Explorez tous les épisodes du podcast Blazing Grace Radio

Mike discusses emails from men and women who have written to Blazing Grace looking for help to provide a glimpse of the real world pain and suffering from sexual sin that many are going through in the church.

Onlyfans is 7 billion dollar “Do it yourself porn site”… Pornhub receives massive numbers of visits… AI porn is exploding… The US is the number 1 producer and consumer of porn in the world… Many turn to pornography for sex education, while many churches barely touch the topic. Is there anything wrong with pornography? After all, aren’t the actresses in those films having the time of their life? Mike takes a hard look at the truth, including comments from former porn actresses he’s talked with.

Leslie Vernick is a speaker, author, counselor and relationship coach. She is the author of seven books, including he Emotionally Destructive Relationship and her most recent The Emotionally Destructive Marriage. She has received the American Association of Christian Counselors Caregiver Award, and been married to Howard for over 43 years. In this broadcast Leslie shares her story with the abuse and neglect she suffered from her mother, setting proper boundaries, and what the healing and recovery process looks like for a wife in a marriage with porn and sexual sin.

David Zailer is the founder of Operation Integrity, a Christ-centered organization that helps men and women heal from addictions and transform their lives. In this second of two shows, David continues with his mother’s suicide and how it impacted him, beginning with having to clean up the room where she ended her life with a gun.

David Zailer is the founder of Operation Integrity, a Christ-centered organization that helps men and women heal from addictions and transform their lives. In this first of two broadcasts, David shares his story of growing up with a narcissist father, being molested multiple times as a youth, including once at church, and his mother’s suicide.

Jim Tilley, PhD is a clinical psychologist and pastor. In this second of two broadcasts, Jim and Mike discuss avoiding the pitfalls of the world we live in, drawing closer to Jesus, and the epidemic of sexual sin, which, as Jim describes, is the number 1 issue that must be addressed in the church today.

Jim Tilley, PhD is a clinical psychologist and pastor. In this broadcast Jim and Mike discuss what helping pastors who are struggling with pornography or other forms of sexual sin looks like, and the challenges and temptations pastors face. Jim quotes a survey showing that 1/6 of pastors are having an affair with a woman from their flock.

Many who come to us for help are struggling with distorted core beliefs, that is, the lies of the heart. Some of those lies may be: I’m on my own I’m not good enough I am rejected I must do something to earn love I must be perfect God is too busy for me Love must be earned I cannot be loved as I am Porn is love, the only love I can have In this episode, Mike gets into what the process of breaking these strongholds looks like.

In a post-truth culture, facts and truth lose their value in political and public debate – facts and truth become secondary to the individual’s point of view. In our post-truth culture, there is a lack of concern about getting caught in the act of lying – truth has become irrelevant. Mike gets into how living in a post-truth culture is affecting us, and whether there are still consequences for telling lies.

Jan Coleman (formerly Villarubia) is a former porn actress and former prostitute who turned to Jesus Christ. Jan is now working in Germany, where she called in from, with an organization called Kainos. Kainos provides education about the horrors of human trafficking, and they go into brothels and strip clubs to offer the hope of Jesus Christ. In this broadcast Jan shares her experience going into brothels, and the need to cut off the demand of porn, which feeds sex trafficking. In this 2nd of 2 interviews, Mike plays a clip from when he interviewed Shelley Lubben in 2005; Shelley played a major role in rescuing Jan from the porn industry. Mike and Jan discuss the damage the porn industry inflicts on its actresses and actors, and the tragic end of Shelley Lubben’s life.

Jan Coleman (formerly Villarubia) is a former porn actress and former prostitute who turned to Jesus Christ. July 25, 2022, Mike interviewed Jan and she shared story of the trauma, manipulation, and coercion she went through while making films for the porn industry, including when she was gang raped by 25 men and becoming suicidal. Jan is now working in Germany, where she called in from, with an organization called Kainos. Kainos provides education about the horrors of human trafficking, and they go into brothels and strip clubs to offer the hope of Jesus Christ. In this broadcast Jan shares her experience going into brothels, and the need to cut off the demand of porn, which feeds sex trafficking.

In this second of two broadcasts, Mike shares and expands on quotes from Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Oswald Chambers (1874-1917), Vance Havner (1901-1986), Amy Carmichael (1867-1951) and Charles Spurgeon (1834-1892), including the following from Charles Spurgeon: “I wish the Lord’s power would come upon some of His people who do nothing – that they may be dreadfully miserable and so unhappy that they cannot stay at home but are compelled to start out and do good. It would be a blessing if every one of us felt “Perhaps there is something more I could do for Christ; I shall do it at once. Perhaps there is something I might give to Christ, some Christian service I might be involved in. Perhaps God has given me a talent I have never used or I have treated like an old sword that hangs up unfurbished. We live in such a dark world that we must not waste the tiniest piece of candle.”

Many of the saints who have gone before us had single minded focus when it came to their relationship with God, doing what they could to shut out distractions so they could give their lives fully to Him. In a time when distractions and entertainment are the norm, those who have gone before us offer wisdom on living a life that counts for eternity. In this first of two broadcasts, Mike shares and expands on quotes from Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Oswald Chambers (1874-1917), Vance Havner (1901-1986), Amy Carmichael (1867-1951) and Charles Spurgeon (1834-1892).

Jim Tilley is a former pastor with a PHD in clinical psychology. In this second of two broadcasts Jim continues the discussion the story of his journey to hope and healing, which includes watching his father videotape young women at a swimming pool in front of Jim’s mother when Jim was 13, (his father, who was an elder of a church, ended up doing prison time) the lies that were implanted in Jim’s heart at an early age, his struggles with the worship of women, porn and masturbation, 3 major depressive episodes… and his journey to finding Jesus and freedom. Jim also talks about the affect that his struggles had on his marriage.

Aaron is the discipleship pastor at Tomoka Christian Church in Ormond Florida. He has been a worship leader, student pastor, and senior pastor. In this second of two interviews, Aaron discusses his home state, Florida, which is: #4 in searches for terms like sex and porn (Google Trends, 2022-2023) #1 in affairs and adultery (Ashley Madison) #3 in sex trafficking (US national hotline) Aaron discusses that sex trafficking is a problem at Disneyworld, the need for prayer, and more.

Aaron Sweigart is the discipleship pastor at Tomoka Christian Church in Ormond Beach, Florida. He has been a worship leader, student pastor, and senior pastor. In this first of two broadcasts, Aaron shares his story, including being molested as a 3 year old and his journey to recovery from porn addiction.

In this second of two shows on questions, Mike asks: 1. Why aren’t we talking about youth leaving the church? Youth have been exiting the church since the 1990s. 2. Why aren’t we talking about suicide? Especially since it’s now the second leading cause of death among teenagers. 3. Why aren’t our churches houses of prayer? Do we believe in the power of prayer as much as we say we do?

In this first of two shows, Mike asks the following questions: 1. Why are we so isolated? From Mike Frost, Australian director of Tinsley Institute “I’ve lost count of the number of Christians who’ve told me they either stopped attending church or left their church to join another one because they couldn’t make any friends there. They report that the church people were friendly enough. They were hospitable and welcoming. As one person told me, “They’re nice to you, but no one becomes your friend.” 2. Why aren’t we talking about the occult? Among others, Jay Z, Taylor Swift, and Jonathan Roumie have shown publicly that they are into the occult. 3. Why aren’t we talking openly about sex, porn, and masturbation in the church?

In this second of a two part series, Mike continues discussing Lifepoints for recovery and healing from porn and sex addiction, including: Resting in silence Face your emotions Soak in God’s word Personal worship Practice contentment Time in nature Pursue your spouse Be kind to your spouse Have sex with your spouse Embrace your true identity

In this first of two shows, Mike gets into what he calls Lifepoints for recovery and healing from sexual sin, which include: No more lying Take ownership of sin Ongoing support & accountability Cut it off (Matt 5:27-30) Adjust priorities Exercise Healthy eating Reduce entertainment Reduce internet/phone time Go after God Make prayer a priority Slow down… and more.

Naghmeh Abedini Panahi; ex-wife of Saeed Abedini, who was imprisoned in Iran for his Christian faith, returns. In this second of two broadcasts, Naghmeh discusses her new book, “I Didn’t Survive, Emerging Whole After Deception, Persecution, and Hidden Abuse.” The following is a quote from her book in reference to when she exposed the physical and emotional abuse in her marriage:

“By speaking up about Saeed’s (her ex-husband’s) abuse I was damaging the cause of Christ giving the church a bad reputation to the world… I was judged to be a liar, an adulteress, and a Jezebel, who was trying to take the lead in the family by drawing boundaries regarding the abuse. Many people were upset because they hadn’t gotten the happy ending they had hoped for. Becoming an outcast of the church was devastating. I was left bare and bleeding by the side of the road, untouchable by religious leaders. I was advised by several prominent Christian leaders to backtrack my statements and cover up the abuse or I would no longer be useful for ministry. Covering it up meant moving forward with a book deal and a movie deal, continuing to receive invitations to speak and receiving the praise of the Christian community. Not covering it up meant losing everything.”

In this broadcast Mike and Naghmeh discuss the Great Coverup of sexual sin and abuse in the church.

Naghmeh Abedini Panahi; ex-wife of Saeed Abedini, who was imprisoned in Iran for his Christian faith, returns. In this first of two broadcasts, Naghmeh discusses her new book, “I Didn’t Survive, Emerging Whole After Deception, Persecution, and Hidden Abuse.” Topics include coming to Christ as a youth when her parents were muslims (they later came to know the Lord), the idol of comfort, meeting Saeed Abedini in Iran, promiscuity before marriage, and the physical beatings (including being raped on the first night of their honeymoon) by her ex-husband.

Dr Anna Lembke, MD is the professor of psychiatry at Stanford University School of Medicine and chief of the Stanford Addiction Medicine Dual Diagnosis Clinic. She is the author of Dopamine Nation: Finding Balance in the Age of Indulgence In this broadcast she shares how our brains aren’t wired to handle the culture of overbundance we live in, how we’re prone to addictions of many kinds, including addiction to smartphones, online shopping, video games, porn, and more, the effects of addiction on brain chemistry, and steps we can take to overcome.

The outside world is watching the church. They see the constant flow of headlines showing that Christians are being exposed and arrested for sexual sin. During the Christmas holiday, a group made a large number of posts on our Facebook page attacking the ministry and the church in general. They also posted the comments and links to the news articles below:

* The average settlement in recent sexual abuse cases against the Catholic Church is around $300,000 – $400,000. To date, Catholic dioceses in the U.S. have paid over $3 billion in compensation to sexual abuse victims.

* The Bible Belt is the largest consumer of pornography

* Youth pastor sentenced to 45 years for exploiting children

* “Let’s ignore all of the cheating on spouses that goes on that explicitly tells you not to in the Bible.”

* May 27, 2022 — The Southern Baptist Convention released a long-secret list tracking sex abuse allegations against hundreds of pastors and others. Southern Baptist Convention abuse list includes dozens of… Greenville Online

The outside world sees that we’re proclaiming Christ while we’re immersed in sexual sin. Are we ready to face the porn epidemic in the church? Are will we continue to play ostrich in 2024?

Jim Tilley is a former pastor with a PHD in clinical psychology. In this first of two broadcasts Jim shares his story, which includes watching his father videotape young women at a swimming pool in front of Jim’s mother when Jim was 13, (his father, who was an elder of a church, ended up doing prison time) the lies that were implanted in Jim’s heart at an early age, his struggles with the worship of women, porn and masturbation, 3 major depressive episodes… and his journey to finding Jesus and freedom.

In this broadcast Mike gets into what living a life of prayer, or “praying without ceasing,” as God’s word puts it. He begins with the two way blessings of gratitude and thanksgiving, moves into spiritual warfare prayers, surrender and release, and more.

Crissy Outlaw is a Christian public speaker and former American pornographic actress with a career that began in 1999. In 2006, God changed her life, leading her to depart from the adult industry. Her focus shifted to addressing the harm that porn inflicts on society, it’s links to human sex trafficking and the exploitation of women and children. Crissy has spoken at churches, colleges, and media platforms across the United States, and internationally, including appearances in South Africa. In this broadcast, she shares her story.

Mike shares stories from a recent trip to Finland, the UK, and Italy, that includes how youth are turning to witchcraft in droves in Finland, spiritual warfare, and how God touched hearts as he spoke in those countries. Then he gets into a recent article posted on the Irish Sun and a recent letter from a wife whose husband has been into sexual sin.

Rudy the Executive Director of Alaska Correctional Ministries, calls in from Alaska for this second interview with him. He shares the story of how God transformed Gilbert, an inmate at one of their prisons that none of the other prisons in the other states would take. Gilbert has been in prison most of his life and had severe problems with violence, including harming himself, and was experiencing severe demonic oppression.

Rudy is the Executive Director of Alaska Correctional Ministries.  Alaska Correctional Ministries provides Financial, Training and Ministry assistance to 16 chaplains at 13 State Prisons there, in addition to facilitating 2 reentry homes and two 24/7 Intensive Faith Based Discipleship Programs for inmates for long term rehabilitation.

Rudy, a former pastor of 5 churches, spent 4 years in prison due to sexual sin prior to God’s calling to him to his current position. In this broadcast Rudy calls in from a prison in Alaska to share his story.

“For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.  Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing.” These are the works of Paul in 2 Timothy 4, when Paul was nearing the end of his life. In this broadcast Mike works his way through 2 Timothy 4, which is relevant to our times of today. Topics include our need to make our lives count for eternity, the great falling away, not allowing the culture of entertainment to distract us, and the need for God’s strength.

Jennifer Fesefeldt with Kainos E.V., a ministry in Germany that rescues and ministers to prostitutes and those who have been sex trafficked there, calls in from Germany in this second of two interviews with her.

With legalized prostitution, Germany is also sometimes referred to as the bordello of Europe. Germany has an estimated 400,000 prostitutes that are visited by 1.2 million men a day. There are more than 3000 brothels across the country, 500 in Berlin alone.

Jennifer talks of the need to cut off the demand for prostitution, pornography, and sex trafficking by getting to the root problem – those who purchase and use them. She shares how some prostitutes are nervous about going to church for fear of meeting their customers, and the need for the church to address these issues boldly.

Germany is known as the economic engine of Europe. With legalized prostitution, Germany is also sometimes referred to as the bordello of Europe. Germany has an estimated 400,000 prostitutes that are visited by 1.2 million men a day. There are more than 3000 brothels across the country, 500 in Berlin alone.

Jennifer Fesefeldt, originally from California, has been living in Stuttgart Germany the last 15 years. She works for Kainos E.V., a Christian non-profit whose goal is to bring freedom and new life to victims of prostitution, sex trafficking and sexual exploitation. Jennifer is the Program Lead supporting each ministry area in prevention, Intervention and the restorative program New Beginnings. In this first of two shows, Jennifer calls in from Germany to discuss the trauma that prostitutes go through and Kainos’ ministry to them.

Tim Peterson, a counselor who leads the men’s ministry at Blazing Grace, returns to discuss how a couple whose marriage has been traumatized by sexual sin can rebuild and heal. The pain the wife goes through, the husband’s struggle to heal, communication issues, fear, control, and more are discussed.

Lisa Thompson, vice president and director of research for the National Center on Sexual Exploitation, based in Washington DC, returns for the second of two interviews. The widespread problems of pornography, sexual abuse, and child porn in the church are discussed, in addition to what Lisa calls the “Institutional Abuse” of a church that doesn’t equip and warn their congregations in these areas.

The life that Jesus modeled for us included going away alone for long stretches of prayer in silence. These extended times alone in God’s presence are critical to the life of every believer, especially during these days that are chaotic and draining to the soul. In this broadcast Mike shares his experience of a recent 3 day trip alone with God where the Lord showered him with love and revived him.

Lisa Thompson is the vice president and director of research for the National Center on Sexual Exploitation, based in Washington DC. In this first of two interviews, Lisa shares her experience working in anti-trafficking in East Asia, the mission of the NCSE, the widespread problem of pornography and sexual abuse, and especially, the need to protect children from porn.

Bob Allen has been in Christian radio and TV in different roles with ministries such as those led by John Maxwell, John Piper, Michael Youssef, Tony Evans and others. Prior to his involvement in Christian media, Bob was molested as a young man. In this broadcast Bob shares his story, including how God healed him.

Eva Marie Everson returns to the show to discuss her first marriage, which ended in divorce. The story of her first marriage included infidelity and physical abuse. Eva Marie shares how God healed her heart… and warned her before the wedding ceremony.

Eva Marie Everson discusses her new book The Third Path, the need for resting in silence with God, listening prayer, why we struggle with silence, and some of her own struggles.

Using the lyrics of Set Me Free, the Casting Crowns song that is the theme for the show, Mike discusses the cries for help, the torment, and isolation those in bondage to sexual and other types of sin go through, along with the action steps we need to take to break free with the power of God.

Mike continues his discussion on the coming storm of AI girlfriends/boyfriends. In the next wave of pornography, the ability to interact with the performers on screen will be more toxic and addictive than the movies are. Then he gets into Taylor Swift and the occult ceremonies in her concerts, how the occult is being promoted to youth, and, when worship is a clown show.

Mike shares his continuing 20 month journey with Long Covid, finding peace in an extended period of suffering by acceptance of it, and takes a look at the next wave of pornography – AI girlfriends and boyfriends. AI girlfriends/boyfriends will provide a way for users to interact with the figures in those scenes, making them even more toxic and addictive than the non-AI version.

Nicole, a school teacher, was married 27 years ago. She and her husband had 2 sons. As the years went on it came to light that Nicole’s husband had been having affairs with men. In this broadcast Nicole shares the devastating affects her husband’s infidelity with men, which led to divorce, has had, and continues to have, on her and their sons, and her road to recovery.

Many in the Christian community are raving about the movie The Sound of Freedom, which shows the tragedy of sex trafficking. Some ask, “What can we do about it?” Our first action steps must be in the church, where pornography, sexual abuse, and sex trafficking are raging. How can a church that’s corrupt with sexual sin have the moral authority to address sexual issues outside of its walls? Mike discusses the action steps we can take to make an impact. The sounds of freedom and healing are desperately needed by the masses who sit in church and are in bondage or torn apart by the effects of sexual sin.

This program is sponsored by Blazing Grace Ministries.

This radio program is PG13. Parents strongly cautioned – some material may be inappropriate for children under the age of 13.

Jesus’s mission was to comfort those who mourn, bind up the broken hearted, proclaim liberty to captives, and open prison doors for those who are bound. For those who want more than status quo Christianity has to offer, Blazing Grace Radio begins now. And here is your host, Mike Genung.

Hey, Mike Genung here. And welcome back to Blazing Grace Radio. Coming to you from Studio 2, with Ramon keeping everything together here in Phoenix, AZ, where we’re having a record-setting run of days that… 115 degrees or more, and I think it hit 118 in Phoenix recently. So, wow! You really get used to the heat going through that. [LAUGHS]

So before I get going here, I have an announcement: September 16th, I’m holding a From Porn to Grace conference in Cibolo Valley Baptist Church in Cibolo, TX. This is near San Antonio, so it’s just a little bit north. And I’m already hearing from people they’re going to be coming in from other states to come to this conference. And so, if you’re in Texas or if you just want to come and you’re out in another state, then hey, I’d love to meet you.

And then the very next morning, Sunday, September 17th, I’ll be giving their Sunday morning message at that church, at Cibolo Valley Baptist. And you can see the event schedule on the home page at blazinggrace.org for more.

And then… I’m scheduled to be in Finland and the UK towards the end of October and early November – maybe the first two weeks of November, even – speaking in churches in Finland. We have a show… trade show in England around Manchester, I believe, and… but also if you’re in the UK, in Great Britain, I would love to come speak at your church.

One thing I saw the last time we were there, back in June and May, is I just kept seeing and hearing repeatedly in the United Kingdom that, “our churches will not touch this topic.” And I mean… but we see this all over the place in the US, as well as the UK, I mean… One guy who was 70 years old told him – told me he had never heard a message from the pulpit on sex in his life, and this guy is an elder of a church. Another guy in his 70s told me he had heard a message on sex ONCE, and that was 30 years ago.

Both these guys I’m referring to are in Great Britain, and it just really staggers my mind how you can go there. I mean… meaning not touching that topic, when sex is all over the Bible. Beginning from, you know, when Adam knew Eve, all the way through Jacob’s family, which was a disaster, and… Reuben had sex with Jacob’s concubine, and then Judah had sex with one of his son’s daughters. And rape, and prostitution… and these things are all through the Bible. And how can you, how can you not talk about sex? It’s just like there’s just no justification for it. And then when so many people are in bondage to this stuff, it tears me up. [SCOFFS]

And so I’ve been spending more time praying, because I realize, “God, I can’t open this door, these doors in the churches. You have to… you have to break these strongholds at the top,” where Church leadership doesn’t want to touch this, for whatever reason. It doesn’t matter if you’re a verse-by-verse teacher and you know, you don’t… you’re not touching sex for another three years because it’s not in your schedule. I mean, these issues are TODAY, here, right in our face, and the Church is corrupt with this stuff, so we cannot run away from it.

So these days, the Sound of Freedom, the movie on sex trafficking, is the hot topic in Christian circles right now. It’s all over social media. People are talking about the movie, how it touched their heart. And I’ve read… and Jim Caviezel, who played Jesus in The Passion back in 2003, I think it was, is the lead character and he’s a fantastic actor.

I have not seen the movie, but I’m just sharing with you what I’ve seen that a lot of people are saying, “OK, we’ve seen this movie, it got to us. Our children are not for sale.” That’s all… that’s all over the place right now. Now what do we do?

So that’s what I’m going to talk about this show, is, “OK, you’ve watched this movie, now what do we do?” And we have to begin with the Church, because the Church is funding and involved with sex trafficking itself. And the problem is, right now people are asking, “what do we do about sex trafficking outside of the Church, people that are doing these things outside of the Church?” But you have to start with the Church that is supposed to be the salt that preserves the nation and the country. And when you have a Church that is corrupted with pornography and other types of sexual sin, all this is connected together.

So I’m going to read from – read for you several headlines of news articles. These are all recent. Just to give you an example:

Petersburg man, part of a church and school, faces federal child pornography charges. Pornography, for many, takes you – and takes some people – that far into a dark place on the Internet, into child pornography. And child pornography is pure sex trafficking. So once you start with porn, you don’t know where that’s going to take you. And so when when we ignore porn in the church, when we ignore sexual issues in the church, we’re actually facilitating sex trafficking.

Next article, Fresno County youth pastor sentenced to prison for having a relationship with a 16 year old church member.

Next, youth pastor arrested for filming a woman in the shower and hit with new charges for spying on a bridesmaids changing room. It’s just a couple weeks ago.

And another, a woman who was sexually abused as a child by a Texas pastor by a Texas pastor sues him and his ex-wife.

Then at the same time, a couple weeks ago, Texas pastor stuns community with confessing the BDSM and bestiality child porn downloaded on his church computer.

So child porn is always a result of sex trafficking. Somebody kidnapping or taking kids against their will to do these horrible acts.

And then a child porn suspect was a pastor of a Geneva area, Illinois, church.

So when you ignore pornography in the church, when you ignore the fact that 70 to 80% of your men are viewing pornography – along with a third of your women – you’re really saying, “We don’t care. We don’t want to deal with this in our church. We don’t have a problem with sex trafficking.” And oh yes, we do. We are funding the porn industry. We are facilitating it. And by our denial of the issue, we’re actually approving it.

And when I thought about the movie and what I see people all of a sudden saying on social media and elsewhere that I thought, “Man, we’re just way too engaged with entertainment. We’re way too entranced with movies,” because this stuff been going on for 20 years! This is not new! So why is it we’ve been – and these articles I just read you, these things have these are coming out every single week, often every single day. So porn and sex trafficking in the Church, sex trafficking in the church are not new. It’s exploding and gaining more and more momentum.

So the movie’s great! That’s fine. But where have we been the last 20 years, When we’ve allowed this corruption of sexual sin to get a hold of so many people and destroy so many lives? We don’t need to wait for a movie, we just need to wake up to what is destroying everything in the Church.

Porn is a sex trafficking product. We’ve had… and I’ve talked to ex-porn actresses, and they talk about how they get manipulated and coerced into doing acts that they were not told they were going to do by the director or the producer right before they headed into a scene. And the thing that we all have to realize is, “How can a church have any moral authority talking about sex trafficking, when when we’re not dealing with this problem in our own midst?” And we’re actually feeding the problem.

And the Christian Post, just this week I saw an article “Nick – I don’t know, I’m going to mess his name up – Vujicic – this is the headline – Challenges the Delusional American Church to Repent.” And he says, “Demons are laughing in your face.” This is the guy who wrote “Life without Limbs”. He has no arms, no legs, came from Australia, I believe. And he’s spoken all over the world, to crowds as big as 800,000. 40 years old, four kids. And I’m going to read from his interview on The Christian Post:

He says, “We have 100,000 churches and half a trillion dollars in debt for buildings that are half empty. I think most churches are delusional. I don’t pray for revival, I pray for repentance. I don’t think America deserves a single more blessing from God. Not one. We need to repent. And not only do we need to turn away from these things, we also need to equip and encourage the church to go towards this, to move towards repentance. How do you stay out of your porno – your addiction to porn?”

I love it that he says… that finally somebody out there with a big platform is bringing this up!

He stressed the importance of pastors tackling sensitive topics like porn addiction in the church and sex trafficking from the pulpit. “One out of three girls in America have been sexually abused. One out of five boys have been sexually abused,” – and I’m in that number – “Think about that. It’s unbelievable. Kids are dying at parties, getting high, getting drunk like never before.”

So, my friends, have you ever had how or how often, if ever, have you had these topics brought up from the pulpit? It is extremely rare. And why is that? What are we so afraid of?

And Vujicic continues, he says, “We got to grow a strong spine and tell them the truth.” And he continues, “I think the American Church isn’t healing saved people.” Amen, brother, because if you’re too afraid to talk about these issues, you can’t. There’s no way you can help them. And, “when you’re healed, now you’re complete and strength comes out of the overflow to then go help someone else in need.”

I think it’s important. I think we need to go back to the basics. And do you remember Peter’s first sermon in the book of Acts? There – he didn’t say a single word about the love of God or grace. Everything was geared towards repentance. And he said, I think it was twice, “You crucified Christ.” There is no, “God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life.”

Jesus’s first words recorded in one of the gospels was, “Repent”. John the Baptist’s first words recorded – in I think one of the Gospels at least – was, “Repent while turning from sin.” If you don’t have that as a part of what we’re telling people about salvation, we’re missing the boat.

And then he writes, “When is the last time you heard an equipping sermon on how to break free from porn addiction, heal from sexual abuse, or the occult so many are playing with?”

And I have to – I made a mess up there. I read that from my notes. I said that, not him. But he’s, he’s… he’s singing my song there. He’s saying, “Hey, delusional Church, you think the sex trafficking problem is outside of the Church? No, it is big time inside of the Church.”

I’m going to read 1st Corinthians 5, the chapter:

“It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and sexual immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, namely, that someone has his father’s wife. (So dad’s second wife, I suppose, or something like that.) You have become arrogant, and have not mourned instead, so that the one who has done this deed will be removed from your midst.

For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, I have decided to turn such a person over to Satan for the destruction of his body, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.”

Man, if that doesn’t cause fear and trembling, tell me what does! And Paul is challenging, confronting, the Corinthian Church over the sexual sin of one man and what it – what do you think he would say to, as Nick Vujicic called it, “a delusional Church” that doesn’t think it has any problems in those issues?

And then in 1 Corinthians 5, Paul continues:

“Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. Therefore let’s celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity of truth.”

And then he says:

“I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with the sexually immoral people. I did not at all mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the greedy and swindlers, or with adulterers. for then you would have to leave the world. But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is a sexually immoral person, or a greedy person, or an idolater, or is verbally abusive, or habitually drunk, or a swindler – not even to eat with such a person.”

And my whole thrust is always for restoration, so… in the beginning of this chapter, Paul turned this guy over who had been having sex with his dad’s wife over to Satan! That’s way out of my league, and I’m not touching that one. I’ll let other people go there if they want to. But all this should point to… with power and authority, how incredibly critical it is that we talk about sexual issues and some of these other issues in the Church, open full throttle, without holding back. Because there’s a lot at stake here.

I mean, we’re talking about people’s eternity, where they’re going to head up eternity. And as I know from working with the sexually broken, if you let this go long enough, eventually your heart will turn into a rock, into a stone. And then at one point it’s going to start becoming very dangerous where your heart gets so rock-hard that you start drifting away from God at an accelerated rate. And then anything can happen, meaning that you could be one of those who drifts so far away, you fall away. And that is so dangerous.

That’s what’s so grieving about this whole ignoring talking about sex thing, and porn thing in church. It is so dangerous to people. It destroys their faith, it destroys their life, It destroys their families and their marriages. It shreds the wife apart. It tears her self esteem apart, and they have their own… the wives have their own intense battle with spiritual warfare and fear and torn up self esteem and all that comes along with that.

So what do we need to do? We need industrial strength, no holds barred, equipping messages on sexual issues in the Church, Sunday morning, to all age groups. And when I say all, I mean from youth all the way to age 80. Because people don’t usually get hooked when they’re 75 years old. They get hooked when they’re 8, 9, 10.

Most first exposures to pornography happen at home. So that whole, “safe for the whole family” thing, that’s a delusion, too. The Enemy knows how to get into your home, and he knows how to place pornography, whether on the Internet, or in a videotape or whatever, in the right spot for your kid to stumble onto it.

Just recently I interviewed a woman who said she got her first exposure to porn when she was five years old – at her parents house – when a videotape was mixed in with their Disney collection of movies. So, mom and dad, you are delusional if you think your kids cannot stumble on pornography at home. I don’t care what you do. You have to be extremely careful.

So you have to have your guard up. And we have to start talking to kids as early as age 8. We have to give them the sex talk, and sometimes even earlier! Because kids are getting phones, smartphones, that kind of stuff as early as age 3 nowadays. And you… it’s not uncommon to walk into a store and some moms got her kid, toddler, and they got an iPad in front of them and they’re, you know, they’re tapping away on it. I think a lot of parents are – to use Nick Vujicic’s word – “delusional”, too. Thinking that “Ah, my kid’s not going to get hooked,” and you’re wrong if that’s what you think.

We have to get… reach our youth. We have to tell them what pornography is in an age appropriate way. And when they hit the teens, they really need industrial strength message. They need to be broken up into small groups, safe groups. We need to show them what safe sharing is about, which is focusing on listening, and let them share. “Hey, where are you with lust today?”

Break them up into groups of two or three or four boys with boys, girls with girls. You don’t do – mix up the genders, and you make it safe to them and to share. And that’s where healing begins to come. And then you have them all pray for each other. And that’s how this works.

I had a woman on our radio station several months ago say she went to a youth group, and split the girls up from the boys, and asked the girls how many – these are teen girls – were struggling with porn. And she said every single hand went up. Every single hand. I want to burn that into your brain that the chances are really high.

And in your church and in your youth group, 95 to 100% of your youth are somewhere along the line engaged with pornography or sexting or something like this. And some of them are online flirting with somebody who they don’t know who they’re talking to. And you know, it could be somebody from the law, or it could be somebody who’s a sex trafficker. You don’t know this. So we have to start warning people. We have to give them the answers on how to overcome this stuff.

So if you go to blazinggrace.org – our website – we have tons of material on there that’ll give you plenty of information that you can give to your youth and your adults Sunday morning. And I’m available to come speak at your church, or to lead one of our “From Porn to Grace” conferences. So information on that is available on blazinggrace.org.

But I really want to… confront this head on. You know, we cannot sit here and watch our movies and say, “Mmm, that’s really nice. What should I do?” Because what’s going to happen is eventually the Sound of Freedom… all the chatter is going to fade out – probably in another month, maybe two months – and then everybody’s going to go on to the next thing and nothing will change. And the porn epidemic and the epidemic of sexual sin in the Church will continue to blow up. And that’s what really concerns me about this whole movie thing, is people are so fickle when it comes to entertainment and social media. We have fragmented attention spans that lasts about 20 seconds, and then we’re on to the next thing. We need to – I need to really bore on in this with all of you, that we cannot sit there and let this thing go.

Go to your pastor, tell them, “hey, we need to do something.” You can send them the link to our website. We have plenty statistics on there, and surveys, and if you’re struggling go to our website at blazinggrace.org.

We have support groups, some don’t cost a penny that you can get in right now, this – I’m talking about for men and for wives. Simple support groups where you share and then you pray for each other by zoom call.

And then we have our eight week course for men and our ten week course for wives. And these are far more structured. And you’re paired off with another man or woman and you’re working assignments every week and make… reaching out to your prayer and support partner every week. So if you’re struggling, don’t just sit there and lay back in the weeds and expect this thing to go away on its own. It ain’t going to happen.

So I started talking about the Sound of Freedom. Let’s start focusing on bringing the Sound of Freedom into the Church and equipping and ministering God’s – to God’s people on how to break free from the sexual sin that so many of them are in bondage to. So thank you for joining us, and we’ll talk to you next time.

Blazing Grace is a nonprofit international ministry for the sexually broken and the spouse. Please visit us at blazinggrace.org for information on Mike Genung’s books, groups, counseling or to have Mike speak at your organization. You can e-mail us at email@blazinggrace.org or call our office in Chandler, AZ at (719) 888-5144.

Again, visit us at blazinggrace.org, e-mail us at email@blazinggrace.org, or call the office at (719) 888-5144.

This program was sponsored by Blazing Grace Ministries.

Naghmeh Abedini Panahi continues her story. After she went public with her husband’s porn addiction, and physical, verbal, and emotional abuse, the Christian community blew up and turned against her. One nationally known leader of a large evangelical organization asked if she had been having an affair. Comments were made that Naghmeh had taken down the Christian community’s “hero.” Naghmeh’s story reveals that some put celebrity status – looking good – over holiness and truth.

This isn’t far from our church of today that may look good on the outside yet ignores the sexual sin it’s corrupt with.

This program is sponsored by Blazing Grace Ministries.

This radio program is PG13. Parents strongly cautioned – some material may be inappropriate for children under the age of 13.

Jesus’s mission was to comfort those who mourn, bind up the broken-hearted, proclaim liberty to captives, and open prison doors for those who are bound. For those who want more than status quo Christianity has to offer, Blazing Grace Radio begins now. And here is your host, Mike Genung.

Hey, Mike Genung here. Welcome back to Blazing Grace Radio. Thank you for joining us.

This is our second week talking to Naghmeh Panahi. She made national news when she publicly advocated for the release of her then-husband, Saeed Abedini, who was in prison Iran for his Christian faith. And through Saeed’s imprisonment, Naghmeh was able to bring worldwide attention to the plight of persecuted Christians. And she was able to proclaim the Gospel to millions across the globe by speaking at human rights groups, major news outlets, the United Nations at Geneva, European Parliament Congress, and she had personal meetings with both Presidents Barack Obama and Donald Trump. When it came to light in 2015 that Naghmeh had been abused throughout her marriage by her husband, the Christian community suddenly turned on her.

And so we’re picking up this conversation from last week. And Naghmeh, welcome back to the program.

Thank you.

So let’s pick your story up from where you left off.

Yeah, so I… through my advocacy for my husband, God was setting me free. He was building my confidence. And Saeed had gotten a phone, from inside of the prison… and, about a year before he got out, and he was calling me names, I didn’t know at that time why. Later I realized he’d seen my… that I was not the girl that I… that he had, I guess, was able to control. I was becoming more confident. I was becoming more outspoken. And he didn’t like that. And so, he was calling me all sorts of names like Jezebel like, “You’re not submitting to me fully anymore, you’re a Jezebel who wants to have pull over men,” and so… and I was very… and he would say that, because, you know how Israel, the Israelites disobeyed God, that was spiritual adultery, which was worse than human sexual adultery. He would say, “you are committing – because you’re not fully submitting to me – you’re committing spiritual adultery.” So he would call me a whore and just all sorts of names. And I couldn’t understand it why he was attacking me so much when I was trying so hard to get him out. So finally I broke down. I had a meltdown.

I told… I was invited to get a mega church in North Carolina whose pastor was Pastor… Doctor David Chadwick, and after the Sunday service, and after we had a prayer meeting for the person in the church, after that I… we were out in a restaurant and I finally told this pastor and his wife everything, including Saeed’s messages from prison. And this pastor looked at me and he said, “Naghmeh, you know that I’m not just a pastor. I have a doctorate degree in psychology,” and I was shocked that God would have me confess all of this to a pastor who was an expert in this. Just God’s perfect timing and provision. And so he said, from what I understand, he said, “I can’t wrap my mind around it because Saeed is my hero.” But he said, “you are an abused wife,”

And… the pastor was so confused. He just, he’s like, “I got radio tomorrow. I got stuff tomorrow. I’m just going to drop you off at your hotel – we’re going to drop you off at your hotel.” And, you know, “I have an early radio program,” and I had an early flight. So they dropped me off and I Googled abuse, and everything that Saeed had done with the isolation, with… even the silent treatment, with everything, the financial, the emotional, the physical, all of it. It was like someone had looked into my marriage and had written a book. So I was shocked that all the symptoms in my marriage, it was not just a hard marriage. It was actually… abuse. And that’s when I realized, like, “This is not something… that this is like cancer, this can’t be dressed with like Tylenol, this, this needs chemo. This is, like, serious stuff.” And that’s when I stopped all advocacy.

I actually wrote a letter to a group of supporters about what was going on, and it got leaked to media. And by the time I actually landed in Boise, all the media wanted to talk to me because it was leaked that I had written to supporters that Saeed was an abusive husband, and including porn addiction, all of that. So yeah, it became very… a frenzy, media frenzy, and the Christian world went after me. They said I had done it for the fame and the money, which is interesting because when I advocated for Saeed, I had no idea it was going to become such a big story. And, of course, my one of my first phone calls was with Franklin Graham, who… he actually recently confirmed it in a Washington Post report that he, as soon as I picked up the phone, he called, he said, “Are you cheating on Saeed?” Because that’s the only thing he could think of of why I was throwing Saeed under the bus. Although I didn’t ever want it, want this information about Saeed to come out publicly.

So, I just got attacked by everyone including big names, like Franklin Graham, calling me basically an adulterer and just questioning my motive of why I would even call Saeed an abuser. Because at that time Saeed has had become a Christian hero. So the trauma is just the trauma of having realized I had been in an 8 year abusive marriage and I’d known this man at that time for much longer than eight years. More than 10 years. And realizing that, in addition to the response of the Church of shutting me down, and all my followers, everyone, millions and millions of people who have supported me, either stayed silent, or they attacked me and called me all sorts of… questioned my motives of even advocating for Saeed or why I was coming out about the abuse. Basically saying I was cheating on my husband, that’s why I was coming out about the abuse. So that was also pretty devastating.

And this all blew up a year before he was released?

A few months. Which I didn’t know when he would be released. So a lot of people think Saeed got out of prison and then I came out with the information, which would make sense, even though it was like people trying to make up the story of he came out and then I said the information because I was with someone. That’s there in their mind, that’s their story. But no, this information came out a few months before Saeed got out of prison, which I actually didn’t expect Saeed to come out of prison a few months later.

But I have – I had stopped playing the game where… I realized the phone that Saeed had had inside the prison was highly… like even though it was a smuggled phone, it had internet. Like, the Iranian government was using it to get me all riled up. And they would, like, beat up Saeed and I would go to the media, “he got beaten up.” Because Saeed would then call me, “I do – I just came out of solitary consignment. They just hurt me,” and then I would go to the media. And then, in a way, Iran was upping the price for the… for their hostages, including my husband.

And, so, once I stopped playing that game, once I the abuse stuff came out, my really my connection with Saeed was completely cut, I was no longer going to media. I stopped all advocacy in the hopes that our family would come from that world of fame and we would just… hopefully, if we went back to normal. And it was, our family could heal, because a lot of Saeed’s insanity had come from him thinking he was so famous, he’d gotten way worse in prison, and he was all about fame and money now. And, so, I stopped all advocacy and shut everything down. And at that time, Barack Obama was President, and I was promised by Trump and Ben Carson and every… pretty much every candidate that was running for the GOP, I was promised, “If we become president…” like Ted Cruz, all of them told me, like, “we’ll get your husband out.”

So my thinking was end of 20- like end of 2016 – or actually 2017 – when the new president was sworn, it was when maybe Saeed would be released, because that had happened in the Iran hostage crisis in the 70s, is when a new President became… when there was a new President, that’s when they released the American hostages. So I thought he would be released a year later, but he was released a couple months after the abuse stuff came out… like 3 months later, yeah.

So you had intense years, long sexual abuse and physical abuse with your husband, and then you had this incredible weight of what I’m going to define as “spiritual abuse” from the Church community. And how… how did all that affect you?

I think it was like the Peter moment, like, “I’m done, but I can’t be done with Christ, because I have nowhere else to go.” I was saved out of Islam since I was 9 and even though God’s word was so twisted, abused me, by both my husband, and, as you said, by the Christian leaders, I knew I had nowhere else to go by Jesus. And so I clung to God, His word and God gave me Josiah 2:14-16 says, where he talks about setting Israel free, and through His word I discovered that abuse was not okay with him. Submitting to abuse or corruption was not okay with him. That, the putting institution of marriage over the well-being of a person, was not okay with God. That… you know, the same way the religious leaders of Christ’s time cared more about Sabbath than the person wasting away in Sabbath, the religious leaders of our time care more about keeping the marriage statistics thing. “We don’t have as much divorce,” than actually helping the woman and children that are wasting away. They’d rather not touch marriage where, or be part of having to fall away fall apart.

So, either they stayed away from trying to help me, or they forced – like Franklin Graham – tried to force my reconciliation. And so I reading through God the world, I realized that’s not who God is. God cares about my well-being. Not the physical, but when I was under so much abuse, like my mental, I was a dead person. I couldn’t even think for myself. I was… my body was going through a lot of trauma. I developed an autoimmune disease. I just… all this stuff. And through His word I realized that’s not who God is. What my husband has portrayed Him to be or what the church leaders have portrayed Him to be is not Christ himself, and actually my relationship with God grew closer and closer.

So it’s your perspective that what happened was the Christian community made Saeed out to be a hero, and then he got knocked off of that pedestal when the truth came out, and then people were taking that out on you?

Yeah, and you know, they still do that. I think… when, like, when I say about what Franklin Graham did to me, a lot of people get upset and the big thing is, well, “this person is a hero. This person has done so much good for the Kingdom of God.” Well, people focus on the good and that they have done, but they don’t actually realize that the Bible… God doesn’t actually care about the great good we do. It’s obedience to His word, which is how we love others. How we love him and how we love others. So someone can do amazing good work for Christ but abuse his flock or abuse his wife. That, for God, that’s not the priority, is the great work.

But, yeah. The Christian community just attacked me because Saeed had become a hero in their eyes. And, you know, and I was told by Franklin Graham that if if this stuff about my marriage came out, that cause of Christ would be damaged. And that’s what everyone kept saying. If the secrets come out, then you’re damaging the cause of Christ, you’re embarrassing Christianity and all of that. So that’s was… that, that was a way that I was… I guess people try to silence me, saying, “You’re damaging the cause of Christ.”

Well, what we see is that 70 to 80% of Christian men are viewing pornography and involved in other forms of sexual sin, and abuse is a part of a lot of those marriages. And 1/3 of women are falling into the trap of porn, too. And –

Mhmm.

– unfortunately, a lot of churches dodge these issues, which is keeping people in bondage and keeping people in marriages that are being destroyed. And so this is… what you’re talking about, is a wide-ranging problem. That we hide. We pretend that we got it all together, and we don’t.

Yeah, the Church is very sick. Because we’ve had a structure of celebrity pastors and preachers with little… shepherding of the flock. Because we’ve become so big, wolves come in. We’ve moved, the Church moved from the house church structure where everyone knew each other and you can catch someone’s bad behavior, to big buildings where all sorts of people walk in and abuse the flock, and it’s become an epidemic of abuse. It’s like you said, it’s not… it’s not just clergy abusing the flock, sexually and other ways, but also majority of the Church having porn addictions.

It’s we’re… we’re at a church age where the Church is so sick, and so… I would say bedridden. We’ve lost our effectiveness in society. We’re very sick. And that grieves my heart. That breaks my heart because I am – I have been and I still am – I still work with the underground church in Iran and Afghanistan and… and they are how – it’s looking at that and how the Church in Iran is in one of the darkest places in the world. And then looking at that American Church, how we’re strangled up with so much pornography and abuse and it… it really breaks my heart. And I think it’s time for reformation, for change in the way we’ve been doing church.

Well, as you’ve been speaking, Ravi Zacharias comes to mind, where it came out right after his death, where he was manipulating women into giving him massages and even having sex with him. And this was really close to the time he died, this was going on. And then first people getting mad and saying, “why is this coming out now?” But then as more, as the evidence came out, I mean, the guy had more brain power on his pinky than most of us have in our whole body, but it is not about the theology or the doctrine. It’s about, “where’s your heart?”

Exactly. I know I met Lori Ann Thompson, which was the first woman that came out actually, before Robbie died, and he shut her down. He had her sign an NDA. She became very suicidal, the way he shut her down, and tried to prevent her from speaking out, the way he went after her family. And then when he died, I guess some of these women watched his funeral, that he had been sexually abusing, and realized there was another woman named Lori Anne Thompson had come out about it, and they started coming out about it and they realized it was an epidemic. But when he was alive, Robbie was able to silence this victim, and the whole Christian community turned on her. And again, why? Because Robbie did some quote and unquote “amazing work for Christ”.

But he was abusing the flock. But, you know, that people don’t care about that. I think our focus has been so much on you know, Robbie has done so much work for God, and Franklin Graham, and we focus on the great work which God is actually doesn’t. In the last, these men will say to Jesus, like I did these miracles in your name, I did prophesize prophesied me in your name. I cast out demons like and Jesus says, “Get away from me. I never knew you.”

It’s not about those great work that is, we’re so focused on, it’s about obedience to God’s word. And as you said, it’s how are we treating the flock? How are we loving each other? And if that’s not there, then you don’t… “Get away from me. If you you are abusing my sheep, I don’t care how theologically amazing you are, and you’re able to like, talk to Imola or whoever like that means nothing to me. You’re abusing my sheep. You’re using your position of power to abuse my sheep.”

And, so, but we – I think as the Church we’re so used to celebrity pastors, and so used to focusing on great work that, you know, we attack the victim because we don’t want the work to be… you know, damaged because the victims coming out. We were trying to protect an institution with… whether it was the Robbie Zacharias institution, whether it’s the Billy Graham institution, whether it’s the Church institution. We care more of – whether it’s the marriage institution – we care more about saving the institution that seems to be doing some good than actually saving the person that’s wasting away in it.

Well, in First Corinthians 5, first two verses, Paul basically rips the Corinthian church over the sexual sin of one man. And then he says the reason that you don’t do this is because you’re arrogant and you don’t mourn. And I mean, do we really sob over sin anymore? But how can you sob over sin when you won’t even touch it?

Mmm. Exactly. I don’t think we sob over sin anymore. We’ve minimized even porn addiction. Jesus said – I was reading in my devotional space – if your eyes cause sin, gouge it out. Like, God is very serious about even… like, pornography, watching something, and he says take drastic steps. But we don’t really grieve over that. We don’t grieve, because I think we’ve lost sight of the holiness of God. We’re just living. We’re playing Christianity without understanding what a mighty holy God we serve.

Well, and part of what WE do is we have a… as big as an emphasis on helping the wife heal as we do the husband recover. And the wives get left out of this equation a lot, even when the porn epidemic in the Church is mentioned. And the wife is, as you’ve experienced, her heart is shredded, torn apart, it’s very traumatic. And then, I mean, for your husband – or ex-husband – to say it was Godly to watch porn, I mean that’s… a combination of sexual and spiritual abuse right there.

Mmm.

So speak to the wife who is hurting right now.

[sighs] Yeah, for me, the healing came from… I think Josiah 2:14-16 was really big. Where God has, like, called you into the wilderness. There’s a time where you’re you set free from a bondage, whether you stay in the marriage or not, you’re shattered. And the marriage, as you’ve known it, has been shattered. And you are walking into an unknown wilderness that you don’t know where you’re going to get your water, your food, your protection, anything from. But God is calling you to that wilderness, because he wants to be your everything.

And for me, that’s what it was. He became my husband, He became my provider. He became my everything, emotional provider, helping me raise the kids. But I clung to God and I just, my message is “God will not abandon you.” God sees. He’s on your side. And it might seem like the wilderness, but in the wilderness is when you’re going to discover an intimacy with God that is going to carry you through to the Promised Land. So… just keep going. You’re going to have to depend on Him for food, and water, and protection, and guidance, and fire, and cloud, and where to go, the next step, how long to stay, when to move. But He’s – He wants you in that place where He is you’re everything, and He’s the one that’s guiding your life. And He will make something beautiful out of it.

Whether you stay in the marriage or not, that’s, you know, God will guide you of steps that are – that you will take. But I think my message is this “cling to Jesus.” He will get you through. He will bring you out whole. He is our healing. He is our law. And that was, that was my… that’s what when I felt lost and my marriage was falling apart. The marriage, I tried so hard to please, I sought to get my husband out of prison, thinking it’s going to heal our marriage, he’s going to appreciate me. And when it fell to pieces and my husband divorced me and moved on with another woman, I was shattered, because… but through Christ, He’s made me whole. He restored things in my life that I would have never imagined.

Naghmeh, I really appreciate your honesty and all that you’ve shared, and we got a minute left. Anything you want to say?

I guess. How… I don’t know. I don’t think… I think the wilderness is just… and clinging to Jesus. We have Him, no one else does. I minister to Muslim women and they don’t have that relationship. We have it, but sometimes we forget we have that relationship, and we don’t go to God in prayer. We don’t cling to His word. We don’t cling to Him. And I just, my encouragement is we have that we have the King of Kings, President of all Presidents, that we can access anytime we want to. And my encouragement is to do that, for us to spend more time accessing, and just focusing on that relationship that is… that will restore.

Mmm. I want to thank you for coming on board with us and sharing your story. And I just want to encourage you to keep doing what you’re doing, because the truth does need to come out. So…

Amen! And thank you for what you’re doing. God bless.

Thanks! And thank you for joining us. And we’ll talk to you next time.

Blazing Grace is a nonprofit international ministry for the sexually broken and the spouse. Please visit us at blazinggrace.org for information on Mike Genung’s books, groups, counseling, or to have Mike speak at your organization. You can e-mail us at email@blazinggrace.org or call our office in Chandler, AZ at (719) 888-5144. Again, visit us at blazinggrace.org, e-mail us at email@blazinggrace.org, or call the office at (719) 888-5144.

This program was sponsored by Blazing Grace Ministries.

For the past 30 years surveys have shown that waves of youth have exited the church. In this second of two shows, Sean Genung, 31, and Rebekah Genung, 23, join Mike to discuss what they see happening with youth. We begin this broadcast by looking at the results of a survey of youth that showed: “I don’t believe some of the things I hear talked about at religious gatherings.” – 60% “I do not like to be told answers about faith and religion. I’d rather discover my own answers.” 58% “Because other things help me find meaning in my life, I don’t need a faith community.” 56% “I don’t feel like I can be my full self in a religious organization.” 55% “Religious communities try to fix my problem instead of just being there for me.” 54% “Religion, faith, or religious leaders will try to give me answers, but I am looking for something else.” 53% Mike, Sean, and Bekah discuss these topics and more, including the idols that youth and adults are paying homage to.

In September 2012, a news story broke about Pastor Saeed Abedini, an ordained minister with duel American-Iranian citizenship who was arrested in Iran. He had been involved with setting up house churches in Iran and was working on setting up an orphanage. In 2013 he was sentenced to eight years in prison where he was beaten and denied medical treatment.

Saeed’s former wife, Naghmeh, worked tirelessly for Saeed’s release, which took place in 2016. Shortly before Saeed was released, Naghmeh revealed that Saeed had been addicted to pornography and physically, emotionally, and verbally abused her throughout their marriage. In this first of two episodes, Naghmeh shares her story.

This program is sponsored by Blazing Grace Ministries.

This radio program is PG13. Parents strongly cautioned – some material may be inappropriate for children under the age of 13.

Jesus’s mission was to comfort those who mourn, bind up the broken-hearted, proclaim liberty to captives, and open prison doors for those who are bound. For those who want more than status quo Christianity has to offer, Blazing Grace Radio begins now. And here is your host, Mike Genung.

Hey, Mike Genung here, and welcome back to Blazing Grace Radio. I’m coming to you from another 115 degree day here in Phoenix, AZ. I think this is like #21 in a row, with more to come!

So in September 2012, a news story broke about Pastor Saeed Abedini. He was an ordained minister with dual American-Iranian citizenship and he was arrested in Iran. He had been involved in the past, with setting up house churches there, and was working on setting up an orphanage. Then in 2013, he was sentenced to 8 years in prison. And the stories coming out of that prison were pretty dark, where he was beaten, and denied medical care, and it was pretty rough treatment. And I remember watching that story back at that time and praying for his release.

And his wife Naghmeh was… she seemed to be everywhere, petitioning for his release, and getting involved with the US government, and some big name Christian ministries got involved, and… and then Sabadini – or Abedini – was released from prison on January 16th, 2016. And then shortly afterward there were started… stories were starting to surface where he had been abusing his wife, and he was – he had some porn problems. And as we know in our ministry, those two can often go hand in hand, with porn and abuse. It could be physical, emotional or verbal abuse.

So, today I have Saeed’s former wife Naghmeh with me to tell her side of the story. She made national news when she publicly advocated for the release of her then-husband, Saeed Abedini. Through Saeed’s imprisonment, Naghmeh was able to bring worldwide attention to the plight of persecuted Christians, and able to proclaim the Gospel to millions across the globe by speaking at human rights groups, major news outlets, the United Nations at Geneva, the European Parliament Congress, and she had personal meetings with both President Barack Obama and [President] Donald Trump. When it came to light that she had been abused throughout her marriage by her husband, the Christian community suddenly changed on her. So, Naghmeh, welcome to the program.

Thank you for having me.

So let’s get started, and have you share your story.

Yeah, I, since I can… I became a Christian from Islam when I was nine years old. My passion had always been to missions and preaching Muslims for Christ. It wasn’t until my husband, who was very abusive, went to prison in Iran, that God started building me up. Because up to that point I have been so abused, so controlled, that I wouldn’t then rely on my own thinking. I was completely controlled by my husband, and his imprisonment is actually what set me free, where I was able to… I guess I drew close to the Lord, reading His word, and praying more. And through that time is when God revealed to me the abuse I was under and set me free. And, as you mentioned, porn was a big part of our marriage, and it was considered as “godly” to watch and to try to please my husband in a way that would… in a way, it was twisted to show that it was not sin, and that it was… you know, a way that I could serve my husband.

You talked about abuse. What did that look like?

Well, it was very subtle. I didn’t even… when I met Saeed in 2002, I had no idea what narcissism was, or even any clue about emotional or psychological abuse. I knew about physical abuse, but even then I thought it’s someone that gets beaten up all the time and…. it started with, just when I was meeting him, it started with a lot of verbal putting me down, my looks, wanting me to change certain things about myself, where I had entered the relationship, I was very confident. I was becoming more and more… not confident and believing lies about myself and that I wasn’t desirable.

Also, around that time, it was the isolation. I didn’t realize that’s what it was, but just criticizing all my friends… At that time I was a missionary in Iran when I met Saeed, so I didn’t have a whole bunch of friends, but I had made some friends. I had come to Iran about a year early before I met Saeed, so some friends. And then my family would visit, and he was undermining them as not being spiritual, as Saeed was… Saeed was very Pentecostal, casting out demons, and a lot of signs and wonders, and he was basically… really, because I did see a lot of signs and wonders, I guess, he made me really trust in him and not to go to my family members or friends that I used to go for council. So he… Saeed became the only source of truth in my life.

And there was… there was a few physical… it was some pushing and shoving and… but it wasn’t a full-on beating until about a year into our marriage. About a year and a half into our marriage is when the first physical abuse happened. But before then, there was a lot of pushing me away, isolating me. The silent treatment, which is abusive as well, not speaking to me for weeks or months, and or… days, weeks, or months, depending on how much he wanted to punish me, and me begging to talk to him. And yeah, just some, I guess some physical, but at that time I wouldn’t have considered it abuse. Some pushing and shoving and yeah, that’s how it was.

Until about a year, we were so busy with the house church movement, pretty much when I met my husband, we… focused on, we were leading one of the largest house church movements in Iran, so we were busy building disciples. I was actually really busy with that, and traveling, and starting churches, and so our relationship was not so much the focus, even though I knew something was off. But we were so busy, until… November of 2005, we had to flee Iran. So three years. If I met Saeed in 2002, I didn’t… I met Saeed in 2002, I didn’t marry him until 2004. So about three years after we met and about a year after marriage, we had to flee Iran. We were getting arrested a lot, and… I personally had guns pointed to me and told to deny my faith, and it was just getting so intense that we believed that it would actually endanger the house churches if we stayed longer.

And, so, we went to Dubai, and a missionary family… it was around Thanksgiving, and a missionary family had gone to America for sabbatical for six months. So they told us we could use their apartment in Dubai until Saeed could get a visa to America. And the first night that we landed there I was pregnant with my daughter, and I was so tired, I was throwing out… I was searching through the suitcase for my pajamas and Saeed got upset and said “You’re making a mess,” and I said “Who cares?” and that’s when my first full-on beating happened was…

Oh.

He just beat me, kicked me, punched me; head, stomach, everywhere, I was bruised, and I thought I was going to die. I crawled into the bathroom, and I mean I had bumps coming out of my head. I crawled into the bathroom and called his parents. I called my mom. They were, of course, his parents were back in Iran, and my parents were in America. And he never said sorry, I mean… he ended up saying it was just the demonic forces in Dubai that had made him do it, but never true repentance. And at that time I was pregnant with our first… child, our daughter.

So, having come from the Middle East culture, and also the American culture, church culture of purity movement, where if a girl kisses a guy, she’s lost her purity and you’re not supposed to, you know… you’re supposed to keep yourself for your husband, I felt like I was damaged goods. So I didn’t see a way out, in terms of walking away from that marriage. I thought, you know, “I’m stuck and I’m also pregnant, I don’t want to be a single mom.” So I… from that moment on, I guess I learned my lesson? I was walking on eggshells and did everything not to upset him again. And we ended up coming to America and we had our daughter in 2006, and our son in 2008.

So that’s… that’s my… that’s before his imprisonment. And I ended up, I was working until… he, yeah, I was working and we were raising the kids until he… he was traveling back and forth to Iran starting in 2009, when my son was about a year old. And in 2012, he was arrested. And that’s when my whole life changed, I guess, from what I thought was the worst thing that could have happened to me, ended up being… actually, God rescued me.

You met him in 2002. So in the two years that you courted, was there any clue of the physical abuse, or any type of abuse, or the pornography?

No, he was so deceptive. No, because I, well now looking back, of course there was emotional abuse. There was spiritual abuse, he would use Bible verses, but not something… It was very subtle. And even with his porn addiction, he was very deceptive. We had satellite so we could watch TV shows that were outside of Iran, which sometimes they had kissing, and so when the scene would come up with people kissing, he would look away and I thought, “Wow, this is a really pure man that can’t even watch… like, he doesn’t want to watch that.” So no, I… the porn stuff I had no idea. I actually thought, “Wow, this is a very pure person.”

I knew of… of his past that was not very… was… yeah, his past was not good. I didn’t know about the… he didn’t talk about any porn addiction, but I knew he had relationships, there was even an incident of… gang rape, and his behaviors towards women. But all of that, he would say, was before he became a Christian, and he’d become a different person. And so, yeah. I just thought he’s a Paul. I would call him a Paul, because he has such a radical background, where he was trained by Hezbollah terrorist group to attack Israel, and then he was about to murder a pastor, and he got saved. And so… I just thought that’s the past. He’s… when I met him he was a baby Christian, probably two years in the Lord, and he seemed on fire. And so I didn’t… his past didn’t bother me.

It wasn’t til we came to America and I was pregnant with my daughter, and I would look next to my bed and he was gone. And, of course, I’m usually a sound sleeper, but when you’re pregnant, you go to the bathroom a lot [laughs] So it was towards the end of my pregnancy, and when I would wake up, and then I’d catch him in our living room, which was, you know, a good walk from the bedroom. It was, it was… I would search for him, where could he be? And I would find him in the living room and… he was watching porn. And he would turn it off and pretend it didn’t happen. And so that was my first wake up call of what’s going on.

And then when I had my daughter, when she was about 10 months old, I was pregnant again with my son, Jacob, and we… he was again, there was some abuse, physical abuse, where he had grabbed me and I called the police. He ended up being charged for domestic abuse. It was in 2007, because, yeah, because my son was born in 2008. So my pastor at that time suggested that we move in with my – or I move in with my parents. He said, “Get away, it’s not a safe place,” you know, “go somewhere away from him.” And so that’s when I moved in with my parents. And then just over time he left… you know, I don’t want to go into the details. There was a season where he left that then he came back, and ended up actually weaselling himself back into my parents house, coming back. And again, that’s when it came up.

It was… my parents now would walk in, and he had the TV on and he was watching porn, and he’d get so embarrassed and turn it off. And then it became to a point where he would just, if I walked in… he ended up watching it in the playroom, which was not an area my parents would normally come up at, because it was like the second floor. But then I would walk in, he was watching it, and it became to a point where he was no longer ashamed. He was just like, “Uh huh. I’m watching it. It’s not sin.” And so I didn’t know, I guess, what to say to that. He had good arguments that when he was going to… Bible school, I guess they talked about sexually learning to do things, and it was okay to do things in marriage, and they had, he had taken a class on Song of Solomon. And so he was basically justifying it.

And then soon… well, yeah, after my son was born, then he was demanding it. He was saying, “We need to watch it, and you need to do things like I tell you to do.” And I was resisting watching it. I watched it a few times, but I couldn’t stomach it. I just… the Holy Spirit within me was just so much against it. So I refused to watch it, but then he was watching it without shame. And but… and then he was, because of his porn addiction, sexually abusing me. He’s just like wanting to do certain things that I didn’t want to do. He wanted, you know, certain positions, and forceful, and aggressive, and… which again, at that time I wouldn’t have labeled as sexual abuse. But it was. It was… very forceful, and demanding, and not listening to my… I guess my… I’m not wanting, you know, certain things and… so, but at that time I didn’t see any of that as abuse, I just thought I have a hard marriage, and I didn’t know what to do with it. So yeah.

You mentioned something about a rape in his past?

Yeah, he had mentioned… he had mentioned that as a young boy in Iran, they had… it was rape. That he had a relationship with older women and younger women, but he mentioned a specific situation where there was a street girl. I don’t know if she was a prostitute or if she was… she was being…. she was sex slavery or whatever her situation was, but she was pretty young, probably a teenager, and he was 18-20, because he got saved at 20. So he was… she was definitely much younger, and they kind of gang raped her. It was him and a group of friends, and… at that time when he told me I was, we were still dating, and so I couldn’t even, I had to have no sexual relationship, I couldn’t even fathom what he was saying, and… I… I didn’t realize the red flag of… a person, basically raping, what that, another human being, what that would mean.

Mhmm.

And then years later, I… other women approached me and talked to me, and I realized he’s done that to many, many people, even in our house churches. He would pray for people, he would turn off the light, and he would pray for people and they would fall. Like Benny Hin. He was… Benny Hin was Saeed’s hero. And later, so many girls at my church said he was fondling with them, and he was sexually molesting them. And when they were on the ground and everyone else’s eyes were shut, Saeed was the only one praying and moving around, and praying for people. And years later, people start coming forward and saying that he was sexually abusing them and had used that opportunity to molest them, and things like that.

Mhmm [sighs]

But it wasn’t until after I came out with the abuse that all these other people started coming to me about things that they had seen. I’d even had other pastors, house church pastors, come forward to me and said, “Now that you say it, like I’d noticed this and this and this, and I didn’t know if I was seeing it correctly, but Saeed was doing all this stuff with these girls,” and… so until the abuse and his sexual addiction became known to me, and I even understood how damaging, like you said, a porn addiction is, and how it goes hand in hand with abuse, because a woman is no longer viewed as a human being, that they’re objectified so… so usually porn addiction and abuse usually go hand in hand… I didn’t know any of that until my eyes were opened up to abuse.

And, so yeah, and the way they were opened up was when Saeed was in prison. So in 2012, as you said, Saeed was arrested. And at that time, right before his arrest, I remember crying out to the Lord because I could barely read my Bible. I could barely pray. The Bible was used to manipulate me, to control me –

Mmm.

– to call me a bad wife. So I couldn’t even read God’s word because anytime I opened it, it was condemning. It was oppressive. And so when Saeed was arrested, I start opening up the word of God and I start praying. But before his arrest, I remember crying out and asking God to help with the marriage. I thought, “this is going to be my life for the rest of my life. This is going to be my marriage for the rest of my life.” Saeed had been in a hotel room, before his arrest, with another woman. And I had called and she had picked up, and I became hysterical. And instead of apologizing, he said I’m crazy and I need to go see a doctor because I was hysterical that another woman –

Mmm.

– answered the phone in his hotel. And so at that time, I remember thinking, “Wow, like he’s saying I’m crazy for thinking that he cheated on me? They’re just sleeping in the same room?” And I thought, this is my… I didn’t even see a way out. I never thought divorce would be an option. So I remember crying out to the Lord, like, what’s going on? Lord is, you know, and for the first time, just pouring my heart out to the Lord. And then a few hours later, both this girl and my husband were arrested and put in the prison, or actually put under house arrest first, and then put in prison. And from that moment on, I just start praying and reading my Bible. And in the effort of trying to get my husband out, God was building my confidence in Him and growing my walk with Him.

And in 2015, I was speaking at a mega church in North Carolina, and the pastor’s name was David Chadwick, Pastor David Chadwick. And he… I just… Saeed had a smartphone inside of the prison, and he had gotten a smartphone about a year before his release and he was messaging me, he was seeing how famous he was getting –

Mmm.

– and I noticed he was getting access to my Amazon account, and he was watching things like “50 Shades of Gay”, which I clicked on and it was just… it was making me like sick to my stomach, the sexual content. And so I noticed he’s definitely watching porn again, so I mean, from Iranian prison, and then and it was seemed like there was a lot of more gay porn which made me wonder about what’s happening in prison. And then I finally, I didn’t share that part of the sexual stuff, because I was so ashamed. I didn’t share it with the pastor, but I shared with him, like, “I don’t understand. Saeed has a phone inside of the prison and he’s sending me really rude messages saying me I’m a whore, I’m a… I’m a Jezebel,” and so this pastor looked at me, and I shared everything of what has happened in our marriage, and I couldn’t make sense of why Saeed was putting me down when I was trying so hard to get him out. Later it made sense that Saeed was noticing that I was becoming confident, I wasn’t the same girl as I was before, where I would just shrivel up and submit to him.

So this pastor, after I mentioned everything, and I showed him some of the text messages, he looked at me. He said “Naghmeh, you know, I’m not just a pastor.” And I said, “No, I didn’t know that.” He said. “I’m a doctor.” I –

Naghmeh, Naghmeh I need you to, I need to interrupt for a moment because we’re out of time for this first show. But your story is very powerful, and we’re going to continue this interview with Nagmeh next week, so I encourage you to join us. And then we’ll talk to you next week.

Blazing Grace is a nonprofit international ministry for the sexually broken and the spouse. Please visit us at blazinggrace.org for information on Mike Genung’s books, groups, counseling, or to have Mike speak at your organization. You can e-mail us at email@blazinggrace.org or call our office in Chandler, AZ at 719-888-5144. Again, visit us at blazinggrace.org, e-mail us at email@blazinggrace.org, or call the office at 719-888-5144.

This program was sponsored by Blazing Grace Ministries.

Josh and Sydney Phipps, a married couple in their early thirties with 2 kids, both struggled with porn addiction and other forms of sexual sin at an early age and have persevered and healed. In this second of two episodes, Sydney tells her story. She got her first exposure to pornography at the age of 5 when she stumbled onto a porn video in her parent’s home, then later got into promiscuity. Sydney and Josh’s story show the redemption that is possible with God.

Josh and Sydney Phipps, a married couple in their early thirties with 2 kids, both struggled with porn addiction and other forms of sexual sin at an early age and have persevered and healed. In this first of two episodes, Josh tells his story, which includes growing up in a home with physical violence; at one point his mother’s life was in danger.