“Assume AI does everything..." In this episode of the FutureCraft Marketing podcast, hosts Ken Roden and Erin Mills discuss prompt refinement with ChatGPT and Claude and how AI can be used for personal health goals. Special guest Matt Hines shares his expertise on leveraging AI for personalization, customer journey mapping, and segmentation. The conversation explores strategic planning, innovation, and the future of AI-driven marketing, highlighting practical tips and ethical considerations. The episode wraps up with a review of Chat Hub GG, a tool for comparing different AI models, and concludes with a call to action for listeners to engage with the podcast community.

 

00:55 Ken's AI Prompt Enhancements

06:05 Matt Heinz on AI and Job Market Shifts

07:55 AI in B2B Marketing Strategies

11:07 Hyper-Personalization in B2B

14:23 AI's Role in Customer Journey and Decision Making

17:44 The Infinite Loop in Customer Journey

22:20 AI's Role in Content Creation

22:52 Top AI Use Cases in Marketing

24:47 AI for Market Positioning

26:29 Customer Journey and AI

27:45 Personalization and Omni-Channel Experience

29:26 AI in Segmentation and Targeting

34:03 Quickfire AI Tips and Tricks

 

Key Takeaways:

• Strategic AI Use Cases: AI can be effectively used for research, synthesis, and understanding market opportunities, which helps create hyper-personalized customer experiences.
• AI in Customer Journeys: AI can significantly enhance mapping out customer journeys, understanding their needs, and identifying potential churn points, leading to better customer retention and engagement.
• Competitive Differentiation: Employing AI to analyze competitors and identify market gaps can provide a competitive edge, allowing for more strategic positioning.
• Job Transformation: AI replaces mundane tasks, enabling marketers to focus on strategic initiatives rather than routine operations.
• Segmentation and Targeting: AI can help marketers better understand their segments and prioritize their target audiences, leading to more efficient and effective marketing campaigns.

About our Guest:

Matt Heinz is a nationally recognized, award-winning blogger and the president and founder of Heinz Marketing. With over 15 years of experience in marketing and business development, Matt has worked with various organizations, including Amazon, Seagate, Morgan Stanley, and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Known for creating predictable, repeatable sales and marketing engines that fuel growth, Matt is a dynamic speaker and leader of the well-regarded CMO Coffee Chat group. 

Notable Quotes:

• "Assume AI can do everything, and you'll be surprised at how much it can, which you've been doing manually and inefficiently." - Matt Heinz
• "AI can be a proxy for getting closer to your customer today." - Matt Heinz
• "Think of AI as a really smart intern that can do a bunch of the dirty work for you." - Matt Heinz
• "Assume you won't keep up with all of the AI news. Just find a couple of people that align with your worldview and follow them." - Matt Heinz
• "The ability to create a model of your ideal customer and ask it questions enables more personalized and relevant customer engagement." - Matt Heinz

Resources:

• Connect with Matt on LinkedIn
• Heinz Marketing

Stay tuned for more insightful episodes from the Futurecraft Marketing podcast, where we continue to explore the evolving intersection of AI and marketing. Take advantage of the full episode for in-depth discussions and much more!

To listen to the full episode and stay updated on future episodes, visit the FutureCraft Marketing Podcast website.

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered advice. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are our own and do not represent those of any company or business we currently work for/with or have worked for/with in the past.

Music: Far Away - MK2

Episode Summary:

In this week’s episode of the Futurecraft Marketing podcast, hosts Ken Roden and Erin Mills interview guest Lara Shackelford, a prominent AI strategist and thought leader, about moving beyond use case frenzy and getting strategic with AI-first and focused strategies. Throughout the discussion, they explore the nuances of implementing AI in marketing beyond basic use cases.

00:00 Introduction and Podcast Disclaimer

00:27 Meet Your Hosts: Ken and Erin

00:52 Exploring AI in Marketing

03:14 Guest Introduction: Lara Shackelford

03:42 Diving into AI Strategies with Lara

07:54 The Future of AI in Marketing

16:29 Frameworks for AI Integration

22:39 Creating Effective Focus Groups with AI

23:26 Hyper-Personalization in Customer Experience

24:18 Challenges and Innovations in Telecom Marketing

28:16 Global Economic Trends and AI Strategies

30:52 The Future of Work: Project-Based Engagements

35:01 Measuring ROI in AI-Driven Marketing

41:44 Practical AI Tips and Tools for Marketers

46:21 Reviewing Canva's AI-Powered Features

48:52 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Key Takeaways:

• AI Integration Strategy: Lara Shackelford emphasizes the significance of AI literacy across all organizational levels and the dual exploratory and exploitative approach to integrating AI in business processes.
• Customer Experience: Hyper-personalization through AI-driven contextual marketing can significantly enhance customer experience, moving beyond ‘creepy’ personalization to more welcomed and relevant interactions.
• AI-First vs. AI-Enabled: The nuanced differences between AI-first and AI-enabled go-to-market strategies and their implications for crafting robust marketing plans are the subject of a pivotal discussion.
• Dynamic Project-Based Work: The potential shift towards project-based engagements and dynamic work structures facilitated by AI could redefine traditional employer-employee relationships, offering more flexibility and efficiency.
• Future AI Trends: Lara forecasts further advancements in real-time, dynamically adjusting marketing messages and the pivotal role of sophisticated data utilizalization

About our Guest:

Lara Shackelford is an influential thought leader and executive in AI and marketing. Currently heading Fieri AI, a company that emphasizes building trust between businesses and customers through AI, Lara has a diverse professional background with roles at major tech companies such as Intel, Oracle, and Microsoft. She has also contributed significantly to startups like Datastax and Looker. Recognized as a LinkedIn top voice in AI, Lara strongly advocates diversity in tech and has been lauded for her innovative approach to integrating AI into marketing strategies to boost customer satisfaction and operational excellence.

Notable Quotes:

• “One of the biggest parts is focus groups. We spent a couple hundred thousand dollars on focus groups that took months... In the end, GenAI comes out and I just posed the question... and it gave me back the term we chose.” - Lara Shackelford
• “We can be more responsive to markets today and look at things like dynamic pricing and offers... AI can feed into our sales process, our proposal creation, and more.” - Lara Shackelford
• “If you can change and adjust your message in real-time, and that can then dynamically change the message on your website... marketing is going to get the real lift.” - Lara Shackelford
• “Companies are demonstrating already... with layoffs showing an emerging gig economy where scaling up and down is becoming normalized.” - Lara Shackelford

Resources:

• LinkedIn - Lara Shackelford
• Fieri AI Website
• Paul Roetzer
• Ethan Mollick

Stay tuned for more insightful episodes from the Futurecraft Marketing podcast, where we continue to explore the evolving intersection of AI and marketing. Take advantage of the full episode for in-depth discussions and much more!

 

To listen to the full episode and stay updated on future episodes, visit the FutureCraft Marketing Podcast website.

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered advice. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are our own and do not represent those of any company or business we currently work for/with or have worked for/with in the past.

Music: Far Away - MK2

Episode Summary: 

Hosts Ken Roden and Erin Mills interview Andy Crestodina, co-founder and CMO of Orbit Media. They discuss the impact of AI on search and SEO, the future of AI in marketing, and how marketers can leverage AI tools to improve their content strategy. Andy shares insights on using AI for on-page optimization, link building, and gaining deeper insights from analytics data. He emphasizes the importance of maintaining a human touch in content creation and offers tips for validating and improving AI-generated content. The conversation also explores the potential of AI in sales enablement and the challenges of keeping up with AI advancements in marketing.

00:55 Generative AI Experiences 04:44 Guest Interview: Andy Crestodina on SEO and AI 06:09 AI's Impact on Search and SEO 23:48 Leveraging AI for Marketing and Sales 24:54 Optimizing Sales with AI Insights 27:18 AI in Content Creation and Strategy 30:03 Future of AI in Marketing 38:36 Practical AI Tips and Tools Key Takeaways:

• AI is disrupting the search experience with the rise of search generative experiences (SGEs) and the potential decline in traditional search usage.
• While AI can be useful for generating content ideas and optimizing on-page elements, marketers must add their expertise and personal touch to create memorable and impactful content.
• Marketers should focus on creating a strong digital footprint and getting their brand mentioned on various online platforms. AI may prioritize mentions with elevator pitches over high-domain authority links.
• AI can identify gaps in content and persona-based messaging, helping marketers create more targeted and relevant content.

 

About our Guest:

Andy Crestodina: Co-founder and CMO of Orbit Media, a digital agency specializing in web design and development. With 24 years of experience, Andy is an expert in SEO, content marketing, and conversion optimization. He is the author of "Content Chemistry: The Illustrated Handbook for Content Marketing."

Notable Quotes:

• "AI is just another input. It's just another point of view. You can take it or leave it and move on." - Andy Crestodina
• "Be a person. Draw a line in the sand, plant a flag, have a point of view. Try that. You will sound different." - Andy Crestodina

Resources:

• Orbit Media
• Digital Marketing Tips Newsletter
• Content Chemistry: The Illustrated Handbook for Content Marketing

 

Thank you for listening to the Future Craft Marketing Podcast. Please subscribe and give us a review if you enjoyed today’s content.

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered advice. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are our own and do not represent those of any company or business we currently work for/with or have worked for/with in the past.

Music: Far Away - MK2

Episode Summary: 

In this episode, hosts Ken Roden and Erin Mills talk AI and brand marketing with guest Karrie Sanderson. They discuss how AI is reshaping marketing and the importance of leveraging AI for customer research and deeper insights. Karrie emphasizes the need for brands to maintain authenticity and build trust with customers in the age of AI. She also shares strategies for safeguarding brand reputation, handling PR and crisis management, and educating customers about AI ethics. The conversation highlights the role of AI in enhancing media outreach, finding the right influencers, and differentiating brands in a crowded market.

00:53 AI in Everyday Life: Ken's Fashion Experiment

04:40 AI's Impact on Brand Marketing

16:58 AI in PR and Brand Protection

24:42 Navigating AI Adoption: Tips and Cautions

25:47 AI's Role in PR and Crisis Management

28:52 AI as a Differentiator in Recruitment

34:18 Practical AI Tips and Tools

41:10 Tech Review: Descript

44:51 Final Thoughts and Takeaways

 

Key Takeaways:

• AI is reshaping marketing by providing valuable insights and streamlining processes across the entire marketing team.
• Leveraging AI for customer research can provide deeper insights and better brand positioning.
• Balancing AI and human creativity is crucial for maintaining authenticity and building trust with customers.
• Brands should be proactive in preparing for deepfakes and establishing crisis communication plans.
• Organizations should have AI ethics committees to ensure responsible and ethical AI usage.
• AI can optimize media outreach, monitor trends, and enhance PR efforts, but human judgment is still essential in PR and crisis management.

About our Guest:

Karrie Sanderson is a visionary marketing leader known for driving growth and innovation across industries, including SaaS, healthcare, consumer products, and more. With a background in engineering, Karrie leverages her data-driven approach to provide effective strategies for brand and market development. She is the founder of KES Consulting and has held leadership positions at companies such as Coca-Cola, Starbucks, Typeform, and Smartsheet.

Notable Quotes:

• "Understanding that brand is about reputation and credibility is key when discussing AI and brand." - Karrie Sanderson
• "AI tools allow you to inject your brand voice and key messages, making it easier to stay on brand." - Karrie Sanderson
• "Humans are emotional decision-makers, so injecting emotion into your brand messaging is crucial for authenticity." - Karrie Sanderson
• "Using AI for proactive PR efforts can help identify emerging trends and topics to pitch and avoid oversaturation." - Karrie Sanderson
• "Educating employees about AI and encouraging them to report any suspicious content can help protect your brand." - Karrie Sanderson

Resources:

• KES Consulting
• Marketing AI Institute

Thank you for listening to the Future Craft Marketing Podcast. Please subscribe and give us a review if you enjoyed today’s content.

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered advice. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are our own and do not represent those of any company or business we currently work for/with or have worked for/with in the past.

Music: Far Away - MK2

Episode 4: Marketing Is in Its AI Era: Strategies, Tools, and Insights with Tahnee Perry Interview: Tahnee Perry Episode Summary:

In this episode, hosts Ken Roden and Erin Mills explore the ways AI is reshaping marketing strategies with Tahnee Perry, an expert in AI-powered marketing. They discuss the accessibility of AI tools for marketers, the benefits of using AI in content creation and distribution, and the importance of maintaining a human touch in marketing. Tahnee shares practical tips for incorporating AI into marketing workflows and maximizing productivity. She also highlights the impact of AI on personalization and the future of marketing.

00:54 Exploring AI Tools: ChatGPT vs. Claude in Marketing

02:23 Personalizing AI: Crafting Custom GPTs

04:02 Insights: Tahnee Perry on AI-Driven Marketing Strategies

14:21 Maximizing Content Creation with AI: Tools and Strategies

28:19 AI's Impact on Marketing Distribution and Personalization

28:55 Exploring Programmatic SEO and Personalized Content

31:35 Navigating the MarTech Landscape: Selection and Integration

33:51 Implementing AI in Marketing: Challenges and Strategies

35:25 Maximizing Productivity with AI Tools

Key Takeaways:

• AI tools, such as ChatGPT and Gemini, are becoming more accessible and affordable, allowing marketers to experiment and integrate AI into their workflows.
• Custom GPTs can be created to refine messaging and generate personalized content based on audience insights and brand guidelines.
• AI can help marketers brainstorm ideas, synthesize customer data, and create targeted content that resonates with their audience.
• Collaboration and human input are essential for maintaining a human touch in marketing while leveraging AI tools for efficiency and productivity.
• Marketers should assess their existing tools and resources before investing in new AI technologies, considering integration capabilities and long-term viability.

About our Guest:

Tahnee Perry is a leading expert in AI-powered marketing and the author of "Zero to Unicorn." With over a decade of experience in digital marketing innovation, Tahnee helps businesses harness the power of AI to transform their marketing strategies. She has presented at major industry events and contributed to publications like Forbes and Medium.

Notable Quotes:

• "AI is not replacing people yet. It helps elevate people who are still developing their skills." - Tahnee Perry
• "The key is sitting down and figuring out what you want to do and what outcome you're looking for. Then find the right AI tool and experiment to add efficiency to your workflow." - Tahnee Perry
• "AI can help you think through all the different steps to come up with your marketing plan and identify your ideal customer profile. It adds efficiency and momentum to your work." - Tahnee Perry

Resources:

• Tahnee Perry's newsletter, "Zero to Unicorn": Link
• Follow Tahnee Perry on LinkedIn
• Liza Adams’ Frameworks: Link
• Opus Clips: Link
• Reclaim: Link
• Read.ai: Link
• Veed.io: Link
• Mutiny: Link
• SmartCat: Link

To listen to the full episode and stay updated on future episodes, visit the FutureCraft Marketing Podcast website.

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered advice. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are our own and do not represent those of any company or business we currently work for/with or have worked for/with in the past.

Music: Far Away - MK2

Episode Summary: 

In this episode, hosts Ken Roden and Erin Mills dive into marketing operations and analytics and discuss how generative AI is transforming MOPs. They share personal experiences with AI, such as using ChatGPT to solve tech issues and uploading personas for board meetings. Then, Ken and Erin talk to Grant Grigorian, a marketing operations expert and CEO of Mogi Technologies. Grant discusses the current applications of generative AI in marketing operations and the potential for AI to enhance reporting and decision-making. He emphasizes the importance of data literacy and the role of generative AI in democratizing data. Grant also shares insights on the future of AI in marketing and the challenges and opportunities it presents.

00:28 Real-Life AI Applications in Marketing

03:26 Exploring AI in Marketing Operations

04:05 Interview with Grant Gregorian: AI in Marketing Ops

08:00 Generative AI and Data Democratization

21:12 The Challenge of Data Overload

21:46 Key KPIs for Marketing Operations

23:29 Integrating AI into Marketing Strategies

26:42 Generative AI's Impact on MarTech

32:55 Practical AI Tips and Future Insights

 

Key Takeaways:

• The power of generative AI lies in its ability to explain and verbalize data, making complex data accessible and actionable for marketers.
• The future of marketing operations involves personalized communication and tailored insights based on individual data literacy levels.
• AI can enhance customer journey mapping by providing insights into customer behavior and predicting the best-case customer journey.
• The integration of generative AI into the MarTech landscape will lead to increased content ideation, data analysis, and personalized communication.

 

About our Guest:

Grant Grigorian is the co-founder and CEO of Mogi Technologies, a tool that simplifies marketing data analysis and delivers actionable insights and recommendations to marketing teams. With over a decade of experience in marketing analytics, Grant has a deep understanding of marketing operations and the power of data. Prior to Mogi, Grant worked at Engagio as the Director of Product Management, where he helped define customer journeys and track account stages. He also co-founded Path to Scale, a company focused on multi-touch attribution modeling, which was later acquired by Engagio. Grant is known for his expertise in marketing operations and his ability to demystify complex data analytics.

 

Notable Quotes:

• "Generative AI gives us a chance to create data literacy across our teams." - Grant Grigorian
• "We're sitting on huge amounts of data, but we lack the vocabulary to explain and interpret it effectively." - Grant Grigorian
• "Generative AI can help marketers at all levels of expertise by providing insights and recommendations tailored to their needs." - Grant Grigorian

 

Resources:

• Grant Grigorian on LinkedIn
• Mogi Technologies

To listen to the full episode and stay updated on future episodes, visit the FutureCraft Marketing Podcast. Please subscribe and give us a review if you enjoyed today’s content.

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered advice. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are our own and do not represent those of any company or business we currently work for/with or have worked for/with in the past.

Music: Far Away - MK2

Episode Summary:

In this episode of the FutureCraft Marketing Podcast, hosts Ken Roden and Erin Mills explore the future of AI in marketing with guest Liza Adams. Liza shares her insights on how AI can elevate the strategic value of marketing and drive business growth. She introduces her three-step AI adoption accelerator approach, which focuses on inspiring marketers, aligning use cases with strategic initiatives, and implementing responsible AI operations. Liza also discusses the challenges and opportunities of AI adoption in different industries and provides practical advice for bridging the skills gap in organizations. The episode concludes with a tech review of Copy AI, a tool that helps marketers get started with AI-powered content creation.

About our Guest:

Liza Adams is a visionary leader with over two decades of experience steering businesses and marketing teams through pivotal industry changes. As a co-founder at GrowthPath Partners, she spearheads the adoption of responsible AI through a practical three-step AI adoption accelerator approach. Liza is an influential voice in AI and has been recognized at G2's reach event. She was also named one of the 50 CMOs to watch in 2024 by Pavilion. With a focus on growth strategies and global brand building, Liza is passionate about leveraging AI to make businesses more profitable while positively impacting society and fostering inclusive growth.

 

Chapters:

00:51 Exploring AI Innovations with Ken and Erin

02:55 AI's Role in Marketing and Beyond: Insights and Predictions

00:01 Introducing Liza Adams: A Visionary in AI and Marketing

08:58 The Three-Step AI Adoption Accelerator Approach

24:41 Practical Steps to Start with AI: Liza's Advice

27:58 Exploring the Skills Gap in AI Adoption

28:38 Three Key Strategies for AI Proficiency

30:06 Leveraging AI for Diversity, Equity, & Inclusion

32:10 Promoting Diverse Voices in AI

34:55 AI and Organizational Diversity Initiatives

46:13 Wrapping Up: The Human Aspect of AI Innovation

47:41 Tech Review: Exploring Copy AI

Key Takeaways:

• AI can elevate the strategic value of marketing by providing deep market insights, personalization, and automation.
• Liza's three-step AI adoption accelerator approach includes inspiring marketers with use cases, aligning use cases with strategic initiatives, and implementing responsible AI operations.
• Companies should start with what they have in terms of AI tools and gradually expand their adoption as trust and performance improve.
• Responsible use of AI is crucial, and organizations should establish guardrails and involve cross-functional teams to ensure ethical and secure implementation.
• Bridging the skills gap in AI adoption requires providing access to tools, promoting responsible use, and inspiring curiosity and experimentation.

Notable Quotes:

• "We can't out-campaign a bad product-market fit." - Liza Adams
• "Understanding, access, and acceptance are key to unlocking the value of AI." - Liza Adams
• "We cannot blog post our way to 2.6 trillion dollars." - Liza Adams
• "Curiosity is a skill that we need to have in the changing world of AI." - Liza Adams

Resources:

• Liza Adams' LinkedIn profile: Liza Adams
• GrowthPath Partners website: GrowthPath Partners
• Templates & Frameworks: https://www.growthpath.net/resources/
• ChatHubGG(affiliate link)

Listen to the full episode on the FutureCraft Marketing Podcast and stay tuned for more insightful discussions on the future of AI in marketing.

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered advice. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are our own and do not represent those of any company or business we currently work for/with or have worked for/with in the past.

Music: Far Away - MK2

In the debut episode of the FutureCraft Marketing Podcast, hosts Ken Roden and Erin Mills will kick off the discussion about the intersection of AI and marketing. They discuss their experiences using AI in their everyday lives and how it has transformed their marketing strategies. Ken and Erin talk about practical insights and tips for marketers looking to leverage AI. The episode features a special guest, Nicole Leffer, a pioneer in AI and marketing, who shares her journey into AI and marketing, the future impact of AI on marketing strategies, and advice for marketers hesitant about AI. The hosts also review the AI research tool, Perplexity AI, and its potential applications for marketers.

and Content Creation

02:13 AI's Role in Marketing and Personalization 03:22 The Genesis of the Podcast 05:38 Special Guest: Nicole Leffer on AI and Marketing 08:14 The Future Impact of AI on Marketing 12:13 Key Focus Areas for Marketers Using AI 13:41 Enhancing Creativity and Productivity with AI 17:32 The Evolving Role of Marketing Professionals in the AI Era 20:44 Mastering ChatGPT for Advanced Tool Integration 23:24 Elevating LinkedIn Posts with AI Automation 26:02 Anticipating the Next Big Thing in AI Technology 29:08 Quick-Fire AI Tips and Tools for Marketers 34:29 Exploring Perplexity AI as a Research Tool 37:50 Reflecting on the First Episode and Future Directions About our Guest:

Nicole Leffer is a trailblazer in the AI in marketing world. She is renowned for her expertise in integrating general AI technology and helping B2B marketing teams get better, faster, and smarter through her training and insights. She has seen great success as a marketing leader, leveraging AI in her team, and as an early adopter of generative AI. Nicole is dedicated to training marketing leaders and teams on how to harness the power of AI effectively, from content marketing to demand gen and social media. She founded Nicole Leffer Consulting and offers online courses for marketers looking to enhance their AI skills.

Notable Quotes:

• "Don't assume it's psychic. You gotta tell it what you want, how you want it, whatever context it needs, like clearly communicate what you want. It doesn't know if you don't tell it." - Nicole Leffer
• "The role is going to evolve to be the person controlling AI. You are the director of what the AI system does. You're the one with this institutional knowledge and the human perspective." - Nicole Leffer

Resources:

• Nicole Leffer's LinkedIn: Nicole Leffer
• Nicole Leffer's website: Nicole Leffer Consulting
• “You Are” GPT
• Perplexity AI: Perplexity AI

To listen to the full episode and gain more insights into the future of AI in marketing, tune in to the FutureCraft Marketing Podcast. Stay tuned for more episodes featuring industry pioneers and practical tips for leveraging AI in your marketing career.

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered advice. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are our own and do not represent those of any company or business we currently work for/with or have worked for/with in the past.

Music: Far Away - MK2

 

Join us every Thursday for FutureCraft Marketing, the podcast that explores the cutting-edge intersection of AI and marketing. Hosted by industry veterans Ken Roden and Erin Mills, each episode dives deep into how artificial intelligence (AI) is revolutionizing every aspect of marketing, from branding to demand generation.

Whether you're a CMO looking to stay ahead of the curve, a marketing professional eager to incorporate AI into your toolkit, or simply an enthusiast fascinated by the future of technology, FutureCraft Marketing has something for you. Ken and Erin go beyond hypotheticals to unpack real-world use cases, best practices, and actionable insights you can apply today.

Join them as they interview pioneering leaders, test drive the latest AI-powered marketing tools, and guide you through thought-provoking discussions - all with a dash of humor and inspiration. From evolving your overarching strategy to navigating the nitty-gritty of implementation, FutureCraft Marketing is your go-to resource for making sense of AI's transformative potential.

No matter where you are in your marketing career, this podcast will expand your horizons and prepare you to thrive in the AI era. Subscribe now on your favorite platform so you don't miss a single conversation. The future of marketing is here - let's craft it together on FutureCraft Marketing.

 

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered advice. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are our own and do not represent those of any company or business we currently work for or have worked for in the past.

Music: Far Away - MK2

Join hosts Ken Roden and Erin Mills as they reflect on an incredible Season 2 of the FutureCraft GTM podcast. From pilot purgatory to agent swarms, they unpack how AI in go-to-market evolved throughout the year, share their biggest lessons learned, and make bold predictions for 2026.

Key Topics Covered

Season 2 Reflections [00:01:00]

• The slow start vs. strong finish of AI adoption
• Pilot purgatory and why 95% of AI rollouts struggled
• The accordion effect of AI tools throughout the year

Guest Predictions Review - "They Called It" [00:04:00]

• Rachel Tru Air on AI SDRs: Still a work in progress
• Chase Hannigan on no-code agentic systems: Ahead of the curve
• Liza Adams on EQ being the edge: Called it perfectly

Major Themes That Emerged [00:08:00]

• Adoption over tools as the key to success
• AI as teammate vs. AI as output generator
• The "sandwich model" - humans at both ends, AI in the middle
• Curiosity and EQ as critical differentiators

What Failed This Year [00:10:00]

• AI vendor spray-and-pray marketing
• Custom GPT overload (600 GPTs at one company!)
• Rolling out LLMs without proper change management

Business Impact Wins [00:17:00]

• Speed to market improvements
• Analytics accessibility for non-technical users
• 600% more time on site from AI-driven traffic
• Time auditing as a measurement strategy

Personal Lightning Round [00:32:00]

• Most overhyped buzzword: AIEO
• Underrated tool: N8N
• Biggest personal unlock: Self-regulation with AI use
• Best use case: Digital twins and content workflows

2026 Predictions [00:24:00]

• Agent swarms and workforces (Erin's pick)
• Digital twins as the hero (Ken's pick)
• Closed company-specific LLMs
• Fractional AI experts with their own agent teams
• New organizational structures emerging

Notable Quotes

"AI is like an intern with a PhD who doesn't have any business experience" - Ken

"Digital twins are great, but I think it's gonna be swarms" - Erin

"It's 90% focus on the people and 10% on the execution now, not the other way around" - Erin

"Get your hands dirty. Because this is new to everybody, there's a real need to understand what your team is going through" - Erin

Guests Mentioned This Episode

• Liza Adams
• Rachel Truair (Simpro)
• Chase Hannegan
• Sheena Miles
• Rebecca Shaddix
• Chris Penn

Key Takeaways

1. Change management is critical - 80% focus on people, 20% on execution
2. Start with boring problems - Don't chase the sexiest AI use cases
3. Define acceptable mistakes - Know when to call a pilot a failure
4. Agent swarms are the future - Moving beyond single-purpose tools
5. Communities matter - AI has opened unprecedented knowledge sharing
6. Speed to market - Months-long processes now taking days or hours

Resources Mentioned

• N8N workflow automation platform
• Relevance AI
• Lindy
• ElevenLabs (voice)
• Planet Money AI recruiting segment
• Chris Penn's analytics community

Coming in Season 3 (March 2026)

• Human agentic workflows with verification stopgaps
• Agent swarm implementations
• New modalities: voice and video applications
• More on the Iron Man suit approach to fractional AI work

Share what you want to see in Season 3 & Connect with the Hosts:

• Ken Roden
• Erin Mills

 

About FutureCraft

Stay tuned for more insightful episodes from the FutureCraft podcast, where we continue to explore the evolving intersection of AI and GTM. Take advantage of the full episode for in-depth discussions and much more.

To listen to the full episode and stay updated on future episodes, visit our website, https://www.futurecraftai.media/

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered advice. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are our own and do not represent those of any company or business we currently work for/with or have worked for/with in the past.

Music: Far Away - MK2

Boring Problems, Big Wins, Community‑Driven AI Adoption

AI is not overhyped, it is under-implemented. Ken Roden and Erin Mills chat with Sheena Miles on how to move from tool obsession to behavior change, her three stage framework, and the practical KPIs that prove progress before revenue shows up. We also talk AI policy that unlocks safe experimentation, community as an accelerator, and Sheena demos how she spins up n8n workflows from a prompt.

Chapter markers

00:00, Cold open and disclaimer 01:00, Is AI overhyped, what is really failing 03:20, Early indicators versus lagging revenue, set better goals 04:20, Exec view, target 3 percent faster time to market 06:00, Avoid AI slop, find repetitive, boring work 07:00, Guest intro 09:00, Real state of adoption, dual speed orgs and siloed champions 10:45, Teach concepts, not tools 12:00, Policy, security review, AI council 14:00, Behavior beats features 15:30, Community for accountability and shared assets 17:30, Live n8n demo, import a skeleton workflow and adapt 35:00, AI first versus AI native, embed into workflows 36:30, Influence without authority, solve a champion’s boring problem 38:00, Inclusion and usage gaps, why it matters to the business 40:00, Skills that matter now, prompting, rapid testing, communicating thought process 43:00, Why to be optimistic 45:00, Lightning round 48:00, Host debrief and takeaways

Key takeaways

• Hype versus reality, most failures are vague goals and tool-first rollouts, not AI itself. • Measure what you can now, speed to market, cycle time, sprint throughput, ticket deflection, before revenue. • Framework, Activate, Amplify, Accelerate, start small, spread what works, then institutionalize. • Policy unlocks velocity, simple rules for data and tool vetting plus a cross functional council. • Behavior over features, learn inputs and outputs so skills transfer across tools. • Community compounds, accountability and shared templates speed learning. • Start with boring problems, compliance questionnaires, asset generation, ticket clustering, call insights. • AI first versus AI native, move from sidecar to embedded with human review gates. • Inclusion is a business lever, close usage gaps or accept a productivity gap.

Sheena’s three stage framework

Activate, prove value safely • Define the problem, validate AI fit, run a small pilot. • Track accuracy thresholds and time saved. • Example, auto draft responses to repetitive compliance questionnaires from a vetted knowledge base.

Amplify, spread what works • Connect adjacent teams, add light governance, share patterns. • Run cross team pilots and publish playbooks. • Example, connect support tickets, payments, compliance, partner success to detect issues proactively.

Accelerate, institutionalize • Assign ownership, embed training, integrate tools, set ROI guardrails. • Roll out across channels and systems with quality gates. • Example, ad copy system owned by demand gen, content as QA, used across paid, email, social.

Hot Takes from Sheena

“Policy enables speed if you write it to unblock safe experiments.” “Stop memorizing tool steps, learn the concepts so they transfer.” “Solve the boring problem first, that is where AI pays for itself.” “If NRR belongs to someone, it belongs to everyone.”

Resources & Links

• Sheena Miles on LinkedIn
• Women Defining AI, podcast and community
• n8n

About FutureCraft

Stay tuned for more insightful episodes from the FutureCraft podcast, where we continue to explore the evolving intersection of AI and GTM. Take advantage of the full episode for in-depth discussions and much more.

To listen to the full episode and stay updated on future episodes, visit our website, https://www.futurecraftai.media/

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered advice. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are our own and do not represent those of any company or business we currently work for/with or have worked for/with in the past.

Music: Far Away - MK2

In this episode of The FutureCraft Go To Market podcast, co-hosts Ken Roden and Erin Mills talk to speaker Mike Sweeney, a strategic executive coach, shares his expertise on leadership, emotional intelligence, and managing paradoxes during times of rapid change. Mike emphasizes the importance of adopting a mindset that balances competing truths, managing stress, and fostering team dynamics in high-pressure environments. 

 

The duo also discusses creating ICP profiles, leveraging ICP insights for content blueprints, and discusses tools like Typeset for professional branding. Erin also demonstrates a new AI tool called 'Lovable' for developing front-end applications effortlessly. 

 

00:00 Introduction and Podcast Overview

00:22 Exploring AI in Go-To-Market Strategies

00:55 Ken's AI Adventures and Content Blueprint

02:39 Erin's AI Prompting App

03:57 Introducing Guest Mike Sweeney

04:45 Leadership in AI and Change Management

07:41 Understanding Leadership Paradoxes

17:45 Creating Common Ground in Leadership

24:31 Advice for Leaders Under Pressure

29:15 Characteristics of Great Teams

31:51 Navigating AI Transition Pressures

33:54 Aligning AI Initiatives with Strategic Goals

35:22 Thriving Through Organizational Change

39:54 Introducing Rally Bright

44:01 Emotional Intelligence in Leadership

52:33 Exploring Lovable: A New Development Tool

01:02:16 Conclusion and Reflections

 

This episode covers the transformational impact of AI on go-to-market strategies. The episode kicks off with Ken sharing about his custom baking assistant, Idiot Proof Bake Buddy, which organizes baking recipes and grocery lists using GPT. 

 

The main highlight of the episode is the interview with Jonathan Kvarfordt a.k.a. Coach K. He is the Head of Growth at Momentum.io and CEO of GTM AI Academy. Coach K discusses the current state and future trends of AI in go-to-market functions. He emphasizes the importance of trust, education, and intent when implementing AI solutions. He also explores the mindset shifts necessary for successful AI integration and shares his vision of an 'Iron Man' style AI plugin for enhanced go-to-market efficiency. The conversation covers practical tips for AI adoption, common pitfalls, and the evolving roles of sales and marketing in an AI-driven landscape. The episode concludes with a rapid-fire round where Coach K shares insights on AI tools, prompting techniques, and industry trends.

 

00:00 Introduction and Podcast Disclaimer

00:22 Meet Your Hosts: Ken and Erin

00:54 Ken's Custom GPT for Baking

02:13 Erin's GPT Tips and Tricks

03:53 Guest Introduction: Jonathan Kvarfordt

04:29 Jonathan's Journey and Roles

05:19 AI in Go-To-Market Teams

06:28 Challenges and Overwhelm in AI Adoption

06:57 Practical AI Workflows and Automations

10:27 Trust, Education, and Intent in AI

13:57 Intentional Use of AI in Teams

18:21 Common Pitfalls in AI Implementation

19:21 The Importance of Creative AI Prompting

19:43 Mindset Shifts for AI Adoption

20:02 The Four C's of AI Mindset

21:26 Leadership and AI Integration

22:52 Sales and Marketing Alignment with AI

25:10 Future of AI in Business Roles

26:48 Human-AI Collaboration in Go-to-Market Strategies

33:26 Rapid Fire Round: AI Tools and Trends

35:00 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

 

AI, BDRs & Building a GTM Team of the Future – with Rachel Truair, CMO at Simpro Group

Episode Title: How to Scale GTM with AI Agents, Digital Twins & a Growth Mindset

Still wondering how AI fits into go-to-market? This episode delivers a masterclass in what actually works—from real AI SDR deployments to digital twins for execs. If you’re leading a GTM team, Rachel Truair's playbook is required listening.

What We Talk About:

• AI SDRs that actually convert: Rachel shares how Simpro's AI BDRs (like Daniella and Sam) are handling warm leads, executing playbooks, and integrating with human reps—cutting "no contact" rates by 80%.

• Workforce planning in an AI era: Learn why Rachel's biggest surprise wasn’t in sales, but marketing ops.

• Autonomous strategy, not just execution: She breaks down the shift from AI as a tool to AI as a co-pilot for market insights, segmentation, and campaign direction.

• Digital twins for leadership scale: How Rachel created a digital twin of herself to scale comms, culture, and visibility across global teams—including writing her monthly team updates.

• How to evolve your org without boiling the ocean: Practical tips on building a maturity model for AI and where to start with lean teams.

• AI and culture change: Why adoption isn't a tooling problem, it's a hiring one. And what questions she now asks in interviews.

Rapid Fire Round:

• Best AI tip: Don't boil the ocean.

• Favorite workflow: Digital twin board members for scenario planning.

• Go-to AI trend source: Simpro's exec Slack.

• Hidden gem tool: Peak AI for search visibility.

Tool Spotlight: Ken and Erin demo Eleven Labs' conversational AI agent builder and walk through creating a journalist-style interviewer bot that captures SME insights for content, enablement, and more.

Call to Action: Not using AI yet in GTM? Let us know. We want to talk to you. Reach out for a chance to be featured on a future episode.

Subscribe, Rate & Share: If you got value from this episode, hit subscribe and leave a review—it helps more GTM teams learn how to lead (not lag) with AI.

Connect:

• Simpro Group: https://www.simprogroup.com

• ElevenLabs: https://elevenlabs.io

• Six Sense Conversational Email: https://6sense.com

Subscribe, give us a rating and share with a friend! It helps us get the word out. FutureCraft is where GTM gets built, not just discussed. Let’s keep crafting the future together.

 

We're back. In the first episode of Season 2 of the FutureCraft Podcast, Ken Roden and Erin Mills dig into how AI is shifting the entire go-to-market motion. Not just content, but sales enablement, market strategy, and execution.

They share how they're using tools like ChatGPT, Gamma, and structured research to build battle cards that actually move deals. They also break down what’s working—and what’s not—when it comes to driving adoption on lean teams.

This episode covers practical ways AI can support speed and clarity without adding complexity. It closes with personal updates and an open call for listener ideas as the show evolves.

 

Unpacking the AI Toolbox

• Digital Focus Groups and AI-Assisted Research: Our hosts take us through an intricate process of leveraging AI-driven focus groups and deep research tools to gain valuable insights about customer behavior and preferences.
• The Power of Synthesis and Presentation Tools: With the help of platforms like Gamma, they illustrate how to transform comprehensive research into polished, actionable battle cards for sales teams, effectively bridging the gap from data gathering to strategic execution.

00:00 Introduction and Disclaimer

00:22 Welcome to Season Two

01:28 Hosts' Personal and Professional Updates

03:58 AI's Rapid Advancements

06:30 Deep Dive into AI Tools and Techniques

09:06 Building a Digital Focus Group

17:34 Leveraging Deep Research for Competitive Intelligence

25:31 Leveraging AI for Content Strategy

26:02 Impact of AI-Driven Traffic on User Engagement

27:20 Credibility and Organic Traffic in AI Models

28:21 Deep Research and Customization in AI

32:50 Creating Consumable Content with AI

34:16 Optimizing Competitive Analysis with AI Tools

40:00 Enhancing Presentation and Design with Gamma

47:49 Integrating AI Tools for Efficient Workflows

51:09 Season 2 Overview and Future Directions

What happens when an Atlassian marketing veteran who decorates cakes and rides motorcycles decides the traditional marketing funnel is completely broken? You get Ashley Faus, Head of Lifecycle Marketing Portfolio at Atlassian, author of "Human-Centered Marketing," and today's guest on FutureCraft.

Ashley has spent 8+ years at Atlassian revolutionizing how B2B marketers think about customer journeys, replacing linear funnels with her "content playground" framework where audiences can go up, down, and sideways through your content—just like kids on an actual playground.

In this episode, we get into:

• Why ChatGPT 5 might be getting worse for marketing professionals (and what to use instead)
• Erin's live demo of Gemini's deep research for account-based marketing that analyzes hundreds of sources
• Ashley's content playground framework that treats audiences like humans, not funnel steps
• How trust becomes your only defensible moat when AI can fake everything else
• Why organizational silos are killing your customer experience (and how to fix them)
• The "18-month rule" for career evolution in an AI-accelerated world

Whether you're a CMO fighting for budget, a product marketer drowning in requests, or a lifecycle specialist trying to prove ROI, Ashley breaks down how to keep humans at the center while leveraging AI as your creative co-pilot.

 

🛠 Tools & Mentions:

• ChatGPT 5 (improved memory but weaker professional responses)
• Gemini Pro (superior deep research capabilities)
• Atlassian Rovo (AI agents and integrations)
• Notebook LM (content analysis and mind mapping)
• CASINO Framework (Context, Audience, Scope, Intent, Narrator, Outcome)
• Content Playground Model (conceptual, strategic, tactical content depths)

 

🎯 Try This:

Map your existing content using Ashley's playground framework: sticky note brainstorm → group themes → classify by depth (conceptual/strategic/tactical) and intent (buy/use/trust/help/learn).

🧠 Learn More from Ashley:

Follow Ashley Faus on LinkedIn

Read "Human-Centered Marketing: How to Connect with Audiences in the Age of AI"

Explore Atlassian's Team Playbook

Timestamps:

00:00 Introduction and Disclaimer 02:15 Ken's ChatGPT 5 Reality Check 05:45 Erin's Gemini Deep Research Breakthrough 07:30 Live Demo: Account Research That Actually Works 18:20 Interview with Ashley Faus Begins 20:15 From Classical Singer to Marketing Revolutionary 25:40 Why She Wrote "Human-Centered Marketing" Now 32:10 Trust: The Thing You Can't Automate 38:25 Content Playground Framework Deep Dive 52:30 Breaking Down Marketing Silos Without Losing Your Mind 58:45 The 18-Month Rule for Career Evolution 01:02:15 Gladiator Round: AI-Powered Debate Prep 01:08:30 Lightning Round Rapid Fire 01:12:45 Key Takeaways and Episode Wrap

 

📥 Subscribe & Share:

New episodes drop weekly. If Ashley's playground framework changed how you think about customer journeys, leave a review, share it with a friend, and tag us with your biggest takeaway.

About our Guest:

Ashley Faus is the Head of Lifecycle Marketing Portfolio at Atlassian, author of "Human-Centered Marketing: How to Connect with Audiences in the Age of AI," and a Forbes contributor. In more than eight years at Atlassian, she's spanned corporate communications, product marketing, and lifecycle leadership. She's become known for replacing traditional marketing funnels with her content playground model, advocating for audience trust over vanity metrics, and showing how creativity—from musical theater to elaborate cakes—makes us better marketers.

Resources:

Ashley's Book: "Human-Centered Marketing: How to Connect with Audiences in the Age of AI"

LinkedIn: Ashley Faus

Stay tuned for more insightful episodes from the FutureCraft podcast, where we continue to explore the evolving intersection of AI and GTM. Take advantage of the full episode for in-depth discussions and much more.

To listen to the full episode and stay updated on future episodes, visit the website.

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered advice. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are our own and do not represent those of any company or business we currently work for/with or have worked for/with in the past.

Music: Far Away - MK2

Episode Summary: Rebecca Shaddix joins Erin and Ken to blow up tired go-to-market tropes and rewrite what it means to lead with product marketing in an AI-native era. She shares the frameworks behind “acceptable mistakes,” why critical thinking is the superpower in a world of noisy AI outputs, and how to avoid chasing 80 experiments that go nowhere. If you’re a CMO, PMM, or founder trying to separate signal from AI hype, this is your roadmap.

About Our Guest: Rebecca Shaddix is the Head of Product & Lifecycle Marketing at Garner Health, Forbes contributor, and GTM strategy pioneer. She’s built GTM engines for high-growth SaaS and EdTech, founded Strategica, and is known for making complex data actionable (without losing trust or speed). Her frameworks are shaping the new AI playbook for marketers who want repeatable results, not just activity.

00:59 Ken's AI Sandwich Framework

04:26 Erin's AI-Powered Book Series

07:10 Interview with Rebecca Shaddix

08:24 Rebecca on Acceptable Mistakes in AI Implementation

17:44 AI's Impact on Product Marketing

23:30 Balancing AI Training and Deep Research

28:41 AI Tools and Budget Constraints

30:32 Navigating the Rapid Evolution of AI in Business

30:59 Balancing Risk and Reward in AI Tool Selection

32:44 Effective Team Collaboration and AI Integration

37:08 Building Trust in AI Insights

45:15 The Future of Product Marketing

54:13 Lightning Round and Final Thoughts

 

Quote of the Episode: “Trust in AI starts with transparency and ends with collaboration. Bring your teams in early, and let them own the process.” – Rebecca Shaddix

🎧 What You’ll Learn:

• How to Make (the Right) Acceptable Mistakes: Rebecca’s “acceptable mistakes” framework—why defining what you won’t optimize is the move that unlocks true speed and clarity for GTM leaders.
• Experiments Without Strategy Are Chaos: Why most teams run too many experiments and how to build a ruthless prioritization model that gets buy-in before the test.
• The Real Role of AI in Product Marketing: How AI gives PMMs “junior analyst superpowers” but why human discernment, critical thinking, and cross-functional trust still win the day.
• Segmentation, ICP, and the New Power User: How machine learning is uncovering hidden patterns in the middle of your user base (not just among your superfans)—and why most marketers overweight the wrong signals.
• Building Trust in AI-Generated Insights: Rebecca’s battle-tested approach to cross-functional buy-in, demystifying black box outputs, and making AI actionable across the org.
• Budgeting for AI When Cash Is Tight: The no-BS guide to picking AI tools (hint: treat it like every other investment—hypothesis, use case, ROI) and why you should always start manual.

🧠 Next-Level Insights:

• The difference between motion and momentum in modern marketing—why activity ≠ impact
• Why the “blank page” problem is now dead for good (and why that changes who wins in marketing teams)
• How to democratize AI experimentation without losing control—or trust
• The hidden risk: Over-relying on your top users for feedback and missing the 10x opportunity in the “middle layer”

Action Steps

• Audit your own “acceptable mistakes.” What are you over-optimizing that doesn’t matter?
• Try running a single, ruthlessly prioritized experiment—get buy-in, define the problem, THEN launch
• Empower your team to bring AI wins (and failures) to the table—share the learning
• Stop listening only to your power users. Find what the “middle” is doing and why.

Resources Mentioned:

• Human-Centered Marketing by Ashley Faus
• ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini (and why switching tools is easier than switching marketing automation)
• LinkedIn: Connect with Rebecca Shaddix

Stay tuned for more FutureCraft episodes at futurecraftai.media

Liked this episode? Rate us on Spotify/Apple, share with a forward-thinking marketer, or DM us with what you want to hear next. Let’s keep crafting the future of GTM, together.

Music: Far Away - MK2

We talk with Lennard Kooy, CEO of Lleverage, about why nobody actually cares about AI—they care about outcomes. Lennard drops hard truths on why most companies are moving too slow, how to accelerate adoption by assisting before replacing, and where agentic workflows are creating real ROI. He also demos a live “gladiator challenge” of building a cold outreach AI agent from scratch, and outlines what every GTM leader needs to do right now to stay relevant.

Whether you're a RevOps pro, a BDR sick of cold calls, or a CMO trying not to get fired—this is your wake-up call.

 

04:43 Interview with Lennard Kooy

09:36 AI-Powered Recruitment and Sales Automation

14:29 Adopting AI in Business Processes

21:29 Practical AI Workflow Demonstration

23:40 Generating Company Lists and Lead Data

24:24 Simplifying Automation for Users

24:47 User Experience and Customer Support

25:39 Quick Wins for New Users

28:10 Potential of Agentic AI in Go-to-Market

30:59 Guardrails for Adopting AI

32:32 The Power of MCP in AI Integration

35:25 Mid-Market Focus and ROI

37:34 Future of AI in Professional Roles

39:41 Advice for Go-to-Market Leaders

42:29 Quick Hits: Practical AI Tips

44:57 Final Thoughts and Takeaways

Key Topics

• Reality Check: Why most businesses don’t care about AI—and what they do care about
• The Trust Layer: How “assist before replace” is the cheat code for adoption
• Recruiting Reinvented: How Lleverage AI automated 70% of their hiring pipeline
• Agentic GTM: Where agent workflows are replacing cold calls, research, and lead scoring
• Demo Time: Watch Lennard build an AI agent live, in under 5 minutes
• MCP Advantage: Why this new spec removes dev bottlenecks and boosts AI usability
• Speed > Perfection: Why going slow will kill your competitive edge
• Hard Truths for Leaders: You will get replaced if you don’t move faster
• Future of Work: What GTM roles look like in a near-agentic future

About our Guest:

Lennard Kooy is a seasoned tech entrepreneur focused on how emerging technologies can transform business operations. As CEO of AI platform Lleverage, he helps companies automate complex processes without requiring technical expertise, drawing from his experience building and selling martech company Storyteq to ITG.

Known for his pragmatic approach to AI adoption, Lennard regularly shares insights on making advanced automation accessible to everyday business teams. He's passionate about strengthening Europe's position in the global AI landscape and frequently writes about the practical realities of implementing AI in enterprise settings.

🔨 Practical Takeaways

3 Quick Wins for New AI Users

1. Start with something visual, with visible output, not backend automations
2. Keep workflows small (≤5 blocks) to understand what’s happening
3. Build in areas where you have subject-matter expertise—test what you know

Stay tuned for more insightful episodes from the FutureCraft podcast, where we continue to explore the evolving intersection of AI and GTM. Take advantage of the full episode for in-depth discussions and much more.

To listen to the full episode and stay updated on future episodes, visit the FutureCraft GTM website.

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered advice. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are our own and do not represent those of any company or business we currently work for/with or have worked for/with in the past.

Music: Far Away - MK2

In this episode of the FutureCraft GTM Podcast, hosts Ken Roden and Erin Mills reunite with returning favorite Liza Adams to discuss the current state of AI adoption in marketing teams. Liza shares insights on why organizations are still struggling with the same human change management challenges from a year ago, despite significant advances in AI technology. The conversation covers practical frameworks for AI implementation, the power of digital twins, and Liza's approach to building hybrid human-AI marketing teams. The episode features Liza's live demonstration in our new Gladiator segment, where she transforms a dense marketing report into an interactive Jeopardy game using Claude Artifacts.

Unpacking AI's Human Challenge

Liza returns with a reality check: while AI tools have dramatically improved, the fundamental challenge remains human adoption and change management. She reveals how one marketing team successfully built a 45-person organization with 25 humans and 20 AI teammates, starting with simple custom GPTs and evolving into sophisticated cross-functional workflows.

• The Digital Twin Strategy: Liza demonstrates how creating AI versions of yourself and key executives can improve preparation, challenge thinking, and overcome unconscious bias while providing a safe learning environment for teams.
• The 80% Rule for Practical Implementation: Why "good enough" AI outputs that achieve 80-85% accuracy can transform productivity when combined with human oversight, as demonstrated by real-world examples like translation and localization workflows.
• Prompt Strategy Over Prompt Engineering: Liza explains why following prompt frameworks isn't enough—you need strategic thinking about what questions to ask and how to challenge AI outputs for better results.

00:00 Introduction and Balance Quote 00:22 Welcome Back to FutureCraft 01:28 Introducing Liza Adams 03:58 The Unchanged AI Adoption Challenge 06:30 Building Teams of 45 (25 Humans, 20 AI) 09:06 Digital Twin Framework and Implementation 17:34 The 80% Rule and Real ROI Examples 25:31 Prompt Strategy vs Prompt Engineering 26:02 Measuring AI Impact and ROI 28:21 Handling Hallucinations and Quality Control 32:50 Gladiator Segment: Live Jeopardy Game Creation 40:00 The Future of Marketing Jobs 47:49 Why Balance Beats EQ as the Critical Skill 51:09 Rapid Fire Questions and Wrap-Up

Edited Transcript:

Introduction: The Balance Between AI and Human Skills

As AI democratizes IQ, EQ becomes increasingly important. Critical thinking and empathy are important, but I believe as marketers, balance is actually more important.

Host Updates: Leveraging AI Workflows

Ken Roden shares his approach to building better AI prompts by having full conversations with ChatGPT, exporting them to Word documents, then using that content to create more comprehensive prompts. This method resulted in more thorough market analysis with fewer edits required.

Erin Mills discusses implementing agentic workflows using n8n to connect different APIs and build systems where AI tools communicate with each other. The key insight: break workflows down into steps rather than having one agent handle multiple complex tasks.

Guest Introduction: Liza Adams on AI Adoption Challenges

Liza Adams, the AI MarketBlazer, returns to discuss the current state of AI adoption in marketing teams. Despite significant technological advances, organizations still struggle with the same human change management challenges from a year ago.

The Core Problem: Change Management Over Technology

The main issue isn't about AI tools or innovation - teams can't simply be given ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, and Perplexity and be expected to maximize their potential. Marketing teams are being handed tools while leaders expect employees to figure out implementation themselves.

People need to see themselves in AI use cases that apply to their specific jobs. Joint learning sessions where teams share what works and what doesn't are essential. The focus has over-pivoted to "what's the right tool" when it should be on helping people understand, leverage, and make real impact with AI.

The AI Adoption Plateau

Many organizations face an AI adoption plateau where early adopters have already implemented AI, but a large group struggles with implementation. Companies attempting to "go fully agentic" or completely redo workflows in AI are taking on too much at once.

Success Story: The 45-Person Hybrid Team

Liza shares a case study of a marketing team with 45 members: 25 humans and 20 AI teammates that humans built, trained, and now manage. They started with simple custom GPTs, beginning with digital twins.

Digital Twin Strategy for AI Implementation

Digital twins are custom GPTs trained on frameworks, thinking patterns, publicly available content, and personality assessments like Myers-Briggs. These aren't designed to mimic humans but to learn about them and find blind spots, challenge thinking patterns, and overcome unconscious bias.

For executive preparation, team members use digital twins of leadership to anticipate questions, identify gaps in presentations, and prepare responses before important meetings.

The progression: Simple digital twins → Function-specific GPTs (pitch deck builders, content ideators, campaign analyzers) → Chained workflows across multiple departments (marketing, sales, customer success).

Prompt Strategy vs. Prompt Engineering

Following prompt frameworks (GRACE: Goals, Role, Action, Context, Examples) isn't enough if the underlying thinking is basic. AI magnifies existing thinking quality - good or bad.

Example: Instead of asking "How do I reduce churn?" ask "Can you challenge my assumption that this is a churn problem? Could this data indicate an upsell opportunity instead?"

This transforms churn problems into potential revenue opportunities through different strategic thinking.

The 80% Rule for Practical AI Implementation

AI outputs achieving 80-85% accuracy can transform productivity when combined with human oversight. Example: A team reduced translation and localization costs from tens of thousands of dollars monthly to $20/month using custom GPTs for eight languages, with human review for the final 15-20%.

Measuring AI ROI: Three Strategic Approaches

• Align with Strategic Initiatives: Connect AI projects to existing company strategic initiatives that already have budgets, resources, and executive attention.
• Focus on Biggest Pain Points: Target areas where teams will invest resources to solve problems - excessive agency costs, overworked teams, or poor quality processes.
• Leverage Trailblazers: Identify curious team members already building AI solutions and scale their successful implementations.

Handling AI Hallucinations and Quality Control

AI models hallucinate 30-80% of the time when used as question-and-answer machines for factual queries. Hallucinations are less common with strategic questions, scenario analysis, and brainstorming.

Prevention strategies:

• Limit conversation length and dataset size to avoid context window limitations
• Use multiple AI models to cross-check outputs
• Implement confidence checking: Ask AI to rate confidence levels (low/medium/high), explain assumptions, and identify what additional information would increase confidence

Live Demo: Claude Artifacts for Interactive Content

Liza demonstrates transforming the 2025 State of Marketing AI report into an interactive Jeopardy game using Claude Artifacts. The process involves uploading a PDF, providing specific prompts for game creation, and generating functional code without technical skills.

This "vibe coding" approach allows users to describe desired outcomes and have AI build interactive tools, calculators, dashboards, and training materials.

Future of Marketing Jobs and Skills

Emerging roles: AI guides, workflow orchestrators, human-AI team managers Disappearing roles: Language editors, basic researchers, repetitive design tasks Transforming roles: Most existing positions adapting to include AI collaboration

Critical skill for the future: Balance

• Innovation with ethics
• Automation with human touch
• Personalization with transparency

Balance may be more important than emotional intelligence as AI democratizes cognitive capabilities.

Key Takeaways

The Gladiator segment demonstrates how dense research reports can become engaging, interactive content without engineering resources. Making AI implementation fun helps teams stay balanced and avoid overwhelm.

Success comes from starting with tiny AI wins rather than comprehensive strategies, focusing on human change management over tool selection, and building systems that augment rather than replace human creativity.

This version removes the conversational back-and-forth while preserving all the searchable content people would look for when researching AI implementation, digital twins, prompt strategy, change management, and practical AI use cases.

Stay tuned for more insightful episodes from the FutureCraft podcast, where we continue to explore the evolving intersection of AI and GTM. Take advantage of the full episode for in-depth discussions and much more.

----more----

To listen to the full episode and stay updated on future episodes, visit the FutureCraft GTM website.

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered advice. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are our own and do not represent those of any company or business we currently work for/with or have worked for/with in the past.

Episode Summary: In this packed episode, Lacey Miller joins Erin and Ken to demystify what it means to be a "Go-to-Market Engineer" in today’s AI-fueled marketing landscape. She breaks down how she uses agentic AI workflows to build repeatable, high-output growth systems without the team bloat. If you’ve ever wondered how AI changes content strategy, brand building, or TikTok for B2B... this is your playbook.

🎧 What You’ll Learn:

• Why the first 100 days in a marketing role now demands a full AI-first mindset
• How AEO (Answer Engine Optimization) flips SEO on its head and what it means for your content
• The creative tech stack behind Lacey’s agent-led outbound machine (yes, Lindy + Replit + persona recognition)
• Why brand visuals and voice need prompt engineering too
• How AI is changing buying behavior—and what smart marketers are doing in response
• Practical ways to use podcasts, transcripts, and conversational content to win in LLM search
• The real ROI of TikTok for B2B and why your team needs a “TikTok hour”

🛠️ Gladiator Round: Behind the Scenes of Lacey’s Stack Lacey walks through how she classifies inbound leads, triggers AI workflows, and scales one-to-one GTM—all without a dev team. You’ll see her build live in Replit and Lindy.

📢 Next Steps

• Try using NotebookLM to create your own podcast content
• Share your AI wins or roadblocks with us on Twitter @FutureCraftpod

 

01:00 Ken's AI Journey: Building Connectors

02:16 Erin's AI Research Project

03:37 Guest Introduction: Lacey Miller

04:24 Lacey Miller's Marketing Insights

07:43 The Role of AI in Modern Marketing

11:37 AI-Driven Search and Content Strategies

16:57 Challenges and Opportunities in AI Marketing

22:12 Future of AI in B2B Marketing

25:01 SEO Strategies for AI Enthusiasts

25:38 Trends in User Engagement

26:50 The Evolution of Search Behavior

29:22 Disrupting Traditional Advertising

36:01 The Rise of TikTok in B2B Marketing

40:20 Practical AI Tools for Marketers

41:17 Lightning Round: Quick Marketing Insights

44:09 Final Thoughts and Takeaways

About our Guest: Lacey Miller

Lacey Miller is a highly experienced and impactful marketing executive, currently spearheading Growth Marketing at Perigon, an AI context engine. She is recognized for her innovative approaches to AI Visibility Optimization (AIVO), "Answer-Engine Optimization (AEO)," and pioneering TikTok-for-B2B playbooks. She focuses on  how to leverage ai in saas b2b in  content marketing As a proven first-hire marketing leader, Lacey specializes in building robust Go-to-Market (GTM) strategies from the ground up, particularly for B2B, developer, and enterprise AI SaaS products. Her expertise lies in translating complex technical capabilities into compelling narratives that resonate with diverse audiences and drive revenue growth. At Perigon, she is actively driving category creation, positioning the company as a leader in real-time AI context. Prior to Perigon, Lacey served as Head of Marketing at Bezi, where she built the initial GTM framework and integrated AI into product strategy. Her experience also includes building high-performing marketing functions at LoudCrowd, where she significantly contributed to ARR and fundraising, and leading full-funnel GTM strategies at VertifyData. Notable Quotes:

“Robots are making us sound more human.” “You can’t blog your way into LLMs—you need conversation.” “AI is not your replacement, it’s your multiplier.” “Your GPT isn't a toy. It’s your co-pilot.” “We’re not just building campaigns anymore—we’re building products.”

Resources:

Lindy.ai

Stay tuned for more insightful episodes from the FutureCraft podcast, where we continue to explore the evolving intersection of AI and GTM. Take advantage of the full episode for in-depth discussions and much more.

To listen to the full episode and stay updated on future episodes, visit the FutureCraft GTM website.

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered advice. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are our own and do not represent those of any company or business we currently work for/with or have worked for/with in the past.

Music: Far Away - MK2

In this high-velocity, truth-telling episode, Erin and Ken sit down with data scientist, author, and newsletter legend Christopher Penn to cut through the noise and the slop around AI and go-to-market.

Chris breaks down how today’s AI isn’t solely about scale or speed it’s about whether your thinking actually changes how people lead. From RAGs and reporting frameworks to the future of SaaS, software, and your own job, this conversation pulls zero punches.

🔹 Why most AI content (and dashboards) still suck 🔹 Frameworks for better prompting (and better results) 🔹 A live demo: turning backlink chaos into a strategy-ready infographic 🔹 What CMOs are really asking about AI (and what they should be) 🔹 The real threat to SaaS, higher ed, and your entry-level bench 🔹 Why personal brand is your last, best insurance policy in an AI world

This episode is full of practical frameworks, spicy truths, and no-BS advice from someone who’s been shipping AI before it was cool. A must-listen for anyone serious about GTM in an AI-saturated market.

 

00:00 Introduction and Podcast Disclaimer

00:24 Meet Your Hosts: Ken and Erin

00:51 AI in Go-To-Market Strategies

02:11 Creative Uses of AI in Daily Life

03:09 Guest Introduction: Chris Penn

04:33 Chris Penn on Early AI and Analytics

06:59 Thought Leadership in the Age of AI

13:07 Frameworks for Effective AI Utilization

18:56 Data-Driven Marketing with AI

23:17 Gladiator Round: Practical AI Demonstration

25:48 Personal AI Preferences

26:07 Creating a Backlink Infographic

27:59 The Power of Infographics in Marketing

29:25 AI Hype and Misconceptions

31:10 Optimization vs. Transformation with AI

33:21 The Future of SaaS and AI

34:12 Guardrails and Ethics in AI

36:02 Challenging the AI Status Quo

41:03 The Impact of AI on Jobs and Education

47:33 Building Personal Brand and Community

49:40 Concluding Thoughts on AI and the Future

About our Guest:

Christopher S. Penn is a leading expert in the fields of artificial intelligence (AI), marketing, and data science. He is widely recognized for his work in helping businesses understand and leverage data and AI for marketing insights and strategies.

As the co-founder and Chief Data Scientist at Trust Insights, a marketing analytics consulting firm, Penn focuses on applying data science, AI, and machine learning to help companies achieve their marketing goals. His expertise extends to:

• Google Analytics Adoption: He has been influential in the widespread use of Google Analytics for marketing.
• Data-Driven Marketing and PR: Penn advocates for and implements strategies that are heavily reliant on data for informed decision-making in marketing and public relations.
• Modern Email Marketing: He has shaped approaches to effective and data-backed email marketing campaigns.
• Marketing Data Science: Penn is a pioneer in the application of data science principles specifically to marketing challenges.
• AI/Machine Learning in Marketing: His work began in AI in 2013, well before the mainstream emergence of tools like ChatGPT, giving him a deep understanding of its potential and practical applications in the marketing landscape.

Christopher S. Penn is a prolific author, with over two dozen marketing books to his name, including the bestsellers "AI for Marketers: A Primer and Introduction" and "Leading Innovation." He is also the co-host of the award-winning "Marketing Over Coffee" podcast, where he discusses new and classic marketing topics with his co-host, John J. Wall.

His work has benefited a diverse range of prominent brands such as Cisco Systems, T-Mobile, Citrix Systems, GoDaddy, AAA, McDonald's, and Twitter. He is a multi-time IBM Champion in IBM Data and AI. Penn is also a sought-after international keynote speaker, known for demystifying complex AI concepts and providing actionable insights for marketers.

Resources:

• Almost Timely Newsletter
• Almost Timeless Book

Stay tuned for more insightful episodes from the FutureCraft podcast, where we continue to explore the evolving intersection of AI and GTM. Take advantage of the full episode for in-depth discussions and much more.

To listen to the full episode and stay updated on future episodes, visit the FutureCraft GTM website.

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered advice. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are our own and do not represent those of any company or business we currently work for/with or have worked for/with in the past.

Music: Far Away - MK2

What do military aviation and AI workflows have in common? According to Chase Hannegan. founder of Chase AI, TikTok viral sensation and today’s guest on Future Craft, it’s all about precision, systems thinking, and being willing to suck at something new.

Chase went from Marine Corps Osprey pilot to TikTok-famous agent builder. He’s now helping thousands of creators and founders move from prompt experiments to real agent-powered execution—no coding required.

In this episode, we get into:

• Why n8n is Chase’s go-to platform for building practical, scalable agents
• The difference between AI workflows and true agents (and why most people get stuck)
• How to avoid YouTube tutorial hell and actually learn to build with intelligence
• A live walkthrough of Chase’s personal assistant agent (and how you can steal it)
• What’s not ready for prime time (yet), and how to build trust into your stack

Whether you're a marketer, founder, or just AI-curious, Chase breaks down agent building in plain language—and shows that it's not about replacing people, but unlocking their time.

🛠 Tools & Mentions:

• n8n (low-code workflow builder)
• Tavily, Eleven Labs, Supabase, Lovable
• Chase’s free GPT builder & assistant templates
• The email agent that drafts your replies before you even open them

🎯 Try This: Start with a “minimum viable agent”—something small that solves one annoying problem in your workflow. Then build from there.

🧠 Learn More from Chase: Follow Chasei on TikTok, YouTube, and Instagram Explore templates and workflows at Chase AI School

 

00:00 Introduction and Podcast Disclaimer

00:24 Meet Your Hosts: Ken and Erin

00:55 Ken's AI Workflow Journey

02:08 Erin's AI Innovations

02:56 Introducing Today's Guest: Chase Hannegan

03:59 Chase Hannegan's Background and AI Journey

05:06 From Military Aviation to AI Building

09:35 Understanding AI Agents vs. Workflows

13:16 Chase's Three-Phase System for AI Projects

18:26 Common Mistakes and Creative AI Solutions

24:27 Scam Stories and Gladiator Round Introduction

24:55 Building a Personal Assistant AI

25:48 Demonstrating AI Tools and Integration

29:09 Voice Interaction and Security Features

32:34 Encouragement for Beginners

34:55 Favorite Time-Saving Automations

43:26 Rapid Fire Questions and Insights

45:33 Final Thoughts and Takeaways

📥 Subscribe & Share: New episodes drop weekly. If this helped you think differently about AI + GTM, leave a review, share it with a friend, and tag us with your biggest takeaway.

About our Guest:

Chase Hannegan

Chase Hannegan is the driving force behind Chase AI, a hands‑on AI learning platform that helps entrepreneurs, creators, and non‑technical professionals harness AI tools—from building agents to automating workflows—through actionable guidance and ready‑to‑use prompt templates. Based in Chicago, he’s currently pursuing a dual MBA/MS in Computer Science at the University of Chicago, bringing a rare fusion of business acumen and technical fluency 

As an educator, Chase publishes weekly insights on AI applications, app‑building strategies, and prompt engineering, backed by an engaged community on Instagram and TikTok under “AI Guides”.

His flagship Chase AI course delivers a 3‑step, non‑technical framework for building AI‑powered applications, with testimonials highlighting its accessibility and real‑world utility. He has also developed practical tools—like email automation, analytics dashboards, and conversational agents—that serve startups and SMEs with measurable impact across sectors.

 

Resources:

• Chase’s website
• @Chase_AI on Instagram, TikTok
• Chase’s Community on Skool

Stay tuned for more insightful episodes from the FutureCraft podcast, where we continue to explore the evolving intersection of AI and GTM. Take advantage of the full episode for in-depth discussions and much more.

To listen to the full episode and stay updated on future episodes, visit the FutureCraft GTM website.

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered advice. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are our own and do not represent those of any company or business we currently work for/with or have worked for/with in the past.

Music: Far Away - MK2

 

In this episode of Future Craft GTM, Ken Roden and Erin Mills explore how AI is reshaping every layer of go-to-market, from automating rote tasks to powering deep research. They kick off with Ken’s wild DMV robo-caller story and Erin’s bespoke AI-curated newsletter. Returning guest Tahnee Perry shares hard-won lessons on driving revenue with AI, upskilling non-technical marketers, and building scalable AI workflows. You’ll learn how to:

• Measure true AI impact (hint: tie it to closed deals)
• Adopt the right mindset for prompt iteration
• Set up templated prompts and custom GPTs for your team
• Run fast SEO audits with deep research in under 30 minutes
• Assemble a lean AI-powered marketing tech stack
• Strike the optimal balance between human and machine effort

They wrap with a live demo of GenSpark—watch an AI agent spin up an eight-slide pitch deck in seconds—and leave you armed with quick-hit AI workflows you can try today.

 

Key Takeaways

1. Revenue First: Always link AI projects to deal velocity or closed-won impact.
2. Iterate Prompts: 80 % of prompt quality emerges through refinement, not one-and-done.
3. Scale with Libraries: Use spreadsheets or Notion to catalog and tag high-value prompts.
4. DIY SEO Audits: A 30-minute prompt can generate a 20-page SEO audit (36 sources, 292 searches).
5. Tech Stack Essentials: Google/Microsoft agents, Adio CRM, Airtable/Notion PM, plus task-specific AI apps.
6. Human + AI: The winners of 2026 will know exactly where to deploy humans vs. machines.

📢 Next Steps

• Try auto-generating a sales deck from a call transcript this week.
• Build or catalog one custom GPT for your top use case.
• Share your AI wins or roadblocks with us on Twitter @FutureCraftpod

00:00 Introduction and Podcast Disclaimer

00:21 Welcome to Future Craft Go To Market

00:49 AI in Everyday Life: DMV Robocaller Experience

01:50 Building AI Tools for Personal Use

02:32 Guest Introduction: Tahnee Perry

03:44 AI in Marketing: Metrics and Training

05:01 The Importance of Mindset in AI Adoption

08:18 AI Tools and Hacks for Marketers

14:09 Prompt Gladiator Challenge

17:37 Deep Research and SEO Audits

19:31 Top AI Tools and Tech Stack Recommendations

22:03 Exploring SEO and Tech Stack Integration

22:37 Answer Engine Optimization (AEO) Explained

23:42 Building Credibility in AI Search Results

24:10 Future of SEO and AI in Marketing

26:33 Leveraging AI for Workflow Efficiency

28:22 AI's Impact on Product Marketing and Development

29:55 Navigating AI in Recruitment and Team Management

32:37 Overcoming AI Adoption Challenges

34:51 Quick Hits: AI Workflows and Use Cases

39:58 Introducing Gens Spark: A Game Changer for Presentations

43:50 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

About our Guest:

Tahnee Perry is a leading expert in AI-powered marketing and the author of "Zero to Unicorn." With over a decade of experience in digital marketing innovation, Tahnee helps businesses harness the power of AI to transform their marketing strategies. She has presented at major industry events and contributed to publications like Forbes and Medium.

Resources:

• Zero to Unicorn Newsletter

Stay tuned for more insightful episodes from the FutureCraft podcast, where we continue to explore the evolving intersection of AI and GTM. Take advantage of the full episode for in-depth discussions and much more.

To listen to the full episode and stay updated on future episodes, visit the FutureCraft GTM website.

Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered advice. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are our own and do not represent those of any company or business we currently work for/with or have worked for/with in the past.

Music: Far Away - MK2

Why Customer Success Can't Be Automated (And What AI Can Actually Do)

In this special year-end episode of the FutureCraft GTM Podcast, hosts Ken Roden and Erin Mills sit down with Amanda Berger, Chief Customer Officer at Employ, to tackle the biggest question facing CS leaders in December 2026: What can AI actually do in customer success, and where do humans remain irreplaceable?

Amanda brings 20+ years at the intersection of data and human decision-making—from AI-powered e-commerce personalization at Rich Relevance, to human-led security at HackerOne, to now implementing AI companions for recruiters. Her journey is a masterclass in understanding where the machine ends and the human begins.

This conversation delivers hard truths about metrics, change management, and the future of CS roles—plus Amanda's controversial take that "if you don't use AI, AI will take your job."

Unpacking the Human vs. Machine Balance in Customer Success

Amanda returns with a reality check: AI doesn't understand business outcomes or motivation—humans do. She reveals how her career evolved from philosophy major studying "man versus machine" to implementing AI across radically different contexts (e-commerce, security, recruiting), giving her unique pattern recognition about what AI can genuinely do versus where it consistently fails.

The Lagging Indicator Problem: Why NRR, churn, and NPS tell you what already happened (6 months ago) instead of what you can influence. Amanda makes the case for verified outcomes, leading indicators, and real-time CSAT at decision points.

The 70% Rule for CS in Sales: Why most churn starts during implementation, not at renewal—and exactly when to bring CS into the deal to prevent it (technical win stage/vendor of choice).

Segmentation ≠ Personalization: The jumpsuit story that proves AI is still just sophisticated bucketing, even with all the advances in 2026. True personalization requires understanding context, motivation, and individual goals.

The Delegation Framework: Don't ask "what can AI do?" Ask "what parts of my job do I hate?" Delegate the tedious (formatting reports, repetitive emails, data analysis) so humans can focus on what makes them irreplaceable.

Timestamps

00:00 - Introduction and AI Updates from Ken & Erin 01:28 - Welcoming Amanda Berger: From Philosophy to Customer Success 03:58 - The Man vs. Machine Question: Where AI Ends and Humans Begin 06:30 - The Jumpsuit Story: Why AI Personalization Is Still Segmentation 09:06 - Why NRR Is a Lagging Indicator (And What to Measure Instead) 12:20 - CSAT as the Most Underrated CS Metric 17:34 - The $4M Vulnerability: House Security Analogy for Attribution 21:15 - Bringing CS Into Sales at 70% Probability (The Non-Negotiable) 25:31 - Getting Customers to Actually Tell You Their Goals 28:21 - AI Companions at Employ: The Recruiting Reality Check 32:50 - The Delegation Mindset: What Parts of Your Job Do You Hate? 36:40 - Making the Case for Humans in an AI-First World 40:15 - The Framework: When to Use Digital vs. Human Touch 43:10 - The 8-Hour Workflow Reduced to 30 Minutes (Real ROI Examples) 45:30 - By 2027: The Hardest CX Role to Hire 47:49 - Lightning Round: Summarization, Implementation, Data Themes 51:09 - Wrap-Up and Key Takeaways

Edited Transcript Introduction: Where Does the Machine End and Where Does the Human Begin?

Erin Mills: Your career reads like a roadmap of enterprise AI evolution—from AI-powered e-commerce personalization at Rich Relevance, to human-powered collective intelligence at HackerOne, and now augmented recruiting at Employ. This doesn't feel random—it feels intentional. How has this journey shaped your philosophy on where AI belongs in customer experience?

Amanda Berger: It goes back even further than that. I started my career in the late '90s in what was first called decision support, then business intelligence. All of this is really just data and how data helps humans make decisions.

What's evolved through my career is how quickly we can access data and how spoon-fed those decisions are. Back then, you had to drill around looking for a needle in a haystack. Now, does that needle just pop out at you so you can make decisions based on it?

I got bit by the data bug early on, realizing that information is abundant—and it becomes more abundant as the years go on. The way we access that information is the difference between making good business decisions and poor business decisions.

In customer success, you realize it's really just about humans helping humans be successful. That convergence of "where's the data, where's the human" has been central to my career.

The Jumpsuit Story: Why AI Personalization Is Still Just Segmentation

Ken Roden: Back in 2019, you talked about being excited for AI to become truly personal—not segment-based. Flash forward to December 2026. How close are we to actual personalization?

Amanda Berger: I don't think we're that close. I'll give you an example.

A friend suggested I ask ChatGPT whether I should buy a jumpsuit. So I sent ChatGPT a picture and my measurements. I'm 5'2".

ChatGPT's answer? "If you buy it, you should have it tailored."

That's segmentation, not personalization. "You're short, so here's an answer for short people."

Back in 2019, I was working on e-commerce personalization. If you searched for "black sweater" and I searched for "black sweater," we'd get different results—men's vs. women's. We called it personalization, but it was really segmentation.

Fast forward to now. We have exponentially more data and better models, but we're still segmenting and calling it personalization. AI makes segmentation faster and more accessible, but it's still segmentation.

Erin Mills: But did you get the jumpsuit?

Amanda Berger: (laughs) No, I did not get the jumpsuit. But maybe I will.

The Philosophy Degree That Predicted the Future

Erin Mills: You started as a philosophy major taking "man versus machine" courses. What would your college self say? And did philosophy prepare you in ways a business degree wouldn't have?

Amanda Berger: I actually love my philosophy degree because it really taught me to critically think about issues like this.

I don't think I would have known back then that I was thinking about "where does the machine end and where does the human begin"—and that this was going to have so many applicable decision points throughout my career.

What you're really learning in philosophy is logical thought process. If this happens, then this. And that's fundamentally the foundation for AI. "If you're short, you should get your outfit tailored." "If you have a customer with predictive churn indicators, you should contact that customer."

It's enabling that logical thinking at scale.

The Metrics That Actually Matter: Leading vs. Lagging Indicators

Erin Mills: You've called NRR, churn rate, and NPS "lagging indicators." That's going to ruffle boardroom feathers. Make the case—what's broken, and what should we replace it with?

Amanda Berger: By the time a customer churns or tells you they're gonna churn, it's too late. The best thing you can do is offer them a crazy discount. And when you're doing that, you've already kind of lost.

What CS teams really need to be focused on is delivering value. If you deliver value—we all have so many competing things to do—if a SaaS tool is delivering value, you're probably not going to question it.

If there's a question about value, then you start introducing lower price or competitors. And especially in enterprise, customers decide way, way before they tell you whether they're gonna pull the technology out. You usually miss the signs.

So you've gotta look at leading indicators. What are the signs?

And they're different everywhere I've gone.

I've worked for companies where if there's a lot of engagement with support, that's a sign customers really care and are trying to make the technology work—it's a good sign, churn risk is low.

Other companies I've worked at, when customers are heavily engaged with support, they're frustrated and it's not working—churn risk is high.

You've got to do the work to figure out what those churn indicators are and how they factor into leading indicators: Are they achieving verified outcomes? Are they healthy? Are there early risk warnings?

CSAT: The Most Underrated Metric

Ken Roden: You're passionate about customer satisfaction as a score because it's granular and actionable. Can you share a time where CSAT drove a change and produced a measurable business result?

Amanda Berger: I spent a lot of my career in security. And that's tough for attribution.

In e-commerce, attribution is clear: Person saw recommendations, put them in cart, bought them. In hiring, their time-to-fill is faster—pretty clear.

But in security, it's less clear.

I love this example: We all live in houses, right? None of our houses got broken into last night.

You don't go to work saying, "I had such a good night because my house didn't get broken into." You just expect that.

And when your house didn't get broken into, you don't know what to attribute that to. Was it the locked doors? Alarm system? Dog? Safe neighborhood?

That's true with security in general. You have to really think through attribution. Getting that feedback is really important.

In surveys we've done, we've gotten actionable feedback. Somebody was able to detect a vulnerability, and we later realized it could have been tied to something that would have cost $4 million to settle.

That's the kind of feedback you don't get without really digging around for it. And once you get that once, you're able to tie attribution to other things.

Bringing CS Into the Sales Cycle: The 70% Rule

Erin Mills: You're a religious believer in bringing CS into the sales cycle. When exactly do you insert CS, and how do you build trust without killing velocity?

Amanda Berger: With bigger customers, I like to bring in somebody from CX when the deal is at the technical win stage or 70% probability—vendor of choice stage.

Usually it's for one of two reasons:

One: If CX is gonna have to scope and deliver, I really like CX to be involved. You should always be part of deciding what you're gonna be accountable to deliver.

And I think so much churn actually starts to happen when an implementation goes south before anyone even gets off the ground.

Two: In this world of technology, what really differentiates an experience is humans.

A lot of our technology is kind of the same. Competitive differentiation is narrower and narrower. But the approach to the humans and the partnership—that really matters. And that can make the difference during a sales cycle.

Sometimes I have to convince the sales team this is true. But typically, once I'm able to do that, they want it. Because it does make a big difference.

Technology makes us successful, but humans do too. That's part of that balance between what's the machine and what is the human.

The Art of Getting Customers to Articulate Their Goals

Ken Roden: One challenge CS teams face is getting customers to articulate their goals. Do customers naturally say what they're looking to achieve, or do you have a process to pull it out?

Amanda Berger: One challenge is that what a recruiter's goal is might be really different than what the CFO's goal is. Whose outcome is it?

One reason you want to get involved during the sales cycle is because customers tell you what they're looking for then. It's very clear.

And nothing frustrates a company more than "I told you that, and now you're asking me again? Why don't you just ask the person selling?" That's infuriating.

Now, you always have legacy customers where a new CSM comes in and has to figure it out. Sometimes the person you're asking just wants to do their job more efficiently and can't necessarily tie it back to the bigger picture.

That's where the art of triangulation and relationships comes in—asking leading discovery questions to understand: What is the business impact really?

But if you can't do that as a CS leader, you probably won't be successful and won't retain customers for the long term.

AI as Companion, Not Replacement: The Employ Philosophy

Erin Mills: At Employ, you're implementing AI companions for recruiters. How do you think about when humans are irreplaceable versus when AI should step in?

Amanda Berger: This is controversial because we're talking about hiring, and hiring is so close to people's hearts.

That's why we really think about companions.

I earnestly hope there's never a world where AI takes over hiring—that's scary.

But AI can help companies and recruiters be more efficient.

Job seekers are using AI. Recruiters tell me they're getting 200-500% more applicants than before because people are using AI to apply to multiple jobs quickly or modify their resumes.

The only way recruiters can keep up is by using AI to sort through that and figure out best fits.

So AI is a tool and a friend to that recruiter. But it can't take over the recruiter.

The Delegation Framework: What Do You Hate Doing?

Ken Roden: How do you position AI as companion rather than threat?

Amanda Berger: There's definitely fear. Some is compliance-based—totally justifiable.

There's also people worried about AI taking their jobs.

I think if you don't use AI, AI is gonna take your job. If you use AI, it's probably not.

I've always been a big fan of delegation. In every aspect of my life: If there's something I don't want to do, how can I delegate it?

Professionally, I'm not very good at putting together beautiful PowerPoint presentations. I don't want to do it. But AI can do that for me now. Amazingly well.

What I'm really bad at is figuring out bullets and formatting. AI does that.

So I think about: What are the things I don't want to do? Usually we don't want to do the things we're not very good at or that are tedious.

Use AI to do those things so you can focus on the things you're really good at.

Maybe what I'm really good at is thinking strategically about engaging customers or articulating a message. I can think about that, but AI can build that PowerPoint. I don't have to think about "does my font match here?"

Take the parts of your job that you don't like—sending the same email over and over, formatting things, thinking about icebreaker ideas—leverage AI for that so you can do those things that make you special and make you stand out.

The people who can figure that out and leverage it the right way will be incredibly successful.

Making the Case to Keep Humans in CS

Ken Roden: Leaders face pressure from boards and investors to adopt AI more—potentially leading to roles being cut. How do you make the case for keeping humans as part of customer success?

Amanda Berger: AI doesn't understand business outcomes and motivation. It just doesn't. Humans understand that. The key to relationships and outcomes is that understanding. The humanity is really important.

At HackerOne, it was basically a human security company. There are millions of hackers who want to identify vulnerabilities before bad actors get to them.

There are tons of layers of technology—AI-driven, huge stacks of security technology. And yet no matter what, there's always vulnerabilities that only a human can detect.

You want full-stack security solutions—but you have to have that human solution on top of it, or you miss things.

That's true with customer success too.

There's great tooling that makes it easier to find that needle in the haystack. But once you find it, what do you do? That's where the magic comes in. That's where a human being needs to get involved.

Customer success—it is called customer success because it's about success. It's not called customer retention.

We do retain through driving success.

AI can point out when a customer might not be successful or when there might be an indication of that. But it can't solve that and guide that customer to what they need to be doing to get outcomes that improve their business.

What actually makes success is that human element. Without that, we would just be called customer retention.

The Framework: When to Use Digital vs. Human Touch

Erin Mills: We'd love to get your framework for AI-powered customer experience. How do you make those numbers real for a skeptical CFO?

Amanda Berger: It's hard to talk about customer approach without thinking about customer segmentation.

It's very different in enterprise versus a scaled model. I've dealt with a lot of scale in my last couple companies.

I believe that the things we do to support that long tail—those digital customers—we need to do for all customers. Because while everybody wants human interaction, they don't always want it.

Think about: As a person, where do I want to interact digitally with a machine?

If it's a bot, I only want to interact with it until it stops giving me good answers. Then I want to say, "Stop, let me talk to an operator."

If I can find a document or video that shows me how to do something quickly rather than talking to a human, it's human nature to want to do that.

There are obvious limits. If I can change my flight on my phone app, I'm gonna do that rather than stand at a counter.

Come back to thinking: As a human, what's the framework for where I need a human to get involved?

Second, it's figuring out: How do I predict what's gonna happen with my customers? What are the right ways of looking and saying "this is a risk area"? Creating that framework.

Once you've got that down, it's an evolution of combining: Where does the digital interaction start? Where does it stop? What am I looking for that's going to trigger a human interaction?

Being able to figure that out and scale that—that's the thing everybody is trying to unlock.

The 8-Hour Workflow Reduced to 30 Minutes

Erin Mills: You've mentioned turning some workflows from an 8-hour task to 30 minutes. What roles absorbed the time dividend? What were rescoped?

Amanda Berger: The roles with a lot of repetition and repetitive writing.

AI is incredible when it comes to repetitive writing and templatization. A lot of times that's more in support or managed services functions.

And coding—any role where you're coding, compiling code, or checking code. There's so much efficiency AI has already provided.

I think less so on the traditional customer success management role. There's definitely efficiencies, but not that dramatic.

Where I've seen it be really dramatic is in managed service examples where people are doing repetitive tasks—they have to churn out reports.

It's made their jobs so much better. When they provide those services now, they can add so much more value. Rather than thinking about churning out reports, they're able to think about: What's the content in my reports?

That's very beneficial for everyone.

By 2027: The Hardest CX Role to Hire

Erin Mills: Mad Libs time. By 2027, the hardest CX job to hire will be _______ because of _______.

Amanda Berger: I think it's like these forward-deployed engineer types of roles. These subject matter experts.

One challenge in CS for a while has been: What's the value of my customer success manager? Are they an expert? Or are they revenue-driven? Are they the retention person?

There's been an evolution of maybe they need to be the expert. And what does that mean?

There'll continue to be evolution on that. And that'll be the hardest role. That standard will be very, very hard.

Lightning Round

Ken Roden: What's one AI workflow go-to-market teams should try this week?

Amanda Berger: Summarization. Put your notes in, get a summary, get the bullets. AI is incredible for that.

Ken Roden: What's one role in go-to-market that's underusing AI right now?

Amanda Berger: Implementation.

Ken Roden: What's a non-obvious AI use case that's already working?

Amanda Berger: Data-related. People are still scared to put data in and ask for themes. Putting in data and asking for input on what are the anomalies.

Ken Roden: For the go-to-market leader who's not seeing value in AI—what should they start doing differently tomorrow?

Amanda Berger: They should start having real conversations about why they're not seeing value. Take a more human-led, empathetic approach to: Why aren't they seeing it? Are they not seeing adoption, or not seeing results? I would guess it's adoption, and then it's drilling into the why.

Ken Roden: If you could DM one thing to all go-to-market leaders, what would it be?

Amanda Berger: Look at your leading indicators. Don't wait. Understand your customer, be empathetic, try to get results that matter to them.

Key Takeaways

The Human-AI Balance in Customer Success: AI doesn't understand business outcomes or motivation—humans do. The winning teams use AI to find patterns and predict risk, then deploy humans to understand why it matters and what strategic action to take.

The Lagging Indicator Trap: By the time NRR, churn rate, or NPS move, customers decided 6 months ago. Focus on leading indicators you can actually influence: verified outcomes, engagement signals specific to your business, early risk warnings, and real-time CSAT at decision points.

The 70% Rule: Bring CS into the sales cycle at the technical win stage (70% probability) for two reasons: (1) CS should scope what they'll be accountable to deliver, and (2) capturing customer goals early prevents the frustrating "I already told your sales rep" moment later.

Segmentation ≠ Personalization: AI makes segmentation faster and cheaper, but true personalization requires understanding context, motivation, and individual circumstances. The jumpsuit story proves we're still just sophisticated bucketing, even with 2026's advanced models.

The Delegation Framework: Don't ask "what can AI do?" Ask "what parts of my job do I hate?" Delegate the tedious (formatting, repetitive emails, data analysis) so humans can focus on strategy, relationships, and outcomes that only humans can drive.

"If You Don't Use AI, AI Will Take Your Job": The people resisting AI out of fear are most at risk. The people using AI to handle drudgery and focusing on what makes them irreplaceable—strategic thinking, relationship-building, understanding nuanced goals—are the future leaders.

Customer Success ≠ Customer Retention: The name matters. Your job isn't preventing churn through discounts and extensions. Your job is driving verified business outcomes that make customers want to stay because you're improving their business.

Stay Connected

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Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered advice. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are our own and do not represent those of any company or business we currently work for/with or have worked for/with in the past.