In this episode, I’m taking a break from interviewing guests to share some exciting news—my new book, Think Like a Lawyer, Act Like an Entrepreneur, is being published by the American Bar Association in late March!

If you’ve ever struggled with marketing yourself or felt uncomfortable with business development, this book is for you. As lawyers, we’re trained to be analytical and risk-averse—great for legal work, but not always helpful when it comes to growing a practice. In the book, I share practical strategies to help you shift your mindset, build relationships, and integrate marketing into your professional life in a way that feels natural.

Tune in to hear about my own journey with business development, why I wrote this book, and how it can help you market yourself without feeling like a salesperson.

To order, click here.

In this episode, business coach Dominic Grew returns to discuss how solo and small firm lawyers can strategically grow their practices without overextending themselves. Dominic shares practical insights on leveraging time, outsourcing non-billable tasks, and using fractional resources before committing to full-time hires.

Key Topics:

• When to consider hiring support staff or associates
• The benefits of fractional hires and outsourcing tasks like bookkeeping and IT
• Avoiding common mistakes when expanding a law practice
• How to balance delegation while maintaining quality
• Real-world scenarios: Hiring a first employee, sharing an associate, and weighing contract help vs. joining a larger firm

Why You Should Listen:
If you’ve ever wondered how to scale your law firm while maintaining efficiency and profitability, this episode provides actionable strategies to help you make informed decisions about growth.

Additional Resources:

• Episode 110: Getting to No – Turning Leads into Business with Dominic Grew

In this episode of Counsel to Counsel, I am joined by Jeffrey Soilson, Esq. and Ashleigh Louis, Ph.D., founders of Quantum ADR, an innovative co-mediation practice. Quantum ADR takes an interdisciplinary approach to conflict resolution by combining Jeff's 25 years of family law expertise with Ashleigh's deep understanding of psychology.

Together, they offer a unique "two-coach" model that addresses both the legal and emotional aspects of disputes, creating a more holistic process for their clients. In this episode, Jeff and Ashleigh share their insights into how their combined expertise helps clients navigate complex situations like divorce, co-parenting, and even workplace conflicts while also fostering skills for conflict prevention.

The conversation highlights the distinct advantages of having both legal and psychological perspectives in mediation, such as the ability to understand emotional blockages that often hinder resolution and the importance of aligning clients’ actions with their core values. Jeff and Ashleigh describe how their model aims to prevent future conflicts by helping clients resolve their inner struggles, ultimately leading to more effective and lasting agreements. They also discuss how their co-mediation practice is structured to be more cost-efficient compared to traditional litigation, allowing clients to save both time and money while receiving comprehensive support through the mediation process.

Tune in to learn how this innovative approach to mediation could redefine how we think about dispute resolution.

In this episode of Counsel to Counsel, host Steve Seckler interviews Naïs Mouret, a global leadership advisor and certified emotional intelligence consultant. Naïs shares insights on the critical role of emotional intelligence (EI) and physical well-being in the legal profession. Drawing on her experience working at the United Nations and her extensive background in leadership consulting, she highlights how empathy, resilience, and mindfulness are essential tools for both professional success and personal satisfaction. Naïs emphasizes the importance of developing EI to better connect with clients and colleagues, particularly in high-pressure environments like law firms.

Naïs also discusses the profound impact of physical well-being on professional performance, advocating for small, practical steps that lawyers can integrate into their daily routines to enhance both mental and physical health. From mindfulness exercises to movement breaks, she shares tips on how busy legal professionals can foster resilience and maintain balance. This episode provides valuable advice for young lawyers on building long-term success by prioritizing both emotional intelligence and personal well-being.

Related Episodes and Resources

• Episode 139-Conquering Perfectionism in the Practice of Law with Jordana Confino
• Episode 135-Tackling Mental Health Issues in the Law with Amy Levine and LCL
• Episode 130-Emotional Intelligence and EQ i-2.0 With Susan Schwartz
• How Developing Emotional Intelligence Will Lead to Long-term Success for Lawyers
•  The Power of Physical Wellbeing - Beyond Self-help and Mental Health Practices

[Reach out to Stephen Seckler for PDF versions of articles]

In this episode of the Counsel to Counsel podcast, host Stephen Seckler is joined by Jordana Confino, a certified professional coach and founder of JC Coaching & Consulting. Together, they explore the pervasive issue of perfectionism within the legal profession, discussing how it often leads to anxiety, burnout, and career stagnation. Jordana shares her personal journey from practicing law while grappling with perfectionism to discovering the transformative power of positive psychology, which helped her redefine success and well-being in her career and life.

Jordana delves into the cultural and psychological roots of perfectionism in law, explaining how it can hinder career growth and creativity despite being viewed as a badge of honor in the profession. She outlines effective strategies for overcoming perfectionist tendencies, including self-compassion, distanced self-talk, and setting healthy boundaries. Through science-backed techniques and her own experiences, Jordana provides valuable insights for lawyers looking to achieve sustainable success and fulfillment without sacrificing their mental health.

 Additional Resources 

• Self-Compassion Guide — Jordana Confino
• Episode 135-Tackling Mental Health Issues in the Law with Amy Levine and LCL
• Episode 70-Shailini George on Doing Well and Being Well in the Law

In this episode Stephen Seckler speaks with Lana Manganiello, author of the new book Careers in Business Law: Forging Your Path to Success (American Bar Association 2024).

Lana shares insights from her extensive experience working with AmLaw 200 firms on business strategy, attorney development, and implementing innovative growth initiatives. They discuss the evolving landscape of business law, the importance of aligning career choices with personal values, and how thought leadership can be a powerful tool for lawyers.

Whether you're a law student, early-career lawyer, or seasoned professional, this episode offers valuable advice on navigating and succeeding in the legal profession. Tune in to learn more about Lana's career journey, her motivations for writing the book, and the key lessons she hopes readers will take away.

Additional Episodes

• Episode 68-Are there Gender Differences in Legal Marketing?—What Men and Women Can Learn From Each Other About Building a Law Practice
• Episode 118-Paths to Partnership in 2023 and Beyond-With Laura Terrell

In this episode of Counsel to Counsel, I'm taking a summer pause from interviewing to catch up on some projects.  I share with you my thoughts on using time blocking as a way to get to the things that are important but not urgent.

Related Episodes

• Episode 123-Setting Your 2024 Goals and Creating Your “To Don't" List with Jennifer Forester and Wendy Merrill
• Episode 57- Billable Work v. Investment Hours (Dr. Sarah Reiff-Hekking on Time Management)

Law is a conservative profession where change happens slowly. Law firms generally lag far behind accounting firms in creating new models. But since the explosion of the internet in the late 1990s, that rate of change has begun to accelerate. And with the rapid proliferation of ChatGPT and other AI tools, law will surely undergo a lot more change in the next five years.

In this episode, we dive into the innovative legal model of Aliant with Managing Partner Jacob Stein. Aliant is a global network of independent mid-sized law firms that combines the credibility of a large firm with the flexibility and profitability of a boutique practice.

Jacob discusses how Aliant LLP operates as a distributed/remote law firm in the US, offering back-office support while allowing lawyers to maintain high profit margins and operate independently. We explore the benefits for lawyers, including increased control over workload, high profit margins, and reduced stress, as well as the advantages for clients, such as personalized service and access to a global network. Tune in to learn more about how Aliant is revolutionizing the legal industry and providing a new model for legal practice.

Attorney well-being continues to be a hot topic in the legal community.  While the most severe effects of the pandemic are now behind us, mental health continues to be a significant issue in our profession. But there is a lot being done to address these challenges.

To provide some context, several years ago, the Report of the Task Force on Lawyer Well-Being, issued by the American Bar Association, Conference of Chief Judges, and other legal organizations, called well-being an essential element of a lawyer’s duty of competence. In Massachusetts, Lawyers Concerned for Lawyers plays a vital role in supporting attorneys, and the Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts has established a Standing Committee on Lawyer Well-Being to enhance the well-being of lawyers, judges, and law students in the Commonwealth.

In this episode, my former colleague, Amy Levine discusses the many initiatives going on in Massachusetts and around the country.  Amy is the Director of Programs and Volunteers at Lawyers Concerned for Lawyers (LCL) of Massachusetts. Amy has over 20 years of experience in the legal industry.  She has worked in in marketing, human resources, and legal recruiting and has a background in social work.   In 2018, Amy was one of the first guests on this podcast where she talked about interviewing.

At LCL, Amy creates programs for the Massachusetts legal community and provides customized educational programming for various legal organizations. She also recruits and manages LCL’s volunteers, who assist in running recovery groups, provide peer monitoring services, and act as ambassadors for the organization.

We discuss the critical role of Lawyers Assistance Programs around the country, the extensive range of services offered by LCL, and the impact these programs have on lawyer well-being.

As the baby boomer generation of lawyers approaches retirement, many firms are facing the looming challenge of ensuring a seamless transition for their clients. This process is not just about maintaining business continuity but also about safeguarding the firm's legacy and client relationships. Unfortunately, many firms are not adequately addressing these issues, which can lead to significant disruptions.

In this episode, I speak with a consultant who is working with law firms to change this.

David Wood is a former senior partner with an AmLaw 100 firm, who planned and executed the succession of his entire $6 million practice to talented younger partners before he retired.  Recognizing that many law firms struggle to achieve this outcome, he now advises firms and practice groups on retirement succession issues and strategies.

Key Takeaways

• Many law firms struggle with effective succession planning when senior partners retire
• Transitioning client relationships and revenue streams to younger partners is crucial
• Open communication about retirement plans and identifying successors is key
• Retiring partners need a vision for their post-law life to ease the transition

For many lawyers in private practice, going in-house is the ultimate goal. For transactional lawyers and for some specialties like employment law, the path to a corporate role is more obvious. For litigators, less so.  Most companies outsource a lot of their litigation because the need tends to fluctuate.

But litigators can bring valuable skills to a corporate environment. And there are many examples of litigators who have gone on to have successful in-house careers.

In this episode I speak with Matt Campobasso, a litigator who has built a solid in-house legal career after having a successful career in private practice and public service.

Matt Campobasso is the General Counsel and Corporate Secretary of Enfusion, Inc., a publicly traded fintech company headquartered in Chicago.  He joined the company in 2020 as Deputy General Counsel and helped take the company public.  Prior to that, he served as in-house counsel to two other companies.

He began his career as a prosecutor and then spent ten years litigating with a major firm in Chicago.

In addition to discussing his path to in-house and why he thinks litigators make good in-house counsel, Matt shares his philosophy about leadership and how he has grown the legal function and the legal team at Enfusion.

I was beginning to think that live conferences were in my rear view mirror...until I attended the Annual Education Conference of the National Association for Law Placement.  It was my first live conference in over four years.  And I was like a kid in a candy shop.

While I've made a point of going to an occasional live event, especially in the last two years (including speaking at live events), I had pretty much give up on conferences.

Attending the NALP conference changed that for me.  The quality of the networking and the quality of the workshops convinced me that going to live conferences is still an important part of marketing and professional development.  Listen in to hear my story.

Additional Resources

• Checklist for Networking Functions (before, during, and after)
• Active Listening-Do I Really Need to Say This?

In this episode, host Stephen Seckler welcomes back Gary Johnson, president of J2 Marketing Consultants, for a dynamic session of role-playing client intakes. They explore how lawyers can turn initial business conversations into productive relationships. Gary, an expert in coaching attorneys on growing their practices, shares practical techniques for understanding client needs, building trust, and addressing objections.

Role-play scenarios include consultations with a restaurant owner expanding his business, a divorcing client navigating complex emotions and custody issues, and parents of a special needs child seeking estate planning advice. Each scenario highlights the importance of active listening, empathy, and providing tailored solutions. Gary also emphasizes the long-term value of relationship-building in legal marketing. This episode is packed with actionable insights for lawyers aiming to enhance their client interactions and business development strategies.

Additional Resources

Episode 74-Turning Business Conversations into Business-with Gary Johnson

Episode 144-Turning Business Contacts into Business: Lessons From the 2024 Election 

Episode 110-Dominic Grew on “Getting to No”-Turning Leads into Business and Other Ways to Succeed in Private Practice

We’ve talked a lot on this show about sales and marketing and how selling legal services is different than selling a product.  That’s good news for those of us in the legal industry because many of us don’t like the thought of being a salesperson.

Selling legal services is about relationships building.

The challenge, however, is that clients generally don’t need your services all the time. You don’t know when a client, potential client, or referral source will have a need or hear of a need.

That’s why it is important to stay top of mind over a long period of time.  But how do you do that?  How can you make yourself memorable whether you are delivering a pitch, giving a presentation, or simply building relationships in the community.

In this episode, Merry Neitlich talks about that.

I’ve know about Merry for years, but we only met more recently through the ProVisors business network.  Back in the early 1990s when legal marketing was starting to take off, Merry was one of the pioneers in the legal marketing community.

Merry Neitlich  has over 25 years of experience in law firm marketing, business development, and strategic planning. She provides attorneys and law firms with tools to grow their business and to successfully identify, court, and convert targets into clients.

She has conducted hundreds of client feedback interviews and has a lot of experience helping firms with branding,

Merry has been an active member of the Legal Marketing Association. She is a frequent national speaker and author.   In 2017, she was inducted into the Legal Marketing Association Hall of Fame.

She is also an accomplished nationally ranked adult competitive figure skater.

Additional Resources

If You Are Not Memorable, Don’t Expect to Be Remembered

I've had a number of guests on this show speaking about leadership. A large part of this is that I'm very interested in the subject. But I also feel that this is a skill set that is often neglected in the legal profession.

As lawyers, we learn a lot about our craft in law school and even more once we are in practice.  As professionals, we are taught to analyze the law and help our clients to identify legal risks.

Our job is to be skeptical and to apply dispassionate reasoning to the situation so that our clients can protect themselves from legal exposure and comply with the law.  We work to get our clients the best possible outcome whether it is in a litigation matter or in a corporate or real estate deal.  We help our clients to achieve their personal or business objectives in a way that avoids legal risk or accomplishes their legal objectives.

But the same skills that we cultivate in practicing law can interfere with our ability to be an effective leader.

Whether you are a managing partner, a practice group leader, running your own law firm, serving as a general counsel, or managing other members of the legal team as an assistant general counsel, you need a different skill set to be successful.

In particular, emotional intelligence is one skill that you need to cultivate in order to be successful in a leadership role.

In this episode, Susan Schwartz provides great insights on that subject.

Susan Schwartz is a leadership coach and management consultant. She equips technical experts and teams with the skills they need to become excellent leaders.  Her tagline is :  Transforming expert professionals into emotionally intelligent leaders.

Additional Resources

• Episode 129-Law Firm Leadership with Kristi Royse
• 15 Tips For Leadership Success
•  Episode 121-John Buckley on Building Your Executive  Presence  
•  Episode 103-Ben Sachs on Building High-Performance Legal Teams
•  Episode 80-Leadership for Lawyers-Moving Up in Your Law Firm or Corporate Law Department

The practice of law has evolved a lot in the three decades since I graduated from law school. Technology has replace many monotonous functions and computers have replaced paper.  The internet has revolutionized how legal research is done and how law firms market themselves.  It has enabled remote work and interaction in a way that was unimaginable in the 1980s.

At the same time, there are some fundamental things that have not changed.  The practice of law is still a service business that requires a lot of human interaction.

Law firms are still challenging places to work. Clients can be demanding, the stakes can be high, and the billable hour can create unwanted incentives.

In addition, lawyers like their autonomy.  Managing a group of lawyers is not for the faint of heart and takes a skill set that is very different than the skill set needed to practice law.

So what do you need to know to be an effective law firm leader?  How can you inspire partners, associates, paralegals, and administrative staff to give it their all?

Kristi Royse joins me in this episode to answer those questions.

Kristi Royse is the CEO of KLR Consulting.  She is a nationally recognized speaker, facilitator, management consultant, executive coach, and trainer. Since 1987, Kristi has been coaching executives to be stronger leaders and helping organizations optimize their most vital resource - their people. Kristi works with law firms and other organizations to help their leaders build the skills they need to thrive in rapidly changing circumstances. She helps leaders, teams, and leaders-to-be tap their potential, improve their leadership abilities, and strategically shift their perspective.

For a long time, I’ve been meaning to invite a judge onto Counsel to Counsel to talk about judicial careers.  Going on the bench is a logical next step for many litigators and I wanted to speak to a judge who could offer some practical wisdom on the subject.

When I met Paul Wilson at an ABA conference in late 2022, I realized right away that I had a great prospect. 

At the time, Paul was still sitting on the bench, so we decided to wait until he reached mandatory retirement.

Paul is in fact now retired; but he remains very active in a number of law related activities.

In this episode, Paul shares his wisdom on judicial careers.  What does it mean to transition from litigator to judge?  What are the pluses?  What are the potential minuses?  And how do you position yourself for a judgeship?

In the Spring of 2023, The Honorable Paul Wilson retired from the Massachusetts Superior Court, the highest trial court in the Commonwealth.  He sat for over a decade on the Superior Court after being in private practice for 30 years at the law firm of Mintz Levin.

Paul spent most of his career doing real estate, land use, and environmental litigation.  He has always had a strong commitment to public service and has received a number of awards for his pro bono and volunteer efforts.

In the legal press and even in popular media, larger law firms tend to get a most of the attention.  In truth, a high percentage of lawyers in the United States practice in firms that are under 20 attorneys.  And many of those are solo practitioners or very small firms that have broken away from larger firms.

While I know that there are many lawyers who are satisfied with practicing in a large or mid-sized firm, as technology has continued to improve over the last two decades, I have seen many attorneys realize the benefits of running their own practice.

Being your own boss is not for everyone, but I can say as a solopreneur, it can be very rewarding.

I have worked with quite a few lawyers who have left comfortable law firm jobs to go out on their own or join forces with a handful of colleagues.  Most of them are happier on the other side.

The challenge for lawyers who are contemplating this type of move is that they have never run their own business.  Where should the practice be located?  What services should the firm provide?  And perhaps even more challenging:  What technology should you be using to run your practice? Should you hire anyone? What are your obligations to employees? How should you set up your books? Who should do your website or maintain it? and What things should you be outsourcing?

To answer those questions and provide some tips on how to be successful as you launch your own practice, I invited Diane Camacho.  Diane is the owner of DLC Consulting Services, LLC.  She and her team work with established law firms to improve operations and increase profits.  They also help attorneys start their own firms.

Diane has worked with many partners who have decided to break away from much larger firms. She has helped them get set up so that their launch is smooth, and they are set up for future success.

When I graduated from law school in the late 1980s, there was no internet, no email, and fax machines were widely in use.  I used a Dictaphone to generate correspondence and had an assistant to transcribe the tapes.  While working remotely was possible because of the telephone, going into an office was the norm.

In the intervening years, the rate of technological change has been truly astounding.  And while the internet, email, and social media have continued that evolution, in my opinion, the explosion of AI in the practice of law has been the most significant change in my lifetime.

Never before has it been easier to run a practice as a solo.  The array of tools for research, communication, analysis, and drafting are replacing human labor.

I’ve always been interested in technology and while I do try to keep up, technology is not my major. So I’ve invited Colin Levy to talk about the state of the art in legal tech in the practice of law.

Colin S. Levy is a lawyer and legal tech author and speaker. Throughout his career, Colin has seen technology as a key driver in improving how legal services are performed. Because his career has spanned industries, he witnessed myriad issues, from a systemic lack of interest in technology to the high cost of legal services barring entry to consumers.

Now, his mission is to bridge the gap between the tech world and the legal world, advocating for the ways technology can be a useful tool for the lawyer’s tool belt rather than a fear-inducing obstacle to effective legal work. 

Colin is the author of The Legal Tech Ecosystem which discusses the development of the legal tech ecosystem over the past two decades, and how legal technology can help lawyers work more efficiently.  In addition, he is the editor of the Handbook of Legal Tech.

A few years ago, I began seeing Colin come up a lot more in my LinkedIn feed and I realized that is was time to sit down with him and pick his brain!

In this episode we discuss his overall philosophy about the use of technology in the law, his book, the Legal Tech Ecosystem, the biggest obstacles the legal industry faces when it comes to adopting new technology, and his role at Malbek.

Additional Resources

• Episode 120-Scaling Your Law Firm with AI
• Episode 107-ChatGPT and Trends in Legal Marketing Technology-with Jared Correia

We talk a lot on this program about finding ways to build a more satisfying legal career.  While many attorneys are drawn to the profession because they care about justice, they like the idea of becoming a trusted advisor, or they just enjoy the intellectual rigor of being an attorney, status and money are important too. 

But if you are like me, one of the reasons you chose law school rather than business school is because math is not your jam.

If you are a lawyer who has been practicing for a few years and thinking about your financial health and your financial future, you may have questions about paying off your student loans or figuring out how much to start saving for retirement.

Maybe you aren’t sure how to organize your finances now that you are planning for life’s big events like buying a house or starting a family.

Maybe you are thinking about eventually starting your own law practice and you aren’t sure how to get your financial house in order.

James Grace has joined me for a very practical conversation about managing your finances as you get past the early stages of your legal career.

Jim is the Director of Wealth Management for Silver Pine Capital.  Jim worked at regional wealth management agencies and banks before joining Silver Pine.  Jim describes himself as an educator, coach, motivator, confident, coach.  He is also the host of the Modern Financial Wellness podcast.  He is also someone I've gotten to know, like, and trust through my ProVisors business network.

Additional Resources

• Episode 62- Financial & Career Planning for Senior Attorneys
• Episode 93-Planning for Retirement with Julie Jason, The Discerning Investment Advisor

In this episode, I speak with my first “threepeat” guest, Lauren Rikleen.  This is Lauren’s third appearance on Counsel to Counsel. She was actually one of my first guests when I launched the show in 2018.  In that episode, we spoke about success strategies for women and the work she has done on that issue. 

In the Spring of 2022,I invited Lauren back to talk more about her legal career including working in the field of environmental law as it was just taking off. We also spoke about what inspired her to make a career shift away from the practice of law.  If you haven’t already listened to it, I invite you to go back to episode 81.

I met Lauren in the early 1990s when I was at Massachusetts Continuing Legal Education and later had the privilege of sitting on her Standing Committee on Work/Life Balance when she was President of the Boston Bar Association.  I knew soon after I met her that Lauren is someone who is not afraid to speak up when she sees injustice.

She is also a person with a big heart who cares not only about making an impact but also about investing in the success of professionals who come from disadvantaged groups.

Most importantly, she laughs at most of my jokes and keeps me laughing as well.

I invited Lauren back because she is the editor of a new book entitled Her Honor. Her Honor is an inspiring compendium of the lives of 25 female judges including many judges of color.  Most of these  judges were women who overcame significant gender and racial discrimination to get to the bench and all of them are judges who felt a great sense of responsibility to continue the fight for racial and gender equity.

I also invited her back to talk about the important work that she is doing through Lawyers Defending American Democracy.

Lauren Rikleen is  President of the Rikleen Institute for Strategic Leadership.  She is also the Executive Director of Lawyers Defending American Democracy. 

Additional Episodes

• Episode 87-The Advancement of Women in Law with Elise Holtzman
• Episode 81-Lauren Rikleen-Rebel with Many Causes

December is a great time to take stock, hit the reset button, and do some planning.   With 2024 around the corner, I’ve been speaking with my clients about setting goals for the new year. 

I’m not talking about making New Year’s resolutions.  It's important to understand that resolutions and goals are not the same. Resolutions often lack specificity and a plan of action, making them easy to abandon. On the other hand, setting clear, well-defined goals lays a foundation for measurable progress and sustained success.

In this episode, I’m pleased to welcome Wendy Merrill and Jennifer Forester, two great coaches who also work with the legal community.  Jen and Wendy are also talking right now to their clients about goal setting and they have some great tips to share.

In our conversation, we speak about setting marketing and business development goals for your law practice. But Wendy and Jen also have some thoughts about other areas in your professional and personal life where setting goals can help ensure that you are moving forward in all aspects of your life.  They also discuss creating a “To Don’t” list.

Jennifer Forester helps lawyers avoid random acts of marketing. She’s a business development coach for corporate and consumer attorneys, drawing on 20 years of experience in sales, marketing, and client service roles with big law and boutiques. Jen lives in northern California with her two Boxer dogs and her husband, who is a family law attorney.

Wendy Merrill is a growth strategist, thought leader, and founder of StrategyHorse. StrategyHorse is a consulting firm dedicated to improving law firm profitability through alignment and engagement strategies. For over a decade, Wendy has been working with lawyers and firms to revolutionize the practice of law.  Wendy lives in the DC area.

Additional Resources

• Episode 109-Sarah Tetlow on Delegating and Dealing with Distraction
• Episode 57- Billable Work v. Investment Hours (Dr. Sarah Reiff-Hekking on Time Management)

As attorneys, we share many qualities that make us effective in representing our clients.  Our skepticism, aversion to risk, sense of urgency, competitiveness, and pessimism, can all be good for out clients.

But when it comes to building a practice, advancing our careers, or taking on leadership roles, we are more effective when we remove our lawyering hats.

As it turns out, these qualities can also have a pernicious effect on our mental health.

In this episode of Counsel to Counsel, I share my thoughts on why it is important to stop thinking and acting like a lawyer in social situations.

Additional Resources

• Stop Thinking (and Acting) Like a Lawyer–unless you are giving legal advice!
• Lawyers Concerned for Lawyers of Massachusetts- free and confidential mental health and substance abuse services for attorneys (check your state bar for similar resources in other states)
• Episode 70-Shailini George on Doing Well and Being Well in the Law

In this episode, host Stephen Seckler sits down with Carrie Flynn, a fractional CMO and growth marketing consultant, to explore the evolving landscape of marketing for lawyers and law firms. Carrie brings over eight years of experience helping professional service businesses scale their revenue and impact through tailored digital and traditional marketing strategies. Together, they unpack the essential elements of building a robust marketing plan that balances relationship-building with digital tools. 

Key Topics Discussed: 

• Marketing Fundamentals for Law Firms: How to identify your ideal client and develop targeted messaging to stand out in a competitive market. 
• The Power of Diversification: Combining referral marketing with digital strategies like email marketing, social media, and SEO to drive consistent lead generation. 
• Data-Driven Strategies: Leveraging past performance to inform future marketing decisions and optimize results. 
• AI in Legal Marketing: The opportunities and ethical considerations when incorporating AI into your marketing efforts. 
• Actionable Steps: Tips for creating a focused 90-day marketing plan and evaluating its impact. 

Carrie also shares her journey from public school teacher to marketing consultant and offers insights into how law firms can establish effective marketing practices that drive growth without sacrificing work/life balance. 

It is axiomatic that if you want to have a successful legal career, you need to learn your craft. Most areas of legal practice require highly refined analytical abilities coupled with good judgment. For the most part, the first developmental task of any new lawyer is to learn how to practice law.

But if you want to advance in your career, you need to be more than a good technician.  Demonstrating executive presence is also key.

In this episode, I am pleased to introduce John Buckley, Board Secretary and General Counsel for the North Carolina operations of a multinational mobility infrastructure company.  John talks about how building your executive presence is critical to advancing your career, especially if you want to want to take on leadership responsibilities.

In a great conversation, John discusses what executive presence is, who needs it, and what it looks like. He offers his practical tips on how increase your own executive presence.

Over the summer, I heard John give a great presentation on this topic for the American Bar Association and I decided I had to have him on the show.  Lucky for me, he accepted my invitation right away.

John Buckley has served 3 times as the first in-house counsel for start-ups.  He has 15 years of solo/small law department General Counsel experience.  He began his professional life as an engineer for Duke Power.

Additional Resources

• Ted Lasso (🍎TV+) and Lessons in Leadership and Performance
• 15 Tips for Leadership Success
• Episode 118-Paths to Partnership in 2023 and Beyond-With Laura Terrell
• Episode 103-Ben Sachs on Building High-Performance Legal Teams
• Episode 87-The Advancement of Women in Law with Elise Holtzman
• Episode 80-Leadership for Lawyers-Moving Up in Your Law Firm or Corporate Law Department

Artificial Intelligence continues to be a big unknown in the legal space.  It holds tremendous promise for streamlining the delivery of legal services and is already being deployed to expedite discovery, to help draft contracts, to assist with client intake, and to streamline many other functions that once required a lot more human labor. 

AI is now being used by some lawyers to help assess the strength of their cases, to expedite legal research, and to draft pleadings.

I know that I myself am using ChatGPT to help me prepare for presentations, craft social media posts, and to get quickly up to speed on an array of subjects that are of interest to my clients.

 At the same time, the use of AI raises legitimate ethical concerns. It also raises concerns about the need for so many lawyers. 

But according to my guest, Hamid Kohan, AI won’t replace lawyers.  It will replace lawyers and other professionals who don’t use AI.

Hamid Kohan is a serial entrepreneur, public speaker, and author of the book How to Scale Your Stupid AI Law Firm.

Hamid started his career in silicon valley where he served as Director of Business Development of Sun Microsystems, working alongside Eric Schmidt who is today the CEO of Google and Carol Bartz  the CEO of Yahoo.

More recently, Hamid saw an opportunity to bring his expertise in technology and business development to the legal world, and he founded Legal Soft Inc. in 2016.

In this episode, Hamid will answer some questions about where we are in 2023 with the use of AI in the practice of law.

Other Resources

Episode 107-ChatGPT and Trends in Legal Marketing Technology-with Jared Correia

In the past year, I’ve done a number of interviews with lawyers who have transitioned from the traditional practice of law into other corporate or consulting roles. In this episode, I speak with Shawn Hoyt about how to transition into an operations role in a corporate environment.

Shawn is someone who has thought a lot about managing his own career and he has a unique perspective on career advancement.

Shawn Hoyt is a Vice President at OutSystems.  He began his legal career as a corporate associate at a large law firm. In 1999, I actually recruited him to his first in-house legal job.  Over time, his responsibilities expanded way beyond legal.

Shawn brings an unusual perspective on how to get more from your legal career and how to transition into much broader roles.

Shawn is a senior legal and operational executive who has led a broad range of teams through periods of both rapid growth and transition. He has deep functional experience running commercial, Deal Desk, pricing, proposal/RFP, contracting, deal operations, vendor management, and legal teams.

But he has also managed People, Talent Acquisition, Office Operations, IT, Security, Finance, and Leadership operations through periods of transition.

Related Episodes

·       Episode 114-From Biglaw to In-house to Business Role and Back Again with Carl Berglind

·       Episode 113-From Litigation to Trial Consulting with Marc Diller

Episode 112-From Corporate Counsel to Management Consultant-Leveraging Your Legal Career with David Lesser

Achieving partnership was once the goal of most  law firm associates.  The rules were relatively simple.  Work hard, do a good job, and after several years, get rewarded by being elevated.

Today the law firms are more complex.  Many associates entering the practice of law do not aspire to become partners, at least not at the first firm they join.

And at many firms, there are different paths to success which don’t include equity partnership.

So, how should a young associate navigate these new realities?

What is the path to partnership in the 2020s and what are other ways to define success in private practice.  How do you get there?  What is the impact of hybrid work arrangements on career advancement and professional development?

My guest Laura Terrell has some answers.

Laura Terrell is an executive coach with over 25 years of professional experience as a legal and business leader. Prior to launching her coaching practice, Laura was a Special Assistant to the President at the White House, a senior level appointee at the US Department of Justice, an equity partner in two large global law firms, and in-house counsel at a major global consulting and business advisory firm.

Laura has led and managed teams of hundreds of people across multiple countries and has been a top advisor for many Fortune 500 and FTSE 100 companies. Her clients come from a wide variety of industries, including law, education, financial services, pharmaceutical, oil & gas, non-profit, health care, and technology.

Some of them are senior corporate executives like CEOs and general counsels; others are lawyers and consultants, entrepreneurs, and small business owners, as well as professionals who may be returning to the workforce, making a pivot to a new career, or switching roles mid-career.

Laura is my favorite kind of guest because she has such a broad perspective on the legal industry and has experienced legal careers from all sides.

Additional Resources

• Episode 80-Leadership for Lawyers-Moving Up in Your Law Firm or Corporate Law Department
• Episode 73-Managing and Advancing Your Law Firm Career

Job interviews can cause a lot of stress.  Over the years, I’ve come to appreciate that this is true whether you are the candidate or the interviewer.

The stakes can feel high.  Both sides are trying to assess whether they are right for each other.  The candidate may be imagining that they are interviewing for their dream job. They may be worried about the competition.

The interviewer may have a desperate need to fill a role and there are few candidates with the right mix of skills and personality.  Or worse, they made a bad hire and they are now trying to fix the problem.

But just like dating, neither side will really know what it is like to be married until they are actually living together.

So what are some ways that candidates and employers can prepare for a good interview?  What can candidates and interviewers do to make themselves more attractive to each other? How can candidates and employers get the information they need to make an informed decision about whether to extend an offer or accept an offer?

In this episode, I have invited two seasoned recruiters who share their collective wisdom.

 Both are members of the in-house legal recruiting team at the search firm Major Lindsey and Africa.

Amy Katz is a returning guest on Counsel to Counsel.  Amy recently rejoined the team at Major Lindsey after spending a year recruiting in-house for her old employer Outside GC.  I last spoke to Amy about her journey from big law to in-house to OutsideGC, and finally into recruiting.

Amy’s career experience includes over 25 years as a practicing employment attorney. Prior to joining MLA the first time, Amy was a Member at Outside GC, advising employers on a wide range of employment law matters, conducting workplace and academic investigations, and designing and delivering compliance training. Before that, she served as senior employment counsel for Genzyme Corporation.

Today, she focuses on recruiting general counsel and other in-house attorneys in a wide range of industries, most notably life sciences and technology.

My second guest is Amy’s colleague, Nancy Reiner who spent over 20 years in private practice including stints at two major firms.  She last served as a partner at Brown Rudnick where she worked on business, environmental and public interest litigation.

Nancy has been in the legal search business since 2008.

Today she is the leader of the Boston In-House Counsel Recruiting team for MLA where she focuses on placement of general counsel and other in-house counsel for public companies and private businesses, major global corporations and disruptive start-ups, hospital and other healthcare systems, and colleges and universities.

Nancy has placed close to 100 senior-level leaders in corporate legal departments throughout New England and across the country.

Additional Resources

• Tips for a Successful Job Interview-Live and Virtual
  
• Episode 5-Nailing the Job Interview
• Episode 91-Transitioning Your Legal Career to In-house and Beyond With Amy Katz

 The Massachusetts Lawyers Weekly Reader Rankings Awards are out, and I’m pleased to report that once again, I did very well.

This year I came in first for Lawyer Outplacement and for Business Development Coach.  I also came in second for Executive Coaching.  So the subject of awards is top of mind for me this week.

I’m happy to be in the winner’s circle and very thankful for the great clients and colleagues who took the time to support me.

But do awards really matter?  Listen in to this episode of Counsel to Counsel for my analysis.

It has been over a year since I finally left the legal recruiting business to focus exclusively on coaching.  Since the market has changed a lot since early 2022, I thought this would be a good time to invite someone who is still in the business to talk about the state of legal hiring.  I also thought this would be a good time to revisit the topic of legal recruiting in general and who can benefit from working with a recruiter.

Emily Witt is a legal recruiter with over 20 years of experience. She began her career as an in-house recruiter for Wachtell, Lipton in New York. In 2016, she moved over to the agency side and today, she places attorneys in both law firm and in-house positions.  In particular, she enjoys focusing on women's advancement in both tech and healthcare.

Emily hosts the podcast, Beyond the Legal Lens, that helps open the door to jobs in tech and health law. She also has a platform, the Advocate's Mic, that highlights mission-driven attorneys who are creating impactful initiatives in their communities.

Emily shares her wisdom on the state of legal hiring in 2023 and offers some tips about working with a recruiter.

In the last two episodes of Counsel to Counsel, I spoke with a lawyer who left corporate practice for management consulting and a trial lawyer who has built a trial consulting business but continues to try cases.

In this episode, I speak with a corporate lawyer who cut his teeth at international law firms, went in-house, moved into a business role, and is back again at an international law firm.

Carl Berglind is a Shareholder with Greenberg Traurig’s Health Care & FDA group. He is based in Denver, Colorado. He focuses his practice on M&A and other complex transactions in the healthcare industry,  representing both sellers and investors.

In his business roles, Carl served as the CEO of an early stage animal health / AgTech company.  He was also VP of M&A of a private equity backed ophthalmology platform, and Senior Vice President of Strategic Transactions at a Fortune 500 diversified health care services company.

Carl was born in Sweden, and grew up in New York, Copenhagen, and Brussels. He speaks fluent Swedish and conversationally fluent French and Danish. He uses his background by working with international clients in addition to his domestic health care transactional practice.

Additional Resources

• Episode 113-From Litigation to Trial Consulting with Marc Diller
• Episode 112-From Corporate Counsel to Management Consultant-Leveraging Your Legal Career with David Lesser
• Episode 96-David Abromowitz-Practicing Law in the Public Interest at an AmLaw200 Firm

In Episode 112 of Counsel to Counsel, I spoke with David Lesser, a corporate lawyer who transitioned into management consulting and quit his day job as a corporate lawyer. 

In this episode, I speak with a litigator who has transitioned into jury and trial consulting while keeping his day job as a litigator.

Marc Diller is the managing partner of Diller Law, LLP. He concentrates his practice on plaintiff side wrongful death and catastrophic bodily injury cases. As a partner with Total Trial Solutions in Massachusetts, he also acts as a trial consultant to other well-respected trial attorneys. 

Marc serves on the Executive Committee for the Massachusetts Academy of Trial Attorney and as chair of the Judicial Administration Section Council of the Massachusetts Bar Association.  He has been involved in some of the largest jury verdicts in the state of Massachusetts.

Related Episodes

• Episode 112-From Corporate Counsel to Management Consultant-Leveraging Your Legal Career with David Lesser
• Episode 104-Freelance Lawyering and Returning to Work with Montage Legal
• Episode 56-Practicing Law with a Side Hustle (“Mindful Return”)

When lawyers approach me to speak about their careers, one question they often ask is “what else can I do with my law degree”.

The answer to that question is of course complex.  As lawyers, we are trained to spot legal issues, evaluate risk, document deals, and litigate disputes.  Most employers are not actively recruiting lawyers to do anything other than practice law.

But that is not to say that lawyers are destined to be lawyers for eternity.  As a lawyer, you do develop transferable skills that can make you valuable in other ways.

The challenge, of course, is to figure out what that transition should look like and how you can best execute a job search when your resume speaks largely to the legal work you have done.

One approach to find a bridge. Look for opportunities in an industry that you are already familiar with. Another approach is to take the experience you have in doing certain types of work and find something that leverages that experience.

That is what my guest, David Lesser, did after a long and successful career as a corporate and finance attorney.

David spent 17 years practicing in several large firms; but for the last several decades, he has run his own business consulting firm.  He and I discuss how he made that transition, what were some of the challenges, what lessons he took from the practice of law, and what advice he has for anyone thinking of moving out of private practice.

David Lesser is the founder and managing partner of the Klarian Capital Group in Chicago. He provides an array of management consulting services to small and middle market companies.  He helps his clients  with operational, financial, and strategic planning issues.

I recently met Dave at a meeting of our ProVisors networking group and we soon discovered that we both grew up in the same town on Long Island. We also figured out that he was the water polo coach of one of the kids in my grade.  More importantly, I was intrigued by the fact that he actually enjoyed being a lawyer when he left the practice.  He didn’t run from the law.

Addition Resources

• Episode 104-Freelance Lawyering and Returning to Work with Montage Legal
• Episode 103-Ben Sachs on Building High-Performance Legal Teams
• Episode 56-Practicing Law with a Side Hustle (“Mindful Return”)

In this episode of Counsel to Counsel, host Stephen Seckler is joined by Susanne Aronowitz, a senior consultant with Beard Strategies and a Professional Certified Coach, to discuss career transitions and job satisfaction for lawyers. Susanne shares her journey from employment attorney to career coach, offering insights drawn from her 25 years of experience. Together, they explore how lawyers can address career dissatisfaction, identify whether issues are fixable within their current role, and recognize when it’s time to move on. Susanne also provides actionable advice on navigating involuntary job loss, reframing layoffs as opportunities for growth, and leveraging networking for successful transitions.

The conversation covers strategies for improving job satisfaction, such as proposing changes to employers, adjusting responsibilities, and exploring complementary practice areas. Susanne highlights the importance of self-care and managing negative self-talk during career transitions, as well as practical steps for processing emotions and maintaining professionalism in the face of job loss. Packed with valuable tips and inspiring success stories, this episode offers a roadmap for lawyers seeking fulfillment and balance in their careers. Don’t miss Susanne’s expert guidance on turning challenges into opportunities! For more information, visit Susanne's website or contact her directly.

Additional Resources

• Strategies for Prioritizing Well-Being in Attorney Job Searches and Career Development
• Episode 142-Winning in Your Own Court with Dena Lefkowitz
• Episode 135-Tackling Mental Health Issues in the Law with Amy Levine and LCL

·  

Relationship building is the key to growing your practice. But who should you be focusing on when it comes to relationship building?  In this episode, Steve Seckler explains how the acronym C.H.I.L.L. can help you to make smart choices in finding the "right" professional relationships to cultivate.

Additional Resources

• Episode 100-Word of Mouth Marketing with Michael Katz
• Episode 85-Peristence, Follow-Up, and Avoiding Fatal Attraction-Tips for Building Your Business Relationships
• Inexpensive Ways to Build Business Relationships

Like most lawyers, I went to law school because I wanted to enter an honorable profession.  I wanted to have a career where the emphasis is on intellect and not on business.  Not long after graduation, I realized that law IS a business and if you want to be successful, being a great lawyer is not enough.  You need to learn how to run your practice efficiently.  You need to learn how to manage people. And you need to learn how to sell your services. 

If you can master those skills, your chances of success will greatly increase.

As I’ve noted many times on this program, sales is one area where many of us feel uncomfortable.  As attorneys, we are supposed to be above that.  People should hire us because we are good at what we do.  

In reality, that is not the way the world works.  Just like practicing law requires a unique set of skills, so does selling our services.

In this episode of Counsel to Counsel, Dominic and I discuss the business of law and some of the ways we can be more successful in our sales process.

Dominic Grew is the Founder & Owner of Elevate Business Coaching, LLC.  He is an expert in business management and business development. 

Prior to opening Elevate, he spent more than 25 years working internationally in the insurance and investment management sectors.  As a former COO for Global Business Development, he learned how to scale to operational excellence and to prioritize and execute growth initiatives for complex and competing practice areas. 

Today, as Founder of Elevate Business Coaching, he partners with law firms and their lawyers to build, grow, and manage thriving practices.   Dominic’s tools of choice are coaching, training and facilitation.  He prides himself on bringing an outside perspective to the business of law, teaching attorneys to work smarter rather than harder to accomplish their business goals. 

Additional Resources

• Episode 100-Word of Mouth Marketing with Michael Katz
• Episode 74-Turning Business Conversations into Business

This episode was recorded during Well-Being Week in Law 2023.  In Massachusetts and around the country, there are a lot of programs being offered to get lawyers thinking about the many mental health challenges that are widespread in the legal community.  This particular week was designated to align with Mental Health Awareness Month which is May, and many organizations ran workshops and gatherings to talk about depression, substance abuse, anxiety, stress and a host of other topics.

Underlying many of these issues is having too much to do and too little time to get it done.  Many lawyers need tools for effectively managing their time and dealing with overwhelm. 

In this episode of Counsel to Counsel, I spoke with Sarah Tetlow of Firm Focus who gave some great tips on delegation, dealing with interruptions, and generally managing our time more effectively. Sarah is an expert on the subject.

Sarah is an experienced productivity consultant, trainer, and international speaker for attorneys and other busy professionals. Through one-on-one consulting, strategic planning, workshops, and group trainings, Sarah works with attorneys, law firms, and busy professionals to find personalized ways in which to manage one’s day with a proactive and focused approach.

Sarah is also the creator of the ARTT® Email Productivity system and course which she discussed in this episode.

Through Sarah’s passion for focused work and her unique and sympathetic coaching approach, she helps her clients change their behavior and reduce their stress and anxiety.

Additional Resources

• Episode 97-What Law Firms Can Learn From Corporate America About Well-Being
• Episode 70-Shailini George on Doing Well and Being Well in the Law
• Episode 64-Building Your Practice and Your Management Skills with Mindful Communication
•  Episode 57- Billable Work v. Investment Hours (Dr. Sarah Reiff-Hekking on Time Management)
•  Episode 37-Managing Anxiety in a Time of Crisis

In this Episode of Counsel to Counsel, I'm bringing you the feed from Steve Fretzin's great podcast, Be That Lawyer.

Steve is an outstanding business development coach for attorneys. He is an author and friend who has taught me a lot about BD coaching.

In this episode, Steve interviews me about why coaching can be a great tool to help lawyers achieve higher levels of career satisfaction and marketing success.  I talk about one of my favorite topics: why lawyers need to wear a different hat when they are not giving out legal advice (and why that can be hard for some attorneys.)

Steve has been a guest on Counsel to Counsel and this is my second time as a guest on Be That Lawyer. Steve has also been great about inviting me to participate on his panel of attorney coaches called Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner.

He is a practitioner of co-opetition and very generous with his time.

Additional Episodes

• Steve Seckler: Coaching to the Next Level (on Be That Lawyer)
• Episode 44-Getting the Most from Networking Meetings and Troikas (Steve Fretzin on Counsel to Counsel)

 I don’t spend a lot of time talking about technology on this podcast. But I use technology all the time to manage my business and to increase my marketing efficiency. In fact technology is a critical reason why I am able to operate as a solo and while I don’t have to outsource much of my own marketing.

While I haven’t focused on technology on Counsel to Counsel, my interest in technology is actually high. And when the next shiny object comes into my consciousness, I’m often intrigued.

In general, I’m not an early adopter. I’d rather let others do the beta testing.  But in the four months since we heard about ChatGPT, I’ve been meaning to give it a try.  And this month I finally did.  And what I discovered blew me away.

So I figured this was a good time to invite back Jared Correia, a legal tech guru who gave me my start in podcasting 5 years ago.  Jared was last on Counsel to Counsel in 2020 when he spoke about podcasting as a marketing tool. You can hear him on Episode 34.

Jared has also been kind enough to have me on both of his great podcasts, The Legal Toolkit which is sponsored by the Legal Talk Network, and the Non-eventcast Podcast hosted by Above the Law.

Jared Correia is the founder & CEO of Red Cave Law Firm Consulting, which provides business management consulting to attorneys directly, and through partnerships with bar associations.  He is also the cofounder & COO of Gideon Software, a technology company that offers chat-based intake, qualification, scheduling and document assembly services to law firms.

And he was a pioneer in legal podcasting.

Jared is all about helping  law firms improve their operations and grow their businesses.  Part of that includes helping lawyers be more effective in leveraging technology.  He’s been a huge help to me as well when I have technology questions.

Today, Jared will give a quick overview of ChatGPT and how it can help you streamline your marketing.  And while I have him here, I’m going to pick Jared’s brain about other marketing. 

So today will be a high level overview of the tools that you should have to ensure marketing success.  You should listen to the Non-Eventcast if you want to get a lot more depth.

Additional Episodes

• Episode 34-Podcasting as a Legal Marketing Tool -Jared Correia on Counsel to Counsel
  
• How Coaching Can Help Attorneys Increase Career Satisfaction-Stephen Seckler on the Legal Toolkit
• Referral Marketing and Marketing Technology-Stephen Seckler on the ATL’s Non-Eventcast

Coaching is a field that has exploded since I graduated from law school in the late 1980s.  There are now life coaches, business coaches, executive coaches, marketing coaches, career coaches, and coaches like me who borrow a little from each. 

Coaching is about achieving your goals and moving past roadblocks that are getting in the way of your success. A good coach is a sounding board and holds you accountable to your stated goals.  But not every coach uses the same tools or focuses on the same things.

My own focus is helping lawyers to stop thinking like a lawyer when they are not giving legal advice.

In this episode, I speak with a career leadership coach who takes a different approach from my own.  She talks about her approach to attorney coaching, why attorneys make good clients, and how she helps lawyers manage their energy to move towards their goals.

Emily Hirsekorn is a certified career leadership coach who works with attorneys. She speaks regularly on authentic leadership, work-life balance, career fulfillment, confidence, and energy management.

After earning her JD, she represented educational institutions in employment law and special education matters. She then left the practice to conduct anti-bias education, and soon after, moved into law school career development at the University of San Diego where she worked for six years. 

In 2020 Emily launched her coaching business and now lives in her hometown of Kansas City with her husband, two children, and two rescue pups

She is passionate about disrupting outdated legal industry norms, advancing women in male-dominated industries, anti-bias education, and animal rescue.

Additional Resources

• Energy Leadership Assessment (mentioned in the episode)
• Emily Hirsekorn's Career Accelerator for Lawyers Who Lead

In this episode, I'm very pleased to welcome back Kevin Agnew.  I spoke with Kevin just about a year ago about his career path.  We talked about the career services program he runs at one of the largest firms in the world, and he shared many pearls of wisdom for lawyers who are navigating their careers in private practice. If you haven’t heard it, you may want to go back and listen to Episode 83 first.

Kevin Agnew is Director of Attorney Career Services at Latham and Watkins, an international law firm with almost 3000 lawyers. He runs the firm's career design program and oversees the global Alumni Program. In a confidential coaching environment. He works with attorneys on the full range of career issues.  Kevin created the program and now offers services to attorneys at the firm, firm alumni, and friends of the firm.

In this episode, we continue the conversation we started and focus more on what success looks like in private practice.

Additional Resources

• Episode 83-Career Services at Latham & Watkins-How One Law Firm is Creating New Models for Success
• Episode 91-Transitioning Your Legal Career to In-house and Beyond With Amy Katz
• Take Steve Seckler's career assessment and sign up for a complimentary discovery session
• Career Paths: Mapping Out Your Future (Program Notes from a Boston Bar Association Panel Discussion)

I really enjoy stories about lawyers who have taken their careers on a less traditional path. I especially enjoy speaking with lawyers who have done some very unlawyerly and more entrepreneurial things. At the same time, I’m always looking for guests who can speak to my audience about alternative ways to practice, particularly when it involves better work life balance. My guest in this episode, Erin Giglia,  has deep knowledge about both subjects.

Erin practiced at several major firms in Southern California until she co-founded Montage Legal Group in 2009. Montage Legal Group is a nationwide network of experienced contract/freelance attorneys with impressive credentials from top law schools and training in prestigious law firms. Montage’s attorneys assist law firms with temporary and substantive legal projects on an hourly basis, providing a cost-effective way to manage case overflow.

Erin talks about building her business. She also discusses how lawyers, particularly women, can get back into the work force after an extended break.

In this episode, I speak with Ben Sachs of the Landing Group.    Ben is the author of a terrific new book entitled: All Rise-Practical Tools for Building High-performance Legal Teams.

In the conclusion of the book Ben writes:  For many attorneys, the legal work is their comfort zone.  They would rather be consumed by case law, deal papers, policy memos, or other traditional billable tasks then have to navigate a tricky issue of team dynamics or dysfunction.

In this episode, Ben addresses those issues head on and why good leaders need to change these attitudes.  He also talks about his own alternative legal career.

Ben Sachs is President of The Landing Group.  He is an expert in management, strategy, negotiation, and communication. He serves on the teaching faculty of the University of Virginia School of Law, offering courses on negotiation, public speaking, and legal ethics. Ben also provides consulting and training services for government and private sector organizations in the United States and internationally. His past clients cover a wide range of industries, from law firms to telecommunications providers to retail and more.

Additional Resources

• 15 Tips For Leadership Success
• Episode 80-Leadership for Lawyers-Moving Up in Your Law Firm or Corporate Law Department
• Episode 89-Carol Marzouk-The Executive Lion Tamer

In this episode, I'm coming off of a string of marketing successes. Therefore, instead of interviewing someone else, I've decided to share my experiences.

The Reader's Digest version is that most lawyers who achieve marketing success do so through a variety of channels. The important thing is to choose the channels where you'll find your clients and referral sources.

But it is equally important to choose activities that you like.

In the end, you won't be able to predict which ones will work and which ones won't.  And that is to be expected.

Related Episodes

• Episode 100-Word of Mouth Marketing with Michael Katz
• Episode 79-Digital Marketing for Your Law Firm: Getting the Right Mix
• Episode 74-Turning Business Conversations into Business
• Episode 63-LinkedIn in 30 Minutes (with Kristyn Brophy)
• Episode 44-Getting the Most from Networking Meetings and Troikas

In this episode of the Counsel to Counsel podcast, host Stephen Seckler engages with Nancy Capistran, founder of Capistran Leadership and a Vistage chair, to delve into the transformative impact of peer advisory groups and executive coaching. Nancy, an internationally certified executive coach and crisis advisor, is renowned for her commitment to Expanding Human Excellence®. She is also the author of the best-selling book Open Your Eyes and LEAD: Hardship and Wisdom Shape the Best Leaders in Life, which offers insights into overcoming challenges to achieve exceptional results.

In this conversation, Nancy shares how group coaching fosters leadership growth through collaborative learning, diverse perspectives, and collective problem-solving. She also distinguishes between group and one-on-one coaching, emphasizing how each format can transform leaders both personally and professionally. Whether you’re a legal professional or a business executive, this episode provides practical insights into leadership development and maximizing your potential.

Additional Resources

• Episode 130-Emotional Intelligence and EQ i-2.0 With Susan Schwartz
• Episode 129-Law Firm Leadership with Kristi Royse
• Ted Lasso (?TV+) and Lessons in Leadership and Performance
• 15 Tips for Leadership Success

When I work with lawyers who are doing career exploration, I always encourage them to have informational interviews with attorneys who can give them some perspective.  The lawyers who have the best career perspective are attorneys who have varied work experience.  My guest, Linda Ricci, is an attorney who has A LOT of that perspective.

Linda Ricci is a partner with the law firm Greenberg Traurig which she joined in the Spring of 2021.  Prior to that, she spent 15 years as an Assistant United States Attorney in Boston.

Linda began her legal career with two federal court clerkships, worked for two other major law firms, and spent two years as in-house counsel prior to joining the US Attorney’s office.

Today, she focuses her practice on white collar criminal defense, including matters related to corporate compliance, internal investigations, and government investigations.

I invited Linda to talk about the career lessons she has learned working in several public sector jobs, three different law firms, and a stint in-house.

Additional Resources

• Episode 78-Transitioning to General Counsel-Career Lessons from a Litigator
• Episode 50-A Late Career Shift to Public Service
• Episode 38-Breaking the Glass Ceiling on a Part-time Schedule

In this episode, Michael Katz, returns to Counsel to Counsel after a 3 year hiatus. In 2019, Michael and I spoke about how to use newsletters as an effective marketing tool. Check out Episode 29 of this podcast.

Newsletters have only grown in value, especially during the pandemic when in-person marketing went away.

As many of us have resumed in-person activities, however, live relationship building is moving back to center stage. Of course it never truly went away and Zoom made sure of that. But more than ever, we now have the chance to build strong referral relationships by participating in activities that we enjoy.

One of the challenges of relationship building is how to stay top of mind so that our prospective clients and referral sources will think of us when they hear about an opportunity that is right for us.

If you are like me, it is easy to deliver a lengthy discourse when someone asks what you do. In all likelihood, you do a lot of things. And some of those things are actually hard to explain.

While a lengthy discourse may be effective when you are making a closing argument in a $200 million dollar theft of trade secrets case, it’s probably not effective for generating referrals.

So how do you make a lasting impression on someone so they will tell someone else to call you?

Michael Katz has some great tips on that very subject.

Michael Katz is an award-winning humorist and former corporate marketer. His company is Blue Penguin Development and he is founder and Chief Penguin. Michael specializes in coaching professional service firms and solos in improving their marketing.

Since launching Blue Penguin in 2000, Michael has been quoted in The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, Business Week Online, Bloomberg TV, Forbes.com, Inc.com, USA Today, and other national and local media.

He is the author of four books and over the past 20+ years has published more than 500 issues of “The Likeable Expert Gazette,” a twice-monthly email newsletter and podcast with 6,000 passionate subscribers in over 40 countries around the world.

And he is someone I have learned a lot from through our business networking group ProVisors.

Additional Resources

• Episode 29-How Newsletters Can Set You Apart From the Competition
• Episode 74-Turning Business Conversations into Business
• Episode 44-Getting the Most From Networking Meetings and Troikas
• Making Introductions that Generate Referrals

The pandemic was a mixed bag for me. As some of my listeners know, both of my parents died of COVID in April 2020. While that was very sad, it wasn’t tragic. My dad was 95, my mom was 94, neither suffered, and neither knew the other one was gone.

At the same time, the lockdown created some great new opportunities to expand my network both here in New England and throughout the country.

Zoom existed long before COVID. But going on-line in March of 2020 dramatically expanded my professional connections.

Through my ProVisors business network, I met hundreds of great professionals in every corner of the United States. I now coach clients in New England, New York, Texas, South Carolina, Chicago, California, and Seattle.

Beyond that, I’ve also met some other great people thanks to virtual platforms including today’s guest Rudy Rivera. Rudy is Chief International Counsel at Fidelity National Financial. He has extensive international litigation and business experience in Latin America, Europe, and Asia.

I reached out to Rudy after listening in on one of his live streaming presentations. The subject was leadership and Rudy and his guest did a great job of offering some very practical advice. I reached out to Rudy afterwards to thank him, and he responded right away. He suggested that we speak and soon after we did.

Since that time, I have listened in on a number of Rudy’s shows, Conversations With Rudy Rivera, and we have spoken about his career, his humble beginnings, and what it is like to manage counsel around the globe. I thought his story would be of great interest to my audience.

In this episode, Rudy tells his story and offers up some great career advice for younger lawyers.

IMHO, the two most important words in the English language are "Thank You".

As lawyers, we can be stingy in offering thanks to our colleagues and the people who support our work.  In addition, as we enter the holiday season and are thinking about showing more gratitude, now is a great time to start thinking about the changes we'd like to make in the coming year.

In this special addition of Counsel to Counsel, I share my thoughts for Thanksgiving in the run up to 2023.