Explorez tous les épisodes du podcast Co-Creating the Third Attractor

In this conversation with Ken Wilber, we explore whether radical wholeness could provide the foundation for a Third Attractor. Ken argues that the fragmentation and polarization we see in the world can only be addressed through a genuinely integral approach that includes the many dimensions of human life and development.We speak about how Integral Theory can move from a framework into lived practice, the importance of education, developmental stages, and the relationship between waking up and growing up. We also explore Being and Becoming, Eros as the evolutionary impulse, and what it might mean to become a more whole human being.A significant part of our conversation turns to AI. Ken shares his conviction that AI will play an increasingly important role in our future and argues for bringing an integral, holistic perspective into its development.Ultimately, his message for the Third Attractor is surprisingly simple: move towards wholeness. Learn to wake up, grow up, open up, clean up and show up, and begin applying these different dimensions of wholeness in our own lives and in the systems we create.Ken Wilber is an American philosopher who has spent his career building a comprehensive framework for understanding human development, consciousness, and the relationship between the interior and exterior dimensions of reality. Beginning with The Spectrum of Consciousness (1977), he set out to synthesize developmental psychology, contemplative traditions, systems theory, and evolutionary biology into one integrative model. His major works include Sex, Ecology, Spirituality (1995), A Brief History of Everything (1996), and Integral Spirituality (2006).He is best known for Integral Theory and its AQAL framework (all quadrants, all levels). It maps experience across four quadrants (individual and collective, interior and exterior) alongside stages of developmental complexity drawn from thinkers such as Jean Gebser, Clare Graves, and Spiral Dynamics. Subjective experience, behavior, culture, and social systems are held as equally real and mutually irreducible. Drawing on Vedanta, Buddhism, and Western philosophy, Wilber has spent decades showing how these traditions can be read as partial but valid perspectives within a larger developmental arc, rather than as competing truth claims.You can find much more information here: https://integrallife.com/Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born evolutionary practitioner, facilitator, and former technology executive whose life bridges the worlds of systems transformation, spiritual awakening, and human development. After a successful career in software engineering and leadership, including serving as CEO of SwissEnergy at the Swiss Federal Office of Energy, she left public life in 2016 to dedicate herself fully to the path of spiritual realization and conscious evolution. For seventeen years, she studied and worked closely with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen, becoming a senior practitioner and teacher of Evolutionary Enlightenment.

Daniela is the co-founder of Manifest Nirvana (https://www.manifest-nirvana.com) and lives in Tiruvannamalai, South India, where she leads retreats, online programs, and global dialogues exploring the intersection of awakening, culture, and collective transformation. She is the creator of the “Co-Creating the Third Attractor” Podcast (https://3da.manifest-nirvana.com ) , a integral inquiry into the future of human civilization, and the author of The Viratya Myth Begins (https://www.viratya.com). Through her writing, teaching, and conversations, Daniela invites people to discover a way of being that embraces both timeless presence and evolutionary becoming, holding the paradoxes of our age with depth, responsibility, and wonder.

In this conversation with Jonas Søvik, we explore what happens when the rational drive to “do the most good” meets a more integral, relational and nondual understanding of change.Jonas brings his experience in Effective Altruism into dialogue with questions of inner development, community, agency and emergence. We speak about the many “islands of coherence” already experimenting with new ways of living, and ask what it would take to connect them into a genuine web of relationships, shared learning and action.We also explore the tension between surrender and agency, knowing and not knowing, the possibilities and dangers of AI, and why our response to the future needs both clear thinking and a deeper capacity to listen. Can Effective Altruism evolve beyond its rationalist roots into something more integral, while keeping its commitment to evidence, humility and real-world impact?0:00 Defining the Third Attractor2:40 Islands of Coherence4:19 Surrender and Respond6:22 Holding Internal Paradoxes11:04 Environment and Affordances15:40 The Beauty of Not Knowing19:50 Relational Infrastructure31:47 The AI Predicament44:54 Reasons for HopeJonas Søvik is a coach, facilitator and community builder working to integrate effective altruism with the traditions it has tended to exclude. He co-organises Integral Altruism, an initiative bringing systems thinking, wisdom practice, metarationality and metamodernism into contact with the EA framework, on the premise that EA's inherited blind spots in utilitarianism, naive rationalism and techno-solutionism become liabilities when problems are complex and unfolding under radical uncertainty. He has served on the board of EA Denmark and worked at the EA Hotel in Blackpool. He has worked with John Vervaeke and with Lene Rachel Andersen on Bildung and the folk high school tradition, and his long-term aim is to found an academy combining metacrisis literacy, effective altruism and wisdom practice. He also runs Coaching for Humans, including a programme on regaining control of attention in a system engineered to capture it.
https://integralaltruism.comhttps://www.coachingforhuman.comhttps://appliedmetatheory.org
Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born evolutionary practitioner, facilitator, and former technology executive whose life bridges the worlds of systems transformation, spiritual awakening, and human development. After a successful career in software engineering and leadership, including serving as CEO of SwissEnergy at the Swiss Federal Office of Energy, she left public life in 2016 to dedicate herself fully to the path of spiritual realization and conscious evolution. For seventeen years, she studied and worked closely with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen, becoming a senior practitioner and teacher of Evolutionary Enlightenment.
Daniela is the co-founder of Manifest Nirvana (https://www.manifest-nirvana.com) and lives in Tiruvannamalai, South India, where she leads retreats, online programs, and global dialogues exploring the intersection of awakening, culture, and collective transformation. She is the creator of the “Co-Creating the Third Attractor” Podcast (https://3da.manifest-nirvana.com ) , a integral inquiry into the future of human civilization, and the author of The Viratya Myth Begins (https://www.viratya.com). Through her writing, teaching, and conversations, Daniela invites people to discover a way of being that embraces both timeless presence and evolutionary becoming, holding the paradoxes of our age with depth, responsibility, and wonder.

In this conversation with author and Accidental Gods host Manda Scott, we explore what it might actually take to create a future worth living in. Manda brings together shamanic practice, inner healing, regenerative thinking and the power of storytelling to ask how a genuinely different future could emerge.
We speak about moving beyond the stories of scarcity, separation and powerlessness that shape so much of our present world, and towards connection, agency and sufficiency. Manda argues that we cannot create a new system simply by thinking harder within the old one. We need to heal our inner divisions, reconnect with each other and with the wider web of life, and learn to listen for what wants to emerge.
We also explore regenerative economics, new forms of governance, the commons, the opportunities and dangers of AI, and why stories matter so deeply. If we cannot imagine a different future, how can we possibly create one?
Manda Scott is a novelist, podcaster and teacher working at the intersection of storytelling and systemic change. A former veterinary surgeon, she was shortlisted for the Orange Prize for her debut Hen's Teeth and won the McIlvanney Prize for A Treachery of Spies, though she is best known for the Boudica: Dreaming quartet. After a Masters in Regenerative Economics at Schumacher College she founded Accidental Gods, a podcast and membership programme giving sustained attention to the people building structural alternatives to a failing system. With her wife Faith Tilleray she co-created the Thrutopia Masterclass, based on the premise that dystopia rehearses collapse and utopia is not believable, so what we lack are stories of the transition between them. Her sixteenth novel, Any Human Power, is a political thriller built on exactly that principle. She has taught contemporary shamanic practice for forty years.
https://mandascott.co.uk
https://accidentalgods.life
https://thrutopia.life
Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born evolutionary practitioner, facilitator, and former technology executive whose life bridges the worlds of systems transformation, spiritual awakening, and human development. After a successful career in software engineering and leadership, including serving as CEO of SwissEnergy at the Swiss Federal Office of Energy, she left public life in 2016 to dedicate herself fully to the path of spiritual realization and conscious evolution. For seventeen years, she studied and worked closely with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen, becoming a senior practitioner and teacher of Evolutionary Enlightenment.
Daniela is the co-founder of Manifest Nirvana (https://www.manifest-nirvana.com) and lives in Tiruvannamalai, South India, where she leads retreats, online programs, and global dialogues exploring the intersection of awakening, culture, and collective transformation. She is the creator of the “Co-Creating the Third Attractor” Podcast (https://3da.manifest-nirvana.com ) , a integral inquiry into the future of human civilization, and the author of The Viratya Myth Begins (https://www.viratya.com). Through her writing, teaching, and conversations, Daniela invites people to discover a way of being that embraces both timeless presence and evolutionary becoming, holding the paradoxes of our age with depth, responsibility, and wonder.

In this conversation with philosopher Robert M. Ellis, we explore the Middle Way and its surprising overlap with the Third Attractor. Robert describes the Middle Way not as compromise or simply finding a position between two extremes, but as a practical way of avoiding absolutism, widening our perspective and remaining open to reframing our assumptions. We talk about judgment and optionality, the relationship between individual and collective change, ethics, archetypes, metaphysics, and the challenge of acting decisively without turning our beliefs into absolutes. We also explore where Robert and I disagree, particularly around metaphysics, while arriving at remarkably similar conclusions about how we might navigate an uncertain future. And towards the end, we turn to AI and Robert’s deep concerns about its impact on human thinking and our collective future.Robert M. Ellis is a British philosopher, founder of the Middle Way Society and originator of Middle Way Philosophy, a cross-disciplinary account of judgement under uncertainty drawing on Western philosophy, psychology, neuroscience and systems theory as well as Buddhist practice. He holds a Ph.D. in Philosophy from Lancaster, spent twenty years as an ordained Buddhist before leaving the tradition, and is the author of Absolutization, The Five Principles of Middle Way Philosophy, The Buddha's Middle Way and The Christian Middle Way. He runs Tirylan House Retreat Centre in Wales.https://www.robertmellis.net/Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born evolutionary practitioner, facilitator, and former technology executive whose life bridges the worlds of systems transformation, spiritual awakening, and human development. After a successful career in software engineering and leadership, including serving as CEO of SwissEnergy at the Swiss Federal Office of Energy, she left public life in 2016 to dedicate herself fully to the path of spiritual realization and conscious evolution. For seventeen years, she studied and worked closely with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen, becoming a senior practitioner and teacher of Evolutionary Enlightenment.Daniela is the co-founder of Manifest Nirvana (https://www.manifest-nirvana.com) and lives in Tiruvannamalai, South India, where she leads retreats, online programs, and global dialogues exploring the intersection of awakening, culture, and collective transformation. She is the creator of the “Co-Creating the Third Attractor” Podcast (https://3da.manifest-nirvana.com ) , a integral inquiry into the future of human civilization, and the author of The Viratya Myth Begins (https://www.viratya.com). Through her writing, teaching, and conversations, Daniela invites people to discover a way of being that embraces both timeless presence and evolutionary becoming, holding the paradoxes of our age with depth, responsibility, and wonder.

Discover the Third Attractor with Jenny Andersson and learn how we can align human activity with ecological boundaries.Jenny Andersson, founder of The Really Regenerative Centre, joins this conversation to discuss the practical shifts required for a sustainable future. We examine how shifting our focus toward regenerative leadership and bioregionalism allows communities to steward their own places effectively. By prioritizing ecological boundaries over traditional political lines, we can start building a future grounded in wholeness.This dialogue explores the Third Attractor as a vision already being seeded through local experiments. We look at how new economic models can move us beyond competition, emphasizing the inner development needed alongside outer structural changes. This is an invitation to consider how your own community can participate in this necessary collective evolution.Subscribe for weekly explorations into systems thinking, and share one aspect of regenerative living you are curious about below.
Jenny Andersson is the founder and director of The Really Regenerative Centre, which she launched in 2020 after thirty years in international development, brand strategy, communications and sustainability design. She designs learning journeys on regenerative leadership, economics and bioregionalism for organisations, municipalities and communities, working from the premise that human activity should be organised around ecological boundaries rather than political ones. She led a global inquiry for the Joseph Rowntree Foundation into what allows communities to steward the regeneration of their own places. She holds an MBA from London Business School and an MSc in Psychology, is a qualified Regenesis Regenerative Practitioner, and was a founding member of the design team for Kate Raworth's Doughnut Economics Action Lab. Her place is Midhurst, Sussex.
https://reallyregenerative.org/
Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born evolutionary practitioner, facilitator, and former technology executive whose life bridges the worlds of systems transformation, spiritual awakening, and human development. After a successful career in software engineering and leadership, including serving as CEO of SwissEnergy at the Swiss Federal Office of Energy, she left public life in 2016 to dedicate herself fully to the path of spiritual realization and conscious evolution. For seventeen years, she studied and worked closely with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen, becoming a senior practitioner and teacher of Evolutionary Enlightenment.
Daniela is the co-founder of Manifest Nirvana (https://www.manifest-nirvana.com) and lives in Tiruvannamalai, South India, where she leads retreats, online programs, and global dialogues exploring the intersection of awakening, culture, and collective transformation. She is the creator of the “Co-Creating the Third Attractor” Podcast (https://3da.manifest-nirvana.com ) , a integral inquiry into the future of human civilization, and the author of The Viratya Myth Begins (https://www.viratya.com). Through her writing, teaching, and conversations, Daniela invites people to discover a way of being that embraces both timeless presence and evolutionary becoming, holding the paradoxes of our age with depth, responsibility, and wonder.

What does it take to build a truly pro-social world?In this conversation, evolutionary biologist David Sloan Wilson brings Darwinian evolution into dialogue with the vision of the Third Attractor. We explore why cooperation is one of evolution’s greatest achievements, why good intentions alone are not enough, and how groups can create the conditions that allow people to work together for the common good.Drawing on multilevel selection and Elinor Ostrom’s groundbreaking work on the commons, David explains the core principles that enable groups to become cooperative, resilient and self-governing. We also explore the relationship between inner transformation and social structures, the limits of individualism, and how cooperation might expand from small groups to communities, nations and ultimately the whole planet.At the heart of the conversation is a hopeful possibility: perhaps a more pro-social future does not need to remain a utopian ideal. We already know a great deal about the conditions that make cooperation possible. The challenge is to begin putting them into practice.0:00 Co-creating a Pro-Social World5:29 Bridging Inner States and Outer Actions9:06 Tracing Intellectual and Spiritual Lineages15:44 The Evolutionary Biologist's Perspective22:24 Respecting Indigenous Wisdom26:34 Understanding the WEIRD Cultural Bias37:56 The Evolutionary Dilemma of Altruism48:38 Elinor Ostrom and the Commons1:12:30 A Blueprint for Global Flourishingabout David Sloan WilsonDavid Sloan Wilson is an evolutionary biologist and Distinguished Professor Emeritus of Biological Sciences and Anthropology at Binghamton University, where he taught from 1988 until his retirement in 2019. He is the leading proponent of multilevel selection theory, developed with philosopher Elliott Sober in their book "Unto Others," which argues that natural selection operates on a nested hierarchy of units: genes within individuals, individuals within groups, groups within populations. Cooperation, on this account, is a real evolutionary outcome rather than disguised self-interest, but it survives only where the conditions at the higher level hold. He founded the Evolutionary Studies program at Binghamton to unify disciplines under evolutionary theory, and co-founded the Evolution Institute and Prosocial World, which applies multilevel selection alongside Elinor Ostrom's design principles to help real groups function as cooperative units. His books include "Evolution for Everyone" and "Atlas Hugged."https://davidsloanwilson.worldhttps://www.prosocial.worldabout Daniela BomatterDaniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born evolutionary practitioner, facilitator, and former technology executive whose life bridges the worlds of systems transformation, spiritual awakening, and human development. After a successful career in software engineering and leadership, including serving as CEO of SwissEnergy at the Swiss Federal Office of Energy, she left public life in 2016 to dedicate herself fully to the path of spiritual realization and conscious evolution. For seventeen years, she studied and worked closely with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen, becoming a senior practitioner and teacher of Evolutionary Enlightenment.Daniela is the co-founder of Manifest Nirvana (https://www.manifest-nirvana.com) and lives in Tiruvannamalai, South India, where she leads retreats, online programs, and global dialogues exploring the intersection of awakening, culture, and collective transformation. She is the creator of the “Co-Creating the Third Attractor” Podcast (https://3da.manifest-nirvana.com ) , a integral inquiry into the future of human civilization, and the author of The Viratya Myth Begins (https://www.viratya.com). Through her writing, teaching, and conversations, Daniela invites people to discover a way of being that embraces both timeless presence and evolutionary becoming, holding the paradoxes of our age with depth, responsibility, and wonder.

What if consciousness is not produced by the universe, but is the ground from which the universe emerges?In this conversation, physicist and author James B. Glattfelder explores ideas from The Sapient Cosmos: the “will to complexity,” consciousness as fundamental, and evolution as a movement toward greater awareness. We talk about idealism, psychedelics and non-ordinary states, quantum physics, AI and consciousness, and what it could mean to live in a participatory universe.At the heart of our conversation is a hopeful possibility: that the future is not simply something that happens to us. By recognizing our interconnectedness, taking responsibility, and learning to listen more deeply, we may become conscious participants in an evolutionary process that is still unfolding.James B. Glattfelder is a theoretical physicist turned complexity scientist, with an M.Sc. in theoretical physics and a Ph.D. in complex systems, both from ETH Zurich. In 2011 he co-authored "The Network of Global Corporate Control," which mapped ownership across some 43,000 transnational corporations and identified a small cluster of firms, mostly banks, holding disproportionate influence over the global economy. He spent sixteen years in finance and was a postdoctoral researcher at the University of Zurich. His books include "Decoding Complexity," "Information, Consciousness, Reality," and "The Sapient Cosmos," which argue that the ontology of reality is information-theoretic and participatory, and that physicalism was a metaphysical choice rather than a scientific finding. He lives in Zurich.https://jth.ch/jbgDaniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born evolutionary practitioner, facilitator, and former technology executive whose life bridges the worlds of systems transformation, spiritual awakening, and human development. After a successful career in software engineering and leadership, including serving as CEO of SwissEnergy at the Swiss Federal Office of Energy, she left public life in 2016 to dedicate herself fully to the path of spiritual realization and conscious evolution. For seventeen years, she studied and worked closely with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen, becoming a senior practitioner and teacher of Evolutionary Enlightenment.Daniela is the co-founder of Manifest Nirvana (https://www.manifest-nirvana.com) and lives in Tiruvannamalai, South India, where she leads retreats, online programs, and global dialogues exploring the intersection of awakening, culture, and collective transformation. She is the creator of the “Co-Creating the Third Attractor” Podcast (https://3da.manifest-nirvana.com ) , a integral inquiry into the future of human civilization, and the author of The Viratya Myth Begins (https://www.viratya.com). Through her writing, teaching, and conversations, Daniela invites people to discover a way of being that embraces both timeless presence and evolutionary becoming, holding the paradoxes of our age with depth, responsibility, and wonder.

How do we create a future that is neither collapse nor techno-utopia? In this rich and wide-ranging conversation, Daniela Bomatter speaks with Ivo Mensch about what it really means to co-create the Third Attractor.Rather than treating the Third Attractor as a fixed destination, Ivo sees it as a way of navigating: a living orientation that helps us respond wisely to each moment while remaining open to an unknown future. Together they explore why holding paradoxes, rather than resolving them, may be one of the defining capacities of an emerging consciousness.

The conversation moves through some of today’s most important questions: the limits of individual development, the need for coherent rather than merely cohesive communities, and why spirituality must once again become deeply engaged with culture rather than remaining an individual pursuit. They discuss the role of grand narratives, world-making, and the challenge of building shared visions without turning them into rigid ideologies. NoteGPT_Transcript_ThirdAttractorIvo.txtA central theme is Ivo’s work on unlearning. Drawing on neuroscience, systems thinking, and contemplative practice, he argues that our deepest assumptions about reality, identity, time, and progress unconsciously shape how we perceive the world. Genuine transformation begins not by adding new ideas, but by loosening our attachment to old mental models so that new possibilities can emerge.

This is a conversation for anyone interested in systems change, metamodernism, integral thinking, collective intelligence, spirituality, and the practical work of creating a more coherent future together.

Ivo Mensch works where contemplative practice meets cultural change. He is a founding member of the Emerge Institute in Stockholm, where he directs Research and Consilience, and he previously built the Praxis strand at Perspectiva, the London-based charity describing its work as a hundred-year project on the relationship between systems, souls and society.His research examines innovation in spiritual practice, particularly interbeing, working toward what he calls a spiritually informed sociology built around the body, time, imagination and logos as the fundamental dimensions of change.The underlying question is not what practice does for the individual but what it makes a culture capable of perceiving and doing.He is an ordained monk in the Soto Zen lineage and has practiced in the Diamond Approach for over a decade. As an author and coach, he designs practices and courses for navigating long arcs of cultural transition and shifts in consciousness. He is a certified Integral Development Coach, trained in Aletheia group unfolding, and writes at his Substack, Increasing Life, on culture, technology, consciousness and collective action.A large part of his focus is unlearning: what people working to change the world need to release before anything new can take hold, and what forms of education actually support that.Emerge Institute: https://emergelakefront.orgPerspectiva: https://systems-souls-society.comHis Substack, Increasing Life:About Daniela BomatterDaniela Bomatter is the host of Co-Creating the Third Attractor, a podcast exploring the consciousness, culture, and leadership needed for humanity’s next stage of evolution.A former CEO of SwissEnergy in Switzerland, Daniela is now Co-Founder of Manifest Nirvana and founder of the Manifest Nirvana Ashram in Tiruvannamalai, India. Inspired by the teaching of Andrew Cohen and Evolutionary Enlightenment, she facilitates dialogues, retreats, and communities dedicated to conscious evolution, regenerative culture, and collective awakening.Find all conversations:https://3da.manifest-nirvana.comManifest Nirvana:https://manifest-nirvana.com

In this conversation, Daniela Bomatter speaks with Remzi Bajrami, founder of Creditism, about one of the most ambitious questions of our time: Can we redesign money to serve life instead of power?Remzi explains why he believes today’s financial system concentrates wealth, fuels inequality, and disconnects humanity from the commons. He introduces Creditism, a new economic model where money is created, distributed, and retired differently, making it possible to guarantee basic security while rewarding meaningful contribution rather than endless accumulation. Together they explore universal basic income, reclaiming the commons, decentralizing power, and the inner shift in consciousness that such a transformation would require.If you’re interested in the future of economics, systems change, and what a truly regenerative civilization might look like, this conversation offers a bold and thought-provoking vision.Remzi Bajrami is co-founder of the Common Planet Foundation and the originator of Creditism, an economic model built on credit that flows to people rather than debt that must be repaid. Born in 1973 in what is now North Macedonia, he spent years inside conventional business and real estate before turning to the question of what would replace the money system rather than reform it. He is the author of Common Planet: A New Game of Life (2022), which sets out a currency that is issued at the point of use and cleared afterwards, removing the need for banks, interest, and taxation. In his framing, credit flows to people because existence itself has value, circulates through life, and then clears. Through Common Planet he is developing the AYU Network alongside Adelina Bajrami and Adam Stallard, testing whether the model can be built in practice rather than argued in theory. His work has been discussed in GameB circles, including on the Jim Rutt Show. https://remzibajrami.comhttp://common-planet.org/Substack: https://commonplanet.substack.comAbout Daniela BomatterDaniela Bomatter is the host of Co-Creating the Third Attractor, a podcast exploring the consciousness, culture, and leadership needed for humanity’s next stage of evolution.A former CEO of SwissEnergy in Switzerland, Daniela is now Co-Founder of Manifest Nirvana and founder of the Manifest Nirvana Ashram in Tiruvannamalai, India. Inspired by the teaching of Andrew Cohen and Evolutionary Enlightenment, she facilitates dialogues, retreats, and communities dedicated to conscious evolution, regenerative culture, and collective awakening.Find all conversations:https://3da.manifest-nirvana.comManifest Nirvana:https://manifest-nirvana.com

What if the world’s biggest problems aren’t caused by bad leaders, but by a system that forces every nation to compete instead of cooperate?In this conversation, John Bunzl, founder of Simpol (Simultaneous Policy), joins Daniela Bomatter to explore why climate change, AI governance, economic inequality, and many other global crises remain unsolved despite decades of effort. Together they examine the hidden dynamics of destructive global competition and discuss a practical framework for enabling nations to act together without sacrificing their own interests.The conversation also explores worldcentric consciousness, Integral Theory, Spiral Dynamics, bottom-up citizen action, top-down political change, and why humanity may need a new form of global cooperation if it is to avoid polarization, authoritarianism, or collapse.0:00 The Search for a Third Attractor1:40 The Simultaneous Policy Framework4:09 Multi-Issue Policy Packages6:12 The Power of Citizen Pledges11:03 Safeguarding National Sovereignty16:22 AI-Assisted Global Negotiations20:27 The Challenge of Consciousness43:39 A Pilot for AI RegulationIf you’re interested in systems thinking, global governance, civilizational transformation, and the future of humanity, this conversation offers a compelling vision of what a genuine Third Attractor could look like.John Bunzl is a British businessman and political activist born in London in 1957. In 2000 he founded the International Simultaneous Policy Organisation and launched the Simultaneous Policy, known as Simpol, a campaign that asks citizens across many countries to pledge their votes to any candidate who commits to implementing a set of global policies simultaneously with other nations, on issues such as climate change, financial regulation, and inequality. His argument is that global competition between nations traps politicians into inaction, and that coordinated, simultaneous commitments can break that deadlock. Simpol now has supporters in over a hundred countries and has been signed by members of parliament across the political spectrum. Bunzl is the author of several books, including The Simultaneous Policy: An Insider's Guide to Saving Humanity and the Planet and, with Nick Duffell, The SIMPOL Solution. Alongside his activism he works as a company director in the raw materials and speciality papers business.Links: the Simpol campaign is at https://simpol.org, his team profile is at https://simpol.org/who-we-are/who-we-are, and his book The SIMPOL Solution is available on Amazon at https://www.amazon.com/SIMPOL-Solution-Solving-Biggest-Problems/dp/1633883930.About Daniela BomatterDaniela Bomatter is the host of Co-Creating the Third Attractor, a podcast exploring the consciousness, culture, and leadership needed for humanity’s next stage of evolution.A former CEO of SwissEnergy in Switzerland, Daniela is Co-Founder of Manifest Nirvana and founder of the Manifest Nirvana Ashram in Tiruvannamalai, India. Inspired by the teaching of Andrew Cohen and Evolutionary Enlightenment, she facilitates dialogues, retreats, and communities dedicated to conscious evolution, regenerative culture, and collective awakening.Find all conversations:https://3da.manifest-nirvana.comManifest Nirvana:https://manifest-nirvana.com

In this episode of Co-Creating the Third Attractor, Daniela Bomatter speaks with gerontologist and consciousness researcher Bettina Wichers about conscious aging, adult development, Integral Theory, transpersonal consciousness, and the role of elders in shaping the future of humanity.Together they explore how shadow work, trauma integration, the dissolution of the ego, and the emergence of transpersonal identity may prepare us for a more regenerative civilization. Rather than holding on to old identities, Bettina suggests that aging offers a unique opportunity to embody wisdom, deepen our relationship with life, and consciously participate in the evolution of culture.The conversation also explores a fascinating and controversial question: Could some forms of dementia reflect an unconscious dissolution of the personal self? While presented as an exploratory hypothesis, Bettina suggests that greater awareness and inner work may help transform this process into one of conscious development rather than unconscious decline.Topics include:• The Third Attractor• Conscious Aging• Adult Development• Integral Theory• Transpersonal Psychology• Shadow Work• Trauma Integration• Evolutionary Spirituality• The Role of Elders• Consciousness and Dementia• Collective Evolution• Regenerative CivilizationIf the Third Attractor is already emerging, perhaps one of its greatest untapped resources is the wisdom of conscious elders. What role do you think elders can play in humanity’s future? Let us know in the comments. If you enjoy conversations exploring consciousness, culture, and the future of civilization, please like, subscribe, and share this episode.

⸻About Bettina WichersBettina Wichers is a German gerontologist, lecturer, and consciousness researcher specializing in Integral Theory, conscious aging, and holistic approaches to dementia. Her work explores the intersection of aging, psychology, neuroscience, spirituality, and transpersonal development, proposing new ways of understanding the evolution of consciousness throughout the human lifespan.Website:https://www.bettinawichers.de/english-1/⸻

About Daniela BomatterDaniela Bomatter is the host of Co-Creating the Third Attractor, a podcast exploring the consciousness, culture, and leadership needed for humanity’s next stage of evolution.A former CEO of SwissEnergy in Switzerland, Daniela is now Co-Founder of Manifest Nirvana and founder of the Manifest Nirvana Ashram in Tiruvannamalai, India. Inspired by the teaching of Andrew Cohen and Evolutionary Enlightenment, she facilitates dialogues, retreats, and communities dedicated to conscious evolution, regenerative culture, and collective awakening.

Find all conversations:https://3da.manifest-nirvana.com

Manifest Nirvana:https://manifest-nirvana.com

This conversation moves through Jean Gebser's account of integral consciousness, the idea that we are not advancing toward a future so much as being worked on by a time that is already present and already shaping us. Jeremy calls this integral futuring: bringing an already unfolding future into conscious participation, rather than waiting for it to erupt as crisis.From there the discussion turns to what Jeremy calls the enantiodromia of modernity, the tendency of anything pushed to its extreme to flip into its opposite. Hyperproductivity produces a hunger for the analog and the slow. Mechanized cognition forces the question of what makes us human. Daniela and Jeremy test this against the hard edge of AI's near-term social cost, job loss, dependency, the erosion of discernment, not as speculation but as the present terrain the third attractor has to survive.They close on the other attractors circling this one: Latour's out-of-this-world trajectory of escape and acceleration, and the traditional pull back to land and ethnostate. Both offer something real. Neither offers a way through.A conversation on time, consciousness, and what it actually means to participate in a future rather than wait for it.Jeremy D. Johnson is a philosopher, author, and publisher working at the intersection of consciousness studies, ecology, and cultural transformation. He wrote Seeing Through the World: Jean Gebser and Integral Consciousness, the definitive introduction to the philosopher Jean Gebser's theory of the structures of consciousness. He is the publisher and editor of Integral Imprint, and manages the Integral Leadership Review. He hosts the Mutations podcast, where he explores emergent worldviews and planetary futures with philosophers, artists, and scholars. Jeremy serves as president of the International Jean Gebser Society and is a senior research associate at Perspectiva. He is completing his doctorate in Philosophy of Religion at the California Institute of Integral Studies. His work has appeared in Reality Sandwich, Evolve and Ascend, and Conscious Lifestyle Magazine, and he is currently working on his second book, Fragments of an Integral Future.Substack: https://substack.com/@jeremydjohnsonDaniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com), offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.📲 Let’s Connect & Build a Strong Speaking Community Together: Website : https://3da.manifest-nirvana.com/ Instagram : https://www.instagram.com/evolutionarynun/

In this conversation, Daniela Bomatter speaks with Dave Snowden, creator of the Cynefin framework, about why the future cannot be designed from the top down. Instead of searching for grand solutions, Snowden argues that real transformation emerges from thousands of small, local experiments that reveal what is already possible.The discussion explores complexity science, distributed sense-making, community resilience, education, AI, democracy, climate change, and the limits of developmental models. Snowden explains why societies need to focus less on defining the future they want and more on understanding the “substrate” of people’s lived experience, creating conditions where better futures can emerge naturally.Rather than asking “What should the world become?”, this conversation asks a deeper question:How do we create the processes that allow the future to discover itself?

Dave Snowden is a Welsh management consultant and researcher working at the intersection of complexity science, anthropology, and organizational decision-making. He is best known for creating the Cynefin framework, a model developed in 1999 during his time at IBM that helps leaders distinguish between simple, complicated, complex, and chaotic problems and respond appropriately to each. He also designed SenseMaker, the first distributed ethnography tool built for large-scale narrative capture and pattern recognition. Dave holds a philosophy degree from the University of Lancaster and an MBA from Middlesex Polytechnic. He now divides his time between two roles, as founder and Chief Scientific Officer of The Cynefin Company and founder and Director of the Cynefin Centre, working internationally with government and industry on strategy and complex decision-making.https://cynefin.iohttps://thecynefin.co/Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com), offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

Jon Freeman describes a vision of individual freedom that does not collapse into chaos, because it lives inside a relationship with what he calls the information field. He defines coherence through the image of scattered light versus a laser: a state where inner sensing, not just thought or emotion, guides each choice. When asked whether that could shade into dogmatism, Jon draws on spiral dynamics: real coherence cannot be imposed from outside and belongs to second tier, where paradox is accepted rather than resolved into certainty.

The two compare group practices, Jon's field circles and Daniela's intersubjective non-duality work, and land on a shared discovery: the deepest coherence appears when a group stops sharing personal experience and instead speaks from the field itself.

On collapse, Jon is direct. He reads current signals, from the Strait of Hormuz to economic fragility, as pointing to a near-term shock that cannot be fully avoided. His answer is not prevention but preparation: building small islands of coherence now so any collapse lands softer. The conversation closes on AI, where Jon argues it lacks access to the field and to the present moment, and raises the open question of whether its builders can avoid locking humanity deeper into a materialist paradigm.

Jon Freeman spent four decades in corporate IT and organizational development, working across consumer goods, engineering, air transport, and telecoms, and rising to European Director for a multinational firm. Two decades ago he trained intensively with Dr. Don Beck in Spiral Dynamics, a model of human development that spans individual, organizational, and societal scales, and he now teaches and applies it in coaching and organizational facilitation. He also trained in Cindy Wigglesworth's SQ21 spiritual intelligence system, serving as her first European trainer, and was a founding director of the UK chapter of Conscious Capitalism. He continues organizational work through the consultancy Future Considerations.

Jon writes and speaks on what he calls relational being, exploring the idea that the universe operates through a field of information linking human systems, consciousness, and the natural world. He is the author of several books, including The Science of Possibility, Reinventing Capitalism, and his most recent work, What Makes You YOU.

relationalbeing.substack.com
www.jonfreeman.co.uk
https://www.amazon.co.uk/What-Makes-You-YOU-Discover/dp/0993319289

Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.

As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.

She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com),  offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.

In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

In this wide-ranging conversation, Peter Merry explores what it means to navigate our time of profound transition through an integral, evolutionary lens. Together we examine why chaos is not simply breakdown, but the fertile space where the future begins to emerge. Rather than trying to predict or control what comes next, Peter invites us into the practice of "not knowing"—a deeper form of presence that allows us to participate consciously in emergence.We explore consciousness, time, leadership, Spiral Dynamics, AI, and the subtle fields of awareness that shape human evolution. Peter shares why future-ready leadership is less about having answers and more about sensing the whole, translating complexity for different perspectives, and creating the conditions for self-organization. We also discuss why AI, despite its extraordinary capabilities, cannot access the living field of consciousness in the way human beings can, and why reconnecting with our deepest human capacities may be the key to co-creating the Third Attractor.Ultimately, this conversation is an invitation to let go of certainty, trust the creative process of evolution, and contribute with integrity to the future that is already trying to emerge through us.

Peter Merry is a social innovator, author, educator, and one of the leading voices in evolutionary leadership and systems transformation. As Chief Innovation Officer of Ubiquity University and founder of the Wyrd initiative, he explores the intersection of consciousness, leadership, subtle interconnectedness, and societal change. Drawing on Integral Theory, human ecology, and emerging understandings of energy and information fields, Peter's work invites us to lead "from the field" and participate consciously in the evolution of humanity. He is the author of Evolutionary Leadership, Why Work?, and Leading from the Field.https://petermerry.org/https://gowyrd.orgDaniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (https://manifest-nirvana.com), offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

What if the future of humanity begins in the way we educate our children? In this inspiring conversation, educator and visionary Madhan Mohan shares how Arunachala Village School in rural South India has spent more than two decades reimagining education from the ground up. Built on freedom, unconditional love, trust and responsibility, the school empowers children to think for themselves, care for one another, and become active contributors to their communities. Together, we explore why genuine education is not about memorizing facts, but about awakening wisdom, compassion and the confidence to shape a better future—one child, one classroom and one community at a time. Madhan Mohan is a dreamer, a visionary, and a passionate advocate for children’s education. Since 2001, he has dedicated himself to revolutionising learning at Arunachala Village School, pioneering innovative approaches to primary education in rural India. Through his unwavering commitment, he has overcome immense challenges, reshaping the educational landscape for generations of students.  Driven by a profound vision, Madhan Mohan has always believed in creating a school where joy and wisdom go hand in hand. Inspired by his childhood aspirations, he made a lifelong commitment to providing underprivileged children with the finest education possible—one that nurtures academic excellence and holistic growth.For over two decades, under his leadership, AVS has developed groundbreaking teaching methodologies tailored for rural students, many of whom come from undereducated or economically disadvantaged backgrounds. His relentless efforts have transformed the school campus into a vibrant, self-learning ecosystem – a testament to his perseverance and innovative spirit.Recognizing systemic challenges in traditional education, Madhan Mohan introduced revolutionary pedagogical techniques. Among his most impactful philosophies is the belief that “teachers should act as parents at school, while parents serve as teachers at home.” This shared responsibility model has strengthened collaboration between families and educators, fostering a deeper understanding of child development. His progressive vision has redefined primary education, emphasizing creativity, critical thinking, and emotional well-being.Website: https://arunachalaschool.org/If you'd like to support his work, please reach out to Madhan by email: leomadhan@icloud.comDaniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com), offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

Dennis Wittrock frames the third attractor through Daniel Schmachtenberger's landscape metaphor: a narrow ridge between collapse and authoritarian control. He argues that belief in a third path is itself a precondition for reaching it, since attitude and daily behavior compound over time.

The conversation covers the multipolar trap as the generator function behind the metacrisis, and the limits of global institutions like the UN in regulating a globalized economy. It then turns to organizational design, where Wittrock draws on Holacracy and the "Work with Source" model to show how decentralized decision-making outperforms traditional hierarchies, and closes with the open question of what this means for political governance.

Dennis Wittrock is a philosopher, organizational innovator, and one of Europe’s leading voices at the intersection of integral theory, self-management, and civilizational transformation. A certified Holacracy® Master Coach, he has spent years helping organizations pioneer purpose-driven forms of governance while exploring how consciousness and culture shape the evolution of society. Dennis is the founder and co-director of the Integral European Conference, former CEO of the German Integral Association and the German Integral Academy, and the author of Holacracy verstehen. His work is dedicated to creating spaces where integral consciousness can emerge and where new paradigms for organizations, politics, and civilization can take root.website: https://denniswittrock.com/Podcast: Islands of Resonance (https://letscast.fm/sites/islands-of-resonance-f39f2119)Medium - Articles:Values Integration via the Integrative Decision-Making process: https://medium.com/about-holacracy/values-integration-via-the-integrative-decision-making-process-5b2e2a754149Emergent Solutions for a World in Crisis: https://medium.com/@denniswittrock/emergent-solutions-for-a-world-in-crisis-bf8ed5f2d65eDaniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com), offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

In this conversation, painter and teacher Jordan Wolfson explores the essential role of art in co-creating the Third Attractor. Drawing on Iain McGilchrist’s work, he describes our current crises as expressions of an overly dominant left hemisphere, shaped by control, utility, abstraction and power. A more humane future would require the right hemisphere to lead again, reconnecting us with wholeness, empathy, beauty, awe and the living texture of experience.Jordan speaks about aesthetic engagement as far more than artistic expression. Whether through painting, music, dance or other creative practices, working with form can train us to remain present, tolerate uncertainty and participate in emergence without trying to control it. The conversation moves through the relationship between being and becoming, agency and receptivity, individual creativity and interbeing, asking whether art may be one of humanity’s most powerful and still underused resources for imagining and embodying a different future.Jordan Wolfson is an American painter whose work investigates consciousness through the medium of painting itself. Rather than treating painting as representation, he approaches it as a practice of perception—an exploration of how awareness, light, and form arise in experience. Educated at Yale and shaped by decades of artistic and contemplative inquiry, Wolfson has exhibited internationally and received numerous awards for his work. His paintings invite viewers into a slower, more attentive way of seeing, where art becomes less an object to interpret than a space for discovering the nature of consciousness itself.Book-Link: https://www.lulu.com/shop/jordan-wolfson/power-and-presence/paperback/product-q6wm9wr.html?q=jordan+wolfson&page=1&pageSize=4Website: https://jordanwolfson.com/Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com), offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

What if the greatest crisis of our time is not climate change itself, but the way we value the world? In this conversation, filmmaker and ecological restoration pioneer John D. Liu invites us to rethink the very foundations of our civilization. Drawing on decades of documenting some of the world’s largest ecosystem restoration projects, including China’s remarkable transformation of the Loess Plateau, he argues that healthy, functioning ecosystems are far more valuable than any material wealth we can accumulate. Rather than offering another political or technological solution, John points toward a profound shift in consciousness: from extraction to regeneration, from ownership to participation, and from seeing ourselves as separate individuals to recognizing that we are expressions of one living planetary system. We explore ecological civilization, the limits of economic thinking, why people cannot simply be “taught” to change, and what it might take for humanity to rediscover its rightful place within the living Earth.

John D. Liu is an ecosystem restoration pioneer, filmmaker, and environmental educator whose work has inspired ecological regeneration projects around the world. Through documenting large-scale landscape restoration and collaborating with scientists, governments, and local communities, he has shown that degraded ecosystems can recover when humans learn to work with nature rather than against it.His work points beyond sustainability toward regeneration, inviting us to see humanity not as separate from the living Earth, but as a conscious participant in the planet’s ongoing evolution. His perspective offers a powerful vision of how ecological restoration and inner transformation can become part of the same civilizational shift.

Friends of the Ecosystem Restoration Communities Movementhttps://www.ecosystemrestorationfriends.com/The film GreenGoldhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3nR3G9jbocThe Ecosystem Restoration Communities websitehttps://ecosystemrestorationcommunities.org/

Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com), offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

In this conversation, I speak with political scientist and integral thinker Elke Fein about what it would actually take to bring a new paradigm into politics. Rather than focusing on ideology, Elke explores how developmental psychology, Deep Democracy, shadow work, and genuine dialogue can help us create political cultures that are capable of holding complexity instead of collapsing into polarization. We discuss why conflict, when approached consciously, can become a gateway to deeper community rather than division, and why the future of politics depends as much on our inner capacities as on new institutions.  

One of the themes that stayed with me throughout our conversation is the importance of humility. Elke argues that an integral approach requires us to embrace multiple perspectives, take the latest science seriously, and at the same time remain deeply aware of how much we do not know. Together we explore how developmental stages, spirituality, and new forms of collective sense-making might help humanity move beyond today’s polarization toward a genuinely attractive future.

Dr. Elke Fein is a German political and social scientist, founding member and managing director of the Institut für integrale Studien (IFIS) in Freiburg, where she also serves as director of the Center for Integral Politics. She has been connected with IFIS since its founding in 2008 and has led projects such as Leadership for Transition (LiFT), which ran in several phases from 2013 to 2022.Her work focuses on integral politics, adult development, political culture, Russia studies, social transformation, and the role of deeper cultural patterns in democracy and systemic change. She studied political and social sciences at FU Berlin and Sciences Po Paris, as well as Eastern European studies and Eastern European history at FU Berlin and the University of Freiburg. In 2005, she completed a PhD on Russia’s political transformation and the 1992 CPSU trial before the Russian Constitutional Court.At IFIS, Fein works with integral process design, dialogue facilitation, Deep Democracy, round tables, and collaboratory formats. She is also the main author of the 2023 book “Integrale Politik - Grundlagen, Prinzipien und Inspirationsquellen”. In public profiles and interviews, she presents integral politics as a way to address polarization, transformation, and the “polycrisis” through more developmental and holistic approaches to political cultureDaniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com), offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

Amy Churchouse brings a refreshing blend of practical wisdom and deep curiosity to this conversation. Rather than searching for grand solutions, she invites us to slow down, observe, listen, and rediscover the simple human capacities that make genuine collaboration possible. Her "Pause, Observe, Feel, Listen" approach offers a grounded way of navigating complexity without becoming overwhelmed by it.

Together we explore why the future will not be created through better ideas alone, but through our ability to pay deeper attention to ourselves, to each other, and to the wider systems we are part of. Amy reminds us that every person carries a unique life journey, and that true co-creation begins with curiosity, humility, and the willingness to see beyond our assumptions. It is a hopeful conversation about how small shifts in awareness can open entirely new possibilities for humanity's future.

Amy is an experienced innovator with a passion for designing collaborative strategies for human thriving. With a natural ability to connect and a strong drive to help people facilitate positive experiences in their lives, she works with individuals, organisations and communities, empowering them to design solutions, overcome challenges and make connections that enable positive change. Amy’s passion for human connection and commitment to designing new approaches to challenges that are more accessible, efficient, and effective drove her in 2016 to start a Facebook group for her neighbours to connect and help each other solve their problems. The group was so impactful for people in her community that it started the Good Karma Effect movement of human connection which saw more than 60 Good Karma Networks started across 4 states of Australia, connecting over 150,000 people with their neighbours to help each other every day. The design of the groups empowered people to make a difference with whatever they had and the impacts were both significant far reaching. Good Karma Networks not only help to solve a huge range of individual problems but they also build relationships, change the way people think about each other and about solving problems, inspire compassion and action, save people time and money and reduce resource consumption, expenditure and wastage. Despite its multifactorial positive impact, systemic, cultural and technological challenges resulted in closure of the Good Karma Effect organisation in 2024, however Amy has continued on her quest to make things better, exploring the complexity and factors contributing to individual, collective and environmental challenges, which has brought her face to face with the metacrisis, and here with me today. Her work and writing invite people to pause and explore to see what else might be possible with greater awareness and a different perspective.https://goodkarmaeffect.com/Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

In this conversation, Ross Hostetter brings a deeply contemplative and mystical perspective to the Third Attractor. Drawing on Christian mysticism, nondual spirituality, and decades of inner practice, he suggests that the Third Attractor is ultimately not an idea or a future system, but a living reality that we can embody. Together we explore the meaning of the famous words "I am the way," the nature of the Guru Principle, the role of transmission, and why genuine transformation begins when we become vessels for something greater than our separate selves.Our dialogue also turns toward the practical implications of this realization. Rather than waiting for large-scale solutions, we reflect on how every authentic interaction can subtly change the trajectory of another human being. The future, Ross suggests, may emerge through countless moments of presence, practice, and service that gradually create a new field of coherence. It is a conversation about awakening, responsibility, and the possibility that the Third Attractor is already expressing itself through those who consciously participate in it.Ross Hostetter is an attorney, mediator, leadership coach, and integral thinker with more than three decades of experience helping individuals and organizations navigate complexity, conflict, and transformation. After conducting more than 4,000 mediations and training leaders across the legal profession, his work has increasingly focused on the intersection of personal development, cultural evolution, regenerative systems, and conscious leadership. He is a longtime contributor to the Integral community and brings a rare combination of practical wisdom, philosophical depth, and real-world experience.In this conversation, Ross explores what it means to grow beyond polarized thinking and how profound transformation often emerges through life’s most challenging dilemmas. Together we examine the deeper capacities needed to co-create a regenerative future, the role of consciousness in navigating complexity, and why the evolution of our inner world is inseparable from the evolution of our institutions and culture.https://www.rosshostetter.com/https://integrallife.com/author/ross-hostetter/Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com), offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

Violeta Bulc spent years inside the machinery of governance, as Slovenia's EU Commissioner for transport and mobility, before turning to a sharper question: whether humanity can learn from the one system that has held balance over long stretches of time, which is nature itself. In this conversation she shares what the Eco-Civilization movement has learned across 52 countries and seven years of dialogue, where leadership flattens into networks, where narratives are allowed to emerge rather than be imposed, and where the measure of an organization shifts from profit toward systemic vitality and life-positive impact. She makes a concrete case for participatory budgeting, residents' parliaments selected by lottery, and participatory modeling as the first lever worth pulling, and she holds the tension between emergence and agency not as a problem to solve but as a balance both sides must respect.

Violeta Bulc is a Slovenian entrepreneur, systems innovator, and former European Commissioner for Transport whose work spans politics, business, sustainability, and consciousness. From 2014 to 2019 she served on the European Commission, where she championed sustainable mobility, digital transformation, and long-term systemic approaches to Europe’s future.Before entering politics, Violeta built a successful career in telecommunications and entrepreneurship, leading innovation initiatives and founding companies focused on sustainable development and human-centered leadership. Throughout her career she has been guided by the conviction that lasting societal change requires both inner transformation and systemic innovation.Today she is the founder and curator of  Ecocivilisation Lab⁠, an international platform exploring regenerative futures and the emergence of what she calls an “ecocivilisation” – a society that lives in harmony with nature while fostering human creativity and flourishing. Her work brings together systems thinking, spirituality, feminine leadership, collective intelligence, and planetary consciousness.A sought-after international speaker, Violeta invites us to see the current global crises not as signs of inevitable decline, but as birth pains of a new stage of human development. Her voice is both visionary and grounded, offering a hopeful and practical perspective on how humanity might consciously participate in creating a regenerative and life-affirming future.

https://www.ecocivilisation.earth/

Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com), offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

In this wide-ranging and deeply human conversation, Daniela speaks with Brendan Graham Dempsey about one of the defining questions of our time: Can we consciously co-create a "Third Attractor" beyond the twin futures of chaos and authoritarianism? We explore agency and emergence, the role of education in shaping civilization, the promise and peril of AI, the tension between individual transformation and institutional change, and whether humanity can cultivate the wisdom needed to navigate an increasingly complex world. Rather than offering easy answers, Brendan invites us into a more mature relationship with uncertainty, where hope is grounded not in certainty, but in our willingness to participate wholeheartedly in the unfolding future.

Brendan Graham Dempsey is a writer, researcher, and leading voice in the emerging field of metamodern spirituality. He serves as Director of Research at the  Institute of Applied Metatheory⁠, where he studies the evolution of worldviews, meaning-making systems, and cultural development. He holds a Master’s degree in Religion and the Arts from Yale University and has been deeply influenced by Integral Theory and the work of Ken Wilber.Brendan is the author of Metamodernism: Or, The Cultural Logic of Cultural Logics, the multi-volume Evolution of Meaning series, and Emergentism: A Religion of Complexity for the Metamodern World. His work explores the meaning crisis, the reconstruction of spirituality after postmodernism, and the emergence of new cultural and spiritual frameworks capable of integrating science, complexity, and transcendence.He is also founder of the  Sky Meadow Institute⁠ in Vermont, host of the Metamodern Spirituality podcast, and a prominent contributor to contemporary discussions on metamodernism, cultural evolution, and the future of meaning in a rapidly changing world.Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com), offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

In this rich and grounded conversation, Daniela speaks with Dr. Darrell Gooden, longtime Spiral Dynamics Integral practitioner, organizational transformation strategist, and student of Don Beck’s work. Together we explore the emergence of second-tier consciousness, the role of life conditions in cultural evolution, and whether humanity may be approaching the kind of “momentous leap” that Clare Graves anticipated decades ago. Darrell brings a practical perspective, emphasizing that the Third Attractor will not emerge through ideas alone, but through the gradual coalescence of coherent networks, values-based leadership, and new forms of organizational culture. We discuss collapse and possibility, coherence and complexity, and the importance of creating environments where trust, honesty, and collective intelligence can flourish. Darrell Gooden, Ph.D., is an organizational transformation strategist, Spiral Dynamics Integral expert, and certified Adizes Associate with more than 20 years of experience in Lean Six Sigma, knowledge engineering, strategic communications, and continuous improvement. Since beginning his work with Dr. Don Beck and the Spiral Dynamics Group in 1998, he has advised executives, entrepreneurs, and public-sector leaders on cultural change, organizational effectiveness, and complex systems transformation.Dr. Gooden teaches the Spiral Dynamics Integral Cultural Change Management course at the Adizes Graduate School and serves as Industry Liaison for Engineering, Energy, Environment, and Utilities at the Ventura County Office of Education. He continues to provide consulting, coaching, and training through the Spiral Dynamics Group and the Adizes Institute, presenting internationally on leadership, innovation, organizational change, and technology incubation. He holds a Ph.D. in Organizational Transformation from the Adizes Graduate School, an M.S. in Technology Management from Pepperdine University, and a B.S. in Management Information Systems from the University of Redlands. He is a recipient of the National Engineer’s Week Project of the Year Award and the National Shingo Lean Silver Medallion for Operational Excellence.Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com), offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

In this rich and far-reaching conversation, Annick de Witt and Daniela Bomatter explore the cultural and worldview dimensions of the metacrisis, arguing that many of our current challenges stem from outdated ways of making sense of reality. Together, we examine the rise of polarization, the need for deep worldview literacy, and why genuine dialogue may be one of the most powerful tools for cultural transformation. Annick points to an emerging integrative worldview that can hold complexity without collapsing into fragmentation, while emphasizing the importance of listening, meaning-making, and reconnecting with a deeper sense of participation in life itself. Rather than offering simple solutions, she invites us into a more mature relationship with diversity, consciousness, and the possibility of a new cultural story capable of guiding humanity through this time of profound transition.

Annick de Witt (Ph.D.) is the founding director of Worldview Journeys, and affiliated with Utrecht University as researcher and initiator of the Generative Dialogue Lab at campus.Annick is a published scholar, enthusiastic educator, and nonprofit leader with 20+ years’ experience in sustainability, worldview research, transformative education, and cultural change. She is the creator of the Worldview Test, the Worldview Journey, the Stream of Consciousness (SoC) Practice, and the Human Democratic Capabilities Meta-Map. She is skilled at bridging academic insight with practical application, and fostering creative collaborations across diverse fields and sectors.Annick writes both scientifically and popularly. She is also a passionate speaker and a skilled facilitator, with a background in transformative and contemplative approaches.https://worldviewjourneys.com/https://annickdewitt.com/

Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com), offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

In this deeply spiritual and philosophically rich conversation, Brad Reynolds argues that the real Third Attractor is ultimately an awakening attractor: a movement toward higher states of consciousness capable of integrating chaos and authoritarianism into a deeper civilizational coherence. Drawing on decades of work with Ken Wilber and the integral movement, Brad speaks passionately about the difference between “waking up” and true awakening, emphasizing that awakening cannot be reduced to meditation or transcendent states alone, but must include both Being and Becoming, spirit and evolutionary participation in the world. Together, we explore the metacrisis as fundamentally a spiritual crisis, the importance of devotional surrender, meditation, and embodied spiritual practice, and the need for a new integral culture that reconnects inner awakening with outer transformation. Again and again, Brad returns to the idea that genuine spiritual realization, not ideology alone, is what can become the deeper attractor guiding humanity toward a more coherent future.

Brad Reynolds did graduate work at the California Institute of Integral Studies (CIIS) before leaving to work closely with Ken Wilber and the Integral Institute for nearly a decade (1995–2004). He is the author of two books on Integral metatheory (AQAL): Embracing Reality: The Integral Vision of Ken Wilber (Tarcher, 2004) and Where’s Wilber At? Ken Wilber’s Integral Vision in the New Millennium (Paragon House, 2006). A longtime devotee of Adi Da Samraj for more than 45 years, Brad has also written extensively on the world’s wisdom traditions, including two books on Adi Da and the Perennial Philosophy. His newest book, Meta-Perennial Philosophia: Integrating Evolution and Enlightenment (Bright Alliance, 2026), offers a synthesis of Integral Theory, the Perennial Philosophy, developmental spirituality, and the distinction between Becoming (evolution) and Being (Enlightenment). Brad is also a professional graphic designer and the founder of Integral Art & Studies in Marin County, California.

Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.

As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.

She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com),  offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.

In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

In this profound and wide-ranging conversation, Indra Adnan challenges the urgency and crisis framing often surrounding the idea of the Third Attractor, suggesting instead that the current chaos may itself be part of a deeper evolutionary process rather than something to simply overcome. Together, Daniela and Indra explore the tension between emergence and agency, soft power and hard power, and the need to build living, attractive alternatives to existing systems through community, embodiment, art, relationship, and participatory culture. Indra speaks passionately about the importance of women holding wider fields of emergence, the rise of decentralized “islands of coherence,” and the possibility that humanity is already slowly reorganizing itself through local initiatives, regenerative communities, and new forms of collective intelligence. Rather than imposing another ideology from the top down, the conversation points toward a more relational, life-centered future in which people are brought back to aliveness, agency, and meaningful participation in the co-creation of culture.

Indra Adnan is a writer, political thinker, psycho-social therapist, and systems innovator whose work over the past two decades has explored future politics, conflict transformation, soft power, and integral approaches to cultural change. She is the co-founder of The Alternative UK, a political platform dedicated to reimagining democracy and collective life beyond the limitations of current systems, and has worked extensively with governments, international organizations, and global networks including the World Economic Forum and NATO. Through her writing, network-building, and community initiatives, Indra has consistently explored how personal transformation, relational intelligence, and cultural evolution intersect. She is also the author of the book The Politics of Waking Up: Power & Possibility in the Fractal Age, which articulates a deeply interconnected vision for the future of society.

https://indraadnan.global/

Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.

As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.

She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com),  offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.

In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

In this rich and wide-ranging conversation, Samantha and Daniela explore the Third Attractor as an already-emerging field of coherence arising in response to both chaos and authoritarianism. Drawing from evolutionary spirituality, ecology, and systems thinking, she speaks about “islands of coherence” forming across the world through people who are learning to listen deeply, surrender certainty, and respond from a place of interconnectedness rather than fear. Together, they reflect on the importance of not-knowing, embodied awareness, and the possibility that small but deeply connected nodes of consciousness can become tipping points for planetary transformation. The conversation moves fluidly between spirituality, systems change, Buddhist insight, and the practical challenge of remaining open and responsive in times of profound uncertainty.

Samantha Sweetwater is a master facilitator, executive coach, and founder of One Life Circle. For over three decades, she has guided individuals and organizations across five continents through personal, cultural, ecological, and spiritual regeneration. Working at the fertile edge where old systems unravel and new forms of kinship and leadership emerge, she supports visionary leaders to reclaim wholeness, clarify purpose, and cultivate the moral imagination needed for this metacritical moment.She previously founded Dancing Freedom and Peacebody Japan, sparking a global movement of embodied awakening and training hundreds of facilitators. A former seed farmer, she carries a deep understanding of tending the real. Samantha holds an MA in Wisdom Studies, a BA in Social Theory and Dance, and has been initiated into indigenous lineages of Africa, Latin America, and Turtle Island. She lives on fog-kissed Coastal Miwok land.https://www.samanthasweetwater.com/Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com), offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

In this conversation, Daniela Bomatter speaks with Dr. Brad Kershner about the challenge of creating cultures that can truly hold complexity without collapsing into simplistic solutions or rigid systems. Brad questions many inherited assumptions within integral and spiritual discourse, especially the persistent binaries between inner and outer, individual and collective, agency and emergence. Drawing from complexity science, collective trauma research, and post-structural philosophy, he argues that the real challenge is not simply personal transformation, but learning to recognize and shift the deeper “assemblage structures” and narrative patterns that shape perception itself. Rather than advocating for grand ideological visions, he emphasizes the importance of micro-narratives, local sense-making, and practices that cultivate the capacity to move intelligently within uncertainty and ambiguity. The conversation becomes a nuanced exploration of how a future culture might emerge not through fixed answers, but through more adaptive, relational, and participatory ways of being together.Dr. Brad Kershner is an educational leader, consultant, keynote speaker, and scholar. He is the co-founder of a meta-political think tank - The Reconstitution Project - and is the author of Understanding Educational Complexity: Integrating Practices and Perspectives for 21st Century Leadership. In addition to his work in education, Brad collaborates with thought leaders, think tanks, and organizations from around the world who are engaged in developing wisdom-based responses to planetary problems. He is a graduate of The University of Chicago and Boston College. You can follow his work at integratedemergence.substack.com.Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com), offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

In this conversation, Daniela Bomatter speaks with Trish Blain, a facilitator and community builder whose lifelong work centers on a model she calls the Four Forces: connection, expression, purpose, and growth. Trish argues that these four drives are in constant tension with each other, and that the failure to hold those tensions consciously is what keeps individuals and collectives locked in cycles of compromise rather than genuine co-creation. Her term for the third attractor is "the irresistible future" -- a state so compelling that people move toward it not out of obligation but because it actually feels better than any available alternative. She is skeptical of both incremental reform and purely outside-the-system alternatives, proposing instead a strategy of "alive edges": creating on-ramps at the boundary of the existing paradigm so people can transition without having to make an impossible leap. The conversation also moves into the practical difficulties of physical community, the gap between online dialogue and the friction of shared life, and why so much of the current transformation work fails to attract people -- because it asks for sacrifice rather than demonstrating vitality.Trish Blaine is a facilitator, relational practitioner, and cultural innovator working at the intersection of consciousness, community, and collective intelligence. Her work explores how human beings can learn to meet one another with greater depth, honesty, and aliveness in a time of profound cultural transition. Drawing from years of experience in transformational practice, group facilitation, and emergent culture, she is particularly interested in the relational capacities needed for a more coherent and life-affirming future to emerge.More about her here: https://nonordinary.com/meet-trish/Trish also just launched a new platform which you can find here: https://aliveedges.comDaniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com), offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

In this conversation, Steve McIntosh engages from a firmly integral philosophy standpoint, and the exchange is in many ways a productive friction with the series framing itself. McIntosh takes issue with the "third attractor" terminology, arguing that Schmachtenberger's framing bypasses one of the central insights of integral thought: the dialectical structure of cultural evolution through thesis, antithesis, and synthesis. His core claim is that any vision of what comes next must reckon seriously with progressive postmodernism as its own distinct stage, not simply leap from modernity to some better future. From there, the conversation unfolds across the political implications of developmental philosophy, the limits of building movements versus writing books, the work of the Institute for Developmental Philosophy, and the deep tensions in approaching cultural evolution from a position that insists on transcending and including rather than rejecting. McIntosh is skeptical of AI as an existential threat while remaining clear-eyed about its real risks, and equally skeptical of economic proposals that would dismantle rather than build on modernity.

Steve McIntosh is a philosopher of noosphere evolution whose work explores the development of consciousness, culture, and intrinsic value in our time. Influenced by thinkers such as Alfred North Whitehead and Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, he writes in the emerging field of developmental philosophy, articulating how humanity can evolve beyond polarization toward more integrative forms of meaning-making. He is the author of several influential books, including Developmental Politics, The Presence of the Infinite, Evolution’s Purpose, and Integral Consciousness and the Future of Evolution, with his forthcoming book Truth Emerging continuing this trajectory. Since 2013, he has served as cofounder and president of the Institute for Developmental Philosophy.

In addition to his philosophical work, McIntosh is an active public intellectual and social innovator. He has contributed political commentary to major outlets such as USA Today and RealClearPolitics, appeared on platforms including NPR and Rebel Wisdom, and co-created DepolarizingGPT, a political chatbot designed to foster more balanced perspectives. His work consistently bridges inner development and cultural transformation, offering a grounded yet visionary perspective on how a more coherent and evolved society could emerge.

https://www.stevemcintosh.com/

https://www.developmentalphilosophy.org/

Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.

As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.

She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com),  offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.

In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

In this conversation, Aterah Nusrat makes the case that the third attractor is not a future possibility but something already present, visible in the growing network of "islands of coherence" where people are working, in different ways and from different starting points, toward a more integral way of living and relating. The conversation moves into territory that is central to this series: the practice of intersubjective inquiry, the question of how collective states of consciousness are accessed and sustained, and what it would mean to bring those states out of laboratory conditions into actual culture. Aterah reflects on what was learned and what was missing in earlier experiments with group consciousness work, and what a more embodied, heart-informed approach to those spaces might look like. The two also examine the cognitive conditions for genuine openness: not the optimism that forecloses uncertainty, but the non-knowing that keeps action free.

Aterah Nusrat is Director of Programming in Integrative Medicine and Planetary Health at the Osher Center for Integrative Medicine, Harvard Medical School and Brigham and Women's Hospital. She holds an MSc in Environmental Technology from Imperial College London and certificates in climate change and health from HarvardX and the Yale School of Public Health. Her work connects integrative medicine with ecological sustainability, and she chairs the Osher Collaborative's Planetary Health Working Group. Alongside her professional career, she spent two decades in an international contemplative community within the eastern enlightenment tradition, an experience that deeply shaped her understanding of consciousness, collective life, and the relationship between inner practice and the world we inhabit.

Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.

As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.

She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com),  offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.

In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

Alexander Beiner is a filmmaker and writer whose documentary "Leviathan" Daniela reads as a portrait of why a fundamental transition is needed. The conversation opens with his central argument: that Western civilization has inverted its hierarchy of reality. What is most real, embodied presence, authentic relationship, the private interior life, has been pushed aside by abstraction. The financial system is one example he reaches for, where most money is created from nothing by private banks, but the point is broader: again and again, fantasy has become more primary than lived experience.From there the conversation moves into the practical question of how people learn to inhabit relational spaces more fully, given that human connection is genuinely difficult. Beiner draws on Seth Godin's definition of culture as "people like us do things like this" to frame how shared values make that easier, and he references the work of facilitator Trish Blaine on what he calls the other person problem. He is drawn to psychedelics as one among several technologies of transformation, not as a shortcut but as a way of temporarily dissolving the abstractions that keep people from experiencing what is actually most real. The conversation holds a productive tension around the question at the series' heart: whether a better future is something to be actively co-created or something that has to be allowed to emerge, and Beiner is honest that he does not have a clean answer.Alexander Beiner is a writer, journalist, and facilitator focused on culture, systems change, and sensemaking in a complex world. He is best known as a co-founder of Rebel Wisdom, an alternative media platform (2017–2022) that explored topics such as polarization, consciousness, and the evolving cultural landscape through long-form conversations and events.He is the author of The Bigger Picture: How Psychedelics Can Help Us Make Sense of the World and currently leads Kainos, a storytelling and media studio focused on helping people navigate societal transformation. Beiner is also an executive director of Breaking Convention, Europe’s longest-running conference on psychedelic science and culture, and has facilitated workshops and experiences for thousands of participants worldwide.His work sits at the intersection of psychology, spirituality, and cultural evolution, often exploring how new ways of thinking and inner development can help address today’s global challenges. here is the beginning of the AI-series Alxander mentioned: https://open.substack.com/pub/beiner/p/artificial-oracles-ai-and-the-future?utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=weband here the documentary "Leviathan": https://beiner.substack.com/p/leviathan-full-documentaryDaniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

Across the world, a new conversation is emerging—a conversation about the future of civilization itself.

As our existing systems reach their limits, we face an urgent crossroads: one path leads toward collapse, another toward increasing control and centralization. But a growing chorus of thinkers, visionaries, and cultural pioneers are pointing to a third possibility—a conscious, regenerative, and life-affirming future.

This series of conversations explores that possibility.

While we draw on the term Third Attractor—popularized by Daniel Schmachtenberger—this vision is part of a larger movement of aligned ideas: Regenerative Civilization, Metamodern Society, Game B, The More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know Is Possible, Planetary Civilization, The Integral Age, The Great Transition, Symbiotic Civilization, The Noosphere, Civilizational Awakening, and the Second Renaissance.

Each points toward a future rooted in wholeness, complexity, interconnection, and evolution.

Daniela is speaking with thought leaders and cultural change-agents who are helping to shape this emerging reality. We’ll explore what must die, what wants to be born, and how we might co-create a path forward that honors the full depth of our humanity and the profound challenges of our time.

These conversations are not just about ideas—they are about activating the future, together.

Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.

As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.

She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com),  offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.

In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

Cordula Frei is an internationally active author, eco-spiritual teacher, and somatic consciousness facilitator with over 30 years of experience as a senior trainer in Voice Dialogue. Her work bridges psychology, deep ecology, embodiment, ritual practice, and cultural transformation, bringing together inner development and collective change. Living between the Southern Black Forest in Germany and the Vosges mountains, she creates spaces that support individuals and communities in moving from fragmentation toward presence, integrated self-knowledge, and a regenerative relationship with life.Her approach weaves together inner experience, ecological awareness, mythic imagination, and nervous system intelligence. Through books, courses, podcasts, and editorial work, she explores how we can live more enlivened, conscious, and mature lives in times of systemic disruption. Explore her work here: Alchemy of Soul – https://www.parallax-media.com/books/alchemyofsoul | Wild & Wunderbar & Soulskin – https://www.phaenomen-verlag.de/buch/wild-und-wunderbar/ | Author page – https://www.phaenomen-verlag.de/autor/cordula-frei/ | Podcast Roots of Enlivenment – https://www.parallax-media.com/overview | Substack – https://cordulafrei.substack.com/

Across the world, a new conversation is emerging—a conversation about the future of civilization itself.

As our existing systems reach their limits, we face an urgent crossroads: one path leads toward collapse, another toward increasing control and centralization. But a growing chorus of thinkers, visionaries, and cultural pioneers are pointing to a third possibility—a conscious, regenerative, and life-affirming future.

This series of conversations explores that possibility.

While we draw on the term Third Attractor—popularized by Daniel Schmachtenberger—this vision is part of a larger movement of aligned ideas: Regenerative Civilization, Metamodern Society, Game B, The More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know Is Possible, Planetary Civilization, The Integral Age, The Great Transition, Symbiotic Civilization, The Noosphere, Civilizational Awakening, and the Second Renaissance.

Each points toward a future rooted in wholeness, complexity, interconnection, and evolution.

Daniela is speaking with thought leaders and cultural change-agents who are helping to shape this emerging reality. We’ll explore what must die, what wants to be born, and how we might co-create a path forward that honors the full depth of our humanity and the profound challenges of our time.

These conversations are not just about ideas—they are about activating the future, together.

Tom is an independent researcher (https://independent.academia.edu/HabibTom) with research interest in integral theory, sensory processing sensitivity (HSP), collective intelligence, and the higher stages of intimate couples. He is the past Chairperson for the IEC’s International Consortium of Integral Scholars, previously an adjunct professor at the Center for Integrative Psychology within the CaliforniaSchool of Professional Psychology, and a 10-year Chair of Medical Staff Well Being at Children’s Hospital, Mission Viejo, CA. Tom is active in San Diego Integral, the Integral European Conference and currently building ICON, the Integral Conference of North America. Tom served as the emcee of the highly successful 2022 What’s the Future Conference in Sedona, Arizona. Tom lives in Carlsbad, California withhis wife Christine A. Baser, R.N., Ph.D.As the organizer of the ICON conference (https://weareicon.org/), he curates spaces where diverse perspectives can meet in dialogue to explore pathways toward a more coherent and post-tragic future. His work centers on convening conversations that bridge inner development and systemic transformation, with a strong emphasis on collaboration, emergence, and practical application.

Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.

As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.

She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (⁠manifest-nirvana.com⁠),  offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.

In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

Across the world, a new conversation is emerging—a conversation about the future of civilization itself.

As our existing systems reach their limits, we face an urgent crossroads: one path leads toward collapse, another toward increasing control and centralization. But a growing chorus of thinkers, visionaries, and cultural pioneers are pointing to a third possibility—a conscious, regenerative, and life-affirming future.

This series of conversations explores that possibility.

While we draw on the term Third Attractor—popularized by Daniel Schmachtenberger—this vision is part of a larger movement of aligned ideas: Regenerative Civilization, Metamodern Society, Game B, The More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know Is Possible, Planetary Civilization, The Integral Age, The Great Transition, Symbiotic Civilization, The Noosphere, Civilizational Awakening, and the Second Renaissance.

Each points toward a future rooted in wholeness, complexity, interconnection, and evolution.

Daniela is speaking with thought leaders and cultural change-agents who are helping to shape this emerging reality. We’ll explore what must die, what wants to be born, and how we might co-create a path forward that honors the full depth of our humanity and the profound challenges of our time.

These conversations are not just about ideas—they are about activating the future, together.

Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.

As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.

She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com),  offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.

Richard Flyer is the author of Birthing the Symbiotic Age: An Ancient Blueprint for a New Creation (2023), published first as an introduction and then as a weekly serial on Substack, accompanied by voice-over chapters available as podcast episodes. His work is grounded in lived experience across the U.S., Sri Lanka, Hawaii, and Europe, shaped by early spiritual awakening, long-term practice, and close collaboration with grassroots movements for social, cultural, and ecological renewal.With over 40 years of experience experimenting with different forms of community and service, he has spent a lifetime exploring how humans can live and work together in more life-affirming ways. He is currently launching Symbiotic Culture as a global initiative to support local people and bioregions in learning how to practice symbiotic culture and build resilient, regenerative networks and communities.https://www.richardflyer.com/In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

Across the world, a new conversation is emerging—a conversation about the future of civilization itself.

As our existing systems reach their limits, we face an urgent crossroads: one path leads toward collapse, another toward increasing control and centralization. But a growing chorus of thinkers, visionaries, and cultural pioneers are pointing to a third possibility—a conscious, regenerative, and life-affirming future.

This series of conversations explores that possibility.

While we draw on the term Third Attractor—popularized by Daniel Schmachtenberger—this vision is part of a larger movement of aligned ideas: Regenerative Civilization, Metamodern Society, Game B, The More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know Is Possible, Planetary Civilization, The Integral Age, The Great Transition, Symbiotic Civilization, The Noosphere, Civilizational Awakening, and the Second Renaissance.

Each points toward a future rooted in wholeness, complexity, interconnection, and evolution.

Daniela is speaking with thought leaders and cultural change-agents who are helping to shape this emerging reality. We’ll explore what must die, what wants to be born, and how we might co-create a path forward that honors the full depth of our humanity and the profound challenges of our time.

These conversations are not just about ideas—they are about activating the future, together.

Adrian Wagner is moved by the possibility of dancing between applied complexity and precise emotional attunement - to generate space for traumatic events in our collective memory.
He works as an independent consultant for Complexity Partner and as a researcher for the Pocket Project. Adrian focuses on developing the organization’s scientific resource library for its website. Over the past 15 years, he has worked professionally as a teacher, researcher, coach, and transformation facilitator. He has collaborated with a range of institutions, including the European School of Governance, the German Federal Foreign Office, the Ludwigsburg Palace Festival, the European Commission, and Witten/Herdecke University.
He was co-editor of a research report entitled “Trauma and Democracy,” which synthesizes the insights of Dave Snowden and Thomas Hübl to explore innovative approaches to integrating collective trauma.
At the heart of his ethos lies a deep commitment to forging new pathways for collective growth and resilience—infusing complexity, compassion, and transformative leadership into everything he does.

https://eusg.org/

Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.

As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.

She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com),  offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.

In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

Across the world, a new conversation is emerging—a conversation about the future of civilization itself.

As our existing systems reach their limits, we face an urgent crossroads: one path leads toward collapse, another toward increasing control and centralization. But a growing chorus of thinkers, visionaries, and cultural pioneers are pointing to a third possibility—a conscious, regenerative, and life-affirming future.

This series of conversations explores that possibility.

While we draw on the term Third Attractor—popularized by Daniel Schmachtenberger—this vision is part of a larger movement of aligned ideas: Regenerative Civilization, Metamodern Society, Game B, The More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know Is Possible, Planetary Civilization, The Integral Age, The Great Transition, Symbiotic Civilization, The Noosphere, Civilizational Awakening, and the Second Renaissance.

Each points toward a future rooted in wholeness, complexity, interconnection, and evolution.

Daniela is speaking with thought leaders and cultural change-agents who are helping to shape this emerging reality. We’ll explore what must die, what wants to be born, and how we might co-create a path forward that honors the full depth of our humanity and the profound challenges of our time.

These conversations are not just about ideas—they are about activating the future, together.

Christian Häuselmann is an innovation-driven Swiss economist and serial entrepreneur with more than 25 years of experience shaping the Cleantech and circular economy landscape. After pioneering the first Swiss e-bike in the early 1990s and winning the Vigier Young Entrepreneur Award for bringing the FLYER electric bike to market, he went on to work across start-ups, global organizations, and policy arenas to accelerate sustainable transformation.

He is the founder of SHIFT Switzerland, a platform that has been catalyzing circular economy ecosystems since 2012 through high-impact business matchmaking and annual SHIFT events. Christian also launched 2291 – 1000 Years Switzerland, an ambitious initiative designed to foster long-term thinking across generations and regions and to inspire a deeper cultural imagination for Switzerland’s future.

Earlier, he co-founded Café Europe AG, a NewsTech agency publishing punkt4 and Swisstrade, and he founded swisscleantech, which he developed into one of Switzerland’s leading sustainable business and policy networks.

Christian holds an MS in Business Administration from the University of Berne and today lives in San Diego, where he continues to build bridges between innovation, sustainability, and long-range cultural vision.

Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.

As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.

She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com),  offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.

In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

Across the world, a new conversation is emerging—a conversation about the future of civilization itself.

As our existing systems reach their limits, we face an urgent crossroads: one path leads toward collapse, another toward increasing control and centralization. But a growing chorus of thinkers, visionaries, and cultural pioneers are pointing to a third possibility—a conscious, regenerative, and life-affirming future.

This series of conversations explores that possibility.

While we draw on the term Third Attractor—popularized by Daniel Schmachtenberger—this vision is part of a larger movement of aligned ideas: Regenerative Civilization, Metamodern Society, Game B, The More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know Is Possible, Planetary Civilization, The Integral Age, The Great Transition, Symbiotic Civilization, The Noosphere, Civilizational Awakening, and the Second Renaissance.

Each points toward a future rooted in wholeness, complexity, interconnection, and evolution.

Daniela is speaking with thought leaders and cultural change-agents who are helping to shape this emerging reality. We’ll explore what must die, what wants to be born, and how we might co-create a path forward that honors the full depth of our humanity and the profound challenges of our time.

These conversations are not just about ideas—they are about activating the future, together.

Daniel Oser is a unique thinker, an initiator and inventor. He lectures at the Sri Aurobindo Unidiversity at the Aurovalley Ashram in Rishikesh Designing Future, facilitating a shift in worldview, guiding into presence and nurturing embodiment. Connect with Daniel through https://www.domed.de/.

Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.

As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.

She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com),  offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.

In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

Across the world, a new conversation is emerging—a conversation about the future of civilization itself.

As our existing systems reach their limits, we face an urgent crossroads: one path leads toward collapse, another toward increasing control and centralization. But a growing chorus of thinkers, visionaries, and cultural pioneers are pointing to a third possibility—a conscious, regenerative, and life-affirming future.

This series of conversations explores that possibility.

While we draw on the term Third Attractor—popularized by Daniel Schmachtenberger—this vision is part of a larger movement of aligned ideas: Regenerative Civilization, Metamodern Society, Game B, The More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know Is Possible, Planetary Civilization, The Integral Age, The Great Transition, Symbiotic Civilization, The Noosphere, Civilizational Awakening, and the Second Renaissance.

Each points toward a future rooted in wholeness, complexity, interconnection, and evolution.

Daniela is speaking with thought leaders and cultural change-agents who are helping to shape this emerging reality. We’ll explore what must die, what wants to be born, and how we might co-create a path forward that honors the full depth of our humanity and the profound challenges of our time.

These conversations are not just about ideas—they are about activating the future, together.

Jeffrey J. Kripal holds the J. Newton Rayzor Chair in Philosophy and Religious Thought at Rice University, where he chaired the Department of Religion for eight years and helped create the GEM Program, a doctoral concentration in the study of Gnosticism, Esotericism, and Mysticism that is the largest program of its kind in the world. He is presently serving as Associate Dean of the Faculty and Graduate Studies in the School of Humanities. He is also the Associate Director of the Center for Theory and Research at the Esalen Institute in Big Sur, California. Jeff is the editor-in-chief of the Macmillan Handbook Series on Religion (ten volumes) and the author of eight monographs, including, most recently, The Superhumanities: Historical Precedents, Moral Objections, New Realities (Chicago, 2022). He is presently working on a three-volume study of paranormal currents in the history of science and American metaphysical literature for the University of Chicago Press collectively entitled The Super Story. His full body of work can be seen at http://jeffreyjkripal.comDaniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.

As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.

She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com),  offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.

In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

Across the world, a new conversation is emerging—a conversation about the future of civilization itself.

As our existing systems reach their limits, we face an urgent crossroads: one path leads toward collapse, another toward increasing control and centralization. But a growing chorus of thinkers, visionaries, and cultural pioneers are pointing to a third possibility—a conscious, regenerative, and life-affirming future.

This series of conversations explores that possibility.

While we draw on the term Third Attractor—popularized by Daniel Schmachtenberger—this vision is part of a larger movement of aligned ideas: Regenerative Civilization, Metamodern Society, Game B, The More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know Is Possible, Planetary Civilization, The Integral Age, The Great Transition, Symbiotic Civilization, The Noosphere, Civilizational Awakening, and the Second Renaissance.

Each points toward a future rooted in wholeness, complexity, interconnection, and evolution.

Daniela is speaking with thought leaders and cultural change-agents who are helping to shape this emerging reality. We’ll explore what must die, what wants to be born, and how we might co-create a path forward that honors the full depth of our humanity and the profound challenges of our time.

These conversations are not just about ideas—they are about activating the future, together.

Mary Adams is a co-founder of the organic innovation hub 3rd Space and serves as Executive Director and Trustee of the Emergence Foundation, which supports pioneering social and environmental initiatives across the UK and Europe.

Her academic journey began with a degree in South Asian Philosophy and Language from Australian National University, after which she embarked on years of immersive inquiry in India—under the guidance of sages like Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, J. Krishnamurti and Vimala Thakar.

Trained in psychotherapy and a founding member of the Gaia House International Meditation Centre, Mary has co-founded and facilitated human-development centres in the UK, Europe and the USA. She is also a long-time student and partner in the work of Andrew Cohen—sharing 27 years of practice, inter-subjective dialogue facilitation, group design and intentional-community living.

Now based in London, Mary writes, designs intercultural dialogues and engages in non-violent civil-disobedience initiatives—working within a global network committed to shifting the paradigm that underpins the planetary metacrisis we face today.

https://3rd-space.org/Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.

As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.

She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com),  offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.

In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

Across the world, a new conversation is emerging—a conversation about the future of civilization itself.

As our existing systems reach their limits, we face an urgent crossroads: one path leads toward collapse, another toward increasing control and centralization. But a growing chorus of thinkers, visionaries, and cultural pioneers are pointing to a third possibility—a conscious, regenerative, and life-affirming future.

This series of conversations explores that possibility.

While we draw on the term Third Attractor—popularized by Daniel Schmachtenberger—this vision is part of a larger movement of aligned ideas: Regenerative Civilization, Metamodern Society, Game B, The More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know Is Possible, Planetary Civilization, The Integral Age, The Great Transition, Symbiotic Civilization, The Noosphere, Civilizational Awakening, and the Second Renaissance.

Each points toward a future rooted in wholeness, complexity, interconnection, and evolution.

Daniela is speaking with thought leaders and cultural change-agents who are helping to shape this emerging reality. We’ll explore what must die, what wants to be born, and how we might co-create a path forward that honors the full depth of our humanity and the profound challenges of our time.

These conversations are not just about ideas—they are about activating the future, together.Cécile Renouard is a French philosopher, business-ethics scholar, and co-founder of the Campus de la Transition, an innovative living-laboratory for ecological and social transformation. She directs the CODEV research programme at ESSEC Business School, where her work explores how enterprises can assume genuine ethical, political, and ecological responsibility within a deeply interdependent world.

A professor at Centre Sèvres – Facultés jésuites de Paris, and a teacher at institutions such as Mines Paris and Sciences Po, she brings together rigorous scholarship, field research, and practical experimentation. Her publications on corporate responsibility, the commons, and the “grande transition” have become reference points for rethinking the role of organisations in a time of planetary crisis.

Renouard’s contribution to the Third Attractor landscape lies in her capacity to bridge systemic ethics with real-world institutional innovation, offering a grounded vision of how businesses, communities, and educational institutions can participate in shaping a regenerative future.

https://www.campus-transition.org/en/

https://lsri.campion.ox.ac.uk/sites/default/files/inline-files/The-Great-Transition-Guide-Principles-for-a-Transformative-Education_0.pdf

Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.

As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.

She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com),  offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.

In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

Across the world, a new conversation is emerging—a conversation about the future of civilization itself.

As our existing systems reach their limits, we face an urgent crossroads: one path leads toward collapse, another toward increasing control and centralization. But a growing chorus of thinkers, visionaries, and cultural pioneers are pointing to a third possibility—a conscious, regenerative, and life-affirming future.

This series of conversations explores that possibility.

While we draw on the term Third Attractor—popularized by Daniel Schmachtenberger—this vision is part of a larger movement of aligned ideas: Regenerative Civilization, Metamodern Society, Game B, The More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know Is Possible, Planetary Civilization, The Integral Age, The Great Transition, Symbiotic Civilization, The Noosphere, Civilizational Awakening, and the Second Renaissance.

Each points toward a future rooted in wholeness, complexity, interconnection, and evolution.

Daniela is speaking with thought leaders and cultural change-agents who are helping to shape this emerging reality. We’ll explore what must die, what wants to be born, and how we might co-create a path forward that honors the full depth of our humanity and the profound challenges of our time.

These conversations are not just about ideas—they are about activating the future, together.Rebecca (Grace) Rachmany is one of the leaders in the areas of tokenomics, blockchain governance and distributed technology. She is an expert in practicalities of how to lead a decentralized/distributed organization, DAO governance consultant and brings 25 years of hands-on management of teams and cross-team cooperation, She is also the founder of Voice of Humanity, which creates systems of collaboration, governance and currency design, and reconstruction of human economic systems.

https://sideways.earth/

https://gracerachmany.com/

https://www.voiceofhumanity.one/

https://www.daoleadership.com/

Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.

As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.

She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com),  offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.

In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

Across the world, a new conversation is emerging—a conversation about the future of civilization itself.

As our existing systems reach their limits, we face an urgent crossroads: one path leads toward collapse, another toward increasing control and centralization. But a growing chorus of thinkers, visionaries, and cultural pioneers are pointing to a third possibility—a conscious, regenerative, and life-affirming future.

This series of conversations explores that possibility.

While we draw on the term Third Attractor—popularized by Daniel Schmachtenberger—this vision is part of a larger movement of aligned ideas: Regenerative Civilization, Metamodern Society, Game B, The More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know Is Possible, Planetary Civilization, The Integral Age, The Great Transition, Symbiotic Civilization, The Noosphere, Civilizational Awakening, and the Second Renaissance.

Each points toward a future rooted in wholeness, complexity, interconnection, and evolution.

Daniela is speaking with thought leaders and cultural change-agents who are helping to shape this emerging reality. We’ll explore what must die, what wants to be born, and how we might co-create a path forward that honors the full depth of our humanity and the profound challenges of our time.

These conversations are not just about ideas—they are about activating the future, together.John Churchill, was Born in London, Dr. John Churchill’s lifelong focus has been on psycho-spiritual development, Integral theory, contemplative studies, Western Esotericism, and Mahayana Buddhism. As a young man, he received the esoteric Planetary Dharma transmissions that would later unfold as his contribution to Fourth Turning teachings.

Formerly a Buddhist monk at Samye Ling Monastery in Scotland, John spent 15 years training in “Great Seal” meditation under Dr. Daniel P. Brown. He is also a founding member of Ken Wilber’s Integral Institute.

For 25 years, John has been developing the Fourth Turning Planetary Dharma, including a redesigned Nine Stages of Calm-Staying and the somatic path Embodying the Open Ground, integrating meditation, psychodynamic healing, and adult development.

He holds a Doctorate in Clinical Psychology from William James College and is a practitioner of Traditional Chinese Medicine. Married to Nicole since 2000, they share two teenagers and three dogs.

https://www.planetarydharma.com/karunamandala.org

Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.

As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.

She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com),  offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.

In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

Across the world, a new conversation is emerging—a conversation about the future of civilization itself.

As our existing systems reach their limits, we face an urgent crossroads: one path leads toward collapse, another toward increasing control and centralization. But a growing chorus of thinkers, visionaries, and cultural pioneers are pointing to a third possibility—a conscious, regenerative, and life-affirming future.

This series of conversations explores that possibility.

While we draw on the term Third Attractor—popularized by Daniel Schmachtenberger—this vision is part of a larger movement of aligned ideas: Regenerative Civilization, Metamodern Society, Game B, The More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know Is Possible, Planetary Civilization, The Integral Age, The Great Transition, Symbiotic Civilization, The Noosphere, Civilizational Awakening, and the Second Renaissance.

Each points toward a future rooted in wholeness, complexity, interconnection, and evolution.

Daniela is speaking with thought leaders and cultural change-agents who are helping to shape this emerging reality. We’ll explore what must die, what wants to be born, and how we might co-create a path forward that honors the full depth of our humanity and the profound challenges of our time.

These conversations are not just about ideas—they are about activating the future, together.U.S.-born Catherine Pawasarat practiced the ayahuasca sacrament in the 1990s, while working as a photojournalist specializing in environmental and human rights. For 20 years she lived in Kyoto, where she met Buddhist teacher Achariya Qapel in 1998. She trained daily with him in an intensive spiritual apprenticeship that’s rare in the modern West.

In 2004 Qapel and Cata co-founded the Clear Sky Retreat Center in British Columbia, Canada. There Cata has co-cultivated an innovative, generative organization with conscious community. Together Qapel and Cata have also taught virtually through Planet Dharma. Clear Sky and Planet Dharma have evolved as living labs supporting community movement through Integral stage development together, including experiments with group guru.

An expert in traditional Japanese culture, Cata advocates for the spiritually transformative and generative nature of Kyoto’s ancient Shinto Gion Festival. She also teaches about the unique roles of Women in Buddhism.

Learn more at:www.planetdharma.comhttps://www.clearskycenter.org/

Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.

As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.

She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com),  offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.

In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

This conversation was recorded in German and translated and dubbed by ChatGPT and CapCut.This time Daniela was invited by Daniel Melle to his Podcast to have a conversation about the Third Attractor.This is the original Video in German on Daniel's channel: https://youtu.be/-x2miAotxa0?si=qMywq7S51-spEQaS

Daniel Melle is a German “cultural hacker” and self‑described architect of the Third Attractor—a future possibility beyond collapse or control, toward regenerative systems and evolutionary culture.

With a practice rooted in the philosophy of Spiral Dynamics, consciousness development, and technological evolution, Daniel works at the intersection of narrative, perception, and collective transition. He explores how cultural operating‑systems (narratives, habits, memes) transform into movements and new forms of society.

In his role as facilitator and speaker, he invites individuals and groups to become “resonance‑bodies for what is emerging,” shifting cultural codes so that new collaborative architectures can arise. His work spans online workshops, consulting around conscious change, and writing on the evolution of culture in rapid‑change environments. Daniel Melle

In the Co‑Creating the Third Attractor series, Daniel offers a compelling voice for how we might move from systems of fragmentation into coherent planetary co‑creation—bringing depth, systems‑awareness and a pioneering spirit to the conversation.

Across the world, a new conversation is emerging—a conversation about the future of civilization itself.

As our existing systems reach their limits, we face an urgent crossroads: one path leads toward collapse, another toward increasing control and centralization. But a growing chorus of thinkers, visionaries, and cultural pioneers are pointing to a third possibility—a conscious, regenerative, and life-affirming future.

This series of conversations explores that possibility.

While we draw on the term Third Attractor—popularized by Daniel Schmachtenberger—this vision is part of a larger movement of aligned ideas: Regenerative Civilization, Metamodern Society, Game B, The More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know Is Possible, Planetary Civilization, The Integral Age, The Great Transition, Symbiotic Civilization, The Noosphere, Civilizational Awakening, and the Second Renaissance.

Each points toward a future rooted in wholeness, complexity, interconnection, and evolution.

Daniela is speaking with thought leaders and cultural change-agents who are helping to shape this emerging reality. We’ll explore what must die, what wants to be born, and how we might co-create a path forward that honors the full depth of our humanity and the profound challenges of our time.

These conversations are not just about ideas—they are about activating the future, together.

Christopher Cooke is the founder and Managing Director of 5 Deep Limited and the co-founder of 3LM, the Savory Network hub for the UK & Ireland. Trained in change leadership and systems thinking (MSc, BA) and a Fellow of the RSA, he’s known for applying Spiral Dynamics / integral frameworks to real-world regeneration and Holistic Management. At 3LM he serves as an Accredited Professional of the Savory Institute, educator, field professional, and Ecological Outcome Verifier, with work on rangelands and farms in the UK, Australia, and drought-affected regions. His change practice dates back to the early 1980s, and he’s helped farmers, businesses, and public leaders shift from sustainability to long-term regeneration

https://www.3lm.network

https://www.5deep.net

Daniela Bomatter, originally from Switzerland, is a former Software Engineer who progressed into various leadership roles, ultimately serving as the CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland.

She is the co-founder of Manifest Nirvana and a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment. She was a long-term student of Andrew Cohen and was closely studying, working and living with him from 2016 to 2025.

She lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, in a Small Sustainable Village (https://www.giamantraglobalvillage.com/) where she runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, where the in person - events of Manifest Nirvana happen. She also facilitates the activities in the online Ashram https://www.manifest-nirvana.com . 

She recently published her first book “The Viratya Myth begins” (https://www.viratya.com )

Instagram:  #evolutionarynun

Across the world, a new conversation is emerging—a conversation about the future of civilization itself.

As our existing systems reach their limits, we face an urgent crossroads: one path leads toward collapse, another toward increasing control and centralization. But a growing chorus of thinkers, visionaries, and cultural pioneers are pointing to a third possibility—a conscious, regenerative, and life-affirming future.

This series of conversations explores that possibility.

While we draw on the term Third Attractor—popularized by Daniel Schmachtenberger—this vision is part of a larger movement of aligned ideas: Regenerative Civilization, Metamodern Society, Game B, The More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know Is Possible, Planetary Civilization, The Integral Age, The Great Transition, Symbiotic Civilization, The Noosphere, Civilizational Awakening, and the Second Renaissance.

Each points toward a future rooted in wholeness, complexity, interconnection, and evolution.

Daniela is speaking with thought leaders and cultural change-agents who are helping to shape this emerging reality. We’ll explore what must die, what wants to be born, and how we might co-create a path forward that honors the full depth of our humanity and the profound challenges of our time.

These conversations are not just about ideas—they are about activating the future, together.Elizabeth Debold, Ed.D. is co-founder of emerge bewusstseinskultur in Germany and evolve World internationally, where she leads global programs, cultural collaborations, and outreach in English. She is also a senior editor at evolve magazine, contributing regularly on themes of gender and social transformation.

For over four decades, Elizabeth has been at the forefront of gender and cultural evolution. The first half of her career was devoted to women’s rights activism and academic research in developmental psychology at Harvard University, where she studied with Dr. Carol Gilligan and helped establish the Harvard Project on Women’s Psychology and Girls’ Development.

Over the past two decades, her inquiry has deepened—exploring the foundations of self and relationship through the lens of consciousness. Her work reveals how gender identity is inseparably entangled with social systems—economics, media, politics—and intersecting hierarchies of race, wealth, culture, and religion.

A passionate architect of transformational dialogue, Elizabeth is especially interested in creating microcultures where diverse individuals can connect across differences to unlock new creative and evolutionary potentials. The programs of emerge are living laboratories for this vision.

Daniela Bomatter, originally from Switzerland, is a former Software Engineer who progressed into various leadership roles, ultimately serving as the CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland.

She is the co-founder of Manifest Nirvana and a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment. She was a long-term student of Andrew Cohen and was closely studying, working and living with him from 2016 to 2025.

She lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, in a Small Sustainable Village (https://www.giamantraglobalvillage.com/) where she runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, where the in person - events of Manifest Nirvana happen. She also facilitates the activities in the online Ashram https://www.manifest-nirvana.com . 

She recently published her first book “The Viratya Myth begins” (https://www.viratya.com )

Instagram:  #evolutionarynun

Across the world, a new conversation is emerging—a conversation about the future of civilization itself.

As our existing systems reach their limits, we face an urgent crossroads: one path leads toward collapse, another toward increasing control and centralization. But a growing chorus of thinkers, visionaries, and cultural pioneers are pointing to a third possibility—a conscious, regenerative, and life-affirming future.

This series of conversations explores that possibility.

While we draw on the term Third Attractor—popularized by Daniel Schmachtenberger—this vision is part of a larger movement of aligned ideas: Regenerative Civilization, Metamodern Society, Game B, The More Beautiful World Our Hearts Know Is Possible, Planetary Civilization, The Integral Age, The Great Transition, Symbiotic Civilization, The Noosphere, Civilizational Awakening, and the Second Renaissance.

Each points toward a future rooted in wholeness, complexity, interconnection, and evolution.

Daniela is speaking with thought leaders and cultural change-agents who are helping to shape this emerging reality. We’ll explore what must die, what wants to be born, and how we might co-create a path forward that honors the full depth of our humanity and the profound challenges of our time.

These conversations are not just about ideas—they are about activating the future, together.Diane Musho Hamilton was the first Director of the Office of Alternative Dispute Resolution for the Utah Judiciary, where she established mediation programs across the state court system. She has mediated a wide range of disputes—from divorces and contracts to multi-party negotiations—and works with ease across private, governmental, and non-profit sectors.

Widely recognized for her pioneering work in dialogue, particularly on culture, race, gender, and religion, Diane has received numerous awards, including the Peter W. Billings Award, the Peacekeeper Award, and the Peacemaker Award from BYU’s Center for Conflict Resolution.

A dedicated meditation practitioner for over 35 years, Diane began her spiritual path at Naropa University with Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche and later became a Zen student, receiving ordination as a monk in 2003 and dharma transmission from Genpo Roshi in 2006. For her, Zen practice is a commitment to experiencing reality as it is—beautiful, ungraspable, and seamless.

She facilitates the Big Mind Big Heart process and is a pioneer in applying Integral Theory, working with Ken Wilber and the Integral Institute since 2004. In 2008, she co-founded Two Arrows Zen in Utah with her husband, Michael Mugaku Zimmerman, and also co-founded the Integral Facilitator training program.

Diane is the author of three books with Shambhala Publications:

• Everything Is Workable: A Zen Approach to Conflict Resolution (2013)
  

• The Zen of You and Me: A Guide to Getting Along with Just About Anyone (2017)
  

• Compassionate Conversations: How to Speak and Listen from the Heart (2020, co-authored with Gabriel Wilson and Kimberly Loh)

https://twoarrowszen.org/https://www.dianemushohamilton.com/

Daniela Bomatter, originally from Switzerland, is a former Software Engineer who progressed into various leadership roles, ultimately serving as the CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland.

She is the co-founder of Manifest Nirvana and a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment. She was a long-term student of Andrew Cohen and was closely studying, working and living with him from 2016 to 2025.

She lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, in a Small Sustainable Village (https://www.giamantraglobalvillage.com/) where she runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, where the in person - events of Manifest Nirvana happen. She also facilitates the activities in the online Ashram https://www.manifest-nirvana.com . 

She recently published her first book “The Viratya Myth begins” (https://www.viratya.com )

Instagram:  #evolutionarynun