On this bonus episode, you'll hear our own Devin Bramhall in conversation with Alex Kracov from Dock on his show, Grow and Tell. They talk about how startups should be thinking about content, how she scaled Animalz, and how she grew our podcast, Don't Say Content.

Check out Grow and Tell here: https://www.dock.us/grow-and-tell

In this replay, we're talking about one of those tough moments in leadership. You’re ready to hire marketing talent (either your first hire or a head of marketing), but you don’t have a background in marketing.

What background do you look for? How do you set them up for success?

We’ve seen the downward spiral of failure: your VCs/board giving bad advice, a lack of shared language around marketing roles and responsibilities, an over-indexing on tactics and copy edits— and they all lead to a revolving door of bad-fit marketers coming in and out of your organization. 

Devin and Margaret explore how to successfully hire for and manage a role that you’re not an expert in—on this episode of Don’t Say Content.

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Experimentation is the Queen of Marketing Strategy these days as Martech continues to evolve, GenAI content becomes the new keyword stuffing and Google follows their hearts on SERPs in what seems like a midlife crisis-induced mushroom trip. No one knows what’s going to happen, so the best marketing strategy today involves testing & play to determine the best tactical mix for your business. Ned MacPherson, Chief Growth Officer of Power Digital is here this week to share what trends he’s noticing in CRO right now and his thoughts on the future of marketing strategy.

Resources:

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Marketing is really just relationship-building at scale. But within that "scale" are activities that aren't 100% programmable. That's what a successful marketing mix looks like. But explaining that to stakeholders isn't always easy. As marketers we have to be both business strategists, human connectors and creatives. Today we're talking with Rachel Elsts Downey, founder/CEO of Share Your Genius, about the growth strategies available in tight economic climates and how no aspects of marketing are, in fact, dead.

Resources:
Connect with Rachel: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelelstsdowney/
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

It’s 5 pm, do you know how your CMO is doing? You probably do, because they are anxiously wading through the same muck wondering how they are going to deliver consistent results while the foundation of their industry and macro environment are in tumult. 

The average day of a CMO right involves trying to strategically plan growth when even demand gen playbooks aren’t functioning like they used to, buyers are taking longer at every stage of the journey, budgets are both reduced and less consistent QoQ, and no one wtf is going to happen with interest rates, search, AI, the election, wars, etc will impact their companies, campaigns, day-to-day lives. 

So yeah, CMOs are feeling it, too, and we talked to a few for this episode as a kind of group hug and reminder: You’re not alone!

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

What makes a marketing function successful today? 

There are new trends and old playbooks, but what marketers do startups really need? And what about bigger companies? 

We talk structure, success, and our big dreams for what it looks like in the future. 

Join us as we chat through what types of marketers we see rising to the top now, and how marketing can best align and structure itself to grow into the future.

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

We talked about it way back in season 1. Today, what we’re interested in is: What personal brand currently does for individuals, particularly in a world where there's waning trust among institutions and executives? 

Personal branding is reputation. As tech moves faster, channels change more rapidly, you have to  harness your reputation. Yes, even if you’re B2B. Actually, ESPECIALLY if you’re B2B. 

You have a personal brand, regardless if you’re activating it through social channels. Even if you don’t want to be an “influencer”, this episode is for you. 

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Ok, ok. So, we’ve all been wrapping our heads around how to use AI in our content marketing production and distribution for a bit now. It’s time we talk about it. 

In this episode, we dive into some bigger questions. How should you think about AI? How will it affect quality? What does AI change? And what will always remain? 

If you’re using AI, or if you’re too overwhelmed to even know where to start, this one’s for you. 

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

As you ascend to higher levels in your career, your most valuable skill becomes navigating internal politics, policy, and process. It's not just about managing up when you work for large companies, it's about managing many senior stakeholders and the dynamics they bring with them. Competency goes a long way  to getting the opportunities you want, the budgets you need and support for your initiatives. 

We're going live with Ashley Faus, Head of Lifecycle Marketing at Atlassian, to learn her strategies for navigating the corporate maze to elevate your influence and efficacy.

Connect with Ashley: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyfaus/
Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/
Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

This is the best episode we’ve ever recorded. 

Is it because we get into an in-depth spicy conversation (cough, argument, cough) about why everyone and their mother are measuring awareness and affinity marketing programs totally wrong? Is it because Margaret gets so heated that she drops f-bombs, and eventually Devin says something she RARELY ever says? Is it because we put CFOs completely on blast for ruining marketing metrics?

You decide! 

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

No one taught us the new skills we needed when we became heads of marketing/VPs of marketing. 

All of a sudden, the majority of our work wasn't marketing itself. Not the external stuff. The majority of our work was executive alignment around the priorities and budget of marketing. And to do so in an exec team that - for the most part - didn't have a marketing background. 

Daily to-do's changed, and it was painful. It felt like we were doing work that "didn't matter" because it wasn't seen externally. Even more painful? Having to learn how to delegate enough work that you have time for these new to-do’s. 

In this episode, we explore the overlap of executive alignment, delegation, and motivation. Giddy-up y’all. It’s a good one. 

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Audacity - or as the kids call it: delulu. 

You need more of it in your life. 

In this episode, we explore our own relationship with audacity, how to cultivate it, why it’s so elusive to maintain, and why it’s so important at this (and any point) in your career. 

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Just like Content Marketing, growing an audience (organically) takes consistent investment and patience. How much time depends on your resources, strategy and - perhaps most importantly - how broad of a community you're trying to build. Plus a whole bunch of other questions and factors within those areas. We've learned a lot while building Don't Say Content with Share Your Genius, so today we're going to share all the things we tried, what really happens, and how we view audience-building strategy after 2 years of building our own.

Is marketing a creative or business role?

We believe that marketing should be heavily involved in business strategy - not just creative strategy. But oftentimes, the marketing teams are positioned to support business growth rather than craft the strategy itself.

In this episode, we explore how founders/CEOs can deploy their marketing function to focus more on business strategy, and what comes first (no, no - not the chicken or the egg, the business strategy or the go-to-market strategy). 

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

It’s a tough moment: You’re ready to hire marketing talent (either your first hire or a head of marketing), but you don’t have a background in marketing. 

What background do you look for? How do you set them up for success?

We’ve seen the downward spiral of failure: your VCs/board giving bad advice, a lack of shared language around marketing roles and responsibilities, an over-indexing on tactics and copy edits— and they all lead to a revolving door of bad-fit marketers coming in and out of your organization.  

Devin and Margaret explore how to successfully hire for and manage a role that you’re not an expert in—on this episode of Don’t Say Content.

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Did you just get fired? Spend a bunch of money on a marketing project or campaign that didn’t work? 

It can feel like marketing failures are happening today at a higher rate than ever before. Markets are changing; buyer’s processes, decision-making, and budgets are in flux; and companies are switching up their marketing organizations and leadership. 

Devin and Margaret explore our own relationship with failure—and what you can do next—on this episode of Don’t Say Content. 

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Here's a bonus episode from Devin's conversation with Joei Chan on her post, Good Boss, Bad Boss. It's a meaty one where she share lots of secrets about being a good and bad boss, and stories from her time as the boss of all bosses (CEO).

Also, season 4 is dropping soon! We're kicking off season 4 on 2/6 with a live show on YouTube. You won't want to miss it. (And if it's past 2/6/24—press play already.)

Listen to Good Boss Bad Boss on Apple, on Spotify, or on YouTube (or wherever you get your podcasts).

Connect with Joei: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joeichan/

Produced in partnership with Share Your Genius

Have you missed us?! Don’t Say Content season 4 is coming back on February 6th, and we’d love for you join us—here on the feed or live, on Youtube.

We’re starting the season off on YouTube live on February 6th at noon ET. But don’t worry, we’ll drop the live show on the podcast feed if you can’t make it.

Wanna join us live? Check out our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=danFfrLz5XQ

(And set your notifications so you don’t forget!)

Otherwise, make sure you’re subscribed to the podcast so you don’t miss any of the new episodes.

Bonus episode time! Before season 4 drops, enjoy this bonus episode where Margaret joined Ramli John's Marketing Powerups podcast to talk about her strategic brand flywheel.

Like what you hear? Check out Ramli's podcast here: https://marketingpowerups.com/podcast/

For more from Devin + Margaret, head to dontsaycontent.com.

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

We're even less filtered than normal in our Season 3 finale, so buckle up: we’re talking about our challenges with gender inequity, patterns of entrenched misogyny, societal expectations, unhealthy boundaries, and reflections on how our careers are viewed by others in the industry.

Big life changes and challenges bring big reflections and feelings. They also spotlight challenges we’ve accepted and taken for granted, bringing a strikingly clear question to the fore: Why are we so afraid?

[NOTE: We’re continuing this convo and starting others during the holiday break on Substack. Follow along and participate: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/]

We’re afraid telling the truth will piss people off. We’re afraid of becoming a pariah: getting fired, being “unhireable”, and alienating our friends and colleagues. 

When faced with the opportunity to address interpersonal challenges that are rooted in systemic prejudice, inequity, and unfairness, a lot of us (yes, us too!!), we begin to doubt our experience is real and rationalize to avoid ruffling feathers. 

Nothing has actually changed, we’re sorry to say. The same misogyny, inequity, and bad behavior still exist, they’re just hidden in a black hole. Not behind or cloaked in something, they are an active part of our current societal galaxy, studied, written about, analyzed, and discussed. 

None of that has led to meaningful change. Worse: it’s given us the belief that change has happened, making us feel accomplished and comfortable, such that we accept a daily reality that still really sucks. 

What would happen if we stopped being afraid and angry and started approaching change with curiosity, bravery, compassion, and love? What if we had shared language around our challenges, including with the people who we are challenged by? 

It still won’t be easy. People will still get mad. Unfair things will still happen. But if all that’s happening already and nothing is changing, isn’t it time to step outside our comfort zone and try something new? 

Tune in for a heartfelt and vulnerable discussion around the real human issues we face today–as women, and as people. We hope to leave you with something to think about, and maybe a bit more shared language around these experiences.

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

What if we started looking at marketing as a business growth strategy instead of a promotional department? 

Devin and Margaret discuss the role Marketing plays in fundraising and investor board meetings. They explore how the current startup investing structure only widens the trust gap between CEOs and Marketing, including understanding the chasm and how that leads to wrong solutions that are often avoidable. 

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Q4 has begun, and the year is coming to a close. But you’re in overwhelm—from setting new goals for next year, setting the big vision for your strategy, and oh yeah—finishing out this year strong. But that overwhelm and busyness is not new to the B2B tech world.

Some of the problems that rear their heads in times like these are just that: nothing new. But that doesn’t mean they aren’t any easier to handle. Where do you find the right marketers to take your team to the next level? Where do you find creative, strategic ideas when you’re overwhelmed with the day-to-day? How do I enable my teams to act on our bigger mission and vision?

To help cut through the noise and overwhelm, Devin and Margaret asked their CEO & founder friends about what topics are keeping them up at night. Their answers will help bring you back to reality, center your actions around progress, and give you jumping-off points for solving these common problems.

Devin and Margaret channel their full consultative skills and reference their experience in similar situations and roles to answer these three main questions:

• How do you build a marketing team that buys into your bigger mission and vision? Not spammy tactics.
• How do you combat analysis paralysis in a small marketing department?
• How can you embrace and maximize the messiness of the marketplace right now? 

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

😱WHAT. A GUEST?! 😱 We said we weren’t doing an interview show, but we did need a hand with this week’s topic: how do visual mediums help achieve business growth, and what role do executives and team members outside the marketing team play in modern marketing strategy?

Rachel Downey, CEO and founder of Share Your Genius joins the show today to break down what companies actually want to do: create content that moves your company toward your growth goals and outcomes. 

Marketing is about influencing human behavior. Sharing stories from a business and human perspective helps brands connect with current and potential buyers through the experiences shared by folks across the team, including the executive suite. Visual media can increase the pace of connection by showing the humans behind it sharing their ideas, perspectives, answers, tips, or just joining a conversation. 

This should be music to the ears of executives and investors alike: media-led, community-focused approach to B2B sales and marketing removes the paradigm of “scale” and introduces a self-perpetuating cycle of high-converting, WOM-driven growth that costs less and sustains longer.

Take your hand off the wheel: self-driving marketing is here, and it looks nothing like the programmatic, scheduled, templatized content marketing of the past. 

Jump into the conversation:

(01:00) We’ve got a guest?!

(03:50) What’s up with creating a media brand?

(20:00) Nearbound 🤢Community 👍

(24:00) Setting the foundation of your story for max connection + growth

And we know you’re wondering—are we going to continue to have guests? Probably not. Are we going to have Rachel back on to talk about this topic some more? Probably. Stay tuned. 

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

In this episode, Devin Bramhall joins Ashley McGovern and Melissa Moody on their show, 2 Pizza Marketing.

Like what you hear? Check out their show here: https://www.2pizzamarketing.com/

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Newsflash: your lifeboat has a hole in it. Oh, and that life vest you’re wearing—lol. It doesn’t help when you’re sinking into an ocean of lava. 

No, we’re not talking about the apocalypse, we’re talking about what it takes to make your company survive in 2024 and beyond. If you’re reaching for familiar growth tactics, you’re putting your company at risk and missing the opportunities embedded in times of uncertainty and change. 

Here’s the deal: the only reason your playbooks worked before is because everything worked up until a year ago.

Smart business leaders see business strategy in chaos. They experiment and take risks to uncover unique opportunities to get ahead and they need their marketing and growth teams to support

From tactics to team-building, Devin and Margaret share insights on real-life examples and strategies to leave you reevaluating how (and if) you’ll pick up a playbook again.

Jump into the conversation:

(01:00) Oi with the playbooks already

(11:00) Should you future-proof?

(18:00) Playbooks & Building Teams

(30:30) Wrapped in a bow?

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Confusion. Miscommunication. Misunderstandings.  That’s what happens when marketers and business leaders use too many buzzwords. 

YET WE ALL KEEP USING THEM (us, too). Chaos agents disguised as trendy trifles that we claim to aid in communicating our marketing plans and getting buy-in from CEOs, clients, and teams. Poppycock! 

Don’t use buzzwords, say what you mean, otherwise, you’re just perpetuating a broken system where:

• The C-suite doesn’t trust marketers
• Marketers struggle to get buy-in from C-suite
• Lots of money is wasted on team overhauls, constant changes in strategy
• Progress stalls because you keep going in circles

Join Devin and Margaret as they dissect the problems that buzzwords create and the threats they pose to businesses. 

• how leadership latches on to trends, 
• how to incorporate these “strategies” into business goals, 
• lack of alignment and mutual understanding that founders, CEOs, and heads of marketing alike experience as a result of buzzword salads

Plus some bonus advice may or may not be helpful, but it came out in the convo, so we’re sharing it with you anyway.

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

We’ve got a sweet treat for you this week: a deep dive into Halloween candy, horror movies, and a deep analysis into how much Margaret pumpkin spice lattes in the fall vs summer months. 

…And we continue our convo about the marketing gig economy and how fear-based decisions are causing marketers and leaders to miss the huge opportunity in front of them: Chaos.

No more social “town square”; folks have scattered to small communities across platforms. For now, marketing budgets are anemic and it is taking longer to close deals. But, within these and other realities are opportunities for marketing freelancers AND companies. 

• Freelancers are in demand because companies are afraid to commit due to lack of certainty in the market
• Companies can make the most of their budget by creating hyper-focused plans and hiring freelancers to serve only those immediate needs 

Forget the headline hype. Pull a Jennifer Connolly and flick away those inaccurate categorizations of the current moment, think for yourself, and tell that hairy fear monster: “You have no power over me.”

When you’re done, have yourself some candy corns, watch The Monster Squad, drink a pumpkin spice latte, and you’ll see: when the playbook stops working and nothing is as it used to be, you’re in the best place possible to level up your career and company. 

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Times of chaos can be huge opportunities for companies who are open to thinking outside the playbooks and frameworks they’re familiar with. 

Leaders who approach current industry and economic challenges with curiosity and bravery will find themselves uniquely positioned to win. It’s time to get scrappy!

This includes how marketing leaders plan for growth on limited budgets and even more scrutiny from investors, CFOs, and CEOs. These days, a good marketing strategy looks a lot more like a business strategy, and that’s a good thing. 

How come? 

• The same old tactics aren’t as effective based on a cultural shift in focus to individuals over brands
• We’re living in a decentralized online social era, which is ultimately a good thing for brands, but short-term means a more hands-on approach and recalibration of how companies measure ROI
• Marketing talent is mediocre and they likely won’t be competitive until after they go through operating in a tough economy  

What companies need most right now is a strategic growth plan optimized for short-term impact, flexibility, and efficiency. That’s where outsourced marketing partners shine a much-needed bright light on dark times. 

 Join your hosts, Devin Bramhall and Margaret Kelsey, as they explore the untapped potential outside of the traditional in-house marketing setup. 

Jump into the conversation:

(10:30) The Freelancer Takeover

(15:30) Understanding Leaders’ Challenges

(18:45) Burnt out? Move on.

(25:00) Our Consultant Recipe

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Moments of chaos are moments of opportunity. That is your marketing mantra heading into 2024. 

In this conversation, Devin and Margaret cut through the chaos that is the present-day marketing landscape to offer marketing leaders a bit of clarity. The key to your company’s strategic growth may not be as complicated as you think. It isn’t another tool in your tech stack, there’s no AI hack, and it’s not something you can gather pixel data on.

Are you ready for this? The answer is… your network. It’s your community and like-minded human beings who may be interested in your brand or product.

Especially in the rat race atmosphere of the VC-backed B2B startup, pressure to achieve meteoric growth at all costs blinds marketers, founders, and the rest of the c-suite to sane, sustainable goals—solutions to growth that don’t require endless budget and a dizzying mix of marketing channels paving the halls of your sales funnel. Lazy girl marketing, if you will.

Jump into the conversation:

(03:00) Why We’re Talking About Community

(13:00) Referral Partnerships for the Win

(24:00) VC’s Missed Opportunity

(36:00) Time to Experiment

(42:00) Stop Measuring by Channel

If you’re ready to take a breather, get back to basics, and create your own job security, tune in to this episode for some real talk and reassurance.

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Most of us used the wrong criteria when we evaluated job opportunities at some point in our careers. 

You know what they are: reactive, emotion-driven departures. Being lured by pay without evaluating the health of the company. Taking a lateral move at a company based on a promise that - if we were looking at the situation objectively we’d know—never results in the upward motion or promotion we were promised. 

The list is long. 

Then comes this point where you not only see the whole game board, but you stop judging it, which frees up your headspace for objective evaluation and strategic career planning. And that’s when things really take off. 

Today we’re tackling a listener question: how do you know when it’s time to leave your job? 

Join Devin Bramhall and Margaret Kelsey as they examine their own career trajectories to extract the decisions that helped them move up to senior-level marketing roles, CEO and then to successful consulting careers.

• Short-term versus long-term—what choices will get you closer to your career objectives? 
• Do you even know what you want? 
• Strategic mindset: aligning your career objectives with the organization to accelerate your progress.
• The crucial role that discomfort plays in your career and how to make it your strategic advantage.

Jump into the conversation:

04:00 Title vs. salary: what matters more?

13:00 Values Influence Leadership Decisions

25:30 When Margaret Almost Missed an Opportunity

The TL;DR? Devin and Margaret want to urge you to analyze opportunities based on personal goals and values, advocating for a more logical and data-driven approach to job decisions rather than simply complaining about current situations. So join us for a discussion that will leave you encouraged to reflect on your career choices, embrace change, and pursue your goals with confidence and clarity.

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Did you attend this year’s HubSpot Inbound conference?

Whether you did or not, Devin and Margaret are here to break down the highlights of everyone's favorite marketing conference. What did they take away? What was their favorite part? (And maybe even spill a little tea about where they leave room for improvement, too.)

From juicy behind-the-scenes details of being a speaker at one of the top marketing conferences to tried-and-true conference strategies, this episode will have you both laughing and learning as Devin and Margaret reflect on their time at Inbound together.

In this episode, we’ll explore:

The power of thinking outside the booth: Devin and Margaret dish on why getting a booth might not be the best move for your event marketing strategy. Discover out-of-the-box ideas that will raise eyebrows and set you apart from the sea of sponsors.

Throw your own party: Who needs a boring sponsored event when you can throw a bar takeover?! Learn how brands grabbed attention, engaged marketers, and made lasting connections (with free drinks—you love to see it). 

Secrets from the green room: Devin and Margaret talk VIP experience for speakers and conference attendees alike, while also discussing some of their favorite backstage marketing efforts they’ve seen and executed—including a backstage video series at Appcues, where they tapped into the adrenaline-fueled minds of speakers post-presentation.

Jump into the conversation:

03:10 VIP vs. Regular Ticket

05:30 Community Over Everything

10:45 Best & Worst Conference Event Marketing Strategies

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Is the marketing industry better or worse off in today’s day and age based on the fact that we have access to more data than we could ever possibly report on?

They share stories of the good and bad ways they’ve seen data used to adjust marketing programs, the power of data in marketing experimentation, and share hot takes they gathered from their friends in the industry.

Since we have so many data points across platforms and initiatives, there’s so much to interpret and use to make decisions. The themes of this podcast can also be summed up in a few questions to help you think about data in your marketing execution:

• Are you using reporting to tell an effective story?
• Can you categorize your marketing goals and results into vital and experimental categories?
• Are you using your data to inform what programs you’re keeping and cutting?

So press play to hear Devin and Margaret dive into the relationship between data and marketing success.

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

We asked, you answered. What are your least favorite marketing jargon terms?

Sourced from our loyal community on LinkedIn, hosts Devin Bramhall and Margaret Kelsey discuss some of the most used marketing terms in the industry today, challenging marketers and executives to move beyond “strategic” and “evergreen” as descriptors of your efforts. And in Devin’s own words, “Say what you actually mean.”

But don’t worry, Devin and Margaret know they aren’t exempt from this industry-wide communication plague. Margaret offers up some of her most-used buzzwords, and they work together to break down what she’s trying to convey when she says “sexy” in a business strategy context. They also dive into why content is their top do-not-say word and how these words become almost meaningless. 

Listen in for:

• Ways to communicate beyond overused buzzwords
• Why prioritizing people-first content moves us away from buzzword trends and into a more authentic marketing industry
• Hot takes and listener submissions to make you laugh about the terms we’ve come to hear too often

Subscribe to our newsletter for bonus content: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius

An award-winning podcast production company working with the largest B2B brands to drive engagement, and retention: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Amplified by Casted

Podcast and video marketing platform for B2B brands to grow their audience and impact the bottom line: https://www.casted.us/

Marketing by Kristina Carson

Digital marketing and social media expert. https://www.kristinacarson.com/

We’re back for season 3 with a topic sent in by a listener: the relationship between sales and marketing.

Fraught relationship or not, there is so much opportunity and growth when these teams are aligned. So why is it so hard to make that happen?

Devin and Margaret challenge leaders to bridge the communication gap with their sales counterparts, and challenge marketers to gain an understanding of how to extract crucial customer information from sales conversations, build exclusive content offers that drive engagement, and collaborate effectively to achieve growth objectives.

With thought-provoking discussions on the evolving landscape of account-based marketing, event strategies, and the importance of aligning goals and responsibilities, this episode leaves marketing leaders with plenty to ponder, including:

• Why marketing + sales have to be aligned from the top down
• The power of effective marketing (dangling carrots) that sales can actually use
• Ideas for how marketing + sales can work together for real impact

Subscribe to our newsletter for bonus content: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius

An award-winning podcast production company working with the largest B2B brands to drive engagement,and retention: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Amplified by Casted

Podcast and video marketing platform for B2B brands to grow their audience and impact the bottom line: https://www.casted.us/

Marketing by Kristina Carson

Digital marketing and social media expert. https://www.kristinacarson.com/

In this replay episode, we're revisiting lessons we've learned around failure.

Did you just get fired? Spend a bunch of money on a marketing project or campaign that didn’t work? 

It can feel like marketing failures are happening today at a higher rate than ever before. Markets are changing; buyer’s processes, decision-making, and budgets are in flux; and companies are switching up their marketing organizations and leadership. 

Devin and Margaret explore our own relationship with failure—and what you can do next—on this episode of Don’t Say Content. 

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

In this bonus episode, Devin Bramhall and Margaret Kelsey sit down with Rachel Downey, CEO and Founder of Share Your Genius (their production company) to reflect back on how the podcast came to be, how transformative it has been for themselves and their personal brands, and how this podcast has helped move them past their fear.

And don’t worry, there are some solid asides too. You won’t want to miss hearing about the episode that got cut. 😉Press play for a look back and a look forward in the world of Don’t Say Content and B2B podcasting.

Connect with Rachel Downey: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachelelstsdowney/

Listen to her podcast, Voicemails with Rachel: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/voicemails-with-rachel/id1648953137

 Check out Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

We’re back with a bonus episode to hold you over until season 3 drops in September of 2023!

What are your guesses for how many times our hosts Devin and Margaret said the word “content” during season 2? Hint, it’s over 50. 🤯

Devin and Margaret reveal the total number and more in this episode, including teasing what’s coming up for season 3, reflecting on the original premise of Don’t Say Content, and sharing a few times where saying the word “content” was actually warranted (that might also double as a shame reel).

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Here’s a bonus episode where our host, Margaret Kelsey, joined Exit Five, hosted by Dave Gerhardt. 

Layoffs, budget cuts, slower sales cycles, and a lack of urgency to buy your product right now. That's become normal in B2B SaaS over the last two quarters. But what does it mean for marketer? Do nothing? Just play defense? Yeah right. Marketers are being asked to do more with less, and if you're one of those marketers this is a session you don't want to miss. Dave is joined by Margaret Kelsey (Founder of TatCo, Marketing Advisor), Jason Widup (VP Marketing, Metadata), and Shauntle Barley (Director of Marketing, Demandwell) to talk about the state of B2B marketing in Q2 2023 and helpful ideas for driving growth in a down economy. 

Listen to Exit Five: https://www.exitfive.com/podcast

Follow Dave: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davegerhardt/

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to the Don’t Say Content newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

The relationship between Founders/CEOs and their heads of marketing is broken. 

The Boss doesn’t understand how marketing works, so they micromanage their marketing leaders into poor performance. Marketing leaders struggle to communicate value because much of their work isn’t tied directly to revenue and they don’t always know how to speak to the business metrics and challenges that matter to The Boss. 

This tension at the executive level leads to wasted money, slowed company growth, and more recently: record CMO turnover in 2023 and a stagnation in B2B Marketing strategy (and efficacy) due to a hamster wheel of starting from scratch. 

In this episode, Devin and Margaret share stories from their experiences working with founders/CEOs in-house and agency-side over the last decade. Some bigger themes they cover are:

• The importance of shared language and understanding of metrics
• How communication and trust impact the CEO/head of marketing relationship
• The balance between brand and funnel-building initiatives
• Why CEOs and founders should step back from leading marketing departments

Plus Devin shares what she learned from being CEO and working with her marketing team, as well as anonymous stories from their clients (you know it’s juicy when Devin and Margaret aren’t sharing names). 

The spicy takes are abundant in this one—proceed with caution. 😉We’re sending off season 2 with a bang. We’ll be back in September 2023!

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Sponsored by Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com/

Have you ever had one of those days where you just don't feel like doing anything? Or maybe a deadline is looming, but it's not quite here yet, so you're putting it off? You just can’t seem to make your brain do what it needs to?

Devin and Margaret jump into their shared insights into what motivates them and how they tackle obstacles to rise above the pernicious "shoulds" in their life. The act of inventory-ing the “shoulds” and deciding what is actually key to forward progress is crucial. We call this ruthless prioritization (or as we’ve called it in the past, killing your darlings). Identifying the 20% of work that delivers 80% of the results is essential and cutting out anything that aligns differently from your priorities. 

Get their personal stories on how leadership can craft a more helpful work structure to maximize motivation and the importance of building trust with your leaders to make that happen. Devin shares a hysterical college story about procrastinating until she had a spark of inspiration. You won’t want to miss this one.

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Sponsored by Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com/

The Year is 2014. The article title is 7 Tips For Cooking The Perfect Marry-Me Chicken. You wade past the thick veil of misogyny, but the stench of grifting just won’t go away. The first tip is to Check Your Local Grocery Store For Sales, with an affiliate link listing nearby sale produce.

Flash forward to 2023. You’re scrolling through LinkedIn and belligerent posts about AI flood your feed. You search for the earnest, meaningful comment furthering the conversation, but all you see are grifters masquerading as “thought leaders”, piling onto the conversation like those zombies climbing over the wall in World War Z.

In the early 2010s, the listicle had a chokehold on the way we wrote content for the Internet. Add all the keywords, the affiliate links, and make them spend MORE time on page.

Today, in the era of trending audios and runaway LinkedIn virality, it seems like the Internet not only wants but NEEDS your griftiest ideas. But even at the mercy of The Algorithm, there’s an authenticity that you can see and feel in good writers and creators even while executing the trendiest of trends. We’re not really sure how you’ll like this episode, but we hope it starts an honest conversation.

See you on LinkedIn?

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Sponsored by Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com/ 

The market has rapidly evolved over the last few years. What worked 5 years ago isn’t working as well as it used to, and we’re seeing signs of more “traditional marketing” fading into the background in the B2B space. So what can we do to increase our chances of success? Where is the future of content headed?

Our hosts, Devin Bramhall and Margaret Kelsey dive into their thoughts on what is working currently, how we can all capitalize on technology and existing marketing tactics, and where the future of content is going.

Here’s a quick hit of their takeaways:

• Focus on personal brands and insights attached to lived experiences. Create authentic and relatable content that speaks to the experiences of your target audience. Use your own personal story and expertise to add value. 
• Future-proof your ideas and solutions. Create content that will continue to be relevant even as the market changes. Use a media-first strategy to publish your content on a variety of platforms through a variety of people. 
• Now is the time to experiment. We’re moving away from an owned audience approach—lean into building out channel-specific content to really connect with your audience on their chosen platform.

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Sponsored by Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com/ 

The People-First movement in workplace culture has risen in popularity over the past several years and ushered in the concept of bringing your “whole self” to work. It aims to prioritize the well-being and satisfaction of employees. But does bringing your whole self to work truly benefit you and your colleagues? And do you truly want *everyone* to bring their whole self? Your boss, your CEO, etc - does it make you feel more safe knowing every part of everyone at the company? 

Several challenges arise when whole self to work:

1. Unrealistic expectations
2. Increased entitlement
3. Lack of accountability
4. Inequity and division
5. Decision-making challenges

As our hosts Margaret Kelsey and Devin Bramhall dive into the people-first movement, they explore what policies actually put employees first, what amount of transparency is too much, how leaders influence the people-first movement, and how all of this is impacted by the remote and hybrid work environments that are much more common today. 

One thing they know for sure? Choosing to bring your best self to work each day is your best bet for your career growth. 

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Sponsored by Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com/

Over the past 5 years—and especially in 2023—hiring in every industry has been turned upside down.

Marketers want to know what has changed, and what has stayed the same. What goes on behind the scenes of hiring the best marketers? How do marketing execs evaluate cover letters and resumes? What are they thinking about and evaluating during various phases of the interview process? 

Margaret Kelsey (VP of Marketing at Openview, Director of Brand and Creative at Invision) and Devin Bramhall (former CEO of Animalz, Director of Content at Help Scout) share their hiring secrets. 

• Revealing how marketing execs are thinking about total compensation and benefits 
• How marketers’ skills are evaluated, from experience, KPIs, and the ever-controversial marketing project 
• How to research and negotiate the best salary
• What hiring teams, marketing managers, and execs are looking for in cover letters and resumes

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Sponsored by Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com/ 

The world of creativity is multifaceted. How do you tap into it? How do you use it effectively? And how do you enjoy it?

B2B marketing execs Margaret Kelsey (VP of Marketing at OpenView, Director of Brand and Creative at InVision) and Devin Bramhall (former CEO of Animalz, Director of Content at Help Scout) explore the multidimensional nature of creativity and how it can be unlocked through various means. From taking breaks and pursuing fun activities to pushing through exhaustion with set goals and rewards, they detail their creative journey and the many strategies they use to generate ideas. 

From reading fiction to Jane Fonda, Devin and Margaret talk about the different pathways that have inspired their own creativity, ultimately leading to deeper insights into human emotion and complexity. They also touch on the human tendency to seek neat conclusions and how leaving things open-ended can improve memory retention.

Dive in for a creativity ride—the many ways of creative experimentation and exploration will leave you wanting to get your hands dirty.

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/t

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Sponsored by Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com/

We’ve talked about a lot of things the past 17 episodes—so where have we landed among the strategies and thoughts and endless fodder around the “state of marketing” at the end of this season? Well, we can tell you we’re looking forward to some genuine human connection and fostering authentic content creation in the coming months more than we are into slangin’ the same old worries we’ve been talking about (idk, marketing/exec alignment, AI takeovers, and old school marketing strategies, to name a few). 

So tune in for a snorkel (not a deep dive) through the topics we’ve covered in season 4, and we hope you’ll stay tuned in for some bonus content to come before season 5 drops this fall. Catch ya later, you jerks. 😉

Resources: 

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.dontsaycontent.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

It's bonus episode time!

Our host, Devin Bramhall joined David Khim, Co-Founder of Omniscent Digital, on Onmiscent's podcast, The Long Game. They discuss Devin's rise from content manager to CEO, the future of AI, content marketing, and leadership lessons, where Devin reflects on lessons learned from mistakes she's made along the way.

Listen to The Long Game: https://beomniscient.com/blog/category/the-long-game/

Connect with David: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidlykhim/

Why can founders and CEOs let marketers do their jobs? From cutting marketing projects mid-flight, to not clearly defining goals or changing KPIs on a whim, founders and CEOs continue to mettle in marketing. Why does this keep happening?

Last season we talked about what’s wrong with marketers and the marketing industry. It’s time we flipped the script and put the spotlight on founders and CEOs.

B2B marketing execs Margaret Kelsey (VP of Marketing at OpenView, Director of Brand and Creative at InVision) and Devin Bramhall (former CEO of Animalz, Director of Content at Help Scout) break down all the pitfalls they’ve seen in the marketer-founder relationship. Listen in to hear their stories and helpful strategies (like a shared decision-making framework) to help you navigate the founder-marketer relationship. 

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/t

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Sponsored by Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com/

What if community wasn't a strategy? What if a community was part of your business model? What if it was just part of doing business?

Community isn’t just about building a customer feedback loop or customer support center. And more importantly, it’s not a place to spread your message like a megaphone to your audience. Many founders get this wrong because their head is stuck in scale mode. 

B2B marketing execs Margaret Kelsey (VP of Marketing at Openview, Director of Brand and Creative at Invision) and Devin Bramhall (former CEO of Animalz, Director of Content at Help Scout) discuss how community and what we can glean from it as we head into 2023 and beyond. 

Resources:

Nassim Taleb Article: https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15#.hr22nda85

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/t

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Sponsored by Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com/

Quality content is a north star for companies, founders, CEOs and marketers alike. But few agree on what “quality” means. Those who do have a definition are often missing important criteria that can lead to ineffective marketing content that flops despite following their “quality” rules. 

Quality as it relates to content and marketing is relative because it isn't just about the perfection of what you are creating in your marketing strategy. Quality in marketing is also determined by how effective the content you’re producing is impacting company growth. 

Listen to top B2B marketing execs, Margaret Kelsey (VP of Marketing at Openview, Director of Brand and Creative at Invision) and Devin Bramhall (former CEO of Animalz, Director of Content at Help Scout) set the record straight on what quality means and how to achieve it.

Connect with Devin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devinbramhall/

Connect with Margaret: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-kelsey-104abba/t

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://dontsaycontent.substack.com/

Created in partnership with Share Your Genius: https://www.shareyourgenius.com/

Sponsored by Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com/