly. So really it’s about you being able to pitch that in a different way positioning it as a strength versus of owner ability. Right. And the idea if they’re coming out this that your past as a predictor of your future, even impart than here’s where you really work on painting the picture about the way you advance and you advanced quickly, but there’s also your values that you can speak to when you’re talking about the improved morale. There’s a whole lot that you can actually apply that jumping from job to job to show that this is going to be a benefit to them. But enter your you hit the nail on the head your confidence is what’s going to convince them. Not your resume. So don’t lean on your resume lean on your confident. Yeah. All right. So numerous improvements asked the question, can I leave some jobs off my resume, and the back story is I’m applying for roles this coming week and fine tuning my resume. I’ve job hopped a little bit in the last five years and some roles I’ve done have very little relevance. If any to the role some applying for I also don’t want to give my resume walls of tax in the form of different jobs in companies, and the tasks I completed when they won’t help my chances at all they’re likely just make my interview or skim over it all the more. Can I leave out some rolls? It will look like there are some gaps in my working career though. Could I also leave a note to to say that for brevity I’ve left out certain relevant roles. I mean, this is a great question. However, you know, if you really early in your career, you’re not gonna have a lot of established experience. Right. If you’re early in your career, I would say leave all that stuff in. I haven’t seen a role yet. Get that can be repositioned and molded to what I’m seeking numerous improvements. It’s really important focus on a future. That’s inspiring to you. This idea of having noble ambition for a purpose is really important, then you can align. Everything you’ve ever done. Right. You’re with your purpose. Exactly. Now went if there is something that truly is out of of left field. It doesn’t apply to anything personally. Just as I said with the last question, the resume is not the application, if you’re going to leave things out, then leave him out because if the gap is going to be important, they’re going to ask you about it. And you can say I spent a couple years doing something completely different wasn’t my bag decided to come back to the line that I was going for it. Again, speaking with confidence they’re going to accept that on face value. I think you’re right. You don’t want to give a wall of text in the form of different jobs. If you do have dissimilar jobs one after the other. Certainly there are transferable skills in every one of them that probably apply to what you are applying for now. So that’s what you want to list. So that even though the job title may change, the company may change, the idea of the work that you do isn’t changing it’s showing specific trajectory that leads you right to their doorstep. If you need help on this side, we have done I think several different podcasts on finding your why? Or what have you Simon cynic the golden circle or finding your y or it starts with why? Anyway, we’ll leave that in the show notes because I think it’s critically important recognized that resume. Yes, it’s part of the process, but you’re gonna find more traction if you get into the networking site at things, right? And once you start with networking, people are gonna know you before they know your resume, and in your at a distinct advantage that all that stuff that’s on paper that two dimensional past of yours is less relevant.

00:20:03 – 00:25:03

And they may not even read it at that point. They may like you so much. Much that they hire you based on the way you present yourself in person. And by speaking to your fly that the reason why you get up in the morning and do the work that you do this is going to be far more compelling to a potential employer. Anyway, if you think about your personal branding, which we’ve talked about another podcast, if you think about creating your own brand and everything you talk about is in alignment with that your resume will fall under that line as well. So everything sounds and looks consistent. This is going to serve you a lot better than worrying about whether or not you have a really easy to see job gesturing on a resume. The resume is not as important as you think. Yes. It’s the thing that they expect to see if the application process is all done online, which so many of them are make sure that your cover letter is expressing what that trajectory really means. So that then they can look at the resume in its context now with that sad. A lot of companies aren’t really going that deep. They don’t read the cover letter until after the resume. Anyway, if that’s the case, I would say just keep trying keep getting out there. Don’t worry about the ones that don’t call. You think only about the ones that will and be prepared for those calls take a both and strategy. That means hey, yes, I should apply. Yes. I should have a cover letter. But I wouldn’t leave it there. Right. Who do I know in the company who can have a conversation with if this role really fits me? Well, I wanna be in a position to influence that process, and you don’t do that over the internet. Yeah, it’s impossible to do that. And don’t think that it’s your resume that socks when you don’t get a response from it where I it could be that company. Never even looked at your resume because they’re they’re automated system didn’t pull it up. It’s unfortunate. But it’s the reality of the world we live in. So never take that personally. Always look for a person that you can send that document to and how conversation with about how you’re the perfect fit that brings us. The next question from the poem made prints poem aid, pod pa- mod looks French eighteen and ready to graduate high school. Congratulations curious, if what I want to do is a viable option. I love this. I mean, even that question makes me wanna say, yes, this is the backstory like the title implies, I am eighteen and soon to be graduating from high school I have decided not to go to a traditional university. But rather to pursue a trade? I’ve been interested in autumn Canucks for quite a while. Now and have given it thorough thought that this is something I want to do. However, I have been told that oughta Canucks don’t get compensated. Well in my state, I wonder who’s telling him that. I am still keeping auto mechanics in my head because I really want to learn the ins announce, but what are some of the other traits that pay well bonus points for demand in Florida. Thanks. Well, it’s been awhile since I lived in Florida. I can’t answer the question. What trades would be good? I other. Than electrons and plumbers always get paid. Well, I’m not sure I want to do that kind of work myself. I mean, I do home electrical work, but I don’t touch the plumbing. I I love where this starts, and I’m going to current you to do what interests you, I know someone who started college. This was a few years back. He started college and his real love was autumn Canucks, and he had been rebuilding a an Oldsmobile four forty two in his garage. He was really interested in doing that. So finally, he dropped out of college. He started working in his parents garage fixing cars he had and they lived in a nicer community. So he couldn’t do it in the driveway. It was difficult to do. But he did it and eventually he opened up his first shop was he paid extraordinarily. Well, maybe not. But the autumn Canucks that I’ve taken my cars to make a decent amount. And they have significant overhead the these guys. Aren’t going hungry? But this this guy that I knew years ago, he persevered he now owns three mechanic shops. He’s doing quite well, he has a number of kids his his wife as a stay at home mom, and they live in northern California. And which is not talking you’ll Inca or one of the rural areas, we’re talking San Jose. He can make money there. Now, it’s not Florida. But I believe they drive the same cars in Florida that they do in California. So if that’s your passion Icee, go for it. I would look maybe at a different route for you. And that is validate all of your assumptions, you’re zooming that auto mechanics is the way you wanna go you have interest in that great go talk to his many people as you can that do that kind of work for a living. And you don’t wanna look for the rule. You wanna look for the exception to the rule. Meaning if eighty of them told you that the nobody can make money in Florida doing this.

00:25:03 – 00:30:09

But there’s twenty that say yes, and they are. Glad to the twin. Actually are doing it. And then ask them how they did it. Right. What are they doing differently than the eighty that you talked to that aren’t making and take lots of notes this is where networking is going to support your success. Well, not only that. But let’s say you’re talking to one of those twenty and they’re giving the advice. Ask him could I come for one day and work with you to see what it’s like to work in your shot. And not that. I I want to. I’m not asking for a job. I’m asking you to let me come in. And learn from you that is completely different ask I don’t know a lot of people who say, no, I’m not going to have you come if you’re truly interested. They’ll know and the likelihood that they could mentor you people like to help other people success succeed. Wow. So much for that grammar people like helping other succeed. And so when you give them that opportunity to help you the chances are pretty good. They’re going to pick up on it. If it’s coming from your heart, and you talking to people about it. They’re going to get excited you because you’re. Cited for yourself. So here’s so just a couple of things at eighteen. I would highly recommend one do something that’s in mechanics. Even though you’re not a mechanic. So you could be a tow truck driver. You could be a shop guy who cleans the cars registered in the front, whatever it takes just get something one step closer to that. Great. The second thing I would consider in this isn’t for everybody. But I guarantee you that there is a military program that you could take advantage of that’s going to help you get those mechanical skills, and they’ll pay you to do it. Now. That’s if you’re interested in getting into the military that I will say that’s not for everybody. But I know a lot of people that have found that to be a really good way to get in. It was actually when I enlisted back in eighty seven the two professions that they needed the most was Cormon, which is a nurse, which makes sense. You’re in the military people are gonna get hurt or they’re gonna get shot. And you know, he needs somebody there to patch them up and the second one was diesel mechanic, and they were offering va. Very large bonuses right to people who actually signed up for that. In a broader sense for those who are listening who are have a similar question. What do I do? I’m I don’t wanna go to the university. I wanna go into the traits. I would say do it because there is a lack of people going into the traits right now. So the chances of making money are much higher now than they were fifty seventy five years ago when a lot of people were going into the traits because university was not an option for them. What’s interesting is to think that that’s happening again now where university education has become so expensive that fewer and fewer people are actually choosing that go into the trades. If there’s something that really interests you, and I’m thinking it, stirs your passions rent gopher doing it. Yeah. And then I don’t know if you follow like micro on dirty opposite. He does scholarships for people who. Wanna go into the trade? So you might and we’ll put this in the show notes. You might go to a micro works, and they he has a whole bunch of different scholarship programs there. He has lists. I think of different companies that offer internships or some kind of educational program where hey, they put you through this long program eighteen to twenty four months, and you come out, and they guarantee you a job at the end fantastic. I’m telling you if I had had that kind of talent I see the benefit if I had gone that way rather than university as it is. I got a good degree from a good university. And actually used my degree for number of years. Now, I’m doing what I’m really passionate about which probably ties more to my first career of acting than it did to the degree. I got all of this life. Experience has put me in the position where I am today that I have so much more to offer because of my experience you are going to be an exactly the same situation. If you’re following what truly interests you whether people say, you’re gonna make money or. Not you will find that the worst road blocks that you’ll ever face are the internal ones. What happens inside your own head? Not what other people say to you. And listen to what they say. But don’t take it in as gospel. Right, right. So it’s good to get the advice as your and take that in. But don’t take personally or or don’t assume that it’s the true, right? If the truth that person may not be the truth for you. Right. Exactly. Great advice. So this is the last question. It’s from meet sheriff mitt met sheriff and sheriff. Yes. So here’s the question. I’m twenty four and was just passed up for a significant promotion, I don’t feel like there’s much left for me at this company. What do I do? Here’s the backstory, he asked should I bring this up with the president along with all the things I’ve accomplished that? I believe make me leagues ahead of the other person who received the promotion, I was recently passed up for that for mechanical engineer to engineering manager for context, I’m twenty four Kashi so much.

00:30:09 – 00:35:04

And have been working in this place for eleven months the person who instead received the promotion is a year or two Hetemi and has been working for six to eight months longer. Yeah. I think that you’re probably passed up for promotion based on seniority rather than skills. And honestly, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that on its face. If the president of the company feels that your skills were about even then I’m going to guess that the criteria for the promotion was the the tenure and there’s nothing inherently wrong with that. If you feel that your work has been superior to those of your colleagues, I would find very gentle way of presenting that because you’re going to be going to be a fine line between cockiness and confidence in this case. I would say first of all if you’re going to bring it up with the president you should start out by being great. For the job that you have. And that you look forward to a long career with this. This is having the opportunity to interview for this position. And even being considered in the company of people that have more grow tenure more experience. And who knows what else? Yes. But I’m assuming here that you’re early in your career you’ve been in this company for a short time. You maybe haven’t built trust with anybody. Yes. You may have done. Good work. Yes. You may be highly qualified, and yes, you may be should’ve gotten that position. But somebody else had trust and that takes time. And that means getting your hands dirty building relationships with people. Right. So we’ve been talking so many times about networking. It sounds to me like perhaps some internal networking as in order here. Not just with the president because that might give a different impression. Instead, how can you collaborate with your peers? So that you become a leader without the authority influence is a funny thing it can help you help other people, but it can also. Help yourself. So you don’t wanna be two faced about it. You don’t wanna go in with an ulterior motive, I’m gonna help you and in the back of your head you thinking, so I can look good just help the more. You are helping other people succeed the better that makes you look and that does get noticed overtime. Don’t forget that this might be fresh for you and responding overreacting is really important to recognize. I found I was in that exact same situation when I came out of college I was passed over for a management role in our department after the manager left for a different role in the company, and I wasn’t even considered. And I thought man what’s there must be something wrong with me, or these people are out to get me just recognize that there could be other things going on in your head that you don’t wanna be out networking right away and building relationships with these people if you’re like will why did you get it? And I did right. Just check your attitude and maybe find out why without asking why? And having a little patience can help to. Okay. So I’m disappointed. There’s nothing. Wrong with my feeling disappointed for being passed over. But at the same time. How can I do the work that I’m doing right now better? How can I shine more? How can I make sure that the impact I’m having on the company, and my co workers is positive and helping everyone succeed I’m here to tell you that kind of behavior does get noticed. It may not be the, you know, the top sales persons bonus type of behavior may not get that same kind of notice. But it does hell and when people start to recognize that the success has a common thread of this individual now, this individual is being noticed in a different different different people observing that be patient. Well, that’s easy to say hard to do when you’re young right? So have patience means suffering. So be careful what what you thinking about. When you think patients the other thing, I recommend is. Hey, if you wanna stay in this organization, you probably need. To start having strategic conversations on a regular basis with specific stakeholders in the company that you think have the juice to influence your career in the future. And that’s something I overlooked in your early on in my career is more interested in kasha. I got to do the best job enough that that isn’t important, but I’m so focused on doing a good job that I never looked up long enough to say, hey, you know, so and so there’s doing good work, and they seem to have their head on straight, and they seem to have influence with leadership, I should build a relationship with that. So that I can ride their coattails up that up the organization and once again we’re talking about networking. Don’t underestimate the value of building relationships within your organization outside of your own division or department. If you’re becoming friends with people on other teams, you’re going to be seen by other teams there so much that you can do. And this takes time try not to get everything right away.

00:35:04 – 00:36:55

Try to build up to that build that sense of trust. You’ll find that. It’s definitely worth the. Effort, and if you take it from a position of a zero self interest, and which is super hard to do. Right. ’cause you know, you want to get promoted. You know, you wanna move up in the organization, but people who are self interested never make it quite the same the same way. And they end up having to step on people to get where they’re going. So you really have to understand what reputation. Do I wanna have in my career in this organization, and you know, meet share if you want to manage your reputation before any promotion that you would wanna have. Well, that’s it for today. We hope that this has been a lightning for some of you. We will have show notes and resources available at job seekers radio dot com forward slash zero three eight we have a free resource for you. There is called the anatomy of networking conversation. It’s an e book that Scott, I have put together to help you understand the steps required to be successful at networking. Thank you for joining us for this episode. Jobseeker’s radio your investment of time and attention are truly appreciated head on over to itunes. If you haven’t chance there’s actually a Lincoln the show notes at the top to head over to items and actually leave us a rate in review, you can subscribe through that as well. The nice thing about the rate and review is it actually helps us spread this message and bring more people into give them value. Right. That’s really the whole point behind. It is to get more exposure for this message to other people. So please share this with somebody that you know, or that you think might benefit from the content. And if there’s something that you want us to talk about please leave those comments in there too. So we can get back to you. Because there’s no stupid questions. There aren’t so ask away. Well, I’m Andrew, and I’m Scott until next time. Thanks, everybody.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Being in a position of desperation can be difficult. Having ways to cope with and manage it effectively is the topic of this episode.

Join Scott and Andrew as they discuss real world tactics to deal with desperation.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Where desperation comes from
• Benefits of a Gap Job
• Taking Stock of Your Fears
• Where are you really and how bad is it?
• Ideas around making progress when there might be little hope
• Positioning your skills and strengths enthusiastically

Resources (including affiliate links)

4-Part Series on the Anatomy of a Networking ConversationJSR 015: The Set-Up
JSR 016: The Icebreaker JSR 017: The Question and AnswerJSR 018: The Ask 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:00 – 00:05:01

Welcome to job seekers radio. I’m Andrew, and I’m Scott this production is meant to provide you meaningful support to find great careers faster. Whether you’re working or not today on job seekers radio were talking about how to network when you’re desperate. I have quite a bit of experience this having been laid off. We’ve oh six times. Yeah. You got five or six I got four. Yeah. It’s been interesting. How that comes up and admittedly some periods of unemployment have been quite short. But others have lasted a lot longer than I was comfortable doing and desperation the time that I was unemployed for a period of years. Yeah. I was desperate that the topic is important to me because I know others go through this. It is a tough time being unemployed is probably one of the hardest things, especially if you’re employed. For a long period. It’s going to be one of the hardest things you will ever encounter. I would put it up there with divorce because I can talk about that too about bankruptcy. There are a whole bunch of life experiences that are really really negative and being unemployed for a long period of time is going to rank pretty high on the list. I can tell you. I hate it. I absolutely all do hated it. And I think the emotions that go through and the the pariah and the the Monica of unemployed, and oh, you’re out of work. You know, all those conversations are still fresh in my mind. Yes, there’s a lot of judgment vault and most of the time and something will touch on by the end of this conversation is that most of that judgment is internal. It’s how we feel about ourselves. Whether it’s at this age, I should be unemployed. I should be preparing for retirement, whatever that is the. The that judgment is often worst internally, and it’s not actually coming from other people. If you’re in a position where you really really I mean really need a job we suggest go get a job it jump. And and that sounds rather flippant. But the idea is there are people out there hiring right now, I have driven by a number of places the metropolitan transit authority here in Portland called Tri met. They most of their buses have tremendous hiring. I’ve seen a postings out front of Home Depot recently that they are hiring. There are jobs out there, and it’s not necessarily going to be a career. It’s not necessarily going to be something you’re going to be passionate about and loving it, and they treat you exactly the way you’ve always wanted to be it may not be like that. But there are advantages. I’d say steppingstone. Yes, it really is just a stepping stone to something better. And they know that this is going to be stepping stone. That’s why they pay what they pay. And that’s why they’re jobs are open is because their high turnover all those things are true. Right. But for you the benefit is that my mind now is released from that fear that anxiety that worry how going to earn a living where my mom, where’s my next paycheck gonna come from? And it may be a situation where the job you have to take doesn’t pay enough. And we understand that too. And you may need to take a second job, and none of that necessarily feels good. But I’m going to suggest that unemployment takes a bigger head on your self esteem than taking that that gap job that gap job may not be able to provide everything that you’re real job, whatever that might be would would provide for. But but it is your not going to take. The same kind of hit on your self esteem, and that will have much longer effects than taking that temporary position. Yes. We mean any job that means the first one that comes along should probably just take it. And it’s an income source. Whatever it takes to get that job. We suggest you go take. Now, you can certainly use a lot of the techniques we’ve talked about to find these kind of jobs and appearing in an employer’s place of business ready to work is probably the most direct way to get there. Right. And and the research on these gap jobs is pretty easy to do you want to walk into any of these organizations knowing who they are what they do why they do it. And what makes a good fit within their organization because you’re far more likely to land a gap job with some knowledge of the organization. So it at least appears if not being reality that you’re busy ask about it on.

00:05:01 – 00:10:08

Some level. It’s okay to be desperate. It is. I think you need to really say. Yes, I’m desperate. I wouldn’t shout it to the world. And, but it’s something you should mitt at least to yourself, and there’s nothing wrong with that people have been there you’ve been there, Scott. I know I’ve been there. I added period of time where I was like, oh my gosh. I was unemployed and I had a family. I just bought a house and the company has working for laid me off. And so I was unemployed and I was staring at Christmas literally. Because this was in November. So imagine it’s November. I just bought a house. Ready to get married have kids and all that. And I didn’t have job. Yeah. That’s tough. But before we started recording you made a point to to really take stock in really how bad is it? Because often, it’s our fear. That’s telling us that. It’s as Baz as it might be. When in fact, the the reality may not be quite as dire. It may be important, but take stock of where you are. And I I like that from a sense of being mindful mindfulness is really a state of being as opposed to just getting your information together. So if you’re taking that approach to this moment of desperation, you can also start to think about how do I sound how desperate do I sound when I’m talking to other people, and as we start to get into the networking aspect of this how we sound does play part. So there are things that we want to sort of help. Plant some seeds on to to see if we can’t get a different sound while we’re feeling desperate. So think about this for a second. What Scott really, and I are really saying is yes, you can be desperate, and yes, you can admit that to yourself, but you don’t have to sound desperate. Right. And so this is something that you can actually practice that you can rehearse that you can build confidence. Again in presenting yourself as a solution to somebody’s problem. And I think networking is better. When number one if you’re desperate in really desperate that you take job. Then you relieve some of that desperation. Right. You build a little bit of confidence you demonstrate to people that you’re actually working if choose to share that with somebody you don’t have to well. But again, I think being able to tell somebody, hey, I’m working, but I’m looking for something else that also is something they can relate to but the advantage of admitting. Yes, I work at you know, the gross. Restore and it’s a gap job. But that’s where I’m working right now. And I I’m doing well there, and I’m looking for information or advice about this other idea that I’ve got whether it’s to get back into my real career or maybe something new and you’ve taken the pressure off the other person. So it it is an advantage to you. Either way the first step in talking to people about your desperation is to find those individuals where whether it’s somebody in your family, spouse, sibling, whatever when your parents, you need an outlet you may be the type where you processed by talking things through. So you definitely need someone that you can confide in who is not going to sugarcoat anything. They’ll be able to help you to accept what the situation is to hold up the mirror to say. Well, this is how your coming across all that stuff. If you’re the type to keep it in you still. Need an outlet? It’s just that conversation is going to look different. But the idea that of keeping it all inside and putting out a show it’s gonna wear you out. It takes Dodd of energy to do that. So find an outlet some place or person or way to release the frustrations the exciting and everything that comes with that disparition. You gotta have an outlet. You may be fooling others. But you really only fooling yourself. If you do that. Now, if you keep it all bottled in and you don’t let it out, and so having trusted advisors or people that, you know, our job seekers groups, we run one and believe me everything there is an open book. There’s nothing that none of us. Haven’t also been through that other people haven’t experienced too. So you’re not alone. First of all, right, right. There’s plenty of people out there that you can confide in. Yeah. They were gonna know where you’re coming from. Right. And when somebody says, you can’t be desperate. Guess what? I am right. That’s not really the advice that’s going to help you. But I love what you’re saying. Get to those groups where people share your sense of Nana -sarily desperation, but of the importance of of making progress the chances of finding finding the nuggets that are going to help you get to your next step are greater when you have that that support group behind you.

00:10:08 – 00:15:11

And in this process what you’re going to identify. I think is your identity in the challenge we have when we’re desperate is. We think that’s our identity. It might be what we’re feeling, but it isn’t truly our identity. Our density lies in our skills, our strengths, and yes, we may be unemployed. But that doesn’t mean somebody didn’t pay us our skills and strengths before. Which means if they did they’ll pay us for it again. And if you are the type where you are driven by your passions of for a specific kind of work, whatever that might look like your your dream. Job that also just because you’re not getting paid to do that. If you have the ability to do volunteer work, even if it’s not every day or every week, but it’s regular. So that people see you involved in the community that also is going to play a very important part in how you talk about your job. Search it’s going to make a difference in how you sound know that you can identify yourself with other people in your network and situations as a solution to a problem rather than the internal feelings that you have right, and so focused more on the communication and the asking of questions and will actually give you a free resource to help you with this. It’s called the anatomy of networking conversation. That hopes keep you focused on the framework rather than the feelings that you’re you’re having of we’ve set up before you’ll you’ll see it in the notes the discussion on having something some project to work on. So that as you especi-. Actually in this moment, if you’re feeling desperate and savvy says, so what do you do? It’s a question. Not only do we usually here, but often we ask right? So what do you do because it gives us a context of that person’s world at least some insight into it? When you don’t do something. You don’t have that job that you can talk about it whenever you’re project is or whatever you’re passionate about if that’s what you can talk about. And you’re asking them for information on it. You’re keeping yourself out of that sense of desperation it may be running in the background. But that’s where it needs to be in the background talk about the things that get you charged up. Well, and people are likely more understanding than you think. And what I mean by that is there’s a lot of people out there that have been through the same process you’ve been through the average tenure today in its decreasing on the job market with the company is forty six months. So the odds that somebody run into a networking situation has been in your situation. Is actually fairly high. So don’t think that you’re the only one here not alone going into these networking situations. You may run into people. Yes. That don’t have time. But that’s not because you’re unemployed. Okay. Is because they’re busy, and they don’t see the value in what you’re asking for. So if we change those two things the value, and what we’re asking for they might be open to a converse. Something else. You just brought to my mind is the idea that those who have been through these moments of desperation are usually quick to share that. So that they’re making that connection with you pretty much out of the gates. The chances are much better that those who do that are the ones that you can open the door a little more to talk about that sense of desperation because they may have some ideas that actually help you get out of it, but tread carefully there at I don’t assume that just because somebody says that they’ve been through something similar that. Now, you can unload on them because over sharing his still. Issue. The main reason that we’re sharing this with you is to overcome your disbelief and your resistance to networking because you’re unemployed, and so were giving you all these reasons all of this positive affirmation. Right. So that you can get out there and actually meet with people. So before you go to these in into a meeting where you’re going to be talking to somebody. There are some things that are out there, and I don’t have references off the top of my head. But I a simple Google search would probably bring up quite a bit. But the idea of different things that you can do to seem more confident or to feel better before you go into this one of them that I remember was you take two minutes to take very strong physical stance. Your feet or apart? You’re standing up tall. Your hands are on your your hips. And you’re you’re looking very strong, and you hold that position preferably in front of a mayor for two minutes. I’ve actually had people tell me I can think of to off the top of my head. That they did it and it works. So there are different things that we can do to prepare selves for these these conversations. Another one is talking about spin how we spin our experience. So that it sounds Luzia static rather than desperate. We’re not talking about manipulation here. But there’s always something that you can talk about enthusiastically, and if you can tie that to the position, you’re you’re in where you know, you’re interviewing for that gap job.

00:15:12 – 00:20:04

These are the kinds of things that I really get passionate about. So for me if I were to take a stock position where I’m interacting with customers at home improvement. One of the things that I can talk about is that I really enjoy connecting with people and helping them find solutions to their issues in the moment. I can totally do that at the home improvement center. Is that really the job? I want to do for the rest of my life. Maybe not. But it might be something. I do in my retirement I ever get there. There. The guy who sold me at my new front door is exactly that he retired from an engineering position. Now, he’s working in that department at the the home store and bully for him. Is you can find those EM in spite of it being starting in in desperation. That’s right in. So think about all the things that you’re feeling put those out on paper and just let them be. I think sometimes we try to bodily sings in. But getting them outside of yourself and onto paper or into some other container allows you then to open up yourself to do some of the things got nice talking about. In fact, I’ve seen that along the lines of what you said about standing up. You know, kinda like the superman, bows, right? Some of the treatments there now experimenting with for depression is having people stand in front of a mirror just physically smiling. Yeah. Forcing smile fry shoe minutes actually, improved their outlook. I remember hearing somebody talking about this where I felt this is just so lame, and it’s how can this possibly work? And then when they stuck with. It. They started making fun of the process, and this is just so stupid here. And what they found in retrospect was they were laughing they were able to find humor in the moment that skill in. And of itself is going to help you deal with desperation. Yeah. It can’t get any worse. Yeah. But we won’t go there. That’s something. You can reflect on FM, and I can laugh at it now. But at the time, I know when I’m taking two and three jobs trying to make ends meet and small babies at home, and we’re doing daycare in the house. I mean, all these things we did. Yes. To get through that period. But I can look back now say it couldn’t get any worse than that. Yeah. Then. Yeah. But it could well our laugh about exactly, and that’s the point we everything in life has temporary the good things don’t last. But neither do the bad. Try to keep yourself moving emotionally in that direction. It is tough. We get it we’ve been there. But remember, you are not alone. We can commiserate when that’s important, and we can help push when that’s imortant. There are people in your lives that can serve both of those functions. Take advice. Integer of their presence. Get them involved have them be the listening ear and have them push you when you need it. And if they missed the timing just let them know, they’ll be okay. But they are not judging you as hard as your judging you here’s what we’d like you to do. Now is that if you go to job seekers radio dot com forward slash zero three seven that’s where you’ll find the show notes on that Pacers actually spot to leave a comment, and we would just like to hear from you. If you’re going through something, and you need support, and you just need an outlet to share go ahead and share it on that site. I would be perfectly happy just to have that as a place that safe for you to go and share what your going? That’s great. Yeah. And if you have ideas on things that you have done when you’ve been in that situation, or if you’re in there now, and you’re finding things that are working right that too because that way we can pass that along to others with some new ideas on how to how to beat. This this sense of desperation because we’re a community. Yeah. We’re a community. We’re here to support you. But we’re also here to support each other. Right. And as we see people downloading these podcasts and and getting involved in this community. We were seeing the numbers grow. You are not the only ones dealing with this. So avail yourselves of that support group we want to participate with you and as promised on that same page, you will find a free resource, it’s called the anatomy of networking conversation. The I think it’s four episodes that we put together. So that’s it’s a four chapter e book that walks through all of the components the framework. So that you can make sure that when you are desperate that you have a framework to rely on that this going to bring you positive results.

00:20:04 – 00:20:31

Right. Feel free to reach out to us. There’s also I tunes we’d love for you to go to items give a rate and review of this podcast. And you’ll find the ability. To download others as well. So help us get involved in helping you and you can help others by providing your feedback as well. This is Andrew, and I’m Scott until next time it may be bad now, but it will get better take care, buddy.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Advanced planning after College requires a proactive approach. Thinking about your future is not wasted time for anyone.

Scott and Andrew discuss some ideas and techniques you can utilize now to make a difference in your career future.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Whenever your education ends, prepare for it now.
• Employment Types during and after college to consider.
• Building an online presence.
• Activities that will lead in your desired career path
• Ways to identify target companies and industries 
• What should I do with LinkedIn?
• How should I approach the people I want to network with? 

Resources (including affiliate links)

4-Part Series on the Anatomy of a Networking ConversationJSR 015: The Set-Up
JSR 016: The IcebreakerJSR 017: The Question and Answer
JSR 018: The Ask 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:00 – 00:05:04

Welcome to job seekers radio. I’m Andrew, and I’m Scott this production is meant to provide you meaningful support to find great careers faster. Whether you’re working or not today seekers radio were talking about how to prepare for college graduation after college that is or any graduation experience, I suppose, and what do I do? Now, we are prior episode. We talked about the choices that we might make and this sort of relates to that were sort of addressing those who think they have a career path. They know basically what they want to do. But they don’t know how to take the first steps or maybe there’s just too many steps to choose from. But how do I make these kinds of decisions? And there are probably as many different ideas on how to address this. As there are people. You can talk to which is kind of the point. Well, we recognize that the people listening to this may be in school. They have obligations to fulfil their they have term papers and final prepare for and all those things the responsibilities. Of school having time or margin to actually participate in these activists is really important. So that you’re not doing it last minute, right? Really? I think this process is to be a little more proactive. Hopefully, you’re not waiting until you know, spring semester of your senior term right before graduation and crossing your fingers because that’s really not a strategy. No, it isn’t. It’s not even a plan. But it’s what a lot of do. We think we know what we’re going to do. And we just wait till the moment to strike, and we jump and we realize we’re not landing where we thought we would. So there are a whole lot of things that we can do to prepare for that graduation. Whether that graduation is finishing a training program and jumping into a career, it could be an that could be within a company, it could be the actual university degree, whatever that looks like the idea is getting out into the world before you graduate and finding out the the. Specifics about this one of the first things that people talk about his internships. There are a number of internships out there. Some are paid many are not. And that’s something you’re going to want to consider if you’re in a situation where you need an income and unpaid internship may be an option if you plan it, well, it’s going to a little pressure. It’s all good just be prepared for that, many states actually have written laws that may prevent or preclude people from hiring, unpaid interns. So in in a lot of states. It’s going to vary on where you’re at. But you may be able to get a paid internship, most of the time it didn’t used to be that way. That’s great. But the other thing they consider as full-time employment is that you may be in school now, and you may be able to get full-time employment at your intended target company. There’s also ideas that you may be able to get on campus employment. If you haven’t explored that already the idea that you get to work in your industry, at least on the academic side of your industry before you get. Out into the real world. These are all good opportunities to to be employed. You know, having most if not all of the same responsibilities and deliverables that you’re going to need in the outside world. I would recommend doing as much as your time and ability allows some people can really drive themselves have known people who had a fulltime job a part time job and went to school fulltime and thrive because that’s just where they get their energy. There are others that tried that and failed at everything. So they brought themselves back to just their academic career. And they started thriving, again, whatever your style is whatever works for you. That’s what you should be doing. But you’ve got to start doing things that are going to lead you in the direction of a career, and that starts a lot of times with this kind of networking for internships or other kinds of extracurricular work. You also may identify a handful of temporary agencies that interact with the companies you’re interested in. Looking for where even in the industry that you’re interested in there, maybe agencies that that actually specialize in those kind of industries? So that’s something to think about or consider when you’re going through this process. Also, if you know people who do contract work in the industry that that you would be interested in you may be able to help them in such a way that you start getting experience you want, and there’s very little investment that you need to make and your often don’t have to commit to long term deliverables while it may not be that you’re actually doing the work you’d be interested in doing. But you’re in the company you’re interacting with people. You get to see from the inside -ly. How does this really work what sort of conversations or having? What problems do I typically see in the marketplace that I might be able to solve? So that I know. Okay. I see where I fit because I think for people coming out of college. They don’t always see where do I fit? I just don’t know. And so by getting in there and actually doing an internship part time job or even volunteering.

00:05:04 – 00:10:02

I’ve seen people volunteer to do work for free. Pro Bono may depending on how much margin you have in your schedule. Of course. And that has led to something you bring that point up. And I think about somebody that I spoke with fairly recently. He’s very interested in social activism, but social activists don’t get paid for their work. In most cases, it’s usually something that there is some kind of grassroots effort that is starting and people get involved because they’re passionate about it. But he wants to do more of that. But he needs to make money doing it. So this is one of those things where the networking is really going to pay off in the long term. But he admits he may need to take a job to at least pay the bills while he pursued that it’s kind of a balancing act for him. What I think is his talent is being mindful of the opportunities as they arise. So he’s been able to tap into things that help him. He knows his passion is still there. So how does he keep doing that? Will that’s probably eighty. Percent of the solution is knowing what you’re passionate about and going out and doing the hard work of networking and identifying people and taking time out of your school, schedule, your work schedule and all these different things to actually do the hand to hand combat that is job. Search is a lot easier. When you’re chasing, something that matters to you. If you’re the type to read the news, for example, or certain publications where they’re talking about the things that you do get passionate about your considering for a career. They are usually in these stories going to mention organizations that are active in it. That’s a good starting point to do research on the companies that are doing what you want to do and company I use that in a very general sense. It doesn’t have to be a capitalist organization. It could be a social organization, but whatever that company is they’re doing what you wanna do do some research on them. Find out who it is. That’s making decisions who’s getting out into the community. How do you get involved? They will probably pick you up fair. Quickly. This is an opportunity for you to start making a list, right? Make a list of companies make a list of job titles. Keep track of postings that you’re seeing in the marketplace. And people you admire right? And so whatever those sources are compile them somewhere. So that you can actually address it look at it makes them decisions kind of map out what the post graduation experience like for you. So that you hit the ground running when you’re done this great idea because now you’re going to be able to see where a lot of these dots connect anyway. And you wouldn’t know that just by getting involved in a single of volunteer activity by doing that kind of research and Saint who’s connected to whom and how these interrelate your going to walk in now with more knowledge than you had. If all you’re relying on was the class that you took in whatever it is that you’re passionate about. So I would encourage you if you’re in college now, get yourself linked in profile start cataloging, the experiences, you’re. You’re undergoing in some your college projects some of the volunteering stuff you’re doing on campus. If you’re doing work study talk about the work study programs, you’re in start documenting some of this stuff. So that when you get to the point that you want to share that with other people, then you have it you have it somewhere Lincoln is also a good resources a search engine. So if you’re trying to add to your list of companies or people or to do research as we talked about Lincoln exceptional database of information that you can take advantage of even while you’re in school, right? And especially while you’re in school, the topic of connecting with people in Lincoln, something we’ve we’ve discussed in other podcasts. But it is very useful. In this context. The idea is you don’t just send a request to connect. If you don’t have a message on that a lot of people simply won’t spend the time to look if they don’t already know you, or at least they remember having met, you some fashion. They. They may not respond at all. It’s usually a good idea a best practice when sending a link request to explain why you’re asking them make sure that it’s obvious. You’ve put some thought into this and ask them for information or advice. This is something that whatever reason you’re looking for work as you’re working your network. If you ask somebody if they have a job, they generally won’t. But if you ask them for information or advice about your area of interest, many people will give you at least the advice if they don’t have specific information. So here’s your opportunity as you’ve done this research, you’ve find people whether it’s in the news or somewhere else that they seem to be dialed into what you want to do ask them to connect. But tell them why tell them what you’ve already been working on. And then ask them for information and advice and the chances are pretty good.

00:10:02 – 00:15:01

You’ll get a response -absolutely willingly leave link. In the show notes that go over all those topics including a series that we’ve done on the anatomy of networking conversation. We’ve also converted that into an e book for you to download on the website. Just go to job seekers radio dot com. You’ll see plenty of links there to access that information. I think that the moral of that story is there’s always somebody to talk. Some Luke n we can either stay in our little bubble of school and party and learn and do whatever, but we can also take a chance and reach out to people. We don’t know even though it may be uncomfortable to have a conversation to learn something as clan. So eloquently tells us, right? I’m just looking to learn something and have fun. There is a lot to be said about leaving your comfort zone. And there are whole bunch of quotes out there that that I’m not gonna try to to reiterate. But if getting out there is not your thing. It’s not your style preference. You would much rather stay reactive. There’s nothing wrong with being. Active. It’s just not going to work as quickly. And if you’re about to graduate, you probably don’t have the time year gonna need to push yourself to reach out and for those for home getting out of the comfort zone comes more easily. Or this is already something you’ve practiced and you get excited about good for you. Don’t beat yourself up over whatever position you’re in. But do get out there be the person who makes the first the first movement on this. There’s al- always someone out there that you can talk to whether that’s in your location, if it somebody say in another country, but who is really well versed on it. They will have something of interest to you. So don’t hesitate to reach out. I would suggest that if you’re young and you’re just coming out of college. You need don’t have a lot of constraints that you should not put constraints on your search and a lot of times unless there’s you know. Of course, there’s things that come up where you have to be close a family. I get all that. So you. May have some undrinkable non-negotiable constraints. I get it. But if you if you don’t don’t constrain anything, okay until you know, exactly what you wanna do keep geography open be willing to relocate anywhere for the right opportunity. And if you think you have some kind of restriction within your realm of responsibilities talk to the people involved because you may not be as restricted as you think it could be in your head when you’re planning this thing out, if I’m looking at the time horizon, and I’ve got, you know, eighteen months till graduation or even six months to graduation. I’m keeping my field of vision open. Right. So that I’m considering jobs anywhere considering most any title, any company until I know exactly what it is. I want you know, this brings up a point to me that what we’re dealing with his change management that the primary concern when facing change is that there’s a process you go through there there several their whole bunch of different. Theories out there, and the different stages, you go through the the one that I’ve been working with most recently is a methodology on how to actually embrace and implement change, but you go through a period of gaining awareness, and then gaining desire to do it. You need to work on your knowledge of whatever it is that you’re going to be changing too. But the idea is focusing on your current state and keeping your eye on your future state, but as your working through this remember that you are constrained most by those internal roadblocks that happened the external roadblocks whether it’s money, whether it’s your current position, whatever that is those you can work with because you know, what they are. It’s the internal roadblocks generally keep us from from taking our next step. So that’s probably what we need to work on. I and I’m sure there’s no lack of Zion. Right. So you mentioned money, I’m thinking also student loan debt. Right. Is that I’ve only got so much runway to find a job before I have to pay that debt. So the sooner you can make that decision without having to make a decision maybe to go back to school. So you can defer your debt that you can add more death. You know? So there’s this kind of vicious cycle that happens if if you’re not proactive in this process now, that’s a really good point. Again action is going to help you even if it’s not where you’re most comfortable, whatever you do do it now. That’s right. But every do so if you’re headed, you know, preparing for graduation, or you know, somebody who’s preparing for graduation. Would you just share this podcast with them? We would like to open up their minds and help support their success. Yeah. You’ll you’ll find the show notes and the resources they’re all job seekers radio dot com forward slash zero three six while. You’re there we have a free gift for you. It’s it’s an electric download of anatomy of networking conversation.

00:15:01 – 00:16:01

It’s an e book that will walk you through the steps required to have a successful networking. Reaction in the marketplace. And we’d love to have you help others with that as well. You got it when you have a chance if you hop on over to tunes, this is where all of the rate in review infrastructure is really important to the success of our podcast. And I think if you’ve gotten value from this, I would hope your rate in review would help someone else see the value as well. And if you have some feedback on what we could do that will help you more give us that information to we love answering questions, we’d like getting this feedback. So please don’t don’t hesitate to tell us how we could help you further you can access that tunes Lincoln seekers radio forward slash items. That’ll take you right to the page where you can leave a review for us. Thanks everybody for joining us. I’m Scott, and I’m Andrew until next time until time start where you are with what you’ve got right now. Go for.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Networking is the #1 way to find great new career opportunities quickly. Success in networking can be traced to your ability to communicate.

Using the Branding Statement to position yourself. Listen now to hear tips and techniques.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Consideration in making career choices to seek something better
• Giving you permission to pursue your passion
• Defining what your passion looks like especially for college graduates
• Strategies to picking your options
• Ideas around getting out in front of your post-graduation plans
• Heightening your awareness of what makes you happy
• Career experimentation and leaning into collecting experiences
• Why making mistakes shouldn’t get you down or stop you
• Move past the opinion of ONE person while looking for exceptions to the rule
• How to relate with or combine hobby, money and work
• Choosing between doing something and doing nothing
• Listening to your gut (in a good way)
• Change perspective change your world

Resources (including affiliate links)

Deepak Chopra – The Soul of LeadershipDeepak Chopra – Super Genes 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:00 – 00:05:01

Hey world. It’s Andrew Scott had a great conversation today about how to find out what you wanna be. When you grow. Welcome to job seekers radio. I’m Andrew, and I’m Scott this is a production meant to provide meaningful support to you to find great careers faster. And that’s whether you’re working or not today on job seekers radio. We’re really trying to answer. What am I going to do when I grow up? That’s right. Where we’re starting with this is the idea that what if the things that I enjoy doing don’t have any relevance or obvious applicability to the job that I man or maybe I just don’t know what I wanna do. When I grow up. What do I want to do as a career? Maybe I’m in a job that really isn’t lending itself to a career. But I don’t know how to do something different. We’re starting with the premise that you have a choice that everything in life to a certain extent is choice and your career is no different. Even if you might feel like you’re trapped or stuck, especially if you’re stuck right, especially if you’re stuck. I’ve I’ve said to people over time, I don’t have to do anything, but die. I don’t have to pay taxes losing my home and everything else is choice. I could make it. It’s not a good choice. But we always have choices to make. We may not have a wide variety of choices. And that’s really what we want to address here. Well, where do you start? You know, this this whole process starts with permission. And we talk about this ad nauseam throughout our podcast is that we have to allow ourselves the opportunity to give ourselves permission that it’s okay, right? We can actually look at this idea of passion or career choice or any of these decisions. We’re gonna make for ourselves professionally that it’s okay to do these things. What started this conversation for us was a blurb that I read recently about people coming out of college and not really wanting a knowing what to do in terms of their career. They were hoping to find their passion. Because so often. We hear the phrase find your passion because that’s going to make work fun. And it’s not gonna feel like work, but that works for only some of us some of us have an idea of what that looks like our feels like while others have gone through college. They’ve gone through a general education program, and they never found that passion. And so they end up getting a general decree not knowing what to do. So that the first thing that I thought of was first of all when you’re young and you’re starting out, and you’ve got a support network that whether that’s money that you acquire during college for those few who actually had college jobs that paid well, whatever that looks like randomly pick things that you feel good about that you enjoy doing. It doesn’t have to look like a career right now. The idea is you’re going to be mindful of how to turn that into a job later. But the idea really is just get out there and do things that are fun. When you have that kind of flexibility, you’re better off. Now, the other side of it is what about those people who don’t really like the work they’re doing, and they may have responsibilities to fulfil. There are ways that we can sort of slowly quietly dig into our own feelings about what we’re doing and pay attention to what makes us feel good because then you have a series of questions. You can ask yourself. The good news is if you’re coming out of college, this is the time to learn this skill because it’s likely you’re gonna get into building a family or get on later in your career and find that you’re dissatisfied with the career you’ve chosen and most of the data. We see says we’re going to have seven eight ten careers in our lives. So being really good at that transition from hey, what I have isn’t suiting me. Now, how do I get to something better? This is kind of a life skill. I also recognize that in in school as you’re being taught throughout elementary. Junior high school whatever that might be. They sell you on the fact that college is a solution all those problems of life that once you get your college degree, you’re gonna find gainful employment easily that life is going to make sense. And what I found most people that buy into that narrative come out not knowing what to do because the world really doesn’t care right? Is that we now have a decision to make s an adult with a college degree. What am I gonna do now? Yeah. I’m I would never try to talk. Anybody out of getting a college degree so often people use college degrees in terms of employment as an easy way to screen people? Oh, a you need a college degree for this job. When in fact, you probably don’t have you have enough experience. But it makes it easier for them to make the decisions and not feel responsible for effecting other people’s lives. Remember that universities? These days are all about making money as well.

00:05:01 – 00:10:04

So there are lots of variables involved. I still recommend getting a college degree. Because learning how to learn is probably the most important life skill. You’ll ever have also the idea of getting out beyond your current skill set, the university systems, generally give you challenges that you can do that you will grow by all means go for that start paying attention early on about how to make decisions that work for you. Because to your point Andrew the easy way out is to choose what somebody else tells you is going to make you happy, and you are the only person in the entire universe who can say what is going to make you happy. If you know what that is go for that and fear might be ruling your life right now. Because you’re afraid of what is good or who you’re trying to please. Or gosh. What if I make the wrong decision? Will you’re young enough. You have enough runway. Go ahead and make a wrong decision. Right. Take a chance. Go try something. That’s fun. Exciting energizing different than what? People expect you to do right because making a mistake when you’re fresh out of college, and you don’t have a mortgage or a family or other obligations that constrain some of your decisions. That’s the time that I would suggest you do this. If you’re not in that situation. We’re gonna talk about this in a minute. But if you’re not in that situation, if you do have responsibilities the only thing, that’s truly different is that there are certain individuals now that you should be consulting with to make these decisions with you. But we’ll come to that in a minute. Absolutely. And so creating this exciting future really has to do with maybe even currently or in the rear view mirror. Taking a look at those activities that you participated in that give you joy excitement. I mean time evaporates just recognizing all these things that you’ve participated in. And what does that mean to you? And what skills did you use during that time? I was reading something this morning that the comment was. Is to find something that you are so passionate about that. You look up four hours after you started and think, oh where did the time go that’s the kind of work if that’s the right word, we all look for and not very many people really land there when you have the opportunity to stop for a moment and look towards the future about what you would want to keep doing those activities that energize you that bring you that joy. That’s basically where you want to go exploring. Now, there are going to be different kinds of activities that bring that kind of energy a lot of it is going to be based on your own personal style. So if you’re the type that you really love to read and do research there, something that you can start looking at what topics could you research that you would really enjoy doing the chances are pretty good that somebody else is researching that, and you may want to reach out somehow doing now networking defined those people there are others who are going to get really passionate about doing. Physical things physical activities where they can exert their own personal power. These are all things that are relative to our style. Preferences, honor those preferences. This is what we call a vocation. And if you look at the root word vocation that means calling these are things that you might be drawn to to experiment part of this is hey, let’s recognize what we’re called to. But then there’s the other part saying am I really called to that? Ryan. So part of this wrestling match that happens in this process is identifying it and then trying it. Yes. Like an experimental process. How many times have we read the quote that the only things that you regretted the things you didn’t try whenever you have a chance to try something different go for it. And if it doesn’t work what have you lost except a little bit of time. Now people say, oh, well, you’ll never get that time back. Yes. But you’ve had an experience you would never have otherwise. And you can adjust course apps. Right. So if it doesn’t work out you adjust your course, and you find the one that works for you. And. And so the next word that I thought of when we are talking here is this idea of vocation, you can take that to the next level. And think about something that’s an avocation something I call to that. I love and so that that combination is dynamite. It’s like when you get there. You’re like. Wow. Okay. This is it now there are some things that well say, for example, maybe the thing that really brings you joy is really expensive to do. So you don’t have the ability to do it very often right now don’t let that temporary roadblock. Stop you from going further. I think one of the things that I learned in my life is when I was young I allowed other people to tell me if I was good at something. Or if I was not as well suited for a specific thing as I thought it was so for example, I was doing a lot of seeing. In fact, I was a professional singer per several years, and I wanted to get into jazz, and I had a record producer tell me that.

00:10:04 – 00:15:06

I don’t have the right voice for jazz. And I was so. Supported by that I stopped. That was my biggest mistake, even if I never hit it big as a jazz singer. It was what I really wanted to do that was my mistake. So as I talked to young people now, I tell them if you’re really passionate about something tried to do what Madonna did in my estimation. And maybe an opinion of one her greatest talent is not singing it isn’t. It’s not even dancing. It’s marketing and self promotion, and look what that talented. She is a master at it. How many times does she reinvented herself? Right. This is all about marketing, don’t let somebody else’s idea. Stop you from what you’re doing get that. Dr tell yourself. No one is going to stop you only. You can stop. You. Don’t let one person’s opinion or criticism. Stop you from moving forward because you’re not looking for the rule. You’re looking for the exception to the rule. Yeah. Right. You’re not looking for the all the people the majority of people that never have tried it and have an opinion about it. Right. You on. The people that have actually tried it and been successful. Trust me is going to be a minority of people. Absolutely. But once you find that person, you’re going to know. Okay. They’re not telling me the same story. These other eighty people just told me the they’re telling me a different story this morning. Another piece that I read was on E entertainment. I think in us about Julia Louis Dreyfuss, one of the things that that she picked up on was the idea that she had the ability to do what she wanted when she started with some individuals doing theater troupe in Chicago. She had this feeling like, I don’t know about this. But it feels like it could be big. And then when she auditioned after years of of other issues and lack of success when she was called in to audition for Seinfeld how she had that same. I don’t know about this. But it feels really good and she followed her gut instinct and look at what what a great great story. You may be in a position where you’re thinking. Okay. Andrews got this. All sounds great. You know, how do I implement something like this? How do I actually go out and do it? I’m balancing all these responsibilities. I need money money as part of this process. And you know, my hobby is a hobby. I don’t know how it could generate money. So all these doubts or resistance mechanisms start coming into my mind. I I mean, how do I how do I do that? How do I do this thing? Well, there are couple of approaches that I view and it really comes back to that idea. What’s your style? What’s going to work for you personally, because it has to work for you just because it’s worked for somebody else is not a guaranteed that it will be successful in your experience. But there are two approaches that I am aware of the first one was one that my grandmother my grandmother Davis. We called her, mama. What she would tell my mom when my mom was young. And that is when in doubt do nothing it’s a proverb that comes from before her time. And I have no idea where the sources the idea was when in doubt do nothing if you don’t know what to do stop. Pit tension to what’s going on around you and the answer will come in its own time. There’s great wisdom in this. But it means that you have to practice patients something that not everyone has now the other side of it was a quote that I heard many years ago by general Patton, and that is when in doubt, do something, and this is going to be more properly for those who are more assertive or wanted faster pace getting out and doing something gives them an idea of whether or not it’s going to work. We’ll get to the bottom of your actually solve a problem. Right. I haven’t problem. Let’s solve this problem. Now, what’s brilliant about knowing both approaches is if you can straddle the line between them you’re probably going to find some success here. Because if you move too fast, you might miss something. If you don’t move fast enough, you might miss something. Right. So here we have two completely opposite approaches and both will work. So how do you think you should choose just do it? I mean, honestly, I think. About nike. Well, let’s just do it. Right. So I’m a more action oriented task oriented person. And although I like to analyze things I know at the end of the day. Some somebody’s gotta make decision. And that’s gotta be on me. So this brings him back to that idea of get back to your gut feeling stop ignoring what your what your emotions with your passions are telling you for those who are coming out of college. And they have no idea what they wanna do with their life. That gut feeling is going to be giving them a lot of information that they don’t have any practice with. So get out there and practice with it. See what happens, and if research is your thing think you’re out of way to get some research done and find the details that will put you can put that big picture together on the other hand if you are action-oriented who wanted to go out and do it do it. What have you got to lose nothing produce something? I heard this actually on a talk premise was if you change yourself because your energy if you change yourself you change the world because if the world’s energy, and you’re part of that energy as soon as you change the day.

00:15:07 – 00:20:03

Dissonance or the energy? You’re putting into the world you actually change the world. You know? It’s really interesting. You bring that up because I was having a conversation recently about somebody who thinks that is just total baloney because there’s no way that, you know, the butterfly effect that I if I’m beating my wings that that suddenly the forest fires in Guatemala going to change it, probably right? But there are also those who believe that reality is only how we individually interpret the stimuli that come to us, and that everyone is having a complete separate experience, regardless of any of those details, if you change your perspective, you change your world. And isn’t that what this is about when you get to share that with the world? Sure. And so we knew change and do what you’re called to do. And you love it. You’re actually making the world a better place. I would agree. And if you get paid to do it even better, I find myself in that situation where I get the opportunity to help people like this podcast is one method, but helping people in career transition of some. Kind whether that’s a promotion or you get laid off and he needs something else or or your burned-out put us out different. Sure, you’ve been a stay at home mom for twenty years. And you know, how do I get back into the workplace, you know, all these different things I really feel called to do because I don’t like seeing people suffer and I like to be the the aspirin the pain reliever. The person who who helps send medicate that pain all in the right way, of course, positive way. Right. Well, and this brings us back to the idea of networking, which of course, we talk about every nearly every episode here. But the idea is to ask other people what they think it doesn’t matter. I would never ask the question. What do you think I should do because no one else can answer that question? I wouldn’t even ask. What would you do if I were in my if you were in my position because they’re not? But if you start asking questions about whatever, it is that you think might interest, you find people who know something about it. Those are the people that you’re asking. Well, isn’t that the definition? Of networking, if you’re putting it out there that this is something you wanna know more about and you’re talking to someone who doesn’t know anything about it. But they know somebody else who might that’s the definition of networking. This is what we wanna do start asking questions talk to people who may know, something different. Or may have a different perspective. Maybe somebody who has a lot of experience, but don’t neglect. Those who have no experience just ideas because you might be on to something that is truly revolutionary don’t let that stop you either. And just use as a resource to meet the right people. Alright. So not everybody is going to be a home run. But they might be a base hit or lead to something better. I I was just thinking, you know, in the cycle of life. What you’re going to be when you grow up is entirely up to you. And whether you’re just out of school, or you know, somebody that’s our age. Well, I don’t have any Gregor yet. You’re you’re having me neither. They call. It Klatten platinum is the new gray. I’m going. Yeah. I guess whatever. It is be the change that you want to see in the world, you know. And I think that’s something that we can all use in our daily walk in our careers to to know that we’re actually making a difference and something else that occurs to me as for those who say, for instance, continue on the family business, and they are they may be criticized in some fashion by those who see that as being unimagined tive. If that’s really what you wanna do do it. Because again, we’re looking for the things that that we can get really deeply involved in and look up for hours later and think wow. Where did the time go without feeling Bruton having having spent those four hours doing it? We want people to be encouraged to do that. Now, obviously there are times when we’d have responsibilities whether that be a family, whether it’s you know, to your point of mortgage that you have to pay for other kinds of responsibilities that involve other people those that you have committed. Yourself to should be a part of the conversation when you’re looking to change whether it’s changing careers or whether it’s establishing a a real career. Maybe you’ve been trying something that hasn’t been paying enough. Maybe it’s something that you’ve been really successful in and made a lot of money, but you just don’t wanna do it anymore. Talk to people about some new ideas have them involved. So that you’re getting a bigger perspective. Because then it’s not as if you’re leaving them behind as you start to shift. They will be shifting with you, and it will be a much more rewarding experiences a result. Well, and you’ll have markers you’ll have people along the way that can document your success NBN and be a participant in it with you. Right. And so that’s called community and building a community is super important because those people that help you you can in turn help later. Absolutely. And I would also caution trying not to listen too much to those who tell you can’t do something whatever that looks like.

00:20:03 – 00:21:27

Oh well. Do you really think that’s wise at this point comeback with the response? Yes. It is. And then move towards back towards the ideas. People who want you to stay where you are are not going to be the ones that support you in moving forward. And if it’s somebody like a spouse this now comes into other issues because if they’re not supporting you because they’re relying on you. They are absolutely going to need to be part of the change so deeper conversations are happening there, and we’re not there persona to go there today, and we don’t play one on the radio. Now there we go. Well, I just wanted to thank you so much for joining us today to talk about career choice, and what you’re gonna do. When you grow up. I’d like to call you to our website job seekers radio dot com. You can get the show notes there, and you can also download a free resource in it’s called the anatomy of networking conversation. It’s an e book download that you can grab off of our website absolutely free to you. Just go to job seekers radio dot com forward slash zero three five to get the show notes and the free download send you over to itunes and subscribe to get future podcasts. And while you’re there if you provide us a rating or a review, we really appreciate the feedback that we get well, this is Andrew, and I’m Scott until next time be the change you want to see in the world.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Attending a networking support group isn’t always convenient or meeting your needs. Scott and Andrew discuss the finer points on creating your own group.

Listen to the podcast that makes a different in your career acceleration by establishing your own job club.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Overcoming thoughts of inadequacy
• Finding the right location
• Time investments and scheduling
• Group member identification and personality
• Structure, format, agenda, and expectations
• Being an effective meeting moderator
• Recruiting leadership and assigning meeting tasks to others
• Foster an environment that is similar to your personality 
• Promotion and advertising made easy
• Qualities of successful groups

Resources (including affiliate links)

033 Finding a Job Seekers Group 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:00 – 00:05:06

Hey world. It’s Andrew in this episode of job seekers radio. We give you some pointers. Some tips on how to start manage and promote your own job seekers support group. Welcome to job seekers radio. I’m Andrew, and I’m Scott, this is a podcast dedicated to providing you meaningful support to find great careers faster. Whether you’re working or not we are coming to you from the city of Portland that is a city of roses today on job seekers radio were talking about how to create your own job seekers group. Right. We know that there are going to be some of our audience members who don’t have access to a job group or they don’t have. They don’t know of one they’ve done their search. They’ve talked to different people. And there just isn’t one in your area. We want to encourage people to start their own. They shouldn’t feel as if there is no one out there that can help them there is because there’s always going to be others who are also looking for work. It’s simply getting in touch with them, creating your own actually gives you a sense of purpose and. A bit of control when you have choices and how to set it up. How often to have it where we’re gonna talk about an a minute. This gives you that sense of freedom. Freedom choice implies freedom. John Whitmore who wrote coaching for performance talks about this. As you provide yourself or others choices in what they can do. It gives them a sense of empowerment, and that means they are free to make the choice or not. So in doing this. You’re actually creating your own access to the help you need by reaching out to people who are in a similar situation. I think of a lot of the groups that we’ve participated in over the years and a lot of those really they were organic in their creation and somebody was out of work or looking for work, and they met somebody else who was out of work and looking for work and said, hey, let’s get together and make it might have been something very simple as just two people. Meeting for coffee once a week, right? We’ve talked in the past about the beer’s network here in Portland. It was a small group of executives who were all found themselves on employed at the same time who were getting together for a beer once a week or once every other week, just to socialize. And they thought why not make this into a group for those like us? So that’s how that group started. It really is that easy. Don’t over think. It don’t think it’s gotta be the some perfect group where everything’s gotta be an order. We are going to give you some guidelines some things here from our experience that it actually helped us build a group that is successful. We wanted to start with logistics. You know, how do you set it up? And where do you have it in all rat? What are your thoughts on that? Well, I think it’s really important to do a works for you. If there isn’t a group out there that that is available or accessible, then as you create one do what works for you select the days times locations that worked for your schedule. If you have a young family, for example, and you can’t be too far from home. They’re usually places where you can meet coffee shops are all often a great way to start that some of them even have small meeting rooms or you know, side corners, where if you talk to the manager they’re often willing to let you set up a little bit of space to to have these regular meetings as long as it’s not ten people. But then you can get started. There we have landed in the the local shopping mall. It’s indoors they have cafe tables. It’s open to the public from early in the morning for mall walkers. This is another thing that you can do as long as you’re not breaking any rules. And the the space is public and available find it be creative. But do what works for you? We’ll just draw a circle around your house. Maybe you know, one or two miles from your home and say, okay, there’s probably a library there. I’ve. Seen these groups at a library. I’ve seen them. I we held it at my real estate office when I’ve selling real estate it could have been at a title company or a mortgage, right knee, or a what’s another place that no it could be one of a number of places when they have a meeting room if it’s going to be at a time, for example, when it was in your offices. We met before the office actually opened you would be there to open up the door. So we could get in, but they weren’t going to be using that conference room. So reach out to your friends or or acquaintances who have access to these kinds of meeting rooms, see if you can work something out one of the things once you’ve chosen a place that you wanna make sure you do is that you have a regular rhythm that you have the meeting every so often. So if it’s like ours, you want we put it together every other week, and we make sure it’s every other week.

00:05:06 – 00:10:02

So that people can start to count on that if they haven’t been there too. Experience our networking group. They want to know where it is. So that they can come by check it out. See if it works. And if they don’t know anybody making it hard to find is going to keep the numbers down. We want to consider how accessible that is to everyone. And if they know wind defined you as well as where it’s going to make it easier to grow that group that brings up time, and I know one of the things when I was moderating breakfast club for the at the first it started at eight o’clock, and it went for two hours and didn’t get over till ten and it made me a little jittery because I was building a real estate business and that was productive hours. Right. I ended up moving it to seven thirty and saying this is over in an hour and a half. Right. And the reason I did that is it was personal right? I was being selfish. If you wanna call it that. But I was what ended up happening in one of the side effects of that was it actually. Eliminated a bunch of people that were just using it as a diversion or a time-waster. Okay. Sure. Whatever and it helped give them back the day. So that they could go network or. Exactly. And and still they felt like there half their day was not wasted to exactly some of the groups that I’ve been in the past when they hold them in like mid afternoon. We would have people not show up to those because they had interviews. Well, by all means go to the interview, if if you have to make a choice between the job club and an interview I would air towards the interview one hundred percent because if that’s going to lead you to your next dream job. It would be a crime to prioritize a networking group over that. But with that said when you create your own make it at a time when it’s less likely to dig into people’s schedules when their interviews or going to happen, and that’s going to differ on where you are the job. You’re looking for in what industry all of those variables play part? But you want to make sure that you’re making this amenable to as many people as possible. In both directions. The can also as we do invite people who may be hiring managers. We have a couple of friends one is he he has a real estate business and other one has a financial planning business and other one is an HR manager, and they come periodically to give advice to give the lay of the land from their perspective. And it’s always interesting to the job seekers that are attending. Sometimes these things don’t really have to be in person. Although there is benefit to that. So some of our listeners may be or in a remote space or they don’t have access to other people locally. It’s not out of bounds to think. Hey, why don’t we just meet on Google hangout or shore, a zoom or whatever they call it nowadays. And for those who don’t like to leave home. This is perfect. Actually, if you’re the introvert, and you just you want a home base job in you. You just don’t want to leave the house, that’s understandable. While we are going to incur. Urge you to get out there and meet people in person by creating a job group that is web based that can reach all those other people who prefer that web based environment as well. So you’re not necessarily wasting your time. Exactly. So that brings us to in agenda, and this is something that I’ve seen used differently in different groups. And so this might be a determining factor for how you put together yours is if you’re starting a group go visit a bunch of different groups and see what you like about each one. And maybe if there isn’t any I guess you’d be creating one, but that’s a good way to go and find what works, and what doesn’t for you is by visiting these other groups, right? And if you need advice on on putting this together, I would recommend looking for job seekers groups in other communities say for instance, if you’re in a rural area outside of of metropolitan area will just say Seattle, you can actually find job seekers groups in Seattle and. To see if you can contact them to get advice on how to set one up in your area again, whether or not there’s a an agenda every group does a little bit differently. I will say for an effective meeting in the job, a written agenda is generally preferred it gives you an idea of what you’re going to be talking about and how to stay on task. That’s not going to be true in a group like this necessarily. However, if the kind of work, you’re looking for is one is the type that uses agendas by all means replicate your business environment in this to a certain degree while being open to others to join.

00:10:02 – 00:15:07

It gives them the sense that this is business oriented job group. And that really helps everybody involved it gives each participant. Maybe a job to do. And so by having an agenda, you might have a certain amount of time allotted for each person while you could have timekeeper that gives somebody value who likes to keep time. Great play. You can have somebody taking notes or scribe. And so you give that person something to do and the more refined. You have I think this process. The better results you’re going to have for everybody. Sure. And it doesn’t all rely on you, you can get other people helping as they start to attend. You have a system put together it can run on its own. And so that’s the whole point of maybe standing up one of these groups is get it to a point where it can run it self right without your inter- intervention. Always come back to what works for you. Because the chances are good that that is going to work for other people as well. And every group is different. It’s going to have its own brand. It’s going to have its own look and feel if you will. So again, if you’re starting out with what works for you with the idea that you’re not the only one who’s going to appreciate that it’s going to be able to build organically. But you’re also going to need to have some kind of focus so for example with ours. The breakfast club we had into. Mix and accountability piece. And it’s not that we are going to hold. Our our attendees accountable. They’re holding themselves accountable, and we simply facilitate that that’s one of the differentiator for hours find the differentiator for you and focus on that. Whether it’s industry related, whether it’s community related, whatever that looks like some of these groups actually have an educational component. So they may bring in a guest speaker, or if it’s done by career coach, they might have a career coach give a session on interviewing or or networking or doing a resume or any or any of those things look at the agenda and make it easy on yourself. Really? Right. Trying to fill in agenda with the guest speaker every week or every other week is going to be a challenge that that may not work every time. But if you can get it to work once a month once every other month, whatever that might be it makes things interesting and people will want to keep coming. Yeah. So I was mentioning before breakfast club. And how it had? I’ve kinda gotten off the rails that the meetings were taking two hours. Plus, we were having thirty forty people in the room, and it was just getting unmanageable. And that’s when I actually in introduced the idea of accountability the same people keep showing up to the meeting. They’re not progressing. They’re not changing their right? They’re not really doing anything except show up to the meeting which is good, which is good. It’s good to a point. It’s something. Yeah. It’s something. I get. It was frustrating for me, though, is a moderator to see people coming back. And so I I made a New Year’s resolution then say I was going to be the last guy sitting at the table, and it backfired on me because as soon as I instituted accountability into the group. More people started showing up right? Why do you think that is? Well, it’s because it’s helping people to take the next step without it being a danger zone. I know some people are afraid of being called out if they haven’t done something we’d make such a point of letting people know, we are not. Judging we are here to help. And that’s all we’re here for but you’re making a promise to yourself. Now, you will get a job as fast as you put the effort into it. If we can help increase that effort without it being overwhelming, then we’re doing our job. So there’s a couple of components in breakfast club that will share with you. I think helped makes it effective each person is given a certain allotted mounted time to speak, and it gives them an opportunity to share a branding message. I think that’s really important that if you’re out networking, and you’re trying to position yourself in the marketplace for a certain job opportunity that having a branding message is really critical to your success. Right. And if you don’t know what that looks like do a Google search believe me, there’s plenty of information online that can help you put something together. Now, that’s not going to be a situation where you write it out. And suddenly, it’s brilliant of oil, I suppose as possible, but that doesn’t happen. Very often. Usually Hugh refined this over time you find what works. What doesn’t and and this is great. But in that. You find your purposes? Well, and if you’re creating your own job group, this is critical to the differentiation and getting people interested to come get out there find with that brand statement looks like both in terms of the job you’re looking for and your own job search as well as the group, and also if you do create the group don’t be afraid that you’re not going to be let it go. If you get the job, you will be the idea is get more people involved who can help you lead it, and then you can come back to it as time permits we also after branding statement. We really wanted to have an idea of you know, what what maybe job titles or companies that people are targeting so we can help facilitate that introduction process.

00:15:08 – 00:20:05

So if you deliver branding message, and you share some target companies people are more than happy, or or at least enticed to make an introduction for you to people inside their network, right? Which might be the whole purpose of this thing in the first place and setting. -tations for example, on time that’s going to be dependent upon how many people show up. So if you’ve set aside an hour and a half and one person shows up that person gets an hour and a half, right? But with that said, you can help guide these conversations, and if brainstorming is really going to be what helps your group the most then set aside the time for brainstorming where people get just get to spend their first three minutes just throwing ideas out there and make it a fun experience. People want to come back if it’s fun. I also think people are looking for feedback because in the marketplace, if you’re doing applicastions and resumes, and you know, you’re not hearing anything you’re not getting feedback. And so people don’t know. So the grew right should be a place where people can come share their messaging or Syrah share their stuff and get solid feedback from somebody that’s objective and maybe outside of their circle of friends. The only caveat that I would give or word of wisdom. If you’re putting your own group together, you will undoubtedly. Have someone come to your group who is rambler? They just talk and talk and talk and while there’s a place for that. And I don’t mean that to sound like they shouldn’t come they. They’re welcome. But there are times when you’re going to have to help them get to the point or to wrap it up to allow other people to talk. If you set that ground rule in the beginning stopping them from rambling won’t feel like such a shock or an interruption. They’ll know that this is part of the rules, and that they should expect some kind of help in wrapping it up. So that that’s one thing as a moderator you’ll want to be prepared for. Fortunately, I can tell you. It doesn’t happen often. Most of the time it’s manageable. Scotty done talking. Yes. Okay. Because you are one of those I have. So do you think? You have to have a strong moderator to get Scott. You know, kind of corralled in maybe. Yeah. That’s the branding piece of it in and the process in some ideas or thoughts around in agenda or focus the you might consider for your group. The next step maybe promoting it is getting the word out that it’s available and you want people to come it. This is one of the most daunting parts of creating group. And I’m here to tell you it is not as difficult as it sounds. We often don’t like to promote ourselves for a number of reasons I won’t bother going into because we’ve talked about those in prior podcasts, but it’s a little intimidating to start out. So think about where you spend your time. If you’re on Facebook, you can create a page on Facebook for your group and start promoting it among your friends. We’ve talked about event bright it’s a fantastic resource to put your group out there. It’s free of charge. And I’m surprised at how popular it? Has become people actually use it. So I highly recommend event. Bright to to forward information about your group breakfast club, actually gets one or two registrations. Every week. It’s not it’s working for us. And we get people coming because of it right at her in the community. So we’re I know that people are looking at it and similar to meet up, which is another one different areas will use these differently. So for example, in southern California, meet up is more social than it is business networking meet up has a number of business networking groups hair in the Pacific northwest Facebook generally runs the gamut. I don’t know about event bright if it’s popular in other parts of the country. But it’s definitely a good place to work to look. And then of course, there’s Lincoln highly recommended because that is a business networking website, use the resources that they have available many of them are free, and you may even want to promote it to career coaches. And all these people that you’re reaching out to actually to create the group might also be good people to promote the group to their networks excellence. So not not a bad idea to send people messages through Lincoln to help them understand what your group is and how to promote it, and you know, maybe even inviting people to come and not only that. But if you’re talking to the placement companies or a temporary agencies have ’bout this. And and would they mention it they if they aren’t doing it that may give them the idea to start one, and that sort of takes the pressure off you it’s great good idea. We’re gonna share now maybe some ideas or thoughts about keys to successful groups, or how how this group can survive for longevity purposes, or maybe I shouldn’t say survive, but that was been my experience when you lose a leader or a moderator or somebody.

00:20:05 – 00:23:22

That’s a strong force inside of a particular group that group tends to falter Schorr. And ultimately, it’s okay because there will always be an. Opportunity to bring it back. If there’s a need the one thing I’ll say as advice to a potential moderator is to be authentic make this group your group. You don’t want to try to be somebody or not because that that lack of authenticity won’t allow the trust to build. So as you are leading this group, the authentic with what’s important to you. What your priorities are how you want this meeting to go and allow the input to come. But if someone is coming in and challenging that. You know, I I would say B B firm be your leader. Either leader you want to to have in one characteristic of all good leaders is their ability to listen. Absolutely. And as you’re starting out, you may want to listen to what the group needs might be and see if you can’t Commodore that absolutely by doing. So you may end up getting more people coming because you do good by one person they may refer or recommend someone. Else come as well coming back to the idea not every group fits every individual as you’re listening. Listen for the things that one you can do better to that may augment or complement what you’re already doing look for ways to involve them. So it’s not just listening to their words you actually want to implement as much as you can without losing your own identity. And you know, you may want to pick up a partner. Right. Great idea, we co moderate the breakfast club. And so having some sort of partner somebody that maybe shows up, and hey, maybe there’s only three of you while recruit one of those people to help you moderate the group if you end up going on vacation, absolute or unin interview, or what have you? There’s always something that might come up that would lead you to position of needing another person to help you out. Right. And if you’re already assigning different duties within the groups, whether it’s a time keeper or the the person taking the notes, these are often people who would then step up and actually help moderate if you could. Could be there. Well, thank you for joining us for this episode of job seekers radio. We have shown notes and resources available at job seekers radio dot com forward slash zero three four. Thanks everybody for joining us. We we appreciate your investment of time and attention and head over to itunes and subscribe to get future episodes while you’re there, would you please provide us a rate and review. We wanna thank those who have already done that. Because we’re actually showing now on the eighteen store as a rated podcast. So we thank you so much in advance for going there and helping us spread the message, right and leave us feedback. So that we can continue to improve this. If there are topics you’d like us to discuss we’ve done that before where we’ve had requests people want to know more of about our opinions on different topics. So please give us some feedback. Let us know what is working for you. What is not working for you? Let us help you. But we’ve got to hear from you. I this is Andrew, and I’m Scott until next time take a chance get out there and start a group have some fun too.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Networking is the #1 way to find great new career opportunities. Getting your feet wet can be easy with a job seekers networking group. They go by many names, but with a common goal of connecting and facilitating.

Andrew and Scott share experiences with you on how and where to find networking groups for career seeking professionals..

Don’t miss these Topics:

• How to Stay Resilient
• Networking as a never-ending-activity
• Common places that have networking resources.
• Community colleges, Alumni groups, and University career resources.
• Library and Public meeting places.
• Professional associations
• Outplacement, career/job coaches, and headhunters.
• Local newspaper/classifieds
• Local business magazine
• Chamber of Commerce

Resources (including affiliate links)

What Color is Your Parachute
Unemployment Insurance Benefits Department of Labor
Eventbrite
Meetup
Business Journal 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:00 – 00:05:00

Welcome to job seekers radio. I’m Andrew, and I’m Scott, this is a podcast dedicated to providing meaningful support to find great careers faster. Whether you’re working or not we are coming to you from the city of Portland that is the city of Rosas today job seekers radio were talking about finding networking groups for job seekers. Specifically, those groups where job seekers congregate to help each other support each other in finding opportunities and really also providing maybe a little moral support right people think of support group says being something designed only for mental health you can make the claim that this helps the mental health of those who are looking for work, especially when you are looking for work for a long period of time right now, we’re in what is considered a tight job market. But that doesn’t mean that everybody gets a job right away, especially the higher the position the longer you’ve been in a career. It may not be quite as quick for you. We want to encourage everyone to look for job seekers groups that will support one another both with networking as well as ideas on how to be resilient now. It’s interesting when you’re in a job for a long time. You haven’t had a need to network and finding these groups is kind of a low stakes way for you to get started in the idea of networking would be, hey, I haven’t done this before can I practice with somebody where the stakes are low. These groups are very attractive to me primarily because I like to contribute to them. And I know you do to Scott by me, we do that currently through a group called the breakfast club. And I found that the more that I do it. The more situations. I see the more helpful. I can be right to to people. Right. We pick up the the the nuances that happened in between everyone tells and I heard this quote a while ago every. Nobody tells the same story just different versions of it. And so as we see the different versions were able to synthesize some new ideas and often we are brainstorming in these conversations. But that’s the point of a support group year. Not it’s not a good idea to walk into one thinking, I have all the answers. Or by the same token. I have none of the answers. We often have the answer somewhere in our heads. We just need open up the right doors or create the right connections in our minds to actually come across. Oh, I haven’t tried that. Or I haven’t done that in a long time. You you’re really restarting the process as you say if you’ve been in your job for a long time in you haven’t been networking one of the things that I learned during one period of unemployment that lasted three years for me that was really tough at the same time. I was told that I had all the answers within me. And so in working through those I actually. I found the way to be resilient while I was unemployed, and that’s what these groups are for. And it made you a better person on the other side, really and you came out resilient not only in that situation. But in life right in different things. Well, and that the the biggest lesson I learned from that is never stopped networking never. We talk about networking within our organizations that is vital to to creating that practice. Not having those muscles get weak or atrophied you want to practice. You wanna work out your networking muscles, the advantage that that gives you is. Nobody stays in a job forever. Eventually they’ll move onto something else. They may retire. They move to another company, but your network has long as you’re working it will continue to expand. If you keep practising. So if you find yourself without a job, you will already have a network that you can go back to. So these groups there’s. Lots of them here. Actually in our area, Portland, Oregon is actually pretty flush with groups and we’re involved in the community. So we know where they are. But it may not be easy for somebody. That’s out in the community trying to find a job Scott to actually densify these groups, right? And so we’re going to give you the listener some ideas of places on where you can find a job seekers groups, and we really recommend that you visit many of them to find the ones that work best for you. Right. Every single one of these groups is going to have a different style. A different twist a different offering, and we don’t expect everyone to fit in every group. We all have different styles. We all have different priorities. So here’s our opportunity then to approach this as fat on a fact-finding mission where I’m going to go to all of the groups that I can find and see which one is actually going to benefit me the most. And if that’s just to make me feel the best. That’s okay. Because eventually you’ll.

00:05:00 – 00:10:00

See where it leads you. And if it isn’t leading you in the direction, you want there are there’s another one that you can join or it’s an opportunity for you to actually make a difference in that group, if it’s not to the level or standard that you wanna sure, and I think that’s something that you did when you came to breakfast club is, hey, there was an opportunity for you to contribute Sharm. You wanted to take her group in the way that these groups really take on the the personality of the the folks that are moderating shore the first place in the first location that you can look for these groups is something called job club. Now. This is something that goes way back, and there’s actually I think of book I think is out of print, but there is a philosophy about job club where it was set up like a sales organization, right? And you had show up to jog club at eight o’clock and from eight o’clock to noon, you would be setting up meetings and from noon to five o’clock, you’d be out meeting people. Right. And it was the the premise was making job out of looking for a job. We’ve. I’ve seen other groups take that to be a little less structured it. But it as you say, it’s not a new idea. It’s something that works for a lot of people. Whether there is one in your area will depend on the the kind of marketplace that you live in. But I would start out by doing a simple internet. Search a Google search for job club to see what comes up in your area. Yeah. You what you might find is people call it job club. But it’s not really job club. It’s right. It’s they’re using the name to name their club not actually following the same principles. Absolutely. But then you can also bring that to those job clubs in your search in the way, you conduct your time. So if you find the the the book if it is out of print on sure that you’ll be able to find resources online there. They actually have a snippet of the concept inside of what color is your parachute. There’s actually a whole chapter on effective job. Search extent, I think is actually really good. And so we’ll leave a copy of that resource in the show notes. The next area, I suggest people go. At least in Portland is worked source now that is a division of the department of labor that’s actually administered by the state of Oregon. Right. So in your state, it might be called something different, right and California. For example. It’s the economic development department or employment development department. Sorry. It’s everybody calls it EDD, but they contract with private entities to actually do the job seeking help. I was involved with that many years ago when I got laid off from job when I was working LA. It was a really good resource. They do a lot of things to help you build your skills in looking for work. If you don’t have a computer at home, they will make computers available to you. They have different workshops that you can attend and all of that is free of charge. It’s paid by tax money. So it’s trying. To get people back into the workforce, giving them skills to find those jobs for which they are actually qualified the leaders that sometimes facilitate those programs also have a job seekers group or a networking meet up, then they also moderate, I know here in in Hillsborough, which is a suburb of Portland they have one on Mondays and Fridays in it’s geared around high-tech. So there’s a high-tech networking group that’s facilitated by a resource out of work source. Right. And you’ll find the contact information for your local labor labor office. I would give them a call and ask to speak with someone who knows about these resources that can help get you started in your search. I if you are unemployed, and you don’t know about this resource. That’s that that’s offered through your state. I think that’s probably your top priority is to. Contact them and make yourself available to their resources there. You don’t have to pay anything for it. And they’re usually up-to-date occasionally, they will have restrictions if you’re not an unemployment or employment compensation, or you know, they designate people round you go in there. So there are certain services that that may not be available. So I think Scott his right. It’s an it’s grew idea to actually call them and see what resources aren’t available to you. So that you don’t end up spending half the day finding the local office waiting in line and taking a number and right, and that’s good point. Every state has different rules in my experience. They would take anybody in that office. It wasn’t like unemployment benefits where the qualifications are pretty strict. This was have you don’t have work. We will help you find it. But that was the office that I worked in in Long Beach, California. I know that different states work a little differently and the the office.

00:10:00 – 00:15:00

Mrs here generally will help you navigate that. Well, if if you aren’t eligible, they typically have a list of resources, or or can point you in the rice correction says Iceland, the next location is community colleges in a lot of these Labor Department programs could potentially be delivered through a community college. But it’s also an additional resource that you might consider to find some of these groups, right? Some states offer vocational training at no cost or at a nominal cost. These are also really good ways to meet people when you find them at the community college level, you’re opening up even more doors to your networking when you go there, and you’re talking to people who are involved in either administering these workshops or somehow connected tangentially, if you can get into conversation with them, you’re going to open your network even further so it’s a really good way to meet people. But you also. So can attend these meetings that have a theme or purpose or some commonality. So that you’re not talking to just a complete stranger. You may be talking to somebody. You don’t know. But with a similar skill set or similar expertise or similar experience. So you have something in common that really facilitates the conversation while again, you may want to place a phone call to the community college information desk. Sure, what have you go to their website do a search on on an event calendar or or see what sort of groups might be available that are meeting there? Right. And then there’s also the large colleges and universities. There alumni groups almost always have some kind of job helper. Whatever that’s called it at the different university’s. But they they want to help their graduates to move on in their careers. That is the point of getting the college education. Right. If you are a college graduate, your alumni association is a great place to. Start and you don’t have to be in the same community where your university is. For example. I went to a university in a different state, but they can put me in touch with other alumni here in the Portland area while that so it just occurred to me that libraries might be another resource because they are a public place where groups can meet so not uncommon. If you went to the local library the community library, you might find a list of events in long behold, one of the events that that particular room is blocked off for is some kind of career search group, right? Great point. Professional associations are another avenue that you can take. If you are a member of an association of you’re probably are already aware of job postings that they have there. But if you are in professional line of business that has an associated association connected to it or debt is made up of people within. In your industry. That’s a really good resource. Now, they will have membership dues, but some of them offer scholarships. So if you are not employed, but you do have the expertise, you can actually get around that by being allowed to attend their job seekers groups, and then hopefully finding the job you would become the member of the other thing, I considered since I am one is local career coaches is sometimes they’ll be privy to different groups that are available and where they meet, and it’s not uncommon that I give somebody just a list of local resources so that they can take advantage of them. It’s also not uncommon that a career coach might actually be leading one of these job seekers groups as do as I do with the breakfast club. Although, you know, it really just depends on your which you’re looking to get out of it. I do it as a community service because it was something that really helped me, right? There’s usually a cost involved in with most coaches, but I it’s been my experience. That reaching out to them and having a first conversation sort of an introductory session. They often will waive a fee for that to at least get people on the right track. If they feel that they can help you with your search, and you have the resources to pay that I highly recommend it. Because now you have one on one help where they can help you figure out where your gaps are in whether that’s in your networking or in your job search specifically, whether it’s resume that you need to tweak. Whether it’s the way, you put your cover letter together job coaches are incredibly helpful. If you have the resources to pay for them. Now, there’s also outplacement companies companies that actually are helping people transition from employment to being laid off to actually finding employment again. And so the outplacement companies a lot of times, we’ll have not only list of or access.

00:15:01 – 00:20:00

To some kind of resources, but they may also hold those kind of networking events inside their their company offices. Yes, I’ve participated in those they’re very helpful. If only to help me expand my network now, I’ve it’s been kind of hit miss on some of them, and I’ve gone to a number of them different different brands, if you will not every single event is going to give you a silver bullet not every single networking opportunity is going to help you make that next contact. But again, it’s going to help you connect with the other people looking and to help you in that sense of support. So I still even if you don’t meet somebody that’s taking you to the next level in every time you go. It’s still worth going the next thing to consider his head owners or recruiting firms. I’ve run across recruiting firms all the time that are having these networking things to find candidates, right? And so it’s an opportunity for them to host something do a community. Service and and find some candidates right and the temporary job placement. Companies says, well, they can be really instrumental one if you really need a job. Now, it won’t be a real high pay most of the time, but you will be working, and when you can show that you’re working for this temporary agency for the period of time when you’re still looking for that dream job, you will fill the unemployment gap. So in your resume, you won’t have a gap. You’ll show that you are working for the temporary agency when it comes to recruiting firms or head hunters. They also will be that they have a vested interest. If they they they’re working with you. They have an interest in placing you. So it’s not just a grind. They they can be really instrumental one thing that I learned working with some head hunting organizations is that they are going to create a different version of your resume. Nearly every company gives you a different view. They want. Something slightly different. And one of the recruiters that I talked to a little more than a year ago. Made the best gave me the best advice. I’d heard and that is keep using the resume that gets you calls if there’s one that you got some responses for and another one that you didn’t use the one that got you the responses it’s always good to get that kind of firsthand input. From a valued source store ahead hunter. I also think it’s important to maybe look at church groups, faith, based organizations that have some kind of ministry out there that, you know, even though you may not be into that kind of thing. They’re still valuable and what comes to mind for me is a lake grove Presbyterian. And what they do here in Portland that they have whole program set up. They assign you a mentor. They have curriculum. They meet every week. I mean, it’s a real rail program, and it’s not faith based in the sense that they’re going to try to convert you that’s what really turned turned me. Around with them. Because of course, I made the assumption that they were going to try to bring me into their church fold and not just helped me drive you right? And that’s not the case with this group. There may be some that do and if that’s not your thing if you’re not part of that community. That’s okay. Find one that does it differently. But the point is your faith based organizations are a community. And if there is an opportunity for you, especially if you have an affinity with that group, you’re going to open up more doors to the networking that is going to get you eventually talking to the right people. So how do we find these things we’ve talked around a lot of different resources, and hey, just do a Google search or a couple of the sites that I would highly recommend the first one being event bright. And that’s where we advertise the breakfast club primarily because it’s free, and we don’t charge for it. So for us to have a paid service doesn’t make sense. So I think there’s going to be a lot more. I’m just making assumptions posted on event bright, and you. You can go to a bright dot com. Just do a simple search in your area. And maybe we would recommend some a keywords to search for. Sure. Just to clarify event. Bright, be our IT. I’m surprised at how well used that site has become it used to be just for a special events and trying to get people to buy tickets to it and over the past few years that they’ve been around they really have taken often branched out into things other than specific events like concerts, and and small theater ticket sales. The like, they’re really becoming very popular. So I agree. I would start there. The other place have ago is meet up. Meet up dot com is well known within the job seekers general community. I will say that different cities have different levels of our participation some cities, for example, where I was in southern California years ago. Meet up was not really big on the job, finders arena. They were more about the social networking. You could.

00:20:00 – 00:23:00

Find a few in some key areas. But here in Portland there are a lot of networking opportunities listed there. And I know there are in other cities as well. So when you go to those sites type in keywords like job club or professional networking for career seekers. Whatever you wanna do just use those keyword strings, and and see what you can find in your local community. Right networking is an important word to include. Obviously job would be something you want put in there to be sure to put your greater metropolitan area name in there. So you’re reaching beyond. If you live in a small town, you mentioned Hillsborough. That’s where I live. It’s a relatively small town. But if I put Portland it will include Hillsborough. So just bear that in mind when you’re doing your search it occurred to me another resource might be a local newspaper and a lot of those gone online. But they’re still publishing an event for a certain things or they might run a story about a job seekers grew or an. And they still have classifieds. And I know that sounds, but they still have them. And it’s it’s great because now you’re not looking at a national database, and whatever they give you you’re looking for things that are really local the other thing would be the business newspapers like for us. It was his journal the business journal, which I think is a national by large cities, the other one would be Oregon business pressure. There’s a business magazine or publication in your geography and call your chamber of commerce. They’ll no they’ll have resources available as well. There are other ideas. So what we’d like to do at? This point is to have you go to job seekers radio dot com and give us feedback on some of the tips that you would provide others in looking for networking groups where open to answer questions or to forward, new ideas. We don’t have all the ideas here. So please, let us know what works for you. Good a job seekers radio dot com forward slash zero three three that will bring it to the show notes for this episode. There’s a spot at the bottom where you can leave a comment or you can go up to the upper right hand side of the webpage, and there’s a contact us. But narrower you can out, you know, send us a personalized message. We need additional support. We’d love to hear from you. Well, thank you for joining us for this episode of job seekers radio, your investment of time and attention is greatly appreciated so head on over to I tunes and subscribe to get future, future episodes. And while you’re there, please. If you will give us a review rate this podcast, and let us know what you think your feedback has really important to us. And I would like to thank you the listener for actually getting us to the point where we’re our reviews are actually now showing on items. Pat’s so thank you. Your contributions are greatly appreciated to helping us get to this point in our journey until next time. All right. This is Scott, and I’m Andrew thanks so much.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Getting noticed by a hiring manager can take some effort. You have interest in a company or even a specific position, but are unsure about how to get on the radar.

Scott and Andrew discuss some strategies for finding hiring managers and getting their attention.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Getting around the applicant tracking system (ATS) and recruitment processes.
• Reverse engineering the roles and industry trends based on research to craft attention grabbing mindsets.
• Leveraging industry associations and relationships to get introductions.
• Position your expertise to align with current events and trends.
• Tracking and keeping tabs on hiring managers of interest through authentic engagement.
• Identifying problems you solve or can help them avoid proactively.
• Incubating and updating hiring managers with valued content.
• Be an extension of the hiring manager’s work by becoming a subject-matter expert (SME) and bringing information back to the team.
• Share the truth about your capabilities and accomplishments.
• Volunteering alongside hiring managers with similar interests.

Resources (including affiliate links)

What Color is Your Parachute 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

00:00:02 – 00:05:01

welcome to Job Seekers Radio Andrew and I’m Scott. This production is meant to provide you meaningful support to find great careers faster. And that’s why they’re you’re working or not today. We’re talking about getting on the hiring managers radar this can be challenging and it’s going to be different in every situation but we want to talk about this in just general terms because often there are ways to get on the radar that either we forget about. We don’t know about or that. We sure whether or not it’s going to be effective and so we don’t try and I think the first step is you gotta try what you know. Hopefully we can build on that today. Today’s episode is actually brought to you by the anatomy of a networking conversation. It’s an e book that Scott Ni- put together to free sort resource for you on job. Seekers RADIO DOT COM. You can download that at your leisure. The challenge with getting on the hiring managers radar is feedback. That I’ve gotten from a lot of job seekers that I coached those ones that are working in ones. That are not that are just trying to get. I don’t WanNa say around recruitment or talent acquisition. But really they WANNA talk to a human being and often. They’re not able to because of all the layers of process that stand between them and the company so many companies now are using automated systems to go through a recruiting process and so it is difficult to get in touch with a human being and we recognize that. Turn the tables just long enough to to think about why they would wanna do that. I can’t really blame them. Having been on both sides of the coin both as a hiring manager as well as a job seeker. The hiring manager needs help anymore. I don’t know. Many companies that have a lot of recruiters are a lot of people that have the bandwidth to be doing a lot of the sourcing. Most the recruiters I know have an enormous number of tickets open for positions that they need to hire people into and it can be daunting so the automated systems that they use help them to find people with the right qualifications at least with the right keywords. So all of the PODCAST THAT. We’ve we’ve already done where we’re talking about how to get into that. All of that still applies. Hopefully we can maintain a sense of empathy for those who are going through all of that processing the ones that are reaching out using these automated systems. We want to help them to find us. So that’s really elite sort of the the perspective we WanNa start with today. Part of this is really reverse engineering. The roles you’re interested in in identifying. Then okay what are some of the challenges that are common in the industry? What are some things that the company has facing is Is there a trend? That’s happening. That’s relevant. Have you been able to navigate that trend in the past that that would be relevant to that hiring team and also where are we in the employment cycle? We go through this with the economy and we see it time and time again where the economy is getting really strong or has been strong for a period of time. Unemployment is low. I’ll give the caveat. That employment is never as low as the numbers that we hear. Say It is. It’s true that unemployment does go through the cycle so the tactics that company us will also change based on the volume of applications. They receive the number of qualified candidates that are currently in the the job seeker pool. What is the competitive environment? Like in terms of being an employer. Do they have to work harder to find someone to fill the job and so they have to sweet deal? Somehow all of these things play into that cycle so be aware of where where we are whenever. You’re looking where we are in that. That employment cycle and many of these hiring managers are easy to identify because most of them at least in my experience or online din and the big question I have from clients is. How do I find the hiring manager? Did you look on linked it? Well there’s one hundred of them great. Got One hundred people. Now that you can network with that you don’t know. Is it that one or that one or that one? But it doesn’t matter because right that Mo- some of them are gonNA respond anyway. Sure and those who do will probably be able to lead you in the right direction the right direction but linked him also offers filters that you can use in that search so you can. You can search for specific words so if you if you’re looking for a position you’re looking for that hiring manager for a position that you’ve been in or that you’re familiar with should be able to figure out what the titles are at least some keywords that you can filter that search and Lincoln is not the only source though of work in industries where there is an industry association which means there are people from a variety of organizations. That do what you do.

00:05:01 – 00:10:01

And whether that’s the industry that your company is in or the industry of your discipline for my own example. The Association for Training and Development Ata as the Association for Training and Development. It covers all industries but it is specific to those of us and the learning and development world. Then you also have the those in For example the medical industry you have the people who are in an industry these associations will depend on what it is you do but they will be able to help you find people to start conversations. Let them know what it is that you’re trying to accomplish to expand your network to expand your contacts within your industry to develop new skills perhaps looking for new opportunities. Whatever that might be work with people in your affinity group that can help you and that really comes down to then. I just identifying that leader once you’ve identified that leader. I think it’s important maybe to put together a profile on them. Not that I’m looking to put together a dossier but I really WANNA see. What are they talking about? Where did they were they coming from? What what sort of things can I find? What I google their name. There’s a lot published anything. There’s a little bit of research that you can do on the front end in order to position. Whatever it is. You’RE GONNA put out there in alignment with what that leader is interested in and we can talk about values. We’ve talked about that in prior podcasts. We can talk about areas of interest that are both professional or personal for these individuals. And it’s not like we’re trying to teach you how to stalk someone this is really about. How do I have a conversation? That is then meaningful to the other person. Once we know who some of the hiring managers may be in an organization whether they have a position open or not isn’t the point these are people who have direct reports and therefore will at some point need to bring someone else on the team. They lose a team member. Whatever you’re already preparing for those conversations and that’s the point is just keeping track keeping tabs on. This leader is really important primarily because if you decide to make a person a mentor or even a thought leader than you probably. WanNa keep in regular contact ’em overtime if you’re connected with them already on Lincoln. You can make comments on the things that they post. You can reply to come as they make on yours or other people’s like showing up at the gym if you keep showing up in these different platforms to simply engage not to show how important you are. Or how knowledgeable you are but just to join the conversation. You’re going to create that sense of trust with these hiring managers. You will get on the radar without having to say. Hey I want you to hire me and really it’s positioning yourself too. So once you understand this hiring manager saying okay what problems do I solve? And if you position yourself as a solution to a problem then you’re going to be seeking problems to solve and you don’t offer the solution until you know there’s a problem right. This is another conversation that we can have with those who will be hiring. What are your pain points? Or what problems are you solving? There’s also the conversation of what problems are you trying to avoid? What do you see as potential for your organization that you are actively trying to improve on before you get there before it’s a problem? I’ve had conversations with people recently certainly from a development side of. How do we become proactive? When what we’re trying to do is solve problems while problem solving is a reactive function. So how do you turn that around to be proactive? Well what is it that you’re trying to accomplish? What outcomes does your organization want in terms of its schools and now we can do things like for example reverse brainstorming. Which is okay. We’re going to approach this. How do we totally screw this up? And you use the worst thing that could have right. And how do we make that worse thing happened? What’s great about this is now you start to often see the humor in it. You’re creating a conversation that most people don’t have that becomes memorable but also it’s how to identify the things that are going to trip you up. It’s a great way to proactively problem solve before problems. Show up and when you become adept at this not only will you have had a more positive conversation with these people who may be hiring. They will see you as a problem solver without having to be reactive and really that applies also to internally if you’re in a company and you’re trying to get on some of the folks that I’m coaching right now our our at a larger organization and these people are starved for time. You know and everybody wants to get on their calendar. And how do you manage that? And how do I make my fifteen minutes more important than somebody right minutes and that competition starts to come in and really Part of this process is putting yourself in a position to give that person regular communication.

00:10:01 – 00:15:05

Just as course of your work and that sometimes doesn’t require getting fifteen minutes on their calendar that could just be having project update right. Here’s the project we’re collaborating on together. Wanted to keep you posted on. What’s going on? I also think about what when we think about values and goals. What are the hot buttons involved? What do we need to be sure that we’re we’re giving positive information about how we are? Achieving around those hot buttons can also be a really helpful conversation. It’s not that you’re solving. Their problem is that you have a mindset of providing solutions. And if you know what they’re put buttons are you can actually lead into that very comfortably. Those regular check ins do more to create credibility than simply having a good answer. The other way to create credibility is to actually go to some of the industry events that the leader or the hiring manager doesn’t just have bandwidth time to go to absolute so now you can be that that sage right the industry sage that is always going to the industry events and bringing the latest things to hiring team once you establish that communication with the hiring manager that you can be an extension of their work. That y’all do the legwork for them they actually would appreciate that. As long as you’re bringing back the value from these activities the other thing to think about is what meetings can you sit in on to gather information A present consistent resource you know I think oh I think of all these meetings. We see on C. Span where there’s a committee meeting and you know the the congressman’s upfront. And there’s like five staff members behind the camera not quite uncanny quality camera but you know not aware that they’re being filmed. Yeah yeah there. There are so many of these that actually happened that we don’t think about in terms of our participation as we’re trying to get on somebody’s radar. We may have restricted bandwidth. We may not have the time to attend all these other things. So that may be a conversation you have with your current leader or boss to try to free up a little bit of time and that that’s going to look different depending on the kind of work that you do. Here’s where at least for me. My ability to communicate my own brand statement my personal branding statement. Okay that needs to align with my company. The brand that. I’m working four when I can talk concisely about the value. I bring as an individual into these conversations. That’s actually going to inform the conversation I have with my boss where I’m asking. Can I have a little extra time to do? X Y and Z activity. Yeah and then you go do. Xyz activity bring back. Bring back the value that then maybe saving them time because now don’t have to go do it or they can rely on you to be a consistent force in the organization to make that kind of thing happened and that’s going to make you more visible to other leaders who then can see you coming under the radar as being somebody. They want to bring on board doing good work. I mean that’s what it is. It’s really just demonstrating to people around you that you do good work so part of this problem that I see with a lot of people is hey. I don’t like to Brag. I don’t like to toot my own horn or whatever Being that they’re hiding right. That’s what it is. They’re really hiding behind in keeping all of their capabilities secret. And if I have some strength inside of me I want other people to know about. Maybe they just haven’t identified that or are willing to embrace what that is right now. You’re reminding me of a quote and I wish I could remember who said it i. Most people are most afraid of success. It’s true the and they don’t realize it. S The channel. I don’t really horn. Tooting Your Own Horn in an appropriate and helpful way is not conceit. You’re not being stuck up by telling people what you bring to the table if anything helping them help you. And this becomes a symbiotic relationship. And isn’t that what we’re trying to do? A bid that it actually helps the manager is the company helps. You helps has got to be able to toot your own horn to some extent. So don’t be afraid to do that. You don’t want to be a clanging cymbal. So that you’re like just constantly that it’s annoying. It’s very annoying. But there’s you absolutely have permission to tell the truth about the things you’re good at and the things you enjoy doing so that you can advocate for your own data’s faction your own happiness so then if you know what brings you satisfaction on the job you know what interests you you know the direction you. WanNa go now. You have another filter to us. Which leaders do you? WanNa get onto their radar. You have now away to focus your efforts in the right directions because the more you do the things you love to do the more energy you get the more passionate you become the more of an expert you appear to other people because they see how you’re tapping into this this is one of those virtuous circles these are ways for you to get involved and be seen as a thought leader or as a good person to have on the ground and people want to be around.

00:15:05 – 00:20:01

They don’t WanNa be around a milk toes. Person Keeps everything why it? It’s just not very exciting. I’d rather be around people that got going on. That are full of energy that understand who they are no what they bring to the table and they have capacity that that’s exciting it demonstrates life well and you don’t have to do that on the job either. You can do volunteer work. You can get out there and do things. Maybe it’s not even involved in your work when people know that you are volunteering your time. That says something about how you feel about your community. Your worldview depending of course on what voluntary work you’re doing or the organization you’re doing for. Here’s another opportunity to expand your network doing things that you really are interested in doing. You may take that a step further and volunteer to do project. Hey I see this thing. I think there’s a project there. I’d like to volunteer to take that on and really you’re demonstrating to a hiring manager. You have that capacity. Sure and that. You are proactive. And you’ve identified a need and you’re ready to address it now. We think about different resources that we can turn to to find these sorts of opportunities. There’s the business journal from your city and every large city in most the smaller cities have a business journal if not called the city. Business like Portland Business Journal Los Angeles Business Journal. There are others like that. You look at the news sources. If they’re making an announcement that something is happening. There’s nothing wrong with contacting someone in that organization. Say Hey I see this happening in the news. I would love to know how I might be able to get involved in that. What volunteering opportunities might you be offering it? It’s not hey I want you to hire me. It’s hey how can I volunteer thing might just hire you? Yeah there’s lots of hiring managers that have lives outside of the job and that might include the American Cancer Society or diabetes. Well we have whatever we have a mutual friend that’s involved in the Alzheimer’s Organization. There are all sorts of different groups out there doing this kind of work that you can now get involved in and meet people expand your network. You can find them on social media whether that’s facebook or linked in or any of the social media platforms out there. I look at it kind of like a circle by that I mean. Hey you know if you’re trying to get on the hiring managers radar there’s the gravitational satellite right around that person and just not close enough to the hiring manager to get sucked into that to get sucked into the vortex but I guess what I’m suggesting is there’s always somebody that’s a little bit closer to that hiring manager than you are and often they. There’s somebody that each leader that I’ve ever met relies on is kind of like they’re sounding board or the go-to person or someone that they can how them to be influenced by because they value that person’s opinion and if you can’t get to the hiring manager one way you get on their radar as maybe through their executive admin or a potential here that you happen to play squash with on Saturday afternoons or something. I don’t know that brings us back to your one of your early ideas of doing the search on linked to find the Harry Manager. Look at the peers. Look at the other people. Who are the various people on that level that you might be able to connect with just to get some information about the company? What does it like to work there? What what are your current strategies. I mean I’m just interested in the industry. Whatever that looks like because that’s going to tie tie you right back into where you need to be. There’s more than one door into the organization and it’s either through the hiring manager. The peers could be somebody in sales or somebody in finance that you end up bumping into just kind of serendipitous at a weekend event maybe a wine tasting or crawl or some sort of faith organization. That happens to go to your church. Sure all of the the the potential conversations somebody in the grocery line. It’s not that you should be talking about your employment situation in every conversation you have keep that in. Mind that any conversation. You have could go there so that if you have your personal branding statement written out in practice that you can jump into that opportunity as soon as it presents itself because you never know where when it’s going to happen it may be just a stepping stone. We do want to encourage you to look for any opportunity. All Opportunities Don’t feel like you’ve exhausted the mall because you probably don’t restrict yourself keep an open mind because you’ll be surprised in how many opportunities actually come up if you’re just ready for them. Keep your eyes and ears open at all times. Well that does it for this episode of Job Seekers Radio You can get all the show notes and resources and job seekers radio DOT COM FORWARD SLASH. Zero seven seven. We want to remind you that we do have the book. Called Anatomy of networking conversation. Is there it has companion audio? Avail yourself of it. It’s totally free. And it’s one of the best ways to get on.

00:20:01 – 00:20:45

The radar of hiring manager is to do your network to your networking excellent in a somewhat pragmatic direct. Way If that works for you. But getting on their radar it could involve the networking piece and that is one of the resources we have. It’s totally free. Our gift to you. Thank you for joining us for this episode of Job. Seekers Radio we really do appreciate your investment of time and your attention head on over to I tunes and subscribe to get future episodes. While you’re there. Please leave us a rate and review. We really do appreciate that. And we. We want your feedback. You can also give us feedback or ask US questions on job seekers radio DOT COM and according to Mahatma Gandhi. Be The change. You want to see the world. I’m Scott I’m Andrew. Thanks for being with US aggregrate day.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now

Show Notes

When the job market is tight, multiple offers for employment is fairly common. How do you work the logistics when you already accepted one and started work?

Scott and Andrew discuss the process for navigating the delicate discussion in this Episode of Job Seekers Radio..

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Steps to consider during your decision process.
• Multiple offer handling ideas.
• Components to consider when making your decision.
• Personal inventory of values.
• Communication and honesty in conversations.
• Positioning and documenting on LinkedIn and resume.

Resources (including affiliate links)

What Color is Your Parachute010 Interviewing with Confidence  

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View TranscriptLooking to jobseekers radio I’m Andrew this is the podcast dedicated to providing meaningful support whether you’re working or not we’re coming to you live well not really like recorded in a beautiful which is a suburb of the city of rose city Portland job seekers radio were talking about the crazy time job market it is it kosher to leave a job after you just got one I will give you a qualified yes to keep in mind it if you have taken a job and you’re fairly young in if you haven’t been there very long can you get another offer it’s OK to consider taking it most companies that I have had experience with our So while it may not be what would choose while it may not be what they would have liked understand the value of you taking a better position for taking advantage of a better opportunity whenever there’s people involved he might go out the window organization could be mature but there may be a person in it so let’s just be clear we need to eat dinner by another better offer in front of you or are you the one is being mature or immature right is it a company being mature or immature as it being your boss you hit the nail on the head it’s a understanding whether or not this is the right opportunity if you do get the other offer is your opportunity to take a look at both jobs the one you just started everything we did the job is Direct course to a higher position and it may be that it’s a smaller company with room to grow or larger company with greater security the details of that second opportunity I would say move slowly be very careful because there’s no way to know if in fact it is a better job you may not be able to go back to it I take the new job is going to be appear on the surface to be but it could be that you just had a really persuasive persuasive hiring manager that as we say in the in the interview Go to game you have your players got Verizon because they want to look at it for you to work in the arena we talk about those who eat what are the reasons why it’s very important that as you take that first job trying to find out what happens behind yes the second job is the one you really wanted in the first place and it’s perfect for you if you don’t take a second job are you gonna be happy and the first not having gone for it It’s really important that you take into consideration all the things on both sides of the fence bit interesting firing really want to accomplish in your career it could be the two offers come up side-by-side and I have never seen that before there’s always been there in someway shape or form a connection to hire leadership principles that I feel like go that way is the right way to go it’s going to depend on the job if you are working is the kind of work are you don’t have much interaction with with your coworkers and that the networking with in the company really doesn’t happen that much there’s not that much interaction that it may be easier to stick with it the hardest part is win They really are is real and it’s going to set you up for more you just want the money and the ability OK just be honest about it if you’re not the one that’s motivated by one of the many can bring it you are motivated by what people do in terms of treatment well if there’s a part of your decision decision right there tonight to type job market if your position is really marketable it’s in the van whether or not the organization is aligned with that and if you don’t have your values there’s plenty of resources Down over many generations some people think about personality the color of your parachute or just curse of the others both have their value I would in deciding which job I take but it’s really interesting information if you know that the style preference or the personality of the person that you would be working for is going to be a good match to you you have to get into some of the detail near the surface and that person doesn’t always work out easily but once you start looking at the person demonstrate what is it motivates you Got the job or the opportunity reputation management process the one that I want to work or leave the one that I have without burning a bridge actually engaging in having honest conversations with you to the dance is a good idea I didn’t expect it to come in will you might’ve expected it but it came looks really good I’m not sure I can bring it down and dad just being honest about it we we were talking before we started recording about the idea that I got this other offer and what was it that you were told when you have a second offer come in they told me do you have any boxes If your attitude is one that you are doing your level best to make it right by the parties that you want both of them to have a good experience so what does the future look like let’s say you made that decision you kind of smooth over the bridges as best you can and now you’re moving to the new one I think the did the reputation of profile and your resume what are you tell people at a background check and how do you handle all of those things comes in the play I will always come back to be honest just be honest people understand these things happen and what I told my kids was there is no truth that I cannot handle did you tell me the truth I will look This job I want you to succeed that’s why I’m being honest with me gets honesty back be honest with both parties let them know what’s going on putting together your resume through that process application on your side to include in six months if you got continuous employment otherwise I am and if people were to ask what happen in two months so I would do the same I just make sure your resume in early dinner pretty much lined up so that you’re not miss leading anybody through this process All the show notes and resources get jobseekers radio.com/032 everybody for joining us for this episode of jobseekers radio your investment of time and attention subscribe to get the future episode is the snow how to make this podcast questions at all please ask we like to be able to work podcast answering the questions we do that we try not to miss anything someone else is on your mind and would be happy to respond until next time. Don’t close open doors and always look for ways to make positive contributions.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

It’s not uncommon in your career that you consider quitting your job. Scott and Andrew discuss ideas on how you can do so with consideration. 

Don’t miss these Topics:

• Pros and Cons or Make A Diagnosis
• Evaluating your motivation
• Identifying your support mechanisms
• Making decisions and weighing the possible outcomes
• Planning your escape to something better
• Managing your current situation
• Maintaining your reputation through a transition
• Tactics to develop understanding of your situation
• Coping with feelings and emotions you are experiencing 

CLICK HERE to Rate and Review on iTunes Raw and Unedited Transcript View TranscriptToday we help you decide when is it time to quit your job that is it the question. that comes out to everyone at some point in their career at multiple points. certainly do the response changes based on creating this podcast were in a really tight labor market where people can leave have an extra cake. really a diagnosis that I think we are people talking about the problem with doing a balancing act on this. Is that what is on one side versus another side. the priorities are Those things is changing and it’s a moving target and got a preacher pros and cons. generally recommend is for people to diagnose the issue so if there’s a diagnosis there are symptoms. and we’re gonna talk about that in just a minute you have to decide when you get to this point to do some self reflection. I think we talked about that a lot in our podcast regardless of what comes in it’s always good to take a step back OK and ask yourself the question. what are you gonna quit your job. when you can’t write what does that look like. people don’t feel like they can’t they don’t have permission or loyalty or whatever. real or not imagine, either way I talk to the motivation and Family is but it’s not all on you. have that conversation to determine when you really can’t because you may have support but you don’t have them on the other side those who don’t have a family to support think I’ll like it I could leave anytime it’s really important to try and figure that out it’s funny you say it that way because as you were talking all I could think of it as convenient excuses there’s always a convenient excuse that allows me to rationalize the decision one way or another and so we need to be honest with ourselves that were rationalizing it might be or it could potential he be different than we think that’s a really good point and the fact of rational at the idea that Rasche was Because I’m going to make the choice and I just wanna feel better about it you know what you’re doing if you rationalize it and then I’m going to wait to make that decision because I know I’m just rationalizing when I think I want to know what to do with it either way you are making responsible choices know what you’re doing understand that this is going to be part of the equation and it’s OK will the intention of this podcast episode is really to snap people out of what might be a pseudo-reality that you might be thinking oh everything’s great it’s Grant or I can’t leave the colors or fill in the blank with whatever thing you think is preventing you from doing something we talked about briefly before we came on here is actually going through all of these to make your situation ideal for you and the company but you just feel like I’m at the end of my rope and I think it’s really important It’s not just people that they care about your safety your you’re fine if you have truly tried everything you can to make the situation better and it’s just not going to get better I think that’s a really good indicator that it’s time to start looking it really depends on the organization is it the organization really is in a position to be at in employer of choice is to differ could be two different things when they could say yes I know I’m in a poor choice and I’m gonna use it to my advantage Laura Colby station for your benefit if you don’t want to stay fine right but that’s exactly right I have personal experience with organizations that say they are better than everybody else and they have a laundry list of reasons why they’re better Good trajectory with this organization and if you can just get through this situation current position that you’re in to get to where you’re going to buy all means keep trying but hopefully you have a proposed trajectory is it who are helping you get there if you see the trajectory by yourself and no one is supporting you or that you’re actually going to make it start looking for that position at other companies similar companies who are needed it really depends two on the size of the organization is is you get organizations there’s more quarters of the organization would be happy to have you That’s something else that I hadn’t really thought of until you mentioned it corners of the organization if you aren’t the type to connect quickly with people in your company and really be outgoing and make friends in other departments whatever that looks like that may be kind of daunting very introverted be overwhelming it so that’s going to be something where you have to strategically build close relationships with a few individuals who can help you get past that because I’ve seen people will actually move up in their careers they expected but because they actually have the ability to move up in the same company basically keeping their reputation alive and getting more this is a corollary to what we talked about before where you could have Anybody is Asian but they might have opportunities to move laterally leave it inside the organization I don’t have to train you I don’t have to ship that person to another and you might be end up being happier in that new bucket it happen when you find yourself facing the situations maybe you have a new boss or maybe you are a boss but have been given a new team the only caveat with thinking about the new job when those kind of changes happen is I generally tell people give it time let’s see if in fact that new boss or the new team isn’t a really good fit I think about a situation that I had where we had a new general manager come in I was director of sales and marketing and this new But what was really interesting with him once we got to know her a little bit and we were in a secret place we ended up being the Titus team find a new team don’t give up too quickly make sure that this is an opportunity for you to notice things when you get a re-organization or nearby just kind of understand why this is something I can make sure that you have open dialogue and people in your organization so that you are quiet in the corner in conveniently let go because you didn’t say anything there’s a lot of talk about change management you when you’re going to be presenting a change In the wise so that they can build awareness looks like quite the change is happening eventually you can get it for me for them but if your company is it giving that information to you you can manage your own change my asking the questions why is this change happening what are the risks of not changing what am I to expect to get out of this and again if they say oh well you got a job that’s all you should be grateful for here is an element that gives you permission to start looking because again if they’re not interested in caring about you there’s probably a company out there who does well in was recognize your Spidey sense right there might be something tingling and I don’t mean it that way Scott here’s the thing when something like that happens over and over again that’s a powder if it happens just one Do we feel underappreciated where these feelings coming from and why physical aspect I know people who maybe they deal with the really light weight depression but they just can’t get out of it right now because you’re in a bad situation at work when she was when she was getting overwhelmed and so we all know those of us who were close with her in a great great group of people in the moment and it wasn’t something that she would would complain about it just happened but there are other biological symptoms of a bigger issue and it’s important to know Companies benefit program because it might be something else you get professional help we don’t we don’t play psychologist on the Internet do I like what you know about being tired at the end of every day is a grind and you’re not the type to live in a grind them to contemplate the new job is probably a healthy choice would be something that if you feel like it’s you and I’m having a hard time dealing with it and I’ll also mention that if you are seeking Thera-P because of job-related stress that’s actually a workers comp situation when I was dealing with an employee relations People been mentioned to us that they were fun to deal with the stress at work and that that is something that the company will cover it and take it vantage of that and I could also when you involve neck and also help make things better within your department know a lot of us they go if I go to anybody in HR then they’re just going to get rid of me because I’ve become a liability I’ve actually seen it happen not the individual and the HR director came in and helped boss to improve while that may not be considered the norm it is out there going to an HP or some other benefit I think it’s a really good idea what maybe it’s not you so we need to determine through a diagnosis process Why do I feel this person is now causing me to stress question but if you can pinpoint it was something that happened at work that looks like that will give you an idea of what is really happening we do want to mention that if you decided you done the diagnosis and you decided yes it’s time to move efforts to find something you or to find out which companies you’re targeting or something because that’s going to start focusing your mind in the direction of improvement you’re going to start feeling better because we’ve been there with Bruce Lee believe he looking for something To understand that people are always looking for the next best deal but if that’s not in your DNA and you don’t feel comfortable with that remember them looking for other opportunities is it always about looking for a new job he could be looking for new skills that will make your current job better for you for other opportunities that knows more than you make things better for you in the moment don’t let that stop you from networking the other part of that maybe you are the one with the higher skill set and tan and that’s also going to make you feel better your transition planning when you decide that you want to leave an organization should be written down Write down a plan maybe even come up with some networking how many people do you want to go and if you have the time to do it if it happened at a time is convenient you don’t have to be unemployed to attend there are a number of them that if you are willing to actually get involved with the job we have friends that have specifically to answer questions and how people who are looking for work will have questions about the interview process and talk to somebody other than you and you can answer these questions coming back today Make sure the beds are in all your effort and then it’s easier when you’re unemployed because you have the flexibility generally I try to go at least once a week organization is large enough and you can start doing some informational interviewing inside the company or have a different table it doesn’t have to be something monumental sitting on the right San Jose the table I’m gonna go sit on the left-hand side if you have someone in your life that you can brainstorm with you or whatever that looks like I can help you break through your own barriers so ji I’ve been working on this I can’t think of anything you may be the time that the speaker is it for this episode of jobseekers radio in resources online at jobseekers radio.com/031 thank you all for joining us for this episode of the time and your attention is really appreciated iTunes and subscribed to get future episodes while you’re there please provide a rate and review that gives us valuable feedback to make this a better resource for you and if you have any questions please provide those as well we do answer questions in various podcast give us more to work with let us know what’s on your mind until next time keep dreaming not a better day

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

Many times in your life you might have taken jobs for different reasons. Occasionally, you will take a job that is just there for the money when you just have to have source of income. 

Scott and Andrew discuss the Art of Underemployment with a focus on Survival Jobs.

Don’t miss these Topics:

• What is a survival job.
• What kind of stepping stone is this – and be honest.
• How much of the truth you might share with employers
• How to find and choose the right survival job
• Identifying remote work alternatives
• Value of networking to find survival jobs
• The role of motivation in your decisions to take work
• How to look at the idea of survival job

Resources (including affiliate links)

FlexJobs
Indeed
CareerBuilder
Monster
Craigslist
NextDoor
Facebook 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View TranscriptWe’re talking about how to leverage and under employed situation to your advantage we always start these kinds of conversations talking about motivation what is motivating you there are some easy ones I’ve been unemployed for a period of time and I really don’t have any savings left I need to bring some money and clearly you got to get a job and you don’t feel like you’re in your mind so having that income coming in situation or not I think is worth at least considering if you might be running Experience went long after my unemployment benefits ran out and I was living with family had been looking for that kind of work that I absolutely love doing it and I couldn’t find anything and finally got to take the next job became the next job I also think that I need a different kind of knowing that I had but if you did give me some clarity as I was moving forward I had to find something in fortunately this was an application I put in before that conversation happened but I think it impacted the way I interviewed for that job and you made a positive difference taking all kinds of different jobs I’ve been in situations where I needed and I took whatever came on Do you want to at least get in the ballpark having a clear Destiination to say OK yeah I know the Destiination is over there but this shirt and so even though that was identified as a survivor job for me I did not get all the prior thinking of survival but it turns out to be something exactly many times these can open doors of things you would never considered otherwise and I’ve known people who actually started a career through a similar situation where they just took a job to take the job and they liked it so well he grew into it into a career a lot of times job is really just I got to survive the holidays right got to survive this thing that’s coming up I remember when I was a kid my mom took a job back in the days when people could live on one income And so does your survival jobs in the sense that you’re surviving and getting what you want not just kinds of things we come back to the question of motivation it it’s important I think to set it up knowing what is motivating you to do this if it’s something that you really don’t need that I would be great but then when the stakes are high need to be a little more careful about talking a lot about the podcast about having choices so let’s not overlook the fact that sometimes people don’t have a choice they have to get something right but if you do have a choice then you can pick something up even though you’ve identified so you could say all right I need It’s a choice that you’re making going in the right direction especially in those times where you don’t feel you have a choice you have to get something the more decisions you can make in the directions you’re going or the companies that you’re applying to more it feels like a positive so for example when I was unemployed for long. One of the boys to get into a nursery and a part-time job at a local nursery because I really enjoy as in the plants I would’ve been happy to get involved in the school for a while I thought it was gonna be another story no it it’s doing something that I enjoy doing but I haven’t considered it for a career But that was a survival situation that wasn’t what I wanted my career to be a steppingstone to the next thing what you’re really saying is we should be going to some Destiination we want to go on what is it take a positive approach to it so we can still perform and get paid because I know I went to the survival job and I got to the point where it’s like I hated going there and I’m sure it was affecting my mind honest with yourself but you still perform in a positive way that’s a really good point and that’s also true if your full-time job that just doesn’t pay well I talk to people who ask what do I do do I take the job doesn’t pay well and just stick with it whatever They don’t pay well and they probably would expect you if you have already on your resume something where you were paid well and they probably would expect you to find something better if they hire you that’s going to be a given and and that is one of the reasons why a lot of people don’t get hired when they’ve had better position because the company somewhere else on the organization doing a hiring fair wage and if you have an opportunity don’t get paid as well I don’t have any calls in telling people go ahead and keep looking for the right job but remember the pay is only the money issue money in and of it’s self is rarely a strong motivator is what money represents that triggers motivation so is it the security that flexibility You need to make sure that you’re doing it for the right reasons pay by the biggest reason why people but really low-key very strong motivator for people to leave my job so if you take a full-time job make it clear that your life outside your work is still going to be a priority boundaries and so as you’re going to the networking events of the other things that you’re doing to look for other work that is an expectation that you have the flexibility to do things in your personal life without that Hirving your reputation on the Neutra you can do that I have to give them the 411 right on everything you’re doing as long as you’re performing for them right you say hey this is my boundary and I don’t expect you to go into that space I never agree or recommend to people I go to a networking networking group on a regular basis that is something that we do a professional activity that’s right everybody should be expected to do it God is really trying to find the right that’s gonna work for you so you can’t do that kind of activity in the networking in the interviewing and in that it isn’t going to become an obstacle for you to execute on your job search so many times I had a client that I was working when he said oh well this new job that I’m 70 miles away and I said what are you absolutely 100% committed to Syd job oh no I just need a job I just need something early planning to drive For a job that he did not want that you’re setting yourself up for a really rough experience I would not recommend and I have had jobs that I really enjoy doing it by the end of it probably a good idea to identify some deal breakers are the types of survival jobs you’re willing to take a really good point because we talk so often about making a list of all the things that you want to have in your next job making a list of dealbreaker because that’s going to keep your sense of clarity one in the presumption is you’re going to be taking a little bit less money for that job it’s not always the case but if it was the perfect job you would be calling the pay is going to be less that means you can have more non-negotiables in terms of location Do you need to take a day off to do an interview flexibility to do that right and if the survival job is working remotely that really makes it easy for a lot of jobs out there that don’t pay a great salary that they offer commission whether that’s taking reservations or doing whatever and they said you up at home I don’t know very many people actually made a career I don’t know anybody who stayed in those jobs long-term but that can be a really good survival job that gives you the opportunity to do the things that you need to do at home or close to home with you or anything else and still be productive because whatever it is you’re integrity is the one thing that you don’t want to damage they know that you’re probably going to be looking for something that’s going to set you up for a better success than what they are offering Scott that I seen people that were looking for the dream job and along the way up on something that’s like your something that I could you share that I could do that using that phrase but it’s not something you desire to do opportunities I’ve seen more people is like hey I don’t have anything full time but I got this contract gig I can give you maybe a third time and so there’s so many benefits to be out in opportunities are going to come into your heart anybody listening to this podcast please network get out there and talk to people really kept me going was participating in groups but also in going to a networking events when I was unemployed for long. My situation and people who are employed only to talk to other people who are seeking jobs and I think that’s great with people and the differences are always enough to keep things interesting but you can relate to one another if you’re not going to the people who are employed your cell yourself short because those of the people who are probably going to help you get your next job and as they know they’re going to be talking to the right people my case it would be going to their meetings or the association groups these are people that most of them are working So it’s really important to be with like-minded people not just those who are looking for word to people or know how to do the work you want to be with you are scared to go to a meeting where they don’t feel like there’s always it’s OK to be the one with the least amount of experience shows an interest in people I’ve been through all of those different for different jobs I mean the first time I was unemployed was in 2001 and that was after in the market I had so I just went from one Pick up a check and it was in my neighborhood people peoples homes pick up the check and I actually enjoy doing for other jobs like this contract work we mentioned before so many people don’t want to do it because it You’re probably do you have but at least you got catastrophic coverage so many times that can get you the full-time benefited position talking retail and delivering packages for the holidays we don’t want to discriminator or highlight any one of those because they’re those actually offered benefits for part-time people find a part-time job with a food service or what have you where I can work part time and get the benefits After that but I know the larger parcel companies generally do at least one of them I know but that’s a really good filter to use it if your truly desperate for a job that may not come into play but when you after or maybe you just look out your window and the guy in the brown truck every job has its challenges and every job has its benefits if we look at the survival jobs as there’s got to be something good in it and if you can’t find anything good about it so you can find me And I know it’s been around for a while but he never gave it much thought this is the website online postings it’s an aggregator there career builders a monster I’m more inclined to people towards indeed because I have to be at trans parent is it is a paid service have to pay it because I actually have a person that takes a look at these requisitions in it or ask with the employer to say is this remote work Remote position that you can do on the website a lot of people don’t know about a lot of people to know about it but I am always reminded another one and I don’t know probably came up to me as you were speaking is next-door next-door is a new social media platform Neighborhood are all the time saying hey can I get a pay somebody 20 bucks an hour to come pick them up did we talk about it all the time if you’re looking for you have a good feeling about maybe their marketing is good and see what they might have whatever catches your interest if it’s something that you can explore I’m not opposed actually walking into a place people to just look at a map A coffee shop somebody I know who is been retired now for a couple years and she had a chance to take a window and door company I don’t remember now how she got connected with him but she now works part time that she believes in her neighborhood Around people improving your communication skills if I go to my association website and start looking for smaller jobs association really good so whatever it is please if you’re out there and you’re taking a survival and don’t feel guilty if the neck Remember that the company who knows you have a chance to do better somewhere else we do appreciate your time and attention to hear that we share with you today you can access the show notes online it jobseekers radio.com/030 thanks everybody for joining us for this episode of job of time and your attention is truly appreciated if you have any questions that pop up that may not come up his questions and we can answer them Open your mind

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW

Show Notes

You the listener takes over the podcast. This is our 2nd episode where we take and answer your specific questions. 

Don’t miss these Topics:

• I’m a college senior, how can I find my passion and where do I begin?
• How do you handle privacy for job search online?
• Is it cool to apply to a job that I don’t want just to get the interview practice?
• I have a boss that made promises for advancement but won’t pull the trigger, what should I do?

Resources (including affiliate links)

What Color is Your Parachute 

iTunes: Rate and Review Raw and Unedited Transcript View Transcript

Today or jobseekers radio we answer your questions. We really enjoyed getting questions from you we feel like were engaging with you in ways that we can. Just buy broadcasting as you are listening to our podcast and you are going to the job seekers radio.com to find out more or to leave feedback. We want you to ask more questions because this is probably the favorite activity that we have and it gives you an opportunity to get to be personal. Or selfish selfish selfish or what is selfish if you want your questionnaire. Have a question it’s likely somebody else so you’re helping someone else so it’s not totally selfish there’s a little bit of altruism. That brings us to our first question for my college senior how can I find my passion and where do I begin. There are on whole bunch of responses that you will get from that question many of them are true. But they feel because you hear them so often they’ll be a little cliché, where I start without us what do you enjoy doing what dreams you energy, that you enjoy or how we want to describe what did the things that get you fired up. I guess where I would start that conversation with someone is to get them to understand that you probably have more than one passion don’t limit yourself to just one. Open your mind to anything that brings your enjoyment because that’s only the first step of a longer conversation or a longer journey in finding what you enjoy doing. that will earn you a living so sometimes that’s not Just one off. I hear this question what’s my passion I would encourage you to actually look up the textbook definition of what passionate want to change that word usage or use a different word to describe it. I’m hearing most of the time is what it might go down or what would I be good at doing. I would suggest at a college senior should probably go through some assessments will that be a Myers-Briggs or some of the other assessment like StrengthsFinder or StandOut. Excellent point and not many of these fuck about the break talk about style preferences but also each one of those is going to be measuring something a little bit different.  And so if you take several of them I wouldn’t go with too many of the free online assessments because they generally don’t go deep enough. But you may not have a budget to actually pay someone to take you through the professional assessment so that certainly understand. For aptitude test or did the testing that they do to try and help place you were in vocational training that sort of thing can be really helpful and they are state subsidized so you don’t have to pay for them to stay covers the cost in terms of other resources that I would suggest at a college senior lean into that would be the crew center at university the alumni network that you have access to to help you understand what other people who maybe have your same interest actually did with their degree so that you have a bridge between College Inn and workforce the other thing I would recommend and I really got a lot of value out of this was reading what color is your parachute and this is an a lifelong book in and sad to hear of the death of the author died a couple years ago but they’re continuing on Frankie build a legacy through that book that helped millions of people again that’s a stylus preference based concept that he developed and it’s really quite helpful I remember when I read No they’re going to be other things when you think about that the tasks that you had maybe was a research project that you did that you really enjoy doing or on the other side of it the way you deliver it to the outcomes of that research that’s the part that you really enjoyed that will give you some insight as to the kind of work it may be really good for you to pursue because you arty know you enjoy doing it and I don’t want to under estimate the power of that sense of passion I totally agree with you Andrew that maybe we use a different word and the job search arena because finding your passion has sort of become a cliché but there still value to that approach so don’t not think about what you’re passionate about and don’t limit yourself allow whatever brings you enjoyment to come into your conversation about what you want in a career that brings us to our next question how do you handle privacy for job search online Already employed somewhere and I don’t want nobody knowing about it that I need to be careful what I shared online in that perspective on the other side there’s a lot of nefarious people on the Internet that you want to protect yourself from I would caution you and sharing any personally identifiable information maybe even in this is why I encourage people to also eliminate the month of service in your jobs so when you’re at your experience section C on LinkedIn you’re not saying hey I went for January 2014 to February 2016 in this job that’s giving somebody with the ferry is at 10 the exact timeline if your employment there are a number of things that you can do I don’t think we can go into a lot of detail about how to protect your privacy here there are a number of resources that get her out there and LinkedIn if you do a search for the articles that are published there you can get a lot of information about this but generally speaking when I am thinking Are looking for work go to this website and I can help you I would ensure that that is an actual company website I never clicked on a link that is in so I I checked out the other thing is if it there if it looks like it’s coming from a company that I am interested in I go to the company website to do a search for that position before I respond to the email again you want to be really careful about that the other thing is there’s a lot about me that’s already out there online so the chances of being truly private are pretty low anymore but their somethings that I simply will not share with other people connections to family members or other people that that are very close to me I don’t generally share information about them certainly not my children or others that may be put in a vulnerable situation but also things I never get that out except in an official job application if someone asked me for that I will tell them that that is available though I will make that available when I apply use your best judgment I think it’s the main answer there is a best practices for your own safety I would suggest if you’re going to be logging into different sites for the job search that you use an email and a password not login with Facebook or login with some answers lewdly because those services it now been known to be Bonable yes the next thing I would suggest is if any of these platforms have two factor authentication that you use those two factor of medications on all the platforms that you’re logging into it so there’s I don’t know how many I’m teen platforms are used a login with Facebook because it make it easy but now they have access to all my information I don’t do that anymore I have to go into to their instructions and do it step-by-step because it’s not easy there’s a reason why it’s not easy they don’t want to lose those connections because they’re making money off of it in many cases they will do a retard what happened and not all of these websites I would say even most of them don’t have bad intentions involved but the fact is they are trying to make money and they are using me of my information to do so I can except it for what it is but I still need to protect myself so be mindful of how much information you’re sharing what kind of information you’re sharing if you were the type that you bury your soul on Facebook then I would never ever use Facebook to login or to create an account with another website you are opening yourself up to trouble that brings us to our next question is it cool to apply to a job I don’t mind but definitely could do I would generally say no and it’s not because you shouldn’t practice yes you should but you want to be transparent if you’re going into an interview if you don’t really want it and you have a good interview if you’re if you don’t intend to take it you’ve just wasted that person’s time it would make me feel that you’re not ethically on the same plane and I I just really don’t think that’s a good idea however if you see an opportunity to have a conversation with the hiring manager of the recruiter who ever does is performing the interview I don’t think there’s anything wrong with saying I don’t know that I am really interested in this position but there are things that I see that that I do find it interesting could I come in and have an informational interview about your company now you’re resetting setting the expectations so they know that you have a modicum Yes come in for an interview information interview because they may take the approach they want to talk you into it and now there’s a benefit for both sides the motivation for this question really would determine how I answer it OK and so if the motivation is all I have to apply for this because… I want to get my employment or… I want to feel like I’m doing something or or whatever and then I would say no I don’t think that’s a valuable activity however if you just want interview practice I would say yes by all means I would be cautious of my mindset when I go to that interview that I don’t want it so it’s going to impact my performance on the interview I would take the flipside of that I would say yes go on the interview but treat it like it’s the Super Bowl like to eat there’s no job you ever wanted except this one because if I treat the one I don’t want that way how am I going to perform when I get the one I really want short short I have to treat every interview like it’s the most important thing in the world and that Remember to that these people know others and so if you’re putting out there that oh yeah I want this job in Bend no I actually don’t that also is going to make that the rounds well anyway I was gone I actually believe everything I read on the Internet here’s the thing is that you could apply for that job and you get the interview and you get there and it’s not anything that they are very true if I should just simply answer this I would take that apply for that job to get the interview so you can get the practice but just treat it like it’s for real and I would also say yes but be genuine that brings us to our next question Scott which is I have a boss that made promises for advancement but won’t pull the trigger what should I do great question has a whole bunch of caveats involved it really is going to depend on In most cases most companies they approach this as this is business they are looking out for the company’s future not for the future of the individual to make the company’s future so I know that sounds pretty harsh in a lot of companies make a great deal of effort to say oh no we actually do care about you but again just by their actions not by the words I’ve been a message ration I am sure Andrew has been in that situation where this is normal so remember you can be honest about it but your yourself you will in what let’s be clear that each situation is totally different and if you look at this situation so wherever this question is coming from I would have some questions back how long of you been in the room when did they make the promise what did they really promise you right how did they make the parade and there’s a lot of questions that remain an answer that you maybe Like that the next step of the process is to then have a conversation with your boss not just about the advancement but what does that look like in terms of the skills that you need the experience that they are expecting you to have before you move up what does that look like and then set a time frame on it you can go online to find out about what a smart goal is exactly how to set that up the first step of that is to make sure it’s a specific goal so if you are looking to move up to the next level and in my company we go from a specialist to a senior specialist and what does it look like what is it that the differences between what a specialist does senior specialist and that’s also true of the other type of user that it Vance sure that mature in that investiture and it is a leadership team in identifying those drinks and whatever that title looks like the idea is identify what those differences look like Or hate you’re already doing the job of a senior versus a regular I just don’t feel like paying you for it when is it what is the motivation of the boss or the manager and you don’t maybe those conversation shouldn’t be about hate remember what you promised me every conversation you’re having a starting that way about making demeaning your boss for your own benefit but this also may be a situation where your boss doesn’t realize just how much you’re doing and of the higher level of these are good questions to bring to your boss they are it’s a really good conversation to have but once you put this into a smart girl and now your boss has very little to say oh no we can’t do that now they may still say no it may be that for budgetary reasons it can’t happen right now it may be that they are hit or other exigencies within the company that you know there are other things happening in life happens You’re performing well on your boss makes a promise is a promise until the next fiscal year budget for that right now there’s some other things that are outside your bosses control that they don’t wanna let you know about because I don’t want you to feel bad about it again that’s the time when you have a conversation with the boss about what’s going on remember that the behavior put out comes back to you so if you are open with your boss the chances are better that your boss will be more open to you no guarantees there but generally speaking that’s what ends up happening if you communicate you’re interested in staying with the company but did you need more your boss has a certain amount of responsibility to respond appropriately and positively to that information so be sure that you’re communicating your needs in an appropriate and responsible way it takes practice let me know if you’re if you haven’t had those conversations with the boss before To respond to your questions directly and then will also have some links in our show notes to resources that are available to you some of them may be the podcast.

Anatomy of a Networking Conversation Get your Free E-Book and Companion Audio Now Email DOWNLOAD NOW