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TitreDateDurée
The people-pleaser in the machine | Wayfound’s Dr. Tatyana Mamut29 Jul 202501:00:41

Your AI is learning to lie to you. It's not malicious—it's just trying to be a people-pleaser. This dangerous phenomenon, known as AI sycophancy, is what happens when we train models with outdated incentives.

Dr. Tatyana Mamut, an anthropologist, economist, and the CEO of Wayfound, joins us to explain why treating AI like traditional software is a critical mistake. She provides a revolutionary playbook for building AI you can actually trust, starting with how to manage AI agents like employees with clear roles, goals, and performance reviews. She then introduces the radical solution of an "AI supervisor"—an AI that manages other agents to ensure accountability. This all builds toward her vision for the "multi-sapiens workforce," where humans and AI collaborate to build the companies of tomorrow.

This is an essential guide for any leader aiming to build the culture and systems necessary to manage AI effectively.

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Is your AI strategy built for speed or stability? | Qodo’s Itamar Friedman22 Jul 202500:41:35

Is your team's AI strategy tailored for a fast-moving startup or a high-stakes enterprise? 

The answer could determine your success or failure. We're rejoined by Itamar Friedman, co-founder and CEO of Qodo, to break down what separates engineering teams that truly thrive with AI from those that are just experimenting, explaining why the path to success is fundamentally different for a startup that needs speed versus a large enterprise that must untangle bottlenecks.

Itamar reveals his vision for the evolution from "vibe coding" to a more mature "grounded coding" that relies on structured workflows and rich, automated context. He also points to the trend of dev platform teams as the future "agent keepers" who will own the holistic and safe implementation of AI. Itamar provides an actionable playbook for leaders: map your current processes, identify your biggest bottleneck, and find a specialized AI tool for that specific problem.

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You don't need more code. You need more business impact. | Thoughtworks' Chris Westerhold15 Jul 202500:59:10

Is your engineering team shipping more code but creating less business impact?

We're joined by Chris Westerhold, Global Practice Director at ThoughtWorks, to confront why engineering waste is so difficult to define and eliminate. He explains that for many teams, the issue isn't a lack of tools but a lack of a clear 'North Star' to align their efforts with real business goals, diving into why so much well-intentioned work results in wasted effort and increased friction.

Chris argues that most efficiency problems are rooted in people and processes, not technology, and why a 'systems thinking' approach is crucial for real improvement. He shares insights on balancing developer freedom with platform standardization and the leadership required to build a culture of continuous improvement. Learn why focusing on better outcomes—not just more code—is the key to unlocking your team's true potential.

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The fundamentals of agent-driven software workflows08 Jul 202500:59:08

You've bought the AI tools, but are you seeing the promised productivity gains? 

Join Dev Interrupted hosts Dan Lines and Ben Lloyd Pearson, as they break down the fundamental shift from AI coding assistants to intelligent, agentic systems. They discuss the key findings from their new guide, "The Six Trends Shaping the Future of AI-Driven Development," and challenge the common misconception that simply buying tools guarantees success by explaining why sustainable AI transformation depends less on better prompting and more on building better systems.

Dan and Ben reveal the foundational pillars required for AI adoption, from creating unified knowledge sources to modernizing your infrastructure for agentic workflows. Learn why the future lies in moving from isolated tools to fully orchestrated systems where AI agents can reason and operate across the entire software delivery lifecycle. This episode offers a strategic playbook for engineering leaders aiming to build a successful and sustainable AI strategy for 2025 and beyond.

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You’re not the user anymore | Layer’s Andrew Hamilton01 Jul 202500:49:00

If you're still building products only for humans, you're already missing out on a massive new customer base: AI agents. 

Joining Dev Interrupted is Andrew Hamilton, co-founder and CTO of Layer (a first-of-it’s kind MCP agency) to unravel this monumental shift in how products will be discovered and consumed. He dives into how AI agents are rapidly evolving from developer tools to direct consumers of APIs and products, with new standards like the MCP spearheading this transformation by effectively creating an "app store for LLMs." This evolution demands a complete rethink of product design, packaging, and user experience for an entirely new kind of user.

Andrew educates us about how successfully leveraging MCP isn't about a simple one-to-one API mapping, but about thoughtfully designing an "agent experience" based on key user workflows and providing pre-packaged capabilities. He shares insights on identifying good MCP candidates, the importance of experimentation in this fast-moving space, and how tools like Layer are defining the frontier of agent-accessible tooling.

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Inside Amazon's AI video generator | Kabir Bedi24 Jun 202500:48:45

What if creating a professional video for your business was as simple as a single click?

We're joined by Kabir Bedi, Head of Product for Image and Video Generation at Amazon Ads, to discuss how generative AI is making that a reality. He provides an inside look at Amazon's mission to democratize video advertising, empowering everyone from mom-and-pop shops to large enterprises with their innovative video generator that evolved from simply showing products to showcasing them in realistic, multi-scene lifestyle settings.

Kabir shares key insights into the engineering culture that powers this innovation, built on deep customer obsession and a dynamic, experimental mindset. He explains why bringing the entire team—including engineers and scientists—into direct conversations with users was a game-changer for their development process. Plus, listen as Kabir explains why a "learn and be curious" mindset is the key to thriving in this new landscape of AI-driven product development.

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Google DeepMind's AI playbook for engineering at hyperspeed | Philipp Schmid17 Jun 202500:50:27

What if the traditional engineering career path is being fundamentally rewritten by AI? 

We're joined by Philipp Schmid, Senior AI Developer Relations Engineer at Google DeepMind, to explore how artificial intelligence is not just a tool, but a force reshaping engineering roles, team dynamics, and the foundational methods of skill development. Philipp, with his background at Hugging Face and now at the cutting edge with Google DeepMind, offers a unique perspective on the rise of AI-native teams and engineers who learn faster, work more broadly, and drive innovation at an unprecedented scale.

Philipp offers an inside look at Google DeepMind's engine of AI innovation and breaks down the key differences between Google's flagship Gemini models and the versatile Gemma family of open models, detailing their distinct purposes.We also touch upon exciting takeaways from the recent Google I/O event, including powerful new on-device capabilities and the mind-blowing text-to-video generation with Veo.

Finally, Philipp shares practical advice for engineers and their organizations on navigating this AI-driven landscape, emphasizing continuous learning, an adaptable mindset, and how to effectively leverage a diverse AI toolkit to thrive.

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AI is the future of the SDLC10 Jun 202500:35:44

Imagine saving as much as 75 days of work within a six-month period, all through intelligent automation.

Building on last week’s discussion about the critical shift from passive metrics to active productivity, host Ben Lloyd Pearson and LinearB co-founder Dan Lines now look forward to realities like this: 19% cycle time reduction and reclaiming significant engineering time. They move beyond common narratives surrounding AI to present actionable success stories and strategic approaches for engineering leaders seeking tangible results from their AI initiatives. 

This concluding episode tackles how to safely and effectively adopt AI across your software development lifecycle. Dan explains the necessity of programmatic rules and control, detailing how LinearB's gitStream technology empowers teams to define precisely when, where, and for whom AI operates. This ranges from AI-assisted code reviews with human oversight for critical services, to enabling senior developers to make judgment calls, and even automating merges for low-risk changes. Ben and Dan also explore the exciting future of agentic AI workflows, where AI agents could manage tasks from design and Jira story creation to coding and deployment, making developer control even more critical. 

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Now is the time to rethink engineering productivity03 Jun 202500:40:20

Are your teams feeling the intense pressure to "produce more" in an era increasingly dominated by AI?

Join hosts Ben Lloyd Pearson and Dan Lines as they unpack a major shift in how engineering organizations must now approach productivity. Dan reveals the urgent challenges he hears directly from CTOs and VPs, who are grappling with how to define their AI strategy for genuine productivity gain, accurately measure its true impact, and understand the resulting implications for their workforce.

In this episode, Ben and Dan explore why traditional software engineering intelligence (simply having metrics and information) is no longer sufficient in 2025. Together, they explore productivity's nuanced meaning and discover how organizations can shift from passive data observation to an active improvement mindset, and get a look at what defines a developer productivity insights platform.

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The Odyssey of Innovation: Classics, Code, and Cognitive Load | Two Sigma's Matt Greenwood27 May 202500:52:52

What can ancient languages and epic poems teach us about building resilient tech and future-proof teams?

Host Andrew Zigler welcomes Matt Greenwood, Chief Innovation Officer of Two Sigma, for a conversation that uniquely blends their shared background in classical languages with over two decades of Matt’s experience at the forefront of financial technology. Matt unveils how this classical training has profoundly shaped his approach to building enduring innovation, fostering a resilient company culture, and leading with empathy.

Matt explains his vision for building and evolving innovation via platforms, alongside his strategies for effective goal-setting and fostering deep conceptual understanding in his team. He offers invaluable lessons on the importance of forgiving the decisions of our past selves, adapting processes for evolving needs, and thoughtfully engaging with AI to augment human creativity. This conversation is a masterclass in strategic foresight, cultivating a constant hunger for learning, and building an adaptable organization ready for whatever the future holds.

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Redefining Ambition After Burnout | Zapier’s Kelly Vaughn20 May 202500:59:05

What happens when the person trained to spot burnout becomes its next victim?

Kelly Vaughn is a Senior Engineering Manager at Zapier, the author of the After Burnout Substack, and a trained therapist. She joins hosts Ben and Andrew to share her incredibly candid journey of discovering burnout in herself. Kelly reveals how she (despite her professional understanding of burnout's mechanisms) found herself deep in its grip, recounting the slow realizations like dwindling passion, increasing cynicism, and distinct physical tolls like disrupted sleep and a loss of hunger cues.

This raw conversation offers vital lessons for anyone in a high-pressure career (and let’s face it: that’s all of us!). As the tech landscape accelerates with AI, Kelly shares insights on managing its pressures and opportunities. She redefines ambitions for herself alongside the non-negotiables she established for her own well-being when seeking her new role. Listeners will gain powerful insights into identifying their own limits, the courage for pivotal changes, and integrating new demands without self-sacrifice.

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Foresight Over Firefighting: Being Proactive in a Reactive World | Rootly's JJ Tang13 May 202500:44:02

Still stuck in a reactive loop with incident response, only fixing problems after they happen? 

JJ Tang, Co-founder and CEO of Rootly, joins host Andrew Zigler to reveal how to shift beyond reactive, leveraging powerful AI and an often-underestimated skill in engineering: genuine customer empathy. Discover how these elements are crucial for navigating the complexities of modern infrastructure and shaping the future of incident management.

JJ explores the forefront of incident response automation, discussing how to integrate shiny new tech like AI safely and why deep customer understanding is key to building trust and reliability. Learn about the common pitfalls leaders face, the cultural shifts needed for proactive reliability, and how teams can make our digital world safer.

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The End of Specialization? How AI Shapes Modern Dev Teams | Vercel’s Lee Robinson06 May 202500:54:42

Is front-end vs. back-end an antiquated way to structure engineering teams? With AI augmenting skills, a new model is emerging: the product engineer.

This week, Andrew sits down with Lee Robinson, VP of Product at Vercel to crack open the future of the web. As a respected educator and voice in the webdev community (check out his YouTube!), Lee shares his unique perspective on building both cutting-edge tools and high-performing teams.

As the VP of Product, Lee charts the evolution of developer roles and illustrates for us the rise of "product engineers" who own features end-to-end. Learn how AI tools are not just augmenting specialists but enabling designers, PMs, and founders to build "personal software." We also cover changing team dynamics and get Lee's advice on navigating the hiring process in the AI era, including: why personalization is key for candidates, how managers can spot authenticity (hint: AI-generated cover letters are obvious!), and why building in public is critical for career growth today.

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AI Gets Eyes and Ears | LiveKit’s Russ d’Sa29 Apr 202500:53:33

We've spent decades teaching ourselves to communicate with computers via text and clicks. Now, computers are learning to perceive the world like us: through sight and sound. What happens when software needs to sense, interpret, and act in real-time using voice and vision?

This week, Andrew sits down with Russ d'Sa, Co-founder and CEO of LiveKit, whose technology acts as the crucial infrastructure enabling machines to interact using real-time voice and vision, impacting everything from ChatGPT to critical 911 responses.

Explore the transition from text-based protocols to rich, real-time data streams. Russ discusses LiveKit's role in this evolution, the profound implications of AI gaining sensory input, the trajectory from co-pilots to agents, and the unique hurdles engineers face when building for a world beyond simple text transfers.

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The Shift to Agent-Driven API Consumption | Speakeasy’s Sagar Batchu22 Apr 202500:41:17

Think building killer APIs like Stripe or Twilio is purely a technical feat? Think again.

This week, we dive into why crafting successful APIs is fundamentally an organizational challenge, demanding internal excellence long before code is deployed. Sagar Batchu, co-founder and CEO of Speakeasy, joins us to unpack the crucial role of ownership, design principles, and why even internal APIs benefit from treating them like first-class products. Discover how Conway's Law dictates your API's fate and why achieving that coveted developer experience starts with your company's structure.

Getting these foundations right is more critical than ever, as the landscape now faces a dramatic shift with the rise of LLMs and agentic AI. This potentially multiplies API usage and introduces the concept of "Agent Experience" (AX), demanding even greater rigor around clear standards, documentation, and metrics like "Time to First 200." Sagar also explores the emerging Model Context Protocol (MCP) and explains why focusing on developer productivity today prepares you for the AI-driven future of tomorrow.

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How Marketing Ruined Shift Left | Semgrep’s Tanya Janca15 Apr 202500:48:52

When it comes to securing software, most developers feel like they're playing catch-up instead of setting the rules.

Tanya Janca (SheHacksPurple), author of "Alice and Bob Learn Secure Coding," brings her 28 years of IT and security expertise—spanning counter-terrorism to enterprise training—to Dev Interrupted. She unpacks the common pitfalls teams face when security is treated as an afterthought, highlighting the developer frustration of being held accountable for security without the tools or knowledge needed to succeed.

Explore how transforming security from a final gate into an ongoing practice saves money, reduces conflict, and builds better software through clear requirements and true developer empowerment. Tanya provides concrete advice for developers and leaders on creating internal knowledge libraries, fostering continuous learning habits, and critically evaluating AI-generated code to ensure it meets security standards. 

Speaking of AI's growing role, we're curious how it's reshaping workflows across the industry. Share your own experiences with AI adoption by taking our quick survey to discover your spot on the adoption graph (and what you can do to level up).

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How to Build AI Workflows You Can Trust | Infactory’s Brooke Hartley Moy08 Apr 202500:43:42

Is your company rushing headlong into AI, only to find it's a 'square peg in a round hole'?

This week, Andrew tackles the critical issue of building trust in AI systems with Brooke Hartley Moy, CEO and co-founder of Infactory.

Brooke, with her experience at companies like Google and Samsung, cuts through the hype and reveals the biggest misconceptions businesses have about AI. We dive into the 'black box' problem, the importance of high-quality data, and why not all AI is created equal.

From seating Matthew McConaughey in the rain to high-stakes medical decisions, we explore the crucial role of domain expertise and the need to move beyond LLM-centric thinking. If you're an engineering leader grappling with AI implementation, this episode is your essential guide to building trustworthy and impactful AI systems.

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Amazon Q and The Future of Autonomous Development | AWS' Adnan Ijaz01 Apr 202500:42:38

AI is evolving at a breakneck speed, leaving engineering leaders with a critical dilemma: innovate or fall behind. But how do you experiment with AI without risking your credibility? 

Andrew Zigler sits down with Adnan Ijaz, Director of Product Management for Next Gen Developer Experience at AWS, to unpack the power of AI agents. Together they discuss how to leverage autonomous AI in your development workflow, and learn from real-world examples like Amazon Q.

Dive into the evolving role of the developer and discover how to mentor your AI, not just use it. It's time to shift from task-oriented coding to strategic architecture, and this episode shows you how.

But first, co-host Dan Lines frames the conversation by discussing the shift towards measuring the concrete benefits of AI tools in development, rather than just their potential. Dan also provides examples of how to set realistic expectations for AI implementation by focusing on specific tasks and measuring both individual and workflow improvements, highlighting the need for overall workflow optimization.

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Ditch the Ticket Factory Mentality | Cosmic Teacups’ Thanos Diacakis25 Mar 202500:55:09

Imagine a world where your engineering team ships features at lightning speed, and they're genuinely happy doing it. Sounds like a fantasy? It doesn't have to be. 

This week, we're diving into the secrets of building high-performing, happy engineering teams with Thanos Diacakis, a fractional CTO and engineering coach with over 25 years of experience spanning companies like Uber, where he optimizes software engineering teams and drives technical innovation.

Thanos reveals the common mental models that hold teams back, why 'technical debt' is a myth, and how to break free from the 'feature factory' mindset. Together, he and Andrew explore practical strategies for achieving engineering excellence, from mastering iterations to managing complexity, and discover how to build a culture where velocity and happiness go hand in hand. 

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Will AI Finally Make TDD Practical? | Diffblue’s Animesh Mishra18 Mar 202500:46:04

The promise of Test Driven Development (or TDD) remains unfulfilled. Like many other forms of aspirational development, the practice has fallen victim to countless buzzword cycles. What if the answer is already in our toolbox?

This week, host Andrew Zigler sits down with Animesh Mishra, Senior Solutions Engineer at Diffblue, to unpack the gap between TDD's theoretical appeal and its practical challenges. 

Animesh draws from his extensive experience to explain how deterministic AI can address the key challenges of building trust in AI for testing. These aren’t LLMs of today, but foundational machine learning models that can evaluate all possible branches of a piece of code to write test coverage for it. Imagine writing two years worth of tests for a legacy codebase… in two hours… with no errors!

If you enjoyed this conversation about the gaps between theory and execution in engineering culture, be sure to check out last week's chat with David Mytton about shift left adoption by engineering teams.

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Can You Buy Your Way to DevSecOps Success? | Arcjet’s David Mytton11 Mar 202500:48:40

If you're tired of hearing "shift left" in DevSecOps and seeing little real change, you're not alone.

In this episode, David Mytton (CEO of ArcJet, founder of Console.dev) breaks down why traditional approaches to developer security often fail. He reveals the core conflict between developers (who want to build fast) and security teams (who want to mitigate risk), and explains why this misalignment of incentives can be detrimental for your software. Learn why simply handing devs more security tools isn't enough.

David shares his insights from years of experience reviewing developer tools and building security products. He discusses the importance of developer-centric design, the power of the right incentives, and the need for security solutions that seamlessly integrate into the developer workflow. Plus, he reveals the secrets to successful developer marketing and why traditional approaches often backfire.

Tune in to discover how to foster a security-conscious culture within your engineering team, without stifling innovation or creating unnecessary friction. Learn how to empower developers to build secure software by design, and discover the tools and strategies that are shaping the future of DevSecOps.

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Simplifying the AI Stack | IBM's Dr. Maryam Ashoori04 Mar 202500:46:23

This week, Andrew Zigler sits down with Dr. Maryam Ashoori, Senior Director of Product Management for watsonx at IBM. Together they discuss the evolving AI stack for enterprise and the growing skill gap challenging developers. Dr. Ashoori shares insights from a recent survey of 1,000 developers, highlighting the need for better tools and strategies to manage the growing AI tool sprawl.

The conversation also explores the rise of AI agents, the potential of no-code AI development, and the future of software engineering in an AI-powered world.

But first, co-host Dan Lines (COO of LinearB) sets the stakes for engineering leaders everywhere: the future of technical work will evolve with agentic capabilities. Must we all become “AI managers” now?

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Why Are Teams Only Aligned During a Crisis? | CircleCI & MongoDB25 Feb 202501:19:49

This week, Ben and Andrew dive into the (surprisingly?) complex world of calculator apps, analyze how AI is revolutionizing the technical interview, and dissect the emerging “two-tier” economy around AI. What side of the curve does your org fall on?

Then, the conversation goes on site to San Francisco, where host Dan Lines hosts Rob Zuber (CTO, CircleCI) and Tara Hernandez (VP of Dev Productivity at MongoDB) for a discussion of LinearB's 2025 Software Engineering Benchmarks Report.

We unpack the report's surprising findings on the PR lifecycle, project management hygiene, DORA metrics, code quality, and predictability, with key takeaways for optimizing your engineering team's performance.

Be sure to grab your copy of the report to follow along with Dan, Rob & Tara.

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Can Your AI Strategy Be Future-Proof? | Galileo’s Vikram Chatterji18 Feb 202500:40:59

Ben and Andrew open the show by dissecting why AI can't see gorillas, how big banks are stepping up to attract tech talent, and why focus is becoming the must-have resource for devs.

Then, Vikram Chatterji, co-founder and CEO of Galileo, joins Andrew for a discussion on how engineering leaders can future-proof their AI strategy and navigate an emerging dilemma: the pressure to adopt AI to stay competitive, while justifying AI spend and avoiding risky investments.

To accomplish this, Vikram emphasizes the importance of establishing clear evaluation frameworks, prioritizing AI use cases based on business needs and understanding your company's unique cultural context when deploying AI.

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Why Teams Will Break This Year (and How to Fix Them) | Battery Venture’s Dharmesh Thakker11 Feb 202501:06:25

Live from San Francisco, Dev Interrupted explores the future of developer productivity with Ori Keren (CEO, LinearB) and Dharmesh Thakker (General Partner, Battery Ventures). The conversation, recorded before a live audience in San Francisco, examines the exciting possibilities and potential challenges of AI-powered tools, from code completion and review to the more advanced agentic AI.  

Moderated by Ben Lloyd Pearson, this episode captures the excitement of the event, including audience Q&A and feedback. Ori and Dharmesh share their insights on how these trends will shape the future of software development over the next 12 to 24 months, offering predictions and practical advice for engineering teams and leaders. Discover how these shifts will impact your work and the broader tech industry.

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Hunting for a Flywheel | Refactoring’s Luca Rossi04 Feb 202500:51:38

To open the show, Ben and Andrew dive into the latest headlines about DeepSeek from last week. We answer questions like “why did everyone search ‘Jevons paradox'?” and discuss strategic AI investments from financial giants like Goldman Sachs. These moves underscore the growing importance of strong engineering leadership in the age of AI.

Then, Luca Rossi of Refactoring joins us to discuss his latest research. Drawing from a comprehensive survey of engineering professionals (thanks to you!), Luca breaks down the key traits and practices of successful engineering teams, revealing surprising correlations between team happiness, shipping frequency, and recognition by non-technical leadership.

Be sure to grab your copy of the report to follow along with today’s insights.

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Low-Code Won’t Replace You | Camunda’s Bernd Ruecker28 Jan 202500:45:30

Ben and Andrew open the show by discussing the emergence of the DeepSeek AI model, Google's shakeup of the SEO landscape, and speculate on whether or not we're seeing the death of free APIs.

Then, Ben sits down with Bernd Ruecker, Co-Founder and Chief Technologist at Camunda, to explore how low code solutions are changing the game for developers. They discuss how these tools allow developers to focus on more complex challenges, and delve into the importance of understanding when to leverage low code versus custom solutions, and the evolving role of developers in a world increasingly driven by automation.

Finally, do us a favor and fill out the Dev Interrupted listener survey! You'll be our best friend forever :-)

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The Need for Speed | 2025 Engineering Benchmarks21 Jan 202500:31:06

Want to ship better software? Get in the fast lane.

This week, hosts Ben Lloyd Pearson and Andrew Ziegler open the episode with a discussion of some of the tech topics dominating the news cycle like Microsoft's restructuring to focus on AI, a potential TikTok ban in the U.S. and a status check on New Year's resolutions. 

Then, joined by Dan Lines, they shift their focus to the 2025 Engineering Benchmarks Report by LinearB. This in-depth conversation explores the crucial link between developer experience and productivity, the impact of project management hygiene on development, and new metrics like PR maturity and project traceability.

Within this data-driven discussion, uncover key insights on how smaller PRs boost velocity and quality, the connection between longer cycle times and increased change failure rates, and the ideal investment profiles for engineering teams.

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Managing Developer Feedback Effectively | Atlassian’s Andrew Boyagi14 Jan 202500:41:48

Is your company relying on surveys alone to bridge the gap between developers and managers?  

In this episode of Dev Interrupted, host Ben Lloyd Pearson and Dan Lines, COO of LinearB, dive into the perceived misalignment between engineers and their leaders on improving developer experience. Together, they emphasize the importance of data-driven insights over relying solely on surveys, highlighting how quantifiable metrics can illuminate issues like technical debt and build times.  The conversation also touches on the power of setting clear, company-wide goals to boost developer experience and productivity.

Next, Conor Bronsdon, in his final episode as host, sits down with Andrew Boyagi, Atlassian's head of DevOps Evangelism. Andrew brings a wealth of knowledge on developer experience, emphasizing the need for transparency, the nuances of measuring productivity, and the crucial role of company culture in aligning development teams with business goals.

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The Hero Culture Trap | Sowmya Subramanian07 Jan 202500:53:58

How do you build a culture that balances operational excellence with developer happiness? By shifting from firefighting to foresight.

Kick off Season 5 of Dev Interrupted with hosts Ben Lloyd Pearson, Andrew Zigler, and Dan Lines as they share their New Year's resolutions and welcome Sowmya Subramanian, whose leadership journey spans Google, YouTube, and Oracle, to the show. From redefining metrics like DORA to adapting processes like Fix-It Weeks, Soumya discusses dismantling the “hero” mindset that rewards firefighting, aligning engineering with business priorities, and creating rituals that scale teams without sacrificing creativity.

Tune in to learn how Sowmya’s holistic approach to metrics, culture, and tooling creates resilient teams and products that scale without breaking a sweat.

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Season 4 Finale: A Fond Farewell, What’s Next & Would You Rather17 Dec 202400:40:34

It's the end of an era on Dev Interrupted as we say farewell to host Conor Bronsdon and welcome a fresh voice, Andrew Zigler!

Join us for a nostalgic trip down memory lane as Conor revisits his favorite interviews and moments from Season 4 and beyond, including discussions on chaos engineering, technical debt, and the human side of managing software engineers. He shares memorable stories from guests like Charity Majors, Rob Zuber, Kelly Vaughn, and many more, while reflecting on the evolution of Dev Interrupted and its impact on the engineering leadership community.

But it’s not all bittersweet. Get an exclusive sneak peek at the exciting changes coming to Dev Interrupted in 2025. Expect the show to double down on research and data, explore new formats, and even hit the road with live events. Plus, the Dev Interrupted Substack will feature more frequent newsletters, unique analysis of research white papers, and insights from guest writers. 

You don’t want to miss this special episode filled with laughter, reflection, and a surprise holiday-themed game of Would You Rather. 

The team is taking off the holidays but we’ll see you back here on January 7th for the start of Season 5!

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Developer Productivity Will Decline in 2025 | Predictions from LinearB’s Ori Keren10 Dec 202400:38:26

2025 will test every assumption about how engineering teams work.

With the new year fast approaching Ori Keren, CEO of LinearB, has some bold predictions that might surprise you, like why developer productivity could actually go down in 2025.

Yep, you read that right.

As AI tools flood the market, we might see a dip in both productivity and creativity before the long-term benefits kick in. It’s a wake-up call for engineering leaders to rethink how they lead their teams.

Ori dives into the trends that’ll dominate:
- AI’s rise
- The ever-growing need for cybersecurity
- Why DevEx and developer productivity are heading for a showdown

His advice? Stop flying blind. “You can’t optimize what you don’t measure,” he says.

If you’re leading an engineering org, this episode is your 2025 game plan: a mix of data-driven decision-making and people-first strategies to stay ahead in a year of change. Don’t miss this insightful fusion of qual and quant.

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From Rockets to Roadmaps: An Engineer's Guide to Product Success | Sift Stack’s Austin Spiegel03 Dec 202400:28:51

What’s the secret to building better products? Letting engineers drive the vision.

This week, host Ben Lloyd Pearson interviews Austin Spiegel, co-founder and CTO of Sift Stack, who previously spent years leading engineering teams at SpaceX. Austin reveals how SpaceX's unique engineering culture, which eliminated the product management layer,  influenced his approach to building Sift Stack, including the implementation of a forward-deployed engineering team.

Learn how this approach leads to faster development cycles, happier customers, and more innovative products.

Austin also argues that we're entering a new era where the most valuable engineers aren't just skilled coders, but also savvy business thinkers. He believes that as software development becomes easier due to the proliferation of AI, engineers who can connect their technical expertise with a deep understanding of customer needs and market trends will have a significant competitive advantage.

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From Fear to Function: Rethinking Engineering Processes | Stytch’s Julianna Lamb26 Nov 202400:25:28

Most developers (ourselves included) want to run for the hills when they hear the words “engineering process.” But it turns out, the biggest danger to your team may not be having enough process.

You don’t have to take our word for it. This week’s guest made a believer out of us and we’re willing to bet she’ll make a believer out of you too.

Julianna Lamb, co-founder and CTO of Stytch, understands that engineering processes can be a sensitive subject for developers. But she argues that the right amount of process can actually boost your team's velocity and empower them to take ownership. Julianna shares insights on how to right-size processes for teams, implement effective project life cycles, and address friction points to ensure smooth workflows.

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Are Only 20% of Devs Happy? | Stack Overflow’s Erin Yepis19 Nov 202400:45:49

This week, Dev Interrupted dives into the 2024 Stack Overflow Developer Survey, revealing a surprising statistic: only 1 in 5 developers are happy in their jobs.
 
Stack Overflow's Senior Analyst of Market Research and Insights, Erin Yepis, joins host Ben Lloyd Pearson to discuss the survey's findings and explore the reasons behind this widespread dissatisfaction. From salary woes and workplace settings to the ever-present burden of technical debt, they dissect the factors impacting developer happiness.

Later, Dan Lines offers his perspective, drawing on LinearB's data to pinpoint three key challenges to developer satisfaction. He also shares valuable strategies for tackling technical debt, a growing concern as more companies transform into software-driven businesses.

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Making Sense of Agentic AI | ThoughtWorks Birgitta Boeckeler12 Nov 202400:47:40

There’s AI agents. There’s AI tooling. Do either drive business impact or are they just more things your dev team is supposed to stay on top of?

Birgitta Boeckeler, Global Lead for AI Assisted Software Delivery at ThoughtWorks, joins the show to discuss the practical applications of AI in software delivery. She shares her research on AI agents, highlights areas where AI hasn't lived up to the hype, and offers concrete examples of useful AI tools for development teams.

Dan Lines then joins the conversation to provide his perspective on how engineering leaders can leverage these insights to effectively implement AI within their own teams. He also discusses LinearB's efforts in helping software teams measure the business impact of AI.

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Open Source Meets AI | Red Hat's Scott McCarty05 Nov 202400:45:38

Open source has transformed software development, but can it do the same for AI?

In this episode of Dev Interrupted, Conor Bronsdon talks with Scott McCarty, Senior Principal Product Manager at Red Hat, about the potential of open source AI to revolutionize enterprise DevOps. 

They discuss the challenges and opportunities of open source AI, including licensing, security, and the need for community-driven development. McCarty argues that open source AI is crucial for building trust and ensuring that AI benefits everyone, not just a select few.

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Back to First Principles | Productiv CTO Ashish Aggarwal29 Oct 202400:38:45

Everyone knows the era of growth at all costs is over, but where does that leave us? And specifically, where does that leave founders? The answer is straightforward: founders have to start thinking like business people. 

This week, Conor Bronsdon interviews Ashish Aggarwal, founder and CTO of Productive and an active investor in over 30 companies.

Ashish shares his insights on how startups are adapting to the new “efficient growth” environment, why this paradigm shift is an opportunity for founders, and how the pressures of efficiency have created incentives for companies to move towards geo-distributed teams instead of co-located teams.

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The Real Measure of Success in Platform Engineering | MassDriver CEO Cory O'Daniel22 Oct 202400:45:04

It’s time we recognize the idea of a ‘Golden Path’ is unrealistic.

In this episode of Dev Interrupted, host Dan Lines is joined by Cory O'Daniel, CEO of MassDriver, to discuss Cory’s provocative article 'DevOps is Bullshit'. They cover the pitfalls of DevOps, the evolution of cloud operations and whether or not platform engineering is the solution the industry needs .

Cory shares insights on why many organizations struggle with DevOps implementation, the impact of cloud technology on traditional operations, and how internal developer platforms are reshaping the industry.

Topics:

  • 01:03 Where has DevOps gone wrong?
  • 04:19 Have we changed or does DevOps mean something different?
  • 11:51 Platform engineering in 2024
  • 20:10 How can platform engineering leaders measure success?
  • 26:40 Why are new hires being put in charge of DevOps?
  • 29:53 Getting buy in for a better platform engineering experience
  • 39:13 Are internal developer platforms a fad? 


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Transforming Customer Support with AI | DevRev’s Co-founder & CEO Dheeraj Pandey15 Oct 202400:49:52

This week, host Conor Bronsdon chats with Dheeraj Pandey, CEO and co-founder of DevRev. Dheeraj shares his incredible journey from leading Nutanix to a valuation of $16 billion, to now striving to build another unicorn with DevRev.

Dheeraj opens up about the lessons learned from his entrepreneurial journey, emphasizing the significance of having a holistic approach to building products and companies. He explores how his experiences at Nutanix have shaped his vision at DevRev, especially in terms of integrating AI as a core component rather than a mere add-on.

The discussion also covers a range of topics including the transformative power of AI in business operations, customer-centric design, and the importance of balancing innovative technology with intuitive user experience.

Topics:

  • 02:49 What inspired you to start DevRev?
  • 08:38 How did you decide not to take a bolt on approach to AI?
  • 11:30 What can other entrepreneurs learn from you about levelling up their abilities?
  • 16:42 How are you approaching scaling up DevRel?
  • 28:11 How is DevRev thinking about AI driven design?
  • 44:52 What's happening with DevRev's leadership in AI?

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Observability as a Success Catalyst | Momento’s Co-Founder & CTO Daniela Miao08 Oct 202400:42:05

This week, co-host Conor Bronsdon sits down with Daniela Miao, co-founder and CTO of Momento, to discuss her journey from DynamoDB at AWS to founding the real-time data infrastructure platform Momento. 

Daniela covers the importance of observability, the decision to rebuild Momento's stack with Rust, and how observability can speed up development cycles. They also explore strategies for aligning technical projects with business objectives, building team trust, and the critical role of communication in achieving success. 

Tune in for valuable insights on leadership, technical decision-making, and startup growth.

Topics:

  • 02:01 Why is observability often treated as an auxiliary service?
  • 06:14 Making a push for observability
  • 13:32 Picking the right metrics to observe and pay attention to
  • 15:49 Has the technical shift to Rust paid off?
  • 19:23 How did you create trust and buy in from your team to make a switch?
  • 26:31 What could other teams learn from Momento’s move to Rust?
  • 38:15 Advice would you give for other technical founders?

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Iteration Velocity is the Key to Engineering Success | Vercel’s Malte Ubl01 Oct 202400:37:51

This week, our host Dan Lines chats with Malte Ubl, CTO of Vercel, about why iteration speed is a game-changer for teams trying to deliver more efficiently. Malte shares how accelerating the development cycle and embracing platform engineering can supercharge productivity, helping teams ship faster and innovate more effectively.

We explore what it really means to streamline workflows, reduce bottlenecks, and create an environment where developers can focus on what they do best—building great products. Malte also gives us a behind-the-scenes look at how engineering strategies are evolving to keep up with the ever-growing demands.

Topics:

  • 01:14 How do you see platform engineering changing the way modern software engineering functions?
  • 04:52 Decentralized vs. centralized teams?
  • 11:40 How Vercel is using AI
  • 13:30 All about AI SDKs
  • 20:41 How should platform engineering teams should be using AI?
  • 28:02 Power struggles between high level ICs and a high level managers?
  • 30:10 Key factors to focus on when optimizing AI applications?
  • 35:11 Advice for other CTOs or engineering leaders

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How Specialized Models Drive Developer Productivity | Tabnine’s Brandon Jung24 Sep 202400:45:50

What are the limitations of general large language models, and when should you evaluate more specialized models for your team’s most important use case?

This week, Conor Bronsdon sits down with Brandon Jung, Vice President of Ecosystem at Tabnine, to explore the difference between specialized models and LLMs. Brandon highlights how specialized models outperform LLMs when it comes to specific coding tasks, and how developers can leverage tailored solutions to improve developer productivity and code quality. The conversation covers the importance of data transparency, data origination, cost implications, and regulatory considerations such as the EU's AI Act.

Whether you're a developer looking to boost your productivity or an engineering leader evaluating solutions for your team, this episode offers important context on the next wave of AI solutions
Topics:

  • 00:31 Specialized models vs. LLMs
  • 01:56 The problems with LLMs and data integrity
  • 12:34 Why AGI is further away than we think
  • 16:11 Evaluating the right models for your engineering team
  • 23:42 Is AI code secure?
  • 26:22 How to adjust to work with AI effectively 32:48 Training developers in the new AI world

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Agentic AI: Dissecting the Future of AI Workflows | Memra's Founder Amir Behbehani 17 Sep 202400:45:14

Engineering teams are already seeing efficiency gains by leveraging Gen AI solutions like Copilot, but the next wave of AI workflows has the potential to 10X productivity.

This week, we’re exploring the world of Agentic AI with Amir Behbehani, Chief AI Engineer and Founder of Memra. Agentic AI can be defined as AI agents or systems that have the capacity to make decisions or take actions on their own based on the objectives they are programmed to achieve. These AI systems act independently, gathering information, processing it, and then choosing or executing actions without direct human intervention.

Amir shares how Memra is leading the way in developing AI agents capable of handling complex tasks, decision-making, and improving productivity across industries. He also discusses the implications of AI in reshaping how businesses operate, and how organizations can prepare for a future where AI plays a central role in both day-to-day operations and high-level strategic decisions.

Whether you're an AI enthusiast, an engineering leader, or curious about the future of automation, this episode offers a deep dive into the possibilities and challenges of Agentic AI and what it means for the future of work.

Chapters:

  • 01:23 Defining Agentic AI 
  • 07:02 Frameworks for thinking about Agentic AI 
  • 12:52 Unpacking AI as a black box 
  • 13:58 How Agentic AI will benefit software engineers 
  • 22:55 What would be a good starting point to leverage agents on an engineering team?
  • 26:46 Will agents replace freelancers and the gig economy?
  • 36:20 What is the synthetic marketplace?
  • 40:11 How Agentic AI impacts writing code

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The Rising Demand for Soft Skills in Engineering | LinkedIn’s VPE Aarathi Vidyasagar10 Sep 202400:45:22

According to a LinkedIn study, engineers with strong soft skills are promoted 13% faster than those with only technical skills. Given how AI will continue to reshape market demands for developers and engineering leaders, how can you adapt to these changes and further your career?

This week we’re joined by Aarathi Vidyasagar, VP of Engineering at LinkedIn, to explore the growing importance of soft skills and how leadership, communication, and empathy are becoming just as critical as technical expertise.

Aarathi shares how LinkedIn is preparing engineers to thrive in this new environment, focusing on upskilling teams to navigate AI and empower collaboration and innovation through strong interpersonal skills. She offers valuable takeaways into building engineering teams that balance hard technical abilities with the soft skills needed to lead, mentor, and work effectively in diverse teams.

For anyone interested in the future of engineering and the rising demand for soft skills, this episode offers an important perspective on how to equip your teams for long-term success in an AI-driven world.

Episode Highlights:

  • 00:56 How industry changes have impacted the need for communication and soft skills 
  • 04:31 How software development is going to continue to change 
  • 12:33 Generalists vs Specialists 
  • 15:52 How is LinkedIn positioned for the new era of hiring?
  • 31:11 How is LinkedIn approaching developer experience and productivity?
  • 36:33 How to support devs in automating migrations 

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Finding the Best Gen AI Use Case for Your Dev Team | Sonar’s Peter McKee27 Aug 202400:34:51

Gen AI for dev teams has been a focal point of conversation for the last few years, but the technology and application are both still very nascent. How can you find the best Gen AI use case for your team, and implement it safely?

This week, our host Dan Lines sits down with Peter McKee, Vice President of Developer Relations and Community at Sonar. They explore the benefits and risks associated with Gen AI, and whether this new tooling is most impactful for junior or senior developers. Regardless of the persona, there needs to be an emphasis on quality control, static code analysis, and the new coaching strategies to help the influx of new code.

Tune in to hear Dan and Peter offer practical advice for engineering leaders on safely experimenting with and integrating Gen AI tools to enhance productivity without sacrificing quality.

Episode Highlights:

  • 00:33 The ins and out of being a VP of Developer Relations and Community
  • 04:48 The Importance of wisdom and experience when applying Gen AI
  • 08:32 Is there more of a risk for junior developers in this age?
  • 19:51 How tooling can help with the influx of Gen AI Code 
  • 26:02 The safe ways to roll out Gen AI to developers
  • 29:21 Where to start applying Gen AI for your team 

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Mastering Developer Experience at Shopify | Eytan Seidman, Director of Product 20 Aug 202400:43:02

In an organization as big as Shopify, how can you pioneer exceptional developer experience not only for your team but also for external developers using your product?

This week we’re joined by Eytan Seidman, Director of Product at Shopify to unpack Shopify's approach to building elite engineering teams. Eytan highlights how Shopify’s high-context, high-autonomy culture empowers engineers and product managers to innovate and drive impact. By leveraging a mission-driven culture, Shopify ensures that internal and external developers can contribute effectively to the platform, without being bottlenecked back by inefficient processes or developer experience.

Tune in this week, and discover how you can implement the same processes that have made Shopify so successful.

Episode Highlights:

  • 00:50 What makes engineering and product roles at Shopify special?
  • 03:31 How Shopify onboards new hires to drive impact
  • 09:05 Pioneering developer experience at Shopify
  • 13:28 How Shopify defines success for their platform 
  • 17:50 Building high-context, empowered teams
  • 29:35 Leveraging AI and LLM’s as a growth opportunity
  • 35:29 Advice for product and engineering leaders thinking about their next career step

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Helping Government Software Teams Move Faster | Carnegie Mellon's Robin Yeman13 Aug 202400:23:55

Both the aerospace and defense sectors are renowned for long project timelines rife with silos and hurdles that get in the way of productivity. With over 20 years of experience at Lockheed Martin and elsewhere, Robin Yeman literally wrote the book Industrial DevOps on how to implement DevOps principles at traditional behemoths to build faster, safer systems.

As Space Domain Lead at Carnegie Mellon's Software Engineering Institute, Robin’s pioneering work reveals how applying DevOps principles can significantly improve speed, quality, and collaboration at traditional enterprises. She emphasizes the importance of cross-functional teams, modular architectures, and a growth mindset in driving innovation and overcoming the challenges of digital transformation within the aerospace and defense sectors.

Tune in to gain practical insights about the application of DevOps in large-scale systems, the role of organizational design in fostering communication, and how these principles have helped government software teams.


Episode Highlights:

- 01:12 Robin’s book Industrial DevOps
- 04:00 How did Robin’s work at Lockheed Martin lead to Carnegie Mellon?
- 05:46 How should you get started thinking about industrial DevOps?
- 08:01 How Robin’s research came together across varied experiences
- 10:25 What patterns can you adapt to be more successful?
- 16:54 Quantitative vs. qualitative data when making long term plans
- 20:27 Shifting left in Industrial DevOps

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Scaling Smart: Strategies for Product Development | Semgrep’s Adam Berman06 Aug 202400:39:48

Scaling new product lines within a growing company can be both an opportunity and quite challenging. Semgrep's Head of Engineering Adam Berman joined us this week to share his own experience developing Semgrep's second product line.

Adam was instrumental in developing Semgrep's second product line, and he shares practical strategies for moving from a single-product to a multi-product organization. He unpacks the challenges of organizational design, the importance of fast iteration and feedback loops, and how to build a cohesive company identity with so many moving parts.

If you want to learn how to effectively scale products and how to drive product growth, this episode is a must-listen.

Episode Highlights: 

  • 1:10 The challenges of new product lines 
  • 4:25 Scaling teams for success and strategies for growth
  • 7:30 Finding the right balance between practicality and innovation
  • 12:15 A startup within a startup mentality 
  • 18:40 Learning through experimentation
  • 23:55 Key considerations when navigating product market fit
  • 28:20 Driving growth in engineering teams

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From Mentor to Manager: How to Get Into Engineering Management | Asana’s Amanda Sopkin23 Jul 202400:25:52

This week, co-host Conor Bronsdon sits down with Amanda Sopkin, Engineering Manager at Asana. Amanda shares her journey from software engineer to manager, discussing the pivotal moment she chose to pursue management over an individual contributor path. We cover the indicators of a successful manager, the red flags to watch for, and the importance of mentorship.

Amanda emphasizes the value of finding the right fit for team members, tailoring leadership styles, and developing a balanced team. Tune in for insights on managing senior versus junior engineers, promoting team members, and striking a balance between professional growth and personal fulfillment.

Episode Highlights:

00:49 Amanda’s Path to Engineering Management 
04:58 How to tailor your leadership style to your team
06:40 Unlocking the potential of your team
13:25 Keeping track of your team members individual needs
17:43 Management career goals
20:31 What Amanda is passionate about within engineering

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