Explorez tous les épisodes du podcast EPIDEMIC with Dr. Celine Gounder

In 1975, smallpox eradication workers in the capital of Bangladesh, Dhaka, rushed to a village in the south of the country called Kuralia. They were abuzz and the journey was urgent because they thought they just might be going to document the very last case of variola major, a deadly strain of the virus. 

When they arrived, they met a toddler, Rahima Banu.

She did have smallpox, and five years later, in 1980, when the World Health Organization declared smallpox eradicated, Banu became a symbol of one of the greatest accomplishments in public health.

That’s the lasting public legacy of Rahima Banu, the girl.

Episode 8, the series finale of “Eradicating Smallpox,” is the story of Rahima Banu, the woman — and her life after smallpox.

To meet with her, podcast host Céline Gounder traveled to Digholdi, Bangladesh, where Banu, her husband, their three daughters, and a son share a one-room bamboo-and-corrugated-metal home with a mud floor. Their finances are precarious. The family cannot afford good health care or to send their daughter to college.

The public has largely forgotten Banu, while in her personal life, she faced prejudice from the local community because she had smallpox. Those negative attitudes followed her for decades after the virus was eradicated. 

“I feel ashamed of my scars. People also felt disgusted,” Banu said, crying as she spoke through an interpreter. 

Despite the hardship she’s faced, she is proud of her role in history, and that her children never had to live with the virus. 
“It did not happen to anyone, and it will not happen,” she said.

Voices From the Episode:

• Rahima Banu
  The last person in the world to have a naturally occurring case of the deadliest strain of smallpox
• Nazma Begum
  Rahima Banu’s daughter
• Rafiqul Islam
  Rahima Banu’s husband
• Alan Schnur
  Former World Health Organization smallpox eradication program worker in Bangladesh

Find a transcript of this episode here.

“Epidemic” is a co-production of KFF Health News and Just Human Productions.

To hear other KFF Health News podcasts, click here.

Subscribe to "Epidemic” on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Pocket Casts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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The 1970s was the deadliest decade in the “entire history of Bangladesh,” said environmental historian Iftekhar Iqbal. A deadly cyclone, a bloody liberation war, and famine triggered waves of migration. As people moved throughout the country, smallpox spread with them.

In Episode 7 of “Eradicating Smallpox,” Shohrab, a man who was displaced by the 1970 Bhola cyclone, shares his story. After fleeing the storm, he and his family settled in a makeshift community in Dhaka known as the Bhola basti. Smallpox was circulating there, but the deadly virus was not top of mind for Shohrab. “I wasn’t thinking about that. I was more focused on issues like where would I work, what would I eat,” he said in Bengali.

When people’s basic needs — like food and housing — aren’t met, it’s harder to reach public health goals, said Bangladeshi smallpox eradication worker Shahidul Haq Khan.

He encountered that obstacle frequently as he traveled from community to community in southern Bangladesh.

He said people asked him: “There's no rice in people's stomachs, so what is a vaccine going to do?”

To conclude this episode, host Céline Gounder speaks with Sam Tsemberis, president and CEO of Pathways Housing First Institute.

He said when public health meets people’s basic needs first, it gives them the best shot at health.

In Conversation With Host Céline Gounder:

• Sam Tsemberis
  Founder, president, and CEO of Pathways Housing First Institute
  @SamTsemberis

Voices From the Episode:

• Shohrab
  Resident of the Bhola basti in Dhaka
• Iftekhar Iqbal
  Associate professor of history at the Universiti Brunei Darussalam
• Shahidul Haq Khan
  Former World Health Organization smallpox eradication program worker in Bangladesh

Find a transcript of this episode here.

“Epidemic” is a co-production of KFF Health News and Just Human Productions.

To hear other KFF Health News podcasts, click here.

Subscribe to "Epidemic” on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Pocket Casts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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In the years leading up to the pandemic, Dr. Celine Gounder, the host of the EPIDEMIC and American Diagnosis podcasts, had the opportunity to care for patients part-time at several Indian Health Service facilities around the United States. Working on the “rez,” one theme came up over and over: resilience.

In this latest season of American Diagnosis, we’re going to share stories of Indigenous people who are taking action to protect the health and wellbeing of their communities in the face of incredible odds and we’ll ask hard questions about why they are confronting so many challenges to their health.

Listen to new episodes of American Diagnosis Season 4: Rezilience starting Jan. 18, 2022. Subscribe to American Diagnosis wherever you get your podcasts. 

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"It's a really interesting question: how do we get closure in this pandemic?  I think a lot of people have hurt and loss that's not been acknowledged. I think acknowledging that loss is very important." - Andy Slavitt

In this final episode of season 1 of EPIDEMIC, we look back on the coronavirus pandemic and how we can move forward with one of our first guests, Andy Slavitt, who was President Biden’s Senior Advisor on COVID-19. Then we hear from you, our listeners, about how the vaccine has changed your life for the better. Finally, Celine gives her personal reflections on the pandemic and shares her upcoming podcast projects.

Andy’s book, Preventable: The Inside Story of How Leadership Failures, Politics, and Selfishness Doomed the U.S. Coronavirus Response, is out now. And check out Andy Slavitt's podcast, In the Bubble.

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"Pregnant women who have SARS-CoV-2 are more likely to be admitted to the ICU, to need a ventilator  and are more likely to die than women of the same age who are not pregnant. Pregnancy definitely makes getting COVID-19 much more dangerous." -Andrea Edlow

Some of the most persistent myths about coronavirus and the vaccines developed to fight it have to do with women's health. In this episode, we'll hear about the latest science when it comes to topics like COVID and a woman's fertility, breastfeeding, and how vaccines can help a pregnant woman protect her child in the womb. We'll also address the legacy of excluding pregnant women from clinical trials and how that history complicated caring for pregnant and lactating women during the pandemic.

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"The pandemic has given us an opportunity to finally change this and if we don't, the economic impact from the fallout of women in the workforce is going to be devastating." -Erika Moritsugu

The pandemic has upended caregiving and what it means to be a working mom. More than 2 million women have left the workforce because of the cost and effort of caring for children and older family members during the pandemic. In this episode of EPIDEMIC, we’ll hear why the United States is the only wealthy nation not to offer comprehensive support to parents, why caregiving is a critical part of American infrastructure,  and what’s at stake if parents and caregivers are forgotten.

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"When you're building a system like a vaccine passport you're potentially excluding millions of people because they don't have this thing that once was optional, but has now become indispensable." -Albert Fox Cahn

How do you let people who are fully vaccinated get back to normal life without creating super-spreader events for those who haven’t yet been vaccinated? Some are calling for vaccine certification programs that could hopefully re-open large parts of the economy safely while we still work on getting the vast majority vaccinated. In this episode, we’re going to hear about the ethics and logistics of vaccine certificates in the United States and around the world. We'll hear the arguments for and against them, and how the burden of these programs falls unevenly around the world.

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"You can't fight scarcity with scarcity. The only way out of the vaccine problem is by making a lot more of it." -James Krellenstein

India is the world's largest supplier of vaccines but the government there suspended the export of all COVID-19 vaccines after a devastating outbreak this spring. This is just the latest reason why global health leaders are calling for a new, decentralized approach to vaccine manufacturing around the world. In this week’s episode we’ll look at the challenge facing developing nations when it comes to vaccines; how life-saving technology like mRNA vaccines could be rolled out around the world; and why it’ll take a generational investment to make sure the developing world is prepared for the next pandemic.

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"It's a triumph of science and engineering that we now have multiple effective COVID vaccines. We just need to find the political will to invest a bit more money and deploy them around the world." -Chris Morten

President Joe Biden said the United States would be the world's "arsenal of vaccines" but critics say current plans to donate 80 million doses around the world are not enough. Instead, countries like India and South Africa are calling for a waiver on vaccine patents so they can make their own. In this episode we’re going to look at the controversy around patent protections for vaccines during the pandemic and what the U.S. government could do to improve access to vaccines around the world. We'll hear what tools the U.S. government has to pressure companies to share their vaccine tech and learn about some ideas on how the patent system could be re-imagined to ensure life-saving technology is more equitably distributed.

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"They benefit from traffic no matter if it's good information or malignant misinformation. " -Imran Ahmed

During the pandemic, disinformation campaigns have been targeting people of color with lies like African Americans can't get COVID or denying the pandemic is even real. In this episode, we’re going to hear more about how these disinformation networks are gaming social media algorithms. We'll hear how the United States has become a hub for disinformation exported around the world, and what legislators need to do to tackle bad actors.

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"What we really need to be doing is not belittle people. Don't wag your finger at them. Don't make them feel stupid or small for not having gotten the vaccine yet. Talk to them about why it's safe." - Gov. Chris Christie

Conservatives have emerged as the group least likely to say they’ll get vaccinated. Getting more conservative Americans comfortable with the vaccines will be needed to control the pandemic as national vaccination rates have started to slow and new variants spread across the United States. In this episode we’ll look at the results of a focus group attended by Governor Christie and other GOP leaders to listen to these voters’ concerns and see if they could be convinced to get vaccinated.

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"Disinformation is a deliberate falsehood put out to mislead an audience. But what we see more of are true bits of information where necessary context has been removed or manipulated in a way that makes it technically true but wildly misleading." -Bret Schafer 

In this episode of EPIDEMIC, we’re going to look at disinformation during the pandemic. Specifically, we’re going to look at how the Russian government and far-right militias are using vaccine disinformation to push their agendas. We’ll look at the motivations behind disinformation campaigns, why they can be so convincing, and what can be done about them. 

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Global fears of overpopulation in the ’60s and ’70s helped fuel India’s campaign to slow population growth. Health workers tasked to encourage family planning were dispatched throughout the country and millions of people were sterilized: some voluntarily, some for a monetary reward, and some through force. 

This violent and coercive campaign — and the distrust it created — was a backdrop for the smallpox eradication campaign happening simultaneously in India. When smallpox eradication worker Chandrakant Pandav entered a community hoping to persuade people to accept the smallpox vaccine, he said he was often met with hesitancy and resistance.

“People's bodies still remember what was done to them,” said medical historian Sanjoy Bhattacharya.

Episode 6 of “Eradicating Smallpox” shares Pandav’s approach to mending damaged relationships.

To gain informed consent, he sat with people, sang folk songs, and patiently answered questions, working both to rebuild broken trust and slow the spread of smallpox. 

To conclude the episode, host Céline Gounder speaks with the director of the global health program at the Council on Foreign Relations, Thomas Bollyky. He said public health resources might be better spent looking for ways to encourage cooperation in low-trust communities, rather than investing to rebuild trust. 

In Conversation With Host Céline Gounder:

• Thomas Bollyky
  Director of the global health program at the Council on Foreign Relations
  @TomBollyky

Voices From the Episode:

• Chandrakant Pandav
  Community medicine physician and former World Health Organization smallpox eradication worker in India
  @pandavcs1
• Gyan Prakash
  Professor of history at Princeton University, specializing in the history of modern India
  @prakashzone
• Sanjoy Bhattacharya
  Medical historian and professor of medical and global health histories at the University of Leeds
  @joyagnost
   

Find a transcript of this episode here.

“Epidemic” is a co-production of KFF Health News and Just Human Productions.  

To hear other KFF Health News podcasts, click here.

Subscribe to “Epidemic” on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,  Google Podcasts, Pocket Casts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
 

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"I don't think that herd immunity is a possibility for SARS CoV-2. I think there's going to be a different kind of equilibrium that we reach in the future where humans and SARS-CoV-2 co-exist in a much milder, more benign way." -Jennie Lavine

The end of the pandemic might not mean the end of SARS-CoV-2. In fact, many scientists think COVID is here to stay, even with vaccines.  In this episode we'll hear why we may never reach herd immunity, how the coronavirus could change over time, and why kids are the key to reducing the severity of the disease.

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"The messaging that we've done in West Virginia is, look, we are leading the country, and that has really given people a sense that we can dispel a lot of negative stereotypes. We can be a world leader in a positive way." -Chris Martin

Rural America's vaccine rollout has bucked expectations. A recent survey from the Kaiser Family Foundation found that four in 10 rural Americans reported getting at least their first dose of vaccine. That’s compared to three in 10 in urban and suburban areas. In this episode, we’re going to hear how healthcare workers are getting the word out about vaccination in three different rural communities. We’ll hear about the challenges to convincing people to get the vaccine, what’s working, and what it’s like to volunteer in a rural vaccination clinic.

This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.

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"This virus does not discriminate. The vaccine is what is going to help to get us out of this crisis and stop the depth and the harm and the pain, which is what we're suffering two to three times more than our white counterparts." -Sandra Lindsay 

Reports show that Black Americans are less likely to get vaccinated than the general population but Black healthcare workers are taking on the mission to inform and  hopefully convince more people of color to get vaccinated. We’ll hear where this outreach has fallen flat in the past and how Black healthcare workers are finding new ways to change hearts and minds about the vaccine. 

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"We have to have a conversation where we take people's fears seriously and try to figure out what is going on there." -Vanessa Gamble

Black Americans are  twice as likely to die from COVID as white Americans. Despite this, polls show that African-Americans are less interested in receiving the vaccine than other groups. But for people of color who do want the vaccine, inequities in U.S. healthcare are making access to vaccines more difficult. To get a fuller picture of the African American experience with vaccines and public health, we’re going to look at the history of medical experimentation on Black people. We'll hear why African American doubts about vaccines go beyond the infamous syphilis experiment at Tuskegee, how this legacy lives on today, and  what lessons we can learn from these mistakes to help get more people vaccinated. 

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"I think a lot of people don't understand how fearful Chinese Americans and other Asian Americans are in this moment" -Toby Chow

On March 16, a gunman in Atlanta killed eight people. Six of them were women of Asian descent. During the last 12 months, anti-Asian hate crimes were up 150% in the United States but the coronavirus pandemic is not the first time people of Asian descent have been stigmatized because of a disease. In this episode, we’ll look back at what happened in San Francisco during the California Gold Rush when an outbreak of the plague was blamed on Chinese immigrants. We'll look back to see what happened in San Francisco, and how overcoming bigotry then prevented a plague pandemic in America.

If you're looking to support the Asian American and Pacific Islander community at this time, two organizations we recommend are the Asian American Pacific Islander Civic Engagement Fund  and Asian American Advancing Justice Atlanta. 

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"This is an invisible war and if we don't use our weapons we are not going to win it." -Ester Sabino

In the fall of 2020, the Brazilian city of Manaus had the highest SARS CoV-2 infection rate in the world — possibly as high as 75 percent. Some speculated that with rates of infection this high, there would not be enough people left for the virus to infect. Had the city reached so-called natural herd immunity? For a few months cases started to drop but this winter things got worse than ever. We’ll hear what caused this devastating second wave in Manaus, why herd immunity from natural infection wasn’t protective, and why — even with vaccines — we can’t let our guard down.

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"We easily have never had  as high a level of vaccination acceptance as we have now but we've asked a lot more of the public. The resistance that we see today is a response, in part, to that compounded request over time." - Elena Conis

The vast majority of Americans accept vaccines but concerns about the effect vaccines could theoretically have on kids have been some of the oldest and most resilient drivers of vaccine mistrust. At this recording, the COVID vaccines authorized for emergency use have not yet been approved for children but if the United States is to eventually reach herd immunity, children will need to be vaccinated. In this second episode in our series on vaccine confidence, we'll hear from a mother who went from being an anti-vaxxer to an advocate for vaccines. 

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"Every generation has generated its own anti-vaccinationism based on very similar concerns." -Jonathan Berman

Vaccines are a safe and critical public health tool. They prevent crippling childhood diseases like polio. They’re responsible for the eradication of one of the deadliest diseases ever — smallpox — and, today, they’re one of the most important measures we have to end the coronavirus pandemic. But despite these achievements people have been worried about vaccines for as long as they’ve existed and this anxiety is a serious challenge to reaching herd immunity.  In this episode of EPIDEMIC, we look back to the 1800s to learn from the mistakes of the first mass vaccination campaigns in the United Kingdom and  the United States. 

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"When we think about a virus we don't think as much about the immune response to the virus but it is just so, so critical." -David Fajgenbaum

Where do treatments come from when there's a new disease like COVID-19? The vast majority of drugs prescribed to treat COVID during the pandemic are actually old drugs. Some of the most effective have been around for as much as 70 years. In this episode of EPIDEMIC, we’re going to hear how David Fajgenbaum's quest for a treatment for his rare disease is helping find effective treatments for COVID — and other diseases — in surprising places.  

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"It just shows how difficult it is to be reactive with this virus. By the time you've detected something and understood the significance of it you're already several steps behind the virus." -Richard Lessells

This is the second in our series on variants of concern. Our previous episode looked at the UK variant, and today we’re looking at the variant that emerged in South Africa: 501Y.V2. This variant is not only more transmissible, but has demonstrated the troubling ability to evade the body's immune system and even some vaccines. We'll hear from experts about how the 501Y.V2 variant is able to do this and what it means for our vaccine strategy in the coming months. 

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In spring 1974, over a dozen smallpox outbreaks sprang up throughout the Indian state of Madhya Pradesh. Determined to find the source of the cases, American smallpox eradication worker Larry Brilliant and a local partner, Zaffar Hussain, launched an investigation.

The answer: Each outbreak could be traced back to Tatanagar, a city run by one of India’s largest corporations, the Tata Group.

When Brilliant arrived at the Tatanagar Railway Station, he was horrified by what he saw: people with active cases of smallpox purchasing train tickets. The virus was spreading out of control.

Brilliant knew that to stop the outbreak at its source, he would need the support of the company that ran the city. But he wasn’t optimistic the Tata Group would help.

Still, he had to try. So, Brilliant tracked down a Tata executive and knocked on his door in the middle of the night.

Brilliant’s message: “Your company is sending death all over the world. You're the greatest exporter of smallpox in history.”

Much to his surprise, the leaders of Tata listened.

Episode 5 of “Eradicating Smallpox” explores the unique partnership between the Tata Group and the campaign to end the virus. This collaboration between the private and public sector, domestic and international, proved vital in the fight to eliminate smallpox.

To conclude the episode, host Céline Gounder speaks with NBA commissioner Adam Silver and virologist David Ho about the basketball league’s unique response to covid-19 — “the bubble” — and the essential role businesses can play in public health. “We need everyone involved,” Ho said, “from government, to academia, to the private sector.”

In Conversation With Host Céline Gounder:

• Adam Silver
  Commissioner of the NBA
• David Ho
  Director and CEO of the Aaron Diamond AIDS Research Center

Voices From the Episode:

• Larry Brilliant
  Former World Health Organization smallpox eradication worker in India
  @larrybrilliant

Find a transcript of this episode here.

“Epidemic” is a co-production of KFF Health News and Just Human Productions.

To hear other KFF Health News podcasts, click here.

Subscribe to “Epidemic” on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Pocket Casts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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"I had been assuming that my life and everyone else's life would get closer to normal in March. This [variant] has me worried that it won't be March, that we'll have a spring wave and I don't know how big that will be."  -Trevor Bedford

This winter a new, more contagious variant of SARS-CoV-2 arose in the United Kingdom: B.1.1.7. The CDC estimates that this will become the dominant strain of coronavirus in the United States by March. This is the first of several episodes on the science and policy implications of the new coronavirus variants emerging out of the UK, South Africa, and Brazil. This episode will discuss how new variants are created, why we need to worry about B.1.1.7, and what this all means for public health in the coming months. 

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"When we interact with nature there are  unpredictable and weird mechanisms by which pathogens might be able to move between the species." -Tony Goldberg

There’s a lot we don’t know about the origin of the SARS-CoV-2 virus but there is a consensus that it came from animals. This is called zoonosis. HIV, Zika, and Ebola were all viruses in animals before jumping to humans. This is a serious problem. Most new or emerging infectious diseases are the result of zoonotic transmission and we’re seeing more zoonotic diseases appear at a faster rate than ever before. In this episode of EPIDEMIC, we speak to some of the scientists looking for the next potential pandemic virus and what could be done to reduce the risk of spillover events in the future.

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"This is not like a lot of the other disasters that people have studied. It looks a lot more like what you'd expect to see in people who have lived through a war. " -Roy Perlis

This is the second in our two-part series about deaths of despair during the pandemic. We speak with experts and review the latest data on how the pandemic is affecting rates of depression, anxiety, and even suicide in the United States. We’ll look back at what was driving these deaths before the pandemic, how the pandemic is impacting people’s mental health, and  how this crisis may change access to mental health services in the future.

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"When the pandemic hit, many of our recovery groups went online but that's really not the same. All that great work we had been building momentum towards came to a screeching halt." -Will Cooke

Overdoses have spiked during the pandemic. One of the reasons is a breakdown in the community support so critical to keeping people off drugs. Social distancing measures and quarantine have created deadly complications for people recovering from addiction. In this episode we'll hear two stories, one from New York City and another from Austin, Indiana, about how the coronavirus pandemic is exacerbating the overdose epidemic. This is the first in a two part series on Deaths of Despair and the pandemic. 

For more information about Imani's Safe House, go to https://www.imanissafehouse.com

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"It's my responsibility as an owner to figure out how to afford to pay everyone an ethical, fair, livable wage but we have to start from the premise of paying them an ethical, livable wage" -Pete Ternes

We’re revisiting restaurants as part of our series on industries disrupted by the pandemic. In this episode we speak with restaurateurs and a labor activist about how the pandemic is reshaping how some think about tips and the minimum wage.  We'll see why tipping so is problematic, why it's so hard to quit, and what a living wage might look like for restaurant workers after the pandemic.

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Transcript

"That's the challenge with infodemics: too much information and not knowing who to trust." - Claire Wardle

Combating misinformation has become more important than ever during the pandemic. The novel coronavirus,  social media, and a polarized political environment created something public health experts have dubbed an "infodemic" — a flood of misleading information and conspiracy theories about the coronavirus and the public response to it. In this episode of EPIDEMIC, we'll hear how misinformation spreads online, share some tips on how to spot it, and find out what needs to change to keep misinformation from causing serious harm.

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"Masks are absolutely essential because you can't always control when someone gets too close to you. You can't control the ventilation in every room that you go into. The thing you control the most, that you have one hundred percent control over, is that mask." - Kimberly Prather

As the death toll from COVID-19 surpassed 300,000 in the United States this week, wearing a mask has never been more important. In this episode, Kimberly Prather and Linsey Marr explain the latest science on how the coronavirus spreads, and what it means for the kind of mask people should wear, and other public health measures.

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"If you're going to be traveling, if you're going to be in a situation where you might be exposed to others or where you can protect others by quarantining yourself, right now is the time to do it and to do it carefully because this is when it can be especially effective" -Jeffrey Townsend

Quarantines are an effective way to stop the spread of the coronavirus but they have been one of the most difficult and confusing parts of the pandemic. New research shows how people exposed to the coronavirus could cut their quarantine in half if it is paired with a test at the right time. This episode looks at this research and how it prevented an outbreak on an offshore oil rig.

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"This, quite frankly, is our generation's Manhattan project" -Sree Chaguturu

This has been a big week for vaccines. There are two vaccines under review by the FDA and the United Kingdom has become the first country to authorize Pfizer's mRNA vaccine. In this episode, we'll talk about the science behind mRNA vaccines, and discuss the physical and mental logistics needed to get these revolutionary vaccines to the public. 

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"I was watching the nurses and the doctors and everyone in the healthcare industry just going through this trauma... It was just like people needed help and I had a chance to help." -Jon Gunnell

Thanksgiving is right around the corner but new daily cases of coronavirus are worse than ever. In this episode, we'll hear some tips for how to stay safe this holiday season. We'll also hear the story of a nurse who decided to move across the country to help New York City in the early days of the pandemic.

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At noon ET on Thursday Sept. 14, Epidemic host Céline Gounder and her guests will come together for a live web event. Click here to register for the event.

In Conversation With Host Céline Gounder:

Helene D. Gayle, a physician and an epidemiologist, is president of Spelman College. She is a board member of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation and past director of the foundation’s program on HIV, tuberculosis, and reproductive health. She spent two decades with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention focusing primarily on HIV/AIDS prevention and global health.

William H. “Bill” Foege is an epidemiologist and a physician, and was a leader in the campaign to end smallpox during the 1970s. Foege is featured in Episode 2 of the “Eradicating Smallpox” docuseries.

Submit your questions for the panel here.

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Transcript

"Food is not going to solve the world's problems because food is itself a part of the problem, but food is an opportunity to begin thinking about it." - Tunde Wey

When airlines and other big industries were getting federal aid at the start of the pandemic, chef and artist Tunde Wey argued that the restaurant industry — his own industry — wasn’t worth saving. In this episode, we’ll hear what Tunde thinks is so wrong about how restaurants operate, what the pandemic has done to the industry, and the solutions some restaurateurs are pursuing to re-image a more equitable future.

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"There's this toxic cocktail of low endowment per student, high tuition, low experience, low certification... Those universities could be out of business in a year." - Scott Galloway

Coronavirus concerns forced many universities to close their campuses this fall. The mix of fewer students on campus, canceled athletics, and online courses is threatening the viability of many traditional colleges and universities. But the pandemic is also creating opportunities to re-imagine what higher education could look like in the future. This first episode in our series on COVID's impacts on the economy looks at why some schools are so vulnerable, the next big thing in online education, and how these schools can pivot in a post-pandemic market.

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"We have this long history of seeking personal and individual solutions to public problems and I think the zombie films highlight that." - Robert Wonser

From Night of the Living Dead, to 28 Days Later, and World War Z, pandemics have always been at the heart of zombie movies. In this Halloween edition of Epidemic, we find out what these films get right and wrong about the current coronavirus pandemic, what they can teach us about epidemiology, and how fans of horror movies are experiencing the pandemic differently than the rest of us. 

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"I would put this in very plain English: The way to protect the vulnerable is to have fewer infections, not more infections." - Dr. Tom Frieden

Talk of achieving herd immunity without a vaccine is back in the news, despite the consensus among public health experts that this approach would cost hundreds of thousands of American lives. Former CDC Director Dr. Tom Frieden talks about his recent op-ed against this approach and the "one-two punch" to get the pandemic under control.

Then, evolutionary biologist Dr. Mark Pagel explains why some of the traits that make humans so successful as a species are getting in the way of an effective response to the pandemic,  especially when it comes to wearing a face mask.

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“What could be more political [than] the determination of whether the president can fulfill the powers and duties of his office.” —Prof. George Annas

Earlier this month, President Trump announced that he was COVID-positive and was hospitalized for treatment. Since then, a flurry of questions has been raised about his health, and his ability to lead moving forward. Though COVID is new, this is not the first time a president has been seriously ill while serving in office. On today’s episode of EPIDEMIC, we look to history to see how past presidents have handled their health while in office, and what impacts that had on government and politics. Our guests on this episode are Art Caplan (Professor of Medical Ethics at the NYU Grossman School of Medicine), Joel Goldstein (Emeritus professor of law at St Louis University), George Annas (Professor of Health Law, Ethics & Human Rights at Boston University School of Public Health), and John Feerick (professor of law at Fordham University).

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"Healthcare is political. There's a difference between politics and partisanship. Thinking about healthcare as not being political I think is where many doctors and unfortunately our healthcare system stand to lose the most." —Dr. Alister Martin

COVID has made voting a public health issue this year. In this episode, we'll hear how nursing-home workers, doctors, and entrepreneurs are working to get out the vote in the middle of a pandemic.

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“It's not like the straight trajectory towards recovery… It very feels very much like a one step forward, two steps back. People referred to it as the Corona coaster, because you don't know where it's going to take you next” —Diana Berrent

COVID “long-haulers” are people who have extended experiences with COVID symptoms that never let up, or keep recurring. The virus is so new that we do not have a clear picture of what each person’s experience with the disease will be like. In today’s episode, we are hearing from members of the Survivor Corps — a group of COVID long-haulers. Diana Berrent, Marcus Tomoff, Eli Musser, Marjorie Roberts, share their experiences with the ups and downs of relentless COVID symptoms, how the virus has impacted their life, and also their struggles with getting medical care.

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“Public health is one of the few agencies locally that you can guarantee is apolitical. They just care about protecting the health of the community. … But these measures and these tactics by health officers are seen as political and an attempt to limit people's rights.” —Lori Freeman, CEO of the National Association of County and City Health Officials

Public health experts have faced strong backlash for supporting decisions to close businesses and to enforce lockdowns and social distancing measures. How have public health officials balanced these opposing pressures?

On today’s episode of EPIDEMIC, we hear from Lori Freeman (CEO of the National Association of County and City Health Officials) and Theresa Anselmo (executive director of the Colorado Association of Local Public Health Officials), about how public health officials have been affected by this backlash. Then, we speak with Garry Kasparov (chairman of the Human Rights Foundation and the Renew Democracy Initiative) about his first-hand experiences with the fallout from his opposition of the Russian government, and what parallels he sees in present-day America.

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“I think it's a fascinating microcosm of the situation we’re in as a country. I do think the plan has also may be shown a way that the pandemic needs to be attacked on a larger scale, which is what can be done when testing is plentiful and accessible; what can be done when people are taking mask-wearing seriously; what can be done when people are social distancing, seriously, what can we do when people are quarantining seriously?” —Rohan Nadkarni

What would mass testing for COVID look like in America, and what can the world of sports teach us about it? Basketball and baseball teams have used frequent testing with and without strict quarantine to keep the players and coaches safe. On today’s episode of EPIDEMIC, our host Dr. Celine Gounder speaks with Dr. Michael Mina, an Assistant Professor of Epidemiology at the Harvard Chan School of Public Health, and Sports Illustrated writers Rohan Nadkarni and Stephanie Apstein. They discuss the potential and pitfalls of implementing mass testing in the world of sports and how these lessons may translate to the public at large.

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“Right now … we are in the middle of it, [a] very politicized situation… a lot of divisiveness in our country. So when you try to get a public health message out, unfortunately, it becomes so political that there are those who are in favor of what you want to do from a public health standpoint and those who oppose it to the point of almost as if you were doing something to hurt them.” —Dr. Anthony Fauci

Dr. Anthony Fauci — Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease, and a leader of the White House Coronavirus Task Force — join us on today’s episode of the EPIDEMIC podcast. Dr. Fauci and our host Dr. Celine Gounder discuss the progress of developing a COVID vaccine, and the latest breaking-news results from the AstraZeneca Oxford vaccine trial. We then hear Dr. Fauci’s viewpoints on his role in communicating science to the American people, how his fascination with political history (and the Godfather) has sculpted his leadership philosophy, and how the politicization of public health has influenced our experience of this pandemic.

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Shahidul Haq Khan, a Bangladeshi health worker, and Tim Miner, an American with the World Health Organization, worked together on a smallpox eradication team in Bangladesh in the early 1970s. The team was based on a hospital ship and traveled by speedboat to track down cases of smallpox from Barishal to Faridpur to Patuakhali. Every person who agreed to get the smallpox vaccination was a potential outbreak averted, so the team was determined to vaccinate as many people as possible.

The duo leaned on each other, sometimes literally, as they traversed the country’s rugged and watery geography. Khan, whom Miner sometimes referred to as “little brother,” used his local knowledge to help the team navigate both the cultural and physical landscape. When crossing rickety bamboo bridges, he would hold Miner’s hand and help him across. “We didn’t let him fall,” chuckled Khan.

Episode 4 of “Eradicating Smallpox” explores what it took to bring care directly to people where they were.

To conclude the episode, host Céline Gounder speaks with public health advocate Joe Osmundson about his work to help coordinate a culturally appropriate response to mpox in New York City during the summer of 2022. “The model that we're trying to build is a mobile unit that delivers all sorts of sexual and primary healthcare opportunities. They're opportunities!” exclaimed Osmundson.

In Conversation With Host Céline Gounder:

• Joe Osmundson
  Public health advocate and clinical assistant professor of biology at New York University
  @reluctantlyjoe

Voices From the episode:

• Tim Miner
  Former World Health Organization smallpox eradication program 
  worker in Bangladesh
• Shahidul Haq Khan
  Former World Health Organization smallpox eradication program 
  worker in Bangladesh

Find a transcript of this episode here.

“Epidemic” is a co-production of KFF Health News and Just Human Productions.

To hear other KFF Health News podcasts, click here.

Subscribe to “Epidemic” on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Pocket Casts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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“If we want to bring students back to college, we have to redefine what college is for the short term… and so we need to think about it with more innovation and depth of thought if we would if we were just applying crisis management models.” —Eleanor Daugherty, Associate Vice President for Student Affairs and Dean of Students at the University of Connecticut

The college experience will look very different for many students gearing up to re-enter schools in the fall. How can colleges prepare to bring students back on campus — if at all? Today, we hear from Eleanor Daugherty, Associate Vice President for Student Affairs and Dean of Students at the University of Connecticut; Dr. Amy Gorin, Professor of Psychological Sciences at UConn; Dr. Rochelle Walensky, Professor of Medicine at Harvard Medical School; and journalist Allison Slater Tate, about the logistics and planning required to safely resume school in the fall. They discuss social distancing and masking policies on campus, potential scenarios for testing, and the effect this will all have on students’ college experiences.

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“The goal is not to reopen schools; it’s to keep schools open. And if we reopen too fast, just as we reopened States too fast, you saw what happened. States had to shut down and schools would have to shut down. And that for me would be just a travesty. You re-traumatize children and further endanger… their parents and teachers and bus drivers and custodians.” - Arne Duncan, former US Secretary of Education

Normally at this time of year, students would be gearing up for the back-to-school season. But this year, school will look very different for students across the nation. And an even bigger question remains: should schools be opening at all? On today’s episode, we hear from Arne Duncan, former US Secretary of Education from the Obama administration, Stephanie Gounder, a charter school principal in Houston, and journalist Allison Slater Tate. Together, they look back at the impact of remote learning on students, parents, and teachers, and discuss how schools could safely reopen — if at all.

Nominations for the 2020 People's Choice Podcast Awards are open through July 31st. To show your support, please go to podcastawards.com and nominate us in the People’s Choice and Health categories.

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Transcript

“Now that we see them, my hope is that our field of vision about who is working, and just how valuable they are, continues to widen. And that is it's not only about awareness and clapping for them at seven o'clock at night, but we're actively taking action and demanding that they be protected. Demanding that they be compensated. Demanding that they are able to keep their themselves and their families safe, crisis, or no crisis. “ - Ai-jen Poo, Director of the National Domestic Workers Alliance

The workforce of domestic employees is comprised largely of women and women of color. This group has been severely impacted by COVID-19, facing job insecurity, lack of paid sick days, and low wages. The pandemic relief bills passed by the Senate for essential workers had conspicuously excluded domestic workers, leaving them vulnerable to disruptions caused by the pandemic. In today’s episode, we hear from Ai-jen Poo, the Director of the National Domestic Workers Alliance; Susie Rivera, a home caregiver in Texas; and Glewna Joseph, a housekeeper. We discuss the ways in which their work has been changed by COVID-19, how the pandemic has brought awareness to the need for increased protection of domestic workers’ rights, as well as the steps being taken to bring about these much-needed changes.

Nominations for the 2020 People's Choice Podcast Awards are open through July 31st. To show your support, please go to podcastawards.com and nominate us in the People’s Choice and Health categories.

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Transcript

“I literally love my job… and being able to wake up and the end of the day and also say … I possibly helped save a life.” — Kimberly Jocelyn

Contact tracers like Kimberly are an integral part of New York City’s plan to reopen safely. If someone tests positive for COVID, contact tracers make it possible to determine which network of people may have been exposed to the virus. But, contact tracers are also tasked with the delicate job of informing someone of their possible exposure. On today’s episode, we speak with Maryama Diaw and Kimberly Jocelyn, who are both contact tracers in New York, about their experiences on the job. We also hear from Dr. Jay Varma, a physician and epidemiologist in New York City, about the science behind contact tracing.

Nominations for the 2020 People's Choice Podcast Awards opened on July 1st. To show your support, please go to podcastawards.com and nominate us in the People’s Choice and Health categories.

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