Heads Talk ® – Détails, épisodes et analyse
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Heads Talk ®
Elaine Pringle Schwitter
Fréquence : 1 épisode/7j. Total Éps: 300

Heads Talk® is a top 0.5% global executive podcast, featuring in-depth conversations with FTSE 100 and S&P 500 CEOs, C-Suite executives, diplomats, policymakers, academics, strategists, and leaders of global institutions.
Each episode examines the nexus rerum of boardrooms and statecraft, where corporate strategy, geopolitics, and global markets converge, and where decisions carry real-world consequence.
Through direct dialogue with the heads of leading multinational organisations, Heads Talk® offers a rare, unfiltered perspective on the forces shaping business, finance, technology, and world affairs.
Featured guests include executive Heads from organisations such as Alphabet, AWS, Boeing, Deloitte, EY, HSBC, IBM, KPMG, McKinsey & Company, Microsoft, Pfizer, Salesforce, Shell, Siemens, UBS, Verizon, Zurich Insurance, and many many more.
Enter the room:Become #AFlyOnTheBoardroomWall #AFlyOnTheCabinetRoomWall
#HeadsTalk
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277 - Stan Sthanunathan, Executive Chairman: i-Genie.AI Inc - Symbiotic Intelligence
Épisode 277
lundi 10 novembre 2025 • Durée 57:29
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Episode Title: 🇺🇸Symbiotic Intelligence🇺🇸
We have a timely and thought-provoking discussion for you today on Heads Talk®. There’s been a lot of noise lately, headlines, commentary and opinion pieces; all circling the question: 𝔸𝕣𝕖 𝕨𝕖 𝕙𝕖𝕒𝕕𝕚𝕟𝕘 𝕥𝕠𝕨𝕒𝕣𝕕𝕤 𝕒𝕟 𝔸𝕀 𝕓𝕦𝕓𝕓𝕝𝕖 𝕓𝕦𝕣𝕤𝕥? Everyone seems to have a view, so I wanted to bring in someone with gravitas who truly sits at the intersection of experience and innovation. someone who has seen the cycles, the hype, and the real potential of this technology.
My guest today is Stan Sthanunathan, a seasoned insights and marketing leader with a truly global perspective, known for redefining how some of the world’s most recognised brands understand consumers. With a career spanning The Coca-Cola Company and Unilever, where he served as Executive Vice President of Consumer & Market Insights until 2021 , Stan came out of retirement to found i-Genie.AI, an enterprise bringing real-time, AI-powered insights to business leaders worldwide.
In this episode, we looked at the current state of AI: is it reaching a saturation point, or are we only scratching the surface and at the beginning? Is this “bubble” narrative overblown, or are we edging toward a market correction? And, of course, I couldn’t resist throwing in a few philosophical questions about humanity’s relationship with AI, our level of control, and the broader meaning of innovation itself. I loved this exchange; it was sharp, grounded, and occasionally existential. Pretty much how we like it here on Heads Talk®.
Expect a dynamic conversation that bridges business, technology, and the human condition.
Topics Covered:
◽️ AI hallucination and the fight for data truth
◽️ The human in the loop and the ethics of agentic intelligence
◽️ Turning AI insights into business action at speed and scale
◽️ Storytelling, intuition and the enduring human edge in a data-saturated world
◽️ Whispers of an AI bubble and the geopolitics of the US–China AI race
◽️ Designing AI that teaches humans to think better, not less
◽️ Balancing algorithmic efficiency with democratic deliberation
◽️ The next decade of human–machine collaboration and causal AI
◽️ The New Chief Meaning Officer
So download⏳grab a cup of Bird & Blend Tea Co. - Peppy Mint Tea ☕️& have a listen🛋
Episode Brought to you by
◽️i-Genie.AI - 𝔸𝕦𝕘𝕞𝕖𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕕 𝕀𝕟𝕥𝕖𝕝𝕝𝕚𝕘𝕖𝕟𝕔𝕖 𝕎𝕚𝕥𝕙𝕠𝕦𝕥 𝕊𝕦𝕣𝕧𝕖𝕪𝕤 𝕠𝕣 𝔽𝕠𝕔𝕦𝕤 𝔾𝕣𝕠𝕦𝕡𝕤
ABOUT THE HOST
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276 - Ralf Germer, CEO: BRICS Series, PagBrasil - The Pix Paradox: Small Transactions, Global Ripples
Épisode 276
lundi 3 novembre 2025 • Durée 55:18
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Episode Title: 🇧🇷The Pix Paradox: Small Transactions, Global Ripples🇧🇷
This episode is a crossover, a hybrid, a merger of the two concurrent series running on Heads Talk®: the BRICS & Geopolitics Series and the Money 2020 Riyadh Conversations. Consider it killing two birds with one stone, bringing together insights from global geopolitics and the forefront of fintech innovation. I had the privilege of hosting this installment as my personal contribution to the Money 2020 Riyadh series, capturing perspectives from a pivotal moment on the global stage, with Brazil very much on the map today where we unpack the 'Pix Paradox'.
A truly fascinating discussion. We looked at the quiet revolution of Pix, Brazil’s digital payments innovation, which is transforming the country’s spending culture while sending ripples across the globe.
What began as small, everyday transactions has grown into a force reshaping money and commerce, connecting local merchants to international markets, and redefining financial inclusion across LATAM and beyond. From Pix Roaming to recurring payments, we trace how Brazil’s ingenuity is influencing global payment infrastructures, showing that digital finance is not just a tool for transactions, it's so much more than money. They are instruments, if you like, of connection, opportunity, and soft power. Though my guest would argue that it's less about politics and more about business. Listen for that bit of the conversation/argument!
I was completely captivated by the story of Brazil’s digital payments revolution and taken aback but the insights delivered by today's guest.
Ralf Germer, the CEO of PagBrasil, Brazil’s leading payments technology company, joins me in this fascinating series. With a career spanning international business development, product marketing, and entrepreneurship, Ralf has been at the forefront of reshaping Brazil’s payments landscape.
Under his leadership, PagBrasil has pioneered innovations like PagStream, International Pix, and Pix Roaming. Tools that are connecting local merchants to global markets and advancing financial inclusion.
Topics Covered:
◽️ Brazil’s digital payments revolution and the rise of Pix
◽️ PagBrasil’s role in connecting local merchants to global markets
◽️ Cross-border innovation and the expansion of Pix Roaming
◽️ Economic and social impact of Pix Automático on recurring payments
◽️ BRICS Pay and Brazil’s influence in shaping new payment infrastructures
◽️ Geopolitics of payments and financial diplomacy in emerging markets
◽️ Balancing sovereignty and openness in national payment systems
◽️ Future of digital payments, from embedded finance to programmable money
◽️ Payments as soft power in the global digital economy
Episode Sponsored by
◽️Accxia - 𝔼𝕦𝕣𝕠𝕡𝕖'𝕤 𝕃𝕒𝕣𝕘𝕖𝕤𝕥 ℙ𝕣𝕚𝕧𝕒𝕥𝕖 ℂ𝕝𝕠𝕦𝕕 𝕗𝕠𝕣 𝔸𝕥𝕝𝕒𝕤𝕤𝕚𝕒𝕟
ABOUT THE HOST
#AFlyOnTheBoardroomWall #HTBRICSSeries #HeadsTalkPodcast
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267 - HRH Princess Lebogang Zulu, President: BRICS Series, India–South Africa Chamber of Commerce, BRICS Women’s Business Alliance - African Women: Architect of Trade “A miracle built on unity”
Épisode 267
dimanche 31 août 2025 • Durée 38:59
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Episode Title: 🇿🇦African Women: Architect of Trade “A Miracle Built On Unity"🇮🇳
We continue the #HTBRICSSeries on Heads Talk with a formidable business leader whose influence spans construction, manufacturing, energy, and international trade.
HRH Princess Lebogang Zulu is the Executive Chairperson of the BRICS Women’s Business Alliance South Africa and the President of the Expanded BRICS Women Foundation. She is also the:
- Vice President of the India–South Africa Chamber of Commerce
- Chairperson of Africa Women’s Bank (Private) Limited
- Executive Director of Kampara Industries Holdings; and
- Chief Executive of Kokozu International.
With over two decades of leadership, she has championed women’s economic empowerment across Africa and the BRICS nations, spearheading a $2.7 billion initiative in 2023 that created over 120,000 jobs for South African women entrepreneurs.
We explored Africa’s evolving role in the BRICS+ framework, highlighting the shift of African women from beneficiaries of inclusion to architects of continental and cross-border trade. Discussions examined deepening economic ties with Russian and Indian partners, particularly in energy and manufacturing, and how South Africa’s expanding commercial footprint in India is reshaping trade flows in exports, transport, and logistics. We also assessed how US tariff shifts have driven BRICS+ nations to strengthen intra-bloc trade, build trust, and reduce reliance on the West. The reduction in aid, rather than a setback, has accelerated Africa’s push to design its own trade architecture, prioritising continental integration while engaging global partners as equals.
Topics Covered:
◽️ Leadership Priorities across Global Executive Roles
◽️ BRICS+ Strategy Reshaping Governance and Trade Corridors
◽️ Policy Influence through the BRICS Women’s Business Alliance
◽️ African Women Moving from Inclusion to Architecting Trade
◽️ Strategic Value of the 2025 BRICS+ Agri-Summit
◽️ South Africa’s Growing Footprint in India
◽️ Unlocking South Africa–India Bilateral Trade Potential
◽️ Removing Structural Barriers in Manufacturing and Agriculture
◽️ Building Energy and Manufacturing ties with Russian and Indian BRICS+ Members
◽️ Impact of US Tariff Volatility on Intra-BRICS Trade Trust and Cooperation
◽️ How Reduced Foreign Aid is Catalysing Africa’s Self-driven Trade Architecture
◽️ Lessons from Transformational Women-led Agricultural Initiatives
◽️ Economic Outcomes from the 2025 Global Women Leadership Programme
So download⏳grab a cup of Bird & Blend Tea Co. - Peppy Mint Tea ☕️& have a listen🛋
Episode Sponsored by
◽️Accxia - 𝔼𝕦𝕣𝕠𝕡𝕖'𝕤 𝕃𝕒𝕣𝕘𝕖𝕤𝕥 ℙ𝕣𝕚𝕧𝕒𝕥𝕖 ℂ𝕝𝕠𝕦𝕕 𝕗𝕠𝕣 𝔸𝕥𝕝𝕒𝕤𝕤𝕚𝕒𝕟
ABOUT THE HOST
#AFlyOnTheBoardroomWall #HTBRICSSeries #HeadsTalkPodcast
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176 - Florin Rotar CAIO: Next Generation Cloud Series - Avanade, Everybody Must Be A Prompt Engineers
Épisode 176
dimanche 19 novembre 2023 • Durée 53:24
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Episode Title:- 🇺🇸Everybody Must Be A Prompt Engineer🇺🇸
My guest today is the 1st Chief Artificial Intelligence Officer (CAIO) we have had on the show. A sign of the times. A fascinating discussion with Florin Rotar, CAIO of Avanade and the former CTO of Avanade.
Florin drives the Global AI Strategy and Execution across all parts of the business, spanning leadership, Sales, Solutions, Delivery, Capability and the Partner Ecosystem. He was recognised by Entrepreneur Magazine as one of the Top 10 CTOs to Watch in 2023.
A very enjoyable and thoughtful conversation with Florin, who carefully threaded the human needs and ethical elements in our discussion throughout the episode. Do have a listen.
Topics Covered:
◽️Critical Role of a CAIO Today
◽️Mobile 1st, then Cloud 1st, then AI 1st and now back to Cloud 1st - NGC
◽️Prompt Engineering
◽️AI, Human and Ethical Considerations
◽️Democratised AI
◽️AI Evolution
◽️Microsoft Ecosystem
◽️Quantum Computing
◽️Sustainable Cloud Storage
So download⏳grab a cup of Bird & Blend Tea Co. - Gingerbread Chai Tea ☕️& have a listen🛋
Series Sponsored by - Accxia - 𝔼𝕦𝕣𝕠𝕡𝕖'𝕤 𝕃𝕒𝕣𝕘𝕖𝕤𝕥 ℙ𝕣𝕚𝕧𝕒𝕥𝕖 ℂ𝕝𝕠𝕦𝕕 𝕗𝕠𝕣 𝔸𝕥𝕝𝕒𝕤𝕤𝕚𝕒𝕟
Accxia's Landing Page on the Series:- https://www.accxia.com/the-next-generation-cloud
Press release mentioned:
https://www2.deloitte.com/us/en/pages/about-deloitte/articles/press-releases/deloitte-announces-sustainability-initiative-with-google-cloud.html
Next week's guest announced on LinkedIn every Monday. Follow me to see.
ABOUT THE HOST
HeadsTalk #HeadsTalkPodcast #AFlyOnTheBoardroomWall #HTNGCloudSeries
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175 - Eddie Short BM, P: Next Generation Cloud Series - MidEuropa, Data Analytics, Data Analytics, Data Analytics
Épisode 175
mercredi 15 novembre 2023 • Durée 47:57
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Episode Title:- 🇬🇧Data Analytics, Data Analytics, Data Analytics🇬🇧
While this episode is about Data Analytics, AI in the Cloud and the role of the CDAO, there was a poignant talk about the white collar industrial revolution. We have had my guest on Heads Talk before, during the pandemic and this conversation was equally insightful.
Eddie Short is an Executive Director, Private Equity Operating Partner for MidEuropa, Board Advisor; and a former Big 4 Partner. He is currently completing a doctoral programme, bringing his Business Experience and Academic Research to understand how businesses can deliver sustained and sustainable performance through Data, Analytics and AI.
A Global Leader in Digital, Data & AI powered Business Transformation with proven track record to drive Growth, Risk and Cost outcomes, he has:
- Pioneered and led application of Digital, Data, Analytics & AI for bottom and top-line growth.
- Built new Digital and Data products & services in Telecommunications, Financial Services, FMCG and Private Equity.
- Designed, led and delivered on a Global Scale, Transformation Programmes up to $1billion dollars, and across 50 countries.
- He also, uniquely brings the connection between Data, AI and Value, with a focus on People! Creating cross-disciplinary and cross-cultural teams driving Growth and Transformation across Europe, Asia and North America, with Profit and Loss responsibility greater than $100Million Dollars.
We covered a lot in this episode and it was great to have Eddie back on the show.
Topics Covered:
◽️CDO, CDAO, CDAIO, CAO
◽️Rise of Chief Data Analytics Officer
◽️Next Generation Data Analytics
◽️Chief Transformation Officer Today
◽️White Collar Industrial Revolution
◽️Next Generation Data Management
◽️Business Strategy Must Now Include AI Strategy
◽️Good Data Vs Bad Data
◽️Data Engineering and Governance
So download⏳grab a cup of Bird & Blend Tea Co. - Spiced Pumpkin Pie Tea ☕️& have a listen🛋
Series Sponsored by - Accxia - 𝔼𝕦𝕣𝕠𝕡𝕖'𝕤 𝕃𝕒𝕣𝕘𝕖𝕤𝕥 ℙ𝕣𝕚𝕧𝕒𝕥𝕖 ℂ𝕝𝕠𝕦𝕕 𝕗𝕠𝕣 𝔸𝕥𝕝𝕒𝕤𝕤𝕚𝕒𝕟
Accxia's Landing Page on the Series:- https://www.accxia.com/the-next-generation-cloud
Eddie's Previous Episode: 🇬🇧 How to Implement a Data Driven Culture in your Organisation🇬🇧
Follow, Support, Contact Heads Talk® - A Fly On The Boardroom Wall
174 - Roman Mirakhmedov Head: Next Generation Cloud Series - AWS, Cloud Optimisation and Never Stop Learning
Épisode 174
dimanche 12 novembre 2023 • Durée 44:04
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Follow me to see #HeadsTalk Podcast Audiograms every Monday on LinkedInEpisode Title: 🇩🇪Cloud Optimisation and Never Stop Learning🇨🇦
We continue the new #HTNGCloudSeries on Heads Talk with one of the most qualified, if not the most qualified guest on the subject matter. He is a renowned Cloud and Software Expert and has over 25 years of leadership and innovation at scale in his field. Most notably, he is one of a dozen people in the world who hold all 12 Amazon Web Services and 10 Google Cloud Platform certifications. An impressive achievement. And to top this, he is currently completing his PhD in Artificial Intelligence.
Roman Mirakhmedov is the Head of Technology and Principal Architect with Amazon Web Services (AWS). Previously, he held executive roles in a number of companies and was a senior director of cloud consulting with Prodapt.
He is also a visiting professor and thesis supervisor with several universities.
Topics Covered:
◽️Cloud FinOps
◽️Speed and Innovation
◽️Cloud Waste
◽️Cloud Usage and Spend
◽️Hybrid & MultiCloud Strategies & Adoption
◽️Sustainability in the context of Cloud Computing
So download⏳grab a cup of Bird & Blend Tea Co. - Spiced Pumpkin Pie Tea ☕️& have a listen🛋
Series Sponsored by - Accxia - 𝔼𝕦𝕣𝕠𝕡𝕖'𝕤 𝕃𝕒𝕣𝕘𝕖𝕤𝕥 ℙ𝕣𝕚𝕧𝕒𝕥𝕖 ℂ𝕝𝕠𝕦𝕕 𝕗𝕠𝕣 𝔸𝕥𝕝𝕒𝕤𝕤𝕚𝕒𝕟
Accxia's Landing Page on the Series:- https://www.accxia.com/the-next-generation-cloud
Articles Mentioned:
https://www2.deloitte.com/us/en/pages/about-deloitte/articles/press-releases/deloitte-announces-sustainability-initiative-with-google-cloud.html
Next week's guest announced on LinkedIn every Monday. Follow me to see.
ABOUT THE HOST
HeadsTalk #HeadsTalkPodcast #AFlyOnTheBoardroomWall #HTNGCloudSeries
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173 - Divya Bharti & Shanil Ebrahim Partner, Country Head: Next Generation Cloud Series - Deloitte, Evolution of Next Gen Cloud Advisory Services Business
Épisode 173
dimanche 5 novembre 2023 • Durée 29:26
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Episode Title: 🇨🇦Evolution of Next Gen Cloud Advisory Services Business🇨🇦
We continue the new series on Heads Talk, with a conversation with 2 individuals. This episode is so full of great content and insights not just on the Next Generation Cloud (NGC) but on the morphing of the professional services within this. Things have moved quite quickly in the space and it is great to talk to 2 individuals that are at the forefront of this.
Divya Bharti leads Deloitte's Cloud Strategy practice and Shanil Ebrahim a Partner and the National Life Sciences & Healthcare Consulting Leader. Together they delivered gem after gem content for this series.
A must-listen to episode, especially those in the professional services industry.
Topics Covered:
◽️Cloud Evolution
◽️Healthcare Sector Case Studies with NGC
◽️NGC - seen by Technicians, Consultants and Customers
◽️Quantum Computing
◽️Containerisation and Kubernetes
◽️Hybrid & MultiCloud Adoption
◽️Sustainability Cloud Storage
◽️Other Disrupter to Cloud Computing
So download⏳grab a cup of Bird & Blend Tea Co. - Gingerbread Chai Tea ☕️& have a listen🛋
Series Sponsored by - Accxia - 𝔼𝕦𝕣𝕠𝕡𝕖'𝕤 𝕃𝕒𝕣𝕘𝕖𝕤𝕥 ℙ𝕣𝕚𝕧𝕒𝕥𝕖 ℂ𝕝𝕠𝕦𝕕 𝕗𝕠𝕣 𝔸𝕥𝕝𝕒𝕤𝕤𝕚𝕒𝕟
Accxia's Landing Page on the Series:- https://www.accxia.com/the-next-generation-cloud
Press release mentioned:
https://www2.deloitte.com/us/en/pages/about-deloitte/articles/press-releases/deloitte-announces-sustainability-initiative-with-google-cloud.html
Next week's guest announced on LinkedIn every Monday. Follow me to see.
ABOUT THE HOST
HeadsTalk #HeadsTalkPodcast #AFlyOnTheBoardroomWall #HTNGCloudSeries
Follow, Support, Contact Heads Talk® - A Fly On The Boardroom Wall
172 - Adam Russell CISO: Next Generation Cloud Series - Oracle, From a Blocker to an Enabler
Épisode 172
dimanche 29 octobre 2023 • Durée 44:57
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Episode Title: 🇺🇸From a Blocker to an Enabler🇺🇸
This is the start of the new series on Heads Talk, the Next Generation Cloud Series. Introduced by Adam Russell, Chief Information Security Officer (CISO) & VP of Oracle Cloud Infrastructure & Industries. He is an accomplished cybersecurity expert with over two decades in his field.
Responsible for leading the Security of Next-Generation Solutions for Oracle Cloud, ensuring the safeguard of the company’s enterprise, cloud infrastructure; and applications used by Oracle's customers.
Adam's extensive background includes working as a Technical Intelligence Officer and security researcher for the US government. A respected professor and occasional lecturer at the University of Portland, he frequently shares his knowledge and expertise with the next generation of Cybersecurity Professionals.
Topics Covered:
◽️Partnerships with AI/ML organisations
◽️Edge Computing, Technology & Integration
◽️AI-Based Data Analytics & GPU
◽️Cybersecurity Today
◽️Hybrid & MultiCloud Strategies & Adoption
◽️Sustainability in the context of Cloud Computing
So download⏳grab a cup of Bird & Blend Tea Co. - Blue Raspberry ☕️& have a listen🛋
Series Sponsored by - Accxia - 𝔼𝕦𝕣𝕠𝕡𝕖'𝕤 𝕃𝕒𝕣𝕘𝕖𝕤𝕥 ℙ𝕣𝕚𝕧𝕒𝕥𝕖 ℂ𝕝𝕠𝕦𝕕 𝕗𝕠𝕣 𝔸𝕥𝕝𝕒𝕤𝕤𝕚𝕒𝕟
Accxia's Landing Page on the Series:- https://www.accxia.com/the-next-generation-cloud
Next week's guest announced on LinkedIn every Monday. Follow me to see.
ABOUT THE HOST
HeadsTalk #HeadsTalkPodcast #AFlyOnTheBoardroomWall #HTNGCloudSeries
Follow, Support, Contact Heads Talk® - A Fly On The Boardroom Wall
171 - Craig Walker CIO & Gisela Abbam Chair : Shell & GPC - LookBack Series
Épisode 171
dimanche 22 octobre 2023 • Durée 27:57
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The New Series on Heads Talk starts NEXT WEEK. Tune in on Monday for the promo video and the episodes thereafter. Excited!!! In the meantime and for the time being, here is the last of the Lookback Series episode.
Episode Titles:
- 🇬🇧It's the Data, Stupid!🇬🇧
- 🇬🇧 Out of the box is the only way to be. A dissection on innovation and creativity 🇬🇧
In the next few weeks, during this summer holiday period, I will be introducing, especially for some of the newer listeners , guests of Heads Talk from previous series.
I would like to share some of the memorable snippets of my conversations with them. There will be two guests in each episode and they will be introduced accordingly.
Heads Talk
Full Episodes
- Craig Walker EP:017: It's the Data, Stupid!
- Gisela Abbam EP:019: Out of the box is the only way to be. A dissection on innovation and creativity
#HeadsTalk #HeadsTalkPodcast #AFlyOnTheBoardroomWall
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170 - Orlena Nwokah Blanchard Managing Partner: Co-creator of The CROWN Coalition - Corporate World and The Crown Act
Épisode 170
dimanche 15 octobre 2023 • Durée 38:37
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Episode Title:- 🇺🇸Corporate World and The Crown Act🇺🇸
In this 170th episode of Heads Talk, I am joined by Orlena Nwokah Blanchard, Managing director of Seven Elements Group and the Co-creator of The CROWN Coalition. This was an impactful conversation about the 'Politics of Hair' and the role business, government, social bodies and in particular corporations play.
Orlena is a cultural marketing executive, a true marketing thought leader and one of the pioneers of the now renowned Crown Act. See comments for further information about this groundbreaking act. I had an enlightening conversation with Orlena about the world of marketing and longstanding har discrimination in the social and corporate worlds. Another must listen to episode.
Topics Covered:
◽️The Crown Act
◽️ Morphing of Marketing
◽️ Cultural Marketing Strategy
◽️ Brand Management in the era of Generative AI
◽️ Credible Marketing Thought Leaders
◽️ Corporate World Adaption To Change
◽️ The 7 Elements of Culture
So download⏳grab a cup of Bird & Blend Tea Co - Great British Cuppa Tea ☕️& have a listen🛋
Episode Sponsored by - Accxia - 𝔼𝕦𝕣𝕠𝕡𝕖'𝕤 𝕃𝕒𝕣𝕘𝕖𝕤𝕥 ℙ𝕣𝕚𝕧𝕒𝕥𝕖 ℂ𝕝𝕠𝕦𝕕 𝕗𝕠𝕣 𝔸𝕥𝕝𝕒𝕤𝕤𝕚𝕒𝕟
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