Government spends more money than any other business or sector. It is one of the most powerful levers we have to tackle the great challenges of our time, to shape markets and improve communities. Yet it is broken. But it doesn't have to be. Join Lina Svensburg, Marcela Jabor and myself as we dig into the exciting world of procurement and the innovations that are transforming how government spends its money. In this first episode, meet my two co-hosts, what drove them to procurement and what our goals and aspirations are for this podcast.

In this episode, I sit down with Tamara Zakharia to explore insights from her recent report from the UN on the enabling conditions for public sector innovation in emerging economies. We dive into her practical and thoughtful framework—covering everything from strategic direction and governance models to the internal and external enablers that help innovation take root and thrive. Whether you're working in government, policy, or global development, this is essential listening for anyone trying to support change in complex contexts. Read the full report here: https://publicadministration.desa.un.org/projects/strengthening-national-capacities-design-and-implement-public-sector-innovation-strategy

🎥 Subscribe for more interviews on public sector innovation.

🚨 Major Update Alert! 🇬🇧 The UK just dropped its biggest digital government announcement in over a decade! Dive into this four-part series to understand what happened and why it matters. 🎥 In this first episode, I dissect the "State of Digital Government" report, a brutally honest look at the current state. I'll guide you through the crucial insights and lay the foundation for the UK's ambitious digital trajectory. 🔜 Up next: Video 2: https://youtu.be/5wIWUlRSayw Video 3: https://youtu.be/4PYzlqfzdDk Video 4: https://youtu.be/M4b7kWbN5O8 🔔 Subscribe for my videos exploring public sector innovation in the UK and around the world. 📚 Essential Reads:

Report - State of digital government review (https://shorturl.at/GlHxx) Report - A blueprint for modern digital government (https://shorturl.at/wW4Sn)

Video - A blueprint for modern digital government ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugvrHtn2STQ&t=0s)

Report - Revolution not Evolution (https://shorturl.at/luRuF) 

In this podcast, I share my thoughts on the most important trends from 2024 that are impacting public service. I'll also share my top picks for the must-read books and must-listen podcasts for public servants around the globe. To cap it off, I discuss the critical developments I'm keeping an eye on for 2025 that could shape our work in the public sector. Don't miss out on these insights to stay informed and at the front edge of our field!

For my final dispatch from Samarkand, I reunite with Caroline Star from the School of International Futures — this time in the breathtaking Registan Square. We reflect on a week full of inspiration, connection, and big ideas at the UN Public Service Forum. Caroline shares highlights from her foresight workshop, and we both take a moment to appreciate the powerful closing talk by Robyn Bennett that left many of us deeply moved. It’s a fitting end to a beautiful week in a city full of history and hope for the future of public service.

✨ Watch Robyn’s talk here: https://www.youtube.com/live/jI3Gq77GmrI

✨ Subscribe for more Civic Punks dispatches and future adventures in government innovation.

In this special dispatch from Samarkand, I’m joined by Almero Oosthuizen from the Western Cape Government (South Africa) and Alejandra Rodas Gaiter from the Innovation Lab for Bogotá (Colombia). Together, we reflect on our experience speaking at the closing plenary panel: Innovation Labs in Action. We dive into some big themes:

🧠 Shifting mindsets inside government

🌱 Moving from ego-centric to eco-centric innovation

🏛️ Why real change needs structures that go beyond the lab

It’s honest, hopeful, and a little bit punk — a fitting wrap to an incredible forum.

✨ Hit subscribe for more behind-the-scenes dispatches from the world of public sector innovation!

As we wrap up an incredible few days in Samarkand, I sit down with the brilliant Robyn Bennett, whose closing repertoire reflection was a highlight for many at the forum. In this conversation, Robyn shares the key themes, big ideas, and quiet moments that stood out — from innovation and inclusion to the unexpected connections that made this gathering so memorable. It’s a thoughtful close to a week full of learning, laughter, and global public service energy.

✨ Watch Robyn’s full talk here: https://www.youtube.com/live/jI3Gq77GmrI ✨

Subscribe for more Civic Punks dispatches and behind-the-scenes conversations.

What happens when a country treats employment as a public good, not just a market outcome? In this episode of Something Cool—a CivicPunks series that spotlights bold thinkers reshaping the public sector—I sit down with Kate Phillip, Program Lead for South Africa's Presidential Employment Stimulus Program, one of the most ambitious public employment programs in the world. South Africa is facing a deep unemployment crisis. But instead of leaving it solely to the market, Kate and her team asked a radical question: What if government took direct responsibility for creating meaningful work? The result? A nation-scale initiative that’s not only creating jobs—but reshaping how we think about state capacity, dignity, and development. We talk about:

• How the program came to be—and why the President got involved
• What it takes to build something like this within government
• The principles behind “creating work that serves the public good”
• Lessons for other countries grappling with unemployment or precarious work

Kate’s work challenges the status quo—and offers a blueprint for governments around the world.

“Employment is too important to leave just to the market.” — Kate Phillip

🎧 Listen in. Be inspired. Learn how public servants are building better futures.

Another dispatch from the Creative Bureaucracy Festival—this time from the official podcast studio in Berlin! I sit down with Dr. Louis Klein, head of the International Federation for Systems Research, for a wide-ranging conversation that spans continents and big ideas. We talk about his work supporting education reform in Morocco, the growing breakdown of trust in public systems, and why systems thinking matters more than ever. It’s also Louis’s first time at the Festival—so we dig into his impressions, the energy of the community, and what gives him hope for the future of bureaucracy done better. A rich and thoughtful conversation from the heart of Berlin.

In this episode of Civic Punks at the Creative Bureaucracy Festival, I sit down in the festival's "official" podcast studio with Mikko Annala from Demos Helsinki. We discuss the bold work that Mikko and his team are doing to reimagine how institutions operate in the 21st century—from building new governance models to driving systems-level change. We dig into his partnership with Apolitical, The Transition Collective, and TIAL to create a global community on Reimagining Public Institutions. We also take a moment to reflect on the evolution of the Festival itself—and Mikko shares his hopes for what comes next for the public sector, and for the community of changemakers growing around it. If you care about the future of government, this one’s for you.

🎥 Subscribe for more from the frontlines of Creative Bureaucracy.

In this episode from my time at the Creative Bureaucracy Festival, I sit down with Dr. Alex Ryan to unpack some of the key insights from the recent gathering of the States of Change Network. Alex shares three powerful tensions the group explored—tensions that could shape how we respond to the unravelling of key systems in our society. From the future of democracy to the role of institutions, this conversation is a thought-provoking look at what comes next and how changemakers can navigate complexity with care and courage. This one’s for anyone thinking deeply about public sector innovation, systems change, and the kind of leadership the future demands. 🎧 Subscribe for more conversations from the frontlines of Creative Bureaucracy.

Join me in this first episode of my series exploring why Canada has slipped from 3rd to 47th in the UN E-Government rankings. I sit down with Viet Vu, co-author of the DAIS Report, "Byte-Sized Progress: Assessing Digital Transformation in the Government of Canada." Access the full report here: http://bit.ly/4hlUlQh Note: The report initially referenced Canada's 2023 ranking at 46th. By 2024, the ranking had further declined to 47th.

What happens when you take away the agenda, the speakers, and the carefully curated programme—and just let public servants talk?

In this episode, I dive into UKGovCamp, one of the most unusual—and surprisingly effective—events in the world of public service. It’s an unconference: no preset sessions, no keynotes, and no guarantees, other than the fact that you’ll end up in thoughtful, sometimes messy, often brilliant conversations with people who care deeply about making government work better.

UKGovCamp is chaotic by design. But it’s also incredibly well-orchestrated—and that tension is exactly what makes it work.

I’m joined by James Cattell, one of the key people behind UKGovCamp, to unpack how this model came to be, why it’s lasted, and what it gets right that more traditional conferences often miss. We talk about trust, curiosity, community, and why creating the right conditions matters more than controlling outcomes.

If you’re interested in better ways of bringing public servants together—and what this could mean for the future of government—this conversation is for you.

There is so much exciting stuff happening in New Brunswick when it comes to public sector innovation! In November I had the chance to attend the Canadian Open Data and GovMaker Summit in Fredericton and interview many of the attendees. This episode includes a collection of those interviews from the summit floor. It starts though with the pregame show I recorded with fellow Nerdy Gov Podcaster and founder of GovMaker Nick Scott as well as our interview with Vanessa Paesani the Executive Director, Pond-Deshpande Centre, host of this years summit.

Before the lights go up at Government Innovation Week, let’s talk about what actually matters.

In this pre-game show, I’m joined by Joy Chatwell from the Public Sector Network to pull back the curtain on how Government Innovation Week (Federal, Ottawa 2026) was designed, what themes are shaping the agenda, and why this moment feels significant for the Canadian public sector.

If you’re attending, this episode will help you dial in on the storylines worth tracking, the tensions to watch, and the conversations that could quietly shape what happens next. If you’re not there in person, this gives you the context you need to follow the coverage I’ll be producing from the conference floor.

We’re talking: • The big themes emerging in Canadian public sector reform • Where innovation is gaining traction, and where it’s stuck • Why this week matters in the broader transformation story • What to listen for in keynotes, panels, and hallway conversations

Think of this as your field guide before the doors open.

More on the event: https://publicsectornetwork.com/events/government-innovation-week-federal-ottawa-2026/

Let’s get ready.

This is the question Becky Miller asks in her blog series that made waves in the UK this fall. This is my short reflection on this series and why I think everyone should read it. Don't take my word for it. Check out the series here: https://medium.com/ghs-government-human-service/introducing-ghs-780df7abd537

2024 was a global reckoning. Across countries and political divides, voters sent the same message: government isn’t working — and it needs to change.

But change to what?

In this launch episode of Civic Punks, Derek Alton explores one of the most important questions of our time: what does better government actually look like — and who is building it?

For 17 years, Derek has worked inside and alongside governments. Now he’s traveling the world to meet the people quietly reshaping the system from within — the reformers, builders, and “Civic Punks” who refuse to accept the status quo and are working to make government fit for the future.

This podcast dives into the ideas, experiments, failures, and breakthroughs shaping the next era of public service — in formats that are accessible, human, and real.

If you care about climate, housing, healthcare, AI, inequality — you care about government.

Let’s go behind the scenes and see who’s building what comes next.

What if government were your new best friend? A companion who walked with you and made your life easier and better. Anticipating your needs and pointing you towards supports and opportunities, not to sell you things but to help you with your own goals. Helping launch my new series - Now You Know, an exploration into the debates and ideas shaping the future of government - is the reflection from one of my nerdy gov heroes Sir Geoff Mulgan. In his peice, "Can Government be a Companion?" Geoff explores four examples where government could be a kick-ass companion: 1) Health, 2) Skills and Jobs, 3) Money, 4) Your Local Community. Read the whole article here: https://geoffmulgan.substack.com/p/the-companion-state

Public Sector Network’s Digital Leadership Day for the Government of Canada is officially in the books. So what happens when you put 100+ senior public servants and partners in a room and ask one deceptively simple question: What does digital leadership actually look like in Canada right now? You get sharp debates. Honest reflections. A few uncomfortable truths. And, thankfully, a lot of practical ideas. I pulled together some of my takeaways, along with reflections from others, from Day 1 of Government Innovation Week. If you care about where the Canadian public service is headed in a world of AI, sovereignty questions, and rising expectations… it’s worth a look.

What idea has shaped your work for decades?

For Ryan Androsoff, it’s Wiki Government by Beth Noveck.

In this conversation, Ryan shares how that book continues to influence his thinking on digital government, collaboration, and reform in Canada.

Some ideas don’t just inspire you.

They rewire you.

Hiring is one of the things government seems to suck at. It takes way too long, the salaries are often not competitive, and job descriptions are confusing and not helpful. Yet, if we can't hire well, we are unable to bring in the talent we need to deliver on our ambition, or really anything. In this video, I explore a book chapter by Robert Gordon, Executive Vice President for State Initiatives, exploring some experiments in fixing hiring in government. You can read the full report here: https://www.statesforum.org/january-book/government-hiring/

Another Public Sector Network - Government Innovation Week is in the books. What did we learn? How is digital sovereignty shaping the conversation? We are going through some of the deepest cuts to public sector jobs in well over a decade. AI was all over the agenda but how did the conversations play out?  In this episode I explore these questions through interviews with people on the ground in day two and my own in depth analysis.

I recently came across Rebecca Mbaya’s African Innovators series, which spotlights changemakers reshaping Africa’s tech, data, and AI landscape. It’s thoughtful, grounded, and well worth your time. In this video, I zoom in on her profile of Pombili Paula Haitamba, a data analyst from Namibia. It’s genuinely one of the best pieces I’ve read on what data analysis actually means in practice, not just the technical side, but the human and political dimensions too. I was so impressed that I immediately sent it to my old graduate supervisor and suggested he add it to his data analysis course reading list. Take a look, watch the video, and let me know what you think. Here is the article: https://reamby.substack.com/p/pombili-paula-haitamba-on-the-work And Rebecca Mbaya's substack: https://reamby.substack.com/

Hi everyone, what an amazing evening to launch the dream that is Civic Punks. My friend Mike was kind enough to record the speech I gave, and I wanted to share it here. Thank you everyone who came to support this project!

Gian Durán shares a key insight from his PhD research in this week's Now You Know. He argues that we are not using the term innovation properly. When we say innovation, we mean one of three things: Rennovation, Innovation or Transformation.

You can read his full article here: https://futuregovforum.substack.com/p/change-is-plural-and-that-should

In another episode of Rent Free—the series where I ask people which ideas live rent free in their heads—I sit down with Charles Mcivor to talk about the article that has most shaped his thinking: “The Housing Theory of Everything.”

Written by John Myers, Sam Bowman, and Ben Southwood, the piece explores how housing affordability quietly shapes everything from economic growth to inequality to politics.

It’s one of those ideas that, once you see it, you start noticing it everywhere.

You can read the article here: https://worksinprogress.co/issue/the-housing-theory-of-everything/

Charles also writes a fantastic daily newsletter on innovation: https://innovationinthenews.substack.com/

Government today is full of tensions. Move fast… but protect democratic accountability. Experiment with new ideas… but keep critical systems stable. Use powerful new technologies… that we don’t fully understand yet. In a fascinating paper called “Signals from Apolitical Day,” the States of Change network looked for patterns emerging from conversations with public servants around the world. What they found was a picture of governments operating under seven powerful forces — speed, complexity, emotional pressure, politicisation, conflict, identity shifts, and rising expectations. But the most interesting insight wasn’t the forces themselves. It was the tensions public servants are navigating every day. In this podcast I break down the key ideas from the paper and explore what they reveal about the moment governments are in right now. If you care about public service, policy, or how governments adapt to a rapidly changing world, this is a conversation worth having. In this podcast • The 7 forces reshaping government today • Why the speed of change is outpacing the reflexes of government • How complex problems are pushing institutions into new territory • The emotional weight many public servants are carrying right now • Why innovation in government is really about navigating tensions • The emerging capabilities governments need to operate in uncertainty • Why institutions may need to learn and adapt in real time Read the original article Signals from Apolitical Day — States of Change 👉 https://states-of-change.org/stories/signals-from-apolitical-day-2025

AI is dramatically challenging governments all over the world. Singapore is on the leading edge of this. How are they thinking about AI in Government? What can we learn from them? I reference this fantastic podcast by Ezra Klein on AI, definitely check it out as well: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6obzprTBpR6MosWu5vsua5?si=44ede13d15054d71

I am finally starting to wrap my head around my time in Singapore. It was a week jam-packed full of conversations with people at the centre of reimaging government, and also those who are rebelling against government and building something different on the fringes. There will be more to come, but here are my earliest thoughts.

Have we broken innovation? This is a question that Ian Montgomery explores in his killer article "The New Rules of Innovation." In it Ian explores how we have let innovation become swallowed up by the system and in the process, have it lose its transformational potential. Join me as I go down the rabbit hole with this banger of a Montgomery article. Here is the link if you want to read it yourself: https://nowornevermoments.substack.com/p/the-new-rules-of-innovation-goodbye

There’s a tension at the heart of government that we don’t talk about enough.

On the front lines, everything feels urgent. You’re dealing with real people, real problems, right now. You see what’s broken. You feel the pressure to act.

Then there’s the center. The place where resources sit. Where decisions get made. Where the stakes are bigger, the scale is wider… but the urgency isn’t always there in the same way.

And when these two worlds collide? That’s where things start to break down.

My friend Almero Oosthuizen who is living both worlds, as an Emergency Doctor and as an Innovation Specialist for the Department of Health in the Western Cape of South Africa.

Together, we explore that friction: why the frontline often feels ignored, why the center moves more slowly than it should, and why both sides are actually right (and wrong).

If we’re serious about making government work better, we need to understand this tension, not just complain about it.

Curious how others are experiencing this where you are. Drop a comment and let me know.

We might be starting to see the future of government take shape… and I’m not sure we’re ready for it.

In this video, I unpack Ukraine’s latest roadmap on the Agentic State — one of the first real attempts to move from theory to practice when it comes to AI in government.

This builds directly on my recent conversation with Manuel Kilian, where we explored the idea of the Agentic State. But this time, the question is different:

👉 What does this actually look like when a government tries to build it?

We get into:

• What the Agentic State actually is
• The three types of agents Ukraine is building (public-facing, internal, compliance)
• The underlying architecture — shared infrastructure, orchestration, and data layers
• Why this is about more than just AI tools — it’s a shift in how government operates
• And some of the big, uncomfortable questions this raises for public servants

I’ve been sitting with this one for a bit. There’s something real here — but also a lot we don’t fully understand yet.

▶️ My interview with Manuel Kilian on the Agentic State: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSg96u2aDUc

▶️ Explaining “Rules as Code” (and why it matters): https://www.instagram.com/p/DWvshluEhjB/

This isn’t just about technology.

It’s about what happens when AI becomes part of how government actually runs — how decisions get made, how services are delivered, and where accountability sits.

If you’re a public servant (or care about how government works), this is a conversation worth paying attention to.

I make videos exploring how government works — and how it could work better.

If you’re into public sector innovation, digital government, or just trying to make sense of where things are going…

👉 consider subscribing and following along

Are we actually ready for something like this?

Or does this still feel a bit too far off?

Victoria is at a turning point. Before Government Innovation Week begins, here’s what actually matters: the forces shaping the agenda and what to watch for. Featuring Ross Ashman (PSN Co-Founder) on why this moment matters.

Pia Andrews is one of my all-time favourite Civic Punks, so I jumped at the chance to sit down with her and hear what 3 articles have most shaped her thinking:

• Death Sentence by Don Watson: https://www.penguin.com.au/books/death-sentence-9780143790983
• Tim O'Reilly - Government as a Platform: https://shorturl.at/A8zxG
•  

Last week I was in Melbourne for the Public Sector Network Government Innovation Week. I’ve got a full series linked below from the trip, so check those out if you want the full picture. But there’s one idea in particular that’s been stuck in my head ever since. After the conference, I broke out of the usual crowd and spent an evening with a small, eclectic group of civic punks. Less stage, more conversation. Less polished, more real. We dug into what a more local, grassroots approach to government could actually look like. Then I hopped over to Wellington for a packed couple of days. But here’s the thing I can’t shake: It feels like we’ve lost a step since the pandemic. The people who carried the civic punk movement for the last decade are tired. Some are burning out. And the next generation isn’t quite plugging in the way you’d expect. So we’re in this strange in-between moment. An interregnum. The old energy that powered the movement has faded… but the new energy hasn’t fully formed yet. Which raises a bigger question: What comes next for civic punks—and for the future of government? Government Innovation Week Series: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGbB6ETwppLppBLlMQNSedbBEy9sMqHVk

I finally had a chance to sit down and process last week’s Public Sector Network Government Innovation Week in Melbourne… and there’s a lot that’s still rattling around in my head. From Minister Danny Pearson’s take on the “middle path” for AI, to the growing sense that Agentic AI is about to change the game (for better and worse), this week felt like a glimpse into where government is heading next. So I pulled together a quick post-game reflection to make sense of it all — what stood out, what matters, and what I’ll be watching closely from here. If you care about where government + tech is going, this one’s worth a watch.

I recently had the chance to spend a couple of days with one of my favourite Civic Punks, the author and public servant Amber Guette in Wellington, New Zealand.

We talked about what public service means to her and what inspired her to write her well-known book: Dear Minister - Letters From a Public Servant. She also gave a sneak peek into her next book that she is currently writing. You can learn more about the book here: https://www.dearminister.net/

Have you heard about Agentic AI? If not, you will, it is shaping to be the next major frontier for AI. What is it? How can we be ready for it? These are the questions I posted to Manuel Kilian, the author of the highly influential white paper: The Agentic State. Read it here: https://agenticstate.org/

For this week's Rent Free, I sat down with Brenton Caffin, the founder of States of Change, to learn more about the book that has most shaped his thinking.

He chose "Reimagining Organizations" by Frederic Laloux and shared how he has worked to apply its principles in both States of Change and Government.

I’m on a bit of a mission right now: find government projects that actually worked. Not theory but Real impact. And in Adelaide, I think I found one.

The Thinkers in Residence program did something pretty unusual… it brought in some of the world’s leading thinkers to work directly with government and help tackle big challenges. I sat down with Brenton Caffin, who saw it up close, to dig into what made it work (and what didn’t). Honestly, this is one of those ideas that sticks with you.

Right now, it feels like we are in a moment focused on austerity. Governments everywhere are cutting their workforce, but is there a danger with this? Nick Scott thinks so. In his recent article, "Why Budget Cuts Without Resource Reallocation Rarely Transforms Systems" he argues that when cuts are rushed or made across the board we end up not with more efficient government but with crappy government. But he also has a solution, invest in reforming the pipes of government. Read the full article here: https://www.shiftflow.ca/ideas/budget-cuts-rarely-transform-systems

Darwin, Adelaide and Sydney are now in the books. Lots of great conversations with super-inspiring Civic Punks. What is sitting with me? Temples, Cuts and Farmer! What does that mean? You will need to watch to find out.

I think we’re still designing policy for a world that doesn’t exist anymore. Last week I was in Canberra for the OpenFisca and Policy Innovation Conference, right after Government Innovation Week in Melbourne. Two very different conferences… and honestly, it felt like they were talking about two completely different realities. At OpenFisca, the conversation went deeper. Less about “what’s new” More about “why isn’t this working?” This video is my attempt to make sense of that. In it, I explore:

• Why policy isn’t really a product anymore (it’s something you’re constantly managing)
• How tools like Rules as Code, digital twins, and synthetic data are starting to change the game 
• Why government might be losing its own institutional memory and the question I can’t shake: as AI becomes more central… what do we choose to keep human?

It feels like we’re in an in-between moment. The old way isn’t holding up. The new way isn’t fully formed. And we’re kind of stitching it together as we go. Curious how this is showing up where you are.

Roger Watson has been one of the leading voices shaping the practice of design in government in Australia — as a practitioner, teacher, author, and long-time champion of better public services.

I sat down with Roger in Sydney to talk about how he found his way into this work, the personal experiences that shaped his interest in government design, and why he believes the field needs to evolve.

We also dig into the idea of Design Thinking 3 — what comes next after earlier waves of design practice — and some of the ideas behind his upcoming book, including the conditions needed to create truly innovative spaces: labs, temples, podiums, and academies.

It is a thoughtful conversation about design, government, innovation, and the spaces we need to build if we want public institutions to think and act differently.

There’s a lot of pressure right now to be more efficient, more effective, and somehow keep up with a steady stream of new tools—especially AI. In this conversation, I sit down with Michael Baskin, Chief Innovation Officer for Montgomery County, to talk about how he actually approaches that challenge in his work and life.

This isn’t just a conversation about tools. It’s about process, judgment, and the underlying philosophy Michael uses to get the best out of himself without losing what makes his work human. He moves fast, and there’s a lot of wisdom packed in here for anyone trying to work smarter, stay grounded, and figure out what real effectiveness looks like right now.

Derek sits down with Shannon Salter, Head of the Public Service for the Government of British Columbia, to explore BC’s vision for redesigning government around life events instead of programs and departments. They talk about what that shift really means, how you make it real inside a large public system, and what it takes to work across silos and levels of government.

This is part of a series I’m calling Rent Free. The idea is simple. I ask people about a concept that’s living rent-free in their head. Something that’s shaping how they see the world and how they show up in their work. This time, I sat down with my good friend, and someone who consistently inspires me, Almero Oosthuizen. For Almero, what is living rent-free is the quote: “I participate, therefore I am.” Originally from Mugendi Kanampiu M’RITHAA, it’s a reframe on the African philosophy of ubuntu. We like to think we are our values. Our beliefs. The things we say we care about. But if you look at it honestly…you are what you participate in. Where you spend your time. What you contribute to. How you show up. So the real question becomes: Am I actually participating in the things I say matter? Or just talking about them?

Public sector innovation was supposed to help government change.

But what happens when innovation becomes part of the system it was meant to challenge?

In this conversation, I sit down with Nicholas Gruen, a longtime voice in public sector innovation, to talk about why the field may have lost some of its edge. We get into perpetual pilots, reform work that never quite lands, and the strange way innovation can become another layer of process rather than a force for real change.

We also talk about one of Nicholas’s bigger ideas: the gap between the systems world and the life-world. Systems help us see patterns, scale, and structure. But when they drift too far from real human experience, things start to go sideways.

This one is a thoughtful, slightly uncomfortable conversation about change, institutions, and what it takes to keep reform connected to real life.

What if one of the problems in government is that we keep using the wrong pattern for the work in front of us?

In this conversation, I sit down with Suhit Anantula to explore his framework of Lines, Loops, and Vibes. Vibes are about instinct, intuition, and sensing what is emerging. Loops are about iteration, experimentation, feedback, and learning by doing. Lines are about structure, process, and scaling what has become clear.

The fun part is applying this to government. When should public servants trust a vibe? When does a problem need a loop? And when is it finally ready to become a line?

We also wander into reflexes, innovation, public service learning, Peter Drucker, and the strange joy of just jamming on ideas with someone who is thinking deeply about how organizations actually work.

Curious to hear what you think: where is government stuck in a line when it probably needs a loop?