There is a well known epidemic of loneliness in the world, and the increasing levels of change are exacerbating the challenge.

I'd argue there are three things needed for wellness: Physical health, Mental health, and Social health.

We were happy to be joined by Janine Kutliroff, CEO of Brya, a company focused on helping people build healthy and active in-person social connections.

Janine's comments will resonate to almost everyone - I hope you enjoy.

The Goddess is Back! Jim and Sam have a good discussion on the personal accountability of being social, how we build our own communities, and have a small battle royale on the value of in-person vs. online social groups.

In the journey of our careers and social lives, the pursuit of a "seat at the table" has become a familiar phrase, symbolizing recognition, validation, and influence. However, like so many age-old metaphors, rarely do we take the time to look beyond their assumed surface-level meaning. Many still work tirelessly in hopes of earning a place here, without fully understanding exactly what it is they’re after, or what it may require to get there. 

In episode 124 of "Welcome to Jim's: Take Happy Week," Jim delves into the concept of gentle leadership, initially expressing skepticism towards the latest leadership trend. However, the episode explores the relevance of gentle leadership in today's discourse on leadership and personal development, emphasizing its focus on empathy, kindness, and collaboration. The host discusses the origins of gentle leadership, drawing parallels with the concept of gentle parenting, which gained popularity years ago.

While acknowledging the benefits of fostering psychological safety and creating environments where individuals can thrive, there are potential drawbacks. Excessive focus on empathy can lead to entitlement and an inability to cope with life's challenges. Furthermore, the episode emphasizes the importance of setting and maintaining high standards, challenging individuals to meet expectations while providing support and guidance.

Ultimately, Jim encourages a nuanced approach to leadership, incorporating elements of civility, respect, and accountability. They stress the necessity of balancing empathy with discipline and holding individuals accountable for their actions. Despite initial reservations, the episode concludes with an affirmation of the value of gentle leadership when understood and applied effectively.

Welcome to 2024. We are going to kick it off with lots of isms. 

Shedding the collective dumpster fire of 2023, much of what I’ve been hearing is that people are looking to start anew in 2024. Again. Just like last year. And the year before. I’m seeing a recurring theme. 

The theme … and this is something I’ve been dealing with … is that there seems to be a cynicism infiltrating much of the conversation style over the past six months to a year. 

On a recent run (a Dopey run, more on that in the show) - I was reminded that much of our perspective is impacted by the experiences around us. But our perspective needs to be protected at all times - it’s what makes us unique - and while it should evolve, I would argue a healthy perspective is one that embraces optimism and hope. It’s what drives us to accomplish and try more. 

A lyric from Vinegar Hill by Black ‘47 stuck with me on the run: “When faith is gone, all hope is lost.” And we have lost faith. I’m not making a religious stance - although you can take it that way. But we have lost faith beyond that standard view. We have lost faith in our institutions. Our educational system. Our neighbors and what we believe is true. And, we have lost faith in ourselves.

We don’t have all the answers - and that’s OK. But as the world continues to evolve around us - our belief system - our faith in ourselves and our ability to get shit done - is what’s going to drive us out of whatever dark place cynicism takes us. 

Skepticism is good - I encourage it. It shows we think. But skepticism evolves to cynicism too easily, and we must be aware that without faith in ourselves and others; without hope that things will be better, without a recognition that we are capable of writing our script - we are going to be spending our days in a negative tornado of cynicism. 

It can start small - more on the show about how a short run changes my entire thinking paradigm - but it’s necessary if we are going to be successful in 2024. 

Enjoy the week!

Today the topic is time – how we think about it, frame it and manage it. 

Productivity appears to be the name of the game today, which becomes an incredibly frustrating aspect to focus on. We never feel productive enough, the end of our work time seems so far in the future, and our fleeting day to day never really meets our expectations to catch up to our long term goals and priorities. 

But when we think about a 30 year (or 20, 15, 10 or 5 year) horizon, we can break things down into a different sort of framework. When I put a 30 year view, rethought as only 360 months, something changes in the way I approach it. 

And when we think about where we wish to be, recognizing progress is an important part of making sure we are heading in a direction that is meaningful to us. Our context changes over time, our views and priorities shift, and a constant dialogue with ourselves is vital as we look to progress and push forward. 

From goal setting to ambition – this podcast covers the loop, and gives you a number of different questions to ask yourself as you move forward. Enjoy!

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Welcome to Bellwether. Thank you, episode 121. It’s good to see everybody again or hear everybody again, or just know that you’re listening. It’s a wonderful thing. Today we’re talking about time in this fun, philosophical kind of, well, not really philosophical, but kind of philosophical way, um,  time management. It’s almost a new way to think about time management and a little perspective on time and how I feel like there is so much, especially from a social media standpoint, so much pressure to take action and do all of these things and things are changing so quickly, and how do I do this and how do I do that? And I have to get things done, and I have to do all of these things. And perspective really helps as we go through these types of things.

0:46

And so,  you know,  I was talking to the team, um,  and I’ve talked to clients about this too,  you know, oh,  do I really want to do this job for another 30 years and what do I have? And I’m only 35, I wanna go to 65, or I’m 45 and I’ve only got 20 years, or whatever it is. Um,  and there’s,  you know,  30 years seems like so far away, especially if you’re in your early thirties and it’s,  you know,  double the life that you’ve already had. And it seems,  you know,  think about all the experiences you’ve had over time, and there’s a lot of time that you can, you think you have a lot of time, I guess. And then there’s this other side of the coin saying, you never know when, when the, the good world is gonna spit you out. And,  you know,  you’re only on this rock for a short amount of time, and how do you, how do you get more done with the time that you have?

1:30

And it’s more pressure we put on ourselves. And,  you know,  when I think about a 30 year time horizon, it’s only 360 months. Um,  and when I think about 30 years, there’s only 360 months. It, it kind of says it’s not a lot of time.

1:46

And,  you know,  my, my daughter, she’s coming up on six, so she’s five now. That’s what, 60 months? 60 months are gone already outta those 360. So that’s, um, you know,  so how are you thinking about your time horizon?

1:58

That’s what I wanna talk about today. Is it a 30 year horizon, a 20 year horizon, a 10 year horizon? Uh,  I’m 45, 44, something like that, somewhere in my mid forties. And so I probably have, like, you know,  we always, in work, we think about our horizon to the age of 65.

2:18

Um,  and that’s a built in assumption that we have, right? Oh,  I have to do this until I’m 65 and then I can retire. And, uh,  I got 20 years left and, and maybe 15, maybe whatever. I like to think about it until I’m 60.

2:31

The youngest of our kids is gonna be 18, close the doors, I get freedom and life is gonna be good <laugh>. Um,  but the 65 thing is interesting. If, if,  you know  why we picked 65 as a retirement age, and I learned this a long time ago. There was this,  you know,  retirement coaching thing that I had done. And, um, you know,  the age of 65 came.

2:54

Here’s a quick history lesson. The age of 65 as a retirement came from Adovan Bismark back in and fun knowledge aspect of it. The reason they picked the age of 65, Adovan, Bismarck wanted in a position Germany as like the premier, um,  cosmopolitan place in Europe. And so he came out saying, Hey, if you work until you’re 65, once you’re 65, the state will take care of you. And it was supposed to be this nice big thing and,  you know,  look how, look how forward thinking we are.

3:20

But the reason they picked the age of 65 is something like,  less than 3% of people lift past that. And so it wasn’t gonna be this big financial impact on, on the business, but it, or on the, on the state. So it took this big, it was, it was more of like,  look at this good pr we could get out of it. It’s not really gonna impact us, but it took fire and say, oh,  we can work until 65 and, and do it.

3:39

That assumption’s going away.  You know,  as you look at people who get to the age of 65, they still have plenty of value. They still have lots of things to do. They still want to work. They still need some kind of purpose. Um,  and when we get to 65, you’ll find that there’s just a lot more to be done. And you’re not just going out to pastor and you’re not just gonna die in 10 years and, and do whatever. People are living longer and everything else.

4:01

So, um,  when we think about time on the long-term horizon, uh,  I heard a good quote the other day. Some guy named Kevin Kelly, I have no idea who he is, not the Kevin Kelly. I know, I actually know a couple of Kevin Kelly’s, but none of those, I don’t know who Kevin Kelly is, but I heard this quote. Um,  we tend to overestimate what we could do in the short term and underestimate what we can do in the long term.

4:23

And that’s,  you know,  when we think about saving for retirement and, and all of these things, we kind of, it sneaks up on us, right? All of these things sneak up on us. Say, where did the time go? And we need different mindsets to accommodate for this.

4:36

We need, um, you know,  a long-term kind of vision, a, a short-term vision, a, a one year vision, a quarterly vision, a monthly, a weekly whatever it is, a daily. Um,  and we have to change our mindsets on each of these because who we are as an individual actually changes.  You know,  one of the things I learned when I was becoming a coach is,  you know,  you set all these goals for yourself and you make a little bit of progress on one of these goals. You actually become, if your behavior changes, which it will, you actually become a different person, you’re gonna make different types of choices over time as you become a different human being and a different person. And context changes, the world changes.

5:18

You get kids, you get,  you know,  you buy a home, whatever, you, you get all of these types of things. And so we have to do this constant reevaluation on what’s relevant and what’s important to us. And part of that reevaluation is to recognize the progress that we’ve actually made. And we lose sight of all the things that we’ve accomplished over a period of time. And, and when I, I speak to clients who are frustrated with, um, you know,  20 years at corporate, and who am I and where am I going? And there’s never a discussion on the progress that they’ve made.

5:50

And that’s usually where I like to start.  You know,  let’s talk about where you were and, and where you’ve become. Mm-hmm. Um,  and when we look at our to-do lists and all the things that’s not getting done,  you know,  just throw it away. Um,  it’s so cathartic to just throw out half your list. Um,  there was always this lifetime goal to, to be able to speak French and I, I don’t think I’ll ever speak French, and that’s okay, <laugh>.

6:13

Um,  because here’s what happens.  You know,  there, there’s a lot of research on deadlines, um,  and we put these arbitrary deadlines on ourselves and, and sometimes it helps you take action, right? And that’s the point of a deadline. We, we set this deadline, and I’m a procrastinator and I get this, this, this little spark of creativity whenever something’s due the next day. And I, I’ve been thinking about, and that’s just how I like to operate.

6:35

And I, I could do things really quickly and really well, um,  with these deadlines. However, pushing things that we don’t really want to do or that aren’t really going to happen to the, whatever this task is to a deadline, it creates stress. So some research finds that it lessens creativity because of these things that you don’t want to do. Um,  and so how do you just get them off and get them off of your list?

6:58

Whether you just take whatever short term action you have to do to push it back, or do you actually change it, um,  or delete it or, or whatever it is that you want to do. So we are people, we are, we become what we prioritize over time and what’s important for us and what’s a priority for us, changes over time. And so when we think about I’ve got 360 months, 240 months, whatever it is, it gives you a different kind of, oh, you know  what, in five months could I get this kind of progress? And what kind of progress am I looking towards,  you know,  some bigger goal of whatever it is that I wish to do. And, um,  one of the books that I always like to read, I probably read it annually or at least I try to, is called the War of Art. And I like the War of Art. It’s by a guy named Steven Presfield, and he wrote it for writers in terms of getting past writer’s block. And I, I feel like it’s, when we think about progress and what we need to do and what we wish to do and what we hope to do and all of these types of things, um,  he has something, he, he calls the resistance.

8:03

We always have a reason why we can’t take action on some of the things that we actually want to take action on. Work is more important, or this thing comes in, or we’ve got this stupid shit on instant,  you know,  social media, whatever. We’re watching these videos, all these things could fill our time, the new Netflix series, whatever it is. And some of those are good in their place, right? Sometimes we need to just check out and do that.

8:25

But, um,  if we think about these things as just resistance to what it is that we’re looking to accomplish over the long term, preventing us from making the progress that we wish to make. I just met a woman the other night. I was doing some speech at a local library who’s been wanting to write a book. She’s probably in her early seventies.

8:41

And she, I wrote all these different things and I haven’t, I said, well, why don’t you just write it? And she’s got some kind of block of resistance, um,  whether it’s fear of what other people will see or what whatever. Um,  and so when we think about our long-term priorities and what short-term steps can we take to get there, and that different type of mindset, um,  is an important exercise to go through. And it’s almost like a weekly or a monthly kind of conversation that you have with yourself is, am I making the progress on the person that I wish to be? And if not, what do I have to change?

9:13

Right? It’s the happiness equation. Happiness equation are expectations times satisfaction equals happiness.  You know,  most people when they say they’re not happy, they’re actually not satisfied. And when they say they’re not satisfied, they look externally and they say, well, I’m not satisfied cuz this person’s doing this and workplace isn’t giving me this and, uh,  blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But they’re never talking about the steps that they could take or the progress that they made.

9:34

And so when we think about how to take action on progress that you could do, the first question is, do you need to, um,  we crave instant gratification. We, we crave,  you know,  this, this, um,  idea that,  you know,  I work hard and I should get something. Um,  but most of us don’t really know what working hard really means, if I’m gonna be honest. Um,  and it’s a psycho, it’s a real psychological challenge.

10:00

Long term goals are a psychological game that you have to play with yourself. It’s a, it’s a philosophical game in terms of what are the, what are the real hard questions that we should be asking ourselves? And, um,  yes, deadlines are important, but you have to hold yourself accountable to the things that you wanna prioritize. And that’s kind of the message that we have to do when we think about time. There is an ongoing dynamic, long-term versus short-term. There was a may he rest in peace, uh,  Peterson, his last name was Peterson.

10:30

He used to be the head of executive coaching at Google. He spoke at one of our conferences and, and I may have shared this on the podcast before, but he had this grid of questions that you could ask yourself, and he shared it with us and said that we could share it. I give him credit whenever I do share it. Um,  where each day you asked, did I accomplish what I need to accomplish today? And what could I have done better? Right?

10:49

Two simple questions, takes two seconds. But then he is got a weekly question, similar vein this week and next week, monthly question, quarterly question, annual question, tri-annual question, decade questions. And when you get to those types of decade questions, it’s, am I doing the things that I wish to do? Am I the person that I wish to be? How can I disrupt myself and how can I question my assumptions?

11:11

And these are questions that we should be,  you know,  put ourselves into this system where it forces us to recognize the progress that we made to date. But then we could say, all right, this is where I wish to be in a year, six months, or whatever it is. And then what are my,  you know,  what do I, what decision do I have to make today? What does that have to be done in a week?

11:30

And, and all of that. So, um,  when we think about time management, when we think about doing time, when we think about responding to time and, and making sense of purpose and all this shit that we like to talk about, um,  time management has its place, but often we think about it too tactically in terms of, I have to get these things off of a to-do list. Time management also is about recognizing progress and recognizing a bigger picture. And when we think about ambition and when we think about where we wish to go and what’s important and what’s priority, what do we believe?  You know,  you hear me talk about what do we believe all the time? These are our discussions that we have to have with ourselves.

12:07

Otherwise, um,  time management and Teslas and everything will burn you and they’ll burn you out. And,  you know,  360 months, 30 years is a long time. If I go,  you know,  I’ve got 360 months until I’m 75, that’s wild. Um,  now what am I gonna do to make ’em count in a way that, that I’m gonna be proud of?

12:25

And and part of that is work. Part of that is,  you know,  when we think about work and, and the work that we do and how ambition is going out of, out of the workplace, there is work funds, other things, right? And, and so how do you fill your life with those types of things, not to be too kind of hippie and theoretical and blah, blah, blah,  you know  what I mean? Um,  so anyway, that’s my fun kind of exercise to think about is, is what does time mean to you and what are the long-term and short-term angles that, that you get to play with and, and struggle with?

12:55

And, and just put a reminder in your calendar, put it in your phone, right? Ask yourself these types of questions. And I’ll put, I’ll put, um,  Mr. Peter, I forget his first name, unfortunately it’s not Doug Peterson.

13:05

It’s, um,  I’ll find it, but I’ll put it on the website or maybe I’ll link to it with, with the post. Um,  these are good questions to ask yourself in terms of are you progressing in the wish in the way that you wish to progress? And when we think about that happiness equation,  you know,  expectations, where do you expect to be? And are you satisfied with what you’ve done to get there?

13:24

Did you do your best? And if one of those things, if the answer is no, then you have, that’s an accountability measure to say,  you know  what, it’s not a happiness thing because we think other people have to make us happy. It’s about satisfaction, it’s about accountability. It’s about what decisions can you make today because the person you become tomorrow is a result of the decisions that you have to make today. And that’s on time and that’s fun. And so, have a wonderful week. Think about your time, and I look forward to speaking to everybody soon. Have a great week. Thanks.

My commentary on my own mental health has been shared before, from my philosophy on it, to my own challenges with dark places and how to respond to massive levels of change. As it’s Mental Health Awareness month, I figured I would add one element to that mix: the reminder that our own mental health is our own responsibility. 

Mental health means so many things to so many people that there is no one single solution to solving it, and unsolicited advice on wellness, without your context, doesn’t do anyone any favors. 

We have so many things done for us in our life, that we often forget we still have to take action for our own development and wellness. If we wait for other people to step up for us, we will find we don’t get what we really need or want. 

More on the podcast – I hope you enjoy it – and, as always, I’m here to chat.

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3, 2, 1. Welcome to Bellwether episode 120. It’s Mental Health Awareness Month. So let’s talk about mental health. It’s been a topic of mine a bunch. If you’ve listened to the, the podcast in the past, if you’ve heard the Ted Talk, if you heard any of those things,  you know,  mental health is one of my core components of, of how to remain relevant, I guess I could say in, in the new economy. And so, um,  it’s an important month.

0:29

I think it’s an important thing to, to prioritize and it’s an important thing to discuss and it’s an important time to remind. And I love the fact that it happens in May because the weather’s beautiful and you get outside, at least here in the Northeast, and you go outside and you kinda want to be healthy. You want to be well, you want to do all of these things. And particularly right now, there is a need for, for significant mental health work amongst all of us. Now, I will not say what you’re supposed to do cuz everybody’s very quick <laugh> to tell you how to be mentally well. Everybody’s got their opinions on how you should operate on the things that you can do all these solutions without the context of what makes you so spectacular and wonderful.

1:15

And so I’m not gonna go into that today. I will, however, uh,  talk to you about some of my particular challenges. I will talk about the framework that I use to kind of get myself out of these ruts and to make sure that I’m maintaining some kind of mental wellness and, and continually discuss and converse with myself in this kind of crazy way. But it’s fun.

1:33

Um,  but I definitely want to touch on it because it is so important. Because the struggle is real for many, many people, especially my clients. Uh,  corporations are trying to do what they can, or at least the people in corporations are trying to do what they can to help their people at work. Uh,  but at the end of the day, we’re all responsible for, for the bed that we lie in.

1:52

And so, um,  I will kick that off by saying we have a responsibility to ourselves to be mentally well. And this is not,  you know,  we know it, we hear it, and it’s not an easy thing to do, especially with the world changing and workplace changing and all this noise coming in from social media and this noise coming in from the news and this noise coming in from everywhere else where anxiety is just piling up and piling up and piling up. Um,  so it’s incredibly difficult for us to focus on it when so many other things are going on. Now, when we think about life in general, and I tell this to, to corporate when we’re doing workshops and everything else, we are what we prioritize and we can only prioritize so many things. Like  at work, if you wanna prioritize mental health, then how is that kicking off every meeting with a discussion about mental health, whatever it is, right? You don’t have to have a full discussion, but  you know,  what are you doing to be well this week and what are you doing to be well this week?

2:48

And what challenges are you working on? And, um,  there are ways to do that in an appropriate kind of work appropriate way, but we have to do that for ourselves. Now, it doesn’t mean,  you know,  when we say we are what we prioritize with the result of our decisions, with the result of the work we do ourselves. Um,  it doesn’t mean it’s all or nothing, right? And a lot of times we hear,  you know,  I work in a toxic workplace, so for my mental health, I’m leaving.

3:10

It’s not this all or nothing component. And oftentimes when we think about what’s driving our negative mental health, we’re so focused externally at blaming other things. We’re not focused on the decisions that we’re making and the opportunities we’re not taking to get ourselves to where it is that we need to go. Um,  we are the result of our decisions of our internal, it’s called an internal dialogue. What, what’s the conversation you’re having inside of your head based on what do you need? What do you need in this particular moment? And  you know,  the framework I laid out in the TED talk, the physical, the mental, the social areas of preparation for change, it’s the same.

3:49

And you could also argue a financial one. Um,  it’s the same with our, with our overall health in terms of not just preparing for change, but in terms of how are we living our lives,  you know,  from a physical standpoint, are you doing what you need to do? Cause that impacts your mental health from a social standpoint. Who are the people you’re surrounding yourself that impacts your mental health? It’s this kind of nice little web grid, um,  however you wanna call it, right?

4:12

Something. It’s a system. We’ll call it a framework, we’ll call it whatever it is that we want. But from a mental health standpoint, from a mental health focus, uh,  there are three categories that I like to put in. One is the self-love aspect, two is the self-care aspect, and three is the belief system. And these are my three, as I was figuring out a long time ago what my mental health needed. And, and  you know,  I, I did podcasts on this back during the pandemic. Um,  how I quit drinking and, and how that benefited my mental health and how I needed to quit drinking in order to do that. Um,  how the Ironman helped me go into a dark place and pull myself out of it.

4:54

Um,  and going through these exercises of what, what system do you need bespoke to you, you have to fill in these gaps, right? Self-love on what you think about yourself. Nobody can tell you what to think about yourself. And it’s a challenge to do this because we know all of our dark secrets.

5:10

We know the, the, the fears and the failures and the opportunities we didn’t take and the mistakes we made and the relationships we broke. And, um,  and that’s a painful, difficult conversation to have. Um,  but it’s also a good conversation to have so that you can embrace who you actually are. And the, the Russo quote I give everywhere, I’ve probably said it a hundred times on this podcast that he wrote in a letter to his friend, how can one be satisfied with anything in life if they’re not satisfied with the one person that they can never be separated from?

5:41

And that’s you. And we’ve got this happiness challenge, we’ve got a satisfaction challenge. We’ve got,  you know,  am I making right? Choices, challenge, and you always make right choices, right?

5:51

It’s based on the context that you have and you’re making the best decisions that you can in the moment. And when we’re comfortable with ourselves and loving ourselves and recognizing that we do have value and articulating that value to ourselves, we don’t have to shout from rooftops. So be being comfortable with who we are as an individual is one fundamental step. And that takes work. It’s not easy, right?

6:13

Because we all have, I’ve got dark demons, you don’t even want to know my demons. But it, and it took me a long time to get through that. And it took me,  you know,  a lot of, um,  thought and challenging myself. And,  you know,  just because it happened in the past doesn’t mean it has to happen in the future. And, and you can change your perception of yourself over time, but you have to get this dialogue going with yourself. From there, once  you know  who you are and you’re comfortable in embracing the fact that you have imperfections, everybody’s got them, then we move into the self-care, which again, is bespoke to you. What do you need?

6:45

What do you need in any particular moment to help you with your self-love to help you with whatever, uh,  anxieties being thrown your way, whatever macro change is happening in the world, or financial challenges we have, or, um,  stress from the kids or stress from work, whatever it is, right? The stress is coming in from everywhere. Stress is our biggest challenge. What’s the care that you need?

7:08

Is it, do you need to meditate? Meditate? Do you need to go for a walk, walk? Do you need, uh,  some time in the woods? Go spend a week in the woods. What, whatever it is for you,  you know  what gives you a really good charge?

7:20

You know,  what regenerates you in a really meaningful way? And again, it goes back to the prioritization. How do you prioritize that? Also, not easy, right?

7:32

We have obligations, we have family, we have work, we have all of these types of things. It doesn’t mean that you have to leave all of it behind and go out to the desert and meditate for a week, but there are little ways that we can do that, um,  where we can really focus on what it is that we need. How do we use that to, to embrace ourselves and, and get ourselves back on the right path? It’s also not a quick fix.

7:54

It doesn’t, some, it’s not something that just happens,  you know,  once you do, oh,  I’ll meditate for five minutes and everything’s good. Uh,  but generally what it is in terms of self-care is it, it balances out that stress to say,  you know  what? I just need a 30 minute recharge, or I need a two hour recharge, or whatever it is. Um,  that’s what we all need on a very regular basis, like  almost daily. What is it that you need to kind of recharge? And, um,  if it doesn’t happen daily, it should happen multiple times a week.

8:20

And then finally you’ve got your belief system is what do you believe? This allows us to love ourselves. It allows us to be open to the fact that we might be wrong. It allows us to recognize that we don’t have to be right all the time. That a lot of the stress and anxiety I deal with, um,  with clients or help them deal with is this desire to be right all the time and correct people and defend these ideas that they don’t necessarily actually believe.

8:44

And it’s a, that’s just a form of anxiety that nobody really talks about. And so when you recognize that a belief system is just beliefs and you understand the questions you can ask to say,  you know  what, maybe I don’t actually believe this, or if I do believe it and you believe something different, that’s okay. So having a dynamic belief system in place, which also is an ongoing malleable thing that takes constant work, these are fun discussion frameworks that we can go through and challenge ourselves every day. We could pick a little tiny thing and learn about ourselves to allow us to really take responsibility and control of, of what it is and, and what we want to do. So this has to be bespoke to us, okay?

9:25

This is your framework, self-love, self-care, belief system. And in order to have these really, really good internal conversations, it helps to surround ourselves with, uh,  people who can help. It helps to surround us with, uh,  people who have different ideas than you, right? There’s a, there’s a lot of talk about male mental health in the workplace, um,  which is good because men just don’t like to talk about it. Uh,  I don’t like that we’re telling everyone that they have to talk about it, right? Everyone’s got an opinion on what you need to do for your mental health.

9:56

Um,  but I will say to the guys, um,  sometimes it helps to have a female perspective or a different ethnicity or whatever this,  you know,  whatever this different kind of view is to recognize that it’s not all on your shoulders, right? And, and people are dealing, everybody’s dealing with some shit. Everybody’s dealing with difficult things. And when we understand that, it takes the pressure off a little bit, right?

10:16

We only have this short period of time on the planet. We only,  you know,  each day is 24 hours in a day. There’s only so much you could do.  You know,  there’s a cathartic exercise to say, what am I actually responsible for?

10:24

And what am I holding onto that I don’t have to really hold onto? Um,  mental health comes in so many different buckets. There’s,  you know,  drug abuse, alcohol abuse and all that. That’s a mental health challenge. There’s the insecurity, the anxiety, there is the stress from work, the stress from, um, uh,  from change, just,  you know,  what’s AI going to do? And, and we question ourselves as human beings and what our value is.

10:49

And when we can anchor ourselves in order to find value, in order to articulate value to ourselves, um,  we have to take ownership of ourselves and our response mechanisms. And we have to say, and I mentioned this in in the TED Talk, many of us don’t go from adolescents to adulthood. We don’t make that transition. And it’s very difficult to do it because everything is done for us today. But the difference, a therapist told me this once, the difference between adolescents and adulthood is in adolescence, people do things for you.

11:22

Adulthood is when you take responsibility for your actions. And many of us, we don’t have to make that transition. And that’s damaging to us. And it, it’s this, it drives addition. It’s this unseen kind of anxiety to, to where we feel like we’re not in control. And it’s because we’re not actually taking responsibility for who we are as a human being and the choices we’re making and the decisions we’re making and all of that. Um,  now I’ve had my problems.

11:45

This was eye-opening for me, right? Where it’s,  you know  what, we talk about all of this stuff, but we don’t actually take action. And I actually had to take action and I finally said,  you know  what? I’m gonna stop drinking and I’m gonna do this and I’m gonna do that. And when we do things every day or every week or every month, we make these decisions to say, this is what I need to do. It’s not about saying I can’t do anything else, but you do it within the context of the world that you have around you. And those are the decisions that we have to do.

12:14

So mental health, um,  means so many things to so many different people and there’s no one single solution to solving it. But it’s that dynamic discussion with ourselves on what you need, the decisions you’re making. Um,  everything in life is a choice. Everything is is a choice. Waking up and going to work in the morning is technically a choice. Waking up next to your spouse every morning is technically a choice. Um,  being a parent to your kids is technically a choice, right? You can abdicate these responsibilities whether you like it.

12:51

I mean, it’s not a nice thing to do <laugh>. Um,  but ultimately it’s a choice. And,  you know,  I choose to be a father every day. I choose to be married to Gabby every day. I choose to do this work every day because I know it’s good for me. And how do you go through,  you know,  what is it that’s giving you some particular challenge right now?

13:10

For me, going back to the parenting theme, my house is a mess. I’ve got two kids. I love being organized. My house is a shit show right now, and it drives me nuts. I can’t walk throughout my house without stepping on a toy or something like that. Drives me bananas. My decisions right are all right. What do I have to get cleaned up in order to kind of clear my workspace and all those other types of things so I can focus and I can do whatever it is that I need.

13:33

It could be anything, right? But we have to be hardcore reflective on what it is that we need in a particular moment so that we’re then able to make the decisions that we have to make so that we can progress and make the decisions and take the actions that we actually have to take. This is something, um,  that is a forever exercise for you. Um,  and I love the Oscar wild quote quote, the aim of life is self-development because we’ve forgotten the greatest responsibility, which is a responsibility to ourselves. And that is it. That is ultimately what life is about.

14:05

We have a choice, we have a decision, and we have a set amount of time where we can enjoy each moment.  You know,  I was talking to someone, well, this is almost like my dating kind of analogy is, you go on a first date and then you decide if you want to go on a second date with that person. And if the second date goes well, you decide if you wanna go on a third date with that person. You decide if you wanna go on a fourth date with that person. You go to work each day, your first day, you’re like,  all right, I’m gonna go back and I’m gonna go back and I’m gonna go back.

14:31

If at any point you don’t wanna go on a fifth date with that person, you end the relationship. That’s it. And you make the changes that you have to make. It’s the same with anything else that you’re working on is,  you know,  how do you enjoy your particular moment? How do you enjoy the family? How do you enjoy the work? How do you, those are decisions that you have to, to work on. And it’s not easy.

14:51

It’s difficult because other people make it difficult, right? I’m more far more introverted than I am extroverted. So I will tell you, going into a group of people generally makes things worse, <laugh> than better. But sometimes it could give you a real charge if  you know  how to enjoy the people around you and the moment that you’re in and what you’re doing.

15:07

And, and that’s a challenge that you have to, how do you enjoy this next hour of your day? What’s, and we do things we don’t want to do because we have to do them, right? We have obligations. How do you enjoy it and how do you figure that out?

15:20

So mental health is, um,  it’s big and it’s, I I think it’s a, a great time in May to reflect on what it is that you’re working on and, and your particular challenges. And, um,  and as always, I’m gonna be here for you if, if there’s anything you want to talk about, even just for someone to listen to you vent, uh,  the amount of people who call me every day just to vent. Um,  it’s why I can’t get any of my work done, but it’s, um,  but I know it’s meaningful and I know it’s helpful and it’s, it’s, it’s very, very good. And so find your people to help you with this.

15:51

Um,  but you’re ultimately the person who’s gotta make those types of decisions. So good luck with it. I’m here to help. Um,  I’ve got resources on the website. There’s all kinds of stuff that you could do and, and just kind of reflect and, and go through those, those types of exercises. So, um,  as always, reach out if there’s anything I can do to be helpful for you.

16:08

Enjoy your month, enjoy the month of May, and enjoy being mentally well and enjoy the fun. I mean, it’s, it’s super fun to go through what I tell people at the beginning of a coaching engagement. It’s super fun because you get to work on yourself and what, what’s cooler than working on, on yourself and, and making you the center of attention for yourself, cuz you are the most important thing to yourself. And that’s good.

16:29

And so do it. Take care of it. Love yourself, do good things. I am here if you need me.

16:33

I will talk to everybody soon. And next week we’re gonna talk about time. We’re gonna go through the time exercise. Do  you know  30 years is only 360 months. It’s not a lot of time.

16:46

Um,  it flies just 360 months. And if you were to kind of anchor that out, I’m a planner. Uh,  we’re gonna go through that kind of fun time exercise and we’ll talk about that next week. So, uh,  I look forward to chatting everybody soon. And thanks for your time. Chat soon.

Like many other buzzwords, the word ‘empathy’ has been thrown around so much that it has begun to mean something entirely different. When we hear the word empathy, we often think it to be something that is entirely positive and helpful, but what if this is not the case?

In reading Paul Bloom’s Against Empathy, I’ve found that much of the assumption around empathy can be misplaced and misunderstood. 

Empathy has its place. And, of course, it has value – when put in the appropriate context. But ultimately, what many executives I speak with are finding (paired with very interesting research), a misinterpretation of empathy is forcing us to lose sight of a bigger picture. We are so focused on an individual that we can make irrational decisions that aren’t beneficial to a larger initiative or organization. 

From actually promoting biases (we are empathic with our own type of people) to innumeracy (this one person is more important than the 100 or 1000 others) to increasing our stress levels (increased empathy has shown higher suffering later in the week), our perspective can be skewed with too much empathy. And with organizations going full-tilt in training and learning initiatives towards promoting empathy, businesses can be hurt and negatively impacted due to this misunderstanding. 

Empathy is good from a moral and humanity perspective, but it must be paired with logic, reasoning and compassion. Our learning and development initiatives need to provide empathy training within context, and teach the additional skill sets with it. 

As the world changes so quickly, and the very important recognition of the human beings that we work with, we have an obligation, from a business focus, to differentiate logic and emotion, and use these inputs to inform effective decisions to help businesses survive. Those that don’t will surely be left behind. 

More is on the podcast, and it’s a fun exercise to think, ourselves, about our own ability to feel, to give weight and compassion to others. Rather than blindly follow a basic learning agenda, we all know that context is vital as we build our own philosophy on interpersonal activity and relationships. I’ll leave that as your thought of the week!

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Hey folks, welcome to Bellwether episode 119. Today we’re talking about empathy and the case against it. <laugh>, if  you know  me, pause for a second. Did he say that right? Did he say what? I think he’s gonna say, no empathy. No empathy.

0:18

If  you know  me,  you know  me well, um, you know,  my feelings on buzzwords and how generally when something is everywhere, it’s often misinterpreted and taught in the wrong kind of way. And we, we think about things and we overdo it. We completely overdo these things. And I read an interesting book recently by Paul Bloom, uh,  I think it’s called Against Empathy.

0:40

Um,  and it makes a really compelling case. And I, I instantly went to the workplace and, and the things going on in the workplace about how, um,  we’re, we’re, we’re teaching and pushing too much empathy, that it’s affecting the way our businesses can move forward. And, um,  and so like all the buzzwords, humility, vulnerability, um,  resiliency, all of these have been, have been just thrown around so much that they’ve lost their meaning and they start to mean something entirely different. Um,  and, and we often think of it as,  you know,  naturally positive and helpful, but as the meaning changes, we don’t really mesh those two things together.

1:19

And so, um,  empathy has its place. I have to start off, empathy has its place, but when it comes to being a good person, when it comes to making good decisions, we need to think of something. We need to use something different besides empathy. And one of the, I mean, the biggest challenge I have with empathy is a lot of it becomes down to the word should. I think the word should be eliminated from the, the English language.

1:42

It’s so judgmental. And, and,  you know,  to say that you should do something, it should be something, uh, you know,  I hate that and, and, um,  can’t stand it. So I, I don’t like to use that, but a lot of empathy. Um,  but a lot of, a lot of these buzzwords should, isn’t a buzzword, but humility, resiliency, empathy, vulnerability, all of these, I mean, those are kind of like the main four.

2:06

I’m sure there are others. Um,  and they just get blasted. People say, oh,  this is a buzzword, and let me do a, a, a training on it and a coaching on it. And it’s just the surface level.

2:15

I, I read psychology today and I’m gonna put it out. And, um,  there’s no full understanding of what these words really mean, and it leads to negative results. And that’s what I think is happening to empathy. And it’s beyond the workplace. It’s,  you know,  it’s in society and everything else. Um,  so let’s talk about, let’s, I guess I should kick it off by telling you that empathy is good, but there are many meanings of empathy.

2:39

And empathy is good when it’s contained within its compartment, I guess we’ll call it, we’ll call it a compartment. Um,  some people would say it means kindness and goodness in a broad sense, and I might agree with that. Um,  some believe it involves understanding people. And, and there’s a morality point of it. Um,  the way Paul Bloom defined it in his book against Empathy, um,  he said it was feeling the feelings of other people.

3:16

And I have a quote here. It says, by empathy, I mean feeling the feelings of other people. So if you’re in pain and I feel your pain, I am feeling empathy toward you. If you’re being anxious, I pick up your anxiety.

3:27

If you’re sad, I pick up your sadness. I’m being empathic. And that’s different from compassion. Compassion means I give your concern weight, I value it, I care about you, but I don’t necessarily pick up your feelings.

3:38

And this is an important distinction. Um,  when we think about the workplace, and we think about beyond the workplace, actually, we’re all human beings. We’re all interact with community. I don’t know why I always say it’s for the workplace, but it’s, um,  when you give someone someone’s concerns weight, and you show value, and you show respect, that’s compassion.

3:58

We don’t need to take this work on ourselves, and we need to compartmentalize it within the bigger picture. And I’m gonna give a few examples of how empathy can be negative, um,  and misinterpreted and, and do that. But  you know,  initially, right, we pick up someone’s anxiety, we pick up someone’s negativity, we pick up someone’s sadness, we try to do all of these types of things. And, um,  first of all, you can’t.

4:26

You can’t, right? All you could do, one of my favorite sayings is we don’t see things as they are. We see things as we are. So we can’t really fully pick up the feelings of anyone else.

4:35

1

All we’re doing is punishing ourselves when we see someone else have a tragedy or a problem or a challenge or something like that. Um,  so when we take a look at the studies, one, it increases stress on you, the empathic individual. And I, I am an empathic individual. I know what you are thinking.  You know,  there’s a thing called cognitive empathy, which we’ll talk about in a little bit. It’s like,  I can kind of guess what you’re thinking. We’re the only species on the planet that could do that.

5:04

1

It’s kind of neat. Growing up in a family of six kids, you kind of know, you get feelings down pretty quickly. Um,  so when we think about the studies one, um,  it increases stress studies who are shown empathic, uh,  items at the beginning of the week. So increase suffering later in the week rather than good items. We seek out the negative. So when we’re teaching people to be more empathic and telling people to be more empathic, we’re actually telling them to look for suffering and pain.

5:36

So that’s not a good thing, obviously. Um,  studies that show when, when coming to making decisions, empathy is the spotlight that, uh,  helps you focus on one small inconsequential thing while missing the bigger picture. So your decision making is affected. Um,  we have this inability to pair,  you know,  it’s emotional.

5:59

Empathy is emotional. And when I do a lot of work with my clients, we’re talking about the logic versus emotion kind of conundrum, right? What makes sense? Where’s the reasoning behind that? Um,  but stress is emotional and everything else as well.

6:11

And, and, um,  how do we avoid letting this emotion, takeover fairness and, and smartness and, and reasoning and, and everything else. So, um,  so there’s a lot of studies that show that empathy used in the wrong context can be negative. And I’m sure if you paused and thought for a minute about the misery that is your life, <laugh>, um,  the, the stress that we feel, I’m sure you could probably make a link, um,  to empathy driving a lot of those things up, up the channel. Now, it doesn’t mean don’t care about other people, it’s not what I’m saying, of course. Um,  but let’s go through some of these.

6:56

I’ve got a few categories, um,  that Sade put in, and it, it’s really, really good. Uh,  first, your bias steers your empathy, um,  which is wild. So most of the people pushing for empathy are also the ones speaking a lot about unconscious bias and all of these biases that we have in the workplace. Empathy is really tied up a lot in the diversity and inclusion thing. Um,  and it should not be okay.

7:26

Um,  and we see that a lot.  You know,  we saw that with, um,  I always go back to George Floyd because that’s when it was just so visible and, and loud. Um,  and the discussion was there. White people were actually paying attention.

7:41

So I always kind of go back to that. Um,  but we, when we talk about empathy, we’re empathic to, to people like us, right? We are empathic to people. We, we’ve got our little communities and we’ve got the people that look like us, and we’ve got all those types of things. And so when we tie it up with diversity and inclusion and empathy and everything else, the people on the receiving end of your empathy almost want to throw it out the window and say, you don’t understand what I feel.

8:08

You don’t understand these types of things. And, um,  and we saw that with George Floyd and all the white people were trying to be empathic to black people. And, and <laugh>, in conversations I had with, with black people that I didn’t know, they were like,  shut the hell up, right? This isn’t like,  you don’t get it, you just don’t get it, and you’re not gonna get it because you haven’t grown up and lived it.

8:27

And so, um,  we feel less empathy for people who aren’t in our own culture because we connect with our, our people, we connect with our fellow humanity, whether it’s people of the same language, people of the same skin color, people of the same hair, color, eye color, whatever it is. Like  that’s, um,  it doesn’t mean that we’re disruptive to that, but we’re,  you know,  we’re social beings and we have our little kind of groups and, and, and we do that. So, um,  people who aren’t in our culture, you see tragedy, you see pain, you see all of these types of things, but when they’re across the sea, it doesn’t really matter to you, right? You see, you get a little bit of sadness, but then you move on with your day, you see it like down the street or with your neighbor, and all of a sudden it’s a different kind of level. So, um,  when we think of empathy, it’s, it’s generally focused on a single person, one person where I’m feeling what you’re feeling and that one person is a spot, gets a spotlight on them, and you get this one big light on this one person, but there are so many people not included in the spotlight.

9:35

And so that bias that I is naturally built into that to say, I’m just focused on you. I don’t care about anybody else. Those people out of the spotlight are very relevant as well. Which brings us to the next challenge.

9:46

Beyond bias is en numeracy. Because we only care about one person, it forces us to not care about the a hundred or a thousand or, um,  bigger picture people. It forces us to make bad decisions, maybe unethical decisions. Um,  there’s this constant, and I think about this in terms of corporate, right?

10:05

And, and kind of an example that’s not really about empathy, but it’s about more about the one person type of thing. Um,  there’s this consistent pendulum swing at work. We get power to the people, um,  power to the corporate, power to the people, power to the corporate. And, and what we see now with the people who wanna work from home is saying, I’m more productive. Working from home is, is generally the line that goes, I wanna work from home because I as an individual and more productive, the business wants people back. Because fine, you as an individual in your little silo, magic world may be more productive. The business collectively is not more productive, which is why we want people back in the office.

10:43

And, um,  and just like that, in that same way, empathy focuses on one person, not the many other things that are relevant, not the bigger picture, not, it skews your perspective. It skews your general productivity. It skews your focus to say that this is, we’re giving more weight to this one individual than it should probably be. Whereas there is a bigger organization going on, there is a bigger picture going on. And how do we rather than say, I give your concern weight, let me input this into the bigger picture of what the business is. Fine, you wanna work from home, maybe it is two days a week, but there is a bigger picture business picture of doing everything else. Um,  fine. You have this concern or challenge, um,  or sadness or pain or whatever it is.

11:25

I will recognize that I give it weight. Uh,  I feel compassion for you, but at the end of the day, there’s a bigger picture than just you. Um,  which is a little dark and, and a difficult way to say it, but it’s true. And that’s the way to do it. Um,  but there’s also another aspect to this in terms of using empathy, um,  to manipulate other people. And that’s the one last thing that I’ll, I’ll throw in before we go on to kind of what to do with, um,  really good empaths. And I’ve known this from experience because I am a really good empath. Um,  and I never thought about it like this, is, I always used to joke that I can make people do whatever it is that they didn’t want to do. Um,  and generally it was around drinking. Like,  I can get, we’ll go out, Hey, let’s go party hard, let’s,  you know,  whatever. Um,  but in this Machiavellian sort of way, really good people at really good empaths can manipulate other people to, to different types of mens.

12:33

Now I’ve chosen to use my, my wicked powers for good <laugh>. Um,  not everyone who’s an empath has this, right? There are, they call dark empaths, right? And they’re high in, they’re narcissistic and they’re psychopaths and, and whatever. I’m not, I’m not that crazy.

12:48

1

I’m, I’m probably halfway there, but I’m not fully crazy. Um,  but it, there is this phenomenon that, that people can manipulate other people by using empathy to get them to do what they wish them to do. Uh,  and in, in a sense, it’s not, empathy is not the opposite of self-interest. It, it’s actually very well tied into self-interest.

13:10

Um,  and so that’s just an interesting kind of side point just to kind of drive that hammer home on why the empathy thing is misinterpreted. Um,  or at least too big. It’s too big. Um,  what are we looking for in an organization, right?

13:22

We, the training that comes on why empathy is so important, and, and we’re teaching this to kids and feel the other feelings and everything else. What we want from an organization is we want security. And that you have my back. Um,  not that you feel my feelings, right? I wanna be respected as a human being. I wanna be heard, but I don’t want, I, I don’t want, um,  pity. I don’t want people to say, oh,  I know how you feel because you don’t. Um, um,  and so when we think about structuring a culture or raising our children, uh,  how do we, how do we pair this, this fine distinction, um,  in terms of developing our personal cultures around us and developing our leaders and managers at the workplace and, and, and getting our kids raised and and up.

14:13

Um,  what does empathy really mean? And how do you teach a child to recognize someone else’s feelings, but not take that on, not take on the feelings, compartmentalize it, recognize it, bigger picture. How do we teach not just empathy, but also logic and reasoning and compassion, right? All of these things go in to understand all of,  you know,  that’s fine that you feel this way.

14:42

I recognize that it’s a, a challenge and, and everything else. Um,  here’s how I may be helpful within the context of something else. Like,  there’s, there’s a way to do that. We have to give ourselves lanes, um, um,  and what’s appropriate, especially in the business sense.

14:54

Cause that’s always just where my head is. Um,  but from there we have to review what empathy really means. And, and I do think probably if you were to take a look at your l and d program and what they’ve got on empathy, you could probably just throw it in the garbage, um,  <laugh> because we’ve all sat in these things. Here’s my, here’s my thing on it.

15:13

And  you know,  I probably shouldn’t have waited till the end of this, but like,  my problem is nobody likes these learning and development things that are out there right now because we’re being told what to do. We’re to being told to be empathic. We’re to being told to do this. We’re being, we should be this, and you should be that. Nobody wants to be told what they should be.

15:28

And that’s what makes it so annoying, and that’s why people don’t like it. And when we’re talking about empathy, what we should be doing is explaining empathy within the context of reason and logic and compassion and everything else, so that people can make their own interpretation of what’s appropriate within the context of whatever situation that they’re in. And the person teaching it has to understand what the hell they’re talking about so that they can answer the questions and do the follow up, and get people to fully understand it so that they can articulate their own individual kind of thing. So that’s my, anyway, that, that was just a little aside. Sorry about that. Um,  anyway, have a great week. It’s good fodder for thought, right?

16:07

1

And, and I’m, I told my wife I was gonna do this, and sh and she’s been challenging me. Everything. She’s like,  empathy is amazing. Empathy is so important, and we’re all human beings. It’s empathy, empathy, empathy. Um,  and we’re going toe to toe on it. She’s asked me a couple questions I couldn’t answer, so I still have my research to do as well. Uh,  but this is an interesting book against empathy.

16:25

It’s, um,  I think it’s valid, I think as we all work towards developing our people and the instant assumptions that we’re making on what’s appropriate from an educational, adult educational perspective, and what are we, um,  pushing for in a culture, right? Empathy has just been thrown in. We just assume that it should be there, maybe not. Okay.

16:48

And let’s, let’s kind of replace it with something a little more, a little more reasonable. So have a wonderful week as always. I wish you the best. And, um,  speaking of it’s mental health awareness month.

17:02

So do good things for that. That’ll be the podcast next week. Have a wonderful week. I’ll talk to you soon. Thanks everybody and see ya. Bye.

It’s been a quarter of mayhem, and as I take a restock of where I stand, I’m excited to share all of the things we have been accomplishing. 

First, we did Not a Webinar with Bess Freedman, launching the new program to provide candid insights from executives that are rocking the new economy. 

Right after, I was off to Northern Ireland, where I had the privilege of speaking at TedX Downpatrick, at the incredible St. Patrick’s Centre. 

The speech was focused on Personal Accountability, and how we have an obligation to ourselves to prepare for change, even when we don’t know what change is coming. The speech, only 12 minutes in length, gives a framework of reflective questions to help us get along. 

More on the podcast, but it goes without saying that some things are crazy right now. It’s up to each of us individually to lay down the bed we lie in. 

Enjoy the week! 

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Welcome to Bellwether. Thank you for joining again this week. We are on episode 118. Back at it, it’s been a busy quarter, and now that’s all behind us and I’ve got so many updates and so many good things to talk to you about. And, uh,  today I want to talk about two things. One, I just recently did a TED Talk, TEDx down Patrick. Um,  so I’m gonna tell you a little bit about that and the lessons I learned from doing that.

0:31

Um,  and also a little bit on personal accountability, which is kind of what the TED Talk was about, um,  in one aspect, but then was also in in terms of others. So it’s been a bit busy. Few weeks if you haven’t been following or if you haven’t been following, I’ll, I’ll give a quick recap. We had our first, not a webinar with Best Friedman.

0:51

It was awesome. Um,  she’s an absolute rockstar, so if you haven’t checked that out, check it out. It’s online. We did a live stream.

0:58

We had an in-person audience. The reason I did that, not a webinar, we’ve got seven more that are gonna be queued up, um,  is that I’m so tired of the webinars being inundated by webinars that, um,  I, I half joke, I say it partly in jest, but they’re just not good.  You know,  we’re inundated with these webinars. So I wanted to create an event, um,  with just real talk from people who are doing really good things and that’s what not a webinar is all about. And so, uh,  Bess really lived up.

1:26

She set a very high standard for the rest of the guests. They’re gonna be very cool. They’re gonna be announced soon. The week after that, I was on a plane over to Northern Ireland, um,  which was amazing.

1:38

It started in Belfast. And, and the reason I went over there, I was invited to speak at the TEDx event in down Patrick in Northern Ireland, which is a little bit south of Belfast. Um,  had an amazing time at Belfast. Got some nice tours of, of community centers, and we had this great dinner and, and I met some really good people.

1:56

And, um,  amazing. You, if you’ve heard the podcast before,  you know,  my love affair with Belfast and how much I love Belfast and, and how I think it’s one of the coolest cities out there. Um,  I, I’d almost call it like the Brooklyn of Europe <laugh>. Um,  it’s just so cool, uh,  and it’s done amazing things and great, amazing things are coming out of it.

2:15

But the TED Talk, if you’ve ever wanted to do a TED Talk or if you’re ever interested in kind of how the sausage is made, um,  Catherine Muran was the, the curator, they call them curators of people who put it on. And it’s a series of speeches. Um,  and there are crazy rules on the speeches in terms of what you can speak on and, and how to get approved and, and there’s time limits in all kinds of, of stuff. Uh,  it was at an amazing place called the St. Patrick’s Center in down Patrick in county down. Um,  it’s just below the down cathedral. It’s this center where if you go around the back, St.

2:54

Patrick’s actually buried there, which is neat. So I gotta see St. Patrick’s grave, which is,  you know,  I I, you’d be hard pressed really to find a, a more famous saint. So that’s kind of cool. Um,  also in that same grave as, as St. Bridget, who’s the other patriot saint of Ireland. Um,  and it was just this cool center just on the history of St.

3:11

Patrick. And you could learn all about St. Patrick and all this good stuff, but they had this nice little theater TEDx events. My understanding is that it’s limited to only a hundred people in the audience, which was a perfect size, I think. I think that’s a really good, uh,  a really good thing. And, and so eight speakers, I wanna say eight speakers, great topics. Um,  everything from a, a woman who started an Irish dance school to an accountant who teaches people accountancy.

3:38

Uh,  but he, he’s also really told his personal story with his family and, and how much he loves his local area is really of a historian. Um,  other coaches spoke a, um,  a disability advocate spoke. She had an incredible kind of perspective in terms of what our assumptions are in terms of what’s appropriate for just the way we structure things from, from an architectural standpoint and, and how we think about people with disability. And so the, the talks that are gonna be coming out are meaningful, and I think people will get some really good, really good tangible aspects out of it. What I spoke, the, the title of the speech is Thriving Amid Constant Change, A Personal Accountability Framework.

4:21

And it’s just my jam. It’s like,  how do you prepare for change when you don’t know what change is coming? And macro change requires a focus on the micro individual, and it’s what the book Adapting Emotion was all about and incredibly relevant today, especially as we look at AI and the massive amounts of change that are coming through. That’s really what I jumped on, is we’re so focused on the change externally that we’re never really focused on what we can control, what we can, what our responsibility is to ourselves, um,  and the personal accountability of taking care of ourselves so that we’re best able to prepare for whatever change comes, like  things like AI or, oh,  I don’t know, pandemics and, and whatever else. And so I walked people through the framework that I’ve done on the podcast before, but I added in a few extra, uh,  quick stories why I quit drinking, and, um, uh,  a good story at the end that people really love. And I’ll talk a little bit about how I met my future self, which was a little wild. Um,  and just walking them through the physical aspect of what’s so important for,  you know,  as we prepare for change and get ready for whatever change is coming, we have this obligation to ourselves that we never really take the obligation for ourselves. We’ll do anything for other people, but we never do anything for ourselves in order to make ourselves in this healthy selfishness type of way.

5:37

And so the focus on the physical, of course, the diet, fitness, sleep, we all know it, we ignore it, but it <laugh> it’s one of those things that we have to focus on. What are we eating? Are we eating the right things? Um,  how are we active every day? And get some sleep, get that good sleep.

5:53

But beyond the physical, the fun stuff is the, the mental preparation, the self-love. How can anyone be satisfied in life if they’re not satisfied with the one person they can never be separated from? Um,  and finding satisfaction with ourselves. And that takes work, a lot of work all the way to self-care. And that’s where,  you know,  my story of why I quit drinking and, and the benefit to my family and my business and everything else.

6:17

And then belief system, which you’ve heard me talk a lot about, is what do you actually believe? And, um,  that’s not a simple question, and it’s a question that needs to be answered all of the time. And it’s a constant discussion with ourselves. Again, obligation to ourselves to answer these questions for us. Uh,  and then finally, the social aspect of, um,  who’s our support system. Take the time to think about who your support system is and, and who are the micro interactions to make sure that we’re part of a bigger world and, and remind ourselves that there’s something bigger than us.

6:48

And, um,  and then the newbies, the new perspectives to challenge our belief systems, to challenge the things that we think. And I mean, that’s kind of surface level. Um,  I only had 12 minutes to kind of speak, but surface level, those are the things that I really went into. And giving that framework, this like three by three grid, um,  that’s a constant.

7:09

I constantly go back to this when I’m dealing with change or managing change or, or feeling my frustration or overwhelmed something. There is, there’s a component in one of those that I can probably reflect on and, and take some tangible action to get myself above whatever the drowning that I feel and, and the difficulty that I feel. And I ended it with not to ruin the TED Talk, cause I want you to watch it should be up, I think it’s gonna be published next week. I hope it’s published next week, um,  was my, my hike to Bear Mountain, um,  that I do every year. I do it every October on the anniversary of when I quit drinking around that time where I take this hike up to the top. It’s the Major Welch Trail. It’s all through Bear Mountain, and you get up to the top and you can see Manhattan in the distance.

7:53

And I pack a lunch and I plan my, we my week, my year, my month, whatever it is, and,  you know,  reflect on what’s challenging to me,  you know,  what’s really present in my mind. And last year when I did it, uh,  I was leaving. I I was just, there was a lot going on right in my head of what I wanted to accomplish, and I couldn’t really focus. And so I ate my lunch and there’s always a lot of people up there if you don’t get up there early enough and everybody’s kind of taking their stupid selfies and, and, um,  it’s not always the greatest place to, to reflect. And so I wrapped up my lunch and took in the view, and then I was leaving and this guy stopped me. Uh,  and I don’t know if I talked about it on this podcast, maybe I did, sorry if I’m repeating a story, but this guy stopped me. He was like,  Hey, can you take a picture of me?

8:34

And he had biked up to the top of Bear Mountain, um,  which is significant, I would say, I’m not much of a cyclist, but he biked up and, uh,  he said he wanted to prove to his wife that he made it to the top. And he was kind of joking and he was real, real, um,  chatty. And, and I wasn’t, um,  my head wasn’t there, right? I wasn’t really open to much discussion, but this guy didn’t need any prompting and he just kind of loaded up and it was almost like he was delivering a message to me.

9:02

And he ended it with, well, so he told a story, and this is why I think I met my future self. His name was Jim. He was in his seventies. He had quit drinking a number of years before he realized that he wasn’t meeting his obligations. Like  he, he basically told me my life story, which was wild. And he ended it, and he just looked at me like,  dead set, like,  you’re an idiot.

9:23

He said, if you wait for somebody to do anything for you, you’re gonna be dead in a box before it’s done. And that was like,  I, it was hitting me so fast. I almost want, I remember thinking at the moment, I gotta tell this guy like,  this is exactly what I needed and I didn’t. I was like,  okay.

9:37

And I just kind of took it and walked away. And, um,  and that’s,  you know,  when we think about personal accountability, um,  and this threw me for a loop, the whole, I take a two hour hike back right through the woods. Like  this is a, a whole half day exercise that I do. And, um,  it’s a two hour loop behind the mountain back to the car. And, um,  it was all I could think about is what am I waiting for someone else to do for me?

9:59

And as I think about all the work that I want to do, all the things that I wanna accomplish, and this is probably relevant to you as you listen to this, is what are you thinking about wanting to accomplish and do? And we get this frustrated. We talk about purpose at work, we talk about all this stuff, and we’re just frustrated. I hear from clients all the time and don’t get the feedback that I need. And  you know,  the question is, how do you get the feedback that you need?

10:19

Then? Do you change the questions you’re asking? Do you change the people you’re asking?  You know,  what are the steps that you can take?

10:25

Because other people aren’t thinking about you. Other people aren’t going to say, Hey,  you know  what, I’m gonna take the time to make sure that you are set up and the way that you need to be set up. Nobody does that, and it’s something I always knew, but we just kind of ignore it. We know it, but we ignore it. And, um,  and <laugh>, as I was writing the speech and I sent it out for feedback, and one person wrote back, and I didn’t say it in Ted Talk, but it shows, when you hear someone, when you hear your future self tell you, it, it hits a little different.

10:56

And with things changing so quickly, AI’s changing so quickly and the the workplace changing so quickly, people being laid off and we’ve gotta restructure the organization and, and how do we get the team motivated and how do we do this? And we’re all thinking about all these things that we need to do, but we’re so focused externally. We’re never thinking about what do I need to do? What do I need to do as a leader to get my people to think differently?

11:20

You can’t force ’em to think differently. They have to do this through an exercise. You have to bring them through it. How do you prioritize these things?

11:27

You know,  I just give feedback for an article in terms of wellness, how,  you know,  everybody wants to prioritize wellness. Uh,  we talk about it at work, we talk about wellness at work, we talk about all these things, but it’s never a priority, right? We prioritize the things that are really important out of wellness is really important. You have to prioritize it.

11:44

That’s your accountability to yourself. How is that the first thing that you do every day? If learning is your priority, how are you learning every day? And I’ve had had clients who have started every meeting, like,  if you wanna talk about wellness and you wanna prioritize wellness on your team, every team meeting should start with what are you doing to make yourself well?

12:04

And that’s the first question, go around. And if it becomes the habit and everybody’s thinking about it, everybody knows they’ve gotta come to that meeting talking about what’s making them well or not well, or I need help with something, or whatever it is. Suddenly when it’s top of mind and it becomes a priority, that’s how the things change. So often we start these initiatives and, and it’s always secondary to getting the business done, but when we realize that well employees make good business decisions and we could prioritize this, the first thing, it’s a five minute exercise at the beginning of a meeting, or what are you learning today?

12:35

Or, or what is a question that you have that somebody else could be meaningful for? I do the Adam Grant thing, giving and taking. Everyone has to give something and take something.  You know,  what are we teaching our employees and our teams and ourselves? How is this,  you know,  we think about presence, we think about reflecting in the morning, we think about meditation, we think about all these things, but there is an action that has to happen, and it’s our responsibility to do that. And so it was a nice exercise to go through, to write the TED talk, to write the whole kind of story of my philosophy on what I need from a wellness perspective that I think could be relevant to other people on that framework that people can use to, to ask these questions of ourselves.

13:13

That’s, that’s the fun part. And so look out for it. It’ll be coming up soon. I hope you enjoy it. I would love your feedback on it. Um,  and that’s, yeah, that’s just me spitting a little bit.

13:25

And I’m gonna get back into the habit of doing these podcasts. Um,  I’ve got some just interesting things that I’ve been reading about how we’re misinterpreting empathy and, um,  how do you finish things. And so these are all gonna be topics I’m gonna be talking about in the next few weeks. And, uh,  I look forward to it. And if you want me to cover anything, I’m happy to do it. But there’s,  you know,  I, it’s funny, I go through these cycles of doing podcasts for a period, and then I go back not doing podcasts because I’m going back learning and thinking about other things, and then I can reinvent and do, uh,  more, more topics to talk about. So if there’s anything you want me to cover, I’m happy to do it, um,  because it, it seems to be resonating, which is nice. So, uh,  have a wonderful week. Look out for the TED Talk.

14:04

Remember, what, what can you do to be accountable to yourself and what can you learn for yourself? This was a quick one. And, and, um,  more to come. Lots more to come. There’s so much to learn and so much to focus on and so much to do.

14:14

So, uh,  as always, I’m here to help. Feel free reach out. I’m happy to help you in any kind of way that I can. And, uh,  enjoy your week and I will talk to everybody soon. Thanks. Have a good week. Bye.

That feeling you’ve got? The one where you think it’s stress and frustration? I’ll re-frame it … for many, it’s fear and anxiety, otherwise known as vulnerability. 

So many words, I know. But if you know me, you know I talk about the change thing constantly, and we have a slight luxury in the fact that we can recognize things are changing faster than we can keep up … so we are able to create a strategy to adapt. 

But while creating our individual strategies, we also could use a little direction. We crave direction; there is comfort in someone telling us that things are going to be OK. Like JFK telling us we can get to the moon, we, as a society, need someone to help quell the anxiety, recognize our vulnerability, and charge us up to get to the next level. 

And while there is no shortage of experts telling you HOW you are supposed to be (without context), there is a glaring gap in the category of “gurus we can trust.” Everyone seems to be selling this fix or that fix, or promote ideas that are self-serving to their ego. It’s rare to find someone who can balance the “what’s best for everyone” with their own self interest in an appropriate way. 

It takes transparency, conscience, altruism, and trust. And while we develop ourselves and build – this trust difficult to come by. 

Now, it’s easy to state that “other people should be shining examples for us.” We can’t dictate what public figures should be, while not expecting them to do it to us. However, these people exist already, and it’s up to us to find them. It’s our responsibility to filter the noise that coming to us as we create our strategies. We click the follow or unfollow button. And as we look to get our influence and developmental information, remember this: garbage in; garbage out. 

So – this week, rethink the info you are getting; and if the people you follow are really worth following. There is are obligations that come with being a public figure; yet many seem to neglect or ignore this. Self-interest and promotion often conflict with what’s best for the audience. 

SO – that’s the thought this week … good luck with it … and have a great time cutting back the follow list.

Ohhhhh the AI thing. It’s bananas. It’s crazy. It’s going to destroy humanity. And it’s so much fun. 

Today’s podcast – how AI will affect the future of work. But not in a bloviating, imaginary way, which is how much of the AI discussion is happening (paired with doom and gloom of the end of the world). But more of a measured, tangible and smart way to approach it, from corporate leadership to the individual being affected. 

It’s not hyperbolic to say that AI is similar to the rise of human life on earth. That sounds wild, but it’s also accurate. This is a pivotal point not just in the workplace, but in how society operates. It’s not going away. On board yet? Good. Let’s get to the bigger things. 

Those bigger things include YOU. AI has been around for a while, behind a nice user experience model (thanks, Google!) that has allowed for some adoption. With the explosion of ChatGPT, many people are rushing to dictate and use some AI models to influence what they are looking for. 

Initially, this will create a lot of noise in the marketplace (“Robot – write me a blog!”), but as we get past the newness of this, it will then influence workplaces in larger, more dynamic ways. 

What’s important to note here, and this is the crux of the podcast, is that while AI will change everything about work, it’s up to us, as individuals, to control our positioning in this new world. 

Yes, corporate leadership is looking at how to leverage AI (and they should). But you, as an individual, should be spending your time learning about it and using it, because without doing so, you will be left behind. 

We all have a lot to learn … AI is no exception. Your future is dictated by choices today. More to come on AI, but here is a good start.

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I’m Jim Frawley, and this is Bellwether. Welcome to Bellwether. Thank you for being here. Episode 116, 17, something like that. We’re talking about ai. If I had my robot working, I’d know what episode it was. Um, <laugh>. Let’s talk about AI in the future of work. It’s not something that we can ignore. It’s something that I’ve wanted to talk about for a long time on the podcast. I’ve talked about it a little bit, but I haven’t really done a dedicated episode on it.

Uh, I speak a lot to clients about it. I speak a lot to non-clients and audiences about it, and it’s, um, it’s a very exciting time. This is great. Um, what I wanna cover today, I’m gonna give you just a brief overview to level set because there’s a lot of noise flying around in terms of what AI is and how it’s transforming and all of that good stuff. Let’s talk about how AI is affecting work today.

Let’s talk about how it’s work affecting you and work tomorrow. And then we’re gonna wrap it up in a nice little bow and, and we’re gonna set you off on your way and it’s gonna be great cuz you’re gonna be ready to deal with it. Um, here’s, here’s just a level set on ai and what I think about ai. This is, I’ve heard it said this way before and I completely agree with it.

It’s similar to the rise of human life on earth. And that’s not hyperbolic. Like this shit is legit and crazy and important and huge and it will not go away. And so we can’t really put our head in the sand. Can’t put your head in the sand. Silly ostrich. You have to embrace it. You have to adjust to it, and you have to get prepared for it. And right now it’s kind of irrelevant, right?

It’s all just doing small tasks that it can do for you. Is, is the way most people have imagined it. Social media content and writing kids books and creating pictures and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And basically it’s just being used to create noise. That’s all it is. It’s just a lot of noise. We’re seeing all the social media content, apparently. It’s also writing Valentine’s Day cards. That’s great. We’re using it in these little things.

Creating your meal plan and your workout plan and all this stuff. And there’s all kinds of things that you can do, uh, where it’s basically gonna compile information and it, and it’s great. Okay? That’s wonderful. Uh, but this will evolve and grow. And it’s starting to do that into ways that have much more meaning. And that’s what I wanna talk about today. I want to talk about that much more. Meaning let’s chat about you and let’s go.

All right? Because this affects everybody and full stop. This affects everybody. Um, and so, so that’s it. So let’s talk about the current state, right? It’s creating noise. A lot of industries have already embraced ai. They’re doing work with it. It’s not, it’s been around for a lot of auto automation. Google’s been doing it. Think about your maps and all these types of things. The apps, it’s been around, it’s made life easier.

The challenge AI has always had is we, I mean, this has been talked about for decades. The challenge has been human adoption and user experience was the big play for ai. And Google was very good about that. And they’ve done it. Apple’s very good about it. Um, but now it’s kind of evolved. Humans have caught up a little bit. And so now it’s, you know, the timing is ripe for this kind of thing.

And, and ai, uh, OpenAI and chat, G p t and all that stuff is, you know, we feel like we’re ready to jump in. And this is kind of the new one, and it’s just the starting point, but it’s been around for, for a long time. So, um, and OpenAI has been around for a long time. They’ve done a lot of work too that, that you’re probably familiar with. So, um, a lot of misconceptions about ai.

Um, but I think the reason we have so many misconceptions is because we don’t fully appreciate the scale of what’s possible with ai. Most of us are just kind of getting, catching up and getting up to it. The people who have been really knee deep and and arms deep in AI for the past, you know, bunch of years can talk about this scale. Will it destroy humanity? Some will say yes, I think probably not.

We’re adaptable people or we’re at least 50 years out from that as it goes. Um, <laugh>. But, uh, but AI will make life fundamentally different within the next 10 years, if not five years, if not three years. And so what is important to remember is that humans are adaptable and it’s very unsettling. AI is very, very unsettling in the workplace and what it’s going to happen. And will we remain relevant for our individual, right?

There’s the macro and the micro and we’re gonna talk about individuals and everything else. A lot of people are going to be left behind in this. And so I don’t want that to happen to you. I want you to be, uh, I want you to be there, but we are adaptable. Um, some people are not. And that’s a fact and that’s gonna be harsh. And there’s going to be a, um,uh, a feeling of, you know, we’re being left behind and we’re gonna fight it and we’re gonna stick to the old way.

So if you’re thinking about the old way and how you want to clinging to it and do that, you’re probably gonna be one of those people who are gonna be left behind. And that’s a fact. And that adds more fear. And so that’s why we fight. And we say we don’t, don’t take this away from me and all of this. This is societal change problems that we’re gonna have to discuss and deal with, but we’re gonna keep it just to, you know, we’re gonna keep it to the workplace and, and talk about that.

So what I would encourage you to do is embrace it, don’t fight it, um, and learn it and get really, really good with it. Because this is, this is the future of ai and it’s the future of work and it’s, it’s going to change everything. So let’s talk about benefits cuz we’re just ripping through this. This is, I’m gonna try and do this episode in less than 15 minutes, um, and tell you everything you need to know in 15 minutes.

Um, potential benefits. Let’s talk about the benefits of ai. One, increased productivity and efficiency. That’s the easy play. That’s it. Um, this is a goldmine for businesses, goldmine for businesses. Um, however, at that same time, generally what’s a goldmine for a business is very uncomfortable for individuals. And that’s something we need to remember. So it will make you productive, it will make you more efficient and will do all of these types of things.

But what does that mean for you, the individual? And we have to kind of figure that out. So businesses are going to invest heavily in AI because AI will supplement the 25% of workers they’re going to keep while they shed 75%. And the money is going to, you know, filter up the top. That’s what businesses do. We can resent it, we can hate it, we cannot like it, but that’s just a fact.

And it’s the way the world goes and that’s the way life exists and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So, um, companies are looking at how to utilize AI in different types of ways, and they are going to lay off people. People are expensive, they’re slow, they make mistakes. AI does not so well yet, you know,you know,you know where I’m going to. So, so that’s that. You’ll hear a line about how you’re gonna have increased job satisfaction with ai, um, <laugh>, and it’s a nice little PR pitch.

You know what some people will, some people will, a lot of people won’t. And here’s why. Um, AI is going to eliminate all the mundane tasks that we have to do. Great. So let’s talk about job satisfaction and mundane. There is comfort in the mundane. There is comfort on the days that we wanna mail it in at work and we just kind of push papers and we just do whatever and we’re like, okay, and I did some work and whatever, I’m kind of mailing it in today and that’s it.

Um, and so we like that. However, the question is, will that keep us up to pace with everybody else, right? So the, this is going to force us to kind of go, go, go, go, go. We’ll use AI to do this and we’re gonna create more. We’re gonna use AI to do this. We’re gonna create more, we’re gonna do more. We’re gonna do more. We’re gonna do more. And that’s exhausting. That’s exhausting.

Um, if I go through one more, there’s a flower shop. I mean, I keep meaning to take a picture of, you know, work hard today. So tomorrow’s great and it’s kind of this go, go-go mentality, really driven by the coaching industry about this growth mindset. And we have to do more and we could do more today to fix tomorrow. And it is exhausting. Okay? So, um, we have comfort in the mundane that’s going to be eliminated because AI could do a force and it should, okay?

But it’s not gonna mean that we could just sit around and do nothing. We’re going to replace it by creating more work based on this AI and do that. So, um, job satisfaction does not come from the mundane. We have to talk about that as well. So yes, AI will eliminate the mundane and increase job satisfaction. That actually means the same thing. Here’s what I mean by that. Job satisfaction comes from creating work.

Job satisfaction comes from ownership of something that you wish to accomplish and seeing it come to fruition, that’s job satisfaction. If we eliminate the mundane tasks and just get assigned more of stuff we don’t really want to own, we don’t really want to do, that’s not really, AI’s not really going to help job satisfaction. So what we have to do is change our thinking and change our mindset, which we’ve talked about on this podcast before about creating work and creating ideas.

And that is, you know, when we clear out the mundane, it’s actually a good thing, but we need to refill it with something that’s not bs. And that’s what we have to, that’s the human thing that we have to figure out for us. Each individual is what are we going to create and not just be a passive, all right, well this is done. What are you gonna give me to do now?

And yes, boss, please give me more work. The, the days of being just a passive observer, endurer, I can’t say they’re over, but it’s not gonna be solved by ai because if you’re just gonna let it be replaced with more of this mundane and you know, just get assigned stuff and do stuff that you don’t actually want to do, then you’re just gonna be just as miserable as you are today. So that’s life.

Welcome, welcome to it. Something I learned way too late and we’ll see more people take the risk of being entrepreneurs and all of this type of stuff. It’s very, very difficult to do, but we have to make this effort and see fruition. That’s purpose. That’s meaning, that’s exactly what, you know, everybody claims to want, but it takes work to get there and that’s not really what everybody wants to do. Um, so that’s that.

So when we think about benefits of ai, increased productivity for the business, yes, painful for the individual, but what’s good for the individual is the elimination of mundane tasks. You’re gonna lose that comfort. But if you’re open to it, we have to create more work and do those like really human things to challenge it and make AI reach its full potential so that we could do those things together. Um, there will be new opportunities for work in AI for those in your fifties, you’re probably a little too late, let’s be honest.

You’re not really going to adapt to it, but there is a major transition time. Okay? So when I say that is what, what, what do new job opportunities look like? We generally think about kids coming out of college and how can they code and program and do these different types of things? Fine, but you can’t have new jobs and programs until you understand how to use it first. And so that’s step one.

Rather than worrying about what’s 10 years down the road about will I be relevant, start today, play with ai. It’s free open. AI is free to play with, play with it. Learn the new ways of thinking and how to adopt it and come up with new ideas. That is new opportunity right there. So when you’re looking to build something and, and how does AI come in and how do people come into it?

It’s emerging of two capabilities. What can you think up and how can you think about these things in new ways? And how can AI execute on this and challenge and elevate it and do it in more, do it in more unique creative, different types of ways. That’s what’s going to be relevant in the workplace, at least in the short term. And when I say short term in the next decade. So yes, new opportunities are going to be here.

It’s up to you to learn it. Okay? You’re watching TikTok videos of all these people doing these new things and you know, that’s great and you say, oh, that’s cool, and then you don’t do anything. Uh, you’re gonna be left behind, right? You actually have to practice this and do it. It could be anything. Write me a marathon training plan, write me, you know, all those things I said at the beginning, those silly little, you know, whatever.

See what output you get. If it’s not good enough, then you have to change it the way you ask it and give it different types of parameters. We’re thinking in terms of parameters, we’re thinking in terms of theory, and then how do you give really specific direction and expectations so the robot can understand it. This has implications on interpersonal skills as well. So these are the types of things that we have to learn today.

And it’s a fun exercise. It’s actually a lot, a lot of fun to do that. So when we think about opportunity, that’s one of the things that we have to do there too. Um, let’s talk about skills, right? Cause I’m getting to the 15 minutes. I might go to to 20. I’ve got an outline and I’m, I’m blasting through and you know, sometimes I could go deeper. If you want me to go deeper, I’m happy to do that and reach out and I will go really, really deep.

Most people don’t pay attention for 45 minutes, so that’s why I don’t do it. Um, let’s talk about the skills that are gonna be in high demand, okay? As we just talked about that transition to learning AI and all of that, um, there are a couple things we have to learn about skill sets. AI is ultimately the result of human work. Okay? That’s it. It compiles it thinks it, spits it back out, and that’s it, it’s a lot of those, those types of things for now, okay?

Um, skills that will be in high demand in how you could do it. The first, you know, as I think about it, and I wrote this down and I hate this term, but growth mindset, um, learning new skills. We hear this a lot. We need a growth mindset and we need to be thinkers and blah, blah, blah. How that manifests is difficult. Creating a growth mindset. Most people don’t know how to digest this.

Creating a growth mindset’s kind of like work on your listening skills. It sounds nice, doesn’t mean shit, okay? It doesn’t mean anything unless you give it meaning. So we need, basically what growth mindset means, is we need to ask a lot of questions and assume we don’t know the answer. That’s growth mindset in a nutshell. Okay?Um, it means not having any answers, it means losing your assumptions. That’s where we have to, we have to strip ourselves down here.

That’s growth mindset is not building on what we have from the past, but stripping it away and learning what to ignore so that we could be open to new ideas in the future. Um, I have more and more conversations, personal conversations, not necessarily work conversations with more and more people who are getting much more aggressive in, in having the right answer and being right. And I recognize that this is just a fear of what’s happening, right?

They just spit out what they heard either on a news channel or, or something else. They have no context. They have this belief that they’re trying to pass off as truth because they’re trying to hold onto an old idea because they’re unsure of what’s coming next. Growth mindset. We have to shift and shed those assumptions and lose it and be open to the fact that maybe somebody’s got something better than what we think.

That is incredibly important today. So that’s that. Um, it’s basically insecurity, okay? I mean, that’s when we hold onto these old ideas, it’s, it’s an important thing holding onto these old ideas. It’s insecurity in its purest form, okay? So shed those, those assumptions and do that human-based skills, what makes you uniquely human are going to be incredibly important. Yes, we could talk about empathy and we could talk about, um, all those things, but real creativity is a human skill.

Interpersonal skills, problem solving, right? It’s ultimately, um, we still need humans. AI is still ultimately the result of human thought. Okay? So how can we be creative with using AI and elevating these types of things? AI is supportive. How we interact with other humans is incredibly important. So sales, jobs, psychological work, um,you know, all of these types of skills are gonna be very, very important in the workplace. We should be working on those.

Get out and meet more people, be more social, right? We don’t have to, this isn’t like you have to go back to school and, and take these classes. It’s literally interpersonal. Learn how to have a conversation. Again, get out and network. How do you strike up? Strike up small talk. I hate small talk, but we still have to do it. It makes us part of a bigger world. These types of skill sets that we have to kind of say what makes us human, other people and our relationships make us human.

And that’s what do we create and how do we think about new ideas and all of these types of things that’s humanity and that’s really, really good. Um, and facilitators, facilitators are going to be important, right? When we think about project management, getting things done, how do we finish things? AI will be doing work, but project management’s much more than just Excel sheets and, uh, Trello boards and all that stuff. It’s about working with people to get things finished.

And that’s project management and that’s gonna be, you know, very important. Um, and the ability to think, we have to think that skillset has gone away. It’s a very kind of flighty kind of statement, but the, the ability to think has gone away because we haven’t had to think over the past few years. A lot of people will jump in and tell you what to think, but we haven’t had to think over the past few years.

Technology has kind of muffled that quite a bit. And so how do we think and, and encourage this philosophical, you know, how do you become philosophical? How do you think this is, you know, every day just pick a different random question and just think it through to till it’s just beaten into the ground. We should be able to think not about what’s right, but what’s possible. Um, and those are the skill sets.

So as we go in, what are we at here? 17 minutes. Sorry, I’ll wrap it up in like two and a half minutes here. I’ll do it under 20. Overcoming the challenges. There will be challenges to ai. Change is uncomfortable. Um, and the ultimate goal, I guess for, for government, for business is to make this transition as smooth as possible for the people. That’s your role right now. So that I’m speaking now to the businesses, to the government.

That’s, that’s that employee prep begins. Now, even if you’re planning to cut your workforce by 50, 60, 70%, which is going to happen by the way, people, that’s going to happen in the next bunch of years. Um, people staying still need the skillset, okay? And as you train these employees and teach these employees these new ways of thinking, more roles and divisions will come up. So you may not have to actually lay off all of those people that you can manifest and build your businesses in different types of ways.

So some of these skills, the educating of your employees and the training of your employees, these are skillsets we don’t typically think of in the workplace of skillsets. We have to teach belief systems. How do you articulate what you believe? This isn’t the typical kind of corporate top down. This is the messaging I want you to have. How do you get people comfortable with expressing their ideas? That is a skillset that we have to teach.

Um, how do you articulate question thinking? How do you think and reframe ideas? This is the new type of, of educating that we have to do. And that’s something to invest in today so that AI can, people know how to use the ai. This is part of your business transition. This is part of your people strategy. PS this is exactly what we do. So you can call us and we’ll just, we can make it easy for you.

We know exactly what to do. We’ve got the program, we’ve got the set, we could do this. Um, and so that’s it. So AI in a nutshell, as we’re wrapping up here, coming up on my 20 minutes, this is a lot to take in, A lot to take in. AI is going to basically what I’ve just told you in the past 20 minutes, AI is gonna fundamentally change everything on this planet.

Um, if you don’t embrace it, you’re gonna be left behind. This all sounds very, very dark, but there is possibility. We are adaptable, we are unique, we are special snowflakes, we have capability, but it’s going to take work, okay? On the business side, business owners, business leadership, this is an investment you have to make for your employees. It’s going to help your business. It’s going to change your business. It’s necessary for your business.

It’s an investment. It’s a new line on the balance sheet. You’re gonna have to do it from people. You’re gonna have to do the work. You’re gonna have to create, you have to understand ai. That’s your responsibility. It’s to get yourself ready so that you’re relevant to the workplace so that people are going to want to hire you and people, people are going to want to retain you. This is a point where we’re going to see a bifurcation in society, in the workplace, everything where there’s the people who understand it, the educated and the people who don’t.

Okay? So this is very, it’s a very, very important time. The bifurcation is going to happen soon. You could do it. I believe in you. I’m here to help. Reach out anytime. Good luck with ai. Good luck with the world <laugh>, and here’s your, your big nugget for everything. Um, I’ll touch on this more, right? I’ll, I’ll do more podcasts on AI in the future of work. It’s going to be so big.

We, we can’t ignore it. We have to embrace it. So good luck with it. I’m here to help. Reach out anytime and I’ll talk to everybody very soon. Thanks for listening. Thank you so much for listening. Now, do something for yourself. Bellweather is much more than just a podcast. Join us@bellweatherhub.com where you can read riveting articles, view upcoming events, and connect with other interesting people. I look forward to seeing you out there soon.

I recently took an Ayahuasca journey - eight days at Spiritquest Sanctuary in Iquitos, Peru. As requested, I've recounted the journey -from what Ayahuasca is, to why I picked Spiritquest and how the Amazon tradition was helpful, right on through the visions and the purging.

Spicy headline? Yes. 

I will kick this off with this statement: diversity and inclusion in the workplace has become not only increasingly relevant in recent years, but increasingly important as well, and for good reason. A diverse and inclusive workplace not only benefits the employees who work there, but the organization as a whole. Research shows that diverse organizations are more profitable, resilient and successful than those that haven’t quite caught up to modern times.

That said, there is an undercurrent that is hushed and not spoken about in the open as much as it should, and that’s what’s to do with the white men in the office. Because traditionally, when we talk D&I, we aren’t talking about the white guys. 

Much more detail in the podcast, but there is an emotional challenge for men, who had expectations of promotions and ongoing success, that feel that they now have opportunities denied them. 

It’s a touchy subject to bring up, and while some would say, “yep, tough life,” others would say that there are better ways of going about it. 

It’s a perfect example of macro change inflicting specific challenges onto micro situations. But while we should encourage more Diversity and Inclusion programs, we should also encourage the dialogue to ensure that resentment doesn’t build within the organization. 

Stats, examples, details on the episode – would love your commentary – and look forward to chatting soon!

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Welcome to Bellwether. Thank you for being here. Episode 115, what are we gonna do with all the white guys in the office? Very hyperbolic, very spicy hyperbolic title. I know I’m gonna go with it. Apologize for the cold, please bear with me while I do it. Um, yes, spicy topic. There’s a lot of white guys in the office. This is not an attack on white guys. This is actually a serious thing that, uh, I’ve talked to a lot of clients about.

And this is, um, there’s this undercurrent that we need to address. Um, I’m gonna kick this off by saying diversity and inclusion programs are necessary. They are great. They’re not only increasingly relevant, but they’re increasingly important. And we’re learning a lot about what’s, you know, what can change in the office and what’s possible with a more diverse workforce. And, um, how much benefit a really diverse workforce brings. And, uh, companies and individuals working in diverse workforces are, are more productive.

They’re more profitable, they’re more, uh, culturally aligned. The culture’s more dynamic. The measurement is there, the science is there. It’s all very, very good. And I love the diversity and inclusion programs that are going on. That’s great. So research is there definitely worth it. Definitely important. We still have a lot of work to do. That said, there is an undercurrent, this little hush hush kind of not spoken about really in a certain type of way, as, as much as it should, is what are you doing with the white guys in the office?

Because when we’re talking about diversity and inclusion programs and diversifying leadership and diversifying the things that really matter, when we talk about diversity, the first thing that comes to your mind is generally not a white guy, <laugh>. Um, and the the philosophy behind that is that, look, and I had a conversation a long time ago, Eileen Scully was on, she wrote a book, um, she wrote a book about the, uh, the workplace and, and women in the workplace.

And basically what she said on the, the, the podcast, which resonated with me, is everything about work was built by white men. Okay? And that doesn’t work for everybody. And now, as the world’s changing and catching up and doing all of these types of things, um, we need to, it’s not set up for women. It’s not set up for black people. It’s not set up, you know, it’s not just creating work.

There’s an environment within which we work. And so that’s evolving and that’s changing, and it’s very, very good. It needs to change. Um, workplace and leadership has traditionally been run by white guys, right? And there have been some, you know, and I I’m saying white guys, it’s mostly men. Uh, we’re seeing more, if you take a look at leadership teams, right? The head of HR is generally a woman. The head of legal is generally a woman, but exceptions, you know, obviously exist.

But if you take a look macro at the, the world, it’s, most CEOs are men and most COOs are men. And, um, and that’s CFOs are men. And that, that’s it, right? And it’s, it’s not that it’s been intentional, okay? I wanna make sure that that’s kind of Dr. It’s not this intentional kind of, well, this is the white guy club and you’re not allowed to be in it, even though it’s kind of presented that way.

If we take a look back over how these things just happened to evolve, right? Women weren’t in the workplace because they, we didn’t really have the technology to, you know, there was the kid thing and all of that. And women are taking control and changing their priorities on that. And, and either waiting later to have children or now there are more, you know, workplaces caught up starting to catch up in terms of allowing women to have children and do that balance thing.

And, you know, society is changing that type of way. Um, the black people coming into the workplace, that’s a whole different challenge. Um, which we still have more progress to do on that. Um, right? It’s just, I mean, that’s, they’ve always been left out, whether subconsciously or not, um, from golf clubs to work clubs, they’re just, you know, they haven’t been there. And so we’re making important inroads on that, and that’s good.

Um, so any diverse group, I guess it’s just kind of the way that it evolved. For right or wrong, some people did bad things, some people just were negligent and didn’t pay attention or just didn’t care, right? And, and that’s just the way it is. But let’s talk about today, um, because we’re making progress and that’s great. Um, and the situation we have today, we’re making inroads and that’s great. Here’s my challenge.

Well, it’s not my challenge because I have my own business, but the challenge I have with some of my clients, um, and they’ll remain nameless. Companies will remain nameless, but there is, um, I mean, if you take a look at my, the population of my clients, I’ve got the businesses and we’re doing good kind of future of people work and all of that stuff. We don’t really talk about diversity and inclusion.

I’m a white guy. Nobody wants to listen to a white guy talk about diversity and inclusion. Um, so I don’t even kind of go there, but we talk about how do you structure your people and all of that kind of, you know, beyond any of who those people are. Just let’s talk about in terms of, you know, logic and, and everything else. We could worry about that other stuff later. Then my individual coaching clients, you know, they’re working with me, they wanna get to the C-suite they’re doing, and they’re probably half men, half women.

Um, it’s really split down the middle. But then out of the guys, uh, actually out of all of them, it’s mostly white people because there’s mostly white people at work. And, you know, I do have different races that I work with and everything else, but when I think about the guys that I work with, it’s mostly white guys, and they’re looking to get up into the C-suite and do all of these things.

I mean, there there is this segment of middle management or upper middle management, whatever you wanna do it. Um, it’s white guys. They, they, um, they, they look at corporate leadership, they look at the change and they see what’s happening and they’re losing the motivation to go forward because they don’t see a future. And here’s my thesis statement. I’m gonna make the thesis statement now, then I’m gonna talk a little bit more.

Oh, I just lost my pen. Um, when you make inroads to diversity inclusion, which is good, these opportunities were never afforded people before, right? The women coming up through the workforce in the eighties and the nineties, um, dealt with some crazy bs, didn’t have the real opportunities afforded to them. You had to be like a vicious person in order to get there. And, um, and then that created new problems in terms of, you know, type of person you are and everything else.

Um, so the opportunities weren’t really there. They’re there now and that’s great, and they’re excited and that’s wonderful and they should be, and that’s fantastic. People of other races, right? Black people, everyone else, same thing. Opportunity wasn’t really there. We’re finally, you know, people are starting to pay attention. Probably say, Hey, you know what? Diversity is a good thing. This is all kind of stupid. The way that we’ve set it up.

Let’s move it forward. Opportunity is there that wasn’t there before. This is great. They’re excited, they’re doing it. There’s investment and there’s groups and there’s all kinds of stuff for women and, and for, uh, everybody. And that’s excellent. White men came up, and I don’t know if this is generational, uh, because it may be done by the time, like the millennials get through it. So it could only be like a short term challenge, uh, came up with the expectation assumption that they were going to keep working and working hard, and they would have promotions and they could work towards promotions and do all of that.

That’s been taken away in some instances. And I’ll give more kind of details on that in a little bit. And so it’s not, that opportunity hasn’t been there, it’s opportunity feels like on an emotional level, it’s being taken away. And this is on an individual basis, okay? So at a macro level, yes, we need more diversity, right? But simple math will tell you there’s only a set number of leadership positions. And so we gotta change the dynamic.

And so the conversation that’s happening is, um, I should have gotten that role. I can’t because they’re not gonna put a white guy in that role. Um, whether they should or shouldn’t perceive it that way, you know, we could talk about that and, and we’ll talk about that a little bit. I’ve been in meetings, here’s, you know, perfect example. I had a client who was up for a promotion, should have gotten it, was told by his boss, like, go in for this job.

We’re gonna be redoing things. Like, this is you, you’re the perfect guy for it. He was incredibly well suited for it. Um, and then they said, well, we have to open it up. So they opened it up and the HR person told him that he asked for an update on what the job thing was, um, that this is a quote, we didn’t get any women of color to apply for it, so we’re putting the job on hold.

And now this is a major role. They can’t really put this role on hold, but they’re putting it on hold. There are no in this industry and, and job type, I don’t know. I asked him, you know, are there women of color in this? Right? And he’s like, no, I don’t know anybody. Like this is not, it’s just not there, right? So it’s a misguided kind of attempt at just saying, we have to put a person in here and there’s a misinterpretation of the way that diversity’s supposed to work.

And so now he’s not getting the job, the job is being shelved. And, and, and that’s it. And so now he looked at me and he’s like, Jim, am I done? He goes, I think I’m finished. I’ve invested. I mean, he’s in his early fifties. I I’ve invested my time, I’ve done done all of this stuff. He said, if I can’t, like this was my natural next, this is where I was supposed to go.

And I guess I’m, I guess I’m finished. Um, now outside of the HR person, probably shouldn’t have said that, obviously. Uh, but I’ve been on calls where the execs said, there’s no way we’re putting a white guy in that, in that position. And the HR person goes, you can’t say it that way. You know, you gotta say it this way. Uh, <laugh>, you say it like this. I remember sitting in, in finance, uh, person up there said, you know, our priority this year is to only promote women.

And every guy just basically pulled out their phone and said, who else is hiring? Right? Like, I guess I’m, I’m not getting a promotion this year. And so there’s this semantics of, right. They didn’t say it the way they should have said it, but like, we all know what it means. And the guys are like, well, what about me? Right? So macro, and here’s the funny thing, most white guys are for it.

Most guys are for the diversity and inclusion and everything, and they wanna mentor. And, um, and here’s the funny kicker about the one client he sponsored and started the diversity and inclusion thing at the workplace. Um, he was a white guy, but he said, this is really important and he championed it and everything else. And, and, uh, now he feels like it’s burning him. Um, now it’s emotional versus logic. And, and we’ve got all of these types of things and, and we have these assumptions.

And, um, and so, so we have to think about how this evolves and how do you at least engage these men in conversation to say, look, you still have value. There still is a future, right? The macro thing is very important, but on an individual micro level, people will say, well, what about me? Right? I agree with that. You know, it’s like, I, I want speed bumps in the neighborhood, but don’t put it in front of my house, right?

<laugh>, and, you know, I don’t wanna listen to that. Um, I feel like, and I, I feel like this is short term, the more I think about this, right? It’s, it’s a generation X, not really baby boomers, they’re kind of done, they’re out of the office and they’re, they’re, um, just hoarding their money and doing whatever. But, uh, most boomers are kind of gone. We’re in the Gen X world now. It’s a Gen X challenge, it’s a millennial challenge after that, GenZ and all that other stuff, they’ve, they’re growing up in a different type of, um, a different type of world.

And so, um, I hate to present a problem and not have solutions, but this is a topic that I’m, I’m talking to a lot of people about, uh, just write an amazing book called Men Without Work. Apparently something like almost 20% of able-bodied men are out of the workforce, not even looking for job. They’re not even included in unemployment numbers. They’re out of the workforce and, um, not looking for a job, which is insane to me, right?

And so where are these people going? And I was looking through the data and reading the book, and they said, well, you know what, more women came into the workplace, which is good. So we don’t see that there’s less people and you know, this whole shift. But now we’ve got a societal issue where you have no motivation, no type of work. A lot of the research in terms of happiness surveys and everything, there was a, a, a male one that had happened years ago where what gives you energy?

All the women had answered it, you know, my family gives me energy. And, you know, all this above and beyond what gives you purpose and everything for men was my work. And if you take a look at suicide rates, the biggest suicide group are men over the age of 60. And a lot of people are tying them back to the fact that they don’t have work and they don’t have purpose. They’ve retired, they don’t know what to do with themselves.

They don’t, you know, there is this societal shift that’s happening and men have to figure it out. And when we take a look at, I have no future at this organization, you’re pushing the, the age limit. You know, what are the guys in their forties and fifties gonna do? Where, you know, when I’ve hit my ceiling, now I’ve got another 20 years in this role. I don’t wanna do that, right? Do I have to do a fundamental shift?

Do I have to do a fundamental change? I have to go to a new industry, like there’s, and look, life’s life sucks right there. There is this aspect to it. Welcome to life, it’s gonna hit you hard, wear a cup and move on. So there is kind of a little tough love that needs to happen. It’s not like we have to handhold all of these people. Um, but there is this psychological kind of thing.

And, and we know that men don’t like to talk about the stuff we don’t like, for a lot of reasons. Not because we can’t, but because we just don’t wanna burden other people with our problems. And, and we like to say, well, you should talk about it. Some guys just don’t want to. Um, but there are, by the way, if you are in this situation, you’re a guy listening to it, there are plenty of people who will talk to you about it and wanna talk to you about it, and we’ll help you articulate it.

And that’s, you know, there are challenges and opportunity and, but generally what we have to do is we kind of have to, we have to work through it, we have to articulate it, and we have to talk about it. Uh, so what can we do about this? This is, I’ll remind, um, and we could talk to leadership, we could talk to individuals, we could talk to anybody. But remember, this is an individual challenge.

It’s a weird one because it’s, the macro challenge is we don’t have enough diversity in the workplace, okay? And that’s a macro general look at the numbers. It’s true, it’s there. And so we have to fix that challenge. But on an individual level, uh, what’s my path and what does this mean for me? And the devil is in the details. And when we talk about macro change, we gotta talk about a micro individual.

Um, and some people in your ranks are getting very frustrated because they don’t feel like they have a path and they don’t know where they’re going to go. Um, when we take a look, last week I talked about ambition. Where’d the ambition go? Is we don’t know where we’re going, right? And this is kind of doubly true for, for the men. And so, um, I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, I’m saying it’s a challenge we have to deal with.

So first, I mean, the first thing I would say in terms of solutions, these probably aren’t the greatest solutions, but I’ll start the conversation, is number one, we have to recognize that this is a challenge, right? And you can’t just ignore it. When we’re putting together diversity and inclusion programs, we have to include white men in that, okay? Because it’s, there is this shift of what’s happening and, and they have value to bring it, and they’re very supportive of it.

But we have to recognize that this is an emotional challenge for men. Um, and we can’t coddle them and, and, you know, do it. There’s, there’s an appropriate way to do that, but we, we don’t, we gotta figure that out. So anyway, that’s one, I’ll just start my pen again. So that’s two pens. Um, number two, we have to foster dialogue if it’s possible, right? And, and this is a very difficult challenge to do.

I had a, um, <laugh>, a friend of mine does workshops, and they went in and, and these women went to the manager and they said, Hey, we want for the women’s group, we want a leadership development. This person come in and do it. And then says, look, you can do it, but then you also gotta do one for the guys, right? Like, if you want to do that, we’re gonna be equitable and try and do the right thing.

They said, fine. So the women’s leadership one was mobbed, nobody showed up to the men’s one. And the women are like, look, we gave a men’s one, nobody showed up. Um, but it was called Why your toxic masculinity is ruining the Office, or something like that. And so they created it for the men, but it was very <laugh>, right? So we have to be careful about the way that we’re accusing individuals, right?

We take this personally and we do this type of work. Um, so there is a right and wrong way to go about it. We have to be smart with the way that we, we talk about all of these things and, and we talk about it with, try to remove the emotion from it and just talk about the logical look. You’ve got a fruit salad that’s full of just, you know, cantaloupe. You gotta add strawberries and, and blueberries.

You might have to take some cantaloupe out of it, and that’s it. Then you have a good fruit salad. So that’s it. We want the flavor, we want the changes, we want diversity. And that’s, you know, it’s an important thing. And there’s still value that you can bring. And, and maybe we have to change the mentality of our people in terms of is it status, is it role title, is it, you know, do we change?

And, and this is the good work that we’re doing with, with the corporate clients, is we’re restructuring the way we think about people and the way we think about, um, accountability and agency and, and what people can do. And, um, so that will work itself out in the wash, but we still have to address it. Help them also as an idea to become agents of this change, to be involved with it.

Don’t just have this change thrust upon them, have them be active components of it. A lot of white guys are really into this and really wanna be helpful. And this is another way that we can, we can do, um, bring more value to diversity and inclusion programs, is that they do have a voice. And as we rethink the workplace, that can provide value as well. So, more to come on this and, and I have a lot more thoughts, and I’m gonna still articulate them.

I’m interested in yours. Um, but for leadership, recognize it’s a challenge. How we communicate it, how we share it, how we talk about it is incredibly important. It’s a delicate issue. Um, but most guys really can’t feel like they could talk about it. And so I’ll say for you, why not? Who cares? And let’s see what, let’s see what could come out of it. So, um, this is beyond talking points. It’s a big thing.

Good luck with it. I’m happy to talk more about it. I’m happy to talk about how we can accommodate them and bigger, um, and bigger types of discussions of people. And, and, uh, and as these diversity and inclusion programs do really, really good things, we can, we can figure out a solution for everybody. So good luck. Have a wonderful week and I’ll see you next week. Thanks.

It’s a hot topic, on multiple fronts: Where is the ambition? 

Organizations are working hard to “re-engage” their employees, based on the assumption that they should be excited to go “above and beyond.” Employees, and individuals in general, are fairly checked out – not sure where they should be focused or going on a personal level.

There are many obvious reasons for this: 

1. Burnout – on a major scale, beyond work. AI, society changes, and massive uncertainty have us constantly looking in the mirror trying to anticipate what’s coming. 
2. Priorities have shifted – the pandemic showed us what it was like to have time for dinner with our families. And we liked it. 
3. Our assumptions have been turned upside down – Before, going above and beyond wasn’t just in the pursuit of advancement – it was an obligation and expectation that above and beyond was the norm … and people are saying, “Hold Up!”
4. Finally, we don’t know where we are going – many of us are unsure of where to head, as the future of work and success is quite murky. 

Yes, the onus is on us to dictate our next steps, but we must do so in the context of a bigger picture. With so much change and uncertainty, we should focus less on making hard decisions, and focus more on creating the environment where we can throw out hopes and desires and see what’s possible. 

This can be done at home, at work, in communities. More on the podcast – enjoy!

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Welcome to Bellwether episode 114. Where has all the ambition gone? Lots to talk about today. It’s a hot topic. It’s a hot topic everywhere. Organizations are talking about it. The news is talking about it. We’ve been talking about it for a long time. People are starting to talk about it. They’re catching up and kind of realizing that their ambition is gone and what does that mean for them and where are they going to go.

There are a lot of different angles I’m gonna take today, and I want to kind of peel back the onion a little bit in terms of how to solve it, if it’s solvable, <laugh>, um, but then also what strategies people can employ to, to kind of get that little spark back and everything else. Um, I feel like it’s a Joan bias song where have all the ambitions gone. The, um, a couple of things I want to cover today just to kind of cue it up.

And then you could probably fast forward if you wanna fast forward or you could just listen to my musings throughout. I’m gonna chat about why. One, I think sentiment and priorities have changed. Two, um, people are realizing the work isn’t really what they thought it was going to be. Three, um, burnout of course we’re gonna cover today. And then four is this lack of direction. A lot of people have lost their assumptions and their, their lack of direction, their, they’re not quite sure where to go.

So I wanna talk about those in, in differing types of order. So, um, when we think about ambition, and this has been going on, you know, if you follow me on LinkedIn or any of the others, I’ve been sharing some of the articles. There was an article maybe a year ago, the Times had done it. Um, the Time Magazine wrote, uh, an article on it back in 2022. LinkedIn was just posting again about new studies about how self-reported ambition is just, you know, falling off a cliff.

Um, and it’s a difficult thing to measure, you know, how do we actually measure ambition? And, and a lot of it is just kind of this feeling. We’ve got this feeling that people aren’t really doing as much as they wanted to do, or, or pushing themselves in the same kind of way. It’s not the same as productive productivity, but it’s linked to productivity and some of the other statistics in terms of actual pro productive output.

What organizations and individuals and organizations are about to do. And I’ve covered this on a podcast, it’s going away. Productivity is gone and what’s actually happening, it’s not because people are working from home, although that might have something to do with it, but there are a lot of things going on in the different types of angles, uh, that, that we have to, that we have to cover. Burnout is one of them, of course.

Um, the pandemic has shown us what life is like without work being everything. And some of the questions, is this an American problem? Is this a global problem? I’m sure it covers both, but I’m gonna talk about it from the American perspective because hey, that’s where I am and that’s where most of my clients are. And that’s where a lot of, uh, a lot of other countries that I work with tend to look towards America towards this kind of work ethic, uh, philosophy because Americans are just known as, um,you know, the crazy people who work on weekends.

Um, the ambition question is coming up a lot from clients, and I’m gonna talk about this in two different ways. One is from an organizational perspective. One is from an individual perspective, from an organizational perspective, yes, productivity is down. Um, the idea of the pursuit of advancement and working hard in all of this, you know, how do we get employees engaged? We want to engage in employees so they can go above and beyond, and we could do all of these things.

Um, so a lot of organizations are feeling that pinch. They don’t know how to approach it. They’re trying to respond with, you know, do this webinar and do this training, and do this and do that. And they’re trying to just jam more things down the throne. It’s not the right approach, in my opinion. Um, and so how do you get them to do more than expected? Well, how do you create the desire to do more than expected from an individual perspective?

Why care <laugh>, right? What are we working towards? What are we getting jazzed about? I mean, this goes back to fundamental purpose conversations that every, you know, Tom, Dick and Harry coach is talking about, find your purpose. It’s not that simple. And many individuals are just kind of saying, well, what am I working towards? You know, I’m 45 years old, I gotta do this for another 25 years. I don’t wanna do this for another 25 years.

What am I working towards? The, the assumptions have changed, the future has changed, and I don’t quite know or see where I actually fit in. So why am I working so hard in this pursuit of advancement and ambition when I don’t know what the, the end game is going to be? So that’s where, that’s where we go first and foremost. Um, and this is fundamental to, to everything is all of our assumptions.

This is beyond the ambition question. All of our assumptions are upside down. And the assumptions on what we can accomplish for work, the assumptions on what our goals should be for work. You know, when I talk to business owners, you know, what should our priorities be this year? Where, what’s our one year, three year, five year plan, 10 year plan? It’s all very murky, okay? And so any assumptions we have on the way people are supposed to operate, the way people are supposed to be, the way business is supposed to run is really out the window right now.

And much of my advice to people is, one, we have to raise our expectations of ourselves and the people around us. Yes, from an interpersonal kind of way, but we have to eliminate assumptions, throw them out the window because anything that worked in the past is really irrelevant at this point. We can use this to inform whatever it is that we want to do, but any assumptions we have on why people would wanna pursue advancement, why people would wanna be ambitious, what drives people, what motivates people, all of this work is really out the window right now.

And we have to rethink it, reengage and re-discuss with our employees, with our leadership teams, with everybody in terms of what really matters right now. The context has changed. The work environment, the home environment, the community environment, the news environment, everything has changed. So priorities have shifted, everything has shifted. So now we need to kind of rethink what assumptions are we making, right? Training doesn’t fix everything, right? The old way of training, I should say, the old way of training doesn’t fix anything.

How do we get people more, uh, experiential in their learning? How do we get them to take ownership of their learning? How do we teach people to think in a different type of way? These are the types of questions that we should be asking. So, um, starting with this pursuit of advancement, we grew up, at least I did, and a lot of my peers, you know, you look at anybody in their mid forties where you were told work hard and everyone’s gonna notice and you’re gonna get rewarded and it’s gonna be great.

And everybody has kind of realized that that’s just kind of bunk. And, um, going above and beyond wasn’t just in the pursuit of advancement. It’s what was expected was an obligation. You just had to work Saturdays, right? Think back to office space. I’m gonna need you to come in on Saturday and you didn’t really have a choice. And people are starting to have a choice. People are starting to say, well, hold up, like, I got family time on the weekends now and I get to dictate this.

And you know, the technology has allowed us to communicate with other people in this different type of way to say, if these people can get their work life balance and all this kind of philosophical, uh, bs that, that we’ve talked about, um, why can’t I have it? And a lot of people are saying, what about me right now? So people are putting their hands up. We’re aware of the fact that, you know, I just posted this on LinkedIn the other day, and, uh, an old colleague of mine, Mike, basically made the point, you know, we know that work is in a family, work likes to talk about, you know,oh,you know what, we’re all a family here.

But that family kind of throws you under the bus when it’s time to lay off half your people. Um, and it’s just an objective thing, right? That we expect the employees to give everything, but when things get difficult, the business really has the upper hand. And that ultimately is what pays the bills for right or wrong, right? It’s not a good thing or a bad thing, right? At the end of the day, businesses exist to make money and we need people to work hard and we need to pay them appropriately and we need to do all of that stuff.

But, um, when we think about keeping a business alive right now, the business environment, the market environments have changed so much that leadership of organizations have two kind of pulling philosophies. They’re going for. One is, how do we make this business sustainable? So it still exists. A businesses exist to make money, we have to make money, and that’s it. But we also have human beings working for us. And what’s that balance and how do we get the best human beings to bring them into the organization?

And how do we create that environment? I’ve said this before, I’ll say it again. I would say probably 90% of organizations could be successful with half of their employees. And everybody needs to hear that. And if you’re not in that top 50%, you need to start figuring out what it’s going to take to get you into that 50%, to creating value in all of that. Um, so there’s an, this obligation of work has an obligation to articulate what their vision is, to develop their people, to create an environment for people to be successful.

But we as employees have an obligation to create value within that context, to challenge the norms to do that type of work. So pursuit of advancement, and I’m gonna circle back to this at the end because we don’t know what we’re advancing towards, um, is is not really the norm that it used to be. We used to have this assumption on pursuit of advancement. It’s not the same assumption that we can continue into 2023 and beyond.

So that’s number one. Uh, and that’s a big one. That’s a big number one, right? Pursuit of advancement isn’t what it used to be. Number two, priorities have shifted. And this kind of goes into the pursuit of advancement and kind of creating boundaries for what’s acceptable and what’s not, not being taken advantage of, uh, taken advantage of in the workplace over the last four years. We got a little taste of what it was like to spend time with our families, to have our weekends back, to sleep in, to kind of go read a book, to go do whatever.

And people really like it. People really, really like it. And for those people, they’re, you know, there’s different types of people there. The people who create work and the entrepreneurs, they’re still working the way that they used to work, but they have ownership of what it is they’re working towards. So they love it. And that’s what really drives entrepreneurship and that’s why they do it. You’ve got the other people working in, uh, organization who see a path for themselves and they’re working hard and they’re trying to push things over.

It’s very difficult for them because they have to rally other people to do it. And then there’s people who wait for work to happen to them. And those are the people who really like to kinda unwind and check out and everything else. And, and they need it and they should have it, right? Everybody needs their time to check out. Everybody’s checking out is a little bit different. Um, but when we think about priorities of what’s important, you know, I think, and this is American perspective, you take a look at Europe, Europe gets their months of August off in a lot of countries.

Europe gets this time with families. They’re done at, you know, different types and not everyone of course, right? There’s different types of industries and companies and everything else, but the American culture doesn’t really allow for taking time for yourself and it doesn’t allow for this family time. And, and part of it is a financial discussion of course, but there are other ones too in terms of what’s expected of you, the obligations you have when you sign off for a job.

And, and the way that work culture has been set up, this hustle, hustle culture that’s been going on since the eighties, the nineties, it’s continued straight through and people are starting to dictate what it is that they want. And the ones who have real value are able to kind of find that balance, but also continue to do work and work smartly. But priorities have shifted. So that’s kind of changing the ambition question of, you know what, maybe I don’t need to be in the C-suite.

Maybe just being a VP is good enough and I get my family time and how do I kind of make this work? I remember, uh, I remember applying for a job. I got the job, but there was a woman who interviewed me, she was gonna be on my team. And she said, how do you feel? She asked me, how do you feel about someone who doesn’t want a promotion? And I said, what do you mean?

And she said, I’m done. I don’t want to pursue more. I don’t wanna advance more. I’m happy. I’ve got my family. I don’t, don’t wanna keep working towards something new. I’m being pushed to work towards a promotion when I don’t really want a promotion because I’ve got this balance and everything and this is good for me. And of course I told her, you know, that’s awesome, right? Of course, my philosophy was always get your work done and you know, we’ll talk about what you need and what you want and everything else and keep work interesting and everything else.

And I feel like she was ahead of her time almost. This was, I mean, this was at least a decade ago, maybe 15 years ago. I feel like she was ahead of her time in terms of that. And I think a lot more people are starting to think that way of, you know what, maybe this is good enough from a work perspective. Let me fill in these other areas of my life so that everything could kind of even out and put work in its place and find other things to kind of take my time.

So that’s a big priority shift there. Number three on why ambition is going away or why it’s fallen off is burnout. And I hate just saying burnout, um, but we’re burned out. Everybody is burned out and everybody is burned out. Everyone is exhausted. And it’s not from work. It’s not just from work. It’s, uh, we’re burned out and we’re afraid because massive levels of change are being thrust upon us on a massive scale.

And this goes beyond work. I mean, the big one right now is ai. All you hear about in terms of artificial intelligence is how it’s gonna disrupt everything. Your job is going away and the robots are gonna take over and let’s massive fear. And it’s very exciting. It’s a very exciting time and I love reading about it. But when we think about what about me, it, it, it’s stress. It’s a, an incredibly stressful time.

And, and how do we kind of do the work when I know my work is going to change? I see that your, my company’s laying off 10,000 people. Am I gonna be one of them? All my competitors have laid off 10,000 people. Are we next? Um, what’s going on in society? What are the kids doing? What are we doing? You know, every it, it compounds from so many different places that we are completely burned out.

You cannot turn it off where we actually need to completely check out for a week, unplug and, and kind of reset to, to where we are now. You always hear me say, um,you know, we don’t know what’s coming and we have to go inside, right? My big thing is macro change. And this is important when you’re talking about change management at work, is we’re talking about ambition and you want people to kind of change their philosophies.

Macro change requires a focus on the micro individual. That’s why training doesn’t work. Cuz you’re telling them what they’re supposed to think and it doesn’t work. We have to teach them to think about things in a different way, in their own particular way. Because any type of change, any type of structurally different anything requires an individual to internalize it and then re manifest it in their own particular way so that they can respond appropriately.

So the one constant through all change is the individual responding to change. That’s it. And that’s leading to burnout because we’re being told what change is coming and we have no say. And we’re so focused on the external change that it’s driving burnout. And so how do we slow it down? Um, go, I saw this awesome article the other day about a woman who was a teacher and God help our teachers cuz I wouldn’t be able to do it.

Um, mostly because of the parents, completely burned out because of parents, because of the way we were teaching throughout the pandemic and everything else. Like it was a, if you were a teacher, it was a horrible type of job. Quit her job, went to go work at Costco. Life is better, wouldn’t change anything. She’s making the same amount of money. She gets her weekends back, she gets all this kind of stuff back.

And you know, when we go back to thinking about assumptions and responding to burnout and what do we need as individuals, maybe the assumption goes away that you need to work this particular job for a long, particular time. I know people made some rash decisions in the pandemic, but maybe we do take a different kind of stake in terms of, well, you know what, maybe I just go work this way. What’s good enough?

Right? Is it okay to be good enough rather than this overachiever and have these types of things happen to you and it’s a heavy discussion needs to be had with your family. Lots of, you know, <laugh>, there’s lots of fallout from these massive decisions, but ultimately you lie in the bed you make and we have to make these types of decisions and can you make it work? And a lot of people will be dismissive of it.

Oh, I can’t make it work because they haven’t looked at all of the details. I used to work with this guy at a bank. All he did was spreadsheets all day. Hated his job, hated his life. Like it was awful. Had a great family, loved his family. He was wonderful. Loved to tinker with the tools and I don’t know what he was making, but I was like, you could probably make the same at Home Depot and you could be around the tools, you could help people and it’ll be awesome.

He’s like, I can’t do that. I can’t work at Home Depot. And he said, why not? And it was all this kind of like, what would the neighbors say and everything else, but at the end of the day, he would’ve been so much happier if he had done it. Um, and it’s hard. These types of conversations are hard when we talk about responding to burnout, responding to change, responding to this lowering ambition.

It’s hard. But the thing is, nobody can do it for you because it’s ultimately your bed. Nobody can make your bed for you. I mean, maybe like,you know, billionaires, kids can make it for them, but that’s why all like family wealth goes away by the third generation because too many people are making their beds. So it’s hard. That’s okay. We’re faced with challenges and we have to overcome them. But when we overcome challenges, that’s your purpose.

That’s the feeling we’re trying to get to. And that’s what we’re really struggling with during burnout time right now is, you know, I don’t know where I’m going. I don’t know what I’m supposed to be doing. Let’s take a step back and what are these assumptions that are driving this burnout that we have to have? And what’s a feasible step, right? And it’s not just gonna be this, oh, I’m just gonna quit my job and go, you know, start a side hustle.

It’s not, it’s not that there are paths, but I think we’re blind to them because we aren’t really quite looking at them. So, um, so that’s number three. Burnout. So we talked about, um, we talked about one right at the top. We talked about going above and beyond pursuit of advancement. Assumptions need to go out the window and I’m gonna come back to that. Number two, we talked about how priorities have shifted.

And then number three, we talked about burnout. Let’s go back to this pursuit of advancement because this is the fourth one. Nobody knows what they’re working towards anymore. If you were to take burnout, there’s massive levels of change and priorities have shifted. And we take a look at this pursuit of advancement. So much change. We don’t know what the future’s going to look like in five years. We feel it, we know it.

Everybody’s talking about it. It’s no big secret, but we don’t know what we’re working towards. And I’m gonna talk about this. This is different based on gender, it’s different based on race, it’s different based on every individual. And, uh, and I’m gonna cover this next week on next week’s podcast. The podcast is gonna be what do you do with the men in your office? Um, because a lot of them had this assumption, I don’t want to tease it too much, but a lot of men had this assumption that they would just keep working and they would go up and become a VP and then a president do whatever.

Um, but the dynamics of the workplace have changed so much that something like 16 to 20% of able-bodied men are completely out of the workforce. Um, but nobody talks about it because, and this is necessary. Women have entered the workforce at large, right? And we’ve done a lot of work and a lot of good work has happened in terms of equality, making sure people are paid the same and right. This is an ongoing conversation, but there’s this group of, you know, 20% of able-bodied men are out of the workforce, not even unemployed out of the workforce.

It doesn’t account, uh, for unemployment numbers. So a lot of these things, what am I working towards? Um, and I’ll cover that in detail, um, for that. But what are we working towards? Our assumptions have changed in terms of, well, you know what, I thought I was going to go to a leadership position and organization, but there aren’t any for me and I don’t see myself getting a seat at that table.

And so if that’s cut out for me, then where do I go? I don’t know what I’m working towards. I don’t have intentionality in terms of dictating my next role. And it’s not a man problem. Well, it is a man problem, but it’s also a woman problem. It’s an everyone problem. But, you know, the future of work is quite murky and we think about it from a strategic stalemate, kind of what decisions do we make?

The organizations are thinking about this, but from an individual perspective of what am I working towards? Most people can’t answer that question. They don’t know where they want to go and they don’t know where they can go. So, you know, when we look for new jobs and we start thinking about new jobs, we think about, you know, what can I do? Right? And, and uh, I I think about this as a big moment in my career where I stopped looking at what I can do and I started thinking about what I wanted to do and that kind of changed what I was looking for in terms of new jobs because it would go through the cycle.

I’d start a new job and it was great. And then I got checked out and it was, you know, whatever. And, um, cycle continues every five years you find a new job and go through the same thing and it’s the same type of company and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And as you’re looking for that new job every five years, you’re like, well what can I do? Oh, I could do that.

Oh, I could do that, but you don’t really wanna do it, but you can do it. And you know, it’s always, grass is always greener on the other side and all of that kind of stuff. But now it’s, you know, the question of once you get up to a certain level, right? High middle management, it’s not necessarily what can you do because there’s a very limited aspect of where you can go.

And so people are very concerned about this and and they don’t know how to articulate it. They don’t know how to ask the questions. They don’t know how to have these conversations and they don’t know where is next. So a bunch of people made a jump during the pandemic that was great. They did it for money, they did it for other reasons, fantastic. Some of them regret it, some of them don’t.

But when we think about what’s next and where you’re gonna go, and I, I talk to, I mean my sweet spot for clients is 35 to 55. I’m dealing with a lot of these people and a lot of these conversations is, I don’t know what’s next. I don’t really have a future. I don’t really have, you know, we talk about development, we talk about how to bring these people up and give them a career path.

The onus is on the individual to articulate it. Yes. But organizations don’t even know how to articulate it to people to say, well this is what’s going to be available. Because the whole framework of how we structure an organization is changing. So there’s a lot of mystery around where do people go and what are you going to do? And everyone will be fine. We’re gonna find a job, we’re gonna do it, and that’s great, but is it what you wanna do?

And that’s a very deep difficult conversation for people to have with themselves and with other people. And so the onus is on us to define our roles and to solve all of this. When we talk about ambition and why, why am I doing this? And you know, I’m 35 to 55, I’m not gonna do this for another 20 years. Like if you were to look at this 20 years of doing what you’re doing today, right?

A lot of people just say, that’s miserable, right? I don’t want to do it. Ultimately you’re gonna have to make the decisions to say, you know, what, what’s possible, what can I do and how can I change it? And how do I prioritize what’s important to me and what do I really need? Um, because many of us don’t really know where to start, and it starts with a question of ourselves is what, you know, what do you want?

And, and how do you articulate it verbally? We can’t just think about it cuz we make these assumptions and we jump and we, we do all this other type of work, but a fun conversation. I do this with Gabby, my wife all the time, is what’s possible, what could we do? Um, we just had friends down a couple weeks ago. We were talking like, why don’t we just move to an island in Greece and just kind of raise the kids there and I dunno, teach ’em how to fish or some shit.

Who knows? Like <laugh>, right? I always wanted to move to Panama and just sell hot dogs on the beach. And uh, it sounds great, it sounds great. My wife’s not on board. Um, but we need to be intentional and we need to advocate for ourselves. And when we think about ambition, we have to learn and we have to, you know, we talk about vulnerability and learning and all of this type of stuff.

You got 20 years or more or less, whatever, but you’ve got 20 years to kind of make your mark in terms of what it is you wanna do. It doesn’t have to be this exhausting, you know, do it today. So tomorrow can be brilliant and blah blah blah, blah, blah. We don’t have to put this kind of pressure on ourselves. You know, everything’s okay and everything’s gonna be okay. If we can be intentional with what it is that’s, that’s relevant for us today in the moment.

And as we figure ourselves out today, everything else in the future will kind of work itself out. The more conversations you have brings opportunities of what’s possible, we have to think about what’s possible. We often think about why we can’t do something because well, AI is gonna take that job so you can’t take it and, uh, self-driving cars. So you can’t, you know, become a truck driver because self-driving cars and, you know, 10 years is gonna be whatever.

We can always find a reason why we can’t do something. But we have to, you know, have these conversations with peers and managers with our teams, right? If you manage a team to engage your team, we have to create an environment where they could share their hopes, their dreams, their fears, where they can get honest feedback, trustworthy feedback. How do you as a manager, that’s our obligation as a leader, as a manager, how do we create the environment for people to create their ambition?

We can’t tell someone what they should be doing. I hate the word should, right? Should be removed from the English language other than the fact that I should do this. Um, we can dictate that for other people, but we can engage the discussion and we can start the discussion. What do you want to do? And most people aren’t really gonna share that right away, right? We’ve got these different lives, we’ve got the public, we’ve got the private, we’ve got the secret.

And how do we tap into some of those and how do we say it’s okay to want something that you don’t currently have and not from a consumer perspective, right? We don’t need stuff, right? The more stuff you get, the more you know, kind of, you get lost in your stuff. But when we think about ambition and what we want, be proud of what you want, right? And take those little safe kind of risks and try something.

And it doesn’t have to upend everything, but when we think about ambition, when we think about our teams organizationally, create the environment for people to articulate these hopes, desires and dreams about what’s possible within the confines of the work environment or not. And then also for an individual, engage the people you trust to say, oh, I was thinking about trying this, or I was thinking about trying that and find someone who believes in you.

Everybody can find someone who believes in them. And if you don’t have someone call me up. I believe I believe in you. I believe in you <laugh>. Um, I do because it’s possible, right? There’s, we got 20 years of possibility, 30 years of possibility, 40, 50 years of possibility ahead of you. And the advice we give to young people is go enjoy life and do whatever. You’ve got plenty of time to build a career.

It’s the same for you in your thirties and forties and fifties. Yes, there’s more risk. You’ve got kids, you’ve got a home, maybe, you know, whatever. Um, but there are different ways that we could do it and we could change different dynamics based on the assumptions that we have. And so lots to think about in terms of ambition. I hope that’s helpful. I love talking about ambition, I love talking about this type of stuff.

I don’t wanna get a little too cheesy in terms of what, you know, you can do it. Um, but articulating ambition and articulating where you wish to go, not from a role perspective, but you as an individual is a great place to start. So think about that this week. I hope that’s helpful. Would love to talk to you about it more. Feel free to reach out. I love these types of conversations and as always, have a wonderful week and I’ll talk to you next week.

Thanks.