Why do documentary subjects freeze for a professional camera - but open up to an iPhone?

Robin Canfield shares why he films with iPhones, how he teaches documentary in twenty countries, and the communication skill he says every documentary filmmaker overlooks.

Robin joins us from Saigon, Vietnam, during a four-week documentary program with international students. He shares why he switched from Canon cameras to phones, how his crews rebuild story structure at 1 AM using sticky notes on a wall, what happened the day a government minder followed him into a Hoi An coffee shop, and why he thinks communication is the skill every documentary filmmaker overlooks.

— Why documentary subjects freeze in front of professional cameras but open up around Phones

— How Robin and his students have produced more than 200 short documentaries in 20+ countries

— The paper-cut editing method Robin uses when the timeline on the computer isn’t telling the story

— Why communication may matter more than any gear you buy

— How to film ethically in countries where you're a guest, and what to do when the government is watching

— Why Robin screens every film locally before leaving, so the people in the story can see it first

— How Actuality Abroad started with a coffee cooperative story in Guatemala

— How a journalism background becomes a foundation for documentary filmmaking

— Why filmmakers can’t wait for someone to fund their work anymore

— What Robin means when he says "everyone is a storyteller, and everyone could be a better one"

0:00 Introduction

1:11 Robin in Saigon — the Documentary Outreach program

2:52 Growing up with a camera — Dad’s darkroom

5:35 Journalism at Oregon State

7:31 Founding Actuality Abroad — the Guatemala test run

11:34 Writing Purpose Driven Documentaries

15:49 Why Robin switched from Canon cameras to iPhones

16:32 Why subjects freeze for cameras and relax around phones

17:04 Filmmaking is a craft you learn by doing

21:21 Everyone is a storyteller

24:42 Documentary filmmaking is problem solving

25:54 International production and visa logistics

29:32 The government watcher in a Vietnam coffee shop

34:50 The paper-cut editing method

39:13 Rights, Creative Commons, and protecting films

42:43 The Edinburgh tavern — being American abroad

45:06 Learning to crowdfund and ask for what you need

48:42 DocuView Deja Vu: The Pez Outlaw

Robin Canfield: The Pez Outlaw (Netflix, 2022)

Robin Canfield is the co-founder and Director of Global Operations at Actuality Abroad, a media-centered study abroad program that has produced more than 200 short documentaries in 20+ countries. He trains his crews on iPhones with Tilta rigs, not traditional cinema cameras. He is the author of Purpose Driven Documentaries: A Field Guide to Creating Impact (Focal Press), a textbook for students and storytellers making social impact documentaries. He grew up around his father’s darkroom, studied journalism at Oregon State University, and has been a photographer and filmmaker most of his life. Based in Orlando, Florida.

“Los Maestros del Mañana” - Los Maestros del Mañana - July/August 2025, San Miguel de Allende, Mexico - Documentary Outreach (4 week program)

“Welcome to La Perseverancia” - Welcome to La Perseverancia - May 2025, Bogota, Colombia - Field Study (custom program with 10 adult former-foster-care-youth from Chicago)

“What Feeds Us” - What Feeds Us - January/February 2025, Bangkok, Thailand - Documentary Outreach (4 week program)

“Anything is Possible” - Anything is Possible - July/August 2024, Tangier, Morocco - Documentary Outreach (4 week program)

“Seeds for the Future” - Seeds for the Future - July, 2024, Uaxactún, Guatemala - Storytelling Expedition (2 week program in the Maya jungle in Guatemala)

Actuality Abroad is a media-centered study abroad program that pairs filmmaking students with NGOs and social enterprises around the world. Since its founding, the program has produced over 200 short documentaries in more than 20 countries, including Guatemala, Colombia, Thailand, Indonesia, Mexico, Ecuador, and Vietnam. Students work in small crews, follow a full pre-production and editing curriculum, and screen their finished films locally before leaving each country.

— Purpose Driven Documentaries: A Field Guide to Creating Impact by Robin Canfield (Focal Press)

— The Pez Outlaw (Netflix, 2022)

— The Cove (2009)

— Poverty Inc. (2014)

Apple Podcasts: tinyurl.com/DocFirstApple

Spotify: tinyurl.com/DocFirstSpotify

YouTube: tinyurl.com/DocFirstYouTube

Amazon Music: tinyurl.com/DocFirstAmazon

Support the show on Patreon: tinyurl.com/DocFirstPatreon

Actuality Abroad: actualityabroad.com

Actuality Abroad on Vimeo and YouTube — search "Actuality Abroad"

Connect with Christian Taylor on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/meetchristiantaylor

All Documentary First platforms: linktr.ee/doc1st

Someone tried to harvest Christian's voice for AI training. The pitch was polished, the project sounded real. But when she responded with ten professional questions, the conversation ended. Permanently.

In this Deep Dive on Episode 275, Christian connects that experience to her conversation with Erik and Christopher Ewers, the brothers behind the PBS documentary Henry David Thoreau. Chris Ewers argues that every technological revolution has felt like the end of the world — the Industrial Revolution, digital cameras, and now AI. Each time the tool became indispensable. Then Christian pulls in Thoreau himself — the man who railed against the railroad and then rode the train 70 times. He used the tool deliberately.

• The full story of the suspicious voice-over job offer and the ten questions that ended it.
• Why Christian’s VO business is declining while her filmmaking and podcasting are thriving.
• Chris Ewers’s case for why AI is the digital camera revolution all over again.
• Thoreau’s “cost of a thing” quote and why it hits differently in the age of AI.
• The contradiction of Thoreau and the train — and what “live deliberately” actually means now.
• Jeff Goldblum at the mic and George Clooney saying “tell me if I suck” — what AI will never replace.

0:00 What George Clooney Told the Directors

0:18 Show open

0:28 The Ethan Caldwell story

2:33 Where I stand with AI

3:49 The Ewers Brothers and the revolution that always comes

5:09 Clip: Chris Ewers on AI and the digital camera revolution

7:15 Thoreau, technology, and the train he swore he’d never ride

9:25 What “live deliberately” actually means

9:44 What Ethan Caldwell’s silence reveals

10:45 Goldblum, Clooney, and what machines can’t replicate

11:59 Closing

Apple Podcasts: tinyurl.com/DocFirstApple

Spotify: tinyurl.com/DocFirstSpotify

YouTube: tinyurl.com/DocFirstYouTube

Amazon Music: tinyurl.com/DocFirstAmazon

Support the show on Patreon: tinyurl.com/DocFirstPatreon

Erik Ewers: Director, Editor. Ken Burns’s senior editor for 33+ years. Multiple Emmy winner. Based in New Hampshire.

Christopher Loren Ewers: Director, DP. 20+ years behind the camera. Based in the NYC metro area.

A three-part, three-hour documentary. Executive produced by Ken Burns and Don Henley. Narrated by George Clooney. Voices by Jeff Goldblum (Thoreau), Ted Danson (Emerson), Meryl Streep, and Tate Donovan. Available now on PBS and PBS Documentaries on Amazon.

Henry David Thoreau (PBS, 2026) | Walden by Henry David Thoreau (1854)

Hear Part 1: Episode 274, “I Didn’t Know Myself: Erik & Chris Ewers on Ken Burns, PBS & Thoreau”

Hear Part 2: Episode 275, "Erik & Chris Ewers on PBS Funding, AI & Directing Goldblum, Clooney & Streep"

Ewers Brothers: ewersbrothers.com

Erik Ewers: @melonhd | linkedin.com/in/erik-ewers-38122729

Chris Ewers: @christopher_loren_ewers_dp | linkedin.com/in/christopherewers

Christian Taylor: @meetchristiantaylor I linkedin.com/in/meetchristiantaylor

All platforms: linktr.ee/doc1st

Virgil Films founder Joe Amodei shares the hard truth: $250K is your budget ceiling, traditional marketing no longer is effective, and you must build your own audience.

Joe has distributed films from the VHS era through streaming. In this episode, he breaks down which documentary genres actually sell (true crime, health/wellness, and ones that make us feel good—not adventure docs anymore), why 90% of his acquisitions come through referrals, and what separates films that make money from films that don’t. Plus: the 2025 Oscar nominations and Joe’s surprise announcement!

DocuView Déjà Vu:

Train Dreams, 2025, 102 mins, Watch on Netflix, IMDB Link: Train Dreams (2025) ⭐ 7.5 | Drama

The Alabama Solution, 2025, 117 mins, Watch on Disney+/Hulu, HBO Max, IMDB Link: The Alabama Solution (2025) ⭐ 7.8 | Documentary

What You’ll Learn:

• The maximum budget for an indie doc that can actually recoup ($250K—tops)

• Which genres sell: true crime → health/wellness → inspirational

Why adventure/mountain climbing docs have stopped working

The 90-minute cat video compilation that sold out a 252-seat theater

• TVOD vs AVOD: when to release on Tubi vs. keeping it on paid platforms

• What successful filmmakers do differently (hint: audience building before release)

• Why traditional film marketing—print ads, TV spots, newspaper reviews—is dead

Timestamps:

00:00 Introduction

03:03 Joe praises Documentary First’s growth (Ken Burns, Billy Joel doc)

04:55 Announcing Documentary First: The Deep Dive

06:50 Joe’s career: VHS through streaming, Turner, Polygram, USA Home Entertainment

08:02 Why podcasts have become essential for film discovery

15:41 The budget question: $250K maximum for indie docs

17:06 Documentary genres ranked: what sells, what doesn’t

21:40 The cat video phenomenon: 90 minutes, sold-out theater

25:23 2025 Oscar nominations discussion

31:58 What successful filmmakers do differently

41:20 Common mistakes: no homework, no identified audience, overspending

50:48 Distribution pathway: transactional → SVOD → AVOD explained

1:00:29 Joe’s surprise announcement

About Joe Amodei: Founder of Virgil Films, one of the leading independent distributors in the US. 40+ year career spanning Turner Broadcasting, Polygram, and USA Home Entertainment (Traffic, Being John Malkovich). Distributor of The Girl Who Wore Freedom. Website: Home (New)

If you’re enjoying the show, please subscribe and leave a review!

Virgil Films (@VirgilFilms) on X

Virgil Films and Entertainment

Virgil Films (@virgilfilms) • Instagram profile

Sponsor: Virgil Films http://www.virgilfilms.com/

Support us by buying merch or watching our films: https://documentaryfirst.com/

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This episode originally aired on November 26th, 2021. It's a re-airing of a special Thanksgiving episode at the time Documentary First was pitching to distributors like Netflix in Los Angeles and before our Carentan sizzle reel was finished! - - We recollect favorite thanksgiving movies and general thanksgiving. Christian has studio updates and shares future plans with streaming platform, Vudu. We're thankful for all our subscribers and Patreon supporters!

Watch "The Girl Who Wore Freedom" this Thanksgiving: https://geni.us/TheGirlWhoWoreFreedom

Special guest (for the second time) Joe Amodei gives us a history lesson, starting in the 50's & 60's with Bing Crosby & Jerry Lewis, then moving on to the 80's with VHS tapes. Joe shares how he started working at a video store and moved into distribution. He went from building other peoples businesses to building his own personal distribution company, starting with "Supersize Me". Christian shares about the timing of the release of "The Girl Who Wore Freedom" available for video-on-demand on November 1st and about recent in-person events (speaking tour).

DocuView Déjà Vu:

Jason: "Why You Should Watch Experimental Docs" (Video Essay) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_Syn8obfyM

Robbie: "Closed for Storm" (2020) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11372428/?ref_=fn_al_tt_0

Christian: "Travelin' Band: Creedence Clearwater Revival at the Royal Albert Hall" (2022) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt21053478/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

Joe: "Sidney" (2020) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt16977750/?ref_=fn_al_tt_0

How do you tell a story when the protagonist is a place? Our very own script-writer, Zach Callaghan, says "identity and purpose" are the two big things he looks for. Listen to his process of taking footage shot back in June 2022 for the Carentan project and developing it into a story.

DocuView Déjà Vu:

Christian:

The Martha Mitchell Effect (2022) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt16379454

They'll Love Me When I'm Dead (2018) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6893836/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0

Jason:

The Greatest Beer Run Ever (2015) This is a companion documentary to the feature by the same name. YouTube Link: https://youtu.be/D4WAUmyKDq0

Robbie:

The Wrecking Crew (2008) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1185418/

Zach:

F for Fake (1973) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072962/

There has been a team shuffle. Jason Rugg is now in the host seat with Robbie Davis joining Christian and Jason.

Christian gives an update before an impromptu "symposium" on story. Life is never linear or straight forward. Christian shares from her heart about the topsy-turviness of life with family and balancing work and priorities/commitments made that need to be honored.

Much gratitude was given in the midst of a successful roller coaster event at the 2022 Currahee Military Weekend.

Questions discussed: What makes a good story? How do you find a story in the midst of all the information and conversations?

There are many treasures to be gleaned from this conversation. Get ready to exercise your cheek muscles. :-)

DocuView Déjà Vu:

Jason: Brent Forrester's TV Comedy Course https://www.brentforrester.com/webinar

Robbie: Undefeated (2011) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1860355/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0

Christian: The Mystery of Marilyn Monroe: The Unheard Tapes (2022) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt19034332/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0

Today we’re joined by a special guest, but first an update! The Girl Who Wore Freedom will be available on many streaming services soon, thanks to Virgil Films. We discuss E&O Insurance, and then dive into an update about The Documentary First Podcast.

Judith Pearson Official Website: https://judithlpearson.com/books/the-wolves-at-the-door/

Virginia Hall: The True Story of America's Greatest Female Spy: https://www.ouramericanstories.com/podcast/history/virginia-hall-the-true-story-of-america-s-greatest-female-spy

DocuView Déjà Vu:

Robbie: The Sparks Brothers (2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8610436/

Jason’s: The Rescue (2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9098872

Christian: Count me In (2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6889042

Today we discuss "The Bear" and "Kobra Kai", then jump into discussing the current state of Christian’s next project: funding and budgets!

DocuView Déjà Vu:

Josh’s: Hands on a Hardbody: The Documentary (1997) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116481/

Jason’s: Obi Wan Kenobi: A Jedi’s Return (2022) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt21860836/

Christian’s: Lucy and Desi (2022) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12971802/

Christian has some exciting updates about the Carentan sizzle reel and The Brave Dutch! Also, she recently had a wonderful time zooming in alongside Michèle Phoenix at a screening held at Documentary First's long-time friend, Laura Priebe's, church. If you are interested in live events, you can email Christan@documentaryfirst.com.

Tickets for Currahee Military Museum, Toccoa, GA, September 29 event Adult: https://www.toccoahistory.com/storeandmemberships/the-girl-who-wore-freedom-adult-ticket-10 Student or Child: https://www.toccoahistory.com/storeandmemberships/the-girl-who-wore-freedom-student-or-child

DocuView Déjà Vu:

Christian's: Bob Ross: Happy Accidents, Betrayal & Greed (2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt14539744/

Staying afloat selling a movie has its own set of troubles. This week we celebrate the small wins! The Girl Who Wore Freedom is one step closer to being represented by Virgil Films. Also, new connections introduce new ways of producing income.

DocuView Déjà Vu:

Christian's: Perfect Bid: The Contestant Who Knew Too Much (2017): www.imdb.com/title/tt6854248

Josh's: Light & Magic (2022): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt19896784/

Jason's: The G Word with Adam Conover (2022): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13649532/

Today we’re joined by Christian, Josh and Jason! We talk through Christian’s new distribution deal, Error and Omission Insurance and in person screenings of the film!

DocuView Déjà Vu:

Josh’s: The Staircase (2022): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11324406/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0

The Staircase (2004): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0388644/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_3

Christian’s: Made you Look: A True Story About Fake Art (2020): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11994750/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0

Jason’s: The Inside Outtakes - Bo Burnham (2022): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XWEVoI40sE

RRR: Rise Roar Revolt (2022)(Not a documentary): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8178634/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0

Christian is looking for new ways to distribute her film even as her team starts focusing on other projects. Josh wonders how much value there is in putting energy into a film that has already run its course in the film circuit.

DocuView Déjà Vu: Josh's: Empire of Dreams: The Story of the 'Star Wars' Trilogy (2004) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0416716/ Christian's: Web of Make Believe: Death, Lies and the Internet (2022) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt20602042/

“People are going to watch your movie for such an infinitesimally small percentage of their life. What they’re going to do is remember it.”

That insight from Emmy-winning editor Charles Olivier—who’s cut The Jinx, The Redeem Team, and George Clooney’s Surviving Ohio State—stopped Christian Taylor cold. It cuts right to the heart of documentary filmmaking: your audience will forget most of your film. The question is whether you’ve given them something worth remembering.

In this episode of Documentary First: The Deep Dive, Christian explores the neuroscience behind “sticky” storytelling—why emotional moments lodge in memory while everything else fades—and shares how she accidentally discovered this principle while making The Girl Who Wore Freedom.

What You’ll Explore:

• The Memory Paradox: Why viewers forget 90% of your film—and why that’s okay
• Brain Synchronization: How emotional moments literally sync your audience’s neural patterns
• The Gist vs. Detail Trade-Off: What neuroscience says about what sticks and what fades
• Human Connection Over Subject Matter: Why Charles focuses on relationships, not topics

The Framework for Memorable Storytelling:

1. Ask: What do I want people to remember six months from now?
2. Find: The human moments—not the dramatic footage
3. Build: Your entire film around those moments

Featured Filmmaker: Charles Olivier—Emmy-winning editor whose credits include The Jinx (HBO), The Redeem Team (Netflix), and Surviving Ohio State (HBO/George Clooney). His insight about what audiences remember sparked this entire exploration.

About The Deep Dive: This companion podcast airs on alternate weeks from the main Documentary First podcast. Every other week, Christian takes one powerful idea from a recent conversation and explores it more deeply—examining what it means, why it matters, and what to do about it.

Hear the full interview: Listen to Episode 270 of Documentary First for Christian’s complete conversation with Charles Olivier about editing, working with George Clooney, and structuring documentaries like symphonies. https://open.spotify.com/episode/3yEp5LhuBAlCZACwKpyamR?si=7cdcc3936bbe4256

If you’re enjoying the show, please subscribe and leave a review!

Christian sits down with her sound team, Jeff Kurtenacker (Composer) and Jason Hoban (Sound Engineer), to bounce ideas around concerning the development of her next project, The Brave Dutch.

DocuView Déjà Vu: Christian's: Jane (2017) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7207238/ Jeff's: Our Father (2022) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt19704638/ Jason's: Trafficked with Mariana Van Zeller (2020) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10370750

Today we’re back with Josh, Christian and Jason. We stop and remember Brad Freeman of Easy Company, and discuss what’s going on with the film now, and the highs and lows of production.

DocuView Déjà Vu: Josh’s: Val (2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt14731254 Christian’s: Julia (2021) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13782428 Jason’s: Chernobyl: the Lost Tapes (2022) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13913326

Zach Callaghan refreshes us on how he joined the team as a staff writer. Initially hired to help with documentary guideline work, he also shares how he become an impromptu production crew member in France.

At the tail-end of her journey in France this Summer, Christian talks with Josh Lindsay about the thick of what was a packed schedule. Screenings, filming a sizzle reel, and honoring veterans were just a few of the things on the list. Listen to hear the rest!

DocuView Déjà Vu: American Movie: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0181288/ Somebody Feed Phil: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7752034

Carentan sizzle reel shoot is done! Christian and Co-Producer, Michelle Coupey review the past few weeks with TGWWF and give a quick peek into the most recent shoot in Normandy.

By the time you're reading this, Christian will have already left Georgia for France. This is a fresh recollection of the whirlwind of events that's happened on the US side with companies like Delta, Michelin, and the Best Defense Foundation. But now we're off to Normandy to film our next project, and how things like hiring a French crew on site and bringing over the Documentary First team is discussed.

Christian and Jason dive into Christian’s last week of travels for the film, then we dive into corporate sponsorships and what they mean for filmmakers.

Christian walks us through her visit to New York City, the players club, site seeing, and visiting Staten Island.

After that we dive into corporate sponsorships, what they mean for a filmmaker, a film, and the company sponsoring.

XUMO.TV

DocuView Déjà Vu:

Lost in La Mancha: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0308514/

Today we’re joined by just Christian and Jason, Christian’s back from Reims, France. We discuss Josh’s middle initial, Christian’s visit to the Red Movie Awards, and her wins! Christian gives us the rundown of the film festival. We detour into best networking practices, bringing something to offer. Then Christian gives us an update about her new distribution agreement. DocuView Déjà Vu: Class Action Park: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11015214/ Before the Flood: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5929776/

This week Christian traveled to Reims, France for the RED Movie Awards (Reims Excellence Director) annual ceremony, and met with local special guests, Dany and Flo, to reminisce about the events that got them to where they are now.

Bar of June 6 Website: https://bardu6juin.eatbu.com/?lang=en

FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/Bardu6juinEpicerielaMadeleine

Today is the final episode in our limited series about distribution, where we reveal the name of Christian’s distributor!

We talk through distributor woes, Panera woes, new distributor agreements, contracts, and updates about Cannes Film Market.

The film is now available for streaming and DVD on the film’s website: https://thegirlwhoworefreedom.com/

Christian then gives us an update about her time at the Julien Dubuque International Film Festival, a film made at the festival, and what’s next!

JaxandChawn on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jaxandchawn/?hl=en

Jason Rugg on Twitter: https://twitter.com/jaseruggy

The Movie Proposal Podcast: https://themovieproposal.libsyn.com/

DocuView Déjà Vu:

Block Buster Podcast: https://www.getblockbuster.com/

We Didn't Start the Fire: The History Podcast: ‎https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/we-didnt-start-the-fire-the-history-podcast/id1549243765

The Automat: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4554690/reference/

Imagine standing in an ancient Egyptian tomb, camera in hand, as a sarcophagus is opened for the first time in thousands of years. For filmmaker Jeffrey Roth, that moment sparked a realization: "No, this is real."

This is the first-ever episode of Documentary First: The Deep Dive—a new companion series where Christian Taylor takes one insight from recent podcast conversations, explores it deeply, and connects it to the universal experience of creative work.

In this episode, Christian unpacks why "mountaintop moments"—the ones you've worked years to reach—often feel completely different than you expect. Drawing from her own journey filming at Brecourt Manor in Normandy (the most famous house on D-Day), Christian explores the psychology behind why doubt doesn't disappear when dreams come true, and how the discipline of presence keeps us from missing the very moments we worked so hard to achieve.

What You'll Explore:

· • The Imposter Gap: Why calling yourself an "actor" or "filmmaker" for the first time feels like a lie

· • Hedonic Adaptation: The psychological reason our brains move to the "next worry" before a breakthrough even sinks in

· • Presence vs. Panic: How to stay grounded when you're terrified the "file won't play" during your big debut

· • The Mountaintop Rule: Why valleys aren't failures—they're just part of the terrain

Three Practical Steps to Stay Present:

1. Breathe: Let the exact moment sink in; it will never come again
2. Gratitude: Think of the people who helped you get to this field or tomb
3. Perspective: Learn to ride the highs with joy and the lows with steadiness

Featured Filmmaker: Jeffrey Roth—documentary filmmaker whose work includes being embedded with archaeological teams uncovering ancient Egyptian tombs. His insight about realizing "no, this is real" sparked this entire exploration.

About The Deep Dive: This new mini-podcast airs opposite weeks from the main Documentary First podcast. Every other week, Christian takes one powerful idea from a recent conversation and explores it more deeply—examining what it means, why it matters, and what to do about it.

Hear the full interview with Jeffrey Roth: Listen to his complete Documentary First episode for the backstory behind this moment and his incredible filmmaking journey.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/0fyVxSooH2HViLHVhAln3i?si=f6fe555b10d24a70

If you're enjoying the show, please subscribe and leave a review!

Listen to our final episode to our 3-part series on distribution, but first, Christian gives an update on Grueling Glory from Dubuque, IA! Next, she shares victories in gaining self-distribution and informs why paying attention to the fine print matters.

DocuView Déjà Vu:

Hoop Dreams https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110057/

America to Me (Oak Park episode) https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7768836/

Every Frame a Painting https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjFqcJQXGZ6T6sxyFB-5i6A

Robert's Village https://www.brianbussvideo.com/tulibumu-sub

It’s part 2 of our series on cutting ties with the Girl Who Wore Freedom’s Distributor! We get an ongoing update about the film, European distribution and how Christian got into her relationship with her distributor.

DocuView Déjà Vu: Three Identical Strangers: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7664504/ The Inventor: Out for Blood in Silicon Valley: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8488126/ Wild Wild Country: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7768848/

Today is the start of a new limited series of Podcasts about Distribution, expanding upon what we discussed in last week’s episode.

We get some updates about upcoming festivals, showings of the film and some unexpected technical hurdles.

We talk through the factors that went into the distribution deal coming to an end.

DocuView Déjà Vu: The Wolfpack: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2415458 The Go-Go’s: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11394468 Blackfish: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2545118

Today Christian gives us an update about "Grueling Glory", film festivals, and then we dive into a major update about the distribution of the film.

Then we get some updates about the "Brave Dutch", and then we dig into a very disappointing development for "The Girl Who Wore Freedom".

Today we talk through SRT files for films, the hurdles of working internationally with multiple companies, Dual Mono audio vs Stereo, airborne school, writing the next thing, and then dig into VO work.

We talk through equipment, getting started in the industry, practicing, and getting an agent.

https://voatlanta.me/

DocuView Déjà Vu - The Alpinist: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11790780/ The Miles Davis Story: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0319862/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0 Super Size Me: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0390521/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0

Today we’re joined by Mindy Cook! We talk through the process of making a DCP file, getting it shipped to location for showing the film, backup plans, and traveling to France.

Then we dive into some of our favorite cinematography choices in film and television shows.

Mindy digs into the nitty gritty of what it means to be in the camera department on films, budgets, and equipment.

DocuView Déjà Vu- "Inside Job": https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1645089/ "Blowin’ Up": https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6828722/?ref_=fn_al_tt_2 "My Octopus Teacher": https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12888462/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0 "Won’t You Be My Neighbor?": https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7681902/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0

Mindy returns to talk shop behind producer-type work including finding a graphic designer, recruiting, and gathering support. Also, we learn Doc First's short, "Grueling Glory", got into Top 6 at Julien Dubuque Film Festival! Keep listening to hear how we connected a WWII veteran, Richard C. Rung, to being recognized for his efforts in Normandy. DocuView Déjà Vu- "Formula 1: Drive to Survive": https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8289930/ "Generation Wealth": https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5268348/ "The Kingmaker": https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5105734/

Today we’re joined by Mindy Cook, a cinematographer, to talk cinematography!

But first, some updates about festivals, acceptances into film festivals, new places to watch The Girl Who Wore Freedom and then dive into some Patreon updates!

Then Mindy and Christian dig into Cinematographers, what Christian looks for in those team members, what a cinematographer’s relationship with the director is.

Team Deakins: https://teamdeakins.libsyn.com/ Wandering DP: http://wanderingdp.com/ Filmmakers Academy Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/filmmakers-academy-podcast/id1382924546 DocuView Déjà Vu- Jiro Dreams of Sushi: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1772925/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0 Born to Play: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12615654/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0 Worst Roommate Ever: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8323702/

Christian’s back from some state-side travel, she recaps her trip, then we dive into some sad news, and some good news! Netflix delivers their verdict, we talk through next steps with AVOD (Advertising-based Video on Demand) streamers, airbus, and some special events after. Then we dive into "The Brave Dutch", people passing on the pitch, and what’s next.

My Darling Vivian: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7432980/ Generation Hustle: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11210524/

Christian relays her time with Flavie and Thomas on their trip around the US. They made new connections with the National WWII Museum in New Orleans, Louisiana, for developing a "TGWWF tour." Then Christian talks about taxes, veterans charities, DVDs, and future events in France this Summer. One of our next big projects is to develop a sizzle reel so that we can show investors what we are all about.

Café du Monde https://shop.cafedumonde.com/ National WWII Museum https://www.nationalww2museum.org/ Bob Ross Documentary https://www.imdb.com/title/tt14539744/

Emmy-winning editor Charles Olivier reveals how he restructured HBO's Surviving Ohio State and what it's like getting notes from George Clooney.

Charles has cut some of the biggest docs of the last decade—The Jinx, Magic and Bird, The Redeem Team. Surviving Ohio State, produced by Clooney and directed by Oscar winner Eva Orner, exposes decades of abuse in college athletics. In this episode, Charles breaks down how he pitched a new vision to the production team, why he structures documentaries like symphonies instead of three-act narratives, and his advice for editors finding their voice.

What You'll Learn:

• How documentary editors get hired (the "fresh eyes" audition)
• The editor as "midwife" to the director's vision
• Structuring docs like music—themes, movements, dynamics
• Editing trauma narratives without losing emotional resonance
• Finding your film's "grain" (why the lead isn't always who you expect)
• What it's actually like working with George Clooney

Timestamps:

00:00 Introduction

03:00 What is Surviving Ohio State?

09:00 How Charles got hired

12:00 The editor as "midwife"

14:00 Career path: film school to HBO

17:00 Why relationships matter more than subject matter

19:00 The message of the film

24:00 Layers of betrayal: institutions vs. individuals

28:00 Structuring documentary like a symphony

34:00 Finding the emotional center

37:00 Trusting yourself as an editor

41:00 Collaboration: when to push back

44:00 Working with George Clooney

49:00 Advice for emerging editors

52:00 DocuView Déjà Vu: FYRE (Netflix)

About Charles Olivier:

Emmy and Peabody Award-winning editor. Credits: Surviving Ohio State (HBO), The Jinx, The Redeem Team (Netflix), Magic and Bird. Based in France.

If you're enjoying the show, please subscribe and leave a review!

Thomas Neighbour and Flavie Bass of NormandyDiscoveryTours.com, jump on the podcast from Jackson, MS! Christian shares about translating the movie into French for a Normandy film festival and how Thomas tried out voiceover. Stay tuned til' to the end to hear Jeff Kurtenacker, our composer's, new ditty for "DocuView DejaView".

A French Village https://www.amazon.com/A-French-Village-English-subtitled/dp/B01BPRD9EU

It's a snow day, and Christian's back from Montana for the Flathead Lake Film Festival. She gives us an update on the trip, the Miracle of America Museum, and Mission Mountain.

Feeling Through https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1CqzntEZZ8

Accessible Outdoors https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOw2_Zy9-tw

Five Came Back https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6587094/

Thin Blue Line https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096257/

Pandas https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7860270/

Your Friend, Ranger Doug https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=887Ot0QI688

Christian talks about people reaching out to her asking for help/advice for their first documentary. Then we get an update on the sub-distribution of The Girl Who Wore Freedom, including some crushing news.

We talk about the changing environment of streaming, distribution, different channels, and the way the industry has shifted in the last few years.

Then we dive deep into podcast space, understanding advertisers, sponsorships, affiliate links, and how to make money.

Dejavu DocuView:

The Rescue: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9098872/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0 Launch, the podcast: ‎https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/launch/id1319436103 Clive Davis: The Soundtrack of Our Lives: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6494358/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0

The crew’s back together, Christian gives us an update about Documentary First Productions! "Grueling Glory" will be showing at the Flathead Lake International Cinemafest, possibly showing The Girl Who Wore Freedom again. TGWWF has been nominated for several awards at the Red Movie Awards, which qualifies as their French Premiere! Then we talk through the new sizzle reel Christian will be shooting while over in France. Writing the sizzle reel, outlining it, figuring out the first episode of the show, and expanding the series.

We talk through some of Christian’s other documentary ideas and projects and pivot to international distribution.

Deja-vu DocuView:

My Date with Drew: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0378407/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0

McMillions: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9148598/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0

Fyre: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9412098/

Fyre Fraud: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7843600/

Listen to Jeff Kurtenacker, Composer, and Jason Hoban, Sound Engineer talk about their work on "Grueling Glory | The March to Carentan" Documentary First's 9-minute short film. The film is nominated for Best Documentary Short at Flathead Lake International Cinemafest in Polson, Montana, happening January 28-30, 2022.

Christian Taylor's recommendations:

・"Sinatra: All or Nothing at All" http://www.jigsawprods.com/sinatra-all-or-nothing-at-all/ ・"The Go-Go's" https://www.sho.com/titles/3463368/the-go-gos ・"My Date With Drew" https://www.amazon.com/My-Date-Drew-Barrymore/dp/B07M5J1C2Y Josh Lindsay's recommendations:

・"Landscapers" https://www.hbo.com/landscapers Jason Hoban's recommendations:

・"The Beatles: Get Back" https://www.disneyplus.com/en-gb/series/the-beatles-get-back/7DcWEeWVqrkE Jeff Kurtenacker's recommendations:

・"McCartney 3,2,1" https://www.paulmccartney.com/news-blogs/hulu-and-paul-mccartney-come-together-for-original-documentary-music-series-event ・"Muscle Shoals" https://dogwoof.com/muscleshoals ・"Jagged" https://www.hbo.com/movies/music-box-jagged ・"Worth" https://www.netflix.com/title/80226212 ・"McMillions" https://www.hbo.com/mcmillions

Today we're joined by Michèle Phoenix, we talk through Grueling Glory, how it happened, and what the experience has been like.

Christian talks through some rejections, some film festival updates, and the other projects.

Mentioned on the podcast: "Radium Girls" Movie https://www.netflix.com/title/81059876 "Fragments of Light" Book Trailer (Jeff Kurtenacker composed the accompaniment) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl3jwCMgB_I "ALBERT - An Encounter in Normandy" Michèle's Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuI0WJ_I2Ao "Bathtubs Over Broadway" Documentary https://www.bathtubsoverbroadway.com/ "The Movie Business Book" Textbook https://www.routledge.com/The-Movie-Business-Book/Squire/p/book/9781138656291

Check out Michèle Phoenix's website: https://michelephoenix.com/ & Buy her book: https://michelephoenix.com/fragments-of-light/

Emmy Award winning producer, published author, and returning Documentary First guest, Sandy Gordon, walks through Covid safety protocols in the film industry.

It is just Christian this time giving a short recap of what her trip was like reconnecting with friends of the film on her recent trip to France. This includes seeing Dany Patrix's family bar be revived, getting a tour guide in author, Denis Van Den Brink, and meeting with the mayor of Carentan in a church bell tower.

Where do podcasts come from? This week we engage in the ins and outs of finding your voice through podcasting. The struggles, the joys, and the technical bumps along the way are all about the process.

We wrap this year off with a special announcement- - the rebranding of our film company to: Documentary First. Take a quick behind the scenes look at the roll out of this exciting news with Josh Lindsay and Christian Taylor.

Jeffrey Roth has spent his career letting extraordinary people tell their own stories—Apollo astronauts, President George H.W. Bush, and now Dr. Zahi Hawass. In this episode, Christian Taylor inquires about the logistics of independent documentary filmmaking in Egypt: working with fixers, navigating permits, shooting in ancient tombs with one hour of access, and why he withholds narration. Plus: the personal moments that make his films unforgettable.

Links:

Trailer- The Man with the Hat - Official Trailer

The Man with the Hat

instagram.com/themanwiththehatmovie

Tiktok: @themanwiththehatmovie

Socials:

instagram.com/themanwiththehatmovie

tiktok.com/@themanwiththehatmovie

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61585782550439

zahifilm.com

Dr. Zahi Hawass

“41”, 2021, 98 mins, Watch on HBO MAX, IMDB Link: 41 (2012) ⭐ 6.6 | Documentary, Biography

President in Waiting, 2020, 77 mins, Watch on Fawsome or Pluto TV or Roku Channel or Tube or Prime Video, IMDB Link: President in Waiting (2020) ⭐ 7.8 | Documentary, History

DocuView Déjà Vu:

“The Kid Stays In The Picture”, 2002, 93 mins, Watch on Amazon Prime, IMDB Link: The Kid Stays in the Picture (2002) ⭐ 7.3 | Documentary, Biography

• 00:00:00 — Introduction: Jeffrey Roth’s filmmaking philosophy
• 00:03:00 — Filming in Egypt: How Jeffrey connected with Dr. Zahi Hawass
• 00:09:00 — The fixer system: Permits, crew, and equipment in Egypt
• 00:15:00 — Self-funded filmmaking: Creative freedom vs. financial challenges
• 00:21:00 — Character-driven documentary: Why no narration or talking heads
• 00:27:00 — Shooting in tombs: One-hour windows and no scouting
• 00:33:00 — The role of fixers: Language barriers and local crew
• 00:39:00 — Unplanned magic: Discovering five mummies and the family photo moment
• 00:45:00 — Filming during October 7th: 140 miles from Gaza
• 00:51:00 — Making 41: How a screening led to three years with President George H.W. Bush
• 00:57:00 — The Presidential Medal of Freedom: One camera, no audio, and a personal moment
• 01:03:00 — Collaboration in filmmaking: Working with DPs and editors
• 01:09:00 — The business of independent documentary distribution
• 01:17:00 — DocuView Déjà Vu: Jeffrey’s documentary recommendation (The Kid Stays in the Picture)

Sponsor: Virgil Films http://www.virgilfilms.com/

Support us by buying merch or watching our films: https://documentaryfirst.com/

On this episode, we’re talking through Christian’s movies/series pitches, where they’ve been pitched and some updates about the film.

We talk through Flickfair, their film festival and how Christian discovered them. Then we talk through rebranding and Patreon, which you can support us at here: https://www.patreon.com/DocFirstPodcast

Today we’re joined by James Mason, the new Director of Living Stories. We talk through what that means, why and what they’re doing, and how things are changing within the organization.

We talk about Melissa Perkins leaving the team, how Christian could have prepared better, and the implications of a long term project like a documentary.

Then we dive into productivity tools, systems and websites to help put your team on the right track.

We recollect favorite thanksgiving movies and general thanksgiving. Christian has studio updates and shares future plans with streaming platform, Vudu. We're thankful for all our subscribers and Patreon supporters!