Forking Off – Détails, épisodes et analyse

2025 has seen unprecedented change in the United States. This is Forking Off. Join us on this journey beginning October 1st as former feds share their stories of why they left government service.

Welcome to Forking Off! The podcast for people who said no to “Just following orders," where we explore the very personal decisions behind leaving federal service—whether by choice, or by force. Every departure has a story, and we’re here to share them. The discussion starts October 1st.

Madeline Vellturo spent the last decade working on violence prevention, peacebuilding, and stability. Between April and July, the State Department eliminated the entire Conflict and Stabilization Operations Bureau, where Madeline worked as a stabilization advisor implementing the Global Fragility Act.

Now Madeline is continuing her mission through storytelling. Along with former colleagues, she launched their YouTube channel Former Feds & Friends, where they share their expertise in violence prevention while reacting to popular film and media. By looking at conflict prevention through the lens of fiction, Madeline and friends are making complex problems approachable and digestible in an age of weaponized media.

In their first season, they took on topics from authoritarianism and atrocities to insurgencies and refugees while running the pop culture gauntlet through DC, Marvel, Star Trek, Disney, and others. In the spirit of Christmas, Philip and Jill joined Madeline for an age-old holiday tradition: watching Die Hard. Together, we discussed the dangers of biases, interagency conflict, and mislabeling violent criminals as terrorists.

Madeline isn't spending all of her time on YouTube though. She is staying sharp by consulting on violence prevention and recently published an article analyzing foreign investment risk and opportunity in Guinea. She's also enjoying life as a newlywed and pursuing future research opportunities.

Check out the Christmas crossover special Forking Off with Former Feds & Friends.

1. Die Hard - McClane's Big Mistake
2. Die Hard - Hans Gruber's Downfall

Connect with Madeline on LinkedIn, and make sure to check out Former Feds & Friends on YouTube.

Learn more about this episode on our website.

If you enjoy Forking Off with us, consider supporting us on ⁠Ko-fi⁠, and ⁠follow us⁠⁠ on ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠, ⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠, ⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠, ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the Department of State, the United States, or any past or current employers.

Ali Syverson never considered working for USAID before she applied for a position in climate and environmental communication, but after spending the first half of her career in corporate social responsibility she knew she wanted to work in the public sector. When Ali moved from the private sector in early 2020, she worried about the stereotypes of “lazy government workers." Instead, she found extremely hard-working colleagues and a fast-paced, caring agency diligently providing humanitarian and development assistance around the world. That all came unraveled in 2025. With USAID decimated, Ali turned to her art and reflected on the near collapse of the foreign aid industry.

After the November 2024 elections, Ali and her colleagues knew their days were numbered; they had all read Project 2025. Even with this knowledge, none of them were prepared for how quickly the new administration would dismantle and destroy the agency. Two weeks into the administration, all of USAID’s websites were removed from the internet. By the end of February, most USAID employees received Reduction in Force notices, including Ali who had decided to take the Deferred Resignation (aka, the Fork in in the Road). Ali lived in a heightened state of anxiety for the first two months of 2025, and used her art to commemorate all that had been lost.

In the aftermath of the destruction, Ali needed to pause and take a breath. Ali knew she wanted to focus on her art for the rest of the year, but she needed time to release herself from the constant ‘fight or flight’ of the first two months of 2025. After moving out of DC, Ali spent 40 days in Spain resting and resetting. Ali spent every day outside painting, reflecting on all that had been lost, reconnecting with herself, and focusing on how to approach the future.

While healing, Ali painted From the American People, a celebration and commemoration of USAID’s sixty years of global humanitarian work. After returning from Spain, Ali sold hundreds of prints to help displaced USAID workers. Ali raised over $15k, which was donated to a mutual aid organization and used to pay rent for at least six returning families.

Although Ali’s job as a climate and environmental writer is gone, Ali's voice is still deeply rooted in the relationships she made and programs she helped. Using her art as her platform, Ali has brought the story of USAID’s destruction to people across the country, including a solo exhibition at the Warehouse Arts District in St. Petersburg, Florida. Ali’s art was also featured at the Don't Look Now exhibition in New York City alongside other artists who were censored this year.

Ali may have lost her dream job at USAID, but she did not lose her dreams. Ali is using her experiences to rebuild and start anew. She is now taking time to create art every day in her new home studio in Minnesota, while also settling into her new job in the arts as the Communications Director for Minnesota Humanities.

Check out Ali's art on her website, and follow her story on Instagram.

Learn more about this episode on our website.

If you enjoy Forking Off with us, consider supporting us on ⁠Ko-fi⁠, and ⁠follow us⁠⁠ on ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠, ⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠, ⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠, ⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, USAID, the United States, or any past or current employers.

From January until April of 2025, Dr. Ana Mitchell lived in fight or flight mode, not knowing each day if she would be part of the layoffs or Reduction-in-Force (RIF) actions of the new administration. On April 1, 2025, Ana lost her dream job as a Project Officer/Public Health Advisor with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in the Chronic Disease Center. In the midst of uncertainty and confusion, Ana turned her despair into action and rebranded herself as "Ana Fired Fed."

After her RIF notice, Ana spent a month recentering and acknowledging her anxiety and grief. At the urging of her friends, Ana shared her story of resilience through social media and was overwhelmed by the outpouring of support. Ana quickly gained a following of other former federal employees looking for ways to continue making a difference in their communities.

Now, Ana is on a mission to make civic engagement a part of people's everyday life. Ana is using social media to start a cultural revolution, making civic action accessible, authentic, and sustainable. Ana is determined to make civic engagement a lifestyle by helping people become civically fit and strengthening democracy.

Ana is taking to the internet to guide people on their civic fitness journeys whether they are beginner, intermediate, or advanced. One easy way to start is by practicing digital resistance. Digital resistance can be as simple as sharing information that is important to you on social media or commenting on posts for community reach.

Follow Ana on Instagram and TikTok to learn how taking consistent, small actions over time can make big impacts on your community.

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Follow us on Instagram, TikTok, Bluesky, LinkedIn, Mastodon, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

If you enjoy Forking Off with us, consider supporting us on Ko-fi where we've set a goal to upgrade our hosting services.

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After April Fools’ Day purge, U.S. health agencies spiral into chaos

Science, Vol 388, Issue 6743

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Read more about Ana's story at The Fed Up

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Read the notice terminating the Presidential Management Fellows Program

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Learn more about the ADKAR model

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Find ways to get civically engaged with the 5 Calls app

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Contact your elected officials all at once with Resistbot

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Sign the petition to Protect Public Health Employees from Continued Threats, Harassment, and Targeting

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Learn more about Heal the Bay

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Learn more about the Westside Food Bank in Santa Monica

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The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the United States, or any past or current employers.

As a retired Navy Captain, Dr. John Cordle knew the impact of fatigue management on force readiness. Following his retirement, Dr. Cordle completed his Doctorate of Engineering in Human Systems Engineering and rededicated himself to serving the Navy as a Human Factors Engineer. As a civilian employee, Dr. Cordle set out to identify signs of stress and fatigue and built systems to prevent future collisions at sea. In May 2025, Dr. Cordle left government service after finding that his moral compass no longer aligned with that of the current administration.

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To learn more about Dr. Cordle's experience and his former job, check out his recent CIMSEC article.

https://cimsec.org/dont-forget-the-lessons-of-the-2017-comprehensive-review/

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Read Dr. Cordle's op-ed in the Navy Times about why he chose to retire from government service.

https://www.navytimes.com/opinion/2025/06/18/why-i-left-government-service-my-moral-compass-no-longer-aligned/

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If you enjoy Dr. Cordle's writing, consider subscribing to his Substack.

https://substack.com/@johncordle573317

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Connect with Dr. Cordle on LinkedIn.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/cordlejp

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"Going Circadian: The United States Navy's Slow Road to Change" by Dr. John Cordle

https://www.amazon.com/Going-Circadian-United-States-Change/dp/B08924C38G

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"Oscar P. Dog: A Deployment Story and Guidebook for Military Kids 6-12" by Dr. John Cordle

https://www.amazon.com/Oscar-P-Dog-Deployment-Guidebook/dp/B088BGLGDS

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"Black Officer, White Navy: A Memoir" by Keith Green

https://www.kentuckypress.com/9781985900295/black-officer-white-navy/

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Watch out for John's next book coming out later this year, titled "Letters to Myself" from StoneTower Press

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Follow us on Bluesky, Instagram, and TikTok.

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If you're enjoying Forking Off with us, please help us reach our goal of improving our hosting infrastructure through a small contribution on Ko-fi!

https://ko-fi.com/forkingoff/goal

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The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the US Navy, the United States, or any past or current employers.

Jill and Philip sit down with former DOJ employee, Jordan Mathews, to hear why she decided to leave her dream job. In this episode, Jordan shares her journey from serving with the Peace Corps in the Dominican Republic to the Rotary Peace Fellowship in Uppsala, Sweden. As a Presidential Management Fellow, Jordan found her dream job working at the U.S. Department of Justice, Community Relations Service, America’s Peacemaker. Now, Jordan is saying the true thing out loud and building community on The Fed Up.

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Find Jordan on LinkedIn, on Substack at The Fed Up, or contact her at thefedupcommunity[at]gmail[dot]com.

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“An Inside Job: Writing Your (True)Story and Why That Matters” by Jordan Mathews on October 8th

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Peace Corps

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Rotary Peace Fellowships

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Presidential Management FellowsProgram: “Termination of the PMF Program”Posted on February 19, 2025.

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we are wellfed

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Justice Connection

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Reuters, “New Justice Department Policy Cracks Down on Social Media Posts”, April 15, 2025 by Sarah N. Lynch.

"The new policy represents another unwarranted attack on DOJ employees - one that stifles their free speech in their private lives and creates new ways for the administration to oust career public servants who don't toe the party line," said Young.

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The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the United States, or any past or current employers.

Welcome to Forking Off! We're Jill & Philip Fields. We took the government's deferred resignation because our morals and our ethics were being pushed to the limit by changes in the new administration. We created this podcast to share our story and the stories of other former feds who said no to “Just following orders." We will explore the very personal experience of leaving federal service—whether by choice, or by force. Every departure has a story, and we’re here to share them.

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"Fork in the Road" was the title and subject line of a memo sent on January 28, 2025, by the U.S. Office of Personnel Management (OPM) to all federal employees.

OPM, Original Email to Employees, dated January 28, 2025

https://www.opm.gov/about-us/fork/original-email-to-employees/

OPM, Fork in the Road

https://www.opm.gov/about-us/fork/

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Washington Post article cited stating: about 6.7% of the federal civilian workforce resigned under the program, with more than 154,000 drawing a full salary for more than 6 months.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/07/31/federal-workers-doge-buyout-paid/

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Washington Post article detailing the Trump administration's desire to put federal employees in trauma subsequent mental health impacts of federal employees.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2025/05/20/federal-workers-trump-mental-health/

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ProPublica clip of Russell Vought at the Center for Renewing America referring to federal employees and stating "We want to put them in trauma."

https://youtu.be/oBH9TmeJN_M

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NPR's Podcast Start Up Guide by Glen Weldon

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/635199/nprs-podcast-start-up-guide-by-glen-weldon/

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The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the United States, or any past or current employers.

2025 has seen unprecedented change in the United States. This is Forking Off. Join us on this journey beginning October 1st as former feds share their stories of why they left government service. Learn more at forkingoff.com.

Sarah Ellison Hernandez's dream was to become a judge. In 2018, Sarah's dream was realized when she was appointed as an immigration judge. It was the highlight of her career. She remembers excitedly calling her mom with the news. To this day, the memories of her swearing-in ceremony make her emotional because of the weight and importance of her oath. Sarah thought this would be her forever job.

Normally, a new presidential administration will cause a few changes to immigration courts, but those are just adjustments in priorities and don't spark legal concern. Beginning in January, Sarah saw what she calls "bread crumbs" of the administration trying to go somewhere with immigration law and policy. Sarah was concerned by the barrage of "spicy" policy memos being released daily. These memos laying the groundwork to fire employees for minor infractions.

Sarah became increasingly concerned when she learned the US State Department's Country Reports on Human Rights Practices would no longer include information about persecution of women, individuals with disabilities, or LGBTQ+ individuals. They also removed or reduced coverage of issues such as fair trials, political freedom, corruption, and more. Immigration judges rely heavily on these annual reports to adjudicate asylum claims for protection from persecution or torture. Sarah recalled a time when she relied on the reports to grant a claim for a woman who had escaped an honor killing in India. This change was one of the first moments Sarah saw the administration taking away protections for everyone.

Every day in 2025 was something new for Sarah, and things were only getting worse. The DOJ's Executive Office of Immigration Review was instructing immigration judges to pretermit applications. Cases were to be dismissed, and individuals were to be placed in expedited removal. All of these instructions made Sarah squeamish.

The breaking point for Sarah was the Kilmar Abrego Garcia case, when the administration lied about the circumstances surrounding Abrego Garcia's deportation in intentional defiance of the law and court order. Sarah's gut was telling her "Danger! Danger! Danger!"

Sarah worried about DOJ taking advantage of how immigration courts are set up. With immigration courts being administrative courts and part of the DOJ, the Attorney General can pull a case and issue a ruling which then becomes binding case law. The Board of Immigration Appeals reports to the Attorney General, who reports to the President. The AG can control what immigration courts do, and the AG is currently pushing the bounds of what is constitutionally allowable. Sarah wondered at what point she would be asked or instructed to do something illegal.

When the second Deferred Resignation Program offer came around, Sarah knew she had to take it. She could no longer keep her head down and hope for the best. She saw the administration lie and intentionally defy court orders. Sarah refused to be a part of that.

Since leaving her dream job, Sarah has opened her own private practice, Ellison Hernandez, PLLC, in Midlothian, Texas, providing consultation services and litigation support for other attorneys and law firms. Sarah is using her 15 years of state, federal, and immigration court experience to give insight and assist other attorneys and law firms in advocating for their clients. She is licensed to practice law in Texas and supports clients nationwide via her virtual platform.

Connect with Sarah on LinkedIn.

For more information about this episode, visit our ⁠website⁠.

If you enjoy Forking Off with us, consider supporting us on ⁠⁠Ko-fi⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠follow us⁠⁠⁠ on ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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The views expressed in this episode are solely those of the individuals providing them and do not necessarily represent the views of the FBI, the DOJ, the United States, or any past or current employers.