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[00:02:23] - Intro

Your due date is March 14th. A single, confident, perfectly circled square on the calendar, handed over by a smiling professional with a plastic wheel. And God help us, we believe them. We want a date so badly that we will take one from a cardboard dial, knowing full well that only about one baby in twenty is punctual on their appointed day. When the date rolls past with no baby yet to speak of, people start asking questions. They start to pressure you into evacuating your unborn child from their warm, amniotic universe. Because there’s a new numbers game at play. “Your baby could die if they wait too long to be born”. Childbirth is ripe with opportunity to examine our ongoing challenges in making predictions and ascertaining risk.Why are human beings so bad at judging risk, and why does it feel even harder in high stakes games like childbirth? Fertility, pregnancy, and birth offer a lot of uncertainty. You are forced to make decisions with never a guarantee of outcome. To understand why decision-making is so hard in the face of uncertainty, we have to drag four modern witnesses into the light: Nassim Nicholas Taleb, Daniel Kahneman, Amos Tversky, and Gerd Gigerenzer. They do not agree on much, but they have contemplated the same wound.

[00:03:50] - The Problem is Not New

The troubles we face in decision-making around risk are not new. In the 1700s, a Scottish philosopher named David Hume noticed that we tend to play tricks on ourselves to uphold our faith in whatever tomorrow brings. The sun has come up every morning of your life, so you assume it will come up again. But yesterday’s sunrise does not guarantee a sunrise tomorrow. Your first pregnancy was easy, so surely your second will be, too. All of your friends and family skated through childbirth, so you’ve got this in the bag. Your Instagram followers are also rooting for you because you “did everything right”. You are betting that biology is a creature of habit, like the bartender who remembers your favorite cocktail. You have no proof that the future will unfold just as it did yesterday, though a streak is a streak, and sometimes that’s the best you’ve got. Philosophers call this inductive reasoning, whereby specific observations are used to formulate a generalized conclusion about the world. This is the process that leads to hypotheses and better research questions. Deductive reasoning, on the other hand, moves from general blanketed observations in order to get clear on specifics. This is the process that is used to challenge hypotheses. The pregnancy continuum and all of its advisors - credentialed or otherwise - often fall into the trap of inductive reasoning, like a moth lured to the flame. The issue is that a flame cannot cast a shadow on itself. A flame may leave you blind to the greater context of life outside of abstraction.

[00:05:17] - Black Swans

For millennia, Europeans had seen nothing but white swans and concluded, with the serene ignorance of inductive reasoning as so often practiced by the “well-informed”, that all swans were white. In 1697 some Dutch explorers wandered into Australia and found black swans, and the whole theory that all swans were white was incinerated. One black swan killed it. Karl Popper built a philosophy on this inconvenient asymmetry: you can never prove an idea true, only fail to break it. Any obstetrician will tell you the same thing in a softer voice. Ninety-nine uneventful deliveries do not make the hundredth safe. This soothing balm makes you less worried about your chances.In 1921 an economist named Frank Knight drew a sharp distinction between “risk” and “uncertainty”. Risk governs over the casino. You know the odds of your roll before you throw. Uncertainty is starting a new company in a bad economy: nobody knows the odds of you succeeding, but they don’t sound great. Fertility sits on the boundary between risk and uncertainty. The statistics are real but is the risk to your own birth truly found in the data? A young, healthy couple has roughly a one-in-five chance of conceiving in any given month, and most get there within a year. But those numbers describe a crowd, and you are not a crowd. You are one person with one body on one road, and the average does not care to learn your name. This is, in fact, the problem with the Law of Averages: nobody is average. You either fall below or above the average of something happening. Keynes made a related point, arguing that no man alive could calculate what interest rates would be in twenty years. Nobody can likewise calculate your twenty-year-old self’s answer to “when should we start trying?” So how do you navigate a dark alley, rife with uncertainty? The ancients had two answers. The Stoics, men like Seneca and Epictetus, suggested sorting life into two piles: what you control and what you do not. You can control what screenings you receive throughout your prenatal care. You can control the questions you ask. You can control where and with whom you give birth. You can control which advice you turn to in improving your chances of conceiving. But you cannot control whether conception takes two months or two years, and you certainly cannot control the outcome of your birth. Spend your effort on the first pile and make peace with the second, like a sailor who has stopped arguing with the ocean. Blaise Pascal, who in 1654 swapped letters with Fermat and helped ignite the modern discourse around probability itself, offered a more practical tool: weigh the stakes. You cannot know if labor will start early. But having all of your ducks in a row costs you almost nothing if you guess wrong.

[00:07:55] - Taleb: The Turkey Knows Nothing

Mathematician Nassim Nicholas Taleb takes this philosophical discourse straight into Wall Street. But it applies just as well to the maternity ward. Suppose you were a turkey. You are fed every day for 1,000 days by an amicable farmer. Every meal makes you more certain that the farmer is your dearest friend, your guardian angel in overalls. On day 1,001, the day before Thanksgiving, you wake up feeling the most certain about your friendly farmer friend. But later that day, the farmer shows up with an ax.Your observations were on point. But your intuition remained silent about the one event that mattered most. Taleb calls these rare, ruinous surprises to our plans “Black Swans”. By nature, Black Swan events are always perceived as an ambush, because they don’t tabulate into our certainty about life until after they happen. In pregnancy, sudden complication are Black Swan events. Others are pregnancy losses or stillbirth that come without warning, or consider a baby who decides she is ready to come out of her warm amniotic universe 8 weeks early. Most pregnancies go fine, and that is exactly the problem with these events when we apply this framework to the pregnancy continuum. The spreadsheets of the statisticians are filled with data from healthy, unremarkable births. But the Black Swan events fill our nightmares and drive policy. After a tragedy on the maternity unit, the mind goes hunting for a reason, a sign, some “thing” that should have been done, because a story we can blame feels safer than a world where it simply happened. This fallacy is most cruel in maternity care, because in your grieving you go looking for guilt even when there may be none at all.The critics say the whole thing is hard to test because any disaster can be pointed to as a Black Swan. This is what the outspoken, authoritative, alternative health community does really well. And they are not wrong. Even Taleb admits that this point is slippery. In obstetrics, a team of professionals who has seen enough of these disasters no longer sees them as Black Swans, which is still a fallacy in and of itself. But the impact that these disasters has on both birthing families and the staff in attendance to the birth are sufficiently horrific that health care professionals plan accordingly in an effort to reduce their risk to zero. And that is in and of itself another fallacy.

[00:10:08] - Mediocristan and Extremistan

Take 1,000 pregnant women and line them up. How many will give birth more than, say, 3 weeks earlier or later than 40 weeks? Almost every pregnant woman gives birth within a few weeks of 40, and one outlier does not change that average. Taleb calls such a world “Mediocristan”. But a serious complication lives in the tail of the bell curve. It is rare. Wealth works differently nowadays. Add one billionaire to a room of 1,000 people and he owns almost everything. Taleb calls this world “Extremistan”, and he warns that using the neat bell-curve math that governs Mediocristan to predict events in Extremistan is like “walking through a minefield with a map of a golf course”. That is why hospitals do not plan around the average birth. They plan around the worst hour of the worst night: a truly emergent c-section after a previously healthy sounding baby crashes on the fetal heart rate monitor. The baby barely survives, along with the mother, as the father of the pregnancy looks on at both of his loves in their respective intensive care suites. Those who focus on these “worst case scenarios” are not pessimists. They are doing what humans do.

The critics might point out that health care professionals know about odds and probability, but that it is hard with the data you actually have to know whether you are in Mediocristan or Extremistan, so perhaps we can give them a break if they are planning for the tails rather than the average. In medicine this uncertainty carries a heavy cost, because planning for the tail has a price of its own. Defensive caution - in the name of liability, guilt, shame - has led to over-intervention: more surgeries, more monitoring, more cascades of decisions made by a clinician who is afraid of being sued or simply the heartache that comes from losing a baby on your shift. The doctor bears the legal cost of a bad outcome, and the patient bears the physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual cost of an unnecessary bad outcome. Neither party is wicked. The incentives are just pointing in different directions.Let us turn to another example. Say a coin comes up heads 99 times in a row. A statistician in a clean white shirt says the next flip is still 50/50, because the coin is uncompromised. A street-hardened fat cat Wall Street trader named Ricki Ravioli with smears of spaghetti sauce on his lapel, on the other hand, takes one look and says the coin is rigged. The statistician is following the rules of the game, like a man who keeps playing poker while the table is on fire. We use the prior results to tabulate odds of future results. But maybe Ricki has a point?Life never hands you the rules. In reproductive medicine, the quoted odds assume things about your body that nobody has yet checked. Epidemiology assumes the coin is uncompromised. Your history, your age, your results so far? Those are the 99 heads of the coin flip example above. Taleb calls this the ludic fallacy, the habit of treating a messy reality like a board game with the odds printed in the game instructions. The statistician is right about the problem as written, and every model in history has been an abstraction. Fine. But the question is how badly the abstraction lies to you, and the cost of guessing wrong becomes the burden of the family.

[00:13:11] - Antifragility

So what do you do when prediction is impossible? The Stoics recommend to stay away from the kind of loss you cannot come back from, and quit pretending to forecast the rest. A bet that is reasonable on average can still be a bad bet if one outcome ends the game, because you only live one life. This is what I see happen to my friends around the black jack table. They keep doubling down because they are on a streak. They could walk away with their winnings, but they place a chip to sit for one more hand. And they lose it all. Casinos are banking on this fallacy.Taleb’s word for this is ergodicity, which is a fancy way of saying that what happens to a crowd on average tells you almost nothing about what happens to the individual. This is why obstetric care obsesses over the catastrophic outcome, even when it is rare, and why a plan that is safe 999 times in 1,000 can still be the wrong plan if the thousandth cannot be undone. This is a good time to begin thinking about the cost of every decision in your pregnancy and childbirth planning. What is the cost if you or your care team guesses wrong? This is why home birth is perceived as irresponsible.Wealth advisors’ practical answer to this vast unknown comes in the shape of a barbell. Put most of your resources somewhere dull and safe, and a small share into long shots that could pay off. In a birth plan, that looks like having a strong preferred scenario and also a prepared emergency fallback: you hope for the calm room and the dim lights, and you also know exactly how to get to an operating room with surgeons. You are armored against the surprise and still free to hope. Taleb calls this “antifragility”. The critics of this method point to Philip Tetlock’s work showing that a small band of financial forecasters really can beat chance, which is awkward for anyone who claims the whole business is hopeless. Such forecasters unfortunately don’t exist in medicine, even if court precedence tries to suggest otherwise.

[00:15:00] - Kahneman and Tversky: The Wiring Is Bad

Daniel Kahneman and Amos Tversky were psychologists who spent decades demonstrating that the human mind is a creature of bad habits. A pregnant woman scrolling a birth forum at midnight may land on a horrific viral birth story from a well-known hospital. The brain remembers this, just like the obstetrician who remembers a home birth transfer that ended tragically. With repeat exposure, the brain begins to treat rare event as “common” because the mind judges how likely something is by how easily it can picture it, and nothing is easier to picture than a vivid story.A history of losing bets also molds our decision-making. Offer a person a coin flip: heads they win $150, tails they lose $100. On average they are $25 ahead every time, but many are unwilling to play this game. This is why so many fathers-to-be gets lost in sports betting. Losing hurts about twice as much as winning feels good, so we become averse to loss. After the loss of a pregnancy or child, the fear of going through it again can blind our ability to make rational decisions. It is not stupidity. It reflects a nervous system and emotional body that want to be protected from pain. There is substantial data suggesting that an obstetrician’s decision-making is likewise affected by prior, especially recent “bad outcomes”. The real challenge is that a good story can beat logic. A woman named Melissa is seen breastfeeding her baby on a subway. Somebody might describe Melissa as outspoken and passionate about mothering. Is Melissa more likely to breastfeed her child or is she more likely to be a pro-breastfeeding advocate? Most people choose the second, and they are wrong, because the second group is a smaller group inside the first, so it can never be more likely. It only feels more likely, because it fits the story. We do the same with the external appearance of pregnant women. We look at a fit, young, thin pregnant woman and assume that she will have no complications and exercise her autonomy through a picturesque home birth. We look at someone older and maybe a bit overweight and decide that a bad outcome is waiting. The stereotype feels like evidence. It is just a good plot, and our brains - both midwives and obstetricians - are suckers for a plot.

Kahneman and Tversky qualified this as human error to be corrected. Taleb argues that the fear of loss is a well-preserved survival instinct. The jury is still out as to how this all plays out in maternity care. Interestingly, behavioral research has struggled to demonstrate this tendency universally. The priming studies Kahneman wrote about in Thinking, Fast and Slow did not hold up when other scientists tried to repeat them, and Kahneman himself admitted that the evidence is weak (for now). But do any of these examples ring true for you?

[00:17:36] - Gigerenzer: Blame the Messenger

Gerd Gigerenzer bought Knight’s contrast between risk and uncertainty, but he refuses to accept the idea that people are just hopeless. His optimism arises from an argument that most of what we might consider “bad” decisions is due to a mismatch between the tools we were given in ascertaining risk and the reality of how odds play out in life.

Gigerenzer’s favorite examples come from screening tests, and there are many screening opportunities presented to birthing women in the West. Say a condition affects 1 pregnancy in 500, and a screening test catches 90 percent of affected pregnancies (true positives) but also wrongly flags 5 percent of unaffected ones (false positives). A woman tests positive. What are the odds the baby is affected? Give that question in percentages and many clinicians will say 90 percent. Now picture 10,000 pregnancies. Twenty are affected, and 18 of them test positive. Of the 9,980 unaffected pregnancies, about 499 also test positive. That is 517 positive tests, and only 18 of them are true positives. The real chance is about 3.5 percent. A related trap is the headline that says a risk has “doubled.” If it goes from 1 in 7,000 to 2 in 7,000, it did double, and it is also still tiny. The relative number sells the story. The absolute number should be more relevant to your decision.Where the odds cannot be known at all, Gigerenzer argues that simple rules often beat elaborate ones, because the elaborate ones memorize the past and choke when the world changes. Labor in childbirth offers a clean example. Nobody can predict when it will go from false alarm to “baby time”, so many clinicians teach some variation of a simple rule of thumb: head in when contractions come about 2-3 minutes apart, last about a minute, and persist for about an hour. It is not perfect, but it is a rule a frightened person can actually use at 2 a.m. when there is no obvious answer. This is where Gigerenzer’s and Taleb’s works collides: antifragile frameworks can help to avert disaster while not nullifying risk completely. Despite this contraction pattern guidance, you still have women who arrive on the maternity unit thinking they’re in labor because their contraction pattern meets the clinician’s recommended pattern only to find that it was “false labor” (false positive), but in this case the odds are in your favor that you are truly in labor (true positive). When general probabilities are available, sometimes comparing probabilities is all that we can do to make a decision. This is, after all, a cornerstone of the practice of medicine.

[00:20:14] - Act Anyway: Arjuna, Parzival, and the Duty to Decide

All of this could send a sensible person storming off to bed with arms crossed. If humans struggle with risk ascertainment, and our trusted practitioners are also human, then what is a birthing family to do when asked whether they wish to proceed with a given intervention? Who attends their birth? Who to trust for supportive information and advice? Deciding to wait is also a decision. So is deciding not to decide. Both are bets, and in this territory the clock is part of the wager.Some older stories may be of service here…The oldest one may be the Bhagavad Gita. The warrior Arjuna stands between two armies, bow trembling, paralyzed. He cannot know how the battle will end, who will be lost, or whether any of it is right. His charioteer, Krishna, does not hand him a forecast. He tells him, in effect, to stop negotiating with the outcome. You are entitled to the action, not to the results. Do the work that is yours to do, and let go of the fantasy that you can steer the ending. The Gita calls this svadharma, one’s own duty or calling, and it argues that it is better to do your own work imperfectly than someone else’s work well. For someone facing fertility or birth, that is a strange kind of comfort. You can show up, ask, prepare, choose, and care. You cannot guarantee the result. Whether to try, when, how, or at all, is a decision that belongs to you and not to a relative, a forum, or a spreadsheet.The European romantic epic poem, Parzival, from Wolfram von Eschenbach is, among other things, a case study in how not to handle uncertainty. Parzival has been taught not to ask too many questions, and he remains quiet while standing before an agonizing Fisher King. Parzival stays quiet, swallowing the one question that mattered, a simple question about what ails the man. His silence feels safe and polite but it costs him the grail (for now). He wanders for years to make up for his mistake only to learn from a hermit about the true essence of compassion and right action.Notice how neatly this fits our other witnesses. Taleb says the one who acts must also be part of the consequences (“skin in the game”), which is why informed consent matters and why your voice belongs in the room. His barbell is a structure for deciding without knowing. Kahneman’s loss aversion is felt by the cold feet Arjuna. And Pascal, with his umbrella and his wager, was making the same point from the start: you have to bet, because you are already in the game. Gigerenzer’s clear numbers can be a means by which you could compare probabilities. The story of Parzival adds an additional element that is perhaps the most important of all. What does it mean to do the “right thing”? Parzival didn’t ask the question to the ailing Fisher King upon his first visit the Grail Castle. He meandered for years scorning the sky and Earth for his mistake, desperate for a second chance. But that time spent in contemplation was not wasted. It was during this time that Parzival became capable of asking the question, of learning compassion for others, of doing the right thing. When the opportunity re-presented itself, Parzival was not obeying a new rule that gave him permission to ask the question. He acted from a place of embodiment, and he was moved to do the right thing. His was an act of maturity.Becoming a mother (or father) is scary. The process is mostly out of your control. But perhaps courage is not the absence of doubt. Perhaps courage reflects acceptance of uncertainty. And then doing your best anyways to move forward without having answers to all of the questions.

[00:23:40] - A Voice That Matters

So here is the picture, after all the smoke clears. The philosophers, psychologists, and mathematicians that have been brought forth in this essay fight about whether our instincts are mostly poison or mostly tools. None is fully right or fully wrong. They end up in the same dim waiting room, nodding at the same truth: the goal is not to feel certain, as certainty is never possible in life, especially childrearing. If we can’t hope for certainty, what else might there be? The hope I have for every parent is to make a decision based on your best judgment. You are the sole owner of the outcomes of the decision, but don’t be hasty. Nor can you stay at the bus stop forever. Eventually a decision will be made for you, regardless of your preparedness to decide. Ask your questions. Pack your bags. Have a plan B. Then walk into the forest.The answer that hasn’t changed over the ages is that as a parent (or soon-to-be parent), you will invariably, at some point in time, be forced to make a decision without knowing the outcome. This decision will have to be made without any guarantees. But it is a decision you will have to make from the place of uncertainty, and there is a certain beauty in that uncertainty that you have been conditioned to equate with irresponsibility.A great exercise…Imagine someone tells you that you are wrong.

What happens inside you when someone says that? In our society, we are often incentivized to posture ourselves around certainty, especialy in medicine. After many years, however, I can say for myself that I have become more comfortable with the opposite gesture. I find myself increasingly saying: “I don’t know…yet”. Could this be our task as humans in a world rife with uncertainty? Could maturity and wisdom actually be gauged with our ability to utter the words: “I don’t know”. And to mean those words? Is it a weakness to admit uncertainty without any intention of finding evidence to convince others of the inverse in the future?Imagine a table of voices are assembled to help make a decision around vaginal birth or cesarean. The evidence brought forth by ACOG gets one seat. The physician (or midwife) and their accumulated experience gets another seat. Immediate circumstances take a spot at the table. Conscience gets a spot. And the last chairs go to the well-intentioned mother-in-law and the statistician. None of these voice are fully right. None are fully wrong.A couple is standing at the front of the room. Holding a microphone, offering to hear from these stakeholders. Perhaps the dilemma is that decision-making begins when only one of those tabled voices is permitted to hold the microphone.

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews. Enroll for your 7-day free trial!More ways to work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Clear & FreeMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.

Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

Elizabeth Catlin is a proud CPM and mother of 14 (!!) living in central New York. She was charged arrest twice back in 2018, and we met sometime 2020 when she was officially charged with 95 felony accounts: 94 accounts of practicing a profession without a license and one additional homicide charge over the death of a baby. She ultimately walked away with community service hours rather than a lifetime in jail. This conversation gets to the heart of what ails the midwifery community at-large.

* What toll does a three-year experience with the legal system have on your family and emotional body?

* What does it mean when your community stands up for you, knowing that you aren’t guilty of anything but being an exceptional birth attendant and community member?

* How does this experience change your perspective on the value (or detriment) of hyper-regulation of midwifery through licensure and credentialing?

Liz will be coming with us to Austin, TX, in November 2026 for (likely) the last Born Free Twins-Breech Gathering. She’ll be on a panel with Elizabeth Beachy, CPM, Danielle Kitt, CPM, and Nubian Earth Martin, CPM. Liz asked me after the recording why this might be the last gathering of this sort that I will be offering. First off, I haven’t decided this to be so. But I do wonder how much more juice can be squeezed from the analytical, computational way of attending to births. Certainly, there is value in peer-reviewed literature and hands-on training. No doubt. But what are we missing? Why is the needle not budging? Why do outcomes appear to be getting worse despite the volume of training and education available to individuals who feel the calling towards attending to childbirth? These are the questions I have been sitting with, and more projects are in the works for exploring some of these more immaterial, mysterious motifs. Stay tuned…You can reach Elizabeth by email: elizabethjoycatlin@gmail.com

References from our conversation:

* My first interview with Elizabeth back in 2020

* Arrest the Midwife PBS documentary featuring Liz

* NYCPM

* A Tale of Two Midwives across Four Centuries

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews. Enroll for your 7-day free trial!More ways to work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Clear & FreeMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.

Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

Joni Edelman is a registered nurse who began attending births when she was 18, then lived out a career in hospital birth, transitioned to hospice care, and then eventually found her way to traditional midwifery. She calls herself a “holistic attendant” due to the reality that terms like “midwife” and “birth attendant” are now the property of the state. That seems like a bold statement, but in effect it means that the state can dictate what a “midwife” can or can’t do, without any consideration perhaps for what birthing families in that state desire out of their care team. This is where the ongoing licensure debate has some teeth. On the one hand, proponents for licensure might argue that licensure offers an avenue by means of which a person trained in the skills of midwifery can practice without fear of being jailed for practice of a profession without a license. On the other hand, opponents of licensure may argue that licensure often comes with unreasonable restrictions to the practice of midwifery, which may be the oldest “profession” in the world alongside prostitution. Way back when, there was no need for labels, licensure, and regulatory influence. A woman doing what is now called “midwifery” would be doing so out of necessity in service to her clan, community, or tribe. She may not have even been charging money (not that that’s a problem), because the tribe was small enough for her to serve this function and have her needs met. She learned her skills through other elders in her community, and, whether she wished it or not, would ultimately become the most experienced living caretaker of birthing women over her lifetime. But nowadays, with human society being as complex as it must be to serve hundreds of millions of people through equality and equity, and with economics of inequality, a midwife must find their place through the myriad regulations and other red tape that would otherwise have been vested to a woman with a calling to this “vocation” through lived experience alone. This has led us to an impasse in our current state of affairs, where high-quality midwives are being prosecuted for deaths for which they aren’t responsible and other credential holders are walking away from tragedies hiding behind the protections of their credentials. My conversation today with Joni attempts to provide some grounding to the challenges of birthwork which are paralleled by the challenging to birthing families who wish to proceed with childbirth with any degree of autonomy. And if we truly believe in autonomy, how does abortion fit into this conversation? We touch on that, too…Find Joni at her website or on Instagram

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews. Enroll for your 7-day free trial!More ways to work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Clear & FreeMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.

Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

My guest on this episode of Born Free Method: The Podcast is Robin Lanier, pedagogical director at the Waldorf School of Louisville. Robin has been teaching children for over 20 years, meaning he’s been working on his own spiritual growth for at least that long. In this conversation we discuss Archangel Michael through the lens of Rudolf Steiner, the story of Parzival the knight, and even tie in some J.R.R. Tolkien to keep things interesting. This is a fascinating and beautiful conversation that is especially important for the work that I bring to the world through childbirth and as a father, husband, and friend during especially trying times.

Here is some important background context…

Archangel Michael has played a prominent role in a variety of the abrahamic and esoteric traditions for ages. Michael can be seen as Christ’s second-hand man. He carries “cosmic intelligence”. As human beings moved toward more independent, earthly thinking, Michael “released” this intelligence to be developed by humans themselves, through free will and reason rather than divine revelation.

Michael is also the adversary of Ahriman, one of the “devils” in Steiner’s cosmology. Ahriman is not “Satan”, per say. Ahriman embodies the reductive materialistic ways of the modern world, with its mechanization and reduction of the spirit to pure calculation and technology. Michael doesn’t reject the material or intellectual world, but wants it infused with spiritual awareness rather than dominated by soulless rationalism.

As a small aside…let’s review some basics of esotericism:

* Lucifer = too much spirit, too little earth (illusion, escapism)

* Ahriman = too much earth, too little spirit (materialism, mechanization)

* Christ = the balance point between them

* Michael = Christ’s “regent” or forerunner in the present age, specifically tasked with keeping Ahrimanic forces in check so humans can find that balance through free, conscious thinking rather than old-style mysticism or cold rationalism

This is important today because Steiner taught that we are living in the “Age of Michael”, a period (he said starting in the last quarter of the 19th century) where Michael’s influence makes it possible — and necessary — for humans to consciously choose spiritual knowledge rather than have it given to them. This is tied to Steiner’s broader idea of anthroposophy as a path of free, thinking cognition of spiritual reality.

If you are new to the idea of materialism and are already doubtful about what has been said about Ahriman, consider what has happened in technology and artificial intelligence over just the past decade, and you’ll begin to see what Steiner alluded to when he spoke to the “Ahrimanic forces” of the world. These are the forces that Archangel Michael is actively working against in order that the spirit of each human is not consumed by earthly forces but rather balanced between earth and spirit, like a cosmic antenna.

We are now entering the season of Michaelmas, which is punctuated - even in medieval times - by a great feast around September 29th, marking the re-embodiment of the ego consciousness into our earthly, vital bodies. This time of year is associated with themes of courage, willpower, and confronting fear (symbolized by Michael slaying the dragon) as inner qualities needed for this age, which explains the deeper meaning of the Dragon Faire for Waldorf children around ages 6-7.

The essence of Archangel Michael also comes through in the Middle High German poem: Parzival, written by Wolfram von Eschenbach between roughly 1200 and 1210, running to about 24,800 lines across sixteen books. The story follows a naive young knight raised in isolation by his widowed mother, who eventually leaves home, is inducted into King Arthur’s court, and stumbles into the mysterious Grail castle — where his failure to ask a simple question of compassion condemns him to years of wandering and further trials before he can return, mature and enlightened, to finally heal the wounded Fisher King and receive the Grail. It is ultimately Michaelic influence through which Parzival finds strength and will within himself to “do the right thing” which brings that which he is seeking within reach.

This theme is relevant to our work as people living within a community, and it’s especially relevant to birthwork, where the birth attendant must support a family sometimes out of impropriety for the rules and procedures of society. This work is a sacred calling, but fully expressing your unique human genius is also a sacred calling, and it is this time of the year that we are impressed with the importance of exercising our will to find our heart center and answer the call.

References from this conversation:

* Parzival: A Romance of the Middle Ages, by Wolfram Von Eschenbach (author), Helen M. Mustard (translator) (Best translation for prose)

* Parzival, by Wolfram Von Eschenbach (author), Jessie L. Weston (translator) (Best translation for poetry)

* The Hobbit And The Lord Of The Rings, by J.R.R. Tolkien

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews. Enroll for your 7-day free trial!More ways to work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Clear & Free

Medical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.

Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

Egg meets sperm.

This is what we are told happens for a baby to be born. On closer examination, you will notice that the egg, when rushed by not one but tens of thousands of strong sperm begins to spin. Counter clockwise. Or perhaps it is spiraling, like a whirling dervish, like an ammonite fossil, like the Lakota Sun Dancers around a sacred cottonwood, like the horns of the Ekoi dance mask. The great song of creation is played out through myth, storytelling, and dance across many cultures, from subatomic particles all the way up through the cosmos.

Spirals appear everywhere in nature, including in the human heart, which when boiled and teased apart unravels into a single strip of muscle tissue that coils around itself into a four-chambered structure, the structure of which creates a vortex of blood passing through.

Is your heart merely a pump? There has been sufficient curiosity evoked by the team at the HeartMath Institute, Branko Furst and his colleagues, “Paco” Torrent-Guasp and his contemporaries, and even the brilliant Leonardo da Vinci that the heart has more elegant roles than merely pushing and pulling blood.

You might be thinking: “This is ridiculous. Of course it is one egg and one sperm. Of course the heart is a pump.”

And maybe that is the problem. Maybe there is a problem with the mind (thoughts/emotions).

It is your mind that has led to your partner is dissatisfaction in your marriage or in your bedroom. It is your mind that gets you in trouble when birth politics arise on social media. It is your mind that makes you react impulsively during periods of heartbreak or when a piece of media enrages you.

Do not get me wrong. The mind is valid and important, and the only people without an intact mind are either dead or in an insane asylum.

It is your mind that has taught you to be afraid of the world. Somebody - or some thing - has impressed upon you to be afraid of this or that thing, idea, feeling. Fear must be sometimes turned ON to stay alive. This is not the issue. The issue is that we were never taught to turn fear OFF.

By doing things that scare us, we can learn to relate to fear more effectively. The antidote is embodiment. Embodiment is the consequence of connecting to our feelings in addition to our mind.

Your mind interfaces with your will, with your choices, and with your words, but I suspect that we are far too consumed with “thinking” and far too out of touch with the pull of our hearts. If you were to imagine existing solely through your thoughts and emotions, you would be left with the reach of the artificial intelligence (AI) movement. This abstraction of the human experience should make you feel something, and the notion that we can be human in our reach for mind without heart sounds like living hell on Earth.

The Great Song of Creation

Most of my time is spent advocating for maternity care system reformation, fueled by passion to restore traditional midwifery care to its rightful place as the default care offered to birthing families in the United States.

Birth has long been seen through the lens of Western medicine as a medical procedure, and yet for even longer than our written history permits, females have been giving birth as a biologic imperative. It is true that some babies of the past would have been saved through induction of labor, antibiotics, c-section, and other medical technologies, but that is not my point.

The Sioux nation did not need to rely on a story of immaculate conception to believe in miracles. The beauty of the natural landscape around them was enough. They felt this deeply. Ohiyesa, author, physician, and member of the Sioux, or Dakota, nation wrote about the ways in which the women of his tribe gave birth.

He shares that the mind of the woman does play a role in this process, but it is limited and may surprise you. When she falls pregnant, she meditates daily on a great individual in her tribe who embodies the ideal qualities of the creative impulse of nature, like reciprocity, courage, and patience, in order to impress upon the unborn child the attributes of this great individual. That is where the mind ends. She does not think her way into growing a baby or birthing her baby any more than she thought her way into making love to conceive her baby.

In order to disturb this impression, she avoids personal contact, favoring isolating whenever possible. She practices stillness in the forest. She wanders the prairies alone. She feels everything such that the majesty of Mother Earth can be impressed upon her child. In her heart, she conceives of this child as a reflection of Great Spirit, born from the natural world, “dreamed out in a hush broken only by the sighing of the pine tree or the thrilling orchestra of a distant waterfall”. (Ohiyesa, 1858-1939)

When the day comes to meet her child, she remains isolated, fully embodied with the necessary preparation demanded of this exciting gift. When she hears her baby cry in the darkness, she knows that she has fulfilled her “holiest of duties” as a member of Great Spirit’s song of creation.

Immersed in nature, she is not distracted by questions and concerns of her fellow tribespeople. She is instead showered with the praise of the birds, bees, trees, and flowers beneath her knees.

Contrast this with even the best intended advocates for reform within maternity care, where we are arguing about Georgia’s licensing laws and the ARRIVE Trial.

The Heart Can Grasp What the Mind Cannot

While reading this story, something may have moved within you. You might relate that it brought you joy, or sadness, or anger. Those are emotions.

Forget about thinking…What did you feel?

The heart is the center of your feeling life. The heart is what is moved. The heart is not afraid. The heart does not judge. Fear and judgment are activities of the mind.

Master storyteller Michael Meade describes well the experience of the heart (versus the mind):

“The mind may come to know things through a process of acquiring knowledge and information. The knowledge of the heart is instantaneous and it is revelatory, it is also holistic, and thus it is the primary source of coherence in our lives. While the slightest thing can cause us to change our minds, a life-changing or a life-enhancing moment depends upon a change of heart…Great visions and deep understandings do not come through thinking alone, but rather it is imagination that carries messages between our brain or mind and our heart, allowing thought and feeling to meet. To grasp the truth, we must get to the heart of the matter. To truly know something, we have to know it by heart. To fully express ourselves, we must speak from the bottom of our hearts…And what we need at this fearful time on Earth is the kind of radical transformation that can only begin in the depths of the human heart.” (Michael Meade, Living Myth Podcast, Ep.504, 2026)

A mere pump ca not do that.

A Change of Heart

I was recently blessed with an experience in darkness with Edmund Knighton, PhD.

When your visual cortex is removed from your experience, you get the perfect amount of medicine, with the right amount of spirit, and just enough universe to have a breakthrough in reconnecting to your self. This is the experience of embodiment, which, put simply, is the act (art) of connecting to the experience of your body and heart. You have no idea how much the mind distracts from your inner life until you are blindfolded in pitch black darkness for 36 hrs. That is when the magic begins…

For me, the magic came through dance. I remember lying on the grass and being invited to stand and move to some soft music. Without fear, without judgment, without fear of judgment, I began to move. It was subtle at first, but soon evolved into a kaleidoscopic flow of masculine and feminine energies through my four limbs and my heart. I moved myself to tears, as I felt whole again. I had clarity. I connected with my true essence, which was grounded fully in love. I sobbed not out of sadness. There was no emotion, just flow.

This is why I prefer to make love to my wife in the dark. My mind is removed so that I can be fully embodied in the experience. I can feel everything that she is experiencing. The subtle parting of her lips when I lean over to kiss her. The soft caress of her wet tongue over mine. The quivering of her lower abdomen with slow, deep penetration. The relaxation of her hands, feet, and hips after orgasm as we lay together and feel our hearts connected once more.

We are Missing the Point

Babies are conceived between romantic partners through a cosmic dance of love, where our poles create a microcosmic orbit. The rainbow within us is fully brilliant, and the zygote that results is a codification of consciousness itself.

Consciousness is a big word. The mind is limited - perhaps too limited - in its ability to grasp “consciousness”. And forget what you were told about the brain being the source of consciousness. That does not feel true to me and even some of today’s greatest thinkers have minds that agree with my inner sensibilities.

If we were to rely only on our minds, we would have no way of elaborating consciousness. The mind relies on our senses, and while our senses do interface with our feeling life, they can also distract from our heart center. I learned this from the darkness. Your senses are used to measure the environment, to ascertain safety, but not everything that can be measured is important to embody the essence of who you are.

Likewise, just because something can not be measured does not devalue its importance. You can not measure love or grief or consciousness. We do not even have a clear definition of consciousness, or any clue where it ends or where it begins. The never-ending abortion conversation fumbles this completely. An unborn baby lives in darkness, and likely has no bearing on where they end and their mother begins. This is not a question for the mind. This is a question for the inner life, the feeling life of the mother. How does she know she is pregnant before the butterflies and kicks? I do not know. But she knows in her heart.

What I feel happens with that rotating egg is that the spiraling activity - much like the practice of the whirling dervishes - brings spirit into the newly formed zygote. Can I measure this? Can I prove this? No. But I do not have to. I also can not prove to you that I love my children. I feel it in my heart to be true. And since we do not have a better explanation, that is a truth I am willing to stand by.

If we relied solely on our minds to experience the world, we would have no appreciation for orgasm, romance, grief, or the entheogenic experience of visionary plant medicines.

A lot of human innovation has come from our feeling life, far beyond the world of rights and wrongs.

Consider the classical ayahuasca “brew” of chacruna (leaves of Psychotria viridis) combined with ayahuasca (vine of Banisteriopsis caapi). There are (at least) 40,000 documented plant species in the Amazon rainforest, which is likely a gross underestimate. The number of possible combinations of any of these two plants is around 1 in 800,000,000.

In order for these two plants to have found one another, either two people in the Amazon river basin got very lucky, or the plants directed a human to join them together. Which is more possible? I do not have an answer, but I suspect that - given that the practice of drinking ayahuasca is at least one-thousand years old - something more mysterious is at play, and that this bizarre coincidence is not the byproduct of human mental faculties. Ancient humans, in conference with the jungle, felt their way in the darkness to unite these two allies on behalf of some cosmic influence.

Where are we going?

I propose that, if we have adjusted to the possibility that we as a collective desire birth attendants to support childbirth in order to mitigate risk and improvise safety in a physical process that is anything but safe to the psyche of the birthing family, then we are approaching the conversation about reforming maternity care entirely wrong.

There are calls for more data, better data, more comprehensive meta-analyses, and more measurements to satisfy our minds that we have done everything we can to prevent the death of a member of the mother-baby dyad. I can not responsibly argue against this trend, as this inventory has been a major boon to my practice as an obstetrician.

However, if a woman is not thinking her way into getting pregnant or giving birth, what does it mean to this process if we walk into their birthing quarters in a disembodied state?

We are trying to find answers to birth through our thoughts and emotions, and that has led us to a very narrow passageway devoid of any heart.

When we arrive to a birth, we should be thinking. But we should also be feeling. The medical construct of obstetrics does not lend itself to the feeling life of its practitioners, and many midwives are fighting with bureaucracy to be granted permission to have the same luxury of data and technology that keeps them likewise in their heads and out of their bodies.

The answer is that birthworkers (myself included) should be focusing as much on our inner life as we are searching for papers to support our bias on Pubmed.

This is the only way forward.

Conclusion

I once sat with traditional midwives in South Africa, and I was invited onto their dance floor to cut a rug, and cut a rug I did. They were joking with me afterwards that the words to the song spoke to the inability of white people to move their hips.

Many of us white people were raised in a culture that taught us to be afraid of moving our bodies, to show off our beautiful skin, to speak unless granted permission. As I have already said, this is the work of the mind.

Anybody can dance well, as it is a very natural action of moving these beautiful bodies to the rhythm of music. But this requires us to feel the rhythm. And the same culture that judges us for enjoying lovemaking is equally excited to prescribe you drugs to suppress your “feeling” life. (Think antidepressants, anxiolytics) This same society has outlawed medicines - real medicines, not drugs - that disconnect you from your mind, medicines like ayahuasca, chacruna, LSD, psilocybin mushrooms, and others.

The remedy for this could be as simple as embracing stillness in nature. Embracing darkness. How do we become re-embodied after a lifetime of ignoring the signals from our hearts? This is my work going forward as a physician.

This is the cornerstone of the upcoming Born Free Twins-Breech Gathering in Austin in November, 2026. I am also organizing a trip to Costa Rica with a handful of birthworkers to do just this with the support of Vocal Transformation and Grandmother Aya.

This is just the beginning, and it is a drop in the bucket, but I will know soon where to go from here.

A Closing Meditation

Embrace your inner life. Surrender to the mysteries of birth. Your mind could use a rest. And your clients are going to love the new you.

You have let Mother Culture create an abstraction of life on your behalf, so much so that large language models (AI agents) are starting to feel very human. AI can never replace your humanity. It can describe emotions, and it can think as fast as (or faster than) we can. But it can not feel. It can not ground itself in loving presence.

The AI revolution is an invitation to consider the cost of losing your humanity as a birthworker, because it can never replace the essence of your heart. You have a soul. You can feel presence. AI agents were not granted these gifts.

There have been calls for a reclamation of the soul of midwifery. “It is the soul that informs the compassion we feel for others and that suffuses the mundane with a sense of the sacred. It is the soul that translates incident into experience, knowledge into wisdom.” (Jane Hope, “The Secret Language of the Soul”)

You were once a baby, existing in the darkness of your mother’s womb. Surrounded by the warmth of her amniotic fluid. As a baby, you needed no help to be embodied. You were fully there. Fully present. Fully alive.

I will leave you with an invitation.

Close your eyes and connect to the sensations in your body. Feel your heart beating. Place a hand on your heart and a hand on your belly. Take a deep breath. Feel your aliveness. Say this with me: “I AM”. Say it again. “I AM”. Take stock of what is going on inside of your body. The weight of your hips on your seat. The weight of your upper eyelids on your lower eyelids.

Breathe.

How does that feel?

Nathan Riley, MD is a dual-board certified physician in obstetrics and gynecology and hospice and palliative medicine. He is also the co-creator of the Born Free Method, an online platform that supports families around the world throughout the fertility through postpartum continuum. Find more support at Beloved Holistics and Born Free Method.

Most electronic health records (EHRs) were designed for a different era, with clunky interfaces, confusing navigation, and tools that were never quite right for the way you actually work.Sena EHR was built specifically for CPMs and midwives doing out-of-hospital births. That means charting that reflects real midwifery scope, including vaginal breech and multiples. Billing, messaging, scheduling, and documentation in one place. A system that works on any device — even offline at a birth with no signal.In this interview with founder Dani Sigmon, you’ll get the scoop for the latest and greatest EHR platform and what sets it apart from the rest!We don’t typically do promotional podcasts, but Sena EHR is the only sponsor that we permitted at the 2026 Born Free Twins-Breech Gathering. Their support made it possible for us to add an additional scholarship this year, and we are so grateful!

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews. Enroll for your 7-day free trial!More ways to work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Clear & FreeMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

In this episode, I chat with Farah Tanis, founder of Restore Forward. For the 2026 edition of their WILD Healing Summit, the theme is “A Harvest of Medicine”. I can’t impress upon you how beautiful this offering is, and it was right up my alley when Farah asked me to present as a speaker.

Here are the reasons that I want you to support this event:

* There are a number of amazing speakers that will presenting online, including - Dr. Mmatshilo Motsei, Iakowi:he’ne’ Oakes, Dr. Neena Van Luven, and more - then it culminates in physical presence on their sanctuary in upstate New York — a feast, a performance, and a “medicine walk”

* The language throughout leans on “walking with” rather than “attending” — suggesting a relational, participatory model rather than a passive audience experience

* The 2026 theme, “A Harvest of Medicine,” ties the event to seasonal/agricultural imagery — suggesting themes of gathering, culmination, and traditional or plant-based healing practices, consistent with the “medicine walk” element on the land

Overall, the ethos reflects: nature-rooted healing, intergenerational and communal participation, and a hybrid of digital accessibility with grounded, in-person ritual, all of the components of a more beautiful world that we know is possible.

My personal presentation is probably the best I’ve ever given. I explore the complex nature of fertility and the limitations of conventional medical approaches. I begin by discussing how modern medicine’s focus on reductive materialism misses important aspects of fertility. I outline my expanded approach to fertility workups beyond conventional reproductive endocrinology, incorporating functional medicine testing, nutritional interventions, and emotional/relational considerations. I challenge the gene-centered view of human biology, discussing epigenetics, intergenerational trauma transmission, and the possibility that water’s properties within cells could influence genetic expression. My presentation concludes with insights about the importance of embodied experience over intellectual approaches to conception and birth, drawing parallels between human fertility challenges and our disconnected relationship with nature.

The 2026 WILD Healing Summit takes place on September 9-10, 2026, online, culminating in an in-person opportunity on their land in upstate New York on September 12th. Even if you can only participate online, please go register at www.wildgala.com.

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews. Enroll for your 7-day free trial!More ways to work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Clear & FreeMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.

Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

Edmund Knighton, Ph.D., is a seasoned educator, clinical psychologist, and somatic movement practitioner whose multidisciplinary career spans more than three decades. He has engaged through various capacities with Waldorf education for over 35 years, once even serving as the president of Rudolf Steiner College. Drawing on the teachings of Rudolf Steiner, the channeled material of “Ra” from the The Law of One, and somatic/transpersonal psychology, Edmund offers consulting for individuals, organizations, and families (including my own) committed to holistic growth.

You won’t find Edmund on social media, but you can reach out to him by email: Fifthwanderer@gmail.com if you ‘d like to have his support in your home.

In Part 1 of this series with Edmund, we discussed some of the basics around Steiner’s philosophy, the Waldorf pedagogy, a 3- and 4-fold approach to human wellbeing, and we started our venture into autism.

In Part 2, we dove deeper into “autism” but also offered an invitation to consider the extrasensory gifts displayed by many “autistic” children. We also covered vaccines.

In Part 3, we discussed the significance of the Holy Nights, a time of spiritual reflection and preparation leading up to Christmas as well as the days that follow.

In Part 4, we focused on men. What is men’s work? What does it mean to embrace your feminine? What is meant by femininity and masculinity? What does this have to do with sex, childbirth, and love-making?

In Part 5, we will explore darkness, sleep, and the importance of being “moved” throughout our life. We also go deeper into the masculine and feminine energetics of being (versus doing).

Edmund shares this Rilke poem early in the conversation, and it is really captures quite a bit of what we discussed:

You, darkness, that I come fromI love you more than all the firesthat fence in the world,for the fire makes a circle of light for everyoneand then no one outside learns of you.But the darkness pulls in everything-shapes and fires, animals and myself,how easily it gathers them! -powers and people-and it is possible a great presence is moving near me.I have faith in nights.

- Rainer Maria Rilke

This conversation took place roughly a week before a men’s retreat for fathers that I am hosting alongside Edmund in Idaho this August. This retreat will include blindfolded activities, MDMA-assisted sessions, movement exercises, and integration practices, aiming to foster trust, vulnerability, and deeper connection among these fathers (or soon-to-be fathers). As a preamble to our time together (and epilogue to a recent darkness retreat that I attended in Aspen, also hosted by Edmund), we explored the value of darkness retreats, the role of sleep and dreaming from the perspective of Rudolf Steiner, and the importance of reconnecting with the feminine, being moved emotionally, and experiencing presence and essence beyond productivity. We reflected on masculine and feminine energies, the significance of darkness in opening perception, and the potential for personal transformation through embodied practices and conscious unraveling of inherited identities.

Be sure you don’t miss Edmund’s beautiful reflection on the menstrual cycle and blood as a sensing organ at [00:34:40]

Email Edmund at fifthwanderer@gmail.com (He isn’t on social media)

References from our conversation:

* Check out Be Here Farm+Nature’s event offerings, as Edmund is frequently featured

* All About Love, book by Bell Hooks

* Buddha in Redface, book by Eduardo Duran

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews. Enroll for your 7-day free trial!More ways to work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Clear & FreeMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.

Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

Wayland Myers, PhD, is a clinical psychologist who trained first as a mechanical engineer before pivoting into psychology, a background that seems to show up in how methodically he approaches something as slippery as human conflict. He’s spent much of his career teaching and writing about Nonviolent Communication (NVC), the empathy-centered framework originated by Marshall Rosenberg, and is the author of Nonviolent Communication: The Basics As I Know and Use Them.

Myers’s particular contribution is less about inventing new theory and more about translation, taking NVC’s sometimes abstract language and making it usable in the middle of an actual argument. His core idea is that most conflict escalates because people default to judgment and blame instead of naming what they’re actually feeling and needing. Shift that, he argues, and disagreement stops being a tug-of-war and starts being something closer to a joint excavation whereby two people begin digging toward the same root, rather than digging in against each other.In this conversation, Wayland shares his background in psychology, hospice care, and his introduction to NVC through Marshall Rosenberg, leading to his writing of a primer on the subject nearly 30 years ago. They discussed the core principles of NVC, including the distinction between the “language of giraffe” (compassionate, curious communication) and the “language of jackal” (moralistic, evaluative language). Wayland provided examples of NVC in action, such as a parent-child conflict and a role-play scenario involving a midwife and an OBGYN, demonstrating how to connect by empathizing with the other person’s feelings and needs. The conversation also touched on the challenges of emotional intelligence, the application of NVC in politically charged discussions, and its broader impact on relationships, including parenting. Wayland expressed his hope for the legacy of NVC to be a deeper understanding that all human behavior is driven by a life-serving intent to improve well-being.

NVC is so badly needed in today’s world, particularly in the way that we - as birthworkers - are communicating with one another and other healthcare professionals. We have lost the art of connection, and finding our way back starts with the daily conversations we have even with loved ones.

I use NVC in my marriage, with my friends, and with my children, as Wayland’s work has subtly had a profound impact on parenting and what is now known as “gentle parenting”.

Purchase his very accessible book on Amazon. And check out the Center for Nonviolent Communication for more. He also has a website but it hasn’t been updated in a while.

Be sure to check our role play of an OBGYN and midwife transferring a client to the hospital around minute [00:54:40]

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews. Enroll for your 7-day free trial!More ways to work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Clear & FreeMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.

Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

Born Free Method: The Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

This was a community call hosted within our Born Free Method program. We meet each week and the calls are recorded, and occasionally we are blessed with a guest like Veda Ray. We repurposed this conversation as a podcast, and it covers a wide range of topics that may be relevant to postpartum planning, especially as you might relate to the conversation around a birth certificate. We also talk about social security, trusts, lotus birth, placentas, taxes, and other topics related to sovereignty, which starts when you decide you want to have babies. This is an important one…

Connect with Veda on Instagram and find her offerings for support on these topics at her website.

References from the conversation:

* Ep 193: The Hidden Ledger: Taxes, Debt, & Restoration Of The Living with Govinda Tidball (Alec Zeck podcast)

* https://ourdataourselves.uoregon.edu/topics/birth-certificate-standardization

* https://exittaxclub.com/

* Word Magic: The Powers and Occult Definitions of Words, by Pao Chang

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews. Enroll for your 7-day free trial!

More ways to work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Clear & FreeMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.

Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

Born Free Method: The Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Ashley Mariani is a trauma-informed couples therapist specializing in intimacy and relationship issues that arise during pregnancy and in the postpartum. She is one of those people in the trenches helping couples reorient themselves to sex and relating with the addition of a baby into the mix. This is not niche, this is not unique: every relationship experiences some degree of hardship after birth.

Connect with Ashley on Instagram. Want to work with Ashley? Email her at: contact@mindonline.ca

[00:02:55] - When we get into arguments with our intimate partners (or anybody, really), the unmet needs of our inner child surfaces. This is especially relevant for men, who are often lacking guidance on managing and exploring the underpinnings of their emotional landscape.

[00:06:30] - We are storymaking machines, but are all of the stories that we write about our partners true?

[00:11:15] - Trauma in and out of the obstetrics model. Trauma can be inflicted in the obvious ways but also through dismissive behavior or language by your partner or practitioner. Moderating disagreements between partners around interventions in childbirth.

[00:17:13] - Nonviolent communication and seeking to fill the unmet need underlying every instance of emotional conflict.

[00:25:00] - How does birth trauma impact a couple’s connection/communication? When a partner doesn’t provide an anchor of safety during an act of obstetric violence, for example, this lack of felt safety may roll over into their relationship in the postpartum. Ashley has a very great exercise for couples struggling with shared decision-making as their birth approaches.

[00:35:00] - How can a couple begin to re-engage in penetrative intercourse and other forms of intimacy? (Pay attention men!)

[00:43:00] - Communicating needs to your spouse and prioritizing one-on-one time with a baby in the mix

[00:48:54] - Navigating struggles with the lack of intimacy and feeling of obligation to your partner sexually after giving birth. Men often struggle with feeling “third wheel” energy and appropriately grieving the changes can be an opportunity to flex your masculinity.

[00:52:26] - Intimacy troubles alongside co-sleeping. ALERT: It’s healthy and normal for you not to get right back to your pre-pregnancy sex life immediately postpartum. It could take years!

[00:59:00] - How do you manage being “triggered”, withdrawing, and shutting down in response to your partner?

Connect with Ashley on Instagram. Want to work with Ashley? Email her at: contact@mindonline.ca

References from the episode:

* Nonviolent Communication: The Basics As I Know and Use Them, by Wayland Myers

* Fair Play Cards

* Hear Ashley and others (like Dr. Stu!) speak at the 2026 Reclaiming Birth Gathering

Related episodes:

* What He Never Learned: Repair, Responsibility, and Men’s Silent Longing for Connection with Ted Riter

* From Fighter to Sage: Kyle Kingsbury on Fatherhood and Fitness Beyond the Physical

* Edmund Knighton, PhD (Part 4) - Sacred Polarities: The Ra Material, Steiner, and a Man’s Work in Conception, Childbirth and Beyond

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews. Enroll for your 7-day free trial!

More ways to work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Clear & FreeMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.

Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

Born Free Method: The Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Eric Osborne is the founder of the first legal psychedelic mushroom church in the United States. He has been working with psilocybin mushrooms (and culinary mushrooms) for decades, feeling a pull from without him to continue on this journey despite legal troubles, jail time, and putting his family at risk of losing it all. And yet he persists, because he believes that psychedelic mushroom journeys could be the answer to many of the world’s woes. This passion led Eric to found Psanctuary, where people across the world can find community and engage in ceremonies led remotely by Eric and his team.

[00:20:00] - Why are psychedelics important to the world?

[00:21:05] - Like snakes, mushrooms can be both poisonous and beautiful. What is consciousness? How do psychedelics support reflection on the “big” questions?

[00:40:46] - Could psychedelics deepen your relationship to “God”?

[00:44:00] - Universal laws and codes of the universe exposed through DMT and lasers

[00:47:24] - What role do mushrooms play in the ecosystem and how might this also be beneficial for humans?

[00:49:50] - How have experiences with mushrooms and MDMA helped Eric become a better father?

[00:54:00] - Psychedelics can be confronting to societal mechanisms of control, which is probably why they’re illegal. Sitting in a jail cell with substance abusers who could be saved through psychedelics. The foundations of Psanctuary, the first legal mushroom church in the United States. What if the original eucharist was a mushroom?

[01:13:40] - How to get started using psychedelic mushrooms

https://www.psanctuary.org

References from the show:

* Danny Goler’s experiments with lasers and people on DMT

* The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name

by Brian C. Muraresku

*

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews. Enroll for your 7-day free trial!

More ways to work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Clear & FreeMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.

Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

Born Free Method: The Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

I am so glad that you are here!

There are a lot of birth- and pregnancy-related podcasts, and many do a great job of breaking down the clinical information pertaining to fertility, birth, pregnancy, and postpartum.

This is all fine and good…but I have still have questions despite being dual board-certified as an OBGYN and hospice and palliative care physician.

What is life?Where do babies come from?Does it matter how babies come in to the world?What is consciousness?What is intelligence?What happens to us when we die?These are the types of questions that keep my heart strumming! And every episode of Born Free Method: the Podcast aims to provide a small piece to the puzzle.

Enjoy!

www.bornfreemethod.com

I met Maryn Azoff and Patrick Surdam through their Vocal Transformation program. Well…to be clear…my wife found them on Instagram and went to Costa Rica on a whim to workshop with them for a week, and it changed her life and mine as a result.

Maryn is a professional singer, and Patrick is a professional musician. Their goal? Help you reclaim what was rightfully yours at birth: your voice.

But their retreats aren’t necessarily a means of getting through to Hollywood on America’s Got Talent, although perhaps that could be the case for some. Their workshopping is a means of getting you out of your head and into your body.

When you are embodied, you have no problem using your voice, standing your ground, and moving your hips.

What does this have to do with birth?

Giving birth isn’t something we do in our heads. It’s a fully embodied experience. And yet…most women giving birth in our country are trying to think their way through this sacred archetypal transformation. When they reach out for support from birthworkers, the latter are also often stuck up in their heads.

What would it mean for the world if the women birthing babies and the birthworkers supporting this process weren’t totally caught up in their heads but rather embodied in the moment?

You can’t think your way into conception. Data can’t love you like your partner. And babies can’t feel safe because of some protocol devised in an Ivory tower. But our culture seems to think so.

None of this is your fault. So don’t do that thing that we all tend to do, where we whip ourselves for “not doing it right.”

When you were born, you didn’t apologize for how loud you cried. You didn’t apologize for coloring outside the lines as a toddler. But as you matured, Mother Culture - the parents, priests, and “leaders” who were there to guide you - compelled you to be small and “think before you speak”.

I have a vision for maternity care, and I suspect that it’s going to very hard to realize this vision if we remain stuck in the “mental” game of statistics, protocols, and procedures. We need to dis-member ourselves and re-member what a gift it is to be alive, to have a voice, to have legs and hips, and to use these tools of expression as boldly as possible.

This conversation is the beginning of something huge…

Please share this episode if anything resonates with you! And go check out all of Vocal Transformation’s offerings if you were inspired by this conversation!

[00:19:20] - Introduction to the professional musicians behind Vocal Transformation; sound is produced by and can harmonize the body (and world); music can help you transcend the material notion of “I”; the voice is your supreme instrument[00:28:41] - The spirits of plants (visionary or otherwise) can help us remember our connectedness to everything and everyone; if we are honest with ourselves, we don’t really know anything with 100% certainty - life is a mystery; plants can reinforce some uncomfortable truths that we’ve been taught about ourselves; dis-membering so that you can re-member; babies aren’t born with a sense of limitations (we edit and manipulate them to be quiet)[00:43:51] - The value of a connection to the Earth (Pachamama) for orienting our questions around the mysteries of life; the value of ancestry and lineage; the United States does, indeed, have a rich cultral heritage through the music that we’ve been producing for 100 years[00:57:14] - Icaros are songs taught to us by plants and that can be then used to call in the spirits of plants in ceremony; these songs can come to us at any time if we are listening[01:08:16] - The goal of Maryn and Patrick for those who attend a Vocal Transformation Expressions Retreat is to find your authentic “song” and to reawaken the body (drop from your head into your heart); Expressions is about “soul” and finding the beatGo check out all of Vocal Transformation’s offerings if you were inspired by this conversation!

Additional resources related to the conversation:

* Masters of the Living Energy: The Mystical World of the Q’ero of Peru

by Joan Parisi Wilcox

* Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism by Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche

* Tribe of Love (Maryn is a vocalist is some their music is played in their ceremonies)

* One of my favorite songs by Cura Cura, “Dead Man”

Related episodes:

* Maryn’s first appearance on the podcast

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews. Enroll for your 7-day free trial!

More ways to work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Clear & FreeMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.Music provided by Cura Cura Music

Born Free Method: The Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Sara Rosser, CPM, and I (Nathan Riley, MD), reunited in Florida for an organizing meeting ahead of the 2026 Born Free Twins-Breech Gathering, which takes place in Austin, TX, November 12-15, 2026. While we were awaiting the rest of our amazing team, we sat down to discuss Sara’s recent home birth to which I was an attendant. There were a number of things that arose that could have resulted in a hospital transfer and probably c-section, but she knew herself and trusted her team. At the heart of her birth was workshopping between Sara, me, and Sara’s midwife, leading to this episode’s conversation around consent, disagreement, parenting, and more, such as vaccines. This conversation also gave us the opportunity to reflect on the value that we bring to our Born Free Method Community members on a daily basis.Follow Sara and Bornfreemethod on Instagram!If you’re currently pregnant, planning to have kids in the future, already parents, or if you’re a birthworker, come try out the Born Free Method for FREE.

[00:04:15] - Nathan attended Sara’s surprise breech birth; building a birth team that you trust; workshopping before hospital transfer

[00:20:15] - we must not let our fear of hospitals delay transfer, especially when a birthing woman senses something is off

[00:27:05] - exercising freedom requires that you also own the outcomes of your decisions (vaccines as a case study); a reminder on what it means for a family to provide consent; when parents disagree about interventions, who gets veto power?; struggling with pediatric decisions

[00:38:00] - you can’t undo decisions related to your child, so you must start working on your parenting styles as soon as you consider trying to conceive; the power of saying “not now” to interventions

[00:48:00] - advice for families risking social ostracization as the cost of exercising their autonomy; don’t presume that you know the position of your friends and family on various

Related episodes:

* Dr. Larry Palevsky: the Pediatrician You Didn’t Know You Needed

* Who Holds the Wisdom? Learning to Transgress Hegemony in Midwifery and Maternity Care

* In the Waters of Rememberance: Honoring an Obstetrics Hero

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews. Enroll for your 7-day free trial!More ways to work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Clear & FreeMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

Born Free Method: The Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Ann-Emilie Augustinus is a Danish midwife or, in her native language, jordemoder, which literally translates to “earth mother”. Ann-Emilie and I connected as a consequence of ongoing limitations to midwifery practice in Denmark. At present, midwives are virtually inaccessible to families in Denmark.

Often European models of maternity care are hailed in contrast to the U.S. models, but from her story, you’ll be able to appreciate that midwifery is collapsing worldwide. In fact, another recent guest - Hadhee Jah, the Last Birthkeeper of the Maldives - shares a shockingly similar story.

How did a people found through Viking conquest and settlement based in freedom allow this to pass in Denmark? This is what we discuss in this episode. We also dive in to traditional practices pertaining to birth, many of which could still be practiced today, but these oral traditions are fading with the midwives.

00:06:30 - The collapse of midwifery in Denmark. What is a person to do if they aren’t permitted (legally) to attend childbirth. Why have the people of Denmark stopped trusting in their bodies to have babies? The modern day witch hunts.

00:24:20 - How did the Danes go from autonomous combatants of authority historically to following every rule passed down by authority figures? Thor, Völva, and more. What were midwives of older times like in Denmark?

00:32:50 - Origins of ljósmóðir (Light Mother), jordemoder (Earth Mother); traditional practices around birth in Denmark; how might the moon affect pregnancy and birth

00:53:56 - Birth and death was a normal part of Danish tradition and why is free birth on the rise? Corruption of midwifery through the legal system.

Follow Ann-Emelie on Instagram.

Related episodes:

* Whapio Bartlett: On Wisdom Keeping, with a Truly Legendary Midwife

* Hadhee Jah: Traditional midwifery is losing ground, a conversation with The Last Birthkeeper

* Carol Gautschi: Confronting Fear (and the Law) in Midwifery

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews.All of this for just $200 per month.

More ways to work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Clear & FreeMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

If you feel like homeopathy is baloney, you’re not alone. This was my general position on this centuries-old “science” until I met Rudi Verspoor, one of the world’s leading scholars on the work of Dr. Samuel Hahnemann, the founder of homeopathy. In collaboration with Steven Decker, Rudi undertook a decades-long re-examination of Hahnemann’s complete medical system — not merely homeopathy, but the broader framework Hahnemann himself called Heilkunst, meaning “the art of making whole.”As a result of the general failure of existing homeopaths and homeopathic schools to incorporate these insights, Rudi helped found the Hahnemann College for Heilkunst, which provides a four-year program internationally to train practitioners in Heilkunst. Rudi has written and co-written numerous books, including Homeopathy Renewed: A Sequential Approach to the Treatment of Chronic Illness, Homeopathy Re-examined: Beyond the Classical Paradigm, The Dynamic Legacy: Hahnemann from Homeopathy to Heilkunst, Autism: The Journey Back — Recovering the Self Through Heilkunst, and Scandal in Köthen: The Real Homeopathic Love Story, among others.At the heart of Verspoor’s work is the conviction that classical homeopathy, as widely practiced today, represents only a fragment of what Hahnemann truly envisioned — and that the complete system of Heilkunst, with its emphasis on causal prescribing, inherited disease, and the dynamic energy underlying health, offers a far more profound path to healing.Reach out to Rudi’s team if you want to work with one of the best: reception@homeopathy.com

00:13:00 - How Samuel Hahnemann’s work has been distorted over the centuries; sustantive power versus generative power (duality of life force); vitalism has been largely ignored in western medicine; palingenesis versus homeostasis; heilkhunst; physician versus medician; bio-logic

00:34:15 - Law of similars; case study of china bark and arsenic; wesen = essence (everything living thing and thought and diseases has a wesen); Hahnemann’s dilutional experiments that crossed over from material to dynamics

00:49:00 - In the world of dynamics, we can start to treat emotional and traumatic wesens; how did homeopathy become a practice of merely palliating symptoms? Why hasn’t homeopathy performed well in randomized control trials? Remedies for chronic miasms; remedies for “being pissed off”

01:17:30 - Vaccination versus immunization drawing from Steiner and the history of small pox inoculation; vaccinations ultimately weaken the immune system; original antigenic sin; homeoprophylaxis

Reach out to Rudi’s team if you want to work with one of the best: reception@homeopathy.com

References from this conversation:

* Rudi’s paper on chronic miasms (free after you create an account)

* 1796 white paper on homeopathy by Hahnemann

* THE DYNAMIC LEGACY: Hahnemann From Homeopathy to Heilkunst - An On-going Study of the Meaning in the Writings of Samuel Hahnemann within the Context of the Dynamic System of Thought Leading Thereby to a More Powerful System of Cure for Disease

Related episodes:

* Of Yarrow and Men: the Seasonal Alchemy of Huma Decay

Born Free Method: The Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews.All of this for just $200 per month.

More ways to work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Clear & FreeMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

Hadhee Jah is an Ayurvedic postpartum doula and birth sovereignty advocate originally from the Maldives, whose work bridges ancestral wisdom with the modern experience of pregnancy, birth, and postpartum recovery. Rooted deeply in her Maldivian heritage, she has dedicated her life to reclaiming traditional approaches to motherhood and postnatal care.Hadhee’s path into birth work was profoundly shaped by her own birth story. During her labor, she experienced a deep spiritual connection with her grandmother — a transformative moment that awakened her commitment to honoring the wisdom carried across generations. That personal experience, along with the challenges she navigated in her own postpartum journey, became the foundation for her calling.Drawing on Ayurvedic principles and Maldivian communal birth traditions, Hadhee champions practices such as warm oil massage, belly binding, and nurturing postpartum rituals that prioritize the full recovery and emotional wellbeing of new mothers. Central to her philosophy is the belief that the postpartum period is not merely a brief recovery phase, but a sacred, lifelong journey — a perspective she describes as “birth sovereignty,” guiding women to birth and mother with fierce self-trust.Hadhee has spoken extensively on the importance of community-based, grassroots maternal care, advocating for mothers to reclaim their autonomy within healthcare systems. She advises women on choosing the right midwife and navigating hospital environments to create empowering, personalized birth experiences.She is the author of the book, Postpartum Is Forever, in which she draws on her Maldivian heritage to present a vision of postnatal care rooted in ancestral wisdom and Ayurvedic tradition. The book argues for viewing postpartum not as a medical milestone to complete, but as an ongoing dimension of a woman’s identity and health.Connect with Hadhee through her website, Instagram, and Youtube. Purchase her book HERE.

00:06:45 - Birth is completely medicalized in the Maldives, but there used to be a rich history of traditional midwifery. Traditionally, it was typical to “warm” the women postpartum for 40 days. This wisdom is still being passed on secondarily, “the wisdom wants to find somebody to carry it forward”.00:12:36 - What did traditional midwifery used to look like in the Maldives? The way in which babies come into the world holds great import for the future of the world. You are gifted with the experience of giving birth!00:23:28 - What was the impulse that provoked policy change around midwifery in the Maldives and what lessons might be learn for the future of midwifery care in the United States?00:27:55 - Hadhee’s free birth, and why she ended up in the hospital despite her baby being born happy and healthy00:43:00 - What are the detriments to childbirth of a woman feeling watched or observed?00:47:02 - Ayurveda, belly binding, and yoni steamingConnect with Hadhee through her website, Instagram, and Youtube. Purchase her book HERE.

References from the conversation:

* The Last Birthkeeper (Hadhee’s 10-minute documentary)

* Train with Hadhee’s teacher to become an Ayurvedic postpartum doula

Related episodes:

* Carol Gautschi: Confronting Fear (and the Law) in Midwifery

* Who Holds the Wisdom? Learning to Transgress Hegemony in Midwifery and Maternity Care

* In the Waters of Rememberance: Honoring an Obstetrics Hero

Born Free Method: The Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews.All of this for just $200 per month.

More ways to work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Clear & FreeMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

Carol Gautschi is a midwife with over 50 years in practice, and she has walked a very unorthodox path.

Like many, Carol herself was plagued by fear of birth from an early age. She was sexually and physically molested separately by two different doctors in her first two births – and also given grossly inaccurate information postpartum that caused breastfeeding delay and hindered bonding. These experiences strongly planted seeds for the need of global reform, moving her to sense the sacredness and vulnerability of the moments during, before and after birth. Those moments had been stolen from her. She decided to hire a midwife for her third birth. The time spent with this midwife transformed her, helping her see that labor is wondrously spiritual, powerful, and a profoundly healthy force.

She believes that women are being robbed by a society that does not see to care about the uniqueness of this time, this right of passage, and that not treating it with tender, sensitive respect, women are doing themselves harm– more harm then we can imagine. From that moment on she believed that birth was the highest place a woman can go in her body on this planet. For Carol, becoming a midwife was a metamorphosis. She has served families as an empirical midwife and doula or Monitrice since 1978, a deeply humbling honor.In this conversation, we dive in to the many fears prohibiting quality midwifery care and birth support, from the law to our own traumas. Connect with Carol through her website or by email: classicalmidwife@gmail.com .

00:01:43 - Carol’s midwifery beginnings (and what makes her so special). How does it feel to be called an “elder midwife”? Carol shares that she originally didn’t even like women at the time that she was being called to midwifery. Carol was drawn to this work through abuse she experienced at the hands of an OBGYN in her own births.

00:13:30 - Birth story of a baby born into a toilet after an exam revealed the baby wasn’t even engaged to the cervix.

00:1710 - Developing a healthy relationship with fear. A story of a large baby, episiotomy, and divine intervention. We can holding space for birth, we are acting on behalf of the Holy Spirit. At some point, every midwife has to make the decision not to allow the spirit of fear to drive their behaviors.

00:40:40 - Many “believers” misrepresent Christianity and Jesus (Yeshua), and this inauthenticity of Yeshua’s teachings is a great source of fear that has no place in childbirth.

00:44:35 - How is fear shaping modern midwifery care? Jacob’s contension with God in the Bible as a source of direction when faced with a dead baby. Ethical versus lawful care. Fear versus discernment.

00:58:10 - We have a moral obligation to disobey unjust laws. To whom do we owe our obligation? What happens when the legal system hits back? Honesty and integrity always win. As a midwife, you have the right to refuse care to people who aren’t doing their best to take care of themselves.

To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews. All of this for just $200 per month.

More ways to work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Clear & Free Medical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

Andy Schoonover is the founder of CrowdHealth, a very unique alternative to conventional health insurance. They have a great track record for reimbursing on claims, and Andy compares his 20-odd refusals over the past 5 years to the 20% of denials that Americans with conventional insurance experience on the whole. How do they remain solvent if they are reimbursing for every claim? For starters, they don’t cover preventative care. They are truly filling the void that insurance is supposed to fill. With the savings that you can make by switching, you will have (a lot) more expendable income for changing your diet, lifestyle, and environment. This is an experiment in which I am participating with my family, as we just cancelled our health insurance policy in favor of a lower rate with CrowdHealth. And we still haven’t had to use it…

Visit CrowdHealth and see for yourself. If you decide to join, you get a discount with my code RILEY

00:06:20 - Health insurance companies are massively wealthy, and yet 3 million Americans are carrying $10,000 or more in medical debt. Health insurance companies look for every reason to short you on reimbursements. They deny around 20% of claims. You pay a premium every month (either directly or your employer takes it from your paycheck) and you owe co-payments and service fees and you owe a deductible before your insurance policy even kicks in. This why health insurance companies remain so wealthy and you find healthcare unaffordable. CrowdHealth on the other hand denies <0.1% of claims.

00:18:30 - What is the role of insurance to begin with? The government has been subsidizing health insurance premiums for the past decade and those subsidies are going away, thus your premiums are going up.

00:23:00 - How is CrowdHealth solving the issues being faced by the consumer? The money you save by transitioning to this less expensive model gives you more cash in hand to pay for those means of keeping yourself healthy without compromising tail risk for the rare catastrophe. By the way…it’s also cheaper to offer cash for your healthcare rather than using your insurance card.

00:29:45 - Physicians are often willing to charge you less if you pay in cash rather than relying on your health insurance policy because they get paid more.

00:36:20 - CrowdHealth covers childbirth, and won’t pay more than $3000 (which pales in comparison to the deductibles of conventional insurance). And they love home birth…They have had to tinker with maternity care coverage given that their average member age is 33 years, so LOTS of babies (and NICU admissions) have been covered.

00:43:00 - CrowdHealth offers two options: Bronze level or Black Swan. The former has a “deductible” of $500. That’s all. The latter is truly catastrophic coverage, but it the cheapest option on the planet for the rare, financial disasters that come as a consequence of health events. Visit CrowdHealth to check out the future of health insurance! If you decide to join, you get a discount with my code RILEY

To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews. All of this for just $200 per month.

More ways to work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Clear & Free Medical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

Edmund Knighton, Ph.D., is a seasoned educator, clinical psychologist, and somatic movement practitioner whose multidisciplinary career spans more than three decades. He has engaged through various capacities with Waldorf education for over 35 years, once even serving as the president of Rudolf Steiner College. Drawing on the teachings of Rudolf Steiner, the channeled material of “Ra” from the The Law of One, and somatic/transpersonal psychology, Edmund offers consulting for individuals, organizations, and families (including my own) committed to holistic growth.

You won’t find Edmund on social media, but you can reach out to him by email: Fifthwanderer@gmail.com if you ‘d like to have his support in your home.

In Part 1 of this series with Edmund, we discussed some of the basics around Steiner’s philosophy, the Waldorf pedagogy, a 3- and 4-fold approach to human wellbeing, and we started our venture into autism.

In Part 2, we dove deeper into “autism” but also offered an invitation to consider the extrasensory gifts displayed by many “autistic” children. We also covered vaccines.

In Part 3, we discussed the significance of the Holy Nights, a time of spiritual reflection and preparation leading up to Christmas as well as the days that follow.

In Part 4, we focus on men. What is men’s work? What does it mean to embrace your feminine? What is meant by femininity and masculinity? What does this have to do with sex, childbirth, and love-making?

00:11:15 - A rebirth experience in a men’s circle for a man to feel welcomed into the world (by other men) as his full, integral self can be a very expansive yet confronting experience. Men’s work can reveal challenging parts within us, and the work of a men’s circle is also to help integrate and synthesize these experiences rather than suppress them.

00:21:00 - Each of us carries a multitude of masculine and feminine energetics. How does your masculinity invite the feminine to dance? (within yourself, with your partner, etc.) To create a clear binary between the masculine and feminine is to dismiss the beautiful complexities of how they dance with one another.

00:34:45 - The role of a woman’s body is “containing” the blood and body of her baby is a masculine activity. Perhaps children pull their mother into motherhood, not the other way around. Men has a co-creative role from being to end in bringing a baby Earthside.

00:46:25 - By getting in touch with our feminine, us men can logarithmically augment our power. How powerful are you really if you can’t hold a man’s hand and make eye contact for 60 seconds without losing connection to your self? Hug-by as a replacement for rubgy among children (and men).

00:59:55 - A true, embodied warrior knows that their sword without a dagger is sharp and dangerous. This is a metaphor for what is called “toxic masculinity”. This is also an apt metaphor for how a man wields his penis within his expression of the lover archetype. This metaphor comes through the story of Sir Lancelot and Lady Guinevere along with Mary Magdelene and Christ.

01:04:17 - If a man can’t enjoying giving himself pleasure, how can he possibly expect to provide pleasure to others? Men spend very little time touching themselves apart from masturbation. Edmund describes simple self-care exercises that can help us nourish our own pleasure centers, starting with self-touch.

Edmund’s email: fifthwanderer@gmail.com

To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

References from the conversation:

* A Return to Eros: The Radical Experience of Being Fully Alive, by Marc Gafni

* The Ra Material

* Letters to a Young Poet, by Rainer Maria Rilke

* Iron John: A Book about Men, by Robert Bly

Related episodes:

* Edmund Knighton, PhD (Part 1) - Certainty in Uncertainty: Parenting, Presence, and the Pedagogy of the Soul

* Edmund Knighton, PhD (Part 2): Transcending Contemporary Views on Autism: Parenting, Perception, and the Future of Human Development

* Edmund Kinghton, PhD (Part 3): - The Holy Nights, Advent, and the Pursuit of Spiritual Freedom

* Blood-thirsty Goddesses, the Sexual Erotic, and a Shared Story of Value, with Hebrew Mystic Marc Gafni

* John Wineland: Embracing the Liberation Paradigm from Sacred Masculinity to Conscious Parenting

* What He Never Learned: Repair, Responsibility, and Men’s Silent Longing for Connection with Ted Riter

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews. All of this for just $200 per month.

Work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Born Free Method | Clear & Free Medical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

Dr. Lawrence “Larry” Palevsky is a New York-based, board-certified pediatrician known for his holistic and integrative approach to children’s health. With over 30 years of clinical experience, he combines conventional medical training with alternative wellness philosophies. His counseling generally focuses on the mother-baby dyad (or triad with inclusion of the father), and he is very critical of vaccines and the childhood vaccine schedule (but also a number of other elements that have become a routine part of pediatric care).

Find more of the good doctor at his website and Instagram.

00:14:15 - Dr. Palevsky’s nickname as a kid was Fat Mama Brown; he didn’t pursue holistic medicine, holistic medicine pursued him; value of critical thinking in medicine; the art of creating differential diagnoses

00:22:05 - What is the psychology behind pediatricians rejecting families from their practice for questioning vaccines? When you tell a lie often enough, it starts to become accepted as truth; the problems with “germ theory” using the hepatitis B vaccine as an example (more on Hep B later)

00:40:20 - Dr. Palevsky’s counseling to families is exactly what you would hope to receive from your pediatrician, but most pediatricians are merely offering vaccines at those early visits.

00:53:40 - What are some signs of a “sick baby” that might prompt urgent assessment by a pediatrician? Fevers below the age of 3 months, refusal to eat, constant crying, coughing, low activity, etc.

00:58:50 - Why it’s important to recognize the inherent trauma of childbirth; a newborn’s nervous system develops outside the womb more than inside; stop waking up your baby for feedings

01:03:10 - Hyperbilirubinemia and neonatal jaundice; nowadays, Dr. Pavelsky doesn’t often see jaundice in babies who don’t receive the Vitamin K shot or hepatitis B vaccine; AB blood type incompatibility is also a common association; bili thresholds and clinical signs that might be supported by a visit to your pediatrician

01:09:22 - More on Vitamin K and delayed cord clamping

01:11:25 - Hepatitis B vaccine

01:15:50 - Circumcision

01:20:25 - Vaginal birth versus cesarean and the role of chiropractics postnatally

01:26:15 - Tongue/lip ties: Are we overdoing laster therapies?

01:28:25 - Pros and cons of newborn screening

01:31:00 - Cradle cap

01:33:00 - Should you always treat a fever? It doesn’t always reflect infection.

Learn more about Dr. Larry Palevsky at his website and Instagram.

References from the conversation:

* Dr. Palevsky’s recent appearance on Alec Zeck’s podcast (deeper dive on Dr. Pavelsky’s vaccine views)

* House of God, by Samuel Shem

* Bio-K-Mulsion oral Vitamin K drops for newborns

Related episodes:

* Adam Blanning, MD: On Anthroposophical Medicine, Embracing Fever, and the Future of Integrative Medicine

* The real science from real practitioners on the safety of childhood vaccines with retired pediatrician Paul Thomas, MD

* Brendon Marotta: On Circumcision: A Cure Looking for a Disease

* The Secret Life of the Unborn Child: Dr. Thomas Verny on the Embodied Mind, Epigenetics, and Transgenerational Healing

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews. There is also a private community to interact with other members and a monthly’s men’s group for fathers or soon-to-be fathers. Lastly, you get direct support from me and Sara by call/text/email.

You get all of this for only $200 per month. Enroll now.

Any questions? Just shoot Nathan and Sara an email: support@bornfreemethod.com

Work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Born Free Method | Clear & FreeMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

Edmund Knighton, Ph.D., is a seasoned educator, clinical psychologist, and somatic movement practitioner whose multidisciplinary career spans more than three decades. He has engaged through various capacities with Waldorf education for over 35 years, once even serving as the president of Rudolf Steiner College. Drawing on the teachings of Rudolf Steiner, the channeled material of “Ra” from the The Law of One, and somatic/transpersonal psychology, Edmund offers consulting for individuals, organizations, and families (including my own) committed to holistic growth.

You won’t find Edmund on social media, but you can reach out to him by email: Fifthwanderer@gmail.com if you ‘d like to have his support in your home.

In Part 1 of this series with Edmund, we discussed some of the basics around Steiner’s philosophy, the Waldorf pedagogy, a 3- and 4-fold approach to human wellbeing, and we started our venture into autism.

In Part 2, we dove deeper into “autism” but also offered an invitation to consider the extrasensory gifts displayed by many “autistic” children. We also covered vaccines.

In this 3rd part, we will discuss the significance of the Holy Nights, a time of spiritual reflection and preparation leading up to Christmas as well as the days that follow. Edmund explains the Advent spiral and how such practices foster a deeper connection with nature and a sense of freedom. Edmund emphasizes that love can be experienced in both contentment and suffering, and that freedom is a practice developed through challenging experiences.

00:11:30 - How to connect to your heart, darkness retreats, the value of stillness and silence

00:24:00 - The 4 weeks leading up to the advent are dedicated to the mineral, plant, animal, and human realms, in that order. Christmas Eve (the first holy night) is the beginning of the Waldorf advent, an invitation to open and conduct a personal and interpersonal inventory of where you can refine your life. There is also an important connection to the Zodiak during these Holy Nights. The magical number 12.

December 24th - Adam and Eve day, celebration of Adama, the first human, neither male or female, opportunity to reflect on just being

December 25th - Birth Of Jesus, Christmas day, Angels take a step back as the guide to give human beings more freedom

December 26th and beyond (the Holy Nights) - move through the hierarchies, starting with the angels, then to the archangels, and so forth.

January 5th - The final Holy Night

January 6th - The Epiphany (which coincides with orthodox Christmas, but they aren’t the same)

00:46:10 - Studying the spiritual sciences requires us to ask: is this insight leading me closer to or further away from freedom? A lot of criticisms of Steiner’s way of speaking are due to the ways that German people in authority spoke back then along with customs of Victorian times. Is perfection possible?

00:59:55 - What is the purpose of the procession through the Holy Nights ritualistically and how do many Holy Nights practices fall short? It’s the path to freedom (e.g. becoming an ethical individual) through moral imagination, moral intuition, and moral inspiration beyond the 12 senses. This is actually the summation of child development in Steiner’s view.

01:10:00 - Celebrating Christmas with reverence

01:17:00 - Why are the Holidays so stressful? (beyond the obligations, familial stuff, etc.) It’s a part of the spiritual restlessness of this time of year. This is related to bloodlines: you have chosen your family and those with whom you are close as a means of stimulating spiritual growth.

01:26:10 - How do we expand our experience and skillset around the application of love? Love has far greater applications than many of us have been told. Even hatred is an effort to communicate love, albeit an intense and unskillful effort.

Join Edmund alongside Jared Pickard at their upcoming “Being Human” online event, a 12-week cooperative practice rooted in the work of Rudolf Steiner. You’ll be learning directly from Edmund, Asha Nayaswami, Gabby Reece, Eben Britton, Joel Salatin, and more! This cohort begins February 5th. Go HERE for more information!

Born Free Method: The Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

References from the conversation:

* Beginner’s guide to Jung’s depth psychology

* More insights on the weeks preceding the advent

* A deeper look at the 12 Holy Nights

Related episodes:

* Edmund Knighton, PhD (Part 1) - Certainty in Uncertainty: Parenting, Presence, and the Pedagogy of the Soul

* Edmund Knighton, PhD (Part 2): Transcending Contemporary Views on Autism: Parenting, Perception, and the Future of Human Development

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews.

* 12-month access is $750

* Lifetime access is $3997 (This option comes with some other perks as well, including direct support from me and Sara for life by phone/text/email)

* Fertility Deep Dive ($499) if you just want to focus on pre-conception planning and fertility, but this content is included in both of our other offerings above.

We have payment plans available for the lifetime package, and we have discounts available for any of our programs for students and birthworkers. Just shoot Nathan and Sara an email: support@bornfreemethod.com

Work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Born Free Method | Clear & Free Medical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

Disclaimer: Most of what I speak to in the world of human health isn’t universally accepted by many if any Western medicine or “holistic” practitioners. The former tend to be too steeped in reductive materialism. The latter more often than not struggle to define let alone practice “holism”. What follows in this essay is a different perspective on what is known as “flu season”, and I don’t even feel that it goes as deep as necessary to understand what we call “the flu”. I actually think my views in this very essay are in and of themselves still too materialistic, albeit a far cry from the allopathic, “Western” view of illness. In the age of social media and short attention spans, very few are able or willing to question dogma, and nearly everything that I read about in the conventional or alternative health spaces is self-masturbatory at best. This essay will please very few in its entirety, and I’m ok with that, because my true gnosis on this topic would hardly be valued by just about anybody, and I prefer not to shout into the void. I recommend you sit with any discomfort that arises upon read or listening to this essay. Maybe something new will emerge from our dialogue around these topics in the future if we can become more comfortable with the unknown.

Every autumn in the Northern Hemisphere, flu season arrives anew. Your local pharmacies and your doctors will begin offering a series of vaccines to “protect you” from some pathogen that isn’t even visible with an electron microscope. Generally speaking, these interventions are aimed to protect you from viruses.

The symptoms of the flu include fever, cough, sore throat, runny or stuffy nose, body aches, headaches, and fatigue. These are symptoms of this so-called “illness” that afflicts many every autumn.

Meanwhile, as I’m looking out my window, my lettuces, herbs, wildflowers, wisteria, and maple trees have all discarded their leaves, stems, and flowers, sacrificial lambs to Mother Earth. She is rich in activity during the winter months, alchemizing this organic matter to support the abundance of new life that will arise come spring. We get to witness this beautiful circle of life every year.

Humans, who have long held that they are separate from nature, fortunately do not have to offer up our limbs and organs every year to Mother Earth. Thank goodness…because nature is metal. Those poor flowers gave their lives in order for life to spring anew when Mother Earth goes back into dormancy in the warmer months.

But why wouldn’t humans be included in this sacrifice to the great Mother every year? Could the symptoms of influenza “infection” reflect our participation in this annual offering?

Of apple trees, gravity, and levity

Anybody walking upright understands gravity. The apple tree grows, matures, and produces fruit. When the fruit ripens, it falls to the Earth.

In fact, everything in the cosmos gravitates towards massive objects, the Earth notwithstanding. This is what keeps our moon and satellites in orbit around our planet and what keeps our planet in orbit around the sun.

All biological organisms feel the pull of gravity, and yet what distinguishes life from non-life is that being alive seems to defy gravity. Rudolf Steiner referred to this gravity-defying force as “levity”.

But in the fall, the force of levity can no longer compete with gravity, and the sunflowers bow down to the Earth. They disintegrate, turn brown, and their constituent parts combine again with Mother Earth under the pull of gravity. When levity is sufficient, plants, animals, and humans remain upright and alive.

Levity might therefore be considered synonymous in many ways with life force energy. The Chinese called it qi. The Vedic traditions referred to it as prana or kundalini. Esoteric science calls it “etheric force”. Original homeopathy refers to this as “generative power”. But perhaps it’s all roughly the same thing…

When humans reach the end of their lives here on Earth, gravity takes over and when the embers of levity are extinguished, we die. We, too, are a part of this circle of life.

What if “the flu” is not an illness?

As a preamble to what’s to come, I am not going to argue that people don’t “get sick”. I’m simply going to reframe what is perceived as an “illness” instead as a normal part of our experience here on Earth.

I’ve already outlined what happens during the autumn season, which coincides with the advent of the flu season. The natural world experiences some degree of decay, but not totally.

My yarrow no longer has tall stems with leaves and flowers. But the roots remain along with some hearty leaves. There is still some activity in the plant that keeps it alive over the cold, winter months. In the spring, however, my yarrow will emerge anew. But this reemergence requires this plant to have been cared for during the warmer months so that it can sustain itself over the harsh winter. In other words, yarrow that has plentiful levity or life force energy will survive despite its offering of a great deal of its biomass back to Mother Earth. This is an act of love. This is also why herbal medicines are most often used to make us feel stronger throughout nearly any illness (e.g. Echinacea, slippery elm, licorice root, marshmallow root, wild cherry bark, and nearly every remedy included in the Wildcraft board game which is great for kids!).

Recall the symptoms of influenza “infection”. You are heating up (fever). And you are expelling a bunch of dead matter (skin, tissue, cells) back into the environment (coughing, sneezing, runny nose). This sounds a lot like what my yarrow experienced, just not in a form that we recognize as decomposition.

This dead biomass that we are expelling consists of cell debris, fluid, electrolytes and the rest of it. When you cough up phlegm, this mucus contains the debris of cells lining your oral and nasal cavities and your deeper airways. When cells die, they break open, releasing all of their contents, which includes the genetic material inside the nuclei of these cells. Take note of this for later…

Influenza deaths

Not all of my perennials will return in the spring. Some of them sacrificed so much in the fall that they left themselves bereft of life force energy (levity). When spring arrives, they simply can’t overcome gravity’s pull down to Earth.

I propose that the same happens in humans. After all, which of us are most susceptible to hospitalization and death from influenza? Older humans.

Older humans are already feeling the effects of diminishing levity. They are beginning to walk with a hunch. Their skin is thinning. Their blood vessels are weakening, and blood is pooling in their lower extremities. This is called aging. There never will be a cure for this any more than there will be a cure for “autumn”.

When healthy people enter flu season, many get these symptoms, which is an expression of our offering to Mother Earth, and then they recover, often feeling stronger than they had felt prior to their “illness”.

When many of our older humans get “sick” during flu season, they end up dying. The same goes for unhealthy people. Gravity, which must be quite strong in the colder months, wins in its tension with levity. This is life process in action: when levity is overwhelmed by gravity, you die.

This is why I harp so much on eating real foods, drinking living water, getting quality sleep, having good sex, connecting deeply with loved ones, and not putting poisons into your body otherwise: these acts of love for one’s self nourish your life force energy.

“I tested positive for COVID/the flu/etc.”

This is where things get uncomfortable.

You had flu-like symptoms. You went to urgent care. They swabbed your nose. The result was positive for [fill in the blank].

We have been conditioned to believe that an outside contagion made us sick, which is why the vaccines your doctor have offered you all of these years make sense. They are meant to protect you from these outside invaders which will kill you.

It’s hard to argue that point because they swabbed you and detected the bad guy, in this case influenza.

It’s possible that this is the case but unlikely.

Remember that the cells that die and then are coughed up and expectorated break open and release their genetic nuclear contents. I asked you to remember that. Keep it in mind going forward.

Our genetic material is arranged across 46 chromosomes, which are thought to be coiled chains of chemical base pairs called nucleotides. This is known as your “genome”. Across this genome, there are an estimated 3 billion nucleotides, and these 3 billion nucleotides come in four forms: adenine, thymine, guanine, and cytosine. The sequence of these nucleotides is going to be slightly different for every man, woman, and child. Plants, fungi, animals, and bacteria also have a genome, and it’s different from humans but not by much.

The story goes that groups of these nucleotides (genes) are transcribed into RNA which is translated into proteins. The nucleotides of RNA also come in four forms: adenylate, uridylate, guanylate, and cytidylate. Influenza A and B both have an estimated 14,000 nucleotides of the RNA variety.

Everybody knows that the human genome was fully sequenced 20 years ago, right?

Well…no. It hasn’t. Efforts for this massive undertaking began in 1990 through the Human Genome Project. Multiple drafts of the human genome have been published but at least 8% of the sequence was still unaccounted for for decades. There are still multiple errors, and the genetic material used to complete the sequence was from multiple genetic donors. Over the past few years, it is now thought that we might have the technology to sequence the entire human genome, but this is the same story that has been rehashed for decades. Indeed, as of 2026, the Telomere-to-Telomere (T2T) Consortium claims to have closed the 8% gap through long-read sequencing, but there are still unquestionably and admittedly a number of errors. Every time that we have heard a researcher claim to have sequenced the entire human genome (2001, 2003, 2022, etc.) it has been followed up with “…well, not quite”.

If humans are nearly identical and even chimpanzees and humans are 99% identical genetically, how can we ever assume that any fragment of DNA (or RNA) is from a plant, animal, human, or even a virus? Given that each of us has a distinct genetic makeup, we are far from completing this mission.

Swabs for viruses are likely useless

Given that there are thought to be around 3 billion nucleotides in the human genome and that we admittedly didn’t (and probably still don’t) know about 8% of the sequence, that’s 240 million spots in the code that we simply aren’t aware of. The influenza A genome is only ~14,000 nucleotides, so it’s a big leap to say that the swab they stuck up your nose is detecting something foreign because without a copy of any human genome sequence let alone your own personal genome, we don’t have anything to compare the swab to.

These viral swabs work in one of two ways: rapid antigen test or polymerase chain reaction (PCR).

Rapid antigen test: Goo is taken from your nose or airways and dipped into a buffer that breaks open a virus to release its proteins (“antigens”). The liquid is then added to a test strip coated with antibodies specific to these antigens. If proteins “stick” to the antibodies, then you have a match and the test is reported positive. The issue with this test is that it doesn’t work if there isn’t enough virus in the sample (“viral load”) and thus has a high false negative rate, so the PCR test is considered more accurate.

PCR: Same collection process only this time the lab uses polymerase to photocopy any genetic material present in the sample (rather than searching for antigens). If X number of cycles of this photocopying get you a sequence that is thought to be unique to influenza A, then your result will be reported as positive for influenza infection.

There are other molecular techniques that are used, but this process of swabbing and diagnosing isn’t new, and understanding its shortcomings really matters.

Distinguishing self from other is impossible if I don’t know your genomic sequence

I have heard the following analogy from Tom Cowan, MD, to illustrate why we need to know the human genomic sequence for this viral screening process to make sense.

If I placed a hand grenade inside a metal garbage can with a copy of War and Peace, the book would explode into a billion tiny pieces. If I then asked my wife to arrange those tiny pieces into War and Peace, it wouldn’t be possible unless she had a copy for comparison’s sake. Otherwise, she would probably be able to form a bunch of coherent sentences and maybe even create a story from those sentences but there would probably be a lot of pieces left over, and we certainly wouldn’t have a complete copy of War and Peace.

This analogy is fitting because genetic material from the dead cells that are sloughing off in your airways is also floating around in those same passageways as this supposed viral RNA that is being caught by the swab and then run through PCR multiple times.

If the viral RNA sequence is A-U-G-C, how can we be sure that that sequence isn’t simply a fragment of our own genome?

With the human genome still a mystery to “science”, assigning causation to an external virus for your flu-like symptoms is ridiculous. It may be useful in the future, as the idea is compelling, but we don’t yet have a reliable copy of the human genome to accurately distinguish human genetic material from viral.

By the way, the same rationalization can be made against the COVID-19 swabs that people continue to stockpile or the HPV swabs that women receive at their well-woman visits. Is this innate genetic material or a genetic sequence from an outside invader (e.g. COVID, human papilloma virus)?

Can you catch a cold?

There is one additional element of this conversation that muddies the waters of my argument.

If you went home for the holidays, there was likely a small child who had a runny nose and a cough. You are getting coughed on, spit on, and booger-ed on for the entire visit. To nobody’s surprise you developed flu-like symptoms in the days after your Christmas dinner.

How did this happen? Did the child spread the virus to you? After all, viruses like influenza are well-known to jump from person-to-person or sippy cup to person. That’s how it works, right? Fortunately, this has been studied.

Nowadays, “human challenge trials” are used to “prove” that viruses are spread in this way. These trials are conducted in healthy, young volunteers in an inpatient environment with HEPA-filtered air in negative-pressure rooms. A virus from a sick person is “isolated and purified” (this is presumably done through a series of laughable steps, but more on that another time) and administered through intranasal drops/sprays to the healthy volunteers.

The result? Unvaccinated individuals have a roughly 25% chance of developing flu-like symptoms when receiving this so-called “viral” nasal spray.

Why not 100% you ask? Well, authors hypothesized that either the air was too humid, not enough viral particles were administered, or that people must not be as contagious once they develop symptoms.

Before these modern trials, there were studies that took the mucus, throat washings, respiratory secretions, and even blood from people with the flu and administered them directly to healthy volunteers.

The first and most cited are the Rosenau Experiments (1918-1919). Secretions and blood of people dying from the flu were rubbed into healthy volunteers’ eyes. None of the healthy volunteers got sick. Critics argued that the healthy volunteers must already have developed immunity as a consequence of prior exposure.

The second was a study conducted by Alphonse Dochez (1930). Nasal washings of patients with active colds were passed through a Berkefeld filter, which was thought to capture all particles large than viruses. This filtrate was then administered into the noses of healthy people and chimpanzees. The result: some of the humans and chimps developed symptoms.

The third commonly cited studies are known as the Common Cold Units (CCU) Studies (1940s-1980s). Nasal washings from sick patients were administered to healthy volunteers. 30-50% of the healthy volunteers developed symptoms. The researchers had expected more illness but chalked up their findings to “raw” secretions being too variable in viral load.

The point of these studies is not to prove my point but to help you appreciate how the notion that sick people contaminate healthy people is unimpressive at best. Not everybody exposed to a sick person gets “sick”. In my household, my kids get sick all the time. Sometimes my wife develops symptoms; sometimes I develop symptoms. It’s not as simple as avoiding their grubby fingers. So it’s not exactly a causative relationship.

It’s far more likely in my view that something triggers living organisms to fall apart a little bit in the colder months. A stressor might be the catalyst (the holidays are stressful), excessive drinking might be the culprit (most people drink a lot of alcohol during the holidays to cope with the stress), and the myriad of activities and obligations during the holidays leads to a lack of quality sleep (how’s your back doing after that air mattress experience at your in-laws?).

I think it’s just as likely that “catching a cold” happens when non-sick people hang around sick people as a form a co-resonance. Being in proximity with a sick person reminds a not-sick person’s energetic body that it’s time to make an offering, triggering the onset of symptoms that leads to decomposition of some of our tissues, and then this now sick person enters in resonance with a new not-sick person, and they receive the energetic signal to do the same. This type of chain reaction is hard to measure but it’s no better or worse than our conventional model of the flu given the myriad of questions around this elusive mysterious virus thing.

There doesn’t need to be an answer here, but I think it’s naive to think that we can become immune to the forces of nature if we avoid social interaction, cover our faces with masks, and inject a bunch of stuff through a needle into our arms. These could delay the onset of our annual falling part or even blunt the symptoms, but the process of falling to pieces (again: gravity overwhelming levity) could also just be seen as a part of being human.

You don’t have the flu. You are human.

You have symptoms of the flu, meaning the effects of gravity are having a greater influence on you now than they did at the 4th of July party. Plants don’t have a choice in the matter. Gravity has an obvious effect on the natural world. Humans are also a part of - and rely on - the natural world for their survival, so they, too, experience some of this tension between levity and gravity.

If we chalk this experience up to an outside viral contagion, then vaccines, nasal swabs, masks, and social isolation do, indeed, make sense.

But if the holes in the story that I’ve shown you are even a little bit interesting, then consider every autumn as an invitation to do an inventory on your life.

Have you been sleeping well?Have you been eating nutritious foods?Have you been drinking clean water? Breathing clean air?Have you been talking about hard things or suppressing your feelings?Have you been having sex that transcends beyond mere physical attraction?Have you been taking time for solitude and rest?Have you been grateful for being alive?Have you been drinking, smoking, or snorting too many drugs?Have you been nurturing healthy relationships and community?Have you been exercising too little? Too much?

Your answers to these questions will directly affect your life force energy. They can help your kundalini rise or fall. They can nourish or diminish your generative power.

I also can’t recommend enough against pharmaceuticals. Some medications may take away your symptoms short term but they interfere with your ability to get back to center. Allopathic means of keeping us healthy certainly can help with symptoms, but surgeries and pharmaceuticals weaken our generative power, meaning they make you feel as if they have fixed something but they’ve damaged your ability to sustain the influences of gravity over the long-haul.

The process of expelling old matter and decomposing a little bit (and not dying as a result) is a virtue. The symptoms are uncomfortable but they are happening for a reason. The yarrow in my backyard was born with the condition that it would lie dormant for 6 months of the year. This makes it possible to have healthy yarrow during the summer months. And as with my yarrow, the cold, winter months are a time to consider slowing down, resting, digesting, and becoming more dormant.

My wife asked me a month or so ago: Why do people all seem to get sick late in the fall if it’s not from viruses? It was this question that ultimately prompted this essay. I used to resist taking my foot off the accelerator of life, and often it would take a 3-4 day period of “the flu” to park me prostrate. It was an invitation to heal.

Call it what you will: getting sick or making an offering to Mother Earth. But the “illness” that you are experiencing is a part of being a whole human. Supporting your health through the lens of holism is the only way to survive as it generates levity, or life force energy. Salvation will likely never be found through vaccines and fever-reducers because perhaps there is nothing to be saved from.

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews.

* 12-month access is $750

* Lifetime access is $3997 (This option comes with some other perks as well, including direct support from me and Sara for life by phone/text/email)

* Fertility Deep Dive ($499) if you just want to focus on pre-conception planning and fertility, but this content is included in both of our other offerings above.

We have payment plans available for the lifetime package, and we have discounts available for any of our programs for students and birthworkers. Just shoot Nathan and Sara an email: support@bornfreemethod.com

Work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Born Free Method | Clear & Free

Medical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.

Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

I get this question a lot: What is a hysterectomy?

Worse yet, most women who are facing this procedure don’t understand what parts are being removed and if this surgery is even necessary.

This is a big topic, but this short solo cast will provide the basics for you to decode the language of an operative note and the layman’s speak for what a surgeon might be offering and why.

The first hysterectomy was successfully performed in the 19th century using vaginal or abdominal incisions. The first laparoscopic hysterectomy in 1989.

Nowadays, the hysterectomy (removal of the uterus) is the 2nd most common surgery performed in women in the United States. There are ~500,000 hysterectomies performed annually in the United States and 1.3 million c-sections. Compare these number two the two next most common surgeries - for men or women - total knee replacement (719,000 performed annually) and reduction of fracture (671,000 performed annually).

In this solo cast, I will cover common indications for hysterectomy and touch on some alternatives. I’ll also cover the basic anatomy of the female reproductive system.

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews.

* 12-month access is $750

* Lifetime access is $3997 (This option comes with some other perks as well, including direct support from me and Sara for life by phone/text/email)

* Fertility Deep Dive ($499) if you just want to focus on pre-conception planning and fertility, but this content is included in both of our other offerings above.

We have payment plans available for the lifetime package, and we have discounts available for any of our programs for students and birthworkers. Just shoot Nathan and Sara an email: support@bornfreemethod.com

Work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Born Free Method | Clear & Free

Medical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.

Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

The organizing team for the 2026 Born Free Twins-Breech Gathering convened in Austin, TX, to set foot at Lucky Arrow Retreat and elsewhere in Austin to begin the long and arduous process of exploring what we hope to achieve at the 3rd twins-breech gathering. This is more than a conference…it’s an invitation to lean into the discomfort required to change maternity care.

I’m joined in this dialogue in this episode by two of my soul family. Sevonna Brown is a reproductive justice worker whose global retreats and sacred care restore wholeness across birth, medicine, and the ceremony of becoming. Haize Hawke is a traditional midwife, master doula, and spiritual mentor. She cares for young women and families, guiding them on the ways of womb wisdom. Sevonna and Haize are two critical members of our organizing team alongside myself, Sara Rosser, CPM, and Sarah Tuck, CPM.

This is the first of several conversations that we will be sharing as we begin to weave this gathering together, which requires us to be led as much by our hearts as by our heads. FYI: The event has already sold out, but what you’ll learn from this conversation is that we aren’t focused solely on putting together a beautiful experience in 2026. We are planning for what is to come in the wake of the 2026 gathering, with many more events in the future. This conversation is for everybody engaged in this work, not exclusively for those who will be attending in 2026.

Connect with Sevonna @sanctuarymedicine Connect with Mama Haize @iamhaizehawke

00:07:42 - What one person sees as a necessary action another person might see as misconduct. Bridging the gap (racially, within birthwork, and otherwise) requires nonviolent communication and present listening, pedagogy, and praxis. Decolonizing birth requires that we decolonize ousrselves. What are the emotional acupuncture points relevant to improving on this work?

00:17:00 - Bridging division and racism in birthwork. How must we find a means to coexist alongside patriarchy in obstetrics? What are our barometers of power and privilege? Sometimes what is viewed as segregation actually reflects a choice among those who find safety through affinity. The pedagogy of the 2026 gathering is based in ceremony and grounding. Bell Hooks saw multi-cultural education as a path to freedom empowering students to transgress oppressive norms to achieve self-actualization. We feel that this is the means by which we can we move from mere tolerance to genuine change.

00:27:00 - Acts of righteousness by one person could be experienced as an act of violence by others. Desegregation is not the purpose of the 2026 gathering. We must excercise desegregation in our everyday lives before a physical convening.

00:33:35 - Calls to action in preparation for this convening to transgress racism, not least of which is to read about granny midwives.

00:41:30 - We all must get clear on what we can offer as individuals and our own personal limitations. This gathering is not for passive passengers. We need engagement.

00:46:30 - Who is holding the wisdom in this space? We must begin to prune away the decentralization of midwifery and even certain voices in place of other important voices. This convening is an invitation to reflect on what we do to change maternity care. There is tremendous value in approaching this work with a beginner’s mind…

00:55:00 - Discomfort is inevitable and necessary for growth. You are responsible for your own growth and comfort. What we are organizing for the 2026 event is risky. The biggest risk is a willingness to fail and to fall. All of oyur self-judgment and judgment of others will be brought to the surface. This work is only possible through fierce love.

01:10:00 - A call for the collective to remember that at some point all of our lineages we were made possible through the work of a midwife, likely a granny a midwife, though nowadays this wisdom has been appropriated by the obstetrics model.

01:17:55 - is it possible to honor traditional midwifery through an event that is inclusive of obstetricians? Yes. What we witnessed in 2024 was birthworkers of all types Falling to their knees in recognition of how the modern maternity care system has failed families.

References from the conversation:

* Alok Vaid-Menon

* Biddy Mason Museum in Los Angeles

* All About Love, by Bell Hooks

* Teaching to Transgress, by Bell Hooks

* Emergent Strategy: Shaping Change, Changing Worlds, by Adrienne Maree Brown

* Listen to Me Good: The Story of an Alabama Midwife, by Margaret Charles Smith and Linda Janet Holmes

* Words of Fire: An Anthology of African-American Feminist Thought, edited by Beverly Guy-Sheftall

* Reproductive Justice: An Introduction, by Loretta Ross

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews.

* 12-month access is $750

* Lifetime access is $3997 (This option comes with some other perks as well, including direct support from me and Sara for life by phone/text/email)

* Fertility Deep Dive ($499) if you just want to focus on pre-conception planning and fertility, but this content is included in both of our other offerings above.

We have payment plans available for the lifetime package, and we have discounts available for any of our programs for students and birthworkers. Just shoot Nathan and Sara an email: support@bornfreemethod.com

Work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Born Free Method | Clear & Free

Medical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.

Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

Edmund Knighton, Ph.D., is a seasoned educator, clinical psychologist, and somatic movement practitioner whose multidisciplinary career spans more than three decades. He has engaged through various capacities with Waldorf education for over 35 years, once even serving as the president of Rudolf Steiner College. Drawing on the teachings of Rudolf Steiner, the channeled material of “Ra” from the The Law of One, and somatic/transpersonal psychology, Edmund offers consulting for individuals, organizations, and families (including my own) committed to holistic growth.

Disclaimer: Edmund is the father of a 14-year old, Liam, who was born with “autism” and trisomy 21 (Down syndrome).

You won’t find Edmund on social media, but you can reach out to him by email: Fifthwanderer@gmail.com if you ‘d like to have his support in your home.

In Part 1 of this series with Edmund, we discussed some of the basics around Steiner’s philosophy, the Waldorf pedagogy, a 3- and 4-fold approach to human wellbeing, and we started our venture into autism.

In Part 2, we dive deeper into the challenges of “autism” but also offer an invitation to broaden our understanding and appreciation of neurodivergence. If there is a path to perfection, do the extrasensory gifts of some “autistic” children suggest that this poorly understood condition may reflect that they are closer to perfection than neurotypical people? Naturally, we also cover vaccines and there is some health push back on the notion that our physical body is “merely a meatsuit”.

00:09:00 - There’s no such thing as autism…there are only human beings with infinite possibilities and unique destinies. “Austism” is a label, and labeling children often limits our capacities to support them. If we think we know who our child is, then we shut down the doors of perception. Salutogenesis.

00:16:45 - We are in the consciousness-soul epoch (“age of auto-ism”) in which a main attribute is antipathy between individuals. We must become able to live with uncertainty. Steiner teaches that there are twelve senses not five. Edmund’s son is telepathic. Do nonverbal kids have the advantage of being able to listen with their hearts? Autism forces us to consider how we might operate at a thought mantra level

00:30:30 - The gift of free will and conscious direction of our consciousness. Are neurodivergent human beings more “evolved” than neurotypical individuals? What does “perfection” mean from the standpoint of esoteric science? Perhaps autistic children are closer to perfection than their neurotypical peers…

00:41:50 - A more nuanced, spiritual take on vaccines and the human being (a complex conversation distilled to a thimble). Every thought, every relationship that we have with every material used to produce and action imparted to inject a vaccine has a powerful effect on a vaccine. The same line of thinking can be applied to assisted reproductive technology, which is a focus of perinatal psychology.

00:52:50 - If vaccines alone cause this condition we call “autism”, and if autism is indeed a “disability”, then why shouldn’t we be seeking to make everybody autistic through vaccines?

01:02:20 - Our physical body is the most spiritual gift that we have, which is why it’s critical to be discerning of what enters your body. Division within the MAHA movement. The illusory condition of time permits the capacity for mastery. 7 is a sacred number (7 chakras, 7 life processes…but 7 days in a week?) Because the heart has a rhythm (not a beat), it helps you perceive the quality of time rather than the quantity of time. Dewey Larson’s qualitative physics of time-space. Advice for sustaining humanity through cohesion versus separation (every moment contains love).

Born Free Method: The Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

References from the conversation:

* Feeling into music versus listening to the words. Practice with these two songs (unless you speak Hebrew):

* Ana Bekoach, performed by Yossi Azulay

* Hashkiveinu, performed by Magda Fishman

* The Calendar of the Soul (Pusch translation), by Rudolf Steiner

* Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience, by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi

* Martin Seligman’s work related to positive psychology

* Our Twelve Senses: How Healthy Senses Refresh the Soul, by Albert Soesman

* Faust, a 2-part tragic play, by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

* The Physics of Dewey Larson

* Klaus Käppeli

* The Rosenthal Effect (aka the Pygmalion Effect)

* Telepathy Tapes

Related episodes:

* The Secret Life of the Unborn Child: Dr. Thomas Verny on the Embodied Mind, Epigenetics, and Transgenerational Healing

* Edmund Knighton, PhD (Part 1): Certainty in Uncertainty: Parenting, Presence, and the Pedagogy of the Soul

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews.

* 12-month access is $750

* Lifetime access is $3997 (This option comes with some other perks as well, including direct support from me and Sara for life by phone/text/email)

* Fertility Deep Dive ($499) if you just want to focus on pre-conception planning and fertility, but this content is included in both of our other offerings above.

We have payment plans available for the lifetime package, and we have discounts available for any of our programs for students and birthworkers. Just shoot Nathan and Sara an email: support@bornfreemethod.com

Work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Born Free Method | Clear & Free | Twins-BreechMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

The 2026 Born Free Twins-Breech Conference is coming to Austin, TX, November 12-15, 2026, and tickets go on sale Black Friday, November 28th, 2025 at midnight! There are a limited number of tickets for sale at the early bird pricing! To take advantage you’ll have to be quick, and you’ll need the code JUICYWORM26 at checkout!

Nicole Calloway Rankins, MD, MPH is a board-certified OB/GYN and hospital-based hospitalist who focuses on providing evidence-based support for families to have empowered hospital births. She is the host of the Birth With Power podcast—formerly All About Pregnancy & Birth. Dr. Rankins also teaches an online Birth Preparation Course. She shares her story of her own c-section with inadequate anesthesia and the challenges of supporting her own child in the neonatal intensive care unit (NICU).

Find Dr. Rankins’ free guides and other resources at her website. She can also be found on Instagram @drnicolerankins .

00:16:45 - The pros and cons of hospitalist medicine. You get reeeeally good at building trust and making decisions quickly. Feeling safe is different from people doing things to you to “keep” you safe. Naming fears can be powerful as the patient. Having hard conversations around birth preferences ideally happens long before your labor begins.

00:26:44 - Dr. Rankins shares how the experience of a mother dying in her care and how the memory will forever stay with her as a reminder that this work isn’t always joyful. And occasionally “bad outcomes” take place without any way to prevent them. How can we optimize the experience for a mother who experiences a stillbirth or similar outcome?

00:35:40 - Dr. Rankins shares her experience with a child in the NICU for duodenal atresia and experiencing a c-section with a malfunctioning epidural. Fathers are often left out of the conversations through difficult hospital experiences.

00:42:15 - Physicians aren’t necessarily taught to humanize birth. Sometimes humanizing childbirth starts with remembering that we ourselves, as practitioners, are human, and this can be as easy as taking a breath! Nathan shares a story of a baby born without a trachea who is made comfortable to die shortly after birth and the challenge of being present with death.

00:50:00 - Advice for families that transfer from home to the hospital and don’t prefer any interventions whatsoever. Dr. Rankins visits local birth centers so that birthworkers in the community are familiar with her and her practice. You have the right to decline any intervention as long as you’re informed about the risks, benefits, and implications of all options on the table. Dr. Nicole weighs in on Vitamin K, Rhogam, and other common interventions offered throughout prenatal care and childbirth. We must avoid imposing our value system on that of others.

00:58:10 - We can’t advocate for autonomy in reproductive rights but not for a woman to give birth on her own terms. You either believe in autonomy or you don’t. How do you respond if a woman says “I’d rather die than have a c-section”? What is coercive language. In counseling around repeat c-sections, OBGYNs often neglect to describe the challenges of emergency c-section after multiple abdominal surgeries due to scar tissue

01:06:45 - Dr. Rankins’ thoughts on continuous fetal monitoring versus intermittent auscultation and lack of validation of this technology

01:11:00 - Dr. Rankins weighs in on the Hepatitis b vaccine, pediatricians, veering from the vaccine schedule, polio vs ddt neurotoxicity, package inserts, removing the word “allow” from our counseling.

Find Dr. Rankins’ free guides and other resources at her website. She can also be found on Instagram @drnicolerankins .

Born Free Method: The Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

References from the conversation:

* Hepatitis B vaccine package insert from FDA website

* Great episode from Nicole’s podcast about the NICU experience in conversation with neonatologist Terri Major-Kincade, MD

* The Spirit Catches You and You Fall Down, by Anne Fadiman

* Cesarean Section: An American History of Risk, Technology, and Consequence, by Jacqueline Wolf, PhD

Related episodes:

* #80 - Jacqueline Wolf, PhD: On the Sordid History of C-Section in the U.S.

* One Womb, Two Stories: The Echo of What Was and the Cry of What Is (Trigger warning: this is a story of homebirth and then a subsequent rainbow baby!)

* Babies Need to Feel Safe with Nathan Riley, MD, FACOG

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

When we aren’t hosting gatherings to re-skill the birth workforce in twins/breech, we are supporting families and birthworkers through this massive online platform/community!

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews.

* 12-month access is $750

* Lifetime access is $3997 (This option comes with some other perks as well, including direct support from me and Sara for life by phone/text/email)

* Fertility Deep Dive ($499) if you just want to focus on pre-conception planning and fertility, but this content is included in both of our other offerings above.

We have payment plans available for the lifetime package, and we have discounts available for any of our programs for students and birthworkers. Just shoot Nathan and Sara an email: support@bornfreemethod.com

Work with Nathan:

Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Born Free Method | Clear & Free | Twins-Breech

Medical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.

Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

Thomas R. Verny, MD, is a psychiatrist, writer, poet, and one of the pioneers in the field of prenatal and perinatal psychology. Born in 1936 in Bratislava (then Czechoslovakia), Dr. Verny immigrated to Canada, where he became known for exploring how experiences before and shortly after birth shape psychological development.

He co-founded the Association for Pre- and Perinatal Psychology and Health (APPPAH) in 1983 and authored the widely influential book The Secret Life of the Unborn Child (1981, with John Kelly), which brought prenatal psychology into mainstream awareness. Dr. Verny’s later works, including The Embodied Mind (2021), continue his interest in the mind-body connection, consciousness, and the role of memory and biology in human behavior.

Dr. Verny has taught at Harvard University, the University of Toronto, and York University, and continues to lecture internationally on early development, consciousness, and holistic approaches to psychology.

All of Dr. Verny’s work can be found at his website.

00:10:00 - what is pre-/perinatal psychology? Does consciousness precede or succeed childbirth? The ways in which babies are conceived and birthed may matter far more than many would admit. Asking good questions is the hallmark of the scientific method, but asking questions is largely disincentivized nowadays

00:19:10 - Unborn babies respond to sound, stress, etc, especially later in pregnancy. Does this imply consciousness or merely primitive reflexes? The elephant in the room: if my baby is conscious in the womb, how does this inform abortion policy?

00:33:18 - The goal of a living mother/baby after childbirth is an unacceptably shortsighted goal in maternity care.

00:38:16 - The impacts of IVF/IUI on the psyche of the unborn child, Stan Grof’s perinatal matrices theory

00:46:50 - C-section may imprint on that child the idea that “I can’t do this on my own”…might this be reflected in a society where so many are so willing to outsource their power in their own birth ? In order to move forward with healing we must look backward into our biographies. Working on the symptoms through behavioral therapy isn’t sufficient.

00:53:10 - How does trans generational trauma or imprinting work? Bonding with your children begins while the child is still in the womb.

01:07:48 - It’s sometimes difficult to differentiate between the biological and psychological (more on trauma transference)

01:16:30 - Children aren’t inherently “good” or “bad” because their “behaviors” may be an expression of a story from their lineage that has been suppressed

01:19:10 - How might psychedelics be useful as therapies in resolving birth trauma?

All of Dr. Verny’s work can be found at his website.

Born Free Method: The Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

References from the conversation:

* Fetal Personhood and Reproductive Criminalization —Implications for Patients, Clinicians, and Public Health (2025)

* Dr. Verny’s interview with Gerlinda Metz, PhD

* Ancestral exposure to stress epigenetically programs preterm birth risk and adverse maternal and newborn outcomes (2014)

* DUTCH Famine Study (2013)

* Methylation of the oxytocin receptor gene mediates the effect of adversity on negative schemas and depression (2016)

* RUPERT LINDER’s case studies on psychotherapy and mitigation of pregnancy risks such as preterm birth

* Holocaust Exposure Induced Intergenerational Effects on FKBP5 Methylation (2016)

* Oxytocin versus Pitocin®: Induction of Labor and a World Without Love (3-part essay series)

* Dr. Verny interviews Klaus Käppeli (“Test Tube Babies Remember”)

* Dr. Verny interviews Gerlinde Metz (“The Transgenerational Transmission of Stress”)

Related episodes:

* Edmund Knighton, PhD (Part 1): Certainty in Uncertainty: Parenting, Presence, and the Pedagogy of the Soul

* My first conversation Q&A with Thomas Verny from our Born Free Method community

* In the Waters of Rememberance: Honoring an Obstetrics Hero

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews.

* 12-month access is $750

* Lifetime access is $3997 (This option comes with some other perks as well, including direct support from me and Sara for life by phone/text/email)

* Fertility Deep Dive ($499) if you just want to focus on pre-conception planning and fertility, but this content is included in both of our other offerings above.

We have payment plans available for the lifetime package, and we have discounts available for any of our programs for students and birthworkers. Just shoot Nathan and Sara an email: support@bornfreemethod.com

Work with Nathan:

Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Born Free Method | Clear & Free | Twins-Breech

Medical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.

Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

Edmund Knighton, Ph.D., is a seasoned educator, clinical psyachologist, and somatic movement practitioner whose multidisciplinary career spans more than three decades. He has engaged through various capacities with Waldorf education for over 35 years, once even serving as the president of Rudolf Steiner College. Drawing on the teachings of Rudolf Steiner, the channeled material of “Ra” from the The Law of One, and somatic/transpersonal psychology, Edmund offers consulting for individuals, organizations, and families (including my own) committed to holistic growth.

You won’t find Edmund on social media, but you can reach out to him by email: Fifthwanderer@gmail.com if you ‘d like to have his support in your home.

In Part 1 of this series with Edmund, we discuss some of the basics around Steiner’s philosophy, the Waldorf pedagogy, a 3- and 4-fold approach to human wellbeing, and we start our venture into autism.

[00:11:26] - The myth of normal. No…you’re not crazy. Edmund’s conscious conception of his son Liam. Edmund shares the immediate sense of relief (!!) they felt in discovering that Liam had Down Syndrome (Trisomy 21) along with the challenges of raising him which later was a hard strain on his marriage

[00:22:07] - Edmund expands on the divine nature of Liam’s conception and why the Trisomy 21 diagnosis didn’t provoke fear or despair. Edmund offers a mantra firm Steiner for relaxing into being certain about uncertainty. “Ruchshau” and mini deaths as important practice for death at the end of life.

[00:33:40] - The best explanation of Rudolf Steiner’s work that you will ever hear in as few words as possible. The essence of Waldorf education was born out of the spiritual failings of world reconstruction post-WWI. Likewise for biodynamic farming.

[00:41:08] - A lot of work and healing starts in our dreams. Literally. Edmund met Steiner in a dream which prompted him to accept Steiner as a teacher. Steiner is hard for many but it was like drinking mother’s milk for Edmund, who also learns from Ra, the “Sun” God.

[00:45:38] - Definition of the four-fold human: physical, etheric (life), astral (feeling/soul), and Ego bodies. What informs the growth and shape of the physical body? 7-year cycles and the development of a human. Who is to say that Steienr was right about everything? Pedagogical laws support ways to “teach” children based on their age and specific needs. Chaos at a higher level is lawful motion. When your children are hitting you this is an attempt at loving. The absence of love is indifference. Anger wakes us up to our own needs, which is why kids scream and “tantrum”. We also comment on the three-fold human.

[01:02:13] - The etheric (life/memory) body. growing these subtle energetic bodies for ourselves is the work of good parenting. Instead of “teaching” a child, why not optimize their environment (starting with ourselves) so that the child can organize herself, and this may be at a different pace than society demands. “Oppression” in teaching . Movement contains the soul and permits the soul to penetrate more deeply into our skeletal structure...but only when movement is soulful.

[01:08:04] - The astral (feeling/soul) body. Spirit bodies. Development happens in 7-year cycles, and this can help explain why so much transition happens in our 40s. Purposeful movement defined through the lens of the 8 limbs of yoga. This year marks a hundred years of Waldorf pedagogy in the world. The purpose of movement in yoga is to achieve nothing/stillness (don’t be fooled by its bastardization in the West).

[01:15:15] - Children wake up in the “doing” of life through own embodied living as parents. Rhythm is critical to the day/life of young children. Always allow stillness after movement. Our job as parents is to stay out of their way, which is an active process.

[01:21:53] - What if Autism isn’t something that can (or should) be fixed? Good Waldorf kindergarten teachers first notice movement of their pupils and how to support them through rhythm in the classroom, which may be even more important for children with autism. Waldorf educators are actively studying your children as a biodynamic gardener might study a plant, and this “study” promote the conscious, passive transformation of the child.

Born Free Method: The Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

References from the conversation:

* Rsarchive.org

* Rudolf Steiner audio

* Buddha in Red Face, by Eduardo Duran

* The Law of One

* The Ra Material, by Ekins Rueckert

* Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe

* Blume’s Taxonomy of Learning

* Philosophy of Freedom, by Rudolf Steiner

* Eurythmy

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews.

* 12-month access is $750

* Lifetime access is $3997 (This option comes with some other perks as well, including direct support from me and Sara for life by phone/text/email)

* Fertility Deep Dive ($499) if you just want to focus on pre-conception planning and fertility, but this content is included in both of our other offerings above.

We have payment plans available for the lifetime package, and we have discounts available for any of our programs for students and birthworkers. Just shoot Nathan and Sara an email: support@bornfreemethod.com

Work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Born Free Method | Clear & Free | Twins-BreechMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

Ze’ev Zohar, co-founder and CTO of MAYU Water, weaves art and science into the flow of everyday life. Trained as an engineer specializing in industrial design, he was moved by fatherhood to seek the purest water for his child. His creations revive tap water through swirling motion and gentle mineral touch, echoing the wisdom of springs—where beauty, function, and sustainability converge.

Use this link to get your own MAYU Swirl device for 10% off!

00:20:40 - There are 72 names of God in Hebrew. Water also has 72 anomalous properties that distinguish it from other substances.

00:25:45 - Ze’ev’s fascination with water began with the birth of his children and a desire to find healthier drinking water in Israel. Water is so important that it got a number of shout outs in the Bible starting with Genesis 1:2 "The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.”

00:31:20 - The benefits of the MAYU Swirl device design begin with getting people to appreciate water again. Water is always in motion. Issues with reverse osmosis and distilled water. Living water is “happy water”.

00:41:45 - Is there a best drinking water? Viktor Schauberger and biomimicry. We tend to exploit nature and extract from Her. Biomimicry isn’t about copying nature but rather learning from nature.

00:56:40 - Surface tension , capillary action, taste, and other metrics to gauge the aliveness of your drinking water

01:04:30 - Gerald Pollack and exclusion zone (“EZ”) water. Water is far more complex than simply “H2O”. For example, water inside a vortex is cooler than outside a vortex motion. Fourth phase of water is known as “plasma”.

01:20:50 - Should we be thoughtful about “heavy” water and deuterium-depleted water?

01:26:40 - Trace mineral content in water is comparable to the terroir of wine. Taste can help to guide you to the right water for you. Unfortunately, we often let our heads get in the way of our intuition, which is also a primary issue in maternity care, where I contend that intuition is authoritative knowledge.

01:40:05 - Observing and appreciating water is a spiritual process in and of itself

A few graphics to help you navigate this conversation:

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References from the conversation:

* Ana Bekoah, The Hebrew song we discussed at the beginning

* Viktor Schauberger’s books

* Find a clean local spring near you

* The Fourth Phase of Water : Beyond Solid, Liquid, and Vapor, by Gerald Pollack, PhD

* Gerald Pollack’s TED Talk

* Braiding Sweetgrass: Indigenous Wisdom, Scientific Knowledge and the Teachings of Plants, by Robin Wall Kimmerer

* Get an Analemma crystal wand to play with water coherence (10% off)

* Try deuterium-depleted water

* Use this link to get your own MAYU Swirl device for 10% off!

Show notes can be found on Substack

Related episodes:

* Dolf Zantinge: What Is Water?

* Gary Greenfield: Journey into the fascinating world of water, its properties, and the power of natural water solutions

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews.

* 12-month access is $750

* Lifetime access is $3997 (This option comes with some other perks as well, including direct support from me and Sara for life by phone/text/email)

* Fertility Deep Dive ($499) if you just want to focus on pre-conception planning and fertility, but this content is included in both of our other offerings above.

We have payment plans available for the lifetime package, and we have discounts available for any of our programs for students and birthworkers. Just shoot Nathan and Sara an email: support@bornfreemethod.com

Work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Born Free Method | Clear & Free | Twins-BreechMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

Amanda Borucki is a women’s health coach and FAMM-certified practitioner who helps people ditch the guesswork and actually understand their cycles. Her journey started the way many do — a doctor handed her the pill at 20, and she spent six years on it before realizing the side effects weren’t worth the trade. A copper IUD came next, which she remembers as “the painful thing I’ve ever experienced” and followed by the kind of periods no one signs up for, and the pain never fully resided after its removal. Eventually she divorced and turned to fertility awareness. Now she teaches others how to chart, how to spot what their bodies are saying, and how to make informed choices about hormones, health, and fertility. Amanda comes to the podcast after having joined Born Free Method three years ago, and we are excited to one day support her through her births!

You can work with Amanda through her website. You can enroll in her next online course cohort under the Courses tab.

* 00:14:05 - Women Often Judge Women for Adjusting Their Lives Around Their Cycles

Amanda shared her journey with contraception and body literacy, from early ignorance to painful experiences with hormonal birth control and a copper IUD. These challenges deepened her empathy and inspired her to coach others in understanding their cycles. Amanda also shares her disdain for having been compelled so long to live in her masculine.

* 00:22:20 - Education & Conditioning to Be Afraid of Pregnancy

She reflected on how cultural and religious conditioning fueled fear and misinformation about reproduction. Her experiences—including her husband’s vasectomy reversal, which re-sealed and now he is considering reoperation—led to a deeper respect for menstrual health.

* 00:53:03 - How can you use fertility tracking to determine the ideal time to have sex to get pregnant? Or avoid pregnancy?

Amanda emphasized charting ovulation through basal body temperature and cervical mucus—“nature’s sperm hotel”—as more effective than LH strips or apps. Stress, diet, and lifestyle all affect ovulation, making body awareness essential. Amanda explained the difference between true menstruation and withdrawal or breakthrough bleeding, Your ovulatory cycle and menstruation are vital signs! This is the crux of her upcoming six-week online course (starting Oct 14; code NATHAN10 for 10% off) covering anatomy, physiology, fertility charting to determine your fertile window, and how to modify lifestyle and environment to adjust the tracked metrics to optimize your health and fertility.

* 01:25:10 - Nutrition, Environment, and Lifestyle Impact Fertility

Amanda has found that caloric intake and especially protein intake are the most common issues pertaining to a suboptimal ovulatory cycle and fertility. She emphasizes the role of protein in fertility, noting that under-eating and poorly planned vegan diets can disrupt cycles. Amanda highlighted animal protein’s benefits but encouraged intentional nutrition for all diets.

* 01:35:33 - Learning About Your Cycle is a Means of Reclaiming Your Health

Through her personal story and professional training, Amanda empowers women to track cycles, prevent or achieve pregnancy naturally, and reclaim reproductive confidence. Her coaching (and fertility awareness tracking in general) is also relevant to the menopausal transition.

You can work with Amanda through her website. Find her on Instagram.

You can enroll in her next online course cohort under the Courses tab. Code NATHAN10 gets you 10% off this cohort and future cohorts!

References from the conversation:

* Lily Nichols, RDN

* Lisa Hendrickson-Jack, BA, FAE

* Real Food for Fertility: Prepare your body for pregnancy with preconception nutrition and fertility awareness, by Lisa Hendrickson-Jack and Lily Nichols

* The Fifth Vital Sign: Master Your Cycles & Optimize Your Fertility, by Lisa Hendrickson-Jack

* DUTCH Testing - Nathan is very good at reading these if you are interested

* Miracare Cycle Hormone Tracking - code BORNFREE15 for 15% off

* Her Biorhythm online course - useful for further modifying your lifesty/environment after you’ve used fertility awareness charting to distinguish the four phases of your cycle

Show notes can be found on Substack

Related episodes:

* Beyond Ovulation Apps: Building a Real Women’s Health Operating System with Kirsten Karchmer

* Your OBGYN Didn’t Learn About Nutritional Support for Fertility, with Lily Nichols, RDN, and Lisa Hendrickson-Jack, FAE

* Tracking your sex hormones at home with the Mira Hormone Monitor

* Kelly Ruef, ND and DUTCH Testing

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews.

* 12-month access is $750

* Lifetime access is $3997 (This option comes with some other perks as well, including direct support from me and Sara for life by phone/text/email)

* Fertility Deep Dive ($499) if you just want to focus on pre-conception planning and fertility, but this content is included in both of our other offerings above.

We have payment plans available for the lifetime package, and we have discounts available for any of our programs for students and birthworkers. Just shoot Nathan and Sara an email: support@bornfreemethod.com

Work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Born Free Method | Clear & Free | Twins-BreechMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

Payam walks the threshold between worlds—as Spirit Walker, Medicine Carrier, and Lecturer—where ancestral wisdom converges with contemporary science. His vocation is the orchestration of healing journeys that dissolve trauma, recalibrate the psyche, and awaken the soul’s remembrance of wholeness.

Initiated through extensive apprenticeships with visionaries such as Dr. Richard Schwartz, Dr. Gabor Maté, Dr. Mia Leijssen, and Dr. Isa Gucciardi, his formation spans Internal Family Systems, Compassionate Inquiry, existential and somatic practices, and psychedelic integration. Augmenting this with post-graduate study in trauma, contemplative neuroscience, and psychedelic-assisted therapies at institutions including the Nalanda Institute, Horizons, and Princeton University, he embodies a synthesis of rigorous scholarship and embodied mysticism.

Through international collaborations with physicians, psychiatrists, and healers, Payam curates sacred containers that weave together shamanic lineage, somatic intelligence, and evidence-based modalities—inviting participants to transmute pain into purpose, and silence into song.

This conversation is a deep exploration of medicine, ceremony, and healing—bridging psychedelics, spirituality, and tradition with questions of safety, authenticity, and integration…all of which are critical to birthwork.

* 00:05:10 - Rapé Drop-In and Origins of This Practice

Payam and Nathan began their conversation with a breathing exercise and meditation, focusing on healing and balancing energy. They then discussed the importance of rapé (“Ha-pay”), a practice that involves journeying and exploration of the mind and spirit. Nathan asked Payam about Hape’s origins and significance, expressing curiosity about its role in his work. They also discuss the importance of recognizing the masculine and feminine within all of us. Payam discussed the use of rapé, a medicine made from Mapacho, for grounding and connecting with spirits, and its application in energy work and ceremonies. He explained the energetic and spiritual significance of masculine and feminine qualities, associated with the right and left sides of the body respectively, and emphasized the importance of integrating these qualities for personal growth and healing. Nathan inquired about the practical application of these concepts during ceremonies, and Payam shared insights about warrior archetypes and energy work, highlighting the role of energy medicine in activating and discharging these archetypes.

* 00:27:00 - Holding Ceremony as Consciousness Exploration

Are hallucinations real even if they don’t fit into our physical experience of reality in a clear way? Nathan and Payam discussed the nature and purpose of ceremonies, emphasizing their role as safe spaces for exploring consciousness and the self. They highlighted the concept of the “relativization of the self” and the importance of intention and setting in creating a meaningful and safe experience. Payam shared his understanding of ceremonies as a way to connect with the wisdom of spirits and gain insights into the bigger picture, while Nathan compared the experience to exploring different facets of the self in a “playground.” They also touched on the relevance of ceremonies in understanding inner and societal polarities, suggesting that they can foster a sense of unity and shared humanity. What do we mean when we say “the world is losing it’s mind”?

* 00:38:45 - Psychedelics Can Be Healing Within the Appropriate Container and Integration

Nathan and Payam discussed the potential risks and benefits of using psychedelic substances, particularly in unstructured settings like Burning Man. Payam emphasized the importance of proper ceremony and facilitation when working with these substances, explaining how he carefully manages energy fields and participant states during his work. Nathan shared his own experiences with psychedelics, both positive and negative, and agreed with Payam that these substances can be harmful when used without proper integration and ceremony. They also touched on the idea that those in power may exploit chaos and disorder for their own benefit.

* 00:45:20 - Birth, Death, and Psychedelic Ceremony

Payam and Nathan discussed the importance of intention and respect in spiritual and medical practices, drawing parallels between childbirth and psychedelic medicine ceremonies. They explored how Western medical approaches, such as controlled clinical trials and hospital births, may contrast with traditional, more natural methods. Nathan shared an example from his fellowship experience where a university proposed a clinical trial for psilocybin that involved a controlled hospital setting, which he questioned could potentially undermine the intended therapeutic effects. Both agreed that a more supportive and respectful environment might be more beneficial for such experiences.

* 00:50:10 - Psychedelic Therapies Are Probaby Not Best Done in a Clinical Setting

Nathan and Payam discussed the parallels between clinical settings and psychedelic experiences, emphasizing the importance of creating a safe and supportive environment rather than controlling the process. Payam shared his experiences with facilitating healing from sexual trauma during ceremonies, highlighting the need for skilled facilitators who can support individuals in releasing trauma without re-traumatization. They also explored the limitations of Western medicine and its extractive nature, with Payam reflecting on his journey from a scientific background to recognizing the need for a more holistic approach to healing. Nathan shared a personal story about healing from religious disillusion, describing how reconnecting with the spiritual essence of ancient traditions helped him forgive dogmatic teaching.

* 01:04:50 - Authentic vs Commercialized Medicine Practices

Payam expressed concerns about Western institutions co-opting and corrupting Earth medicine traditions, contrasting them with authentic community-based practices where medicine carriers are elected by the community for collective healing. The discussion highlighted a fundamental distinction between profit-driven institutional approaches to psychedelics and authentic community-based medicine practices, with Payam emphasizing his commitment to avoid commercialization while acknowledging the need to sustain himself financially.

* 01:11:16 - You Don’t Need an Intercessor; You Are the Church

Payam discussed the concept of religious institutions as funnels for spiritual experiences, emphasizing the role of the intercessor and the importance of being an empty vessel for spiritual medicine. He explained that the best ceremonies involve doing nothing, allowing the spiritual process to unfold naturally. Nathan and Payam explored how this challenges traditional religious and therapeutic approaches, with Payam comparing the role of a spirit walker to that of a therapist in a psychedelic setting. They discussed the potential threats that such spiritual practices pose to established institutions and the importance of personal spiritual experience over reliance on intermediaries.

* 01:19:40 - Are All Synthetics Problematic?

Payam and Nathan discussed the use of various medicines, including synthetic drugs like MDMA and ketamine, as well as natural substances like mushrooms. Payam explained that MDMA is an analgesic and anxiolytic that can help individuals access and process hidden traumas. He emphasized the importance of working with spirit medicine before using synthetic substances, as it can prepare the individual for the insights gained from synthetic drugs. Nathan highlighted the challenge of balancing the use of medicines, whether synthetic or natural, and the need to approach them with respect and understanding rather than seeing them as good or bad.

* 01:28:05 - Rites of Passage in Modern Society

Payam discussed the distinction between “black medicines” (opioids, heroin) and “white medicines” (therapeutic drugs) and emphasized the importance of proper guidance and maturity when using psychedelic substances. He highlighted the lack of traditional rites of passage and elders in Western society, which he believes contributes to social issues among youth. When is a person old enough to “safely” use these medicines. Nathan and Payam agreed that the absence of elderhood and proper initiation processes is a significant issue facing the Western world today.

* 01:38:00 - Balancing Material and Spiritual Healing

Payam also shared his personal spiritual journey not having been raised within a religion, including his connection to ancestral wisdom and experiences with various spiritual entities. Nathan and Payam discussed the balance between material and spiritual realms, emphasizing the importance of integrating both in personal growth and medicine work. Payam shared his process for working with clients, which includes preparation, ceremony, and integration phases, often involving a team of specialists. They also touched on the potential of psychedelics in preparing for parenthood and the need for a holistic approach to healing. Nathan expressed interest in connecting with Payam for further exploration of these topics.

Contact Payam through his website.

References from the conversation:

* Start working with rapé and other (legal) sacred medicines: Four Visions or Sacred Connection

* Ram Dass (formerly Richard Alpert)

* Payam’s appearance on the Spirit Gym Podcast with Paul Chek

* Alicia Allison, doula and member of Payam’s team

Show notes can be found on Substack

Related episodes:

* Jennifer Summerfeldt: Any birthing experience can result in physical and psychological trauma if it’s not integrated with the sacred act of what it is

* Kimberly Ann Johnson: On Grieving the Loss of Sanctity in Birth

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews.

* 12-month access is $750

* Lifetime access is $3997 (This option comes with some other perks as well, including direct support from me and Sara for life by phone/text/email)

* Fertility Deep Dive ($499) if you just want to focus on pre-conception planning and fertility, but this content is included in both of our other offerings above.

We have payment plans available for the lifetime package, and we have discounts available for any of our programs for students and birthworkers. Just shoot Nathan and Sara an email: support@bornfreemethod.com

Work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Born Free Method | Clear & Free | Twins-BreechMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

Kirsten Karchmer, MS, M.Ed, is a health-tech pioneer, board-certified reproductive acupuncturist, and an innovator in women’s fertility and menstrual health. She is the Founder & CEO of Conceivable Technologies, a platform that leverages AI and machine-learning to identify fertility-impacting factors and offer personalized interventions at a fraction of the cost of IVF.

With two decades of clinical experience, Kirsten has treated thousands of women, developing proprietary infertility assessment and treatment protocols focused not just on conception but overall reproductive wellness. She also founded Brazen, a company dedicated to helping people with periods through all-natural formulas and education around menstrual health.

Kirsten has been recognized on multiple fronts: her company Conceivable has won awards like “Most Innovative Health Tech Startup” (by MedTech, 2015) and “Best Fertility App” (by Healthline, 2016). She is also the author of Seeing Red: The One Book Every Woman Needs to Read. Period.

00:01:30 - Kirsten lives with multiple sclerosis, well-controlled through environmental modification. After acupunture school, she realized that menstruation provides quite a few clues to what’s going on in a woman’s overall health. We discuss the value of experience over credentials.

00:05:55 - Definitions within Chinese medicine: meridians, qi/chi, and moxibustion

00:15:20 - Technique for turning breech babies with moxibustion

00:18:15 - Kirsten shares her experience of losing her period while a competitive gymnast in her adolescence. We discuss the role of stress in the development of abnormal periods, wounded warriors, and the dangers of impossible beauty standards on women’s health.

00:24:00 - It’s never one organ system that is wholly responsible for fertility issues or abnormal periods. Kirsten surveyed 16,000 woman about their menstrual cycles, and the results were (not so) surprising. We also found common ground on the limits of blood work, LH strips, and many ovulation tracking technologies. Lastly, perhaps we should we be aiming for “optimal” not “normal” when we talk about menstrual periods.

00:33:30 - Men are being ignored in fertility workups and interventions. Also: we discuss why the supplement industry sucks.

00:42:20 - As far as “lifestyle” modification goes, sleep is king. We discuss heart rate variability (HRV) monitoring, and a new wearable ring developed by Kirsten herself that also measures blood sugar. We go deeper on her new app, fertility awareness methods, and addressing BBT abnormalities in supporting pre-menstrual syndrome (PMS).

00:51:20 - Nathan also asked Kirsten about perspectives of blood in Chinese medicine. Kirsten also took the opportunity to emphasize ways in which menstrual blood can tell you so much about a women’s digestion, nourishment, etc. We end with a conversation on stigma around menstruation.

00:58:35 - Lastly, Kirsten and Nathan discuss the role of fathers in normalizing menstruation, and Kirsten shares a “power play move” for fathers of young children.

Follow Kirsten on Instagram and Tiktok. Download the Conceivable App (only for iPhone)

Notes for this episode are found on Substack

References from the show:

* Fifth Vital Sign, by Lisa Hendrickson-Jack

* The Body Electric: Electromagnetism And The Foundation Of Life, by Robert Becker and Gary Selden

Related episodes:

* My new favorite prenatal and fertility vitamin with Ronit Menashe and Vida Delrahim of WeNatal

* Your OBGYN Didn't Learn About Nutritional Support for Fertility, with Lily Nichols, RDN, and Lisa Hendrickson-Jack, FAE

* Nicole Jardim: On Fixing Your Period

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews.

* 12-month access is $750

* Lifetime access is $3997 (This option comes with some other perks as well, including direct support from me and Sara for life by phone/text/email)

* Fertility Deep Dive ($499) if you just want to focus on pre-conception planning and fertility, but this content is included in both of our other offerings above.

We have payment plans available for the lifetime package, and we have discounts available for any of our programs for students and birthworkers. Just shoot Nathan and Sara an email: support@bornfreemethod.com .

Work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Born Free Method | Clear & Free | Twins-BreechMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

This is a replay of my original conversation with the late Michel Odent, MD, when I interviewed him in 2023 at the ripe age of 92. Here is a summary of our conversation…(transcript is available on Substack)Our cultural conditioning tells us that women aren’t capable of giving birth independently and that we should apply every possible intervention to reduce the difficulties associated with childbirth. For Michel Odent, that’s a neutralization of the laws of natural selection.

Early in his career, Michel worked as the only doctor in a maternity unit with six midwives. He took a deep interest in their experiences and asked them questions that changed his thoughts on birth work. As a general surgeon, he credits a lot to his interdisciplinary perspective. He believes that’s what allows him to make connections that other overly-specialized people do not.

Michel is a legend in the maternity care space and has been a hero of mine for many years. This interview was such an honor.

Dr. Odent died August 19, 2025.

00:12:00 - Dr Odent was trained as a general surgeon, before cesarean has been “perfected”. After military service, where he learned the technique, he became the head of the surgical section of the maternity unit at a Parisian hospital and he became a keen observer of the environment of birth, in a department welcoming 1000 babies per year.

00:20:30 - We are asking the wrong question in our efforts at-large to fix maternity care. Instead of asking “why is birth difficult?”, perhaps we should be asking “why are some births easy?” We are overestimating the importance of mechanics. Why are some births seemingly more easy and even enjoyable than others?

00:27:40 - The socialization of child birth and domination of nature starting 10000 years ago with agriculture has been a fatal error, and we must now back track to right the ship. This error coincides with the time during which human beings became (perhaps overly) domesticated themselves.

00:37:15 - When considering interventions in childbirth, the point is not to forget (or overemphasize) the benefits of surgery on occasion. We also discuss oxytocin versus Pitocin®, the fake stuff, and the role of neocortex activation in disturbing childbirth. Changing maternity care requires us to change our culture such that women are left undisturbed unless absolutely necessary to meet their goals.

00:46:10 - Michel’s perspective as a general surgeon invited into maternity care by necessity has helped him appreciate the value of an interdisciplinary approach to birth. He touches on the changes to the maternal brain through MRI imaging, reflecting the need to de-socialize prior to birth, which supports focused maternal-neonatal bonding postpartum. Michel also comments on the need to de-specialize.

00:49:45 - We have neutralized the principles of natural selection, in birth and death, and this was a turning point in the story of humankind. We also pontificate on the impacts of our war against nature on the planet at large. Lastly, we touch on the Aquatic Ape Theory, exploring the association between chronic human illness and our drifting away from shorelines.

Michel Odent's Books will live on forever…Find them here. (Start with the Functions of the Orgasms)

Notes for this episode are found on Substack

Related episodes:

* Helping Your Baby Navigate the Pelvis with Nicole Morales and Gail Tully

* Mini-Sode: Carol Gautschi, a classical midwife, needs midwives to re-member the essence of midwifery

* Oxytocin, Orgasm, and Love - An interview with Sue Carter, PhD, the world's expert on the "love hormone"

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews.

* 12-month access is $750

* Lifetime access is $3997 (This option comes with some other perks as well, including direct support from me and Sara for life by phone/text/email)

* Fertility Deep Dive ($499) if you just want to focus on pre-conception planning and fertility, but this content is included in both of our other offerings above.

We have payment plans available for the lifetime package, and we have discounts available for any of our programs for students and birthworkers. Just shoot Nathan and Sara an email: support@bornfreemethod.com .

Work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Born Free Method | Clear & Free | Twins-BreechMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

Jes Reynolds is a registered physiotherapist and holistic health practitioner, and the driving force behind The Wellness Element. Drawing on her personal experience with hyperemesis gravidarum (HG), she now empowers pregnant women to prevent and reverse severe morning sickness through natural, root‑cause solutions—no medications required—and helps them feel strong, nourished, and energized throughout their pregnancy.

00:03:28 - Holistic Pregnancy Health Management

Jes shared her personal experience with pregnancy-related health issues, including preeclampsia, cholestasis, and hyperemesis, and how she used a low histamine diet and other interventions to manage her symptoms. She explained that her approach was not arbitrary but based on her clinical experience and research, including insights from Dr. Ben Lynch. Jes emphasized the importance of a personalized and holistic assessment when working with clients, considering factors such as liver function, gut health, nervous system, and kidney function. She also discussed the potential for clients to reintroduce restricted foods after pregnancy, depending on their individual needs and responses.

00:12:20 - Liver-Kidney Detoxification Pathways

Nathan and Jes discussed the complex relationship between the liver and kidneys, highlighting how the kidneys serve as a backup detoxification pathway when the liver is not functioning optimally. They explored the benefits of glandular support, particularly organ meats, and the importance of addressing nutrient deficiencies to optimize liver detoxification processes. Jes shared her experience with raw liver consumption postpartum to address hair loss and explained the timeline of histamine-related symptoms during pregnancy. They also discussed the role of vitamins and nutrients as cofactors in detoxification pathways, emphasizing the body's complex processes for protecting and eliminating toxins.

00:34:00 - Preconception Health: Emotional and Energetic Factors

Jes and Nathan discussed holistic approaches to pregnancy and preconception health, focusing on emotional and energetic factors that may influence health outcomes. Jes emphasized the importance of addressing emotional resistance to pregnancy, particularly in type-A accomplished women, and highlighted the role of somatic practices and emotional release in supporting liver function and overall health. They explored the concept of epigenetics and the potential to influence future generations through preconception health practices. Nathan and Jes agreed that allowing oneself to feel and process emotions, rather than suppressing them, is crucial for both individual well-being and the health of children.

00:45:25 - Pregnancy Detox and Nutrition Program

Jes discussed her approach to detoxification and cleansing, emphasizing the importance of addressing the body's terrain and supporting natural detoxification processes. She shared her experience with star anise as a safe herb for pregnant women and explained her upcoming program, "The Human Blueprint," designed for women planning future pregnancies. Jes also highlighted the significance of digestive strength in nutrient absorption and addressed common pregnancy issues like food aversions, suggesting that they are often linked to the body's need to conserve energy. Nathan encouraged Jes to share her expertise with others and mentioned plans to refer clients to her. They also touch on MTFHR gene mutations and their implication in HG.

00:51:35 - Collaborative Approach to HG Treatment

Jes discussed her holistic approach to treating hyperemesis gravidarum (HG) by connecting different medical silos and emphasized the importance of collaboration in healthcare, sharing an example from her work in the UK where daily team meetings improved patient outcomes. She explained her journey from physiotherapy to a broader health practice focused on pregnancy and postpartum care, and shared her rebranding efforts to better reflect this focus. Nathan expressed support for her work and discussed the need for more curiosity and openness in the medical field, suggesting a future where practitioners like Jes could be easily accessed for various health needs.Connect with Jes on Instagram. Listen to her podcast. And check out her practice.

References from the show:

* Dirty Genes: A Revolutionary Approach to Health and Wellness Through Nutritional Genetics and Personalized Plans for a Happier, Healthier, by Ben Lynch, ND

* Low Histamine Diet 101

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews.

* 12-month access is $750

* Lifetime access is $3997 (This option comes with some other perks as well, including direct support from me and Sara for life by phone/text/email)

* Fertility Deep Dive ($499) if you just want to focus on pre-conception planning and fertility, but this content is included in both of our other offerings above.

We have payment plans available for the lifetime package, and we have discounts available for any of our programs for students and birthworkers. Just shoot Nathan and Sara an email: support@bornfreemethod.com .

Notes for this episode are found on Substack

Work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Born Free Method | Clear & Free | Twins-BreechMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

In this conversation, Nathan interviews Kyle Kingsbury, a former UFC combatant, about fatherhood, self-mastery, and personal growth. Kyle shares his transformation from a performance-driven lifestyle to embracing emotional, mental, and spiritual well-being, highlighting the importance of addressing past traumas and building self-awareness through practices like meditation and plant medicine. The discussion emphasizes the significance of presence and play in parenting, the evolving roles of men and women in the family, and the need to prioritize relationships over material success. Kyle advocates for building supportive communities and tribes, recognizing the unique challenges modern parents face. He introduces his upcoming online community, retreats, and courses designed to foster connection, movement, and holistic health. The conversation encourages listeners to embrace vulnerability, continuous growth, and the central role of family in a fulfilling life.

* 0:00:23 Introduction, Kyle’s impact as a friend and teacher

* 0:10:54 - Kyle’s personal journey: struggles, mental health, and transformation

* 0:19:00 - Physical fitness, self-experimentation, and the role of fighting in self-awareness

* 0:22:20 - Meditation practices and their impact on self-mastery

* 0:30:55 - Emotional health, vulnerability, and the importance of crying and purging

* 0:36:51 - Coaching clients: integrating physical, mental, and emotional health

* 0:44:04 - Overcoming stereotypes as a coach

* 0:47:43 - Parenting, fatherhood, and the importance of presence and play

* 1:04:06 - Lifelong parenting, imprinting, and reprioritizing after becoming a parent

* 1:13:49 - Redefining masculinity, work-life balance, and the role of fathers

* 1:16:21 - The evolving role of women, matriarchy, and honoring the feminine

* 1:22:17 - Summary: prioritizing family, embracing new archetypes, and advice for parents

* 1:25:17 - Kyle’s new offerings:

* Be among the first to work with Kyle and engage with his new online coaching community (Learn more).

* You can also register for his upcoming Austin retreat: The Rising, which is an all-inclusive, 5-day immersive experience designed to reconnect you with your body, your food, and your purpose.

Connect with Kyle on Instagram, and definitely check out his podcast! It’s one of my favorites…In this show, we also mentioned:

* The Cosmic Serpent: DNA and the Origins of Knowledge — by Jeremy Narby

* The Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less — by Greg McKeown

* How to Eat, Move and Be Healthy! — by Paul Chek

This episode was sponsored by Born Free Method.

The Born Free Method digital playground includes over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews.

* 12-month access is $750

* Lifetime access is $3997 (This option comes with some other perks as well, including direct support from me and Sara for life by phone/text/email)

* Fertility Deep Dive ($499) if you just want to focus on pre-conception planning and fertility, but this content is included in both of our other offerings above.

We have payment plans available for the lifetime package, and we have discounts available for any of our programs for students and birthworkers. Just shoot Nathan and Sara an email: support@bornfreemethod.com .

Notes for this episode are found on Substack

Work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Born Free Method | Clear & Free | Twins-BreechMedical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

In this solo cast, I am not looking at data and reviewing journal articles. I’m pontificating on how we might reimagine the birth of children through the lens of “safety”.

The nervous system responds to our environment, so the environment - including external inputs like sound and internal inputs like thoughts - will lead to physiologic changes throughout our bodies depending on whether our nervous systems are sensing safety. Ideally, we would all feel safe when the environment is safe, but this is unfortunately not the case for all adults, even in the “wealthy” United States.

This is even more important when we consider a baby’s need to feel safe…

To understand this in a more comprehensive way than we learn in medical school, I will be drawing on Polyvagal Theroy and the Perinatal Matrix Theory.

If you’re unfamiliar, here is a synopsis of each:

Polyvagal Theory, developed by Stephen Porges, PhD, explains how our autonomic nervous system regulates safety, connection, and defense. It describes three states: social engagement (ventral vagal), fight-or-flight (sympathetic), and shutdown (dorsal vagal). Understanding these helps explain trauma responses and how co-regulation and safety cues restore calm and connection.

Stan Grof’s (MD) perinatal matrix theory links stages of birth to deep layers of the unconscious. He describes four Basic Perinatal Matrices (BPM I–IV): blissful womb, constriction, struggle through the birth canal, and birth/release. These stages shape emotional patterns, trauma, and spiritual experiences throughout life.

The environment within which a baby develops is critical. We know this.

So why wouldn’t the environment after birth matter just as much? And if we were to prioritize the optimization of the birth experience - for both the baby and his parents - would this lead to widespread changes in our world?

It’s a lofty claim, but I think it’s possible.

Enjoy this exploration.

If you like this conversation, you’ll love the Born Free Method, as this solo-cast elaborates the cornerstone of my approach to childbirth alongside my best friend (and a badass midwife) Sara Rosser, CPM.

You can access over 60 hrs of pre-recorded lessons (w/ slides) spread out over 180+ lessons when you enroll. You will also be invited to a Zoom call (recorded) every other week hosted by me, Sara, and both. We also often have guest speakers, and you will have access to recordings for all 100+ of our past calls/interviews. 12-month access is $750Lifetime access is $3997 (plus you get direct support from me and Sara for life by phone/text/email/whatever)We also offer a Fertility Deep Dive ($499) if you just want to focus on pre-conception planning and fertility, but this content is included in both of our other offerings above.

We have payment plans available for the lifetime package, and we have discounts available for any of our programs for students and birthworkers. Just shoot us an email: support@bornfreemethod.com

Notes for this episode are found on Substack

Work with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Born Free Method | Clear & Free | Twins-Breech

Medical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.

Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

Trigger warning: This conversation exploring the depths of stillbirth.

I met MaKayla Wonder a year or so ago, soon after she and her husband, Adam, experienced the devastation of a stillbirth. If the news of realizing their baby, Declan, had died in-utero wasn’t bad enough, their treatment in the hospital left them shattered, which brought them to the Born Free Method community.

In this powerful conversation, MaKayla and Adam share the layered story of her journey to motherhood—one marked by the heartbreaking stillbirth of her son, Declan, and the redemptive birth of her daughter, Heidi. With honesty and grace, she recounts how fear, cultural conditioning, and a chaotic hospital experience left her feeling abandoned in her first birth journey. Seeking a different path, MaKayla turned inward, trusting her intuition and embracing the Born Free Method, which helped her heal and reclaim her power. Her story is not one of simple tragedy or triumph but of integration—holding space for both sorrow and joy, death and life, within one sacred womb. Through vulnerability and courage, MaKayla reminds us that birth is not just a medical event, but a profoundly spiritual and emotional rite of passage.

This episode offers a tender and transformative look into the resilience of the human spirit and the wisdom of mothers. Here are some main topics we covered:

* The Duality of Birth and Loss: The emotional complexity of holding space for both the grief of losing a baby and the joy of welcoming another.

* The Impact of Medicalized Maternity Care: Reflections on the impersonal and disempowering aspects of her hospital experience, including a lack of support and clarity during her stillbirth.

* Intuition vs. Intervention: MaKayla’s growing mistrust of the conventional birth system and her shift toward a more intuitive, personalized approach to pregnancy and birth.

* The Born Free Method’s Role in Healing: How the support of the Born Free Method community helped her process her trauma, rebuild trust in her body, and approach her second birth with intention and support.

* Honoring Both Stories: How mothers can integrate seemingly opposing birth experiences into a unified narrative—one that honors the child who died and celebrates the child who lives.

This interview was a follow-up to an anonymous conversation with Makayla prior to her conceiving and birthing Heidi. That first conversation is available in our FREE Pregnancy Loss program also available at www.BornFreeMethod.com.

If you’re interested in enrolling as a midwife or a student or if you’re a birthing family looking for support, head to www.BornFreeMethod.com. Code STUDENT50 gets you 50% if you enroll in the month of June!

For our comprehensive digital playground, live calls, and lifetime, direct support), we also offer payment plans! (3-month and 12-month options)

If you aren’t ready for the full investment, we offer a less-pricey but more limited Fertility Deep Dive. You can also pay a monthly subscription to simply attend our twice monthly live calls (and view past recordings).

www.BornFreeMethod.com

Notes for this episode are found on SubstackWork with Nathan:Support for Midwives | Private Consultation | Born Free Method | Clear & Free | Twins-Breech

Medical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.

Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

Born Free Method has undergone a makeover…a massive makeover. Our pet project is now the most comprehensive pregnancy support program on the planet, including 60+ hours of lessons, twice monthly recorded group calls (and access to the recordings of all past calls), a private community forum, and direct access to Nathan and Sara for life.

After we had a moment to decompress from this massive undertaking, Sara and I sat down to reflect on the journey of launching Born Free Method back in May, 2023, and then rebuilding the whole program based on the feedback of our community and new insights from births that we have attended since the launch.

The Born Free Method can best be described as a digital playground for seekers—students, midwives, birthing families, and misfits alike. Through our thriving community at the Born Free Method, we honor imperfection, speak to love and surrender to the current of childbirth. Through it all, one thread has emerged above all: community matters. The “data” or any curriculum proposed by a childbirth support program pales in comparison to the connections forged from direct support by an OBGYN and a midwife to birthing families, where stories are medicine, and transformation begins with telling the truth.

This conversation dances between birth and belief, method and mystery. We explored public perception of birth choices, breastfeeding, and the brave work of reimagining maternity care. Amid reflections on family, mentorship, and fractured systems, a deeper current ran through this conversation: our ongoing courage to question, to hold space, to show up. And as a bridge between worlds…we are bound to get stepped on, which we discuss as well.

Here is a sampling of what we cover in this conversation:

* New updates to the Born Free Method, now redesigned as an interactive, self-guided platform with comprehensive explanation of low- and high-risk pregnancy and birth scenarios.

* Reflections on the program’s evolution, emphasizing the importance of community feedback, personalization, and ongoing learning.

* The importance of the supportive environment that we've built, where mentorship, vulnerability, and experiential learning are prioritized over rigid dogma.

* Broader themes around faith, family dynamics, and control, linking personal stories to societal patterns of power and belief.

If you’re interested in enrolling as a midwife or a student or if you’re a birthing family looking for support, head to www.bornfreemethod.com. Code STUDENT50 gets you 50% if you enroll in the month of June!For our comprehensive digital playground, live calls, and lifetime, direct support), we also offer payment plans! (3-month and 12-month options)

If you aren’t ready for the full investment, we offer a less-pricey but more limited Fertility Deep Dive. You can also pay a monthly subscription to simply attend our twice monthly live calls (and view past recordings).

www.BornFreeMethod.com

Medical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.

Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

Dr. Sarah Pederson is founder of Vera Fertility where she uses Naprotechnology and a restorative reproductive health approach to find and treat the root cause of hormone imbalances and infertility. Rose MacKenzie is the Clinical Manager at MiraCare.com, where she assists healthcare professionals in effectively integrating Mira's hormone monitoring tools into their practices. Rose is well-equipped to provide education and support to providers and fertility awareness educators. Additionally, Rose brings nearly a decade of experience as a natural family planning instructor, specializing in the Marquette and Sympto-Thermal Methods. For more information about Mira: 1. Introduction to Mira video (produced for practitioners but also valuable for non-practitioner) 2. Book a meeting with Mira staff (for providers) 3. 20% discount code: BELOVED20 Episode is available for listening on all podcast platforms AND you can watch our interview and walk through the case studies presented if you check out the episode on Youtube.Notes for this episode are found on SubstackWork with Nathan:

Beloved Holistics | Born Free Method | Clear & Free | Twins-Breech

Medical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.

Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

I recently completed a 3-part essay series on Oxytocin versus Pitocin®. In Part 1, I focused on oxytocin and its activities throughout the conception and childbirth continuum. Part 2 focused on the increased use of synthetic oxytocin (Pitocin®) in the conventional, hospital-based maternity care model. Part 3 focused on the potential detrimental effects of the nearly ubiquitous use of Pitocin® in U.S.-based childbirth, considering that 98% or more of birth are happening within hospitals.Well, my guest in this interview is the world’s expert on Oxytocin. Sue Carter, PhD, has a laundry list of accolades. She spent most of her career as a professor of medicine at the Universities of Virginia and Indiana. A quick Pubmed search is very revealing…Dr. Carter is the real deal. And her research into Oxytocin was extremely helpful to this series of essays and my own appreciation for this magical molecule. This interview was also conducted as a community call with the Born Free Method community members. So there is also some live Q&A action. (If you aren’t familiar with the Born Free Method, it’s the most comprehensive childbirth education program on the planet. In fact, it’s so unique that it’s not fair to even categorize is “childbirth education”. It’s a part of a childbirth revolution.)Notes for this episode are found on SubstackWork with Nathan:Beloved Holistics | Born Free Method | Clear & Free | Twins-Breech

Medical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.

Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

My mother started nursing at age 20, and she was fired more than once for standing up to physicians who strayed from the path. She and I were often at odds during my formative years, during which she verifies what many already know about me: I was a pain in the ass for my teachers and preceptors over the years. I was curious and often demanded deeper reasoning behind the answers I was expected to give in my many years of education. When I was fired for blowing whistles after completing my training, she wasn’t surprised. She was also concerned for me, but not because of my disruptive tendencies but rather as a consequence of her own ordeals as a health care professional who put her own job in jeopardy innumerable times over the course of her illustrious career. In this beautiful conversation with my mother, the original disruptor by the same name, we cover:

Her direct experience with the corruption of informed consent and coercion (and the consequences of calling it out)

Her Pediatric ICU experience and how it informed her fears around parenthood

My birth story (and my sister’s) and the challenges of giving birth without the support of a partner

Corruption in clinical trials and the consequences of whistleblowing

Her reflections on the COVID moment through the lens of her years of experience in every facet of healthcare

How her influence and integrity as a health care professional ultimately influenced my own experience as a physician and general pain-in-the-ass

Born Free Method: The Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Notes for this episode are found on Substack

Work with Nathan:

Beloved Holistics | Born Free Method | Clear & Free | Twins-Breech

Medical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.

Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

This summary covers:- Prediction and Prevention of Spontaneous Preterm Birth - Practice Bulletin #234 - Published August 2021- Management of Preterm Labor - Practice Bulletin #171 - Published October 2016

Prediction and Prevention

Five Pearls

* PTD at <34 wga carries higher mortality and morbidity risk to newborn in delivery and long-term morbidity

* History of PTD is the greatest risk factor for PTD in a current pregnancy

* Progesterone supplementation can be considered regardless of history of PTD

* In patients w/ singleton pregnancy and history of PTD, cerclage should be offered if CL <25 mm is detected on TVUS at 16-24 wga

* Omega 3s, low-dose aspirin, lifestyle modification, and smoking cessation are also important considerations in decreasing our national PTD rate

Background

* rates of preterm delivery in the U.S. has been pretty stable

* "Although risks are greatest for neonates born before 34 weeks of gestation, infants born after 34 weeks of gestation but before 37 weeks of gestation are still more likely to experience delivery complications, long-term impairment, and early death than those born later in pregnancy"

* risk factors for PTD: prior PTD (1-2x ↑ risk), short cervical length (<20mm if no history of PTD; <25mm if prior history), vaginal infection in pregnancy, vaginal bleeding in pregnancy, UTI in pregnancy, or periodontal disease in pregnancy (treatment of any of these won't normalize risk, though), low maternal BMI, smoking, substance abuse, and short inter-pregnancy interval

* in case you were wondering, history of LEEP of CKC for cervical dysplasia has not been found to be a risk factor after all according to ACOG but there are studies that support this (and my own direct clinical experience reflects the alternative)

* White women have the lowest rate (9.3%), Hispanic women (10%), American Indian and Alaskan native (11.5%), Native Hawaiian and Pacific Islander (11.8%), with highest rates seen among black women (14%)

Who should be screened and how?

* the purpose of screening is to identify patients in whom intervention will be helpful

* really the only patients who qualify for screening are those with a history of prior PTD, PPROM, multiple gestations, but ACOG feels it’s reasonable to screen universally as 5% of all women could potentially give birth preterm

* a systematic review looked at 14 studies and found that:

“a cervical length less than 25 mm before 16-24 weeks of gestation had a sensitivity of 65.4% for preterm birth before 35 weeks of gestation, with a positive predictive value of 33.0% and a negative predictive value of 92.0%. Sub-analysis of the studies that included only women whose risk factor was prior spontaneous preterm birth found a similar sensitivity and a positive predictive value of 41.4%”

* get a baseline transvaginal ultrasound (TVUS) and repeat this evaluation every 1-2 weeks to assess for change (limited data on time interval)

* measure three times, and go with the average

* "fetal fibronectin screening, bacterial vaginosis screening, and home uterine activity monitoring have been proposed to assess a woman’s risk of preterm delivery" and none of them have panned out as useful predictors of PTD in asymptomatic women

* recent data suggests that it might actually be cost-effective to universally screen for shortened cervix in patients without history of PTD (study 1, study 2), but, for now, ACOG states it's reasonable to offer but not necessarily recommended universally

When and how to prevent PTD?

No history of PTD

* Extensively studied as a means to reduce the risk of preterm birth in asymptomatic women with a singleton pregnancy, short cervix, and no prior preterm birth.

* a meta-analysis of five randomized trials of vaginal progesterone versus placebo in patients with a singleton pregnancy, a short cervix, and no prior preterm birth was performed, including patients from the 2019 OPTIMUM (Does Progesterone Prophylaxis to Prevent Preterm Labour Improve Outcome?) trial who did not have other risk factors, and standardizing the threshold definition of shortened cervix at 25 mm or less for their analysis. Patients treated with vaginal progesterone had a significantly reduced risk of any preterm birth before 34 0/7 weeks of gestation (14.5% versus 24.6%; RR, 0.60; 95% CI, 0.44–0.82), spontaneous preterm birth before 34 0/7 weeks of gestation (RR, 0.63; 95% CI, 0.44–0.88), neonatal respiratory distress, and neonatal intensive care unit admission. The meta-analysis authors calculated that 14 patients would need to be treated to prevent one spontaneous preterm birth before 34 0/7 weeks of gestation.

* Vaginal progesterone is recommended for asymptomatic individuals without a history of preterm birth with a singleton pregnancy and a short cervix. 200 mg per vagina nightly is the best studied regimen

History of PTD:

* Before the PROLONG trial (2020), a metaanalysis was published in 1990 that showed demonstrable evidence of the benefits of 17-OH-P in preventing recurrent PTD, which led to a large multicenter RCT of 463 patients. They were randomized to receive either 250 mg 17-OHPC IM or placebo, starting between 16 0/7 and 20 6/7 weeks of gestation. Administration of 17-OHPC reduced the rate of preterm birth before 35 weeks of gestation by one third, leading ACOG and SMFM to recommend this intervention universally to women with history of PTD.

* Then came the PROLONG trial, which evaluated the efficacy of 17-OHPC 250 mg intramuscular injection weekly compared with placebo on preterm birth and neonatal morbidity among women with a singleton pregnancy and prior spontaneous preterm birth. Large, international, multicenter double-blind RCT. 1740 women randomized (of 1877 eligible). No statistical difference found in the two primary outcomes of preterm birth before 35 0/7 weeks of gestation or maternal/neonatal outcomes.

* On April 5, 2023, the FDA withdrew its approval of 17-OHP for prevention of preterm birth as a result of the PROLONG trial

* Data comparing vaginal to IM progesterone supplementation continues to roll in, so no definitive conclusions can be made yet

* In the meantime, SMFM discourages clinicians from using IM 17-OHP off-label

* Recommended to screen cervical length every week from 16-24 weeks and to offer cerclage if it measures <25 mm, though this intervention was best studied for women with history of PTD <34 weeks

* it may be more cost effective to forego cervical shortening screening altogether in those without this history

Cerclage

* Short cervix found on ultrasound: uncertain effectiveness in patients with a short cervix and no history of preterm birth. However, there is evidence of potential benefit in patients with a very short cervical length (<10 mm)

* Open cervix on physical exam: Individuals with cervical insufficiency based on a dilated cervix on a digital or speculum examination at 16 0/7–23 6/7 weeks of gestation are candidates for a physical examination-indicated cerclage (but data is mixed)

* unclear if 17-OH-P plus cerclage are additionally helpful together compared to either intervention alone

* An interesting side note: there’s no evidence, per say, that suggests that it’s a terrible idea to place an US-indicated cerclage after 23 6/7 weeks; this is merely “expert opinion”

* Because cervical insufficiency traditionally is defined as painless cervical dilation in the 2nd trimester, this restriction presented no issue when viability did not begin until the 3rd trimester and indeed may have arisen to discourage the treatment of patients with threatened preterm labor with cerclage

* But now that we have better means of keeping 23+ weekers alive in the NICU, it seems that little investment has been made to prevent babies from coming super early

* What if a specific institution doesn’t have the full capacities for keeping these very preterm babies alive? Should we not then consider an early 3rd trimester cerclage? Why not? Very little data to continue this conversation…(much of this is paraphrased from a bada$$ article that was recently published in the Green Journal)

Notes on cerclages...

There are three indications:

* Ultrasound-indicated: what we've already described

* History-indicated: cerclage placed at conclusion of first trimester and after prenatal screening has been completed in patients with cervical insufficiency

* Physical exam-indicated (e.g. rescue cerclage): option if cervical dilation >2cm is visualized on speculum exam or ultrasound <24 wga

There are three techniques (all call for Mersilene suture):

* McDonald: performed vaginally under regional anesthesia using the purse-string technique at the cervicovaginal junction; bladder emptying is recommended, but mobilization is not required

* Shirodkar: performed vaginally under regional anesthesia using purse string technique after emptying and mobilizing the bladder

* Transabdominal: performed laparoscopically or open, placing the suture in purse-string fashion at the cervicoisthmic jxn (**will require c-section); recommended if vaginal placement is determined not possible or if cervix is too short that vaginal effort is unlikely to be successful

If a patient has a cerclage in place and presents in active labor, you must remove the cerclage to avoid cervical laceration, which can lead to outrageous brisk bleeding (you can't stop active labor)

Other options

* if birth was preterm due to other comorbidities, low-dose aspirin has been demonstrated in some studies to prevent preclampsia and thus prevent indication for iatrogenic preterm birth

* tighter control over BPs in cHTN may also decrease our PTD rates

* presence of funneling hasn't been found to significantly influence the risk of PTD

* "indomethacin or antibiotics, activity restriction, or supplementation with omega-3 fatty acids have not been evaluated in the context of randomized trials for women with short cervical length, and are not recommended as clinical interventions for women with an incidentally diagnosed short cervical length."

* stop smoking

* omega 3 fatty acids show some promise (2018 Cochrane review)

* decreasing allostatic load (think: improve our racist, inegalitarian society)

* treat UTIs and vaginal infections when they arise

* avoid licorice root?

* false unicorn root

* wild yam

* uva ursi (indirectly through flushing urinary tract)

* history of PROM: check electrolytes or hair mineral analysis

Management of Preterm Labor

Five Pearls

* Preterm labor carries significant risks to the newborn: the more premature, the worse the outcomes

* Given high risk for long-term morbidity in extremely premature infants, focusing on comfort as opposed to aggressive resuscitation at time of delivery is reasonable through a shared medical decision-making process

* Corticosteroids can improve outcomes for newborns at risk of preterm birth at <34 wga (and some as late as 36w5d) if delivery anticipated within the next 7 days

* Latency antibiotics can improve outcomes for newborns in the setting of PPROM at <34 wga

* Magnesium sulfate can improve outcomes for newborns at risk of preterm birth at <32 wga

Background

* around 10% of babies are born before 37 wga

* why are we concerned? higher risk of neonatal mortality, respiratory distress, sepsis, intracranial bleeding, and long-term issues like neurodevelopmental challenges

* preterm labor definition: regular uterine contractions + cervical dilation ≥ 2 cm between 20 wga and 36w6d ga

* <10% of women who present that meet these criteria actually deliver within 7 days

So a patient presents with contractions preterm...

* you could look with a speculum exam, collect fetal fibronectin, and/or get an endovaginal ultrasound

* utility of ultrasound and FFN haven't been validated through RCTs, though observational data suggests they may be helpful in identifying patients truly at risk for preterm birth; FFN alone has poor predictive value (CONSIDER THE WHOLE CLINICAL PICTURE)

* if she looks like she's in labor, especially if >32 wga, digital exam of the cervix may be warranted - we will review prevention of preterm labor in a future episode...

When should we be worried about preterm delivery?

* consistent regular contractions and evidence of cervical dilation are good sign that preterm delivery may be happening

* in 30% of patients presenting w/ preterm prodromal labor, the process will cease spontaneously; only 50% of patients admitted for preterm labor concerns will end up delivering at term (SO BE JUDICIOUS AND THOUGHTFUL)

Pearl: ~20% of patients who present with preterm contractions without cervical dilation will deliver before 37 wga; <5% will deliver within 2 weeks of presentation

Can we stop preterm labor?

* Sometimes, but tocolytic therapy is only thought to be effective for 48 hrs (just so happens to buy you enough time to get corticosteroids on board if indicated)

* tocolysis is generally not recommended after 34 wga

* since 30% of preterm labor will resolve without any intervention, even patients with advanced cervical dilation (2 cm) at <34 can generally be observed without tocolytics, and particularly so if no cervical dilation is found

* b-adrenergics don't tocolyze well and carry significant maternal cardiovascular risks (but OK for antepartum uterine tachysystole)

What's the cut off for viability?

* <20 weeks is considered previable (no intervention indicated)

* 23 wga to ~26 wga can be considered periviable

* this NICHD calculator can be used in your counseling to guide delivery/management plan

Pearl: Just because we can resuscitate a baby doesn't mean that we should. Delivery of a peri-viable newborn must include risks and benefits of delivery methods to mom and risk and benefits of preterm delivery and resuscitation to the newborn.

What's the role of corticosteroids?

* stimulates the development of alveoli in premature fetal lungs in order to optimize transition to external environment

* can significantly improve outcomes

* recommend a single course if patient presents with preterm labor (or need for delivery due to maternal health concerns like early-onset severe preeclampsia) between 23 wga and 33w6d if you anticipate delivery within 7 days

* can repeat the course if greater than 2 weeks have passed after first course

* can recommend single course between 34 wga and 36w5d if i) no prior steroids, ii) membranes intact, iii) patient not diabetic (and don't delay delivery to complete course)

Regimens:

a. betamethasone 12-mg IM q24 hrs for 2 dosesb. dexamethasone 6-mg IM q12 hrs for 4 doses

Should I mag or should i not?

* if <32 wga, start mag for fetal neuroprotection

* mag isn't a reliable tocolytic agent

* if patient is on mag for fetal neuroprotection, adding on a tocolytic agent can still be considered, but be careful with b-agonists and Ca-channel blockers (synergistic w/ mag sulfate, so may cause hypotension); go with indomethacin

Should I recommend antibiotics?

* intrauterine infection is a well known cause of preterm labor and delivery

* antibiotics haven't been found to be helpful outside of PPROM at <34 wga ("latency" abx)

* latency antibiotics have been found to improve interval from time of PPROM to delivery, ↓ risk of chorio, neonatal infection, and need for neonatal oxygen therapy (Cochrane Review) in patients who present w/ PPROM at <34 wga

The regimen:

2x days ampicillin 2 g IV q6hr PLUS erythromycin 250 mg IV q6hr THEN 5x days amoxicillin 250 mg PO q8hr PLUS erythromycin 333 mg PO q8hr

* erythromycin and azithromycin are equally efficacious, but the latter is cheaper and better tolerated from GI standpoint

* amoxicillin-clavulanic acid (augmentin) associated with higher risk of neonatal necrotizing enterocolitis (NEC) in some studies, therefore not recommended

If PCN allergic:

Azithromycin 1 g PO x1 at time of admission PLUS 2x days cefazolin 1g IV q8hr THEN 5x days cephalexin 500 mg PO four times daily

* if severe PCN allergy, substitute cephalosporins for gentamicin/clindamycin

* at 34 wga, it's prudent to recommend IOL (risks versus benefits)

What can be done to prevent preterm delivery?

* hydration, bed rest, nor tocolytics in asymptomatic women have been found to be helpful prophylaxis against preterm delivery

* plus there's potential harm from decreased activity: ↑ risk VTE, ↑ bone demineralization, and general de-conditioning

* Atosiban is a maintenance tocolytic that isn't FDA approved for use in the US

What about preterm delivery in multiple gestations?

* no clear data to support the benefit of steroids or mag sulfate for fetal neuroprotection in multiple gestations

* many experts extrapolate that benefits outweighs risk, though

* tocolytics: risks outweigh benefits in multiple gestations

Born Free Method: The Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Notes for this episode are found on Substack

Work with Nathan:

Beloved Holistics | Born Free Method | Clear & Free | Twins-Breech

Medical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.

Music provided by RealMovieScores / Pond5

Dr. Powell is a naturopathic physician with her master’s degree in public health. She’s a doula, as well, as she has a wealth of knowledge when it comes to interpreting stool analyses and supporting the gut in pregnancy and postpartum. We met when I called Genova Diagnostics for support in interpreting a client’s GI Effects stool analysis. Now we’re friends, and I wanted to share her with the world.

Speaking of stool analyses, the reason that I prefer GI Effects is because I have run all of the major stool analyses (GI-Map, GI360, etc.), and GI Effects found several problem areas that were missed by the others. GI Effects gives you an impression of the degree of inflammation in the gut, pancreatic function, gut flora, presence of parasites, and digestion and absorption of proteins/fats/carbs. Plus, when I started running these analyses on clients, I loved that I was able to arrange for consults with Genova consultants to go deep into the results.

In this conversation, Dr. Powell teaches me about:

* What can a stool analysis tell you about your health?

* What is the optimal frequency and consistency of poop? (We say poop a lot in this episode…try to get over it)

* What might reflux or bloating tell you about your gut function?

* How do you select a probiotic?

* What role does diet play in gut health?

* What role does the gut play in hormone health?

* How can you optimize gut function in pregnancy and postpartum?

* Chiropractics and gut function

* Calcium D-Glucarate, vitamins, fermented foods, milk thistle, and more…

We go deep in this one. Enjoy.

Find Lahnor Powell, ND, MPH on Instagram. Her practice is called Okana Care.

Notes for this episode

Work with Nathan: Beloved Holistics | Born Free Method | Clear & Free | Twins-Breech Training

Medical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.

Music provided by AudioKraken / Pond5

I’ve been interpreting DUTCH tests for a few years, and it seems that the rabbit hole gets deeper and deeper. If you work with women as a practitioner, you need at least be aware of DUTCH.

Using urine metabolites (DUTCH Complete and Cycle Mapping) or salivary metabolites (DUTCH Cortisol Awakening Response), I am able to get a bird’s eye view of how the adrenals, ovaries, and liver are working in sync to support the overall wellbeing of my female clients from the standpoint of hormone production and detoxification. No test is perfect, but a multiple-day collection is nearly always superior to lab draws in my functional medicine practice.

Kelly Ruef, ND, is one of the clinicians on-staff at DUTCH, and she helps people like me interpret client results.

On a recent call, I invited her to come share some insights about DUTCH with you, and this is the conversation that ensued! Enjoy!

Here are some sample reports for DUTCH Complete, DUTCH Cycle Mapping, and DUTCH Cortisol Awakening Response in case you want a visual aid as you listen to this conversation!

Notes for this episode are found on Substack

Work with Nathan: Beloved Holistics | Born Free Method | Clear & Free | Twins-Breech Training

Medical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.

Music provided by AudioKraken / Pond5

I invited Tony Ebel, DC, interactive chiropractor and founder of PXDocs, to come speak to my Born Free Method community members because he’s brilliant. But he’s not just brilliant, he’s also awesome. Tony is the sort of guy with whom I could enjoy a bourbon and talk about my vulnerabilities as a father, the cult of medicine, and difficulties in my relationship. He’s a regular guy…

But from this regular guy, I’ve gained some incredible insights about what he calls the “perfect storm”. When I say insights, I mean validation.

We met through an Instagram post that I posted a year or so ago in which I presented the story of a woman who had a child with autism spectrum disorder, and she was asking me if thought that perhaps a hypoxic injury in her birth could have caused the autism. While I don’t believe that a hypoxic injury alone could be responsible (and proving that would be impossible), I did consider the influences of the myriad of other stressors put on little babies and whether these stressors, in combination, might overwhelm an already fragile nervous system within a baby that experienced relative hypoxia during childbirth.

Tony jumped on that post, and we’ve been friends every since. I soon found myself on one of his live webinars where he discusses how the combination of environmental toxins, poor co-regulation with the parents (e.g. long NICU stay), subluxation during birth, or the myriad of issues related to cesarean birth might impact a child’s lifelong health. And even better: what to do about it.

You might be thinking, “What business does a chiropractor have in speaking about birth?”

Well, like other chiropractors who have come on the podcast such as Elliot Berlin, Lindsey Cantu, and Kaleb Valdez, these practitioners often have to fix the problems that we generate through our overly-interventive approach to childbirth in the conventional model. They are sounding an alarm…and we have been slow to respond.

There was a recent post on another OBGYN’s Instagram page meant as an eye-roll in response to another chiropractor’s suggestion that perhaps cesarean birth might impact how the sutures of the fetal skull and its orientation around the vertebral spine through the atlas and cervical spine might impact a child’s health. I commented with the suggestion that perhaps we should listen to what he has to say rather than discount is completely carte blanche because he isn’t an OBGYN. I got trashed.

But I ask Tony about this hypothesis in this interview, and he unpacks it beautifully.

Perhaps there is a reason that baby’s do better - on average - when born vaginally versus abdominally?

What do we have to lose through consideration of the myriad of issues that c-section might cause, especially given that we can all agree that 37% of babies being born in our country by c-section is problematic?

In this conversation with Dr. Ebel, we also discuss the ideal timing and frequency of newborn chiropractic care (spoiler: immediately), issues with vertebral joint subluxation, the neuroendocrine-immune (NEI) system, PANDA/PANS, and laying a healthy foundation for our kiddos through proper nutrition and life modification.

Disclaimer: This episode is not meant to demonize c-sections or OBGYNs. It’s a call to action to reserve the operating room for only the necessary cesareans…and most of the c-sections women are undergoing aren’t necessary. And often they were provoked by a laundry list of interventions, perhaps also unnecessary in most cases.

If you had a c-section - or end up having a c-section - Tony has some advice for you, too! This interview was conducted in front a live audience with Born Free Method Community members, so there’s also a lively Q&A throughout the conversation. Our community gets back-stage access to all of these interviews. Consider joining us so that you don’t miss out!

Find Dr. Ebel and his cadre of awesome practitioners at PXDocs.com. Check out his amazing podcast “ExperienceMiracles™”, on which I was a recent guest. And you can learn more about him on Instagram.

I just launched a special program that starts in 7 weeks, which is directly related to nervous system regulation. Your body is an instrument, and the sounds that it creates can have a host of influences on your physiology, which is ever-the-more-important in childbirth. This 40-day 1st chakra chanting program start in January, and it’s a courageous collaboration with Maryn Azoff, of Vocal Transformation. Learn more about this program HERE. We are limiting the spots to 100 people (a couple counts as one). When you are ready to enroll, go HERE.

Notes for this episode are found on Substack

Work with Nathan:

Beloved Holistics | Born Free Method | Clear & Free | Twins-Breech Training

Medical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.

Music provided by AudioKraken / Pond5

Born Free Method: The Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Pairs well with the 2021 Russian River Pinot Noir Davis Family Vineyards 

Five Pearls

1. Cell-free DNA screening has the best sensitivity and specificity of all screening methods. But before you order it, it's best to get a prenatal ultrasound

2. Best non-cell-free screening modality is the sequential integrated serum screen (1st-tri serum + NT ultrasound + 2nd-tri serum)

3. Formal anatomy survey should be offered at 18 - 22 wga; can identify soft markers for T21 and T18

4. Prenatal genetic screening should be offered to all pregnant women regardless of risk profile

5. Anything that doesn't add up, it's best to just refer to a genetics counselor or even your friendly MFM for clarification.

The (very) Basics of DNA and Reproduction

* apart from RBCs and cornified cells of your skin, hair, and nails, every one of your body's cells has a nucleus

* gametes (sperm or ova) are haploid, meaning their nuclei contain 23 chromosome

* somatic cells are diploid, meaning their nuclei contain 23 pairs of chromosomes (46 chromosomes total)

* when a sperm meets an ovum, magic happens!

* the sperm fertilizes the egg to create a zygote: the 23 chromosomes of the sperm combine with the 23 chromosomes of the ovum

* for the next 24 hrs, the zygote undergoes rapid, mitotic division ("cleavage"); after about 100 cells have been formed, it's called a blastula

* the total mass of the original zygote has not changed, it has merely divided, and each individual cell is called a blastomere

* the blastula consists of a spherical layer of cells called the blastoderm surrounding a yolk-filled cavity called a blastocoel.

* in mammals, the blastoderm arranges itself into an inner and outer layer of cells, the embryoblast and trophoblast, respectively. The former will go on to form the fetus, the latter the placenta.

Illustration credited to Libretexts.org (click image for source)

* the embryoblast undergoes gastrulation, where it rearranges itself into three germ layers: endoderm, mesoderm, and ectoderm, and the fetus gradually develops from here

* any chromosomal defect - whether parts missing, extra copies, or missing copies - can lead to abnormalities in the development of the fetus

Illustration credited to Libretexts.org (click image for source)

Epidemiology of chromosomal abnormalities

* chromosomal abnormalities are found in 1-in-150 pregnancies

* they are more common in the 1st trimester (aneuploidies are the most common reason for early pregnancy loss)

* incidence of aneuploidies increases proportionately with maternal age and presence of a paternal chromosomal abnormality or translocation

* Trisomy 21 (Down syndrome) is the most common chromosomal aneuploidy among live infants (1-in-700 live births)

* although risk of aneuploidies correlates w/ maternal age, most T21 kids are born to young women because overall, young women have more children than older women

* Trisomy 18 (Edward syndrome) is the 2nd most common (1-in-3000)

* Trisomy 13 (Patau syndrome) is the 3rd most common (1-in-6000)

* the most common sex chromosome aneuploidy is 47, XXY (Klinefelter syndrome), which is seen in 1-in-500 males

* the only viable monosomy is 45, X (Turner syndrome), which is seen in 1-in-2500 females and is unrelated to maternal age

* unlike aneuploidies, copy number variants are independent of maternal age

* a copy number variation is a type of duplication or deletion event that affects a considerable number of base pairs within a chromosome; it can be detected on microarray

* in pregnancies where the mom is age 36 or less, microarray abnormalities are more common than aneuploidies

* prenatal genetic screening should be offered to all pregnant women

* if a screen is positive, diagnostic testing should be offered

Single time point screening approaches

Cell-free DNA screening

* can be used as early as 9-10 wga

* can detect sex of fetus

* genetic material is found in maternal circulation

* derived from placental trophoblasts

* in pregnancy, of the cell-free DNA found in maternal circulation, 3-13% is fetal in origin (increases as pregnancy advances)

* most sensitive and specific for common aneuploidies

* sex chromosome results for patients who have undergone organ transplant will be affected by the sex of the organ donor so not recommended for these patients

* overall best screen: 98-99% sensitivity for T21, T18, T13; 0.13% combined false positive rate (also extremely low false negative rate)

* before you send a cell-free DNA screening, best to get a prenatal ultrasound to (1) confirm dating, (2) detect obvious fetal anomaly, (3) detect presence of multi-gestation pregnancy, and (4) confirm viability, any of which can influence cell-free DNA screening results

* if the final result is: "no result reportable" or "results uninterpretable", the pregnancy is at higher risk for chromosomal abnormalities

* can detect some microdeletions, less common aneuploidies like T16 and T22, and large copy changes but false positive rates haven't been established (if any of these are detected, refer for diagnostics)

* lower PPV rate in younger patients given that fetal chromosomal abnormalities are less prevalent in younger patients (Table 3)

First-trimester screening

Credit to The Fetal Medicine Foundation

* most accurate at 10 - 14 wga (38 - 84 mm CRL)

* includes nuchal translucency (NT) ultrasound and serum biomarkers (PAPP-A, and hCG)

* PAPP-A = pregnancy associated plasma protein A

* hCG = human chorionic gonadotropin

* these values are used in conjunction with maternal age, weight, race, number of fetuses, and history of aneuploidy to create a composite likelihood score of common trisomies (T21, T18, and T13) (see Table 2)

* NT ≥ 3mm is an independent risk factor for fetal aneuploidies and fetal cardiac defects

NT ultrasound alone

* NT alone detects 70% of aneuploidies

* adds nothing of use to cell-free DNA screening in a singleton gestation

* more on first-trimester ultrasound below

Fetal anatomic survey

* offered at 18 - 22 wga

* full head to toe ultrasound assessment of the fetal anatomy

* offered to all patients regardless of decisions around 1st or 2nd trimester screening

* can identify soft markers for T21 (echogenic intracardiac focus, thickened nuchal fold, renal pelvis dilation, and echogenic bowel) and T18 (choroid plexus cysts)

* T18 and T13 are likely going to have major structural anomalies notable on ultrasound; 27% of T21 fetuses will have major anomalies

Second-trimester screening

* "Quad screen": hCG, dimeric inhibin A (DIA), unconjugated estriol (ue3), and alpha fetoprotein (AFP)

* offered b/w 15 - 22w6d

* composite score (along w/ maternal data) provides likelihood for T21, T18, and neural tube defects (see Table 2)

* some labs offer a triple screen (quad screen without inhibin), but it's not as effective and more costly than the quad so don't bother

Combined first- and second-trimester screening

* combines first-trimester serum screening, NT ultrasound, and second-trimester serum screening, which improves overall accuracy and detection rates (see Table 2)

Integrated screening

* first-trimester serum screen, NT ultrasound, and second-trimester serum screen performed and a final score is given at the end

* if NT ultrasound not available, lower detection rate than if NT ultrasound were included, but similar detection rate of first trimester screening

Sequential and contingent screening

* same as integrated, but a score is given after the first-trimester screening so that diagnostics can be provided earlier rather than waiting until after second-trimester screening if risk of aneuploidy or neural tube defect is sufficiently high to warrant further investigation

* diagnostics would consist of CVS or amniocentesis depending on timing, though often preceded by cell-free DNA screening

How should women be counseled about the risk for fetal chromosomal abnormalities?

* use Table 1 to give your patient information about their risk of fetal chromosomal abnormalities based on age, history of prior pregnancies affected by fetal chromosomal abnormalities, and their personal and family genetic history

* review all screening methods

* don't do both cell-free DNA screening and integrated/sequential screening simultaneously as it's not cost effective and you won't know what to do with discordant results

What if my patient's screen is positive?

* well first, remember that screens are not diagnostic tests

* give them the composite risk of chromosomal abnormality

* false positives on cell-free DNA screening are more rare than other screening methods, but can be seen in the event of mosaicism (presence of normal and abnormal cells in the fetus), maternal malignancy, a duplicated chromosomal region, or in vanishing twin syndrome

* refer for diagnostic testing if patient desires to know for sure

* even if cell-free DNA screening suggests aneuploidy, diagnostics will help determine if its a trisomy or translocation (important because a translocation can come from either parent and can be passed to future generations)

* consider how this information might be important to them

What if my patient's screen is negative?

* pretty great chance that there is no fetal chromosomal abnormality, but nothing in pregnancy is guaranteed

* diagnostic testing can still be offered if patient is concerned, particularly if new findings emerge as pregnancy progresses

* cell-free DNA screening has extremely low false negative rate, but can result from mosaicism, low fetal fraction (if performed at <9 wga), and lab error

* you could offer repeat cell-free DNA screening, but this might delay diagnostics; if ultrasound findings are consistent with chromosomal abnormality, it's probably best to go to diagnostics

More on first-trimester ultrasound

Cystic hygroma (click image for source)

* absence of nasal bone is also a marker for aneuploidy (49% sensitivity, 1% false positive rate)

* increased NT is associated with genetic syndromes along with anomalies like cardiac defects, abdominal wall defects, and diaphragmatic hernia (even if normal chromosomes found on diagnostic testing)

* if NT is increased along length of fetal spine, this is called a cystic hygroma (55% will have abnormal karyotype like T21, monosomy X, and T18); if karyotype normal, 30% will have a major congenital anomaly (e.g. cardiac, urinary, and CNS)

How to screen for fetal chromosomal abnormalities in twin gestation pregnancy?

* none of the screening methods are as predictive in twin pregnancy

* think about it: dizygotic twins are more common, and they have different genetic makeup

* even monozygotic twins with discordant karyotype have been described

* combined first-trimester screening (for twins) will detect 90% of fetuses with T21 (5% false positive)

* NT ultrasound is just as useful in twin gestations compared to singleton

Should patients who underwent IVF accompanied by pre-implantation genetic testing still consider screening?

* in theory, there's no benefit, but we don't have enough data to guide this decision

* lab errors and false negatives happen

What other information about the pregnancy can be gleaned from screening for fetal chromosomal abnormalities?

* low or high fetal fraction on cell-free DNA screening is independently associated with adverse pregnancy outcomes related to placental dysfunction and hypertensive disease

* low PAPP-A on first-trimester serum screen is associated with higher risk of SAB, IUFD, neonatal demise, growth restriction, preterm birth, placental abruption, and preeclampsia

* elevated AFP, DIA, or hCG on second-trimester serum screen is associated with high risk for IUFD, growth restriction, and preeclampsia

* all poor PPV, though, so not reliable alone as screening tests for these outcomes

Also mentioned in the podcast:

* My favorite prenatal vitamin: Wenatal (free fish oil with this link!)

* My men’s intimacy coach, Ted Riter

* Zoom link for information session on a special opportunity in collaboration with Maryn Azoff of Vocal Transformation. (Mark your calendar! October 30th, 7:30pm ET!)

Notes for this episode are found on Substack.

Work with Nathan:

Beloved Holistics | Born Free Method | Clear & Free | Twins-Breech

Medical Disclaimer: Born Free Method: The Podcast is an educational program. No information conveyed through this podcast should be construed as medical advice. These conversations are available to the public for educational and entertainment purposes only.

Music provided by AudioKraken / Pond5

Born Free Method: The Podcast is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.