Kay Van Wey is a  board-certified personal injury trial lawyer with over 30 years of experience. She is the principal owner and founder of Van Wey, Presby & Williams, a Dallas, Texas-based personal injury litigation boutique firm. When Kay isn't managing her firm or practicing law, she advocates for patient safety. Kay is a big believer in finding your "why", which is one of the things she credits for her ongoing enthusiasm for her work.

Publicity - high profile cases and were stories that needed to be told and developed relationships with reporters.

How are you keeping up those relationships? Capitalizing on them?

• Dr. Death/Dr. Duntsch
  • high profile case and got lots of PR
  • spent lots of time & money on that case
  • Dr. Duntsch reached out to Kay to threaten and ask for a job.
  • Dr. Oz show - thought she'd get tons of clients from that and didn't
  • Dallas news organizations
• Attorney At Law magazine articles
  • Small but Mighty article: https://attorneyatlawmagazine.com/kay-van-wey
  • "Standing up for the little guy"
• Marketing has been hard over the years and has involved a lot of patience and learning.
• When it comes to picking a marketing agency, Kay has been really picky about content, which makes the cost high from her time and her associates time perspective.
• 10 years prior to Dr. Dutch, Kay's firm represented a similar case and was on 60 minutes. Unfortuantely with no effect or results of getting clients. It just shows that big PR cases don't necessarily lead to more clients in your firm. 

Discussion of ways lawyers can be there for clients (and potential clients) in the uncertain COVID-19 environment. We also say congratulations, farewell, good luck, and until next time to Kelly as she embarks on her new venture.

For this episode, Kelly is joined by Raif Palmer, an Illinois Family Law Attorney, to dive deep on client experience and how to streamline, improve, and incorporate technology in a mindful way. 

Raiford Palmer is a shareholder in a 12 attorney divorce and family law firm, Sullivan Taylor, Gumina and Palmer, P.C. (now d/b/a STG Divorce Law).  The firm serves clients in the Chicagoland area. He has a passion for client service and law firm management, and truly enjoys working with the team at the firm to help clients improve their lives and those of their families. When not working, Raif enjoys wall climbing, skiing, surfing, and paintball with his wife (and law partner) Juli and their children.

Face-to-Face > Email, Text, Phone in Client Experience

Client Development- sharing files, Slack & private channels for client communication, using Clio & Clio Grow, has lots of referral business but they also do technology and marketing- want to grow and not just stay in neutral, resistant to change and how that affects the practice.

The practice of law and being a good lawyer is table stakes- it's the rest of this stuff that makes all the difference.

Rebranding your firm- how to carefully do this and make sure your clients aren't confused. Work with a branding expert and make the changes slowly over a short period of time, transitioning your brand more than full rebranding.

How being resistant to change is holding you, your law firm, and your clients back from better outcomes.

How to add something new? Experiment on a small scale, try limited options or have just one lawyer try the new technology and see how it works before you roll out to everyone in the firm.

Humanizing your firm: Read your reviews and know what people are saying about you and your law firm online.

 Note writing site: www.handwrytten.com

Gyi and Kelly dig into the Clio Trends report and break down the pieces of the study. They also have some constructive criticism and suggestions for improvements Clio can make for next year's report. 

We covered these sections:

• Referrals:
  • In 2019's report, 59% of clients sought a referral from someone they know or have been in contact with, but 57% searched on their own through some other means—and 16% did both. Compared to 2017's report, which showed that 62% of clients sought a referral from someone they know and only 37% used a search engine.
• What do clients want in a lawyer?
• Millennials & Lawyers
• Shopping For a Lawyer
• What do clients want for Client Experience?
• Responsiveness

Delisi Friday- Marketing Director at Cowen | Rodriguez | Peacock

What is it like to be an in-house marketer at a law firm?

How does the law firm get clients?

How do you avoid "the-all-things-to all people"- the idea that I have to be an expert at everything" scenario?

Advice for people hiring an in-house marketer?

• Delisi manages all of the firm's marketing and business development initiatives. Incorporating marketing and the client development process makes sure their potential and current clients have a seamless experience, and that expectations set in marketing are met in the office. 
• Off The Record- a monthly magazine exclusively for attorneys,
• Trial Lawyer Nation- a legal podcast for attorneys in over 70 countries, 
• Business development;
  • Nurturing of referral attorney relationships, 
    • utilizing the corporate suite at the AT&T Center and,
    • planning CLE seminars for attorneys. 

• Travis Patterson is the Managing Partner of Patterson Law Group – a family-owned plaintiff's personal injury practice in Fort Worth, Texas. Travis is extremely fortunate to be law partners with his beautiful wife Anna Patterson and his supportive father, Mike Patterson, who started the firm in 1995. When not working with his clients or on the practice, Travis can be seen in endless pursuit of his and Anna's two young sons – Hayes and Jack – and two goldendoodles – Graham and Graford.

Topics: 

• Marketing overview- what is your law firm doing to get clients? 
• Where are clients in their lives when they do legal outreach? What are your client's expectations upon contacting you?
• "Inside Out Marketing." Starting from the inside of your firm (current clients) and work your way out (future clients). 
  • What does your office look like? 
  • Create a client experience to set the tone for your clients:
    • What expectations are you setting when you answer the phone and they enter your office?
  • Reviews that support referrals 
  • Proactive Communication
  • Show up as a "human" for your clients.
• Diversifying your marketing: SEO, Videos, Paid Facebook (retargeting), Referral sources, etc.
  • Where you are marketing must match your expected outcome and where clients are in the sales funnel.
  • Retargeting is an important element of online marketing.
• For Lawyers section on your website- is that working well?
• Website within a website: Secondary/Spanish website
• Erin Gerstenzang article about being nice to your clients. 

Gyi and Kelly took a break from recording in August and they're super excited to be back, talking tech tools for internet marketing!

When it comes to marketing tools, make sure that you understand how to use them and that you are getting added ROI by using the tool.

Tools for PPC - Make sure to have tools for Speed, Mobile, and A/B testing.

• Unbounce - landing pages
• Optimizely for landing page testing
• Keyword research tools
  • Answer The Public
  • Clearscope

Tools for SEO

• Ask clients or non-lawyers how they would describe the searches they would do to get help for that issue.
• Ahrefs
• Keyword Planner
• Google Search Console- check the impression data
• SEMRush
• Google Analytics

Tracking Tools

• Whitespark
• Brightlocal

Tools for Everything Else

• Automation & social media planning tools:
  • Meet Edgar,
  • Sendible,
  • Hootsuite
  • Buffer
  • Later
  • Sprout- more expensive but has more options for larger firms
  • Mention
• Social Media Ads:
  • AdEspresso
• Image tools: 
  • Biteable, Canva, Ripple, Over, Clipomatic for story captions.
• Reviews:
  • GatherUp
  • Podium
• Email Tools:
  • MailChimp
    • Facebook & Instagram Ads 
    • Automation

On this episode of Clienting, Gyi and Kelly answer former guest Rob Schenk's questions on journalist outreach, HARO, and conferences.

Outreach

• The first rule of journalist outreach- you have to have a story!
• When doing outreach, the creative aspect is super important- don't make a journalist have to work for the story, give it to them.
• Journalists are people too- they want to know that you have more to offer than "I'm a lawyer and have things to say." Engage with them over time, "I'm here to help you cover this issue."
• Demonstrate expertise by showcasing examples from your experience. 
• Have a few outreach templates for this, which you can easily find in a Google search. Search for "PR Journalist Outreach Tools"
• Twitter: Search for subjects and people in your geographic area. 
• Focus on local reporters that cover stories related to your practice area and make sure they include your law firm website and/or your name. 
• Go where your audience is- if your audience is local, stick to local or industry-specific. 
• HARO - Help A Reporter Out, is a network for reporters and sources to find one another. You can register yourself as an expert and seek out the source requests. 
• Think about building a landing page for your lawyer outreach and speaking bio. You could include links to articles and quotes from articles here that you may not always want to, or be able to, include on your law firm website.
• Make sure to include the source material, your quote, your links, and everything needed for the article in your outreach. 
• Use Mention and Google Alerts to keep track of links and mentions where they may not link to you. Many sites now have a no-link policy.

Conference Advice 

What matters? The format, the speakers, and you. Are you participating? Who are the speakers? What are the topics? What is the format? Workshops allow you more engagement with the experts, so if you want to dive in, focus on those. 

• Legal Conferences:
  • ABA Techshow - this year will include a Marketing Technology track
  • AAJ - Their mid-year (Winter) conference includes a marketing track
  • National Trial Lawyers Summit
  • Crisp Gamechanger conference
  • Clio
  • PILMMA 
  • LabCon - Lawyerist
• Marketing Conferences: Get outside of legal if you really want to learn marketing. You only get a legal perspective from a legal marketing conference.
  • BEDLAM
  • MozCon
  • Ungagged
  • Inbound
  • Brighton SEO
  • Searchlove
  • State of Search - DFW SEM
  • PubCon
  • Engage - PDX SEM

If you want to learn something, go on the internet. If you also want to meet people, have more engagement, create a referral network- go to a conference.

Ben Sessions joins Kelly Street this week to discuss all things Technical SEO, Local SEO, and Facebook Advertising. 

Ben (The Sessions Law Firm) is an Atlanta-based Criminal Defense attorney who truly enjoys learning and doing great online marketing for his law firm and sees results in clients & cases. 

What is Ben doing for his marketing? 

• Multiple offices; Ben has 3 offices and considers how his local search will be affected by the office location. He avoids coworking spaces for this reason but we do talk about ways to overcome this.
• Technical SEO; This is looking at the backend of your site, instead of focusing on the most beautiful website. 
• Utilize link tracking, like Moz, SEMRush, Ahrefs. This will help you keep track of your links online.
• Learn SEO basics like title tags, and more. This won't take a lot of time and will help you in the long run.
• Choose your website host carefully. Ben chose a proprietary platform, which he now regrets because he feels locked in and isn't getting as much SEO benefit out of his website
• Memberships = Links. For bar associations or any other membership site, capture those links to your profile. This may be the biggest benefit to your membership. 
• Pay attention to your analytics. Head over to your Google Analytics and Google Webmaster Tools accounts, check them regularly and earn the basics for both of these.
• Google My Business! We talk a lot about this but GMB is a great, easy, and free tool that every law firm can easily maximize. 
  • Ben, when it comes to marketing changes & updates: "Do not let that uncertainty make you become stationary... you have to engage in this [marketing]."
• Referrals myth-busting! Ben supposes that referrals are not the main stream of legal clients in 2019.
• Make videos. Ben suggests starting on YouTube before posting to social media because you will most likely not get very much traffic but you will get experience. Also- don't just publish on YouTube.
  • One key takeaway here- experiment! 
  • Comments are actually good for your engagement metrics, so don't be afraid of them, even the negative ones!
• Reviews- Ben doesn't pay for reviews but he does pay attention to anywhere he gets them. 
  • Ben "You may not have time to pay attention to reviews now but somewhere down the line, you will need to and it might be too late."
  • Concerned about a potential client? See if they're leaving negative reviews online for other businesses and beware, especially if you are a lower volume law firm. 
• Paid Social & PPC - Ben has not had great luck managing his own PPC in the past but has found great success with paid Facebook in the short while he has used this method. Ben suggests posting videos and promoting them for engagement.
• Use call tracking and UTM codes to track your marketing efforts!
• Marketing is not set it and forget it!

Melissa Emery is the owner of Emery Law Office in Louisville, KY. She has built a successful practice out of standing up for the little guy, which is fitting because her story is one of defying the odds at every turn.

When starting her own firm a few years ago, Melissa had her team call her former clients to update their address and information. This gave them an 'in' to reconnect and get referrals and permission to market to them via newsletter or email.

Understanding your clients- Melissa knew from her intake that most of her clients don't use email but they do use Facebook. She found this out by asking if they could email accident photos to her and they didn't know their emails but they did have one because they had to in order to create a Facebook account.

Offline Marketing

• Monthly Newsletter - mailer, goes out to past & current clients, referral sources, other lawyers, personal network https://referrals.thenewsletterpro.com/l/MELISSAEMERY/
  • Not focused on law, more of a personal approach
• Phone call check-ins; her great staff helps with this, based on policies and procedures
• Birthday cards; Derby cards

Online Marketing: 

• Videos: Quality videos on your website are great for a one-off, but you can do simpler videos in your marketing. On Instagram stories, type out your audio because people often listen with the sound off.
• Reviews: Learned the hard way that if you get too many reviews in a short period of time, Google will start filtering those reviews. Create a review curation process and teach your staff.

Gyi Tsakalakis has a lot of interests but links are in the top 5. Kelly likes links too but isn't quoted like Gyi is. 

Download our Link-Building Whitepaper!

"meh, links" - The Origin Story

It's great to have structured data, a fast website, and other SEO factors but Gyi proposes that link-building is the number one SEO tool to move the needle on ranking. 

Challenge: If you have pages that are ranking without links, send them our way! 

Link-Building Expertise:

• Link buying; if you pay for content, we do not consider that to be link-buying. We're talking "here's some money, put this link on your site" which Google does not like. 
  • Sponsorships and donations in your local area are typically helpful and not harmful.
• Good links; 
  • Domain authority- don't put all your weight on these numbers. It does matter if the site is topically relevant o your audience.
  • Local links, reputable websites
• Directories;
  • Fill out the free profile but these are NOT high-quality links
  • Paid profiles are typically not going to help for links but could still get you clients because you have a promoted profile.
• Free strategies; 
  • Unlinked Mentions
    • Google Alerts
    • Mention
  • Link Reclamation

This episode of Clienting is with a lawyer and podcasting powerhouse, Morris Lilienthal. 

Mo is a lawyer at Martinson & Beason in Huntsville Alabama. The son of a judicial assistant, Mo is a passionate lawyer, advocate for March of Dimes and a passionate advocate for life & sports in Alabama. 

Podcast: The Mo Show (Live) on FB Live and then YouTube and then podcast - podcasting for 2 1/2 years

We talk about Mo's Podcast process, the equipment he uses (it's easy and inexpensive), how Mo finds guests, and what he does once the podcast/Facebook Live is recorded. 

• What do you do with the podcast once it's recorded?
  • Blogs, links, repurpose content, eNewsletter
• Personal Brand --> pushed through the firm
  • Share your Why?
  • March of Dimes, Family team, 
    • TV Appearances
  • Building an interest base in Alabama
    • Rotary, MADD, sports
      • Trash Pandas
  • Local links/SEO
    • Rocket City Moms

Other shows that you can hear Mo talk about his "Why's" and marketing efforts.

• National President of Mother's Against Drunk Driving:  http://bit.ly/MoShow-MADD-FB

• National President of Rotary International:  http://bit.ly/MoShow-Rotary-MarkMaloney-FB
• Former NFL & Alabama & Auburn FTBL Players Tony Dixon and Courtney Taylor:  http://bit.ly/MoShow-Dixon-Taylor-FB
• Madison Mayor Paul Findley:  http://bit.ly/MoShow-PaulFinley-FB
• UAH Basketball Coach John Shulman: http://bit.ly/MoShow-CoachShulman-FB
• Voice of the Trash Pandas Josh Caray:  http://bit.ly/MoShow-TrashPandas-FB

Kelly Street was joined this week by lawyer Erin Gerstenzang, a trial attorney with a law practice in Atlanta, Georgia. She provides concierge-level service to clients facing drug and alcohol-related offenses. In addition to running her boutique criminal defense law practice in Atlanta, Georgia, Erin Gerstenzang is dedicated to helping other attorneys succeed in their practices. She is a regular speaker at CLE events across the country and helps lawyers understand legal ethics in a technology-enabled world. She also lectures on women mentoring women, design-thinking for law firms, and using social media to build a legal brand.

Erin Gerstanzang has been public speaking since before she had a trial and has legal in her blood as a second generation lawyer in a family full of lawyers. 

Speaking has allowed Erin to introduce herself to new attorneys, gaining referrals and making a national name for herself and her firm. Erin speaks about everything from blood testing and criminal defense issues to women and diversity in the legal practice. Her perspective on public speaking is that it is a reputation builder. You can showcase expertise, being helpful, and teaching other attorneys to do their job better. 

Erin gained traction in legal speaking by discussing legal ethics and has focused recently on social media, including in her talk at Clio 2018 with Kim Bennett. 

Speaking tips: 

1. Don't be boring.
2. Present real tips, information, and advice.
3. Less is more for your slides- your slides shouldn't be your presentation.
4. Don't present sitting down. It's weird. 
5. Show your personality in speaking and in lawyering.
6. Refer to yourself 2-3 times during your presentation, (listen to hear why)

Branding your practice:

• Step outside the lawyer box.
• You'll attract the kind of clients you want if you can create a strong brand.

Improving your public speaking: 

• Get comfortable on the stage by filming your talks and watching them to identify your crutches and fine-tune your talks. 
  • Creative Live - public speaking courses
  • Vanessa Van Edwards - hand gestures
  • Ted Talks - speakers show their hands
• Start off with an embarrassing story to create a connection with the audience, instead of wasting time thanking the audience. The first 30 seconds are vital to your talk.

Watching yourself speak requires an act of kindness. Watch with the understanding that you will develop a tough skin and get better over time. 

Do lawyers only want to hear from lawyers? Kelly says yes, Erin says no. The legal world has a lot of learning and growth to do but is making strides to be open to non-legal experts for noon-legal topics. 

Then Erin shares her thoughts on paying for speakers- to get quality content, legal organizations should consider paying for speakers. You get A-Level speakers when you are willing to pay for it. 

Your ears are not deceiving themselves, Kelly interviews attorney Taymoor Pilehvar without Gyi Tsakalakis in this episode. 

Taymoor Pilehvar is an immigration attorney out of South Florida whose clients are athletes, entertainers, investors, workers, and family members.  He markets his services primarily using social media and engages his audience with methods considered unorthodox in the legal field.

Taymoor moved to Florida specifically to practice immigration.

Taymoor uses Facebook and Instagram primarily to attract clients. Kelly saw one of his posts about working with a sports influencer client and was intrigued by how he is using social media for client development in that particular client niche.

Claudius Vertesi - scooter pro

Is Taymoor getting clients for all of his efforts? Yes! He makes sure to include his Instagram handle on his business cards to passively market to his followers. 

Taymoor had not used social media prior to starting his law firm and learned while starting his firm, that he needed to do free marketing to build an online profile. Early on in his firm, he was living in his office because he couldn't afford an apartment and an office. He worked hard to build an online presence because it was a free way to get clients and he could do it all from his phone. During this time, he drove Lyft until he built up a client base. He actually has worked on a case for a Lyft ride he gave! 

Use likes, shares, and comments to gauge client interest and happiness. 

Certain practice areas can use luxury to intimidate and set expectations for clients, but immigration is typically not one of those. Taymoor lets his personality show in his content for the purpose of breaking down barriers between himself and clients.

Taymoor uses Direct Messages to communicate with potential clients. In Florida, the ethics rules around social media say to apply the rules of email to direct messages. 

Fake followers: Taymoor bought 200 followers or bots, to boost his follower count. Kelly 'caught' it, he owned it and explains why he uses fake followers. 

CALLOUT: Are there any lawyers working on influencer regulations?

His clients come from interpersonal interactions and then he nurtures the relationships through social media. 

Fun fact: Taymoor was featured on Judge Judy, unintentionally, to get money back from bad tenants.  

Gyi Tsakalakis and Kelly Street were joined by Joseph Wilson, an Atlanta-based trial attorney who uses Instagram for client development.

Joseph Wilson is a personal injury trial attorney at JL Wilson Trial Law, and specializes in motor vehicle collision cases, trucking collisions, as well as negligent security cases. 

Joseph started his law firm in January 2018 and as a bootstrapping entrepreneur-attorney, was looking for methods to inexpensively promote his law firm and cases. As a young lawyer, he turned to a method that was familiar to him, Instagram and Facebook.

Joseph was a lead lawyer on the case against the "Rapping Doctor" and utilized the PR from that case to promote his law firm and help find other potential clients who may have been affected.

He takes the approach of educator and shares his knowledge and life on his online social media profiles. He does not use his posts as outright advertisements but as "added value" for his followers and potential clients. He strives to make his posts authentic and engaging for followers, to stand out from what people think about lawyers.

Joseph understands that plaintiff's attorneys may have a bad reputation, so he purposefully shows his family and lifestyle in his profile. This helps potential clients see him as a father, husband, and generally kind, hardworking person, instead of the typical hard-hitting personal injury attorney.

Instagram bio tip: Write out your particular practice areas in your bio, because the general public may not understand what "personal injury" or "trial lawyer" means. Listing out "car accidents, slip-and-fall, medical malpractice" is much more meaningful to non-lawyers.

Where does Joseph find the time to cultivate his online marketing? Priorities. He begins each day with social media marketing and a calendar appointment on Thursdays to post legal tips, PR videos, and more. 

Is Joseph actually getting clients from his efforts on Instagram? Yes! In the last year, 20-25 at least. When he posts verdicts or legal tip posts, he gets Direct Messages from potential clients.

Hashtag use: Joseph uses relevant hashtags and tags his location as Georgia, but finds that pictures and informative captions are more meaningful than specific hashtags.

The JL Wilson website has a feature using "Click to Facetime" that allows potential and current clients to use Facetime instead of face-to-face meetings or consultations and giving another access option.

For his short time in solo practice, Joseph has a great review profile built up online. He encourages clients to leave reviews easily with email links and more. His web design and marketing company, Moxster, aggregated his reviews on his website to make sure potential clients would see their social proof and be assured of his expertise.

Joseph is working on creating a Rolodex of professionals, building a referral network and help other business people, using genuine reciprocity. He cares a lot about the law of reciprocity.

Gyi and Kelly were joined by Aastha Madaan, owner of Madaan Law Firm and Concierge Wills & Trusts, both located in Southern California.

Aastha runs a traditional law firm and a secondary, 100% virtual law firm. She came up with the idea for a completely virtual practice after realizing that the traditional model was inconvenient for a large portion of her clients and that going virtual would make them happier, leading to more referrals and reviews.

She used design-centered thinking to build out and iterate the process of going virtual. Aastha started small with virtual consultations and built her secondary practice from there. Education is the key with this new type of practice-- her clients understand what makes this process and firm different, based on the video on their website homepage. 

1. Empathize - explore and find the pain points for your clients. Aastha surveyed clients to see what they would have liked to be different in the process.
2. Define - Outline the pain points; Aastha's client's pain points were pricing, meeting in person, and where to meet. 
3. Ideate - Come up with options that you could try.
4. Prototype - Implementing the options you can try.
5. Test - testing out your model. This is where you start and go back to step 3 or 4 as you try out additional options and ideas.

How is Aastha finding clients:

• Facebook ads
  • Aastha started by wasting money iterating and learning the process but has developed a working process.
  • Email list didn't create interest, website visit and courses didn't engage, but a short video leading to a webinar created engagement and interest.
• Referrals from all over California
• Referrals from clients in the traditional practice; and their established SEO, Google, Yelp, and online presence.

Setting her firm apart from DIY:

• Lawyers are hesitant about DIY, Legal Zoom, and other services,
• Aastha doesn't feel that she is competing with those services but has to educate clients about her process,
• The more lawyers are practicing virtually, the easier her sales and intake process will become,
• The available tools are replacing menial tasks- not lawyers. "Our value [as lawyers] lies in our knowledge, in our ability to emphasize, and our innate ability to adapt because we are human."
• AI tools will only enhance our practice and our lives.

Cryptocurrency & Estate Planning - a new addition that lawyers in this practice area need to be aware of for their clients. 

Their intake process: 

• Online form fill leads to a questionnaire. This helps their firm understand what the client needs before they get on the phone.
• The results of the questionnaire either lead to a consultation or emails containing the documents they need, rather than a consultation. 

A few other notes: 

• Concierge Wills & Trusts use ZenDesk for website chat and find that both potential clients and current clients engage with it. 
• The model uses technology to support the law firm and lawyers, and firms should begin to automate what can be automated.
• Aastha on Imposter Syndrome: This comes up as hesitation,  nervousness, and a lack of confidence. It takes a lot of work to climb out of the feeling and hearing the stories of others who have felt the same way can help break those feelings down. Validating others good ideas will help bring more good ideas.

Find Aastha on Twitter & Instagram at @madaanlaw, or Facebook as Aastha Madaan. 

Gyi Tsakalakis and Kelly Street were joined by Justie Nicol, owner of Nicol Law Offices, a Criminal Defense Attorney in Fort Collins, Colorado. She is a savvier than average solo attorney who used technology tools to make her practice run smoother and create better work/life balance. 

Justie has even taught a CLE on tech tools as a solo to boost client experience! When you look at the list of tools below and listen, keep in mind that Justie is a regular lawyer who implemented these tools over time, as she saw a need. She starts with a low-cost or free solution

What Justie uses to streamline her firm and client experience:

• Wisestamp for email signature (appt scheduler, tweets, etc)

• Copper CRM
  • Connects with Zapier to her email and more
• Typeform for intake/conflict check
  • Prior to client consultations, have them fill this out.
  • Send a post-consultation form to see why a potential client didn't choose your law firm
  • Send a post-case form to get client feedback for reviews
• Zapier, to connect apps and services
• Acuity for appointments
  • Set expectations with clients so they know when and how appointments should go; filling out a conflict check prior, etc.
  • Consult with everyone who wants one or send them referral sources; just don't let them feel ignored
• Square for payments
  • Easily end to collect payment at the time of engagement
  • Justie includes a credit card charge policy in her engagement letter, so clients know how payments work
• Docusign for document signing
  • Engagement letters, etc.
  • AttorneySync uses PandaDoc for document sharing and signing
• Buffer for social media
• Trello for content management
• Outsourcing marketing efforts
  • Content creation
    • Schedule posts, draft one month at a time
    • Use an attorney or an agency who understands legal ethics
    • Posts for referrals and posts for clients
  • Digital marketing
    • Pay-per-click
      • Cost per click, and customer acquisition cost
    • SEO
      • Monitor ad copy to make sure it complies with your state's ethics rules
  • Website updates and buildout
  • Make sure to track Return On Investment for all marketing efforts; Justie likes to try one new method at a time
• Smith.ai for after-hours receptionist and chatbots for website communication
  • Receptionist service for inbound and outbound calls, filling out the intake form and helping schedule appointments or court reminders for clients.
  • Using a chatbot as an option for communication, even if it isn't something you would want to use.
• Non-tech: Engagement Letters to set client expectations
  • How you will communicate with them and when it is appropriate to contact you
  • Your lawyer-style; aggressive or not?
• Quickbooks for firm accounting methods
  • Manually reimbursing credit card charge fees
  • Square & Quickbooks connections
• Ethics Issues:
  • Engagement letter includes a section about the technology used for information and document security

Contact Justie at justieforjustice@gmail.com or find her on social media: #officedogs

Contact Kelly for more information on Clienting at kelly@attorneysync.com 

Wayne Pollock is the founder and managing attorney of Copo Strategies (www.copostrategies.com), a national legal services and communications firm. 

Wayne helps other attorneys and their clients ethically, strategically, and proactively engage the Court of Public Opinion to help those clients resolve their legal disputes favorably, and to help those attorneys build their practices. 

Serving as a consultant to law firms or as limited scope co-counsel to clients, Wayne's counsel incorporates legal strategy, media strategy, ethics compliance, and defamation avoidance.

How to get your message out in the court of public opinion. The public, your clients, and the media are not digging through court files so how do you get your client's story out of the courtroom? The answer: PR

Ethics of PR:

• Model Rule 1.6- not disclosing case or client information publicly;
• Ethics Opinion 480- must have client permission to publicly reveal any case-related information publicly
• Rule 3.6: Trial Publicity, cannot make statements outside of court that could prejudice a case.
  • (6 months has been ruled as enough time between media coverage and the case for the public to forget about the case). 

Protecting your clients (from themselves). Litigation strategy and PR strategy run parallel to one another. 

PR in the modern era of search engines- how to navigate technology ahead of the law. 

Who needs PR? Criminal Defense, Trial Lawyers, Real Estate, or any other litigator that has or uses public documents. 

How to work with reporters: 

• Create a reporter relationship,
• Connect with reporters and use comments or the media to your advantage
• Greg Siskind's reporter outreach via Twitter
• Help A Reporter Out

PR = phone calls, inquiries. They may not be clients but you can be an advocate for your practice area. Position yourself as an expert in your field and practice area. 

PR + SEO = opinion summaries are a great way to get links, traffic and more. 

Find reporters in your area, likely to cover your practice area. Email them and introduce yourself; who you are, what you do, and how you can help the reporter. 

Lawyers have a PR problem and the public perception is often negative.  

From large law firm lawyering to legal coworking to blockchain lawyer, this week's guest, Yev Muchnik, has a really cool perspective on future-forward law practice. 

Yev makes some great points about how the traditional law practice model isn't working for many attorneys in 2019 and how coworking spaces focused on legal can help solve this issue. 

Ethics of legal coworking: 

• Many state bar associations have decreed that coworking is ethical for lawyers and law firms to do.
• Make sure conference rooms are enclosed and bring your own white or blue noise machine to keep conversations private. 

Blockchain Lawyering:

• Currently focused on securities and corporate law
• 'Smart contracts'

Engaging in a new practice area and becoming the go-to expert: 

• Meetups
• Collaboration & 'distributed lawyering'
• Conferences within that niche
• Speaking engagements
• Facebook groups, Slack channels, etc
  • Stay away from being 'salesy' and focus on providing information or being a resource.

In this practice area and moving into the legal world in general, clients are looking for tech-savvy lawyers. Yev is using security and technology to be an asset for her clients, instead of a burden.

• MyCase, case management software
• HelloSign, to be a remote office
• Signal, a secure phone app for texting and phone calls
• Zoom, for video conferencing with clients

Yev works with Citizn Company which uses smart contracts to help customers become more aware of what they are signing. They discuss the ethics of AI and smart contract readers.

Technology makes us more efficient, accountable, and provide better service for clients. As Yev says, technology = superpowers. Legal consumers are beginning to have expectations that their lawyers will be technologically aware.

Yev's mission of Access To Justice with the Colorado Bar Association and how unbundled services will allow clients better access to legal services. Which means there is also a place in the market for lawyers who are willing to unbundle their services and gain more market share.

Find Yev at Yev@launch-legal.com or her website at techlawstartup.com.

Gyi and Kelly celebrate their first year as podcasters and talk about the trends from last year and what to expect in 2019 as you market your law firm. 

• Flashback to 2018, what we talked about then: 
  • Voice search
  • Mobile-friendly everything
  • GMB updates
  • Visual Search (video results)
  • Changes to Google
    • proximity, hyperlocal
• 2019 Marketing Trends: 
  • AI & intentional advertising (FB/Instagram algorithms)
    • Messenger Ads
    • Video Ads
    • Smarter, targeted content
  • Personalization 
    • More data-driven content
    • Ad copy segmented more to specific groups or interests as a response to Social Media Ad algorithms
    • Chatbots, the digital concierge
      • Disclosing that your chatbot is not a human when people interact with it
  • Voice Search: By 2020, it's expected that 50 percent of all searches will be voice searches, and by 2022, voice commerce sales will reach $40 billion. - Chief Marketer
    • Rand Fishkin Google marketshare article
  • Video
    • It's still a thing and evolving to Instagram and FB TV, and Live videos
    • Video search results: Kelly predicts that Google will start adding video results for non-celebrity searches to the Knowledge Panel in 1-5 years
    • Caption your videos, 85% of videos watched on Facebook are without sound on.
  • Email is making a resurgence
    • Gyi argues that email never went away but we need to change how we use it
    • Keep in touch with former clients by sending birthday or holiday emails
    • Don't spam and look at your email data to make sure people are getting a benefit out of your emails: 
      • open rates, spam reports, etc.
  • Influencer Marketing
    • Are law firms using influencers to market their firms?
    • Mitch Jackson's book got tweeted & retweeted from Gary Vaynerchuk

This episode is all about ethics! Gyi Tskalakis and Kelly Street were joined by Will Hornsby to discuss the challenges legal ethics bring to a solo and small law firm. We also learn how Will became a go-to legal marketing ethics expert. 

After serving as staff counsel in the American Bar Association's Division for Legal Services for 30 years, Will Hornsby now maintains a solo practice that helps lawyers, legal marketers and innovators maximize the potential of their communications and delivery models while understanding and complying with the ethics rules. His practice focuses on working with clients to explore opportunities to expand their marketplaces. Will is also an Illinois disciplinary hearing officer, an adjunct professor at Chicago Kent College of Law and a member of the Board of Directors of the Justice Entrepreneurs Project, a Chicago-based lawyer incubator.

What's it like to go solo, what Will has been up to, and how unbundled services are still an untapped market. 

Delivery of services and the challenges on changing the standard legal services delivery model, as it relates to ethics rules. 

Legal movers & shakers are talking on social media but the conversation needs to move into ethics rules governance. 

Where is 'the line' in legal ethics? It's important to know your particular state rules but not to be frozen by them. Understanding the ethics rules creates an opportunity and allows law firms to know if their marketing is ethical; it doesn't prohibit marketing. 

Marketing can help solve the A2J - access to justice - issue in the marketplace. 

Will's grid: People who don't know they have a problem/People who don't know it is a legal issue. Ex: Kids w/asthma caused by mold & Elderly people in assisted living need pre-nups

Are reviews ethical? Is it ok to ask your clients for reviews?

How to protect your clients online: using social media with legal ethics in mind.

How changes in technology can open up new areas of legal practice. 

Gyi Tsakalakis and Kelly Street were joined by attorney Shreya Ley.

Shreya Ley is half of the lawyer-human duo at the Lay Roots, an asset protection law firm based in Seattle, WA that focuses on estate planning, intellectual property, business law, and more. 

Lay Roots and life-business partners Colin & Shreya carefully thought about what their law practice should look like to work best within their lives and for their ideal clients. 

Colin and Shreya have taken on the mantle of Lawyer-Humans both as a joke and as branding, to separate themselves from lawyers sitting behind mahogany desks in a law library. 

Defining your clients through your marketing, instead of letting your clients define your marketing and firm. Shreya finds inspiration in Seth Godin and his perspective on finding your tribe. As a result, Lay Roots has built longer-term, deeper relationships with clients which have led to more referrals and repeat business. 

Clients through volunteering and personal networking. 

Lay Roots looked at podcasting in a different way- putting short audio clips and conversations into a 5-minute breakdown of what's happening in their heads for that day, instead of getting into legalese. 

Online scheduling tool on their website for clients who know what they want, who they want to work with, and they're ready to get started. 

Lay Roots uses service menus and bundled services for clarity with potential clients. 

Megan Zavieh focuses exclusively on attorney ethics, representing California attorneys facing State Bar disciplinary action and providing tools for lawyers to defend themselves through ethics investigations and prosecutions.  She also provides resources to practicing lawyers to structure their firms to minimize their ethics exposure.  She writes about ethics at CaliforniaStateBarDefense.com and AttorneyatWork.com. Megan is a mother of four, an avid Spartan racer, and a distance runner.  She earned her JD from Boalt Hall of the University of California, graduating Order of the Coif.  She is admitted to the United States Supreme Court, and the state courts and several Federal district courts of California, New York, New Jersey and Georgia.

This episode covers tools for ease in Client Development, getting more out of marketing, making sure your firm is using the right technology, and ethics changes in reform - but where to start?

CONTENT

• Content repurposing; write a blog and turn that into a podcast, then break that down into social media posts.
• Take 3-5 questions people have and turn each one into a blog post, a LinkedIn article, or social media posts and videos.

Technology & Ethics

• What server are you using? 
• How secure is your client data?

Ethics Changes in Reform

• Mental Health Discipline
• Social Media- lawyers are no longer as scared as they have been in the past
  • Transparency in Information - lawyers need to be more transparent in marketing and client interactions becasue the internet can give some of the answers of cause mistrust.

How are you marketing your law firm/services?

• Start implementing: 
  • Content repurposing: content blog to podcast to social media posts in bite-sized form. 
  • Take the top 3-5 questions people have and turn them into blog posts
• Podcast - Lawyers Gone Ethical
• Speaking engagements
• Social Media

Will Hornsby - Attorney At Work - What didn't happen in legal ethics reform in 2019?

For this episode of Clienting, Gyi and Kelly answered marketing questions from former Clienting guests.

Audio questions: 

• Alex Barthet-
  • Blog called the Lien Zone about construction topics- trying to show up on SERP's as the featured snippet. Single best thing to do to appear in the snippets? Should he care about showing up in the snippets? 
    • How? The content should answer a question, must be high-quality (comprehensive, entertaining/engaging, etc), has to be 'the best answer.' 
      • Search for what you want to rank for, see what comes up. Also look at the People Also Ask box
      • Create something better
      • Already showing up in page 1 is a good place to start
      • Keep paragraphs short (40-50 words) and structure the content with bullets, etc.
    • Should you care?
    • https://moz.com/blog/optimize-featured-snippets
• Jared Correia-  
  • Lawyers are flummoxed by social media- can lawyers pick one medium for social media and which one should they choose?  
  • Jared's son, Joe: How do I get other kids to trade me their good pokemon cards for my weak pokemon cards? 
• Jason Beahm-

  • Are there any tricks to running successful PPC campaigns without spending tons of money? For example, I have heard that this can work with long tail keywords, is this true? :)

    • PPC Hero
    • Brad Geddes
    • Kirk Williams - PPC Kirk

  • If you could only recommend one or two kinds of content to create and market, what would that look like? Where to put your energy right now if you feel like maybe this is an area that has been lacking.

Written questions: 

• Sam Glover- 
  • What Yoast SEO plugin settings should I check or change after installing it on a new website? And is the pro version worth paying for?
• Erin Levine- 
  • What platform do you use to build sites for clients? WordPress? Wix? Why?
  • If a client has a limited budget and wants to work with you, what do you suggest that they start with first? Updating website? SM presence?
  • Do your copywriter services including pitching to media? If not, do you have a go to resource to help guide us on that endeavor?
  • When planning marketing services for a particular client, what factors do you consider besides the obvious (budget)? Size of firm? Where the clients are?
  • How are you able to satisfy your taco craving when you live in the mid-west? Is there really any good Mexican food there? 
• Jordan Couch- 
  • What's the best way for attorneys to gather data and measure return on investment in social media marketing? It seems like just measuring social media engagement isn't sufficient since you could have a very active following without any of them converting into clients.
    • Likes, comments shares (vanity metrics)
    • Reach
    • Audience engagement
    • Site traffic
    • Leads generated
    • Sign-ups and conversions
    • Revenue generated
    • downloads
  • Tracking: FB Pixel, UTM parameters
  • https://www.searchenginejournal.com/measure-roi-social-media-efforts/263259/

Gyi Tsakalakis & Kelly Street are joined this week by attorney Rob Schenk to discuss his firm's content marketing strategy and their use of data to understand their audience. 

Rob Schenk is an Atlanta trial lawyer representing families with loved ones who have been severely injured or killed in nursing homes. He is the co-host of the Nursing Home Abuse Podcast, a weekly program providing education on nursing home safety and accountability. 

Keywords, title tags, etc. are a great way to capture potential client questions- as long as you actually answer them!

Know who your 'real' clients are and market to them. 

Marketing a specific practice area to become the 'expert' in your field. As Rob says, "The riches are in the niches!"

Why video vs. just audio? More options for people to engage with the podcast. 

Marketing is a long-term strategy, so create the content and know you will have to build an audience. 

Thinking about starting a podcast? Decide if you have enough time to DIY or enough money to outsource the editing, guest outreach and more.

What Rob uses for Podcast & Video recording: Canon VIXIA HF 200, Hale PR 40's, Beringer Mixer, Adobe Premiere Pro for editing

Rob's trick for video editing? Place an item (he uses a blue flag) in a particular area and move it to another spot for your editor to catch. Then they will know where to spend time editing, instead of watching the entire video. 

Ethics of video podcasting? Add a disclaimer stating that you are not giving legal advice and to contact an attorney for legal advice. Do not reveal any client information, including names or specifics of their unique situation. Does Rob worry about the ethics beyond this? No. The benefits of his video outweigh the risks. 

Listen through to the very last minute for Rob's Las Vegas suggestions!

Gyi and Kelly connected with Kim Bennett on her approach to marketing with a non-traditional law firm model. This episode bridges the gap between business development and marketing, which is how Kim approaches her own business as well as her work with clients. 

K Bennett Law LLC is a boutique trademark, business, and employment law practice providing subscription and on-demand, flat fee virtual general counsel services focused on helping clients protect their brands and grow profitable, sustainable businesses.

Virtual, subscription-based firm. What does that mean, how does one do that? 

Creating a firm with unique differentiators sets you apart but also provides a new type of service level. 

Looking at your client's issue holistically- is this 'bigger' than the issue they are coming to you for? This can build more goodwill with clients and create a longer-term relationship than just a one-time issue. 

Lead nurturing- educating clients far in advance of retaining them as a client. 

Working in a shared space, or coworking space, can help you find the clients that match your practice area. It can also give you access to teach and educate about your knowledge. Kim talks about how she works within ethical bounds while working in a coworking space. 

Gyi and Kelly talk with Chris Gober about his unique practice areas and clientele. 

Most of The Gober Firm's clients come through referrals and PR appearances, which holds interesting challenges for marketing. To help with this, Chris has used TV appearances to become a go-to Republican legal commentator and boost his credentials while reinforcing his brand. 

Chris shares his perspective on Networking vs. Development and how he does both to add different elements to his life and business. 

Chris uses Twitter and social media to share his political perspective and do authority marketing, newsjacking, create authenticity and maintain relevancy. 

Chris Gober is the founder of The Gober Group, a 3-time Inc. 5000 law firm that represents changemaking companies, causes, and influencers across the United States. The firm's clients include dozens of U.S. Senators and Representatives, professional sports franchises and leagues such as the Houston Texans, NBA, and PGA Tour, and disruptive companies and organizations such as DraftKings and the Blockchain Association.

References: Keith Ferazzi, GuestBooker.com, EO- Entrepreneur's Organization

Gyi & Kelly talked with immigration lawyer Greg Siskind about his firm's marketing efforts. Greg launched the first small law firm website by teaching himself HTML coding in the early 1990's. 

Greg shared his process for breaking down legal content for blog posts, social media, and gaining PR. 

Greg wisely points out that legal marketing doesn't have to be for potential clients only, you can target other lawyers, journalists, law schools, and more with your content. 

Advocacy marketing works well for immigration and legislated fields of consumer-facing law. 

Greg Siskind is a founding partner of Siskind Susser and has practiced immigration law since 1990. He writes several books including the annually published LexisNexis J-1 Visa Guidebook, the ABA's Lawyers Guide to Marketing on the Internet, the Physician Immigration Handbook and the I-9 and E-Verify Handbook. In 1994, he created the first immigration law website and in 1998 he created the world's first law blog. He was listed by ABC News as one of the top 20 people to follow on Twitter to keep up with the immigration debate. Greg has written numerous chapters for American Immigration Lawyers Association (AILA) publications, served on dozens of AILA CLE panels and been a member/chair of a number of AILA committees. He served for many years as the chair of the IMG Taskforce and now serves on the AILA Board of Governors.

Gyi & Kelly talk with Erin Levine about how her company, Hello Divorce, uses "freemiums" to build a sales funnel and customer following. While launching Hello Divorce, Erin was re-introduced to the knowledge that marketing from ground zero takes effort, and requires both a process and a plan. 

Erin Levine is the managing attorney of Levine Family Law Group located in Oakland, CA and Founder of "Hello Divorce", a modern break up service,  offering strategic legal help and wellness support.

Authenticity, effort, understanding the buyer's journey, which allows their firm to attract the type of clients they want to work with.

Hello Divorce uses landing pages, social media, partnership content, and sending the content directly to their network. 

About Page quote: "We take the drama out of divorce."

Erin says "You can't look at law in a vacuum... These are people who are in crisis who have the opportunity to make the next chapter of their lives so much better, and happier, and stronger." 

Outside help: have a non-lawyer check your content for jargon or accessible language. Jennifer Heller - Artsy Geek. Used to use Fiverr and Upwork, now has someone on staff to help with graphic design and webinar slides. 

Partnership with Worthy to help clients sell wedding & engagement rings.

Getting earned media by pitching news organizations.

Using targeted Facebook ads to get webinar attendees. 

Weekly emails, segmented by user group, on a topic of importance to the group. 

Resources: Amy Porterfield podcast is a great resource, Lawyerist podcast, look for resources outside of the legal field. 

Erin has an ethics attorney on retainer and carefully tracks California's marketing and advertising ethics rules. 

Big idea: Creating your services around what people actually want.

Find Erin on @erinlevine, or @hellodivorce 

She is happy to have lawyers sign up for their newsletters and learn what Hello Divorce is doing so successfully. 

Gyi & Kelly wanted to discuss voice search and the pitfalls, how to improve your ability to rank in voice search, and future-proof your online presence by ranking in voice search.

They go through what voice search is and isn't, the history of voice search, and the potential future of voice search. 

STAT Search Analytics- how to win the featured snippet

Who is using voice search? 39% of millennials, 17% of Gen X, and 10% of Baby Boomers.

Voice search results are due to good SEO: schema, structured data markup, long-tail keywords, research queries, links, simply written content, consistent business information

What gets people a featured snippet? Once you figure that out- do it on your own website.

Google Developer Documentation & Actions

Gyi & Kelly are thrilled to chat with a veteran lawyer this week who went from corporate lawyer to solo practitioner 25 years into his career. 10 years later, he has a thriving practice and loves his job. 

Thomas R. Fox-the Compliance Evangelist

Tom is the author 16 books on business leadership, compliance and ethics and corporate governance, including the international best-sellers "Lessons Learned on Compliance and Ethics" and "Best Practices Under the FCPA and Bribery Act" as well as his series Fox on Compliance. His latest book "The Compliance Handbook" was published in May 2018 and was the No. 1 new bestseller on Amazon.com through its initial run. He writes and speaks across the globe on compliance programs.
Tom leads the social media discussion on compliance with his award-winning blog, The FCPA Compliance and Ethics Blog and is the founder of the Compliance Podcast Network.

Tom's policy: Give away your 'secret sauce', because it will create more trust than lose you money.  

Twitter: Retweet your community to become a niche influencer. Set alerts on specific 

Blog: Create, create, create! Get on a realistic content creation schedule and stick to it, rain or shine.

Podcast: Turn your posts or ideas into 

Webinars: Content can get recirculated and repurposed into multiple forms of content (blog post, podcast episode, shorten video into clips)

Social Media: Tom's daughter set up his business Facebook page!

Tom built a worldwide practice from his home office, from 0 clients to a thriving solo practice. 

Francine McKenna's advice: Focus on a niche and stick with it for 6-12 months. 

• It's about the people and not necessarily your practice. Share employees, clients, and telling stories. 
• Instagram & Facebook for developing your brand and help recruit employees that fit your culture.
• Janine talks about how NextChapter does newsletters, beyond the normal articles or webinar signups. 
• Facebook ads take time to learn but try them for $10 per day and see what happens. Play around with targeting to find your ideal audience by occupation, interests, and more. Use Facebook pixel to track and retarget website visitors.
• Twitter for law firms- how are people using it in 2018? 
• Social media marketing is more than putting stuff out there- you have to have a strategy or goal in mind, whether it is brand awareness or getting more clients.

For episode 18 of Clienting, Keith Lee joins Gyi Tsakalakis and Kelly Street to talk about how lawyers can use online networking to build their practice and referral network. 

Keith is a lawyer and author. He is the founder of lawyersmack.com, the leading private community for lawyers. He also has a blue check on Twitter which means he's officially important/obnoxious.

Lawyers are Salespeople:

• Finders, Minders, and Grinders
• Lawyer-to-Lawyer Sales

Being yourself and authentic online

• Boosting your transparency online to appeal to younger clients.
• Don't hide behind a username (or your business suit) and just be yourself.
• Do not be afraid to take a stance on issues related to your practice area or the law. 
• Find your audience by identifying the people you don't want to work with.
• Create content in your own voice.

Connecting with other lawyers:

• Being vulnerable with other lawyers to connect over job difficulties.
• Supporting other lawyers through difficult times.

Where are lawyers online?

• LawyerSmack
• Reddit: r/law
• Twitter
• Blogs: Use Feedly to find blogs you may like
• Associate's Mind Resource Directory
• Bloomberg's BigLaw Business
• Jurist.org (Univ of Pittsburgh Law School)

Find Keith on Twitter, LawyerSmack or email: keith@lawyersmack.com

Marco Brown is the lead attorney at Brown Law, a Utah Family Law Firm focusing on providing affordable, flat-rate divorce services. Marco is a husband, father, and divorce attorney in Salt Lake City, Utah. Nothing makes him happier than cooking, eating, and traveling, except maybe reading.

This episode focuses on capturing the low-hanging fruit of more money without necessarily spending money.

We talk about creating a flywheel - the cyclical process of client experience.

As a small business owner, Marco also shares how he has been able to find and have money to market his firm AND learn how to attract the clients that his law firm wants to serve.

• Automation- what can you automate to help create less friction and more money.
• Following Marco's rules:
  
  • Setting up systems, especially payment.
  • Fire your worst client this week. Get rid of that person, you will make more money.
  • Specialization in one area of the law.

Marco's technology to use:

• Google suite,
• Clio,
• Scheduling,
• Zapier

Gyi Tsakalakis and Kelly Street have the pleasure of speaking with Patrick Palace about how his firm, Palace Law, uses data to have better client development and marketing. 

What are they doing? 

• Created a custom PNC (Potential New Client) sheet to identify good potential clients. They partnered with Suffolk Law School and David Calaruso to figure out who their ideal client and cases are
• Using PatBot to give clients access to their case potential
• How you can increase access to justice (and get more clients) by offering information and breaking down barriers
• What watching your data can do- hint: increase the bottom line
• Building out a team of non-lawyers to help the business grow
• Marketing and business development must be a priority, in addition to practicing law

Try Patrick's wine! Sunken Cellars

SEO: We know it stands for Search Engine Optimization, but what does it mean and how do you do it successfully? This episode has a little bit for legal SEO beginners, intermediates and beyond.

• What is SEO?
• Do you need to know how to code for SEO?
• Why does link-building matter/what are links?
• Local SEO vs. Traditional SEO
  • How to do local SEO w/multiple offices
• Should you buy links?
• How many keywords should I use on my pages?
• Why do you need ALT tags on images?
• SEO Goals
• Should you hire someone to help with SEO?
• How much does SEO cost?

References:

• How To Use HTML
• How much does SEO cost? - see slides on post
• Do you need to hire an SEO?

Gyi & Kelly talk with Jordan Couch of Palace Law about how values inform their marketing and client development. 

Jordan L. Couch is an attorney and Cultural Ambassador at Palace Law where his practice focuses on plaintiff's side workers' compensation and personal injury litigation. Outside of his practice Jordan is heavily involved in state, local, and national bar associations, advocating for a better, more client-centric future to the legal profession. Find him on social media @jordanlcouch or email jordan@palacelaw.com.

This episode covers: 

- How to integrate core values in work life so they become part of your firm's client interactions. 

- How to talk to clients about your values.

- Using your company values on social media. Palace Law's Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook for examples.

- Thinking creatively to provide benefits to your clients, like Palace Law's case calculator.

- Value of the month to ingrain each one in daily work life.

- Encouraging and recognizing when a firm employee displays the firm values.

- Transparency and teamwork to benefit the entire team AND clients.

- Advertising as your authentic self, which gives potential clients the opportunity to see who you are and connect with you. 

Gyi & Kelly were joined by Marshall Lichty to discuss how his role at a text messaging startup can work for lawyers and how he has learned to market law firms through trial and error.

We covered:

• expectation setting
• developing guidelines
• cautionary tales for lawyer texting
• onboarding for communication
• how law firms need to focus more on sales and marketing

To learn more about Marshall and Lawyerist, go to http://go.lawyerist.com/clienting14. Connect with Marshall on LinkedIn and Twitter.

Marshall is the Editor in Chief at Lawyerist.com, the Chief Growth Officer and General Counsel at GroundSource.co, and a former owner, lawyer, and COO of a boutique business law firm in Minneapolis.

He helps Lawyerist build its tribe of small-firm and solo lawyers building sustainable law practices focused on client-centric services, future-oriented technology, profit-oriented business models, and access to justice.

He focuses on growing clients, revenue, and systems for GroundSource, helping deliver its mobile-messaging platform to brands looking for intimate, two-way discussions with their communities, clients, and stakeholders.

On this episode of Clienting, hosts Gyi Tsakalakis and Kelly Street were joined by attorney Jason Beahm. 

We discussed how Jason is carving out a niche within his practice based on his own personal passion for music festivals. Jason co-hosts The Festival Lawyer podcast, practices criminal defense, personal injury, and DUI law in California. In addition to podcasting and content marketing tips, Jason shared his views on getting positive online reviews.

Jason's bio:

Out on bail. Out of jail. Music is the holy grail. 

On episode 12 of Clienting, Gyi Tsakalakis and Kelly Street were joined by Alex Barthet, a Miami Construction Lawyer with a growing practice that focuses on marketing via content and referrals to get clients. Alex shares his 9 tips for legal marketing based on 10 years of marketing mistakes his firm made before they got things right. 

Here are Alex's 9 tips:

1. Claim your online profiles

Claim and complete profiles on Google, Yelp, and Avvo. (All of these platforms have the potential to be highly visible when people search your firm.) Don't forget the pictures.

 2. Get online reviews

Work hard to get online reviews on all of these platforms from friends, clients, and colleagues. Having reviews will immediately separate you from 98% of your competition who probably have no reviews. Think about it, when you Google a service you need, which of the businesses that pop up are you going to use: the one with no reviews, or the one with good reviews?  Google "Miami construction lawyer" and see how we stack up. 

3. Do not move on before completing steps one and two

Only when you finish the above, work on the rest.

4. Start blogging and create resource sites

Either on your site or on a separate site, start blogging to your potential clients. Make sure your site is mobile-first.  You don't need anything complicated—simple is better.  You need to blog at least once a week to even be in the game. If you are not going to be consistent, don't waste your time. We blog weekly at www.TheLienZone.com and www.ContractorConflicts.com. 

Not interested in blogging, then maybe a resource site is your thing. We created two resource sites, www.MiamiConstructionForum.com, and www.ConstructionLawyersAlliance.org.  These are hubs for other marketing and networking we do.  They are not as good as the blogs, but they help support our overall marketing strategy.

5. Use video and keep it short

You can get fancy by shooting videos that you then transcribe for blog posts (we use www.rev.com). You can also use the audio for podcasts (https://www.thelienzone.com/podcast/). That's three uses for the same content—not bad.

We shoot videos with a camera, mic, lighting, and background setup that cost, in total, about $800 from Amazon. Your face and the content sells, not the fancy graphics in post-production that cost a fortune.  And keep it short.  Our videos range from 3 to 7 minutes. And they are very actionable – they ask and answer a very specific question.  Can you say long-tail keywords?

6. Focus on solving the client's problems

No one cares about you, so don't talk about you.  All they care about is how to solve their problem, so talk about that.  We keep track of the questions clients ask and answer them weekly on our videos.  How easy – we don't even come up with the questions we answer!

7. Use pay-per-click (PPC) carefully

PPC is okay and we have used it. If you do use it, keep it hyper-focused on your area of law in your county. Use lots of negative keywords to exclude results you don't want and avoid wasted clicks. For example, we don't do anything with "accidents" or "injuries", so we blocked those words. 

8. Claim your social profiles

Claim all the available social profiles for you and your business even if you won't use them right away. We use LinkedIn primarily (https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexbarthet/), then Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/thelienzone/) and Twitter (https://twitter.com/thelienzone).

We don't do much on Facebook or other platforms. Only use networks you are going to check daily. Linking these networks to my phone has made them easier to keep track of.

Actively post on each network (we post two to three times a day) and engage folks online by calling them out by their profile names. We use a service called Buffer (https://bufferapp.com/) to make posting to multiple networks easier: We queue up about two or three weeks of posts and it drips them out on each network three times a day.

9. Be very careful with paid profiles

In my opinion, paid profiles are a waste. Claim what they have that is free, but divert what you'd spend on paid profiles to PPC on Google.

On this episode of Clienting, Gyi Tsakalakis and Kelly Street talk with Julie Tolek about how you can create a memorable and unique brand for your law firm. 

We talked about: 

• Using different cards for different clients, based on your practice area or the type of client.
• Examples of good branding: Think Pink Law, Bye-Bye DWI
• Upwork or 99 Designs for logo and branding work on a budget
  • Make sure you discuss expectations and have clear guidelines for any designer.
• How to think of and do branding? (the total experience of having a relationship with you):
  • Crafting your logo and colors
  • Identify yourself/your firm/your practice areas/etc
  • Creating a tagline
  • Feedback from people outside your firm
  • What qualities do you want to exude
• Based branding on:
  • Passion
  • Personality 
  • Persuasion

https://www.amazon.com/Talk-Like-TED-Public-Speaking-Secrets/dp/1250041120

Connect with Julie: https://twitter.com/legallyblondbos, https://www.instagram.com/ketolawyer.thinkpinklaw/, https://www.thinkpinklaw.com/

On this episode of Clienting, Gyi and Kelly are joined by Nicole Abboud, a new-age content marketing expert, and owner of Abboud Media. She hosts her own great podcast as well, Leaders Love Company, where you can learn more about leading a company and creating a great work life. 

We talked about:

• How videos are not advertisements. The new way to think about a video is in the form of problem-solving. Video is no longer about you, it's about the client. 
• Tips: be in a place where you feel comfortable and won't be interrupted, share 1-2 tips, have a plan for what you'll say, share a story or statistics, ask people to share your video, create compelling content that is shareable
• What to use for videos: tripod, have a plan, schedule the videos, use your smartphone, make sure you consider lighting (try to be near a window for natural light or buy a selfie light)
• Where to put videos: Go where your audience is, which has become everywhere! Also, Youtube, the 2nd largest search engine. Consider the place you prefer to be, which one do you like: Instagram, Youtube, Twitter, Facebook?

Mentions:

• Jim Hacking - immigration attorney, uses video and photos for great client testimonials. 
• Mitch Jackson- streaming.lawyer, a lawyer using social media and video to its' fullest potential and is seeing the results in the form of clients.
• Bryan Wilson- the Texas Law Hawk, created viral videos to get more clients and brand himself. He's not afraid of mocking himself or law in order to break barriers between lawyer/clients.
• BombBomb email video to send videos as emails and make more of a connection.

Find Nicole on Instagram: nic_abboud or nicole@nicoleabboud.com

For this episode of Clienting, Gyi and Kelly talk about how you can reach a new set of potential clients by expanding your network and building new opportunities. The conversation is broken down into new lawyer marketing and tips for more established practices. 

They discuss how you can use LinkedIn and their Slideshares, creating Youtube videos where you discuss legal changes, and building out your network with professional groups.

For specifics, the conversation includes: creating a 90-day plan to focus on, account-based marketing tips, how to utilize a co-working space, and making sure you follow-up with leads by organizing them into a CRM (Customer Relationship Management System).  

In this episode, Gyi and Kelly talk with Jared Correia of Red Cave Law Firm Consulting about Using Technology to Build Your Client Journey. We had a great time and got into some really great discussions on how to improve your intake process and use social media in a more effective and time efficient way. 

We discussed: 

• What is the Client Journey (or Quest)? 
• Optimizing your intake process and make sure to create multiple contact opportunities with potential and current clients.
• Stay in touch with your clients, follow up every 6 weeks, even after the case is closed. 
• Develop and use templates or follow-up strategy. Write it down and perfect it before you set up automation in your CRM or practice management software. 
• An email drip campaign can be very effective in maintaining a connection to potential clients. 
• Automate your social media posts using Hootsuite, Raven tools, Tweet deck or others.
• Look into Zapier plugins that can connect your CRM or practice management software with your website intake forms or chatbots.

Josh Gerben is a trademark attorney and founder of Gerben Law Firm, PLLC. The law firm was created by Mr. Gerben to help small and large businesses alike have access to trademark lawyers who are affordable and responsive to their needs.

Mr. Gerben represents a wide range of clients, ranging from small start-up businesses to large multinational corporations. Since beginning his practice, Mr. Gerben has represented clients in over 4,000 trademark matters.

What to ask a marketing agency:

• What budget is necessary and is needed to move the needle and get results. Without understanding what the time and budget investment are, honestly, you may not spend enough or get results?
• What kind of work will the agency do? Content, on-site work, types and amount of link-building (and links are super important),
• Monitor your agency and make sure you get reports on the things that are important to your law firm's growth.

LinkedIn

• Great for building a network and increasing visibility in your field.
• Haven't gotten clients as of yet but Josh is working on getting there!

Direct Mail

• Josh and Gerben Law have tried to incorporate direct mailer boxes to increase their network but those haven't panned out thus far.

Positioning yourself against commoditized legal services.

Try not to sell the unsellable.

• Competing with LegalZoom, quality and pricing, managing pressure on fees

Using this aspect to get referrals, speaking engagements, create a public image and PR

Josh has been featured on Fox News, NPR, New York Times, Wall Street Journal - how are those things happening? 

• Leads that go unresponded to and why- practical daily business
• Understanding who your clients are and how to attract them
• Selling to someone who isn't going to buy- how to manage this when feeling 'desperate'
  • Templates for responses?

• Offer alternatives to in-person appointments
• Try online appointment making options

Utilize Social Media, but Don't Be "Weird"

• Be weird if you are, but in an authentic way and not in a forceful, selling way
• Use the app how site how it's meant to be used: Snapchat for short, casual videos, Facebook for longer posts, Twitter for quick informative snippets or sharing links to interesting things, Instagram for images and a short explanation.
• Connect with influencers, but only those that make sense for your industry and practice area. Also, try to keep this local by following or connecting with local organizations and people who can be a good resource for you

Know Your Brand

• Be able to tell the story of your law firm's "why?" Younger consumers want to know if there's a reason why you practice the area of law you do or a reason you became a lawyer.
• Younger consumers want to see what's happening in your office and know the reality of what it's like to work with you.

Segment Your Marketing

• Generation Z: They want to make sure you won't 'categorize' them, based on gender or race. They grew up with easy access to technology and expect ads or contacts to feel familiar. They are highly critical of big business and are less trusting of sources.
• Young Millennials: They are trying to pave a new path outside of parental or societal expectations. Story and sourcing are vital to know whether or not they will spend money on a particular business. These people are also known as the 'Fear of Missing Out' Generation, which means that they do not want to miss out on experiences or knowledge.
• Older Millennials: 1 in 4 older Millennials are parents, which means that they are starting to need or have needed legal services for years. They need to know 'why' they should use a lawyer, instead of solving the issue themselves or with an online resource. Lastly, they find value in loyalty programs and build trust in companies, which results in referrals and longer-term usage.

Own Your Pages

• Google My Business is an essential part of this equation. If you haven't already read Gyi's article on GMB for Law Firms, do it now. Make sure to follow his suggestions for your GMB page and then you'll be in great shape.
• Make sure all information (business name, phone number, address) are accurate on the following sites: Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Yelp, Twitter, and Google+. If you don't have pages on any of these, don't worry about them unless you can spend time building those profiles.

They Will Do Research

• Millennials prefer to do their own research and see if they are able to solve the problem without engaging a professional.
• Reviews and referrals matter greatly to them. The caveat here? Reviews stop being relevant to Millennials after one to three months. Additionally, Millennials are more likely to write you a review, if asked.
• Don't assume they'll sign on as a client at the initial meeting or phone call. Younger generations often want to meet with multiple lawyers before deciding to work with one. These are people who are more likely to care about your communication style and personality matching their own.

Why Should You Try to Get Millennial Clients?

We've all heard about how selfish these younger generations can be and how high maintenance they are. That may or may not be true, (I am inclined to frame it as having expectation of clarity, transparency, and communication), but no matter your current thoughts on Millennials, given that 25% of the US population falls into this generation, you are going to need to get Millennial clients to stay in business. Not only will you get Millennial clients if you make a few changes to your marketing and intake, but you will also get a more vocal and loyal type of clients. If you've been wondering how to get more millennial clients or just want to know if your current marketing efforts will attract a younger generation of clients, we can help you figure that out. Give us a call at 877-671-8260, send an email to kelly@attorneysync.com or fill out this form.

Show References: Adam Singer's Millennial Post another article on Millennial marketing Dwayne Forrester of Yext's discussion on the "Pyramid of Corporate Responsibility" Psychographic Segmentation Social Proof  Millennial Marketing Facts 

In this episode, Gyi and Kelly talk with Sam Glover about the Lawyerist Small Firm Scorecard and how you can use it to boost your law firm's marketing and client development practices. Take the scorecard and see how your firm grades! We covered website basics, inexpensive marketing tools, authenticity and more. 

Episode tagline: "No one wants you to run up to them and shove your business card in their face." - Sam Glover

Mentions: 

- Billie Tarascio and her Lawyerist episode on Intake

- Hubspot

- Mail Chimp

- Google Analytics

- "Don't Make Me Think" by Steve Krug

In this episode, Gyi and Kelly talk with David Bitton about how to automate your law firm for a streamlined client experience and boosting your marketing. 

David announced his book, "The Secrets to Marketing and Automating Your Firm" and shared that he will be giving away copies at Techshow 2018. 

How to start your own firm: 

- Get an EIN number for free online

- Use Quickbooks and invest in Practice management software as soon as you can afford to. 

- Try working remote and hold off on paying for office space or try a coworking space instead. 

Automation tips: 

- Automate your intake forms, agreements and invoicing process for a smoother client experience and removing this from your time.

Marketing tips: 

- Make sure your phone number is easily seen and accessed on your website.

- Try a live chat or chatbot service, so clients can reach someone quickly

- Claim your listings online

- Blog regularly and often, with relatable topics

- Try automating your marketing with Hubspot, Active Campaign, Agile CRM, Zapier plugins, Google Forms, or Infusion Soft

- Step up your email marketing with Mail Chimp. Monitor your open rate, click-through rate, and unsubscribe rate. A/B test subject lines and in-email content for click rates. 

VISIT US AT TECHSHOW:

Stop by Practice Panther's booth for their free book giveaway!

Stop by AttorneySync's booth (#1010) for a free competitive analysis or website assessment!

• Principles of Service

1. Friendly
2. Connected
3. Prepared
4. Consistent
5. Efficient
6. Adaptive

• Four Seasons Service Initialism

1. Smile
2. Eye contact
3. Recognize
4. Voice
5. Informed
6. Clean
7. Everyone

• What can lawyers do to improve right now?

1. Smile
2. Name usage, including during phone calls
3. Systematize routine interactions 
4. Empower your employees 
   1. Not "how are we doing?", but "what can we do better?" and "what are we doing well?"
5. Ask your clients.