Doing great work isn’t enough to generate referrals.
In fact, relying on that alone might be exactly what’s holding you back.🤨

In this episode of Breaking Biz Dev, Mark and John take a diagnostic approach to one of the most powerful yet underutilized growth strategies in professional services: referrals 

Drawing from real-world coaching experience, they uncover why so many professionals fail to generate referrals despite strong networks and satisfied clients. From vague asks and inconsistent effort to fear of rejection and lack of process, the breakdown often isn’t the relationships—it’s the system behind them.

You’ll learn:

• How to identify the warning signs of a broken referral process 
• Why most firms don’t treat referrals as a true lead generation channel 
• The difference between passive and proactive referrals 
• How mindset, timing, and clarity impact your success 
• Practical steps to build a repeatable referral process starting today 

If referrals make up a small (or nonexistent) portion of your pipeline, this episode will help you rethink your approach and take control of a high-impact growth channel.

Start turning trust into opportunity.

Subscribe for weekly conversations on business development, growth strategy, and modern professional services leadership.

CHAPTERS
00:00 Why Referrals Get Missed
00:43 Show Intro and Listener Shoutout
02:49 Referral Process Reality Check
05:42 Common Referral Mistakes
08:09 Symptoms Your Process Is Broken
11:34 Root Cause No Process
12:19 Root Cause Unclear Ask
16:22 Root Cause Timing and Mindset
20:06 Tracking and Attribution Gaps
23:26 Rethinking Referrals Push and Pull
24:57 Action Steps Start Your List
28:20 Wrap Up and Next Episode


Link to A Referral Process Episode: https://youtu.be/zGNXNNoi2vc

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

In this episode of Breaking Biz Dev, John and Mark go deep into the mechanics of three option pricing tables—how to actually build and present them in professional services.

They walk through several practical frameworks for structuring options, including levels of involvement, entree engagements, compensation models, and payment structures. Along the way, they unpack the pros, cons, and real-world tradeoffs of each approach.

The conversation also dives into decision psychology—why multiple smaller decisions are easier than one big one, how anchoring works, and why the “middle option” isn’t always the recommended path.

On the tactical side, they cover how to name your options, design tables for clarity, and clearly communicate what’s included (and excluded). They also emphasize the importance of presenting these options live in conversation rather than sending them over email.

The episode wraps with a powerful insight: when done right, these tables shift the dynamic—clients stop resisting and start collaborating, often leaning in to shape the solution themselves.

If you’re looking to make your pricing conversations more effective, structured, and client-centered, this episode delivers a practical blueprint.

CHAPTERS
00:00 Recap and Setup
01:58 Why Tables Work
02:43 Level of Involvement
03:34 Pros and Cons
05:43 Entree Engagement
08:07 Decision Psychology
10:33 Entree Tradeoffs
12:18 Compensation Options
14:48 Risk and Incentives
16:26 Compensation Risk Tradeoffs
18:04 Payment Options Framework
19:11 Upfront Versus End Payment
20:17 Risk And Cashflow Realities
21:59 Name Your Three Options
24:24 Show Inclusions And Exclusions
25:34 Design For Fast Decisions
27:57 Present Live Not Email
29:29 Anchoring The Price Order
30:18 Value Based Options And Practice
31:55 The Magical Client Lean In
33:04 Wrap Up And Next Time

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Everyone knows trust is the currency of professional services—but most firms are trying to earn it in the slowest way possible: one lunch/coffee/zoom chat at a time. 

In this episode, John and Mark break down how to scale trust using the Trust Equation, parasocial relationships, and modern content channels that build credibility, reliability, and intimacy long before a prospect ever speaks to you. If you want more pipeline without doubling your lunch budget, this one’s for you.

Special guest appearance from Melina Palmer, host of The Brainy Business podcast, with perspective on parasocial relationships.

00:00 Welcome
01:20 Trust
02:48 The Trust Equation
10:00 Parasocial Relationship
14:24 Reaction to Melina
21:49 Next Steps
22:15 Organize Your Thoughts
23:05 Find a Vehicle For Your Authentic Voice
25:23 Build A Habit Of Creating And Publishing
26:59 Expand Beyond Your Core Channel
28:35 Social Evidence
30:54 Engage With Your Audience In Scalable Ways

Connect with Melina on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melinapalmer/
Connect with Mark on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markhwainwright/
Connect with John on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johntyreman/

Learn more about the Trust Equation from Trusted Advisor Associates: https://trustedadvisor.com/

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Most consultants say they’re “too busy doing the work” — as if that’s a badge of honor. But here’s the uncomfortable truth: you never stop to ask “are we still doing the right work?” 

In this episode, John and Mark break down the concept of the engagement meeting; a deliberate, structured conversation designed not to move a project forward, but to make sure everyone is aligned with its direction. It’s where you zoom out, recalibrate priorities, and turn reactive “fire drills” into proactive strategy. In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Why most client relationships fall apart between meetings, not during them
• How to use engagement meetings to surface red flags before they become infernos
• The subtle difference between being a vendor who delivers and a partner who steers
• How this simple practice can increase client retention, expand accounts, and raise your lifetime value per client

If you’ve ever felt like a client relationship is fine but something’s off, this episode will show you how to fix it before your client ghosts you for the next shiny firm.

CHAPTERS:
00:00 Welcome
01:46 Listener Feedback Survey
02:24 Engagement Meeting
04:13 Being Proactive Instead Of Reactive
08:01  Meeting Regularity
09:19 Have A General Set Agenda
11:30 Balancing The Scorecard
12:55 Ideal Meeting Length
15:12 Practical Tips
20:03 Next Steps?
21:36 When To Introduce The Concept
23:36 How Many Participants?
24:20 Conclusion

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Saying yes feels good. It’s helpful, it’s human—and it’s how your firm quietly bleeds to death. 😵

In this episode, John and Mark dive into the real power of saying NO: qualifying hard, protecting your pipeline, and choosing clients and marketing efforts that actually move your firm forward. Plus, they explore the cognitive traps (hello, sunk cost fallacy and FOMO) that keep you from doing it.

00:00 Introduction
02:06 Welcome
03:21 Qualification
08:16 Cognitive Biases
10:48 FOMO
14:25 No Keeps The Buyer's Interest In Mind
15:31 Saying 'No' To The Wrong Types Of Clients
22:36 People Over Projects
27:38 Saying No To Marketing Overload
34:27 Wrap Up

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Your CRM is haunted. Not by ghosts...but by cold leads, stalled proposals, and “maybe next quarter” conversations that never saw the light of day. In this episode, John and Mark take you on a guided tour of the Pipeline Graveyard—where dead deals lurk, and second chances await.

Despite the Halloween theme, this one’s evergreen. Because let’s be honest: deals go dark year-round. We’ll show you how to diagnose the truly dead, spot signs of life, and—when the timing’s right—resurrect opportunities without looking desperate.

It’s part sales therapy, part post-mortem, and part playbook for turning silence into closed-won. So grab your flashlight and a shovel. We’re digging in.

CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction
00:48 Welcome
01:16 Introduction
02:57 Common Causes of Deals Failing
06:29 Diagnosis
11:17 Signs There Is Still Life In The Deal
13:27 New Information
15:03 Reflection
18:19 How To Raise The Dead
24:50 Digging In The Graveyard
34:43 Segmenting

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Go ahead, put all of BD on the shoulders of your most expensive asset. What could possible go wrong? 

In this episode, John and Mark explore the pros and cons of partner involvement in business development. They look at the benefits and drawbacks of a firm partner's role in both marketing and sales. Identify actionable strategies for helping your firm's partners engage in the right kind of business development efforts.

CHAPTERS
00:00 Welcome + Listener shoutouts
03:18 Episode Rundown
04:49 Marketing and Sales Continuum
05:16 Pros of Partner Involvement in Marketing
08:39 Cons of Partner Involvement in Marketing
13:12 Pros of Partner Involvement in Sales
18:01 Cons of Partner Involvement in Sales
27:31 What Good Look Like
30:33 Rapid Fire: Who's the Bottleneck?
35:16 Takeaways and Conclusion

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

"You can make more friends in two months by becoming interested in other people than you can in two years by trying to get other people interested in you." - Dale Carnegie

In this episode, Mark and John explore the importance of understanding clients better than they understand themselves. The conversation focuses on how actively listening to understand client needs can transform your business success, highlighting key concepts such as the empathy gap, the empathy map, and how this level of understanding serves as a significant competitive advantage. 

Want actionable advice on how to understand your clients better? Listen to this episode today and jot down some notes!

CHAPTERS:
00:00 Introduction
01:20 Two Years of Breaking BizDev
02:41 Episode Rundown
03:38 THE Empathy Gap
11:20 The Empathy Map
15:11 Competitive Advantage
19:19 Competitive Insulation
20:36 Learn What Matters to Your Clients
27:26 Create Feedback Loops
32:31 How to Turn Empathy Into Action

The Empathy Map: https://www.interaction-design.org/literature/article/empathy-map-why-and-how-to-use-it

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Before you pitch slap that prospect, listen to this episode.

John and Mark tear down some terrible 'pitch slaps' from their LinkedIn DMs and offer a better way to approach social media. Shift your social media marketing from spammy sales tactics to authentic relationship-building. Listen to this episode to learn more.

CHAPTERS:
00:00 Welcome
00:59 Origins of the Pitch Slap
03:20 Social Selling
10:47 Pitch Slap Examples
19:50 A Different Way to Do Social Selling
30:48 Connect Instead of Create
35:54 Final Thoughts

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

What kind of buyer did you talk to on your last sales call?

When it comes to buying professional services, there is usually more than one buyer. Some refer to this as a 'buying committee.' So what different roles do each of these buyers play? How should you engage them? What should you watch out for? These are the kind of questions that John Tyreman and Mark Wainwright will answer in this episode of Breaking BizDev. 

CHAPTERS:
00:00 Intro
03:00 The Buying Committee
04:32 The Three Different Buyer Roles
05:17 The Visionary
08:28 The Operator
13:32 The Risk Mitigator
16:54 Stories and Examples
28:24 How to Take Action
34:08 Summary

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Why expand existing accounts when you can chase new logos forever? 😵‍💫

On this episode, John and Mark break down the concept of 'account expansion' — growing revenue from existing client accounts:

• The difference between upsell and cross-sell
• 3 common mistakes firms make in account expansion
• Identifying key decision-makers and organizational triggers
• The importance of curiosity in building trust in relationships
• How to frame your services in the context of what the client values

CHAPTERS:
00:00 Introduction 
02:37 Benefits of Upsell and Cross-Sell
05:30 Cross-Sell vs Upsell: What's the Difference?
10:39 Common Mistakes in Upsell and Cross-Sell
20:10 Effective Strategies for Upsell and Cross-Sell
26:39 Building Client Relationships
30:52 Embedding Yourself in Client Organizations
36:35 The Role of Trust in Client Success
38:54 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

#businessdevelopment #salesdevelopment #sales #professionalservices #marketing #podcast

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

For consulting firms that have exhausted their network and the referral well has run dry, a digital marketing strategy is essential to attract new clients. But how?

In this episode, Mark and John walk through a step-by-step framework perfect for experts and firms who need to reach a broader audience to generate new business opportunities. This doesn’t mean you need to become a well-known celebrity or go ‘viral’ at a Coldplay concert. Instead, build visibility within a tight, focused slice of the market. Become well-known to the people who actually value your services.

CHAPTERS:
00:00 Intro & Welcome
03:13 Overarching Themes
07:08 Research Your Buyers
12:17 Create a Lead Generation Framework
16:06 Source content from a podcast
17:47 Optimize ALL your content (not just web pages)
19:44 Use LinkedIn
21:37 Weekly email newsletter
24:35 Create and Continually Refresh Evergreen Content
27:12 Create a Measurement Plan
30:36 Conclusion & Final Thoughts

Read the full article from John: https://www.redcedarmarketing.com/blog/digital-marketing-strategy-for-consulting-firms

Past episodes mentioned:

• Free vs Paid Offers: Crafting an Effective Lead Generation Strategy
• Don’t Boil the Ocean: The Paradox of Focus, Specialization, and Positioning

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Most professional services firms present prospects with a single proposal and hope it sticks.

But the best firms structure their pricing differently.

In this episode of Breaking BizDev, John Tyreman introduces a powerful concept used across industries—from SaaS to consulting to consumer products: the three-option pricing table.

Why three?

Because the way options are presented dramatically shapes how buyers make decisions. A single option invites hesitation. Too many options create confusion. But three options strike a powerful balance—helping buyers quickly understand value, compare outcomes, and confidently choose.

In Part I: The Power of Three, John explores the psychology behind structured choice and explains why three options consistently outperform traditional proposal formats.

You’ll learn:

• The behavioral science behind structured choice
• Why three options guide better buying decisions
• How option pricing reframes conversations around value instead of cost
• Why this simple structure can increase both close rates and project size

This episode is the first in a series on option pricing for professional services firms.

If you're an expert doer-seller, consultant, or firm owner, this framework can fundamentally change the way you position and price your work.

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Professional Services. It's in the name. If you're in professional services, you're in the business of SERVING clients.

On this episode of Breaking BizDev, John and Mark take a look at the transformative power of adopting a client-centric mindset in marketing and sales activities. Listen to this episode and you'll hear:

• From selling to serving—an overview of the core mindset shift
• Where firms get it wrong
• What a client success mindset looks like in practice
• How to build the culture that supports it
• What this unlocks for firm growth

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

*Trust* is what wins new business in professional services...but your ideal clients can't trust you if they don't *like* you, and they can't like you if they don't *know* about you. 

On this episode of Breaking BizDev, John and Mark break down "the mere exposure effect," also referred to as the "familiarity bias" and how firms and experts can take advantage of this cognitive bias and leverage psychology in their business development strategies. 

This episode also features guest voices from Ryan Paul Gibson, founder of Content Lift, and Melina Palmer, CEO and host of The Brainy Business.

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Say goodbye to feast and famine. In this episode of Breaking BizDev, John Tyreman and Mark Wainwright tackle the elusive concept of monthly recurring revenue (MRR) for professional services firms. 

Tired of the roller coaster of income highs and lows? We unpack why MRR isn't just for SaaS companies and how your firm can apply it to smooth out those wild fluctuations in revenue. Along the way, we discuss the sneaky benefits for both you and your clients, and provide some realistic, not-so-pie-in-the-sky ways to get started. In this episode, you'll learn:

• Why MRR models make sense in professional services
• How does a MRR model work in professional services?
• Why you should avoid the 'Big Number'
• Why does a fixed monthly fee feel unnatural for consultants?
• One small step toward taking action today

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

In this episode of Breaking BizDev, John and Mark dive into the complexities of business development within the accounting industry, like the steep challenges of differentiation, pricing models, and the annual scramble leading up to tax day.

John shares his extensive experience with accounting firms and highlights insights gathered from the 2025 Association for Accounting Marketing (AAM) Summit Conference in Phoenix, AZ. The episode features quick interviews with sales and marketing professionals at the conference, who shared their perspectives on the most pressing issues in business development—ranging from the friction between marketing and sales to the misalignment of partner involvement. 

Tune in for a dynamic conversation rich with expert opinions and actionable advice, all aimed at breaking down what's broken in the accounting industry's approach to business development.

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Welcome back to another episode of Breaking BizDev. Join hosts John Tyreman and Mark Wainwright as they dive into why proposals often fail and what you can do to improve them. From the self-diagnosis of client's needs to the common mistakes in crafting and submitting proposals, this episode provides actionable insights and tips. 

Whether you're a seasoned professional or new to business development, this snarky yet insightful episode will help you navigate the fraught process of proposal creation to improve your chances of winning bids and avoiding these common traps:

• Trap #1 - You respond to RFPs you shouldn't
• Trap #2 - You don't take time to understand the client
• Trap #3 - Your proposal looks like a brochure
• Trap #4 - You give the client one price option
• Trap #5 - You submit the proposal without a conversation
• Trap #6 - You blow the in-person interview

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Lead generation is a major challenge for many professional services firms. In this episode of Breaking Biz Dev, Mark and John break down possibly the most critical element of lead generation: your offer strategy. What value are you offering? And what’s the call to action? In this episode, you’ll hear:

• The roles of free vs paid offers in lead generation
• How these offers work together in your marketing program
• How to measure the performance of each kind of offer
• Various cognitive biases that influence offer acceptance
• Examples of calls to action (CTAs) for free vs paid offers

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

In this episode of Breaking Biz Dev, John and Mark take the Rainmaker model out to the alley for a well-deserved beatdown, highlight three (really) bad reasons to hire a rainmaker. In this episode, you’ll hear:

• What is a ‘Rainmaker’ anyway?
• Various ways firms organize their sales functions
• How buyers evaluate professional services firms
• Really bad reason #1 - you don’t know how to sell
• Really bad reason #2 - you need a deal closer
• Really bad reason #3 - you want to grow faster

Read Mark’s full blog post: https://www.wainwrightinsight.com/3-really-bad-reasons-to-hire-a-rainmaker/

Show notes:

• Inside the Buyer’s Brain Executive Summary: https://hingemarketing.com/library/article/inside-the-buyers-brain-fourth-edition-executive-summary
• SMPS + Stambaugh Ness Report: AEC BD 2024 Report: https://www.stambaughness.com/publication/aec-bd-building-business-development-success-report/

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Proper planning prevents poor performance. Say that 10 times fast.

In this episode, John and Mark break down the elements of an effective sales call plan, sharing insights from real-world experiences and highlighting the importance in driving better business outcomes. They walk through the crucial elements that make up an effective call plan and emphasize the significance of preparation, especially for those new to sales conversations. In this conversation, you’ll hear:

• The components of a sales call plan and why planning prevents poor performance.
• How setting a clear objective for the call enhances focus and direction.
• The role of thorough research in understanding client needs and anticipating questions.
• Why a concise agenda keeps the conversation aligned and productive.
• The art of telling a compelling client success story

Read the blog post from Mark and download the Sales Call Planning template: https://www.wainwrightinsight.com/creating-a-sales-call-plan/

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Send us your feedback in this 3-min survey and help shape the future of Breaking BizDev.

Is there a topic you want us to cover? 
Are there different segments or formats we should consider?
What’s your preferred way to listen?
Let us know!

In this short bonus episode, John and Mark share some early feedback from the listener survey, and how you can participate and help steer the conversation. 

Take the survey as you listen to the episode. Why not?

Share your feedback here:https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Turn your firm into a trusted and respected leader in your niche.

In this episode, John and Mark explore how firms can not only effectively differentiate against competitors, but actually how to apply that differentiation in their marketing and sales activities. In this conversation, we cover:

• The nuanced differences between focus, specialization, and positioning
• Reasons why firms should embrace specialization
• How to identify the right area of specialization
• How to align your specialization with long-term goals for sustained success

Real-world examples of firms with focus, specialization and excellent positioning:

• TBSP (tablespoon) — accounting solutions specifically for restaurants: https://tbsp.com/
• Driving Transactions — M&A advisory services specifically for chauffeured transportation companies: https://www.drivingtransactions.com/
• Jaffe Holden — acoustic design services for Performing Arts, Educational and Cultural Spaces Worldwide: https://www.jaffeholden.com/
• Lloyd Sports + Engineering — Lloyd Sports + Engineering has focused on the planning, design and construction of sports facilities since coining the term “sports engineering” in 1987: https://www.lloydengineers.com/
• Friedman Tax — accounting services specifically for tattoo parlors: https://friedmantax.com/

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

In this episode, Mark and John take aim at the traditional pitch deck — and explain why it no longer works in modern business development.

From distraction overload to one-sided broadcasts, they outline five reasons slides don’t sell and why leading with a deck often undermines real sales conversations.

They also explore what to do instead:

• Shifting from presentation mode to dialogue
• Reflecting and synthesizing what buyers say
• Anchoring conversations in a clear statement of understanding
• Using visual aids strategically (not habitually)
• Maintaining narrative control by sending recordings, not slide files

If your default move before a new prospect meeting is “Where’s the deck?”, this conversation is for you.

#DitchTheDeck 

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

“We’re in a bad economy…”
“We’re experts. We’re never wrong…”
“We’re up against tough competition…”
"Our point of contact was a jerk..."

…but what if it’s not them? What if it’s you?

In this episode, John and Mark dissect what it truly means to be accountable when you lose a prospective client. We dig into the obstacles that professionals encounter when owning up to losses and present actionable strategies to transform setbacks into stepping stones for growth. 

In this conversation, we cover:

• Why do we default to the ‘blame game’ ?
• The role of firm culture in nurturing or stifling accountability
• Why losing is a pivotal opportunity for growth
• Strategies for effective internal reflection and owning outcomes
• How mindset, preparation, and continuous learning can help you overcome setbacks.

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Imagine you could fast-forward your firm's growth and watch it like a time-lapse video going through different stages:

• Solo 
• Small 
• Mid-size 
• Enterprise

What needs to happen in your sales and marketing functions to achieve growth at each stage? How do sales and marketing challenges evolve?

That's what this episode is all about. 

Listen as John and Mark guide you through this sales and marketing maturation journey, along with guest appearances from Reuben Swartz and Mel Lester. We explore topics like:

• The importance of documentation, processes and systems (at every stage)
• How to keep the entrepreneurial flame lit as firms grow
• Why rainmakers don't scale, and how to leverage a seller-doer model
• What firms typically do when the referral well runs dry
• The role of automation and efficiency at larger firms

Show notes:

• According to the 2024 census, 60% of businesses in the US are one-person businesses. (source)
  Of businesses with employees, 50% have only 1-4 FTEs. (source)
• SPI Professional Services Maturity Model: https://spiresearch.com/ps-maturity-model/

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Discover the art of being utterly indistinguishable from your competition.

In this episode, John and Mark dive into the art of blending in, unveiling the tongue-in-cheek strategies to completely lose your edge and suck at differentiation. Listeners will learn how to avoid standing out, ensuring a legacy of mediocrity. 

Join us for a humorous—yet insightful—look at what not to do, ensuring you grasp the full spectrum of effective (and ineffective) differentiation strategies.

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

When you think of the word ‘salesperson,’ what comes to mind?

In this episode, John and Mark explore how professionals can shed ineffective sales habits and adopt a more authentic, client-centric mindset based on inquiry and curiosity. With guest insights from Mel Lester and Blair Enns, you'll learn why introspection and a shift from selling to serving can lead to more satisfying and successful client relationships. In this conversation, we cover:

• The pitfalls of adopting a stereotypical 'salesperson' persona and why authenticity matters.
• Practical tips for improving self-awareness and identifying bad sales habits.
• Examples of how using servant leadership with clients can lead to better business outcomes.
• Lessons on tactical empathy and how open-minded conversations can extract real value in sales.

Connect with our guests on LinkedIn:
• Mel Lester: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mellester/
• Blair Enns: https://www.linkedin.com/in/blairenns/

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

It's easy to get caught up working too much *in* the business and not enough *on* it. If you're feeling similar these days, bookmark this episode and hear the breakdown of the four activities you might have overlooked as the calendars turned:

• Talk to your clients
• Optimize your client portfolio
• Update service packaging and pricing
• Create a talent management & development plan

Improve your sales and marketing game this year. 

Subscribe today!

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Align yourself with other consultants in-orbit around your clients to deliver more value.

Strategic partnerships can transform the way your business grows, turning the equation 1 plus 1 into something much greater. In this episode, John and Mark uncover the value and opportunities hidden within strategic partnerships for professional services firms. They explore how combining resources with the right partners can enhance client services and gain a competitive edge. We also have a guest appearance by Julie Geller, Principal Research Director at Info-Tech Research Group, who speaks to how tech companies evaluate consultants as potential partners.

In this conversation, we cover:

• How we define strategic partners
• How to add value with other consultants in orbit around your clients
• Examples of different kinds of partnership types
• Who you should target
• Perspective from Julie Geller on how software companies evaluate potential partners

Connect with Julie on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliegeller/

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Win new business from accounts that share a common characteristic. This way, you can build your brand and create efficiencies.

In this episode, John and Mark explore how firms can build Segment Development Plans that help firms grow relationships with prospects that represent a specific kind of client account. Combining SWOT analysis with targeted marketing efforts, business developers can use these plans to create a distinctive brand presence. In this conversation, we cover:

• Different ways to group segments of the market
• Why you tailor your offers for specific groups of the market
• How to perform a SWOT analysis to align strengths with opportunities
• Other considerations for your firm’s Segment Development Plan

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Transform the way you grow key accounts.

Yes, you can achieve revenue growth and strengthen client relationships by developing comprehensive account development plans. In this episode, John and Mark share how to co-create effective account development plans with your clients. In this conversation, we answer key questions like:

• Why is it important to expand business with organizations you’re familiar with?
• How do you start building an account development plan?
• How do you prioritize clients for account development planning?
• What's an example of a simple message to get a conversation started?

Download the account development planning template: https://www.wainwrightinsight.com/landing-page-account-development-planning-template/

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Emotion drives purchase decisions more in B2B than B2C. Let that sink in.

Yes, even when selecting professional service providers, emotion plays a major factor in decision-making. The relationships we forge and the stories we tell influence opportunities, contracts, and the clients we work with.

In this episode, John and Mark delve into proven storytelling frameworks that can help professional services firms set themselves apart and connect on a deeper emotional level with clients. Joined by guest expert Troy Hiduke Campbell, they break down how stories can transform bullet points into compelling narratives that resonate and drive action. In this conversation, we cover:

• How storytelling can create emotional connections in professional services
• Disney's story spine framework and how it can be applied to business
• The power of the word "because" in crafting causally related, memorable stories
• Various storytelling frameworks you can start using today
• Practical steps for gathering and structuring client experiences into impactful narratives

Connect with Troy on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/troy-hiduke-campbell/

Learn more about On Your Feet: https://www.oyf.com/

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Unlock the full potential of your firm's ability to *create* new business by mastering both inbound and outbound revenue generation activities.

In this episode, John and Mark explore the synergy between inbound and outbound business development activities and how they can work together to produce exceptional outcomes. They discuss the importance of both approaches, how firms can effectively harness these strategies, and the potential pitfalls when they're misaligned. In this conversation, we cover:

• The core differences between inbound and outbound
• How to balance and inbound and outbound activities
• Real-life examples of inbound and outbound activities
• The signs and risks of team misalignment and how to avoid them
• Practical tips for creating a feedback loop to optimize lead generation and nurturing

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Most professional services firms approach growth the same way: copy what their competitors are doing, refine it slightly, and hope for better results.

In this episode of Breaking BizDev, we explore why that mindset creates stagnation—and why the firms that grow fastest often look outside their industry for better strategies.

We talk about the “professional services echo chamber,” why benchmarking can backfire, and how borrowing ideas from other sectors can unlock differentiation, stronger positioning, and a more scalable approach to business development.

If you're a firm owner, doer-seller, or sales/marketing leader trying to break through a growth plateau, this episode will give you a sharper way to think about what actually drives sustainable firm growth.

CHAPTERS:
00:00 Introduction
02:06  Cross-Industry Insights
04:04 AEC employs more seller-doers
09:15 Accounting firms are digitally mature
13:21 Creative agencies have strong account management
17:33 Wealth Management firms use Centers of Influence
23:42 Different pricing models across industries
28:08 Conclusion

Research mentioned in this episode:
• 2026 High Growth Study by Hinge Marketing
• AEC.BD report by Stambaugh Ness and SMPS
• Marketing Budget Benchmark Study by the Association for Accounting Marketing

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Coffee isn’t just for closers. 
Buyers can smell your commission breath.
Good salespeople don’t have all the answers. 

In this episode, John and Mark bring on voices from other sales and marketing experts in the professional services realm. Featuring clips from Blair Enns, David C. Baker, Jason Mlicki and Jeff McKay, this episode explores the importance of mindset in developing new business:

• The significance of habit-building and mastery of both marketing and sales
• Why it’s important to maintain a low self orientation and avoid selfishness
• The pitfalls of relying on RFPs and the benefits of a proactive strategy
• How to avoid slipping into a salesperson ‘alter ego’
• The impact of sleazy sales tactics on client relationships

Win Without Pitching: https://www.winwithoutpitching.com/
Punctuation: https://punctuation.com/
Rattleback: https://www.rattleback.com/
Prudent Pedal: https://www.prudentpedal.com/

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Believe it or not, lead generation can actually work. Even for accounting, AEC, or consulting firms. In this episode, John and Mark break down the importance of lead generation, exploring why firms need to take it seriously beyond just waiting for RFPs. They highlight various lead sources, compare inbound and outbound strategies, and discuss effective multi-channel approaches. In this conversation, you’ll learn:

• How we define a “lead” in the context of a professional services firm
• Why many expert firms don’t believe in generating leads
• The point in a firm’s growth cycle where firms explore lead generation
• Various sources that have contributed leads to both John and Mark’s businesses
• Examples of firms that are doing lead generation effectively today

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Get a behind-the-scenes look at Breaking BizDev.

In this episode, John and Mark pull back the curtain on the production process, the technology they utilize, and how they're building listener engagement. From their first episode to their vision for the future, you'll hear what has worked, what hasn't, and their plans moving forward.

0:00 Intro
1:50 Origin story
10:40 Listener shout outs
13:47 Top 3 episodes
21:24 Experiment recap
27:15 Future possibilities

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Leadership transition is a major brand milestone and a cultural crossroads.

So what role does sales and marketing play?

In this episode, John and Mark explore how sales and marketing both support succession planning and leadership transition. In this conversation, you'll learn:

• Why it's important to expose young team members to sales and marketing early in their careers
• How practice, failure, and learning play a pivotal role in developing the next generation's sales acumen and business skills.
• The impact of a firm’s marketing and branding strategy during leadership transitions
• Techniques for democratizing expertise within the firm to reduce over-reliance on individual leaders and shield the organization from turnover risks.
• The significance of systematizing the business development process 

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

The role you play in developing new business changes as you grow throughout your career.

Whether you're a junior practitioner, mid-career professional, or seasoned industry veteran, this episode is for you. John and Mark explore how firm employees—regardless of tenure—can (and should) contribute to developing new business. In this conversation, we cover:

• The importance of research and being exposed to BD processes early in professionals' career
• Building peer-level relationships within client organizations for long-term success.
• Strategies for mid-career professionals to build their personal brands and engage in content creation.
• Mentoring the next generation by allowing them to learn through their own experiences and mistakes.

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Mitigate risk and navigate the contracting phase effortlessly

In Part 3 of this deep dive into the "Create, Choreograph, Contract" framework, John and Mark break down what happens between a verbal agreement and a signed contract. They look at the emotional and practical aspects of risk in decision-making processes, how both clients and consultants can manage and mitigate uncertainties, and how to handle other parties like legal and finance in the contracting phase. In this conversation, you'll learn:

• How to manage and mitigate risk without dropping price
• How to understand—rather than handle—objections 
• The importance of maintaining focus on results
• How to approach legal and accounting during contracting
• Negotiation strategies to anticipate potential issues and ensure progress

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Make your sales process look effortless and feel frictionless.

In Part 2 of their deep dive into the "Create, Choreograph, Contract" framework, Mark and John explore the importance of deliberate and structured interactions with buyers, like how mirroring and reflecting can establish trust, and how seeking permission at each step ensures both parties are aligned. In this conversation, you'll learn:

• The four essential stages of the sales process: qualification, discovery, recommendations, and negotiation, each with tailored strategies for success.
• The power of mirroring and reflecting through body language, words, and posture to create a comfortable rapport.
• How to use tactical empathy tools to foster open and vulnerable dialogue.
• The importance of synchronous conversations for avoiding misinterpretation and ensuring clarity.
• Techniques for managing negotiations through conversation, addressing red lines and understanding the reasons behind edits.

References:

• Understanding the Trust Equation, Charles H. Green
• Never Split the Difference, Chris Voss
• Permission Marketing, Seth Godin

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Yes, it is possible to get off the RFP hamster wheel. 

In Part 1 of their deep dive into the "Create, Choreograph, Contract" framework, John and Mark uncover the secrets behind creating the firm you want by breaking down different market segments, leveraging your network, and the power of proactive opportunity creation. In this conversation, you'll learn:

• The "iceberg" concept, which reveals a majority of potential clients are in the passive and status quo groups, offering hidden opportunities.
• How referrals from known individuals can accelerate trust-building and lead to quicker, more successful client acquisitions.
• Why developing account and segment development plans are crucial for gaining a deep understanding of clients and targeting new business.
• How proactive opportunity creation can reduce competitive pressure and lead to more fulfilling engagements.
• Using conferences as a prospecting example for targeted outreach to expand your network.

Stay tuned for Part 2 and 3 of this business development framework.

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Is your BD process disorganized? Disjointed? Nonexistent? 

Consider using this 3-part framework to get your sales back on track. 

In this episode, Mark introduces his three-part business development framework, "Create, Choreograph, Contract", aimed to help doer-sellers and dedicated business developers create a cyclical process for winning new business. In this conversation, you'll learn:

• An overview of "Create, Choreograph, Contract"
• Why firms should consider creating their own new business
• The elements of a choreographed sales process
• The pitfalls to watch out for during contracting

Stay tuned for bonus episodes that go deeper into Create, Choreograph, and Contract.

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

If you're an engineer, architect, advisor, or consultant, chances are at some point in your career you'll need to learn how to develop new business. 

On this episode, Mark explains how experts and firms can create a "sales competency matrix" that helps firms identify and then build competence in specific areas. He does this by mapping 6 sales competencies across 5 levels of master:

6 Sales Competencies:

1. Behaviors and Mindset
2. The Sales Process
3. Sales Planning
4. Practice, Industry, and Client Knowledge
5. Prospecting
6. Pricing and Value

5 Levels of Mastery:

1. 知る / To know of or to have heard the concepts
2. 分かる / To know and really understand the concepts
3. 出来る / To be able to do on your own very well
4. やりつける / To do continuously very well over time (and show improvement)
5. 教える / To be able to do and to teach it well to others

Read more in this blog post by Mark:
https://www.wainwrightinsight.com/six-sales-competencies-for-professionals/

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Most business development conversations don’t fail in the meeting—they fail in the follow-up.

In this episode of Breaking BizDev, John Tyreman and Mark Wainwright unpack the DOs and DON’Ts of follow-up and explain why it’s one of the most critical—and most mishandled—parts of business development.

They frame follow-up as a link in the chain that either moves opportunities forward or quietly pulls them backward. Through real examples from sales and marketing, they show how effective follow-up builds clarity, trust, and momentum—and how bad follow-up (or none at all) derails deals.

You’ll learn:

• What good follow-up actually does in sales and business development
• Common follow-up mistakes that break momentum
• Why “just checking in” often does more harm than good
• How follow-up supports choreography from conversation to contract
• The difference between sales follow-up and marketing follow-up

A must-listen for consultants, firm owners, doer-sellers, and anyone responsible for generating and closing professional services work.

Past episodes mentioned:

• The Psychology of Familiarity: Building Trust With Mere Exposure
• Checking In, Ghosting, and the Magic Email

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Understand your buyers. Win more business.

That's what an Ideal Client Profile (ICP) helps you do. 

In today's episode, John and Mark explore why understanding your ideal client profile is essential for aligning your sales and marketing efforts, and offer examples of how to apply your ideal client profile (ICP) in business development activities.

On this episode, we'll explore:
 
00:00 What is an ideal client profile? 
04:57 The four quadrants of an ICP
08:20 Sources of primary data
12:18 Different ICPs for various company roles
14:26 Using ICP to qualify leads and opportunities
15:40 Email segmentation based on ICP.
16:47 Use ICP to refine service offerings.

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Why do we always cheer for the underdog? Think about your favorite underdog story. Chances are, you want to see David beat out Goliath. 

Well, the same thing that gets you to root for Rudy or the Bad News Bears is the same thing that's killing your firm... 

In this episode, John and Mark break down "the underdog effect" and how it can cause you to chase after projects you have only a slim chance to win, wasting valuable time that could be better spent elsewhere.

This episode originated as an article by Mark. Check it out on his website:
https://www.wainwrightinsight.com/the-underdog-effect-is-killing-your-business/

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Your revenue projections are your firm's crystal ball. 

If your backlog, pipeline, and projections are organized, it can position your firm in a way to do healthy, proactive marketing to win highly profitable work.

In this episode, John and Mark break it all down:

• How marketing can make both a short- and long-term pipeline impact
• How marketing's goal should be different for active, passive, and future buyers
• How niche specialization can lead to higher margins
• How revenue projections can impact recruiting and resource allocation
• The concept of splitting the funnel into vertical segments
• Why you should over-invest in marketing for new or emerging verticals

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7

Midway through your fiscal year, any business is faced with one of three revenue pacing scenarios:

1. You’re exceeding expectations
2. You’re exactly where you thought you’d be
3. You’re not meeting original revenue targets 

On this episode, Mark breaks down different ways to set revenue goals (revenue per employee, calculating potential revenue, and using a net multiplier) and how to factor in weight based on deal stage and opportunity age into the equation. 

Then, we lay out an example that illustrates when it may be more beneficial to focus on developing your existing pipeline than creating new opportunities. 

Share your feedback in our listener survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/8V9T6Z7