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Why does everything have to be about picking a side?This week, Debra and Peter start with the long-awaited arrival of a new minister for civil society and ask what the appointment says about the government's relationship with the charity sector. From previous ministers who genuinely engaged with charities to the Civil Society Covenant, procurement and public service contracts, they explore what meaningful partnership between government and civil society should actually look like.The conversation then turns to something much darker: the intimidation and threats facing charity staff and volunteers. Prompted by the treatment of RNLI volunteers, Debra and Peter discuss the pressures facing organisations working with refugees and asylum seekers, the difference between legitimate protest and intimidation, and what happens when people simply trying to help others become targets themselves.That leads into a wider conversation about asylum, communities and our increasingly polarised public debate. Can we acknowledge people's fears while still treating those seeking refuge with humanity? Why does recognising complexity so often get interpreted as choosing a side? And have we lost the ability to accept that two things can be true at the same time?And then there's the question of men. From mob mentality and violence to football, cricket and the need to belong, Debra and Peter begin unpacking a much bigger question about masculinity, identity and where men find their sense of community. It's a subject they promise to return to, because 30 minutes was definitely not going to be enough.Plus: Peter attempts to relive his student days in Leeds, only to be informed by Wanless Junior that he's embarrassing himself, Somerset continue to put him through emotional turmoil, and he's off to Switzerland with plans for a spot of Alpine yodelling.And finally, this episode lands on the eve of Debra and Peter's birthday. Happy birthday for tomorrow to the podcast Twinnies! 🎂🎂Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 80! Let’s talk about sector, baby. Let’s talk about you and me. Or, according to Debra’s AI transcript, perhaps we’d better not.Yes, artificial intelligence has been hard at work at DSC, where the Third Sector Awards have somehow become the rather more intriguing “Third Sex Awards”. But once Debra and Peter have recovered from that, they turn to a much bigger question: do we really believe in second chances?With Harry and Meghan potentially returning to the UK, Debra wonders why some public figures become permanent pariahs. Peter suggests separating three things we often bundle together: forgiveness, forgetting and redemption. Can we forgive without forgetting? Who gets to decide when someone has redeemed themselves? And does genuine remorse have to come first?The conversation moves from the Royal Family to cricket, criminal justice and rehabilitation, exploring what happens when someone’s past behaviour clashes with our values, even when we claim to believe that people can change.They also ask what punishment is actually for. With prisons under increasing pressure, should our focus be on locking people away for longer, or on creating genuine opportunities for rehabilitation? And what happens when we stop seeing the human being and see only the crime they committed?There’s particular praise for the charities working in criminal justice, supporting people and causes that are often deeply unpopular while continuing to believe that change is possible.Plus, Ebbsfleet United are alive and actually playing football, Somerset are dreaming of making history, Peter is distributing enough home-grown vegetables to survive a minor apocalypse, and both hosts confront the increasingly unavoidable evidence that they may, in fact, be getting older.All this and more in Episode 80 of Debra and Peter are doing a Podcast!Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 79! The Ebbsfleet United cliffhanger continues, Somerset have finally proved they can win without Craig Overton, and Peter commits what may be his greatest sporting faux pas yet by congratulating a new father without actually asking the baby's name.From there, Debra and Peter turn to politics and welfare, looking at Reform UK's proposals and the wider debate about benefits, employment and public spending.Should welfare be seen simply as a cost, or as an investment in helping people participate in society? Are people out of work because they lack motivation and skills, or because the jobs, support and reasonable adjustments they need simply are not there? And should the focus be less on changing people and more on changing the systems and employers around them?They also discuss proposals for compulsory community or voluntary work, and what that could mean for charities. Volunteering might provide valuable pathways into employment, but charities cannot simply be handed thousands of people and expected to support them at no cost.Along the way, they reflect on organisational resilience, the risks of depending too heavily on one key person, and how leaders like Andy Burnham can maintain authenticity when every word they say is under scrutiny.Plus, Debra shares a truly unforgettable story from the Youth Training Scheme involving a young colleague, a telephone message and rather too much information about where Debra was at the time.And a reminder that Peter will be chairing the DSC Charity Leadership and Governance Summit on 7 and 8 October, covering strategy, sustainable leadership, accountability, reputation, power, culture, AI and much more.Find out more and book your place:https://www.dsc.org.uk/event/the-dsc-charity-leadership-and-governance-summit/All this and more in Episode 79 of Debra and Peter are doing a Podcast!Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 78! Peter is marking 40 years since his first day in the Civil Service, Debra is celebrating 25 years at DSC, and Ebbsfleet United are facing a very uncertain future.The conversation then turns to the death of Jason Arday and the intense scrutiny he faced. Debra and Peter discuss racism, media responsibility, public shaming and what happens when the person at the centre of a story gets lost behind the headlines.They also reflect on the pressure that comes with leadership and public life. How much resilience should we expect people to have? What responsibility do organisations and trustees have to support leaders when they are under attack? And should we simply accept media pile-ons as part of the territory?Finally, Peter looks back at his own route into the Civil Service as Debra and Peter discuss diversity, merit and widening access. Does actively looking for people from underrepresented backgrounds mean lowering standards, or does it simply help us find talent that might otherwise be overlooked?Plus, why experience does not always mean having the answers, why most things are recoverable, and a cliffhanger over the future of Ebbsfleet United.All this and more in Episode 78 of Debra and Peter are doing a Podcast!Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 77! Spain are World Cup champions, and the conspiracy theories have managed more attempts than Argentina did.Debra and Peter begin by reflecting on what football can teach us about winning, losing and leadership. From there, the conversation turns to why people cling to explanations even when the evidence points elsewhere, and how easily the madness of crowds can take hold.They also explore mistakes, psychological safety and the challenge of creating organisations where people genuinely feel able to speak honestly. Why do staff sometimes hide mistakes even when they know they will not be punished? And how can leaders tell whether their culture is truly open, rather than simply assuming it is?Finally, the discussion moves to Andy Burnham’s new government, devolution and the place of charities and civil society in a changing political landscape. With power shifting around the country, Debra and Peter ask whether this is a bold new chapter or whether, in the spirit of The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, the sector is still being treated like a small and largely overlooked planet.All this and more in Episode 77 of Debra and Peter are doing a Podcast!Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 76! England's World Cup dream may have ended in the final minutes, but Debra and Peter's conversation about courage, leadership and speaking up couldn't be more timely.After reflecting on another emotional night of football (and Peter's hopes for Somerset's T20 campaign), they turn to a much more serious topic: the growing impact of polarisation on charities.Prompted by the Charity Commission's latest research and the tragic death of Ann Widdecombe, Debra and Peter discuss how increasing hostility in public life is affecting charities, from security costs and online abuse to the psychological impact on leaders and staff. Should charities continue speaking out when doing so carries personal risks? How can trustees better support their teams? And where should organisations draw the line when deciding whether to remain on platforms like X?With a new Prime Minister about to take office, they also share practical public affairs advice on building relationships across politics and why charities should always think beyond today's headlines.All this and more in Episode 76 of Debra and Peter are doing a Podcast!Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 75! Debra and Peter are back, and this week, football may or may not be coming home, but Peter definitely isn’t, as he worries about his onions, potatoes and spinach from the heat of London.After a World Cup catch-up, including Spain, England, late-night football stress and Peter’s power cut drama, Debra and Peter turn to a much bigger question: what role does lived experience play in campaigning, charity work and justice?Prompted by the court case involving Prince Harry, Sir Elton John, Baroness Doreen Lawrence and others against Associated Newspapers, they explore the difference between emotion, storytelling and evidence. Charities are built on lived experience, compassion and a sense of justice, but what happens when those stories need to meet the much higher evidential bar of a courtroom?They also discuss democracy, citizens’ juries, Nigel Farage, political short-termism and the importance of context when people are asked to make decisions. And as the pace of public life keeps speeding up, Debra and Peter reflect on how charities can stay resilient, hold onto their values and provide stability when everything else feels like a bit of a hurly-burly.All this and more in Episode 75 of Debra and Peter are doing a Podcast!Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

How much should we trust the people around us?This week, Debra and Peter explore one of the biggest challenges facing every leader: building a culture of trust while protecting organisations from the small number of people who abuse it.The conversation begins with two thought-provoking new books. Fresh from attending the launch of Caroline Slocock's Bad Government and How to Make It Better, Debra reflects on what makes government succeed or fail. Meanwhile, Peter shares insights from Baroness Beeban Kidron's Users, a compelling look at how Big Tech has reshaped our lives and why it's time to rethink who technology should really serve.From the inner workings of Whitehall to the influence of Silicon Valley, they discuss the lobbying tactics used by technology companies, why charities can find themselves played off against one another, and how well-intentioned organisations sometimes end up tackling the symptoms rather than the causes of society's biggest problems.Prompted by the shocking case of a fundraiser who faked references, fabricated funding applications and even pretended to have cancer, Debra shares an extraordinary story from her own career about an employee whose elaborate deception left an entire team feeling betrayed. Together, they ask whether experiences like these should make organisations more cautious, or whether trust should always remain the starting point.From there, Debra and Peter discuss flexible working, remote management and why performance should be judged by outcomes rather than hours. Should cameras always be on during meetings? Is curiosity a better management tool than suspicion? And how do you create an organisation where people feel trusted without making it easy for the wrong people to take advantage?Plus: Peter enjoys an unusually lucky week on the Eurostar, Debra confesses to judging strangers' phone conversations on trains, and we discover that even wearing an ID badge can become an unexpected act of rebellion. José, we're expecting to see yours at the next Zoom meeting... 👀Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

It's hot. Very hot. Hot enough for Peter to resurrect a potentially lethal fan from the garage and for Arthur the dog to rack up a £380 vet bill after an unfortunate encounter with a bee.But the real sting this week comes from Westminster.With the Prime Minister stepping down and Andy Burnham looking increasingly likely to take over, Debra and Peter discuss leadership, ambition, succession and what happens when someone moves from running one part of the system to running the whole thing. Is the top job really the prize people think it is, or is it just the biggest poisoned chalice of them all?They explore why some leaders seem able to attract public support while others struggle to connect, whether charisma is overrated, and what leadership looks like when difficult decisions have to be made.The conversation also turns to what a change of Prime Minister could mean for charities. What happens to the government's relationship with civil society? Will the work already started on the Covenant survive a change in leadership? And how much influence does one individual really have on the relationship between government and the sector?Finally, Debra and Peter compare political succession with leadership transitions inside charities. From outgoing chief executives and incoming leaders to interim appointments, trustee behaviour and the challenges of handing over responsibility, they reflect on what makes a transition successful and why so many organisations get it wrong.Plus: the King of the North, the missing King of the West Country, leadership war stories, dangerous desk fans, and proof that Arthur remains one of the most expensive dogs in the charity sector.Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

This week begins in the garden, but it doesn't stay there for long.As Peter battles an endless supply of weeds and Debra reflects on the idea that a weed is simply a plant growing in the wrong place, the conversation quickly branches out into leadership, culture and the challenges facing charities today. Can underperformance sometimes be a sign that someone is simply in the wrong role? And is moving people on always a failure, or sometimes the kindest thing a leader can do?Fresh from speaking at the Mind Federation leadership conference, Debra explores the difference between being caring and being accountable. Together, she and Peter discuss psychological safety, safeguarding, difficult conversations and why healthy cultures require both compassion and clear expectations.The discussion then turns to Somerset Cricket's recent successes and the importance of learning from what goes right, not just what goes wrong. Why do organisations spend so much time analysing failure and so little time understanding success?And speaking of cricket, the pair tackle the controversy surrounding England captain Ben Stokes and the question at the heart of so many leadership debates: should leaders be held to a higher standard than everyone else? From accountability and role modelling to mental health and public expectations, it's a thoughtful conversation about what leadership really demands.Finally, they explore the increasingly complex role of lived experience in decision-making, following debate around the NSPCC's position on social media restrictions. How do organisations genuinely listen to the people they serve while still making difficult decisions? And why does disagreement so often get mistaken for not being heard?Plus: football fever, safeguarding lessons from cricket, leadership war stories, and proof that even weeds have something to teach us about people, performance and finding the right place to grow.Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 71 begins with a shocking confession: Debra has accidentally become a criminal.After unknowingly leaving Waitrose with two unpaid peppers and a piece of ginger, she spends the weekend wrestling with her conscience and preparing to hand herself in at customer services. Will Waitrose show mercy? Tune in next week for the verdict.Meanwhile, Peter enjoys a rather more glamorous weekend, attending the Test Match at Lord's, rubbing shoulders with cricket legends, politicians, and even The Rest Is History co-host Tom Holland. Peter may have met a podcasting superstar, but thankfully he still found time for us.The conversation then turns to leadership, resilience and what to do when things aren't going your way, whether you're running a charity, leading a cricket team, or simply trying to navigate difficult times.Debra and Peter also dive into some of the big debates currently taking place in fundraising and communications. Do the images people dislike actually raise the most money? Should charities prioritise local identity or national consistency? And does presenting people with facts and evidence ever really change their minds?Along the way they discuss Childline, the National Lottery Community Fund's latest changes, the challenge of balancing local and national priorities, and why organisations sometimes spend far too much time worrying about critics who were never going to be convinced in the first place.Plus: why RNLI's communications strategy remains a masterclass in staying true to your values, regardless of who is shouting at you.Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 70! Seventy episodes in, and somehow Debra and Peter still have plenty to talk about.This week, Peter's return to The West Wing sparks a fascinating conversation about leadership, integrity and the weight of public office. Is it simply one of the greatest TV dramas ever made, or does it remind us of a style of politics that feels increasingly rare?The conversation then turns to communications. From the Department for Education's Gemma Collins campaign to the challenge of promoting vocational education, Debra and Peter explore what makes a message land, who it's really aimed at, and why communications and policy need to work hand in hand.They also discuss the merger between The Felix Project and FareShare, using it as a springboard to explore charity brands, organisational identity and the balance between honouring the past and preparing for the future.Plus: why everyone seems to think they're a marketing expert, despite marketing and communications being professions that require actual qualifications and expertise. As Debra recalls from experience, few people can resist telling the comms team how to do their jobs. A timely reminder that José isn't just a pretty face, he also has a marketing degree.And finally, Bertie's unexpected rise through the ranks of Cameo stardom continues...If you've never watched The West Wing, this episode may convince you to give it a go.Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

After a short break, Debra and Peter are back and straight into some big conversations.Peter shares his experience attending a Downing Street discussion about banning under-16s from social media, and outlines his four-point plan for tackling online harms. From safety by design to stronger regulation and the idea of a UK eSafety Commissioner, they explore what meaningful action could actually look like, and why the issue affects adults just as much as children.The conversation then takes a more personal turn as they reflect on confidence, kindness and the extraordinary impact of appreciation. From leadership teams publicly recognising each other, to thanking supermarket staff and complimenting strangers on train platforms, Debra and Peter discuss why making people feel valued matters more than we often realise.And finally, they dive into governance, trust and leadership boundaries, sparked by the Peter Murrell and Nicola Sturgeon story. How should organisations handle close personal relationships at the top? What happens when favouritism creeps into leadership teams? And why is fairness so important in organisational culture?Plus: Somerset cricket updates, Bertie’s unexpected social media fame, and a memorable story about Christmas drinks lists gone badly wrong.Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 68! Debra and Peter are back with a slightly existential question: what exactly makes a podcast “proper”? Debra has been in a real studio, on a comfy sofa, being filmed properly, which of course raises absolutely no questions at all about the professionalism of this podcast.From there, they reflect on emotion, vulnerability and what it means to be seen, literally and figuratively, when you’re in a leadership role. There’s crying, self-image, human complexity, and a reminder that most people are simply trying their best.They also discuss the London Marathon and the huge sums raised for charity, while asking some thoughtful questions about participatory fundraising. Does it matter why people run, cycle, climb or sit in tubs of beans, as long as money is raised? And are big fundraising moments missing a chance to help the public better understand how charities really work?Finally, Debra and Peter return to Julia Unwin’s reflections on charities disagreeing respectfully. They explore protest, anti-semitism, contested causes, trans-inclusive charities, ideology, democracy and the difficult line between standing firmly for what you believe and staying open to those who think differently.All this, plus ducklings, jackdaws, Pantosaurus, cricket balls, abseiling and a very carefully managed ice bucket challenge.Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 67! Debra, Peter and their producer Justin (or should that be José 🤷‍♂️) are back after a couple of weeks away, after Debra briefly rebranded the show at the start, and there is plenty to catch up on.Peter shares the slightly surreal experience of watching his son Bertie become one of the faces of Channel 4’s Virgin Island, complete with bravery, honesty and, apparently, the need for good rizz.Then the conversation turns to philanthropy, privilege and big civil society gatherings, as Peter reflects on his time around the Skoll Conference and the Marmalade fringe events. Debra and Peter explore what these spaces can achieve, where their limits are, and why charity work often sits in that strange place between being proud of what people do and deeply ashamed that the work is needed at all.The main discussion dives into trustee recruitment, board diversity and who really gets invited into governance. Prompted by Dame Julia Unwin’s comments on how few trustees are recruited through open application, Debra and Peter unpack the habits, assumptions and practical challenges that shape charity boards. From tapping people on the shoulder to recruiting young trustees, refreshing boards without losing vital knowledge, and challenging assumptions about age, experience and expertise, this is a thoughtful conversation about what good governance really needs.Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez (aka Justin from now on)

Episode 66, and Debra is on one about four-day weeks. Quite right too, because this is one of those topics she could probably keep going on about all week (see what I did there?). This time, Debra and Peter get stuck into a big conversation about four-day working weeks, productivity, public sector stereotypes, and whether politicians are actually paying attention to the evidence. Debra makes the case with plenty of passion, Peter pushes back in all the right places, and between them they explore what really makes organisations work well: trust, flexibility, investment, and better leadership.They also talk about switching off, or not switching off, when you are in a senior role. Can leaders ever really go on holiday without thinking about work? What happens when your phone stops ruling your life? And if good leadership means building other leaders, what does that say about the people who think everything falls apart the second they step away?There is also the usual dash of cricket at the start, including Somerset being described as a model county club, which Peter is naturally very calm and understated about.No episode next week, because José is off to Poland for a swanky AI conference. Lucky sod. Apparently this podcast cannot function without him, which is both unfair and, sadly, completely true.And if you urgently need Peter during the break, do write to his cricket president email account, which appears to be the only inbox he actually checks. We do not, however, know what that email address is, so this may not be a flawless system.YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez

Hello? Is that the government? … can we talk?Debra and Peter are back just as Easter arrives, and this week they take on a question that feels far too familiar: when government gathers the grown-ups in the room to tackle a national crisis, why is civil society still so often left outside the door?Starting with the latest response to oil price shocks, they explore why business is so often treated as a strategic partner while charities are seen as the people who arrive later to mop up the consequences. Drawing on lessons from COVID, local knowledge, fuel poverty, food insecurity and community resilience, they make the case that charities do not just respond to crisis. They help design better answers to it.Debra and Peter also get into the sector's own storytelling problem. Are charities still framed too often as worthy, gentle and grateful, rather than as essential contributors to the economy and society? And if government, business and civil society are all serving the same people, why are charities still fighting to be taken seriously as part of the solution?There is also a thoughtful discussion about the risks that come with funding and advocacy, prompted by debate in Scotland over whether government support makes charities less likely to criticise. It opens up a wider question about independence, influence and the vital role infrastructure bodies can play in speaking out when individual charities may feel too exposed to do so.And finally, in one of the most honest parts of the episode, Debra offers a message for charity leaders facing closure, burnout or impossible decisions: this is not a personal failure. Sometimes survival means stabilising, stopping, or recognising with pride what has already been achieved in a brutal environment.Sharp, frank, occasionally funny, and quietly determined as ever, this is a conversation about voice, value and not giving up.P.S. This is not a cricket podcast. Or is it?Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 64! A slightly later release than usual as José may or may not have fallen asleep at the publishing wheel, but we are here. This week, Debra and Peter cover everything from leadership philosophy to celebrity status, with a brief but memorable detour into Peter’s unfolding duck saga.They begin with conference season reflections, including Debra’s trip to ACEVO and a closing keynote in Wimbledon that ended, rather unexpectedly, with requests for selfies. A true celebrity moment, even if one audience member’s verdict of "very entertaining" sparked a wider conversation about feedback, intent and the stories we tell ourselves about what people mean.From there, they get stuck into a big question for the charity sector: can someone who has led a smaller charity successfully lead a much larger one? Using comments made by Chris Sherwood as a springboard, Debra and Peter unpack the assumptions boards make about scale, turnover, staff teams and what leadership experience really counts. They reflect on what smaller charities do brilliantly, from swift decision-making to sheer resourcefulness, and why the sector still has a habit of undervaluing that experience.The conversation then widens into a broader challenge: how do we stop thinking in terms of big charities versus small charities and focus instead on common cause? There is a thoughtful discussion about collaboration, competition, hope and the danger of talking ourselves into scarcity. If charities are meant to be purveyors of hope, what happens when the sector starts losing faith in itself?They also explore visible and invisible leadership, asking whether charity leaders can become so self-effacing that they disappear from debates where their voice is needed most. Debra reflects candidly on being seen as someone who "takes up space", while Peter argues that visibility is not about ego, but about impact. As ever, the conclusion is pleasingly untidy: good leadership depends on the moment, the mission and the people in front of you.Also featured: potatoes, onions, ducks in emotional disarray, and the start of the cricket season.Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode.YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José BlazquezQuestion for listeners: inspired by Debra’s leadership wisdom, what is the correct outfit for listening to this episode? Would you wear a bikini to a funeral or a suit to the beach, or something more podcast appropriate?

Episode 63! Peter is back from Panama and, thankfully, more or less back in the right time zone. Debra, meanwhile, shares her tried and tested approach to interrupted sleep: get up, stop worrying, and let a bit of K-drama do the heavy lifting.From there, the conversation moves swiftly from sleep habits to the very real reasons charity leaders can find themselves awake at 3am. Debra and Peter dig into the stress caused by late local authority funding decisions, short-term contracts, and the constant uncertainty that comes with trying to plan services when the money may or may not arrive at the very last minute.They also take a hard look at trust and foundation funding. Are some funders making life harder than it needs to be with slow processes, inflexible deadlines and systems that work better for themselves than for the charities applying? It is a frank discussion about burnout, redundancy risk and the human cost of poor funding practice.The conversation then turns to the covenant council and what it can realistically do for the sector. Debra and Peter reflect on representation, influence and why the covenant matters most when charities actually use it, rather than waiting for someone else to solve the problem for them.There is plenty of encouragement too. This episode is a reminder that persistence matters, that charities achieve more than they sometimes give themselves credit for, and that change really can happen when people keep pushing.Also featured: a guest appearance on Martin Drake’s podcast, Peter’s ongoing duckling watch, and Debra’s honest confession that she does not really listen to podcasts. Whether she reads these episode descriptions is, at this stage, entirely unconfirmed.Comment below or email us with your thoughts.YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez

After two weeks away, Debra and Peter are back with plenty to catch up on.

First, an important update for listeners who have been following the saga of Arthur the Basset Hound. Good news: Arthur has finally been discharged from the vet, the collar is off, and he is now charging around the house like an overexcited puppy again.

Meanwhile in Peter's garden, the wildlife population is growing. What started as one pair of ducks, George and Mildred, has turned into two pairs wandering up and down the garden, plus an unexpectedly glamorous pheasant couple making regular appearances. Name suggestions for the second pair of ducks are very welcome.

Once the animal updates are complete, the conversation turns to the charity sector. Debra shares her thoughts after reading Doughnut Economics and raises a big question: why do charities measure success by growth and size rather than by the impact they actually make?

Debra and Peter explore whether income and expansion really tell us anything meaningful about success, or whether charities should focus much more clearly on the difference they make. They also discuss the government's emerging language around the "impact economy" and whether the term is actually helpful or simply confusing.

The discussion then turns to the challenges facing small charities, prompted by news about changes to the small charities team at NCVO. If small charities are so vital to the sector, why is it so difficult to fund the organisations that support them? And what happens when the collective voice of small charities disappears?

Finally, Peter reflects on the Channel 4 documentary Dirty Business and the wider debate about water companies, regulation and accountability. Who should be responsible for essential utilities and how should the public hold them to account?

Plenty of big questions this week, alongside ducks, pheasants and a very energetic basset hound.

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Podcast Producer: José Blazquez

All good things come in threes… apparently.In Episode 61, Debra and Peter explore a trio of big themes, with a few bonus threes thrown in for good measure.First up: AI and identity. After asking ChatGPT for a character assessment, Peter shares the surprisingly flattering results. But can we trust tools that are designed to please us? The conversation ranges from chatbots and child safety to horoscopes, tarot cards and the psychology of confirmation bias. When does self reflection become self deception?Then leadership. How fixed should your style be? Should leaders adapt to the people they lead, or stand firm in who they are? Debra and Peter unpack values versus personality, the danger of labelling colleagues as “difficult”, and why excellence and empathy still matter, especially when times feel uncertain.Which brings us to global politics and wellbeing. After a staff survey revealed just how much world events are affecting people’s mental health, they discuss whether working in civil society means accepting discomfort, how to reconnect with purpose, and why persistence still overcomes resistance. Is progress really going backwards, or just taking a complicated route?Along the way, we count at least three notable trios: three weeks of Debra being housebound with her poorly pup, three of Peter’s charity roles that would make anyone else lie down in a dark room, and at least three celebratory shots in Blackpool with his brother. There may have been more.We are taking a short break, but do not worry, we will be back in less than three weeks with more debate, reflection and probably another unexpected tangent.YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 60. Some people retire at 60. Others keep going until at least 67. And some of us, apparently, will still be producing this podcast well into our late 80s if the pension age keeps creeping up.This week, Debra and Peter start with life updates, including a worrying but heartfelt update on Arthur the Basset Hound, reflections on ageing, retirement, and Peter’s upcoming football-fuelled trip to Blackpool.The main conversation then turns to leadership and accountability. When something goes wrong, should the person at the top resign? Or is walking away sometimes a way of avoiding accountability rather than taking responsibility? Debra and Peter explore the crucial distinction between responsibility and culpability, the dangers of victim blaming, and why boards should focus less on individuals and more on culture, systems, processes, and risk appetite.They reflect on how risk aversion can damage leadership, why perfect leaders do not exist, and how charities can build resilience by not relying on heroic individuals. There is also a wider look at public trust, media pressure, and the unrealistic expectations placed on leaders, particularly in the charity sector.In the second half of the episode, Debra and Peter tackle the government proposal to require asylum seekers and refugees to volunteer. They discuss why compulsory volunteering undermines the very idea of volunteering, the risks of exploitation, safeguarding concerns, and the importance of protecting the independence of civil society. While both agree on the value of integration, belonging, and participation, they argue these goals must be supported through funding and collaboration, not conditions tied to immigration status.As ever, this is a thoughtful, lively, and honest conversation about leadership, power, and the role charities play when government policy falls short.YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 59!Debra and Peter are back with another wide ranging conversation, mixing life, leadership and some knotty charity sector issues.This week starts with travel tales, as Peter reports back from Dubai, including flooded Somerset rail lines and presenting to an international board. Debra shares a much more emotional update from home, as her beloved Arthur recovers from major surgery, complete with the cone of shame and a few sleepless nights.There is also a quietly heroic moment from Peter, who briefly believes he has lost someone else’s cat, only to discover a very large, very muddy feline marooned on the back step in the pouring rain.The conversation then turns to serious charity sector business. Debra and Peter discuss the risks of paying trustees, or trustee connected companies, for services, prompted by a Charity Commission compliance case. They explore conflicts of interest, why small charities are particularly exposed, and why “just because you can, doesn’t mean you should” remains a useful rule of thumb.They also unpack the realities of pro bono support, volunteers and procurement, including the dangers of false economies, being locked into suppliers, and the management burden that comes with offers that look too good to refuse.Later, a discussion about political news and leaked information leads into a deeper look at confidentiality, trustee behaviour and governance. What does confidentiality really mean in charities? When can trustees not keep things confidential? And how should boards handle sensitive information responsibly?The episode closes with reflections on leadership, values and performance. Debra and Peter debate fear versus empathy, managing high performers whose behaviour causes tension, and why respect, kindness and clarity matter just as much as results.As ever, expect thoughtful insight, strong opinions and a few laughs along the way.YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 58 sees Debra and Peter cover a lot of ground, from the practical realities of charity governance to some much bigger questions about leadership and ambition.Debra explains why board rehearsals have become one of the most valuable practices at DSC. From preparing staff to answer trustee questions with confidence, to creating the right space for honest discussion, they explore how preparation can strengthen governance without slipping into over-polish or control.The conversation then turns to ambition. Prompted by recent political manoeuvring, Debra and Peter ask whether ambition has become a dirty word in the charity sector. They unpack the difference between healthy and unhealthy ambition, why organisations need ambitious people, and how leaders can support individuals to fulfil their potential without trampling over others.Succession planning also comes under the spotlight. They challenge common assumptions about grooming the next chief executive, discuss talent development, bias, open recruitment, and why real succession planning is about building robust organisations rather than picking future leaders. Along the way, they draw lessons from politics, shared leadership models, and Abraham Lincoln’s approach to managing big egos with a clear sense of purpose.YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez

In Episode 57, Debra and Peter tackle a big and often uncomfortable question in the charity sector: how long is too long?Prompted by a recent post from Steve Allman, the conversation explores CEO tenure, career versus cause-led leadership, and why there is no such thing as a perfect length of service. Debra reflects on her 25 years at DSC and shares the signals she looks for when thinking about whether it is time to move on. Peter adds his own experience of leadership transitions and why choosing when to leave is often a luxury most chief executives do not get.The discussion then widens to trustees and governance. With the updated Charity Governance Code introducing clearer expectations on trustee term limits, Debra and Peter debate whether rigid rules really work, particularly for small and local charities. They look at board diversity, over representation, founder syndrome, and how boards can manage renewal without losing vital skills, commitment, or goodwill.Along the way, the episode takes a lighter turn with stories about celebrities in the charity world, including Peter’s unforgettable meeting with Dolly Parton and what it taught him about public policy, influence, and preparation. They also reflect on the risks and rewards of working with well known figures and why charisma does not always mean impact.Thoughtful, candid, and full of real sector insight, this episode is a must listen for trustees, chief executives, and anyone interested in charity leadership and governance.YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 56 of Debra and Peter are doing a Podcast dives into some of the most pressing and personal topics yet.They begin with an ode to the great outdoors, tree surgery, and mental health. From Perennial: the charity supporting horticultural workers, to Debra's confession about disliking winter walks, they explore how nature and mental wellbeing intersect, both personally and professionally.Then, the conversation takes a serious turn toward the ethics of AI-generated images. What happens when powerful tools are used to sexualise images of women and children without consent? Peter and Debra react to recent controversies surrounding X/Twitter, Elon Musk, and image manipulation tech. They discuss the legal gaps, the Online Safety Act, and whether platforms can or should be banned outright.There’s even time for some segue magic. Peter sets the bar high with a smooth transition from manipulated pet photos to manipulated AI images. Debra’s attempt to link the word “emerging” to the topic of mergers... let’s just say, not quite as graceful. But it gets the job done.Finally, prompted by Kate Lee’s comments, the episode tackles charity mergers. Debra shares candid reflections from her own experience with merging organisations, the emotional stakes involved, and why collaboration might be better than consolidation. Peter adds thoughts on strategic alliances, small charity resilience, and the unspoken truth about failed mergers.It’s a thoughtful, fiery, and occasionally funny episode that covers everything from manipulated dog photos to modern-day stocks.Comment below or email us to share your views!YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnline More Debra Allcock Tyler: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/ More Peter Wanless: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 55 kicks off the new year, and Debra and Peter are back after a Christmas break, reflecting on what it means to return to work with energy, realism and hope.

They start by talking about leadership at the start of the year, acknowledging just how tough the past twelve months have been for many charities. Survival, Debra argues, is not a failure but a success, and hope only really matters when it is matched with action.

The conversation then turns to charity governance, prompted by the very public breakdown of the relationship between the board and chief executive at Oxfam. Debra and Peter unpack what happens when chairs and CEOs clash, why governance failures often sit behind these situations, and how things can escalate when roles, loyalties and responsibilities become confused.

Drawing on years of experience, Debra shares practical advice for boards and chief executives, from one to one conversations with trustees to appraising chairs properly, avoiding over concentration of power and creating a culture where disagreement is handled well.

They also explore how organisations can rethink their structures, moving away from rigid hierarchies towards partnership models that value trustees, staff, volunteers and beneficiaries equally.

Finally, Peter brings in a live governance question from the world of county cricket, sparking a discussion about independence, lived experience and how boards can balance fresh thinking with deep contextual knowledge.

As ever, there is honesty, challenge, and a shared belief that good governance really matters, especially at the start of a new year.

If there are issues you would like Debra and Peter to explore in future episodes, do get in touch.

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In the final episode of the year, Debra and Peter wrap up 2025 with a thoughtful conversation about the less-discussed dynamics within the charity sector: toxic teams.They dig into the difficult issue of workplace toxicity and explore how pockets of negativity can undermine even the most values-driven organisations. How do you deal with staff groups who resist change, weaponise internal values, or quietly disrupt? And what happens when the toxicity is directed upwards, leaving leaders powerless?They also touch on the government's new grant feedback mechanism, asking whether it can really work in a sector where power dynamics make honesty risky. Is 'feed forward' a better approach for building trust and learning?All this, plus stories of kindness in the cold, a magical pink coat, the joy of Christmas jumpers, and the emotional importance of being the best version of yourself... even when you're just buying teabags.Have thoughts to share or feedback to give (the kind we like)? Leave a comment or drop us an email.YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

Kicking off with blazing rows, basset hounds and a night out with Jacinda Ardern, they explore what compassionate leadership really looks like when everything is going wrong. From Christchurch to COVID, what can charity leaders learn from a prime minister who talked openly about fear, worry and the emotional cost of big decisions.That sets the scene for the main conversation of the week. How do boards make decisions on deeply contested issues when they feel boxed in by law, money, politics or public campaigns. Using the recent decisions by the Womens Institute and Girlguiding as a live example, Debra and Peter dig into collective responsibility, disagreement on values, and the very real impact that boardroom rows have on staff, volunteers and beneficiaries.From there they move into allyship and sector solidarity. Why does a supportive letter from another part of the sector mean so much when you feel under siege. When should organisations speak up beyond their narrow charitable objects. And what on earth have Humboldt squids got to do with standing up for refugees, migrants and other unpopular causes.Along the way they talk about silent allies, the pull between evidence and moral conviction, and why separating people from decisions matters if you want your board to survive the next difficult call.If you are a chief executive, trustee, senior leader or simply someone who cares about how charities behave under pressure, this one is for you.Tell us what you think in the comments, or email your questions and ideas for future episodes.YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blázquez

Episode 52! Over 50 conversations in and Debra and Peter are still taking on the most uncomfortable corners of charity life.This week they dig into a troubling new report on harassment of fundraisers by donors. With most frontline fundraisers being women, and many meetings happening over dinners, drinks and in donors' homes, the power imbalance is stark. Debra shares her own experience of serious harassment, and they talk honestly about the unspoken rules, the pressure to land a big gift, and the moral knot of turning down money when beneficiaries desperately need support. Is it finally time for a clear donor code of conduct, and for charities to be uncompromising in backing their staff when lines are crossed?From there, they turn to corporate partnerships, data and transparency, using a current campaign as an example: a tech giant offering donations to a well known men's health charity in exchange for people uploading photos. What looks like generosity is also a way to gather valuable data, and Debra and Peter ask what charities and companies owe supporters in terms of openness, consent and honesty. Along the way they grumble about oversized novelty cheques, celebrity fundraising, and whether TV formats like Celebrity Traitors miss a huge opportunity by barely mentioning the charities involved.Finally, prompted by a listener, they wade into the murky waters of tax and the charity sector. From payroll giving and inheritance tax incentives to the way government seems to overlook the economic value of charities and volunteers, they explore how policy decisions can quietly shape what charities can do, and who pays the price when the sector is ignored.Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnline More Debra Allcock Tyler: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/ More Peter Wanless: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez

From village welcome drinks to national data debates, Peter and Debra explore what happens when good causes meet strict rules and unexpected generosity. This week they look at the ICO’s proposal to loosen restrictions on how charities contact supporters and reflect on the long shadow of the post-GDPR years.Debra argues that charities shouldn’t feel guilty for asking, while Peter recalls the fine line between smart targeting and privacy overreach. They also discuss the Molly Rose Foundation’s dramatic leap in income and the tricky ethics of anonymous donations.All that plus a new party in Peter’s honour, a mysterious sister-in-law in the annex and the perils of small-village gossip.YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

Golden jacket? Check. A heartfelt poem? Absolutely. It’s episode 50 of Debra and Peter are doing a Podcast, and we're marking the milestone in proper style.Debra and Peter open the episode with a nod to nostalgia: the John Lewis Christmas advert gets Peter all misty-eyed, and soon they're trading stories about childhood music, treasured books, and films that shaped their sense of self. (Spoiler: there are Hollywood musicals and Springsteen tributes involved.)But it’s not all memory lane. They also turn to the future of the charity sector with news that Julia Unwin is set to be the next Chair of the Charity Commission. Both hosts are cautiously optimistic, reflecting on her previous experience and the powerful potential of leadership teams that actually work together.From there, the mood shifts to concern: a new SORP is out, and Debra has thoughts. Are trustees being asked to do too much with too little? Is impact reporting realistic for small charities already stretched thin? And what ever happened to the Charity Sector Covenant that promised better relationships between government and the sector?It’s a packed episode full of personal warmth and professional insight. Plus: a silver cowboy boot makes an appearance.YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

In this episode, Debra chats with the only man who insists on being called ‘Sir’ even by his Gmail account: Sir Peter Wanless himself.What starts as a bit of banter about names quickly turns into a deep (and surprisingly funny) dive into one of the toughest balancing acts in the charity world: how to pay your staff fairly while keeping your beneficiaries front and centre.Debra and Peter unpack the recent SSPCA strike, the challenge of justifying salaries in the sector, and why transparency and trust are everything when times are tight. They also explore the eternal charity dilemma — “efficiency” versus “effectiveness” — and Debra makes a strong case for ditching words like overheads in favour of essential resources.Plus, there’s chat about restricted funding, fundraising with purpose, and how not to accidentally turn your charity into a bad high street shop. And if that’s not enough, Peter rounds things off with a podcast recommendation from the Institute for Fiscal Studies: https://ifs.org.uk/podcasts-explainers-and-calculators/podcasts Money, meaning, and a dash of Sir ‘Pete’ flair. It’s all here in Episode 49 of Debra and Peter are doing a Podcast.YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/ More Peter Wanless: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social ChangePodcast Producer: José Blázquez

In this week’s episode, Debra and Peter dive into some big conversations with their signature mix of honesty, humour and candour.Debra shares why bad board paperwork is her ultimate bugbear – and how her new speed read booklet is here to help charities do better. From baffling acronyms to unhelpful agendas, she explains why it’s not about paperwork, it’s about information.Then Peter brings news from the NSPCC’s annual council meeting and a powerful story from the Soldiering On Awards. The duo also reflect on the latest Third Sector podcast with Laura Kerby from Prostate Cancer UK, whose charity faced backlash for a campaign targeting Black men – despite the evidence supporting it. Debra and Peter unpack the ethics of corporate partnerships, public reactions, and standing firm when it matters.Finally, inspired by Polly Neate’s reflections on men interrupting women, Debra and Peter turn the mic on themselves to ask: do we do this too? What does it mean to be an ally, and how can leaders use their power better?All that, plus chutney, jelly, and a few leadership confessions.🔗 Resources and Mentions:Debra’s new book: Speed Read: Board Paperworkhttps://www.dsc.org.uk/publication/speed-read-board-paperwork/Third Sector Podcast: “How Prostate Cancer UK is dealing with political and ethical concerns” featuring Laura Kerbyhttps://shows.acast.com/third-sector/episodes/how-prostate-cancer-uk-is-dealing-with-political-and-ethicalYouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler:https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless:https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

Peter and Debra kick off with a reality check on London-centric assumptions in the charity world. From senior rail cards to £100 peak trains and the admin faff of claiming expenses, they dig into how travel costs and unpaid expectations quietly exclude voices we need at the table. If you’re outside the M25 or balancing freelance income with volunteering, this one will resonate.Then it’s leadership without the hero cape. Do leaders build success or just claim it? Using the week’s headlines as a springboard, Debra questions credit-taking in public life and in charities, while Peter reflects on sharing credit, taking responsibility and the messy reality when multiple crises land at once. Culture, policies and consistency take centre stage: brief them, model them, repeat them.There’s also a warm moment as Peter heads to an annual council meeting to receive honorary recognition, plus a wry note on how big speeches get reduced to a single line in the minutes. We round off with practical tips: why you should re-brief key HR policies, the value of acting-in-absence, Christmas party conduct reminders, and why senior leaders should show their face at socials but not stay too long.In this episode: • London-centric habits, travel costs and inclusion • Should trustees and speakers always have expenses covered • Credit, responsibility and the real job of leaders: culture, culture, culture • Policy briefings that prevent tribunals • Acting-in-absence and what really reaches the top • Socials etiquette for leaders: attend, then leave • Recognition, legacy and that one-line-in-the-minutes feelingTell us what you think or share your own experiences in the comments. If you’ve got a question for Debra and Peter, pop it below and we’ll pick it up in future episodes.YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 46! Debra and Peter wade into the thorny territory of when, how and whether charity leaders should speak publicly. From the right to protest and the importance of timing, to the realities of social media and the messenger effect, they explore how good intentions can collide with legal limits, organisational duty and a very online world.Curious about where you stand? Here are some of the questions we wrestle with:• Are charity leaders more constrained than business leaders when speaking out?• When should a chief executive speak as an individual and when as the organisation?• Does timing around sensitive anniversaries change what responsible protest looks like?• Why does the same idea land differently depending on who says it?• Is LinkedIn getting harsher for sector debate or just louder?• What does the law actually stop charities from doing at election time?Along the way: a few stories about recognition, memory and how social media shapes familiarity, plus a reminder that two things can be true at once — and that nuance still matters.Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blázquez

One year of episodes! Number 45 finds Debra and Peter in full flow, fresh from twin birthdays and a Swiss mountain of sourdough.This week they tackle a big one for the sector: the new idea tying immigration status to volunteering. Debra argues it tramples the spirit of volunteering and risks turning a gift into a threat. Peter tests the counter case to see if there is any value in encouraging connection and community understanding, before both land on what really matters for civil society.That opens up a wider conversation about how we make up our minds. Hearts or data. Speed of thought or depth of thought. Why cut through is useful, but only if it points to the right things. There are shout‑outs to smart thinking, poor framing, and the danger of letting slogans do the heavy lifting.Finally, they look at the NHS going more digital. Online bookings and video consults can be brilliant, provided no one is left out. Debra shares practical wins and frustrations, Peter recounts an epic rearranging saga, and they both weigh up convenience against the risk of missing the human cues that keep people safe.Have a listen, then tell us what you think in the comments. If you’ve binged all 22 and a half hours since episode one, we salute you and gently suggest a cup of tea.Links mentioned:• Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow • Gyles Brandreth’s Rosebud podcast conversation with Richard Osman - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/richard-osman/id1704806594?i=1000716764317 • Joanne Lockwood’s article on personal benefit bias - https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jolockwood_most-people-on-linkedin-wont-click-through-activity-7378677611574538240-pZ7U?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAAXFFmEBuE48r931JfDxY9By6LgWGDUJkvU• NHS plans to expand online access and appointments - https://www.england.nhs.uk/2025/09/new-nhs-online-hospital-to-give-patients-more-control-over-their-care/Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode.YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blázquez

Episode 44... and Debra and Peter’s 44th birthday, right? 🎂 (well, not quite, but close enough 😉).This week’s conversation covers three big themes in the charity world:First up, party political conferences. Are they really worth the time and money for charities, or just expensive networking sessions filled with bad white wine? Debra and Peter share why these events can feel unwelcoming, tribal, and sometimes downright pointless.Next, they explore a bold move: five funders teaming up on a £15 million initiative to tackle child poverty. Is this the future of grantmaking or just a well-meaning experiment with some inevitable hiccups? Peter reflects on lessons from his Lottery days, and Debra unpacks the risks and rewards of genuine co-funding.Finally, the spotlight turns to the power and responsibility of funders. From local grant officers who truly know their communities, to the tension between AI automation and the irreplaceable human touch, they discuss how funders can use their voice and infrastructure to make lasting change.It’s a mix of sharp insights, humour, and a reminder that sometimes the best birthday treat is just a pizza in front of the telly.YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 43! Debra and Peter dive into some of the toughest issues facing the UK charity sector and wider society.They begin with Peter’s joy at Somerset’s cricket triumph before quickly turning to more serious matters: the protests around Donald Trump’s state visit, the disturbing rise of racism and anti-immigration sentiment, and how politicians and the media fuel unfounded fears. Debra argues strongly against framing prejudice as ‘legitimate concerns’, and both hosts reflect on the stark contrast between attitudes to Ukrainian refugees and asylum seekers from elsewhere.The conversation then shifts to leadership. How long should a chief executive stay in post? What’s the difference between a tough job and one that makes you miserable? Debra shares frank stories about her early years at DSC, including staff hostility, and gives practical advice on tackling bullying—whether from above, below or sideways.Plus: some sharp words on government reshuffles, and why constant ministerial change makes life harder for charities.What do you think: are immigration fears being mishandled, and how long is too long in a leadership role? Let us know in the comments.YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 42 takes us from Somerset cricket glory to some of the sector’s toughest debates.Peter kicks off with tales of nail-biting wins and rubbing shoulders with cricket legends at a South African charity event. But the conversation soon widens to Freddie Flintoff’s Field of Dreams and the unseen, everyday role of charities in keeping society ticking.From there, Debra and Peter tackle flags and patriotism. What do symbols really mean? When does pride tip into exclusion, and why do flags make some people feel celebrated while leaving others intimidated? Expect frank exchanges on history, nationalism and belonging.Then it’s on to Prince Harry’s £1m donation to Children in Need. Does motivation matter, or should charities simply welcome the funds? This leads into a wider exploration of “tainted money”, trustee responsibilities and the Charity Commission’s rules on refusing donations.It’s an episode full of sharp contrasts: cricket and community, pride and discomfort, generosity and suspicion. And as ever, Debra and Peter bring warmth, candour and a touch of humour to the hardest questions in the sector.YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnline More Debra Allcock Tyler: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/ More Peter Wanless: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: Justin Martin

In Episode 41, Debra and Peter start with a surprise escape story featuring Peter’s cat Hetti, but quickly turn to a much bigger theme: trust. From mischievous pets to newly promoted staff, they reflect on how leaders know when to let go and how to find the right balance between support and autonomy.Debra shares why she prefers hiring for potential rather than experience, and why the 50th anniversary of DSC is a good time to remember—and question—your founding principles.Then, a fiery segment on meetings, sparked by England cricket captain Harry Brook’s comment that meetings are a waste of time. Debra is having none of it. The hosts explore how meetings are actually crucial to effective leadership, team building and problem solving. Expect talk of De Bono’s Six Hats, appreciative inquiry and “what if” thinking.Finally, they wade into the eternal debate: are there too many charities? Debra and Peter offer a firm defence of choice, diversity and grassroots energy, arguing that the sector’s complexity is a strength, not a flaw.Plus: cricket, cats and a few gentle digs at Thames Water.YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnline More Debra Allcock Tyler: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/ More Peter Wanless: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: Gabby Poznansky

Episode 40! Debra and Peter return with a packed conversation that moves from the cricket ground to the boardroom and into the heart of the refugee sector.They reflect on what good trusteeship really means, and why it’s not just down to the chair to keep everyone informed. Boards work best when responsibility is shared, and when every trustee knows they are fully accountable.The discussion then turns to a pressing issue: refugee and migrant charities facing growing hostility. From online abuse to threats at the office door, Debra and Peter explore how organisations can balance the need for transparency with the duty to protect staff and volunteers. It’s a sobering reminder of the climate many charities now operate in, and a call for compassion over hostility.

Debra also highlights this thoughtful LinkedIn post by José Blazquez on the subject: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jose-pablo-blazquez_refugeeswelcome-empathyinaction-charitysector-activity-7366443037574492161-EAiv?utm_source=social_share_send&utm_medium=member_desktop_web&rcm=ACoAAAXFFmEBuE48r931JfDxY9By6LgWGDUJkvUAnd for leaders heading into autumn, there’s practical advice on creating boundaries that actually work. From the “acting-in-absence” policy, to why your diary shouldn’t look like a supermarket barcode, to the now-classic glass vs plastic balls metaphor, it’s about leading well without burning out.Plus: baking, Brussels, and a few friendly grumbles about cricket.Have a thought to share? Comment below or email us with your views!YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnline More Debra Allcock Tyler: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/ More Peter Wanless: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez

Leadership comes first. When a chair walks into a staff away day, the power in the room shifts. Debra and Peter explore how to be present without taking over. Set expectations clearly, invite staff to shape the work, listen with intent, and keep your own opinions light so the team can do its best work.Then, what you wear and why. Clothes send signals whether we like it or not. From suits and ties to hoodies and T-shirts, they unpack how context shapes choices, how to show respect without losing authenticity, and why women still get judged more harshly. Zelensky at the White House comes up as a useful example of principle meeting pragmatism.Finally, volunteers on the street. Where is the line between helpful community action and risky vigilante patrols? The Bournemouth case prompts a look at safeguarding, accountability and why collaboration with the police beats going it alone.Plus: three cats testing a new cat flap, a Brussels away day with the Five Rights Foundation team, bins and fly tipping, and a nod to Amanda Jade Wellington at the Oval.Tell us how you handle leadership presence at away days, what dress signals work in your context, and where you stand on street patrols. Add your thoughts in the comments.YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 38 finds Peter settling into life in Somerset after a house move that involved three cats, upside-down beds, and a crash course in rural fruit-picking. But between the rhubarb and the plums, there’s been time for big conversations.Debra’s recent viral LinkedIn post on why leaders should never criticise their predecessors kicks off a deep dive into leadership transitions, respecting the past while building for the future, and the value of framing change positively. The pair share personal experiences, from NSPCC history exercises to 15-year-old work experience gone awry, all showing how fresh eyes and old habits collide.The discussion widens to the hard truths about volunteering: its true costs, why it’s not a free resource, and the tension between financial necessity and community values – illustrated by the Samaritans’ controversial branch closures. And finally, they dissect the Charity Commission’s report on Sentebale, exploring how governance can collapse without clear behaviour codes and conflict resolution rules.Plus, Somerset County Cricket Club turns 150, there’s cider talk, and Debra offers Peter culinary suggestions for his glut of pears.YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnline

More Debra Allcock Tyler: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/

More Peter Wanless: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change: https://www.dsc.org.uk

Podcast Producer: José Blazquez

Debra and Peter are back, with plums, pears and punchy opinions.Peter shares what it’s like to chair a global board for the first time (hint: annual accounts are involved), while Debra unveils a secret weapon for apple harvesting. But most of this week’s chat tackles the big stuff:Child online safety: With Ofcom’s new Online Safety powers kicking in, Peter reflects on years of advocacy for stronger digital protections. They take on free speech sceptics, tech company excuses, and why we wouldn’t let kids near unsafe toys. So why accept it online?Board governance: From trustee-only sessions to strategic away days, Peter’s debut meeting at Five Rights Foundation prompts an honest exchange about what boards really need to work well.Doom loops vs determination: Debra explains why she compared the Lionesses’ Euro run to charity sector resilience, and why grim media headlines don’t reflect the full story.All that, plus why apple mush is the enemy and how a heavy-duty grabber changed Debra’s life.Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Links and resourcesDebra’s Lionesses piece (DSC blog): https://www.dsc.org.uk/content/what-charities-can-learn-from-the-england-womens-football-team/Five Rights Foundation: child-rights resources – https://5rightsfoundation.com/resources/Ofcom’s Online Safety Act consultation – https://www.ofcom.org.uk/online-safety/illegal-and-harmful-content/protecting-children-from-harms-online/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

Episode 36 dives deep into last week’s hush‑hush unveiling of the Government and Civil Society Covenant – complete with a last‑minute venue reveal, ministers packed shoulder‑to‑shoulder in the Science Museum, and a buffet so petite even Debra’s good humour wavered.Debra and Peter unpack the Covenant’s four headline principles, from independence and campaigning rights to data transparency, then tackle the big questions: Will it actually put money where its mouth is? Can small local charities speak truth to power without payback? And what sort of “teeth” would keep future governments from quietly binning the whole thing?Along the way, they swap ideas on fair funding, better contracting and how the new Covenant Council could give every corner of the sector a genuine voice.Have thoughts on the Covenant? Comment below or email us – we’d love to hear your take.YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

❤️ This episode is dedicated to Jenny (2018 to 2025), Peter's beloved tabby. She will be deeply missed.Episode 35 is all about interviews – from both sides of the table.First up: preparing as a candidate. Debra shares straight-talking tips on researching the organisation, framing savvy questions and owning your nerves so they work for you instead of against you.Then: designing the interview itself. Peter explains why competence-based panels, timed tasks and values-based questions can reveal more than clever hypotheticals, and how to make applicants feel welcome while still stretching them.Finally: learning from the near-misses. Together they reflect on interviews that didn’t go to plan, confidence gaps that keep great people from applying and why the jobs you don’t land can still shape a brilliant career.What’s the best interview advice you’ve ever been given? Comment below or email us with your thoughts!YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blázquez

Episode 34! Debra and Peter take on two huge questions: why are a million UK children still living in destitution, and what can today’s charities learn from Live Aid’s 40‑year legacy?First, they unpack the latest numbers on child poverty and destitution, asking whether family‑hub plans and the long‑debated two‑child cap are really tackling the root causes, or just papering over widening cracks.Then it’s off to Wembley (in spirit) as the hosts reminisce about Live Aid’s goose‑bump moment and challenge the sector to balance headline‑grabbing fundraisers with the hard graft of systemic change. From starfish stories to small‑grants lifelines, they debate whether “band‑aids” still matter.All this, plus period‑poverty campaigns, trustee longevity at Band Aid, and Peter’s plot to squeeze in a day at the Test match.Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez

This week Debra and Peter touch upon looking after your pets in a heatwave as well as hearing from beloved family members via old cassette tapes. They also discuss leadership challenges in-depth, including the power of the spoken word, how the words we use make such a powerful difference, government “U-turns” and alien visitors. They also discuss organisational consultations, engaging with staff and listening to them. And they talk about agreement vs alignment in terms of relationships with the Board.Subscribe and don’t miss the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: Justin Martin

Debra recounts her journey (literally and metaphorically) to Leeds, where she gave a keynote to Yorkshire Funders. She dives into why funders must speak up more often, not to demand money but to influence change. Peter reflects on his own time at the Lottery and reinforces how insights from grantmakers can shape public policy in ways that quietly transform lives. The conversation then unpacks the obsession with short-term impact. What if some of the most meaningful change takes decades to surface? From the legacy of Sure Start to the language of transformational vs transactional funding, it’s a rich discussion that challenges the status quo. They also talk about leadership and culture: how big vs small organisations handle remote work, staff connection, and that classic "who looks taller in real life" moment. From all-staff quizzes to serious reflections on hybrid working, it’s thoughtful and funny in equal measure. Plus: Peter is moving house (with four cats) and Debra still isn’t over being mistaken for a lace-tablecloth enthusiast. Subscribe and don’t miss the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez