Joe's Five Rules for Building a World for Yourself
Joe Beddia didn’t just build one of the best pizzerias in America—he built a world. From the moment you walk down the alley and step through the door at Pizzeria Beddia, you can feel that every detail exists for a reason. In this episode, Joe shares his Five Rules for Building a World for Yourself, from finding work that genuinely inspires you to surrounding yourself with people you want to spend your days alongside. We also talk about the challenge of protecting your values as success arrives, why your name is your most valuable asset, and how building something lasting requires equal parts conviction, curiosity, and restraint. Whether you’re opening a restaurant, starting a business, or simply trying to create a life that feels like your own, Joe’s rules are a thoughtful roadmap for doing meaningful work on your own terms.
There’s something about going home to Philadelphia that always resets me. Maybe it’s because so much of who I am was shaped there, or maybe it’s because the city has always rewarded people who care more about substance than spectacle. Every trip home is an excuse to revisit old favorites, but even more than that, it’s a chance to see what people have built since I left. Joe’s restaurant is one of those places. It isn’t just a great pizzeria—it feels complete. Every corner, every plate, every decision reflects the same point of view. As someone who spends a lot of time talking to people about creativity, I find fully realized visions endlessly inspiring. They’re a reminder that the best work doesn’t happen by accident. It happens when someone has the courage to imagine an entire world—and then patiently builds it, one decision at a time.
Five Rules for Building a World for Yourself
Joe Beddia
Hi everyone, before we get into today’s episode, I have a little bit of housekeeping to take care of. I am so excited to announce that I am partnering with the Food Institute who has acquired HRN and is the new home for Five Rules for the Good Life. Together, we’re going to be growing I couldn’t be more excited about this new partnership and excited to see where we take the show.
Introduction
Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz.
Today, I’m in my hometown of Philadelphia chatting with Joe Beddia, the chef and owner of Pizzeria Beddia and the author of the incredible pizza book Pizza Camp. He’s here to share his Five Rules for Building a World for Yourself.
We talk about the importance of doing things that inspire you, working with people you want to be around, and staying true to your vision and values as you grow. It’s a great conversation for anyone starting their own business—or anyone looking to build something meaningful with intention.
So let’s get into the rules.
Building a World
Joe, so good to see you. Thanks again for all the hospitality the last time I was in Philly. Welcome to the show.
Thank you. Excited to be here.
For anyone who’s ever visited Pizzeria Beddia, they really get a sense of your vision. How did you approach bringing your worldview and mentality into the restaurant?
I had a unique circumstance where I had a very small pizzeria for five years. It was literally myself making pizza in a 300-square-foot shoebox. When our lease was up, I was approached by a startup restaurant group in Philadelphia. I got creative control over the menu, the design, and everything, which is probably pretty rare.
I worked with a lot of friends and really tried to create something special. It was a different time. We were developing this in 2017. Money was different. We did it for a lot less and got a lot more for our dollar.
I was there when it opened, and I was there a couple months ago. You can still feel the DNA of what you wanted to build, even though it’s evolved over the years. How has it changed?
It’s evolved through the people. We have different cooks now. Our head chef and sous chefs are different. I’d probably say the restaurant is the best it’s ever been. That’s really a testament to those individuals and how they’re able to work together.
At this point, I don’t really want any credit. I created something, but I’d like them to take ownership. Giving someone the opportunity to be creative and own new menu items has been amazing.
From my perspective, it’s such a great experience because you walk down this little alleyway, see the neon sign, walk through the door, and suddenly you’re inside this whole world you’ve built. What do you hope people feel when they come here?
I like keeping tradition alive by using really great ingredients and making well-fermented dough, but I also like stretching ourselves creatively. We pickle strawberries and make burrata salads. You can come for a traditional pizza that reminds you of your childhood, but you can also have a great soft serve with amaro on top or a beautiful bottle of wine.
It’s about honoring tradition while giving ourselves permission to be creative in the same space.
Now that you’ve been open since 2019, written an incredible book, and received so much recognition, I’m excited for you to share your Five Rules for Building a World for Yourself.
Rule One
Go Where You Feel Comfortable
A lot of people feel like they have to constantly push themselves or chase opportunities that don’t really fit who they are. But your first rule is about grounding yourself before you build something.
What’s Rule Number One?
Go where you feel comfortable.
That’s a tricky thing because you should absolutely challenge yourself. But you should also feel like you’re in a space that makes sense for you.
You want to work for a great chef. It might be difficult. But if you’re learning and growing, every failure becomes growth.
It’s kind of like Philadelphia. You come into this town and it’s rough around the edges. But once you prove yourself, people invite you into their homes. Kitchens work the same way. You have to earn your place.
Rule Two
Find What Inspires You
You have to be inspired enough that you’re willing to dedicate your time—and really part of your life—to something.
I feel fortunate because I became obsessed with pizza while working in restaurants. I’d travel to New York, visit all the old-school places, go to Di Fara, Totonno’s, Una Pizza. I was fascinated by serious pizza makers.
Eventually I started experimenting on my own and realized, “I want to take a shot at this.”
How do you become inspired? For me, it was traveling and tasting. That’s what changed everything. Once I found that inspiration, I decided to go all in.
Rule Three
Work With People You Want to Be Around
Going all in on a restaurant means endless hours. Finding the right people to spend those hours with is one of the hardest parts.
What’s Rule Number Three?
Work with people you want to be around.
Someone doesn’t have to have the most experience in the world. They just have to be a good person. They need to care, show initiative, and be interested in learning.
You can teach almost anyone the technical side of the job if they’re passionate about the work.
Rule Four
Figure Out What Medicine Works for You
Even if you’ve found inspiration and surrounded yourself with good people, this work is still incredibly difficult. There are great days and terrible days.
Rule Number Four?
Figure out what medicine works for you.
It’s a little tongue-in-cheek because when I started, the medicine that worked for me was drinking—which isn’t something I’d recommend to anyone.
Eventually it led me down a path where I was overusing alcohol to deal with stress. That pushed me toward therapy and healthier ways of dealing with anxiety.
I’m not sober, but I have a completely different perspective than I did in 2013 when I opened the original pizzeria. I just opened a restaurant in London, and I realized that one of my rules now is simply finding something healthy that genuinely works for you.
There’s a tremendous amount of stress in this business, and you need a way to manage it.
Rule Five
Your Name Is Your Currency
Now that you have two restaurants and years of success behind you, I’m sure you’ve had opportunities that didn’t align with the world you wanted to build.
Your fifth rule is about staying true to yourself.
Trying to stay true to who you are and your values.
There are always going to be offers. People will want you to sell something or attach your name to something you don’t really believe in.
As I’ve gotten older, I’ve done less and less of those things.
Your name is your currency. It’s all you really have. So you want to spend it on things you genuinely believe in and can be proud of.
Closing
Joe, congratulations on everything.
If people want to come have a slice, a whole pie, a bottle of wine, or simply experience the world you’ve built, where should they go?
Pizzeria Beddia, 1313 North Lee Street in Philadelphia. Or Bar Aetna in the Newington Green neighborhood of London.
Incredible. Joe, I can’t wait. I’ll be back for Thanksgiving and we’ll definitely stop by to pick up some pies to bring home.
Thanks for making the time. Great to see you as always.
Chef Adrianne Calvo has built a life around the belief that flavor is the ultimate north star. As the chef, writer, and restaurateur behind Chef Adrianne's Vineyard Restaurant and Bar in Miami, she has spent her career proving that the fundamentals never go out of style. In this episode, she breaks down her Five Rules for Cooking with Maximum Flavor — from why the real work happens before anything ever hits the pan, to how controlling moisture is the secret most cooks overlook, to why the final ten percent of a dish is responsible for ninety percent of its impact. Whether you are cooking for the people you love or just trying to get more out of what you make at home, this one will change the way you think about what's on your plate.
What I love about sitting down with Chef Adrianne is that she reminds you that flavor is not a technique, it's a commitment. It's easy to chase trends, to pile on ingredients, to rush to the finish line — and she calls all of that out with such clarity and warmth that you immediately want to go back into the kitchen and start over. The way she talks about tension, contrast, and intention made me think less about cooking and more about how the best experiences in life are the ones that engage you rather than just comfort you. That's the kind of conversation that sticks with you long after the meal is over
For my first piece for Caper, I wrote about Jingbo Lou and the incredible community he has helped build at L.A.’s Alpine Courtyard. His approach to the landlord-tenant relationship is a true innovation and something that could be a north star for the shifting restaurant landscape.
Introduction
Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I’m in Miami sitting down with chef, writer, restaurateur, and teacher, Adrianne Calvo, whose spot, Chef Adrianne’s Vineyard, Restaurant, and Bar, has been serving up. She’s here to share her five rules for cooking with maximum flavor. She talks about the importance of preparation before putting anything in the pan, that the amount of moisture in a dish can be maker and that the final 10% of finishing determines 90% of its impact. It is a great conversation for anyone who leads with flavor in the kitchen as looking for extra tips to get the most out of what they make at home. So let’s get into the rules.
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Sabrina Rudin
lundi 6 avril 2026 • Durée 12:15
This week on Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with Sabrina Rudin, the force behind Spring Cafe in Aspen and New York. She is also the author of Healthy with a Side of Happy, which comes out on April 28th, and shares her Five Rules for Cooking Vegetarian Food. Not trends, not rules for the sake of rules, but food that makes you feel good and keeps you coming back for more. We talk about what it actually means to cook and eat well without overcomplicating it. Skip the fake meat. Cook with what’s in season. Look outside your usual rotation. Make it satisfying. And most importantly, let the food do the talking.
What I love about Sabrina is that she doesn’t hedge. She’s not trying to trick you into eating vegetables. She’s not disguising them or apologizing for them. She cooks them like they matter, because they do. There’s confidence in that. You feel it in the way she talks about a squash or a bowl of lentils the same way someone else might talk about a steak. It’s direct, it’s honest, and it works. You leave the conversation wanting to cook, not convert. You want to make something that tastes good, fills you up, and maybe shifts how you think about what a meal can be.
Thank you to Lesley Suter & Noah Galuten for having me on Food Parents last week. We swap recipes for our kids, talk about the last wins we had in the kitchen, and I share how I sneak Red Boat Fish Sauce into everything.
Introduction
Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz Today, I’m joined by Sabrina Rudin, who is the owner of Spring Cafe in Aspen and the author of Healthy with a Side of Happy, 100 Plant-Based Recipes to Feed Your Family. She shares her five rules for cooking vegetarian food and preaches the importance of foregoing faux meat when cooking dinner, that by experimenting with different cuisines and flavors, you will open your palate to a world of deliciousness and that just because it doesn’t have meat doesn’t mean it isn’t hearty. It is a great conversation for anyone who’s already foregone any carnivorous eating habits and for those who want to eat less meat and add a lot more vegetables to their cooking. So let’s get into the rules.
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Garrett Oliver
lundi 30 mars 2026 • Durée 10:40
Garrett Oliver travels the way most people want to, with purpose, curiosity, and a very good palate. In this episode, the Brooklyn Brewery brewmaster and global bon vivant breaks down his Five Rules for Great Traveling. It starts before you even take off. Dress well, take care of yourself, and bring your own sense of hospitality onto the plane. From there, it is about where you land and how you move. Stay close to what matters. Use something as simple as the best baguette in Paris to guide your neighborhood. Spend time in markets, both old and new, to understand how a place actually lives. And when you find somewhere that feels right, go back. Again and again.
What I love about this conversation is how intentional it is. Garrett does not just travel often, he travels well. Every choice has a reason behind it, from what cocktail he packs on a flight to how he chooses a neighborhood to stay in. Talking to someone with that level of experience sharpens your own instincts. It reminds you that great travel is not about checking boxes, it is about paying attention. About building rituals. About knowing what matters to you and using that as your compass. This episode is a reminder that the difference between a good trip and a great one usually comes down to how much thought you put into it before you even leave.
For my latest profile for Fine Dining Lovers, Miles Thompson, the chef and co-owner of Baby Bistro in LA, took me through his three-hundred-and-twenty-six cookbook collection. He talked about the books that inspired him and how they shaped the food he serves today.
Introduction
Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life.
I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. It’s always a pleasure when I get to sit down with my friend and world-traveling bon vivant, Garrett Oliver, who is the brewmaster of the Brooklyn Brewery, author of The Brewmaster’s Table, and editor-in-chief of the Oxford Companion to Beer.
He’s here today to share his five rules for great traveling and talks about how knowing where Paris’ best baguette can be your go-to guide for where to stay, how by taking care of yourself on a flight will be the best kickoff to any trip, and that to truly understand any city, you should understand its markets.
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Chris Valdes
lundi 23 mars 2026 • Durée 08:28
Chris Valdes cooks with a point of view, and it starts with where he comes from. In this episode, the Miami chef and TV host breaks down his Five Rules for Using Food as Identity. He talks about cooking with your story at the center, why success only matters if you share it, and how taking care of your body is non-negotiable if you want to stay in the game. There is a through line to everything he says. The small moments matter. The daily rituals count. The goal is not the highlight reel, it is building a life that feels good to live, one meal at a time.
What I love about Chris is how grounded it all feels. There is ambition there, real drive, but it is anchored in generosity and perspective. He is not chasing the next big thing at the expense of everything else. He is paying attention. He is taking care of himself. He is making space for other people. It is a reminder that you can build something meaningful without burning out or losing the plot. That kind of clarity is rare, and it sticks with you.
Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.
Introduction
Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life.
I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz.
Today, I chat with Miami chef and TV host, Chris Valdes, who’s here to share his five rules for using food as identity. He talks about how the best males are never eaten alone, how taking care of your body is an essential ingredient for a healthy career, and that the good life isn’t just red carpets and big moments, it’s elevating it every day. It’s a great conversation for those looking to stay in the game for the long haul. and how having an open mind to what comes your way is a great way to live your best life.
So let’s get into the rules.
Welcome & Opening Question
Chris, so nice to meet you. Thank you for taking the time out of your busy week in Miami to sit down for a chat. Welcome to the show.
Hey, thank you for having me. I’m so excited.
Food has always been at the center of your family and your life. How has it shaped who you are?
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Kat Kinsman
lundi 16 mars 2026 • Durée 11:24
Kat Kinsman knows a thing or two about restaurants. As the executive features editor at Food & Wine and host of the podcast Tinfoil Swans, which is coming back at the end of March, she has spent years telling the stories behind the people who cook, serve, and gather around the table. In this episode, she shares her Five Rules for Staying Present (and Delighted) at Dinner. They are simple in theory and surprisingly powerful in practice. Believe there is no better table than the one you’re sitting at. Say the nice thing out loud. Take a mental snapshot instead of reaching for your phone. Don’t feel obligated to post. And when the night ends, send the text that says you had a great time. It is a blueprint for getting more joy out of a meal and the people you share it with.
I will admit this is something I struggle with. When you spend your life around restaurants and hospitality, it is easy to slip into work mode or get distracted by the next thing. Kat’s rules are a great reminder of why we sit down to eat in the first place. When I plan a dinner, it is almost always with the people I love the most. Friends, family, the people who make life feel a little bigger. Her approach pushes me to slow down, put the phone away, and actually live inside those moments. Because if you are lucky enough to be at a table with people you care about, there really is no better place to be.
Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.
Introduction
Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz.
Today, I chat with executive feature editor at Food & Wine, the host of Tinfoil Swans, Kat Kinsman, who shares her five rules for staying present and delighted at dinner.
She talks about how looking at your phone can leave you wanting more from a night out, to be open and honest about what you love, and that if you embrace this approach, the next meal out might be the best one you’ve ever had.
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Al Doyle
lundi 9 mars 2026 • Durée 12:07
On this episode of Five Rules for the Good Life, Darin Bresnitz sits down with Al Doyle, one of the musicians behind the sounds of Hot Chip & LCD Soundsystem, and the co-founder / co-designer of Relax and Enjoy Studio in Shoreditch, London. Al shares his Five Rules for Making Music You Like. The conversation moves from childhood piano experiments to the very different recording philosophies behind his two bands, and the thinking that goes into producing music that lasts. Along the way, he talks about the discipline of listening, the power of simplicity, and the confidence it takes to trust your own instincts in the studio.
What makes Al’s rules interesting is that they apply to so much more than making music. They are about creating anything. Writing, painting, cooking, filmmaking, building a business, hosting a dinner. The mechanics are different, but the mindset is the same. Start with something you actually like. Keep the structure simple enough so the idea can breathe. Spend more time paying attention than constantly tinkering. Learn enough about your craft that you can rely on yourself when things get complicated. And when the crowd pushes you toward something safe or expected, sometimes the best move is to lean the other direction and see what happens. Creativity is rarely about doing more. Most of the time it is about knowing when to stop and trust the thing you already made.
Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.
Transcript
Introduction
Hello and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life.
I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz.
It is always a pleasure when I get to sit down with today’s guest, Al Doyle, who is a member of both Hot Chip and LCD Sound System and a designer and owner of Relax and Enjoy Studio in Shoreditch, London.
He’s here today to share his five rules for making music you like. He talks about the importance of listening and not changing too much, the fundamentals of being both ambitious and self-sufficient, and that sometimes doing nothing is the best way to make something happen.
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Fermín Núñez
lundi 2 mars 2026 • Durée 08:36
In this episode of Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with chef and restaurateur Fermín Núñez to, who shares his Five Rules for a Proper 48 Hour Trip. He talks about traveling with purpose, from taking the earliest flight to packing light to fully disconnecting once you land. We get into why having a clear reason for going, whether it’s a specific restaurant, a soccer game, or a neighborhood you want to understand, changes the entire experience. This is a conversation about using limited time well, finding inspiration through food and place, and returning home sharper than when you left.
What resonates most with me is the idea of traveling with intention and having an anchor. I’ve learned that if I don’t build a trip around one meaningful plan, a reservation, a game, or a person I want to see, the time slips away. But if I overfill the schedule, I miss the magic. The balance is having one strong reason to go and leaving the rest open. That structure creates freedom. It allows you to be present, to wander, to notice something unexpected. That’s when a quick trip stops feeling like an escape and starts feeling like a reset.
Chef Fermín Núñez of Austin’s Suerte and Este teams up with Jorge Gaviria, the founder of Masienda and bestselling author of MASA, to bring their combined time in professional kitchens and on the streets of Mexico to the page in Vitamina T. They understand that these dishes are not static. They evolve. They travel. They adapt. And here, they show you how to cook them with clarity and confidence at home.
Transcript
Introduction
Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life.
I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz.
It is always a pleasure to see and sit down with today’s guest, chef and restaurateur Fermín Núñez, whose restaurant and bar in Austin are some of my favorite places to hit when I’m in town. He shares his five rules for a proper 48-hour trip.
We share the same love of getting up early and getting on the road, the key balance to having an anchor for your trip but not filling up all of your time, and how disconnecting on the road allows you to come back home recharged.
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Maxine Sharf
lundi 23 février 2026 • Durée 11:31
Today’s guest is Maxine Scharf, the culinary creator and recipe developer behind Maxi’s Kitchen. She shares her Five Rules for Turning Your Passion Into Your Career, and what goes into making the leap, staying consistent, and creating work people genuinely want to bring into their homes. We talk about the moment her career pivoted, what it actually takes to build momentum online, and how a passion project turns into a real business. We also get into her first cookbook, Maxie’s Kitchen: Easy Go-To Recipes to Make Again and Again, out March 3rd, 2026.
There’s a point in every creative life where the idea stops feeling hypothetical and starts feeling like a dare. Betting on yourself sounds romantic until you’re the one doing the betting. It’s uncomfortable, uncertain, sometimes terrifying. But when the passion is real, the bigger risk is often standing still. Belief is the spark, dedication is the structure, consistency is the engine, hard work is the daily proof. That combination doesn’t guarantee success, but it gives you something better, a real shot.
Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.
Transcript
Five Rules for the Good Life
Introduction
Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life. I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz. Today, I sit down with culinary creator, recipe developer, and the creative force behind Maxie’s Kitchen, Maxine Scharf. She’s here to share her five rules for turning your passion into your career. She talks about the importance of just getting started, how consistency is key, and that the bigger your dream, the better you can get. It’s a great conversation for anyone who’s looking to kickstart their own creative project or grow their followers. She also shares some of the stories and inspiration behind her first cookbook, Maxie’s Kitchen, easy go-to recipes to make again and again, which comes out March 3rd, 2026. So let’s get into the rules.
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Matt Rodbard
lundi 16 février 2026 • Durée 13:35
In this episode of Five Rules for the Good Life, I sit down with Matt Rodbard, Editor-In-Chief of Taste, the co-host of This Is Taste podcast, and his sub-stack, Food Time with Matt Rodbard, which is required reading if you care about what’s actually happening in food right now. Matt shares his Five Rules for a Food Writer’s Diet, from dialing in your relationship with alcohol, to balancing dining out with cooking at home, to traveling like a journalist, to permitting yourself to call simple meals “cooking.” We also get into coffee as a daily practice, the kind of ritual that sets the tone before the day starts moving too fast.
I love sitting down with Matt because the conversation always lands in that sweet spot between fun, useful, and insider whisperings. We can yap, we can talk scene, we can talk craft, and somehow it always ends with something I always think back on after we part. When food is both your profession and your personal driver, the line between work and pleasure gets blurry fast. Matt is great at naming the difference between mindless consumption and intentional living. Eating and drinking with intention is not about restriction, it’s about clarity. It’s about supporting restaurants, taking care of your body, staying present in the room, and building routines that make the whole ecosystem, your work, your relationships, your energy, actually sustainable.
Five Rules for the Good Life is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.
Intro
Hello, and welcome to Five Rules for the Good Life.
I’m your host, Darin Bresnitz.
Today, I sit down with one of my favorite people to talk about the culinary community with, Matt Rodbard, who is the Editor-In-Chief of Taste, the co-host of podcast, and his sub-stack, , is must-reading for anyone who wants insider insights for the food scene. He shares his five rules for a food writer’s diet. and talks about the importance of dining out versus cooking at home, that when traveling, how to get the most out of your adventures, and that by having a preferred coffee practice in the morning is the best way to ensure a fantastic day. I love any time that I get to sit down with Matt. It’s always filled with a fun conversation, a professional take on cooking, and some great takeaway tips for anyone who’s looking to get the most out of life when it comes to food. So let’s get into the rules.
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Getting Started: A Culinary Journey
Chef Adrianne, so nice to meet you. Thank you for sitting down with me all the way from Miami. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. You got into the culinary world at such a young age. What foods and flavors drew you in?
I got into the — yeah, I wanted to be a journalist. I was put in a cooking class by mistake my junior year of high school, and it wasn’t until Johnson and Wales University came in and did a demo doing a strawberry and cream cheese stuffed French toast that completely enchanted and captivated me. That exact dish that made me switch paths for the rest of my life.
Hopping on this path must have opened up such a big world to you and put you on so many adventures, including heading to Napa Valley, which was a big inspiration for you in your life and your restaurant, Chef Adrianne’s Vineyard Restaurant and Bar. What was it about that area that inspired you so much?
One of the culinary competitions that I had won while at Johnson & Wales University, and I chose to go to Napa Valley because going to culinary school, they really focus on that connection of the land, the food, and the wine and how it makes people feel. I’ve been hearing about for two years now. I want to feel it. I want to go experience it. And I wasn’t even of legal drinking age. Boots on the ground. I remember going with my mom and I was like, oh my gosh, everything they said is real. This is like Narnia for bon vivant. I remember thinking one day, if I ever have a restaurant, I want to bring that feeling to Miami. At that time, Miami was really missing the mark. There was no connection to land, food, wine, sitting down at a table, bursting with different flavors, really knowing the story of where your food came from. Don’t even get me started on the wine. I don’t even know if Miami knew the term wine in the early 2000s. Napa really inspired my very first restaurant, Chef Adrian’s Vineyard Restaurant and Bar.
That’s not to say that your restaurant doesn’t follow those, but it seems that flavor is your North Star. Oh, yes. Why does that element of cooking dictate everything you do? It’s the fundamental belief that trends come and go. And much like fashion, Coco Chanel that said, what’s great will always be great. I’m just paraphrasing it. That’s what classics are. And you are right. We don’t follow trends. We’re actually the opposite of that. The human experience of being able to find the guiding principles in your cooking and your life and your business makes me so excited for you to share your five rules for cooking with maximum flavor.
Rule #1: Build Flavor Before Heat Ever Touches the Pan
Your first rule is something that I have gotten so much better at and learned the importance of as I’ve cooked over the years. What’s your rule number one?
Rule number one is build flavor before heat ever touches the pan. So many people rush to get things in a pan. Maximum flavor doesn’t begin at the stove. It begins in preparation, seasoning your proteins in advance, tempering ingredients the right way, and understanding how salt migrates and what separates dimensional cooking from flat execution.
Rule #2: Control Moisture Like It’s Currency
You talk about salt and you talk about adding flavor. Some of the times when people prepare a dish in advance, there’s a marinade or they’re drawing moisture out. It can affect the way that things actually cook, especially if you’re looking for a crust with the steak or a nice type of sear. Your rule number two talks about keeping this in mind when it comes to moisture.
Rule number two is control moisture like its currency. Water is the silent saboteur of flavor. Excess moisture prevents caramelization and this is like a big deal for me. So many cooks and even well-trained chefs don’t realize you just take a scallop that’s very moist by nature and you season it and then you throw it in a pan to try and get that nice sear on it. Yeah. You’re never going to get a sear. You’re just going to poach or steam that scallop. You’re never going to get color on it. You’re going to overcook it to death. Removing that moisture, taking that extra step to pat it dry. Oh my goodness, that’s a secret. You want that sear, that char, and you can only achieve that by removing the moisture.
Rule #3: Layer with Intent, Not Excess
Removing items when you’re cooking and editing, especially when you reference someone like Coco Chanel, is really important to achieve the final result that you want. And even though you talk about maximum flavor, that doesn’t always mean more is more. What’s your rule number three?
Rule number three is layer with intent, not excess. More ingredients do not equal more flavor. Precision does. Intention does. Think in layers. Fat for richness, acid for lift, salt for amplification, heat for a little intrigue, and texture for memory. Just think of something simple like a burger or a hot dog, and sometimes people will put potato chips on it, and that crunch really makes a difference. Just having that sensory really makes for that unforgettable bite. The fat versus the acid, the salt versus the sweet — that balancing of flavors really does make an impact when you’re putting together any sort of either savory or sweet dish or just cooking for something that really is going to awaken the palate. Your rule number four talks about how comfort isn’t always the goal.
Rule #4: Cook for Contrast, Not Comfort
Oh no. What’s your fourth rule?
Rule number four is cook for contrast, not comfort. The palate remembers tension. Crisp against tender, bright against deep, hot against cool. Oh my gosh, when you think hot against cool you just think of warm apple caramel tart and then cold ice cream. A perfectly cooked dish without contrast is forgettable. A dish that plays with opposition becomes addictive. Great cooking doesn’t soothe, it engages you.
You put all this time into cooking, you’ve had this preparation, you’ve thought about the balance, you’ve controlled the moisture. Your fifth and final rule talks about pulling it all together and it’s where a lot of people, including myself, get really nervous right before you present what you’ve cooked to the people you love. What’s your rule number five?
Rule #5: Finish Like It Matters
Finish like it matters because you’re cooking for the people you love. Oftentimes, you’re pulling it out of the oven. You just, boom, goes on the table. It’s a race to the finish line. But the final 10% of a dish determines 90% of its impact. A squeeze of acid right at the end, a drizzle of olive oil, fresh herbs — I love that.
Where to Find Chef Adrianne
Well, if anyone wants to try your complete dishes at the restaurant or join any of your cooking classes on live streams or pick up your book, where can they go? How can they follow along with what you’re up to and what you’re doing in the world?
You can follow me on socials at Chef Adrianne, and that’s the same handle for YouTube, for the livestream, for the channel, or you can pick up any of my cookbooks on Amazon or wherever books are sold. Amazing. Congratulations to everything. I can’t wait to swing to the restaurant next time I’m in Miami. Oh, thank you so much for having me. It was awesome, and congratulations on everything you’re doing.
Sabrina, so nice to meet you. Thank you for making the time to sit down and chat with me. Excited to have you on the show. I’m so excited to be here. Thank you for having me. We are knee deep in the Winter Olympics, which I know is something close to your heart as a former snowboard instructor. Oh, gosh. What do you love the most about being out on the slopes? I love the peace and quiet of it. I love early morning tracks, either fresh powder or a groomed run, just getting out there and seeing all the snow and the trees and being in nature. I also love the adrenaline. There’s nothing like dropping into a run on your snowboard. Both of those two things combined just really does it for me. I love getting out on the slopes. I did as a kid and just got back into it recently. And what I found that hasn’t changed is that the food that I find at the lodges can be super heavy, not the energy I need. You can’t ski after it. You found the same thing. And instead of just complaining about it, you wound up opening up your own place, Spring Cafe Aspen. Why was it so important to you to offer a different culinary option for those hitting the slopes?
The Origin of Spring Cafe
Well, I was living out in Aspen after college teaching snowboarding. I spent a lot of time there growing up. I would wake up really early to get to line up to get our lesson assignments. And then I would finish a day of skiing. All I wanted was a cozy, comforting, big bowl of food that would leave me feeling really good. I wanted a vegetarian option. Mm hmm. It’s an activity driven lifestyle. I wanted something vibrant. I wanted bright colors, cabbage and broccoli and tofu and brown rice, juices and smoothies and all the foods that I know fuel you that don’t leave you feeling bloated and tired and heavy. And I couldn’t find it. So I did complain about it. for a long time. I also drew inspiration from a lot of places in LA. I wanted a place like Cafe Gratitude or Real Food Daily. I wanted an Earth Cafe, something with a counterculture vibe and a fun, vibrant juice bar that people could gather around after a day of skiing. Everyone told me I was crazy, but I have this terrible habit that when people tell me I’m crazy and something won’t succeed, I think I should test it out. So that’s what I did. A few years later, I opened Spring Cafe and that was almost 15 years ago.
The Cookbook Philosophy
It feels like all of your lifetime experiences of cooking healthy and vegetarian food has bubbled up into your first cookbook, Healthy with a Side of Happy, which is coming out April 28th on Union Square and Co. What did you want to say with these plant-based recipes in a vegetarian-focused cookbook? I wanted to say a few things. I wanted to say, one, nobody has to be vegetarian. I eat a little bit of meat. The healthiest way to eat, no matter what fad comes and goes, is plenty of fruits, vegetables, nuts, beans, seeds, grains, loaded with fiber, loaded with nutrients. So I wanted people to know that you don’t have to only eat this way, but you should know how to cook this way. And I wanted to make it simple, accessible. I just wanted it to be full of joy, hence the title, Healthy with a Side of Happy. I wanted to say to people, this is the foundation for a healthy, happy, joyful life. And you don’t have to go crazy. These are the foods that I grew up eating. This is how we prepared them in a way that always felt nourishing and joyful to me. If I can do it, you can do it because I am not a trained chef. I am a home chef learned to cook by watching my mom and then experimenting from other people’s cookbooks. Love it. There’s so much out there. Wellness has become this crazy industry. Health has become this crazy industry. Plant-based food has become an industry. But if you just could have one Bible in your home to help you live a healthier, happier, cleaner life, this is what I would give you. I love that confidence and I love that conviction and I love that curation of, I know there’s a lot out there. I’ve lived that life both outside of nature and opening a business, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for cooking vegetarian food.
Rule #1: Make Vegetables the Star
Your very first rule is one that I agree with wholeheartedly because when I want something that is plant-based, it’s not because I’m missing meat. It’s because I want the best of what I can get out of the ground. What’s your rule number one? Forget the faux meat and make vegetables the star of the show. People who want vegetarian food, you’re not trying to make it meat. You’re not trying to serve the meat. It shouldn’t taste like meat. It should taste like vegetables. When I’m cooking for people and I want to make them this beautiful vegetarian dish or meal or dinner or lunch, I don’t try to make a sausage stuffed anything. No, thank you. I choose a vegetable, a beautiful squash, and I stuff it with wild rice, with veggies. I love to make a lentil or a tempeh bolognese. There’s a recipe for that in my book. It’s fun to take a twist on a classic meaty dish and make it with vegetables. Forget the fake meat. Make vegetables the star of the show because when we talk about eating a plant-based diet, let’s eat plants and show everyone what you can do with them. There is really no better way to convince someone to consider plant-based dishes than just relying on the flavor and the realness of the dish itself. Trying to tell someone, oh, I’ve made the best version of this, or oh, you don’t need that in your dish is a surefire way to turn them off, which ties directly into your rule number two.
Rule #2: Don’t Try to Convert Everyone
My rule number two is don’t try to convert everyone. Just focus on the joy of sharing a meal. The point of everything that I do in my work with the cafe, with my social media, and really my book is food is joy. Nourishment is joy. Coming together to share a meal I think is one of the most special things we can do together as humans. Forget trying to convert or convince anyone that your way is better or that they should be eating this way. And let the food speak for itself. Cooking a meal for your kids, your significant other, your friends, your community, and just coming together around a table is really a great act of love and service. Let the food that you put down really be infused with joy, with love, and let sharing that experience be the proof in the pudding.
Rule #3: Experiment with Cuisines and Flavors
Being able to create those new experiences and opening someone’s eyes to the possibility of this type of cooking does come with exploring different cultures and cuisines and flavors. If all you’ve ever had is broccoli with Braggs again and again over brown rice, which we’ve all enjoyed... A lot of that. I’ve eaten a lot of that. It can get really stale. It can really turn someone off. Your third rule talks about opening your pantry and your ingredients to a much larger world. What’s your rule number three? My rule number three is experiment with different cuisines and flavors. My kids eat the most every meal when we do Greek night, Indian night, Thai night. Mm-hmm. Do I get it all perfectly? No. Do I really try to honor the culture that I’ve chosen to represent in the food? Yes. Do I put Bragg’s in Indian food sometimes? Yes. I’m not going to lie. It’s popular for a reason. There’s this myth. You have to make the adult the spicy version and the kid the flavorless bland version. I’ve actually found that to be incredibly untrue. My children eat garlic, turmeric, ginger, spices from the time they start solids. And to me, that’s what gets them excited about it. The beauty of experimenting with another cuisine is most people really do think American food or meat and potatoes or fish and veggies or, oh, we’re going over. She’s going to make vegetarian food. What could she possibly make? Pasta. And when I put down a meal that’s really rooted in another tradition with flavors that people aren’t used to, that’s where the excitement comes from. And I think you can show people a lot, showcase veggies in a way, stepping a little bit outside of your comfort zone. There’s a vegetarian Indian meal that I had from a Tiffin woman who cooked out of her house from the South Bay 15 years ago that I still say, if I could eat like that all the time, I’d never have another piece of meat. Exactly.
Rule #4: Shop Seasonally and Locally
Part of what made her food so incredible was the freshness, was driven by what was in season, which I know is something that’s said a million times, but it’s hard to ignore it when things taste so good. That approach to shopping and what you put in these dishes is a fundamental rule number four. My rule number four, I have to give credit, is inspired by the wonderful chef and food writer, Melissa Clark. Legend. I read her cook this now. Nearly 20 years ago when I was living in the city, I’m starting to cook on my own. She talks about going to the farmer’s market every day of the year in New York. Mm. trudging there in the dead of winter, in the snow, buying what’s in season and making a meal from it. And that really stuck with me ever since I have visited the Union Square Farmers Market in New York every week. Wednesdays and Saturdays are my days. I go rain, sleet, snow, anything. I really try to find what’s in season. I love talking to the farmers that are growing my food. I find things that you wouldn’t normally or ever find in the traditional aisles of a grocery store. Really encouraging people to shop. locally and seasonally from their local market does so much for our food ecosystem. You get kohlrabi, you get baby bok choy, you get yum choy some, and suddenly it’s not only just broccoli with Braggs. Zilling bok choy, which is a recipe I have in my book, a variety of squash that you have never tried before that’s so tender and sweet and delicious, melts in your mouth while roasted. I just like to encourage people to be excited by something different and something new. Some people get really excited about going shoe shopping. I get really excited about going veggie shopping.
Rule #5: Make It Hearty
Having that passion that started with you wanting to open Spring Cafe in Aspen all these years later has really come together to help you shape the types of recipes that you’re sharing in your book and that you want to put out in the world and ties directly into your rule number five. My rule number five is make it hearty. Stews and soups are such a great way to highlight how satiating plant-based food can be because when I first started talking about an idea for Spring Cafe in Aspen, my coworkers, my friends, everyone was like, oh, No one wants to eat salad in Aspen. Everyone wants an elk chili or a burger. And I said, well, first of all, who said anything about just salad? I don’t want a salad right now. I want a coconut curry with veggies and chickpeas. I want enchiladas. I want a lasagna. I want a sweet potato white bean burger. I want a huge breakfast burrito. I just want to feel really good after I eat it. When I first opened spring in New York, what always... filled my cup the most was when we would get tables of a few guys who were on their lunch break from work and they would order the sweet potato white bean burger or the chickpea tuna pita in the early days when we opened it I would walk around and introduce myself to everyone and thank everyone for coming in and I always loved seeing a big group of guys lick their plates clean and I would start talking them and say, do you feel satisfied or is this your first time? And they’d say, we are obsessed with it. We love it. We come every day from work. We feel so good. Our partners are so excited. We’re eating healthy. We can go to the gym and we feel really great at the end of the day after work. It might be a more typical choice to choose Chipotle or another option, all of which are great options. But if you can really show people just how satisfying, satiating it can be, that’s really how you show people that you are what you eat. healthy with a side of happy. That’s the correlation between eating good and feeling good for me.
Closing
If people want to come to the cafe, if they want to see book events you’re doing, follow along with what you’re cooking and if the content you make, where can they go? They can find me and follow along on my Instagram at Spring by Sabrina. They can come visit one of the cafes in Aspen or New York City. The best way is my website, sabrinarudin.com or my Instagram, Spring by Sabrina. Congratulations. Excited for your first book to come out into the world. Thank you. It’s such a great podcast. Thank you for having me. Oh, thank you so much. Thank you for stopping by. Love to be here.
As a first-class traveler and a lover of adventure, Garrett’s rules are the best insider insights for anyone who wants to get the most out of going abroad. So let’s get into the rules.
Catching Up
Garrett, it is so good to see you. We’ve had meals together. We’ve had adventures together. And it’s nice to sit down and chat together once again.
It has been too long, my friend. It has been too long. And the last time we saw each other was under circumstances that were a little heavy. So it’s nice to have a little sunshine and chat today.
Indeed. We think of our boy every day. Every day.
Why Travel Matters
For as long as I’ve known you, you have been gallivanting across the globe. What do you love about getting out into the world?
There’s always a new horizon, a new experience. People say to me, how do you get to have this super cool life? And it really is because I know people like yourself. I was watching recently the Star Wars series Endor, and there’s the character, and there’s a code that he’s supposed to give to somebody he’s meeting for a rendezvous. I have friends everywhere.
The booze, food, music mafia that runs worldwide. You can just basically whisper to somebody, I have friends everywhere. And you do. I saw someone asking for Neil’s list in Mexico City yesterday. And the next slide a minute later was, I got it. Don’t worry about it. I’m good. And it keeps getting updated. I think it’s 70 pages now or something. It’s very dense.
Given all your travels and your years at it, was there a moment when you felt like you had gotten mastery of how you like to see the world?
I still have a lot of places that I want to see, but last time I re-upped my global entry, they asked you to name all the countries that you have been in in the last five years. And it turned out that it was 28 or 29, depending upon whether or not you considered the Vatican to be a country.
At a certain point, you’re like, yeah, I know exactly how this is going. I’m James Bond in this situation and I have a way that I do this.
On the other side of that coin, some people might see pro travelers and be intimidated. What do you say to the people who might be afraid to hit the road because they’re not doing it, quote, the right way?
First of all, you will never be sorry about hitting the road to any place cool, especially if there’s people there that you know. I’ve seen so many people who were intimidated, like, oh my God, I’m going to India. And when they got back, they were like, that was the coolest thing I ever did in my entire life.
I left my house. Nothing new is going to happen here. People are like, oh, how can you live in New York? Well, I live in New York because I love living here, partially because I can leave it. That is a luxury for sure, but it’s a luxury that I get to enjoy. So I feel like I’ve earned it.
You’ve definitely earned it, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for great traveling.
Rule #1: Get Dressed
Now, your first two rules talk about the importance of preparing for your trip, starting with the travel itself. What’s your rule number one?
My rule number one is get dressed. I did a thing for New York Magazine for secret strategists on how I’m dressing for an airplane. I personally am never going to feel good if I look like a slob.
You don’t have to get dressed up. It’s not like the 40s, but you should look good. And looking good is actually part of how you bond with the folks who are actually operating the airplane. And they’re going to be a lot nicer to you.
If you’re going to wear sweatpants, go get really good ones. Make sure that they move easily, that whatever you’re wearing is breathable. Bring a pair of slippers. Don’t have your feet messed up in shoes for an eight hour flight. Thermal socks are good for being on the plane with the slippers.
Get dressed, look good, make yourself comfortable.
Rule #2: Uncattle Yourself
Your next rule deals with setting yourself up with some hospitality on your flight. What’s your rule number two?
If you learn only one thing from this podcast, when you’re heading for an airplane, uncattle yourself. Unless you’re in business class or you’re in first class, you will be treated as cattle. They are not making any money on you. They don’t care about you. You must care for yourself.
Rule number one of uncattling yourself is bring your own napkins. Cloth napkins. There’s a reason why in business class and first class, the first thing they do to let you know that you’re being taken care of is they put that big white cloth napkin in front of you. You can do that for yourself, and it makes all the difference in the world.
Bring your own food. You could have a spectacular sandwich. If I’m coming back from France, I go to the charcuterie shop and I’ve got a pâté, small packets of mayonnaise. Very important. I’m going to be good.
Personally, I carry my own cocktails. 100 milliliter spray bottle. Looks like hair tonic. Keep it in the quart baggie. Never been caught. When they go by, I’m like, could I just have a glass of ice? And they’re like, here you go, sir. And as soon as they’re past me, I’m like, dook, dook, dook, dook, dook. And everybody looks up and I’m like, yeah, that’s a cask strength old fashioned. Nothing like a personal tipple at 30,000 feet.
Rule #3: Reside in Proximity
Once you’ve had a great adventure on a plane, knowing where you’re going and where you’re staying is really important. What’s your rule number three?
Rule number three, reside in proximity. Sometimes residing in proximity means you want to be close to the beach. People are like, oh, where do you stay in Paris?
The way I decide has to do with the things that I have to do, where are the metro lines coming in. But the number one way, I look at the last three years of the best baguette in Paris competition. And wherever I get my Airbnb or whatever is going to be within a five minute walk or less of one of the top three winners.
That is the thing that matters to me. You can walk out your front door, you can have a fresh, great baguette, and now you’re golden.
Rule #4: Understand the Markets
Understanding the neighborhood is really important, especially if you want to travel like a local, which includes shopping.
If I want to understand a new country, most parts of the world, there’s some kind of old food market. I want to know what the old food market looks like. I want to know what the flea markets are like. And I also want to go to the supermarket.
When you go to the old market and then you look at the supermarket, you will understand so much of how people in this country spend their time, how they spend their money and what they value.
A good example is France. Some of the best markets in the world, but the supermarkets, they’ve got a lot of frozen food. You have a better understanding of what’s being projected to you, but then what’s actually going on.
When you go to a flea market, you understand things about the past and present of the country. Who’s out there selling things? Are they all from another country? If you go to Belgium, for example, most of the people selling at the flea market will be from Africa. This will speak to a colonial past.
If you go to a flea market in Norway, what you will see is the fact that Norway is now rich but used to be poor. Before they found oil in the 50s or 60s, they were a poor country. So Norwegian antiques, they’re like Soviet antiques.
When you see that stuff, it gives you a deeper understanding of what’s going on in the country. It doesn’t matter where you go. You see what people value.
I go to Japan and I buy really crazy cool old indigo fabric for almost nothing because these things, which are seriously handmade and beautiful, are not really being valued by modern Japanese people.
A lot of these flea markets are at temples. People are not getting up early to go out there. And I’m that guy. I’m going to Japan, I’m like, what are the flea markets that are going to be happening within the time that I’m going to be here? The biggest one at the Oi race course, they have 700 dealers. It’s incredible.
I have made this mistake more than once, not going with the extra empty suitcase. And I’ve had to buy an extra empty suitcase, which thankfully you can also buy at the flea market.
Rule #5: Go Back
Your fifth and final rule deals with something I struggle with all the time when choosing where to travel. How do you justify going back to the places you love again and again?
There is a reason why, in my case, Japan, France, Spain, Italy. I’ve gone to the same town in Italy for at least a week every summer for 25 years.
The way I justify it is that I can go up a mountain, 20 minutes out of Portofino, walk into a restaurant, and everyone comes out of the kitchen to kiss me. You might as well be home. What else could you possibly want?
It’s a matter of balance. You know where I haven’t been, and I hate to admit this, I have never been to Mexico City. People tell me that I’m out of my mind, like it’s going to be my favorite place in the world. I will go to Mexico City this year. I have Niels’ List, but I have not experienced Niels’ List.
I go to Mexico every year, but I go to the beach. I’m not regretting the beach. The beach was really, really nice. There were palm trees over my head for two weeks. I read four books. I regret nothing.
Closing
Garrett, thank you so much for sharing all of your tips about world travel. I’m going to be using the baguette method moving forward.
If people want to follow along with your adventures or see what you’re working on at Brooklyn Brewery, how can they see what you’re up to?
So I’m at iGarrettOliver. One of these days I will discover who, like a million years ago, got Garrett Oliver because there aren’t that many of us in the world.
Garrett, thank you so much. Looking forward to sharing a drink and a bite with you sometime soon. Let’s make it happen.
Growing up in a family restaurant and always being of service to others, of always being in the industry of sharing food as a way of a language of love, seeing that right since the moment I could remember, it just adapted me to giving that back to the community, giving that back to our clients, giving that back to just anyone I come across, using food as a love language, which is part of who I am.
On Latin Cuisine & Cultural Influence
It’s been so amazing to see Latin culture and cuisine take center stage, especially in America over the last few years. Why do you think that is happening right now?
I think because in Latin American culture, we’re just taught to share. We don’t mind not only sharing our dishes, but mixing it with everyone else’s dishes. So for example, here in Miami, you could go to a restaurant. It’s a fusion between Peruvian food and Asian food, Mexican and Japanese. We’ve just learned that not only can we share our food and our recipes and our culture and our history, but we can mix it with yours and we could tell two stories at once. And it’s like this big party of celebration of everyone’s culture.
The Cookbook & Storytelling Through Food
You shared a lot of these stories in your cookbook, One with the Kitchen, which is celebrating its fifth birthday with so many recipes and so many stories in your life and career. How did you select the ones you wanted to put on the pages?
It was a bit hard because first of all, I’m always hungry since it was food nonstop. Most importantly, I was just tapping into memories, memories that I had from childhood, memories I had from family celebrations, special moments. In our culture, every important moment is attached to food. I just went back there and like, okay, and how could I add a twist to this? Memory, twist, add to the book. Memory, twist, add to the book. And I just put some of my favorite recipes.
Aside from them having a story, I think I also wanted to include unity in there. The dish that I use in the cover of the book is a pavlova. It shows the story of what food is supposed to do. Pavlova is very popular in Peruvian culture. Many don’t know that it originated in Australia. And now everyone here, at least in Miami, enjoys pavlova. And I think I can speak for many parts of the USA or even outside, because when I recently went to Paris and London, every other restaurant had a pavlova on their menu. It’s just done beautifully. That’s what food is supposed to do. It’s supposed to just be shared and let people put their little spin on it.
The Five Rules
Being able to connect with cultures and people and countries through food is one of the reasons why I love this world so much, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for using food as identity. A lot of the times people aren’t going to be able to travel to someone’s country of origin. They’re going to meet them at the restaurant. They’re going to meet them at a home. They’re going to find their food where they are.
But being able to cook dishes that are intrinsically linked to who you are is a big part of your rule number one.
Rule #1: Cook Where You Come From
Rule number one is cook where you come from. Your story and your dish is supposed to say a little bit about where you come from, your culture, your technique, what drives you as a chef or as a cook. Many people, sometimes they get very fancy and they forget to put the most important part to the dish, which is you, which is what makes you unique and being in this world.
Whenever I have the chance to incorporate myself into a recipe, I always make sure that there is extra, especially when I’m serving at home. It doesn’t mean 10 ribeyes or eight lobsters. It just sometimes can mean a bigger salad, more pizza, and it’s a fundamental part of your rule number two.
Rule #2: Success Tastes Better When It’s Shared
Rule number two is success stays better when it’s shared. As a chef, if you have a talent or as a cook, share it with others. Share it with your family. Use this moment to bring people together. Share it with your staff. I go to the local culinary school every now and then, and I’ll teach them a class or two just because we’ve invested so much into our time, into our story, into our history. Might as well share that.
Mm-hmm. There’s a special feeling when you share your knowledge, when you share what drives you with others. Not only are you placing seeds of inspiration towards others, you’re doing the most fundamental thing you could do as a human being. When you share so much of yourself.
Rule #3: Take Care of Your Body Like It’s Part of the Recipe
Catering, being on TV, cooking for the community, it is easy to get burnt out and run down. Then you can’t provide for anyone. Your third rule talks about adding this to the recipe to make sure that you can keep going forward.
The third rule is something I learned the hard way when I was already burnt out. So it says, take care of your body like it’s part of the recipe. It’s the most important ingredient of the recipe. I feel that as a man and as a chef, we’re so trained to go, go, go. You’re not tired. Of course.
Little by little, I learned the importance of boundaries within yourself. What is my day off? What am I going to do on my day off? Am I going to be doing scheduling when I’m sitting in a sofa? No, you’re going to mentally just not do anything. You’re going to give this time to yourself. You’re going to use this time to rest and rest mentally, rest physically, because if not, eventually it adds up and it takes a toll on you.
Once you get into that little dark pothole, it’s very difficult to get out of it. And it’s also a long process. Take care of yourself. And I know it sounds cliche and repetitive. It wasn’t until it recently happened to me, it just taught me, you’re like a car. If you don’t take care of your car, you don’t put the water, the oil, and you don’t put gas, and eventually you’re gonna break. I could tell you that because I’ve burned three cars in my life, so.
Rule #4: Elevate Your Everyday Life
A big part of burnout can be chasing big moments, red carpets, celebrity, huge fancy dinners, looking forward to the moments that are coming up and not enjoying what’s right in front of you. By practicing your fourth rule, you can elevate your life every single day. What’s your rule number four?
My rule number four is elevate your everyday life. Find beauty in those random moments. For example, I like going on long walks and sometimes it’s on a gray day. Put your favorite music, light up a candle. When you go to a restaurant, say yes to the wine pairing. It’s just these little tokens of love and appreciation that you may give to yourself or to whoever’s around you to just remind yourself that it’s not always about the big moments. It’s also about what you do in the small moments that add to your big moments later on.
Rule #5: Trust the Process
Those big moments and those small moments do stack up over a lifetime in a career. It’s so hard to predict where you’re going to go when you start. Your fifth and final rule talks about how to navigate that long and winding road to when you finally found yourself at the end of it. What’s your rule number five?
My rule number five is trust the process. Immediately, my mind takes me back to someone in my team that’s been working with me for eight years. I always would go up to her and I’d be like, do you think that all of these things that I’ve been doing will one day add up? And she’s like, of course, they’re going to add up.
So now that I can look back at to my TV career, nine years, I just celebrated 100,000 subscribers on YouTube. Congratulations. The first platform where I started was on YouTube because I said, if there’s no platform for me, I’m going to create my own. Last week when I was celebrating that, I had a little moment to myself and I’m like, wow, all these little moments do add up. I started with a set of seven videos. I now have 207 videos.
The key... And this was my hard part is patience and timing. Patience. You have to be patient with the process. Patient doesn’t mean I’m going to sit my ass here and just wait for things to come. No, that means I’m trusting the process. I’m putting in the work. I’m getting the classes. I’m getting the lessons. I’m showing up to the big interviews, to the small interviews, to the big moments, to the small moments. I’m putting in my extra cooking techniques and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All of these things add up.
Where to Follow Chris
Chris, I think it’s definitely added up for you. If people want to follow along with what you’re doing, reach out for you to cook for them, just see what you’re up to in your day-to-day community and culinary life. How can they follow? Where can they get involved?
Google, Instagram, everywhere, Chef Chris Valdes, and you’ll see everything I’ve done there. And I invite everyone, especially for just foodies. I speak the universal love language of just wanting to share food for the sake of sharing food because it just makes me happy and hungry. And those are two things that everyone should be, happy and hungry. And going to the gym.
Closing
Chris, thank you so much. And next time in Miami, I’m going to swing by and grab a bite of food from you.
Let’s do it. And I’ll take you to some of my favorite restaurants and we can grab a mojito while we’re at it.
Kat, it’s so good to see you. I believe the last time I was with you in the room, I was drinking a mint julep watching horses run the derby.
Thanks for taking time to sit down and chat about the fire rules.
Truly my pleasure. And I think I could use a julep, some burgoo, or a slush right now.
That sounds very delicious.
Being the executive features editor of Food & Wine and host of the Tinfoil Swans, when going out to dinner, do you bring a professional criteria with you at all times?
Oh, hell no. It can become that busman’s holiday kind of thing. So much of what I edit and write about and care about is not about the food. Sure. It’s extremely people-centric. Unless I am on a particular mission, I’m there to be happy in a restaurant. Moreover, I’m happy about who I’m with. I’m not the person they deploy to go out to restaurants. I am lucky enough that I get to go out and just—
The idea of just being at dinner, especially when it’s your profession, doesn’t always happen.
No.
How do you deal with that weight of having to eat out, especially when you’re scouting for best new restaurants when all you want to do is be eating tuna fish and crackers at home?
I don’t go out very often. I’m such an ambivert that it takes a lot to get me out. Recently, I had almost a year after my husband had a heart attack, we really couldn’t go out to restaurants that much. It really reset why and how I go out to restaurants because we have to live within a certain amount of constraints.
When I go, I go with tremendous intent for joy.
I love that.
Because I don’t often have to do it on the job, I can get things for my own pleasure. I just want to be open. I want to have a great time. Leaving the house is really difficult for me, sometimes slightly gore phobic. But once I bust out the door, I’m just thrilled I’m out there and I want to make the most of it that I possibly can.
Memorable Meals
It being wintertime and heading into a cozy restaurant in New York City, there are few greater pleasures in life. And I know that you have lived a life of memorable meals and dinners. Looking back on them, which ones stand out the most?
Fun thing, I just had the greatest restaurant meal of my life.
Oh, well, then this should be easy.
Causa in Washington DC. Have you been?
Not yet, but a boy can dream from across the country.
Carlos Delgado is just making absolute magic there. I got to town early. I decided to take myself out to dinner. Incredible. A lot of my friends are chefs. It’s not like they can go out on a Friday night super easily. So I was like, you know what, I’ve been hearing about this place, I’m gonna go.
Sat down at the counter. From bite one, it’s a Peruvian tasting menu. Let’s go. It’s a tour of Peru and all the different regions of it. And I’m sitting there and I’m having this reconstructed oyster with Leche de Tigre. And I’m listening to Gangster’s Paradise. I’m drinking this absolute banger of a non-out cocktail that was based in the ferments that they’re making with kombucha.
I’m just zenning out because I don’t have to think about anybody else’s pleasure but my own because I’m just by myself. Rare. The whole thing is being driven by somebody’s vision. The hospitality is absolutely incredible. Everybody’s on those headsets so it feels like pluribus I am carol and they are there for my pleasure.
There could be worse things on a Friday night in DC.
When I experience really good food or art or music or anything like that, I get this full body sensation.
I understand that.
Tasting menus, controversial or whatever. I think about the shock and awe that has gone into some of them that have been my favorite restaurant meals ever.
Yeah.
I feel really incredibly lucky. They’re so concentrated. They’re so thoughtful. With Carlos, he’s got such a point of view. He’s a nerd about this stuff. I love it.
Being able to be so intentional and so excited about going out to dinner after all these years is very inspiring, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for staying present and delighted at dinner.
The Five Rules
Rule 1 — There Is No Better Table Than the One You’re At
We live in a world where new restaurants open up all the time in a way that when you’re keeping score or track of it, it could be overwhelming. Your rule number one talks about shifting that mindset and waiting for the right moment to go to a place. What’s your first rule?
I am lucky enough that when I do have that intentionality and go out to dinner with people, I end up absolutely convinced there is no better place, no better table in the entire world than the one I’m at right then.
I love that.
It happens a lot of times at friends’ houses. It happens at restaurants. And I think about everything that crosses my feed all the time. This highly curated, all these restaurants, all these experiences, all these fancy kinds of things we can do.
And I was like, no, this is exactly where I want to be. There’s nowhere better in the universe right now.
And that’s not just me hyping myself up, even though things I love, I love very, very intensely. It’s important that I get to that state and that just keeps me at the table. Why not be happy with what I have right there?
I share that same passion. When I love something, I love it so much and I want to tell people all about it. Or if I enjoy dining at someone’s house, I’m always asking when can we get together again, when can we do it again.
Yes.
And I know you’re supposed to play it cool, but that’s never been part of my personality, which ties directly into your rule number two.
Rule 2 — Wear Your Heart on Your Sleeve
Wear your heart on your sleeve.
Is there any other way to do it?
I dated people who use that as currency. They wouldn’t say I love you. They wouldn’t say the nice thing. No, thanks. No, you don’t do that.
I am given to quite often if I’m feeling that thing about no more FOMO and thinking this is the best place I could be in the world. I say it out loud.
Yeah.
Because why the hell not? Why not say to the people at the table, I’m so glad you’re here with me and that we get to experience this together.
I say it to the wait staff.
I was at EMP some years back. I was having a ball. Our server was like, you’ve gone out of your way to say what a great time you’re having. Are you worried that I think you’re not?
It’s like, hey, I love that we’ve established this dialogue here. I want you to know you’re doing a great job here.
Say you love the thing. Say it’s delicious.
I’d rather be warm than cool any day of the week.
Rule 3 — Take a Mental Snapshot
Once you’ve gotten to the place that you want to be and you’ve realized that there’s no better seat in the room, the second part of that equation of really enjoying yourself is staying present.
There’s no better way to get out of the moment than reaching to your pocket and pulling out that phone.
No. No.
And it’s tough because a lot of times content is currency. If I don’t have the evidence, did I really go?
Your rule number three talks about how to avoid reaching for your phone when a plate hits the table.
Take a mental snapshot.
Because of professional hazard, I do have to whip out my phone sometimes and take a quick picture, but it’s more documentation.
Of course.
This actually goes back to there was a book that I read as I was getting married called The Conscious Bride. This would have been 20 years ago.
It’s about stopping for a second and taking a snapshot with all of your senses about everything that’s going on around you.
You don’t even have to let anybody know you’re doing this.
Take that same thing you do with your phone and capture all of that and deliberately tell yourself, I’m going to remember this. How I feel. What are the sensations I’m having right now? What do things taste like? Who am I with?
Consciously do that and lock it in. Put that on your reel in your head.
You have to do it with intent so you can just come back to those because I definitely have those moments then when I’m really depleted, depressed, lonely, whatever it happens to be. And I go back into that, getting to experience it all over again.
It’s just a really fun way to be.
Rule 4 — Don’t Feel Obligated to Post
That idea of having these personal moments for yourself is really important because it does keep you wanting to go back out into the world to have dinners and try new things.
That being said, sometimes you do take those photos, but that doesn’t mean you have to share them right away, which ties directly into your rule number four.
Don’t post.
I should maybe amend that. Don’t feel obligated to post right then.
Yes.
You’re still you. You still had the experience. You still did the thing. It’s not pics or it didn’t happen.
Who are you trying to prove anything to?
If you want to share it because you’re hyped on it and you want other people to have that joy as much, that’s beautiful. If you want to give a bump to the restaurant after you have left, of course.
For so long, there’s been that feeling of obligation.
The really great meals that I have and the best times where I’m connecting with people over this are times when I’m not pulling my phone out at all.
I forget to.
And it gets to the end of the meal and maybe I’m with somebody. Before we recorded, we were talking about Yassi Salik. Realize we had gotten to the end of the meal, had not taken a picture together.
And that was because I was just so caught up in the joy of her presence, of the food, of the experience that we were having, where I just plain old forgot.
And it was so freeing.
The second I pull out my phone, it’s this Pandora’s box. I get too caught up in it. I doom scroll.
But, you know, some things can just be for you.
And that’s totally fine.
Rule 5 — Text When You Get Home
This idea of doing things for yourself and not having to prove you’re out in the world really is a lost art.
Yeah.
You mentioned the idea of really understanding that the people you’re with, the company you’re keeping at the table is exactly who you want to be with is a major part of your fifth and final rule.
You should text on the way home and say you had a great time.
Maybe it’s because I’m older. Maybe it’s because I haven’t had to date for a long time. I don’t care. Double text. I don’t care.
Wear your heart on your sleeve because you never know when you’re going to get the chance to say that thing again.
Be a sloppy, messy heart of a person.
Let people know you had a great time with them and that you want to do it again.
If I don’t text in, I’ll feel silly for having waited too long. And then it’ll be like a month or a year that I don’t respond because I’m embarrassed that I’ve waited so long.
But just send the text.
I’ve texted on the group thread while waiting in ballet.
Oh, hell yeah.
I’m sorry if my crime is that I told you I loved you too often.
Oh, screw me.
And that we had a great time at dinner again. And let’s find another date.
Sorry. My bad.
Where to Find Kat
Kat, appreciate you wearing your heart on your sleeve and sharing it with everyone.
If they want to read what you’re writing, if they want to listen to the podcast, or just see when you do go out to eat and you do post, which I’m sure has to hit a very high threshold, how can they follow you and see what you’re up to?
On Instagram, it’s Kat Kinsman. Same on threads. On foodandwine.com. I’m pretty easy to find on there.
The podcast, which is coming back at the end of March, is Tinfoil Swans, available anywhere you get your podcasts.
Perfect timing. Look at us.
Kat, so great to see you. And hopefully we can have a meal on or off the grid sometime soon.
I’m going to text you in five minutes and tell you what a great time I had right here.
He shares some amazing insider stories about making music, the different approach to recording from his two bands, and we share a few laughs about what really goes into making music that you like.
So let’s get into the rules.
Getting Started
Al, it is always a pleasure when we have the chance to make time and chat with each other. Thanks for coming to me live from the studio.
You’re very, very welcome. Yeah, I’m sitting in front of my upright piano. Really bringing class to the show. It’s all I can do to not start playing some jazzy chords in front of you, so you have to appreciate my restraint.
I also appreciate that you’ve been making music almost your entire life. Do you remember the moment when you first made something that you actually liked?
Yeah, I was playing piano from when I was four or five years old, and I definitely remember hammering out some stuff on the piano that I enjoyed going back to, really raucous, hammering, childlike piano music.
I love it. In terms of actual songs that I can remember... I fall out of love with things that I’ve made very, very quickly, I think. When you’re actually making something, the moment of creation is so emphatically all-encompassing and scintillating, and then leave it 20 minutes like, oh my god, now I’ve got to do some actual work to put this together. It just sucks all the joy out of it again. It’s something that I’m battling with every day.
You’ve been lucky enough to also record and create music and go through that process all over the world. Is there something you’re looking for in a space or an environment to be creative? Or is it different vibe for different project?
Making my own studio was an answer to that very question. There was lots of places that I’ve been to that were very close to what my ideal recording space would be.
Obviously, DFA was a huge thing for me when I first came to New York City. Philippe Zadar’s studio in Paris, which is called Motorbass, was a very, very inspiring space. There’s another amazing studio that belongs to the keyboard player in Jamiroquai called Angelic, which is a country retreat studio on a farm. Those kind of places have been on my mind.
Being able to see all these different studios and knowing what worked and didn’t work, I have to imagine fed into what went into building Relax and Enjoy, which is the studio that you built with James. Why was it so important for you to create a space for other musicians to make music?
There is an indulgent thing that we do in Hot Chip and in LCD, which is basically write music in a studio. A lot of bands, they will have to do some kind of writing elsewhere in their bedrooms or like the way that Hot Chip used to do.
The space can be very inspiring for making music if you have the time to allow the instruments to show you where to go. We’ll just go to a synthesizer that we’ve just bought or we’re in another studio that has something that we’ve never seen before and just by the act of trying out that instrument learning how it works you will inevitably write a song through that process because it’s just this voyage of discovery with the instrument brings up stuff that you end up recording and can be the kind of seed of an idea.
When people come in to this place that’s one of the things that we want for them especially younger kids that maybe only have ever seen some of this stuff as plugins and software versions or whatever they’re like oh my god you’ve got a real csa team it’s like oh yeah here it is i
I love that.
So immediately they get their hands on it and start using it in a way that we would never have imagined. And that’s actually inspiring to us. And then the whole thing feeds into itself. Everything’s turned on. Everything’s able to be recorded at any time. It’s supposed to be a little playground.
Creating that playground, having all the toys and tools and the actual approach of making music that you enjoy and have a good track record of making is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for making music you like.
Rule One: Make What You Like
The very first rule...
It’s so simple, but people, myself included, always seem to ignore it when they’re getting into the creative process. What’s your rule number one?
This rule was something that I actually came up with talking to Nick Millhiser from LCD because he’s also a producer and we were just talking about working with other bands. I can tell that they’re trying to get somewhere to something and there’s a level of frustration and
The rule is anyway, make what you like. Try to remember what is it that you’re making that is in any way similar to something that you actually like.
People come in here, they always want to add stuff. And I was like, OK, tell me anything that you like that sounds like this.
Yeah.
And I will happily pursue this way of working because people come in with their influences like I want it to sound like Prince or I want it to sound like a can or whatever. What you’re making sounds nothing like that.
Take that little step back.
I was working with somebody the other day, the drums started to sound like breakbeat or something like some kind of trip hop thing. I was like, guys, I know that you don’t like this music. Why are we doing that? Why are we here?
It’s a question that really stops people and makes them reconsider in a slightly less confrontational way than maybe I’ve just described.
Rule Two: Stick to a Vision
Part of your guide as a producer and as someone who’s been through the creative process before is showing people how to keep their perspective and not get distracted by trends or things that they might want in the moment, but won’t last in a long time, which makes up a big part of rule number two.
Stick to a vision of popular art as a generosity of effects on a simple frame.
So that’s a quotation from Clive James. He was actually talking about Louis Armstrong, but that quotation is about Big Spiderbeck, who was very beloved of Louis Armstrong and him talking about his style of playing quite austere style as opposed to slightly more florid playing from louis armstrong.
It just really got me thinking about that in terms of music but also in terms of art in general specifically he describes it as being popular art so i’m not really necessarily talking about the deepest kind of art sure this idea that you have
And in elaborate frame, like the pop song, this contained little space in which to put your idea across.
Yes.
And then within that, you get to do all of your special effects.
That has really stood with me as a framework for what all of this stuff is. You’re not trying to get too complicated. You’re not trying to change things. this mechanism around your work you’re just trying to give something to someone again that word generosity within there I thought was really important because it’s this idea of no this is something to be enjoyed something where I’m trying to give something to the people that are listening to me I had that as a phrase that was always in the back of my head when I was making things
Like verse chorus verse as i’ve heard it sung before.
Yeah yeah yeah exactly.
Rule Three: Listen, Don’t Change
A lot of times when i listen to the art of making music you’ll hear with some of the most famous songs is that it wrote itself in 10 minutes it just came to me in a dream and it was done.
Yeah.
Being able to pull something from the ether and then sit back and just let it be yeah is a fundamental of your rule number three.
Rule three, listen, don’t change.
This is something that I learned for sure from James Murphy. Also, I believe that he himself learned from Marcus Lampkin, whose artist’s name is S**t Robot.
Basically, hardship. Everybody goes into a room. Everyone’s playing all the time. Just this absolute deluge of great ideas.
I go into the studio with James and we will sit around for the whole day and work on the sound of a woodblock.
Of course. I believe it.
Just these two different ways of working. But I really recently have been feeling as though the correct way to work is to work on that ratio, work on the ratio of listening to versus adding. And you should be doing 10 times more listening than you are making changes or adding stuff.
And when I was with Marcus Lampkin, he actually does this more than James. He’ll just sit there, he’ll listen and listen and listen and listen. And then he’ll be like, we need to do this thing to this song. And it’s like, oh my God, dude, you nailed it. Cracked it.
Yeah.
And sometimes something is just fine as it is. And you’ve got to have that strength to just leave it as it is.
The other very instructive story that I had with regard to this was Pete Shelley working with Martin Russian. He just left the Buzzcocks on his first solo thing that he did. And he had this song, Homosapien. You know this song?
Mm-hmm.
He basically had what he called the demo of that song and he brought it to Martin Russian. And Martin Russian took it to the studio and he played it. And he had Pete Shelley with him there and he’s like, I just need to listen to it again.
And he played it again. And then he played it 20 times in a row. And then he just said, yeah, that’s fine. You should just release it just like that.
I love that. That is just such a cool story because it’s this godlike producer and he’s like, no, I don’t want to touch this. This is great. And it was a massive hit, you know.
There’s so many times that little voice in his head is like, you’ve got to do something, but actually you don’t always.
Rule Four: Be Self-Sufficient
You can go to another level by being able to work on your own music, produce your own projects, and be able to have the confidence within yourself to know that when you go out on the road or play a show or build your own studio, you can really blow other people out of the water, which is a big part of your rule number four.
Be ambitious enough to be self-sufficient and be self-sufficient enough to make other people scared.
With LCD, we would try and turn up to places with everything. There was nothing that we relied upon other people for. Even when we didn’t have the level of crew that we had, there was enough knowledge within that group of people that we could do anything that needed to be done and fix any problem in audio, deal with keyboard. People deal with the promoters, do all that kind of stuff.
You’ve got to know that there’s going to be a time after that, and that comes down to your ambition, to know that it won’t last forever. But in the meantime, you’ve got to actually do it.
Yeah. No one’s going to do it for you.
And if you don’t do it, then you will not be afforded any respect.
If you actually can go above that and be so self-sufficient that everyone’s like, oh, whoa, you guys actually know more than us.
So...
And then that’s when people get, I mean, scared is kind of the wrong word, but it’s having that level of respect that borders on reverence.
I think that’s a lot to do with James’s own personal aura. And also just because he genuinely is the most savant level engineer that I’ve ever encountered.
Rule Five: Contrarianism Can Be Your Savior
Being self-sufficient. Having that ambition, sticking to a vision of making what you really want to make, really bubbles up to creating work that you actually believe in.
And your fifth and final rule talks about the importance of sticking to your guns, especially when you’re making something that the mainstream might not like.
What’s your rule number five?
If in doubt, turn on the herter. Contrarianism can be your savior.
Sometimes things just go wrong. Sometimes people are just not on your side and you’re playing to the wrong people.
In that situation, there will be a very strong instinct that you have to do whatever it is you think those people might like, but don’t do that.
The thing to do in that situation is find the thing that you enjoy doing that they won’t. Otherwise, you’re just on a hiding to nothing.
Don’t try and second guess your audience, I think is the deeper part of what that is.
If there’s something that you enjoy, even if that thing is busting out incredibly piercing knife-like white noise at people get after it then go for that you’re guaranteed to make at least yourself happy whatever else you do you’re not guaranteed to make them happy you know.
Alexis is amazing at that he’ll just happily just play the most intimate music against the people that are just so shouting over him and he just continued to do that has this just level of belief that I absolutely love and it’s not something that I have personally but it’s something that I in a weird way admire and want to have for myself a little bit more so that’s why I wanted to make it part of the rules.
Closing
Al, I appreciate your rules and all the music that you have shared with the world. I know that you’re hitting the road this year.
We are on the road with LCD. We’re going to be touring America. Have a look and see if we’re playing anywhere near you.
Looking forward to having you back in LA. It was great to see you last time and can’t wait to hear some of this music that you like so much once again.
No problem. It’s my pleasure talking to you, Darin. Thanks for talking to me.
It’s a really great conversation for anyone looking for insights about how to travel with intention and how if you have a busy schedule to make getting away matter the most. So let’s get into the rules.
Sitting Down in Austin
Fermín, always so good to see you. Always a pleasure when we get some time to chat. Thank you for sitting down for the show.
Thanks for having me right back at you. Always a pleasure to get to chat a little bit with each other.
Whenever I’ve come to Austin, I’ve had such a great time traveling around, hanging out, eating with you, getting to see the city. And there really is this ideal of what it’s like to travel like a chef or be inside the restaurant world because you have all these access to the hidden gems. How much have you found that to be true in your travels?
It’s super true because that’s the number one reason why I travel. I travel to places that I want to eat. I’m also very lucky to be in a place where I get to do that. When I get a little bit of brain farts of ideas of what to do next, that is one of my favorite ways to do is get out of my own head, see what other people in other states are doing, and then come back and get right after it.
There is that idea of traveling for inspiration. You’ve gone out and you’ve had so many great meals. When do you realize when something’s gone from a really great bite to something that’s inspired you to create something in your own kitchen?
Man, I have a few of those. That’s what I really like to mimic at the restaurant. Recreate what I felt, not what I tasted. A lot of the food that you see in the restaurants, one of those dishes most well-known, este is Camarones El Ricas, which are named after a seafood restaurant in Monterrey. which is also a landlocked place, but they also enjoy Maniskas just like we do here in Austin. I enjoyed it so much that I wanted to make my own version of it and not hide behind, oh, this is where I got it from. No, tell people, if you like this one, you’re going to like the ones in Monterey way better. Makes you want to go out there and be like, Like maybe I got to go to Monterey and check this place out, which is also exciting.
Making Time to Travel
Taking that time, giving yourself permission to go on these trips, you alone have three different businesses that you cook at and oversee. How do you give yourself permission to take time off to go travel? How would you apply that advice to someone who’s feeling they can’t find that space in their life to do the same?
The best way to look at those things is realize that you don’t need a lot to do much. I’m very lucky to have a team of people that allow me to take a step back from the restaurants and come back as long as I give them back that energy that they gave me by going away.
I love that. I’ve been doing this for a while. I used to also have this mentality. You’re going to have two days off. Most of the time they’re going to be back to back. How do you make the most out of that? I always love traveling. I don’t want to go to Philly and just do what all the touristy things do. I want to go to Philly and feel what is a normal Tuesday they’re like and pretend it’s just my day off in a different city.
That’s such a great approach and such a great way to look at traveling in a way that isn’t just hitting the well-known spots, but really going with intention, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for a proper 48-hour trip.
Rule #1: Take the Early Flight
As I have talked with people, I have learned that I travel differently than others. What I love about your first rule is that you and I share the same approach to getting up early and getting after it. What’s your rule number one?
Take the early flight. Yes. If you only have so many hours, you have to make the most of it. And the thing that’s going to be a little bit pity about that is you waking up a little bit early. I think we have bigger problems in life than that. And you should be very lucky to think that that is the only thing that you’re stressed about.
In Mexico, we have a saying, el sol sale para todos. The sun rises for everybody. It’s what you do with that day that makes you different than the rest. If you don’t know how to take a nap on a plane, I’m not saying that’s a personal problem, but get up, get to the airport, skip that coffee, get right in your seat, and go see the world.
A lot of times you can look at people’s posts on social media and it seems very effortless. We’re on the road. And I believe that it can be. Sometimes to get that easygoing, free-flowing mentality, when you hit the road, you need to go out with intention.
Rule #2: Have a Purpose
Rule number two, have a purpose. Everything you see in social media is not real. Agreed. They only show you the parts that are exciting for people to watch.
Having a purpose when you’re only going to be there for such a small amount of time, it’s key making it feel like you’re there for a reason rather than feeling a little naughty going for the spur of the moment, which is also fun.
I’m very driven by food, so I always have a purpose of, I want to go eat at this restaurant, or I want to check out this place out. But I’ve also started doing a little bit of those trips in regards to, I’m going to go to Vegas for 48 hours, watch a soccer game, and then make the other things work around that. It’s always important to have a purpose of why you’re going there, achieving it, and then the rest will just fall into place.
Having that other side of the coin with one side being the anchor and the other side being open is really important to let the unexpected happen and to find something that you may have not known was the purpose of your trip, but ultimately becomes the thing you remember the most.
Rule #3: Plan, But Don’t Over Plan Too Much
Plan, but don’t over plan too much. Leaving room for a little bit of flexibility is key. Remembering that you’re there for a certain amount of time and not for a week, it’s humbly impossible to do everything you would do in a week into two days.
have breakfast and that’s it don’t push it you don’t need to have three different breakfasts if anything that’s a good excuse for you to want to be able to come back to the place that you are just there for 48 hours
I think having those limitations knowing that you can’t hit everything is actually freeing in a lot of way. The same goes with being prepared for what you’re going to bring there. There are many times when I’ve gone for a short trip and I am embarrassed by having a full suitcase and a backpack. Paring down can actually free you up.
Rule #4: Pack the Day Before, Pack Light
Pack the day before, but it’s also important to pack light. I think the only thing you can actually overpack is underwear. How many times do we overpack underwear and feel like we’re going to s**t ourselves three times in the script? And guess what? It actually never happens, but better safe than sorry.
Having three different kinds of shoes for the 48 hours because you think you’re going to go to the gym and work out. After you do this a few times, you realize that you’re not going to do
It’s always better to have room in your luggage and fill it with things that are exciting that will remind you of the trip than to bring things on a luggage just to carry them around and bring back and be like, oh, I guess I didn’t even need that.
Having that room also allows you to bring back specialty ingredients, Mentos, other things that will be a constant tchotchke on your shelf and a touchstone for the time that you went away.
Rule #5: Disconnect
Your fifth and final rule talks about the importance of when you go away, really be away. Home will be home when you get there. Being present when you’re away is the real key to a 48-hour trip. What’s your rule number five?
Number five is disconnect. I do this for inspiration, but I also do this to be able to come back a better chef than I left for those two days and be the person my team needs me. That is super important when traveling. You travel for yourself.
I’ve always wanted to eat at Sahave. You have all these places that you say you always want to go. If you plan in advance, little bit sneaky in the internet, you can find really cheap ways to go to places and make things happen.
I went to Philly and it was also so amazing to be able to be present with my partner at the time to a city that I’d never been to. She had been there once. We were just walking around making stuff happen in between dinner. It was the most present I’ve been in a while and I really enjoyed it.
I love that. You didn’t travel to make content. All the people that go to shows and film them, how often are you actually seeing that video? The most important part about being in a trip like this, being present is more valuable than being like on social media. Remembering why you chose to do this trip, it’s always a nice reminder of how to be at the time and place that you’re in. It’s amazing and it’s definitely a gift that you can bring back to your life at home and to your kitchen.
Where to Follow Along
For me, if people want to come visit you at any of your three spots in Austin or see where you’re going out on the road when you take these 48 hour trips, how can they follow along with your adventures?
For the restaurants, they can follow along at Suerte ATX, Este ATX, and Bartotti. For my personal stuff, you can get a little behind the scenes of what we do in the kitchen, what I do outside of the kitchen, and every time I travel at Chief Nunez.
If I’m posting that I’m traveling in a place, it most likely already happened because according to my fifth rule, I was disconnecting being present at the place that I was at that time. You don’t want to be stuck in your DMs with people trying to get you to go to all these places.
Can’t wait to get back to Austin. Can’t wait to have another meal with you real soon. Thank you. Hope that sooner rather than later.
Maxine, it is so nice to meet you. Congratulations on your first book coming out early March, 2026.
Thank you so much, Darin. Excited to be here. Thanks so much for having me on.
Oh my God. My absolute pleasure.
Career Turning Point
The Layoff & The Leap
Three years ago, back in 2022, you were laid off, something that a lot of people are dealing with now, and started diving into culinary creation full-time. What gave you that confidence to get in the kitchen and then to also share what you were doing?
So I had actually been sharing content online for a couple of years when I had gotten laid off. I had built a modest following. I had always said that my goal eventually, like my dream was to be able to focus on maxi’s kitchen full-time but I was always too afraid to take the plunge and like quit my corporate job to do it. Of course when I got laid off obviously I was really upset that day it was like a gut punch crying completely shocked been there.
But then the afternoon of that day, I started to get this little internal pull or feeling of, hey, maybe this is my chance to chase my dream and focus on the cooking stuff full time. I told my husband, almost feeling embarrassed when I told him that that was what I was thinking. And he was really supportive.
The next day I woke up and I filmed three recipes and basically just started running as fast as I can chasing that dream. I’ve been doing it ever since.
From Passion to Profession
Realizing It Became a Career
From that day after, we’ll call that day one if you’d like.
Yeah.
Was there a moment when you realized that this passion of yours had become your profession?
It started when I was able to focus all of my time on cooking and creating content and sharing videos. My account started to gain momentum pretty quickly and I started seeing videos start to go viral and I felt like I had a lot of momentum that kept me going.
About two months into focusing on Maxi’s Kitchen full time, I started having managers reach out. If you’re not familiar with managers in the content creator space, they basically help you pitch you to brands, help with the monetization and some of the high level strategy of your business.
Of course.
It was a couple months in when I met a manager who I absolutely loved and had just this immediate feeling of, oh, I need to work with this person. And I feel like it was signing with her that made me realize, okay, wow, I think I’m actually doing this full time because now she’s going to help me build a business around the cooking stuff.
That’s so amazing to have that turning point work out for you. I don’t want to say relatively quickly because it’s years in the making overnight, as I’ve always found.
That’s such a good way to put it.
The Cookbook
Shaping the First Book
What’s so exciting is that you’ve been able to build this organically, you focus it on full time, and now you have your first cookbook coming out in March of 2026, Maxi’s Kitchen, easy go-to recipes to make again and again. With so much content, so many recipes to pull from, how did you whittle it down? What is the story you want to tell with your first book?
When thinking about the concept for my first cookbook, right, there’s so many different ways you could go with it or different areas you could focus.
Absolutely.
When thinking about the people who actually cook my recipes and the people who I’m serving, a lot of my audience, they’re busy, they really just need to get dinner on the table for their family. They’re not professional chefs.
The biggest problem is people don’t actually have their go to recipes.
Yes.
When you have your go-to recipes, and that’s the three to five recipes that you have in your arsenal that your family loves, that you feel really confident making, when you have those down, then cooking starts to become really fun and relaxing and enjoyable because you know what’s in your toolbox.
Really, the goal of this book is to help people find the recipes that are gonna be a part of their rotation that they can master and feel really comfortable with, just things to make again and again.
The Five Rules
Rule Number One — Just Start
It’s so incredible that you’ve been able to take it from a hobby into how you run your life, which is why I’m so excited for you to share your five rules for turning your passion into your career. And the first rule in many ways was kickstarted for you with you being laid off from your job, but is really something that people should keep in mind when they want to get rolling in their own project or passion. What’s your first rule?
My first rule is just start. It doesn’t need to be perfect. While the being laid off was such a catalyst towards working on Maxi’s Kitchen full time.
Yeah.
I actually had shared my first video three or four years before that.
Incredible.
It took me a year to actually muster up the courage to share that first video.
Sure. Sure.
I used to share on just my personal instagram story clips of my mom and i cooking together and i noticed that a lot of my friends just loved that content and they were always responding to my story and i started having a feeling oh people are interested in this but then for a year i sat on the idea of putting content out there and starting a blog. At first i was thinking oh i want it to be me and my mom i want it to be more youtube style where we’re talking to camera.
But the problem was I lived in New York at the time and she was still in California. So that wasn’t happening.
There was one low key weekend, wasn’t doing too much. I was just cooking for me and my husband. I was making meatballs in an Italian sauce. And I was like, you know, why don’t I just see if I could film something on my phone and just see if I could put a video together.
If you look back at the beginning of the road for me, the video that I put out was, I don’t want to say horrible compared to the way they look now, but it was just very raw.
Totally fine though.
Yeah, it wasn’t perfect at all. I didn’t have any tripods. I was just holding the phone with my hand. But you have to start somewhere in order to get better.
Rule Number Two — Consistency is Key
Once you get started, your second rule, it’s the piece of advice that I give to everyone who asks about starting a podcast or doing something creatively and putting it out into the world. To me, it’s my number one rule, but I can understand that getting started has to happen for this one to click into place. What is your rule number two?
My rule number two is consistency is key.
Yes. Yes.
This applies to so many things in life in general to be successful, especially when looking at building a career in social media. As a content creator, consistency is important.
I once saw Adam Mosseri, who is the head of Instagram. He said, the right number of posts is whatever you can stay consistent with.
Agree.
So if that’s one post a month, do one post a month. If that’s two per week, do two per week. He was basically saying it’s better to pick something that you can be consistent with versus posting five times in one week and then going silent for the rest of the month.
That always really stuck with me. And I do think finding a manageable cadence that you can stick to is really important.
Finding that cadence also gives a certain amount of reliability with the community that you’re engaging with because they know when to expect it, they know what to expect, it becomes part of their routine.
For sure.
Rule Number Three — Engage With Your Community
This allows you to enact your rule number three. The rule number three is engage with your community and connect with others in your field.
I would comment and like and just really engage with cooking creators or food accounts. I would actually even reach out to aggregator accounts that would post other people’s recipe videos.
Every time you like or comment on another person’s post, you’re making somewhat of a connection with them. And then you’re also leaving footprints back to your own account, which is really helpful.
In terms of connecting with others in your field, that was critical for me when I got laid off. I made a point to set up calls with every single person I knew who was doing something similar to what I was hoping to do.
Just getting all of those different perspectives was really helpful in helping me get my footing when I was first starting out doing it full time.
Rule Number Four — Follow the Inspiration
Once you get the ball rolling, you get content going. Sometimes you start going down a path that wasn’t the original intent. Sometimes that’s good and you discover new things. But as you build a community, they are going to expect a certain type of content from you. Staying focused is a big part of your rule number four.
My rule number four is to follow the inspiration. Sometimes your brain can become very wired to producing content or recipes that you know resonate and that you know perform well with your audience. Of course that is important and that still is something that i think about core to my business.
Something that I’ve learned to tap into more is actually just following my intuition, following the inspiration with the recipes that I create.
There was a book that my friend got me for my birthday called The Creative Act by Rick Rubin.
I don’t know if you’re familiar with it.
Of course.
That actually really helped shift my mindset. He talks a lot about how all creative ideas come from a source, kind of a spiritual approach. He says, when you get a pull by a creative idea, that means that it’s that idea’s time to come into the universe.
I love that so much.
So I really try to trust that as much as possible.
It was so fun working on the cookbook because every single recipe in the book came from a day of inspired thought. And there was never a point where I felt like I had to force creativity.
I was able to have fun with it and really just follow the inspiration.
Rule Number Five — Dream Big & Have a Long-Term Vision
Having that inspiration and the confidence to share your ideas with the world when they’re ready is so important. Your fifth and final rule takes all of your daily work, that long road of determination, and puts it together for a successful career. What’s your rule number five?
My fifth rule is dream big and have a long-term vision.
I’m a big believer in manifestation, the fact that you need to see and believe something in your own mind before it becomes a reality on the outside or in the real world.
Actually, a couple months after I got laid off and started working on Maxi’s Kitchen full time, I created a vision board.
Yes.
On that vision board, it had hitting a million followers on Instagram. It had writing a cookbook. It had hitting 100K on YouTube.
All of those have actually come true already. And then there’s a few other things on there that I hope will come true.
That was really helpful. I put it up in my closet. Every time when I was getting dressed, I would see it.
You’ve really got to believe it in order to achieve it.
Where to Find Maxie’s Kitchen
Maxine, it seems like you have achieved it. If anybody wants to order the book, check along with content created directly from the book, where can they go? How can they get involved?
My Instagram is at maxiskitchen, M-A-X-I-S kitchen. That’s the best place to follow for all the updates, but I’m also on TikTok and YouTube with the same username.
And then maxiskitchen.com is where you can find more of my recipes and newsletter.
For the cookbook specifically, check out mkcookbook.com.
Closing
Incredible. Well, I’m looking forward to holding my very own copy. Good luck on the tour. Good luck with everything. And congrats on achieving your vision.
Thank you so much, Darin. It was so fun to come on the pod. I appreciate it. Hoping to meet you in person at sometime soon.
Matt, it is always a pleasure to see you. I knew that we were going to get a late start because we were just yapping away before we even hit record. Welcome to the show.
It’s always good to chat with you. I know we were definitely talking about... Oh, no, we’re going to cut that out. But yes, we were having a very polite conversation about the scene out here.
I’ve known you for decades now. We ran in similar food circles in New York, and we’ve gotten to spend some time together in LA. You’ve been working in the food media industry for 20 years. Do you remember your salad days and those first few meals of eating out?
One of my first food stories was in 2005. I was working at a men’s magazine and I was working with consumer electronics and gadgets. And I took this egg McMuffin maker. Oh yeah. I took it to a restaurant called Chanterelle in Tribeca. Legendary place. Legendary. Run by David Waltock was the chef. I took the egg McMuffin maker there and had him test it out, which is cool. He had some funny thoughts. We wrote a little funny thing. And that was like my first real food media piece, which was 22 years ago.
Memorable Meals
I’m sure with such a long and illustrious career and you’ve traveled the world for not just taste, but for also your writings, your book, Korea World. Do you remember one meal that stands out that only would have happened because of your experience in this line of work?
From Korea world, Dookie Hong and I wrote that book together. And we were in Korea for that book specifically three times. We were outside Gwangju. We had this meal. I’ll tell you a couple of things about it. First, it was like a beck bong, 30 or 40 dishes laid out communal. I don’t drink alcohol. During the shoot, I was the only one not drinking. Yeah. My man, Dookie, had a few drinks. Everyone else got super f*****g s**t-based. Wow. It’s very traditional. We’re sitting on the floor. It was just pure joy to see everyone kind of tipsy. We were hosted by a wonderful Beck Soju maker, and she just started pouring these drinks and kept pouring and pouring and pouring. I just really loved that. The food, of course, was incredible. It was mostly local produce and a lot of like small fermentation dishes. Those are the kind of situations where I only could have gotten into that room with the work I do.
It’s so amazing. And I think that’s the addictive part to this line of work is getting access to those rooms and to having all these incredible meals. The other side of that same coin is that at some point your body gets older and you get older. When did you realize that you maybe needed more of a balanced approach eating out for work and being on the road?
Did it start with a conversation with my doctor? Like a hard conversation at the age of 30, which is 15 years ago. Perhaps. Perhaps that was it. What really started me on the journey of sorts towards thinking a little better about what I was eating was when I stopped drinking in 2015. I just felt like at the time I was just drinking too much. It was affecting my work. It was affecting my personal relationships. And it wasn’t a falling down drunk moment. People around me were dying. Josh Ozersky was a friend of mine. He died. I literally saw him the night he died at the James Beard Awards. It was the night before. And he looked really great. His spirits were super high. Also, I didn’t like the way the interactions that I was having with people in the industry at parties or at events when I’d had a couple cocktails. And remember, this is a decade ago. We’re like, let’s have a corpse reviver and then have a green point and then maybe have a fourth or fifth classic cocktail because everyone was so down with the classic cocktail revival at the time. And I wrote a lot about alcohol. I felt, of course, hungover the next morning. I felt, did I have meaningful conversations with these people? Or was it just a matter of me being drunk and trying to be funny? And to me, it had taken a toll. Either someone’s going to tell you that your cholesterol is higher than a normal individual, or you’re going to wake up a morning saying, I don’t like the way that I feel.
That really makes you think about how you want to approach, in many ways, what is a professional world when you go out to eat and drink, which is why I’m so excited for you to be sharing your five rules for a food writer’s diet.
Rule 1: Don’t Drink Much in Your 30s and Chill in Your 40s
Now, I know you just touched on this. Everyone is going to come to some reckoning with themselves when it comes to drinking alcohol. Your first rule gives a little bit more of a nuanced approach if you don’t want to stop cold turkey. What’s your rule number one?
Rule number one is don’t drink much in your 30s and chill in your 40s. The language is intentionally vague. I’m not trying to be prescriptive here. I’m not saying don’t drink in your 40s. I’m saying basically in your 30s, you’ve got to really watch your consumption. Be aware of what alcohol does to you. You know, learn in your 30s, earn in your 40s. That’s a long time saying. So I think in the 30s, you should be really absorbing what’s around you. You should be finding mentorship, all that. Alcohol can really stop you in your tracks. As you enter your 40s, I’m just saying just chill. Just be chill with your relationship with alcohol. Many people maybe don’t drink at all or drink one day a week. And I think in your 40s, you’re going to actually see a lot, a lot, a lot of results as you really curtail your drinking. You’re setting yourself up for the rest of your life. You want to be healthy. You want to be in a good spot. And your 40s sets that up.
Rule 2: Dine Out More, Cook the Most
A lot of the times that approach to drinking can be affected of where you are dining, whether it’s at home or whether you’re out and about where you feel comfortable or where you’re in control. And your approach to your rule number two can help you find that balance, not just in drinking, but eating and saving money as well.
100%. Rule number two, dine out more, cook the most. Preach it. Two things are here and they’re in direct opposition, kind of a puzzle, right? Here’s what I’m saying. You should dine out and support restaurants. You should learn about food. 100%. You should go out as much as humanly possible for your budget, be it one day a week, two day a week, three days a week, or more. It’s important. And really, food writer’s diet is a larger ethic I live by. And it doesn’t just have to do with what I’m actually consuming. It’s about the diet being how you consume food in your life. Everything about food. Yeah. Media is part of your diet. Recipes, health and wellness. That’s all part of the diet related to food. Through the years of being a food writer, I’ve definitely figured out that if I go out to restaurants more, I’m just going to absorb all these things better. But cook the most. If you’re eating out and you’re dining on your budget, balance that with cooking meals for yourself. We could talk all day about what cooking means. And it certainly doesn’t mean following a recipe from a cookbook and spending $100 and spending half the day no it could be literally opening three packages and putting them together pre-made rice pre-made sauce doll and some protein that is pre-cooked and you’re just heating it all up that’s cooking so i think you should do that the most dine out more cook the most so what do you got to cut out delivery man i haven’t gotten delivery in over a year to me is like do not get delivery
If it’s not prime pizza, I don’t think we’ve had anything delivered to our house in maybe a year. It unpacks some exceptions, and I will say that these rules definitely have some asterisks, and I think pizza is certainly one of them. Sometimes you just need pizza for the kids. Instead of getting Chinese takeout, go to the restaurant. Sit down and have the meal with your friends, with your family. Absorb what’s happening in the room. It’s better for the restaurants. Financially, it’ll be better for you.
Rule 3: Act Like a Food Writer When Traveling
Going out to eat when you’re at home feels like such a luxury, and it’s even more luxurious when you go out into the world and you start traveling. Now, I am definitely one to do a lot of research and to really think out all my meals and really understand where I’m going when I go and see different parts of this wonderful world, which is a fundamental approach to rule number three.
Rule number three, when traveling for vacation or fun, you should act like a food writer. Yes. What does that mean? A couple things. A good food writer does their research, but also a good food writer travels open-mindedly, travels with two eyes open. So of course we all have done this and we have our 50 to a hundred spots on the Google map of the city that we’re traveling to. Yep. Go to a few of those places, but also when you’re there, be it Stockholm, be it Madison, Wisconsin, you’re in Portland. Oregon or Maine you’re in Mexico City have a plan but also act like a journalist act like a food writer absorb observe and really understand your surroundings and really take some chances and let the story find you I’ll say just taking a walk talking to some people on the ground don’t feel like you have to hit the eight places on the map because I think the best writers find the story
Rule 4: Permission to Call Re-Heating Things Cooking
Going out into the world and looking at food through a writer or professional point of view, and then coming home and feeling that you also have to cook food, maybe something that’s topical or trending, can be overwhelming. It can be daunting to the point of where I know that I’ve had paralysis in the kitchen of Just saying, I’m going to open up a can of tuna, throw in some mayo, and put it on some stale crackers, and that is dinner. Your fourth rule allows me to say that this type of approach to cooking is more than okay. What’s your rule number four?
Rule number four is permission to call re-hitting things cooking. I’m here for it. We as food writers, we project this idea that you have to cook in a certain way, that you have to cook through a cookbook, or you have to make stock from scratch to put into that sauce. There’s been plenty of work around it where we debunk this and we say 30-minute meals are okay, et cetera, et cetera. I think we still, in an effort to explain home cooking, to flex our food writer badge, look, hear a cop showing up at an investigation, you click down the food writer. We tend to do that as food writers. We tend to try to project ourselves as experts by over-explaining and being a little bit more intricate with the way we describe food and cooking. I’m of the opposite opinion. I think that we need to democratize food more. Your example is great. A tuna salad on crackers with basically celery and mayonnaise and tuna. I didn’t say celery. Oh, sorry. You just shamed me right there, man. All right. Sorry. I had no celery for you, but just tuna and mayo. That is cooking. There was a whole era where Rachel Ray was basically dog for the semi-homemade approach. F**k that, man. That is great. That’s smart. And I think what’s happened since Rachel Ray to now is we have so many incredible products that arrive fully formed. Oh yeah. We’ve got freeze-dried soups and sauces from around the world using products that are local. I, as a food writer and part of the food writer’s diet, is acknowledging that that is actually really good, that you’re making that meal for yourself, that you’re actually turning on the oven or even not. You’re using the microwave. That’s still the act of cooking.
Being able to tap into the global network of pre-made products, whether it’s Chili Crisp, is such an amazing type of hack when you’re cooking at home, especially those workhorse Tuesday night, get food on the table meals. I mean, I sneak fish sauce into everything I cook. Shout out to Red Boat. Oh yeah.
Rule 5: Have a Coffee Practice
Your fifth and final rule flips it to the morning because that’s when the writer starts. That’s when sometimes they do their best work. And having this routine, this ritual in your life gets the day going and makes everything hit a little bit better. What’s your rule number five?
My fifth rule to really live the life of a food writer, to follow the food writer’s diet is have a coffee practice. I intentionally worded this slightly broadly because I’m not saying a certain type of process is better than the other. I’ve found myself really rewarded by thinking a little bit more deeply about coffee. Coffee is one of the world’s greatest affordable luxuries. Having a little bit of a deeper relationship with coffee and having a practice, you’re going to live a better life. You’re going to wake up excited to try a new coffee that you bought online, or you’re going to wake up and feel like you can make a cup of coffee that’s better than the cup of coffee that you’ve had to drink the day before because you were in your office early and they only had those push button machines. It could be espresso too. Not going to ignore that. You could have an espresso machine, make yourself a latte, learn some latte art. Maybe you’re using a scale, which I fully endorse. You don’t have to. I’m not making a rule that you have to have a scale, but having that practice and having that kind of ritual and that method and using the right extraction process using like a Chemex or a V60, you’re going to be able to rate the coffees that you purchased. You’re going to appreciate coffee in a deeper way. In fact, when I travel, I bring coffee with me to the room. I actually use a little camping dripper. Yeah. And I won’t leave my hotel room without drinking my own coffee. Makes a difference. And it truly makes my day better. It’s like bringing your own robe on a trip.
Wrap-Up
Matt, thank you so much for sharing these five rules. If people want to listen to the podcast or read the fantastic Substack or get your book, The show is called This Is Taste. And yeah, I write a sub stack. You should just check it out. I cover similar topics. It’s a place where I like to just write freely about fun stuff. And taste, tastecooking.com.
Amazing. Well, Matt, I can’t wait to see you in LA. Always fun to share a meal.
Darin, it’s been great to catch up with you. Thank you for inviting me on.
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