Richard Sanford co-founded the Sanford and Benedict Winery and planted the Sanford and Benedict Vineyard. He founded the Sanford Winery, and he also founded the Alma Rosa Winery, all in Santa Barbara County, California.

Richard discusses his sailing career, working in the merchant marine, racing boats recreationally, and as an officer in the United States Navy. He talks about his travels around the globe, both before and after his service in the Vietnam War. He reflects on his short time working in business and education, and then his segue to planting a vineyard in what became the Sta. Rita Hills appellation of California. That vineyard became known as the Sanford and Benedict vineyard, and Richard co-founded the Sanford and Benedict Winery with Michael Benedict to produce wine from that vineyard. They had realized that Santa Barbara County, with its transverse mountain range, offered opportunities for growing vines in areas cooled by winds coming off the Pacific Ocean.

Richard remembers his introduction to wine and a bottle of Volnay, and his desire to plant Pinot Noir in the Sanford and Benedict Vineyard. He talks about the early days getting the vineyard going, in an area where Pinot Noir had not been planted previously. He discusses the geography and geology of the place, as well as the history of ownership there. Richard recalls converting a small barn into a winemaking facility, building the fermenters, and inviting his friends to harvest the first grapes from Sanford and Benedict. He also recalls the subsequent visit from the local sheriff. Besides the attention of the police, the activity at Sanford and Benedict also drew interest from wine writer Robert Lawrence Balzer, who wrote about the wine being made near Lompoc.

Richard talks throughout this interview about both the agriculture aspect and the business side of making wine. He notes that tax write offs were an impetus for the planting of many of the vineyards in Santa Barbara County in the 1970s. He talks about the difficulties of dry farming and of organic viticulture in that area. Richard recalls meeting his wife Thekla during a fun sail. And he talks about the tough breakup with his business partner Michael Benedict that would eventually lead Richard to found the Sanford Winery near to the original Sanford and Benedict Vineyard.

Richard recalls the Small Winery Technical Society, and the other winemakers in the group, such as Dick Graff (Chalone) and Josh Jensen (Calera). He talks about the role that that group played in his own development as a winemaker, and the camaraderie that he found amongst a group of friends who were also competitors in the wine business. Richard thinks on that period with a lot of fondness. He also speaks fondly of the period of time where he felt he was at the forefront of wine and food in California, meeting and sharing time with people like Julia Child and Robert Mondavi.

Richard shares his memories of visiting Burgundy and meeting vigneron and winery owners like Vincent Leflaive of Domaine Leflaive, Jacques Seysses of Domaine Dujac, and Aubert de Villaine of Domaine de la Romanée-Conti. Richard notes specifically what he learned while visiting Burgundy, and what he then brought back to his own winemaking work in California.

Richard notes how many more vineyards had been planted in the surrounding area by the time he started the Sanford Winery, a stark difference from when he first planted the Sanford and Benedict vineyard. He talks about the shifts in ownership for those vineyards over time. He talks about adding a Sauvignon Blanc to his white wine lineup, in addition to the Chardonnay. He touches on the specifics of the Sanford and Benedict Vineyard, in terms of how the wines from there taste. And he discusses the elaborate construction of the Sanford winery facility, an expensive project that obliged him to take on an additional financial partner in the Sanford Winery and would eventually lead to Richard's exit from the Sanford Winery that bears his name. Richard is frank in this interview about the challenges he faced in the wine business during his career.

Richard states that he has had to dust himself off and start over several times, such as when he founded the Alma Rosa Winery with Thekla after leaving the Sanford Winery. As with the winery projects Richard was involved with earlier, the Alma Rosa Winery is also in what is now referred to as the Sta. Rita Hills appellation. It is an area that saw increased interest from consumers in the wake of the movie Sideways, something Richard talks about in this episode. Richard would eventually be obliged to sell the Alma Rosa Winery, but was involved in planting vineyard parcels there. He continues to live and work in Santa Barbara County, an area which is now well-known for its success with the Pinot Noir grape.

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David Rafanelli and his family own the A. Rafanelli Winery in the Dry Creek Valley of Sonoma County, California.

David relates the story of his Italian grandmother arriving in California in 1903, and beginning to make homemade wine in San Francisco. He explains how the family bought farm land in the Dry Creek Valley in the 1920s, thus beginning a 100 year stretch of working with vines within a 3 mile radius, something which continues today. The current winery housing A. Rafanelli was founded in 1973.

David took agronomy and crop science courses in Oregon in the late 1960s, and also went to school for viticulture in California. He has throughout his career compared and combined the wisdom that was passed on to him by his family members with the teachings he learned in school. David went to work for the Lambert Bridge Winery in the 1970s, allowing him the opportunity to contrast the situation of another winery with that of his own family. David’s dad, who passed away in 1987, typically worked with Zinfandel and complementary grape varieties at the Rafanelli winery. David convinced him to also plant Cabernet Sauvignon. David discusses the introduction of heat treated vines in the 1970s, and the prevalence of leaf roll virus prior to their introduction. He speaks about the failure of the AxR1 rootstock in California, and how that shaped the replanting of vines later on in the state. David emphasizes working a piece of land and the importance of being familiar with it.

The process of achieving an appellation for the Dry Creek Valley started in 1982, and David speaks about that, as well as the characteristics of the Dry Creek Valley in terms of climate, soils, and geography. He also talks about the challenges to Zinfandel presented by cooler and hotter years, and how he approaches blending from different sites within Dry Creek to achieve consistency. He further talks about the difference between making a wine just from Zinfandel versus blending other grape varieties into a wine that is mostly Zinfandel.

The A. Rafanelli winery began using new French oak barrels for Zinfandel in the mid-1980s, and David talks about the significance of that, as well as what the unfined and unfiltered approach implies for his Zinfandel based wines. David sums up the challenges that were associated with marketing Zinfandel outside of California in the 1980s, and the stylistic divergence of different types of Zinfandel: light Zin, white Zin, table wine, and the late harvest style. He talks about being in on “the ground breaking of premium wines” in California and points to a “big change” between the 1960s and 1990s. He recalls how fruit crops were removed from California and replaced with vines, whereas previously there had been more demand for those fruit crops.

David speaks at length about winery sales and production size, and points out that the job isn’t just making wine. It is also dealing with what nature gives, and then marketing bottles of wine. He explains why he focused on selling direct to consumers, instead of having someone else market and sell all the wine. He talks about patterning his marketing efforts on wineries like Stony Hill that sold direct through a mailing list. David suggests asking what the goal of a winery entering the wine business should be, and that the answer is “all on what you perceive as success.” He suggests avoiding a production size that ties a winery into permanent growth, and also having a plan for the wine that will be made before it is produced.

David is frank about the pressures on wineries in California to sell the winery instead of retaining a family business for generations. “Everything is working against that family winery,” says David, and he specifically warns against the hazards of increasing bottle production. “What is the definition of success?" asks David. "Success is happiness, success is making what you need to make.” David speaks about the significant roles two of his daughters hold at the family winery today.

David speaks about the Zinfandel grape and soil types: what Zinfandel prefers in terms of rocks versus clay. He also addresses the effect of soil type on Zinfandel ripening, as well as the thickness of the skins. Zinfandel is generally thin skinned, with tight clusters, and a ripeness that is not uniform, says David. He relates that the frustrations of growing Zinfandel are such that “if I was growing grapes, I probably wouldn’t grow Zinfandel to sell.” That being said, two thirds of the family winery production is Zinfandel. David suggests that Zinfandel is a grape that California largely has to itself, and that as such, he generally isn't competing with the rest of the world and other versions of that grape variety. He also summarizes the Dry Creek flavor profile for Zinfandel.

When discussing his winemaking, David says he aims for a long ageing style of Zinfandel that is not overripe. He talks about Bordeaux winemaking technique being used with Zinfandel. He talks about ageing the wine in the winery for a bit of time before releasing it to the public. He emphasizes cleanliness in the winery. He differentiates between punch downs and pumpovers, and what they means for both the fermenting juice and the skins. He talks about how they approach malolactic conversion and the pressing of grapes at the winery today.

David advises determining a wine style that you like and sticking to it, he relates the pleasures of working with hundred year old vines in Sonoma, and alludes to the "never ending process” of learning.

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Patrick Campbell was the owner of Laurel Glen Vineyard on Sonoma Mountain in California, a winery he sold in 2011. He began the Tierra Divina Vineyards company, which encompasses the Terra Rosa, REDS, !ZaZin, and Tierra Divina wine labels, among others. The Tierra Divina Vineyards brands include wine labels from Lodi in California, from Argentina, and previously from Chile.

Patrick talks about growing up in Southern California in the 1950s and 60s, and his early experiences drinking wine with his family as a teenager. He talks about visiting wineries in the Cucamonga Valley of California during the period of the time when that was a prominent appellation for California wine production. And he sums up the kind of wines that were being made in the Cucamonga Valley area at that time.

Patrick talks about his increasing engagement with his religious feelings, which would eventually lead him to study the Philosophy of Religion at Harvard University, and to then join a Zen Buddhist Center in Sonoma, California. He makes a connection between religious feeling and farming, and talks about his work pruning old vine Palomino at the Zen Center. When a vineyard then came up for sale near the Zen Center on Sonoma Mountain, Patrick bought it and expanded the acreage. In the process he learned about the history of immigration to Sonoma Mountain, spoke with many of the interesting characters who called the Mountain home, and took an increasing interest in wines from the area.

Patrick describes the vine growing conditions of Sonoma Mountain, and discusses his early days as a grape grower in the late 1970s. He talks about learning how to prune. He contrasts his business experiences with Chateau St. Jean with the more positive outcome he had selling grapes to Kenwood Vineyards. He discusses the vintages of the 1970s and 1980s on Sonoma Mountain, some of which were more successful than others. And he details his shift from just selling grapes to then making wine and selling it under his own label.

The grape material at Laurel Glen and the Laurel Glen clone are discussed, and so are the market preferences for California wine in the 1980s. Patrick talks about the setup of his winery in the early days, and details his use of punching down to maximize contact between juice and skins. He also stresses the importance of tannin management when dealing with Mountain Cabernet. He emphasizes that he is not a university trained winemaker, and talks about winemaking as a process of controlled spoilage. He explains facets of his technique, such as his approach to maceration, pressing, and cooperage at the time. And then the conversation takes a turn, as Patrick describes his increasing interest in bulk wine, in marketing bulk wine from California, and then subsequently developing projects in Chile, followed after that by a long period of working with wine from Argentina.

Patrick talks about Argentina as a relatively little known wine region at the time he first visited it, and shares his experience of first trying a wine from Malbec. He then covers the situation for winemaking in Argentina during that period, and the social, economic, and political realities that he witnessed as well. Patrick contrasts the wine culture and society of Chile at that time with what he witnessed in Argentina, and then describes the boom period for Argentinian Malbec in the global wine market, as well as what happened next. Patrick enunciates a philosophy in step with and taking cues from local winemaking traditions, while also being frank about his embrace of modern winemaking techniques and methods. He further discusses the market for the wines.

Patrick's involvement with the push for expanded direct shipping of wine in the United States comes into the discussion, and he talks about the numerous strategy sessions, the different partnerships, and the approaches that were developed in the run up to a United States Supreme Court verdict on the question of direct shipping from wineries to out of state customers. He then addresses the ramifications of that 2005 decision on the wine market of today,

There is a forthright discussion about Patrick's decision to sell Laurel Glen Vineyard, as well as some sage advice for young people just starting out in the winemaking business today. Patrick also speaks about the severe illness that left him partially paralyzed for life, with limited mobility.

Erin Scala also describes in this episode the background to Granholm v. Heald, the US Supreme Court decision which had large ramifications for direct shipping of wine inside in the United States after it was decided in 2005. This was the court case in which Patrick Campbell was involved, along with a group of other people who were looking for the expansion of direct shipping opportunities for wine.

This episode features commentary from:

Mike Chelini, formerly winemaker at Stony Hill Vineyard

Ray Coursen, founding winemaker at Elyse Winery

Randall Grahm, founding winemaker at Bonny Doon Vineyard

Joel Peterson, founding winemaker at Ravenswood Winery

David Rafanelli, A. Rafanelli Winery

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Regular listeners of I'll Drink to That! discuss some of their favorite episodes, and Erin Scala tracks down signature clips from those interviews. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Erwan Faiveley runs Domaine Faiveley as well as Maison Joseph Faiveley, both based in the town of Nuits-Saint-Georges in Burgundy, France. He also runs Domaine Billaud-Simon in Chablis. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Aldo Vaira, together with his family, runs the G.D. Vajra winery in Piemonte's Barolo zone.

Also in this episode, Erin Scala takes a look at grape varieties that are outliers in their areas.

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David White is the founder of the website Terroirist.com and the author of the book "But First, Champagne: A Modern Guide to the World's Favorite Wine."

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Hardy Wallace returns to the show to discuss his work for Dirty & Rowdy in California, as well as his new side project, called Clothing Optional.

Also in this episode, Erin Scala gives a contemporary survey of the world's Mourvedre options.

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Cristiana Tiberio works with her family at the Tiberio winery in Abruzzo, Italy.

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Clement Baraut was a longtime consultant in the Loire Valley of France before starting Domaine Clement Baraut to pursue Savennieres and Grolleau wines of his own. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

At the time of this interview, Haley Moore was Wine & Spirits Director of the Stock & Bones Company, a group of restaurants located in San Francisco, Oakland, and Portland, Oregon.

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Isabelle Legeron is the author of the book "Natural Wine: An Introduction to Organic and Biodynamic Wines Made Naturally," and the founder of the RAW WINE fair. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Vittorio Fiore and his family own the Poggio Scalette winery in Tuscany as well as Castelluccio in Romagna, Italy. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Sylvain Pataille is the owner and winemaker at Domaine Sylvain Pataille, which is located in the Marsannay area of Burgundy, within France.

Sylvain discusses the impact in Burgundy of economic changes over the last one hundred years, and notes the special situation of Marsannay, which is near the city of Dijon in France. He does into some depth about the the vine planting history of the Marsannay area, and the commercial success of rosé wine from Marsannay. Sylvain then relates the more recent history of his own family's wine domaine, including its association with the Aligoté grape. This leads him to contrast the region's older viticultural practices - which he has identified from reading older books - with more recent norms. He also gives an overview of the different areas of the Marsannay appellation, and its top crus.

Sylvain describes his own progression in oenology, from a more technical lab background to his very different focus today. He talks about working with "the best and the worst wine growers" in Burgundy as an oenological consultant, and what feelings led him to leave that sort of business in the lab behind, with a shift of focus to his own wine domaine. At his own domaine he has explored no sulphur vinifications and low sulphur bottlings, as well as non-filtered bottlings, which he sums up as "new old style." He has also attempted to use less sulphur and copper treatments in his vineyards, and experimented with Biodynamic applications.

Sylvain summarizes what is particular about the native yeasts and bacteria of Burgundy. He also details how the shift in vintage conditions from year to year, alternating between hot and cold years, has implications for both the vineyard work and the winemaking. He further contrasts the draining ability of different types of soils he works with, and what that means for the work in the vines. Realizations about yields, and what they imply for the finished wines, are also shared, as well as key times for decisions about yields. Guyot Poussard pruning, which is concerned with sap flow pathways in the vine wood, is something that Sylvain has embraced, and he explains why in this interview. He gives a summary of some of the advantages of Guyot Poussard, and what he values in his vineyard work. Sylvain gives an overview of the differences between Aligoté, Chardonnay, and Pinot Noir in the vineyard, as well.

Stem inclusion is something that Sylvain prefers in both white and red wines, and he explains why, as well as what stems bring to the final wines in terms of color, alcohol level, and acidity. He also discusses why he prefers to crush fruit, and what crushing promotes in a fermentation and in a finished wine. When it comes to pressing, Sylvain also has his preferences, and he explains the benefits of vertical pressing. Further, he addresses topics likes the timing of malolactic conversion, lees stirring, oxidation, and reduction, specifically enunciating multiple causes of reduction. Sylvain also gives his thoughts on the topic of premature oxidation (premox) of Chardonnay in Burgundy in general.

This episode also features commentary from:

Bruno Clair (translated by Peter Wasserman), Domaine Bruno Clair

John Kongsgaard, Kongsgaard Wine

Becky Wasserman, Becky Wasserman & Co.

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Ben Howkins is a founding director of the Royal Tokaji Wine Company in Hungary.

Also in this episode, Erin Scala discusses Tokaji wines.

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Corrado Dottori and his family run the La Distesa winery in the Marche of Italy.

Also in this episode, Erin Scala considers the migration of the Verdicchio grape to the Marche.

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Jane Anson is the Bordeaux correspondent for "Decanter" magazine. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Martina Barosio works with her family at the Scarpa winery in Nizza Monferrato, within Italy's Piemonte region.

Also in this episode, Erin Scala retraces a timeline of Nizza Monferrato.

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Mathieu Deiss works with his father at Domaine Marcel Deiss in Alsace, France.

Also in this episode, Erin Scala charts some of the history of Bergheim, in Alsace.

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Hugh Johnson has been an author and editor of wine articles and books for over 50 years. His books include "The World Atlas of Wine," "A Life Uncorked," "Hugh Johnson's Pocket Wine Book," "Hugh Johnson On Wine," and "Wine". He also hosted and produced the PBS TV program "Vintage: A History of Wine". See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Marie Vayron is a sommelier at Le Bernardin restaurant in Manhattan. Her family owns Château Bourgneuf in the Pomerol area of Bordeaux, France. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Mario Andrion is the enologist at Castello di Verduno, located within Piemonte's Barolo zone in the town of Verduno.

Also in this episode, Erin Scala explores the Pelaverga grape variety.

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Ernest Ifkovitz is a partner in PortoVino, an importer of Italian wines into the United States. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Cristiano Garella is a partner in the Alto Piemonte's Colombera & Garella winery, as well as a consultant for many other wineries in that region of Italy.

Also in this episode, Erin Scala explores the shift in vineyard plantings within the Alto Piemonte.

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Erin Scala explores the wines of Pico Island, a part of the Portuguese Azores in the Atlantic Ocean.

Erin puts on sturdy boots and ventures to the Azores to explore mysterious vineyards and ancient lava stone walls in view of the giant volcano on Pico Island. She explores grape varieties grown on Pico, such as Arinto dos Açores, Terrantez do Pico, and Verdelho, and describes the wines made from them. She also details local traditions associated with winemaking on the island, as well as the geography of the place and its history.

Erin speaks with several different people who live and work on Pico today, leading a tour to many of the top wine producer addresses on the island. In the process, she also goes into specifics about what some of the top producers are up to in regards to topics like oxidation, reduction, pressing, and wine aging, touching on the wide range of wines on made on the island. Erin finds out about some of the distinctive vineyard practices on the island. She also gives a sense of some of the different personalities amongst the winemakers and vine growers. In the process, Erin reveals the renaissance of winemaking that has occurred in recent years on the island, as well as explaining what occurred to send vine growing into decline there many decades ago.

Across this episode, Erin interweaves the culture, context, and history of this area of Portugal into the survey of the wines there. Listeners will hear about the distinct cheese of the island, the spiritual significance of the soups there, the effects of the vineyard walls, the impact of the whaling industry on Pico, and "The Year of the Noise". More than a sense of place, Erin also conveys a sense of the sublime. She takes you to some of the hardest vineyards to farm on Planet Earth, and gives you a fantastic sense of why it is important to do so.

This episode features commentary from (listed in order of appearance):

Vanda Supa, Director of Environment and Climate Change of Pico

Monica Silva Goulart, Architectural Expert of the Pico Island Vineyards

Paulo Machado, Insula and Azores Wine Company

Dr. Joy Ting, Enologist at the Winemaker's Research Exchange

António Maçanita, Azores Wine Company

Catia Laranjo, Etnom

André Ribeiro and Ricardo Pinto, Entre Pedras

Lucas Lopez Amaral (translated by Paulo Machado), Adega Vitivinícola Lucas Amaral

Tito Silva (translated by Fortunato Garcia), Cerca dos Frades

Jose Eduardo and Luisa Terra, Pocinho Bay

Fortunato Garcia, Czar Winery

Bernardo Cabral, Picowines Co-op

Filipe Rocha, Azores Wine Company

Christina Cunha (for her uncle Leonardo da Silva), Santo Antonio Carcarita

Marco Faria, Curral Atlantis Winery

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Giacomo Conterno works with his family at Poderi Aldo Conterno, a winery located in the Monforte d'Alba area of Piemonte's Barolo zone. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Maria Teresa Mascarello is the proprietor of Cantina Bartolo Mascarello, in the Barolo area of Italy's Piemonte region. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Marta Rinaldi works with her family at the Giuseppe Rinaldi winery in the Barolo area of Italy's Piemonte.

Also in this episode, Erin Scala delves into Freisa.

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Claude de Nicolay co-manages her family's Burgundy domaine, Chandon de Briailles in Savigny-lès-Beaune.

Also in this episode, Erin Scala explores the wines of Pernand-Vergelesses in Burgundy, France.

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Lingzi He is a freelance journalist living in Bordeaux, who also has traveled and studied extensively in Italy. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Anselmo Guerrieri Gonzaga, along with his father Carlo, manages Tenuta San Leonardo, in Italy's Trentino-Alto Adige.

Also in this episode, Erin Scala explores when Cabernet might first have been brought to Italy.

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Marco Tinessa creates Ognostro by sourcing grapes from Italy's Campania. At the time of this interview, he was fermenting them on Mount Etna in Sicily.

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Luca Currado returns to the show to discuss recent changes at the Vietti winery in the Barolo area of Piemonte, Italy. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

At the time of this interview, Mariel Wega was the Wine Director of a.kitchen + bar in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

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Abrie Beeslaar is the winemaker for Kanonkop and Beeslaar, both in the Stellenbosch of South Africa.

Also in this episode, Erin Scala explains how the threat of scurvy helped set in motion the South African wine trade.

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Dominik Sona is the General Manager of the Koehler-Ruprecht winery, which is located in the Pfalz region of Germany.

Dominik speaks about his family history in the Pfalz and his winemaking work early in his career for a winery, Villa Wolf, in that area of Germany. He also discusses the situation for the Koehler-Ruprecht winery in 2010, when he began to work at that winery. He references the history of the Koehler-Ruprecht winery, and notes that the previous proprietor, Bernd Philippi, was a pioneer in the production of dry Riesling wines from the Pfalz.

Dominik speaks about the winemaking protocol for wines at Koehler-Ruprecht, and contrasts that with the winemaking at Villa Wolf. He also gives details about the handling of grapes in the winery, and the explains how the wines are aged at Koehler-Ruprecht prior to bottling. He discusses the exit of the winery from the VDP organization of German wineries in 2014, and touches on what led to the decision to leave the VDP. He also stresses what is important for the philosophy of winemaking at Koehler-Ruprecht: a focus on dry Riesling, fermented with native yeasts, aged in old wood barrels for a long period on the lees, and given a limited dose of sulphur.

Dominik refers to method of selection at Koehler-Ruprecht, and notes that choices regarding bottlings, such as determining which lots go into Kabinett Trocken versus Spatlese or Auslese Trocken, are decisions made on tasting the wines, not on analytical numbers or areas of the vineyard. He explains what he is looking for on the palate when he makes those choices, and also describes the aromatics and food pairing potential of those wines. He also speaks about the ageability of the wines, and how they might evolve in bottle. And he gives some insight into the R and RR wines, the rare wines that Koehler-Ruprecht makes in certain years. In relation to these topics, Dominik also discusses climate change, and the likelihood that the vintages in these days tend towards more ripeness than the vintages in the past.

The Saumagen is the most famous vineyard owned by Koehler-Ruprecht, and where the most prestigious wines of the winery emerge from. Dominik discusses the characteristics of that vineyard, including the exposure, the microclimate, and the presence of limestone there. He also discusses what wines from the Saumagen display that other wines of the winery might not. And he makes the connection between the flavors of the Saumagen Riesling wines and what foods they may pair well with.

Spätburgunder (Pinot Noir) is also discussed, in addition to Riesling. Dominik discusses the evolution of Spätburgunder winemaking in the Pfalz, and talks about what has changed and why. He also notes the move to new types of vine material for Spätburgunder, and talks about what the ramifications of that change may be.

This interview represents an excellent opportunity to learn about the specifics of winemaking at a winery that follows its own path, and about which there is somewhat little information generally available. At the same time, the episode provides a large amount of context for understanding some of the changes in German winemaking in general.

This episode also features commentary from:

Florian Lauer, Weingut Peter Lauer

Johannes Selbach, Weingut Selbach-Oster

Egon Müller IV, Weingut Egon Müller-Scharzhof and Château Bela

Katharina Prüm, Weingut Joh. Jos. Prüm

Klaus-Peter Keller, Weingut Keller

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Aaron Miller is the winemaker at the PlumpJack Winery in the Napa Valley of California. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Ampelio Bucci is the proprietor of the Bucci winery in the Marche of Italy.

Also in this episode, Erin Scala gives an introduction to Le Marche.

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At the time of this interview, Kimberly Prokoshyn was the Head Sommelier and wine buyer at Rebelle restaurant in Manhattan.

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Jean-Nicolas Méo is the proprietor of Méo-Camuzet in Burgundy, and a partner in the Nicolas-Jay winery in Oregon.

Also in this episode, Erin Scala gives a history of Richebourg.

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Joy Kull is a co-owner of La Villana wines in Gradoli, Italy. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Bruce Tyrrell is the Managing Director of Tyrrell's Wines, based in the Hunter Valley of Australia's New South Wales.

Also in this episode, Erin Scala examines Australian Semillon.

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Alex Sanchez works with the Brovia sisters at the Brovia family winery in the Piemonte, Italy.

Also in this episode, Erin Scala charts the rise of single vineyard Barolo.

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Danny Meyer is the CEO of the Union Square Hospitality Group, responsible for restaurants like Union Square Cafe, Gramercy Tavern, Maialino, The Modern, Blue Smoke and others located in New York City and around the world.   See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Olivier Humbrecht is the proprietor of Zind-Humbrecht, the winery of his family in the Alsace region of France.

Also in this episode, Erin Scala talks soil types and war in Alsace.

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Dan Petroski is the winemaker for Larkmead and the owner of Massican, both wineries based in the Napa Valley of California.

Also in this episode, Erin Scala discusses some of the unintended consequences of Prohibition.

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George Skouras is the owner and winemaker at Domaine Skouras, located in the Peloponnese of Greece.

George explains how his interest in wine first developed, and discusses his time as a student, working and living in France. He then talks about the early period of his career, making wine on the Greek island of Cephalonia. He describes a key meeting with Spyros Kosmetatos, which would lead to the founding of the Gentilini Winery on Cephalonia, and to market success for a white wine he made there. George shares some of the business philosophies that he developed at that time and which stayed with him later on.

George then discusses his return to an area near where he grew up, Nemea, to focus on the production of wines from the red Agiorgitiko and the white Moscofilero grape varieties. He talks about his first vintages of making wine at Domaine Skouras, and about the resistance he faced trying to sell Agiorgitiko wines in the international markets. This last problem was solved by the addition of some Cabernet Sauvignon into the blend of one of the Skouras wines, a wine called Megas Oenos. That blend was a market success, and led to more interest as well in the native Agiorgitiko wines from Nemea. That interest was shared by George, who spent decades examining the different areas in which Agiorgitiko was grown, and exploring the different qualities that the grape possesses. George came to several conclusions about how to grow and to handle Agiorgitiko, and he shares those thoughts in this interview. He also describes the different growing areas for the grape variety. He then touches on a key change, the recent development of virus-free clones of Agiorgitiko. Further, George gives an assessment of his own wines from Agiorgitiko, and their development over time.

George frequently discusses how both the Greek wine business and the international markets for wine have changed over time, and he gives an account of his own developments in response. He also summarizes his work with little known native grape varieties like Mavrostifo. And George speaks in some detail about Moscofilero, specifically about a darker colored variant of Moscofilero known as Mavrofilero. George talks about his early learning curve with Moscofilero winemaking, and describes the attributes of a Moscofilero wine from the Peloponnese.

Several viticulture and winemaking topics are touched on in this interview, including irrigation, yields, elevation of vineyards, destemming, press wine, cooperage, lees contact, and aging.

If you are curious about the development of Greek wine since the 1970s, this is a key perspective to take into account. George is one of a generation of Greek winemakers who have decidedly shaped the Greek wine scene of today.

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Sam Ehrlich is the Wine Director of the Blue Ribbon Restaurant Group, based in New York City. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Nicoletta Bocca is the proprietor of the San Fereolo winery, in the Dogliani zone of the Piemonte in Italy.

Also in this episode, Erin Scala examines the hierarchies we place grape varieties into.

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Tom Peters is the proprietor of the Monk's Cafe, the Belgian beer bar in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.