Explorez tous les épisodes du podcast Dance in Change

What does it mean to lead when the rules keep changing—and every country does things differently?
In this episode, Miranda speaks with Laura Cho, an experienced senior leader who has held both country and regional HR roles across Southeast Asia.

Together, they unpack what leadership looks like in the real world of cultural complexity and organizational uncertainty.

You’ll hear:

• What surprises leaders when taking on a new foreign market
• Why “listening” isn’t enough—and how to build trust when time onsite is short
• What to do when your “great opportunity” isn’t what your team wants
• The subtle difference between being authentic and staying composed
• Practical ways to lead across regional and local expectations without losing clarity
• When external uncertainty is high—how can you still show up and support others?
  
  

Whether you’re supporting a team across countries or just trying to help people through tough times, this episode offers heartfelt leadership insights you won’t find in a management textbook.

(00:00) - (01:15) Would you enjoy leading multiple countries across Asia?

(01:16) - (03:12) When Chinese zodiac impacts your workforce planning

(03:13) - (06:02) Leading a new foreign market: what surprises leaders

(06:03) - (09:35) Why listening isn’t enough—and how to manage expectations

(09:36) - (12:43) From silence to honesty: helping your team open up

(12:44) - (15:32) Building relationships when you have limited time onsite

(15:33) - (18:28) Why it’s not “just casual talk”—and what you learn from it

(18:29) - (21:24) When you want to develop the team—but they don’t see it that way

(21:25) - (24:32) Local vs. regional: handling misalignment with care

(24:33) - (27:36) “We can’t do this”: how to respond to resistance

(27:37) - (31:33) Showing up as a leader when there’s no clear plan and uncertainty is high

(31:34) - (34:33) Authenticity vs. emotional control: the leadership balance

(34:34) - (38:03) Supporting your team emotionally—when all under great pressure

(38:04) - (41:26) Final reflections: leadership across cultures in uncertainty

How do you lead people who think, work, and expect things differently from you?

Many leaders struggle with cross-generational collaboration, especially when it comes to managing Gen Z. Do they really need constant feedback? Are they resistant to structure? Or is there a different way to align expectations without frustration?

In this episode, I sit down with Shirley Han, a senior banking executive in APAC with nearly 30 years of leadership experience, to discuss the real challenges and opportunities in leading younger generations. She shares how to navigate misaligned expectations, involve Gen Z in decision-making, and build leadership clarity without micromanaging.

You’ll hear about:
 ✔️ Why Gen Z responds differently to leadership—and how to adapt
✔️ The “Standing Beside vs. Standing in Front” leadership approach
✔️ The right way to involve younger employees in decision-making
✔️ Why investing in young talent is never wasted—despite high turnover
✔️ The biggest mistake senior leaders make when driving change

If you want to lead across generations without authority struggles or constant friction, this episode is for you.

(00:00) - (02:01) Intro: Are You a Strawberry or a Watermelon?  
(02:02) - (05:50) Generational Labels: How Do They Impact Leadership?  
(05:51) - (07:52) How Shirley Bridged Gaps Between Senior and Junior Employees  
(07:53) - (10:42) What Leaders Often Get Wrong About Managing Gen Z  
(10:43) - (12:20) How to Align Expectations Between Senior and Junior Talent  
(12:21) - (15:46) The Right Way to Involve Younger Employees in Decision-Making  
(15:47) - (19:52) When Gen Z Pushes Back: How to Handle Resistance as a Leader  
(19:53) - (22:30) The ‘Standing Beside’ vs. ‘Standing in Front’ Leadership Approach  
(22:31) - (25:15) Why Investment in Young Talent Is Never a Waste  
(25:16) - (27:59) What Leaders Need to Understand About Change Management  
(28:00) - (31:20) Why Gen Z Adapts to Change Faster Than Previous Generations  
(31:21) - (33:45) The Most Common Mistake Senior Leaders Make When Managing Change  
(33:46) - (36:45) How Senior Leaders Can Build an Open Mindset for Future Success  

(36:46) - (39:45) Why Leaders Need to Ask for Feedback—And How to Do It Right  
(39:46) - (41:50) The Power of Creating Space for Different Personalities at Work  
(41:51) - (45:00) Shirley’s Biggest Leadership Lessons on Influence & Generational Leadership  
(45:01) - (47:31) Closing: The One Thing You Should Apply from This Episode  

What assumptions have shaped your leadership experience? And have you ever felt like the “outsider” in the team you lead—like a new son-in-law or daughter-in-law in a close-knit family?

Assumptions shape how we lead, but what happens when they don’t match reality? Whether it’s cultural norms, workplace expectations, or team dynamics, leaders often face hidden gaps in alignment that can make or break their success.

Steven Parker, a business advisor, former CEO of the British Chamber of Commerce in Taipei, and now a business owner, talked about the hidden gaps in leadership alignment across cultures and organizations. With decades of experience in global business and cross-cultural leadership, Steven shares how leaders can gain trust, align with team members, and drive results—without losing clarity.

We discuss:

✔ Why leadership that works in one setting might not translate elsewhere
✔ How cultural and company expectations shape leadership effectiveness
✔ Why observing team dynamics reveals hidden challenges and untapped talent
✔ How identity and self-awareness impact leadership and collaboration
✔ How clarity—not assumptions—helps leaders drive real results

You will hear:

(00:00) - (04:30) How assumptions shape first impressions and workplace interactions
(04:31) - (07:45) Why we have different expectations?
(07:46) - (11:20) The danger of making leadership decisions based on assumptions
(11:21) - (15:10) The hidden leadership blind spot create barriers for new leaders
(15:11) - (18:45) Are you being too flexible or too rigid?
(18:46) - (22:30) When leadership expectations collide: Who should adapt?
(22:31) - (26:15) One small shift that makes leadership easier across different teams
(26:16) - (30:45) Observing team dynamics to identify hidden talents and issues
(30:46) - (39:27) Why leaders struggle with their own identity—and how it impacts leadership
(39:28) - (41:40) Self-awareness and perception: Knowing yourself and helping others understand you

Many leaders believe that making an impact means fighting their way to the top. But what if influence could be built through strategy rather than struggle?

Nancy Chen Baldwin shares her journey as an immigrant, Asian American woman, breaking barriers in the corporate world—facing bias, cultural challenges, and leadership hurdles. Nancy is a retired senior executive from one of the largest aerospace companies in the U.S., where she led multi-level engineering organizations in a male-dominated industry. Learn how she navigated resistance, influenced beyond titles, and turned confrontation into opportunity.

🔹 How to challenge leadership without being aggressive
🔹 The key to gaining credibility when underestimated
🔹 Why middle managers hold the real power in change management
🔹 The mindset shift that will transform your leadership

Whether you're navigating corporate politics, overcoming bias, or stepping into different leadership roles, this episode will give you the tools to influence with confidence.

00:00:00 – Intro: The hidden power of influence—leading without a fight
00:02:17 – Being "The First": Walking into the boardroom as a foreign-born woman
00:04:23 – How your first impression can shape career success
00:06:09 – The myth of confrontation: Why fighting isn't the only way to be heard
00:07:39 – How to challenge management without being aggressive
00:10:03 – Redefining confrontation: The art of influencing through solutions
00:14:33 – Change starts with you: Why mindset shifts are key to leadership
00:16:56 – Top-down vs. bottom-up change: The missing piece in change management
00:20:57 – Criticism & bias: Overcoming personal attacks in leadership
00:24:02 – How to gain credibility when you're underestimated
00:29:07 – Understanding stakeholder motivations to drive collaboration
00:33:57 – How taking small risks can shape your leadership journey
00:36:42 – The secret to promotion: Why employees (not bosses) determine your success
00:39:33 – The collectivism trap: Why team players often get bypassed
00:43:28 – Believing in yourself when others doubt you
00:48:11 – Are you limiting your own growth? The question every leader should ask
00:52:30 – Dealing with resistance: How to turn workplace skeptics into supporters

Ever felt the weight of being the first? Today's guest, Yesi, chose to not be alone and not be overwhelmed. She goes through challenges with others' help and encouragements. She walks through the lows and remembers to take care of herself. In this podcast episode, we delve into the life of a trailblazing first-generation college Latina and nonprofit executive director. Her narrative is one of determination and hope, as she recounts the trials of navigating systems that were foreign to her. Instead of walking this path alone, she sought out mentors who could light the way, which led her to discover her true calling in the realm that no one around her stepped in before.

Despite facing academic to career hurdles, Yesi never allowed herself to be defeated. She found strength in the sacrifices her origin family had made. Throughout her journey, she learned the critical importance of expressing her emotions, reaching out for assistance when needed, and the profound satisfaction that comes from making a positive impact on the lives of the next generation.

Yesi shows us how she honors herself, how gratitude serves her, and the incredible difference a supportive community can make. She offers heartfelt advice to anyone listening: follow your heart, accept the trials and tribulations of life as essential parts of your story, and never underestimate the power of help and encouragement from those around you. "No one dies," Yesi said. She encourages all to take actions to honor our candid decisions in all situations. 

Here us discuss
[01:28] First Generation Identity and Becoming the Young Female Executive Director 

[06:26] Finding Passion and Purpose  

[12:36] Overcoming Challenges in College  

[14:22] Support from Family, Life Partner, and Oneself 

[20:36] Understanding limitations and Dealing with Tough Moments 

[28:08] Momentum and Influencing the Next Generation  

[35:24] "Go for it!" "No one dies..."  

[38:23] Let's do it! 


To know more about Miranda's work:
https://mirandameng.com/

一定要語言能力超好才能去國外工作嗎？如何找到工作機會，而去法國工作有什麼要注意的地方？
當地朋友說「我們法國人都找不到工作，你不用試了啦！」你會怎麼做呢？

原來我們都可以有方法繼續前進
原來我們都有能力爭取我們想要的職涯

法文不夠好，可以去
沒有歐洲相關護照，可以去
身邊重要他人要你在舒適區，可以去

沒有人說很簡單
但想做就可以支持自己、利用資源，走到自己的理想面前

#在法國工作 #法國職場 #交換學生 #出國工作 #找資源 #心態 #為自己發聲

也可至YouTube收看完整訪談：
https://youtu.be/EHj4mO2CYgg

00:00-02:47 從交換學生到在法國打工
02:48-03:45 打工的特別經驗
03:46-09:08 從打工到正職：原來不用設限自己
09:09-14:52 支持自己堅持下去的方法
14:53-18:57 在法國如何找到工作？
18:58-23:38 在法國職場的觀察
23:39-26:21 在法國被欺負的例子
26:22-32:07 法國給工作者的養分
32:08-34:19 給去法國工作的人的小提醒

職感將訪問在不同國家工作的人、在不同職能當中轉職的人、在大家眼中「艱難築夢」的人，從訪談裡裡學習到他們是怎麼做決定、走到現在的位置，借鏡他們的故事，幫助我們自己打造自己想要的職涯。

Instagram: _micareer
https://www.instagram.com/_micareer/
Facebook Page: 職感
https://www.facebook.com/%E8%81%B7%E6%84%9F-100810762705528

Pride month is here. Would you create a “pride life”? Honoring LGBTQ, honoring love, honoring mutual understanding and being true to oneself is not limited in one month. Would you choose to stay true to yourself even when it means you would be different from many people?

Annabella is a CMO (Chief Marketing Officer) who started her coaching business to support people to be authentic. Looking back, she finds being different to be very helpful for her work and her life now. However, when little Annabella did not feel “fully-French”, when she pushed down all her feelings, when she felt her identity was wrong, and when some family members  and friends could not embrace the “real you,” it was no fun.

And yet, she is now a proud gay. Someone in college opened a door for her. She does the same to many others. Annabella told everyone who once felt you are different from others “You are not alone. Be kind to others and yourself.”

Here us discuss:
[02 '15] You may not notice you are breaking the box at the moment 
[03 '37] Growing up as a person who does not always look like “fully French” in France
[06 '33] Thinking about “who are you” when you noticed your differences
[10 '09] What may happen to someone who has no one to relate to? 
[15 '03] How to become the one staying true to ourselves? (An act of kindness can open a door)
[19 '52] The best relationship you can have is with yourself
[22 '04] How to confess in the workplace?
[26 '22] Embrace yourself. You are not alone.

To know more about Miranda's work:
https://mirandameng.com/

我們都看過體壇有人突然受傷，被醫生宣告再也不能從事高強度運動；
我們也看過不只是在體育界的人，創造一個高峰後，因為種種原因漸漸下滑，再也起不來，但也不知該如何是好。

不管是不是體育界的人，在職涯裡，如何面對改變，或是當我們看到令人羨慕的工作時，我們會怎麼做？

謝謝PLG職籃三連霸臺北富邦隊，體能教練軒哥，大方分享自己的觀察和心得。

自己從體育班到個人競技比賽選手，到現在服務於注重團隊合作和策略的職業籃球，
從個人的競賽裡到現在支持每一位球員的發展，這些轉換和學習，不管是不是在體育界的我們，都能學習。

祝福每一位正在走自己的路的人，都一步一步走出自己要的樣子。

很挑戰，但我們一起走

也可至YouTube收看完整訪談：
https://youtu.be/wQOtpCzbdp4


職感將訪問在不同國家工作的人、在不同職能當中轉職的人、在大家眼中「艱難築夢」的人，從訪談裡裡學習到他們是怎麼做決定、走到現在的位置，借鏡他們的故事，幫助我們自己打造自己想要的職涯。


我們聊到：
00:00-02:28 貼身觀察勇士隊野獸，前輩的身教
02:29-04:09 職涯停損點
04:10-09:38 職涯理想和行動
09:39-12:04 大家都可以從體育界學習良多
12:05-16:36 體育人要不要出國？要不要回國？
16:37-19:44 有看到你羨慕的工作，就去做做看吧
19:45-22:28 回國後，你怎麼想下一步？
22:29-25:18 體育教練除了教動作，還有教什麼？
25:19-26:28 祝福，很挑戰的目標，我們一起達成
26:29-29:24 軒哥推薦

Are you doing a 9-5 job that turns your life into grayscale? Yes, you earn the money you want. Yes, you learn something. Yes, you have a stable life. However, you don’t feel the energy. Would you like to make some changes?

Suzie said yes. Suzie is the first one in her family choosing a career in entertainment industry. She made the move during the pandemic. She moved to different places and finally ended up in Los Angeles. In addition, she became a voice actor, a job her family could not understand. Meanwhile, growing up in a family with Asian culture pressured her to listen to her parents and pick the safe track. How did she deal with that?

Hear us discuss
[01’32] A typical family conversation when you say you are going to do something "unstable"
[06'41] How to go through the transition from a conventional 9-5 path to where you want to go
[13'39] How to take care of oneself in the transition
[16’43] Nothing is weird; Everything is valid
[19’13] Suggestions for people considering to take a leap
[27’13] 6 How to support our loved ones building their ideal career
[34’37] The impact from you standing up for yourself 
[37’55] The Next step

To know more about Miranda's work:
https://mirandameng.com/

跟運動員學習運動精神，儘管沒有保證的結果，如何堅持每一步（築夢步驟），又如何跟「失敗」建立一個能幫助我們的關係。而身為體育人，怎麼面對大環境甚至身邊的人的不完全支持？

阿鄭、軒哥，臺灣職籃富邦對體能教練，從求學時期，就不斷嘗試和評估自己在體育界各種職涯的可能，從競技型運動選手、不同運動項目的老師、到中國工作又返台工作，到現在支持易整個球隊創造傳奇，熱情未被磨滅，一直在探索不同可能的他，是怎麼一直快速整理自己，不忘初心，逐步實踐自己腦中的畫面？

職感訪問在不同國家工作的人、在不同職能當中轉職的人、在大家眼中「艱難築夢」的人，從訪談裡裡學習到他們是怎麼做決定、走到現在的位置，借鏡他們的故事，幫助我們自己打造自己想要的職涯。

也可至YouTube收看採訪：https://youtu.be/k6kisDNXpXk

00:00-01:39 開頭
01:39-02:06 職涯上累積的10年，初心?!
02:07-02:51 運動員問：「去訓練，要準備什麼？」
02:52-06:01 如何堅持每一步，儘管沒有保證的結果？（築夢步驟）
06:02-07:00 想到自己可能失敗，你會得到...
07:01-07:31 (面對目標和渴望)就做吧!
07:32-08:37 面對失敗
08:38-11:12 體育人怎麼面對大環境甚至身邊的人沒那麼支持？
11:14-14:16 一路走到大學念體育，開始探索體育職涯
14:17-19:44 體育人希望身邊的人怎麼表達支持？
19:45-26:12 年輕運動員怎麼判斷目前合作教練是專注在下一場比賽還是我的職涯？
26:13-28:46 突破環境

After you reach a point where everyone thinks you have everything, would you stop and enjoy it? I can sense that Hoa enjoys every moment to create another milestone and create more values to different people. It does not pressure her or activate the never ending competition. It is just her curiosity about "what’s else?" and the love she has for her community.

We are happy to hear about your 30-day project and delighted to form a support group. Let’s make our thoughts come true together. Feel free to email us at “innovateme.solution@gmail.com” 

Hoa Nguyen is an Optometrist, a Real Estate Syndicator, a mom, and a support to help other women walk out of their comfort zone. Since she was very little, she makes decisions to have a life she wants and be able to support the loved ones. 

Hear us discuss:
[01 '56] Keep momentum and don’t set a limit; overcome the fear of public speaking
[16 '50] When the low time comes, how to overcome it
[21 '33] Let yourself see your goals written on paper, visualize it, and realize it
[23 '24] A 30-day project. Let your thoughts become a reality.
[26 '47] Be true to yourself; methods to align your thoughts, values, and actions 
[29 '24] Teach resilience to your kids
[31 '57] Strong beliefs 

To know more about Miranda's work:
https://mirandameng.com/

Have you ever felt guilty or not being deserved for what you have and where you are? Sometimes it is a mixed feeling to move on or focus on creating what you want. When your loved ones could not experience the same quality of life, we may feel we are the exiles. A sense of belonging is reduced and a sense of betrayal is increased. 

I am so amazed hearing Tanya said “It’s all worth it.” “I am willing to experience it again so I can support those women.” I could not imagine the darkness she went through: the decades of heartbreak and physical sickness, and not knowing when this will end. I am not sure how this commitment can be made. But I am encouraged to see the sunshine in the sky. The light has come. 

Tanya Bashor, a banker and a coach helping women who are influenced by narcissistic abuse relationships. She experienced a difficult time leaving family and dear friends in her home country. Then, a 22-year toxic relationship put her into panic attacks, uncontrollable asthma, and other illnesses that she could not understand. After overcoming these, she rebuilt her life. More than that, she helps other women to walk out from the shadow of trauma and embrace the light. Tanya is a first generation immigrant and also the first one in her family transferring her past experience into a profession and a business supporting others. 

Here us discuss:

[01 '30] Be the only one in a foreign country; identity; self-doubts and knowing oneself more
[04 '00] Feel betraying origin family and country while building a new identity
[05 '46] Build a new life while “left” family and old friends behind
[19 '19] How to stay in joy and feel we deserve what we create while looking at the loved ones not being able to enjoy the same
[23 '50] Heal our own wounds and other people’s wounds
[30 '24] Transferring past experience into a profession and a business supporting others
[39 '37] Go for it!

To know more about Miranda's work:
https://mirandameng.com/

If I grew up in an environment where language barrier was high, finance pressure was rough, women tend not to be exposed to higher education, and yet my mother gave me unconditional love and trust, who would I be? 

Hoa Nguyen is an Optometrist, a Real Estate Syndicator, a mom, and a support to help other women to walk into the possibilities they have not imagine yet. Since Hoa was very little, she makes decisions to create a life she wants and more abilities to support her loved ones. She is a first-generation immigrant and doctoral degree owner. She is the one setting new norms and expanding possibilities of lives in her family and community.

Hear us discuss:
[01 '11] How to get a vision for oneself? (Journey from being a young immigrant to a doctor and an entrepreneur)
[08 '27] Build a career of many demanding business while being a mom and a minority in the industries
[09 '19] Secrets to get mentorship and supports from the established people in a new field
[14 '23] Being a first-generation
[15 '50] Being the one who breaks a undesired chain of a family
[18 '16] The biggest support and role model (trust, love, faith from mom)
[21 '22] The impact to the surroundings and next generation
[24 '49] Tools and methods to stay resilient

To know more about Miranda's work:
https://mirandameng.com/

Welcome to Dance in Change! Please be invited to listen to the unique, brave, and humorous stories around the world that are full of love, laughter, and sometimes tears. 

Recommend this show by sharing this link: https://danceinchange.buzzsprout.com/