Have you ever gotten a toxic text from a friend, a family member—maybe your spouse? The women in our Flying Free Kaleidoscope have the opportunity to post the toxic texts they receive so that we can help them process, and I came across one I just couldn’t wrap my brain around, it was so incredibly full of toxicity and falsities. 

So today’s episode is breaking down this particular abusive text that one of my members received, and honestly, it can actually be quite interesting once you get the hang of it. Come parse through this toxic texter's false beliefs and see how I would respond if I were the one getting this text. 

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Read one of my favorite books, Forgiveness After Trauma, and listen in on an interview I did with the author, Susannah Griffith. 
• Check out the article I mentioned by Christy Hemphill, “How Things Go Wrong with Metaphorical Reasoning in Ephesians 5.”
• Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. 
• My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. 
• Flying Free is my private online education community designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this community.
• Flying Higher is our educational community for divorced Christian women. 

Have you ever wondered, “Am I really being emotionally abused? Is it considered emotional abuse if my spouse is lying to me? Gaslighting me? Ignoring me? What are the kinds of mistreatments we can actually call ABUSE? 

My friend, this is a question I’ve been answering for other women for almost a decade now. This is my my life’s work. My passion. Let me help guide you just a little bit in today’s episode as we do a deep-dive on emotional abuse: what it is, how it destroys lives, and what we can do about it.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

• Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote a book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. 
• My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. 
• Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.
• Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you. 

“Does God really hate divorce? And why haven’t my years of praying brought any fruit?” 

Abuse survivors ask me these two questions regularly, and today, I’m going to use Malachi 2:16 as well as a chapter from my newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, to answer them both. Beautiful butterfly, I pray this episode is an encouragement to you as you wrestle with these important topics.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Links to resources about the idea that God hates divorce
• My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. 
• Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. 
• Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.
• Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you. 

“You don’t know God,” the elder leaned forward and said to me. He knew I was preparing to divorce my emotionally abusive husband.

My body began to tremble. My voice shook. 

I realized later that he was right. His god was vindictive and cruel, like a mythological Zeus. 

The God I know — deeply, intimately, since I was a child — is gentle and kind and leads me away from fear and control.

That was the first church meeting I ever walked out of. And the last one I ever had with those elders. 

It’s also when I realized that I could fly free. So can you. 

In this episode with licensed marriage and family therapist Naomi Norton, we discuss:

• 11 dominant fears the Christian community uses to influence (CONTROL) women
• Why being connected to the physical (your body, emotions) is so important
• How to prioritize, process, and honor fear
• What the church usually says about fear (and why their perspective is SO DANGEROUS)
• How being aware of fear (the types, the ways they surface) can HELP US PROTECT ourselves
• Why moving toward fear is often NOT a good or godly response
• The reason you love God but you’re afraid of him (and how to get rid of that fear)
• How to respond to people (often church people) who USE FEAR TO CONTROL US

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Naomi’s Facebook page is like a 5-course banquet for emotional and spiritual abuse survivors. You’ll gobble it up! 
• If you live in or near Kansas City and you’re looking for a therapist, check out Naomi’s website.
• If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com
• I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download
• You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com
• And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

Naomi Norton is a licensed marriage and family therapist. She’s been in private practice for eight years. She has a passion for working with marginalized communities and people who’ve suffered religious trauma. Naomi is in the final stages of completing her Ph.D. in family therapy at North Central University. Her dissertation research focuses on the evangelical Christian community’s perspective on mental health.

If marriage is for life, then the only way out is death. Right? 

I’ve been asked that question, or a variation of it, many times. I used to wonder that question myself. 

Marriage IS for life, but not in the way you’ve been told. It’s for the sake of bringing life TO you. And when it’s destroying you instead, THERE IS A WAY OUT. 

But the very Bible verses written to bring protection to abused women and rebuke to abusive men have been twisted and turned on their heads…until the words “for life” are a curse and death seems like the only escape (whether his or yours). 

Allow me to right these warped words and help you fly free from your despair. 

In this episode:

• Why you might reconsider telling church leaders about your husband’s abusive behavior
• The four reasons women consider “telling on” their husbands to church leaders (and the problems with each)
• The four possible responses you can expect when you report your abusive husband’s behavior to church leaders (helping the victim is the rarest)
• Why the “God hates divorce” verse is COMPLETELY WRONG and what it really says
• The 8 things you don’t owe ANYONE (at church or otherwise) when it comes to leaving your marriage
• The only two things you absolutely need to get out of your marriage (and they’re available no matter your circumstances)
• Why wishing your abusive husband were dead doesn’t mean you’re an evil person
• How I went from lying on a bathroom floor wishing for death to flying free, remarried, with a new home, a new family, and an amazing job (and my story isn’t unique among Flying Free and Flying Higher survivors) 

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

“I’m going to be ninety-two next month, and I have waited my entire life for a book like this.” 

A woman said this to Tiffany after she spoke to a Sunday School class about her book, “Gaslighted by God: Reconstructing a Disillusioned Faith.”

Many Christians are told their doubts are a sign they haven’t prayed or fasted enough. That their spiritual frustrations are an indication they’re backsliding. That they just don’t have enough faith.

Do you feel a sense of futility over ever measuring up as a Christian? Ever pleasing God? Ever nailing down the formula for blessing or meeting the mark for making yourself small enough?

Tiffany wrote “Gaslighted by God” to give a voice to the pain of devoted Christians whose faith is cracking under the abuse of legalism, who are desperately clinging to beliefs that are hurting them, and who need to know it’s not their fault.  

In this episode:

• What spiritual anxiety is and how it manifests
• The significance of Tiffany screaming at a church sign
• Why the Christian “answer” for everything is so damaging
• The similarities between a space chimp and shell-shocked WWI veterans and what we experience because of legalistic theology
• How Jesus expanded the definitions of sin to protect the vulnerable, not add a bigger burden
• So much more! 

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Reach out to Tiffany on her website. 
• Read her incredible book, Gaslighted by God. 
• If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com
• I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download
• You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com
• And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

Tiffany Yecke Brooks is the lead or contributing writer on more than two dozen books, including multiple New York Times bestsellers. She is the coauthor of Fear Is a Choice: Tackling Life’s Challenges With Dignity, Faith, and Determination (with NFL running back James Conner), Limitless: The Power of Hope and Resilience to Overcome Circumstance (with Paralympic gold-medalist Mallory Weggemann), and the narrative nonfiction historical thriller Espionage and Enslavement in the Revolution: The True Story of Robert Townsend and Elizabeth (with historian Claire Bellerjeau). Her newest book, Gaslighted By God: Reconstructing a Disillusioned Faith was released in May 2022 by Eerdmans. She has also published articles in peer-reviewed journals and the Smithsonian.Tiffany holds a PhD from Florida State University, where her dissertation covered, in part, cultural adaptations of stories from the book of Genesis, and an MA from the University of Bristol in the UK, where her thesis examined cultural influences and literary techniques in the Gospel of Luke. A popular speaker for student groups, faith conferences, and academic lectureships, Tiffany has taught literature and writing at Abilene Christian University, McMurry University, and the University of South Carolina – Beaufort.

How do you feel about accountability? Like it, love it, want some more of it?

Or maybe it’s like medicine to you — icky but necessary.

Hold on to your booty, cause I’ve got an opinion on it too. 

I think it’s a made-up practice that got a “virtue” sticker slapped on it. I think it arrests our development into emotional adulthood. In fact, I’d say accountability does more harm than good. 

And it can never match the power of internal motivation for true, lasting life change.

Christian accountability conditions us to believe:

• We are helpless and foolish
• We don’t have the capacity for self-motivation or self-leadership
• We have to be externally motivated by something outside of ourselves (like pain or the humiliation of confessing our faults/sins/failures)
• We can't make our own decisions
• We have to get guidance from and obey other people (who usually have penises)
• We are flirting with danger if we think independently

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

Surprise! Abusers never want the same thing as their victims. Why should divorce be any different?

Shocking! Abusers never want their “property” to start acting like a person and hightail it out of Dodge (“Dodge” being the marriage. Okay, you get it.)

Spoiler alert! You get to make your own decisions because you’re a grown woman. What? Yes, it’s true.

Divorce isn’t a magic toilet that flushes all your worries away. But it’s a wise, viable option for women who are being systematically destroyed by their closest relationship. 

For women who want a divorce from their emotionally abusive husbands, this episode is a reminder of the core things they need to know.

The Rundown:

• When somebody kicks our shin over and over: We LEAVE THE ROOM
• When religious people demand we save a corrupt “marriage”: We CALL BS
• When others say we can’t get divorced: We BREAK OUT THE LAW
• When we are about to take the leap: We MAKE SURE WE’RE SURE
• When we jump off the cliff (and get a divorce): We GET CAUGHT BY A LOVING GOD
• When emotionally and spiritually abused women need help recovering, they get dozens of Butterfly stories and workshops, and 12 courses including “Divorce Basis” and “The 90-Day Escape Plan” in Flying Free

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

Imagine a mother who stares at her baby.. She won’t smile. Won’t look it in the eye. Doesn’t react when it holds its arms out to be held. Refuses to comfort it when it cries. The baby screams and sobs. The mother won’t move. 

Now multiply that cruelty across each thousands of days. Switch the mother for a husband. Change the baby to a wife. 

Other people may throw out the “But does he hit you?” strawman (only extremes, only obvious physical, qualifiable harm counts as abuse). But that baby knows better. You know better. Your desolate heart knows better.

The most devastating hurts don’t show on the outside. 

In this episode:

• The different flavors of abuse vs. the different ways victims react
• Reaction #1: Fighting Back
• Reaction #2: Hiding
• Reaction #3: Freezing
• Reaction #4 Appeasing
• How a still face and a baby show the impact of covert emotional abuse
• Why trying to prevent emotional pain only creates more pain
• Responses that lead to healing, freedom, and peace

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

“I feel like a massive failure as a Christian and a mom. Like a puppet—and he’s pulling the strings.”

Too many women finally muster up the courage to leave their abusive husbands and face an even more painful betrayal: Their exes turn their own children against them. Lying, manipulating, bribing, even using threats in order to get the kids on their side. 

It’s sickening. And it can feel like there’s no hope, no justice, and no way forward. 

If this is you—wherever you are, whatever you’re doing, no matter how bad things are—I need you to stop and listen to me.

Because I’ve seen terrible cases of parental alienation turn around. I’ve lived it. 

No matter what happens: Your future depends on cutting the strings of your puppeteer. 

In this episode:

• How to start making the most of your rights as a parent (without guilt or fear)
• Why a lack of focus is often the biggest problem (it’s the perfect setup for your ex to succeed at his crappy mind games)
• How to turn the volume of his voice down (and come to trust your own)
• The story of 1-hour a week visitation making all the difference in a restored relationship between a mom and her son
• The danger of believing your ex-husband (remember the term “self-fulfilling prophecy”?)
• Why your ex acts like a quack (because he’s a duck, not a cat)
• A tale as old as time: The ex who is suddenly the sweetest person in the world (grab your BS-vision goggles)

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

For women escaping emotionally abusive husbands, divorce often feels like a scarlet “A” on their chest. Or “D.” They wonder if they’ll be marked for life. 

And worse, they fear how their kids will suffer the consequences. 

First, because they lived in a home of chaos and pain and trauma. Second, because they’ll have to face the assumptions and judgment of other people.

A “broken” family. A single-parent household. “Sinful” parents. Not “true” Christians. Bad influences. The sort of mom and kids other people whisper about. 

Is this your fear? Your reality? Then I’ve got great news and lots of it.

Listen in for:

• The reason our brains like to borrow trouble (which can be helpful or silly)
• Why protecting our kids can actually backfire (no problems/pain = most people become jerks)
• A quick reminder (and a big number) to help you feel less like an outcast
• A Flying Higher member’s story about reaching emotional peace
• A crappy definition of forgiveness: 1. I will never bring this up to you again, 2. I will never bring this up to others again, 3. I will never bring this up to myself again. (Where’s the vomit emoji when you need it?)
• A definition of forgiveness that’s not icky, that lets you breathe and doesn’t demand you betray yourself or let someone harm you 

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

“I don’t think I’ll ever heal from this,” she said. “You expect harm from people who only harm you. From him. Not the ones who know you, who grew up with you, who you went to church with.” 

Do you know the pain of rejection by your family, friends, and church? I do. I’ve lost entire nights of sleep swimming in that pain. It’s mind-numbing. Excruciating. 

A listener told me that after being rejected by her church and family, she felt like she was standing on an alien ship watching her home planet being blown up. Then she asked the questions you might be wondering too:

How do we survive such great loss? Is there any healing for grief that goes deeper than your bones? Hurts that nearly fracture your body?

Yes, dear one. But the truth is that as painful as the facts are, your hurt is increased 100 fold by the story you’re telling yourself about it. And the meaning you’re giving that story.

From one heart-weary woman to another, here’s the scoop on the most important story of your life..and the secret to changing it. 

Because rejection hasn’t ended the good of your story. Not by a long shot.

In this episode:

• A prickly cactus, Jesus getting slapped, lots of Pirate’s Booty, and 8 billion people. If that’s not enough to tickle your fancy…
• How what happened (the facts) and what we make it mean ( the story) creates our emotions (pain)
• Why beliefs create the result (often extra pain)
• The way to discover what you believe (the whole story)
• 2 things that have helped me after losing most of my relationships (based on things I CAN’T lose)
• How Jesus’ pain and his responses are great examples for us to follow
• The one relationship you have from which all other relationships flow (SURPRISE: It’s not with God)

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

As terrible as being married to an abuser is, there’s something worse.

It’s getting free from your abuser, then getting remarried to another one. 

For a lot of survivors, that’s their worst fear. 

Can they trust themselves to identify red flags when they were taught to dismiss them for so long? Will they be able to see past the BS if a potential suitor is slick and smooth but a turd of a guy underneath the facade? How can they be sure they’re choosing a safe, truly good person, not a Dr. Jekyll / Mr. Hyde?

I know that fear all too well. And I trust myself to choose good people now. (I did; I’m remarried to one.) I’ve also taught hundreds upon hundreds of women how to spot red flags in relationships. 

By the time you listen to this episode, you’ll know whether your Christian dating relationship (or any dating relationship) is toxic.

The seven deal-breakers:

• Cannot accept negative feedback
• Little or no empathy
• Has to have his own way
• Communicates passive-aggressively (plus 14 EXAMPLES/QUESTIONS to help you identify passive-aggressive behavior)
• Prioritizes his own interests (including not respecting your time, refusing to be honest or discuss his past, bad with money, a boundary-breaker, and other examples)
• Won’t take responsibility for his behavior (plus 5 EXAMPLES/QUESTIONS to help you see whether this is true about him)
• He consumes you; the relationship is slowly destroying your self-worth, your friendships, your potential, and your interests (plus 3 QUESTIONS to ask yourself to know if this is true) 

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

Joining me for today’s fascinating episode is Dan Koch, podcaster and spiritual abuse researcher. Dan has created an incredible tool called the Spiritual Harm & Abuse Scale, and he breaks it down for us as we talk about spiritual abuse and the heavy impact it has on people’s lives.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Check out Dan’s Spiritual Harm & Abuse Scale. Also mentioned in today’s podcast episode was Dr. Keller’s Spiritual Abuse Questionnaire. 
• Connect with Dan on his website as well as Instagram. 
• Listen to Dan’s podcast, You Have Permission, and especially Episodes 10 and 123. 
• Grab your copy of one of my favorite books, Faith Beyond Doubt. 
• My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. 
• Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. 
• Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.
• Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you. 

Dan Koch is a licensed therapist in the state of Washington, the host of the You Have Permission Podcast and a spiritual abuse researcher who has developed the Spiritual Harm & Abuse Scale, currently in use by religious trauma clinicians around the world.

Bonus episode (because this is important!)

With Tina Swithin's permission, I am sharing an article she wrote on her website here about why it's imperative that we do not use the word "alienation" in our court cases.

Please head over to her article, Please Stop Saying Alienation, to access the links mentioned in this podcast episode.

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

Is there poison in your home?

No, I don’t mean rat poison or toxic chemicals or asbestos. It’s words. On pages. In a book. One that’s given as a wedding gift. When times are tough. When you’re desperate. When you’ve run out of ideas and options to help your marriage and somebody gives you 336 pages of “hope.”

The poison is the answer ringing from every page of this book. You were, as Debi Pearl puts it, “Created to Be His Help Meet.” And lots of women have gulped it down, me included. 

Sounds nice, doesn’t it? Sweet. Simple. Godly. 

Because double standards and coercive control and whitewashed tombs are biblical, right? 

In this interview with Chelsea Wells, she and I discuss the poisonous messages of Debi Pearl’s book before we toss them in the shredder.

The summary we recover-y:

• Women are responsible for their husband’s bad behavior. Period.
• Husbands have the authority to tell wives what to wear, where to go, whom to talk to, and how to spend her time.
• Wives shouldn’t have close friends–only their husbands.
• Women should submit to their husband when he’s a sex addict, adulterer, physically abusive, or refuses to work.
• Husbands have tiebreaker power in every situation.
• Wives have no rights in marriage.
• Your looks and how your family appears to the world matter much more than your health or safety or life.
• Women who want equality are bra-burning heathens who want to take over the world.
• The pièce de résistance: Single moms are the worst (it’s the haircuts and the tiredness).

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Connect with Chelsea on Facebook
• This episode was like a cup of tea when there’s a whole steaming pot waiting for you. Grab the whole shebang on Amazon: Created To Be His Helpmeet Rebuttal by Chelsea Wells. 
• If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com
• I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download
• You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com
• And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

Chelsea Wells is a stay-at-home mom of three cutie pies, aspiring domestic queen, and amateur theologian. In her free time, she enjoys motorcycle rides with her husband as well as sipping iced chai lattes with a good book in hand. She is the founder of Table Salt Ministries, which aims to expose common false teachings in the church and demystify what the Bible is REALLY saying to women.

Life after abuse can feel like you’re just spinning your wheels. You struggle with the same things. The same thoughts. The same downward spirals. Over and over and over.

Flying Free is all about breaking out of harmful cycles, in and after abusive relationships. If you want to see this in action, Amie is a poster child for life beyond abuse: healing, thriving, and constantly growing. 

Our discussion was so powerful, her story so incredible, the amazing freedom she’s experienced so inspiring, that we talked for two hours. There was no way I was going to cut a single minute from the recording, so I broke it into three episodes. 

This series catalogs her thought transformations, from old to new, across the most important aspects of her life, the parts that were hit the hardest by spiritual and emotional abuse. So if you’re feeling stuck, defeated, or just plain frustrated as heck in your recovery process, this is one of the greatest freebies you’ll come across.

If you just started following along, check out Part 1 and Part 2, then skip back here for the grand finale. Because the last thing survivors want is for the abuse they survived to torment them into the future…and these episodes are a line in the sand. 

In Part 3 of 3:

• Old Thought #1: Grief, sadness, anger, and anguish are too hard and can be sinful. I will avoid them.
• New Thought #1: There are no good or bad emotions. I will experience them in full without getting trapped.
• 3 more old thoughts and 3 more powerful new thoughts
• Why “dirty” pain is so overwhelming, but “clean” pain is manageable (and helpful!)
• What exiles, firefighters, and parents have to do with your brain after trauma
• Why regulating before responding is so important
• How to have curiosity instead of judgment (which greatly increases your chance of breaking negative thought patterns)
• The critical importance of community in changing your thoughts and results
• The FREE PDF DOWNLOAD for old thoughts vs. new thoughts 

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

“I’ve got to share this with as many people as possible.” That’s what I decided when Amie showed me her thought work from Flying Higher. 

What the heck is “thought work”? Well, I’ll answer your question with a question.

How often do you have the same thoughts? You know, the crappy ones. “Nothing will ever change. If I could just get him to see how much he’s hurting me. I have to wait for God to move; I can’t do anything about this. I need someone to come rescue me. I’m trapped. I’ll never heal.” 

What if you had new beliefs that led to new emotions and new actions and an ENTIRE NEW LIFE? 

I’m not blowing smoke up your tailpipe. The truth is: You could have all your problems solved right now, and you’d still be stuck if your thoughts didn’t change too. And they don’t on their own.

Our beliefs keep us in abuse. It’s only our beliefs that can free us. Thought work is the simple way to break free. 

Want some clear evidence? I recorded three episodes’ worth—Amie’s story. It’s incredible, and one of many in the Sisterhood.

In Part 2 of 3:

• Old Thought: I help God change people with my words/actions.
• Old Thought: Conversations should lead to a resolution and common ground.
• Old Thought: If you love me, you’ll be there for me.
• Old Thought: Giving sex to make my husband happy is right and good.
• Old Thought: When people are angry with me, I HAVE to make it right. 
• 5 of Amie’s New Thoughts (these were AMAZING; why do you think I couldn’t stop recording for two hours?)
• Bonus New Thought #1: Pushing people to change is abusive in its own way.
• Bonus New Thought #2: We can’t expect people to respect our boundaries.
• Bonus New Thought #3: Christian culture is codependent.
• The FREE PDF DOWNLOAD for old thoughts vs. new thoughts

P.S. Listen to Part 1 and Part 3 of this 3-part series!

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

“I would keep the peace or create peace at any cost. And a lot of the time, the cost was myself.”

Amie searched for love her entire life. But all she found were unsafe people. And all she learned was that love demanded everything and gave nothing but pain in return. 

Despite this, Amie is a poster child for what’s possible after a life of abuse. She’s flourished in Flying Free and Flying Higher, moving from a caterpillar perspective to a butterfly perspective, from crawling to flying.

How? It all comes down to old thoughts versus new thoughts. Just like a caterpillar, Amie wove a cocoon of new thoughts to replace the ones that had led her into harm and kept her from living beyond her trauma. 

What she learned is so powerful, so practical, and so encouraging, we talked for 2 hours. I broke our discussion into a 3-part podcast series, diving into exactly what Amie did and providing listeners the simple, downloadable resource she used to fly free. 

Part 1 of this 3-part therapy session includes:

• Why Amie was terrified that Flying Free would not be a safe place for her
• How chameleons and trauma are related
• The FREE PDF DOWNLOAD for old thoughts vs. new thoughts (see below)
• Why the church’s definition of “community” is usually just icky enmeshment
• 2 old thoughts and 2 new thoughts from Amie’s worksheet (these are truth anvils, I tell you!)
• How Amie was robbing her ex-husband of his chrysalis when she thought she was loving him (super easy to do with our kids too)

P.S. Listen to Part 2 and Part 3 of this 3-part series!

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

What do love, hate, and pain have in common?

Believe it or not: Being super ticked off. Anger.

I’m serious as a heart attack. Anger stems from either love, hate, or pain. Which means there are some pretty legitimate and useful reasons to be mad. As well as some that are just nasty or unhelpful. 

So if you’ve been taught that anger is ungodly, wrong, or always a sign of bitterness, I suggest two things:

1. Pull out the example of Jesus crafting a homemade whip and going mad dog in the temple. He dealt out the beatdown of the season. Ask people what they think of that anger. Was he just trying to encourage all those sleazy hawkers while flipping their tables over, tossing their money around, and driving their animals away? Maybe he should’ve prayed instead of taking his zeal to the streets?
2. Listen to this episode. More motivation below.

The can’t-miss parts of this anger breakdown:

• Three analogies: A very bad macaroni-and cheese analogy, a better one about road rage, and a great one about puking.
• Three sources: An explanation of how love, hate, and pain trigger anger.
• Three examples: Honestly, I give a buttload of examples. It’s the deal of the century. Listening = tons of free drama-filled examples. Not as squeal-worthy as Jesus giving what for, but still muy bien.
• Three reasons: Why I WANT TO FEEL ANGRY (again, I give more than three reasons, but there’s no way I’m messing with the pattern I’ve created).
• Why anger from love is open but anger from hate is hidden and destructive (I ruined the pattern. Dang it.).
• My living nightmare. A dream that haunted me for years before becoming reality. 
• Three drivers: How anger moves from a neutral emotion to meaning, and guides everything we do. (Eeeeh! We’re back to threes!)

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

“Don’t try and church it up.” 

Ever heard that piece of advice? It hits the crux of this episode right in the nethers: biblical manhood and biblical womanhood. 

Author Aimee Bird offered a more refined and relevant version: “Just because you put the word ‘biblical’ in front of it doesn’t make it so. It’s not an adjective.”

If you’re listening to this podcast, I’d bet my milk money you've heard the terms “biblical manhood” and “biblical womanhood” 43,854 times or more, maybe in the past month alone. 

They’re not standalones. They inform every aspect of your life as a Christian woman. Or so you’ve been taught. Maybe they’re just churched-up versions of junk — the overcooked vegetables on your theological dinner plate. The stain on your white blouse. The turd in your lemonade. 

Maybe. You’ll have to listen to find out.

I interviewed Aimee in this fancy-pants episode, including:

• How churches slap Bible verses on the ugly puppy of misogyny
• What the heck the “eternal subordination of the Son” has to do with any of this (a lot, and it’s not as weird or highfalutin as you’d assume)
• The book of the Bible dominated by a woman (and the basis for Aimee’s book The Sexual Reformation)
• What happened when Aimee stepped too far out of her “role” as a woman (a tale as old as time)
• The two meanings of the word “role” and why the difference matters A LOT
• Several delicious plays on words (with a last name like “Byrd” and the ability to write so well, how could she resist?)

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• If you’re a Christian woman and abuse survivor, there’s a 77% chance you’ll benefit from The Sexual Reformation. Nab your copy and leave a sexy (or straight-laced) review today!
• See what all the fuss is about in Recovering from Biblical Manhood and Womanhood.
• If you haven’t soaked up enough Aimee Byrd (you haven’t), flap on over to her website.
• If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com
• I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download
• You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com
• And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

Aimee Byrd is a mom, blogger, wife, speaker, Christian, former barista, writer, and lady of many…feathers. She’s also the author of “Recovering from Biblical Manhood and Womanhood” and “The Sexual Reformation.” The biggest plot twist of these two books isn’t their genius names and controversial subjects — she wrote the latter during her recovery from the backlash she experienced for the first book.

Did you know some people used to use the Bible to support slavery? They would tell slaves that it was God’s will.

Want to guess who those people were?  

Huge surprise: slave owners.

It can be terrifying to have someone throw the book—the literal Bible—at you. But you know the saying “Where there’s smoke, there’s fire?” Well, in this case, “Where there’s confusion, there’s crap.” The kind of crap people throw out when they’re desperate to keep you under their thumb. 

Instead of cowering in the face of their accusations and “biblical” nonsense, you can do a little math. 

This episode does some figuring:

• The crappy calculation abusers use (they have an investment in saying dumb things)
• The inverse result of reading 1 Corinthians 6:1-10 for what it really means
• The addition by subtraction you experience when you wake up to abuse (the more you learn, the more you lose…at first)
• The typical transactions of abusive relationships: You make constant deposits; they’re making constant withdrawals 
• The order of operation: You confront, they deny. Then they turn you into a goat (don’t worry, I’ll explain)
• The tangent I go off on: My own story follows the same line graph…and it’s why I can understand what you’re going through.

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

Do you wonder how he did it?

How your abuser tricked you and blindfolded your church? How he just keeps coming out on top, despite all the evidence pointing to what a sick, twisted, evil person he is?

Abuse doesn’t happen in a vacuum. It always involves the community. In this case: the church.

Wade Mullen staked his Ph.D. on the study of the hidden tactics of abuse, especially spiritual abuse within religious communities. 

What he found were patterns of behavior. The slow and steady set-up for abuse to become a system, a system to become a theology, and a theology to become god.

Imagine with me: A relationship within a community where all the red flags (manipulation, lying, criticism) are called green flags and all the green flags (truth-telling, boundaries, self-respect) are called red flags. 

It’s the heist of the century. And it’s working all too well.

Don’t miss out on this killer explanation: 

• Why abuse always involves theft
• Why abuse always involves murder
• Why emotional abuse is just as bad or worse than other types of abuse
• The types of evil language abusers always use
• The four types of nice things abusers do (and why “kindness” from an abuser is always a WARNING SIGN)
• The reason laughter is a RED FLAG in an abusive relationship
• 6 things women need when they’re coming out of emotional and spiritual abuse (and a great place to get ALL of them)

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

“This was the big whammy… My whole life had been centered around pleasing the abusive person…trying to meet their ever-changing expectations…I really didn’t know who I was anymore.”

Art therapist Jennifer Kramer practices what she paints. She’s a survivor of narcissistic abuse and now teaches an art therapy process she developed during her recovery. 

She discovered that the most powerful part of art-making isn’t what we create — the final drawing or painting. It’s not about making something that looks pretty or gets displayed in an art gallery. It’s about the way art reconnects our minds and bodies and how it rebuilds an abuse survivor’s sense of identity. 

Because the real masterpiece…is YOU.

Put on your listening ears and grab a crayon:

• What art therapy is (and isn’t)
• The emotions of art media (pencils can be comforting and paint can be overwhelming)
• Art-making and responsive writing: the left- and right-brain connection
• Why talking to your art is helpful (even if it feels weird)
• How art puts you back inside your body and rebuilds your intuition
• What the “no-comment rule,” “process over product,” and “scribble drawings” are
• Art therapy techniques to try at home (with nobody looking!)

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• You’re gonna want to follow Jennifer’s Instagram account. It’s the reason I interviewed her. 
• Redefine yourself and color your life, with art! Download Jennifer’s app, Redefined, to get more info on her core program, weekly emails, video bundles, and group or 1-on-1 coaching. 
• If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com
• I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download
• You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com
• And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

Jennifer Kramer is an artist, licensed art therapist, and online coach who helps women overcome the lasting effects of narcissistic abuse. She is the creator of The Redefined Process, an approach that uses a combination of spontaneous art-making and responsive writing, which she developed while recovering from narcissistic abuse. The Redefined Process works because it engages our bodies and minds in such a way that subconscious emotions, limiting beliefs, and desires are brought to the surface and (quite literally) made visible.

Sometimes a woman will say, “I decided to leave, but now my abuser is being so nice to me! What should I do?” 

Unless an abuser has found a new source of supply, the abuser will want to maintain control over you. He’s been observing what makes you tick for a long time. He's been observing what works and doesn’t work to emotionally manipulate you. He knows how to both push all your buttons AND pull on your heartstrings. 

One of the ways he knows he can pull on a nice girl's strings is to simply make a show of being nice to her, and then the victim thinks, “Oh, let's give him another chance. He's trying so hard, poor hapless man. I must be the wind beneath his wings.” 

We've been programmed to believe these kinds of things. A man can be chronically abusive, but when he’s nice, we think that just negates everything else he has done, but our body knows it’s not true. Our brain has been programmed to believe that if he is nice or says “I’m sorry,” that means he has repented, and we just need to take him back, suck it up, and sweep everything under the rug. But that's not what true repentance or forgiveness is.

This is taken from today’s episode in which I share part of a live emotional abuse Q&A I recently did for my email subscribers. These are people who have requested help and resources from me over the years. Sometimes I create free workshops or special events for everyone on that list. (If you don’t want to miss any articles or events or resources I create for you, be sure to get on that list by going to my website, flyingfreenow.com, and signing up at the top of the page!) 

Here are some of the questions I answered in today’s episode:

• Should I tell my adult children and close friends about the hidden emotional abuse I’m experiencing?
• I feel guilty because we’re in the middle of the divorce process, but all of a sudden, my husband has started being nicer than he’s ever been! 
• Why am I so afraid to tell my husband that I am done with the marriage?
• How do I avoid being triggered in a situation where my needs are being ignored or misunderstood? 
• Is my husband abusive, or just selfish and immature?
• And MORE! 

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Books I recommended in today’s episode: Forgiveness After Trauma, The Body Keeps the Score, The Tools, Divorcing a Narcissist: One Mom's Battle, and A Failure of Nerve.
• I also mentioned my interview with the author of Forgiveness After Trauma, Susannah Griffith, my article called “How to Leave an Emotionally Abusive Relationship: 10 Steps,” and another podcast episode, Episode 280, “Projective Identification in Abusive Relationships.”
• My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. 
• Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. 
• Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.
• Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you. 

Abusers who leave a relationship are as rare as steak tartare. 

In fact, waiting for an abuser to leave is similar to waiting for them to change.

Or asking for a hippopotamus for Christmas. Riding a unicorn. Losing weight on a cake-only diet.

Not likely.

If abusers are so unhappy with their victims, why don’t they leave first? Because staying fits within the point of abuse: to control you. And unless he’s discovered an excellent and easy alternative, you’re an endless supply for your emotional abuser’s selfishness. 

On top of that, if you’re a Christian woman, he knows you take your vows seriously. He’s counting on you to stick it out, no matter what. He’s got “God” on his side. 

Finally, when he mistreats you, like any sane person or hurt puppy, you react, and it ain’t pretty. You’re so ashamed of your behavior. He knows it. So instead of focusing on the harm he’s doing, you’re consumed by what a failure—a raging, bitter wretch of a person—you feel like. And you wonder: Am I the abuser? 

You’re stuck between a boulder (an impossible, destructive marriage) and a hard place (your paralyzing beliefs). 

What now?

This episode is full of answers:

• Where I got $1.75 (and you can too!)
• Why your choice to stay or leave your abuser is less important than your reasons 
• My relation to a judgy jerk (she looks like me, she sounds like me, but I swear, she isn’t me…anymore) and the hope that should give you
• An abuser’s approach to counseling and change versus a survivor’s (one involves kicking and screaming)
• Two analogies to solve your shame and restore your power steering: dogs fighting and a locked car in a parking lot.

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

Imagine two terminally ill children. Both are given three months to live. For one, there’s nothing doctors can do—death is certain. The disease is incurable and untreatable. 

For the second, there’s a life-saving treatment available. If it isn’t taken, the next three months will be a slow, excruciating crawl toward the end. If the treatment is started as soon as possible, the child will live and—what’s more—thrive.

Family, friends, and church leaders of the second child gather around and declare that the life-saving treatment shouldn’t be accepted. Since the first child’s death is certain, it would be best for the second child to accept death as well. The second child should die. In fact, not only is it right to condemn the second child to death, but their suffering and pain will bring glory to God. 

One more thing. The second child is YOUR child. 

Thoughts? 

I have some. So listen in. 

In this episode:

• The 3 main problems with the “suffer like Job” argument
• What the world would be like if this faulty logic worked
• The difference between Job (and Saul) and abused women (it’s not the lack of beards)
• What your role and what’s hanging between your legs have to do with each other (SURPRISE: NOTHING! YAY!)
• A one-two punch of resources to combat the “God hates divorce” lie (it’s more like a 20-30 knockout, but you get the drift)
• What translations of the Bible have to do with all this
• Women who are beasts and like to shovel snow (I swear, it’s relevant)

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

It’s a thief.

Abuse robs us of the truth about ourselves.

Abuse steals our sense of safety.

Abuse consumes our time and energy.

And when we’re overwhelmed by all that abuse has taken from us, we can’t focus on the future or growth or discovery—the things that feed our soul and nurture our lives.

So how do we find that little girl full of dreams again? How do we connect to the young woman who had stars in her eyes? Where’s the door to a sense of belonging and self and fulfillment? How do we build a future on a busted-up past?

I’ve led many women through these questions. And we have to start by getting very precise. Because we don’t find our lives…we create them.

The specifics of this episode:

• Why staying vague with your questions means you’ll never swipe the answers you want
• Which two questions to ask to reclaim what you’ve lost
• The reason “open to interpretation” and “finding yourself” are kissing cousins (ewww)
• How interrupting is a good thing (when it comes to hijacking your thoughts)
• What checking in means and why you should do it (a way to snatch back your reality)
• Why there are so many definitions for who we are (and you get to nick whichever one you want)
• How we can be pickpockets of discovery..for life! (I swear, this is all on the up and up)

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

The thought of contacting a lawyer made her sick. To live through her abusive marriage was hard enough. Would she have to bare all the details of her twisted reality to someone…and pay them for it? Where would she get the money for that, especially since her husband was hiding his paychecks? 

Is your story anything like this?  

I get the hesitation. The fear, the dread, and disgust. Bringing somebody else into your messy life is humiliating. But (and this is a really big but(t)), there are so many really important reasons to contact a lawyer when you’re in an abusive marriage. Because protecting yourself from financial abuse isn’t easy or simple, and it takes someone who knows what they’re doing.

Which leads us to questions. You have so many questions. 

So I invited a lawyer who’s at the top of her game to answer the questions women just like you want (and need) answered. 

Because this knowledge is worth its weight in gold. And your protection is worth even more than that. 

This episode answers:

• What are the signs of financial abuse? 
• What can you do if you’re being financially abused?
• Why is mediation with a narcissist like a waiting room (a very pointless, expensive one)?
• How can I survive financially if I get a divorce?
• My husband racked up credit card debt; am I responsible to pay it off if we divorce?
• Can I file for sole legal custody if my husband shows no interest in the kids?
• My husband is hiding assets but I have no proof; what can I do?
• Is it financial abuse to keep all his earnings to himself?
• What can I do if my husband refuses to pay bills?
• Will my husband’s higher income be taken into account when dividing debt during divorce?
• What can I do if my husband refuses to obey court orders, like paying alimony/child support? (HINT: garnishing wages has nothing to do with salad; who knew?)
• Why is life insurance important when alimony/child support is being paid?
• Should I keep utilities/mortgage in my name?
• And more!

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources: 

• Read Lisa’s popular blog on Legal Matters: Understanding mental health issues as they apply to divorce and child custody. 
• Read more about Lisa on her website.
• Visit the Savvy Ladies site to learn more about how this organization champions the advancement of self-reliant, financially educated women.
• If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com
• I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download
• You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com
• And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

Lisa Zeiderman is a matrimonial attorney, certified family law specialist, certified divorce financial analyst, and managing partner at Miller Zeiderman LLP, based in New York. She was named to the Crain’s New York list of Notable Woman Attorneys for 2022, a Hudson Valley Best Lawyer in 2022, and a 2021 Best Family Law Attorney for Client Satisfaction by the American Institute of Family Law Attorneys. She also serves as the vice president of the board of Savvy Ladies, Inc., a nonprofit helping reduce economic and racial disparities in financial education for women.

I have a confession. 

I’m a recovering asshole. 

Years ago, I had a friend. Her husband cheated on her. Then, he did it again. He kept cheating on her. He wasn’t sorry. 

Do you know what I told her to do?

Stay with him. Pray and stay. Worse, I was proud to tell her this advice. Because I was God’s girl scout, and I knew best. 

Now, I can easily imagine the grief and further pain my words and assumptions added to her heartbreak. I thought everything was black and white. A + B = C, every time. Life was a math problem, and I had the answer. 

Boy, did I eat crow (and that’s just one example). 

But in many ways, I’m no different than everybody else. And there IS an equation that applies to us all:  

Our thoughts make our feelings. Our feelings make our beliefs. And our beliefs make us. 

We become what we believe. We are like the god we worship. 

What’s your god like? And what do you do when someone else’s god says you’re bad? 

The confession progression:

• 5 little “g” gods most people choose from (guess which one I loved)
• Real justice versus the imitation 
• 3 ways to feel only love when people assassinate your character
• Being curious instead of an asshole (it takes some work, but it’s worth it)
• The Equation, Part 2 (extended cut): Your treatment of yourself = Your treatment of others; Your treatment of yourself and others = Your view of God
• Chicken dinners and the future (in case you’re stuffed full of crow too)
• My skincare routine (it’s not made of crow, I promise)
• Social distancing for smart people

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

You’re not a toaster. 

No matter what you've been taught by religious leaders, you’re not a thing to be used.

No matter what you’ve been told by your husband, you’re not an appliance to be owned.

No matter what you’ve come to believe about yourself, you’re not property — at the mercy of a spouse who wants toast on demand. 

If you've found yourself tormented over how you’re treated in your marriage, especially when it comes to sex, and you waver between disgust and despairing “submission,” I have a new bottom line for you.

It's four little letters, and it never justifies your mistreatment. 

In this episode:

• Why using the Bible to justify marital rape is a violation of God’s heart, your value, and marriage
• The amount of education I have in this field (and why it doesn’t matter)
• What three-year-olds and believing the moon is made of cheese have to do with this issue
• Why evolving beliefs are a sign of faith and humility, not sin and arrogance
• The reason I’m okay with you completely disagreeing with me (really)

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

"He wants to treat me better. He just doesn’t know how."

"He says he’s sorry. He really hates how he acts."

"He’s struggling. He can’t help it."

Do you have these thoughts about your husband?

Have these thoughts led to anything good? More peace? Change (on his part)? Hope that lasts? A better marriage? A never-ending bucket of fried chicken?

Didn’t think so. 

I have some other thoughts to offer. You can take them or leave them. They might seem cynical and hopeless on the surface. But I believe they’re the means to all the things you’re hoping for…except one. 

This episode comes with not one but two guarantees: 

Adults have 100% control over their behavior. And you have a 0% chance of making someone grow or change when they don’t want to. 

The episode highlight reel:

• Why acknowledging wrongdoing means nothing (if the wrongdoer is abusive)
• Why his apologies mean squat (if the behavior continues)
• Why WHAT he’s doing matters and WHY he’s doing it means next to nothing
• Why saying he wants to grow means bupkes (if he doesn’t)
• Why an abuser giving “God’s” advice has zero authority
• Why your opinion on all of this matters and everybody’s else’s means zip

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

I have two presents for you.

One is a regift. The other is brand-spanking, hot-off-the-waffle-press new. 

First, I compiled some of the best (and by “best” I mean absolute trash and worst) things people say to Christian women in abusive marriages when they seek help or divorce. 

Second, I’m giving you a comeback. A burn-it-to-the-ground, shred-it-to-cheddar-cheese, drop-the-mic, break-the-wrist-and-walk-away comeback for every single one.  

I know how hard it is to stand before people who attack your character, deny your reality, determine your destiny, and demand your unquestioning allegiance…to your own destruction (in this case…as a married woman). The endless, useless, conflicting platitudes they give instead of real help and logical advice. 

I also know how gutted you feel, how tongue-tied and mind-mushed you are when people spout off what sounds holy and bossy and right but is actually idiotic and damaging. 

So unwrap your presents (press play) and revel in the ridiculous while I slaughter these silly arguments once and for all. 

And you can regift these babies with my blessing. 

In this episode:

• The stupid strawman: “It takes two to tango.”
• The annoying adage: “You’re not perfect either.” 
• The pointless platitude: “Christians are called to suffer well.” 
• The ridiculous reasoning: “Hurt people, hurt people.”
• The airheaded argument: “Your husband isn’t acting like a Christian, so he’s now your mission field.”
• Cooking-with-gas comebacks for these…and more. 

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

If you break abuse down to the nitty-gritty, at its heart is something called “emotional childhood.” Abusers think everybody should make their life work. Everyone should cater to their whims. Everybody is responsible for their emotions. For fixing them, moment by moment. They shouldn’t have to do anything. Like a stunted emotional child. 

If you’re a wife in this situation, you come to believe that you are supposed to fix your husband. You think you’re the only one who can (and that “fixing” him is even possible). 

Any movement to protect yourself, to detach, to assign responsibility to him for HIS OWN LIFE and CHOICES, feels like betrayal and selfishness and just plain gross. Your husband and many religious people would agree. 

Which leads us right back to: Am I responsible for fixing my husband? Is detaching from him to protect myself wrong? 

I’ve been asked these questions hundreds—if not thousands—of times, so I’ve fleshed out an answer that addresses them AND all those icky rabbit trails in your mind. 

And unlike what you’ve been told in church, online, or by your husband, this answer doesn’t require you to throw yourself in a pool to save a person who wants to drown…and drag you under too.  

Get clear explanations like:

• What detachment really is (and why it’s so good and necessary)
• 2 helpful lists highlighting how children think/express themselves (so helpful if you know you’re not living from your values but you’re not sure why)
• Signs you’re living in emotional childhood
• The difference between emotional adulthood and emotional childhood
• Why getting out of abuse doesn’t stop the thought/behavior patterns you’ve learned in destructive relationships (women can get free and still live chained lives if they don’t realize this)
• How to make decisions from peace and wisdom instead of denial and fear (doing this will lead to a level of satisfaction and success you’ve only dreamed of!)
• And more!

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

It’s hammer time.

I’ve broken down the problems churches face when abuse victims come forward (along with how churches usually react). Then, I smash through the fallacies their hurtful behavior is constructed on. Finally, I provide the building blocks of how to respond to abuse like Jesus did, so the church can be a tool of healing instead of just…tools.  

Cause there’s no point in demoing a building if you don’t intend to build something better. 

Here’s how the real church should respond to women begging for help from abusive partners. 

This tool belt of an episode hits on:

• How to drill down to the truth (who the actual abuser is) when a partner reports abuse and asks for help
• Why churches often leave victims with one impossible option (like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole)
• What love truly means in this situation (it’s not a saved marriage) 
• How asking questions can help the church measure twice and cut once (for example: What would motivate a victim to lie? Would a true abuser come forward for help? What does the victim gain by admitting what’s going on? And more)
• Why letting the chips (and sawdust) fall where they may is foundational
• The blueprints in a nutshell: Giving the victim her own power drill

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

“In this book, I want to share parts of my journey paired with reflections based on my background as a biblical scholar to make available forgiveness paths different from the harmful ones so often proffered in the name of God.” 

Susannah Griffith’s book, Forgiveness After Trauma, does exactly that, and it is now my absolute favorite book on forgiveness. In today’s episode, Susannah and I sit down and talk about how we can look at forgiveness in a more healing way than we are accustomed to.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• If you read any book about forgiveness, let it be Susannah’s: Forgiveness after Trauma: A Path to Find Healing and Empowerment. She also has another book called Leaving Silence: Sexualized Violence, the Bible, and Standing with Survivors.
• Connect with Susannah on her website and Instagram.
• My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. 
• Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. 
• Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.
• Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you. 

Susannah is an independent scholar, writer, chaplain, and advocate. Her first book, Leaving Silence, was a finalist for a Christianity Today Book of the Year award. Susannah resides in Northern Indiana with her husband Michael and three young daughters.

Is the last thing you googled, “Am I crazy?” or “Why does my husband hate me?” or the literal title of this episode? 

Bleh. Living in such horrible, constant confusion can make us obsessive. Not crazy obsessive. The “desperate for answers” kind. The “I’m living in purgatory and I hate it!” kind. The “Is it me even though I’m trying so hard?” kind. 

If you’re looking for a fixed point of reference—a way to know what’s real and true, then you’ve stumbled across something better than 6.84 million Google results. Because I’m going to answer your question in incredible detail. 

In this episode, I lay all the cards on the table:

• The messages this crazymaking makes in our brains (which are much more dangerous than the crazymaking and abuse)
• Why your husband’s behavior is not actually creating the problems (WHAT?!? Hear me out.)
• The ONE THING you keep giving your husband that you need to give yourself instead
• Why trusting a man who lies means you can’t trust someone more important (it’s a nasty cycle)
• Resources to help you get off this hamster wheel of horror…for keeps

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

“How Not to Be a Meanie” doesn’t hit the same, does it?

“How Not to Act Out Patriarchal Theology, AKA ‘A Chocolate-Covered Turd’” is probably too long.

And Andrew Bauman wants to get the attention of men who have bought into domination and called it love, and control and called it protection. The men who feel entitled to women’s bodies and minds and service, all in the name of God. Asses. 

How does he tackle the problem? One donkey-sized piece at a time. 

This jam-packed episode includes:

• The unavoidable word “ass”
• What to do if you’re told your husband’s porn addiction is your fault or no big deal (the aud-ass-ity!)
• Why real change isn’t a made bed and an open Bible (it’s actually sooooo boring)
• 5 quick, clear, key differences between a safe man and a giant ass
• How to love the duck you have instead of trying to make it into a cat (we aren’t quacks, we swear)
• What Andrew thinks of marriage intensives/counseling for emotionally abusive men (a hard p-ass)
• Why ass-king the question, “Does your husband know how to use a phone?” is more about you than him (and how it will change your ass-essment of your marriage)

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Connect with Andrew on Facebook.
• Snag or recommend Andrew’s book: How Not to Be an *SS: Essays on Becoming a Good & Safe Man.
• If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com
• I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download
• You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com
• And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

Andrew J. Bauman is a licensed mental health counselor with a master’s degree in counseling psychology from The Seattle School of Theology & Psychology. He’s the author of How Not to Be an *SS, The Sexually Healthy Man, Floating Away, Stumbling Toward Wholeness, The Psychology of Porn, and (with his wife Dr. Christy Bauman) A Brave Lament, a book and award-winning film. He’s also the founder and director of the Christian Counseling Center for Sexual Health & Trauma.

This may be controversial for some of my audience. Twenty years ago, I may have unsubscribed, not understanding what this was actually about. 

What IS this about? It’s about Who God is. It’s about representing Him well. That’s what Jesus did, and that is our calling, as Christians. 

This is about the way we view God and how our view impacts the way we live our lives. We either honor the truth about God’s character or we tell a lie about God’s character. 

This is about a lie I used to believe about God. 

I don’t have the answers. That’s what makes me different from who I was twenty years ago. Back then, I knew everything. And I told everyone so they could also know everything. And I judged everyone who didn’t know everything. Like I did. 

Twenty years later I definitely do NOT know everything. I believe a couple of simple, life-changing things about God, and I run everything through the grid of that simple faith. 

And it brings love and peace and joy into my life, and that hopefully touches the lives of those around me. 

This is a message of love, and yet you might hear it and get upset. I encourage you to get curious about your feelings. They come, not from this message, but from what your brain makes this message mean for you. And it is quite possible your brain will make this message mean something threatening to your programming, and that will feel scary and uncomfortable. 

When Jesus came to this earth with a message of radical love that went against the programming of the people, they got scared and upset too. So much so, that they killed Him. 

All I hope is that this message of love reflects HIS message of love. How would our lives be different if we could just drop into the love of Jesus without fear of condemnation and shame? Without all the religious words and rules and sacrifices? 

Religiously programmed brains are far more comfortable with rules and regulations than simple faith and love. 

It’s okay to get upset. It means your brain is being stretched and challenged, and that’s a good thing. You may decide to keep your brain’s programming, but at least keep it from a place of awareness, intentionality, and choice rather than unaware, non-conscious programming. 

If I could accomplish only one thing with my life, it would be to play a role in raising the awareness of the world I live in today of Who God really is. He is not a control-freak abuser like so many of his followers reflect through their own beliefs and behavior. 

God is Love. Period. What would happen if we believed that? How would we change? How would the world change?

That’s what this episode is about.

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

Did you know that abuse has a bestie?

Its sneaky little friend is Shame. Shame is a talkative fellow but very dependable. 

He hangs on your earlobes and yells: 

“You’re not perfect, so you can’t point out your husband’s faults.”

“You yelled back, so you expect him to stop.”

“You pull away emotionally, so you can’t get angry when he stonewalls.”

“You hit him after he hit you, so you deserved it.”

“You found comfort in someone else’s arms, so you’re just as bad as him.”

“You have no right to expect better when you’re so screwed up.”

Shame keeps us bound and trapped, even long after a divorce. 

So what should you do with these painful, tormenting thoughts?

This episode’s bird’s-eye view:

• How we’re all toddlers running around with giant knives 
• Why what we make things mean matters more than anything else (if that made no sense, you definitely need to listen)
• What to do with the torment of wanting people to support you
• The solution for the shame of your poor choices (it’s warm, thick, organic, and probably grass-fed, and starts with an “L”)
• The cool club you can join if you’re a sinner (HINT: It’s called “The Human Race”)

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

Imagine a world where women are property.

Where they have no rights — not even to defend themselves against abuse or to claim ownership over their minds…to declare, for instance, that they are not insane. That they shouldn’t be held prisoner in an insane asylum because they disagreed with their husband. 

That horrifying world you imagined? You're living in it. 

Of the countless women who’ve gone before you, Elizabeth Packard stands out as one who fought for the oppressed and the voiceless, for her relentless faith, and for freedom.

Her true, daring story has been dug from history, and you need to hear it. Because the impact of her life is still echoing today.

I interviewed award-winning author and champion of women, Kate Moore, to learn more about The Woman They Could Not Silence. I was on the edge of my seat, and you will be too. 

The Recap: 

• How the weapon of Elizabeth’s betrayal is still often used to this day (#MeToo, anyone?)
• Why the worst thing was the best thing (when you’ve got nothing to lose, you’re especially brave)
• The strange and incredible way Kate stumbled upon Elizabeth’s story
• The power of hindsight (100 years later, her legacy is only expanding)
• How writing played a critical part in keeping Elizabeth sane

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Now that you’re fired up, get the book (audio, digital, and print — I tell you my favorite version in the podcast): The Woman They Could Not Silence.
• Women condemned to death. A landmark fight for justice. A world left safer and better by their sacrifice. Read The Radium Girls by Kate Moore.
• Learn more about Kate and what she’s up to on her website.
• If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com
• I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download
• You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com
• And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

Kate Moore is a British writer and the New York Times bestselling author of The Radium Girls, which won the 2017 Goodreads Choice Award for Best History, was voted U.S. librarians’ favorite nonfiction book of 2017, and was named a Notable Nonfiction Book of 2018 by the American Library Association. Her latest book is The Woman They Could Not Silence, the true story of a nineteenth-century housewife who was committed to an insane asylum for daring to defy her husband. TWTCNS is a LibraryReads and Indie Next pick and was the runner-up for Best History in the 2021 Goodreads Choice Awards.

The only reason I’m where I am today — divorced from an abusive husband, healed, remarried to a good man, helping others, and thriving — is because of one simple tool.

I share it in Flying Free and Flying Higher, my online coaching, education, and support communities that are worth their weight in fat-melting chocolate (please science, make this real). 

Today, I'm sharing the best thing I have. 

You get a free, front-row seat to this show. Prepare yourself. Cause I absolutely stake my secret pie stash on the fact that if you use this tool, it will ROCK YOUR WORLD.

In my funky magnum opus for your listening delight:*

• What “CTFAR” means (this is the solid bass line)
• Why we think we’re victims of our circumstances, but we’re really victims of our thoughts (woohoo, the groovy chorus)
• How letting go of control plays a huge part in resetting the stage of our life (cue the irresistible drum solo)
• The important difference between facts and opinions, and feelings and sensations (ooh, the surprising jazzy bridge)
• Why we're all prophets and how to make that a good thing (a tear-jerking fade-out to riotous applause)
• The credits (when you realize YOU ARE THE ROCKSTAR in this story)

*There isn’t actually any music in this episode. I’m sorry. Please imagine me singing all of it, with my blessing.

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

It’s a beautiful sight, isn’t it?

A grown man throwing a tantrum. Stomping around, calling you names, slamming doors. 

Hits you right in the feels, eh? 

Or maybe he’s the quiet type of mean. Stonewalling. Sleeping for days. Leaving for hours without warning.

However a husband’s jerky behavior manifests, most Christian wives are taught to respond the same ways:

Assume you’re the problem. Feel shame. 

Assume you have to endure his behavior. Feel despair.

Assume you have to make his life work. Feel resentment.

For all these common feelings, I’ve got some uncommon alternatives. And they WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE. Which is a lot more attractive than a grown man acting like a two-year-old.

Episode Highlights:

• The “Versus” Game: Ten common thoughts versus ten uncommon responses to abusive behavior (as mind-blowing as finding out that Pluto isn’t a planet anymore, 10x)
• The “Blue Hair” Game: No hair dye needed; you just have to do a bit of reframing your perspective (specifically that he’s a little nuts and you’re not)
• The “Peace Out” Game: The aim is to get your peace back by walking away from disrespect. Worth its weight in gold, people. 
• The “30-Minute” Game: This is when I tell you the podcast is over. It seems like nobody wins this game, but really you just get to binge-listen to a bunch more. (158 episodes more, winky wink.)
• The “I Want to Tell You More But All I’m Really Doing Is Keeping You From Listening to the Podcast Already” Game: You know what to do. Click it. Click the play button. 

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

“He doesn’t even have to be kind. I just wish he wouldn’t make every waking moment a nightmare. What else can I do?” she said into the phone.

“I don’t know,” her sister said. “You’ve done counseling. And prayed. Asked pastors for help. Read books. Been quiet. Spoken up. Given more sex. You’ve borne the consequences of all his poor choices. You’ve pushed your health to the brink to serve him. For years.”

“But I haven’t fasted and prayed for a straight month,” she murmured.

“THIS IS INSANE. YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS BEHAVIOR!” her sister exploded. 

 “Yes,” she said. 

It finally clicked. And in that moment, she knew. 

“I have to separate.”

It was her “enough” moment. And she never looked back. 

A summary form of my two cents:

• There’s no right or wrong answer (but lots of valuable advice; I put my money where my mouth is)
• Important factors that play into calculating this decision (no math needed, phew!)
• The one person who needs to sign this check (Hint: It ain’t your pastor or mother-in-law or dad or boss or a celebrity or Magic 8-ball or even, gasp, God)
• The stinky visitor living rent-free in your brain (May I suggest an eviction notice?)

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

Hit it with a hammer.

Done. 

If only it were that easy. 

In reality, the cycle of emotional and spiritual abuse feels like a freight train rushing down the tracks of your everyday. An unstoppable force. And if you stand in its way, you’ll be run down. A sad little pancake beholden to the destructive patterns you’ve existed in since…who knows when. 

My dear. You forgot about two things.

First: You can’t stop that train. 

Second: You don’t need to stop that train to heal and be free and come into your power. 

Remember the handle thingy on the side of the tracks, controlling the railroad switch? 

Yup. Start there. 

In this episode:

• A heart-warming tale of what the Flying Free podcast is accomplishing in the lives of survivors
• How many nickels I theoretically have and why (very important)
• What love has to do with breaking cycles (I’ve got a great, but super old, example)
• The reason giraffes refuse to have short necks (a purely scientific explanation)
• Why authentic growth is the opposite of abusive control 

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

Are you confused over whether you have legitimate grounds for divorce?

How should you respond to people who claim you’re cynical and oversensitive when you try to speak against emotional and spiritual abuse?

What’s the best way to handle family members, especially children, who think you’re the bad guy in your abusive marriage?

What if you’re separated but you just aren’t ready to divorce…and the clock keeps ticking? 

Limbo is a fun party game…and a lousy place to live. So let me offer some advice that will break you out of the ruts these difficult questions might have you stuck in.

Highlights from this episode:

• The three main Christian views on divorce (and how your belief in God informs your view on divorce)
• Why the future has a hefty price tag (and how to determine what price you want to pay for which future)
• What pigs and pearls have to do with hard conversations (it’s not the smell or the irritation)
• Why Jesus is “in a ditch” instead of trying to convince other people they’re wrong (and how this example applies to us)
• The effects of living in limbo (and I don’t mean the ridiculous, back-breaking game)

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

Abusers will project their own inner identity and issues onto their victims. Let’s talk about what that means, how it impacts a survivor, and what you can do about it.

Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• The YouTube video that inspired this episode, “Projective Identification Explained.”
• The book by Tina Swithin I mentioned, Divorcing a Narcissist: One Mom’s Battle. 
• My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. 
• Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. 
• Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.
• Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you. 

Is your husband great at playing dress up? 

One moment, usually in public, he speaks sweetly, cuddles the baby, and prays over your family. The next moment, usually in the privacy of your home, he glares at you, yells in disgust, and gives you the silent treatment. 

He’s the sun and a raging storm. 

He’s heaven and hell.

He’s…? How do you figure out reality? How do you come to terms with the oil and water of who he is? 

And what do you do when nobody believes that he and others like him are actually wolves in sweet, little sheep’s clothing?

In this Q&A, I discuss:

• Why serial killers are a great analogy for victims of emotional abuse
• Why “embracing reality” is critical (you NEED the truth to be free)
• How Flying Free can be a pivotal part of your journey to wholeness
• What fear over people’s perceptions leads to (it ain’t pretty)
• What you can do to get your power and freedom back

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

Feeling like a moldy lemon? 

Maybe you’re just an onion.

If you've escaped the horror of a destructive relationship, but you still feel numb, anxious, depressed, and like a steaming hot mess...it's easy to believe that “being jacked up” is the new normal. And your whole identity.

It’s not. In fact, what you're searching for is closer than you can believe:

You're still a whole person. Your true self isn’t lost. Your body is actually trying to help you heal. The best of you is still there.

But some of these things are covered by layers. Like an onion. 

Coatings of trauma. Blankets of pain. Wrappings of core wounds. Cocooned lies. 

Want to know how to find that sweet little onion core again? Sara Richmond and I explore this very question.

Listen as we discuss the following revelations and more: 

• How your story (and information about abuse) can be a distraction from real healing
• Why “brokenness” is a crappy description for survivors (and a better word that she's claimed)
• Why our bodies often "act" broken (HINT: Whatever you resist, persists)
• What embracing her emotional stress through somatic therapy revealed to Sara (it was sad but extremely powerful)
• Examples of triggers that she and I peeled back and reset
• The word that Natalie couldn’t remember (sadly, it wasn’t “onion”)

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com

I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download

You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com

And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

There’s a reason why people say all abuse is physical abuse. Emotional abuse is a double whammy, destroying your mind and your body. 

Long after the abuse stops, you’re still dealing with the fallout. 

It can feel like your body has failed you. Like you’re permanently broken. It can feel hopeless and frustrating. 

So how do you regain your health and fitness in the aftermath of abuse? 

Kylar has a unique approach, one of endless compassion, wisdom, and empathy. Because he’s been there too. And it works. Now he’s healthy and strong, from the inside out and helping others just like you. 

Listen to:

• The amazing story behind Kylar’s 22 years of abuse and 19-year fitness journey 
• Why high-intensity workouts are NOT a good idea for survivors (what a relief)
• How our perspective on physical health aligns with patriarchy and shame-based fitness culture
• The biggest contributor to the aging process (HINT: it’s not time)
• How a simple and intuitive approach is the best, with examples

Access the transcript, read the show notes, and/or ask Natalie a question here

Related Resources:

• Find Kylar on Facebook
• Check out Kylar’s blog
• If you are a Christian woman who thinks you may be in an emotionally destructive marriage, learn more at https://flyingfreenow.com
• I'll send you (free!) the first chapter of my book, Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage, which has an assessment to help you figure out if your relationship is abusive or not. All you have to do is hop on my mailing list at https://flyingfreesisterhood.com/free-download
• You can also find out about our online education and support program for women of faith at https://joinflyingfree.com
• And finally, if you are a divorced Christian woman who wants to take back her life and get healthy, lose weight, have amazing relationships, get things done, build a business or career, and even find a good man (if you want one) - check out Flying Higher at https://joinflyinghigher.com

Kylar Dunn is a massage therapist, personal trainer, and life coach. He grew up in an abusive, hyper-religious home and later developed complex-PTSD and related health issues. After embracing the courage to leave home at age 22, he became obsessed with the health journey, physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. Kylar combined education and research with intuitive body awareness to navigate the tightrope of challenging health symptoms, including extreme fatigue and the inability to build muscle. Today, he helps survivors care for their bodies and live the lives they dream.